Minnesota Police Tase and Arrest Black Man for Sitting in a Public Space

“Put your hands behind your back, otherwise it’s going to get ugly”
LGF • Views: 39,109

This is wrong and just pisses me off, I can’t watch it again.

YouTube

St. Paul Cops Allegedly Taser and Arrest Black Male for Sitting in Public Space | Twin Cities Daily Planet

A video showing the arrest of a black St. Paul man for allegedly sitting in a public space and refusing to give up his name surfaced yesterday, Aug. 26 — only weeks after the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager in Missouri re-sparked the national debate on race and police profiling.

The video, shot by the man’s cellphone, shows his interaction with officers as he attempts to pick up his children from New Horizon Academy in downtown St. Paul. As the officers force the man to put his hands behind his back, he drops his phone and the video goes black, but the audio continues and we hear the man crying for help and proclaiming that his kids are watching. Both officers in the video are white.

“Why do I have to let you know who I am?” the man tells the first female officer at the beginning of the video. “I don’t have to let you know who I am if I haven’t broken any laws.”

From the following dialogue, it appears the police were called by a store clerk, who was upset over the man sitting in front of his store. The man in the video tells the officer he was sitting in front of the store for 10 minutes as he waited for his kids to get out of school, and that the area is public and he had a right to sit there.

Special H/T to Pam Spaulding (aka “Pam’s House Blend”) where I first saw this. If you aren’t following her on facebook you probably should be now that she’s stopped blogging.

Jump to bottom

312 comments
1 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 28, 2014 8:23:01am

I sent this to Carlos Miller at PINAC.

2 Tigger2  Aug 28, 2014 8:36:39am

I’m a 62 year old white guy and I think cops are arrogant fucking pricks now of days, I don’t trust them at all. and I have two cops in the family.

3 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:13:29am

Ah, local business person is a racist —or did the bench sitter smell or in anyway seem like a deterrent to those who might want to enter the store?

No, just black?

What a country we live in.

4 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 10:14:55am

re: #3 FemNaziBitch

Ah, local business person is a racist —or did the bench sitter smell or in anyway seem like a deterrent to those who might want to enter the store?

No, just black?

What a country we live in.

HURR HURR TEH LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER IS TEH JRRB CREATOR!!!! WHAT WAS THAT [N-WORD] DOING??? WHY WASN’T HE AT WORK??? JUST TAKIN ARE TAXPAYER MONEYS FOR TEH FOOD STAMPS & WELFARES!!!!!

5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 28, 2014 10:15:23am

Wow. I watched it and just can’t get over it. That’s some bullshit plain and simple. I hope he sues the PD involved into oblivion.

6 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 10:16:59am

[deleted]

7 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:17:59am

Where can I donate to get this man an attorney to sue these cops?

8 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Aug 28, 2014 10:18:22am

It’s only a matter of time before those cops are anointed as heroes by the Zimmerman and Wilson groupies.

I almost wish I were a lawyer so I could take that guy’s case pro bono.

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 28, 2014 10:19:05am

That story, and others here, just in the past week.

10 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:19:14am

re: #8 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

It’s only a matter of time before those cops are anointed as heroes by the Zimmerman and Wilson groupies.

I almost wish I were a lawyer so I could take that guy’s case pro bono.

Me too. If I were an attorney, I’d be finding out who this man was so I could call him and offer to take his case.

11 rhuarc  Aug 28, 2014 10:20:35am

Where is a good guy with a gun when you need one?

12 Charles Johnson  Aug 28, 2014 10:21:27am

BTW, Randall - I edited the post to go to the original story at Twin Cities Daily Planet because Raw Story doesn’t like people to link to their articles — they’ve sent me some angry email because of people using them as a source for LGF Pages. So, since all they do with these “articles” is rewrite someone else’s work, I’d prefer it if people would click through to their source and use that for the post instead.

13 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:21:41am

I am beginning to think maybe NWA was too generous with fuck the police. Really, that was just so hard to watch. And sad part is I know damn well that people will justify the actions of the police,

14 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 10:21:51am

With more and more people with smart phones and video capturing law enforcement engaging in excessive force, engaging in unlawful searches and seizures, and other actions that are not appropriate for the situation, you might think that we’ve reached a tipping point with law enforcement rules, policies, and procedures.

We’re going to hear a lot more about these kinds of events, because people will begin coming forward with their own tales of racial profiling and excessive force.

These are law enforcement officers who have broken their oath and social compact with the public. But far too many of these instances are ignored by the top officials in departments, let alone the politicians who demand law and order (because they’re usually not the ones who are regularly stopped and harassed for doing nothing more than walking or minding their own business on public property). Police have enticements to make arrests and write tickets because it makes them, their squads, precincts, and departments look good. But when you start basing your policies on how much revenue comes into the town’s coffers (like Ferguson where more than $2m a year is the result of warrants and tickets from the FPD), and there’s a racial disparity in who’s being ticketed, something is seriously wrong and just waving it away as being law and order isn’t going to cut it.

It’s time that law enforcement take policing its own seriously. The NYPD does a pretty good job policing corruption. But it’s record on excessive force is awful. It’s better than it has been but that isn’t saying much. And the NYPD is far better trained and managed than most police departments. There’s much more scrutiny because of the media presence, the oversight, and focus on security. We need a police force that is competent, fair, and puts the community first. We know that policing is tough, and that there are people out there who will do harm to themselves and others without a thought and the police need to have latitude to deal with these threats should they turn to deadly force.

At the same time, we need to hold the same police accountable when they use deadly force when it is not warranted. The Supreme Court has given the police wide latitude in this regard, but some departments take this even further, and some officers see them as a justice system all to themselves (and for this I refer to those instances where officers have been accused of police brutality, only to find out that they’ve got long records of being accused of brutality that raises questions as to why they’re still employed).

15 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:22:44am

Another sad chapter in “You can always trust a policeman” in America.

It’s time we put the law and order into the law and order.

I hope people of all political backgrounds and of all colors and strata in America keep pounding on this.

We were told after 9-11 that police are heroes. If you want to keep that name start to fucking act like it.

And good cops…time for you to start kicking some ass in your departments. A clean-out is needed!

16 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:23:13am

The assumption of guilt.

The need to, basically prove that cops have the biggest dicks (even the female cops) are always right.

WHAT RACISM?

17 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:23:46am

re: #14 lawhawk

With more and more people with smart phones and video capturing law enforcement engaging in excessive force, engaging in unlawful searches and seizures, and other actions that are not appropriate for the situation, you might think that we’ve reached a tipping point with law enforcement rules, policies, and procedures.

We’re going to hear a lot more about these kinds of events, because people will begin coming forward with their own tales of racial profiling and excessive force.

These are law enforcement officers who have broken their oath and social compact with the public. But far too many of these instances are ignored by the top officials in departments, let alone the politicians who demand law and order (because they’re usually not the ones who are regularly stopped and harassed for doing nothing more than walking or minding their own business on public property). Police have enticements to make arrests and write tickets because it makes them, their squads, precincts, and departments look good. But when you start basing your policies on how much revenue comes into the town’s coffers (like Ferguson where more than $2m a year is the result of warrants and tickets from the FPD), and there’s a racial disparity in who’s being ticketed, something is seriously wrong and just waving it away as being law and order isn’t going to cut it.

It’s time that law enforcement take policing its own seriously. The NYPD does a pretty good job policing corruption. But it’s record on excessive force is awful. It’s better than it has been but that isn’t saying much. And the NYPD is far better trained and managed than most police departments. There’s much more scrutiny because of the media presence, the oversight, and focus on security. We need a police force that is competent, fair, and puts the community first. We know that policing is tough, and that there are people out there who will do harm to themselves and others without a thought and the police need to have latitude to deal with these threats should they turn to deadly force.

At the same time, we need to hold the same police accountable when they use deadly force when it is not warranted. The Supreme Court has given the police wide latitude in this regard, but some departments take this even further, and some officers see them as a justice system all to themselves (and for this I refer to those instances where officers have been accused of police brutality, only to find out that they’ve got long records of being accused of brutality that raises questions as to why they’re still employed).

YES, THIS—ALL OF THIS.

18 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:24:05am

He should have carried a gun and told them he was an open carry advocate. That would have calmed things right down.
///

19 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:24:14am

re: #16 FemNaziBitch

The assumption of guilt.

The need to, basically prove that cops have the biggest dicks (even the female cops) are always right.

WHAT RACISM?

It was just so tough to listen to. The man was practically if not in tears. I felt embarrassed to be an American watching this.

20 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Aug 28, 2014 10:24:37am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

BTW, Randall - I edited the post to go to the original story at Twin Cities Daily Planet because Raw Story doesn’t like people to link to their articles — they’ve sent me some angry email because of people using them as a source for LGF Pages. So, since all they do with these “articles” is rewrite someone else’s work, I’d prefer it if people would click through to their source and use that for the post instead.

It boggles my mind that RawStory does this, especially given their model of rewriting other people’s stuff. Linking to articles is like the basis of the Web. SMH

21 Charles Johnson  Aug 28, 2014 10:24:45am
22 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:26:29am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Pretty impressive for an irrelevant guy who has a little web site no one pays any attention too. Good job.

23 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 10:26:37am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

24 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 10:26:38am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

IRRELEVANT!!!

25 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 10:26:56am

[stalker font]

26 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:27:54am

I used to work at a free standing store. When teenagers would try to congregate outside or in the parking lot a manager would tell them to disperse.

Groups of teenagers scare people. It was not, technically, a public place.

Now, if it had been one or two sitting on bench —I don’t think the manager would have done that.

It’s all about body language and perception of safety.

This area seemed to be mall (from what I could see of the video). In which case, yes the common area is a common area.

People bench sit all day —old people mostly. They need something to do and it’s good for them to be out and about. People sit for an hour and wait for a friend who is late—rather than sit in their car. People will spend their lunch our doing such things in bad weather.

Did the guy cat call a passing group of women? Or do anything that would make someone feel unsafe?

27 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:27:56am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Fistbump, good job, Mr. Irrelevant. Seriously though, thank you again for the amazing coverage you’ve done not only on the Brown case but stories like this and others. A lot of people are in denial about racism still being a problem in this country.

28 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:29:10am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

It was just so tough to listen to. The man was practically if not in tears. I felt embarrassed to be an American watching this.

When kids are involved…I mean the fear the kids would have at the prospect of being left at the mall unable to communicate with their other parent. Can you imagine the feeling of helplessness?

This is the basis of PTSD.

29 Minor_L  Aug 28, 2014 10:29:34am

I’m starting to feel like I shouldn’t call the police for anything.

30 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:30:27am

re: #28 FemNaziBitch

When kids are involved…I mean the fear the kids would have at the prospect of being left at the mall unable to communicate with their other parent. Can you imagine the feeling of helplessness?

This is the basis of PTSD.

Yep good point. And I expect nothing will come of this from the Minnesota police. No apology. No nothing.

31 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:30:43am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Graphics seem to be the winners.

32 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 10:31:41am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

A lot of people are in denial about racism still being a problem in this country.

33 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:31:46am

re: #30 HappyWarrior

Yep good point. And I expect nothing will come of this from the Minnesota police. No apology. No nothing.

The police are actually, in reality, really putting the kids in danger.

34 Bulworth  Aug 28, 2014 10:34:22am

LGF is irrelevant.

Here, let me set up a special Twitter account to stalk and troll people who post there….

/

35 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 10:34:26am

Ok, here’s the thing. He was inside of a building of some sort. Even though you can sit in public areas, the police or landlords can legally tell you to leave or move along, if you don’t, then you’re trespassing. He should have just told the cops that he was waiting for his kids instead of getting into that whole speech about how he knows his rights blah blah. He has the right to remain silent. He should use that right. Not that I think he shouldn’t flex his rights. Just that talking to the police does no good at all. Answering police questions does no good. Trying to reason with them does no good. Informing them of the law, that they clearly don’t know, does no good. The police are not WORTH talking to. When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent. If I need something (like medicine, for instance) I’ll inform them but that’s it, I’m not getting into a deep philosophical conversation with a cop because their default mindset is that they are not fallible, which is stupid. Either they take the hint and F-off back where they came from or they decide to arrest me for a crime. If I’m at the jail, I hope they like me staring at them until I get my lawyer.

