Video: Bernie Sanders at Liberty University - Did Students Really Cheer for Him?

A: nope
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I give Bernie Sanders some credit for not pulling his punches in this speech to the religious right training camp known as Liberty University, but I still believe it was not a good idea for him to let them use him to increase their visibility and credibility.

And since I’ve seen some news articles expressing surprise that Liberty students would cheer for Sanders’ statements on abortion and gay rights, here’s a comment from a Liberty student explaining that the people cheering were actually Sanders supporters invited to the event — not students.

I go to liberty so I was there and so everyone knows he was treated with respect. I like him and his views on certain things but obviously as a Christian and also my personal beliefs I disagree with his views on gays and abortion. But it was a fun time and I wish this showed the entire event because it was fun. And for those of you saying that some liberty student cheered for him, those people were supporters of his that were invited (not just students). Not a lot of students cheered for him aside from me and a handful of others. But I was very pleased with what he said although again I am against homosexuality and abortion. I also didn’t like when he mentioned jobs for young people but only said that 51% (I could be wrong on that percentage) of young black people can’t find jobs. What about young white people. But other than that I was really looking forward to it and I really liked it.

So, no — Bernie Sanders didn’t somehow win these religious fanatics over. That’s never going to happen.

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336 comments
1
No Country For Old Haters  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:20:14pm
but obviously as a Christian and also my personal beliefs I disagree with his views on gays and abortion.

The ignorant Conservatives seem to never realize that hatred of gay people is a dumb, destructive, social Conservative thing, rather than a Christian thing.

2
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:22:12pm

re: #1 No Country For Old Haters

The ignorant Conservatives seem to never realize that hatred of gay people is a dumb, destructive, social Conservative thing, rather than a Christian thing.

You can’t simply dismiss 2000 years of Christian homophobia.

3
No Country For Old Haters  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:23:26pm

re: #2 Nyet

You can’t simply dismiss 2000 years of Christian homophobia.

I can when no Christian I know in 2015 is homophobic. Conservatives cling to old, harmful ways. At this point the homophobia is not coming from Liberal Christians.

4
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:24:16pm

Speaking of the last thread, I hope LAT releases the Khalidi tape now that it doesn’t matter any longer. Ya, I’m a curious fellow :P

5
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:26:22pm

re: #3 No Country For Old Haters

I can when no Christian I know in 2015 is homophobic. Conservatives cling to old, harmful ways. At this point the homophobia is not coming from Liberal Christians.

Sure, yet it’s still a thoroughly Christian thing, promoted mostly by Christians in the US. Why? Because it’s on his hat in their books.

6
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:27:47pm

Not surprised. I mean even if younger evangelicals are considered more forward thinking than their older counterparts. This just sounds too hard to believe. I give Sanders credit for not pandering at Liberty but I am not shocked that these people cheering weren’t students. A person who would be a strong supporter of Sanders isn’t going to enroll themselves at Liberty and give money to the Falwells.

7
No Country For Old Haters  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:28:13pm

re: #5 Nyet

Sure, yet it’s still a thoroughly Christian thing, promoted mostly by Christians in the US. Why? Because it’s on his hat in their books.

It was a Christian thing. Now it’s just the regressive Conservative Christians who are caught in the past. It’s not even all of the Conservative Christians anymore either, just the worst of them.

8
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:28:46pm
What about young white people?

Wish I was still young.

9
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:29:50pm
10
It's on his hat!  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:30:40pm

re: #9 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Sanders’s campaign is run by tone-deaf idiots, it seems.

11
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:30:56pm

re: #10 It’s on his hat!

Satire!

12
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:31:36pm

re: #9 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You know that’s really lame. Especially since Bernie tries to act like he’s above it by saying he won’t attack Clinton. I like Bernie, I really do, and I think he’s been a strong voice on good causes for a long time but that shit is just crappy- pardon the lame cliche.

13
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:32:13pm

re: #10 It’s on his hat!

Sanders’s campaign is run by tone-deaf idiots, it seems.

I think he should respond by claiming that Bernie is too conservative. Why should right wingers do all the trolling?

14
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:32:18pm

re: #9 jaunte

But it’s okay because it’s Sanders, right?

Of course, if Clinton’s campaign did something similar it would be a national scandal on both sides.

15
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:32:51pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Seems more self-indulgent than effective.

16
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:33:22pm

re: #15 jaunte

Seems more self-indulgent than effective.

I think you just summed up the whole campaign.

17
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:33:31pm

Charles, typo at the beginning of the second paragraph.

And since I’ve been some news articles…

Should be

And since I’ve seen some news articles…

18
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:34:12pm

re: #7 No Country For Old Haters

It was a Christian thing. Now it’s just the regressive Conservative Christians who are caught in the past.

As long as it is rooted in historical Christianity, it’s a Christian thing.

19
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:34:32pm

re: #15 jaunte

Seems more self-indulgent than effective.

I just don’t know why they think this will do anything other than annoy people.

20
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:35:15pm

I remember when the emoprogs gave Obama shit for that prayer with Rick Warren.
Bernie with LU?
They claim it’s ‘outreach’.
Funny, that.

21
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:36:27pm

Re-posted from downstairs in case somebody missed it:

???????????

22
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:36:43pm

re: #13 Iwouldprefernotto

I think he should respond by claiming that Bernie is too conservative. Why should right wingers do all the trolling?

You jest but I do know someone who thinks exactly that. This is the thing. There’s always going to be someone more “progressive.” Now I want a candidate that will share my agenda but I also want someone who will know how to lead and get shit done. Bernie having a great progressive record will mean nothing if he’s unable to get much passed. That’s why Biden appeals to me I guess. I think his career in the Senate and now VP has given him a very unique understanding of how Congress works. Hillary has the same thing going but I have to admit that Biden appeals to me more because I like Joe more.

23
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:40:00pm

re: #21 b_sharp

Re-posted from downstairs in case somebody missed it:

42

24
Targetpractice  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:40:19pm

re: #9 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I have no problem with Sanders, but his fan club I could do without.

25
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:40:58pm
26
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:41:50pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

I have no problem with Sanders, but his fan club I could do without.

The Gandhi quote about Christ works. Not that I am comparing Sanders to Christ but the idea that zealous supporters are more annoying than the object of their support.

27
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:42:46pm

re: #25 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Oh god dammit get over it that, @DianeDinnigan

28
Bird in the Paw  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:42:52pm

re: #25 Kragar

Whut?

29
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:43:03pm
What about young white people?

I really wish these people (and the #alllivesmatter assholes) could hear how they sound to others.

Like running into a benefit to raise money for cancer research and yelling “what about diabetes!”

30
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:44:17pm

re: #28 Bird in the Paw

Whut?

His tweet was a response to this:

Diane Dinnigan ‏@DianeDinnigan 4m4 minutes ago
@Kragar_LGF @TheDanRather @MarlowNYC They weren’t fake, they were photocopies.

31
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:45:34pm

re: #23 Nyet

42

Um, what is 6 apples crossed with 7 oranges?

32
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:46:22pm

re: #29 Jack Burton

I really wish these people (and the #alllivesmatter assholes) could hear how they sound to others.

Like running into a benefit to raise money for cancer research and yelling “what about diabetes!”

It’s just so stupid. Maybe I’d understand “all lives matter” or its sister “blue lives matter” if murders of other groups weren’t being indicted due to prosecutors office sympathizing with the killer. I’ve seen some friends of mine post photos of cops that have been murdered and want to know why BLM isn’t outraged about their deaths. Well, those people are being prosecuted and hell the prosecutor’s office is probably putting in extra effort to convict them. BLM exists because we couldn’t even get indictments for Mike, Tamir, Eric, and so many others. Indictments, not even convictions but indictments for people we know for sure were unarmed and killed by the police.

33
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:46:53pm

re: #25 Kragar

Even genuine documentary proof Bush had been AWOL wouldn’t have changed the vote.

34
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:47:21pm

re: #31 b_sharp

Um, what is 6 apples crossed with 7 oranges?

6.5 fruits as depicted on the Freakonomics cover.

35
Charles Johnson  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:47:22pm

re: #25 Kragar

There are still some liberals who refuse to believe those documents were faked; they’ll never accept that. Partisan blindness is a real thing.

And I get right wingers all the time asking me when I’m going to retract my work exposing those documents. Answer: never. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with real, serious fraud.

From what I’m reading the Rathergate movie is going to try to make the case that the story itself was accurate despite the documents being “questionable.” It may be true that Bush ducked out of his National Guard service; it probably is, in fact. But when they rushed to use fraudulent documents without properly verifying them they destroyed their own story. Period.

And these docs weren’t just fake - they were obviously fake.

36
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:48:18pm

re: #34 Nyet

6.5 fruits as depicted on the Freakonomics cover.

I bet Kim Davis would never sign off on them.

37
Franklin  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:48:29pm

Fake But Accurate lives on….

38
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:48:43pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

There are still some liberals who refuse to believe those documents were faked; they’ll never accept that. Partisan blindness is a real thing.

And I get right wingers all the time asking me when I’m going to retract my work exposing those documents. Answer: never. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with real, serious fraud.

From what I’m reading the Rathergate movie is going to try to make the case that the story itself was accurate despite the documents being “questionable.” It may be true that Bush ducked out of his National Guard service; it probably is, in fact. But when they rushed to use fraudulent documents without properly verifying them they destroyed their own story. Period.

And these docs weren’t just fake - they were obviously fake.

I think you should write your story.

39
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:49:56pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

Oh god dammit get over it that, @DianeDinnigan

Dan Rather did very well for himself for a long time, then pissed away the final years of his career falling for an obvious fake. The truth hurts, but he should just accept it and move on.

40
Charles Johnson  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:50:08pm

Rather probably could have saved the story — and his reputation — if he had immediately admitted the documents were frauds, and retracted them. But instead he refuses to this day to admit that. His egomania and pride are what really took him down.

41
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:50:22pm

re: #38 Iwouldprefernotto

I think you should write your story.

Using a different font.

