Conservatives Are SHOCKED at GRUBER!

Fake
Politics • Views: 36,167
MIT economist Jonathan Gruber has caused a giant fake outrage

Today the entire conservative media machine woke up in a fake rage, screaming GRUBER! GRUBER I SAY! DIE OBAMACARE DIE!

Many are pretending to be outraged that MIT economist Jonathan Gruber actually was paid for his work. Charles Krauthammer is pretending outrage at the fact that bills are often written to mislead; he’s never heard of such a thing before, apparently, and wow is he ever shocked!

And the National Review has at least four articles hyperventilating over GRUBER! and his outrageous behavior, which is how they usually act when a Democrat talks like a Republican.

But the bottom line on this enormous burst of GRUBER! is that it’s not gaining traction with the public.

Jump to bottom

486 comments
1 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 11:00:36am
2 Dr. Matt  Nov 14, 2014 11:01:50am
3 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:02:44am

Conservatives outraged. Oh it’s another day ending in -day. Seriously what a bunch of crybabies.

4 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 11:03:19am

This may be their lamest temper tantrum yet.

5 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 11:04:06am
Charles Krauthammer is pretending outrage at the fact that bills are often written to mislead; he’s never heard of such a thing before, apparently, and wow is he ever shocked!

Such gentle, pure souls, unsullied with the political process, these RWNJ.

6 Dr. Matt  Nov 14, 2014 11:04:34am
7 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:05:52am

re: #5 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Such gentle, pure souls, unsullied with the political process, these RWNJ.

Is that the same Krauthammer that has the ability to diagnosis narcissism in people he’s never met?

8 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 11:06:02am

…and, son, that’s when we learned that the legislation crafting process can be a tiny bit mischievous. That was when Amercia lost its innocence and Exceptionalism…

9 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 11:07:10am

re: #1 Kragar

Simon says you’d severus in to little snapes if we ever told the truth. /

10 The Ghost of a Flea (R)  Nov 14, 2014 11:07:15am

At this rate, we’re going to hit Peak Fainting Couch before next Thanksgiving.

11 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 11:11:02am

re: #10 The Ghost of a Flea (R)

At this rate, we’re going to hit Peak Fainting Couch before next Thanksgiving.

Not possible: the perimeter of the Fainting Couch expands at the cube of the number of lies being told by the RW.

12 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 11:13:37am

There’s an entire art form devoted to how referendum/public questions/ballot initiatives phrased on ballots so as to result in the exact opposite result as intended.

More than 200 years of jurisprudence in the US at the federal and state level relies on the legislative histories to help untangle what the intention of laws are meant to be as originally framed. This isn’t just some admission that drafters have purposes other than publicly stated or that the drafters are sometimes at cross purposes with each other because of constituencies they’re trying to placate.

The drafting of the PPACA was fraught with the need to get enough people on board - so they tried to frame the individual mandate as something other than a tax, even if it was based in the Internal Revenue Code (and the S.Ct. ruled it a tax in any event). There are indeed tax components to the ACA, and there are people who are ignorant of the rationales, purposes, and benefits of the ACA to all Americans from expanding access to health insurance via exchanges and the Medicaid expansion to those who don’t meet the qualifications for subsidies.

And those people are GOPers/right wingers.

Because they apparently don’t understand that a healthy workforce is a more efficient workforce, and that it can bend the health care cost curve down - by applying efficiencies of scale to get price breaks that otherwise wouldn’t be given.

And in any event, the US health costs still exceed those of other Western countries with not much to show for it in terms of higher life expectancies. We get the bill for high costs, but not the benefits.

13 Lancelot Link  Nov 14, 2014 11:14:56am

Shocked!
Youtube Video

14 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 11:23:35am

Aussie protestors at Bondi Beach send a message to PM Tony Abbott about his stance on climate change.

15 Vicious Piebola  Nov 14, 2014 11:26:27am

Wait… what?

16 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:28:32am

you do have to love how this is an outrage outrage but the GOP candidate for president actually saying he thinks 47% of the population are takers is no big deal. Really go with this as your outrage du jour. Please do.

17 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:29:24am

re: #15 Vicious Piebola

Wait… what?

[Embedded content]

Yeah I am not following that at all. Not to mention that Fischer’s own ideological and theocratic ancestors were fond of using the Bible to justify the existence of slavery.

18 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 11:30:24am

re: #15 Vicious Piebola

If the Bible had been followed, Bryan Fischer would have long ago been stoned to death as a false prophet.

19 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 11:30:27am

I’ll bet Jonathan Gruber’s email inbox is crammed with hate mail from wingnuts right now.

21 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 11:30:45am
22 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 11:32:38am

re: #12 lawhawk

…there are people who are ignorant of the rationales, purposes, and benefits of the ACA to all Americans from expanding access to health insurance via exchanges and the Medicaid expansion…

And they don’t understand that everyone is in the healthcare marketplace,
consciously or not.

23 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:32:48am

re: #20 NJDhockeyfan

MSNBC:

Obamacare adviser Jonathan Gruber gives Democrats new headache

Shrug by the end of the month, outside a bunch of drama queens are going to forget who this guy even is.

24 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:34:09am

Gotta love conservatives though. It’s okay for their actual office holders and candidates like Christie and Romney to be totally condescending and dismissive to people but the second this guy Gruber says one thing. It’s OMG HOW DARE HE TALK THAT WAY. Really give it a break cons. This is like how you claim you’re not for the PC police ruling everything when it comes to you being bigots about Muslims but the second someone so much as jokes about Christianity, you blow a gasket.

25 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 11:34:18am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

Is that the same Krauthammer that has the ability to diagnosis narcissism in people he’s never met?

Nah—the remote diagnostician is “Fox Medical A-Team Hero” Keith Ablow. (It’s hard to keep the loons straight.)

26 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:35:05am

re: #25 BeachDem

Nah—the remote diagnostician is “Fox Medical A-Team Hero” Keith Ablow. (It’s hard to keep the loons straight.)

I was actually being rhetorical. Krauthammer did in fact claim Obama was a narcissist despite by his own admission never having talked to him. I believe Charles even had a page on Colbert mocking the poor hack on it.

27 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 11:35:43am

This whole Gruber thing was obviously released to coincide with the Supreme Court’s agreement to consider an ACA case. Old, old trick, to try to poison the well of public opinion as much as possible before an important ruling. These videos are not new, and Gruber has not been hiding them.

Sorry, I don’t buy the story about the guy whose employer canceled his coverage, so he just started digging into Jonathan Gruber for no particular reason. It reeks of dirty politics and opposition research.

28 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 11:35:43am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

Shrug by the end of the month, outside a bunch of drama queens are going to forget who this guy even is.

Nuh-uh! I heard that Gruber was heavily influenced by that Ayres guy:

29 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:36:58am

re: #28 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Nuh-uh! I heard that Gruber was heavily influenced by that Ayre’s guy:

[Embedded content]

I heard Gruber one time breathed the same oxygen that Saul Alinsky did.

30 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 11:37:35am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

Shrug by the end of the month, outside a bunch of drama queens are going to forget who this guy even is.

Oh, I very much doubt that. I think we can expect that Republicans will, as part of their push to dismantle ACA, use their new Senate majority to expand the circus they’ve had going in the House over to the higher house, dragging in Gruber to question him about the “lies” in the law while also suggesting that he deserves to be punished for calling Americans “stupid.”

31 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:38:10am

re: #27 Charles Johnson

This whole Gruber thing was obviously released to coincide with the Supreme Court’s agreement to consider an ACA case. Old, old trick, to try to poison the well of public opinion as much as possible before an important ruling. These videos are not new, and Gruber has not been hiding them.

Sorry, I don’t buy the story about the guy whose employer canceled his coverage, so he just started digging into Jonathan Gruber for no particular reason. It reeks of dirty politics and opposition research.

It’s pure desperation and I don’t think it will work. The only people getting outraged over this are people who have wanted ACA repealed from the minute Obama started supporting health care reform.

32 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:39:14am

re: #30 Targetpractice

Oh, I very much doubt that. I think we can expect that Republicans will, as part of their push to dismantle ACA, use their new Senate majority to expand the circus they’ve had going in the House over to the higher house, dragging in Gruber to question him about the “lies” in the law while also suggesting that he deserves to be punished for calling Americans “stupid.”

True point unfortunately.

33 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 11:39:23am
34 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 11:39:31am

I hope someone checked to see if Jonathan Gruber owns a copy of Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. Or belonged to ACORN.

35 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 11:39:35am

re: #26 HappyWarrior

I was actually being rhetorical. Krauthammer did in fact claim Obama was a narcissist despite by his own admission never having talked to him. I believe Charles even had a page on Colbert mocking the poor hack on it.

Ah, apparently I missed that one. It must have been on a Fox talking point memo one week. So, I guess if two Foxy docs have said it, it must be true, right?

36 bratwurst  Nov 14, 2014 11:39:42am

Rush Limbaugh has pretty much turned over his entire show to Gruber today…not even time for a plug of his ghost written children’s books.

37 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:40:31am

re: #36 bratwurst

Rush Limbaugh has pretty much turned over his entire show to Gruber today…not even time for a plug of his ghost written children’s books.

Hahaha the guy who actually called liberals retarded is going to complain about this. Please proceed Rush. Please. The king of being a condescending dickhead is going to complain about this. Man conservatives are even more lame than I thought.

38 krypto  Nov 14, 2014 11:41:08am

The Fox/Rightwing propaganda blitz against ObamaCare is timed to coincide with the start tomorrow, November 15, of open enrollment at the insurance exchanges. A great many Americans are unaware of the open enrollment date.

Even if the timing is not intentional (and I suspect it is) the rightwing propaganda noise has the effect of drowning out news of the open enrollment date for those who do not know about it, and discouraging sign ups for those who might have heard that open enrollment is starting. Fox and the rightwing also had a propaganda blitz aimed at discouraging signups during the previous open enrollment. It happened to fail in the end.

39 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 11:42:22am

re: #27 Charles Johnson

This whole Gruber thing was obviously released to coincide with the Supreme Court’s agreement to consider an ACA case. Old, old trick, to try to poison the well of public opinion as much as possible before an important ruling. These videos are not new, and Gruber has not been hiding them.

Sorry, I don’t buy the story about the guy whose employer canceled his coverage, so he just started digging into Jonathan Gruber for no particular reason. It reeks of dirty politics and opposition research.

We’ve seen this tactic before in politics, linking a law to someone viewed as “irredeemable” for the purpose of attacking the law through them. Hence why they’re hyperfocused on this singular statement, because they want people to be outraged that the guy linked to the ACA called them “stupid” for supporting it.

40 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 11:42:28am
41 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 11:43:21am
42 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 11:44:44am

re: #38 krypto

The Fox/Rightwing propaganda blitz against ObamaCare is timed to coincide with the start tomorrow, November 15, of open enrollment at the insurance exchanges. A great many Americans are unaware of the open enrollment date.

Even if the timing is not intentional (and I suspect it is) the rightwing propaganda noise has the effect of drowning out news of the open enrollment date for those who do not know about it, and discouraging sign ups for those who might have heard that open enrollment is starting. Fox and the rightwing had a similar propaganda blitz trying to discourage signups during the previous open enrollment.

Yes, they’re trying to drive down enrollment, but I imagine that’s all part of the overall effort to portray repeal as “popular” by stirring up public anger and resentment. Getting low numbers on enrollment will be viewed as the law “failing,” despite enrollment this year exceeding initial projections and overcoming months of media-supported Republican hysteria.

43 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 11:49:23am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

Just sit down, and shut up already. And get off the damned beach. /Gov. Christie.

44 nearly-headless smith25  Nov 14, 2014 11:49:31am

If you need to enroll, do it on a trip to the mall in Lexington KY.

45 taserian  Nov 14, 2014 11:50:06am

re: #15 Vicious Piebola

At the beginning of that video, did you hear the lead-in calling it the home of “muscular Christianity”? Do they think that Christ was the proto-Rambo of his time?

46 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 11:50:47am

re: #43 lawhawk

Just sit down, and shut up already. And get off the damned beach. /Gov. Christie.

Leadership!//

47 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 11:54:29am

re: #45 taserian

Click to Reveal


Sorry.

48 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 11:55:28am

re: #45 taserian

At the beginning of that video, did you hear the lead-in calling it the home of “muscular Christianity”? Do they think that Christ was the proto-Rambo of his time?

Mr Torgue is our savior.

49 Dr Lizardo  Nov 14, 2014 11:58:30am

re: #47 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

Jesus Schwarzenchrist?

Wacky.

*smh*

50 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 12:00:00pm

re:;
#45

“muscular Christianity”? Do they think that Christ was the proto-Rambo of his time?

It’s what happens when Christians don’t actually read the Bible.

51 nearly-headless smith25  Nov 14, 2014 12:00:49pm

re: #44 nearly-headless smith25

This is actually, I think, going to be a big indictment of conservative thought, and perhaps a commentary on Race:

As the Christmas shopping season picks up, heading to the malls to pick out the best deals is a time honored tradition. Lexington, the second largest city has one very large mall complex. Every year, thousands of people from outside of the city make their way to Fayette Mall. Many of them from places all over Eastern Kentucky, counties with a very anti-Obama personality. (Bullshitty named War on Coal). There will be citizens from these counties that come by the busload to the mall, because there are no places like this within hours of where they live.

The education level of my state is very low, and the political education level is even lower. The state hates Obamacare, but is in need of affordable insurance that you can get without worry of pre-existing conditions. Due to not knowing that Kynect (the State exchange) and the ACA are the same thing, you are going to get a number of signups over the holidays from the areas that have the lowest amount of insured citizens. This will be a great thing. People won’t be getting health care from the blah guy, (at least that’s what they think)

52 NJDhockeyfan  Nov 14, 2014 12:00:55pm

Well my doctor took a good look a couple months ago and found nothing.

53 NJDhockeyfan  Nov 14, 2014 12:01:44pm

re: #47 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

[Embedded content]

Sorry.

Didn’t he used to play MLB back in the 90s?

54 Vicious Piebola  Nov 14, 2014 12:03:07pm

re: #45 taserian

At the beginning of that video, did you hear the lead-in calling it the home of “muscular Christianity”? Do they think that Christ was the proto-Rambo of his time?

Because, you know, the sissy gays never go for that stuff.
//

55 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 12:03:10pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

Well my doctor took a good look a couple months ago and found nothing.

[Embedded content]

As stated in the past by others, including the esteemed Prof. Farnsworth, the scientific community should finally rename that planet and choose a new name to do away with those silly, immature jokes once and for all. I suggest Urectum… //

56 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 12:03:51pm

re: #49 Dr Lizardo

Jesus Schwarzenchrist?

Wacky.

*smh*

“I eat sinners for breakfast, and right now, I’m very hungry.”

“I’ll be back.”

57 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 12:05:00pm

re: #56 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

“I eat sinners for breakfast, and right now, I’m very hungry.”

“I’ll be back.”

Doesn’t that translate to “Black Christ”?

58 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 12:05:23pm

re: #56 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

“I eat sinners for breakfast, and right now, I’m very hungry.”

“I’ll be back.”

I’ve eaten a sinner for breakfast.

She loved it.

59 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 12:06:46pm

Reminds me of a MadTV skit from nearly a decade ago featuring the Terminator going back through time to save Jesus…

“Your clothes. Give them to me”. “I carry many gifts, good man, but my clothes are not among them”. “What are you, some kind of wiseguy?”

* Sees Jesus’s followers weeping later * “Don’t worry… He’ll be back”

60 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 12:07:50pm

re: #57 Feline Fearless Leader

Doesn’t that translate to “Black Christ”?

Sorta…

61 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 12:11:53pm

re: #59 Ebolangelus

Reminds me of a MadTV skit from nearly a decade ago featuring the Terminator going back through time to save Jesus…

“Your clothes. Give them to me”. “I carry many gifts, good man, but my clothes are not among them”. “What are you, some kind of wiseguy?”

* Sees Jesus’s followers weeping later * “Don’t worry… He’ll be back”

Hahaha I’ve seen that one. I particularly enjoyed the re-enacting of the “why” scene with Jesus ending up saying “Forgive him father, he’s a cyber organism from the future.”

62 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 12:14:05pm

Hmmm… Russia busy with their military machinations and maneuvers, while their economy stagnates and their entire stock market now has a valuation below that of Apple.

If you owned Apple Inc. (AAPL), and sold it, you could purchase the entire stock market of Russia, and still have enough change to buy every Russian an iPhone 6 Plus.

The CHART OF THE DAY shows the total market capitalization of all public companies in the world’s largest country slipped below that of the world’s most-valued company for the first time on record. The gap, at $121 billion on Nov. 12, is about the price of 143 million contract-free 64-gigabyte iPhones, based on Apple Store prices.

The value of Russian equities has slumped $234 billion to $531 billion this year, while Apple gained $147 billion to $652 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The technology company’s innovation and brand value attract investors, while Russia’s political conflicts, sanctions and the threat of economic stagnation next year make them nervous, according to Vadim Bit-Avragim, a portfolio manager who helps oversee about $4 billion at Kapital Asset Management LLC in Moscow.

Apple is valued $121 billion more than the entire Russian stock market.

It’s bigger than Singapore and Italy. Russia is the 20th biggest stock market.

63 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 12:15:43pm

re: #21 Resident of The United States of Jesus

Paying obscene amounts of money for art is one of the ways the 0.001% can compare dick size.

64 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 12:15:54pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Oh yeah, that was a great part - one of my friends still quotes every once in a while…

65 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 12:17:33pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Hmmm… Russia busy with their military machinations and maneuvers, while their economy stagnates and their entire stock market now has a valuation below that of Apple.

Apple is valued $121 billion more than the entire Russian stock market.

It’s bigger than Singapore and Italy. Russia is the 20th biggest stock market.

Wasn’t it just a few months ago that we were being told about the “resurgent” Russia under Tsar Putin, with wingnuts creaming their pants over the idea that he was leading them to glory and thus showing what a “real” leader looks like?