36 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:35:08am

9% of my followers are in Wash D.C.

What does ‘impression’ mean?

37 Randall Gross  Aug 28, 2014 10:35:19am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

BTW, Randall - I edited the post to go to the original story at Twin Cities Daily Planet because Raw Story doesn’t like people to link to their articles — they’ve sent me some angry email because of people using them as a source for LGF Pages. So, since all they do with these “articles” is rewrite someone else’s work, I’d prefer it if people would click through to their source and use that for the post instead.

Np, I forgot that or would have sought another source myself. Thanks for the edit.

38 Interesting Times  Aug 28, 2014 10:35:49am

re: #32 jaunte

The smug, douchey expression adds an exquisite bouquet to the BS being shoveled.

39 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 10:36:06am

re: #34 Bulworth

LGF is irrelevant.

Here, let me set up a special Twitter account to stalk and troll people who post there….

/

You spelled LFG wrong :)

40 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:36:21am

I’ve got a Dim Jim defender

41 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:37:13am

I’m pissed the police didn’t seem to take the children’s well-being in to consideration.

Did they talk with a teacher to make sure the kids would be taken care of?

42 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:37:32am

re: #32 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yeah he and everyone else at his network are Exhibit-A for what I am talking about but it’s not surprising given that their boss, Mr. Ailes was an employee for some of the biggest race baiting presidential campaigns.

43 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 10:37:45am

re: #38 Interesting Times

The smug, douchey expression adds an exquisite bouquet to the BS being shoveled.

Capped with the sweet meringue of “Talking Points is speaking in the third person so this isn’t really just me spitballing.”

44 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 28, 2014 10:38:26am

re: #26 FemNaziBitch

when I was younger I hung out with the so-called “bad” crowd. Our town mayor (a county Deputy Sheriff) convinced the town that our town would become like the “streets of L.A.” so they hired off duty cops to be the town police. Whenever there were more than 2 of us “bad” kids hanging out they would harass us and tell us to “keep moving”.

There was a corner across from the school that we used to hang out on at lunch time, smoke cigarettes, shoot the shit etc. Well there were about 10 or so of us hanging out. the cops pull up and start giving us a hard time. One of my friends basically said “what’s the problem, we aren’t doing anything illegal” and the cop got out of his car and reached for his gun.

Meanwhile the ones actually doing bad shit were….the preppies.

45 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 10:38:29am

Stupidest Gun-Fucking Meme You Will See All Day:

46 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:39:09am

re: #40 Kragar

I’ve got a Dim Jim defender

[Embedded content]

Or posting pictures of another kid that looks similar to Brown and holding a gun.

47 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 10:39:35am

That has to be a still from some movie because nobody fires guns like that in real life.

48 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 10:39:42am

re: #32 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Really? Talking Points does not believe in white privilege?
Own it O’Reilly!

49 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 10:39:49am

re: #35 Sc0rp

Greetings, hatchling.

k, here’s the thing. He was inside of a building of some sort. Even though you can sit in public areas, the police or landlords can legally tell you to leave or move along, if you don’t, then you’re trespassing.

In a public area, he is a part of the public and any rules, posted or not, need to be enforced the same for everyone.

He should have just told the cops that he was waiting for his kids instead of getting into that whole speech about how he knows his rights blah blah. He has the right to remain silent. He should use that right. Not that I think he shouldn’t flex his rights. Just that talking to the police does no good at all. Answering police questions does no good. Trying to reason with them does no good. Informing them of the law, that they clearly don’t know, does no good. The police are not WORTH talking to. When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent. If I need something (like medicine, for instance) I’ll inform them but that’s it, I’m not getting into a deep philosophical conversation with a cop because their default mindset is that they are not fallible, which is stupid. Either they take the hint and F-off back where they came from or they decide to arrest me for a crime. If I’m at the jail, I hope they like me staring at them until I get my lawyer.

I don’t think he could have done anything differently and been assured of a different result. You could have ended up just like him with your plan of action, assuming you were also black.

50 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:40:08am

re: #46 ObserverArt

Or posting pictures of another kid that looks similar to Brown and holding a gun.

Or claiming to have Brown’s juvy files.

51 iossarian  Aug 28, 2014 10:40:30am

re: #45 Pie-onist Overlord

Stupidest Gun-Fucking Meme You Will See All Day:

[Embedded content]

That’s the approved stance for blowing away all the bad guys and all the good guys at the same time.

52 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 10:40:35am

re: #48 blueraven

Really? Talking Points does not believe in white privilege?
Own it O’Reilly!

“Last night on ‘The Factor,’ Megyn Kelly and I debated the concept of white privilege whereby some believe that if you are Caucasian you have inherent advantages in America. ‘Talking Points’ does not, does not believe in white privilege. However, there is no question that African-Americans have a much harder time succeeding in our society than whites do.”
mediaite.com

53 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:40:43am

re: #45 Pie-onist Overlord

Stupidest Gun-Fucking Meme You Will See All Day:

[Embedded content]

The day is still young. I’m sure we’ll see dumber

54 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 10:40:49am

re: #47 Pie-onist Overlord

I was going to say the same thing. Probably an actress or model that, in real life, despises gun fetishists.

55 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 10:41:13am

re: #35 Sc0rp

When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent.

Wow such white very privilege

56 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:41:23am

re: #47 Pie-onist Overlord

That has to be a still from some movie because nobody fires guns like that in real life.

Its from the Sarah Conner Chronicles. The girl was a Terminator sent back to be a bodyguard for John Connor

57 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:41:45am

re: #54 Franklin

I was going to say the same thing. Probably an actress or model that, in real life, despises gun fetishists.

Its Summer Glau.

58 iossarian  Aug 28, 2014 10:42:22am

Speaking of gun stupidity, did the Arizona shooting range fiasco with the 9-year old killing her instructor get posted here?

59 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:42:51am

re: #49 wrenchwench

Greetings, hatchling.

In a public area, he is a part of the public and any rules, posted or not, need to be enforced the same for everyone.

I don’t think he could have done anything differently and been assured of a different result. You could have ended up just like him with your plan of action, assuming you were also black.

The bold part is key. Hopefully the new member Sc0rp touches that part of the deal.

60 iossarian  Aug 28, 2014 10:42:59am

re: #55 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow such white very privilege

I was going to say, that’s a one-way ticket to the morgue unless you’re melanin-challenged.

61 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 10:43:12am

re: #58 iossarian

Speaking of gun stupidity, did the Arizona shooting range fiasco with the 9-year old killing her instructor get posted here?

Discussed in previous thread. Not Paged, afaik.

62 iossarian  Aug 28, 2014 10:43:58am

re: #61 wrenchwench

Discussed in previous thread. Not Paged, afaik.

Not worth a page - another day dawns in America and another gun idiot dies.

63 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 10:45:07am

re: #49 wrenchwench

I don’t think he could have done anything differently and been assured of a different result. You could have ended up just like him with your plan of action, assuming you were also black.

That’s why I say that there’s no point in talking with the police. All talking does is give the state fuel to get a conviction and help get the cop’s heart up to violate your rights because now you’re challenging him and in his mind he is infallible. If a police officer has made up his mind to arrest you for something, that’s it, you’re getting arrested and it doesn’t matter what the law actually says.

64 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:45:08am

re: #55 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow such white very privilege

Acting just like that while black or with dark skin from other nationalities can lead to problems. I hope folks understand that. If not, they have no understanding at all.

65 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 10:45:09am

re: #57 Kragar

Its Summer Glau.

Ahhh, I take it back then. A cursory google search appears to refute my claim.

66 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:45:10am

I need a happy picture right now

67 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 10:47:30am

re: #63 Sc0rp

That’s why I say that there’s no point in talking with the police. All talking does is give the state fuel to get a conviction and help get the cop’s heart up to violate your rights because now you’re challenging him and in his mind he is infallible. If a police officer has made up his mind to arrest you for something, that’s it, you’re getting arrested and it doesn’t matter what the law actually says.

Are you making excuses for that type of policing? It sure seems like it. And as has been pointed out, depending of your skin color and maybe some other traits (size, hair, clothing) that type of non-response is really going to set them off.

For some folks, it is lose-lose no matter what. Again…I hope you understand, but right now…

68 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 10:47:31am

AND why do they need to know his name?

If they just need him to move along?

69 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 10:47:49am

re: #35 Sc0rp

Ok, here’s the thing. He was inside of a building of some sort. Even though you can sit in public areas, the police or landlords can legally tell you to leave or move along, if you don’t, then you’re trespassing. He should have just told the cops that he was waiting for his kids instead of getting into that whole speech about how he knows his rights blah blah. He has the right to remain silent. He should use that right. Not that I think he shouldn’t flex his rights. Just that talking to the police does no good at all. Answering police questions does no good. Trying to reason with them does no good. Informing them of the law, that they clearly don’t know, does no good. The police are not WORTH talking to. When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent. If I need something (like medicine, for instance) I’ll inform them but that’s it, I’m not getting into a deep philosophical conversation with a cop because their default mindset is that they are not fallible, which is stupid. Either they take the hint and F-off back where they came from or they decide to arrest me for a crime. If I’m at the jail, I hope they like me staring at them until I get my lawyer.

So basically you think the guy should have said…yessa massa?

70 BeachDem  Aug 28, 2014 10:47:59am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

BTW, Randall - I edited the post to go to the original story at Twin Cities Daily Planet because Raw Story doesn’t like people to link to their articles — they’ve sent me some angry email because of people using them as a source for LGF Pages. So, since all they do with these “articles” is rewrite someone else’s work, I’d prefer it if people would click through to their source and use that for the post instead.

Thanks for mentioning this, Charles. I’m prone to linking to Raw Story in comments—usually when I’m being too lazy to click through to the source article. Won’t do it anymore!

71 Khal Wimpo  Aug 28, 2014 10:48:18am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

Interesting. Twitter seems to be one of the last platforms where the whole Echo Chamber effect hasn’t yet completely taken hold. Check out this excellent piece on the self-segregation taking place on social media in the wake of the Ferguson shooting.

http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2014/08/27/self-segregation-on-social-networks-and-the-implications-for-the-ferguson-mo-story/

Nut grafs:

Twitter’s reach has grown since 2012, and the power of “black twitter”, which Soraya Nadia McDonald describes as both “cultural force” and social network, to challenge racist narratives has grown. Outrage on Twitter over a book deal for a juror who acquitted George Zimmerman led to the deal being withdrawn. Noting the power of outraged channeled through a hashtag, some African American Twitter users began posting contrasting photos of themselves under the tag #iftheygunnedmedown, suggesting that media were emphasizing the narrative of Michael Brown as “thug”, by using a photo in which Brown is displaying a peace sign (which many have read as a gang sign), rather than other photos in which Brown looks young and entirely unthreatening. The hashtag allowed Twitter users to participate in the dialog about Ferguson in cases where they had nothing to share about the situation on the ground by participating in a conversation about larger issues of structural racism in American media.

While events in Ferguson received widespread attention on Twitter, some observers saw very different behavior on their Facebook feeds.

72 Ace-o-aces  Aug 28, 2014 10:48:47am

Don’t worry, I’m sure AWARD WINNIN JOURNALAMIMST CHARLES C. JOHNSON is looking into this guy’s juvie record as we speak!

73 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 10:49:47am

This goes to what I was mentioning earlier - revenue-based policing.

74 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 10:49:47am

re: #72 Ace-o-aces

Don’t worry, I’m sure AWARD WINNIN JOURNALAMIMST CHARLES C. JOHNSON is looking into this guy’s juvie record as we speak!

Jim Hoft is looking at his voting patterns.

75 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 10:50:10am

From the linked article at the top:

A video showing the arrest of a black St. Paul man for allegedly sitting in a public space and refusing to give up his name surfaced yesterday, Aug. 26 — only weeks after the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager in Missouri re-sparked the national debate on race and police profiling.

That’s the thing, this incident in St. Paul would not be spread far and wide if the topic were not already hot because of the late Mike Brown.

A tiny phrase from a Page I posted weeks ago sticks in my head still:

“I never told no one because no one cares.”

