Alex Jones Says Rand Paul Is Lying About Moderating His Extreme Positions

Not difficult to believe at all
Wingnuts • Views: 33,973

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Sen. Rand Paul has been a frequent guest on the absolutely insane Alex Jones conspiracy show (and it continually amazes me that he apparently suffers no political consequences for it), and Jones is reciprocating by telling his viewers that Paul is just playing politics and lying about his so-called “moderation.”

And oddly enough, I agree with Alex Jones on this.

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303 comments
1 Kragar  Jan 28, 2015 1:57:52pm

Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

2 makeitstop  Jan 28, 2015 1:59:02pm

Blind pig, truffle, etc.

3 Kragar  Jan 28, 2015 1:59:55pm

“Even shit can catch a sunbeam now and then.”

4 makeitstop  Jan 28, 2015 2:00:14pm

Also, note that Jones thinks that Aqua Buddha not moderating his crazy-ass beliefs is a good thing.

5 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 2:02:56pm

Doesn’t saying it defeat the purpose though?

6 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 28, 2015 2:03:07pm

1. Senator Rand Paul has never been a guest on the Alex Jones Show
2. OK, yes Paul has occasionally been on the show.
3. Yeah, Paul is a regular on the show but Alex Jones is a mainstream conservative
4. Yeah Paul is a regular and Alex Jones is a little nutty but REVERAND JEREMIAH WRIGHT!!!!!!11

////

7 DobermanBoston  Jan 28, 2015 2:04:37pm

In a way, Rand strikes me as a bizarro Red Diaper Baby.

Can you imagine being a kid and having dinner at the Ron Paul homestead every night, with likely guests including members of the Rushdoony family and random Holocaust deniers?

8 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:05:55pm
9 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Jan 28, 2015 2:06:21pm

back in college I used to tune into some wacky AM station way out in the boonies late at night to hear the flying saucer /global conspiracy crowd call in. I thought it was hilarious.

Now, it’s not funny anymore. They are now exerting real political power and turning this bad craziness, once restricted to wacko rural radio rantings, into actual government and foreign policy. I don’t sense a good time for America’s future if this insanity continues to grow.

10 Patricia Kayden  Jan 28, 2015 2:09:16pm

And Alex thinks he’s helping Rand Paul by stating this?

11 nines09  Jan 28, 2015 2:09:21pm

This must finally be that rebranding they spoke about. Yes. That must be it. They are caring, considerate heartless bastards now. Yes. Must be.

12 bratwurst  Jan 28, 2015 2:10:25pm

re: #8 klystron

I like how the same people who don’t understand how a movie by a divisive director about a divisive man in a divisive war is controversial are UP IN ARMS about all female leads in a Ghostbusters reboot.

13 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:11:13pm

re: #12 bratwurst

I like how the same people who don’t understand how a movie by a divisive director about a divisive man in a divisive war is controversial are UP IN ARMS about all female leads in a Ghostbusters reboot.

Because ladyparts.

14 makeitstop  Jan 28, 2015 2:16:03pm

re: #10 Patricia Kayden

And Alex thinks he’s helping Rand Paul by stating this?

Keeping the crazies in the fold. This way, if AB starts sounding like a moderate, the crazies will giggle to themselves and vote for him anyway.

15 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 2:16:14pm

re: #12 bratwurst

I like how the same people who don’t understand how a movie by a divisive director about a divisive man in a divisive war is controversial are UP IN ARMS about all female leads in a Ghostbusters reboot.

What amazes me is that there are two SNL regulars whose names I’ve never even heard. I stuck with them through thick and thin (and some of the thin was pretty damned thin) for a very long time, but they eventually lost me around the turn of the century. Just aged completely out of their demo, I guess.

Now I feel really old—and I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS!

16 DobermanBoston  Jan 28, 2015 2:18:55pm

re: #10 Patricia Kayden

And Alex thinks he’s helping Rand Paul by stating this?

In the way that David Duke “helped” Scalise’s critics, anyway.

17 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 2:19:11pm

5.7 off the coast of Northern California near Humboldt.

18 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:19:35pm

re: #12 bratwurst

I like how the same people who don’t understand how a movie by a divisive director about a divisive man in a divisive war is controversial are UP IN ARMS about all female leads in a Ghostbusters reboot.

Well I have no desire to see either film. No offense, but as far as I’m concerned, the Ghostbusters film franchise died with Harold Ramis.

19 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 2:19:44pm

re: #17 darthstar

5.7 off the coast of Northern California near Humboldt.

20 ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2015 2:20:29pm

2 wackos go into a bar…

21 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 2:20:57pm
22 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Jan 28, 2015 2:21:27pm

re: #12 bratwurst

re: #8 klystron

This is only somewhat related to the ladyparts Ghostbusters, but a lot of the same people on Twitter are on the gamergate tip, so this is somewhat amusing, and also somewhat to be expected:
Here’s what Anita Sarkeesian’s harassers do with the rest of their Twitter time

As it turns out, some of the most direct threats come from throwaway accounts, or ones that have been suspended. But some of them are extant, long-running feeds from people who… well, it’s hard to say that they have regular lives, or passions, because their timelines are mostly just racist or homophobic jokes and insults. But if you trawl deep enough, little pieces of normality peek out. And it makes everything all the more frustrating.

23 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 2:21:36pm

Expect damage pics to come from the usual places - water pipe shops.

24 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:21:42pm

So I had these big plans to be productive today.

25 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:22:16pm

re: #24 klystron

So I had these big plans to be productive today.

We all have delusions from time to time.

/

26 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:25:14pm

*Pounds on thread’s chest* LIVE, DAMN YOU! LIVE!!!

27 The Mountain That Blogs  Jan 28, 2015 2:25:32pm

Any excuse to post this clip, really

28 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jan 28, 2015 2:26:27pm

re: #15 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Now I feel really old—and I HATE WHEN THAT HAPPENS!

How old would you be if you had no way of knowing your age?

29 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:27:24pm

re: #25 Targetpractice

We all have delusions from time to time.

/

I might still end up being productive. Hopefully he is sleeping and I should not sit here poking at the IM client thinking that will magically make the wifi work in the new ward.

It would be $2k to fly to Heathrow tonight. Also I would need to be packed and leave the house in about an hour. That is probably not worth it.

…probably.

30 Eventual Carrion  Jan 28, 2015 2:27:35pm

re: #28 Higgs Boson’s Mate

How old would you be if you had no way of knowing your age?

Immortal.

31 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:28:54pm

In other news it appears that emergency medical treatment in the UK is free, although hospital admissions are not. But from what I have read about their pricing, we can survive paying for one night in the hospital assuming we don’t have some insurance somewhere that does cover it.

How remarkably civilized.

32 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:29:52pm

re: #31 klystron

In other news it appears that emergency medical treatment in the UK is free, although hospital admissions are not. But from what I have read about their pricing, we can survive paying for one night in the hospital assuming we don’t have some insurance somewhere that does cover it.

How remarkably civilized.

Amazing what can happen when a government cares more about the people it governs than the businesses that stand to make a pound off the working class.

33 The Mountain That Blogs  Jan 28, 2015 2:30:44pm

re: #31 klystron

for what it’s worth, spinal taps are pretty safe. The worst thing that typically happens is a nasty headache.

34 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:31:08pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Amazing what can happen when a government cares more about the people it governs than the businesses that stand to make a pound off the working class.

Current test count: god knows how much bloodwork, chest x-rays, a CT scan, and a lumbar puncture.

In the US we’d be talking what, $20,000? $30,000?

Or am I not thinking high enough?

35 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:31:26pm

re: #33 The Mountain That Blogs

for what it’s worth, spinal taps are pretty safe. The worst thing that typically happens is a nasty headache.

It’s ironic, because it’s a nasty headache that started this whole mess.

36 Timothy Watson  Jan 28, 2015 2:31:57pm

re: #31 klystron

In other news it appears that emergency medical treatment in the UK is free, although hospital admissions are not. But from what I have read about their pricing, we can survive paying for one night in the hospital assuming we don’t have some insurance somewhere that does cover it.

How remarkably civilized.

Would travel insurance cover that type of thing?

37 #FergusonFireside  Jan 28, 2015 2:32:08pm

re: #23 darthstar

Expect damage pics to come from the usual places - water pipe shops.

haha. did you feel it?

38 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:32:15pm

re: #33 The Mountain That Blogs

for what it’s worth, spinal taps are pretty safe. The worst thing that typically happens is a nasty headache.

Unless they take it up to 11.

/

39 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:33:01pm

re: #33 The Mountain That Blogs

for what it’s worth, spinal taps are pretty safe. The worst thing that typically happens is a nasty headache.

But thank you. That fits with the reading I did, but it is always nice to be reassured by someone who knows of what they speak.

Especially since I am a third of the globe away from him and therefore flailing at everything out of helpless frustration.

40 Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2015 2:33:59pm

re: #34 klystron

Current test count: god knows how much bloodwork, chest x-rays, a CT scan, and a lumbar puncture.

In the US we’d be talking what, $20,000? $30,000?

Or am I not thinking high enough?

Sounds about right. I remember going to the ER a few years back for bad shoulder pain that I thought might be the prelude to a heart attack. Long story short, I was admitted at roughly 6pm, left close to midnight with a bill for close to $2,000. And all they’d done is an X-ray and an EKG.

41 iossarian  Jan 28, 2015 2:34:34pm

re: #34 klystron

Current test count: god knows how much bloodwork, chest x-rays, a CT scan, and a lumbar puncture.

In the US we’d be talking what, $20,000? $30,000?

Or am I not thinking high enough?

You don’t want to know. A relative of mine had to be hospitalized in the US in a similar vein. Luckily they had hard-core travel insurance, but they did get a glimpse of the bill. Even though it was all covered, it nearly caused re-hospitalization.

42 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:34:53pm

re: #36 Timothy Watson

Would travel insurance cover that type of thing?

Possibly, but we didn’t get any because this was a work trip.

I need to dig through the fine print of our health insurance and also check the credit card used to pay for the trip, etc., since I know those sometimes cover some amount.

43 ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2015 2:35:06pm

Did, or will the CA earthquake today cause any type of tsunami wave activity?

44 iossarian  Jan 28, 2015 2:36:26pm

re: #42 klystron

Possibly, but we didn’t get any because this was a work trip.

I need to dig through the fine print of our health insurance and also check the credit card used to pay for the trip, etc., since I know those sometimes cover some amount.

Fingers crossed that the UK fee structure is based on reality. It probably helps that they’re not using people who can pay to offset the costs of treating people who can’t.

45 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:36:49pm

re: #43 ObserverArt

Did, or will the CA earthquake today cause any type of tsunami wave activity?

That small would be localized, if any.* Not seeing anything from the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center though.

* Unless it sets off a submarine landslide which can have very different issues, but is much harder to predict/detect. I don’t know what the likelihood of that is consider to be in that region.

46 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:37:38pm

re: #44 iossarian

Fingers crossed that the UK fee structure is based on reality. It probably helps that they’re not using people who can pay to offset the costs of treating people who can’t.

I read an article in the Washington Post from a year or two back about someone who fell off a horse and broke their pelvis and the total bill for 5 days in the hospital was $5k.

At those prices even if we have to absorb one night we can handle that.

47 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 2:38:06pm

Evening Lizardim from the wild north country. How go things among the lizardfolk? Any more incredible derangement, trolls in the dungeon, etc.?

48 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 2:39:03pm

re: #39 klystron

But thank you. That fits with the reading I did, but it is always nice to be reassured by someone who knows of what they speak.

Especially since I am a third of the globe away from him and therefore flailing at everything out of helpless frustration.

I know it’s nearly impossible to be calm at a time like this, but take a deep breath and remind yourself that, like it or not, whatever is happening with him at the moment is completely out of your control. He’s in competent hands and they’re going to take the best care of him that they possibly can.

49 Dr. Matt  Jan 28, 2015 2:43:52pm

We need a special tag/font/color for Alex Jones-like rants:

[Alex Jones] The earthquake is a false flag & part of the Obama New World ORDER!!!!!! [/Alex Jones]

50 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 2:43:54pm

re: #46 klystron

I read an article in the Washington Post from a year or two back about someone who fell off a horse and broke their pelvis and the total bill for 5 days in the hospital was $5k.

At those prices even if we have to absorb one night we can handle that.

{{{klys}}}

What happened?

51 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:45:00pm

re: #50 thedopefishlives

{{{klys}}}

What happened?

mr. klys is in the hospital over in London over what is likely just sinus congestion + airplane descent. Hopefully.

52 Romantic Heretic  Jan 28, 2015 2:46:14pm

re: #34 klystron

Current test count: god knows how much bloodwork, chest x-rays, a CT scan, and a lumbar puncture.

In the US we’d be talking what, $20,000? $30,000?

Or am I not thinking high enough?

Reposted from downstairs.

My wife was visiting recently and we had to go to the emergency room because of really severe chest pains. Since she’s still an American citizen she wasn’t covered under Ontario’s health insurance. (OHIP)

The bill for everything was less than $900.

53 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 2:46:31pm

LOL. For some stupid reason I forgot that you actually need midtones for color blend mode to do a damned thing. That was dumb.

54 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 2:47:23pm

re: #51 klystron

mr. klys is in the hospital over in London over what is likely just sinus congestion + airplane descent. Hopefully.

