In Which Breitbart’s Ben Shapiro Says Mass Deportation Would Be Cheap

Debased
Image via Shutterstock

The right wing propagandists at Breitbart “News” are frantically cheering for Donald Trump’s mass deportation plans, of course; but the saddest and ugliest comments of all are coming from a guy named “Ben Shapiro,” who thinks mass deportation would be cheap and easy.

Experts say!

I went to Breitbart “News” and tried to find the part where Shapiro actually makes that “case against mass deportation,” because if anyone would be able to do that it would be a Jewish writer, wouldn’t you think? After all, Jews have their own experience with mass deportation, and it didn’t turn out well. To say the least.

But I didn’t find that argument in anything Shapiro has written so far, although I did find lots of praise for Trump’s fascistic immigration policy statement.

UPDATE at 8/17/15 1:49:11 pm by Charles Johnson

Turns out that Shapiro’s “expert” estimate of the cost of mass deportation is off by a factor of at least 4 (and probably much more), according to the right wing American Action Forum: Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds.

And the overall cost to the economy would be truly gigantic.

The study, which the American Action Forum plans to publish later on Friday, tests a rather straightforward proposition frequently offered by opponents of comprehensive immigration reform: How much would it cost to “immediately and fully enforce current law”—that is, to deport all undocumented immigrants while preventing another wave of people from entering illegally?

The answer, researchers found, is quite a lot, both to taxpayers and the economy more broadly. Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney’s infamous “self-deportation” policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth. Researchers Laura Collins and Ben Gitis also write that their estimates are conservative, since they do not include, for example, the cost of constructing new courts, prisons, and other buildings that might be needed to process and detain millions of immigrants.

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256 comments

1
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:30:54pm

You don’t have to repatriate them to the land of their birth, just dump them in Mexico a couple hundred miles south of the border.

2
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:31:37pm

I love the photo on this post.

But the content….fuck. They really want another trail of tears don’t they?

I think Captain Picard put it best:

“some of the darkest chapters in the history of my world involve the forced relocation of a small group of people, to satisfy the demands of a large one. I’d hoped that we’d learn from our mistakes, but… it seems that some of us haven’t.”

3
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:31:41pm

You’d think he’d be sympathetic to immigrants but nope Ben just has to be a dick because that’s what Ben does.

4
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:31:52pm
Ben Shapiro of the Corn
5
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:32:07pm

RWNJ on healthcare reform:

Will explode the budget!!! Trainwreck!!1 Unworkable!! Complicated!!! Too much moneys and taxes!!!11 Will ruin economy and kill all the jobs!!

RWNJ on mass deportations:

No problem, costs no worry, can be done easily. Won’t affect economy at all and even if it does, who gives a sh$t?.

6
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:32:17pm

Charles feel free to use this “Ben Shapiro of the Corn” graphic

7
Lidane  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:32:23pm

MASS DEPORTATIONS ARE CHEAP AND ENDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IS EASY!

8
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:32:23pm

Quick question:

How can the columnists at Breitbart see their screens to type their articles when they’ve got Trump’s dick in their mouth?

9
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:33:36pm

re: #7 Lidane

MASS DEPORTATIONS ARE CHEAP AND ENDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IS EASY!

Me too! Me, too!!1 Me 2!!!!!

10
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:33:42pm

As most of you know I’m a proud immigrant. I’ll have a strongly worded page up on this whole fiasco in the next little while.

11
freetoken  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:34:11pm

re: #7 Lidane

It’s going to be difficult for the more boring GOP candidates to compete with Trump’s gaudy bandwagon.

12
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:37:12pm

re: #11 freetoken

It’s going to be difficult for the more boring GOP candidates to compete with Trump’s gaudy bandwagon.

Honestly, even the more ‘exciting’ candidates can’t compete.

Huckabee says crazy shit all the time, and can’t get any coverage. I mean, the man said he wouldn’t rule out using Federal troops to stop something that has been found to be Constitutional, and which most of the population supports keeping legal. Without Trump, this would have been a big story. With Trump? Barely a ripple.

13
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:38:39pm

Shapiro can’t afford access to the level of expertise it would take to even estimate the cost of mass deportation. The figure he pulled out of his ass is another example of conservatives’ vast trove of “Everybody knows…”

14
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:39:11pm

re: #7 Lidane

MASS DEPORTATIONS ARE CHEAP AND ENDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP IS EASY!

[Embedded content]

See why we think he’s a colossal prick DF. Hate singling you out but this is a guy you have strongly defended here.

15
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:40:11pm
16
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:41:07pm

re: #15 Kragar

[Embedded content]

You first.

17
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:41:11pm

I’ve said for a while that one of the main missing elements needed for the GOP to descend into open fascism is widespread acceptance of scapegoating. Jews are still off limits for this, since the Holocaust has not yet been forgotten or trivialized, and attempts vs. gays/muslims have been made but haven’t really clicked.

The idea of turning the immigration issue into one of scapegoating hadn’t occurred to me, but is obvious in hindsight. This is going to get very very ugly.

18
Teukka  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:44:26pm

re: #17 EPR-radar

I’ve said for a while that one of the main missing elements needed for the GOP to descend into open fascism is widespread acceptance of scapegoating. Jews are still off limits for this, since the Holocaust has not yet been forgotten or trivialized, and attempts vs. gays/muslims have been made but haven’t really clicked.

The idea of turning the immigration issue into one of scapegoating hadn’t occurred to me, but is obvious in hindsight. This is going to get very very ugly.

Yeah. I have a couple of possible targets for scapegoating, like immigrants, LGBTQI, and some other groups. And the Oaf Creepers are darn close to being the equivalent of the SA. So what parts are missing?

“The wrongs which we seek to condemn and punish have been so calculated, so malignant and so devastating, that civilization cannot tolerate their being ignored because it cannot survive their being repeated”
— Justice Robert Jackson, opening address for the United States at the Nuremberg trials.

19
Dave In Austin  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:44:54pm

re: #15 Kragar

You won’t be elected. But Thx for playin’

20
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:49:58pm

Turns out that Shapiro’s “expert” estimate of the cost of mass deportation is off by a factor of at least 4 (and probably much more), according to the right wing American Action Forum: Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds.

And the overall cost to the economy would be truly gigantic.

The study, which the American Action Forum plans to publish later on Friday, tests a rather straightforward proposition frequently offered by opponents of comprehensive immigration reform: How much would it cost to “immediately and fully enforce current law”—that is, to deport all undocumented immigrants while preventing another wave of people from entering illegally?

The answer, researchers found, is quite a lot, both to taxpayers and the economy more broadly. Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney’s infamous “self-deportation” policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth. Researchers Laura Collins and Ben Gitis also write that their estimates are conservative, since they do not include, for example, the cost of constructing new courts, prisons, and other buildings that might be needed to process and detain millions of immigrants.

21
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:52:15pm

re: #15 Kragar

Which guys? Like it matters.

22
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:52:28pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Turns out that Shapiro’s “expert” estimate of the cost of mass deportation is off by a factor of at least 4 (and probably much more), according to the right wing American Action Forum: Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds.

And the overall cost to the economy would be truly gigantic.

My surprise, let me show you it.

23
TedStriker  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:53:12pm

re: #15 Kragar

Yeah, that worked well last time, all of that blood and treasure spilled.

24
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:54:38pm

Funny that in order to make the claim that it wouldn’t cost too much, BS relates it to food assistance. Like no right-winger ever has complained that food assistance costs too much.

25
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:56:26pm

re: #24 iossarian

Funny that in order to make the claim that it wouldn’t cost too much, BS relates it to food assistance. Like no right-winger ever has complained that food assistance costs too much.

26
goddamnedfrank  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:56:42pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Turns out that Shapiro’s “expert” estimate of the cost of mass deportation is off by a factor of at least 4 (and probably much more), according to the right wing American Action Forum: Deporting 11 Million People Could Cost $400-600 Billion, Study Finds.

And the overall cost to the economy would be truly gigantic.

The estimates also do not account for the costs of resulting civil unrest, pro-immigrant protests and anti-immigrant violent reprisals such a policy would encourage.

27
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:57:03pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

The answer, researchers found, is quite a lot, both to taxpayers and the economy more broadly. Removing all 11.2 million undocumented immigrants, both forcibly and through Mitt Romney’s infamous “self-deportation” policy, would take about 20 years and cost the government between $400 billion and $600 billion. The impact on the economy would be even larger, according to the study: Real GDP would drop by nearly $1.6 trillion and the policy would shave 5.7 percent off economic growth.

No problem. Would pay for itself. Wouldn’t really cost this much or take this much time because reasons.

//

28
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:58:44pm

re: #15 Kragar

“If I’m President of the United States, we’re going back to #Iraq & we are going to pound these guys in the ground.”

Who is this “we” of whom he speaks?

29
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:59:18pm

Just like the war in Iraq was cheap?

30
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 1:59:30pm

re: #25 The Vicious Babushka

Sure - the claims that food assistance is a turrible turrible deficit-causing disaster are ridiculously overblown. My point was only that it’s an odd choice for a right-winger to hold up as something that apparently has a negligible cost associated with it.

re: #27 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

No problem. Would pay for itself. Wouldn’t really cost this much or take this much time because reasons.

Funny, isn’t it. Whenever there’s something that right-wingers actually want the government to do, it turns out that the government’s the perfect, lean, efficient machine to do it.

31
goddamnedfrank  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:01:37pm

re: #15 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Lindsey Graham knows a lot about pounding guys.

Sorry … low hanging fruit.

32
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:01:42pm

re: #28 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Who is this “we” of whom he speaks?

