Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz Are Openly Advocating for a Theocratic Government

The state of Republican politics
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Separation of church and state? Are you kidding? Get out of here with that antiquated nonsense! What was Thomas Jefferson thinking, anyway?

In 2015, the leading Republican candidates for president of the United States are going all out for the evangelical vote, and they’re openly advocating for a theocratic government.

MILNER, Ga. (AP) — Republican presidential candidates Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee went head-to-head for evangelical votes July 5, telling a megachurch congregation in Georgia that God favors the United States but warning that the nation is on a perilous spiritual path because of actions like the Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage in all 50 states.

Huckabee, who enjoyed evangelical support on his way to winning eight states in his 2008 White House bid, called the ruling “radical” and “illegal.”

“I want to serve notice that the Supreme Court is just the supreme of the court system that is one of the three equal branches of government,” Huckabee told hundreds of members of Rock Springs Church in a rural area outside metro Atlanta. “It is not the supreme branch, and it most certainly is not the supreme being.”

Cruz, the Texas senator, said a five-justice majority “ignored the text of the Constitution” and said the cascade of judicial and public support for same-sex marriage threatens religious liberty in America. He said he hopes the ruling “serves as a spark, to start a fire that becomes a raging inferno as the body of Christ stands up to defend the values that have built America.”

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123 comments
1 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 6:25:36pm

So I just saw this on Teh Twitters

2 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 6:26:00pm

Copied from downstairs:

Tulsa World editors ask themselves a question but the answer for which I think is not that difficult:

Tulsa World editorial: Impeachment threat against state Supreme Court is extreme, unjustifiable

Stung by the Oklahoma Supreme Court’s 7-2 decision last week that a Ten Commandments monument on the state Capitol violates the state constitution, some legislators are talking about impeaching members of the state’s highest court.

That’s an extreme and unjustifiable response to a controversial decision.

The most vocal of the legislators pursuing the high court judges is Rep. Kevin Calvey, who accused the justices of being judicial bullies. Let’s remember that Calvey is the same person who said during debate this year on a proposed pay raise for appellate court judges that if he were not a Christian, he would go to the state Supreme Court building, douse himself in gasoline and set himself on fire to “protest the evil in that building.”

It’s hard to imagine how such a man got into the Legislature, and harder to imagine that any other legislators will be taking his ideas seriously. If they did, they should be following him around with a fire extinguisher.

[…]

It’s not that difficult, really.

OK is full of religious extremists. Je$u$ is a big business there. Along come politicians who then feed these wingnuts their own religious memes back to them. The faithful feel they have found their man-of-God. Presto, whammo… and then the legislature is filled with these nutcases.

3 meteor  Jul 7, 2015 6:27:44pm

I’d move to the Moon to get away from these freaks. I can’t take it anymore.

4 Amory Blaine  Jul 7, 2015 6:30:20pm

re: #3 meteor

5 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 6:33:27pm

Also copied from downstairs:

It’s a widely held belief:

Is this the end of man’s age?

Less than two weeks ago a handful of Supreme Court Judges placed America on the wrong side of the Laws of God. By their own choosing, they decided that God was wrong about his concept of marriage - one man for one woman.

[…] The only two nations that God purposefully created was Israel and America. America, like Israel before her, has placed herself in the path of God’s justice.

God’s words are perfect truth and no man can change it. They can try but that decision has placed America under the condemnation of a just God. We have already received many warnings from God in the form of natural disasters. The man-made disaster that is looming just around the corner is our monetary system. […]

This religious delusion is why there is such an outcry about Obama leaving out “God” from his speeches (even if in fact he did not.)

A portion of our society is feeling increasingly threatened by reality. There is less and less room (in the public sphere of policy debates) for old fashioned notions.

This reactionary feeling is not isolated to the US Bible belt. Any place the modern world with its instant communications and abundant contact between multiple cultures will not be safe for old-fashioned belief systems.

6 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 6:38:33pm

One religious outlet asks explicitly:

Americans Question Whether or Not They Live in a ‘Christian Nation’ as History Challenges That Notion

[…]

According to [Spring Arbor University professor Mark ] Edwards, the majority of the founders hoped that the U.S. would remain “culturally Christian,” believing that religion was necessary for maintaining moral virtue. When it came to establishing a system of governance with the Constitution, however, they kept matters of religion and state distinct and separate.

“Despite their respect for religion and their belief in the divine origins of human rights, many of the Founding Fathers worried that religion would corrupt the state and, conversely, that the state would corrupt religion,” Edwards wrote. “James Madison challenged the idea that religion in politics would lead men to ‘cooperate for their common good’ and asserted instead that it would make them ‘vex and oppress each other.’”

[…]

7 Charles Johnson  Jul 7, 2015 6:43:06pm

The Republican Party should just rename themselves the “Christian Identity Party.” Combine the racism and religious fanaticism in one name, and have done with it.

8 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 7, 2015 6:44:45pm

So many people are unaware of the dangers to our secular and civil society posed by the “Christian Dominionist” or “Seven Mountains” movements. They believe with a fervor that the proper role for Christians is to control the aspects of society listed below.

The 7 areas are:
Arts and Entertainment
Business
Education
Family
Government
Media
Religion

Furthermore, they believe that America is a uniquely Christian nation, and it’s laws and customs must reflect that.

Here’s the best guide I’ve found….

Politicians that openly speak about receiving messages from God, basing campaigns on injecting religious beliefs into their policy making and believe that this nation was founded on “Christian” principles (Government). Social policies which are crafted based on religious ideology that define what constitutes a marriage and when life is created (Family). A government controlled by people who believe this nation is a “Christian” nation (Religion). The continued push to cut funding for public education to such low levels that private school is the only alternative for a decent education. Private schools which are often religiously based (Education). They constantly attack any and all media entities that don’t agree with them, while perpetuating the belief that only their media can be trusted (Media). They’re heavily backed by radical right-wing billionaires, many of whom advocate for open discrimination in the workplace based on religious beliefs (Business). Then they often blame gun violence on video games, claiming it’s entertainment (not guns) that needs more regulative control (Arts and Entertainment).

Read more at: forwardprogressives.com

The thing is, it’s like “Fight Club”. They will rarely if ever refer to themselves directly as Dominionists, but it’s matter of learning how to read the internal language. I’ve met a number of people that I was able to quickly determine held these beliefs by simply saying the “correct” things, and seeing what their response was.

RBS

9 Mattand  Jul 7, 2015 6:46:58pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

The Republican Party should just rename themselves the “Christian Identity Party.” Combine the racism and religious fanaticism in one name, and have done with it.

They’d still get nearly half of the vote. Americans look at this stuff and go “You’re not being fair. They’re all not like that! Democrats are just as bad!”

Where’s that random huge GIF when you need it?

10 Great White Snark  Jul 7, 2015 6:47:01pm

Not once, in the whole history of mankind has theocracy gone well.

