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172 comments
1 KerFuFFler  May 16, 2015 11:40:47am

I guess after all the serious death penalty debate people just aren’t ready to comment on a funny video. This new thread has been up for minutes and no comments??? I even type slow….

2 urbanmeemaw  May 16, 2015 11:47:43am

I love Amy Schumer and that skit. Especially the psychotic owls.

3 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 11:47:52am

That usually means there’s an argument going on in another thread. :)

4 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 11:49:11am
5 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 11:50:05am

I wish:

6 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 11:52:36am

re: #1 KerFuFFler

I guess after all the serious death penalty debate people just aren’t ready to comment on a funny video. This new thread has been up for minutes and no comments??? I even type slow….

Fed up with Republicans’ attempts to privatize all forms of public transportation.

About 60 people die in privately owned vehicle crashes perday compared to 5556 deaths over 15 yrs via train travel in the US.

7 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 11:53:31am

re: #3 Charles Johnson

That usually means there’s an argument going on in another thread. :)

I’ve been having thread crashes in Chrome while trying to answer that one. Finally got my $.02 in before it crashed again.

8 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 11:57:28am

For those of you possibly experiencing Spring:

9 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 11:59:07am

re: #7 William Lewis

I’ve been having thread crashes in Chrome while trying to answer that one. Finally got my $.02 in before it crashed again.

Well, I’m through with someone coming in to pose a question and not actually looking for facts.

Republicans will continue to starve infrastructure. Imagine what we could have done with some of the $3T cost of invading Iraq and its fall out to address some of those infrastructure failings.

10 retired cynic  May 16, 2015 12:00:35pm

re: #9 Justanotherhuman

Imagine what we could have done with some of the $3T cost of invading Iraq and its fall out to address some of those infrastructure failings.

Think of what that would have done for the economy!

11 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 12:03:48pm

re: #9 Justanotherhuman

Well, I’m through with someone coming in to pose a question and not actually looking for facts.

Republicans will continue to starve infrastructure. Imagine what we could have done with some of the $3T cost of invading Iraq and its fall out to address some of those infrastructure failings.

Wouldn’t have been spent on that though. It would have been wasted on other GOP priorities and wars elsewhere instead. Or given away in tax cuts to those who need them least.

I wonder if if felt something like this when the people in Rome heard of the German tribes crossing the frozen Rhine on 31 December 406?

12 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:05:11pm

re: #10 retired cynic

Think of what that would have done for the economy!

Oh, some people built their fortunes on it, but it didn’t really “trickle down” to the rest of us. It just threw the rest of us into a major recession plus having to bail them out of their own greedy failures.

And too many of us still haven’t caught back up to even the pre-Iraq War level we might have been at.

13 retired cynic  May 16, 2015 12:07:05pm

re: #12 Justanotherhuman

I’m agreeing with you! That money spent on the country’s infrastructure would have had terrific results for energy usage, labor, business efficiency. No end to the benefits!

14 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 12:09:43pm

Relocated from the previous thread:

re: #473 William Lewis

Do remember that is from the capital expenditures budget (which they claim has no impact on safety) not the operations budget. The actual budget was passed 2008 in the wake of another deadly crash. That bill ran out in 2013 and has been limping along ever since.

washingtonpost.com

Given the status of the infrastructure, claiming that capital expenditure cuts don’t impact safety is quite the despicable statement however.

The use of Amtrak as a political football for partisan purposes will continue by both parties and the only thing that will change is the number of deaths of riders that will get used by each side to score budget points rather than as a wake up call to the fact that our nation is disintegrating because of the anti-tax greed of the puppet masters of the House majority party.

The Dems can’t really use that argument, William, seeing as how the engine that derailed was manufactured last year and was up-to-date on its maintenance.

Of course, it is possible that some of the engine’s parts were defective, especially if they came from China (counterfeit parts are a serious problem when dealing with Chinese suppliers). But the train crash may have had nothing at all to do with the train’s equipment and it really is distasteful to lay blame before the facts are known.

15 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 12:11:31pm

gonna go play in the rain or something for awhile…

16 darthstar  May 16, 2015 12:11:55pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

Relocated from the previous thread:

The Dems can’t really use that argument, William, seeing as how the engine that derailed was manufactured last year and was up-to-date on its maintenance.

Of course, it is possible that some of the engine’s parts were defective, especially if they came from China (counterfeit parts are a serious problem when dealing with Chinese suppliers). But the train crash may have had nothing at all to do with the train’s equipment and it really is distasteful to lay blame before the facts are known.

It’s not the trains, it’s the rails.

17 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:12:21pm

re: #11 William Lewis

Hell, the Rs don’t want to even fund the VA to levels it needs.

Just keep sending people back into the meat grinders they want.

18 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:14:16pm

re: #16 darthstar

It’s not the trains, it’s the rails.

Except everyone acknowledges that the curve in question simply can’t be designed to be safely transit at that speed. Deferred infrastructure maintenance remains a very serious issue, but I don’t see how it played into this crash.

19 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 12:18:08pm

Which funding source pays for the sensors that would have automatically slowed the train down before it got to the curve? If that had been in place, we wouldn’t be wondering what caused this accident, because it wouldn’t have happened.

20 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 12:18:17pm
21 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:18:38pm

“Positive train control” system is required by federal law to be installed on all passenger and major freight railroads by the end of 2015.

If that had been done already, this crash would more than likely not have happened.

Amtrak says it will be done before the deadline.

22 De Kolta Chair  May 16, 2015 12:19:26pm

They offered… they offered me pinot.

23 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:19:50pm

You could argue that the overpasses above the tracks need to have high fences to prevent rock throwing, that’s a nominal kind of infrastructure improvement that might have helped.

24 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:21:08pm

Heh.

25 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 12:21:46pm

For Dark_Falcon…for a question he asked downstairs.

—cut—

Mitt Romney, too, targeted Amtrak for cuts when he ran for president in 2012. “Amtrak ought to stand on its own feet or its own wheels or whatever you’d say,” he said at the time.

Republican presidents have also been in on the assault. President George W. Bush submitted a budget proposal in 2005 that aimed to zero out all federal subsidies for Amtrak. President Ronald Reagan did likewise in all eight budgets he submitted to Congress, and his budget director, David Stockman, called Amtrak a “mobile, money-burning machine” and an “amenity that the nation cannot afford and can readily do without.” President Richard Nixon is said to have had to overcome intense opposition from within his own administration to create the system in 1970.

—cut—

Link:Mother Jones: In Washington, Amtrak’s funding has long been under threat

Dark, I know it is Mother Jones, so I am thinking you will claim it is leftist biased or something, but that is your choice to ignore.

26 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:22:22pm

re: #21 Justanotherhuman

“Positive train control” system is required by federal law to be installed on all passenger and major freight railroads by the end of 2015.

If that had been done already, this crash would more than likely not have happened.

Amtrak says it will be done before the deadline.

True. I also don’t get why that can’t be implemented fairly cheaply via GPS. At the very least an audible alarm could be sounded saying “Hey motherfucker, you’re going too fast.”

27 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:22:32pm

re: #22 De Kolta Chair

And why wouldn’t the brothers have just drunk their own piss? : )

28 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 12:23:37pm
29 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:23:58pm

re: #25 ObserverArt

For Dark_Falcon…for a question he asked downstairs.

Link:Mother Jones: In Washington, Amtrak’s funding has long been under threat

Dark, I know it is Mother Jones, so I am thinking you will claim it is leftist biased or something, but that is your choice to ignore.