Him, John McCain, and the mouse they have in their pocket. Sheesh I don’t think Jeb is even this clueless about Iraq.

33
Reality Based Steve  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:01:55pm

Being a details guy, I’m always interested in how the process is actually going to function, not just the big picture end result.

How are we going to build the wall? Are we going to invoke Eminent Domain to seize the land to build it? If it’s getting located on our side of the border, what’s the status of the land between the wall and the boarder (river). What about the water access for farmers / ranchers / wildlife?

How are we going to just invoke a tariff against Mexico. The NAFTA accords are pretty specific about that, and the President just can’t magic-wand them away.

How are going to to locate, transport, feed and shelter the 11 million (or more) undocumented aliens currently in the country. Are we taking them back to their country of origin? To Mexico?

What’s the desired end state in Iraq? How will the proposed set of actions achieve it? What is the probably repercussions over the short and long time frame? What is the consensus of the senior military staff (active and retired) on this plan?

The Devil, as they say, is in the details. Addressing details requires analysis, study and hard decisions. I’m sure they will not be forthcoming from any of the GOP herd.

34
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:02:21pm

re: #22 The Vicious Babushka

My surprise, let me show you it.

Also, we must cut the deficit and eliminate the debt, and cut runaway spending, etc.

///

35
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:02:42pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

None of these policies have been worked out or given any thought or consideration, they just sound good to the target audience.

36
KGxvi  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:03:24pm

re: #25 The Vicious Babushka

that sliver becomes even smaller when you factor in Social Security and Medicare… of course there’s more than a few wingnuts that would like to eliminate that spending too (for anyone younger than them)

37
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:05:10pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

How are going to to locate, transport, feed and shelter the 11 million (or more) undocumented aliens currently in the country. Are we taking them back to their country of origin? To Mexico?

I think that may be the biggest problem.

38
Tigger2  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:05:23pm

re: #36 KGxvi

that sliver becomes even smaller when you factor in Social Security and Medicare… of course there’s more than a few wingnuts that would like to eliminate that spending too (for anyone younger than them)

That just goes to show just how much greed and the “I have mine fuck you” mindset has taken over this country.

39
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:05:54pm

Also, My Jewish Grandparents came to this country (mostly legal at the time), but the point is that at the time people looked down at Jews. We were dirty, cheap, thieves, had disease, etc. You know the story. The same can be said for the Irish, italians, mexicans, (all of us). So Ben Shapiro go to hell.

/rant

got to go but thinks for all the venting opportunities.

40
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:05:58pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

41
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:06:29pm

re: #40 Kragar

[Embedded content]

You fargin icehole!

42
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:07:14pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

How are going to to locate, transport, feed and shelter the 11 million (or more) undocumented aliens currently in the country. Are we taking them back to their country of origin? To Mexico?

Door-to-door search, preferably without warning in the middle of the night so as to catch the people at home…

43
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:08:01pm

re: #41 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

“I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves. “

44
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:08:10pm

re: #42 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Door-to-door search, preferably without warning in the middle of the night so as to catch the people at home…

And what if the door to door searchers make a mistake and barge into the home of a regular American patriot with gunz?

/

45
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:08:30pm

re: #42 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Long knives to be issued upon request.

46
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:08:48pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

Are we taking them back to their country of origin? To Mexico?

i’ve heard mexicans claim that most of them are from guatemala

de guatemala a guata-peor!

47
coin operated  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:09:41pm

I’ll trade you amendment for amendment. You can repeal the 14th amendment…we get the 2nd?

Deal?

48
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:10:20pm

re: #44 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

And what if the door to door searchers make a mistake and barge into the home of a regular American patriot with gunz?

/

Regular American Patriots would instinctively recognize that they were not the target of the search and withhold fire.

49
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:10:20pm

re: #39 Iwouldprefernotto

Also, My Jewish Grandparents came to this country (mostly legal at the time), but the point is that at the time people looked down at Jews. We were dirty, cheap, thieves, had disease, etc. You know the story. The same can be said for the Irish, italians, mexicans, (all of us). So Ben Shapiro go to hell.

/rant

got to go but thinks for all the venting opportunities.

It’s a good rant. Honestly I don’t know about the status of my ancestors. Some were legal as I got my great grandmother’s Ellis Island papers, others emigrated before there was even this concept or legal or illegal immigrants, and others I just don’t know but even if all were legal, I’d still stand by illegal immigrants because they are trying to do the same thing that your grandparents and my ancestors did and that’s to come here for a better life. How sad is Shapiro that he’s resorting to sounding like a Know Nothing Party member on this. You’d think being Jewish, he’d be aware of what immigrants have had to go through but nope like a good right wing parrot, he parrots the party line. It’s weird that one of the right wingers that got immigration the most was a guy whose family had been in this country generations (W Bush).

50
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:11:18pm

“Fuck it, bring on the cattle cars!”

at this point i think that trump has already fucked the gop with hispanic voters in spades and forever

winning primaries or even getting nominated is not necessary for him to inflict serious damage…

51
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:11:44pm

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided? One parent? Both parents? 7th generation birthright? Children of naturalized citizens?

I’m probably safe on my mom’s side as they’ve been here forever, but my paternal grandfather was naturalized-which back in the day meant your wife and children were too, except that Dad was born here 4 years before his parents became citizens. Would he have been natural born, or would he have been considered naturalized? I’m sure there are even more complicated situations out there.

52
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:12:11pm

One of the funniest things about Trumpmania is what it’s done for those great goals of modern wingnutism, repealing Ocare and defunding Planned Parenthood. Trump’s got ‘em salivating about a wall, a massive government undertaking should it ever be initiated.

53
KGxvi  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:13:33pm

re: #42 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

oh, this could be fun… let’s see how many constitutional violations we could get them to support. they’re already on board with violating the 14th Amendment, probably the due process clause as well… warrantless searches and seizures seem pretty straight forward. maybe we can get them to support housing soldiers in every home to make sure there aren’t any illegal immigrants?

54
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:13:37pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

… I just don’t know but even if all were legal, I’d still stand by illegal immigrants because they are trying to do the same thing that your grandparents and my ancestors did and that’s to come here for a better life.

And the GOP has also just written off all the currently legal US citizens whose parents or grandparents came over illegally.

Or even legally, for chrissakes, they are really just writing off anyone not lily-white

55
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:13:46pm

We should be talking about how to make naturalization and citizenship easier for people not harder. These people are the direct heirs of the Know Nothing Party and what’s truly truly truly sad is some of them are descendants of the people the Know Nothing Party said could never be real Americans.

56
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:14:08pm
57
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:14:23pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided?

By a committee comprised of Tony Perkins, Rick Santorum, Erick son of Erick and Steve King.

/

58
Reality Based Steve  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:14:26pm

I get the feeling that the NYT Reviewer didn’t much care for the new Ayn Rand book…

The story is an ugly, diagrammatic illustration of Rand’s embrace of selfishness and elitism and her contempt for ordinary people — the unfortunate, the undistinguished, those too nice or too modest to stomp and roar like the hard man Howard Roark in “The Fountainhead.” It underscores the reasons that her work — with its celebration of defiance and narcissism, its promotion of selfishness as a philosophical stance — so often appeals to adolescents and radical free marketers. And it is also a reminder of just how much her didactic, ideological work actually has in common with the message-minded socialist realism produced in the Soviet Union, which she left in the mid-1920s and vociferously denounced.

The only redeeming feature of “Ideal” is that both the novel and play are slender works, giving Rand less space to bloviate than in “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Fountainhead.”
As it is, her characters here make comically portentous statements and engage in breathless, grandiose exchanges.

From New York Times

RBS

59
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:14:33pm

re: #54 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And the GOP has also just written off all the currently legal US citizens whose parents or grandparents came over illegally.

Or even legally, for chrissakes, they are really just writing off anyone not lily-white

They’re writing anyone off who can’t point to the Mayflower or the families of Jamestown with this crap.

60
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:15:05pm

re: #52 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

a massive government undertaking should it ever be initiated.

no amount of socialism, enormous government spending projects, and yuge expansion of the federal payroll are too big a price for conservatives to pay as long as they get to vent their racism and kick people in the ass

61
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:15:35pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided?

paper bag test

62
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:16:30pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided? One parent? Both parents? 7th generation birthright? Children of naturalized citizens?

Germany confers birthright citizenship to children born here to legal resident parents. My kids were born German citizens to a US father (me) and a UK mother.

I would not have a problem with amending the US Constitution that way - if we had a comprehensive and fair system of immigration and naturalization.

63
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:16:37pm

re: #51 calochortus

Pure bloodlines and the ability to cite Bible passages from memory

64
Jenner7  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:17:03pm

Sorry if this was shared before…

65
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:17:08pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

It’s a good rant. Honestly I don’t know about the status of my ancestors. Some were legal as I got my great grandmother’s Ellis Island papers, others emigrated before there was even this concept or legal or illegal immigrants, and others I just don’t know but even if all were legal, I’d still stand by illegal immigrants because they are trying to do the same thing that your grandparents and my ancestors did and that’s to come here for a better life. How sad is Shapiro that he’s resorting to sounding like a Know Nothing Party member on this. You’d think being Jewish, he’d be aware of what immigrants have had to go through but nope like a good right wing parrot, he parrots the party line. It’s weird that one of the right wingers that got immigration the most was a guy whose family had been in this country generations (W Bush).

Thing is, this involves shades of gray. Wingnuts (and Moonbats) operate on a strictly bifurcated basis. Black/White. Right/Wrong. Me/You.