66 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 12:19:05pm

re: #64 Ebolangelus

Oh yeah, that was a great part - one of my friends still quotes every once in a while…

MadTV had some clever skits. My favorite actually and it’s fitting since we’re in the season is the parody of the old Rankin Bass cartoons done in the style of the Godfather or Goodfellas. “Who the fuck am I?” “I’m Yukon Cornelione.”

67 Indy GOP Refugee  Nov 14, 2014 12:20:22pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Connect the dots-Sabre rattling runs up tensions and commodities. Oil is cheap hey run a few tanks into Ukraine, let a sub get detected before it flees, run some bombers close too NATO members.

if this was music it would be classic rock. Putin could make the Hunts bros look like pikers.

68 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 12:20:27pm

OT and apologies if it’s been posted already:

69 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 12:20:56pm

re: #62 lawhawk

Luckily, Putin is the manly man and can compare dicks with the best of’em, even the deceased:
rferl.org

Russian media reports say a big mock iPhone meant as a monument to the late former Apple CEO Steve Jobs has been taken down in St. Petersburg after his successor, Tim Cook, came out publicly as gay.

Take that, Apple!

70 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 12:21:37pm

re: #68 Jenner7

Throw the bastard in jail already.

71 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 12:22:04pm

Also:

72 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 12:25:47pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

This whole Gruber thing was obviously released to coincide with the Supreme Court’s agreement to consider an ACA case. Old, old trick, to try to poison the well of public opinion as much as possible before an important ruling. These videos are not new, and Gruber has not been hiding them.

Sorry, I don’t buy the story about the guy whose employer canceled his coverage, so he just started digging into Jonathan Gruber for no particular reason. It reeks of dirty politics and opposition research.

And if the guy is legit (doubt like you) he would be a great hire for GoatNews and Brainfart…errr, Brietbart.

73 Vicious Piebola  Nov 14, 2014 12:36:37pm

So some nutjob started screaming and hollering because a Muslim was invited to lead the prayers at the National Cathedral
nbcwashington.com

74 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 12:39:26pm

Another day, another Nothing-burger from the RWNJs.

That is all.

And, in spite of this:

This:

Data: Earth has warmest October on record as ocean temperatures set marks - @washingtonpost
read more on washingtonpost.com

If people would only understand that weather and global warming are not the same thing, even though global warming affects the weather we have.

75 blueraven  Nov 14, 2014 12:39:43pm

So ridiculous.
Is McConnell being excoriated for saying about Kentucky Kynect
It is fine to have a website.
Trying to fool the people of Kentucky into thinking he could repeal Obamacare and keep Kynect? Please!

How much was known about the Patriot Act, The authorization for war in Iraq? No one has died over any real or perceived deception regarding the ACA.
Gruber is an ass, lets face it. But the ACA, as policy is the best one feasible in the political climate. Even if not particularly popular, most people do not want to see it repealed. They want it to work.

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 12:40:04pm

Landrieu’s move to push a vote on the pipeline within minutes of Congress returning for the lame-duck session was unexpected, and seen as a move to boost her chances in the runoff against Cassidy.

Landrieu said she “didn’t ask for permission” when going to the floor Wednesday evening to request unanimous consent on a vote to pass a bill that approves construction of the pipeline.

“I didn’t tell Democratic leadership what I was going to do,” she said.

77 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 12:41:00pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

So she’s about to fuck over people in numerous states just to save her own ass. I honestly want to see her lose now.

78 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 12:41:23pm

re: #74 Justanotherhuman

79 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 12:41:42pm

re: #73 Vicious Piebola

Why the fuck do they tell other confessions what to do (or not do)? Build your own cathedral, with blackjack and hookers, and do whatever the fuck you want there.

80 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 12:42:44pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

They make me sick. In the House, our one and only Democratic Rep voted yes. I can’t figure out any earthly reason why. (Trying to find out now.)

If Democrats don’t start acting like Democrats, we are fucking doomed.

81 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 12:42:48pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

She may get her “revenge” for the Dems not pouring more money and attention into her campaign when they knew it was probably a lost cause.

And her pettiness just shows what an unprincipled person she is.

82 leftynyc  Nov 14, 2014 12:43:43pm

I have been shaking my head about this story for several days now. I can’t believe the police are being this stupid about this.

talkingpointsmemo.com

The Minnesota television station under fire for its report accusing Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges of flashing “gang signs” in a photo is unshaken by all the criticism it has received.

KSTP doubled down on its original accusations in a new report that aired Thursday night. The news station switched its focus from Hodges to Navell Gordon, the man it previously identified only as the “criminal” who posed with the mayor, and revealed details about his criminal history the station said it purposefully left out of its first report.

83 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 12:44:06pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

So she’s about to fuck over people in numerous states just to save her own ass. I honestly want to see her lose now.

I’m pretty sure you’ll get your wish. I think she would have lost either way, and shame on the Dems who are supporting this bullshit.

84 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 12:45:01pm

re: #75 blueraven

Gruber was addressing the political ramifications of trying to pass legislation and how the process is designed with obfuscation and smoke and mirrors - that applies to all legislation, not just the PPACA, which got more scrutiny than most.

And Gallup just announced today that 71% of people who actually get their insurance through the exchanges either find the insurance good or excellent. Only 9% consider it poor.

That’s the real problem for the GOP. Once people understand that insurance is a good thing - and they’re paying for it, they will not want to see it dismantled and destroyed by the GOP. That’s why they’re pushing misdirection plays and misinformation campaigns.

It’s worked for them with Halbig and Hobby Lobby (along with willing accomplices in business and the state level that want to see the ACA dismantled and destroyed).

85 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 12:45:34pm

Oh, to be in Cleveland!

33 Photos of a Late Fall Snow Storm in Downtown Cleveland

clevescene.com

Lake effect snow, like we got in Buffalo when I was a kid. : )

86 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 12:45:49pm

re: #82 leftynyc

I have been shaking my head about this story for several days now. I can’t believe the police are being this stupid about this.

talkingpointsmemo.com

The Minnesota television station under fire for its report accusing Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges of flashing “gang signs” in a photo is unshaken by all the criticism it has received.

KSTP doubled down on its original accusations in a new report that aired Thursday night. The news station switched its focus from Hodges to Navell Gordon, the man it previously identified only as the “criminal” who posed with the mayor, and revealed details about his criminal history the station said it purposefully left out of its first report.

They’re not being stupid. They’re getting back at the mayor who was critical of some of the things that the department had done.

It’s a tit for tat, and they’re using a bogus claim to spread their smear.

87 makeitstop  Nov 14, 2014 12:47:40pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

So she’s about to fuck over people in numerous states just to save her own ass. I honestly want to see her lose now.

Yeah, that’s one craven move right there. Desperate times, etc.

88 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 12:49:02pm

re: #82 leftynyc

I have been shaking my head about this story for several days now. I can’t believe the police are being this stupid about this.

talkingpointsmemo.com

The Minnesota television station under fire for its report accusing Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges of flashing “gang signs” in a photo is unshaken by all the criticism it has received.

KSTP doubled down on its original accusations in a new report that aired Thursday night. The news station switched its focus from Hodges to Navell Gordon, the man it previously identified only as the “criminal” who posed with the mayor, and revealed details about his criminal history the station said it purposefully left out of its first report.

So they switched their line of attack after the mayor called them and the police out for being slimeballs. So KKKlassy.

Mayor Roasts Police Who Accused Her Of Flashing ‘Gang Signs

talkingpointsmemo.com

89 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 12:50:00pm

re: #75 blueraven

So ridiculous.
Is McConnell being excoriated for saying about Kentucky Kynect
It is fine to have a website.
Trying to fool the people of Kentucky into thinking he could repeal Obamacare and keep Kynect? Please!

How much was known about the Patriot Act, The authorization for war in Iraq? No one has died over any real or perceived deception regarding the ACA.
Gruber is an ass, lets face it. But the ACA, as policy is the best one feasible in the political climate. Even if not particularly popular, most people do not want to see it repealed. They want it to work.

Go back even further. How much was known and how much was blown on “Star Wars?” The fact that it was claimed to be one of the reasons the USSR collapsed and the Berlin wall fell seemed to stop all questions about what the US got out of all those bucks?

90 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 12:52:43pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

So she’s about to fuck over people in numerous states just to save her own ass. I honestly want to see her lose now.

She probably figures the Gulf got screwed up with the BP drilling spills, so why shouldn’t the other states be burdened with big oil messing up in their states too. It’s only fair, right?

///

91 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 12:58:47pm

re: #85 Justanotherhuman

Oh, to be in Cleveland!

33 Photos of a Late Fall Snow Storm in Downtown Cleveland

clevescene.com

Lake effect snow, like we got in Buffalo when I was a kid. : )

That’s the Cleveland I remember. That whole area from Cleveland on through Erie PA, up to Buffalo and Niagara, then east to Rochester and Syracuse is truly the snow belt. The fact it was warm right up to where this arctic bubble comes in this week is going to hammer them hard. All of Lakes Erie and Ontario are still warm waters. With that blast of cold blowing across them, they will have a snow machine they probably haven’t seen in years.

92 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 12:59:57pm
93 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:02:30pm

Walmart Workers Promise Biggest Black Friday Strike Ever

thinkprogress.org

“[Barbara] Gertz explained why she’s planning to take part. “There have been many times my family can’t even afford the gas to get me back and forth to work, so my husband had to wait in the car to take me home after work,” she said on a call with the press. “Every time one of us speaks out for change, we take the risk that Walmart will fire us. That’s not right and that’s not legal. That’s why we’re going on strike.” The National Labor Relations Board has backed up some of the claims of retaliation against organizing workers.

“She noted that while the company has made some changes — it has announced an increase in the wage for its lowest-paid employees above the federal floor of $7.25 an hour, overhauled its scheduling program, and made some changes for pregnant employees — “associates are still struggling and our stores are still understaffed.” Striking Walmart workers have been calling for $15 an hour, more full-time work, and an end to retaliation to those trying to form a union over the past two years, and those demands were repeated on Thursday as they staged the first-ever sit-in strike.

“Workers have gone on strike and protested for the past two Black Fridays. This time, they will also be joined by “tens of thousands” of community members, according to Stephanie Ly, AFT New Mexico president and a teacher, the “largest mobilizing of working families we’ve seen in recent history.” Teachers, elected officials, members of the clergy, and others will participate in protests at stores, flash mobs, marches, and prayer vigils.” More

94 Indy GOP Refugee  Nov 14, 2014 1:03:41pm

re: #89 ObserverArt

Wait a sec.Bigger picture a minute. Why did we ever ever get to where vague/misleading language legislation was acceptable? Are we doomed to accept it forever because of partisan tit for tat? “Because back when” is no good excuse to accept any of it.

I can answer my own rhetorical question. Because so many routinely accept this kind of thing from their side of the aisle. No wonder than that indy’s are such a large number of voters. This is a consequence of an inability to see past party privilege. Kinda like white privilege. it’s okay from the guys we like.

95 blueraven  Nov 14, 2014 1:04:55pm

re: #84 lawhawk

Gruber was addressing the political ramifications of trying to pass legislation and how the process is designed with obfuscation and smoke and mirrors - that applies to all legislation, not just the PPACA, which got more scrutiny than most.

And Gallup just announced today that 71% of people who actually get their insurance through the exchanges either find the insurance good or excellent. Only 9% consider it poor.

That’s the real problem for the GOP. Once people understand that insurance is a good thing - and they’re paying for it, they will not want to see it dismantled and destroyed by the GOP. That’s why they’re pushing misdirection plays and misinformation campaigns.

It’s worked for them with Halbig and Hobby Lobby (along with willing accomplices in business and the state level that want to see the ACA dismantled and destroyed).

Yes, the ACA is popular with people who use it…but it is still underwater with the general electorate. This will not help.

Gruber is still an ass. I mean really, you just cant go around calling the voters stupid. It will always come back to bite you and hurt the policy you are advocating for.

I know he is not a politician, but this aint rocket science.
I get what he was trying to say and it is all true, but he needs to go find some damn common sense.

96 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:05:51pm

Down Under for the G20 summit…

President Obama arrives at the Marriott Hotel in Brisbane, waving at bystanders from his motorcade vehicle - @TheLucindaKent
see original on twitter.com

and

Queensland, Australia, police: We have no credible intelligence about specific threats to world leaders at the G20 Summit - @SBSNews
read more on sbs.com.au

97 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 1:06:05pm

Me gusta.

98 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 1:08:29pm

re: #86 lawhawk

Because we just can’t hold police officer’s accountable. They are infallible.

// just in case. ;)

99 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 1:10:12pm

re:
#273

So some nutjob started screaming and hollering because a Muslim was invited to lead the prayers at the National Cathedral.

Stay classy…

100 bratwurst  Nov 14, 2014 1:12:45pm
101 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 1:12:45pm

re:
#73

In advance of the prayer service, Franklin Graham — son of evangelist Billy Graham — criticized the decision on Facebook.

Dear Franklin, have a warm cup of STFU.

102 Vicious Piebola  Nov 14, 2014 1:13:06pm

re: #97 Kragar

Me gusta.

[Embedded content]

That is an amazing cappuccino maker!

103 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 1:14:11pm

re: #94 Indy GOP Refugee

It was acceptable from the time when people say that they want something, but don’t want to pay for it. So politicians have found ways to make that “happen”. Like unfunded pension obligations. Empty transportation trust funds. Taking rainy day funds and using them to plug general budget fund deficits. Refusing to raise fuel taxes to pay for infrastructure even though everyone knows that the taxes haven’t kept up with the costs to maintain that infrastructure, let alone improve it. Expanding lotteries and claiming that the money will go to education, and then diverting general funds meant for education to go to other purposes so that the education spending is the same or less than before.

This isn’t something new.

104 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 1:14:45pm

re: #102 Vicious Piebola

That is an amazing cappuccino maker!

I was gonna say it needed to pick up that towel and get to work on the dishes…

105 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 1:18:10pm

re: #102 Vicious Piebola

That is an amazing cappuccino maker!

106 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 1:18:38pm

How Fox News Fails Cultural Conservatives

But when it comes to mass broadcast outlets, consider the fact that a staunch cultural conservative like Rod Dreher, who homeschools his family with his wife, would be far more comfortable exposing his children to the entertainment coverage of NPR than Fox News. The former dips a toe in low culture, as do we all, and doesn’t entirely protect its listeners from the drift toward a hyper-sexualized America. But Fox News entertainment coverage focuses obsessively on sex…

107 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 1:18:41pm

Nothing Gruber said was incorrect. If these idiots actually took the time to watch the ENTIRE videos or read the ENTIRE interviews they would learn A LOT of how health care is funded in this country. Maybe that’s why the right is in such Linda Blair mode about it. It’s shameful, actually.

108 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 1:18:48pm

re: #93 Justanotherhuman

The company has admitted that less than half of its workforce makes more than $25,000. But it could easily raise pay by ending stock buybacks or raising the cost of an item like a DVD by a penny.

I hope it works. My youngest daughter works at WalMart, but is afraid she’ll lose her job if she joins in. She has two kids, and her husband is a disabled vet.

109 Varek Raith  Nov 14, 2014 1:21:02pm

You know what I find most disgusting about this whole Hans Gruber thing?
How elated conservatives are at the prospect of millions losing insurance.
I mean, WTF?

110 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 1:22:01pm

Gruber

dear right wing,

mr gruber is correct - you are a bunch of morons.

regards,

111 leftynyc  Nov 14, 2014 1:22:13pm

Well, I have to admit being very surprised at this story:

msn.com

Hegwood was accused of sending insensitive comments from her personal Twitter account on Nov. 7. She had apologized.

“Who the [expletive] made you dumb [expletives] think I give a squat [expletive] about your opinions. #Ferguson Kill yourselves,” read one of the messages Hegwood allegedly sent.

In the statement, the district said Hegwood was given an opportunity to explain her version of the events, but trustees unanimously decided to terminate her.

112 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 1:23:10pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

You know what I find most disgusting about this whole Hans Gruber thing?
How elated conservatives are at the prospect of millions losing insurance.
I mean, WTF?

No kidding. What galls me is how many of them like Cruz rail against @bog government medicine” yet have zero problem having that themselves,

113 Indy GOP Refugee  Nov 14, 2014 1:23:43pm

re: #103 lawhawk

Of the SAFE act in NY that is had all these wonderful promises, and is disenfrachising gun owners who may or may not have a mental problem into the same kind of legal jam as a bicoastal commuter who may or may not be a risk put onto the no fly list. Aribtrary, failed oversight, rubber stamp protocol.

Or those Buffalo police showing up when a gun owner passes away to chat with the family about the handguns. Preemptively.

It’s not just money. It’s right across the board.

114 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:25:02pm

re: #89 ObserverArt

Go back even further. How much was known and how much was blown on “Star Wars?” The fact that it was claimed to be one of the reasons the USSR collapsed and the Berlin wall fell seemed to stop all questions about what the US got out of all those bucks?

Ask people from Pripyat, Ukraine, why they think the Soviet Union collapsed.

telegraph.co.uk

115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 1:25:15pm
116 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 1:27:47pm

re: #110 dog philosopher

Gruber

dear right wing,

mr gruber is correct - you are a bunch of morons.

regards,

117 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 1:28:14pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And this is why federal regulations and unions are needed still. I hope they convict him of every charge against him and he doesn’t get to spend another day as a free man again. His total disregard for safety got people killed.

118 hydrolik  Nov 14, 2014 1:31:18pm

Fox News reports Grubergate 389 days after event. Unbiased conservative journalism.
Others report Grubergate 392 days after event. LIBRUL MEDIA BIAS!

119 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 1:31:52pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

Business as usual in the American Dream.

120 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 1:31:54pm

Correction, Gruber was wrong in saying that Ted Kennedy had created a slush fund to pump $400M into SafeNet and MassHealth. That was actually a provision in a Medicaid bill signed by Clinton, and ROMNEYBOT went to President Bush to ask if they could use the funds for Romeycare and Bush said yes. Has Megyn Kelly demanded that Romney come on her show and explain himself?

