NYPD Labor Union Declares “We Have Become a Wartime Police Department”

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A sociopathic career criminal goes on a rampage in Brooklyn, shoots his girlfriend and two police officers, then kills himself. Then the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, Patrick Lynch, goes on television and blames Mayor de Blasio and the “Black Lives Matter” protesters for it.

One killer on a rampage is now equal to every protester against police brutality. It’s beyond outrageous.

And even worse — now the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association is actually ranting about being a “wartime police department:” Updates on Fatal Shooting of Two N.Y.P.D. Officers.

A statement purporting to be from the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, the biggest police union, blamed Mr. de Blasio for the shootings.

“The mayor’s hands are literally dripping with our blood because of his words, actions and policies,” read the statement, “and we have, for the first time in a number of years, become a ‘wartime’ police department. We will act accordingly.”

They’re declaring war on the protesters? Because of one crazed individual who is already dead?

The usually buried systemic racism is right on the surface now. It’s getting really ugly out there.

UPDATE at 12/21/14 1:19:49 pm by Charles Johnson

The PBA is now denying they issued the “wartime” memo. But even if they didn’t, as you can see from the video above, their public rhetoric is every bit as inflammatory as the now-disputed memo.

Here’s the full text of the memo in question:

At least two units are to respond to EVERY call, no matter the condition or severity, no matter what type of job is pending, or what the option of the patrol supervisor happens to be. IN ADDITION: Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest. These are precautions that were taken in the 1970’s when Police Officers were ambushed and executed on a regular basis. The mayors hands are literally dripping with our blood because of his words actions and policies and we have, for the first time in a number of years, become a ‘wartime’ police department. We will act accordingly.

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127 comments
1 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:11:40pm

I guess Lynch just wants to live up to his name.

2 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:12:21pm
3 Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 21, 2014 1:14:02pm

Why do I fear this is only the beginning?

4 lawhawk  Dec 21, 2014 1:14:40pm

Who does the NYPD answer to? This police union? Or to the civilian political elected leaders of the City of New York. Pat Lynch appears mistaken on who is in charge and who sets policy.

And that is to the detriment of everyone who lives and works in the City.

The cop killer acted alone. He claimed many a thing, but was a criminal long before Eric Garner or Michael Brown or John Crawford or Tamir Rice entered the conversation. He had a lengthy arrest record, and had shot and attempted to kill his girlfriend earlier in the day.

Justice. Only Justice Shalt Thou Pursue. It’s not empty words, and yet the police don’t think that justice applies to them just as equally as it does to those that wish to do others harm.

5 Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2014 1:14:44pm

I’m curious when we hear about the past history of the cops and hear wingnut pundits opine about how they “deserved” to be shot.

6 GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 21, 2014 1:15:39pm

So we can declare a war against police when they keep killing unarmed people?

Didn’t think so.

7 KerFuFFler  Dec 21, 2014 1:15:46pm

I saw a commenter at a different site complaining that the actions a “few bad police” are unfairly tarnishing the reputations of police everywhere.

Well, as long as they keep supporting the “few bad police” in their midst instead of trying to get them off their forces they deserve the tarnished reputations.

8 Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2014 1:17:06pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Who does the NYPD answer to? This police union? Or to the civilian political elected leaders of the City of New York. Pat Lynch appears mistaken on who is in charge and who sets policy.

And that is to the detriment of everyone who lives and works in the City.

The cop killer acted alone. He claimed many a thing, but was a criminal long before Eric Garner or Michael Brown or John Crawford or Tamir Rice entered the conversation. He had a lengthy arrest record, and had shot and attempted to kill his girlfriend earlier in the day.

Justice. Only Justice Shalt Thou Pursue. It’s not empty words, and yet the police don’t think that justice applies to them just as equally as it does to those that wish to do others harm.

Considering the story of a cop who’s first action after an accidental shooting was to text his union rep, I’m getting the feeling that the departments feel more beholden to Lynch than they do de Blasio. Which is a very unsettling situation, when an unelected jackass holds more sway over the law enforcement community in a major city than the highest elected official.

9 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 1:18:33pm
10 Randall Gross  Dec 21, 2014 1:18:33pm

The other reality: These union reps are political, and they are adopting the pose they think they have to. What’s wrong with our culture and the social compact that makes it either/or, us vs. them for pols? We really need to get out of binary thinking modes if we want to survive this century as a nation.

11 Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2014 1:18:39pm

re: #7 KerFuFFler

I saw a commenter at a different site complaining that the actions a “few bad police” are unfairly tarnishing the reputations of police everywhere.

Well, as long as they keep supporting the “few bad police” in their midst instead of trying to get them off their forces they deserve the tarnished reputations.

What got swallowed by this shooting was a case of an plain-clothes cop caught on camera repeatedly punching a hand-cuffed teen in the gut. The teen was being held by four other cops, and not one of them moved to stop the beating.

12 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:18:52pm

I believe its past time to clean house in the NYPD

13 Randall Gross  Dec 21, 2014 1:19:00pm

re: #4 lawhawk

That was well said and written friend.

14 makeitstop  Dec 21, 2014 1:19:23pm

I said it last night, and I’ll say it again.

That wasn’t a statement, it was a threat.