I understand that we have to have some kind of control of our borders. I also don’t have any particular interest in deporting the illegal wife of a legal resident, or some guy who is working hard and enduring a lot to support his family back home. It isn’t an easy call to make.

66
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:18:08pm

re: #57 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

By a committee comprised of Tony Perkins, Rick Santorum, Erick son of Erick and Steve King.

/

Well, that certainly solves the problem!

67
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:18:38pm

re: #65 calochortus

Thing is, this involves shades of gray. Wingnuts (and Moonbats) operate on a strictly bifurcated basis. Black/White. Right/Wrong. Me/You.

I understand that we have to have some kind of control of our borders. I also don’t have any particular interest in deporting the illegal wife of a legal resident, or some guy who is working hard and enduring a lot to support his family back home. It isn’t an easy call to make.

Right. I don’t object to deporting violent criminals at all but that guy who is working hard to help his family back home, yeah I got a big problem with deporting him and especially him and his family if they’ve been here longer than they have not.I remember reading about one woman who was deported who didn’t speak a word of Spanish back to Mexico.

68
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:19:20pm

re: #61 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

paper bag test

??

69
Reality Based Steve  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:19:37pm

re: #63 Kragar

Pure bloodlines and the ability to cite Bible passages from memory

I am SOOO SCREWWED!!!!! //Goes_to_start_packing_Bags

70
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:21:29pm

re: #62 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Germany confers birthright citizenship to children born here to legal resident parents. My kids were born German citizens to a US father (me) and a UK mother.

I would not have a problem with amending the US Constitution that way - if we had a comprehensive and fair system of immigration and naturalization.

I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it, but honestly, I don’t think it is worth the effort.

71
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:21:38pm

re: #68 calochortus

??

Way, find out of.

72
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:23:03pm

re: #71 Nyet

Way, find out of.

Apparently not.

73
Sherlock Hound  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:23:27pm

re: #18 Teukka

There’s an easy scapegoat: the poor.

They’re everywhere, and convenient.

74
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:25:13pm

re: #72 calochortus

Apparently not.

The relevant part of the link:
The phrase “brown paper bag test” along with the “ruler test” has traditionally been used by African Americans throughout the 20th and 21st century with reference to a ritual once practiced by certain African-American sororities and fraternities who would not let anyone into the group whose skin tone was darker than a brown paper bag.

75
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:25:34pm

re: #70 calochortus

I wouldn’t have a huge problem with it, but honestly, I don’t think it is worth the effort.

It is certainly worth the effort to come up with comprehensive reform and regulation of immigration and naturalization, but a sane and humane version without the cattle cars.

And no, it will not be cheap.

76
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:25:44pm

By the way - on that NYT article slamming Amazon for being a terrible place to work. I mentioned yesterday that I talked to a friend who works at Amazon and he told me the NYT piece was wildly exaggerated; he enjoys working for Amazon and said it was challenging, but very rewarding.

Here’s a piece at Medium by another Amazon employee who’s basically saying the same things with much more detail: medium.com

I don’t trust the New York Times very much when they do these hit pieces. They go into some stories looking for a negative angle and will write it that way no matter what they find, in my opinion.

77
Teukka  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:26:18pm

re: #73 Sherlock Hound

There’s an easy scapegoat: the poor.

They’re everywhere, and convenient.

Or taking a group which is universally disliked and trying to associate it with other groups.

78
makeitstop  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:27:01pm

Somebody just responded to the Atlantic article on my Facebook feed by posting some chain email bullshit called ‘What If 20 Million Illegal Immigrants Vacated America?’ from a site called Mexicans Go Home . com.

Great Skateboarding Jesus, some people are stupid.

79
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:27:01pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

And it reflects a corporate culture that can be found in companies all over America and the world.

80
Jay C  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:27:11pm

re: #35 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

None of these policies have been worked out or given any thought or consideration, they just sound good to the target audience.

Yep. Got it in one. Hence The Donald’s (disgraceful) appeal….

81
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:27:35pm

re: #77 Teukka

“Why the poor are just like Nazis: A Breitbart 72 part investigative series”

82
Timothy Watson  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:28:09pm
After all, Jews have their own experience with mass deportation, and it didn’t turn out well. To say the least.

Do I get in trouble if I point out Jewish illegal immigration to the Palestine Mandate after World War II and the resulting mass internment in Cyprus?

83
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:28:10pm

re: #78 makeitstop

Somebody just responded to the Atlantic article on my Facebook feed by posting some chain email bullshit called ‘What If 20 Million Illegal Immigrants Vacated America?’ from a site called Mexicans Go Home . com.

Enjoy your salad while you are out mowing your lawn and cleaning your pool. Wife would be cleaning the house, but she is too busy minding the kids…

84
Teukka  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:28:35pm

re: #81 Kragar

“Why the poor are just like Nazis: A Breitbart 72 part investigative series”

Don’t get me started… You won’t like what I would tell…

85
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:28:46pm

re: #75 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It is certainly worth the effort to come up with comprehensive reform and regulation of immigration and naturalization, but a sane and humane version without the cattle cars.

And no, it will not be cheap.

I was referring only to the change in birthright citizenship. Yes, we need a reasonable immigration policy, but I’m not holding my breath on getting one.

86
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:29:39pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Does this also include the cost of building the Big Fucking Wall (tm) needed to keep them from getting back IN?

Half /

87
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:30:14pm

re: #78 makeitstop

Somebody just responded to the Atlantic article on my Facebook feed by posting some chain email bullshit called ‘What If 20 Million Illegal Immigrants Vacated America?’ from a site called Mexicans Go Home . com.

Great Skateboarding Jesus, some people are stupid.

Let me guess-rainbow-farting unicorns for everyone?

88
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:31:32pm

We could just make the US into a Third World libertarian hellhole and then no one will want to come.

89
Decatur Deb  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:31:35pm

re: #86 Eclectic Cyborg

Does this also include the cost of building the Big Fucking Wall (tm) needed to keep them from getting back IN?

Half /

Do you think Trump would just be satisfied with a pyramid, if it is larger than Cheops’ and covered in gold leaf?

90
TedStriker  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:32:46pm

re: #43 Kragar

“I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel: You lousy cork-soakers. You have violated my farging rights. Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes… like yourselves. “

“You fargin sneaky bastage. I’m gonna take your dwork. I’m gonna nail it to the wall. I’m gonna crush your boils in a meat grinder. I’m gonna cut off your arms. I’m gonna shove ‘em up your icehole. Dirty son-a-ma-batches!”

91
Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:32:48pm

re: #64 Jenner7

Sorry if this was shared before…

[Embedded content]

Now that is some pure weapons grade plutonium wingnut insanity right there.

You can almost see the asshole in your mind’s eye…about 60 to 70 years old (writing on newspaper margins!)…pasty white, balding and still wears high waist slacks and tucked in button up shirts every day.

92
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:32:48pm

re: #89 Decatur Deb

Do you think Trump would just be satisfied with a pyramid, if it is larger than Cheops’ and covered in gold leaf?

[Trump] Yuuge phallus or GTFO. [/Trump]

93
Decatur Deb  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:33:43pm

re: #92 iossarian

[Trump] Yuuge phallus or GTFO. [/Trump]

Good idea. We could call it the Giant Prick’s Prick.

94
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:33:44pm

re: #85 calochortus

I was referring only to the change in birthright citizenship. Yes, we need a reasonable immigration policy, but I’m not holding my breath on getting one.

I would support a change in birthright citizenship only as part of a comprehensive package. But there are too many obstacles to it.

On one hand, there are enough economic interests to block it, on the other hand, there are enough rabid mouth-breathers who just want guard towers every 20 feet and cattle cars full of deportees.

95
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:33:45pm
96
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:33:57pm

OT but uh-oh:

philly.com

The Popebot’s in Philadelphia

97
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:34:07pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Good idea. We could call it the Giant Prick’s Prick.

Cock o’ the North

98
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:34:25pm

Remember when they were cheering the shutdown not long ago… And they were the first to complain when they couldn’t do anything they take for granted. It was Obama’s fault!!!1ty

So if they deport 11 million + immigrants, who will be doing all the things they don’t want to do?

And how will they identify them to begin with?

99
Decatur Deb  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:35:23pm

re: #97 iossarian

Cock o’ the North

Dildo Trump.

100
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:35:27pm

re: #98 GlutenFreeJesus

Remember when they were cheering the shutdown not long ago… And they were the first to complain when they couldn’t do anything they take for granted. It was Obama’s fault!!!1ty

So if they deport 11 million + immigrants, who will be doing all the things they don’t want to do?

And how will they identify them to begin with?

Oh easy. Anyone who speaks Spanish and isn’t white. There. Problem solved.//

101
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:35:30pm

re: #98 GlutenFreeJesus

And how will they identify them to begin with?

Start with anyone with a non-anglo surname.

Shapiro sounds pretty fishy to me TBH.

102
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:36:11pm

re: #101 iossarian

Start with anyone with a non-anglo surname.

Shapiro sounds pretty fishy to me TBH.

It doesn’t end in a consonant, get him!

103
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:36:18pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Oh easy. Anyone who speaks Spanish and isn’t white. There. Problem solved.//

Hey I’m all for getting rid of Marco Rubio if we can!

104
Decatur Deb  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:37:04pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

It doesn’t end in a constant, get him!

Or starts with an O’.

105
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:37:57pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Shit. I’m Chinese/Filippino/German/Swedish and speak Spanish. Good luck deporting me.

106
iossarian  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:38:05pm

But what does this do to Ted Cruz’s legal standing to run for President?

Inquiring minds etc.

107
jaunte  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:38:05pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

The Orale Factor.

