150 Years After the Civil War, South Carolina Finally Surrenders

Nikki Haley, Lindsey Graham call for removal of Confederate flag from SC Capitol
US News • Views: 51,410

South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and Republican senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott are now — finally — calling for the removal of the Confederate battle flag from the grounds of the state Capitol.

And this is a good thing. No doubt about that.

But it’s also an absolute disgrace that it took the murders of nine people and an overwhelming public outcry for them to realize how horribly insulting and wrong it was that the flag was there at all. Ever. Because the Confederate flag didn’t just suddenly become a symbol of slavery and oppression and treason.

Good on Haley and Graham for doing the right thing. But before we get too congratulatory, let’s also remember: Haley, Graham, and the Republican Party had to be forced into this, kicking and screaming the whole way.

UPDATE at 6/22/15 2:52:49 pm by Charles Johnson

Remember, though: this still needs to be voted on by the South Carolina state legislature. The Post and Courier is asking every member where they stand on removing the Confederate flag, and posting the results here.

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382 comments
1 prairiefire  Jun 22, 2015 1:30:37pm

About damn time! How much proof do they need of the magnitude of hateful intent behind that thing.

2 b_sharp  Jun 22, 2015 1:31:28pm

When and why was the flag first put up?

3 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 1:31:53pm

re: #1 prairiefire

About damn time! How much proof do they need of the magnitude of hateful intent behind that thing.

Only enough proof that it would cost them elective offices.

4 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:32:32pm

re: #2 b_sharp

When and why was the flag first put up?

It started flying again in 1962, as a response to the Civil Rights Movement.

5 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:33:01pm
6 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 1:33:07pm

re: #4 Kragar

It started flying again in 1962, as a response to the Civil Rights Movement.

Yep. Not at all racist.
/

7 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:34:48pm

re: #4 Kragar

It started flying again in 1962, as a response to the Civil Rights Movement.

Yep.

8 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:35:03pm
9 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:36:41pm

re: #8 Kragar

[Embedded content]

There wasn’t a nation founded simply to protect slavery until 1861. Next question.

10 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:37:01pm
11 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 1:37:25pm

LOL Redstate comments:

(1) I would fear that, if I agreed to remove the Confederate flag from the state grounds, in a gesture of reconciliation, flag opponents would characterize my action as tacitly admitting that the Stars and Bars in specific, and Confederate history writ large, was unsavory and unrespectable. I would fear that flag opponents wouldn’t be satisfied with simply removing the Stars and Bars from the state capitol grounds. They’d move next to remove Confederate statues from town squares, the names of Confederates from public schools and buildings and streets, and object to public funding of museums that housed Confederate memorabilia. And, they’d cite my earlier gesture at reconciliation as justification for doing more. When people respond that I’m overreacting, I’d remind them of the gay-marraige supporters who combed public donation records to find gay-marraige opponents to hound and harass at their work and homes. I’d also remind them of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, which is being hounded by the government of Oregon. If you give activist an inch, they will take a mile. You cannot expect activists to be reasonable and measured. Especially if they have virtually no respect for your feelings or concerns. If flag supporters concede here, flag opponents will simply pocket that concession and move on to their next target.

Fly the flag because gay wedding cake tyranny!

12 Kryptik  Jun 22, 2015 1:37:45pm

Even if this ends up provoking a whole lot of assholes deciding to cover themselves in the confederate rag out of spite and response to this, well…

It’s about fucking time. It’s fucking embarrassing that any state would dare hang that approvingly. Now maybe if we can get Mississippi, Georgia, and the other states with Confederacy iconography in their official flags to jump on board Long shot, but I never would’ve thought SC would finally bring this down, so…baby steps. Tiny, minuscule baby steps.

13 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:38:44pm

re: #11 iossarian

LOL Redstate comments:

Fly the flag because gay wedding cake tyranny!

Man takes time to be that stupid. If you can’t admit the CSA cause was wrong in 2015, get out of my century.

14 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:39:49pm

Hopefully the USSC goes 6-3 on SSM to really show them how wrong their view of Anerica is.

15 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 1:39:58pm

NWS investigating possible tornado damage from yesterday’s storm about a mile away.
Thanks, Obama.

16 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 22, 2015 1:39:58pm

It’s like that dangerous intersection without a stop sign. You know someone is going to get killed… Everyone knows it. But nothing is done until it’s too late. Except this is much, much worse.

17 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:40:26pm
18 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 22, 2015 1:40:41pm

re: #12 Kryptik

Let them expose themselves. We will all be better off that way.

19 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:41:05pm

re: #17 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That’s what you should have been doing all along.

20 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:41:24pm
21 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:41:48pm
22 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 1:42:03pm

Breitbart commenters are losing their shit.

23 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 1:42:47pm

Sorry Charles, I see this as sort of an empty political gesture. She needed to address the problems behind the flag. She also more or less told everyone else throughout America to bug out of South Carolina’s business.

There is a lot more danger in the thinking than the damn piece of cloth. Nothing as far as the thinking is going to change with an empty political gesture.

Oh well.

Just fired an email to Eugene Robinson after watching him on Alex Wagner’s MSNBC show. I am asking him to take time and read the transcript of Haley’s speech and reconsider his take.

And Harold Ford Jr. is an idiot!

Later Lizards. I’m a bit bummed by this, and I need to tone down if you know what I mean.

24 #FergusonFireside  Jun 22, 2015 1:43:09pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Breitbart commenters are losing their shit.

ha

25 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:43:28pm
26 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 1:43:51pm

re: #24 #FergusonFireside

ha

I was told it was libs who like the flag.
Why are they so worked up?

/HAHAHAHA

27 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 1:43:59pm

Way, way late.

28 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 1:44:04pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Breitbart commenters are losing their shit.

Then we know someone did something right, even if they tried to couch it in wingnut propaganda to soften the blow of reality piercing the right-wing bubble.

29 makeitstop  Jun 22, 2015 1:44:06pm

re: #23 ObserverArt

Sorry Charles, I see this as sort of an empty political gesture. She needed to address the problems behind the flag. She also more or less told everyone else throughout America to bug out of South Carolina’s business.

There is a lot more danger in the thinking than the damn piece of cloth. Nothing as far as the thinking is going to change with an empty political gesture.

Oh well.

Just fired an email to Eugene Robinson after watching him on Alex Wagner’s MSNBC show. I am asking him to take time and read the transcript of Haley’s speech and reconsider his take.

And Harold Ford Jr. is an idiot!

Later Lizards. I’m a bit bummed by this, and I need to tone down if you know what I mean.

You’re right. Removing the symbol of hate is not going to remove the hate.

Gotta start somewhere, though.

30 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:44:07pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Oh come the fuck on.

31 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:44:18pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Breitbart commenters are losing their shit.

They’re full of shit, they lose their shit. They’re full of shit, they lose their shit.

Its a vicious cycle.

32 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:46:04pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Way, way late.

Oh you say that now Preibus when it’s been obvious to everyone else for decades. I bet Haley got pressure from businessmen types. This wasn’t done on true principle on her part so no brownie points for Haley or Graham.

33 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:46:43pm
34 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 1:47:25pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

35 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:10pm
36 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:14pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Hey it took courage to do that.//

37 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:31pm

re: #23 ObserverArt

I don’t think anybody believes this symbolic gesture is going to remove all racist hatred. But symbolism does mean something; it’s not a totally empty gesture to make a change like this, when they’ve been adamantly resisting it for so long.

38 Zamb  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:39pm

So how long do you think it will take GOP politicians to start telling black people “It was actually a republican governor who took down the confederate flag and not a democrat” in order to win minority support?

39 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:51pm

re: #35 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Oh go fuck your self but no the birther movement was never racist at all.//

40 Kryptik  Jun 22, 2015 1:48:57pm

And on the tangential note, I find myself finally getting a coherent finger on why the whole reluctance to call the Charleston massacre “terrorism” irritates the fuck out of me: it’s the way it both narrows and expands the term.

It’s simply can’t be terrorism because it’s a “lone wolf” with no concrete ties or whatever the fuck is the excuse, it can’t be terrorism because it’s not “politically inspired” (which it clearly was, even before the manifesto made it explicit), etc. etc. Whereas we are quick to call it terrorism whenever someone Muslim does something no matter whether they did it out of genuine affiliation with ISIS or Al-Qaida or whatever the fuck or whether they were just wannabes.

This gets to the core of it: we don’t treat terrorism as a crime; we treat it like a war crime . There is the unspoken but blatant treatment of terrorism as if it’s something that requires military solutions, and thus something like this simply can’t be terrorism, because it’d be treating someone who “looks like us” to be an enemy of the state. It’s the elevation of the idea of what terrorism is combined with the narrowing of the template of what a terrorist must look or act like before we can call them a terrorist. And no need to guess what the prime characteristics of what the hypothetical terrorist template entails.

The reluctance to call this “terrorism” is an outgrowth of turning the very idea of terrorism as well as the ideal of what a terrorist must be into spooky magical boogeyman that can only be staved off via war or war-like behavior, as well as the abdication of responsibility when people throw up their hands and proclaim nothing can be done about folks like Roof because he was a “lone wolf nut”.

41 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:49:12pm

re: #38 Zamb

So how long do you think it will take GOP politicians to start telling black people “It was actually a republican governor who took down the confederate flag and not a democrat” in order to win minority support?

Tomorrow or later tonight.

42 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 1:49:52pm

re: #38 Zamb

So how long do you think it will take GOP politicians to start telling black people “It was actually a republican governor who took down the confederate flag and not a democrat” in order to win minority support?

Jeez that’s depressing but yes. The over/under is set at two weeks.

43 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:49:57pm

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has been diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

44 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:50:31pm

re: #43 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has been diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

Best wishes, cancer sucks.

45 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 1:51:46pm

re: #43 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has been diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

I wish him the best and hope he makes a full recovery - I wouldn’t wish cancer on anyone.

46 Kryptik  Jun 22, 2015 1:52:30pm

re: #38 Zamb

I hope no one is going to allow Haley and other conservatives to wrap this around themselves like a blanket and claim it for themselves, since they had to be shamed into this shit.

47 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 1:52:46pm

Welp, I made it home ONE SECOND before the storm started.

I hope the power stays on.

48 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 1:53:14pm

re: #43 Backwoods_Sleuth

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has been diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.

And it sucks to have only been detected now. Wish him the best.

