NASA, NOAA Analyses Reveal 2015 Was Hottest Year in Recorded History

As the GOP remains mired in anti-science denial

YouTube

This visualization illustrates Earth’s long-term warming trend, showing temperature changes from 1880 to 2015 as a rolling five-year average. Orange colors represent temperatures that are warmer than the 1951-80 baseline average, and blues represent temperatures cooler than the baseline. Credits: GSFC Scientific Visualization Studio

NASA and NOAA scientists reported today that the Earth’s surface temperatures in 2015 were the warmest since records started being kept in 1880, breaking the record set just the year before.

The entire Republican Party has adopted climate change denial as a doctrine, but the planet isn’t listening to them. What level of disaster will it take before conservatives admit they were horribly wrong to subvert efforts to deal with this catastrophe in the making?

The 2015 temperatures continue a long-term warming trend, according to analyses by scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York (GISTEMP). NOAA scientists concur with the finding that 2015 was the warmest year on record based on separate, independent analyses of the data. Because weather station locations and measurements change over time, there is some uncertainty in the individual values in the GISTEMP index. Taking this into account, NASA analysis estimates 2015 was the warmest year with 94 percent certainty. 

“Climate change is the challenge of our generation, and NASA’s vital work on this important issue affects every person on Earth,” said NASA Administrator Charles Bolden. “Today’s announcement not only underscores how critical NASA’s Earth observation program is, it is a key data point that should make policy makers stand up and take notice - now is the time to act on climate.”

The planet’s average surface temperature has risen about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit (1.0 degree Celsius) since the late-19th century, a change largely driven by increased carbon dioxide and other human-made emissions into the atmosphere.

Most of the warming occurred in the past 35 years, with 15 of the 16 warmest years on record occurring since 2001. Last year was the first time the global average temperatures were 1 degree Celsius or more above the 1880-1899 average.

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140 comments

1
lawhawk  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:26:49am

I know it’s rhetorical, but given that you asked:

The entire Republican Party has adopted climate change denial as a doctrine, but the planet isn’t listening to them. What level of disaster will it take before conservatives admit they were horribly wrong to subvert efforts to deal with this catastrophe in the making?

The answer is that the GOP will not admit that they were wrong. They will somehow spin it that Democrats were at fault for not convincing them of their anti-science folly.

While the climate change denialism is full entrenched in the GOP these days, it also appears that being incapable of addressing public health is another central tenet. While the Flint water crisis drags on and the GOP is fully responsible for that mess, Gov. Christie just vetoed a bill to address lead poisoning in New Jersey.

These people simply ignore science and put the public at risk. That makes them dangerous.

2
Jenner7  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:27:55am

Same speech, but sober.

3
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:28:43am

HURR HURR EAST COAST IS GETTING RECORD SNOWSTORM, WEAR IS UR GLOBULL WORMING NOW AL GOAR!!!!1!!!

4
Alephnaught  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:28:57am
5
ausador  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:29:47am

It’s getting hot in here, but GOP says doze…

6
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:32:57am
7
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:33:04am

re: #2 Jenner7

Same speech, but sober.

Which is the same speech she’s been giving for eight years, an eight-year festivus airing of grievances.

8
Bubblehead II  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:33:28am

Stand by for calls to cut NASA and NOAA funding as they are obviously wasting taxpayer monies on these worthless weather studies.

9
Belafon  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:33:47am

re: #1 lawhawk

I know it’s rhetorical, but given that you asked:

The answer is that the GOP will not admit that they were wrong. They will somehow spin it that Democrats were at fault for not convincing them of their anti-science folly.

While the climate change denialism is full entrenched in the GOP these days, it also appears that being incapable of addressing public health is another central tenet. While the Flint water crisis drags on and the GOP is fully responsible for that mess, Gov. Christie just vetoed a bill to address lead poisoning in New Jersey.

These people simply ignore science and put the public at risk. That makes them dangerous.

As crop yields suffer due to the heat and droughts, Republicans will argue that government regulations are stymieing business attempts at growing more food and therefore need to be free from government shackles.

10
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:34:02am

re: #4 Alephnaught

NIBIRU!

11
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:34:33am

The climate cannot fail. It can only be failed.

12
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:35:03am

re: #1 lawhawk

I know it’s rhetorical, but given that you asked:

The answer is that the GOP will not admit that they were wrong. They will somehow spin it that Democrats were at fault for not convincing them of their anti-science folly.

While the climate change denialism is full entrenched in the GOP these days, it also appears that being incapable of addressing public health is another central tenet. While the Flint water crisis drags on and the GOP is fully responsible for that mess, Gov. Christie just vetoed a bill to address lead poisoning in New Jersey.

These people simply ignore science and put the public at risk. That makes them dangerous.

I think there is a presumption that they would care if a disaster happened. They won’t. They will, as you said, spin it to be the Dem’s fault.