121 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 1:32:08pm
122 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:32:11pm

re: #111 leftynyc

Well, I have to admit being very surprised at this story:

msn.com

Hegwood was accused of sending insensitive comments from her personal Twitter account on Nov. 7. She had apologized.

“Who the [expletive] made you dumb [expletives] think I give a squat [expletive] about your opinions. #Ferguson Kill yourselves,” read one of the messages Hegwood allegedly sent.

In the statement, the district said Hegwood was given an opportunity to explain her version of the events, but trustees unanimously decided to terminate her.

And the RWNJs of course are all over this.

Buttressing their position that Niclangs! are as racist as any white person could be…

From Britefart, for instance (not gonna link):

Therealpatriot2013jrd Petra Nadal • 4 days ago
Now that is the kind of teacher everyone should want teaching their kids….ha.
sarcasm galore. Blacks are the racists and project it on whites…..

123 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 1:33:38pm

re: #120 Kid A

Correction, Gruber was wrong in saying that Ted Kennedy had created a slush fund to pump $400M into SafeNet and MassHealth. That was actually a provision in a Medicaid bill signed by Clinton, and ROMNEYBOT went to President Bush to ask if they could use the funds for Romeycare and Bush said yes. Has Megyn Kelly demanded that Romney come on her show and explain himself?

Of course not. Fox isn’t allowed to make Republicans look bad silly. it really is telling that the guy who runs Fox, Ailes was one of Nixon’s biggest hatchetmen.

124 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 1:34:27pm

I mean imagine if you will if MSNBC was run by James Carville or Dave Axelrod, that’s what Fox is.Not to mention that Ailes signed off on the now infamous Willie Horton ad.

125 Nano b  Nov 14, 2014 1:35:49pm

So it is fine to be outraged at a scientist who lands a probe on a comet because he wore the wrong shirt (made by his girlfriend as a joke) but not to be pissed at a smug asshole expressing his disdain for the democratic process. Priorities folks.

126 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 1:36:18pm

re: #94 Indy GOP Refugee

Wait a sec.Bigger picture a minute. Why did we ever ever get to where vague/misleading language legislation was acceptable? Are we doomed to accept it forever because of partisan tit for tat? “Because back when” is no good excuse to accept any of it.

I can answer my own rhetorical question. Because so many routinely accept this kind of thing from their side of the aisle. No wonder than that indy’s are such a large number of voters. This is a consequence of an inability to see past party privilege. Kinda like white privilege. it’s okay from the guys we like.

Whoa cowboy. I only posted that as an example that it has been going on a long time. I wasn’t using at as a tit-for-tat excuse, thank you.

I was using Star Wars as an example that people often don’t even need vague words to be confused or have the wool pulled over their eyes. A good scare will do. See Patriot Act. As a country we were going to let Bush do whatever because we were ‘at war’ and no one read shit in that legislation. Star Wars was the same. It was okay because everyone (especially conservatives) is all for strong defense. If it brings down the dreaded Ruskies…so be it. So they could have done whatever with all that money.

At least with the ACA someone is getting some damn benefits.

And please, do not associate me with “it’s okay from the guys we like.” The only thing I will say or defend is when dealing with deception that is taken as the truth, truth will no longer work. Does that mean you get into the mud hole with them? It just might, or you are not in the game at all.

I love idealism. I practice it myself too. And I will also admit, it sometimes has no place when matched against reality. So do you sit in the corner and play nice and get beat by the bully, or do you get up and fight the bully by resorting to not being nice for a bit so that you can go back to being nice later when you get some control over the situation?

Add in the level of education and political awareness in this country and all bets are off. Most people can’t even read well. They sure as hell aren’t going to understand legalese. To me one party has figured out how to work their politics in that realm and the other party is faced to match it to be able to fight past it.

Tax as a word is a great example. Taxes have helped this country grow to where it is today.

Tax to a Republican is now a bad word. If you want to pass legislation, do you fall into the Republican trap and come out and call it a tax? You’d be a fool. They worded around it to get the legislation through. It seems to have helped. Whose side is really at fault? Have you heard many Democrats run away form proper and needed taxation. Has any Democrat made “tax” a four letter word? The Republican have. There is your problem.

Hell, you try to educate and you get beat up by FOX fair and balanced claptrap. Or Chuck Todd types telling you it isn’t their job to explain shit. Or CNN that , well hell, I have no clue what CNN does. I wonder if they do. So, if you are a straight shooter with clear language, how long are you going to last?

127 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 1:37:05pm

re: #121 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

So what the GOP is really doing is trying to set up two years of crisis-to-crisis governing, repeatedly engaging in hostage-taking in order to get the President to agree to give them that which they can’t get through legislative means.

In other words, more of the same.

Fuck’em, pass the damned executive order. Or better yet, call Boehner out by saying the EO will be traded for a vote on the Senate immigration reform bill. I can’t imagine he’ll do anything but bleat that he won’t make deals to stop the President for exercising the authority of his office.

128 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 1:37:34pm

Hello, what do we have here?

129 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 1:38:24pm

re: #97 Kragar

Me gusta.

[Embedded content]

Did one of your usual models get into the steroids or something? That sucker is big!

130 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 1:39:22pm

re: #125 Nano b

Take it to Gateway Douche. That’s where the lowest common denominator lives, you’ll fit right in.

131 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 1:39:47pm

re: #128 Kid A

Hello, what do we have here?

Another nonsensical hatchling, it appears.

132 Vicious Piebola  Nov 14, 2014 1:41:18pm

re: #125 Nano b

go away

133 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 1:41:20pm

re: #129 ObserverArt

Did one of your usual models get into the steroids or something? That sucker is big!

Not mine. That would be a Warlord class Battle Titan, used as a mobile siege platform and battle station.

134 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 1:41:27pm

re: #94 Indy GOP Refugee

Wait a sec.Bigger picture a minute. Why did we ever ever get to where vague/misleading language legislation was acceptable? Are we doomed to accept it forever because of partisan tit for tat? “Because back when” is no good excuse to accept any of it.

I can answer my own rhetorical question. Because so many routinely accept this kind of thing from their side of the aisle. No wonder than that indy’s are such a large number of voters. This is a consequence of an inability to see past party privilege. Kinda like white privilege. it’s okay from the guys we like.

I still fail to see how anyone who focuses on issues to determine their votes could possibly swing between the Democrats and the Republicans from one election to the next in the 21st century.

Either one approves of the GOP stance on the issues or one does not.

135 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Nov 14, 2014 1:41:39pm

re:
#125

not to be pissed at a smug asshole expressing his disdain for the democratic process.

We’ve been plenty pissed at the GOPteabag Party.

136 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 1:41:43pm

re: #126 ObserverArt

Taxes = revenue raisers = fees = theft of income = evil.

That’s the progression from what a tax is, to where the GOP sees it today (left to right). You can see how the rhetoric about what a given tax law will do - and what a tax hike is called - it’s a revenue raiser if you’re a GOPer, a threat to American individualism if you’re a libertarian, or a theft of income if you’re a Randian mo-ron.

Never mind that taxes helped pay for the infrastructure and public services that the GOP would turn its back on in a heartbeat (education, law enforcement, fire protection, military, postal service, etc.)

137 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:44:38pm

re: #125 Nano b

So it is fine to be outraged at a scientist who lands a probe on a comet because he wore the wrong shirt (made by his girlfriend as a joke) but not to be pissed at a smug asshole expressing his disdain for the democratic process. Priorities folks.

Does said girlfriend work in a Chinese sweatshop?

I’m surprised that he would have a girlfriend at all.

138 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 1:44:58pm

re: #136 lawhawk

Taxes = revenue raisers = fees = theft of income = evil.

That’s the progression from what a tax is, to where the GOP sees it today (left to right). You can see how the rhetoric about what a given tax law will do - and what a tax hike is called - it’s a revenue raiser if you’re a GOPer, a threat to American individualism if you’re a libertarian, or a theft of income if you’re a Randian mo-ron.

Never mind that taxes helped pay for the infrastructure and public services that the GOP would turn its back on in a heartbeat (education, law enforcement, fire protection, military, postal service, etc.)

I blame that tool Norquist for a lot of that. In the past, you had some Republicans that were willing to understand that tax increases are sometimes needed. Now, one vote for a tax increase and Grover paints you as left of Marx and you’ve got a primary date with a lunatic who doesn’t understand basic spending principles. Conservatives want to tell you that the only way you can balance a budget these days is through cutting “entitlement” programs and cutting taxes on the very wealthy, and that’s just not true. If President Bush and his economic advisers had sense rather than just catering to the no tax crowd, then maybe we wouldn’t be in the mess that they got us in.

139 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 1:50:44pm

re: #100 bratwurst

Until I got to the “punchline” I thought it was the Republicans new health care plan. Seriously.

140 ObserverArt  Nov 14, 2014 1:54:14pm

Later…time to gather up some dinner and get ready for some jammin’ time.

Watch the words and look out for angry balance fairies.

141 ramex  Nov 14, 2014 1:54:22pm

re: #125 Nano b

I didn’t know about the shirt. I would have never known about the shirt, but you had to come in here and bring up the shirt, and now I know about the shirt, and yes, I don’t care much for the shirt, but I’m one of those sensitive liberal types who won’t even wear a band tee-shirt if the band put an image of a gun on it. I don’t want anyone thinking I’m up for violence, and on that front, neither would I want anyone thinking I’m up for violence against women.

142 taserian  Nov 14, 2014 1:54:43pm

re: #136 lawhawk

Never mind that taxes helped pay for the infrastructure and public services that the GOP would turn its back on in a heartbeat (education, law enforcement, fire protection, military, postal service, etc.)

Not to mention that taxes rates were reduced during wartime. Regardless of the nonsensical premise of the war and its futility, reducing your flow of income while borrowing and spending with wild abandon isn’t something a party basing itself on common sense would do.

143 hydrolik  Nov 14, 2014 1:56:24pm

Remember all those times when conservatives conveniently ignored Gruber as a hack and shill when he said Republicans were lying and being deceptive about Obamacare, but now all of a sudden his year-old quote(s) are the unequivocal Gospel?

Like this Gruber quote regarding Obamacare and Romneycare being one in the same…remember the conservative outrage?!

Because they’re the same fucking bill. He [Romney] just can’t have his cake and eat it too. Basically, you know, it’s the same bill. He can try to draw distinctions and stuff, but he’s just lying.

144 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 1:56:40pm

re: #142 taserian

Not to mention that taxes rates were reduced during wartime. Regardless of the nonsensical premise of the war and its futility, reducing your flow of income while borrowing and spending with wild abandon isn’t something a party basing itself on common sense would do.

The GOP deliberately ran up the debt during the W Bush years. The whole point of this is to justify gutting social security and medicare. It’s even better for the GOP if the Democrats buy into that way of getting the budget to make sense.

145 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 1:57:40pm

re: #143 hydrolik

Remember all those times when conservatives conveniently ignored Gruber as a hack and shill when he said Republicans were lying and being deceptive about Obamacare, but now all of a sudden his year-old quote(s) are the unequivocal Gospel?

Like this Gruber quote regarding Obamacare and Romneycare being one in the same…remember the conservative outrage?!

Good catch. So the entire RWNJ media is into quote mining, a favorite pastime of creationists and other cranks.

146 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:58:09pm

Ugh.

India test-fires nuclear-capable Dhanush ballistic missile from a naval ship off the Odisha coast - @PTI_News .
read more on ndtv.com

147 Nano b  Nov 14, 2014 1:58:49pm

re: #130 Kid A

So, so easy to set off the little green outrage, thanks for rising to the bait!

148 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:59:26pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

Good catch. So the entire RWNJ media is into quote mining, a favorite pastime of creationists and other cranks.

Hey now, where do you think “creationists and other cranks” got that tactic?

149 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 1:59:59pm

re: #147 Nano b

So, so easy to set off the little green outrage, thanks for rising to the bait!

Going to play in traffic now?

150 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:01:16pm

Really, we haven’t had a decent troll in a very long time.
All these newest ones lately make no sense at all.

151 iossarian  Nov 14, 2014 2:03:14pm

My life is complete: I made a sarcastic comment and someone told me to fuck off.

152 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Nov 14, 2014 2:04:06pm

Strangely enough, when I hear “Gruber!” here’s the first thing I think of:

Do you suppose I’m old?

153 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:05:56pm

re: #152 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Strangely enough, when I hear “Gruber!” here’s the first thing I think of:

[Embedded content]

Do you suppose I’m old?

yes.
Come sit over by me in the old farts corner.

154 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:06:49pm

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

yes.
Come sit over by my in the old farts corner.

I thought I smelled something. J/K.

155 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:06:58pm

In case anyone was wondering:

156 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 2:09:27pm

I think the wingnuts are making a big deal over this Gruber whatever it is to keep Mitt out of 2016 as much as anything.

157 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:09:31pm

re: #155 Backwoods_Sleuth

In case anyone was wondering:

[Embedded content]

I want to make an Al Green joke but I don’t know how to make it clever.

158 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:10:29pm

re: #156 bill d

I think the wingnuts are making a big deal over this Gruber whatever it is to keep Mitt out of the 2016 as much as anything.

Hmmm maybe but I think Grubergate or no Grubergate, Mitt really thinks the American people deserve him.

159 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:10:52pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Hmmm maybe but I think Grubergate or no Grubergate, Mitt really thinks the American people deserve him.

Well, at the very least, Ann thinks so.

160 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 2:11:23pm

re: #125 Nano b

161 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:12:31pm

re: #159 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, at the very least, Ann thinks so.

Yeah, I actually and this was amazing since he’s the most unlikable guy I’ve ever seen nominated by a major party for president in my lifetime but I found Ann more unlikable than I did Mitt.

162 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:13:00pm

re: #160 Ebolangelus

Fascinating that the hatchling pretty much admits it arrived just to deliberately stink up the place.
Really, the quality of trolls here is definitely on the decline.

163 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:14:07pm

Pretty sure I’m up to date on all the comments downstairs, but has this been mentioned or did I miss it?

164 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 2:14:31pm

re: #162 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yup, and it’s been that way for a long while. I remember when trolling used to mean something in bygone years long past… /

165 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:14:59pm

Thom Tillis being sued by present and former govs of NC for violating separation of powers when he was Speaker of the House by creating commissions through legislation.

Tillis was recently elected a Senator from NC.

166 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:15:38pm

re: #163 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pretty sure I’m up to date on all the comments downstairs, but has this been mentioned or did I miss it?

[Embedded content]

Remind again who the nanny staters are? Permission slips for Papa and the original Marky Mark? I was reading Camus and Kafka at that age by the way.

167 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 2:18:05pm

re: #163 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pretty sure I’m up to date on all the comments downstairs, but has this been mentioned or did I miss it?

[Embedded content]

168 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:19:27pm

My friend Del has been busy in his kitchen again…

169 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:20:26pm

you know, I think it really benefits kids to read things outside their comfort zone. As I got at, I read some Kafka and Camus my senior year. And man I have to confess. I really didn’t like it but it did expose me to some literature and styles of writing that I never would have explored on my own. I always enjoyed English class because of the wide variety of material we’d read. I remember in seventh grade reading The Monsters on Mulberry Street which ended up being a Twilight Zone ep and we read some Tennyson that same year. I think some parents really need to let the teachers teach. It’s not healthy for a child to be sheltered from material just because it has some unpleasant material.

170 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:20:53pm

re: #168 Backwoods_Sleuth

My friend Del has been busy in his kitchen again…

[Embedded content]

Slainte.

171 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:21:18pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

Remind again who the nanny staters are? Permission slips for Papa and the original Marky Mark? I was reading Camus and Kafka at that age by the way.

Haha, I was reading Henry Miller and Norman Mailer at 16.

172 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:22:01pm

“Beware of the person of one book.”
Thomas Aquinas

173 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:22:50pm

re: #171 Justanotherhuman

Haha, I was reading Henry Miller and Norman Mailer at 16.

It was required. And it really befuddled me at first but that first exposure to Kafka really prepared me very well for when I took my mandatory English comp class for my minor when we had to read The Trial. I was though reading All Quiet on the Western Front on my own at age 15 though.

174 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:23:48pm

re: #171 Justanotherhuman

Haha, I was reading Henry Miller and Norman Mailer at 16.

Heinlein, Niven, Asimov, and Bradbury for me around that time frame

175 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:24:43pm

My kids don’t understand how I can read a book in a day.

176 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:25:59pm

I actually remember sophomore year being required to read the first half of Richard Wright’s Black Boy. We had to stop when Richard moves from his native Mississippi to Chicago but man I could not put that book down. I ended finishing it. Didn’t read it again for like another nine years when I decided to re-read it and make Wright a focus of a freewrite term paper I had in post WWII literature. He’s still one of my favorite writers.

177 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 2:26:32pm

re: #155 Backwoods_Sleuth

In case anyone was wondering:

[Embedded content]

OK—the Southern Democrats:

Barrow, GA—he lost re-election (last white Southern Democrat in Congress), so could have been a Democrat for his swan song and voted no

newrepublic.com

Clyburn, SC—that’s the one that confounds me—no reason I can think of for his vote

Haven’t had time to research the rest.

178 iossarian  Nov 14, 2014 2:27:31pm

re: #174 Kragar

Heinlein, Niven, Asimov, and Bradbury for me around that time frame

Orwell, also Asimov, Catch-22 unless that was a little later. WWI poetry and then Shakespeare and Henry James in school.

179 OhNoZombies!  Nov 14, 2014 2:28:25pm

re: #12 lawhawk

There’s an entire art form devoted to how referendum/public questions/ballot initiatives phrased on ballots so as to result in the exact opposite result as intended.

More than 200 years of jurisprudence in the US at the federal and state level relies on the legislative histories to help untangle what the intention of laws are meant to be as originally framed. This isn’t just some admission that drafters have purposes other than publicly stated or that the drafters are sometimes at cross purposes with each other because of constituencies they’re trying to placate.

