The Backwards Bicycle Will Break Your Brain

A demonstration of cognitive bias
Science • Views: 52,568

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Here’s a fascinating look at how our brains are programmed to expect certain behaviors from the tools we use, and how difficult it can be to re-program those neural algorithms. Destin was given a bicycle that was designed with a fiendish twist — the steering was reversed so that turning the handlebars left made the bike go right, and vice versa. And he discovered it was amazingly hard to overcome his normal bike-riding behavior, but not impossible. But it took a lot of work.

By trying to ride this bike, he learned something very interesting about the cognitive biases we all have.

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412 comments
1 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 5:03:32pm

Two Ron Paul ads on Taboola…TWO???

Someone doesn’t like me.

2 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 5:04:17pm

The bike that goes in a bunch of wacky directions huh?

Is this a GOP edition?

3 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 5:12:24pm

Shared all over my FaceSpace stuff. Utterly fascinating!

4 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 5:12:39pm

Speaking of cognitive bias, well maybe actually paid bias I submit a small Page.

5 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 5:18:31pm

It’s posts like this one that make me feel good that I’ve given Charles $80 since December.

Subscribe on the left! Donate to the LGF GoFundMe on the right!

6 freetoken  May 16, 2015 5:20:07pm

The cerebellum controls the muscle integration, and the ability to learn to operate the muscles in a new way has long been known to deteriorate with age. That’s why, for example, younger people can learn to dance more quickly than older.

Same with language, though there it is important to separate out spoken languages from written languages. In learning Japanese I have much more difficulty in listening than in learning to write.

I’m not sure if one can extend the analogy to all of “knowledge”. Even if “neural plasticity” is an issue as we age, it’s not clear to me if conscious thinking, the use of logic, etc. follows the same trajectory of muscle control.

7 Decatur Deb  May 16, 2015 5:23:58pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

It’s posts like this one that make me feel good that I’ve given Charles $80 since December.

Subscribe on the left! Donate to the LGF GoFundMe on the right!

Does the GoFundMe supersede the tip jar? Is it easier to use? I like to attach my support to specifics, such as a counter to periodic hate mail.

(I also would miss the Russian women who are partial to older men.)

8 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 5:26:22pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

Correct me if I’m wrong Charles. Subscription ($80 per annum) turns off all ads at LGF. GoFundMe is the tip jar. And I guess there’s a PayPal as well?

The GoFundMe was very easy to use, and you can leave a little message with your donation for the front page.

9 Lancelot Link  May 16, 2015 5:28:12pm

They have this kind of bike at county fairs.

10 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:28:54pm

re: #8 teleskiguy

Yes, for the tip jar you can use either PayPal or GoFundme. GoFundMe doesn’t have a mechanism to enable subscriptions like PayPal, but if you donate enough at GoFundMe I’ll turn off ads for you manually. (Did this for austin_blue, who made a very generous donation.)

11 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:30:09pm

re: #7 Decatur Deb

If you donate at GoFundMe you can leave a comment with the donation to let me know what it’s for. Some people don’t like to use PayPal, so GoFundMe is a nice alternative to have.

12 Decatur Deb  May 16, 2015 5:30:38pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Yes, for the tip jar you can use either PayPal or GoFundme. GoFundMe doesn’t have a mechanism to enable subscriptions like PayPal, but if you donate enough at GoFundMe I’ll turn off ads for you manually. (Did this for austin_blue, who made a very generous donation.)

Aren’t we due a dramatic reading of hate mail?

13 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:36:00pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

I haven’t been getting any hate mail recently! People seem to do all their hating on Twitter these days.

14 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:38:16pm

Speaking of hate on Twitter - Chuck Johnson is going full-on white supremacist again.

15 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 5:39:00pm

Yes, it’s so true that it gets worse as you get older. We love routine. Sometimes, it’s a life saver. : )

16 Decatur Deb  May 16, 2015 5:39:14pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

I haven’t been getting any hate mail recently! People seem to do all their hating on Twitter these days.

Does Twitter have a ‘crayon’ font?

17 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:41:53pm
18 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 5:43:26pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

(Did this for austin_blue, who made a very generous donation.)

A dollar a day. Good stuff! Wish I could make a donation like that ‘cause I would!

19 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:43:26pm

The guy who made that video “How Whites Took Over America” is an out-and-out neo-Nazi.

20 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 5:45:33pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Speaking of hate on Twitter - Chuck Johnson is going full-on white supremacist again.

And Auernheimer, with his “Our race is dying” bullshit.

21 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:47:11pm

Chuck obviously thinks Auernheimer should be allowed to purchase ads promoting white supremacism on Twitter.

22 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 5:49:09pm

The usual suspects. WAPO is live blogging it.

Nearly a dozen presidential contenders or likely contenders show up to Republican Party’s Lincoln Dinner in Des Moines, Iowa, to pitch themselves and their ideas - @washingtonpost

washingtonpost.com

23 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 5:50:50pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Speaking of hate on Twitter - Chuck Johnson is going full-on white supremacist again.

He must have really gotten beat up at that family gathering. It seems like he’s been on a (worse than usual) rampage of hate ever since.

24 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:54:15pm

re: #23 stpaulbear

He must have really gotten beat up at that family gathering. It seems like he’s been on a (worse than usual) rampage of hate ever since.

I think his mind is deteriorating. Not kidding. It’s as if he realized he has nothing left to lose, and is just letting it all hang out in public. And he can’t seem to stop himself. Disturbingly self-destructive behavior.

25 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 5:55:23pm

Seriously. Look at this shit he just tweeted.

26 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 5:56:52pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I think his mind is deteriorating. Not kidding. It’s as if he realized he has nothing left to lose, and is just letting it all hang out in public. And he can’t seem to stop himself. Disturbingly self-destructive behavior.

I had Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “That Smell” come up on the mix earlier today and thought of the ginger avenger. He’s going to be found on the floor someday soon at the rate he’s going.

27 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 5:56:59pm

Is it too soon, cont.

9-year-old boy accidentally shot, killed by 14-year-old brother in Perris, Calif., police say

ktla.com

28 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 5:59:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

A small contribution is in from this subscriber.

29 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 6:00:55pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

He is one of the worst humanity has to offer. Imagine how dangerous he’d be with 20 million dollars.

30 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:03:34pm

re: #28 Great White Snark

A small contribution is in from this subscriber.

Thank you, my friend!

31 thatthatisis  May 16, 2015 6:05:23pm

Sorry for so far off topic: Didn’t LGF used to have Saturday night sections for registered users only? I’m not complaining, just curious.

32 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 6:06:01pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

The guy who made that video “How Whites Took Over America” is an out-and-out neo-Nazi.

I would never have guessed…

33 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 6:06:43pm

re: #29 Amory Blaine

He is one of the worst humanity has to offer. Imagine how dangerous he’d be with 20 million dollars.

How the fuck would CCJ ever even get close to $20 million???

34 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 6:07:11pm

re: #31 thatthatisis

Sorry for so far off topic: Didn’t LGF used to have Saturday night sections for registered users only? I’m not complaining, just curious.

I think we used to have a private thread every so often, but I believe it has been awhile.

35 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 6:07:22pm

Senator dumbfuck shares his increasingly irrelevant opinion.

Ron Johnson says Russ Feingold is ‘addicted’ to politics

…His speech came two days after Feingold announced he would seek the seat he lost to Johnson after 18 years in the Senate. The race is expected to be one of the top Senate contests of 2016.

Johnson said it wasn’t surprising Feingold had gotten into the race 18 months before the election.

“Russ Feingold is a career politician,” Johnson said in his speech. “He’s addicted to it. He just can’t stand being away from it, and so he’s just got to announce.”

In response to the speech, Feingold campaign manager Tom Russell issued a statement saying Johnson’s time in office had been “disappointing and divisive.”

“He’s shown time and again that he’s just a partisan ideologue who doesn’t listen to the concerns of Wisconsinites, only the concerns of corporate special interests and his multimillionaire crowd,” Russell’s statement said.

36 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:09:06pm

re: #31 thatthatisis

Sorry for so far off topic: Didn’t LGF used to have Saturday night sections for registered users only? I’m not complaining, just curious.

It wasn’t a regular feature, but I do still have the ability to make a thread open to registered users only. Just haven’t done it in a while.

We now have a feature that lets people post a private comment (visible only to other registered users) as well. Hover over the big green question mark in the comment posting area to see how.

37 Justanotherhuman  May 16, 2015 6:16:55pm

Later, Lizards!

Private Comment

PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iaW1nZGl2IGFjZW50ZXIiPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vbGl0dGxlZ3JlZW5mb290YmFsbHMuY29tL3dlYmxvZy9pbWcvanVzdGFub3RoZXJodW1hbi8yMDE1LzA1LzE2L3Bob3RvXzI0NDQuSlBHIiB3aWR0aD0iNTAyIiBoZWlnaHQ9IjU5NCI+PC9kaXY+

38 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 6:17:34pm

Oof. I ordered pizza from a good place in my neighborhood this evening. I usually get one of their white pizzas but I decided to get one of their specials with red sauce tonight. I ordered the usual size but when I picked it up I found out that their red pizzas weigh about 3X more than a white pizza. I’m going to have leftovers for three days.

39 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 6:18:04pm

Ron Johnson’s Real Accomplishment: Marrying the Shrink-Wrap Princess

So it turns out that Senate wannabe Ron Johnson isn’t really a self-made man who built a business; but you can’t say he wasn’t entrepreneurial - he married one of the daughters of a man who did.
When Johnson married Jane Curler, his University of Minnesota sweetheart, he became the son-in-law of Howard Curler, a member of the Wisconsin Meat Industry Hall of Fame for innovations in plastic packaging. Curler and a partner, Robert Woods, started a company, Curwood, that soon “revolutionized cheese packaging” with their shrink-wrap and made Curler and his family very very rich.

In addition to cheese and meat, Curwood and its Group Companies produce packaging films for coffee, candy, sweet and salted snacks, liquid products, personal care and medical products and the list continues to grow. Manufacturing plants and sales offices are now located across the United States and Canada and in Europe and South America.

In 1977, Howard Curler set up his son Patrick in a business, named PACUR (for PAtrick CURler), with Curwood as his only customer for many years. Ron Johnson joined the company in 1979 and worked for Patrick. Jud Lounsbury details how Johnson succeeded:

The reality is that Ron Johnson lucked-out by marrying Howard Curler’s daughter, but that doesn’t make him an entrepreneur and a business-dynamo, that makes him lucky.

40 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:19:46pm

In case you missed it - Season 2 of True Detective looks like it’s going to be pretty great.

…

41 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 6:26:43pm

The shrink wrap princess.

42 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 16, 2015 6:26:45pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

In case you missed it - Season 2 of True Detective looks like it’s going to be pretty great.

[Embedded content]

Season 1 was just amazing. I look forward to Season 2.

43 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 6:26:50pm

Despite Bashing Government Aid, Ron Johnson Employs Prison Inmates With State-Run Health Care

Republican Senate candidate Ron Johnson, who has campaigned against government subsidies to business, employs up to nine prison inmates at his plastics factories whose health care costs are paid by the state, according to records obtained by The Associated Press.

44 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 6:29:09pm

re: #41 stpaulbear

Ha! I haven’t seen that movie in years.

45 thatthatisis  May 16, 2015 6:29:21pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Well that’s embarrassing. I hovered, I pressed, I double pressed, the green question mark and saw nothing. I guess I’m green button-challenged.

46 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:30:32pm
47 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 6:30:39pm

re: #39 Amory Blaine

Here’s another article demolishing the guy:

Ron Johnson is the world’s most ungrateful Son-in-Law

Now, fast forward to 2010. Ron Johnson is running for the U.S. Senate. He tells everyone that he is a rich guy that will spend all of his fortune on the Senate race. How did he make his money? Here’s what he told The Hill (link is external):

Over 31 years of very hard work, I’ve tucked away, outside of business, enough money to get my message out. If I have to, I’ll spend it all.

No mention that his father-in-law was billionaire Curler and that 99.99% of his personal fortune is due to the fact that he married Curler’s daughter.

What’s more, he repeatedly intimated that he was a self-made man that “started” his business from the “ground-up,” without ever mentioning that he wasn’t even in the state when PACUR was being built and that PACUR was not only a creation of Howard Curler, but would feed from the Curler-controlled Bemis trough throughout its entire life.

By every measure, Ron Johnson is a “fence post turtle” and the only way a turtle get’s on a fence post is if someone puts them there— that someone was Howard Curler.

Yet, Ron Johnson has never, not even once, thanked, acknowledged, or even mentioned the name Howard Curler.

48 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 6:32:09pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

“No, he thinks you’re a White Supremacist because YOU ARE a White Supremacist.”

49 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:32:56pm
50 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 6:34:12pm

re: #44 Amory Blaine

Ha! I haven’t seen that movie in years.

‘Brazil’ gives me nightmares. It’s one of the creepiest movies ever.

51 HappyWarrior  May 16, 2015 6:34:46pm

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

Here’s another article demolishing the guy:

Ron Johnson is the world’s most ungrateful Son-in-Law

He earned his fortune the old fashioned way by marrying into it.//

52 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 6:35:13pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I think his mind is deteriorating. Not kidding. It’s as if he realized he has nothing left to lose, and is just letting it all hang out in public. And he can’t seem to stop himself. Disturbingly self-destructive behavior.

It certainly is not pretty.

I happen to think he is trying to hook up with anyone, anywhere to make some bucks. Desperation makes people with questionable character do real bad things.

53 HappyWarrior  May 16, 2015 6:35:57pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Coming from a white supremacist himself, this is pretty rich.

54 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 6:38:52pm

re: #50 stpaulbear

‘Brazil’ gives me nightmares. It’s one of the creepiest movies ever.

Aww. It is one of my favorites. I love a good dark comedy.

55 HappyWarrior  May 16, 2015 6:38:52pm

CCJ in a nutshell cries about Charles calling him a white supremacist, retweets or posts something white supremacist. Typical conservative bullshit.

56 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:42:06pm
57 ObserverArt  May 16, 2015 6:42:59pm

re: #54 ObserverArt

Aww. It is one of my favorites. I love a good dark comedy.

To add…look how spot on Gilliam was about the acceptance of terrorism, and how much he was correct about the “plastic wrapped Mum” plastic surgery.

With that…later Lizards. Imma go bang on my drums some.

58 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 6:51:57pm

re: #57 ObserverArt

Holy shit dude, you’re right!

59 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 6:53:46pm

re: #57 ObserverArt

To add…look how spot on Gilliam was about the acceptance of terrorism, and how much he was correct about the “plastic wrapped Mum” plastic surgery.

With that…later Lizards. Imma go bang on my drums some.

“Brazil” is an incredible movie. I think it’s Terry Gilliam’s masterpiece.

60 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 6:55:59pm

re: #59 Charles Johnson

“Brazil” is an incredible movie. I think it’s Terry Gilliam’s masterpiece.

I saw Brazil as a teenager and I thought it was too weird at that time.

Today it is definitely one of my favorite movies. The slapstick in the scene where Lowery gets a new office in Information Retrieval is priceless.

61 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 7:01:17pm

re: #54 ObserverArt
re: #59 Charles Johnson
re: #60 teleskiguy

I’ll agree that it’s a great movie and funny as hell, but also a bit terrifying. It’s 1984 as a comedy.

62 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 7:01:33pm

Brazil was never one of my favorites. That said, I can see and even appreciate the genius of it, but I don’t care for it.

Unlike, say, Eraserhead where I just simply despise the movie and wish I had the time I wasted watching that dreck back.

63 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 7:02:39pm

re: #61 stpaulbear

“Central Services.”

“Central Services!”

“Trouble with your air conditioning?”

“Trouble with your air conditioning, SIR?”

64 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 7:03:18pm

re: #59 Charles Johnson

“Brazil” is an incredible movie. I think it’s Terry Gilliam’s masterpiece.

People think of it as an updated 1984, but it’s really the anti-1984. Winston Smith was completely broken. The takeaway is that anybody can be.

Lowery was able to go to a place in his mind where they couldn’t reach him. The takeaway from that is that everyone has a core that’s their own—they can kill you, but they can’t change the basis of your personality.

But mainly, the art design is the greatest thing ever!

65 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 7:03:19pm
66 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 16, 2015 7:04:45pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Aha! You fell for his clever plan.

