Dear Diary: Today I Read an Article Defending People Who Think the Earth Is Flat

“In defense of Flat Earthers”
Weird • Views: 62,823

When I posted the video of Neil deGrasse Tyson’s appearance on The Nightly Show earlier today, in which he definitively slapped down the idea that’s been debunked for more than two millennia that the Earth is flat, I never thought I’d be reading an article at a major online publication defending people who promote this Stone Age idea — the very same night.

Aristotle debunked this foolish nonsense in the fourth century B.C., but here we are again: In Defense of Flat Earthers - The Atlantic.

Writer Lizzie Wade says she’s not actually trying to give credence to the flat Earth craziness, she’s just praising the people who spread it:

B.o.B’s Twitter crusade illuminates the best qualities of outsider physics: its skepticism, its curiosity, and its fierce desire to make sense of a confusing world in a rigorous way. These same values lie at the heart of mainstream science, too. They are what make science special. They are what make science science.

B.o.B is also, by the way, a Holocaust denier and a virulent antisemite. Are these values also part of mainstream science?

And this horrible, misguided article has comments. Yes, I did read the comments. Here are some of them.

A lot of people, including myself, who claim the earth is flat came to it reluctantly, but they were convinced by doing the math and geometry and looking at the observable phenomena. For hundreds of years people believed the earth was a globe without any proof, and now all the “proof” is coming from one government organization - NASA. Before you dismiss it, have a look at this summary. Then do your own math and observations with an open mind. Ask questions. Trust your own eyes. Think for yourself.

[…]

I like this article, it shows tolerance for things you know are wrong in a world filled with intolerance of others. The issue I have with man made climate change is that there’s too little real, actual evidence to back anything up. Pretty much computer models which are nowhere near accurate. Claiming the science is settled doesn’t exactly help the cause either, seeing as this kind of statement is very anti scientific. The attitude towards this “political” science is very suspect, and does not even come close to passing the baloney test. Let’s see if my fellow commenters are capable of tolerance for something they claim to know to be false.

[…]

The fact that globalists - including DGT - rely on ad hominem attacks against B.o.B’s character, his education, background etc shows they have no valid argument. Not surprising, as there really is NO valid argument to defend the globe theory - an appeal to history and tradition do not constitute ‘valid arguments’ or Flat-Earthers would be continuously pointing out the Pyramids of Giza and Chichen Itza, and the ancient ruins of Machu Pichu, Teotihuacan, etc etc all designed and built by ‘dumbass, uneducated’ Flat Earthers….

[…]

As I’ve learned to distrust the government more and more these past few years, I looked into this Flat Earth a bit and quite honestly, they have some good points to consider.

[…]

Earth is flat 100%. Nasa fakes everything. Lookup My Perspective on YouTube, he has tons of proof it’s flat.

[…]

I don’t expect you guys to look into it because many are content with believing what they are told. Many watch SPACEX land their rocket and think way to go, awesome! Others think… didn’t we go to the moon, land a rocket, then re-fired it and it docked with the spacecraft and returned home WITH HUMANS INSIDE 50 years ago? So, while you may think you are intellectuals, you also think we went to the moon. So many people don’t realize what is crazier… knowing the earth is flat or knowing that they are spinning 1000 mph, going 66,000 mph around a 93 million mile sun while in our 584 million mile yearly orbit. So, you can think your smart all you want. Do you know how to figure the curve from Hawaii to California? It is 8” x distance squared. Do the math and then go try to measure the 789 foot curvature. Oh, my mistake… it is 789 MILES OF CURVE. MILES! Sorry guys, look into it… we were all lied to. Water is level… no in 789 mile high humps.

[…]

Love your article.
In highs chool we had a history teacher and in fact he used this exact example of all us kids believing the earth is round just because we were told.

Unfortunately there was a nerd in the class who came up with a quick estimate of the earths radius based on some snapshots he had of sailboats. Ruined everything.

Someone at The Atlantic really should have stepped in before this awful piece went live.

UPDATE at 1/30/16 7:52:46 pm by Charles Johnson

Science correspondent Lizzie Wade tweets:

Jump to bottom

361 comments
1
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:35:25pm

What’s underneath?

2
PhillyPretzel  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:36:28pm

re: #1 jaunte

The Netherworld. /// …

3
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:36:36pm

re: #1 jaunte

A layer of warm ciabatta bread.

4
b.d.  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:36:49pm

re: #1 jaunte

What’s underneath?

Oil!

5
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:36:54pm

This is vaguely sort-of associated if you squint but kind of cool.

6
PhillyPretzel  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:37:39pm

re: #3 Reckless Disregard

That sounds good. :)

7
freetoken  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:38:07pm
8
jamesfirecat  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:38:21pm

If I might paraphrase Hubert Pharnsworth..,

“I don’t want to live on this planet anymore!”

Luckily if the planet is flat I should just be able to find an edge and jump off…

9
b.d.  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:38:23pm

Repost from downstairs just cuz.

Trump 2016!
10
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:38:36pm

re: #1 jaunte

What’s underneath?

Its turtles all the way down.

11
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:38:50pm

A papyrus from 230 B.C. :
Eratosthenes Finds Diameter of Earth!

Eratosthenes made a remarkably precise measurement of the size of the earth. He knew that at the summer solstice the sun shone directly into a well at Syene at noon. He found that at the same time, in Alexandria, Egypt, approximately 787 km due north of Syene (now Aswan), the angle of inclination of the sun’s rays was about 7.2’. With these measurements he computed the diameter and circumference of the earth as we will do.
outreach.as.utexas.edu

12
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:39:56pm

re: #1 jaunte

What’s underneath?

Morlocks

13
Barefoot Grin  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:40:03pm

I posted this in the last thread, but I’m wine-buzzed enough to think it merits reposting (it was supposed to be a razz on the flat-earthers):

The earth is like a shiny coin balanced on its edge between God’s finger and a bar top. When God idly flicked the coin while awaiting another drink, the earth began to spin. The earth’s spin will slowly decrease in God’s bar time until it comes to rest. In human terms, we are now at “last call.”

14
PhillyPretzel  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:40:05pm

re: #11 jaunte

Now that makes sense. The rest of that ^%$# does not make any sense.

15
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:40:23pm
Yes, I did read the comments.

Noooooo! Never read the comments!

16
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:40:47pm

re: #7 freetoken

[Embedded content]

That’s such a classic Fucking Media Weasel answer. “I don’t think, I just report.” Grrr.

17
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:41:40pm

re: #16 Pawn of the Oppressor

Chuck Todd and Lizzie Wade. GAH

18
stpaulbear  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:42:14pm

re: #7 freetoken

It’s not my job..

You and Chuck Todd, lady.

edit: t o o s l o w

19
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:42:16pm

re: #10 Big Beautiful Door

Its turtles all the way down.

What happened to the elephant?

20
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:42:39pm

Archimedes

21
PhillyPretzel  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:42:55pm

re: #19 BeenHereAwhile

He died. /half

22
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:43:01pm

re: #19 BeenHereAwhile

What happened to the elephant?

What do you think the elephant is standing on? Another turtle. Geeze.

23
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:43:36pm

More than every other conspiracy theory, the flat earth conspiracy collapses under the weight of the millions of people who have to be collaborating in it.

24
jamesfirecat  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:44:15pm

re: #19 BeenHereAwhile

What happened to the elephant?

Why singular shouldn’t it be plural, there are four elephants!

25
Charles Johnson  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:45:12pm

Lizzie Wade is actually a science writer for Wired too. Fucking unreal.

26
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:46:14pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Lizzie Wade is actually a science writer for Wired too. Fucking unreal.

She got a lot of attention for herself though, didn’t she? In the Age of Trump, that’s all that matters.

27
freetoken  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:47:00pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Her job, which apparently is not to defend science or promote people becoming scientists, is to generate web hits for electronic media companies.

This now is the model for our “economy.”

28
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:47:48pm
“…Two complex ideas, the wheel and the globe, are grooved into our minds from infancy. It was only 5500 years ago that we finally saw how a rotating wheel could produce forward motion. Recognizing that Earth’s apparently flat surface bends into the shape of a sphere was even more recent. Some cultures imagined Earth as a disc, some, box-shaped. The Egyptians said it was an egg, guarded at night by the moon. Only 2500 years ago, the Greeks finally decided Earth was a sphere. Plato argued that, since the sphere is a perfect shape, Earth must be spherical. Aristotle used observation. He pointed to the circular shadow Earth casts on the moon during an eclipse.”
uh.edu
29
freetoken  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:48:21pm

re: #26 Big Beautiful Door

She got a lot of attention for herself though, didn’t she? In the Age of Trump, that’s all that matters.

Yes, yes, The Age of Trump, wherein being loud is the ultimate value.

30
20Hz  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:48:48pm

Lizzie Wade has no understanding of what makes science science. If she thinks this type of nonsense deserves any defense.

31
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:48:53pm

re: #22 Reality Based Steve

What do you think the elephant is standing on? Another turtle. Geeze.

So you’re saying the elephant is irrelevant.

32
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:53:46pm

re: #31 BeenHereAwhile

So you’re saying the elephant is irrelevant.

Much like the GOP

RBS

33
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:54:00pm
34
A Cranky One  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:54:14pm

re: #31 BeenHereAwhile

So you’re saying the elephant is irrelevant.

LGF is an elephant?

35
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:56:01pm

re: #33 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Now that is ironic, given that all the GOP candidates are falsely accusing PP of selling babby parts.

36
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:56:03pm

Slightly alerted version of something I just posted down-thread on this subject.

Folks like flat-earthers tend to start their search for veracity by trusting their own faculties over everybody else’s faculties. Ergo their “impressions” and naive theorems are given undue weight, and a more thorough systematic method of modeling/hypothesizing is treated as less or equally valid. I don’t know if there’s a fallacy term for this, but there’s a trend I think of as the “temporarily embarassed Galileo.” It’s evoked both cynically and earnestly—that you’re so clever you’ve skipped over everyone else, and they’ll have to catch up to understand how right you are.

This is the science edition of one of my favorite chewtoys: narcissism bends epistemology around it. Usually I invoke it when dealing with politics, but it also applies to scientific veracity. If you don’t apply skepticism to your own thinking, you’re really just interacting with the world seeking confirmation.

The thing is, there’s a tipping point: either you can concede you might not have everything buttoned down, or you can claim the rest of the world is wrong. Hence the appeal to conspiracy: no evidence isn’t no evidence, it’s evidence maliciously concealed.

A great example—and, ironically, a man who just burst forth with a rant about “the Internet killed truth”—is Bill Maher.

Maher isn’t actually smart—he just has the verbal skills to act smart in a audio-visual format (resisting the opportunity to worry another chew-toy, failure to recognize verisimilitude as opposed to veracity)—but he sure as fuck imagines himself to be. Hence ever single one of his rants about health amounting to “I don’t believe this, people I like don’t believe this, so it must not be true, and all evidence it’s true must be counterfeit.”

All of the above applies to flat earthers, and it’s why they’re not doing science, and not part of a healthy community of inquiry…they are not fucking interested in what anyone else has to say, nor in the manner in which other people have arrived at their conclusions. In science, the how and when matters as much as why.

This is why we don’t give a lot of credit to Plato, who was inferring shit on the basis of his concept of mathematical elegance. We *do* give credit to Aristotle for his observational proof, but not for his own vague blurghity-blurgh about natural tendencies of objects.

37
Jenner7  Jan 30, 2016 • 7:56:48pm

New music from Massive Attack.

Video

38
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:01:45pm

This isn’t uni-directional, by the way.