49 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 1:53:42pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Way, way late.

Maybe this will cause the Republican party to split into two parties, or is that just wishful thinking. haha

50 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 1:54:00pm

re: #29 makeitstop

You’re right. Removing the symbol of hate is not going to remove the hate.

Gotta start somewhere, though.

I though the start was back in the 60s with Jim Crow elimination and President Johnson’s legislature. Yet here we are in 2015 still fighting over the symbol and racism is just as bad as ever. We talk about it all the time here at LGF, many wondering if racism is getting worse.

I feel we will still be seeing it. That flag is not going to disappear. In fact I bet there is a big show of it everywhere but on the SC statehouse grounds.

I bet the dang flag is a big seller right there in Charleston today. Decals for your trucks, toolboxes and gun lockers.

What will we think when the next attack on some Blacks or liberals happens and the CSA flag is left behind as a statement?

And no, I don’t want perfection. We are humans. I do want leaders. She could have addressed the thinking too. However, that may not be politically good.

I don’t expect my take on all this to be popular. And I didn’t expect this day to eliminate racism. Maybe I did expect more as a start,

Later!

51 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 1:54:05pm
52 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 1:54:06pm

re: #46 Kryptik

I hope no one is going to allow Haley and other conservatives to wrap this around themselves like a blanket and claim it for themselves, since they had to be shamed into this shit.

And judging by the reaction of the more hardcore wingnut contingent, this action has pissed them off royally. They’re furious.

53 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 1:55:02pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

I don’t think anybody believes this symbolic gesture is going to remove all racist hatred. But symbolism does mean something; it’s not a totally empty gesture to make a change like this, when they’ve been adamantly resisting it for so long.

As I noted downstairs, I’m really surprised they’re making this move, contingent on the legislature. The usual response to any questioning of their “heritage” or policies is to double-down.

54 OhNoZombies!  Jun 22, 2015 1:55:17pm

re: #23 ObserverArt

Sorry Charles, I see this as sort of an empty political gesture. She needed to address the problems behind the flag. She also more or less told everyone else throughout America to bug out of South Carolina’s business.

There is a lot more danger in the thinking than the damn piece of cloth. Nothing as far as the thinking is going to change with an empty political gesture.

Oh well.

Just fired an email to Eugene Robinson after watching him on Alex Wagner’s MSNBC show. I am asking him to take time and read the transcript of Haley’s speech and reconsider his take.

And Harold Ford Jr. is an idiot!

Later Lizards. I’m a bit bummed by this, and I need to tone down if you know what I mean.

Yes…yes he is. I had to turn it off because yelling at the tv wasn’t working.

55 Drive By Commenter  Jun 22, 2015 1:55:27pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

K&A. A few days ago in West Philly.

56 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 1:56:24pm

So #tcot is all like

57 Lidane  Jun 22, 2015 1:56:27pm

re: #43 Backwoods_Sleuth

Awful news. Cancer is a motherfucker.

I wish the governor and his family the best.

58 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 1:56:47pm

re: #23 ObserverArt

And Harold Ford Jr. is an idiot!

Forgot all about Harold. He still a Democrat? Officially?

59 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 1:57:07pm

re: #54 OhNoZombies!

Yes…yes he is. I had to turn it off because yelling at the tv wasn’t working.

I always hated the term DINO but Harold owns that, he was a huge panderer on SSM and look where it got you Harold. I can accept conservative Democrats, I cannot accept people who think moderate for the sake of moderate is an ideology.

60 Lidane  Jun 22, 2015 1:58:24pm

re: #56 The Vicious Babushka

Yeah. I had an RWNJ dipshit giving me that line earlier today.

BLAME FRTIZ HOLLINGS U LIBTARD!, even though Hollings left office in 2005. No explanation for why the GOP majority in SC was unable to take the flag down until now.

61 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 1:59:42pm

HURR HURR DEMOCRATS!!!!!

Yep that’s the talking point.

62 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 1:59:58pm

re: #60 Lidane

Yeah. I had an RWNJ dipshit giving me that line earlier today.

BLAME FRTIZ HOLLINGS U LIBTARD!, even though Hollings left office in 2005. No explanation for why the GOP majority in SC was unable to take the flag down until now.

Thares nothing wrong with the rebel flag it’s about heritage not hate and don’t blame us GOP it got put up by Democrat Party thare real racists!!!11

63 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 1:59:59pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

I don’t think anybody believes this symbolic gesture is going to remove all racist hatred. But symbolism does mean something; it’s not a totally empty gesture to make a change like this, when they’ve been adamantly resisting it for so long.

I understand that. But this was a damn good chance to add a bit more to the day than just talking about the symbol. What the symbol stands for wasn’t addressed and to me was more or less excused.

She could have added more meat in my opinion. This was all cotton candy.

And I have a real problem with how she called out everyone else telling us this was a South Carolina decision. That is the same thinking. To me that is saying “We took down the flag you damn liberals, that is going to be good enough for you. Meanwhile proud South Carolina ‘business’ stays the same.”

I hope I am wrong. Been wrong before!

64 Khal Wimpo  Jun 22, 2015 2:00:18pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Some furious polling going on in South Carolina right now; as the results trickle in, look for the measure to get watered down & shoved into the “To-Do Pile,” alongside the magical GOP plan to bring insurance to everyone that is better than Obamacare and a tired-looking unicorn.

Profiles in courage, this ain’t.

I’d like to be charitable and say that the reps in South Carolina are just acting in accordance with the reprobate racists in their home districts. But any sane person listening to the derp they spew out has to conclude that they are all just as Fucked In The Head as their constituents.

65 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:01:15pm

re: #61 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR DEMOCRATS!!!!!

Yep that’s the talking point.

Yup, GOP hasn’t had anything to do with promoting the rebel flag for the past decade and theres nothing wrong with flag anyway even though it was Dems flag.

//

66 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:01:50pm

re: #61 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR DEMOCRATS!!!!!

Yep that’s the talking point.

The talking points are all a jumble these days.

67 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 2:02:49pm
68 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:02:51pm

re: #56 The Vicious Babushka

So #tcot is all like

Thought the RWNJ loved the rebel flag? Now they’re running from it.

69 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:02:53pm

“Conservative Patriot, Christian, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Liberal,Pro-Life, JESUS IS KING Pro America, Pro Family, No Communists Progressives/Liberals”

70 Khal Wimpo  Jun 22, 2015 2:03:14pm

In other news, the power is back on in my house. Amazing we could actually get work done all morning with nothing more than some decent battery life in the Macs and a T-Mobile hotspot 4G connection. The old transformer looked like it was dripping dioxin & other toxic shit as they hoisted it off the pole. Not gonna play in the alley any time soon.

RIP Mr. Squirrel. You went out with a bang. Also.

71 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:03:21pm

re: #61 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR DEMOCRATS!!!!!

Yep that’s the talking point.

[Embedded content]

Morons. Who derided the Democratic candidates that wanted to get rid of it?

72 eeisler  Jun 22, 2015 2:03:24pm

re: #50 ObserverArt

Yeah, I expect an ugly back lash if they pull the flag. It just might be a necessary part of the process, however. Having the flag on state grounds is a tacit endorsement of the ideology so keeping it isn’t much of an option.

I do wonder of the chess game the Republicans went through - they must have decided we are close enough to the minority majority to risk pissing off the heritage folks in favor of NOT pissing off a whole bunch of other people.

73 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 2:03:27pm

re: #69 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“Conservative Patriot, Christian, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Liberal,Pro-Life, JESUS IS KING Pro America, Pro Family, No Communists Progressives/Liberals”

No brain.

74 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:03:40pm

re: #69 Kragar

“Conservative Patriot, Christian, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Liberal,Pro-Life, JESUS IS KING Pro America, Pro Family, No Communists Progressives/Liberals”

Maybe 95% fake? 90%? 100% is kinda going out there on a limb, fella.

//

75 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 2:04:14pm

re: #70 Khal Wimpo

In other news, the power is back on in my house. Amazing we could actually get work done all morning with nothing more than some decent battery life in the Macs and a T-Mobile hotspot 4G connection. The old transformer looked like it was dripping dioxin & other toxic shit as they hoisted it off the pole. Not gonna play in the alley any time soon.

RIP Mr. Squirrel. You went out with a bang. Also.

That happened here a few years ago when a squirrel bit some lines. Substation went ‘pffffffffttttttttzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaappppppppppboooom!’

76 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:05:20pm

re: #71 HappyWarrior

Morons. Who derided the Democratic candidates that wanted to get rid of it?

Those Dems hated their heritage and their state but it’s not GOP fault flag is there.

///

77 Zamb  Jun 22, 2015 2:05:39pm

re: #23 ObserverArt

Sorry Charles, I see this as sort of an empty political gesture. She needed to address the problems behind the flag. She also more or less told everyone else throughout America to bug out of South Carolina’s business.

There is a lot more danger in the thinking than the damn piece of cloth. Nothing as far as the thinking is going to change with an empty political gesture.

Oh well.

Just fired an email to Eugene Robinson after watching him on Alex Wagner’s MSNBC show. I am asking him to take time and read the transcript of Haley’s speech and reconsider his take.

And Harold Ford Jr. is an idiot!

Later Lizards. I’m a bit bummed by this, and I need to tone down if you know what I mean.

It’s not entirely an empty gesture, but it is a bit like treating the symptoms, rather than the disease itself. This flag got there, and continues to fly there, because of the racist attitudes that permeate the political culture. Black people are still looked upon, not as people, but as an interest group even by many outside of the conservative movement. Until that changes we will not be able to address the broader issue of racism.

78 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:05:43pm
79 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:15pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

99%?

80 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:23pm

Someone needs to bring up loudly that Haley derided the Democratic gubertorial and LG candidate who wanted to get rid of it. Not that it will matter though since conservatives live in fantasyland:

81 Drive By Commenter  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:25pm

I was a little kid in North Philly in the 50’s. I knew exactly what a “Rebel Flag” meant.

82 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:26pm
83 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:34pm

re: #66 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

The talking points are all a jumble these days.

Clearly a lib.
/

84 team_fukit  Jun 22, 2015 2:06:55pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

I knew as soon as I saw Preibus in the crowd at Haley’s statement that this was a calculated move straight from the top of the GOP. Haley’s thing about “this is a South Carolina decision” is BS.

85 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:07:00pm

re: #79 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

99%?