Yeah, let’s double the number of fatalities in auto crashes every year, shall we?

30 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:24:27pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

MRAs are the whiniest group I’ve ever seen.
And that’s saying a lot.

31 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 12:26:34pm

re: #21 Justanotherhuman

“Positive train control” system is required by federal law to be installed on all passenger and major freight railroads by the end of 2015.

If that had been done already, this crash would more than likely not have happened.

Amtrak says it will be done before the deadline.

According to CNN, it had been installed on that stretch of track but was not yet operational as it had not been sufficiently tested. Apparently one of the delays in installing has to do with a lack of radio bandwidth for the system. Can anyone help on why that would be the case?

32 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:26:54pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

You would have to be fully conscious for that to happen. Positive train control would prevent it even if it was deliberate, from what I’ve read; GPS wouldn’t, of course.

33 Dr Lizardo  May 16, 2015 12:27:40pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

They’re scared of women, quite frankly. A strong woman makes their little dongs shrivel up and disappear.

They’re the “He-Man Woman Haters Club” come to life. Only more obnoxious and far less cute than the Little Rascals.

34 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 12:27:51pm

re: #19 stpaulbear

Which funding source pays for the sensors that would have automatically slowed the train down before it got to the curve? If that had been in place, we wouldn’t be wondering what caused this accident, because it wouldn’t have happened.

Positive train control is funded out of the rail safety budget, as I understand it.

35 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:29:38pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

It was on the other side of the curve, going north, not the one coming into it from the 30th St station, from what I’ve read. It was thought by Amtrak that in the short stretch from 30th St the train would not have gotten up to the speed it did under normal circumstances, so it wasn’t an immediate priority.

36 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:29:53pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

Positive train control is funded out of the rail safety budget, as I understand it.

Which is underfunded.
PTC isn’t new tech. Yet, here we are, dragging our feet implementing it.
Why?

37 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 12:31:24pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

Go look at the end of the last thread.

Republicans have been trying to eviscerate Amtrak for years. GWB tried to zero out funding altogether in 2005, and your presidential candidate went on the record in 2012 as saying he would eliminate Amtrak funding altogether.

Now tell me how your team isn’t trying to destroy public transportation in an attempt to sell it off to their buddies.

Go on. Tell me about that.

38 De Kolta Chair  May 16, 2015 12:31:41pm

re: #27 Justanotherhuman

And why wouldn’t the brothers have just drunk their own piss? : )

But how would one stand up and pee in one’s own mouth, especially in a boat? //

39 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:32:51pm

re: #38 De Kolta Chair

But how would one stand up and pee in one’s own mouth, especially in a boat? //

Embedded Image

Well, the guy should just figure himself very lucky indeed that he wasn’t with his sister, I suppose. : )

40 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:33:24pm

AMTRAK is mostly used in the Mid-Atlantic and North East.
You know, them libtard areas.
e_e

41 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 12:34:53pm

It’s really not even debatable that the GOP has been undercutting and defunding Amtrak at every turn, ever since it began. The defunding efforts started with Reagan, and have been ongoing ever since. And it’s no mystery why - the GOP is the party of big money corporations, and there are lots of these corporations that don’t like the idea of public transportation at all.

42 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:34:55pm

For such an “Exceptional” country, we sure have a lot of outdated infrastructure and no will to fix it.
Oh, we’ll blow 3 trillion on rebuilding Iraq but here?
Ha!
Why?

43 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:35:21pm

re: #32 Justanotherhuman

You would have to be fully conscious for that to happen. Positive train control would prevent it even if it was deliberate, from what I’ve read; GPS wouldn’t, of course.

My point was to create an interim solution, but there is no reason that PTC itself could not be implemented via GPS. You would just have to network the receiver / computer with the train controls. It’d be a lot cheaper than installing transmitters in every section of track you need the system to function on. The only place it wouldn’t work would be tunnels, and you could set a speed limit for a tunnel before the train enters is, and only lift it when the satellite connection is reestablished on the other side.

Seriously, if GPS is good enough and redundant enough for the military to rely on in wartime I’m not sure why the railroad industry needs to go backwards and install the equivalent of a LORAN navigation system here. Makes no sense.

44 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 12:37:46pm

More failing infrastructure? Doesn’t a private company supply this gas?

socalgas.com

45 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:38:37pm

Look how pathetic this budget is for safety.
Page 14, PDF warning.

46 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 12:39:22pm

Chuck is awake and is an expert on Jim Crow laws and its history that it’s the Democrats.

Because, Coolidge…

O_o

47 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 12:39:26pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

It’s really not even debatable that the GOP has been undercutting and defunding Amtrak at every turn, ever since it began. The defunding efforts started with Reagan, and have been ongoing ever since. And it’s no mystery why - the GOP is the party of big money corporations, and there are lots of these corporations that don’t like the idea of public transportation at all.

Look at the Mother Jones article I linked in #25.

Freaking Richard Nixon had trouble in his own party getting funding.

In 1970!

Dark’s argument is fumes. I think he is being purposely ignorant on the subject.

It took me all of 2 seconds to Google “History of Republican Amtrak Funding Cuts” and that was at the top of the list. I bet with some more digging more can be found. But I sure as hell am not going to waste time.

This is one of those you can lead a horse to water moments.

48 SteelPH  May 16, 2015 12:39:31pm

re: #45 Varek Raith

Move along, please! Nothing to see here!

49 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 12:40:18pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

It’s really not even debatable that the GOP has been undercutting and defunding Amtrak at every turn, ever since it began. The defunding efforts started with Reagan, and have been ongoing ever since. And it’s no mystery why - the GOP is the party of big money corporations, and there are lots of these corporations that don’t like the idea of public transportation at all.

And they’d love to buy up Amtrak’s assets for pennies on the buck and get in on all that sweet commuter cash - most likely with declining service in the name of ‘preserving profitability.’

50 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:40:34pm

We spend twice as much on oil subsidies than rail safety.
WTF.

51 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 12:42:43pm

re: #47 ObserverArt

I bet with some more digging more can be found. But I sure as hell am not going to waste time.

I found these (repost from last thread):

George W. Bush tried to zero out Amtrak funding in 2005.

Zero. It. Out.

The budget proposed by President Bush this month would eliminate federal funding for Amtrak, setting aside $360 million to operate some trains only if the service faces a shutdown. Amtrak received $1.2 billion in federal funding for the current fiscal year. The new fiscal year begins October 1.

Oh, look. In 2011.

Yet Amtrak finds itself back in a familiar spot. Last week, a House appropriations subcommittee approved a 2012 funding bill that reduces Amtrak’s operating budget by 60 percent and puts an end to state-supported routes in 15 states from New York to California.

2014.

The House is proposing a 40 percent funding cut for Amtrak in a new passenger rail bill that was unveiled on Thursday by the chamber’s Transportation Committee.

2012. A certain Republican presidential candidate:

So first there are programs I would eliminate. Obamacare being one of them but also various subsidy programs — the Amtrak subsidy, the PBS subsidy, the subsidy for the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities.

52 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 12:42:57pm

To be clear: I’m not arguing that many Republicans don’t like Amtrak and that they might well have defunded it if Amtrak hadn’t had Joe Biden as its champion in the Senate. But the allegation thrown this week was that Republican funding cuts had caused the fatal derailment. That’s a fairly serious charge and as of now the evidence does not support it.

