American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer on the TPP: “A Major Tool to Export Sexual Deviancy to the World”

Fear of a gay planet
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You’ve probably heard that the House of Representatives (led by Democrats this time) rejected President Obama’s Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal today.

I think it’s a big mistake for the Democratic Party, but that’s not what this article is about. This time I’d like to draw your attention to someone else who’s celebrating the rejection of the TPP, but for reasons that aren’t even remotely sane.

American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer (yes, him again) is ecstatic to see the TPP fail, because he sees it as “a major tool to export sexual deviancy to the world.”

So on this issue at least, the Democratic Party is unfortunately aligned with the most reactionary forces in US politics.

“This bill is not about fast-tracking trade,” Fischer said. “This bill is about fast-tracking sin. So the bottom line is if somebody loves sexual deviancy, they are going to love Obamatrade … We ought to be critical of any Congressman who voted for this thing, it’s a morally dangerous bill.”

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530 comments
1 freetoken  Jun 12, 2015 5:37:29pm

I thought Fischer left the AFA?

2 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 12, 2015 5:37:32pm
So on this issue at least, the Democratic Party is aligned with the most reactionary forces in US politics.

Not the president. He’s aligned with the GOP leadership.

3 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 5:38:02pm
Get the hook!
4 Great White Snark  Jun 12, 2015 5:43:07pm

re: #2 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Not the president. He’s aligned with the GOP leadership.

Recently we have seen a lot of this strange bedfellows & unexpected enemies kinda thing. We had Rand Paul on the side of the ACLU and many Democrats on the Patriot Act. We got Elizabeth Warren attacking the administration on trade. We have the GOP backing the admin on this one. We got Drudge speaking kindly of Nancy Pelosi. And let’s not even get started on the middle east by this measure!!

Strange days folks. Feels like I slipped into an episode of Sliders.

5 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 5:43:24pm

Derp.

Despite pushback, legislator expects teacher license proposal to stick

A lawmaker behind a proposal to allow people to teach “non-core” subjects in Wisconsin secondary schools without a bachelor’s degree, and core subjects like English with no teacher training, said she believes the proposal will stick in the state budget bill despite pushback the idea has attracted.

But Rep. Mary Czaja (R-Irma) said she intends to modify her proposal to require anyone hired without a bachelor’s degree to have at least a high school diploma, and that any teachers hired through her new pathway could only work part-time, with no benefits.

6 Great White Snark  Jun 12, 2015 5:46:02pm

BTW had Fischer even seen where a lot of our sex toys come from? Made In China. LOLOLOL Someone show him the sticker on the package and ask who is exporting what exactly?

7 Charles Johnson  Jun 12, 2015 5:46:36pm

Just posted an ultimatum for our Iranian propagandists.

littlegreenfootballs.com

8 b.d.  Jun 12, 2015 5:48:24pm

The TPP has been the perfect vehicle for one to attach their own fears to.

9 Charles Johnson  Jun 12, 2015 5:49:00pm

The Democratic Party is playing right into the GOP’s hands on this issue. This is exactly what the GOP wanted to happen.

10 Justanotherhuman  Jun 12, 2015 5:50:10pm

re: #5 Amory Blaine

So, WI is going back to ignorance?

11 makeitstop  Jun 12, 2015 5:51:38pm

re: #4 Great White Snark

Strange days folks. Feels like I slipped into an episode of Sliders.

That was a very cool series. I used to love that one and Quantum Leap.

12 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 5:53:36pm

re: #8 b.d.

The TPP has been the perfect vehicle for one to attach their own fears to.

On the other hand, trade deals have such a wonderful track record. That plus the negative implications of some of the leaked material would seem to justify significant skepticism.

13 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 5:53:44pm

ISO containers full of Gay are stacking up at the West Coast ports.

14 freetoken  Jun 12, 2015 5:54:29pm

Speaking of disingenuous (my word for the day from downstairs), this TPP thing is making for some clearly manipulative headlines.

Example, this WaPo headline: House Democrats rebuff Obama on trade, delivering major defeat

Clearly this is a failure of the Democratic party then, no?

[…] Afterward, GOP leaders said the battle was not over, but they made clear the onus was on Obama to sway his fellow Democrats.

“The president has some work yet to do with his party to complete this process,” said Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. “This isn’t over yet.”

It seems to me that the WaPo is just using GOP propaganda to write headlines.

The GOP has a majority in the House. A significant majority.

If most of the Republicans had wanted the TPP then these votes would have gone in favor of the TPP.

The key roll call came on a measure to grant financial aid to displaced workers, with 144 Democrats linking arms with 158 Republicans in a rout that left the overall package of trade bills stalled.

In that roll call a majority of Republicans joined a majority of Democrats.

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Populism always plays against these trade pacts. I’m not sure the current divisions of constituents between parties divides very much to any one side in these kind of things.

Bottom line is that labor organizations fear unlimited trade because American workers’ wages will be compared to someone else across the ocean and will then force down wages here.

15 Great White Snark  Jun 12, 2015 5:54:37pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The Democratic Party is playing right into the GOP’s hands on this issue. This is exactly what the GOP wanted to happen.

Whats your take if any on the agreement? I’m thinking we need it strategically. but of course many details not yet in evidence.

16 gocart mozart  Jun 12, 2015 5:54:47pm

What is Fischer’s theory: does TPP reduce tariff’s on gay marriage exports?

17 Doofus  Jun 12, 2015 5:56:25pm

From the AFL-CIO

The AFL-CIO provided the Obama administration with ideas to improve U.S. trade positions so that they work for the 99%, not just the 1%. Unfortunately, it is becoming clear the TPP will not create jobs, protect the environment and ensure safe imports. Rather, it appears modeled after the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), a free trade agreement where the largest global corporations benefit and working families are left behind.

18 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 6:00:29pm

re: #16 gocart mozart

What is Fischer’s theory: does TPP reduce tariff’s on gay marriage exports?

From the linked article:

In an effort to win Democratic support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the White House released a letter earlier this week signed by seven LGBT ambassadors arguing that the trade deal “would represent a significant expansion of enforceable labor rights, and would support the elimination of discrimination with respect to employment [and be] a force for progress on human rights for everyone, including for LGBTI persons.”

19 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 6:04:19pm
Fischer:…(1:05-1:30) “… but, if we oppose sexual deviancy, then we want to insist that… well, it’s too late, I mean the boat is in, so what’s done, eh, ah, is done... but uh, we ought to be critical of any congressman who voted for this thing is a morally dangerous bill and we know that from the letter that these homosexuals THEMSELVES posted on the White House website, so again…”

Fischer gives up! Abandon hope! The boat is in!

20 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 12, 2015 6:04:47pm

/considers the beehive

/decides nope, there are better things to do with my evening.

I’m making Guinness shepherd’s pies for dinner.

21 Timothy Watson  Jun 12, 2015 6:07:27pm

Been playing Baldur’s Gate II, been so long since I’ve played it that I don’t remember where all the traps are…

22 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank  Jun 12, 2015 6:09:21pm

re: #20 klys (maker of Silmarils)

/considers the beehive

/decides nope, there are better things to do with my evening.

I’m making Guinness shepherd’s pies for dinner.

Childhood Sundays in Oxfordshire: cottage pie and chocolate cake at the Yarnton Nursery.

Haven’t had it in ages. Nostalgic.

23 Charles Johnson  Jun 12, 2015 6:09:45pm

re: #19 jaunte

Imagine the terror Bryan Fischer feels. The HOMOSEXUALS are posting on the White House site!

We’re DOOMED!

Bryan Fischer’s head is full of snakes.

24 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 12, 2015 6:10:08pm

re: #21 Timothy Watson

Been playing Baldur’s Gate II, been so long since I’ve played it that I don’t remember where all the traps are…

Would you recommend playing the first one before I play II?

25 HappyWarrior  Jun 12, 2015 6:11:08pm

Lol this is pathetic even for Fischer.

26 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 12, 2015 6:12:58pm

re: #21 Timothy Watson

Been playing Baldur’s Gate II, been so long since I’ve played it that I don’t remember where all the traps are…

Every few months I fire up DOSBox and play the original XCOM: UFO Defense. I’ve lost count of the number of times that I’ve started a game and gone into combat before I remember that my green troops have just enough action points to move themselves into the aliens’ line of fire.

27 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 6:13:11pm

The boat is in.

28 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank  Jun 12, 2015 6:18:20pm

re: #24 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Would you recommend playing the first one before I play II?

It’s not strictly necessary, but there is a continuity of plot and characters, so you lose a bit if you haven’t played the first.

29 Timothy Watson  Jun 12, 2015 6:18:38pm

re: #24 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Would you recommend playing the first one before I play II?

I started with II, went back to I and never finished it. II’s definitely the better of the two, plus it hard getting used to playing a level 1 character, who’s weak as a kitten, compared to starting with a level 7 or 8 who can handle him/herself in most situations.

30 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 12, 2015 6:19:49pm

re: #27 jaunte

FYI: Fred Grandy was an Republican Representative from Iowa.

31 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank  Jun 12, 2015 6:20:05pm

re: #29 Timothy Watson

Seconded.

32 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 12, 2015 6:21:03pm

re: #28 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank

re: #29 Timothy Watson

Thanks. Debating what will go on vacation with me in a week.

33 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 6:23:50pm

re: #30 Eric The Fruit Bat

Six degrees of Fred Grandy and Bryan Fischer:
rightwingwatch.org

34 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 6:24:52pm

Did a quick scroll through downstairs.

Harumph, I say!

The whole time, this song was in my head.

…

35 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 6:28:33pm

As for Bryan Fischer, well dude, you better get on board the boat, because the Homosexual Supremacy™ is here to stay.

I, for one, welcome our Homosexual Overlords.
36 TedStriker  Jun 12, 2015 6:29:44pm

re: #35 teleskiguy

As for Bryan Fischer, well dude, you better get on board the boat, because the Homosexual SupremacyTM is here to stay.

Image: I, for one, welcome our Homosexual Overlords.

G-d love The Oatmeal…

37 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank  Jun 12, 2015 6:31:37pm

So tonight I’m playing with food I haven’t cooked with before; manzano peppers. They’re sort of like thick-walled habaneros from South America. They’re also a different capsicum species, and I want to see if the seeds are sproutable, in which case I’ll save some for next year’s garden.

38 freetoken  Jun 12, 2015 6:42:04pm

The JBS trumpet… Wikileaks and NYT?

Leaked TPP Healthcare Text: Another Reason to Scuttle Secret Treaty

WikiLeaks released another chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the still-secret mega-treaty between the United States and 11 other Pacific Rim nations, on Wednesday, two days before a planned vote in the House of Representatives to give President Obama Trade Promotion Authority (TPA, also known as Fast Track).

[…]

The New York Times, in a story on the leaked TPP healthcare annex, accented the Big Pharma-TPP connection, reporting:

Pharmaceutical firms and their trade associations have filed by far more lobbying disclosure forms on the Pacific trade negotiations than any other industry, according to the watchdog Sunlight Foundation. More broadly, the pharmaceutical and health product industries have been the biggest spenders on lobbying, and drug company deal-making with the Obama administration and in Congress was instrumental in securing passage of the Affordable Care Act.

The Times further noted: “Public health professionals say pharmaceutical industry lobbying is meant to diminish the power of government health programs that trim reimbursement rates to global pharmaceutical giants. The newly leaked annex, dated Dec. 17, 2014, lists Medicare and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services as falling under its strictures.”

[…]

I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that the Birchers, Wikileaks, Democratic congress-folk, and mainstream media are all on the same side…

40 makeitstop  Jun 12, 2015 6:50:01pm

re: #39 freetoken

You knew this was going to happen:

PornHub, which claims to be the world’s biggest pornography site, is crowdfunding for a sex tape filmed in zero gravity.

The Final Frontier.

41 Charles Johnson  Jun 12, 2015 6:50:55pm
42 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 6:52:22pm

I was just thinking about the trade agreement. Well, Rachel Maddow was talking about it. Anyhoo, the Democrats got their asses handed to them last November because they didn’t have the balls to stand with the President. He is thier best asset this campaign season, far better than Hilary or Bill. I don’t think they really know what they’re doing.

43 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 6:58:16pm

re: #38 freetoken

The JBS trumpet… Wikileaks and NYT?

Leaked TPP Healthcare Text: Another Reason to Scuttle Secret Treaty

I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that the Birchers, Wikileaks, Democratic congress-folk, and mainstream media are all on the same side…

If it is assumed that the TPP will be good only for US plutocrats, this odd-looking coalition makes near-perfect sense (mainstream media being the main anomaly).

44 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 6:59:13pm

re: #37 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank

[Embedded content]

So tonight I’m playing with food I haven’t cooked with before; manzano peppers. They’re sort of like thick-walled habaneros from South America. They’re also a different capsicum species, and I want to see if the seeds are sproutable, in which case I’ll save some for next year’s garden.

We’re having a very good pepper year. We’ve discovered Marconis, that are as good as poblanos, but bigger. (And they don’t throw a super-hot ‘sport’ reversion.) Last night we slit a few boatwise, filled them with crumb/sausage mixture, topped with grated cheese, and gave them 20 minutes on the Weber. This is the earliest I remember getting large mature Bells.

45 JadeHelmCurious  Jun 12, 2015 7:00:28pm

re: #38 freetoken

I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that the Birchers, Wikileaks, Democratic congress-folk, and mainstream media are all on the same side…

Good luck on that. I’ve accepted our fate and believe the asteroid will be more humane and merciful than being left to our own devices.

46 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 7:02:17pm

re: #42 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I was just thinking about the trade agreement. Well, Rachel Maddow was talking about it. Anyhoo, the Democrats got their asses handed to them last November because they didn’t have the balls to stand with the President. He is thier best asset this campaign season, far better than Hilary or Bill. I don’t think they really know what they’re doing.

Time will tell. I do think the Democrats in 2014 got in trouble by running away from the president, with Grimes in KY being outstandingly spineless.

However, nobody is going to be able to fire up the Democratic base by touting another trade deal.

In my opinion, Obama is making a big mistake by pushing so hard for the TPP.

47 freetoken  Jun 12, 2015 7:08:36pm

I’m not sure the Democratic Party means much to swaths of America anymore.

Locally, I never come across any public presence of the local Democratic party. Sure, I can see the “D” after the names of some politicians from the region, but that is about it.

Then every election, a few weeks before the election, some flier shows up in the mailbox claiming to be from the Democratic party saying to vote or not vote for this or that person or ballot measure.

And then they’re incognito until the next election.

OTOH, the local Republicans have their talking heads on local radio forever spouting this or that idiocy, berating libruls and Democrats, etc.

What does it mean to be a political party in 2015? Why would any average person be aware of a political party, other than the parties are MacGuffins for network television news shows, simple plot devices to bring up some story-line conflict to hold the viewers’ attention long enough to the next commercial?

48 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 7:09:06pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

Time will tell. I do think the Democrats in 2014 got in trouble by running away from the president, with Grimes in KY being outstandingly spineless.

However, nobody is going to be able to fire up the Democratic base by touting another trade deal.

In my opinion, Obama is making a big mistake by pushing so hard for the TPP.

When I figure out whether NAFTA accelerated or slowed the death of American manufacturing jobs, I’ll know my opinion of TPP. It all falls back to deciding what is an “American” job and an “American” industry, and whether those terms make any sense any more.

49 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank  Jun 12, 2015 7:13:36pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

We’re having a very good pepper year. We’ve discovered Marconis, that are as good as poblanos, but bigger. (And they don’t throw a super-hot ‘sport’ reversion.) Last night we slit a few boatwise, filled them with crumb/suasage mixture, topped with grated cheese, and gave them 20 minutes on the Weber. This is the earliest I remember getting large mature Bells.

I’m still fumbling through creating a garden space. The yard turns out to be really resistant to being replaced.

I picked two small Cubanelle plants the other day. I can’t quantify how they’re different than regular green bell peppers, but I like them more. I really hope I can get them bigger and producing.

I’m going to having buckets of cherry tomatoes, though.

50 Charles Johnson  Jun 12, 2015 7:15:11pm

…

51 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 7:15:34pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

Time will tell. I do think the Democrats in 2014 got in trouble by running away from the president, with Grimes in KY being outstandingly spineless.

However, nobody is going to be able to fire up the Democratic base by touting another trade deal.

In my opinion, Obama is making a big mistake by pushing so hard for the TPP.

Yep. People are tired of being screwed over and really don’t want to be screwed over again by yet another trade agreement that only helps big biz & the billionaire owners.

Who got helped by NAFTA? No one who works for a living, except to put even more cheap imported junk in Walmart.

Who will be helped by TPP? No one who works for a living coupled with devastating new restrictions on intellectual property (see eff.org ) that only favors big biz and the billionaires in charge.

I’ve always said that Obama is the best Republican president since Ike and his push for “free” trade simply shows that at it’s most blatant. Even Nixon was more progressive economically. If the Democrats can spike this plan it will be for the good of the nation in the long run.

52 Drive By Commenter  Jun 12, 2015 7:18:34pm

Does anyone else wonder what Bryan Fischer does in his spare time?

53 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 7:21:10pm

I don’t think the trade agreements like NAFTA are solely responsible for the widening income gap. Public policy of all kinds (like tax code, deregulation, monopolies), combined with the weakening of organized labor have made the powerful less responsive to the source of their power.

54 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 7:22:28pm

re: #49 The Ghost of a Bikini Shank

I’m still fumbling through creating a garden space. The yard turns out to be really resistant to being replaced.

I picked two small Cubanelle plants the other day. I can’t quantify how they’re different than regular green bell peppers, but I like them more. I really hope I can get them bigger and producing.

