Obama Decides Not to Use the Word ‘Genocide’ - Leading Chuck C. Johnson to Praise Hitler

The hirsute hate-monger praises Hitler for “recognizing Armenian genocide”
World • Views: 28,564

President Obama is being attacked from all sides for deciding not to use the word “genocide” when he speaks this Friday about the murders of more than a million Armenians by Ottoman Turks in the early 20th century. Armenians are especially upset, of course, but right wing media and politicians are seizing on this to accuse Obama of hypocrisy, because in his 2008 presidential campaign he vowed to recognize the Armenian genocide.

But as usual with decisions like this, there’s a political reason that has to do with the current situation in the Middle East.

After the meeting with Armenian American groups, White House officials released a statement that did not use the word “genocide.” The statement from National Security Council spokeswoman Bernadette Meehan said the U.S. would use the anniversary of the onset of the massacres to “urge a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts that we believe is in the interest of all parties.”

A senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity to comment on a diplomatically delicate issue, said the White House expects Obama to mark “the historical significance” of the Meds Yeghern, as the massacres are known in Armenian.

“We know and respect that there are some who are hoping to hear different language this year. We understand their perspective,” the official said.

But, the official added, “the approach we have taken in previous years remains the right one, both for acknowledging the past, and for our ability to work with regional partners to save lives in the present,” a reference to U.S. hope for cooperation from Turkey, particularly in the civil war in Syria.

Yes, it’s disappointing that real world politics prevents the Obama administration from using the word “genocide,” but on the other hand they’re strongly urging the Turkish government to acknowledge the truth about their involvement in this massive crime against humanity. This is the difference between running for President and being the President; campaign promises are easy to make, but once in office the reality of foreign policy sometimes necessitates difficult and controversial political choices.

Meanwhile, our stalker pal Chuck C. Johnson is latching onto this issue and attacking President Obama with a series of grotesque tweets that starkly illustrate Chuck’s historical ignorance.

Notice that he puts the word “genocide” in quotes when referring to Darfur.

Chuck’s hero Ted Cruz has already jumped on this opportunity to bash Obama, of course. But here’s where Johnson really goes off the rails:

Did Hitler really “recognize the Armenian genocide?” Well, yes, but of course he didn’t use the word “genocide.” And as a matter of historical fact, Hitler wasn’t really “recognizing” the genocide — he was inspired by it. He reportedly cited the killings of Armenians in a statement to his generals in 1939, as a reason to believe the world would do nothing about his planned campaign of terror and murder against Poland:

Referring to the Armenian Genocide, the young German politician Adolf Hitler duly noted the half-hearted reaction of the world’s great powers to the plight of the Armenians. After achieving total power in Germany, Hitler decided to conquer Poland in 1939 and told his generals: ‘Thus for the time being I have sent to the East only my ‘Death’s Head Units’ with the orders to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish race or language. Only in such a way will we win the vital space that we need. Who still talks nowadays about the Armenians?’

So when Chuck unfavorably compares Obama to Hitler, he’s missing the entire point of Hitler’s bloodthirsty reference to the Armenians.

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302 comments
1 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 22, 2015 11:44:16am

How many of these wingnut outrages have been over semantics?

Kind of sad that with so many real issues facing America today this is the kind of stuff we get pissed off about.

2 nearly-headless smith25  Apr 22, 2015 11:51:36am

Think Progress:
What Dr. Oz Teaches Us About Americans’ Unhealthy Relationship With Science

I never really liked Dr. Oz, and feel that he feed into a bunch of Americans being all stupid about science. But as a Government teacher he just infuriated me…

The man who calls himself “America’s doctor” has recently found himself at the center of a considerable controversy over his scientific credibility. Dr. Mehmet Oz, best known for his very popular television show and his enthusiastic endorsements from Oprah Winfrey, recorded a special episode of his show this week to speak directly to his critics. Oz wants his detractors to know that he “will not be silenced.”

In a preview clip for Thursday’s show, Oz retorts that his critics are trying to tread on his First Amendment rights. “I know I’ve irritated some potential allies in our quest to make America healthy. No matter our disagreements, freedom of speech is the most fundamental right we have as Americans. And these 10 doctors are trying to silence that right,” he says.

Did Oz get his degree from a school where Sarah Palin teaches Civics? Getting pretty damn tired of people being criticized saying that people are taking away or trying to take away their freedom of speech. If the government is not taking your freedom of speech away, then you are just being criticized. Suck it up Buttercup.

3 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 11:54:45am

Easy for an armchair pundit or even someone who’s in Congress to claim that Turkey should recognize and admit to the Armenian genocide. It’s a different story as president. You have to take into account that Turkey is a critical country re: Syria, Iran, and the Middle East in general. Not only is it a NATO member, but it is directly affected by what’s going on in neighboring countries. We have to tune our discussion and rhetoric accordingly.

The Armenian genocide is nearly a century ago.

We are trying to prevent the ongoing democide in Syria. 300,000+ have already died, and millions more displaced. There’s no sign the conflict in Syria is going to end anytime soon. Stopping it from becoming even worse is key. That means holding your nose and overlooking the Armenian genocide in order to get the current Turkish leaders on board with coalition efforts to stop Assad.

All the while, the fact remains that if we attack Assad, we inadvertently assist ISIL; and by attacking ISIL, we assist Assad. Neither is good, so we again have to go with the least bad option. Containing Assad while going after ISIL.

But the body count will continue to pile up, and it’s just a meaningless statistic to people like Chuckles (he of the floor pooping 150+ IQ, just exploring different views tweedledom).

4 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 11:54:50am

Charles, this statement has not been authenticated, and many historians hold it to be a fake.

5 Lord Of The Pies  Apr 22, 2015 11:57:18am

re: #4 Nyet

Charles, this statement has not been authenticated, and many historians hold it to be a fake.

A good rule to follow is: If you see a Hitler quote on the Internet, it is probably fake.

6 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 11:58:13am

re: #2 nearly-headless smith25

Losing his job at Columbia isn’t infringing on his free speech. He’s free to shill all the BS he wants - but not as a professor of medicine at a prestigious medical school. He’s peddling BS from homeopathy to herbal supplements that are unsupported by any credible science.

He’s a surgeon - and could be an excellent one for all I know, but I wouldn’t want him doing any surgeries for me or my family - not when he’s peddling all this bs (to make a buck). Besides, with all the time he spends with his show, how can he do any of his actual medical duties and fulfill his medical responsibilities?

Oh, and he’s another pox on the medical landscape courtesy of Oprah. But I digress.

7 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 11:58:42am

Same basic story, two different headlines:

Ted Cruz Showed Eloquence, and Limits, as Debater at Princeton

Ted Cruz Was the College Debate Prick’s College Debate Prick

8 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 11:59:46am

re: #7 freetoken

Same basic story, two different headlines:

Ted Cruz Showed Eloquence, and Limits, as Master Debater at Princeton FTFY /sniggering teen mode

Ted Cruz Was the College Debate Prick’s College Debate Prick

9 HappyWarrior  Apr 22, 2015 12:00:59pm

It’s unfortunate he won’t call it as such but Chuck is just doing his usual concern trolling. As if he actually gives a crap about the Armenian people and what happened to them 100 years ago.

10 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 12:01:51pm

More wingnut on wingnut action:

Conservative evangelical leader investigates pro-gay tendencies of Republican candiates [sic]

The conservative evangelical leader of the American Renewal Project is planning to investigate the pro-gay tendencies of Republican candidates for the White House, along with the views of their staff and spouses.

David Lane wants to expose senior Republican politicians who secretly support gay marriage, abortion and other issues traditionally associated with a liberal or left-wing platform.

[…]

11 Dr Lizardo  Apr 22, 2015 12:02:45pm

re: #3 lawhawk

Interestingly, Erdogan now thinks it’s time to launch a major ground offensive in Syria and Iraq to deal with Da’esh once and for all.

A land operation is necessary to support air operations in Syria and Iraq if the military operation against the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) is to be successful, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoᇺn has said.

“I don’t believe that airstrikes are sufficient to defeat Daesh [ISIL] in Syria and Iraq. A ground offensive is needed along with airstrikes so that air operations can be successful,” Erdoᇺn said on April 22 at a joint press conference with Iraqi President Fuad Masum.

Turkey has been providing support to Iraq as part of efforts to fight ISIL and will continue to do so, he said. Yet, a “comprehensive and global strategy” is needed to defeat ISIL, Erdoᇺn said, adding that even if the group is destroyed, something else will emerge under a different name.

“Where do its weapons and financing come from? We need to focus on this,” he said. Erdoᇺn also questioned the role of ISIL fighters coming from non-Muslim countries.

The Turkish president likened ISIL to a “virus aiming to destroy ummah [the Islamic community].”

My theory is this - and it’s just my theory.

Turkey was using ISIS as a cat’s-paw against the PKK and the PYD; however, something in that equation has now changed, and as far Erdogan is concerned, Da’esh have now outlived their usefulness and it’s time for them to catch the night train to the big adios.

12 HappyWarrior  Apr 22, 2015 12:03:49pm

re: #10 freetoken

More wingnut on wingnut action:

Conservative evangelical leader investigates pro-gay tendencies of Republican candiates [sic]

This is exactly why the right is fucked. ZOMG SECRETLY PRO GAY AIDES. CAN’T HAVE THAT IN OUR PARTY. They deserve to die a political death when they have people like David Lane with considerable influence in their party.

13 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:03:59pm

re: #4 Nyet

Charles, this statement has not been authenticated, and many historians hold it to be a fake.

More historians believe it’s genuine than fake: Obersalzberg Speech.

14 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:04:29pm

re: #5 Lord Of The Pies

A good rule to follow is: If you see a Hitler quote on the Internet, it is probably fake.

This quote and the document it came from was used as evidence in the Nuremberg trials.

15 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:05:05pm

re: #5 Lord Of The Pies

A good rule to follow is: If you see a Hitler quote on the Internet, it is probably fake.

This quote originated quite early, it is in the Nuremberg document L-3 which was not introduced at the Nuremberg trial because its source could not be established. The other two versions of the speech - which were introduced at Nuremberg - lack the quote. Christopher Browning thinks that this part of the speech was probably made up specifically for the British.

16 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 22, 2015 12:05:07pm

With the bullshit Edrogan has been pulling, I’m not sure we really get anything out of not just saying:

“Fuck it…the Ottomans were genocidal tyrants, slave traders and mass rapists. Greek Christian women sold as sex slaves, African animists castrated and put to work, Balkan Orthodox Christian men and women on the block. Get over it. Everybody has ghosts in the freaking closet!”

17 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 12:05:29pm

Back to the realpolitik of our age: I can’t get outraged about the use of a word. I realize many people, Armenians, are quite determined to get more people to notice their history, but I accept the tradeoff the US has to do in order to keep the leaders in Turkey flexible about us wanting to use their country for our purposes.

18 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:05:48pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This quote and the document it came from was used as evidence in the Nuremberg trials.

Quite the opposite is true. See #15.

19 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 22, 2015 12:07:16pm

re: #4 Nyet

Charles, this statement has not been authenticated, and many historians hold it to be a fake.

Good point. Even so, Hitler was certainly aware of the Armenian genocide, and similar massacres, and had every reason to suspect that he could get away with something similar. Without the complete defeat and occupation of Germany, in fact, Holocaust denialists would have a far easier time than they do.

20 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:07:39pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

More historians believe it’s genuine than fake: Obersalzberg Speech.

If we’re going to use wikipedia, I could point you to the German version of the same page:

de.wikipedia.org

Beim Nürnberger Prozess tauchte eine weitere, offenkundig gefälschte Version der Rede, die sogenannte Dschingis-Khan-Rede (IMT-Dokument L-003) auf. Sie enthält unglaubwürdige, besonders brutale und blutrünstige Redewendungen. Sie wurde in deutschen Widerstandskreisen erstellt, um die britische Regierung vor Hitler zu warnen. Diese Fälschung wurde auf Veranlassung von Generalstabschef Generaloberst Ludwig Beck an den britischen Journalisten Louis Lochner übergeben, der sie spätestens am 25. August 1939 an die Britische Botschaft in Berlin weiterleitete. Der Militärgerichtshof lehnte diese Version als Beweisstück ab.

Die Fälschung steht zweifelsfrei fest.[2] Sie wurde aber in der Publikation der “Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik” in einer Fußnote mit dem Hinweis, dass es nicht als Beweisstück überreicht wurde, abgedruckt,[3] so dass die Fälschung bis heute noch gelegentlich in der historischen Literatur als echtes Dokument kursiert.