We need some prowling photographers.

86 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:07:31pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

We’re not SC but we did have a governor and senator who was in office as recently as 2006 fly it in his office. A disgrace George Allen is.

87 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:08:12pm

re: #84 team_fukit

I knew as soon as I saw Preibus in the crowd at Haley’s statement that this was a calculated move straight from the top of the GOP. Haley’s thing about “this is a South Carolina decision” is BS.

Yep the states rights whistle. Atwater would be proud of Nikki.

88 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 2:08:13pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Way, way late.

Yeah—Reince says “Now is the time to do what is right.”

No, now is the time they HAVE to do what is right because of the glare of publicity—there has been time to do what is right for, oh, at least 50 years or so.

89 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 22, 2015 2:08:59pm

One reason for this reverence shown the Confederate dead is probably collective guilt over the secessionist regime’s abject failure to take care of them while they were alive.
The Confederacy controlled what was probably the most productive agricultural region in the world at the time, yet Lee’s army was STARVING by the time it surrendered at Appomattox.
The Confederate government itself could not generate revenue or organize a logistics system worthy of the name. The fetish for states rights also interfered, since each state was required to support its own troops and no others. During the March to the Sea, Sherman’s army captured huge stocks of uniforms, food, and other supplies the state government had withheld pending assurances that the supplies would go only to Georgia’s own troops and no others. The food went to Sherman’s men instead while the uniforms were consigned to the flames.

90 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 2:09:36pm

So, to recap conservative thought from today;

There is nothing wrong with the rebel flag.
The rebel flag is liberal.
Conservatives are the ones defending it.
Conservatives are liberals.
Conservatives will be the ones wailing about the rebel flags removal.
…

That about sum it up?

91 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:10:33pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

During the March to the Sea, Sherman’s army captured huge stocks of uniforms, food, and other supplies the state government had withheld pending assurances that the supplies would go only to Georgia’s own troops and no others. The food went to Sherman’s men instead while the uniforms were consigned to the flames.

Well, it’s nice to see pointless small-minded ideology bite its subscribers in the ass, if nothing else.

92 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:10:38pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

So, to recap conservative thought from today;

There is nothing wrong with the rebel flag.
The rebel flag is liberal.
Conservatives are the ones defending it.
Conservatives are liberals.
Conservatives will be the ones wailing about the rebel flags removal.
…

That about sum it up?

Can I have some rum?

93 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:11:09pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

So, to recap conservative thought from today;

There is nothing wrong with the rebel flag.
The rebel flag is liberal.
Conservatives are the ones defending it.
Conservatives are liberals.
Conservatives will be the ones wailing about the rebel flags removal.
…

That about sum it up?

You omitted “fly the flag or else gay marriage cake will win” but to be fair that was more of a grace note.

94 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 2:11:21pm

This Freeper (VRWCmember), in response to another Freeper, articulates quite well how I think a good many of the RWNJ’s feel about the Stars and Bars.

Whether it stands for slavery and secession to you or for rainbows and unicorns, your perception of the flag and what it stands for is of great importance to your mind and of little importance to others. To conservatives (especially hard-line Constitutional conservatives who still believe the Bill of Rights meant what it said) in the south, the confederate flag stands for the 10th Amendment, and for the rights and powers of the States to decide matters not delegated by the Constitution to the federal Congress. While the institution of slavery and the rights of the states to secede from the union were major issues leading to the War of Northern Aggression, they were not the only issues. To southerners, the confederate flag stands for pride in our southern heritage, for rugged individualism and a rural/agrarian culture rather than an industrial/mechanical culture, for self-determination rather than subservience to the dictates of Washington and a northeastern consortium of oligarchs. If you have bought into the idea that because some loud racists have hijacked our flag for their agenda that the flag stands for that agenda, then nothing any southerner can say will change your mind; but we will not let you or anyone else dictate to us what the flag stands for.

Just damn. There really is no reaching some folks is there? They really do live in an alternate reality - a complete different worldview than the rest of the US.

95 Varek Raith  Jun 22, 2015 2:11:25pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Can I have some rum?

No…
Unless this is a liberal trap.
Then I’ll walk into it.

96 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 2:12:13pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Can I have some rum?

No, this is The Lash. Rum is just down the hall, past Sodomy.

97 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:13:05pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

No, this is The Lash. Rum is just down the hall, past Sodomy.

(Yo) Ho Ho

98 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:14:19pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

No, this is The Lash. Rum is just down the hall, past Sodomy.

But my name is Jock Stewart and I have acres of land.

99 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 2:14:21pm

re: #61 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR DEMOCRATS!!!!!

Yep that’s the talking point.

[Embedded content]

Just dittoheads quoting Limbaugh.

The Confederate Flag Is the Legacy of Democrats, Not Republicans!

The question is who’s resisting taking it down now. Republicans will never tire of pretending Democrats in 2015 are Dixiecrats in the 50’s and 60’s. Like Strom Thurmond didn’t quit the Democrats and join the GOP after the failed filibuster against the ‘64 CRA.

100 team_fukit  Jun 22, 2015 2:14:37pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

I think the main reason is political.

During Reconstruction, ex-Confederate politicians invoked “the bloody shirt” of dead veterans to deny rights and opportunity to blacks.

Jubal Early’s Lost Cause historiography also glorified the Confederate dead.

101 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:16:16pm

re: #67 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

The Southern Avenger has turned away from his flag.

Non-Hotair link: thedailybeast.com

102 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:16:45pm

re: #99 goddamnedfrank

Just dittoheads quoting Limbaugh.

The Confederate Flag Is the Legacy of Democrats, Not Republicans!

The question is who’s resisting taking it down now. Republicans will never tire of pretending Democrats in 2015 are Dixiecrats in the 50’s and 60’s. Like Strom Thurmond didn’t quit the Democrats and join the GOP after the failed filibuster against the ‘64 CRA.

Yep and Limbaugh should shut his face considering how he reacts when Republicans have apologized for the Southern Strategy. Civil Rights was never about Dem vs Republican, no one on the left thinks that but it was about liberalism versus conservatism and Rush has been on the side of segregation advocates for decades now.

103 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 2:17:08pm

re: #20 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

If they had the votes, this measure would be taken up this week. They don’t.

From just 8 hours ago:

“Zero Appetite” Among SCGOP Leadership To Take Down Confederate Flag

…A third legislative leader warned FITS there were “powerful voices” within the S.C. House adamantly opposed to removing the flag.

Specifically, they referred us to S.C. Rep. Greg Delleney (above) - chairman of the House judiciary committee and a close friend of S.C. Speaker of the House Jay Lucas. Many references were also made to S.C. Rep. Rick Quinn, whose father Richard Quinn is one of the state’s leading neo-Confederates.

“Many members support the flag,” the lawmaker told us. “But many more are afraid of crossing those who do.”

fitsnews.com

104 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:17:55pm

re: #103 BeachDem

If they had the votes, this measure would be taken up this week. They don’t.

From just 8 hours ago:

“Zero Appetite” Among SCGOP Leadership To Take Down Confederate Flag

…A third legislative leader warned FITS there were “powerful voices” within the S.C. House adamantly opposed to removing the flag.

Specifically, they referred us to S.C. Rep. Greg Delleney (above) - chairman of the House judiciary committee and a close friend of S.C. Speaker of the House Jay Lucas. Many references were also made to S.C. Rep. Rick Quinn, whose father Richard Quinn is one of the state’s leading neo-Confederates.

“Many members support the flag,” the lawmaker told us. “But many more are afraid of crossing those who do.”

fitsnews.com

But but Democrats.//

105 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:18:02pm

@SCOTUSblog is having fun this afternoon with trolls and others who think the account is actually SCOTUS.

106 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:18:49pm

re: #105 Backwoods_Sleuth

@SCOTUSblog is having fun this afternoon with trolls and others who think the account is actually SCOTUS.

That’s always fun.

107 eeisler  Jun 22, 2015 2:19:42pm

re: #103 BeachDem

Hmm, another form of plausible deniability. The national republican leadership can say hey, we tried and the confederates can say they won on the issue of the flag. Not a bad play for them.

108 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:20:02pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

The Southern Avenger has turned away from his flag.

[Embedded content]

Non-Hotair link: thedailybeast.com

I love the “you will be made to care” meme that comes up among conservatives in opposition to acting in a non-shitty way.

“You will be made to care about gay people.”

“You will be made to care about black people.”

As if caring for other people is this terrible, terrible imposition.

109 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:20:27pm
110 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:21:00pm

re: #108 iossarian

I love the “you will be made to care” meme that comes up among conservatives in opposition to acting in a non-shitty way.

“You will be made to care about gay people.”

“You will be made to care about black people.”

As if caring for other people is this terrible, terrible imposition.

These are the people who think gay marriage is tyranny and shitty wages are liberty.

111 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:21:29pm

re: #109 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Points to right arm.

112 piratedan  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:03pm

so…..

if we misunderstand what the flag stands for… and Democrats are responsible for the KKK and racism and the flag itself… why in the fuck aren’t the Republicans marching for human rights and voting to eradicate these racist symbols and organizations from our political discourse?

113 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:25pm

re: #108 iossarian

I love the “you will be made to care” meme that comes up among conservatives in opposition to acting in a non-shitty way.

“You will be made to care about gay people.”

“You will be made to care about black people.”

As if caring for other people is this terrible, terrible imposition.

This is considered bad?

What do they think Christianity is?

114 Nyet  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:27pm
Adolf Solomonovich Shayevich (born 28 October 1937; Russian: Адольф Соломонович Шаевич; the first name is sometimes also transcribed as Adolph, and the surname as Shayevitch or Shaevich[1]) has been since 1983 the rabbi of Moscow Choral Synagogue, which has been traditionally considered as Moscow’s main Jewish house of prayer.[2]
[…]
Presently he is considered the Chief Rabbi of Russia by the Russian Jewish Congress, one of the two major Jewish organization in Russia (of which he also is a member of the presidium).[1] His claim to this title is not universally recognized, however, because the country’s other major Jewish organization, Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia, has its own Chief Rabbi of Russia, Berel Lazar.[5]

His recent interview contains lots of tasty bits, this is the tastiest one:

snob.ru

Sobchak: OK, so there is God and he gave you and the Muslims commandments. Some things are different, but both religions forbid eating pork, you and Muslims observe that. There is a commandment: stone homosexuals; they observe this, and you do not. Maybe they are more consistent?

