Josh Marshall on Donald Trump’s Triumph of the Will

Breaking the political system because he can
Opinion • Views: 72,979

Josh Marshall makes some excellent points about the reasons why Donald Trump continues to dominate Republican politics, and why this is potentially disastrous for the US political system; he’s basically exploiting a system of dominance through humiliation in a new and very disturbing way: The Trumph of the Will.

Trump doesn’t apologize. He hurts people and they go away. He says things that would kill a political mortal (ban members of an entire religion from entering the country) and yet he doesn’t get hurt. Virtually everything Trump has done over the last six months, whether it’s a policy proposal or personal attack, has driven home this basic point: Trump is strong. He does things other people can’t.

This is why Trump has so shaken up and so dominated the GOP primary cycle, at least thus far. As I’ve said, this kind of dominance symbolism is pervasive in GOP politics. It’s not new with Trump at all. Most successful Republican politicians speak this language. And yet somehow for most it is nonetheless a second language. But it’s Trump’s native language. I still believe it’s rooted in the mix of the hyper-aggressive New York real estate world, his decades of immersion in the city’s febrile tabloid culture and just being, at the most basic level, a bully. Wherever it comes from, he seems to intuitively get that for this constituency and at this moment just demonstrating that he gets his way, always, is all that really matters. Policy details, protecting the candidate through careful press releases and structured media opportunities … none of that matters. Trump doesn’t kiss babies. Babies kiss him. He doesn’t have a billionaire backer; he is a billionaire. Trump doesn’t ask for support. He just tells you that you need to stop being a loser and get on board.

So this debate power play is all of a piece. He can just take the table, flip it over and walk out of the room. It’s all about him.

Jump to bottom

327 comments
1
Kryptik  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:49:15pm

A lot of people truly outright love bullies and wish they could be a bully, because bullies are strong. Being able to hate and abuse something and not pay a penance for that is the real American dream for far too many people.

2
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:52:46pm
3
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:53:43pm

Triumph Of The Ill more like.

4
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:54:19pm

re: #1 Kryptik

A lot of people truly outright love bullies and wish they could be a bully, because bullies are strong. Being able to hate and abuse something and not pay a penance for that is the real American dream for far too many people.

Indeed, that’s Trump’s appeal. His supporters are the bully’s lackey that snickers while the bully is calling you every name in the book.

5
TedStriker  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:54:29pm

re: #1 Kryptik

A lot of people truly outright love bullies and wish they could be a bully, because bullies are strong. Being able to hate and abuse something and not pay a penance for that is the real American dream for far too many people.

See: Bundy, Cliven; Bundy, Ammon; Bundy, Ryan; and associates.

6
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:57:34pm

Its been enjoyable watching Trump blow the GOP up.

7
Kryptik  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:58:15pm

re: #3 Great White Snark

Triumph Of The Ill more like.

Triumph of the Mental.

re: #6 Big Beautiful Door

Its been enjoyable watching Trump blow the GOP up.

I’m not going to believe it’s blown up until I see the election results and even then. Look what happened the last time we considered the GOP in ruins: they took over most of the country on the state-level below and wiped the Dems in mid-terms. They essentially own the argument every time they’re on TV because they have stenographers working for them in the news, and get to turn around and accuse us of propaganda at all levels. And that projection works works, over and over and over again.

Even if Trump and the GOP lose this election on the presidential level, considering them ‘blown up’ is a dangerous mindset to take.

8
Kragar  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:59:04pm

Triumph of the Shrill

9
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:59:10pm

OT early, apologies.

10
Le Lapin Tueur  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:59:33pm

It may work well with the lackwits in the GOP. It won’t work on the international stage.

11
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 12:59:42pm

re: #7 Kryptik

Triumph of the Mental.

Triumph of the Shill

12
Kragar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:00:03pm
13
Timothy Watson  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:01:01pm

re: #9 Jenner7

OT early, apologies.

[Embedded content]

Am I too far out there if I suggest that Synder should be charged with treason against the people of Michigan?

14
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:01:57pm

re: #6 Big Beautiful Door

Its been enjoyable watching Trump blow the GOP up.

I won’t enjoy it until he’s not the next President.

15
Kryptik  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:02:23pm

re: #13 Timothy Watson

Am I too far out there if I suggest that Synder should be charged with treason against the people of Michigan?

Of course you are. He’s Republican for god’s sake.

16
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:02:48pm

re: #10 Le Lapin Tueur

It may work well with the lackwits in the GOP. It won’t work on the national stage.

Exactly. Trump is the least liked candidate among the general electorate. If he’s the nominee, not only will we keep the White House, we’ll probably get the Senate back and hopefully make a good dent in the GOP’s House majority.

17
Kryptik  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:04:10pm

re: #10 Le Lapin Tueur

It may work well with the lackwits in the GOP. It won’t work on the international stage.

re: #16 Big Beautiful Door

Exactly. Trump is the least liked candidate among the general electorate. If he’s the nominee, not only will we keep the White House, we’ll probably get the Senate back and hopefully make a good dent in the GOP’s House majority.

Again, I’ll believe it when I see it. How many of those will fall in line if Trump gets the nomination, simply because he has an R by his name, or perhaps more importantly, just because he doesn’t have a D by his name?

18
Kragar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:04:17pm

10 minutes after I take the turbo-laxatives right in front of my wife,

“Don’t forget we need to head to the store.”

WHY DIDN’T YOU STOP ME BEFORE THIS?”

19
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:05:12pm

re: #6 Big Beautiful Door

Its been enjoyable watching Trump blow the GOP up.

Yeah, hopefully though it ends with that and him not getting elected. Otherwise he could very well blow the USA up too.

20
sagehen  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:06:57pm

re: #17 Kryptik

Again, I’ll believe it when I see it. How many of those will fall in line if Trump gets the nomination, simply because he has an R by his name, or perhaps more importantly, just because he doesn’t have a D by his name?

Or because he gives the RSCC and RCCC, and each candidate, a pile of money. With strings attached.

21
Dave In Austin  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:07:22pm

re: #18 Kragar

10 minutes after I take the turbo-laxatives right in front of my wife,

“Don’t forget we need to head to the store.”

WHY DIDN’T YOU STOP ME BEFORE THIS?”

DO NOT trust your asshole for the next 24 hrs. It will betray you when you least expect it.

22
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:08:24pm

re: #18 Kragar

10 minutes after I take the turbo-laxatives right in front of my wife,

“Don’t forget we need to head to the store.”

WHY DIDN’T YOU STOP ME BEFORE THIS?”

It’s a test.

There is always a test…before the test.

/

23
Kragar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:10:10pm

re: #21 Dave In Austin

DO NOT trust your asshole for the next 24 hrs. It will betray you when you least expect it.

I haven’t trusted it in years

24
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:10:27pm

Donald Trump’s candidacy is the chicken of the sin of Reality Television, coming home to roost.

A big, loud, orange sin chicken. With a stupid hat.

25
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:11:40pm
I still believe it’s rooted in the mix of the hyper-aggressive New York real estate world, his decades of immersion in the city’s febrile tabloid culture and just being, at the most basic level, a bully.

America is hungering for a strong man.

26
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:12:32pm

O/T somewhat (since Dreher at The American Conservative is blaming the rise of Trump to some degree on “hyper-pluralism” and the lack of a “sacramental understanding” of society, time and culture. Hey, he is the one pushing this pseudo intellectual tripe…)

Oh brother…

27
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:12:42pm

re: #17 Kryptik

Again, I’ll believe it when I see it. How many of those will fall in line if Trump gets the nomination, simply because he has an R by his name, or perhaps more importantly, just because he doesn’t have a D by his name?

I’ll remind you that Obama got a majority of the vote in 2008 and 2012, and whites will be an even smaller percentage of the electorate this year than either of those years.

28
retired cynic  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:12:53pm

re: #25 freetoken

America is hungering for a strong man.

We have one. The strongest one I can ever remember!

29
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:13:54pm
30
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:14:12pm

re: #19 ObserverArt

Yeah, hopefully though it ends with that and him not getting elected. Otherwise he could very well blow the USA up too.

The GOP is a failed state.

slate.com

31
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:15:54pm

re: #26 Aunty Entity Dragon

O/T somewhat (since Dreher at The American Conservative is blaming the rise of Trump to some degree on “hyper-pluralism” and the lack of a “sacramental understanding” of society, time and culture. Hey, he is the one pushing this pseudo intellectual tripe…)

Oh brother…

My understanding of society is that we’re a bunch of people living together, and that the goal should be to maximize the well-being of the greatest number of people. If God has a problem with that, He can punish America himself; he doesn’t need Dreher’s help.

32
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:16:28pm

Doing his best to stir trouble:

33
Kragar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:18:04pm

I’m convinced the Trump rally is just going to be him heckling the GOP debate as it happens

34
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:18:10pm

Whether or not it’s Trump being savvy or Trump finding his natural level, his shtick works because its matches the culture that the Republicans have cultivated for decades.

If you want to understand the other failure that led to Trump, go read people like Frum and Brooks, who are still rationalizing that “serious conservatives” had managed to sway the base with big ideas. Which is tosh: chumming the waters with racial resentments, religious resentments, and conspiracy theories has been how a bunch of people have been herded. Indeed the anger and lies have gotten bigger and bigger just to keep the base engaged. Think how much money, energy, and time is devoted to keeping nutty ideas imminent and immediately threatening. The base actually believes they’re under threat. Quarter measures by guys mostly interested in bilking state coffers aren’t cutting it…and the base are convinced that it’s not checks and balances that make their policies fail—or get thrown out in court—but the conspiracy.

(You can actually watch exactly the same thing happening in wingnut religion. The “intellectuals” are yammering about spiritual awakenings, the intense believers are less interested in doctrine than in having their anger and vanity sated. Because…that’s the theology that televangelists built!)

Poison is determined by the dose.

35
Kryptik  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:18:21pm

re: #27 Big Beautiful Door

I’ll remind you that Obama got a majority of the vote in 2008 and 2012, and whites will be an even smaller percentage of the electorate this year than either of those years.

It’s not 2008/2012, and none of the candidates we’ll have, for better or worse, are Obama this time around. Taking this for granted is dangerous sledding, and Trump’s rhetoric alone, win or lose, is dangerous enough if there’s not good pushback.

36
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:19:25pm

re: #33 Kragar

I’m convinced the Trump rally is just going to be him heckling the GOP debate as it happens

No need to watch that. LGF Lizards are better at it and hell of a lot more fun and witty.

37
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:19:53pm

Not hard to run a campaign when you can say what you want, do what you want, and get free air time.

GOP is complicit. Media is complicit. And we will be if we continue to take this man seriously.

38
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:20:56pm

“I’m an East Coast rap guy. I love Biggie! Loved him to death. Great golfer, that guy. Ted Cruz isn’t even a West Coast rap guy. He’s a CANADIAN rap guy.”

- Tha DT

39
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:21:08pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

No need to watch that. LGF Lizards are better at it and hell of a lot more fun and witty.

The other campaigns need to have people on twitter specifically to reply to every Trump tweet with “But you’re too chickenshit to be at the debate.”

40
allegro  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:21:10pm

re: #25 freetoken

America is hungering for a strong man.

Trump is strong like a dog fart, an enveloping cloud of stench that cannot be ignored.

41
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:21:44pm

re: #35 Kryptik

It’s not 2008/2012, and none of the candidates we’ll have, for better or worse, are Obama this time around. Taking this for granted is dangerous sledding, and Trump’s rhetoric alone, win or lose, is dangerous enough if there’s not good pushback.

I’m confident that Hillary and her team won’t take it for granted, and will work like hell to get our voters out. She will, I’m sure, select a VP with strong appeal to African-American or Hispanic voters, because we are now long past the day when an all-white ticket is acceptable.

42
lawhawk  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:22:40pm
43
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:22:44pm

re: #31 Belafon

My understanding of society is that we’re a bunch of people living together, and that the goal should be to maximize the well-being of the greatest number of people. If God has a problem with that, He can punish America himself; he doesn’t need Dreher’s help.

Rod had been claiming for the last year or so that Western Civilization all went wrong with the Enlightenment.

Now he claims it all went wrong with William of Ockham and the formation of nominalist thinking (look it up if you want. I have no patience for metaphysical bullshit).

In any event, this lays his formation for a decayed America that just isn’t good enough for Real Super Duper Sacramental Benedictine Christians like him.

See, if we were all like Rod, Trump would never happen. It s all so simple.

Of course, we would also be dead by the age of 45, stirring our urine to look for imbalances in our bodily humours and dealing with random rape and beatings from the local lord…but it would be a sacramental life!

44
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:23:50pm

re: #43 Aunty Entity Dragon

Rod had been claiming for the last year or so that Western Civilization all went wrong with the Enlightenment.

Now he claims it all went wrong with William of Ockham and the formation of nominalist thinking (look it up if you want. I have no patience for metaphysical bullshit).

In any event, this lays his formation for a decayed America that just isn’t good enough for Real Super Duper Sacramental Benedictine Christians like him.

See, if we were all like Rod, Trump wold never happen. It s all so simple.