I’m going to having buckets of cherry tomatoes, though.

This year I’m growing everything experimentaly in containers of various sizes, up to 32 gallon totes. Next year I’ll standardize on the most effective, which seems to be 18 gallon totes. Our yard soil never was that great, and something bio or chem seems to have wrecked it.

55 b.d.  Jun 12, 2015 7:23:00pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Video

It is really hard to believe that only 80 years ago something like getting into an airplane for a flight across the ocean was, literally, a death defying feat.

56 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 7:23:43pm

re: #51 William Lewis

Yep. People are tired of being screwed over and really don’t want to be screwed over again by yet another trade agreement that only helps big biz & the billionaire owners.

Who got helped by NAFTA? No one who works for a living, except to put even more cheap imported junk in Walmart.

Who will be helped by TPP? No one who works for a living coupled with devastating new restrictions on intellectual property (see eff.org ) that only favors big biz and the billionaires in charge.

I’ve always said that Obama is the best Republican president since Ike and his push for “free” trade simply shows that at it’s most blatant. Even Nixon was more progressive economically. If the Democrats can spike this plan it will be for the good of the nation in the long run.

I would take issue that Walmart’s low prices don’t help working people.
(I also argued in 2008 that Barack Obama was never the raging liberal that the right wingers said he was).

57 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 7:24:20pm

re: #53 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I don’t think the trade agreements like NAFTA are solely responsible for the widening income gap. Public policy of all kinds (like tax code, deregulation, monopolies), combined with the weakening of organized labor have made the powerful less responsive to the source of their power.

I’m certainly not arguing that the trade deals are the sole cause of income inequality issues, because that would be an idiotic argument. However, I do believe the trade deals are part of the problem, and that is sufficient reason for me to oppose them.

58 bratwurst  Jun 12, 2015 7:25:57pm

Sure, we have heard from a lot of run-of-the-mill idiots on Rachel Dolezal…but what does a MAJOR LEAGUE FUCKWIT think?

Yes, this CLEARLY represents THE END OF RACISM.

59 b.d.  Jun 12, 2015 7:26:09pm

When did Bill Maher’s show turn into a occasionally amusing version of Smerconish subhosting of Hardball?

60 b.d.  Jun 12, 2015 7:27:38pm

re: #52 Drive By Commenter

Does anyone else wonder what Bryan Fischer does in his spare time?

I envision that it involves candy and children

61 Drive By Commenter  Jun 12, 2015 7:27:42pm

re: #51 William Lewis

I sometimes look at what has transpired in the last 50 years and think the sane Republicans are now running the Democratic Party while the Republican Party has devolved into the mess any sane person here knows to be true. The real Democrats took to ground and are now just hiding out except for some very brave souls, or just died off. It’s like Joe McCarthy wins, and wins big. All the knuckleheads need to hear is “Social” and it’s a plot. And worse. Why cut your own throat when so many are willing to do it for you? Like those you elect? It’s always the “other guy” till your ox gets gored.

62 Drive By Commenter  Jun 12, 2015 7:27:57pm

re: #60 b.d.

I envision that it involves candy and children

Research.

63 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 7:29:18pm

re: #57 EPR-radar

The way I feel about these trade agreements is that trade will go on outside our borders anyway, whether we are involved or not, and that agreements like these at least give us a shot at protecting some of our interests.

64 sagehen  Jun 12, 2015 7:31:45pm

re: #48 Decatur Deb

When I figure out whether NAFTA accelerated or slowed the death of American manufacturing jobs, I’ll know my opinion of TPP. It all falls back to deciding what is an “American” job and an “American” industry, and whether those terms make any sense any more.

Theory:

If it’s a company traded on an American exchange, if the profits are counted in dollars and mostly go to Americans…

so hundreds of thousands of Chinese people in the Apple factory… are doing “American” jobs.

65 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 7:32:41pm

re: #61 Drive By Commenter

Yep. It’s why I’m putting my money where my mouth is this year - DSA, IWW & Bernie Sanders’ campaign. I’d rather go down swinging.

Updated a photo from the other day…

Image: 20150609_160153.jpg

Edit: In a way, it’s a pity KT isn’t here any more. That little red union membership card would have him just frothing about leftists… LOL!

66 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 7:34:12pm

re: #65 William Lewis

Not exactly sure what you mean, but a lot of Ralph Nader supporters went down swinging.

67 compound_Idaho  Jun 12, 2015 7:35:09pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Fast track is really the only practical way to negotiate. The agreement however should be debated for 6 months or a year then an up or down vote. There is no hurry.

68 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 7:35:46pm

re: #64 sagehen

Theory:

If it’s a company traded on an American exchange, if the profits are counted in dollars and mostly go to Americans…

so hundreds of thousands of Chinese people in the Apple factory… are doing “American” jobs.

But does the value generated in those plants go to Americans? Certainly not to American labor in any direct way. Even the ownership does not really lodge within any nation’s borders.

69 EPR-radar  Jun 12, 2015 7:36:55pm

re: #63 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

The way I feel about these trade agreements is that trade will go on outside our borders anyway, whether we are involved or not, and that agreements like these at least give us a shot at protecting some of our interests.

The difficulty with this argument is that ‘US interests’ tend to become ‘US corporate interests’ and it all goes downhill from there.

However, it is refreshing to deal with a political issue on which reasonable people can differ, unlike so many wingnut vs. sane people issues.

70 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 7:37:25pm

re: #66 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Not exactly sure what you mean, but a lot of Ralph Nader supporters went down swinging.

Bernie can drag the debate back to near the center. He won’t win the nomination even but he can have a positive impact on the Democratic race by forcing Hillary to be less of a Blue Dog on the record.

Nader was only ever in it for Nader. There was no way he was ever going to accomplish anything positive and his sabotage of the general election shows that.

71 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 7:39:58pm

re: #65 William Lewis

Yep. It’s why I’m putting my money where my mouth is this year - DSA, IWW & Bernie Sanders’ campaign. I’d rather go down swinging.

Updated a photo from the other day…

Image: 20150609_160153.jpg

Edit: In a way, it’s a pity KT isn’t here any more. That little red union membership card would have him just frothing about leftists… LOL!

Do you have a moment to talk with me about the SDS…?

facebook.com

72 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 12, 2015 7:40:58pm

re: #69 EPR-radar

I do acknowledge that “US interests” and corporate interests are seriously intertwined. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that “what’s good for GM is good for America”, but at least if we negotiate trade deals it gives us a shot at having some say in what would otherwise be a free for all.

I hate to start something and leave, but I have to do a bunch of stuff that I’ve been ignoring all day.

73 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 7:42:53pm

re: #71 Decatur Deb

Do you have a moment to talk with me about the SDS…?

facebook.com

Not old enough to be around for them. Studied them in High School a lot and did a fun report on the Port Huron Statement once upon a lifetime ago…

74 Decatur Deb  Jun 12, 2015 7:43:30pm

re: #73 William Lewis

Not old enough to be around for them. Studied them in High School a lot and did a fun report on the Port Huron Statement once upon a lifetime ago…

It’s not quite that SDS.

75 thedopefishlives  Jun 12, 2015 7:45:07pm

Evening Lizardim.

76 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 7:47:13pm

re: #74 Decatur Deb

It’s not quite that SDS.

Hah! That’s what get for assuming. I’ll go actually look at that link now… ;)

77 bratwurst  Jun 12, 2015 8:05:21pm

Yeah…well…think of all the value NJ taxpayers are getting in return, what with the increase in tourism that will be happening ANY TIME NOW.

78 Belafon  Jun 12, 2015 8:19:03pm

My thoughts on the TPP:
1. I would have supported fast-track authority because in negotiations like these, it should be the president making the treaty and congress votes it up or down.
2. I am opposed to giving the ability to corporations to sue countries. They exist at our discretion, not the other way around.
3. I don’t think Obama thinks as much about the economics of this agreement as he does the diplomacy. He might be trying to counteract the growth of China in the region, or just feel that we need stronger economic ties to Asia.
4. As for the Democrats paying the price, a new trade deal is unpopular with most people.

79 BadExampleMan  Jun 12, 2015 8:21:32pm
American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer …”A Major Tool …”

Right on, baby!

80 darthstar  Jun 12, 2015 8:24:07pm

If the TPP was a tool for sexual deviancy, the GOP would have passed it on their own.

81 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 8:24:11pm
82 darthstar  Jun 12, 2015 8:28:09pm

My older (15 or so) dog Fozzie has taken to drinking my Manhattans. And not just licking the condensation off the outside of the glass…we’re talking full snout insertion with deep laps at the ice cubes. I heard it happening a few minutes ago and looked over my screen to see him going to town on my drink. Not something I could simply wipe off with my fingers and continue drinking. Oh well…he’s old. Let him have his bourbon.

83 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 12, 2015 8:29:19pm
84 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 12, 2015 8:38:51pm

OT, but I’m still wading through the @jason interview with Chuck. I’ve noticed CCJ has a habit of saying “sort of” and “kind of” when he’s making assertions. He’s hedging his arguments, which suggests he’s really not as cocksure as he pretends to be.

Also, he’s under the impression that those packs of social justice warriors he mentioned earlier in the interview are constantly on their toes, waiting for him to say something objectionable, so they can pounce on him and get him banned. A wee touch o’ that paranoia, laddie.

Of course, no one can pounce on him now, since he’s off Twitter. He really misses that attention, I guess.

85 darthstar  Jun 12, 2015 8:48:59pm

Chili Dog Cleanse. Don’t laugh. I found it on the internet.

mcsweeneys.net

86 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 12, 2015 9:11:06pm

re: #85 darthstar

Chili Dog Cleanse. Don’t laugh. I found it on the internet.

mcsweeneys.net

Not going to click. Capitalizing the word “cleanse” in the name of the thing scares me almost as much as clowns do.

87 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 9:24:05pm

re: #82 darthstar

Manhattan Fozzie Cleanse.

88 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 9:25:23pm

re: #85 darthstar

Chili Dog Cleanse. Don’t laugh. I found it on the internet.

mcsweeneys.net

—George Carlin, “Life Is Worth Losing.”

89 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 9:26:48pm

re: #85 darthstar

Today was my mother’s 89th birthday. We asked her what she wanted for lunch. Chili dogs.

90 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 12, 2015 9:28:18pm

re: #88 teleskiguy

George Carlin, “Life Is Worth Losing.”

All that will soon be a menu item at Pizza Hut — New! The Hot Dogs Corn Dogs Triple Bacon Cheeseburgers Deep Fried Butter Dipped In Pork Fat Cheese Whiz Mayonnaise BBQ Mozzarella Patty Melt Deep Dish Pizza!! For a limited time only.

91 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 9:30:42pm

re: #90 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

All that will soon be a menu item at Pizza Hut — New! The Hot Dogs Corn Dogs Triple Bacon Cheeseburgers Deep Fried Butter Dipped In Pork Fat Cheese Whiz Mayonnaise BBQ Mozzarella Patty Melt Deep Dish Pizza!! For a limited time only.

Ugh. It’s true.

92 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 9:31:57pm

It’s missing the triple bacon cheese burgers, and the deep fried butter dipped in pork fat, the cheeze whiz, the mayonnaise…

93 jaunte  Jun 12, 2015 9:32:39pm

re: #91 teleskiguy

Guy Fieri is under there somewhere.

94 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 9:35:21pm

re: #93 jaunte

Shit, where’s Paula Deen when we need her?

95 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 9:44:18pm

A trade agreement might be tolerable if there had been an effort over the years to prepare for our new reality. Like paid leave or universal health care or easier daycare options or a more efficient transportation system or an affordable education system or something, anything. For crying out loud we’re arguing in my state about allowing high school dropouts to teach in our fucking schools for no benefits. We’re not in this “together” and to play the contrarian, I give 2 fucks about “our” interests. They aren’t our interests they are the interests of entities that give no fucks for “our” well being. If China has more influence in their region so be it. The capitalists in our country gave them all the capital they need to flex their muscles. They did that, not me.

96 retired cynic  Jun 12, 2015 9:57:47pm

I don’t know enough to judge the pros and cons of these trade agreements. I guess I rate them by how I trust the person doing the negotiating. In this case, I am willing, for my part, for Obama to have the authority to negotiate, and then look at the result. Listen to the analysis of people I tend to agree with, and then decide whether I am for it or against it. Just because some folks that I don’t like are for it doesn’t mean that I should reject it out of hand.

These things are so complicated in their effects, and the negotiations are not complete, that it is too soon to say, IMO, absolutely yes or no.

97 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 10:02:31pm

re: #91 teleskiguy

Ugh. It’s true.

[Embedded content]

Please don’t remind me. They’re not going to be fun at the make table…

98 TedStriker  Jun 12, 2015 10:02:44pm

re: #94 teleskiguy

Shit, where’s Paula Deen when we need her?

Not enough butter…

99 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 10:03:53pm

re: #96 retired cynic

Yes the details are not public understandably, but we’ve seen this play out before and workers in this country have been given the shaft. I don’t believe american labor is even being given any due. To use the tired phrase “the most powerful country in the world” rings hollow when large segments of our working population have to beg the government for food.

100 retired cynic  Jun 12, 2015 10:06:13pm

President Obama has just earned my trust enough to let him negotiate for me. That’s all.

101 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 10:07:08pm

re: #100 retired cynic

Fair enough, I am glad he is in the driver’s seat too.

102 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 10:07:45pm

…

103 Dark_Falcon  Jun 12, 2015 10:17:58pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The Democratic Party is playing right into the GOP’s hands on this issue. This is exactly what the GOP wanted to happen.

No, Paul Ryan wants TTP to pass, and so do most Republicans. Now, I’m not going to pretend that the Grand Old Party doesn’t enjoy watching members of the Democracy feuding, but the main Republican objective has been to pass the legislation. That’s the whole reason President Obama’s refrained from going after Chairman Ryan: In order to let the Rules Committee Chairman corral votes for a bill the president wants to sign.

There’s no grand skullduggery (heh) at work here. folks, just the more normal Congressional legislative drama. And frankly, I’m glad to see it as opposed to some of the insanity of recent years.

104 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 10:26:07pm

Of course the GOP wants it to pass. There has never been a (so called) Free Trade agreement that was good for the nation. They, like TPP, are only good for those who make the 1% seem poor. IOW the GOP’s real bosses.

105 Dark_Falcon  Jun 12, 2015 10:29:41pm

re: #104 William Lewis

It seems you’re at odds with the president on this one.

106 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 10:32:29pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

He’s a good Republican when it comes to economics, DF. I just have to wobble on through, working for a living.

107 Dark_Falcon  Jun 12, 2015 10:52:35pm

re: #106 William Lewis

He’s a good Republican when it comes to economics, DF. I just have to wobble on through, working for a living.

He’s no Republican, William, he’s still a left-liberal. But his adopted hometown is Chicago, and trade has always been Chicago’s lifeblood, and the president knows this as well as I do. He thus sees trade as a basically good thing.

Further, The Trans-Pacific Partnership offers the US an organization it can use to apply non-military pressure to China. And whatever else is true, Barack Obama doesn’t want war with China, even though such a war is very unlikely to occur during the remainder of his tenure. But with the Partnership in place, costs for bullying can be imposed upon China without guns being aimed, which is the first and best means of deterring Chinese aggression. It has to be backed by military force, of course, but using economic means offers ways to resolve crises without backing China into a corner.

Good Night, All.

108 William Lewis  Jun 12, 2015 11:01:04pm

We will control the Chinese by giving them even more of our economy on a silver platter? That’s almost as good as the trickle down lie.

And, no, the president would not be considered left liberal in any place where the Overton window hadn’t been as twisted to the right as far as Fox news has. In 1972 we’d have called him a Rockefeller Republican and laughed at how president Nixon’s economic policy was more liberal.

109 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:08:53pm

re: #21 Timothy Watson

Been playing Baldur’s Gate II, been so long since I’ve played it that I don’t remember where all the traps are…

Playing ToB now.

110 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 11:11:01pm

re: #89 jaunte

Today was my mother’s 89th birthday. We asked her what she wanted for lunch. Chili dogs.

89 Rotations
Oh Lord!

Is it because, she’s got the 89 Vision
Oh Lord!
She Got The 89 Vision!
and is it because
it’s an ANONYMOUS decision…
Oh Lord!

jaunte’s mama is 89, 89 Rotations around our local Star!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

111 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:11:21pm

re: #24 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Would you recommend playing the first one before I play II?

Not required (I started with II n years ago), but it’s one story in two parts, so it just makes more sense to play I first, and with the enhanced edition they have the same graphics/interface, so it’s all the same experience.

112 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:14:38pm

re: #58 bratwurst

Sure, we have heard from a lot of run-of-the-mill idiots on Rachel Dolezal…but what does a MAJOR LEAGUE FUCKWIT think?

[Embedded content]

Yes, this CLEARLY represents THE END OF RACISM.

For Dinesh and the likes of him the “end of racism” has been happening every day since Obama got elected - and still does.

113 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:15:53pm

re: #59 b.d.

When did Bill Maher’s show turn into a occasionally amusing version of Smerconish subhosting of Hardball?

I gave up on Maher years ago.
I remember how I was disappointed with the low intellectual quality of Religulous. Then there were the vaccines…

114 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:18:10pm

re: #91 teleskiguy

This looks like some alien breeding grounds.
Aesthetics matters.

115 teleskiguy  Jun 12, 2015 11:19:57pm

And Happy Birthday to Rightwingconspirator! I’ll leave this here for him.

…

116 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:23:10pm

re: #111 Nyet

Not required (I started with II n years ago), but it’s one story in two parts, so it just makes more sense to play I first, and with the enhanced edition they have the same graphics/interface, so it’s all the same experience.

