6 Myths About the Confederacy, Debunked

One word: slavery
History • Views: 72,725

Time to clear up some misinformation.

1) “It wasn’t about slavery.”

It was totally about slavery. How do we know that? Because the Confederate States were very clear about that particular fact in their Declarations of Secession.

Take Mississippi for example:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery— the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

Texas went as far as declaring Slavery “the revealed will of the Almighty Creator”

That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

2) “It was about States Rights!”

Specifically, it was about the Southern States objecting to the States rights of the non-slave states.

From the South Carolina Declaration of Secession:

an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

and Georgia

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slaveholding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war.

3) “The Confederate Flag just means pride in Southern Heritage.”

Not according to its creator, William T. Thompson:

“As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.”

He went on to say:

“Such a flag would be a suitable emblem of our young confederacy, and sustained by the brave hearts and strong arms of the south, it would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN’S FLAG.”

Given the fact that German neo-nazis have taken to flying the Confederate flag because Nazi symbols are banned, it looks like Thompson was right.

4) “Most Southerners weren’t slave owners and they were fighting for what they believed in.”

Most Southerners in the CSA were conscripted while slave owners received an exemption from military service due to the “Twenty Negro Law.”

The Twenty Negro Law was the popular name given to a section of the Second Conscription Act passed by the Congress of the Confederate States of America on October 11, 1862, during the American Civil War. This particular portion of that statute specifically exempted from military service one white male for every twenty slaves on a Southern plantation, or for two or more plantations within five miles of each other that collectively had twenty or more slaves. A reaction to U.S. President Abraham Lincoln’s preliminary Emancipation Proclamation issued barely three weeks earlier, the law addressed Southern fears of a slave rebellion due to so many white males being absent with the Confederate Army. It would prove extremely unpopular with poorer white Southerners, many of whom did not own slaves at all, and would contribute to the oft-repeated adage of the war being “a rich man’s war, but a poor man’s fight.”

5) “It was about taxes/tariffs.”

Obviously this issue must have been important to the South because they didn’t mention it once. In fact, Southerners had written the Tariff act of 1857, lowering tariffs to their lowest point in 40 years.

6) “The flag isn’t racist and if it is racist it was created by Democrats.”

Always a fun one. Yes, the “democrats” of the 1860s did create the flag, and at that time, they identified as conservative white supremacists.

Then 150 years of history happened, including the Civil Rights movement, when Southern Conservatives took to flying the Confederate flag as a symbol of opposition to equality, and the Republican party began its Southern Strategy, best explained by GOP strategist, Lee Atwater:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni**er, ni**er, ni**er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni**er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites…. “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni**er, ni**er.”

The KKK certainly agreed with this strategy.

“The realignment started as a backlash to the 1960s civil rights movement.” But recently published research suggests the channeling of racist attitudes into changed voting behaviors did not happen naturally, or automatically. Rather, it was due in part to the efforts of one organization: the Ku Klux Klan.

“Klan activism loosened entrenched party loyalties and directly contributed to the dealignment of white voters from the Democratic Party in the 1960s,” writes a research team led by sociologist Rory McVeigh of the University of Notre Dame. “This initial untethering process was critical to the more durable subsequent realignment with the Republican Party.”

It’s almost a given that Confederate apologists will come up with new spin to revise history, so expect this list to grow as time goes on.

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221 comments

1 CuriousLurker  Jun 26, 2015 12:34:56pm

Well done!

2 ObserverArt  Jun 26, 2015 12:43:42pm

Great job Kragar.

Hard to deny it with facts like these. But they will.

3 Teukka  Jun 26, 2015 12:59:19pm

Funny anecdote from debating the issue with wingnuts in a chat…

Some finds a quote where Lincoln mentions slavery in Russia, and this one wingnut, in his eagerness to prove the Lincoln quote false, says Russia didn’t exist back then.
Thinking he had gotten the Russia / Russian Empire thing wrong, I sought clarification on the issue, and to my suprise, the guy responded with “everyone knows it was the soviet union back then”.
I was like o.O. Then I was like O.o. Then like O-O.
Did I get my geography and history wrong, but isn’t the 1917 to 1991 era the only time Russia wasn’t Russia (well, even then a member state of the Soviet Union)?

4 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 26, 2015 1:27:48pm

Great Piece. I’ve perma-bookmarked it for reference.

Thank you.

RBS

5 dr. luba  Jun 26, 2015 1:30:41pm

re: #3 Teukka

It was part of the Golden Horde (Mongolia) until 1480, and then was Muscovy until Peter the Great changed its name in 1721. Muscovy had been a small, outlying principality during the times of Kyivan Rus; it grew by taking over other nearby principalities.

The name as changed by Peter to be better able to glom onto the history of Kyivan Rus, of which it had been a minor part.

6 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:36:05pm
It was totally about slavery. How do we know that? Because the Confederate States were very clear about that particular fact in their Declarations of Secession.

OK but besides those declarations of secession…

///

7 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 1:36:39pm

Thanks for the promotion.

8 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 1:36:45pm

Re-updings should be allowed upon promotion of a Page.

9 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 1:39:46pm

Also, Kragar, it’s rather hard to support the “It’s not about slavery” bit when you have the Confederate States VP saying this:

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away… Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the “storm came and the wind blew, it fell.”

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

… look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws.

The last bit really sticks out, when you consider how often conservatives like to excuse their hatred and refusal to accept the equality of others by saying they’re only interested in the “natural order.” You hear it all the time when they talk marriage equality, screaming that homosexuality is against the “natural order,” against God’s design, and so we can’t go creating laws that allow it.

10 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 1:41:38pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I actually had that open and was reading thru it, but got sidetracked hunting down some other materials and didn’t come back around to it.

11 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 1:42:09pm

From last thread but it works here too.

Seriously, conservatives, stop talking about your creepy ass throat fetishes.

12 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 1:43:11pm

Of course, if you’re a Sox fan, that was the best day ever!

13 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 1:43:24pm

There were 2 Democratic parties in 1860, the 1860 election was a 4-way.

14 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 1:43:47pm
15 darthstar  Jun 26, 2015 1:44:26pm
16 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 1:44:44pm
17 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:44:57pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

From last thread but it works here too.

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The KKK hates the flag? Sure as fuck fooled me since it’s a popular sight at KKK rallies.

18 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 1:45:20pm

And another item I didn’t know about until just the other day was that, in the early days of the Confederacy, Virginia’s delegates considering the matter of secession were actually 2:1 against it. Then VP Stephens came and gave his “Cornerstone” speech, making owning slaves out as a “right,” but arguing that it was a matter of ensuring the superiority of the white race. Within days of that speech, Virginia had voted overwhelmingly to secede.

19 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 1:45:25pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

20 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:45:45pm

re: #13 The Vicious Babushka

There were 2 Democratic parties in 1860, the 1860 election was a 4-way.