13
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:35:08am

re: #4 Alephnaught

Talking of planetary boddys, they’ve found evidence of a large object beyond Uranus!!!!

The 12 year old in me wants to go wild right now.

14
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:35:54am

You could probably save this article word for word and repost annually, with only the year changed.

15
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:36:38am

I am pretty certain that Sarah Palin believes she will be Trump’s running mate.

16
unproven innocence  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:37:19am

Maybe OT: 01/20/2016
Caltech Researchers Find Evidence of a Real Ninth Planet

Caltech researchers have found evidence of a giant planet tracing a bizarre, highly elongated orbit in the outer solar system. The object, which the researchers have nicknamed Planet Nine, has a mass about 10 times that of Earth and orbits about 20 times farther from the sun on average than does Neptune (which orbits the sun at an average distance of 2.8 billion miles). In fact, it would take this new planet between 10,000 and 20,000 years to make just one full orbit around the sun.
[snip]

Besides our solar system passing twice thru denser parts of our Milky Way on each circuit around it, we now could have yet another thing periodically disturbing the Ort Cloud so as to send more comets our way from time to time.

17
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:37:28am

re: #15 The Vicious Babushka

I am pretty certain that Sarah Palin believes she will be Trump’s running mate.

We’ll have to see how she does in the swimsuit and talent portions of the competition first.

18
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:38:06am

re: #17 Kragar

We’ll have to see how she does in the swimsuit and talent portions of the competition first.

I kinda think Trump will pass on the Prima Nochte.

19
Jack Burton  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:38:07am

re: #3 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR EAST COAST IS GETTING RECORD SNOWSTORM, WEAR IS UR GLOBULL WORMING NOW AL GOAR!!!!1!!!

That’s exactly the shit they will say. I’m watching for it from the 2 or 3 RWers that I haven’t completely hidden on my Facebook feed. It should show up any minute now.

20
lawhawk  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:38:16am

re: #8 Bubblehead II

Stand by for calls to cut NASA and NOAA funding as they are obviously wasting taxpayer monies on these worthless weather studies.

And that we simply can’t do anything or take any steps to reduce the effects of climate change…

They’ll also cite energy company hacks who are paid to lie and obfuscate the information and that these are simply the vagaries of nature, and not the result of mankind spewing chemicals into the air that affect/force climate change at a rate faster than at other times in human history.

21
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:39:05am

re: #15 The Vicious Babushka

I am pretty certain that Sarah Palin believes she will be Trump’s running mate.

A professional VP candidate.

22
Jack Burton  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:39:58am

re: #10 freetoken

NIBIRU!

I hate to basically quote my #19, but…

That’s exactly the shit they will say. I’m watching for it from the 2 or 3 conspiracy kooks that I haven’t completely hidden on my Facebook feed. It should show up any minute now.

23
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:42:41am
24
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:44:40am

667 comments at the NYT article covering this story.

Their about what you’d expect. NYT actually force registered commenters, so a lot of stupid stuff just don’t show up, but there are still plenty of deniers.

25
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:46:08am

Headline writers…

2015 clinches record for warmest year: why climate scientists are celebrating

It’s the hottest year of record. Let’s celebrate!!

26
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:51:27am
27
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:51:31am
28
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:52:04am

heh…

29
jaunte  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:53:04am

Tusla Doom.

30
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:53:20am

re: #27 Kragar

Obama made her daughter get pregnant by two different men.

31
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:54:16am

surreal to hear sarah palin yelling ‘fuck the establishment’

32
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:55:52am

The GOP doctrine on this is a total failure as well. Elon Musk has proven there are high paying jobs and profit in green energy with Tesla.

The United States could easily be taking a leading position in the future of green energy starting with education and ending in huge profit, jobs etc etc if it wasn’t for the cavemen fighting so hard against progress.

33
Barefoot Grin  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:56:15am

I remember hearing about how PTSD is caused by a lack of respect.

34
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:58:13am
35
Belafon  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:58:27am

re: #32 Maxwell Not So Smart

The GOP doctrine on this is a total failure as well. Elon Musk has proven there are high paying jobs and profit in green energy with Tesla.

The United States could easily be taking a leading position in the future of green energy starting with education and ending in huge profit, jobs etc etc if it wasn’t for the cavemen fighting so hard against progress.

Yes, but what’s the poor, poor Exxon CEO supposed to do?

//

36
eyezofgawd  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:58:31am

re: #33 Barefoot Grin

shouldn’t obama have a huge case of PTSD then?

37
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:58:34am
38
Jenner7  Jan 20, 2016 • 11:59:35am

Is he for or against the Iran deal? I honestly can’t tell with his rambling.

39
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:00:02pm

re: #31 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

surreal to hear sarah palin yelling ‘fuck the establishment’

No way

40
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:00:13pm

re: #32 Maxwell Not So Smart

The GOP doctrine on this is a total failure as well. Elon Musk has proven there are high paying jobs and profit in green energy with Tesla.