42
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:50:24pm
43
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:50:53pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

Rather probably could have saved the story — and his reputation — if he had immediately admitted the documents were frauds, and retracted them. But instead he refuses to this day to admit that. His egomania and pride are what really took him down.

This is true of so many.

44
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:51:18pm

It’s kind of like those overzealous tough on crime types that still want convictions obtained unethically to stand because in their mind the perp did it so it doesn’t matter that there was impropriety. Take it from someone who really wanted to see Bush beaten bad in 2004, that was a bad chapter. Any lefty who still holds that against Charles is being a partisan hack.

45
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:52:15pm

re: #9 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I may be the only one, but I think it’s funny. It pokes fun at how serious campaigns take themselves.

46
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:52:57pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

Rather probably could have saved the story — and his reputation — if he had immediately admitted the documents were frauds, and retracted them. But instead he refuses to this day to admit that. His egomania and pride are what really took him down.

Rather fell into the easiest trap of all —- he wanted the documents to be genuine, so he probably never even considered the possibility that they were fake before running the story.

After it all blew up in his face is when pride and stubbornness kicked in. This is a level of reality denial usually reserved for RWNJs.

47
A Mom Anon  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:53:15pm

I may be way off here, but at this point I have a couple of observations:

1) It never seems to fail that anytime someone with a pretty decent left wing platform and ideas gets the tiniest foothold, their campaign/message goes to hell in a handbasket. I’m beginning to think this isn’t some sort of accidental coincidence. Sen. Sanders’ campaign looks like it’s being run by arrogant and naïve know it alls who are incredibly tone deaf. The missteps also WILL get thrown around as examples of how stupid and ridiculous liberals in general are. None of this is going to help much. He may be drawing crowds at events, and he does have some really good ideas (that I’d like to see more details of) that I think would help right a lot of the imbalances we’re seeing right now. I’m just not sure how this is going to play when it comes down to the primaries, especially with some of the crazy shit Bernie fans and supporters are putting out there now. And the attacks if you even question what’s going on message wise are out of hand a lot of the time. Some of these folks come off like spoiled children demanding attention.

2) One good thing the Sanders campaign can do is push the entire Democratic party farther left. Contrary to popular bullshit, what’s considered “far left” at this moment in time is barely left of center, if that much. Hell, Obama is really more of an old school conservative than most so called conservatives are now. But he’s been caricatured, as have all liberals as well, as some sort of communist left wing Stalin clone that’s going to kill us all and liberals hate America and must be stopped at all costs. I love it when conservatives tell me all about what liberals think and do all day long and yet they never bother to ask us or talk with us about those things.

Just my two cents, and we’re still over a year out on this thing. Hopefully things will gel a lot better in the next few months. Otherwise this is going to end up being a shitshow.

48
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:53:37pm

re: #43 Iwouldprefernotto

This is true of so many.

That very year I took journalism in high school and we learned about Stephen Glass. To refresh memories or if you don’t know the story, Glass was a young reporter or the New Republic that outright fabricated many stories in the late 90’s and lost his job because of it. I never really got too far outside a beat writer in journalism but I always tried to quote my subjects accurately wen I interviewed them.

49
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:53:47pm

re: #41 b_sharp

Using a different font.

A throbbing font.

50
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:54:27pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

It’s just so stupid. Maybe I’d understand “all lives matter” or its sister “blue lives matter” if murders of other groups weren’t being indicted due to prosecutors office sympathizing with the killer. I’ve seen some friends of mine post photos of cops that have been murdered and want to know why BLM isn’t outraged about their deaths. Well, those people are being prosecuted and hell the prosecutor’s office is probably putting in extra effort to convict them. BLM exists because we couldn’t even get indictments for Mike, Tamir, Eric, and so many others. Indictments, not even convictions but indictments for people we know for sure were unarmed and killed by the police.

I have way too many friends who are kneejerk “pro-cop” wingnuts and/or ex or current law enforcement officers (also Dep. Darren Goforth that was killed a couple of weeks ago in Texas was the cousin of an acquaintance of mine) to really discuss this issue as it needs to be anywhere but here. I can tell you that BLM has an uphill battle with anyone that’s melanin deficient and some of their tactics (like what happened at the Sanders speech) aren’t helping.

51
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:55:13pm

And the war continues even after the peace treaty has been signed.

lMississipi Never Learns

52
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:55:15pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

Here is one such person, who’s lately retreated to “neither side can prove anything because we don’t have the originals” but was not so circumspect in 2004:

mahablog.com

dailykos.com

53
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:56:02pm
54
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:56:19pm

re: #50 Jack Burton

I have way too many friends who are kneejerk “pro-cop” wingnuts and/or ex or current law enforcement officers (also Dep. Darren Goforth that was killed a couple of weeks ago in Texas was the cousin of an acquaintance of mine) to really discuss this issue as it needs to be anywhere but here. I can tell you that BLM has an uphill battle with anyone that’s melanin deficient and some of their tactics (like what happened at the Sanders speech) aren’t helping.

They do have an uphill battle for sure. I just think a lot of people don’t understand why they’re upste. I just hate the lie that if you’re horrified by police brutality that it means that you hate the police and want police departments weakened.

55
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 1:57:16pm

re: #52 Nyet

PS: just to be sure: their arguments are bunk.

56
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:00:10pm

When someone tries to prove to me that perpetuum mobile is possible, I don’t have to check their wacko formulas. One simple principle is enough: where’s the beef?

Same here. After more than a decade nobody has been able to duplicate the memos on a contemporary typewriter. Case closed.

57
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:01:32pm

re: #47 A Mom Anon

It’s good to see you back and commenting again!

Regarding your #1, it’s especially galling to see this tone-deaf commentary from Sanders be given a pass while every little thing Clinton does gets uber-scrutinized even from before she was running for President again - because she should have known that they were going to be going over her past with a fine tooth comb, see, and that’s why she is a questionable candidate. To paraphrase the arguments I’ve seen.

How the politician and their campaign approaches things matters. You can poke at how seriously campaigns takes themselves without being an ass towards the voter who gave you some time and consideration, and that’s what they’re doing.

58
Bird in the Paw  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:01:55pm

re: #30 Jack Burton

Oh. Rathergate. Shudder

59
Bird in the Paw  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:04:21pm

re: #45 Blind Frog Belly White

I may be the only one, but I think it’s funny. It pokes fun at how serious campaigns take themselves.

In a ham-fisted kinda way. The sentiment is there; the execution fall flat.

60
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:04:28pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

Rather fell into the easiest trap of all —- he wanted the documents to be genuine, so he probably never even considered the possibility that they were fake before running the story.

After it all blew up in his face is when pride and stubbornness kicked in. This is a level of reality denial usually reserved for RWNJs.

I’m still curious where the fakes came from in the first place. That is, the producer didn’t create them, Rather didn’t create them. Maybe the ‘source’ did, or maybe he got them from someone else - which was his claim, IIRC - but why would anyone spend so much time recreating the STYLE of the appropriate documents without simply grabbing a typewriter? Some suggested at the time it was a Roger Stone ratfuck that succeeded beyond all expectation.

Doesn’t relieve Rather or his producer of guilt, or course.

61
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:06:26pm

re: #57 klys (maker of Silmarils)

It’s good to see you back and commenting again!

Regarding your #1, it’s especially galling to see this tone-deaf commentary from Sanders be given a pass while every little thing Clinton does gets uber-scrutinized even from before she was running for President again - because she should have known that they were going to be going over her past with a fine tooth comb, see, and that’s why she is a questionable candidate. To paraphrase the arguments I’ve seen.

How the politician and their campaign approaches things matters. You can poke at how seriously campaigns takes themselves without being an ass towards the voter who gave you some time and consideration, and that’s what they’re doing.

What annoys me is how patronizing they can be. I mean even when I was probably more closer to being what could be called a Sanders supporter in the late spring and early summer, I just hated the condescending attitudes I saw directed at Clinton supporters. That you(not just you in specific klys but any Clinton) supporter is “less progressive” because of your candidate of choice is crap. It’s funny though, I’ve actually moved away from Sanders as he’s apparently grown more popular and I am more sympathetic to Clinton now.

62
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:06:33pm

Rathergate was the greatest example of confirmation bias I’ve ever seen in the media.

63
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:06:35pm

re: #60 Blind Frog Belly White

The story might have been 100% accurate.

That is not the point.

The point is, when you forge evidence to prove your point, even if your point is 100% accurate, you just became a fraud and a liar.

64
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:08:16pm

re: #42 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Since when is having no time an excuse?

Are you not allowed to make corrections the next day?

Does anyone have the originals of the Ten Commandments?

When can I go home?

65
Targetpractice  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:08:35pm

re: #63 Kragar

The story might have been 100% accurate.

That is not the point.

The point is, when you forge evidence to prove your point, even if your point is 100% accurate, you just became a fraud and a liar.

Prexactly, it doesn’t matter if tomorrow someone finally stumbles across the real memos, the taint is there forever. Rather did so much damage to Bush’s critics that there is simply no way to ever absolve him of any guilt. Whatever good he’d done in his career was totally undone by his need to confirm his own bias.

66
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:08:48pm

All I did was point out the documents were faked, providing the evidence to that fact and she accuses me of being nasty and blocks me:

What a twit

67
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:09:05pm

I mean to be honest, I still do wish we had some better candidates out there and to some extent the idea of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-Clinton does rub me the wrong way but Hillary has earned her resume on her own merits too. If she feels she’s the best choice for president and she can convince enough people o that, I can’t get too annoyed.

68
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:09:22pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

I don’t even know if I would go so far as to call myself a Clinton supporter. I will vote Democrat in the general because the party aligns with my beliefs. I would like to see them nominate a candidate who can get shit done. When it’s closer to time to actually vote in the primaries I’ll review my choices and see where things stand.

I’m not sure I like Sanders all that much right now though, and I definitely don’t like the attitude I see from some of his supporters. His message might be great, but one of the reasons I went for Obama in 2008 over Clinton (during the primary) was because I like the person and the platforms were close enough that I could choose.