I’m sorry to hear that. If it’s a work trip, could it be classed under one of the various work insurance packages?

55 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:48:36pm

re: #52 Romantic Heretic

Reposted from downstairs.

My wife was visiting recently and we had to go to the emergency room because of really severe chest pains. Since she’s still an American citizen she wasn’t covered under Ontario’s health insurance. (OHIP)

The bill for everything was less than $900.

When I had my appendix out the bill for the anesthesiologist alone was $20k. That was 6 years ago. I don’t know what the overall total was but we were probably talking in the $50k+ range for 2 days in the hospital and the surgery.

Election returns are much better watched on serious painkillers, even though the Dems did pick up a lot of seats that year.

56 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:50:10pm

re: #54 thedopefishlives

I’m sorry to hear that. If it’s a work trip, could it be classed under one of the various work insurance packages?

I’m hoping. I figure the amount of effort that will get spent sorting this all out will be proportional to the amount it costs us. I told him to stop worrying about it, that I would deal.

He’s been very favorably impressed with the service so far though.

57 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 2:51:37pm

Random thought: I wish both teams could lose the Superbowl.

58 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 2:52:56pm

All the prices you folks are citing are just monstrous.

59 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 2:53:04pm

re: #34 klystron

Current test count: god knows how much bloodwork, chest x-rays, a CT scan, and a lumbar puncture.

In the US we’d be talking what, $20,000? $30,000?

Or am I not thinking high enough?

You’d be talking around $10,000 just for the ER and the bed for the first night. Treatment costs extra, a lot extra.

60 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 2:53:34pm

re: #57 Eclectic Cyborg

Random thought: I wish both teams could lose the Superbowl.

If anyone could pull off winning-while-somehow-losing, it’s the Seahawks.

61 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 2:53:49pm

re: #59 Skip Intro

You’d be talking around $10,000 just for the ER and the bed for the first night. Treatment costs extra, a lot extra.

And don’t forget a few thousand here and there for the inevitably out of network “Consulting” physicians.

62 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:53:59pm

re: #57 Eclectic Cyborg

Random thought: I wish both teams could lose the Superbowl.

Meteor.

63 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 2:54:17pm

I’m not a huge Seahawks fan but I REALLY can’t stand the Patriots.

64 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 2:54:43pm

re: #58 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

All the prices you folks are citing are just monstrous.

MURICA!

Have some cow art to feel better.

(Because this is what I am doing with my day, convinced that sitting at my computer will magically make him show up online. Not really. But.)

65 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 2:55:22pm

*giggle snort*

Colorado state senator Kevin Lundberg, a Republican, has some science to drop on you ladies who are thinking about using an IUD for birth control. Lundberg, who opposes a bill that would provide IUDs for Medicaid patients, says the devices stop “a small child from implanting.”

Lundberg is 100 percent correct. If a small child attempts to crawl into your vagina and attach itself to your uterus, an IUD is likely to confuse him, slowing or even stopping his progress. Frankly, that’s an additional benefit that most IUDs should add to their marketing materials.

66 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 2:56:45pm

re: #61 Eclectic Cyborg

And don’t forget a few thousand here and there for the inevitably out of network “Consulting” physicians.

And the 1000% markups on things like aspirin, hospital “gowns”, and disposable socks.

67 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 2:57:39pm

re: #66 Skip Intro

And the 1000% markups on things like aspirin, hospital “gowns”, and disposable socks.

I’ll never forget the time my wife went to an ER and they charged her $227 for two Aspirin.

Unreal.

68 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 2:58:49pm

re: #63 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m not a huge Seahawks fan but I REALLY can’t stand the Patriots.

I don’t know why the “Minnesota” Vikings didn’t bother me, but when the Boston Patriots became the “New England” Patriots, that got really annoying.

How about the “Pacific Northwest” Seahawks? The “North America” Bears? The “Milky Way Galaxy” Cowboys? Where does it stop?

69 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 2:58:50pm

re: #58 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

All the prices you folks are citing are just monstrous.

It’s a racket. My 13-day stay due to the aneurysm totaled just shy of half a million dollars. It’s insane. No normal person could afford that—they’d be ruined. Luckily, my deductible was only $1000.

70 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 2:59:31pm

re: #37 #FergusonFireside

haha. did you feel it?

Nope…we don’t even stop working for a 5.7.

71 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 3:00:18pm

re: #67 Eclectic Cyborg

I’ll never forget the time my wife went to an ER and they charged her $227 for two Aspirin.

Unreal.

I’m still working out how a large, non-profit medical group here can report a profit of a couple of hundred million.

72 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:00:32pm

73 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:02:28pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

It’s a racket. My 13-day stay due to the aneurysm totaled just shy of half a million dollars. It’s insane. No normal person could afford that—they’d be ruined. Luckily, my deductible was only $1000.

I never quite understood how medical insurance and medical care providers managed to collude on that particular bit of brilliance. I’m pretty sure, in any other industry, that would be about 20 different shades of illegal.

74 Kid A  Jan 28, 2015 3:02:41pm

Boner on Fixed: “The Keystone pipeline will create 42,000 jobs.”

I watch it so you don’t have to.

75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 3:03:03pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

It’s when I see these unbelievable, absolutely unimaginable prices, it strikes me how much you needed (and still need) the healthcare reform.

76 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:03:08pm

It’s comforting knowing that there are still places where I can get gas for over $3.50 a gallon. And Diesel for over $4.50!

californiagasprices.com

77 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:03:27pm

re: #76 darthstar

It’s comforting knowing that there are still places where I can get gas for over $3.50 a gallon. And Diesel for over $4.50!

californiagasprices.com

Let me guess, Furnace Creek.

78 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:03:33pm

I only buy expensive gas because it makes my car run better.

79 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:04:36pm

re: #75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s when I see these unbelievable, absolutely unimaginable prices, it strikes me how much you needed (and still need) the healthcare reform.

It’s obscene, and that people still try to stand in the way of it is obscene.

Especially when you hear all about it from seniors on Medicare. Like my in-laws.

80 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:04:51pm

GOT METH?

81 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:05:01pm

re: #67 Eclectic Cyborg

I’ll never forget the time my wife went to an ER and they charged her $227 for two Aspirin.

Unreal.

Real. But just like the Air Force 600 dollar hammers, you’re just seeing a Weird Amazing Accounting Trick. In both cases, running a hospital and delivering a weapons project, the cost of any component is computed backwards from the total cost, plus handsome profit, of presenting a final system. Neither is an example of a market, because health and security are valued on more absolute principles.

82 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:05:13pm

re: #78 darthstar

I only buy expensive gas because it makes my car run better.

91 octane gas will make a difference… If you’re running an engine with a 15:1 compression ratio. For a typically tuned mass-production car, it’s throwing good money after bad.

83 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:07:48pm

re: #82 thedopefishlives

91 octane gas will make a difference… If you’re running an engine with a 15:1 compression ratio. For a typically tuned mass-production car, it’s throwing good money after bad.

91 octane is midgrade in the UK, they go 89, 91, 93 if I recall. Here it’s 87, 89, 91.

I almost always put midgrade or premium in our cars. Never regular. Except the new diesel X5 - that just gets diesel. BTW, we had to refill the ‘diesel exhaust fluid’ - what the fuck is up with that? Get a warning that says “This car will not start in 986 miles unless you replace the diesel exhaust fluid.”

84 dholmes32  Jan 28, 2015 3:08:12pm

Resurrecting from the previous thread:

Why yes, I do curse at work. And last I checked, I’m quite female.

Hucksterbee can just get stuffed.

85 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:09:17pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

I was talking to one of the medical imaging places a couple of years ago—I forget which procedure we were discussing—something like a mammogram or CT scan, or maybe an ultrasound… anyway, the walk in off the street “list” price was like $800, but they only bill the insurance like… IIRC, somewhere around $90-$95. My deductible for imaging at the time was something like $100-$200 per year. Like I said, it’s racket.

86 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2015 3:09:26pm

Gas prices are going up again.

87 makeitstop  Jan 28, 2015 3:11:07pm

New post at Stonekettle - The Boogeyman is going to get you

If the President does or does not chose to meet with a foreign leader to discuss mutual interests, it should be for good reasons. Real ones. Ones that can be articulated to the nation who elected that president and backed up with policy and precedent. This is how our founders intended America to work, they designed a government based on reason and intellect. Nowhere in our founding documents, nowhere in the Constitution, nowhere in law or precedent does it say our foreign policy should be based on Displeased Sky God Makes Angry Boom Boom!

These people keep attempting to insert their idiotic beliefs into my government and every single time they open their mouth it makes me just that much more determined to stop them.

When I wonder about this country’s future, it’s not some imaginary lightning throwing boogeyman in the sky I worry about.

It’s congressmen like Louie Gohmert.

88 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:11:12pm

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I never quite understood how medical insurance and medical care providers managed to collude on that particular bit of brilliance. I’m pretty sure, in any other industry, that would be about 20 different shades of illegal.

re: #75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s when I see these unbelievable, absolutely unimaginable prices, it strikes me how much you needed (and still need) the healthcare reform.

Both QFT. The prospect of being without insurance in this country is terrifying.

89 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 3:12:29pm

Last time when I needed medical help in Russia was when I stumbled in the street at night as I was exiting a subway station and received a nasty wound over my brow. As I got home (I was luckily nearby), I immediately searched on the internet for the nearest ER, went there and got the wound properly disinfected and stitched. I wasn’t asked for an insurance or anything (except probably my passport), and it was completely free. I even went there one more time the next day to change the plaster. And that’s basically what I’m accustomed to. I wonder how much it would have costed in the US.

90 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:12:58pm

re: #83 darthstar

91 octane is midgrade in the UK, they go 89, 91, 93 if I recall. Here it’s 87, 89, 91.

I almost always put midgrade or premium in our cars. Never regular. Except the new diesel X5 - that just gets diesel. BTW, we had to refill the ‘diesel exhaust fluid’ - what the fuck is up with that? Get a warning that says “This car will not start in 986 miles unless you replace the diesel exhaust fluid.”

Diesel exhaust fluid is a newer innovation; it’s injected into the exhaust stream to neutralize certain pollutants and reduce the emissions to even lower levels. TDI clean diesels are pretty clean, but they’re pushing the limits of technology in order to meet ever-stricter CAFE standards.

As for the gasoline grade, seriously, it depends on the car’s engine. Both of the fishmobiles are rated for 87 octane fuel, and there is no noticeable gain from paying for the more expensive stuff. Now if my car had the V6 option, those require 89 octane fuel to run at optimum power and efficiency.

91 whitebeach  Jan 28, 2015 3:14:11pm

re: #55 klystron

When I had my appendix out the bill for the anesthesiologist alone was $20k. That was 6 years ago. I don’t know what the overall total was but we were probably talking in the $50k+ range for 2 days in the hospital and the surgery.

All good wishes to Mr. Klys.

Moneywise, a while back my mom, who is in her 90s, showed me the bill for my delivery into the world some (mumble mumble) years ago. It came to $127. Keep in mind that this was in the days when they didn’t toss you out the door five minutes after the procedure was done. In fact my mom stayed ten nights in the hospital—-and my dad stayed in the room on a cot for nine nights after flying back from military service. That’s right, $127 all told. The anesthesiologist billed $3.50. Not three hundred fifty, not thirty-five hundred, not thirty-five thousand, but three dollars and fifty cents.

Inflation is a thing, but still …

92 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 3:15:09pm

re: #86 The Vicious Babushka

Gas prices are going up again.

Finally something that will make the GOP happy.

93 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:15:39pm

re: #90 thedopefishlives

Diesel exhaust fluid is a newer innovation; it’s injected into the exhaust stream to neutralize certain pollutants and reduce the emissions to even lower levels. TDI clean diesels are pretty clean, but they’re pushing the limits of technology in order to meet ever-stricter CAFE standards.

As for the gasoline grade, seriously, it depends on the car’s engine. Both of the fishmobiles are rated for 87 octane fuel, and there is no noticeable gain from paying for the more expensive stuff. Now if my car had the V6 option, those require 89 octane fuel to run at optimum power and efficiency.

Yep…was just reading up on it. Thanks. 32% urea, 68% water - pissing in the exhaust.

94 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 3:15:53pm

re: #92 Skip Intro

Finally something that will make the GOP happy.

Until, of course, they get too high again.

95 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:16:40pm

re: #91 whitebeach

For each of the fishspawn, the total bill came out somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000. Granted, we didn’t go to a general hospital, we went to a dedicated birthing center, but still. Same care, same procedure, completely different cost.

96 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 3:17:04pm

re: #51 klystron

mr. klys is in the hospital over in London over what is likely just sinus congestion + airplane descent. Hopefully.

Which can be nasty. Went through that once that included an audible “pop” inside my sinuses. That gave me a headache for three weeks.*

* - And the secondary effect of making me vote Republican for two years. ;P

97 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 3:18:27pm

re: #88 CuriousLurker

Both QFT. The prospect of being without insurance in this country is terrifying.

And up until the ACA was passed, if you didn’t have employer provided insurance and had a pre-existing condition (like taking medication for high blood pressure), insurance companies wouldn’t sell you a policy at any price unless you were able to find a loophole.

Then they had to take you, but charged you 400% more than others in your age group (from personal experience).

98 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:18:27pm

re: #91 whitebeach

I blew out my back about 9 years ago (ruptured disk) so badly I blacked out and needed a trip to the ER. IIRC, it was 3 hour visit that cost around 5 grand.