15 goddamnedfrank  Dec 21, 2014 1:19:36pm

Meanwhile being a commercial fisherman, construction or sanitation worker, roofer, truck driver or logger is still far more dangerous and deadly than being a cop.

16 unproven innocence  Dec 21, 2014 1:19:50pm

A declaration of war from the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association —how Orwellian.

17 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 21, 2014 1:20:14pm

reposted from downstairs:

So the New York Police, by murdering unarmed suspects, have done nothing to provoke rage or violence against them, but those calling for reforms and justice are provoking violence?

Lemme get my right-wing brain wrapped around that.

18 Charles Johnson  Dec 21, 2014 1:20:49pm

The PBA is now denying they issued the “wartime” memo. But even if they didn’t, as you can see from the video above, their public rhetoric is every bit as inflammatory as the now-disputed memo.

Here’s the full text of the memo in question:

At least two units are to respond to EVERY call, no matter the condition or severity, no matter what type of job is pending, or what the option of the patrol supervisor happens to be. IN ADDITION: Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest. These are precautions that were taken in the 1970’s when Police Officers were ambushed and executed on a regular basis. The mayors hands are literally dripping with our blood because of his words actions and policies and we have, for the first time in a number of years, become a ‘wartime’ police department. We will act accordingly.

19 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 1:21:05pm

Policeman need hearing aid. Justice not just us.

20 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 21, 2014 1:21:41pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

What got swallowed by this shooting was a case of an plain-clothes cop caught on camera repeatedly punching a hand-cuffed teen in the gut. The teen was being held by four other cops, and not one of them moved to stop the beating.

We have seen from killings like the one in Ferguson that is not just a few bad apples, the rot is systemic and reaches all the way to the top.

21 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Dec 21, 2014 1:22:26pm

I kinda feel like chalking this up to racism is missing the point in a really dangerous way. There’s been for quite a while an “Us vs. Them” mentality among police, and when police declare war, they’re declaring it against the people they’re supposed to serve and protect.

The United States hasn’t really existed long enough as a country to go through all the various horrors that every other country with a longer history has gone through.

But we’ll get around to all of them sooner or later, just watch. Several of them have been simmering for decades now.

22 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 1:22:49pm
And even worse — now the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association is actually ranting about being a “wartime police department:” Updates on Fatal Shooting of Two N.Y.P.D. Officers.

Well, in 2011 Michael Bloomberg said “I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world.”

So, apparently this “wartime police department” is nothing new…

23 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 1:22:49pm

Yet this is okay but Michael Brown’s step father is a violent agiator.

24 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:24:11pm
25 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 21, 2014 1:24:33pm

re: #21 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

But we’ll get around to all of them sooner or later, just watch. Several of them have been simmering for decades now.

Like Class War in the cities and countryside?

26 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:24:51pm

I was reading the last thread and posted a comment when I saw this thread. So, I want to put it here as it fits this topic.

Targetpractice posted this comment…

re: #435 Targetpractice

Yes, apparently they can’t point to anything Sharpton, De Blasio, Holder, or the President has said that is “anti-cop,” so they’re stuck now just insinuating that criticism of inequality in how laws are enforced is itself “anti-cop.”

And I made this comment.

Do not look for any sane reasoning. All they are saying is they do not want to hear it, especially from Sharpton, De Blasio, Holder and the President. They hate them, no reason needed.

Sharpton has long carried baggage in New York from the Tawana Brawley rape mess. No matter what he changes, or becomes after he gets to learn his lesson too, they will never forget him as that Al Sharpton.

The others are hated because they do what drives many stark raving crazy. They mention race, even if reluctantly. And with all of this in the news repeatedly over the last half of this year, they see it as “race talk, all the damn time” even if FOX is guilty of driving race issues as much as anyone.

I see it as one of those gonna get worse before better scenarios. Too much pressure building on both sides. The media will ride all of this hard and just add to everyone’s frustration. What a mess.

Yeah…we are at war. Underground now, but fixing to pop out. I expect the police to be even more brutal. They will be out to put on a show. A show of who they see as in charge.

27 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 1:24:56pm

Wartime? Why would that resonate in a peculiar way? MRAPS, snipers, camouflage, sonic weapons from overseas. No knock entry, Flash bang grenades first get address right later.

Yup wartime indeed.

28 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 1:25:22pm

re: #24 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Seriously fuck the right and their double standard bullshit.

29 makeitstop  Dec 21, 2014 1:26:18pm

re: #24 Kragar

Apparently right wing talk hosts praising armed militias threatening to shoot federal agents doesn’t influence anyone, but protesting police means you support killing cops

A little adjustment.

30 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:26:31pm

re: #2 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Just waiting for this to morph into the Black protesters being supporters of ISIS (or some variation on that bit of twisted wingnut logic/illusory correlation).

*SIGH* I think I’m gonna limit my online time this coming week. As it is, I already had a guy attack me for something Gus said that he disliked. We were discussing Dawkins because Gus had Tweeted:

I mentioned Dawkins’ & Harris’ true colors beginning to show, and Gus responded with this:

So naturally, the Warpspeedx3 guy attacked me. Makes sense, I guess—if you’re an anti-Muslim bigot:

31 KerFuFFler  Dec 21, 2014 1:27:09pm

re: #16 unproven innocence

A declaration of war from the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association —how Orwellian.