69
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:09:23pm
70
Bird in the Paw  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:09:43pm

re: #53 Kragar

Heh. “He’s got nasty”. That’s not normally where that descriptor is applied

71
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:09:59pm

re: #63 Kragar

The story might have been 100% accurate.

That is not the point.

The point is, when you forge evidence to prove your point, even if your point is 100% accurate, you just became a fraud and a liar.

Not my point at all!

Someone forged them, but they may have forged them discredit Bush, in which case they’re idiots to have done it in such an easily discoverable way.

Or maybe someone forged them to discredit any news agency that ran with them, in which case they’re geniuses for doing it in such an easily discoverable way.

72
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:10:37pm

re: #68 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I don’t even know if I would go so far as to call myself a Clinton supporter. I will vote Democrat in the general because the party aligns with my beliefs. I would like to see them nominate a candidate who can get shit done. When it’s closer to time to actually vote in the primaries I’ll review my choices and see where things stand.

I’m not sure I like Sanders all that much right now though, and I definitely don’t like the attitude I see from some of his supporters. His message might be great, but one of the reasons I went for Obama in 2008 over Clinton (during the primary) was because I like the person and the platforms were close enough that I could choose.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were definitely a Hillary supporter. But that’s something I value too- getting shit done. And liking the person means a lot too. I really like Biden a lot for example.

73
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:11:14pm

Interestingly, maha goes on about how superscripts are available, but forgets to mention that they looked laughably different from what one sees in the Killian memos (and in Microsoft word).

Image: super.jpg

74
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:11:20pm

I’ll vote for whoever the hell is the Dem nominee.
Any of them are better than a Republican.

75
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:11:27pm

re: #47 A Mom Anon

It also doesn’t help that Sanders will criticize the right for being AGW-deniers and creationists, and then in the same breath rant about GMOs and Monsanto.

He also buys the “NSA BAD! SNOWDEN GOOD!!!111!” bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

76
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:11:55pm

re: #72 HappyWarrior

Oh, sorry. I thought you were definitely a Hillary supporter. But that’s something I value too- getting shit done. And liking the person means a lot too. I really like Biden a lot for example.

No worries, I just figured I would set the record straight.

If I had to vote between declared candidates today, it would probably be Hillary for any number of reasons, but I’m not anywhere near committed yet.

I like to pretend the election is still a ways off.

77
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:11:58pm
78
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:13:15pm

re: #75 Jack Burton

It also doesn’t help that Sanders will criticize the right for being AGW-deniers and creationists, and then in the same breath rant about GMOs and Monsanto.

He also buys the “NSA BAD! SNOWDEN GOOD!!!111!” bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

I once compared anti GMO nuts to AGW deniers at Raw Story.
It was glorious.
XD

79
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:13:37pm

re: #77 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“No, no! Being mean and nasty is IN ADDITION TO offering the links and facts to prove my point! You get the mean and nasty as a bonus!”
//

80
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:14:53pm

re: #66 Kragar

Lots of Twits Tweet. Too many for me to go into that swamp. Can’t get high enough boots.

81
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:16:07pm

re: #80 nines09

Lots of Twits Tweet. Too many for me to go into that swamp. Can’t get high enough boots.

You could wear hip waders, and the crap still runs over the top when the waves peak, and gets all over your clothes.

82
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:17:27pm

I even saw one Bernie supporter I know give Hillary grief for having been a Goldwater girl in 1964. Okay……she was 17 years old. I mean I am proud of my progrssive re: #76 klys (maker of Silmarils)

No worries, I just figured I would set the record straight.

If I had to vote between declared candidates today, it would probably be Hillary for any number of reasons, but I’m not anywhere near committed yet.

I like to pretend the election is still a ways off.

We got time. I am honestly undecided. I was a Bernie supporter but the campaign has really turned me off. I mean I appreciate his record, I really do but I do want to being able to like the person and there’s a lot about Bernie that I do but I am also feeling annoyed by him too.

83
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:19:34pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

I even saw one Bernie supporter I know give Hillary grief for having been a Goldwater girl in 1964. Okay……she was 17 years old. I mean I am proud of my progrssive

Goldwater would probably be considered a raging commie by the standards of today’s GOP.

84
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:19:54pm

re: #81 Blind Frog Belly White

I appreciate the, uh, conversations I see here from Twitter. It’s the new way of reaching out and pissing on people app it seems for some folks. You have to react to stupid at every turn. Thanks all you brave souls who go and face down derp and dipstick daily.

85
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:21:06pm

re: #83 Jack Burton

Goldwater would probably be considered a raging commie by the standards of today’s GOP.

No doubt.

86
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:22:44pm

re: #60 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m still curious where the fakes came from in the first place. That is, the producer didn’t create them, Rather didn’t create them. Maybe the ‘source’ did, or maybe he got them from someone else - which was his claim, IIRC - but why would anyone spend so much time recreating the STYLE of the appropriate documents without simply grabbing a typewriter? Some suggested at the time it was a Roger Stone ratfuck that succeeded beyond all expectation.

Doesn’t relieve Rather or his producer of guilt, or course.

I think it was a ratfuck. If so, the whole point would be for the documents to be superficially plausible while being easy to discredit if a fish in the MSM takes the hook.

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:23:05pm

re: #84 nines09

I appreciate the, uh, conversations I see here from Twitter. It’s the new way of reaching out and pissing on people app it seems for some folks. You have to react to stupid at every turn. Thanks all you brave souls who go and face down derp and dipstick daily.

I sure wouldn’t have the patience to do Twitter. It was bad enough on the Bowhunting forum, where the audience was fairly limited and there was no ‘swarming’. I was still one guy having to deal with a dozen assholes at a time. Plus I’m a windy bastard and could never limit myself to 140 characters. You can lie in 140 characters easily. Debunking takes more.

88
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:24:41pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

I even saw one Bernie supporter I know give Hillary grief for having been a Goldwater girl in 1964. Okay……she was 17 years old.

In 1964, a politically active 17 year old would almost without fail have hewed to the family’s political views.

89
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:24:43pm

re: #69 goddamnedfrank

90
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:25:10pm

re: #87 Blind Frog Belly White

I sure wouldn’t have the patience to do Twitter. It was bad enough on the Bowhunting forum, where the audience was fairly limited and there was no ‘swarming’. I was still one guy having to deal with a dozen assholes at a time. Plus I’m a windy bastard and could never limit myself to 140 characters. You can lie in 140 characters easily. Debunking takes more.

Debunking doesn’t even happen with the blind and deaf. Too many people just look for reinforcement of what they perceive truth to be. Or they’re just shit heads.

91
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:27:11pm

re: #74 Varek Raith

I’ll vote for whoever the hell is the Dem nominee.
Any of them are better than a Republican.

I’d vote for a yellow dog (D) in a contested general election against any Republican.

However, I haven’t been a lifelong (D) voter, and the Republicans could conceivably get my vote if they drop the worst 50 or so of their bigoted, stupid, and offensive political fetishes.

Like that will ever happen.

92
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:27:13pm

re: #88 Blind Frog Belly White

“Rove, you magnificent bastard!”

93
Charles Johnson  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:27:15pm

re: #73 Nyet

Interestingly, maha goes on about how superscripts are available, but forgets to mention that they looked laughably different from what one sees in the Killian memos (and in Microsoft word).

Image: super.jpg

It’s kind of pathetic how she boasts about being an “expert,” then spews a bunch of absolute nonsense that no expert would ever say.

And she claims I “massaged” the images to make that overlaid GIF file — that’s just completely false. In fact, the only “massaging” I did was to scale them to match the overall size. Period.

Fact is, it was extremely easy to create an exact duplicate of the memo in Microsoft Word, with the default settings. I didn’t even spend a half hour on it.

94
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:27:23pm

re: #90 nines09

Debunking doesn’t even happen with the blind and deaf. Too many people just look for reinforcement of what they perceive truth to be. Or they’re just shit heads.

Debunking isn’t for the blind and deaf. It’s for the undecided spectators. After I stopped posting on the bowhunting forum I got PMs from a number of lurkers telling me that I’d made them look at things differently. Still wasn’t worth wrassling with the pigs.

95
HappyWarrior  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:27:51pm

re: #88 Blind Frog Belly White

In 1964, a politically active 17 year old would almost without fail have hewed to the family’s political views.

Exactly.

96
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:30:13pm

re: #93 Charles Johnson

I must admit that I hated you for that, but I had, and have, no choice but to agree that you were right. To my credit, though, I never, ever went with the ‘fake, but accurate’ line.

97
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:30:16pm

re: #94 Blind Frog Belly White

That’s probably why I’m frustrated at times. I try to rationalize with people who have no rationale in my area.

98
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:30:41pm

re: #89 Kragar

[Embedded content]

LOLOLOLOL!!!

99
Archangelus  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:32:31pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

And these docs weren’t just fake - they were obviously astoundingly fake.

FTFY

100
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:32:41pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

101
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:33:43pm
102
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:33:49pm
103
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:33:59pm

“They weren’t fake, they were photocopies.”

I think my brain just collapsed into a black hole.

104
Great White Snark  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:35:48pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

There are still some liberals who refuse to believe those documents were faked; they’ll never accept that. Partisan blindness is a real thing.

And I get right wingers all the time asking me when I’m going to retract my work exposing those documents. Answer: never. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with real, serious fraud.

From what I’m reading the Rathergate movie is going to try to make the case that the story itself was accurate despite the documents being “questionable.” It may be true that Bush ducked out of his National Guard service; it probably is, in fact. But when they rushed to use fraudulent documents without properly verifying them they destroyed their own story. Period.

And these docs weren’t just fake - they were obviously fake.

“Fake but true” is pretty weak tea to justify the actions of a journalist of long experience and his network resourced crew. Any case against Bush on that matter simply must exclude these papers entirely. Lets admit it, the standard of evidence one needs to impugn any sitting President better pass a very high standard. Higher than what we see & might accept in blogger vs blogger.
(fill in president) derangement syndrome seems to have become a chronic condition. So many truthers saying Bush did it. The crap about his dad riding going to Paris to delay the hostage release. Whitewater. And of course our current President. Yeesh.

