A Fantastic Retro-Style Video From the Bird and the Bee: “Recreational Love”

All my girlfriends say
Music • Views: 45,568

YouTube

“Recreational Love” is out now! Download the album: http://smarturl.it/RecreationalLove
Stream the album: http://spoti.fi/1JZ1gdd

Starring Yohan Lee & Jaylee Chen
Directed by Joe Stakun
Cinematography by Eric Bader
Produced by Yoni Aviram
Production Design by Grace Alie

Follow The Bird and the Bee online:
http://thebirdandthebee.com/
http://facebook.com/thebirdandthebee
http://twitter.com/birdnbeemusic
http://twitter.com/gregkurstin
https://soundcloud.com/thebirdandthebee
http://smarturl.it/tbatbSpotify

http://vevo.ly/kR0WL1

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236 comments
1
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:40:00pm
2
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:46:46pm

I’m drinking alone, it looks like…

3
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:48:55pm

re: #2 Jenner7

I’m drinking alone, it looks like…

That’s Ok, that gal in the video may be alone too?

Freakin foreign sh*t is too deep for me, it’s just a shame when too deep comes in the form of a pop song.

4
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:50:08pm

Another bad week for the wingnuts. That makes what, 56 on a row now?

5
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:51:56pm

The great Georges Méliès doing his famous Leo Kottke impression:

6
BeachDem  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:53:07pm

As much as I love John Cleese and Ron Reagan, the odious SE Cupp was just too much to take. Ugh.

7
Stanley Sea Toujours  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:53:46pm

re: #2 Jenner7

I’m drinking alone, it looks like…

No.

8
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:54:11pm

re: #7 #CampaignZero

Yeaaaaahhh!

9
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:54:31pm

re: #2 Jenner7

I’m drinking alone, it looks like…

Nope redux. Foster’s Lager, mate.

10
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:56:23pm

re: #2 Jenner7

I’m drinking alone, it looks like…

George Thorogood And The Destroyers - I Drink Alone

11
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 7:59:17pm

re: #10 b.d.

[Embedded content]

Video

When I drink alone, I prefer to be by myself.

How can words be written better than that?

12
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:00:29pm

I’d bet Boehner is drinking alone tonight too

13
Belafon  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:02:20pm

re: #12 b.d.

I’d bet Boehner is drinking alone tonight too

When we look at the White House visitation logs for October 30, I want them to show that Boehner showed up at about 4pm, and didn’t leave until around 3am, with a note from security saying he had to be helped into the taxi.

14
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:02:20pm

re: #12 b.d.

I’d bet Boehner is drinking alone tonight too

Just bumming around town, looking at yachts and homes, while weeping softly to himself.

15
teleskiguy  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:02:37pm

re: #5 De Kolta Chair

Neurosonics Audiomedical Labs Inc.

16
William Lewis  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:02:53pm

re: #12 b.d.

I’d bet Boehner is drinking alone tonight too

Perhaps, but I’ll bet he’s happier than he’s been in awhile. Soon he’ll look at whatever fool takes the job and be able to say “Not my circus, not my monkeys”.

17
Eric The Fruit Bat  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:03:07pm

Nothing beats Orson Wells when he was three sheets to the wind doing the Paul Masson commercials.

Original Takes for Orson Welles Wine Commercial

18
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:07:34pm

re: #17 Eric The Fruit Bat

Nothing beats Orson Wells when he was three sheets to the wind doing the Paul Masson commercials.

[Embedded content]

Video

We will sell no wine before it’s time.

Hey! What time is it?

19
Iwouldprefernotto  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:08:34pm

re: #17 Eric The Fruit Bat

Nothing beats Orson Wells when he was three sheets to the wind doing the Paul Masson commercials.

[Embedded content]

Awesome. Even more so because I remember when they aired.

20
Mattand  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:09:33pm

re: #5 De Kolta Chair

Where the hell do you find this stuff???

21
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:09:49pm

Scandal is back on, yay! TWD will be here in 15 days. And skittles with beer is not a good idea.

22
Reality Based Steve  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:10:07pm

re: #17 Eric The Fruit Bat

Nothing beats Orson Wells when he was three sheets to the wind doing the Paul Masson commercials.

[Embedded content]

Video

ROLF…. My Dad and I still joke about those commercials…. What time it it Ernest? Time to ship this stuff out, we need the room Julio!

RBS

23
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:11:47pm

re: #22 Reality Based Steve

ROLF…. My Dad and I still joke about those commercials…. What time it it Ernest? Time to ship this stuff out, we need the room Julio!

RBS

Orson Wells sure was a strange bird.

24
Stanley Sea Toujours  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:12:33pm

re: #8 Jenner7

Yeaaaaahhh!

I’m getting ready to re-watch Fear of the Walking Dead. Last ep

25
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:15:42pm

re: #18 b.d.

We will sell no wine before it’s time.

Hey! What time is it?

“What’s the word?
Thunderbird!
What’s the price?
Forty twice!”

26
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:16:39pm

You’d think after 5 seasons, Olivia Pope would have a different ring tone on her phone.

27
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:17:21pm

Classic Orson Wells

John Candy as Orson Welles on the Billy Crystal Comedy Hour (1982)

:)

28
Reality Based Steve  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:17:44pm

re: #25 Higgs Boson’s Mate

“What’s the word?
Thunderbird!
What’s the price?
Forty twice!”

“What’s the Reason?
Grapes are out of season!”

RBS

29
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:18:51pm
30
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:19:25pm
31
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:24:01pm

Alright. I’m going to do it. I’ve been delaying the inevitable. Why do ya’ll call people here “Lizards”??

32
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:28:12pm

re: #31 Jenner7

Alright. I’m going to do it. I’ve been delaying the inevitable. Why do ya’ll call people here “Lizards”??

Because, er, football logo, and football team owners are lizard people, and ehr yeah, what is up with that anyway?

33
Stanley Sea Toujours  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:28:43pm

re: #32 De Kolta Chair

Because, er, football logo, and football team owners are lizard people, and ehr yeah, wassup with that anyway?

I don’t know either.

34
goddamnedfrank  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:29:03pm

re: #31 Jenner7

The Truth About LFG

35
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:30:02pm
36
Reality Based Steve  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:31:04pm

If you have to ask, you obviously don’t know about the series of tunnels connecting WalMarts that we travel through at night…. Therefore you are at risk of being eaten in your bed by 8 foot tall lizard men (and women) while you sleep.

Of course, if you live more than 20 miles from a Wal*mart you can sleep soundly.

Pleasant Dreams…

RBS

37
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:32:33pm

re: #31 Jenner7

Alright. I’m going to do it. I’ve been delaying the inevitable. Why do ya’ll call people here “Lizards”??

Put on these sunglasses

They Live (2/4) They Live Fight Scene - FULL (Explicit Language) (1988)

38
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:32:35pm

lolololololollolol

You guys are awesome.

39
Eric The Fruit Bat  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:33:02pm

re: #35 De Kolta Chair

This dude still looks like a Centauri.

40
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:34:50pm

re: #33 #CampaignZero

I don’t know either.

41
goddamnedfrank  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:39:10pm

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

The fun thing about that thread is that the vast majority of posters in it are now blocked. Two weeks after the Mission Accomplished speech, a full year before the site even had registration.

42
Pawn of the Oppressor  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:40:30pm

re: #27 b.d.

Classic Orson Wells

[Embedded content]

:)

Voice actor Maurice Lamarche has been my introduction to Orson Welles out-takes. I first learned of these things from him via the Nerdist podcast. Apparently Lamarche used to do the infamous Frozen Peas bit as a warm-up while recording Pinky and The Brain (The Brain is partly based on Orson Welles). I loved finding this whole other surly drunken side of a famous figure…

“Get me a jury and show me you you can say IN July and I’ll go down on you.”

43
goddamnedfrank  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:40:40pm

… and lawhawk is literally the only poster still around.

44
teleskiguy  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:45:00pm

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

The fun thing about that thread is that the vast majority of posters in it are now blocked.