Democrats may call additional funding if they want, but they should not blame Republicans for something that was not the fault of appropriators.

53 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 12:43:44pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

To be clear: I’m not arguing that many Republicans don’t like Amtrak and that they might well have defunded it if Amtrak hadn’t had Joe Biden as its champion in the Senate. But the allegation thrown this week was that Republican funding cuts had caused the fatal derailment. That’s a fairly serious charge and as of now the evidence does not support it.

Democrats may call additional funding if they want, but they should not blame Republicans for something that was not the fault of appropriators.

BIDEN!!!!

DRINK!!!!!!!

54 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 12:44:55pm

Dark,

What do you see as the Republicans’ end game? What would they do with Amtrak if they finally succeeded in killing it off?

55 jaunte  May 16, 2015 12:45:10pm

China’s planned rail spending tops $100-billion for 2013

“…China is busily trying to expand rail links to Europe and India. Goods shipped by rail to Europe would cut at least 10 days off the time it now takes to ship them around Asia and through the Suez Canal.”
online.barrons.com

56 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:45:55pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

To be clear: I’m not arguing that many Republicans don’t like Amtrak and that they might well have defunded it if Amtrak hadn’t had Joe Biden as its champion in the Senate. But the allegation thrown this week was that Republican funding cuts had caused the fatal derailment. That’s a fairly serious charge and as of now the evidence does not support it.

Democrats may call additional funding if they want, but they should not blame Republicans for something that was not the fault of appropriators.

Because zeroing it out or cutting 60% won’t effect safety.
This is what your party has been trying to do for decades.
You can’t be serious.

57 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:46:16pm

This is some bullshit.

Southern Californians are currently paying $4.00 per gallon for regular gas, $1.30 more than the national average - the widest gap ever recorded by the federal government’s Energy Information Agency.

Prices at the pump have skyrocketed 69 cents in one month due to gasoline shortages and refinery outages. Oil refiners saw sky-high profits in the first quarter of 2015 when the refinery outages began, as Consumer Watchdog’s latest report, Refining Profits explained.

Read that report here:

Valero, one of California’s largest refiners, reported California refining profits of $82 million, over triple their average quarterly profits over the last five years. Tesoro, who dealt with a steelworkers strike and had to idle one of their refineries still had healthy profits of over $100 million in California.

“California’s oil refiners are the only industry in America that make a fortune when their factories go down,” said Jamie Court, President of Consumer Watchdog. “Oil company CEOs are boasting to investors on conference calls about huge West Coast profits from their refinery outages while refusing to appear before state legislators. Why would oil refiners ever fix their refinery problems if it’s making them a fortune? It’s time for legislative reform.”

It’s just like Enron and the raping of the West Coast power markets in 2000 / 2001.

58 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 12:46:19pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

To be clear: I’m not arguing that many Republicans don’t like Amtrak and that they might well have defunded it if Amtrak hadn’t had Joe Biden as its champion in the Senate. But the allegation thrown this week was that Republican funding cuts had caused the fatal derailment. That’s a fairly serious charge and as of now the evidence does not support it.

Democrats may call additional funding if they want, but they should not blame Republicans for something that was not the fault of appropriators.

Of course funding cuts in themselves didn’t cause this specific accident. But it’s incredibly obvious that the Republican Party’s hostility to Amtrak has contributed to a lack of safety features and infrastructure improvements that could have prevented it.

59 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:46:42pm
60 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 12:46:54pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

To be clear: I’m not arguing that many Republicans don’t like Amtrak and that they might well have defunded it if Amtrak hadn’t had Joe Biden as its champion in the Senate. But the allegation thrown this week was that Republican funding cuts had caused the fatal derailment. That’s a fairly serious charge and as of now the evidence does not support it.

Democrats may call additional funding if they want, but they should not blame Republicans for something that was not the fault of appropriators.

Nice backtrack.

Your comment from #469 - last thread…

How much money have Republicans cut? From what areas of Amtrak’s funding requests have those funds been cut? Start with those two questions, and we’ll try to work through this.

And now you are dancing.

61 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 12:49:05pm

So if the accident was in part caused by vandalism, a thrown rock, or terrorist attack by rifle shot will the Republicans restore the funding and admit they were reflexively blaming the victim here?

62 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:49:19pm

We’re the most powerful nation on this stupid planet.
Don’t fucking tell me we can’t afford even a passable rail system.

63 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:50:10pm
64 De Kolta Chair  May 16, 2015 12:50:44pm

re: #39 Justanotherhuman

Well, the guy should just figure himself very lucky indeed that he wasn’t with his sister, I suppose. : )

That makes sense. Thanks!

65 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 12:55:57pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

Hence my extreme skepticism about any increase in the tax on gasoline, also already higher than just about anywhere.

66 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 12:56:37pm

re: #46 Backwoods_Sleuth

Chuck is awake and is an expert on Jim Crow laws and its history that it’s the Democrats.

Because, Coolidge…

O_o

Calvin Coolidge didn’t like Jim Crow, it’s a fact, but he didn’t do much to prevent its negative effects on black people. The one chance he had, the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, saw him be far too passive. In the end it was then-Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover who coordinated the federal relief efforts, such as they were. To be fair, that kind of resource management and allocation was something Herbert Hoover was exceptionally good at, but had Coolidge visited the areas near the flood zone and urged more aid, more would have been forthcoming.

The one clear positive thing Calvin Coolidge did for non-whites was to give his support to legislation that made all Native Americans US citizens. Though again, more should have been done, it was a clear step in the right direction.

67 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 12:57:23pm

I don’t understand how so many think we can just let our roads, pipes, bridges and electrical grids just rot away.
Because that is exactly what we are doing.

68 jaunte  May 16, 2015 12:57:38pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

We’re the most powerful nation on this stupid planet.
Don’t fucking tell me we can’t afford even a passable rail system.

I read a tweet a while back about conservatives generally being opposed to “democratizing mobility.”

69 SteelPH  May 16, 2015 12:58:56pm

re: #68 jaunte

I read a tweet a while back about conservatives generally being opposed to “democratizing mobility.”

What the flying fuck does that even mean?

70 Dr Lizardo  May 16, 2015 12:59:19pm

re: #68 jaunte

I read a tweet a while back about conservatives generally being opposed to “democratizing mobility.”

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT PUBLIC MASS TRANSPORTATION IS A BOLSHEVIK PLOT TO GET US OUT OF THE CARS BUILT FOR US BY THE BABY JESUS!! or something to that effect.

*smh*

71 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:00:17pm

This is why other nations will surpass us.
And the GOP is the driving force behind it.
I’d laugh at the irony if it weren’t so sad.

72 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:00:47pm

re: #67 Varek Raith

I don’t understand how so many think we can just let our roads, pipes, bridges and electrical grids just rot away.
Because that is exactly what we are doing.

Republicans won’t pay for public subsidy of infrastructure.

But you can bet the bank that if it were all privatized, the tax incentives to the companies that bought up the remains would flow like water.

73 jaunte  May 16, 2015 1:01:07pm

re: #70 Dr Lizardo

Competitive Enterprise Institute:

“…automobility is under increasing attack, on grounds ranging from resource and environmental concerns to arguments over “urban sprawl.”
cei.org

74 De Kolta Chair  May 16, 2015 1:01:17pm

Want to be a success? Have you given any thought to career home study?