Of course, we would also be dead by the age of 45, stirring our urine to look for imbalances in our bodily humours and dealing with random rape and beatings from the local lord…but it would be a sacramental life!

Guys like Rod have a big problem with progress.

45
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:24:26pm

re: #39 Belafon

The other campaigns need to have people on twitter specifically to reply to every Trump tweet with “But you’re too chickenshit to be at the debate.”

Heh. Time to bring out a Trump pinata for each candidate on stage. And every time they get a chance to make a dig at Trump they get to put on a blindfold and take a swing at the pinata just behind them.

Of course if things get a little wild and one of them clobbers another with the small club, well more fun for the viewing audience.

Now that would be good TV!

46
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:25:28pm

re: #40 allegro

Trump is strong like a dog fart, an enveloping cloud of stench that cannot be ignored.

Hey, that reminds me. I was gonna announce we should all start calling him Donald Lump.

/

47
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:25:51pm

re: #13 Timothy Watson

Am I too far out there if I suggest that Synder should be charged with treason against the people of Michigan?

Yes, if only because if you allow a charge of treason against a state, you open up a pandora’s box that should remain dead and buried. First, it gives neo-confederates another argument that state sovereignty is on par with federal sovereignty. Second, it will become a political tool when an elected official or federal judge decides and issue that goes against a state (let’s say that Michigan sues Ohio, case gets heard in federal court in Ohio and the court sides with Michigan). Third, there are other alternatives, either some sort of impeachment or recall (I’m guessing).

48
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:26:58pm

re: #45 ObserverArt

Heh. Time to bring out one a Trump pinata for each candidate on stage. And every time they get a chance to make a dig at Trump they get to put on a blindfold and take a swing at the pinata just behind them.

Of course if things get a little wild and one of them clobbers another with the small club, well more fun for the viewing audience.

Now that would be good TV!

I bet Trump will hardly be mentioned. They will all be attacking each other to get position in the race. Cruz has to finish ahead of Rubio in Iowa, and Rubio has to finish ahead of the rest of the pack in NH and vice versa.

49
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:27:28pm

re: #43 Aunty Entity Dragon

1500s?

Aztecs had a pretty sacramental life, too, yo.

50
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:27:32pm

re: #47 KGxvi

I think you meant to start with no, not yes.

51
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:27:55pm
52
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:28:27pm

The campfire kids better get ready for visitors.

53
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:28:45pm

re: #50 Belafon

I think you meant to start with no, not yes.

I meant it as “yes, you are too far out there…”

54
EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:29:25pm

re: #13 Timothy Watson

Am I too far out there if I suggest that Synder should be charged with treason against the people of Michigan?

Tainting a water supply seems like the kind of attack on infrastructure that can be harshly punished under US terrorism law.

55
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:29:29pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

The campfire kids better get ready for visitors.

[Embedded content]

How many of those idiots are left? Do they still have a live stream on youtube?

56
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:29:30pm

re: #53 KGxvi

I meant it as “yes, you are too far out there…”

OK. I forgot the original question.

57
Eventual Carrion  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:30:04pm

re: #55 Big Beautiful Door

How many of those idiots are left? Do they still have a live stream on youtube?

4 last I knew.

58
thecommodore  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:30:40pm

What I hope is that either Hillary or Bernie Sanders doesn’t take Trump’s bait in the way Jeb Bush has. Stay above the fray. Keep to the issues. But if Trump keeps forcing the issue, daring either one of them to go into the muck, they should do it with the intention of knocking him out. Obama followed this strategy masterfully in 2008 and it left McCain and Palin twisting in the wind.

59
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:30:55pm

re: #29 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Capt Moroni hasn’t been at the refuge for a long time.
Looks like leaving early won’t necessarily prevent charges being filed.

60
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:31:46pm

re: #59 Backwoods_Sleuth

Capt Moroni hasn’t been at the refuge for a long time.
Looks like leaving early won’t necessarily prevent charges being filed.

Not after all the evidence they helpfully compiled against themselves.

61
allegro  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:31:50pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

The campfire kids better get ready for visitors.

[Embedded content]

They should be taking all of those involved in shackles to clean up their mess under armed guards.

62
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:32:25pm

re: #48 Big Beautiful Door

My guess is everyone on stage and the moderators will take every opportunity to point out that Donald Trump doesn’t respect voters enough to appear at a long scheduled debate because he has a problem with one of the moderators… “and if he’s going to throw a tantrum like this, what happens the first time one of our allies disagrees with him?”

63
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:32:49pm

re: #49 Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis

1500s?

Aztecs had a pretty sacramental life, too, yo.

I’m guessing that ‘pagans’ do not count for these discussions.

64
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:33:13pm

re: #59 Backwoods_Sleuth

Capt Moroni hasn’t been at the refuge for a long time.
Looks like leaving early won’t necessarily prevent charges being filed.

I think the group was told that everyone but him could go free, and the rest said we’re not leaving unless all of us get to leave without any charges.

65
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:33:23pm

re: #38 Pawn of the Oppressor

“I’m an East Coast rap guy. I love Biggie! Loved him to death. Great golfer, that guy. Ted Cruz isn’t even a West Coast rap guy. He’s a CANADIAN rap guy.”

- Tha DT

NWeh? : Straight outta Moncton

66
allegro  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:33:27pm

re: #58 thecommodore

What I hope is that either Hillary or Bernie Sanders doesn’t take Trump’s bait in the way Jeb Bush has. Stay above the fray. Keep to the issues. But if Trump keeps forcing the issue, daring either one of them to go into the muck, they should do it with the intention of knocking him out. Obama followed this strategy masterfully in 2008 and it left McCain and Palin twisting in the wind.

Hillary is more than capable, and no doubt giddily willing, to do just that. I think Bernie would just lose it.

67
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:34:11pm

re: #63 Aunty Entity Dragon

I’m guessing that ‘pagans’ do not count for these discussions.

Pagans never count… that’s why their holy scriptures are considered “myths and legends” while Christian holy scriptures are The Truth (r).

68
EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:34:31pm

re: #43 Aunty Entity Dragon

Rod had been claiming for the last year or so that Western Civilization all went wrong with the Enlightenment.

Now he claims it all went wrong with William of Ockham and the formation of nominalist thinking (look it up if you want. I have no patience for metaphysical bullshit).

In any event, this lays his formation for a decayed America that just isn’t good enough for Real Super Duper Sacramental Benedictine Christians like him.

See, if we were all like Rod, Trump would never happen. It s all so simple.

Of course, we would also be dead by the age of 45, stirring our urine to look for imbalances in our bodily humours and dealing with random rape and beatings from the local lord…but it would be a sacramental life!

Dreher argues that we should all have the mindless religious zealotry of illiterate twelfth century peasants. He does this with a bunch of $50 vocabulary words.

I’m surprised there’s any market at all for this self-contradictory nonsense.

69
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:34:55pm

re: #66 allegro

Hillary is more than capable, and no doubt giddily willing, to do just that. I think Bernie would just lose it.

If Bernie will stick to turning every attack back to a question about economics, he’ll be OK.

70
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:35:04pm

re: #43 Aunty Entity Dragon

Rod had been claiming for the last year or so that Western Civilization all went wrong with the Enlightenment.

Yes and all the ‘democracy’ and ‘human rights’ bullshIt that followed it. Why couldn’t we be content with church rule?

/

71
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:35:18pm

re: #62 KGxvi

My guess is everyone on stage and the moderators will take every opportunity to point out that Donald Trump doesn’t respect voters enough to appear at a long scheduled debate because he has a problem with one of the moderators… “and if he’s going to throw a tantrum like this, what happens the first time one of our allies disagrees with him?”

Keep in mind, however, that Rubio which much prefer that Trump win Iowa than Cruz; he wants the race to be between him and Trump, not between Trump and Cruz.

72
Billy Batts  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:35:42pm
73
ausador  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:36:20pm
74
Stanley Sea  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:36:40pm
75
thecommodore  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:37:02pm

re: #66 allegro

Hillary is more than capable, and no doubt giddily willing, to do just that. I think Bernie would just lose it.

I’m not sure about that. Bernie has mostly resisted attacking Clinton, and it’s helped him so far. But Trump would certainly go after him in the way he’s attacked Bush, portraying him as weak for the way he surrendered the mic to Black Lives Matter protesters at one of his rallies last Year (he keeps harping on that). Such an attack might be bad optically, even for Trump (big guy attacking a smaller, older man), but Bernie would need to respond swiftly and effectively.

76
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:37:30pm

re: #48 Big Beautiful Door

I bet Trump will hardly be mentioned. They will all be attacking each other to get position in the raceCruz has to finish ahead of Rubio in Iowa, and Rubio has to finish ahead of the rest of the pack in NH and vice versa.

I think they have to mention him. If they don’t they will be called out for ducking the top runner. But you are right, they will have to attack each other too. Might it be where they start to tie Cruz into being Trump Lite and an early Trump butt kisser and saying to look at where that got Teddy. And the others use Trump as a measure of how much each one is like or not like Trump.

Trump dumping on them (if he actually does*) sure does place them in a bit of a jam.

-
* Would anyone be surprised if he does come out on stage after all the others are announced and in place. He could come out in a gold lame cape…just like the Godfather of Soul. It would be a WWE type entry…with stage fog and swirling spot lights. And then he would say…”I know you all would miss me, and I make these debates fun!”

77
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:37:57pm

Trump trumpets:

32.7%

Three significant digits… when the entire poll (not just Republicans) is only 600 people:
mtsupoll.org

78
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:39:18pm

re: #55 Big Beautiful Door

How many of those idiots are left? Do they still have a live stream on youtube?

Four still there. Don’t know about the YT stream today.
Watching the militia version of a yule log on the screen put me to sleep last night.

79
Nature'sMasterpiece  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:39:36pm

re: #66 allegro

I’m not sure exactly why you seem to think that but from what I have seen from the two campaigns is that Clinton has no problem going on the attack and the Sanders campaign has done a much better job of sticking to the issues. Why do you think it would be any different is she was up against Trump?

80
BlueSpotinAL  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:40:35pm

This onion article is so on target:
theonion.com

81
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:40:47pm

Sorry to keep harping about this, but this guy is something else.

82
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:41:05pm

re: #70 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Yes and all the ‘democracy’ and ‘human rights’ bullshIt that followed it. Why couldn’t we be content with church rule?

/

83
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:42:00pm

re: #77 freetoken

Methodology
Telephone interviews for the poll were completed by Issues & Answers Network Inc. from among a random sample of registered Tennessee voters age 18 and over. Data were collected using Tennessee statewide voter registration sample of 60 percent landline and 40 percent cell phones. The average interview length was 12 minutes. Quotas by gender and Grand Region were implemented. Data were weighted based on respondent age to ensure the data represent Tennessee registered voters. The survey’s error margin of 4 percentage points indicates one can be 95 percent confident that the actual population figure lies within 4 percentage points (in either direction) of the poll result. Error margins for subgroups can be larger, depending on the subgroup’s size.

How do polling professionals account for the skew toward people who are willing to answer telephone pollsters for 12 minutes?

84
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:42:19pm

re: #64 Belafon

I think the group was told that everyone but him could go free, and the rest said we’re not leaving unless all of us get to leave without any charges.

Different Anderson.
Dylan Anderson is Capt Moroni.
Sean Anderson is the chunky guy who is one of the four holdouts sitting around the campfire when he’s not screaming into the camera about killing LEOs and bloodbaths.

85
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:43:26pm

re: #77 freetoken

Trump trumpets:

32.7%

Three significant digits… when the entire poll (not just Republicans) is only 600 people:
mtsupoll.org

I know it’s irrelevant, but Northeastern Christie leading Floridian Jeb! is pretty amazing. Where is Dr. Randy Paul in this poll? He’s surging, surging I tell you.

86
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:43:32pm

re: #84 Backwoods_Sleuth

Different Anderson.
Dylan Anderson is Capt Moroni.
Sean Anderson is the chunky guy who is one of the four holdouts sitting around the campfire when he’s not screaming into the camera about killing LEOs and bloodbaths.

OK. Thanks.

87
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:43:42pm

re: #59 Backwoods_Sleuth

Capt Moroni hasn’t been at the refuge for a long time.
Looks like leaving early won’t necessarily prevent charges being filed.

Ain’t nothing like a Federal Indictment to complicate your life.

88
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:44:03pm

re: #81 Jenner7

Sorry to keep harping about this, but this guy is something else.

LEAVE TRUMP ALOOOOOOOONEEE

89
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:44:15pm
90
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:44:19pm

re: #84 Backwoods_Sleuth

Different Anderson.
Dylan Anderson is Capt Moroni.
Sean Anderson is the chunky guy who is one of the four holdouts sitting around the campfire when he’s not screaming into the camera about killing LEOs and bloodbaths.

Captain Moroni and Captain Chunky.

91
Nyet  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:45:44pm

I love the “no fucks given” Obama.

White House backs Treasury view that Russia’s Putin is corrupt

92
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:45:49pm

re: #51 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

I’d love to see Rachel go after Trump. I think she could handle it without getting flustered by his BS and actually ask him why he has to be such an ass about things. And she would not be the least bit intimidated to ask him how he is going to do some of the stupid shit he claims…which all the others seem to fail to do.