The ambulance ride alone was something like $500-$600.

99 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:18:35pm

re: #96 Feline Fearless Leader

Which can be nasty. Went through that once that included an audible “pop” inside my sinuses. That gave me a headache for three weeks.*

* - And the secondary effect of making me vote Republican for two years. ;P

Well crap, I hope that secondary effect doesn’t manifest. Maybe the socialist treatment he’s getting will help prevent that.

;)

100 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 3:19:28pm

re: #68 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I don’t know why the “Minnesota” Vikings didn’t bother me, but when the Boston Patriots became the “New England” Patriots, that got really annoying.

How about the “Pacific Northwest” Seahawks? The “North America” Bears? The “Milky Way Galaxy” Cowboys? Where does it stop?

DO NOT GIVE JERRY JONES THE IDEA OF MAKING THE COWBOYS “THE UNIVERSE’S TEAM”. NO NO NO.

Bad Reverend. No biscuit.

101 Charles Johnson  Jan 28, 2015 3:19:35pm
102 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:19:46pm

re: #33 The Mountain That Blogs

for what it’s worth, spinal taps are pretty safe. The worst thing that typically happens is a nasty headache.

Now that’s what you’d call ironic - “We’re not sure what’s causing this really bad headache, so we want you to undergo a procedure that will give you a really bad headache.

“Please sign here.”

103 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:19:47pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

It’s a racket. My 13-day stay due to the aneurysm totaled just shy of half a million dollars. It’s insane. No normal person could afford that—they’d be ruined. Luckily, my deductible was only $1000.

You didn’t even get a flight out of that. But I think you came nearer to death than I did.

104 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:20:17pm

re: #97 Skip Intro

And up until the ACA was passed, if you didn’t have employer provided insurance and had a pre-existing condition (like taking medication for high blood pressure), insurance companies wouldn’t sell you a policy at any price unless you were able to find a loophole.

Then they had to take you, but charged you 400% more than others in your age group (from personal experience).

Why the President and Democrats don’t shout this kind of stuff from the rooftops is beyond me. Obama made social media jump like a tiger through a hoop for his elections; you’d think this kind of stuff would be blasted all over Facebook.

105 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:20:17pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

You didn’t even get a flight out of that. But I think you came nearer to death than I did.

I like the part where neither of you is dead and can we please keep it that way?

106 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:20:26pm

re: #35 klystron

It’s ironic, because it’s a nasty headache that started this whole mess.

Only missed by 49 minutes!

107 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 3:20:34pm

re: #94 Eclectic Cyborg

Until, of course, they get too high again.

No, that will make then even happier because it will give them something else to blame on Obama.

108 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:20:57pm

re: #105 klystron

I like the part where neither of you is dead and can we please keep it that way?

I am in favor.

109 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:21:03pm

re: #97 Skip Intro

And up until the ACA was passed, if you didn’t have employer provided insurance and had a pre-existing condition (like taking medication for high blood pressure), insurance companies wouldn’t sell you a policy at any price unless you were able to find a loophole.

Then they had to take you, but charged you 400% more than others in your age group (from personal experience).

Exactly, and these assholes want to roll back the ACA & go back to the old crap. It’s beyond me how people can be convinced to vote against their own interests.

110 OhNoZombies!  Jan 28, 2015 3:21:36pm

re: #91 whitebeach

All good wishes to Mr. Klys.

Moneywise, a while back my mom, who is in her 90s, showed me the bill for my delivery into the world some (mumble mumble) years ago. It came to $127. Keep in mind that this was in the days when they didn’t toss you out the door five minutes after the procedure was done. In fact my mom stayed ten nights in the hospital—-and my dad stayed in the room on a cot for nine nights after flying back from military service. That’s right, $127 all told. The anesthesiologist billed $3.50. Not three hundred fifty, not thirty-five hundred, not thirty-five thousand, but three dollars and fifty cents.

Inflation is a thing, but still …

If I recall correctly, the hospital bill for my 2 day stay for baby delivery was about $13,000.
And I did all of the work!

111 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:22:09pm

Pilot uses chute to land in ocean - it’s all caught on tape.

112 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:22:34pm

re: #102 Blind Frog Belly White

Now that’s what you’d call ironic - “We’re not sure what’s causing this really bad headache, so we want you to undergo a procedure that will give you a really bad headache.

“Please sign here.”

But at least the headache will be explicable, then. Science !!1!

113 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:22:47pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Add the DMCA to the list of things Chuck C. Johnson, award-winning journalist douchecanoe, knows nothing about.

114 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 3:23:51pm

re: #65 goddamnedfrank

*giggle snort*

Thank you for making me laugh. Otherwise I would cry at that level of stupid.

115 Charles Johnson  Jan 28, 2015 3:23:52pm

re: #105 klystron

I like the part where neither of you is dead and can we please keep it that way?

Seconded.

116 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 3:23:54pm

re: #102 Blind Frog Belly White

Now that’s what you’d call ironic - “We’re not sure what’s causing this really bad headache, so we want you to undergo a procedure that will give you a really bad headache.

“Please sign here.”

People think “Wake up and take your sleeping pill” is a joke—but I’ve seen it happen.

117 Charles Johnson  Jan 28, 2015 3:24:21pm

re: #113 thedopefishlives

Add the DMCA to the list of things Chuck C. Johnson, award-winning journalist douchecanoe, knows nothing about.

I haven’t “stolen” any of his idiot photographer’s pictures, by the way.

118 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:24:43pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

but at least the headache will be explicable, then. Science !!1!

The Mayo Clinic’s page on them recommends taking Tylenol to help with the headaches/pain.

I helpfully removed all the Tylenol from his travel meds kit before he left. (He has ibuprofen and asprin. And like 5 kinds of decongestants, including the prescription ones that clearly didn’t quite work well enough.)

119 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:24:51pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

You didn’t even get a flight out of that. But I think you came nearer to death than I did.

Yeah, WTF is up with that? I didn’t even get a helicopter ride! No, I think you actually came closer because you stopped breathing (or was it your heart that stopped?.. Anyway, If someone hadn’t been there to help… *shudder*

Which reminds me, I’m really glad you’re still with us, even if not as often as before. {{ww}}

120 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:25:13pm

re: #108 wrenchwench

Seconded, heh.

121 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 3:25:49pm

re: #72 klystron

[Embedded content]

Video

Tuxedo Cat wishes to subscribe to your newsletter.
(She very raptly watched it once she heard the first couple of meows.)

122 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:26:12pm
123 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 3:26:50pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

I haven’t “stolen” any of his idiot photographer’s pictures, by the way.

Is he talking about my shops? Non commercial commentary and criticism.

124 EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2015 3:26:57pm

re: #109 CuriousLurker

Exactly, and these assholes want to roll back the ACA & go back to the old crap. It’s beyond me how people can be convinced to vote against their own interests.

I think the simple truth here is that people are voting their interests, as they see them. Most GOP voters find allegiance to the various myths the GOP serves up via its endless pandering to be more appealing than the prospect of reforms that may actually help them economically.

To be blunt, the GOP base finds voting their hate and pissing off liberals to be more satisfying than any attempts at reform or progress.

125 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:27:21pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

I haven’t “stolen” any of his idiot photographer’s pictures, by the way.

Well, that’s why I made the comment I did. It’s clear that he knows nothing about how the DMCA works, nor how it defines copyright infringement (which is not the same as “theft”, as you point out). But that certainly won’t stop him from derping about it until he finds a new “lying slut” to attempt to dox or a new bandwagon to throw himself under.

126 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 3:27:31pm

re: #104 Mattand

I think it’s because most working people, until recently, had employer provided insurance. People like me who had to buy their own were pretty much invisible.

Had the ACA been around when I first needed insurance, I figure that I would have saved around $100,000+ in insurance premiums over the years.

127 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 3:27:33pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

and he even misspelled DMCA.

128 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:29:42pm

re: #109 CuriousLurker

Exactly, and these assholes want to roll back the ACA & go back to the old crap. It’s beyond me how people can be convinced to vote against their own interests.

A guy I know is essentially a Blue Dog Democrat. Got really angry at me for blaming the Republicans for shutting down the government in 2013 because it was Obama’s fault for getting the ACA passed.

He’s a substitue teacher and claims the school system cut his hours so they wouldn’t have to offer insurance under the 30 hour rule. A real life “Thanks, Obama!” moment.

I guess it’s possible that was the case. When I pointed out that the possibility they were looking to cut his hours anyway, and this gave them an excuse, he got pissed.

I never know how to approach an issue like this because I never get the full story from people. I mean, if the ACA did cause him to lose hours, than that’s a flaw in the law that he has a right to be angry over.

And it’s really hard to tell someone “But look at all the people who no longer have to make the choice between food and medical care for their kids”, when it’s coming out of their hide.

Of course, this same guy lives in a house with cathedral ceilings and a 3 car garage that’s bigger than my living room and dining room combined. So it’s kind of hard to hear him complain about a law that oh-so-slightly levels the field on health insurance for Teh Poorz.

129 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:29:50pm

re: #116 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

People think “Wake up and take your sleeping pill” is a joke—but I’ve seen it happen.

Isn’t that what killed Marilyn Monroe? (Assuming it wasn’t the Kennedys of course) - she took sleeping pills, then woke up a bit and forgot she’d taken sleeping pills and took some sleeping pills. I thought I read she’d done much the same thing a few weeks prior.

130 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 3:30:48pm

re: #127 Eclectic Cyborg

and he even misspelled DMCA.

He always does that.

131 Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2015 3:31:16pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

He always does that.

Holy crap.

smh.

132 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:31:30pm

re: #128 Mattand

The response to “there is a flaw in this one thing” is not to repeal the entire attempt at reform, unless somehow one thinks the status quo was magically better.

Which it clearly wasn’t for millions of Americans.

133 GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 28, 2015 3:31:30pm

re: #94 Eclectic Cyborg

They hold both houses. Too high isn’t a thing fur them anymore. They will just get more $$$$$$ under the table.

134 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 3:31:48pm

re: #104 Mattand

Why the President and Democrats don’t shout this kind of stuff from the rooftops is beyond me. Obama made social media jump like a tiger for a hoop for his elections; you’d think this kind of stuff would be blasted all over Facebook.

Because Obama was busy running the country rather than campaigning and the rest of the party was quaking in their boots in fear of the Tea Party and Fox News.
(spit)

135 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 3:32:55pm

re: #129 Blind Frog Belly White

Isn’t that what killed Marilyn Monroe? (Assuming it wasn’t the Kennedys of course) - she took sleeping pills, then woke up a bit and forgot she’d taken sleeping pills and took some sleeping pills. I thought I read she’d done much the same thing a few weeks prior.

Could happen. I meant the old joke about nurses in a hospital coming around and telling patients to wake up and take their sleeping pill. the last time I was in a hospital, they actually did that to my roommate.

136 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:33:42pm

re: #132 klystron

The response to “there is a flaw in this one thing” is not to repeal the entire attempt at reform, unless somehow one thinks the status quo was magically better.

Which it clearly wasn’t for millions of Americans.

The status quo WAS magically better, because the black guy in the White House changed it.

Seriously, when I watched the GOP run screaming from their own proposed policies because Obama embraced them, I figured it could only be because they were afraid the blackness might rub off on them.

137 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:35:25pm

re: #135 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Could happen. I meant the old joke about nurses in a hospital coming around and telling patients to wake up and take their sleeping pill. the last time I was in a hospital, they actually did that to my roommate.

Wife, a retired RN, once explained the good reason for that. The drugs and the doctor get a vote, as well as the staff levels.

138 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:36:16pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

I haven’t “stolen” any of his idiot photographer’s pictures, by the way.

I think he’s trying to model himself after those guys mentioned in the SPLC article, Murdock and Whitaker:

“What I am is a provocateur,”Murdock said. “My job is to provoke a conversation using the very charged concept of white genocide to create a paradigm change. I’m not interested in creating a national socialist state.” He added, “I’m doing things intentionally to provoke a reaction.” […]

“There is not a modest bone in my body,” Whitaker wrote in 2004. “I AM a genius. I was born with one hell of a brain, and I scare our enemies because I am so smart I can laugh them to shame. I am at so high a level that a PhD or a big-time news anchor doesn’t mean a thing to me.” […]

splcenter.org

139 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 3:36:23pm

re: #79 klystron

It’s obscene, and that people still try to stand in the way of it is obscene.

Especially when you hear all about it from seniors on Medicare. Like my in-laws.

Now you guys are making me really nervous about my ER visit last week. I have Medicare and a Part C policy, but I’ll be holding my breath until the “here’s what you owe” bills come in—EKG, chest x-ray, bloodwork and about 20 different docs and nurses hovering. They didn’t admit me, but I’m sure the 2.5 hours in the ER will be steep.

140 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:37:47pm

re: #139 BeachDem

Now you guys are making me really nervous about my ER visit last week. I have Medicare and a Part C policy, but I’ll be holding my breath until the “here’s what you owe” bills come in—EKG, chest x-ray, bloodwork and about 20 different docs and nurses hovering. They didn’t admit me, but I’m sure the 2.5 hours in the ER will be steep.

We have the same kind of overlapping coverage—you’re good.