108
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:38:30pm

re: #101 iossarian

He looks it too. The bottom-feeder that he is.

109
Decatur Deb  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:38:48pm

re: #107 jaunte

The Orale Factor.

Even O’rly wouldn’t be safe.

110
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:39:19pm

Now if we could somehow deport CCJ…

111
dholmes32  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:40:07pm

re: #15 Kragar

[Embedded content]

We did such an excellent job last time. /snark I want to see HIM invest his family in the meat grinder. (I have a nephew in the Air Force.)

112
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:40:43pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

By the way - on that NYT article slamming Amazon for being a terrible place to work. I mentioned yesterday that I talked to a friend who works at Amazon and he told me the NYT piece was wildly exaggerated; he enjoys working for Amazon and said it was challenging, but very rewarding.

Here’s a piece at Medium by another Amazon employee who’s basically saying the same things with much more detail: medium.com

I don’t trust the New York Times very much when they do these hit pieces. They go into some stories looking for a negative angle and will write it that way no matter what they find, in my opinion.

I still remember a NYT hit piece against John McCain from the 2008 presidential campaign. Even though I never considered voting for McCain-Palin at all, I thought the piece was blatantly biased against McCain for a bunch of useless BS reasons.

It looks like credibility in journalism is going extinct.

113
Sherlock Hound  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:42:51pm

re: #77 Teukka

Actually, Ben Shapiro’s comparison to food aid is a clever and nasty propaganda turn. By saying that deportation could be done for less than the SNAP program, he is implying that those using the program should be deported.

114
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:43:08pm

re: #15 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And what happens when a Middle Eastern oil country gets “pounded into the ground”?

Kuwait oil fields on fire, 1990. Gary Kieffer
115
jaunte  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:43:50pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

OOOOhhh, shiny!!!

116
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:44:41pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

This wouldn’t be a problem for a true wingnut. After all, it’s just ‘rolling coal’ on a somewhat larger scale.

117
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:45:51pm

re: #2 Eclectic Cyborg

I love the photo on this post.

But the content….fuck. They really want another trail of tears don’t they?

I think Captain Picard put it best:

“some of the darkest chapters in the history of my world involve the forced relocation of a small group of people, to satisfy the demands of a large one. I’d hoped that we’d learn from our mistakes, but… it seems that some of us haven’t.”

Rod Serling said it rather well, too:

The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.

The Monsters are due on Maple Street

118
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:47:08pm

re: #68 calochortus

??

old american tradition of deciding who’s “too” black to appear in a show featuring black performers playing to whites

if you were darker than a paper bag, you were too dark for the show

119
Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:48:35pm

re: #117 BeachDem

Rod Serling said it rather well, too:

The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.

The Monsters are due on Maple Street

Jesus, that was a brilliant episode.

My other personal favorite is “The Obsolete Man”.

120
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:49:13pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided? One parent? Both parents? 7th generation birthright? Children of naturalized citizens?

I’m probably safe on my mom’s side as they’ve been here forever, but my paternal grandfather was naturalized-which back in the day meant your wife and children were too, except that Dad was born here 4 years before his parents became citizens. Would he have been natural born, or would he have been considered naturalized? I’m sure there are even more complicated situations out there.

It’s Trump. You have to buy it. Of course.

121
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:49:28pm

re: #33 RealityBasedSteve

How are going to to locate, transport, feed and shelter the 11 million (or more) undocumented aliens currently in the country.

As Charles said downstairs “cattle cars”.

If it fits, it ships. If it doesn’t, we’ll make ‘em fit…
////////////////

122
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:49:59pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

I can totally picture Trump holding a campaign event with that as a background.

123
dholmes32  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:53:31pm

Charles, give yourself a hand, you’ve managed to make Chuck Johnson into an Internet lowlife. (He’s being compared to a guy who claims an article on the Daily Dot defamed him.) You know, kind of like how Scientology is the gold standard and go-to comparison for cults.

124
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:54:49pm

125
ObserverArt  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:55:57pm

Freaking Graham. When is he going to admit to himself and all the neocons the reason their is an ISIS is because we keep doing stupid shit in their part of the world? Stupid like invading Iraq under false pretense and killing a bunch of their citizens, then promising if we broke it we would fix it and falling far short.

Yeah Lindsey kill off a group called ISIS and then plan on another newly named group to form and go about doing the same terrorist stuff the last two groups have. It’s almost like the two entities (Graham/Neocons and ISIS/Radical Islamic Groups) need each other and the rest of the wold needs none of ‘em.

126
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:56:53pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided? One parent? Both parents? 7th generation birthright? Children of naturalized citizens?

I’m probably safe on my mom’s side as they’ve been here forever, but my paternal grandfather was naturalized-which back in the day meant your wife and children were too, except that Dad was born here 4 years before his parents became citizens. Would he have been natural born, or would he have been considered naturalized? I’m sure there are even more complicated situations out there.

My maternal grandfather may or may not have been naturalized, I’m not sure my mom would even know.
My paternal grandmother’s father most definitely was not…he was one of those really criminal Irish (a Fenian) and snuck over the Canadian border to get here.

127
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:58:10pm

re: #51 calochortus

If we don’t have birthright citizenship, how will “real” citizenship be decided?

i dont care what they say i aint goin back to lithuania!!

128
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:58:15pm

re: #126 Backwoods_Sleuth

My maternal grandfather may or may not have been naturalized, I’m not sure my mom would even know.
My paternal grandmother’s father most definitely was not…he was one of those really criminal Irish (a Fenian) and snuck over the Canadian border to get here.

Tsk, tsk. We’ll move you to the head of the line to investigate.
//

129
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:59:21pm

re: #127 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i dont care what they say i aint goin back to lithuania!!

Maybe you’ll like it.

130
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:59:23pm

re: #63 Kragar

Pure bloodlines and the ability to cite Bible passages from memory

only the approved Bible passages.

131
Khal Wimpo  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:59:35pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

By the way - on that NYT article slamming Amazon for being a terrible place to work. I mentioned yesterday that I talked to a friend who works at Amazon and he told me the NYT piece was wildly exaggerated; he enjoys working for Amazon and said it was challenging, but very rewarding.

Here’s a piece at Medium by another Amazon employee who’s basically saying the same things with much more detail: medium.com

I don’t trust the New York Times very much when they do these hit pieces. They go into some stories looking for a negative angle and will write it that way no matter what they find, in my opinion.

Gotta disagree with you on this one. Check out the comment on Reddit, from former Amazon workers.

Joyless fuckhole, it is. reddit.com

132
jaunte  Aug 17, 2015 • 2:59:36pm

I was born in Texas but I would like to remain a US citizen.

133
TedStriker  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:00:46pm

re: #127 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

I know this has already been posted, but it still works and never gets old:

134
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:00:53pm

re: #127 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i dont care what they say i aint goin back to lithuania!!

Hmm, I could choose England, Sweden or Finland. Finland might be nice, except that I’d have to learn Finnish, so that’s right out. Too many letters. So, Sweden or England?

135
calochortus  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:01:32pm

Sister in law coming over. BBL

136
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:02:17pm

re: #129 Nyet

Maybe you’ll like it.

i can only take so many cows at one time

137
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:02:29pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Good idea. We could call it the Giant Prick’s Prick.

And at the Iowa State Fair, it would be Giant Prick’s Prick deep fried on a stick.

138
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:03:14pm

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

And at the Iowa State Fair, it would be Giant Prick’s Prick deep fried on a fuckface von clownstick.

FTFY.

139
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:04:59pm

re: #39 Iwouldprefernotto

Also, My Jewish Grandparents came to this country (mostly legal at the time), but the point is that at the time people looked down at Jews. We were dirty, cheap, thieves, had disease, etc. You know the story. The same can be said for the Irish, italians, mexicans, (all of us). So Ben Shapiro go to hell.

/rant

got to go but thinks for all the venting opportunities.

I was thinking about this last night. I know one of my grandfathers was legal as I have his papers, but not sure about the other three. So do they send me back to Ukraine, Russia or Lithuania? I’m not even sure where each of the other three were from. It’s a puzzlement.

140
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:06:58pm

re: #139 BeachDem

I was thinking about this last night. I know one of my grandfathers was legal as I have his papers, but not sure about the other three. So do they send me back to Ukraine, Russia or Lithuania? I’m not even sure where each of the other three were from. It’s a puzzlement.

in actual fact, my grandfather who came from poland was never naturalized, and they never figured out he was an illegal alien until he died

141
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:08:24pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

A current Amazon staffer tears the piece apart claim by claim here.

Well worth the read.

As I said downstairs, one of my nieces works as a picker at the distribution center in Hebron, KY. She loves her job.

Mind you, she’s just a bit over 30 years old and in great shape.
And obviously still has lots of extra energy to burn.

142
Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:08:49pm

Gotta lay down for a bit. I overdid it last Saturday at the 2nd NC Regt memorial shoot at a private range on a huge chunk of wooded property. I did pretty well in the black powder competition and hit 6 out of 10 targets with my smoothbore musket (the best score was 8 and 3 people had to have a tie breaking shot)

We fired modern weapons in the late afternoon for two hours, which led a local officer to come and see f everything was fine since there had a been a phone call about the noise.

The officer was entirely cool (I was the first person to see and talk to him when he called to me from over a fence)…and I noted that had I been black…things may not have been quite so laid back.

But, I hurt like hell right now…so I am laying down. I’ll put up some pictures tomorrow.

143
Khal Wimpo  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:12:16pm

re: #139 BeachDem

I was thinking about this last night. I know one of my grandfathers was legal as I have his papers, but not sure about the other three. So do they send me back to Ukraine, Russia or Lithuania? I’m not even sure where each of the other three were from. It’s a puzzlement.

