NASA Animation: Dark Side of the Moon Crosses the Earth, From a Million Miles Away

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We live in an age of miracles and wonders. Sometimes, anyway. From a Million Miles: The Moon Crossing the Face of Earth.

A NASA camera aboard the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) satellite captured a unique view of the moon as it moved in front of the sunlit side of Earth last month. The series of test images shows the fully illuminated “dark side” of the moon that is never visible from Earth.

The images were captured by NASA’s Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera (EPIC), a four megapixel CCD camera and telescope on the DSCOVR satellite orbiting 1 million miles from Earth. From its position between the sun and Earth, DSCOVR conducts its primary mission of real-time solar wind monitoring for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

EPIC maintains a constant view of the fully illuminated Earth as it rotates, providing scientific observations of ozone, vegetation, cloud height and aerosols in the atmosphere. Once EPIC begins regular observations next month, the camera will provide a series of Earth images allowing study of daily variations over the entire globe. About twice a year the camera will capture the moon and Earth together as the orbit of DSCOVR crosses the orbital plane of the moon.

These images were taken between 3:50 p.m. and 8:45 p.m. EDT on July 16, showing the moon moving over the Pacific Ocean near North America. The North Pole is in the upper left corner of the image, reflecting the orbital tilt of Earth from the vantage point of the spacecraft.

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313 comments

1
retired cynic  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:21:43pm

Upding for Paul Simon.

2
teleskiguy  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:34:19pm

We live in an age of more and more fascinating and detailed “Pale Blue Dot” photography.

Where are you, Carl Sagan?

3
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:39:02pm

Needs more Prism.

4
Kragar  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:44:34pm

I’ll wait for the WND article explaining how a demon crossed in front of the Earth

5
Great White Snark  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:48:19pm

re: #4 Kragar

I’ll wait for the WND article explaining how a demon crossed in front of the Earth

Is it true the church is coming out with a new exorcise video?

6
Nyet  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:56:53pm

Hi!
2nd round of “Guess the city!”. The prize is a virtual Donald Trump pinata.

7
John Vreeland  Aug 5, 2015 • 9:57:24pm
8
LastYearsMan  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:05:32pm

re: #6 Nyet

Porto!

Beautiful town. Great film festival.

9
FormerDirtDart  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:06:10pm

re: #7 John Vreeland

Navy will charge sailor so Allen West does not look stupid.

Sometimes the DuffelBlog truly nails it

“We didn’t want to waste all the outrage they were building up on a false story,” said Foster. “So the Navy decided we’d just go ahead and charge him so they all wouldn’t feel so silly over nothing.”

“we need to protect the integrity of the outraged veteran community. If it came out Allen West was full of crap, what would Veteran Justice Warriors have to be outraged about, each other?”

I look forward to some member of Congress bringing this up

10
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:06:22pm

re: #6 Nyet

Hi!
2nd round of “Guess the city!”. The prize is a virtual Donald Trump pinata.

[Embedded content]

Still has a Portuguese look to it, but it’s a fairly substantial town, so that just leaves Oporto….

11
Nyet  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:06:44pm

re: #8 LastYearsMan

Enjoy!

12
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:06:54pm

50 seconds late. Curses!

13
TedStriker  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:07:43pm

re: #9 FormerDirtDart

Sometimes the DuffelBlog truly nails it

The end of the “story” was funny too:

In a related story, the Marine Corps will file charges against every Marine recruited out of the Chattanooga recruiting station in the last six months. When questioned on the charges, “sources” within Headquarters Marine Corps said it was because they were still crapping third phase chow.

“They’re friggin’ boots,” said the source. “And boots don’t rate.”

14
LastYearsMan  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:10:56pm

re: #11 Nyet

Thanks. I’ll treasure that photo forever.

Last time I was in Porto, I went to a concert (at a very funky bar that had once been a textile mill), and knowing I was in Portugal, I decided to head out a bit after midnight.

Show didn’t start until 2:30am. Crazy. When I left the club, around 4am, the streets around the bar were all still packed.

Great food. Beautiful architecture. A high recommend from me.

15
Nyet  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:14:42pm
16
Nyet  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:26:24pm

So I noticed this:

I always knew this Pope is a commie!

17
LastYearsMan  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:30:59pm

Nice pics. Among many other cool things, I enjoyed the Livraria Lello bookstore and, of course, the Port wine makers along the river.

Fun fact — JK Rowling lived here for a time, before she wrote Harry Potter.

18
Jenner7  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:45:17pm
19
The War TARDIS  Aug 5, 2015 • 10:49:31pm

re: #16 Nyet

Man, I really wish he got get through the thick skulls of a lot of American Catholics.

20
freetoken  Aug 5, 2015 • 11:25:49pm

re: #6 Nyet

Hi!
2nd round of “Guess the city!”. The prize is a virtual Donald Trump pinata.

Embedded ImageEmbedded ImageEmbedded ImageEmbedded Image

Well, it’s not Grand Island, Nebraska, though both are by a river.

21
freetoken  Aug 5, 2015 • 11:28:19pm

I see we’ve gone with a button bar across the top of a page. When did that show up?

Web page design is a real challenge. Pretty much all web pages are forced into a paradigm that is different from information exchange of the past (books, letters, and even telephone calls.)

I suspect it has something to do with the human finger.

22
freetoken  Aug 5, 2015 • 11:31:50pm
23
teleskiguy  Aug 6, 2015 • 12:07:32am

He’s still got it.

24
teleskiguy  Aug 6, 2015 • 12:33:27am

Heh. No hard feelings, I guess.

25
teleskiguy  Aug 6, 2015 • 12:51:39am

Facebook brought to me a funny.

This squirrels name is Rocky. These two hunters lured him off the reserve with a peanut butter and jelly samich. He was killed as a Trophy. Help this go viral so we can identify these two dentist, I mean hunters.

26
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 2:03:05am

re: #2 teleskiguy

We live in an age of more and more fascinating and detailed “Pale Blue Dot” photography.

Where are you, Carl Sagan?

Slowly re-entering the biome from Tompkins County NY, inhibited by a sealed capsule and lot of industrial chemistry.

27
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 6, 2015 • 3:17:42am

BUSTED: NYPD caught using ‘COPS’ clip from 2003 in campaign against ‘weaponized marijuana’

The New York Police Department used 12-year-old footage from the reality show COPS to illustrate what it called the effects of synthetic marijuana Gothamist reported on Wednesday.

The video was shown during a press conference on Tuesday concerning what Police Chief William Bratton described as a rash of encounters with people using what he repeatedly called “weaponized marijuana,” including a brand known as K2.

28
Dave In Austin  Aug 6, 2015 • 3:40:49am
29
Nyet  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:00:18am

Grand Old Party, isn’t it?

30
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:12:07am

re: #27 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

BUSTED: NYPD caught using ‘COPS’ clip from 2003 in campaign against ‘weaponized marijuana’

Even though the tomato plant in your garden is closer to marijuana than the shit they are calling “weaponized marijuana”.

31
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:19:00am

Morning Lizards.

32
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:25:21am

re: #6 Nyet

Hi!
2nd round of “Guess the city!”. The prize is a virtual Donald Trump pinata.

Embedded Image

Embedded Image

Embedded Image

Embedded Image

I just love that building with the Delft-like facade.

33
Nyet  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:35:26am

re: #32 The Vicious Babushka

en.wikipedia.org

34
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:49:39am

Hi.

35
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 4:52:26am

re: #27 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

BUSTED: NYPD caught using ‘COPS’ clip from 2003 in campaign against ‘weaponized marijuana’

REEFER MADNESS 2.0!1!!

The worthless police chief in Washington, D.C., Cathy Lanier, has been blaming every crime that has been happening in D.C. this year on synthetic drugs.

The other day, the police union head call bullshit on that publicly for the first time.

36
darthstar  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:15:25am

re: #35 Timothy Watson

PCP isn’t pot.

37
Smith25's Liberal Thighs  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:18:16am

re: #31 Bubblehead II

Morning Lizards.

Morning Back to you

38
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:20:17am
39
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:27:26am

Did anybody catch the Arby’s commercial during the Daily Show rerun last night? I first thought it was the show running clips and chyrons over the GOlden Girls theme music (“Thank You for Being a Friend”) but at the end it had the line “Not sure why, but we’ll miss you.”

Youtube Video

40
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:30:47am

Looking like the Antioch theater shooting was more of a planned suicide by cop than a planned mass shooting event.

Questions linger after man terrorizes Nashville theater

But the pistol turned out to be a dud, an airsoft gun, which usually fires BBs and plastic pellets — hardly a deadly firearm. The hatchet inflicted a minor cut on one patron; the pepper spray stung three people’s eyes. But no one was seriously injured.

41
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:48:52am

re: #6 Nyet

Porto?

42
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:49:10am

re: #38 Dr. Matt

It’s amazing how all psychopaths share that same blank, lifeless stare.

I have three reason why this is inappropriate…

43
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:51:50am

Imagine the complete and utter fake shitstorm/outrage if a Democrat referred to a semi-automatic rifle as a “machine gun”.

44
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:52:46am

re: #35 Timothy Watson

Look, there are real drugs with real side effects that can cause aggression, violence, and psychoses. Marijuana just isn’t one of them.

PCP, on the other hand, can.

Cops need to deal with both, and all kinds of other drug users. But it also means not shooting and likely seriously injuring or killing them because of their drug use.

That goes to training and tactics.

Just because someone is high on PCP doesn’t mean that the only way to safely handle the situation is to kill the PCP user. It means making sure that the user is safely contained without doing undue harm to him or others.

It means changing how we address drug users and when/where cops should use firearms.

45
Scout  Aug 6, 2015 • 5:57:01am

re: #6 Nyet

Vila Nova de Gaia

46
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:02:24am

re: #45 Scout

Welcome, hatchling.

47
Great White Snark  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:03:59am

Good Morning Scout and welcome.

Los Angeles peeps gettin a fine sunrise this morning, all hot pink and spectacular. Might just be a good day.

48
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:04:58am

re: #43 Dr. Matt

Imagine the complete and utter fake shitstorm/outrage if a Democrat referred to a semi-automatic rifle as a “machine gun”.

[Embedded content]

Our crew chiefs would sometimes light a cigarette on the barrel of their M-60 door gun after an especially heated exchange with the folk on the ground. Dangerous habit, that.
I’m glad Ted and his friends have found this new way to enjoy their toys.

49
Dave In Austin  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:05:39am

Here it is… Lay this on Danamygunz.

