Video: Ben Carson Blames Oregon Shooting Victims: “I Would Not Just Stand There and Let Him Shoot Me”

Grotesque victim blaming from a Republican presidential candidate
Politics • Views: 48,358

YouTube

Republican presidential candidate (and young Earth creationist) Ben Carson went on Fox & Friends this morning and actually blamed the victims of the Oregon shooting for not doing enough to protect themselves. Just when you think Republicans can’t get any more loathsome… they do.

Interviewer: if a gunman walks up and puts a gun at you and says, “What religion are you?” … that is the ultimate test of your faith.

Carson: I’m glad you asked that question, because not only would I probably not cooperate with him, I would not just stand there and let him shoot me. I would say, “Hey guys, everybody attack him, he may shoot me but he can’t get us all.” [laughs]

Interviewer: Take action.

Carson: Absolutely.

(Via The Daily Beast.)

Jump to bottom

120 comments
1
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:43:49am

No Ben, you’d wet your pants, drop to your knees & pray for a miracle.

2
jaunte  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:44:05am

Abysmally ignorant false bravado.

3
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:45:17am

It’s easy to say this when you’re safe. I am honest to say here that I have no idea what I’d do in that situation and I hope like hell I’d do the right thing. Carson reallly is a special kind of shithead.

4
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:46:24am

re: #2 jaunte

Abysmally ignorant false bravado.

Exactly. Nobody knows how they will react in an extreme situation without having been in one. This is why police and the military train so much, in hopes that the training will override the natural reaction, and STILL often it doesn’t, when the real situation arises.

5
jaunte  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:47:18am

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Carson continues to demonstrate that he has no empathy whatsoever.

6
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:48:33am

I remember watching the combat scene at the end of “Saving Private Ryan” in which we see our protagonist cowering in fear while the German soldiers shoot down Captain Miller…and I recall one young asshole bragging about how “I wouldn’t have been cowering, I’d have been up there shooting!”

I replied that the point of the the film is that character cowering in the foxhole is you, and he is reacting the way that 98% of us would react, even with training.

Ben Carson’s remarks remind me of that little asshole.

7
blueraven  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:48:41am

Yeah, that young lady who was in a wheelchair should have charged that creep before he shot her in the head.

Ben Carson should be disqualified for stupidity.

8
wrenchwench  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:49:32am

re: #2 jaunte

Abysmally ignorant false bravado.

I was going to say that nobody knows what they’ll do with a gun pointed at them before it happens and he’s bragging about himself and insulting the dead, but you did it in four words.

9
mr.fusion  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:49:51am

sick sick sick sick sick

10
jaunte  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:49:54am

re: #8 wrenchwench

I’m a slow typist.

11
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:50:16am

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

my first thought was: real life is not like a Van Dam/Segal/Stallone/Arnold movie.

12
wrenchwench  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:51:08am

re: #10 jaunte

I’m a slow typist.

All the better that you’re a selective typist.

13
jaunte  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:51:35am

DROP YOUR WEAPONS; I AM A SURGEON!!!

14
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:51:48am

re: #11 KGxvi

my first thought was: real life is not like a Van Dam/Segal/Stallone/Arnold movie.

problem is, for a lot of people, that is what determines their view of reality…

15
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:52:43am

re: #14 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

well, that, episodes of Cops and Dog the Bounty Hunter.

16
Interesting Times  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:53:25am

re: #4 Blind Frog Belly White

Exactly. Nobody knows how they will react in an extreme situation without having been in one. This is why police and the military train so much, in hopes that the training will override the natural reaction, and STILL often it doesn’t, when the real situation arises.

And the person who did confront the shooter was a veteran - in other words, far more often than not, the “good guys” (armed or not) who confront the bad guys have exactly the kind of training you’re talking about.

17
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:54:17am

Too many people think reality is a B action movie.

18
scottslemmons  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:55:08am

The weirdest thing about being alive today is how many people really seem to believe life is really just like an action movie. All the hero’s bullets hit and they always insta-kill, and all the Bad Guys wear black hats and graduated at the bottom of Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.

I’ve read comic books for decades, and I’m still not convinced I can pick up a battleship or shoot lasers from my eyes. I must not be living right.

19
wrenchwench  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:55:08am

I guess when the sh*t hits the fan, there won’t be many doctors around to clean up the mess. Or wouldn’t be if many of them are like Carson.