Those are the words of a homeless man who was beaten more than once by some kids who later killed two of the homeless man’s homeless friends.

76 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 10:53:32am
77 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 10:55:08am

re: #35 Sc0rp

Ok, here’s the thing. He was inside of a building of some sort. Even though you can sit in public areas, the police or landlords can legally tell you to leave or move along, if you don’t, then you’re trespassing. He should have just told the cops that he was waiting for his kids instead of getting into that whole speech about how he knows his rights blah blah. He has the right to remain silent. He should use that right. Not that I think he shouldn’t flex his rights. Just that talking to the police does no good at all. Answering police questions does no good. Trying to reason with them does no good. Informing them of the law, that they clearly don’t know, does no good. The police are not WORTH talking to. When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent. If I need something (like medicine, for instance) I’ll inform them but that’s it, I’m not getting into a deep philosophical conversation with a cop because their default mindset is that they are not fallible, which is stupid. Either they take the hint and F-off back where they came from or they decide to arrest me for a crime. If I’m at the jail, I hope they like me staring at them until I get my lawyer.

Are you black? If so, can you please tell me how many times you’ve found this to be an effective method for dealing with the police?

By “effective” I mean instances where you—as a black man having been approached & questioned by police—simply stared at them silently, only speaking to ask for medications or to deny consent, avoided getting beat down, tased, arrested, charged with a crime, etc.

78 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 10:55:36am

How depressing is it that my first thought upon reading this story was, “Thank God they didn’t shoot him”?

It’s like the old morbid pilot joke “Any landing you can walk away from is a good one” but applied to cops. Any interaction you can (eventually) walk away from…

79 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 10:58:12am

re: #71 Khal Wimpo

Twitter seems to be one of the last platforms where the whole Echo Chamber effect hasn’t yet completely taken hold.

Twitter’s architecture makes it extremely difficult to weed out dissenting voices, unless all you do is read your feed of selected accounts. The moment you venture out into the wider world of trends and hashtags, everyone gets a say.

80 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 10:58:35am

re: #59 ObserverArt

Well, I don’t want to get into my ethnicity but, I’m a minority and have been stopped by the police several times when I was young. In one incident I was stopped (by a black cop) while on my way to get groceries (You know, because I was hungry). Cop asked me what I was doing. I told him that I was going to get something to eat. So, for some reason he didn’t like that and got on his radio and called in that he had a belligerent person on his hands, probably because I have a VERY deep voice, so to most men, it sounds like I’m talking down to them. Anyhow, his partner (A white cop) showed up and they tried to get a rise out of me at that point, I just stared at them. Then his partner suddenly threatened to bash my skull in unless I give him some names of some drug boys. I just stared at him and told him to go ahead and do it then because I don’t know any drug boys and I DON’T have time for his BS. So, they called in a background check on me and WHOOPS! I have a crystal clear criminal record with not even a citation for jaywalking. So the partner basically said ‘you’re free to go’ and I went and got my groceries. On my way back, the first cop was still sitting there and he was acting all apologetic and sheepish about what happened. I told him that the damage was done, that he and his partner ruined my day and that I’d prefer to go home that talk to a person that made an enemy of me. The next day, I tried to report them to their lieutenant but all he did is declare that I was lying and I knew these drug dealers that I don’t know. From that point on, I categorize police officers as non-people that aren’t worth my breath to try and reason with.

81 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:00:38am

re: #69 blueraven

I think he should have either moved on or explained that he was waiting for his kids as directly as possible. All that talk does no good because a police officer is conditioned to believe that he is always right.

82 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 11:02:30am

re: #80 Sc0rp

Well, I don’t want to get into my ethnicity but, I’m a minority and have been stopped by the police several times when I was young. In one incident I was stopped (by a black cop) while on my way to get groceries (You know, because I was hungry). Cop asked me what I was doing. I told him that I was going to get something to eat. So, for some reason he didn’t like that and got on his radio and called in that he had a belligerent person on his hands, probably because I have a VERY deep voice, so to most men, it sounds like I’m talking down to them. Anyhow, his partner (A white cop) showed up and they tried to get a rise out of me at that point, I just stared at them. Then his partner suddenly threatened to bash my skull in unless I give him some names of some drug boys. I just stared at him and told him to go ahead and do it then because I don’t know any drug boys and I DON’T have time for his BS. So, they called in a background check on me and WHOOPS! I have a crystal clear criminal record with not even a citation for jaywalking. So the partner basically said ‘you’re free to go’ and I went and got my groceries. On my way back, the first cop was still sitting there and he was acting all apologetic and sheepish about what happened. I told him that the damage was done, that he and his partner ruined my day and that I’d prefer to go home that talk to a person that made an enemy of me. The next day, I tried to report them to their lieutenant but all he did is declare that I was lying and I knew these drug dealers that I don’t know. From that point on, I categorize police officers as non-people that aren’t worth my breath to try and reason with.

Thanks for the response.

83 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:03:44am

re: #81 Sc0rp

I think he should have either moved on or explained that he was waiting for his kids as directly as possible. All that talk does no good because a police officer is conditioned to believe that he is always right.

How can things be changed? Giving the cops the silent treatment is not going to change things. I respect your experiences, but I don’t think relating them is going to help anyone else. The cops must be regarded as human, because only humans can be held accountable and can change their behavior.

Saying this man could have had better results if he had only done such-and-such is victim-blaming.

84 alpuz  Aug 28, 2014 11:04:20am

For those that have questioned where he was, I believe it’s the skyway in Minneapolis.

en.wikipedia.org

skywaymyway.com

Rochester has one too. It gets pretty cold up in these parts around January.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:04:30am

so many possible captions for this…(the Ride of the Century debacle in StL comes immediately to mind…)

86 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:05:41am

re: #80 Sc0rp

Judging by that anecdote, you’re not black.

re: #81 Sc0rp

Really? Do you really imagine that a black man the police have decided they’re going to question can simply give a short answer and move on freely?

87 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:05:49am

re: #83 wrenchwench

How can things be changed? Giving the cops the silent treatment is not going to change things. I respect your experiences, but I don’t think relating them is going to help anyone else. The cops must be regarded as human, because only humans can be held accountable and can change their behavior.

Saying this man could have had better results if he had only done such-and-such is victim-blaming.

^^this^^

88 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 11:06:18am

re: #81 Sc0rp

I think he should have either moved on or explained that he was waiting for his kids as directly as possible. All that talk does no good because a police officer is conditioned to believe that he is always right.

If the Founding Fathers used that kind of logic we would all be singing God Save The Queen.

89 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:08:11am

re: #77 CuriousLurker

can you please tell me how many times you’ve found this to be an effective method for dealing with the police?

Works every time with me. The police get bored and don’t know what to do when they are faced with a silent person staring at them. They need to come up with some sort of excuse to arrest you. If you’re arguing, they can call that disorderly conduct or even obstruction of justice and arrest you. If you’re sitting there staring at them, they might try to figure out an excuse, but you’re making it really hard for them. You should try it out.

Have you ever heard the saying that, if you see a dog, don’t run because you’ll trigger its predator instinct? Works the same way with people. If the cops are talking to you, they are trying to get some momentum going to work up the nerve to arrest you or gather evidence to arrest you. You have a right to remain silent. Inform them of this and keep your moth shut.

90 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 11:09:56am

re: #88 blueraven

If the Founding Fathers used that kind of logic we would all be singing God Save The Queen.

The civil rights act would not be a thing.
Women wouldn’t be able to vote.
etc…
Good grief man.

91 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:10:09am

re: #83 wrenchwench

How can things be changed? Giving the cops the silent treatment is not going to change things.

it doesn’t hurt your case if you get arrested while talking can hurt your case.

92 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 28, 2014 11:10:29am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I clicked your link and it shows my numbers. LOL a far less impressive number. Interesting feature. Do you use the “cards” feature?

93 Bulworth  Aug 28, 2014 11:10:37am

re:
#76

Where Was The Anti-Government Right In Ferguson?

Posting racist comments while donating to the policeman’s “defense” fund.

94 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:11:25am

re: #89 Sc0rp

Works every time with me. The police get bored and don’t know what to do when they are faced with a silent person staring at them. They need to come up with some sort of excuse to arrest you. If you’re arguing, they can call that disorderly conduct or even obstruction of justice and arrest you. If you’re sitting there staring at them, they might try to figure out an excuse, but you’re making it really hard for them. You should try it out.

Have you ever heard the saying that, if you see a dog, don’t run because you’ll trigger its predator instinct? Works the same way with people. If the cops are talking to you, they are trying to get some momentum going to work up the nerve to arrest you or gather evidence to arrest you. You have a right to remain silent. Inform them of this and keep your moth shut.

I’m calling bullshit. “The police don’t know what to do with a silent person”?

What fucking nonsense.

95 TedStriker  Aug 28, 2014 11:12:29am

re: #94 Kragar

I’m calling bullshit. “The police don’t know what to do with a silent person”?

What fucking nonsense.

My Spidey Sense is tingling on this one…

96 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:12:41am

re: #91 Sc0rp

it doesn’t hurt your case if you get arrested while talking can hurt your case.

Are you looking at this entirely as a personal thing, rather than a problem that exists for millions in this country? Do you only think of solving it for one, rather than for everyone?

97 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:12:44am

re: #80 Sc0rp

[…] From that point on, I categorize police officers as non-people that aren’t worth my breath to try and reason with.

BTW, that’s exactly the same mindset of police who harass people simply for being minorities, living in the wrong part of town, etc. You’re basically saying they treated you as a non-person based on some bigoted assumptions they made about you, so you’re going to be just like them.

Brilliant. //

98 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 28, 2014 11:13:30am

re: #94 Kragar

Yeah, being silent they can try to get you for obstruction or some other trumped up charge as well.

99 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 11:14:07am

‘Dehumanizing stares,’ body language prompted arrest of Florida teen feeding puppy

Police claim Tremaine McMillian was threatening and resisting officers after he was asked where his mother was. Cops subdued McMillian in a severe beatdown that the teen’s mother caught on camera.

100 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 11:14:12am

Afternoon Lizardim. I’m a bit disappointed in Minnesota; between the violent arrest of the community organizer in Minneapolis and this, it’s not looking good for a state that prides itself on tolerance and restraint. So much for “Minnesota Nice”, eh? How go things among the lizardfolk?

101 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:14:13am

re: #89 Sc0rp

Works every time with me. The police get bored and don’t know what to do when they are faced with a silent person staring at them. They need to come up with some sort of excuse to arrest you. If you’re arguing, they can call that disorderly conduct or even obstruction of justice and arrest you. If you’re sitting there staring at them, they might try to figure out an excuse, but you’re making it really hard for them. You should try it out.

Have you ever heard the saying that, if you see a dog, don’t run because you’ll trigger its predator instinct? Works the same way with people. If the cops are talking to you, they are trying to get some momentum going to work up the nerve to arrest you or gather evidence to arrest you. You have a right to remain silent. Inform them of this and keep your moth shut.

If there are no other witnesses nearby, your staring technique is no guarantee you’ll not be arrested.
And many times, it doesn’t even matter if there are witnesses.
BTW, in just about every place I’ve been, your technique would very easily be categorized by police as interfering with a police investigation.

102 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:14:53am

re: #89 Sc0rp

Works every time with me. The police get bored and don’t know what to do when they are faced with a silent person staring at them. They need to come up with some sort of excuse to arrest you. If you’re arguing, they can call that disorderly conduct or even obstruction of justice and arrest you. If you’re sitting there staring at them, they might try to figure out an excuse, but you’re making it really hard for them. You should try it out.

Have you ever heard the saying that, if you see a dog, don’t run because you’ll trigger its predator instinct? Works the same way with people. If the cops are talking to you, they are trying to get some momentum going to work up the nerve to arrest you or gather evidence to arrest you. You have a right to remain silent. Inform them of this and keep your moth shut.

Then you’re definitely not black.

103 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 28, 2014 11:15:01am

re: #99 jaunte

‘Dehumanizing stares,’ body language prompted arrest of Florida teen feeding puppy

oh look, he stared at the cops.

104 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 11:15:39am

re: #103 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

It was “dehumanizing”

105 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:15:54am

re: #98 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah, being silent they can try to get you for obstruction or some other trumped up charge as well.