Der Historiker Andreas Hillgruber wendet sich gegen das begreifliche Verlangen, möglichst stark belastende Zitate auch aus zweifelhaften Quellen ungeprüft zu übernehmen. Dies müsse überhaupt mit der starken Tendenz, die Schlüsseldokumente als wörtliche Wiedergaben der Äußerungen Hitlers zu zitieren, die Geschichtswissenschaft in Misskredit bringen.[4]

21 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 22, 2015 12:08:42pm

re: #20 Nyet

If we’re going to use wikipedia, I could point you to the German version of the same page:

de.wikipedia.org

I’m not sure this discussion is going to get anywhere.

22 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:08:53pm

[deleted]

23 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:09:32pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

You’re linking to a denial site.

24 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 22, 2015 12:09:46pm

Upchuck Godwinned either way.

25 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:10:57pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

No - it was introduced in the Nuremberg trial of Hermann Goering: cwporter.com

From your own wiki-link:

However, according to the Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik (ser. D, vol. 7, 1961), the document was not introduced as evidence before the International Military Tribunal for undisclosed reasons and is not included in the official publication of the documents in evidence.

26 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 22, 2015 12:12:37pm

And on a totally OT note: if your product line is a series of threads, of different colors, with the main method of distinguishing the desired color being a numerical code, why do you make it impossible for me to get a simple list of all the color codes available (preferably in numeric order)? WHY????

27 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:13:02pm

re: #25 Nyet

There’s a lot of contradictory information about the document out there, including whether it was actually submitted into evidence. But it’s definitely not an established fact that it was a fake.

28 darthstar  Apr 22, 2015 12:15:04pm

I love it when we talk about Hitler. Makes me feel so internetty.

29 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 12:16:32pm

Sigh. Well, I had hoped that by today Chuck c. Johnson might actually have found real, gainful employment.

////

30 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:17:02pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

It wasn’t, from the official transcript:

avalon.law.yale.edu

MR. DODD: Mr. President, yesterday afternoon the Tribunal asked that we ascertain the origins, if possible, of Document 1014-PS. Some question was raised about it by Dr. Siemers. It is Exhibit USA-30.

I have had a search made, and I have some information that we are prepared to submit concerning this document. I should like to point out that 1014-PS and 798-PS and L-3 are documents all concerning this same speech made at Obersalzberg on 22 August 1939. They were offered in evidence by Mr. Alderman of the American staff on the 26th day of November 1945.

I should like to point out that L-3, to which Dr. Siemers made reference yesterday, was offered only for identification, as the record shows for the proceedings of that day on the 26th of November, and has received the mark Exhibit Number USA-28 for identification only. Mr. Alderman pointed out, as appears in the record, that he was not offering it in evidence, that it was a paper which came into our hands originally through the services of a newspaperman, and that later on the Documents 798-PS and 1014-PS were found among captured documents. They referred to the same speech in Obersalzberg. Mr. Alderman offered these two at that time.

Some documents that were prepared for the trial were later withdrawn. L-3 was not printed in the official Nuremberg documents publication of the evidence, only mentioned in a footnote.

31 Lord Of The Pies  Apr 22, 2015 12:18:29pm

I’m going to defer to Sergey as our Holocaust expert.

32 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:20:09pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

But it’s definitely not an established fact that it was a fake.

I never said it was. One cannot say, however, that it is authentic - or draw any conclusions from it (like whether it ever served as Hitler’s inspiration). Neither can one state as a fact that Hitler did, indeed, say these words.

33 No Country For Old Haters  Apr 22, 2015 12:22:01pm

re: #1 Eclectic Cyborg

How many of these wingnut outrages have been over semantics?

Kind of sad that with so many real issues facing America today this is the kind of stuff we get pissed off about.

Symbolism is very important to the right wing idiots.

34 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 12:24:16pm

Welp, we are now assured of many drunken tweets all night long…

35 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:25:11pm

Here is Alderman himself:

avalon.law.yale.edu

We have three of these documents, related and constituting a single group. The first one I do not intend to offer as evidence. The other two I shall offer.

The reason for that is this: The first of the three documents came into our possession through the medium of an American newspaperman and purported to be original minutes of this meeting at Obersalzberg, transmitted to this American newspaperman by some other person; and we had no proof of the actual delivery to the intermediary by the person who took the notes. That document, therefore, merely served to alert our Prosecution to see if it could find something better. Fortunately, we did get the other two documents, which indicate that Hitler on that day made two speeches, perhaps one in the morning, one in the afternoon, as indicated by the original minutes, which we captured. By comparison of those two documents with the first document, we concluded that the first document was a slightly garbled merger of the two speeches.

On 22 August 1939 Hitler had called together at Obersalzberg the three Supreme Commanders of the three branches of the Armed Forces, as well as the commanding generals bearing the title Commanders -in- Chief (Oberbefehlshaber) .

I have indicated how, upon discovering this first document, the Prosecution set out to find better evidence of what happened on this day. In this the Prosecution succeeded. In the files of the DOW at Flensburg, the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces), there were uncovered two speeches delivered by Hitler at Obersalzberg, on 22 August 1939. These are Documents Numbers 798-PS and 1014-PS, in our series of documents.

In order to keep serial numbers consecutive, if the Tribunal please, we have had the first document, which I do not intend to offer, marked for identification Exhibit USA-28. Accordingly, I offer the second document, 798-PS, in evidence as Exhibit USA-29, and the third document, 1014-PS, as Exhibit USA-30.

Note that the quote does not appear in the two versions submitted as evidence.

36 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:25:44pm

re: #23 Nyet

Ugh, you’re right. Sorry. Deleted that link.

37 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 12:26:14pm

re: #16 Aunty Entity Dragon

With the bullshit Edrogan has been pulling, I’m not sure we really get anything out of not just saying:

“Fuck it…the Ottomans were genocidal tyrants, slave traders and mass rapists. Greek Christian women sold as sex slaves, African animists castrated and put to work, Balkan Orthodox Christian men and women on the block. Get over it. Everybody has ghosts in the freaking closet!”

You touch on a point I was going to make. Can America consider there is genocide in our own past? I’m thinking of the North American Native populations.

Yeah, we have ghosts in our own closet. And we have no room to be all high and mighty about others. So, shut up and get to work on making the world better now.

38 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:27:52pm

re: #35 Nyet

On the other hand:

Richard Albrecht (see de:Richard Albrecht), a German social researcher and political scientist[21] published a three-volume study (2006-08) on 20th century genocides that contained the document of the original German version of the Armenian quote (the L-3 text) for the first time.[22] The book is summarized as “When discussing, and applying, all relevant features scholarly accepted as leading principles of classifying documents as authentic, the author not only works out that the L-3-document as translated and brought in a few days later at August 25th, 1939, by the US-newspaper man Louis P. Lochner (1887-1975) from Associated Press, and first published in 1942, whenever compared with any other version of Hitler’s speech - above all the Nuremberg-documents 798-PS, 1014 PS, and Raeder-27, as produced by a dubious witness after realising the L-3-version, too - this version must be regarded as the one which most likely sums up and expresses what Hitler said - for what Hitler really said in his notorious second speech was only written down simultaneously during his speech by one of his auditors: Wilhelm Canaris (1887-1945), at that time chief of the military secret service within the Third Reich”.

More: h-net.org

39 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 12:28:08pm

re: #34 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Welp, we are now assured of many drunken tweets all night long…

For a guy who’s begging for money to finance an investigation he believes will bring down Hillary, he sure has money to burn.

40 b_sharp  Apr 22, 2015 12:28:19pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Ugh, you’re right. Sorry. Deleted that link.

There we go, the obvious difference between libruls and wingnuts. The libruls are willing to acknowledge an error and correct it.

41 Jack Burton  Apr 22, 2015 12:28:20pm
Notice that he puts the word “genocide” in quotes when referring to Darfur.

That’s why we put the word “journalist” in quotes when referring to Chuckles.

42 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 12:29:49pm
43 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 12:32:33pm

Profile in Courage:

44 thecommodore  Apr 22, 2015 12:33:46pm

I understand the realpolitick behind not using the word “genocide,” but to not call it a genocide is like not calling what the Nazis did to Jews a “holocaust.”

This has been going on for 100 years now, and it has to stop.

Shame on Obama!

45 Ace-o-aces  Apr 22, 2015 12:33:51pm

Think I struck a nerve

She stopped before going on about how she had to walk to school, uphill, in the snow.

46 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 12:34:23pm

re: #34 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Welp, we are now assured of many drunken tweets all night long…

Only after he sits through the time share presentation.

47 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 12:34:33pm

re: #42 Backwoods_Sleuth

48 Eventual Carrion  Apr 22, 2015 12:36:29pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

For a guy who’s begging for money to finance an investigation he believes will bring down Hillary, he sure has money to burn.

Maybe he is making money being a coke mule to Vegas. I think a TSA cavity search may be in order. Maybe the capitol police can watch.

49 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:37:46pm

Pretty disgusting that the first search result at Google for “document l-3 nuremberg” goes to a Holocaust denial site.

50 BeachDem  Apr 22, 2015 12:37:55pm

re: #43 Lidane

Profile in Courage:

[Embedded content]

Shouldn’t Scotty be listening to, you know, his constituents in Wisconsin, rather than Israelis? What exactly does he think they’re going to tell him, anyway?

Dog, I hate that little asshole.

51 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 22, 2015 12:38:22pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

If that’s her in the photo, she has quite a number of advantages she doesn’t think about or want to acknowledge.

Also, I note that “my dad was too poor growing up for shoes without holes” says nothing about what conditions she grew up under. My parents managed to move up to the upper middle class - an improvement over where they grew up (and substantially more difficult now, I suspect) and I reaped the benefits of that.

The difference is I recognize that.

52 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 12:38:44pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

Think I struck a nerve

[Embedded content]

She stopped before going on about how she had to walk to school, uphill, in the snow.

How long before you uses Ann Romney’s anectdote about how they were so poor they ate tuna casseroles all the time and used the ironing board as their table?

53 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:39:52pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

Yes, I’ve read about him. He’s not a historian and his book has been self-published (at GRIN Verlag). Shaker Verlag, where his book also appeared, also seems to be a dodgy publisher that offers to publish dissertations (nothing wrong with it, but it’s a form of self-publishing, basically), and they’re known for spam:

de.wikipedia.org

Bekannt wurde Shaker auch durch sein aggressives Marketing wie unaufgefordert zugesandte E-Mails und Briefpost.[3][4][5]

So hardly a respected institution either. Not good enough…

54 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:40:37pm

I actually first heard about this quote years ago; can’t remember exactly where, but it was in something I read about the Nuremberg trial, probably for a history class either in college or high school. At the time, I don’t remember any discussion at all about it being faked. I think this is a relatively recent debate.

55 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:42:13pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Pretty disgusting that the first search result at Google for “document l-3 nuremberg” goes to a Holocaust denial site.

Porter’s site is one of the oldest, I was dealing with it already around 2002/3 (but it’s much older than that). He’s one of the more crude antisemites out there, what with promoting the blood libel, for example.

56 #FergusonFireside  Apr 22, 2015 12:44:09pm

re: #34 Backwoods_Sleuth

Bet he took a loan against his go fund me.

57 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 12:44:11pm

re: #42 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

58 Ace-o-aces  Apr 22, 2015 12:44:12pm

re: #51 klys (maker of Silmarils)

If that’s her in the photo, she has quite a number of advantages she doesn’t think about or want to acknowledge.

I glanced through he blog. It’s basically a regurgitation of every wingnut meme. She even has a post about how, when she was living on $4/hr and buying raman noodles to survive, she saw a well dressed black woman using food stamps to buy steaks and seafood. uh, huh. I’m sure.

59 Timothy Watson  Apr 22, 2015 12:46:28pm

Wasn’t the GOP outraged (OUTRAGED!!1!) a couple years ago when Democrats in Congress were trying to pass a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide?

60 CuriousLurker  Apr 22, 2015 12:47:46pm

I covered the issue of realpolitik—which I find odious, BTW—this past Saturday in the Pages when criticism began being directed at the U.S. instead of Turkey. The comment is pretty long, so I’ll just link to it.

I’d also point out that in 2007 President Bush, with assistance from then Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, quashed a proposed House bill that would have recognized the genocide, so the wingnuts really should STFU about hypocrisy (see details here).

61 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 22, 2015 12:48:13pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Ugh, you’re right. Sorry. Deleted that link.

This post illustrates what I think is the biggest difference between us and the wingnuts.

62 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 12:49:28pm

re: #58 Ace-o-aces

I glanced through he blog. It’s basically a regurgitation of every wingnut meme. She even has a post about how, when she was living on $4/hr and buying raman noodles to survive, she saw a well dressed black woman using food stamps to buy steaks and seafood. uh, huh. I’m sure.