I’d take Rachel over Meygn Kelly any day.

I bet Trump makes all kinds of demands as to what he can be asked and what he will answer, etc. Just like last evening when he asked Bill O’Reilly not to ask him about reconsidering his withdrawal. Such a big tough guy.

93
No Depression  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:46:26pm

re: #43 Aunty Entity Dragon

Rod had been claiming for the last year or so that Western Civilization all went wrong with the Enlightenment.

Doesn’t he realize that the Enlightenment is the reason he can live in a country where he’s free to change his religion at the drop of a hat without having to worry about some yokel screaming HERETIC!!!111!!!!1 at him and burning him at the stake?

94
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:46:39pm

Not really a fan of some of the other stuff from Rubiconski, but ths was funny.

95
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:48:37pm
96
Charles Johnson  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:49:24pm
97
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:49:26pm
98
sagehen  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:49:57pm

re: #45 ObserverArt

Heh. Time to bring out a Trump pinata for each candidate on stage. And every time they get a chance to make a dig at Trump they get to put on a blindfold and take a swing at the pinata just behind them.

Of course if things get a little wild and one of them clobbers another with the small club, well more fun for the viewing audience.

Now that would be good TV!

Wouldn’t it be funny if they just… don’t mention him. At all. Instead, they each lay out legislative proposals, budget priorities, a specific foreign policy vision with regards to the Middle East, Asia, Russia, Central America, administrative solutions to enumerated issues at the VA, EPA, FDA…

A girl can dream, right?

99
Timothy Watson  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:50:12pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

ONOES ITS THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF IMPERAILISM!!!1!

100
retired cynic  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:50:29pm

re: #98 sagehen

Wouldn’t it be funny if they just… don’t mention him. At all. Instead, they each lay out legislative proposals, budget priorities, a specific foreign policy vision with regards to the Middle East, Asia, Russia, Central America, administrative solutions to enumerated issues at the VA, EPA, FDA…

A girl can dream, right?

Will NOT happen!

101
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:50:40pm

re: #98 sagehen

Wouldn’t it be funny if they just… don’t mention him. At all. Instead, they each lay out legislative proposals, budget priorities, a specific foreign policy vision with regards to the Middle East, Asia, Russia, Central America, administrative solutions to enumerated issues at the VA, EPA, FDA…

A girl can dream, right?

To dream the impossible dream

102
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:50:48pm

Newsmax declares:

Trump Tweets Out Seductive Photos of Megyn Kelly

It’s clickbait for this tweet from early in the morning:

However, as in all of the hate-right web, the whistle once blown works… note the comments that are left to stand (and the comments are supposedly moderated):

downw/thebrownclown blackspeak • 4 hours ago
Much more so than that p o s halfrican you voted for twice, or that p o s witch you’re about to vote for.
9 •Share >

103
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:51:15pm

re: #91 Nyet

104
gwangung  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:51:32pm

re: #41 Big Beautiful Door

I’m confident that Hillary and her team won’t take it for granted, and will work like hell to get our voters out. She will, I’m sure, select a VP with strong appeal to African-American or Hispanic voters, because we are now long past the day when an all-white ticket is acceptable.

Yes, let’s not underestimate the Latino vote. That turned California into a near permanent state of blue, and there are many reports of increased voter registration among Latinos because of Trump.

Hilary 2008 may or may not have been able to mobilize this new bloc…Hilary 2016 most certainly will.

105
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:51:32pm

re: #98 sagehen

Wouldn’t it be funny if they just… don’t mention him. At all. Instead, they each lay out legislative proposals, budget priorities, a specific foreign policy vision with regards to the Middle East, Asia, Russia, Central America, administrative solutions to enumerated issues at the VA, EPA, FDA…

A girl can dream, right?

Well, Fox News might not rather mention him, and that could make a difference, in terms of how the questions are asked.

106
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:51:59pm

All those Feds have me thinking “cleanup” and “evidence gathering”. The whole place will need to be secured, documented, and cleaned.

The doucheweasel holdouts appear to be a minor item.

107
BlueSpotinAL  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:54:17pm

re: #35 Kryptik

It’s not 2008/2012, and none of the candidates we’ll have, for better or worse, are Obama this time around. Taking this for granted is dangerous sledding, and Trump’s rhetoric alone, win or lose, is dangerous enough if there’s not good pushback.

Hillary should use a lot of psychologists to help find Trumps buttons, and how to push them.

108
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:54:33pm
109
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:54:49pm

re: #58 thecommodore

What I hope is that either Hillary or Bernie Sanders doesn’t take Trump’s bait in the way Jeb Bush has. Stay above the fray. Keep to the issues. But if Trump keeps forcing the issue, daring either one of them to go into the muck, they should do it with the intention of knocking him out. Obama followed this strategy masterfully in 2008 and it left McCain and Palin twisting in the wind.

I still think Hillary made the comment about Trump being a “sexist” and then not taking it further on purpose. It was meant to stir him up when everyone knows he has many of his own relationship skeletons in the closet.

I think that is how you handle him. Get him steamed and stand back and let the evil in him come out. Sure his idiot backers would love it, but the real people would find it sickening if he carries it to far. And he just loves to carry things too far.

I think it was on MSNBC early this morning, as I wasn’t fully awake yet, that I heard a clip of them interviewing some Iowa voters and an elderly gentlemen said he would never vote for a petulant bully that storms off when he can’t get his way…and Trump dropping out of the debate was a fine display of just that.

I was thinking…you tell ‘em! He actually went against the view that the media likes to give us of elderly Iowans. I bet there are more out there thinking the same. I hope so.

110
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:57:41pm

Only 2 hours to the undercard.

111
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:57:46pm

re: #93 No Depression

Doesn’t he realize that the Enlightenment is the reason he can live in a country where he’s free to change his religion without having to worry about some yokel screaming HERETIC!!!111!!!!1 at him and burning him at the stake?

I don’t think he has that level of self awareness.

Right now, Rod is touting some book from Harvard historian Brad Gregory claiming that the very nature of academically studying history is dangerous and harmful because time is sacramental and holistic…meaning since God is one and time is also one with God therefore history can only be viewed as a whole with God instead of in linear increments.

Oh, and science is also bad, because it instrumentalizes creation. And Protestantism is bad because it leads to something called Moral Therapeutic Deism (IE not super duper Sacramental communitarian Christianity)

112
Stanley Sea  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:58:46pm

re: #94 Aunty Entity Dragon

[Embedded content]

Not really a fan of some of the other stuff from Rubiconski, but ths was funny.

My friend had Voodoo donuts instead of cake at her wedding in Portland. They were yum, and we all grabbed leftovers for the next day.

113
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:58:48pm

Like Cortez in Mexico, Trump could not come along and run roughshod over the political system if it were not inherently sick, weak and corrupt from the inside…

114
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:58:56pm

re: #110 freetoken

Only 2 hours to the undercard.

Huck and Frothy Mix’s last stand.

115
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:59:10pm

re: #108 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Uh oh.

116
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 1:59:32pm

re: #113 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Like Cortez in Mexico, Trump could not come along and run roughshod over the political system GOP if it were not inherently sick, weak and corrupt from the inside…

Fixed that for you.

117
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:00:19pm

re: #75 thecommodore

I’m not sure about that. Bernie has mostly resisted attacking Clinton, and it’s helped him so far. But Trump would certainly go after him in the way he’s attacked Bush, portraying him as weak for the way he surrendered the mic to Black Lives Matter protesters at one of his rallies last Year (he keeps harping on that). Such an attack might be bad optically, even for Trump (big guy attacking a smaller, older man), but Bernie would need to respond swiftly and effectively.

Bernie got into some pretty heated attacks last night when he said to the audience that he was there in front of them while Hillary was out of Iowa and talking with big money people raising cash. He has been turning up the heat more and more.

118
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:00:59pm

trump may very well get elected president, and then we will see if he can threaten reality and physics and bully it into doing what he wants

119
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:01:58pm

re: #71 Big Beautiful Door

Keep in mind, however, that Rubio which much prefer that Trump win Iowa than Cruz; he wants the race to be between him and Trump, not between Trump and Cruz.

Sure, but Iowa has shown itself to be a less than useful bellwether over the last few cycles - for both parties. If that were the case for Rubio, he should be focusing on New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada.

That said, from a media narrative point of view, it benefits the entire field for the winner of Iowa to be “anyone but Trump.” If Trump loses, that’s the first nick in the armor. It renders his inevitability/invincibility arguments null because actual voters in an actual nominating contest have rejected him. One of the key things to remember about the GOP primary electorate - as Tweety has said a few times - they tend to fall in line. The polls I’ve looked at lately suggest that close to half the primary electorate would be willing to change who they support, which means Trump’s support is likely not as solid as he might think.

120
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:02:31pm

re: #116 Big Beautiful Door

Fixed that for you.

I don’t want to MBF, but the Democratic Party is also not a picture of health, either. Although it is far from being the threat to public health and safety that the GOP has become.

121
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:02:37pm

re: #118 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

trump may very well get elected president, and then we will see if he can threaten reality and physics and bully it into doing what he wants

I won’t believe my country has degenerated to the point that Trump could win the election until I see it happen. This is still the country that gave Barack Obama two victories by solid majorities.

122
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:03:30pm

re: #113 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Like Cortez in Mexico, Trump could not come along and run roughshod over the political system if it were not inherently sick, weak and corrupt from the inside…

..and afflected with diarrhea.

The people of Tlaxcala had some legitimate grievances with the Mexica, though. They did not think that Tenochtitlan’s ruling class was secretly Muslim.

123
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:04:06pm

In noting that the donations Trump are raising tonight go to the Donald J Trump foundation, WaPo points out that the biggest contributor to Trump’s foundation is, by far, WWE:

washingtonpost.com

124
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:04:37pm

re: #120 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I don’t want to MBF, but the Democratic Party is also not a picture of health, either. Although it is far from being the threat to public health and safety that the GOP has become.

True enough, but Trump hasn’t run roughshod over the Democrats, but rather the weak and degenerate GOP. See the Slate article I linked above describing the GOP as a failed state.

125
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:04:45pm

re: #121 Big Beautiful Door

I won’t believe my country has degenerated to the point that Trump could win the election until I see it happen. This is still the country that gave Barack Obama two victories by solid majorities.

The only thing that could propel Trump to victory would be some massive man-made and/or natural catastrophe (akin to a terrorist biochemical attack following an earthquake or similar) that drove people to panicked acts of hapless desperation.

126
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:05:00pm

Bernie’s campaign has done some really stupid things the last few days. Using logos from an group that endorsed Hillary in mailers and now today, this:

127
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:05:23pm

Prospect of 50-100 stores opening next year.
Obviously attempting to secure that HUGE hole left in the market by Radio Shack’s demise

128
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:06:23pm

re: #119 KGxvi

Sure, but Iowa has shown itself to be a less than useful bellwether over the last few cycles - for both parties. If that were the case for Rubio, he should be focusing on New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada.

That said, from a media narrative point of view, it benefits the entire field for the winner of Iowa to be “anyone but Trump.” If Trump loses, that’s the first nick in the armor. It renders his inevitability/invincibility arguments null because actual voters in an actual nominating contest have rejected him. One of the key things to remember about the GOP primary electorate - as Tweety has said a few times - they tend to fall in line. The polls I’ve looked at lately suggest that close to half the primary electorate would be willing to change who they support, which means Trump’s support is likely not as solid as he might think.

But Rubio wants that support to go to him and not Cruz. If Cruz wins Iowa and NH, he’ll be the nominee.

129
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:08:23pm

re: #123 freetoken

In noting that the donations Trump are raising tonight go to the Donald J Trump foundation, WaPo points out that the biggest contributor to Trump’s foundation is, by far, WWE:

washingtonpost.com

2007 was when Trump had his first run with the WWE, appearing at Wrestlemania 23 in a feud with Vince McMahon. Same goes for 2009, when he appeared regularly on WWE TV having kayfabe purchased Monday Night Raw. Most likely his payment was sent to his foundation rather than to him personally.

130
Timothy Watson  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:08:59pm

re: #127 FormerDirtDart

Prospect of 50-100 stores opening next year.
Obviously attempting to secure that HUGE hole left in the market by Radio Shack’s demise

[Embedded content]

Why? To sell stuff at slightly less than the absurd prices at Best Buy?

131
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:09:01pm

re: #125 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The only thing that could propel Trump to victory would be some massive man-made and/or natural catastrophe (akin to a terrorist biochemical attack following an earthquake or similar) that drove people to panicked acts of hapless desperation.

As I have said, he has the same chance of winning that High Chancellor Sutler of Norsefire did, not that I’m saying that Trump would launch his own terrorist attack, only that he needs some massive crisis to panic the electorate.

132
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:09:46pm

re: #37 Jenner7

Not hard to run a campaign when you can say what you want, do what you want, and get free air time.

GOP is complicit. Media is complicit. And we will be if we continue to take this man seriously.

Am I too optimistic to think the media will turn on Trump if he gets the nod? They love a horse race, but I think they’d also love a takedown.

You’d think they’d get the impact to media should trump actually win.