I don’t think it matters to Trump & the deportation crowd. They’d just load you aboard a containership (in one of those giant steel boxes, along with a couple dozen others), and then the crane lifts it off the ship and deposits it dockside in Albania. After that, it’s all up to you as to where you wanna go. Enjoy the walking tour of the Balkans!

I kinda expected this from Trump. It dismays me to see so many from the GOP jump on the “load ‘em all onto flatbeds and head south” plan. The anger that birthed the Tea Party has curdled into black, toxic bile.

Trump is just figuring out how to best aim it at a target of opportunity, frustrating Roger Ailes, who had hoped that the Two Minutes Hate every day could instead focus on Hilary and anyone else who interferes with the right of all oligarchs to turn the USA into a larger, open-air version of Amazon.

144
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:14:36pm

re: #88 calochortus

We could just make the US into a Third World libertarian hellhole and then no one will want to come.

I hear Somalia doesn’t have much of an immigration problem.

145
Bird in the Paw  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:15:00pm

re: #88 calochortus

We could just make the US into a Third World libertarian hellhole and then no one will want to come.

Remake Somalia?

146
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:18:46pm

re: #143 Khal Wimpo

Trump is just figuring out how to best aim it at a target of opportunity, frustrating Roger Ailes, who had hoped that the Two Minutes Hate every day could instead focus on Hilary and anyone else who interferes with the right of all oligarchs to turn the USA into a larger, open-air version of Amazon.

In real-estate terms, Trump is claim-jumping and spoiling Ailes’ clear title to the Fox News viewers.

147
Jenner7  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:19:39pm

The new Colonel Sanders sucks. Bring back Darrell Hammond.

148
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:20:13pm

re: #136 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i can only take so many cows at one time

ok, not cool of me to make fun of an entire perfectly nice country with a very ancient indo european tongue

149
KGxvi  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:20:28pm

re: #62 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

We already confer birthright citizenship to the children of foreign nationals living in the US legally. That’s what the US v Wong Kim Ark case was about in 1898.

The first sentence of the Syllabus says

A child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution

150
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:23:03pm

re: #136 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i can only take so many cows at one time

151
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:25:29pm

re: #149 KGxvi

We already confer birthright citizenship to the children of foreign nationals living in the US legally. That’s what the US v Wong Kim Ark case was about in 1898.

The first sentence of the Syllabus says

Damned 1898 judicial activists.//

152
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:25:53pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

A current Amazon staffer tears the piece apart claim by claim here.

Well worth the read.

That’s the same article I linked to.

153
Kid A  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:25:54pm

I totally forgot that I shot this on Saturday night.

154
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:28:14pm

re: #131 Khal Wimpo

Gotta disagree with you on this one. Check out the comment on Reddit, from former Amazon workers.

Joyless fuckhole, it is. reddit.com

Well, you’re not really disagreeing with me, since I have no personal experience here. But I find the piece by an employee who put his name on the record a whole lot more credible than anonymous commenters at Reddit.

155
Mattand  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:28:55pm

Jesus, I thought the posters on your average philly.com article were racist morons.

The intelligentsia over at nj.com are all “Challenge accepted” on an article about Trump’s immigration fever dream.

Pointing out that the ‘law’ that grants citizenship to anyone born here is the 14th Amendment has been an exercise in frustration, to put it mildly.

I’m in a debate right now with a guy who, I swear to Christ, is demanding that this LAW! be overturned because NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES!!!!11ty!!!

I really hope this guy is a Poe.

156
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:29:46pm

MOREHEAD — Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis can continue withholding marriage licenses to local couples for now, a federal judge ruled Monday.

In an order handed down late in the day, U.S. District Judge David Bunning said he would not delay his previous order telling Davis to resume issuing marriage licenses, which she has refused to do since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage on June 26. But in the next sentence, he delayed the new order while the clerk appeals.

The move effectively gives Davis the reprieve she sought.

Bunning essentially put the case on hold for a week or more until the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals can decide whether to intervene. He did so “in recognition of the constitutional issues involved and realizing that emotions are running high on both sides of the debate.”

At the Rowan County courthouse Monday, Davis referred questions to her attorneys at Liberty Counsel, a religious advocacy group.

“We’re very pleased with the results at this stage,” said Mat Staver, chairman of Liberty Counsel. “We will file a motion with the 6th Circuit to extend the stay while we appeal.”

good freaking grief. What a bunch of shit nonsense.

157
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:30:44pm

re: #155 Mattand

Jesus, I thought the posters on your average philly.com article were racist morons.

The intelligentsia over at nj.com are all “Challenge accepted” on an article about Trump’s immigration fever dream.

Pointing out that the ‘law’ that grants citizenship to anyone born here is the 14th Amendment has been an exercise in frustration, to put it mildly.

I’m in a debate right now with a guy who, I swear to Christ, is demanding that this LAW! be overturned because NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES!!!!11ty!!!

I really hope this guy is a Poe.

You’d think in a region with so many who are fond of bringing up their own immigrant ties that they’d be more empathetic. Alas I guess not everyone sees today’s immigrants and sees their own forefathers like I do.

158
KGxvi  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:31:17pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

the background of the case is actually interesting… Wong was born in San Francisco to Chinese immigrants. He traveled to China a few times, and then the last time he tried to return home, he was denied entry under the Chinese Exclusion Act (a law that forbid the immigration of Chinese people to the US). The argument was that even though he was born in the United States, his parents were Chinese subjects and therefore he wasn’t a US citizen. The Supreme Court said that he was under the 14th Amendment. So, yeah, everything the nativists have been arguing the last few years was decided almost 120 years ago.

159
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:31:28pm

re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good freaking grief. What a bunch of shit nonsense.

This shit needs to end now.

160
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:32:14pm

re: #159 HappyWarrior

This shit needs to end now.

I’m trying to figure out Judge Bunning’s “logic”, but I suspect I would die of alcohol poisoning first…

161
Romantic Heretic  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:32:19pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

You’d think he’d be sympathetic to immigrants but nope Ben just has to be a dick because that’s what Ben does.

Considering his religion you’d think he’d be especially sensitive to the idea of rounding people up. But noooooooo.

162
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:32:35pm

re: #158 KGxvi

the background of the case is actually interesting… Wong was born in San Francisco to Chinese immigrants. He traveled to China a few times, and then the last time he tried to return home, he was denied entry under the Chinese Exclusion Act (a law that forbid the immigration of Chinese people to the US). The argument was that even though he was born in the United States, his parents were Chinese subjects and therefore he wasn’t a US citizen. The Supreme Court said that he was under the 14th Amendment. So, yeah, everything the nativists have been arguing the last few years was decided almost 120 years ago.

It’s actually quite amazing since that tells you how reactionary guys like Trump and those cheering this really are on immigrants. They want to reverse policies that were written and established as precedent when our great great grandparents were alive.

163
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:33:08pm

re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good freaking grief. What a bunch of shit nonsense.

So, Bunning the son IS more like Bunning the father than we thought last week. Sigh.

164
Mattand  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:33:15pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

By the way - on that NYT article slamming Amazon for being a terrible place to work. I mentioned yesterday that I talked to a friend who works at Amazon and he told me the NYT piece was wildly exaggerated; he enjoys working for Amazon and said it was challenging, but very rewarding.

Here’s a piece at Medium by another Amazon employee who’s basically saying the same things with much more detail: medium.com

I don’t trust the New York Times very much when they do these hit pieces. They go into some stories looking for a negative angle and will write it that way no matter what they find, in my opinion.

I used to work at a 400 person publisher where a woman was basically all but threatened with dismissal, because she had the temerity to have breast cancer while employed there.

I’m sorry; but I’m having a hard time believing that shit doesn’t go on at Amazon. Maybe not to the degree as stated in the article, but if it happened in a relatively small workplace like mine, it’s happening there.

165
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:34:07pm

re: #161 Romantic Heretic

Considering his religion you’d think he’d be especially sensitive to the idea of rounding people up. But noooooooo.

Yeah I just don’t get it. See also how he engages in scapegoating groups too. I won’t as a non-Jew tell Ben how he should be but this much I do know, as an American descended from people who were fleeing oppressive empires, it definitely makes me more empathetic to immigrants who are fleeing similar type situations.

166
Romantic Heretic  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:34:39pm

re: #15 Kragar

“If I’m President of the United States, we’re going back to #Iraq & we are going to pound these guys in the ground.”

Oh? Are you going to go personally?

Didn’t think so.

War is so much easier when other people do the bleeding and dying.

167
goddamnedfrank  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:34:47pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

Well, you’re not really disagreeing with me, since I have no personal experience here. But I find the piece by an employee who put his name on the record a whole lot more credible than anonymous commenters at Reddit.

A lot of it also feels like generic corporate toxic bureaucracy, and not really specific to Amazon in any discernible way.

168
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:35:06pm

re: #163 BeachDem

So, Bunning the son IS more like Bunning the father than we thought last week. Sigh.

Younger Bunning would have done better to follow his father’s first career.

169
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:35:21pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Yeah I just don’t get it. See also how he engages in scapegoating groups too. I won’t as a non-Jew tell Ben how he should be but this much I do know, as an American descended from people who were fleeing oppressive empires, it definitely makes me more empathetic to immigrants who are fleeing similar type situations.

it should be part of his jewish education:

“we should never forget we were slaves in egypt”

170
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:35:38pm

re: #163 BeachDem

So, Bunning the son IS more like Bunning the father than we thought last week. Sigh.