“We was so poor we didn’t even have any boot straps to pull ourselves up with.” /

63 Timothy Watson  Apr 22, 2015 12:49:57pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

Dammit, that was weird! :)

64 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Apr 22, 2015 12:49:58pm

re: #59 Timothy Watson

Wasn’t the GOP outraged (OUTRAGED!!1!) a couple years ago when Democrats in Congress were trying to pass a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide?

That was when they liked Turkey. Now that Turkey has committed the unforgivable crime of having their Gaza aid ship hijacked on the high seas by Israeli pirates, they’re worse than 1000 Hitlers.

65 Snarknado!  Apr 22, 2015 12:50:45pm

re: #58 Ace-o-aces

I glanced through he blog. It’s basically a regurgitation of every wingnut meme. She even has a post about how, when she was living on $4/hr and buying raman noodles to survive, she saw a well dressed black woman using food stamps to buy steaks and seafood. uh, huh. I’m sure.

I had a minimum wage job when it was in the $3 range — don’t you dare ask what year, whippersnapper — but that was long enough ago that I wasn’t on food stamps, and was able to eat steak. Occasionally. Maybe she and her husband didn’t budget well — or maybe inflation had made a mockery of the “minimum wage” idea already.

66 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 12:51:22pm

In my readings I don’t remember any German generals recounting that quote.

67 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 12:52:36pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I actually first heard about this quote years ago; can’t remember exactly where, but it was in something I read about the Nuremberg trial, probably for a history class either in college or high school. At the time, I don’t remember any discussion at all about it being faked. I think this is a relatively recent debate.

This is one of those quotes that nobody among the general public cares to doubt because it seems plausible. An urban legend of sorts. The debate is not at all recent, German historians were criticizing it at least since the 1970s, maybe earlier.

Anyway, whether it’s fake or not, we don’t know that it’s not fake, and that’s the most relevant fact when it comes it its use. Its (lack of) provenance makes it inherently unreliable - a fact understood by the Nuremberg prosecutors.

68 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:53:59pm

re: #44 thecommodore

I understand the realpolitick behind not using the word “genocide,” but to not call it a genocide is like not calling what the Nazis did to Jews a “holocaust.”

This has been going on for 100 years now, and it has to stop.

Shame on Obama!

And I understand the frustration and anger that he decided not to use the word. But Turkey is a vital part of the NATO alliance in the region, and there are serious problems in the area that we need Turkey’s help for, problems that are endangering lives right now. It doesn’t make sense to risk that alliance at this time just to make a rhetorical point.

Frustrating and maddening. But there it is.

69 Zamb  Apr 22, 2015 12:55:07pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

I think the real tell that this is bullshit is the “crips and bloods” comment. Fucking every privileged white person thinks they are everywhere.

70 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 12:55:41pm

It is certainly plausible that Hitler felt that way, and he may well have said it to somebody he felt was showing reluctance. I don’t think the German generals would have ignored such lunacy before the war started. I also don’t think Hitler would have risked antagonizing his generals in the same way.

71 Single-handed sailor  Apr 22, 2015 12:56:22pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

We’d lose our bases in Turkey if we use the word “genocide”.

72 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 12:57:02pm

re: #71 Single-handed sailor

We’d lose our bases in Turkey if we use the word “genocide”.

Very likely.

73 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 12:57:05pm

re: #69 Zamb

I think the real tell that this is bullshit is the “crips and bloods” comment. Fucking every privileged white person thinks they are everywhere.

“On a corner next to the Crips and Bloods”…..In her hood they hung out together…..sure.

74 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 12:57:30pm

The President of the United States of America will simply not address the Armenian genocide, no matter what the man’s name is. Do you think W would have brought it up and than asked, Oh yeah, we can use your airspace, right?

75 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 12:58:17pm

re: #73 Drive By Commenter

“On a corner next to the Crips and Bloods”…..In her hood they hung out together…..sure.

Good catch

76 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 12:59:44pm

re: #44 thecommodore

I understand the realpolitick behind not using the word “genocide,” but to not call it a genocide is like not calling what the Nazis did to Jews a “holocaust.”

This has been going on for 100 years now, and it has to stop.

Shame on Obama!

Would you be willing to piss off the Turkish government right now resulting in making even more of a mess in the Middle East and doing nothing to help stop ISIS and what they are doing today?

Open door versus closed door.

Maybe some actual cooperation with the Turks on something like this can loosen up their acceptance to deal with admitting their past in the future.

Hell, we can’t even get all of our own country to admit our own past. Look at the recent denial of what the civil war was all about.

You said it yourself, 100 years. Is not uttering a word in a few days going to change history? The deed was done. The Armenian extermination led to the word genocide, so in a way the world acknowledges it. Obama knows it, you know it, and the Turks know everyone knows it.

Also, doesn’t it say he is using the term Medz Yeghern which is what the Armenians call it themselves.

Aremenian Weekly - The ‘Exact Translation’: How ‘Medz Yeghern’ Means Genocide

77 Zamb  Apr 22, 2015 1:00:28pm

re: #73 Drive By Commenter

“On a corner next to the Crips and Bloods”…..In her hood they hung out together…..sure.

She’s trying to claim she lived in one of those “war-zones” everyone is talking about. Basically trying to get people to picture that she had to dodge bullets every day leaving her house. If there is any truth to this story I’m willing to bet my entire paycheck that it is she saw some black guy with a red shirt one day.

78 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 1:00:53pm

re: #59 Timothy Watson

Wasn’t the GOP outraged (OUTRAGED!!1!) a couple years ago when Democrats in Congress were trying to pass a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide?

Take guess who said this:

“I think it’s a really bad idea for the Congress to be condemning what happened 100 years ago,” the Kentucky Republican said Sunday. “We all know it happened. There’s a genocide museum, actually, in Armenia to commemorate what happened.

“But I don’t think the Congress passing this resolution is a good idea at any point. But particularly not a good idea when Turkey is cooperating with us in many ways, which ensures greater safety for our soldiers.”

Give up? It was Mitch McConnell in 2007.

79 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 1:02:02pm

re: #77 Zamb

They were so poor, that on Christmas morning, if you didn’t have a hole in your pocket, you had nothing to play with.

80 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 1:02:15pm

re: #77 Zamb

She probably saw a couple of Charles Bronson or Jan Michael Vincent movies. Maybe even saw Sylvester Stallone in “Cobra”.

81 Dr Lizardo  Apr 22, 2015 1:02:50pm

re: #80 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

She probably saw a couple of Charles Bronson or Jan Michael Vincent movies. Maybe even saw Sylvester Stallone in “Cobra”.

LOLOL

82 Dr Lizardo  Apr 22, 2015 1:03:11pm

With that, goodnight Lizards.

83 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 22, 2015 1:03:19pm

re: #58 Ace-o-aces

I glanced through he blog. It’s basically a regurgitation of every wingnut meme. She even has a post about how, when she was living on $4/hr and buying raman noodles to survive, she saw a well dressed black woman using food stamps to buy steaks and seafood. uh, huh. I’m sure.

Every wingnut has a story like that, except that the food stamp bum is always fat as well. This has all the characteristics of an urban legend, including the repetition of a detail (the purchase of expensive seafood) that would not recur almost every single time if these were genuine reports of real events.

84 EmmaAnne  Apr 22, 2015 1:04:21pm

re: #77 Zamb

She’s trying to claim she lived in one of those “war-zones” everyone is talking about. Basically trying to get people to picture that she had to dodge bullets every day leaving her house. If there is any truth to this story I’m willing to bet my entire paycheck that it is she saw some black guy with a red shirt one day.

Indeed. And the black woman she saw buying seafood? She just assumed the woman was going to pay for it with food stamps.

85 CuriousLurker  Apr 22, 2015 1:05:01pm

re: #67 Nyet

This is one of those quotes that nobody among the general public cares to doubt because it seems plausible. An urban legend of sorts. The debate is not at all recent, German historians were criticizing it at least since the 1970s, maybe earlier.

Anyway, whether it’s fake or not, we don’t know that it’s not fake, and that’s the most relevant fact when it comes it its use. Its (lack of) provenance makes it inherently unreliable - a fact understood by the Nuremberg prosecutors.

I just ran across this report from 1985 and I saved the link because it looked like something you’d be interested in. FWIW, I have no idea how objective it is (or even if it is), but I don’t have the patience to read that kind of scholarly stuff where they pick apart every tiny thing:

Hitler and the Armenian Genocide (PDF) by Kevork B. Bardakjian

It was published by the Zoryan Institute

86 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 1:05:31pm

Didn’t I read somewhere that most people getting “food stamps” work?

87 CuriousLurker  Apr 22, 2015 1:06:10pm

re: #63 Timothy Watson

Dammit, that was weird! :)

Heh, yeah it was. ;)

88 Iwouldprefernotto  Apr 22, 2015 1:06:41pm

re: #86 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Didn’t I read somewhere that most people getting “food stamps” work?

But only at one job, so it doesn’t count.

89 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 1:07:01pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

Curiouslurker hit on this earlier, but bears repeating - and it’s far more concise than my earlier posting.

This is realpolitik in action (or inaction).

You either are pushing Turkey to admit to genocide nearly a century old, or you work to stop one that is currently ongoing in Syria (though it’s more properly classified as democide), which needs their support (both in bases, logistics, and direct military assistance).

90 Zamb  Apr 22, 2015 1:07:53pm

re: #84 EmmaAnne

Indeed. And the black woman she saw buying seafood? She just assumed the woman was going to pay for it with food stamps.

That’s the real truth behind that claim, I was a cashier for years and never saw people buying expensive seafood with their food stamps but every single wingnut has seen it on multiple occasions just waiting in line.

91 Jack Burton  Apr 22, 2015 1:08:53pm

re: #80 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

She probably saw a couple of Charles Bronson or Jan Michael Vincent movies. Maybe even saw Sylvester Stallone in “Cobra”.

Cobra. Now that was a great horrible 80s flick.

The Axe-clinkers…

92 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 1:09:47pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

After 3 years, still dead accurate:

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

#1. “Stop Asking for Handouts! I Never Got Help from Anybody!”

You “never got help from anybody.”

Nothing was “handed to you.”

All right.

Let’s say you scratched and you clawed and climbed the ladder of success. You never took a welfare check or charity, you worked three jobs to get through college. And at the end of it you look back on your labors and feel justified in saying, “I never got help from anybody.”

So … you were never a child? From birth, you were hunting and gathering your own food? You never had a mother to “hand” you milk?

You’re completely self-educated? At age 4, you sought out your own knowledge, and paid teachers out of your own pocket?

I don’t think you did. I’d have seen something about it on the news.

I think your parents poured untold resources into your hungry mouth. I think you had a roof over your head that was paid for by other people, I think you went to schools that were built and staffed and paid for by other people, I think you felt safe because the streets were patrolled by other people, I think you drove to your three jobs on roads paved by other people, in a car built by other people and burning oil that was drilled by other people in a nation whose borders were defended by other people.

Look, I understand why “I ain’t asking for help from nobody!” individualism works as an attitude, or a philosophy. No, you shouldn’t wait for help to come along. I’ll even agree that we don’t impress that message hard enough on kids when they’re growing up. Kids, if you’re reading this, and you fucking shouldn’t be, but if you are, let me tell you now:

The world doesn’t give a shit about you, and you’ll have to wrestle it for every good thing you get. Hell, I’ve written an entire article about how grown-ups don’t tell us how freaking hard everything is, and how the shock of unexpected effort trips us up.

But, for the rich, this somehow gets extended to the absolutely delusional idea that they exist on a purely self-sufficient island, in an ocean full of shiftless layabouts always asking to borrow their stuff.

93 Ace-o-aces  Apr 22, 2015 1:09:53pm

re: #88 Iwouldprefernotto

But only at one job, so it doesn’t count.

That single mother of three with a high-school education working a 12-hour shift at McDonalds with no health insurance and no time-off just needs to work harder.

94 Mike Lamb  Apr 22, 2015 1:10:16pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

Let’s see, how can I put this…her whole story reeks of bullshit.

That was easier than I thought.

95 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 1:10:36pm

re: #89 lawhawk

And you are ignoring every other American President who did the same. For a hundred fucking years.Timing is everything in some things and this is nothing more than the same old shit from the right wing and the hacks who support them.

96 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 1:12:18pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

I just ran across this report from 1985 and I saved the link because it looked like something you’d be interested in. FWIW, I have no idea how objective it is (or even if it is), but I don’t have the patience to read that kind of scholarly stuff where they pick apart every tiny thing:

Hitler and the Armenian Genocide (PDF) by Kevork B. Bardakjian

It was published by the Zoryan Institute

Very interesting. Going through this now.