There are few things more irksome than a “STEM” scientist making incredibly stupid pronouncements about human nature using naive personal observation, but imagining it must be valid because they’re “soft sciences.”

*cough* Richard Dawkins *cough*

One of those more-irksome thing is engineers doing the same things.

39
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:02:24pm

re: #27 freetoken

I’m afraid that my future writing courses will be nothing more than teaching the art of clickbait.

40
gocart mozart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:02:27pm
What’s underneath?

Underneath, they be monsters.

41
100th Monkey  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:02:38pm

re: #9 b.d.

Repost from downstairs just cuz.

[Embedded content]

Shamelessly purloined for my avi.

42
20Hz  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:04:05pm

This flat earth nonsense is usually packaged with a right- wing extremist political program as well.

43
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:05:44pm

re: #39 Reckless Disregard

I’m afraid that my future writing courses will be nothing more than teaching the art of clickbait.

“You’ll never guess what happens next!”

44
KGxvi  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:07:42pm

re: #38 Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis

This isn’t uni-directional, by the way.

There are few things more irksome than a “STEM” scientist making incredibly stupid pronouncements about human nature using naive personal observation, but imagining it must be valid because they’re “soft sciences.”

*cough* Richard Dawkins *cough*

One of those more-irksome thing is engineers doing the same things.

Almost everyone does it. It takes an incredible level of self awareness to admit you don’t know or more importantly understand something. Most people aren’t capable of that - instead they think because they’ve figured THIS THING out that their understanding of THIS THING applies to ALL THE THINGS.

45
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:09:01pm

re: #43 jaunte

I shut down someone last semester who wanted to have a mock Buzzfeed design for their proposal project. Uh no.

46
Barefoot Grin  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:09:07pm

re: #39 Reckless Disregard

I’m afraid that my future writing courses will be nothing more than teaching the art of clickbait.

You’ll be ok. Just advertise your courses as “mind blowing.”

47
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:09:10pm

Well, Chuck has done something I never have.

48
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:10:23pm

One of my fellow divers (who is a local cop) just sent me a text. He was making a patrol through one of the motel parking lots and he found a HUGE dildo lying in the parking lot. He’s got it in his squad car now, says it still has that “new dildo smell”.

Didn’t ask him how he would know.

RBS

49
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:11:18pm

re: #39 Reckless Disregard

I’m afraid that my future writing courses will be nothing more than teaching the art of clickbait.

This one weird trick drives instructors crazy!

50
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:12:41pm

re: #49 Reality Based Steve

That’s called using sources from WND.

51
WhatEVs  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:12:44pm

re: #47 FormerDirtDart

Well, Chuck has done something I never have.

[Embedded content]

Jeez, I agree with Grassley.

Stopped Earth moment. :-)

52
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:13:46pm

re: #38 Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis

This isn’t uni-directional, by the way.

There are few things more irksome than a “STEM” scientist making incredibly stupid pronouncements about human nature using naive personal observation, but imagining it must be valid because they’re “soft sciences.”

*cough* Richard Dawkins *cough*

One of those more-irksome thing is engineers doing the same things.

Engineers and Medical Doctors.

53
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:18:22pm

OK, I finally watched 1st episode of new X-Files

Meh…

54
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:20:40pm
55
KingKenrod  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:20:46pm

These people aren’t motivated by a “questing spirit”, they’re motivated by paranoia.

Also, “outsider physics” isn’t physics if you ignore evidence.

56
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:21:21pm

re: #53 FormerDirtDart

OK, I finally watched 1st episode of new X-Files

Meh…

Click to Reveal

Did Mulder just team up with the offspring of a Alex Jones-Glenn Beck mpreg fanfic?

Because that’s kind of an index of how this “conspiracy” shit doesn’t float so good these days. You have to outcompete those that are selling it dead serious.

Also…wooden acting…or excellent acting while on Thorazine?

57
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:21:50pm

re: #51 WhatEVs

Jeez, I agree with Grassley.

Stopped Earth moment. :-)

Grassley and I, we’re good now.

58
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:21:52pm

re: #55 KingKenrod

Outsider physics does make one a good guest for Coast to Coast AM.

59
Kryptik  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:22:02pm

Hey.

Media folks. So-called Journalists.

When Krugman proclaimed that if someone declared the earth flat, the media would run with headlines of ‘Shape of Planet — Views Differ’?

He was trying to make an analogy, not giving you a guide to work off of, holy sweet mother mercy christ, you ignorant, enabling worthless twitwits.

60
KingKenrod  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:22:24pm

re: #53 FormerDirtDart

OK, I finally watched 1st episode of new X-Files

Meh…

Allegedly it gets better. I’m finding it hard to keep watching after the first episode though.

61
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:24:43pm

re: #20 The Vicious Babushka

Eratosthenes. Archimedes was the lever guy.

62
allegro  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:25:42pm

re: #53 FormerDirtDart

OK, I finally watched 1st episode of new X-Files

Meh…

I didn’t see the first, but did watch the second and I liked it a lot. Looking forward to #3.

63
goddamnedfrank  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:28:11pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Lizzie Wade is actually a science writer for Wired too. Fucking unreal.

Kind of reminds me of the Amanda Hess’ article in Slate speculating about the reason Chuck was banned from Twitter. In which she quoted Weev’s complaints and reported “confusion” about Twitter’s as if they were legitimate, while totally neglecting to mention that Auernheimer was a swastika tattooed neo-nazi.

That shit was insane. She knew goddamned well that Chuck was banned for targeted harassment against Deray and there she was quoting an overt racist neo-nazi while deliberately refusing to inform her readers of that fact.

Also relevant because she was ostensibly working as a technology writer at the time, which makes me think this kind of glaring omission is part of the new industry publishing model. I see it as clickbait through strategic omission. It must appeal to people who think they’re being intelligent by being open minded and entertaining blatantly fuckery.

64
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:29:01pm

re: #56 Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis

[Embedded content]

re: #60 KingKenrod

Allegedly it gets better. I’m finding it hard to keep watching after the first episode though.

I mean, Joel McHale…I look at him and all I see is The Soup
If FOX insisted on using a cable talk show host, at least they could have spent some money and tried to get Jon Stewart

65
Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:31:06pm

re: #60 KingKenrod

Allegedly it gets better. I’m finding it hard to keep watching after the first episode though.

I’m happy they’re paying Gillian Anderson, because she gets all the money for her performances on “Hannibal” and “The Fall.”

My desire to kick Mulder over and over in the balls was…nostalgic. He’s lost the novelty that made him periodically bearable.

Also, rewatch assuming that Duchovney’s Mulder is also the hand model in Zoolander. It’s uncanny.

At this point, that’s about as much as I can say that’s kind.

66
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:32:49pm

As I peer inside the album cover of the KBC Band I see the picture of a road, with a car travelling on it and sign in the distance that says….

Life Is a Test. Had this been a real life, you would have been told where to go and what to do.

67
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:34:31pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

Auernheimer was is a swastika tattooed neo-nazi.

FTFY

68
KerFuFFler  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:35:29pm

re: #48 Reality Based Steve

One of my fellow divers (who is a local cop) just sent me a text. He was making a patrol through one of the motel parking lots and he found a HUGE dildo lying in the parking lot. He’s got it in his squad car now, says it still has that “new dildo smell”.

Didn’t ask him how he would know.

RBS

“new dildo smell” Too bizarre a name even for a band most desperately eager to offend and provoke!

69
WhatEVs  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:35:42pm

re: #57 SoundGuy 2016

Grassley and I, we’re good now.

Yeah…….not so much. :-)

70
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:36:04pm

This thread is exactly why I decided to make my ‘blog home’ LGF. (Well, perhaps the most important! There are cats, as well!) I publish a magazine that is factually based, but does lead into some conjecture, and we really work so hard over making sure we have dotted all of those t’s and crossed all those i’s ///, so that anyone who is reading in a halfway reasonable way will understand the difference. It requires constant care, and so many people would just want to slap things together, not worrying about it. It’s just words, after all. Just. Words.

edit: dadgummit!

71
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:36:22pm

It’s Nuketown USA around casa de teleskiguy. It has snowed eight inches in about three hours up at the ski area and it’s still coming down hard. All told, we’re supposed to get two feet plus from now until Monday.

72
Kryptik  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:36:29pm

re: #68 KerFuFFler

“new dildo smell” Too bizarre a name even for a band most desperately eager to offend and provoke!

It is, however, the perfect album name for such a band.

73
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:37:52pm

re: #72 Kryptik

I’m pretty sure there’s a single release LP with that title by a northwest Rrrt Grrl band.

74
Joe Bacon  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:38:55pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Sorry, Rachel. We don’t do that in Ayn Rand’s America once kids leave the womb…

75
WhatEVs  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:38:56pm

re: #60 KingKenrod

Allegedly it gets better. I’m finding it hard to keep watching after the first episode though.

The 2nd epi was pretty good. But Fox being Fox, they’re supposedly airing the episodes out of order (Dear God, please smite anyone who makes that decision. Love, Me). Exactly what they did to screw up every SciFi show in recent years. So…I’ll watch the whole series and hope for the collective best.

76
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:42:34pm

I just read the article in The Atlantic. She tries to defend “fringe scientists” by praising their creativity and inquisitive natures, saying that’s just like real scientists’ motivations. She omits the most important difference between the two groups: real science has to agree with the available evidence and be consistent with the science already extant. Also, science has to both explain and predict. Fringe science fails at all of that.

Lizzie’s article is like praising dotty Aunt Tillie for suggesting the electricity leaks out of an empty light socket, so you’d better put a bulb in so you don’t waste it.

I may write something about this later. Right now, I am a tourist on holiday.

77
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:44:05pm

I wonder what it costs for one night at the Des Moines Residence Inn on Feb. 2. $50-$75?

78
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:46:37pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

I remember the milkman when I was a kid.

79
Kryptik  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:49:53pm

re: #76 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

I just read the article in The Atlantic. She tries to defend “fringe scientists” by praising their creativity and inquisitive natures, saying that’s just like real scientists’ motivations. She omits the most important difference between the two groups: real science has to agree with the available evidence and be consistent with the science already extant. Also, science has to both explain and predict. Fringe science fails at all of that.

Lizzie’s article is like praising dotty Aunt Tillie for suggesting the electricity leaks out of an empty light socket, so you’d better put a bulb in so you don’t waste it.

I may write something about this later. Right now, I am a tourist on holiday.

I mean…holy shit. Inquisitive nature is how we came upon the idea of a spherical earth, except, you know, verifiable, with actual corroborating results that didn’t amount to reading tea leaves and consulting astrology charts. Verifiable enough that we know the earth is only mostly spherical (in other words, obloid). This thick-headed idiot wants to give flat-earthers blue ribbons for effort. Science is more than questioning things that need to be questioned, it’s actually going through the rigors of testing those questions and preconceptions in verifiable ways, not looking in a random direction, reading some random theory, and then thinking you’re the smartest guy in the fucking room.

80
jaunte  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:50:07pm

re: #77 FormerDirtDart

81
allegro  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:50:23pm

re: #78 Big Beautiful Door

I remember the milkman when I was a kid.

I do too. Remember the rumors too. Oh my!

82
bratwurst  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:51:03pm

Actually, a correct translation of the cover is:

Insanity: America’s Rabble-Rouser Donald Trump

83
stpaulbear  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:52:15pm

re: #80 jaunte

Only if they have a waffle maker.

