Video: President Obama’s Full Interview With Chuck Todd

“You’ve not said the word ‘Syria’ so far”
Politics • Views: 47,895

MSNBC

Here’s the full transcript of the President’s interview with NBC dunderhead Chuck Todd, and if you want to know why I refer to Todd that way, here’s a perfect example.

Obama mentioned Syria specifically four times before Chuck Todd blurted out, “You’ve not said the word, ‘Syria,’ so far in our conversation.”

Arrgh.

PRESIDENT OBAMA:

I’m preparing the country to make sure that we deal with a threat from ISIL. Keep in mind that this is something that we know how to do. We’ve been dealing with terrorist threats for quite some time. This administration has systematically dismantled Al Qaeda in the FATA. We just yesterday announced the fact that we had taken out the top leader of Al-Shabaab the terrorist— organization in Somalia.

ISIL poses a broader threat because of its territorial ambitions in Iraq and Syria.

[…]

PRESIDENT OBAMA:

But right. And I—I want everybody to understand that we have not seen any immediate intelligence about threats to the homeland from ISIL. That’s not what this is about. What it’s about is an organization that, if allowed to control significant amounts of territory, to amass more resources, more arms to attract more foreign fighters, including from areas like Europe, who have Europeans who have visas and then can travel to the United States unimpeded, that over time, that can be a serious threat to the homeland.

In— in the more immediate term, it’s an imm— it’s a threat to friends, partners in the region and is causing all kinds of hardship. And we’ve seen the savagery not just in terms of how they dealt with the two Americans that had been taken hostage but the killing of thousands of innocents in— in Iraq thousands of innocents in Syria, the kidnapping of women the complete disruption of entire villages.

[…]

PRESIDENT OBAMA:

Not yet. But they— they can evolve. And I was very specific at that time. What I said was, not every regional terrorist organization is automatically a threat to us that would call for a major offensive. But what is absolutely clear in ISIL, which started as Al Qaeda in Iraq and arose out of the U.S. invasion there and was contained because of the enormous efforts of our troops there then shifted to Syria, has metastasized, has grown.

[…]

PRESIDENT OBAMA:

Well, they’re not a JV team. But keep in mind that we anticipated some of these problems in the speech that I gave at West Point you know, several months ago, where I specifically said, our goal should not be to think that we can occupy every country where there’s a terrorist organization.

Our goal has to be to partner more effectively with governments that are committed to— pushing back against the kind of extremism that ISIL represents. And that’s going to require us to do things a little bit differently. We’re going to have to work smarter.

We’re going to have to train the military there more capably. We’ve got to do more effective diplomatic work to eliminate the the schism between Sunni and Shia that has been fueling so much of the violence in Syria, in Iraq. And so we put together a plan that is compatible with the kind of work that we’re doing now.

CHUCK TODD:

You’ve not said the word, “Syria,” so far in our conversation. Obviously, if you’re going to defeat ISIS, you have used very much stronger language. It’s gone through the week during your trip to Wales. You got to go to Syria in some form or another.

Notice that Obama’s last mention of Syria came two sentences before Todd made his fatuous statement.

If one of the traits of a good interviewer is listening to the answers given by the subject, Chuck Todd fails. Miserably.

UPDATE at 9/7/14 11:21:23 am by Charles Johnson

Jump to bottom

304 comments
1 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 10:43:08am

Well, we can at least say Chuck didn’t disappoint…

2 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Sep 7, 2014 10:49:42am

Cut him a break, he thought Obama was saying “cereal”.

3 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 10:51:40am

Romney - You never said Benghazi was an act of terror

Todd- You have not said the word Syria yet.

I guess President Obama speaks at a frequency that makes him inaudible to wingnuts.

4 blueraven  Sep 7, 2014 10:51:51am

What is with the extreme close-up shot on Obama’s face in almost the entire video?
I thought it was kind of creepy.

5 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 10:52:05am

ChuckTodd has his instructions, and he’s not going to deviate from them on his first day.

6 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 10:52:46am

Everything’s okay now, Danny. It’s over, it’s finally over.

7 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 10:56:00am

Chuck Todd intended his castigation of Barack Obama on Syria as a preplanned “Gotcha!”, IMO. Why did he still go with it after Obama had clearly made it unsuitable? I see two possibilities:

1. Todd had a script in his mind for the interview and was so focused on the script he didn’t really notice what Obama had said. That’s the charitable version.

2. Todd didn’t really care that Obama had already mentioned ‘Syria’. He was playing to the anti-Obama peanut gallery. This is the non-charitable version.

8 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 10:58:16am

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Never assign to malice that which is much more likely utter incompetency.

9 nines09  Sep 7, 2014 11:01:51am

Chuck Todd isn’t a journalist, he’s a director. He’s directing movies in his head. He’s got the plot all figured out. Reality will not sway that plot. This is the same blight that keeps idiots like Pat Buchanan on Sunday talk shows.

10 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:02:44am
11 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:03:12am

re: #8 William Barnett-Lewis

Never assign to malice that which is much more likely utter incompetency.

Incompetence is in play in the first explanation. Meet the Press this fall could well see the Peter Principal showcased for the nation’s political junkies.

12 lawhawk  Sep 7, 2014 11:07:10am

The sign of a good interviewer is that you listen to the people you’re interviewing.

It looks like he was just on cruise control and wasn’t paying attention to what President Obama was saying. That doesn’t bode well for Todd’s interviewing abilities.

Now, what’s the right wing view from the interview? They’ll focus on the Todd claim that Obama didn’t talk about Syria when he did (which goes to the right’s complete inability to follow facts as well as their dissembling ways).

Or, they’ll turn around and claim that if Obama did mention it, it strayed from what Todd was asking. Or that he didn’t say the right thing (which goes without saying).

13 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:07:19am
14 Shazam  Sep 7, 2014 11:08:20am

MSNBC Producer, Jerry Fuckwit: “Okay, Chuck, Obama is going to avoid any mention of Syria, so make sure to hit him on that.”

Obama: “Syria, Syria, Syria, Syria.”

Chuck Todd: “AHAH, President! What about Syria!”

Fuckwit: “NOOOOOOOOO.”

15 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:09:51am

The fact that Chuck Todd went with the “JV” comment is a pretty good indication that he’s just an overpaid right-wing troll.

16 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 11:11:21am
17 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:13:22am

re: #13 Dr. Matt

Goddammit, Blackface Redskins Fan

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

That man is basically saying “I don’t care about what’s politically correct, I’ll call minorities whatever I want! [n-word], [n-word], [n-word]!

18 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:14:27am

re: #16 darthstar

Back in the day I spent $2000 for a first generation pentium PC loaded with Windows 95.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:15:07am

re: #18 Dr. Matt

Back in the day I spent $2000 for a first generation pentium PC loaded with Windows 95.

That was a decent buy back in the day.

20 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:16:50am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

That was a decent buy back in the day.

Xmas “sale”…..at Sears.

21 Shazam  Sep 7, 2014 11:17:09am

re: #3 b.d.

Romney - You never said Benghazi was an act of terror

Todd- You have not said the word Syria yet.

I guess President Obama speaks at a frequency that makes him inaudible to wingnuts.

His frequency is far too low. He needs to go up to dog whistle range.

22 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 11:17:27am

Derp With A Bam!

23 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 11:17:48am
24 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 11:18:40am

Chuck and Chuckerer.

25 Shazam  Sep 7, 2014 11:18:50am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

You fill in the thought bubble.

“Gah, I’m such a hack.”

“Monay monay monaaaayyy.”

26 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 11:20:16am

re: #15 Dr. Matt

The fact that Chuck Todd went with the “JV” comment is a pretty good indication that he’s just an overpaid right-wing troll.

Chuck should know all about the JV squad. He and several others are now faking it as the varsity team.

All couldn’t even make it on a good CYO* league. But hey, they got Joe to wear a suit instead of those fleece sporty whatevers.

(Catholic Youth League…many times ran teams in area youth leagues at rec centers, YMCAs, etc.)

27 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 11:20:47am

SMUG ALERT

28 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 11:20:54am

re: #8 William Barnett-Lewis

Never assign to malice that which is much more likely utter incompetency.

ChuckTodd sees his MTP gig as a stepping stone to the Big Time at Fox News. He’s not going to blow his audition for Roger Ailes by paying attention to what his guest says.

He got the message out: Obama won’t talk about Syria.

That’s all he needed to do. I’m surprised he didn’t ask him if his Muslim faith was a hindrance in dealing with Islamic extremists.

29 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:22:20am

State Farm loses respect by me for putting Rob Schneider in the first fall commercial for them I’ve seen instead of Aaron Rogers. Yes, Rogers is the QB for the Green Bay Packers and I’m a Chicago Bears fan. But Rogers is also a good human being and a credit to football generally, whereas Schneider is an anti-vaxxer and thus a net-minus to humanity.

30 ausador  Sep 7, 2014 11:22:57am

Instantly muted of course… :(

So I followed it up with a nice link for him, lol.

31 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 11:23:12am

re: #18 Dr. Matt

Back in the day I spent $2000 for a first generation pentium PC loaded with Windows 95.

I’m not even going to tell you how much I paid for 4 megs of RAM to run OS/2.

32 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 11:23:48am

Anyone want to make a $100 bet that Chuck will be on Holy Joe Monday morning to receive praise?

33 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 11:24:25am

Todd is nothing more than a highly paid RW troll who gets face time on TV and is so impressed with his own “fame” he can’t even listen to what’s being said by someone else.

He should have stuck with grinding out election “statistics” instead. That only takes the little talent Chuckles possesses. Any first year college student could manipulate numbers the way he did.

34 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:24:34am

re: #27 Charles Johnson

SMUG ALERT

Thankfully its in New York. Smug isn’t as dangerous there, because the winds will blow it out to see.

/Answering one South Park reference with another.

35 lawhawk  Sep 7, 2014 11:25:07am

Meet the Press: The Desolation of Smug.

Meet the Press: Or How I Met Your Crazy Uncle

Meet the Press: Chuck Todd’s Excellent Misadventure

36 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:25:27am

re: #32 Dr. Matt

Anyone want to make a $100 bet that Chuck will be on Holy Joe Monday morning to receive praise?

Nope, I’ve got bills to pay.

37 lawhawk  Sep 7, 2014 11:25:57am

re: #31 Skip Intro

I wont tell you how much I spent to upgrade a TRS-80 from 16k to 48k.

38 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 11:26:30am

Ha!

39 b_sharp  Sep 7, 2014 11:26:35am

He looks like a Glenn Greenwald clone.

40 Varek Raith  Sep 7, 2014 11:28:03am

Chuck Todd; More hack than Diablo 3.

41 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 11:29:06am

I’m thinking Chuck Todd has been struck with the awesomeness of another famous Chuck and has decided to style himself a bit on that other Chucker.

42 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 11:30:26am

re: #41 ObserverArt

Doesn’t that other Chuck have an Award Winning tweet coming up today?

43 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:30:43am

re: #38 darthstar

This next graphic examines how Rachel Maddow should help Chuck Todd learn to do his job correctly. For our purposes, Rachel Maddow is Ed, and Chuck Todd is Eddy:

Rachel Maddow educating Chuck Todd

44 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 11:31:12am

re: #41 ObserverArt

I’m thinking Chuck Todd has been struck with the awesomeness of another famous Chuck and has decided to style himself a bit on that other Chucker.

Chuckles fans are called “Chuckolytes”.

Brrrrrr.

45 Dr Lizardo  Sep 7, 2014 11:32:26am

re: #44 Justanotherhuman

Chuckles fans are called “Chuckolytes”.

Brrrrrr.

“Chuckalos” is more appropriate.

When a bunch of them get together, it’s “The Gathering of the Chuckalos”.

46 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 11:33:25am
47 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 11:33:27am

If Chuck C. Johnson takes his fame all the way to Meet The Press to replace lesser Chuck Todd, the program will change its name to: I Am The Press.

48 nines09  Sep 7, 2014 11:36:33am

re: #47 ObserverArt

If Chuck C. Johnson takes his fame all the way to Meet The Press to replace lesser Chuck Todd, the program will change its name to: I Am The Press.