Including @iowahawkblog.

45
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:45:47pm

The Band - Life Is a Carnival - 1994

46
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:46:10pm

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

Frank you. It all makes sense now. ;)

47
b.d.  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:49:07pm

re: #31 Jenner7

Alright. I’m going to do it. I’ve been delaying the inevitable. Why do ya’ll call people here “Lizards”??

Ok, you and the truthers really caught us

WARNING, WE ARE TOTALLY BUSTED NOW

Obama’s Reptilian Secret Service Spotted AIPAC Conference 3 Angles (HD)

48
Reality Based Steve  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:50:01pm

Night gang, I’m going to crawl off and find a warm rock to sleep under. Catch you all tomorrow or so.

RBS

49
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:53:05pm

re: #20 Mattand

Where the hell do you find this stuff???

I really don’t know

But seriously, half my goofy brain and half scumbag Silicon Valley Google gazillionaires who enable me to find this stuff. ;-)

50
Archangelus  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:57:08pm

re: #42 Pawn of the Oppressor

Voice actor Maurice Lamarche has been my introduction to Orson Welles out-takes. I first learned of these things from him via the Nerdist podcast. Apparently Lamarche used to do the infamous Frozen Peas bit as a warm-up while recording Pinky and The Brain (The Brain is partly based on Orson Welles). I loved finding this whole other surly drunken side of a famous figure…

“Get me a jury and show me you you can say IN July and I’ll go down on you.”

The Frozen Peas bit was done in the show itself:
yes always

51
Reality Based Steve  Sep 25, 2015 • 8:57:46pm

re: #45 De Kolta Chair

Embedded Image

[Embedded content]

Video

Automatic Upding for The Band….

And a little more Robbie Robertson to round out the night…

Robbie Robertson - Somewhere Down The Crazy River

52
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:02:31pm

Uh oh. Shit’s real now. #scandal

53
The War TARDIS  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:06:10pm

Found this:

Majority of Palestinians lose hope in 2 States, Await Israeli Ethnic Cleansing

A majority of Palestinians now oppose a two-state solution to the conflict with Israel, with only a third believing it is still a practical possibility, a poll released Monday found.
The poll, conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Research, found that 51 percent of Palestinians now oppose a two-state solution — up from 48 percent in June — while 48 percent still support it.

Scary part.

It found that an overwhelming 85 percent of Palestinians believe Israel’s long-term aspiration is “to annex the lands occupied in 1967 and expel their population or deny them their rights,” with only 15 percent believing that Israel intends to withdraw from the occupied territory.

I would like to know who here thinks the Two-State Solution is still viable. 60% of the West Bank is still occupied, and now Israel is restricting access to the Temple Mount.

54
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:10:54pm

re: #51 Reality Based Steve

Automatic Upding for The Band….

And a little more Robbie Robertson to round out the night…

Nice. Robbie should do another record with Daniel Lanois. Speaking of members of The Band, and not to name drop (but I will as it is my wont), I met Garth Hudson once, in Saugerties, New York, at a bbq party. We talked mostly about cars, particularly DeSotos. Nice guy with a very impressive beard. It goes without saying, he’s the best damned rock ‘n’ roll keyboardist who ever crossed over or under the 49th parallel.

Steve, ya know I do believe it’s time for me to leave. Later gator.

55
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:16:23pm

For you history buffs: What if Facebook existed in 1914? The news feed of the nations.

collegehumor.com

56
Jenner7  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:20:40pm

And, of course, I leave you with Jack Lemmon. Shirley ain’t bad either. Have a good weekend, Lizards. ;) Thanks for putting up with my buzzed/silly ass.

Video

57
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:21:45pm

re: #3 b.d.

That’s Ok, that gal in the video may be alone too?

Freakin foreign sh*t is too deep for me, it’s just a shame when too deep comes in the form of a pop song.

The gal in the video, Jaylee Chen, is based out of So Cal.
jayleechen.com

Ditto Yohan Lee. yohan-lee.com

She’s Chinese-American. He’s Korean-American.

And The Bird and the Bee are from LA.

58
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:30:22pm

re: #56 Jenner7

And, of course, I leave you with Jack Lemmon. Shirley ain’t bad either. Have a good weekend, Lizards. ;) Thanks for putting up with my buzzed/silly ass.

Imho opinion that is the greatest movie ending of all time. I can watch it over and over, and have. Funny how Billy Wilder is so cynical, yet his movies can be so schmaltzy. ;-)

59
De Kolta Chair  Sep 25, 2015 • 9:36:13pm
Senator Rand Paul discusses his political future with his top aide Shep
60
goddamnedfrank  Sep 25, 2015 • 10:48:11pm

Peter King: Boehner exit means ‘the crazies have taken over the party’

That’s it, that’s the joke.

61
piratedan  Sep 25, 2015 • 11:53:27pm

re: #60 goddamnedfrank

well, guess it’s better late than never for those guys to get a clue… but I guess this is what happens when you take people like Bachmann and Gohmert seriously.

62
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 25, 2015 • 11:53:37pm

re: #42 Pawn of the Oppressor

Voice actor Maurice Lamarche has been my introduction to Orson Welles out-takes. I first learned of these things from him via the Nerdist podcast. Apparently Lamarche used to do the infamous Frozen Peas bit as a warm-up while recording Pinky and The Brain (The Brain is partly based on Orson Welles). I loved finding this whole other surly drunken side of a famous figure…

“Get me a jury and show me you you can say IN July and I’ll go down on you.”

A few weeks back, when the Younger Boy got LaMarche’s autograph, LaMarche did the Forzen Peas bit while signing!

63
Dr Lizardo  Sep 25, 2015 • 11:59:42pm

re: #62 Blind Frog Belly White

Maurice LaMarche did the voicework in this scene (uncredited) from Ed Wood.

Ed Wood Jr Meets Orson Welles

64
Decatur Deb  Sep 26, 2015 • 2:59:48am

Still travelling, with an unfamiliar keyboard in a sleeping house, in an unfamiliar town, in the dark. Picked a hell of a week to be away.

65
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Sep 26, 2015 • 3:02:27am

re: #64 Decatur Deb

Still travelling, with an unfamiliar keyboard in a sleeping house, in an unfamiliar town, in the dark. Picked a hell of a week to be away.

Good beginning for a mystery novel.

66
BeenHereAwhile  Sep 26, 2015 • 3:05:41am

re: #25 Higgs Boson’s Mate

“What’s the word?
Thunderbird!
What’s the price?
Forty twice!”

“Up every morning at the crack of dawn
Nights as short as the days are long
Life turned out to be another magazine

I’m Livin’ with a stranger now
Girl i knew got away somehow
She went out with two bit gasoline
I wanna go,back - you know what i mean ah

When the word was Thunderbird
And the price was forty twice
Drinkin’ wine and lovin’ you was fun

Now but love turned out to be a passin’ thing
Different bird of a different wing
Some damn fool put a dollar twenty nine
On a jug of Thunderbird wine”

Billy Joe Shaver

67
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:05:21am

Missed one more condition: and if you don’t use these words in a concrete sense.

Freedom From Religion Foundation is an OK name. ;)

68
Romantic Heretic  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:24:43am

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

Ya know, I had often wondered about that. I also learned why we use the term ‘gamy buttocks’.

69
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:27:18am

Bill Donohue still has no article up on the Pope’s speech.

70
lawhawk  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:32:27am

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

… and lawhawk is literally the only poster still around.

Last of the Mohicans. Started posting October 2001 (going on 14 years). Haven’t stopped. And haven’t regretted posting here either.

71
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:50:52am

re: #70 lawhawk

Last of the Mohicans. Started posting October 2001 (going on 14 years). Haven’t stopped. And haven’t regretted posting here either.

So how’s the view from the top of the mountain?

/

72
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:55:41am

re: #70 lawhawk

Last of the Mohicans. Started posting October 2001 (going on 14 years). Haven’t stopped. And haven’t regretted posting here either.