141 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 3:38:09pm

re: #104 Mattand

Why the President and Democrats don’t shout this kind of stuff from the rooftops is beyond me. Obama made social media jump like a tiger for a hoop for his elections; you’d think this kind of stuff would be blasted all over Facebook.

It could be they figured doing that for the last four years would have worn it out by now—but give people another year of being able to get health insurance and then put on a full-court press for the 2016 election: “Look what the Republicans will take away if they win!”

142 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:39:16pm

re: #119 CuriousLurker

Yeah, WTF is up with that? I didn’t even get a helicopter ride! No, I think you actually came closer because you stopped breathing. If someone hadn’t been there to… *shudder*

Which reminds me, I’m really glad you’re still with us, even if not as often as before. {{ww}}

BTW, there is an emergency room in this town. I’m glad they decided to fly me out of state.

The first person to give me CPR was a child care teacher from the nursery school with the best name in the world, “El Grito”.

143 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 3:39:24pm

re: #139 BeachDem

Now you guys are making me really nervous about my ER visit last week. I have Medicare and a Part C policy, but I’ll be holding my breath until the “here’s what you owe” bills come in—EKG, chest x-ray, bloodwork and about 20 different docs and nurses hovering. They didn’t admit me, but I’m sure the 2.5 hours in the ER will be steep.

Take a deep breath. Granted it was a few years ago, but I took my mom to the ER a couple times in her latter years and it was pretty much paid for by Medicare and her supplemental policy.

144 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:41:04pm

re: #79 klystron

It’s obscene, and that people still try to stand in the way of it is obscene.

Especially when you hear all about it from seniors on Medicare. Like my in-laws.

Same problem here. Good ol’ Fox-fueled “Well, our medical bills got paid way back when”, because the 1950’s are no different than the 2010’s, apparently.

Also comes with a steaming dollop of fear that people who don’t have peach-colored skin are getting something for free.

145 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 3:41:30pm

re: #142 wrenchwench

BTW, there is an emergency room in this town. I’m glad they decided to fly me out of state.

The first person to give me CPR was a child care teacher from the nursery school with the best name in the world, “El Grito”.

Are you sure you read/heard that correctly? Or was it just truth in advertising?
/

146 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:41:31pm

re: #142 wrenchwench

BTW, there is an emergency room in this town. I’m glad they decided to fly me out of state.

The first person to give me CPR was a child care teacher from the nursery school with the best name in the world, “El Grito”.

I meant to write your heart stopped—scary either way.

“El Grito”, huh? That truly is a great name! ;-)

147 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:42:03pm

re: #143 calochortus

Take a deep breath. Granted it was a few years ago, but I took my mom to the ER a couple times in her latter years and it was pretty much paid for by Medicare and her supplemental policy.

Yup, with one warning—learn how to open the medical bills. They always start with the heart-stopper, then deal away the costs over the insurer, Medicare, and the negotiated final cost—often nothing.

148 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:42:23pm

re: #147 Decatur Deb

Yup, with one warning—learn how to open the medical bills. They always start with the heart-stopper, then deal away the costs over the insurer, Medicare, and the negotiated final cost—often nothing.

Read from the bottom up!

149 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 3:42:51pm
Saul Steinberg, The Rabbit, 1960
150 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:43:07pm

So I saw there was some discussion of the Challenger accident earlier today.

My mom watched that while nursing me.

/gets off the lawn

151 GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 28, 2015 3:43:07pm

So those Vanderbikt football players were convicted of rape. Due to cellphone video. Miss Chuck offered a bounty on the victim yet?

152 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:43:25pm

re: #128 Mattand

A guy I know is essentially a Blue Dog Democrat. Got really angry at me for blaming the Republicans for shutting down the government in 2013 because it was Obama’s fault for getting the ACA passed.

He’s a substitue teacher and claims the school system cut his hours so they wouldn’t have to offer insurance under the 30 hour rule. A real life “Thanks, Obama!” moment.

I guess it’s possible that was the case. When I pointed out that the possibility they were looking to cut his hours anyway, and this gave them an excuse, he got pissed.

I never know how to approach an issue like this because I never get the full story from people. I mean, if the ACA did cause him to lose hours, than that’s a flaw in the law that he has a right to be angry over.

And it’s really hard to tell someone “But look at all the people who no longer have to make the choice between food and medical care for their kids”, when it’s coming out of their hide.

Of course, this same guy lives in a house with cathedral ceilings and a 3 car garage that’s bigger than my living room and dining room combined. So it’s kind of hard to hear him complain about a law that oh-so-slightly levels the field on health insurance for Teh Poorz.

Most people, it’s not coming out of their hide. To most people the effects are invisible. Those folks who scream ‘Repeal!’ mostly are in the ‘unaffected’ category, where they have the luxury to look down their noses at folks who don’t have employer-provided health insurance, and make ‘principled’ arguments about ‘being responsible for yourself’.

My usual response is that since Reagan signed TEFRA and made healthcare a right, there is no mechanism to toss you on the street once your care has exhausted all your assets, so we all end up paying for it anyway.

At this point they usually go silent or call me a communist.

153 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:43:44pm

re: #141 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

It could be they figured doing that for the last four years would have worn it out by now—but give people another year of being able to get health insurance and then put on a full-court press for the 2016 election: “Look what the Republicans will take away if they win!”

The Democratic Party will never have their shit together enough to pull off a play like that.

Hell, I could Hillary Clinton downplaying the ACA out of spite because it’s something Obama did.

154 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:44:52pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

He always does that.

Everyone else is wrong.
//

155 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:46:26pm

re: #145 calochortus

Are you sure you read/heard that correctly? Or was it just truth in advertising?
/

Named for the historic event, but I’ heard some truth coming out, too!

156 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 3:47:33pm

I rarely have the audio on for Vines, but this one is pretty cool.

157 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:47:44pm

re: #142 wrenchwench

In part because of your experience, the husband and I have been talking about going and getting refresher courses on our first aid/CPR training, so that if something like that happened we would be able to help.

We also are discussing going through the certification be able to support first responders in the event of a major earthquake in this area; the biggest challenge is being in town for the right extended period to do so (it’s about a month of classes).

I do have a mini first-aid kit tucked in my purse all the time and it includes a CPR mask.

158 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 3:47:46pm

re: #150 klystron

So I saw there was some discussion of the Challenger accident earlier today.

My mom watched that while nursing me.

/gets off the lawn

Get off t… oh…
Youths these days!

159 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:48:28pm

re: #150 klystron

So I saw there was some discussion of the Challenger accident earlier today.

My mom watched that while nursing me.

/gets off the lawn

The older boy says he doesn’t want to drive MY Challenger, lest it go the same way.

I’m not sure why or how he knows about the Challenger explosion, since he was -5 at the time. And he never went to school, either. Apparently, he didn’t need to.

160 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:48:59pm

re: #152 Blind Frog Belly White

Most people, it’s not coming out of their hide. To most people the effects are invisible. Those folks who scream ‘Repeal!’ mostly are in the ‘unaffected’ category, where they have the luxury to look down their noses at folks who don’t have employer-provided health insurance, and make ‘principled’ arguments about ‘being responsible for yourself’.

My usual response is that since Reagan signed TEFRA and made healthcare a right, there is no mechanism to toss you on the street once your care has exhausted all your assets, so we all end up paying for it anyway.

At this point they usually go silent or call me a communist.

LOL, I’ll have to remember that.

This guy is claiming the school board told the subs explicitly that 30-hour rule meant they had to offer insurance and therefore they were cutting their hours to avoid it.

That’s the story I’m getting. If true, I don’t have an answer for that. On its surface, it appears to be an open-and-shut case of the ACA causing a reduction in hours.

The key phrase here is “If true”. This guy once told me that UFO sightings are most likely human time travelers from a distant century. Because aliens would be a stupid idea. So there’s a little skepticism on my part on whether I got the full story or not.

161 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:49:09pm

re: #159 Blind Frog Belly White

The older boy says he doesn’t want to drive MY Challenger, lest it go the same way.

I’m not sure why or how he knows about the Challenger explosion, since he was -5 at the time. And he never went to school, either. Apparently, he didn’t need to.

You could point out to him that having it go the same way would require freezing temperatures and since we’re in CA …he’s pretty safe.

162 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:50:08pm

re: #157 klystron

In part because of your experience, the husband and I have been talking about going and getting refresher courses on our first aid/CPR training, so that if something like that happened we would be able to help.

We also are discussing going through the certification be able to support first responders in the event of a major earthquake in this area; the biggest challenge is being in town for the right extended period to do so (it’s about a month of classes).

I do have a mini first-aid kit tucked in my purse all the time and it includes a CPR mask.

Good for you! I haven’t refreshed in 20 years! The guy who got to me second had done it the day before!

163 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 3:50:37pm

re: #147 Decatur Deb

Yup, with one warning—learn how to open the medical bills. They always start with the heart-stopper, then deal away the costs over the insurer, Medicare, and the negotiated final cost—often nothing.

Yeah, I’ve figured that out—had cataract surgery last year, and they probably could have covered the whole thing for what the paper cost to send the “THIS IS NOT A BILL, but you might owe such and such” notices. Ended up being about $100 total out of pocket, not counting the eyedrops—didn’t have prescription coverage at the time.

164 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 3:50:38pm

re: #161 klystron

You could point out to him that having it go the same way would require freezing temperatures and since we’re in CA …he’s pretty safe.

That’s what they thought about Florida!
//

165 LadyBehir  Jan 28, 2015 3:50:40pm

Medical costs are bizarre. Helicopter ride 7 years ago from one hospital to another - 30 minute flight - $29,416. More than the cost of our first home. Our premiums at that time were 425 a month with a $5000 deductible. We hit that deductible for 5 years in a row. Car accidents and cancer will do that. And our premiums went up to $600 a month. Market crashed, taking our business. Can’t afford insurance. Can’t afford to not have it. I hate insurance. Makes no sense to me to pay a middleman.

166 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 3:50:52pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

Named for the historic event, but I’ heard some truth coming out, too!

Ah. Thanks for the explanation.

167 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:51:26pm

re: #164 Blind Frog Belly White

That’s what they thought about Florida!
//

Pesky things, those thermometers.

Hard to read.

168 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:51:49pm

re: #150 klystron

So I saw there was some discussion of the Challenger accident earlier today.

My mom watched that while nursing me.

/gets off the lawn

I remember bitching about the 30th anniversary of JFK getting shot because it was seemingly non-stop in the news at the time. The person looked at me and said, “So, I guess you’re under 30.”

We’ll let it slide. For now…

169 BlueSpotinAL  Jan 28, 2015 3:51:50pm

re: #128 Mattand

A guy I know is essentially a Blue Dog Democrat. Got really angry at me for blaming the Republicans for shutting down the government in 2013 because it was Obama’s fault for getting the ACA passed.

He’s a substitue teacher and claims the school system cut his hours so they wouldn’t have to offer insurance under the 30 hour rule. A real life “Thanks, Obama!” moment.

I guess it’s possible that was the case. When I pointed out that the possibility they were looking to cut his hours anyway, and this gave them an excuse, he got pissed.

I can attest that keeping substitute teachers at < 30 per week did happen in my school district. Now whether it was a misinterpretation of the ACA law, I can’t say.

170 A Cranky One  Jan 28, 2015 3:52:22pm

re: #29 klystron

I might still end up being productive. Hopefully he is sleeping and I should not sit here poking at the IM client thinking that will magically make the wifi work in the new ward.

It would be $2k to fly to Heathrow tonight. Also I would need to be packed and leave the house in about an hour. That is probably not worth it.

…probably.

Maybe the wait for the harp delivery was practice for the wait for news ;)

Seriously though, since they haven’t identified any condition requiring emergency treatment and the current treatment seems to be precautionary, I’d hold off on buying tickets. But I understand how you feel and absolutely hate the kind of waiting you are enduring. And while you may be better than the hubby at not freaking when doing a little research on medical stuff, don’t let your own imagination stress you out while you’re waiting.

Many positive thoughts for you both and please keep us updated.

171 CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2015 3:52:33pm

re: #160 Mattand

This guy once told me that UFO sightings are most likely human time travelers from a distant century. Because aliens would be a stupid idea.

*SNORT* Man, I’m glad I wasn’t getting ready to take a sip of coffee when I read that…

172 Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2015 3:53:17pm

re: #165 LadyBehir

Medical costs are bizarre. Helicopter ride 7 years ago from one hospital to another - 30 minute flight - $29,416. More than the cost of our first home. Our premiums at that time were 425 a month with a $5000 deductible. We hit that deductible for 5 years in a row. Car accidents and cancer will do that. And our premiums went up to $600 a month. Market crashed, taking our business. Can’t afford insurance. Can’t afford to not have it. I hate insurance. Makes no sense to me to pay a middleman.

Are you in the sweet spot for ACA? Here, because our governor is a dolt, you have to make 12,000 to qualify at all.

173 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 3:54:14pm

re: #170 A Cranky One

At this point I’m not going. Would need to be at the airport in about 45 minutes, rush hour traffic not withstanding and I have neither packed nor bought tickets.

Instead I am distracting myself by making snarky commentary here while there are people around and will maybe poke that the giant to do list I was *going* to tackle today when you all turn into pumpkins and go to bed at reasonable times like normal human beings.

174 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 3:55:56pm

re: #173 klystron

At this point I’m not going. Would need to be at the airport in about 45 minutes, rush hour traffic not withstanding and I have neither packed nor bought tickets.