Now I am retroactively glad I have not made donations to their organization when they call asking for money. I routinely say that their salaries and benefits are paid for by tax dollars and that I will save my donations for actual charities. I also tell them I don’t approve of them reciprocating donations with stickers to put on cars———that seems inherently corrupt. I don’t know if they do that anymore. They have stopped calling me…

32 #FergusonFireside  Dec 21, 2014 1:27:32pm
33 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 1:27:39pm

re: #9 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Two steps forward, one step back.

Forever, it seems.

34 Randall Gross  Dec 21, 2014 1:29:13pm

re: #30 CuriousLurker

You need to block ‘em ignore them and keep doing what you do. The best reply is to persist.

35 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:29:43pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

Meanwhile being a commercial fisherman, construction or sanitation worker, roofer, truck driver or logger is still far more dangerous and deadly than being a cop.

Or a taxi driver. I had cops tell me on more than one occasion that they would never drive a cab unarmed and let some stranger with unknown intentions sit behind them, especially at night.

36 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:31:01pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Who does the NYPD answer to? This police union? Or to the civilian political elected leaders of the City of New York. Pat Lynch appears mistaken on who is in charge and who sets policy.

And that is to the detriment of everyone who lives and works in the City.

The cop killer acted alone. He claimed many a thing, but was a criminal long before Eric Garner or Michael Brown or John Crawford or Tamir Rice entered the conversation. He had a lengthy arrest record, and had shot and attempted to kill his girlfriend earlier in the day.

Justice. Only Justice Shalt Thou Pursue. It’s not empty words, and yet the police don’t think that justice applies to them just as equally as it does to those that wish to do others harm.

Just keep it simple lawhawk.

They are the Police.

They see themselves as never wrong.*

*Seemingly, now more then ever. Protected by prosecutors and politicians. Deemed heroes to give them a huge sense of superiority. Trained like a military squad against the enemy rather than a citizen protection squad out to assist and serve. Bad attitudes fueled by RWNJs type media like Limbaugh, Beck and the rest. All a real bad brew.

37 b.d.  Dec 21, 2014 1:31:04pm

Aren’t University degrees offered in public relations and don’t large organizations routinely employ people who specialize in that field?

38 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:32:17pm

Oops: Updated my #30, so please refresh if you want to see the cretin’s tweet.

39 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 1:32:57pm

re: #37 b.d.

Aren’t University degrees offered in public relations and don’t large organizations routinely employ people who specialize in that field?

It’s pretty naive to think that PR people are going to be given free rein to say anything that’s not dictated to them by those who pay their salaries.

40 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:33:13pm

re: #8 Targetpractice

Considering the story of a cop who’s first action after shooting an accidental shooting was to text his union rep, I’m getting the feeling that the departments feel more beholden to Lynch than they do de Blasio. Which is a very unsettling situation, when an unelected jackass holds more sway over the law enforcement community in a major city than the highest elected official.

And *cough* the head of a union.

So, I guess there is one union they can get behind. Go figure.

41 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 1:34:24pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

Meanwhile being a commercial fisherman, construction or sanitation worker, roofer, truck driver or logger is still far more dangerous and deadly than being a cop.

Heh, I was thinking night clerk at gas station/convenience store as more dangerous. They forget we citizens (en masse not per capita of course) face the bad guys far and away more often than they do. Most felons commit a lot of crimes for every arrest.

42 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:36:03pm

re: #34 Randall Gross

You need to block ‘em ignore them and keep doing what you do. The best reply is to persist.

Yep, I make it a point to never engage with haters. It only encourages them, so I just block ‘em & move on. Like my Twitter profile’s masthead says, “The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.” ;-)

43 KerFuFFler  Dec 21, 2014 1:36:10pm

re: #41 Rightwingconspirator

They forget we citizens (en masse not per capita of course) face the bad guys far and away more often than they do. Most felons commit a lot of crimes for every arrest.

Pretty brilliant for simple math!

44 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 1:36:36pm

re: #8 Targetpractice

Considering the story of a cop who’s first action after an accidental shooting was to text his union rep, I’m getting the feeling that the departments feel more beholden to Lynch than they do de Blasio. Which is a very unsettling situation, when an unelected jackass holds more sway over the law enforcement community in a major city than the highest elected official.

When police think and act as tough they are not accountable to civilian oversight and authority, you get these kinds of outcomes.

It also means that We The People have little or no leverage in actually effecting meaningful change, since the police do not see themselves as anwering to us (and boy, have there been a lot of police statements and actions to that end over the last ten years).

If the police cannot reform themselves and do not consider themselves as subordinate to the will of the people…you run out of legitimate democratic means of peacefully dealing with them.

I really hope this is not where the NYPD is taking us…but it really does look that way.

45 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Dec 21, 2014 1:38:33pm

re: #30 CuriousLurker

Like Sam Harris saying “Pastor” Terry Jones was right.

[citation needed]

46 Varek Raith  Dec 21, 2014 1:39:38pm

re: #45 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

rationalskepticism.org

47 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 1:40:45pm

NYPD says 2 Con Edison workers witnessed shooting of officers and chased suspect - live video
end of alert

NYPD says gunman took a Bolt bus to New York City and told people to follow him on Instagram right before he killed 2 officers - live video
end of alert

NYPD says no evidence that killer of 2 officers had any gang affiliation - live video
end of alert

(Live video has concluded)

Now if Lynch would just STFU.