You evolved with the times, whereas those who didn’t want to outgrow the stone age period went the way of Dodo. Darwinism in action ;)

73
William Lewis  Sep 26, 2015 • 5:56:39am

re: #67 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Missed one more condition: and if you don’t use these words in a concrete sense.

Freedom From Religion Foundation is an OK name. ;)

I dunno. In my time in Madison, they were as bad as the fundy’s, just a different form of cra-cra-crazy.

74
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:00:38am

re: #73 William Lewis

I dunno. In my time in Madison, they were as bad as the fundy’s, just a different form of cra-cra-crazy.

I don’t know about that, but they are fighting a good fight and that counts most.

75
lawhawk  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:04:17am

re: #72 Nyet

I abided by my host’s rules. If there were topics Charles didn’t want to delve into - abortion for much of the early history of the site - I didn’t go there. I avoided certain topics and discussions and tried to warn off people from making extreme kinds of statements. Yet there were folks who thought that the site was theirs, not Charles’. And they’ve since found homes at stalker sites and the like.

Registration definitely was a step in the right direction in cleaning up the worst offenders, trolls, spammers, and genuinely hostile and unstable types. Throw in moderators who could help when Charles was away and things improved further.

Far too many people stuck with the anti-Islam nature that brought them here, thinking that the site was Islamophobic (posters were, but Charles wasn’t). And we know some of the more infamous types who were here before going elsewhere to spread their insane hate - Pam Geller for one.

For those who stuck around, the trick was realizing that Islam wasn’t an enemy. Groups that killed in its name were. Yet there are those who are hoping for a clash of civilizations and global conflict that never ends (or ends only after we’ve nuked much of the world in the process). And if these folks have their way, then they are no better than the very enemy they claim to hate. They will end up killing far more innocents than the terrorists would have (and further ignores that Islamic terrorists have killed far more Muslims than any other group anywhere because they’re not sufficiently Muslim enough for the terror groups).

76
Shiplord Kirel  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:15:32am

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

The Truth About LFG

I was here then, using the name “atomic conspiracy,” but did not post on that thread. It was that thread that inspired me to call myself “Shiplord Kirel,” for the second-in-command of the invading Lizard alien space fleet in Harry Turtledove’s World War series.

77
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:16:53am

re: #75 lawhawk

Indeed, the Islamophobic nature of the old LGF was the deal for most old Lizards. The slow break from Islamophobia (which started with expulsion of the most radical wing - the admirers of the European fascist movements like Geller, the Gates of Vienna crowd, Spencer, Fawstin, Fjordman - and proceeded to a slow cleansing of the more moderate forms) was a natural deal-breaker for them.

78
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:33:31am

re: #74 Nyet

I don’t know about that, but they are fighting a good fight and that counts most.

No, they’re not. The ACLU can be said to ‘fight the good fight” (although I often don’t agree with them). The “Freedom From Religion” crowd are relatively militant atheists whose disrespect of any public expression of faith makes fundie orgs stronger by providing examples for them to point to.

79
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:35:16am

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

No, they’re not. The ACLU can be said to ‘fight the good fight” (although I often don’t agree with them). The “Freedom From Religion” crowd are relatively militant atheists whose disrespect of any public expression of faith makes fundie orgs stronger by providing examples for them to point to.

A wingnut would say so, yes.

80
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:37:46am

Wingnuts usually don’t distinguish between any public expression of faith and religious displays on public property (as long as those are Christian displays, that is). Par for the course.

81
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:49:33am

re: #80 Nyet

Wingnuts usually don’t distinguish between any public expression of faith and religious displays on public property (as long as those are Christian displays, that is). Par for the course.

The foundation you praise does really make that distinction either and, given that they tend to be located in blue counties, most of the religious people they go after are not wingnuts. Remember that not all devout Christians are wingnuts.

82
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:52:07am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

The foundation you praise does really make that distinction

Great, so what’s the problem?

either and, given that they tend to be located in blue counties, most of the religious people they go after are not wingnuts. Remember that not all devout Christians are wingnuts.

You mean, all those nice people are oh so liberal but still have a trouble with respecting the separation of church and state?

83
Mattand  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:54:08am

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

No, they’re not. The ACLU can be said to ‘fight the good fight” (although I often don’t agree with them). The “Freedom From Religion” crowd are relatively militant atheists whose disrespect of any public expression of faith makes fundie orgs stronger by providing examples for them to point to.

Americans in general, and many conservatives in particular, think atheists are ‘militant’ because like a lot of groups in the minority, they’re pushing back and speaking up after decades of silence.

And what you’re conveniently overlooking is the fact that many of those courts cases involve reminding our various governments that our Constitution is secular by design.

Hope that wasn’t too militant for anyone.

84
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:55:09am

Kim Davis ❤s u, Dark.

85
Mattand  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:56:22am

Sigh. I only singed only to see if any Philly lizards were reporting on-the-ground conditions for Pope-pocalypse.

South Jersey seems to be okay, traffic-wise, FWIW.

86
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 6:59:15am

If the Pope is such a nice and humble guy as some claim, maybe he should’ve gone out of the way not to cause all the trouble to simple folks?

87
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:04:00am

re: #83 Mattand

Americans in general, and many conservatives in particular, think atheists are ‘militant’ because like a lot of groups in the minority, they’re pushing back and speaking up after decades of silence.

And what you’re conveniently overlooking is the fact that many of those courts cases involve reminding our various governments that our Constitution is secular by design.

Hope that wasn’t too militant for anyone.

I think many still are quiet about it. I don’t wear my agnosticism as a badge exactly. I’m open about it here on LGF sure but it’s not something i really talk alot about others about.

88
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:16:32am

There is a type of atheists that I would call fundamentalist atheists - for them it’s a matter of blind faith, and they’re as dogmatic, and crude, and often as ignorant as any religious fundies. Just in case, no, I’m not thinking of Dawkins, whose views are nuanced enough to have created the Dawkins scale of belief strength.

I’m rather thinking of Madalyn Murray O’Hair here, “the most hated woman in the US”. From what I read, her views lacked any kind of nuance. Though even then, as much as she was unpleasant as a person, her actions helped to expand religious freedom in the US (Murray v. Curlett).

Militant atheists though? I guess any atheist who speaks their mind is militant to some folks - merely because an atheist is speaking.

89
A Cranky One  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:22:06am
90
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:28:29am

re: #84 Nyet

Kim Davis ❤s u, Dark.

I doubt that very much, since I’m one of the people who thought it proper she be jailed and I still think she’s being a nut.

91
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:30:20am

re: #82 Nyet

Great, so what’s the problem?

You mean, all those nice people are oh so liberal but still have a trouble with respecting the separation of church and state?

Sentence should have read “The foundation you praise does not really make that distinction”.

Many devout people are conservative, but not crazy about it.

92
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:32:44am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

I doubt that very much, since I’m one of the people who thought it proper she be jailed and I still think she’s being a nut.

Yet both of you seem intent on painting defense of religious freedom (which includes upholding the separation of church and state and freedom from govt-imposed religion) as attacks on freedom of religion.

93
Eric The Fruit Bat  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:33:42am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Sounds like she should be jailed for altering legal documents, but that I think is more in Kentucky’s hands than the Fed’s.

Just because your eternal soul maybe cleansed doesn’t mean your temporal actions have been wiped clean by your religious (not legal) act of repentance.

94
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:33:56am

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Sentence should have read “The foundation you praise does not really make that distinction”.

Since it does make this distinction, you should have stuck with the truthful typo rather than insisting on a correctly typed untruth.

95
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:35:04am

re: #92 Nyet

Yet both of you seem intent on painting defense of religious freedom (which includes upholding the separation of church and state and freedom from govt-imposed religion) as attacks on freedom of religion.

No, I’m saying a particular organization is more interested in attacking religion than upholding religious freedom. Earlier, I made clear that I did not feel that was the case for the ACLU.

96
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:37:16am

re: #93 Eric The Fruit Bat

Sounds like she should be jailed for altering legal documents, but that I think is more in Kentucky’s hands than the Fed’s.