The drafting of the PPACA was fraught with the need to get enough people on board - so they tried to frame the individual mandate as something other than a tax, even if it was based in the Internal Revenue Code (and the S.Ct. ruled it a tax in any event). There are indeed tax components to the ACA, and there are people who are ignorant of the rationales, purposes, and benefits of the ACA to all Americans from expanding access to health insurance via exchanges and the Medicaid expansion to those who don’t meet the qualifications for subsidies.

And those people are GOPers/right wingers.

Because they apparently don’t understand that a healthy workforce is a more efficient workforce, and that it can bend the health care cost curve down - by applying efficiencies of scale to get price breaks that otherwise wouldn’t be given.

And in any event, the US health costs still exceed those of other Western countries with not much to show for it in terms of higher life expectancies. We get the bill for high costs, but not the benefits.

Now how am I supposed to read all them words you wrote there?
I ain’t no commie.

180 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:29:13pm

I remember this Liam O’Flaherty short story standing out to me even then.I actually like short stories even more than I do regular novels. Joyce’s Dubliners is one of my all time favorites and I’ve been reading The Collected Short Stories of John Cheever on and off again for the past four years.

classicshorts.com

181 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:30:33pm

re: #175 Kragar

My kids don’t understand how I can read a book in a day.

My stepkids use to try to engage me in conversation or some other activity when I was reading because they equating reading with being bored.
I gave them science fiction and fantasy to read, and they all ended up evolving into huge readers themselves.

182 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:33:21pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

It was required. And it really befuddled me at first but that first exposure to Kafka really prepared me very well for when I took my mandatory English comp class for my minor when we had to read The Trial. I was though reading All Quiet on the Western Front on my own at age 15 though.

Was that in the ’50s too? Miller’s Tropic of Cancer was banned in the US for years—it wasn’t until 1964 that the SC ruled it wasn’t “obscene” even though you could get a copy if you looked hard enough. I thought it was pretty boring. The Naked and the Deadhad been out since 1948, and I got that one from the library—I thought it was much better writing.

Most teachers wouldn’t recommend those, except Mrs. Tannenbaum, my 11th grade English teacher, who was pretty liberal for that time.

183 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:37:08pm

re: #182 Justanotherhuman

Was that in the ’50s too? Miller’s Tropic of Cancer was banned in the US for years—it wasn’t until 1964 that the SC ruled it wasn’t “obscene” even though you could get a copy if you looked hard enough. I thought it was pretty boring. The Naked and the Deadhad been out since 1948, and I got that one from the library—I thought it was much better writing.

Most teachers wouldn’t recommend those, except Mrs. Tannenbaum, my 11th grade English teacher, who was pretty liberal for that time.

All Quiet? No that was written in 29 I want to say. Its author was an a veteran of the war. It’s the war novel that has stood with me the most over the years since I always find myself forgetting that our nation was at war with the characters in the novel but it doesn’t matter. You see the characters as fellow men and nationality way beyond which I guess is why the Nazis hated it so much. Kafka was I think writing from about the mid 10’s through the mid 20’s or so. I actually saw his home when I was in Prague. A huge outsider, Jewish and a German speaker in a Czech speaking country.

184 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 2:37:20pm

iirc, henry miller had some entertaining descriptions of just how many items of archaic underwear needed to be removed in order to have wild spur of the moment bohemian sex in the year 1911

185 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:38:13pm

re: #183 HappyWarrior

All Quiet? No that was written in 29 I want to say. Its author was an a veteran of the war. It’s the war novel that has stood with me the most over the years since I always find myself forgetting that our nation was at war with the characters in the novel but it doesn’t matter. You see the characters as fellow men and nationality way beyond which I guess is why the Nazis hated it so much. Kafka was I think writing from about the mid 10’s through the mid 20’s or so. I actually saw his home when I was in Prague. A huge outsider, Jewish and a German speaker in a Czech speaking country.

No, I know about All Quiet. I meant when you were reading what you mentioned?

186 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:38:46pm

I was really surprised to see How To Eat Fried Worms was among the most heavily challenged books. I also did not know that the author was Norman Rockwell’s son. I just remember that being a fun book. Real silly IIRC.

187 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:39:10pm

re: #185 Justanotherhuman

No, I know about All Quiet. I meant when you were reading what you mentioned?

oh the 50’s? Nah. Mid 00’s. I’m only 27.

188 Varek Raith  Nov 14, 2014 2:39:34pm

re: #187 HappyWarrior

oh the 50’s? Nah. Mid 00’s. I’m only 27.

Get off my lawn.

189 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:39:58pm

re: #188 Varek Raith

Get off my lawn.

Make me old man!

190 Romantic Heretic  Nov 14, 2014 2:39:59pm

re: #100 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

I’ve heard all of those at one time or another in my life.

191 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:41:43pm

I think I’m the only millennial never to have read any of the Harry Potter books (and don’t try to convince me) but I did always appreciate those books for making people my age appreciate reading. Still remember first hearing about those books in seventh grade because quite a few kids had did The Goblet of Fire as their summer reading book. I forget what I did. I had a harder time with fiction in those days.

192 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 2:42:08pm

re: #187 HappyWarrior

oh the 50’s? Nah. Mid 00’s. I’m only 27.

These young whippersnappers today.

/

193 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:42:38pm

re: #183 HappyWarrior

This is kind of odd, since my grandson isn’t known to be an avid reader, but out of all my books, he chose The Trial as his bedside reading. I was both surprised and thrilled. : )

194 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:43:59pm

re: #181 Backwoods_Sleuth

My stepkids use to try to engage me in conversation or some other activity when I was reading because they equating reading with being bored.
I gave them science fiction and fantasy to read, and they all ended up evolving into huge readers themselves.

My eldest recent became interested in reading more. I gave her four books by different authors in different genres to start her off and see what she likes and we’ll build from there.

We spent an hour ago talking about how different stories were basically retold over and over and how authors could repeat the same theme in different ways. We talked about the original “Seven Samurai”, and how it became the “Magnificent Seven”, then later “Battle beyond the Stars” and was made into the anime series “Samurai 7”. Now she’s starting to look up other TV shows and movies she likes to see what the stories behind them were.

195 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:44:17pm

re: #193 Justanotherhuman

This is kind of odd, since my grandson isn’t known to be an avid reader, but out of all my books, he chose The Trial as his bedside reading. I was both surprised and thrilled. : )

Well a lot of these I was required. My English comp class had a big focus on modernist literature. So we read The Trial, The Age of Innocence, Cane(man Toomer was among the most unique writers I’ve ever read), Issac Babel, and some others.

196 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 2:44:40pm

re: #163 Backwoods_Sleuth

Samuel Clemens, radical leftist.

197 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:45:19pm

re: #187 HappyWarrior

oh the 50’s? Nah. Mid 00’s. I’m only 27.

Ah so—my grandson is 24.

So yeah, get off my grass, as my great-grandson came out of the blue with the other day in the car.

P.S. He didn’t get it from me!

198 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:45:58pm

re: #197 Justanotherhuman

Ah so—my grandson is 24.

So yeah, get off my grass, as my great-grandson came out of the blue with the other day in the car.

P.S. He didn’t get it from me!

Hahaha fair enough.

199 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 2:46:05pm

i hear that the teenage young persons of this modern world of today are required in some schools to read a book, especially if they are interested in studying ancient history

200 Romantic Heretic  Nov 14, 2014 2:46:37pm

re: #121 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Those knives next to Boehner’s plate must make the Secret Service very nervous. I also note McConnell is not seated next to POTUS.

201 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:46:49pm

Since we’re talking books now, I would recommend James Fenimore Cooper’s 1823 novel “The Pioneers: The Sources of the Susquehanna; a Descriptive Tale”.
It’s one of those stories that go to show that as much things change, not much really changes after all.
It even has a 17th Century environmentalist/treehugger as a major character.
(Texas history and literature education powers-that-be would hate it.)

Available free, in a variety of download formats, at Gutenburg Project:

gutenberg.org

202 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:47:34pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Make me old man!

Remember…we old folks fart.
A lot.

203 Varek Raith  Nov 14, 2014 2:47:39pm

It’s cold.
Thanks, Obama.

204 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 2:47:40pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

I think I’m the only millennial never to have read any of the Harry Potter books (and don’t try to convince me) but I did always appreciate those books for making people my age appreciate reading. Still remember first hearing about those books in seventh grade because quite a few kids had did The Goblet of Fire as their summer reading book. I forget what I did. I had a harder time with fiction in those days.

My sister loved those books, though she was out of her teens by the time the last came out. Moved straight into the Twilight garbage. Me? I was reading Star Trek novels in middle school.

205 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:49:07pm

re: #196 jaunte

Samuel Clemens, radical leftist.

Well to be fair he certainly was for his time but that’s in lies the problem with how many of these groups approach education. They don’t want a critical eye on our history. That’s why so many of them flip out when it’s rightfully talked about how Jefferson would write about “all men being created equal” in the Declaration yet hold slaves until his death. The contradictions these people don’t seem to understand(or maybe they do and that’s what angers them) are as much part of our history as the sentiments.

206 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:52:51pm
207 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:54:29pm

re: #206 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It’s not healthy behavior to obsessed with what consenting adults do behind closed doors either Petey. Him, Fischer, and the others would do us all a great favor if they just got over their collective sexual repression already.

208 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:54:32pm

re: #204 Targetpractice

My sister loved those books, though she was out of her teens by the time the last came out. Moved straight into the Twilight garbage. Me? I was reading Star Trek novels in middle school.

I regret to say that my sons were not readers. They were at the tail end of the Boomer crowd, and were so visually oriented that they never missed an episode of Star Trek (the original TV series). My oldest was a huge comic book consumer, too, and beats himself up every time he remembers the first editions he got rid of that are worth a lot of money today in ComicBookWorld.

209 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 2:55:20pm
210 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 2:55:46pm

re: #204 Targetpractice

My sister loved those books, though she was out of her teens by the time the last came out. Moved straight into the Twilight garbage. Me? I was reading Star Trek novels in middle school.

Ha, speaking of Twilight. I remember seeing a comp posted comparing the prose between Rowling and Meyer and man the difference. But even I won’t knock Twilight too hard if it gets people eventually reading better stuff. I read a lot of non-fiction in my early years. Loved learning about the presidents, Civil War, WWII, baseball history. etc.

211 Romantic Heretic  Nov 14, 2014 2:57:57pm

re: #174 Kragar

Heinlein, Niven, Asimov, and Bradbury for me around that time frame

Same, plus H. P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and August Derleth as well.

Speaking of Lovecraft I recently found a free e-book with all of his stories in it.

212 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:58:43pm

re: #210 HappyWarrior

Ha, speaking of Twilight. I remember seeing a comp posted comparing the prose between Rowling and Meyer and man the difference. But even I won’t knock Twilight too hard if it gets people eventually reading better stuff. I read a lot of non-fiction in my early years. Loved learning about the presidents, Civil War, WWII, baseball history. etc.

When I was in elementary school, I must have read every “Landmark” history book twice. “Guadalcanal Diary”, “30 seconds over Tokyo”, “Battle of the Bulge”, “The Crusades”, etc. You name it, I read it.

213 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 2:59:12pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

Same, plus H. P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and August Derleth as well.

Speaking of Lovecraft I recently found a free e-book with all of his stories in it.

Got into Lovecraft junior year.

214 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 2:59:27pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

Same, plus H. P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and August Derleth as well.

Speaking of Lovecraft I recently found a free e-book with all of his stories in it.

Wut, no Ursula Le Guin?

215 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 3:04:31pm
216 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:06:20pm

When men think they’re not being sexist, they should read this.

Ursula K. Le Guin on Being a Man

brainpickings.org

217 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 3:07:07pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

All the stories are now public domain in Canada (and in Oz?). Fuck the money-grubbing copyright-holders :D

(As far as I’m concerned, books should become p.d. 10 years after the author’s death, if not earlier.)

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Nov 14, 2014 3:09:28pm

re: #201 Backwoods_Sleuth

Since we’re talking books now, I would recommend James Fenimore Cooper’s 1823 novel “The Pioneers: The Sources of the Susquehanna; a Descriptive Tale”.
It’s one of those stories that go to show that as much things change, not much really changes after all.
It even has a 17th Century environmentalist/treehugger as a major character.
(Texas history and literature education powers-that-be would hate it.)

Available free, in a variety of download formats, at Gutenburg Project:

gutenberg.org

I liked Cooper. Very much of his age, stylistically, but well worth the time.

I’ve read, at differing times, everything I’ve seen mentioned. I’ll agree that Miller is over rated, later Hemingway is too but to sit a spell with Camus will more than make up for them,

For now though, I just got the latest William Gibson SF novel “The Peripheral” from the library and that’s as tasty a read as his first, “Neuromancer”.

Oh, and if anyone here needs the best space opera written in a generation, there is “Ancillary Justice” by Ann Leckie. The second book “Ancillary Sword” just came out and is as good. I’m chomping at the bit for part three to be done.

220 The War TARDIS  Nov 14, 2014 3:10:47pm

I think the San Jose PD needs investigating.

Youtube Video

221 William Barnett-Lewis  Nov 14, 2014 3:11:40pm

re: #214 Justanotherhuman

Wut, no Ursula Le Guin?

Oh, she is so exquisite. Roccannon’s World, Word for World Is Forest, Left Hand of Darkness, Always Coming Home, Earthsea…

222 Romantic Heretic  Nov 14, 2014 3:12:40pm

re: #214 Justanotherhuman

Wut, no Ursula Le Guin?

Nope. Never could get into her. Or Marion Zimmer Bradley.

Among the slightly more obscure SF writers I gobbled down were Roger Zelazny, James H. Schmitz and Harlan Ellison.

223 William Barnett-Lewis  Nov 14, 2014 3:13:59pm

re: #216 Justanotherhuman

When men think they’re not being sexist, they should read this.

Ursula K. Le Guin on Being a Man

brainpickings.org

Good stuff. Lots to think about there.

224 William Barnett-Lewis  Nov 14, 2014 3:14:22pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

The one person I’d like to see fired the most on TV.

She is evil.

225 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 3:15:13pm

re: #219 William Barnett-Lewis

Mark Twain’s “Fenimore Cooper’s literary offenses” is a hoot.

en.wikipedia.org

226 William Barnett-Lewis  Nov 14, 2014 3:15:24pm

re: #222 Romantic Heretic

Nope. Never could get into her. Or Marion Zimmer Bradley.

Among the slightly more obscure SF writers I gobbled down were Roger Zelazny, James H. Schmitz and Harlan Ellison.

Zelazny’s Lord of Light remains one of my favorite SF novels of all time. I can pick it up and read it again anytime.

227 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:15:31pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

The one person I’d like to see fired the most on TV.

Joe Scarborough comes in a close second for me.

228 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 3:15:53pm
Aquinas was once asked, with what compendium a man might best become learned. He answered, ”By reading of one book”, meaning, that an understanding entertained with several objects is intent upon neither, and profits not.

~ Bishop Jeremy Taylor, The Great Exemplar (1649)

229 Romantic Heretic  Nov 14, 2014 3:18:44pm

re: #226 William Barnett-Lewis

Zelazny’s Lord of Light remains one of my favorite SF novels of all time. I can pick it up and read it again anytime.

Same. His A Night in The Lonesome October is also a perennial favourite, especially around Halloween.

230 Varek Raith  Nov 14, 2014 3:18:51pm

re: #227 Justanotherhuman

Joe Scarborough comes in a close second for me.

Yep, he’s on my list of Annoying Idjits.
Along with Hannity, Shultz, O’rly etc.

231 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 3:19:11pm

Conservatives are still shocked over geology, too:

Born This Day: Sir Charles Lyell

232 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 3:19:52pm
233 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 3:21:09pm

They just “reported” on Fixed how much money Gruber has made from consulting for different states about their health care as if it’s illegal, I thought wingnuts were capitalists. It ended with Baier saying “Hard to believe.” Okie doke.

234 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:22:24pm

re: #228 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

~ Bishop Jeremy Taylor, The Great Exemplar (1649)

Of course, conservatives today would insist that Aquinas meant the Bible. How often have you seen one of them say it’s the only book they’ve ever read? : )

235 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 3:25:51pm

re: #234 Justanotherhuman

Of course, conservatives today would insist that Aquinas meant the Bible. How often have you seen one of them say it’s the only book they’ve ever read? : )

The point is, we don’t know if Aquinas ever said it (some attribute it to Augustine) and what he meant by it - was he afraid of closed-mindedness and ignorance, or did he, on the contrary, think that a man knowing one book perfectly was a formidable opponent?

236 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 3:27:11pm

re: #232 lawhawk

Fuck that shithead.

237 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 3:30:38pm
238 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 3:33:48pm

re: #237 Kid A

Bush Medicare drug program

otherwise known as the Keep Drugs Twice As Expensive In The United States As Anywhere Else In The World Act of 2003

thanks, obama

239 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 3:38:44pm

heh…

240 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:41:57pm

Yesssss!

Federal judge in South Dakota rejects motion to dismiss case challenging state’s same-sex marriage ban - @KDLTNews
read more on kdlt.com

241 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 3:42:01pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

I was really surprised to see How To Eat Fried Worms was among the most heavily challenged books. I also did not know that the author was Norman Rockwell’s son. I just remember that being a fun book. Real silly IIRC.

When my mother was an elementary school librarian and did book readings to classes she read this book to the 5th graders every year. And at the time that the end of the book was being done she would also bring in worm cake*. Along with an identical cake with no worms. It was optional to take a piece from either cake.

She also offered it up in the teacher’s lounge. The male teachers generally refused to eat it.

* - Prepped nightcrawlers** baked into one of those small Betty Crocker semi-instant banana-walnut cakes. Pretty hard to identify what was worm and what was not.

** - My brother caught and sold nightcrawlers for bait so a supply was on-hand most of the spring and summer. A dozen or so would be moved to a coffee can full of cornmeal. Castings would be removed off the surface every day. After a week the worm is pretty much full of cornmeal instead of dirt. Boiled for a few minutes to strip off the mucus coat, then baked to dry them out. Could them be chopped up and added to the batter. Just a crunchy protein bit at that point.