50
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:07:00am

re: #49 Dave In Austin

Technically it’s not the NRA that’s profiting but the gun companies that benefit from the fearmongering about the gunz being taken away - despite no actual guns being taken.

51
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:07:44am

#39 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

It was sung by Ving Rhames, who is the voice of all the Arby’s commercials.

I suspect they will get a few extra sandwiches bought because of that commercial.

52
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:08:13am

re: #43 Dr. Matt

Imagine the complete and utter fake shitstorm/outrage if a Democrat referred to a semi-automatic rifle as a “machine gun”.

[Embedded content]

Because I want my bacon contaminated with gun and rust protection oil from the outside of a rifle barrel.

53
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:08:38am

re: #48 Shiplord Kirel

Our crew chiefs would sometimes light a cigarette on the barrel of their M-60 door gun after an especially heated exchange with the folk on the ground. Dangerous habit, that.
I’m glad Ted and his friends have found this new way to enjoy their toys.

Ted Cruz….A+ rating with the NRA and “responsible gun owner”.

Growing up in a hunting state (Michigan) and 8 years in the USN taught me three simple facts: firearms are dangerous, they are not toys, and should be handled responsibly at all times. Wingnuts spend every waking moment turning their penis extenders into political statements. More proof they have zero business owning or operating them.

54
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:10:56am

re: #48 Shiplord Kirel

Our crew chiefs would sometimes light a cigarette on the barrel of their M-60 door gun after an especially heated exchange with the folk on the ground. Dangerous habit, that.
I’m glad Ted and his friends have found this new way to enjoy their toys.

So I’m supposed to support Cruz for POTUS because he likes bacon and guns. This is worse than “I would like to have a beer with him.” as a qualification to be the head of state. The fact that he spent time and money on this spot disqualifies him from anything higher than dog catcher in a small Texas town (pop 2,000 or less).

55
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:11:20am

re: #52 Timothy Watson

Because I want my bacon contaminated with gun and rust protection oil from the outside of a rifle barrel.

We should encourage all wingnuts to practice such dietary habits as well as using large amounts of salt in their diet, smoke 2 packs/day, don’t exercise, and put butter on everything.

56
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:12:16am

re: #50 lawhawk

Technically it’s not the NRA that’s profiting but the gun companies that benefit from the fearmongering about the gunz being taken away - despite no actual guns being taken.

The NRA gots lots of sponsorship dollars from gun manufacturers

57
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:12:17am

#50 lawhawk: Some of how the NRA makes its money:

Additionally, some companies donate portions of sales directly to the NRA. Crimson Trace, which makes laser sights, donates 10 percent of each sale to the NRA. Taurus buys an NRA membership for everyone who buys one of their guns. Sturm Rugar gives $1 to the NRA for each gun sold, which amounts to millions. The NRA’s revenues are intrinsically linked to the success of the gun business.

The NRA Foundation also collects hundreds of thousands of dollars from the industry, which it then gives to local-level organizations for training and equipment purchases.

58
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:13:08am

re: #54 Iwouldprefernotto

So I’m supposed to support Cruz for POTUS because he likes bacon and guns. This is worse than “I would like to have a beer with him.” as a qualification to be the head of state. The fact that he spent time and money on this spot disqualifies him from anything higher than dog catcher in a small Texas town (pop 2,000 or less).

When Donald Trump is the leading candidate in your party, you’ll do just about anything to get attention. Cruz is desperate because he can’t out asinine Trump.

59
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:13:54am

OT:
Just wanted to mention something that I hadn’t commented on yet. Monday night the wife and I went to the James Taylor show in Youngstown. Great show, James hasn’t lost a beat in all these years. Can still rock out Steamroller. 2.5 hours of great music, a 3 song encore that was perfect. His cover of Knock on Wood was wonderful. Lou Marini on sax and other instruments, just great music.

60
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:15:54am
61
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:16:27am

re: #57 Belafon

So, what you’re saying is that there’s a parasitic relationship where the NRA and gun makers rely on death and mayhem to instill fear (when they’re not pushing the fear angle that government is out to take all their guns) and push for still more sales that result in more death and mayhem.

Gotcha!

62
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:16:33am

re: #58 Dr. Matt

When Donald Trump is the leading candidate in your party, you’ll do just about anything to get attention. Cruz is desperate because he can’t out asinine Trump.

A person who was capable of being President of the US would have the intelligence and foresight to give Trump room enough to burn out and then talk about important issues…I know, I’m being naive, but if Democrats did bacon/gun type of stunts they would be considered unpresidential. The good news is that Ted Cruz will never be cooking bacon in the White House.

63
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:18:36am
64
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:18:54am

re: #61 lawhawk

So, what you’re saying is that there’s a parasitic relationship where the NRA and gun makers rely on death and mayhem to instill fear (when they’re not pushing the fear angle that government is out to take all their guns) and push for still more sales that result in more death and mayhem.

Gotcha!

It’s a vicious profitable circle.

65
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:20:11am

re: #62 Iwouldprefernotto

A person who was capable of being President of the US would have the intelligence and foresight to give Trump room enough to burn out and then talk about important issues…I know, I’m being naive, but if Democrats did bacon/gun type of stunts they would be considered unpresidential. The good news is that Ted Cruz will never be cooking bacon in the White House.

Now, if he did the Bacon/Gun thing on the debate stage tonight, I would support him (and give blood for wounded audience members).

66
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:22:23am

#61 lawhawk:

Pretty much. The NRA is benefiting from the profits of doom as much as the rest of the gun industry.

67
Great White Snark  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:22:58am

re: #60 Dr. Matt

So he sold him an airsoft?

//

68
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:24:51am

re: #62 Iwouldprefernotto

but if Democrats did bacon/gun type of stunts they would be considered unpresidential .

Bingo.

Where is that librul media?

69
makeitstop  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:30:41am

re: #66 Belafon

#61 lawhawk:

Pretty much. The NRA is benefiting from the profits of doom as much as the rest of the gun industry.

That brings to mind a song. Ladies and gentlemen, Clutch.

70
Great White Snark  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:34:19am

So far the NRA has done about nothing to stop the slow moving stealthed California handgun ban. Why would that be? Lots of gun owners here, champion shooters, big celebrity contributors. No gun makers here perhaps, leaving us owners high and dry? I think so.

I posted about that ban before, need to repeat it here?

71
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:35:14am

LOLWHUT
I didn’t know Jon Stewart has $10 billion, a bad combover and declared bankruptcy multiple times

72
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:37:40am

re: #53 Dr. Matt

re: #54 Iwouldprefernotto

Wingnuts also enjoy outdoor cooking, so Ted and his gang would probably have an orgasm at a napalm strike.

And this juvenile psychopath wants us to put him in charge of a major percentage of all the lethal weapons in the world.

73
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:38:04am

Doesn’t matter the religion. There are extremists to be found, and they need to be ostracized, outed, and in some cases arrested when they engage in violent acts or spur others to act violently:

This is abhorrent stuff, and if you swap out the religion, it could apply to pretty much any religious group - though most in the US would identify the extremist as Muslim (thanks Islamophobia). Yet, extremists here who are willing to engage in violence - like against Black Churches - would also consider themselves Christians.

74
makeitstop  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:38:17am

re: #71 The Vicious Babushka

LOLWHUT
I didn’t know Jon Stewart has $10 billion, a bad combover and declared bankruptcy multiple times

Or is running for president.

Critical thinking skills, The Federalist seems to have none.

75
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:38:49am

re: #71 The Vicious Babushka

LOLWHUT
I didn’t know Jon Stewart has $10 billion, a bad combover and declared bankruptcy multiple times

[Embedded content]

Is John Stewart running for President? I Don’t think so, but I would vote for him

76
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:39:55am

re: #73 lawhawk

Doesn’t matter the religion. There are extremists to be found, and they need to be ostracized, outed, and in some cases arrested when they engage in violent acts or spur others to act violently:

[Embedded content]

This is abhorrent stuff, and if you swap out the religion, it could apply to pretty much any religious group - though most in the US would identify the extremist as Muslim (thanks Islamophobia). Yet, extremists here who are willing to engage in violence - like against Black Churches - would also consider themselves Christians.

WHEN IS OBAMA GOING TO INVADE ISRAEL TO PROTECT CHRISTIANS?!!?

OH, WAIT…

77
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:40:40am

re: #74 makeitstop

Or is running for president.

Critical thinking skills, The Federalist seems to have none.

What do you expect from some blog created by a Kochbro?

78
Chan Kobun  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:41:23am

re: #71 The Vicious Babushka

All those flavors and he chooses salt.

79
sizzzzlerz  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:43:11am

There’s another side of the Moon?

Why wasn’t I informed?

80
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:44:47am

re: #79 sizzzzlerz

And sometimes it isn’t even dark.

But for those times, when you do want it dark…

81
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:45:46am

re: #52 Timothy Watson

Because I want my bacon contaminated with gun and rust protection oil from the outside of a rifle barrel.

If Ted does frequently eat bacon prepared in such a manner it would explain a lot about his intelligence and personality.

82
Great White Snark  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:47:46am

re: #79 sizzzzlerz

See what happens when you cut classes and go play? Saw a comedian once who had an act all about how he cut exactly the wrong classes, leading to hilarious situations.

83
scottslemmons  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:53:39am

re: #63 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Yeah, they have to go hardcore extremist because they need to do anything to stand out from the pack . I figure they’ll go Godwin in the first 15 seconds. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if one of them drops the N-word before the end of the debate, because that candidate will immediately shoot to the top of the polls.

84
Dave In Austin  Aug 6, 2015 • 6:55:02am

re: #50 lawhawk

Technically it’s not the NRA that’s profiting but the gun companies that benefit from the fearmongering about the gunz being taken away - despite no actual guns being taken.

I think we all know this. Point still made.

85
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:01:53am
86
Snarknado!  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:02:20am

re: #46 wrenchwench

Welcome, hatchling.

Likewise… even if you stole my cat’s name.

87
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:03:09am

What are they going to debate about? They all say the exact same thing.

88
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:04:52am

re: #87 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

What are they going to debate about? They all say the exact same thing.

They are fighting to see who will lose to Hillary Clinton.

89
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:05:10am

re: #87 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

This isn’t a debate, it’s a show-up for puppets.

90
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:07:00am

Rick Springfield has made a movie with Meryl Streep. I forgot he existed.

91
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:08:09am

Is it going to be an actual debate format or townhall type or rhetoric feast?