In Monday’s order, Bunning said Davis is unlikely to succeed in her appeal or suffer “irreparable harm” if she is forced to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple, and he said the couples suing her seem likely to prevail in the end. Accordingly, Bunning denied the clerk’s request for a stay — but he temporarily stayed that order, without much further explanation.

This is insane.

171
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:37:12pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

it should be part of his jewish education:

“we should never forget we were slaves in egypt”

Ha, I was actually thinking that Ben probably has some Holocaust survivors in his family and others that had to deal with the pogroms in Russia. I did my undergraduate thesis on the latter. Man terrible stuff and it did influence the Nazis later.

172
Charles Johnson  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:38:10pm

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

A lot of it also feels like generic corporate toxic bureaucracy, and not really specific to Amazon in any discernible way.

Yup, that’s my impression as well.

173
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:38:22pm

Ms. Davis thinks she can pick and chooses what laws she gets to take part of. That’s now how this work. If she wants to attend a church that believes SSM is wrong, that is her right but if her belief gets in the way of the handing out of licenses in SSM which the Supreme Court has ruled is legal, then she should be held in contempt.

174
Mattand  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:40:01pm

re: #163 BeachDem

So, Bunning the son IS more like Bunning the father than we thought last week. Sigh.

Bunning Sr. is one of the Phillies all time greatest pitchers.

It’s really depressing to know that the legends on your favorite teams go on to be such shit heels.

175
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:40:16pm

re: #57 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

By a committee comprised of Tony Perkins, Rick Santorum, Erick son of Erick and Steve King.

/

Ben Shapiro will decide Who Is A Real Jew

176
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:40:36pm

The dick in me almost wants some clerk to deny a Christian heterosexual couple an application and claim that he or she finds Christianity to be a false religion and will not do anything to help Christians but I don’t believe in fucking people over to make a shitty point.

177
makeitstop  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:40:45pm

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

And at the Iowa State Fair, it would be Giant Prick’s Prick deep fried on a stick.

I got five bucks that says Trump will eat his corn dog with a knife and fork.

178
Lidane  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:40:56pm

re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth

She needs to either do her fucking job or quit and let someone else do it.

179
Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:41:30pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

Maybe things have improved, and I hope they have. This report from an Allentown Pa newspaper in 2011 made national news and was reprinted in The Atlantic and elsewhere.

Workers said they were forced to endure brutal heat inside the sprawling warehouse and were pushed to work at a pace many could not sustain. Employees were frequently reprimanded regarding their productivity and threatened with termination, workers said. The consequences of not meeting work expectations were regularly on display, as employees lost their jobs and got escorted out of the warehouse. Such sights encouraged some workers to conceal pain and push through injury lest they get fired as well, workers said.

During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn’t quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time.

An emergency room doctor in June called federal regulators to report an “unsafe environment” after he treated several Amazon warehouse workers for heat-related problems. The doctor’s report was echoed by warehouse workers who also complained to regulators, including a security guard who reported seeing pregnant employees suffering in the heat.

mcall.com

People’s names did go onto that story.

180
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:41:33pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

it should be part of his jewish education:

“we should never forget we were slaves in egypt”

A bit of mythology not really supported by credible sources…

181
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:42:10pm

re: #174 Mattand

Bunning Sr. is one of the Phillies all time greatest pitchers.

It’s really depressing to know that the legends on your favorite teams go on to be such shit heels.

A Hall of Famer no less. One guy on the Orioles, Luke Scott, not a legend or even a star really disappointed me when he showed himself to be a birther. And I don’t even know if it was deep rooted in xenophobia since one of his best friends on the team was a Dominican guy who only spoke Spanish but Luke Scott really disappointed me with that. Like wise Lynn Swann turning out to be a wingnut.

182
DodgerFan1988  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:44:49pm

Remember when the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin expelled the entire Asian immigrant polulation from Uganda and the damage it did to the Ugandan economy? Republicans are in some pretty bad company.

183
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:45:02pm

re: #176 HappyWarrior

The dick in me almost wants some clerk to deny a Christian heterosexual couple an application and claim that he or she finds Christianity to be a false religion and will not do anything to help Christians but I don’t believe in fucking people over to make a shitty point.

Kim Davis is denying ALL marriage licenses right now.

184
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:45:36pm

re: #183 Backwoods_Sleuth

Kim Davis is denying ALL marriage licenses right now.

She’s a shitty person. What a pathetic little temper tantrum this is.

185
Mattand  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:45:37pm

re: #179 Aunty Entity Dragon

During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn’t quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the NYT on this.

Rather than, you know, fucking install air conditioning, Amazon essentially contracted paramedics to take the rabble away when they dropped from heat exhaustion.

But, no, a company like that would never, ever harrass people for getting ill.

186
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:45:56pm

re: #177 makeitstop

I got five bucks that says Trump will eat his corn dog with a knife and fork.

porkchop on a stick:

187
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:46:06pm

re: #182 DodgerFan1988

Remember when the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin expelled the entire Asian immigrant polulation from Uganda and the damage it did to the Ugandan economy? Republicans are in some pretty bad company.

But he was a blah Muslim.// But yeah they’re not in good company with this shit.

188
goddamnedfrank  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:47:14pm
“Every time I worry I’m getting too cynical, I see I’m not even keeping pace.”
-Sussman, Show Me a Hero.
189
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:48:29pm

re: #174 Mattand

Bunning Sr. is one of the Phillies all time greatest pitchers.

It’s really depressing to know that the legends on your favorite teams go on to be such shit heels.

I know—I try to think of him in terms of the 1964 heartbreaking end-of-season Phillies collapse, and how admirable Bunning was then. But he’s done so many bone-headed, ugly things in his political career, it’s hard to remember back when he was anything but a total asshole.

190
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:49:14pm

re: #189 BeachDem

I know—I try to think of him in terms of the 1964 heartbreaking end-of-season Phillies collapse, and how admirable Bunning was then. But he’s done so many bone-headed, ugly things in his political career, it’s hard to remember back when he was anything but a total asshole.

Must be something genetic in the Bunning genes.

191
KGxvi  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:49:25pm

re: #185 Mattand

Rather than, you know, fucking install air conditioning, they essentially contracted paramedics to take the rabble away when they dropped from heat exhaustion.

UNDUE BURDEN ON JERB KREEHTORS!1! FREE MARKETZ1!1!! FREEDUMB OF CONTRACT!

192
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:51:00pm

re: #189 BeachDem

I know—I try to think of him in terms of the 1964 heartbreaking end-of-season Phillies collapse, and how admirable Bunning was then. But he’s done so many bone-headed, ugly things in his political career, it’s hard to remember back when he was anything but a total asshole.

What’s interesting is that Bunning as a player had a big role in pushing for Marvin Miller to be head of the players union. But as a Congressman and Senator, Bunning’s record was very anti-union. Union for me but not for thee I guess. I still remember in 2004 implying that his opponent was some kind of terrorist because he had olive skin. The guy was a doctor of Italian-American descent. I am sure BWS remembers more since this is her state we’re talking.

193
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:52:26pm

It’s worth noting that the birthright citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was put in there to explicitly overrule the Dred Scott decision.

Critics of this clause of the 14th amendment should be pressed hard on the question of what alternative do we really have, especially if we want the same language we have today to also have had the effect of making citizens out of the freed slaves after the civil war.

194
Lidane  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:53:53pm

More proof that Idiocracy was a documentary:

195
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:55:41pm

re: #194 Lidane

More proof that Idiocracy was a documentary:

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

And as I said, the people whose ancestors were given shit by the Know-Nothings are echoing the bs today. Someone named Perino shouldn’t be standing up for discrimination against immigrants.

196
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:57:30pm

re: #193 EPR-radar

It’s worth noting that the birthright citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was put in there to explicitly overrule the Dred Scott decision.

Critics of this clause of the 14th amendment should be pressed hard on the question of what alternative do we really have, especially if we want the same language we have today to also have had the effect of making citizens out of the freed slaves after the civil war.

I always thought there was an arrogance to conservative judicial philosophy. The thought that you can use a 19th century mindset/approach and apply them to 21st century problems and reality. Sure perhaps Jefferson did intend for a smaller federal government but he also didn’t account for that the country is a lot different today than when he died in 1826 too.

197
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:57:38pm

re: #185 Mattand

Yeah, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the NYT on this.

Rather than, you know, fucking install air conditioning, they essentially contracted paramedics to take the rabble away when they dropped from heat exhaustion.

But, no, a company like that would never, ever harrass people for getting ill.

Isn’t that at the ironically named ‘Fulfillment Centers’?

198
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:59:06pm

Here are the first world nations where birthright citizenship is the law:
Canada
United States

Here are the first world nations where it isn’t:
Andorra, Australia, Austria,
Austria, Belgium, Bermuda,
Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark
Faroe Islands, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece,
Holy See, Hong Kong, Iceland,
Ireland, Israel, Italy,
Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg,
Malta, Monaco, Netherlands,
New Zealand, Norway, Portugal,
San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia,
Slovenia, South Korea, Spain,
Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan,
United Kingdom

Australia revoked birthright citizenship in 2007, New Zealand revoked it in 2005. This isn’t a novel idea, it’s just novel here because it’s been settled law for so long.

199
makeitstop  Aug 17, 2015 • 3:59:08pm

re: #189 BeachDem

I know—I try to think of him in terms of the 1964 heartbreaking end-of-season Phillies collapse, and how admirable Bunning was then. But he’s done so many bone-headed, ugly things in his political career, it’s hard to remember back when he was anything but a total asshole.

I still remember listening to his perfect game on the radio with my dad.

I was so disappointed when he turned out to be a whack job.