There is in fact a mod that makes a single game out of I and II (with II=SoA and ToB).

117 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:32:03pm

I have no idea about the rest of TPP, but I’m always glad when any laws or agreements strengthening and expanding (as TPP does) the current copyright bullshit fail. No, I’m not against copyright per se (even as I don’t give a damn about it in practice), but the system as it is makes no sense to me. E.g.:

With regard to copyright, the TPP requires that signatories establish “term of protection of a work (including a photographic work), performance, or phonogram” of: 70 years following the death of a natural person; for a non-natural person the term is “not less than 95 years from the end of the calendar year of the first authorized publication of the work, performance of phonogram.”

Why? So that the creator’s estate continues to get fat 70 years after that? For what purpose? Sorry, for me knowledge and free flow of information take precedence, “electronic commie” that I am.

Maybe I’m not so radical as to say that all copyrights should simply last 20 years since the date of creation and basta, but them ending, say, 10 years after the author’s death would be an optimal compromise.

118 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 11:41:35pm

Check out these crazy robots!

…

119 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:49:57pm

re: #118 Amory Blaine

Wow. Is there an associated article? What’s the propulsion mechanism?

120 Amory Blaine  Jun 12, 2015 11:51:40pm

re: #119 Nyet

spectrum.ieee.org

121 Nyet  Jun 12, 2015 11:58:06pm
First, the magnetic field isn’t dragging the magnet anywhere: the field is directional, but it’s just turning on and off at about 15 Hz. This causes the magnet that the robot is attached to oscillate back and forth, and the robot oscillates as well. As this happens, the front and back legs of the robot alternately contact the ground, and the asymmetry of the design combined with the intentionally off-center balance point causes the robot to walk forward. None of this works with the robot in its unfolded, flat configuration: it has to be folded into this shape to walk at all.

Clever.

122 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:00:15am

re: #109 Nyet

Playing ToB now.

Picked up Pillars of Eternity on Steam this evening.

123 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 12:03:20am

re: #108 William Lewis

Barack Obama is the black Eisenhower.

124 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:04:16am

re: #122 Kragar

Picked up Pillars of Eternity on Steam this evening.

Do tell about your experiences after you “play yourself in”.

125 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:05:39am

re: #124 Nyet

Do tell about your experiences after you “play yourself in”.

Only about 90 minutes in, but good so far. Still getting the feel for it. Went with a Ranger for starters

126 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:06:50am
127 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:08:54am
128 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 12:09:36am

Well, this is not good. Those OPM hackers obtained the security clearance files of military and intelligence personnel.

bbc.com

129 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:10:03am

re: #127 Kragar

wtf

130 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:10:23am
131 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:10:55am

re: #128 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Is the NSA asleep at the wheel?

132 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:11:55am
133 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:12:52am
134 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:13:00am

re: #132 Kragar

OK, shooting in the wild here: McVeigh types?

135 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:13:18am
136 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 12:13:35am

re: #131 Nyet

Is the NSA asleep at the wheel?

From other reports, it seems the hackers had free run of the computer systems at the OPM for about a year.

137 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:14:10am

re: #73 William Lewis

Not old enough to be around for them. Studied them in High School a lot and did a fun report on the Port Huron Statement once upon a lifetime ago…

The original or the compromised 2nd draft?

138 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:15:18am

re: #136 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

From other reports, it seems the hackers had free run of the computer systems at the OPM for about a year.

So not so much asleep at the wheel as lying in a drug-induced coma.

139 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:15:18am
140 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:17:06am
141 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:18:10am

…

142 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:19:30am
143 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:19:56am

re: #134 Nyet

OK, shooting in the wild here: McVeigh types?

Yeah, after having seen those vids, that’s what I’m wondering; sovereign citizens?

Either that, or someone’s been watching The A-Team waaaay too much.

144 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:24:09am

re: #143 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, after having seen those vids, that’s what I’m wondering; sovereign citizens?

Either that, or someone’s been watching The A-Team waaaay too much.

Definitely thinking militia types

145 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:24:38am
146 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:26:09am

re: #144 Kragar

Definitely thinking militia types

Frankly, who else would that be with armored vans and stuff, in Texas.

147 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:26:16am
148 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:26:57am
149 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:28:35am

re: #148 Kragar

WTF, who the fuck sells these things and for what purpose?
It’s all fun and games, “zombies”, until stuff like this happens.

150 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:29:46am

re: #145 Kragar

re: #144 Kragar

That looks like one of those vans you see private security firms drive - you know, the ones they use to pick up money from banks and stores and whatnot. But that’s not exactly the clearest image of the vehicle.

If that’s a modification of some typical passenger vehicle, that sure as hell wasn’t cheap; whoever did that had some money to burn, I’d think.

151 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:31:21am

re: #148 Kragar

Looks like it was sold 2 days ago.

152 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 12:31:34am

re: #150 Dr Lizardo

the ones they use to pick up money from banks and stores and whatnot

OK, that at least makes sense.

153 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:35:55am

re: #151 Amory Blaine

re: #152 Nyet

And from what I’m reading on eBay, it’s got ‘Lenco certified mil-spec armor’ and ‘interior armor plating’, provided this is the vehicle in question.

Some photos here if you scroll down.

ebay.com

That’s gonna make it tough for the DPD. I presume it has bulletproof glass.

*ETA - yes, it does bulletproof windows. Damn thing is the War Wagon.

154 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:36:08am
155 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:36:38am
156 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:37:09am
157 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:41:01am

Looks like it sold on eBay for $8,250.

That’s pricey, at least in my book - certainly more than I’ve ever paid for any vehicle I’ve personally ever owned.

158 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:41:48am
159 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:41:57am

Looks homemade, or at least modified.

160 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:44:58am

I’ve never seen folding up running boards like that on the side of an armored vehicle.

161 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 12:48:40am

re: #153 Dr Lizardo

The one bidder really wanted it too. The history show the same bidder bidding in the RV category in the same time period. Maybe for a different vehicle?

162 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:49:40am
163 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:49:57am

re: #161 Amory Blaine

Yeah, I saw that too. Whoever that bidder is, they really wanted this van.

164 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 12:52:36am

I assume that the Second Amendment can be interpreted to also cover the right to bear armored vehicles…

165 Kragar  Jun 13, 2015 12:53:27am
166 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 12:54:37am

re: #164 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I assume that the Second Amendment can be interpreted to also cover the right to bear armored vehicles…

Well, seeing as how many of the ammosexuals think it also includes the right to military-grade hardware, that wouldn’t be much of a leap.

167 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 12:55:56am

re: #163 Dr Lizardo

That bid just ended a few days ago, if indeed that is the vehicle in question. If so, then to get to Dallas in a few days that means either it was really a spur of the moment thing (unlikely) or someone was wanting to do this for a while and was just waiting around for the right vehicle.

Or, perhaps it’s a different vehicle but made by the same company that adapted that Ford van?

168 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 12:56:11am

re: #166 Dr Lizardo

Well, seeing as how many of the ammosexuals think it also includes the right to military-grade hardware, that wouldn’t be much of a leap.

Can’t have a well regulated militia without a balanced mix of infantry, armor and artillery…

169 Apocalypse  Jun 13, 2015 12:56:17am

re: #164 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Interpreted to also cover the right to bear armored vehicles…

The right to cover bears in armor alternatively.

170 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 12:59:00am

If it’s the same vehicle, then:

The vehicle was used by a government agency.

?? Was this a South Carolina state vehicle, or local law enforcement vehicle?

171 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 1:00:10am

re: #169 Apocalypse

The right to cover bears in armor alternatively.

Panserbjorn to be WIld!

172 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 1:04:37am
173 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:05:16am

re: #170 freetoken

If it’s the same vehicle, then:

?? Was this a South Carolina state vehicle, or local law enforcement vehicle?

It seems to be a heavily-modified private vehicle - there’s plenty of companies that will take your car, truck, or van, and basically turn into the War Rig.

174 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:06:22am

re: #168 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Can’t have a well regulated militia without a balanced mix of infantry, armor and artillery…

And don’t forget air support!

175 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:07:37am

re: #172 goddamnedfrank

@BudKennedy Wait, the van buyer didn’t even leave eBay feedback? Man, they really are assholes. #DPDattack #DallasPDShooting

Well, to be fair, the buyer’s obviously still evaluating it.

/////

176 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 1:08:19am

re: #174 Dr Lizardo

And don’t forget air support!

We need an amendment to cover the rights and priveleges of the Air Militia. GW Bush should be made honorary Commandant-in-Chief so he has an excuse to wear that hankin’ butch flight suit in public again.

177 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:10:38am

re: #173 Dr Lizardo

Well, the vehicle check on the van that just recently sold on eBay says it was owned by a gov’t agency at one time.

It is not clear if the modifications were made after that or before that.

178 Single-handed sailor  Jun 13, 2015 1:12:00am

Hah!

179 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:15:37am

re: #177 freetoken

Well, the vehicle check on the van that just recently sold on eBay says it was owned by a gov’t agency at one time.

It is not clear if the modifications were made after that or before that.

Good point - Jenco simply sold it; no way of knowing if they modded it. Maybe an old SWAT vehicle or something?

180 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:16:28am

Ok, so I see that both CTs and racism are already flowing on twitter.

181 teleskiguy  Jun 13, 2015 1:16:28am

I step away from the computer for a bit and AIEEE! What in Ullr’s name is going on in Dallas?!?

182 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:16:55am

re: #179 Dr Lizardo

Who knows. I suppose when this is all over there will be a back story.

Supposed to be a presser at 3:15 but it hasn’t started yet.

183 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:17:52am

re: #182 freetoken

Who knows. I suppose when this is all over there will be a back story.

Supposed to be a presser at 3:15 but it hasn’t started yet.

Well, Jenco’s certainly going to get a knock on their door, that’s for damned sure. I’m sure the police are most interested in talking them to right about now.

184 Single-handed sailor  Jun 13, 2015 1:20:19am

Press conference here.

periscope.tv

185 William of Orange  Jun 13, 2015 1:23:26am

TPP is wrong, but not for that reason. It is what it is: nothing but toilet paper.

186 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:23:58am

re: #184 Single-handed sailor

Thanks.

187 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:25:09am

re: #184 Single-handed sailor

thanks.

188 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:30:03am

Yep.

189 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:31:50am

wfaa.com

190 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 1:32:51am

Man, I get distracted today and don’t catch up till now, and this is what’s going on?

How sure are we it’s not this guy?

Charming Fella Just Needs $1 Million To Run Blacks Out Of Texas

Apparently he couldn’t get his million, but he was up to $10,175—maybe he decided to use that to buy the van and punish the PD for accepting the resignation of Barrel Roll Cop.

191 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:34:10am

re: #190 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

There’s a Backpfeifenfresse if there ever was one…

192 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 1:36:12am

re: #191 Nyet

There’s a Backpfeifenfresse if there ever was one…

And physiologial proof of the intellectual superiority of the White Race.

193 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:37:51am

Somebody should reverse his reverse “smile”. ;)

194 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 1:38:55am

re: #191 Nyet

There’s a Backpfeifenfresse if there ever was one…

And one of the mutants who can get earbuds to stay in their ears….

195 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 1:40:10am

re: #194 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

And one of the mutants who can get earbuds to stay in their ears….

I suspect he had them surgically implanted, tied together by a string through his skull

196 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 1:41:07am

re: #195 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I suspect he had them surgically implanted, tied together by a string through his skull

You’ve just given me an idea.

197 Single-handed sailor  Jun 13, 2015 1:42:27am

re: #190 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Man, I get distracted today and don’t catch up till now, and this is what’s going on?

How sure are we it’s not this guy?

[Embedded content]

Apparently he couldn’t get his million, but he was up to $10,175—maybe he decided to use that to buy the van and punish the PD for accepting the resignation of Barrel Roll Cop.

It looks like Thumb Guy.

Thumb Guy
198 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 1:46:28am

re: #197 Single-handed sailor

It looks like Thumb Guy.

More proof of white racial superiority…

199 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:49:21am

Don’t look at this one’s profile. Don’t look at this one’s profile. Don’t look at this one’s profile.

200 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 1:53:59am

White male.

201 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:55:07am

Pipe bomb in one bag. 3 more bags.

202 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 1:55:50am

re: #200 Nyet

White male.

Watch that disappear down the RW memory hole. If he turns out to a “Patriot” type - all the more so.

203 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 1:58:23am

Someone already found back info on the possible James Boulware:

crimeblog.dallasnews.com

204 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:00:32am

re: #203 freetoken

The face: kxii.com

205 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:05:48am

re: #204 Nyet

He did all this stuff and two years later he was still free to do what he did today.

Like, a poster bad boy for the white privilege principle?

206 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 2:05:52am

….

Never mind. I didn’t see the 2013 in the dateline.

Oops.

207 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:06:34am

re: #206 Dr Lizardo

2013

208 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 2:06:59am

re: #207 Nyet

2013

Yeah, I just caught that. I edited my post.

209 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:08:18am

“Suspect blames us for losing his child.”

210 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 2:10:32am

re: #209 Nyet

“Suspect blames us for losing his child.”

Was his child at a pool party?

211 subterraneanhomesickalien  Jun 13, 2015 2:12:39am

I have had nothing but pop sickles and codeine to eat for the last 24 hours. Knee surgery is a motherfucker. They were not gentle with my neck when they put in my breathing tube. It feels like someone had me in a headlock and was just wrenching the shit out of it for thirty minutes.

And it is bizarre to me that the President would pick this particular neo-liberal hill to die on. These free trade pacts aren’t really that popular anymore since we have seen what NAFTA and some of the other treaties signed during the nineties has wrought.

We should be tariff-ing the shit out of foreign goods instead of subsiding the governments of Mexico, China, India, and a host of other countries with this incomprehensible 500 billion dollar annual trade deficit we’ve built ourselves. I know I for one am willing to pay extra for something knowing that one of my fellow countrymen helped create on an assembly line or through some sort of machining operation.

It is something to see that almost all of the other developed industrialized nations using the same Hamiltonian protectionist model for trade that we used to up until the 80’s, because they know “free trade” is really not free for the average worker who in America has seen almost the entirety of their manufacturing base disappear over the last thirty years.

We seem to have the only government that actually believes in this shit, and is backed up by the only real benefactors of it which is the extremely cynical, myopic, and greedy corporate base in this country.

212 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:12:58am

That collective sigh of relief when it turned out that the main suspect is a member of the majority?

When minorities no longer have to experience that sinking feeling about being blamed for a possible crime some unknown person does, then and only then you know that racism is near its “end”.

213 Varek Raith  Jun 13, 2015 2:14:10am

You’d think the sale and ownership of armored vehicles would be monitored/restricted.
e_e

214 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:15:26am

re: #213 Varek Raith

You’d think the sale and ownership of armored vehicles would be monitored/restricted.
e_e

But that would require common sense.

FREEDUMZ!

215 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 2:15:34am

re: #212 Nyet

So that’s the dude? I’m bandwidth limited so no video.

216 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:16:18am

re: #215 Amory Blaine

So that’s the dude? I’m bandwidth limited so no video.

All signs point to yes.

217 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:17:36am

re: #215 Amory Blaine

The police is still careful in phrasing things, but the police guy mentioned that JB’s previous troubles with the law, so we’re looking at the most probable, like 98%, suspect.

218 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:19:30am

Still, seems a bit too elaborate for a “lone wolf”, no?

219 Varek Raith  Jun 13, 2015 2:20:28am

re: #218 Nyet

Still, seems a bit too elaborate for a “lone wolf”, no?

Not if it’s a pack of lone wolves.
/

220 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 2:21:23am

Now here is the utility of the “new media” — Twitter and Periscope enabling instantaneous coverage of breaking news.

221 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:21:32am

re: #219 Varek Raith

Not if it’s a pack of lone wolves.
/

The police said up to 4 suspects, if I haven’t misheard. So there might be more to the story than a “disgruntled wacko”.

222 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 2:22:10am

re: #211 subterraneanhomesickalien

I can deal with competing with other nations on wages, that is our motivation to be more productive and efficient.

But as long as their costs for worker safety and environmental protection are minimal to nonexistent, we are not only shooting our own selves in the foot, we are doing nothing to encourage other nations to clean up their act.

223 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 2:22:29am

re: #221 Nyet

The police said up to 4 suspects, if I haven’t misheard. So there might be more to the story than a “disgruntled wacko”.

Yeah, one guy was unable to get into the van. So the others are holed up inside the vehicle.

224 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:22:34am
225 Varek Raith  Jun 13, 2015 2:23:11am

cnn.com
Explosive specialists have found explosives in one of four suspicious bags found near Dallas’ police headquarters, Police Chief David Brown said. Police believe there were multiple shooters who may have fired from different locations. “There might be up to four suspects,” Brown said.

226 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 2:23:32am

James Boulware ranted on Facebook against the Judge in his case, said she was stifling testimony about cartels and the KKK.

227 Varek Raith  Jun 13, 2015 2:30:36am

No half and half means no coffee.
HULK SMASH.

228 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:31:54am

re: #226 goddamnedfrank

Kim Cooks: dallascounty.org

229 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:35:30am

re: #226 goddamnedfrank

Case docs with lots of PDFs.

courts.dallascounty.org

230 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 2:42:21am

re: #229 Nyet

Link at first went to a generic page. Now it is not working.re: #229 Nyet

231 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 2:42:59am

re: #229 Nyet

Just found them myself, you beat me tho’.