67 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 7:05:10pm

re: #63 teleskiguy

“Central Services.”

“Central Services!”

“Trouble with your air conditioning?”

“Trouble with your air conditioning, SIR?”

“Congratulations! You have been selected to assist the Ministry of Information in some inquiries.”

68 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 7:05:27pm

re: #64 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

People think of it as an updated 1984, but it’s really the anti-1984. Winston Smith was completely broken. The takeaway is that anybody can be.

Lowery was able to go to a place in his mind where they couldn’t reach him. The takeaway from that is that everyone has a core that’s their own—they can kill you, but they can’t change the basis of your personality.

But mainly, the art design is the greatest thing ever!

Brazil was definitely nicer than 1984 in the manner that you describe bolded above. Well put.

69 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 7:10:55pm

Hey Charles, quick question, and I mean it in a strictly rhetorical fashion. If your name wasn’t Charles Johnson would you still be going after horrible human Charles C. Johnson?

I see people a lot on Twitter admonish you for staying on UpChuck’s case. In your erudite way, you explain why.

70 stpaulbear  May 16, 2015 7:19:48pm

re: #69 teleskiguy

I know I’d be pretty pissed off if someone with my name was spewing the garbage that CCJ does, and I don’t even have a blog or twitter presence to protect.

71 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 7:22:14pm

re: #70 stpaulbear

I know I’d be pretty pissed off if someone with my name was spewing the garbage that CCJ does, and I don’t even have a blog or twitter presence to protect.

Too true. It’s like Charles is fucking stuck in the situation.

Fortunately, UpChuck will never get to our humble host, ‘cause he’s a cool cat! He recorded a gold record with George Duke!

72 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 7:23:41pm
73 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 7:28:21pm

Yup just a sick individual.

A turn it up moment brought to you by RWC

74 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 7:29:18pm

I think Dennis Mersereau is a great writer about the weather.

75 Mattand  May 16, 2015 7:31:34pm

I don’t think Charles has much of a choice in going after CCJ. He’s running a web-based business, and there’s an unrepentant racist out with the same name also vying for Google attention.

Not that that is the only reason Charles is calling out CCJ; look at his work in spotlighting dirtbags like Todd Kincannon and Pam Geller, among others. But I don’t think ignoring Rage Koala is an option at this point.

76 BigPapa  May 16, 2015 7:49:22pm

CCJ is cancer. Intellectual and social cancer. A nasty strain of it.

77 Great White Snark  May 16, 2015 7:52:01pm

Private comments is a cool feature.

Private Comment

V2hvIGVsc2UgaGVyZSBub3cgZXZlciB3YXMgaW4gYSBsaXphcmQgTG91bmdlIHRocmVhZD8=

78 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 7:54:39pm

re: #77 Great White Snark

Private comments is a cool feature.

[Embedded content]

Not all that many, that I recall. The need has gotten less and less as time has gone by.

79 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 7:55:51pm
80 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 8:01:38pm

The white supremacists are going nuts.

81 jaunte  May 16, 2015 8:02:00pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

@rabite is shit

Well, duh.

82 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 8:02:09pm
83 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 8:02:22pm
84 The Ghost of a Flea  May 16, 2015 8:06:25pm

The slightly different varieties of racist aren’t willing to agree to disagree.

Let me play this tiny violin.

85 jaunte  May 16, 2015 8:07:00pm

Purity slapfight.

86 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 8:07:28pm
87 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 8:13:43pm

I Hate Social Media Nazis!

88 BigPapa  May 16, 2015 8:17:46pm

Chuck tries to be frenz. White Supremacist doesn’t want to be frenz.

I has sadz.

89 jaunte  May 16, 2015 8:18:47pm

Anglo-Franco-Frisian-Briton-Pict-Serbo-Slavo-Celt morons hate “mongrel babies”

90 RealityBasedSteve  May 16, 2015 8:20:44pm

re: #77 Great White Snark

Private comments is a cool feature.

[Embedded content]

What is a

Private Comment

bGl6YXJkIGxvdW5nZSB0aHJlYWQ=

91 Dark_Falcon  May 16, 2015 8:23:28pm

re: #90 RealityBasedSteve

What is a

[Embedded content]

It was a open thread sometimes private. Charles put such private threads up during a few periods of intense troll activity.

92 RealityBasedSteve  May 16, 2015 8:24:32pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

It was a open thread sometimes private. Charles put such private threads up during a few periods of intense troll activity.

Thank you.

RBS

93 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 8:28:01pm

Off to the motel for one more night this week. I’ll check in again later Lizards.

94 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 8:32:36pm

re: #77 Great White Snark

I remember the lizard lounge. I could never get in, registration seemed always closed, I finally registered in 2008. I remember the avi, a lounging lizard drinking a cocktail.

95 Charles Johnson  May 16, 2015 8:34:19pm
96 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 8:38:21pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

97 RealityBasedSteve  May 16, 2015 8:40:48pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

Too funny! He’s digging up 12-day old posts to attack me now. Smell the rage.
[Embedded content]

He’s cranking it all the way up to 11. Probably listening to this….

98 freetoken  May 16, 2015 8:46:56pm

re: #22 Justanotherhuman

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) told the crowd that the U.S. faces two major threats: Radical Islam and attacks on religious liberty. The latter earned him the loudest applause.

Besides the idiocy of this whole modern martrydom thing, one has to wonder if those who applaud the most at this political canard ever will realize their hatred of Islam is exactly what they think is happening to them.

99 wrenchwench  May 16, 2015 8:47:36pm

I tried a bike like that about a year ago. I could not do it. Cost me $5.00. It was free if you could do it.

100 BigPapa  May 16, 2015 8:48:19pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

Somehow you’re against free speech. Right.

Treacher, the Obama Loves Dogs guy. He and I went back and forth long ago.

Another under developed angry child in a man’s meat suit.

101 freetoken  May 16, 2015 8:54:27pm

There is no greater example of lack of self awareness in contemporary American society and politics than those who would deny the building of mosques in NYC and Murfreesboro claiming they are the ones experience religious persecution.

102 austin_blue  May 16, 2015 8:57:15pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Yes, for the tip jar you can use either PayPal or GoFundme. GoFundMe doesn’t have a mechanism to enable subscriptions like PayPal, but if you donate enough at GoFundMe I’ll turn off ads for you manually. (Did this for austin_blue, who made a very generous donation.)

And I very much appreciate it!

103 The Ghost of a Flea  May 16, 2015 8:58:29pm

re: #98 freetoken

Tonight’s VICE was on US pastors selling homophobia in Uganda, and how deep it’s taken root (a revised version of the “Kill The Gays” bill is creeping up). Man, I’m tired of the po’ faced “we’re so persecuted” thing.

104 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 9:11:34pm

re: #103 The Ghost of a Flea

Tonight’s VICE was on US pastors selling homophobia in Uganda, and how deep it’s taken root (a revised version of the “Kill The Gays” bill is creeping up). Man, I’m tired of the po’ faced “we’re so persecuted” thing.

For them, persecution means being prevented from doing what they want to force other people to do.

105 Kragar  May 16, 2015 9:14:09pm

re: #104 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

For them, persecution means being prevented from doing what they want to force other people to do.

“How dare you prevent us from exercising our freedom to tell you how to live your lives!”

106 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 9:25:30pm

I, too, am sick of open theocrats in our midst. Too many folks of faith forget a fundamental human tenant of their faith: Salvation lies within.

107 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 9:34:54pm

re: #106 teleskiguy

I, too, am sick of open theocrats in our midst. Too many folks of faith forget a fundamental human tenant of their faith: Salvation lies within.

[English teacher hat on]

Tenet, not tenant

[/English teacher hat off]

108 RealityBasedSteve  May 16, 2015 9:43:10pm

re: #107 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

[English teacher hat on]

Tenet, not tenant

[/English teacher hat off]

Not to be confused with Tennant

109 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 9:49:43pm

Hell, CCJ retweets a tweet that openly mocks him?

He’s somehow even dumber than I thought.

110 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 9:50:55pm

I was thinking earlier tonight: What if more Christians acted like Christians?

111 RealityBasedSteve  May 16, 2015 9:56:53pm

Night all. The cats have been fed and watered, the house shut down, the car packed for tomorrow’s adventures. I’m off to the bed and I’ll see you all sometime tomorrow evening.

Stay safe and don’t eat any BEES

112 teleskiguy  May 16, 2015 10:00:10pm

re: #107 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Instead of correcting it, Im’ma just leave it be. They’re measly internet comments, right?

113 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 10:01:18pm

re: #109 Eclectic Cyborg

Hell, CCJ retweets a tweet that openly mocks him?

He’s somehow even dumber than I thought.

He’s either got a bot doing the retweets, or he’s retweeting for his followers to see how persecuted he is. Or he’s clueless.

114 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 10:05:10pm

re: #113 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

He’s either got a bot doing the retweets, or he’s retweeting for his followers to see how persecuted he is. Or he’s clueless.

This.

115 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 16, 2015 10:07:06pm

So he and HotAsianWife are going to have “mongrel babies”? Yeah, that never works out….

116 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 10:20:49pm

Dim Jim is comparing social welfare programs in China and the USA, and concluding the USA is more socialist than China.

Naturally, he’s ignorant of the situation in China, which is very similar to that of the USA before 1930. Next to no Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, employer AD&D equivalents here, except for Party mucky-mucks and big bosses. If you’re poor, out of work, disabled or elderly, your family is your only safety net.

117 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 16, 2015 10:24:29pm

Seton Hall sports chaplain fired for supporting NOH8

Rev. Warren Hall has been removed as the director of the Seton Hall Univ. campus ministry after posting a photograph on Facebook supporting understanding of LGBT people, according to various sources including nj.com. In his roll Hall ministered to various Pirates sports teams on campus…

Why is Seton Hall still allowed to play in the NCAA? This isn’t Seton’s first example of anti-gay sentiment. Yes, it’s a Catholic institution. I didn’t know that the NCAA was one as well.

118 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 10:25:30pm

re: #110 Eclectic Cyborg

I was thinking earlier tonight: What if more Christians acted like Christians?

That’s the core of what I try to tell people. The numbers will stop dropping only when we Christians provide an example of a life worth emulation. It really isn’t that hard…

119 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 10:30:05pm

re: #118 William Lewis

As I recall from studying the NT ages ago, Jesus was much more judgmental toward the hypocrites in his own faith then he was of the Roman pagans, the Samaritans, and the lower classes. Were he around today, I figure he would have a lot to say regarding the hypocrites who say they follow him, but subvert his teachings to feather their own nests.

120 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 10:32:12pm

re: #117 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Seton Hall sports chaplain fired for supporting NOH8

Why is Seton Hall still allowed to play in the NCAA? This isn’t Seton’s first example of anti-gay sentiment. Yes, it’s a Catholic institution. I didn’t know that the NCAA was one as well.

So a Christian school fires a Christian Chaplain for doing something very Christian…what is wrong with this picture?

121 Eclectic Cyborg  May 16, 2015 10:33:54pm

re: #119 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

As I recall from studying the NT ages ago, Jesus was much more judgmental toward the hypocrites in his own faith then he was of the Roman pagans, the Samaritans, and the lower classes. Were he around today, I figure he would have a lot to say regarding the hypocrites who say they follow him, but subvert his teachings to feather their own nests.

You recall correctly. I wish Jesus was around in physical form today as I’d love to see him OBLITERATE (figuratively speaking) the so-called “Christians” in the GOP.

122 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 10:39:29pm

re: #121 Eclectic Cyborg

You recall correctly. I wish Jesus was around in physical form today as I’d love to see him OBLITERATE (figuratively speaking) the so-called “Christians” in the GOP.

He’d probably have a Twitter account, a blog and his own TV program, in addition to the 12 (or 11) disciples — Judas might not get a call-back.

123 Kragar  May 16, 2015 10:40:18pm

re: #121 Eclectic Cyborg

124 austin_blue  May 16, 2015 10:56:11pm

re: #123 Kragar

Embedded Image

Don’t give the gaspers ideas…

125 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 10:59:05pm

re: #122 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

We have a good idea of what Jesus would be like on Twitter. He goes by Jihadi-jew IIRC… < whistles innocently >

126 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 11:00:23pm

re: #125 William Lewis

We have a good idea of what Jesus would be like on Twitter. He goes by Jihadi-jew IIRC… < whistles innocently >

@ TheRealJC or @ OnlyBegottenSon

127 austin_blue  May 16, 2015 11:04:23pm

re: #125 William Lewis

We have a good idea of what Jesus would be like on Twitter. He goes by Jihadi-jew IIRC… < whistles innocently >

#i’dneverdieforYOURsinsyoucrackerfucks

128 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 11:14:12pm

re: #93 William Lewis

Get your amp yet?

129 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 16, 2015 11:19:33pm

re: #127 austin_blue

#i’dneverdieforYOURsinsyoucrackerfucks

IWasTotallyMisunderstood

ThoseQuotesINeverSaid

130 austin_blue  May 16, 2015 11:24:16pm

It appears we have sent a SpecOps team into Syria to kill ISIS’s CPA. Successfully.

That’s a new twist on asymmetrical warfare!

Interesting move, to say the least:

cnn.com

131 Kragar  May 16, 2015 11:25:46pm

re: #130 austin_blue

But when is Obama going to fight ISIS?
///

132 William Lewis  May 16, 2015 11:29:46pm

re: #128 Amory Blaine

Get your amp yet?

Waiting on my tax refund. Got the order ready to go when I get the check.

133 freetoken  May 16, 2015 11:30:33pm

re: #131 Kragar

But when is Obama going to fight ISIS?

After he conquers Texas?

134 austin_blue  May 16, 2015 11:34:15pm

re: #131 Kragar

But when is Obama going to fight ISIS?
///

If it’s cheap, effective, and relatively safe, I’m all

Thunderbirds Are Go!

I just question the effectiveness part. A CPA may have busted Capone, but ISIS is a very different multinational animal. With exportable oil.

We’ll see.

135 Targetpractice  May 16, 2015 11:39:51pm

re: #133 freetoken

After he conquers Texas?

We’ve liberating Texans from a despotic regime and giving them democracy! They’ll greet us as liberators!

///

136 Amory Blaine  May 16, 2015 11:48:08pm

re: #132 William Lewis

I’m still waiting on my state refund. I signed the recall so…

137 Dr Lizardo  May 17, 2015 1:05:18am

re: #103 The Ghost of a Flea

Tonight’s VICE was on US pastors selling homophobia in Uganda, and how deep it’s taken root (a revised version of the “Kill The Gays” bill is creeping up). Man, I’m tired of the po’ faced “we’re so persecuted” thing.

Uganda isn’t the only place the Christian fundies are up to their nefarious shenanigans.

theguardian.com

With just five days to go before Ireland’s historic referendum on the legalisation of gay marriage, a bitter row has broken out between supporters and opponents over the funding of their respective campaigns. Supporters of a yes vote have accused opponents of a lack of transparency over finances and of accepting funding from rightwing Christian groups in the US.

One of the no side’s strongest supporters in the US is the lavishly funded National Organisation for Marriage (NOM). In a letter to supporters around the world, it has urged evangelical Christians to visit keepmarriage.org, which is campaigning for a no vote.

Despite the accusations and counter-accusations over foreign money, the no camp appears to be facing an uphill struggle in its battle to defeat proposals to legalise gay marriage. A poll by Ipsos MRBI for the Irish Times this weekend found that 58% will vote yes while 25% will say no, with 17% of the 1,200 surveyed undecided.

138 Dr Lizardo  May 17, 2015 1:13:17am

Heh. A nice article here on Hugh Keays-Byrne, who plays the central antagonist in Mad Max: Fury Road.

Immortan, who wears a skull mask, drinks milk from lactating women and harvests organs from men he holds captive in steel cages, would make Toecutter quake in his leather boots. But Keays-Byrne insists both characters are misunderstood.

Toecutter was a member of an “oppressed nomadic minority”, he says; Immortan is “a renaissance man - he’s simply trying to bring order into an apocalyptic world”.

He is diplomatic when asked if he prefers Gibson’s or Tom Hardy’s portrayal of Max. “Comparisons are odious,” is all he’ll say.