Wouldn’t they?

133
Nyet  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:11:10pm

re: #126 Jenner7

Some Berniacs’ enthusiasm gets the better of them.

134
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:11:21pm

So, tonight we will finally discover that what is called a “Jim Gilmore” isn’t a mythical beast, as in unicorns?

135
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:11:25pm

re: #132 WhatEVs

Am I too optimistic to think the media will turn on Trump if he gets the nod? They love a horse race, but I think they’d also love a takedown.

You’d think they’d get the impact to media should trump actually win.

Wouldn’t they?

Yes, big ratings, big profits. Nothing would be better for business than a Trump victory.

136
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:11:33pm

re: #132 WhatEVs

I honestly don’t know what’s going on anymore or what will happen. I’m lost. lol

137
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:11:54pm

Getting flack from the readers of deranged wingnut The Mad Jewess…

138
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:12:06pm

re: #134 freetoken

So, tonight we will finally discover that what is called a “Jim Gilmore” isn’t a mythical beast, as in unicorns?

They are letting him into the kiddie table debate?

139
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:12:10pm

re: #121 Big Beautiful Door

re: #125 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

i think it’s a big mistake to be confident that trump couldn’t be elected president

at this point i give him at least a 50/50 chance of getting elected

140
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:12:13pm

re: #135 Big Beautiful Door

Yes, big ratings, big profits. Nothing would be better for business than a Trump victory.

And then the Trump impeachment, which will be good for lots of eyes on the news channels.

141
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:12:37pm

re: #133 Nyet

Some Berniacs’ enthusiasm gets the better of them.

“Insufferable” is the word that comes to mind.

142
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:13:16pm

re: #139 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i think it’s a big mistake to be confident that trump couldn’t be elected president

at this point i give him at least a 50/50 chance of getting elected

Big overestimation of his chances. He’s the most disliked candidate in the race when you poll the general electorate.

143
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:13:57pm

re: #132 WhatEVs

Am I too optimistic to think the media will turn on Trump if he gets the nod? They love a horse race, but I think they’d also love a takedown.

You’d think they’d get the impact to media should trump actually win.

Wouldn’t they?

any attack by “the media” plays right into trump’s hands

bernie’s best attack might be to praise trump for his record of supporting liberal policies

144
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:14:18pm

re: #143 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

any attack by “the media” plays right into trump’s hands

bernie’s best attack might be to praise trump for his record of supporting liberal policies

Bingo!

145
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:14:49pm

re: #129 KGxvi

2007 was when Trump had his first run with the WWE, appearing at Wrestlemania 23 in a feud with Vince McMahon. Same goes for 2009, when he appeared regularly on WWE TV having kayfabe purchased Monday Night Raw. Most likely his payment was sent to his foundation rather than to him personally.

Yup, that’s what happened. In return, Trump was put in the WWE “Hall of Fame.”

Still, for all the right wing media attacking Trump for his charity, the reality is he’s given much more than the other GOP candidates have ever given. It’s just one more demonstratin of how Trump, intentionally or unintentionally, is exposing the “conservative” establishment as hypocrits.

146
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:15:16pm
147
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:15:19pm

re: #142 Big Beautiful Door

Big overestimation of his chances. He’s the most disliked candidate in the race when you poll the general electorate.

Any GOP candidate will have a base 48% of the electorate. Now Trump is breaking every established prediction model so that may be out the window…but I would not be sanguine about him being an immediate loser.

148
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:15:45pm

re: #135 Big Beautiful Door

Yes, big ratings, big profits. Nothing would be better for business than a Trump victory.

If I was Trump, I’d shut down most of the media. Not only is the question who is going to stop him, but more importantly, will his followers accept anything less?

149
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:16:38pm

re: #57 Eventual Carrion

4 last I knew.

But didn’t the not-really-Patriot Network send out the call for all bad “patriots” to rush to Burns, STAT! With their own food and ability to winter camp? And several were already there eating biskits n gravy?
If that’s the case, those SUV’s could be bringing a boatload of Feds.

Maybe not…just thinking out loud.

150
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:17:28pm

re: #147 Aunty Entity Dragon

Any GOP candidate will have a base 48% of the electorate. Now Trump is breaking every established prediction model so that may be out the window…but I would not be sanguine about him being an immediate loser.

I am, of course, assuming Hillary will run a competent campaign and work like hell to defeat him. And the GOP base is more like 47% (ironic, ain’t it?).

151
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:18:22pm

re: #148 Belafon

If I was Trump, I’d shut down most of the media. Not only is the question who is going to stop him, but more importantly, will his followers accept anything less?

Well, this is still the US; even as President, he won’t have Putin level power.

152
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:20:30pm

re: #142 Big Beautiful Door

Big overestimation of his chances. He’s the most disliked candidate in the race when you poll the general electorate.

polls in january are a slender thread to base a prediction on

im going on the enthusiasm of his followers who get an addictive trangressive thrill from hearing his corrosive rhetoric - he’s a new thing in american politics and his ear is pitch perfect

in an election that will probably have less than 60% turnout, a few million enthusiasts easily upset what the majority polls

don’t relax and poo poo the danger!

153
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:22:16pm

re: #79 Nature’sMasterpiece

I’m not sure exactly why you seem to think that but from what I have seen from the two campaigns is that Clinton has no problem going on the attack and the Sanders campaign has done a much better job of sticking to the issues. Why do you think it would be any different is she was up against Trump?

I think it’s easy to stick to a single issue.

154
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:22:34pm

re: #130 Timothy Watson

Why? To sell stuff at slightly less than the absurd prices at Best Buy?

You know, they just may see some niche in the market emerging. What was it, two or so weeks ago, that JC Penney announced they were going to start selling major appliances again…
Maybe there is room for the “Not Best Buy”

155
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:23:43pm
Maddow — who earlier this year hosted a Democratic forum in South Carolina attended by Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley — has been rabble rousing when she’s interviewed the candidates on her show. Maddow recently pressed Sanders, for example, on whether he would follow through on regular complaints that the Democratic National Committee scheduled too few debates and put them in terrible time slots, like the Sunday of a holiday weekend.

Although it’s Sanders who now looks like the one reluctant to join the extra debate, the Vermont senator had assured Maddow that he’d be up for one more meeting.

“Well, count me in as one person — you know, if Secretary Clinton and Gov. O’Malley want to do it, I’m there,” he said back on January 19. “I love debates. I think they are a way to inform the American people of our positions and our differences. So, I think that is a great idea. So, I’m in. If the other candidates are in, you count me in.”

Now Clinton and O’Malley have both said they’ll attend, but the Sanders campaign says it won’t because of a threat by the DNC to bar candidates from future debates if they attend this one.

I swear, Sanders’ campaign is preternaturally retarded. How fucking stupid do they have to be to think the DNC is going to disqualify Clinton and O’Malley and leave Sanders as the sole candidate in all future sanctioned debates? Alternatively Bernie’s campaign is just chickenshit, and while it likes to talk about wanting extra debates is actually terrified of the idea.

Anyway he agreed to this and now he’s trying to back out, it’s not a good look.

156
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:23:43pm

re: #81 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Sorry to keep harping about this, but this guy is something else.

You’re WAY too kind. Something else, indeed.

157
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:23:47pm

re: #142 Big Beautiful Door

Big overestimation of his chances. He’s the most disliked candidate in the race when you poll the general electorate.

50/50 seems about right, if only because his favorable/unfavorable numbers are very similar to Clinton’s. I honestly can’t remember a time when we had two nominees with negative favorables - that’s the sort of thing that can lead to weird outcomes.

158
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:24:12pm
159
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:24:58pm

re: #152 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

polls in january are a slender thread to base a prediction on

im going on the enthusiasm of his followers who get an addictive trangressive thrill from hearing his corrosive rhetoric - he’s a new thing in american politics and his ear is pitch perfect

in an election that will probably have less than 60% turnout, a few million enthusiasts easily upset what the majority polls

don’t relax and poo poo the danger!

Its Rubio or bust if the GOP wants to win.
fivethirtyeight.com

160
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:26:07pm

re: #149 WhatEVs

But didn’t the not-really-Patriot Network send out the call for all bad “patriots” to rush to Burns, STAT! With their own food and ability to winter camp? And several were already there eating biskits n gravy?
If that’s the case, those SUV’s could be bringing a boatload of Feds.

Maybe not…just thinking out loud.

Actually, not too outrageous an idea.
These militia guys coming to Burns know the roads are blocked, so they’re probably all like “where we’re going we don’t need roads” as they avoid the checkpoints and head offroad with their 4WD vehicles and tear up the sagelands in the process.

161
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:26:25pm

re: #159 Big Beautiful Door

Its Rubio or bust if the GOP wants to win.
fivethirtyeight.com

Kaisch might win n a general…but the GOP base isn’t in the mood for another dubya clone.

162
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:26:35pm

Trump scraping the bottom of the barrel again.

163
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:26:54pm

re: #84 Backwoods_Sleuth

Different Anderson.
Dylan Anderson is Capt Moroni.
Sean Anderson is the chunky guy who is one of the four holdouts sitting around the campfire when he’s not screaming into the camera about killing LEOs and bloodbaths.

You gotta give him props. I haven’t seen spittle like that in a while. He really lost it last night on their YouTube channel.

And, I being the awful person I am, laughed my butt off. The more he enraged, the harder I laughed.

164
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:27:15pm

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

I’ve been wondering why Sanders hasn’t been wanting to do this since the other two agreed to. Wasn’t the complaint that there weren’t enough debates.

165
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:27:39pm
166
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:28:21pm

re: #161 Aunty Entity Dragon

Kaisch might win n a general…but the GOP base isn’t in the mood for another dubya clone.

Kasich needs at least a solid second place in NH to stand a chance.

167
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:29:49pm

re: #166 Big Beautiful Door

The “base” are in no mood for governance.

They want revenge.

168
TedStriker  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:30:13pm

re: #165 Backwoods_Sleuth

169
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:30:19pm

re: #159 Big Beautiful Door

Its Rubio or bust if the GOP wants to win.
fivethirtyeight.com

no poll even showed ronald reagan ahead in 1980 until july of that year, and no poll came close to predicting his 10% lead in the final results

general election polls in january do very little to predict what will happen in november

170
SpaceJesus  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:30:44pm

Is the man with the dead marmot on his head in full control of the circus at this point?

171
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:31:10pm

re: #139 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

i think it’s a big mistake to be confident that trump couldn’t be elected president

at this point i give him at least a 50/50 chance of getting elected

I hope you are really really wrong so that I can come back and tease you about it big time!

But I am not going to be over confident.

One last comment before taking a break…

I heard a pollster guy explaining Bernie’s good polling numbers. He claims it was all based on an increased Iowa voter turnout. That increase is over the last few Iowa voting patterns and it seemed to be a rather large increase. He went on to claim that he felt that was way optimistic and too large. If there is not a huge increase in turnout Bernie will get beat pretty strongly in Iowa.

And I just saw the newest NBC poll for Iowa…

LIKELY DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS-GOERS January 28, 2016
Hillary Clinton 48
Bernie Sanders 45
Martin O’Malley 3
Other 0
Undecided 4
Total 100

Linky to PDF doc:Wall Street/NBC Marist Poll - 1/28: Trump Leads in IA, NH, and SC… Clinton and Sanders …

172
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:32:10pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

But some will counter that American politics has changed much since 1980, especially given the rise of modern telecommunications.

Back in 1980 the country was still recovering from Watergate. The Iran Hostage situation was on-going. Parties were still controlled by long-time apparatchiks.

Today is a new world.

173
Stanley Sea  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:32:50pm

re: #162 jaunte

Trump scraping the bottom of the barrel again.

[Embedded content]

I can’t re-tweet that. :(

174
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:32:58pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

no poll even showed ronald reagan ahead in 1980 until july of that year, and no poll came close to predicting his 10% lead in the final results

general election polls in january do very little to predict what will happen in november

The white vote in 1980 represented a tad higher percentage of the electorate than it does now.

175
Lidane  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:34:09pm

My surprise, etc. —

176
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:34:12pm

re: #172 freetoken

But some will counter that American politics has changed much since 1980, especially given the rise of modern telecommunications.

Back in 1980 the country was still recovering from Watergate. The Iran Hostage situation was on-going. Parties were still controlled by long-time apparatchiks.

Today is a new world.

not always in a good way

177
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:34:50pm
178
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:34:58pm

re: #164 Belafon

I’ve been wondering why Sanders hasn’t been wanting to do this since the other two agreed to. Wasn’t the complaint that there weren’t enough debates.

Sanders is a crank. A crank with some good ideas but a crank nonetheless. His campaign is desperate to win the first two primary states hoping the national tide will turn after that. They see a chance of that happening now and don’t want to jinx things.

179
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:37:08pm

re: #118 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

trump may very well get elected president, and then we will see if he can threaten reality and physics and bully it into doing what he wants

The dog who caught the car.

180
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:37:20pm

Lunatic on Line 1:

181
Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:37:51pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

Sanders is a crank. A crank with some good ideas but a crank nonetheless. His campaign is desperate to win the first two primary states hoping the national tide will turn after that. They see a chance of that happening now and don’t want to jinx things.