232 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:44:53am

re: #230 freetoken

Click to Reveal

Register of Actions
Case No. DF-05-01475
JAMES LANCE BOULWARE vs. SARAH MALESKY §
§
§
§
§
§
Case Type: PATERNITY - STATE AGENCY
Date Filed: 01/27/2005
Location: 255th District Court
A.G. Number: 0011343209
Party Information
Lead Attorneys
ATTORNEY GENERAL ATTORNEY GENERAL



PETITIONER BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE Pro Se


RESPONDENT MALESKY, SARAH
Events & Orders of the Court
DISPOSITIONS
10/26/2006
AGREED JUDGMENT (Judicial Officer: FOWLER, CRAIG)
Vol./Book 5188, Page 153, 1 pages

OTHER EVENTS AND HEARINGS
01/27/2005 ORIGINAL PETITION (OCA)
Case Petitioned
01/27/2005 -
BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
STATE INDIGENCE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
DC RECORDS MGT FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
SECURITY FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
RECORD MGT FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
CIT & COP ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
TRO & COP ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
CLERKS FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
E/O TRO
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
REEL 3765/055
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
COURT RPT SVC FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
LAW LIBRARY FUND
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
APPELLATE FUND
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
STATE JUDICIAL FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
MEDIATION FUND
Vol./Book 0000000
01/27/2005 -
FACILITY FEE
Vol./Book 0000000
02/10/2005 -
RET CIT PPS
Vol./Book 0020705
02/10/2005 -
RET TRO PPS
Vol./Book 0020705
02/22/2005 -
SUBST ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
02/22/2005 -
ROWLAND CHUCK
Vol./Book 0000000
02/24/2005 -
E/O SUBST ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
02/24/2005 -
ROWLAND CHUCK
Vol./Book 0000000
02/24/2005 -
REEL 3792/046
Vol./Book 0000000
03/22/2005 -
E/O TEMP ORDERS
Vol./Book 0000000
03/22/2005 -
REEL 3815/040
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
M/DRUG SCREENING
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
CIT & COP ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
NOT & COP ATTY
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
MOT FOR ENFORCEMENT
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
E/O APPEAR
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
REEL 3888/036
Vol./Book 0000000
05/26/2005 -
MOT FOR ENFORCEMENT
Vol./Book 0000000
06/22/2005 -
RET CIT TARRANT CO
Vol./Book 0061805
06/22/2005 -
RET NOT TARRANT CO
Vol./Book 0061805
06/22/2005 MISCELLANOUS EVENT
ASSOC. JUDGES REC.
07/11/2005 -
M/ORDER S/S
Vol./Book 0000000
07/14/2005 MOTION - MISCELLANOUS
M/ORDER SOC-STDY
07/28/2005 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7833, Page 420, 1 pages
08/09/2005 -
BAILEY,GALYEN & GOLD
Vol./Book 0000000
08/09/2005 -
M/MOD T-O
Vol./Book 0000000
08/09/2005 -
MOT FOR ENFORCE
Vol./Book 0000000
08/09/2005 -
MOT FOR ENFORCE
Vol./Book 0000000
08/18/2005 -
E/O APPEAR
Vol./Book 0000000
08/18/2005 -
REEL 3987/045
Vol./Book 0000000
08/25/2005 -
M/MODIFY T/O
Vol./Book 0000000
08/25/2005 -
ENTRY OF APPEARANCE
Vol./Book 0000000
08/25/2005 -
FRIEDMAN BRADLEY A
Vol./Book 0000000
09/12/2005 DISMISSAL FOR WANT OF PROSECUTION (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer FOWLER, CRAIG)
09/19/2005 -
REEL 3987/044
Vol./Book 0000000
09/19/2005 -
E/O ENFORCE
Vol./Book 0000000
09/23/2005 TEST RESULTS
10/27/2005 MOTION HEARING (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer ELDER, JOHN)
10/27/2005 TEST RESULTS
10/27/2005 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S RECOMMENDATION
02/09/2006 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
02/22/2006 ORDER - SOCIAL STUDY
Vol./Book 4137, Page 27, 1 pages
03/14/2006 PRETRIAL (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer FOWLER, CRAIG)
03/28/2006 TEST RESULTS
04/03/2006 TEST RESULTS
04/07/2006 TEST RESULTS
SARAH MALESKY
06/29/2006 SOCIAL STUDY
07/11/2006 BENCH TRIAL (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer FOWLER, CRAIG)
07/11/2006 PROVE UP (8:30 AM) (Judicial Officer FOWLER, CRAIG)
hold for decree
07/11/2006 MOTION - CONTINUANCE
10/06/2006 CORRESPONDENCE - LETTER TO FILE
COPY OF 10 DAY LETTER
10/26/2006 CERT COPY WAGE WITHHOLD TO EMPLOYER
- 10/30/06 C/C MAILED EMPLY - 11/02/06 EMPLY O/EXECUTED
Vol./Book 13141, Page 0, 1 pages
10/26/2006 REPORT TO AUSTIN
RPT TO DRO
10/26/2006 ORDER - EMPLOYERS TO WITHHOLD
Vol./Book 5188, Page 154, 1 pages
12/07/2006 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
02/02/2007 MOTION - POST JUDGMENT (WITH FEE) (OCA and REOPEN CASE)
M/ENFORCE & MODIFY
02/02/2007 ISSUE CITATION
02/02/2007 ISSUE NOTICE
02/05/2007
CITATION
MOTION FOR ENFORCEMENT AND MODIFICATION OF POSSESSION OR ACCESS AND ORDER TO APPEAR
MALESKY, SARAH
Served 02/06/2007
02/05/2007
NOTICE
MALESKY, SARAH
Served 02/06/2007
02/05/2007 ORDER - APPEAR
Vol./Book 5323, Page 116, 1 pages
03/19/2007 CONTEMPT/ENFORCEMENT (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
03/19/2007 ORIGINAL ANSWER - GENERAL DENIAL
03/19/2007 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
NOTICE OF DISMISSAL
03/26/2007 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
04/05/2007 TEST RESULTS
05/21/2007 CONTEMPT/ENFORCEMENT (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
05/25/2007 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
07/12/2007 CORRESPONDENCE - LETTER TO FILE
NOTICE OF DISMISSAL
07/16/2007 TEST RESULTS
08/02/2007 *DISMISSAL FOR WANT OF PROSECUTION (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
07/12/2007 Reset by Court to 08/02/2007
Result: DISMISSED
08/03/2007 ORDER - AFTER JUDGMENT MOTION DISPOSED
DWP
Vol./Book 5597, Page 182, 1 pages
08/13/2007 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
NOTICE OF CHANGE OF EMPLOYMENT
08/20/2007 MOTION - REINSTATE
09/05/2007 CERT COPY WAGE WITHHOLD TO EMPLOYER
- 09/10/07 C/C MAILED EMPLY - 09/12/07 EMPLY O/EXECUTED
Vol./Book 14190, Page 0, 1 pages
09/17/2007 MOTION HEARING (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer TEN EYCK, C. ANDREW)
REINSTATE
09/17/2007 ORDER - REINSTATE (POST JUDG MOTION) (OCA)
Vol./Book 5667, Page 9, 1 pages
11/16/2007 MOTION - POST JUDGMENT (WITH FEE) (OCA and REOPEN CASE)
11/16/2007 ISSUE NOTICE
11/16/2007 ISSUE CITATION
02/07/2008 *DISMISSAL FOR WANT OF PROSECUTION (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
11/01/2007 Reset by Court to 01/10/2008
01/10/2008 Reset by Court to 02/07/2008
Result: DISMISSED
02/07/2008 ORDER - AFTER JUDGMENT MOTION DISPOSED
DWP
Vol./Book 5897, Page 4, 1 pages
09/16/2008 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
CHANGE OF EMPLOYER
08/04/2010 NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS
06/21/2013 ISSUE CITATION
06/21/2013 ISSUE TRO AND NOTICE
06/21/2013 MOTION - MODIFY CUSTODY (SAPCR) (OCA - POST JUDGMENT)
SAPCR
06/21/2013 ORDER - SUBSTITUTE SERVICE
Vol./Book 7833, Page 417, 1 pages
06/21/2013 ORDER - TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER
Vol./Book 7833, Page 418, 1 pages
06/24/2013
TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER
MALESKY, SARAH
Served 06/25/2013
Returned 06/26/2013
BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE
Served 06/27/2013
Returned 06/28/2013
06/24/2013
CITATION
EL/ATTY/MOD OF IN SUIT P/C REL/NO ZIP CODE
MALESKY, SARAH
Served 06/25/2013
Returned 06/26/2013
BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE
Served 06/27/2013
Returned 06/28/2013
07/01/2013 RETURN OF SERVICE
1 ATTY ISSUED SUBP D/T TO (SHANNON BURNS) EXEC 7-1-13 PPS
07/02/2013 TRO HEARING (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer TEN EYCK, C. ANDREW)
07/02/2013 DOCKET SHEET
07/10/2013 ORDER - EXTEND TRO
Vol./Book 7834, Page 48, 1 pages
07/24/2013 TRO HEARING (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer TEN EYCK, C. ANDREW)
Set for 2 hours on PGM’s request for relief. CPS case worker - ordered to reappear. Oral request for continuance made by mother granted on 7/2/13 to continue case to be heard today. In order to give parents time to hire counsel, or decide if they want to hire counsel, parties agreed to extend order to 7/24/13.
07/24/2013 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7834, Page 483, 1 pages
07/24/2013 ORDER - PAY SOCIAL STUDY FEES
Vol./Book 7834, Page 484, 1 pages
07/24/2013 ORDER - MISC.
O/FOR TESTING
Vol./Book 7834, Page 517, 1 pages
07/26/2013 MISCELLANOUS EVENT
M/PROTECT: TDFPS
07/28/2013 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7834, Page 529, 1 pages
07/28/2013 ORDER - MISC.
SUPERVISED VISITS
Vol./Book 7835, Page 009, 1 pages
07/31/2013 TEST RESULTS
08/14/2013 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
01/03/2014 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
01/08/2014 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
02/06/2014 CANCELED DISMISSAL FOR WANT OF PROSECUTION (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
BY COURT ADMINISTRATOR
03/14/2014 ORDER - FAMILY COURT SERVICES
Vol./Book 7842, Page 491, 1 pages
03/21/2014 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
03/24/2014 PRETRIAL (3:00 PM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
03/24/2014 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7843, Page 140, 1 pages
03/27/2014 MOTION - TEMPORARY ORDERS
AND NOTICE OF HEARING
04/07/2014 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
04/15/2014 TEMPORARY ORDERS HEARING (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer TEN EYCK, C. ANDREW)
04/15/2014 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
APPEAL
04/15/2014 NOTICE OF APPEAL OF AJ
04/15/2014 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7844, Page 2, 1 pages
04/29/2014 APPEAL - CONFERENCE (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
Result: HEARING HELD
04/29/2014 MOTION - TEMPORARY ORDERS
05/12/2014 ORDER - DENY
OF REQUEST FOR DE NOVO HEARING
Vol./Book 7845, Page 26, 1 pages
05/13/2014 TEMPORARY ORDERS HEARING (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer TEN EYCK, C. ANDREW)
05/13/2014 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7845, Page 54, 1 pages
05/13/2014 ORDER - MISC.
DRUG TESTING
Vol./Book 7845, Page 55, 1 pages
05/20/2014 TEST RESULTS
06/23/2014 PRETRIAL (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
Result: HEARING HELD
06/26/2014 NON-SIGNED PROPOSED ORDER/JUDGMENT
***SUBMITTED TO JUDGE***
07/08/2014 JURY DEMAND
07/09/2014 TEMPORARY ORDER
Vol./Book 7846, Page 466, 1 pages
08/12/2014 SOCIAL STUDY STATUS REPORT
09/05/2014 ORDER - MISC.
EMAIL FROM JUDGE
Vol./Book 7849, Page 209, 1 pages
10/02/2014 VACATION LETTER
10/29/2014 SOCIAL STUDY
12/02/2014 CANCELED BENCH TRIAL (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer HOCKETT, LORI CHRISMAN)
BY COURT ADMINISTRATOR
01/09/2015 PRETRIAL (1:30 PM) ()
03/20/2015 MOTION - CONTINUANCE
MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE
03/23/2015 PRETRIAL (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer COOKS, KIM)
Result: HEARING HELD
03/23/2015 ORDER - PRETRIAL
Vol./Book 7856, Page 217, 1 pages
04/01/2015 CORRESPONDENCE - LETTER TO FILE
COVER LTR TO COORDINATOR & ADDTL PRETRIAL ORDER
04/01/2015 ORDER - PRETRIAL
ADDITIONAL PRETRIAL ORDER
Vol./Book 7856, Page 390, 1 pages
04/06/2015 MOTION - SUBSTITUTE SERVICE
04/06/2015 ORDER - SUBSTITUTE SERVICE
Vol./Book 7856, Page 506, 1 pages
04/07/2015 MOTION - COMPEL
04/07/2015 MOTION - COMPEL
04/08/2015 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
Vol./Book 7856, Page 570, 1 pages
04/16/2015 MOTION HEARING (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer BEAUCHAMP, SCOTT)
04/16/2015 NOTE - CLERKS
MR. WITENBURG IS RUNNING 10-15 MINUTES LATE FOR TODAY’S MOTION HEARING.
04/16/2015 MOTION - IN LIMINE
04/16/2015 CORRESPONDENCE - LETTER TO FILE
CVR LTR FOR NOTICE OF HEARING
04/16/2015 ORDER - COMPEL
Vol./Book 7857, Page 143, 1 pages
04/16/2015 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7857, Page 144, 1 pages
04/16/2015 ASSOCIATE JUDGE’S REPORT
Vol./Book 7857, Page 145, 1 pages
04/17/2015 NOTICE OF HEARING / FIAT
Vol./Book 7857, Page 122, 1 pages
04/17/2015 WITNESS LIST
04/17/2015 EXHIBITS
04/21/2015 NOTE - CLERKS
NOTICE OF HEARING UP FOR SETTING WITH COORDINATOR
04/22/2015 MOTION HEARING (8:30 AM) (Judicial Officer COOKS, KIM)
Motion in Limine
Result: HEARING HELD
04/22/2015 ORDER - MISC.
ON M/ IN LIMINE
Vol./Book 7857, Page 290, 1 pages
04/27/2015 JURY TRIAL (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer COOKS, KIM)
Result: HEARING HELD
04/28/2015 JURY TRIAL (9:30 AM) (Judicial Officer COOKS, KIM)
Result: HEARING HELD
05/22/2015 CORRESPONDENCE - LETTER TO FILE
10 DAY LTR
06/08/2015 MOTION HEARING (9:00 AM) (Judicial Officer COOKS, KIM)
Motion To Enter
Result: HEARING HELD
06/08/2015 REPORT TO AUSTIN
06/08/2015 ORDER - AFTER JUDGMENT MOTION DISPOSED
GRANTING GRANDPARENT POSSESSION OR ACCESS
Vol./Book 7859, Page 414, 1 pages
Financial Information


ATTORNEY GENERAL ATTORNEY GENERAL
Total Financial Assessment 52.14
Total Payments and Credits 52.14
Balance Due as of 06/13/2015 0.00

02/02/2007 Transaction Assessment 10.56
06/21/2013 Transaction Assessment 21.12
08/20/2007 Transaction Assessment 9.90
11/16/2007 Transaction Assessment 10.56



MAINFRAME CONV PARTY Legacy Financial Management
Total Financial Assessment 240.00
Total Payments and Credits 240.00
Balance Due as of 06/13/2015 0.00

01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 5.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 5.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 5.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 5.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 8.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 16.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 50.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 15.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 15.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 5.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 40.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 10.00
01/27/2005 Transaction Assessment 15.00
01/27/2005 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 0009281-4050147500-00000 BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE (194.00)
05/26/2005 Transaction Assessment 8.00
05/26/2005 Transaction Assessment 8.00
05/26/2005 Transaction Assessment 15.00
05/26/2005 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 0020825-4050147500-00025 BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE (31.00)
08/09/2005 Transaction Assessment 15.00
08/09/2005 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 0027357-4050147500-00036 BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE (31.00)



MOVANT HAMMOND, JEANNINE
Total Financial Assessment 78.00
Total Payments and Credits 78.00
Balance Due as of 06/13/2015 0.00

06/21/2013 Transaction Assessment 78.00
06/21/2013 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 34944-2013-DCLK WITTENBERG, ALAN L (78.00)



PETITIONER BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE
Total Financial Assessment 137.00
Total Payments and Credits 137.00
Balance Due as of 06/13/2015 0.00

02/02/2007 Transaction Assessment 31.00
02/02/2007 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 5924-2007-DCLK BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD (31.00)
07/08/2014 Transaction Assessment 30.00
07/08/2014 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 38368-2014-DCLK BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE (30.00)
08/20/2007 Transaction Assessment 15.00
08/20/2007 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 46674-2007-DCLK BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD (15.00)
09/05/2007 Transaction Assessment 15.00
09/05/2007 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 50470-2007-DCLK BOULWARE, JAMES LANCE (15.00)
10/26/2006 Transaction Assessment 15.00
10/26/2006 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 64056-2006-DCLK BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD ATTORNEYS (15.00)
11/16/2007 Transaction Assessment 31.00
11/16/2007 PAYMENT (CASE FEES) Receipt # 65914-2007-DCLK BAILEY GALYEN & GOLD (31.00)

233 Single-handed sailor  Jun 13, 2015 2:47:21am
234 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:53:57am
IT IS ORDERED that Sarah Kate Malesky and James Lance Boulware are removed as
managing conservators of the child and that Jeannine Hammond is appointed Sole Managing
Conservator and Sarah Kate Malesky and James Lance Boulware are appointed Possessory
Conservators of the following child: B.J.B.
235 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 2:54:38am

Grandparents got custody?