Just because your eternal soul maybe cleansed doesn’t mean your temporal actions have been wiped clean by your religious (not legal) act of repentance.

She has probably infringed state law by using altered documents. Also, KRS says the licenses need to be signed by the clerk, or her deputy, or in their absence, the county judge-executive.

97
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:42:06am

I don’t know too much about the particular foundation being discussed so I can’t really comment but I do think that too often wanting freedom from religion is misconstrued as militancy.

98
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:42:33am

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

No, I’m saying a particular organization is more interested in attacking religion than upholding religious freedom. Earlier, I made clear that I did not feel that was the case for the ACLU.

Nope, you wrote that they are folks who disrespect any public expression of faith. Even though their fight is against such expressions only when (they feel that) they encroach on the separation between church and state.

99
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:44:23am

Kenya set to BLOW UP £15million Norwegian cargo ship after ‘white powder’ was discovered on board because it is the country’s policy to sink any vessel caught with drugs in its waters

The trucks on the ship have what I believe is a Toyota logo, but the Infantry Fighting Vehicles are from your part of the world, Sergey:

100
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:46:43am

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I don’t know too much about the particular foundation being discussed so I can’t really comment but I do think that too often wanting freedom from religion is misconstrued as militancy.

On the “ideological” front they can be as problematic as any org - sometimes supporting the wrong people (think ACLU/Snowden), sometimes saying the things they could have phrased differently - but the legal part of their mission is righteous, AFAIC.

101
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:53:03am

re: #100 Nyet

On the “ideological” front they can be as problematic as any org - sometimes supporting the wrong people (think ACLU/Snowden), sometimes saying the things they could have phrased differently - but the legal part of their mission is righteous, AFAIC.

Right. That’s what I would have thought.

102
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:56:56am

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

I was here then, using the name “atomic conspiracy,” but did not post on that thread. It was that thread that inspired me to call myself “Shiplord Kirel,” for the second-in-command of the invading Lizard alien space fleet in Harry Turtledove’s World War series.

I wondered why that nick sounded familiar to me.

103
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:58:54am

re: #85 Mattand

Sigh. I only singed only to see if any Philly lizards were reporting on-the-ground conditions for Pope-pocalypse.

South Jersey seems to be okay, traffic-wise, FWIW.

I don’t see lots of people yet, but my apartment points the wrong way. I can hear the mass though - even with my windows closed.

104
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 7:59:51am

re: #86 Nyet

If the Pope is such a nice and humble guy as some claim, maybe he should’ve gone out of the way not to cause all the trouble to simple folks?

I’m not sure that the Pope insisted on all this. From what I have heard part of this is the US Secret Service, and part of this has been the Mayor of Philadelphia.

105
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:00:03am

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

I should note that the fact US intelligence sources were involved in the stopping of a ship carrying guns in Kenya is decisive proof that Barack Obama hates the 2nd Amendment.

106
Ace-o-aces  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:02:59am
107
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:04:14am

re: #93 Eric The Fruit Bat

Sounds like she should be jailed for altering legal documents, but that I think is more in Kentucky’s hands than the Fed’s.

Just because your eternal soul maybe cleansed doesn’t mean your temporal actions have been wiped clean by your religious (not legal) act of repentance.

“All my sins is washed away”

108
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:05:41am

Just as a historical side note, here’s a spat between 2 fundy atheists, the late C. Dennis McKinsey - the ignorant author of the completely useless The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy and a Stalinist - and M.M.O’Hair. McKinsey wanted a booth at some AA convention and the letter he got from MM was a hoot:

Click to Reveal

Dennis McKinsey. Thank you for your inquiry. American Atheists feel it is reactionary to do battle on the grounds of the religious. The Bible needs to be thrown into the trash. Your continuing jousting with segments thereof gives authentication to that with which you do joust. One does NOT argue with one’s nightmares. The exercise is as the French say, inutile. The Convention in Kentucky has no interest in this at all. Therefore, we will not authorize you to “set up a booth” to publicize and distribute copies of your publication, which drags Atheists back to the Bible—for no good reason. If you want to set up a booth, anywhere, you will need to pay your own way. You will not be permitted to use the facilities for which we have paid. We will not distribute your literature, or give it a place on our book stands. There is no personal or other animosity in this position which we take with respect to your BIBLICAL ERRANCY. There are tactics one uses in a battle and we decline to use these tactics. They take away from the positive thrust of Atheism and the programs which we are trying to use to give Atheists a voice in the culture, on their own, with their own weltanshaung—not in a religious framework. We have instituted an extensive educational program to wean Atheists away, as fast as we can, from that which you promote: a return to the Bible. Enclosed is a $6 check for a subscription to your letter, which will be filed in the American Atheist Library and Archives, Inc. here. Advise cost of back issues and if they have been bound. We keep all Atheist publications on file, no matter what the nature.

109
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:06:13am

re: #104 Feline Fearless Leader

I’m not sure that the Pope insisted on all this. From what I have heard part of this is the US Secret Service, and part of this has been the Mayor of Philadelphia.

The Pope chooses the places to visit.

110
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:08:01am

re: #109 Nyet

The Pope chooses the places to visit.

But he wouldn’t see much of the world if he only went to places without crazies, and he’d never be able to visit the US.

111
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:10:16am

re: #109 Nyet

The Pope chooses the places to visit.

Yes. But I am more thinking about the level of disruption such a visit causes. I don’t believe the security in Washington, D.C. or New York City led to the closing of major bridges two days before his arrival. Towards the Ben Franklin Parkway being closed down, this happens fairly often since it is used as a open air venue for parades, concerts, etc.

But not with the erection of massive numbers of concrete barriers, security checkpoints, and PA National Guard being deployed.

112
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:10:31am

re: #86 Nyet

If the Pope is such a nice and humble guy as some claim, maybe he should’ve gone out of the way not to cause all the trouble to simple folks?

Yes, he could have visited Mariposa, CA, or Van Horn, Texas, which would have troubled far fewer people though the impact might not have been the same.

113
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:11:21am

re: #112 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Yes, he could have visited Mariposa, CA, or Van Horn, Texas, which would have troubled far fewer people though the impact might not have been the same.

The image of the Pope visiting Lubbock and causing many ‘plodey heads makes me chuckle.

114
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:14:40am

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

But he wouldn’t see much of the world if he only went to places without crazies, and he’d never be able to visit the US.

In today’s world it’s not necessary for him to travel to get the word out there. Plus some cities are more fit for such visits (because they are used to it and there are the necessary infrastructure and procedures already in place), and some cities aren’t.

Note that I’m not saying that he shouldn’t have traveled to Philly. He has as much right to it as anyone, certainly as other head of states. Only: it does conflict with the image some people want to create around this particular head of state.

115
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:14:47am

re: #113 Feline Fearless Leader

The image of the Pope visiting Lubbock and causing many ‘plodey heads makes me chuckle.

Same effect in Midlands-Odessa, Poteet, Kingsville, Bishop, George West…

116
ObserverArt  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:14:52am

re: #86 Nyet

If the Pope is such a nice and humble guy as some claim, maybe he should’ve gone out of the way not to cause all the trouble to simple folks?

Can I ask for a little clarification Sergey?

What do you mean exactly by “cause all the trouble to simple folks?”

Well…it doesn’t have to be exact…

117
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:16:29am
118
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:17:01am

re: #116 ObserverArt

Can I ask for a little clarification Sergey?

What do you mean exactly by “cause all the trouble to simple folks?”

Well…it doesn’t have to be exact…

All the closed roads etc. - what Mattand called the Pope-pocalypse.

119
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:17:24am

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I wonder if anyone’s ever told him about Arrested Development. From the day he became Pope, I always thought Francis was a dead ringer for Jeffrey Tambor.

120
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:19:14am

re: #118 Nyet

If Francis was coming to town every weekend to grab a cheese steak sandwich it would be a thing.
They’d do it for Randolph Scott.