48 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:41:18pm

re: #45 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

[citation needed]

littlegreenfootballs.com

49 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:43:24pm

re: #39 Justanotherhuman

It’s pretty naive to think that PR people are going to be given free rein to say anything that’s not dictated to them by those who pay their salaries.

I was on this topic a bit last evening. I think what b.d. is saying is the police NEED to listen to PR people.

In other words they need to make it clear to the cops that are blathering all over…what you are saying is not serving you well and not in your best interest. Shut the hell up right now. Don’t say anything if you’re going to try to keep doing this on your own.

But pride always gets in the way of rational thought.

50 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 1:43:58pm

So, can we conclude that Brinsley was a “lone wolf” not affiliated with any of the recent protests as well?

Come on, NYPD, say it.

51 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:43:59pm

re: #29 makeitstop

A little adjustment.

I only have 140 characters

52 William Burns  Dec 21, 2014 1:44:34pm

On top of everything else, they don’t know what “literally” means.

53 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 1:45:02pm

re: #49 ObserverArt

And it must be awfully tough for a PR person to work for such authoritarian types who never think what they say is wrong.

54 Kragar  Dec 21, 2014 1:45:04pm
55 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 1:45:06pm

So.

How long until we get video of NYPD officers brutalizing (and hospitalizing) Eric Garner protesters while Boss Lynch goes on air to tell us they brought it on themselves and “incited violence”.

If the reaction to the Occupy movement is any guide, NYPD brutality refuses to go underground for very long.

56 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:46:53pm

re: #53 Justanotherhuman

And it must be awfully tough for a PR person to work for such authoritarian types who never think what they say is wrong.

Well, I am not going to get carried away by thinking they do have PR people. Just that they should.

/

57 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Dec 21, 2014 1:48:20pm

re: #54 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Do not forget the AMA or the American Bar Association..those are professional organizations, NOT UNIONS!!!

58 CuriousLurker  Dec 21, 2014 1:50:16pm

I’m gonna go make all this ugliness disappear for a while by grabbing a brush and finishing the color charts I was making for my new watercolors. So there.

Later, lizards.

59 makeitstop  Dec 21, 2014 1:50:31pm

re: #51 Kragar

I only have 140 characters

Good point.

60 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:51:58pm

re: #57 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Do not forget the AMA or the American Bar Association..those are professional organizations, NOT UNIONS!!!

Brilliant. Just don’t call them unions. Now we can go back to professionalizing all sorts of work places. Who doesn’t like things to be more professionally done?

61 b.d.  Dec 21, 2014 1:52:00pm

re: #49 ObserverArt

Thank you for saying thoughtfully and succinctly what I was fumbling around for words for.

62 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 1:53:13pm

We’ve discussed this alleged statement extensively yesterday. Despite the denials, the rhetoric of “blood” is indeed the same as in Lynch’s speech - and in the independent SBA statement. I don’t know if the statement is authentic, but I doubt the denials.

63 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 1:53:18pm

re: #49 ObserverArt

I was on this topic a bit last evening. I think what b.d. is saying is the police NEED to listen to PR people.

In other words they need to make it clear to the cops that are blathering all over…what you are saying is not serving you well and not in your best interest. Shut the hell up right now. Don’t say anything if you’re going to try to keep doing this on your own.

But pride always gets in the way of rational thought.

It doesn’t matter any more.

It is already a right wing/left wing culture war battlefield front now, and Boss Lynch, Cleveland facist Mussolini blackshirt constabulari Jeffrey Follmer et al are broadcasting to white grievance apologists.

Obummer, Sharpton and that race traitor deBlasio with his half breed bastard teen spawn are keeping us from our job of stomping on the necks of those savages who want your nubile virgin daughters!

Not really a joke. That is the subtext of the arguments I see everyday on cop sites: black racists are destroying white police officers, and you mooching complainers deserve to be abandoned to the criminal savages (they really love that word), so shut the fuck up if you know what’s good for you…and BTW, ‘civilians’ have no clue what cops do, and have no right to complain or oversee or have any influence on what cops do, how they do it or why they do it. Period. Ever. Shut the fuck up.

Because reasons.

64 Higgs Boson's Mate  Dec 21, 2014 1:53:50pm

Patrick Lynch seems to be unaware of the advances in asymmetrical warfare over the past few years. I feel sorry for the good cops if his inflammatory statements put the NYPD in the position of seeing those advancements at first hand.

65 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 1:54:03pm

When in doubt blame Sharpton. right wing playbook.

66 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 1:55:18pm
67 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 1:55:58pm

re: #66 Backwoods_Sleuth

rah rah 2nd amdt

68 Bubblehead II  Dec 21, 2014 1:56:22pm

Lizards I am going to call it a day. Police Depts have been and will always be protection rackets. The more money you have the better protection/treatment you get.

If your at the bottom end or of the wrong racial profile, well your screwed. Been this way for decades. Even here in Twin Falls, Id. 83301

Can’t find the Heavy Metal clip of the cop reeling off the prices for investigating a crime, but if you have seen the flick, you know what I mean.