20
Timothy Watson  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:56:22am

re: #18 scottslemmons

The weirdest thing about being alive today is how many people really seem to believe life is really just like an action movie. All the hero’s bullets hit and they always insta-kill, and all the Bad Guys wear black hats and graduated at the bottom of Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.

I’ve read comic books for decades, and I’m still not convinced I can pick up a battleship or shoot lasers from my eyes. I must not be living right.

And any time a good guy gets shot, it’s just a flesh wound.

21
allegro  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:56:42am

I would love to see a compliation of these GOP candidate comments in an ad that ends with a pic of a dead child (simulated) and written overlay “This is your GOP”

22
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:56:44am

re: #20 Timothy Watson

And any time a good guy gets shot, it’s just a flesh wound.

and he always has something witty to say.

23
allegro  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:57:28am

re: #16 Interesting Times

And the person who did confront the shooter was a veteran - in other words, far more often than not, the “good guys” (armed or not) who confront the bad guys have exactly the kind of training you’re talking about.

And he took 5 bullets.

24
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:58:23am

re: #20 Timothy Watson

unless Joss Wheedon is in charge, then good guys die for no reason.

25
Timothy Watson  Oct 6, 2015 • 11:58:31am

This episode of MASH comes to mind:

Hawkeye’s old friend Tommy appears at the 4077th. A reporter in civilian life, he is a combat soldier working on a book about life on the front lines called “You Never Hear the Bullet.” The book is intended to show how death in battle can be sudden and not surrounded by any prior drama, as it often is in the movies. Later in the episode, Tommy himself shows up as a casualty on the operating table, having been shot by the enemy on the front lines. Just before being anesthetized, he weakly tells Hawkeye that he in fact had heard a bullet ricochet just before being hit, just like in the movies. Hawkeye, close to tears, suggests that “Sometimes You Hear the Bullet” is a better title anyway, and tries frantically to save Tommy’s life, but is ordered by Henry Blake to move away and help Trapper. Tommy dies moments later.

en.wikipedia.org

26
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:00:11pm

re: #21 allegro

I would love to see a compliation of these GOP candidate comments in an ad that ends with a pic of a dead child (simulated) and written overlay “This is your GOP”

Really has one GOP candidate offered anything resembling real sympathy for the victims rather than a kneejerk gun defense or in Carson’s twisted case an attack on the victims.

27
Timothy Watson  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:00:42pm

re: #23 allegro

And he took 5 bullets.

It’s hard to bum rush somebody when the bad guy is armed with an AR-15 (clone) with a 30-round magazine.

28
scottslemmons  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:02:03pm

re: #27 Timothy Watson

It’s hard to bum rush somebody when the bad guy is armed with an AR-15 (clone) with a 30-round magazine.

If you love Reagan enough, the bullets will just bounce off you anyway.

29
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:03:24pm

Carson is a brainless fuck.

30
Aunty Entity Dragon  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:03:25pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

It’s easy to say this when you’re safe. I am honest to say here that I have no idea what I’d do in that situation and I hope like hell I’d do the right thing. Carson reallly is a special kind of shithead.

Rod Dreher has been busy playing the martyr angle with his readership proclaiming their dedication to saying “YES I AM A CHRISTIAN” before letting the nut fill you with holes because GOD said that is what you must do…or something.

31
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:05:04pm

re: #30 Aunty Entity Dragon

Rod Dreher has been busy playing the martyr angle with his readership proclaiming their dedication to saying “YES I AM A CHRISTIAN” before letting the nut fill you with holes because GOD said that is what you must do…or something.

Rod I bet if he had been faced with the situation these people were in would probably have shat himself. It’s easy to act like a tough guy when you’re safe and sound. I won’t lie here. I’d be scared. I may even piss myself or puke but you know what, I think that’s at least honest as opposed to the tough guy act that idiots like Rod and Ben like to pull when they never have and I hope for their sake never are in these type of situations.

32
Stuff Happens  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:05:09pm

Instead of saying very negative things about Carson, I’m posting this about shooting. It still makes my son and I laugh. We are fans of both Star Wars and Star Trek.

Storm Trooper vs Red Shirt
33
wrenchwench  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:07:37pm

re: #29 Nyet

Carson is a brainless fuck.

Could that be why he likes to look at the brains of others?