97 calochortus  Apr 22, 2015 1:12:59pm

re: #90 Zamb

That’s the real truth behind that claim, I was a cashier for years and never saw people buying expensive seafood with their food stamps but every single wingnut has seen it on multiple occasions just waiting in line.

I once saw college students try to buy beer with food stamps. Does that count? Of course, it was 40 years ago and they couldn’t do it, but I think that proves every single food stamp recipient is a bad actor.
///

98 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 1:15:10pm
99 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 1:15:18pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

Bardakjian makes a good case for the authenticity of the L-3 document.

100 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 1:16:27pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

Yes, I’ve seen this book. The author wants to “save” the quote for obvious reasons, the problem though is that he does nothing to establish its authenticity. He merely makes some critical remarks about Alderman’s decision not to include the doc as evidence, but even if his points were valid, that still wouldn’t show that the document is genuine.

101 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 1:17:32pm

Which Republican congressman will be the first to insist that we rename the turkey “Freedom Meat”?

102 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 1:17:46pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

That seems to be the only source of the quote. No generals recounted it or anything like it before the war started.
The authenticity, however, is only meaningful to history. Our President has no business discussing the Armenian Genocide at this time.

103 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 1:18:23pm

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

104 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 1:18:23pm

re: #101 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Gohmert.

105 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 1:19:28pm

re: #86 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Didn’t I read somewhere that most people getting “food stamps” work?

Not the right kind of job, not enough hours and not hard enough to suit all the hardworking patriots who spend their workdays on Twitter.

/

106 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 1:19:48pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

“Please, please…I can only ruin so much!”

107 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 1:20:27pm

re: #103 lawhawk

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

4) Have you seen the other GOP candidates?

108 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 1:20:59pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

“I’ll do for America what I did for HP.”

109 CuriousLurker  Apr 22, 2015 1:21:01pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

re: #100 Nyet

I only read like two pages before my eyes glazed over, so I don’t have any opinion on it.

110 Single-handed sailor  Apr 22, 2015 1:22:02pm

re: #103 lawhawk

Hands up, don’t shoot!

111 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 1:22:39pm

re: #109 CuriousLurker

I only read like two pages before my eyes glazed over, so I don’t have any opinion on it.

Given the way the document was acquired, it’s never going to be possible to establish its provenance in a legal sense. But I think Bardakjian makes a pretty good case that it’s probably genuine.

112 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 1:22:55pm

I see that Gov. Abbott was ranting all wingnut yesterday.

As a sitting governor, not a candidate.

It’ll take decades before Texas comes to its senses.

113 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 1:23:04pm

re: #58 Ace-o-aces

I glanced through he blog. It’s basically a regurgitation of every wingnut meme. She even has a post about how, when she was living on $4/hr and buying raman noodles to survive, she saw a well dressed black woman using food stamps to buy steaks and seafood. uh, huh. I’m sure.

The black woman buying food with food stamps should have been dressed in sackcloth and ashes and bought only Chef Boy RDee?

///

114 Dave In Austin  Apr 22, 2015 1:23:15pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

4) My horse needs makeup.

115 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 1:23:51pm

re: #102 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

That seems to be the only source of the quote.

Yep. No one doubts that the document came from the sources close to Hitler, BTW. The question is whether Hitler said this or whether this quote - among the other “bloodthirsty” passages surrounding it - was inserted for certain specific purposes (see Browning above). Given lack of corroboration the quote certainly cannot be considered authentic. (Whether it should be considered fake is another issue.)

116 calochortus  Apr 22, 2015 1:24:29pm

re: #113 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

The black woman buying food with food stamps should have been dressed in sackcloth and ashes and bought only Chef Boy RDee?

///

Beans. She should only have bought beans and maybe rice. She shouldn’t have a chef cooking her meals for her.

117 Kilroy01  Apr 22, 2015 1:24:37pm

re: #103 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

That photo is begging for a caption contest:

1) You got me. I nearly destroyed HP and got paid millions to walk away.
2) Y - M - C - A.
3) I’m that far over my head to think I could run for the WH.

4) Hands up don’t shoot… hahaha.. just kidding…

118 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 1:24:56pm

re: #103 lawhawk

I just want to ask her, “Why the long face, Carly?”

119 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 1:29:35pm

re: #103 lawhawk

4) But wait, there’s more. You can get a CEO who nearly destroyed HP and a Sham Wow for the unbelievably low price of $1,000 per speaking engagement. Act now before the price goes up!

120 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 1:29:49pm

re: #103 lawhawk

121 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 1:30:37pm

re: #116 calochortus

Dry beans and rice. Salt. Maybe some onions. Soup bone or two. Some fish heads. Bouillon cubes (store brand).

122 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 1:32:50pm

I’d sure like to know who Carly Fiorina has as political consultants. They are either taking her money or are just as delusional as her thinking she is a legit candidate for President.

Maybe she has one of those magical mirrors like in the old Snow White fairy tale.

123 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 1:35:36pm

re: #120 Kragar

My favorite bit about Carly is that she wanted HP to buy PWC’s tech services arm for $14 billion. Wall Street was all like “WTF?!”

She withdrew the offer.

IBM ended up buying it for $4 billion.

Yeah, that’s tremendous business acumen right there. Offering to pay nearly 2.53.5 (I’m a lawyer, not a math guru damnit!) times more than the target company was worth.

124 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 1:35:46pm

I believe Ali would call this “Rope-a-Dope”:

…

125 Iwouldprefernotto  Apr 22, 2015 1:35:50pm

re: #122 ObserverArt

I’d sure like to know who Carly Fiorina has as political consultants. They are either taking her money or are just as delusional as her thinking she is a legit candidate for President.

Maybe she has one of those magical mirrors like in the old Snow White fairy tale.

She’s this year’s Sarah Palin: VP candidate who can only lose (and then cash in).

126 calochortus  Apr 22, 2015 1:37:40pm

re: #121 Drive By Commenter

Dry beans and rice. Salt. Maybe some onions. Soup bone or two. Some fish heads. Bouillon cubes (store brand).

The irony is that as upper middle class, educated woman, I had the luxury of being a stay at home mom and all around housewife. I have the time, the resources and the skills to do way better with that rice and beans, etc. than your average working poor person. Being poor takes a lot of time, and if you’re a single parent with kids, your small amount of free time is non-existent.

127 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 1:44:23pm

Goddamnit.

United States: Russian military has deployed additional air defense systems into eastern Ukrraine, moved several of these near front lines - @Reuters
end of alert

128 b_sharp  Apr 22, 2015 1:44:54pm

All of you people look absolutely marvelous.

129 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 1:45:29pm

re: #9 HappyWarrior

It’s unfortunate he won’t call it as such but Chuck is just doing his usual concern trolling. As if he actually gives a crap about the Armenian people and what happened to them 100 years ago.

Oh, he probably cares; he most likely figures that he’d never have had to hear the word “Kardashian” because they would have been happy to stay in Armenia had the Turks not tried to wipe out the entire nation.

//

130 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 1:45:47pm

An Online University Course on the Science of Climate Science Denial

To further the work of educating the public, and empowering people to communicate the realities of climate change, the Skeptical Science team has collaborated with The University of Queensland to develop a MOOC, Making Sense of Climate Science Denial. MOOC stands for Massive (we’ve already had thousands of students sign up from over 130 countries) Open (available for free to everyone) Online (web-based, no software required) Course.

[…]

Our MOOC starts next Tuesday, April 28. It’s a free online course hosted by the not-for-profit edX (founded by Harvard University & MIT). It runs for 7 weeks, requiring 1 to 2 hours per week. You can enroll at edx.org.

…

…

131 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 1:48:56pm

re: #125 Iwouldprefernotto

She’s this year’s Sarah Palin: VP candidate who can only lose (and then cash in).

Because nothing works better for wingnut grift than “When I ran for President…”

132 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 1:52:38pm

“Does anybody even remember anymore that we were supposed to be investigating the attacks in Benghazi? With the Republicans’ obsessive focus on Hillary Clinton, and their now stated intention to drag out this political charade until just months before the 2016 election, the Select Committee no longer bears any resemblance to its original purpose. At the Chairman’s stated pace, this investigation is on track to last longer than the investigations of Iran-Contra, the Kennedy assassination, Watergate, and 9/11, and it will squander more than $6 million in taxpayer funds in the process. Instead of targeting Secretary Clinton, we should honor the promises we made to the victims’ families to not make this investigation a political football and work to ensure that this never happens again.”

133 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 1:54:29pm

re: #132 Kragar

“has become?”

134 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 1:54:34pm

re: #132 Kragar

[Embedded content]

This is the real grifting of the American public. Time and money spent by Republicans on absolutely nothing of substance.

135 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 1:56:00pm
136 lawhawk  Apr 22, 2015 1:58:17pm

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

And the GOP’s self-inflicted national nightmare of AG Eric Holder will come to an end, and the new national nightmare of AG Loretta Lynch will commence.

The GOP hated Holder so much, they kept him on for more than 5 months more than he wanted to be there.

137 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 1:59:25pm

heh…

138 EPR-radar  Apr 22, 2015 1:59:55pm

re: #131 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Because nothing works better for wingnut grift than “When I ran for President…”

I can’t imagine Fiorina will end up working the wingnut grift machine. That requires too much pandering to the little people for her taste, I’m sure.

Fiorina is a political figure for only one reason —- significant self funding of her campaign for CA Senate in 2010 ($5.5 million).

139 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 2:00:02pm
140 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 22, 2015 2:00:43pm

re: #5 Lord Of The Pies

A good rule to follow is: If you see a Hitler quote on the Internet, it is probably fake.

I think a saw a Lincoln quote on the Internet saying exactly that.
/

141 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 2:01:28pm

TN state Rep. Sheila Butt calls rape, incest ‘not verifiable’

State Rep. Sheila Butt, a Republican representing Columbia, is being criticized for remarks during a House debate about adding exceptions for rape and incest victims to a bill requiring a 48-hour waiting period for women seeking an abortion.

Butt opposed the amendment that would have added those exceptions, saying on Tuesday:

“This amendment appears political because we understand that in most instances this is not verifiable.”

[…]

142 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 2:03:41pm

Committee Approves Bill Targeting Same-Sex Marriage

A Texas House committee on Wednesday passed a bill that seeks to prohibit same-sex marriages, even though the state already bans such unions.

The measure is one of several proposals at the Texas Capitol targeting same-sex marriage and the first one that has cleared a legislative committee this session, according to the Texas Freedom Network, which describes itself as fighting initiatives backed by the state’s religious right.

The State Affairs Committee passed House Bill 4105, which would forbid the use of state or local funds for issuing same-sex marriage licenses. The 7-3 vote was along party lines, with only Republicans supporting the measure. The proposal now heads to a committee that schedules legislation for debate by the full House.

[…]

143 GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 22, 2015 2:03:57pm

re: #132 Kragar

What a way to memorialize those who died that day. Way to go GOP.

144 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 2:03:58pm

re: #141 freetoken

TN state Rep. Sheila Butt calls rape, incest ‘not verifiable’

Also not verifiable: whether or not Sheila Butt has a soul.

WTF.

145 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:04:30pm

re: #142 freetoken

A Texas House committee on Wednesday passed a bill that seeks to prohibit same-sex marriages, even though the state already bans such unions.

Now they just need to ban ACORN.
/

146 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 2:09:54pm
147 Zamb  Apr 22, 2015 2:11:17pm

re: #146 Kragar

You know for all their talk about executive overreach on legislative matters, wouldn’t this be legislative overreach into the realm of the judiciary?

148 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 22, 2015 2:11:42pm

re: #101 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Which Republican congressman will be the first to insist that we rename the turkey “Freedom Meat”?

Even the halal ones?

149 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 2:12:00pm

The GOP is full speed ahead today, I see.

150 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 2:13:19pm

re: #141 freetoken

TN state Rep. Sheila Butt calls rape, incest ‘not verifiable’

What a butt head. I’m so tired of these ignorant RWNJs.

151 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 22, 2015 2:15:00pm

re: #147 Zamb

You know for all their talk about executive overreach on legislative matters, wouldn’t this be legislative overreach into the realm of the judiciary?

They’re trying to establish the concept of legislative tyranny.
//

152 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 2:15:09pm

re: #146 Kragar

[Embedded content]

153 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Apr 22, 2015 2:16:27pm

re: #146 Kragar

Jobs jobs jobs

154 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 2:17:17pm

Rand tries to make a joke:

155 blueraven  Apr 22, 2015 2:17:19pm

Baltimore police union compares protesters to lynch mob in presser.