11 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 6:48:55pm

On the same day that South Carolina passed a clear step to removing the Confederate flag from its Capitol grounds, the U.S. House of Representatives approved several measures barring the flag’s use on federal lands.

On Tuesday evening, the House approved an amendment to a spending bill that would prevent graves on federal lands from being decorated with the Confederate flag.

The amendment, from California Democratic Rep. Jared Huffman, was intended to prevent local groups from decorating the graves of Confederate soldiers with the flag on federal sites, such as those on Civil War battlegrounds. In certain Southern states that recognize Confederate Memorial Day, the National Park Service will allow local groups to place the flags on graves, although official policy is to remove them as soon as possible.

The House passed another Huffman amendment that would bar the National Park Service from selling Confederate flag merchandise, affirming an NPS request that its stores remove items featuring the flag as a symbol, after the June 17 shooting that killed nine people in a historically black church in South Carolina.

A third amendment from Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, a New York Democrat, would block funding for the purchase and display of the Confederate flag on National Park land unless it provides historical context, in line with NPS policy.

12 Charles Johnson  Jul 7, 2015 6:49:59pm

re: #8 RealityBasedSteve

You’re exactly right. I’ve been trying to call attention to the Dominionist menace for years now. It’s no joke. We now are facing a presidential election in which Dominionist ideas are held by most of the GOP candidates.

13 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 6:50:10pm

‘Satan is subtle,’ same-sex marriage foes warn as they prepare to fight court ruling

[…]

“I’m deeply disturbed by the decision the Supreme Court made. It’s painful as a Christian to see the leadership — our president — has not taken God into consideration,” said Daryl Fisher, 54, a firewood salesman who clutched a Bible in one hand as he spoke.

“It’s an abomination,” he said as the others nodded. “Christians will have to stand up and fight even harder for what’s right. The courts have not respected us.”

[…]

Along with sadness and dismay, many evangelicals expressed guilt and regret that they did not fight harder against what Scripture tells them is a sin.

The Rev. Bill Owens, president of the Memphis-based Coalition of African American Pastors, said conservative ministers are now organizing to oppose the ruling, planning protests in the South as they did during the civil rights era.

“It’s not over. The Supreme Court has gotten things wrong. It got the Dred Scott decision wrong,” Owens said, referring to the 1857 ruling that propped up slavery.

[…]

Q: So what’s the point of protesting in the US South when the USSC ruling affects all 50 states?

A: Politics - this is just the politics of God, once more.

14 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 6:52:28pm

re: #8 RealityBasedSteve

Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz’s father, and others don’t even try to hide the Seven Mountains strategy.

15 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 7, 2015 6:54:21pm

re: #13 freetoken

‘Satan is subtle,’ same-sex marriage foes warn as they prepare to fight court ruling

Q: So what’s the point of protesting in the US South when the USSC ruling affects all 50 states?

A: Politics - this is just the politics of God, once more.

I’m not 100% convinced that God is concerned about the Super Bowl or the World Series. If he’s not involved at that level, no way I can believe he’s tracking our politics.

RBS

16 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 6:54:39pm

June 20, 2014: Rafael Cruz Preaches Seven Mountains Theology, Tells Activists To ‘Stop Electing The Village Idiot’ - See more at: rightwingwatch.org

October 17, 2013: Ted Cruz’s Father Suggested His Son Is ‘Anointed’ to Bring About ‘End Time Transfer of Wealth’
alternet.org

17 Charles Johnson  Jul 7, 2015 6:57:19pm
18 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 6:57:22pm

Putting the Taliban in Christian Taliban.

19 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 7, 2015 6:57:45pm

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

June 20, 2014: Rafael Cruz Preaches Seven Mountains Theology, Tells Activists To ‘Stop Electing The Village Idiot’ - See more at: rightwingwatch.org

October 17, 2013: Ted Cruz’s Father Suggested His Son Is ‘Anointed’ to Bring About ‘End Time Transfer of Wealth’
alternet.org

Must not make “Because his mother told me that it was an Angel who told her she was with child, while I was away on that 3 week business trip” joke here.

RBS

20 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 6:58:28pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

Butting the Taliban in Christian Taliban.

I think you meant “putting”, but “butting” works too.

21 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 6:59:45pm

re: #20 freetoken

I think you meant “putting”, but “butting” works too.

I did. This computer sucks. These guys legit scare me.

22 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:00:56pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

And the most insidious part of Dominionism/Seven Mountains is that they start at the very most local of government levels, ie school boards. We see how well that’s working in Texas right now.

23 Amory Blaine  Jul 7, 2015 7:01:17pm

Scott Walker’s office helped draft changes to open records law

Gov. Scott Walker’s office was involved in drafting dramatic changes to the state’s open records law that would have made it harder for the public to monitor how its government works, a spokeswoman confirmed Tuesday.

Spokeswoman Laurel Patrick’s statement came after numerous inquiries from the State Journal in recent days and after Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said Tuesday that Walker’s office collaborated with Assembly and Senate leaders to draft the changes. Minutes after Patrick’s statement, the Senate voted 32-0 to remove the open records changes from the 2015-17 budget.

24 Skip Intro  Jul 7, 2015 7:01:57pm

Get out the nausea medicine.

…

25 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 7:02:04pm
26 The War TARDIS  Jul 7, 2015 7:02:34pm

re: #13 freetoken

I am going to be blunt.

The US is probably heading for a low-to-mid level Civil War. That is at this point, the only outlet for this much rage and anger from the conservative side.

Granted, I think it will be less horrific than what is likely in store for both China and Russia, but it still looks inevitable at this point. I would guess we are looking at the American equivalent of the Troubles at one end, and at the high end, and I would think most likely given the hair’s width difference between them, the Algerian Civil War.

I hope NATO is ready for Article 5 to be invoked inside its most powerful member.

27 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:02:52pm

re: #25 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

If the Founders truly believed we were a Christian nation, they would have made it clear in the founding documents. That they did not should be a big hint to fuckstickles like Cruz and Huckabee.

28 jaunte  Jul 7, 2015 7:02:58pm

How the Religious Right Is Turning Pastors into Politicians

The Texas Renewal Project, part of a web of state-based organizations designed to drag churches into partisan politics, has a new project for turning pastors into politicians.

On Wednesday we saw an email invitation asking pastors to attend an event on August 24-25 at the downtown Hilton Hotel in Austin. The two-day gathering will feature prominent religious-right speakers, including presidential candidate and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, as well as a session called “The Men and Women of Issachar Training.”
………..
At each of the Renewal project events, speakers encourage pastors and their spouses to politicize their congregations after they return home. The list of speakers and what they say do little to hide the desire that congregations be encouraged to support select Republican electoral candidates who oppose abortion, LGBT equality and — more broadly — separation of church and state.

29 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 7:03:21pm

What do I do with this thing? Block it?