Does he think his role in Fury Road might open doors in Hollywood and trigger a late-career renaissance? “I’m always open for business,” he says. There are always sequels ….

independent.co.uk

He was very good as Immortan Joe, and even though his character is behind a facemask throughout the film, he really brought the role to life and created a great and memorable villain, right up there with the Ayatollah of Rock ‘n Rolla himself, the Lord Humungus. Kudos.

139 freetoken  May 17, 2015 1:50:42am

MP3 Audio

141 freetoken  May 17, 2015 3:13:15am

So, this might have happened:

Restaurant closed for serving HUMAN FLESH to customers

Cops were alerted after visitors to the hotel restaurant heard rumours that the “meat” being served was actually from people and not animals.

When officers raided the diner, to their horror they found that still-bleeding human heads were being stored in the back in plastic bags.

They also discovered an arsenal of weapons including an AK-47 and a grenade.

“Every time I went to the market, I observed strange activities going on in the hotel,” one local resident told the BBC.

“People who were never cleanly dressed and who looked a bit strange made their way in and out of the hotel, making me very suspicious of their activities. I am not surprised at the shocking revelation.”

[…]

142 Teukka  May 17, 2015 3:31:52am

re: #141 freetoken

So, this might have happened:

Restaurant closed for serving HUMAN FLESH to customers

Uhhhh…. Nope.
snopes.com: Nigeria: Restaurant Served Roasted Human Heads

143 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 17, 2015 3:35:26am

re: #141 freetoken

So, this might have happened:

Restaurant closed for serving HUMAN FLESH to customers

Considering the source (The Daily Star), I think not.

144 Amory Blaine  May 17, 2015 3:38:32am

Any Yelp reviews?

145 freetoken  May 17, 2015 3:39:26am

re: #143 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Considering the source (The Daily Star), I think not.

Yeah, but that wasn’t the craziest headline the UK tabloids were running with today. Consider this one:

Comet ‘wiped out highly advanced ancient civilisation after smashing into Earth nearly 13,000 years ago’

It’s just Graham Hancock and his snake oil again.

146 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 17, 2015 3:42:22am

re: #145 freetoken

Yeah, but that wasn’t the craziest headline the UK tabloids were running with today. Consider this one:

Comet ‘wiped out highly advanced ancient civilisation after smashing into Earth nearly 13,000 years ago’

It’s just Graham Hancock and his snake oil again.

Immanuel Velikovskii v. 4.2

147 Dave In Austin  May 17, 2015 3:52:08am

Morning all. Was planning on going fishing this morning. Well, the morning is filled with a whole lotta nope…

148 freetoken  May 17, 2015 4:09:28am

Cattle have nerves of steele:

…

149 Nyet  May 17, 2015 4:10:07am

re: #121 Eclectic Cyborg

You recall correctly. I wish Jesus was around in physical form today as I’d love to see him OBLITERATE (figuratively speaking) the so-called “Christians” in the GOP.

He would be too busy acclimatizing to the 21st century and learning some modern language to be involved in any politics, but even if he had time, his mores would be 2000 years old. Republicans would look like gay commie hippies in comparison, I’m afraid.

150 freetoken  May 17, 2015 4:14:29am

Same storm, yet a different adrenaline junkie, drives through hail and debris and we get to see the windshield sacrificed for the cause:

…

151 freetoken  May 17, 2015 4:15:09am

I’m surprised someone hasn’t come up with a “reality” tv show that is about storm chasing.

152 Nyet  May 17, 2015 4:15:43am

Kadyrov says the terrorist acts were really planned by the US intelligence agencies and doubts Tsarnaev’s guilt. Of course.

instagram.com

153 freetoken  May 17, 2015 4:24:38am

Same storm yet again, but with the better videographers at StormChasingVideo:

…

…

Seems the past couple of weeks there have been several of these large, “wedge” tornadoes.

154 Nyet  May 17, 2015 4:26:41am

Returning to the topic of death penalty:

1. As pointed out by many, death penalty is like a cat. Once it’s out of the bag, you can’t control whether those executed are “really really obviously” guilty or one of those many cases where they were “really really obviously guilty” until DNA established their innocence (for example).

2. Each case is unique and there’s no way to establish some objective parameters that would exclude such mistaken cases. All criminal guilty verdicts are “beyond reasonable doubt”, they’re all on the same plane, so if you can execute a guy caught on video and you can’t someone whose guilt is proven “merely” by forensics/witnesses, it’s not fair, because they were judged by the same “beyond reasonable doubt” standard - if there is an actual doubt about the second guy, he should not be in prison in the first place, right? And if there’s no reasonable doubt, execute away, right?

And that was all under the assumption that no deliberate foul play was involved, that the jury was reasonable, that forensic evidence is all that it’s made out to be etc., etc.

3. Limiting death penalty to only very few “crimes against humanity”/”war crimes” cases doesn’t work either. This presupposes that all countries will act in a responsible manner in such cases. Would you trust e.g. Russia “judging” alleged Ukrainian “war criminals”? I hope not. But if the door is open for death penalty in exceptional cases, there’s no argument against its use by “bad actors”. (They may do it anyway, of course, but sometimes “saving face”/”example of others” is actually a very important political factor. And you can’t complain about them having DP when you have it too. You can only complain about the allegedly unfair process and that’s weak.)

4. Nuremberg, Eichmann, etc. - an emotional appeal, so to say. Sort of a logical fallacy, actually. Well, no, I don’t cry for those criminals, but if they were judged today, I would hope that they would be judged according to civilized norms that would not include death penalty.

5. No, this logic doesn’t mean that we should also get rid of prisons etc. Prisons are a necessary evil, and for those innocents who are there there’s at least a chance of proving innocence. DP is both unnecessary and final. That means that it’s a special case without an analog.

6. I don’t find the arguments like “it’s vengeance so it’s not good” or “state should not be in the business of killing people” persuasive. If there was a perfect judicial system, then I would probably be for DP in some cases. Yes, there are cases, in theory, where DP is appropriate. I’m only against DP because such a justice system is unattainable.

155 Amory Blaine  May 17, 2015 4:40:19am

re: #154 Nyet

Thanks for the recommendation. I have a renewed admiration for Antonio Banderas.

156 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 4:45:56am

re: #141 freetoken

So, this might have happened:

Restaurant closed for serving HUMAN FLESH to customers

Geez, a necromancer opens a restaurant and the accusations fly!
DISCRIMINATION!
/

157 Nyet  May 17, 2015 4:48:55am

re: #156 Varek Raith

Poor Rejiek Hidesman just can’t get no break.

158 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:02:25am

No appeals process at all? Just an eye for an eye justice, perhaps?

Egypt has executed 6 members of a Sinai-based militant group with links to Islamic State - @Reuters
end of alert

Is that revenge for the 2 Egyptian judges, a prosecutor and their driver killed the other day? news.yahoo.com

159 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:05:58am

Wowser, 6 chickens and a rooster outside my patio, picking up the bird seed, as if they’re not fat enough. Well, one did knock on the door, too. : )

Thanks for the eggs!

160 Decatur Deb  May 17, 2015 5:10:25am

re: #154 Nyet

Returning to the topic of death penalty:

….snip DP is both unnecessary and final.

Key word. I can’t claim to be categorically against killing, after working with nukes. At the same time my aesthetic leads me to keep killing anyone to an absolute minimum. After the Eichmann trial I mourned Israel’s lost opportunity to again be a light to the nations.

(edited for fumbles)

161 freetoken  May 17, 2015 5:13:18am

re: #160 Decatur Deb

Key word. I can’t claim to be categorically against killing, after working with nukes.

And here I thought NK was extreme in using anti-aircraft guns to execute their traitors…

162 Timothy Watson  May 17, 2015 5:13:47am

re: #154 Nyet

Returning to the topic of death penalty:

1. As pointed out by many, death penalty is like a cat. Once it’s out of the bag, you can’t control whether those executed are “really really obviously” guilty or one of those many cases where they were “really really obviously guilty” until DNA established their innocence (for example).

2. Each case is unique and there’s no way to establish some objective parameters that would exclude such mistaken cases. All criminal guilty verdicts are “beyond reasonable doubt”, they’re all on the same plane, so if you can execute a guy caught on video and you can’t someone whose guilt is proven “merely” by forensics/witnesses, it’s not fair, because they were judged by the same “beyond reasonable doubt” standard - if there is an actual doubt about the second guy, he should not be in prison in the first place, right? And if there’s no reasonable doubt, execute away, right?

And that was all under the assumption that no deliberate foul play was involved, that the jury was reasonable, that forensic evidence is all that it’s made out to be etc., etc.

3. Limiting death penalty to only very few “crimes against humanity”/”war crimes” cases doesn’t work either. This presupposes that all countries will act in a responsible manner in such cases. Would you trust e.g. Russia “judging” alleged Ukrainian “war criminals”? I hope not. But if the door is open for death penalty in exceptional cases, there’s no argument against its use by “bad actors”. (They may do it anyway, of course, but sometimes “saving face”/”example of others” is actually a very important political factor. And you can’t complain about them having DP when you have it too. You can only complain about the allegedly unfair process and that’s weak.)

4. Nuremberg, Eichmann, etc. - an emotional appeal, so to say. Sort of a logical fallacy, actually. Well, no, I don’t cry for those criminals, but if they were judged today, I would hope that they would be judged according to civilized norms that would not include death penalty.

5. No, this logic doesn’t mean that we should also get rid of prisons etc. Prisons are a necessary evil, and for those innocents who are there there’s at least a chance of proving innocence. DP is both unnecessary and final. That means that it’s a special case without an analog.

6. I don’t find the arguments like “it’s vengeance so it’s not good” or “state should not be in the business of killing people” persuasive. If there was a perfect judicial system, then I would probably be for DP in some cases. Yes, there are cases, in theory, where DP is appropriate. I’m only against DP because such a justice system is unattainable.

Except that “beyond a reasonable doubt” is a pretty nebulous term which the Supreme Court of the United States has refused to exactly define, which means that jury instructions vary across the country.
law.cornell.edu

You can also get into subjective interpretations of the factfinder (the jury or the judge).

163 Decatur Deb  May 17, 2015 5:15:29am

re: #161 freetoken

And here I thought NK was extreme in using anti-aircraft guns to execute their traitors…

DPRK are amateurs.

164 Nyet  May 17, 2015 5:17:32am

re: #162 Timothy Watson

Except that “beyond a reasonable doubt” is a pretty nebulous term which the Supreme Court of the United States has refused to exactly define,

Absolutely, which actually helps my case. If there’s even no agreed upon definition of the standard, we should not be attempting to make final decisions about lives.

165 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:22:35am

I take the Gandhian viewpoint on the DP.

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

166 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:25:28am

Power is of two kinds. One is obtained by the fear of punishment and the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent then the one derived from fear of punishment.

Mahatma Gandhi

167 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 17, 2015 5:26:29am

re: #166 Justanotherhuman

Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent then the one derived from fear of punishment.

Mahatma Gandhi

Double ditto for any form of religion

168 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:28:04am

There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.

Mahatma Gandhi

169 Nyet  May 17, 2015 5:30:30am

re: #166 Justanotherhuman

Well, Gandhi did try to reason with Hitler. Turned out the power of love is not worth much without an army or two. /

170 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 17, 2015 5:42:27am

re: #169 Nyet

Well, Gandhi did try to reason with Hitler. Turned out the power of love is not worth much without an army or two. /

Where did that quote come from: “for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience” ?

171 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 5:44:30am

Years ago, I talked my uncle into going with me to see the movie “Gandhi”.

He didn’t understand it. A lot of people didn’t understand the man himself and his philosophy of non-violence because as a people, we in the US seem to be inured to violence on all levels. The British certainly found out the power of his message as it related to India.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi

re: #169 Nyet

He was a man who had a message of non-violence and wasn’t perfect. But I’d rather follow the non-violent road rather than the revenge-seeking one, even if I sometimes feel like a Quaker caught up in the grip of rage.

172 Decatur Deb  May 17, 2015 5:47:36am

re: #169 Nyet

Well, Gandhi did try to reason with Hitler. Turned out the power of love is not worth much without an army or two. /

But the pope turned out more divisions than Stalin anticipated.

173 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 17, 2015 5:47:49am

I remember one of those “you can’t go back home” moments after leaving the Midwest: I was talking to an acquaintance who had just seen “Gandhi” and was expressing her admiration for the man.

I pointed out that Martin Luther King also adopted a lot his philosophy of nonviolence. To which she commented: “You mean that n*** rabble rouser?”

174 Dr Lizardo  May 17, 2015 5:51:19am

re: #158 Justanotherhuman

No appeals process at all? Just an eye for an eye justice, perhaps?

Egypt has executed 6 members of a Sinai-based militant group with links to Islamic State - @Reuters
end of alert

Is that revenge for the 2 Egyptian judges, a prosecutor and their driver killed the other day? news.yahoo.com

And in return, the “Sinai-based militant group with links to Islamic State” will most likely bump off a few more Egyptian cops or soldiers, or officials, or whatnot. An unceasing cycle of tit-for-tat, eye-for-an-eye.

And pretty soon, the whole world is blind.

175 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 5:57:03am

re: #173 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I remember one of those “you can’t go back home” moments after leaving the Midwest: I was talking to an acquaintance who had just seen “Gandhi” and was expressing her admiration for the man.

I pointed out that Martin Luther King also adopted a lot his philosophy of nonviolence. To which she commented: “You mean that n*** rabble rouser?”

Nothing can get through the filter of racism. It is the bowel blockage of the human mind.

(That’s mine! /)

Morning all!

176 Belafon  May 17, 2015 5:59:31am

re: #174 Dr Lizardo

I doubt the “Sinai-based militant group with links to Islamic State” would care if there was an appeals process.

177 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 6:02:10am

re: #170 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Where did that quote come from: “for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience” ?

Stokely Carmichael. And he was wrong.

“Dr. King’s policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That’s very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.”

178 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 6:22:06am

“The position of women in the movement is prone.”

SC tried to walk that back by saying he was joking, but it was no joke for women involved in the movement. Everyone who was involved politically during those days knew that this was simply a reflection of Black men’s ability to deploy the same attitudes prevalent in US society at the time regarding all women.

Before he died of prostate cancer, Carmichael tried to convince people that the FBI has “poisoned” him with the disease.

Carmichael was a very charismatic, intelligent leader, but as is often the case, got caught up in his own delusions of power and influence. At least, that’s my humble opinion.

179 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 6:29:28am
180 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 6:32:48am

And so it goes.

Syrian Observatory for Human Rights claims US special forces raid in eastern Syria killed 32 Islamic State militants - @AFP
read more on ndtv.com

1h
Fresh fighting kills 20 in Yemen’s Taiz province ahead of end of humanitarian pause - @XHNews
read more on xinhuanet.com

181 Snarknado!  May 17, 2015 6:33:19am

re: #173 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I pointed out that Martin Luther King also adopted a lot his philosophy of nonviolence. To which she commented: “You mean that n*** rabble rouser?”

“Yeah, that’s what the Brits called Gandhi, too.”

182 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 6:40:20am
183 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 6:43:45am
184 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 6:57:28am

You won’t believe this. It’s in addition to the Capistan amt of $21,490 raised.

gofundme.com

No doubt a lot of it will be made up in legal bills defending this “lifestyle”. The kids haven’t been returned, but the parents are permitted supervised visit.

Meanwhile, a new wrinkle wherein Joseph Naugler’s oldest son, 19, told the press that before he was taken away from Naugler at age 4, he suffered physical, mental and sexual abuse at his father’s hands.

wbko.com

“Alex chose to speak to the media about his father. He was taken away at age 4 he says. He said the conditions he was living in at the time in a different state with Joe, weren’t as primitive as their plot of land in Breckinridge County, but said he suffered abuse none the less.

“I got all the beatings. I got most of the mental abuse. There was a lot of sexual abuse towards me. We had a very dysfunctional relationship,” said Brow.”

185 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 7:22:40am
186 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 7:23:17am

re: #185 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Can you install a train horn on a bike?
That be neat.
/

187 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 7:32:25am

re: #186 Varek Raith

Can you install a train horn on a bike?
That be neat.
/

I’d like one on my walking stick!

188 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 7:38:05am

Well, there are Blackhawk helicopters in the area. “We were right! They’re being taken to the closed down Walmart!” #JadeHelm15

189 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 7:39:51am

re: #188 Justanotherhuman

Well, there are Blackhawk helicopters in the area. “We were right! They’re being taken to the closed down Walmart!” #JadeHelm15

[Embedded content]

I’m surprised those Texans aren’t flipping off the copter pilots and crew and refusing to be lifted out.