92
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:09:00am

re: #91 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Is it going to be an actual debate format or townhall type or rhetoric feast?

Not sure, but I’m NOT going to watch the swimsuit competition!

93
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:10:30am

I guess no one does the macarena any more.

94
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:11:06am

re: #88 Iwouldprefernotto

They are fighting to see who will lose to Hillary Clinton.

Not going there. This is an electorate that has had nearly twelve years to marinate in its own ignorance and resentment since it re-elected George W. Bush. It’s the same electorate that voted in a Republican majority in both houses of Congress. Clinton is not a strong candidate.

95
makeitstop  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:12:05am

re: #86 Snarknado!

Likewise… even if you stole my cat’s name.

Also my dog’s! Welcome, nonetheless, Scout.

96
No Country For Old Haters  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:17:03am

Reddit just banned a bunch of toxic Sub-Reddits
reddit.com

97
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:21:43am

re: #93 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Kid is 17, and attends high school in Conyers, GA. vibe.com

98
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:21:54am

re: #92 Iwouldprefernotto

Not sure, but I’m NOT going to watch the swimsuit competition!

Chris Christie isn’t going to be there is he?

99
stpaulbear  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:22:40am

I’m hoping that Trump shows up to the debates with his own time buzzer.

100
makeitstop  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:24:11am

re: #90 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Rick Springfield has made a movie with Meryl Streep. I forgot he existed.

I saw a billboard for that movie while driving in Connecticut yesterday. Meryl goes against type yet again - I’d never have imagined her in that role.

Also, I approve of her choice of guitar. :)

101
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:27:01am
102
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:30:18am

Prepare for cuteness takeoff in 3… 2… 1…

103
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:30:49am

re: #94 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Not going there. This is an electorate that has had nearly twelve years to marinate in its own ignorance and resentment since it re-elected George W. Bush. It’s the same electorate that voted in a Republican majority in both houses of Congress. Clinton is not a strong candidate.

She’s as strong as we are going to get. It may be close, but Republicans can’t help themselves with their obsessions over abortion, gay marriage, ACA, legitimate rape, EPA, shutting down the govt, ending medicare, bombing IRAN etc.

104
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:33:29am

Not a single one of the candidates is even close to being a centrist. When you say that all the GOPers are right wing extremists, it’s not just a derogative. It’s a statement of fact.

And even Rand’s social views are questionable as being moderate. He too seeks defunding PP and repealing ACA, so how exactly is that moderate?

105
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:35:49am

Quantico is blowing shit up again.

106
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:36:11am

So…this happened last night in Cincinnati:

Officials said around 6 p.m. Tracy Martin, 44, was driving a pickup on the shoulder of southbound I-71 when he first sideswiped four cars. He then rear-ended a Mercedes, causing it to spin out of control, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol . Martin’s truck ended up striking a median wall, which caused it to overturn on top of a Jeep.

After the crash, Martin got out of his truck and began running southbound on the roadway “completely naked,” patrol officials said.

“It was just the most bizarre thing I had ever seen,” said Mindy Banks, who was in a car traveling northbound on I-71 at the time. “I was videotaping when they Tased the man right outside my car. The Taser did not faze him.”

Officials said that drug usage was suspected as a factor in the crash.

cincinnati.com

107
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:37:03am

re: #104 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Not a single one of the candidates is even close to being a centrist. When you say that all the GOPers are right wing extremists, it’s not just a derogative. It’s a statement of fact.

And even Rand’s social views are questionable as being moderate. He too seeks defunding PP and repealing ACA, so how exactly is that moderate?

Well, it’s Jeb Bush’s supporters’ ideology, not his. Some of the people who are more moderate that still identified themselves as Republicans are probably supporting him and Rand Paul might be picking up some of the insane people who were supporting his dad in previous elections.

108
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:37:03am

re: #103 Iwouldprefernotto

She’s as strong as we are going to get. It may be close, but Republicans can’t help themselves with their obsessions over abortion, gay marriage, ACA, legitimate rape, EPA, shutting down the govt, ending medicare, bombing IRAN etc.

All true. OTOH, one of the best ways I know of to lose an election is to believe that winning it is a sure thing.

109
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:39:43am

re: #105 Varek Raith

Quantico is blowing shit up again.

It’s what they do best.

110
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:39:44am

re: #90 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Rick Springfield has made a movie with Meryl Streep. I forgot he existed.

Saw him in the Documentary Movie “Sound City” that was put together by Dave Grohl of the Foo Fighters. The movie is about Sound City Studios out in California and that is whee Rick Springfield recorded and he was their first big money maker. Grohl bought the big studio console and put it in his own studio.

For music fans, it is a great documentary and if you get the Palladia channel they show it often.

111
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:40:03am

bbl

112
sagehen  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:40:27am

question for link collectors:

my wingnut sister has fallen into the anti-planned parenthood vortex, believing the edited tapes, following links from conservative blogs, etc. — and now she’s somehow convinced that healthy women are aborting healthy 24-week fetuses on a routine basis. I need to prove to her this isn’t really a thing. Also, she’s become convinced that “because Obamacare is working, women can get all the non-abortion PP services at all kinds of other places and don’t need PP anymore”.

She is willing to accept actual evidence, when the source of that evidence is recognizably factual/non-partisan. Any suggestions?

113
KerFuFFler  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:41:48am

I don’t know if anyone else posted this link, but this is a fun read at Rolling Stone about some Counter-Jade Helm organizers getting a big helping of nothingburger in Bastrop,Tx.

The comments were a hoot too. You know, the occasional rant about the SPLC being A HATE GROUP and pleas to the sheeple to open their eyes and watch “infowars” videos all interspersed with comments marginalizing these yahoos.

114
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:42:41am

re: #112 sagehen

Also, she’s become convinced that “because Obamacare is working, women can get all the non-abortion PP services at all kinds of other places and don’t need PP anymore”.

She is willing to accept actual evidence, when the source of that evidence is recognizably factual/non-partisan. Any suggestions?

Except for states that have refused to expand Medicaid so there’s still massive coverage gaps.

115
makeitstop  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:45:18am

re: #106 Backwoods_Sleuth

Officials said that drug usage was suspected as a factor in the crash.

cincinnati.com

Ya think? :)

116
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:46:44am

re: #112 sagehen

question for link collectors:

my wingnut sister has fallen into the anti-planned parenthood vortex, believing the edited tapes, following links from conservative blogs, etc. — and now she’s somehow convinced that healthy women are aborting healthy 24-week fetuses on a routine basis. I need to prove to her this isn’t really a thing. Also, she’s become convinced that “because Obamacare is working, women can get all the non-abortion PP services at all kinds of other places and don’t need PP anymore”.

She is willing to accept actual evidence, when the source of that evidence is recognizably factual/non-partisan. Any suggestions?

117
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:48:51am

re: #116 The Vicious Babushka

Except Lauren says the chart is how PP uses its federal funding.
Not sure how that squares with the chart saying 3% is abortion services, since no federal funds are used for that.

118
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:49:26am

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

Except Lauren says the chart is how PP uses its federal funding.
Not sure how that squares with the chart saying 3% is abortion services, since no federal funds are used for that.

Federal funds can be used in cases of rape, incest, or the mother’s health IIRC.

119
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:49:49am

re: #118 Timothy Watson

Federal funds can be used in cases of rape, incest, or the mother’s health IIRC.

oh, ok.

120
whitebeach  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:50:15am

Try a get my head around this. Dude takes maybe three dollars’ worth of bacon that a few minutes in a cast iron skillet could have made a crisp tasty treat and instead burns off fifty dollars’ worth of ammo to come out with a soggy mess of hot fat. And we’re supposed to see this as a reason he should be president?

121
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:50:41am
122
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:51:58am

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

Except Lauren says the chart is how PP uses its federal funding.
Not sure how that squares with the chart saying 3% is abortion services, since no federal funds are used for that.

The article at the link contains more than one chart. The chart included in Lauren’s tweet is a breakdown of all PP activities, not a breakdown of their use of federal funds.

123
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:52:37am

What are all the Benghazi butthurt twibbon dolts doing today?

124
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:53:55am

re: #120 whitebeach

Try a get my head around this. Dude takes maybe three dollars’ worth of bacon that a few minutes in a cast iron skillet could have made a crisp tasty treat and instead burns off fifty dollars’ worth of ammo to come out with a soggy mess of hot fat. And we’re supposed to see this as a reason he should be president?

At this point he’s hoping to be the VP selection.

125
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:54:27am

I had MSNBC on late last night and when I turned my TV on this morning it was just after 6 AM and so Morning Joke was on. They were talking about what they would be talking about on the show and when they mentioned Obama’s speech yesterday on the Iran nuclear deal, Joke went off ranting it was a display of everything bad about Obama…arrogant, accusatory, dismissive…blah blah blah as I changed the channel to local news.

But it got me to thinking had Obama not been an African American president if Joke would have said the same thing. It reminded me of Rush Limbaugh and Mitch McConnell right after the Obama oath of office saying the GOP would never ever work with this president because he is “uppity” and all the standard “stay in your place boy” thinking that has dogged Obama from the first day in office.

I guess bringing Netanyahu to Congress and Tom Cotton and all the boys sending a letter to Iran saying they wouldn’t acknowledge the deal was arrogant, dismissive, accusatory, etc.

As I said yesterday…I really hate Joke Scarborough. I guess his show must be big enough at that time slot to stay on the air…unfortunately.

126
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:56:10am

passive-aggressive political mudslinging:

127
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 7:57:20am

re: #120 whitebeach

Try a get my head around this. Dude takes maybe three dollars’ worth of bacon that a few minutes in a cast iron skillet could have made a crisp tasty treat and instead burns off fifty dollars’ worth of ammo to come out with a soggy mess of hot fat. And we’re supposed to see this as a reason he should be president?

You know what the problem is? You aren’t thinking like a wingnut.

That’s a good thing.

128
Kid A  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:03:18am

Murder suicide in my hood last night.
m.chron.com

129
Lidane  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:03:32am

Just in time for tonight’s GOP shitshow:

130
darthstar  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:04:05am
131
BeachDem  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:05:12am

re: #125 ObserverArt

As I said yesterday…I really hate Joke Scarborough. I guess his show must be big enough at that time slot to stay on the air…unfortunately.

But the show sucks canal water as far as ratings go—

On the last Friday in February, Morning Joe came in dead last in total viewers and had an atrocious 57,000 viewers in “the demo,” industry speak for valuable 25-54-year-olds. That was a recent low point, but both CNN and HLN beat Morning Joe in the demo fairly regularly…

tktk.gawker.com

132
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:08:03am

So this fuckbasket just showed up in my timeline:

Never mind, just blocked it, not even worth making fun of.