“Subject refused to respond to questioning and was acting suspiciously”

106 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 11:15:54am

re: #89 Sc0rp

The police get bored and don’t know what to do when they are faced with a silent person staring at them.

Sure they do.

Being silent while White=leave him alone, he is exercising his constitutional rights

Being silent while Black=beat the silence right out of him, extra kicks for looking at them all uppity

107 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:16:10am

re: #91 Sc0rp

it doesn’t hurt your case if you get arrested while talking can hurt your case.

‘Course, getting the hell beaten out of you will hurt YOU; even money the silent treatment will stimulate THAT>

108 Lidane  Aug 28, 2014 11:16:14am

re: #81 Sc0rp

I think he should have either moved on or explained that he was waiting for his kids as directly as possible.

Yeah, you’re definitely not a minority in this country.

Good luck trying that if you’re brown or black.

109 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:17:20am

If your argument is “Well, I’ve never had a problem so I don’t see why anyone else does”, then you don’t have a fucking argument.

110 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 11:17:36am

re: #89 Sc0rp

Police tasered a deaf man into unconsciousness because he was trying to sign.

Cops in California needlessly tasered a deaf man to the ground and then beat him into unconsciousness, a new lawsuit claims.

Jonathan Meister alleges officers discharged the electric charge into his body after mistaking his attempts to communicate via sign language as aggressive hand signals.

He claims four cops arrived at his friend’s house in Hawthorne the day before Valentine’s Day in 2013 after receiving reports of a burglary.

Meister “was removing his own property from the backyard of a friend’s home, with the friend’s consent” when he was initially confronted by two cops, according to the lawsuit.

111 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:17:38am

Who was the kid who was shot and killed by police recently because he didn’t respond to their questions/commands…because he was wearing earphones and DID NOT HEAR them….

He should have just stopped and stared at them. ///////

112 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:18:53am

re: #86 CuriousLurker

Judging by that anecdote, you’re not black.

Ok, if that’s what you want to believe. Like I said, I don’t want to get into my race.

Do you really imagine that a black man the police have decided they’re going to question can simply give a short answer and move on freely?

There’s a few reasons it works that way.

1) If the police just want to arrest you, they’d do it. They don’t need to ask questions or anything like that. When you communicate with them, they are feeling you out to see if they should try violating your rights. Cops hate the silent treatment because you are effectively not letting them feel you out. They can’t build any psychological momentum off of your indifference.

2) Talking does nothing to help you if you get arrested. Anything you say can be used against you, not to help you. You can’t talk your way out of an arrest, but talking can get you arrested and be used against you in a court of law. My uncle was recently falsely arrested without a warrant (and almost died because the police didn’t get his medicine after he informed them) Because he didn’t talk to them and the claimant never showed up to testify in court, the judge dismissed all charges and now my uncle is looking to sue the department. If he flapped his yap all day, then they would have been able to charge him with some BS charge like disorderly conduct and that charge would stick.

113 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:19:11am

re: #99 jaunte

‘Dehumanizing stares,’ body language prompted arrest of Florida teen feeding puppy

Oh look. He’s black. And 14 years old.

Who was dehumanized again?

114 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 11:19:35am

re: #110 lawhawk

One of the officers executed a carotid chokehold, Burton said, briefly knocking Meister out.

“We have ways to make you talk.”

115 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 11:19:43am

Seattle pays $1.5 million to family of man who was deaf in one ear who was gunned down by police.

Birk resigned Feb. 16 after the release of a scathing report by the Firearms Review Board report that found, among other problems, that Birk didn’t identify himself as a police officer as he approached Williams from behind. Williams was crossing the intersection while carving on a piece of wood with a legal knife (shown here in a police photo). The knife was folded shut when found by officers.

Williams, who was deaf in one ear, was shot in the side, not facing the officer.

Officer Birk was not criminally charged in the shooting.

116 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 11:19:45am

re: #102 CuriousLurker

Then you’re definitely not black.

Claimed he/she was a minority, so maybe a woman.
Or could be one of those “minority”, middle aged, straight, Christian, white males. //

117 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:20:25am

re: #94 Kragar

Have you actually tried giving the police the silent treatment? They rely on you not using your right to remain silent.

118 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 11:20:54am

re: #112 Sc0rp

Ok, if that’s what you want to believe. Like I said, I don’t want to get into my race.

Why is that? Because people who look at you just assume you’re white?

119 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:21:01am

re: #108 Lidane

Yeah, you’re definitely not a minority in this country.

Good luck trying that if you’re brown or black.

There are plenty of ways to be a minority without being black or brown. I suspect that this person’s claim of minority status has to do with something other than race, which is rather disingenuous given that race is the topic of the discussion.

My spidey sense is tingling…

120 Kilroy01  Aug 28, 2014 11:21:55am

re: #99 jaunte

‘Dehumanizing stares,’ body language prompted arrest of Florida teen feeding puppy

Here is the result of the arrest. Not as bad as it could be but still makes me angry as hell
ushypocrisy.com

121 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:22:03am

re: #116 blueraven

I’m male. Also not white. Not middle-aged… yet. My anecdote took place in the 90’s when I was in my late teens.

122 ausador  Aug 28, 2014 11:22:14am

I wouldn’t have minded hanging at a park in lieu of being dumped at some supervised activity thing. Give me a couple of bottles of water and a book and I’d have been fine.

123 Khal Wimpo  Aug 28, 2014 11:23:07am

re: #94 Kragar

Yeeeahhhh … I’m gonna hafta agree with you on the whole “not supported by evidence in wider test cases” on this theory.

One of the reasons cops say provocative things to people they encounter is to see what kind of response they get. Guys who are holding tend to give a very different response than guys who are just going to the market. Basically, you want to see what kind of “flex” the guy shows. This technique should only be used in neutral to low-level tension situations - not in a call where the people at the scene are already fighting (i.e. a domestic), since in that situation, you want to figure out how to de-escalate, rather than throwing gasoline on the flames.

Cops also want to try to figure out if the person they’re talking to is under the influence of something. Just staring at them in a detached way when they’re trying to engage you in conversation would tend to make them think that you’re spaced (if you’re not displaying nystagmus symptoms, which is what the whole “follow this pen as I move it back and forth in front of your eyes” part of the FST is about).

124 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:24:01am

re: #110 lawhawk

Yeah, I’m aware of that case. I can talk and hear. There is a difference between moving your hands around and simply not communicating if you don’t have to communicate.

125 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:24:12am

re: #119 CuriousLurker

There are plenty of ways to be a minority without being black or brown. I suspect that this person’s claim of minority status has to do with something other than race, which is rather disingenuous given that race is the topic of the discussion.

My spidey sense is tingling…

Yeah, I can understand wanting not to talk about it, but talking around it is no good. If we’re going to try to make the personal political, we need to know about the personal.

126 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 28, 2014 11:25:36am

Hey as a guy who pushes it some with my camera and sometimes a helper or two and some gear, I want to tell ya that while I might be in my rights to refuse to say who I am, or why I’m there I find it well worthwhile to go ahead and provide that information. And I’m a white guy. Sometimes that not really a request for your information as much as it it an attitude check. Uncooperative=covering for criminal behavior in their minds.

Here is a link to a story at PINAC (about to become a site dedicated to opposing police abuse across the board) where the guy is deliberately uncooperative. Now just in my opinion, some of these guys are provoking the police. Including the guy linked. That’s just stupid more than brave “navigating the waters” of personal civil rights.

When/if the police violate your rights the most unhelpful place and time to expect any change or help is on the spot. Think that through. It means you need to avoid getting hurt up front, and redress your grievances later.

This in fact is my one hesitation about Carlos and his site PINAC. I don’t think provocations are the best cases to point out violations. But hey, just like here, his site, his rules own it. And he started the site as a victim of police abuse himself. As it happens I just signed up to his site, and might collaborate with him on a video.

127 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 11:26:06am

re: #121 Sc0rp

I’m male. Also not white. Not middle-aged… yet. My anecdote took place in the 90’s when I was in my late teens.

Are we making this a guessing game? I’ll guess Asian… Chinese, Japanese or Korean. But not SE Asian (Vietnamese, Filipino etc)

128 Bulworth  Aug 28, 2014 11:26:14am
The video, shot by the man’s cellphone, shows his interaction with officers as he attempts to pick up his children from New Horizon Academy in downtown St. Paul. As the officers force the man to put his hands behind his back, he drops his phone and the video goes black, but the audio continues and we hear the man crying for help and proclaiming that his kids are watching. Both officers in the video are white.

I’m sure Dim Jim will have an x-ray picture of the blown eye sockets suffered by both of these cops.

Also, a witness, let’s call her “Josie”, has called in to say that this guy assaulted the cops….

///

129 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:26:48am

re: #112 Sc0rp

Ok, if that’s what you want to believe. Like I said, I don’t want to get into my race. […]

Okay, then we’re done here. You disingenuousness and lack of any evidence beyond personal anecdotes to support your argument is lame. Bye now.

*scroll, scroll, scroll…*

130 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:26:59am

re: #117 Sc0rp

Have you actually tried giving the police the silent treatment? They rely on you not using your right to remain silent.

You’re confusing the grounds for which you can be stopped and placed under arrest with questioning. Sure, they may be forced to eventually let you go if you just remain silent, but it does nothing to prevent you from being hassled in the first place.

131 alpuz  Aug 28, 2014 11:27:02am

re: #100 thedopefishlives

Afternoon Lizardim. I’m a bit disappointed in Minnesota; between the violent arrest of the community organizer in Minneapolis and this, it’s not looking good for a state that prides itself on tolerance and restraint. So much for “Minnesota Nice”, eh? How go things among the lizardfolk?

Welp. Yeah, I’m with ya on this one. It’s too bad since I’ve been looking at moving there if & when I escape from Wisconsin. In fact, from what I’ve been reading/hearing you guys are most likely going to see an invasion of cheeseheads over the next few years.

Anyhow. Race relations in MN are a drastic contrast(much better) to what I’ve witnessed while living in both Texas and Wisconsin. I know in the context of the convo/situation that doesn’t really mean squat, but hey… I thought I’d throw it out there.

‘Minnesota nice’ is a lot more pleasant than ‘Texas nice’ in my opinion.

132 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 11:27:35am

re: #131 alpuz

Welp. Yeah, I’m with ya on this one. It’s too bad since I’ve been looking at moving there if & when I escape from Wisconsin. In fact, from what I’ve been reading/hearing you guys are most likely going to see an invasion of cheeseheads over the next few years.

Anyhow. Race relations in MN are a drastic contrast(much better) to what I’ve witnessed while living in both Texas and Wisconsin. I know in the context of the convo/situation that doesn’t really mean squat, but hey… I thought I’d throw it out there.

‘Minnesota nice’ is a lot more pleasant than ‘Texas nice’ in my opinion.

Minnesota isn’t a bad place, really. It’s just not as good as my rose-colored glasses led me to believe. Damn you all for breaking them.////

133 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:27:37am

I really see nothing wrong with what the guy did. I really hope he sues the crap out of this police department. This shit just isn’t right.

134 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:28:02am

re: #117 Sc0rp

Have you actually tried giving the police the silent treatment? They rely on you not using your right to remain silent.

I think you’re getting pushback because you’re overgenralizing, using principles and reasoning that don’t match up with wider real world experience.

Just my two cents worth.

135 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 11:28:05am

This tweet of mine just got RT’d a bunch after @AntonioFrench RT’d it.

Bought them a nice Keurig coffee maker from their Amazon wish list. I wanted to donate last week during the height of the protests but never got around to it.

136 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:28:31am

re: #127 AntonSirius

Nope, not asian.

137 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:28:53am

Of course I’ve only studied criminal justice in college , worked security forces and with MPs for over 2 years, what would I know about it.

138 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:29:41am

re: #130 Kragar

You’re confusing the grounds for which you can be stopped and placed under arrest with questioning. Sure, they may be forced to eventually let you go if you just remain silent, but it does nothing to prevent you from being hassled in the first place.

Non-cooperation can often be used as basis of resisting arresting.

I think there’s some naiveté here that what you actually do is the basis for getting arrested and/or abused by the police.