34
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:08:28pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

Could that be why he likes to look at the brains of others?

The Walking Ben?

35
Timothy Watson  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:08:52pm

re: #32 Stuff Happens

Instead of saying very negative things about Carson, I’m posting this about shooting. It still makes my son and I laugh. We are fans of both Star Wars and Star Trek.

[Embedded content]

I’ve always enjoyed the Expanded Universe (EU) explanation that the stormtroopers in A New Hope were intentionally missing every shot to allow everyone to escape and give a credible opposition to the Rebels so they wouldn’t think they were being tracked.

36
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:09:57pm

By the way, not to continue something from downstairs but I am glad for the most part we all seem to agree that a region’s politics should not hinder them in getting aid for relief aid. So thanks guys.

37
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:10:53pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

Could that be why he likes to look at the brains of others?

There’s a Russian expression “to fuck brains”. Which is what the GOP generally, and Carson personally, like to do.

38
Amory Blaine  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:13:28pm

re: #2 jaunte

Abysmally ignorant false bravado.

Describes every conservative platform.

39
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:14:52pm

OT - There’s a big difference between the data you NEED and the data you WANT. The data you NEED will help you make decisions, and will actually alter what you do. The data you WANT won’t change anything. My job is to make sure that I and my group produce the data you NEED. I will not bust my hump or ask my group to bust theirs for the data you WANT.

Also, you can have it done RIGHT, or you can have it done Tuesday.

/rant.

40
iossarian  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:15:11pm

re: #38 Amory Blaine

Describes every conservative platform.

“We’ll be welcomed as liberators”

“Supply-side economics”

“Abstinence-only education”

41
allegro  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:16:54pm

re: #40 iossarian

“We’ll be welcomed as liberators”

“Supply-side economics”

“Abstinence-only education”

Right to work state

Pro-life

42
Jenner7  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:16:57pm

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

43
bratwurst  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:17:13pm

Franklin Graham: Obama supports same-sex marriage and abortion because he’s ‘guided by’ Islam

Someone doesn’t understand Islam very well…or Obama…or Christianity for that matter.

44
It's on his hat!  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:17:29pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

What. The. Fuck.

45
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:17:46pm

Liberator 2: The Cakewalk.

46
team_fukit  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:18:36pm

Carson is basically a meat mechanic, zero empathy

47
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:18:42pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

Go fuck yourself Bobby seriously.

48
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:19:30pm

re: #43 bratwurst

Franklin Graham: Obama supports same-sex marriage and abortion because he’s ‘guided by’ Islam

Someone doesn’t understand Islam very well…or Obama…or Christianity for that matter.

Actually Franklin you have more in common with a devout Muslim than Obama does on these issues. But I get it you’re a moron who would be picking up shit if he didn’t have a famous daddy.

49
allegro  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:20:02pm

re: re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

Clearly he’s been “feminized”

50
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:20:30pm

I keep on thinking these candidates can’t sink any lower. I thought Carson’s was pretty low and Bobby Jindal was like “No HW, I’m going to show you how you can be an even bigger asshole than that.”

51
Mike Lamb  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:21:16pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

Guns don’t kill people—video games, music, television, and movies kill people.

52
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:21:17pm

You know who should be ashamed as parents? Bobby Jindal’s. The guy is a complete hateful asshole who wants white supremacist christofacists to like him.

53
It's on his hat!  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:21:32pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

Jindal rattled off a litany of root causes, including the glorification of “sick and senseless acts of violence in virtually every element of our pop culture” — something he said had been going on for at least a generation.

He blamed violence in movies, TV shows, music and video games.

We export our pop culture all over the world. Europe loves our music and movies, and yet, they manage not to murder each other like this.

What a fuckstick.

54
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:22:04pm

Notice that Jindal did not condemn the shooter’s lunatic mother and her gun fetishism.

55
wrenchwench  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:22:14pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

Go fuck yourself Bobby seriously.

There will be no brain-fucking in his case, for lack of a locale.

56
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:22:39pm
He blamed violence in movies, TV shows, music and video games.

Sacrificing the First Amendment at the alter of the Second Amendment.

57
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:22:40pm

re: #53 It’s on his hat!

We export our pop culture all over the world. Europe loves our music and movies, and yet, they manage not to murder each other like this.

What a fuckstick.

