John Lewis: ‘I Never Saw’ Sanders at Civil Rights Events

That’s gonna leave a mark
Politics • Views: 40,601

This is quite a blow to Bernie Sanders’ civil rights credibility, as Rep. John Lewis says he “never saw” Sanders at civil rights events in the 1960s.

Sanders has frequently talked up his history as an activist while he was at the University of Chicago in the 1960s and touted his work with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. But Lewis, a civil rights icon and leader of SNCC said he never saw Sanders at any events.

“I never saw him. I never met him,” Lewis said. “I was chair of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee for three years, from 1963 to 1966. I was involved with the sit-ins, the Freedom Rides, the March on Washington, the march from Selma to Montgomery and directed (the) voter education project for six years. But I met Hillary Clinton. I met President (Bill) Clinton.”

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388 comments
1
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:04:06pm

I commend Lewis for this, even though I know he’s gonna get buried under a metric shit ton of stupidity from fanatical Bernie supporters.

2
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:05:45pm

Their presence at or absence from rallies in the 60’s is going to have little influence on who I vote for…

3
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:05:45pm

I was about to write that I don’t think this is a fight the Democrats really want to have, but at the same time, Democrats have been claiming to be on the side of civil rights for 50 years. Maybe there should be a bit more substance to any claim.

4
lawhawk  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:08:24pm

Had Lewis said that about Hillary, it would be identified as the fatal flaw and all but end her campaign. Or the media would spin it as that.

Bernie? I don’t think it’ll do that much damage to his credibility. He’ll shake it off by saying he was at some events, and Lewis didn’t get to meet/greet everyone participating.

Thing is that both are miles better than any GOP candidate on civil rights - the difference between Hillary and Bernie are slight. Yet, both candidates’ partisans are treating this as impeachable offenses leading to sitting out if the other is the nominee.

The problem though is that neither of these candidates are getting out the vote - at least in the initial primaries, they’re running behind the 2008 figures, which was the last time there was no incumbent running. That’s not a good sign.

The GOP is running at record levels so far. That’s an even worse sign.

It’s why I keep harping on GOTV.

5
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:08:58pm

re: #2 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Their presence at or absence from rallies in the 60’s is going to have little influence on who I vote for…

I think you’re missing why Lewis did this. A lot of Clinton’s detractors don’t think she’s been there on progressive issues and he is pointing out that both Hillary and Bill Clinton were.

6
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:09:56pm

Here are the claims about Bernie’s activism on his wiki page.

en.wikipedia.org

7
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:09:57pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

I commend Lewis for this, even though I know he’s gonna get buried under a metric shit ton of stupidity from fanatical Bernie supporters.

And he has (even tho Berniebros are going to deny that).

8
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:10:47pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Had Lewis said that about Hillary, it would be identified as the fatal flaw and all but end her campaign. Or the media would spin it as that.

Bernie? I don’t think it’ll do that much damage to his credibility. He’ll shake it off by saying he was at some events, and Lewis didn’t get to meet/greet everyone participating.

Thing is that both are miles better than any GOP candidate on civil rights - the difference between Hillary and Bernie are slight. Yet, both candidates’ partisans are treating this as impeachable offenses leading to sitting out if the other is the nominee.

The problem though is that neither of these candidates are getting out the vote - at least in the initial primaries, they’re running behind the 2008 figures, which was the last time there was no incumbent running. That’s not a good sign.

The GOP is running at record levels so far. That’s an even worse sign.

It’s why I keep harping on GOTV.

Indeed. I’m curious about what Trump did at that age. And Cruz is on record of saying he wishes there were 100 Jesse Helms in the U.S Senate. That’s something I’d love to hear asked of him.

9
nines09  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:10:48pm

re: #4 lawhawk

If both camps, or even one camp, start playing “purity” games, they will shoot themselves in the foot and we will all bleed for it. The GOP hasn’t even started to lie. Not even started.

10
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:11:08pm

re: #5 HappyWarrior

I think you’re missing why Lewis did this. A lot of Clinton’s detractors don’t think she’s been there on progressive issues and he is pointing out that both Hillary and Bill Clinton were.

It still has little effect. I am going to vote based on who is the strongest candidate for the position of President in 2016.

11
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:11:11pm

There’s a diary on this over at dKos. The bernie bro hatred is real:

in response to this:

That Sanders supporters are whining only reinforces Charles Blow’s message that black people don’t like to be talked down to as if they are too stupid to make up their own minds.

someone posted this:

Then maybe some of them should stop* acting like they’re too stupid to make up their own minds.

*post immediately below changed start to stop.

12
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:12:05pm

re: #10 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It still has little effect. I am going to vote based on who is the strongest candidate for the position of President in 2016.

Well he was asked about it. He’s not saying vote for Hillary because of this. I think you’re reading this the wrong way. From what I understand he was asked about it and he gave an answer.

13
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:12:15pm

re: #4 lawhawk

Had Lewis said that about Hillary, it would be identified as the fatal flaw and all but end her campaign. Or the media would spin it as that.

Bernie? I don’t think it’ll do that much damage to his credibility. He’ll shake it off by saying he was at some events, and Lewis didn’t get to meet/greet everyone participating.

Thing is that both are miles better than any GOP candidate on civil rights - the difference between Hillary and Bernie are slight. Yet, both candidates’ partisans are treating this as impeachable offenses leading to sitting out if the other is the nominee.

Seriously. Ibelieve Sanders HAS been arrested at a desegregation march, and there WERE a lot of people at MLK—-says nothing if Lewis didn’t see him.

But it’s this kind of sniping at each other (and both groups have been doing it) that depresses GOTV.

14
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:13:11pm

Been blowing up on Twitter all day, some of the Bernie folks are too stupid to leave it alone and are attacking Lewis as “establishment” or worse.

Very few people buying what they trying to sell…

15
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:13:22pm

re: #11 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

There’s a diary on this over at dKos. The bernie bro hatred is real:

in response to this:

someone posted this:

*post immediately below changed start to stop.