139 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 11:30:00am

Asian? Middle-Eastern? Indian/Pakistani? Hispanic? Native American? Pacific Islander?

Just spit it out already. We can’t see you over The Internet if your web cam isn’t turned on.

140 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:30:07am
141 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:30:38am

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Asian? Middle-Eastern? Indian/Pakistani? Hispanic? Native American? Pacific Islander?

Just spit it out already. We can’t see you over The Internet if your web cam isn’t turned on.

I don’t think this is relevant. Bad reasoning is bad reasoning.

142 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 11:30:52am

re: #136 Sc0rp

Nope, not asian.

Oh, so you’re just trolling then.

Otherwise, why would you coyly respond to me without supplying the answer?

143 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 11:31:22am

re: #142 AntonSirius

Is troll an ethnicity?

144 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 11:31:37am

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Just spit it out already. We can’t see you over The Internet if your web cam isn’t turned on.

HOW CAN YOU BEE SO SHURE ABOUT THAT!!!!111

145 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:31:40am

re: #138 gwangung

Non-cooperation can often be used as basis of resisting arresting.

I think there’s some naiveté here that what you actually do is the basis for getting arrested and/or abused by the police.

Yeah, you’ll get arrested, you’ll get booked, and you’ll win your court case because hey, you were within your rights.

And then you’ll get arrested and booked again the next time.

146 Lidane  Aug 28, 2014 11:32:05am

Oh hey. Look at that. Teachable moments can happen:

For the owner of the shooting range in White Hills, Arizona, where 39-year-old instructor Charles Vacca was killed, the new appropriate age is 12.

Before the Monday shooting, children had to be at least 8 to fire a gun. The 9-year-old killed Vacca, who is from Lake Havasu City, Arizona, when the recoil sent the gun over her head, according to local authorities. The girl, who the Mohave County Sherriff’s Department has not identified, was accompanied by her parents.

Sam Scarmado, owner of Last Stop, the business with a shooting range where Vacca was killed, also created a new requirement: Shooters must be at least 5 feet tall, according to CBS New York.

Last Stop did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday, and a woman who answered Scarmado’s home phone didn’t want to talk about the accident because “we have been hounded all day. We are recovering from a tragic accident.”

Cue the outcry from the usual ammosexual loons about how these guys caved into the PC libtards and they clearly hate the Second Amendment.

147 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:32:18am

It doesn’t matter what race he is. Asshole isn’t a minority.

148 S'latch  Aug 28, 2014 11:32:49am

I don’t know if Minnesota has a “Stop and Identify” statute. But the idea is really offensive and it ought to be unconstitutional.

However, these statutes authorize police to detain and request identification or arrest.

But, it ought to be an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause.

Not doubt such statutes are applied unequally to minorities.

149 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:33:51am

re: #134 gwangung

Of course you can’t stop them from harassing you, but I’m talking about how I survive police encounters. You let the police know that you know your rights by fleeing them properly in your behavior, not by saying it. If they believe that you really know your rights through your behavior, they might just be less inclined to violate them because at that point, they really don’t know who you are.That doesn’t mean that they won’t, but barking at them does not help.

150 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:33:58am

re: #146 Lidane

Oh hey. Look at that. Teachable moments can happen:

Cue the outcry from the usual ammosexual loons about how these guys caved into the PC libtards and they clearly hate the Second Amendment.

I am glad they changed the age but 12 still feels way too young for me.

151 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:34:40am

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

None of the above.

152 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:35:15am

theonion.com
I love the Onion so very much.

153 Lidane  Aug 28, 2014 11:35:30am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I am glad they changed the age but 12 still feels way too young for me.

They didn’t just change it to 12. They also added a You Must Be This Tall to Shoot requirement too.

154 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:35:46am

re: #149 Sc0rp

Of course you can’t stop them from harassing you, but I’m talking about how I survive police encounters. You let the police know that you know your rights by fleeing them properly in your behavior, not by saying it. If they believe that you really know your rights through your behavior, they might just be less inclined to violate them because at that point, they really don’t know who you are.That doesn’t mean that they won’t, but barking at them does not help.

Naive. Well intentioned, but naive.

155 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:35:57am

re: #149 Sc0rp

Of course you can’t stop them from harassing you, but I’m talking about how I survive police encounters. You let the police know that you know your rights by fleeing them properly in your behavior, not by saying it. If they believe that you really know your rights through your behavior, they might just be less inclined to violate them because at that point, they really don’t know who you are.That doesn’t mean that they won’t, but barking at them does not help.

So the gentlemen who was shot in the back at Walmart while shopping for a BB gun, what could he have done to let the cops know he knew his rights?

156 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 11:36:24am

re: #126 Rightwingconspirator

Agreed.

I’m frequently taking pictures of landmarks, national parks, and other major attractions either as part of my daily routine or travels. Those are the kinds of things that police at these areas encounter regularly. That doesn’t stop some, especially the PAPD, from take a hard-ish approach around the WTC (especially underground in the PATH complex).

I don’t go out of my way to provoke them. If the officers are interested, I’ll talk up what I do, that I take landscapes/architecture shots, and that I’ve been blogging/cataloging the WTC rebuilding since after the attacks. At least around the WTC, the cops are in a pretty regular rotation, so they get to know the routine. They’ve got a tough job, and I don’t want to make it any tougher. I’m also relying on their ability to keep people safe if something does happen.

So I stay polite and civil, and follow their instructions on staying within areas where I can photograph.

157 darthstar  Aug 28, 2014 11:36:29am

re: #147 Kragar

It doesn’t matter what race he is. Asshole isn’t a minority.

Talking about this guy? I said something similar to him.

158 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:36:32am

re: #142 AntonSirius

I’m not trolling. All I said is that I don’t want to go into my ethnicity. I find it interesting the people feel inclined to tell me what my race is or that my race matters. I’ll tell you one thing, I have not told a single lie here today.

159 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 11:37:15am

re: #148 S’latch

I don’t know if Minnesota has a “Stop and Identify” statute. But the idea is really offensive and it ought to be unconstitutional.

However, these statutes authorize police to detain and request identification or arrest.

But, it ought to be an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause.

Not doubt such statutes are applied unequally to minorities.

From an article I read this morning, MN does not have a “Stop and Identify” statute.

theroot.com

(They cite RawStory, but RawStory has a sad when Charles links to them, because page views).

160 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:37:35am

re: #157 darthstar

Talking about this guy? I said something similar to him.

[Embedded content]

Gunoholic. Well, the first step is admitting that you have a problem.

161 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:38:03am

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Asian? Middle-Eastern? Indian/Pakistani? Hispanic? Native American? Pacific Islander?

Just spit it out already. We can’t see you over The Internet if your web cam isn’t turned on.

Probably not even that. Maybe homeless, LGBT, or any number of things. Or it could be a bald-faced liar sock or troll—after all we don’t know who’s really sitting behind the keyboard. The coyness is annoying.

162 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:39:17am

re: #143 jaunte

Is troll an ethnicity?

LOL, it should be. It would be nice if they were also a much smaller minority.

163 darthstar  Aug 28, 2014 11:39:21am

re: #160 HappyWarrior

Gunoholic. Well, the first step is admitting that you have a problem.

He wants to start a friendly firing range in NC. Just needs someone else to buy the property and foot the bill.

164 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 11:39:42am

re: #158 Sc0rp

I’m not trolling.

Then stop engaging in trollish behavior.

165 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:40:15am

re: #154 gwangung

Well, seeing as I’ve had to deal with the police several times and even once had some cops try to entrap me for a crime that I actually only witnessed and had a buddy win a $250k+ lawsuit against the police in my old hometown. I guess…

166 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:41:19am

re: #163 darthstar

He wants to start a friendly firing range in NC. Just needs someone else to buy the property and foot the bill.

Remind me not to go to that part of NC.

167 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:41:58am

re: #158 Sc0rp

I’m not trolling. All I said is that I don’t want to go into my ethnicity. I find it interesting the people feel inclined to tell me what my race is or that my race matters. I’ll tell you one thing, I have not told a single lie here today.

The conversation is about race and police behavior. You want to talk about police behavior without talking about race.

Youtube Video

168 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:42:00am
169 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:42:32am

re: #161 CuriousLurker

I don’t lie. I just don’t like people that don’t know me to tell me what my ethnicity is or what my life is. I haven’t formed any assumptions about you, your race or your lifestyle, don’t do that to me.

170 Lancelot Link  Aug 28, 2014 11:42:45am

re: #122 ausador

Follow
One mom let her kid play in a park by herself. The other let her kid shoot an Uzi. Guess which mom ends up in jail?

That’s easy. The black one.

171 Lidane  Aug 28, 2014 11:43:20am

As if there aren’t enough problems with trigger happy cops. WTF.

WATCH: Heavily armed SWAT unit bursts through gamer’s door after prank call

In video posted on YouTube, the gamer suspects he may be the victim of a “swatting” prank because he can hear officers clearing the building outside the office door.

“There’s a somewhat, not really common, prank that happens,” said Daniel Gidlow, another member of The Creatures. “While we’re live streaming to thousands of people, somebody calls the cops.”

Mathewson removes his headphones just as police enter with their guns drawn and order him to the ground.

At least five officers surround Mathewson, who is handcuffed and then questioned.

One of the officers demands to know what Mathewson, who can be seen on the video chuckling as he realizes he has been pranked, finds so funny, but the gamer insists he finds nothing humorous about the situation.

Mathewson tells police during questioning that he has some fake prop guns at the office, and police said their examination of those phony weapons slowed their search of the building.

The officers eventually realize they have been taken in by a hoax, and they let Mathewson go.

Notice how the gamer in question is a white guy. Try that with a Middle Eastern or black man and he would’ve been killed.

172 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:43:33am

re: #164 AntonSirius

I’m not engaging in trollish behavior. So far, all I did was state my opinion and answer the questions that you guys asked. It isn’t trolling simply because you don’t like the answer.

173 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:43:57am

re: #169 Sc0rp

I don’t lie. I just don’t like people that don’t know me to tell me what my ethnicity is or what my life is. I haven’t formed any assumptions about you, your race or your lifestyle, don’t do that to me.

Nobody wants to tell you what your ethnicity is.

174 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 11:45:15am

Oh the drama. Time to go back to my coding. *eyeroll*

Drama Llama

175 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:45:17am

re: #165 Sc0rp

Well, seeing as I’ve had to deal with the police several times and even once had some cops try to entrap me for a crime that I actually only witnessed and had a buddy win a $250k+ lawsuit against the police in my old hometown. I guess…

Doubling down on the naivety and not getting at all what people are talking about.

176 darthstar  Aug 28, 2014 11:45:44am

re: #173 wrenchwench

Nobody wants to tell you what your ethnicity is.

Although I will say I get a distinct Melanesian vibe with a hint of Dutch.

177 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:45:46am

re: #172 Sc0rp

I’m not engaging in trollish behavior. So far, all I did was state my opinion and answer the questions that you guys asked. It isn’t trolling simply because you don’t like the answer.

It is trolling if you pick and choose which to answer.

You are blaming the victim in the video. Stop it.

178 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:46:14am

re: #172 Sc0rp

I’m not engaging in trollish behavior. So far, all I did was state my opinion and answer the questions that you guys asked. It isn’t trolling simply because you don’t like the answer.

No, sir, you are giving answers that do not fit the questions.

That’s HIGHLY annoying.

179 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 11:46:42am

re: #176 darthstar

I was going to go with Flemish myself… with a hint of German.

180 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:47:07am

re: #167 wrenchwench

Can we agree that barking at the police isn’t a good idea irregardless of your race?

181 darthstar  Aug 28, 2014 11:47:21am

Florida Man is my hero.

182 Interesting Times  Aug 28, 2014 11:47:32am

re: #172 Sc0rp

I’m not engaging in trollish behavior. So far, all I did was state my opinion and answer the questions that you guys asked.

No, you repeated dodged and danced around the one on race. Thing is, if you’re going to pull the “argument from authority anecdote” trick, your anecdote rapidly loses relevance and credibility if it fails to address the core point of this discussion: black people, on average, receive worse treatment from police no matter how they act.

183 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 11:48:24am

re: #179 lawhawk

I was going to go with Flemish myself… with a hint of German.