75 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:02:19pm

re: #73 jaunte

Competitive Enterprise Institute:

Sigh.
I don’t even have a car. I rely on PRTC and DC Metro.

76 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:03:04pm

re: #71 Varek Raith

A lack of infrastructure management and spending is not limited to the GOP. California, far and away from GOP control for decades, as has the LA City administration. Shows terrible mismanagement as well. LAUSD is another example in education. failing water mains, old bridges, chopped up sidewalks and no end of expensive permits being issued and paid into city coffers for increasingly dense habitation.

It’s not about party it’s about priorities.

77 Dr. Matt  May 16, 2015 1:03:14pm

re: #16 darthstar

It’s not the trains, it’s the rails.

Yup. And a parallel: Our cars are safer and more efficient than ever (because of government regulations), but our roads and bridges are not (thanks to the GOP refusal to fund a comprehensive infrastructure bill).

78 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 1:03:44pm

re: #61 goddamnedfrank

So if the accident was in part caused by vandalism, a thrown rock, or terrorist attack by rifle shot will the Republicans restore the funding and admit they were reflexively blaming the victim here?

Wasn’t the funding vote scheduled in advance? I’d be surprised if it had been done in reply to the derailment. I could be wrong, of course, but I don’t think I am.

79 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 1:05:01pm

re: #67 Varek Raith

I don’t understand how so many think we can just let our roads, pipes, bridges and electrical grids just rot away.
Because that is exactly what we are doing.

re: #68 jaunte

I read a tweet a while back about conservatives generally being opposed to “democratizing mobility.”

re: #69 SteelPH

What the flying fuck does that even mean?

I am thinking as long as your transportation is helicopter taxi services and small private jets you can always avoid roads, trains and bridges.

It is only the 98% of this country must suffer.

One day the majority might figure out what is going on. Until then maybe the 2% helped along by the GOP enablers can count on enough people being killed by poor infrastructure to keep those mobile democrats down

///…but maybe it is not snark. It might well be the game plan.

80 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:05:08pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Of course funding cuts in themselves didn’t cause this specific accident. But it’s incredibly obvious that the Republican Party’s hostility to Amtrak has contributed to a lack of safety features and infrastructure improvements that could have prevented it.

This is from Bill Moyers’ site:

In fact, there is a requirement that Amtrak, commuter lines and freight railroads have positive train controls in place by the end of 2015. Unfortunately, the task (and the bulk of the funding) was left to the privately run freight railroads, on whose lines Amtrak runs. Trying to implement the train control system on the cheap appears to have dramatically failed. (This article on the Eno Transportation Center website has some background.) In January, notes Gregg Levine writing for Al Jazeera, Amtrak published a newsletter in which it said it was “hopeful” that positive train control would be implemented throughout the entire Northeast Corridor by the end of the year. But in March, the acting administrator of the Federal Railroad Administration, Sarah Feinberg, told Congress that the railroad industry would miss the 2015 deadline.

Does anyone believe that if Amtrak itself had the money, that the PTC system might very well have been in place at the crash scene by now?

81 Targetpractice  May 16, 2015 1:05:33pm

I really would like an answer, from Amtrak or the FCC or Congress or whoever, about why PTC was installed on this line but was not active because of the negotiations over radio frequencies. What exactly is the hold-up? Is it lack of funds to make the deal happen? Bureaucrat hold-ups? Or is somebody just sitting around with their thumb up their ass?

82 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:05:55pm

Whatever. I’m done.
If some of you think Ds and F ratings for our infrastructure is ok, then I can’t argue with you.

83 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:07:32pm

re: #80 makeitstop

This is from Bill Moyers’ site:

Does anyone believe that if Amtrak itself had the money, that the PTC system might very well have been in place at the crash scene by now?

Of course it was.
Private industry to the rescue!
e_e

84 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:07:41pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Whatever. I’m done.
If some of you think Ds and F ratings for our infrastructure is ok, then I can’t argue with you.

Hey I’m arguing they need to be a top priority, My point is yours just irrespective of local control.

85 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 1:08:40pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

I wish I didn’t have to. But the Republicans that rule this county wouldn’t approve the $50K the Charlotte Metro bus system wanted to send buses up here during peak hours. And those buses were full when they stopped doing it about 6 yrs ago.

Those who didn’t want to commute to their jobs in Charlotte by private auto were just fucked.

86 GlutenFreeJesus  May 16, 2015 1:10:53pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

What could possibly go wrong with a privatized AMTRAK?

87 jaunte  May 16, 2015 1:11:10pm

re: #85 Justanotherhuman

“…the $50K the Charlotte Metro bus system wanted to send buses up here during peak hours. And those buses were full when they stopped doing it about 6 yrs ago.”

That’s a pretty good example of the meaning of “democratization of mobility.”

88 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:11:24pm

So where did the monies go?

Yet that leaves many questions unanswered. In 2003 retirement costs accounted for 3% of the city’s general fund; now they gobble up 18%, a figure that will rise further without action. Los Angeles’s public schools, which mainly serve Latino children, perform poorly, raising fears of stratification along ethnic as well as economic lines. Some American mayors have tackled these issues head-on, reforming pension plans or pushing charter schools. Mr Garcetti has had little to say about them (schools, admittedly, lie largely outside his jurisdiction, but that has not stopped other mayors from piping up).

economist.com

89 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:11:56pm

re: #84 Great White Snark

Hey I’m arguing they need to be a top priority, My point is yours just irrespective of local control.

I’m just tired of the god damned excuses that come up over and over and over again when it comes to fixing things in this country.
It happens every time. Spending gets shot down in favor of kicking the can down the road in perpetuity. I see no end to this bullshit.
I’ve hit my limit on this.

90 GlutenFreeJesus  May 16, 2015 1:12:51pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

We can’t. We are always too busy projecting that power forcibly onto other countries.

91 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:13:30pm

Wait a second, if our airline system can be private, regulated and overseen by overlapping levels of regulators, I don’t see why private rail transportation is inherently a bad idea. I see no clamor for a Federal passenger air service. Why not?

And again we see that assumptions that the government will do a better job or that only private industry can get it done are simply unsustainable claims on their face. It’s about the care on planning, checks and balances, adequate monies and quality management. I can’t help but notice the stridency and volume of these claims are in great part proportionate to election and news cycles rather than the infrastructure reality on the ground.

Hm.

92 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:13:30pm

Ok.
I’m calm now.
Yeesh, what a rage.
:)

93 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 1:13:33pm
94 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 1:17:57pm

re: #92 Varek Raith

Heh, I’m almost always in a “rage” since I’m at the poverty level most of the time and will be until I die, unless someone in my family wins the lottery. : )

95 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 1:18:06pm

re: #91 Great White Snark

Wait a second, if our airline system can be private, regulated and overseen by overlapping levels of regulators, I don’t see why private rail transportation is inherently a bad idea. I see no clamor for a Federal passenger air service. Why not?

Private rail transportation isn’t a bad idea, but in America its never made much money. Still a private service from Miami to Orlando is under construction, though building new track in a populated area is a necessarily lengthy process.

96 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:18:11pm

re: #91 Great White Snark

Wait a second, if our airline system can be private, regulated and overseen by overlapping levels of regulators, I don’t see why private rail transportation is inherently a bad idea. I see no clamor for a Federal passenger air service. Why not?

Passenger rail is not profitable.

97 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 1:18:25pm

re: #91 Great White Snark

Wait a second, if our airline system can be private, regulated and overseen by overlapping levels of regulators, I don’t see why private rail transportation is inherently a bad idea. I see no clamor for a Federal passenger air service. Why not?

