NBC’s Brian Williams Forgot He Wasn’t Actually on a Helicopter Shot Down in Iraq

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But come on, folks, give Brian Williams a break. Who among us hasn’t occasionally forgotten we didn’t actually storm the beach at Normandy on D-Day? NBC’s Brian Williams Recants Iraq Story After Soldiers Protest.

WASHINGTON — NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams admitted Wednesday he was not aboard a helicopter hit and forced down by RPG fire during the invasion of Iraq in 2003, a false claim that has been repeated by the network for years.

Williams repeated the claim Friday during NBC’s coverage of a public tribute at a New York Rangers hockey game for a retired soldier that had provided ground security for the grounded helicopters, a game to which Williams accompanied him. In an interview with Stars and Stripes, he said he had misremembered the events and was sorry.

The admission came after crew members on the 159th Aviation Regiment’s Chinook that was hit by two rockets and small arms fire told Stars and Stripes that the NBC anchor was nowhere near that aircraft or two other Chinooks flying in the formation that took fire. Williams arrived in the area about an hour later on another helicopter after the other three had made an emergency landing, the crew members said.

“I would not have chosen to make this mistake,” Williams said. “I don’t know what screwed up in my mind that caused me to conflate one aircraft with another.”

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397 comments
1 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:15:01pm

Hillary Clinton?

2 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 4:15:53pm
3 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:17:08pm

I remember it as clearly as if it was yesterday: me, riding alongside Napoleon towards Moscow… Those were the days!

4 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:17:24pm

Maybe dudebro Brian was shooting at the helicopter and his memory got mixed up?

//

5 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 4, 2015 4:18:34pm

I was killed twice in Vietnam.

I got better.

6 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:18:59pm

re: #4 b.d.

Maybe dudebro Brian was shooting at the helicopter and his memory got mixed up?

//

Is Brian Williams a dudebro? I kinda figured him to be a Jon Stewart MBF type?

7 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:19:16pm

re: #5 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I was killed twice in Vietnam.

I got better.

Was it when the gates of Vietnam were stormed by king Nebuchadnezzar?

8 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 4:20:19pm

re: #5 Higgs Boson’s Mate

You’re mighty spry for a dead guy. /

9 Great White Snark  Feb 4, 2015 4:20:38pm

re: #2 lawhawk

Be careful what we wish for…. Who would replace him?

10 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:20:38pm

re: #6 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Is Brian Williams a dudebro? I kinda figured him to be a Jon Stewart MBF type?

He sets off my dudebro-dar

11 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 4, 2015 4:21:30pm

re: #7 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Was it when the gates of Vietnam were stormed by king Nebuchadnezzar?

Fucker ran out some elephants against us.

12 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:21:44pm

re: #7 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Was it when the gates of Vietnam were stormed by king Nebuchadnezzar?

Could be wrong, but I thought it was when the Israelites marched around Vietnam and King Tezcacoatl blew the Elephant’s tusk and the walls came down.

13 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 4:22:19pm

I might have been mistaken when I claimed to have fought alongside El Cid

14 Skip Intro  Feb 4, 2015 4:24:08pm

So everything is Fox News now.

15 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:24:19pm

re: #12 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Could be wrong, but I thought it was when the Israelites marched around Vietnam and King Tezcacoatl blew the Elephant’s tusk and the walls came down.

Your memory is obviously wrong, because I remember it vividly: Nebuchadnezzar sent his bravest fighter Yuri Gagarin against Vietnam’s best fighter Ronald McDonald and after McDonald sent Gagarin into space with one strong kick, Nebu attacked the Vietnam space station anyway. The Klingons were pretty angry back then.

16 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:24:47pm

re: #9 Great White Snark

Be careful what we wish for…. Who would replace him?

Chuck Todd? (shudder)

17 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 4:24:54pm

re: #9 Great White Snark

Max Headroom. We’re already there in so many other ways, might as well make the transition complete.

And a little musical interlude:

18 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 4:25:20pm

re: #2 lawhawk

So when does the #fireBrianWilliams hashtag gain traction? Misremembered getting shot down? How do you misremember that? Asking for a friend

This guy was shot down and shot up often enough he might forget one.

ameddregiment.amedd.army.mil

Note to Rev Fischer—he did all this in an unarmed slick.

19 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 4:25:31pm
20 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:26:12pm

I never really cared about Brian Williams one way or the other until I started watching his interviews on the Daily Show. He always comes off as one of the guys who thinks he’s the smartest one in the room, and you’re a moron for not recognizing that. Like, Bill Maher-level smug.

It does not shock me he would do something like this.

21 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:26:40pm

I feel obligate to post this one:

22 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:27:41pm

re: #20 Mattand

I never really cared about Brian Williams one way or the other until I started watching his interviews on the Daily Show. He always comes off as one of the guys who thinks he’s the smartest one in the room, and you’re a moron for not recognizing that. Like, Bill Maher-level smug.

It does not shock me he would do something like this.

I’ve never gotten quite that vibe from him. Bill Maher-level smug is almost GG-level smug, and I don’t think Williams has reached that level.

23 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 4:27:44pm

Brian Williams stood next to Jesus Christ and stormed Normandy during the War of Spanish Succession.

It’s like a history Mad-Libs!

24 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:28:30pm
25 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 4:28:31pm
26 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:28:33pm

Brian and Gigi

27 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:29:22pm

I was on that flight and I don’t remember Williams being there.

28 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:31:10pm
“I would not have chosen to make this mistake,” Williams said. “I don’t know what screwed up in my mind that caused me to conflate one aircraft with another.”

That’s the really strange statement in the whole thing. Maybe it was sleep deprivation? Adrenalin? Maybe he dreamed it one way later and just accepted that as the facts?

Strange story.

29 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:31:46pm

re: #22 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

I’ve never gotten quite that vibe from him. Bill Maher-level smug is almost GG-level smug, and I don’t think Williams has reached that level.

To me, there was a condescension towards Jon Stewart and the show, kind of a “Nice little public-access gig you’ve got going here.” Despite the fact that TDS often does much better journalism than NBC News.

30 Skip Intro  Feb 4, 2015 4:33:24pm
31 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:33:32pm

But being serious for a second, it may be one of those infamous false memories. Memory is extremely malleable, which is one of the problems with witness testimonies - esp. with the old ones.

On the other hand, it’s such a conveniently heroic story that maybe he indeed just lied all this time.

32 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 4:34:02pm
33 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 4:34:43pm

re: #20 Mattand

I never really cared about Brian Williams one way or the other until I started watching his interviews on the Daily Show. He always comes off as one of the guys who thinks he’s the smartest one in the room, and you’re a moron for not recognizing that. Like, Bill Maher-level smug.

It does not shock me he would do something like this.

I didn’t like Williams until he appeared on the Daily Show and realized that he really does have a personality and is funny on top of that. I think Jon Stewart should interview him about this. ;-)

On a weird note, my grandfather worked for the railroad during World War II. Because they considered that an important job, they would not let him go to war which always bothered him. When he was in a rehab place after having his leg amputated and was on a bunch of pain medicine, he was delirious. He thought he was in France, fighting in the war.

34 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 4:35:24pm

Charles, looks like you beat @daveweigel by six minutes.

:-D

35 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 4:35:36pm

re: #31 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

But being serious for a second, it may be one of those infamous false memories. Memory is extremely malleable, which is one of the problems with witness testimonies - esp. with the old ones.

On the other hand, it’s such a conveniently heroic story that maybe he indeed just lied all this time.

You know, it’s hard to imagine anyone thinking they could tell a lie so big, and so easily debunked, while being a prominent figure on national television who’s trying to be taken seriously.

36 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:35:40pm

Forrest Gump was based off of Brian Williams’ autobiography

37 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 4:36:57pm

re: #36 b.d.

Forrest Gump was based off of Brian Williams’ autobiography

And that’s all I’m gonna say about that.

38 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:37:14pm

re: #35 Blind Frog Belly White

You know, it’s hard to imagine anyone thinking they could tell a lie so big, and so easily debunked, while being a prominent figure on national television who’s trying to be taken seriously.

Yes. But humans are weird beings :)
So, you think false memory is a possibility?

39 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 4:37:48pm
40 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:39:12pm

re: #38 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Yes. But humans are weird beings :)
So, you think false memory is a possibility?

Hillary Clinton and the helicopter coming under fire in Bosnia (?) is what this reminds me of. I do think false memories are possible. Hell, eyewitness testimony isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

41 Skip Intro  Feb 4, 2015 4:39:33pm

I’ve always told people that I fought in the Tet Offensive, but I’ve just remembered that I was home in bed at the time.

42 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 4:40:25pm
43 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 4:40:34pm

re: #38 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Yes. But humans are weird beings :)
So, you think false memory is a possibility?

Well, Reagan famously ‘remembered’ being part of the group that filmed the liberated concentration camps, despite never leaving the States during WWII.

Then again, he was later diagnosed with Alzheimers.

44 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:40:40pm

re: #14 Skip Intro

So everything is Fox News now.

Thing is, a Fox News mouth breather can do something like this and get away with it. At worst, they’d have to issue a mea culpa at 3AM that no one would see; at best, they could play the “Librul mee-dee-uh is out to get me!!!” card.

Unless it was something really off the rails, their job would not be in danger. Shit, look at how long Beck held on.

For all of their many faults, the other networks actually play by some set of ethics and rules.

45 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 4:41:28pm

re: #38 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Yes. But humans are weird beings :)
So, you think false memory is a possibility?

I do. Ask O.J. Simpson.

/

46 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 4:42:15pm
Don’t worry Brian, it will blow over.
47 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:42:23pm

re: #40 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Hillary Clinton and the helicopter coming under fire in Bosnia (?) is what this reminds me of. I do think false memories are possible. Hell, eyewitness testimony isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Good example. And yes, false memories are a fact (“Satanic abuse”, etc.) - I’m wondering what is more probable in Williams’ case. Maybe a mixture of the two, namely, with time he came to believe his own BS…

48 Skip Intro  Feb 4, 2015 4:42:38pm

re: #44 Mattand

The Nightly News with ChuckTodd?

No, wait, that’s just stupid. It will be The Nightly News with Luke Russert.

49 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:42:49pm

re: #44 Mattand

Thing is, a Fox News mouth breather can do something like this and get away with it. At worst, they’d have to issue a mea culpa at 3AM that no one would see; at best, they could play the “Librul mee-dee-uh is out to get me!!!” card.

Unless it was something really off the rails, their job would not be in danger. Shit, look at how long Beck held on.

For all of their many faults, the other networks actually play by some set of ethics and rules.

Bill O’Rielly got away with his lie about winning a Peabody Award for many years.

50 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:43:01pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

So, you sure you had nothing to do with taking out another prime time newscaster???

51 BeachDem  Feb 4, 2015 4:44:07pm

re: #31 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

But being serious for a second, it may be one of those infamous false memories. Memory is extremely malleable, which is one of the problems with witness testimonies - esp. with the old ones.

On the other hand, it’s such a conveniently heroic story that maybe he indeed just lied all this time.

Hey, Romney and Jeb don’t remember being bullying assholes in prep school; Brian Williams remembers things that never occurred; Newt and Pat Boone conflate old movies with current political events; Rand Paul makes “temporal” connections between vaccines and profound mental disorders.

Shit happens, dude. It’s just another day in Amurrika. //

52 Mattand  Feb 4, 2015 4:44:17pm

re: #48 Skip Intro

The Nightly News with ChuckTodd?

No, wait, that’s just stupid. It will be The Nightly News with Luke Russert.

You guys want to play that game? Top this:

The Nightly News with Chris Matthews.

Good luck sleeping tonight…

53 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:45:07pm

re: #51 BeachDem

Another day on planet Earth…

54 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 4:45:24pm
55 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 4:46:22pm

re: #48 Skip Intro

The Nightly News with ChuckTodd?