Or “Press The Meat Meet”.

49 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 11:37:24am

re: #23 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Kind of reminds me of Romney in the debate, right before President Obama said “Please…proceed…”

50 lawhawk  Sep 7, 2014 11:40:05am
51 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 11:40:23am

re: #47 ObserverArt

If Chuck C. Johnson takes his fame all the way to Meet The Press to replace lesser Chuck Todd, the program will change its name to: I Am The Press.

NBC could hire him and Jim Hoft so they could take turns interviewing each other every week. Have to clear it through McCain/Graham first though.

52 Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 7, 2014 11:44:28am

re: #47 ObserverArt

If Chuck C. Johnson takes his fame all the way to Meet The Press to replace lesser Chuck Todd, the program will change its name to: I Am The Press.

If they change the name to that they might as well hire Greenwald.

53 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 11:45:15am

Hahaha…these are the most horrible people…on both sides of the pond. It’s not about the people of the US, or the President, it’s always about themselves.

Chuck Todd’s Meet the Press: still trying too hard to make you care about DC

theguardian.com

“The best part of Chuck Todd’s allegedly pontification-proof Meet the Press debut on Sunday morning wasn’t when the new moderator let out an “ooh” as he sensed a Twitter-happy scooplet emerging from his interview with Barack Obama. Or when he introduced a new segment called “Who Needs Washington?”, with the declared intention of promoting “people over politics”. It wasn’t even when Todd told the president that “this wouldn’t be Meet the Press if I didn’t have a chart with me”.

“No, the most revealing moment of the beginning of the end of America’s longest-running television show arrived when Todd interrupted Joe Scarborough, America’s proudest pundit, as he went off-script - saying that “the American people” don’t care about Obama’s tan suit or his latest gaffe about Isis - and on to a tangent about Bill Clinton.

“That’s where you’re going?” Todd asked, before turning to John Stanton, the Washington bureau chief of Buzzfeed, America’s coolest political site.” More

54 Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 7, 2014 11:45:30am

How much derp could a derp Chuck derp?

55 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:46:29am

State Department releases graphic anti-ISIS video

The brutal mock ISIS recruitment video starts with a simple phrase: Run. Do not walk to ISIS land.

Then a body is thrown off a cliff.

Later a mosque is blown up, followed by a photo of a body with a severed head.

Complete with crucifixions, Muslims being whipped, shot in the head at point-blank range and thrown into ditches, the grisly video is the latest State Department effort to push back against ISIS recruiting efforts by highlighting the group’s barbaric nature.

The video, which uses the group’s own propaganda footage posted online, illustrates ISIS actions by advertising so-called “useful skills” ISIS sympathizers can learn if they join the group: blowing up mosques with Muslims inside, crucifying and executing Muslims and plundering public resources.

Entitled “Welcome to the ‘Islamic State’ land,” the video was posted on a dedicated YouTube channel. It was produced by the State Department’s Center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications, which seeks to combat ISIS extremist narrative on social media.

Due to the graphic nature of the video, I am not going to post it here. I am going to say that putting it up shows some guts from the State Department.

56 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 11:54:17am

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

State Department releases graphic anti-ISIS video

Due to the graphic nature of the video, I am not going to post it here. I am going to say that putting it up shows some guts from the State Department.

Those prone to violence and seeing romance in a violent “revolution” for an Islamic state of global import will continue to be recruited, no matter what, I fear. These aren’t people who believe in democratic processes but in simply taking what they desire, no matter the damage to life, property or resources.

57 Eigth Immortal  Sep 7, 2014 11:56:31am

re: #22 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Derp With A Bam!

We should bring this guy to the State Department Press briefings. He’ll orgasm himself to death.

58 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 11:57:51am

re: #56 Justanotherhuman

Those prone to violence and seeing romance in a violent “revolution” for an Islamic state of global import will continue to be recruited, no matter what, I fear. These aren’t people who believe in democratic processes but in simply taking what they desire, no matter the damage to life, property or resources.

Yeah, many of them will. But if it makes a few young men think twice, makes them see ISIS as the dead end it really is, then the video is worth making.

It also serves an important purpose for the DoS in terms of the press and those who oppose ISIS. The message sent is “We’re not clueless or squeamish, we’re putting up hard-hitting stuff and working to counter the enemy’s media offensive”.

59 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 12:01:40pm

re: #57 Eigth Immortal

We should bring this guy to the State Department Press briefings. He’ll orgasm himself to death.

He’d probably beg off on that assignment until the next GOP administration, when he’d make the big bucks asking their pre-written questions ala Jeff Gannon.

60 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 12:02:48pm

[todd] But that woulda been such a baddass line if Obama hadn’t mentioned Syria, that f*cker. [/todd]

61 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:03:40pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

I also think that the sarcastic tone of the State Department video is a great tone to use to counter the kind of torture and murder pornography ISIS uses to recruit. What is needed is withering words to make ‘evil boners’ shrivel.

62 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 12:04:10pm

That’s so depressing.

63 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:05:28pm

re: #57 Eigth Immortal

We should bring this guy to the State Department Press briefings. He’ll orgasm himself to death.

Yeah, but would you want the job of cleaning up the wingnut semen he’d leave behind? Hell, the cleanup team would need biohazard suits!

64 StephenMeansMe  Sep 7, 2014 12:05:35pm
What’s the rationale for this election? I’m going to be a little cynical here. Three billion dollars, I would argue, is being decided to see if it’s Harry Reid or Mitch McConnell that’s in charge of gridlock in the Senate. (LAUGH)

At this point I read “(LAUGH)” as a donkey braying. What a smarmy prick.

65 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:08:22pm

re: #64 StephenMeansMe

At this point I read “(LAUGH)” as a donkey braying. What a smarmy prick.

So which Democrat was braying?

/mascot humor

66 Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 7, 2014 12:08:42pm

But the US navy is smaller today than it was 100 years ago.

67 i_a_c  Sep 7, 2014 12:09:17pm

Christ. Did Chuck just intend on reading that scripted line no matter what the president did or did not say?

Sadly, that was the peak of Chuck Todd’s stead as MTP host. It’s only going to get worse.

68 A Mom Anon  Sep 7, 2014 12:11:03pm

A group of middle school kids with a semester of civics classes could produce a more thoughtful, intelligent and informative program than Toddykins could with a room full of his fellow pundits. Jesus that was horrible.

69 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 12:11:37pm

re: #12 lawhawk

The sign of a good interviewer is that you listen to the people you’re interviewing.

It looks like he was just on cruise control and wasn’t paying attention to what President Obama was saying. That doesn’t bode well for Todd’s interviewing abilities.

Now, what’s the right wing view from the interview? They’ll focus on the Todd claim that Obama didn’t talk about Syria when he did (which goes to the right’s complete inability to follow facts as well as their dissembling ways).

Or, they’ll turn around and claim that if Obama did mention it, it strayed from what Todd was asking. Or that he didn’t say the right thing (which goes without saying).

This is what is wrong with our country! For gawds sake people. Doesn’t Chuck Todd have any education at all. Pathetic. Pathetic. Pathetic.

The right wing wants to gut entitlements. They have convinced Chuck Todd that he must come to their aid, because Obama is a failure and we are going broke. Must not raise taxes to support old people. Right Chuck.

70 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:12:46pm

re: #66 Iwouldprefernotto

But the US navy is smaller today than it was 100 years ago.

I was going to reply with: “Leave Mitt Romney alone! Obama beat him in 2012 and he’s not running again!”

But then Mitt was on Fox News Sunday today, so Romney jibs are in season at the moment.

71 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:20:36pm

re: #69 missliberties

We are going broke, and social spending does need to be reduced. But canned performances like Chuck Todd’s do not make the case for that. All they do is make Chuck Todd look like an idiot.

72 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 12:22:38pm

Maureen Dowd outdoes herself in the WTF department in her column today.

Aptly, clicking “Next In Opinion” at the bottom of the page takes the reader to “When Whites Just Don’t Get It, Part 2.”

73 Kid A  Sep 7, 2014 12:23:16pm

re: #22 jaunte

74 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sep 7, 2014 12:24:12pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

I can’t begin to understand why the decision-making yahoos at MSNBC chose Chuck Todd over just about anyone, but over Maddow in particular. Compare their educational backgrounds, for a start.

Aside from that, even if she were stricken by some horribly unfortunate hormonal malady, there’s absolutely no way she could grow facial hair that looks as stupid and smarmy as Chuck’s.

75 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 12:24:31pm

Can we get rid of this right wing flunkie hack already?

CHUCK TODD:

I got to ask, so— so during that vacation, you made the statement on Foley. You went and golfed. Do you— do you want that back?

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 12:24:43pm

Totally OT, but DirecTV has a free HBO/Cinemax weekend, so I’m DVDing some movies for MrBWS since he’s off restoring power in Michigan.
I just watched “This Is 40” (but didn’t record it) and am crying laughing over Melissa McCarthy’s epic outtake rant during the closing credits.
Fortunately, the outtake is available on YouTube.

Youtube Video

77 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 12:25:39pm

Is it just me or does Chuck Todd look like Glenn Greenwald in that screenshot?

78 Romantic Heretic  Sep 7, 2014 12:26:09pm

re: #50 lawhawk

My wife, who had her own experiences with a monster of a stepfather, said it was a sure thing he had done the same to his others daughters.

79 Kid A  Sep 7, 2014 12:26:26pm

Maddow would have been an excellent choice as the host of MTP. Instead we have this smarmy, goatee-wearing smart ass.

80 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:27:03pm

re: #74 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I can’t begin to understand why the decision-making yahoos at MSNBC chose Chuck Todd over just about anyone, but over Maddow in particular. Compare their educational backgrounds, for a start.

Aside from that, even if she were stricken by some horribly unfortunate hormonal malady, there’s absolutely no way she could grow facial hair that looks as stupid and smarmy as Chuck’s.

Maddow is too much of a bete noir to many conservatives to be considered for a program that wanted to win some right-of-center market share. It wasn’t a decision about talent, it was a decision based on marketing.

81 Flounder  Sep 7, 2014 12:27:57pm

Dammit I need more power tools, stat!

82 b_sharp  Sep 7, 2014 12:28:14pm

re: #77 missliberties

Is it just me or does Chuck Todd look like Glenn Greenwald in that screenshot?

littlegreenfootballs.com

83 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 12:30:56pm

I hope he isn’t driving his invisible probability wave car on the public roads.

84 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 12:31:26pm

re: #74 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I can’t begin to understand why the decision-making yahoos at MSNBC chose Chuck Todd over just about anyone, but over Maddow in particular. Compare their educational backgrounds, for a start.

Aside from that, even if she were stricken by some horribly unfortunate hormonal malady, there’s absolutely no way she could grow facial hair that looks as stupid and smarmy as Chuck’s.

Maddow and others like her might ask real questions of the guests, making them mad and refusing to return, or refusing to appear at all.

I don’t know exactly when this started, but I first noticed it on Fox with Hannity and Colmes, where Republicans would only be “interviewed” by Hannity, and non-Republicans by Colmes. I thought that was complete bullshit, but it caught on.

The neutering of the tv press is all but complete now, except for dusty corners where few viewers go.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 12:31:49pm

re: #81 Flounder

Dammit I need more power tools, stat!

Throws sonic screwdriver to Flounder…

86 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 12:31:56pm

re: #77 missliberties

Is it just me or does Chuck Todd look like Glenn Greenwald in that screenshot?

Disturbingly so.

87 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sep 7, 2014 12:31:59pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

Never heard of that show or Melissa McCarthy before, but I enjoyed that. It seemed improvised. I deeply want to believe it was improvised. Either way, her ability to stay in character while the others were losing it was brilliant.

88 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:32:29pm

re: #83 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I hope he isn’t driving his invisible probability wave car on the public roads.

Categorized as “Deepak Chopra DERP” and circular filed.

89 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 12:33:48pm

re: #83 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I hope he isn’t driving his invisible probability wave car on the public roads.

Invisible Probability Waves is a great band name. I wonder if Deepak just pulled that out of his ass?