Ayep, which totally runs counter to the whole “he’s the outsider, he’s the guy the establishment doesn’t like, and only he can bring you to the promised land” business that his supporters are constantly spinning. If his biggest fear is that the DNC will bar him from future debates, then obviously he’s not the “outsider” he’s trying to sell himself as.

182
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:38:18pm

re: #150 Big Beautiful Door

I am, of course, assuming Hillary will run a competent campaign and work like hell to defeat him. And the GOP base is more like 47% (ironic, ain’t it?).

The unknown is that a lot of GOPers are turned off by Trump. Call them establishment. I don’t think many of them will vote for Trump. I - and I say this realistically - can see them voting for Hillary or sitting it out.

183
Stanley Sea  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:38:30pm
184
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:39:48pm

re: #176 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

not always in a good way

If I remember the numbers correctly, the Republican has to win over 60% of the white vote to win the election. And I think the number is actually closer to 70%.

185
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:40:19pm

re: #182 WhatEVs

The unknown is that a lot of GOPers are turned off by Trump. Call them establishment. I don’t think many of them will vote for Trump. I - and I say this realistically - can see them voting for Hillary or sitting it out.

I agree, and Trump should inspire a big Hispanic turnout. Also if Trump is counting on winning Midwest states to get to 270, the Muslim vote could be a big factor in Michigan.

186
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:40:23pm

Here we go again.

Anaheim, home of The Mouse and visited by millions of tourists.

Kids and high tech toys…Police act childlike in their enthusiasm

Thousands of cell phones cracked for law enforcement perusal and fishing for who knows what.

California passed a law requiring warrants for police use of dirtboxes, Stingrays, and other electronic surveillance tools—but it only went into effect January 1, 2016. It’s not clear if Anaheim ever sought warrants previously. Considering it labeled the dirtboxes a “Covert Purchase,” and the level of secrecy shown in emails about the devices, it is clear that the police told as few people as possible.

But did they stop or continue?

187
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:42:00pm

re: #167 freetoken

The “base” are in no mood for governance.

They want revenge.

And hostages. Hostages they’re willing to kill.

188
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:42:02pm

re: #152 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

polls in january are a slender thread to base a prediction on

im going on the enthusiasm of his followers who get an addictive trangressive thrill from hearing his corrosive rhetoric - he’s a new thing in american politics and his ear is pitch perfect

in an election that will probably have less than 60% turnout, a few million enthusiasts easily upset what the majority polls

don’t relax and poo poo the danger!

PooPoo The Danger - great band name.

189
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:42:07pm

re: #181 Targetpractice

Ayep, which totally runs counter to the whole “he’s the outsider, he’s the guy the establishment doesn’t like, and only he can bring you to the promised land” business that his supporters are constantly spinning. If his biggest fear is that the DNC will bar him from future debates, then obviously he’s not the “outsider” he’s trying to sell himself as.

Honestly I just can’t call anyone who’s been in office for the past four Presidents an outsider. Maybe he’s not part of the establishment but an outsider, nah. Honestly my biggest disappointment with Bernie is I’ve seen little from him that inspires my confidence in how he’d do with a hostile Congress. He says that people will be fed up and just protest the GOP Congress’s inaction and that will pressure them. That’s a lot of wishful thinking IMO. So yeah while Bernie’s much closer to where I stand ideologically than Clinton is, I think Clinton is a much better leader. Sanders’ supporters think leadership is merely being right on an issue and he does deserve credit but I just don’t see how that makes him presidential material.

190
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:42:32pm

re: #179 Blind Frog Belly White

The dog who caught the car.

If Trump becomes President the homicide rate is going to soar. His supporters will take it as open season on brown people, brown people and their allies will defend themselves. He will direct the Feds to ethnically cleans the country by rounding up undocumented residents and “anchor baby” citizens. People will literally have to go into hiding. The Courts will have to intervene, he’ll fight them in the most grotesque terms.

If we’re lucky it would end up with him being impeached, but not before an appalling amount of bloodshed. It might physically rip the country apart.

191
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:43:13pm
192
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:43:17pm

re: #188 Blind Frog Belly White

PooPoo The Danger - great band name.

Only if Deadpool is the lead singer.

193
Stanley Sea  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:43:25pm

re: #183 Trump: Free hair gel from me. Come to the beach!

Don’t bother with the rest of the article, Carlson tries to justify Trump. gah.

194
Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:43:31pm

It really is hilarious that, after months of whining that the DNC was deliberately restricting the number of debates with the intent of pushing them out of the race, the Sanders campaign is now the one screaming it can’t be seen at an unauthorized debate because it would make DWS mad.

195
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:43:51pm

re: #185 Big Beautiful Door

I agree, and Trump should inspire a big Hispanic turnout. Also if Trump is counting on winning Midwest states to get to 270, the Muslim vote could be a big factor in Michigan.

I think Clinton may surprise some people in that she’ll do better among white working class voters than Obama, Kerry, and Gore did. I also think a lot of people don’t anticipate how a woman headlining a ticket will be. Just as an African-American doing that meant a lot to that community, a woman at the top of a ticket will do a lot. As for the Hispanic vote, it would be very wise to consider Castro. He’s not only qualified but I think he’d get out the vote in a good way too.

196
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:44:06pm
197
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:44:58pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

I hope that’s just not how it goes, but if those supporters come around my friends / co workers absent real police etc there will be a film at 11 moment.

198
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:45:08pm

re: #195 HappyWarrior

I think Clinton may surprise some people in that she’ll do better among white working class voters than Obama, Kerry, and Gore did. I also think a lot of people don’t anticipate how a woman headlining a ticket will be. Just as an African-American doing that meant a lot to that community, a woman at the top of a ticket will do a lot. As for the Hispanic vote, it would be very wise to consider Castro. He’s not only qualified but I think he’d get out the vote in a good way too.

I read that he is working on improving his Spanish, perhaps in anticipation of being on the ticket?

199
gwangung  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:45:31pm

\re: #195 HappyWarrior

I think Clinton may surprise some people in that she’ll do better among white working class voters than Obama, Kerry, and Gore did. I also think a lot of people don’t anticipate how a woman headlining a ticket will be. Just as an African-American doing that meant a lot to that community, a woman at the top of a ticket will do a lot. As for the Hispanic vote, it would be very wise to consider Castro. He’s not only qualified but I think he’d get out the vote in a good way too.

Castro as VP and Trump as the Repub is going to stimulate Hispanic voting. I think that’s going to be a sure thing.

200
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:45:43pm

re: #194 Targetpractice

It really is hilarious that, after months of whining that the DNC was deliberately restricting the number of debates with the intent of pushing them out of the race, the Sanders campaign is now the one screaming it can’t be seen at an unauthorized debate because it would make DWS mad.

And always remember he was not a Democrat until he needed them for this run. In my opinion that is more than a little bit self-serving.

201
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:46:35pm

re: #198 Big Beautiful Door

I read that he is working on improving his Spanish, perhaps in anticipation of being on the ticket?

Wouldn’t shock me. I am trying to think of other good VP candidates. Honestly, it’s home state bias but I like Tim Kaine a lot too.

202
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:46:57pm

re: #199 gwangung

\

Castro as VP and Trump as the Repub is going to stimulate Hispanic voting. I think that’s going to be a sure thing.

Yep.

203
Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:47:13pm

re: #200 ObserverArt

And always remember he was not a Democrat until he needed them for this run. In my opinion that is more than a little bit self-serving.

It’s like I’ve said before, he’s the DNC’s Ron Paul, he’s only a Democrat when it’s convenient, an “independent” or what have you when it’s not.

204
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:47:32pm

re: #185 Big Beautiful Door

I agree, and Trump should inspire a big Hispanic turnout. Also if Trump is counting on winning Midwest states to get to 270, the Muslim vote could be a big factor in Michigan.

Agree completely, but I was talking about Republicans. The “base” is 30% (generously, closer to 27%). That leaves 70% of REPUBLICANS. And a lot of those Republicans don’t like him.

205
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:47:37pm
206
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:47:49pm
207
Joe Bacon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:48:19pm

re: #9 Jenner7

OT early, apologies.

[Embedded content]

Impeach that SOB! If the GOP legislature won’t impeach him, can Michiganders recall him?

208
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:48:19pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

Wouldn’t shock me. I am trying to think of other good VP candidates. Honestly, it’s home state bias but I like Tim Kaine a lot too.

Corey Booker might be a good pick.

209
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:48:20pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Honestly I just can’t call anyone who’s been in office for the past four Presidents an outsider. Maybe he’s not part of the establishment but an outsider, nah. Honestly my biggest disappointment with Bernie is I’ve seen little from him that inspires my confidence in how he’d do with a hostile Congress. He says that people will be fed up and just protest the GOP Congress’s inaction and that will pressure them. That’s a lot of wishful thinking IMO. So yeah while Bernie’s much closer to where I stand ideologically than Clinton is, I think Clinton is a much better leader. Sanders’ supporters think leadership is merely being right on an issue and he does deserve credit but I just don’t see how that makes him presidential material.

Lil whiff of paranoia slipped out too, that was unsettling. The Microsoft thing.

210
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:48:34pm

re: #200 ObserverArt

And always remember he was not a Democrat until he needed them for this run. In my opinion that is more than a little bit self-serving.

That’s true too. I had actually forgotten that he’s still technically an Independent which is yet another reason why his supporters bellyaching at the DNC’s treatment I don’t think have a legit leg. I mean I do like the guy honestly but he hasn’t sold me he’s presidential material quite. As I said, merely being right on an issue isn’t enough IMO.

211
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:50:10pm

re: #208 Big Beautiful Door

Corey Booker might be a good pick.

Yeah I like Corey as well. What I like about all three these guys is they got some executive experience as well as legislative experience. All three have also been mayors of major cities with diverse populations as well. Kaine was governor of Richmond before he was Mark Warner’s running mate.

212
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:50:28pm

re: #204 WhatEVs

Agree completely, but I was talking about Republicans. The “base” is 30% (generously, closer to 27%). That leaves 70% of REPUBLICANS. And a lot of those Republicans don’t like him.

If you check the fivethirtyeight story I linked to, 65% of Republicans said they could see themselves supporting Trump.

213
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:51:07pm

re: #209 Great White Snark

Lil whiff of paranoia slipped out too, that was unsettling. The Microsoft thing.

Yeah I saw that too. The idealist in me loves Bernie and what he stands for on most issue but the pragmatist in me worries about him being able to accomplish anything. I hate ot say it but the Ron Paul analogy isn’t without merit.

214
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:51:26pm

re: #212 Big Beautiful Door

If you check the fivethirtyeight story I linked to, 65% of Republicans said they could see themselves supporting Trump.

Which is the low bar. When the primary is over, that number will jump.

215
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:52:31pm
216
gwangung  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:53:15pm

re: #214 Belafon

Which is the low bar. When the primary is over, that number will jump.

True. But I think they’d be more in play than with other candidates….probably not to vote for Clinton, but more to stay home.

217
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:54:02pm
218
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:54:30pm
219
Belafon  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:55:22pm

re: #216 gwangung

True. But I think they’d be more in play than with other candidates….probably not to vote for Clinton, but more to stay home.

Agree. We just know that there are a lot of Republicans that will justify supporting Trump. A similar pattern will happen once a Democrat is chosen. Our candidates are just less creepy and dangerous.

220
gocart mozart  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:56:59pm

I think this is real.

221
No Depression  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:57:03pm

re: #200 ObserverArt

And always remember he was not a Democrat until he needed them for this run. In my opinion that is more than a little bit self-serving.

I don’t know if I would be that cynical about that. He is an independent, but he caucused with Democrats in the Senate, showing that he’s at least in the same ideological ball park with the Democratic Party. I think it only made sense for him to change his party affiliation to the major left-of-center party in the country if his goal was to force the Democratic candidates to tack leftward, which I think was his initial motivation for running, as opposed to winning the nomination. I do think given his decent polling, that the calculus has changed for him, though.

222
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:57:18pm

re: #194 Targetpractice

It really is hilarious that, after months of whining that the DNC was deliberately restricting the number of debates with the intent of pushing them out of the race, the Sanders campaign is now the one screaming it can’t be seen at an unauthorized debate because it would make DWS mad.

I always liked Bernie, but as every day goes by, I like him less and less. I’m losing respect every single day.

223
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:57:24pm

re: #219 Belafon

Agree. We just know that there are a lot of Republicans that will justify supporting Trump. A similar pattern will happen once a Democrat is chosen. Our candidates are just less creepy and dangerous.

Yep remember the PUMAs. Ended up being a non factor. In the end most people will bow the party line. So I fully expect the establishment R’s to embrace Trump because they’ll rationalize that he’s not Clinton just as I expect many of Bernie’s diehards to do the same.

224
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:57:36pm

re: #210 HappyWarrior

As I said, merely being right on an issue isn’t enough IMO.

He hasn’t articulated a single plausible path towards enacting any of his proposals, especially in light of recent Congressional GOP intransigence. All he’s ever offered is raw assertion, which I personally find alarming.