30 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:03:59pm

Really, read that Alternet piece from 2013 to see how twisted the Dominionism/Seven Mountains crap is.

In a sermon last year at an Irving, Texas, megachurch that helped elect Ted Cruz to the United States Senate, Cruz’ father Rafael Cruz indicated that his son was among the evangelical Christians who are anointed as “kings” to take control of all sectors of society, an agenda commonly referred to as the “Seven Mountains” mandate, and “bring the spoils of war to the priests”, thus helping to bring about a prophesied “great transfer of wealth”, from the “wicked” to righteous gentile believers. link to video of Rafael Cruz describing the “great transfer of wealth” and the role of anointed “kings” in various sectors of society, including government, who are to “bring the spoils of war to the priests”.

gaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

31 goddamnedfrank  Jul 7, 2015 7:04:32pm
Cruz, the Texas senator, said a five-justice majority “ignored the text of the Constitution” …

Nope, wrong. The majority very clearly adhered explicitly to the text of the 14th Amendment Section 1. What they didn’t do was contextualize it by attempting to Ouija up ghosts of the long dead men that wrote it so as to limit the plain text they wrote down with unstated bigotries.

32 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:04:44pm

I don’t understand quite what Cruz’s religion is.

33 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:05:20pm

re: #31 goddamnedfrank

Nope, wrong. The majority very clearly adhered explicitly to the text of the 14th Amendment Section 1. What they didn’t do was contextualize it by attempting to Ouija up ghosts of the long dead men that wrote it so as to limit the plain text they wrote down with unstated bigotries.

Right. If anything, Cruz’s friends the four dissidents are the ones who ignored the Constitution and precedent.

34 The War TARDIS  Jul 7, 2015 7:07:03pm

re: #26 The War TARDIS

And I think NATO Article 5 will be invoked, and likely approved. I fully expect the other side to go full-on ISIS on anyone not White, Heterosexual, Conservative, and Evangelical.

I would even predict War-Crime Trials at the Hague.

35 jaunte  Jul 7, 2015 7:07:22pm

“About Issachar Training” (do not linked)
issachartraining.org

“…If we advance spiritual men and women into the public square-people who know Wisdom-then we improve America’s chances for remaining free. We trust in the Lord and we marshal the army. Or as John Quincy Adams said, “Duty is ours; results are God’s.”

36 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:08:27pm

re: #34 The War TARDIS

And I think NATO Article 5 will be invoked, and likely approved. I fully expect the other side to go full-on ISIS on anyone not White, Heterosexual, Conservative, and Evangelical.

I would even predict War-Crime Trials at the Hague.

Chill out, already.

37 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:08:45pm

re: #28 jaunte

How the Religious Right Is Turning Pastors into Politicians

Also from Texastan:

GOP lawmaker calls on Texas to defy ‘rancid’ same-sex marriage ruling by impeaching Supreme Court justices

[…]

At a press conference in Magnolia, Bell released his “PACT for the Constitutional Restoration of State Sovereignty,” essentially a manifesto listing broad ways for citizens and state and federal officials to come together and defy the Supreme Court ruling. Citizens should pressure elected officials to stop enforcing the ruling, and Congress should take action to impeach the five justices who voted to end state bans on gay marriage, Bell said.

[…]

38 The War TARDIS  Jul 7, 2015 7:10:03pm

re: #36 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m curious how you think this will de-escalate in this country.

They have gotten so riled, up I don’t think this will end without a massive outburst of violence.

39 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jul 7, 2015 7:10:50pm

Cruz and crew don’t hold a candle to Scary Gary North.

Gary Kilgore North is a Dominionist Calvinist writer, one of the leaders of the Christian Reconstructionist movement (son-in-law of R.J. Rushdoony, for instance), and one of the most explicit Talibanists in the US at present. What distinguishes North from most other central reconstructionist thinkers, such as David Barton, Kirk Cameron or Gary DeMar, is that North actually agrees with minimally sane people that the Constitution does not justify theocracy and is not a continuation of the Bible. North’s response, though, is that the Constitution should be rejected in favor of a new theocratic form of government based on the Old Testament (the Constitution, according to North, was a scam). After all, this is the only proper response to the current decline of America, as described in his book Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism. To quote from the book: “The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church’s public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.” Yep, those good old days when everything was better.

His political vision is laid out in the “Sinai Strategy”. As most Taliban dominionists, North ignores the New Testament and its teachings of mercy and forgiveness, and instead focuses on various forms of corporal punishment, such as stoning: “Why stoning?” asks North (rhetorically). “There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost … executions are community projects – not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do ‘his duty,’ but rather with actual participants … That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christians.” Yep, that’s Gary North for you (he might actually be correct about the last point, but that’s sort of a different matter).

What sort of crimes would merit such punishments? Well, blasphemy for sure: “The question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime.” See how unfortunate we are, we who have let the ideals of humanism send us straight into barbarism?

So, in conclusion, when it comes to dealing with religious liberty (from his article “The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right”): “we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.” North’s views on education are also presented in homeschooling activist Colin Gunn’s documentary “IndoctriNation: Public Schools and the Decline of Christianity in America.”

North is also famous – and got his nickname – from his promotion of Y2K hysteria during the late 1990s (the story, including North’s response to the rather obvious failure of his doomsday predictions, is here; also here).

North is also a prominent member within the paleo-libertarian movement, having written for The Freeman (and currently for Lew Rockwell’s site); he was also a research assistant for Ron Paul in the 70s. Much of his writings are, accordingly, attempts to synthesize theocracy with Austrian school economics (or “the reiki of economy”), as he tried in Inheritance and Dominion: An Economic Commentary on Deuteronomy or Treasure and Dominion: An Economic Commentary on Luke. He has also co-written the book Fighting Chance (promoting Duck and Cover silliness) with Arthur B. Robinson, who is otherwise known for initiating the Oregon Petition.

40 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:10:55pm

re: #37 freetoken

Also from Texastan:

GOP lawmaker calls on Texas to defy ‘rancid’ same-sex marriage ruling by impeaching Supreme Court justices

The contempt for the Constitution these guys have couldn’t be any more blatant.

41 Skip Intro  Jul 7, 2015 7:11:06pm

re: #36 Backwoods_Sleuth

Chill out, already.

Years ago, when I moved to Oregon, I was told that the first thing I needed to do was to get rid of my California license plates if I didn’t want my car to be trashed.

These days, there are states I wouldn’t consider driving through with those plates.

42 jaunte  Jul 7, 2015 7:12:11pm

re: #37 freetoken

More Texas rebellion: County Clerk Molly Criner of Irion County (near San Angelo).

“[T]he federal Judiciary” has “neither Force nor Will, but merely judgment; and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm” and the States, for the carrying out of its judgments, and it is high time that the Court is so reminded.”
tfninsider.org

*”Liberty Counsel, a far-right and rabidly anti-gay litigation group based in Florida, has offered to serve as pro bono counsel for Criner. The Southern Poverty Law Center lists Liberty Counsel, which has ties to the late Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, as an anti-LGBT hate group.”