90 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 12:33:52pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

We are going broke, and social spending does need to be reduced. But canned performances like Chuck Todd’s do not make the case for that. All they do is make Chuck Todd look like an idiot.

Yet the news is not the OBSTRUCTIONIST GOP, that refused to pass the American Jobs Act (paid for) or refusing to address tax reform. The News is not the OBSTRUCTIONIST GOP that was willing to bankrupt our government by shutting it down for the ‘optics’ of making Obama look bad, because Obamacare is evil, yet somehow magically working to reduce deficit.

Everything the GOP obstructs is Obama’s fault. Okay. But why didn’t Obama mention Syria in Todd’s interview. And we wonder why nothing gets done in Congress. It makes me freaking crazy. I can’t stand it.

91 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 12:33:56pm

re: #87 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Never heard of that show or Melissa McCarthy before, but I enjoyed that. It seemed improvised. I deeply want to believe it was improvised. Either way, her ability to stay in character while the others were losing it was brilliant.

McCarthy went way off script, but totally in keeping with her raunchy persona.
It was great!

92 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 12:37:45pm

re: #89 Skip Intro

I’m guessing he doesn’t accept Invisible Probability Waves in payment from his publisher.

93 Belafon  Sep 7, 2014 12:38:41pm

re: #92 jaunte

Only if they are observed first.

94 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 12:40:57pm

I thought I caught someone here mentioning the Cleveland Pittsburgh NFL game. I just want to know what the Browns coach talked about at half time? Now tied and it looks like a complete turnaround. Interesting.

95 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:41:44pm

re: #84 Skip Intro

Maddow and others like her might ask real questions of the guests, making them mad and refusing to return, or refusing to appear at all.

I don’t know exactly when this started, but I first noticed it on Fox with Hannity and Colmes, where Republicans would only be “interviewed” by Hannity, and non-Republicans by Colmes. I thought that was complete bullshit, but it caught on.

The neutering of the tv press is all but complete now, except for dusty corners where few viewers go.

Modern day spin doctoring and campaign management relies very heavily on control of what the politician or candidate says and who asks her or him questions. This is so because:

A. Many such people aren’t great leaders, they’re just party hacks and that because clear if they are subject to too many hostile questions.

B. It is far too easy nowadays to twist a complex statement into some sort of ‘gaffe’ or ‘gotcha’. We’ve all seen video clips taken out of context in that way, and so have the campaign managers. Hence they want to make sure the interviewee gets asked questions that can be answered as much as possible with canned sound bytes that sound good to their intended audience and that are hard to twist into a ‘gaffe’ or ‘gotcha’.

96 jaunte  Sep 7, 2014 12:43:10pm
“…I’ve said this before, Chuck. You know, if you asked me back in August what I want for my birthday, I’d say, ‘Give me a loyal opposition that has some common sense and is willing to work on some basic issues that didn’t used to be partisan issues.’

It didn’t use to be that building roads, bridges, improving our airports, improving our water systems, reducing traffic, those didn’t used to be partisan issues. They have become partisan issues, because you’ve got a small portion of the Republican party that is fixated simply on dismantling government or making sure that we don’t get anything done around here. And that’s why elections matter.”

97 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 12:44:16pm

re: #90 missliberties

Republicans are willing to address tax reform and so are Democrats. But neither party is willing to address that issue on any terms save its own, and I do not expect that to change in the next few years.

98 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 12:45:24pm

Good God Chuck, not getting any luck on Grindr?

99 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 12:45:41pm
100 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 12:47:07pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

[My ears are burning - I’m being dissed by some climate change deniers, which really hurts my tender feelings.]

Now, now, Charles. I’m sure it is going to work out for the best.

101 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 12:47:33pm
102 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 12:48:43pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

Hey to Donte for me.

103 Belafon  Sep 7, 2014 12:49:14pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I believe Democrats have offered changes to taxes on business, the middle class, and changes to SS in order to get Republicans to agree to tax increases on the upper brackets and capital gains. Republicans want to privatize SS and further lower taxes on the wealthy. It’s not both sides. The only compromise the Republicans are willing to off is their way or nothing.

104 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 12:49:19pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And Upchuck is wearing his big journalism award. How sweet…

105 retired cynic  Sep 7, 2014 12:49:20pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

Gag.

106 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 12:50:27pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

All of which makes the existence of these shows pointless. Just dispense with the pretense and run videos made by the guest’s pr firm instead. You won’t even need to pay a moderator, because there will be nothing to moderate.

107 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 12:53:05pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Obviously high, wearing bling and flashing gang signs.

108 ObserverArt  Sep 7, 2014 12:53:17pm

re: #106 Skip Intro

All of which makes the existence of these shows pointless. Just dispense with the pretense and run videos made by the guest’s pr firm instead. You won’t even need to pay a moderator, because there will be nothing to moderate.

It’s canned meat news. Good for a long time. Open and add water and see if you can get some life into it. Heat and eat.

109 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 12:54:00pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Republicans are willing to address tax reform and so are Democrats. But neither party is willing to address that issue on any terms save its own, and I do not expect that to change in the next few years.

So, how do you feel about corporations who move to lower, or no, tax countries to avoid paying their fair share of taxes in the US?

I avoid giving them any of my money, as much as possible, that is.

The greed at the top is ruining this country, and “tax reform” which will curb it is a joke. Why should I, as a consumer, pay for these people to live large at the expense of our society while so many suffer.

They don’t even want to pay a living wage—so as far as I’m concerned, they can go fuck themselves and I’ll find alternatives to their products or services. I don’t mind paying my “fair share” for anything, including taxes, but overpaying and not seeing people I know who work for these corps not being able to make it just burns my ass.

110 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 12:54:19pm

re: #83 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I hope he isn’t driving his invisible probability wave car on the public roads.

His full name is Deepak Chopra©®™

(Computer’s acting goofy today, must reboot.)

111 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:01:35pm

re: #109 Justanotherhuman

No Comment.

112 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:05:48pm
113 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:07:13pm

re: #106 Skip Intro

All of which makes the existence of these shows pointless. Just dispense with the pretense and run videos made by the guest’s pr firm instead. You won’t even need to pay a moderator, because there will be nothing to moderate.

That wouldn’t sell as well and it would risk highlighting to the viewing public that they ultimately are partially to blame for the situation. If party bases were less dogmatic, politicians would have to watch every word, fearful of accusations of heresy.

114 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 1:07:42pm

So, how do you feel about corporations who move to lower, or no, tax countries to avoid paying their fair share of taxes in the US?”

I think tax reform is a hugely important issue to discuss. Which is of course why Chuck went on about why Obama didn’t say Syria. Obviously Obama can’t lead, when Chuck can’t hear.

Good Lord. We have to fight Putin’s propaganda? Now Chuck Todd’s? Why is it different? They are both lying.

115 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 1:09:11pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

So, does this mean that Reddit doesn’t believe “the devil made me do it” excuse, either?

Gawd, the rationalization is supreme from these jerks.

116 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:10:25pm
117 blueraven  Sep 7, 2014 1:10:47pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

So he went to the premier of the new Atlas Shrugged movie yet has nothing to say about, you know, the actual film?

Must be a real super stinker, else he would be hyperventilating over it.

118 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:12:25pm
119 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 1:14:42pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Republicans are willing to address tax reform and so are Democrats. But neither party is willing to address that issue on any terms save its own, and I do not expect that to change in the next few years.

Max Baucus and Dave Camp had worked some things out re: tax reform. Yet the OBSTRUCTIONIST GOP pretended like it didn’t exist. Which is why Baucus said fuck it and went to China and why Dave Camp said fuck it and is not running again.

So who runs the show? The committee chairs in the House. The ones from Texas. The ones who don’t even fucking believe in government because ‘taxes’ destroys capitalism, initiative and freedom. Look how well that is working in Kansas. !! Oh wait. The gut taxes platform is not working in Kansas. or anywhere else.

120 teleskiguy  Sep 7, 2014 1:15:12pm
121 nines09  Sep 7, 2014 1:17:00pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

WTF is that? The new Flava Flav wanna be? hack.

122 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 1:22:42pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

They probably have no prohibition against revenge porn, either,

You could probably make a decent case for Reddit aiding and abetting the deeply flawed ethics-less positions of many of their users.

I mean, it isn’t Reddit’s fault, as they make perfectly clear, having only “hard” policies, which protect their own “integrity”—such as it is.

123 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:27:15pm

And following the Bears losing a 23-20 (OT) faceplant of a season opener, we come to the Cowboys-49ers game.

124 Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 7, 2014 1:29:18pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

And following the Bears losing a 23-20 (OT) faceplant of a season opener, we come to the Cowboys-49ers game.

sorry.

Would like to see the Cowboys lose.

125 lawhawk  Sep 7, 2014 1:31:01pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

126 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 1:33:42pm

re: #119 missliberties

The gut taxes platform is not working in Kansas. or anywhere else.

It must have come as a total surprise to the GOP that slashing taxes didn’t magically evaporate the requirement to spend on infrastructure and basic services.

Kansas Governor Sam Brownback and his state legislature have embarked on a wonderful natural experiment. Once again we are testing the question: Can tax cuts pay for themselves? The answer- yet again- is a resounding no.

Except this is fiscal snake oil. Over the past few years, Brownback and the Kansas legislature have gone all-in on this theory. The good news: They have left little room for ambiguity (though Brownback and his defenders are scrambling to find some, given the dismal results of their ambitious experiment).

Keep in mind that these are actual year-over-year declines in revenues, not shortfalls in projected revenue. And they came at a time when the national economy was recovering (albeit slowly) and most other states were enjoying strong pickups in tax collections.

And that brings us to the bottom line. Since the first round of tax cuts, job growth in Kansas has lagged the U.S. economy. So have personal incomes. While more small businesses were formed, many of them were merely individuals taking advantage of the newly tax-free status of those firms by redefining themselves as businesses.

One can argue whether cutting taxes is a good thing. One can argue about whether government is too big. One can even argue about whether low taxes increase business activity. But one cannot credibly argue that tax cuts increase revenue or even pay for themselves. They didn’t for Ronald Reagan. They don’t for Sam Brownback. They won’t for the next politician who tries—whether he (or she) is in Washington, D.C. or in some state capital.

Conservatives really are malignantly fucktarded.

127 urbanmeemaw  Sep 7, 2014 1:36:04pm

“Ready for my closeup, Mr. Ailes”

Ready for my closeup, Mr. Ailes.

128 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:42:57pm
129 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:43:03pm

re: #120 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

I recognize Johnny Cash and Kris Kristopherson, but who are those other two guys.

130 Kragar  Sep 7, 2014 1:43:21pm

Chuck “But why male models?” Todd

131 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:43:51pm
132 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 1:44:26pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

I recognize Johnny Cash and Kris Kristopherson, but who are those other two guys.

Willie and Waylon!

133 Kid A  Sep 7, 2014 1:44:44pm
134 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 1:45:20pm

Just remember, boys and girls, there is no privacy guarantee in the new technological world.

Ten or so years ago, most people had ever heard the word “hack”. Back in the “stone age”, you had more privacy writing a letter and posting it and making a phone call on your landline than you do with emails and current cell phones.

I don’t fear violation of my privacy by the govt as much as I do by hackers.

135 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:45:25pm

re: #125 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

136 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:45:57pm

re: #132 Backwoods_Sleuth

Willie and Waylon!

Thanks.

137 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 1:46:13pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Whoa Aqualung!

138 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:47:50pm

re: #134 Justanotherhuman

Just remember, boys and girls, there is no privacy guarantee in the new technological world.

Ten Seventeen or so years ago, most people had ever heard the word “hack”. Back in the “stone age”, you had more privacy writing a letter and posting it and making a phone call on your landline than you do with emails and current cell phones.

I don’t fear violation of my privacy by the govt as much as I do by hackers.

Edited for accuracy. Most people had heard of hacking by 2004 and email was an established concept.

139 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 1:49:06pm

re: #137 De Kolta Chair

Whoa Aqualung!

Featuring Charles C. Johnson as ‘Locomotive Breath’.