The United States could easily be taking a leading position in the future of green energy starting with education and ending in huge profit, jobs etc etc if it wasn’t for the cavemen fighting so hard against progress.

And GM could have been the largest producer of hybrids. But they let it go to the Prius.

41
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:01:56pm

re: #39 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

No way

well, im paraphrasing, but she is seriously railing against the corrupt “establishment” that takes money from millionaires, does their bidding, and screws the ordinary person

obviously a socialist that’s what i say

42
jaunte  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:02:11pm

re: #34 The Vicious Babushka

43
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:02:25pm

The real problem behind tackling climate change, and why the GOP has to run from the issue, is that any solution requires significant global coordination.

To accept climate change as real is to accept that we share the same planet with other people, and that what we do affects them, and what they do affect us.

This means we truly are not free of the consequences of the actions of others.

This flies in the face of American Exceptionalism.

Big time.

44
wrenchwench  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:03:25pm

re: #31 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

surreal to hear sarah palin yelling ‘fuck the establishment’

Tea Partiers call the establishment Republicans ‘Stabbies’.

45
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:04:07pm
46
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:04:30pm

re: #40 WhatEVs

I brought a Prius in 2010 and have stock in green energy. When the more affordable Tesla comes out in a year or two I will buy an American made green car.

47
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:04:58pm

This idea that we need planetary management is so repugnant to today’s GOP that they cannot allow for any room for any policy that could give even the tiniest credibility to the idea that we have to collectively work with other countries, to manage our planetary resources.

That’s true across all issues, not just climate change.

That’s why today’s GOP blocks treaties and agreements on a range of issues.

48
VegasGolfer  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:06:40pm

re: #42 jaunte

49
jaunte  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:07:25pm

re: #45 Kragar

When I clicked on that, it served an ad for Shameless.
Google analytics is getting spookily accurate.

50
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:07:31pm

There are so many truly global problems, such as management of ocean resources.

To whit:

Global Fish Harvests Far Higher Than Official Figures, Study Says

Tens of millions more tons of fish have been taken from the seas than are recorded in official statistics, suggests a huge and controversial project aiming to estimate the ‘true catch’ of the world’s fishing industry.

The work is detailed in a paper in Nature Communications by fisheries researchers Daniel Pauly and Dirk Zeller of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, and it builds on a decade-long project that has drawn in hundreds of researchers from around the world.

According to Pauly and Zeller, global fisheries catches hit a peak of 130 million tons a year in 1996, and they have been declining strongly since then. This is substantially higher than the data collected by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), which report that catches reached 86 million tons in 1996 and have fallen only slightly.

[…]

51
Belafon  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:07:40pm

re: #48 VegasGolfer

I’ll be glad when they get to breathing.

52
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:08:39pm

re: #46 Maxwell Not So Smart

I was reading about the Chevrolet Bolt. $30,000 they say. Yeah right AFTER the $7500 subsidy/taxbreak/electric car bailout program. That price should not ever be advertised that way.

And what happens when the incentives go away?

53
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:09:36pm

Proof of war before we all settled the land for agriculture:

Prehistoric Massacre Hints at War Among Hunter-Gatherers

54
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:10:39pm

re: #41 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

well, im paraphrasing, but she is seriously railing against the corrupt “establishment” that takes money from millionaires, does their bidding, and screws the ordinary person

obviously a socialist that’s what i say

I thought all wingnuts loved them some Citizens United. Guess not.

55
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:13:31pm

re: #54 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

I thought all wingnuts loved them some Citizens United. Guess not.

it’s a big part of trump’s appeal that he has been stressing - that all politicians take money from special interests and then “kiss their ass”, but HE - trump - is so rich he doesn’t need their money

56
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:14:06pm

re: #42 jaunte

57
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:15:46pm

re: #52 Great White Snark

You end up driving around in a car that cuts pollution down by 60% or more. Plus you spend 2/3 less on fuel for it.

You also increase the chance of stopping runaway climate change that kills all human life on the planet. If you can’t find a few bucks in your bank account for that you should start riding a bike to work on take a bus.

58
unproven innocence  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:16:07pm

re: #53 freetoken

Proof of war before we all settled the land for agriculture:

Prehistoric Massacre Hints at War Among Hunter-Gatherers

I’m guessing the conflict was over access to water. Past is prologue.

59
ChuckJager95  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:18:44pm

Last week a conservative on my FB page pointed out that the hottest recorded day on that date in history - In Philadelphia - was recorded in 1913 so therefore everything is cyclical including weather, etc.

Hard to find fault in that bedrock of reason!

60
BeachDem  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:18:53pm

Keerist on a cracker—does this now mean that in addition to 24/7 coverage of every fucking belch Trump brings forth, we will now have to be subjected to the constant idiotic shrieking of Palin?

I thought I was in a time warp last night, when every time I switched from tennis to MSNBC, it was some inane crap about Palin and/or Trump. It is sad to see that instead of “Leaning Forward,” under the new MSNBC policy, the order of the day seems to be “Bend Over” and cover Trump continually.