Too stupid to make up their own minds? Man I’d be lying if that doesn’t sound like the crap I see Republicans say about African-American voters. If an African-American or anyone feels Bernie is the better choice, by all means vote for him but don’t patronize because John Lewis, a man who has lived a very long time gave his opinion and observations.

16
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:15:53pm

re: #13 gwangung

Seriously. Ibelieve Sanders HAS been arrested at a desegregation march, and there WERE a lot of people at MLK—-says nothing if Lewis didn’t see him.

But it’s this kind of sniping at each other (and both groups have been doing it) that depresses GOTV.

Right and honestly I think maybe he was being a little defensive of Clinton because he’s tired of hearing she hasn’t been there on these issues. So maybe he didn’t need to say he never met or saw Sanders there but the Bernei die hards need to know that their candidate is NOT the only one who was there on these issues. I did read a stupid comment in the Mother Jones comments claiming that Hillary and Bill were only there for themselves and to be seen.

17
KerFuFFler  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:17:01pm

OT and reposted from below (I took too long typing it out and the next thing I knew there was a new thread.)

I learned a weird thing about bullying when I was 11 or 12. I had a really bad overbite and this one girl kept making a mock buck toothed facial expression at me. This went on for weeks. I admit, I finally yielded to the temptation to be cruel and one day I let her have it when she did this in front of a bunch of other kids. I said, “Well, I’m getting braces and will someday have a beautiful smile, but your teeth will always look just like that.” She had a very bad case of “tetracycline teeth”, you know, dark yellow gray. It felt really good for a few seconds but I did kind of worry that I had made a real enemy of her.

I could not have been more wrong. The next few days she tried to become my friend——-kind of like the little cartoon yappy dog cozying up to the powerful bulldog. Once she saw I could dish it out she wanted me as an ally. I snubbed her advances. I had no interest in being part of a mean-girl social set. But seriously, it was a big lesson for me that people are way more complicated than grownups let on. Being nice is one way to get friends, but being mean can result in popularity.

18
stpaulbear  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:17:07pm

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

“Obama is pure evil,” he said. “But he’s nothing compared to what Bernie Sanders would do.” Savage predicted that Sanders would impose “naked communism in this country” and “use the street gangs that burned down Baltimore, the street gangs that burned down Ferguson, they will use them as government enforcers as sure as I’m sitting here, they will deputize them, they’ll give them green uniforms and they’ll be used to intimidate the middle class as sure as I’m sitting here.”

Edit: I’ll vote for any democrat to keep these assholes away from power.

19
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:18:32pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

…Savage predicted that Sanders would impose “naked communism in this country” and “use the street gangs that burned down Baltimore, the street gangs that burned down Ferguson, they will use them as government enforcers as sure as I’m sitting here, they will deputize them, they’ll give them green uniforms and they’ll be used to intimidate the middle class as sure as I’m sitting here.”

Why green?

20
EmmaAnne  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:18:48pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Well he was asked about it. He’s not saying vote for Hillary because of this. I think you’re reading this the wrong way. From what I understand he was asked about it and he gave an answer.

What was the question, do you know? The linked story doesn’t say.

21
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:18:51pm

This came in questions from the press after the Congressional Black Congress PAC announced their endorsement of Hillary.

22
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:19:05pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

That racist asshole certainly knows evil.

23
stpaulbear  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:20:42pm

re: #19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why green?

Because green is associated with evil energy conservation?

24
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:21:58pm

re: #20 EmmaAnne

What was the question, do you know? The linked story doesn’t say.

Looking at other stories, the question was apparently regarding the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, which John Lewis led.

Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), the progressive icon who led the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) during the civil rights movement, on Thursday dismissed Sen. Bernie Sanders’ participation in that movement.

When a reporter asked Lewis to comment on Sanders’ involvement in the movement—Sanders as a college student at the University of Chicago was active in civil rights work—the congressman brusquely interrupted him. “Well, to be very frank, I’m going to cut you off, but I never saw him, I never met him,” Lewis said. “I’m a chairman of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee for three years, from 1963 to 1966. I was involved in the sit-ins, the freedom rides, the March on Washington, the march from Selma to Montgomery, and directed their voter education project for six years. But I met Hillary Clinton. I met President Clinton.”

I still haven’t been able to find the exact question yet.

25
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:22:05pm
26
Charles Johnson  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:22:19pm
27
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:22:26pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

Edit: I’ll vote for any democrat to keep these assholes away from power.

That guy is so fucking demented. A perfect example of a lunatic who was given a radio show.

28
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:22:35pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sounds like a nice way of saying “Fuck you, John.”

29
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:22:58pm

re: #24 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Looking at other stories, the question was apparently regarding the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, which John Lewis led.

I still haven’t been able to find the exact question yet.

Thanks.

30
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:23:22pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

I did read a stupid comment in the Mother Jones comments claiming that Hillary and Bill were only there for themselves and to be seen.

That’s why she volunteered to go undercover as well. So she could be seen.

Now the radio idiots talking to Fry today were totally doing it for themselves.

31
nines09  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:23:49pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

And you heard today a man melt down at the Oregon Standoff who believes that poison. Every day. Non stop. Paid to poison. Hate sells. Business is good.

32
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:23:51pm

re: #19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why green?

The Iranian Green Movement, probably. The wingnuts like to throw that around a lot.

33
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:24:02pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

Sounds like a nice way of saying “Fuck you, John.”

Well let’s be fair. I don’t know how he responds to that. McCain though made a similar statement after Lewis condemned the McCain campaign’s rhetoric towards Obama.

34
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:24:15pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

Right and honestly I think maybe he was being a little defensive of Clinton because he’s tired of hearing she hasn’t been there on these issues. So maybe he didn’t need to say he never met or saw Sanders there but the Bernei die hards need to know that their candidate is NOT the only one who was there on these issues. I did read a stupid comment in the Mother Jones comments claiming that Hillary and Bill were only there for themselves and to be seen.

That’s an ignorant and ill-informed comment. The Clintons have decades of showing up for black groups (establishment or not). It’s part of why they have solid support from older African Americans. And, honestly, it’s the right way to do it.

(I’m gonna note that some folks are attacking BCC PAC for taking corporate money. And that kinda blows my mind. It’s asking for unilateral disarmament on the part of people who have little power in the first place).