No, wait, that’s just stupid. It will be The Nightly News with Luke Russert.

I used to watch NBC Nightly News religiously. I gave up about two or so years ago and haven’t gone back.

I may sometime watch big network shows (rarely), but anymore it seems more to check out how bad it all has gotten. Big media is just mass entertainment out to sell commercials. No meat on the bones any longer.

56 Skip Intro  Feb 4, 2015 4:48:37pm

re: #55 ObserverArt

It would actually make sense for NBC to return the Russert brand to MTP, so I may have gotten things backwards.

The Nightly News with ChuckTodd it is.

57 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 4:50:22pm
58 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 4:50:44pm

NBC Nightly News with Willie Geist.

You know they are grooming him for something, though I am not sure why. I think he is just an empty jacket good at saying whatever the teleprompter displays.

59 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 4:51:09pm

re: #55 ObserverArt

Years ago, news was a separate division of the networks and was actually focused on doing real journalism.

Today, news is part of the entertainment division and is expected to make a profit. They don’t need no stinkin’ journalism.

60 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 4, 2015 4:51:11pm

“Over Macho Grande?”
“No. I don’t think I’ll ever get over Macho Grande.”

61 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:52:42pm

[Chuck Todd Nightly News] A Comet has been discovered hurtling towards the earth. The democrats are in a bind now since they have advocated for the science that discovered the comet. Will this spell doom for the Dems chances to take back The House? [/Chuck Todd Nightly News]

62 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:52:51pm

re: #58 ObserverArt

NBC Nightly News with Willie Geist.

You know they are grooming him for something, though I am not sure why. I think he is just an empty jacket good at saying whatever the teleprompter displays.

I see Willie taking over on the Today Show at some point.

63 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 4:53:30pm

It’s funny how stories like this can jog the memory. I just remembered that I was not the star child in 2001 A Space Odyssey! Been telling everyone that for years too. How embarrassing.

64 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 4:53:51pm
65 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 4:54:46pm

re: #59 A Cranky One

Years ago, news was a separate division of the networks and was actually focused on doing real journalism.

Today, news is part of the entertainment division and is expected to make a profit. They don’t need no stinkin’ journalism.

Exactly. Facts and an occasional editorial opinion is death to ratings. They are short on numbers anyway with 600 cable channels and now the internet. So, whatever sells it is.

66 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:55:00pm

This so reminds me of the Pete Hoekstra #justliketheholocaust meme from a few years ago.

67 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 4:55:33pm

re: #63 Aye Pod

It’s funny how stories like this can jog the memory. I just remembered that I was not the star child in 2001 A Space Odyssey! Been telling everyone that for years too. How embarrassing.

How embarrassing. I remember my father Czar Nicholas II saying something very similar to that.

68 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 4:55:42pm

re: #63 Aye Pod

It’s funny how stories like this can jog the memory. I just remembered that I was not the star child in 2001 A Space Odyssey! Been telling everyone that for years too. How embarrassing.

Be careful with that. Someone could make a joke about the opening sequence. (not that I would ;) )

69 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 4:56:13pm

re: #67 b.d.

How embarrassing. I remember my father Czar Nicholas II saying something very similar to that.

Anastasia, you’re alive!

70 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 4:56:59pm

I just remembered that I didn’t jam with Hendrix and Duane Allman that day, I was just listening to records.

I never would have chosen to make this mistake.

71 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 4:59:33pm

re: #36 b.d.

Forrest Gump was based off of Brian Williams’ autobiography

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

And that’s all I’m gonna say about that.

“I got shot in the butt-ocks!”

72 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:00:19pm

Remember That? No You Don’t. Study Shows False Memories Afflict Us All

In one, for example, the investigators spoke with the subjects about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and mentioned in passing the footage that had been captured of United Flight 93 crashing in Pennsylvania — footage, of course, that does not exist. In both groups — HSAM subjects and those with normal memories — about 1 in 5 people “remembered” seeing this footage when asked about it later.

“It just seemed like something was falling out of the sky,” said one of the HSAM participants. “I was just, you know, kind of stunned by watching it, you know, go down.”

73 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 5:01:12pm

re: #72 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Remember That? No You Don’t. Study Shows False Memories Afflict Us All

Interesting.

74 bratwurst  Feb 4, 2015 5:02:21pm

Here is Illinois we are blessed with a United States Senator who “misremembered” the facts he was not, in reality, part of EITHER Gulf War…nor was he ever named “Navy’s intelligence officer of the year”. Oops.

75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:02:24pm

re: #73 Sionainn

One scary example I’ve found:

A real life example of memory implantation occurred during the criminal case against Paul Ingram. Ingram was accused by his daughters of recurring sexual abuse in their childhood. Ingram denied all allegations at first but after being interviewed by police and therapists he came to remember multiple instances of abuse. Psychologist Richard Ofshe considered this confession a result of suggestive questioning and decided to test his theory. He told Ingram about a made-up scenario and said it was another accusation made by his children. Ofshe asked Ingram to try and remember as much as possible about this new event. Ingram could not recall anything straight away but after thinking about it for some time came up with a written confession where he described in detail what had happened. His children confirmed to Ofshe that the event had never actually happened, Ingram had created an entirely false memory of an event after suggestions from Ofshe. Richard Ofshe considered this successful memory implantation evidence of Paul Ingram’s suggestibility and in his opinion it questions the accuracy of Ingram’s other confessions.[12] Whether or not example is generalizable to other legal cases involving recovered memories of sexual abuse it does show how important it is to have corroborative evidence even in cases where the suspect confesses.

76 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 5:02:43pm

re: #59 A Cranky One

Years ago, news was a separate division of the networks and was actually focused on doing real journalism.

Today, news is part of the entertainment division and is expected to make a profit. They don’t need no stinkin’ journalism.

I need to watch Network again soon.

77 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 5:02:51pm

re: #60 Higgs Boson’s Mate

“Over Macho Grande?”
“No. I don’t think I’ll ever get over Macho Grande.”

Hey, that’s my line!

///

78 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:04:02pm

Wasn’t there a supreme court case recently that dealt with lying about military records, and it involved a prominent politician? I may be misremembering that.

79 The Ghost of Tonalite Gneiss  Feb 4, 2015 5:04:49pm

I had some memory problems, too, right after I was poisoned, shot, stabbed, and dropped into the icy River Neva.

80 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 5:05:04pm

re: #72 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Overheard inside the brain:

“Uh visual centre…are you there… yeah the department of internal consistency needs some video of that plane crash…”

81 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:05:07pm

re: #76 Timothy Watson

I need to watch Network again soon.

FSM don’t. It depresses the hell out of me every time I watch it. I can’t even watch documentaries about income inequality anymore without my blood pressure soaring.

82 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 5:05:35pm

re: #79 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

I had some memory problems, too, right after I was poisoned, shot, stabbed, and dropped into the icy River Neva.

Bless this icon for me, Staretz.

83 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:05:44pm

re: #79 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

I had some memory problems, too, right after I was poisoned, shot, stabbed, and dropped into the icy River Neva.

Glad to see you’re alive and well, Grisha.

84 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:07:41pm

You asked for it.

85 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 5:07:59pm

In Dave Cullen’s book “Columbine” he describes what the principal of Columbine High School went through during the massacre. Frank DeAngelis was shot at by the assailants. He was standing in front of a glass case and he vividly remembers the glass shattering and him falling down in a bunch of broken glass. He was walking to the main office to interview a prospective teacher. The last fact is key.

DeAngelis suffered PTSD something fierce in the years afterward. When he was interviewed by investigators he swore he just got done interviewing a prospective teacher before he was fired upon - remembers details, setting, what they talked about - when in fact the interview never took place. He was on his way to the interview and he got shot at.

Human memory is weird like that.

86 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:08:13pm

re: #83 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Glad to see you’re alive and well, Grisha.

I have to admit, this one went totally over my head.

The point!
87 TomP  Feb 4, 2015 5:08:18pm

re: #78 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

There was the Stolen Valor act. The first person who was convicted under it was a California board member of something. SCOTUS struck it down in 2012.

88 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 5:08:19pm

re: #74 bratwurst

Here is Illinois we are blessed with a United States Senator who “misremembered” the facts he was not, in reality, part of EITHER Gulf War…nor was he ever named “Navy’s intelligence officer of the year”. Oops.

‘Mistakes were made’

89 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:09:16pm

re: #87 TomP

There was the Stolen Valor act. The first person who was convicted under it was a California board member of something. SCOTUS struck it down in 2012.

That was the one I was thinking of. Thanks.

90 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:09:16pm

re: #75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

One scary example I’ve found:

I remember (I really do!) the daycare abuse hysteria back in the 80s and 90s. The thing I most remember is reading that children ‘remembered’ the ritual satanic sacrifice of a number of zoo animals, including giraffes. This CLEARLY did not happen, yet the prosecutors still used the kids’ obviously untrustworthy testimony.

91 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 5:10:15pm
I was going to the worst place in the world and I didn’t even know it yet. Weeks away and hundreds of miles up a river that snaked through the war like a main circuit cable plugged straight into Kurtz. It was no accident that I got to be the caretaker of Colonel Walter E. Kurtz’s memory any more than being back in Saigon was an accident. There is no way to tell his story without telling my own. And if his story really is a confession, then so is mine.

Brian Williams, The Vietnam Chronicles.

92 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 5:10:26pm
93 Romantic Heretic  Feb 4, 2015 5:10:43pm

re: #79 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

I had some memory problems, too, right after I was poisoned, shot, stabbed, and dropped into the icy River Neva.

I hope you’ve forgotten about your agreement with the Ogdru Jahad.

94 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:11:26pm

re: #90 Blind Frog Belly White

It was a shameful episode in the US jurisprudence.

95 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 5:12:05pm

re: #85 teleskiguy

In Dave Cullen’s book “Columbine” he describes what the principal of Columbine High School went through during the massacre. Frank DeAngelis was shot at by the assailants. He was standing in front of a glass case and he vividly remembers the glass shattering and him falling down in a bunch of broken glass. He was walking to the main office to interview a prospective teacher. The last fact is key.

DeAngelis suffered PTSD something fierce in the years afterward. When he was interviewed by investigators he swears he got done interviewing a prospective teacher - remembers details, setting, what they talked about - when in fact the interview never took place. He was on his way to the interview and he got shot at.

Human memory is weird like that.

Also, in the same book, the author relates the story of a boy who repeatedly misidentified the girl who prayed while Harris executed her. It wasn’t until they took him back to the library and had him go back over the story and the police told him that the girl he thought it was was on the other side of the room.

96 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:12:07pm

re: #94 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It was a shameful episode in the US jurisprudence.

Heaped on a pile of other shameful jurisprudence in the US system.

97 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 5:12:12pm

re: #92 Kragar

But Malignant Narcissism has its own soundtrack.

98 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:13:18pm

re: #94 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It was a shameful episode in the US jurisprudence.

Seriously, reading about it is a real “What the fuck?” experience.

99 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:13:33pm

re: #96 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Heaped on a pile of other shameful jurisprudence in the US system.

Correction accepted. But it was like especially stupid.

100 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:13:33pm

Regarding misremembering, I am also reminded of the CTE examples in the NFL (and the World Cup). For instance, there’s a German player who doesn’t remember a couple of DAYS! Yet he went back on the field after getting hammered in the head. The brain is a mysterious, wonderful, and at times baffling machine.

101 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 5:14:08pm

WASHINGTON, May 17— In the final minutes of his life, Adm. Jeremy M. Boorda sat down to type a letter of apology to the men and women of the United States Navy — “my sailors,” as he had always called them.

The one-page letter was a suicide note. And according to distraught colleagues who have read it, Admiral Boorda, the Chief of Naval Operations and the highest-ranking officer in the Navy, poured out his fear that a dispute over the legitimacy of two of his wartime medals would harm the already battered reputation of the Navy.

nytimes.com

1996

102 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:14:10pm

re: #98 Blind Frog Belly White

Seriously, reading about it is a real “What the fuck?” experience.