/

190 darthstar  May 17, 2015 7:42:23am

re: #184 Justanotherhuman

They’re still eight kids short of Duggarville.

191 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 7:43:30am
192 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 7:43:57am

re: #176 Belafon

I doubt the “Sinai-based militant group with links to Islamic State” would care if there was an appeals process.

No, they wouldn’t.

Given that Radical Islamists have had a number of successes organizing prison breaks in the Middle East, I actually defend Egypt and Iraq’s policy of executing ISIS terrorists fairly quickly after conviction. These are very dangerous men who must be long-term or permanently neutralized and unfortunately the situation (especially in Iraq) means that prisons cannot always reliably confine them. And if they cannot be confined, they must be killed. If imprisonment cannot be made reliably permanent for extremely dangerous and ideologically motivated men, then there remains only one solution: They may be able to escape prison, but no one escapes the grave.

This doesn’t apply to terrorists captured by the US, since we can reliably imprison terrorists permanently.

193 darthstar  May 17, 2015 7:49:56am
194 darthstar  May 17, 2015 7:51:07am

re: #191 Backwoods_Sleuth

Born at eight weeks? Shame, Animal Planet…

195 darthstar  May 17, 2015 7:52:35am

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

Egypt’s also executing political opponents and critics right now.

196 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 7:52:37am

re: #194 darthstar

Born at eight weeks? Shame, Animal Planet…

late bloomer….

:D

197 darthstar  May 17, 2015 7:53:15am

re: #196 Backwoods_Sleuth

late bloomer….

:D

Hence the worried look I suppose.

198 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 7:53:20am

re: #189 ObserverArt

I’m surprised those Texans aren’t flipping off the copter pilots and crew and refusing to be lifted out.

/

As I said before, when the alternative is death by drowning, even FEMA camp starts to look endurable.

/Semi-kidding there, but this article isn’t kidding and its a useful ‘from-the-right’ hammering of the Jade Helm Conspiracists:

More Jade Helm Assclownery

You know that 5% that don’t get the word? Well, Texas isn’t just big in area, ranches, and all kinds of other measures: their 5% seems to be a lot bigger than 5%.

Of course, maybe we get that impression because we’re reading Texas media, and you’ll never escape that 5% if you’re in the default position of the modern mediot — embedded neck-deep in your own lower colon.

BIG SPRING - Military officials have negotiated contracts with local ranchers to conduct Jade Helm training on their property, according to Big Spring Mayor Larry McLellan.

However, he said residents will not be “forced out of their homes” to accommodate troops during the large-scale military exercise, scheduled to run July 15 through September 15.

McLellan had no details about the contracts supposedly offered to Big Spring homeowners. Military officials were not available to answer questions about how many ranchers were being displaced or inconvenienced due to Jade Helm, and how much they would receive in compensation.

What are these landowners being compensated for?

Now, it’s possible that some tent camps may be set up on sombody’s ranch — with his permission, while paying him a rental. But a lot of these are for training areas that SF teams and other SF troops are going to walk through. Leaving, if they’re on the ball and comporting with their training, no trace.

How this bubble-headed TV clown gets from there to “ranchers… displaced,” we’ll never know.

It’s possible some staff section or exercise headquarters will want to rent a barn, equipment shed, or outbuilding. What happens if the landowner says no? This will probably shock the $#!+ out of you, the loyal 5% still getting your news from TV newsreaders selected for their head of hair, but in that case they thank him for his time, and go and ask some other landowner.

Here’s a link to the TV ‘news’ story the article beats on like a rented mule.

199 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 7:54:37am

re: #195 darthstar

Egypt’s also executing political opponents and critics right now.

That’s a different, and non-defensible matter.

200 Lord Of The Pies  May 17, 2015 8:00:40am

Today is “Vegan Day” when I make the Mushroom-Barley Soup and the Whole Wheat Challah for the upcoming holiday, so my DIL can enjoy something while everyone else is chowing down on brisket, chicken soup, roast chicken, gefilte fish, broiled salmon, egg challah, cheesecake & blintzes (served at a separate meal).

I’m also making a Vegan Apple Pie using maple syrup instead of the usual white/brown sugar mix.

My granddaughters are strapping teenagers, I don’t see why I can’t show them where all the ingredients & equipment are in the kitchen and let them create the meals while I’m at work. Then I can assign my grandsons to clean up the mess.

201 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 8:06:41am

re: #200 Lord Of The Pies

Today is “Vegan Day” when I make the Mushroom-Barley Soup and the Whole Wheat Challah for the upcoming holiday, so my DIL can enjoy something while everyone else is chowing down on brisket, chicken soup, roast chicken, gefilte fish, broiled salmon, egg challah, cheesecake & blintzes (served at a separate meal).

I’m also making a Vegan Apple Pie using maple syrup instead of the usual white/brown sugar mix.

My granddaughters are strapping teenagers, I don’t see why I can’t show them where all the ingredients & equipment are in the kitchen and let them create the meals while I’m at work. Then I can assign my grandsons to clean up the mess.

May I ask why a vegan pie would use maple syrup rather that white and brown sugars?

202 darthstar  May 17, 2015 8:07:30am

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

That’s a different, and non-defensible matter.

Covered under the same policy you support. Speedy executions! Yay!

203 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 8:10:54am

re: #202 darthstar

Covered under the same policy you support. Speedy executions! Yay!

If you want them done efficiently the private sector should handle it, no bureaucracy to weave through.

204 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 8:11:47am

re: #202 darthstar

Covered under the same policy you support. Speedy executions! Yay!

I only support it in the case of terrorists in countries where said terrorists cannot be reliably incarcerated.

205 Lord Of The Pies  May 17, 2015 8:18:10am

re: #201 ObserverArt

May I ask why a vegan pie would use maple syrup rather that white and brown sugars?

She won’t use sugar that isn’t locally sourced.

206 allegro  May 17, 2015 8:18:36am

re: #204 Dark_Falcon

I only support it in the case of terrorists in countries where said terrorists cannot be reliably incarcerated.

But they can be reliably identified as terrorists with certainty?

207 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 8:18:54am

Oil CEO Wanted University Quake Scientists Dismissed: Dean’s E-Mail

Tell me again how uncontrolled $ and access is freedom of speech.

208 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 8:24:41am

re: #205 Lord Of The Pies

She won’t use sugar that isn’t locally sourced.

Do the maple syrup and apples also have to be locally sourced?

209 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 17, 2015 8:26:03am

re: #205 Lord Of The Pies

She won’t use sugar that isn’t locally sourced.

Sounds like the macrobiotic diet that was popular about 15-20 years ago. You eat only locally produced food + a lot of other restrictions than made no sense to me.

210 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 8:28:39am

There are so many obvious UpChuck jokes with this:

211 bubba zanetti  May 17, 2015 8:31:02am

re: #208 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do the maple syrup and apples also have to be locally sourced?

It probably has to do with the origin of the sugar. White sugar from sugarcane is filtered using bone charcoal, so it’s not vegan. Sugar from sugarbeets isn’t, so it’s OK. If you live in the midwest your sugar probably comes from sugarbeets, so it’s ‘local’, unlike cane sugar from Hawaii.

212 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 8:32:02am

re: #211 bubba zanetti

It probably has to do with the origin of the sugar. White sugar from sugarcane is filtered using bone charcoal, so it’s not vegan. Sugar from sugarbeets isn’t, so it’s OK. If you live in the midwest your sugar probably comes from sugarbeets, so it’s ‘local’, unlike cane sugar from Hawaii.

ah! I figured it had something to do with how white sugar is refined.

213 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 8:34:04am

re: #209 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Sounds like the macrobiotic diet that was popular about 15-20 years ago. You eat only locally produced food + a lot of other restrictions than made no sense to me.

I’ve heard about these diets. What happens if you move?

Does your body revolt for a few months until it adjusts, or do you continue to source food from wherever you previously lived?

And how far away is too far away?

Lord of the Pies…please don’t think I am mocking your DIL. I just sometimes see some of these diets as outlandish and in some ways about as crazy as being a denier of vaccines or medicine.

214 sagehen  May 17, 2015 8:34:48am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

What are these landowners being compensated for?

Now, it’s possible that some tent camps may be set up on sombody’s ranch — with his permission, while paying him a rental. But a lot of these are for training areas that SF teams and other SF troops are going to walk through. Leaving, if they’re on the ball and comporting with their training, no trace.

If they’re driving heavy trucks or tanks across the property, if they’re taking down fences, if they’re scaring the cattle (or the cattle have to be temporarily moved and then brought back), if they’re making a lot of noise and kicking up dust and the family can’t relax on their porch and the dogs have to be locked in the garage…

215 Eventual Carrion  May 17, 2015 8:36:43am

re: #182 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Hey guys No I can’t go to the watering hole. Got a honey-do list.

216 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 8:39:09am

re: #213 ObserverArt

I was on a macrobiotic diet back in the 80s. Never felt so tired in my life, even though I didn’t eat any meat of any kind but had been an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I had virtually no energy.

I’ll never do it again and since I’ve gotten “elderly” I’ve introduced turkey and limited chicken back into my diet as well, but no red or “white” meat from mammal sources.

217 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 8:46:27am

Is this now Day 3 of Death Penalty Debate MCXVII: Electric Boogaloo?

218 Snarknado!  May 17, 2015 8:49:14am

re: #213 ObserverArt

I’ve heard about these diets. What happens if you move?

Does your body revolt for a few months until it adjusts, or do you continue to source food from wherever you previously lived?

And how far away is too far away?

Lord of the Pies…please don’t think I am mocking your DIL. I just sometimes see some of these diets as outlandish and in some ways about as crazy as being a denier of vaccines or medicine.

Back when macribiotics became a fad for the first (I think) time, a friend of my mother kept it rigidly for a year or so. Followed by months of hospitalization for malnutrition. She nearly died.

219 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 8:55:40am

Yeesh. Several hate messages waiting for me on Twitter this morning, from “Weev’s” fans. Lovely people.

220 witw  May 17, 2015 9:01:09am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

The military is paying for access to large areas of undeveloped desert land. There will be ancillary benefits to surrounding communities which every business owner is aware of. One of the counties, Howard, had a large air base so has existing infrastructure for landing large military aircraft. The very few die hards who are objecting are met with scorn which has been largely unreported. Our local Rep was caught criticizing Abbott for “pandering” and has not walked that back.

221 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 9:03:39am

So, I’m making a chicken pot with fresh diced white meat, carrots, celery, onion, Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper, and will add tri-color farfalle for a complete meal with a salad.

Ha! This says $10.80 for the farfalle, but I got it on sale at the local supermarket for $2.50, about half their usual price. Lucky me! raos.com

I thought they were pretty, but not actually “homemade”. : )

The supermarket actually had organic carrots, also, a 2 lb bag for $1.19. There isn’t an awful lot to choose from around here, though. And I’m not going with the packaged “health foods” sold in the supermarkets, either.

222 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 9:07:34am

When you point out what bad people they are, they make your point.

223 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 9:13:04am

I’m ready for the next True Detective. The first one was epic and may be hard to beat.

224 Lidane  May 17, 2015 9:15:55am

Hola Lizards! It’s a dreary, rainy Sunday here in the ATX and I am exhausted and sore. I spent all day yesterday moving. Ow. I think I discovered muscles I’d never used before and my body hates me.

Whenever I move again, it will involve me packing everything and hiring movers. This DIY shit is for masochists.

225 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 9:17:32am

Thirsty? Just wait till ya read up on the California drought. It could last far longer than we might imagine.

226 allegro  May 17, 2015 9:17:52am

re: #224 Lidane

Hola Lizards! It’s a dreary, rainy Sunday here in the ATX and I am exhausted and sore. I spent all day yesterday moving. Ow. I think I discovered muscles I’d never used before and my body hates me.

Whenever I move again, it will involve me packing everything and hiring movers. This DIY shit is for masochists.

One reason I love living in a motorhome. Just secure the breakables, unhook from the power/water pole and start the engine. :D

227 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 9:25:38am

re: #220 witw

It’s not me or the article author who needs to be convinced: We both know this hysteria is stupid and without basis in reality, and he clearly thinks the exercise is a needed thing, which it is. The people who need to be brought back to reality are those so high on hate and fear that they’ve ascended all the way to Cloud Cuckooland.

228 urbanmeemaw  May 17, 2015 9:27:35am

re: #221 Justanotherhuman

That sounds sort of like my chicken noodle soup recipe. Would you mind sharing your recipe? It sounds yummy and I would like to try it. Would it be good in a crock pot?

229 Lidane  May 17, 2015 9:30:55am

re: #226 allegro

One reason I love living in a motorhome. Just secure the breakables, unhook from the power/water pole and start the engine. :D

I had been living in a manufactured home until recently, then the landlord sold the lot where it was at. Then I had to move.

What made it harder was the timing. It sold at the end of April, meaning I had until the end of May to leave. That was fine until my landlord realized the home would have to be moved because the new owner bought the land, not what was ON the land. The new owner is not going to spend extra money to move or trash the house. So all of a sudden my 30 days to move became two weeks so they could prep and move the house to another location, which they don’t have yet.

Thank SRV for apartment location services. I found a new place I could afford and got moved. I’m just flat broke until my next check. That’s ok though. I’ll survive.

230 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:34:56am
231 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:37:43am
232 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 9:38:24am

re: #225 Great White Snark

Thirsty? Just wait till ya read up on the California drought. it could last far longer than we might imagine.

Speaking of water woes:
Book Review: Karen Piper, The Price of Thirst: Global Water Inequality and the Coming Chaos - Lawyers, Guns & Money : Lawyers, Guns & Money

233 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 9:42:53am

re: #220 witw

The military is paying for access to large areas of undeveloped desert land. There will be ancillary benefits to surrounding communities which every business owner is aware of. One of the counties, Howard, had a large air base so has existing infrastructure for landing large military aircraft. The very few die hards who are objecting are met with scorn which has been largely unreported. Our local Rep was caught criticizing Abbott for “pandering” and has not walked that back.

That part I highlighted in bold type…can you clarify that a bit? If I understand correctly, why would the media not report it? I would think the majority of the state would think it was stupid. If the media wants hits/reads why wouldn’t they report it?

Of course, I’ve already given up on the fact they would report it because it needed to be reported, but if they are out just to make bucks, I would think they’d go with the majority.

Is there some political pressure to keep the “scary Obama takeover” theme going?

234 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:43:47am

good grief…

235 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 9:44:06am

OMG academia.

236 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 9:44:37am

re: #234 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good grief…

Beat me!

237 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 9:46:11am

re: #228 urbanmeemaw

That sounds sort of like my chicken noodle soup recipe. Would you mind sharing your recipe? It sounds yummy and I would like to try it. Would it be good in a crock pot?

It’s just 2 chicken breasts, cubed, cooked in a couple of cups of water (plus, I add a can of chicken broth when I add the veggies and any extra water needed); 3 or 4 carrots (depending on size), sliced; half an onion, chopped; 3 ribs of celery, diced; parsley; season w/salt and pepper, and you can add rice and noodles of any kind, quinoa, or whatever. Usually I wind up with “stewp”, neither stew nor soup. : ) It makes enough for 4 supersized bowls. I don’t measure anything and season it to taste. It’s really the easiest thing to make and tastes so good.

I imagine you could use a crock pot; why not?

238 witw  May 17, 2015 9:47:10am

re: #233 ObserverArt

Yes there is great political pressure to keep the wingnuts filled with fear and dread, the same as what has made fortunes in hate radio. It has been reported out here simply because our local tv has to allow elected officials to speak and they have universally scorned and condemned the fear mongering. Naturally they had the briefest of opportunities and so far the only national recognition I’ve seen is from Josh Marshall who picked up local reporting on Conaway’s astonishing admission that Abbott was needlessly pandering to that element.

239 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 9:48:20am

Hough is a Poli Sci professor, for what it’s worth.
“His current research centers on the establishment of the state, identity, markets, and democracy in the United States. His first book on the subject is Changing Party Coalitions: The Strange Red-Blue State Alignment (2006). His next book is George Washington and the formation of the American Political System, 1774-1799. The book focuses on the political philosophy of the Founding Fathers and the way that they solved the religions conflicts and the collective action problems of the revolution and the Constitutional Convention. Hough also writes on the implications for current Iraq.”