Adolf Shaevich: Let’s say, I approve of their attitude towards homosexuals, to sexual minorities.

Krasovsky: So that’s normal - to hang them? You mean you would hang them yourself?

Adolf Shaevich: I wouldn’t hang them myself, but I would support those who hang them.

(One of the interviewers is openly gay, BTW.)

115 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:34pm
116 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:35pm

Jurassic world rocked. Now I’m going to go get a confederate flag tattoo before my mandatory sex reassignment surgery then rest up before m my forced gay marriage. It sure is confusing being one of those conservative liberals

117 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:50pm

re: #112 piratedan

so…..

if we misunderstand what the flag stands for… and Democrats are responsible for the KKK and racism and the flag itself… why in the fuck aren’t the Republicans marching for human rights and voting to eradicate these racist symbols and organizations from our political discourse?

Ah - I see the problem. You think that the talking points have to obey “logic” or make some kind of coherent “sense” when taken as a whole.

118 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:23:55pm

re: #112 piratedan

so…..

if we misunderstand what the flag stands for… and Democrats are responsible for the KKK and racism and the flag itself… why in the fuck aren’t the Republicans marching for human rights and voting to eradicate these racist symbols and organizations from our political discourse?

Bipartisanship./// but yeah seriously good point.

119 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:24:08pm

re: #112 piratedan

so…..

if we misunderstand what the flag stands for… and Democrats are responsible for the KKK and racism and the flag itself… why in the fuck aren’t the Republicans marching for human rights and voting to eradicate these racist symbols and organizations from our political discourse?

Because shut up.

//

120 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 2:24:10pm

re: #107 eeisler

Hmm, another form of plausible deniability. The national republican leadership can say hey, we tried and the confederates can say they won on the issue of the flag. Not a bad play for them.

Just saw your comment and a few others in the same vane.

Should that occur, then today will have been even more an empty gesture than I was thinking and an even more bold in-your-face statement to the entire country.

Can they be that bold?

Answer lies in history. They have been before.

121 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2015 2:24:23pm

Last week: “There’s nothing wrong with that flag! It’s a symbol of our heritage and taking it down won’t change anything!”

Today: “DEMOCRATS PUT THAT FLAG UP THERE!!!”

122 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:25:13pm

re: #115 Kragar

[Embedded content]

He sounds nice. These are your fellow conservatives Nikki, ain’t they swell?

123 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:25:13pm

re: #115 Kragar

Somebody doesn’t sound happy.

124 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:25:37pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

Last week: “There’s nothing wrong with that flag! It’s a symbol of our heritage and taking it down won’t change anything!”

Today: “DEMOCRATS PUT THAT FLAG UP THERE!!!”

I have whiplash at this turnaround.

125 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:25:49pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

Last week: “There’s nothing wrong with that flag! It’s a symbol of our heritage and taking it down won’t change anything!”

Today: “DEMOCRATS PUT THAT FLAG UP THERE!!!”

Yeah and next week will be Haley is up there with MLK.

126 iossarian  Jun 22, 2015 2:25:57pm

re: #113 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

This is considered bad?

What do they think Christianity is?

Setting fire to people I think. Actually, to be fair to someone like Eric Erickson, he can sometimes see that the “other” is actually a worthwhile human being. He just has this big hangup over sexuality.

127 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:26:26pm
128 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:27:30pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

Last week: “There’s nothing wrong with that flag! It’s a symbol of our heritage and taking it down won’t change anything!”

Today: “DEMOCRATS PUT THAT FLAG UP THERE!!!”

129 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:28:15pm

re: #127 Kragar

[Embedded content]

The only ones who didn’t never did formally because they despise Abe Lincoln that much but Strom, Jesse, and many others were happy to switch.

130 Dr. Matt  Jun 22, 2015 2:28:16pm

It’s fucking sad and pathetic that it takes 9 people murdered for South Carolina to remove that piece of shit rag.

corrected for ragpo (rage-induced typo)

131 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:29:18pm
132 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:29:30pm

re: #130 Dr. Matt

It’s fucking sad and pathetic that it takes 8 people murdered for South Carolina to remove that piece of shit rag.

9 but yes.

133 Dr. Matt  Jun 22, 2015 2:31:15pm

re: #132 HappyWarrior

9 but yes.

Thanks. My mistake.

134 Nyet  Jun 22, 2015 2:31:16pm

Since we are on the topic of various Adolfs:

Dylann Roof Appears To Have Regularly Commented On A Neo-Nazi Website

135 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:33:20pm

re: #130 Dr. Matt

It’s fucking sad and pathetic that it takes 8 people murdered for South Carolina to remove that piece of shit rag.

How many for Mississippi?

136 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 2:33:25pm

I didn’t have time to scroll through all the comments, but I think this is nothing more than getting the GOP Presidential candidates off the hook so they don’t have to answer The Question anymore.

137 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:33:27pm

It should be left up to Democrats, Fischer continued, to decide what to do “with your Confederate flag … It’s your flag, it’s your issue. You need to decide what you want to do with it.”

Well, in that case, I’ll be grabbing a flame thrower.

138 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 2:33:30pm

re: #131 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Decided to stay logged in for reading and updings. That tweet gets one.

To add to it, once the drunk gets home and sleeps it off, he will be back in the bar tomorrow.

139 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:11pm
140 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:11pm

For some reason my browser keeps snapping back up to the top of the page about every 30 seconds.

141 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:13pm
142 Lidane  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:17pm

re: #115 Kragar

His timeline….yeesh. He keeps going:

143 Dr. Matt  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:40pm

re: #140 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

For some reason my browser keeps snapping back up to the top of the page about every 30 seconds.

Ditto

144 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:34:50pm

re: #137 Kragar

Well, in that case, I’ll be grabbing a flame thrower.

Bryan’s a moran.

But, OK. It’s our issue. Let’s burn it.

145 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:35:35pm
146 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:35:40pm

re: #133 Dr. Matt

Thanks. My mistake.

No prob.

147 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 22, 2015 2:35:58pm

re: #142 Lidane

His timeline….yeesh. He keeps going:

A charmer.

“STFU…woman.”

/

148 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 2:36:30pm

re: #142 Lidane

His timeline….yeesh. He keeps going:

[Embedded content]

Damn, who is that Patrick Dullard fellow? Local Grand Dragon of the Invisible Knights of the KKK or something?

Yeesh.

149 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:36:41pm

re: #137 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Well, in that case, I’ll be grabbing a flame thrower.

It’s not our flag asshole. My ancestors were Democrats and Union men all the way so fuck off Bryan.

150 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:37:31pm

From a bar located across the street from the SC capitol:

151 Dr. Matt  Jun 22, 2015 2:37:38pm
152 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:39:18pm

Abraham Lincoln’s Secretary of War was a Democrat and the man who gave the beautiful eulogy “Now he belongs to the ages.”

153 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:41:21pm

Google Mr. Dollars guys. I’d link but I’m on my phone.

154 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 2:42:59pm
155 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:44:17pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Obviously democrats are holding it up.

156 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 2:44:25pm

re: #115 Kragar

I think he’s using again.

157 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:45:10pm

re: #18 GlutenFreeJesus

Let them expose themselves. We will all be better off that way.

Yes whenever I see someone with the Confederate flag on their truck or pinned to their clothing, I know to keep far away from him/her. They’ve just outed themselves as a racist and I don’t do racism.

158 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 2:45:15pm

re: #142 Lidane

See his Wikipedia bio.

159 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:45:36pm

Knew so recognized Dollard’s name. One of the most bigoted Hollywood cons.

160 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:46:26pm

re: #158 Eric The Fruit Bat

See his Wikipedia bio.

I did because I thought I knew the name and holy Christ on a stick.

161 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:47:32pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s too bad. Listening to her speech, I thought it was a sure thing it would be taken down. What a letdown that would be for those who want the Confederate flag removed from the state capitol.

162 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 2:47:45pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

163 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:33pm

re: #162 No Country For Old Haters

[Embedded content]

Having a puny right wing brain caused by years of Ragehol causes it too.

164 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:36pm

re: #151 Dr. Matt

Any day that Pat Dollard is that butthurt is a good day.

165 wrenchwench  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:43pm
166 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:43pm
167 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:52pm

re: #142 Lidane

Just proving that it’s only racists who support the Confederate flag. Not surprised in the least. He needs to keep talking and showing his behind to the world.

168 Dr. Matt  Jun 22, 2015 2:48:59pm

It’s amazing that he didn’t get perma-banned for this:

Click to Reveal
169 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 2:49:02pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

Someone needs to bring up loudly that Haley derided the Democratic gubertorial and LG candidate who wanted to get rid of it. Not that it will matter though since conservatives live in fantasyland:

Putting a page together right now!

170 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 2:49:18pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I doubt she ever has them. The Southern tea party Republicans that elected her and control the State through gerrymandering are way too reactionary, obstinate and invested in the Confederate mythology. They’d rather tear the party apart than cave on this issue.

Instead I’m guessing they pass an open cary bill and make everyone get a pet eagle.

171 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:50:08pm

The CSA flag ain’t racist but what does Nikki Haley know, she’s not a “real” South Carolinan. I feel bad for her a little but she’s been part of the problem not the solution.

172 Dr Lizardo  Jun 22, 2015 2:50:10pm

And with that, goodnight, Lizards.

173 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:50:44pm

re: #169 BeachDem

Putting a page together right now!

You go.

174 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 22, 2015 2:52:08pm

So, if the republicans in the SC legislature vote to not remove the flag… Can we still blame democrats?

175 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:52:15pm

re: #166 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Reason #457 to tell if someone is a racist, the Democratic “plantation” because choosing to vote for a party is the same as a lifetime of slavery for you and your family.

176 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:52:47pm

re: #137 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Well, in that case, I’ll be grabbing a flame thrower.

If it’s a Democratic issue, shouldn’t Republicans be supporting its take down? Who is actually keeping it flying in S.C.’s capitol?

177 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 2:53:08pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Does this fact make it an empty gesture?

And should it not pass…what will be the blowback?

I now wonder if this is a race for time. Maybe they hope they can tie it all up and America will forget all about the flag and move on to the next outrage.

While I hate how this is going down, it sure is going to make for some fascinating politics watching. I don’t know if I can remember a political risk quite like this one.