Enough already. They can give it to me straight or endure a virtual spit in the eye from me. This is one big reason I’m an indy. Want nothing to do with either party, love to get behind good people.

105
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:36:22pm

re: #103 Nyet

“They weren’t fake, they were photocopies.”

I think my brain just collapsed into a black hole.

Was wondering what that gravitic anomaly was.

106
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:37:01pm
107
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:37:13pm

It would be a more interesting Rathergate movie if they built the story around the question of who might have engineered this trap for Dan Rather.

108
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:37:42pm

re: #102 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Apparently, being an Army vet makes her an expert in EVERYTHING!!!

109
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:38:01pm

re: #103 Nyet

“They weren’t fake, they were photocopies.”

I think my brain just collapsed into a black hole.

Not to mention that the documents were incredible on their face. How likely is it that office gossip about W Bush’s diligence (or lack thereof) in the TANG would be put in writing by people who would face severe consequences if the Bushes found out about it?

When something seems too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

110
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:38:14pm

Uh oh, she brought out the sweetie gun.

111
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:38:58pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

“All the rest of the evidence we never brought up until later says this, why do you keep going on about the evidence we forged and was the centerpiece of our original reporting?

112
Lidane  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:38:59pm

*facepalm*

113
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:39:06pm

re: #101 goddamnedfrank

I wanted it to be true too

I did too. I don’t remember now whether I actually accepted them at any point (honest!), but I didn’t accept the debunking arguments immediately, waiting for more info.

This “th” thing (that kills the memos on its own) is so familiar to me because many right-wingers began to argue that there had been no superscripts at all. Then MediaMatters pointed out that there had been superscripts after all [even if the example they provided - the one I posted above - did not look like anything in the memos]. This made me go “aha” - if they claimed there had been no superscripts, and there had been (even if the one example available then was different), maybe they’re not such experts.

That was my thinking then anyway, which didn’t last for a long time.

114
Lidane  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:40:10pm

Reminder: Judge David Bunning is a Republican that was appointed by Dubya.

115
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:40:28pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

If that were true, all the rest of the info would have come out. The AWOL story was hearsay and legend, not something you can base a story on. The documents were what allowed Rather to go on air with the story. But they’re fake, which means of they have no evidentiary value, so all you you’re left with is hearsay and legend - exactly where you were before.

116
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:42:43pm

re: #114 Lidane

Bryan Fischer wants Judge David Bunning impeach for imposing on unconstitutional “religious test” on Kim Davis:

Lolwhut?

117
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:44:03pm

re: #115 Blind Frog Belly White

But over and above it all - THE STORY BEING TRUE WOULD NOT MAKE THOSE MEMOS REAL!

118
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:44:31pm

What simply killed the documents was absence of any credible provenance. You should always check where the docs come from. If they come straight from a proper archive/official collection/relevant website, then the burden of proof is on those who claim them to be fake.

If they come from an unknown source or there are large holes in the chain of provenance, the burden of proof is on the one claiming authenticity.

119
Archangelus  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:44:35pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

120
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:45:02pm

re: #113 Nyet

Like you said earlier, nobody’s been able to reproduce it on any conventional typewriter. It was readily reproduced identically using MS Word’s default settings. Everything else was just what we call “distressing the document” running copies of copies through a xerox machine until it looked “old” enough.

Like you I really wanted it to be true, and sat back, watched the superscript debate and held out hope that would bust it wide open. It never happened.

At this point it takes a monumental amount of credulity and self delusion to believe the document is authentic. It’s perfectly reasonable to believe that there was some shadiness surrounding Bush’s ANG service, but there is no basis whatsoever for believing that the document wasn’t faked.

121
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:50:42pm

What the fuck is with people?

122
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:55:07pm

re: #121 goddamnedfrank

She can’t concentrate on one thing.
The credibility of the AWOL story is one thing.
The authenticity of the memos is another - related, but separable - thing.

123
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:57:16pm

re: #122 Nyet

That’s what I meant above - the story being true wouldn’t make those memos not fake. That’s such a simple thing that it boggles the mind that she doesn’t grasp it.

124
Charles Johnson  Sep 14, 2015 • 2:57:18pm

re: #113 Nyet

On a typewriter, you created superscripts by backing up the roller a half-click, typing the superscript, then advancing the roller back to its former position. The superscript used the same type as the rest of the document; it was the same size, just bumped up in position.

The superscript in the fake documents was a real word processor/page layout superscript, smaller than the rest of the type.

But the superscript was just a small part of what made it obviously fake. I’ve said many times that I knew instantly the first time I saw the document that it was created on a computer. It simply had to be; there was no typewriter in existence in the 1970s that could have produced a document like that.

And when I started reproducing the doc with Microsoft Word, I actually got chills when I realized it was matching up exactly in every respect.

125
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:01:18pm

How can these clowns claim to be Christian anymore?? Or are refugees only allowed in our country when a Republican is in the WH?

126
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:01:39pm

Trump is in Dallas, exciting the throwbacks.

127
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:02:00pm
128
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:03:53pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

People who didn’t have to deal with the 1970s typewriters had a right to suspend judgment for a few weeks, I think ;)

129
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:04:24pm

re: #125 Jenner7

Hannity against it? Best argument for it.

130
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:04:54pm

Nevermind

131
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:07:37pm

re: #122 Nyet

She can’t concentrate on one thing.
The credibility of the AWOL story is one thing.
The authenticity of the memos is another - related, but separable - thing.

The ability to deal with nuance just isn’t in everyone’s toolkit. The memo wasn’t some kind of linchpin to the entire story about the preferential treatment Bush received in the TANG. These people are acting like logic doesn’t have a severability clause, that if they accept the memo was fake that means everything else surrounding the story collapses too.

132
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:08:08pm

re: #125 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

How can these clowns claim to be Christian any more?? Or are refugees only allowed in our country when a Republican is in the WH?

This is how successful ISIS is as a Public Relations Campaign - they have everyone forgetting their most basic humanity out of fear, and they didn’t even have to kill that many people to do it. Just do it horribly, and on camera.

133
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:09:02pm
134
wrenchwench  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:09:14pm

re: #128 Nyet

People who didn’t have to deal with the 1970s typewriters had a right to suspend judgment for a few weeks, I think ;)

If it’s because of youth, that should be their default mode. And get off my xeriscape.

135
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:10:52pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

Was the report probably true? Could be.

Was the evidence they use to prove it fake? Yup

Neither one negates the other.

136
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:11:10pm

re: #133 Kragar

Russian Embassy is butthurt.
Putin called the opposition many names, including jackals and national traitors.

137
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:11:29pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

The ability to deal with nuance just isn’t in everyone’s toolkit. The memo wasn’t some kind of linchpin to the entire story about the preferential treatment Bush received in the TANG. These people are acting like logic doesn’t have a severability clause, that if they accept the memo was fake that means everything else surrounding the story collapses too.

Well, but in a way it was the lynchpin. It was actual documentary evidence of dereliction of duty. Everything else was really just what people remembered, or ‘isn’t it odd that this happened?’ Without it, Bush was a privilege fuckoff who cut some corners and got a lot of slack. A memo describing him as AWOL is much more serious.

138
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:11:57pm

People in this country have been beaten and harassed for looking like Muslims. Where do we locate these refugees in a nation that’s been fired up to hate them on sight?

139
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:13:30pm

Not only, as we did not know then, was President Obama in the midst of the operation that would lead shortly to Osama bin Laden’s killing; it was also the night when, despite that preoccupation, the President took apart Donald Trump, plastic piece by orange part, and then refused to put him back together again.

140
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:15:04pm

re: #135 Kragar

My impression was that someone who knew the story, or part of it, attempted to recreate the documents as best they could. There were questions, IIRC, about what sort of activities constituted service for young Bush.

141
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:15:11pm

re: #138 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The Houston area has had some good results:
houstonchronicle.com

142
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:15:57pm
143
Charles Johnson  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:16:10pm

re: #137 Blind Frog Belly White

Well, but in a way it was the lynchpin. It was actual documentary evidence of dereliction of duty. Everything else was really just what people remembered, or ‘isn’t it odd that this happened?’ Without it, Bush was a privilege fuckoff who cut some corners and got a lot of slack. A memo describing him as AWOL is much more serious.

Exactly! And that’s why Mapes and Rather lost their objectivity and failed to vet the memos properly - they were literally too good to check. Without the AWOL memo, they had an interesting story, but definitely not a bombshell scoop that would change the election. They blew it, big time, because they wanted it to be true. Confirmation bias writ large.

144
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:18:03pm

re: #140 Higgs Boson’s Mate

My impression was that someone who knew the story, or part of it, attempted to recreate the documents as best they could. There were questions, IIRC, about what sort of activities constituted service for young Bush.

Asking questions about Bush’s service record is perfectly understandable.

Forging evidence is not.

145
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:18:14pm

re: #137 Blind Frog Belly White

It’s exactly when shit is that good that a person should be asking themselves, “is this too good to be true?”

146
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:18:20pm

re: #141 jaunte

Good start! I know from personal experience that immigrants from Syria can thrive and survive here. What pisses me off is when a friend switches from fluent Arabic, to fluent English, to fluent Spanish without missing a beat.

147
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:18:42pm

re: #142 Jenner7

Scary.

148
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:19:48pm

re: #125 Jenner7

Sean Hannity: Giving Asylum To Syrian Refugees Is “The Dumbest Thing I’ve Ever Heard”

New Frontiers in Irony

149
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:19:53pm

re: #147 jaunte

I think it is time for the asteroid impact.

150
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:21:31pm

re: #144 Kragar

Asking questions about Bush’s service record is perfectly understandable.

Forging evidence is not.

If someone really did know that there was something fishy then they could have come forward. Fact is, we could John le Carré all sorts of things but, we’ll never know.

151
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:22:03pm

re: #147 jaunte

Scary.

[Embedded content]

Her free bowl of soup is in the mail.

152
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:22:17pm

re: #139 #CampaignZero

[Embedded content]

And remember how Trump just sat there and fumed.