84
LoonRadio  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:52:41pm

“The Earth could be shaped like a CARROT and cast a circular shadow on the moon!”
—drug-induced hallucination— Illuminatus Trilogy.
/

85
scottslemmons  Jan 30, 2016 • 8:55:20pm

We could place her in a rocket and launch her into orbit so she could investigate the shape of the Earth from there.

After that, we could steer the rocket into the sun so she could investigate whether the sun orbits the Earth.

86
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:02:15pm

re: #85 scottslemmons

We could place her in a rocket and launch her into orbit so she could investigate the shape of the Earth from there.

After that, we could steer the rocket into the sun so she could investigate whether the sun orbits the Earth.

Can we call the ship “Heart of Gold”?

RBS

87
FormerDirtDart  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:02:36pm

Enough internet for today…
I’d think about avoiding exposure tomorrow, but I’m pretty much hooked on Little Militia on the Prairie, and got to find out what happens in the next episode…

88
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:03:22pm

They probably don’t believe the space station exists, but don’t they ever fly? What about going up in a hot air balloon? Just lying eyes?

89
Reckless Disregard  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:04:33pm

re: #88 retired cynic

Boards of Canada - Dayvan Cowboy

I’m pretty sure those people would just claim this to be a hoax.

90
scottslemmons  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:04:41pm

re: #88 retired cynic

They probably don’t believe the space station exists, but don’t they ever fly? What about going up in a hot air balloon? Just lying eyes?

It’s the Devil trickin’ ‘em! The dang ol’ Devil!

91
Reality Based Steve  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:04:48pm

re: #87 FormerDirtDart

Enough internet for today…
I’d think about avoiding exposure tomorrow, but I’m pretty much hooked on Little Militia on the Prairie, and got to find out what happens in the next episode…

I’m outta here myself. Going to go down and help out with a pool session tomorrow. (not really, they don’t need my help, but I’ve got some gear I want to test before I head to Florida next weekend)

Be Good, and if you can’t be good, at least be good at it.

RBS

92
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:05:08pm

Speaking of Bill Maher….

Last night’s Real Time with Bill Maher featured a segment ultimately suggesting that if it smells like bullshit, it might be the milk of arthritic goats.

Maher hosted—and seemed to take seriously—Dr. Samir Chachoua, who famously injected himself with Charlie Sheen’s blood while treating the HIV-positive actor in Mexico, as revealed on an episode of Dr. Oz that ran earlier this month. Chachoua is not licensed to practice medicine in the U.S., a fact glossed over by Maher, who repeatedly gave the “doctor” the benefit of the doubt as a beacon of hope in the fight against AIDS. Maher furthermore denigrated the usefulness of the antiretroviral drugs that are proven life-savers to promote Chachoua’s supposed miracle cure.

93
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:07:25pm

The round earth conspiracy because why? Why are literally tens of millions of people purposefully covering up the flat earth truth? The space agencies of the US, Russia, China, Japan, Europe and India are all fraudulant. All satellite technology is faked and so are the moon and Mars landings along with all space probes. Steve Fossett is a liar because it is obviously impossible to flight circumnavigate the planet nonstop. Etc, etc, etc…

For the love of Dog, WHY?

94
Kryptik  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:11:23pm

re: #93 ausador

The round earth conspiracy because why? Why are literally tens of millions of people purposefully covering up the flat earth truth? The space agencies of the US, Russia, China, Japan, Europe and India are all fraudulant. All satellite technology is faked and so are the moon and Mars landings along with all space probes. Steve Fossett is a liar because it is obviously impossible to flight circumnavigate the planet nonstop. Etc, etc, etc…

For the love of Dog, WHY?

Same reason for the great massive worldwide conspiracy of climate change that has its hooks into all the major scientific agencies around the world, clearly.

95
Belafon  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:15:34pm

Flat earthers are the kind of people that get surprised at the stop sign at the end of their street every morning. If you cover your eyes, they can’t see you any more.

I would love to see their explanation for it being summer in Australia, and daylight on the other half of the planet right now.

96
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:19:16pm

Flat Earthers. Granted legitimacy in the Atlantic.

Oh Sweet Meteor of Death, where art thou?

97
Belafon  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:20:02pm

re: #96 teleskiguy

Flat Earthers. Granted legitimacy in the Atlantic.

Oh Sweet Meteor of Death, where art thou?

It’s currently sitting back, laughing at us. “Why do I need to do anything? They’ll do it to themselves.”

98
William Lewis  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:30:46pm

re: #72 Kryptik

It is, however, the perfect album name for such a band.

I’m reminded of the 2 Urban Guerrillas albums: Darwin’s Theory of Pelvic Revolution & Attack of the Pink Heat Seeking Moisture Missiles :)

99
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:35:46pm

LGF comments have done a fine job of distilling what I think and how I feel about flat earth advocates, anti-science bad craziness and closing off of minds.

I’ll just put this here, for all the folks that qualify in what I’ve listed above.

100
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:39:47pm

Neil deGrasse Tyson fucking nailed it on Larry Wilmore’s show.

The beginning of the end of our informed democracy. Chilling thought.

101
Charles Johnson  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:41:35pm

Argh.

102
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:41:47pm

Exactly…

103
sagehen  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:42:54pm

This seems a good time to revive one of my all-time favorite articles from the Great Orange Satan, as meaningful today as it was ten years ago:

Tonight on Hardball… Planet Earth: Round or Flat?
dailykos.com

MEHLMAN: I’ll respond to that specifically in a minute, Chris. But I first want to respond to something the professor said earlier. He said he consults for a laboratory in Pasadena.

MATTHEWS: Yes, he did. Please go on.

MEHLMAN: Pasadena is very close to Hollywood — home of Barbra Streisand, Martin Sheen and Rob Reiner. That tells you a little bit about where the professor is coming from.

CRANIUM: Chris, this line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.

MEHLMAN: Call it what you will, professor, but this is why George W. Bush was re-elected and the American people kept both the House and Senate in Republican hands in 2004. We embrace American values. The professor embraces Hollywood values.

MATTHEWS: Professor, how about that? Do you deny that Pasadena is close to Hollywood?

104
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:44:11pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

“America’s weather-predicting boyfriend.” GAH!

105
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:44:45pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

Argh.

[Embedded content]

That is fucking maddening, man.

106
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:45:38pm

re: #105 teleskiguy

It was Snape. It was always Snape.

107
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:46:02pm

Is it too soon to use an Alan Rickman gif?

108
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:47:45pm

re: #107 teleskiguy

Never.

109
sagehen  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:48:04pm

re: #1 jaunte

What’s underneath?

Turtles. It’s turtles all the way down.

110
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:48:43pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

LOOK AT US LIBERALS AND STARE IN AWE AT HOW OPEN-MINDED WE ARE!!!

This shit makes me want to puke. What utter horseshit.

111
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:51:02pm
112
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:51:47pm

re: #109 sagehen

Turtles. It’s turtles all the way down.

Ask Steve Fossett, he obviously had to fly under there while circumnavigating the planet.

/

113
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:54:21pm

lol…

114
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:54:43pm

re: #112 ausador

Ask Steve Fossett, he obviously had to fly under there while circumnavigating the planet.

/

I would, but he died doing what he loved.

He owned a home in Beaver Creek, where I work.

I took a run with Jerry Ford, also a homeowner, when I was a kid. He was a good skier.

115
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 9:58:35pm

Obviously not a big reader of Politifact or Snopes…

116
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:00:51pm

re: #115 ausador

Son Ted might believe that stuff about being (himself) chosen, but I would bet anything Good Old Dad knows he (himself) is full of crap.

117
Kragar  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:02:05pm
118
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:04:17pm

re: #117 Kragar

119
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:06:58pm

What is an electrolyte?

It’s…what they use to make Brawndo!

120
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:13:54pm

I just can’t even…

121
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:16:10pm

re: #120 ausador

I just can’t even…

[Embedded content]

OMFG

122
retired cynic  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:16:31pm

That’s all for me tonight. I’m heading for bed! GAH!

123
Decatur Deb  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:21:04pm

re: #120 ausador

I just can’t even…

[Embedded content]

Some people will do anything to get a head.

124
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:22:19pm

ausador, you are about to tweet for the 10,000th time. Make it count!

125
Odie Hugh Manatee  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:24:55pm

While some morons may want to believe that the earth is flat, I do know that a piece of our earth here in Oregon has decided that flat isn’t where it’s at.

I won’t go in to details but this hole is the result of the area known as Harbor, Oregon refusing to incorporate or join Brookings (where I live), preferring to mooch off of our city, county or the state for free stuff or to bail them out when shit inevitably fails. The problem is a high concentration of retirees from out of state who don’t want to pay for anything but want everything. No emergency room, no hospital, no city services… just mooch off of the surrounding area or make everyone suffer (refusing to join the north county health district) by having to go thirty miles in either north or south for emergent care.

I like to joke that you could drag a $100 dollar bill south through Harbor and by the time you got to the California border everyone in the area would be chasing it.

126
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:31:04pm

re: #124 teleskiguy

ausador, you are about to tweet for the 10,000th time. Make it count!

Now I can’t retweet anything, too much pressure, thanks!

///

127
Kragar  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:35:47pm
128
Cheechako  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:39:20pm

Why am I not surprised:

Blaine Cooper and Ted Cruz

From:

rawstory.com

129
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:43:16pm
130
William Lewis  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:48:05pm

re: #129 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

OK I’m so square that the last time I got a dime was decades ago. What is that in the machine?

131
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:57:58pm

re: #130 William Lewis

OK I’m so square that the last time I got a dime was decades ago. What is that in the machine?

Two or three nuggets.

132
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 10:59:50pm

re: #130 William Lewis

OK I’m so square that the last time I got a dime was decades ago. What is that in the machine?

Marijuana bud bits apparently, not really a good idea, too wet and they’ll mold, too dry and they’ll crumble to dust. Should be packaged in those little plastic globes they put toy rings and such stuff into.

133
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:01:42pm
134
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:06:01pm

Furry bookmark? Doesn’t seem all that practical…

135
teleskiguy  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:06:09pm

This much snow has fallen at the ski area in about six hours.

136
William Lewis  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:08:57pm

re: #133 ausador

[Embedded content]

Someone should fix the text to:

A real American unlike the thieves and thugs of Y’all Quida.

137
vgranucci  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:14:46pm

re: #1 jaunte

It’s Turtles all the way down.

Edit: I see someone was ahead of me.

138
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:24:37pm

re: #133 ausador

WORD’S IS APPARENTLY ONE OF THOSE THING’S WE HAVE TROUBLE WITH

Goddamn these stupid fucking people. How did this sickness become part of American culture? I know “they” say the same thing about everybody to the left of Genghis Khan, but seriously, it’s like some people’s politics absolutely must reflect their inadequacies at all times. It’s sick.

139
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:35:31pm

“Rural lives matter”
More sovereign citizen 101 indoctrination, law enforcement or somebody needs to start talking to locals about the real constitution.

140
freetoken  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:54:45pm

The last lady has sung, so to speak, in the polling opera:

The Best Pollster In Iowa Just Released Its Final Survey — How Accurate Has It Been?

Basically, Trump is leading. This is different than the previous version of the DSM Register poll from 3 weeks ago, when Cruz was leading. It’s an 8 point swing over the 3 weeks:

realclearpolitics.com

All of the most recent polls show Trump leading in Iowa.

I guess we’ll see Monday night.

141
ausador  Jan 30, 2016 • 11:59:54pm
142
CuriousLurker  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:01:33am

re: #133 ausador

re: #139 ausador

I knew I should’ve stuck to Netflix…
143
100th Monkey  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:16:31am
Heh…
144
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:17:20am

Are as The Donald calls it, “the summer cottage.”
///

145
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:19:33am
146
William Lewis  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:34:26am

re: #145 ausador

No surprise that he was a real soldier who saw what combat was like rather than like these domestic terrorists.