His glib assurances that he’ll just be able to push his agenda through, combined with charges that Obama has been naive, and that Obama rolled over on the public option are all frankly various shades of insulting. Finally his policy monomania, insistence upon approaching every problem from foreign policy to institutionalized racism through the framework of economic populism is simplistic as fuck. He’s appealing, at best, to people so full of frustration that they react negatively to any and all calls for pragmatism. At worst he’s knowingly exploiting ignorance.

225
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:58:53pm

Warning: Long rant. Sorry, but I need to vent and you guys are the lucky winners. //

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78qxN4NbJuUzLSZITzfDGimNQM1WLq4fDv1rTwTFxbYckrGvzhy8fES8o/wDrkuFqVom3f/51e25q14kN85kwW/gHzmh59Pge8yP4lREtZCcgvif94SyJrq7ElbI0ZxwThU2OqPvbbHkR+bnN189gDG37rHBAZpMRkjbC4sDWr29E7YVyJefhAKBXxsdzi499v1u8Y8JtYU52uRGiPOGM+rLXjKtirSWYMnxdT2vQuhGHjTThDZCtOzvQWPMcCzr7ukIDlaDEBGT1ERFKnUS82epmRNTPE27ZVh/3btIHDP3EhK9s6uCjUnrclch1Vfh48gBfAsF3sH1ihm3HBoAQeGdCN9qcrpaEysHnzqemXfXl/VwGwLBFwaZqNs4qu3PMCQfjPpwSXxXi8eSI0Q4lOZVIGXQWcGagJOVZ0GVS9jnU3uHY8f6qukP5C0lK4Qpo4/1AJW+1vCiZgTVf2GfuSDbrwqXjbiEoTdlNRtZGQvUvHlclQ5xSormkser3s+al5ZkvKEtrXDZFGeQud0azbuJ9ZX0UUypz+0OXOMOFW6kxHutyp5W+cVNAwULggE6LB6rtqmbFEWb099UQOGoNSYkon7Cb6Mrd2gXziuVAiJxtTXXRbgk6d27JIFBIDM+g/htJDEUeZrEv4Ql9sQdEYgFbvnZXGs0VUEcoaQXsjtp17/kZPVS8ct21Gn33C5hlVVjOLKdsFvavBChX76R8mD2apiFR9vh39pdYCx9R6tgrG2jymAJABBQUpzkFwQpHJGG2c6jkUtF58uxoKX4FN3TFzzoKFfi6Btao3F76bV6oNWiGm6ITi1bqL/0aKP7Io8WfyL6d5LcDSFiPUPMfswHJbYfqmHQDU192wCHORbiOzZ0N/INY/0LFSQhV7Oz5UXZLcTV72m7vxQV7VhR0R31sXsS0Jv+bdYXHY1SFmi2eGkJSY11YA3K/jGJIm1pTiWbp5KQfqybr9zHJEvF/SOivC1KqIc9/4SXPX2pV9JPM/9TgWPYZ33pzOR6/R3unQ6q4mij4enXGWY96hKyCjSiQBJY4Sxqwjf3PaMdVcb+dby9I8IW0xBjqLlJb6agg8yuV6qyg5GajpgnIygD5DyL/iVegp+qNLCziov3M4lWb2kNnuYiWPI4jnlB7Q6oK0VhprcuCJbraUziOgViJOvx11iNh00UyG46XLpZOaMjOTACqYYBlF23FVbIXqNyz8pFFKlEgFSqZWFccN7YaJzOvshyVpBi6X01IXh21+l9Y8vtc9dAYJq9cZcJXInSB2Fphkwik9h4469/Npf3q3VDJHoswpuepFZK/HnXc/5zjfz5FUidUtjU2gtHEzTCcxhqYAI83kkMpKTulCWG0ZbSyVM+voNlpg0rxZv8KATfAmAEP6qBxAxDE2waGR1vqRGiLhLbXr0wKvd3zplErXyquothAo6STMc7DK03Eeil4MPIPwDsBWzVdE5K3F4LOUCKMLgde/ELkNSksOaD4MO6B/yPFlltp2Hmv17By4ChbDQuB6ttTZDZh9sKrRr2Qv8re8SOSOSB81MXlWK42yo8hdJ35i33GcAZ5CKk1vw52l4xIpEWI6aFCfefO0tMJQscua4phb1QHAiBnTeSI4s/qbhBriBlu0BKWmEiIW9NXJ71v7GflMSLcZ5MEgPOAQk8CoVI+sT6KtY0o87xrwkQhS4APJuY0e80kq6S6w0/4cXb3vA9QSCq21pduvTbtRr9QTnmERoTf3LM44ppuQIs9auy24gqVTJpyAgYzi1N5ld/uB47Hkw6Q3xvKUM8lvArB23H36f6udq79Whi6tmvexRu6f/s/wvRb3XsxOrMkM5PTQD25QbH/uRxtc+vlaPUiIdPI0+7q4riGhudjX1K/6rSM/mZevf8vhL2hIzOHt+/h0WlPPMn9uNM7Bbjb+Qx6LNidLJ1ccOVDDfxhhS0uD1r0u5bt1byVE86yf5TWGNLOOSyMy6i3W2kBBbKpmvXX1T/uT/LBapI7xib8SVhSvHDbgzKCLSaXSZPvuHi9Jd5ryIFG1MXwEYaT8sXDoTfaegVuLpg1A9ulSU0H8ouxY6ZsNyaZzitLnl1UmMD75obuK+g85dgPuT6wxr6gK/q317u8/V8myWIJrqrhBT6zapO7ENZ9uYqsRFSqbQSA8qk5FucxJ1J6j/ivlihsr7M526ftCoFyA==

226
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 2:59:54pm

re: #224 goddamnedfrank

He hasn’t articulated a single plausible path towards enacting any of his proposals, especially in light of recent Congressional GOP intransigence. All he’s ever offered is raw assertion, which I personally find alarming.

His glib assurances that he’ll just be able to push his agenda through, combined with charges that Obama has been naive, and that Obama rolled over on the public option are all frankly various shades of insulting. Finally his policy monomania, insistence upon approaching every problem from foreign policy to institutionalized racism through the framework of economic populism is simplistic as fuck. He’s appealing, at best, to people so full of frustration that they react negatively to any and all calls for pragmatism. At worst he’s knowingly exploiting ignorance.

These are great points too. I made the observation before the race started that many socialists are guilty of viewing society’s problems only through a socialistic lens. I agree though, I’ve been very disappointed with how he approaches racism and I really don’t like how his supporters think pointing out he was a Freedom Rider is enough, I find that very condescending and if the polls are correct, African-American voters agree.

227
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:01:19pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

P.S. It’s only “Private” because I didn’t want everyone to have to scroll past all of it. There’s no sensitive info in there.

228
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:01:46pm

Note that the story (“work”) of Hart vs. Michaels with McMahon (friend of Trump) as the shit-stirrer is considered the best of all time because it ended in a “shoot” (i.e., a real finish to a real conflict.)

So, if we carry over this pro-wrestling analogy to this GOP nomination process, what started as a work (Trump ego train) will end with a shoot (the real implosion of the GOP?)

229
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:02:47pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

{{{{{HUGE HUGS!!!}}}}

Be their worst fucking nightmare from this day forward!

230
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:04pm

My biggest problem with Sanders however is that he’s basically doing nothing for Democratic down-ticket races. How the fuck does he think he’s going to be able to govern without even trying to expand his coattails?

Talking to his supporters is seems to be all about exploiting people’s righteous anger to elect a President that will lead from the top down. Isn’t this the exact opposite of how a grass roots movement is supposed to enact its agenda?

Say what you will about the Tea Party and how badly its death eating supporters have fucked up so much of red state America, it managed to have so much influence by focusing on State and local races.

231
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:22pm

re: #229 Backwoods_Sleuth

{{{{{HUGE HUGS!!!}}}}

Be their worst fucking nightmare from this day forward!

You can count on it. And thanks for the hug. ;-)

232
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:28pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Someone from the sales department’s bright outsourcing idea.

233
gocart mozart  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:31pm
234
sagehen  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:52pm

re: #169 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

no poll even showed ronald reagan ahead in 1980 until july of that year, and no poll came close to predicting his 10% lead in the final results

general election polls in january do very little to predict what will happen in november

I’m sure it had nothing to do with a daily, one-hour network news program devoted entirely to the hostages in Iran, Ted Koppel anchoring a thorough report Every. Single. Day. about that day’s non-developments, and tearful interviews with the hostages’ families, while the little number in the corner of the screen ticked up.

235
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:04:52pm

re: #212 Big Beautiful Door

If you check the fivethirtyeight story I linked to, 65% of Republicans said they could see themselves supporting Trump.

That’s 35% who say no. Let’s say some change their mind and 89% go Trump. That’s 20% who don’t. Trump loses.

I don’t see the numbers playing out for him in a general.

236
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:05:37pm

re: #232 jaunte

Someone from the sales department’s bright outsourcing idea.

Yeah, not the best way to get people’s business, FFS.

237
KGxvi  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:06:16pm

re: #228 freetoken

I’m not sure Hart-Michaels should be considered heel vs heel. Michaels was way over as a babyface at that point - there was a weird thing where they’d do shows in Canada and the pop/heat would reverse, but otherwise, heel vs heel doesn’t really apply there.

238
Lidane  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:06:18pm

Because there’s never a wrong time to humiliate the Dallas Cowboys:

Heh.

239
jaunte  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:07:31pm

re: #236 CuriousLurker

Yeah, not the best way to get people’s business, FFS.

“Let’s send pushy amateurs out to bother people until they sign up, and incentivize them purely with commissions. They don’t work for us, so we’re not responsible. What could go wrong?”

240
weave  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:07:59pm

Rhetorical question…

Is everyone on Redstate an idiot?

redstate.com

So they feature a video from CNN of a CNN host hammering at a Trump spokesperson about not naming any vet organizations benefiting tonight, then in the same bloody story they say:

“It hardly needs to be mentioned anymore that this would be treated very differently in the press if it were anyone but Donald Trump.”

WTF is that supposed to imply? That the press is giving Trump a free pass? Because in their own video they featured from CNN that’s obviously not the case.

241
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:08:04pm

re: #238 Lidane

Because there’s never a wrong time to humiliate the Dallas Cowboys:

[Embedded content]

Heh.

Steelers should have beat them sigh. I can’t even hate the Cowboys anymore though. They’ve been just so mediocre the past twenty years. I do hate that America’s Team cra. The only reason why they have that label is because Art Rooney, Sr refused it for the Steelers- We’re Pittsburgh’s team- damn straight.

242
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:09:39pm

re: #230 goddamnedfrank

My biggest problem with Sanders however is that he’s basically doing nothing for Democratic down-ticket races. How the fuck does he think he’s going to be able to govern without even trying to expand his coattails?

Talking to his supporters is seems to be all about exploiting people’s righteous anger to elect a President that will lead from the top down. Isn’t this the exact opposite of how a grass roots movement is supposed to enact its agenda?

Say what you will about the Tea Party and how badly its death eating supporters have fucked up so much of red state America, it managed to have so much influence by focusing on State and local races.

That’s a great point too. That was another thing that disappointed me. He just seems clueless about how to put together a lasting coalition. I think being in a staunchly Democratic state and not having to have serious challenges has blinded him to these kind of realities frankly.

243
Targetpractice  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:11:23pm

re: #230 goddamnedfrank

My biggest problem with Sanders however is that he’s basically doing nothing for Democratic down-ticket races. How the fuck does he think he’s going to be able to govern without even trying to expand his coattails?

Talking to his supporters is seems to be all about exploiting people’s righteous anger to elect a President that will lead from the top down. Isn’t this the exact opposite of how a grass roots movement is supposed to enact its agenda?

Say what you will about the Tea Party and how badly its death eating supporters have fucked up so much of red state America, it managed to have so much influence by focusing on State and local races.

Again, they’re like Paulians who think that if Crazy Uncle Liberty had gotten elected, he’d have a “mandate” and could use that to strong arm Congress into obeying him. And if they didn’t? Well, the voters would know who was to blame for Bernie’s proposals not becoming law and would vote them out in the next election. They are totally removed from the realities of the current US political system.

244
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:11:46pm

re: #228 freetoken

From your fingers…!

245
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:12:31pm

Did you know the Bilderbergers are trying to stop Trump?

Well, they are.

You know how I know?

Top Bilderberger: “We Must Stop Donald Trump”

246
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:13:17pm

re: #245 freetoken

Did you know the Bilderbergers are trying to stop Trump?

Well, they are.

You know how I know?

[Embedded content]

I like my build a burger with pepper jack cheese and sriracha and guac, thanks.

247
SpaceJesus  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:15:13pm

Can jet fuel melt toupees?

248
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:16:18pm

My guess, it’s over

249
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:16:33pm

re: #245 freetoken

Did you know the Bilderbergers are trying to stop Trump?

Well, they are.

You know how I know?

[Embedded content]

I thought Trump would be a Bilderberger.

250
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:17:17pm

re: #239 jaunte

“Let’s send pushy amateurs out to bother people until they sign up, and incentivize them purely with commissions. They don’t work for us, so we’re not responsible. What could go wrong?”