35
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:24:23pm

re: #30 Belafon

That’s why she volunteered to go undercover as well. So she could be seen.

Now the radio idiots talking to Fry today were totally doing it for themselves.

I need to read more about that. Can you link me?

36
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:24:54pm

re: #19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why green?

The Nazi’s uniformed police wore green uniforms and were called the “green police.”

37
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:24:54pm

re: #13 gwangung

Seriously. Ibelieve Sanders HAS been arrested at a desegregation march, and there WERE a lot of people at MLK—-says nothing if Lewis didn’t see him.

But it’s this kind of sniping at each other (and both groups have been doing it) that depresses GOTV.

Big part of the reaction on Twitter is because of that picture that purportedly shows Bernie marching in Selma. Being tweeted at people over and over even after Sander’s campaign confirmed it wasn’t him and that he wasn’t at Selma.

“Did you know that Bernie marched with MLK? Look at this picture!” Says the dozenth nearly identical tweet of the day sent to anyone with a black avatar by a white college kid. Folks are sick of it and honestly don’t give a fuck what he did then. They don’t see him engaging or embracing them NOW!

38
nines09  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:25:55pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

He might as well be holding a sign that says, “I’m all out of butter.”

39
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:25:55pm

Ha, from Obama:

I stayed out of it so that I would not be polarizing. You had Republicans over in the Senate working with Democrats to negotiate something — Dick Durbin was involved with this; a young man named Marco Rubio was deeply involved in it — they get a bipartisan bill, it passed by a bipartisan vote, but then this reaction from the base that had been stirred up kills it. And that’s when we start taking executive action

latimes.com

40
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:25:56pm

re: #34 gwangung

That’s an ignorant and ill-informed comment. The Clintons have decades of showing up for black groups (establishment or not). It’s part of why they have solid support from older African Americans. And, honestly, it’s the right way to do it.

(I’m gonna note that some folks are attacking BCC PAC for taking corporate money. And that kinda blows my mind. It’s asking for unilateral disarmament on the part of people who have little power in the first place).

Absolutely. There is something to be said for Bill who grew up in the Jim Crow era South who later became a supporter of Civil Rights. Calling it just for publicity is such a load of crap.

41
Shiplord Kirel  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:26:07pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

The wacko obviously means his gang’s descent into drooling madness.

42
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:26:35pm

re: #37 ausador

Big part of the reaction on Twitter is because of that picture that purportedly shows Bernie marching in Selma. Being tweeted at people over and over even after Sander’s campaign confirmed it wasn’t him and that he wasn’t at Selma.

“Did you know that Bernie marched with MLK? Look at this picture!” Says the dozenth nearly identical tweet of the day sent to anyone with a black avatar by a white college kid. Folks are sick of it and honestly don’t give a fuck what he did then. They don’t see him engaging or embracing them NOW!

And they wonder why they’re thought of as patronizing….

(And Sanders is not doing himself favors by running against Obama….)

43
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:27:11pm

re: #35 HappyWarrior

I need to read more about that. Can you link me?

Here’s a start: dailykos.com.

44
ObserverArt  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:27:15pm

Following along as I await a video to complete in Premiere.

Is Bernie starting to get a little cocky with his recent NH victory and the media treating him well as some kind of Outsider and Clinton killer?

Damn…I get the feeling tonight is going to get a bit hotter.

Thoughts?

(lurk)

45
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:27:43pm

re: #37 ausador

Big part of the reaction on Twitter is because of that picture that purportedly shows Bernie marching in Selma. Being tweeted at people over and over even after Sander’s campaign confirmed it wasn’t him and that he wasn’t at Selma.

“Did you know that Bernie marched with MLK? Look at this picture!” Says the dozenth nearly identical tweet of the day sent to anyone with a black avatar by a white college kid. Folks are sick of it and honestly don’t give a fuck what he did then. They don’t see him engaging or embracing them NOW!

I think a lot in the community got annoyed by Bernie just pointing to this record. Clinton showed a willingness to listen to their concerns. See, I think a lot in Bernie’s camp really think it’s just issues and that’s it and whoever has the better voting record should win endorsements because of that. And I think that’s why Clinton by far has a much deeper following than Bernie does at this point.

46
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:29:36pm

re: #44 ObserverArt

Following along as I await a video to complete in Premiere.

Is Bernie starting to get a little cocky with his recent NH victory and the media treating him well as some kind of Outsider and Clinton killer?

Damn…I get the feeling tonight is going to get a bit hotter.

Thoughts?

(lurk)

I think I’m taking the debate off and stitching. Or writing. Or throwing things at my computer.

All of which would be more productive.

Downside is I will have to turn off Twitter too because I’m fed up with the politics of it all.

47
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:30:03pm

re: #44 ObserverArt

Following along as I await a video to complete in Premiere.

Is Bernie starting to get a little cocky with his recent NH victory and the media treating him well as some kind of Outsider and Clinton killer?

Damn…I get the feeling tonight is going to get a bit hotter.

Thoughts?

(lurk)

Looking forward to S.C. polling to see if Bernie gets a bump. I think Bernie needs to get within single digits of Hillary in the S.C. primary to make a real race of this. If he wins, then I think he’ll be the nominee.

48
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:30:19pm

re: #43 Belafon

Here’s a start: dailykos.com.

Thanks. What a fascinating read.

49
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:30:47pm

re: #42 gwangung

And they wonder why they’re thought of as patronizing….

(And Sanders is not doing himself favors by running against Obama….)

Sanders is trying to tap into the rich vein of far-left resentment over voting for Obama in 2008 and then feeling he’d “betrayed” them by not giving them the socialist paradise they dreamed of. And that might help him win the nomination, but it’s going to destroy him in the general when he’s telling people that items like the ACA are gonna get dismantled and replaced with something that he has no guarantee can ever be law.

50
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:32:48pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Sanders is trying to tap into the rich vein of far-left resentment over voting for Obama in 2008 and then feeling he’d “betrayed” them by not giving them the socialist paradise they dreamed of. And that might help him win the nomination, but it’s going to destroy him in the general when he’s telling people that items like the ACA are gonna get dismantled and replaced with something that he has no guarantee can ever be law.