Thanks, sheriff.

147
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 31, 2016 • 1:20:06am

re: #144 ausador

I was there once, way back when I was in high school.

148
freetoken  Jan 31, 2016 • 2:04:48am

re: #145 ausador

MP3 Audio

149
Alephnaught  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:13:41am

UK broadcasting legend Terry Wogan has died. :(

150
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:30:04am



ignorant people are so much easier to manipulate

151
100th Monkey  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:44:23am

re: #150 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

My preferred cosmological model
152
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:50:53am
Take a look especially at the tweet that started it all: “The cities in the background are approx. 16 miles apart … where is the curve? please explain this.” There’s something touchingly genuine about this to me, some deep seated desire to work through confusion and toward truth. This isn’t a man who never learned science, or who has some fundamentalist objection to examining empirical evidence about the world. This is a man who has looked at the world around him and decided that mainstream science isn’t doing a good job at explaining what he sees. So he’s collecting evidence, seeking out literature by well-versed “experts,” and working out a better theory on his own.

There’s no deep seated desire to work through confusion and toward truth. What a crock. That would be reading some books or reading up on the science instead of some hipster rebellion, being contrary just for the sake of it.

153
Kragar  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:51:09am

re: #151 100th Monkey

154
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:55:34am

I appreciate a healthy skepticism and distrust of authority but it does not mean that your layman ignorance is as good as someone else’s expert knowledge.

And it seems that we are no longer teaching people what science is and how it works. Means that too many people confuse and conflate it with religion and superstition.

155
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:59:45am

One can’t forget that towards the edges —“thare b monsters”

156
100th Monkey  Jan 31, 2016 • 3:59:54am

re: #153 Kragar

What mythos does that belong to?

157
100th Monkey  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:00:31am

re: #156 100th Monkey

Dark Tower?

158
Kragar  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:01:17am

re: #156 100th Monkey

What mythos does that belong to?

Planescape, 2d Edition D&D

159
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:08:43am

life hacks video

Facebook Post

160
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:14:23am
“This assumes that if you know (you are pregnant) you’ll act responsibly,” he told the Anchorage Daily News. “Birth control is for people who don’t necessarily want to act responsibly.”

Sounds like Flat-Earth Logic.

161
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:21:13am
162
William Lewis  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:23:10am

re: #153 Kragar

They put a version of that in the 5th edition PHB.

163
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:31:30am

trying to go back to bed …

have a good one all!

164
Jayleia  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:34:53am

re: #162 William Lewis

There is only D&D, AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed…nothing else

165
William Lewis  Jan 31, 2016 • 4:41:33am

re: #164 Jayleia

There is only D&D, AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed…nothing else

Real gaming will always be Traveller and 2 D6. For fooling around at gaming, the odd numbered versions of D&D will do ok.

166
Eventual Carrion  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:03:38am

re: #143 100th Monkey

[Embedded content]

We had a cockerpoo with curly hair that would pick up snow like that. I called them her snow dingleberries. My sisters called her Snoopy because she spent a lot of her time on top of her doghouse.

167
Tigger2  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:11:38am

Yep True. LOL

168
PhillyPretzel  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:15:07am

re: #161 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

I could not agree more. His quote is as good as a remark that I use, “Do not inflict your religion on me.”

169
WhatEVs  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:33:11am

re: #139 ausador

“Rural lives matter”
More sovereign citizen 101 indoctrination, law enforcement or somebody needs to start talking to locals about the real constitution.

[Embedded content]

Morning all!

They spelled Finicum’s name wrong.

That poor guy, @patztense, recently moved to rural OR. His tweets are pretty good; funny, ironic.

170
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:40:01am

re: #161 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Embedded Image

Exactly.

171
A Mom Anon  Jan 31, 2016 • 5:59:23am

I’m going to have to partially blame the freaking internet for this ridiculous stuff. Everyone’s a fucking expert now because they can type shit into a search engine and find the results they want.

My neighbor (the wife of the couple with all the guns who hate Obama) is now neck deep in homeopathic and “natural” medicine, anti GMO (I doubt she even gets what that is), and is using essential oils as part of a never ending quest to lose weight. I have asked her countless times to come, bring one of her dogs and go walking with me. Nope, she’d rather spend 199.99 on a set of 10 oils (non GMO and all organic, of course) for every ailment you can think of, from migraines and losing weight to cancer and cramps. She has a college degree in human resources and business management, is a dog rescuer and has two really great kids, one of whom is about to make her a grandma for the first time. She’s kind hearted and not otherwise stupid, but on this stuff, well, you can’t move her. Her mom has cancer, maybe that’s part of it, but she’s advising her mom to take all this crap that is questionable at best, maybe harmful at worst. Hopefully her mom isn’t paying that much attention to this nonsense.

She’s lost her damned mind. How someone who is otherwise fairly smart and self sufficient (she has a good job, so does her husband) can fall for this crap is beyond me.

I know another person, really kind and generous, who is a member of at least a dozen Facebook groups devoted to flat earth and alien conspiracies. It freaks me out. You don’t believe in science but you use a car, a computer, a cell phone and a hundred other things based on sciences of all kinds and never question those things. Is there a sane place to live anymore? Or at least a smart place?

172
Dave In Austin  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:02:23am
173
PhillyPretzel  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:04:23am

re: #171 A Mom Anon

That is why I come here. It is the voice of reason on the internet.

174
Dave In Austin  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:06:01am
175
PhillyPretzel  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:07:12am

re: #174 Dave In Austin

Exactly.

176
A Mom Anon  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:21:22am

Well, the morning is slipping away and the dog needs walking, laundry needs washing and about 11ty thousand other things. Have a great day lizards. I keep trying to get here more often, but life is a bit of a wreck these days, lots of cleanup to do. I miss it when I can’t get here.

177
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:33:36am

re: #120 ausador

I just can’t even…

[Embedded content]

MICHIGAN, it’s just like Florida, but with shitty weather!

178
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:34:55am

Last night some “voluntaryist” filled up my Twitter timeline with a fuck ton of lame memes.

It’s blocked and muted. No point in even replying to any of this shit.

179
jaunte  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:40:23am
180
unproven innocence  Jan 31, 2016 • 6:53:12am

Most people think they understand soap bubbles —that they are nearly uniform spheres (or sections of a sphere) until they pop suddenly, and catastrophically. That is false, according to my observations. I have seen what looks like circular holes which appear very small, and slowly grow, and sometimes merge. I’ve seen these “holes” grow to larger than 1cm, and persist for over 1min before the bubble eventually bursts.

Unless examined carefully, one may think that these “holes” reflect no light. That is also false. They do reflect some visible light, but the fraction is roughly 1 part in 10000 or so, rather than the few percent normally reflected from a water or glass surface.

I arrived at that estimate by comparing the apparent brightness of sunlight reflected from one of these “holes” viewed with my unaided eye vs sunlight reflected off a normal bubble surface, but viewed thru a #8 welders’ glass.

If you wish to repeat my experiment, you will require a draft-free location. Simply wiping a soapy hand over the top of a drinking glass or cup will make a slightly convex but mostly horizontal bubble surface. You may prefer a black cup.

181
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:06:01am
182
jaunte  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:08:55am

re: #181 ausador

Trump and Warren Buffett both had $40 million in 1974; Buffet turned his into $67 billion, and even poor half competent Trump managed to get to $2.9 billion. He could have made it $6 billion in an index account, but he wanted to play.

183
Billy Batts  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:12:25am

Cruz just said on MTP that as a senator he has treated everyone fairly and with respect. Oh, and a lot of REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN too.

184
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:12:43am

re: #180 unproven innocence

Hmm…
Styx - Too Much Time On My Hands

J/K ///

185
jaunte  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:14:10am
186
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:14:24am

re: #151 100th Monkey

Snail caught the express bus to work.

187
Billy Batts  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:14:55am

re: #171 A Mom Anon

My uncle believes that Sandy Hook never happened and that it was a setup by Obama to take away all the guns. How in the world did he come up with this insane shit? Why, he saw it on the internet, of course.

188
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:15:09am

re: #183 Billy Batts

Cruz just said on MTP that as a senator he has treated everyone fairly and with respect. Oh, and a lot of REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN too.

Reagan?

189
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:15:51am

re: #181 ausador

[Embedded content]

Look at Donald, with just a million dollar loan from his Dad, look at all he’s accomplished.

190
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:19:44am
191
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:21:14am

re: #154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I appreciate a healthy skepticism and distrust of authority but it does not mean that your layman ignorance is as good as someone else’s expert knowledge.

And it seems that we are no longer teaching people what science is and how it works. Means that too many people confuse and conflate it with religion and superstition.

What really bothers me is a so-called science writer completely effing up how science works. Sure, there is creativity and innovation in science, but you can’t just dream up fanciful ideas about the universe works and call it science.

And she supposedly took science classes at university. Seems like they did not really explain to her what science is and how it works, or if they did, she missed that lecture.

I may blog a response to her article. She needs a good talking to.

192
Billy Batts  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:22:47am

Trump supporter: “I support Trump because our country was founded on the bible.”

193
b.d.  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:26:17am

re: #192 Billy Batts

Trump supporter: “I support Trump because our country was founded on the bible.”

I just saw that. I need to quit giving the average Joe the benefit of the doubt on not being a complete idiot.

194
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:26:21am

re: #192 Billy Batts

Trump supporter: “I support Trump because our country was founded on the bible.”

Hahahha.

195
unproven innocence  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:26:34am

re: #184 ausador

Hmm…
[Embedded content]

J/K ///

Some may misspend it, but no one has too much time. :)

196
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:26:44am

re: #193 b.d.

I just saw that. I need to quit giving the average Joe the benefit of the doubt on not being a complete idiot.

YEah my laughter aside that makes just wonder WTF is wrong with people.

197
Billy Batts  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:27:58am

And Trump has never read one page of the bible in his life. People are so fucking stupid.

198
b.d.  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:28:42am

re: #197 Billy Batts

And Trump has never read one page of the bible in his life. People are so fucking stupid.

He read the Bible but he was looking for loopholes.

199
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:29:25am

I have to say I always hated hearing people say tehy voted for Bush over Gore or Kerry because he (Bush) was a good Christian man. What and Gore and Kerry are bad, Satanists?

200
b.d.  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:33:27am

re: #199 HappyWarrior

I have to say I always hated hearing people say tehy voted for Bush over Gore or Kerry because he (Bush) was a good Christian man. What and Gore and Kerry are bad, Satanists?

Or that they would rather have a beer with Bush.

First of all, even if Bush still drank he would never have a beer with you and secondly you are not electing a running buddy you are electing a POTUS.

I hate people.

201
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:33:30am

re: #193 b.d.

I just saw that. I need to quit giving the average Joe the benefit of the doubt on not being a complete idiot.

Carlin: ‘Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.’

202
Billy Batts  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:33:43am

re: #198 b.d.

He read the Bible but he was looking for loopholes.

He was looking for bankruptcy protection.

203
Timothy Watson  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:34:38am

re: #199 HappyWarrior

I have to say I always hated hearing people say tehy voted for Bush over Gore or Kerry because he (Bush) was a good Christian man. What and Gore and Kerry are bad, Satanists?

Of course, they’re Democrats, and Kerry was from Taxachusetts.

204
Timothy Watson  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:35:25am

re: #202 Billy Batts

He was looking for bankruptcy protection.