I can’t even…

156 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 2:18:21pm

re: #146 Kragar

Yeah, good luck with that.

157 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:20:04pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

Rand tries to make a joke:

And some of you think Rand Paul Dr isn’t presidential timber.

///

158 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:20:18pm

re: #155 blueraven

Baltimore police union compares protesters to lynch mob in presser.

I can’t even…

OFFS

159 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 2:20:44pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

Rand tries to make a joke:

[Embedded content]

That Rand! What a wacky cut-up!

160 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 2:24:16pm

re: #159 Charles Johnson

That Rand! What a wacky cut-up!

The animated gif really shows how hip and with it Rand is.

161 blueraven  Apr 22, 2015 2:24:35pm
162 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 2:24:35pm
163 Timothy Watson  Apr 22, 2015 2:24:39pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

Rand tries to make a joke:

[Embedded content]

Huh? What?

164 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:26:54pm

re: #161 blueraven

Yeah, so-called citizens need to shut their mouths, stay in their houses, and let the police run the city as they see fit.

//

165 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 2:27:39pm

i heard a paul i believe it was rand on tee vee today telling us about the imminent financial cat astrophe

or is it cat apostrophe?

166 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:27:45pm

re: #162 Lidane

Silly gays. Always in league with Muslim fundamentalists.

///

167 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 2:29:02pm

re: #162 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Tony Perkins plumbing new depths of Grifting The Stupid…

168 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 2:29:24pm
169 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:30:58pm

re: #162 Lidane

Can I just set some money on fire instead?

170 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 2:31:55pm

ooops!

171 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 2:33:01pm

“We learned that the Rand Paul campaign was selling Ray-Ban sunglasses imprinted with the “Rand” logo without our consent,” Jane Lehman, a spokeswoman for the manufacturer’s parent company Luxottica, said in a statement. “We asked the campaign to remove the product from their site.”

172 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Apr 22, 2015 2:34:49pm

re: #171 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

“We learned that the Rand Paul campaign was selling Ray-Ban sunglasses imprinted with the “Rand” logo without our consent,” Jane Lehman, a spokeswoman for the manufacturer’s parent company Luxottica, said in a statement. “We asked the campaign to remove the product from their site.”

Damn Communist free marketing business people.

/

173 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 2:35:09pm

Good for him. The interviewer was just looking for his “Gotcha!” quote:

It’s a press tour for a movie, for fuck’s sake. He’s not there to answer your questions about his addictions. WTF.

174 Nyet  Apr 22, 2015 2:38:05pm

re: #173 Lidane

Seems like the interviewer is on a constant search for notoriety.

175 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 2:42:02pm

re: #171 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

“We learned that the Rand Paul campaign was selling Ray-Ban sunglasses imprinted with the “Rand” logo without our consent,” Jane Lehman, a spokeswoman for the manufacturer’s parent company Luxottica, said in a statement. “We asked the campaign to remove the product from their site.”

Without permission. Sounds about right.

176 No Country For Old Haters  Apr 22, 2015 2:44:28pm

re: #170 Backwoods_Sleuth

ooops!

[Embedded content]

Looking at the weird hair, I knew it would be Rand Paul.

177 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 2:44:37pm

re: #175 Drive By Commenter

Glibertarians are free to do anything they want to, didn’t you know?

178 Drive By Commenter  Apr 22, 2015 2:46:40pm

re: #177 freetoken

Glibertarians are free to do anything they want to, didn’t you know?

They show us every day.

179 gwangung  Apr 22, 2015 2:49:12pm

re: #161 blueraven

[Embedded content]

So who in the Baltimore police has been killed?

180 wrenchwench  Apr 22, 2015 2:55:35pm
181 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 2:58:03pm

re: #170 Backwoods_Sleuth

ooops!

[Embedded content]

I sort of feel sorry for this kid, he has a real problem with alcohol. Maybe Dad should stay home and try to get some real help for his son instead of trying to run for a position he’ll never hold. Obviously, he was allowed to get away with another incident in KY by attending some program in 2013 and there was also this incident in NC in Jan 2013:

usatoday.com

It makes you wonder what else he has gotten away with and how long he’s been drinking? How much is Rand Paul hiding just to “protect” his own image?

182 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 2:59:49pm

Woohoo. Fire HD has arrived.

183 BeachDem  Apr 22, 2015 3:01:55pm

re: #144 Lidane

Also not verifiable: whether or not Sheila Butt has a soul.

WTF.

Or any functioning brain cells.

184 Lord Of The Pies  Apr 22, 2015 3:02:14pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

Think I struck a nerve

[Embedded content]

She stopped before going on about how she had to walk to school, uphill, in the snow.

She’s making shit up. Did you read her profile? “Belly Dancer”

185 William Lewis  Apr 22, 2015 3:03:46pm

re: #181 Justanotherhuman

I sort of feel sorry for this kid, he has a real problem with alcohol. Maybe Dad should stay home and try to get some real help for his son instead of trying to run for a position he’ll never hold. Obviously, he was allowed to get away with another incident in KY by attending some program in 2013 and there was also this incident in NC in Jan 2013:

usatoday.com

It makes you wonder what else he has gotten away with and how long he’s been drinking? How much is Rand Paul hiding just to “protect” his own image?

I’m reminded of Terry McGovern, George McGovern’s daughter who would eventually freeze to death while drunk in Madison, WI. Sometimes even the best parenting can’t help.

186 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 3:04:30pm

There are a subsection of the religious right who like to think of themselves as intelligent and well educated, in part because they can compose sentences longer than three words and actual paragraphs.

Yet the substance of their writing still is without merit, no matter how proud they are of it.

Take the case this week of, what else, the topic of gay marriage. Mullah Mohler’s main blogger, Denny Burk, puts up an approving nod:
Why gay marriage will fail
which links through to a mini essay by Peter Leithart:
THE FAILURE OF GAY MARRIAGE

The Leithart essay is not that long but boy, is it tortured.

My takeaway is that Leithart would rather that marriage be returned to the archaic world of marriage before “romantic marriage”. He doesn’t call it by name, but before romantic marriage was arranged marriages (as still practiced in certain parts of the world today.)

Yes, these people really do want to go back to the 12th century, and they will write up fancy works to convince themselves that they are right to do so.

187 blueraven  Apr 22, 2015 3:04:31pm

Charles, have you done something new with the comment (+, -, report etc..) buttons?
They kind of rollover when I hover now.

188 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 3:05:40pm

OT, but the airplane/military geeks will enjoy this bit of mil-pr0n:
Check Out This Royal Air Force Typhoon With A Battle Of Britain Paintjob

189 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 3:06:11pm

re: #45 Ace-o-aces

My husband and I both made $4 an hour

i made $2.50/hr back in the 70s but it didnt make an asshole out of me

190 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 3:06:41pm

re: #184 Lord Of The Pies

She also 70 yrs old if you do the math.

I think this is just another RW propaganda site to disseminate their bullshit, probably some 20-something posting whatever they’re told for minimum wage.

191 BeachDem  Apr 22, 2015 3:08:47pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Woohoo. Fire HD has arrived.

Sure, rub it in—mine says it won’t ship until 5/14.

192 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 3:11:24pm

re: #142 freetoken

Committee Approves Bill Targeting Same-Sex Marriage

So, what will Texas do if the Supreme Court rules in favor of same sex marriages?

Will they be real Americans that believe in law and order, the American system of justice and accept the ruling?

Or, will they act like petulant children, throw a tantrum, threaten to secede and generally make asses of themselves?

Hmm. If it happens soon and Abbott is still governor, they will be asses about it.

193 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 22, 2015 3:13:06pm

re: #192 ObserverArt

So, what will Texas do if the Supreme Court rules in favor of same sex marriages?

Will they be real Americans that believe in law and order, the American system of justice and accept the ruling?

Or, will they act like petulant children, throw a tantrum, threaten to secede and generally make asses of themselves?

Hmm. If it happens soon and Abbott is still governor, they will be asses about it.

I’m getting really tired of the tantrums thrown by people upset because someone else might be able to enjoy something they have and like in a way that impacts them very little, if at all. See: SSM, Gamergate, the Hugos kerfluffle, etc.

194 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 3:15:53pm

re: #185 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m reminded of Terry McGovern, George McGovern’s daughter who would eventually freeze to death while drunk in Madison, WI. Sometimes even the best parenting can’t help.

Yeah, but we don’t know if its really the “best” parenting, do we? Privilege can get kids out of trouble when they need to face consequences, so they never really learn.

And it’s really not the same. Terry McGovern was a mature adult at 45 and had been drinking for years, a full-blown alcoholic.

195 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 3:16:29pm

re: #187 blueraven

Charles, have you done something new with the comment (+, -, report etc..) buttons?
They kind of rollover when I hover now.

If you reload that won’t happen. I’m messing around with CSS transitions. If you hover over a link, it now fades from one state to another, but that wasn’t supposed to happen with those comment buttons. (And now it won’t.)

196 William Lewis  Apr 22, 2015 3:19:14pm

re: #194 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, but we don’t know if its really the “best” parenting, do we? Privilege can get kids out of trouble when they need to face consequences, so they never really learn.

And it’s really not the same. Terry McGovern was a mature adult at 45 and had been drinking for years, a full-blown alcoholic.

She was a full blow alcoholic in her early 20s during the infamous 1972 campaign. She hid it well apparently but nonetheless…

articles.latimes.com

If his life doesn’t change, he’ll be like that only sooner.

197 wrenchwench  Apr 22, 2015 3:19:26pm

The flash mob sang five songs and also happy birthday. Campbell turns 79 today

198 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 3:20:16pm

re: #170 Backwoods_Sleuth

ooops!

[EX 18 News ✔ @LEX18News
Follow
Presidential Candidate’s Son Cited For Operating Vehicle Under Influence bit.ly ]

Wow, big surprise there! He looks like trouble.

“You all right! I learned it by watching you.”*

*Bonus points for anyone that knows where these lines are from.

199 blueraven  Apr 22, 2015 3:20:31pm

re: #195 Charles Johnson

If you reload that won’t happen. I’m messing around with CSS transitions. If you hover over a link, it now fades from one state to another, but that wasn’t supposed to happen with those comment buttons. (And now it won’t.)

Oh, I kinda liked it!

200 Great White Snark  Apr 22, 2015 3:24:11pm

Well again I find myself at honest odds with many here. Dislike that but it is what it is.

I work with Armenians frequently. Those from Russian the old Soviet bloc, or the M.E. Syria, Lebanon etc. They are a big presence in the LA jewelry biz downtown. So much so we jokingly call it not Little Armenia but Little Glendale. Lots of time spent with Armenian friends and lots of conversations about the genocide (FU Turkey). I find it a shame that our Presidents year after year find some reason to avoid what is so well proven. If Armenia were not such a small nation, of such humble resources and so little global influence this would not even be a question. Turkey would simply have been forced to suffer whatever tantrum they would suffer should the proper proclamations ever be made.

My opinion comes from people I respect highly. Grandsons of victims.

We can talk about Chuck, worry about the wingnuts, the necessity of cooperation from Turkey. None of that changes the truth of the matter. The genocide was real, and to deny it or stop short of acknowledging it just puts politics over the truth, given more consideration than the ethics.

Each and every President who balks at this simple pro humanitarian gesture is quite simply on the wrong side of the argument.

‘It’s Impossible To Forget’: Descendants Of Armenian Genocide Want Legacy Of Those Killed To Live On

ISTANBUL — Mari Tomasyan was born into a family of ghosts. In 1915, just a few years before she was born, Ottoman Turks forced 35 of her relatives on a death march toward the Syrian Desert. Only a few survived.

Now, at 95, she clings to the past with a quiet strength. As almost a century of memories begin to fade with age, she hands down the past to her own children and grandchildren.

“These scary things, they disappeared over time,” she said in her family home in Istanbul, recalling the intense fear that consumed her childhood. “But the genocide is not forgotten. It’s impossible to forget.”

Tomasyan’s relatives were just a handful of an estimated 1.5 million Christian Armenians killed between 1915 and 1917, according to Armenians, news reports from the time and historians.
huffingtonpost.com

201 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 3:24:15pm

re: #198 ObserverArt

…

202 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 3:25:08pm

Carly Fiorina To Announce Candidacy for CEO of United States

will propose u.s. consolidate by selling off software sector, automobiles, and negroes

203 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 3:26:23pm

Evacuations increased to include 20-kilometer radius surrounding Calbuco volcano in Chile - @onemichile
end of alert

…

204 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 3:27:49pm

Gay tourism and bible tourism clash in Arkansas

Tens of thousands of visitors attend a Passion Play near Eureka Springs, but the town also is being promoted as the “gay capital of the Ozarks.” And a religious leader says that is scaring away Christian visitors.