Those not surprisingly are what most of the people I know supoprting him are. Honest to God, I like them and I know it sounds mean but I think they really set their hearts up for disappointment too much. Because let’s say Bernie is nominated and elected, there is going to be a point where he’ll be forced to compromise and ironically enough Bernie skeptics like you and me wlil understand far more than the Bernie diehard who loves him for his appearance of being uncompromising. And heaven forbid Bernie gets confronted with a foreign crisis that may have to use force.

51
Shiplord Kirel  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:34:15pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

“Obama is pure evil,” he said. “But he’s nothing compared to what Bernie Sanders would do.” Savage predicted that Sanders would impose “naked communism in this country” and “use the street gangs that burned down Baltimore, the street gangs that burned down Ferguson, they will use them as government enforcers as sure as I’m sitting here, they will deputize them, they’ll give them green uniforms and they’ll be used to intimidate the middle class as sure as I’m sitting here.”

Edit: I’ll vote for any democrat to keep these assholes away from power.

Once again, we see the far right’s implicit assumption that the urban “others” exist in vast numbers with hordes, swarms, waiting for the opportune moment to pour zombie-like into the suburbs to rape and pillage. This assumption is behind a lot of the obsessive gun and ammunition hoarding we see on the right, for example. It is also implicit, and sometimes explicit, in a lot of survivalist (right-wing prepper) propaganda.
The ignorance here, especially of demographics, is mind-boggling.

52
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:34:20pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Sanders is trying to tap into the rich vein of far-left resentment over voting for Obama in 2008 and then feeling he’d “betrayed” them by not giving them the socialist paradise they dreamed of. And that might help him win the nomination, but it’s going to destroy him in the general when he’s telling people that items like the ACA are gonna get dismantled and replaced with something that he has no guarantee can ever be law.

That strategy immediately ignores the feelings of a core component of the Democratic coalition. It’s telling the black voters point blank that their feelings and wishes don’t matter to him.

Given this strategy and his tactics, then it is quite rational for a black person to feel that Sanders doesn’t really care about black people (because, after all, he is actually putting their concerns on the back burner).

53
JasonA  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:35:16pm
54
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:35:27pm

The way Bernie shrugged off the PP endorsement of Clinton bothered me too. Just calling them the establishment and totally ignoring the hell that organization has gone through not to mention the constant demonization.

55
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:36:24pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

Edit: I’ll vote for any democrat to keep these assholes away from power.

You laugh, but all of Michael Weiner Savage’s dire predictions have come true, haven’t they?

/////

56
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:36:55pm

re: #53 JasonA

Embedded Image

Well I’m using a personal computer. a device of who people give credit to a gay man who was driven to suicide by right wing white Christians.

57
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:37:20pm

re: #55 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

You laugh, but all of Michael Weiner Savage’s dire predictions have come true, haven’t they?

/////

Yes, Michael’s broadcasting his screed live in Auschwitz 2.0.

58
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:37:58pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

The way Bernie shrugged off the PP endorsement of Clinton bothered me too. Just calling them the establishment and totally ignoring the hell that organization has gone through not to mention the constant demonization.

That’s the other thing that I think will bite Bernie in the ass hard in the long run, the sneering dismissal of any who don’t endorse him as “establishment.” I get enough of that shit from his supporters, who took his “you can’t be a progressive and a moderate” sentiment and have ran with it. I don’t respond well to being told that if I’m not for you, I’m somehow against you.

59
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:39:02pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

The way Bernie shrugged off the PP endorsement of Clinton bothered me too. Just calling them the establishment and totally ignoring the hell that organization has gone through not to mention the constant demonization.

Thing is, while I lean Clinton, I could be persuaded to hop on the Sanders bandwagon. But a lot of what I’m seeing is telling me “No, not a good idea.”

60
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:40:16pm

re: #58 Targetpractice

That’s the other thing that I think will bite Bernie in the ass hard in the long run, the sneering dismissal of any who don’t endorse him as “establishment.” I get enough of that shit from his supporters, who took his “you can’t be a progressive and a moderate” sentiment and have ran with it. I don’t respond well to being told that if I’m not for you, I’m somehow against you.

I haven’t commented on any of my friends who support Bernie because I don’t want ot hear that crap. I just have a different way of looking at who I want to be my country’s leader. But yes, treating anyone who doesn’t support him like ESTABLISHMENT is such a weasely way of dealing with the very real reasons why so many elected officials have to prefer Clinton to him. I hate to say it but it’s very Ron Paul like.

61
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:41:01pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Savage predicted that Sanders would impose “naked communism in this country” and “use the street gangs that burned down Baltimore, the street gangs that burned down Ferguson, they will use them as government enforcers

So Sanders will use all the utes of Bmore and Ferguson, all 300+ of them to be generous, as government enforcers over 300 million Americans, many of them with gunz?

I guess there’s just not anything too wacky for Michael Weiner Savage to say on the air that would cost him his gig.

62
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:41:27pm

Think about this: we’re having an argument in the party over who has done more in the civil rights front. To me, that’s actually a bit encouraging. Now, what we’re going to have is the two white candidates clumsily figuring out how to say it properly, but, at least to me, it’s a sign.

Yep, I’m an optimist.

63
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:41:37pm
64
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:42:01pm

re: #53 JasonA

[Embedded content]

No, I don’t see any racism here at all, not at all. Why do you ask?

////

65
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:42:31pm

re: #59 gwangung

Thing is, while I lean Clinton, I could be persuaded to hop on the Sanders bandwagon. But a lot of what I’m seeing is telling me “No, not a good idea.”

I was for him at first. I had my problems with Clinton but a lot of what I have seen has really turned me off big time. As TP got at, I resent the hell being told I’m not a real progressive. And I’ll be fair, I’ve seen some nasty shit thrown at women especially who don’t support Secretary Clinton too but I think as weird as it sounds, Hillary is acting more like Obama of 2008 and Bernie more like she did in the sense that he’s really thin skinned towards anyone who isn’t rah rah for him.