242 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:45:16pm

re: #241 Feline Fearless Leader

When my mother was an elementary school librarian and did book readings to classes she read this book to the 5th graders every year. And at the time that the end of the book was being done she would also bring in worm cake*. Along with an identical cake with no worms. It was optional to take a piece from either cake.

She also offered it up in the teacher’s lounge. The male teachers generally refused to eat it.

* - Prepped nightcrawlers** baked into one of those small Betty Crocker semi-instant banana-walnut cakes. Pretty hard to identify what was worm and what was not.

** - My brother caught and sold nightcrawlers for bait so a supply was on-hand most of the spring and summer. A dozen or so would be moved to a coffee can full of cornmeal. Castings would be removed off the surface every day. After a week the worm is pretty much full of cornmeal instead of dirt. Boiled for a few minutes to strip off the mucus coat, then baked to dry them out. Could them be chopped up and added to the batter. Just a crunchy protein bit at that point.

When I was 13, I ate some chocolate covered ants,..it was a thing back then, too.

243 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak  Nov 14, 2014 3:48:39pm

re: #242 Justanotherhuman

When I was 13, I ate some chocolate covered ants,..it was a thing back then, too.

Still a thing.

edible-shop.com

*shudder*

244 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 3:49:40pm

re: #242 Justanotherhuman

When I was 13, I ate some chocolate covered ants,..it was a thing back then, too.

I vaguely remembered those. Never ate one though.

Can’t think of that many land-based arthropods I have knowingly consumed. Lots of sea-based ones though. Plus frog, alligator, giraffe, bison, and the usual meat suspects.

245 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Nov 14, 2014 3:50:32pm

re: #63 EPR-radar

Paying obscene amounts of money for art is one of the ways the 0.001% can compare dick size.

Maybe the best way. This does, somewhat, trickle down. Plus, people are not being killed and natural resources are not being wasted.

And we get to laugh at them.

246 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:52:49pm

re: #243 Islamo-Masonic Vourdalak

Still a thing.

edible-shop.com

*shudder*

Don’t know if the ones I had were from Colombia, but it was in Miami back in the ’50s. All of the “some” ants were in one small piece, like those, but for the life of me, can’t remember if I actually swallowed them, although at that age, I took up dares and threw caution to the winds. Well, mild dares, that is. : )

247 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 3:57:47pm

We already eat insects, or at least parts of them.

fda.gov

(Scroll down to the “COMMODITIES AND DEFECT ACTION LEVELS ” chart…)

248 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 3:57:53pm

re: #245 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)

Maybe the best way. This does, somewhat, trickle down. Plus, people are not being killed and natural resources are not being wasted.

And we get to laugh at them.

Yeah, I wouldn’t have paid $81.90 for that Warhol “Triple Elvis”. I thought he was a derivative graphics designer, first and foremost.

249 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 3:58:57pm

re: #248 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, I wouldn’t have paid $81.90 for that Warhol “Triple Elvis”. I thought he was a derivative graphics designer, first and foremost.

It was all just a cover for keeping track of legal aliens.
//

250 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:04:14pm

And an item for those who view major college sports as totally corrupt. Fifteen years old, but sort of interesting. :)

What was won on the playing fields of Antioch

251 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 4:08:37pm

Evening Lizards from the cold and wet twinkey flats in the wonderful tragic valley. So besides the GRUBER11ty teabola outbreak, what else is the wrnjs frothing about today?

252 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 4:10:37pm

re: #251 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards from the cold and wet twinkey flats in the wonderful tragic valley. So besides the GRUBER11ty teabola outbreak, what else is the wrnjs frothing about today?

Apparently the wingnuts I’m acquainted with are frothing at the mouth because the White House gave notice that the President plans to go ahead with his EO as early as next week.

253 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:11:09pm

re: #251 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards from the cold and wet twinkey flats in the wonderful tragic valley. So besides the GRUBER11ty teabola outbreak, what else is the wrnjs frothing about today?

Probably something about freezing temps disproving evolution and being Obama’s fault since God doesn’t love us anymore.
//

254 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 4:13:42pm

re: #240 Justanotherhuman

Yesssss!

Federal judge in South Dakota rejects motion to dismiss case challenging state’s same-sex marriage ban - @KDLTNews
read more on kdlt.com

That’s some good news. OTOH, one of the other headlines reminded me that the House passed the Keystone XL pipeline bill and that 31 Democrats voted for the sonofabitch. The House seems slated to be a Republican bastion for the foreseeable future. In light of that I’d rather do without the shitheads who voted for this bill.

255 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 4:14:42pm

re: #251 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards from the cold and wet twinkey flats in the wonderful tragic valley. So besides the GRUBER11ty teabola outbreak, what else is the wrnjs frothing about today?

We had an incoherent hatchling ranting here earlier about an ESA scientist’s shirt and conflating it with Gruber.
Or sumthin…
I just went ahead and cleaned the catboxes.

256 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 4:15:42pm

We had been worried that my eldest was going to struggle when she transitioned to Middle School, just got her 1st report card

7th Grade Language Arts A-
7/8 Orchestra A
Physical Education B+
Pre-Algebra B
Math Support 7th A+
7th Science A

257 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 4:16:46pm

re: #256 Kragar

Nice work, Mom and Dad!

258 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 4:17:20pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

re: #253 Feline Fearless Leader

Those are old strains of teabola. Though if the immigration EO goes through, I expect that one to go airborne. Speaking of airborne teabola, has Chucky been spreading any new teabola about the Lynch AG nomination?

259 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:19:53pm

re: #258 Bubblehead II

Those are old strains of teabola. Though if the immigration EO goes through, I expect that one to go airborne. Speaking of airborne teabola, has Chucky been spreading any new teabola about the Lynch AG nomination?

I think he’s busy printing and sending resumes to Pierre since there seem to be open positions for drinking at that money trough.

260 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 4:20:21pm

re: #256 Kragar

Pre-algebra in middle school? Wow. I didn’t take an algebra class until I was a freshman in high school.

261 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 4:22:00pm

What a great week! A comet landing and now this.
Science is so freaking cool!

262 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 4:23:06pm
263 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 4:24:38pm

re: #259 Feline Fearless Leader

I think he’s busy printing and sending resumes to Pierre since there seem to be open positions for drinking at that money trough.

I don’t think there will be enough room for two egos as big as Chucky’s and Greenwads over at the Intercept. The effect on the derpularity would be interesting to see though.

264 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 4:24:59pm

re: #260 Kid A

Pre-algebra in middle school? Wow. I didn’t take an algebra class until I was a freshman in high school.

OK, now i’m curious, when is algebra generally taught back home in the US (i was overseas for middle and high school)?

265 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 4:26:05pm

re: #260 Kid A

Pre-algebra in middle school? Wow. I didn’t take an algebra class until I was a freshman in high school.

I took algebra in 8th grade. I had to pass a test to get the high school credit for it, though. I’m 48 now.

266 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:26:43pm

re: #262 Kid A

[Embedded content]

Maybe Chuckie doesn’t qualify due to the “get paid” part? I think he’s trying real hard to fix that though.
///

267 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 4:26:51pm

re: #264 Ebolangelus

OK, now i’m curious, when is algebra generally taught back home in the US (i was overseas for middle and high school)?

Well, like I said, I didn’t take any algebra at all until I was a freshman, but that was almost thirty years ago. If she is taking pre-algebra in middle school, she is very bright because it is not easy.

268 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:28:06pm

re: #264 Ebolangelus

OK, now i’m curious, when is algebra generally taught back home in the US (i was overseas for middle and high school)?

I took it in 8th grade, but it was normally taught in 9th grade along with the required state exam. (New York State in 1978, but I think that is still how it works currently.)

269 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 4:28:09pm

re: #261 Backwoods_Sleuth

What a great week! A comet landing and now this.
Science is so freaking cool!

[Embedded content]

It remains to be seen what causes these Siberian sinkholes. If the cause is methane hydrate explosions, the implications could be awful for climate change.

270 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 4:28:27pm

Comments are the usual idiocy, such as—“Where did she get the money [to travel]”, etc.

271 Kid A  Nov 14, 2014 4:28:41pm

Ahhh, Kragar’s middle school daughter is in the seventh grade, okay. We call that junior high school here in Texas. Middle school is fifth and sixth grade.

272 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 4:28:59pm

re: #268 Feline Fearless Leader

I took it in 8th grade, but it was normally taught in 9th grade along with the required state exam. (New York State in 1978, but I think that is still how it works currently.)

Yes, same in Nevada.

273 Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 14, 2014 4:29:34pm

re: #260 Kid A

I had geometry and algebra in 6th and 7th grade back in the early ’60s.

Catholic school in Buffalo, NY. We moved to Greater Cincinnati when I transferred to a public school junior high (8th grade) and was bored to tears in math class for a long, long time.

274 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 4:29:40pm

re: #264 Ebolangelus

OK, now i’m curious, when is algebra generally taught back home in the US (i was overseas for middle and high school)?

IIRC, 7th grade for me in the 1970s. Probably a bit earlier than normal because of the Bell Labs effect in town.

275 Archangelus  Nov 14, 2014 4:31:14pm

re: #267 Kid A

Huh. Well, I was in Israel when it was shoved mercilessly into our skulls at 7th grade (horrid teacher with a somewhat unhealthy obsession with the quadratic equation).

276 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 4:33:40pm

re: #264 Ebolangelus

OK, now i’m curious, when is algebra generally taught back home in the US (i was overseas for middle and high school)?

I took Pre-Algebra in Middle School. HS was Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, then Pre calculus/Trigonometry senior year.

277 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 4:35:21pm
278 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 4:37:09pm

Did anyone ever even ask Mitt Romney about Romneycare during ’the debates’?

279 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 4:37:18pm

re: #277 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Too much cellulose in the cheeks.

280 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 4:37:45pm

re: #278 missliberties

It’s all down the memory hole.

281 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 4:37:50pm

I know I’m not the economist that upchuck is, but could somebody explain to me what is economically illiterate about the President’s statement? It makes perfect sense to me.

282 danarchy  Nov 14, 2014 4:38:01pm

re: #276 Kragar

I took Pre-Algebra in Middle School. HS was Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, then Pre calculus/Trigonometry senior year.

sort of similar here, pre-algebra in 8th, Algebra 9th, geometry/trig 10th, pre-calc 11th and Calculus senior year.

283 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 4:38:13pm

re: #277 teleskiguy

Looks like something to carry two bowling balls in.
/

284 Skip Intro  Nov 14, 2014 4:38:43pm

re: #278 missliberties

Did anyone ever even ask Mitt Romney about Romneycare during ‘the debates’?

Anyone? You mean like the media?

Now that’s funny.

285 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 4:39:44pm

re: #280 lawhawk

It’s all down the memory hole.

It makes me nuts! The dishonesty is stunning. *sigh*

286 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 4:39:47pm

re: #281 BeachDem

The place where the President goes wrong is: “It doesn’t have an impact on U.S. prices…”

Since refined petroleum products are traded internationally, the global supply of refined products will affect the prices of said products.

287 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 4:39:50pm

re: #278 missliberties

Did anyone ever even ask Mitt Romney about Romneycare during ‘the debates’?

I believe so. He more or less stated it was a meant to be a State level program. Not a National program. But I could be wrong. Lizards?

288 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 4:41:42pm

re: #287 Bubblehead II

I believe so. He more or less stated it was a meant to be a State level program. Not a National program. But I could be wrong. Lizards?

That’s the way I remember it, too. He was saying that it worked great for Massachusetts, but that it wouldn’t necessarily work well for other states for some unspecified reason.

289 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 4:42:47pm

It’s a hell of an excoriation. Well worth the read.

290 lawhawk  Nov 14, 2014 4:43:01pm

re: #281 BeachDem

He thinks that the President ignores that the high costs to process tar sands into usable fuels will somehow drive down the price of oil.

Fact is that not all oil costs the same to get out of the ground and process into usable fuels.

Not all oil costs the same to extract. Saudi oil is relatively cheap. It’s pretty close to the surface, it’s on land, and it’s light sweet crude. Tar sands are difficult to extract, cost a lot to ship and process. The pipeline would direct those tar sands to processing refineries on the Gulf Coast that have excess capacity.

But then again, the same nitwits who think that Obama sucks on oil policy also think that cheap oil is bad for the economy. It’s bad only for the energy companies since it removes whatever incentive the companies have to go after more difficult oil.

And the price of oil keeps dropping because demand has slackened. That’s good for everyone else.

So, while there’s a generic rule that more supply will generally drive down prices, this ignores the fact that oil supplies will depend on where it’s cheapest to extract said oil.

291 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 4:43:16pm

re: #286 freetoken

The place where the President goes wrong is: “It doesn’t have an impact on U.S. prices…”

Since refined petroleum products are traded internationally, the global supply of refined products will affect the prices of said products.

The purpose of Keystone XL, which TransCanada told the Canadian gov’t when it applied for the permits to get the pipeline built, was that it will raise the price of Canadian crude oil $20-40/bbl. Previously, they’d had to sell it at a severe mark-down due to inability to get it farther than the Midwest, which had a glut of crude oil. By allowing them bypass those refineries and go straight to Texas, they can get their products directly to market and thus mark it back up.

292 Skip Intro  Nov 14, 2014 4:43:17pm

re: #286 freetoken

It is a True Fact among Republicans that all that toxic crap from Canada will be refined in Texas to be used here.

You can try and explain that that’s not the case, but they won’t believe you because they’ve got their facts and you’ve got yours so it’s a tie

293 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 4:43:46pm

re: #292 Skip Intro

But Je$u$.

294 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 4:44:33pm

re: #281 BeachDem

I like the part highlighted in green. It’s a basic simple explanation. Canada’s dirty filthy oil passes on US land, and over the freaking Aquifer, (no worries there) and down to Texas and gets sold on the world market.

But it’s more than three words, so nevermind Americans apparently can’t concentrate on more than three words at a time.

295 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 4:45:44pm

re: #262 Kid A

[Embedded content]

“We have a word for someone who is paid money & lies about the service he provides.”

Judging from the content on his website, the word CCJ uses for that kind of person is “source”

296 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 4:47:40pm
297 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 4:48:02pm

re: #281 BeachDem

Access to US refineries. There is a lot of money to be made in processing and refining. Some of the majors are net purchasers of crude and actually benefit from lower crude prices because the real money is in refining and distribution.

298 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 4:49:47pm

Earthquake with preliminary magnitude of 5.8 reported near Lima, Peru - @Sismos_Peru_IGP
see original on twitter.com
GUATEMALA
5m
Magnitude 5.0 earthquake reported of the coast of Guatemala; reports of shaking in El Salvador - @MARN_Oficial_SV
see original on twitter.com

299 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 4:49:56pm

re: #292 Skip Intro

The US is a net exporter of refined products.

300 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 4:50:17pm

re: #294 missliberties

I like the part highlighted in green. It’s a basic simple explanation. Canada’s dirty filthy oil passes on US land, and over the freaking Aquifer, (no worries there) and down to Texas and gets sold on the world market.

But it’s more than three words, so nevermind Americans apparently can’t concentrate on more than three words at a time.

if it gets approved and underway, the fights over eminent domain, as private property all across the red state belt is seized to make it happen, ought to be the biggest disaster to ever hit the republican party since 1929

301 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 4:51:44pm

re: #300 dog philosopher

if it gets approved and underway, the fights over eminent domain, as private property all across the red state belt is seized to make it happen, ought to be the biggest disaster to ever hit the republican party since 1929

302 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 4:52:04pm
303 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 4:52:16pm

re: #281 BeachDem

I know I’m not the economist that upchuck is, but could somebody explain to me what is economically illiterate about the President’s statement? It makes perfect sense to me.

[Embedded content]

I would assume that that raving stupid moronic imbecile Chuck is stating that any additional oil being dumped on the free market would lower the overall price due to the additional supply but he is such a obnoxious reactionary jerk that he couldn’t bother to try and point that out because the vomit trail between his brain and typing fingers doesn’t have time to explain things out?

:p

304 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 4:53:03pm

Update: USGS says magnitude 5.6 earthquake struck off Peru’s coast, 13 miles from Chilca; shaking reported in Lima
read more on usgs.gov

305 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 4:54:10pm

Chuck’s edgy street art must have been a complete bust even by his standards. He promised them everywhere and then he quit talking about them.

I pity the poor printer he stiffed.

306 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 4:54:43pm

re: #301 Kragar

‘The Keystone pipeline is not is not just about Canadian oil. Williston basin needs additional pipeline capacity.

307 Justanotherhuman  Nov 14, 2014 4:55:57pm

Keep calm and carry on, Lizards!

Later. : )

308 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 4:56:55pm

re: #299 compound_Idaho

The US is a net exporter of refined products.

all the coarse things remain here

309 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 4:58:07pm

re: #288 Sionainn

The bottom line is he, Mittens, was proud of trying to provide people more access to better health care. Why? Because in the long run the State Saves Money! Boom!

The US can redistribute wealth to ‘liberate muslims in Iraq’ for the sake of freedom or whatever, but heaven forfend, we can’t provide access to health care for US Citizens. ~ Free Market Jesus sez so.~

The lying and the appeal to the basest instincts of humanity is what bothers me the most.

310 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:01:27pm

We need a friendly amendment put onto the KXL Senate bill stating how all of the tar sands oil needs to be sold in the USA.

I know it is totally unenforceable but it sure does trigger that shallow flag waving FoxNews type talking point and everyone would rally around it.

I want the republicans to explain to Americans on why they don’t want that provision.

311 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 5:02:52pm

re: #305 bill d

Chuck’s edgy street art must have been a complete bust even by his standards. He promised them everywhere and then he quit talking about them.

I pity the poor printer he stiffed.

Was that the Lena Dunham street shaming project? (so last week…) Did he ever grift the $800 he was begging for to put that into operation? (And how much impact are you going to make for $800 anyway?)

312 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 5:03:07pm

re: #300 dog philosopher

I thought it was already pre-approved.

I could live with it if it didn’t go over the freaking Aquifer.