One understands how the witches’ trials arose too.

103 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 5:14:45pm

re: #76 Timothy Watson

I need to watch Network again soon.

Jerszy Kozinski was a damned visionary.

104 The Ghost of Tonalite Gneiss  Feb 4, 2015 5:15:05pm

re: #75 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

One scary example I’ve found:

Memory is terrifyingly fallible.

Studies testing accuracy in eyewitness testimony are disheartening. People are exposed to the test material, and minutes later they’re screwing up the details…big details. Like reversing who was the attacker and who was the victim.

The other thing that’s weird is how performance changes memory. When you narrate an event, you impose a structure on it that maybe wasn’t there. And if you’re trying to be clever, or funny, or drive home a point: well, the exaggerations that were hyperbole or jest the first time you tell a story, become fact as you rehearse and repeat it. And at some point your narration feels like the truth.

106 calochortus  Feb 4, 2015 5:15:28pm

A classic example of false memory is Bush remembering seeing the first plane hit the World Trade Center on 9/11. He didn’t. It wasn’t possible, but he “remembered” it. This says nothing bad about Bush, it is just a very well documented case of false memory.

Apparently it is very easy to implant false memories in young children as well, and after a few times of talking about it, they add a lot of plausible detail. I heard someone interviewed just yesterday morning. There is apparently a reason for memory being labile in that it enables us to integrate memories with other experience. But it also means eyewitnesses are not as good as we think.

107 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:15:36pm

re: #76 Timothy Watson

I need to watch Network again soon.

Scary part is how well some of it holds up:

Howard Beale: I don’t have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It’s a depression. Everybody’s out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel’s worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there’s nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there’s no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV’s while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that’s the way it’s supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They’re crazy. It’s like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don’t go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, ‘Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won’t say anything. Just leave us alone.’ Well, I’m not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don’t want you to protest. I don’t want you to riot - I don’t want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write. I don’t know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you’ve got to get mad. You’ve got to say, ‘I’m a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!’ So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, ‘I’M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!’ I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - ‘I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!’ Things have got to change. But first, you’ve gotta get mad!… You’ve got to say, ‘I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!’ Then we’ll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: “I’M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!”

Wait, I could be mis-remembering. Maybe it was Brian Williams instead of Howard Beale.

108 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:16:29pm

re: #105 TedStriker

As in Grigori Rasputin:

Thanks. I knew the story of Rasputin, but that was just outside my knowledge. :)

109 GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 4, 2015 5:17:11pm

I wasn’t actually rescued in LA and NY by Snake Plissken. It was really Patrick Swayze and the Wolverines.

110 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 5:17:57pm

re: #90 Blind Frog Belly White

I remember (I really do!) the daycare abuse hysteria back in the 80s and 90s. The thing I most remember is reading that children ‘remembered’ the ritual satanic sacrifice of a number of zoo animals, including giraffes. This CLEARLY did not happen, yet the prosecutors still used the kids’ obviously untrustworthy testimony.

That was a travesty. There was that one day care run by the McMartin family out in California that was just a rush to judgement and they were ruined by all the allegations.

111 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:18:43pm

re: #107 A Cranky One

Like I said, I don’t want to watch “Network” again. Reminds me too much of the age we live in. Also, wasn’t it Paddy Chayefsky? yes, it was: en.wikipedia.org Sidney Lumet directing.

112 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 5:19:47pm

re: #90 Blind Frog Belly White

I remember (I really do!) the daycare abuse hysteria back in the 80s and 90s. The thing I most remember is reading that children ‘remembered’ the ritual satanic sacrifice of a number of zoo animals, including giraffes. This CLEARLY did not happen, yet the prosecutors still used the kids’ obviously untrustworthy testimony.

McMartin Preschool? That was a wild case.

113 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:20:16pm
114 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 5:21:20pm

re: #95 Timothy Watson

The supposed martyrdom of Cassie Bernall. Yeah, I remember that. The killers did ask a gal if she believed in God. She survived. Cassie didn’t say anything when she died, the last words she heard were “Pee-A-Boo,” uttered by her murderer.

I was a junior in high school when that happened, Columbine was a two hour drive away. I was going steady with a gal who had just moved up to the mountains the year before, she went to Columbine before she moved. So it hit home, it really scared me when that happened.

Cullen’s book was a sort of catharsis for me. It took him ten years to write that book and he went through all sorts of bad mental health problems in the process (he says the hardest part of the book to write was Dave Saunders’ passing, the only teacher killed). It’s the definitive work that lays it all out.

What everyone wanted to know was “Why?” and “Columbine” by Dave Cullen tells you.

115 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 5:21:39pm

re: #112 makeitstop

McMartin Preschool? That was a wild case.

It also tainted a bunch of real cases.

116 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:22:29pm
117 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:22:31pm

re: #104 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

This gets esp. tough when a historian has to base his research on testimonies because everything else has been destroyed. I’m reminded of Christopher Browning’s great little book Collected Memories: Holocaust History and Postwar Testimony, where he explains the problems that are involved in this type of historiography but also offers some solutions. It boils down to the basic “the more witnesses you have, the better”. (He also offered a couple of curious examples of false memories.)

118 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:24:02pm

re: #117 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

This gets esp. tough when a historian has to base his research on testimonies because everything else has been destroyed. I’m reminded of Christopher Browning’s great little book Collected Memories: Holocaust History and Postwar Testimony, where he explains the problems that are involved in this type of historiography but also offers some solutions. It boils down to the basic “the more witnesses you have, the better”. (He also offered a couple of curious examples of false memories.)

Fortunately, the Germans kept a lot of meticulous records, and those tattoos don’t wash off.

119 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 5:24:47pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

It’ll last until the right wing realizes they are agreeing with the left. At that moment, they’ll start defending Williams and will find “evidence” of his harrowing escape from death.

120 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:25:10pm

re: #90 Blind Frog Belly White

I remember (I really do!) the daycare abuse hysteria back in the 80s and 90s. The thing I most remember is reading that children ‘remembered’ the ritual satanic sacrifice of a number of zoo animals, including giraffes. This CLEARLY did not happen, yet the prosecutors still used the kids’ obviously untrustworthy testimony.

Dale Akiki from San Diego.

en.wikipedia.org

121 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:25:33pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

That was a travesty. There was that one day care run by the McMartin family out in California that was just a rush to judgement and they were ruined by all the allegations.

They were actually the first in a string, and much of it was built on leading interrogations of children, essentially browbeating preschoolers into agreeing with and eventually believing they’d seen all manner of things.

Mrs. BFBW is a big fan of ‘sciencey’ shows about perception and other brain-related stuff (you can tell I’m a scientist by how I talk!). One in particular was very revealing. It was about eyewitness testimony. They secretly set up an event with a few actors at some public place, filmed the whole thing surreptitiously, and then asked people to tell them what happened. They also had OTHER actors among the ‘witnesses’ who sneakily poisoned other witness’s memories. In the end, some witnessed remembered very clearly things that were demonstrably untrue.

Yes, memory is strange and not necessarily trustworthy.

122 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:26:04pm

re: #94 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It was a shameful episode in the US jurisprudence.

He looked a little weird. They ran with it.

123 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:27:15pm

re: #96 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Heaped on a pile of other shameful jurisprudence in the US system.

What our fellow citizens are dealing with day by day.

(catching up on comments here)

124 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:27:15pm

re: #121 Blind Frog Belly White

They were actually the first in a string, and much of it was built on leading interrogations of children, essentially browbeating preschoolers into agreeing with and eventually believing they’d seen all manner of things.

Mrs. BFBW is a big fan of ‘sciencey’ shows about perception and other brain-related stuff (you can tell I’m a scientist by how I talk!). One in particular was very revealing. It was about eyewitness testimony. They secretly set up an event with a few actors at some public place, filmed the whole thing surreptitiously, and then asked people to tell them what happened. They also had OTHER actors among the ‘witnesses’ who sneakily poisoned other witness’s memories. In the end, some witnessed remembered very clearly things that were demonstrably untrue.

Yes, memory is strange and not necessarily trustworthy.

There was also relatively recently, a study done in which people walked through a conversation, and the test subject didn’t even notice they’d walked through (that is a huge simplification, obviously, but hopefully gets to your point).

125 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 5:27:43pm

re: #121 Blind Frog Belly White

They were actually the first in a string, and much of it was built on leading interrogations of children, essentially browbeating preschoolers into agreeing with and eventually believing they’d seen all manner of things.

Mrs. BFBW is a big fan of ‘sciencey’ shows about perception and other brain-related stuff (you can tell I’m a scientist by how I talk!). One in particular was very revealing. It was about eyewitness testimony. They secretly set up an event with a few actors at some public place, filmed the whole thing surreptitiously, and then asked people to tell them what happened. They also had OTHER actors among the ‘witnesses’ who sneakily poisoned other witness’s memories. In the end, some witnessed remembered very clearly things that were demonstrably untrue.

Yes, memory is strange and not necessarily trustworthy.

MythBusters did this one too, IIRC.

126 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:28:05pm

re: #100 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Regarding misremembering, I am also reminded of the CTE examples in the NFL (and the World Cup). For instance, there’s a German player who doesn’t remember a couple of DAYS! Yet he went back on the field after getting hammered in the head. The brain is a mysterious, wonderful, and at times baffling machine.

Hello! The dreams I have. Bizarre & epic.

127 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:28:55pm

re: #123 #FergusonFireside

What our fellow citizens are dealing with day by day.

(catching up on comments here)

Indeed. Speaking of, we are having some speakers come to speak to us about covering Ferguson soon. I admitted today in class that I thought it had sort of disappeared off the radar (bread and circuses, as we know). What’s the situation like there atm. These are journalists from STL. Anything we should ask in particular?

128 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 5:30:50pm

re: #114 teleskiguy

The supposed martyrdom of Cassie Bernall. Yeah, I remember that. The killers did ask a gal if she believed in God. She survived. Cassie didn’t say anything when she died, the last words she heard were “Pee-A-Boo,” uttered by her murderer.

I was a junior in high school when that happened, Columbine was a two hour drive away. I was going steady with a gal who had just moved up to the mountains the year before, she went to Columbine before she moved. So it hit home, it really scared me when that happened.

Cullen’s book was a sort of catharsis for me. It took him ten years to write that book and he went through all sorts of bad mental health problems in the process (he says the hardest part of the book to write was Dave Saunders’ passing, the only teacher killed). It’s the definitive work that lays it all out.

What everyone wanted to know was “Why?” and “Columbine” by Dave Cullen tells you.

It’s definitely an interesting book and covers a lot: inept policing and the department’s cover up after the fact, the media which got pretty much everything wrong, etc.

129 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:32:00pm

re: #118 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Fortunately, the Germans kept a lot of meticulous records, and those tattoos don’t wash off.

Germans kept meticulous records, but lots of those records are lost for obvious reasons, and however meticulous they may be, they don’t tell the side of the victims. Moreover, they’re useless for writing history of small camps like Starachowice, where there is next to no documentation. In that case the testimonies of ~170 survivors (plus some perpetrator interrogations) are all that historians have. But despite the overall problematic nature of eyewitness testimony, it still can be done.

130 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 5:33:05pm

Just reviewed a bit of the McMartin trial at WikiPedia for some basics. Said it was the most expensive trial in the U.S. at the time. It stated the investigation ran from 1984 to 1987, and the trial ran from 1987 to 1990.

Can you imagine having your life hang in the balance all that time?

131 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:33:39pm
132 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 5:33:57pm

re: #128 Timothy Watson

It’s definitely an interesting book and covers a lot: inept policing and the department’s cover up after the fact, the media which got pretty much everything wrong, etc.

And let’s not forget the vocal Evangelicals going around saying “She Said YES!” And also the magnificent work by FBI Agent Duane Fuselier.