Exactly.

There’s a $500 fine for violating the city ordinance, and each person has to have a permit issued by the city. They’ll be made aware of this if they every come back here.

251
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:17:43pm

re: #249 WhatEVs

I thought Trump would be a Bilderberger.

Apparently not. Trump’s an “Alex Jones guy”.

252
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:19:26pm

re: #126 Jenner7

Bernie’s campaign has done some really stupid things the last few days. Using logos from an group that endorsed Hillary in mailers and now today, this:

[Embedded content]

Oh, the Berniacs at Kos have all that sorted out. Re the Las Vegas thing:

Ah, it was probably kid volunteers.
No—it was staff.
Ah—well, they were only on the picket lines in solidarity.
No—they weren’t on picket lines—they were in employees only areas.
Ah—they were probably union members who liked Bernie.
No—they were impersonating union members.
Ah—well, the union doesn’t care.
No—the union has come out solidly against what happened.
Ah—well, who is Jon Ralston? Some low-life blogger?
No—he’s about the most well-respected political writer in Nevada.
Ah—well, Hillary did something worse.

On the logos:
Everyone does that.
Nope—they don’t.
Well, he was only saying that they rated him highly, not endorsed, no biggie.
Nope— AARP and the Conservation folks have said they’re upset.
Every blogger uses logos, no biggie.
This was a printed campaign piece from Bernie’s campaign, not a blogger.
Well—Hillary did something worse.

253
goddamnedfrank  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:20:32pm

I’m not going to predict the outcome of the Iowa caucus except to say I’ve actually caucused before and the demographics I witnessed tend NOT to include much of Bernie’s youthful support bracket.

254
Patricia Kayden  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:20:42pm

re: #195 HappyWarrior

I think Clinton may surprise some people in that she’ll do better among white working class voters than Obama, Kerry, and Gore did. I also think a lot of people don’t anticipate how a woman headlining a ticket will be. Just as an African-American doing that meant a lot to that community, a woman at the top of a ticket will do a lot. As for the Hispanic vote, it would be very wise to consider Castro. He’s not only qualified but I think he’d get out the vote in a good way too.

I really hope that Clinton picks Castro as her VP. That would be a strategic and brilliant move, not only because he’s Latino but also because he’s young.

255
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:21:27pm

re: #241 HappyWarrior

Steelers should have beat them sigh. I can’t even hate the Cowboys anymore though. They’ve been just so mediocre the past twenty years. I do hate that America’s Team cra. The only reason why they have that label is because Art Rooney, Sr refused it for the Steelers- We’re Pittsburgh’s team- damn straight.

As a fan of the Cowboys of 20 years ago, that was a pretty damn good team. And just to show I’m a good sport, the Steelers teams which beat the Cowboys in the 70’s were pretty damn good as well. Can’t stand Jerry Jones.

256
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:22:47pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Warning: Long rant. Sorry, but I need to vent and you guys are the lucky winners. //

[Embedded content]

Whoa.

And I thought that the pizza parlor that keeps leaving little rolled up flyers attached with rubber bands to my front stoop rail were the worst.

257
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:22:57pm

re: #248 FormerDirtDart

258
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:23:36pm
259
Shiplord Kirel  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:24:04pm
260
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:24:08pm

Meanwhile, the Bratfrats are all jumping in on Nolte’s attack on Fox News:

Beware Hypocritical Conservatives Defending the Sins of Fox News Over Trump

It’s like just now the “conservative” “base” are discovering that - the guy who: owns Fox News is also the guy who plasters boobs all over Page 3, brought America the show The Simpson’s, and whose minor partners includes Saudi royalty - is also the guy who runs the show called the “GOP Debate”.

261
Shiplord Kirel  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:25:12pm
262
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:25:21pm
263
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:25:31pm

re: #254 Patricia Kayden

I really hope that Clinton picks Castro as her VP. That would be a strategic and brilliant move, not only because he’s Latino but also because he’s young.

Yep. I was really impressed with what I saw at the DNC a few years ago. Felt the same way about Obama in 2004. I thought it ended up being for the best that he did not run for governor of Texas. Shame about Wendy Davis of course and that they have Abbott but I don’t see how he would have won.

264
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:25:46pm

This is OT and related to a kerfluffle that happened in the hockey world, but I know there’s at least one or two Lizards besides me who like hockey, so I’m going to link it. If you don’t like hockey but enjoy a human interest type story, it’s probably also worth a look.

I was a big fan of John Scott before, but after reading this I wish my team would trade for him and bring him back again.

265
freetoken  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:25:51pm
266
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:26:39pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

Yep. I was really impressed with what I saw at the DNC a few years ago. Felt the same way about Obama in 2004. I thought it ended up being for the best that he did not run for governor of Texas. Shame about Wendy Davis of course and that they have Abbott but I don’t see how he would have won.

Its going to take time to make a Hispanic majority in Texas into a voting majority.

267
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:27:02pm
268
Timothy Watson  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:27:55pm

re: #265 freetoken

[Embedded content]

Reminds me of one of the funniest Daily Show clips ever:
cc.com

269
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:28:20pm

re: #255 Big Beautiful Door

As a fan of the Cowboys of 20 years ago, that was a pretty damn good team. And just to show I’m a good sport, the Steelers teams which beat the Cowboys in the 70’s were pretty damn good as well. Can’t stand Jerry Jones.

Yeah they were. I by no means was knocking the talent but more bemoaning Neil O’Donnell’s picks but still Larry Brown had to catch them. It’s too bad what Jerry Jones has done with the team. People may not like the Cowboys but football is more interesting with them relevant. Staubach had a good line, he was kidding Montana about how Montana beat the Bengals twice but never had to face the Steelers. A lot of respect to especially those 70’s Cowboys teams- Roger, Tony Dorsett, Randy White, Bob Lilly, and the others. And of course Coach Landry.

270
Barefoot Grin  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:28:38pm

OT: I just teared up a little while ago listening to Robert Ebeling, one of the engineers who warned NASA not to launch the Challenger space shuttle, being interviewed on NPR. He did everything he could to warn that the O-rings wouldn’t work at the low temp on launch day. At 89, he still blames himself and wonders at his God: ‘why did you choose me, a loser, with this message?’

271
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:28:45pm

re: #266 Big Beautiful Door

Its going to take time to make a Hispanic majority in Texas into a voting majority.

Yep.

272
Barefoot Grin  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:29:23pm

re: #261 Shiplord Kirel

Embedded Image

That transforms into some pretty noxious methane.

273
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:29:42pm

re: #268 Timothy Watson

Reminds me of one of the funniest Daily Show clips ever:
cc.com

Team Evil or Team Stupid?

274
Patricia Kayden  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:29:45pm

re: #267 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I fought the law, and the law won.

275
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:30:06pm
276
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:30:51pm

re: #252 BeachDem

Oh, the Berniacs at Kos have all that sorted out. Re the Las Vegas thing:

Ah, it was probably kid volunteers.
No—it was staff.
Ah—well, they were only on the picket lines in solidarity.
No—they weren’t on picket lines—they were in employees only areas.
Ah—they were probably union members who liked Bernie.
No—they were impersonating union members.
Ah—well, the union doesn’t care.
No—the union has come out solidly against what happened.
Ah—well, who is Jon Ralston? Some low-life blogger?
No—he’s about the most well-respected political writer in Nevada.
Ah—well, Hillary did something worse.

On the logos:
Everyone does that.
Nope—they don’t.
Well, he was only saying that they rated him highly, not endorsed, no biggie.
Nope— AARP and the Conservation folks have said they’re upset.
Every blogger uses logos, no biggie.
This was a printed campaign piece from Bernie’s campaign, not a blogger.
Well—Hillary did something worse.

I think they just don’t realize how much their tone can get on people’s nerves. It’s not all Bernie supporters but I swear I think many of them are assholes for treating people in the Democratic Party who have made their career working on campaigns in the party as not being real Democrats because they prefer Clinton is really grating to me. Sorry, you’re not a better Democrat just because you’re more left wing. It’s not like that.

277
retired cynic  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:31:42pm

re: #270 Barefoot Grin

OT: I just teared up a little while ago listening to Robert Ebeling, one of the engineers who warned NASA not to launch the Challenger space shuttle, being interviewed on NPR. He did everything he could to warn that the O-rings wouldn’t work at the low temp on launch day. At 89, he still blames himself and wonders at his God: ‘why did you choose me, a loser, with this message?’

Me, too. Listening to him cry just tore me up. There was CT at the time that the Reagan Administration pushed for a launch for the SOTU speech against engineers saying it was too cold. Some of us still believe that.

278
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:31:47pm

re: #275 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

As someone employed in tiny town news for more than 30 years, I am loving the fact that, after three long and frustrating weeks, John and Amanda are there now for the end of the story.

279
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:31:52pm

re: #166 Big Beautiful Door

Kasich needs at least a solid second place in NH to stand a chance.

If Kasich starts to make a move, here’s hoping his actual record and personality get an airing. Thus far, he’s the “sane/moderate/nice” one, but that is so far from true, it’s not even funny.

Charles P. Pierce mentioned one of his foibles about charter schools and noted that, while blogs have been following his antics all along, they’re starting the be covered in the main Ohio newspapers.

plunderbund.com will be a great source for Democrats, should sleazy John get very far. (And maybe the Plain Dealer will be forced to re-issue the video of his ugly performance at their candidate chat during the governor’s race. They pulled it down because it made Johnny look bad, then sued any site that had archived it and kept it up. It went down the memory hole. I saw it when it was first up, and it really showed the true Kasich. Snide, snarly, sarcastic, wouldn’t answer questions.)

280
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:32:25pm

re: #270 Barefoot Grin

OT: I just teared up a little while ago listening to Robert Ebeling, one of the engineers who warned NASA not to launch the Challenger space shuttle, being interviewed on NPR. He did everything he could to warn that the O-rings wouldn’t work at the low temp on launch day. At 89, he still blames himself and wonders at his God: ‘why did you choose me, a loser, with this message?’

Poor guy. If only they had listened to him. This was the year before I was born but I was a lways a little into NASA’s history since my aunt worked there.

281
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:32:27pm

re: #252 BeachDem

Exactly the stuff I’m losing respect over.

282
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:32:38pm
283
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:34:49pm

re: #256 The Vicious Babushka

Whoa.

And I thought that the pizza parlor that keeps leaving little rolled up flyers attached with rubber bands to my front stoop rail were the worst.

The super went on a rant about the Chinese restaurants leaving their menus too. The come in and slip it under people’s doors—meaning they end up in the hallway and she has to clean them up. This is after she’s asked them numerous times to just leave a stack of menus on the little table in the lobby, then anyone who’s interested can pick one up.

284
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:36:06pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

Yep.

That would cause more exploding heads than the climax of Mars Attacks!

285
FormerDirtDart  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:36:55pm
286
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:37:14pm

This revolution isn’t ending in even a whimper.
Just a chorus of laughs and snark.

287
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:38:12pm

re: #284 Blind Frog Belly White

That would cause more exploding heads than the climax of Mars Attacks!

Virginia becoming a purplish blue state has done too. But if Texas became an in play state, man that would just be nuts. I don’t think it happens for another few elections but it will happen and I think really put the GOP in a bad spot. The GOP’s years of treating Hispanics like pond scum will catch up with them and that’s why they resist immigration reform. The more honest ones admit it. They just phrase it with bullshit about how the Democratic Party is “buying” Latino votes.

288
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:39:00pm

re: #279 BeachDem

If Kasich starts to make a move, here’s hoping his actual record and personality get an airing. Thus far, he’s the “sane/moderate/nice” one, but that is so far from true, it’s not even funny.

Charles P. Pierce mentioned one of his foibles about charter schools and noted that, while blogs have been following his antics all along, they’re starting the be covered in the main Ohio newspapers.

plunderbund.com will be a great source for Democrats, should sleazy John get very far. (And maybe the Plain Dealer will be forced to re-issue the video of his ugly performance at their candidate chat during the governor’s race. They pulled it down because it made Johnny look bad, then sued any site that had archived it and kept it up. It went down the memory hole. I saw it when it was first up, and it really showed the true Kasich. Snide, snarly, sarcastic, wouldn’t answer questions.)

Just what Republicans like; he should show that side more if he wants to win!

289
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:40:02pm

re: #198 Big Beautiful Door

I read that he is working on improving his Spanish, perhaps in anticipation of being on the ticket?

From his Colbert interview: (at 5:18)

Julian Castro Can Neither Confirm Nor Deny He’s In VP Training

290
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:40:14pm

re: #180 goddamnedfrank

Ah yes, the Libertarian Magic Balance Fairy.

Like… Did you ever think that the government is just like, a gang with badges, man?
Duuuude

291
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:40:44pm
292
HappyWarrior  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:41:33pm

re: #289 BeachDem

From his Colbert interview: (at 5:18)

[Embedded content]

That’s smart. Him being so much as speculated really pissed of some of the ultra lefties I know. I have no idea what they have against him. Sorry guys but Sanders-Warren isn’t happening nor should it honestly even if it were electorally feasible.

293
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:42:02pm

re: #205 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I’m skipping the debate. Just can’t take it.