200
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:00:51pm

re: #198 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Here are the first world nations where birthright citizenship is the law:
Canada
United States

Here are the first world nations where it isn’t:
Andorra, Australia, Austria,
Austria, Belgium, Bermuda,
Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark
Faroe Islands, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece,
Holy See, Hong Kong, Iceland,
Ireland, Israel, Italy,
Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg,
Malta, Monaco, Netherlands,
New Zealand, Norway, Portugal,
San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia,
Slovenia, South Korea, Spain,
Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan,
United Kingdom

Australia revoked birthright citizenship in 2007, New Zealand revoked it in 2005. This isn’t a novel idea, it’s just novel here because it’s been settled law for so long.

I think that’s my precise problem with getting rid of it. This has worked so long and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two of the countries that do have it (us and Canada) do a great job at assimilating our immigrants and their children where some other countries do not.

201
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:03:32pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I always thought there was an arrogance to conservative judicial philosophy. The thought that you can use a 19th century mindset/approach and apply them to 21st century problems and reality. Sure perhaps Jefferson did intend for a smaller federal government but he also didn’t account for that the country is a lot different today than when he died in 1826 too.

More like late 18th, and at that, nobody having previously set up a government quite like that, they were taking kind of a flier.

But then, remember - the same folks want to substitute a 4000 year old creation myth for actual scientific findings, so wanting to run a modern industrial nation of 340,000,000 people EXACTLY according to rules set up by rich white landowners in the late 18th Century to govern 4 Million souls in an agrarian former colony is par for the course.

202
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:04:29pm

I find birthright citizenship weird, but whatever tickles one’s fancy.

203
Targetpractice  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:05:21pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

I think that’s my precise problem with getting rid of it. This has worked so long and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two of the countries that do have it (us and Canada) do a great job at assimilating our immigrants and their children where some other countries do not.

I was about to say that a lot of the countries on that list are currently dealing with horrendously bad immigration problems where they have second and even third generation immigrants who are being born effectively stateless or considered citizens of the state their parents/grandparents immigrated from because the government either drags their feet with naturalization or refuses to grant them citizenship. So you have young men who are essentially French in all but citizenship, who are being treated like shit because the government absolutely refuses to grant them citizenship if for no other reason than bullshit pride.

204
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:05:52pm

re: #201 Blind Frog Belly White

More like late 18th, and at that, nobody having previously set up a government quite like that, they were taking kind of a flier.

But then, remember - the same folks want to substitute a 4000 year old creation myth for actual scientific findings, so wanting to run a modern industrial nation of 340,000,000 people EXACTLY according to rules set up by rich white landowners in the late 18th Century to govern 4 Million souls in an agrarian former colony is par for the course.

Right late 18th, thanks. We’re definitely in agreement. I think it’s yet another example of why cons are inflexible. Obviously, we want to use the Constitution as a set of governing principles but just that, we don’t need to have our society like it was back then and frankly I don’t think that’s what the Founders wanted either.

205
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:06:22pm

re: #203 Targetpractice

I was about to say that a lot of the countries on that list are currently dealing with horrendously bad immigration problems where they have second and even third generation immigrants who are being born effectively stateless or considered citizens of the state their parents/grandparents immigrated from because the government either drags their feet with naturalization or refuses to grant them citizenship. So you have young men who are essentially French in all but citizenship, who are being treated like shit because the government absolutely refuses to grant them citizenship if for no other reason than bullshit pride.

Yes, I was thinking of France in particular there.

206
EPR-radar  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:07:10pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I always thought there was an arrogance to conservative judicial philosophy. The thought that you can use a 19th century mindset/approach and apply them to 21st century problems and reality. Sure perhaps Jefferson did intend for a smaller federal government but he also didn’t account for that the country is a lot different today than when he died in 1826 too.

The entire idea of originalism as a way (especially if held to be the only way) of dealing with constitutional interpretation is nonsense. The only purpose it has is to provide a convenient way to inject prejudices from the past into present-day jurisprudence.

207
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:07:44pm

re: #206 EPR-radar

The entire idea of originalism as a way (especially if held to be the only way) of dealing with constitutional interpretation is nonsense. The only purpose it has is to provide a convenient way to inject prejudices from the past into present-day jurisprudence.

Right.

208
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:13:09pm

re: #203 Targetpractice

I was about to say that a lot of the countries on that list are currently dealing with horrendously bad immigration problems where they have second and even third generation immigrants who are being born effectively stateless or considered citizens of the state their parents/grandparents immigrated from because the government either drags their feet with naturalization or refuses to grant them citizenship. So you have young men who are essentially French in all but citizenship, who are being treated like shit because the government absolutely refuses to grant them citizenship if for no other reason than bullshit pride.

This is a very good point. Imagine the alienation of, for example, a young person born in France whose GRANDparents came from Algeria. You’ve lived your entire life in France. You might only speak French. It’s the only country you really know.

But you’re not REALLY French.

209
aagcobb  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:13:22pm

re: #13 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Shapiro can’t afford access to the level of expertise it would take to even estimate the cost of mass deportation. The figure he pulled out of his ass is another example of conservatives’ vast trove of “Everybody knows…”

We’ll make Mexico pay for it!

210
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:14:56pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

I think that’s my precise problem with getting rid of it. This has worked so long and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two of the countries that do have it (us and Canada) do a great job at assimilating our immigrants and their children where some other countries do not.

It’s so odd that the country that has always been so proud of being the “melting pot” is now all of a sudden afraid of “teh other”.

211
Kragar  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:16:37pm
212
darthstar  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:17:18pm
213
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:17:21pm

re: #209 aagcobb

We’ll make Mexico pay for it!

Trump’s popularity says something really ugly about the people he’s popular with. These folks would want us to have an Empire, if they could, taking OUR oil and OUR metals and such from countries who don’t really deserve them, because we’re America and we’re exceptional.

Except that that attitude is so completely UNexceptional. It’s the attitude of every colonizing, empire-building nation since prehistoric times. If America is exceptional, shouldn’t it be reflected in not being like every other goddam empire in history?

214
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:17:25pm

re: #208 Blind Frog Belly White

This is a very good point. Imagine the alienation of, for example, a young person born in France whose GRANDparents came from Algeria. You’ve lived your entire life in France. You might only speak French. It’s the only country you really know.

But you’re not REALLY French.

Not really how it works.

Birth in France[edit]
Children born in France (including overseas territories) to at least one parent who is also born in France automatically acquire French citizenship at birth (double jus soli).
A child born in France to foreign parents may acquire French citizenship:[3]
at birth, if stateless.
at 18, if resident in France with at least 5 years’ residence since age 11.
between 16 and 18 upon request by the child and if resident in France with at least 5 years’ residence since age 11.
between 13 and 16 upon request by the child’s parents and if resident in France continuously since age 8.
if born in France of parents born before independence in a colony/territory in the past under French sovereignty.
at birth, if born in France before January 1, 1994.
at age 18, if born in France on or after January 1, 1994.
A child who was born abroad and who has only one French parent can repudiate his French nationality during the six months prior to his or her reaching the age of majority, or in the year which follows it (article 19-4 of the Civil Code).

215
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:19:12pm

re: #206 EPR-radar

Originalism is a lame attempt at judicial cosplay. The originalists profess to so completely understand the authors of the Constitution that they’re able to intuit their actual intent and apply it to novel situations. Considering how easy it is to misunderstand others face-to-face in simpler situations the it strikes me that they’re assuming powers far beyond those of mortal men. Of course, it helps that the Founders always seem to be in agreement with the originalists’ prejudices, preferences, and political leanings. It’s no accident that originalists and religious fundamentalists wound up on the same side of the aisle.

216
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:19:18pm

re: #214 Nyet

Not really how it works.

Christ that’s complicated. That, if nothing else, is an argument for Birthright Citizenship.
//

217
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:20:39pm

re: #216 Blind Frog Belly White

Christ that’s complicated. That, if nothing else, is an argument for Birthright Citizenship.
//

Not really complicated. If you’re 3rd gen., you’re automatically a citizen. Seems like a sensible law on the whole.

218
Kid A  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:21:27pm

re: #209 aagcobb

We’ll make Mexico pay for it!

And they will like it!!!

219
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:22:28pm

Michele Bachmann was going to claim Swiss citizenship because of Marcus.

npr.org

Here’s an update on a member of Congress who became a multinational person. As we reported yesterday, former Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann is Swiss. She became a dual citizen of Switzerland and the U.S. through her husband, Marcus Bachmann, whose parents are Swiss and who recently claimed his Swiss citizenship.

Initially, Congresswoman Bachmann of Minnesota joked she’d have a lot of competition if she ran for office in Switzerland, which she’s eligible to do now. But yesterday she wasn’t joking. In a statement she now says she is asking for her dual citizenship to be withdrawn, saying she is 100 percent committed to America.

220
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:22:29pm

re: #217 Nyet

Not really complicated. If you’re 3rd gen., you’re automatically a citizen. Seems like a sensible law on the whole.

Depends a bit on how you define your nation.

221
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:24:39pm

re: #220 Blind Frog Belly White

Depends a bit on how you define your nation.

Depends on your history too. France hasn’t been a nation of frontiers since circa 900.

222
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:25:10pm


Scott Walker: The US should ‘absolutely’ stop granting birthright citizenship

declares “i want somma this race baiting dynamite for my own campaign!”

Republican Party To ReBrand As ‘National Capitalist American Employee’s Party’

223
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:29:16pm
224
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:29:22pm

re: #222 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸


Scott Walker: The US should ‘absolutely’ stop granting birthright citizenship

declares “i want somma this race baiting dynamite for my own campaign!”