240 darthstar  May 17, 2015 9:48:35am

Practice, practice, practice…driver’s unhurt.

241 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 9:51:02am

LOL. Jim Treacher doesn’t understand that Chuck retweeted this yesterday, and he’s calling me stupid.

242 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 9:52:38am

re: #241 Charles Johnson

Makes you wonder just how high these idiots are, doesn’t it?

243 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:52:43am

re: #237 Justanotherhuman

Right now, I’m got some chopped up chicken thighs (initially sauteed with a variety of spices) simmering in a can of cream of chicken soup (undiluted).
In a few minutes, I’ll add a couple of generous dollops of sour cream and lots of Hungarian paprika, then serve over some homemade handcut egg noodles.

There will be no leftovers…
:D

244 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:53:11am

re: #240 darthstar

Practice, practice, practice…driver’s unhurt.

[Embedded content]

YOWSER!!!

245 darthstar  May 17, 2015 9:53:27am
246 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:54:43am

re: #235 wrenchwench

UpChuck will be retweeting that soon as he wakes up.

247 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 9:54:45am

re: #243 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sounds great! I’ll have to remember that one. Not a big fan of dark meat, but sour cream makes up for it. : )

248 Iwouldprefernotto  May 17, 2015 9:55:16am

re: #246 Backwoods_Sleuth

UpChuck will be retweeting that soon as he wakes sobers up.

249 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 9:56:11am

re: #246 Backwoods_Sleuth

UpChuck will be retweeting that soon as he wakes up.

It made me think UpChuck has the capacity to be a Duke professor.

250 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:56:33am

re: #247 Justanotherhuman

Sounds great! I’ll have to remember that one. Not a big fan of dark meat, but sour cream makes up for it. : )

I usually use chicken breasts because that’s what MrBWS prefers (and they are easier to cut up into bite-size portions), but he bought a bunch of thighs because he know I prefer dark meat.

251 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:57:25am

re: #248 Iwouldprefernotto

UpChuck will be retweeting that soon as he wakes sobers up.

Well, we know that will never happen…

252 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:58:13am
253 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 9:59:10am
254 darthstar  May 17, 2015 10:00:05am

re: #240 darthstar

Practice, practice, practice…driver’s unhurt.

[Embedded content]

Same wreck - video from different angles.

…

255 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 17, 2015 10:00:26am

re: #240 darthstar

Practice, practice, practice…driver’s unhurt.

[Embedded content]

My first thought was that something is wrong with the aerodynamics of the cars. Then I read:

All three drivers who’ve become airborne use Chevrolet-designed cars. Indianapolis is the first speedway race of the new Chevrolet and Honda aerodynamic body kits introduced this season. The sanctioning body and Chevrolet officials said Friday there was no correlation between the crashes, but IndyCar called a meeting of teams following Carpenter’s wreck Sunday morning.

Just because three cars using the new Chevrolet body kits all became airborne and flipped doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with the kits. Amirite?

256 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 10:00:55am

re: #250 Backwoods_Sleuth

I usually use chicken breasts because that’s what MrBWS prefers (and they are easier to cut up into bite-size portions), but he bought a bunch of thighs because he know I prefer dark meat.

I usually use leg-thigh quarters because the white meat is so much more expensive. I’m talking $$$ per lbs.

257 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:01:20am

re: #240 darthstar

Practice, practice, practice…driver’s unhurt.

[Embedded content]

I’ve mentioned before I was a long time IndyCar fan, even worked with a top team many years ago.

IMS and the Hulman family were drunk on power and wanted complete control of the series back from the teams that formed CART back in 1979. They made their moves to start the competing IRL/Indycar series and it has never been more screwed up.

They went to spec cars with mandated elements set by the IRL sanctioning body. They took away all the creativity and the ‘racer’ doing that.

Today they are suffering badly with these cars that have a propensity to act as a lifting body. They have had problems with the spec cars “flying” since 2003. What do I mean by flying? Watch one of the crashes. Sure open wheel cars have jumped tires and gotten up in the air. But the IRL/Indycars are prone to float and lift from the initial raising of the car.

All I know is I feel deep in my bones that if you allowed real racers and real racecar builders to design a car they would be nothing like those stupid, ugly, heavy-assed pieces of crap.

Am I pissed? You bet. 20 years and they’ve about killed the sport and much of it led to me losing my jobs in the industry.

Grrrrr!

258 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 10:02:57am

re: #255 Higgs Boson’s Mate

My first thought was that something is wrong with the aerodynamics of the cars. Then I read:

Just because three cars using the new Chevrolet body kits all became airborne and flipped doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with the kits. Amirite?

Total coincidence, man.

259 darthstar  May 17, 2015 10:04:06am

re: #255 Higgs Boson’s Mate

My first thought was that something is wrong with the aerodynamics of the cars. Then I read:

Just because three cars using the new Chevrolet body kits all became airborne and flipped doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with the kits. Amirite?

Of course not. Simple coincidence.

260 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 10:04:30am

re: #257 ObserverArt

I’ve mentioned before I was a long time IndyCar fan, even worked with a top team many years ago.

IMS and the Hulman family were drunk on power and wanted complete control of the series back from the teams that formed CART back in 1979. They made their moves to start the competing IRL/Indycar series and the it has never been more screwed up.

They went to spec cars with mandated elements set by the IRL sanctioning body. They took away all the creativity and the ‘racer’ doing that.

Today they are suffering badly with these cars that have a propensity to act as a lifting body. They have had problems with the spec cars “flying” since 2003. What do I mean by flying? Watch one of the crashes. Sure open wheel cars have jumped tires and gotten up in the air. But the IRL/Indycars are prone to float and lift from the initial raising of the car.

All I know is I feel deep in my bones that if you allowed real racers and rear racecar builders to design a car they would be nothing like those stupid, ugly, heavy-assed pieces of crap.

Am I pissed? You bet, 20 years and they’ve about killed the sport and much of it led to me losing my jobs in the industry.

Grrrrr!

You’d think they could learn something from F1 about downforce. Or maybe talk to Mercedes.

From 1999
…

261 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:04:48am

re: #243 Backwoods_Sleuth

Right now, I’m got some chopped up chicken thighs (initially sauteed with a variety of spices) simmering in a can of cream of chicken soup (undiluted).
In a few minutes, I’ll add a couple of generous dollops of sour cream and lots of Hungarian paprika, then serve over some homemade handcut egg noodles.

There will be no leftovers…
:D

Mmmm. A quick Chicken Paprikash. I used to make it very similar to your recipe. I also added a lot of onion powder and pepper to heat it up a bit and to add to the paprika.

262 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 10:05:51am

re: #261 ObserverArt

Mmmm. A quick Chicken Paprikash. I used to make it very similar to your recipe. I also added a lot of onion powder and pepper to heat it up a bit and to add to the paprika.

Yep! I usually use cream of mushroom soup for this, but grabbed the cream of chicken by mistake. Still smells great!

264 darthstar  May 17, 2015 10:08:27am

re: #257 ObserverArt

I always enjoyed watching the Indy 500 when I was a kid. AJ Foyt, Mario Andretti, etc. - those guys could drive. And the cars were fast enough. Today’s cars look like wings…and they haven’t gotten that much more speed out of them…and of course they can’t handle the speed they have.

265 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:09:25am

This seems, for the most part, to happen in SUVs. At least this dad remembered, thankfully, and even called 911.

FATHER ON TRAIN REALIZES HE LEFT 1-YEAR-OLD BABY IN CAR, CALLS 911

7online.com

266 darthstar  May 17, 2015 10:11:51am

re: #265 Justanotherhuman

This seems, for the most part, to happen in SUVs. At least this dad remembered, thankfully, and even called 911.

FATHER ON TRAIN REALIZES HE LEFT 1-YEAR-OLD BABY IN CAR, CALLS 911

7online.com

Yes, 911? I left my baby in the car. Can you put it in a locker for me and put the key on top of the driver’s side wheel. I’ll be back in eight hours. Oh, and please don’t tell my wife. KTHXBAI!

267 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:14:42am

re: #266 darthstar

Yes, 911? I left my baby in the car. Can you put it in a locker for me and put the key on top of the driver’s side wheel. I’ll be back in eight hours. Oh, and please don’t tell my wife. KTHXBAI!

No, he immediately hopped a return train and called 911. She was in the vehicle for 35 min. Could have been far worse, though, had he not remembered.

269 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:16:33am

The Stressful Life. Glad that’s behind me now.

270 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:17:38am

re: #263 Varek Raith

Democratic congresswoman makes offensive ‘war whoop’ comment — and Native Americans are outraged

I bet the immigrant Indians (from India) are also outraged. Shame on her.

271 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:18:10am

re: #259 darthstar

Of course not. Simple coincidence.

It is not coincidence. It is design. I could find you plenty of video to show you they have had this problem for years. It killed Dan Wheldon back at the end of 2011.

What are they really worried about. One of those “cars” getting up in the air at the start of the race, having another car get under it and flip one into the stands.

If you think I am being overly dramatic, watch this video from 2003 when Mario Andretti was practicing and setting up one of Michael Andretti’s cars. 2003. 12 years and they have known they have this issue.

All Mario hit was a piece of foam from the safer wall. It lifted the car just a bit and up she went. Looked to be almost as high as the fence. A slight angle change and it would have crushed the fence and ended in the seats.

Real race cars would not have acted like that. And I have way too many more examples. But IMS has always turned a blind eye.

Grrrrr. I’m going to back out after this post. I mean it when I say this pisses me off. I’ve been an auto racing fan for all my life. If they get one into the stands it may kill the sport for good.

…

272 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 17, 2015 10:19:58am

re: #257 ObserverArt

They went to spec cars with mandated elements set by the IRL sanctioning body. They took away all the creativity and the ‘racer’ doing that.

That’s just plain silly. I can see a class like Spec Miata because there are a ton of Miatas out there already. A spec system for purpose built single seat race cars is guaranteed to stifle innovation and focus the teams’ efforts on micro cheating.

273 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:20:02am

Amazing, the things that are left untouched. Must not have been much wind circulating on that side of the room if even the curtains are still there.

274 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:20:50am

re: #262 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep! I usually use cream of mushroom soup for this, but grabbed the cream of chicken by mistake. Still smells great!

Yeah, that is what I always used too…cream of ‘shrooms.

Damn, I’m going to have to make it again sometime.

It is also good with meatballs for Swedish meatballs too. Same basic thing.

275 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 10:21:45am

re: #257 ObserverArt

I have always been a fan of motor racing. Heck a fond memory of Mom was going to the long gone Woodland Hills Cinerama Dome and watching a closed circuit feed of the 1968 race. Which was a very good race indeed! I recall the jet cars that came and went. I remember guys getting spun out at speed from the bad airflow behind and off to the side a bit. (1980’s maybe?) Aerodynamics has been a big challenge for a long time. Ever since 150mph maybe? Since you have the experience, got any idea if they are lifting because of the setup, too light in an effort to go faster, or an inherently bad shape? Honest question.

276 urbanmeemaw  May 17, 2015 10:22:44am

re: #237 Justanotherhuman

Thank you!!! I’m glad someone else makes “stewp” besides me! I will add onions and make mine stewpier the next time vs. soupier. I have also added cubed potatoes to my chicken noodle soup.

277 urbanmeemaw  May 17, 2015 10:24:42am

re: #243 Backwoods_Sleuth

That sounds good, too!

278 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 10:25:05am

re: #271 ObserverArt

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
As was I.
:)

279 blueraven  May 17, 2015 10:26:30am

BREAKING: The Clinton’s made a lot of money! //

Our media sucks.

280 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:27:06am

re: #278 Varek Raith

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
As was I.
:)

When somebody denies an obvious reality, it’s either sarcasm or it’s something that’s going to cost them a lot of money.

281 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:27:44am

re: #272 Higgs Boson’s Mate

That’s just plain silly. I can see a class like Spec Miata because there are a ton of Miatas out there already. A spec system for purpose built single seat race cars is guaranteed to stifle innovation and focus the teams’ efforts on micro cheating.

You seem to know your racing. That is why Roger Penske spends gazillions on tight fitting body panels and tons of aero testing to find a tenth of a second. Team Target has an old tunnel that was closed in Pennsylvania that has a grade, They test for friction in it. Friction from wheel bearings in the suspension uprights to allow a freer car. A small team can’t afford that crap and a creative engineering team can’t come up with the tricks to beat it.

Jim Hall and Colin Champman are spinning in their graves.

Later folks.

282 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:28:30am

re: #278 Varek Raith

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
As was I.
:)

I know…but I can’t overcome my passion.

Leaving dammit…

283 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:30:37am

Definitely not the best way to kill yourself.

Woman fatally struck by red line train in Silver Spring station

Read more: wjla.com
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook

284 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:30:38am
285 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:33:43am

re: #284 wrenchwench

Heh.

croque monsieur

286 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:35:31am

More rain on the way…

287 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:35:59am

re: #285 Justanotherhuman

Heh.

croque monsieur

Yeah, I had to look it up. Sounds good!

288 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 10:37:49am

re: #284 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That’s bad.
Real bad.
You should be ashamed!
///

289 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 10:38:20am
290 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:38:46am

re: #288 Varek Raith

That’s bad.
Real bad.
You should be ashamed!
///

Try this one:

291 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 10:38:55am

re: #275 Great White Snark

I have always been a fan of motor racing. Heck a fond memory of Mom was going to the long gone Woodland Hills Cinerama Dome and watching a closed circuit feed of the 1968 race. Which was a very good race indeed! I recall the jet cars that came and went. I remember guys getting spun out at speed from the bad airflow behind and off to the side a bit. (1980’s maybe?) Aerodynamics has been a big challenge for a long time. Ever since 150mph maybe? Since you have the experience, got any idea if they are lifting because of the setup, too light in an effort to go faster, or an inherently bad shape? Honest question.

Damn…gotta answer this.

I think it is to do with the big ass “plate” bottom of the car. It is wide and long. Why so big? Well, since they were competing with CART many of the drivers were not as talented as needed for this type of racing. So, to help keep them from interlocking wheels (which a precision driver can handle) they brought the wings, the sidepods and a lot of other stuff farther out to keep the wheels protected. The new car sine 2012 is even more like this. Heck, I don’t consider them to even be “open wheel” cars anymore.

There are probably other things all adding to the problems, but it starts there.

The biggest issue. The cars are mandated designs by the sanctioning body built by an Italian company to that spec. They are not built by the old companies (Many now out of business…sigh) which had the history of the designs for so many years. Again, if Lola, March, Swift or Reynard were still in business and building the cars, they sure as hell would not look anything like these cars.

Let the racers race!

Okay…now I am logging out. See everyone later. Gonna grab some lunch and get ready to watch some other sports like the NBA as I bang on my house.

292 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 10:42:13am

re: #290 wrenchwench

Try this one:

[Embedded content]

*Kif sigh*

293 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:44:48am

Female officer shot in SD; will be OK, but the suspect sounds like a loon.

More: Suspect has not been identified but officials say he may have been wanted in a series of shootings at buildings in San Diego - @nbcsandiego
read more on nbcsandiego.com

6m
San Diego officer wounded is 5-year veteran and is a field training officer, was with trainee at the time of shooting - @nbcsandiego
read more on nbcsandiego.com

Suspect has been shot, and may be dead in San Diego police shooting - @10News
see original on twitter.com

(Not sure if that’s true or not on the suspect being dead.)

294 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:48:48am

Looks like he’s dead for sure.

295 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 10:50:46am

re: #292 Varek Raith

*Kif sigh*

This one?

296 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 10:53:53am

Off to the park on this beautiful day. : )

297 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 10:56:11am

re: #295 wrenchwench

This one?

[Embedded content]

Yep.

298 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 17, 2015 10:58:34am

I know somebody linked to this story of Florida Man™ trying to cash a $68 billion check before, but via Wonkette:

Armed with his identification and fully expecting the check to be cashed, Waters was befuddled when he learned that the blank check that he bought from a homeless man called Tito was unusable.

When the tellers became suspicious, Waters explained that a homeless man by the name of Tito Watts had sold him the blank U.S. Bank of Idaho check (which was issued in the ’90s) for 100 bucks a few months ago.