Instead I am distracting myself by making snarky commentary here while there are people around and will maybe poke that the giant to do list I was *going* to tackle today when you all turn into pumpkins and go to bed at reasonable times like normal human beings.

You’re talking to the guy who stayed up till midnight last night simply because he got absorbed in a good book. Reasonable times, normal human beings, BAH HUMBUG.

175 Mattand  Jan 28, 2015 3:56:31pm

re: #171 CuriousLurker

*SNORT* Man, I’m glad I wasn’t getting ready to take a sip of coffee when I read that…

We both looked over at his wife, who just sat there with one of the greatest poker faces I’ve ever seen. No idea whether she believed him or was wincing internally.

The kicker is that he had just got done telling us that as an engineer, he was trained to make sure you had X amount of data points before you committed to an idea.

176 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 3:56:45pm

Sorry for RT (that’s not their YT channel anyway):

177 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:57:17pm

re: #173 klystron

At this point I’m not going. Would need to be at the airport in about 45 minutes, rush hour traffic not withstanding and I have neither packed nor bought tickets.

Instead I am distracting myself by making snarky commentary here while there are people around and will maybe poke that the giant to do list I was *going* to tackle today when you all turn into pumpkins and go to bed at reasonable times like normal human beings.

May I remain a pumpkin for about a week? Thanks!

178 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 3:59:31pm

re: #165 LadyBehir

I’d love to see universal healthcare. I have Kaiser now which is imperfect and not cheap, but in some ways very close to what I imagine universal healthcare would be like. My knee replacement cost $400 (2 nights in the hospital) plus a few $10 and $25 co pays for doctor visits, physical therapy and such. I love the emphasis on preventative care since my plan isn’t to get as much healthcare as I possibly can for my dollar, but to stay healthy. I realize this isn’t everyone’s idea of a bargain.
Furthermore, I don’t mind paying for other people’s healthcare because what we all need is a safety net and appropriate care. On the other hand, I do realize there are people who want every test known to humankind and view the cost of a drug as directly proportional to how well it works, so some kind of controls need to be in place.

179 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 3:59:58pm
180 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 4:00:02pm

re: #160 Mattand

The key phrase here is “If true”. This guy once told me that UFO sightings are most likely human time travelers from a distant century. Because aliens would be a stupid idea. So there’s a little skepticism on my part on whether I got the full story or not.

Hell, I say the same thing all the time. The key word being “IF”:

IF these stories and pictures of UFO pilots and alien autopsies and abductions and so on and so on are true—the one thing these “aliens” have in common is that they’re all human. Sure, some of them are a little funny-looking, but the probability that an intelligent alien, the result of billions of years of separate evolution, would resemble humans that closely is so close to zero as to make no difference.

We think time travel (or travel between parallel universes) is authentically impossible, but in my opinion, the probability that we’re wrong about that is much larger than the ostensibly “possible but unlikely” human-looking aliens.

181 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 4:01:18pm

re: #173 klystron

when you all turn into pumpkins and go to bed at reasonable times like normal human beings.

Not me—I always figure late night will be active because of all the west-coasters here, which would be great for an east-coaster with terminal insomnia. But, apparently there are more normal human beings with reasonable bedtimes than I’d like, as it’s sort of a ghost town here between midnight and 2-3 am EST, my usual time to retire.

182 The Mountain That Blogs  Jan 28, 2015 4:02:14pm

re: #157 klystron

fun fact: the mask isn’t all that necessary. dispatcher assisted compression only CPR performed by laypeople in the field has better survival rates than layperson performed standard CPR

183 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:02:20pm

re: #181 BeachDem

Not me—I always figure late night will be active because of all the west-coasters here, which would be great for an east-coaster with terminal insomnia. But, apparently there are more normal human beings with reasonable bedtimes than I’d like, as it’s sort of a ghost town here between midnight and 2-3 am EST, my usual time to retire.

I went to bed last night at about 2:30 Pacific.

184 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 4:03:09pm
185 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:03:28pm

re: #182 The Mountain That Blogs

fun fact: the mask isn’t all that necessary. dispatcher assisted compression only CPR performed by laypeople in the field has better survival rates than layperson performed standard CPR

Yeah, but I figure it doesn’t hurt to have one. :) Obviously it wouldn’t be the considering factor in would I or wouldn’t I.

The bigger issue is getting a refresher course.

186 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2015 4:04:46pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

You didn’t even get a flight out of that. But I think you came nearer to death than I did.

Yep. That helicopter ambulance had to be insanely pricey. Were you even conscious at that point?

187 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 4:05:14pm
188 darthstar  Jan 28, 2015 4:06:04pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

You didn’t even get a flight out of that. But I think you came nearer to death than I did.

THIS ISN’T A CONTEST…for fuck’s sake, people, stay alive.

189 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2015 4:06:28pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Dafuq? And he grabs photos from hither & yon sticking his watermark on them.

190 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:07:30pm

re: #189 The Vicious Babushka

Dafuq? And he grabs photos from hither & yon sticking his watermark on them.

My dog does the same thing with shrubs and telephone poles.

191 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 4:07:49pm

re: #180 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

We think time travel (or travel between parallel universes) is authentically impossible, but in my opinion, the probability that we’re wrong about that is much larger than the ostensibly “possible but unlikely” human-looking aliens.

One of the many things that bothers me about TT is the aging paradox.
Suppose you take something with you to the past. Say, your mom’s locket. You leave it to your great-grandmother, it stays in the family and you receive it in the future. The first weird thing is that this locket has no origin, it just “is”, but that’s not what bothers me (it’s weird, but it’s not “logically contradictory”).

From the moment your great-grandma receives the locket to the moment you get it it is inevitably damaged (scratches, etc. - the usual stuff). Then you take it back and it basically has to go through a new aging cycle. All the old scratches remain and the new ones are added. But it’s supposed to be the same locket in the same state, isn’t it? There aren’t supposed to be “new” cycles - it’s just the same time loop. Yet it cannot be the same time loop because each time the locket receives new wear. Moreover, at some point the locket will simply break. This picture just doesn’t make sense. Yet how can it be excluded if TT is possible?

192 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:09:57pm

re: #189 The Vicious Babushka

Dafuq? And he grabs photos from hither & yon sticking his watermark on them.

I think we’ve already established that the rules do not apply to Charles C. Johnson, award-winning journalist douchecanoe.

193 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:15:26pm

re: #191 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

One of the many things that bothers me about TT is the aging paradox.
Suppose you take something with you to the past. Say, your mom’s locket. You leave it to your great-grandmother, it stays in the family and you receive it in the future. The first weird thing is that this locket has no origin, it just “is”, but that’s not what bothers me (it’s weird, but it’s not “logically contradictory”).

From the moment your great-grandma receives the locket to the moment you get it it is inevitably damaged (scratches, etc. - the usual stuff). Then you take it back and it basically has to go through a new aging cycle. All the old scratches remain and the new ones are added. But it’s supposed to be the same locket in the same state, isn’t it? There aren’t supposed to be “new” cycles - it’s just the same time loop. Yet it cannot be the same time loop because each time the locket receives new wear. Moreover, at some point the locket will simply break. This picture just doesn’t make sense. Yet how can it be excluded if TT is possible?

Really? Where the locket comes from isn’t what bothers you? That’s odd, because that’s what bothers me MOST!

Seriously, though, as I see it, anything that travels in time still has its own clock. Send fresh radium back 1600 years, and find it today, it should have lost half its radioactivity (For example).

So the locket has its own clock. It gets worn away over time. Which means your grandmother broke the locket you gave her when you traveled to the past, bought a new one, and lied about where she got it.

There, both problems solved neatly, and only requiring a little white lie on Nana’s part!

194 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 4:16:06pm

re: #186 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep. That helicopter ambulance had to be insanely pricey. Were you even conscious at that point?

I have “amnesia” for a couple of days around the incident, but Mr. w was told by some woman that I was saying, “I’m broken.”

195 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 4:17:48pm

re: #191 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

One of the many things that bothers me about TT is the aging paradox.
Suppose you take something with you to the past. Say, your mom’s locket. You leave it to your great-grandmother, it stays in the family and you receive it in the future. The first weird thing is that this locket has no origin, it just “is”, but that’s not what bothers me (it’s weird, but it’s not “logically contradictory”).

From the moment your great-grandma receives the locket to the moment you get it it is inevitably damaged (scratches, etc. - the usual stuff). Then you take it back and it basically has to go through a new aging cycle. All the old scratches remain and the new ones are added. But it’s supposed to be the same locket in the same state, isn’t it? There aren’t supposed to be “new” cycles - it’s just the same time loop. Yet it cannot be the same time loop because each time the locket receives new wear. Moreover, at some point the locket will simply break. This picture just doesn’t make sense. Yet how can it be excluded if TT is possible?

In the Block Universe—which is the prediction of General Relativity (See Palle Yourgrau for example) traveling back in time is meaningless, because it would just be the same timeline you already went forward on.

That’s kind of why I mentioned parallel universes. I think if time travel is possible, that necessitates their existence. The results of your activities in the past create a new universe while the one whose future you started from goes on as is.

IOW, you wouldn’t start your time trip in your DeLorean from the Twin Pines Mall,and have it be the Lone Tree Mall when you came back, just because you knocked down one of them in 1955 when you got there—Zemeckis notwithstanding.

196 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:17:54pm

re: #194 wrenchwench

I have “amnesia” for a couple of days around the incident, but Mr. w was told by some woman that I was saying, “I’m broken.”

As you are still with us, I feel it is okay for me to find that kind of amusing.

197 wrenchwench  Jan 28, 2015 4:19:28pm

re: #196 klystron

As you are still with us, I feel it is okay for me to find that kind of amusing.

Mr. w says if anything, my sense of humor has improved.

198 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:20:52pm

re: #195 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

In the Block Universe—which is the prediction of General Relativity (See Palle Yourgrau for example) traveling back in time is meaningless, because it would just be the same timeline you already went forward on.

That’s kind of why I mentioned parallel universes. I think if time trave is possible, that necessitates their existence. The results of your activities in the past create a new universe while the one whose future you started from goes on as is.

IOW, you wouldn’t start your time trip in your DeLorean from the Twin Pines Mall,and have it be the Lone Tree Mall when you came back, just because you knocked down one of them in 1955 when you got there—Zemeckis notwithstanding.

“Time travel is impossible! BUT, if it WEREN’T, it would work this way!”
///

199 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 4:21:22pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

DCMA? What’s that? For his 158IQ, he sure gets lots of basic stuff wrong. It’s the DMCA, and it and the Copyright Act allow Fair Use.

But if he’s in a suing mood, why doesn’t he get on all those so-called libel suits he’s threatening. I’ve lost count, but I guess this adds to the tally of bogus suits threatened.

chuckcjohnson.info

200 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 4:22:58pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

It’s a racket. My 13-day stay due to the aneurysm totaled just shy of half a million dollars. It’s insane. No normal person could afford that—they’d be ruined. Luckily, my deductible was only $1000.

And that’s why there are so many medical-related bankruptcies. Because a catastrophic ailment/injury can be even more devastating to the person’s finances.

201 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:25:01pm

Today’s ambitious plans included cleaning out the messy corner in the kitchen, along with the kitchen table and buffet.

And maybe the linen closet and under the bathroom sinks. And the kitchen cabinets and the pantry.

On the flip side, this could all still happen because I have no idea when I am going to be able to get to sleep.

202 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 4:25:16pm

re: #193 Blind Frog Belly White

Really? Where the locket comes from isn’t what bothers you? That’s odd, because that’s what bothers me MOST!

Let’s put it this way: it’s bothersome but it doesn’t cause logical contradiction which seem to imply the impossibility of TT.

So the locket has its own clock. It gets worn away over time. Which means your grandmother broke the locket you gave her when you traveled to the past, bought a new one, and lied about where she got it.

There, both problems solved neatly, and only requiring a little white lie on Nana’s part!

Even this trick (which is easily avoidable: e.g. the locket is kept in a deposit box in a bank) doesn’t really solve the ontological problems that arise, because the existence of the “object clock” implies new, different time loops where there should be just one. “Where” do these time loops “reside”? Did they even happen?

203 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:27:27pm

re: #200 lawhawk

And that’s why there are so many medical-related bankruptcies. Because a catastrophic ailment/injury can be even more devastating to the person’s finances.

I do not get why Libertarians do not get that. I was arguing with one once, who was pulling the ‘I only want to be responsible for myself and my family!’ bit.

I asked where people who got unexpectedly sick were supposed to get that kind of money. He told me the Free Market would figure something out, maybe they could BORROW the money!!

I pointed out that most people who get cancer are close to, if not beyond the end of their working lives, and who would lend a guy with only a few years of work left $500,000 with no collateral?

He retreated to the ‘I only want to be responsible for myself and my family!’ bit.

204 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jan 28, 2015 4:30:25pm

re: #202 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

“Where” do these time loops “reside”? Did they even happen?

Time loops were available for a limited period back in the Eighties. They were free in specially marked boxes of Fruit Loops.

205 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:31:01pm

re: #201 klystron

Today’s ambitious plans included cleaning out the messy corner in the kitchen, along with the kitchen table and buffet.

And maybe the linen closet and under the bathroom sinks. And the kitchen cabinets and the pantry.