121
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:20:04am

re: #114 Nyet

I hear you but I maintain that it’s good the Bush the Younger and Obama administrations have had foreign leaders visit US cities other than DC and New York. The point of the policy is to introduce more of America to the world, and I think the benefits of that are worth the cost of the disruptions incurred. And I say that as someone who worked in downtown Chicago the week of the NATO Summit back in 2012.

122
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:21:33am
123
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:22:11am

re: #122 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Try again, he beat you because your ideas suck.

124
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:23:25am

re: #118 Nyet

All the closed roads etc. - what Mattand called the Pope-pocalypse.

I think the closures and such are less for security than as an attempt to safely handle the expected monstrous crowd. Though there is some thought now that the state of preparations is going to make a lot of people decide not to show.

Though I am seeing larger numbers of people streaming in towards the checkpoints now. Including a large organized group with banners, matching t-shirts, and a band. From the flags they were carrying I would say they were Dominicans.

125
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:23:40am

re: #120 Higgs Boson’s Mate

If Francis was coming to town every weekend to grab a cheese steak sandwich it would be a thing.
They’d do it for Randolph Scott.

Randolph Scott!

126
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:24:48am

Lindsey Graham asks the VVS15 crowd “What else floats in water.” Someone screams “A BUICK!”

127
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:25:05am

So this was odd. A very casual FAcebook friend I have- we met on an Asperger’s Facebook group(no longer a member too many MRA type assholes) messages me today. Goes on a diatribe about how frustrating it is that guys have to often take the first step in dating and that’s honestly something that frustrates me too but this guy is obsessed with it.

128
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:26:20am

re: #124 Feline Fearless Leader

I think the closures and such are less for security than as an attempt to safely handle the expected monstrous crowd. Though there is some thought now that the state of preparations is going to make a lot of people decide not to show.

Though I am seeing larger numbers of people streaming in towards the checkpoints now. Including a large organized group with banners, matching t-shirts, and a band. From the flags they were carrying I would say they were Dominicans.

Didn’t know there was a big sized Dominican community in Philly.

129
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:26:58am

I am honestly surprised Lindsay got invited to this thing.

130
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:28:13am

re: #128 HappyWarrior

Didn’t know there was a big sized Dominican community in Philly.

Might not have been locals. There is a large enough Puerto Rican community that they have their own parade every year.

131
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:30:06am

re: #130 Feline Fearless Leader

Might not have been locals. There is a large enough Puerto Rican community that they have their own parade every year.

Oh okay. I think DC has a decent sized community. There’s a lovely family owned Dominican place I went to eat one night. Good food and very friendly people.

132
Dark_Falcon  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:30:21am

re: #129 HappyWarrior

I am honestly surprised Lindsay got invited to this thing.

He’s an Army lawyer in the Reserves, so he promotes Values by helping create the legal justifications for when DoD blows various Islamist terrorists to pieces.

/not kidding.

133
Mattand  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:31:24am

re: #116 ObserverArt

Can I ask for a little clarification Sergey?

What do you mean exactly by “cause all the trouble to simple folks?”

Well…it doesn’t have to be exact…

Just to rehash what FFF said: basically, all of downtown Philly and most of the University City area in West Philly (Penn, Drexel) have slowly been shut down over the last week. Cars being towed; checkpoint going up everywhere; and (my major complaint) mass transit being radically altered.

As of last night, many major highways and roads into Center City (with the exception of I95) are closed until Monday, along with the Ben Franklin Bridge (which goes right into downtown.)

The Philly Inquirer has a great info clearinghouse page here.

A lot of this was driven by the Secret Service trying to lock down as much shit as possible for security, but IMO, it comes off as Martial Law Lite. The mass transit stuff is a reaction to when the Phils won the Series in ‘08, and the agencies made very little planning to deal with the crowds that flooded the city for the parade.

134
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:31:37am

re: #120 Higgs Boson’s Mate

If Francis was coming to town every weekend to grab a cheese steak sandwich it would be a thing.
They’d do it for Randolph Scott.

It reminded me of how the roads close when the Russian Patriarch rides somewhere.

It’s not about the security measures - the Security Service must do what it must, and every church should have a lightning-rod.

They would have done it for Mother Theresa too, and just as well there would have been a certain incongruity with her image.

135
ObserverArt  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:33:28am

re: #118 Nyet

All the closed roads etc. - what Mattand called the Pope-pocalypse.

I understand a little more now as I’ve come down through the thread. Thanks.

Regarding the ACLU…I’ve never quite figured out why people, especially conservatives, have such a hard time with them as an organization. I see them as an extension of our laws…a sort of overseer of those laws.

To me they are out to protect everybody in regard to the laws and that is what causes most to not like them. But the laws are for everybody no matter how despicable. That’s why I have no problem with them dealing with the Snowden case. Also why I understood their position in the famous Skokie versus the Nazis being able to demonstrate.

Do they screw up…yes. But I’d rather have them than not.

And I should think a good conservative would be fine with them too.

136
Charles Johnson  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:33:30am

Chuck Johnson has been hit with a cease and desist notice from a Scott Walker PAC: m.facebook.com

137
Mattand  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:34:12am

re: #124 Feline Fearless Leader

I think the closures and such are less for security than as an attempt to safely handle the expected monstrous crowd. Though there is some thought now that the state of preparations is going to make a lot of people decide not to show.

Though I am seeing larger numbers of people streaming in towards the checkpoints now. Including a large organized group with banners, matching t-shirts, and a band. From the flags they were carrying I would say they were Dominicans.

I live near Woodcrest station, one of the few PATCO (Jersey-to-Philly high speed rail) stops that is open today. Plenty of parking. Almost a ghost town, considering the event People may be hitching rides to the various stations via bus or carpool.

Francis is supposed to celebrate a Mass at the Art Museum (technically the traffic oval in front of it) tomorrow, so the crowds may pick up substantially.

138
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:35:06am

re: #133 Mattand

Just to rehash what FFF said: basically, all of downtown Philly and most of the University City area in West Philly (Penn, Drexel) have slowly been shut down over the last week. Cars being towed; checkpoint going up everywhere; and (my major complaint) mass transit being radically altered.

As of last night, many major highways and roads into Center City (with the exception of I95) are closed until Monday, along with the Ben Franklin Bridge (which goes right into downtown.)

The Philly Inquirer has a great info clearinghouse page here.

A lot of this was driven by the Secret Service trying to lock down as much shit as possible for security, but IMO, it comes off as Martial Law Lite. The mass transit stuff is a reaction to when the Phils won the Series in ‘08, and the agencies made very little planning to deal with the crowds that flooded the city of the parade.

It does give a Martial Law vibe here on the outer reaches. Concrete barriers everywhere* and pairs of men in camo uniforms on every street corner or positioned behind barriers blocking a street off.

* - Also every porta-potty from a 50-mile radius it seems.

139
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:36:59am

re: #136 Charles Johnson

Chuck Johnson has been hit with a cease and desist notice from a Scott Walker PAC: m.facebook.com

roh roh raggy.

140
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:37:33am

Oh - an additional note. The uniformed troops I am seeing are *not* carrying weapons. At least openly. A few backpacks about, but that would be small arms only, if that.

141
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:37:43am

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

He’s an Army lawyer in the Reserves, so he promotes Values by helping create the legal justifications for when DoD blows various Islamist terrorists to pieces.

/not kidding.

Well there’s lots of those. I am honestly surprised since Lindsay to his credit did tell Kim Davis that she needs to do her damn job.

142
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:38:48am

re: #135 ObserverArt

I understand a little more now as I’ve come down through the thread. Thanks.

Regarding the ACLU…I’ve never quite figured out why people, especially conservatives, have such a hard time with them as an organization. I see them as an extension of our laws…a sort of overseer of those laws.

To me they are out to protect everybody in regard to the laws and that is what causes most to not like them. But the laws are for everybody no matter how despicable. That’s why I have no problem with them dealing with the Snowden case. Also why I understood their position in the famous Skokie versus the Nazis being able to demonstrate.