153
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:22:26pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

Exactly! And that’s why Mapes and Rather lost their objectivity and failed to vet the memos properly - they were literally too good to check. Without the AWOL memo, they had an interesting story, but definitely not a bombshell scoop that would change the election. They blew it, big time, because they wanted it to be true. Confirmation bias writ large.

And their failure essentially took the whole issue off the table forever, AND made Bush into the victim of a dishonest smear campaign.

154
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:23:16pm

re: #147 jaunte

Scary.

[Embedded content]

Um, sir, it’s lookin’ kind of, well, tribal out there.

155
Archangelus  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:24:27pm

re: #147 jaunte

Scary.

[Embedded content]

Indeed.

156
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:24:59pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

It’s exactly when shit is that good that a person should be asking themselves, “is this too good to be true?”

This is why it’s vital to always be your own harshest critic, to not believe your own bullshit. I’ve watched fellow scientists tie themselves into intellectual knots to try and hold onto what they want to be true in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and That Way Madness Lies.

157
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:26:31pm

Heh, I was going through the old old thread posted earlier where Charles congratulated Obama for winning in 2008.

Someone had this YouTube linked. What a gem.

Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem

158
Varek Raith  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:27:10pm

re: #149 EPR-radar

I think it is time for the asteroid impact.

5 or 10km?

159
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:28:10pm

re: #156 Blind Frog Belly White

This is why it’s vital to always be your own harshest critic, to not believe your own bullshit. I’ve watched fellow scientists tie themselves into intellectual knots to try and hold onto what they want to be true in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and That Way Madness Lies.

I never understood that. Why people can’t get just as exciting to discover that they were wrong. Also, why people can’t accept that “equivocal” is a totally valid, publishable result.

160
Amory Blaine  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:29:09pm

re: #147 jaunte

Fur is murder.

161
aagcobb  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:30:41pm

re: #138 Higgs Boson’s Mate

People in this country have been beaten and harassed for looking like Muslims. Where do we locate these refugees in a nation that’s been fired up to hate them on sight?

I’ve heard Dearborn Michigan is already under sharia law./

162
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:32:46pm

re: #157 ObserverArt

Heh, I was going through the old old thread posted earlier where Charles congratulated Obama for winning in 2008.

Someone had this YouTube linked. What a gem.

[Embedded content]

There was so much butthurt in the comments there; how 0bama (lol at the “clever” use of zero instead of a capital “O” so many used) was going to send people to the camps; guns and ammo, get ‘em now while ya can!; emigrate to Chile or Ireland or other countries; Sharia and Taqiyya!; and the ever popular, SECCESSION NOW!

163
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:33:14pm

These religious Republicans….

I think this was reported a couple of days ago, but if not, here is BuzzFeed’s take:

Huckabee: Europeans Accepting “Alleged” Syrian Refugees Have Forgotten The Lessons Of 9/11

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee says European nations are forgetting the “lessons of 9/11” by allowing “alleged-Syrian refugees” into their countries.

Huckabee made the comments while speaking on his $59-a-year podcast, “The Huckabee Exclusive,” that he started a month before running for president.

“Many Europeans have also forgotten the lessons of 9/11 as they allow waves of alleged Syrians refugees to stream across their borders and denounce anyone who questions it as being intolerant,” declared Huckabee on his paywalled podcast. “Even as some of the newcomers were attacking and cursing police, throwing bottles, and shouting ‘Allahu akbar.’”

[…]

164
Jack Burton  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:33:23pm

re: #138 Higgs Boson’s Mate

People in this country have been beaten and harassed for looking like Muslims. Where do we locate these refugees in a nation that’s been fired up to hate them on sight?

FEMA CAMPS!

/

165
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:34:07pm

re: #161 aagcobb

And, as I’m so fond of harping on, if one of them so much as swipes a candy bar there will be calls for mass something dire.

This country is really fucked up in some ways. One of two political parties is running on them.

166
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:34:33pm

“Where are we?”

167
Amory Blaine  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:36:26pm

GOP lawmaker moves to have governor, not voters, pick schools chief

After an appeals court overruled Republican attempts to weaken the powers of the state’s elected schools superintendent, a GOP lawmaker wants to let the governor choose the superintendent rather than voters.

It’s one of several changes that Republicans have made to weaken the powers of state and local officials aligned with Democrats, moves that GOP lawmakers say are needed to make government work more smoothly. Democrats scoff at that, saying the legislation is nothing more than a naked power grab transferring authority from voters to Republican officials.

The current schools superintendent, Tony Evers, has ties to Democrats and in 2011 Gov. Scott Walker and lawmakers attempted to give the governor the power to halt administrative rules issued by Evers. But in February 2015 a state appeals court upheld a lower court decision striking down that move as unconstitutional given that the state’s charter says that “the supervision of public instruction shall be vested in a state superintendent” elected to four-year terms in officially non-nonpartisan elections.

….”That action helped to create a strong system of public schools that are the envy of many states across the country. Taking that vote away from the people is a sad attack at the heart of our democracy and our state’s history,” Johnson said.

Evers has one of the few positions left in state government that aren’t controlled by Republicans, making him a frequent target of criticism from conservative groups such as those supporting taxpayer-funded private voucher schools. The state’s teachers union, the Wisconsin Education Association Council, frequently defends Evers.

Total destruction of the enemy. Divided and conquered.

168
WhatEVs  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:36:28pm

re: #139 #CampaignZero

[Embedded content]

Interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

169
aagcobb  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:36:35pm

re: #163 freetoken

These religious Republicans….

I think this was reported a couple of days ago, but if not, here is BuzzFeed’s take:

Huckabee: Europeans Accepting “Alleged” Syrian Refugees Have Forgotten The Lessons Of 9/11

Huck, when you meet Jesus, he will say “I was a stranger and you didn’t invite me in.”

170
Nyet  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:37:43pm

re: #166 jaunte

At the Meetings Snowball often won over the majority by his
brilliant speeches, but Napoleon was better at canvassing support for
himself in between times. He was especially successful with the sheep. Of
late the sheep had taken to bleating “Four legs good, two legs bad” both
in and out of season, and they often interrupted the Meeting with this. It
was noticed that they were especially liable to break into “Four legs
good, two legs bad” at crucial moments in Snowball’s speeches.

171
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:39:04pm

re: #159 goddamnedfrank

I never understood that. Why people can’t get just as exciting to discover that they were wrong. Also, why people can’t accept that “equivocal” is a totally valid, publishable result.

Well, if your hypothesis is earthshaking, if the answer is ‘Yes’, you can publish it in Nature or Science, with an accompanying ‘News And Views’. If not, you struggle to get it through peer review at a third-line journal. I know this from bitter experience.

172
WhatEVs  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:39:21pm

re: #147 jaunte

Scary.

[Embedded content]

Someone should gently remind her if she’s angling for Trump Wife # (who knows), she’s a smidge too old. Donald always trades in for a younger model.

173
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:39:44pm

re: #163 freetoken

These religious Republicans….

I think this was reported a couple of days ago, but if not, here is BuzzFeed’s take:

Huckabee: Europeans Accepting “Alleged” Syrian Refugees Have Forgotten The Lessons Of 9/11

Just as bad as Rep. Pete King saying taking in Syrian refugees was the same as inviting more Boston bombers.

*spit*

174
aagcobb  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:39:45pm

re: #165 Higgs Boson’s Mate

And, as I’m so fond of harping on, if one of them so much as swipes a candy bar there will be calls for mass something dire.

This country is really fucked up in some ways. One of two political parties is running on them.

But you know the US really isn’t that dangerous a place. Last weekend I was in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, which is the apogee of Southern redneck culture (Confederate Battle Flags were all over the place), and yet we passed Muslims on the sidewalk kneeling to pray.

175
whitebeach  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:40:09pm

The minute I saw the images of the AWOL docs I thought “word processor,” although my initial guess was WordPerfect rather than Word. Then I tried to find a match to early Selectrics. Couldn’t. I really wanted to believe, but the evidence didn’t lie. So I hoped Dan would do the right thing and quickly issue a retraction. No such luck. Now apparently he’s reflogging the same horse corpse. Reminds me of Linda Fairstein, the NY prosecutor who completely screwed up the Central Park jogger case and to this day insists she was right because, dammit , those kids must have been guilty of something.

176
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:42:04pm

re: #163 freetoken

shouting ‘Allahu akbar.’

apparently huck thinks this is an offensive phrase in arabic

177
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:44:40pm

re: #176 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

apparently huck thinks this is an offensive phrase in arabic

.. and not at all like “under God” in the modified Pledge of Allegiance. Eh?

178
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:45:10pm

re: #163 freetoken

These religious Republicans….

I think this was reported a couple of days ago, but if not, here is BuzzFeed’s take:

Huckabee: Europeans Accepting “Alleged” Syrian Refugees Have Forgotten The Lessons Of 9/11

IIRC, no one of the hijackers was here as a refugee.

179
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:46:43pm

Pre-show on MSNBC - talking heads trying to sound all intelligent about the GOP field by saying that this or that candidate needs to talk about such and such… as if these “debates” are about anything of substance.

180
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:46:55pm

re: #167 Amory Blaine

It’s one of several changes that Republicans have made to weaken the powers of state and local officials aligned with Democrats, moves that GOP lawmakers say are needed to make government work more smoothly.

You know what else comes out smoothly?

181
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:47:42pm

re: #175 whitebeach

The minute I saw the images of the AWOL docs I thought “word processor,” although my initial guess was WordPerfect rather than Word. Then I tried to find a match to early Selectrics. Couldn’t. I really wanted to believe, but the evidence didn’t lie. So I hoped Dan would do the right thing and quickly issue a retraction. No such luck. Now apparently he’s reflogging the same horse corpse. Reminds me of Linda Fairstein, the NY prosecutor who completely screwed up the Central Park jogger case and to this day insists she was right because, dammit , those kids must have been guilty of something.