205 EmmaAnne  Apr 22, 2015 3:31:46pm

re: #200 Great White Snark

Well again I find myself at honest odds with many here. Dislike that but it is what it is.

I think most people here agree with you (I do) and most presidents as well. The reason the word isn’t used is because Turkey goes ballistic and we need them. Realpolitik and nothing else. We do the same dance with China and Tibet. And frankly other countries have to tiptoe around our atrocities because they need us. It sucks.

206 William Lewis  Apr 22, 2015 3:33:46pm

Anyone here know much about Epiphone Les Paul Guitars?

I’m leaning towards picking up a Standard Plus Top Pro when the tax refund comes in. I want a nice humbucker guitar to complement the Telecaster and this looks like a good “split the difference” in the bang/buck category:

But the whole Epiphone/Gibson guitar world is a different one to me as I’ve always been around Fender types and of course my only guitar is a Squier Telecaster.

Anyone want to chime in on how good this one is?

207 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 3:35:44pm

re: #206 William Barnett-Lewis

Anyone here know much about Epiphone Les Paul Guitars?

I’m leaning towards picking up a Standard Plus Top Pro when the tax refund comes in. I want a nice humbucker guitar to complement the Telecaster and this looks like a good “split the difference” in the bang/buck category:

[Embedded content]

But the whole Epiphone/Gibson guitar world is a different one to me as I’ve always been around Fender types and of course my only guitar is a Squier Telecaster.

Anyone want to chime in on how good this one is?

As I understand it, the Epiphone is to Gibson as the Squire is to Fender. Made out of country, of lesser quality materials. YMMV.

208 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 3:36:04pm

re: #200 Great White Snark

Well again I find myself at honest odds with many here. Dislike that but it is what it is.

I work with Armenians frequently. Those from Russian the old Soviet bloc, or the M.E. Syria, Lebanon etc. They are a big presence in the LA jewelry biz downtown. So much so we jokingly call it not Little Armenia but Little Glendale. Lots of time spent with Armenian friends and lots of conversations about the genocide (FU Turkey). I find it a shame that our Presidents year after year find some reason to avoid what is so well proven. If Armenia were not such a small nation, of such humble resources and so little global influence this would not even be a question. Turkey would simply have been forced to suffer whatever tantrum they would suffer should the proper proclamations ever be made.

My opinion comes from people I respect highly. Grandsons of victims.

We can talk about Chuck, worry about the wingnuts, the necessity of cooperation from Turkey. None of that changes the truth of the matter. The genocide was real, and to deny it or stop short of acknowledging it just puts politics over the truth, given more consideration than the ethics.

Each and every President who balks at this simple pro humanitarian gesture is quite simply on the wrong side of the argument.

If it is well proven, what is gained by saying to the Turks you are a genocidal nation?

If it is well proven, what is lost by saying to the Turks you are a genocidal nation?

Do you suggest we call the Turks out and suffer the political fallout and have no help with them kicking ISIS to the curb?

You mention your Armenian friends, but you didn’t give any mention as to how much this bothers them. Does it? Or, does it bother you?

Sorry for the questions.

209 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 3:37:26pm

re: #206 William Barnett-Lewis

The above said, I’ve played a couple of Epiphones and know some friends in bands who have them, and they seem to play well. I’d get a good guitar tech to give it a once-over after you get it, to check the wiring and stuff. I had one work on my Fender Tele a few months ago, and the difference in sound was night and day.

210 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 3:40:59pm

Also happening today:

Florida House passes bill requiring 24-hour waiting period for abortions

NC abortion wait expanded to 72 hours in House proposal

24 hours… then 72 hours… then … never.

211 William Lewis  Apr 22, 2015 3:42:11pm

re: #207 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Yeah, I don’t consider that an inherently bad thing - the Indonesian made Squier I have is a very nice guitar that shocked a pro I know that I showed it to. He felt I got a really good bargain on it. If Epiphone relates to Gibson that well, I’d be a happy camper :)

212 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 3:43:10pm

re: #200 Great White Snark

I don’t think you really are getting my point, though. I completely agree that genocide is the correct way to describe what happened to the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans. But do you really believe the President should make a point of using that word even if it leads to a diplomatic break with Turkey — right at the time when we need their assistance to deal with the Syrian civil war and with ISIS?

A lot of people’s lives hang in the balance - this isn’t just a simple matter of right and wrong, unfortunately. Forcing a break with a NATO ally over this doesn’t make sense at this point in time, and that’s why Obama decided not to use the word “genocide.” I don’t like it, either, but I understand why it’s necessary.

213 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 3:44:34pm

NY Daily News has a more … dirt sheet … take on that Eureka Springs ordinance:

Serial rapist advocates against Arkansas city’s LGBT protections

A Baptist preacher, one of the leading opponents of gay rights protections passed in Eureka Springs, Ark., is a serial rapist.

214 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Apr 22, 2015 3:45:49pm

re: #212 Charles Johnson

I don’t think you really are getting my point, though. I completely agree that genocide is the correct way to describe what happened to the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans. But do you really believe the President should make a point of using that word even if it leads to a diplomatic break with Turkey — right at the time when we need their assistance to deal with the Syrian civil war and with ISIS?

A lot of people’s lives hang in the balance - this isn’t just a simple matter of right and wrong, unfortunately. Forcing a break with a NATO ally over this doesn’t make sense at this point in time, and that’s why Obama decided not to use the word “genocide.” I don’t like it, either, but I understand why it’s necessary.

I think that for a lot of people, the metric would be very different if it were an ongoing massacre. For better or for worse, it is in the past. The Syria conflict, and the deaths we would like to see prevented, are the present.

215 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 3:46:06pm

re: #206 William Barnett-Lewis

Anyone here know much about Epiphone Les Paul Guitars?

I’m leaning towards picking up a Standard Plus Top Pro when the tax refund comes in. I want a nice humbucker guitar to complement the Telecaster and this looks like a good “split the difference” in the bang/buck category:

Embedded Image

But the whole Epiphone/Gibson guitar world is a different one to me as I’ve always been around Fender types and of course my only guitar is a Squier Telecaster.

Anyone want to chime in on how good this one is?

The guy I jam with has an Epiphone Les Paul Custom Prophecy Plus and it is a real nice guitar. It has active pickups and I am not sure they still make them. He has a dark blue transparent finish over a nice couple hunks of maple.

He also has an Epiphone Casino. Epiphone guitars are usually a pretty good buy for the money. I was checking out the price range that particular model costs and I would say it is in the price range to be a pretty good guitar.

216 Great White Snark  Apr 22, 2015 3:47:24pm

re: #208 ObserverArt

If it is well proven, what is gained by saying to the Turks you are a genocidal nation?

Let’s not say “are” as if the genocide was ongoing. What should be said is along the lines of what is said about the Nazi genocide against the jews. Acknowledge the reality and push back on the craven deniers, in this instance Turks.

If it is well proven, what is lost by saying to the Turks you are a genocidal nation?

Do you suggest we call the Turks out and suffer the political fallout and have no help with them kicking ISIS to the curb?

2fer-With the caveat above, what is lost is rather speculative. I’m far from sure Turkey would not still cooperate against an enemy that is a clear threat to them as well. But we can only guess at this.

You mention your Armenian friends, but you didn’t give any mention as to how much this bothers them. Does it? Or, does it bother you?

Long conversations. Yes they are fairly pissed that our Presidents don’t step and do the right thing. They are as impacted emotionally as any culture that has suffered an attempted murder by extinction.

Sorry for the questions.
Don’t be, I posted with a willingness to discuss it. Again what would be seen as a far more legit point in the general media is distorted and muddied by personalities like Chuck. Ugh.

My question is for Turkey-What harm comes to your current culture and administration by simply accepting the errors of the past as such and working to prevent more of the same in the future.? Perhaps by attacking DAESH along with us and other allies. Join the larger community of nations that have accepted their historical sins and work to improve the present.

217 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 3:51:05pm

re: #176 No Country For Old Haters

What’s weird about that haircut?

218 goddamnedfrank  Apr 22, 2015 3:52:04pm

re: #208 ObserverArt

If it is well proven, what is gained by saying to the Turks you are a genocidal nation?

Also, it’s more like saying the parent or grandparent of the the modern Republic of Turkey, the Ottoman Empire, was a genocidal nation. Kind of like how we don’t go about rubbing the modern Japanese government’s face in the Rape of Nanking. Yes, it’s fucked up that neither government has come to terms with the past really at all, let alone to the degree that say, Germany has. Germany has set the bar pretty high when it comes to wallowing in one’s own shame. Nobody beats them when it comes to public displays of regret.

Anyway, yeah, fucked up but kind of understandable when you take a look a the damned map and see that long shared border with Syria.

219 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 3:55:46pm

I can see it now. They sit around praying for Jesus to save them while they die from not being vaccinated and can’t figure out how to fix anything because they’ve all got worthless degrees from Christian universities.

220 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 3:56:38pm

re: #198 ObserverArt

You mean there’s anyone who doesn’t remember Partnership for a Drug-Free America ads?

I think that particular one was around 1989…?

221 Great White Snark  Apr 22, 2015 3:57:55pm

re: #212 Charles Johnson

I don’t think you really are getting my point, though. I completely agree that genocide is the correct way to describe what happened to the Armenians at the hands of the Ottomans. But do you really believe the President should make a point of using that word even if it leads to a diplomatic break with Turkey — right at the time when we need their assistance to deal with the Syrian civil war and with ISIS?

A lot of people’s lives hang in the balance - this isn’t just a simple matter of right and wrong, unfortunately. Forcing a break with a NATO ally over this doesn’t make sense at this point in time, and that’s why Obama decided not to use the word “genocide.” I don’t like it, either, but I understand why it’s necessary.

First, this is the latest in a long string of years where our administrations make this mistake. I don’t accept as a given that the consequences would actually be that severe, or that even if so we could not cope and repair relations via mutual interests over time. Every year there seems to be some compelling reason to demur. I’m sorry at some point the facts of history just must be accepted. Funny how this seems, any one year (like this one) seems like no big deal, compelling reasons to not upset the Turks, there is always next year. or the next, then the next maybe.

After enough years, it’s become a visually permanent policy, and still just as wrong. Maybe more so. Genocide is one of those things that is so far beyond the pale of conduct that the usual rules “lets get along like good diplomats” do not apply. Nor should. So maybe this year is not the best year for the change. But when? How little must we need Turkey to simply say the right words?

Reluctantly given all the factors, but I stand firm. Maybe I chose my year poorly to say so again, but like I said sincere friends have convinced me over the years we gotta do this. Long term I think we all come out ahead.

222 goddamnedfrank  Apr 22, 2015 3:58:19pm

re: #218 goddamnedfrank

And if one refuses to draw a distinction between the Ottomans and modern Turkey by saying they’re all Turks that’s a very dangerous road to go down. It implies the ethnicity itself has something to answer for. I get that the Republic of Turkey kind of invites this attack by steadfastly refusing to acknowledge that this past war crime even occurred, but that doesn’t really negate the point.

223 Great White Snark  Apr 22, 2015 4:00:42pm

re: #222 goddamnedfrank

And if one refuses to draw a distinction between the Ottomans and modern Turkey by saying they’re all Turks that’s a very dangerous road to go down…

That would be deeply wrong.

224 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:03:22pm

Approximately 1500 people have been evacuated.

Ash and smoke plume from Chile’s Calbuco volcano seen at sunset

225 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 4:04:28pm
226 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 4:05:43pm

re: #224 Justanotherhuman

And that’s about the 30th time I’ve had to click a post and wait for a new tab to load before I can see more than the thumbnail.

Charles, is there any way to make pics and tweets automatically show at full height like they used to?

227 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:06:00pm

re: #225 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Lawyer, stat.

228 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 4:07:20pm

re: #219 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I can see it now. They sit around praying for Jesus to save them while they die from not being vaccinated and can’t figure out how to fix anything because they’ve all got worthless degrees from Christian universities.

It’s the usual business:

“Christianity in this country is going to enter a new phase where we are a hated minority group,” she declared, “and I think we had better be psychologically and spiritually prepared for that and be prepared to rebuild from the ruins of the collapse of civilization that we’re witnessing. At least one civilization is over with and what the next phase of American civilization will be is yet to be determined”

Maggie, I hate to break it to you, but your ideological predecessors were telling the faithful this shit a generation ago, when they had to deal with the reality that segregation was going the way of the dodo and anti-miscegenation laws died a rather sudden death after Loving. They all predicted the end of civilization, yet it never came.