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Douglas was a huge unionist as were most Northern Democrats.

21 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 1:45:47pm

She’s a very special brand of stupid.

22 darthstar  Jun 26, 2015 1:46:50pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

She’s a very special brand of stupid.

[Embedded content]

Oh dear.

23 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 1:46:56pm
24 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:47:37pm

re: #18 Targetpractice

And another item I didn’t know about until just the other day was that, in the early days of the Confederacy, Virginia’s delegates considering the matter of secession were actually 2:1 against it. Then VP Stephens came and gave his “Cornerstone” speech, making owning slaves out as a “right,” but arguing that it was a matter of ensuring the superiority of the white race. Within days of that speech, Virginia had voted overwhelmingly to secede.

I had no idea about that. Sigh depresses me. Without Virginia, the CSA would have been crushed quicker.

25 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 1:47:38pm

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

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I think it’s just a silly troll.

26 unproven innocence  Jun 26, 2015 1:47:46pm

re: #19 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Looks like they are waving at someone. //

27 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 1:47:47pm

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

I think she’s 11.

28 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 1:47:54pm

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

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And let me guess, she also buys into the bull about how thousands of black men joined up and fought in the name of the Confederacy.

29 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:48:26pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

She’s a very special brand of stupid.

[Embedded content]

They wanted to get rid of slavery? Yes that’s why affirming its legality was in its Constituion.

30 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 1:48:45pm

re: #26 unproven innocence

Look like they are waving at someone. //

“I think they’re looking for their friend. They keep asking if anyone has seen Kyle.”

31 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 1:48:56pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

She’s a very special brand of stupid.

Can we just talk about the Confederate Flag real quick. First off, the flag is not in anyway racist. The KKK actually hate the flag so +

in no way shape or form is this flag “racist”the confederate states wanted to get ride of slavery and be free while the Federal Union didnt+

Lemme guess - she was homeschooled. EIther that, or she’s totally insane.

32 Jenner7  Jun 26, 2015 1:49:36pm
33 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 1:50:46pm

re: #29 HappyWarrior

They wanted to get rid of slavery? Yes that’s why affirming its legality was in its Constituion.

Their Constitution not only made slave-owning a right, but it barred any state in the Confederacy from passing laws to ban it, barred stars from preventing from passing through or staying with slaves in their company, and ensured that any new states that slave-owners would have all the same privileges and rights in any new state brought into the Confederacy.

34 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:50:51pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

OK, but besides that, and the declarations of secession……

///

35 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 1:51:18pm
36 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:52:14pm

re: #31 Dr Lizardo

in no way shape or form is this flag “racist”the confederate states wanted to get ride of slavery and be free while the Federal Union didnt

Yeah some wingnut was conservasplaining this to all of us the other day, about how the North wanted to keep slavery and the South didn’t and that’s why war.

Very informative stuff.

////

37 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:52:39pm

re: #33 Targetpractice

Their Constitution not only made slave-owning a right, but it barred any state in the Confederacy from passing laws to ban it, barred stars from preventing from passing through or staying with slaves in their company, and ensured that any new states that slave-owners would have all the same privileges and rights in any new state brought into the Confederacy.

Exactly. The CSA was founded for one purpose only and that was to protect slavery. Hell they even admitted it until it became impossible to defend slavery so we started getting the Lost Cause revisionist bullshit.

38 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:53:31pm

re: #15 darthstar

Winning

39 Timothy Watson  Jun 26, 2015 1:53:50pm

re: #27 #FergusonFireside

I think she’s 11.

“Is our children learning?”

No.

40 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:54:33pm

re: #36 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Yeah some wingnut was conservasplaining this to all of us the other day, about how the North wanted to keep slavery and the South didn’t and that’s why war.

Very informative stuff.

////

It’s like they live in a different universe. You want to argue that Abraham Lincoln was not racially progressive even by 1860’s standards, fine, we can have that discussion but to deny that the CSA was invested in slavery being legal is an act of denying basic historical reality.

41 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:54:58pm

OT, oh well, basically hanging around the office waiting for the boss to read my stuff and say whether he wants anything else.

About ready to go home. What a week.

42 lawhawk  Jun 26, 2015 1:55:14pm

re: #33 Targetpractice

To that effect:

A slave in one State, escaping to another, shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom said slave may belong by the executive authority of the State in which such slave shall be found, and in case of any abduction or forcible rescue, full compensation, including the value of the slave and all costs and expenses, shall be made to the party, by the State in which such abduction or rescue shall take place. - Art IV, Sec. 2, cl. 3

43 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jun 26, 2015 1:56:29pm

re: #42 lawhawk

To that effect:

This=Getting Rid of Slavery.

What about this do you still not understand?!?!?!?

//

44 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 1:56:33pm

re: #37 HappyWarrior

Exactly. The CSA was founded for one purpose only and that was to protect slavery. Hell they even admitted it until it became impossible to defend slavery so we started getting the Lost Cause revisionist bullshit.

The “Lost Cause” business makes sense in light of items like the “Twenty Negro Rule,” which I thank Kragar for enlightening me of. If you think about it, after the first year, most of those serving the Confederacy were conscripts. Some may have joined up in the belief they were protecting their homes or their way of life, but I’d bet dollars to donuts most joined up because of the pay. So when you get stuck fighting a war you didn’t want, for something you didn’t have any real say in, and then when the war ends you’re blamed for the war, of course you’re going to deny any part in it and try to rewrite history to where you were blameless.

For a more modern example, look at all the “Good Germans” who popped up after Germany surrendered and the full horrors of the Holocaust became known. Or all those who tell us today that they had no part in Saddam’s regime, never agreed with what he was doing, and were just following orders.

45 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:56:53pm

The other thing is the CSA was none too fond of secession within the CSA. Confederacy apologists love to talk about how the CSA was justified in separating from the Union blah blah but ignore that Davis wasn’t too kind to secession when it happened in pro-Union/anti-slavery parts of the CSA. Every single state in the Union during that time sent volunteers to protect it. Even South Carolina and Mississippi which were overwhelmingly pro-secession did.

46 lawhawk  Jun 26, 2015 1:57:55pm

Speaking of bitter tears:

Nearly 3,000 Americans died on 9/11. On 6/26, not only did no one die, but people in loving relationships will now be able to get married and obtain the benefits provided to others who are already in a married relationship allowed to hetero couples.

It’s of a kind with those who demean the memories of those killed in the Holocaust by making all manner of inane comparison.

This fucker demeans the memories of the nearly 3,000 killed on 9/11, or the thousands who later went to war in the US Armed Forces in Afghanistan to go after those responsible.

This is the clearest example of Fischer’s debased and demented worldview to date.