133
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:11:46am

re: #44 lawhawk

Look, there are real drugs with real side effects that can cause aggression, violence, and psychoses. Marijuana just isn’t one of them.

PCP, on the other hand, can.

Cops need to deal with both, and all kinds of other drug users. But it also means not shooting and likely seriously injuring or killing them because of their drug use.

That goes to training and tactics.

Just because someone is high on PCP doesn’t mean that the only way to safely handle the situation is to kill the PCP user. It means making sure that the user is safely contained without doing undue harm to him or others.

It means changing how we address drug users and when/where cops should use firearms.

We have had a really big problem here in Austin with the so called synthetic pot. Many have been hospitalized. It can be some bad shit.

google.com

This is why pot should be legal, and regulated.

134
Jay C  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:19:12am

re: #125 ObserverArt

Yeah, righties sure do hate it when President Obama gets all “accusatory”; and even more so when his accusations are accurate and true!

However, I’m not sure a white Democrat in the Presidency for the last 6 years would have gotten treated a whole lot better by the GOP and the right-wing media (well, maybe less of the “Kenyan Muslim” BS and/or overt racism). Ever since the Gingrich Era in the mid-90’s, the Republican Party has operated on the principle - which their well-tuned Noise Machine has thoroughly inculcated in their “base” - that NO non-Republican President (or any other officeholder, or even voter for that matter) has any degree of legitimacy whatsoever, or deserves any degree of political recognition, still less cooperation.

This is after all, the modern political Party whose definition of “negotiation” is fundamentally a demand to “give us everything we want”, and then decry the lack of “bipartisanship” when/if their demands aren’t met.

135
whitebeach  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:20:53am

re: #127 ObserverArt

You know what the problem is? You aren’t thinking like a wingnut.

That’s a good thing.

You may be right. But it’s also the small-minded scale of the thing that bothers me. You want something really presinitial. Think how the Donald would handle it. Where does most good ole USA bacon come from? Let’s say Omaha. OK, take all that bacon and hang it on racks in
a twenty-mile ring around Omaha. Now nuke Omaha. And make the Mexicans pay for it.

136
darthstar  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:22:06am

I hope the Tea Party shows up in force and drums their feet while Walker, Bush, Christie, etc. try to talk. LET’S MAKE SOME NOOOOIIIISSSEEE!!! streaming around the stadium electric display banners…

137
BeachDem  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:26:47am

re: #136 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I hope the Tea Party shows up in force and drums their feet while Walker, Bush, Christie, etc. try to talk. LET’S MAKE SOME NOOOOIIIISSSEEE!!! streaming around the stadium electric display banners…

And then there’s the kiddie table:

​Maybe we should take The Other Seven all out to Burger King for lunch. To their credit, George Pataki and Jim Gilmore are embracing the suck with something resembling enthusiasm because, really, what else have they got? Carly Fiorina has made peace with the fact that she can’t lay off every pollster in America. But Rick Santorum’s camp is not taking this lying down. No, sir. Not for a moment.

esquire.com

138
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:27:39am

re: #133 blueraven

We have had a really big problem here in Austin with the so called synthetic pot. Many have been hospitalized. It can be some bad shit.

google.com

This is why pot should be legal, and regulated.

That doesn’t necessarily follow. People always find ways to augment their intoxicant.
BTW, from your google link, click on the top choice theweek.com and scroll down, there is a really interesting note about Chris Farley being the original voice of Shrek.

139
Jenner7  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:27:40am
140
gwangung  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:28:34am

Yup.

141
Dr Lizardo  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:28:45am

re: #129 Lidane

Just in time for tonight’s GOP shitshow:

Ann Coulter: Latino Community Has ‘Cultural Acceptance of Child Rape’ goo.gl]

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:31:06am

re: #139 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Pretty sure that Bush also called Trump an asshole.

143
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:32:58am
144
Jayleia  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:34:29am
145
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:36:43am

re: #138 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

That doesn’t necessarily follow. People always find ways to augment their intoxicant.
BTW, from your google link, click on the top choice theweek.com and scroll down, there is a really interesting note about Chris Farley being the original voice of Shrek.

Sure, people will do what people will do. But I think most would choose a better, safer product instead of ending up in the emergency room.
Speaking for myself, I would like to be able to buy a product that is not laced with unknown chemicals.

146
Lidane  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:37:58am

re: #136 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I hope the Tea Party shows up in force and drums their feet while Walker, Bush, Christie, etc. try to talk. LET’S MAKE SOME NOOOOIIIISSSEEE!!! streaming around the stadium electric display banners…

Trump entrance music:

This GOP suckfest better be mildly entertaining. I’m cashing in an Uber credit so I don’t have to suffer through the debate sober.

147
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:40:07am

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaa

148
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:40:50am

re: #136 darthstar

Fox will use the actual shot-clock buzzer used during Cleveland Cavaliers basketball games to silence candidates t.co
— NYT Politics (@nytpolitics) August 6, 2015

WHAT ABOUT FREEDUMN OF SPEEEACH?!?!? FRIST ADMENDMENT WRIGHTS!

149
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:42:36am

Ugh

150
darthstar  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:46:23am

Picture of the sun taken this morning from Redding, California - through the smoke from the forest fires in the area. Photographer said he tried to take it earlier but the smoke was too thick to see it so he had to wait an hour. Used his “biggest” lens…you can see solar storms the size of planets…pretty good pic.

151
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:46:24am
152
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:46:42am

re: #149 blueraven

Ugh

[Embedded content]

Jesus Christ on a cracker. I mean, I’m not one to second guess Truman on dropping the bomb, but to celebrate it? Yeesh.

153
darthstar  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:46:52am

re: #139 Jenner7

He also called him an “asshole”…that’s going to go over well.

154
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:48:08am

of course…

155
Jayleia  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:49:56am

Oh god…I’m a fan of pro wrestling…that doesn’t mean I think its real fighting, I think Donald thinks we think its real…

156
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:50:16am

The GOP freakshow is upon us: Why tonight’s Fox News debates could make “Lord of the Flies” look like a picnic
Christie. Huckabee. Cruz. TRUMP. If the names in tonight’s main event are any indication, it’s gonna be a bloodbath

Politics is a serious business. It’s about people’s lives, their hopes, their dreams, their futures. It’s about war and peace and the fate of the planet. It’s wrong to treat it as a sporting event or a form of entertainment.

But not tonight!

Tonight we are being treated to the one time in all of politics when it’s perfectly acceptable, indeed required, to sit back with a cold one and just enjoy the political circus for its sheer entertainment value. Tonight begins the greatest show on earth: the Republican presidential primary debates. And this one is going to be a doozy, featuring as it does the most crowded clown car in Republican primary circus history.

157
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:51:06am

Idiots. All this is going to do is raise the price of firearms and ammo within Seattle city limits as the dealers and stores pass the cost onto the purchaser. It will do nothing to curb gun violence. It will probably in fact hurt dealers and stores as people not wanting to pay the tax will just hop over to Tacoma to make their purchases This is just political kabuki theater at its worst.

Seattle one vote away from tax on gun and ammunition sales

Under the gun violence tax, dealers would pay $25 for every firearm sold then $0.02 for every .22 caliber round and $0.05 for the rest of ammunition.

One other thing. This law would only effect commercially manufactured ammo. It does nothing to address home reloading or internet purchases and will probably lead to an increase of both.

158
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:55:59am

Proposed (working copy) LGF GOP Debate Drinking Game

Tiny sip: Mention St. Ronny Raygun

1 drink: Smear the MSM
1 drink: Criticize the SCOTUS
1 drink: Mention The “Gay Agenda”
1 drink: Mention Benghazi
1 drink: Say “thug”
1 drink: Mention Baby Parts
1 drink: Mention HIllary’s emails.
1 drink: Say “the 2A is a God given Right”

2 drinks: Evoke Christ or Jesus

3 drinks: Blame Bill Clinton for something

4 drinks: Drop the n-bomb

*feel free to add on*

159
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:56:10am

re: #152 Blind Frog Belly White

Jesus Christ on a cracker. I mean, I’m not one to second guess Truman on dropping the bomb, but to celebrate it? Yeesh.

Considering that Truman’s alternative was to consider authorizing Operation Downfall - comprising Coronet and Olympic, which had projected American casualties alone of upwards of 1 million, the prospective use of a nuclear weapon was seen as the least bad option. Coronet and Olympic would have each been larger than the D-day invasions at Normandy. And the Japanese knew that the invasion was being planned, and where it was likely to occur knowing just how few beaches and easily accessible shore points there are around Japan. That meant that the Japanese were able to throw all of their remaining defenses to those places assuring a massive amount of casualties on both sides.

But remember too that the nukes each delivered the kind of damage and carnage that would have otherwise taken multiple air raids and hundreds of bombers to do the same kind of damage. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were spared the air raids that other major Japanese cities endured so that the damage could be compared from the atomic bombs to the standard incendiaries and HE bombs. For instance, Tokyo endured a bombing in March 1945 that saw likely 100,000+ killed.

160
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:56:14am

re: #157 Bubblehead II

So what exactly is the problem with those consequences?

161
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:57:04am

re: #158 Dr. Matt

I would not want to be around the LGF breakfast table tomorrow morning.

162
BeachDem  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:58:50am

re: #151 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

So who is the biggest asshole in the race? Hard to say — it’s so competitive! …

Heh.

wonkette.com

163
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 8:59:07am

re: #159 lawhawk

Everybody ignores the third option, starve the bastards. It still would have exposed US ships to kamikaze attacks and POW to God knows what, but the discussion is always nuke or invade.

164
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:00:40am

re: #152 Blind Frog Belly White

Jesus Christ on a cracker. I mean, I’m not one to second guess Truman on dropping the bomb, but to celebrate it? Yeesh.

Agreed. Truman’s decision was made in light of the casualties suffered by all, including between 42,000 and 150,000 civilians either killed in the fighting or committing suicide, in the invasion of Okinawa. My dad’s ship was bombed at Pearl Harbor and he fought in the Pacific until VJ Day and made a career of the service. Consequently, I grew up around WWII vets. A number of them were grateful that we didn’t have to invade Japan and take it block by block.

165
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:00:44am

re: #160 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

So what exactly is the problem with those consequences?