On the flip side, this could all still happen because I have no idea when I am going to be able to get to sleep.

Mrs. Fish just helped me decontaminate a fishspawn. Ugh. I love my children, but on occasion, they can be a disaster.

206 goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2015 4:32:14pm

Not enough popcorn in the world.

207 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 4:32:58pm

re: #201 klystron


On the flip side, this could all still happen because I have no idea when I am going to be able to get to sleep.

How about between 1 and 2 a.m.? Around 8 or 9 a.m. London time your husband or his boss or someone should find out that he’s going to be fine and let you know. You’ll spend about an hour relaxing and winding down and then you’ll get a good night’s sleep. I hope.

208 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 4:33:49pm

re: #195 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

In the Block Universe—which is the prediction of General Relativity (See Palle Yourgrau for example) traveling back in time is meaningless, because it would just be the same timeline you already went forward on.

That’s kind of why I mentioned parallel universes. I think if time travel is possible, that necessitates their existence. The results of your activities in the past create a new universe while the one whose future you started from goes on as is.

IOW, you wouldn’t start your time trip in your DeLorean from the Twin Pines Mall,and have it be the Lone Tree Mall when you came back, just because you knocked down one of them in 1955 when you got there—Zemeckis notwithstanding.

The aging paradox is more fatal for the block universe TT than for the “presentist” one, since it is static and there can be no aging whatsoever by def, yet it is logically unavoidable in such a scenario. That is, if we mean TT in one universe.
The creation of new universes seems like an ad hoc hypothesis. I don’t know why such actions would create these universes. Moreover, since the block universe is static, these universes have always been there…

209 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:33:57pm

re: #205 thedopefishlives

Mrs. Fish just helped me decontaminate a fishspawn. Ugh. I love my children, but on occasion, they can be a disaster.

I’d ask if they pulled an Upchuck but your children are probably better behaved.

210 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 4:34:04pm

re: #203 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, so what happens when it’s their own family. A mother? An uncle? And they’re squarely in the middle class - figure about $50k in salary a year, maybe about $75k in savings/401k, and a home worth about $150k and about $40k still owed.

A $500,000 bill would put them into bankruptcy, clean out their savings, and the only thing saving them from being on the street is that personal bankruptcies can’t take the house. They’d find their wages garnished to satisfy the debt.

It’s an unsustainable situation, but it’s even more common when you’ve got people who don’t have insurance at all - and the hospitals also lose out because they have to fund their indigent care accounts and they don’t see any compensation for years to come.

211 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:34:06pm

re: #202 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Let’s put it this way: it’s bothersome but it doesn’t cause logical contradiction which seem to imply the impossibility of TT.

Even this trick (which is easily avoidable: e.g. the locket is kept in a deposit box in a bank) doesn’t really solve the ontological problems that arise, because the existence of the “object clock” implies new, different time loops where there should be just one. “Where” do these time loops “reside”? Did they even happen?

Maybe I’m missing something, but you’re suggesting that a fictional idea makes TT impossible.

212 A Cranky One  Jan 28, 2015 4:34:22pm

re: #201 klystron

Hmmm…didn’t see practicing on the new harp on that list. So either you don’t consider that a chore or you’re getting lazy!

All seriousness aside, had much opportunity to play it?

Also, if I’d realized there were so many other insomniac lizards I’d have said howdy. Or get off my lawn, whatever.

213 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 4:35:34pm

re: #210 lawhawk

Yeah, so what happens when it’s their own family. A mother? An uncle? And they’re squarely in the middle class - figure about $50k in salary a year, maybe about $75k in savings/401k, and a home worth about $150k and about $40k still owed.

A $500,000 bill would put them into bankruptcy, clean out their savings, and the only thing saving them from being on the street is that personal bankruptcies can’t take the house. They’d find their wages garnished to satisfy the debt.

It’s an unsustainable situation, but it’s even more common when you’ve got people who don’t have insurance at all - and the hospitals also lose out because they have to fund their indigent care accounts and they don’t see any compensation for years to come.

God wouldn’t let that happen to them.
//

214 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:36:02pm

re: #212 A Cranky One

I played some on Monday, but you are right in that it doesn’t make it onto the to do list because it isn’t a chore.

I am definitely a late night Lizard, the only question is when I am around the computer. Not every night, but a chunk of them, especially during the week.

Especially this week. So say hi and give me someone to chat with.

215 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 4:37:11pm

re: #211 Blind Frog Belly White

Maybe I’m missing something, but you’re suggesting that a fictional idea causes makes TT impossible.

If TT is possible, nothing seems to prevent this scenario.
I.e. if TT is possible, this scenario is possible.
This scenario is impossible.
Conclusion?

216 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2015 4:38:22pm

re: #174 thedopefishlives

You’re talking to the guy who stayed up till midnight last night simply because he got absorbed in a good book. Reasonable times, normal human beings, BAH HUMBUG.

dammit, I did the same thing and got less than 4 hours sleep because I HAD TO GET UP to keep the pipes from freezing.
Good thing it’s not supposed to be anywhere near as cold tonight.

217 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 4:38:24pm

I have discovered that the Feline Overlords like listening to Robin Trower.

One of them stared at the laptop last night while I was playing Bridge of Sorrows before posting a comment with a link to a YouTube video of it.

So, tonight, as an experiment I am playing the whole Bridge of Sorrows album (via YouTube) on the laptop. I have two cats sitting by me looking at the laptop.

Just need to find a nice video of birds and mice running about, pay some royalties, and I can make a mint with an hour long cat DVD!

;)

218 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:41:04pm

re: #210 lawhawk

Yeah, so what happens when it’s their own family. A mother? An uncle? And they’re squarely in the middle class - figure about $50k in salary a year, maybe about $75k in savings/401k, and a home worth about $150k and about $40k still owed.

A $500,000 bill would put them into bankruptcy, clean out their savings, and the only thing saving them from being on the street is that personal bankruptcies can’t take the house. They’d find their wages garnished to satisfy the debt.

It’s an unsustainable situation, but it’s even more common when you’ve got people who don’t have insurance at all - and the hospitals also lose out because they have to fund their indigent care accounts and they don’t see any compensation for years to come.

I’ve concluded that in their minds there are only 3 kinds of people:

1. Them. That is, people who have jobs and health insurance for whom the above scenario wouldn’t happen, because insurance would take care of it.

2. The disabled. These are the only poor people deserving of help, so charity will take care of them.

3. The Lazy And Shiftless. Everyone who CAN work MUST work, and everyone who DOES work must get a good enough job to have health insurance, or they deserve to go bankrupt from health bills because they should have had a better job.

It does no good to point out that there are only so many jobs that have health insurance, because they are unable to see things like that.

219 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:41:28pm

re: #209 klystron

I’d ask if they pulled an Upchuck but your children are probably better behaved.

Oh, no, they throw screaming hissy fits all the time. And they’re both gingers, too, whaddya know.

220 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 4:41:47pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

Photonic Gaucho @goddamnedfrank

Can’t wait for @ChuckCJohnson to run for office, try and sell “anti-racist is anti white” in a district that is 71% Hispanic.

Will Chucky change his name to Cesar Chavez or Ted Cruz?

221 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:42:17pm

re: #219 thedopefishlives

Oh, no, they throw screaming hissy fits all the time. And they’re both gingers, too, whaddya know.

On the flip side, they are both what, under 5?

222 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:42:35pm

re: #215 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

If TT is possible, nothing seems to prevent this scenario.
I.e. if TT is possible, this scenario is possible.
This scenario is impossible.
Conclusion?

No, sorry, but if TT is possible, the locket still has to have an origin. It can’t come from nowhere, which means you’re BASING the scenario on the impossible.

223 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:42:46pm

re: #221 klystron

On the flip side, they are both what, under 5?

Yep. Which also fits with the idea that they exhibit similar temperament to our UpChuck.

224 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:43:32pm

re: #223 thedopefishlives

Yep. Which also fits with the idea that they exhibit similar temperament to our UpChuck.

Well, I would still not insult them by comparing their behavior to Upchuck.

225 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 4:43:46pm

Shaved my beard off today for the first time in over 25 years and immediately remembered why I grew one in the first place.

226 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2015 4:44:28pm

re: #182 The Mountain That Blogs

fun fact: the mask isn’t all that necessary. dispatcher assisted compression only CPR performed by laypeople in the field has better survival rates than layperson performed standard CPR

not so fun fact: the mask is absolutely essential if rescue breathing is involved with the CPR because many times there’s a really messy result…

227 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:44:31pm

re: #224 klystron

Well, I would still not insult them by comparing their behavior to Upchuck.

Well, at their age, floorshitting is not completely unexpected.

228 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 4:44:39pm
Blues Kitties want more Robin Trower!
229 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:45:11pm

re: #227 Blind Frog Belly White

Well, at their age, floorshitting is not completely unexpected.

But not maliciously done!

230 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:45:16pm

re: #218 Blind Frog Belly White

I’ve concluded that in their minds there are only 3 kinds of people:

1. Them. That is, people who have jobs and health insurance for whom the above scenario wouldn’t happen, because insurance would take care of it.

2. The disabled. These are the only poor people deserving of help, so charity will take care of them.

3. The Lazy And Shiftless. Everyone who CAN work MUST work, and everyone who DOES work must get a good enough job to have health insurance, or they deserve to go bankrupt from health bills because they should have had a better job.

It does no good to point out that there are only so many jobs that have health insurance, because they are unable to see things like that.

When one dares to suggest that the jobs that don’t pay enough or give adequate health coverage probably SHOULD, so as to eliminate the problem illuminated by your final point, they go into an epic meltdown. Clearly people who are willing to settle for these “minimum-wage jobs” must be in the third category, regardless of if there is other gainful employment they can obtain or not.

231 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2015 4:45:51pm

re: #188 darthstar

THIS ISN’T A CONTEST…for fuck’s sake, people, stay alive.

Survivors are allowed to joke about it.

232 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:46:18pm

re: #225 De Kolta Chair

Shaved my beard off today for the first time in over 25 years and immediately remembered why I grew one in the first place.

The breezes on the chin take a while to get used to. Mostly what I miss about having a beard, though, is not having to fucking shave every fucking day. Mrs. FBW is very sensitive to stubble.

233 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:46:37pm

re: #229 klystron

But not maliciously done!

Well, the elder fishspawn, maybe. He’s old enough to know better. Junior fishspawn, who happens to have been the one involved in the decontamination, however, is not.

234 Charles Johnson  Jan 28, 2015 4:46:46pm

Chuck is tying himself in knots right now trying to claim white supremacism doesn’t even exist.

235 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2015 4:48:03pm

re: #201 klystron

Today’s ambitious plans included cleaning out the messy corner in the kitchen, along with the kitchen table and buffet.

And maybe the linen closet and under the bathroom sinks. And the kitchen cabinets and the pantry.

On the flip side, this could all still happen because I have no idea when I am going to be able to get to sleep.

the while-you-sleep-cleaning-fairies will take care of all that.
Unless the cats get to them first…

236 The Mountain That Blogs  Jan 28, 2015 4:48:07pm

re: #226 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, that’s just it—compression only CPR doesn’t involve rescue breathing.

237 GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 28, 2015 4:48:46pm

Did a garlic and herb pork loin sous vide tonight. 6 hours in the sous vide setup I have, then a quick sear on the stove = easy dinner.

238 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 4:48:58pm

re: #222 Blind Frog Belly White

No, sorry, but if TT is possible, the locket still has to have an origin. It can’t come from nowhere, which means you’re BASING the scenario on the impossible.

Causation loops are a thing in SF literature.

Interstellar is essentially a giant one since they go through a wormhole and do things that eventually save humanity. And it is clearly implied that a future humanity (or offshoot thereof) set up the wormhole and allowed other activities.

239 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:49:02pm

re: #235 Backwoods_Sleuth

the while-you-sleep-cleaning-fairies will take care of all that.
Unless the cats get to them first…

I have one cat trying to be a hockey player.

I have another cat stalking him.

…I have no hope for the cleaning fairies. But I have vague hope that the Devils will win this game.

240 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:51:00pm

re: #239 klystron

I have one cat trying to be a hockey player.

I have another cat stalking him.

…I have no hope for the cleaning fairies. But I have vague hope that the Devils will win this game.

Of late, whenever I have descended into the realm of the basement cats, they have been seen bookending the couch.

241 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:51:36pm

re: #230 thedopefishlives

When one dares to suggest that the jobs that don’t pay enough or give adequate health coverage probably SHOULD, so as to eliminate the problem illuminated by your final point, they go into an epic meltdown. Clearly people who are willing to settle for these “minimum-wage jobs” must be in the third category, regardless of if there is other gainful employment they can obtain or not.

Their belief is that ANYONE can get a good, high-paying job, so anyone who doesn’t have one must not be working hard enough. When you try to point out that there aren’t enough good, high-paying jobs for EVERYONE, they look at you as if you’d asked them to describe the smell of blue. It’s like you’re speaking a foreign language.

Same thing with simultaneously bitching that there are not enough jobs under Obama, and that all those unemployed people should just get one of those jobs they JUST SAID there are not enough of.

242 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:52:24pm

re: #240 thedopefishlives

Of late, whenever I have descended into the realm of the basement cats, they have been seen bookending the couch.

They are being active because it’s about an hour out from dinner. I have had company for a reasonable portion today, though, which has been helpful.