47 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 1:59:11pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

The “Lost Cause” business makes sense in light of items like the “Twenty Negro Rule,” which I think Kragar for enlightening me of. If you think about it, after the first year, most of those serving the Confederacy were conscripts. Some may have joined up in the belief they were protecting their homes or their way of life, but I’d bet dollars to donuts most joined up because of the pay. So when you get stuck fighting a war you didn’t want, for something you didn’t have any real say in, and then when the war ends you’re blamed for the war, of course you’re going to deny any part in it and try to rewrite history to where you were blameless.

For a more modern example, look at all the “Good Germans” who popped up after Germany surrendered and the full horrors of the Holocaust became known. Or all those who tell us today that they had no part in Saddam’s regime, never agreed with what he was doing, and were just following orders.

It’s also the changing of sensibilities. By the 1880’s, I imagine it was impossible to defend slavery’s legitimacy. I like what you and Kragar are saying though and I think we have the same thought. I think in a bizarre way, the actual Confederates would hate these people because they’re in denial about what the CSA actually was. A real secessionist and CSA soldier/elected official etc would tell you “Well yeah of course we seceded because of slavery and of course we believe blacks(they would not use that word and I will not use the word they would here) are inferior.”

48 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:01:09pm

re: #46 lawhawk

Speaking of bitter tears:

[Embedded content]

Nearly 3,000 Americans died on 9/11. On 6/26, not only did no one die, but people in loving relationships will now be able to get married and obtain the benefits provided to others who are already in a married relationship allowed to hetero couples.

It’s of a kind with those who demean the memories of those killed in the Holocaust by making all manner of inane comparison.

This fucker demeans the memories of the nearly 3,000 killed on 9/11, or the thousands who later went to war in the US Armed Forces in Afghanistan to go after those responsible.

This is the clearest example of Fischer’s debased and demented worldview to date.

He again shows why he’s able to top Robertson and Falwell at times in sheer disgusting worldview. Yes, Bryan allowing SSM is so much like 9/11. Really fuck you Bryan. No one was murdered because of this decision. No one. Instead people now enjoy equality under the law where they hadn’t enjoyed it before. If you think that’s as bad as 9/11, I think you really need to shut up next time you accuse the left of not loving this country. I have my disagreements with our policies but I would never ever equate a decision especially one like this by the Supreme Court to 9/11.

49 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:03:15pm

I won’t stop you from believing your ancestor thought his cause was noble but you want that belief on a state house? Fuck off. And furthermore if you want to lie about the history of that cause? Again fuck off.

50 Khal Wimpo  Jun 26, 2015 2:07:50pm

Doing some research today about the proliferation of nihilistic propaganda efforts, as aided by modern technology. Ran across this description of colonial Spain, and realized that it pretty aptly describes Fox News and the know-nothing religious right:

Spain has always been exceedingly religious and exceedingly cruel… they were fearful that if they should grant the least concession to the Moor, God would destroy them. Their idea was that the only way to secure divine aid was to have absolute faith, and this faith was proved by their hatred of all ideas inconsistent with their own… Spain has been and is the victim of superstition… Nothing was left but Spaniards; that is to say, indolence, pride, cruelty and infinite superstition. So Spain destroyed all freedom of thought through the Inquisition, and for many years the sky was livid with the flames of the Auto de fe; Spain was busy carrying fagots to the feet of philosophy, busy in burning people for thinking, for investigating, for expressing honest opinions. The result was that a great darkness settled over Spain, pierced by no star and shone upon by no rising sun.

Yeah, that sounds like something that will happen if the Breitbartians ever get their way…

51 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:08:29pm

Most of the posts I’ve seen on facebook have been great so far. There’s one major derpage though. Some guy crying about how people are saying “Love has won out” and they should be saying “equality has won out.” I have no fucking desire to get into it with him, lie with the fleas and all that jazz but I feel like pointing out to him that there are many things that come with marriage equality that social equality can’t bring you. Marriage equality allows you to be by your spouse’s side as he or she is sick in the hospital. It allows you to be able to adopt children in many states. So yes love has won out and it shows how unbelievably sheltered people like this are that just shrug it off. Scott Walker’s always been one of my least favorite Republicans running and I’ll always be pro-union all the way but he showed to me how big of an asshole he really is when he supported prohibiting same sex partners from being able to visit each other. Jeb Bush like wise opposed gays being able to adopt as governor of Florida. your parry and ideology calls itself “pro-family.” Fucking act like ti.

52 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 2:10:05pm

In June 1863, when Brig. Gen. Albert Jenkins’ cavalry, in the vanguard of the Confederate army, galloped into Pennsylvania, its aim wasn’t only to spy and steal supplies.

The soldiers were also determined, as historian Margaret Creighton notes, to round up African-Americans, whom the Confederates regarded as “contraband” that should be returned to “rightful” owners.

The “slave hunt,” as contemporaries and later historians called this phase of the Confederate invasion, would last as long as Gen. Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia remained in Pennsylvania. It ended only when the defeated Southern troops retreated back to Virginia after the Battle of Gettysburg.

53 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:11:54pm

re: #52 Kragar

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That is exactly why I don’t buy the “Gallant Lee” and “Lee hated slavery.” bullshit. Okay so maybe Lee wasn’t Nathan Bedford Forrest but he wasn’t the benevolent, reluctant slave owner that he’s made out to be. There were other men like him born into the slave owning culture who emancipated their slaves and became champions of abolition.

54 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jun 26, 2015 2:12:01pm

Although it is not incorrect to say that the Civil War was not entirely about slavery, Confederate revisionists have turned it on its head to claim that it was entirely not about slavery.

55 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 2:14:10pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

That is exactly why I don’t buy the “Gallant Lee” and “Lee hated slavery.” bullshit. Okay so maybe Lee wasn’t Nathan Bedford Forrest but he wasn’t the benevolent, reluctant slave owner that he’s made out to be. There were other men like him born into the slave owning culture who emancipated their slaves and became champions of abolition.

Lee was a complex figure in history, I don’t think there’s any other way to say it. He wasn’t a saint, but he was far above monsters like Forrest.

56 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 2:14:59pm
57 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 2:16:02pm
58 Varek Raith  Jun 26, 2015 2:16:05pm

re: #56 #FergusonFireside

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Sigh.

59 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:16:07pm

re: #55 Targetpractice

Lee was a complex figure in history, I don’t think there’s any other way to say it. He wasn’t a saint, but he was far above monsters like Forrest.

Oh I agree. I just don’t like him being painted out as this reluctant slave owner who hated slavery. He was no monster but not the saint the LC wants to paint him as.

60 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 26, 2015 2:17:39pm

Time to stop the lies, “Lost Causers” and other Confederate apologists.

Your 150 year old empire of falsehood has collapsed around your ears. If it was not about slavery, why did the Confederate leaders say it was? If the Confederate flag is not a symbol of white supremacy why did the man who designed it say it was? If it was about a tariff, why did 7 southern states secede before their senators could defeat it in the final vote, as they could have? Confederate apologists like to say their opponents need a history lesson. They are either ignorant or lying, or perhaps both, because the easily verified and multiply documented facts of history prove them comprehensively, plainly, and shamefully wrong.