Nothing. Just posted that to point out the futility of a city passing these types of taxes. They don’t accomplish their stated goals and actually hurt businesses within city limits as people who oppose them will buy elsewhere.

166
Dr Lizardo  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:01:02am

re: #159 lawhawk

I remember what my dad told me; “If we hadn’t dropped the A-bomb on Japan, I’d probably be dead. And so would a hell of a lot of Japanese - way more than died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”

It’s like that story, The Cold Equations; damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

167
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:03:29am

re: #152 Blind Frog Belly White

Jesus Christ on a cracker. I mean, I’m not one to second guess Truman on dropping the bomb, but to celebrate it? Yeesh.

Yes, it is the celebratory moral tone with a seeming desire for the US to go back to those good old days when we weren’t afraid of inflicting massive collateral damage.

The choices for Truman were stark and I have read many thoughtful pieces. This WSJ article is not one of them.

168
Dr Lizardo  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:06:28am

AHAHAHAHAHA

169
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:06:31am

I thought The Donald™ was going to be low key and let the others rabble rouse so he could look more presidential.

From the tweets and other items regarding tonight, it sounds like he is ready to go full fool. I hope he hams it up big time and brings out as much name calling and mud tossing from the others as he can.

I hope he pissed off Kasich so we can see the real Johnny come out.

I really can’t wait. I don’t think I’ve ever looked forward to a political debate as an entertainment comedy show like this. I don’t think that is really a good thing…but here it is in all it’s stinky glory!

170
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:08:37am

If Trump ever became president, we would actually need a subsequent POTUS to go on a real apology tour.

171
Jenner7  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:10:21am

Bountiful mother says exaggerated police report prompted ambush over toy gun

“We received a call from an off-duty police officer who saw someone sticking a handgun out the side of a vehicle and pointing it at homes driving down a major road in Bountiful,” said Lt. Dave Edwards of the Bountiful City Police Department. He said the officers treated the call as “high risk.”

Janelle Woolley said she was driving Friday on 3100 South near the border of Woods Cross and Bountiful with her 17-, 14- and 9-year-old children on the way to Park City for a soccer game when suddenly her family was pulled over and surrounded by multiple officers.

ksl.com

Good grief. Don’t read the comments. “They were just doing their job.” Yeah, okay.

172
sagehen  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:12:28am

re: #159 lawhawk

Considering that Truman’s alternative was to consider authorizing Operation Downfall - comprising Coronet and Olympic, which had projected American casualties alone of upwards of 1 million, the prospective use of a nuclear weapon was seen as the least bad option. Coronet and Olympic would have each been larger than the D-day invasions at Normandy.

The bodybags they purchased to prepare for that invasion still haven’t been used up. Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, all our smaller wars, tsunami relief in Indonesia, earthquake relief in Haiti, every single thing our military has done and everywhere they’ve gone in the last 70 years… still hasn’t produced as many bodies as were anticipated if that invasion had happened.

173
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:14:00am

re: #163 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Starving them really wasn’t considered because of the time constraints before Japan would finally capitulate. It would be months before you’d see starvation be an issue, and by then the Soviets would also be running to grab as much territory as it could and the US/UK wanted to minimize that by bringing a swift end to the war.

During a siege such as needed for starving Japan, you’d see numerous casualties from kamikazi and even if you’ve got ongoing air raids, the casualties would mount on both sides.

It would have been untenable for Truman to let the war drag on while exposing troops without appreciable gains for months. And the Japanese could use a siege/starvation strategy to their benefit in demanding better terms than unconditional surrender.

Time disfavored any strategy that would take months or longer to result in an unconditional surrender.

174
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:14:16am

re: #159 lawhawk

Considering that Truman’s alternative was to consider authorizing Operation Downfall - comprising Coronet and Olympic, which had projected American casualties alone of upwards of 1 million, the prospective use of a nuclear weapon was seen as the least bad option. Coronet and Olympic would have each been larger than the D-day invasions at Normandy. And the Japanese knew that the invasion was being planned, and where it was likely to occur knowing just how few beaches and easily accessible shore points there are around Japan. That meant that the Japanese were able to throw all of their remaining defenses to those places assuring a massive amount of casualties on both sides.

But remember too that the nukes each delivered the kind of damage and carnage that would have otherwise taken multiple air raids and hundreds of bombers to do the same kind of damage. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were spared the air raids that other major Japanese cities endured so that the damage could be compared from the atomic bombs to the standard incendiaries and HE bombs. For instance, Tokyo endured a bombing in March 1945 that saw likely 100,000+ killed.

In the context of World War II, the decision to use the atomic bombs was actually made long before they were available, specifically when the RAF decided to abandon the pretense of precision targeting at night and initiate “area bombing” of cities to “de-house” and demoralize the population. The US did not join in at first, preferring to pursue its pre-war doctrine of daylight precision bombing. The US did endorse the area bombing policy with the declaration of the combined bombing offensive, however. The USAAF treated “daylight precision bombing” as a mantra, a sacred goal to be proven and vindicated at any cost. As events showed that this too was a pipe dream, American planners became less and less scrupulous about who and what they hit, though the pretense of precision targeting was maintained right to the end of the war in Europe.
In the Pacific, American bombers switched over to night time area raids, generalized attacks on whole cities, in March 1945. This was before the commanders, let alone the rank and file planners, knew that the atomic bombs would be available. By the time the atomic bombs were available for use, after the first test in July 1945, dozens of Japanese cities had been burned to the ground and hundreds of thousands killed. There would have to have been a positive decision to change policy and not use the new bomb, rather than a decision to use it. In truth, Truman didn’t make some dramatic decision to use the bomb, he made a decision not to not use it.

175
Dr Lizardo  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:14:31am

re: #172 sagehen

The bodybags they purchased to prepare for that invasion still haven’t been used up. Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf wars, all our smaller wars, tsunami relief in Indonesia, earthquake relief in Haiti, every single thing our military has done and everywhere they’ve gone in the last 70 years… still hasn’t produced as many bodies as were anticipated if that invasion had happened.

I think they’re still using the Purple Heart awards they’d minted for that scenario.

176
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:14:58am

FIRE BOMBINGS FOR EVERYONE!
/

177
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:15:21am

re: #172 sagehen

The produced so many Purple Hearts for Downfall that they’re still using them today.

178
sagehen  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:15:21am

re: #163 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Everybody ignores the third option, starve the bastards. It still would have exposed US ships to kamikaze attacks and POW to God knows what, but the discussion is always nuke or invade.

It would have taken several years to starve them out. In the meantime, the Japanese army was raging through the whole rest of Asia. The surrender meant they stopped what they were doing, thus sparing the millions of Chinese, Koreans, Indonesians etc who’d have been killed.

179
Smith25's Liberal Thighs  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:17:31am

re: #93 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

I guess no one does the macarena any more.
[Embedded content]

Both my kids play baseball through the summer. This is the official song for every little league baseball team we’ve run into this summer. Kids love it.

180
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:19:32am

If Trump was president in 1945, it would have gone down like this with the Japanese:

“Look” I’m going to look ‘em in the eye and say, “Fellas, you’ve had your fun. Your fun is over.”

181
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:19:32am

re: #178 sagehen

The Soviets entered the war right when the said they would. They were probably the only force that the Japanese were truly afraid of. Letting the war drag probably would have let the Soviets take Manchuria at least, and maybe keep all of Korea from the beginning instead of partitioning it. The Japanese armies on mainland Asia would have run out of supplies, being cut off from the home islands.

182
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:19:35am

re: #167 blueraven

Yes, it is the celebratory moral tone with a seeming desire for the US to go back to those good old days when we weren’t afraid of inflicting massive collateral damage.

The choices for Truman were stark and I have read many thoughtful pieces. This WSJ article is not one of them.

Truman doesn’t seem to have been either a cruel or a vindictive man. Still, people with the gift of flawed hindsight insist that we could have otherwise compelled the Japanese surrender. Then I think of the Japanese officer whose WWII commander had to be brought to a remote location in the jungle to formally relieve him of duty - in 1974.

183
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:20:11am

#171 Jenner7:

An armed society is a polite scared society.

184
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:23:32am

re: #158 Dr. Matt

Proposed (working copy) LGF GOP Debate Drinking Game

*feel free to add on*

My Hovercraft is full of ells. Your choice of beverage.

185
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:24:17am

re: #158 Dr. Matt

Proposed (working copy) LGF GOP Debate Drinking Game

*feel free to add on*

TRUMP says “Loser!” or “Dummy!”

186
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:24:30am

re: #158 Dr. Matt

I think I’m going to stick with drinking water. I like my liver.

187
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:25:32am

re: #159 lawhawk

Considering that Truman’s alternative was to consider authorizing Operation Downfall - comprising Coronet and Olympic, which had projected American casualties alone of upwards of 1 million, the prospective use of a nuclear weapon was seen as the least bad option. Coronet and Olympic would have each been larger than the D-day invasions at Normandy. And the Japanese knew that the invasion was being planned, and where it was likely to occur knowing just how few beaches and easily accessible shore points there are around Japan. That meant that the Japanese were able to throw all of their remaining defenses to those places assuring a massive amount of casualties on both sides.

But remember too that the nukes each delivered the kind of damage and carnage that would have otherwise taken multiple air raids and hundreds of bombers to do the same kind of damage. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were spared the air raids that other major Japanese cities endured so that the damage could be compared from the atomic bombs to the standard incendiaries and HE bombs. For instance, Tokyo endured a bombing in March 1945 that saw likely 100,000+ killed.

Coating someone with white phosphorous is immensely more moral than vaporizing them with plasma. This argument restarts every year and every year it’s bullshit.

188
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:27:39am

I’d be surprised if Ronald Reagan wasn’t mentioned at least a dozen times. I’d like to see them talk about W or Nixon.

189
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:28:16am
190
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:30:15am

re: #187 Decatur Deb

It may not be a pretty argument but it isn’t bullshit. They marched by the millions to embark on a war of conquest. They sent their sons and husbands, knowing what they were doing, and what was happening to them, and still they sent more.

191
Black d20  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:34:11am

re: #190 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

It can be pretty easy to forget just how all-in Japan was at the time; regardless of the hows, whens, and whys, the Pacific theatre’s conclusion was going to be ugly and heartbreaking. I don’t envy people who have to look at that kind of no-win situation and try to extract some kind of win from it anyway.

192
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:34:54am

re: #190 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

It may not be a pretty argument but it isn’t bullshit. They marched by the millions to embark on a war of conquest. They sent their sons and husbands, knowing what they were doing, and what was happening to them, and still they sent more.