I wonder what he has to say to his fellow candidate Marco Rubio who by his own admission loves rap music.

58
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:22:50pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

He’s not going gentle into that good night. He’s decided to rage, rage against the dying of his political career.

Buck Henry in the “Talk Back” sketch on SNL, decades ago.

59
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:23:08pm

re: #55 wrenchwench

There will be no brain-fucking in his case, for lack of a locale.

He is just so pathetic.

60
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:23:47pm

re: #58 Blind Frog Belly White

my only regret is that I have but one upding to give.

61
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:24:59pm

re: #55 wrenchwench

There will be no brain-fucking in his case, for lack of a locale.

Plus, as OA pointed out, being a huge tool doesn’t mean you’re now equipped for the task.

62
freetoken  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:25:40pm

When you’re on a roll, you’re on a roll:

Ben Carson just had an epic ‘The View’ interview about Nazis, evolution, and hurricanes

“Let me explain. Let me explain,” he began after Behar brought up fossil records. “Microevolution vs. macroevolution are two different things.”

63
nines09  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:25:49pm

Ben Carson. Ninja Brain Surgeon. How come he didn’t say he would whip out his 44 and get all Medieval on his ass? Ben is a bad punchline in an unfunny joke.

64
Dr. Matt  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:26:23pm

And now this fucking shit:

Bobby Jindal blames Oregon shooter’s anti-gun dad: ‘He owes us all an apology’

“Let’s get really politically incorrect here and talk specifically about this horror in Oregon,” Jindal said. “This killer’s father is now lecturing us on the need for gun control and he says he has no idea how or where his son got the guns.”

Jindal continued his personal attack on the killer’s father.

“Of course he doesn’t know,” Jindal said. “You know why he doesn’t know? Because he is not, and has never been in his son’s life. He’s a complete failure as a father, he should be embarrassed to even show his face in public. He’s the problem here.”

“He brags that he has never held a gun in his life and that he had no idea that his son had any guns,” Jindal continued. “Why didn’t he know? Because he failed to raise his son. He should be ashamed of himself, and he owes us all an apology.”

65
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:26:51pm

It’s going to get worse. Why? Because the so called GOP moderates lie themselves to sleep that there’s nothing wrong with the party and that the party’s faults can’t be ignored.

66
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:27:25pm

re: #62 freetoken

microevolution and macroevolution? is that like microeconomics and macroeconomics?

67
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:28:08pm

re: #64 Dr. Matt

And now this fucking shit:

Bobby Jindal blames Oregon shooter’s anti-gun dad: ‘He owes us all an apology’

Already being discussed but let me reiternate, Bobby Jindal is a classless asshole who I hope for his sake never has to deal with a tragedy involving a loved one and a gun. Bobby probably has never fired a weapon in his life outside his political posing.

68
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:28:17pm

Skilled != smart.

69
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:30:02pm

re: #62 freetoken

“Let me explain. Let me explain,” he began after Behar brought up fossil records. “Microevolution vs. macroevolution are two different things.”

Guy has no clue. “Meat mechanic” is the perfect description.

70
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:30:07pm

re: #27 Timothy Watson

It’s hard to bum rush somebody when the bad guy is armed with an AR-15 (clone) with a 30-round magazine.

Time your movement between the bullets.

71
Aunty Entity Dragon  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:31:32pm

re: #70 b_sharp

Time your movement between the bullets.

hey, it worked in The Matrix…

72
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:31:58pm

I Would Not Just Stand There and Let Him

one word: AK-47

73
freetoken  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:33:12pm

The thing is, while the panel on The View may intuitively realize their guest is deceptive, the panel usually doesn’t have the skill and expertise to deliver through on their queries.

That’s why Behar couldn’t follow up with a proper response.

So the end result to the viewer is that it looks like Carson must have had a valid point.

This is why I don’t really give The View kudos for these kind of things. Ultimately it’s just another celebrity guest show, and one might as well watch DWTS.

74
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:33:17pm

microevolution and macroevolution

is the idea here that microevolution is christian and macroevolution is a vile deception of satan?

75
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:34:36pm

re: #74 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

microevolution and macroevolution

is the idea here that microevolution is christian and macroevolution is a vile deception of satan?

There is no “idea” there. It’s a brainless zombie meme.