61 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:17:42pm

re: #57 Kragar

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Yeah so what Sean? By the way those who fought that Nazi regime and fought for independence. Psst there were plenty of gay men and women who fought that fight too and would want the same rights as you do. Fucking wingnuts need to stop acting like gay people just came out of nowhere.

62 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 2:18:28pm

Thomas would have you believe that because he himself could survive the indignities forced upon him by Jim Crow—a system of legal discrimination that eventually came to be made illegal, after a variety of Supreme Court decisions very much like today’s ruling—and that somehow, others should be able to endure something similar without the benefit of the very legal recourse that he can deliver from his perch.

63 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 2:19:20pm

re: #31 Dr Lizardo

[Embedded content]

Lemme guess - she was homeschooled. EIther that, or she’s totally insane.

Or stupid. Stupid is definitely a possibility.

64 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 26, 2015 2:20:15pm

re: #57 Kragar

One American generation fought a revolution. Another fought to end slavery. Another destroyed the Nazi regime. Yours has rainbow avatars.

Sean Davis doesn’t understand the power of the rainbow. He will, when this old vet puts his rainbow-colored boot all the way up Sean’s ass.

65 TedStriker  Jun 26, 2015 2:20:48pm

re: #62 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

What a fucking shitstain Thomas is.

66 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:21:07pm

re: #62 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Thomas has benefited as a man in spite of Jim Crow. He has benefited from much of the same progressive legislation and laws that he’d be happy to throw out. It’s truly sad that the man who is a living example of why Jim Crow laws were wrong would be happy to return them.

67 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:21:35pm

re: #65 TedStriker

What a fucking shitstain Thomas is.

the worst judge of the four conservatives on the court and that really is saying something.

68 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 26, 2015 2:22:11pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

69 Jenner7  Jun 26, 2015 2:22:20pm
70 Lidane  Jun 26, 2015 2:23:50pm
71 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 2:24:09pm
72 piratedan  Jun 26, 2015 2:24:27pm

re: #64 Higgs Boson’s Mate

So, in Seth’s mind all battles worth fighting involve somebody dying? If anything, America got stronger today, time to put away things that divide us, stupidly so and just accept people as people. Doesn’t mean you can’t disagree (and boy, do we disagree) but just to treat with everyone else you meet as if they are simply a another human being. Don’t see how us making that stride is somehow not a struggle worth celebrating.

73 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 2:24:36pm

re: #57 Kragar

[Embedded content]

One American generation fought a revolution. Another fought to end slavery. Another destroyed the Nazi regime. Yours has rainbow avatars.

How about the generation that fought to end the forms of slavery that ran rampant in the Industrial Revolution, giving us things like the weekend, 40-hour work week, or safety regulations? How’s about the generation that protested and marched to ensure the right of women to vote? Or the one that fought, bled, and even died to finally make sure that the promises of this nation in the wake of that war to end slavery were finally fulfilled?

Just because you don’t wear a uniform doesn’t mean you can’t fight to make the world a better place.

74 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 2:28:23pm

Bryan Fischer’s penis has been attacked by BEARS.

75 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 2:31:07pm

re: #70 Lidane

Calvin @aurosan

remember when republicans in texas cut a cake to celebrate banning marriage equality?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mmmm, pink irony icing!

76 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 26, 2015 2:32:58pm

Just popped up in my FB feed…..

77 TedStriker  Jun 26, 2015 2:33:08pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

Bryan Fischer’s penis has been attacked by BEARS.

[Embedded content]

I LOL’ed at this:

78 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 2:33:16pm
79 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 2:33:17pm

Nicely done article, Kragar!

80 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 2:33:25pm

You really expect to have a serious conversation with something calling itself sexcrazedmgc?

Just. Don’t.

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 2:34:04pm

re: #75 De Kolta Chair

Mmmm, pink irony icing!

82 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 2:34:59pm

re: #76 RealityBasedSteve

Just popped up in my FB feed…..

[Embedded content]

Wait, is that Colbert’s eagle?!

//

83 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 2:35:06pm
84 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 2:35:28pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

Bryan Fischer’s penis has been attacked by BEARS.

[Embedded content]

Bryan Fischer wishes his penis was being attacked by BEARS. And I don’t mean the kind of bears you see up at Yellowstone.

85 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 2:36:05pm

Josh still desperately trying to get on the teevee.

I think Josh’s entire schtick has, in part, been calculated to position himself as the go to gay conservative voice, to grift off of that and to be the Right’s authoritative Aunt Tom. He want’s to get in on the grifting action and trade on his identity, only it’s all falling down around him. His big time to shine is passing right in front of him and nobody is giving him the acknowledgement he thinks he so richly deserves. It’s super sad.

86 Charles Johnson  Jun 26, 2015 2:36:13pm

re: #7 Kragar

Thanks for the promotion.

Great post! I added the Confederate currency note image, so there’d be an image to display on the front page.

87 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 2:37:08pm

LOL try having a serious discussion about Civil War history with this asshole:
Hey he actually changed his avi, maybe afraid he would get kicked off Twitter

88 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:37:30pm

re: #83 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Ok nothing is stopping men and women from having children dipshits.

89 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 2:37:43pm
90 teleskiguy  Jun 26, 2015 2:37:59pm
91 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:38:37pm

re: #87 The Vicious Babushka

LOL try having a serious discussion about Civil War history with this asshole:
Hey he actually changed his avi, maybe afraid he would get kicked off Twitter

[Embedded content]

Their choice to do so. It’s also a choice to boycott this store too for selling that rag.

92 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 2:39:16pm

re: #80 The Vicious Babushka

You really expect to have a serious conversation with something calling itself sexcrazedmgc?

Just. Don’t.

I’m feeling judged here lol.

You’re not the boss of me!

93 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 2:40:05pm

re: #83 Ace-o-aces

;-[)

94 Shiplord Kirel  Jun 26, 2015 2:43:14pm

The “Lost Cause” mythology is comprehensively embedded in rightwing culture in this country, and underpins many RW ideas, including some that are not completely obvious at first glance. Christian fundamentalism, hostility to organized labor and the minimum wage, and the fetish for the free markets are all intimately connected with the mythology of the old south and of Confederate righteousness. There is an obvious congruety of adherence in all of these notions Ayn Rand was a Russian immigrant but the bulk of her present day followers are neo-Confederates or their nothern Copperhead allies.
I believe, further, that the great and evil myth has negative consequences at the most basic cultural level.
The success of the Lost Cause in concealing the truth, for example, would encourage a habit of lying and a general ethical laxity among the southern elite, the more so because of the impossible standards supposedly required by their superstitious snake oil brand of Christianity.

95 DobermanBoston  Jun 26, 2015 2:44:41pm
96 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 26, 2015 2:45:28pm

re: #85 goddamnedfrank

Josh still desperately trying to get on the teevee.