Do they screw up…yes. But I’d rather have them than not.

And I should think a good conservative would be fine with them too.

I always saw them as the living personification of the quote often attributed to Voltare- I may not like what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it.

143
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:39:44am

re: #135 ObserverArt

The problem was when an ACLU official defended Snowden in an article - it’s different than legal representation (which Snowden is naturally entitled to). I don’t think it diminishes what ACLU does. Same goes for Amnesty International, HRW etc.

144
Mattand  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:40:09am

re: #138 Feline Fearless Leader

It does give a Martial Law vibe here on the outer reaches. Concrete barriers everywhere* and pairs of men in camo uniforms on every street corner or positioned behind barriers blocking a street off.

* - Also every porta-potty from a 50-mile radius it seems.

I met the better half for lunch on Thursday and took a little tour. It’s a great idea, but I’ve never seen so many port-a-potties in my life, LOL.

As for the armed police everywhere: I was walking past 17th and the Parkway and saw a woman in a headscarf talking to about 6 counter-terrorism dudes just hanging out. Couldn’t hear the conversation, but she was smiling and saying something.

To a man, everyone one of those guys had a “I’d fucking drop you now if I didn’t have to do the paperwork” scowl on their faces.

145
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:42:48am

Three military guys are throwing red meat to the crowd during a “national security” forum at VVS:

sigh…

146
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:45:39am

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

Three military guys are throwing red meat to the crowd during a “national security” forum at VVS:

[Embedded content]

sigh…

These guys piss me off to no end. My cousin’s husband is a former Marine and an atheist at that. I respect the service of these guys but they have no idea what they’re talking about in regards to gays and they are equally wrong to promote the idea that the military is a Christian institution.

147
ObserverArt  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:45:52am

re: #133 Mattand

Just to rehash what FFF said: basically, all of downtown Philly and most of the University City area in West Philly (Penn, Drexel) have slowly been shut down over the last week. Cars being towed; checkpoint going up everywhere; and (my major complaint) mass transit being radically altered.

As of last night, many major highways and roads into Center City (with the exception of I95) are closed until Monday, along with the Ben Franklin Bridge (which goes right into downtown.)

The Philly Inquirer has a great info clearinghouse page here.

A lot of this was driven by the Secret Service trying to lock down as much shit as possible for security, but IMO, it comes off as Martial Law Lite. The mass transit stuff is a reaction to when the Phils won the Series in ‘08, and the agencies made very little planning to deal with the crowds that flooded the city of the parade.

It does sound heavy handed and not very well coordinated by all the city agencies, like it is influenced by 9/11 thinking. Is there cooperation in local agencies, or is everything little fiefdoms that would rather war with each other than work it out?

148
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:48:45am

gonna get really insane now:

149
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:48:52am

re: #147 ObserverArt

It does sound heavy handed and not very well coordinated by all the city agencies, like it is influenced by 9/11 thinking. Is there cooperation in local agencies, or is everything little fiefdoms that would rather war with each other than work it out?

I have no idea. But I can imagine the scope of the political explosion if they had skimped and then had an event occur due to something obvious,

150
Doofus  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:49:10am

I’m safe out here in the country from Pope-pocalypse, or am I?!

151
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:50:17am

re: #136 Charles Johnson

To recap: multiple sources within Scott Walker campaign told me Scott Walker PAC adviser Brad Dayspring was pushing the rumor that Walker campaign manager Rick Wiley received a blow job.

Wait, receiving a blowjob can still cause a scandal, and there are Clinton & Bush running for President. What year is this again? ////

152
ObserverArt  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:50:25am

re: #143 Nyet

The problem was when an ACLU official defended Snowden in an article - it’s different than legal representation (which Snowden is naturally entitled to). I don’t think it diminishes what ACLU does. Same goes for Amnesty International, HRW etc.

Oh yeah, I sort of remember that now. What I can’t remember is if he wrote the article as a representative of the ACLU or as an individual that happened to work for the ACLU.

153
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:51:05am

Todd is missing!!11!!

154
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:51:14am

re: #150 Doofus

I’m safe out here in the country from Pope-pocalypse, or am I?!

Until communion becomes the consumption of any and all flesh.
//

155
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:51:19am

re: #148 Backwoods_Sleuth

gonna get really insane now:

[Embedded content]

How fun.

156
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:51:42am

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

Todd is missing!!11!!

[Embedded content]

His rentboy kept him busy last night.

157
Skip Intro  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:52:21am

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

Todd is missing!!11!!

[Embedded content]

Maybe he drowned in that huge coffee cup of his.

158
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:52:51am

re: #155 HappyWarrior

How fun.

This woman is nuts.
And dangerous.

159
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:53:20am

re: #152 ObserverArt

Oh yeah, I sort of remember that now. What I can’t remember is if he wrote the article as a representative of the ACLU or as an individual that happened to work for the ACLU.

It’s on their site, among many other pieces of Snowdeniana.

160
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:53:30am

Re: Philadelphia

I took a walk late last night into the city and it had a Christmas Eve vibe, being so quiet. When the Phillies had their parade in 2008, the El stops were so jammed with people that the trains had to virtually crawl into the stations because the people were jammed up to the edge of the platforms. I can also imagine thousands of cars pouring into the city with their drivers looking for places to park while the sidewalks were jammed with pedestrians, so I could understand the traffic box. And while publicly the the concern was the pope’s security, I guess they didn’t want to tell the public that they were afraid of another Boston Marathon type attack.

161
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:54:08am

re: #158 Backwoods_Sleuth

This woman is nuts.
And dangerous.

Sure is.

162
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:54:52am
When millennials translate their political ideals into public policy, the future will be more in the spirit of 1776 than 1984, and Snowden will assume his place in American history as whistleblower and patriot. The establishment might not like him now, but one day, it will erect a monument honoring him.

I support ACLU despite this.

163
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:55:15am

I wonder if the VVS folks reached out to the Pope?

164
retired cynic  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:56:08am

re: #158 Backwoods_Sleuth

This woman is nuts.
And dangerous.

How can you stand to watch that? I’d be curled up in a ball, screaming.

165
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:56:17am

good grief

166
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:56:29am

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

Obammer blocked him on Twitter.

167
ObserverArt  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:56:38am

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

Three military guys are throwing red meat to the crowd during a “national security” forum at VVS:

[Embedded content]

sigh…

This calls for a a song that I post in such cases…

XTC - Generals And Majors

Generals and Majors

Song by XTC

Generals and Majors ah ah
They’re never too far
From battlefields so glorious
Out in a world of their own
They’ll never come down
Till once again victorious

Generals and Majors always
Seem so unhappy ‘less they got a war

Generals and Majors ah ah
Like never before are tired of being actionless.

Calling Generals and Majors
Generals and Majors everywhere
Calling Generals and Majors
Your World War III is drawing near

Generals and Majors ah ah
They’re never too far
Away from men who made the grade
Out in a world of their own
They’ll never come down
Until the battle’s lost or made

Generals and Majors ah ah
Like never before, are tired of being in the shade

168
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:56:46am

re: #162 Nyet

I support ACLU despite this.

You’re never gonna agree with someone or a group 100% of the time. Daniel Ellsburg is wrong about Snowden too but that doesn’t diminish the importance of the Pentagon Papers.

169
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 8:57:23am

re: #165 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

good grief

Then you can start damning Jews and Eastern Christians since a lot of those were killed in the Crusades oto.

170
SteveMcGaziBolaGate  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:00:06am

re: #162 Nyet

“When millennials translate their political ideals into public policy, the future will be more in the spirit of 1776 than 1984, and Snowden will assume his place in American history as whistleblower and patriot. The establishment might not like him now, but one day, it will erect a monument honoring him.”

Funny how the first part sounds like something a teabagger would say, and they would hate Snowden.

171
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:00:22am

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Then you can start damning Jews and Eastern Christians since a lot of those were killed in the Crusades oto.

Details, details.

172
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:00:53am

re: #171 Blind Frog Belly White

Details, details.