As you said, it is symbolic…but damn this symbol has a chance to create some real nasty reality. Put on the flak jackets!

178 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:53:24pm

re: #174 GlutenFreeJesus

So, if the republicans in the SC legislature vote to not remove the flag… Can we still blame democrats?

Yes, especially Obama. He’s always to blame.

179 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:53:57pm
180 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:54:43pm

re: #179 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Of course.

181 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 2:55:38pm

re: #179 Kragar

All Republicans, I see. Yet this is a Democratic issue, right?

182 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:55:39pm

re: #179 Kragar

183 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:56:09pm

re: #182 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Racist Repugnant.

184 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 2:58:48pm
185 piratedan  Jun 22, 2015 2:58:51pm

re: #174 GlutenFreeJesus

why not? After Fritz Holland put it up there and supposedly, only he or baby Jeebus himself can bring it down and it’s unlikely that Baby Jeebus would do so because he’s understand the true nature and heritage of the flag.

After all, if they can take political parties from 150 years ago and claim that our politics entered a static state since that time and that nothing has changed in our politics since that time and that there never was a 1964. Then why not, it’s like a political acid trip and these guys got some very bad skank.

186 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 2:59:18pm
187 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 2:59:21pm

re: #184 Kragar

[Embedded content]

What happened to that one Republican? Guess it was all talk sigh.

188 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 3:00:47pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Breitbart commenters are losing their shit.

I wasn’t aware they ever had their shit.

189 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 3:01:07pm
190 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 3:03:31pm

re: #188 Romantic Heretic

I wasn’t aware they ever had their shit.

They lose it but they fill up again very quickly. They eat a lot of hate fiber.

191 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:04:17pm

re: #189 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Damn good question. I really can’t wait to see the excuses you get if any responses at all.

192 Lidane  Jun 22, 2015 3:04:29pm

re: #176 Patricia Kayden

If it’s a Democratic issue, shouldn’t Republicans be supporting its take down? Who is actually keeping it flying in S.C.’s capitol?

I’ve been asking RWNJ dipshits this question all afternoon when I keep getting the TEH DEMZ PUT UP TEH FLAG IN TEH FIRST PLACE meme.

If the Democrats put the flag up and the GOP hate it so much, why haven’t they been able to take it down? They’ve had control of the SC legislature and governorship since 2001.

193 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:04:41pm

re: #190 The Vicious Babushka

They lose it but they fill up again very quickly. They eat a lot of hate fiber.

Mr. Hatey, the Hateful poo.

194 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 3:05:09pm

Cool, I was looking at subscribing to Sirius because my new (used) car has a built-in radio, and they offer a free 2-month trial even though it’s used.

Last couple days, I’ve spent almost the entire time flipping through channels trying to find something to listen to. Every classic rock station plays the same 30 songs all day, and top 40 is unlistenable.

195 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:05:44pm

re: #192 Lidane

I’ve been asking RWNJ dipshits this question all afternoon when I keep getting the TEH DEMZ PUT UP TEH FLAG IN TEH FIRST PLACE meme.

If the Democrats put the flag up and the GOP hate it so much, why haven’t they been able to take it down? They’ve had control of the SC legislature and governorship since 2001.

And furthermore why did Haley criticize the Democratic candidate for governor and lt governor that advocated taking it down? If the Republicans in SC really oppose the CSA flag, they’ve got a funny as hell way of showing it.

196 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:08:27pm

I don’t remember the 2000 primaries that well but wasn’t that some controversy then and I think perhaps McCain in one of his better moments denounced the flag and Bush’s people started smearing him not long after that.

197 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 3:08:50pm

re: #40 Kryptik

I’ve always been unhappy with the whole ‘War On Terror!’ idea.

It raises a bunch of nuttier murderers to the status of a nation. You can only go to war against nations. Declaring war on them gives them a status they do not deserve.

It also gives them plenty of incentive to continues their terrorism. “See? We’re important!” they think. So they keep on planning more murders.

If they were just criminals we probably wouldn’t get so exercised about it and they wouldn’t appear as important to themselves or to others.

198 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 3:09:01pm

re: #190 The Vicious Babushka

They lose it but they fill up again very quickly. They eat a lot of hate fiber.


Hulu Video

199 jaunte  Jun 22, 2015 3:13:00pm

re: #188 Romantic Heretic

I wasn’t aware they ever had their shit.

They’ll need it for daubing their manifestos on the wall.

200 dholmes32  Jun 22, 2015 3:15:05pm

re: #94 Dr Lizardo

This Freeper (VRWCmember), in response to another Freeper, articulates quite well how I think a good many of the RWNJ’s feel about the Stars and Bars.

Just damn. There really is no reaching some folks is there? They really do live in an alternate reality - a complete different worldview than the rest of the US.

That’s just horse####. I’m sorry, all this agrarian nonsense covers up the fact that the South’s wealth was built on the back of slavery.

(And the North’s too. Yale University has a web page about how it inherited slaves from Jonathan Edwards and others in the pre-Revolutionary War period.)

201 jaunte  Jun 22, 2015 3:16:20pm

Profiles in Courage.

202 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 3:16:20pm

Except for that “Top Conservative News” website he followed.

203 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 3:18:02pm
204 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 3:19:08pm

re: #202 The Vicious Babushka

205 unproven innocence  Jun 22, 2015 3:22:51pm

re: #140 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

For some reason my browser keeps snapping back up to the top of the page about every 30 seconds.

Mine had done that a few times, but randomly, and more rarely. [edit] Like right after hitting the Post button, this time.

206 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 3:24:34pm

re: #94 Dr Lizardo

This Freeper (VRWCmember), in response to another Freeper, articulates quite well how I think a good many of the RWNJ’s feel about the Stars and Bars.

Just damn. There really is no reaching some folks is there? They really do live in an alternate reality - a complete different worldview than the rest of the US.

They do on a lot of things.

207 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 3:25:58pm

re: #130 Dr. Matt

It’s fucking sad and pathetic that it takes 9 people murdered for South Carolina to remove that piece of shit rag.

corrected for ragpo (rage-induced typo)

It ain’t gone yet…

208 piratedan  Jun 22, 2015 3:29:22pm

re: #194 Timothy Watson

channel 6 plays the 60’s, 7 the 70’s etc

25 70’s and 80’ classic rock
26 60’s and 70’s classic rock
27 for stuff off of the albums
33 - first wave (80’s new wave stuff… expect heavy doses of the Cure and Smith’s)
66 - smooth jazz (watercolors, I like this station a lot)
36 - Alt nation

209 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 3:32:26pm

4.1 13 km northeast of Edmond, OK.
They had a 3.7 quake there an hour ago.

210 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 3:36:03pm

re: #115 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I think the lesson here is that if you’re a politician that panders to right-wing lunatics, they’ll turn on you as soon as you do anything remotely decent. Once you go to the dark side, you’re stuck there.

211 blueraven  Jun 22, 2015 3:36:28pm
212 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 3:37:34pm

re: #211 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Skewed.

213 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 22, 2015 3:39:28pm

re: #207 BeachDem

It ain’t gone yet…

That flag might come down if a sufficiency of the moneyed interests in South Carolina politics say it will come down. Me? I think that more than one-third of the SC state lege are going to dig their heels in on the issue. That will leave the flag right where it is and give cover to Haley and Graham.

214 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 3:40:07pm

re: #211 blueraven

[Embedded content]

I think the numbers will get worse for Bush against Hillary after he has to go so far right and off the cliff during the debates.

215 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 3:40:23pm

re: #168 Dr. Matt

Too broad. If he said he’d lead the battle, OTOH….

216 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 3:41:09pm

re: #213 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Exactly-they can say “We tried” and walk free.

217 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 3:41:23pm

re: #113 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

This is considered bad?

What do they think Christianity is?

Christianity is sending sinners to Hell as they so richly deserve!!11!1ty

218 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 3:41:46pm

re: #214 Tigger2

I think the numbers will get worse for Bush against Hillary after he has to go right off the cliff during the debates.

219 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 3:41:46pm
220 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 3:42:10pm

re: #216 Eric The Fruit Bat

Exactly-they can say “We tried” and walk free.

There should be a name for that kind of operation…

221 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 3:43:14pm

re: #114 Nyet

Adolf Shaevich: I wouldn’t hang them myself, but I would support those who hang them.

Translation: I’m too good to do my own killing.

222 Targetpractice  Jun 22, 2015 3:44:26pm

re: #211 blueraven

[Embedded content]

“But Emailghazigate was supposed to have finished her! The libruls all want Bernie Sanders! THIS ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING THIS WAY!!!”

223 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 3:46:15pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yep, He’s proud of what he did in the Terri Schiavo case he was bragging about it the other day on TV saying he took Terri’s side, He took the side of someone that had know idea what was going on and couldn’t make her wishes known. Jeb is such a a dumbass.

224 allegro  Jun 22, 2015 3:47:34pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

“But Emailghazigate was supposed to have finished her! The libruls all want Bernie Sanders! THIS ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING THIS WAY!!!”

It’s all Twitter’s fault for banning CCJ - he had the plan that was going to fer sher take Hillary out!

///

225 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 3:47:36pm

re: #223 Tigger2

He’s proud of what he did in the Terri Schiavo case he was bragging about it the other day on TV saying he took Terri’s side, He took the side of someone that had know idea what was going on and couldn’t make her wishes known. Jeb is such a a dumbass.

He’s trying to appeal to a subculture with an upside-down worldview. Who knows if he actually shares that worldview, or just cynically exploits the rubes?

226 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 3:47:43pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

“But Emailghazigate was supposed to have finished her! The libruls all want Bernie Sanders! THIS ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING THIS WAY!!!”

Reince Priebus’ life is just one long string of potty catastrophes.

227 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 3:48:07pm

re: #216 Eric The Fruit Bat

Exactly-they can say “We tried” and walk free.

That’s what I always hated about the song Sweet Home Alabama. “Well, we all did what we could do…”

Oh well, we tried, but you know that’s the way it goes.

And now my page keeps jumping to the end

228 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 3:49:13pm

There is some autoplay video in the ad area that I think is the cuplrit

229 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 22, 2015 3:49:29pm

re: #225 No Country For Old Haters

He’s trying to appeal to a subculture with an upside-down worldview. Who knows if he actually shares that worldview, or just cynically exploits the rubes?