The other unanswered question in all of this is if he’s going to need to reschedule coming home - his flight is for Sunday, and his birthday is Monday.

243 bratwurst  Jan 28, 2015 4:52:28pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Chuck is tying himself in knots right now trying to claim white supremacism doesn’t even exist.

The next time someone who ISN’T a white supremacist opines on the very existence of white supremacism will be the first.

244 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:52:40pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Chuck is tying himself in knots right now trying to claim white supremacism doesn’t even exist.

How’s THAT working out for him? Not well, I expect.

245 #FergusonFireside  Jan 28, 2015 4:53:34pm

re: #237 GlutenFreeJesus

Did a garlic and herb pork loin sous vide tonight. 6 hours in the sous vide setup I have, then a quick sear on the stove = easy dinner.

Embedded Image

Embedded Image

omg, that looks delish.

246 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2015 4:56:09pm

re: #241 Blind Frog Belly White

Their belief is that ANYONE can get a good, high-paying job, so anyone who doesn’t have one must not be working hard enough. When you try to point out that there aren’t enough good, high-paying jobs for EVERYONE, they look at you as if you’d asked them to describe the smell of blue. It’s like you’re speaking a foreign language.

Same thing with simultaneously bitching that there are not enough jobs under Obama, and that all those unemployed people should just get one of those jobs they JUST SAID there are not enough of.

The Article Of Faith is that anyone working at a minimum-wage job does so because they have no skills, are stupid, worthless, lazy and unmotivated.

This meme:

Which I fixed to this:

247 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 4:56:18pm

re: #241 Blind Frog Belly White

Their belief is that ANYONE can get a good, high-paying job, so anyone who doesn’t have one must not be working hard enough. When you try to point out that there aren’t enough good, high-paying jobs for EVERYONE, they look at you as if you’d asked them to describe the smell of blue. It’s like you’re speaking a foreign language.

Same thing with simultaneously bitching that there are not enough jobs under Obama, and that all those unemployed people should just get one of those jobs they JUST SAID there are not enough of.

Well, clearly that means we need to start paying the job creators more so that there are more good, high-paying jobs for the people that don’t want to be seen as lazy layabouts working at McDonald’s.

248 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 4:56:27pm

re: #218 Blind Frog Belly White

I’ve concluded that in their minds there are only 3 kinds of people:

1. Them. That is, people who have jobs and health insurance for whom the above scenario wouldn’t happen, because insurance would take care of it.

2. The disabled. These are the only poor people deserving of help, so charity will take care of them.

3. The Lazy And Shiftless. Everyone who CAN work MUST work, and everyone who DOES work must get a good enough job to have health insurance, or they deserve to go bankrupt from health bills because they should have had a better job.

It does no good to point out that there are only so many jobs that have health insurance, because they are unable to see things like that.

There’s a 4th category—those who fall into category 3, but feel that the description doesn’t apply to them.

The brother of a friend falls into it. WORSHIPS Rush; hasn’t had a real job in about 10 years—feels nothing is suitable to his “talents”—he could work as a line cook, but only wants to own a restaurant, so instead, sells doodads at a flea market; lives on his mother’s couch (he’s about 60, she’s close to 90); blames teachers’ unions for all the ills of the world.

Borrowed money from his brother all the time, until he borrowed to repair his car—brother, onto his scams, went and bought the car parts instead of giving him the money—then the creep returned the parts and spent the money on booze and cigarettes.

He had a medical emergency that required life flight and about 10 days in the hospital. Of course, no insurance, but felt the care was his due for some odd reason.

But he feels superior to just about everyone he encounters.

249 Renaissance_Man  Jan 28, 2015 4:57:08pm

re: #210 lawhawk

Yeah, so what happens when it’s their own family. A mother? An uncle? And they’re squarely in the middle class - figure about $50k in salary a year, maybe about $75k in savings/401k, and a home worth about $150k and about $40k still owed.

A $500,000 bill would put them into bankruptcy, clean out their savings, and the only thing saving them from being on the street is that personal bankruptcies can’t take the house. They’d find their wages garnished to satisfy the debt.

It’s an unsustainable situation, but it’s even more common when you’ve got people who don’t have insurance at all - and the hospitals also lose out because they have to fund their indigent care accounts and they don’t see any compensation for years to come.

The debate in the US has been successfully diverted away from the real question. Everyone bleats about ‘who’s going to pay for it?’ ‘Why should I look after anyone else?’ And so on. These questions, pathetic as they are, are not the right question. They’re also asked because they’re not easy to answer, at least not easy to answer to people who deny the very existence of the commons, despite the fact that the evidence of it is around them at all times.

The real question is, ‘why does health care cost so much?’ Why, for instance, do the same tests and the same surgeries and the same medicines in other countries cost a tenth of what they do here? Partly this is because of the huge amount of administrative waste and middlemen that the US health system supports - administrative bloat that adds nothing to health care, the same bloat that pays thousands of administrators, who do nothing except obstruct the delivery of care, the same salaries individually as surgeons. But mostly it is because of all the stories you have posted in this thread - ridiculous bills that are made up out of thin air. Prices that have no basis in cost, supply, demand, or reality. Hospitals and insurance companies play this game of pretend, creating large numbers out of nothing at all, and in the end, all that happens is patients go bankrupt, and the federal government pays out a huge percentage of GDP for the same or inferior care that other countries get for a fraction of the price. And they give away this money - your money - in upwards wealth transfer, to support hospital and insurance executives who have no interest in your disease unless they can make money from it.

250 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 4:58:01pm

re: #249 Renaissance_Man

Bureaucracy is bad unless it is related to health insurance.

///

251 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 4:58:12pm

re: #238 Feline Fearless Leader

Causation loops are a thing in SF literature.

[Embedded content]

I’m a linear thinker (so I’ve been told). To me, each item has its own clock that only runs forward. If you travel to the past, you and the items that went with you take their clocks along.

To me, the idea of the locket that comes form nowhere is absurd, so the question of its origin answers the question of its destiny. That is, if it being caught in a loop requires it to not have an origin, then clearly that loop can’t exist.

252 GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 28, 2015 4:58:30pm

re: #245 #FergusonFireside</e>

Thank you! Came out perfect as is par for the course with sous vide. Only have to look up time and temp.

I did cheat though. Got a pre-packed/season loin from the store. lol

253 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 4:58:38pm
Danny Shanahan
254 b_sharp  Jan 28, 2015 4:59:37pm

re: #251 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m a linear thinker (so I’ve been told). To me, each item has its own clock that only runs forward. If you travel to the past, you and the items that went with you take their clocks along.

To me, the idea of the locket that comes form nowhere is absurd, so the question of its origin answers the question of its destiny. That is, if it being caught in a loop requires it to not have an origin, then clearly that loop can’t exist.

You could be a loopy thinker.

255 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 5:00:17pm
Everyone bleats about ‘who’s going to pay for it?’ ‘Why should I look after anyone else?’

That’s quite odd in a country where the vast majority publicly express their love and obedience to all things Jesus.

256 klystron  Jan 28, 2015 5:02:31pm
257 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:03:12pm

re: #255 Skip Intro

That’s quite odd in a country where the vast majority publicly express their love and obedience to all things Jesus.

IIRC, some RW pundit a year or so ago said that the existence of safety net programs was bad because it kept Christians from doing good works for their salvation, as if poor people exist solely to give Christians a chance to show off how good they are, rather than having their own separate reason for being.

258 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:03:35pm

re: #254 b_sharp

You could be a loopy thinker.

I’ve been called worse.

259 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 5:05:16pm

re: #257 Blind Frog Belly White

IIRC, some RW pundit a year or so ago said that the existence of safety net programs was bad because it kept Christians from doing good works for their salvation, as if poor people exist solely to give Christians a chance to show off how good they are, rather than having their own separate reason for being.

Maybe they should think about it the other way. Maybe if they get off their lazy asses and do the good works Jesus commanded us to do, then the safety net programs could go away.

260 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 5:06:33pm

re: #257 Blind Frog Belly White

Most evangelicals I’ve met simply declare that they’ve been saved and never give it another thought. They give money to the church. That’s more than enough.

261 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:06:43pm

re: #248 BeachDem

There’s a 4th category—those who fall into category 3, but feel that the description doesn’t apply to them.

The brother of a friend falls into it. WORSHIPS Rush; hasn’t had a real job in about 10 years—feels nothing is suitable to his “talents”—he could work as a line cook, but only wants to own a restaurant, so instead, sells doodads at a flea market; lives on his mother’s couch (he’s about 60, she’s close to 90); blames teachers’ unions for all the ills of the world.

Borrowed money from his brother all the time, until he borrowed to repair his car—brother, onto his scams, went and bought the car parts instead of giving him the money—then the creep returned the parts and spent the money on booze and cigarettes.

He had a medical emergency that required life flight and about 10 days in the hospital. Of course, no insurance, but felt the care was his due for some odd reason.

But he feels superior to just about everyone he encounters.

Remember the “I’m the 53%!” campaign on social media, where a bunch of people who CLEARLY fell below the cutoff for Federal Income tax liability insisted they were self-reliant and supporting the lazy 47%?

He’s one of those.

262 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 5:06:53pm

re: #249 Renaissance_Man

All true. The whole health care pricing system is a mess. Much of the pricing is indeed invented, and the only thing that manages to bend the pricing curve is Medicare and Medicaid since it has the sheer numbers behind it that private (profit or nonprofit) insurers can. One of the ACA provisions is to start getting costs out in the open, so people can see what things actually cost so they can compare an MRI at hospital A and B, and wonder why there’s a difference for the same exact procedure.

I get that there’s lots of innovation and drugs can cost more in the US because it’s what the drug companies will try to wring out before their patents expire, but excluding that, the costs for procedures is out of control too - where an appendectomy with no complications can cost X in France, but 3X in the States. Or an angiogram can cost Y in GB but 5Y in the US.

And the outcomes aren’t any better, and in some cases worse, than the Europeans or Canadian systems.

263 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 5:07:16pm

re: #232 Blind Frog Belly White

The breezes on the chin take a while to get used to. Mostly what I miss about having a beard, though, is not having to fucking shave every fucking day. Mrs. FBW is very sensitive to stubble.

My wife hates the stubble as well, but I hate my weak chin even more. Started growing a beard since I could grow a beard. Had that one for years and shaved it 25 years ago to get a job. Once I snagged the job, I grew one again. Last week I noticed a little bald spot on my chin and shaved it today to see if it the bald spot would go away. Mr. Science I ain’t.

264 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2015 5:07:38pm

Every Time Travel Movie Ever, Ranked

BEST: Back To The Future I

WORST: The Lake House

265 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 5:08:27pm

Has to be a sock!

266 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 5:08:52pm

re: #260 Skip Intro

Most evangelicals I’ve met simply declare that they’ve been saved and never give it another thought. They give money to the church. That’s more than enough.

Because way too many churches refuse to actually preach the truth - Jesus was a hippie, He hung out with sinners, He befriended prostitutes and homeless people. He went out and ministered and made a difference. Churchgoers these days just want to hear happy fluffy bunny stuff about how they’re going to heaven as long as they sit in a cushioned pew every week and write a check every so often.

267 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 5:09:01pm

re: #262 lawhawk

I had an MRI done on each shoulder, a couple of weeks apart, at the same imaging center.

One side cost around $150 more than the other.

268 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:09:54pm

re: #259 thedopefishlives

Maybe they should think about it the other way. Maybe if they get off their lazy asses and do the good works Jesus commanded us to do, then the safety net programs could go away.

What do you mean? I got my yellow “Support the Troops!” ribbon on my Escalade! I gave money to the Right To Life people! I gave money to the ‘No Gay Marriage’ people! What more does God want from me, besides killing Moozlimz, controlling ladyparts, and hating gayz?

269 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 5:10:01pm

re: #264 The Vicious Babushka

Every Time Travel Movie Ever, Ranked

BEST: Back To The Future I

WORST: The Lake House

For Christmas this year, my parents found me a Back to the Future Lego set reproducing the modified DeLorean time-traveling car. I constructed it last night with my son. It was awesome.

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 5:10:20pm

re: #262 lawhawk

All true. The whole health care pricing system is a mess. Much of the pricing is indeed invented, and the only thing that manages to bend the pricing curve is Medicare and Medicaid since it has the sheer numbers behind it that private (profit or nonprofit) insurers can. One of the ACA provisions is to start getting costs out in the open, so people can see what things actually cost so they can compare an MRI at hospital A and B, and wonder why there’s a difference for the same exact procedure.

I get that there’s lots of innovation and drugs can cost more in the US because it’s what the drug companies will try to wring out before their patents expire, but excluding that, the costs for procedures is out of control too - where an appendectomy with no complications can cost X in France, but 3X in the States. Or an angiogram can cost Y in GB but 5Y in the US.

And the outcomes aren’t any better, and in some cases worse, than the Europeans or Canadian systems.

Is part of the effect also malpractice insurance for the doctors since our culture is a bit litigation happy over just about anything? And I expect medicine and outcomes from medical procedures probably more so than other areas.

271 A Cranky One  Jan 28, 2015 5:10:34pm

re: #267 Skip Intro

I had an MRI done on each shoulder, a couple of weeks apart, at the same imaging center.

One side cost around $150 more than the other.

Was it the left wing or the right wing?