I can’t help it. I was a history major.

173
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:02:24am

re: #170 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Dunno about teabags hating him. The libertarian types prolly outright support him, and the rest hate Obama, so…

174
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:03:56am

Hmm, speaking of history, today is the 70th anniversary of the first US casualty in the Vietnam War.

French forces including newly-arrived Gaullist and recently released Vichy-colonial troops, storm the Việt Minh headquarters in Saigon. American Lieutenant-Colonel A. Peter Dewey, an officer with OSS Deer Team which formerly supported the Việt Minh and is now fighting alongside the French, is killed, becoming the first US casualty in what will become known as the Vietnam War.

From: talk.consimworld.com

175
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:04:12am

Daleidan took out Boehner. I can’t imagine his replacement being better.

176
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:04:46am

oh, and during her “1400 years of Islamic history in five minutes”, she says Muslims have killed by the sword more than 270 million people…

177
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:05:06am

re: #175 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Daleidan took out Boehner. I can’t imagine his replacement being better.

Hey, no hacking on GOP Congressional job creation!
;p

178
Skip Intro  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:05:11am

Thank Dog Bloom County is back!

179
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:06:02am

re: #176 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

oh and, and during her “1400 years of Islamic history in five minutes”, she says Muslims have killed by the sword more than 270 million people…

There’s an article about that…

littlegreenfootballs.com

180
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:09:12am

sigh

181
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:11:12am

I need a drink…

182
Skip Intro  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:11:44am

Scalia explains why the death penalty is no big deal.

Unlike such other hard Catholic doctrines as the prohibition of birth control and of abortion, this is not a moral position that the church has always or indeed ever maintained,” Scalia said. In the modern world, he said, “it seems to me that the more Christian a country is, the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral. … I attribute that to the fact that, for the believing Christian, death is no big deal.”

Especially when you’re not the one being put to death.

sfchronicle.com

183
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:13:44am

re: #182 Skip Intro

Scalia explains why the death penalty is no big deal.

Especially when you’re not the one being put to death.

sfchronicle.com

Scalia just loves being a dick doesn’t he?

184
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:14:09am

re: #181 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I need a drink…

How very Christian of them.

185
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:14:14am

Heh, just found this on an anti-Muslim blog, linking to my article above:

Click to Reveal

islamversuseurope.blogspot. com/2013/10/the-270-million-victims-of-jihad.html

Monday, 28 October 2013
The 270 million victims of jihad?
23:26 | Posted by Cheradenine Zakalwe

This figure of 270 million victims of jihad seems to have lodged itself in the minds of Counterjihad activists. Pamela Geller, I think, is responsible for popularising it. But it really can’t withstand critical scrutiny, so I suggest we should all stop using it.

Watching videos of some of Michael Stürzenberger’s public events in Munich, in which he is trying to collect enough signatures to trigger a referendum on whether an Islamic centre should be built, I see him invoke this 270 million figure all the time.

The figure is not reliable, however. Although I’m not exactly a fan of the Little Green Footballs site, in this case their criticism is to the point. The article here demolishes the credibility of the 270 million figure. Geller did not originate this figure. She has simply taken it up from elsewhere. But the data is not solid enough to justify it. Or any other figure that precise, for that matter. Much of the effect of jihad is lost in mists of time and only conjectures about it are now possible. The data sources are simply not there.

Quoting this figure, like the inflated Muslim demographic figures that are sometimes bandied about, just opens us up to criticism from the Establishment. With the effortless debunking that will inevitably follow, it will be easy for mainstream hacks to insinuate that because our figures are unreliable, our concern about Islam is unfounded.

The comments are not encouraging.

186
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:15:40am

re: #182 Skip Intro

Umm, personhood from conception was not always a Catholic doctrine.

187
Higgs Boson's Mate  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:19:06am

re: #171 Blind Frog Belly White

Details, details.

Then no mention of the noble Fourth Crusade, which ended in the noble sack of Constantinople in 1204. The valorous sack of the last bastion of Christianity in the East so weakened Constantinople that it later fell to the Turks.

188
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:23:09am

re: #186 Nyet

Umm, personhood from conception was not always a Catholic doctrine.

Albeit prohibition of abortion might have been despite this fact, so Scalia is technically correct.

189
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:25:54am

re: #187 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Then no mention of the noble Fourth Crusade, which ended in the noble sack of Constantinople in 1204. The valorous sack of the last bastion of Christianity in the East so weakened Constantinople that it later fell to the Turks.

Shhh or the various wars Christians fought with each other.

190
Timothy Watson  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:28:23am

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Shhh or the various wars Christians fought with each other.

The Thirty Years’ War killed half of the German people.

191
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:30:23am

re: #182 Skip Intro

I attribute that to the fact that, for the believing Christian, death is no big deal.”

lolwut

Once you’re dead, you can’t repent, and if you hadn’t done all the right ritual stuff, it’s unlikely you’re going to heaven, so of course it’s a big deal, a caesura in one’s eternal life.

But if it’s not a big deal, why all the fuss about abortion? Moreover, all those embryos and fetuses are going to heaven, no? Why rob them of the certainty of salvation?///

192
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:30:36am

re: #190 Timothy Watson

The Thirty Years’ War killed half of the German people.

Wow I didn’t know that.

193
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:32:07am

re: #191 Nyet

lolwut

Once you’re dead, you can’t repent, and if you hadn’t done all the right ritual stuff, it’s unlikely you’re going to heaven, so of course it’s a big deal, a caesura in one’s eternal life.

But if it’s not a big deal, why all the fuss about abortion? Moreover, all those embryos and fetuses are going to heaven, no? Why rob them of the certainty of salvation?///

Yeah Scalia isn’t exactly using sound logic. If he were just honest and admitted that he thinks death should be the harshest punishment for crimes, I could live with that. I’d disagree of course but it’d be honest.

194
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:34:33am

3 of the 4 local TV stations are showing coverage of the Papal visit. (Currently on way to visit the seminary just west of Philadelphia.)

The 4th station (NBC) is showing golf.

195
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:35:42am

re: #190 Timothy Watson

The Thirty Years’ War killed half of the German people.

Specifically, males. The stats for both sexes are lower.

196
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:36:38am

re: #195 Nyet

Specifically, males. The stats for both sexes are lower.

Not much military logistics (or steady pay) in that time period. So lots of looting, foraging, and employment of mercenary companies.

197
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:37:01am

re: #195 Nyet

Specifically, males. The stats for both sexes are lower.

That gets me to another thought about Americans and war. I think we (Americans) don’t understand why other countries are reticent about war because outside the Civil War, we never really had a war that decimated our population.

198
HappyWarrior  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:37:20am

re: #196 Feline Fearless Leader

Not much military logistics (or steady pay) in that time period. So lots of looting, foraging, and employment of mercenary companies.

I imagine illness too.

199
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:38:49am

re: #191 Nyet

lolwut

Once you’re dead, you can’t repent, and if you hadn’t done all the right ritual stuff, it’s unlikely you’re going to heaven, so of course it’s a big deal, a caesura in one’s eternal life.

But if it’s not a big deal, why all the fuss about abortion? Moreover, all those embryos and fetuses are going to heaven, no? Why rob them of the certainty of salvation?///

Catholic doctrine said that any pre-baptism infant deaths would go to ‘Limbo’. Or as George Carlin put it, ‘Whip ‘em into Limbo!’ Don’t know whether this is current.

200
Ace-o-aces  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:41:26am

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

201
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:42:56am

Impromptu singing of “Happy Birthday” by a group of priests just now. At Francis’ instigation. It seems one of the Archbishops has a birthday today.

202
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:46:19am

re: #199 wrenchwench

It was never a part of the official doctrine. It was an unofficial theory to make lay Catholics cringe less at the words of some Church fathers that unbaptized infants went straight to hell. Ergo, Limbo: a gentler, cooler part of hell.

Knowing the (unresolved) Catholic problem with the fate of unbaptized infants, I formulated the statement above as a question. If one answers “no”, what morality and what “good God” do they have a right to speak of?