No, he was intentionally running his businesses into the ground so he could help all his creditors get in heaven!

205
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:36:37am

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Look at Donald, with just a million dollar loan from his Dad, look at all he’s accomplished.

He also inherited the vast majority of his father’s estate. Not just cash, a lot of valuable real estate.

206
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:38:54am

re: #200 b.d.

Or that they would rather have a beer with Bush.

First of all, even if Bush still drank he would never have a beer with you and secondly you are not electing a running buddy you are electing a POTUS.

I hate people.

YEah I hated that too.

207
Great White Snark  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:40:20am

re: #1 jaunte

What’s underneath?

GOP HQ.

Good morning all.

208
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:41:52am

re: #205 ausador

He also inherited the vast majority of his father’s estate. Not just cash, a lot of valuable real estate.

Yep.

209
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:43:34am

I’ve always hated the religious right’s judgemental bullcrap disguised as Christian love. Sorry, you don’t love someone if you’re damning them to hell because you don’t approve of their religion or there lack of or their sexuality. The religious right quite honestly is one of the most nasty elements of American politics and it’s even more disgusting that they use the name of family to rationalize and push for state sanctioned homophobia.

210
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:44:22am

I’ve been away doing touristy things today, so maybe someone has already posted this OPB profile of David Fry.

opb.org

Fry’s got some serious psychological issues, maybe what is called “oppositional behavior disorder.” I worry he may turn out to be another casualty in this stand off.

“He’s had his problems, some of which he’s brought on himself,” his paternal grandfather, William Fry, told OPB. “He gets pulled over for busted taillights, and instead of just rolling down his window and handing over his insurance, he screams at the officer, ‘What the [expletive] do you want?’ And right there, a regular thing turns into him in handcuffs.”

Fry’s anger, often directed at authority, resulted in a strained relationship with his own father, William “Bill” Fry Jr. A former Marine, Bill Fry told OPB he had a “tough time” talking to his son about a host of subjects — most notably, politics.

211
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:51:15am

re: #44 KGxvi

I try for this. It’s why my favourite book is The Doubter’s Companion.

212
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:58:19am

re: #210 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

I’ve been away doing touristy things today, so maybe someone has already posted this OPB profile of David Fry.

opb.org

Fry’s got some serious psychological issues, maybe what is called “oppositional behavior disorder.” I worry he may turn out to be another casualty in this stand off.

Watching the comment flow on his (momentarily quiet) YT channel shows that he has become a litmus test for the militant nutjobs. There are lots of dynamics about disowning the Fort Tarp Four, how they impact the 2 Bundy camps, and their place in the RWNJ pantheon. They, especially Fry, are getting a bit of a romantic following while the usual YT morons are calling for a Tarantino ending.

Yes—I read the comments.

213
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 7:59:02am

re: #82 bratwurst

Hmm. I see the word ‘Hetzer’ and I immediately think of this thing.

214
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:00:53am
215
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:01:38am

re: #100 teleskiguy

Neil deGrasse Tyson fucking nailed it on Larry Wilmore’s show.

The beginning of the end of our informed democracy. Chilling thought.

And worst (most ironic?) of all is that it was killed by a technology that was meant to spread information around at a pace impossible a generation ago.

216
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:05:40am

re: #215 Romantic Heretic

And worst (most ironic?) of all is that it was killed by a technology that was meant to spread information around at a pace impossible a generation ago.

Misinformation Age.

217
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:11:33am

re: #169 WhatEVs

They spelled Finicum’s name wrong.

Well, it’s a multisyllabic word. You know how much trouble those poor people have with any word bigger than two syllables. semi/

218
Belafon  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:12:36am

re: #215 Romantic Heretic

And worst (most ironic?) of all is that it was killed by a technology that was meant to spread information around at a pace impossible a generation ago.

The internet has made it less painful to be an idiot at the same time it made it less painful to learn something. Ultimately, it comes down to the same issues of people being unwilling to learn. We can blame flat earther, anti-vaxer, and other things on not being taught the scientific method, but most pre-internet people didn’t get it either. The ones who got it went into science.

It does give me the spark of an idea for a school lesson on the scientific method. I’ll have to think through it, but it should involve a device that gives a small shock, no stronger than the shock you get from carpet. Making it stop should involve the reasoning involved in the scientific method.

219
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:17:58am
220
A Cranky One  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:22:57am

Not usually tempted to change careers, but once and a while an opportunity presents itself:

The perfect job for those of us who are kids at heart

221
nines09  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:27:28am

re: #219 ausador

Sounds like daddy ought to pony up some dough. It’s simple. Mittens told me so. Trump swears by it. Stand on your own. Do things for yourself. And if your family is not well off? All your fault.

222
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:27:49am

re: #98 William Lewis

I’m reminded of the 2 Urban Guerrillas albums: Darwin’s Theory of Pelvic Revolution & Attack of the Pink Heat Seeking Moisture Missiles :)

I never thought I’d see a Urban Guerrillas reference on LGF.

223
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:34:03am
224
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:35:44am

re: #218 Belafon

The internet has made it less painful to be an idiot at the same time it made it less painful to learn something. Ultimately, it comes down to the same issues of people being unwilling to learn. We can blame flat earther, anti-vaxer, and other things on not being taught the scientific method, but most pre-internet people didn’t get it either. The ones who got it went into science.

It does give me the spark of an idea for a school lesson on the scientific method. I’ll have to think through it, but it should involve a device that gives a small shock, no stronger than the shock you get from carpet. Making it stop should involve the reasoning involved in the scientific method.

You can teach Shop at Guantanamo.

225
Joe Bacon  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:36:40am
226
scottslemmons  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:38:15am

re: #223 ausador

[Embedded content]

That’s some authentic frontier gibberish right there. It’s not a parody site, is it?

227
ObserverArt  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:38:51am

Jesus Freakin’ Christ on a broken pogo stick!

After reading through this thread (and it’s featured topic comments), watching the local NBC political show and then a bit of Meet Todd’s Pathos I am just stunned.

Usually election seasons bring out the stupid. This time it not only has brought it out, many are rolling around in it, tossing it in the air in celebration and serving it as the best thing ever to consume.

Is this what is like to watch a great nation and society fall apart? I need to know as I don’t have a lot of experience.

All I know is this is just not right. Trump. Cruz. Rand. Flat earth, Anti-vax. Patriots taking lands from the people. Media avoiding their jobs. What the Fuckity Fuck???

228
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:40:16am

re: #227 ObserverArt

I don’t think we’re seeing the whole picture.

229
Joe Bacon  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:42:07am

re: #227 ObserverArt

Jesus Freakin’ Christ on a broken pogo stick!

After reading through this thread (and it’s featured topic comments), watching the local NBC political show and then a bit of Meet Todd’s Pathos I am just stunned.

Usually election seasons bring out the stupid. This time it not only has brought it out, many are rolling around in it, tossing it in the air in celebration and serving it as the best thing ever to consume.

Is this what is like to watch a great nation and society fall apart? I need to know as I don’t have a lot of experience.

All I know is this is just not right. Trump. Cruz. Rand. Flat earth, Anti-vax. Patriots taking lands from the people. Media avoiding their jobs. What the Fuckity Fuck???

Honestly, I’ve been talking with coworkers who fled the Soviet Union before it collapsed. They’re telling me they have the exact same feeling that will happen here as well. The more I listen to them and see the talking assholes on TV, the more I get a sad feeling that the US isn’t going to get to 2026. The country is too divided and it’s going to break into a dozen pieces just like the USSR did…

230
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:44:59am

re: #229 Joe Bacon

Check your formatting—seems interwoven with Obsv’s statement.

231
Belafon  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:46:04am

re: #227 ObserverArt

In 2008 and 2012, we saw how Democrats would use the internet to rally voters. In 2016, we are seeing how Republicans will use the internet to rally voters/vigilantes.

232
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:47:08am

re: #226 scottslemmons

That’s some authentic frontier gibberish right there. It’s not a parody site, is it?

Nope, that is Cliven telling us exactly what he thinks, the man is certifiably nuts. :(

233
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:47:54am

re: #188 HappyWarrior

Reagan?

Reagan is not dead. He’s been unDead for a decade.

234
b_sharp  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:48:41am

re: #233 SoundGuy 2016

Reagan is not dead. He’s been unDead for a decade.

Zombies are the in thing.

235
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:49:56am

Zombies poll high among eligible voters.

236
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:53:31am

re: #232 ausador

Nope, that is Cliven telling us exactly what he thinks, the man is certifiably nuts. :(

But the few comments went about 7:1 against him. Some were pretty passionate.

237
Kent Dorfman  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:53:31am

re: #233 SoundGuy 2016

238
sagehen  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:56:36am

re: #229 Joe Bacon

Honestly, I’ve been talking with coworkers who fled the Soviet Union before it collapsed. They’re telling me they have the exact same feeling that will happen here as well. The more I listen to them and see the talking assholes on TV, the more I get a sad feeling that the US isn’t going to get to 2026. The country is too divided and it’s going to break into a dozen pieces just like the USSR did…

California’s going to be the best piece.

239
Joe Bacon  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:56:54am

re: #230 Decatur Deb

Deb, for some reason Safari screwed up. I got it fixed…

240
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:57:56am

Ol’ Cliven’s screed makes more sense if you see it as very flawed attempt to write a Sic et Non dialogue. Big chunks of it are supposed to be the Bad Guys talking. (Much frontier gibberish, like Palin’s, makes more sense if you can hear it as conversation in your head, rather than read it. These people are more used to talking than writing.)

241
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 8:59:11am

re: #238 sagehen

California’s going to be the best piece.

We’ll still be number one in the SEC, which is probably what we’ll call our country.

242
stpaulbear  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:03:06am

re: #222 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

I never thought I’d see a Urban Guerrillas reference on LGF.

Last night there was some conversation about Minneapolis bands from the 80’s. Urban Guerrillas came up.

243
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:06:41am

The Revolution has been cancelled due to water polo…

244
ObserverArt  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:07:40am

re: #228 Decatur Deb

I don’t think we’re seeing the whole picture.

Oh I agree. But the picture we are seeing may very well encourage more and more lazy thinking.

Let me ask it this way. Did you ever think that in 2016 you would see the ‘picture’ of people talking about a flat earth?

I didn’t. And if you say no you didn’t think you’d see anybody mention the possibility of a flat earth…to me you already admit the picture is changing. And it is not changing for the good. To me a signal of the end of progress.

Of course, I also didn’t think we would see what appears to be successful and reasonable people questioning vaccination medicine. THAT is what scares me. It shows with enough support by others you can believe in things that will kill you.

No progress in that. So, is the ‘picture’ showing we are at the end of liberal arts and progressive thinking?

People follow ‘pictures’. That was what Orwell was on about in 1984. Pictures (manipulated image) are not real, but they can be sold as real and used to control the reality. Put enough question into accepting accepted science and we have problems. And it is not paranoid thinking. We are seeing it.

Maybe we aren’t going to go all the way backwards, but this surely means you’ll need to reeducate on things that should already be taken as the facts. To me it is being stuck axle deep in the mud…we aren’t going anywhere.

What happens when progress is stopped? I don’t think I really want to find out. It’s bad enough now.

245
Alephnaught  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:07:53am

Final day of Celtic Connections, and the final day of the Danny Kyle Stage. This is the best of the best, so expect some quality stuff tonight. It’s happening live right now for the next couple of hours on Celtic Music FM livestream.

246
BeenHereAwhile  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:11:00am

re: #200 b.d.

Or that they would rather have a beer with Bush.