I was sick of Palin from the day McCain announced her and she opened her yap in Dayton.

Here, media—you can do your daily coverage of her with one sentence. “Today, Sarah Palin said something stupid—using many words (and non-words) to say nothing of importance to anyone.” Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

I don’t think I can survive until November.

61
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:20:03pm

Speaking of denial:

State BOE President Responds to Henthorn’s Choice

State Board of Education President Michael Green has issued a statement regarding actions taken by Tyler Board of Education President Bonnie Henthorn.

Henthorn decided to take her two children out of Tyler County schools in December so as to homeschool them.

Henthorn blamed the state policies and criticized education leadership and mentioned Green when she announced her decision at a recent Tyler BOE meeting.

[…]

Henthorn said she does not plan to resign from the board and still supports teachers, students and staff.

[…]

Henson doesn’t want her children indoctrinated by evolution and wants them to learn about Christianity, so she pulls them out of the public schools, of which she is president of the board.

Remember, when the GOP candidates babble on about education at those “debates”, what they are really doing is pandering to people who reject evolution.

62
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:21:54pm

sarah palin, anti-establishment radical:

He’s been able to tear the veil off, this idea of the system, the way that the system really works and please hear me on this I want you guys to understand more and more how the system the establishment works and has gotten us into the troubles that we are in in America.

The permanent political class has been doing the bidding of their campaign donor class. And that’s why you see that the borders are kept open. For them, for their cheap labor that they want to come in. That’s why they’ve been bloating budgets, it’s for crony capitalists to be able ta suck off of ‘um. It’s why we see these lousy trade dills that gut our industry, for special interests elsewhere.

63
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:22:04pm

re: #32 Maxwell Not So Smart

The GOP doctrine on this is a total failure as well. Elon Musk has proven there are high paying jobs and profit in green energy with Tesla.

The United States could easily be taking a leading position in the future of green energy starting with education and ending in huge profit, jobs etc etc if it wasn’t for the cavemen fighting so hard against progress.

Case in point, the Nevada Public Utility Commission is killing the solar power industry in the state by charging higher rates and fees to solar panel users.
pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com

64
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:22:55pm
65
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:23:35pm

Wingnuts have discovered this photo. Hilarity ensues.

66
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:24:55pm

re: #62 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

That’s why they’ve been bloating budgets

Never seen bloat used as a verb before…

67
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:25:36pm

net/net i think palin clinched the gop nomination for trump but will cause him to lose the general

68
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:10pm

re: #66 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Never seen bloat used as a verb before…

once you become republican enough all parts of speech are the same

69
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:19pm

re: #57 Maxwell Not So Smart

Apples and oranges.
Which of those attributes would be missing if deceptive cost descrip[tions and misguided subsidies were not there?

Why are we subsidizing a pipe eventually longer than the Keystone pipe? That would be the long tailpipe to the coal plant to re charge the cars. IMO the tech that deserves subsidy is hydrogen fuel cell cars that can help power the home instead of drawing off the grid.

70
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:36pm

re: #63 Big Beautiful Door

Musk is building the gigafactory in Nevada probably as huge Fuck You to those assholes :D

71
lawhawk  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:43pm

Effie Trinket was wrong. The odds are not in NYC’s favor for a miss from the latest snowpocalypse.

72
Barefoot Grin  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:53pm

re: #58 unproven innocence

I’m guessing the conflict was over access to water. Past is prologue.

It was just a squirmish. // (I agree with you’re take; I have no doubt that H/G groups would occasionally battle for best access to water.)

73
goddamnedfrank  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:26:59pm

re: #52 Great White Snark

I was reading about the Chevrolet Bolt. $30,000 they say. Yeah right AFTER the $7500 subsidy/taxbreak/electric car bailout program. That price should not ever be advertised that way.

And what happens when the incentives go away?

Then the advertised price goes up, same as any other rebate program.

74
ausador  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:28:19pm

:)

75
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:28:29pm

re: #69 Great White Snark

There is a better explanation than I can give you at the Wait But Why blog. All questions answered. It will take a couple of days to read it all.

76
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:29:12pm

re: #73 goddamnedfrank

Then the advertised price goes up, same as any other rebate program.

That would be when the big cost increase slams down sales. And folks look back to other kinds of cars. Maybe gasoline, maybe diesel, maybe methane.

77
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:29:29pm

The permanent political class has been doing the bidding of their campaign donor class

i still cant believe that sarah palin is saying this and hillary clinton is not saying it

78
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:29:43pm

re: #74 ausador

:)

[Embedded content]

Santorum is everywhere you want to be (in Iowa)!

79
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:29:53pm

re: #67 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

net/net i think palin clinched the gop nomination for trump but will cause him to lose the general

Today marks another in my evolution in believing Trump can actually win the GOP nomination.