272 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 5:11:16pm

re: #222 Blind Frog Belly White

No, sorry, but if TT is possible, the locket still has to have an origin. It can’t come from nowhere, which means you’re BASING the scenario on the impossible.

No, you’re excluding the scenario based on non-TT considerations. Once TT is in play, the locket’s history is no longer guaranteed to be so simple.

273 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:11:45pm

re: #263 De Kolta Chair

My wife hates the stubble as well, but I hate my weak chin even more. Started growing a beard since I could grow a beard. Had that one for years and shaved it 25 years ago to get a job. Once I snagged the job, I grew one again. Last week I noticed a little bald spot on my chin and shaved it today to see if it the bald spot would go away. Mr. Science I ain’t.

Yeah, but I bet you can’t find the bald spot now!

274 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 5:11:54pm

Food for thought: Jesus was homeless. He subsisted on the generosity of His own followers. Now I’m not saying that all Christians should get rid of their comfy lifestyles, but it’s a privilege, not a right, and it comes with a responsibility.

275 EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2015 5:12:44pm

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

Is part of the effect also malpractice insurance for the doctors since our culture is a bit litigation happy over just about anything? And I expect medicine and outcomes from medical procedures probably more so than other areas.

“Tort reform” is a GOP hobby-horse intended to address this issue. As far as I can tell, its implementation in some red states by capping damages etc. has had no effect at all on medical costs.

276 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 5:12:44pm

re: #228 Feline Fearless Leader

Zoom. Enhance. Zoom. Enhance. O hai FFL, I can see you!

;)

277 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 5:13:36pm

re: #267 Skip Intro

Sheesh. Nuts.

278 BeachDem  Jan 28, 2015 5:13:44pm

re: #261 Blind Frog Belly White

Remember the “I’m the 53%!” campaign on social media, where a bunch of people who CLEARLY fell below the cutoff for Federal Income tax liability insisted they were self-reliant and supporting the lazy 47%?

He’s one of those.

Oh yeah, definitely. And to top it off, he’s so fucking arrogant about everything.

I’ve had a self-supporting freelance business since 1983—own my car and my house outright—he always brings up how he and I are so much alike. Yeah, NO.

I had to stop hanging around my friends, because he would always be there and I couldn’t stand to be in the same room with him.

His brother was pretty funny about the Rush worship. Always used to say, “If Rush came across him, he’d run him over with his car, then back over him again to be sure the job was done.”

279 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Jan 28, 2015 5:14:08pm

It’s 2015. Where’s mah hover board!

280 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:14:10pm

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

Is part of the effect also malpractice insurance for the doctors since our culture is a bit litigation happy over just about anything? And I expect medicine and outcomes from medical procedures probably more so than other areas.

Nope. There are states that enacted the Right Wing’s dream Malpractice reform. Guess what? No difference.

Malpractice insurance is only a tiny percentage of the total cost. And while the cost of ‘defensive medicine’ is real, there would be a cost in lives if it stopped - all the ‘excessive tests’ do actually catch things that save lives somethings.

281 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 5:14:11pm

re: #264 The Vicious Babushka

Every Time Travel Movie Ever, Ranked

BEST: Back To The Future I

WORST: The Lake House

If forced to choose right this minute, Time After Time (1979) is my fave.
282 lawhawk  Jan 28, 2015 5:14:47pm

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

Med mal insurance is a cost, but it’s not exactly the driver of costs here. Some of it might be defensive medicine, but the costs are coming up out of thin air.

283 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 5:14:51pm

re: #271 A Cranky One

Was it the left wing or the right wing?

Left wing was more. Maybe that’s because I live in a right wing county.

284 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:16:07pm

re: #281 De Kolta Chair

[Embedded content]

Who would have guessed he’d grow up to look like Sting’s ugly brother?

285 EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2015 5:17:30pm

re: #184 darthstar

No more tax return information form Romney will ever be made available. It wouldn’t do for the little people to see just how low the legal rates are for the oligarchs.

286 thedopefishlives  Jan 28, 2015 5:17:55pm

re: #279 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s 2015. Where’s ma hover board!

“Where we’re going, we don’t need roads.”

Oh, don’t I wish. After a pothole ate my fishmobile and cost me $500 and change in repairs…

287 Skip Intro  Jan 28, 2015 5:18:11pm

re: #274 thedopefishlives

Food for thought: Jesus was homeless. He subsisted on the generosity of His own followers. Now I’m not saying that all Christians should get rid of their comfy lifestyles, but it’s a privilege, not a right, and it comes with a responsibility.

Well, that’s what Jesus preached, but that was because he believed that the end times were near and everyone needed to get right with God, or else.

The only thing the evangelicals I knew had in common with that was the part about the end times being near.

288 TedStriker  Jan 28, 2015 5:19:06pm

re: #28 Higgs Boson’s Mate

How old would you be if you had no way of knowing your age?

Well, you can always cut a leg off and count the rings.

///

289 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 5:19:58pm

re: #284 Blind Frog Belly White

Who would have guessed he’d grow up to look like Sting’s ugly brother?

I wouldn’t call him ugly, but he could do with a few 24-hour tantric sex sessions. And one of those weird-looking lutes Sting likes to have his photo taken with. I wonder if Sting has 24-hour tantric sex sessions with his lute? If so, would that make it a magic lute? Was Roxanne a lute? Is the blizzard over yet? Can I go outside now? You don’t have to put on the red light!!!

Signed, Cabin Feverish in NYC

290 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:20:00pm

re: #262 lawhawk

All true. The whole health care pricing system is a mess. Much of the pricing is indeed invented, and the only thing that manages to bend the pricing curve is Medicare and Medicaid since it has the sheer numbers behind it that private (profit or nonprofit) insurers can. One of the ACA provisions is to start getting costs out in the open, so people can see what things actually cost so they can compare an MRI at hospital A and B, and wonder why there’s a difference for the same exact procedure.

I get that there’s lots of innovation and drugs can cost more in the US because it’s what the drug companies will try to wring out before their patents expire, but excluding that, the costs for procedures is out of control too - where an appendectomy with no complications can cost X in France, but 3X in the States. Or an angiogram can cost Y in GB but 5Y in the US.

And the outcomes aren’t any better, and in some cases worse, than the Europeans or Canadian systems.

It is common on the Right to claim that our high drug costs subsidize the rest of the world, but many Asian and European Pharma companies cut deals with Biotech companies in which the Biotech retains the US rights while the Pharma company gets Europe and Asia. If it were really true that they only make profits on US drug sales because other countries control prices, all those companies would have to be really, really unaware of where their bread is buttered.

291 Renaissance_Man  Jan 28, 2015 5:20:45pm

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

Is part of the effect also malpractice insurance for the doctors since our culture is a bit litigation happy over just about anything? And I expect medicine and outcomes from medical procedures probably more so than other areas.

It is a very, very tiny part. Doctor salaries, which would increase as a result of malpractice insurance, make up 8% of the healthcare budget. The actual amount of money that goes to the doctors and nurses that provide the healthcare is a small fraction of the health care pie. The vast majority goes to ‘administration’, medical device companies, drug companies, and so forth. Yet physicians come increasingly under fire to justify their salaries, validate their outcomes, and measure their performance in patient satisfaction.

292 EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2015 5:23:54pm

re: #291 Renaissance_Man

It is a very, very tiny part. Doctor salaries, which would increase as a result of malpractice insurance, make up 8% of the healthcare budget. The actual amount of money that goes to the doctors and nurses that provide the healthcare is a small fraction of the health care pie. The vast majority goes to ‘administration’, medical device companies, drug companies, and so forth. Yet physicians come increasingly under fire to justify their salaries, validate their outcomes, and measure their performance in patient satisfaction.

That’s what ticks me off the most about the GOP’s completely mindless resistance to any and all reforms of the US healthcare system. It’s as if they think the US health care system is some kind of highly optimized thing that would be spoiled by any attempted reform

This is a proposition so stupid it would be insulting to attribute it to Republicans.

293 Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 28, 2015 5:24:29pm

re: #287 Skip Intro

Well, that’s what Jesus preached, but that was because he believed that the end times were near and everyone needed to get right with God, or else.

The only thing the evangelicals I knew had in common with that was the part about the end times being near.

The End Times will be triggered by the commercial mass release of fusion-powered flying cars.
/

294 TedStriker  Jan 28, 2015 5:27:01pm

re: #83 darthstar

91 octane is midgrade in the UK, they go 89, 91, 93 if I recall. Here it’s 87, 89, 91.

I almost always put midgrade or premium in our cars. Never regular. Except the new diesel X5 - that just gets diesel. BTW, we had to refill the ‘diesel exhaust fluid’ - what the fuck is up with that? Get a warning that says “This car will not start in 986 miles unless you replace the diesel exhaust fluid.”

en.wikipedia.org

295 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2015 5:28:51pm

re: #291 Renaissance_Man

It is a very, very tiny part. Doctor salaries, which would increase as a result of malpractice insurance, make up 8% of the healthcare budget. The actual amount of money that goes to the doctors and nurses that provide the healthcare is a small fraction of the health care pie. The vast majority goes to ‘administration’, medical device companies, drug companies, and so forth. Yet physicians come increasingly under fire to justify their salaries, validate their outcomes, and measure their performance in patient satisfaction.

Self-certified Lasik Operator Rand Paul insists that if we just eliminated all the Medicaids, health insurance and everything and let the “Free Market” work its magic, health care costs would simply readjust themselves as people “shop around” for the best bargains, just like they do when buying a new car or TV.

His proof? LOOK AT HOW THE COST OF LASIK SURGERY HAS GONE DOWN!!!1!!! PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!!!11!!!

Well here’s the thing, Lasik surgery is still hella more expensive than perching two slices of plastic in a holder on your nose, in front of your eyes so you can see better. It’s not something that you need to save your life, like a kidney transplant or getting patched up after a car crash.

Even if I was considering Lasik, I would never let Rand Paul anywhere near my eyeballs with a concentrated blowtorch.

296 calochortus  Jan 28, 2015 5:29:35pm

re: #278 BeachDem

Oh yeah, definitely. And to top it off, he’s so fucking arrogant about everything.

I’ve had a self-supporting freelance business since 1983—own my car and my house outright—he always brings up how he and I are so much alike. Yeah, NO.

I had to stop hanging around my friends, because he would always be there and I couldn’t stand to be in the same room with him.

His brother was pretty funny about the Rush worship. Always used to say, “If Rush came across him, he’d run him over with his car, then back over him again to be sure the job was done.”

The biggest Rush fan I ever met was on disability, sold stuff at the flea market, and basically lived on his wife’s income from a government job.
Oh. And he was convicted of having spied for the Soviets when he was an army clerk. For fairly small money too.

297 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:35:33pm

re: #295 The Vicious Babushka

Self-certified Lasik Operator Rand Paul insists that if we just eliminated all the Medicaids, health insurance and everything and let the “Free Market” work its magic, health care costs would simply readjust themselves as people “shop around” for the best bargains, just like they do when buying a new car or TV.

His proof? LOOK AT HOW THE COST OF LASIK SURGERY HAS GONE DOWN!!!1!!! PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!!!11!!!

Well here’s the thing, Lasik surgery is still hella more expensive than perching two slices of plastic in a holder on your nose, in front of your eyes so you can see better. It’s not something that you need to save your life, like a kidney transplant or getting patched up after a car crash.

Even if I was considering Lasik, I would never let Rand Paul anywhere near my eyeballs with a concentrated blowtorch.

“Hi. I’ve got this terrible pain in my chest. Feels like an elephant sitting on it, and I can’t breathe. Now my left arm is going numb. How much do you charge for an ambulance? How much extra if I ask for one with a defibrillator? Thanks.

“Okay, which hospitals do you serve? Thanks. I’ll get back to you after I call them and see which charges less for emergency bypass surgery.”

298 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:36:20pm

re: #294 TedStriker

en.wikipedia.org

“Urea! I just met a girl named Urea!”

299 TedStriker  Jan 28, 2015 5:38:46pm

re: #105 klystron

I like the part where neither of you is dead and can we please keep it that way?

WW and CL: the two charter members of the LGF Death Cheaters Club.

I envision the club logo containing a Lizard kicking the Grim Reaper in the nuts.

;-P

300 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jan 28, 2015 5:39:06pm

re: #298 Blind Frog Belly White

“Urea! I just met a girl named Urea!”

Urea Hogg? Was this in Texas?

301 Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2015 5:39:45pm

re: #292 EPR-radar

That’s what ticks me off the most about the GOP’s completely mindless resistance to any and all reforms of the US healthcare system. It’s as if they think the US health care system is some kind of highly optimized thing that would be spoiled by any attempted reform

This is a proposition so stupid it would be insulting to attribute it to Republicans.

We have the best healthcare system in the world!!!!

Really? What do you base that on, since ours is more expensive than anyone else’s and covers less of the population, plus we don’t live as long and have higher infant mortality?

Why do you hate America?

302 De Kolta Chair  Jan 28, 2015 5:40:29pm

re: #273 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, but I bet you can’t find the bald spot now!

Silver lining, thy name is Blind Frog Belly White! ;-)

303 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Jan 29, 2015 6:53:06am

re: #225 De Kolta Chair

Shaved my beard off today for the first time in over 25 years and immediately remembered why I grew one in the first place.

Happens to me every time. Longest I’ve been able to keep it all off is maybe three months; that was two years ago. Might never do it again.


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