236 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 2:54:46am

re: #234 Nyet

If only they had 18 more children and a reality show, this would never have happened…

237 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 2:59:41am

re: #235 Amory Blaine

Grandparents got custody?

I don’t understand the lawyer-speak, but seems so.

238 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:00:50am
However, the court may alternatively appoint a “Sole Managing Conservator” with one or more “Possessory Conservators”. In doing so, the Judge can weigh a history of domestic violence, or whether the parent has had little prior contact or relationship with the child when considering restrictions on rights and possession. The possessory conservator may be virtually eliminated from the process of making decisions concerning health, education and welfare. The sole managing conservator takes sole responsibility for a child, making all the important decisions regarding health (both mental and physical), education, and moral or religious upbringing alone.
239 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:01:33am

So yeah, grandma got the custody. Seems like the parents were always a disturbed bunch.

240 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 3:02:45am

re: #233 Single-handed sailor

Ordnance! Jeez, he should know better. There’s no “i” in that word.

241 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 3:04:05am

That’s 9 years in court.

242 Varek Raith  Jun 13, 2015 3:06:46am

re: #240 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Ordnance! Jeez, he should know better. There’s no “i” in that word.

Your being silly.
:P

243 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:10:45am

re: #242 Varek Raith

Your being silly.
:P

Yeah, he should of not written that.

244 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:13:11am

People write as they want, its there rite.

245 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:13:42am

/

246 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 3:19:56am

One sad commentary on the US is that if you type “CPS help”—child protective services help, as you might if you were a child being abused or someone who knew that a child was being abused, the first two, and all but one of the top results are about how to fight Child Protective Services.

CPS is a massively underfunded agency, as almost all our social agencies do, but they are the only hope, in most cases, for children going systematic abuse and neglect. The Foster Care system, while having its share of horror stories, has a ton of great, loving, caring parents doing what they can, and the main reason for the failures of it is because of underfunding.

247 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 3:27:14am

re: #246 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

I used to listen to Dr Laura on AFN. I would award points whenever certain terms came up: one point for “CPS”, any form of physical or substance, or “restraining order”, one point for each underage mother, and one for each child she had either before age 18 or with multiple fathers.

And three points for “incest”.

248 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 3:28:34am

re: #246 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

Our child welfare agency in Milwaukee is chronically troubled. It has an abysmal churn rate with high caseloads and low pay.

249 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 3:34:36am

re: #230 freetoken

Link at first went to a generic page. Now it is not working.

250 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 3:35:41am

re: #239 Nyet

So yeah, grandma got the custody. Seems like the parents were always a disturbed bunch.

Yeah, the final order says Mom has a history of drug use and poor supervision of the kid, and Dad was in the habit of assaulting Grandma.

251 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:36:50am

It’s nice to see the Dems show some spine; if only they did it more against the Republicans.

252 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:42:51am

c-span.org

Massie (R-KY)

FIRST OF ALL, LIKE MY COLLEAGUE, I’VE READ THE T.P.P., I’VE BEEN DOWN TO THE CONFIDENTIAL ROOM AND IT’S A VERY THICK DOCUMENT. THERE ARE TWO BOUND VOLS AND THERE’S A BINDER THAT GOES WITH ITS, AS SORT OF A GUIDE. BUT WHAT STRUCK ME THE MOST ABOUT THIS T.P.P. DOCUMENT IS THE ENORMITY OF IT. MY STAFF AREN’T EVEN ALLOWED TO READ THE DOCUMENT, WE’RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET WHILE WE’RE IN THERE. WHEN WE’RE LOOKING AT THE DOCUMENT. NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE NOTES FROM THE ROOM. AND THIS DOCUMENT REFERENCES OTHER BOUND DOCUMENTS. SO HOW COULD I POSSIBLY, ONE PERSON, BY MYSELF IN A CONFIDENTIAL ROOM, HOW COULD I POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT SOME OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THIS TRADE AGREEMENT WOULD BE IF I CAN’T UNDERSTAND THE DOCUMENT? IF I’M NOT ALLOWED THE RESOURCES TO FULLY ANALYZE THIS DOCUMENT? AND I WOULD — I WANT THERE TO BE MORE DAYLIGHT ON THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE WE PUT IT ON A PATH TO APPROVAL.

Republican or not, he has this one point.

253 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 3:45:39am

re: #252 Nyet

Yeah, fair enough. Personally, I never sign anything without reading it first.

254 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 3:45:47am

re: #252 Nyet

c-span.org

Massie (R-KY)

Republican or not, he has this one point.

It’s like telling sausage makers that they don’t need to know what they are putting into their products.

255 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 3:46:21am

Who’s attacking the Dallas PD? Is it Boulware?

256 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:47:34am

re: #255 Justanotherhuman

Who’s attacking the Dallas PD? Is it Boulware?

Yep.

257 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:49:50am

re: #254 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If you knew how the sausage was made, would you eat it? /

258 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 3:52:07am

re: #255 Justanotherhuman

Who’s attacking the Dallas PD? Is it Boulware?

Yep. Mr. Boulware apparently lost custody of his kid awhile back, and he’s apparently now gone out of his damned mind.

The one thing that stands out is that he might have accomplices. Maybe. If he does, what?…….did he find some other guys that lost custody? Is it really so easy to find others with extreme anti-government views?

Oh wait…….this is in Texas. Never mind. Of course people like that are easy to find - hell, it’s probably harder to find someone without those kind of views.

259 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:54:07am

re: #258 Dr Lizardo

Let’s not go the “lost his mind” route. He might be very conscious of what he is doing.

260 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:55:04am

And I mean this response:

TLS
@TheLasersShadow
Libertarian, Militia, Sovereign and anything else the government hates. #Geopolitics #Cybersecurity #Freedom

261 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 3:55:24am

Did Boulware buy this van?

facebook.com

262 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 3:55:44am

re: #260 Nyet

“Can we please not spend days on this good white nut? Let’s focus on the real thugs instead!”

263 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 3:56:49am

re: #259 Nyet

Let’s not go the “lost his mind” route. He might be very conscious of what he is doing.

By ‘lost his mind’, I mean totally gone off the deep end. I’m sure he knows very well what he’s doing - an incident like this seems very well prepared. Well, maybe not getting trapped in a Jack-In-The-Box parking lot.

264 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:00:03am

Quoth the patriot…

265 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:02:12am
266 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:03:22am

re: #263 Dr Lizardo

Well. some are going to take those comments from Judge Kim Cooks’ FB page from him as signs of “mental illness”. I see them as stupidity.

facebook.com

267 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:05:21am

You knew this was coming.

268 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:08:54am

I swear, the van does resemble the one sold on FB:

…

269 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:09:06am

Heh, this guy is funny and has a great twi background pic.

270 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 4:14:10am

I guess they only come out at night….

271 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:14:30am

Suddenly…

Cheri
@Oxco
#TCOT, Christian, wife, mother, nurse, believe in our Constitution #IStandWithIsrael Exposing #mediabias #vetthemedia. Will not FB or IM

272 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:18:20am

Oh, this guy from above again.

273 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:19:47am

Racial privilege is when you don’t have to worry about a terrorist’s race.

274 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:22:26am
275 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:22:41am

re: #272 Nyet

Oh, brother! IEDs and direct attack by van is just “revenge”.

Revenge is a motive, asswipe.

276 goddamnedfrank  Jun 13, 2015 4:23:47am
277 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:25:16am

re: #276 goddamnedfrank

And send SWAT out to his neighborhood to stake him out.

What? They didn’t?

278 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 4:26:28am

OT, but I just discovered Marc Staggers.

Just damn.

…

and here he is live:

…

Song starts at 1:20

279 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 4:26:41am

re: #272 Nyet

what happened tonight does not appear to be a terror attack but revenge.
Understand the difference.

9/11 was “revenge” for US troops defiling the Holy Land

280 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:27:50am

re: #279 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Heh.

281 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 4:28:53am

re: #276 goddamnedfrank

Fellow white peeps - If a black man shot at cops w/ machine guns from an armored vehicle they’d bring out heavy artillery. #DallasPDShooting

Heavy artillery? Hell, more like this:

…

282 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 4:29:13am

re: #252 Nyet

c-span.org

Massie (R-KY)

Republican or not, he has this one point.

The control of the document doesn’t sound like it is any different than other compartmentalized info. The government is full of this kind of stuff.

If senators don’t like the TPP they can vote against it. Once the negotiations are done then the US Senate can turn it down. Heaven knows they turn down or refuse to ratify lots of agreements (like the LotS.)

283 William Lewis  Jun 13, 2015 4:30:23am

If it were black men shooting in Dallas, there wouldn’t be enough left to pick up with a stick and a spoon this morning. SMH…

284 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:31:00am

While twitter-tripping I came upon this 2-week-old opinion piece from NYT that pulls no punches: Israel’s Charade of Democracy

While one could (and should) nitpick about the title - after all, Palestinians are not citizens, so formally yes, it’s a democracy and not a charade, but the issues that the author discusses are only too real.

285 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:32:15am

re: #282 freetoken

They should be able not only to read, but also to analyze it. Seems like a no-brainer. (And yes, I’m aware that many, if not most bills go unread…)

286 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 4:34:22am

Waking up and turning on the news here in DFW is always interesting.

287 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 4:35:27am

re: #285 Nyet

Yes, but in this case, if the Senate really cares (and I am not sure they do or if this is just all theatre), their option is pretty clear. Just vote the TPP down. Refuse to ratify it. Declare it null as far as a US Treaty. They can do that, if they really want to.

Or maybe they are just jockeying for TV time?

288 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:37:30am

re: #287 freetoken

“Or maybe they are just jockeying for TV time?”

They’re always doing that.

289 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:37:59am

re: #287 freetoken

We’re talking past each other in this instance. I’m saying that in order to make up one’s mind one should be able to analyze the bill. You’re writing on the assumption that the mind is already made up. Which may or may not be true for individual senators, but which doesn’t address the fair point above.

290 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:38:34am
291 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 4:41:50am

re: #285 Nyet

They should be able not only to read, but also to analyze it. Seems like a no-brainer. (And yes, I’m aware that many, if not most bills go unread…)

This is not a bill. This is a proposed treaty that is still being negotiated. It’s secret because the administration doesn’t want these brainless goobers sticking their noses into the ongoing negotiations and bitching up the detail.

If and when the treaty has been fully agreed on by all parties and congress is called upon to ratify it or not, they will get a chance to read it. But they won’t.

292 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 4:45:29am

re: #290 Justanotherhuman

[Embedded content]

Broken windows, OH THE HORROR!

Watching local coverage here you would be lead to believe that those guys are now hunkered down with a few atomic bombs

293 freetoken  Jun 13, 2015 4:48:56am

re: #289 Nyet

Well, I think more minds are made up than perhaps you do.

The TPP was negotiated with American interests in mind. And that means American businesses.

The same ones that contribute to US Senators’ campaigns (regardless of party.)

Publicly complaining about the TPP is political theatre for the xenophobes on the right as well as special interest panderers of all stripes.

Maybe the whole TPP is an unworkable mess. In which case I think the Senate ought to throw it out.

Yet I do think that these international agreements keep getting bigger and more complicated for a reason - because international relationships are getting more complicated. We’re all sleeping in each other’s beds, so to speak.

And if that means that negotiations have to be tightly controlled for fear that too many cooks will spoil the broth then that might be the price to be paid.

Personally I’m quite ambivalent about the whole thing. When I look at fundamentally good and important agreements, like the LotS that I mentioned, being ignored by the Senate I concluded that it is not much good to get up in arms about these agreements.

After Gore negotiated in Kyoto he couldn’t even get enough of his own Senators to vote to open up the bill in the Senate, when the Democrats really did still control the Senate.

The Senate is a good ol’ boys club and I don’t trust it to do much more than to protect its own institution. Cynical that might sound, but the Senate is one of the least democratic bodies I think you’ll find in the so-called Western Democracies.

So, wordy this may be, I maintain that the US Senate has by and large already agreed among itself, in its backrooms, of how they want this thing to go down.

294 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 4:51:24am

In other, totally unrelated, news:

Abbott to sign gun bills; open carry, campus carry expected at top of stack

trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com

295 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:53:10am

re: #291 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

The fear and misinformation about this trade deal is palpable on the right and the left—for difference reasons, of course. The right knee-jerks at anything proposed by Pres Obama, and the left sees it as “betrayal”. I hate to say it, but a lot of the oppo from the Dems has been engineered by old-style trade unions who have done jackshit to organize the new working class of retail and service workers. Not one time, during my many years of working in offices, did I see any efforts by organizers to try getting unions in for rank and file workers.

296 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 4:53:54am

re: #294 b.d.

In other, totally unrelated, news:

trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com

Abbott to sign gun bills; open carry, campus carry expected at top of stack

How about campus armored car?

297 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:53:56am

re: #291 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

This is not a bill. This is a proposed treaty that is still being negotiated. It’s secret because the administration doesn’t want these brainless goobers sticking their noses into the ongoing negotiations and bitching .

In which case they are fully justified in voting against it.

298 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 4:55:48am

re: #296 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

How about campus armored car?

Shame that open carry isn’t law yet so a bunch or random, armed, 2nd Amendment loving patriotic citizens could go down to police headquarters and just look around.

//

299 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 4:58:10am

If only there were some good guys with guns hanging around DPD Headquaters.

//

300 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 4:58:16am

re: #297 Nyet

Nyet.

Treaties are one thing the Pres has full authority to negotiate and present to them at the proper time. If you think a senator actually reads a bill her- or himself, no, they don’t. This is why they have staff who read it and report anything they know their boss might oppose.

301 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 4:58:53am

And btw, Warren, Sanders, Pelosi et al. are not brainless goobers.

302 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:01:38am

re: #298 b.d.

It’s just part of the RWNJ plan to take over eventually. Arming everyone is the goal.

If TX does ever get taken over by these idiots, they only have themselves to blame.

303 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:02:41am

re: #301 Nyet

And btw, Warren, Sanders, Pelosi et al. are not brainless goobers.

Well, I was talking about that gomer from Kentucky that was complaining about not being able to publicize the details of the treaty…but if Warren, Pelosi, Sanders, et. al. think that a treaty still in progress is a bill that they can vote up or down, that shows a serious misunderstanding of how the government works.

304 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:03:31am

re: #73 William Lewis

Not old enough to be around for them. Studied them in High School a lot and did a fun report on the Port Huron Statement once upon a lifetime ago…

It’s not quite that SDS.re: #240 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Ordnance! Jeez, he should know better. There’s no “i” in that word.

Bless you.

305 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 5:05:28am

re: #302 Justanotherhuman

It’s just part of the RWNJ plan to take over eventually. Arming everyone is the goal.

If TX does ever get taken over by these idiots, they only have themselves to blame.

They really are setting up all of this just as one would if one truly wanted to TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!

306 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:06:41am

re: #300 Justanotherhuman

Nyet.

Treaties are one thing the Pres has full authority to negotiate and present to them at the proper time. If you think a senator actually reads a bill her- or himself, no, they don’t. This is why they have staff who read it an report anything they know their boss might oppose.

I’m fully aware of it and wrote as much above. And yet the Congress has a say in it, as you know, if only because we’re writing under OP which says the House derailed the treaty at this point (it is of course not the end). So whether you or I like it or don’t, they have a say and if they can’t even analyze the thing properly, because they’re held for brainless goobers, they are justified in voting against on just this point. Because they have the authority to do so.

307 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:07:52am

re: #303 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Massey was talking about how even his aides weren’t granted access, not that he wanted to publicize it.

308 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 13, 2015 5:09:55am

re: #304 Decatur Deb

It’s not quite that SDS.

Bless you.

I once worked in a building in which the elevator had this sign:

“Pursuant to City Ordnance {whatever}, smoking is not permitted in this elevator.”

We talked about, but never got around to making a sign saying, “Well, you shouldn’t be smoking near ordnance anyway. Duh!”

309 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:10:29am

re: #296 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

How about campus armored car?

With an automatic handicap parking sticker.

310 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:11:51am

re: #307 Nyet

Massey was talking about how even his aides weren’t granted access, not that he wanted to publicize it.

Bullshit. He was bitching that he wasn’t allowed to be online while he was reading it, or to take notes. That can only mean that he wanted to cherry-pick bits and pieces that could be spun to look bad.

311 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:14:34am

re: #308 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

I once worked in a building in which the elevator had this sign:

“Pursuant to City Ordnance {whatever}, smoking is not permitted in this elevator.”

We talked about, but never got around to making a sign saying, “Well, you shouldn’t be smoking near ordnance anyway. Duh!”

Had an employee argue with me over the spelling, to the point that she got out a dictionary and showed me the entry for a law/regulation. Sadly, the stuff we were working on was HE rounds.

312 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:14:43am

The alternative suggestion - that the House must have voted for it - implies that it should play the role of a rubber stamp.

POTUS is certainly acting within his authority - but so did the House.

313 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:16:07am

re: #310 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Bullshit. He was bitching that he wasn’t allowed to be online while he was reading it, or to take notes. That can only mean that he wanted to cherry-pick bits and pieces that could be spun to look bad.

No, it means having means to look things up quickly, as is necessary for research.

314 lawhawk  Jun 13, 2015 5:17:48am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Turned on the news and first thing reported is gun battle and siege of Dallas PD HQ? With suspects in an armored vehicle.

Ummm. Dafuq?

Oh, and police then discovered multiple explosive devices that they safely detonated.

And there was a car chase and now a siege/standoff in a town outside Dallas.