43 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:12:14pm

re: #26 The War TARDIS

What we are seeing is the leftovers of two social movements:

1960’s modernization of personal ethics away from the faux-Puritanism previously in sway;

The loser-soreness in the old Confederacy, where the aftermaths of the Civil War was and are still being worked out.

I expect that both causes will not prove ultimately to be productive for any party that wants to go revanchist. These kind of things will be overwhelmed by demographics. The younger generation just don’t care for the religious right stances.

44 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:12:45pm

re: #38 The War TARDIS

I’m curious how you think this will de-escalate in this country.

They have gotten so riled, up I don’t think this will end without a massive outburst of violence.

I certainly do not react all ISIS Civil War over every single thing like you do.
How do you manage to get out of bed in the morning, much less get through a day while reacting all over the top horror scenario stuff to every single thing?

Good grief.

45 goddamnedfrank  Jul 7, 2015 7:13:38pm

re: #26 The War TARDIS

I am going to be blunt.

The US is probably heading for a low-to-mid level Civil War.

Nope. This is dumb.

re: #34 The War TARDIS

And I think NATO Article 5 will be invoked, and likely approved. I fully expect the other side to go full-on ISIS on anyone not White, Heterosexual, Conservative, and Evangelical.

I would even predict War-Crime Trials at the Hague.

Just stop. This is all ridiculous sensationalist alarmism. I get that you don’t exactly have a good grasp on human interaction but this kind of shit is not going to happen here. Whatever degree of white christian right wing terrorism does occur inside the US is going to be of the stochastic lone wolf variety. For all the bluster in certain circles the US is far too integrated and interconnected to foster the kinds of examples you’re citing.

46 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:14:27pm

re: #44 Backwoods_Sleuth

I certainly do not react all ISIS Civil War over every single thing like you do.
How do you manage to get out of bed in the morning, much less get through a day while reacting all over the top horror scenario stuff to every single thing?

Good grief.

Have to agree with BWS here. I worry about stuff to Tardis but you come off like a lefty Glenn Beck who sees the Nazis and oppression behind every loss the right suffers.

47 The War TARDIS  Jul 7, 2015 7:17:50pm

re: #43 freetoken

I am far less optimistic than you.

How many times have they said “We’ve come unarmed….this time” or something about a bullet box instead of an ammo box.

I get the feeling that they will try to use force to try and make the US do what they want. I simply don’t see how this will fade away.

re: #44 Backwoods_Sleuth

I will admit that my view of conservatives in the US comes completely from what I see on the news and what I see here. I have not actually spoken to a Republican, save one, in 4 years.

So, my image of the average Republican is an amalgamation of everyone I see in the news, such as Chucky. I genuinely believe he is the average Republican in the US, along with people like Palin.

48 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:18:29pm

Look at the “tea parties” that were ginned up after the 2008 election. For all the puffery, it was mostly old white folk who didn’t like a black President.

It generated enough heat to force Congress into a do-nothing standstill for 6 years.

But… in the meantime the culture has grown even more libertine, accepting not only of gays in general but SSM as well as other issues in regards to sex and gender identity.

Passing of the generations isn’t always even. There are times that are more troubled than others. Most of my lifetime, after the Vietnam war, life in the United States has not been very troubled for most Americans. I expect that to continue until the next great economic crisis or major world war.

Life has always been harder for minorities, but just this week SC finally took down their rebel flag, so things do change.

49 jaunte  Jul 7, 2015 7:20:32pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

How many times have they said “We’ve come unarmed….this time” or something about a bullet box instead of an ammo box.

The vast majority of people grumbling like this have way too much to lose to put themselves at risk. The danger is the individual unstable person who takes it seriously.

50 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 7:21:29pm

I’ma block it now.

51 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:22:26pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

Funny… I’m not usual assigned to the “optimist” category.

Tough times will come, but I am a realist. What we see today in outcries about gay marriage is just one piece in a long string of outcries against the passing of Victorian biases and even older Calvinist stodginess.

Changes that will be more violent will be based on things more out of our control, such as world economics, climate change, and global migration wars.

52 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jul 7, 2015 7:22:47pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

I will admit that my view of conservatives in the US comes completely from what I see on the news and what I see here. I have not actually spoken to a Republican, save one, in 4 years.

So, my image of the average Republican is an amalgamation of everyone I see in the news, such as Chucky. I genuinely believe he is the average Republican in the US, along with people like Palin.

I’m calling bullshit on this. You probably just don’t realize that you’ve spoken to them, because most people don’t wear giant flashing signs that say “I AM A REPUBLICAN, TREAT ME LIKE DIRT.”

What you are doing is not healthy for you. If you can’t detach how you feel about the ideas from how you feel about the people, to the extent of wanting to punish them, that’s really problematic for having healthy relationships with people long term.

I’ll reiterate: if you can take what you have just said and replace the word “Republican” with “Muslim,” reconsider what you are thinking if you would be (rightfully) pissed off by someone else saying it.

53 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 7:22:56pm

It’s actually the opposite of what “Buber Zionist” alleges. Ted Cruz should be assumed to hold all his father’s beliefs, unless he specifically rejects them.

54 ComradeDread  Jul 7, 2015 7:22:58pm
God favors the United States

If He exists, no, He does not. These people do not even know their own bibles:

“For God so loved the world…” John 3:16

“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ” Matthew 5:45, 46

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism” - Acts 10:34

“For there is no partiality with God.” Romans 2:11

I could go on.

55 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:23:39pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

I will admit that my view of conservatives in the US comes completely from what I see on the news and what I see here. I have not actually spoken to a Republican, save one, in 4 years.

This, this right here, is your problem.

I live in a relatively conservative area of a blue state. I’m fairly open with friends and acquaintances about my politics and (lack of) religious beliefs, some of whom vote Republican (and one who even ran with an R by her name in a statewide race in 2014) and none of them are the evil bogeymen you seem to creeping around every corner.

In your predicted Christianist civil war, these folks would come down on the side of sanity, even if they happened to have voted for Bush, McCain, and Romney in the past.

The average American is far more moderate than TV would have you believe.

56 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:23:57pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

I live in an extremely Republican/Libertarian area.
Most of the Republicans here are fairly sensible (aka Eisenhower Republican types, much like me). Those of the Libertarian bent are the lunatics, along with the Bible-thumpers.
We deal with it by voting. I talk to people who think their vote doesn’t matter; that generally comes up in conversation whilst they are complaining about government, especially local government. If they aren’t registered, I get them registered. I’ll drive them to the polling place if necessary.
Civil War and widespread violence is NOT AN OPTION.