Possibly a Macaroon.

184 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:48:32am

re: #177 wrenchwench

You are blaming the victim in the video.

I’m not blaming the victim. I am assessing the situation. At no point did I say that the police were justified.

185 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 11:48:35am

re: #172 Sc0rp

I’m not engaging in trollish behavior. So far, all I did was state my opinion and answer the questions that you guys asked. It isn’t trolling simply because you don’t like the answer.

Actually, you are. As wrenchwench noted above, you entered into a discussion about race and police abuses, made a point of declaring yourself you be a “minority” (but said you didn’t want to discuss it) and then went about discussing it without actually revealing what sort of minority you are. That’s fairly standard trollish deflecting/derailing behavior.

If you don’t want to discuss it, then don’t respond to people who discuss it. Seems pretty simple.

186 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:49:22am

re: #180 Sc0rp

Can we agree that barking at the police isn’t a good idea irregardless of your race?

Can we call you a racist for referring to the man’s words as ‘barking’?

187 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:49:26am

re: #173 wrenchwench

Nobody wants to tell you what your ethnicity is.

Some of us don’t even give a shit.

188 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:49:46am

sooo…I’ve got some lovely, tender purple eggplants sitting in the kitchen.
I’m thinking maybe making Moroccan chicken with eggplant for supper tonight. Serve with long grain & wild rice or garlic roasted couscous?

189 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:50:13am
190 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:50:18am

re: #184 Sc0rp

I’m not blaming the victim. I am assessing the situation. At no point did I say that the police were justified.

You are assessing that he could have behaved differently and gotten a different result.

I’m calling that victim-blaming.

191 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:50:28am

re: #181 darthstar

Florida Man is my hero.

[Embedded content]

standing his ground, obviously…

192 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:50:40am

re: #189 Kragar

[Embedded content]

So what you’re saying is we need less regulations.

193 darthstar  Aug 28, 2014 11:50:56am
194 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:51:19am

re: #182 Interesting Times

“No, you repeated dodged and danced around the one on race.”

Well, what if I told you that I was black, after the original person expressly said that I wasn’t? Would you believe me at my word or would you require, eventually, that I dox myself to satisfy the claim?

195 Kilroy01  Aug 28, 2014 11:51:29am

re: #189 Kragar

It is Louisiana, the poor thing will starve to death.

196 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:52:08am

re: #190 wrenchwench

I think that it goes without saying that if he had moved along his chances of getting arrested would have went down significantly.

197 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:52:17am

re: #189 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It explains so, soooo much…

198 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 11:52:28am

re: #194 Sc0rp

“No, you repeated dodged and danced around the one on race.”

Well, what if I told you that I was black, after the original person expressly said that I wasn’t? Would you believe me at my word or would you require, eventually, that I dox myself to satisfy the claim?

Now you’re just being an asshole.

199 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:53:11am

re: #196 Sc0rp

I think that it goes without saying that if he had moved along his chances of getting arrested would have went down significantly.

Then you should not have said it.

I think you’re a troll.

Done now.

200 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:53:32am

re: #196 Sc0rp

I think that it goes without saying that if he had moved along his chances of getting arrested would have went down significantly.

oh, good freaking grief….

201 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 11:53:40am

re: #148 S’latch

I don’t know if Minnesota has a “Stop and identify” statute. But the idea is really offensive and it ought to be unconstitutional.

However, these statutes authorize police to detain and request identification or arrest.

But, it ought to be an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause.

We do not. I believe that was mentioned in the article.

202 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:53:50am

dogwhistle is deafening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

203 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:54:11am

re: #186 wrenchwench

Can we call you a racist for referring to the man’s words as ‘barking’?

I suppose you could if you wish to ignore the substance of my statement and focus on my choice of words instead.

204 HappyWarrior  Aug 28, 2014 11:55:00am

Can I just say I am glad there are no comments allowed on the original article?

205 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:55:14am

Brain-eating amoeba found in La. parish’s water system

The water system was sampled as part of DHH’s surveillance, which was started earlier in August. During the amoeba testing, the department found that the system was not in compliance with the state’s emergency rule, which requires systems to maintain a minimum disinfectant residual level of .5 milligrams per liter throughout all of their distribution lines, according to a statement by the DHH. The disinfectant residual level is known to control amoeba.

The parish says it tests its water system daily, but why chlorine levels dropped below state required levels is now under investigation.

“Clearly, as we get to exactly what has happened in this case, the protocol will be revisited and if changes are necessary we will take care of that,” said parish President Natalie Robottom.

“The parish utilities department is taking immediate actions to fully chlorinate the water system and eliminate the threat,” Robottom added.

However, with the holiday weekend approaching, residents are being asked to use caution.

“It is safe to drink, to eat, and use to cook,” Robottom said. “The problem is to make sure that you keep precautions to prevent the water from going up your nose. Now understanding it’s the holiday weekend, swimming and slip ‘n’ slide, those are all areas to proceed with caution.”

The water system serves 12,577 people in the towns of Reserve, Garyville and Mount Airy.

206 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:55:22am

re: #194 Sc0rp

“No, you repeated dodged and danced around the one on race.”

Well, what if I told you that I was black, after the original person expressly said that I wasn’t? Would you believe me at my word or would you require, eventually, that I dox myself to satisfy the claim?

Basically, you’re demonstrating that You Do Not Know What The Frack You’re Talking About.

Always glad to be shown, not told.

207 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:55:50am

re: #202 Backwoods_Sleuth

dogwhistle is deafening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s all over but the dinging.

208 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 11:56:27am

re: #203 Sc0rp

I suppose you could if you wish to ignore the substance of my statement and focus on my choice of words instead.

I think you could by taking account of both.

You should quit while you’re ahead.

209 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:56:31am

re: #199 wrenchwench

So I shouldn’t say something that’s logical. Choose your battles man. I’ll just sit here with my clean criminal record an no recording of me pleading for mercy from the police officers that I was just arguing with a few seconds ago.

210 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 11:56:36am

re: #148 S’latch

I don’t know if Minnesota has a “Stop and identify” statute. But the idea is really offensive and it ought to be unconstitutional.

However, these statutes authorize police to detain and request identification or arrest.

But, it ought to be an unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause.

Yeah…found that out myself once. Where I used to work back in the early 00’s I would grab lunch and park in a library parking lot to eat and read the paper. Did this for like 3 years or more in a row, same time, same place.

The library was also next to a school. The playground of the school was just beyond that probably a football field away.

One day I finished eating and was just reading the newspaper. When I caught some movement in my rearview mirror. I look up and sure enough, a female officer is standing a the back corner of my car hand on gun. I turn around and ask her what’s up.

She asks what I am doing and to provide some ID. I ask what for. I am told the principal at the school called and reported me for being a stalker and looking at the kids on the playground.

WHOA!!! Back up now. I explained I am doing what I have been doing for the past three years and now it is a problem. I gave them my license and business card that identified I worked about two blocks away (just past the trees of the playground in crow flight.

The officer says I need to move along and they don’t want to see me there ever again. Fuck! What did I do to deserve this.

I stewed about it for the whole afternoon and when I got off work drove right to the small (Columbus ‘burb) town cop shop and asked to talk to the man in charge.

I told him my whole story and he said he understood, but everyone from the police woman to the principal was just doing their job and that I should have expected it parking right by the school like that. He said they had every right to ask for ID and assume I could be trouble,

I asked how they missed me for all those years. He told me don’t be a smart ass. I saw I was getting nowhere. I told him I was extremely disappointed by the whole thing and being a bit guilty and having to prove who I was, and I was still left feeling like I was some kind of pervert.

I asked him if he thought if I could any longer feel like I was a free person in the United States. And then I walked out the door. Fucking cop was an arrogant asshole and treated me like I was still suspicious. Once a perp always a perp.

And I had even done the design and graphics for their fucking D.A.R.E. program and worked with their D.A.R.E. instruction, their youth officer.

I learned a lot. And I was probably 50 or so at the time, professional, nice new car, and white.

Still pisses me off thinking about it. And yes, I understand kids need protecting. But so do individual rights when the person has not done anything. I wasn’t even parked where I could spot the kids if I wanted to, and had my face buried in the newspaper.

By the way. I did several graphics packages for local D.A.R.E cars. One of the cops (Dublin) was later arrested for having child porn on his computer at the cop station. Brilliant. Go figure.

211 AntonSirius  Aug 28, 2014 11:57:05am

re: #188 Backwoods_Sleuth

sooo…I’ve got some lovely, tender purple eggplants sitting in the kitchen.
I’m thinking maybe making Moroccan chicken with eggplant for supper tonight. Serve with long grain & wild rice or garlic roasted couscous?

I will always pick couscous over rice

212 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 11:57:35am

Troll in the dungeon

213 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 11:57:41am

re: #211 AntonSirius

I will always pick couscous over rice

thanks…that’s the direction I was leaning.

214 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 11:57:53am

re: #155 Kragar

So the gentlemen who was shot in the back at Walmart while shopping for a BB gun, what could he have done to let the cops know he knew his rights?

Pffft. Not be black for one!

/// x infinity.

215 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 11:57:55am

re: #211 AntonSirius

I will always pick couscous over rice

I could go either way if it weren’t for the garlic. I vote rice.

216 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 11:58:20am

re: #212 lawhawk

Troll in the dungeon

Yeah, I’m done paying attention to him

217 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 11:58:43am

re: #206 gwangung

I know exactly what I’m talking about. But very well, believe what you wish.

218 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 11:59:22am

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

so many possible captions for this…(the Ride of the Century debacle in StL comes immediately to mind…)

[Embedded content]

Where is Floral?

219 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 12:00:00pm

re: #212 lawhawk

That GIF is getting some depressingly good play these days.

220 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 12:00:02pm

re: #217 Sc0rp

I know exactly what I’m talking about. But very well, believe what you wish.

That’s nice. Dunning Kruger effect and all.

221 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:00:33pm

re: #215 wrenchwench

I could go either way if it weren’t for the garlic. I vote rice.

I could still go with the rice. I’ll see how I feel after making the main dish. It’s going to be completely from scratch, with fresh chopped red and yellow tomatoes instead of the canned stuff most recipes call for.

222 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:01:41pm

re: #99 jaunte

‘Dehumanizing stares,’ body language prompted arrest of Florida teen feeding puppy

dehumanizing stares —yeah definitely a crime.

Sorry, this is one of those manbox things —men get very weird about how people look at them.

223 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 12:01:45pm

re: #186 wrenchwench

Can we call you a racist for referring to the man’s words as ‘barking’?

This from a person that said his own deep voice can be startling.

224 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 12:02:19pm

re: #169 Sc0rp

I don’t lie. I just don’t like people that don’t know me to tell me what my ethnicity is or what my life is. I haven’t formed any assumptions about you, your race or your lifestyle, don’t do that to me.

Yet you have no fucking problem saying what the black guy in the video should have done. And assuming if he had acted as you would, then he would have been better off.

Hypocrite.
Done with you now.

225 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:02:45pm

re: #155 Kragar

There wasn’t anything that could be done in that case. It is very different from the above video or anything I’ve had to deal with. I have a cousin that was stopped by the police because he was open carrying in virginia and after that, he was arrested for ‘carrying a concealed weapon’ in VA because he was driving around with his firearm in plain sight. Of course, the judge dismissed all charges and gave the arresting officer a severe tongue-lashing in open court, but that goes without saying that ‘carrying anything resembling a gun while black’ is a serious issue of double standard in our justice system.

226 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:02:52pm

re: #222 FemNaziBitch

dehumanizing stares —yeah definitely a crime.

Sorry, this is one of those manbox things —men get very weird about how people look at them.

I think that goes for women just as much. Maybe differently, but just as much.

227 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:03:39pm

re: #110 lawhawk

Police tasered a deaf man into unconsciousness because he was trying to sign.

“The arresting officers either did not have or did not choose to apply common sense to handle a non-threatening situation that could have been resolved in a few minutes,” Meister said in a statement.

QFT

228 b_sharp  Aug 28, 2014 12:03:45pm

Is it safe?

229 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 12:03:50pm

Youtube Video

230 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 12:04:01pm

re: #228 b_sharp

Is it safe?