133 Romantic Heretic  Feb 4, 2015 5:34:18pm

re: #104 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

One of the books in my library is Killer by ‘Joey’. He was a hitter for The Mob. Thirty five kills; thirty two for money and three for revenge. Don’t blame him for the revenge part.

In it he mentions one of his hits. He walked into a popular restaurant during the lunch rush, plugged his victim and walked out again.

There were over thirty witnesses. Each of them gave a different description and none of them looked like him. (He saw the police report later.)

134 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:34:39pm

re: #130 ObserverArt

Just reviewed a bit of the McMartin trial at WikiPedia for some basics. Said it was the most expensive trial in the U.S. at the time. It stated the investigation ran from 1984 to 1987, and the trial ran from 1987 to 1990.

Can you imagine having your life hang in the balance all that time?

I’m sure the prosecutors don’t lose any sleep about all of this.

135 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 5:36:00pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

You people make me SICK! You’re all disgusting and depraved!

/∞

136 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:36:53pm

re: #127 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Indeed. Speaking of, we are having some speakers come to speak to us about covering Ferguson soon. I admitted today in class that I thought it had sort of disappeared off the radar (bread and circuses, as we know). What’s the situation like there atm. These are journalists from STL. Anything we should ask in particular?

Do they think the presence of journalists made things better or worse?

Related, did the presence of cameras affect how people acted?

Was there any evidence that the police treated news organizations differently?

Did the need to have something “new” to report result in taking the focus off the main story?

What surprised them most about their time in Ferguson?

137 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:38:32pm

re: #127 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Indeed. Speaking of, we are having some speakers come to speak to us about covering Ferguson soon. I admitted today in class that I thought it had sort of disappeared off the radar (bread and circuses, as we know). What’s the situation like there atm. These are journalists from STL. Anything we should ask in particular?

Wow! Do you follow @deray & @Nettaaaaaaaa on twitter? Also @akacharleswade. There are many others who will give you the questions to ask. They were on the ground. From day one.

If that is not what you are looking for, elaborate.

138 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:39:19pm
139 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:40:13pm

Ima going to catch up on some good tweets from today. Apologies if posted already.

140 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:40:29pm
141 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:41:28pm

Autism Speaks says Vaccinate!

142 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:42:13pm

re: #140 #FergusonFireside

Is that Brian Williams on the album cover? /////

143 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:42:36pm

re: #142 A Cranky One

Is that Brian Williams on the album cover? /////

He’s the one with the shawl.

144 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:43:23pm

re: #142 A Cranky One

Is that Brian Williams on the album cover? /////

That is the most epic album.

You young’uns need to download it and listen to it.

145 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 5:43:58pm

re: #141 #FergusonFireside

Autism Speaks says Vaccinate!

[Embedded content]

Probably run by a bunch of radical liberal feminists so you can’t trust them. They have agendas.

///

146 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:45:55pm

This is why there’s a new version of the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet tonight. You may want to update - otherwise if you open the bookmarklet window on a YouTube page it will just hang.

147 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:46:31pm

re: #144 #FergusonFireside

That is the most epic album.

You young’uns need to download it and listen to it.

Ah, you’re so sweet. I haven’t been called a young’un in many decades ;)

148 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 5:48:41pm

re: #137 #FergusonFireside

Do you have an e-mail? I have the name of the outlet. It’s not the P-D. I’d just rather keep it on the downlow, if you know what I mean.

149 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 5:48:51pm

re: #90 Blind Frog Belly White

I remember (I really do!) the daycare abuse hysteria back in the 80s and 90s. The thing I most remember is reading that children ‘remembered’ the ritual satanic sacrifice of a number of zoo animals, including giraffes. This CLEARLY did not happen, yet the prosecutors still used the kids’ obviously untrustworthy testimony.

Straight out of the Salem Witch Trials.

150 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:49:29pm
151 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:50:01pm

re: #144 #FergusonFireside

That is the most epic album.

You young’uns need to download it and listen to it.

Actually, I saw them perform it live. Lindsey is a great guitarist.

Almost as good as Brian Williams!

152 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 5:50:26pm

This should keep Chuck busy until Derby Day since Williams has been anchor for over a decade.

Williams’s? I thought Chuck was a genius?

153 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 5:50:49pm
154 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:51:51pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The editorial, the royal, or the schizophrenic ‘we’?

155 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 5:52:28pm

re: #152 b.d.

This should keep Chuck busy until Derby Day since Williams has been anchor for over a decade.

[Embedded content]

Williams’s? I thought Chuck was a genius?

Wrong. He’s a SOOPER genius.

156 The Ghost of Tonalite Gneiss  Feb 4, 2015 5:52:58pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

The editorial, the royal, or the schizophrenic ‘we’?

First person hivemind plural

157 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 5:53:41pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

His “remote” eh? That’s what he’s calling it these days eh? /

158 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:54:01pm

re: #145 ObserverArt

Probably run by a bunch of radical liberal feminists so you can’t trust them. They have agendas.

///

(Actually, they’re one side of the rift in the autism community I was mentioning yesterday. Many autistic folks find their talk of the need for a cure and other similar things to be dehumanizing. Still since they represent a lot of parents of autistic children, it’s good to see such a definitive statement.)

159 Jenner7  Feb 4, 2015 5:54:07pm

re: #148 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Not FF, but here’s a couple:

wetheprotesters.org

thisisthemovement.launchrock.com

I’m dumb…

and tired..

160 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:54:34pm

re: #152 b.d.

Williams’s? I thought Chuck was a genius?

What do you mean?

161 Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 4, 2015 5:54:39pm

re: #156 The Ghost of the Vanishing Commissar

First person hivemind plural

We are the Bored.

162 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 5:55:21pm

re: #144 #FergusonFireside

That is the most epic album.

You young’uns need to download it and listen to it.

I was always partial to the earlier Mac stuff. And I think my all time favorite Mac album was Bare Trees when Bob Welch was in the band. And I liked the raw guitar chops of earlier Mac music, songs like Oh Well and Black Magic Woman personify the period mixed in with old blues standards and the like.

I can see why the Buckingham Nicks version worked so well though. They were a supremo pop band and had a hell of a run. Lindsey is fine guitar player too. Just a bit too pop for my tastes.

163 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 5:56:03pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

164 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 4, 2015 5:56:06pm

re: #152 b.d.

This should keep Chuck busy until Derby Day since Williams has been anchor for over a decade.

[Embedded content]

Williams’s? I thought Chuck was a genius?

“Now, Chucky, show us on the doll where the human touched you.”

165 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 5:57:21pm

re: #148 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Do you have an e-mail? I have the name of the outlet. It’s not the P-D. I’d just rather keep it on the downlow, if you know what I mean.

Better if you are on twitter, follow ea other, then i can give you my real email, i cannot set up another fake. Buried. I will never get away, that’s for sure.

166 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:58:20pm

So when is Chuck’s suit against Politico?

167 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 5:58:37pm

re: #166 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

There should be a counter or something.

168 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 5:58:53pm

re: #160 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

What do you mean?

If the word already ended in an “s”, you only need an apostrophe for the possessive. Sticking another “s” on after it is illiterate. Not as illiterate as putting an extraneous apostrophe into the possessive pronoun, but still….genius.

169 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 5:59:16pm

re: #160 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

What do you mean?

I forsee an argument about the use of an apostrophe after a nonplural word ending in an S.

170 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 5:59:24pm

Zedushka always insisted that he watched the assassination of JFK on TV. He came to the realization that this was impossible because:

1) The motorcade was not televised
2) He was in class taking an exam at the time this actually happened

Because Americans were glued to their TV sets for days on end following the JFK assassination many people came to believe that the assassination itself was on TV.

171 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 5:59:29pm

The Guardian really has a funny way with headlines sometimes - check this one:

Vaping may not be as safe as smokers think, research suggests

I was a bit alarmed when I read this because I’ve just convinced myself that there’s no way they can be anywhere near as harmful as cigarettes. The article begins:

E-cigarettes generate toxic chemicals similar to those found in tobacco and may harm the lungs and immune system, new research suggests.

Tucked away at the bottom of the piece though, is this :

E-cigarettes generated just 1% of the amount of free radicals in tobacco smoke, but this still posed a potential health risk, said the researchers.

“We were surprised by how high that number was, considering that e-cigarettes do not produce combustion products,” said Dr Sussan. “Granted, it’s 100 times lower than cigarette smoke, but it’s still a high number of free radicals that can potentially damage cells.”

So the big scary worse-than-we-thought fact about vapers is that they are, if this research is correct, potentially one hundredth as damaging as cigarettes! The Guardian thinks it is serving the public health interest by persuading people not to switch to an alternative because it’s only 100 times less harmful. WTF?

172 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 6:00:27pm

re: #160 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

What do you mean?

I was calling bs on his using an ‘s on Williams’ last name but that is acceptable. But Chuck IS a genius and he will even be smarter after rewatching every newscast that Williams has done since 2004. (and the 1993-1999 weekend newscasts)

173 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:00:33pm

re: #168 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

If the word already ended in an “s”, you only need an apostrophe for the possessive. Sticking another “s” on after it is illiterate. Not as illiterate as putting an extraneous apostrophe into the possessive pronoun, but still….genius.

Nope, it’s a standard version.

Robin Williams’s Widow and Children Tangle Over Estate

en.wikipedia.org

Many respected authorities recommend that practically all singular nouns, including those ending with a sibilant sound, have possessive forms with an extra s after the apostrophe so that the spelling reflects the underlying pronunciation. Examples include Oxford University Press, the Modern Language Association, the BBC and The Economist.[19] Such authorities demand possessive singulars like these: Senator Jones’s umbrella; Tony Adams’s friend.

174 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 6:00:47pm

re: #166 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

He’s got a laundry list of suits that he has yet to file (mostly because it costs nothing to threaten a suit, but a whole lot more to actually go through with one). Mostly because he’s a wannabe stand-up philosopher bullshit artist masquerading as a journalist.

175 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 6:01:38pm

re: #167 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

There is.

chuckcjohnson.info

176 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 6:01:50pm

Forgot the link to that story : theguardian.com

177 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:01:52pm

re: #162 ObserverArt

Sorry, just had to do it.

178 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:01:53pm

re: #140 #FergusonFireside

This was the beginning of Mick Fleetwood’s quest to completely obliterate his nasal septum.

179 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:01:54pm

re: #165 #FergusonFireside

Better if you are on twitter, follow ea other, then i can give you my real email, i cannot set up another fake. Buried. I will never get away, that’s for sure.

cool. Will do.

180 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:03:10pm

re: #151 A Cranky One

Actually, I saw them perform it live. Lindsey is a great guitarist.

Almost as good as Brian Williams!

Lucky you. I’ve been in love with Mr. Buckingham since 1977.

Listening now to I don’t wanna know. Loud.

181 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:03:18pm

re: #175 lawhawk

There is.

chuckcjohnson.info

It doesn’t count the number of days that have passed since his Politico threat.

182 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:04:30pm

re: #162 ObserverArt

Yah, the earlier versions of Fleetwood Mac were much more bluesy and less pop. Losing Bob Welch really changed their sound. Bare Trees is also a favorite of mine, as is Future Games.

Too bad Bob isn’t around anymore.

183 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:04:36pm

re: #158 Blind Frog Belly White

(Actually, they’re one side of the rift in the autism community I was mentioning yesterday. Many autistic folks find their talk of the need for a cure and other similar things to be dehumanizing. Still since they represent a lot of parents of autistic children, it’s good to see such a definitive statement.)

Absolutely.

184 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:15pm

re: #178 Charles Johnson

This was the beginning of Mick Fleetwood’s quest to completely obliterate his nasal septum.