140 Bear  Sep 7, 2014 1:49:35pm

re: #134 Justanotherhuman

Way back timewise in some locations you would call for a HACK when you wanted a taxi cab.

141 stpaulbear  Sep 7, 2014 1:52:02pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

…not to mention that gansta bling with the dollar sign that he’s wearing around his neck. Total ghetto.

142 Charles Johnson  Sep 7, 2014 1:53:27pm
143 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 1:53:40pm

re: #141 stpaulbear

…not to mention that gansta bling with the dollar sign that he’s wearing around his neck. Total ghetto.

Next week he’ll discover the backwards-worn baseball cap look. Derp satori!

144 PhillyPretzel  Sep 7, 2014 1:55:16pm

re: #143 De Kolta Chair

Or the side ways style. /only kidding

145 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 1:57:19pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Edited for accuracy. Most people had heard of hacking by 2004 and email was an established concept.

OK, I had originally put 20, but thought that was a bit too far back. Although I was onliine in 2004, I still had not heard the word, “hack”, although it was probably pretty common among those who were more familiar w/technology than I was.

As with any technology, the more common it becomes, with more users, the more open it becomes for criminal activity.

146 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 2:00:28pm

re: #141 stpaulbear

…not to mention that gansta bling with the dollar sign that he’s wearing around his neck. Total ghetto.

Make no mistake about it, when Chuck C isn’t singing Miley Cyrus songs, he’s singing rap.

147 Frenchy  Sep 7, 2014 2:02:43pm

If there is one political buzzword that I’d like to see die a quick death it has to be “optics”.

148 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 2:06:50pm

No war on women? And how is this not an example of the State of PA interfering in the private decision of a parent and her child?

Pa. Mom Sentenced for Giving Abortion Pills to Teen Daughter

Read more: nbcphiladelphia.com

149 Jayleia  Sep 7, 2014 2:09:13pm

re: #147 Frenchy

I don’t want that buzzword to die quickly…I want to go all Torquemada on it first.

150 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 2:09:40pm

re: #144 PhillyPretzel

Or the side ways style. /only kidding

CCJ seen leaving Circus Circus

151 Bear  Sep 7, 2014 2:10:30pm

Just thinking about certain words that have different meanings. For example the word POKE. “give a poke”, “paper poke”, “miners poke”, “pig in a poke”, and so on.

152 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 2:11:53pm

re: #151 Bear

Just thinking about certain words that have different meanings. For example the word POKE. “give a poke”, “paper poke”, “miners poke”, “pig in a poke”, and so on.

I’ve always thought the word house sounds nothing like a house. For some reason, that’s been on my mind since at least third grade.

153 Rightwingconspirator  Sep 7, 2014 2:12:23pm

Anyone watching the California Governors election?

Kashkari struggles to hit partisan balance in debate with Gov. Brown

To Californians who shun Republicans, gubernatorial hopeful Neel Kashkari takes pains to show he’d break with party tradition if elected: He backs same-sex marriage, federal action against global warming and drivers licenses for immigrants who are in the country illegally.

At the same time, he tries to reassure Republicans that he’d uphold conservative values. He promises to fight “union bosses,” stop what he calls reckless spending on a $68-billion bullet train and slash environmental rules that can hamstring business.

It’s a dilemma that bedevils not just Kashkari, but all of the party’s statewide candidates for the foreseeable future: how to be just enough of a Republican, but not too much.

154 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 2:12:51pm

re: #150 De Kolta Chair

CCJ seen leaving Circus Circus

[Embedded image]

Is that supposed to attract females? Total fail…

155 PhillyPretzel  Sep 7, 2014 2:13:15pm

re: #151 Bear

re: #152 De Kolta Chair

There are quite a few words that have several meanings. thefreedictionary.com

156 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 2:14:19pm

re: #153 Rightwingconspirator

Anyone watching the California Governors election?

Kashkari struggles to hit partisan balance in debate with Gov. Brown

Sounds like the “libertarian” alternative.

157 Stanley Sea  Sep 7, 2014 2:15:26pm

re: #152 De Kolta Chair

I’ve always thought the word house sounds nothing like a house. For some reason, that’s been on my mind since at least third grade.

HA. Mine was Tree.

158 Rightwingconspirator  Sep 7, 2014 2:18:54pm

re: #156 Justanotherhuman

I don’t think Kashkari is a libertarian.
Interesting how well Gov browns fiscal conservative credentials undermine Kashkari, except perhaps the bullet train that essentially looks (rightly or wrongly) like a great concept that they are doing all wrong.

But he’s not progressive enough by far & Jerry is not really vulnerable on the right. His vulnerability such as it is lives on the left. But that expressed itself in budget negotiations not the primary.

159 Bear  Sep 7, 2014 2:24:47pm

re: #155 PhillyPretzel</e

Yes and when the word in one region means something different than in another real confusion or problems may result. Years ago a Ranger at the Petersburg Battlefield told me about haw he carried a vet, who fought there, around the site. I thought the pore vet was crippled. What was meant was that the Ranger showed the vet around the site. Carry me back to Virginia=take me back, carry to the car.

160 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 2:26:58pm

re: #158 Rightwingconspirator

I don’t think Kashkari is a libertarian.
Interesting how well Gov browns fiscal conservative credentials undermine Kashkari, except perhaps the bullet train that essentially looks (rightly or wrongly) like a great concept that they are doing all wrong.

But he’s not progressive enough by far & Jerry is not really vulnerable on the right. His vulnerability such as it is lives on the left. But that expressed itself in budget negotiations not the primary.

“Liberal” on social issues; conservative on fiscal ones—expressed very often by libertarians. He even describes himself as a free marketeer. I refer to him as “Cash ‘n’ Carry”.

161 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 2:31:41pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

And following the Bears losing a 23-20 (OT) faceplant of a season opener, we come to the Cowboys-49ers game.

Better than Green Bay managed in Seattle. TT & MM’s incompetence is showing from game one this year.

162 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sep 7, 2014 2:32:56pm

re: #120 teleskiguy

Next time you hear some jackass talking about the horrors of obscure rap lyrics being somehow at the root of societal problems, please consider the works of these four guys in particular.

163 Jayleia  Sep 7, 2014 2:37:36pm

Y’know, I bet Obama was probably thinking something like this during the interview Youtube Video

164 Shiplord Kirel  Sep 7, 2014 2:38:36pm

re: #162 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Next time you hear some jackass talking about the horrors of obscure rap lyrics being somehow at the root of societal problems, please consider the works of these four guys in particular.

But they’re white!

165 Stanley Sea  Sep 7, 2014 2:39:10pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

And following the Bears losing a 23-20 (OT) faceplant of a season opener, we come to the Cowboys-49ers game.

166 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 2:41:20pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

And the store is hoping he’ll grab a couple of 12 packs on his way out.

Hey, it’s Lite!

167 Weet  Sep 7, 2014 2:45:37pm

Todd’s face looks like he’s been overtaken by some smug, self-important demon. I guess that’s what happens when you are vacuous.

168 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 3:02:29pm

MrBWS just called. He’s in Redford, Mich., getting ready to turn on the lights for a lot of people.
Hoping he comes home soon…

169 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 3:03:54pm

I found a wonderful silver/gray painted wooden plaque, about 16x16” with the British WWII slogan, “Keep Calm and Carry On” (w/crown), as in the original, in white type at a local thrift store for $2.

Mounted it above my kitchen sink. : )

170 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:10:52pm
171 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 3:18:03pm

re: #158 Rightwingconspirator

I found the last part of that article made the critical point:

The governor took credit Thursday for closing the state’s $26-billion deficit and accelerating its debt repayments — including what he called the “credit card” bills run up by California’s last Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Schwarzenegger is one of the few Republicans to have won statewide office in the 20 years since Gov. Pete Wilson’s campaign against illegal immigration sparked a surge in Latino and Asian voter registration. The party has never recovered.

But Schwarzenegger was an anomaly — a Hollywood superstar who won office in the extraordinary circumstances of the 2003 gubernatorial recall.

For Kashkari, the problem “isn’t just articulating more moderate stands on very specific issues using some kind of checklist,” said Darry Sragow, a veteran Democratic strategist based in Los Angeles. “It really is a more fundamental tonal problem that the party has. And that, he cannot fix by himself.”

Some actions can’t really be lived down. Most likely the Republican Party is going to be permanently irrelevant in California no matter what any Republicans in the US do. The stain left by Pete Wilson is just not going to wear off, especially since Democrats can always call attention to it by pointing to nasty things said by Republicans in other states.

Honestly, I think the GOP should stop contesting statewide offices in California, shut down its state party, and clear the field for some sort of alternative to the Democrats to take shape in the Golden State.

It’s a crying shame that Ronald Reagan state is no longer friendly to his party, but that’s just the way it is.

172 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 3:19:47pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Give Chuck a corncob pipe and ditch the fur and he either has the Popeye or Mammy Yokum look down. I can’t decide which.

173 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:20:11pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I found the last part of that article made the critical point:

Some actions can’t really be lived down. Most likely the Republican Party is going to be permanently irrelevant in California no matter what any Republicans in the US do. The stain left by Pete Wilson is just not going to wear off, especially since Democrats can always call attention to it by pointing to nasty things said by Republicans in other states.

Honestly, I think the GOP should stop contesting statewide offices in California, shut down its state party, and clear the field for some sort of alternative to the Democrats to take shape in the Golden State.

It’s a crying shame that Ronald Reagan state is no longer friendly to his party, but that’s just the way it is.

I like how your solution to the fact that “Democrats can call attention to it by pointing to nasty things said by Republicans in other states” is not to have Republicans stop saying nasty shit but instead to just forget about Republicans in CA, since it’s not a friendly environment to them.

That’s funny.

174 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 3:25:57pm

re: #173 klys

I like how your solution to the fact that “Democrats can call attention to it by pointing to nasty things said by Republicans in other states” is not to have Republicans stop saying nasty shit but instead to just forget about Republicans in CA, since it’s not a friendly environment to them.

That’s funny.

It’s a tacit admission that nationally the GOP is an unrepentantly racist organization.

175 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:26:31pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

It’s a tacit admission that nationally the GOP is an unrepentantly racist organization.

Rah rah go team GOP!

///

176 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 3:27:23pm

re: #175 klys

Rah rah go team GOP!

///

Winning, no matter what, is the end goal!
///

177 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 3:27:54pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

Don’t give up yet. Fresno mayor Ashley Swearengin may just win the state Controller’s office. If she doesn’t, she’s got a lock on a position at Fox News.

Here are her qualifications:

178 Lidane  Sep 7, 2014 3:29:16pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

You realize the problems in the Republican party run deeper than just saying nasty things, right? And that those problems extend far beyond California?

It’s not just that Republicans say nasty things. It’s that they’re proud of being ignorant, mean, vindictive, and aggressively, terminally stupid. The party openly runs on anger and resentment, and on punishing the “other”, whether it’s minorities, or women, or LGBT citizens, or the poor, or the undocumented workers that prop up several industries in this country. They actively pass laws that screw everyone else over so their rich donors don’t have to pay a few extra bucks in taxes, and they work hard to keep people from voting so they can maintain power.

Those truths run far deeper than someone in California quoting a nasty remark from a Republican in a different state. Your party is marginalizing itself in a quest for greater and greater purity.

179 allegro  Sep 7, 2014 3:30:53pm

NFL Opening day of the regular season… Washington @ Houston Texans… even my dogs had their little Texans jerseys on for the football party at our place (haven’t found/made one for Blossom the Destroyer yet). A most excellent game with the Texans defense under a new coach performing at a damn near super-human level. SO much fun watching them sack the WA QB, block kicks, force turn-overs…

And then in the 3rd quarter, a sudden storm took out the electricity.

The End.

180 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 3:31:43pm

re: #173 klys

I like how your solution to the fact that “Democrats can call attention to it by pointing to nasty things said by Republicans in other states” is not to have Republicans stop saying nasty shit but instead to just forget about Republicans in CA, since it’s not a friendly environment to them.

That’s funny.

I’d prefer that Republicans in other states not shoot their mouths off like they sometimes do, but trying to police thousands of officerholders spread out over huge distances is ultimately a fool’s errand. Illegal immigration provokes fear and anger in many people and in some people that anger finds its home in “Oh no, brown people!” sentiment.