[Embedded content]

I think Josh’s entire schtick has, in part, been calculated to position himself as the go to gay conservative voice, to grift off of that and to be the Right’s authoritative Aunt Tom. He want’s to get in on the grifting action and trade on his identity, only it’s all falling down around him. His big time to shine is passing right in front of him and nobody is giving him the acknowledgement he thinks he so richly deserves. It’s super sad.

I’ll know that he’s actually on the ropes when he pitches himself as the gay conservative alien encounters expert.

97 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 2:47:59pm
98 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:49:38pm

It really is amazing how far the country has come on this issue. A friend today was recalling the 2004 election and I remember too how disillusioned I was. I was sick to my stomach and yes cynical about our fellow Americans giving Bush another go at it especially after seeing how big the gay marriage referendums brought out his base. But I learned something that day and that was about pragmatism. You may not win every battle but you must fight hard in every battle. Today, we have a successful health care reform system and SSM in every state. Did it happen overnight? Nope but progress my friends is a journey not an event.

99 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 2:49:55pm
100 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:50:27pm

re: #97 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

They do realize by throwing these temper tantrums, they’re just asking for even more government interfere. If the Pike County judge is so disturbed by this decision, he needs to find a new fucking job.

101 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:50:43pm

re: #99 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

That’s because he’s stuck in the closet with Bryan Fischer.

102 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 2:53:17pm
103 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:54:01pm

re: #102 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Really someone loving the same gender makes you want to puke Phil? You should save your puke for when you actually need it.

104 jaunte  Jun 26, 2015 2:54:59pm
105 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:55:48pm

re: #104 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Why won’t Obama sign the week of June 26th. He’s being totally unreasonable by refusing to do this.//

106 BeachDem  Jun 26, 2015 2:56:40pm

re: #83 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Children have a right to a mom and a dad committed in a lifelong, marital relationship.

So they’re saying they want to outlaw divorce, right?

107 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:57:58pm

If the idea of two men or two women marrying and having the same rights as a man and woman couple bothers you more than the following:
poverty
racism
hunger
disease
war
Fish taco scarcity
Justin Bieber
Then get the hell over yourself.

108 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 2:59:18pm

re: #106 BeachDem

Children have a right to a mom and a dad committed in a lifelong, marital relationship.

So they’re saying they want to outlaw divorce, right?

It seems to me it’s a way of bitching about SSM being legal meaning that gay couples will be able to adopt or do IVF now. But that’s not new due to this decision. And furthermore, it’s not going to stop men and women from having children. I feel as attracted to women today with SSM being legalized as I did the day I saw Dubya Bush pushing the FMA.

109 darthstar  Jun 26, 2015 2:59:34pm
110 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 2:59:50pm
111 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:00:45pm

re: #110 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

He’s just saying what his base wants to hear.//

112 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 3:02:11pm

Ben Shapiro should read this==>

113 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 3:03:10pm
114 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 3:03:31pm

Happy Hour

Liam Walsh
115 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 3:04:01pm
116 eeisler  Jun 26, 2015 3:05:10pm

Great post, kragar.

One thing that occurs to me reading all this Confederacy stuff - southern racist whites have tied their own value to the value of blacks. I think that’s why they can’t let it go. “I as a white am only worth something in relation to blacks being worth less.” They can’t define themselves without black people in the equation. That’s how they get their status. Ironically, they need African-Americans.

Someone on an earlier thread mentioned this being an offshoot of the English class system. The English got over it but then their status was never tied to other races in the same way as it was tied to each other. It’s going to be harder for southern whites.

117 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 3:05:37pm

re: #108 HappyWarrior

It seems to me it’s a way of bitching about SSM being legal meaning that gay couples will be able to adopt or do IVF now. But that’s not new due to this decision. And furthermore, it’s not going to stop men and women from having children. I feel as attracted to women today with SSM being legalized as I did the day I saw Dubya Bush pushing the FMA.

Right, I’m as heterosexual today as I was yesterday…though the fella across the street is looking ni…wait, did I say that out loud?

////

118 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:06:49pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

Right, I’m as heterosexual today as I was yesterday…though the fella across the street is looking ni…wait, did I say that out loud?

////

These guys are so insecure in their sexuality. I think that really is why they can’t stand gay people. Gay people know who they are. Guys like Fischer, LABarbara, etc are all in denial about some weird sexual kink.

119 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 26, 2015 3:07:42pm

I’ve been busy working in the shop, no radio or news, so this all makes sense now. I stepped outside for a breath of air and saw hordes of zombies destroying churches, while dragons circled overhead, breathing fire on bakers and florists who hadn’t capitulated. It also nicely explains the FEMA trucks driving by with people screaming from the back of them.

Oh wait… I didn’t see any of that. I did see our local male cardinal, who let me know that he was the most worthy of cardinals, and showed off his top-crest to boot.

In other words, life goes on just like the day before. Except for some of my friends, who may now tie the knot here in Tennessee at some (soon) future date.

RBS

120 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:08:03pm

re: #116 eeisler

Great post, kragar.

One thing that occurs to me reading all this Confederacy stuff - southern racist whites have tied their own value to the value of blacks. I think that’s why they can’t let it go. “I as a white am only worth something in relation to blacks being worth less.” They can’t define themselves without black people in the equation. That’s how they get their status. Ironically, they need African-Americans.

Someone on an earlier thread mentioned this being an offshoot of the English class system. The English got over it but then their status was never tied to other races in the same way as it was tied to each other. It’s going to be harder for southern whites.

Good observation Re: The English class system given that the South more than the North and Midatlantic was the most influenced by English customs.

121 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 3:09:06pm
122 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:09:08pm

The most happy people about today’s ruling? Oh easy answer. Wedding planners.

123 Stephen T.  Jun 26, 2015 3:09:33pm

re: #106 BeachDem

Yes, some of them are saying they’re against divorce. At least when it comes to no-fault divorce.

Some of them claim that there is no slippery slope fallacy when it comes to “the downfall of marriage.” First came no-fault divorce, then came interracial marriage, now we have gay marriage.

124 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:09:46pm

re: #121 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah I don’t get it but I think Louie Gohmert is that stupid.

125 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 3:10:27pm

re: #121 Kragar

[Embedded content]

This is a mindset that no doubt explains 9/11 as related to some weakening of America’s moral fabric, rather than there just being no divine intervention.

126 EPR-radar  Jun 26, 2015 3:11:35pm

re: #96 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I’ll know that he’s actually on the ropes when he pitches himself as the gay conservative alien encounters expert.

That would be a hoot. “Tell us more about the rectal probes, Mr. Quisling”.

127 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 3:11:42pm
128 jaunte  Jun 26, 2015 3:11:46pm

re: #121 Kragar

“…But if Moses, Jesus, and contributors to the Bible were correct, God’s hand of protection will be withdrawn as future actions from external and internal forces will soon make clear. I will do all I can to prevent such harm, but I am gravely fearful that the stage has now been set.”