I’ll take Door #2…

230 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 3:50:18pm

re: #224 allegro

It’s all Twitter’s fault for banning CCJ - he had the plan that was going to fer sher take Hillary out!

///

I really think the Charleston shooter handed Hillary the election. She was the likely winner anyway, but she locked in the African American vote with her excellent speech on the shooting. At the same time Republicans are energizing their opponents by pandering to Confederates. It’s yet another own-goal by RWNJs.

231 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 3:51:07pm

re: #229 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I’ll take Door #2…

I lean that way as well, but we should never underestimate human stupidity.

232 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 3:51:14pm

I said last week I was going on a “Pie-atus” but that was only for dessert pie.

233 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 3:51:22pm

re: #230 No Country For Old Haters

Disagree. With Haley taking one for the team, the GOP candidates can pander to their hearts’ content.

234 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 3:52:01pm
235 Eventual Carrion  Jun 22, 2015 3:52:19pm

re: #67 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Conservative, Libertarian, Independent, and my momma dresses me funny.

236 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 3:53:51pm

That should take care of any wingnuts who were going to give her a pass.

237 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 3:55:01pm

re: #199 jaunte

They’ll need it for daubing their manifestos on the wall.

Ah. The famous 93 Feces.

238 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 3:55:48pm

re: #236 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That should take care of any wingnuts who were going to give her a pass.

239 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:56:08pm

re: #234 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Good article. I especially love seeing the myths about the South and states rights destroyed.

240 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:56:46pm

re: #238 No Country For Old Haters

[Embedded content]

Yep same. I hope she can persuade enough Republicans to vote Yes because it’s up to them being the majority in the state legislature if it passes or fails.

241 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 3:56:54pm

re: #234 Kragar

A great point from the article:
“First, Americans are wondrous optimists, looking to the upper class and expecting to join it someday. In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people support the extension of George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy now.”

242 Jenner7  Jun 22, 2015 3:58:30pm
243 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 3:58:57pm

re: #241 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War.

South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery

244 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:59:16pm

re: #241 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

A great point from the article:
“First, Americans are wondrous optimists, looking to the upper class and expecting to join it someday. In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people support the extension of George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy now.”

Yes. That was a good point. Slavery was also okay with many low income whites because they could always poitn to slaves and say “Well at least “I’m not a slave”, abolition threatened that.

245 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 3:59:50pm

re: #242 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Why is Obama politicizing this?///

246 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:00:34pm

re: #242 Jenner7

White House official: President Obama, first lady, vice president to attend Pinckney’s funeral Friday

Let’s hope the Secret Service is clean and sober.

247 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 4:01:38pm

re: #115 Kragar

248 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 4:02:14pm

re: #244 HappyWarrior

Yes. That was a good point. Slavery was also okay with many low income whites because they could always poitn to slaves and say “Well at least “I’m not a slave”, abolition threatened that.

The same way stupid white failures think “at least I’m better than those N-clangs” Humanity doesn’t change much over the years.

249 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:02:17pm

While I don’t play them, I still love Orks.

250 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 4:07:20pm

re: #249 Kragar

While I don’t play them, I still love Orks.

Embedded Image

Wasn’t Mork an Ork?

251 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 4:07:34pm

re: #242 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

252 unproven innocence  Jun 22, 2015 4:09:55pm

re: #250 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Wasn’t Mork an Ork?

Mork from Ork, as I recall.

253 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:09:59pm

re: #248 No Country For Old Haters

The same way stupid white failures think “at least I’m better than those N-clangs” Humanity doesn’t change much over the years.

My American history professor always said that was a legacy of Bacon’s Rebellion.Bacon’s Rebellion wasn’t something I thought too hard about when I first learned about in fourth grade in Virginia history but that professor, a Georgian pointed out its implications long after Bacon’s death in 1676.

254 #FergusonFireside  Jun 22, 2015 4:10:23pm
255 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:10:50pm

re: #254 #FergusonFireside

[Embedded content]

Good.

256 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:10:58pm

re: #250 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Wasn’t Mork an Ork?

Ignore any grammatical similarities

257 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 4:11:30pm

re: #252 unproven innocence

That makes Mork an Ork.

258 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:11:37pm

re: #254 #FergusonFireside

[Embedded content]

I hope this is something that catches on all across the country.

259 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:11:40pm

re: #254 #FergusonFireside

[Embedded content]

Far more significant than anything the SC legislature could do.

260 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 4:11:57pm

re: #256 Kragar

Ignore any grammatical similarities

I don’t wanna.

261 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:12:16pm

re: #258 Tigger2

I hope this is something that catches on all across the country.

I hope so.

262 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:12:51pm

re: #258 Tigger2

I hope this is something that catches on all across the country.

The local flea market more than satisfies all my confederate memorabilia needs.

263 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:14:43pm

Thankfully no word from Palin on this massacre yet and I hope it stays that way

264 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:14:55pm

re: #262 Decatur Deb

The local flea market more than satisfies all my confederate memorabilia needs.

Well they do sell a lot of worthless shit at flea markets.

265 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:15:35pm

re: #254 #FergusonFireside

[Embedded content]

And probably add them back when the heat dies down.

(Yes, I’m a perpetual cynic.)

266 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:15:58pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

Thankfully no word from Palin on this massacre yet and I hope it stays that way

Wonkette had a post about her being on vacation or something.

267 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Jun 22, 2015 4:16:38pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

Thankfully no word from Palin on this massacre yet and I hope it stays that way

Palin doesn’t go out on a limb. She’s waiting to see which way the wind blew on this.

268 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:16:51pm

re: #266 Timothy Watson

Wonkette had a post about her being on vacation or something.

Hopefully stays that way. Cannot wait to hear how Ms. My Husband belonged to a secessionist party thinks the CSA was liberal.//

269 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:17:20pm

re: #267 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Palin doesn’t go out on a limb. She’s waiting to see which way the wind blew on this.

Well I am hoping the bad poetry jam comes when I am out of town myself. Fortunately, I am going to be quite busy this July.

270 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:17:42pm

re: #264 Tigger2

Well they do sell a lot of worthless shit at flee markets.

My needs are simple. (Seriously, there are usually about 3 semi-permanent stands that specialize in it… And nunchuks, lots of nunchuks. )

271 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:19:19pm
272 austin_blue  Jun 22, 2015 4:19:42pm

Getting ready for tonight’s USWT match, but just want to chime in.

Stormfront was formed in 1990. Four years later, Dylann’s daddy named him Storm Roof. See what he did there?

Also, at the NYT, three relevant OpEds:

nytimes.com

nytimes.com

and

nytimes.com

Good, but depressing, stuff.

273 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:21:00pm

re: #270 Decatur Deb

My needs are simple. (Seriously, there are usually about 3 semi-permanent stands that specialize in it… And nunchuks, lots of nunchuks. )

I know, I have been to flea markets in Indiana and they have stands that sell that junk.

274 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:22:56pm

re: #273 Tigger2

I know, I have been to flea markets in Indiana and they have stands that sell that junk.

Ah. Indiana or, as we call it, “Far Northern Alabama”.

275 Ace-o-aces  Jun 22, 2015 4:23:43pm

re: #254 #FergusonFireside

276 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 22, 2015 4:24:28pm

Bet all these Confederate flags these idiots are waving around are made in China.

277 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:24:29pm

re: #274 Decatur Deb

Ah. Indiana or, as we call it, “Far Northern Alabama”.

LOL, Thank god my City has a lot of Dems. We a pretty much a blue county in a sea of red.

278 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 4:24:31pm
279 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 4:24:35pm

re: #259 Decatur Deb

Far more significant than anything the SC legislature could do.

Yep. Good for them.

280 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 4:25:45pm

re: #276 GlutenFreeJesus

Bet all these Confederate flags these idiots are waving around are made in China.

Well, at least it’s slave labor.

281 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 4:26:22pm

re: #271 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Now that is surprising. Good for Walmart (better late than never). So this is going to be a trend now, I hope.

282 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 4:27:34pm

re: #162 No Country For Old Haters

re: #271 Kragar

283 unproven innocence  Jun 22, 2015 4:28:22pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I figure that’s why SC isn’t well-known for soul music.

284 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 4:29:05pm

Our new hashtag: #thetideisturning

(Roger Waters: The Tide Is Turning)

285 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 4:29:13pm

OK, folks - we’re on the final countdown to the launch of the LGF front page reboot. I’ve been tweaking stuff like mad today, trying to eliminate all the loose ends I can find. This might be the last beta version before release:

littlegreenfootballs.com

286 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 4:29:32pm

re: #274 Decatur Deb

Ah. Indiana or, as we call it, “Far Northern Alabama”.

Dudes I know that live in Indy told me they refer to it as America’s middle finger.

Look at some of the blue-red election maps.

287 Schadenboner  Jun 22, 2015 4:29:42pm

re: #272 austin_blue

Getting ready for tonight’s USWT match, but just want to chime in.

Stormfront was formed in 1990. Four years later, Dylann’s daddy named him Storm Roof. See what he did there?

Sorta disagree. In 1994 Stormfront was still an amazingly minor website. And the (“alleged”) shooter says he didn’t grow up in a racist house. A parent that dedicated to Stormfront is not going to have one of those.

288 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:30:31pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

OK, folks - we’re on the final countdown to the launch of the LGF front page reboot. I’ve been tweaking stuff like mad today, trying to eliminate all the loose ends I can find. This might be the last beta version before release:

littlegreenfootballs.com

Like it, looks great.

289 A Cranky One  Jun 22, 2015 4:32:01pm

So Upchuck actually filed a libel suit, the Donald actually filed paperwork with the FEC to run for president and a Republican governor in SC actually called for the “stars and bars” to be removed from the capitol.

Can Armageddon be far behind?

/

290 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 22, 2015 4:32:13pm

re: #287 Schadenboner

A racist isn’t going to think their environment is racist.

291 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:32:58pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

She doesn’t realize it but she’s admitting what the problem is.

292 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:33:11pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

OK, folks - we’re on the final countdown to the launch of the LGF front page reboot. I’ve been tweaking stuff like mad today, trying to eliminate all the loose ends I can find. This might be the last beta version before release:

littlegreenfootballs.com

I’ve got the music on standby…

…

293 Teukka  Jun 22, 2015 4:33:56pm

re: #289 A Cranky One

So Upchuck actually filed a libel suit, the Donald actually filed paperwork with the FEC to run for president and a Republican governor in SC actually called for the “stars and bars” to be removed from the capitol.