How’s all that open carry and good guys with guns working out Texas? How’s that sovereign citizen movement working out (and I’m guessing here, given that some of the statements apparently made relate to how the suspect(s) had a kid taken away, how they were called domestic terrorists, etc.) Alternatively, they could be some militia movement.

No odds will be given on whether these suspect(s) will be taken alive by cops who have been shot at or even rammed with armored vehicle, and who were targeted with bombs. Greater chance of survival than some unarmed black people who did nothing wrong - Tamir Rice for instance who was playing with a cap gun in a park and gunned down by trigger happy cops.

315 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:19:19am

re: #314 lawhawk

Be fair now, the cops are trying to kill them.

316 lawhawk  Jun 13, 2015 5:20:55am

re: #297 Nyet

A vote that is based on what exactly? Bits and pieces of an incomplete deal. This wasn’t a ratification vote, but a procedural one taken in the hopes of embarassing the president.

It worked.

But here’s the thing - the same interest groups that oppose the TPP also oppose NAFTA, even though NAFTA ended up improving and expanding trade in North America.

317 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 5:21:18am

re: #312 Nyet

The alternative suggestion - that the House must have voted for it - implies that it should play the role of a rubber stamp.

POTUS is certainly acting within his authority - but so did the House.

The house would be in its authority to pass a bill mandating that federal school standards be changed to “Everyone learns everything there is to know about custard” and any school not meeting that standard gets denied federal funds.

Or a vote saying that fat people are ugly and we should shun them.

Whether something is within the allowed power of the house doesn’t really mean anything.

318 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:21:34am

re: #307 Nyet

Can you imagine how much would be leaked by these goobers if they were allowed access to the negotiations? I trust them far less than I do Pres Obama.

319 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 5:26:47am

The DPD shooter is holed up at a Jack-In-A-Box which is a good place to be unless he gets hungry.

BBL, hoping that the DFW government overthrow revolution stays away from the gym until I’m gone.

320 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:27:29am

re: #313 Nyet

No, it means having means to look things up quickly, as is necessary for research.

I don’t know how many different ways I can say this. The Senate does not negotiate treaties, the Executive Branch does. If and when the treaty is finalized, they will be able to read it in its entirety and to vote yes or no on it. Until then, the incomplete and fluid details of the treaty are quite frankly none of their business. They would never dream of claiming a right to stick their noses into treaty negotiations if there were a Republican in the White House.

321 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:30:25am

re: #318 Justanotherhuman

Can you imagine how much would be leaked by these goobers if they were allowed access to the negotiations? I trust them far less than I do Pres Obama.

Let’s not make the mistake of confusing ought and is. If you’re arguing that the House shouldn’t have that power in the first place, I may even agree with you. They do however. And they’re supposed to vote consciously and not blindly rubber-stamp. So this point made by Massey is entirely fair as it concerns the decision-making process directly: if the House has this power, it should be able to make an informed vote. If information access is restricted, and an informed vote is not possible, the House is justified in not making an uninformed vote.

322 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:31:17am

re: #320 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

You may be confusing the House and the Senate.

323 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:31:57am

re: #320 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I don’t know how many different ways I can say this. The Senate does not negotiate treaties, the Executive Branch does. If and when the treaty is finalized, they will be able to read it in its entirety and to vote yes or no on it. Until then, the incomplete and fluid details of the treaty are quite frankly none of their business. They would never dream of claiming a right to stick their noses into treaty negotiations if there were a Republican in the White House.

Yes. It’s necessary to keep discussion of the procedural politics separate from the arguable value of the specifics of any proposed agreement. There is a bit of a “shot across the bow” in the House Dems’ balking.

324 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:32:31am

re: #317 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

I’m not really sure how this response addresses anything I wrote.

325 lawhawk  Jun 13, 2015 5:33:24am

re: #315 Decatur Deb

Be fair now, the cops are trying to kill them.

In a standoff and negotiating with them now; shots were exchanged after the armored vehicle rammed a police car.

326 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:34:25am

re: #325 lawhawk

In a standoff and negotiating with them now; shots were exchanged after the armored vehicle rammed a police car.

I definitely want these yahoos alive and explaining themselves.

327 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:35:25am

re: #322 Nyet

You may be confusing the House and the Senate.

You’re confusing a treaty under negotiation with a bill to ratify a completed treaty or not.

328 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:36:39am

re: #326 Decatur Deb

I definitely want these yahoos alive and explaining themselves.

If they’re all killed, I’m sure it will have been to hide the fact that they’re jihadis.

329 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:37:04am

re: #319 b.d.

Hope you don’t have to use this route.

330 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 5:37:35am

re: #321 Nyet

What the democrats actually rejected was a bill that they actually favor.

331 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:38:17am

Robot still functional.

332 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:38:35am

re: #327 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

You’re confusing a treaty under negotiation with a bill to ratify a completed treaty or not.

Not really.

333 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:39:06am

re: #330 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

What the democrats actually rejected was a bill that they actually favor.

I know.

334 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:39:28am

re: #331 Justanotherhuman

Robot still functional.

[Embedded content]

It’s still attempted cybercide.

335 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:40:05am
336 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 5:41:35am

re: #332 Nyet

Not really.

Yes, really. Explain to me how you think the details of an incomplete treaty are any of Congress’ business until it’s completed.

337 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 5:41:38am

A stand off at a fast food joint could go on for days.

338 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 5:42:15am

Daylight come an’ me wanna walk the dog. BBL.

339 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:42:42am

re: #337 Amory Blaine

Depends on whether or not the perps stocked enough Dr Pepper and Cheetos in the van.

341 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 5:45:45am

re: #333 Nyet

I know.

I really have no clue what point you’re trying to make, then. They didn’t vote on the bill. What they did vote on—and against—was something they do understand.

342 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 5:47:50am

re: #340 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing

343 Rev_Arthur_Icantbreatheing  Jun 13, 2015 5:49:42am

re: #342 Justanotherhuman

That is a serious break! Amazing that he finished the concert. Break a leg, Dave!

344 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 5:53:11am

re: #336 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yes, really. Explain to me how you think the details of an incomplete treaty are any of Congress’ business until it’s completed.

Already have, above. For better or for worse they do have to make decisions relevant to the treaty at this stage, such as whether to fast track it. You’re free to argue that it’s a flaw in the system. But since they do have to make them, they’re entitled to information. Saying that they would leak etc. really misses the point. Maybe they would, and it would be bad, so that’s the flaw in the system. So the system has to be changed, good. But s the system is as it is, they still should be able to make informed decisions.

345 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 5:55:12am

re: #344 Nyet

They dodged the decision on whether to fast-track it by doing this; they didn’t make the decision.

346 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 6:02:20am

What too often passes for analysis is mere opinion.

No facts are harmed in this process, just ignored. //

347 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 6:12:04am

re: #346 Justanotherhuman

What too often passes for analysis is mere opinion.

No facts are harmed in this process, just ignored. //

Very true, if somewhat ironic. //

Seeing as my phone refused to post my reply to Obdi, I’ll now have to retype it.

348 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 6:14:52am

re: #344 Nyet

Already have, above. For better or for worse they do have to make decisions relevant to the treaty at this stage, such as whether to fast track it. You’re free to argue that it’s a flaw in the system. But since they do have to make them, they’re entitled to information. Saying that they would leak etc. really misses the point. Maybe they would, and it would be bad, so that’s the flaw in the system. So the system has to be changed, good. But s the system is as it is, they still should be able to make informed decisions.

No. They. Do. Not.

Their decision whether or not to fast track the treaty has only to do with their (lack of) confidence in the President and his team, not the content of the treaty, which—again, I don’t know how many different ways I can say this—is not yet a treaty at this point.

If and when it becomes a treaty, then they can vote it up or down, after carefully reading and analyzing it. (As if!)

349 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 6:16:04am

re: #341 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

I really have no clue what point you’re trying to make, then. They didn’t vote on the bill. What they did vote on—and against—was something they do understand.

You very well know that voting on TPA is a part of a larger set of decision concerning TPP. So yes, they understand what fasttracking is. In addition to that they also have to know what is it that they’re supposed to fasttrack. This would seem so obvious that I’m not sure what the source of your confusion is.

350 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 6:17:52am

re: #348 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yes, it also has to do with the proposed content of the treaty, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

351 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 6:19:12am

re: #350 Nyet

Yes, it also has to do with the proposed content of the treaty, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

OK, I give up—you have a skull of granite.

352 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 6:22:35am

re: #351 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

OK, I give up—you have a skull of granite.

Just because I don’t accept your claims which you don’t bother to support with facts and have to resort to insults instead, doesn’t mean that I am the one with a granite head.

353 Eventual Carrion  Jun 13, 2015 6:24:32am

re: #319 b.d.

The DPD shooter is holed up at a Jack-In-A-Box which is a good place to be unless he gets hungry.

BBL, hoping that the DFW government overthrow revolution stays away from the gym until I’m gone.

A couple greasy Jack-in-the-Box super tacos at 2:30 am hits the spot :-)

354 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 6:32:34am

I really love how some internet users want to dictate to the lawmakers what sort of information that are allowed to take into account, and what not.

355 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 6:36:55am

“The Senate’s Role in Treaties”, etc.

senate.gov

The Constitution provides that the president “shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur” (Article II, section 2). The Constitution’s framers gave the Senate a share of the treaty power in order to give the president the benefit of the Senate’s advice and counsel, check presidential power, and safeguard the sovereignty of the states by giving each state an equal vote in the treatymaking process. As Alexander Hamilton explained in Federalist no. 75, “the operation of treaties as laws, plead strongly for the participation of the whole or a portion of the legislative body in the office of making them.” The constitutional requirement that the Senate approve a treaty with a two-thirds vote means that successful treaties must gain support that overcomes partisan division. The two-thirds requirement adds to the burdens of the Senate leadership, and may also encourage opponents of a treaty to engage in a variety of dilatory tactics in hopes of obtaining sufficient votes to ensure its defeat.

The Senate does not ratify treaties—the Senate approves or rejects a resolution of ratification. If the resolution passes, then ratification takes place when the instruments of ratification are formally exchanged between the United States and the foreign power(s). More

356 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 6:39:52am

re: #146 Nyet

Frankly, who else would that be with armored vans and stuff, in Texas.

The previous time we had an attempted terrorist attack in Texas it was two Daesh sympathizers. And they were both wearing body armor, though it didn’t help them since the cop who shot them was a former SWAT officer who knew where to target them to bypass their armor.

357 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 6:39:54am

re: #349 Nyet

You very well know that voting on TPA is a part of a larger set of decision concerning TPP. So yes, they understand what fasttracking is. In addition to that they also have to know what is it that they’re supposed to fasttrack. This would seem so obvious that I’m not sure what the source of your confusion is.

I’m confused because you seem to think they voted on fast tracking, but they didn’t. They had the opportunity, had they voted on this issue, to vote on fast-tracking, and reject it, but they didn’t do that.

If they want to reject fast-tracking, and preserve the ability to add amendments, they can do that by voting on it—which would effectively kill the treaty. They could also vote to allow fast-tracking and then reject the treaty. These are all things they can do. When it comes time to actually accept the treaty, they will definitely be able to read it. What they are doing now is not voting on the treaty.

The thing that the democrats are trying to block is giving the president authority to submit trade bills to congress without amendment. It has nothing to do with whether or not they are able to read this particular treaty before it is presented to them. They will obviously, when voting on the actual treaty, be able to read it (well, the Senate will).

358 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 6:44:36am

re: #351 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

re: #352 Nyet

Cool it with the insult flinging, please.

359 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 6:44:59am
360 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 6:46:47am

Ugh, please refresh #359.

361 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 6:49:55am

Live video: Dallas Police Chief David O. Brown provides updates on the shootout at Dallas Police headquarters - @NBCNews

362 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 6:53:59am
363 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 6:59:09am

re: #362 Amory Blaine

What’s with the Awful Connery Picture?

364 Amory Blaine  Jun 13, 2015 6:59:56am

I’m watching Zardoz right now. :P

365 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 7:07:20am

I’m wondering how that idiot in Dallas was able to plant so many IEDs without being detected?

366 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 7:12:02am

re: #365 Justanotherhuman

I’m wondering how that idiot in Dallas was able to plant so many IEDs without being detected?

He was a heavily-armed white guy with a mysterious bag. It’s not like he was a black teenager with a bag of Skittles—that would have gotten their attention!

367 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 7:17:37am

re: #357 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

I’m confused because you seem to think they voted on fast tracking, but they didn’t.

They voted on a measure relevant to the TPP. That’s all that matters for my argument,

They had the opportunity, had they voted on this issue, to vote on fast-tracking, and reject it, but they didn’t do that.

From this and from #345 it seems you have missed the wholly theoretical character of the discussion. It has nothing to do with how they actually voted and what their real motivations were. The point under discussion is whether voting in such a way that doesn’t help the easy passage of TPP because of the deliberately limited access to the info about TPP is justified, given the particular legal realities in the US.

368 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 7:17:39am

re: #366 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

He was a heavily-armed white guy with a mysterious bag. It’s not like he was a black teenager with a bag of Skittles—that would have gotten their attention!

It’s Texas, even the liberals are heavily armed.

369 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 7:17:52am

Luckovich is on fire lately:

370 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 7:21:05am

re: #369 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Luckovich is on fire lately:

[Embedded content]

There’s a difference: Even including accidents and suicides, guns are much less likely to kill their users than cigarettes.

371 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 7:29:20am

re: #367 Nyet

They voted on a measure relevant to the TPP. That’s all that matters for my argument,

Your argument is that they need to be able to read the entire TPP to vote on it. They are not voting on the TPP.

The point under discussion is whether voting in such a way that doesn’t help the easy passage of TPP because of the deliberately limited access to the info about TPP is justified, given the particular legal realities in the US.

Right. If they don’t, when the TPP is presented to them, want to vote to approve it, they don’t have to. They also don’t have to vote to approve the fast-tracking of the TPP. But complaining they can’t read the TPP and saying that’s a reason to not vote for fast-tracking it, or using tactics to prevent fast-tracking of it, isn’t justified because if they don’t want to ratify the TPP when it is presented to them they can vote against it then, and at that point they will be able to read it. They can then say “Well, if you’d let us put amendments on it we would have voted for it, but you didn’t so we’re not ratifying it” or just “Fuck this treaty, we’re not ratifying it”.

372 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 7:29:59am

The Dallas PD attack is Obama’s attempt to distract attention from the christening of the USS Gabrielle Giffords.

gawker.com

(It’s a good news/bad news story, lifted from Gawker.)

373 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 7:30:20am

It boils down to this: the WH is not obligated to provide them with an access to the treaty, but they’re also not obligated to help the WH, incl. if they think it should provide such an access.

374 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 7:34:13am

re: #371 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

Your argument is that they need to be able to read the entire TPP to vote on it. They are not voting on the TPP.

You’re being unnecessary technical to win useless points. In the end it’s all about the TPP. Sorry.

I’m writing in the spirit of the OP:

You’ve probably heard that the House of Representatives (led by Democrats this time) rejected President Obama’s Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal today.

—-

Right. If they don’t, when the TPP is presented to them, want to vote to approve it, they don’t have to. They also don’t have to vote to approve the fast-tracking of the TPP. But complaining they can’t read the TPP and saying that’s a reason to not vote for fast-tracking it, or using tactics to prevent fast-tracking of it, isn’t justified because if they don’t want to ratify the TPP when it is presented to them they can vote against it then, and at that point they will be able to read it.

Non sequitur: just because it can be read later doesn’t mean that the content is irrelevant for the the earlier decisions, such as about the fast-tracking.

375 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)  Jun 13, 2015 7:37:58am

re: #374 Nyet

You’re being unnecessary technical to win useless points. In the end it’s all about the TPP. Sorry.

If you’re not going to accept I’m debating honestly, which I am, there’s not any point in talking to you about this.

376 darthstar  Jun 13, 2015 7:39:02am

re: #198 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

More proof of white racial superiority…

Racial, maybe, but definitely not genetic.

377 darthstar  Jun 13, 2015 7:43:25am
378 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 7:46:31am

Nyet, I do not understand what has you so concerned about the procedures going on over TPP. What does it really have to do with you other than your desire to mix it up with everyone trying to explain it to you?

379 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 7:46:48am

re: #375 Obdicut (Now with 2% less brain)

How about a deal: you don’t distort my arguments and I won’t make statements with negative implications.

I have already explained what I mean in #349. Stating wrongly once again what “my argument” allegedly is is not a good way to debate.

380 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 7:48:25am

re: #378 ObserverArt

Nyet, I do not understand what has you so concerned about the procedures going on over TPP. What does it really have to do with you other than your desire to mix it up with everyone trying to explain it to you?

I’m not greatly concerned about the procedures. I have made a simple point, this point was challenged by those concerned, I am merely replying to the subsequent comments.

381 Dark_Falcon  Jun 13, 2015 7:49:01am

re: #372 Decatur Deb

The Dallas PD attack is Obama’s attempt to distract attention from the christening of the USS Gabrielle Giffords.

gawker.com

(It’s a good news/bad news story, lifted from Gawker.)

One of the Independence-class of Littoral Combat Ship (LCS). The navy’s often given one or two of a class the name of notable politicians (as witness the Ohio-class SSBN Henry M. Jackson).

At least this ship is only going to be nicknamed the ‘Gabby’, whereas Sen. Jackson’s nickname of ‘scoop’ lends itself to more than one scatological derivative.

382 darthstar  Jun 13, 2015 7:55:21am

mrowr

383 darthstar  Jun 13, 2015 7:55:35am

fft!

384 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 7:56:54am

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

There’s a difference: Even including accidents and suicides, guns are much less likely to kill their users than cigarettes.