Heh…

As far as pre-Nicks/Buckingham Mac goes, I’ve always liked this:

185 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:21pm
186 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:22pm

re: #171 Aye Pod

The Guardian really has a funny way with headlines sometimes - check this one:

I was a bit alarmed when I read this because I’ve just convinced myself that there’s no way they can be anywhere near as harmful as cigarettes. The article begins:

Tucked away at the bottom of the piece though, is this :

So the big scary worse-than-we-thought fact about vapers is that they are, if this research is correct, potentially one hundredth as damaging as cigarettes! The Guardian thinks it is serving the public health interest by persuading people not to switch to an alternative because it’s only 100 times less harmful. WTF?

I remember in the early days of ABS brakes, a teaser for the 11:00 news said something like “Antilock brakes may do more harm than good—film at 11.”

If you watched the show, it turned out that the first time a lot of people had the ABS actually work, and heard the pump groan or felt the pulsation in the brake pedal, they went “What the Hell is that?” and jerked their foot off the brake, plowing into what they were avoiding. Instead of “People are stupid, film at 11.” their headline was “ABS brakes are no good.”

187 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:35pm

re: #140 #FergusonFireside

[Embedded content]

Great album. (#stevieistherealnextsupreme)

188 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:36pm
189 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 6:05:40pm

Where, exactly, would one find a copy of every Brian Williams newscast?

190 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:06:03pm

re: #165 #FergusonFireside

Can you give me a hint. I looked under your Uname and also #FergusonFireside, and found nothing. My search foo sucks.

191 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:06:43pm

re: #185 Kragar

shart. ugh.

192 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 6:07:28pm

re: #189 b.d.

Where, exactly, would one find a copy of every Brian Williams newscast?

LexisNexis? But I doubt he has a couple thousand dollars to get access.

193 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:07:45pm

re: #189 b.d.

Where, exactly, would one find a copy of every Brian Williams newscast?

More importantly, who is crazy enough to go through all the copies for nothing?

194 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:08:09pm

re: #192 Timothy Watson

LexisNexis? But I doubt he has a couple thousand dollars to get access.

Which is why we have libraries ;) Although don’t give the libertarians any ideas.

195 Usually refered to as anyways  Feb 4, 2015 6:08:42pm

Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac - Need your love so bad.
Youtube Video

196 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:08:47pm

re: #184 TedStriker

Heh…

As far as pre-Nicks/Buckingham mac goes, I’ve always liked this:

[Embedded content]

Add ‘em all up and there were a lot of great Fleetwood Mac songs to choose from.

197 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:08:59pm

re: #193 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

More importantly, who is crazy enough to go through all the copies for nothing.

You could, if you were enterprising, do a word search, possibly a semantic analysis of similar phrases, but yeah, it would basically be a dry well.

198 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:09:01pm

re: #193 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

More importantly, who is crazy enough to go through all the copies for nothing?

Reminds me of the “the jerkstore called” Seinfeld episode.

199 William Barnett-Lewis  Feb 4, 2015 6:09:07pm

re: #178 Charles Johnson

This was the beginning of Mick Fleetwood’s quest to completely obliterate his nasal septum.

True enough.

And yet, it’s one of the few “mainstream” albums of that era I can stand to listen to from end to end.

200 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:09:14pm

re: #171 Aye Pod

The Guardian really has a funny way with headlines sometimes - check this one:

I was a bit alarmed when I read this because I’ve just convinced myself that there’s no way they can be anywhere near as harmful as cigarettes. The article begins:

Tucked away at the bottom of the piece though, is this :

So the big scary worse-than-we-thought fact about vapers is that they are, if this research is correct, potentially one hundredth as damaging as cigarettes! The Guardian thinks it is serving the public health interest by persuading people not to switch to an alternative because it’s only 100 times less harmful. WTF?

There’s a really weird freak out about something that has made smokers of cigarettes quit.

Kinda think Big Tobacco is behind it.

201 Aye Pod  Feb 4, 2015 6:09:30pm

Ah well, beddy byes time here.

202 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:09:35pm

re: #197 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

You could, if you were enterprising, do a word search, possibly a semantic analysis of similar phrases, but yeah, it would basically be a dry well.

If one knows what to search for…

203 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:10:36pm
204 unproven innocence  Feb 4, 2015 6:10:42pm

re: #170 The Vicious Babushka

Zedushka always insisted that he watched the assassination of JFK on TV. He came to the realization that this was impossible because:

1) The motorcade was not televised
2) He was in class taking an exam at the time this actually happened

Because Americans were glued to their TV sets for days on end following the JFK assassination many people came to believe that the assassination itself was on TV.

The assassination of Oswald was broadcast live.

205 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 6:11:37pm

re: #185 Kragar

[Embedded content]

206 b_sharp  Feb 4, 2015 6:13:00pm

Is it okay to finally admit I helped Kublia Khan defeat the Song Dynasty by showing him how to build trebuchets?

207 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 4, 2015 6:14:26pm

208 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:14:35pm

re: #206 b_sharp

Is it okay to finally admit I helped Kublia Khan defeat the Song Dynasty by showing him how to build trebuchets?

I thought you were told never to speak of that again. Deep background. :)

209 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:15:02pm

re: #187 Aye Pod

Great album. (#stevieistherealnextsupreme)

Ah, I read an interview recently where Stevie said she would not write a memoir, because she’d hurt the 20-30 year old new wives of her former lovers.

Ka Boom.

210 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 6:15:51pm

re: #173 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Nope, it’s a standard version.

Robin Williams’s Widow and Children Tangle Over Estate

en.wikipedia.org

Well, I completely disagree.

211 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:16:03pm

Gettin’ into all the Fleetwood tunes and hadn’t realized a band of snow is dumping on Columbus. Doesn’t appear to be too big…maybe we get an inch.

212 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:16:20pm

re: #190 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Can you give me a hint. I looked under your Uname and also #FergusonFireside, and found nothing. My search foo sucks.

@michellevista

So sorry for the lack of clarity here!

213 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:16:27pm
214 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 6:16:59pm

WTF
Wingnuts are spamming this meme
I don’t know who this guy is in the photo but it’s not King Abdullah

215 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:17:19pm

re: #206 b_sharp

Is it okay to finally admit I helped Kublia Khan defeat the Song Dynasty by showing him how to build trebuchets?

So…IT WAS YOU!!!

216 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:17:56pm

re: #210 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Well, I completely disagree.

No problem, it’s still a fact :)

217 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:18:09pm

re: #184 TedStriker

Now I’ve got that song stuck in my head. And the ex has my copy of the album. <shakes fist>

218 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:18:43pm

re: #212 #FergusonFireside

followed. I’ll DM you with details if that’s ok.

219 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:19:09pm

re: #217 A Cranky One

Now I’ve got that song stuck in my head. And the ex has my copy of the album. <shakes fist>

This is why there is YouTube and Spotify. :)

220 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:19:17pm

If you want to know an LGF contributor’s Twitter handle, just click on their icon. If they’ve linked their Twitter account to LGF, you’ll see this button:

221 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:19:20pm

re: #217 A Cranky One

Now I’ve got that song stuck in my head. And the ex has my copy of the album. <shakes fist>

That song is full of great hooks and little pop ditties. If you liked it, you know it for ever.

222 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:20:48pm

re: #220 Charles Johnson

If you want to know an LGF contributor’s Twitter handle, just click on their icon. If they’ve linked their Twitter account to LGF, you’ll see this button:

[Embedded image]

Thanks for that heads up. I did not realize that, being a young lizard.

223 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:21:51pm

re: #219 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

This is why there is YouTube and Spotify. :)

Yah but I want to hear it on my good system. Loud.

First world problems ;)

224 piratedan  Feb 4, 2015 6:22:45pm

so for the sake of argument, what mistake would Brian Williams preferred to have made?

225 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:23:13pm

Finally got to Christine McVie Songbird. ahhhhhhhhhhh

226 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:23:18pm

re: #223 A Cranky One

Yah but I want to hear it on my good system. Loud.

First world problems ;)

Being mostly deaf in one ear takes care of that for me. :)

227 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:24:16pm

re: #205 TedStriker

[Embedded content]

Mr. Hankey is Upchucks “inside source”.

228 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 6:29:33pm

re: #177 ObserverArt

Sorry, just had to do it.

I’ll see you that Fleetwood Mac, and raise you this one.

229 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:31:20pm

re: #227 A Cranky One

Mr. Hankey is Upchucks “inside source”.

BRAIN BLEACH! STAT!

230 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:32:49pm

re: #214 The Vicious Babushka

It is Abdullah, but I’m not sure what the wingnuts’ point is. He’s still a Muslim.

231 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:35:07pm

re: #228 makeitstop

I’ll see you that Fleetwood Mac, and raise you this one.

[Embedded content]

Oh yeah…I have The Green Manalish Live Sweden playing in the background right now!

God, I forgot how good Peter Green and Danny Kirwan were together.

Edit to add: Your song is up next. It has suddenly turned to Mac night for me. Thanks Lizards…you made this.

232 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 6:36:14pm

re: #173 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Nope, it’s a standard version.

Robin Williams’s Widow and Children Tangle Over Estate

en.wikipedia.org

They are all wrong. Period.

233 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:37:36pm

re: #232 Sionainn

They are all wrong. Period.

Who is wrong about what?

234 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:37:39pm

Dang it, listening to good music is preventing me from getting my cranky on. How rude.

235 b_sharp  Feb 4, 2015 6:40:00pm

re: #234 A Cranky One

Dang it, listening to good music is preventing me from getting my cranky on. How rude.

Don’t fret, the cranky will return.

236 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 6:40:16pm

Speaking of FM, I had no idea “dreams” was the name of this song.

237 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:40:36pm

Mick Fleetwood played on the demo of a band I started in the late 80s. We almost got a record deal, but industry politics killed it.

238 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 6:41:20pm

re: #232 Sionainn

They are all wrong. Period.

I’m with you. I was taught that the second ‘s’ was incorrect.

239 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:41:47pm

re: #238 makeitstop

I’m with you. I was taught that the second ‘s’ was incorrect.

You were taught wrong.

240 thedopefishlives  Feb 4, 2015 6:42:56pm

I work too hard. Not only did I keep myself late at work this afternoon trying frantically to fix the build and get everything operating together for tonight’s round of work from our offshore team, but I also spent a couple of hours working at home to finish off a few lingering technical details. Ugh. Why do I have to be this way.

241 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:43:18pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

Mick Fleetwood played on the demo of a band I started in the late 80s. We almost got a record deal, but industry politics killed it.

Do you think the biz is better now? Because the music of now sucks. iMHO

242 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 6:44:21pm

re: #233 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Who is wrong about what?

They are wrong about the apostrophe “s” at the end of a name ending in “s”.

Link

243 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 6:44:35pm

re: #239 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

You were taught wrong.

Yeah, no. Think what you want.

244 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 6:46:54pm

re: #228 makeitstop

I’ll see you that Fleetwood Mac, and raise you this one.

[Embedded content]

Oh man I love that one. I first heard it in a documentary about the French guy who tightwalked across the Twin Towers n the early 70’s. Such a trippy song.

245 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 6:47:30pm

re: #242 Sionainn

Rule 2d.

246 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:47:36pm

re: #241 #FergusonFireside

It’s only gotten worse since then.

247 wrenchwench  Feb 4, 2015 6:47:39pm

re: #243 makeitstop

Yeah, no. Think what you want.

I think I’m with Sergey on this.

248 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 6:48:20pm

Listened to the whole album. Dammit, over before i knew it. Too short, too classic.

Imma going to replay loud on my recently unearthed bose ipod sound jack.

Seriously, that is a fine sound system.

249 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 6:48:40pm

re: #230 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It is Abdullah, but I’m not sure what the wingnuts’ point is. He’s still a Muslim.

HURR HURR THIS IS A REAL MAN!!!! NOT LIKE OBUMMUH WHOS ALL GHEY & THROWS LIKE A GIRL!!!!!!

Wingnuts also love that photo op of GWB in his “Mission Accomplished” flight suit HURR HURR REAL MANLY MAN!!!11!!!