69 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 1:57:04pm

re: #67 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

rah rah 2nd amdt

and it’s too soon to talk about gun control…

70 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Dec 21, 2014 1:57:54pm

re: #46 Varek Raith

He might be crazy; he’s not crazy about Islam however. It’s inconvenient for our democracy that only our own religious demagogues are making sense and speaking candidly about the nature of Islam. The problem is we have this one word, “religion”, which everyone wants to think names a unified domain of doctrines, but “religion” is a word like “sports”; there are sports like badminton, and there are sports like Thai boxing, and they basically have nothing in common apart from breathing. We have to be honest about the actual doctrine of Islam, specifically about the doctrines of martyrdom and jihad, and only our own religious lunatics, frankly, are incessantly honest about the liabilities of these ideas; and with people like Mayor Bloomberg saying that 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam and Islam is a religion of peace, and that is delusional on its face, and I think it’s a destabilizing lie that we can’t keep telling ourselves.

Turns out context matters. How ‘bout that.

71 ObserverArt  Dec 21, 2014 1:59:05pm

re: #66 Backwoods_Sleuth

CBS New York ✔ @CBSNewYork

Boyce: gun found at scene was purchased in Georgia. Not recorded stolen. WATCH: cbsloc.al

I bet the cops will now race right out and tell everyone how eager they are to get gun control legislation underway to prevent this type of incident from happening.

Wait. What now? /

72 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:00:54pm

re: #69 Backwoods_Sleuth

and it’s too soon to talk about gun control…

To what end?

The gun was legal in Georgia, and was illegally transorted to Maryland, and illegally taken on public transportation to NYC.

The SCOTUS has already determined that pistols cannot be banned outright. If you think you are going to get some sort of gun control passed in Georgia, well, good luck.

We have the most individualistic culture on earth and our laws reflect that.

73 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 2:03:38pm

re: #72 Aunty Entity Dragon

We have the most individualistic culture on earth and our laws reflect that.

I’m tempted to write something like “well, enjoy”.

74 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 2:03:55pm

re: #72 Aunty Entity Dragon

To what end?

The gun was legal in Georgia, and was illegally transorted to Maryland, and illegally taken on public transportation to NYC.

The SCOTUS has already determined that pistols cannot be banned outright. If you think you are going to get some sort of gun control passed in Georgia, well, good luck.

We have the most individualistic culture on earth and our laws reflect that.

Felons are allowed to buy guns in Georgia?

75 Varek Raith  Dec 21, 2014 2:10:03pm

re: #70 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Yeah, except Jones is crazy about Islam.
Harris is just wrong about Islam in general.

76 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:11:37pm

re: #74 Backwoods_Sleuth

Felons are allowed to buy guns in Georgia?

The gun was legally bought and owned initially. How the murderer came into possession of it is anyone’s guess.

Stolen? Sold to a straw buyer? Sold directly to the criminal?

So we already have two possible federal felonies (including transporting on a public interstate vehicle) and God knows how many various state charges in every state between Georgia and NY involving possession and transportation by a felon.

I just see no way to turn this sort of thing completely off without a major societal shift in violence or a constitutional amendment process which would likely break the country about as thoroughly as we saw in 1861.

77 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:14:04pm

re: #71 ObserverArt

“The NYPD said Brinsley’s last known address was in Georgia, but that he had not been to the residence in nearly two years and was estranged from his sister who lived there. He has no prior arrests in New York City, despite family ties to the city, police said.

“Brinsley’s past criminal record in Georgia, beginning in 2004, ranges from simple battery to trespassing to carrying a concealed weapon in 2007.
Cobb County court records show Brinsley was also charged July 2011 with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon as well as discharging a firearm, along with a myriad of other charges.”

newyork.cbslocal.com

78 goddamnedfrank  Dec 21, 2014 2:14:41pm

re: #74 Backwoods_Sleuth

Felons are allowed to buy guns in Georgia?

They have no law requiring a lost or stolen gun to be reported. So either that’s what happened, or the guy got it through a private party transfer, which aren’t reported there either.

This is how the NRA facilitates felons acquiring firearms.

80 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:16:30pm

re: #77 Justanotherhuman

“The NYPD said Brinsley’s last known address was in Georgia, but that he had not been to the residence in nearly two years and was estranged from his sister who lived there. He has no prior arrests in New York City, despite family ties to the city, police said.

“Brinsley’s past criminal record in Georgia, beginning in 2004, ranges from simple battery to trespassing to carrying a concealed weapon in 2007.
Cobb County court records show Brinsley was also charged July 2011 with possession of a firearm by a convicted felon as well as discharging a firearm, along with a myriad of other charges.”

newyork.cbslocal.com

Great guy.

Now, every peaceful protester and person of color who marches is going to get tarred as a violent thug cop killer in waiting…because cop lives matter more than yours…

81 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:17:30pm

re: #76 Aunty Entity Dragon

I just have this practical question for those who would end the 2nd Amendment. Don’t you really mean just guns?

One other thing just for conversation-If we do effectively reduce the guns to some irreducible fraction of our current excess, what will we allow? Gonna leave all those can’t carry anything for defense laws in place too? Honest questions here.