Never

231 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 12:04:53pm

re: #228 b_sharp

Safe? What a concept.

232 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:05:05pm

re: #228 b_sharp

Is it safe?

It goes without saying.

233 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:05:43pm

re: #224 blueraven

Yet you have no fucking problem saying what the black guy in the video should have done.

Yup

And assuming if he had acted as you would, then he would have been better off.

It wouldn’t hurt.

234 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:05:48pm

re: #132 thedopefishlives

Minnesota isn’t a bad place, really. It’s just not as good as my rose-colored glasses led me to believe. Damn you all for breaking them.////

Prince lives in MN.

235 b_sharp  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:12pm

I know nothing.
I see nothing.

236 Charles Johnson  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:13pm

I didn’t hear any “barking” in that video. I did hear him calmly trying to assert his rights.

237 ObserverArt  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:14pm

Later LGFers. As others have stated in the past…play nice.

And don’t park by schools, sit on a bench…on and on…

238 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:16pm

re: #234 FemNaziBitch

Prince lives in MN.

I know. Mrs. Fish met him once.

239 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:20pm

re: #136 Sc0rp

Nope, not asian.

Well, now that all the attention is on you … .

240 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:06:42pm

hatchling’s family and friends seem to get involved in an awful lot of legal troubles and it’s never NEVER their fault.

They sound like some neighbors I had many years ago.

241 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:08:26pm

re: #240 Backwoods_Sleuth

hatchling’s family and friends seem to get involved in an awful lot of legal troubles and it’s never NEVER their fault.

They sound like some neighbors I had many years ago.

Were they of indeterminate race?

242 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 12:08:43pm

Tonight is Pie Baking night.

243 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:09:15pm

re: #171 Lidane

As if there aren’t enough problems with trigger happy cops. WTF.

WATCH: Heavily armed SWAT unit bursts through gamer’s door after prank call

Notice how the gamer in question is a white guy. Try that with a Middle Eastern or black man and he would’ve been killed.

WE’RE GOING TO SHOW THEM WHO IS BOSS around here. Big toys + Force = RESPECT.

No, it equals a lawsuit and possible end of career.

244 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:09:16pm

re: #242 Pie-onist Overlord

Tonight is Pie Baking night.

Banana cream with graham cracker crust.

245 Kilroy01  Aug 28, 2014 12:09:30pm

OT ..

Stormtwerters..
facebook.com

246 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:05pm

re: #244 wrenchwench

Banana cream with graham cracker crust.

I don’t like bananas or coconut so those pies are right out.

247 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:16pm

Mississippi mud pie?

248 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:22pm

re: #189 Kragar

[Embedded content]

This is why you either boil your Neti Pot water or buy distilled.

249 b.d.  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:26pm

CNN Banner Headline:

Firm that runs app that captured audio of shots says recording was made at 12:02 p.m. Aug. 9, about the time Michael Brown was killed.

250 b_sharp  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:28pm

My comment on life:

I’m sitting in front of a system trying to run a single program. After double clicking the icon, the drive light has been on constantly (more or less) for 20 minutes. The app, an app designed to remove the evils in a computer’s life, hasn’t even twitched.

251 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:10:38pm

re: #247 Pie-onist Overlord

Mississippi mud pie?

OK, you have convinced me.

252 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 28, 2014 12:11:06pm

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

253 b.d.  Aug 28, 2014 12:11:31pm

re: #242 Pie-onist Overlord

Tonight is Pie Baking night.

I read that as Pie Barking Night…That’s what I get for trying to read all of the comments at once.

254 Interesting Times  Aug 28, 2014 12:11:49pm

re: #249 b.d.

CNN Banner Headline:

Firm that runs app that captured audio of shots says recording was made at 12:02 p.m. Aug. 9, about the time Michael Brown was killed.

durr hurr, app firm pushing a HOAX!!!1!!

/dimhoft

255 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:11:56pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

There is no alternative. Can you walk into a bar and get a double shot to go?

256 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:12:40pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

I didn’t hear any “barking” in that video. I did hear him calmly trying to assert his rights.

In a non-belligerant and articulate-like way too! And, I bet he was well groomed.

:0

The point being that no matter what the Fox News Drones say is the reason a black person is arrested (appearance, ghetto talk) it simply isn’t true.

257 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:12:53pm

re: #238 thedopefishlives

I know. Mrs. Fish met him once.

ooooh, can I touch you?

258 allegro  Aug 28, 2014 12:12:57pm

re: #180 Sc0rp

Can we agree that barking at the police isn’t a good idea irregardless of your race?

Downding for the word “irregardless.” Sheeeeesh.

259 Randall Gross  Aug 28, 2014 12:13:40pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

I didn’t hear any “barking” in that video. I did hear him calmly trying to assert his rights.

I didn’t hear any barking either.

Sc0rp said “dox” ….

260 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:13:50pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

buy an airplane bottle.

They used to keep them by the register at my old liquer store —well they did 20 years ago anyway.

261 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 12:14:10pm

re: #249 b.d.

What would the company that made the app know about time stamps on the recordings? //////

Seriously though, that adds to the evidence that the recording is authentic.

262 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:14:17pm

re: #255 wrenchwench

There is no alternative. Can you walk into a bar and get a double shot to go?

There is probably a substitute. I’d google it for you but I’m sober.

263 CuriousLurker  Aug 28, 2014 12:14:28pm

So: I’m a minority (of some sort, or so I claim) who has a “crystal clear criminal record with not even a citation for jaywalking”, yet for some reason the police think I associate with drug dealers and have harassed me countless times.

Uh-huh. //

That reminds me of the summer when my son was a tween and was supposed to stay indoors while I was at work. I came home unexpectedly and found him outside, soaking wet. His story? Some unidentifiable guys with bandanas covering their faces (yeah, seriously, like the old west) grabbed him and said they were kidnapping him. As they were running away with him someone saw what was happening and they dropped him in the swimming pool at the complex across the street. I just happened to come home right after he’d climbed out and made his way back across the street to our complex. Barely able to keep a straight face, I told him that we’d better call the police and report it lest they try to kidnap some other hapless kid. For some reason he wasn’t keen on that idea.

At age 30, that story still has the ability to make him ROFL to the point of tears.

264 BeachDem  Aug 28, 2014 12:15:03pm

re: #135 Franklin

This tweet of mine just got RT’d a bunch after @AntonioFrench RT’d it.

Bought them a nice Keurig coffee maker from their Amazon wish list. I wanted to donate last week during the height of the protests but never got around to it.

[Embedded content]

Do you know if they have an email address? Can’t find one. I was just going to send them an Amazon gift card instead of specific items.

265 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:16:04pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

Ah geeze… ok. I hear him arguing with the police officer and telling her that she is wrong. Police officers are conditioned to always believe that they are right. If you challenge them like that, you chances of being detained go way up. I hear the male officer threaten to arrest him a few times before actually doing it and instead of just cutting his losses, he continued to talk to them when that’s not why he is there at all. He is there to pick up his kids, not get in a debate with a police officer. Moving from where he was wouldn’t cost him anything to do. It isn’t like they are ordering him around on his own property or while walking down a sidewalk in public. The fact that this takes place indoors complicates his situation because, even though there are public areas, it isn’t public property. I mean, there are public areas all over, say, a museum, but that doesn’t mean that I can tell a security guard, a cop or the landlord to F-off if they tell me to move along.

Am I against challenging the police? No. Am I against flexing your rights? No. What I’m against is risking your life and livelihood over nothing because you just have to show the lion who’s boss in the jungle.

266 lawhawk  Aug 28, 2014 12:16:07pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

You can always get a couple of the minibar sized bottles, or the flask sized bottles. They make bottles from 50ml up to 1.75 liters.

totalwine.com

267 Lidane  Aug 28, 2014 12:16:12pm

Cue the next Dim Hoft outrage in 3…2…1…

Video Messaging Service Confirms Timestamp of Michael Brown Shooting Audio

The video messaging service Glide was the app used to record the audio CNN obtained purporting to capture gunshots from the scene of Michael Brown’s death. And today Glide posted on its blog that it verified that the timestamp of the audio matches the time of Brown’s death in Ferguson mere weeks ago.

268 allegro  Aug 28, 2014 12:16:21pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

Vodka and really strong coffee.

269 thecommodore  Aug 28, 2014 12:16:22pm

re: #35 Sc0rp

Ok, here’s the thing. He was inside of a building of some sort. Even though you can sit in public areas, the police or landlords can legally tell you to leave or move along, if you don’t, then you’re trespassing. He should have just told the cops that he was waiting for his kids instead of getting into that whole speech about how he knows his rights blah blah. He has the right to remain silent. He should use that right. Not that I think he shouldn’t flex his rights. Just that talking to the police does no good at all. Answering police questions does no good. Trying to reason with them does no good. Informing them of the law, that they clearly don’t know, does no good. The police are not WORTH talking to. When I encounter a cop, I only communicate with them as little as humanly possible. They ask me a question? I stare at them. They make a snide comment? I stare at them. They ask if they can do something? I tell them that I do not consent. If I need something (like medicine, for instance) I’ll inform them but that’s it, I’m not getting into a deep philosophical conversation with a cop because their default mindset is that they are not fallible, which is stupid. Either they take the hint and F-off back where they came from or they decide to arrest me for a crime. If I’m at the jail, I hope they like me staring at them until I get my lawyer.

You’re technically correct - the less you say to cops, the better, especially if the circumstances of the encounter are suspect. But you’re blaming the victim here. The cops had zero basis to continue the conversation after he refused to show them an ID, and the man then was instantly guilty of contempt of white cop by a black mam, which in some states can result in summary executuon.

270 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:17:00pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

Maybe the liquor store has those mini-bottles like on the airplane? My liquor store does.

271 Varek Raith  Aug 28, 2014 12:17:17pm

re: #263 CuriousLurker

Gotta love that kids think they can get away with making stories like that.
XD

272 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:17:33pm

re: #258 allegro

irregardless |ˌiriˈgärdlis|
adjective& adverb informal
regardless.

ORIGIN early 20th cent.: probably a blend of irrespective and regardless.
usage: Irregardless is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.

-Oxford

273 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:18:29pm

re: #272 Sc0rp

irregardless |ˌiriˈgärdlis|
adjective& adverb informal
regardless.

ORIGIN early 20th cent.: probably a blend of irrespective and regardless.
usage: Irregardless is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.

-Oxford

Dude, you just got here and you have negative karma.

Why don’t you quit while you are behind.

274 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:18:33pm

re: #259 Randall Gross

I didn’t hear any barking either.

Sc0rp said “dox” ….

That caught my eye too.

275 Varek Raith  Aug 28, 2014 12:18:50pm

re: #272 Sc0rp

All of the sudden I down dinged ya!

276 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 12:19:18pm

re: #257 FemNaziBitch

ooooh, can I touch you?

Hah, no, we are not playing Six Degrees of Prince here.

277 gwangung  Aug 28, 2014 12:19:38pm

re: #272 Sc0rp

irregardless |ˌiriˈgärdlis|
adjective& adverb informal
regardless.

ORIGIN early 20th cent.: probably a blend of irrespective and regardless.
usage: Irregardless is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.

-Oxford

Sorry, but that’s still a down ding-able offense.

278 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:20:11pm

re: #269 thecommodore

Well, I’m not trying to blame the victim. I think he made a serious mistake, but I do think the cops were really unreasonable. But, at the end of the day, who has to pay for the man’s mistake? Not the police. I think it is wrong for a lion to eat a person too, but if someone gets eaten by a lion because they made a mistake, I’ll take note of their mistake because it is in a lions nature to be a predator.

279 Randall Gross  Aug 28, 2014 12:20:34pm

re: #269 thecommodore

You’re technically correct - the less you say to cops, the better, especially if the circumstances of the encounter are suspect. But you’re blaming the victim here. The cops had zero basis to continue the conversation after he refused to show them an ID, and the man then was instantly guilty of contempt of white cop by a black mam, which in some states can result in summary executuon.

The cops never said the “arrest” word that I recall because they know that has a legal meaning. They never said “Detain” either, but they did say “go to jail”. This is all from my memory of watching it this am, and I’m not going to spike my BP by watching it again since trying to keep my quintuple bypass intact.