First of all, even if Bush still drank he would never have a beer with you and secondly you are not electing a running buddy you are electing a POTUS.

I hate people.

Have never met W Bush, but my impression of him is; he would be the first guy to make fun of or humiliate the person that didn’t “fit in.” This impression is based in part of having gone to school with self entitled folk like that. Was never subject to that, but observed others being so treated. It was a valuable life lesson.

His treatment of Colin Powell, who was late to the first cabinet meeting bolstered this impression.

YMMV

247
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:16:54am

re: #241 Decatur Deb

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

248
ObserverArt  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:17:13am

re: #241 Decatur Deb

We’ll still be number one in the SEC, which is probably what we’ll call our country.

Hmmm. So I am B1G country then.

Going to a buddy’s here in few minute to watch Ohier State take on Mary’sland in a B1G sportsball game.

Yes, I watch sportsball…just like I have some of the (used to be great, but not so much anymore) Daytona 24 Hour autor ace on. It keeps me away from the shit that is increasingly driving me crazy. I don’t need more crazy…I need less…so sports.

249
Kent Dorfman  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:19:49am

Big Country - In A Big Country

250
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:21:42am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

I’d rather be invaded by China.

251
Eric The Fruit Bat  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:23:07am

re: #250 SoundGuy 2016

Yeah-it’s rather dystopic.

252
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:25:07am

re: #242 stpaulbear

ohhhhh… damn, I missed it. I grew up on the Minneapolis/St. Paul scene of the ’80s.

Baby Astronauts-Into/I Hate This Song

253
makeitstop  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:25:24am

re: #198 b.d.

He had his lawyers read the Bible but he was looking for loopholes.

FTFY

254
Dr Lizardo  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:26:14am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

[Embedded content]

I thought I’d seen that in Ghost In The Shell. Your link confirmed it. Have an upding.

255
William Lewis  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:29:08am

re: #222 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

I never thought I’d see a Urban Guerrillas reference on LGF.

My favorite unknown band. Those guys, Husker Du & the ‘mats… Those were the days :)

256
CriticalDragon1177  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:33:49am

Charles Johnson,

Lizzie Wade is joke, and she ought to be ashamed of herself for writing this garbage

257
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:35:40am
258
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:39:43am
One of the most important questions of our time
259
stpaulbear  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:44:20am

re: #258 SoundGuy 2016

Bernie sounds like the guy you hate running into at the record store.

260
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:44:25am

re: #255 William Lewis

Baby Astronauts, the Blue Hippos, Otto’s Chemical Lounge all blew my young mind… add the Tar Babies from Madison along w/ the Mats & Husker Du, sprinkle some early Soul Asylum in there, and oh yeah.

I think it’s going to be a songs from my youth painting day today.

261
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:44:35am

re: #258 SoundGuy 2016

[Embedded content]

Hahahha.

262
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:44:57am

re: #259 stpaulbear

Bernie sounds like the guy you hate running into at the record store.

You mean a hipster.

263
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:45:09am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

Embedded Image

264
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:46:24am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

Embedded Image

The cluster of light-blue states from Michigan to the Northeast could join Canada.

265
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:47:04am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

Embedded Image

I don’t see Virginia going back to the GOP.

266
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:47:06am

Investigate what?
Wideman’s brilliant defense is that “it was an accident, I didn’t see him.”

267
Dark_Falcon  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:47:43am

re: #82 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

Actually, a correct translation of the cover is:

Insanity: America’s Rabble-Rouser Donald Trump

The problem is that European media coverage like that tends to strengthen the American politician who it targets rather than weaken him or her. Such coverage normally causes more Americans to line up behind the person attacked as a way of flipping Europe the bird.

Der Spiegel going after Donald Trump will give Trump another half-percentage point of support, I predict.

268
Dark_Falcon  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:50:20am

re: #263 The Vicious Babushka

And I could mark the Red states “America” and then mark the blue states “Socialist EU Wannbee Jihadi Coddelers”. Lets not play this game of insults, please.

269
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:51:31am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

And I could mark the Red states “America” and then mark the blue states “Socialist EU Wannbee Jihadi Coddelers”. Lets not play this game of insults, please.

#tcot already made that meme.

270
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:51:56am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

And I could mark the Red states “America” and then mark the blue states “Socialist EU Wannbee Jihadi Coddelers”. Lets not play this game of insults, please.

Ironic since Obama’s done more against Jihadis than any Republican president if you want ot play that game. Besides, it’s in jest and this coming from a resident of hypothetical Dumbfuckistan.

271
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:52:32am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

eh, just try an aspirin between your knees and call it a day? Why so PC? /

272
Pawn of the Oppressor  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:53:20am

re: #266 ausador

Investigate what?
Widemans’s brilliant defense is that “it was an accident, I didn’t see him.”

[Embedded content]

Holy crap. I read his “slipped and fell” defense in the news last week. Did he forget people have cameras everywhere now??

273
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:54:52am

re: #225 Joe Bacon

[Embedded content]

He will just do what he does with everything else. Pay others for the “rights” to plaster his name on crap. Trumpcare.

274
stpaulbear  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:55:43am

re: #267 Dark_Falcon

Such coverage normally causes more stupid Americans to line up behind the person attacked as a way of flipping Europe the bird.

Needed a tweak.

275
Emoprog Refugee  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:57:00am

Man, I wish Cosmos, or a show like it were still on the air and that there were a vehicle for it to be broadcast for free into all American, tv set owning homes as it was for me when I was growing up in the seventies.
Here is Carl Sagan (and yes, I remember when this was originally broadcast on PBS) explaining Eratosthenes’ (dude died in 149 bc, people, this is not something new) calculations for the curvature of the earth.
Video

Hint for those who don’t wanna watch Carl Sagan:
Lengths of shadows cast in one location will be the same as those for another, far away location iff the earth is flat.
Lengths of shadows cast in one location will be different from those in another, far away location iff the earth is curved.
Spoiler: they’re different, therefore, curved earth.
Even better: if you know the distance between the two locations, and can measure the difference in shadow lengths, you can calculate the degree of curvature, and from that, extrapolate the circumference of the object you’re measuring.
Eratothenes correctly calculated the circumference of the earth using sticks, eyes, feet and brains over 2000 years ago.

That first comment claiming someone had used “math” and “geometry” to determine that the earth is flat — that idiot needs to retake math and geometry.

As a sad, little post script, I’d like to add that the Utah legislature, in its infinite wisdom, decided to eliminate geometry from the public school curriculum a few years back. My middle kid’s class was the last to have it, and my youngest’s class will be among the first to have had its teaching forbidden. This is just going to get worse.

276
HappyWarrior  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:57:24am

re: #274 stpaulbear

Needed a tweak.

I also didn’t see Romney get that big of a boost when Boris Johnson told him in effect that he didn’t know waht the fuck he was talking about in regards to London’s Olympics. Really, the Europeans aren’t always right but sometimes it’s spot on and Der Spiegel is right on ehre.

277
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:58:39am

re: #272 Pawn of the Oppressor

Holy crap. I read his “slipped and fell” defense in the news last week. Did he forget people have cameras everywhere now??

That should be good for a 30 game suspension at the minimum. You can’t allow players to start thinking they can blindside officials without severe penalties.

278
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 9:59:19am

re: #244 ObserverArt

Oh I agree. But the picture we are seeing may very well encourage more and more lazy thinking.

Let me ask it this way. Did you ever think that in 2016 you would see the ‘picture’ of people talking about a flat earth?

I didn’t. And if you say no you didn’t think you’d see anybody mention the possibility of a flat earth…to me you already admit the picture is changing. And it is not changing for the good. To me a signal of the end of progress.

Of course, I also didn’t think we would see what appears to be successful and reasonable people questioning vaccination medicine. THAT is what scares me. It shows with enough support by others you can believe in things that will kill you.

No progress in that. So, is the ‘picture’ showing we are at the end of liberal arts and progressive thinking?

People follow ‘pictures’. That was what Orwell was on about in 1984. Pictures (manipulated image) are not real, but they can be sold as real and used to control the reality. Put enough question into accepting accepted science and we have problems. And it is not paranoid thinking. We are seeing it.

Maybe we aren’t going to go all the way backwards, but this surely means you’ll need to reeducate on things that should already be taken as the facts. To me it is being stuck axle deep in the mud…we aren’t going anywhere.

What happens when progress is stopped? I don’t think I really want to find out. It’s bad enough now.

Sorry for the delay, been out re-skinning the growhouse.

You have to remember how far we’ve come. Neither of Wife’s parents finished high school. One didn’t finish 8th grade. All her kids have BA/MS except the one who quit in senior year because he couldn’t turn down the IT money.

The flat-earthers aren’t stupid, they’re working out some kind of mental problem. These problems were solved 3000 years ago. Dante knew more about astronomy than most Americans have been taught.

279
Decatur Deb  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:02:41am

re: #247 Eric The Fruit Bat

Here’s an alternate take on how things could wind up:

[Embedded content]

We should just get rid of the inefficient state structure and re-align ourselves along the NCAA conferences.

280
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:06:19am

Uncanny…

281
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:06:35am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

And I could mark the Red states “America” and then mark the blue states “Socialist EU Wannbee Jihadi Coddelers”. Lets not play this game of insults, please.

Everyone clap if you believe in the Magical Balance Fairy!!!

Christ, Dark - your party and its adherents are descending into madness, openly supporting a guy who’s courting them with overtly racist, fascistic appeals. His support in YOUR PARTY keeps GROWING, the more outrageous he gets. He lies constantly with no care for the truth, and it keeps getting him more and more support. He will, in all likelihood get the nomination.

At some point, you really need to look at your party with your ‘Go Team!’ glasses off and decide whether you believe the shit that your party stands for - which is now what Trump stands for.

282
Dark_Falcon  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:07:14am

re: #271 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

I can’t hold anything between my knees for long right now because of pain in my left leg. :(

283
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:08:00am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

I can’t hold anything between my knees for long right now because of pain in my left leg. :(

Sciatica?

284
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:08:11am

re: #228 Decatur Deb

I don’t think we’re seeing the whole picture.

Like the rivers of bad feeling goo under NYC in Ghostbusters 2 I expect there are large rivers of $ underneath all this.

285
Alephnaught  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:08:14am

re: #245 Alephnaught

Currently on the Danny Kyle Stage is a band called Quick with beautiful CSNY harmonies. They’re on their last song ATM.

286
Dark_Falcon  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:10:16am

re: #281 Blind Frog Belly White

Two wrongs don’t make a right and Trump’s bad behavior is not going to be stopped by posting collective insults. If anything, they bind Trump’s followers more closely to him. What is needed is ways to pull those people away from Donald Trump but I’m not sure that’s possible. People are just plain too pissed off, and Trump will win if they cannot be assuaged.

287
GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:10:36am

re: #277 ausador

That should be good for a 30 game suspension at the minimum. You can’t allow players to start thinking they can blindside officials without severe penalties.

I’d go even further. No more pro hockey for him. Ever. Shit like that can’t be tolerated. Period.

288
Dark_Falcon  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:11:02am

re: #283 Blind Frog Belly White

Sciatica?

It’s muscular, so no. I’m seeing my doctor tomorrow and I’ll get his read on it then.

289
calochortus  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:11:05am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

I can’t hold anything between my knees for long right now because of pain in my left leg. :(

And that’s a sympathy upding, not updinging your pain. :)
Hope it improves soon.

290
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:12:17am

re: #264 The Vicious Babushka

The cluster of light-blue states from Michigan to the Northeast could join Canada.

More like take over Canada since those states would massively outnumber Canada in population and probably industry as well.