82 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:18:59pm

There are between 270 and 310 million guns in the US, according to estimates. Only 37% of those in the US admit to owning a gun. So, there could be vastly more than the estimates.

pewresearch.org

“Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February [2013] found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.” More

83 blueraven  Dec 21, 2014 2:20:35pm

re: #81 Rightwingconspirator

I just have this practical question for those who would end the 2nd Amendment. Don’t you really mean just guns?

One other thing just for conversation-If we do effectively reduce the guns to some irreducible fraction of our current excess, what will we allow? Gonna leave all those can’t carry anything for defense laws in place too? Honest questions here.

Seriously, most people just want to close loopholes and require background checks. Is that too fucking much to ask?

84 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:21:18pm

re: #82 Justanotherhuman

One factor-Collector/hoarders of guns. And I’m starting to wonder if some of the ownership decline in surveys is just owner paranoia or an unwillingness to admit having the gun(s)

85 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:23:20pm

re: #83 blueraven

Seriously, most people just want to close loopholes and require background checks. Is that too fucking much to ask?

Umm no, you may have missed me posting in support of universal registration. So please do take that into the context of my questions.

86 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:26:04pm

re: #81 Rightwingconspirator

I just have this practical question for those who would end the 2nd Amendment. Don’t you really mean just guns?

One other thing just for conversation-If we do effectively reduce the guns to some irreducible fraction of our current excess, what will we allow? Gonna leave all those can’t carry anything for defense laws in place too? Honest questions here.

The constitutional means of getting rid of the 2nd amendment (or most any other part of the bill of rights outsde the 3rd and 4th…which has been gutted already) would be dire enough to start another civil war in my view. I just don’t see the government surviving that kind of thing. Our polity has not been that fractured or combative since the last civil war.

There is no guarentee that America as we know it will survive this century…and I don’t think it woud survive a constitutional amendment process or convention as described in order to get rid of the 2nd amendment, no matter how archaic the language seems today.

87 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:26:29pm

re: #84 Rightwingconspirator

One factor-Collector/hoarders of guns. And I’m starting to wonder if some of the ownership decline in surveys is just owner paranoia or an unwillingness to admit having the gun(s)

I dunno. But to me, if a person owns a gun(s), every one should be legally registered, when required. That’s pretty hard to enforce, though, when you basically have an underground network of stolen guns, guns sold without permits, straw buyers, etc, and people just willing to sell guns to anyone who has the money.

88 stpaulbear  Dec 21, 2014 2:27:03pm

re: #81 Rightwingconspirator

Hows about making it legally difficult to own a gun that can pump out a shitload of bullets in a very brief time? What are they for other than either mowing down the largest number of targets possible or for giving it’s owner a woodie?

89 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:27:08pm

re: #83 blueraven

Seriously, most people just want to close loopholes and require background checks. Is that too fucking much to ask?

The background checks should be a proverbial “no brainer”.

I will not sell my weapons to anybody just out of the blue. Why would you want to?

90 The Vicious Babushka  Dec 21, 2014 2:27:11pm
91 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:28:12pm

re: #86 Aunty Entity Dragon

I think that attempted amending is just not going to happen and we best face the kinds of measures that do work well instead. I just don’t see armed revolution coming.

92 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:28:41pm

re: #84 Rightwingconspirator

One factor-Collector/hoarders of guns. And I’m starting to wonder if some of the ownership decline in surveys is just owner paranoia or an unwillingness to admit having the gun(s)

If I tell the govt I have a gun, they’ll come and take it! ///

93 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 2:28:45pm

re: #81 Rightwingconspirator

Common-sense control measures is not the same as ending the 2nd amdt.
Notably, the 1st amdt. is also not absolute.

94 bratwurst  Dec 21, 2014 2:28:57pm

Classy!

95 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 2:30:29pm

re: #94 bratwurst

Classy!

[Embedded content]

typical but don’t call them bigots. //

96 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 2:31:18pm

re: #94 bratwurst

Writer for @WashTimes, Blogger, Novelist, #TCOT #TeaParty #UniteRight

97 blueraven  Dec 21, 2014 2:32:05pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

Umm no, you may have missed me posting in support of universal registration. So please do take that into the context of my questions.

Well that is great and I mean it sincerely…but we cant get that passed now can we?

98 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 2:32:07pm

re: #96 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Prominent TP spokesman, I remember him since he has fugly muttonchops.

99 #FergusonFireside  Dec 21, 2014 2:32:34pm

re: #90 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Kosher Soul is in Israel right now, I believe.

100 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:34:00pm

In another tragedy…

Cairns murders: Home where 8 children died likely to be demolished, local MP says

The home where eight children were murdered in Cairns in far north Queensland is likely to be demolished and a permanent public memorial may be built on the site, a local MP says.

abc.net.au

101 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 2:34:53pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

Umm no, you may have missed me posting in support of universal registration. So please do take that into the context of my questions.