203
stpaulbear  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:47:15am

re: #201 Feline Fearless Leader

Impromptu singing of “Happy Birthday” by a group of priests just now. At Francis’ instigation. It seems one of the Archbishops has a birthday today.

He’s trolling Warner Brothers for having just lost the suit over the song’s copywrite.

204
Skip Intro  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:49:39am

re: #199 wrenchwench

Let’s just say it’s complicated. And convoluted, since Limbo is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, so it’s an invented concept.

205
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:52:17am

re: #202 Nyet

It was never a part of the official doctrine. It was an unofficial theory to make lay Catholics cringe less at the words of some Church fathers that unbaptized infants went straight to hell. Ergo, Limbo: a gentler, cooler part of hell.

Knowing the (unresolved) Catholic problem with the fate of unbaptized infants, I formulated the statement above as a question. If one answers “no”, what morality and what “good God” do they have a right to speak of?

To me, the Catholic position is another of their unscientific positions. If 70% or 50% or whatever huge percentage of embryos don’t survive by random chance, why is the woman not allowed a say in her fate? What if it were a man who conceived? Would the position be different?

206
b_sharp  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:55:23am

As a militant atheist, I’m fully armed with facts, arguments & laws. I’m a real danger to people.

207
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:55:36am

re: #204 Skip Intro

Let’s just say it’s complicated. And convoluted, since Limbo is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, so it’s an invented concept.

The Bible is an invented concept too, so is the Purgatory (although it, unlike Limbo, can be sort-of derived, with stretches, from the deuterocanonical parts of the Bible).

It’s not about whether it’s invented, but rather whether it was officially accepted, i.e. binding.

208
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:58:52am

New hashtag alert:

209
Skip Intro  Sep 26, 2015 • 9:59:10am

So what happens to Protestant children who die before being born or baptized?

Same God, different rules?

210
b_sharp  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:01:27am

Getting difficult to type on LGF today.

211
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:01:30am

re: #207 Nyet

It’s not about whether it’s invented, but rather whether it was officially accepted, i.e. binding.

You can say that about so many things. I’m not surprised my parents fell for and passed on some bad info. They may have pulled a few fast ones themselves. Turns out they may not have been married until after their fourth surviving child (of 7) was born. I can’t remember ever seeing a wedding photo. I only realized this after seeing a document from Social Security naming the date of their marriage 10 and a half years after when I thought it was.

212
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:03:46am

re: #205 wrenchwench

The truly unscientific part of the current doctrine of ensoulment is that at early stages 1 embryo can split into 2 and 2 embryos can fuse into 1.

213
Romantic Heretic  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:06:57am

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

If those are not retired generals I suspect they soon will be.

214
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:09:18am

re: #202 Nyet

Limbo was Dante’s first level of hell.
I think it was around as an unofficial Catholic concept before then, but Dante’s Inferno kind of popularized it.

215
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:10:46am

THIS 1,411-MILE ROUTE takes you to three UNESCO World Heritage Sites and as many national monuments, art and historical sites unique to New Mexico, and scores of places to climb, camp, swim, stargaze, scuba dive, encounter alien life...and eat pie. [Emphasis added.]

[…]

216
Nyet  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:14:07am

re: #214 Backwoods_Sleuth

Here is an extensive overview of the matter:

vatican.va

217
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:26:07am

Making homemade beef stew from last weekend’s leftover roast beef (that we had with Yorkshire pud).
Already smelling pretty darned good.

218
Romantic Heretic  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:30:00am

re: #192 HappyWarrior

Wow I didn’t know that.

Yep. Thirty years of armies marching back and forth, trampling crops, spreading disease. Much of the armies were mercenaries and when their contracts ran out they usually turned to banditry.

Much the same thing happened to France in the 100 Years War. Towards the end many of the villages of France, especially in places like Normandy and Aquitaine, were destroyed. The rest were walled and had people on watch at all times to warn when the bandits appeared. Hard to grow crops when you have to hide all the time.

It’s this sort of thing that I wish was more widely known about war. Most people think war is like the movies; two hours, the good guys win and the credits roll. If the second Bush Administration had had an accurate idea of war they’d have decided not to do Iraq.

219
b_sharp  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:31:26am

I just added adblock to Chrome to see if it would help with the typing delay I’m experiencing on LGF today.

It seems to help a bit, but it has only shortened the delay.

I’d rather not use adblock on LGF because Charles is funded by them.

Anybody here with a subscription having problems with typing delays?

220
Romantic Heretic  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:31:35am

re: #198 HappyWarrior

I imagine illness too.

Yeah. As I recall in that period, even in good weather, an army would lose half its troops to privation and exposure. That’s without fighting any battles.

221
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:36:22am
222
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:37:33am

re: #219 b_sharp

I just added adblock to Chrome to see if it would help with the typing delay I’m experiencing on LGF today.

It seems to help a bit, but it has only shortened the delay.

I’d rather not use adblock on LGF because Charles is funded by them.

Anybody here with a subscription having problems with typing delays?

I just have my usual snailspeed internet connection problem.

223
b_sharp  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:41:20am

re: #222 Backwoods_Sleuth

I just have my usual snailspeed internet connection problem.

Take the saddles off the snails and they’ll speed up.

224
Ace-o-aces  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:43:51am
225
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:44:55am

re: #223 b_sharp

Take the saddles off the snails and they’ll speed up.

Thing I’ve had probs with in the last week or so is uploading images.
I discovered last night that I have to have the file size scaled waaaay down below the LGF 500K max size, otherwise the hamsters just go on strike.

226
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:45:25am

re: #200 Ace-o-aces

What a kook.

227
BeachDem  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:49:57am

re: #182 Skip Intro

Scalia explains why the death penalty is no big deal.

Especially when you’re not the one being put to death.

sfchronicle.com

Tony’s always been meh about the death penalty:

From an “Ethics in America” panel that Scalia participated in back in 1989.

… At the moment where the moderator indicated that the innocent man was about to be executed for a crime he didn’t commit, Justice Scalia spoke up: “Well, he probably did something else wrong anyway.”

Yeah, Tony’s always been a charmer.

228
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:49:57am

Just added some barley to the beef stew.

mmmmmmm….

229
Stanley Sea Toujours  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:50:37am

re: #219 b_sharp

I just added adblock to Chrome to see if it would help with the typing delay I’m experiencing on LGF today.

It seems to help a bit, but it has only shortened the delay.

I’d rather not use adblock on LGF because Charles is funded by them.

Anybody here with a subscription having problems with typing delays?

Subscription —- zero problems.

230
PhillyPretzel  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:54:53am

re: #229 #CampaignZero

I also have a subscription. Right now according to PayPal my e-check did not go through and they will re-try it later but according to PayPal’s website I am paid. Charles if you are here could please tell me if you got my payment?

231
CleverToad  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:55:12am

re: #226 GlutenFreeJesus

No, no, they really love our military!
They’re just not particularly concerned about the individuals who serve in it.

///

232
b_sharp  Sep 26, 2015 • 10:56:23am

re: #229 #CampaignZero

Subscription —- zero problems.

Gluten free too?

233
Stanley Sea Toujours  Sep 26, 2015 • 11:02:35am

re: #232 b_sharp

Gluten free too?

Hell no.

234
wrenchwench  Sep 26, 2015 • 11:03:11am

re: #233 #CampaignZero

Hell no.

100% GMOs!

235
retired cynic  Sep 26, 2015 • 12:04:07pm

re: #215 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

One of my absolute favorite places in the world. Specifically, north of Albuquerque, on either side of the mountains. Heaven.

236
retired cynic  Sep 26, 2015 • 12:05:59pm

re: #218 Romantic Heretic

Yep.
… It’s this sort of thing that I wish was more widely known about war. Most people think war is like the movies; two hours, the good guys win and the credits roll. If the second Bush Administration had had an accurate idea of war they’d have decided not to do Iraq.

I’m not sure that would have stopped them. Think of the money to be made, the longer it goes on.


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