181 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:33:35pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

I’d prefer that Republicans in other states not shoot their mouths off like they sometimes do, but trying to police thousands of officerholders spread out over huge distances is ultimately a fool’s errand. Illegal immigration provokes fear and anger in many people and in some people that anger finds its home in “Oh no, brown people!” sentiment.

Keep telling yourself that your team isn’t committing itself to courting the racist, bigot vote.

At any point, do you ever look around and realize you don’t want to be associated with people like that? Or is it ok because they treat you fine as a white, Christian male?

182 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 3:34:50pm

re: #179 allegro

NFL Opening day of the regular season… Washington @ Houston Texans… even my dogs had their little Texans jerseys on for the football party at our place (haven’t found/made one for Blossom the Destroyer yet). A most excellent game with the Texans defense under a new coach performing at a damn near super-human level. SO much fun watching them sack the WA QB, block kicks, force turn-overs…

And then in the 3rd quarter, a sudden storm took out the electricity.

The End.

JJ Watt made every one of the Washington players leave on a stretcher, Texans win. The end.

183 Lidane  Sep 7, 2014 3:35:10pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

You’re still missing the point. It’s not just their words. It’s their actions. It’s the legislation they propose, and the laws they pass.

People aren’t as stupid as the GOP would like them to be. A lot of folks look past the slick campaign ad to see the malice underneath.

184 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 3:35:40pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

That wouldn’t sell as well and it would risk highlighting to the viewing public that they ultimately are partially to blame for the situation. If party bases were less dogmatic, politicians would have to watch every word, fearful of accusations of heresy.

As long as talk radio hosts hold the power to destroy those they deem not pure enough, you’re going to have a tough time changing what the base demands of its candidates.

I’ve lost track of how many Republicans have been challenged by other, “purer” Republicans, all with the support of talk radio/RW blogs.

I’m sorry to see this happening. I believe the country needs two sane parties willing to work together to solve the country’s problems. That’s impossible with the current makeup of the GOP.

185 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:36:47pm

re: #183 Lidane

You’re still missing the point. It’s not just their words. It’s their actions. It’s the legislation they propose, and the laws they pass.

People aren’t as stupid as the GOP would like them to be. A lot of folks look past the slick campaign ad to see the malice underneath.

I’ve just come to the conclusion that Dark is perfectly fine with the actions. His comments are always on the optics of how they’re making themselves look stupid or racist but it’s always that they shouldn’t say such things, not that they should actually change what they’re doing.

186 allegro  Sep 7, 2014 3:37:46pm

re: #182 b.d.

JJ Watt made every one of the Washington players leave on a stretcher, Texans win. The end.

I love that guy.

187 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 3:39:36pm

re: #186 allegro

I love that guy.

He is awesome.
Today:

Watt sacked Washington quarterback Robert Griffin III once and hit him several other times, had two tackles for loss, a fumble recovery, a pass deflection and even blocked an extra point.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

188 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 3:40:46pm

re: #184 Skip Intro

As long as talk radio hosts hold the power to destroy those they deem not pure enough, you’re going to have a tough time changing what the base demands of its candidates.

I’ve lost track of how many Republicans have been challenged by other, “purer” Republicans, all with the support of talk radio/RW blogs.

I’m sorry to see this happening. I believe the country needs two sane parties willing to work together to solve the country’s problems. That’s impossible with the current makeup of the GOP.

And removing the influence of such talk show hosts just isn’t possible, They’ve got better access to the public than any politician.

189 Lidane  Sep 7, 2014 3:41:01pm

re: #179 allegro

I am currently watching Dallas humiliate themselves on national TV. So far, every pass Romo has thrown on this drive is a Hail Mary. I am amused.

And people think Jerry Jones gives a shit if Michael Sam is gay? Michael Sam could be plaid with neon pink polka dots and if he can help the Cowboys improve their pathetic defense he’d still sign him.

190 allegro  Sep 7, 2014 3:42:17pm

re: #187 b.d.

He is awesome.
Today:

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Add Clowney and Swearinger and no QB is safe from “hearing footsteps.” I would not want to be a QB in their sights. Heh.

191 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 3:43:38pm

TV is so fucked. As if it isn’t horrible enough already.

forbes.com

Who are the people who pay for this drivel?

192 allegro  Sep 7, 2014 3:43:56pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

And removing the influence of such talk show hosts just isn’t possible, They’ve got better access to the public than any politician.

Many have done a pretty good job of damaging/limiting Limbaugh’s influence. He’s toast.

193 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 3:43:57pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

And removing the influence of such talk show hosts just isn’t possible, They’ve got better access to the public than any politician.

Good grief, DF, the politicians aren’t any better.

194 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 3:44:15pm
195 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 3:45:24pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

I’d prefer that Republicans in other states not shoot their mouths off like they sometimes do, but trying to police thousands of officerholders spread out over huge distances is ultimately a fool’s errand. Illegal immigration provokes fear and anger in many people and in some people that anger finds its home in “Oh no, brown people!” sentiment.

You fundamentally misstate the nature of the problem. The GOP is a racist party, it enshrines xenophobic revanchism and white angst into its state and national platforms. This is a feature, not a bug, your party has been carrying out a Southern Strategy for so long that it has painted itself into a dark and hate filled corner, with no conceivable path to pivot away. It’s not a matter of Republican shooting their mouths off, its a problem of them being the kinds of people they are, of thinking the things they do. No amount of emphasizing self control, public relations marketing reformulations or optics refocusing is going to change that. The party is institutionally riddled with soul cancer and comprised of a rapidly aging and dying demographic. Maybe after its necrotizing base has finally succumbed to the grave the GOP can metamorphosize into something less than the sick joke it has become, but it will always be a backward looking party motivated by fear and greed.

196 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 3:45:25pm

re: #189 Lidane

Watching Romo today made you realize why preseason was invented but they didn’t play him in it. What a waste.

197 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 3:47:09pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Some people outgrow them. I did. I was a Limbaugh/Savage RWNJ for years until one day I had a WTF? moment and realized these people are nuts. They’re destroying the cohesiveness of the country, turning people against each other just to make a buck.

It’s gotten a whole lot worse since I jumped ship, as I think any reasonable person would agree.

198 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 3:49:49pm

re: #185 klys

I’ve just come to the conclusion that Dark is perfectly fine with the actions. His comments are always on the optics of how they’re making themselves look stupid or racist but it’s always that they shouldn’t say such things, not that they should actually change what they’re doing.

This, exactly. A lot of people here don’t like it when I say he has a gang mentality. That at best he sees his role here as a pr / marketing one to just round off the sharp edges and present a slightly softer, more palatable image of conservatism. But that’s exactly what D_F’s role is now, inherently deceptive image management, under the lovable ruse of self deprecating “honesty.”

199 ausador  Sep 7, 2014 3:52:40pm

Think of the K streeters!

200 missliberties  Sep 7, 2014 3:54:30pm

re: #197 Skip Intro

Thank You for coming to your senses! This gives me hope.

The media led narrative is……. not always accurate.

201 klys  Sep 7, 2014 3:55:13pm
202 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 3:58:27pm

re: #192 allegro

Many have done a pretty good job of damaging/limiting Limbaugh’s influence. He’s toast.

Limbaugh’s not toast because of his politics, though. He’s toast because he finally flung too many ungly insults at too many people and made himself radioactive.

But a big part of why he is falling is because he was the biggest right-of-center talk show host around, and he’d always had a nasty streak. That made him such a target that his fall became inevitable.

203 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 4:01:18pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

And removing the influence of such talk show hosts just isn’t possible, They’ve got better access to the public than any politician.

They are not the problem, merely a symptom of the poisoning of your party that has been going on since the shift in racial politics beginning in 1964. Combine this with the shift of white Republicans out of the cities leaving them to the Democrats and you see the rest of the policy flips of the past 50 years. The current crop of teahadi are simply the latest edition of knownothings that are attracted by faux conservatism like flies to manure. The Teahadi are the bumper crop of hate planted all across the south in the GOP’s explicit Southern Strategy.

It is impossible to have public policy debates with people who understand so little about how things work that they genuinely think Obama is a socialist.

Anybody who thinks I’m dangerous to them because I think everybody deserves food, shelter, health care and education through college is not somebody who has any other opinions I care about.

Even the rather rare decent and principled conservatives, Goldwater for one example, have badly stumbled over race, equality & freedom (for those like them? Yeah! for those not like them? Not so much…) when you look at their statements about “states rights” and other dog whistles over the past 50 years.

204 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 4:04:31pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Limbaugh’s not toast as long as he keeps getting money funneled to him from Heritage and other RW groups. Operating purely in the free market he claims to love, he would have failed years ago. The same goes for Hannity’s radio show, and Savage’s too.

205 Jayleia  Sep 7, 2014 4:05:03pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

How many right-wing pundits/politicians do not have a nasty streak, D_F?

206 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 4:08:19pm

re: #194 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I’m pretty sure Bruce Levenson is not a hater, but what he said is the kind of thing that will anger and worry black people, and they would be right to be offended.

But in some ways, Levenson is just the messenger of some seriously problematic facts. Here’s a paragraph from his email that expresses something I is very true. It’s spelling and punctuation errors have been left uncorrected. I have bolded the most critical bit:

My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don’t know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.

Source.

207 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 4:10:21pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

Well, then, I guess that makes it all OK…

smh

208 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 4:11:48pm
209 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 4:13:42pm
211 thedopefishlives  Sep 7, 2014 4:14:30pm

Evening Lizardim. So tonight’s foray into culinary excellence didn’t go so well - I set the grill on fire (seriously) and destroyed a perfectly good rack of ribs. Mrs. Fish was good enough to try to save them, but I worry about how many times I can set my grill on fire like that before I finally lose it. How go things among the lizardfolk?

212 klys  Sep 7, 2014 4:15:12pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

This is a brilliant example of why the free market isn’t going to deal with racism on its own.

213 FemNaziBitch  Sep 7, 2014 4:16:40pm
214 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 4:17:00pm

re: #207 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, then, I guess that makes it all OK…

smh

No, it doesn’t make things ‘Ok’ and that’s why Levenson had to leave as owner of the Hawks. But the problem he called attention to is real and I do not for the life of me know how to deal with it.

215 klys  Sep 7, 2014 4:17:40pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

No, it doesn’t make things ‘Ok’ and that’s why Levenson had to leave as owner of the Hawks. But the problem he called attention to is real and i do not for the life of me know how to deal with it.

The answer is not “catering to racists” but the Republican party has yet to pick up on that.

216 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 4:18:03pm

re: #203 William Barnett-Lewis

They are not the problem, merely a symptom of the poisoning of your party that has been going on since the shift in racial politics beginning in 1964. Combine this with the shift of white Republicans out of the cities leaving them to the Democrats and you see the rest of the policy flips of the past 50 years. The current crop of teahadi are simply the latest edition of knownothings that are attracted by faux conservatism like flies to manure. The Teahadi are the bumper crop of hate planted all across the south in the GOP’s explicit Southern Strategy.

It is impossible to have public policy debates with people who understand so little about how things work that they genuinely think Obama is a socialist.

Anybody who thinks I’m dangerous to them because I think everybody deserves food, shelter, health care and education through college is not somebody who has any other opinions I care about.

Even the rather rare decent and principled conservatives, Goldwater for one example, have badly stumbled over race, equality & freedom (for those like them? Yeah! for those not like them? Not so much…) when you look at their statements about “states rights” and other dog whistles over the past 50 years.

(cough..anglo-catholiccommie..cough)

217 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 4:19:05pm

re: #212 klys

This is a brilliant example of why the free market isn’t going to deal with racism on its own.

Hey…great deals on sports teams right now…if you don’t mind paying hundreds of millions of dollars to bigots.

218 FemNaziBitch  Sep 7, 2014 4:19:36pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

I’m pretty sure Bruce Levenson is not a hater, but what he said is the kind of thing that will anger and worry black people, and they would be right to be offended.