Did TRUMP find a network to carry his snit fit?

294
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:42:03pm

re: #227 CuriousLurker

P.S. It’s only “Private” because I didn’t want everyone to have to scroll past all of it. There’s no sensitive info in there.

Take their pictures next time. Grab your DSLR or cell on video. The possibility of public humiliation in intimidating as is the DSLR.

295
TedStriker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:42:16pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Warning: Long rant. Sorry, but I need to vent and you guys are the lucky winners. //

[Embedded content]

re: #232 jaunte

Someone from the sales department’s bright outsourcing idea.

re: #236 CuriousLurker

Yeah, not the best way to get people’s business, FFS.

re: #239 jaunte

“Let’s send pushy amateurs out to bother people until they sign up, and incentivize them purely with commissions. They don’t work for us, so we’re not responsible. What could go wrong?”

Oh, believe me, I feel your pain, C_L…being in the alarm business, we have to deal with the fallout from so-called “summer companies” (mostly unscrupulous and ethically challenged competitors who go out in groups, mostly during the spring and summer, to areas they don’t normally serve, in order to drum up new business). These “summer companies” tend to lie their asses off and misrepresent themselves as a matter of course, scaring and worrying some of our customers, most of whom call us to make sure that the flim-flamsters aren’t with us or just to let us know about them.

296
Jenner7  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:42:45pm

re: #293 BeachDem

Cspan is covering it. He oversold his event….again.

297
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:43:53pm

re: #287 HappyWarrior

Virginia becoming a purplish blue state has done too. But if Texas became an in play state, man that would just be nuts. I don’t think it happens for another few elections but it will happen and I think really put the GOP in a bad spot. The GOP’s years of treating Hispanics like pond scum will catch up with them and that’s why they resist immigration reform. The more honest ones admit it. They just phrase it with bullshit about how the Democratic Party is “buying” Latino votes.

The thing about Texas is that they produced liberal Democratic Senators like LBJ and Lloyd Bentsen. THEN they went hard Right and gave us people like Phil Gramm, and then even worse - Cruz.

Imagine if they went Blue in a big way. What would that do to the Wingnut view of the world?

298
EPR-radar  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:44:00pm

re: #286 Backwoods_Sleuth

This revolution isn’t ending in even a whimper.
Just a chorus of laughs and snark.

Most excellent. I was getting irritated earlier at the apparent lack of action by the Feds, but this all seems to have been done competently. Particularly significant, IMO, is that it was handled in a way that seems unlikely to win any new converts to the stupid sovereign citizen/militia cause.

299
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:44:37pm

re: #264 klys (maker of Silmarils)

This is OT and related to a kerfluffle that happened in the hockey world, but I know there’s at least one or two Lizards besides me who like hockey, so I’m going to link it. If you don’t like hockey but enjoy a human interest type story, it’s probably also worth a look.

I was a big fan of John Scott before, but after reading this I wish my team would trade for him and bring him back again.

Thanks klys. What a story. I like sports, but it sure has some sides to it that are unlike any other ‘business’ and can be so heart wrenching.

As you know Columbus has had a real tough year and we traded our supposed #1 player for a top defensive player. (CBJ #1 center Ryan Johansen in exchange for Nashville defenseman Seth Jones) There was a lot of groaning from the fans, but another group was for it. So far it seems to be working out for both teams. Johansen was often criticized for dogging it and uninspired play and a lot of the fans wanted a top defender and said that was more our need. The Blue Jackets have been playing better, but were so far off in the points there is really no way to make the playoffs. Sigh.

300
darthstar  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:47:18pm
301
allegro  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:47:46pm

re: #235 WhatEVs

That’s 35% who say no. Let’s say some change their mind and 89% go Trump. That’s 20% who don’t. Trump loses.

I don’t see the numbers playing out for him in a general.

I’m also envisioning his debates with Hillary, should they be the nominees. We know he’ll pull some nasty sexist shit - he can’t help uimself - and Hillary is going to own him. This will not be lost on women, including Republicans. Hell, that has us defending Megyn, fercrissakes. I cannot see this asswipe winning a national election.

302
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:48:19pm

re: #294 Great White Snark

Take their pictures next time. Grab your DSLR or cell on video. The possibility of public humiliation in intimidating as is the DSLR.

Yeah, I was so angry I didn’t think about that till after the fact. I’m gonna start keeping my iPod Touch at my desk in case they come back.

303
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:50:46pm
304
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:52:16pm

re: #293 BeachDem

I’m skipping the debate. Just can’t take it.

Did TRUMP find a network to carry his snit fit?

I watching OSU basketball…and following the comments here. I’ve about had my fill of GOP ‘debates’ and I’ve sure had more than enough of Donald Lump ( o’ _ _ _ _ ).

305
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:52:20pm

re: #295 TedStriker

Oh, believe me, I feel your pain, C_L…being in the alarm business, we have to deal with the fallout from so-called “summer companies” (mostly unscrupulous and ethically challenged competitors who go out in groups, mostly during the spring and summer, to areas they don’t normally serve, in order to drum up new business). These “summer companies” tend to lie their asses off and misrepresent themselves as a matter of course, scaring and worrying some of our customers, most of whom call us to make sure that the flim-flamsters aren’t with us or just to let us know about them.

Ugh, it’s so damned unethical, y’know? Why would I want to do business with a company like that? I think they count on people not really paying attention. Also there are lots of immigrants around here, some of whom don’t speak English particularly well and could be easily fooled by cagey wording & official looking laminated ID tags attached to people’s shirts. Gah! *spit*

306
b_sharp  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:54:51pm

The private comments aren’t opening up for me.

Did Charles perfect the exclusion list feature?

307
darthstar  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:56:58pm

Ouch…#FeeltheBern indeed.
First they challenge you, and you mock them and don’t take them seriously.
Then they close on you, and you dismiss them as not a real threat.
Then they catch you and you attack them on guns, and try distractions like reparations talk.
And then they pass you and you ask for more debates.
And then they mock you.

308
WhatEVs  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:57:00pm

re: #304 ObserverArt

I watching OSU basketball…and following the comments here. I’ve about had my fill of GOP ‘debates’ and I’ve sure had more than enough of Donald Lump ( o’ _ _ _ _ ).

Laugh at me. I’ll accept it. I’m going to watch American Idol. I’d take that over GOPers every single day of the week.

309
Great White Snark  Jan 28, 2016 • 3:57:52pm

re: #305 CuriousLurker

Immigrants, elderly, the impaired and disadvantaged. These creepy companies see those people as mine-able for money. Just dig right and watch the dollars roll in. Wait a few weeks those same twenty something will be back with bogus voter registration papers or surveys, or like here in California bogus initiatives.

310
ObserverArt  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:02:48pm

re: #305 CuriousLurker

Ugh, it’s so damned unethical, y’know? Why would I want to do business with a company like that? I think they count on people not really paying attention. Also there are lots of immigrants around here, some of whom don’t speak English particularly well and could be easily fooled by cagey wording & official looking laminated ID tags attached to people’s shirts. Gah! *spit*

Ohio runs a website that allows consumers to follow energy costs. I use it all the time.

Since prices have been dropping, I have changed contracts 3 times this year all going for lower prices. All with no penalty for early termination. It also allows me to tell some of these same types of door-to-door pushers I use the site and I am perfectly happy. I think a guy stopped by yesterday, but I was on the phone and by the time I got downstairs and took a look out the front door peep hole he was leaving.

Does your state run a similar site? Maybe you could tell them the whole building is advised of costs and programs and they don’t need to come around anymore.

Here is a link to Ohio’s…http://www.energychoice.ohio.gov/

311
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:03:25pm

re: #276 HappyWarrior

I think they just don’t realize how much their tone can get on people’s nerves. It’s not all Bernie supporters but I swear I think many of them are assholes for treating people in the Democratic Party who have made their career working on campaigns in the party as not being real Democrats because they prefer Clinton is really grating to me. Sorry, you’re not a better Democrat just because you’re more left wing. It’s not like that.

And if they’re pontificating on the political landscape in Nevada and a/don’t get the importance of the unions in Las Vegas and b/have never heard of Jon Ralston, they’re either newbies or never paid attention to Nevada politics before. He was all over the John Ensign story from day one, as well as the Reid senate race and everything else.

312
majii  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:03:31pm

re: #280 HappyWarrior

I’ll never forget the Challenger disaster. I was home that day because the weather was bad, and county officials had called and said all system schools would be closed. I was very interested in the Challenger mission because Christa McAuliffe, a teacher, was on board. I can’t begin to describe the horror I experienced when the ship blew up shortly after liftoff. I’ve never gotten over it. Ron McNair was also a member of the team.

313
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:06:52pm

re: #299 ObserverArt

Thanks klys. What a story. I like sports, but it sure has some sides to it that are unlike any other ‘business’ and can be so heart wrenching.

As you know Columbus has had a real tough year and we traded our supposed #1 player for a top defensive player. (CBJ #1 center Ryan Johansen in exchange for Nashville defenseman Seth Jones) There was a lot of groaning from the fans, but another group was for it. So far it seems to be working out for both teams. Johansen was often criticized for dogging it and uninspired play and a lot of the fans wanted a top defender and said that was more our need. The Blue Jackets have been playing better, but were so far off in the points there is really no way to make the playoffs. Sigh.

The Jackets are just having a rough year. That start was going to be tough to recover from, and Torts’ system is going to take a little bit to fully establish. Also the injuries on the goaltending front haven’t helped. (Get better Bob!)

I think it was in Johansen’s best interest to not be in Columbus anymore, sadly. There was a lot of chatter about not getting along with Tortarella, which I think was probably very legit, and a change of environment is not a bad thing. Plus anytime you can get a good D, that’s not a bad deal.

We desperately need to make the playoffs this year because we traded our first round pick to Boston in exchange for our new starting goaltender and I don’t want to have handed them the #1 pick. Also the Devils are doing a hell of a lot better than anyone expected.

314
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:07:00pm

re: #220 gocart mozart

Yep-that’s THE man.

315
Lidane  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:13:24pm

This made me tear up today:

316
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:13:48pm

re: #310 ObserverArt

Ohio runs a website that allows consumers to follow energy costs. I use it all the time. […]

Does your state run a similar site? Maybe you could tell them the whole building is advised of costs and programs and they don’t need to come around anymore.

Here is a link to Ohio’s…http://www.energychoice.ohio.gov/

Hmm, I have no idea. I’ll have to goole that and maybe ask PSE&G about it tomorrow when I call them. Thanks for bringing it up.

317
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:14:50pm

re: #296 Jenner7

Cspan is covering it. He oversold his event….again.

C-span? Really? What the fuck does his ego massage have to do with government? Ugh.

318
Decatur Deb  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:17:23pm

re: #254 Patricia Kayden

I really hope that Clinton picks Castro as her VP. That would be a strategic and brilliant move, not only because he’s Latino but also because he’s young.

And Western.

319
BeachDem  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:19:03pm

re: #308 WhatEVs

Laugh at me. I’ll accept it. I’m going to watch American Idol. I’d take that over GOPers every single day of the week.

I’m watching Top Chef at 9.

320
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:22:57pm

re: #315 Lidane

This made me tear up today:

[Embedded content]

They’re what real patriots/heroes look. The school principal below also. They GIVE, they don’t TAKE and—unlike those asshole militia creeps—they do it for everyone , not just their own kind. They also do it without whining or trying to “negotiate” special benefits for themselves.

321
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:23:48pm

re: #319 BeachDem

I’m watching Top Chef at 9.

We’re watching Red Dawn while trying not to laugh too much at the campfire kids over at the bird sanctuary as that situation winds down.

322
Bubblehead II  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:27:54pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Posted on our gate.

323
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:29:21pm

re: #322 Bubblehead II

Posted on our gate.

Embedded Image

But I’m selling magazine subscriptions!
///

324
CuriousLurker  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:33:42pm

re: #322 Bubblehead II

Posted on our gate.

[Embedded content]

Heh, I googled “no soliciting” signs and there were some pretty funny/snarky ones. There was even one with Grump Cat shooting the bird and one that said “No soliciting unless you’re selling Thin Mints.”

325
Bubblehead II  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:33:52pm

re: #323 Blind Frog Belly White

But I’m selling magazine subscriptions!
///

Hence the “This includes everything” statement. I have actually watched people take pictures of this sign on my home video surveillance system.

326
Bubblehead II  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:39:20pm

re: #324 CuriousLurker

Heh, I googled “no soliciting” signs and there were some pretty funny/snarky ones. There was even one with Grump Cat shooting the bird and one that said “No soliciting unless you’re selling Thin Mints.”

Could you could post a few links to some of the more funny ones? Mine was to make it clear in no uncertain terms we didn’t want to be bothered. I am moving upstairs to the new thread do an OT and give the Lizards a laugh.

327
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 28, 2016 • 4:46:55pm

re: #324 CuriousLurker

Heh, I googled “no soliciting” signs and there were some pretty funny/snarky ones. There was even one with Grump Cat shooting the bird and one that said “No soliciting unless you’re selling Thin Mints.”

Girl Scouts selling Thin Mints are always exempt from the no soliciting rule.


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