66
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:43:05pm

re: #63 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Apparently Rubio really is Spanish for “Quayle.”

67
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:44:20pm

re: #39 Belafon

I should have mentioned that this quote was from Obama, about immigration.

68
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:44:46pm

re: #66 Targetpractice

Apparently Rubio really is Spanish for “Quayle.”

Yeah I thought it was Romney at first but he’s definitely more Quayle like the more I see. Definitely not the smartest bulb in the GOP closet. Then again there’s not a lot of smart bulbs left period but Marco is a pretty dim bulb even considering the rest.

69
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:45:06pm
70
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:45:21pm
71
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:45:48pm

re: #67 Belafon

I should have mentioned that this quote was from Obama, about immigration.

Figured and he’s right. As soon as the base turned on Rubio for working with the Democrats on immigration, he flipped. It’s a prime example of why Marco Rubio is not a leader at all.

72
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:47:26pm

I did see that Clinton mentioned job opps for people with disabilities at a recent debate. That’s big for me for obvious reasons. So although Sanders can be said to have a far more ambitious agenda than Clinton, my observation is I think hers is far more inclusive.

73
Timothy Watson  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:50:21pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Descent was pretty kickass:

74
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:50:33pm

littlegreenfootballs.com

I tweeted them an FBI fax number. :)

75
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:51:32pm

re: #73 Timothy Watson

Descent was pretty kickass:

Embedded Image

Yeah, was a cool game for its day.

76
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:52:52pm

I do think it’s a fair thing to ponder that Bernie has been a progressive voice in Congress for a long time but most progressives in the Congress prefer Clinton. Now as I got at the other night, many did endorse before he entered but at the same time, I don’t think it speaks well to him as a leader. Remember these are the people who know him the best. They’re his co-workers. I mean this is sad but true but even Ted Cruz who has a much worse reputation from his colleagues has more people in Congress backing him than Bernie. I hate to sound like a downer but perhaps the answer is that Bernie while someone they admire and appreciate for his ideals is someone they just don’t see as a leader. Call ti establishment politics all you want to but these people do work with the guy and I can’t discount that he has only two Congresspeople supporting him when he’s been there since 1990.

77
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:52:58pm

re: #70 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

78
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:54:22pm
79
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:55:22pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]

Making up for the time that he took Jeb’s baseball cards I guess.

80
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:56:38pm

I’ll just leave this here for any Bernie supporters who think the Bernie Bro meme isn’t based on actual experience:

Now, honestly I think this behavior of harassing black people who don’t support their is based more on desperation than actual animus, and would almost certainly be occurring on the other side if the shoes were reversed. But the fact is that a lot of Sanders’ supporters feel entitled to the support of black Americans and they are extremely upset that they aren’t getting it. Responses to this range the entire spectrum of frankly racist coping mechanisms, from patronizing rationalizations that blacks just aren’t educated enough about Bernie’s record to outright, abject harassment.

I actually like the guy, but considering that his campaign puts forward official surrogates like Cornel West and Killer Mike, who have both called President Obama a house n-word, I don’t think they should be surprised at their lack of headway in pursuit of the african american primary vote. In fact, using people like that as his “ambassadors” smacks more of assuaging the sensitivities of white supporters and donors about a lack of meaningful black support than it does of a genuine attempt at black outreach. In fact it’s more of the same patronizing and insulting strategy, assuming that black voters don’t know exactly who these guys are and what they’ve said.

81
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:56:51pm

I don’t want to sound dismissive of Bernie but I want to see him build up a coalition that is more than frankly white liberals. White liberals and I am one are a key part of the base but we’re not the only part and it’s unfair to act like we’re the ones getting screwed by the party.

82
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 1:58:51pm

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

I’ll just leave this here for any Bernie supporters who think the Bernie Bro meme isn’t based on actual experience:

[Embedded content]

Now, honestly I think this behavior of harassing black people who don’t support their is based more on desperation than actual animus, and would almost certainly be occurring on the other side if the shoes were reversed. But the fact is that a lot of Sanders’ supporters feel entitled to the support of black Americans and they are extremely upset that they aren’t getting it. Responses to this range the entire spectrum of frankly racist coping mechanisms, from patronizing rationalizations that blacks just aren’t educated enough about Bernie’s record to outright, abject harassment.

I actually like they guy, but considering that his campaign puts forward official surrogates like Cornel West and Killer Mike, who have both called President Obama a house n-word, I don’t think they should be surprised at their lack of headway in pursuit of the african american primary vote. In fact, using people like that as his “ambassadors” smacks more of assuaging white guilt sensitivities about a lack of visible black spokesman support than it does of a genuine attempt at black outreach. In fact it’s more of the same patronizing and insulting strategy, assuming that black voters don’t know exactly who these guys are and what they’ve said.

She nails it. And I agree with you too. So much of it is patronizing. I like him quite a bit too and think he deserves loads of credit for his record but I think so much of the job he and Hillary are seeking is much more than just their record.

83
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:02:17pm

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

I actually like they guy, but considering that his campaign puts forward official surrogates like Cornel West and Killer Mike

Had no idea there was someone named Killer Mike until his name popped up on some Twitter TL the other day.

Yes, please everyone get off my damn lawn.

84
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:02:49pm

re: #80 goddamnedfrank

I’ll just leave this here for any Bernie supporters who think the Bernie Bro meme isn’t based on actual experience:

[Embedded content]

Now, honestly I think this behavior of harassing black people who don’t support their is based more on desperation than actual animus, and would almost certainly be occurring on the other side if the shoes were reversed. But the fact is that a lot of Sanders’ supporters feel entitled to the support of black Americans and they are extremely upset that they aren’t getting it. Responses to this range the entire spectrum of frankly racist coping mechanisms, from patronizing rationalizations that blacks just aren’t educated enough about Bernie’s record to outright, abject harassment.

I actually like they guy, but considering that his campaign puts forward official surrogates like Cornel West and Killer Mike, who have both called President Obama a house n-word, I don’t think they should be surprised at their lack of headway in pursuit of the african american primary vote. In fact, using people like that as his “ambassadors” smacks more of assuaging white guilt sensitivities about a lack of visible black spokesman support than it does of a genuine attempt at black outreach. In fact it’s more of the same patronizing and insulting strategy, assuming that black voters don’t know exactly who these guys are and what they’ve said.