So Louie is going to go against God’s will?

129 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:12:56pm

I want to ask Louie and those that believe God will “punish” us over gay marriage why he stayed silent during Civil War, racism, genocide, etc.

130 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 3:12:56pm

re: #121 Kragar

A great zinger from the comments:

Time to dust off my standard response to any new instance of Gohmertian absurdity, I see, so here it is:

Once again, as is his habit, Louie Gohmert rose up on his hind legs today and amused himself greatly by making noises with his mouth. Representative Gohmert has achieved great proficiency in mimicking human speech, currently demonstrating a vocabulary of nearly 200 “scare words” which he occasionally connects into longer phrases that the lay person can easily mistake for cogent thoughts.

LOLOLOL

131 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:13:32pm

re: #127 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

I don’t suppose I’d qualify for this. Flatfoot isn’t fleet foot.

132 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 3:13:51pm
133 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:14:29pm

Really if you think this nation’s downfall is same sex marriage, get a lobotomy because the brain you have clearly isn’t helping much.

134 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:14:46pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

Right, I’m as heterosexual today as I was yesterday…though the fella across the street is looking ni…wait, did I say that out loud?

////

It’s probably his fabulous gay yard that actually caught your fancy.

135 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:14:49pm

re: #132 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Poor Bryan Fischer, some day his prince will come.

136 lawhawk  Jun 26, 2015 3:15:22pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

I want to ask Louie and those that believe God will “punish” us over gay marriage why he stayed silent during Civil War, racism, genocide, etc.

That’s because the god in Louie’s delusions supported genocide, racism, segregation, and slavery?

137 lawhawk  Jun 26, 2015 3:15:34pm

re: #135 HappyWarrior

Poor Bryan Fischer, some day his prince will come.

That’ll be one bear of a day.

138 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:15:47pm

re: #136 lawhawk

That’s because the god in Louie’s delusions supported genocide, racism, segregation, and slavery?

Good point but I want the fucker to come out and say that.

139 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:16:03pm

re: #137 lawhawk

That’ll be one bear of a day.

A beary good day.

140 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 3:17:27pm

re: #132 Kragar

And I forgot to add (mea culpa) great article. I really enjoyed it.

141 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 3:17:47pm
142 EPR-radar  Jun 26, 2015 3:18:36pm

re: #85 goddamnedfrank

Josh still desperately trying to get on the teevee.

[Embedded content]

I think Josh’s entire schtick has, in part, been calculated to position himself as the go to gay conservative voice, to grift off of that and to be the Right’s authoritative Aunt Tom. He want’s to get in on the grifting action and trade on his identity, only it’s all falling down around him. His big time to shine is passing right in front of him and nobody is giving him the acknowledgement he thinks he so richly deserves. It’s super sad.

To be a gay movement conservative in the US one must be clinically insane, obscenely wealthy, or grifting. Option #3 looks most likely in this case.

143 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:19:18pm

re: #141 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

He’s had two kids since then I believe. Seem to be doing alright despite having a raging shithead for a father.

144 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:20:57pm

re: #142 EPR-radar

To be a gay movement conservative in the US one must be clinically insane, obscenely wealthy, or grifting. Option #3 looks most likely in this case.

I mean it seems to me to be a gay or racial minority with conservative views, we’re all individuals with differing perspectives but yes to be a movement conservative. I saw a wingnut high school friend post some screed by an African-American conservative about how the CSA flag never called him the n-word and liberals did. And I won’t lie, some liberals can be intolerant to conservative African Americans but at the same time, that article denied the CSA’ flag’s racism and that in fact conservatives are plenty racially hostile.

145 thedopefishlives  Jun 26, 2015 3:21:56pm

Evening Lizardim from the beautifully clear, warm, positively glowing wild north country. It’s been a real week in politics, and my Facebook feed has certainly been reflecting that fact. How go things among the lizardfolk on this most excellent Friday?

146 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:22:04pm

I don’t ever use the term “Uncle Tom” or anything like that but yeah damn right I wonder about gay movement conservatives especially when the Republican party is filled with people who don’t merely disagree with SSM, they think being gay itself is demonic.

147 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 3:22:54pm

re: #141 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

But what you’re forgetting is that Ben’s tortured by his passionate yearning for his neighbor Hank. He’s no doubt terrified that any day now, the temptation will be too strong to resist.

148 Dr Lizardo  Jun 26, 2015 3:27:04pm

And it’s late here. Well, a great day overall. Goodnight, Lizards.

149 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:29:57pm
150 urbanmeemaw  Jun 26, 2015 3:32:02pm

re: #149 Backwoods_Sleuth

One of the plaintiffs was from Cincinnati. I heard on local news tonight that President Obama called him to congratulate him.

151 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 3:33:32pm

[…]

New Mexico had an odd path the Supreme Court hearing; a county clerk in Doña Ana County Clerk decided to start issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Ellins, an attorney, decided that state law did not prohibit him from doing so.

[…]

152 Dave In Austin  Jun 26, 2015 3:34:13pm
153 Timothy Watson  Jun 26, 2015 3:34:41pm

re: #116 eeisler

Great post, kragar.

One thing that occurs to me reading all this Confederacy stuff - southern racist whites have tied their own value to the value of blacks. I think that’s why they can’t let it go. “I as a white am only worth something in relation to blacks being worth less.” They can’t define themselves without black people in the equation. That’s how they get their status. Ironically, they need African-Americans.

Someone on an earlier thread mentioned this being an offshoot of the English class system. The English got over it but then their status was never tied to other races in the same way as it was tied to each other. It’s going to be harder for southern whites.

Historians have a term for it: Herrenvolk Democracy
en.m.wikipedia.org

154 Whack-A-Mole  Jun 26, 2015 3:34:45pm

Fantastic page Kragar! Thank you for taking the time to do this!

155 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:35:14pm

re: #150 urbanmeemaw

One of the plaintiffs was from Cincinnati. I heard on local news tonight that President Obama called him to congratulate him.

Yes, Jim Obergefell. He and his spouse were together more than 20 years.

156 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 3:37:05pm

Something I came across while researching this:

Confederates on the Rhine

“On a warm spring morning about 50 miles north of Berlin, Union troops and their Confederate rivals prepare for battle.” That’s the attention-grabbing lede of a PRI story on the bizarre phenomenon of Germans reenacting the American Civil War. The reporter explains that many participants feel “a personal connection to the war,” and that everyone with whom she spoke took care to note that 200,000 Germans had taken part in the fight:

After World War II, any talk of military glory became socially taboo here…So for those at the reenactment, it is appealing that the U.S. Civil War took place in another country, in another time. It is safer, even romantic.