But in some ways, Levenson is just the messenger of some seriously problematic facts. Here’s a paragraph from his email that expresses something I is very true. It’s spelling and punctuation errors have been left uncorrected. I have bolded the most critical bit:

Source.

NO one likes being in a place in which they are the minority. There is something about going somewhere which is new —like the first day in a new school.

Just think how strong African-American’s and other minorities are —to be upwardly mobile in this society, they have to put themselves in that situation EVERY DAY.

That is a strength that gives them the edge.

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 4:19:45pm

re: #208 darthstar

sport snore. FTFY.

Real footie is better than either. Gooo Gunners!

220 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 4:21:16pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

I’m pretty sure Bruce Levenson is not a hater, but what he said is the kind of thing that will anger and worry black people, and they would be right to be offended.

But in some ways, Levenson is just the messenger of some seriously problematic facts. Here’s a paragraph from his email that expresses something I is very true. It’s spelling and punctuation errors have been left uncorrected. I have bolded the most critical bit:

Source.

Let’s not ever make white people “uncomfortable” being a “minority”…

His is bullshit rhetoric for preferring white patrons over Black ones?

221 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 4:22:38pm

re: #216 Decatur Deb

(cough..anglo-catholiccommie..cough)

From: “Our Present Duty”

If you are Christians then your Jesus is one and the same: Jesus on
the Throne of his glory, Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, Jesus
received into your hearts in Communion, Jesus with you mystically
as you pray, and Jesus enthroned in the hearts and bodies of his
brothers and sisters up and down this country. And it is folly—it is
madness—to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments
and Jesus on the Throne of glory, when you are sweating
him in the souls and bodies of his children. It cannot be done.

Now go out into the highways and hedges where not even the
Bishops will try to hinder you. Go out and look for Jesus in the
ragged, in the naked, in the oppressed and sweated, in those who
have lost hope, in those who are struggling to make good. Look for
Jesus. And when you see him, gird yourselves with his towel and
try to wash their feet.

The Rt. Rev. Frank Weston, Bishop of Zanzibar, July 1923.

222 FemNaziBitch  Sep 7, 2014 4:25:34pm

Princess Dog and Brat Puppy join together to keep the Ball from Feral Girl.

223 Lidane  Sep 7, 2014 4:26:09pm

re: #215 klys

The answer is not “catering to racists” but the Republican party has yet to pick up on that.

EXACTLY.

The answer to the Republican party’s race problem is marginalizing the racists. Of course, if the GOP did that they’d never win an election again. They NEED the redneck vote.

224 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 4:26:37pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

I do not for the life of me know how to deal with it.

I’ll upding you for that, DF. It’s an important step on the way to seeing what to do.

225 Kid A  Sep 7, 2014 4:28:06pm
226 FemNaziBitch  Sep 7, 2014 4:28:39pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

No, it doesn’t make things ‘Ok’ and that’s why Levenson had to leave as owner of the Hawks. But the problem he called attention to is real and I do not for the life of me know how to deal with it.

Stop listening to the Choir.

Step away from your normal sources of brainwashing for a week or two. Listen to NPR, watch C-SPAN, challenge your brain in a way you haven’t before.

You could see a counselor to learn new ways of thinking.

227 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 4:30:32pm

WATCH: Idiot With Confederate Flag Sets Himself on Fire Attempting Ice Bucket Challenge (Video)

Youtube Video

228 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 4:31:25pm

re: #220 Justanotherhuman

Let’s not ever make white people “uncomfortable” being a “minority”…

His is bullshit rhetoric for preferring white patrons over Black ones?

Read the email for what it is: a private email about a business. Levenson wasn’t focused on fostering cultural change, he was focused on how to grow his business’ profits. And its not at all clear what he could have done about the sentiment of Atlanta-area white people, even had he been willing to try.

The fact that a substantial minority of white people in America will feel alienated when an area or activity has “too many” people from another race is not OK. But they do feel that way, even though they don’t come out and say it.

229 sagehen  Sep 7, 2014 4:32:26pm

re: #205 Jayleia

How many right-wing pundits/politicians do not have a nasty streak, D_F?

Michael Smerconish isn’t nasty… but he doesn’t call himself a Republican anymore, he changed his registration to independent because he just couldn’t bear to be associated with the crazy anymore. (still calls himself right-of-center, or sometimes “conservative with a small c”, but he’s very deliberately distanced himself from Movement Conservatives. He was a McCain supporter until running mates were announced, at which point he became an “Obamacon”).

230 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 4:33:26pm

re: #215 klys

The answer is not “catering to racists” but the Republican party has yet to pick up on that.

As carefully as Levenson tried to couch and explain things he clearly said it was the black crowd scaring away the whites, and that it was the black crowd who weren’t affluent enough to support the team. Making it clear later that the fears were unfounded was nice, but the black crowd didn’t scare anybody away, the white people complaining were just pussies. Fuck them.

And the real problem is that he was trying to create a majority white attendance in a majority black town, and was comparing his numbers to other NBA teams instead of to the community he was actually located in.

Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games.

Also he was making some incredibly racist complaints:

— it’s 70 pct black
— the cheerleaders are black
— the music is hip hop
— at the bars it’s 90 pct black
— there are few fathers and sons at the games
— we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel.

Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don’t care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that’s our season tixs demo. i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even bitched that the kiss cam is too black.

He hits almost every note, the entire thing is extremely fucked up.

231 Dr. Matt  Sep 7, 2014 4:36:15pm

re: #229 sagehen

Michael Smerconish isn’t nasty… but he doesn’t call himself a Republican anymore, he changed his registration to independent because he just couldn’t bear to be associated with the crazy anymore. (still calls himself right-of-center, or sometimes “conservative with a small c”, but he’s very deliberately distanced himself from Movement Conservatives. He was a McCain supporter until running mates were announced, at which point he became an “Obamacon”).

Smerconish is one of the few commonsense centrists on the radio. I have never heard him talk like a partisan and has no problem fairly criticizing both sides. I actually never knew that he was once a Republican. Interesting.

232 FemNaziBitch  Sep 7, 2014 4:37:03pm

bbl

233 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 4:37:36pm

re: #210 FemNaziBitch

NYPD Cops Arrest Mom Who Was Waiting For Family To Return From Restroom

Check out that organization. There’s something off about a movement outlet that incorporates itself and prohibits reprint of its messages.

234 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 4:39:10pm

The real reason Levenson probably has to sell the team, beyond trying to whiten up attendance in a black majority municipality, was that he labeled white people for what they are, overwhelmingly racist. Southern whites might be more racist than the national average, but the difference isn’t that great.

235 Rightwingconspirator  Sep 7, 2014 4:39:44pm

re: #198 goddamnedfrank

This, exactly. A lot of people here don’t like it when I say he has a gang mentality. That at best he sees his role here as a pr / marketing one to just round off the sharp edges and present a slightly softer, more palatable image of conservatism. But that’s exactly what D_F’s role is now, inherently deceptive image management, under the lovable ruse of self deprecating “honesty.”

OTOH-An unnecessarily harsh description of a moderate Republican that would like to see real change in the GOP. Caught between the rock on the right and the hard place on his left.

His situation is complicated by this-Few hard core Democratic partisans really want to see the GOP mend its ways. That would just be a tougher opponent in the elections. People that put a lower priority on party influence than policy views look at that tough spot with more sympathy.

It’s a lot like how anyone who speaks up for gun rights is often burdened with the extremes the leadership & ILA side of the NRA presents. The moderates earn the contempt of both ends of the spectrum. Twice as many critics as a partisan.

236 stpaulbear  Sep 7, 2014 4:41:11pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Read the email for what it is: a private email about a business. Levenson wasn’t focused on fostering cultural change, he was focused on how to grow his business’ profits.

And what I read is that he’s very succinctly saying that black people are bad for his bottom line. He was accepting that and he didn’t want to think about it beyond how it affected his profits.

237 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 4:42:14pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Read the email for what it is: a private email about a business. Levenson wasn’t focused on fostering cultural change, he was focused on how to grow his business’ profits. And its not at all clear what he could have done about the sentiment of Atlanta-area white people, even had he been willing to try.

The fact that a substantial minority of white people in America will feel alienated when an area or activity has “too many” people from another race is not OK. But they do feel that way, even though they don’t come out and say it.

The fact is that white flight created this situation. They didn’t want to live in the same neighborhood w/Blacks and many still don’t like it, and realtors still “steer” their customers in some cases. Over 45 yrs of neighborhood desegregation in Charlotte, for instance, has done little to alleviate the color line in most parts of Charlotte. White people simply move further out, and older established, wealthy White neighborhoods remain that way through word of mouth.

I worked for an atty who actually bought the house next door to him so that one of the Black pro ball players in Charlotte wouldn’t get the opportunity, since his very upscale neighborhood already had been “invaded” by another Black pro player.

238 sagehen  Sep 7, 2014 4:44:02pm

I think it’s wonderful that Levenson self-reported, and chose to step away, because he realizes he’s just not the best guy to lead the organization into the future.

Pure speculation now: I think Donald Sterling, and Ferguson, made him really examine his own conscience and mindset, and his self-examination has revealed things he didn’t know about himself and doesn’t like. A personal growth revelation.

239 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 4:44:34pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

To be clear, there are other, much worse, forms of racial problems than feeling of “This is too ‘otherized’ for me”. That sort of sentiment can and does occur with people from any race and is ultimately tied into the human need for a sense of belonging. This next article showcases what really can be called “hate”, a white female soccer player at Syracuse University attacking a teammate in large part just for being black:

A Syracuse University soccer player has been suspended from the team after she was caught on camera hurling racist and homophobic slurs.

Midfielder Hanna Strong, a senior at the university, is now the subject of a discrimination investigation after being identified as the student in the video, The Daily Orange reported Saturday.

‘If you touch me, it will be over,’ Strong tells a black male while he walks away, his hands up, in the undated video.

‘Are you recording this? You f****t-ass n****r,’ she shouts to another person off-camera. ‘It’s bulls**t.’

The hateful words drew an audible reaction from a crowd off-camera— and Strong responded.

‘Call me out on saying the n-word? I don’t give a s**t,’ she adds.

‘Don’t record me saying this!’

Women’s soccer coach Phil Wheddon has suspended Strong from the team indefinitely, pending results of the investigation.

Now with a bigot like this, I know what to do: Punish them publicly and severely. Don’t be greatly moved by tears or pleas for mercy. Bigotry of this level doesn’t go away overnight, so any professed conversion should be treated with asperity. Forgiveness should be years in the making, given only if the offender proves over a long period of time that they understand what they did wrong and no longer harbor the feelings of bigotry that lead them to do wrong.

240 klys  Sep 7, 2014 4:44:42pm

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

OTOH-An unnecessarily harsh description of a moderate Republican that would like to see real change in the GOP. Caught between the rock on the right and the hard place on his left.

His situation is complicated by this-Few hard core Democratic partisans really want to see the GOP mend its ways. That would just be a tougher opponent in the elections. People that put a lower priority on party influence than policy views look at that tough spot with more sympathy.

It’s a lot like how anyone who speaks up for gun rights is often burdened with the extremes the leadership & ILA side of the NRA presents. The moderates earn the contempt of both ends of the spectrum. Twice as many critics as a partisan.

I’d buy the “he’s a moderate Republican who wants to see the party change” except for all the times we’ve seen him post things that boil down to “go team GOP” without knowing anything about the candidate/situation/whatever except that there’s an (R) by the name and therefore he must support.

241 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 4:45:29pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Read the email for what it is: a private email about a business. Levenson wasn’t focused on fostering cultural change, he was focused on how to grow his business’ profits. And its not at all clear what he could have done about the sentiment of Atlanta-area white people, even had he been willing to try.

The fact that a substantial minority of white people in America will feel alienated when an area or activity has “too many” people from another race is not OK. But they do feel that way, even though they don’t come out and say it.

good freakin grief, DF! You are an apologist because it was “just business”????

242 darthstar  Sep 7, 2014 4:46:20pm

re: #241 Backwoods_Sleuth

good freakin grief, DF! You are an apologist because it was “just business”????

So was owning people.