80
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:31:00pm

re: #69 Great White Snark

Why are we subsidizing a pipe eventually longer than the Keystone pipe? That would be the long tailpipe to the coal plant to re charge the cars. IMO the tech that deserves subsidy is hydrogen fuel cell cars that can help power the home instead of drawing off the grid.

???

And whence the power to crack that hydrogen in the first place?

Hydrogen is a kind-of-crappy way to store energy and transport it from place to place. It is not a source.

81
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:31:13pm

Battery powered cars may in the end be as big a mistake as diesel was in Europe. Even without the VW greed.

82
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:33:45pm

re: #81 Great White Snark

I don’t think that the science supports that assumption. The sun is putting all the energy we need on the ground. We only need to pick it up.

83
Lidane  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:34:36pm

Party of Personal Responsibility, you betcha!

84
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:34:59pm

re: #65 The Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts have discovered this photo. Hilarity ensues.

Embedded Image

Vet The Trump!!!!

85
goddamnedfrank  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:35:17pm

re: #69 Great White Snark

Apples and oranges.
Which of those attributes would be missing if deceptive cost descrip[tions and misguided subsidies were not there?

Why are we subsidizing a pipe eventually longer than the Keystone pipe? That would be the long tailpipe to the coal plant to re charge the car. IMO the tech that deserves subsidy is hydrogen fuel cell cars that can help power the home instead of drawing off the grid.

Um, the electrolysis process that generates the hydrogen / oxygen reagents that fuel cells run on is powered via the exact same, currently dirty electrical grid. I have no idea what your complaint is here except that the current grid is unfortunately deeply fossil fuel dependent. That can and will change over time, part of that change is reducing the economy of scale of fossil fuels by incentivizing electrically powered vehicles.

86
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:35:40pm

re: #81 Great White Snark

Battery powered cars may in the end be as big a mistake as diesel was in Europe. Even without the VW greed.

I hope not; we eventually have to get gasoline powered cars off the roads.

87
wrenchwench  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:36:20pm

re: #83 Lidane

Party of Personal Responsibility, you betcha!

[Palin Addresses Son’s Domestic Violence Arrest, Links to Obama’s Disrespect of Veterans]

More likely it comes from Sarah’s lack of respect for women.

88
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:36:26pm

re: #83 Lidane

Party of Personal Responsibility, you betcha!

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

89
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:36:47pm

One can definitely make the claim that hybrids or fully-battery-powered vehicles may be a net negative because of the chain of environmental impact that results from needing the staggering amounts of lithium, battery remanufacture, and stuff like that. Being unhappy that the power is coming from coal plants, well… if you’re not burning gasoline or diesel in your car, the power is coming from the grid somehow. Whether the energy is carried from place to place by wire, by H2 tanker, or by something else? That doesn’t really matter.

90
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:38:14pm

re: #80 Testy Toad T

???

And whence the power to crack that hydrogen in the first place?

Hydrogen is a kind-of-crappy way to store energy and transport it from place to place. It is not a source.

Best explanation of use and distribution-here.
driveclean.ca.gov

Could have made on heck of a lot of H from Porter ranch had it not escaped because of a fracking oil well. Any renewable energy can make hydrogen, same as it makes electricity to put in a rare earth laden battery. A battery with awful prospects for recycling/scrap.

Solar etc might be better utilized via H than the grid system and batteries.

91
A Cranky One  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:38:23pm

I’ve been chuckling about Palin’s “squirmish”.

Then it occurred to me that if it isn’t a word, it should be.

Squirmish: DEF: the battle between adults and small kids at a venue where the kids need to remain seated and quiet, such as church, a funeral, etc.

92
FormerDirtDart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:38:26pm

re: #88 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

Obviously by not letting them fight ISIS

93
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:39:20pm

If Sarah Palin was Black, conservatives would label her daughter a “ghetto welfare queen” and her son would be labeled a “criminal thug”.

94
BeachDem  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:40:29pm

re: #83 Lidane

Party of Personal Responsibility, you betcha!

[Embedded content]

And, most likely, the lead story for every newscast for the next 24 hours. Sigh.

Next on CNN—SE Cupp and Don Lemon discuss how did Obama’s disdain for the military lead to Palin’s son beating up his girlfriend.
/

95
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:40:43pm

AP and their headline writers:

Federal meteorologists announced that Earth last year was the hottest on record

Seth Borenstein is supposedly their senior science writer.

Anyway, no, very few of the NOAA and NASA scientists involved in the climate science are in fact meteorologists.

96
goddamnedfrank  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:41:27pm

re: #89 Testy Toad T

One can definitely make the claim that hybrids or fully-battery-powered vehicles may be a net negative because of the chain of environmental impact that results from needing the staggering amounts of lithium, battery remanufacture, and stuff like that. Being unhappy that the power is coming from coal plants, well… if you’re not burning gasoline or diesel in your car, the power is coming from the grid somehow. Whether the energy is carried from place to place by wire, by H2 tanker, or by something else? That doesn’t really matter.