It still sticks out to me that Bernie blew off a vote on North Korean sanctions, something he was speaking up about last week as a way to puff up his real lack of foreign policy experience, to go kiss the ring of Al Sharpton and stop off to appear on The View. I’m not sure how that can really be read as anything other than patronizing.

85
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:03:05pm

Sanders knows he is going to have to make inroads in minority groups to win the next few contests. He can present his own record and history, which it sounds like he’s got a record. But Clinton has her own record. And all Democrats have learned what you do when someone tries to go after your record. We have Gore and Kerry to thank for that.

86
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:04:47pm

Warning: Don’t take a drink of anything before reading this tweet:

87
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:05:09pm

Just laying this here…

88
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:05:22pm
89
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:05:43pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

It still sticks out to me that Bernie blew off a vote on North Korean sanctions, something he was speaking up about last week as a way to puff up his real lack of foreign policy experience, to go kiss the ring of Al Sharpton and stop off to appear on The View. I’m not sure how that can really be read as anything other than patronizing.

Yeah that wasn’t very presidential. I mean these missed votes are going to happen but don’t say you believe X is the biggest threat and then miss votes on it. It’s just like Rubio talking about how we ignore ISIS’s threat and he never votes on legislation involving ISIS and is absent form the hearings on them. And it may sting to point it out but Bernie acted exactly like Marco did there, a talker with no action.

90
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:06:52pm

re: #87 gwangung

Just laying this here…

[Embedded content]

And that’s what drives me bonkers. Stop acting like Bernie’s presence is the only thing keeping Hillary from running as a Republican.

91
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:07:42pm

A few of the tweets:

92
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:08:02pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

And that’s what drives me bonkers. Stop acting like Bernie’s presence is the only thing keeping Hillary from running as a Republican.

I admit, I am at times guilty of having the impression that the man is largely responsible for the conversations we’re now having. I think he’s made her feel comfortable to stretch out to the left, but I don’t think she had far to stretch.

93
Charles Johnson  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:09:10pm
94
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:09:15pm
95
Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:09:30pm

re: #19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why green?

Trump already has dibs on brown ones.

96
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:10:28pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

I admit, I am at times guilty of having the impression that the man is largely responsible for the conversations we’re now having. I think he’s made her feel comfortable to stretch out to the left, but I don’t think she had far to stretch.

I mean no doubt he’s made her run more to the left. I just don’t buy what was suggested there that he’s the only thing that’s keeping her from running to the left on any issue. I mean if he can push her to the left, bully for him but I just don’t like this lie that if not for him, she wouldn’t’ run to the left on any issue. I also don’t like the suggestion she does nothing but pander and he somehow doesn’t. Nonsense, he does and I’ve seen this with his stance on guns. He to his credit has come out in favor of closing the gun show loophole but that’s something he was largely silent on before Clinton called him out on his record.

97
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:11:03pm
98
TedStriker  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:11:18pm

re: #19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why green?

He’s basically calling Sanders’ supporters (and Dems, in general) “watermelons”: green (“radical” enviromentalists) on the outside, red (Communists) on the inside.

It’s a variation of the “Oreo” slur a lot of the more bigoted “conservatives” use for black folks who act “too white”.

99
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:12:37pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

Sounds like a nice way of saying “Fuck you, John.”

I was just thinking that it was pretty classy. Weird how we have different perceptions of the same thing.

100
Testy Toad T  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:17:18pm

Over at TPM, half of the comments on the Lewis article are at least half as toxic as Fox News. It’s fucking flabbergasting to me that a putative liberal would dare question Lewis on 1) his own damn right to shadow-endorse whoever he pleases and 2) his record on anything even faintly resembling civil rights.

Either trolls or an expression of my growing suspicion that Sanders’ 2016 constituency contains a lot of 2012 LUAPNOR backers.

101
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:18:06pm
102
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:18:18pm

re: #99 Sionainn

I was just thinking that it was pretty classy. Weird how we have different perceptions of the same thing.

I think it’s classy in light of his remarks about PP, that he’s being classy because Lewis is such a fixture not only of Congress but of the Civil Rights movement that just blowing him off as “establishment” would be counterproductive to his efforts to convince black voters he wants them for anything more than a vote.

103
Charles Johnson  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:19:39pm

Rage Furby searching for his name on Twitter, look who turns up.

104
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:20:11pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

I don’t want to sound dismissive of Bernie but I want to see him build up a coalition that is more than frankly white liberals. White liberals and I am one are a key part of the base but we’re not the only part and it’s unfair to act like we’re the ones getting screwed by the party.

It’s just that the “screwedness” others have been dealing with for generations or decades has finally worked its way up into the remnants of the middle class. Novel to them, very old news for many in the Democratic tent.

105
Shiplord Kirel  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:21:13pm

The right’s hate campaign against Obama has reached extremes not seen in this country since the Civil War.
Even so, I fear that it was only a warm-up for what we will see directed at the Democratic nominee later this year. ‘
If Hillary Clinton is the nominee, the GOP will have a 25 year legacy of conspiracy theories, wild accusations, and crazy speculation to draw on, and we will see it all re-cycled. Vince Foster, “Arkancide,” and Travelgate were long enough ago that many younger voters will not have heard of them. This gives the radio/internet hate industry an opportunity to run them again as though they were new revelations.
As for Bernie, well, my god, he will be the second coming of Stalin if he wins the nomination. In the latter case, the right’s long running war on education may actually work against them, since many likely voters will have only the fuzziest idea who Stalin was. Trotsky and Mao are out of the question.

106
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:21:17pm
107
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:21:55pm
108
blueraven  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:23:14pm

Live feed Oregon standoff presser

katu.com

109
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:23:33pm
110
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:24:03pm

I haven’t exactly been paying a huge amount of attention to what each side has been saying, but did Sanders ever actually go after Clinton on this, or was he just touting his own record over and over?