76
TedStriker  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:37:39pm

re: #4 Blind Frog Belly White

Exactly. Nobody knows how they will react in an extreme situation without having been in one. This is why police and the military train so much, in hopes that the training will override the natural reaction, and STILL often it doesn’t, when the real situation arises.

Which is, generally, to run like hell.

Carson’s a fucking douchebag.

77
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:39:00pm
Republican presidential candidate (and young Earth creationist) Ben Carson went on Fox & Friends this morning

Of course he did.

78
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:39:12pm

last night boopsie cooked up a sentimental favorite from her soviet childhood: barley, prepared the way rice would be prepared

i recommend it!

79
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:40:05pm

re: #64 Dr. Matt

And now this fucking shit:

Bobby Jindal blames Oregon shooter’s anti-gun dad: ‘He owes us all an apology’

Wow, Jindal is a major dick. Is he still running for president?

80
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:41:25pm

re: #64 Dr. Matt

And now this fucking shit:

Bobby Jindal blames Oregon shooter’s anti-gun dad: ‘He owes us all an apology’

Hurr hurr I’m Politically Incorrect and everyone else is politically correct!!!!

81
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:41:48pm

re: #74 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

microevolution and macroevolution

is the idea here that microevolution is christian and macroevolution is a vile deception of satan?

They can’t deny Evolution, because the change in the genetic composition of a population of organisms as a result of selection (natural or otherwise) working on the genetic diversity of the starting population is obvious and undeniable. So, they artificially divide it into two concepts. According to this, Microevolution is what happens within a species - that’s the one they can’t deny.

Macroevolution is evolution sufficient to generate different species. THAT, they deny. Except, to deny it, they have to fall back on ‘Kinds’.

You can walk them through the whole thing - separation, divergence, speciation, further divergence, but then they say, “Then why don’t dogs become cats?” or some other damn stupid thing, as their escape.

82
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:42:27pm

re: #43 bratwurst

Franklin Graham: Obama supports same-sex marriage and abortion because he’s ‘guided by’ Islam

Someone doesn’t understand Islam very well…or Obama…or Christianity for that matter.

SSM and abortion run rampant in Islamic countries.

/////

83
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:42:43pm

re: #74 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

microevolution and macroevolution

is the idea here that microevolution is christian and macroevolution is a vile deception of satan?

The idea is that macroevolution requires a jump across ‘kind’ barriers while micro is just tiny little changes built into the genome by a god (take your pick).

84
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:44:27pm

re: #74 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

from what I’ve gathered reading about this: creationists have seized on scientific language to argue that creationism is real. Basically, in evolutionary biology, microevolution is a term used for short term evolution; while macroevolution is a term used on the geological scale of time. Creationists play the “we can’t observe things on the geological scale therefore it’s not real” game; but they admit microevolution exists because even they recognize things like different breeds of dogs and cats. But in reality, from a scientific point of view, there’s no real difference between micro and macroevolution (it’s the difference between one baseball game and a season or career).

85
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:44:34pm

re: #82 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

SSM and abortion run rampant in Islamic countries.

/////

I used to say it as a joke but I seriously think Graham and others like him think everything they dislike has the exact opposite policies of them i.e. the fact that Graham actually seems to think social liberalism is part of Islamism even though if he ever had a discussion with the Ayatollah, they’d find themselves in violent agreement on pretty much everything.

86
bratwurst  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:44:48pm

The great Fox News boycott of 2015 continues!

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:45:24pm

re: #83 b_sharp

Yeah. “But where does the genetic diversity come from, since All Mutations Are Deleterious, and Misspellings Cause Lost Information Not New Information, and There’s No Way To Generate New Information” - all of which, BTW, is demonstrably bullshit.

88
freetoken  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:45:32pm

re: #83 b_sharp

The idea is that macroevolution requires a jump across ‘kind’ barriers while micro is just tiny little changes built into the genome by a god (take your pick).

Yes.

But I doubt many viewers of The View really care.

89
ObserverArt  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:47:01pm

Damn, I am behind the 8-ball catching up to the new threads.

I just posted this video in the last thread thinking it was still active.

It’s a great little video about guns and gun control by a gun lover. I saw this elsewhere earlier today, and just got around to checking it out.