250 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:49:02pm

Hey Charles, quick question.

One of the things I enjoy about live music is watching the guitarists play. Always learn a lot.

But saw Clapton play with Doyle Bramhall II. Doyle plays left handed on a right-handed strung guitar. Watching him did strange things to my head, it seemed like everything was backwards and upside down. Didn’t seem to bother Clapton though.

Have you ever played with a lefty playing a right-handed strung guitar and did it affect you the same way?

251 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 6:49:56pm

re: #246 Charles Johnson

It’s only gotten worse since then.

Bieber.

QED.

252 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:50:01pm

Chicago Manual of Style:

Q. When indicating possession of a word that ends in s, is it correct to repeat the s after using an apostrophe? For example, which is correct: “Dickens’ novel” or “Dickens’s novel”?

A. Either is correct, though we prefer the latter.

chicagomanualofstyle.org

New Yorker

AP

WaPo

NYRB

NYT

Sorry, but there is simply no debate. Not only both versions are correct, the one with extra s is the preferred one.

253 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 6:50:24pm

re: #251 The Vicious Babushka

Bieber.

QED.

Bieber sucks but there’s a lot of good indie bands out there.

254 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:50:30pm

re: #243 makeitstop

Yeah, no. Think what you want.

It’s not a matter of opinion.

255 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 6:52:13pm

re: #249 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR THIS IS A REAL MAN!!!! NOT LIKE OBUMMUH WHOS ALL GHEY & THROWS LIKE A GIRL!!!!!!

Wingnuts also love that photo op of GWB in his “Mission Accomplished” flight suit HURR HURR REAL MANLY MAN!!!11!!!

Case in point:

256 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 6:52:32pm

re: #254 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s not a matter of opinion.

I’ll go with what my teachers taught me. Again, think what you want.

257 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 6:52:38pm


I liked this song that was on Shameless the other night.

258 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 6:53:20pm

Y’all can write like Chuck C if you wish.

//

259 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 6:53:54pm

Yeah, editors allow actual, printed books and newspapers to get away with complete illiteracies such as leaving the article off of “The Ukraine” and “The Sudan”, etc. Doesn’t make it acceptable.

260 Great White Snark  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:10pm

So…. About that Brian Williams apology “sorry I was in the helicopter following the one that got hit, landed spent two harrowing nights in the Iraqi desert”… Credible?

261 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:16pm

re: #256 makeitstop

I’ll go with what my teachers taught me. Again, think what you want.

And again, your teachers taught you wrong. It’s not simply my opinion. See above.

262 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:18pm

re: #258 b.d.

Y’all can write like Chuck C if you wish.

//

Doesn’t that require a lobotomy?

263 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:23pm
264 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:38pm

re: #241 #FergusonFireside

Do you think the biz is better now? Because the music of now sucks. iMHO

The music biz sucks. The music is still good. Just damn hard to find.

In my opinion there is still a ton of great music out there. Heck, a lot of the stuff put up by Charles and members here is damn good. There just isn’t the focus on trying to turn people on to it as much as possible like it used to be.

Sometime about 1980 the whole music world blew up with the intro of MTV. Never been the same since. Appearance became more important than talent. BOOM!!!

So what you get now are appearances of talent. The talented people are struggling to keep busy and do what they love. It’s sad.

And with that…I think I am going to go play some guitar before racking out. Later. And may everyone have remembrances of dreams of great achievements and death-defying stunts…that never happened, but damn, they seemed real.

ANd then you have Disney and other big companies pushing out the pre-teen pablu

265 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:54:43pm

re: #259 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yeah, editors allow actual, printed books and newspapers to get away with complete illiteracies such as leaving the article off of “The Ukraine” and “The Sudan”, etc. Doesn’t make it acceptable.

You do know what Chicago Manual of Style is, right?

266 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 6:55:35pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Water wet, says Poseidon.

267 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 6:56:08pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s the guy who everyone is claiming will be canned any moment?

Time to go ahead and talk frankly?

268 b_sharp  Feb 4, 2015 6:56:31pm

re: #252 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Chicago Manual of Style:

New Yorker

AP

WaPo

NYRB

NYT

Sorry, but there is simply no debate. Not only both versions are correct, the one with extra s is the preferred one.

That’s what I was taught.

However I prefer to leave off the final ‘s’.

269 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:57:01pm

re: #268 b_sharp

Me too. ;)

270 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 6:57:01pm

re: #261 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

And again, your teachers taught you wrong. It’s not simply my opinion. See above.

Nobody gives a rat’s ass about The Chicago Manual of Style. What’s next? Quoting Strunk & White on Grammar? (There would be a “LOL” here if I could bring myself to say “LOL”)

271 thedopefishlives  Feb 4, 2015 6:57:18pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Dayum. Talk about stepping up to the plate.

272 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 6:57:51pm

re: #270 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Nobody gives a rat’s ass about The Chicago Manual of Style.

LOL. If that’s the level of your argument…

273 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 6:59:02pm

re: #272 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

LOL. If that’s the level of your argument…

So that’s a yes? Strunk & White is next?

274 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 6:59:34pm

re: #268 b_sharp

One of the things I heard was that, since writing is used to communicate spoken word, you put the s after the apostrophe if you say the extra s. I say James’s dog, not James’ dog, so I put the apostrophe.

275 William Barnett-Lewis  Feb 4, 2015 6:59:43pm

re: #253 HappyWarrior

Bieber sucks but there’s a lot of good indie bands out there.

Thanks be to god for that fact. There’s some great folks working the byways around here - Kevin Bowe & The Okemah Prophets, Molly & the Danger Band, Communist Daughter, just to name a couple. I don’t listen to much commercial radio anymore so I don’t have to think of the bland kiddie rock. I’d rather think of these guys or the bands I grew up with - The Clash, The Who, Television, Patti Smith, BOC, Ramones, Husker Du, The Replacements, X, and so on instead.

I can’t wait to get my Telecaster and start bashing out some good old Joe Strummer rhythm guitar…

276 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 6:59:53pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

re: #266 HappyWarrior

Water wet, says Poseidon.

re: #267 b.d.

That’s the guy who everyone is claiming will be canned any moment?

Time to go ahead and talk frankly?

Talk is cheap.

When Twitter performs any substantive action on this front, then that’ll be something.

277 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:00:16pm

re: #252 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Chicago Manual of Style:

New Yorker

AP

WaPo

NYRB

NYT

Sorry, but there is simply no debate. Not only both versions are correct, the one with extra s is the preferred one.

I learned AP, not Chicago Manual.

AP versus Chicago Manual

278 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:00:25pm

It’s interesting how people will stick to the ingrained errors that they had been taught even when you prove with authoritative sources that they’re wrong and even though they have no arguments to rely on except that they had been so taught (which isn’t any kind of argument in the first place).

279 ObserverArt  Feb 4, 2015 7:00:44pm

I remember something before logging out.

Justanotherhuman, if you are out there reading…hope you are doing okay with your fight with the flu! Take care!

Watch that crap. My buddy that I jam with on Friday nights missed last week feeling real bad. I got an email from him early yesterday…he’s down and out with a mild walking pneumonia probably from the flu attacking him according to his docs. Won’t see him this week either. Which sucks. Friday night jams are my religion!

280 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 7:00:50pm

re: #273 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

So that’s a yes? Strunk & White is next?

So, now I can’t tell if your BS-ing or not (or is that just BSing, or maybe BS’ing).

281 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:01:14pm

re: #273 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

For your education:

The Chicago Manual of Style (abbreviated in writing as CMS or CMOS [the version used on its website], or, by some speakers as Chicago) is a style guide for American English published since 1906 by the University of Chicago Press. Its sixteen editions have prescribed writing and citation styles widely used in publishing. It is “one of the most widely used and respected style guides in the United States”.[1] CMOS deals with aspects of editorial practice, from American English grammar and use to document preparation.

282 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 7:01:31pm

re: #278 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s interesting how people will stick to the ingrained errors that they had been taught even when you prove with authoritative sources that they’re wrong and even though they have no arguments to rely on except that they had been so taught (which isn’t any kind of argument in the first place).

I know some people who do that with climate change.

283 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 7:02:06pm
284 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 7:02:21pm

re: #278 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s interesting how people will stick to the ingrained errors that they had been taught even when you prove with authoritative sources that they’re wrong and even though they have no arguments to rely on except that they had been so taught (which isn’t any kind of argument in the first place).

What in the bloody hell do you think is “authoritative” about The Chicago Manual of Style?

285 bratwurst  Feb 4, 2015 7:02:22pm

We are really getting snippy about possessive apostrophe usage?

Change of subject: anyone else read this rather devastating takedown of the Neil Young sponsored Pono audio player?

I wasn’t going to buy one anyway and have to re-purchase music for the third or 4th time…I’d be happy if Apple would simply resume making iPods larger than 64GB.

286 b.d.  Feb 4, 2015 7:02:36pm

Chicago Manual of Style?!?!?

So they call it Da Bears’s instead of Da Bears’?

//

288 lawhawk  Feb 4, 2015 7:03:36pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

If it’s hurting their bottom line, it mustn’t be hurting that badly, or else they’d have been doing a better job of getting rid of the harassers, doxxers, trolls, and those who repeatedly violate the TOS. You know, like Chuckles. He’s a grade-A example of a repeat TOS offender, who has shuffled through the Twitter revolving door suspension system.

And each time he comes back and does more of the same.

289 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 7:04:21pm

This thread needs a theme song.

290 wrenchwench  Feb 4, 2015 7:04:31pm

re: #285 bratwurst

We are really getting snippy about possessive apostrophe usage?

Change of subject: anyone else read this rather devastating takedown of the Neil Young sponsored Pono audio player?

I wasn’t going to buy one anyway and have to re-purchase music for the third or 4th time…I’d be happy if Apple would simply resume making iPods larger than 64GB.

I’ve always hated Neil Young and loved apostrophes.

291 goddamnedfrank  Feb 4, 2015 7:05:13pm

re: #261 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

And again, your teachers taught you wrong. It’s not simply my opinion. See above.

They weren’t wrong. The teachers taught the standard style practice of the time, which has since evolved. Just like they used to teach putting two spaces after the period at the end of a sentence.

292 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 7:05:18pm

I used MLA for most of my ciationsre: #285 bratwurst

We are really getting snippy about possessive apostrophe usage?

Change of subject: anyone else read this rather devastating takedown of the Neil Young sponsored Pono audio player?

I wasn’t going to buy one anyway and have to re-purchase music for the third or 4th time…I’d be happy if Apple would simply resume making iPods larger than 64GB.

I love Neil and Neil’s music but he’s going to flop big time with this. I’m with you. No desire at all to repurchase music again. And yeah Apple erally needs to re-release a MP3 player larger than 64 GBs. The iPod classic is a great concept but they could update it. There really isn’t a MP3 out there for us people who want a pure music player. I don’t mind apps but I don’t need them on my music player. I put them on my phone or tablet.

293 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:05:25pm

re: #277 Sionainn

I learned AP, not Chicago Manual.

AP versus Chicago Manual

Yeah, it’s a recommendation. It doesn’t say it’s incorrect.

294 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 7:05:32pm

re: #278 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s interesting how people will stick to the ingrained errors that they had been taught even when you prove with authoritative sources that they’re wrong and even though they have no arguments to rely on except that they had been so taught (which isn’t any kind of argument in the first place).

re: #284 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

What in the bloody hell do you think is “authoritative” about The Chicago Manual of Style?

Are you two seriously going to have a knock-down, drag-out fight over apostrophes and such?

SMDH…

295 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:06:20pm

re: #214 The Vicious Babushka

WTF
Wingnuts are spamming this meme
I don’t know who this guy is in the photo but it’s not King Abdullah

[Embedded content]

They cite CNN. CNN isn’t showing it.