I’m talking about the relative morality of the physics of death. That’s bullshit.
For the justification of the war, and the way it was waged, that’s for the preachers and historians. I remember that the people of Nanking didn’t get a vote on the means.

193
The War TARDIS  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:35:55am

Well, I found the dumbest Doctor Who story of the year.

I would like to remind everyone that, as bad as the American Press is, at least they seem to a slight step up from the British Press.

194
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:37:38am

re: #187 Decatur Deb

Coating someone with white phosphorous is immensely more moral than vaporizing them with plasma. This argument restarts every year and every year it’s bullshit.

The combined big guns of every capital ship we could bring, plus air raids from nearby islands, plus the purely for hell raising bombardment ships that were already being built, aided by carrier air would have been brought to bear on the Japanese home islands had we not dropped atomic weapons.
Debating the relative morality of the methods of mass destruction is like yelling “Marquis of Queensbury Rules!” when a bar fight breaks out.

195
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:38:42am

re: #192 Decatur Deb

I don’t address the morality of death either. The way I see it, the war had to be ended ASAP. The A bombs were a gamble, if Japan hadn’t surrendered then we were fresh out of them, and it would have taken months to make more. Hell of a choice to have to make.

196
Teukka  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:40:45am

OT, but speaking of bullshit arguments which start over and over again…

<rant>
Last night, a 21-year old woman was found dead in the northern ‘burbs of Stockholm. Cue assorted righties on assorted forums theorizing whether the murderer was a moslem, immigrant, bemoaning the “multicultural violence.”
Ever damn time a rape, murder or murder-rape happens, it’s the same story. And most of the time, it turns out the perp is a Swede or caucasian.
And G-d forbid the victim should have foreign blood, then these bastards begin blaming the victim.

Woman murdered while out jogging in Stockholm
</rant>

Now back to your regular programming

197
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:41:28am
198
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:42:17am

re: #196 Teukka

That sort of thing happen often in Stockholm?

199
The War TARDIS  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:42:29am

re: #187 Decatur Deb

Really?

I would say that White Phosphorus is worse.

The coating in White Phosphorus is an incredibly agonizing death, while vaporization is instantaneous.

The US did a horrific, terrible, and awful thing bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

An invasion of Japan, and all that entailed, would still have been worse.

Let me quote from Mummy on the Orient Express:

Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones. But you still have to choose.

200
Teukka  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:43:01am

re: #198 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

That sort of thing happen often in Stockholm?

This sort of thing? No, relatively rare. Even in the rest of the country.

201
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:43:50am

re: #194 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The combined big guns of every capital ship we could bring, plus air raids from nearby islands, plus the purely for hell raising bombardment ships that were already being built, aided by carrier air would have been brought to bear on the Japanese home islands had we not dropped atomic weapons.
Debating the relative morality of the methods of mass destruction is like yelling “Marquis of Queensbury Rules!” when a bar fight breaks out.

A good friend was on a yard minesweeper that was used as a buoy to mark the line of departure at Okinawa. He would have done the same off Honshu. He really, really, liked the bomb.

202
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:45:45am

re: #200 Teukka

It was the “over and over again” that threw me off.

203
Teukka  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:47:37am

re: #202 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

It was the “over and over again” that threw me off.

That was more relating to the stock rightie response to crimes of this sort of magnitude, who they think did it, what/who is to blame…

204
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:48:13am

Later! Back this evening for the big show.

And, regarding the dropping of the first nukes on Japan. I always try to factor in the ‘demonstration’ factor to the decision. I think using the first nukes wasn’t just about Japan and ending the war. A message was being sent to others in the world about our ability and the ability of all war getting to the point of being totally destructive and more or less asking the world “what the hell are we doing to each other when we have these kinds of tools and abilities?”

205
Timothy Watson  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:50:30am

re: #199 The War TARDIS

It’s, admittedly, hard for me to give a damn when the Japanese murdered millions in China (see Rape of Nanjing, Unit 731, etc.) and the Philippines (the Bataan Death March). The murder of civilians in Nanjing was widely reported in Japan at the time, including a contest between two Japanese officers about how many Chinese they could kill with a sword.

206
Bear  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:51:09am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Yes the use of the bomb probably saved my life as I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to hit the beach.

207
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:52:25am

re: #206 Bear

Yes the use of the bomb probably saved my life as I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to hit the beach.

And it probably saved the life of the kid who was waiting for you.

208
Bear  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:53:33am

re: #207 Decatur Deb

How true.

209
Teukka  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:54:03am

My $.02 worth on the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki:

The bombing of Hiroshima is kind of in the grey area whether it was legit or not. This was war, against an adversary with a record of war crimes.

The bombing of Nagasaki is much more iffy. According to some historians, the narrative that Japan surrendered because of the bombs isn’t the true one, the bombs actually galvanized the Japanese against the US. Things were moving in a direction which would’ve put Japan in a two-front war with the US and Russia, and there is a lot which speaks to the prospect of that being what finally made Japan surrender.

210
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:54:55am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

A good friend was on a Yard Minesweeper that was used as a buoy to mark the line of departure at Okinawa. He would have done the same off Honshu. He really, really, liked the bomb.

As you well know, some of the worst jobs in the military have some of the most innocuous descriptions. The AMS was a damned good boat but a Kamikaze, whether it was a fishing boat or an aircraft, would have done for it in one go.

211
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:55:28am

re: #206 Bear

Yes the use of the bomb probably saved my life as I was a green replacement in one of the divisions scheduled to hit the beach.

I doff my white-hat to you.

212
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:55:31am
213
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:56:49am

re: #212 wrenchwench

“Are you that ballet dancer I went to bed with last night?”

214
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:58:04am

re: #212 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Lip spikes?
WTF, nature?

215
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:59:15am

re: #214 Varek Raith

Lip spikes?
WTF, nature?

Nobody likes to eat live stuff.

216
Bubblehead II  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:59:26am

Idaho is a disappointment to the Nation GOP.

217
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 9:59:57am

re: #210 Higgs Boson’s Mate

As you well know, some of the worst jobs in the military have some of the most innocuous descriptions. The AMS was a damned good boat but a Kamikaze, whether it was a fishing boat or an aircraft, would have done for it in one go.

Used to be one parked down at Panama City Beach. It took divers out—can hold perhaps as many as 30 at a time. (Made of wood, for economy and to avoid magnetic mines.)

218
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:00:39am

re: #215 wrenchwench

Nobody likes to eat live stuff.

While it’s still warm is fine. While it’s still wiggling puts me off a bit.

219
Kragar  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:01:26am

re: #209 Teukka

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate military targets which were slated for conventional bombings prior to any invasion. Hiroshima was home to the HQ for the defense of the southern region, which would have coordinated all military response to allied attacks, while Nagasaki was a major munitions and rail center from which defense forces would have been dispatched from and gotten supplies from.

220
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:03:44am

re: #218 Higgs Boson’s Mate

While it’s still warm is fine. While it’s still wiggling puts me off a bit.

Which is why most ‘You Must Eat Live Food’ advocates are also vegetarians.

221
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:05:22am

#209 Teukka:

I’m reminded of the recent story that some historians were trying to say there were no barriers to newly arriving Irish immigrants to the US getting jobs, until a 14 year old girl looked it up on the internet. Even historians can have an agenda.

222
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:05:44am

re: #212 wrenchwench

Clarifying the venomous v. poisonous subtlety:

io9.com

223
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:05:46am

re: #218 Higgs Boson’s Mate

>=]

224
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:06:50am

re: #219 Kragar

Sorry, I find it impossible to rationalize in that way.
We sure as hell wouldn’t do that today.

225
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:07:39am

First Democratic presidential debate set for October 13 in Nevada

Announcing the Democrats’ debate calendar on the day the first Republican primary debate takes place, the Democratic National Committee also set five other Democratic contests in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida and Wisconsin.

“These six debates… will highlight the clear contrast between the values of the Democratic Party which is focused on strengthening the middle class versus Republicans who want to pursue out of touch and out of date policies,” DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz said in a statement.

226
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:07:47am

re: #222 Decatur Deb

Clarifying the venomous v. poisonous subtlety:

io9.com

With a talking snake! More than one! Thanks!

227
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:08:52am

re: #224 Varek Raith

Sorry, I find it impossible to rationalize in that way.
We sure as hell wouldn’t do that today.

Perhaps not, but only because we did it then.

228
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:10:02am

re: #223 GlutenFreeJesus

No, thank you. I prefer that my sashimi holds still.

229
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:10:24am

re: #224 Varek Raith

Sorry, I find it impossible to rationalize in that way.
We sure as hell wouldn’t do that today.

So, what made us different today? Will it continue to change us?

230
Kragar  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:10:56am

re: #224 Varek Raith

We also don’t have battles where 75,000 Americans end up killed or wounded in less than a month.

231
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:11:01am

re: #225 Dr. Matt

First Democratic presidential debate set for October 13 in Nevada

A Democratic debate? Then Bernie won’t be there.

232
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:11:58am

re: #229 wrenchwench

So, what made us different today? Will it continue to change us?

We are the children of MAD, and we will burn the fucking world down.

233
The War TARDIS  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:12:22am

re: #221 Belafon

I hope that 14 year old is gong places.

234
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:12:25am

re: #192 Decatur Deb

I’m talking about the relative morality of the physics of death. That’s bullshit.
For the justification of the war, and the way it was waged, that’s for the preachers and historians. I remember that the people of Nanking didn’t get a vote on the means.

Just wanted to jump back in to mention while grabbing a sammich for lunch, I was reading up a bit on the Nanking Massacre. I did not realize there is still debate as to whether it was a war crime or just part of war and the numbers of civilians killed. And there appears to still be much denial among some of the Japanese and it still breeds resentment in the entire area between Japan, China, Korea and the Philippines.

1937. Almost 80 years and still a question. Human pride. Ugh.

235
wrenchwench  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:13:46am

re: #232 Decatur Deb

We are the children of MAD, and we will burn the fucking world down.

Our matches are getting damp.

236
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:15:09am

re: #234 ObserverArt

Just wanted to jump back in to mention while grabbing a sammich for lunch, I was reading up a bit on the Nanking Massacre. I did not realize there is still debate as to whether it was a war crime or just part of war and the numbers of civilians killed. And there appears to still be much denial among some of the Japanese and it still breeds resentment in the entire area between Japan, China, Korea and the Philippines.