There is a fairly significant federal subsidy paid to air carriers, especially to serve smaller airport destinations.

98 Dr Lizardo  May 16, 2015 1:18:44pm

We have three rail companies here in the Czech Republic. Two private, one state-owned/subsidised. All three use the same tracks with no difficulty.

They are Leo Express, Ceske Drahy and Student Agency. Every now and then, one or the other will run a sale - the other two respond in kind.

It works good. But the Czech Republic is a small country. Slightly smaller than South Carolina. Your mileage may vary.

But one thing I will say - it’s nice not needing a car here.

99 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:18:59pm

re: #91 Great White Snark

Wait a second, if our airline system can be private, regulated and overseen by overlapping levels of regulators, I don’t see why private rail transportation is inherently a bad idea. I see no clamor for a Federal passenger air service. Why not?

The airline industry also gets its share.

From the first days of flight up until the 1970s, taxpayers, through the federal government, provided more than $155 billion in direct support for the aviation industry. Even after deregulation, federal and local governments have continued to provide infrastructure support, tax exemptions and low-cost financing. For example, the government has provided $4.64 billion in taxpayer funds for cash grants and $1.65 billion in loan guarantees in case the airline loan defaults.

After September 11, the industry received approximately $8 billion in federal assistance that continued even after most airlines returned to profitability. Furthermore, the federal pension reform legislation that was passed in 2004 and 2006 provided relief to the airlines valued at more than $3 billion.

Since 2002, in California alone, the airlines received approximately $487 million in state and local subsidies that included tax exemptions and low-interest bond financing. For example, the airlines are exempt from state sales taxes on jet fuel purchases for some flights. This exemption for international flights will cost the state and local governments more than $800 million from fiscal year 2005 to 2009. Despite this, the airlines still want to expand the exemption for out-of-state domestic flights.

Airlines at LAX have received approximately $1.3 billion in low-interest financing to improve or construct their facilities and buy equipment. United Airlines alone received $413 million in low-interest bond financing for improvements at LAX and San Francisco.

Maybe a better question would be ‘Why do airlines get subsidies while railroads don’t?’

100 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:21:00pm

re: #99 makeitstop

The airline industry also gets its share.

Maybe a better question would be ‘Why do airlines get subsidies while railroads don’t?’

Never knew it was so much.
Wow.
Also, how many carriers would’ve folded after 9/11 if it weren’t for the taxpayer?

101 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:22:43pm

Hey, maybe the difference between airlines getting all that gubmint money while the gubmint tries to strip all funding from railroads is lobbyists.

And of course ‘corporation people’ who can contribute to political campaigns.

Just a guess.

102 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:22:56pm

Well, being unprofitable isn’t entirely accurate for AMTRAK.
They make profit in the NEC.

103 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:24:51pm
104 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:25:26pm

re: #97 Backwoods_Sleuth

re: #99 makeitstop

Yes, and FedEx depends on Air Traffic control and subsidized airports. But that’s not the level I refer to. “What could possibly go wrong with private rail” etc. That’s where we go wrong. Who is moving electric auto tech along on the ground? Tesla & Toyota & Chevrolet. Dodging those potholes as fast as they can.

Are we not witnessing what can go wrong on the government side with Amtrak’s issues in general (excluding this perhaps deliberately caused crash) and the private side when hazardous cargo derails and burns? The kind of cargo we really don’t want in vast quantity on highways with us? It would help top cast aside the erroneous assumptions and move more pragmatically, IMO.

105 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 1:25:37pm
106 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:27:13pm

re: #102 Varek Raith

Well, being unprofitable isn’t entirely accurate for AMTRAK.
They make profit in the NEC.

It’s funny. Nearly all of those links about the GOP trying to defund Amtrak also had references to ‘record ridership.’

Kinda makes you wonder why they’re trying so hard. Wait, no it doesn’t.

107 sagehen  May 16, 2015 1:27:52pm

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

Calvin Coolidge didn’t like Jim Crow, it’s a fact, but he didn’t do much to prevent its negative effects on black people. The one chance he had, the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, saw him be far too passive. In the end it was then-Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover who coordinated the federal relief efforts, such as they were. To be fair, that kind of resource management and allocation was something Herbert Hoover was exceptionally good at, but had Coolidge visited the areas near the flood zone and urged more aid, more would have been forthcoming.

HA!! I say again, HA!!

Hoover’s “relief efforts” and “resource management and allocation” for that flood were, quite literally, the worst thing since slavery.

Their strategy to save downtown New Orleans was to dynamite the levees 20 miles north — in an area primarily populated with black sharecroppers in their flimsy shacks. The dynamite was set off in the middle of the night, with no advance notice (deliberately — the City leaders knew weeks ahead of time, and chose the location).

Have you ever heard the song “When the Levees Broke”? That’s what it’s about. 20’ of floodwaters poured out and across the region, while everyone was asleep. Entire settlements were washed away, the death toll is still disputed (hundreds of bodies were recovered), survivors who knew how to swim made their way to smallish remaining portions of the levees where they sat, no supplies, water all around, to wait for help.

When “rescue boats” finally came a few days later, they took all the able-bodied men (no women or children, also didn’t leave any supplies) and press-ganged them into doing relief work downriver in the white areas. Much like slavery, except that it only lasted a few months.

This is why Black voters, who since 1865 had been monolithically Republican, suddenly became monolithically Democrat. This is also why the Great Migration accelerated, why all those black southerners were so eager to move to Chicago and Detroit and New York.

108 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:27:54pm

re: #101 makeitstop

Might lobbyists have been a factor in Los Angeles retirement commitments? Could be… From single digit % of costs to 18%. Wow.

109 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:31:41pm

Subsidies… Evil or sensible for airlines and trains?

Are subsidies there to protect profits or provide expand service into unprofitable circumstances or to artificially reduce a cost of a ticket so a greater % of the population can enjoy the service? Can we have that both ways? I think not.

110 jaunte  May 16, 2015 1:32:09pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

One quibble: I don’t think the scientists and ‘mathematiciens’ will be coming from Kansas.

111 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:32:43pm
The NEC closely parallels Interstate 95 for most of its length, and is the busiest passenger rail line in the United States by ridership and service frequency.

This is why AMTRAK is so important to the NE and why the GOP wants it dead methinks.

112 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:33:31pm

Take it from a devout indy-Party politics are distorting our spending and feeding the pro partisan attitude. Perhaps sometimes to get votes over getting the job done? Who is most guilty varies by location not left or right.

113 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 1:34:12pm

It also costs taxpayers to build those airports, folks, even though airlines pay to use them, although it’s not clear that their contracts cover all operating expenses. Revenue is also raised through direct fees to passsengers, parking, and concessions that operate in the airport itself, in addition to a taxi premium for drivers who win those contracts.

The new concourse is planned to be built on the parking lots that currently house the airport’s rental cars, north of Concourse A. That space will be freed up by next spring, when the airport moves all rental cars into its new hourly parking decks. Charlotte Douglas would build the concourse in two phases, with an eventual total of 18 to 25 gates.

Airport officials had previously planned for that space to be used for a new 25-gate international facility, with a cost of $175 million funded with airport revenue bonds. The facility would have included all of the required federal inspection and passport facilities.