291
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:16:19am

Returning to the original topic, the quote from Wade’s article that Charles put up:

B.o.B’s Twitter crusade illuminates the best qualities of outsider physics: its skepticism, its curiosity, and its fierce desire to make sense of a confusing world in a rigorous way. These same values lie at the heart of mainstream science, too. They are what make science special. They are what make science science.

reminded me of something I read once in the Ithaca Journal, back in 1981. It was a review of the universally-panned Bo Derek “Tarzan” movie. It endeavored to be a favorable review, but it read like the reviewer had lost a bet, and as a result had to write a favorable review of a truly appallingly bad movie. I remember bits like “Yes, the slow motion action sequences really don’t work, but maybe that’s the directors statement that violence itself doesn’t work!”

That’s what that sentence sounds like, as if Wade for some reason had to write something nice about morons denying the simplest truths.

292
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:17:28am

Oh, and I bypassed the morning political TV in order to take a walk along the river, take a few photos, and then come home and fix a cup of freshly ground coffee. Sitting back and catching up on comments while listening to old prog rock (pre-1980 Supertramp and Genesis.)

This is resting up for cooking afternoon. Pork tenderloin*, roast veges (squash, parsnip, carrots) and a pie. Which is essentially meals for most of the rest of the week.

* - Garlic and Fennel marinade. I pick these up directly from Wegman’s. Not as much control on salt content, but convenient and I get to pick from a variety of marinade types.

293
darthstar  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:18:02am
294
darthstar  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:18:28am

My offending tweet:

295
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:19:26am

re: #286 Dark_Falcon

Two wrongs don’t make a right and Trump’s bad behavior is not going to be stopped by posting collective insults. If anything, they bind Trump’s followers more closely to him. What is needed is ways to pull those people away from Donald Trump but I’m not sure that’s possible. People are just plain too pissed off, and Trump will win if they cannot be assuaged.

They cannot be assuaged, Dark, because they don’t want America. They don’t want the hard work and uncertainty of self-governance. They don’t want to have to tolerate the different, they don’t want to think through difficult problems, they don’t want to weigh evidence and find the truth, they want a strong man who will punish all the people they hate and make everything better. They can’t be assuaged. They can only be defeated.

296
Barefoot Grin  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:22:30am

re: #255 William Lewis

My favorite unknown band. Those guys, Husker Du & the ‘mats… Those were the days :)

Was Walt Mink Minnesota? They rocked, too.

297
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:24:21am

re: #295 Blind Frog Belly White

They cannot be assuaged, Dark, because they don’t want America. They don’t want the hard work and uncertainty of self-governance. They don’t want to have to tolerate the different, they don’t want to think through difficult problems, they don’t want to weigh evidence and find the truth, they want a strong man who will punish all the people they hate and make everything better. They can’t be assuaged. They can only be defeated.

Following the Ghostbusters 2 Meme —

Trump the Carpathian
298
blueraven  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:25:55am

re: #294 darthstar

My offending tweet:

[Embedded content]

Bernie is endorsing the book by Bill Press with the title: “Buyer’s Remorse: How Obama let Progressives Down.”

Bernie suggested a primary challenge for Obama for 2012.

He has been pretty critical of Obama. That is just a fact.

299
Alephnaught  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:27:23am

re: #285 Alephnaught

Current act playing on the Danny Kyle Stage now is rather good.

300
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:27:34am

re: #183 Billy Batts

Cruz just said on MTP that as a senator he has treated everyone fairly and with respect. Oh, and a lot of REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN REAGAN too.

That is why all the other senators hate his guts. He even stabbed his only friend, Mike Lee, in the back, denouncing a bill Lee was sponsoring with lies.

301
Joe Bacon  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:28:58am

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

302
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:29:04am

re: #294 darthstar

Bernie does himself no favors by going after Obama.

303
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:29:30am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Happy Birthday!

304
Stanley Sea  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:30:20am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

Happy birthday. Sounds like you will enjoy it!

305
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:30:23am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

I was going to say Happy Birthday, but do we really want to fill up a LGF thread with a bunch of those like it was a Facebook timeline?

306
BeachDem  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:31:46am

re: #286 Dark_Falcon

Two wrongs don’t make a right and Trump’s bad behavior is not going to be stopped by posting collective insults. If anything, they bind Trump’s followers more closely to him. What is needed is ways to pull those people away from Donald Trump but I’m not sure that’s possible. People are just plain too pissed off, and Trump will win if they cannot be assuaged.

What is it that they’re so pissed off about? How would they be “assuaged?” And how does Trump do that?

Honestly not snarking—really trying to get the high dudgeon of the right wing.

307
WhatEVs  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:33:04am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

Happy birthday!!

308
Dr Lizardo  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:33:16am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

Happy Birthday, and enjoy the dinner. Sounds good.

309
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:39:38am

Well Joe, your Birthday broke the thread. Way to go. ;)

310
blueraven  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:39:56am

re: #281 Blind Frog Belly White

Everyone clap if you believe in the Magical Balance Fairy!!!

Christ, Dark - your party and its adherents are descending into madness, openly supporting a guy who’s courting them with overtly racist, fascistic appeals. His support in YOUR PARTY keeps GROWING, the more outrageous he gets. He lies constantly with no care for the truth, and it keeps getting him more and more support. He will, in all likelihood get the nomination.

At some point, you really need to look at your party with your ‘Go Team!’ glasses off and decide whether you believe the shit that your party stands for - which is now what Trump stands for.

While I agree with you about the Magical Balance part…What value is there in defining half of the country as Dumbfuckistan? I live in the red state of TX. There are plenty of people here fighting for the soul of our state. I don’t like to be put in that dumbfuck box.

I suspect there are other Lizards in red states that don’t like it much either. It is tiresome. So in that respect, D_F makes a valid point.

311
Single-handed sailor  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:41:33am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

Did you see the fireworks last night? I heard them here, 22 miles away on the back side of the Berkeley Hills (which is freaking strange). 15,000 devices in 12 minutes. It sounded like San Francisco was being carpet-bombed.

312
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:42:06am

How is life this afternoon?

313
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:42:25am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Well, It’s my birthday today. I’m going to ignore the televised bullshit and just spend my last day here in WINDY San Francisco before I go home tomorrow. Going to do a bit of sightseeing then have dinner at the House of Prime Rib.

Tomorrow morning, check out of the hotel at 6 to get to the Oakland Amtrak Station to take the Coast Starlight back to Los Angeles.

HAPPY HAPPY!

314
allegro  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:43:41am

re: #312 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

How is life this afternoon?

Dreaming of prime rib and scenic train trips.

315
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:44:59am

re: #311 Single-handed sailor

Did you see the fireworks last night? I heard them here, 22 miles away on the back side of the Berkeley Hills (which is freaking strange). 15,000 devices in 12 minutes. It sounded like San Francisco was being carpet-bombed.

That area is sorta home. I grew up at the 580/680. Back when men were men and women weren’t particular.

316
Stanley Sea  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:47:34am

re: #314 allegro

Dreaming of prime rib and scenic train trips.

I checked the menu. Of course.

317
WhatEVs  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:48:06am
318
b_sharp  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:49:36am

re: #316 Stanley Sea

I checked the menu. Of course.

So you’re back to the old naked Stanley Sea.

319
Stanley Sea  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:50:52am

re: #318 b_sharp

So you’re back to the old naked Stanley Sea.

Ya, tried to be funny haha

320
SoundGuy 2016  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:51:45am

The Bay Area/East Bay is home. But Hawaii is where I’ll die.

321
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 10:55:09am

re: #319 Stanley Sea

Ya, tried to be funny haha

Gull on the Wing

(From this morning’s walk up by the Schuylkill River Dam.)

322
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:01:52am

re: #229 Joe Bacon

I saw this article about a month ago, how America (and Canada plus some of Mexico) are really 11 nations rather than 2 (and a bit).

It’s stuck in my head ever since.

323
darthstar  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:02:03am
324
darthstar  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:04:55am

re: #298 blueraven

Bernie is endorsing the book by Bill Press with the title: “Buyer’s Remorse: How Obama let Progressives Down.”

Bernie suggested a primary challenge for Obama for 2012.

He has been pretty critical of Obama. That is just a fact.

So the fuck what? People have been bitching about Obama not being progressive enough for seven years. He was never a progressive - he has always been a moderate. Hell, the guy’s black. Did anyone think he’d be able to push a progressive agenda on top of that?

As for the book, I think what Sanders is saying is on point - the next president has to push the progressive platform more than Obama did. Or we’ll be pushed back further to the right.

At the end of the day, Sanders is one of Obama’s greatest allies in the Senate - so what if he criticized him a few times. Obama can take it. He understands politics.

325
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:06:28am

re: #297 Feline Fearless Leader

Stolen…

326
Mattand  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:07:57am

re: #36 Sic semper evello dildos tyrannis

re: #92 Eric The Fruit Bat

Seriously. Fuck Bill Maher. The guy is becoming a bigger danger to public health than Jenny McCarthy ever was. There was an Australian HIV denialist who died from AIDS a few years back. Cut down by the disease she insisted wasn’t real.

I can easily see Maher contracting something like cancer and then speeding up the process by trying to treat it with some idiotic fairy dust alt med foolishness.

327
makeitstop  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:07:59am

re: #277 ausador

That should be good for a 30 game suspension at the minimum. You can’t allow players to start thinking they can blindside officials without severe penalties.

I heard them talking about that on the radio the other day, and they made it sound like there was valid room for debate as to whether it was intentional or not.

Now that I’ve seen it, they must have been just jawing to fill air time. That’s as blatant a hit on an official as I’ve seen in any sport. I say he should be tossed for the reminder of the season.

328
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:09:28am

re: #310 blueraven

While I agree with you about the Magical Balance part…What value is there in defining half of the country as Dumbfuckistan? I live in the red state of TX. There are plenty of people here fighting for the soul of our state. I don’t like to be put in that dumbfuck box.

I suspect there are other Lizards in red states that don’t like it much either. It is tiresome. So in that respect, D_F makes a valid point.

I’m sympathetic to your wish not to have your home defined that way, but really, it’s the people who elect the representatives who end up defining the state. And most of those states are increasingly electing dumbfucks. And the dumbfucks who elect those dumbfucks are also supporting changing the laws to ensure that they can keep electing dumbfucks even after they are no longer a majority of the electorate.

I grew up in the most conservative county in Pennsylvania. We registered Democratic, supported Democrats, fought the good fight, but every two years, we sent Goodling back to Congress.

I used to think that Liberals and Conservatives wanted the same things - liberty, prosperity, equality, peace - but just saw different paths to them. a decade arguing with them on a hunting forum taught me differently. They don’t want liberty, they want freedom to do what THEY want to do, and to prevent others doing what they DON’T want them to do. Their idea of prosperity is for THEMSELVES to be doing well. They don’t want equality with Those People, they just want Those People to shut up about the lack of equality. And they don’t want peace, they just want other countries to be unable to threaten us.

It’s really time for us to stop pretending they really want the America the rest of us want.

329
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:09:50am

re: #324 darthstar

It’s not smart, especially considering how popular Obama is.

330
gwangung  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:10:39am

re: #324 darthstar

So the fuck what? People have been bitching about Obama not being progressive enough for seven years. He was never a progressive - he has always been a moderate. Hell, the guy’s black. Did anyone think he’d be able to push a progressive agenda on top of that?

As for the book, I think what Sanders is saying is on point - the next president has to push the progressive platform more than Obama did. Or we’ll be pushed back further to the right.