1937. Almost 80 years and still a question. Human pride. Ugh.

The hero of that story is the fucking Nazi.

(Really not safe for work, and maybe not safe for viewing at home, even the wiki.)
en.wikipedia.org

237
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:15:29am

Ah, the joy of having your house shake because a Marine base is blowing crap up.
/Jade Helm

238
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:15:53am

re: #231 Decatur Deb

A Democratic debate? Then Bernie won’t be there.

He’s running for the Democratic Party nomination.

239
Kragar  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:16:38am

re: #237 Varek Raith

aka base housing in Camp Lejeune

240
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:16:53am

re: #238 Dr. Matt

He’s running for the Democratic Party nomination.

Guess we’d let any old Independent Socialist in.

241
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:16:54am

This is an interesting discussion, but the next time a nuke goes off in anger, that will be it.

242
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:16:56am

Sorry, did not mean to start, again, the age old debate about if the A Bomb was necessary. It was certainly effective.

My reason for bringing this up is that Bret Stephens seems nostalgic for this “clear cut remedy” and appears to be remorseful that we would not apply it to modern conflict resolution.

Modern Hiroshima is a testament to human resilience in the face of catastrophe. It is a testament, too, to an America that understood moral certainty and even a thirst for revenge were not obstacles to magnanimity. In some ways they are the precondition for it.

For too long Hiroshima has been associated with a certain brand of leftist politics, a kind of insipid pacifism salted with an implied anti-Americanism. That’s a shame. There are lessons in this city’s history that could serve us today, when the U.S. military forbids the word victory, the U.S. president doesn’t believe in the exercise of American power, and the U.S. public is consumed with guilt for sins they did not commit.

This is not 1945, it is not WWII.

243
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:17:05am

re: #237 Varek Raith

I used to have the privilege of having the house shake every time the Concorde took off or landed at JFK. Ah.. those were the days. Complete with an earth shattering kaboom as the plane was on final approach or outbound.

244
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:17:27am

re: #239 Kragar

aka base housing in Camp Lejeune

For me, it’s Quantico.
Some really loud ones too.
Artillery?
Disposal?
Not sure.

245
Lidane  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:17:55am

re: #168 Dr Lizardo

246
Lidane  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:19:40am

Someone’s bitter:

247
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:19:48am

The Consimworld website page for the game “Silent War” has been running a “70 years ago in WW2” posting thread for the past four years. (And the equivalent European Theatre thread under the game “Steel Wolves” just recently wrapped up.)

talk.consimworld.com

A lot of tidbit facts turn up in the entries. Including a few days ago the case of 100+ PoWs in Japan itself being sent into a mine by their Japanese guards and then the entrance being dynamited to seal them in. With the fact this occurred not coming to late until the 1949 or so. Plus PoWs being executed as reprisal for US air raids, etc.

War is a brutal thing.

248
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:21:02am

re: #246 Lidane

Someone’s bitter:

[Embedded content]

Aqua Buddha has let him down. He will have to take solace in a more powerful deity.

249
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:21:16am
Democratic Party 2016 Presidential Debates en.wikipedia.org
250
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:21:53am

re: #246 Lidane

Rand Paul: Trump’s Lead Is the Media’s Fault t.co (VIDEO) pic.twitter.com
— Mediaite (@Mediaite) August 6, 2015

Attack the media:

{DRINK!}

251
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:22:13am

re: #244 Varek Raith

For me, it’s Quantico.
Some really loud ones too.
Artillery?
Disposal?
Not sure.

We blew a lot of shit up at Picatinny R&D. Every once in a while the labs would forget to put out notice. We hated that.

252
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:22:16am

re: #246 Lidane

Someone’s bitter:

[Embedded content]

Trump’s lead is because he says shit Republicans actually believe but are too afraid to say it.

253
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:22:49am

re: #251 Decatur Deb

We blew a lot of shit up at Picatinny R&D. Every once in a while the labs would forget to put out notice. We hated that.

That’ll wake you up in the morning.

254
jaunte  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:24:30am

re: #246 Lidane

He likes to “mix it up” without a lot of “name calling.”

Loser!

255
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:25:29am

Ben Shapiro is whining about Jon Stewart.

256
jaunte  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:25:59am

re: #255 The Vicious Babushka

His last chance.

257
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:26:52am

re: #253 Varek Raith

That’ll wake you up in the morning.

Get your attention when you’re at the HE melt-pour operation.

258
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:27:55am

And after reading about the Soviet Union Tsar Bomba nuke test from a mention here at LGF the other day…I hope no nukes ever get unleashed. Reading the wiki page and some other stuff on that test scared the crap outta me. I guess I never knew the details of all that. Wow.

Remembering there was some discussion in the scientific community as to whether a nuke could set off an explosion of earth’s atmosphere all I can think of is what the hell were we doing? Talk about a nowhere road. How did the scientists keep their shit together while doing all of this? I am too much the artist type I guess. I would have freaked out knowing the power I was a part of.

Wiki - Tsar Bomba

Okay..back later.

259
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:27:58am

re: #257 Decatur Deb

Get your attention when you’re at the HE melt-pour operation.

Sounds like a blast.
/I’ll let myself out

260
blueraven  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:28:08am

BTW, some amazing photos here at The Atlantic of Nuclear Bomb testing over 30 years.

When We Tested Nuclear Bombs

261
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:29:08am

re: #224 Varek Raith

Sorry, I find it impossible to rationalize in that way.
We sure as hell wouldn’t do that today.

Then why do we maintain the means to blow the surface crust off of a noticeable portion of the earth? The only weapon that will never get used in war is the one that no one has. You are right in one way, we killed proportionately three times as many civilians as a result of invading Iraq than we did at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I attribute that to improved methods of non-nuclear destruction and not to improved morality.

262
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:30:18am

263
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:30:21am

re: #159 lawhawk

The wind made a sound like the Devil laughing.

From one of the survivors of the Hamburg firestorm.

I’ve also read of the wind ripping infants out of their mothers arms to be sucked into the inferno. About people who tried to hide in canals and had their faces burned off when they came up for air. About the handprints still visible on the metal of bridges where people grabbed them.

And that was just the firestorms caused by incendiary explosives. Nuclear is a magnitude worse.

Any person that celebrates such a thing is evil beyond my imagining, and I can imagine quite a lot.

264
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:31:16am

re: #230 Kragar

We also don’t have battles where 75,000 Americans end up killed or wounded in less than a month.

Until the next GOP President that is.

265
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:33:31am

re: #258 ObserverArt

Tsar Bomba…Obama…open yur eyes sheeple!

266
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:35:58am

re: #170 Dr. Matt

If Trump ever became president, we would actually need a subsequent POTUS to go on a real apology tour.

This is assuming that there would be anybody to apologize to. Trump’s the sort who would destroy the world because it now belongs to him and he won’t let any one else play with it after he is done.

267
b_sharp  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:41:17am

re: #258 ObserverArt

And after reading about the Soviet Union Tsar Bomba nuke test from a mention here at LGF the other day…I hope no nukes ever get unleashed. Reading the wiki page and some other stuff on that test scared the crap outta me. I guess I never knew the details of all that. Wow.

Remembering there was some discussion in the scientific community as to whether a nuke could set off an explosion of earth’s atmosphere all I can think of is what the hell were we doing? Talk about a nowhere road. How did the scientists keep their shit together while doing all of this? I am too much the artist type I guess. I would have freaked out knowing the power I was a part of.

Wiki - Tsar Bomba

Okay..back later.

How would a nuke set off the atmosphere?

268
Kragar  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:42:27am
269
jaunte  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:42:51am
270
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:43:50am

re: #267 b_sharp

How would a nuke set off the atmosphere?

Very likely wouldn’t. There wouldn’t be enough neutrons released to continue the reaction in the atmosphere.

271
b_sharp  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:44:46am

re: #270 Eventual Carrion

Very likely wouldn’t. There wouldn’t be enough neutrons released to continue the reaction in the atmosphere.

I meant what did they believe back then?

272
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:48:36am

re: #271 b_sharp

I meant what did they believe back then?

New technology, lack of experience and long term testing data, many unknowns. Like the worry/discussions about the Hadron collider and black hole creation.

274
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:51:16am

DERP OF THE DAY==>

275
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:51:24am

Black hole sun
Won’t you come
And wash away the rain?

276
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:51:58am

re: #274 The Vicious Babushka

What in the ever loving fuck?

277
jaunte  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:52:53am

re: #274 The Vicious Babushka

If you think we shouldn’t have dropped the bomb on Hiroshima but should fund Planned Parenthood, you’re the problem.

Well of course, that’s exactly the choice we’re making.

278
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:54:13am

re: #272 Eventual Carrion

New technology, lack of experience and long term testing data, many unknowns. Like the worry/discussions about the Hadron collider and black hole creation.

The expert worriers were in the minority, but there were some surprises. One of the postwar tests produced yields much higher than expected. The seriousness of radiation illness was also not generally predicted. This is a summary of a 6-volume summary of a whole bunch of after-the-fact:

trumanlibrary.org

279
#FergusonFireside  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:54:22am

re: #260 blueraven

BTW, some amazing photos here at The Atlantic of Nuclear Bomb testing over 30 years.

When We Tested Nuclear Bombs

Amazing. Terrifying.

The mannequin tests, OK…..

280
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:54:41am

re: #277 jaunte

Well of course, that’s exactly the choice we’re making.

I think Ben Shapiro gets dumber every day.

281
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:55:50am

re: #204 ObserverArt

John Keegan’s book A History of Warfare essentially answered that question.

One of the more interesting little pieces of history in that book was how conflict destroyed the people of Easter Island. Their society, Polynesian in nature, broke down. Once that happened who got to run the place was determined by the first warrior who returned with the egg of a sooty tern on a yearly basis. The society fragmented and Easter Island became ruled by tangata rima toto, ‘The men with bloody hands.’

Keegan argued that if our species continues to fight wars the way we do, in a Clausewitzian manner, without limit, we’ll end up being ruled by the tangata rima toto and our planet will be a gigantic Easter Island.

282
jaunte  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:55:52am

re: #280 Iwouldprefernotto

I think Ben Shapiro gets dumber every day.

RWNJ rhetoric: If you can’t Hitler, then you hafta Hiroshima.

283
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:58:51am

re: #210 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Now thinking of that excellent show The History Channel did on the kamikazes.