Also, if you’re running an internal combustion engine you have no choice, you’re driving dirty. If you’re running a plug in electric vehicle you do, you can put solar cells on your roof and drive on clean energy.

It’s not an ideal situation of course because like pretty much all emerging technology it favors those with the means to afford the investment. Unfortunately that’s always how progress works, it rarely benefits the masses first.

97
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:42:23pm

re: #90 Great White Snark

Best explained here.
driveclean.ca.gov

Could have made on heck of a lot of H from Porter ranch had it not escaped because of a fracking oil well. Any renewable energy can make hydrogen, same as it makes electricity to put in a rare earth laden battery. A battery with awful prospects for recycling/scrap.

I am well familiar with the chemistry and physics of fuel cells.

Where are you getting your boundless supply of hydrogen, exactly? It’s neat that the Porter Ranch leak is dumping something like 25 million kg/month of methane that we could crack… even if it were hydrogen, the US goes through something on the order of 5000 million kg/day of oil.

Your solution, she does not scale.

98
Jenner7  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:45:58pm
99
Maxwell Not So Smart  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:46:55pm

Have a nice afternoon have an 8 year old here that won’t let me make him wait any longer to play basketball.

100
CuriousLurker  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:48:25pm

re: #65 The Vicious Babushka

From the thread downstairs:

re: #153 The Vicious Babushka

I don’t know, she appears to be African-American. Maybe some Farrakhan bullshit?

Holy crap! Nope, it’s not Farrakhan either—apparently it’s some sort of “born again” swivel-eyed batshit crazy. I hadn’t heard about “fake Babylonian (Jews)” so I googled it. Note that this guy uses the same term “Synagogue of Satan” that the woman used. After the first couple of insane paragraphs, it really dives down deep into the psychosis—same sort of stuff they say about Muslims—evil, fake symbols, pagan worship of the sun, mention of Khazars, etc. Oh, and apparently the Khazars got the Star of David from the Muslims because Saladin was their hero. O_O Emphasis added:

The Synagogue of Satan Revealed at Last!!

The Babylonian “Jews” originally came from Babylon—the head of gold in Nebuchadnezzar’s vision of the 4 metals.

During the Babylonian Captivity, the real Jews were taken to Babylon and King Nebuchadnezzar colonized Samaria with counterfeit “Jews.”

Their “holy” mount was Mount Gerizin instead of Jerusalem.

The real Jews despised them and called them “devils.”

After the Bar Kokhba revolt of 135 AD, Emperor Hadrian cleared the Holy Land of all Jews-both real and fake….The real Jews either believed in the Jewish Messiah and became Christians or disappeared from history forever. The Babylonian Jews moved to Hispania and renamed it Sepharad. From that time onward they always referred to themselves as “Jews” … and never as Samaritans. […]

donotlink.com

Here’s the guy’s “About” page: donotlink.com

It’s kind of amazing what people will come up with to justify their religion being the only True Religion™ and all others being false/doomed abominations.

101
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:48:59pm
102
Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:49:00pm

re: #93 Dr. Matt

If Sarah Palin was Black, conservatives would label her daughter a “ghetto welfare queen” and her son would be labeled a “criminal thug”.

I’ve actually seen a bunch of stuff like this on FB - Bristol is being characterized as a “whore” and the son as a “wife-beating psycho.” There is ugliness aplenty, no need to really look for it.

103
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:49:14pm

The Monmouth poll out today shows Trump and Cruz about where they were a month ago in the same poll, though Cruz has closed the gap a bit. But it should be noted that Monmouth had the gap last month quite a bit larger than many other pollsters:

104
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:51:15pm

re: #74 ausador

105
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:51:26pm

Trump wildly popular in Florida:

business.fau.edu

106
Barefoot Grin  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:51:27pm

A question for Sarah might be “what kind of help is Track getting to deal with his PTSD and alcohol problems?” He clearly has problems and needs help. I think the first step would be out the front door of his parents’ house.

107
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:52:09pm

re: #105 freetoken

Trump wildly popular in Florida:

business.fau.edu

lol@rubio

That is all.

108
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:52:35pm

In Florida, the two Floridians combined, Jeb! and Rubio, combined don’t even get up to half of Trump’s popularity.

109
goddamnedfrank  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:53:17pm

Here’s a good article on the comparison between batteries and fuel cells for vehicle use.