Instead, Cagle said Charlotte Douglas is now focused on extending the useful life of its current international arrivals area, where the airport recently added 24 automated passport kiosks meant to speed entry into the U.S. That’s a more economical option than building a new terminal, Cagle said, especially when the airport doesn’t know with certainty whether airlines plan to increase international service at Charlotte Douglas.

Read more here: charlotteobserver.com

114 Bear  May 16, 2015 1:34:46pm

re: #97 Backwoods_Sleuth</What about all the tax money that goes to operate the airports, the FAA etc.?

115 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:36:28pm

re: #109 Great White Snark

Subsidies… Evil or sensible for airlines and trains?

Are subsidies there to protect profits or provide expand service into unprofitable circumstances or to artificially reduce a cost of a ticket so a greater % of the population can enjoy the service? Can we have that both ways? I think not.

Some subsidies are required.
Like for AMTRAK. Far too many people rely on it.
Those for Oil? They use these subsidies to enrich themselves.
Nope.

116 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 1:37:32pm

re: #112 Great White Snark

Take it from a devout indy-Party politics are distorting our spending and feeding the pro partisan attitude. Perhaps sometimes to get votes over getting the job done? Who is most guilty varies by location not left or right.

I think that ignores how the left and right define themselves. priority-wise.

117 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 1:37:34pm

re: #108 Great White Snark

Might lobbyists have been a factor in Los Angeles retirement commitments? Could be… From single digit % of costs to 18%. Wow.

Or it’s possible that the retirement funds didn’t do well in the recession and therefore more funding had to be poured into it, along with the fact that the baby boomers are now retiring and placing demands on the system.

Possibly.

Equally possible it wasn’t properly funded to start with, given how many government agencies we have seen underfund retirement accounts and then have to scramble to keep up.

118 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 1:38:19pm

re: #109 Great White Snark

Subsidies… Evil or sensible for airlines and trains?

Are subsidies there to protect profits or provide expand service into unprofitable circumstances or to artificially reduce a cost of a ticket so a greater % of the population can enjoy the service? Can we have that both ways? I think not.

I don’t know the answer to two of your questions, but EAS (the subsidy I referred to in my previous comment, but failed to specifically identify) subsidizes airline service to unprofitable rural and remote areas, such as Alaska and several airports in my area of Appalachia, to guarantee a certain number of regularly scheduled flights. This is subsidized airline service/flights, completely separate from any additional airport funding.subsidies.

119 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:38:20pm

re: #115 Varek Raith

And so again we see the binary good vs bad particularly based along party lines fails the reality tests. It’s about the management and checks and balances in government or private biz. Blaming the party lets a lot of powerful individuals that are doing their jobs badly right off the hook. Which perpetuates the problem. Every issue is not an election issue.

120 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 1:38:50pm

re: #111 Varek Raith

This is why AMTRAK is so important to the NE and why the GOP wants it dead methinks.

Let’s not forget the regionalism that is involved here.
I wouldn’t have said it, but look at the GOP response to Sandy.

121 De Kolta Chair  May 16, 2015 1:39:59pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

My money’s on Fear winning that competition. It is Death after all. //

122 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 1:40:02pm

re: #116 wrenchwench

I think that ignores how the left and right define themselves. priority-wise.

If cutting taxes is the number one priority, then all of a sudden there is no money left to do things like improve infrastructure, particularly when continuing to give the military money it isn’t asking for and doesn’t want is the remaining priority.

Versus the party looking at infrastructure improvements these days as a way to get people back to work. But sure, they’re both the same. (How much crying was there over the construction work in the stimulus, again?)

123 Nyet  May 16, 2015 1:41:15pm

MRA: Men with Rabies Anonymous.

124 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:42:53pm

re: #119 Great White Snark

And so again we see the binary good vs bad particularly based along party lines fails the reality tests. It’s about the management and checks and balances in government or private biz. Blaming the party lets a lot of powerful individuals that are doing their jobs badly right off the hook. Which perpetuates the problem.

That ignores the fact that the House appropriations Committee is overwhelmingly controlled by Republicans, most of whom are not representing anyone in the Northeast Corridor.

125 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 1:43:38pm

re: #108 Great White Snark

My grandson, who delivers drugs and supplies to nursing homes, could tell you a thing or two about the bad conditions, including the aging, disrepair and cleanliness of them. The guy who owns the pharmacy that delivers exclusively to nursing homes owns 50 of the ones that he and his work mates deliver to in NC & SC. And these are privately owned, all of them, with one in the mountains charging almost $10K/mo to retirees who require them after establishing vacation homes there. The co also builds nursing homes so he can deliver more drugs. Most of his money comes from Medicare and Medicaid prescriptions for which he charges the govt, of course, as well as Fed and State funds for those unable to pay out of pocket to die in them.

It’s a real racket.

126 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 1:44:41pm
127 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:45:37pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yes of course. But that does not mean air service should be Federally owned and operated. A company does not cease being private when it accepts some subsidy to good purpose like the one you named. Not sure why anyone thinks those subsidies changes my point at all. I never claimed the airlines don’t get or don’t need them. Hey look at how GM worked out after the recession. I don’t think that means car and truck production should be Federally owned or operated.

So I don’t assume private rail to necessarily be such a bad idea. It’s not a well founded assumption. Some obstacles to rail and energy infrastructure improvements have absolutely nothing to do with Republicans v democrats, not private vs government. These significant obstacles include environmental concerns, noise, crash risks and objections from those near the right of way. Just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more.

128 goddamnedfrank  May 16, 2015 1:46:36pm

Both sides are bad LOL.

129 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 1:47:12pm

re: #124 makeitstop

That ignores the fact that the House appropriations Committee is overwhelmingly controlled by Republicans, most of whom are not representing anyone in the Northeast Corridor.

And they ignore that transportation service is necessary to grease the wheels of the economies of the states who subsidize their asses. Some goober from Alabama will vote to defund Amtrak while they suck twice as much tax money from the Federal Government as they pay in, and the people who are trying to get to their jobs to pay their taxes to support Alabama get back much less than they pay in.

130 Nyet  May 16, 2015 1:47:28pm

re: #126 Backwoods_Sleuth

Aaargh. //

131 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 1:48:32pm

re: #127 Great White Snark

Serious question: what rails are you proposing a private rail system to run on?

132 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 1:49:05pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

Wasn’t the funding vote scheduled in advance? I’d be surprised if it had been done in reply to the derailment. I could be wrong, of course, but I don’t think I am.

The funding hadn’t been passed yet and the democrats introduced an ammendment to put back the funding cuts to Amtrack. The democrats were voted down. Are you trying to tell us that they couldn’t put the funding back in because the bill was already in motion? What a lame argument.

133 Nyet  May 16, 2015 1:49:30pm

For cat lovers and not only :D

grey2scale.itch.io

134 Iwouldprefernotto  May 16, 2015 1:49:46pm

re: #123 Nyet

MRA: Men with Rabies Anonymous.

If only they would stay anonymous..

135 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 1:50:01pm

re: #107 sagehen

The levee dynamiting was the act of influential people in New Orleans and was not the decision of Hoover or any other federal official.

As for the press-ganging of black people during the great flood, it is undeniable that it happened. Moreover, Herbert Hoover knew it had happened and didn’t keep his promises of remedial action. It was those broken promises that cause black people to jump ship to the Democrats and FDR.