57 Mattand  Jul 7, 2015 7:24:00pm

Tardis has a point. I mean, this post is highlighting how the GOP has basically gone full metal religious fanatic. The people who run the fucking party have spent the last 6 years screaming “AUGGH!!! BLACK SECRET MUSLIM PRESIDENT PISSES ON THE CONSTITUTION WHILE STEALING YOUR GUNS AND GAY MARRYING YOUR CHILDREN!!!!”

I mean, huge swaths of this country are in denial about both losing the Civil War and why it was fought in the first place. It’s hard to believe they’re all gonna go, “Welp, got that outta my system. I feel better now..”

58 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:24:27pm

re: #54 ComradeDread

If He exists, no, He does not. These people do not even know their own bibles:

“For God so loved the world…” John 3:16

“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ” Matthew 5:45, 46

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism” - Acts 10:34

“For there is no partiality with God.” Romans 2:11

I could go on.

Well these are the people who think the Bible is the justification for their economic vision despite you know the origins of their economic beliefs being written generations after the Bible was. They’re as pick and choosy with the Bible as the liberal Christians they denounce.

59 Blind Frog Belly White  Jul 7, 2015 7:25:21pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

If the Founders truly believed we were a Christian nation, they would have made it clear in the founding documents. That they did not should be a big hint to fuckstickles like Cruz and Huckabee.

:Yeah, but Dominionists and other wingnut Christianists are skilled at seeing justification for their beliefs where they don’t exist. Once a Dominionist tried to sell me on the idea that the ‘In the year of our Lord’ dating in the Constitution meant we were a Christian nation. Same argument as that loon from Duck Dynasty clan.

60 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:26:01pm

re: #59 Blind Frog Belly White

:Yeah, but Dominionists and other wingnut Christianists are skilled at seeing justification for their beliefs where they don’t exist. Once a Dominionist tried to sell me on the idea that the ‘In the year of our Lord’ dating in the Constitution meant we were a Christian nation. Same argument as that loon from Duck Dynasty clan.

True that.

61 The Vicious Babushka  Jul 7, 2015 7:26:02pm

Now I have another idjut claiming that Ted Cruz is “Hispanic”

No dipshit, he’s a white man.

62 Amory Blaine  Jul 7, 2015 7:26:09pm

Right wing Jesus wears a cowboy hat.

63 jaunte  Jul 7, 2015 7:26:14pm

re: #53 The Vicious Babushka

I assume that both Ted Cruz and his father are committed opportunists, and their hyper-conservative Christian pose has afforded them the greatest opportunity so far.

64 prairiefire  Jul 7, 2015 7:26:27pm

Folks have been talking about Trump trashing the Latino votes. These two bozos alienate the Asian American vote. The R’s won’t win them back with this. Religious freedom and all that.

65 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:27:13pm

re: #57 Mattand

Tardis has a point. I mean, this post is highlighting how the GOP has basically gone full metal religious fanatic. The people who run the fucking party have spent the last 6 years screaming “AUGGH!!! BLACK SECRET MUSLIM PRESIDENT PISSES ON THE CONSTITUTION WHILE STEALING YOUR GUNS AND GAY MARRYING YOUR CHILDREN!!!!”

I mean, huge swaths of this country are in denial about both losing the Civil War and why it was fought in the first place. It’s hard to believe they’re all gonna go, “Welp, got that outta my system. I feel better now..”

I’ll worry when aspects of Dominionism make it into the national GOP platform. Until then, it’s still on the fringes. It’s scary and stupid, yes, but still fringe.

66 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:28:09pm

re: #61 The Vicious Babushka

Now I have another idjut claiming that Ted Cruz is “Hispanic”

No dipshit, he’s a white man.

I’m actually confused here VB. How wouldn’t he be? I thought Hispanic would be any person of Latin American background? Racially, yes he is white but culturally you could say he is Hispanic as well though he for sure goes out of his way to condescend to the vast majority of the Hispanic community.

67 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jul 7, 2015 7:28:31pm

re: #57 Mattand

Tardis has a point. I mean, this post is highlighting how the GOP has basically gone full metal religious fanatic. The people who run the fucking party have spent the last 6 years screaming “AUGGH!!! BLACK SECRET MUSLIM PRESIDENT PISSES ON THE CONSTITUTION WHILE STEALING YOUR GUNS AND GAY MARRYING YOUR CHILDREN!!!!”

I mean, huge swaths of this country are in denial about both losing the Civil War and why it was fought in the first place. It’s hard to believe they’re all gonna go, “Welp, got that outta my system. I feel better now..”

Yeah, but I don’t think that the majority of the people who vote Republican are actually gorging on ragegasms. I think we’re looking at the 27%, and a sizable contingent of MBF/”both sides do it so I’m going for this side because lower my taxes and universal healthcare is bad but don’t touch my Medicare” folks.

My in-laws vote Republican, for example. And for sure they are not rising up for any kind of civil war. They’d be completely fucking horrified. My grandfather would have been too, despite his diet of Fox News and ignorance. He served this country for 20 years; he believed in fighting for his ideology at the ballot box.

And I disagree with them, but we still manage to all get along tolerably well. Part of that is/was being smart enough to leave politics out of the conversation, because we’re family. (Some families may be able to handle that, but in general not mine.)

68 Amory Blaine  Jul 7, 2015 7:28:54pm
69 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:29:08pm

re: #64 prairiefire

Folks have been talking about Trump trashing the Latino votes. These two bozos alienate the Asian American vote. The R’s won’t win them back with this. Religious freedom and all that.

They basically go out of their way to alienate anyone who isn’t a white person who has forgotten about his own ancestors struggles. I may be white bread as fuck but I also want today’s immigrants to be able to have the same chance that my ancestors did.

70 goddamnedfrank  Jul 7, 2015 7:29:19pm

re: #47 The War TARDIS

I am far less optimistic than you.

How many times have they said “We’ve come unarmed….this time” or something about a bullet box instead of an ammo box.

Yes, because they’re a bunch of chickenshit old blathering retards.

I get the feeling that they will try to use force to try and make the US do what they want. I simply don’t see how this will fade away.

They.will.get.old.and.die. That’s how it fades away.

I will admit that my view of conservatives in the US comes completely from what I see on the news and what I see here. I have not actually spoken to a Republican, save one, in 4 years.

Well that’s stupid. You’re just imagining them as these utterly devoted monsters instead of humans with human foibles. When you realize that they’re just like most of the other Americans around you you’ll see that they’re just as much full of bluster and craving of the recognition of their peers. So they talk a lot of shit, because that’s what we as a people are good at.

So, my image of the average Republican is an amalgamation of everyone I see in the news, such as Chucky. I genuinely believe he is the average Republican in the US, along with people like Palin.

First of all, this is dumb, Chuck is particularly retarded and far outside even the average Republican norm. Second, he and Palin are just blowhard idiots themselves. They’ll never pick up a gun to fight their fellow citizens. You’re shadowboxing with boogeymen and trying to spread fear of people that are truly only deserving of ridicule. Thirdly, the second you say some shit categorizing an entire group of people as literally “an amalgamation of everyone I see in the news” you need to step the fuck back and reexamine your perceptive filters.