So, to get a fuel cell stack that would be comparable to a Model S would cost about $17,000 (if FCEV production could somehow get up to 500,000 vehicles per year beforehand). That’s not really all that bad. But, there is a twist here. The fuel cell in cars actually degrades over time, losing performance. Right now, the state of the art fuel cell is losing about 10% performance after just 2,500 hours. That’s about 75,000 miles. Perhaps that’s not all that bad. After all, how often do you really mash the accelerator? (For the purposes of this discussion, let’s ignore how I drive). You’d think that. But what this really means is that your 10-year-old car is going to feel worn out. And it will be, with ever-decreasing available performance. It also means that one of the fundamental things people complain about regarding BEVs also applies to FCVs: Critical components fundamentally wear out, and will at some point require an expensive replacement, even with the best possible care. For comparison, it’s estimated that Tesla has already broken the $200/kWh battery cost, making the illustrious Model S 85 battery cost about … you guessed it: $17,000. Now, yes, fuel cells will get cheaper, but Tesla is building a Gigafactory expected to drop costs by an additional 30%. That trend of decreasing costs won’t end soon for either technology. Given how well Teslas have performed, it may actually turn out that the batteries are more resilient than the fuel cells that hope to replace them, and at comparable cost.

The Fuel for Fuel Cells

The cost of fuel is the other issue with fuel cell economics. Electricity is relatively cheap, but hydrogen fuel is pretty expensive. Right now, state-of-the-art hydrogen extraction from natural gas, pressurized and delivered to the customer, costs about $4.50 for a gallon of gasoline equivalent (GGe). Since the fuel is derived from natural gas, and requires a lot of electricity to compress, store, and dispense, the net global warming potential reduction for the fuel is modest compared to hybrids like the Prius, let alone BEVs. Hydrogen production from fossil fuels is a mature technology because there are industrial uses for the gas. As a result, price reductions are unlikely. You can produce hydrogen from renewable energy, but costs escalate quickly. Right now, it’s between $6.00 and $11.00 per GGe. That’s actually assuming economies of scale that don’t exist right now. Yes, that’s right, your highly expensive new-fangled fuel cell automobile will also cost you between 3 to 5 times the current price for fuel, to actually make a difference in CO2 emissions, and it won’t actually do all that much better on that fuel than the Prius in terms of fuel economy.

110
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:53:49pm
111
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:53:53pm

re: #102 Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)

I’ve actually seen a bunch of stuff like this on FB - Bristol is being characterized as a “whore” and the son as a “wife-beating psycho.” There is ugliness aplenty, no need to really look for it.

Bristol (and her mother) is a RWNJ, a complete raving lunatic, and a hypocrite. But, I would never label her a whore. And anyone that beats their wife is a “wife-beating psycho”. If he is untreated for PTSD, I’ll change my tune. But, he joined the army to avoid jail time, so clearly he is inclined to be a criminal.

112
unproven innocence  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:55:03pm

re: #72 Barefoot Grin

It was just a squirmish. // (I agree with you’re take; I have no doubt that H/G groups would occasionally battle for best access to water.)

Not to mention the simplifications for hunting.

113
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:55:34pm

re: #88 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

He’s breathing.

He’s in the White House and Sarah isn’t.

Take your pick.

114
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:55:40pm

When in doubt, blame Obama.

115
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:57:32pm

re: #88 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

He brought them home out of harm’s way from two senseless wars. Fucking prick.

//

116
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:57:59pm
117
WhatEVs  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:59:06pm

re: #105 freetoken

Trump wildly popular in Florida:

business.fau.edu

It’s Florida, Man.

118
nines09  Jan 20, 2016 • 12:59:54pm

re: #93 Dr. Matt

If Sarah Palin was Black, conservatives would label her daughter a “ghetto welfare queen” and her son would be labeled a “criminal thug”.

I’ll label her a dysfunctional grifter whose chase for money and fame has injured her children.She is the Queen of Piety and Self Righteous Hypocrisy and if her family was black and she a Democrat, she would be reviled by the GOP. Even as a mother she sucks. She’s one more spot on example of what is wrong with America.

119
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:00:29pm
120
Testy Toad T  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:01:33pm

I can’t put a finger on why, but Fiorina seems to be the most if-I-want-it-hard-enough-it’ll-happen of the clowncar.

PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEE

121
Shiplord Kirel  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:05:25pm

re: #88 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

He has denied them further chances for honor and recognition. Why, before Obama took office thousands of Purple Hearts were being awarded every year, with the Pentagon chewing inexorably through the huge stockpile made in 1945 for the cancelled invasion of Japan. Today only a few are being awarded, with the stockpile likely to last centuries at the present rate.

122
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:06:46pm

Yesterday, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, spoke with Family Research Council President Tony Perkins on the “Washington Watch” radio program about the U.S. prisoner swap with Iran, with both expressing outrage about the deal.

The two appeared to believe that this is the first time ever that the U.S. has negotiated such an agreement, with Poe insisting that now governments or groups that detain Americans will expect to barter with the U.S. government for other prisoners or money, which apparently they never thought of before the negotiations with Iran.

Perkins said that Ronald Reagan would have never made such a deal: “Long gone are the days of Ronald Reagan when we said, ‘We don’t negotiate with terrorists.’ Now we make all kinds of deals and it just appears that America comes out on the short end of the deal.”