I’m not going to defend Hoover on this score. It’s true that keeping promises to Southern blacks would have meant fighting a insurrection by Southern whites, but that wasn’t an excuse during the Reconstruction Era and it wasn’t during the Jazz Age, either. But Stock Market Crash or not, he damn well should have tried. But like most Northern white people, Herbert Hoover simply did not care much about what happened in Mississippi.

It’s true the Southern officials who were so cruel to black people were Democrats. But the Republican Party did not come to the aid of those who had supported it, and so they lost the black vote. And the Grand Old Party deserved to lose them.

136 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:50:08pm

re: #124 makeitstop

That ignores the fact that the House appropriations Committee is overwhelmingly controlled by Republicans, most of whom are not representing anyone in the Northeast Corridor.

Our infrastructure issues don’t pre date that GOP control? Really? We recall this very differently. And by the way to try and be more clear my point includes those elected individuals that are hiding behind party rhetoric & re election war chests from the GOP to keep those jobs. Blame the party, nothing changes. Get the heck after the problem individuals and bit by bit change can happen. Gov or corporate. Shareholder revolts have unseated more than a few CEO’s. Outing scandalous connections to industries have unseated quite a few politicians over the years. Not always, not as often as we may like.

137 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 1:51:56pm

re: #133 Nyet

For cat lovers and not only :D

grey2scale.itch.io

I couldn’t get the game to start.
:(

138 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 1:54:57pm

re: #131 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Serious question: what rails are you proposing a private rail system to run on?

As always, government supplies infrastructure, private business uses it to make profit, spends some of that profit to buy elections for Republicans who vote against infrastructure improvements, business declines, gets subsidized by the taxpayers. Lather, rinse, repeat.

139 Nyet  May 16, 2015 1:55:43pm

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do you see the first blinking screen?

140 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 1:56:09pm

re: #132 stpaulbear

The funding hadn’t been passed yet and the democrats introduced an amendment to put back the funding cuts to Amtrak. The democrats were voted down. Are you trying to tell us that they couldn’t put the funding back in because the bill was already in motion? What a lame argument.

Please stop attributing subtext to my posts. As for the bill, where would those monies have come from? Congress is under fairly significant budget constraints, so if Amtrak funding is to be increased, funds will have to be taken from somewhere else.

141 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 1:57:45pm

re: #131 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Well if it’s a new route, it would be new private rails, albeit perhaps with some subsidy for affordability or shared use like carrying USPS letters and boxes. If it’s an old route the model might be a lot like Greyhound rolling on government built highways. I ride rails every working day almost. I use Amtrak to get from LA to Santa Barbara sometimes. Some of those subsidies are designed to get me into a train instead of my car for the obvious good reasons. The California proposal seems a good idea that went off the rails with silly assumptions. Like it must go so damn fast. Or the route should lay out the way they say.

i’m not at all certain private rail should be a thing, what I reject is the premise that private must be evil, or bad, or something. or that it’s not private if some government subsidy applies well.

142 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 1:58:46pm

re: #139 Nyet

Do you see the first blinking screen?

yes. But pressing “X” or “Z” to start didn’t do anything.

143 makeitstop  May 16, 2015 1:59:29pm

re: #136 Great White Snark

Our infrastructure issues don’t pre date that GOP control? Really? We recall this very differently.

Of course they do. But I have to ask in return (not pointing the finger at you with this question, since we’ve gone down that road once before) - representatives of which party have proposed, time and time again, works programs to improve infrastructure?

And which party has obstructed and mocked those proposals, and pretty much shut them down cold?

And by the way to try and be more clear my point includes those elected individuals that are hiding behind party rhetoric & re election war chests from the GOP to keep those jobs. Blame the party, nothing changes.

I’m a firm believer in if a person or political party deserves blame, I have zero problem blaming them. It’s the old go-to of conservatives (again, to be clear, not you) that when Iraq is brought up, i get that I’m ‘blaming Bush.’ Well, fuck yeah I’m blaming Bush if he’s deserving of it.

Get the heck after the problem individuals and bit by bit change can happen. Gov or corporate. Shareholder revolts have unseated more than a few CEO’s. Outing scandalous connections to industries have unseated quite a few politicians over the years. Not always, not as often as we may like.

The ‘scandalous connections to industries’ ship sailed back when SCOTUS upheld Citizens United.

144 Nyet  May 16, 2015 1:59:29pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

Try clicking with your mouse cursor on that little screen to give it focus, then press x or z.

145 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 2:01:54pm

re: #126 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I saw that and “I ran (So Far Away)”

146 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 2:02:35pm

re: #128 goddamnedfrank

Both sides are bad LOL.

No, my point is the whole binary sides thing lets the people off the hook.

147 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 2:03:32pm

re: #143 makeitstop

If we look at the Congress it’s mostly the GOP. Now shall we discuss California and Los Angeles a bit?

148 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 2:05:16pm

re: #141 Great White Snark

The majority of rail track used for long distance transportation in this country is privately owned. The Northeast Corridor is the exception, not the rule, when it comes to Amtrak.

You are aware of this, right? The current private rail owners want nothing to do with providing passenger service. Outside of the Northeast Corridor, it is not a money maker. They would rather the trains not be on their track, because it takes up capacity that could otherwise go to freight. The reason it exists at all is because the government has decided there is a benefit to this service existing even if it does not make money.

149 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:07:07pm

National Security Advisor Susan Rice issues statement condemning Gambian President Yahya Jammeh’s threats of violence against homosexuals, says US is reviewing response to ‘worsening situation’ there - @NBCNews
end of alert

150 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 2:07:11pm

re: #144 Nyet

that worked.
The sounds are making the dogs nuts. :D

151 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:08:12pm

Heh, more infrastructure problems.

Water main problem shuts down several bathrooms at Pimlico Race Course ahead of upcoming running of the Preakness - @baltimoresun
read more on baltimoresun.com

152 Nyet  May 16, 2015 2:09:18pm

re: #150 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not very realistic, I managed to kick the lamp in his face, that should have given me extra-points.
:D

153 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 2:11:06pm

re: #148 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Cargo carriers own it right? So where cargo capacity would be inhibited build passenger rail. Which if I recall can be less expensive. Or faster. How about a private train to Las Vegas from Los Angeles?

Airlines get paid (subsidised) to service small airports. The USPS needs subsidies to service small towns. I still don’t see how any of this makes a private run vs a government built run to be a non starter in principle. if government wants to have lines that don’t make sense for private operators for the public good I have no objection. I’m not claiming the government way can’t work. I have no issues with a blend. What if FedEx bought some space on USPS planes or trucks? Or vice versa? I have no issue.

154 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 2:12:25pm

re: #141 Great White Snark

i’m not at all certain private rail should be a thing, what I reject is the premise that private must be evil, or bad, or something. or that it’s not private if some government subsidy applies well.

Private should have no place in basic infrastructure like this, or fundamental services such as education or health care. This is why we have government—to govern.

In any private business there will always be perverse incentives to maximize profit rather than service to the people who need it. The Postal Service is a great example—one of the most efficient services in the world. If it were privatized like the Republicans want to do, only the largest cities would get mail service, smaller cities would pay through the nose, and rural areas would get none. Also, FEDEX etc., would lose the agency that carries all their stuff the last mile.

We all know what a disaster the privatization of schools is—health care is just as bad, we’re just used to it. We don’t need single-payer like Canada, we need single-provider, like the UK. Not “Medicare for all” but “Tricare for all”. This is the only morally defensible system.

Capitalism should be limited to providing luxury goods, period.