296 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:06:29pm

re: #278 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

It’s interesting how people will stick to the ingrained errors that they had been taught even when you prove with authoritative sources that they’re wrong and even though they have no arguments to rely on except that they had been so taught (which isn’t any kind of argument in the first place).

Say what? I’ve posted APA which backs up what I said. Chicago Manual of Style does something different. BFD. Talk about sticking to “ingrained errors.”

297 b_sharp  Feb 4, 2015 7:06:55pm

Children stop squabbling. I’m trying to listen to my favourite soap.

Bring me a beer, dammit.

298 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:07:18pm

re: #294 TedStriker

Are you two seriously going to have a knock-down, drag-out fight over apostrophes and such?

SMDH…

Christians killed each other over an iota.

299 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:07:28pm

re: #284 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

What in the bloody hell do you think is “authoritative” about The Chicago Manual of Style?

Cite your authoritative sources. Don’t cite your teacher though.

300 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 7:08:07pm

re: #292 HappyWarrior

I used MLA for most of my ciations

I love Neil and Neil’s music but he’s going to flop big time with this. I’m with you. No desire at all to repurchase music again. And yeah Apple erally needs to re-release a MP3 player larger than 64 GBs. The iPod classic is a great concept but they could update it. There really isn’t a MP3 out there for us people who want a pure music player. I don’t mind apps but I don’t need them on my music player. I put them on my phone or tablet.

Was…Apple killed the iPod Classic last year.

301 RealityBasedSteve  Feb 4, 2015 7:08:25pm

Hey gang,

Just dropping in, what have I missed beside upChuck proving once again that there is no low he can’t slide under. That and the grammar wars.

RBS

302 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 7:08:31pm

re: #255 The Vicious Babushka

Case in point:

[Embedded content]

Bush put his balls in a stirrup. Our supreme leader.

303 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 7:09:10pm

re: #300 TedStriker

Was…Apple killed the iPod Classic last year.

I know. I was pissed about that. I got my latest one just last year after my old one of four years stopped working. They really need to update the classic for more space and bells and whistles. That or at the very least put more space on the touch.

304 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:09:10pm

re: #296 Sionainn

Say what? I’ve posted APA which backs up what I said. Chicago Manual of Style does something different. BFD. Talk about sticking to “ingrained errors.”

The claim was that ‘s is incorrect. APA doesn’t back that up, it just has a different preference. The claim that extra s is incorrect is itself incorrect.

305 bratwurst  Feb 4, 2015 7:09:14pm

re: #290 wrenchwench

I’ve always hated Neil Young and loved apostrophes.

Well I’ve always loved Neil Young and hated apostrophes…so there!

I just continue to be pissed about feeling like I am being forced to adopt streaming as my primary method of music consumption. Call me a troglodyte, I like having my very own library and not having to spend a moment thinking about an internet connection to enjoy it.

306 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 7:09:40pm

re: #299 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Cite your authoritative sources. Don’t cite your teacher though.

Sionainn already has—but the basic answer is “everyone but TCMoS.”

307 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 7:09:49pm

Okay, I’m tired of arguments about apostrophes.

Let’s discuss commas!

308 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:10:07pm

re: #281 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

For your education:

For your education:

APA style is a format for academic documents such as journal articles and books. It is codified in the style guide of the American Psychological Association (APA), titled the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. The APA states that the guidelines were developed to assist reading comprehension in the social and behavioral sciences, for clarity of communication, and for “word choice that best reduces bias in language”.[1][2] APA style is widely used, either entirely or with modifications, by hundreds of other scientific journals (including medical and other public health journals), in many textbooks, and in academia (for papers written in classes). Along with AMA style and CSE style, it is one of the major style regimes for such work. Many publications have small local style guides that cascade over AMA, APA, or CSE style in a way analogous to how inline styles in HTML cascade over CSS styles (for example, “follow APA style unless otherwise specified herein” or “for issues not addressed herein, follow APA style”). Link

309 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 7:10:12pm

re: #214 The Vicious Babushka

According to the Jerusalem Post, it’s an image taken from his facebook account: jpost.com.

310 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:12:24pm

For decades, I had to write to the requirements of an Army Regulation—not only authoritative, but authoritarian.

311 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:12:55pm

re: #306 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Sionainn already has

I said authoritative sources, “grammarbook” is hardly one such source.

—but the basic answer is “everyone but TCMoS.”

I have already shown that everyone who counts uses ‘s with abandon. Including, ironically, AP.

312 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 7:13:05pm

re: #214 The Vicious Babushka

WTF
Wingnuts are spamming this meme
I don’t know who this guy is in the photo but it’s not King Abdullah

[Embedded content]

Actually it is Abdullah but he’s not flying any combat sorties, wingnuts just loves ‘em some MANLY MAN!!!11!!1!! photo ops

313 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 7:13:07pm

re: #305 bratwurst

Well I’ve always loved Neil Young and hated apostrophes…so there!

I just continue to be pissed about feeling like I am being forced to adopt streaming as my primary method of music consumption. Call me a troglodyte, I like having my very own library and not having to spend a moment thinking about an internet connection to enjoy it.

Yeah, I’m a total “Brainwashed” Apple fan (according to the Microsoftie-Fandroid press), but I depart completely from them with this “download only/streaming audio-video” model. They’re jumping the gun on that by not years but decades. (And by using the plural, I don’t mean just two.)

314 Great White Snark  Feb 4, 2015 7:13:09pm

re: #283 Charles Johnson

Hey revenue source-Lease him a few monitor lizards. Win-Win!

315 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:13:10pm

re: #309 Belafon

facebook.com

316 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:14:15pm

re: #304 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

The claim was that ‘s is incorrect. APA doesn’t back that up, it just has a different preference. The claim that extra s is incorrect is itself incorrect.

If one learned APA style, then it is incorrect. ;-)

317 The Vicious Babushka  Feb 4, 2015 7:14:15pm
318 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 7:14:44pm

re: #291 goddamnedfrank

They weren’t wrong. The teachers taught the standard style practice of the time, which has since evolved. Just like they used to teach putting two spaces after the period at the end of a sentence.

Exactly.

320 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:15:01pm

re: #307 A Cranky One

Okay, I’m tired of arguments about apostrophes.

Let’s discuss commas!

Oxford.

321 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 7:16:07pm

re: #288 lawhawk

Yes, but Chuck is just one small part of an issue that Twitter has been ignoring for way too long.

322 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:16:09pm

re: #320 Sionainn

Oxford.

Haley’s’s

323 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:16:31pm

re: #311 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

I said authoritative sources, “grammarbook” is hardly one such source.

I have already shown that everyone who counts uses ‘s with abandon. Including, ironically, AP.

Interesting, because that’s the exact book I had to get when I started college for my writing classes.

324 Great White Snark  Feb 4, 2015 7:16:38pm

We used to have grammar drama. I didn’t miss it.

325 goddamnedfrank  Feb 4, 2015 7:17:12pm
The Associated Press (AP) and Modern Language Association (MLA) call for only the apostrophe when the noun ends in S - Kansas’, Arkansas’, boss’, and rowboats’. But Strunk & White and the current Chicago Manual of Style (CMS) prefer the apostrophe S for all uses - Kansas’s, Arkansas’s, boss’s, and rowboats’s. But at least these guides offer a blanket rule. Other guides provide more convoluted advice.

What they taught us in grad school was that you were supposed to pick a style guide and stick with it. The options were Chicago, Modern Language Association and American Psychological Association. We wrote a stupid little essay in one of our documentation classes saying why we chose the one we did and everything in our Thesis from our apostrophe usage to our citations needed to be done in that particular style.

326 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:17:27pm

re: #316 Sionainn

If one learned APA style, then it is incorrect. ;-)

It’s not incorrect. It’s simply not preferred or used. But when another person uses it, it’s not a mistake.

327 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:17:45pm

re: #322 Decatur Deb

Haley’s’s

Commas, not comets, man. Get with the program.////

328 Sionainn  Feb 4, 2015 7:18:47pm

re: #325 goddamnedfrank

What they taught us in grad school was that you were supposed to pick a style guide and stick with it. The options were Chicago, Modern Language Association and American Psychological Association. We wrote a stupid little essay in one of our documentation classes saying why we chose the one we did and everything in our Thesis from our apostrophe usage to our citations needed to be done in that particular style.

I didn’t have a choice. The university chose APA for me.

329 goddamnedfrank  Feb 4, 2015 7:20:19pm

I don’t think the extra s is incorrect.

I do think it usually looks awkward, but that’s subjective.

330 wrenchwench  Feb 4, 2015 7:20:44pm

re: #305 bratwurst

I like having my very own library and not having to spend a moment thinking about an internet connection to enjoy it.

Well, we agree there!

331 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:20:55pm

re: #327 Sionainn

Commas, not comets, man. Get with the program.////

Comets’ have comases.

332 thedopefishlives  Feb 4, 2015 7:21:29pm

re: #321 Charles Johnson

Yes, but Chuck is just one small part of an issue that Twitter has been ignoring for way too long.

Yeah, the stalkers have certainly been around longer than His Royal Chuckness. And there are certainly instances of abuse that predate the stalkers, if we cared to look.

333 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:21:56pm

re: #329 goddamnedfrank

I don’t think the extra s is incorrect.

You’re illiterate!

/

334 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 7:22:24pm

I have the it’s v its on my cube wall. I read it and follow it, but was told recently I fucked it up. I give up.

335 Decatur Deb  Feb 4, 2015 7:22:33pm

re: #329 goddamnedfrank

I don’t think the extra s is incorrect.

I do think it usually looks awkward, but that’s subjective.

You should put the “s” in apostrophes.

336 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 7:24:38pm

re: #325 goddamnedfrank

The rule I heard was put an ‘s if you say an ‘s, Like in “James’s dog,” and don’t use it when you wouldn’t say it, like “Dickens’ novel”.

As for the comma, I like the Oxford comma. I would also like it if punctuation never went inside “”, because I like one simple rule, and the statement:

Did I hear John say “Really?”

can be ambiguous.

Edit: I’m getting tired; I essentially wrote the first part earlier.

337 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 4, 2015 7:25:08pm

Speaking of stalkers and their victims….

338 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Feb 4, 2015 7:25:21pm

Going to sleep, Lizardem. May the force be with you.

339 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:34:15pm

Hehe.

340 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:41:26pm

oxforddictionaries.com

An apostrophe and s are generally used with personal names ending in an s, x, or z sound:

Charles’s

Thomas’s

Marx’s

Bridget Jones’s Diary

but an apostrophe alone may be used in cases where an additional s would cause difficulty in pronunciation, typically after longer names that are not accented on the last or penultimate syllable:
Nicholas’ or Nicholas’s

Lord Williams’s School

341 goddamnedfrank  Feb 4, 2015 7:41:54pm

re: #325 goddamnedfrank

I went with Chicago Style because MLA and APA have moved away from traditional footnotes to parenthetical citation, which is worse than Hitler.

342 CuriousLurker  Feb 4, 2015 7:43:51pm

He “misremembered the events”? Oh, how I despise that weaselly euphemism.

343 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 7:46:16pm

re: #342 CuriousLurker

He “misremembered the events”? I despise that weaselly euphemism.

How the hell do you “misremember” about being on a helicopter that was sht down? I mean damn I can see missing up small details but something like that. What’s sad is I actually usually like Williams but he just comes off like a real jackass here.

344 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Feb 4, 2015 7:48:27pm

re: #340 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

oxforddictionaries.com

They left out Jesus’, generally written without a trailing s.

345 makeitstop  Feb 4, 2015 7:48:42pm

re: #342 CuriousLurker

He “misremembered the events”? Oh, how I despise that weaselly euphemism.

But he never would have chosen to make that mistake.

///

346 CuriousLurker  Feb 4, 2015 7:51:33pm

re: #343 HappyWarrior

How the hell do you “misremember” about being on a helicopter that was sht down? I mean damn I can see missing up small details but something like that.