123
Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:08:28pm

re: #111 Dr. Matt

Bristol (and her mother) is a RWNJ, a complete raving lunatic, and a hypocrite. But, I would never label her a whore. And anyone that beats their wife is a “wife-beating psycho”. If he was untreated for PTSD, I’ll change my tune. But, he joined the army to avoid jail time, so clearly he is inclined to be a criminal.

There is that. If he truly has PTSD, shouldn’t he have sought treatment for that condition? And if he didn’t - well, then. There’s a difference between PTSD and just being a drunken asshole. The former gets treated down at the VA. The latter gets treated in County Jail, by means of a beat-down from the other prisoners in the exercise yard.

124
Dr. Matt  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:10:34pm

re: #123 Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)

There’s a difference between PTSD and just being a drunken asshole.

Boom. Drop the mic.

125
nines09  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:12:32pm

re: #122 Kragar

The Cargo Cult in all their Cowboy Worshipping Glory. Reagan would have nuked Iran along with the soon to be released detainees in their world. And they would have stood and cheered. Hard guys. Someone ought to shove about 500 mg Thorazine down their throats.

126
Jenner7  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:13:18pm

You don’t say…

127
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:16:42pm

re: #126 Jenner7

You don’t say…

IMPEACH!!!!

128
Kragar  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:16:44pm

re: #126 Jenner7

Limbaugh’s big “bombshell” this morning?

Bill Clinton and some of the other Clinton organizations had email accounts on the same server, which Rush said meant “THEY ALL HAD ACCESS TO THE SECRET INFO!”

No, Rush, that isn’t how email servers work.

129
FormerDirtDart  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:17:32pm
130
Belafon  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:18:00pm

re: #128 Kragar

Limbaugh’s big “bombshell” this morning?

Bill Clinton and some of the other Clinton organizations had email accounts on the same server, which Rush said meant “THEY ALL HAD ACCESS TO THE SECRET INFO!”

No, Rush, that isn’t how email servers work.

And none of it was classified at the time.

131
EPR-radar  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:18:49pm

re: #122 Kragar

The first rule of conservatism is to not talk about past conservatism.

These asswipes probably think Iran-contra is a Clinton-era scandal.

132
Dave In Austin  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:18:53pm

re: #128 Kragar

Limbaugh’s big “bombshell” this morning?

Bill Clinton and some of the other Clinton organizations had email accounts on the same server, which Rush said meant “THEY ALL HAD ACCESS TO THE SECRET INFO!”

No, Rush, that isn’t how email servers work.

That are all perpetrating a mixing of the bits…….

133
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:19:24pm

re: #119 Kragar

Admit it: You cannot wait to see me debate Hillary Clinton this fall. t.co
— Carly Fiorina

CCJ, is that you?

134
Shiplord Kirel  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:19:48pm

re: #131 EPR-radar

The first rule of conservatism is to not talk about past conservatism.

These asswipes probably think Iran-contra is a Clinton-era scandal.

Sure, part of the same pattern as Obama’s Hurricane Katrina foul-ups.

135
Billy Batts  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:20:25pm

re: #88 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Just to humor her, how exactly has Obama disrespected the troops?

By breathing.

136
freetoken  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:20:27pm

Headline fail:

Temperatures rising: How humanity’s heat output affecting our oceans

It’s more than the headline - it’s failure in the article proper:

The amount of heat energy produced by humans and absorbed by ocean waters has doubled since 1997, according to a study published in Nature Climate Change Monday.

Long ago I concluded that these topics are just too difficult for journalists and for frankly too large a wedge of our society. That’s one reason we can’t get any real solution for problems like these.

137
ObserverArt  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:20:53pm

re: #126 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

You don’t say…

But yesterday CNN said…awww screw it.

They are going to hype her emails all the way through however far she goes in the elections and once she is either done with elections or out of office you will never hear of a Hillary State Department ever again.

138
ObserverArt  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:24:55pm

re: #127 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

IMPEACH!!!!

Thanks…you caused me to pull up this image.

139
ausador  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:32:48pm

re: #127 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

IMPEACH!!!!

Ted Nugent: Hang her!!!

140
Great White Snark  Jan 20, 2016 • 1:45:15pm

re: #97 Testy Toad T

I am well familiar with the chemistry and physics of fuel cells.

Where are you getting your boundless supply of hydrogen, exactly? It’s neat that the Porter Ranch leak is dumping something like 25 million kg/month of methane that we could crack… even if it were hydrogen, the US goes through something on the order of 5000 million kg/day of oil.

Your solution, she does not scale.

I never said boundless, I said better than batteries. The only boundless substance in combustion is air right? They scaled up for steam with coal. They scaled up ships for whale oil. They once started to scale up for H. Then they scaled up for fossil fuels. Now they are scaling up solar, wind and water. Scale is no more difficult to solve now than it was back when.

It’s more than a little self deceptive to claim electric cars are zero emission. And then the replacement batteries are hell on the earth to make.


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