Cigarettes tend to kill only their users, guns can kill anyone they are pointed at…

385 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 7:57:55am

re: #384 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Cigarettes tend to kill only their users, guns can kill anyone they are pointed at…

Second-hand lead.

386 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 13, 2015 7:59:41am

re: #372 Decatur Deb

The Dallas PD attack is Obama’s attempt to distract attention from the christening of the USS Gabrielle Giffords.

gawker.com

(It’s a good news/bad news story, lifted from Gawker.)

As an ex-USN sailor I wouldn’t want a ship named after me. Ships are known by the nicknames they earn and some of them aren’t flattering.

387 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 8:04:52am

re: #386 Higgs Boson’s Mate

As an ex-USN sailor I wouldn’t want a ship named after me. Ships are known by the nicknames they earn and some of them aren’t flattering.

What was the name of that movie where James Whitmore was captain of the USS Bustard?

“Ships of [whatever this class was] are named after birds. This ship was named after the largest land bird on the continent of Europe. I will tolerate no jokes, puns, or typographical errors about the name of this ship!”

388 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 8:07:42am
389 calochortus  Jun 13, 2015 8:10:41am

re: #272 Nyet

Oh, this guy from above again.

[Embedded content]
TXIconoclast @TXIconoclast
@CallDaPaparazzi
However, what happened tonight does not appear to be a terror attack but revenge.
Understand the difference.
Geez
3:07 AM - 13 Jun 2015

Revenge is a motive. Terror is a tactic.
Understand the difference.

(Pedant off.)

390 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 8:12:03am
391 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 8:12:19am

re: #380 Nyet

I’m not greatly concerned about the procedures. I have made a simple point, this point was challenged by those concerned, I am merely replying to the subsequent comments.

But it is a part of the procedure.

In your #349 you said:

You very well know that voting on TPA is a part of a larger set of decision concerning TPP. So yes, they understand what fasttracking is. In addition to that they also have to know what is it that they’re supposed to fasttrack. This would seem so obvious that I’m not sure what the source of your confusion is.

The part in bold is not correct. Congress is not fast tracking anything. All they have done and can do is grant the president the ability to fast track the treaty.

At that point all the details and elements in the treaty are up to the president as to what is in it. In that sense congress is cut out of the process. They can not amend or filibuster elements of the treaty. So, congress for all intents does not have to know what is in it because they can’t do anything about it while it is in process any way.

Ordinarily in all others law and bill writing in this country what you are saying is true, but not in this case, because congress granted it to be that way. You seem to miss that point.

Congress cut themselves out so that the deal can be ‘fast tracked’ and not slowed by all the grandstanding, etc. that congress would be doing if in fact they were allowed to do what you say they normally do.

In a way it is saying that the other countries do not have to negotiate with congress and only the president. Sort of like saying you allow an arbitrator to make the decisions in a tough and contentious case with other nations. That arbitrator is the president. That is what makes it an ‘other’ process beyond congress’ normal responsibility.

Once the president decides the agreement is in a state that he as the US arbitrator says is fully fleshed out with the other treaty participants, then Congress gets to do their thing, but in a now limited role they agreed to: vote yes or no.

This is all allowed by law, and yes it allows the president a power that he normally does not have. And congress allows that they have no part in it other than yes or no on the final product.

Which is exactly what a lot of the LGF folks are trying to explain to you.

392 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 8:12:54am

re: #388 Justanotherhuman

See, the fact that his Boulware’s race is not repeatedly being referenced in MSM or by the police told was the indicator that he was white.

Nor is anybody asking about the role of society and the family in which he ws raised…

393 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 8:13:00am

re: #389 calochortus

Revenge is a motive. Terror is a tactic.
Understand the difference.

(Pedant off.)

Pssst. He’s an TXIconoclast, what are the dictionary definitions for him!

394 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 8:15:50am

Sheriff’s Office:

Let’s just sell this used armored van on ebay, what could possibly go wrong with that?

395 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 8:19:06am

re: #394 b.d.

Sheriff’s Office:

Let’s just sell this used armored van on ebay, what could possibly go wrong with that?

It will probably just be used by a Resonsible Gun Owner (TM) to defend his Constitutional RIghts!!!

396 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 8:20:19am

re: #395 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It will probably just be used by a Resonsible Gun Owner (TM) to defend his Constitutional RIghts!!!

It takes a good guy with an armored van to stop a bad guy with an armored van.

397 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 8:26:46am

re: #396 b.d.

It takes a good guy with an armored van to stop a bad guy with an armored van.

Do we have a NAVA???

(National Armored Van Association)

398 Great White Snark  Jun 13, 2015 8:26:56am

re: #394 b.d.

Sheriff’s Office:

Let’s just sell this used armored van on ebay, what could possibly go wrong with that?

re: #396 b.d.

It takes a good guy with an armored van to stop a bad guy with an armored van.

Facepalm…
usedarmoredvehicle.com

399 Pawn of the Oppressor  Jun 13, 2015 8:31:24am

Once again, evidence for my theory that the most dangerous animal on the planet is the adult white male… By any metric you choose - body count, shots fired, bombs dropped - our fail-hot response to any stress is to kill something. ANYTHING. It almost doesn’t even matter. And if we can’t actually kill something, we fantasize about it, or pay somebody else to do it for us.

All that paranoia and military gear for the police and all the hysteria about black people, and when do they NEED the military gear? When a white guy goes off his nut! Sad LOL at the tweet above, paraphrased - “They’re on the phone with him?? He’s white.”

I can’t wait to hear about how “troubled” he was.

Happily the PD ended this with less than a thousand rounds fired and no additional dead bodies. So, there’s that…

400 #FergusonFireside  Jun 13, 2015 8:31:37am

Reporter interviewed on NPR mentioned child custody.

‘murica

401 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 8:32:42am

re: #398 Great White Snark

Facepalm…
usedarmoredvehicle.com

Too unbelievable to not be true:

Sales offices:
Arizona, USA
Canada
Dubai
Ethiopia
Kenya
Libya
Missouri, USA
Nigeria
Texas, USA
- See more at: usedarmoredvehicle.com

SMH

402 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 8:32:50am

re: #397 ObserverArt

Do we have a NAVA???

(National Armored Van Association)

Maybe that needs to be National Armored Vehicle Association. Covers more. Say you have a car you want armored, the NAVA is there to make sure they protect your rights to do that very thing.

And we’ll probably need an amendment to the Constitution too.

“A well regulated fleet of armored vehicles, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Armored Vehicles, shall not be infringed.”

403 darthstar  Jun 13, 2015 8:33:51am
404 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 8:34:59am

re: #402 ObserverArt

Maybe that needs to be National Armored Vehicle Association. Covers more. Say you have a car you want armored, the NAVA is there to make sure they protect your rights to do that very thing.

And we’ll probably need an amendment to the Constitution too.

“A well regulated fleet of armored vehicles, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Armored Vehicles, shall not be infringed.”

mvpa.org

405 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 8:39:30am

re: #403 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I love DailyKos and have spent a good chunk of my life there but the Bernie Bubble over there has rendered that place useless.

Bernie rolling his eyes at a daytime MSNBC host is proof that he is changing the game, making inroads, bold and changing the narrative? Please.

406 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 8:44:44am

re: #391 ObserverArt

Thanks for yet another explanation :)

The part in bold is not correct. Congress is not fast tracking anything. All they have done and can do is grant the president the ability to fast track the treaty.

Again, arguing about such minor points just doesn’t seem fruitful in context. Seen from such an angle, Charles’ opening posting is also not correct, because strictly speaking nobody has rejected the TPP yet. (“I’m not dead!”) It is, however, correct in its core. So is saying “the Congress fast-tracks”, even if it only gives the authority to the Pres (which it knows he will use). To me this objection is like objecting to someone saying “This and this one voted for the war” - even if they didn’t technically vote for the war, but rather for an authorization.

Everybody is getting bogged down in these details, missing the forest for the trees.

The trees are the particular procedures, particular bills etc., where I can certainly can get something wrong or use a less than precise language.

The forest is that it is first of all up to the Congress whether to give Obama the fast-tracking authority and whether to support the supplementary bills, thus directly influencing the whole process basically before it starts.

If any particular congresswoman or -man is very skeptical about the bill because of general principles, but still wants to give it a chance, their request for reading the treaty (which they can do) and have it analyzed by aides (which they can’t) is justified.

If they’re not allowed their request, they are justified in acting on their skepticism through “unhelpful” voting (such as not granting the fast-tracking authority or not voting for the supplementary bills), citing the access refusal as the final reason.

While it can be argued that they should wait until the treaty is ready, etc., they don’t really have to. They already have an opinion, and they have already expressed willingness to examine the proposal more closely, and if they’re not granted this opportunity and choose not to “start the ignition” in the first place, I think this is a justified position, as far as politics goes.

Now, the opposition to the treaty itself may not be justified, but that’s another issue that I’m not arguing about.

I’m not sure that those who have objected to my point have understood what I’m actually saying. So while they have tried to explain something to me, it wasn’t necessarily what I was arguing against.

407 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 8:45:47am

re: #402 ObserverArt

Maybe that needs to be National Armored Vehicle Association. Covers more. Say you have a car you want armored, the NAVA is there to make sure they protect your rights to do that very thing.

And we’ll probably need an amendment to the Constitution too.

“A well regulated fleet of armored vehicles, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Armored Vehicles, shall not be infringed.”

They won’t let you tint or put one-way plastic film on the front windows of your car, because then a cop can’t see you from the outside, but they let you drive around in armored vehicles? Something ain’t right there….

408 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 8:47:10am

re: #407 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

They won’t let you tint or put one-way plastic film on the front windows of your car, because then a cop can’t see you from the outside, but they let you drive around in armored vehicles? Something ain’t right there….

ddmvpa.org

409 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 8:47:54am

re: #406 Nyet

It’s being played up as a “major defeat for Obama” at the hands of his own party. That is the part of the narrative they find so appealing.

410 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 13, 2015 8:52:21am

Bet up until now he legally owned his guns too.

411 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 8:52:42am

re: #387 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Found the movie: Nobody’s Perfect, 1968.

412 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 8:53:35am

re: #408 Decatur Deb

ddmvpa.org

I want a DUKW.

413 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 8:56:10am

re: #404 Decatur Deb

mvpa.org

Figures. Two of the clubs located in Ohio are in the area near my old hometown.

I figured one of them might have been here in the Columbus area and associated with a local military museum. They seem to have some armored vehicles parked at their facility in Groveport, a small town just south of town and near the old Rickenbacker Air Force Base.

I used to do some work with Warren Motts, the guy who started the museum off his own extensive collection of Civil War items. I went to his house one time…a centennial home outside of Groveport. He had his whole house filled with glass cases housing his collection. Some locals helped him build a new facility and it has grown a lot since I first met him.

He also has done an extensive study in old Civil War images on glass plates, etc. He was allowed to go to many battlefields (Gettysburg, Manassas Antietam, etc), and take pictures in some of the same exact locations to compare the old to the new. He did all that in the 70s and had a big show that traveled the nation during the Bicentennial year of 1976. He was a fascinating man to talk too, and learn from.

You (and Dark and others interested in war items ) might like to see some info on the museum: Motts Military Mueseum

414 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 8:57:39am

re: #412 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I want a DUKW.

About $100K, because the commercial tour operators have driven them up. Wife and I rode one from DC Ducks.

dcducks.com

My 73 Landrover FFR is surplus from the Belgian Army. Got it on eBay a dozen years ago for $3.5K.

415 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 9:02:47am

re: #413 ObserverArt

Figures. Two of the clubs located in Ohio are in the area near my old hometown.

I figured one of them might have been here in the Columbus area and associated with a local military museum. They seem to have some armored vehicles parked at their facility in Groveport, a small town just south of town and near the old Rickenbacker Air Force Base.

I used to do some work with Warren Motts, the guy who started the museum off his own extensive collection of Civil War items. I went to his house one time…a centennial home outside of Groveport. He had his whole house filled with glass cases housing his collection. Some locals helped him build a new facility and it has grown a lot since I first met him.

He also has done an extensive study in old Civil War images on glass plates, etc. He was allowed to go to many battlefields (Gettysburg, Manassas Antietam, etc), and take pictures in some of the same exact locations to compare the old to the new. He did all that in the 70s and had a big show that traveled the nation during the Bicentennial year of 1976. He was a fascinating man to talk too, and learn from.

You (and Dark and others interested in war items ) might like to see some info on the museum: Motts Military Mueseum

The museum site looks neat. An old fellow in Anniston built such a good collection that he willed it to the community, where it became the core of a very neat little history museum.

bermanmuseum.org

416 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:03:37am

OT Right now I am at Wegman’s and I am watching Hillary Clinton and if the GOP thinks they can beat her they will be in for a very rude awakening.

417 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 9:04:40am

re: #416 PhillyPretzel

OT Right now I am at Wegman’s and I am watching Hillary Clinton and if the GOP thinks they can beat her they will be in for a very rude awakening.

It’s better to assume and act like she has a 1% lead.

418 Great White Snark  Jun 13, 2015 9:08:08am

California VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 2510-2512

2510. (a) A person applying for a license to operate ambulances or
armored cars shall provide separate identification data and reports
of inspection for each vehicle as prescribed by the commissioner.
(b) No person shall operate a privately owned emergency ambulance
or armored car until the California Highway Patrol has determined
that the vehicle is in compliance with this code and regulations
adopted by the commissioner…

419 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:09:17am

re: #417 Decatur Deb

It’s better to assume and act like she has a 1% lead.

Then our awakening won’t be too rude. //

Just kidding, go Hillz. :)

420 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 9:12:29am

re: #419 Nyet

Then our awakening won’t be too rude. //

Just kidding, go Hillz. :)

Seriously afraid of complacency impacting GOTV. We run better scared.

421 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 9:14:02am

Son of a bitch. Minority Report is going to be a series on FOX?

(Why did I link to Popular Mechanics? Because I liked the subtitle.)

422 ObserverArt  Jun 13, 2015 9:14:20am

re: #406 Nyet

Thanks for yet another explanation :)

Again, arguing about such minor points just doesn’t seem fruitful in context. Seen from such an angle, Charles’ opening posting is also not correct, because strictly speaking nobody has rejected the TPP yet. (“I’m not dead!”) It is, however, correct in its core. So is saying “the Congress fast-tracks”, even if it only gives the authority to the Pres (which it knows he will use). To me this objection is like objecting to someone saying “This and this one voted for the war” - even if they didn’t technically vote for the war, but rather for an authorization.

Everybody is getting bogged down in these details, missing the forest for the trees.

The trees are the particular procedures, particular bills etc., where I can certainly can get something wrong or use a less than precise language.

The forest is that it is first of all up to the Congress whether to give Obama the fast-tracking authority and whether to support the supplementary bills, thus directly influencing the whole process basically before it starts.

If any particular congresswoman or -man is very skeptical about the bill because of general principles, but still wants to give it a chance, their request for reading the treaty (which they can do) and have it analyzed by aides (which they can’t) is justified.

If they’re not allowed their request, they are justified in acting on their skepticism through “unhelpful” voting (such as not granting the fast-tracking authority or not voting for the supplementary bills), citing the access refusal as the final reason.

While it can be argued that they should wait until the treaty is ready, etc., they don’t really have to. They already have an opinion, and they have already expressed willingness to examine the proposal more closely, and if they’re not granted this opportunity and choose not to “start the ignition” in the first place, I think this is a justified position, as far as politics goes.

Now, the opposition to the treaty itself may not be justified, but that’s another issue that I’m not arguing about.

I’m not sure that those who have objected to my point have understood what I’m actually saying. So while they have tried to explain something to me, it wasn’t necessarily what I was arguing against.

I gave it my best shot. All I can say is you are refusing to acknowledge you are wrong. You are falling for the politics of congress bitching, which is exactly why there is fast tracking in the first place.

They granted the process, they are now bitching they are not part of the process for political points. And you are biting on that bitching.

Your whole paragraph that I put in bold type is wrong. There is no arguing they should wait…they made that part of the deal from the get-go. They have to wait..period.

They can not have an opinion, because they have seen nothing to have an opinion on. They can’t examine anything because there is nothing to examine. There is no opportunity to grant and nothing to choose to start because by allowing the fast track method they have not given themselves that ability. They already granted that and approved it.

Just because you seem to want it so does not make it so and all you are doing is arguing against reality. Which makes no damn sense and is why everyone is so frustrated by your position. Which seem to be contrarian just to be contrarian, like you are bored or just wanting to start fights. Only you can answer why you are being stubborn.

Oh well. Can’t make you drink the water if you refuse. No further response from me.

423 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 9:16:09am

Off to ride the hamster bike and play Civ4.

424 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 9:16:16am

re: #417 Decatur Deb

It’s better to assume and act like she has a 1% lead.

Agreed.

I want the Dems to run hard and run scared. I don’t want them to get complacent and think that just because polls have her cleaning the GOP’s clock now that it’s going to stay that way. Aggressive GOTV has got to be part and parcel of Hillary’s campaign from the start.

425 stpaulbear  Jun 13, 2015 9:16:40am

re: #420 Decatur Deb

Seriously afraid of complacency impacting GOTV. We run better scared.

When you look at the crap that’s happening in Republican controlled states, it’s pretty easy to run scared.

426 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 9:16:41am

re: #420 Decatur Deb

Seriously afraid of complacency impacting GOTV. We run better scared.

I hope all the GOP candidates will do a good enough job of scaring everybody. They can’t keep their mouths shut for the next year. Maybe if they nominated Mittens again, he’d put enough voters to sleep that he could squeak by?

427 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:17:58am

re: #426 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

It looks like it may go that way.