I once had a Death Penalty supporter tell me that even if Death Row inmates weren’t guilty of the PARTICULAR crime for which they were to be executed, they were probably guilty of SOMEthing, because nobody innocent gets in that much trouble.

I couldn’t even respond cogently, it was such a bizarre thing to say.

182
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:48:26pm

re: #180 Higgs Boson’s Mate

You know what else comes out smoothly?

Greyhound Soft-Serv?
//

183
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:50:17pm
184
WhatEVs  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:50:41pm

My MIL’s two friends (two older white women) have been going to TN every year for about 20 years now. They spend a few weeks there every summer and have for a very long time.

This year when they went on their annual vacation, there was a broad display of confederate flags, something they hadn’t seen before in all the years they have been going there. I am unclear how the conversation started but these two older women apparently were not satisfactorily cheerful concerning the flying of the confederate flag to the locals and they both wound up being exceptionally uncomfortable with the conversation and the demonstration that was going on.

They said they will no longer go to TN for their annual vacation…after 20 years of going to the same place.

185
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:52:59pm

re: #179 freetoken

Pre-show on MSNBC - talking heads trying to sound all intelligent about the GOP field by saying that this or that candidate needs to talk about such and such… as if these “debates” are about anything of substance.

A proper discussion of the substance of the GOP debate won’t happen in the media.

The only real thing to talk about would be the volume and consistency of thrown poop.

However, that would make it too clear that throwing poop is all that the GOP has to offer.

186
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:54:36pm

re: #184 WhatEVs

Yeah, I know of people who are rallying around that confederate battle flag even though they have no ties to the usual Civil War groups who have long done so.

This really is a case of teenager-style emotional rebellion against the parents.

187
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:55:44pm

re: #185 EPR-radar

A proper discussion of the substance of the GOP debate won’t happen in the media.

The only real thing to talk about would be the volume and consistency of thrown poop.

However, that would make it too clear that throwing poop is all that the GOP has to offer.

There’s also the question of who has the most colorful butt, the biggest fangs, and the best display.

188
WhatEVs  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:57:00pm

re: #186 freetoken

Yeah, I know of people who are rallying around that confederate battle flag even though they have no ties to the usual Civil War groups who have long done so.

This really is a case of teenager-style emotional rebellion against the parents.

What’s going to happen is that these displays in the south (for most of them are in the south) are going to ruin tourism for places that may depend upon it. When you drive off two tourists - two long-time, repeat business customers - by bullshit like this, and actively make them afraid, those areas are going to lose a lot.

Talk about cutting off one’s nose to spite their face.

189
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 3:59:28pm

re: #187 Blind Frog Belly White

There’s also the question of who has the most colorful butt, the biggest fangs, and the best display.

og vote for orangutan hair who make OOK OOK very loud to show butt now

190
Mattand  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:03:24pm
I go to liberty so I was there and so everyone knows he was treated with respect. I like him and his views on certain things but obviously as a Christian and also my personal beliefs I disagree with his views on gays and abortion. But it was a fun time and I wish this showed the entire event because it was fun. And for those of you saying that some liberty student cheered for him, those people were supporters of his that were invited (not just students). Not a lot of students cheered for him aside from me and a handful of others. But I was very pleased with what he said although again I am against homosexuality and abortion. I also didn’t like when he mentioned jobs for young people but only said that 51% (I could be wrong on that percentage) of young black people can’t find jobs. What about young white people. But other than that I was really looking forward to it and I really liked it.

Translation: I like some things Bernie Sanders said, so therefore my religous-based based ignorant views on abortion and homosexuality cannot be considered bigoted and idiotic.

Oh, and nice to see Liberty University promoting proper writing and language skills.

Jesus, the fact these alleged college “graduates” infested the ranks of the Bush administration explains a lot.

191
Pawn of the Oppressor  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:03:59pm

re: #147 jaunte

Is that Bill O’Reilly?

192
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:05:52pm

So, have we figured out how to convince the mental chastity belt wearers that it is possible for something to be fundamentally true but essentially fake yet?

193
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:09:59pm

Fox PHX livestream on Youtube:

LIVE: Donald Trump Dallas Event, GOP Debate Preview

194
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:12:31pm

re: #193 freetoken

Fox PHX livestream on Youtube:

[Embedded content]

i saw this morning where one america news broadcast substantial portions of a hillary speech

otherwise it doesnt seem possible to hear anything besides trumpnoise

195
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:13:04pm

I wonder how much these rallies cost Trump.

Even if it is considerable, all the free press it generates is probably worth more than buying the equivalent amount of time via adverts.

196
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:14:41pm

I hear the Beatles on infinite loop in the background…

197
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:15:31pm

re: #187 Blind Frog Belly White

There’s also the question of who has the most colorful butt, the biggest fangs, and the best display.

I missed that. However, the GOP candidates would have to at least moon the audience in order for such important criteria to be evaluated, which might cause other problems.

198
Great White Snark  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:16:41pm

Oooops. Oh Matt, damn it man gotta do better than that. I love Project Greenlight in concept. Diversity in film is a positive thing that comes from diverse talent behind the camera not just in cast.

Matt Damon Interrupts Successful Black Woman Filmmaker to Explain Diversity to Her

199
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:17:14pm

Looks like VIPs coming in now… are we impressed?

200
Kragar  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:18:51pm
201
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:19:25pm

The guy doing the invocation:

en.wikipedia.org

202
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:19:51pm

re: #199 freetoken

Looks like VIPs coming in now… are we impressed?

not a bit

203
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:19:55pm
Jeffress has claimed that Islam “promoted pedophilia” and has been accused of reducing “Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists and virtually everyone else” to members of cults.[
204
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:20:25pm

re: #112 Lidane

*facepalm*

[Embedded content]

Stretching the truth for God. Seems to be a thing.

So Christian.

205
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:22:44pm

I have just realized that wingnuts are correct about Obama being a divisive president, from a certain point of view.

He divides racists from normal people.

206
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:23:45pm

re: #205 EPR-radar

He also divides Republicans from sane people.

207
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:25:49pm

I am here to experience the Trump Phenomenon.

208
KGxvi  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:27:07pm

re: #203 freetoken

if a religion has more followers/believers than your own, you can’t really call them a cult, can you? I mean, “cult” kind of implies that it is a small group. Calling three religions that have over a billion followers cults seems, um, misguided.

209
whitebeach  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:27:30pm

re: #192 b_sharp

So, have we figured out how to convince the mental chastity belt wearers that it is possible for something to be fundamentally true but essentially fake yet?

It’s frustrating to watch. It’s like someone arguing that Piltdown Man can’t have been a hoax because the theory of evolution is valid.

210
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:27:59pm

“Tear up the loyalty pledge!”

211
CuriousLurker  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:29:00pm

OT (Mecca crane collapse) - This could turn ugly if it turns out there was negligence. I sincerely hope there wasn’t.

Warning: There are some very graphic descriptions of the immediate aftermath of the collapse, so if reading about stuff like that bothers you, you might want to skip it. Emphasis added is mine:

Pilgrims traumatized, asking how Mecca crane could collapse

Saudi media reported that a committee has been established to investigate the incident. It is unclear how the kingdom’s Civil Defense, which led rescue operations, was able to determine that winds caused the crane’s collapse. The spokesman for Civil Defense could not be immediately reached for comment. […]

“Logically speaking, for a crane to fall from wind, even if there were strong winds, something doesn’t add up,” Shaaban said from his hospital bed. “If there is negligence, because of these souls lost, someone must be held accountable.”

Such concerns indicate the sensitivity of the incident for Saudi King Salman, whose title is Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques — the Grand Mosque in Mecca and the first mosque built by the Prophet Muhammad in Medina. The king visited the Grand Mosque on Saturday and later met with some of the injured being treated at the government-run Al-Noor hospital.

The Al Saud royal family’s legitimacy is rooted in part in its claim to be the protectors of Islam’s two most sacred sites that are at the center of the hajj — the pilgrimage that all Muslims are required to perform at least once in their lifetime if they are able to do so. […]

212
BlueSpotinAL  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:30:00pm

re: #181 Blind Frog Belly White

I once had a Death Penalty supporter tell me that even if Death Row inmates weren’t guilty of the PARTICULAR crime for which they were to be executed, they were probably guilty of SOMEthing, because nobody innocent gets in that much trouble.

I couldn’t even respond cogently, it was such a bizarre thing to say.

Was it Antonin Scalia?

213
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:30:37pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Like you said earlier, nobody’s been able to reproduce it on any conventional typewriter. It was readily reproduced identically using MS Word’s default settings. Everything else was just what we call “distressing the document” running copies of copies through a xerox machine until it looked “old” enough.

Like you I really wanted it to be true, and sat back, watched the superscript debate and held out hope that would bust it wide open. It never happened.

At this point it takes a monumental amount of credulity and self delusion to believe the document is authentic. It’s perfectly reasonable to believe that there was some shadiness surrounding Bush’s ANG service, but there is no basis whatsoever for believing that the document wasn’t faked.

You know, being fairly adept with type fonts and also a good visual bullshitter, I have wondered if I could duplicate a typewriter with Microsoft Word.

I think I could pull it off with Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw or even Adobe InDesign. I don’t work in Word enough to know if I could modify each and every letter’s spacing, if needed, to get the look of a classic letter-spaced strike on machine.

Now that I am thinking about it, I wonder if there are fonts available that mimic typewriter letter spacing.

The fact that the default Word setting hit the forgeries dead on said to me it was a total amateur doing the fakes. A good forgery artist would at least have known the difference between letter spacing and type font spacing. So, even some attempt at chaning the kerning in word would have been better than rock stock outta the box.

It might have made Charles work a bit more.

214
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:30:42pm
Study Explains Why Ben Carson Won’t Help The Republican Party Win Black Voters

When it comes to voting, “party matters so much more than race.”

That’s the conclusion reached by David Niven, a University of Cincinnati professor of political science who released a study last week looking into whether black Republicans, like Ben Carson, can win black votes. The conclusion reached was a definitive no — black voters are more likely to vote for black candidates, unless the candidate is a Republican.