155 BeachDem  May 16, 2015 2:14:37pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

…As for the bill, where would those monies have come from? Congress is under fairly significant budget constraints, so if Amtrak funding is to be increased, funds will have to be taken from somewhere else.

Where there’s a will…

House Republicans found a way to bypass the budget caps of sequestration by adding an extra $89 billion in “emergency war-fighting” to their $612 billion bill to fund the Department of Defense…

A 2011 bipartisan budget deal placed limits on defense and domestic spending. The House defense bill skirts those caps by putting $89 billion of the total into an emergency war-fighting fund, which is exempt from the restrictions.

The bill increases defense spending by padding the emergency war-fighting fund, which is not affected by the caps. Democrats argue that the GOP wants to ignore spending caps when it comes to funding the military, but wants to adhere to them when it comes to other domestic spending.

dailykos.com
abcnews.go.com

156 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 2:16:44pm

re: #155 BeachDem

But that’s different.
///

157 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 2:16:59pm

Let’s start by making sure mega corporations like GE actually pay taxes.
Of course, the GOP will oppose this.

158 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:18:26pm

re: #155 BeachDem

Essentially, the Rs want to heavily fund the war machine but starve what they think should be privately owned and run—everything else, from schools to transportation to health care to national lands. Or at least exploited by profiteers.

159 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 2:19:39pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Please stop attributing subtext to my posts. As for the bill, where would those monies have come from? Congress is under fairly significant budget constraints, so if Amtrak funding is to be increased, funds will have to be taken from somewhere else.

Uh, the GOP wants to kill AMTRAK.
Can you tell us why?

160 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 16, 2015 2:20:45pm

re: #152 Nyet

I woke him up when I trashed the computer monitor (the last thing to go *boom*)!

161 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:21:02pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

Well, stopping them from registering as US corps and then running overseas to park their money would be a start. If they’re establishing their “headquarters” in overseas locations for tax purposes, why in hell should they even be considered US corps?

162 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 2:21:31pm

re: #153 Great White Snark

Cargo carriers own it right? So where cargo capacity would be inhibited build passenger rail. Which if I recall can be less expensive. Or faster. How about a private train to Las Vegas from Los Angeles?

Airlines get paid (subsidised) to service small airports. The USPS needs subsidies to service small towns. I still don’t see how any of this makes a private run vs a government built run to be a non starter in principle. if government wants to have lines that don’t make sense for private operators for the public good I have no objection. I’m not claiming the government way can’t work. I have no issues with a blend. What if FedEx bought some space on USPS planes or trucks? Or vice versa? I have no issue.

This would essentially be the current system. The only place private companies would be interested in getting involved would be in the Northeast Corridor, because that is the only portion of the system that makes money.

Building rail is not cheap. How do you get the land for the right of way? Keep in mind the grade required; what mountain passes are available? Are they at capacity in terms of rail lines laid? (This is, as I recall, an actual issue between LA and Las Vegas, for example.) Keep in mind that all of this investment must be completed before you can actually make any money - and you’re going to be competing with air carriers, who have all their (subsidized) infrastructure in place already and with cars, with their (subsidized) gasoline prices.

163 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 2:22:53pm

re: #154 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Whoa. So my staple foods should all be government grown supplied and distributed? No thanks. Everything but luxury goods? Like my internet? Broadcast television? Water other than tap water? All the cars nicer than little commuter economy cars? Non gold bridal jewelry? Um, where exactly does “luxury” start?

And private schools (some religious some not) while only available to those of upper middle class means or better often outperform school systems like LAUSD. Which in itself is a classic example of a government administrative fail of epic damaging disastrous scale. Other public schools do much better than LAUSD and often on less money per student.
I think part of this is about where we live. Who has been in charge lately (or for decades) and if living in a place where the Dems have been in charge has insulated me from some very legitimate complaints that are aimed in those places at the GOP. ‘Cause my schools and streets and bridges and water mains and the Sacramento delta levies are in bad shape. A place where Congress and the GOP just don’t hold sway.

Okay I hope I have responded in enough depth to get my ideas across FWIW in your own minds. I gotta go make a short shopping run and then come back and lurk while the rest of you guys chew on all this. mine is the uphill side of this discussion. My legs are tired. Be well all!

164 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:23:26pm
165 Nyet  May 16, 2015 2:26:00pm

Ah, Lilarcor…

166 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 2:29:19pm

re: #163 Great White Snark

Pretending it is all because of “the Democrats being in charge” and ignoring things like Prop 13 and the frigging insane amendment system in this state is kind of frustrating. Just saying.

Anyway, enjoy your afternoon.

167 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 2:29:20pm

Is it too soon…

Fla. Toddler Shoots 1-Year-Old Sibling in Mother’s Car

Read more: nbcphiladelphia.com
Follow us: @nbcphiladelphia on Twitter | nbcphiladelphia on Facebook

At least this baby wasn’t killed, but shit, Ma.

168 Varek Raith  May 16, 2015 2:35:58pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Pretending it is all because of “the Democrats being in charge” and ignoring things like Prop 13 and the frigging insane amendment system in this state is kind of frustrating. Just saying.

Anyway, enjoy your afternoon.

Yep, excuses for not getting stuff done.

169 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 2:42:28pm

re: #166 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Pretending it is all because of “the Democrats being in charge” and ignoring things like Prop 13 and the frigging insane amendment system in this state is kind of frustrating. Just saying.

Anyway, enjoy your afternoon.

Um, no my point actually is blaming the party lets the people off the hook. I upset the GOP assumptions by showing being in Dem controlled state and city provided no insulation from many of those same ills. On prop 13,it’s not a fair evaluation until you see that Californians still pay well above average taxes to the ste and more local agencies than most, even with prop 13 in force. I like prop 13 for homes and family farms. Commercial property like factories and warehouse should not be covered.

170 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 16, 2015 3:20:51pm

re: #169 Great White Snark

Um, no my point actually is blaming the party lets the people off the hook. I upset the GOP assumptions by showing being in Dem controlled state and city provided no insulation from many of those same ills. On prop 13,it’s not a fair evaluation until you see that Californians still pay well above average taxes to the ste and more local agencies than most, even with prop 13 in force. I like prop 13 for homes and family farms. Commercial property like factories and warehouse should not be covered.

You are painting with more broad brushes while at the same time saying that blaming the party lets people off the hook.

How many of those years with Dem control were with a super majority? A Democrat governor? Sure, that exists now, and CA is digging itself out of the hole left by several previous administrations.

I do, however, pay attention to the fact that no matter what the “people” say, the party also seems to matter an awful lot when they show up in DC or Sacramento or wherever the politics are happening, because that is how politics works in this country. Sometimes people make compromises to the party in order to get shit done.

And no, both parties are not the same.

171 EPR-radar  May 16, 2015 4:14:20pm

re: #170 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There is no public policy problem in CA (or anywhere else) that can fixed by electing Republicans. The only hope is to elect better Democrats.

That is why I refuse to identify as an independent.

172 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 7:39:09pm

re: #171 EPR-radar

There is no public policy problem in CA (or anywhere else) that can fixed by electing Republicans. The only hope is to elect better Democrats.

That is why I refuse to identify as an independent.

If they are truly better people, in a position of leadership and or kind persuasion, it matters not one darn bit what their party, gender, religion, or age are. They would be worth voting for. Voting for the better person is the better policy. Regardless. That’s my affiliation. To the better candidate. Whatever their origin.


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