Tito, the “upstanding” guy that he is, told Waters that he can go ahead and cash the check for whatever amount his heart desires.

“Tito said the check was good for any amount I wanted to write it for. So blame Tito, not me. I’m as innocent as a schoolgirl,” said the Florida native.

Cripes! 30 and 35 years ago I had my bank slapping a 3-day hold on my paycheck because it was drawn on a different branch of the same bank. I should have asked for $23.872 billion! (Bureau of Labor Statistics Inflation Calculator-adjusted.)

299 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:02:07am

re: #291 ObserverArt

Damn…gotta answer this.

I think it is to do with the big ass “plate” bottom of the car. It is wide and long. Why so big? Well, since they were competing with CART many of the drivers were not as talented as needed for this type of racing. So, to help keep them from interlocking wheels (which a precision driver can handle) they brought the wings, the sidepods and a lot of other stuff farther out to keep the wheels protected. The new car sine 2012 is even more like this. Heck, I don’t consider them to even be “open wheel” cars anymore.

There are probably other things all adding to the problems, but it starts there.

The biggest issue. The cars are mandated designs by the sanctioning body built by an Italian company to that spec. They are not built by the old companies (Many now out of business…sigh) which had the history of the designs for so many years. Again, if Lola, March, Swift or Reynard were still in business and building the cars, they sure as hell would not look anything like these cars.

Let the racers race!

Okay…now I am logging out. See everyone later. Gonna grab some lunch and get ready to watch some other sports like the NBA as I bang on my house.

! Thank You for the well considered answer, hope you see this… I’m convinced.

300 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 11:04:39am
301 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 11:12:03am

re: #300 Charles Johnson

I do think that kind of money for a goddamn speech is obscene, IDGAF who’s getting paid.

Would that get me to vote GOP? No.

(I’d actually like to see the Obamas be a little more toned down on the speech fee side than the last two presidents have been).

302 b.d.  May 17, 2015 11:12:04am

re: #300 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Glenn speaks for free?

303 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 11:12:09am
304 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:14:36am

re: #300 Charles Johnson

Hard to believe anyone is surprised that former presidents and first ladies command high speaking fees. pic.twitter.com

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) May 17, 2015

Apparently the wingnuts forgot about this beauty of a quote:

“I’ll Give Some Speeches, Just to Replenish the Ol’ Coffers.”
~g dubyah bush, 07/06/2008

305 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:15:35am

Where’s the fake outrage??

First, Mr. Bush said, “I’ll give some speeches, just to replenish the ol’ coffers.” With assets that have been estimated as high as nearly $21 million, Mr. Bush added, “I don’t know what my dad gets - it’s more than 50-75” thousand dollars a speech, and “Clinton’s making a lot of money.”

Then he said, “We’ll have a nice place in Dallas,” where he will be running what he called “a fantastic Freedom Institute” promoting democracy around the world. But he added, “I can just envision getting in the car, getting bored, going down to the ranch.”

From: crooksandliars.com

306 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 11:17:12am

re: #305 Dr. Matt

Didn’t they sell that ranch?

307 blueraven  May 17, 2015 11:17:54am

This from 2013. I am sure he gets even more now.

George W. Bush, former president — $110,000

W’s made about $110,000 per address, says Yahoo! News. He’s earned at least $15 million since he left office in 2009. His approval ratings have seen an upturn recently, which may bode well for him in terms of speaking requests.

308 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:18:35am

re: #306 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

Didn’t they sell that ranch?

Not sure. That quote is from 2008.

309 blueraven  May 17, 2015 11:21:36am

re: #307 blueraven

This from 2013. I am sure he gets even more now.

George W. Bush, former president — $110,000

Also, considering public opinion of “W v. Bubba”, I would say W is fairing quite nicely. I mean for a guy who took us into the wrong war and destroyed our economy…

310 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:21:59am

re: #307 blueraven

But he’s not going to move back into the WH. Bill Clinton might so the comparison has that limit. Becomes the same question for two families-Might big speaking fees paid recently and in the near future equate to undue influence in the WH 2016-2020?

Sure would be simpler if we had two leading candidates far less attached to such powerful families.

311 blueraven  May 17, 2015 11:24:30am

re: #310 Great White Snark

But he’s not going to move back into the WH. Bill Clinton might so the comparison has that limit. Becomes the same question for two families-Might big speaking fees paid recently and in the near future equate to undue influence in the WH 2016-2020?

Sure would be simpler if we had two leading candidates far less attached to such powerful families.

Well, his brother may be moving into the WH. So the comparison is appropriate.

312 allegro  May 17, 2015 11:24:41am

re: #310 Great White Snark

But he’s not going to move back into the WH. Bill Clinton might so the comparison has that limit. Becomes the same question for two families-Might big speaking fees paid recently and in the near future equate to undue influence in the WH 2016-2020?

Sure would be simpler if we had two leading candidates far less attached to such powerful families.

Have all of the GOP presidential candidates been speaking for free all this time?

313 Lord Of The Pies  May 17, 2015 11:26:47am

re: #213 ObserverArt

I’ve heard about these diets. What happens if you move?

Does your body revolt for a few months until it adjusts, or do you continue to source food from wherever you previously lived?

And how far away is too far away?

Lord of the Pies…please don’t think I am mocking your DIL. I just sometimes see some of these diets as outlandish and in some ways about as crazy as being a denier of vaccines or medicine.

At least she’s not gluten free.

314 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:27:06am

re: #312 allegro

How many are moving back into the WH with the winner?

re: #311 blueraven

Hence I said question for TWO candidates, right? A question both families should face. If an issue like that originates as one sided, need it come off the table completely, or simply be more fairly applied?

315 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:27:21am

re: #310 Great White Snark

But he’s not going to move back into the WH. Bill Clinton might so the comparison has that limit. Becomes the same question for two families-Might big speaking fees paid recently and in the near future equate to undue influence in the WH 2016-2020?

Sure would be simpler if we had two leading candidates far less attached to such powerful families.

You do realize that nearly every politician gets speaking fees?

316 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 11:29:30am

re: #310 Great White Snark

But he’s not going to move back into the WH. Bill Clinton might so the comparison has that limit. Becomes the same question for two families-Might big speaking fees paid recently and in the near future equate to undue influence in the WH 2016-2020?

Sure would be simpler if we had two leading candidates far less attached to such powerful families.

Oh come off it. “Undue influence” in post-Citizens United politics? Do you think any candidate who is “less attached” is going to be under less pressure to play to powerful interests in order to have the funds to campaign on equal terms?

317 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:29:58am

re: #315 Dr. Matt

You do realize that nearly every politician gets speaking fees?

Yes of course. Do those speech fees come with a guarantee of never being questioned from an influence standpoint when one or another may be going back to the WH?

318 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:30:39am

re: #316 Targetpractice

Is citizens united really supposed to make me ignore other questions of money and influence? I don’t think so.

319 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 11:30:55am

re: #315 Dr. Matt

You do realize that nearly every politician gets speaking fees?

OTOH, most of those politicians just want to sell books or get a paid gig on cable news.

320 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:31:01am

re: #317 Great White Snark

Yes of course. Do those speech fees come with a guarantee of never being questioned from an influence standpoint when one or another may be going back to the WH?

Your concern is laughable.

321 Dr. Matt  May 17, 2015 11:32:29am

re: #319 Backwoods_Sleuth

OTOH, most of those politicians just want to sell books or get a paid gig on cable news.

Yeah, but, uh, do those payments come with a guarantee of never being questioned from an influence standpoint when one or another may be elected in the present or future?!!? ///

322 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 11:33:49am

re: #318 Great White Snark

Is citizens united really supposed to make me ignore other questions of money and influence? I don’t think so.

It renders any hand-wringing over such moot. Are you going to ask a candidate to willingly handcap their own campaign just so you can feel good about their not being influenced? Do you believe that a Republican in the White House means there will be any genuine effort to address your concerns about money in politics?

323 allegro  May 17, 2015 11:34:20am

re: #314 Great White Snark

How many are moving back into the WH with the winner?

The winner will be. So it only matters if the winner’s spouse or brother gets paid and not the winner him or herself?

324 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:35:03am

re: #320 Dr. Matt

Calling me a troll? -1

If that’s where this is going for my sin of being less impressed with the candidate you obviously care for deeply, I can spare us both the aggravation. OTOH we could have a conversation less loaded with insults and harsh assumptions.

325 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 11:35:06am

Funny how people and media only care about the Clinton’s money.

326 blueraven  May 17, 2015 11:35:59am

re: #314 Great White Snark

How many are moving back into the WH with the winner?

What difference does that make if many of the candidates are making big money?

Just ask Bill Zanker, founder and president of the Learning Annex. Zanker hired Trump in 2005 to speak at three real estate investing seminars for $1 million a pop. Those went so well that the company proceeded to hire The Donald for another 17 seminars in 2006 and 2007 for $1.5 million each. Zanker claims that he’s turned a profit on every event, where admission prices top out around $500. He also co-authored Trump’s 2007 book Think Big And Kick Ass In Business And Life.

“He’s worth every penny,” Zanker says. “I’ve been doing this for 30 years. There is no better business speaker than Donald Trump. He attracts the biggest crowds in the world.”

Zanker says he even offered Paris Hilton a million dollars last year to speak at a Learning Annex seminar on building your own brand. She turned him down.

Oh yeah, Donald Trump, Paris Hilton; certainly more impressive than the Clintons. /

327 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 11:37:03am

re: #325 Varek Raith

Funny how people and media only care about the Clinton’s money.

No shit, has Hillary gone about kissing Sheldon Adelson’s ring? Are the Kochs talking about how they want her to be president? Fuck no, instead we’re sitting here, getting worked up because Bill’s made a mint on speaking fees and worrying about “undue influence” from such.

328 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:37:36am

re: #325 Varek Raith

Funny how people and media only care about the Clinton’s money.

And surprising that taking an unfairly aimed question to both sides would earn such scorn from some right here. Apparently it’s a bad minute to consider what is usually a legit topic-The connection between money and influence.

329 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 11:38:14am

re: #271 ObserverArt

It is not coincidence. It is design. I could find you plenty of video to show you they have had this problem for years. It killed Dan Wheldon back at the end of 2011.

What are they really worried about. One of those “cars” getting up in the air at the start of the race, having another car get under it and flip one into the stands.

If you think I am being overly dramatic, watch this video from 2003 when Mario Andretti was practicing and setting up one of Michael Andretti’s cars. 2003. 12 years and they have known they have this issue.

All Mario hit was a piece of foam from the safer wall. It lifted the car just a bit and up she went. Looked to be almost as high as the fence. A slight angle change and it would have crushed the fence and ended in the seats.

Real race cars would not have acted like that. And I have way too many more examples. But IMS has always turned a blind eye.

Grrrrr. I’m going to back out after this post. I mean it when I say this pisses me off. I’ve been an auto racing fan for all my life. If they get one into the stands it may kill the sport for good.

[Embedded content]

Greg Moore.

Either Tagliani or Carpentier had the car fly over a fence during one race years ago.

330 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 11:41:53am

re: #329 b_sharp

Greg Moore.

Either Tagliani or Carpentier had the car fly over a fence during one race years ago.

Kyle Larson’s car went through the fence NASCAR’s Nationwide Series opener at Daytona in 2013; 14 racefans went to the hospital and another 14 were treated at the track.

331 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:43:26am

I don’t troll this place. or anywhere else. At this point, I suggest the comments and Pages I have put in here should settle that accusation in full, and honestly I feel I’m owed an apology for that accusation.

Dr Matt, I have no problem with us being quite some distance apart on politics. But you can not find a single instance where I called you or any legit poster here a troll. Not once.

332 blueraven  May 17, 2015 11:44:24am

re: #328 Great White Snark

And surprising that taking an unfairly aimed question to both sides would earn such scorn from some right here. Apparently it’s a bad minute to consider what is usually a legit topic-The connection between money and influence.

It is a legitimate issue, but the the media seems to be all about how much the Clinton’s earn.

333 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 11:44:37am

re: #328 Great White Snark

And surprising that taking an unfairly aimed question to both sides would earn such scorn from some right here. Apparently it’s a bad minute to consider what is usually a legit topic-The connection between money and influence.

I can’t even parse this. Are you saying the question is unfair? Sure, I think it’s unfair (and kind of stupid) to suggest that the speaking fees for either a politician or their spouse is going to result in significant influence on the politician in office. That’s why nobody in the media is bringing it up about the Republican politicians, and nobody should be harping on it for the Clintons …except oh wait, that’s not what you’re saying.

334 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 11:44:50am

re: #330 Backwoods_Sleuth

Kyle Larson’s car went through the fence NASCAR’s Nationwide Series opener at Daytona in 2013; 14 racefans went to the hospital and another 14 were treated at the track.

Greg’s car hit a rut in the grass and went airborne. He smashed in to a concrete barrier which killed him.

Airborne cars are probably the biggest killer in racing.

335 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 11:45:43am

re: #328 Great White Snark

And surprising that taking an unfairly aimed question to both sides would earn such scorn from some right here. Apparently it’s a bad minute to consider what is usually a legit topic-The connection between money and influence.

Let’s say, for shits and giggles, that after months of denials, Prof. Warren decided to throw her hat into the ring. Would you expect her to be self-funded? Or to rely solely on public funding for her campaign? If not, then how in the hell would you expect her to run a campaign without taking money from powerful interests and thus raising the question of what influence they have over her?

336 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:51:06am

re: #333 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The question was unfairly aimed at the Clinton’s by a media critic. To me the right thing to do with the question is not take it out of the equation, but apply it to Jeb as well. The money is there, the right to earn it is there. if questions may follow about what the money does, so be it. Such questions just need to be fairly applied. At that point, welcome to the big leagues.

337 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 11:52:26am
338 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 11:54:32am

re: #336 Great White Snark

The question was unfairly aimed at the Clinton’s by a media critic. To me the right thing to do with the question is not take it out of the equation, but apply it to Jeb as well. The money is there, the right to earn it is there. if questions may follow about what the money does, so be it. Such questions just need to be fairly applied. At that point, welcome to the big leagues.

Which is why you said the comparison between the fees Clinton gets and the fees the Bushes get had limits because Jeb’s brother/father weren’t moving back into the WH while Bill was? See #310.

I can’t imagine why people didn’t immediately translate that to: we should be applying the question equally to both sides.

339 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 11:56:41am
340 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 11:59:48am

re: #335 Targetpractice

if Warren runs, she has no big Presidential family ties right? Next where she gets her money is a completely utterly legit question. As a matter of course right? We regularly question what impact these monies have on candidates. That’s common. From Congress on up. It’s the reason certain track the money web sites exist.

What is uncommon now is the likely first ever first gentleman, who is also a past two term president, with all that comes with him. What’s also uncommon is for a 3rd Bush to possibly become President. So the monies paid to Bill Clinton and GHWB, GWB et al get the same question.

Why is that difference unworthy of note, and why is this money and influence question to be muted in the instance of the Clinton candidacy? This is supposed to be a legit thing to look at for any candidate for any office. Except today. Because Greenwald. I just don’t see it like that.

341 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 12:00:52pm
342 blueraven  May 17, 2015 12:03:05pm

re: #340 Great White Snark

if Warren runs, she has no big Presidential family ties right? Nest where she gets her money is a completely utterly legit question. As a matter of course right? We regularly question what impact these monies have on candidates. That’s common. From Congress on up. It’s the reason certain track the money web sites exist.

What is uncommon now is the likely first ever first gentleman, who is also a past two term president, with all that comes with him. What’s also uncommon is for a 3rd Bush to possibly become President. So the monies paid to Bill Clinton and GHWB, GWB et al get the same question.

Why is that difference unworthy of note, and why is this money and influence question to be muted in the instance of the Clinton candidacy? This is supposed to be a legit thing to look at for any candidate for any office. Except today. Because Greenwald. I just don’t see it like that.

Money and influence are the same for all candidates. I don’t see any difference between Clinton/Bush and all the other candidates in that respect.

343 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 12:03:05pm
344 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 12:08:43pm
345 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 12:10:53pm

re: #340 Great White Snark

if Warren runs, she has no big Presidential family ties right? Next where she gets her money is a completely utterly legit question. As a matter of course right? We regularly question what impact these monies have on candidates. That’s common. From Congress on up. It’s the reason certain track the money web sites exist.