But the two parties to the fraternal conflict exert unequal appeal. When Germans gather at the reenactments, “more people want to be on the Confederate side.” That produces a surreal spectacle. Germans marching about in butternut and gray, pretending to dwell in Dixie. With Teutonic precision, they have replicated every detail, down to the brass buttons and the brightly colored piping on their trousers.

Among military reenactors, the chance to fight on the losing side or to struggle against overwhelming odds exercises a particularly powerful appeal. That, after all, is an essential component of the romance of Gone with the Wind; after exalting it, the Nazis found themselves forced to ban it in the nations they occupied, where audiences cast themselves - and not the Germans - in the role of the wronged. If even the Resistance in Europe was inspired to identify with the South, why read anything sinister into the existence of German Confederates?

Wolfgang Hochbruck, a Professor of American Studies at the University of Freiburg and a Union reenactor, is less charitable. “I think some of the Confederate reenactors in Germany are acting out Nazi fantasies of racial superiority,” he told author Tony Horwitz. “They are obsessed with your war because they cannot celebrate their own vanquished racists.” It’s an unsettling thought.

157 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 3:38:14pm
158 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:38:39pm
159 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:39:37pm

In other news (and it’s true):

160 BeachDem  Jun 26, 2015 3:40:42pm

And
Hillary Clinton’s Gay Marriage Video Will Give Your Cold Shriveled Heart ALL The Feels
wonkette.com

161 Jenner7  Jun 26, 2015 3:41:08pm

Germany beats France in penalty kicks….

Women’s World Cup

162 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 3:41:23pm

They being jealous?

163 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 3:41:32pm

CHOCOLATE POUND CAKE
Because Rainbow Cake is full of artificial food coloring!

164 Franklin  Jun 26, 2015 3:41:53pm

Apologies if already posted

165 Jenner7  Jun 26, 2015 3:42:47pm

re: #163 The Vicious Babushka

::drool::

166 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 3:43:37pm

re: #163 The Vicious Babushka

CHOCOLATE POUND CAKE
Because Rainbow Cake is full of artificial food coloring!

[Embedded content]

I’d like 150 of them, please, to try some different toppings.

167 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:44:39pm

re: #159 Backwoods_Sleuth

In other news (and it’s true):

[Embedded content]

Couldn’t find a state that would let him run there?

168 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 3:44:42pm
169 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 3:44:53pm

I’m really tired of seeing great games decided after regulation play is over, by a goalie just launching themselves in some random direction and lucking out by having the ball bounce off a knee.

At least allow unlimited substitutions in overtime play, get some fresh players on the field and see if that doesn’t cut down on shootouts.

170 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:45:58pm

re: #156 Kragar

Something I came across while researching this:

Confederates on the Rhine

Agree with the professor, sad too given how many German immigrants including my own gg grandfather fought for the Union.

171 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:48:25pm

There’s nothing glamorous or rebellious about the flag of white supremacist aristocrats who fought to preserve slavery.

172 thedopefishlives  Jun 26, 2015 3:49:29pm

re: #171 HappyWarrior

There’s nothing glamorous or rebellious about the flag of white supremacist aristocrats who fought to preserve slavery.

As warriors, I respect their valor. Completely misguided and misplaced though it was.

173 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:52:39pm

re: #172 thedopefishlives

As warriors, I respect their valor. Completely misguided and misplaced though it was.

Right but the cause was rotten to the bone. That’s on Davis more than the average pfc of course.

174 Kid A  Jun 26, 2015 3:52:58pm
175 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 3:54:38pm

re: #174 Kid A

[Embedded content]

Really Bryan tell us more about how God ruined Canada. Ten years of SSM and not destroyed.

176 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 3:56:07pm
177 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 26, 2015 3:57:35pm

re: #106 BeachDem

Children have a right to a mom and a dad committed in a lifelong, marital relationship.

So they’re saying they want to outlaw divorce, right?

178 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 3:57:53pm

re: #163 The Vicious Babushka

CHOCOLATE POUND CAKE
Because Rainbow Cake is full of artificial food coloring!

[Embedded content]

You know what they say, once you go black you never oh gawd I want some of that right this minute NOW!!!!

179 De Kolta Chair  Jun 26, 2015 3:59:10pm

re: #174 Kid A

[Embedded content]

And the bear attacking and killing children! That one never gets old.

180 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 3:59:33pm

re: #149 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I read the Pete Souza account. Apparently the clock stopped at 10:10. Kind of weird.

And then the rainbow.

Oh hai God.

181 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 4:01:14pm

re: #171 HappyWarrior

There’s nothing glamorous or rebellious about the flag of white supremacist aristocrats who fought to preserve slavery.

Another consideration was the number of desertions on both sides, but especially so for the CSA:

As you might expect, statistics for the Confederate soldier are very sketchy. The Confederate War Department reported that by June, 1863, there were 136,000 men absent without leave. Davis Stated in September of 1864, that two thirds of the Confederate army was absent without leave. Early in 1865, Gen. John S. Preston, the superintendent of the Confederate Bureau of Conscription, said, “so common is the crime, it has in popular estimation lost the stigma which justly pertains to it, and deserters everywhere are shielded by their families and by the sympathies of many communities.”

Kenneth Radley’s book, “Rebel Watchdog, The Confederate States Army Provost Guard,” provides some interesting insights. “Well meaning but misguided leniency to deserters further exacerbated the problem and proved no more effective than the many appeals to deserters to rejoin the colors.”

Radley relates that for April, 1863, 360,000 Confederates were present for duty out of an estimated 498,000. Radley writes, “…these figures are the apogee of Confederate military strength. After that, the numbers of men present fell rapidly and the rate of desertion rose steeply.” Also mentioned, is the increasing problem of bands of these deserters resisting any effort to return them to the army. “By Christmas of 1863, the problem was no longer single deserters but squads, and even whole companies of men who broke away from the army.”

By April, 1865, of an enrollment of 359,000 men, only 120,000 were actually present for duty with the Confederate army.

182 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:01:17pm

heh

183 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 4:01:23pm

re: #163 The Vicious Babushka

CHOCOLATE POUND CAKE
Because Rainbow Cake is full of artificial food coloring!

[Embedded content]

YUM. That looks perfect.

184 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:03:17pm

re: #180 #FergusonFireside

I read the Pete Souza account. Apparently the clock stopped at 10:10. Kind of weird.

And then the rainbow.

Oh hai God.

Link to Souza’s post for those who haven’t seen it.

185 Ace-o-aces  Jun 26, 2015 4:03:28pm
186 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 4:03:55pm

Hidden among the bullshit is this tidbit:

Dallas County Sheriff Lupe (LOO’-pay) Valdez, the county’s first openly gay sheriff, stopped by the Dallas County Records Building on Friday morning to see the line of couples preparing to seek marriage licenses.

Valdez says she wanted to help celebrate the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision legalizing gay marriage. She says the ruling means gay couples “are recognized as equal in every possible way.”