71 prairiefire  Jul 7, 2015 7:29:23pm

re: #63 jaunte

Can you imagine the contracts Cruz has ok’d? Golden land of opportunity!

72 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:29:54pm

What has happened is that, for too long now, we’ve been dismissing and laughing off the Dominionists/Seven Mountain people as fringe cranks, while the disaffected portion of the electorate are only hearing the parts that support their narrow sense/POV of being abused by special interests (read=”those other people who get all the breaks I don’t get”).

73 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:30:38pm

re: #65 withak

I’ll worry when aspects of Dominionism make it into the national GOP platform. Until then, it’s still on the fringes. It’s scary and stupid, yes, but still fringe.

Cruz and his father are already there. Huckabee, too.

74 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:31:10pm

re: #67 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Yeah, but I don’t think that the majority of the people who vote Republican are actually gorging on ragegasms. I think we’re looking at the 27%, and a sizable contingent of MBF/”both sides do it so I’m going for this side because lower my taxes and universal healthcare is bad but don’t touch my Medicare” folks.

My in-laws vote Republican, for example. And for sure they are not rising up for any kind of civil war. They’d be completely fucking horrified. My grandfather would have been too, despite his diet of Fox News and ignorance. He served this country for 20 years; he believed in fighting for his ideology at the ballot box.

And I disagree with them, but we still manage to all get along tolerably well. Part of that is/was being smart enough to leave politics out of the conversation, because we’re family. (Some families may be able to handle that, but in general not mine.)

My problem with Tardis’ view is he seems to view all Republicans as being like CCJ and I have to say as much as the Republican worldview genuinely disgusts me, you have to view people as people. A lot of these people are our neighbors, friends or hell in your and many other people’s cases our family. I understand his frustration but at the same time, seeing all conservatives as cartoon characters almost doesn’t help how he looks at this.

75 Lidane  Jul 7, 2015 7:31:29pm

Speaking of stupid, theocratic assholes:

Laser-like focus on the important issues. It’s not like Kansas has any real problems or anything.

76 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:32:22pm

I’m far more worried about Dominionist/Religious Right politics pushing the electorate just far enough to the right to have a serious effect on the next few SCOTUS nominees. Demographics will eventually win out and the social paleoconservatives will die out, but short-term, short-lived electoral gains by Republicans may have far longer-term effects.

77 Great White Snark  Jul 7, 2015 7:32:24pm

Well I’m old enough to remember the 60’s riots on TV and close to grandmas house near Watts. Locally we had the DNC riot, we had the King riots and curfew. Soldiers on the streets. Put me down as thinking it’s not going to be any fun but not a civil war by any serious measure. Nope, we can and will do better than that.

78 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:32:26pm

re: #75 Lidane

Speaking of stupid, theocratic assholes:

[Embedded content]

Laser-like focus on the important issues. It’s not like Kansas has any real problems or anything.

I could be a real asshole and say serves you right Kansas for giving him another chance but at the same time I do feel bad.

79 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:32:30pm

The role of religious extremism in America is that it is poisoning the well of American politics, making our elected bodies weighed down in hot-button measures. Examples:

Va. Republicans vow to protect religious rights after gay marriage ruling

SSM is red meat for politicians to throw in front of the religious right voters:

Kansas governor signs religious freedom executive order

I see the end result of all of this as stultifying the political process to tackle real problems, where pressing issues or larger systemic issues (e.g., banking regulation, or climate change) are not dealt with because hot-buttons are the name of the game.

80 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:32:35pm

re: #75 Lidane

Speaking of stupid, theocratic assholes:

[Embedded content]

Laser-like focus on the important issues. It’s not like Kansas has any real problems or anything.

One guess who is also Seven Mountains…

81 William Lewis  Jul 7, 2015 7:35:04pm

re: #54 ComradeDread

If He exists, no, He does not. These people do not even know their own bibles:

I could go on.

An interesting theological point is that in the Gospel of John, “The World” is used as a shorthand way of saying the corrupt physical world made up of sinners and corruption. To many of those reading or hearing that in the early days of Christianity, The World was seen as irredeemable; it was too corrupt and unholy. This is much as the Dominionists of today paint The World as well.

And yet there you have it: God so loved The World - all of it, no exclusions, no exceptions, the whole World of men and our human nature - that He gave us the Christ to save all of it. And 3:17 goes on and doubles down - that God intends the whole world to be saved. “”Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

That’s everyone. Even if they’re gay or believe in other gods or even the same god but differently. To love our neighbors - all of them - as ourselves. It’s an old lesson, out of Leviticus. Funny how they forget about it, one that Jesus said was crucial to obeying God while worrying about other things there that He didn’t worry about…

82 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:35:39pm

I actually remain some what of an optimistic given I’ve seen two issues that I thought would never get more acceptance gain tons- same sex marriage and legal marijuana.

83 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 7, 2015 7:36:04pm

...

84 goddamnedfrank  Jul 7, 2015 7:38:28pm

re: #74 HappyWarrior

My problem with Tardis’ view is he seems to view all Republicans as being like CCJ and I have to say as much as the Republican worldview genuinely disgusts me, you have to view people as people. A lot of these people are our neighbors, friends or hell in your and many other people’s cases our family. I understand his frustration but at the same time, seeing all conservatives as cartoon characters almost doesn’t help how he looks at this.

“We must not see any person as an abstraction. Instead, we must see in every person a universe with its own secrets, with its own treasures, with its own sources of anguish, and with some measure of triumph.”

– Elie Wiesel

85 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:39:16pm

re: #73 Backwoods_Sleuth

Cruz and his father are already there. Huckabee, too.

Sure, but their views aren’t mainstream GOP thought.

And, IMHO, neither has a chance at a nomination.

Edit: Not sure why this deserves a downding.

86 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:39:24pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

“We must not see any person as an abstraction. Instead, we must see in every person a universe with its own secrets, with its own treasures, with its own sources of anguish, and with some measure of triumph.”

- Elie Wiesel

He nailed it.

87 The War TARDIS  Jul 7, 2015 7:43:44pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

I have probably become a mirror image of what I saw in Colorado Springs, and have done the well known “going from being the persecuted, to the persecutor.”

I know this cognitively. But I have trouble making it stick. Because, I still feel angry about things in the past, and more problematic, I get some adrenaline rush from my anger. I don’t know how to deal with the adrenaline rush part. If I did, I would have moved past it. I would also be lying if I said that other stuff going on is not helping. I use politics as a distraction from other problems.

88 #FergusonFireside  Jul 7, 2015 7:44:46pm

re: #29 The Vicious Babushka

What do I do with this thing? Block it?

[Embedded content]

I’m behind. But VB, a lot of so called patriots would be shocked, shocked to find out your provenance.

Somehow you need to smack them with it.