What is uncommon now is the likely first ever first gentleman, who is also a past two term president, with all that comes with him. What’s also uncommon is for a 3rd Bush to possibly become President. So the monies paid to Bill Clinton and GHWB, GWB et al get the same question.

Why is that difference unworthy of note, and why is this money and influence question to be muted in the instance of the Clinton candidacy? This is supposed to be a legit thing to look at for any candidate for any office. Except today. Because Greenwald. I just don’t see it like that.

It’s not because of Greenwald, it’s because the press is totally focused on the Clintons and treating speaking fees and donations to the Clinton Foundation as if they are on the same level as Adelson or the Kochs shoveling billions both directly and indirectly into the GOP races. It’s an effort, because there are no prominent Dem donors that can be accused of influencing Hillary, to portray her as being bankrolled “under the table” or even suggest that foreign governments are looking to influence US policy by donating to the Foundation.

It’s bullshit and the only reason you seem to be entertaining it is because of your aversion to a “dynasty.”

346 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:18:17pm

re: #345 Targetpractice

What I did was level the playing field on that one specific question instead of dismissing it out of hand. But this link is well worth viewing in light of your point-“because there are no prominent Dem donors that can be accused of influencing Hillary”

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in 1999-2014

347 Charles Johnson  May 17, 2015 12:19:18pm

People get paid high speaking fees because they sell out events, and because people want to see them speak. The idea that anyone expects a quid pro quo for speaker fees is absurd. It’s market-driven, like fees for anything else. People in high demand get highly paid.

There’s no comparison to donations made to a political campaign.

348 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 12:21:20pm

re: #346 Great White Snark

What I did was level the playing field on that one specific question instead of dismissing it out of hand. But this link is well worth viewing in light of your point-“because there are no prominent Dem donors that can be accused of influencing Hillary”

It is not about leveling the playing field and you know it. To wingnuts, it’s about looking for a way to say the Clintons are crooked. And for you, it’s about finding yet another excuse to oppose her candidacy because you don’t want a dynasty, but at the same time wanting someone who appeals to “independents.”

349 Iwouldprefernotto  May 17, 2015 12:26:57pm

re: #347 Charles Johnson

People get paid high speaking fees because they sell out events, and because people want to see them speak. The idea that anyone expects a quid pro quo for speaker fees is absurd. It’s market-driven, like fees for anything else. People in high demand get highly paid.

There’s no comparison to donations made to a political campaign.

So your argument is that people don’t want to pay good money to hear Ted Cruz babble? No wonder Republicans hate the free market?

350 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 12:31:51pm
351 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:34:10pm

re: #348 Targetpractice

And for you, it’s about finding yet another excuse to oppose her candidacy because you don’t want a dynasty, but at the same time wanting someone who appeals to “independents.”

Think what you will but no. Just no. You are selectively ignoring the same point brought to the Bush family by me. And someone who is less dependent on those most influential donations is exactly what we need. Dynasty? What kind of Dynasty spends so much time out of power? Not a very strong one obviously.

I don’t share the enthusiasm for Hilary Clinton. Genghis Khan could be the GOP leader and that would not make me a Hilary fan. it just would make me dislike the GOP all the more. And this crop is bad enough already.

352 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 12:37:41pm

re: #351 Great White Snark

Think what you will but no. Just no. You are selectively ignoring the same point brought to the Bush family by me. And someone who is less dependent on those most influential donations is exactly what we need. Dynasty? What kind of Dynasty spends so much time out of power? Not a very strong one obviously.

I don’t share the enthusiasm for Hilary Clinton. Genghis Khan could be the GOP leader and that would not make me a Hilary fan. it just would make me dislike the GOP all the more. And this crop is bad enough already.

You’ve got that exactly backwards. A little known or less prominent Democrat is going to be even more dependent on donations from major contributors to fight on the same level as a Walker, a Paul, or a Rubio. They’re going to have to go to major donors and make those sort of backroom promises that I’m sure you’re worried about in order to secure the funding they need to run a multi-state campaign. And if you honestly believe the opposite, that they will be less beholden to big interests, then I’ve got some beachfront property in Nevada to sell you.

353 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 12:38:18pm

re: #347 Charles Johnson

People get paid high speaking fees because they sell out events, and because people want to see them speak. The idea that anyone expects a quid pro quo for speaker fees is absurd. It’s market-driven, like fees for anything else. People in high demand get highly paid.

There’s no comparison to donations made to a political campaign.

I really missed the part where speaking fees became campaign donations, apparently. If someone has some indication that this has actually happened, let me know and I’ll consider working up some interest in this.

354 blueraven  May 17, 2015 12:45:08pm

re: #346 Great White Snark

What I did was level the playing field on that one specific question instead of dismissing it out of hand. But this link is well worth viewing in light of your point-“because there are no prominent Dem donors that can be accused of influencing Hillary”

I bet you will see similar amounts for any prominent R presidential candidate over the years, if you are referring to the big financial institutions. They tend to hedge their bets.

For instance: Mitt Romney 2012 top contributors

opensecrets.org

Goldman Sachs $1,045,454
Bank of America $1,017,652
Morgan Stanley $920,805
JPMorgan Chase & Co $835,596
Wells Fargo $693,576
Credit Suisse Group $645,620
Deloitte LLP $615,874
Kirkland & Ellis $523,041
Citigroup Inc $491,249
UBS AG $464,760
PricewaterhouseCoopers $456,900
Barclays $446,000
Ernst & Young $390,992
HIG Capital $382,904
Blackstone Group $378,025
General Electric $343,875
EMC Corp $320,679
Elliott Management $315,925
Bain Capital $288,470
Rothman Institute $259,500

355 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 12:46:52pm

re: #329 b_sharp

Greg Moore.

Either Tagliani or Carpentier had the car fly over a fence during one race years ago.

Carpentier. Big difference though b_sharp, it was at a road course and the fences are not as high as at Indy. What he did was backed into the wall, and the momentum shot him up and over the fence. And it was rather gentle. He got out and walked away actually joking about it.

At most road courses there are a couple of fences too with a large gap in between. At Indy and most ovals there is one fence and the crowd.

Again, I can’t stress enough, these cars lift and then keep lifting if they get into the air the right (wrong) way. I also said cars do get into each others wheels and get lifted. My point is if you really watch the Indycar issues, they car goes up and instead of coming back down, they can actually be seen to catch air and sail or lift even more.

Greg Moore sadly came off the track at Fontana California and got into a big rut in the grass which pitched his car right into a concrete K-rail which he hit his head on. There really was no air lift involved. That was a very sad incident and led to many of the big ovals to make sure the grass areas are real smooth, or they paved them to make them smooth.

Also, both Moore and Carpentier happened many years ago. Lots of stuff has been learned in the time since.

Indy (as shown with the Andretti YouTube I posted) has had an issue since 2003. They have not learned anything. Want me to dig up some more YuoTubes? I don’t want to bore the LGF members.

I know racing is never completely safe. That is not and never been my point.

By the way…I see you know you Canuckian Drivers! You obviously followed CART some. Greg Moore is still extremely loved by old CART fans and all Canadian race fans.

356 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:48:13pm

re: #354 blueraven

Which means undue influence cuts across party lines. About the efforts to reign in the financial institutions… Not really going so well. Big part of our current problems, partly explains why the recovery remains rather top heavy 1%er ish.

357 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 12:51:07pm

re: #356 Great White Snark

Which means undue influence cuts across party lines. About the efforts to reign in the financial institutions… Not really going so well. Big part of our current problems, partly explains why the recovery remains rather top heavy 1%er ish.

And it’s not going to be solved by ideals and principles. It’s going to be solved by putting people in office who want that to change. And yes, that means accepting Hillary as the Dem candidate if it ensures we don’t have a Republican in the White House with at least one open spot on the SCOTUS bench to fill between now and 2020.

358 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:51:49pm

re: #347 Charles Johnson

re: #353 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Is it really the same equation for fees during a Presidential campaign as before? Maybe so maybe not.

359 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 12:53:29pm

re: #334 b_sharp

Greg’s car hit a rut in the grass and went airborne. He smashed in to a concrete barrier which killed him.

Airborne cars are probably the biggest killer in racing.

Just saw this after my last post. He did not really get what would be considered airborne. He rolled and tumbled very violently due to coming off the track at probably 200+ MPH.

Do you know that the day before the race he had a scooter accident in the pits and smashed his hand pretty good against the handle bar and a hard object (can’t remember what it was). He was cleared by the series docs to race. There has been a lot of conjecture he should not have been cleared as maybe his hand was in no shape to make a very quick reaction to another crash in front of him and that caused him to lose the car.

It really matters none now sadly. All we can do is continue to learn. Problem is, there is no longer a CART series that was great at learning and applying what they learned.

Edit to add: Yeah airborne can be bad, but it is amazing how strong the tubs are in the cars. The other big killer was basal skull fractures from sudden stops. Thankfully the invention of the HANS (Head and Neck Support) has done a huge service to cutting that danger. CART was the first series to implement that into the safety rules. It took NASCAR killing its biggest start Dale Earnhardt to finally make them all wear them. I could tell you stories of NASCAR’s bad safety policies.

360 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 12:55:15pm

re: #355 ObserverArt

Carpentier. Big difference though b_sharp, it was at a road course and the fences are not as high as at Indy. What he did was backed into the wall, and the momentum shot him up and over the fence. And it was rather gentle. He got out and walked away actually joking about it.

At most road courses there are a couple of fences too with a large gap in between. At Indy and most ovals there is one fence and the crowd.

Again, I can’t stress enough, these cars lift and then keep lifting if they get into the air the right (wrong) way. I also said cars do get into each others wheels and get lifted. My point is if you really watch the Indycar issues, they car goes up and instead of coming back down, they can actually be seen to catch air and sail or lift even more.

Greg Moore sadly came off the track at Fontana California and got into a big rut in the grass which pitched his car right into a concrete K-rail which he hit his head on. There really was no air lift involved. That was a very sad incident and led to many of the big ovals to make sure the grass areas are real smooth, or they paved them to make them smooth.

Also, both Moore and Carpentier happened many years ago. Lots of stuff has been learned in the time since.

Indy (as shown with the Andretti YouTube I posted) has had an issue since 2003. They have not learned anything. Want me to dig up some more YuoTubes? I don’t want to bore the LGF members.

I know racing is never completely safe. That is not and never been my point.

By the way…I see you know you Canuckian Drivers! You obviously followed CART some. Greg Moore is still extremely loved by old CART fans and all Canadian race fans.

We used to follow CART religiously. We watched the race that killed Moore live and watched his car catch air as soon as it hit the rut. I knew it was either Moore or Carpentier by the team colours and knew the driver had no chance. It was only a few minutes later that we saw it was Greg.

I wasn’t arguing against you, I was giving additional examples of how catching air kills. The year Greg was killed they reduced the size of the rear wing in order to slow the cars down, but all it did was increase the chances of losing rear traction.

Even before that race I was complaining that reducing down force was a stupid idea. They should have either reduced the turbo boost to drop HP or increased down force, or even rear drag to slow the cars.

361 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 12:56:55pm

re: #358 Great White Snark

Is it really the same equation for fees during a Presidential campaign as before? Maybe so maybe not.

Clearly they should accept no money as a salary of any form during a Presidential campaign, because that would be a conflict of interest. They might be making a quid-pro-quo arrangement with their current employer!

I’m sure this will help the non-independently wealthy consider running for office some more. A great innovation!

362 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:57:06pm

re: #355 ObserverArt

Had you noticed what NASCAR did with the roof flaps to keep them from flying so high? I shudder to think what an F1 car might do on a big oval or at Talladega. I was watching indy time trials today, and I gotta say the big butt look is not pretty or elegant. Love to see that changed so they stay on the ground.

363 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 12:58:07pm

re: #361 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Clearly they should accept no money as a salary of any form during a Presidential campaign, because that would be a conflict of interest. They might be making a quid-pro-quo arrangement with their current employer!

I’m sure this will help the non-independently wealthy consider running for office some more. A great innovation!

Okay now you are just putting words in my mouth.

364 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 12:58:27pm

re: #355 ObserverArt

Carpentier. Big difference though b_sharp, it was at a road course and the fences are not as high as at Indy. What he did was backed into the wall, and the momentum shot him up and over the fence. And it was rather gentle. He got out and walked away actually joking about it.

At most road courses there are a couple of fences too with a large gap in between. At Indy and most ovals there is one fence and the crowd.

Again, I can’t stress enough, these cars lift and then keep lifting if they get into the air the right (wrong) way. I also said cars do get into each others wheels and get lifted. My point is if you really watch the Indycar issues, they car goes up and instead of coming back down, they can actually be seen to catch air and sail or lift even more.

Greg Moore sadly came off the track at Fontana California and got into a big rut in the grass which pitched his car right into a concrete K-rail which he hit his head on. There really was no air lift involved. That was a very sad incident and led to many of the big ovals to make sure the grass areas are real smooth, or they paved them to make them smooth.

Also, both Moore and Carpentier happened many years ago. Lots of stuff has been learned in the time since.

Indy (as shown with the Andretti YouTube I posted) has had an issue since 2003. They have not learned anything. Want me to dig up some more YuoTubes? I don’t want to bore the LGF members.

I know racing is never completely safe. That is not and never been my point.

By the way…I see you know you Canuckian Drivers! You obviously followed CART some. Greg Moore is still extremely loved by old CART fans and all Canadian race fans.

Watch the Moore accident again and you’ll see the front lifted when the tire hit the rut and then the car twisted and rolled before slamming into the barrier (barriers Greg recommended by the way. His input put the concrete and grass infield on that track)

Had Greg’s car not lifted it would have stayed on the grass and slid.

365 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 12:58:40pm

re: #363 Great White Snark

Okay now you are just putting words in my mouth.

I’m carrying your statement through to the logical conclusion.

366 blueraven  May 17, 2015 12:59:55pm

re: #356 Great White Snark

Which means undue influence cuts across party lines. About the efforts to reign in the financial institutions… Not really going so well. Big part of our current problems, partly explains why the recovery remains rather top heavy 1%er ish.

Yes, financial institutions donate to both parties, so for you to single out Clinton for that is disingenuous. Where are the Addleson/Koch brother types?

367 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:00:58pm

re: #365 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Sure is a long ways from my conclusion, where it’s about disclosure and discussion and debate about what the monies we are talking about might mean.

368 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 1:01:25pm

re: #360 b_sharp

We used to follow CART religiously. We watched the race that killed Moore live and watched his car catch air as soon as it hit the rut. I knew it was either Moore or Carpentier by the team colours and knew the driver had no chance. It was only a few minutes later that we saw it was Greg.

I wasn’t arguing against you, I was giving additional examples of how catching air kills. The year Greg was killed they reduced the size of the rear wing in order to slow the cars down, but all it did was increase the chances of losing rear traction.

Even before that race I was complaining that reducing down force was a stupid idea. They should have either reduced the turbo boost to drop HP or increased down force, or even rear drag to slow the cars.

Believe me, I now you weren’t arguing. I figured so. I was just clarifying. I bet Greg’s car was no more than a few feet off the ground the whole time.

By the way, I added to my previous quote above about the most dangerous aspects of racing.

As I said, and I think it is pretty evident by now, I am a very passionate auto racing fan. I loved my time in the sport. I knew of Greg when he first started as he was in Indy lights and was beaten to that title by a team I worked for. Everyone knew he was going to be damn good.

Edit for overlap. I can’t watch the Greg Moore accident, It is too sad. I can replay it in my head.

369 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:01:31pm

re: #366 blueraven

I was responding to a very specific assertion though right?

370 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 1:01:50pm

re: #362 Great White Snark

Had you noticed what NASCAR did with the roof flaps to keep them from flying so high? I shudder to think what an F1 car might do on a big oval or at Talladega. I was watching indy time trials today, and I gotta say the big butt look is not pretty or elegant. Love to see that changed so they stay on the ground.

They are continually trying to slow the Indy/CART/Champ cars down by reducing engine size, turbo boost, tire grip, down force but the designers just keep making the cars fast. Part of that speed is in aerodynamics & this latest chassis is just fucked up.

371 Targetpractice  May 17, 2015 1:02:17pm

Is there any actual evidence that either Bill’s speaking fees or donations to the Clinton Foundation have influenced Hillary’s actions? Not the coincidental bullshit that peppered Clinton Cash or wingnut conspiracy theories, actual evidence of quid pro quo.