One of the problems I see here in Kentucky (in my part, anyway) is the open sales of guns at flea markets and even on street corners, none of which have background checks involved.
One person I know is a former LEO and his wife tried to sell MrBWS a gun from the trunk of her car in the alley next to her regular business a few years ago. They are “pillars of the community” here.
Selling guns on the sly isn’t their only source of shady income.
I could say even more that would curl your toes…

102 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:35:13pm

re: #87 Justanotherhuman

I dunno. But to me, if a person owns a gun(s), every one should be legally registered, when required. That’s pretty hard to enforce, though, when you basically have an underground network of stolen guns, guns sold without permits, straw buyers, etc, and people just willing to sell guns to anyone who has the money.

You are never going to get a lot of compliance on that because registration lists have been used in the past (in NY particularly) to confiscate previously legal weapons, and the NRA has hammered registration=confiscation for decades.

It didn’t help that up until the late 90’s, some folks on the democratic side were happy to confirm those suspicions.

How about registering owners just like registering voters? You do not have to reveal what or how many guns you own, but you do have to affirm you store weapons safely (under penalty of law), take safety and handling course every 5 years…and this sort of thing is more in keeping with early American milita responsibility traditions.

103 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:35:33pm

re: #88 stpaulbear

Hows about making it legally difficult to own a gun that can pump out a shitload of bullets in a very brief time? What are they for other than either mowing down the largest number of targets possible or for giving it’s owner a woodie?

California did that with some success. More sensibly than some, we have a magazine capacity limit of 10, a number that actually matched available magazines to purchase to replace old high capacity ones. For semi auto rifles you need a tool to change the ten round magazines. Not a problem to me.

104 Dr Lizardo  Dec 21, 2014 2:39:06pm

re: #100 Justanotherhuman

In another tragedy…

Cairns murders: Home where 8 children died likely to be demolished, local MP says

The home where eight children were murdered in Cairns in far north Queensland is likely to be demolished and a permanent public memorial may be built on the site, a local MP says.

abc.net.au

That doesn’t surprise me; the house where John Bunting (Australia’s worst serial killer) lived - and where he buried two of his victims - was also demolished. This is in relation to the Snowtown Murders, a.k.a., The Bodies-In-Barrels Murders, the worst serial killing incident in Australian history, with 12 victims.

105 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:39:43pm

re: #93 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Common-sense control measures is not the same as ending the 2nd amdt.
Notably, the 1st amdt. is also not absolute.

Did i give that impression? If so my mistake. I’m in favor of a series of changes. Universal registration, b/g checks for all, capacity limits for most. Like I said i already live with all that via state law. Other states should follow a good example.

Now the 1st is not absolute, but take a long hard look at some ACLU wins and you might conclude guns are already far more regulated that speech. Semi humorous there, apples vs bananas there.

106 Higgs Boson's Mate  Dec 21, 2014 2:40:29pm

re: #86 Aunty Entity Dragon

The constitutional means of getting rid of the 2nd amendment (or most any other part of the bill of rights outsde the 3rd and 4th…which has been gutted already) would be dire enough to start another civil war in my view. I just don’t see the government surviving that kind of thing. Our polity has not been that fractured or combative since the last civil war.

There is no guarentee that America as we know it will survive this century…and I don’t think it woud survive a constitutional amendment process or convention as described in order to get rid of the 2nd amendment, no matter how archaic the language seems today.

The 2nd amendment is fine just as it is. The courts just need to stop ignoring the first four words of it.

107 The Vicious Babushka  Dec 21, 2014 2:40:35pm

re: #99 #FergusonFireside

Kosher Soul is in Israel right now, I believe.

Nice

108 Justanotherhuman  Dec 21, 2014 2:41:26pm

re: #94 bratwurst

Classy!

[Embedded content]

Isn’t Phillips the guy that was ripping off the Tea Party for profit a few years back?

nytimes.com

“Sherry Phillips, who founded and runs Tea Party Nation with her husband, Judson, said Monday that it is not a nonprofit group.

“Ms. Phillips said the American Liberty Alliance was “a for-profit company that takes donations.” The National Precinct Alliance, she said, demanded compensation of around $3,000. “Our budget on this convention is very tight and we could not afford them,” she wrote in an e-mail message.” More

They paid Palin $100K for being there…

109 The Vicious Babushka  Dec 21, 2014 2:42:05pm

HEY DUMBASS, it’s not #Liberal #Progressive #Communist Obama who are blindly supporting police shooting random people for no reason.

110 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 2:42:52pm

re: #109 The Vicious Babushka

HEY DUMBASS, it’s not #Liberal #Progressive #Communist Obama who are blindly supporting police shooting random people for no reason.

[Embedded content]

Fucking hypocritical morons.

111 William Barnett-Lewis  Dec 21, 2014 2:43:50pm

re: #106 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The 2nd amendment is fine just as it is. The courts just need to stop ignoring the first four words of it.

They haven’t. The problem is that the founders considered all citizens (at that time white males, expanded since) to be members of the Militia and the Militia Acts of 1792 REQUIRED every militia member to own a military spec firearm. From small acorns …

112 Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 21, 2014 2:43:55pm

re: #109 The Vicious Babushka

HEY DUMBASS, it’s not #Liberal #Progressive #Communist Obama who are blindly supporting police shooting random people for no reason.

[Embedded content]

Those are the same people that say they need all those guns because they can’t rely on the police, correct?