243 readyfreddy815  Sep 7, 2014 4:47:40pm

I wont tell you how much I spent to upgrade a ZX81 from 1k to 16k.

244 bratwurst  Sep 7, 2014 4:48:32pm

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

His situation is complicated by this-Few hard core Democratic partisans really want to see the GOP mend its ways.

While this is certainly true, I also think a LARGE % of Americans who watched the GOP primary process in 2011/12 but voted for Obama would be very open to having two legitimate national parties made up of adults to choose from.

245 klys  Sep 7, 2014 4:49:00pm

Meanwhile, on that Yosemite fire…

246 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 4:50:33pm

re: #241 Backwoods_Sleuth

Heard from Mr. BWS this pm?

Nearly 200,000 people still without power in Michigan after storm knocks out power to nearly 375,000, DTE Energy says - @DTE_Energy
end of alert

247 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 4:50:49pm

re: #241 Backwoods_Sleuth

good freakin grief, DF! You are an apologist because it was “just business”????

No, I’m not. Levenson was wrong about a good many things and due to that he had to go. But he wasn’t motivated by hate, and unlike people like Jim Hoft he wasn’t trying to make things worse. But he put resolving racial issues as much less important than increasing profits for his business.

248 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 4:52:01pm

re: #246 Justanotherhuman

Heard from Mr. BWS this pm?

Nearly 200,000 people still without power in Michigan after storm knocks out power to nearly 375,000, DTE Energy says - @DTE_Energy
end of alert

yes, see my #168

249 gwangung  Sep 7, 2014 4:52:30pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

No, I’m not. Levenson was wrong about a good many things and due to that he had to go. But he wasn’t motivated by hate, and unlike people like Jim Hoft he wasn’t trying to make things worse. But he put resolving racial issues as much less important than increasing profits for his business.

To the objects of racism, IT DOESN’T MATTER.

It’s still racist.

250 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 4:52:52pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

No, I’m not. Levenson was wrong about a good many things and due to that he had to go. But he wasn’t motivated by hate, and unlike people like Jim Hoft he wasn’t trying to make things worse. But he put resolving racial issues as much less important than increasing profits for his business.

It was JUST BUSINESS, so that’s not so bad.
good grief…

251 stpaulbear  Sep 7, 2014 4:54:44pm

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

His situation is complicated by this-Few hard core Democratic partisans really want to see the GOP mend its ways. That would just be a tougher opponent in the elections.

Umm, what this Democrat would like to see is the Republican party stop running such freaking hard-core candidates. Minnesota used to have politicians like Arne Carlson and Dave Durenberger (really good on health care but not so good at book deals) instead of Michele Bachmann and Tom Emmer. The reason we appear hard core is that we are genuinely scared about what would happen if people like Gommert, Cruz, Paul or even Ryan have control. We came way to close to having vice-president Palin. That is nuts.

252 gwangung  Sep 7, 2014 4:55:51pm

re: #250 Backwoods_Sleuth

It was JUST BUSINESS, so that’s not so bad.
good grief…

TO be blunt, DF is still operating under the illusion that racism is merely evil intent…otherwise, he’d call out it out for what it was….

253 De Kolta Chair  Sep 7, 2014 4:57:10pm

So ZomRomComs are a thing, heh?

254 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 4:57:36pm

re: #235 Rightwingconspirator

OTOH-An unnecessarily harsh description of a moderate Republican that would like to see real change in the GOP. Caught between the rock on the right and the hard place on his left.

His situation is complicated by this-Few hard core Democratic partisans really want to see the GOP mend its ways. That would just be a tougher opponent in the elections. People that put a lower priority on party influence than policy views look at that tough spot with more sympathy.

Yes, us Democratic progressives are definitely making things hard for milquetoast moderate Republicans like Dark by not being impressed by his incessant focus on style over substance. If only he had more sympathy from us he’d be loads more effective at changing his party of incorrigibly racist greed-bags.

It’s a lot like how anyone who speaks up for gun rights is often burdened with the extremes the leadership & ILA side of the NRA presents. The moderates earn the contempt of both ends of the spectrum. Twice as many critics as a partisan.

For that analogy not to fail it kind of depends on if the gun rights moderates in question are just advocating changes in marketing and optics or offering real reform, as I have by advocating multiple hard hitting legal reforms. Reforms like putting all handguns under the auspices of the National Firearms Act, requiring $200 or more tax stamps to transfer. Also requiring at least two recommendations, one that must come from someone related to you and one from someone who cannot be related to you, along with a police interview. These reforms, it should be noted, have received significant pushback from the so called gun rights moderates here. The so called “hard place” barely exists in this particular debate, very, very few people are seriously advocating a universal ban on all firearms, if for no other reason than the sheer impracticality of such a proposal.

255 klys  Sep 7, 2014 4:59:57pm

re: #251 stpaulbear

Umm, what this Democrat would like to see is the Republican party stop running such freaking hard-core candidates. We used to have politicians like Arne Carlson and Dave Durrenberger (really good on health care but not so good at book deals) instead of Michele Bachmann and Tom Emmer. The reason we appear hard core is that we are genuinely scared about what would happen if people like Gommert, Cruz, Paul or even Ryan have control. We came way to close to having vice-president Palin. That is nuts.

I’m hard-core in the sense that I believe that all people deserve to be treated equally under the law, whether we’re talking about marriage between consenting adults or equal pay or accessibility of health care of whatever.

Strangely, I don’t see a lot of room for compromise when we are talking about the basic, fundamental rights we all should have and white men generally get to take for granted.

256 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 5:00:21pm

Levenson wasn’t motivated by hate, just greed resulting in a willingness to cater to hate and fear.

This distinction matters for some reason.

257 Mattand  Sep 7, 2014 5:03:19pm

re: #229 sagehen

Michael Smerconish isn’t nasty… but he doesn’t call himself a Republican anymore, he changed his registration to independent because he just couldn’t bear to be associated with the crazy anymore. (still calls himself right-of-center, or sometimes “conservative with a small c”, but he’s very deliberately distanced himself from Movement Conservatives. He was a McCain supporter until running mates were announced, at which point he became an “Obamacon”).

He wrote an editorial last week in the Philly Inquirer about Mike Brown’s shooting that was standard “We need to hear both sides” Balance Fairy horseshit.

There’s was a lot of hand wringing over the liquor store video in the editorial, with no indication that it’s fucking irrelevant to why Wilson shot Brown.

IIRC, he also authored a book that included a defense of racial profiling at airports. Because Crazy Muslim Terrorists booga booga.

So please take Smerconish’s “I’m an independent” song-and-dance with a huge grain of salt.

258 goddamnedfrank  Sep 7, 2014 5:04:23pm
259 Mattand  Sep 7, 2014 5:05:48pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

*Snerk*

Where’s Nelson Muntz when you need him?

260 stpaulbear  Sep 7, 2014 5:06:28pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

*Snerk*

As another recently indicted politician might say: “Ooops.”

261 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 5:07:07pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

*Snerk*

And McDonnell would be a triple-dipper…

262 garzooma  Sep 7, 2014 5:08:40pm

Did Chuck Todd remind anyone else of Zoolander (Why male models)?

263 Belafon  Sep 7, 2014 5:08:57pm

re: #260 stpaulbear

He’ll probably try to complain that since he was an elected official when the law was signed it shouldn’t apply to him.

264 b.d.  Sep 7, 2014 5:09:14pm

FFS

Pamela Anderson has secretly visited Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian Embassy, I can report.

/snip

Somewhat surprisingly, the Baywatch actress, right, was trying to encourage the Wikileaks founder to back her new foundation, which supports women who are victims of sexual abuse, among other causes.

dailymail.co.uk

265 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 5:10:23pm

re: #251 stpaulbear

Yep. Here in Wisconsin we used to have Republicans like Lee Sherman Dreyfus & former Congressman Steve Gunderson. I voted for both over idiots run by the Dems against them. That’s not to say I agreed with either very often, but they were able to be better civil servants than the alternatives.

That said, they’re a different species than the hateful regime in Madison today,

266 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:13:45pm

re: #249 gwangung

To the objects of racism, IT DOESN’T MATTER.

It’s still racist.

It needs to matter to them at least a bit, because different types of racism require different solutions.

Edit before post: There was a lot more I was going to say, but I deleted it because I can’t figure out how to say right.

I know how to deal with ‘hard’ bigotry, but the ‘soft’ forms of racial problems pose issues I don’t know how to address (even though I know there’s not much really soft about them).

I need to just confess at this point that I’m pretty much at my current limit for thought. I’ve always been a problem solver, working to figure out concrete answers to specific problems. The deeper issues of how and why people feel what they feel in the manner that they do baffle me. So I confess:

The racial issues America are most critical in 2014 require solutions that I am not able to conceive of. Those issues are my Peter Principal, my level of incompetence.

267 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 5:14:11pm

re: #264 b.d.

FFS

dailymail.co.uk

“You are getting sleepy. You are getting very sleepy.”

268 Mattand  Sep 7, 2014 5:14:47pm

re: #262 garzooma

Did Chuck Todd remind anyone else of Zoolander (Why male models)?

I started LOLing when I saw the name of the link. Duchonvny is priceless in that scene.

269 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:16:44pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

It needs to matter to them at least a bit, because different types of racism require different solutions.

Edit before post: There was a lot more I was going to say, but I deleted it because I can’t figure out how to say right.

I know how to deal with ‘hard’ bigotry, but the ‘soft’ forms of racial problems pose issues I don’t know how to address (even though I know there’s not much really soft about them).

I need to just confess at this point that I’m pretty much at my current limit for thought. I’ve always been a problem solver, working to figure out concrete answers to specific problems. The deeper issues of how and why people feel what they feel in the manner that they do baffle me. So I confess:

The racial issues America are most critical in 2014 require solutions that I am not able to conceive of. Those issues are my Peter Principal, my level of incompetence.

There are NO different types of racism, DF. NONE!!!
There are no different levels, none is worse than another.
It is all wrong, and trying to qualify the definition doesn’t improve your argument.

270 stpaulbear  Sep 7, 2014 5:17:39pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

It needs to matter to them at least a bit, because different types of racism require different solutions.

Edit before post: There was a lot more I was going to say, but I deleted it because I can’t figure out how to say right.

How about saying “They need to find a way right now to stop doing racist things”? That would pretty well cover it.

271 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:18:41pm

And here I am, watching 12 Years A Slave

272 Belafon  Sep 7, 2014 5:19:04pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

It needs to matter to them at least a bit, because different types of racism require different solutions.

Edit before post: There was a lot more I was going to say, but I deleted it because I can’t figure out how to say right.

I know how to deal with ‘hard’ bigotry, but the ‘soft’ forms of racial problems pose issues I don’t know how to address (even though I know there’s not much really soft about them).

I need to just confess at this point that I’m pretty much at my current limit for thought. I’ve always been a problem solver, working to figure out concrete answers to specific problems. The deeper issues of how and why people feel what they feel in the manner that they do baffle me. So I confess:

The racial issues America are most critical in 2014 require solutions that I am not able to conceive of. Those issues are my Peter Principal, my level of incompetence.

Here’s the start: There are no excuses for racism.

273 Stanley Sea  Sep 7, 2014 5:21:20pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

No, I’m not. Levenson was wrong about a good many things and due to that he had to go. But he wasn’t motivated by hate, and unlike people like Jim Hoft he wasn’t trying to make things worse. But he put resolving racial issues as much less important than increasing profits for his business.

Racism under cover basically. Still racism.

274 gwangung  Sep 7, 2014 5:22:36pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

It needs to matter to them at least a bit, because different types of racism require different solutions.

Edit before post: There was a lot more I was going to say, but I deleted it because I can’t figure out how to say right.

I know how to deal with ‘hard’ bigotry, but the ‘soft’ forms of racial problems pose issues I don’t know how to address (even though I know there’s not much really soft about them).

I need to just confess at this point that I’m pretty much at my current limit for thought. I’ve always been a problem solver, working to figure out concrete answers to specific problems. The deeper issues of how and why people feel what they feel in the manner that they do baffle me. So I confess:

The racial issues America are most critical in 2014 require solutions that I am not able to conceive of. Those issues are my Peter Principal, my level of incompetence.