372 blueraven  May 17, 2015 1:03:58pm

re: #369 Great White Snark

I was responding to a very specific assertion though right?

You responded to a non-assertion. TP was clearly talking about singular powerful individuals.

373 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 17, 2015 1:04:35pm

re: #367 Great White Snark

Sure is a long ways from my conclusion, where it’s about disclosure and discussion and debate about what the monies we are talking about might mean.

…I don’t know how you got that from the comment Charles made and I made, but ok.

All Charles pointed out is that speaking fees are a business arrangement, typically one treated at least in part as salary. (Mitt Romney had a few of those on his tax return, as I recall.) I agreed that they are not political donations. You are the one saying that this might somehow be different if the person in question is running for President or married to someone running for President (since you said above the that the ones for the previously-President Bushes aren’t relevant to Jeb since they wouldn’t be moving back into the WH with him).

374 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 1:05:06pm

re: #362 Great White Snark

Had you noticed what NASCAR did with the roof flaps to keep them from flying so high? I shudder to think what an F1 car might do on a big oval or at Talladega. I was watching indy time trials today, and I gotta say the big butt look is not pretty or elegant. Love to see that changed so they stay on the ground.

Think of a hammer (pendulum) . When physics takes over the heavy end swaps and then leads due to the weight. Now you have a car designed to only attack the air from the front going the wrong way. Not good.

375 b.d.  May 17, 2015 1:06:42pm

Some donors to the Clinton Foundation:

$1,000,000-$5,000,000

Carlos Slim
Chairman & CEO of Telmex, largest New York Times shareholder

James Murdoch
Chief Operating Officer of 21st Century Fox

Newsmax Media
Florida-based conservative media network

politico.com

$500,000-$1,000,000

Google

News Corporation Foundation
Philanthropic arm of former Fox News parent company

etc…….

Booga booga!

376 b_sharp  May 17, 2015 1:07:16pm

re: #368 ObserverArt

Believe me, I now you weren’t arguing. I figured so. I was just clarifying. I bet Greg’s car was no more than a few feet off the ground the whole time.

By the way, I added to my previous quote above about the most dangerous aspects of racing.

As I said, and I think it is pretty evident by now, I am a very passionate auto racing fan. I loved my time in the sport. I knew of Greg when he first started as he was in Indy lights and was beaten to that title by a team I worked for. Everyone knew he was going to be damn good.

We used to be quite passionate too, but several years ago lost interest and have just sort of returned to it late last year.

377 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  May 17, 2015 1:07:44pm

IndyCar Responds To Flips By Mandating Race Aero For Qualifying

Three incidents with three different Chevrolet IndyCars forced the series to put a stop to teams removing or swapping aerodynamic pieces to get a good, low-drag package for qualifying. They mandated that teams qualify in full-race trim and lowered the boost cars can run to slow down the cars in qualifying.

While all three cars have been running the Chevrolet aero kits, they’re slowing everyone down in response to the accidents that happened in this week’s practice sessions. With the aero kits being configurable in so many ways, teams have been experimenting with different pieces and running the lowest-drag configurations they can possibly handle.

Because qualifying is based on timed lap times instead of the driver’s ability to battle to the front, speed gets a higher priority than it does in the race. Less downforce keeping a car to the ground often translates into more straight-line speed, which is good for qualifying, but by its very nature means that the car is on the ragged edge of what the driver can control. That’s where the speed is, after all.

378 wrenchwench  May 17, 2015 1:08:48pm

Erasure.

379 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:10:56pm

re: #372 blueraven

No, I quoted the specific assertion about Hilary’s donors with a link to them. I took the fact the GOP takes massive monies and is influenced as a long term given. Too obvious to bother with.

380 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 1:11:09pm

re: #347 Charles Johnson

People get paid high speaking fees because they sell out events, and because people want to see them speak. The idea that anyone expects a quid pro quo for speaker fees is absurd. It’s market-driven, like fees for anything else. People in high demand get highly paid.

There’s no comparison to donations made to a political campaign.

No different than auto racers in Formula One, big movie stars or musical acts, etc.

It is that old “what the market will bear” thing.

Great White Snark, it is pretty evident you do not Hillary. Try to read some of your argument with a fresh eye.

381 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 1:11:46pm

re: #371 Targetpractice

Is there any actual evidence that either Bill’s speaking fees or donations to the Clinton Foundation have influenced Hillary’s actions? Not the coincidental bullshit that peppered Clinton Cash or wingnut conspiracy theories, actual evidence of quid pro quo.

Yes. Benghazi was the evidence.

382 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 1:13:19pm

If Mitt Romney was pulling down Clinton numbers to speak it would be news, somehow virtuous and justification of how awesome His Mittness was.

383 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:13:24pm

re: #380 ObserverArt

No different than auto racers in Formula One, big movie stars or musical acts, etc.

It is that old “what the market will bear” thing.

Great White Snark, it is pretty evident you do not Hillary. Try to read some of your argument with a fresh eye.

There is no candidate I like. Leaves me in a difficult place to vote from but an easy (or should be) place to discuss Hilary or anyone else. And why I drew the question to include the Bush family. It would seem to not apply to any other candidates from either party.

384 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 1:18:06pm

re: #324 Great White Snark

Calling me a troll? -1

If that’s where this is going for my sin of being less impressed with the candidate you obviously care for deeply, I can spare us both the aggravation. OTOH we could have a conversation less loaded with insults and harsh assumptions.

Make it -2. You’re no troll.

385 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 1:18:57pm

re: #377 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

IndyCar Responds To Flips By Mandating Race Aero For Qualifying

I read an Indycar fan forum trackforum.com. Their members are real steamed about all of this. And they have a right to be. They were promised a lot this year and IMS/Indycar failed them. I really do not follow the sport other than my hope some day some racers and not a track-owning family get things back in control. But one thing is for sure, they can’t afford to lose many more fans.

And the Indy 500 is an event. Many people watch it like they watch the Super Bowl, It is ( was) what everyone does (did) on Memorial day, but they still have reduced the crowds, removed stands and lost TV viewership. Sadly. Also, a lot of free tickets to keep up appearances.

Remember when pole day used to bring out 100,00+ people. No more. 10,000 at best. I would say that is an indication that the real fans no longer follow. I used to go to pole day because it was so hard to get tickets as they sold out a week after the race for the next year. I bet you can buy tickets right now for next week.

You could say I still follow Indycar politics! Go figure.

386 blueraven  May 17, 2015 1:18:59pm

re: #379 Great White Snark

No, I quoted the specific assertion about Hilary’s donors with a link to them. I took the fact the GOP takes massive monies and is influenced as a long term given. Too obvious to bother with.

OK fine, I guess you didnt get his point. He wasn’t talking about PAC money from finance/big business etc… At least they all have some legitimate, arguable points about what is good for the country: taxes, regulation…

People like Addleson or Koch brothers? They can give unlimited amounts which can affect an election based on their personal ideology. If you cant see the difference, I cant argue with that.

387 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:21:20pm

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Thank you Dark. Angry moments happen, writing that one off as such moving forward.

388 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 1:23:08pm

Who’d have thought, at a joint called “Twin Peaks”, this would happen? Ever?

389 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 1:25:14pm

re: #388 Justanotherhuman

I think he meant biker “gangs”, but cops said only 2. No doubt Grant knows better?

390 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 1:27:28pm

Is Lindsey G going to join the Klown Kar?

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., in email to supporters says he will be making ‘an important announcement regarding his 2016 plans’ tomorrow morning - @NBCNews
end of alert

391 sagehen  May 17, 2015 1:29:52pm

re: #390 Justanotherhuman

Is Lindsey G going to join the Klown Kar?

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., in email to supporters says he will be making ‘an important announcement regarding his 2016 plans’ tomorrow morning - @NBCNews
end of alert

More likely, he’s decided who he wants to endorse.

392 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 1:30:35pm

re: #381 BigPapa

Yes. Benghazi was the evidence.

Funny. I haven’t posted this yet, but since you mentioned Benghazi I think its time:

The Real Story of Benghazi
A CIA insider’s account of what happened on 9/11/12

By MICHAEL MORELL

May 11, 2015

It was at approximately five fifteen a.m. that the third, final, and most sophisticated attack of the night occurred. My subsequent analysis is that after the extremists were driven from the CIA Annex the first time, they regrouped, acquiring even heavier weapons and most likely additional fighters. Most important, they returned with mortars. Five mortar rounds were fired and three made direct hits on the roof of the main building, killing Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods and seriously injuring others.

Long after the attack, I asked myself, “Why did the attackers use only five mortar rounds?” They had time and space to fire additional rounds as they had driven our security officers from their positions.

The logical answer to me is clear—they had only five mortars. If this had been an assault with days, weeks, or months of planning, the terrorists would have been much better armed and they would have brought those weapons to the first assault at the TMF as well as the first assault on the CIA base. And they would have had more than just five mortar rounds for the second assault on the Annex. Libya, after all, is a country awash in weapons, including mortars. Instead all three were opportunistic attacks that escalated in sophistication during the night as the extremists had more time to organize.

As awful as it was, the events of the evening could have been much worse without the incredible heroism of a handful of CIA officers and military personnel. Had CIA officers not responded to the TMF, there undoubtedly would have been more fatalities there. During the fight at the CIA base, the actions of two Special Forces officers stood out. In Tripoli, when the first attacks began, they responded as you would expect our country’s most elite soldiers to respond. They volunteered to go to Benghazi and stand shoulder to shoulder with our officers in a firefight with terrorists. While they were not technically in the chain of command, their training and experience, their excellent judgment, and their calm demeanor under fire effectively resulted in their taking charge at the Annex. Everyone looked to them for leadership, and they provided it. And they were the ones who recovered the dead and wounded officers from the rooftop immediately after the mortar attack.

One of our injured officers on the roof where Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods were killed was nearly unconscious and unable to move. Fearing that the mortar fire could resume at any moment, the two Special Forces operatives improvised a maneuver in which one of them strapped the six-foot-three, 240-pound man to the other’s back. In a supreme test of strength, focus, and determination, the soldier bearing our wounded officer scaled a wall at the edge of the roof and then worked his way down a rickety ladder—all under the constant threat of enemy fire. Both Special Forces officers received awards for their bravery and heroic actions in response to the tragedy in Benghazi.

Note: TMF = Temporary Mission Facility. That was the building Ambassador Stevens was working of. Though it has been called an embassy or consulate, it was neither of those two things.

393 ObserverArt  May 17, 2015 1:31:09pm

re: #383 Great White Snark

There is no candidate I like. Leaves me in a difficult place to vote from but an easy (or should be) place to discuss Hilary or anyone else. And why I drew the question to include the Bush family. It would seem to not apply to any other candidates from either party.

Include me as thinking you aren’t a troll.

By the way, I sure hope you are not saying the other candidates are not getting or have not gotten any speaking fees. That would be incredibly naive. Sure, they might not bring down the same fees, but I bet they all do very well.

It is just the way the stupid system works. I don’t like it, but I sure don’t see how it will change.

And like others, the real problem is still the corporate money that many times is hidden by passing it all around and not being identifiable. A good start would be running Citizens United and the stupid “Corporations are People” thinking through a wood chipper.

Time to back out again. I have some other things to do that I had started earlier. Later.

394 teleskiguy  May 17, 2015 1:34:46pm

O_o

395 Eclectic Cyborg  May 17, 2015 1:36:08pm

re: #394 teleskiguy

Now that is a beautiful beard.

396 Great White Snark  May 17, 2015 1:38:42pm

re: #393 ObserverArt

Thanks. I’m a little surprised to see the accusation get some +1 but that’s how the cookie crumbles sometimes. I realize they get their fees as well. Some far less as per their lack of notoriety. Some more than one can really understand.
I read somewhere the Clinton Foundation stopped taking foreign donations while she was SecState. Kudos to them for that. It’s some kind of weird system where the candidates have to disclose so much, and yet so much goes awry, as per historic issues like big finance / bank monies spread around and how the financial organizations have run amok. So much goes wrong despite all the disclosures.

397 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 1:40:06pm

I tell everyone what it’s like to have not a single reasonable choice on the ballot: the Republican primary election for Kentucky governor.
Lunatics.
Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

This may be the first time since 1970 that I will not bother voting.

398 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 1:44:39pm

re: #396 Great White Snark

Thanks. I’m a little surprised to see the accusation get some +1 but that’s how the cookie crumbles sometimes. I realize they get their fees as well. Some far less as per their lack of notoriety. Some more than one can really understand.
I read somewhere the Clinton Foundation stopped taking foreign donations while she was SecState. Kudos to them for that. It’s some kind of weird system where the candidates have to disclose so much, and yet so much goes awry, as per historic issues like big finance / bank monies spread around and how the financial organizations have run amok. So much goes wrong despite all the disclosures.

Thing is, Bill Clinton was still taking foreign money for speeches, as was shown by theNew York Times. Moreover, since the foundation is having to refile a number years of records regarding the taking of foreign donations, I’m convinced Hillary Clinton is far from innocent in these matters. That is not, however, to say that she committed a crime, as there is not currently any evidence of that.

399 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 1:46:35pm

Heh.
It’s the Clinton money that matters.
Not all the dark money on the GOP side.
No, that’s ok and not worth talking about because HILLARY.

400 Eclectic Cyborg  May 17, 2015 1:46:43pm

re: #397 Backwoods_Sleuth

I tell everyone what it’s like to have not a single reasonable choice on the ballot: the Republican primary election for Kentucky governor.
Lunatics.
Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

This may be the first time since 1970 that I will not bother voting.

That’s the way I feel looking at the GOP Presidential contenders. They’re like some kind of stepford husbands. Nothing but wingnut white noise. Useless.

401 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 1:47:06pm

Waiting for RW comments on this “Waco” incident.

402 BigPapa  May 17, 2015 1:47:37pm

This whole Clinton deal: isn’t it apparent money and politics is a huge mess?

The right doesn’t seem like it’s concerned about it, or that there is even a problem, unless a Democrat is involved. Then you get the stupid childish logic that is ‘they’re for poor people but they’re rich, see? LOL!’

We’re in deep.

403 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 1:48:54pm

And this desire to tie the Foundation to her campaign is just silly.

404 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 1:55:11pm

re: #388 Justanotherhuman

Who’d have thought, at a joint called “Twin Peaks”, this would happen? Ever?

[Embedded content]

Actually, its a franchised restaurant. They opened a location in Wheeling, IL last year. Thing is “Twin Peaks” is a reference to …

405 Justanotherhuman  May 17, 2015 1:56:40pm

re: #404 Dark_Falcon

It was a strip joint in Charlotte, out far enough to be near the racetrack and UNC and a real dump from the outside.

406 teleskiguy  May 17, 2015 2:03:33pm

Dude, that shootout in Waco is straight out of Sons of Anarchy.

Multiple weapons were involved in the melee, including chains, knives, bats, clubs, and firearms.

407 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 2:04:17pm

re: #405 Justanotherhuman

It was a strip joint in Charlotte, out far enough to be near the racetrack and UNC and a real dump from the outside.

It’s the witness hiding in a freezer that makes things clear. Strip clubs don’t need that kind of refrigerated space. But a place that serves burgers and ribs in large quantities does need such an installation. So this was a ‘breastaurant’, not a strip club.

408 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 2:04:46pm

re: #406 teleskiguy

Dude, that shootout in Waco is straight out of Sons of Anarchy.

So a good old fashioned gang war.

409 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 2:08:20pm

re: #408 Varek Raith

So a good old fashioned gang war.

Time for a few well crafted Tweets, wouldn’t you say? The idea of white Texans having a gang war ought to be for a few exploding heads.

410 Varek Raith  May 17, 2015 2:12:06pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

Time for a few well crafted Tweets, wouldn’t you say? The idea of white Texans having a gang war ought to be for a few exploding heads.

I can’t recall the last time a biker war happened.

411 Dark_Falcon  May 17, 2015 2:15:41pm

re: #410 Varek Raith

I can’t recall the last time a biker war happened.

Me neither. I’ve read stories of stuff like this happening in the 1970’s and 80’s, but not recently.

412 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 17, 2015 2:17:09pm

re: #410 Varek Raith

I can’t recall the last time a biker war happened.

Oh, they still happen a lot, but the death toll usually isn’t this high.


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