284
Kragar  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:59:21am

“You simply can’t drink every time one of these guys says something silly,” said Surgeon General Vivek Murthy during a Wednesday morning press conference. “We’ve got three candidates who are prone to gaffes — Jeb Bush, John Kasich and Scott Walker — and then a half-dozen obscure goofballs vying with Donald Trump for a little media attention. It’s just a formula for disaster.”

Murthy suggested that people play a safer variation of the traditional debate drinking game by only consuming alcohol when one of the candidates says something reasonable.

285
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:59:23am

re: #271 b_sharp

I meant what did they believe back then?

it was a theoretical possibility, one that nobody really wanted to test for…

286
BeachDem  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:59:28am

A friend just sent me the link to this set of bingo cards:

(wrong link—here’s the right one)

addictinginfo.org

DRINK!!

287
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 6, 2015 • 10:59:39am

re: #281 Romantic Heretic

John Keegan’s book A History of Warfare essentially answered that question.

One of the more interesting little pieces of history in that book was how conflict destroyed the people of Easter Island. Their society, Polynesian in nature, broke down. Once that happened who got to run the place was determined by the first warrior who returned with the egg of a sooty tern on a yearly basis. The society fragmented and Easter Island became ruled by tangata rima toto, ‘The men with bloody hands.’

Keegan argued that if our species continues to fight wars the way we do, in a Clausewitzian manner, without limit, we’ll end up being ruled by the tangata rima toto and our planet will be a gigantic Easter Island.

It already is.

288
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:00:20am

re: #267 b_sharp

How would a nuke set off the atmosphere?

From this link…Debunked: Scientists risked destroying the earth during nuclear tests and CERN

In 1942 the decision was made to research a fission bomb. However, Edward Teller continued attempts to gain support for creating a much more powerful thermonuclear bomb (fusion bomb). It was during those early years, when fusion was not well understood, before even the first controlled fission reaction, that Teller first speculated about how a fission bomb might ignite the atmosphere with a self-sustaining fusion reaction of Nitrogen nuclei. (Teller developed a track record for overstating the likelihood of fusion reactions. Bethe, a key figure in the bomb’s development, recounted how the H-Bomb could have been produced much sooner were it not for Teller miscalculating the likelihood of thermonuclear reactions.)

And the thinking started with the Germans…Science Musings - What didn’t happen

Speer wrote in his memoirs: “Hitler was plainly not delighted with the possibility that the earth under his rule might be transformed into a glowing star.”

A few months later, in the summer of 1942, American physicists considered the same awesome possibility. By then they knew that a fission bomb was possible. Atoms of uranium 235 are inherently unstable. When one breaks apart (fissions) spontaneously, a tiny amount of energy is released — along with an average of two subatomic particles called neutrons. The neutrons can collide with other uranium 235 atoms and cause them to break apart. With the right amount of uranium — a cantaloupe-sized “critical mass” — a chain reaction of fissioning atoms will release a staggering amount of energy in a tiny fraction of a second.

Physicist Edward Teller considered another possibility. The huge temperature of a fission explosion — tens of millions of degrees — could fuse together nuclei of light elements, such as hydrogen, a process that also releases energy (later, this insight would be the basis for hydrogen bombs). If the temperature of a detonation was high enough, nitrogen atoms in the atmosphere would fuse, releasing energy. Ignition of atmospheric nitrogen might cause hydrogen in the oceans to fuse. The Trinity experiment might inadvertently turn the entire planet into a chain-reaction fusion bomb.

Robert Oppenheimer, chief of the American atomic scientists, took Teller’s suggestion seriously. He discussed it with Arthur Compton, another leading physicist. “This would be the ultimate catastrophe,” wrote Compton. “Better to accept the slavery of the Nazis than run a chance of drawing the final curtain on mankind!”

Oppenheimer asked Hans Bethe and other physicists to check their calculations of the ignition temperature of nitrogen and the cooling effects expected in the fireball of a nuclear bomb. The new calculations indicated that an atmospheric conflagration was impossible.

289
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:01:02am

re: #279 #FergusonFireside

Amazing. Terrifying.

The mannequin tests, OK…..

There is a 1950’s crime drama in which the bad guys, escaping across the desert with victims, hole up in a house full of fresh mannequins.

290
Belafon  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:02:05am

#267 b_sharp:

The bomb could make the air angry, and then it would just start complaining about its wife’s parents and how it’s children don’t respect it and…

Wait until ObserverArt finds out getting out of bed could cause a hurricane.

291
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:02:18am

re: #267 b_sharp

How would a nuke set off the atmosphere?

I think the fear was that the nitrogen in the air would burn with the oxygen in a global chain reaction, but still incredibly unlikely.

292
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:06:27am

re: #278 Decatur Deb

The expert worriers were in the minority, but there were some surprises. One of the postwar tests produced yields much higher than expected. The seriousness of radiation illness was also not generally predicted. This is a summary of a 6-volume summary of a whole bunch of after-the-fact:

trumanlibrary.org

Topography (both man-made and natural) seems to have been a bigger determinant of blast expansion then they expected. Guess that flat desert testing with just a few fake buildings didn’t manifest this phenomenon during our initial testing.

293
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:06:47am

re: #289 Decatur Deb

There is a 1950’s crime drama in which the bad guys, escaping across the desert with victims, hole up in a house full of fresh mannequins.

There is a similar scene in “Amerika” with Brad Pitt…and in the last Indiana Jones movie

294
ObserverArt  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:07:00am

re: #290 Belafon

#267 b_sharp:

The bomb could make the air angry, and then it would just start complaining about its wife’s parents and how it’s children don’t respect it and…

Wait until ObserverArt finds out getting out of bed could cause a hurricane.

I do tend to awaken like I’m shot out of bed. So, there is that possibility!

: )

Damn discussions…eating my time…later.

295
#FergusonFireside  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:10:52am

re: #286 BeachDem

A friend just sent me the link to this set of bingo cards:

(wrong link—here’s the right one)

addictinginfo.org

DRINK!!

We’re all gonna die.

296
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:11:02am

re: #293 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is a similar scene in “Amerika” with Brad Pitt…and in the last Indiana Jones movie

This one was B&W, and the ladies in distress wore stiff shirtwaists.

298
Romantic Heretic  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:11:31am

re: #289 Decatur Deb

There is a 1950’s crime drama in which the bad guys, escaping across the desert with victims, hole up in a house full of fresh mannequins.

That made me think of one of the Dresden File books.

One of the characters was being pursued by a naagloshii, a skinwalker. He lured it onto a nuclear testing range and stepped through a Way into the Nevernever just before the bomb went off.

Those things are so tough that’s what it takes to destroy it.

299
lawhawk  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:12:30am

re: #269 jaunte

The audience running away after the GOP debate
300
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:13:12am

This discussion seems to recur every year. It’s easy to sit here 70 years later and talk about what should and shouldn’t have been done.

I just want people to try to imagine President Truman deciding not to use the bomb. Operations Olympic and Coronet go forward. Hundreds of thousands of American (and British and Free French and Dutch) troops are killed forcing Japan to surrender. Soviet troops advance much farther, probably take all of Korea, and have to participate in a postwar partition of Japan, probably gaining Hokkaido.

After all that, it comes out that the administration had spent 2 billion dollars (back when that was a lot of money), developing the atomic bomb, and then failed to use it. Just picture the reaction. I can’t imagine anybody, not even Harry Truman, having the political courage to do that. It’s just not within the bounds of political possibility.

I may be prejudiced because my dad had been sent back to Hawaii to get ready for Olympic, so I probably wouldn’t be here in the alternative case….

301
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:15:21am

They had better not set HitchBOT II outside the debate arena tonight.

302
Varek Raith  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:17:51am

re: #301 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

They had better not set HitchBOT II outside the debate arena tonight.

No, Romney won’t be there.

303
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:21:47am

re: #300 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

That I’m not living in an America that has spent three or four years fighting implacable enemies who have already shown that they were willing, nay enthusiastic, about fucking over people en masse puts second guessing Truman’s decision out my reach.

304
BeachDem  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:26:19am

Not a bingo card, but a dossier on the positions of the Terrible Ten.

correctrecord.org

305
Eventual Carrion  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:27:21am

re: #299 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

They’re hungry. There were no brains to eat there.

306
Dr. Matt  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:27:25am

re: #299 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Too many minorities in that pic.

307
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:32:58am

re: #299 lawhawk

The audience during the GOP debate:

308
EPR-radar  Aug 6, 2015 • 11:53:30am

re: #224 Varek Raith

Sorry, I find it impossible to rationalize in that way.
We sure as hell wouldn’t do that today.

I doubt that anything has really changed. It may seem different because we haven’t been in a total war since WWII, but if we do end up in a real WWIII situation, we’ll be lucky to avoid the large scale use of nukes by the warring parties. Mass destruction of cities etc. at least by conventional means would be certain.

309
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 12:09:01pm

re: #216 Bubblehead II

Idaho is a disappointment to the Nation GOP.

[Embedded content]

What on earth is that graphic supposed to mean?
Kentucky doesn’t have any outrageous voter ID laws (heck, all I’m required to do at my polling place is to say my name out loud, I don’t even have to show any ID at all).
The only “restriction” on voting in Kentucky has to do with ex-felons, and Kentucky is actively working on fixing that.

310
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 6, 2015 • 12:53:01pm

re: #267 b_sharp

How would a nuke set off the atmosphere?

chemtrails…

311
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 1:08:21pm

re: #309 Backwoods_Sleuth

What on earth is that graphic supposed to mean?
Kentucky doesn’t have any outrageous voter ID laws (heck, all I’m required to do at my polling place is to say my name out loud, I don’t even have to show any ID at all).
The only “restriction” on voting in Kentucky has to do with ex-felons, and Kentucky is actively working on fixing that.

Might include ex-con voting rights. How’s KY?

312
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 6, 2015 • 1:56:37pm

re: #289 Decatur Deb

There is a 1950’s crime drama in which the bad guys, escaping across the desert with victims, hole up in a house full of fresh mannequins.

“Split Second” was on TCM a week or so ago. Murderer breaks out of prison with help from others and ends up holed up in a ghost town near an atomic bomb test - along with hostages. The day before a planned detonation.

en.wikipedia.org

313
Decatur Deb  Aug 6, 2015 • 2:00:54pm

re: #312 Feline Fearless Leader

“Split Second” was on TCM a week or so ago. Murderer breaks out of prison with help from others and ends up holed up in a ghost town near an atomic bomb test - along with hostages. The day before a planned detonation.

en.wikipedia.org

That’s it! Was trying to think of the ‘heavy’, but kept tripping over George Mason.


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