Valdez says she has been with her girlfriend for two years and they both cried Friday when they heard the news. She said they have discussed marriage but do not have plans right now to wed.

Valdez, who was in uniform, shook hands with some of the couples waiting in line to get their marriage licenses, offering congratulations. Her partner was not with her.

187 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 4:04:06pm
188 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 4:04:55pm

I’m re-creating a salad I had last night: watermelon, arugula, thin red onion & crumbled goat cheese. I’m making a simple balsamic vinaigrette. It was soooo good. I hope mine compares.

189 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:05:46pm

re: #185 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

She’s an idiot. If anything sep of church and state is why churches won’t be forced to perform SSM. See Dana not having an official religion is good.

190 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 4:08:19pm
This is just insane.

Gov. Bobby Jindal’s administration and Attorney General Buddy Caldwell say gay marriage currently will not be offered or recognized in Louisiana despite a U.S. Supreme Court ruling saying same-sex couples should have access to marriage in all 50 states.

“Current state law is still in effect until the courts order us otherwise,” said Mike Reed, Jindal’s spokesman in the governor’s office.

The Jindal administration has said Louisiana’s state government won’t recognize gay marriage until a lower court rules on the issue. The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has taken up a gay marriage case, but was waiting on the Supreme Court ruling before moving forward with it. The Jindal administration is now delaying recognition of gay marriage in Louisiana until this appeals court decision is issued.

Jindal is setting Louisiana up for the mother of all contempt citations.

191 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:08:24pm

Walker called the ruling a “grave mistake” so much for GOP “moderates” accepting this with stride.

192 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:08:58pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

Jindal is setting Louisiana up for the mother of all contempt citations.

Jindal is a pathetic pandering hack.

193 Kragar  Jun 26, 2015 4:10:28pm
194 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:10:46pm

Homophobia is deeply ingrained into the GOP. It’s not going away despite what the establishment may claim to want.

195 Archangelus  Jun 26, 2015 4:11:19pm

re: #163 The Vicious Babushka

CHOCOLATE POUND CAKE
Because Rainbow Cake is full of artificial food coloring!

[Embedded content]

Obligatory “So tasty-looking i tried eating my screen” pic:

196 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:11:20pm

re: #193 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Math is hard, derp.

197 Lidane  Jun 26, 2015 4:11:23pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

Jindal is setting Louisiana up for the mother of all contempt citations.

It’s already been established that Jindal is a gigantic tool. This is not a surprise.

198 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:13:01pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

She’s an idiot. If anything sep of church and state is why churches won’t be forced to perform SSM. See Dana not having an official religion is good.

And it also means that the government can’t forbid religious organizations from performing SSM marriages if said organizations choose to do so.

199 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:13:52pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

And it also means that the government can’t forbid religious organizations from performing SSM marriages if said organizations choose to do so.

Exactly.

200 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 4:17:40pm

Ben Shapiro claims that a Supreme Court Justice is “Constitutionally illiterate”

201 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 4:18:27pm

He’s insane:

202 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:18:27pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

Jindal is setting Louisiana up for the mother of all contempt citations.

Somebody should let Bobby know that Kentucky’s governor has ordered that SSM marriage licenses are to be issued immediately…even though, right now, our state Constitution explicitly forbids it (and he, personally, is not in favor of SSM marriage).

203 Pawn of the Oppressor  Jun 26, 2015 4:21:09pm

re: #97 Backwoods_Sleuth

Hahahaha you know, I actually kind of like this reaction. “Gays too? I QUIT!” *desk flip* “Now NOBODY can get married!”

It’s a stupid reaction, but at least it’s fair!

204 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:21:32pm
205 piratedan  Jun 26, 2015 4:21:43pm

re: #197 Lidane

we need the SCOTUS just about as much as we need volcano monitoring…..

h/t to NotoriousJRT over at Balloon Juice

206 The Vicious Babushka  Jun 26, 2015 4:22:10pm

LOL

207 HappyWarrior  Jun 26, 2015 4:22:26pm

re: #200 The Vicious Babushka

Ben Shapiro claims that a Supreme Court Justice is “Constitutionally illiterate”

[Embedded content]

Ben showing again why he’s an idiot. The 14th amendment has been used to affirm a ton since then not relating to former slave citizenship.

208 Decatur Deb  Jun 26, 2015 4:23:56pm

Don’t want to be all theatrical, but there’s a large double rainbow at the moment, over the FL/GA/AL border at the Chattahoochee River.

wunderground.com

209 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 26, 2015 4:24:41pm

True story about something that happened today in the Backwoods:
A couple of friends are helping me out here on the farm while MrBWS is away so much. Today, they loaded up the pickup truck with bags and boxes full of broken glass and other trash to take to the landfill. MrBWS (who happens to be home today) said “be extra careful because we don’t have any insurance to cover you if anything happens.” One of the guys responded: “No problem, I have Obamacare!”

210 Targetpractice  Jun 26, 2015 4:25:07pm

re: #206 The Vicious Babushka

LOL

[Embedded content]

If they want to go to a country where gay marriage is illegal, I hear Daesh is always hiring. Though they’ll have to start praying to a different deity…

211 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 4:27:45pm
212 goddamnedfrank  Jun 26, 2015 4:28:22pm
213 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jun 26, 2015 4:28:44pm

re: #208 Decatur Deb

Don’t want to be all theatrical, but there’s a large double rainbow at the moment, over the FL/GA/AL border at the Chattahoochee River.

Whatever made you think that might be the least bit theatrical?

214 wrenchwench  Jun 26, 2015 4:28:48pm
215 Mike Lamb  Jun 26, 2015 4:29:35pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

Ben showing again why he’s an idiot. The 14th amendment has been used to affirm a ton since then not relating to former slave citizenship.

Wonder how Ben feels about corporations being legally recognized as people?

216 Decatur Deb  Jun 26, 2015 4:30:08pm

re: #213 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Whatever made you think that might be the least bit theatrical?

Suggests the weather god is a snarky gay set designer.

217 Teukka  Jun 26, 2015 4:30:44pm

re: #215 Mike Lamb

Wonder how Ben feels about corporations being legally recognized as people?

Also, how is it with the gender of corporations? Wouldn’t a corporate merger be a same-sex marriage?

*ducks*

218 #FergusonFireside  Jun 26, 2015 4:41:23pm

re: #216 Decatur Deb

Suggests the weather god is a snarky gay set designer.

ICYMI

219 CuriousLurker  Jun 26, 2015 4:48:36pm

Moving this upstairs because… new thread… *sigh*

220 Tigger2  Jun 26, 2015 5:17:43pm

re: #177 RealityBasedSteve

Embedded Image

The rednecks would revolt over that for sure.

221 CriticalDragon1177  Jun 26, 2015 8:00:06pm

Kragar,

These people obviously don’t care that much about “history.” What they really care about is their agenda.


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