89 freetoken  Jul 7, 2015 7:45:03pm

re: #87 The War TARDIS

As one ages, while there are many pitfalls with growing old, one of the good things is that the demons of our past can wither up and die, if we let them.

90 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jul 7, 2015 7:45:19pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

“We must not see any person as an abstraction. Instead, we must see in every person a universe with its own secrets, with its own treasures, with its own sources of anguish, and with some measure of triumph.”

- Elie Wiesel

Yes. This.

91 #FergusonFireside  Jul 7, 2015 7:45:54pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

I don’t understand quite what Cruz’s religion is.

Same as Sister Sarah’s, dominion’s great white hope. Nothing more.

92 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:46:25pm

re: #91 #FergusonFireside

Same as Sister Sarah’s, dominion’s great white hope. Nothing more.

She’s something of a Pentecostal IIRC.

93 #FergusonFireside  Jul 7, 2015 7:49:01pm

re: #43 freetoken

What we are seeing is the leftovers of two social movements:

1960’s modernization of personal ethics away from the faux-Puritanism previously in sway;

The loser-soreness in the old Confederacy, where the aftermaths of the Civil War was and are still being worked out.

I expect that both causes will not prove ultimately to be productive for any party that wants to go revanchist. These kind of things will be overwhelmed by demographics. The younger generation just don’t care for the religious right stances.

Still behind, but the post of the young kids re: same sex marriage.

My friend’s 14 year old daughter texted her from NASA camp (YAY) to tell her before I did. And I’m usually the source of news.

94 Mattand  Jul 7, 2015 7:49:16pm

re: #67 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Yeah, but I don’t think that the majority of the people who vote Republican are actually gorging on ragegasms. I think we’re looking at the 27%, and a sizable contingent of MBF/”both sides do it so I’m going for this side because lower my taxes and universal healthcare is bad but don’t touch my Medicare” folks.

My in-laws vote Republican, for example. And for sure they are not rising up for any kind of civil war. They’d be completely fucking horrified. My grandfather would have been too, despite his diet of Fox News and ignorance. He served this country for 20 years; he believed in fighting for his ideology at the ballot box.

And I disagree with them, but we still manage to all get along tolerably well. Part of that is/was being smart enough to leave politics out of the conversation, because we’re family. (Some families may be able to handle that, but in general not mine.)

My problem with all of this is something I’ve said before ad infinitum: the “norms” in the Republican party keep voting for people like Cruz, Santorum, Huckabee, et al. They normalizing this shit.

And as I said either on this thread or the previous: every. Fucking. Time. You point out how batshit the party is, they shrug their shoulders and go “Well, all politicians are bad.”

I ran into this less than a week ago. No one wants to admit how crazy the GOP is. They’re so desperate to maintain the MBF mindset, they’re willing to run the risk of someone like Cruz run this country into the fucking dirt.

95 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 7, 2015 7:49:17pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

She’s something of a Pentecostal IIRC.

She is definitely Seven Mountains and has been since her Wasilla mayor days.

96 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:50:15pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

She is definitely Seven Mountains and has been since her Wasilla mayor days.

Going to read up more on them, thanks.

97 #FergusonFireside  Jul 7, 2015 7:50:16pm

re: #48 freetoken

Look at the “tea parties” that were ginned up after the 2008 election. For all the puffery, it was mostly old white folk who didn’t like a black President.

It generated enough heat to force Congress into a do-nothing standstill for 6 years.

But… in the meantime the culture has grown even more libertine, accepting not only of gays in general but SSM as well as other issues in regards to sex and gender identity.

Passing of the generations isn’t always even. There are times that are more troubled than others. Most of my lifetime, after the Vietnam war, life in the United States has not been very troubled for most Americans. I expect that to continue until the next great economic crisis or major world war.

Life has always been harder for minorities, but just this week SC finally took down their rebel flag, so things do change.

Thank you Freetoken.

98 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jul 7, 2015 7:51:03pm

re: #94 Mattand

My problem with all of this is something I’ve said before ad infinitum: the “norms” in the Republican party keep voting for people like Cruz, Santorum, Huckabee, et al. They normalizing this shit.

And as I said either on this thread or the previous: every. Fucking. Time. You point out how batshit the party is, they shrug their shoulders and go “Well, all politicians are bad.”

I ran into this less than a week ago. No one wants to admit how crazy the GOP is. They’re so desperate to maintain the MBF mindset, they’re willing to run the risk of someone like Cruz run this country into the fucking dirt.

I agree that the MBF stuff is a HUGE issue. But I don’t see most of the folks who are willing to go MBF as also being willing to support a civil war.

I wish we had better ways to address that, so we could work on isolating the crazies.

99 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:53:49pm

Forgive me. MBF?

100 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 7:54:57pm

re: #99 withak

Forgive me. MBF?

Magical Balance Fairy or as you know it in conversation- Well ya know, side A is just as bad as side B because of blah blah.

101 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 7, 2015 7:55:39pm

re: #79 freetoken

…I see the end result of all of this as stultifying the political process to tackle real problems, where pressing issues or larger systemic issues (e.g., banking regulation, or climate change) are not dealt with because hot-buttons are the name of the game.

The Republicans are going after hot button social issues because that’s all that they can do. It isn’t as if they’re chock-a-block with ideas for dealing with any of the nation’s pressing needs. Doing that would require something other than tax cuts and might even require heathen science.

102 withak  Jul 7, 2015 7:57:20pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Magical Balance Fairy or as you know it in conversation- Well ya know, side A is just as bad as side B because of blah blah.

Thanks, I think I got the general idea from context, but knowing the actual initialism is helpful.

103 #FergusonFireside  Jul 7, 2015 7:59:07pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

“We must not see any person as an abstraction. Instead, we must see in every person a universe with its own secrets, with its own treasures, with its own sources of anguish, and with some measure of triumph.”

- Elie Wiesel

We have a finite time to make our life a purpose.

104 HappyWarrior  Jul 7, 2015 8:04:55pm

re: #102 withak

Thanks, I think I got the general idea from context, but knowing the actual initialism is helpful.

No prob,

105 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 7, 2015 8:10:37pm

re: #104 HappyWarrior

No prob,

I’m curious, is MBF a LGF thing, or is it in more common usage?

RBS

106 darthstar  Jul 7, 2015 8:17:13pm

Okay…this is too fucking funny not to share.

107 palomino  Jul 7, 2015 8:21:20pm

re: #85 withak

Sure, but their views aren’t mainstream GOP thought.

And, IMHO, neither has a chance at a nomination.

Edit: Not sure why this deserves a downding.

Depends on how you define the term mainstream.

Huckabee was a Governor and won 8 state primaries in 2008. Cruz won a US Senate seat in a landslide in the nation’s second most populous state. (That’s hardly fringe territory.)