People have no clue what an invaluable source of water it is.

313 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 5:04:20pm

Aren’t people like Bill McKibbon and Michael Mann saying that we need to keep the oil in the ground to stave off anthropogenic global warming? Should’t we be putting our resources and technological might to finding energy sources that are not fossil fuels?

314 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 5:04:24pm

re: #312 missliberties

I thought it was already pre-approved.

I could live with it if it didn’t go over the freaking Aquifer.

People have no clue what an invaluable source of water it is.

i think the aquifer is one of the best kept open secrets in the united states

what is the latest estimate of when it might dry up?

315 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 5:04:42pm

re: #309 missliberties

Quality healthcare for everyone is a noble goal.

MA has the highest spending per capita and the second high premiums.

spending
kff.org

premiums
kff.org

May not be the best model.

316 missliberties  Nov 14, 2014 5:05:30pm

re: #297 compound_Idaho

Access to US refineries. There is a lot of money to be made in processing and refining. Some of the majors are net purchasers of crude and actually benefit from lower crude prices because the real money is in refining and distribution.

Good point.

317 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:08:56pm

re: #311 BeachDem

Was that the Lena Dunham street shaming project? (so last week…) Did he ever grift the $800 he was begging for to put that into operation? (And how much impact are you going to make for $800 anyway?)

I think his lack of funding for that one must have killed his brain child. He thought he was so cute printing up those posters (he got to put the word niggah into the African American Congresswoman’s one, because that’s something she might say!), taking pictures of them and reporting the whole deal as an exclusive. Even his crowd of morons didn’t bite on that one and that is saying something.

318 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 5:10:43pm

Tongue Twister!

319 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 5:10:57pm

Damn! With the orbiter ending up in a shadow zone any science obtained from this mission is going to small. Hope they decide to attempt a hop to get it back into the sun.

320 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 5:11:12pm

I just with our leaders would have the courage to speak what the citizens may not want to hear.

For example, I wish the President would not have to hide behind weak economic arguments to defend a decision which ultimately has to be made on the bigger picture of how we want our society to produce energy for the future because of the negative effects of carbon burning.

The single biggest thing wrong with the Canadian tar deposits is that they will end up in the atmosphere for centuries to come.

The second biggest thing wrong with the Canadian tar deposits is the pollution of the ground and water during the mining, production, and refining.

Any effects on the price of gasoline in America is probably not predictable.

321 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:12:16pm

re: #297 compound_Idaho

Access to US refineries. There is a lot of money to be made in processing and refining. Some of the majors are net purchasers of crude and actually benefit from lower crude prices because the real money is in refining and distribution.

Diesel is still far more expensive than gasoline and that is the cheapest stuff produce. It used to be a lot cheaper than gas until they realized that commerce depends on it and will pay any price as opposed to regular schmucks like us who will change their driving habits if gas gets too high.

322 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 5:13:04pm
323 Eventual Carrion  Nov 14, 2014 5:16:44pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

Same, plus H. P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard and August Derleth as well.

Speaking of Lovecraft I recently found a free e-book with all of his stories in it.

Cool. I just installed a reader on my Android tablet for EPUB format. I will have to download.

324 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 5:20:39pm

re: #321 bill d

not arguing just commenting.

eia.gov
Why has diesel fuel been more expensive than gasoline?

On-highway diesel fuel prices have been higher than regular gasoline prices almost continuously since September 2004, a break from the historical pattern of diesel fuel prices usually being lower than gasoline prices except in cold winters when demand for heating oil pushed diesel fuel prices higher. The main reasons why diesel fuel prices have been higher than gasoline prices in recent years are:

High worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils, especially in Europe, China, India, and the United States, and a tight global refining capacity available to meet demand during the period of high economic growth from 2002 to mid-2008. (supply and demand… not much we can do about that)

The transition to less polluting, lower-sulfur diesel fuels in the United States affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. (EPA regulations)

The Federal excise tax for on-highway diesel fuel of 24.4 cents/gallon is 6 cents per gallon higher the gasoline tax. (?)

325 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:21:12pm

Nobody knows how much those tar sands seem to cost per barrel:

Existing projects in Alberta can still make money at $45 a barrel.

oilprice.com

Federal analysts have warned that producers in the Canadian oil sands — slated to be a top consumer of the pipeline — will need oil prices to stay between $65 and $75 a barrel to make production there economically feasible.

usatoday.com

Not all oil sands projects are created equal, of course. Cenovus, which uses super-hot bursts of steam to melt seams of bitumen buried too deep to mine, says it can coax oil from the sands for between $35 and $65 (U.S.) per barrel

theglobeandmail.com

It must be still so early in that industry where they still might honestly know how much that stuff costs in the long run?

What a mess.

Thanks Canada:
1.) Ted Cruz
2.) Tar Sands
3.) Bieber

326 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 5:22:54pm

This covers many bases.

To this day, Hammond is unsure how agents cracked his encryption program and got what they needed to land him back in prison. But he has one idea: “My password was really weak.”

It was his cat.

“Chewy,” he said, looking down at his hands. “Chewy 123.”

327 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 5:23:04pm
328 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 5:24:38pm

re: #20 NJDhockeyfan

MSNBC:

Obamacare adviser Jonathan Gruber gives Democrats new headache

I’ll go you one better:

Six Degrees of Jonathan Gruber
Why the Republicans’ anger over the MIT professor’s statements about Obamacare is politically justified.
By John Dickerson

“I don’t know who he is,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said Thursday, although she has referred to his work in the past. “He didn’t help write our bill.” Democrats are saying that Gruber was only one of many advisers and that the $400,000 he was paid by the government was simply for his economic model. This reaction looks like panic to distance Democrats from Gruber, which is impossible. It’s impossible not only because Gruber says he helped with the law and visited the White House five times in 2009 to help craft it, but also because the Democrats were the first to use the MIT professor as a political weapon.

Before he was causing problems for the Obama administration, the Obama team was using Gruber to unsettle Mitt Romney. In the 2012 campaign, Obama’s camp was claiming that the Massachusetts health care plan was the intellectual model for Obamacare, just as Romney was trying to disavow it. Gruber was essential to this case. In a video produced by the Obama campaign celebrating the anniversary of “Romneycare,” Gruber says, “I helped Gov. Romney develop his health care reform or Romneycare, before going down to Washington to help President Obama develop his national version of that law.” The spot includes old footage of Romney thanking Gruber for his work on the Massachusetts health bill. “The core of the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare and what we did in Massachusetts are identical,” Gruber says. The MIT professor was such an important part of the creation of Obamacare that his association with Romney’s effort proved the link between the two programs. If that involvement in Obamacare was sufficient to condemn Romney in 2012, it’s sufficient enough for Republicans to raise it now over Gruber’s claims about the Affordable Care Act. What’s Gruber for the goose, is Gruber for the gander.

329 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:26:36pm

re: #324 compound_Idaho

Cool, thanks

tight global refining capacity

That probably is the greatest takeaway.

Remember when one of the wingnuts screaming talking points was how they haven’t built a new refinery in X # of years?

Nevermind that the existing refineries have grown by 20x X. So the refiners are doing just fine and expanding as needed and they don’t have excess capacity that is used to make diesel, they’re very happy where that number is right now?

330 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 5:28:16pm

re: #321 bill d

Diesel is still far more expensive than gasoline and that is the cheapest stuff produce. It used to be a lot cheaper than gas until they realized that commerce depends on it and will pay any price as opposed to regular schmucks like us who will change their driving habits if gas gets too high.

More profitable for a refinery to break a barrel of oil into gasoline and tar (or whatever) than make diesel from it. Therefore, little or no incentive for them to make diesel, and thus diesel supplies remain relatively low and at a higher price due to diesel demand for transportation (train and truck) remaining steady or high.

331 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 5:28:59pm

re: #291 Targetpractice

The purpose of Keystone XL, which TransCanada told the Canadian gov’t when it applied for the permits to get the pipeline built, was that it will raise the price of Canadian crude oil $20-40/bbl. Previously, they’d had to sell it at a severe mark-down due to inability to get it farther than the Midwest, which had a glut of crude oil. By allowing them bypass those refineries and go straight to Texas, they can get their products directly to market and thus mark it back up.

There are very few refineries that can crack oil from tar sands crude. It’s nasty stuff and would require significant modifications to existing refineries in Texas, which has a glut of light crude from the Eagle Ford. It won’t be refined here. So what’s the point of the pipeline?

The economics on which it was envisioned have been overtaken by events that make it useless to the US. Obama is exactly right. But the Political Idjits supporting it (I’m looking at you, Mary Landrieu) are so invested in the concept that they can’t let it go at this point.

332 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 5:30:40pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Ad hominem apologetics rides again.

If Obamacare and Romneycare are basically the same (which they appear to be), then no single person’s testimony can possibly be “essential” for proving that to be the case.

Facts standing on their own, independent of testimonials and witnessing, appears to be a concept that the US Right is simply incapable of dealing with.

Edited to add: Idiots in the MSM also have an annoying tendency to confuse truth with testimonials, as Dickerson has done here.

333 Snarknado!  Nov 14, 2014 5:31:25pm

News on a Smaller Pipeline, or Amazing Goop is Amazing

So the marriage between my ‘30’s original bathroom sink and the ‘50’s (approximately) piping dissolved in a pile of black crumbs a week or so ago. The only real repair would involve ripping out the sink, (and probably some of the piping), and replacing everything.

Not gonna happen.

So for $5.00, I bought a tube of the Goop, fitted the remnants together (you could still look into the drain and see daylight, shudder), cleaned the surface as well as I could — no crumbs, anyway, and gooped it up.

Three days to cure…

This morning I ran water in the sink, and there was one spot where it still leaked. More goop. Waited 20 minutes this time, poured a little water down the drain. NO LEAK!

Now I’m waiting another three days for it to cure, and daring to hope that I might have a sink again. (I know brushing your teeth over the kitchen sink is no different from doing it in the bathroom, but ewwww anyway.)

334 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 5:32:47pm

re: #331 austin_blue

There are very few refineries that can crack oil from tar sands crude. It’s nasty stuff and would require significant modifications to existing refineries in Texas, which has a glut of light crude from the Eagle Ford. It won’t be refined here. So what’s the point of the pipeline?

The economics on which it was envisioned have been overtaken by events that make it useless to the US. Obama is exactly right. But the Political Idjits supporting it (I’m looking at you, Mary Landrieu) are so invested in the concept that they can’t let it go at this point.

Mary Landrieu will support Keystone XL regardless of where the oil is refined, if for no other reason than her family has traditionally been in tight with Louisiana’s oil interests.

335 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 5:36:18pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Mary Landrieu will support Keystone XL regardless of where the oil is refined, if for no other reason than her family has traditionally been in tight with Louisiana’s oil interests.

Although she will most likely lose her recall election to a Republican, good riddance to her anyway.

336 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:37:27pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Mary Landrieu will support Keystone XL regardless of where the oil is refined, if for no other reason than her family has traditionally been in tight with Louisiana’s oil interests.

And Dark Falcon and Bill D. have as much of a chance as being elected U.S. Senator from Louisiana as Mary Landrieu does.

I can’t believe that Reid is letting this hole card being played for such a losing hand.

337 compound_Idaho  Nov 14, 2014 5:39:59pm

re: #331 austin_blue

If it is such a loser, call their bluff and approve the project. Do you think they will intentionally spend billions on a loser?

338 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 5:40:10pm
339 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 5:40:56pm

re: #332 EPR-radar

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

340 Bubblehead II  Nov 14, 2014 5:41:34pm

Night Lizards.

341 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 5:44:55pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

I’ve looked at some of the clips that conservatives are freaking out about (or “celebrating” as one conservative told me), (and found the full clips to get the context), and I really don’t see what the big fucking deal is. I really don’t. I don’t even think that what he says in context is particularly assholeish. What am I missing?

342 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 5:47:26pm

I’ve got to have dinner now, back later.

343 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 5:48:01pm

re: #342 Dark_Falcon

I’ve got to have dinner now, back later.

Of course.

344 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:48:42pm

I was sure that no one watched the Ancient Aliens, Finding Bigfoot or Monsters in America except for entertainment purposes but I am afraid that that is not so.

345 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 5:49:59pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

So, the fact that testimony of a (D) attack dog can be impeached in an (R) kangaroo court of RWNJ media is supposed to somehow mean something?

You’d be the first to object to optics over substance if the affiliations were reversed. E.g., the W Bush administration being falsely accused of crimes “because that’s what Republicans do”.

346 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 5:50:23pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Mary Landrieu will support Keystone XL regardless of where the oil is refined, if for no other reason than her family has traditionally been in tight with Louisiana’s oil interests.

The problem is that Louisiana has only one refinery that can crack low grade crude. That’s Chalmette Refining, downriver from New Orleans. But it’s feedstock comes from Venezuela and is secure (Venezuela owns 50% of that refinery and Exxon the other half). Venezuelan crude is a lot cheaper than Canadian tar sands crude. So, again, Keystone sends a bunch of shitty crude to Texas where it can only be exported. If buyers can be found. Which is more and more unlikely.

347 palomino  Nov 14, 2014 5:53:21pm

re: #125 Nano b

So it is fine to be outraged at a scientist who lands a probe on a comet because he wore the wrong shirt (made by his girlfriend as a joke) but not to be pissed at a smug asshole expressing his disdain for the democratic process. Priorities folks.

Priorities, you’re right. The priority here is near universal healthcare. Like EVERY other developed country.

The rest of this is partisan bullshit to kill universal healthcare. Your side’s priority now is to deny millions healthcare with no alternative to help most of them. Congrats, that’s a really worthwhile priority. In hell.

348 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 5:53:55pm
Image via Shutterstock
349 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:53:56pm

re: #346 austin_blue

The problem is that Louisiana has only one refinery that can crack low grade crude. That’s Chalmette Refining, downriver from New Orleans. But it’s feedstock comes from Venezuela and is secure (Venezuela owns 50% of that refinery and Exxon the other half). Venezuelan crude is a lot cheaper than Canadian tar sands crude. So, again, Keystone sends a bunch of shitty crude to Texas where it can only be exported. If buyers can be found. Which is more and more unlikely.

Venezuelan crude is about as pure a crude as there is if I remember correctly. They use to call West Texas oil “sweet” because the minimal refining that it took to take it to market.

Btw, the Chavez (and heir) crowd sure have been quiet lately haven’t they?

350 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 5:54:37pm

Just testing something y’all.

351 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 5:54:53pm

re: #337 compound_Idaho

If it is such a loser, call their bluff and approve the project. Do you think they will intentionally spend billions on a loser?

That’s a good point, but pipelines, like herpes and time-share condos, are forever. A pipeline company might take the long view and shut it in, go bankrupt, reorganize and hold the asset for future use.

Blue skying here…

352 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 5:55:39pm

re: #348 Charles Johnson

Is’nt that the image some news stories use when covering some of these carbon issues?

353 palomino  Nov 14, 2014 5:57:36pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Mary Landrieu will support Keystone XL regardless of where the oil is refined, if for no other reason than her family has traditionally been in tight with Louisiana’s oil interests.

You can shorten all that to “because she’s from Louisiana.” The rest is irrelevant. In places like TX and LA, nothing trumps oil in political terms. Period.

What do you think produces cretins and tools like Jim Inhofe? It’s the influence of the energy industry, the lack of which would harm these states’ economies.

354 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 5:57:47pm

I’m learning more about the pipeline here than any bullshit attempt at a google search.

Thanks y’all.

355 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 5:58:44pm

Why do we live in such a tone deaf country? Why has having the right ideas always been so hard to sell?

356 BeachDem  Nov 14, 2014 5:59:12pm

re: #354 Resident of The United States of Jesus

I’m learning more about the pipeline here than any bullshit attempt at a google search.

Thanks y’all.

Me too. Glad I asked the question following upchuck’s tweet (something tells me he wouldn’t understand half of what has been said here.)

357 blueraven  Nov 14, 2014 5:59:43pm

re: #315 compound_Idaho

Quality healthcare for everyone is a noble goal.

MA has the highest spending per capita and the second high premiums.

spending
kff.org

premiums
kff.org

May not be the best model.

As it has been since 1992, long before RomneyCare

Health spending per capita has been higher than the nationwide average since at least 1992. Even after adjusting for income differences and federal grants received, the state spending per person was 15 percent higher than the U.S. average in 2004, according to the state Division of Health Care Finance and Policy. Massachusetts also had a dysfunctional individual market.

factcheck.org

358 palomino  Nov 14, 2014 6:00:37pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

You really think this is a principled stand by the right to uphold ethics in policy? Not an attempt to kill Obamacare? You can’t be that naive.

359 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 6:01:14pm

re: #357 blueraven

As it has been since 1992, long before RomneyCare

factcheck.org

Doesn’t Massachusetts also have a very high cost of living?

360 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:01:36pm

re: #351 austin_blue

That’s a good point, but pipelines, like herpes and time-share condos, are forever. A pipeline company might take the long view and shut it in, go bankrupt, reorganize and hold the asset for future use.

Blue skying here…

Great they’ll their Board that, Hey, if Canadian farts ever become a worth something special then we’ll be ready and there.

361 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 6:02:26pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

Oh please.

362 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 6:02:33pm
Why Does Massachusetts Health Care Cost So Much? Here’s What the Health Policy Commission Thinks
blog.massmed.org
363 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 6:02:38pm

re: #349 bill d

Venezuelan crude is about as pure a crude as there is if I remember correctly. They use to call West Texas oil “sweet” because the minimal refining that it took to take it to market.

Btw, the Chavez (and heir) crowd sure have been quiet lately haven’t they?

Some is, some isn’t. The production from the Orinoco Belt is pretty sour.

And yes, without the Cult of Personality that was El Hugo! they have been flying well under the radar.

364 Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2014 6:03:18pm

Found this on the web - a short primer about crude oil and refining.

Link

365 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:03:21pm

re: #358 palomino

You really think this is a principled stand by the right to uphold ethics in policy? Not an attempt to kill Obamacare? You can’t be that naive.