I Love My Guns

90
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:47:02pm

re: #84 KGxvi

from what I’ve gathered reading about this: creationists have seized on scientific language to argue that creationism is real. Basically, in evolutionary biology, microevolution is a term used for short term evolution; while macroevolution is a term used on the geological scale of time. Creationists play the “we can’t observe things on the geological scale therefore it’s not real” game; but they admit microevolution exists because even they recognize things like different breeds of dogs and cats. But in reality, from a scientific point of view, there’s no real difference between micro and macroevolution (it’s the difference between one baseball game and a season or career).

So asking as a person with a non-science background, essentially micro is short term things such as how we’ve been able to breed different breeds of dogs and cats and macro is more long term adaptions?

91
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:48:16pm

re: #81 Blind Frog Belly White

why don’t dogs become cats?

because dogs are true conservatives and resist the felinization of culture

92
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:49:42pm

re: #84 KGxvi

while macroevolution is a term used on the geological scale of time

Not quite. Macroevolution is basically speciation and everything above that. And speciation is well documented.

93
Patricia Kayden  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:50:29pm

re: #42 Jenner7

Add it to the files of the classless GOP:

[Embedded content]

Wow. That is low — even for a GOP politician. Speechless.

94
Patricia Kayden  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:51:27pm

re: #43 bratwurst

Franklin Graham: Obama supports same-sex marriage and abortion because he’s ‘guided by’ Islam

Someone doesn’t understand Islam very well…or Obama…or Christianity for that matter.

Is there no one who can challenge Graham when he makes such outlandish and untrue statements?

95
KGxvi  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:52:31pm

re: #92 Nyet

thanks for the clarification. I’d only spent about 10 minutes doing some google-fu to figure out what it was. but mostly figured it was bullshit when I had to wade through plenty of creationist bullshit to get to the truth.

96
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:52:35pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

So asking as a person with a non-science background, essentially micro is short term things such as how we’ve been able to breed different breeds of dogs and cats and macro is more long term adaptions?

Think of it as a completely continuous spectrum, from breeding a line of dogs with a single hair color out of a more diverse population, all the way up to the entire family tree of life, from the first living thing down to the entirety of biodiversity that exists. From selecting for a single trait, all the way to the totality of Evolution is all one continous line, from left to right.

Now, arbitrarily draw a vertical line, and say that only things to the left of this can happen.

97
Eventual Carrion  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:53:09pm

re: #66 KGxvi

microevolution and macroevolution? is that like microeconomics and macroeconomics?

Except bigger and smaller.

98
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:54:25pm

re: #96 Blind Frog Belly White

Think of it as a completely continuous spectrum, from breeding a line of dogs with a single hair color out of a more diverse population, all the way up to the entire family tree of life, from the first living thing down to the entirety of biodiversity that exists. From selecting for a single trait, all the way to the totality of Evolution is all one continous line, from left to right.

Now, arbitrarily draw a vertical line, and say that only things to the left of this can happen.

in a way it’s analogous to the question of what is a dialect and what is a language - the answer that linguists give is that a language is a dialect with an army

99
TedStriker  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:55:37pm

re: #76 TedStriker

Which is, generally, to run like hell.

Carson’s a fucking douchebag.

Edit: And so is Jindal; fucking douchebags all.

100
HappyWarrior  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:57:02pm

re: #96 Blind Frog Belly White

Think of it as a completely continuous spectrum, from breeding a line of dogs with a single hair color out of a more diverse population, all the way up to the entire family tree of life, from the first living thing down to the entirety of biodiversity that exists. From selecting for a single trait, all the way to the totality of Evolution is all one continous line, from left to right.

Now, arbitrarily draw a vertical line, and say that only things to the left of this can happen.

Okay I think I get it. THanks man.

101
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:58:00pm

re: #95 KGxvi

thanks for the clarification. I’d only spent about 10 minutes doing some google-fu to figure out what it was. but mostly figured it was bullshit when I had to wade through plenty of creationist bullshit to get to the truth.

In order to make that argument creationists have to redefine the term “macroevolution” from how the scientists actually use it.

They only acknowledge some “radically” new species, like, morphologically different, as “new” (think cats from dogs), and it has nothing to do with the scientific definition.

Ironically, their “arkology”/baraminology requires them to believe that, say, lions, tigers and cats are one kind, so a real-time evolution of a lion from a cat-like ancestor would *not* suffice.

They’re fucking psychos is what they are.

102
Kate1230  Oct 6, 2015 • 12:59:43pm

Every time I think Carson can’t sink any lower, he always proves me wrong.