If you think that America cannot survive unless bigotry remains the law of the land, then perhaps you might consider it time to go looking for a nation that better fits your beliefs. I hear ISIS is always looking for recruits.

229 goddamnedfrank  Apr 22, 2015 4:08:31pm

Bathroom smells funny.

Oh yeah, asparagus.

/oversharing.

230 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 4:09:00pm

re: #225 Backwoods_Sleuth

231 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 4:09:22pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

Bathroom smells funny.

Oh yeah, asparagus.

/oversharing.

Gohmert is in your bathroom????

232 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 4:09:50pm

re: #172 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Damn Communist free marketing business people.

/

So much for libertarian reverence for makers, eh?

233 darthstar  Apr 22, 2015 4:10:04pm

re: #170 Backwoods_Sleuth

ooops!

[Embedded content]

Vague headline. I fixed it.

234 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 4:12:08pm

re: #233 darthstar

He looks like a chip off the ol’ blockhead.

235 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:13:19pm

I know #FergusonFireside will be interested in this, as will others:
…
Here’s an interview with the director:
'It's better to be in the company of seven devils than one policeman' | Public Radio International

236 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 4:13:36pm

re: #218 goddamnedfrank

Also, it’s more like saying the parent or grandparent of the the modern Republic of Turkey, the Ottoman Empire, was a genocidal nation. Kind of like how we don’t go about rubbing the modern Japanese government’s face in the Rape of Nanking. Yes, it’s fucked up that neither government has come to terms with the past really at all, let alone to the degree that say, Germany has. Germany has set the bar pretty high when it comes to wallowing in one’s own shame. Nobody beats them when it comes to public displays of regret.

Anyway, yeah, fucked up but kind of understandable when you take a look a the damned map and see that long shared border with Syria.

on the other hand modern germans tend to be very eager to confront the holocaust and condemn it

237 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:13:40pm

re: #230 freetoken

[Embedded content]

Popeye’s has a brand to uphold.

The franchisee can hide and fire pregnant women who are robbed and try to rob their paychecks,

238 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 4:13:44pm

re: #226 Chrysicat

And that’s about the 30th time I’ve had to click a post and wait for a new tab to load before I can see more than the thumbnail.

Charles, is there any way to make pics and tweets automatically show at full height like they used to?

It’s a bug in Firefox - it often doesn’t adjust the size of embedded tweets properly. Unfortunately, I can’t fix it - it’s not something I control, it’s Firefox. There’s no problem in Chrome or Safari.

239 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 4:14:24pm

tpp is heating up as a topic but i cant say i know why it is supposed to be bad except in a uselessly general way, that is, “it’s bad for workers”

anybody gots details?

240 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 4:14:52pm

re: #233 darthstar

Vague headline. I fixed it.

[Embedded content]

And what do you wanna bet he’ll get far more lenient treatment than if he was a poor white guy, let alone a poor black guy?

241 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:14:56pm

re: #238 Charles Johnson

It’s a bug in Firefox - it often doesn’t adjust the size of embedded tweets properly. Unfortunately, I can’t fix it - it’s not something I control, it’s Firefox. There’s no problem in Chrome or Safari.

Is there a way to report it to Mozilla so it gets fixed in the next update?

Alternately, get Chrome to stop being such a memory hog?

242 goddamnedfrank  Apr 22, 2015 4:15:20pm

re: #233 darthstar

Also that time he hanged a stray dog.

243 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 4:16:32pm

Alice is now up

244 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 4:16:45pm

re: #238 Charles Johnson

Mmmm. I’ll try going back to Chrome, then, even though it has its own bug where half the time the script for the posting window makes me have to wait almost a minute for every line of text I type. Thanks for at least telling me where the trouble was coming from, though!

245 darthstar  Apr 22, 2015 4:18:06pm
246 Chrysicat  Apr 22, 2015 4:18:49pm

re: #239 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Well, the content modifiers are concerned that it’ll be used as a camel’s nose under the tent to introduce copyright protection equal to SOPA/PIPA…

but I’m not sure if that’s a legit concern or not. I will agree that half of what I look at on the Net is modified content, so if they’re right I’ll be less than thrilled.

247 darthstar  Apr 22, 2015 4:18:51pm

re: #240 Targetpractice

And what do you wanna bet he’ll get far more lenient treatment than if he was a poor white guy, let alone a poor black guy?

If he was a poor black guy we’d need video.

248 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 4:20:30pm

re: #244 Chrysicat

I too occasionally have trouble using Chrome and posting. It seems to get hung up for a few to many seconds.

Chrome on the whole is getting more and more obese. The other day I looked and with single tab in a single window open, Chrome was using 1.5Gb of real memory!

249 Bubblehead II  Apr 22, 2015 4:22:05pm

Hey BWS, You getting this interview this time?

impact89fm.org

250 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:22:57pm

re: #235 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Wow, this is really extreme.

“The film, which de Guzman made with reporter Tim Pool, details the system of discriminatory policing in the St. Louis area that stretches back years before Michael Brown’s death. At one point in the documentary, Pool describes the city 1960s-era white flight, as white residents left the decaying urban core for suburbs that St. Louis, by law, could not annex into the metropolitan area.

“Over time, small independent municipalities formed around the city,” Pool notes in the film. “This fractured political system created 90 municipalities, more than 60 police forces, 81 municipal courts and a justice system that inherited the structural racism of the past.”

“De Guzman says some of these municipalities are less than a square mile and only have a dozen or so people living in them. Yet they have their own police forces and their own court systems.

“All of this grew out of segregation,” de Guzman says. “White people wanted to be separate from black people moving into the city.”

“And the discrimination was apparent the minute he set foot in the municipal courts. “Ninety-eight percent of the people being brought into court were black,” de Guzman says. “They were being fined massive amounts of money for minor infractions, like jaywalking.”

And there were no sidewalks, no cross walks. An utter trap into which people couldn’t avoid walking.

251 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 4:23:25pm

Looks like the Georgia AG isn’t anywhere near as Confederate as Alabama’s:

Sam Olens on gay marriage: Georgia will respect Supreme Court decision

“I disagree 100 percent with those state attorney generals who decided they were part of the judicial branch and not the executive branch,” said Olens. “I think it’s frankly both inconsistent with the Constitution and the laws of the country when state attorneys general want to call balls and strikes.”

How oddly refreshing.

252 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:26:49pm

Editor’s note: CBS News reports that Robert Bates, the Tulsa sheriff’s officer charged in the shooting death of Eric Harris, was the subject of a 2009 investigation in his training. - Tom
end of note

253 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 4:27:32pm

re: #249 Bubblehead II

Hey BWS, You getting this interview this time?

impact89fm.org

yep

254 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 4:27:41pm

was a bit shocked to see a woman in a skirt today

topic: skirts - are they practically extinct?

255 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:28:25pm

re: #254 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

About as extinct as kilts.

256 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 4:28:28pm
257 ObserverArt  Apr 22, 2015 4:29:58pm

re: #239 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

tpp is heating up as a topic but i cant say i know why it is supposed to be bad except in a uselessly general way, that is, “it’s bad for workers”

anybody gots details?

President Obama was on Chris Matthews Hard Ball last night and they discussed it. You might be able to find the video on MSNBC sites or even a YouTube of it.

One of the problems seems to be no one has either been able to and or taken the time to see all the details. Obama claimed last night people haven’t read it and he wasn’t sure why.

He also said he disagreed with Elizabeth Warren and some others. It was a good discussion. There was also a small business panel for a few minutes discussing it.

258 BeachDem  Apr 22, 2015 4:35:37pm

Former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina will launch her campaign for president on May 4, according to The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday…

Fiorina has argued that if Clinton were to face a female Republican in the general election, Clinton wouldn’t be able to use a handful of attacks she could use against a male opponent.

talkingpointsmemo.com

Bless your heart, Carly—once Hillary stops laughing at your delusions of adequacy, she could squash you like the bug you are, regardless of your gender.

Oh—and she’ll even have to share the daily news cycle with another total clown:

Fiorina’s announcement, as it happens, comes on the same day that tea party favorite neurosurgeon Ben Carson plans to announce his candidacy for president in Detroit.

Her “team” says the report about the upcoming Carly announcement isn’t true—I suspect they’re just testing the waters for seismic activity the level of hilarious laughter.

259 Lord Of The Pies  Apr 22, 2015 4:39:15pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Woohoo. Fire HD has arrived.

I got mine today!

260 Lord Of The Pies  Apr 22, 2015 4:40:12pm

re: #190 Justanotherhuman

She also 70 yrs old if you do the math.

I think this is just another RW propaganda site to disseminate their bullshit, probably some 20-something posting whatever they’re told for minimum wage their unpaid internship.

261 BillinGlendaleCA  Apr 22, 2015 4:40:50pm

re: #248 freetoken

Chrome uses a lot of caching. On sites with ads, it caches all of them. Close and reopen Chrome.

262 goddamnedfrank  Apr 22, 2015 4:40:56pm

re: #251 freetoken

Looks like the Georgia AG isn’t anywhere near as Confederate as Alabama’s:

Sam Olens on gay marriage: Georgia will respect Supreme Court decision

How oddly refreshing.

HIs quote is actually meant to call out AG’s like Kamala Harris who refused to continue supporting State laws beyond the initial district or appeals court level defeats. This is how Dennis Hollingsworth’s name is attached to the appeal Hollingsworth v Perry. That case actually started out as Perry v. Schwarzenegger however Brown and Harris came into office having run on election platforms not to defend the law.

Olens is saying he’ll obey the Supreme Court, unlike promises from people like Alabama’s Roy Moore. But he is also saying that the AG’s who refused to continue to fight, because say their Appeals Court Circuit had struck down their state’s law or a near identical law in another state, are wrong.

263 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:41:31pm

re: #259 Lord Of The Pies

Wow, Twitter and FaceFuck are pretty prominent, aren’t they?

264 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 4:41:35pm

re: #249 Bubblehead II

Hey BWS, You getting this interview this time?

impact89fm.org

Found a podcast! MP3 Audio

265 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Apr 22, 2015 4:43:45pm

re: #257 ObserverArt

President Obama was on Chris Matthews Hard Ball last night and they discussed it. You might be able to find the video on MSNBC sites or even a YouTube of it.

One of the problems seems to be no one has either been able to and or taken the time to see all the details. Obama claimed last night people haven’t read it and he wasn’t sure why.

He also said he disagreed with Elizabeth Warren and some others. It was a good discussion. There was also a small business panel for a few minutes discussing it.

here’s a page somebody found on it just now:

dailykos.com

10 Ways that TPP would hurt Working Families

1. TPP will allow corporations to outsource even more jobs overseas.

According to the Economic Policy Institute, if the TPP is agreed to, theU.S. will lose more than 130,000 jobs to Vietnam and Japan alone. But that is just the tip of the iceberg.

o Service Sector Jobs will be lost. At a time when corporations have already outsourced over 3 million service sector jobs in the U.S., TPP includes rules that will make it even easier for corporate America to outsource call centers; computer programming; engineering; accounting; and medical diagnostic jobs.

o Manufacturing jobs will be lost. As a result of NAFTA, the U.S. lost nearly 700,000 jobs. As a result of Permanent Normal TradeRelations with China, the U.S. lost over 2.7 million jobs. As a result of the Korea Free Trade Agreement, the U.S. has lost 70,000 jobs. The TPP would make matters worse by providing special benefits to firms thatoffshore jobs and by reducing the risks associated with operating in low-wage countries.

2. U.S. sovereignty will be undermined by giving corporations the right to challenge our laws before international tribunals.

The TPP creates a special dispute resolution process that allows
corporations to challenge any domestic laws that could adversely impact their “expected future profits.”

These challenges would be heard before UN and World Bank tribunals which could require taxpayer compensation to corporations.

This process undermines our sovereignty and subverts democratically passed laws including those dealing with labor, health, and the environment.

3. Wages, benefits, and collective bargaining will be threatened.

NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, and other free trade agreements have helped drive down the wages and benefits of American workers and have eroded collective bargaining rights.

The TPP will make the race to the bottom worse because it forces American workers to compete with desperate workers in Vietnam where the minimum wage is just 56 cents an hour.

4. Our ability to protect the environment will be undermined.

The TPP will allow corporations to challenge any law that would
adversely impact their future profits. Pending claims worth over $14 billion have been filed based on similar language in other trade agreements. Most of these claims deal with challenges to environmental laws in a number of countries. The TPP will make matters even worse by giving corporations the right to sue any of the nations that sign onto the TPP. These lawsuits would be heard in international tribunals bypassing domestic courts.