111
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:24:57pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

He can definitely afford one… but no sane attorney is going to take his case, not if they bother to do a PACER search for his prior cases.

112
blueraven  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:25:19pm

re: #108 blueraven

Live feed Oregon standoff presser

katu.com

Aaaand it’s over. Will be uploaded to Oregon FBI site, I think.

113
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:26:17pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

Winograd = grapes in Russian.

114
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:26:32pm

Judge has no patience for Bundy games:

115
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:27:20pm

re: #111 KGxvi

He can definitely afford one… but no sane attorney is going to take his case, not if they bother to do a PACER search for his prior cases.

Well, the attorney could make some good money, and maybe he or she could try the Chewbacca defense.

116
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:28:20pm

So this Lee Fang guy seems like he’s based his entire attack on the Congressional Black Caucus on a ridiculous nothing burger.

117
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:28:36pm

re: #111 KGxvi

He can definitely afford one… but no sane attorney is going to take his case, not if they bother to do a PACER search for his prior cases.

I can only presume by this point that his defense attorney(s) are gonna try to spring him on a technicality. Because the odds of his being acquitted in any other way are worse than my winning the Power Ball twice.

118
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:29:03pm
119
Stanley Sea  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:31:08pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sell your plane dude.

120
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:31:18pm

re: #115 Belafon

Well, the attorney could make some good money, and maybe he or she could try the Chewbacca defense.

Any attorney trying the Chewbacca defense in front of a federal judge is going to end up in a cell next to his client.

Seriously, though, I read through some of his pro per filings a while back. The guy is nuttier than a bag of acorns. There would have to be at least two commas in the retainer check, and all earned on receipt, for anyone to consider it.

But I could see one of these stupid wingnut non-profit organizations taking up his defense.

121
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:33:18pm
122
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:34:07pm

re: #121 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Between those hearings, he’ll learn a whole lot about “the negro.”

123
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:35:12pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

Judge has no patience for Bundy games:

[Embedded content]

Um, that’s not a game.

Just give the guy his damned meds. The justice system gains nothing here by being petty and bureaucratic about basic health needs.

Full disclosure, the only meds I take are to manage HBP so I may be biased. It’s just such an easy condition to manage and I don’t see why making him wait at all for already prescribed meds is an ethical thing to do.

124
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:35:47pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

I can only presume by this point that his defense attorney(s) are gonna try to spring him on a technicality. Because the odds of his being acquitted in any other way are worse than my winning the Power Ball twice.

If I were Bundy’s lawyer, I’d be tempted to argue the insanity defense along the following lines:

“My client thinks he is above the law. As all in the US know, you have to be a banking executive to be above the law in this country. So my client is suffering from the delusion that he’s a banking executive.”

Its chance of success isn’t much lower than that of any other available argument.

125
Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:37:35pm

Just checked in to see my Fiorina post not only made it atop the recommended pages, but it even got a promo-Tweet.

Very gratifying, and giving me an “Aw, shucks” type moment here.

I’ve had to be away from the comment threads here the last two days, and I find that I miss the conversation more than I thought I would. Thanks, everybody.

126
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:38:01pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

…Savage predicted that Sanders would impose “naked communism in this country” and “use the street gangs that burned down Baltimore, the street gangs that burned down Ferguson, they will use them as government enforcers as sure as I’m sitting here, they will deputize them, they’ll give them green uniforms and they’ll be used to intimidate the middle class as sure as I’m sitting here.”

Fine. Let’s start with you, Michael…

127
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:38:10pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Um, that’s not a game.

[Embedded content]

Just give the guy his damned meds. The justice system gains nothing here by being petty and bureaucratic about basic health needs.

However the only meds I take are to manage HBP so I may be biased. It’s just such an easy condition to manage and I don’t see why making him wait at all for already prescribed meds is an ethical thing to do.

He could have done that last night.

128
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:38:32pm

Meanwhile in Georgia:

129
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:38:59pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

So the elder Bundy continues to be a leach on society.

130
makeitstop  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:39:02pm

Jumping in, going OT, then back to work. This is great.

Trump meets The Honeymooners

(Apologies if someone found it before me.)

131
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:39:25pm

Just so we’re clear here, a blood pressure reading of 188/122 constitutes a full on hypertensive crisis. Bundy should’ve been taken straight to the hospital. At his age it’s very possible to stroke out in that condition.

132
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:40:29pm
133
blueraven  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:40:48pm

Cliven Bundy criminal complaint

134
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:41:15pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Once you are in custody, anything but immediately life threatening (like, you are collapsed and not breathing) conditions tend to be shrugged off. The attitude seems to generally be “Hey, sucks to be you and you should have thought about that before you ended up here”.

I do not agree with that attitude. However, callousness really is part of the experience.

135
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:41:41pm

Question: have any one the wingnut candidates said anything about the Bundy arrest?

Also, have there been any notable headsplosions?

136
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:41:54pm

When’s the last time anyone heard the name “Hammond”?

Just saying…

137
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:42:42pm

re: #136 GlutenFreeJesus

When’s the last time anyone heard the name “Hammond”?

Just saying…

It was never about them.

138
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:43:22pm

re: #113 Nyet

Winograd = grapes in Russian.

If Morley is Russian for “Sour”, my day will be made.

139
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:43:26pm

re: #127 Backwoods_Sleuth

He could have done that last night.

The most common medication for controlling high blood pressure is Toprol (Metoprolol). It needs to be taken every 12 hours, because it cycles out of the human body so quickly. There is a time release formula that allows it to be taken once a day.

140
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:43:28pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

Just so we’re clear here, a blood pressure reading of 188/122 constitutes a full on hypertensive crisis. Bundy should’ve been taken straight to the hospital. At his age it’s very possible to stroke out in that condition.

Unless he goes into some sort of arrest, I doubt they are going do any medical intervention. Jail authorities are notorious for not giving prescribed medication and it is damned near impossible to make them.

141
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:44:09pm

re: #137 Backwoods_Sleuth

Bingo.

142
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:44:17pm

re: #134 Aunty Entity Dragon

Once you are in custody, anything but immediately life threatening (like, you are collapsed and not breathing) conditions tend to be shrugged off. The attitude seems to generally be “Hey, sucks to be you and you should have thought about that before you ended up here”.