“There are some very successful African American Republicans, but those folks don’t attract African American votes,” Niven said in a University of Cincinnati press release, contradicting the GOP’s strategy to recruit black and Hispanic candidates as a way to win over those electorates.

The study looked at voters in majority black precincts in Franklin County, Ohio and examined how they voted in the 2014 general election. Niven sent mailers to voters in support of black candidates — some of which identified the candidate’s party and some that did not. After analyzing the election results and how the mailers affected voting, Niven concluded that race is significant to black voters, but it’s not their primary political influence.

“Simply knowing the candidate was African American did almost nothing for Republicans,” Niven said. “If voters knew the candidates were Republican, they finished below the top of the ticket. If voters didn’t know the candidates were Republican, they outperformed the top of the ticket.”

215
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:31:15pm

BENGHAZI!!

216
b_sharp  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:31:25pm

re: #209 whitebeach

It’s frustrating to watch. It’s like someone arguing that Piltdown Man can’t have been a hoax because the theory of evolution is valid.

Pretty much.

217
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:32:41pm

BOW DOWN!!

218
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:33:51pm

re: #213 ObserverArt

You know, being fairly adept with type fonts and also a good visual bullshitter, I have wondered if I could duplicate a typewriter with Microsoft Word.

I think I could pull it off with Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw or even Adobe InDesign. I don’t work in Word enough to know if I could modify each and every letter’s spacing, if needed, to get the look of a classic letter-spaced strike on machine.

Now that I am thinking about it, I wonder if there are fonts available that mimic typewriter letter spacing.

The fact that the default Word setting hit the forgeries dead on said to me it was a total amateur doing the fakes. A good forgery artist would at least have known the difference between letter spacing and type font spacing. So, even some attempt at chaning the kerning in word would have been better than rock stock outta the box.

It might have made Charles work a bit more.

Or, you know, he might buy a typewriter.
//

219
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:36:16pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

Dear GOP,

Identity Politics - U R Doin It Wrong.

Sincerely,

Blind Frog Belly White

220
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:37:05pm

re: #217 freetoken

BOW DOWN!!

LOOK ON MY WORKS, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR!!!

221
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:38:38pm

re: #220 Blind Frog Belly White

It was about Obama going overseas and “apologizing” and “bowing down” to those “who kill Christians”.

222
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:40:05pm

re: #221 freetoken

It was about Obama going overseas and “apologizing” and “bowing down” to those “who kill Christians”.

Ah. So, all the resentment buttons being hit.

223
Timothy Watson  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:40:50pm

re: #213 ObserverArt

You know, being fairly adept with type fonts and also a good visual bullshitter, I have wondered if I could duplicate a typewriter with Microsoft Word.

I think I could pull it off with Adobe Illustrator, CorelDraw or even Adobe InDesign. I don’t work in Word enough to know if I could modify each and every letter’s spacing, if needed, to get the look of a classic letter-spaced strike on machine.

Now that I am thinking about it, I wonder if there are fonts available that mimic typewriter letter spacing.

The fact that the default Word setting hit the forgeries dead on said to me it was a total amateur doing the fakes. A good forgery artist would at least have known the difference between letter spacing and type font spacing. So, even some attempt at chaning the kerning in word would have been better than rock stock outta the box.

It might have made Charles work a bit more.

Wouldn’t using Courier give an appearance which would be at least passable?

224
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:41:29pm

re: #139 #CampaignZero

[Embedded content]

Heh. Someone here at LGF posted the Press gig when Obama jabbed at Trump this past weekend. While watching it again, I wondered if that got Trump pissed off enough he started to think “Hey, I could run for president if this guy can, and then some day I can do this type of gathering and bust him and the Dems back.” Trump seems to have that easily dented ego that could well turn into a lifelong memory.

225
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:42:05pm

Just wrote a page on the whole Rathergate thing with excerpts from Mary Mapes’ (the reporter on the story) book where she goes after LGF.

Feel free to give me a heads up Charles if I got any facts wrong:

“Rathergate” reporter and the attack on LGF - in her words

226
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:43:18pm

re: #224 ObserverArt

That’s what was asked over on one of the major media sites, forgot which one, but the upshot was that Trump may be working out some anger over that Obama bit.

227
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:43:56pm

re: #221 freetoken

It was about Obama going overseas and “apologizing” and “bowing down” to those “who kill Christians”.

Is this still the preacher?

228
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:44:12pm

Trump drags the hate-preacher up to him on stage… get’s the obligatory hug.

Way to pander to the teavangelicals.

229
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:44:29pm

re: #227 #CampaignZero

Hate-talker, radio I believe.

230
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:45:08pm

The speaker before Trump actually said that the 2016 election will be more historic than the election of Obama.

Really.

231
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:45:18pm

Trump is tired of being pushed around by incompetent people.

232
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:45:36pm

… jokes about his insult to the Fox woman…

233
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:47:23pm

lol!

234
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:47:27pm

re: #226 freetoken

That’s what was asked over on one of the major media sites, forgot which one, but the upshot was that Trump may be working out some anger over that Obama bit.

It’s certainly plausible. Furthermore, Trump’s acting out with respect to that humiliation is most likely helpful for connecting with the resentment and feelings of humiliation that animate the GOP base.

235
BlueSpotinAL  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:47:50pm

re: #229 freetoken

Hate-talker, radio I believe.

re: #230 Jenner7

The speaker before Trump actually said that the 2016 election will be more historrionic than the election of Obama.

Really.

FTFY.

236
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:48:38pm

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

As if he needs notes to tell people it will be incredible… incredible…

237
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:49:15pm

re: #228 freetoken

Trump drags the hate-preacher up to him on stage… get’s the obligatory hug.

Way to pander to the teavangelicals.

Trump must have operatives lurking here, where we’ve been discussing his vulnerability from the lunatic RW religious nuts.

238
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:49:35pm

Who needs prompters when you have only one “speech”??

239
Timothy Watson  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:50:08pm

re: #238 Jenner7

Who needs prompters when you have only one “speech”??

And it’s a rambling stream of consciousness one too.

240
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:50:22pm

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

lol!

[Embedded content]

Cause he’s just going to go with the same blathering stream of thought.

Just like Palin.

241
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:51:02pm

re: #226 freetoken

That’s what was asked over on one of the major media sites, forgot which one, but the upshot was that Trump may be working out some anger over that Obama bit.

The New Yorker.

242
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:51:13pm

re: #238 Jenner7

Who needs prompters when you have only one “speech”??

243
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:51:15pm

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s nothing. Jeb! Bush went onstage and announced “No brain!”
244
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:51:26pm

Trump’s standard speech just has around 25 words in it, with a few proper nouns thrown in for his personal attacks.

245
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:52:24pm

re: #243 nines09

[Embedded content]

That is such a regretful photograph.

246
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:53:40pm

re: #218 Blind Frog Belly White

Or, you know, he might buy a typewriter.
//

Yeah…but since it was all digital and that is the new toolset, I was yakking about faking a mechanical with a digital. The challenge of it all. I’m not bold enough to bring down a king!

247
PhillyPretzel  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:53:56pm

re: #245 #CampaignZero

He looks like he is trying to cross his eyes.

248
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:54:03pm
249
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:54:27pm

re: #247 PhillyPretzel

He looks like he is trying to cross his eyes.

Everything is off. All that’s missing is a booger in his nostril.

:(

250
CuriousLurker  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:54:42pm

Heh, you might want to bookmark this for next time someone makes the claim that Christians don’t persecute anyone nowadays: Catholic village tells Protestant man to convert or go to prison.

FWIW, the outfit that runs the site where the article was published, Christian Today, is an evangelical news company headquartered in London, so this isn’t a case of the godless “militant secularists” (or those pesky Muslim-loving cultural Marxists) in the media telling dirty lies about Christians.

251
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:54:44pm

re: #245 #CampaignZero

That is such a regretful photograph.

It’s ALIVE!!!! Looks deep in thought…..Looks deeper……….Deeper………deeeeeppppeeerrrr…..deeeeeeeeeeeeee..

252
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:55:56pm

re: #223 Timothy Watson

Wouldn’t using Courier give an appearance which would be at least passable?

I would think so, but I do believe even those typewriter style fonts still have individual spacing for each letter and character. I’ll have to check that out. Never really got into it.

253
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:56:10pm
254
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:56:15pm

Phenomenal, incredible clown. A buffoon, really.

255
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:56:47pm
256
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:57:08pm
257
KGxvi  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:57:32pm

re: #251 nines09

Where did you get this brain?

From the laboratory… the name was Abby… Abby Normal.

258
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:57:56pm

You’re wasting your money, Trump.

259
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:58:17pm
260
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:58:39pm

re: #254 jaunte

Phenomenal, incredible clown. A buffoon, really.

The true clowns are the ones who would vote for this grifter.

261
Bubblehead II  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:58:41pm

sigh

262
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:59:01pm

re: #260 nines09

The true clowns are the ones who would vote for this grifter.

Incredible People!

263
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:59:23pm

re: #243 nines09

“The Smart One”.

264
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:59:35pm

Texas, give yourselves a hand!

265
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 4:59:49pm

re: #264 jaunte

Cheap heat.

266
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:00:21pm

re: #265 freetoken

“Who hates the media!?”

267
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:00:44pm

re: #234 EPR-radar

It’s certainly plausible. Furthermore, Trump’s acting out with respect to that humiliation is most likely helpful for connecting with the resentment and feelings of humiliation that animate the GOP base.

Trump: “Everybody pissed off at that wretched loser Obama with me?”

Making America Great Again (Let’s all get our Obama hate on together!)

268
KGxvi  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:01:13pm

I occasionally check in on the American Spectator blog, mainly because an old blogfriend writes for them and I tend to enjoy her writing. But the commenters are simply epic - and the comments on Trump posts are just amazing, either he is the greatest thing ever or he is the end of the Republican Party (and by extension the end of the Republic).

269
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:02:05pm
270
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:02:06pm

“If you think Washington is screwed up now, you just wait until I get there!” And the crowd goes wild.

271
b.d.  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:03:33pm

Hey GOP, you built that!