280 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 12:21:01pm

re: #264 BeachDem

Do you know if they have an email address? Can’t find one. I was just going to send them an Amazon gift card instead of specific items.

I don’t see one published unfortunately.

281 Dr Lizardo  Aug 28, 2014 12:21:11pm

re: #210 ObserverArt

This week, I’ve been teaching a class of five kids; all between 8 to 10 years old. Every morning, I take the bus to a nearby village called Proskovice, and then we head back into the center of town. We do some work at school, then we head out into town and converse in English.

I’m a foreigner here. At no point (thus far) has anyone asked me to produce any ID or asked me why I - Mr. Foreigner - am walking around with a bunch of Czech kids. No one. Neither civilian or police.

Perhaps I’m being paranoid, but I get the feeling that if this were taking place in the US, every day I’d be getting hassled, and who knows; with any luck, getting tased or held at gunpoint.

*smh*

282 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Aug 28, 2014 12:21:34pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I am glad they changed the age but 12 still feels way too young for me.

I learned to shoot at the age of 11 at a YMCA summer camp. Had a great time. Never fired a weapon since.

283 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 12:21:45pm

re: #269 thecommodore

You’re technically correct - the less you say to cops, the better, especially if the circumstances of the encounter are suspect. But you’re blaming the victim here. The cops had zero basis to continue the conversation after he refused to show them an ID, and the man then was instantly guilty of contempt of white cop by a black mam, which in some states can result in summary executuon.

Thankfully, here away north of the Mason-Dixon line, some semblance of sanity does prevail. We aren’t in the habit of executing our black people. Although given the uproar about our Somali immigrants from some years ago, maybe some people might.

284 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:22:39pm

re: #277 gwangung

Eh, ok.

285 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:25:36pm

My what big hears you have, Feral Girl!

Better to Ignore You With

286 Sc0rp  Aug 28, 2014 12:26:10pm

re: #274 wrenchwench

Of course I said “dox”. I’m not entirely a babe in the woods.

287 steve_davis  Aug 28, 2014 12:27:28pm

My assumption has always been that the cops have the right to ask you your name, pretty much in any public venue. Now, they don’t have the right to ask you for i.d., and if you are on a bicycle and they ask for a driver’s license, you can politely inform them you are not operating a motor vehicle, while handing them a library card or, as I once did, my Astronomical League card. And of course I’m white and middle class, so my working basis has always been to cede to some minor bullshit in order to avoid finding myself being ass-raped by a corrupt county sheriff, but maybe the lawyers here can chime in: don’t the police have some kind of constitutionally established right to ask you to identify yourself in encounters?

288 FemNaziBitch  Aug 28, 2014 12:29:13pm

re: #287 steve_davis

My assumption has always been that the cops have the right to ask you your name, pretty much in any public venue. Now, they don’t have the right to ask you for i.d., and if you are on a bicycle and they ask for a driver’s license, you can politely inform them you are not operating a motor vehicle, while handing them a library card or, as I once did, my Astronomical League card. And of course I’m white and middle class, so my working basis has always been to cede to some minor bullshit in order to avoid finding myself being ass-raped by a corrupt county sheriff, but maybe the lawyers here can chime in: don’t the police have some kind of constitutionally established right to ask you to identify yourself in encounters?

Good question. and do you have the right to refuse?

289 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 12:30:24pm

re: #287 steve_davis

My assumption has always been that the cops have the right to ask you your name, pretty much in any public venue. Now, they don’t have the right to ask you for i.d., and if you are on a bicycle and they ask for a driver’s license, you can politely inform them you are not operating a motor vehicle, while handing them a library card or, as I once did, my Astronomical League card. And of course I’m white and middle class, so my working basis has always been to cede to some minor bullshit in order to avoid finding myself being ass-raped by a corrupt county sheriff, but maybe the lawyers here can chime in: don’t the police have some kind of constitutionally established right to ask you to identify yourself in encounters?

Not in all jurisdictions.

en.wikipedia.org

290 Kragar  Aug 28, 2014 12:31:14pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

You can probably find a mini bottle at most liquor stores

291 blueraven  Aug 28, 2014 12:34:11pm

re: #287 steve_davis

My assumption has always been that the cops have the right to ask you your name, pretty much in any public venue. Now, they don’t have the right to ask you for i.d., and if you are on a bicycle and they ask for a driver’s license, you can politely inform them you are not operating a motor vehicle, while handing them a library card or, as I once did, my Astronomical League card. And of course I’m white and middle class, so my working basis has always been to cede to some minor bullshit in order to avoid finding myself being ass-raped by a corrupt county sheriff, but maybe the lawyers here can chime in: don’t the police have some kind of constitutionally established right to ask you to identify yourself in encounters?

No

copblock.org

292 klys  Aug 28, 2014 12:39:05pm

re: #278 Sc0rp

Well, I’m not trying to blame the victim. I think he she made a serious mistake, but I do think the cops were rapist was really unreasonable. But, at the end of the day, who has to pay for the man’s woman’s mistake? Not the police rapist. I think it is wrong for a lion to eat a person too, but if someone gets eaten by a lion because they made a mistake, I’ll take note of their mistake because it is in a lions nature to be a predator.

Nope, no victim-blaming here.

293 Franklin  Aug 28, 2014 12:40:36pm

re: #292 klys

Nope, no victim-blaming here.

If we were given allotments of updings to give per day, I would have just spent them all on that reply.

294 danarchy  Aug 28, 2014 12:42:18pm

re: #252 Pie-onist Overlord

Found a recipe that call for Kahlua, should I buy a whole bottle just for 2 Tbsp?

Most liquor stores have nips of Kahlua. That is probably just a little more than 2 tbsp. Although having Kahlua on hand is never a bad thing.

295 All-Consuming God-Monster One  Aug 28, 2014 12:43:04pm

re: #292 klys

Yyyyyeah, what was pretty Boys Will Be Boys right there. Ugh.

296 thedopefishlives  Aug 28, 2014 12:44:33pm

re: #292 klys

Nope, no victim-blaming here.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I love you.

297 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:46:24pm

It’s interesting looking through Reddit and a few other places…

298 klys  Aug 28, 2014 12:47:39pm

re: #294 danarchy

Most liquor stores have nips of Kahlua. That is probably just a little more than 2 tbsp. Although having Kahlua on hand is never a bad thing.

It’s true, sample size bottles are excellent for when you need just a bit of something for a recipe.

Like, oh, tequila for the guacamole.

299 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:52:14pm

re: #297 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s interesting looking through Reddit and a few other places…

In laws, eh?

300 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:54:43pm

re: #299 wrenchwench

In laws, eh?

and “official papers”…

301 wrenchwench  Aug 28, 2014 12:56:03pm

Nobody wants to have to prove anything to anyone, apparently.

302 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 12:56:25pm

re: #301 wrenchwench

heh…indeed.

303 jaunte  Aug 28, 2014 12:57:27pm

Child holding paring knife.

SD Police Say Tasing 8-Year-Old Native Girl Was Justified, Family Sues

“Four police officers responded to this…To a little girl who stands maybe only 4 feet tall. All you have to do is grab her arm and correct the situation. I feel that these guys must not have been in their right minds. At that age, children are very easily talked into changing their minds. I find it ridiculous because I just don’t see how this could happen.”

“In one of the articles, the police chief stated that their office was justified in what they did. They have batons and handguns, the police chief named off a number of things they could have used; this is someone who has no brains. One of the people involved in this entire situation was an instructor of the police training facility.”

304 klys  Aug 28, 2014 12:58:26pm

re: #301 wrenchwench

Nobody wants to have to prove anything to anyone, apparently.

Explains much.

305 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 1:04:53pm

oooh…found some more fun stuff. A post elsewhere about mall cops in Seattle…

306 KerFuFFler  Aug 28, 2014 1:30:39pm

re: #268 allegro

Vodka and really strong coffee.

And brown sugar for sweetening! Brown sugar adds a nice, rich note of extra flavor.

307 A Mom Anon  Aug 28, 2014 2:25:27pm

re: #146 Lidane

Great. Next maybe they could just keep the Uzis and similar weapons OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN. ALL CHILDREN. That might show some “responsible gun ownership” by example.

It ought to be the fucking law anyway for fuck’s sake.

We are not sane about this subject and I keep wondering who the hell has to get killed before the country grows the fuck up and stops this bullshit.

308 abolitionist  Aug 28, 2014 2:50:21pm

New Jersey woman who worked multiple jobs dies while napping in her car: cops

Maria Fernandes, 32, worked at Dunkin’ Donuts shops in Harrison, Newark, and Linden, taking naps in her car in between shifts. She succumbed to carbon monoxide and gasoline fumes after pulling in to a Wawa parking lot Monday, cops say.
BY Carol Kuruvilla
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Thursday, August 28, 2014, 2:05 PM
This story seems to trash the Protect and Serve meme. Here’s why:

The woman had pulled into a Wawa parking lot on Route 1 & 9 in Elizabeth at about 8:30 a.m. She apparently left the car running, cops said. She was found dead about eight hours later.

A Hazmat team had to monitor the fumes for four hours before it became safe enough for rescuers to enter the Kia.

Bold added. CO exposure at even low levels can be fatal, when that exposure is prolonged, but short-term exposure at such levels poses little risk.

Promptly breaking the glass and getting this woman out of the vehicle would have been the right thing to do. Rescuers likely would have had more exposure to CO and other toxins by smoking a ciggy while waiting for air purity lab reports.

309 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 2:56:42pm

re: #308 abolitionist

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.
Fire department personnel deal with CO poisoning all the time. That’s why they have air masks and oxygen tanks.

310 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 28, 2014 4:10:35pm

I’ll just park this here.

311 LoonRadio  Aug 28, 2014 9:16:05pm

I am ashamed. I grew up in St.Paul, and lived mere blocks from where this video was made (looks like about 5th and Cedar.) The “public building” is actually a skyway that connects many buildings downtown and acts as an elevated sidewalk. As such, it is considered a public space, and has benches where people can sit, much as a mall would. A man simply sitting on a bench in the skyway elicits no more curiosity than a man sitting on a bench in Rice Park, or in front of the Science Museum. He got hassled for no reason.

That said, two things.

This is not a recent video. The man and the cops are all wearing coats, something no self-respecting Minnesotan does between April and September. The view through the skyway window clearly shows bare trees and snow on the ground. If it were summer, many Minnesotans would also have taken the escalator down to street level, walked up 5th St. to Robert, turned left, and sat on the benches outside New Horizons. Not trying to say the victim should have done something else, rather to establish it was cold outside. My guess would be November or early December. Not sure which year.

“Minnesota nice” is a thing. In my experience, the first reaction a Minnesotan has to tragedy is to start cooking. We were among the first to accept Hmong refugees, and even elected the first Muslim to Congress. However, go on over to Mall of America sometime. Hordes of white people walking singly or in small groups, blacks and latinos and asians huddled along the periphery, many looking afraid. The one black kid at my high school once said in my hearing “You want me on your team, but not at the lunch table.” We Minnesotans are nice, we are accepting, but we are like people everywhere else.

312 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Aug 30, 2014 5:45:25am

re: #136 Sc0rp

Nope, not asian.

Dude. I’m a long-time reader/infrequent poster here. But I have to de-cloak to ask, what’s your point?

The post here that *you are commenting on* points up that racism leads to bad outcomes for black people in America. And when that racism intersects with the police, it can become pretty ugly if not deadly.

How is your experience—your single data point of experience—of relevance to what happens daily to millions of people in the US? Not to mention your bizarrely naive view that your prescription for dealing with the police maybe hasn’t already been tried before?

What are you trying to put forth here? That all black people need to do to avoid the incident above is follow your method?

Perhaps you should write a book, a primer for black people ‘splaining to them your insight into the matter.

The issue, Mr. Not-Quite-Middle-Aged, Racially-Ambiguous Person, is not that the people under discussion didn’t try hard enough or do the right thing to avoid the bad outcomes they experienced. The issue isn’t that they talked too much, or didn’t just stare at them. The issue is that IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT THEY DO. The likelihood that a bad outcome will occur is exponentially higher BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK OR BROWN.

We have a problem here in the good old USA. Remaining silent, as you suggest, isn’t going to solve it.


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