At the end of the day, Sanders is one of Obama’s greatest allies in the Senate - so what if he criticized him a few times. Obama can take it. He understands politics.

This is going to take some finesse, to tap that need for change, without trashing Obama—-that generally drives people back to the right, not further left.

331
blueraven  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:11:34am

re: #324 darthstar

So the fuck what? People have been bitching about Obama not being progressive enough for seven years. He was never a progressive - he has always been a moderate. Hell, the guy’s black. Did anyone think he’d be able to push a progressive agenda on top of that?

As for the book, I think what Sanders is saying is on point - the next president has to push the progressive platform more than Obama did. Or we’ll be pushed back further to the right.

At the end of the day, Sanders is one of Obama’s greatest allies in the Senate - so what if he criticized him a few times. Obama can take it. He understands politics.

I might quibble with the bolded part. Also, I believe it is the so called progressives who let Obama down. They did not help in 2010 and 2014 at all. Criticism is fine but actually calling for a primary challenge? Ummm…no. That is not an ally.

332
Dr Lizardo  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:11:54am

re: #326 Mattand

Seriously. Fuck Bill Maher. The guy is becoming a bigger danger to public health than Jenny McCarthy ever was. There was an Australian HIV denialist who died from AIDS a few years back. Cut down by the disease she insisted wasn’t real.

I can easily see Maher contracting something like cancer and then speeding up the process by trying to treat it with some idiotic fairy dust alt med foolishness.

Colloidal Silver!! FTW!!!

*headdesk*

333
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:13:05am
334
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:18:08am

re: #331 blueraven

Those are the “all or nothing” progressives and they’ll continue with “I won’t vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination.” It’s the irritating part of the left I want to punch in the face.

335
Great White Snark  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:20:46am

Been reading about the “US spying on Israel” What we did apparently was tap into their drone signals. Unless Israel was using a drone to spy on itself, we did no such thing really. We were spying on whatever the Israelis were spying. Anyone else remember the guy that tapped into our drone footage because it was sent in the clear?
Also not spying.

huffingtonpost.com

336
makeitstop  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:23:34am

re: #332 Dr Lizardo

Colloidal Silver!! FTW!!!

*headdesk*

Using colloidal silver as a medical remedy makes me blue…

337
jaunte  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:24:36am
338
Jenner7  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:24:46am

I wasn’t happy with Obama compromising all the time. I was so pissed at one point, I told him to fuck off. You’ll remember how angry I was during the protests in Ferguson and I didn’t like what Obama had to say about it. But you have to come back down to earth and realize we aren’t going to get everything we want. But look at what we got out of his two terms? So much more. Having a progressive in office isn’t going to get Universal health care or the big changes on Wall Street. You still need a Congress to work with.

339
retired cynic  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:25:22am

re: #205 ausador

He also inherited the vast majority of his father’s estate. Not just cash, a lot of valuable real estate.

It makes me wonder what the inherited value would be in today’s dollars. I know he would have done better in a good mutual fund, but how much has he actually grown it, in today’s dollars.

340
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:25:41am

So I have been seeing unverified reports for the last several hours that the FBI has cut cell phone/internet/landline to the refuge. Now looking like it is fact…

341
CuriousLurker  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:27:20am

FYI, in case no one else here has pointed it out: Citizens need to be reminded every day that the GOP is on the side of rich militant ranchers like the Bundys and will happily hand our beautiful, irreplaceable national parks to knuckle-dragging, welfare seeking wingnuts who feel that they’re entitled to it (and the rest of us aren’t):

342
Romantic Heretic  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:27:35am

re: #301 Joe Bacon

Happy Birthday.

343
WhatEVs  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:28:57am

Edit. Fake…and I fell for it.

344
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:29:15am
345
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:31:00am

re: #296 Barefoot Grin

Yep, and Babes in Toyland too.. If I recall? That was the late ’80s early 90s and there were a ton of people(music people) flocking to the twin cities to cash in. I guess it was like a test ground for what would eventually become Seattle & the 90s.

I believe one young Courtney Love latched on at one point or another too. Those days and the stories are a tad foggy.

346
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:31:41am
347
Feline Fearless Leader  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:31:49am

re: #325 ausador

Stolen…

[Embedded content]

Yes. (Oh, I did forget to credit that I found the image elsewhere. Mea Culpa.)

348
Stanley Sea  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:32:36am

re: #343 WhatEVs

[Embedded content]

fake news

349
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:33:14am

It’s Sunday, I’m doing the god thing on twitter. Hey, you can listen to god outside a church!

350
goddamnedfrank  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:35:20am
Sanders said that after a “brilliant campaign,” Obama made a mistake by expecting that he could easily negotiate with the other party.

“He thought he could walk into Capitol Hill and the Oval Office and sit down with John Boehner and Mitch McConnell and the Republicans and say, ‘I can’t get it all. You can’t get it all. Let’s work out something that’s reasonable,’ because he’s a reasonable guy. He’s a pretty rational guy,” Sanders said. “These guys never had any intention of doing [serious] negotiating and compromising. … I think it took the president too long to fully appreciate that.”

But Sanders didn’t have a firm answer for how he would more successfully broker deals, saying the only way things will actually get done with a divided Congress is if the general population stays engaged in the political process and demands it.

“I don’t have any illusion that I’m going to walk in, and I certainly hope it is not the case but if there is a Republican House and a Republican Senate, that I’m going to walk in there and say, ‘Hey guys, listen. I’d like you to work with me on raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour,’” he said. “It ain’t gonna happen, I have no illusion about that. The only way that I believe that change takes place … is that tens of millions of people are going to have to stand up and be involved in the political process the day after the election.”
Sanders disputed Axelrod’s analogy of Sanders’ strong liberal views to conservative Republicans like Texas Sen. Ted Cruz who say the GOP has been too compromising with the other side and should stand on its principles.

…

“What I said is that, if you are good at politics, and you have 70 [percent]-80 percent of the people behind you in issues like raising the minimum wage or rebuilding our infrastructure or family and medical leave. … You should win those fights and it’s not good enough to sit down with Boehner and say, ‘No, I can’t support’ — ‘Oh OK, guess we’re not going to do it.’”

I have to wonder what history Sanders is talking about here. 90% of Americans support universal background checks for guns sales, and the Republicans have never opposed any policy change more stubbornly.

Here’s my other beef with Sanders’ raw assertion that simply leading a large enough populist movement will make him a more effective President, he doesn’t appear to be doing much in the way of fundraising for down-ticket Democratic races. An effective President tries to expand their electoral coattails as much as possible and reportedly Bernie is not doing a whole lot of that. Part of the reason I think he isn’t doing that is that he isn’t a registered Democrat. A large number of his supporters don’t belong to the Democratic party either. He seems to be hoping he’ll be able to get elected and simply enact change from the top down, which is the opposite of how grassroots movements actually tend to get things done.

351
ausador  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:36:39am

re: #347 Feline Fearless Leader

Yes. (Oh, I did forget to credit that I found the image elsewhere. Mea Culpa.)

No sorry, I was saying I stole it from your post and used it for a tweet. Thanks for the image. :)

352
WhatEVs  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:38:26am

re: #348 Stanley Sea

fake news

GAH! I saw ABC News. Bad on me. Thanks.

353
sagehen  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:41:21am

re: #339 retired cynic

It makes me wonder what the inherited value would be in today’s dollars. I know he would have done better in a good mutual fund, but how much has he actually grown it, in today’s dollars.

Almost none.

The royalties from his books are actually his earnings, and whatever NBC paid for The Apprentice, plus licensing fees for putting his name on buildings that he didn’t build and doesn’t manage. Also some golf courses.

But everything he’s built himself… the Plaza, the casinos, Trump Tower… the banks took those away from him.

354
CleverToad  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:46:35am

re: #341 CuriousLurker

FYI, in case no one else here has pointed it out: Citizens need to be reminded every day that the GOP is on the side of rich militant ranchers like the Bundys and will happily hand our beautiful, irreplaceable national parks to knuckle-dragging, welfare seeking wingnuts who feel that they’re entitled to it (and the rest of us aren’t):

[Embedded content]

I keep wondering how much of the militia movement in the western states is funded by the Kochs and the like-minded oligarchs, funneled of course through the usual dark money sources. The legislative land-grab attempts that are being coordinated through ALEC worry me even more than the freeloading ranchers.

355
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:46:40am

Trump is not a good businessman.
Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump’s four bankruptcies

I have to wonder how much he didn’t pay in taxes because of the smart business decision to declare BK.

Has he ever been in trouble with the IRS??

356
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:48:05am

re: #266 ausador

Little bit of context, not to excuse but so other folks can know.

He had been involved in a hit that resulted in his head going directly into the glass/boards about 30 seconds prior or so, and was coming off the ice from that. Some discussion of whether or not he had a concussion, as he doesn’t react once he got on the bench for quite some time, seeming rather out of it.

That the Flames trainers didn’t pull him to run the concussion protocol is shitty as hell and I think the organization should be fined for it.

There are some other angles where his footwork does seem to support his claim that he didn’t see the official until the last second. I was actually watching this game, and the announcers did not think it was deliberate at the time. (And I don’t watch the CGY feed because I can’t stand their announcers, so these were the announcers for the away team.)

Guy is a long-time veteran and has never pulled any shit like this before - a deliberate hit on the official would be extremely out of character. He is currently indefinitely suspended until an in-person hearing after the All-Star Break.

The rules are hitting an official with intent to injure is a minimum 20 game suspension; hitting without intent to injure is a minimum 10 game suspension.

357
retired cynic  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:49:21am

re: #295 Blind Frog Belly White

They cannot be assuaged, Dark, because they don’t want America. They don’t want the hard work and uncertainty of self-governance. They don’t want to have to tolerate the different, they don’t want to think through difficult problems, they don’t want to weigh evidence and find the truth, they want a strong man who will punish all the people they hate and make everything better. They can’t be assuaged. They can only be defeated.

Some, absolutely, but I sincerely hope not all. I’m too old to live through a civil war.

That is truly an oxymoron: war sure can’t be civil!

358
I Stand With Planned Parenthood  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:54:39am

re: #357 retired cynic

Some, absolutely, but I sincerely hope not all. I’m too old to live through a civil war.

That is truly an oxymoron: war sure can’t be civil!

Sadly, there are some (more than I want to believe) that want a civil war. I can only hope we can stall and let the idea go away with attrition.

I don’t think this will happen if we are not PRO-ACTIVE about civil rights and individual health.

We must address the generational health issues associated with PTSD & TBI.

We much get serious about science education/sex ed and reproductive rights.

Otherwise, we will continue to face hatred exacerbated to the point of civil war.

Being human, I suspect we will continue to complain about SSDD, without doing a thing about it.

359
retired cynic  Jan 31, 2016 • 11:56:11am

re: #324 darthstar

At least he is pushing from the left side!

360
retired cynic  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:04:22pm

re: #353 sagehen

That’s what I thought!!

361
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 31, 2016 • 12:21:49pm

re: #355 I Stand With Planned Parenthood

Trump is not a good businessman.
Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump’s four bankruptcies

I have to wonder how much he didn’t pay in taxes because of the smart business decision to declare BK.

Has he ever been in trouble with the IRS??

Carly said this:

“You know, there are a lot of us Americans who believe that we are going to have trouble someday paying back the interest on our debt because politicians have run up mountains of debt using other people’s money,” Fiorina said. “That is in fact precisely the way you ran your casinos. You ran up mountains of debt, as well as losses, using other people’s money, and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times.”

Carly took a $42 million bailout of OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY (specifically the 30,000 HP workers she laid off)


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