Can Armageddon be far behind?

/

Please, don’t give them that idea..
*ducks behind sandbags, dons brainbucket and flak jacket*

294 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 4:34:28pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jonathon Burns ends up getting himself sanctioned by the Missouri Bar for filing that frivolous piece of shit libel suit on Chuck’s behalf. It’s that awful.

295 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 4:34:29pm

re: #290 GlutenFreeJesus

A racist isn’t going to think their environment is racist.

I agree with that but I would be surprised if the older Roof knew what Stormfront was in 1994 enough to name his son after it. Just for perspective but we didn’t have our first computer until around that time and from what I know about Dylann’s upbringing, it wasn’t as well off as mine. Not saying Austin’s definitely wrong here either but I’d be surprised if Stormfront influenced the name.

296 eeisler  Jun 22, 2015 4:35:03pm

Whoa. CNN reporting Walmart will no longer sell confederate flag merchandise. Hey, it might come down after all.

297 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:35:08pm

re: #286 ObserverArt

Dudes in know that live in Indy told me they refer to it as America’s middle finger.

Look at some of the blue-red election maps.

I’m in Vigo County west central Indiana

298 unproven innocence  Jun 22, 2015 4:35:23pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

Looking good.

299 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 4:35:51pm

#TheTideIsTurning

300 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 4:38:08pm

re: #292 Kragar

I’ve got the music on standby…

[Embedded content]

Video

HAIR BANDS FOREVER

301 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:38:14pm

I really wish a professor would post the final grades for a class (same professor I was bitching about last week).

302 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 4:38:29pm

re: #297 Tigger2

I’m in Vigo County west central Indiana

Embedded Image

Indiana is America’s Middle Finger - West Virginia the thumb!
303 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:39:05pm
304 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:39:53pm

re: #292 Kragar

I’ve got the music on standby…

[Embedded content]

Video

Man, I’m glad I missed the ’80s (born 1987).

I’ll get off your lawn now.

305 Schadenboner  Jun 22, 2015 4:40:56pm

re: #303 Kragar

Cupcake Dog has a sibling!

306 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:40:57pm

re: #304 Timothy Watson

Man, I’m glad I missed the ’80s (born 1987).

I’ll get off your lawn now.

What about Def Leppard?

…

307 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:41:36pm

re: #302 ObserverArt

[Embedded content]

We have a lot of crazy church people here that’s the reason Ind is so red.

308 A Cranky One  Jun 22, 2015 4:42:12pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

OK, folks - we’re on the final countdown to the launch of the LGF front page reboot. I’ve been tweaking stuff like mad today, trying to eliminate all the loose ends I can find. This might be the last beta version before release:

littlegreenfootballs.com

I like that the scheme is also used on the RSS feeds pages.

I also really like how you display the timestamp and contents of the last comment when you hover the mouse over the button showing the number of comments. Very nice, I like that much more than the older scheme.

Will you still have the links to the top and bottom comments, tools, statistics, etc.? Will Frank still say?

309 William Lewis  Jun 22, 2015 4:43:55pm

re: #249 Kragar

heh. If I ever try that game it will be simply to play Orks.

310 b.d.  Jun 22, 2015 4:44:31pm

Are the wingnuts threatening to boycott Wal*Mart?

I does help that Wal*Mart is a southern based company too.

311 Patricia Kayden  Jun 22, 2015 4:44:33pm

re: #211 blueraven

[Embedded content]

She needs to be going after the Republicans now. I’d love to see her over 50% against Bush.

312 ObserverArt  Jun 22, 2015 4:44:34pm

re: #307 Tigger2

We have a lot of crazy church people here that’s the reason Ind is so red.

I am a long time Indy car racing fan. I’ve learned a lot about the state. Also, I live one state east. Many similarities.

313 A Cranky One  Jun 22, 2015 4:44:50pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

HAIR BANDS FOREVER

There go my dreams of being a professional musician. Guess I don’t have the qualifications. ;)

314 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 4:45:11pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

I can live with this.

315 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:45:27pm

re: #309 William Lewis

heh. If I ever try that game it will be simply to play Orks.

316 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:45:57pm

re: #310 b.d.

Are the wingnuts threatening to boycott Wal*Mart?

I does help that Wal*Mart is a southern based company too.

First them helping the government implement Jade Helm, and now this? Geez, how long until there’s a Wingnut-Mart?

317 Tigger2  Jun 22, 2015 4:46:03pm

re: #312 ObserverArt

I am a long time Indy car racing fan. I’ve learned a lot about the state. Also, I live one state east. Many similarities.

Yep we are called the Bible Belt .

318 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 4:46:45pm

WTFITS
Ben Shapiro retweeted

319 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 4:47:34pm

re: #318 The Vicious Babushka

WTFITS
Ben Shapiro retweeted

[Embedded content]

Christ, don’t look at his timeline.

320 William Lewis  Jun 22, 2015 4:47:38pm

re: #289 A Cranky One

So Upchuck actually filed a libel suit, the Donald actually filed paperwork with the FEC to run for president and a Republican governor in SC actually called for the “stars and bars” to be removed from the capitol.

Can Armageddon be far behind?

/

Just posted a page about one of the top digital photographers buying a film camera… Yeah, makes you wonder in a way.

321 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 4:48:19pm

re: #315 Kragar

The Grot Tanks are sill the cutest models in the range IMO.

322 William Lewis  Jun 22, 2015 4:49:36pm

re: #292 Kragar

I’ve got the music on standby…

[Embedded content]

Talk about a classic guilty pleasure song.

323 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 4:49:49pm

HELP!! Just posted my page about the SC flag, but it only shows about 1/2 of it—went in and edited and still the same. What am I doing wrong?

324 Kragar  Jun 22, 2015 4:51:54pm

re: #321 goddamnedfrank

The Grot Tanks are sill the cutest models in the range IMO.

[Embedded content]

But on the flip side, they’re still fricking Grots.

Now this weekend, I got rid of all my Tau stuff, but I kept the Kroots just in case they do get around to the Kroot Merc armies again.

325 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 22, 2015 4:52:38pm

re: #304 Timothy Watson

Man, I’m glad I missed the ’80s (born 1987).

I’ll get off your lawn now.

The 70s were much worse. Among other things, the fashion police took the decade off:

There was also the truly unspeakable sub-culture and “music” fad known as Disco, whose only redeeming feature was its unique ability to unify hippies and rednecks alike in their mutually shared detestation of the phenomenon.

326 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 4:52:56pm

re: #323 BeachDem

HELP!! Just posted my page about the SC flag, but it only shows about 1/2 of it—went in and edited and still the same. What am I doing wrong?

Look at the paragraph that starts “During the 2000 fight…”

There’s an improperly closed em tag at the end of it. Missing the final angled bracket.

327 Schadenboner  Jun 22, 2015 4:53:20pm

re: #324 Kragar

But on the flip side, they’re still fricking Grots.

They’re dirt-cheap BS 3, what’s not to like? On the other hand, IIRC they’re Fast choices in an army that isn’t hurting for them.

328 bratwurst  Jun 22, 2015 4:54:32pm
329 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 4:54:54pm

HURR HURR LIBTARD HEAR IS A CLINTON/GORE BUTTON FROM 1992!! UR ARGUMENT IS IN VALID!!!!!!

330 BeachDem  Jun 22, 2015 4:56:17pm

re: #326 Charles Johnson

Look at the paragraph that starts “During the 2000 fight…”

There’s an improperly closed em tag at the end of it. Missing the final angled bracket.

Whew—thanks for the fast response, Charles. Fixed it.

I had already had to create it twice because I lost it while searching for suggested tags and was about to give up for good!

331 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 4:59:01pm

Ugh, I can’t stand that idiot, Chris Cillizza. He’s over at WaPo whitesplaining Nikki Haley’s “tremendous political upside”. Someone hand me a barf bag…

332 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:03:24pm

Heh, don’t know if anyone has posted this.

333 unproven innocence  Jun 22, 2015 5:04:38pm

re: #332 CuriousLurker

Heh, don’t know if anyone has posted this.

[Embedded content]

A fine example of damning with faint praise.

334 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 5:04:44pm

re: #320 William Lewis

That was always one thing that made me wonder what happened when it came to photography as it moved from analog to digital when it came to forensics; especially with things like Photoshop being able to do manipulation of images whereas with negatives its what you have is what you got.

335 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 5:05:51pm

re: #333 unproven innocence

More like praising with faint damns.

336 #FergusonFireside  Jun 22, 2015 5:05:52pm
337 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:06:35pm

re: #336 #FergusonFireside

LMAO

338 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 22, 2015 5:07:39pm
339 allegro  Jun 22, 2015 5:09:27pm

re: #338 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I think that headline is all that needs to be said.

340 Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 22, 2015 5:11:04pm

re: #338 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That makes perfect sense! No grease stains from spills on your clothes!

341 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:11:13pm

re: #334 Eric The Fruit Bat

That was always one thing that made me wonder what happened when it came to photography as it moved from analog to digital when it came to forensics; especially with things like Photoshop being able to do manipulation of images whereas with negatives its what you have is what you got.

Well, your RAW files are basically your negatives. I would guess that photographers need to be able to produce them on demand. I watched a YouTube video a while back where the host had an interview with an Israeli photojournalist and had talked about how he regularly had to submit RAW files. I would assume that the specialists who do forensic examinations of photos can tell if one of them has been tinkered with.

342 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 22, 2015 5:11:59pm

re: #338 Backwoods_Sleuth

She looks…convivial.

343 D_Red  Jun 22, 2015 5:13:04pm

re: #318 The Vicious Babushka

You don’t remember when the Nazis invaded America to put an end to white supremacy?

344 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jun 22, 2015 5:14:58pm

re: #341 CuriousLurker

I question that-anything in the digital domain, short of embedded MDACs, are going to be prone to some form of doctoring.

345 teleskiguy  Jun 22, 2015 5:16:10pm
346 Decatur Deb  Jun 22, 2015 5:19:02pm

re: #340 Blind Frog Belly White

That makes perfect sense! No grease stains from spills on your clothes!

You think mozzarella burns on your palate are bad?

347 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:19:10pm

re: #344 Eric The Fruit Bat

I question that-anything in the digital domain, short of embedded MDACs, are going to be prone to some form of doctoring.