Dark, you’re putting the problem on the VICTIMS of racism. That’s ass backwards.

First thing is that you have to get the perpetrators to acknowledge THEY ARE BEING RACISTS. (Which is what’s happening here). It’s the PERPETRATORS that have to realize they are screwing people over.

275 gwangung  Sep 7, 2014 5:23:24pm

re: #270 stpaulbear

How about saying “They need to find a way right now to stop doing racist things”? That would pretty well cover it.

Yes. This.

276 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:25:49pm

re: #270 stpaulbear

How about saying “They need to find a way right now to stop doing racist things”? That would pretty well cover it.

But the thing is that there aren’t going to do that. They don’t see it as racism and a lot of them will continue to rationalize it as something else, in part because that something else is a much lesser but still real part of their thinking.

Given me the facts and enough time and I can sometimes guide a person past their self-deception. But I don’t how to do that on a larger scale.

277 makeitstop  Sep 7, 2014 5:26:19pm

Many updating-worthy responses here.

278 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:27:15pm

I honestly believe that someday we are going to get DF to the side of rational thinking that EVERYONE deserves to be treated as a fellow human being on their own merits, rather than ledger assets.

279 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 5:28:04pm

re: #277 makeitstop

Many updating-worthy responses here.

Typo?

280 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:29:09pm

re: #276 Dark_Falcon

But the thing is that there aren’t going to do that. They don’t see it as racism and a lot of them will continue to rationalize it as something else, in part because that something else is a much lesser but still real part of their thinking.

Given me the facts and enough time and I can sometimes guide a person past their self-deception. But I don’t how to do that on a larger scale.

You can make a huge start by acknowledging that there are no different kinds of racism.

281 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:30:02pm

re: #277 makeitstop

Many updating-worthy responses here.

What’s weird is that I’ve got the top comment on the thread. But like I said, obvious assholes like Chuck Todd are problems I know how to solve.

282 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 5:31:34pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

You can make a huge start by acknowledging that there are no different kinds of racism.

Not sure that’s accurate at all. We’d need a seminar or two of sociologists and a lexicographer to help us sort that out.

283 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Sep 7, 2014 5:32:38pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

a “government” with no responsibility other than helping people troll each other and helping to distribute fappable images. That’s some country they govern.

284 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:32:49pm

re: #282 Decatur Deb

Not sure that’s accurate at all. We’d need a seminar or two of sociologists and a lexicographer to help us sort that out.

my bad. I should have worded that better.

285 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:33:08pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

You can make a huge start by acknowledging that there are no different kinds of racism.

But there are, Ba_Sl. Racism occurs in varying degrees and from a sufficient variety of sources that different kinds of it must be recognized. They’re all bad, all of them, but dealing with different forms and manifestations of racism often takes different methods.

286 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:34:52pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

But there are, Ba_Sl. Racism occurs in varying degrees and from a sufficient variety of sources that different kinds of it must be recognized. They’re all bad, all of them, but dealing with different forms and manifestations of racism often takes different methods.

A victim of racism or any other kind of discrimination doesn’t care about varied definitions.

287 Stanley Sea  Sep 7, 2014 5:35:57pm

Those Hawks fans are like fuck. My money isn’t even good enough.

288 Kragar  Sep 7, 2014 5:37:31pm

Funny, I used assault weapons for years.

289 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 5:37:44pm

re: #284 Backwoods_Sleuth

my bad. I should have worded that better.

NBD, but if it’s a monolith, we can’t find a way to dissolve it. Break it down (analyze it) and we can address it effectively. For one thing, racism is rarely a thing unto itself. It’s part of a larger syndrome, grouped with a bunch of anti-human deficiencies.

290 William Barnett-Lewis  Sep 7, 2014 5:39:12pm

re: #288 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Funny, I used assault weapons for years.

As did I. But semantic games by both sides is why I try to be precise about this despite the aggravation that has caused here on occasion.

291 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:39:23pm

re: #289 Decatur Deb

NBD, but if it’s a monolith, we can’t find a way to dissolve it. Break it down (analyze it) and we can address it effectively. For one thing, racism is rarely a thing unto itself. It’s part of a larger syndrome, grouped with a bunch of anti-human deficiencies.

Thank you, you said that better than I could have done.

292 Justanotherhuman  Sep 7, 2014 5:40:58pm

Later, Lizards! Have a great night. : )

293 Decatur Deb  Sep 7, 2014 5:41:42pm

re: #288 Kragar

Fox News Host: ‘Assault Weapon’ Is A ‘Made-Up Term’ @TPM talkingpointsmemo.com

Funny, I used assault weapons for years.

If you’re engaging that idiot, would you tell him that all definitions are ‘made up terms’.

294 Dark_Falcon  Sep 7, 2014 5:42:17pm

re: #290 William Barnett-Lewis

As did I. But semantic games by both sides is why I try to be precise about this despite the aggravation that has caused here on occasion.

Exactly. On that matter it really isn’t a Magical Balance Fairy thing; both pro- and anti-gun groups engage in a “battle of the outposts”, trying to push the terminology used in their favor.

295 klys  Sep 7, 2014 5:43:46pm

re: #276 Dark_Falcon

But the thing is that there aren’t going to do that. They don’t see it as racism and a lot of them will continue to rationalize it as something else, in part because that something else is a much lesser but still real part of their thinking.

Given me the facts and enough time and I can sometimes guide a person past their self-deception. But I don’t how to do that on a larger scale.

You know what group is committed to maintaining that self-deception as a whole?

Should be a pretty easy answer, seeing how we see example after example after example of it every day.

296 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 7, 2014 5:55:20pm

I can see how 12 Years A Slave was a winner at the Oscars.

I found Solomon Northup’s book written in 1853 on Gutenberg project. It’s available in Kindle, epub and other formats.

gutenberg.org

297 Jenner7  Sep 7, 2014 5:56:20pm

re: #296 Backwoods_Sleuth

Good book, good movie. It’s hard to watch though…

298 Rightwingconspirator  Sep 7, 2014 5:58:32pm

re: #254 goddamnedfrank

Yes, us Democratic progressives are definitely making things hard for milquetoast moderate Republicans like Dark by not being impressed by his incessant focus on style over substance. If only he had more sympathy from us he’d be loads more effective at changing his party of incorrigibly racist greed-bags.

For that analogy not to fail it kind of depends on if the gun rights moderates in question are just advocating changes in marketing and optics or offering real reform, as I have by advocating multiple hard hitting legal reforms. Reforms like putting all handguns under the auspices of the National Firearms Act, requiring $200 or more tax stamps to transfer. Also requiring at least two recommendations, one that must come from someone related to you and one from someone who cannot be related to you, along with a police interview. These reforms, it should be noted, have received significant pushback from the so called gun rights moderates here. The so called “hard place” barely exists in this particular debate, very, very few people are seriously advocating a universal ban on all firearms, if for no other reason than the sheer impracticality of such a proposal.

Well that’s quite a proposal. I’ll not debate that right now as I have another point to stick with for now.

Those “so called gun rights moderates’ already don’t belong to the NRA. They claim (if you believe them) 4.5 million members. Gun ownership is what maybe 45 million? 90% of gun owners or more are not in the NRA.

Now lot’s of them might also want to see us try a few more modest reforms on a national basis before we quite get to where you suggest. It’s still real reform and indicative. So that support we both want for reform is just going to happen at the voting booth.

I think we saw more popular support for universal registration by far than we got in congress. So at that point many gun owners have gotten out ahead of Congress. Yet they will apparently be burdened in your view with not just the NRA but also the failings of Congress.

About bans-Right few people advocate bans, and I’d be happy to set that aside as a few wild outliers apart from a certain problem. The problem is that entire city jurisdictions made a practical ban a reality and it took the Supreme Court to set that straight. And DC clearly is going to make it as difficult as they can possibly get away with for home possession & the routine back and forth to and from the range let alone any kind of CCW.

299 makeitstop  Sep 7, 2014 6:03:41pm

re: #279 Decatur Deb

Typo?

Yeah, I posted and ran. I just started posting here on my Kindle, and auto-correct got me.

300 urbanmeemaw  Sep 7, 2014 6:03:44pm

re: #251 stpaulbear

Umm, what this Democrat would like to see is the Republican party stop running such freaking hard-core candidates. Minnesota used to have politicians like Arne Carlson and Dave Durenberger (really good on health care but not so good at book deals) instead of Michele Bachmann and Tom Emmer. The reason we appear hard core is that we are genuinely scared about what would happen if people like Gommert, Cruz, Paul or even Ryan have control. We came way to close to having vice-president Palin. That is nuts.

In my Minnesota days (early to mid 60’s) the DFL/Democrats dominated the state - Humphrey, Mondale, McCarthy, Karl Rolvaag, Joseph Karth (those were the days when dinosaurs counted votes). My dad and I were pretty active in local politics (I was in high school) and the community seemed to be very engaged (of course unions were still strong then, too, which made a difference). It saddens me to see what Minnesota has produced in the past few years. What the hell happened? Or was I not in touch with reality at the time I was there?

301 Skip Intro  Sep 7, 2014 6:04:55pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

Better check the fine print for the politicians exemption.

302 sagehen  Sep 7, 2014 6:17:56pm

re: #276 Dark_Falcon

But the thing is that there aren’t going to do that. They don’t see it as racism and a lot of them will continue to rationalize it as something else, in part because that something else is a much lesser but still real part of their thinking.

Given me the facts and enough time and I can sometimes guide a person past their self-deception. But I don’t how to do that on a larger scale.

Which is *exactly* why black people get turned down for mortgages they qualify for, why black guys with college degrees and clean records get fewer interview callbacks from employers than white guys with high school degrees and prison time, why black people don’t get business loans from banks that would give a loan to white guys with the exact same prospectus, why black guys get shot in circumstances that white guys would get a discussion and sent on their way.

Then Twitter erupts with black people saying “that’s so racist”, and TCOT screams about playing the race card and victimhood ideology and there’s something wrong with their culture and entrenched poverty would disappear if only they worked harder and didn’t wear hoodies. Personal responsibility!!

303 b_sharp  Sep 7, 2014 7:03:25pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

I honestly believe that someday we are going to get DF to the side of rational thinking that EVERYONE deserves to be treated as a fellow human being on their own merits, rather than ledger assets.

Just to put my two cents in here on a dead thread, D_F’s comments about Levenson, taken from the snippet D_F posted, is correct. The snippet in the article used as the header was out of context.

Levenson was very clear that he was pointing out the attitudes of whites in not attending games because of a fear of blacks. He may have been using that observation as an excuse for why attendance was down but his observations were a reflection of how he felt whites in the area acted, not blacks. He made a point of commenting on how the white fear of blacks was unfounded.

His was a making a comment more about whites than blacks.

Words have to be taken in context or the meaning can be construed to be the opposite of intentions. I’ve argued many times with wingnuts about Obama and other people on the left having their comments taken out of context by RWNJs. This is another case of words without context being misread. I’m not sure that mentioning the habits of a racist community is the same as being racist.

304 klys  Sep 7, 2014 8:07:34pm

re: #303 b_sharp

Just to put my two cents in here on a dead thread, D_F’s comments about Levenson, taken from the snippet D_F posted, is correct. The snippet in the article used as the header was out of context.

Levenson was very clear that he was pointing out the attitudes of whites in not attending games because of a fear of blacks. He may have been using that observation as an excuse for why attendance was down but his observations were a reflection of how he felt whites in the area acted, not blacks. He made a point of commenting on how the white fear of blacks was unfounded.

His was a making a comment more about whites than blacks.

Words have to be taken in context or the meaning can be construed to be the opposite of intentions. I’ve argued many times with wingnuts about Obama and other people on the left having their comments taken out of context by RWNJs. This is another case of words without context being misread. I’m not sure that mentioning the habits of a racist community is the same as being racist.

I would argue that what turned that e-mail racist is the part where he was completely willing to cater to racists in order to increase his profits.

It was not an academic discussion of habits, it was someone looking at high black attendance at the basketball games as a problem and trying to figure out how to ‘fix’ this.


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