428 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 9:18:46am

Nice touch mentioning the Rio Grande Valley. I like it.

429 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 9:19:53am

re: #428 Lidane

Nice touch mentioning the Rio Grande Valley. I like it.

Someone needs to tell her not to pronounce the e next time though.

:)

430 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:20:59am

re: #422 ObserverArt

I gave it my best shot. All I can say is you are refusing to acknowledge you are wrong. You are falling for the politics of congress bitching, which is exactly why there is fast tracking in the first place.

They granted the process, they are now bitching they are not part of the process for political points. And you are biting on that bitching.

You whole paragraph that I put in bold type is wrong. There is no arguing they should wait…they made that part of the deal from the get-go. They have to wait..period.

They can not have an opinion, because they have seen nothing to have an opinion on. They can’t examine anything because there is nothing to examine. There is no opportunity to grant and nothing to choose to start because by allowing the fast track method they have not given themselves that ability. They already granted that and approved it.

You are merely repeating Obdi’s mistake.

This is a purely theoretical argument. I’m not concerned about what actually has happened, which is what you’re now falling back on. The only point is about what is or is not justified in principle. In my argument there hasn’t yet been a vote on giving the fasttrack authority. The theoretical congresscritters are only about to make their decisions. I think it is clear from what I wrote.

So this is just another illustration of someone not understanding what I am writing and trying to explain something nevertheless.

431 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 9:21:05am

re: #427 PhillyPretzel

It looks like it may go that way.

I’ve thought there was at least a 50% chance of that from the get-go. It really is their only alternative. “Deep Bench” ha!!

432 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 9:22:48am

re: #429 b.d.

Someone needs to tell her not to pronounce the e next time though.

:)

LOL true. She’s got time to learn how to say it right.

433 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:27:57am

Deray was invited to Hillary’s launch.

434 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:28:40am
435 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:29:32am

Hillary is going to have to work for the Black vote. Maybe the Hispanic vote as well.

She can’t take anything for granted.

436 b.d.  Jun 13, 2015 9:30:14am

re: #433 Justanotherhuman

Deray was invited to Hillary’s launch.

[Embedded content]

Love his shirt, we should send one to Chuck.

//

437 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 9:31:04am

re: #435 Justanotherhuman

Hillary is going to have to work for the Black vote. Maybe the Hispanic vote as well.

She can’t take anything for granted.

Seeing as how the GOP has all but given up on blacks and Hispanics, it shouyld not take too much effort…

438 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 9:34:12am

re: #437 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Seeing as how the GOP has all but given up on blacks and Hispanics, it shouyld not take too much effort…

People must be moved from ‘stay home’ to ‘vote’. I don’t think there’s too much to worry about if the turnout is high enough.

439 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:34:14am
440 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:34:43am

re: #435 Justanotherhuman

True. She has to run as though she does not have anything. I think she has a darn good chance especially if the GOP puts up one of those TP types.

441 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:34:52am

re: #437 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Sure but GOTV is imperative.

442 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:35:52am

This is smart, very smart.

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton says she wants affordable college, universal child care and preschool; ‘talent is universal - you can find it anywhere - but opportunity is not’
end of alert

443 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 13, 2015 9:38:10am
444 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:38:16am

re: #442 Justanotherhuman

Yes it is. That is why I said she has a darn good chance.

445 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 9:39:33am

re: #438 wrenchwench

People must be moved from ‘stay home’ to ‘vote’. I don’t think there’s too much to worry about if the turnout is high enough.

Unless Reince does his job and runs a tight ship and keeps the party on-message, somebody will be uttering something to encourage women and minorities to get out there and prevent the GOP from actually doing the things it has accidentally let slip before the election.

446 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:39:53am

re: #430 Nyet

Oh, and that -

They can not have an opinion, because they have seen nothing to have an opinion on. They can’t examine anything because there is nothing to examine.

is simply not true and ignores my #252, which started the whole thing. Ironic, that.

447 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:41:11am

I think Deray will be in for white shock.

Torrent Brewing Co in Ames, IA
448 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:42:17am

I like some of what Bernie has to say, but I think his demographic is very narrow in the long run.

449 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:42:34am

re: #443 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sarah is not happy.

450 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:44:27am

re: #449 Nyet

Be prepared for a word salad blowout.

451 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 13, 2015 9:44:46am
452 Romantic Heretic  Jun 13, 2015 9:45:49am

re: #396 b.d.

It takes a good guy with an armored van to stop a bad guy with an armored van.

Car Wars - Where the right of way goes to the biggest guns.

453 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 13, 2015 9:46:11am

re: #449 Nyet

re: #450 PhillyPretzel

Sarah is probably deliriously happy that somebody noticed, so she can do a series of unhinged twitter and Facebook rants.

454 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 9:46:18am

re: #445 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Unless Reince does his job and runs a tight ship and keeps the part on-message, somebody will be uttering something to encourage women and minorities to get out there and keep the GOP from actually doing the things it has accidentally let slip before the election.

Rancid Prius can’t do shit. He’s just now discovered that the RNC is irrelevant and that the Koch brothers are the Republican party now, and has started impotently bitching about it.

455 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:47:16am

re: #451 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Problems and time length in getting his laptop repaired, evidently. Major stress.

456 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:47:59am

re: #450 PhillyPretzel

Be prepared for a word salad blowout.

*dons a colander*

457 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:49:20am

Gay Planet? Meaning there will no more heterosexual sex and therefore no new babies born?

I haven’t seen much evidence for that.

458 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:49:25am

re: #456 Nyet

lol :)

459 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:49:32am

Did you all see this cutie?

460 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:50:54am
461 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:51:14am

re: #459 FemNaziBitch

I hope that they take good care of the animal fox.

462 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:51:42am

re: #461 PhillyPretzel

I hope that they take good care of the animal.

They seem to be loving it very much.

463 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:51:55am

re: #459 FemNaziBitch

No, but thanks for the link.
PS: awwwww

464 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:53:00am

I guess I don’t understand this criticism.

465 urbanmeemaw  Jun 13, 2015 9:53:31am

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Amelia Earhart has always fascinated me. Thank you for posting that.

466 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:53:45am

re: #464 Nyet

Someone is being very picky about language.

467 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:54:24am

re: #466 PhillyPretzel

It sounds counterintuitive to me. People of Color include African Americans.

468 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:54:40am

Cubs vs Sox —ChicagoStyle

469 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:54:46am

re: #464 Nyet

I guess I don’t understand this criticism.

[Embedded content]

470 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 9:55:19am

round 2

471 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:55:38am
472 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:55:55am

re: #469 Justanotherhuman

I understand Deray’s point, but not the other twitterer. The phrase may be too generic, but it doesn’t exclude black people.

473 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 9:56:31am

re: #468 FemNaziBitch

I am at Wegman’s they are not letting me see it. That is okay, I can manage.

474 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 9:57:31am

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton says she would support a constitutional amendment to overturn Supreme Court decision on campaign funding
end of alert

475 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 9:58:02am

re: #447 Justanotherhuman

I think Deray will be in for white shock.

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

One of my earliest lessons about black people was from the mother of the first black girl to attend my elementary school. Her mother had the fortitude to speak to several classes of youngsters about what it meant to integrate. She said black people have one advantage, and that is they are more accustomed to being around white people in general than white people are accustomed to being around black people.

476 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 9:58:19am

re: #474 Justanotherhuman

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton says she would support a constitutional amendment to overturn Supreme Court decision on campaign funding
end of alert

Good move. She might even get some support from the center-right on that.

477 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:00:16am

re: #472 Nyet

I understand Deray’s point, but not the other twitterer. The phrase may be too generic, but it doesn’t exclude black people.

Some could feel it’s an artful exclusion of the specific to use a more general term.

478 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:00:29am

I understand why many people are not excited about Clinton, but I think she’s a great candidate on her own merits. Not “the best”, but still great.

479 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 10:01:35am

re: #471 Justanotherhuman

It is important that political leaders acknowledge race and police reform if they expect any modicum of support from black folk.

And a reasonable approch to immigration is necessary, not just for the Hispanic vote, but for the votes of anyone whose parents or grandparents were immigrants (including white folks like me whose grandparents came from Eastern Europe at the start of the last century)

480 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:02:30am

re: #478 Nyet

I understand why many people are not excited about Clinton, but I think she’s a great candidate on her own merits. Not “the best”, but still great.

I feel like the rwnjs have highlighted her merits with every shot fired in the war on women.

481 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 10:02:56am

re: #474 Justanotherhuman

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton says she would support a constitutional amendment to overturn Supreme Court decision on campaign funding
end of alert

Meanwhile: Ann Coulter: ‘Women Should Not Have The Right To Vote,’ But They ‘Can Still Write Books’

482 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 10:03:07am

re: #477 wrenchwench

Some could feel it’s an artful exclusion of the specific to use a more general term.

Sort of like the whole “Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas” conundrum, or the inevitable offense taken at “American/Canadian”?

483 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:03:34am

re: #477 wrenchwench

Some could feel it’s an artful exclusion of the specific to use a more general term.

I think that it’s pol-speak to avoid specific mentions is a given. Which is why I understand Deray’s point.

But “PoC agenda”, to use Rita’s phrasing, is still inclusive, even if arguably more “cowardly” than necessary, not exclusive.

484 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 10:03:53am

re: #478 Nyet

I understand why many people are not excited about Clinton, but I think she’s a great candidate on her own merits. Not “the best”, but still great.

I would rather not vote for HIllary, but given the current field of GOP candidates, there is little question of who I will vote for.

485 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:06:06am

re: #482 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

re: #483 Nyet

Can’t please everyone,

Also, you can’t piss off every one.

486 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:06:36am

re: #481 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Meanwhile: Ann Coulter: ‘Women Should Not Have The Right To Vote,’ But They ‘Can Still Write Books’

special place indeed
487 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:06:57am

re: #485 wrenchwench

Can’t please everyone,

Also, you can’t piss off every one.

Hold my bear and watch…/

488 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:07:01am
489 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:08:23am
490 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 10:08:25am

re: #486 FemNaziBitch

May Golda Meir and Indrira Ghandi get a chance to talk to her.

491 Justanotherhuman  Jun 13, 2015 10:08:57am

re: #475 wrenchwench

One of my earliest lessons about black people was from the mother of the first black girl to attend my elementary school. Her mother had the fortitude to speak to several classes of youngsters about what it meant to integrate. She said black people have one advantage, and that is they are more accustomed to being around white people in general than white people are accustomed to being around black people.

Yet I’ve always found that the Black community was more welcoming to me in a sincere way over the years than even white gatherings, whether it was political or just a community thing. I wouldn’t say that if it weren’t true. I can feel comfortable with just about anyone as long as they’re straight-forward.

492 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:09:27am

FREE book newsletter from the New York Times. delivered to your inbox.

493 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 10:10:15am

re: #489 FemNaziBitch

That’s very much like the look on my face when I run out of coffee.

494 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:10:33am

re: #490 PhillyPretzel

May Golda Meir and Indrira Ghandi get a chance to talk to her.

There was something the other day about Mid East (code muslim or non-christian) countries having more female leaders than the US (which we’ve had zero).

I can’t remember all of the countries.

Pakistan
India
Israel
A couple in Afrika.

495 stpaulbear  Jun 13, 2015 10:10:57am

re: #484 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I would rather not vote for HIllary, but given the current field of GOP candidates, there is little question of who I will vote for.

the ‘current field of GOP candidates’ is the inevitable result of the where the GOP has steered itself over the last 2-3 decades. The Republican party has made itself unpalatable in almost every way. It’s what they’ve done.

496 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:11:33am

re: #494 FemNaziBitch

That’s a pretty striking paradox.

497 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:12:37am

re: #495 stpaulbear

the ‘current field of GOP candidates’ is the inevitable result of the where the GOP has steered itself over the last 2-3 decades. The Republican party has made itself unpalatable in almost every way.

Agreed. I don’t buy the narrative that it happened only in the last decade, before which Dems were allegedly the real assholes. It’s been happening for decades.

498 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 10:12:42am

re: #494 FemNaziBitch

And do not forget Maggie Thatcher and Angela Merkel.

499 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 10:12:57am
500 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 10:13:17am

re: #485 wrenchwench

Can’t please everyone,

Also, you can’t piss off every one.

I just had this odd pipe dream while out to the bottle bank that Hillary could almost afford not to spend any money on her campaign:

She could run on her name recognition and news coverage alone, offer to donate any campaign contributions to a charity to help children or promote education or something and make the GOP candidate look like a pathetic money-grubber and money-waster.

That would be one thing she could do to get me to vote for her and not just against the GOP

501 FemNaziBitch  Jun 13, 2015 10:14:56am

Glenn Beck Mansplains Menstruation: It’s a ‘God Given Sadness’
FUCK YOU GLENN

502 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:15:07am

Downey kitty!

503 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 13, 2015 10:15:28am

re: #491 Justanotherhuman

Yet I’ve always found that the Black community was more welcoming to me in a sincere way over the years than even white gatherings, whether it was political or just a community thing. I wouldn’t say that if it weren’t true. I can feel comfortable with just about anyone as long as they’re straight-forward.

I grew up the only white kid on our block in Gary, Indiana, and one of only about a dozen in our entire grade school. I got picked on for being a bookish nerd, but I also had plenty of kids who stood up for me, because they had learned from their parents that it is a good thing to have educated freinds.

Then we moved to a working-class white neighborhood where I was picked on mercilessly and had nobody to stand up for me because I was a threat to their own complacent idiocy.

504 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:15:45am

re: #498 PhillyPretzel

Plus Tarja Halonen, the ex-Pres of Finland (and an LGBT activist).

Dalia Grybauskaite, President of Lithuania.

505 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:16:57am

re: #501 FemNaziBitch

Glenn Beck Mansplains Menstruation: It’s a ‘God Given Sadness’
FUCK YOU GLENN

He’ll never understand the feeling joy of knowing you’re not pregnant for sure.

506 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 13, 2015 10:17:45am

re: #504 Nyet

Plus Tarja Halonen, the ex-Pres of Finland (and an LGBT activist).

Dalia Grybauskaite, President of Lithuania.

Vigdis Finnbogadottir.

507 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 10:17:57am

re: #504 Nyet

We are a bit behind the curve on that issue. Women can rule quite well and should be supported.

508 Charles Johnson  Jun 13, 2015 10:18:08am
509 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:18:28am
510 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 10:18:37am

re: #508 Charles Johnson

lol. The pup is still cute in a cranky way.

511 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:20:36am

This is good for one or two laughs here.

512 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 10:22:45am

re: #511 wrenchwench

I remember a young woman (an American) asking me, “Why do Muslims say ‘Enchilada’?”

513 Great White Snark  Jun 13, 2015 10:22:45am

re: #464 Nyet

I guess I don’t understand this criticism.

[Embedded content]

I read Rita as just bitter on that but not sure.

514 BeachDem  Jun 13, 2015 10:23:48am

re: #441 Justanotherhuman

Sure but GOTV is imperative.

And Hillary has ground forces in the first 4 primary states already. They are phone banking weekly, going to any and all events, having house parties, etc. They are really not taking anything for granted at this point from what I can see.

515 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 10:24:34am

Heh:

516 PhillyPretzel  Jun 13, 2015 10:27:20am

re: #514 BeachDem

That is how she has to run.

517 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 10:28:41am

re: #516 PhillyPretzel

That is how she has to run.

Yep. Run hard, run scared, and don’t take a damn thing for granted.

518 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 10:29:49am

Wow.

519 wrenchwench  Jun 13, 2015 10:30:09am

This had me concerned:

Now I’m ready to panic:

520 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:30:35am

re: #506 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Agatha Barbara
Micheline Anne-Marie Calmy-Rey
Valeria Ciavatta
Ruth Dreifuss
Atifete Jahjaga
Doris Leuthard
Mary McAleese
Maria Domenica Michelotti
Fausta Simona Morganti
Anna Maria Muccioli
Maria Lea Pedini-Angelini
Mary Robinson
Vaira Vike-Freiberga
Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf
Rosa Zafferani

And OK, some of those were short-term or ceremonial, but what the heck.

521 Dr Lizardo  Jun 13, 2015 10:31:20am

re: #519 wrenchwench

…

523 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:39:55am

re: #508 Charles Johnson

Well, yeah… /*reading Gus’ twitter*

524 Nyet  Jun 13, 2015 10:41:25am
525 Great White Snark  Jun 13, 2015 10:42:21am

It’s just beautiful above Los Angeles today. Yes, that’s the Mt Wilson towercam some of you will recognize from past posts. Ojoe IIRC.

Mt Wilson right now Saturday June 13 about 10;30am
526 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 13, 2015 10:42:34am

re: #508 Charles Johnson

I don’t know what’s been up with it the past day or two but yeah.

527 Lidane  Jun 13, 2015 10:43:58am
528 BeachDem  Jun 13, 2015 10:49:04am

re: #516 PhillyPretzel

That is how she has to run.

And, although I was not a big Hillary fan in 2008, I believe she learned a lot from that campaign and is putting that knowledge to good use.

When I saw her a few weeks ago, I thought she really connected with the crowd. The media went on and on (as they tend to do) about how she talked with a “twang,” but what I heard was someone who knew her audience (women) and talked directly to them and their issues.

529 sagehen  Jun 13, 2015 11:18:58am

re: #519 wrenchwench

This had me concerned:

Now I’m ready to panic:

I can live without coffee or tea, easily. Chocolate, on the other hand…

salon.com

530 Decatur Deb  Jun 13, 2015 12:38:14pm

re: #477 wrenchwench

Some could feel it’s an artful exclusion of the specific to use a more general term.

Unless she chants The Litany of All Shades, someone is gonna bitch.


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