Win column for Dark. That’s all it is. That’s his basis of politics.

Hope his dinner is something ethnic.

366 Snarknado!  Nov 14, 2014 6:03:25pm

Charles, on my (android) phone, the right third of images (using your new image frame) is cut off unless the phone is in “landscape.” Also, moving from one orientation to another causes the page to move around, so I’m tens or hundreds of postings away from where I was when I shifted it.

Weird.

367 palomino  Nov 14, 2014 6:04:08pm

re: #315 compound_Idaho

Quality healthcare for everyone is a noble goal.

MA has the highest spending per capita and the second high premiums.

spending
kff.org

premiums
kff.org

May not be the best model.

Yes, and you get what you pay for. People in MA are healthier and have greater access to doctors than in nearly all other states.

But it’s nice to hear that you think it’s a noble goal. That’s what Republicans have been saying for 50 years now instead of actually proposing something (other than Romneycare, now reviled by the right) to address the problem of the uninsured.

368 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:05:02pm

re: #356 BeachDem

Me too. Glad I asked the question following upchuck’s tweet (something tells me he wouldn’t understand half of what has been said here.)

Me 3.

This is one of the few places on teh internets where you can ask an honest question, or have an honest wrong belief, and have it explained to you as, if not a friend, but as a human without the vicious dogpile.

It is a rare site and I appreciate Charles and all letting me be part of it. Years ago I would have trolled the sh*t out of this place.

369 b_sharp  Nov 14, 2014 6:08:49pm

re: #368 bill d

Me 3.

This is one of the few places on teh internets where you can ask an honest question, or have an honest wrong belief, and have it explained to you as, if not a friend, but as a human without the vicious dogpile.

It is a rare site and I appreciate Charles and all letting me be part of it. Years ago I would have trolled the sh*t out of this place.

TROLL!!!

We gots a TROLL!!!

370 b_sharp  Nov 14, 2014 6:09:26pm

If I wasn’t so frikken bored I’d be less bored.

371 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:10:20pm

re: #369 b_sharp

TROLL!!!

We gots a TROLL!!!

I’m not in a dungeon, I’m in a condo in Ft. Worth, TX

Back in the day sign ups were limited to certain time periods, that foiled me to no ends!!!

372 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:10:20pm

re: #368 bill d

Me 3.

This is one of the few places on teh internets where you can ask an honest question, or have an honest wrong belief, and have it explained to you as, if not a friend, but as a human without the vicious dogpile.

It is a rare site and I appreciate Charles and all letting me be part of it. Years ago I would have trolled the sh*t out of this place.

I was here at the tail end of crazy and would’ve loved your troll. My hero’s (some still here) were the pioneers of the LGF RWNJ push back.

373 Lidane  Nov 14, 2014 6:10:54pm

Hola Lizards! It has been a hectic week at work and it’s going to be even crazier for a while. I just got shifted to the flagship team in my division a couple of weeks ago and I’ve been doing what amounts to on the job training ever since. Today one of the team members that’s been training me got unceremoniously fired.

The fiscal period ends next week and my workload suddenly increased by a few orders of magnitude. Eep.

374 b_sharp  Nov 14, 2014 6:11:35pm

re: #372 Resident of The United States of Jesus

I was here at the tail end of crazy and would’ve loved your troll. My hero’s (some still here) were the pioneers of the LGF RWNJ push back.

Do you have enough heros here to make a hero sammich?

375 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:12:00pm

re: #370 b_sharp

If I wasn’t so frikken bored I’d be less bored.

Wish we were neighbors. I’m so bored too.

376 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:13:11pm

re: #373 Lidane

Hola Lizards! It has been a hectic week at work and it’s going to be even crazier for a while. I just got shifted to the flagship team in my division a couple of weeks ago and I’ve been doing what amounts to on the job training ever since. Today one of the team members that’s been training me got unceremoniously fired.

The fiscal period ends next week and my workload suddenly increased by a few orders of magnitude. Eep.

Onwards and upwards, glad its working out!!!!

377 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:13:57pm

re: #374 b_sharp

Do you have enough heros here to make a hero sammich?

Yeah. And you fucks are high calorie.

378 dog philosopher  Nov 14, 2014 6:14:24pm

re: #371 bill d

I’m not in a dungeon, I’m in a condo in Ft. Worth, TX

Back in the day sign ups were limited to certain time periods, that foiled me to no ends!!!

trolls live under bridges

for example, here is a picture of our very own bay bridge troll:

379 bratwurst  Nov 14, 2014 6:14:36pm
380 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 6:15:05pm

re: #368 bill d

Me 3.

This is one of the few places on teh internets where you can ask an honest question, or have an honest wrong belief, and have it explained to you as, if not a friend, but as a human without the vicious dogpile.

It is a rare site and I appreciate Charles and all letting me be part of it. Years ago I would have trolled the sh*t out of this place.

There are a lot of bright people here with a wide range of hands-on experience in various walks of life. At various times I’ve made a living by drilling for oil and gas as a well head geologist, flown jets, tended bar, and kept things from blowing up. I can do maths, change a baby, cook a tasty meal, run sound for a band, and stage a classical music festival.

And none of that has to be political. Facts are facts, and we should teach each other. That’s why this community is lovely.

381 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 6:16:03pm

re: #379 bratwurst

Nope. Republican victories in mid-term elections made Ebola into a non-issue.

382 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:17:11pm

And on a related note.

US ratings agency Standard & Poor’s has given the debt of social media giant Twitter the rating “junk”.

bbc.com

The glory days of blogs were awesome but Twitter has filled part of that niche, you don’t see elected officials posting on kos or RedState anymore. Blogs will always remain and will always remain awesome in what they do.

Twitter is a great closed circle that hurts us all and nobody can figure out how to make it work in a capitalistic model.

383 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 6:17:47pm

re: #380 austin_blue

There are a lot of bright people here with a wide range of hands-on experience in various walks of life. at various times I’ve made a living by drilling for oil and gas as a well head geologist, flown jets, tended bar, and kept things from blowing up. I can do maths, change a baby, cook a tasty meal, run sound for a band, and stage a classical music festival.

And none of that has to be political. Facts are facts, and we should teach each other. That’s why this community is lovely.

Learning about facts and getting educated is a swift path to eternal torment in Hell!!!

384 Lidane  Nov 14, 2014 6:18:14pm

Six years without a jobs bill and the GOP take a few days to pass Keystone XL.

I shouldn’t be surprised. The GOP would burn the country down state by state and call it a jobs program.

385 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 6:18:36pm

re: #365 Resident of The United States of Jesus

Win column for Dark. That’s all it is. That’s his basis of politics.

Hope his dinner is something ethnic.

Just pork chops and au gratin potatoes, but done very well. Done by my parents as a collaboration, it was a joy to eat.

386 Charles Johnson  Nov 14, 2014 6:21:13pm

re: #366 Snarknado!

Should be fixed now if you reload. Images scale to the screen size.

387 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 6:21:30pm

re: #369 b_sharp

TROLL!!!

We gots a TROLL!!!

Not anymore. Seems this one got a hold of a transmogrifying elixer.

388 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 6:22:43pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

If Gruber was so critical to selling Obamacare, can you give me an idea of how many times I could find you mentioning Gruber’s name and Obamacare in the same post here? I frankly had no idea who he was.

389 b_sharp  Nov 14, 2014 6:24:29pm

I’d troll the hell out of this place, but bumping my head against the underside of old wooden bridges gives me a migraine.

390 The Ghost of a Flea (R)  Nov 14, 2014 6:24:56pm

re: #358 palomino

You really think this is a principled stand by the right to uphold ethics in policy? Not an attempt to kill Obamacare? You can’t be that naive.

Let me introduce you to every other political assertion DF has ever made.

391 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:25:05pm

re: #378 dog philosopher

trolls live under bridges

for example, here is a picture of our very own bay bridge troll:

[Embedded content]

Those are beautiful and turning industrial fixtures into attractive pieces is a great idea. The gargoyles were nothing bit downspouts but with very little effort they were turned immortal. It is the little things that matter. Stuff like that makes a difference in a culture and is not allowed in a conservative, broke ass, low bidder, environment.

392 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:27:05pm

re: #389 b_sharp

I’d troll the hell out of this place, but bumping my head against the underside of old wooden bridges gives me a migraine.

Heh, some people probably wish that I would still quit trolling the hell out of this place!

393 bubba zanetti  Nov 14, 2014 6:27:20pm

Great cover of a ‘Southern Classic’:

Youtube Video

394 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 6:27:52pm

re: #358 palomino

You really think this is a principled stand by the right to uphold ethics in policy? Not an attempt to kill Obamacare? You can’t be that naive.

It’s an opportunistic attack to be sure, but so were Democratic attacks on Mitt Romney for his ‘47%’ remarks. The Slate article’s point was that GOP attacks on Obamacare via Gruber are well within the bounds of legitimate political tactics.

‘Opportunistic’ ≠ ‘Illegitimate’

395 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 6:29:24pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

It’s an opportunistic attack to be sure, but so were Democratic attacks on Mitt Romney for his ‘47%’ remarks. The Slate article’s point was that GOP attacks on Obamacare via Gruber are well within the bounds of legitimate political tactics.

‘Opportunistic’ ≠ ‘Illegitimate’

So, in other words, I’m not missing anything.

396 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 6:29:33pm

re: #388 EbolaSpotinAL

If Gruber was so critical to selling Obamacare, can you give me an idea of how many times I could find you mentioning Gruber’s name and Obamacare in the same post here? I frankly had no idea who he was.

Not critical, but he was visible and the Dems also used him to go after Mitt Romney.

397 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 6:29:40pm

Here is how various climate scientists think about global warming: What is important is the total amount of carbon. The easy stuff runs out, we are still OK, then what?

As an analogy, a guy may have a tendency to drink beer in ever increasing quantities. At first it is a sweet stout, liquid gold from the Brent brewery. As he starts to run out and get desperate, he turns to the beers other people left on the table and put out their cigarettes in (tar beer). That is when he should realize he has an addiction that is getting out of hand.

398 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 6:30:28pm

Just watched the Irish comedy series “Moone Boy” on my local PBS station. It’s about a boy and his imaginary friend. Very, very funny and goofy, “The Wonder Years” on Guinness. Check it out while you can, before the Koch Brothers take over PBS and turn it into a strip mine in Arizona, and then a strip mall in Beijing, and then finally a strip club in North Dakota.

399 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 6:33:44pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Not critical, but he was visible and the Dems also used him to go after Mitt Romney.

There’s a big difference between starting out with something that is true (i.e., Obamacare = Romneycare) and looking for the juiciest spokesperson to make that point, like the Democrats did to Romney, and starting with a lie (e.g., climate change denial, and innumerable other RWNJ stupidities) and looking for a conveniently-credentialed spokes-puppet to provide cover for the lies.

400 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 6:34:54pm
401 palomino  Nov 14, 2014 6:35:00pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

It’s an opportunistic attack to be sure, but so were Democratic attacks on Mitt Romney for his ‘47%’ remarks. The Slate article’s point was that GOP attacks on Obamacare via Gruber are well within the bounds of legitimate political tactics.

‘Opportunistic’ ≠ ‘Illegitimate’

Except comparing Gruber to Romney is not remotely apt. One was running for the highest office in the land, meaning he’s supposed to represent all our people. When he clearly thinks half of them are irresponsible deadbeats, how can he claim to represent the whole? Gruber is running for nothing, and is an obscure policy wonk. His comments mean very little, whereas a candidate’s comments regarding half the country’s moral fiber mean a hell of a lot.

402 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:36:15pm

oops, double post

…..

403 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 6:37:01pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Not critical, but he was visible and the Dems also used him to go after Mitt Romney.

He was so visible that I didn’t even see him. I was very involved in keeping up with ACA stuff when it was going through the process and I never heard of the guy until now.

404 Interesting Times  Nov 14, 2014 6:39:38pm

re: #403 Sionainn

He was so visible that I didn’t even see him. I was very involved in keeping up with ACA stuff when it was going through the process and I never heard of the guy until now.

That’s because GOPers (*cough* Issa *cough*) are drooling over the prospect of dragging him before committees and turning him into an OMG biggest scandal evah repeal obamacare impeach obama!!!1!!! excuse.

After all, Benghazi fizzled, so it’s imperative they find another fake outrage upon which to waste millions of taxpayer dollars.

405 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 6:40:23pm

re: #403 Sionainn

He was so visible that I didn’t even see him. I was very involved in keeping up with ACA stuff when it was going through the process and I never heard of the guy until now.

You were doing solid work on policy. That’s irrelevant. Gruber was very visible to RWNjs because of his connections with Romneycare that were exploited by the Democrats. That RWNJ throbbing butthurt is what is important here.

406 b_sharp  Nov 14, 2014 6:41:30pm

I’ve just started taking web design seriously and have delved into HTML5, CSS3, javascript and Wordpress. Relearning how to code isn’t too bad, although javascript has a few capabilities C never had. What I do find frustrating is getting an idea late in the evening and then staying awake trying to solidify the idea while also trying to sleep. Over the last three nights I’ve had about 15 hours of sleep in bits and pieces.

Just so you guys know, I’m only here to preserve my sanity.

407 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 6:43:29pm

Yep, yep, yep.

408 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:43:53pm

Was HillaryCare worse than Obamacare? I forget.

409 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 6:44:50pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Not critical, but he was visible and the Dems also used him to go after Mitt Romney.

Is that another way of saying you mentioned him zero times ? I have no doubt Gruber was visible to the people working in the government on healthcare, and even critical in that his modeling was essential to those actually writing the law. Dems using him to go after Mitt Romney , vs a reporter asking, well that depends on who initiated contact, doesn’t it? (basically showing a politician is a slick liar - a first!)

410 #FergusonFireside  Nov 14, 2014 6:45:21pm

re: #407 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Yep, yep, yep.

and fuck them, we are watching. And are on their game.

Thank you social media. No more lies.

411 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 6:46:09pm

re: #408 bill d

Was HillaryCare worse than Obamacare? I forget.

My assumption is that HillaryCare was a better proposal than Obamacare because Obamacare essentially started out life as a RW think tank counter-proposal to HillaryCare (Heritage foundation, IIRC).

412 austin_blue  Nov 14, 2014 6:46:31pm

re: #397 EbolaSpotinAL

Here is how various climate scientists think about global warming: What is important is the total amount of carbon. The easy stuff runs out, we are still OK, then what?

As an analogy, a guy may have a tendency to drink beer in ever increasing quantities. At first it is a sweet stout, liquid gold from the Brent brewery. As he starts to run out and get desperate, he turns to the beers other people left on the table and put out their cigarettes in (tar beer). That is when he should realize he has an addiction that is getting out of hand.

The logical fallacy to that argument is that there is no alternative to beer. There is, of course. There’s pot. You don’t wake up with a hangover and a mouth full of desolation.

We don’t have to be totally dependent on fossil fuels, now. We can wean ourselves off of them. They will still be necessary for plastics, fertilizers, and air travel, but for power generation and transportation, we are discovering more and more options.

Have you seen this? Granted it would be expensive to implement, but it’s an option:

en.wikipedia.org

It’s not a zero sum game. We *do* have viable options. Entrenched interests don’t like them, but you now what?, we are not here to guarantee anyone’s profit. Markets do not exist to do so. Stagecoach and buggy whip manufacturers didn’t like automobiles.

413 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 6:46:59pm


The Bell X-22 (1966), a project of the US Air Force that went nowhere but did enable several congressmen and senators to bring home the bacon, which is the most important thing of all in a democracy.

414 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 6:49:35pm

At the heart of so many of these issues:

Subsidized health-care, or none;
Allowing immigrants in, or none;
Disproportionate imprisonment of black males;
etc…

is the goal of a privileged group not wanting to give up its privileges.

We humans really don’t want a flat (equal) society. We want a hierarchy. In America, the dominant expression of this hierarchy is money, though there are other variables.

In my lifetime one of the stranger phenomenons is how the very rich have been able to maneuver the know-nothings into doing their (the very rich’s) agenda without the know-nothings realizing it.

415 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 6:51:46pm

re: #413 De Kolta Chair

“The first X-22 flew in March 1966. It was damaged on its 15th flight, its parts salvaged to build another X-22 that completed 228 tests until it was retired in 1984. The plane now resides on display at the Niagara Aerospace Museum in Niagara Falls, N.Y.”
fantastic-plastic.com

416 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 6:54:46pm

re: #412 austin_blue

austin blue, I agree with the fact that we have alternatives, need to pursue them and is not a zero sum game. I was trying to address specifically what is the objection to using tar sands. Surely just a bit extra from Canada wouldn’t add too much (so the thinking goes - it gives us JRRBS!!1!!), then a little from shale oil, then from peat, etc.

417 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 6:55:45pm

What exactly does Putin wish to accomplish with his patrols of the Gulf of Mexico? The only home port on the Texas side was home to minesweepers and Ingleside is being shut down?

418 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 6:57:13pm

re: #417 bill d

Maybe he’s hoping a red scare will bump up oil prices a bit.

419 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 6:57:32pm

re: #417 bill d

What exactly does Putin wish to accomplish with his patrols of the Gulf of Mexico? The only home port on the Texas side was home to minesweepers and Ingleside is being shut down?

Did you see where Apple is worth more than the whole Russian Stock market? Heckuva a job, Pootie-Poot!

420 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 6:57:37pm
421 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 6:58:26pm

re: #415 jaunte

I can picture Dean Martin as Matt Helm buzzing around in one of those gizmos, a beehive-bouffanted bikini babe on his lap and a couple of rum & cokes in the cup holders.

422 Ed E. Lishus  Nov 14, 2014 6:59:50pm

re: #419 EbolaSpotinAL

Did you see where Apple is worth more than the whole Russian Stock market? Heckuva a job, Pootie-Poot!

He’s doing it to steal our precious bodily fluids Apples!

423 BlueSpotinAL  Nov 14, 2014 7:01:27pm

I have a question about Ferguson, if a criminal trial does not come about. Surely there will be a civil trial, and won’t discovery be able to turn up most of the crap the Police Departments are trying to hide? IANAL (obviously!)