Well, I don’t know enough about traditional film photography or photo forensics to argue the point, so okay.

348 Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 22, 2015 5:19:19pm

re: #345 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Oops.

349 Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 22, 2015 5:21:07pm

re: #346 Decatur Deb

You think mozzarella burns on your palate are bad?

Well, we tend to get delivery, so it’s always the perfect temp for stuffing in your pie hole.

350 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 5:21:16pm

re: #341 CuriousLurker

Well, your RAW files are basically your negatives. I would guess that photographers need to be able to produce them on demand. I watched a YouTube video a while back where the host had an interview with an Israeli photojournalist and had talked about how he regularly had to submit RAW files. I would assume that the specialists who do forensic examinations of photos can tell if one of them has been tinkered with.

Nope. Any RAW file can be faked. Both Nikon and Canon tried to produce an authentication protocol for forensic photographers, but each one ended up getting cracked, so basically we’re back to square one.

351 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:23:46pm

re: #350 goddamnedfrank

Nope. Any RAW file can be faked. Both Nikon and Canon tried to produce an authentication protocol for forensic photographers, but each one ended up getting cracked, so basically we’re back to square one.

Thanks, that good to know. I was hoping you’d eventually chime in on that.

352 Belafon  Jun 22, 2015 5:27:04pm

I went looking for the picture of the Confederate flag of surrender, and found this interesting fact:

The last Confederate surrender occurred on November 6, 1865, when the Confederate warship CSS Shenandoah surrendered at Liverpool, England.

en.wikipedia.org

353 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:29:54pm

Welp, there went Ben Carson’s chances (not that he ever had much of any). I wonder if he’s rethinking being part of the GOP yet… Nah, prolly not.

Ben Carson slams GOP 2016 rivals ‘who dare not call this tragedy an act of racism’

Ben Carson called out his fellow Republican presidential candidates for their reluctance to call the South Carolina church shootings an “act of racism,” chastising them for letting politics get in way of confronting “a sickness that is crippling our nation.” […]

354 teleskiguy  Jun 22, 2015 5:33:16pm

A RWNJ with over 58,000 followers (@TexasAuthor) just followed me on Twitter. I ain’t sayin’ anything to him, just keeping him at arms length for the time being. Something I tweet down the line will set him off, then I’ll block him.

355 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 5:33:20pm

re: #345 teleskiguy

Someone told the truth at National Review, and their readers are pissed. The comments there are idiotic.

356 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 5:34:03pm

If I were designing an image authentication protocol today it would involve a DLSR connected to a laptop running a dedicated encryption suite, requiring a secondary USB security fob and an internet connection. Each RAW file would be simultaneously uploaded, as it was taken, to a cloud service run by the authenticating corporation. The software would also come with a unique, pre-measured Gretag Macbeth color checker and fine line resolution chart that the photographer should place within the scene at the beginning of every shoot.

It would be a subscription service that costs tens of thousands of dollars a year. Only municipal police departments and the FBI would be able to afford it.

357 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 5:35:16pm

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

358 Timothy Watson  Jun 22, 2015 5:37:18pm

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

[Embedded content]

Going through your life as a twit is no way to live.

359 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 5:37:39pm
360 thedopefishlives  Jun 22, 2015 5:38:55pm

re: #359 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Eh, doesn’t really depress me, anyway. Lots of good info out there about how epic fail The Donald really is. Let ‘em search.

361 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 5:39:27pm

And the thing about forensic photography is, the image is only as good as the presumption that the person who took it didn’t doctor / tamper with the scene. At the end of the day it’s all about professionalism, reputation and the benefit of the doubt. You can never bypass that with fancy technology.

362 makeitstop  Jun 22, 2015 5:41:05pm

re: #346 Decatur Deb

You think mozzarella burns on your palate are bad?

Yeah, and hot pizza means hot grease. Ow.

363 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 22, 2015 5:45:43pm

STUPIDEST MEME OF THE DAY==>
Gun-fuckers want the Pope to be assassinated

364 CuriousLurker  Jun 22, 2015 5:47:16pm

re: #361 goddamnedfrank

And the thing about forensic photography is, the image is only as good as the presumption that the person who took it didn’t doctor / tamper with the scene. At the end of the day it’s all about professionalism, reputation and the benefit of the doubt. You can never bypass that with fancy technology.

I was kinda wondering about that as I know there were photo hoaxes in the days before digital photography, and I know (albeit only vaguely) that how film is developed can greatly affect the final result.

That said, I wasn’t eager to argue over something I know very little about as that generally ends up making one look like an idiot.

365 Mike Lamb  Jun 22, 2015 5:48:19pm

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

[Embedded content]

Racially united behind “legitimate grievances”, Ben?

366 No Country For Old Haters  Jun 22, 2015 5:48:59pm
367 b.d.  Jun 22, 2015 5:50:29pm

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

[Embedded content]

“Amazing show of racial unity?”

I guessed I missed that part

368 Charles Johnson  Jun 22, 2015 5:51:21pm

re: #354 teleskiguy

A RWNJ with over 58,000 followers (@TexasAuthor) just followed me on Twitter. I ain’t sayin’ anything to him, just keeping him at arms length for the time being. Something I tweet down the line will set him off, then I’ll block him.

When I see someone like this follow me, I sometimes block then immediately unblock them. I call this the “silent unfollow” technique because the block causes them to stop following, but the unblock usually prevents them from realizing it.

369 teleskiguy  Jun 22, 2015 5:53:58pm

re: #368 Charles Johnson

That’s interesting! Thanks for the tip!

370 makeitstop  Jun 22, 2015 5:54:06pm

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

[Embedded content]

That kid’s gonna die young. That much vitriol will burn you up.

371 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 5:54:33pm

re: #363 The Vicious Babushka

STUPIDEST MEME OF THE DAY==>
Gun-fuckers want the Pope to be assassinated

[Embedded content]

Using this moronic logic, I could argue that conservatives should be denied health care coverage but because I am not a dishonest right wing idealogue, I won’t argue that. Tough shit wingnuts, Francis has every right to criticize the gun business and it is a dirty business.

372 goddamnedfrank  Jun 22, 2015 5:55:29pm

Lastly, negatives can be faked too. It’s called “film-out,” transferring a digital file to film. You won’t see too much future use of it however as it was a bridge technology that has been entirely superseded by advances in digital projection.

373 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 5:55:47pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

OK, folks - we’re on the final countdown to the launch of the LGF front page reboot. I’ve been tweaking stuff like mad today, trying to eliminate all the loose ends I can find. This might be the last beta version before release:

littlegreenfootballs.com

I like that a lot. Very clean layout. Draws the eye to the top story.

374 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 5:57:25pm

re: #370 makeitstop

That kid’s gonna die young. That much vitriol will burn you up.

He also seems clueless about that flag’s role in Antisemitism too. In fact, Ben taking down the flag will actually have people understanding for once that the CSA wasn’t a valiant cause but I get it you have your head up every right wing fundamentalist Christian’s ass because you’re so desperate for them to accept you.

375 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 22, 2015 5:58:41pm

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Ben desperately wants the MOAST STUPIDS OF TEH TWITTERS place that was vacated by Chucky.

[Embedded content]

Shapiro has seriously stepped in it. You see, the initial US commander at Okinawa, Lt. General Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr., was in fact well known for racism.

Earlier in the war, he had commanded troops in Alaska. A southerner and avowed racist, when told he would be commanding black troops, he vehemently opposed it. He said that he feared they would cross breed with the native alaskans and produce “the ugliest race the world has ever seen.”

Nevertheless, General Bucknerordered the removal of Confederate flags when he saw them being flown by some US units.

During the bloody battle of Okinawa, late in World War II, Army Lt. Gen. Simon B. Buckner Jr., saw a Marine unit flying the Confederate flag over a position. Buckner, himself the son of a Confederate general, ordered it taken down. “Americans from all over are involved in this battle,” he said.

This might be the very episode in Shapiro’s photo.
Buckner was killed by Japanese artillery fire 3 days before the battle ended, the highest ranking American officer killed by the enemy in World War II.

376 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 5:59:41pm

re: #366 No Country For Old Haters

[Embedded content]

The flag itself didn’t kill anyone but it is a white supremacist flag. Want to own one, I won’t stop you but get that goddamn thing out of our state capitols. IT’s not my flag. It’s the flag of a bunch of bigoted dicks that couldn’t accept Abraham Lincoln’s election was legitimate and that slavery would no longer be expanded.

377 HappyWarrior  Jun 22, 2015 6:00:58pm

re: #375 Shiplord Kirel

The initial US commander at Okinawa, Lt. General Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr., was in fact well known for racism.

Nevertheless, General Bucknerordered the removal of Confederate flags when he saw them being flown by some US units.

This might be the very episode in Shapiro’s photo.
Buckner was killed by Japanese artillery fire 3 days before the battle ended, the highest ranking American officer killed by the enemy in World War II.

His grandfather was a CSA general. If he could realize the problem with the flag, then I think a little shit like Ben should.

378 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 6:02:57pm

re: #309 William Lewis

heh. If I ever try that game it will be simply to play Orks.

Try this game sometime: Dawn of War 2

379 Romantic Heretic  Jun 22, 2015 6:08:07pm

re: #363 The Vicious Babushka

STUPIDEST MEME OF THE DAY==>
Gun-fuckers want the Pope to be assassinated

[Embedded content]

Their tag line should read Enemies of Humanity’.

380 Eventual Carrion  Jun 22, 2015 6:11:27pm

re: #352 Belafon

I went looking for the picture of the Confederate flag of surrender, and found this interesting fact:

en.wikipedia.org

They just wanted to catch the Beatles concert.

381 Schadenboner  Jun 22, 2015 6:55:58pm

re: #378 Romantic Heretic

Try this game sometime: Dawn of War 2

The first one is, overall (and in my opinion, obviously) far superior.

Avoid the tabletop game though, GW is firmly into the “churn and burn” portion of the death-spiral.

The DoW games and the FFG RPGs (Dark Heresy, Only War, &c.) are really good though.

382 Lancelot Link  Jun 22, 2015 8:47:02pm

re: #325 Shiplord Kirel

There was also the truly unspeakable sub-culture and “music” fad known as Disco, whose only redeeming feature was its unique ability to unify hippies and rednecks alike in their mutually shared detestation of the phenomenon.

It’s unsurprising, really, that so many straight white people would object to a primarily gay and/or black style of music.


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