Exactly. I might “misremember” what I had for lunch last week, but most certainly NOT being shot down in a helicopter, FFS.

What’s sad is I actually usually like Williams but he just comes off like a real jackass here.

Same here. *sigh*

347 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 4, 2015 7:53:06pm

re: #322 Decatur Deb

Haley’s’s

That comet has a tail!

348 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 7:54:25pm

re: #346 CuriousLurker

CL, take a look at this case. I guess some people are so suggestible that they begin to remember something that never happened. Not saying this is the case here, but can’t outright exclude it either.

349 HappyWarrior  Feb 4, 2015 7:56:15pm

re: #346 CuriousLurker

Exactly. I might “misremember” what I had for lunch last week, but most certainly NOT being shot down in a helicopter, FFS.

Same here. *sigh*

Right you misremember something like yeah lunch the previous week but something like being shot down in a helicopter. Uh no.

350 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 7:56:55pm
351 Belafon  Feb 4, 2015 7:57:12pm

John Cole, at the other political site I like, goes in the other direction: balloon-juice.com. Based on his experience in Iraq, he says it can be tough to separate events, especially heated ones like in a war zone. He also includes Williams’s facebook post about screwing up.

352 CuriousLurker  Feb 4, 2015 7:57:26pm

re: #348 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Ah, yes—I’ve read about that case before.

353 jaunte  Feb 4, 2015 7:57:54pm

re: #322 Decatur Deb

Haley’s’s

Cometses, Precious.

354 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 7:58:23pm

re: #169 Timothy Watson

I forsee an argument about the use of an apostrophe after a nonplural word ending in an S.

355 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:03:57pm

re: #351 Belafon

I must say, Williams’ ;) post looks sincere to me. Human memory is so malleable that I don’t have much of a trouble accepting that this might not have been a grand lie but rather a brain fuckup.

356 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 8:06:59pm

I’m having a hard time believing this was an honest mistake. Brian Williams isn’t just a random guy on the street, he’s a reporter who’s been trained for many years to accurately recount details. It just doesn’t ring true to me that he would “misremember” something this dramatic.

357 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 8:09:00pm

re: #355 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

I must say, Williams’ ;) post looks sincere to me. Human memory is so malleable that I don’t have much of a trouble accepting that this might not have been a grand lie but rather a brain fuckup.

Fog of war.

I’ve always seen him as an old school real journalist.

Everyone will have an opinion, and that is absolutely appropriate.

358 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:11:30pm

re: #356 Charles Johnson

That’s a strong point. But as a reporter he would also know that you don’t lie about something like this, especially when lots of witnesses are alive and can call you out. His FB explanation at least has a ring of truth to it, esp. how he found his own writing with the true description of the incident.

359 Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 4, 2015 8:13:28pm

Haaretz is running with that Abdullah story and photo too.

Funny thing is, Google seems to indicate that photo has been around since at least last year.

360 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:14:59pm

re: #359 Eclectic Cyborg

I posted the link to the photo on the official facebook page above.

361 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 8:15:34pm

He’s not just misremembering something he saw happen, folks. He’s misremembering an incredibly traumatic incident that he supposedly was part of - being in a helicopter that was shot down and had to make a crash landing.

False memories happen, but not about things like this.

362 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:17:47pm

re: #359 Eclectic Cyborg

Haaretz is running with that Abdullah story and photo too.

Funny thing is, Google seems to indicate that photo has been around since at least last year.

BTW Google will sometimes show random dates. E.g. I ran the search right now with the upper limit of 01.01.2015, a list with older dates came up.

E.g.:

73 × 73 - Jul 27, 2012

But if one actually clicks on the link, the photo is not there:

363 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 8:19:36pm

Interlude. I will not stop going back to this amazing Cars vid.

Can you imagine being there?

364 Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 4, 2015 8:19:41pm

re: #362 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Interesting, I didn’t know that.

365 #FergusonFireside  Feb 4, 2015 8:20:28pm

RIP Ben Orr.

366 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 8:20:49pm

I might misremember a conversation I had on an airplane with a seat partner. I am most definitely NOT going to misremember a plane crash. That’s what we’re talking about here. A helicopter crash is a terrifying thing.

367 Lidane  Feb 4, 2015 8:22:26pm

*cough*

368 LastYearsMan  Feb 4, 2015 8:22:49pm

Dropping the extra “s” after the apostrophe is only for double sibilants; not for just any word that ends with an “s”.

Eg: Moses’ law.

Although Princess’ vs. princess’s is more disputed.

Ah, crap. You guys already figured that out. Sorry.

369 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:24:13pm

re: #366 Charles Johnson

You and I might not, because we’re not suggestible types. But neither won’t we “remember” abusing someone just because such a scenario has been suggested to us by someone. I, for one, cannot imagine that I would create such a false memory. And yet it happens with some people. Maybe it’s all a big lie, or maybe Williams is one of those types.

370 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 8:25:38pm
371 Lidane  Feb 4, 2015 8:28:06pm

re: #370 Kragar

So their answer to not having to cover birth control is to deny coverage for ALL maternity care?

Seems legit.

372 Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 4, 2015 8:28:39pm

re: #370 Kragar

But remember, these people are Pro-LIFE!

373 jaunte  Feb 4, 2015 8:29:08pm

re: #370 Kragar

GOP plan: more births, less maternity coverage. Seems legit.

374 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 8:29:53pm

re: #369 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD

Sorry, I just can’t buy this at all. Brian Williams isn’t some newbie, fresh off the boat.

375 Timothy Watson  Feb 4, 2015 8:31:36pm

LOL

Wingnuts have been pushing for a Article V constitutional convention for awhile to propose amendment to stop those wasically liberals.

But now, from an e-mail the Virginia “Campaign for Liberty” sent out:

The Virginia Legislature is considering legislation to allow radical left-wing progressives, like billionaires George Soros and anti-gun Michael Bloomberg, to tamper with the U.S. Constitution.

That’s why it’s critical you call your representatives and demand they vote NO on any bill to call an Article V Constitutional Convention.

Wingnuts are so paranoid they’re now opposed to the very idea they were promoting a couple years ago.

376 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 8:47:03pm

Charles is certainly correct that a traumatic event such as a crash would create very specific intense memories of the incident (assuming no medical trauma or severe emotional/mental trauma). I’ve been in several cars that were totaled and can easily recall specifics of the event, including the sight of the other car coming towards me.

But human memory is a very funny thing. I can believe that Brian embellished a story for dramatic effect or to make a point during a speech and then repeated it enough times over the years that it became “true” to him. His motive might not have been malicious or selfish and it may not reflect an ethical lapse of magnitude.

But as Charles notes such a terrifying event would leave intense memories. If Brian can’t recall specifics of the event and there was no trauma to prevent him remembering, then he should acknowledge the story isn’t true.

And I believe he has done so. So the only question is should the story be considered a deliberate lie or not. Yes, you can argue that it wasn’t true and was therefore a lie, but I think the situation is a little more gray than that. There is a “fog of war” where terrifying events happen so frequently that memory becomes unreliable, and memories can get jumbled.

While I’m generally ambivalent about Brian Williams, I’m not ready to assign sinister motives to his telling of the story.

377 Prof. Backpfeifengesicht, PhD  Feb 4, 2015 8:50:29pm

Some general info about the malleability of memory.

Not saying that this proves something about the Williams case.

378 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 8:52:00pm

Pro-lifer logic:

You must carry a every pregnancy to term, even when it risks the life of the mother or if the child will be born with serious and debilitating handicaps.

Conversely, you should skip proven vaccines which protect against deadly, debilitating diseases because you believe in bullshit mumbo jumbo and think raising an autistic kid is the worst thing that could ever happen to you.

Words can’t express the utter contempt I hold for these people.

379 teleskiguy  Feb 4, 2015 8:54:43pm

Oh vey the Twitter shit I’m reading in LGF comments. Oh vey!!!

380 Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 4, 2015 8:57:17pm

re: #373 jaunte

GOP plan: more births, less maternity coverage. Seems legit.

The Churches will look after them!

381 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 4, 2015 9:03:44pm

I think, in general, my afternoon was better for having missed the apostrophe drama.

Next time, I vote you all have it over commas, because comma drama is much more alliterative.

382 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 9:04:03pm

re: #376 A Cranky One

Whether the memories are specific or not, it stretches credulity to the breaking point that he would have a false memory of being in a helicopter crash. That’s just not something you would imagine, if you had never been in a helicopter crash.

Sorry, but I’m not buying this at all.

383 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 4, 2015 9:07:10pm

I could swear, up and down, that I have a real and true memory of being 15 feet from a cloud to ground lightning strike in my driveway when I was 4 years old. I remember distinct details, down to the (completely impossible) reaction I had of running into the house and burying my face in the pillows of our sofa.

It’s all complete and utter bullshit, and best I can tell I managed to conflate a dream sequence with reality.

However, because I am an adult, I recognize this and don’t go around claiming that I have been 15 feet from a lightning strike.

I do, however, use it as a cautionary reminder of why memory can be so fucked up and should not necessarily be taken at face value.

384 Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 4, 2015 9:10:57pm

This whole apostrophe schism reminds me of one of my favourite scenes from the move Shattered Glass:

385 Lidane  Feb 4, 2015 9:15:47pm

I used to believe I had a memory of being a soldier in a past life. I saw myself on a burning battlefield while spectators watched from a distance. It felt real. The images were pretty clear. These days I know it was just a very vivid dream.

OTOH, my mom can tell you what she was wearing the day my family’s car accident happened. She remembers talking to the paramedics and giving information to them. Trauma can sear memories in your head.

386 Kragar  Feb 4, 2015 9:19:15pm

re: #381 klystron

I think, in general, my afternoon was better for having missed the apostrophe drama.

Next time, I vote you all have it over commas, because comma drama is much more alliterative.

,,,,,

387 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 9:22:10pm

Oh great. Just what this thread needed. Boy George references :)

388 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 4, 2015 9:31:39pm

re: #376 A Cranky One

There is a “fog of war” where terrifying events happen so frequently that memory becomes unreliable, and memories can get jumbled.

I don’t remember the details of every time we came under direct fire. I sure as hell remember the first time. I don’t remember every time someone shot a hole in our fiberglass hull. I do remember when an RPG booby trap sank the son of a bitch.

Williams knowingly and repeatedly lied. Period. He stole something from those men and women whose helicopters were shot out of the sky.

389 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 9:32:47pm
390 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 9:36:42pm
391 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 9:40:34pm

re: #388 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I don’t remember the details of every time we came under direct fire. I sure as hell remember the first time. I don’t remember every time someone shot a hole in our fiberglass hull. I do remember when an RPG booby trap sank the son of a bitch.

Williams knowingly and repeatedly lied. Period. He stole something from those men and women whose helicopters were shot out of the sky.

Yup.

392 Charles Johnson  Feb 4, 2015 9:44:15pm
393 A Cranky One  Feb 4, 2015 9:44:26pm

re: #388 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I don’t think there is any dispute that Brian wasn’t in a helicopter that was shot down. I was just thinking about what motive he might have to lie and about how stories get embellished over time.

But I hadn’t considered your point about how it dishonors those who did experience such an event. I agree that it does.

394 TedStriker  Feb 4, 2015 10:03:31pm

re: #388 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I don’t remember the details of every time we came under direct fire. I sure as hell remember the first time. I don’t remember every time someone shot a hole in our fiberglass hull. I do remember when an RPG booby trap sank the son of a bitch.

Williams knowingly and repeatedly lied. Period. He stole something from those men and women whose helicopters were shot out of the sky.

Brown water navy?

395 Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 5, 2015 3:53:24am
396 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Feb 5, 2015 4:31:12am

re: #395 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Very modest of him to just be Command Module Pilot.

397 Higgs Boson's Mate  Feb 5, 2015 6:44:21am

re: #394 TedStriker

Brown water navy?

Yep. Down near the southernmost mouth of the Mekong river.


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