5. Food Safety Standards will be threatened.

The TPP would make it easier for countries like Vietnam to export
contaminated fish and seafood into the U.S. The FDA has already prevented hundreds of seafood imports from TPP countries because of salmonella, e-coli, methyl-mercury and drug residues. But the FDA only inspects 1-2 percent of food imports and will be overwhelmed by the vastexpansion of these imports if the TPP is agreed to.

6. Buy America laws could come to an end.

The U.S. has several laws on the books that require the federal
government to buy goods and services that are made in America or mostly made in this country. Under TPP, foreign corporations must be given equal access to compete for these government contracts with companies that make products in America. Under TPP, the U.S. could not even prevent companies that have horrible human rights records from receiving government contracts paid by U.S. taxpayers.

7. Prescription drug prices will increase, access to life saving drugs will decrease, and the profits of drug companies will go up.

Big pharmaceutical companies are working hard to ensure that the TPP extends the monopolies they have for prescription drugs by extending their patents (which currently can last 20 years or more). This would expand the profits of big drug companies, keep drug prices artificially high, and leave millions of people around the world without access to life saving drugs. Doctors without Borders stated that “the TPP agreement is on track to become the most harmful trade pact ever for ?ccess to medicines in developing countries.”

8. Wall Street would benefit at the expense of everyone else.

Under TPP, governments would be barred from imposing “capital
controls” that have been successfully used to avoid financial crises. These controls range from establishing a financial speculation tax to limiting the massive flows of speculative capital flowing into and out of countries responsible for the Asian financial crisis in the 1990s. In other words, the TPP would expand the rights and power of the same Wall Street firms that nearly destroyed the world economy just five years ago and would create the conditions for more financial instability in the future.

Last year, I co-sponsored a bill with Sen. Harkin to create a Wall
Street speculation tax of just 0.03 percent on trades of derivatives, credit default swaps, and large amounts of stock. If TPP were enacted, such a financial speculation tax may be in violation of this trade agreement.

9. The TPP would reward authoritarian regimes like Vietnam that systematically violate human rights.

The State Department, the U.S. Department of Labor, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International have all documented Vietnam’s widespread violations of basic international standards for human rights.Yet, the TPP would reward Vietnam’s bad behavior by giving it duty free access to the U.S. market.

10. The TPP has no expiration date, making it virtually impossible to repeal.

Once TPP is agreed to, it has no sunset date and could only be altered by a consensus of all of the countries that agreed to it. Other countries, like China, could be allowed to join in the future. For example, Canada and Mexico joined TPP negotiations in 2012 and Japan joined last year.

266 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:44:13pm

re: #258 BeachDem
…

I need to make a smaller gif of this.

267 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:46:33pm

A jaywalking ticket is $500 in Ferguson and other collar communities around STL. You’d also get a Failure to Use a Crosswalk ticket at the same time, which is another $500.

268 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 4:47:59pm

re: #256 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Hell no, he’d be occupying a cell, likely with a few new bruises for “resisting arrest.”

269 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:48:21pm

And these folks are doing yeoman’s work:
archcitydefenders.org

270 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 4:49:07pm
271 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:51:10pm

Cities include increased fines in the budget when they see they’re going to have a budget shortfall.

This docu is incredibly aggravating.

272 Justanotherhuman  Apr 22, 2015 4:51:56pm

Later, Lizards!

Keep calm…

273 BeachDem  Apr 22, 2015 4:52:24pm

The best comment at TPM about Carly’s upcoming announcement:

On May 4, we will finally hear what a tree falling in a forest when nobody is there to hear it, sounds like.

274 Varek Raith  Apr 22, 2015 4:52:31pm

re: #266 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

[Embedded content]

I need to make a smaller gif of this.

*Chucks rock in Potomac River*

275 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 22, 2015 4:53:25pm

I was raised poor in a California trailer park. My army class A uniform was the first tailored suit of clothes I ever had.
I pulled myself up too, with no handouts, except the publicly funded schools that provided me with a good enough basic education to be admitted to Cornell when I got out of the Army, and the GI Bill and a hefty private scholarship from various liberals that paid my tuition. Oh, and public highways and roads so I could get where I needed to be, not to mention USGS maps and surveys (worth billions of dollars) that I could use for free in my business, and the publicly funded cops and game wardens who kept us from being killed by brigands or eaten by wolves when we were out prospecting or surveying and the scientific research that created the basic markets and know-how that made it worthwhile and medical research that keeps me healthy and productive to this day.

These lepertarian ignorami are stealing from others when they claim sole credit for whatever they have achieved.

276 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 4:55:09pm
277 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:56:11pm

re: #275 Shiplord Kirel

Speaking of lepertarians, Nick Gillespie is a leather jacket-wearing hypocrite motherfucker:
Nick Gillespie Is a Rich Son of a Bitch

278 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 4:57:26pm

re: #276 Kragar

No insurance?! WTF!? Dad doesn’t have enough to float him some funds so he doesn’t fuck up someone else’s life with an accident so they have to file on insurance? What if they only have liability - they’re screwed.

279 Kragar  Apr 22, 2015 5:01:25pm

re: #278 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

“Upon contact, the subject had a strong odor of alcohol on or about his person,” the Lexington Police Department citation said. “Subject had bloodshot, watery eyes, slurred speech and was belligerent.”

Before being issued the citation, Paul refused a blood test and then failed a field sobriety test, according to the citation. He was also charged with not having insurance, and a court date has been set for May 12.

Issued a citation.

If he had been a black guy, the cops would have had him chewing pavement and spitting out teeth.

280 Lidane  Apr 22, 2015 5:01:35pm

Please proceed:

On Monday, in an interview with Glenn Beck, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker staked a new position in the Republican Party argument over immigration. “In terms of legal immigration, how we need to approach that going forward is saying—the next president and the next Congress need to make decisions about a legal immigration system that’s based on, first and foremost, on protecting American workers and American wages,” he said, “It is a fundamentally lost issue by many in elected positions today—is what is this doing for American workers looking for jobs, what is this doing to wages, and we need to have that be at the forefront of our discussion going forward.”

Yes, Scott. Let’s demonize the legal immigrants who come here to work and to create new lives for themselves.

What could possibly go wrong?

281 freetoken  Apr 22, 2015 5:03:00pm

re: #280 Lidane

He’s going for the PaleoPat crowd.

282 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 5:04:59pm

re: #279 Kragar

Issued a citation.

If he had been a black guy, the cops would have had him chewing pavement and spitting out teeth.

Shit, if you refuse a breathalizer and a blood test, it’s pretty much assumed you are DUI around here. Not sure how Kentucky’s laws are.

283 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 5:05:09pm

re: #280 Lidane

Please proceed:

[Embedded content]

Yes, Scott. Let’s demonize the legal immigrants who come here to work and to create new lives for themselves.

What could possibly go wrong?

Scotty, watch out for that….

*THWACK!*

rake. Too late.

284 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 5:05:31pm

re: #279 Kragar

Issued a citation.

If he had been a black guy, the cops would have had him chewing pavement and spitting out teeth.

Affluenza strikes again.

285 Higgs Boson's Mate  Apr 22, 2015 5:05:43pm

re: #265 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

I’ve read bits and pieces about the TPP along the way. I was astonished that this turd is coming from a Democratic administration.

286 Varek Raith  Apr 22, 2015 5:07:00pm

re: #282 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Shit, if you refuse a breathalizer and a blood test, it’s pretty much assumed you are DUI around here. Not sure how Kentucky’s laws are.

You or I would’ve had our dumbasses thrown in jail.

287 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 22, 2015 5:07:49pm

Kentucky DUI law and penalties:
transportation.ky.gov

License Suspension for Refusal to Take Alcohol or Subsequent Tests
It should be noted that all of the offenses listed below are for refusals within a five year period.
1st Offense 30 to 120 Days
2nd Offense 12 to 18 Months
3rd Offense 24 to 36 Months
4th Offense or subsequent-60 Months

288 TedStriker  Apr 22, 2015 5:09:00pm

re: #278 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

No insurance?! WTF!? Dad doesn’t have enough to float him some funds so he doesn’t fuck up someone else’s life with an accident so they have to file on insurance? What if they only have liability - they’re screwed.

In someone else’s car, no less.

289 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 5:10:18pm

re: #288 TedStriker

In someone else’s car, no less.


Stig does not approve.
290 Skip Intro  Apr 22, 2015 5:10:50pm

What? You guys expect libertarians to obey government rules?

291 TedStriker  Apr 22, 2015 5:12:06pm

re: #279 Kragar

Issued a citation.

If he had been a black guy, the cops would have had him chewing pavement and spitting out teeth.

re: #282 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Shit, if you refuse a breathalizer and a blood test, it’s pretty much assumed you are DUI around here. Not sure how Kentucky’s laws are.

re: #284 Targetpractice

Affluenza strikes again.

re: #286 Varek Raith

You or I would’ve had our dumbasses thrown in jail.

re: #287 Backwoods_Sleuth

Kentucky DUI law and penalties:
transportation.ky.gov

Just proof that it still pays to be a connected white guy in America…

292 Targetpractice  Apr 22, 2015 5:12:22pm

Why do I get this feeling that, at some point during the arrest, the words “DO YOU KNOW WHO MY FATHER IS?!” were said?

293 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 5:14:18pm

re: #292 Targetpractice

Why do I get this feeling that, at some point during the arrest, the words “DO YOU KNOW WHO MY FATHER IS?!” were said?

I want someone to FOIA the dashcam video.

294 makeitstop  Apr 22, 2015 5:14:54pm

re: #206 William Barnett-Lewis

Anyone here know much about Epiphone Les Paul Guitars?

I’m leaning towards picking up a Standard Plus Top Pro when the tax refund comes in. I want a nice humbucker guitar to complement the Telecaster and this looks like a good “split the difference” in the bang/buck category:

Embedded Image

But the whole Epiphone/Gibson guitar world is a different one to me as I’ve always been around Fender types and of course my only guitar is a Squier Telecaster.

Anyone want to chime in on how good this one is?

I’ve got a few Epiphones, but they’re mostly from the 80s. I’ve played some newer ones, and their build quality is very consistent. The only thing that I really don’t like about them is the thick poly finishes they put on them now. They resist damage really well, but they just look like big ol’ guitar-shaped lollipops to me.

OTOH, the coil tapping on the Trad Pro will keep single-coil tones within reach. :)

295 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Apr 22, 2015 5:16:42pm
Carly for President!
296 stpaulbear  Apr 22, 2015 5:18:21pm

re: #213 freetoken

NY Daily News has a more … dirt sheet … take on that Eureka Springs ordinance:

Serial rapist advocates against Arkansas city’s LGBT protections

One of the women he raped was 80 years old. She was so badly beaten that they had trouble recognizing her.

This man is a fucking Baptist preacher who’s making videos against giving gay people legal protections. Unfuckingbelievable.

297 Charles Johnson  Apr 22, 2015 5:18:23pm

OK, since the TPP discussion is heating up, I posted a new thread on it. I’m not sure where I stand yet.

298 garzooma  Apr 22, 2015 5:29:13pm

re: #208 ObserverArt

You mention your Armenian friends, but you didn’t give any mention as to how much this bothers them. Does it?

I can help you with that. I’m an Armenian who, unlike some around here, supported Obama in 2008. It seemed an easy enough decision to make given the mess the Republicans made of the country. But given the strong support he gave to Genocide acknowledgement, including this video by Samantha Power, I was prompted to help out by passing the video along to other Armenians. Check out the section starting at 1:20 where Power talks about Obama’s “willingness to challenge conventional wisdom.”

So, yeah, you could say it bothers me.

299 makeitstop  Apr 22, 2015 5:35:19pm

re: #259 Lord Of The Pies

I got mine today!

[Embedded content]

We got ours, too!

What was weird - once I charged it and turned it on, I found that it was already set up with the same apps and settings as my other Kindle. I guess they kept track of all that stuff through my Amazon account and set it up for me, since I was the one who ordered it.

It’s already replaced the Squeezebox as our internet radio.

300 Romantic Heretic  Apr 22, 2015 5:36:03pm

re: #188 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

OT, but the airplane/military geeks will enjoy this bit of mil-pr0n:
Check Out This Royal Air Force Typhoon With A Battle Of Britain Paintjob

When you said Typhoon this was what I thought of. One of the best ground support aircraft of all time.

301 electrotek  Apr 22, 2015 7:01:33pm

Good lord, I hate Twitter sometimes:

302 retired cynic  Apr 22, 2015 7:42:14pm

re: #238 Charles Johnson

It’s a bug in Firefox - it often doesn’t adjust the size of embedded tweets properly. Unfortunately, I can’t fix it - it’s not something I control, it’s Firefox. There’s no problem in Chrome or Safari.

It happens to me _sometimes_ in Safari. I’ll live.


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