Republican Party To ReBrand As ‘National Capitalist American Employee’s Party’

Or, in Wonkette world,

“I haven’t looked at all the details of his,” Walker says, “but the things I’ve heard are very similar to the things I’ve mentioned.”…

We’d get all journalism-y with our bad selves and compare Trump’s policy paper to Walker’s policy paper, except Walker doesn’t have one. Maybe he could just copy Trump’s and put his name on it. He just needs to remember to leave out some of the classy adjectives, so it looks like he did his own homework.

wonkette.com

225
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:33:24pm

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

Le Chat looks pretty uncomfortable.

226
whitebeach  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:33:46pm

There’s another potential problem with the mass-deportation nonsense that I don’t know if anyone’s touched on. As we all know, the original (as opposed to our latter-day) Nazis had a problem with decent gentile citizens who courageously hid and protected Jews slated for the cattle cars. I can’t help but believe that a much larger proportion of American citizens would be willing to shelter people they know to be good hardworking folk from those who would suddenly define them as worthless criminals. I know I wouldn’t have to think too long about it, and I believe millions of others would feel the same way. So add that to the cost of this insanity.

227
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:34:36pm

So I went and did it. I went on FB and posted:

How will Trump and the rest of them identify illegal aliens?

I expect to have a few less “friends” on there pretty soon.

228
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:36:09pm

re: #225 Nyet

Le Chat looks pretty uncomfortable.

It looks concerned and maybe a little bit askeert…

229
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:37:52pm

re: #226 whitebeach

There’s another potential problem with the mass-deportation nonsense that I don’t know if anyone’s touched on. As we all know, the original (as opposed to our latter-day) Nazis had a problem with decent gentile citizens who courageously hid and protected Jews slated for the cattle cars. I can’t help but believe that a much larger proportion of American citizens would be willing to shelter people they know to be good hardworking folk from those who would suddenly define them as worthless criminals. I know I wouldn’t have to think too long about it, and I believe millions of others would feel the same way. So add that to the cost of this insanity.

as in Fugitive Slave Law, q.v.

230
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:38:08pm

re: #227 GlutenFreeJesus

Agent Mulder is on the case as we speak.

231
Belafon  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:40:50pm

re: #164 Mattand

I used to work at a 400 person publisher where a woman was basically all but threatened with dismissal, because she had the temerity to have breast cancer while employed there.

I’m sorry; but I’m having a hard time believing that shit doesn’t go on at Amazon. Maybe not to the degree as stated in the article, but if it happened in a relatively small workplace like mine, it’s happening there.

Does it happen at Amazon any more than any other company? I’ve worked for small companies that required me to do everything that the NYT suggests Amazon did, and then we took a pay cut to save the company.

232
ObserverArt  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:40:58pm

re: #228 Backwoods_Sleuth

It looks concerned and maybe a little bit askeert…

Looks to me like kat is saying “sheesh, the things I have to do for this kid!”

233
lawhawk  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:43:09pm

The same candidate who thinks nothing of stealing Iraqi oil (because it’s now ISIL caliphate oil or some such BS that ignores that Iraq still considers the territory to be its own; Turkey considers their territory theirs; Syria, the same) in order to pay for VA benefits instead of reducing military spending on hanger queens thinks nothing of the US Constitution and the 14th Amendment.

Reckless disregard for federal law and the Constitution.

Blatant disregard for international law.

Total lack of character and judgment.

But he’s yooge with the right wing vote.

Which means he’s going places (and extending his lead on the rest of the already extreme GOP right wingers).

234
Belafon  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:44:00pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

it should be part of his jewish education:

“we should never forget we were slaves in egypt”

Especially since remembering that they were immigrants was a law from God.

235
Timothy Watson  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:44:05pm

re: #230 Nyet

Agent Mulder is on the case as we speak.

Are alien-human hybrid clones, created in the United States, eligible for birthright citizenship?

236
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:45:23pm

but of course he is…

::headdesk::

237
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:45:38pm

Ever thought of a koala monster movie?

facebook.com

238
BeachDem  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:46:08pm

I think I’ve found the ideal Trump running mate—that loony teabagger guy from Michigan who made up the gay sex scandal to cover his affair. First, he posted his lengthy, incoherent facebook defense, with all kinds of bible quotes, and well-written sentences like this one, about his fellow sinners:

Just having heard their stories has been some of the most humbling experiences of my life; with several have come forward to share their pain for participating in/and addicted to pornography and what that has wrought in themselves and their families.

(Yikes, the guy is illiterate—but I digress).

Then, when fakebook commenters said things like:

Just ADMIT that you screwed up. Admit you had the affair, you went to great lengths to cover it up, and admit that you running and pretending to govern as a holier-than-thou “Christian” is just a sham, a huge misrepresentation. Admit and resign. Do them all a favor.

Courser’s humble response was:

None of it is true and you know it. I’m the biggest Christian this community has ever seen. I am gods messenger.(sic, sic and sick)

wonkette.com

239
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:46:33pm

re: #237 Nyet

Ever thought of a koala monster movie?

facebook.com

pepsi koala or koaka koala?

240
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:46:58pm

re: #235 Timothy Watson

Are alien-human hybrid clones, created in the United States, eligible for birthright citizenship?

If ManBearPig can be considering another shot at running for president then I’d say the clones are in.

241
darthstar  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:47:39pm

It ain’t easy being the only woman on the GOP ticket.

242
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:48:22pm

re: #237 Nyet

Ever thought of a koala monster movie?

facebook.com

Just so it isn’t about (shudder) Drop Bears.

243
Snarknado!  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:49:02pm

re: #185 Mattand

Yeah, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the NYT on this.

Rather than, you know, fucking install air conditioning, Amazon essentially contracted paramedics to take the rabble away when they dropped from heat exhaustion.

But, no, a company like that would never, ever harrass people for getting ill.

In a report on Amazon and the NYT piece, the Atlantic article was also discussed. Apparently Amazon did install air conditioning after this. It shouldn’t have taken an expose to get them to do it.

Also, one of the reporters who worked on the NYT article was interviewed on a program I just heard, and she sounded quite different from the tone of the article. (She mainly talked about people with “life events” like a death in the family or a difficult pregnancy not being given enough time to recover.) I wonder what the piece looked like before it got to the editors.

244
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:50:36pm

re: #243 Snarknado!

I wonder if the NYT has editors anymore.

245
Nyet  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:51:51pm

re: #241 darthstar

She showed that she’s not crazy and not inhuman enough for the GOP. Self-filter.

246
No Country For Old Haters  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:54:07pm

re: #236 Backwoods_Sleuth

but of course he is…

[Embedded content]

::headdesk::

247
Belafon  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:54:57pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

Sure perhaps Jefferson did intend for a smaller federal government but he also didn’t account for that the country is a lot different today than when he died in 1826 too.

I’m reading Battle Cry of Freedom. The beginning of the book describes the US economy. It mentions that Jefferson thought each man would produce his own necessities, and then sell anything he created afterwards. This idea completely fell apart when the US started creating machines and automating production, meaning people didn’t have to be able to create an entire product, just perform a step, thereby selling their time to their employer. Jefferson’s idea of men not being dependent on another person for their existence fell apart at the beginning of the country.

In short, Jefferson’s views on economy do not map to any sort of reality today, and his idea of a small government that would have been available had his economy worked don’t hold as well. It’s also pretty obvious that his views relied on not considering slaves to be people.

248
No Country For Old Haters  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:56:15pm

re: #241 darthstar

It ain’t easy being the only woman on the GOP ticket.

[Embedded content]

249
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:56:24pm

re: #241 darthstar
GOP 2020:
“Do you now, or have you ever, liked baklava? I would remind you that you are under oath!”

250
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:58:57pm

re: #241 darthstar

It ain’t easy being the only woman on the GOP ticket.

[Embedded content]

So did the last successful Republican presidential candidate. Hmmm. Man Bachmann is pathetic.

251
HappyWarrior  Aug 17, 2015 • 4:59:26pm

re: #249 Higgs Boson’s Mate

GOP 2020:
“Do you now, or have you ever, liked baklava? I would remind you that you are under oath!”

“Have you now or have you ever been a friend of hummus?”

252
lawhawk  Aug 17, 2015 • 5:02:27pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

“Have you now or have you ever been a friend of hummus?”

Who ordered the schwarma with schug?

You want answers?
I think I’m entitled to.
You want to know who ordered the schwarma?
*I want the truth!*

You can’t handle who ordered the schwarma.

253
A Cranky One  Aug 17, 2015 • 5:41:56pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I always thought there was an arrogance to conservative judicial philosophy. The thought that you can use a 19th century mindset/approach and apply them to 21st century problems and reality. Sure perhaps Jefferson did intend for a smaller federal government but he also didn’t account for that the country is a lot different today than when he died in 1826 too.

Communications technology alone creates a paradigm shift in how government should operate. When distributing messages across the country was a slow difficult process, small, limited centralized government with more local control made sense.
With essentially instantaneous communications the span of control of the federal government can easily be extended to the whole country. I suspect many of the founding fathers would have had different opinions of how government should operate if presented with most of today’s technologies.

254
Eric The Fruit Bat  Aug 17, 2015 • 5:46:33pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Isn’t her refusal subject to being charged with a misdemeanor?

255
taserian  Aug 18, 2015 • 12:04:57pm

re: #78 makeitstop

There’s a movie about it:
A Day without a Mexican

No idea if it’s good or not, though.

256
taserian  Aug 18, 2015 • 1:08:13pm

re: #176 HappyWarrior

Already done…

crooksandliars.com


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