272
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:03:39pm
273
KGxvi  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:03:46pm

re: #265 freetoken

no, that’s a cheap pop. cheap heat is when you run down wherever it is you’re visiting.

Cheap pop (the Mick Foley special): Right here! In Grand Rapids, Michigan

Cheap heat (done by any good heel): I can’t wait to get out of this back water, one horse, hellhole and get to a real city like (insert rival city here).

274
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:04:12pm

re: #273 KGxvi

Yup, I wrote to quickly.

275
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:04:37pm
276
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:05:59pm

Closers!
Coffee is for closers!

277
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:07:07pm

re: #275 jaunte

And that is just what the media is doing. Trump has a make out session with himself, pisses on everybody else, tells the people in attendance how he is the answer without answering anything and they all get wet.

278
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:07:12pm
279
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:07:17pm

He’s telling these idiots he’s got nothing and they are eating it up! Gah!

280
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:08:45pm

Suddenly Trump has friends, but not friends, in hedge funds.

281
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:11:16pm

Ah, there’s some substance: “lower the taxes.”

282
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:12:40pm

re: #281 jaunte

Ah, there’s some substance: “lower the taxes.”

283
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:13:16pm

re: #282 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And the rubes buy it.

Idiots in America.

284
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:13:23pm

“We can do things with oil and gas that will be unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable.”

285
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:13:32pm

Um.. Trump… we are the #1 energy producer in the world already.

286
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:13:48pm

re: #284 jaunte

“We can do things with oil and gas that will be unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable.”

I hope you’re just making this shit up.

287
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:14:05pm

re: #286 Skip Intro

That was a direct quote.

288
Bubblehead II  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:14:07pm

Lizards. I came I saw. Sleep well.

289
PhillyPretzel  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:14:44pm

re: #284 jaunte

Unbelievable because even he has no idea of what is going on or what will happen.

290
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:15:31pm

Chants of USA, USA, USA.

291
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:15:32pm

I couldn’t bring myself to tune in to Trump tonight. Just too much if I plan on watching the big debate on Wednesday. Thanks for the comments. It seems to be going Trump-like.

292
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:15:51pm

Walls work.

Okay then.

293
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:16:58pm
294
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:17:08pm

Trump could easily incite a riot, and he knows it.

295
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:17:34pm

I ranted about the intelligence level of the jury I just served in.

I’m very afraid for ‘Murica.

Trump Trump Trump Trump

296
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:18:03pm

the more ridiculous trump gets, the surer i am he’ll be elected president

“Governor Stevenson, all thinking people are for you!”
Stevenson : “But I need a majority!”

297
Timothy Watson  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:18:23pm

re: #294 Skip Intro

Trump could easily incite a riot, and he knows it.

At this point, I really don’t think it’s a violation of Godwin’s Law to compare Trump to Hitler.

298
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:19:14pm
299
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:19:30pm

“We’re gonna have a great border!”

300
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:19:46pm

re: #297 Timothy Watson

At this point, I really don’t think it’s a violation of Godwin’s Law to compare Trump to Hitler.

Mussolini. His mannerisms and body language scream Benito.

301
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:19:57pm
302
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:19:58pm

re: #297 Timothy Watson

At this point, I really don’t think it’s a violation of Godwin’s Law to compare Trump to Hitler.

All he needs to do is promise, for a small paycheck deduction, a new Trumpwagon for every citizen.

303
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:20:36pm

re: #300 nines09

Mussolini. His mannerisms and body language scream Benito.

i see joe pesci

304
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:21:19pm

Hey, fuck the election. Let’s just make Trump president by acclamation.

What do you say?

305
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:21:38pm

re: #303 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

I see this.

306
freetoken  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:22:19pm

re: #305 nines09

Everybody sees that… other than the Trumpiots.

307
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:22:28pm

After reading old LGF today, I’m curious to their reaction to TRUMP.

What RWNJ website should I dare venture for a taste?

308
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:22:50pm
309
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:23:28pm

re: #308 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

He’s crazy. Flat out crazy.

310
Timothy Watson  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:23:33pm

re: #305 nines09

Embedded Image

I see this.

I keep thinking of this for some reason:
Scarface Intro - Fidel Castro Speech

311
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:23:53pm

re: #307 #CampaignZero

After reading old LGF today, I’m curious to their reaction to TRUMP.

What RWNJ website should I dare venture for a taste?

The RedState party line is mostly anti-Trump, with plenty of pro-Trump push back in the comments.

312
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:24:08pm

Will CNN give Trump a throne to sit on Wednesday night?

313
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:24:36pm

re: #297 Timothy Watson

At this point, I really don’t think it’s a violation of Godwin’s Law to compare Trump to Hitler.

I think LGF has been on that thought for about a month now. Sergey had a pretty good post about that.

When I read that people are yelling Trump, Trump, Trump we are at least looking at the road map to 20s and 30s Europe style fasc-o-mania.

Sometimes a cigar is just that…a fascist! (Whut?)

314
Jenner7  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:25:12pm

ChYna

315
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:25:34pm

Nativist time!

316
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:25:52pm
317
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:26:05pm

re: #306 freetoken

Not everyone. Nope. Not by a long shot.

318
CuriousLurker  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:26:38pm

Wow, his egomania… I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

I don’t know how his wives could stand it. No amount of money in the world would be worth dealing with that shit.

319
#CampaignZero  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:27:42pm

re: #318 CuriousLurker

Wow, his egomania… I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

I don’t know how his wives could stand it. No amount of money in the world would be worth dealing with that shit.

Melania looked fucking MISERABLE at the US Open.

320
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:27:57pm

re: #310 Timothy Watson

Self infatuation with a power trip complex and willing followers.

321
ObserverArt  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:28:20pm

re: #318 CuriousLurker

Wow, his egomania… I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

I don’t know how his wives could stand it. No amount of money in the world would be worth dealing with that shit.

‘t’is one of the reasons the rich have many houses and the couple passes each other when traveling to and fro’. Makes for a good marriage.

/

322
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:28:54pm

i was trying to game through what a trump presidency would mean. the most obvious thing is racists throughout the country feeling that they have been given permission to lynch hispanics and, probably, muslims as well

but the other thing is how both the promise to deport 11 million of the lowest earning workers in the country on short order, plus his universal solution for all woes, economic or geopolitical, protectionist tariffs, both would tend to lead to higher and higher prices

for example, he’s angry at how china undervalues its currency to make imports into the united states cheaper and therefore undercut american manufacturers

he proposes to slap a 25% tariff on them unless they let the renmin float to world levels

that is, either china makes its products much more expensive or we do it for them

who pays? the american consumer

so, under a trump presidency, what you get?

trumpflation!

323
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:30:11pm

re: #322 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

This is no problem for a billionaire.

324
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:30:17pm
325
jaunte  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:32:17pm
326
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:33:05pm

re: #324 Backwoods_Sleuth

Trump: “Hillary Clinton was the worst Secretary of State in our nation’s history.”

i would love hillary to ask trump to comment on the policies of colin powell, lawrence eagleburger, christian herter, and john foster dulles, since he claims to know so much about it

327
Decatur Deb  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:33:07pm

re: #250 CuriousLurker

Heh, you might want to bookmark this for next time someone makes the claim that Christians don’t persecute anyone nowadays: Catholic village tells Protestant man to convert or go to prison.

FWIW, the outfit that runs the site where the article was published, Christian Today, is an evangelical news company headquartered in London, so this isn’t a case of the godless “militant secularists” (or those pesky Muslim-loving cultural Marxists) in the media telling dirty lies about Christians.

No, but there have actually been instances of Catholics and Protestants being sharp with each other.

328
EPR-radar  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:33:33pm

re: #322 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Another think to consider if Trump were to become president is that he would be a total outsider with respect to the levers of power in DC. Trump would not deal with bureaucratic obstinacy and inertia well, IMO, and would likely seek to rule by decree.

The GOP would roll over for this, since they think Obama’s already been doing that for 8 years.

Yet another parallel with Germany in the 1920s and 1930s to add to the list.

329
Skip Intro  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:33:43pm
330
nines09  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:33:51pm

re: #290 jaunte

All he wants is Austria.

331
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:34:35pm

re: #323 jaunte

This is no problem for a billionaire.

his 10 billion would end up with the buying power of only, say, 4 billion

332
Timothy Watson  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:35:01pm

re: #250 CuriousLurker

Heh, you might want to bookmark this for next time someone makes the claim that Christians don’t persecute anyone nowadays: Catholic village tells Protestant man to convert or go to prison.

FWIW, the outfit that runs the site where the article was published, Christian Today, is an evangelical news company headquartered in London, so this isn’t a case of the godless “militant secularists” (or those pesky Muslim-loving cultural Marxists) in the media telling dirty lies about Christians.

But Protestants in the United States, particularly the evangelical kind, are too stupid to realize that could happen here if they got their way.

333
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 14, 2015 • 5:38:03pm

Imma gonna go get some sleep…

334
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Sep 14, 2015 • 11:19:58pm

re: #252 ObserverArt

I would think so, but I do believe even those typewriter style fonts still have individual spacing for each letter and character. I’ll have to check that out. Never really got into it.

You’d need a monotype font that has no kerning, plus some fuzziness around the edges of the characters to get that inked-on feeling. I think even the carbon-ribbon typewriters has some fuzziness around the edges. For real authenticity, the characters should not line up perfectly along a horizontal line.

I promise you that anyone who says those memos were authentic has never in their life used a typewriter to create one. I haven’t touched a typewriter in at least 25 years.

I still have my manual Olivetti stashed in a closet though.

335
meteor  Sep 15, 2015 • 8:50:06am

re: #9 jaunte

I got the same thing. Thought it was very disrespectful and not funny. If that’s the way his campaign is done, yes, they are going to lose votes.

336
jp_chgo  Sep 15, 2015 • 9:17:53am

re: #3 No Country For Old Haters

I can when no Christian I know in 2015 is homophobic.

Determining whether something is Christian or not based on Christians you know. Well, no Scotsman I know is homophobic!


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