Not only should we stand up to anyone pointing a gun at us, he wants us to remember how valuable our 2nd amendment is!

Carson ignorantly said, “”As a Doctor, I spent many a night pulling bullets out of bodies. There is no doubt that this senseless violence is breathtaking - but I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away.”

I wish the coroner from Sandy Hook could send him copies of autopsy photos from all those innocent children who were shot repeated times with an automatic rifle. Let’s see Carson look at those and remain nonchalant. WTF is wrong with people like him? How can anyone put owning a gun over possibly reducing the number of deaths due to gun violence? I’m a gun owner and I’d gladly give up my gun if it would reduce deaths.

If that shooter in Oregon hadn’t been able to purchase 13 guns in a short period of time because we had a gun registry, that wouldn’t have hurt legitimate gun owners, only the ones planning to harm others.

103
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:02:35pm

re: #101 Nyet

In order to make that argument creationists have to redefine the term “macroevolution” from how the scientists actually use it.

They only acknowledge some “radically” new species, like, morphologically different, as “new” (think cats from dogs), and it has nothing to do with the scientific definition.

Ironically, their “arkology”/baraminology requires them to believe that, say, lions, tigers and cats are one kind, so a real-time evolution of a lion from a cat-like ancestor would *not* suffice.

They’re fucking psychos is what they are.

Crazier still, they attempt to get around the obvious limitations of the Ark by positing that it contained, for example, to members of a single Felid progenitor species, which then evolved into all the different Felid species once the Ark landed. And note that there has been little or no change in any of these species within recorded history, so it would all have happened in about, maybe 500 years. This is many orders of magnitude FASTER than the pace of evolution that they deny could possibly have happened.

104
gwangung  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:03:00pm

re: #95 KGxvi

thanks for the clarification. I’d only spent about 10 minutes doing some google-fu to figure out what it was. but mostly figured it was bullshit when I had to wade through plenty of creationist bullshit to get to the truth.

The talkorigins.org archive is usually a good place to start.

105
Timothy Watson  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:04:05pm

re: #104 gwangung

RationalWiki’s a good place too
rationalwiki.org

106
Kate1230  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:04:35pm

re: #86 bratwurst

Trump has his own vocabulary, complete with unique meanings. Boycott doesn’t mean the same thing as it does to the rest of the world and neither does losing points in a poll mean that you’ve actually lost anything. In Trump’s world, it means everything is GGREEAATTT, and he’s doing FFAANNNTTASTIC! Up is down and down is up. Trump LOVES everyone and everyone LOVES Trump.

107
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:05:22pm

re: #103 Blind Frog Belly White

Crazier still, they attempt to get around the obvious limitations of the Ark by positing that it contained, for example, to members of a single Felid progenitor species, which then evolved into all the different Felid species once the Ark landed. And note that there has been little or no change in any of these species within recorded history, so it would all have happened in about, maybe 500 years. This is many orders of magnitude FASTER than the pace of evolution that they deny could possibly have happened.

Lions, tigers, jaguars, lynxes, domestic cats and cougars are basically one type of a creature, but humans and apes are not relatives, no sir!

108
Eventual Carrion  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:06:12pm

re: #76 TedStriker

Which is, generally, to run like hell.

Carson’s a fucking douchebag.

Which is how I handled the 2 times I was in a gunfire situation. One I was the target and the other I wasn’t. But running like hell and keeping low and behind shit is the best response. The one time I was the target was because some shitstain rednecks in Mississippi didn’t like that fact that I was hanging around with my friend who is black, and all it took was for me to tell him I didn’t give a fuck what they thought. That was when the iron came out. Luckily we were half a parking lot away from them with cars in between to duck behind (and it was about midnight or there after, so dark and shadowy), and they didn’t stick around after firing 2 quick shots. The other time I was young, somewhere I shouldn’t have been, doing things I shouldn’t have been doing, and I got out of there fast when it hit the fan.

109
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:08:30pm

re: #87 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah. “But where does the genetic diversity come from, since All Mutations Are Deleterious, and Misspellings Cause Lost Information Not New Information, and There’s No Way To Generate New Information” - all of which, BTW, is demonstrably bullshit.

It’s always the same. They suffer from too much Hovind & Ham and not enough thought.