Throw in former Sen. Santorum, former Gov. Perry and current Gov. Jindal, all of whom also have strong theocratic tendencies, and you’ve got one-third of the giant gop field made up of wanna be Clerics-in-Chief.

Maybe this hyper-religiosity isn’t mainstream gop thought to you. But it’s clearly mainstream gop thought in the south (and some of the midwest), the places which happen to be gop strongholds. So there’s a very strong case to be made that this is indeed mainstream gop thinking today. The gop of 2015 is much different than the gop of 1965.

108 klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jul 7, 2015 8:31:02pm

re: #102 withak

Thanks, I think I got the general idea from context, but knowing the actual initialism is helpful.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to post it and then disappear. Email from an app user with bug reports …of the kind I can’t replicate, so required thought in the response so I could ask the right questions to hopefully figure out WTF is going on.

109 withak  Jul 7, 2015 8:32:36pm

re: #107 palomino

Depends on how you define the term mainstream.

Huckabee was a Governor and won 8 state primaries in 2008. Cruz won a US Senate seat in a landslide in the nation’s second most populous state. (That’s hardly fringe territory.)

Throw in former Sen. Santorum, former Gov. Perry and current Gov. Jindal, all of whom also have strong theocratic tendencies, and you’ve got one-third of the giant gop field made up of wanna be Clerics-in-Chief.

Maybe this hyper-religiosity isn’t mainstream gop thought to you. But it’s clearly mainstream gop thought in the south (and some of the midwest), the places which happen to be gop strongholds. So there’s a very strong case to be made that this is indeed mainstream gop thinking today. The gop of 2015 is much different than the gop of 1965.

I’ll refer to my original claim: I don’t see any of that garbage here; I’ll be much more worried if and when that does happen.

Don’t get me wrong; the fact that this hyper-religiosity is even tolerated, much less successful, in the Republican tent is troubling, to say the least. But it’s a far cry from a civil war.

110 CriticalDragon1177  Jul 7, 2015 8:34:41pm

Charles Johnson

For people who claim to love freedom and liberty, Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz sure seem to hate freedom and liberty. People like them may say they cherish our constitution, but in reality they oppose what it stands for.

111 CriticalDragon1177  Jul 7, 2015 8:38:04pm

re: #1 The Vicious Babushka

So I just saw this on Teh Twitters


112 CriticalDragon1177  Jul 7, 2015 8:41:50pm

re: #13 freetoken

The point of protesting in the US is that the homophobes don’t want to admit the defeat. They’ll probably keep anti sodomy and anti same sex marriage laws on the books for awhile, even through the supreme court struck them down, just so they can have an excuse to discriminate against gay people, before they get sued into oblivion.

113 palomino  Jul 7, 2015 8:46:32pm

re: #109 withak

I’ll refer to my original claim: I don’t see any of that garbage here; I’ll be much more worried if and when that does happen.

Don’t get me wrong; the fact that this hyper-religiosity is even tolerated, much less successful, in the Republican tent is troubling, to say the least. But it’s a far cry from a civil war.

No, I don’t think we’re in Civil War territory at all. That’s some other commenter’s view, and I’ve never said such a thing.

But we used to have two parties which were about equally religious, meaning they were both predominantly secular. Indeed, if you look at elections pre-1980, you’ll see that voters who considered themselves very religious or evangelical, voted about 50% D and 50% R. Now we have a secular party and a Jesus party. Which is highly unusual and worrisome in a world where other developed nations are almost uniformly secular.

I’d have to disagree with what you call “that garbage”, as if it were a tiny minority view in the party. It’s not. Rather it has infected virtually the entire south—by far the gop’s strongest region. That’s how you get people like Rick Perry holding a Christian revival in a football stadium with 50,000 in attendance. And it’s how you get state Governors (not just fringe fanatics) calling upon America to have a religious revival or risk being punished by God. Even Rand Paul has adopted such rhetoric, calling for a Third Great Religious Awakening. There was virtually none of this in the GOP of 50 years ago. So the trend towards theocratic thinking is quite clear.

114 withak  Jul 7, 2015 9:09:37pm

re: #113 palomino

No, I don’t think we’re in Civil War territory at all. That’s some other commenter’s view, and I’ve never said such a thing.

Sure, but that’s the greater context that spurred this entire argument. Perhaps my choice of the words “mainstream” and “fringe” was poor.

Your perspective on the recent past and on the South is instructive. I don’t remember much in politics before GHWB and I live in a northern blue state, so I don’t get to see the theocratic leaning of today’s GOP unless it’s part of the national conversation.

115 meteor  Jul 7, 2015 9:12:08pm

re: #4 Amory Blaine

Awww, thanks.

116 withak  Jul 7, 2015 9:21:07pm

You know what? I take it all back. I managed to forget (blissfully I might add) that Michele Bachmann was my representative at one point.

Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.

117 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jul 7, 2015 9:33:08pm

re: #116 withak

At least Emmer is marginally saner.

118 Eric The Fruit Bat  Jul 7, 2015 11:34:53pm

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

Beware the Cash Cow!

119 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Jul 8, 2015 5:16:45am

re: #111 CriticalDragon1177

a bizarre new religion has been invented the last 30 years or so.. one combining fantasy England-centric medieval tropes, white cultural supremacy, and also along with cherry-picked New Testament myth…. a sort of White Man-as-savior and only through the white man can salvation for the entire world be achieved. And a rich white man is the most kingly of all.

A basic conceit with this new religion is that a proper white man is defined as one that supports a laissez-faire economic system at its most fundamental level and as the core religious belief. Mercy and altruism are noticeably missing from the qualifications to be a “king” or “priest”. Gone are any attributed sayings by the Jesus character described in the Gospels.

The rise of Al Qaeda and ISIS I think have been instrumental in the rise of this new psuedo-Christian movement the last 15 years especially as a fearful response to the wanton violence and cruelty these pseudo-Islamic monstrosities display.

120 Saint Stephen  Jul 8, 2015 12:48:13pm

re: #101 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Exactly right!

121 Tigger2005  Jul 8, 2015 1:21:51pm

re: #26 The War TARDIS

I am going to be blunt. I think they are all bark and no bite. They can’t pull themselves away from the buffet line at Golden Corral long enough to mount any kind of “war,” and any open insurrection will be easily put down. More terrorist attacks by the truly disturbed crazies, sure. But most simply don’t have the guts for actual violence. No, they will continue to try to push and worm their beliefs into government on every level, illegally if necessary, but non-violently. If the Civil Rights era didn’t lead to civil war, the current situation won’t either.

122 William of Orange  Jul 8, 2015 1:34:21pm

Hell yeah, and why not rename the country as the Christian version of IS, so CS?

123 danhenry1  Jul 10, 2015 6:14:09am

re: #17 Charles Johnson

Or, try being a Greeter, at a Big Box like HD, in Lynchburg, VA. Its great but scary..in a good way. ‘Have you been saved?’, ‘god will be bringing his wrath on our country’, etc..etc


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