113 The Vicious Babushka  Dec 21, 2014 2:44:44pm

HURR HURR IF U CALLS ME TEH RACIST U R TEH RACIST!!!!!1!!!!!!
IT’S TEH RACISM TO CALLS SOMEBODY A RACIST!!!!!1 DEMOCRATS STASRTED TEH KKK!!!!!! HURR HURR

114 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Dec 21, 2014 2:47:07pm

re: #105 Rightwingconspirator

Now the 1st is not absolute, but take a long hard look at some ACLU wins and you might conclude guns are already far more regulated that speech. Semi humorous there, apples vs bananas there.

The point in comparing the amdts. is that in both cases no “exceptions” are provided, the language is “absolute”, but in practice there are numerous exceptions to the 1st amdt. that are considered commonsensical by most (state secrets, certain kinds of sexually explicit materials, obscenity, libel, certain kinds of incitement are said “not to fall” under it). Which means that the “absolute” reading of the 2nd. amdt. is unfounded, and what exceptions there should be can be decided separately.
The point is not to compare what is more or less regulated.

115 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:47:19pm

re: #97 blueraven

Well that is great and I mean it sincerely…but we cant get that passed now can we?

Now? no. Feds? Not soon. State by state? Work in progress. As a guy that really enjoys the sport, I want those changes to happen to take some of the reflected guilt off my sport. And self defense advocacy. Some of us with guns are asking for that kind of change. Most of us by far don’t send membership dues to NRA. I dunno how many of us are Democrats or progressive I know we have at least one card carrying member of the liberal gun club as a lizard.

116 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 2:48:44pm

re: #114 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Yes, that’s how so many gun laws across the country easily survived extensive legal attacks.

117 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 2:49:34pm

Pretty funny how conservatives cry about liberals calling them racist yet they want to equate liberals with the KKK and Nazis. Go piss pu a rope you reactionary pieces of shit.

118 Aunty Entity Dragon  Dec 21, 2014 2:50:03pm

re: #106 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The 2nd amendment is fine just as it is. The courts just need to stop ignoring the first four words of it.

In some ways, that gets back to policing and the poisonous state of law enforcement.

The militia was the arm of the sheriff for LE until midway through the 19th century in many places.

I have no problem with reconstituting the traditional militia for some LE purposes as determined by state authorities in additon to appropriate training. It might go some way to getting rid of the unwholesome ‘us vs them’ thin blue line bullshit, and it would restore the notion that firearms ownership confers social responsibility as was understood in 1775-1783.

119 HappyWarrior  Dec 21, 2014 2:50:44pm

The problem Re: gun legislation is anytime you attempt to start a conversation about reasonable policy on said issue, you get accused by the powerful types with powerful allies of being a “gun grabber.” So yeah a lot sounds good but something has to give with these groups.

120 William Barnett-Lewis  Dec 21, 2014 2:56:45pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

The NRA has approximately four million members. There are probably around 100 million gun owners out of a population of 400 million. The NRA has influence all out of proportion to their numbers because those are the “true believers” that would make Eric Hoffer shake his head

Meanwhile, yes, there are lots of liberals & democrats who own guns for various reasons. Some of use even have CC permits. But getting us to agree on anything is rather like wrangling cats.

Everyone who is not a troll is welcome: theliberalgunclub.com

121 Rightwingconspirator  Dec 21, 2014 3:36:19pm

re: #120 William Barnett-Lewis

Yeah after the holiday crunch i will be joining.

122 Odie Hugh Manatee  Dec 21, 2014 4:02:02pm

re: #12 Kragar

I believe its past time to clean house in the NYPD

Ask Frank Serpico how that turned out for him. Corrupt cops will keep any house cleaning from happening.

No cop wants to be the next Serpico, thus their silence.

123 unproven innocence  Dec 21, 2014 4:18:09pm

re: #122 Odie Hugh Manatee

Ask Frank Serpico how that turned out for him. Corrupt cops will keep any house cleaning from happening.

No cop wants to be the next Serpico, thus their silence.

I went looking. Frank Serpico

The Police Are Still Out of Control

I should know.

By FRANK SERPICO
October 23, 2014

124 BeenHereAwhile  Dec 21, 2014 4:26:20pm

re: #51 Kragar

I only have 140 characters

Just imagine what Dr. Corbett H. Thigpen could have written about you.

//

125 Cassidy  Dec 21, 2014 5:03:15pm

If the NYPD’s only takeaway from all this is that people exercising their right to assembly and protest makes them the enemy then this will get ugly.

126 Odie Hugh Manatee  Dec 21, 2014 5:29:05pm

re: #123 unproven innocence

Thanks for that, I had missed it.

We have a police problem and it’s getting out of control. The statements from NY show that the “Us vs. Them” attitude has always been there. The only difference is that now they feel safe in stating it loud and clear now. What really gets me is that the NY cops are freaking out on their own citizenry and it was someone from Baltimore who did this.

That’s like Japan blowing up Peal Harbor and the United States responding by declaring war on the United States.

127 FortyDeuce  Dec 22, 2014 5:50:23am

It’s funny, I didn’t hear this kind of rhetoric when Jared and Amanda Miller, two white right-wing extremists killed two cops and a civilian in Las Vegas. They wanted to start a revolution. It’s funny how no one on the right called out those in the media, or the politicians, who fueled their thinking.


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