110
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:09:02pm

re: #107 Nyet

Lions, tigers, jaguars, lynxes and cougars are basically one type of a creature, but humans and apes are not relatives, no sir!

The other thing about Creationism is that if you REALLY believe it, there’s no rational reason for animal experimentation. Why test drugs on nonhuman primates, since we’re no more related to them than we are to bananas or mushrooms?

111
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:09:32pm

re: #92 Nyet

Not quite. Macroevolution is basically speciation and everything above that. And speciation is well documented.

Micro is within species change & macro is as you’ve said.

112
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:09:40pm

re: #109 b_sharp

It’s always the same. They suffer from too much Hovind & Ham and not enough thought.

Thought is dangerous. It leads one away from the bondage of ignorance.

113
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:11:04pm

re: #96 Blind Frog Belly White

Think of it as a completely continuous spectrum, from breeding a line of dogs with a single hair color out of a more diverse population, all the way up to the entire family tree of life, from the first living thing down to the entirety of biodiversity that exists. From selecting for a single trait, all the way to the totality of Evolution is all one continous line, from left to right.

Now, arbitrarily draw a vertical line, and say that only things to the left of this can happen.

I’m sure many of them expect & believe macro should entail some sort of saltation event where a dog gives birth to a catdog or dogcat.

Or a crocoduck

114
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:12:08pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Okay I think I get it. THanks man.

He’s not a man. He’s an alien trying to corrupt our youth with tales of hope & change.

Wait, what?

115
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:12:45pm

re: #101 Nyet

In order to make that argument creationists have to redefine the term “macroevolution” from how the scientists actually use it.

They only acknowledge some “radically” new species, like, morphologically different, as “new” (think cats from dogs), and it has nothing to do with the scientific definition.

Ironically, their “arkology”/baraminology requires them to believe that, say, lions, tigers and cats are one kind, so a real-time evolution of a lion from a cat-like ancestor would *not* suffice.

They’re fucking psychos is what they are.

LOL

116
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:14:05pm

re: #104 gwangung

The talkorigins.org archive is usually a good place to start.

While this place is home, I still consider TO to be my vacation cottage.

117
Nyet  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:14:20pm

Both I and YECs hope that there will never be a human-ape hybrid.

Just for different reasons.

/

118
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:18:09pm

re: #113 b_sharp

I’m sure many of them expect & believe macro should entail some sort of saltation event where a dog gives birth to a catdog or dogcat.

Or a crocoduck

Yeah. It’s the binary thinking again. The one I’ve argued with the most keeps insisting on watershed moments, clear divisions, etc. I was describing how Homo erectus starts out with a chimp-sized brain case in the earliest specimens we can find, and over millenia the brain case on average expanded so that the latest specimens we find have a brain case at the low end of normal human.

He INSISTED that this meant that at some point, an ape gave birth to a human. He would not or could not accept the idea that 4 million years ago, our ancestors were upright-walking apes, and that over that time we BECAME human. To him, there had to be a SINGLE POINT at which Humans came into being.

The thing about him is, he’s not stupid. I see him as a smart man trapped in stupidity by his choice of beliefs.

119
b_sharp  Oct 6, 2015 • 1:41:04pm

re: #118 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah. It’s the binary thinking again. The one I’ve argued with the most keeps insisting on watershed moments, clear divisions, etc. I was describing how Homo erectus starts out with a chimp-sized brain case in the earliest specimens we can find, and over millenia the brain case on average expanded so that the latest specimens we find have a brain case at the low end of normal human.

He INSISTED that this meant that at some point, an ape gave birth to a human. He would not or could not accept the idea that 4 million years ago, our ancestors were upright-walking apes, and that over that time we BECAME human. To him, there had to be a SINGLE POINT at which Humans came into being.

The thing about him is, he’s not stupid. I see him as a smart man trapped in stupidity by his choice of beliefs.

Smart people are the best at rationalizing their belief systems & most confident in their conclusions. I’m not sure how do deal with them successfully.

120
blueraven  Oct 6, 2015 • 2:18:10pm

re: #102 Kate1230

Carson ignorantly said, “”As a Doctor, I spent many a night pulling bullets out of bodies. There is no doubt that this senseless violence is breathtaking - but I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away.”

Dear Dr Carson,

Nobody is trying to take your guns away you lying, stupid, pandering, fear monger.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 94 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0