424 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 7:02:08pm
425 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 7:03:30pm

re: #423 EbolaSpotinAL

I have a question about Ferguson, if a criminal trial does not come about. Surely there will be a civil trial, and won’t discovery be able to turn up most of the crap the Police Departments are trying to hide? IANAL (obviously!)

What’s this IANAL that everyone is using now?

426 EPR-radar  Nov 14, 2014 7:05:13pm

re: #425 Sionainn

What’s this IANAL that everyone is using now?

Short for I am not a lawyer.

427 Sionainn  Nov 14, 2014 7:05:36pm

re: #426 EPR-radar

Short for I am not a lawyer.

Thanks!

428 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:06:10pm

re: #413 De Kolta Chair

That just scratched the surface of the silly aircraft that have been built while chasing the vertical takeoff to level flight grail. I give you the Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142:

429 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:07:52pm

430 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 7:10:04pm

When is the grand jury supposed to come back with their findings? I have heard every day the last 10 days or so.

431 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:11:01pm

Heard an ad on the car radio touting an upcoming Kenny G concert in nearby Los Angeles. There’s a lot of speculation as to which note he’s going to play.

432 Jenner7  Nov 14, 2014 7:11:45pm

re: #430 bill d

They are thinking around November 23rd….

433 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 7:13:34pm

re: #428 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I was just looking at the Hiller X-18:
en.wikipedia.org

434 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 7:14:23pm

re: #431 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Is that how he got his name?

435 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:17:01pm


The Avro Vulcan, the UK’s Plan B to invade the US if that Beatles thing didn’t work out.

436 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:21:00pm

re: #435 De Kolta Chair

[Embedded image]
The Avro Vulcan, the UK’s Plan B to invade the US if that Beatles thing didn’t work out.

The Vulcan is a beautiful aircraft. There’s one in England, owned by foundation, that’s still flying.

437 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 7:23:19pm


©2003 Dick Clements

thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk)

438 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:25:18pm

re: #436 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The Vulcan is a beautiful aircraft. There’s one in England, owned by foundation, that’s still flying.

I gotta admit, it is a cool design.

439 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:27:46pm


The ABM system under construction in North Dakota, 1972.

Ribar or fubar? Only the Pentagon’s accountants know for sure.

440 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:27:49pm

I’m so old that I worked on this very aircraft. Surprised that the old girl is still around and dressed in VT-23’s colors.

441 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 7:28:37pm

re: #401 palomino

Except comparing Gruber to Romney is not remotely apt. One was running for the highest office in the land, meaning he’s supposed to represent all our people. When he clearly thinks half of them are irresponsible deadbeats, how can he claim to represent the whole? Gruber is running for nothing, and is an obscure policy wonk. His comments mean very little, whereas a candidate’s comments regarding half the country’s moral fiber mean a hell of a lot.

Exactly. This times a 1000.

442 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:29:11pm

re: #440 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I’m so old that I worked on this very aircraft. Surprised that the old girl is still around and dressed in VT-23’s colors.

[Embedded content]

A lovely little number. Is that Davis-Monthan AFB? Looks like the Catalina Mountains in the background. Has to be D-M, the Palo Verde tree is a dead give-away. Lovely tree, the Palo Verde. Sometimes in the big city I miss the sound of the cicadas who reside in them. I lived on D-M from 1966 through 1974.

443 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 7:32:49pm

Photos from Philae:
flickr.com

444 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 7:34:56pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

This isn’t about underlying facts: This is about the fact the man the Democrats trotted out to sell their centerpiece policy and as an attack dog against Mitt Romney has had multiple pieces of footage come out in which he looks like a mendacious asshole.

I almost dare not say it, but #grubergate is about ethics in policy advocacy and legislation.

Give me a break DF. No one really heard of Gruber until this decided to be your party’s yet another hail mary attempt to get ACA repealed. Tell me what about is it that millions of your fellow Americans being insured bothers the leadership of your party so much? Is it that gasp Barack Obama may actually get credit on something? What’s really sad is that this policy that your party’s leadership derides was your party’s response. Hell Romney even called Masscare a model for the nation. ACA is more closer to the Republican response to Clintoncare than it is Clintoncare but instead of actually realizing that President Obama wasn’t some firebreathng radical on health care reform, your party chose to make ACA out to be this evil legislation. It’s sad really that your party cares more about President Obama being a failure than actually getting shit done. Maybe if you stopped treating the GOP less like a favorite sports team and more like a political entity whose actions have real impact of the lives our of our fellow Americans, you’d understand why so many of us would be happy if your party flopped entirely. They’ve done nothing to deserve the loyal opposition title during Barack Obama’s six years of president. And I apologize in advance if I am being too harsh with you but your party is full of greedy assholes man. And it’s too bad that you don’t seem to get it.

445 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:36:32pm

re: #443 jaunte

Photos from Philae:
flickr.com

Absolutely rootin’ tootin’ amazin’!

446 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:39:04pm

re: #442 De Kolta Chair

A lovely little number. Is that Davis-Monthan AFB? Looks like the Catalina Mountains in the background.

She’s at the Pima Air and Space Museum. We flew F9F-8 single seaters and TF-9J two seaters. They were great old birds and, like all Grumman products, tough as hell. I always thought that the TF-9s were the better looking aircraft (yes, they were flown by the Blue Angels at one time):

447 bill d  Nov 14, 2014 7:39:17pm

re: #443 jaunte

Photos from Philae:
flickr.com

Those are amazing. I really can’t understand the mental gymnastics that creationists have to go though to deny the wonders of the universe.

448 jaunte  Nov 14, 2014 7:40:22pm

re: #447 bill d

Really incredible. Landed after a 1km bounce.

449 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:44:36pm

re: #446 Higgs Boson’s Mate

She’s at the Pima Air and Space Museum. We flew F9F-8 single seaters and TF-9J two seaters. They were great old birds and, like all Grumman products, tough as hell. I always thought that the TF-9s were the better looking aircraft (yes, they were flown by the Blue Angels at one time):

[Embedded content]

I went to high school with the son, or one of the sons, of the fella who founded the museum. I swung by there last year. Hadn’t seen the place since they started, and boy howdy was I impressed by their collection and their dedication.

450 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 7:48:26pm

re: #449 De Kolta Chair

I went to high school with the son, or one of the sons, of the fella who founded the museum. I swung by there last year. Hadn’t seen the place since they started, and boy howdy was I impressed by their collection and their dedication.

They’ve just grown more and more impressive over the years. It’s been a while since I’ve visited, might be time for a road trip.

451 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:50:33pm

re: #450 Higgs Boson’s Mate

They’ve just grown more and more impressive over the years. It’s been a while since I’ve visited, might be time for a road trip.

One might get the idea that the folks who started and run it were and are right-wing military zealots, but they were actually very bright hipsters who lived in a geodesic dome and just plain love airplanes and aviation in general.

452 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 7:51:29pm

re: #447 bill d

Those are amazing. I really can’t understand the mental gymnastics that creationists have to go though to deny the wonders of the universe.

Video

453 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 7:53:40pm
454 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 7:55:52pm

re: #453 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Isn’t science grand? Seriously though, this is amazing. It’s even more amazing to think what we all could accomplish if we had more people that stopped seeing science as a threat to their religious beliefs.

455 Kragar  Nov 14, 2014 7:59:06pm

Of course the $5 fix didn’t fix my wife’s PC. That would have been too fucking simple.

456 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 7:59:15pm

Alright, who took my eraser?

Found it. My bad. Carry on.

457 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 8:04:43pm


What, no open bar? That truly is a nuclear nightmare scenario.

458 Decatur Deb  Nov 14, 2014 8:05:51pm

re: #436 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The Vulcan is a beautiful aircraft. There’s one in England, owned by foundation, that’s still flying.

Almost the last handful of them were used in one critical shot-in-anger, cratering Argentine runways during the Falklands war.

459 Decatur Deb  Nov 14, 2014 8:08:28pm

re: #451 De Kolta Chair

One might get the idea that the folks who started and run it were and are right-wing military zealots, but they were actually very bright hipsters who lived in a geodesic dome and just plain love airplanes and aviation in general.

The B17 I visited in Montgomery is here now. It does morning on-the-hour flyovers from the local airport for the next couple days.

460 Decatur Deb  Nov 14, 2014 8:22:33pm

Stuff is getting weird: Patti Smith will broadcast in a Christmas concert from the Vatican.

rollingstone.com

(Picked that up at Freep, found a credible source at Rolling Stone.)

461 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 8:23:47pm

re: #460 Decatur Deb

We’re all papists now.

462 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:24:40pm

re: #460 Decatur Deb

Stuff is getting weird: Patti Smith will broadcast in a Christmas concert from the Vatican.

rollingstone.com

(Picked that up at Freep, found a credible source at Rolling Stone.)

Heh. Francis is one impressive pontiff.

463 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 8:24:42pm

re: #457 De Kolta Chair

Reminds me of my current favorite game series:

464 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 8:24:57pm


The last B-36 built, 1954, and three of the workers who built them:

465 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 8:27:00pm

re: #463 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Reminds me of my current favorite game series:

[Embedded content]

I don’t want to set the world on fire….

466 freetoken  Nov 14, 2014 8:27:41pm

re: #464 De Kolta Chair

My mother used to solder at an aircraft plant here in San Diego, way back in Korean conflict days. I don’t think it was Convair, but maybe Ryan.

467 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:29:36pm

re: #464 De Kolta Chair

[Embedded image]
The last B-36 built, 1954, and three of the workers who built them:

[Embedded image]

Seeing that just makes me awestruck at what we accomplished as a country during the WWII years. It’s easy to take for granted now almost seventy years removed from the German and Japanese surrender but man. It makes you glad that we had the leadership we did. Roosevelt for all his warts deserves to be in the top echelon of not just American presidents but all time leaders.

468 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 8:29:57pm

re: #461 freetoken

We’re all papists now.

Well, these folks certainly are:

Coming soon: Duck Dynasty the musical

Just in case you haven’t gotten enough of the Robertson family’s Duck Dynasty, a Duck-themed musical is making it’s way to none other than Sin City itself. That’s right, Willie Robertson’s 2012 book, “The Duck Commander Family” is in the process of being made into a musical.

Actors will portray the characters in the Robertson family as they relive, via stage, the remarkable rags to riches story put together by several Broadway producers. But the family will, of course, keep the rights to approve both script and casting.

“The show will end up challenging the views and assumptions of people across the political spectrum, more than most theater does,” said Michael David, the Broadway producer developing the show. “The Robertsons are so unusual, their story so juicy, and theater shouldn’t be limited to telling stories about people you resemble or revere.”

Image: duck-dynasty-book.jpg

Note: While the original story is from the New York Times I don’t want to use up one of my ‘read free’ stories this month clicking on it. That’s why I used a gun.com link.

Anyway, the musical opens in February in Vegas. I wonder if they’ll be foolish enough to give the Palin family opening night tickets.

469 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 8:31:09pm

re: #467 HappyWarrior

Seeing that just makes me awestruck at what we accomplished as a country during the WWII years. It’s easy to take for granted now almost seventy years removed from the German and Japanese surrender but man. It makes you glad that we had the leadership we did. Roosevelt for all his warts deserves to be in the top echelon of not just American presidents but all time leaders.

That bomber was built 9 years after WWII ended. Eisenhower was in charge by then, though he was an excellent president in his own right.

470 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:31:46pm

re: #469 Dark_Falcon

That bomber was built 9 years after WWII ended. Eisenhower was in charge by then, though he was an excellent president in his own right.

Ah okay thanks for that tidbit. Still. Amazing what was accomplished in those years.

471 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 8:33:34pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

Coming soon: Duck Dynasty the musical

“It can’t miss: it’s just like The Beverley Hillbillies only with guns!”

472 Targetpractice  Nov 14, 2014 8:35:48pm

re: #469 Dark_Falcon

That bomber was built 9 years after WWII ended. Eisenhower was in charge by then, though he was an excellent president in his own right.

Funny thing is, work on the B-36 began before WWII. Started out as a contingency plan in case America’s allies in Europe fell, a bomber that could fly a round-trip bombing mission all the way to the heart of Europe. But because Britain never fell and we later gained a foothold in North Africa, the project was put on the back burner while Convair built other bomber types.

473 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:36:08pm

re: #471 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Coming soon: Duck Dynasty the musical

“It can’t miss: it’s just like The Beverley Hillbillies only with guns!”

Imagine the Beverly Hillbillies if they were unlikable bigots. Agh “Reality TV” is such a pathetic plague. I can’t really blame the Robertsons though. If people are actually going to pay for that, that’s more shame on them than on the Robertsons for capitalizing. I just don’t know why anyone would want to watch a musical about a family that’s made its fortune in duck whistles and has a patriarch that doesn’t understand why likening consensual sex between adults to bestiality is offensive.

474 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:36:37pm

re: #472 Targetpractice

Funny thing is, work on the B-36 began before WWII. Started out as a contingency plan in case America’s allies in Europe fell, a bomber that could fly a round-trip bombing mission all the way to the heart of Europe. But because Britain never fell and we later gained a foothold in North Africa, the project was put on the back burner while Convair built other bomber types.

Interesting. Always impressed with the knowledge here on various subjects.

475 teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2014 8:37:36pm

Duck Dynasty. The Best of The Worst on Television.

476 Decatur Deb  Nov 14, 2014 8:38:04pm

re: #472 Targetpractice

Funny thing is, work on the B-36 began before WWII. Started out as a contingency plan in case America’s allies in Europe fell, a bomber that could fly a round-trip bombing mission all the way to the heart of Europe. But because Britain never fell and we later gained a foothold in North Africa, the project was put on the back burner while Convair built other bomber types.

The original spec, consequently, was all-prop. Later it became “6 turnin’ and 4 burnin’.” A co-worker was navigator on one.l

477 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:38:27pm

re: #475 teleskiguy

Duck Dynasty. The Best of The Worst on Television.

I confess. I watched it once. I did not see the appeal at all. Granted I’m not the target audience but “Reality TV” is a whole thing I’ve never gotten into since “Reality TV” isn’t even real at all. It’s scripted fake drama.

478 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 8:41:19pm

re: #473 HappyWarrior

Imagine the Beverly Hillbillies if they were unlikable bigots. Agh “Reality TV” is such a pathetic plague. I can’t really blame the Robertsons though. If people are actually going to pay for that, that’s more shame on them than on the Robertsons for capitalizing. I just don’t know why anyone would want to watch a musical about a family that’s made its fortune in duck whistles and has a patriarch that doesn’t understand why likening consensual sex between adults to bestiality is offensive.

Well, first is the entrepreneur angle, as Americans love stories of ordinary people who got rich because they filled a market need. Then there is the fact that the Robertsons are seen as embodying ‘conservative values’ while giving ‘liberal pieties’ the backhand.

479 Higgs Boson's Mate  Nov 14, 2014 8:41:27pm

re: #464 De Kolta Chair

Another amazing aircraft. They used to occasionally fly over when I was a youngster. You couldn’t miss ‘em: the sound of those contra-rotating pusher props cutting the exhaust from six 28-cylinder Pratt & Whitney Wasp Major engines (3,000 HP each) made a deep bass sound.

480 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:42:41pm

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

Well, first is the entrepreneur angle, as Americans love stories of ordinary people who got rich because they filled a market need. Then there is the fact that the Robertsons are seen as embodying ‘conservative values’ while giving ‘liberal pieties’ the backhand.

Yeah but a musical? Come on now. And since when do conservatives like musicals anyhow if we must turn this political. I mean there’s lots of great stories out there. Not everything needs to be a turned into a million dollar industry. Like I’ve seen DD flasks and such.

481 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 8:45:43pm

re: #480 HappyWarrior

Yeah but a musical? Come on now. And since when do conservatives like musicals anyhow if we must turn this political. I mean there’s lots of great stories out there. Not everything needs to be a turned into a million dollar industry. Like I’ve seen DD flasks and such.

I couldn’t really comment further since I don’t watch the show. I think the idea of a musical based on it is nutty. myself.

482 HappyWarrior  Nov 14, 2014 8:48:38pm

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

I couldn’t really comment further since I don’t watch the show. I think the idea of a musical based on it is nutty. myself.

I guess I’m tired of this phenomenon we have of making people famous for being famous. Seems like it used to be people earned their fame by either being in great movies or whatever. I mean good for the Robertsons for finding success in their market. But the whole DD thing is just bizarre to me. It’s not merely DD so lest you think this is me attacking a conservative family. I thought Jersey Shore was absolute garbage and it disgusted me seeing someone like Mike the Situation Sorrentino or whatever his name is become a multi-millionaire.that’s the kind of crap that makes me greatly cynical.

483 Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2014 8:49:38pm

re: #482 HappyWarrior

I guess I’m tired of this phenomenon we have of making people famous for being famous. Seems like it used to be people earned their fame by either being in great movies or whatever. I mean good for the Robertsons for finding success in their market. But the whole DD thing is just bizarre to me. It’s not merely DD so lest you think this is me attacking a conservative family. I thought Jersey Shore was absolute garbage and it disgusted me seeing someone like Mike the Situation Sorrentino or whatever his name is become a multi-millionaire.that’s the kind of crap that makes me greatly cynical.

Quite Concur.

484 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 8:50:34pm


The Bain Capital Players rehearse their latest production, “I Lost It In A Sweatshop, or Run Mitt Run!”

485 De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2014 9:02:14pm

You know who gets short shrift? Bobbie Gentry, that’s who. The only song anyone remembers by her is “Harper Valley, PTA.” A good song, so good that Bob Dylan and The Hawks recorded an answer song, “Clothes Line Saga” on the Basement Tapes. Anyway, check out her cover of “Fool On The Hill,” from her excellent 1968 album “Local.”
Youtube Video

486 Pip's Squeak  Nov 14, 2014 9:25:39pm

re: #276 Kragar

I took Pre-Algebra in Middle School. HS was Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, then Pre calculus/Trigonometry senior year.

same, mid sixties Southern California.


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