I do not agree with that attitude. However, callousness really is part of the experience.

188/122 is life threatening.

143
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:44:31pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank

Wasn’t Lee Fang with Think Progress for a while? Sorta, I guess. en.wikipedia.org

144
thedopefishlives  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:45:30pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

188/122 is life threatening.

Okay, “life threatening” where it is immediately apparent to anyone observing that you are in imminent danger. Hypertension, while serious and dangerous, is not immediately apparent.

145
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:45:42pm

re: #138 WhatEVs

If Morley is Russian for “Sour”, my day will be made.

No, but “morley” sounds, in a synesthetic way, like pretty “sour” to me ;)

146
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:45:45pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

188/122 is life threatening.

Yep. In the doctor’s office I work for, if a patient comes in with that kind of reading, they are immediately referred to the ER.

147
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:47:00pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

188/122 is life threatening.

They do not necessarily see it that way. Until you are actually prone and non responsive, they really don’t give a fuck. They also do not have to. If he dies of a natural cause, they will not be held responsible.

148
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:47:42pm

re: #147 Aunty Entity Dragon

They do not necessarily see it that way. Until you are actually prone and non responsive, they really don’t give a fuck. They also do not have to. If he dies of a natural cause, they will not be held responsible.

They ARE being treated just the same as black defendants, just so they know…

149
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:48:43pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

Just so we’re clear here, a blood pressure reading of 188/122 constitutes a full on hypertensive crisis. Bundy should’ve been taken straight to the hospital. At his age it’s very possible to stroke out in that condition.

The last thing they (and we) need is him dying in custody. That would send the already crazy people into a complete frenzy. David Fry would look sane in comparison.

150
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:48:47pm

oh ffs

151
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:48:51pm

Good afternoon all. I’m delighted that the Oregon standoff ended without further bloodshed.

It is full on allergy season for me here. The beautiful weather lures me out and the sneezing and itching drive me back inside. How is everyone else?

152
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:48:57pm

re: #144 thedopefishlives

Okay, “life threatening” where it is immediately apparent to anyone observing that you are in imminent danger. Hypertension, while serious and dangerous, is not immediately apparent.

Which is why they call it the “silent killer.” The point is they’re supposed to be professionals who fucking know better. They bothered to take his goddamned bp reading on intake, so what exactly was the point of doing that if they’re aren’t going to provide the minimal basic health intervention such a reading calls for?

153
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:50:30pm

re: #150 Nyet

[Embedded content]

oh ffs

He’s trolling.

154
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:51:26pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

I know this frustrates you and it should. I’m just telling you that jail authorities are not there to help prisoners who come in with serious medical conditions. They will assume you are scamming or some such, and unless the medical personnel there really make an issue of it, nobody and I mean nobody gives a shit if a prisoner is badly ill.

155
TedStriker  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:52:37pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

Just so we’re clear here, a blood pressure reading of 188/122 constitutes a full on hypertensive crisis. Bundy should’ve been taken straight to the hospital. At his age it’s very possible to stroke out in that condition.

No shit.

We don’t tolerate it when cops withhold or delay medical treatment for minorities in medical distress, we shouldn’t tolerate it here, even for a contemptible shithead such as Cliven Bundy.

All should be equal under the law and be given basic human rights while incarcerated.

156
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:53:28pm
157
Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:55:09pm

re: #154 Aunty Entity Dragon

I know this frustrates you and it should. I’m just telling you that jail authorities are not there to help prisoners who come in with serious medical conditions. They will assume you are scamming or some such, and unless the medical personnel there really make an issue of it, nobody and I mean nobody gives a shit if a prisoner is badly ill.

Yep. We handled a case years ago where a guy was wrongfully detained, and while getting slammed around (he was pissed about getting hauled in for asking WTF while his friend was getting arrested), his back went out. Bad. As in, losing control of bowels, unable to stand up.

Guards left him for 3 days in his cell lying in agony in a puddle of his own shit & piss. I’m guessing with the profile Cliven has, he won’t get that same level of neglect, but the attitude is “Hey pal, this ain’t a health spa. And if you die, fuck you, that’s just one less meal we gotta serve up.”

158
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:55:19pm

re: #154 Aunty Entity Dragon

I know this frustrates you and it should. I’m just telling you that jail authorities are not there to help prisoners who come in with serious medical conditions. They will assume you are scamming or some such, and unless the medical personnel there really make an issue of it, nobody and I mean nobody gives a shit if a prisoner is badly ill.

That’s just wrong. GDF is right…why take his BP if they weren’t going to do anything about it. They now know that he has a severe hypertension problem and they should be responsible if he dies because they knew about it and failed to do anything.

159
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:55:58pm

re: #155 TedStriker

All should be equal under the law.

Well, from a certain perspective… there is equality under the law in this situation.

In a much less facetious tone, let me say, this is one of many parts of the criminal justice system that need to be fixed. It is, I believe, a complete mess and despite constitutional protections designed to aid those accused of crimes, it is stacked against them completely. I don’t know how we fix it though.

160
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:56:19pm

re: #157 Khal Wimpo (coatless in Vermont)

Yep. We handled a case years ago where a guy was wrongfully detained, and while getting slammed around (he was pissed about getting hauled in for asking WTF while his friend was getting arrested), his back went out. Bad. As in, losing control of bowels, unable to stand up.

Guards left him for 3 days in his cell lying in agony in a puddle of his own shit & piss. I’m guessing with the profile Cliven has, he won’t get that same level of neglect, but the attitude is “Hey pal, this ain’t a health spa. And if you die, fuck you, that’s just one less meal we gotta serve up.”

That is so wrong.

161
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:56:36pm

re: #152 goddamnedfrank

Which is why they call it the “silent killer.” The point is they’re supposed to be professionals who fucking know better. They bothered to take his goddamned bp reading on intake, so what exactly was the point of doing that if they’re aren’t going to provide the minimal basic health intervention such a reading calls for?

You don’t seem to have much experience talking to people who have seen the inside of the legal system from that angle. My dad was a corrections officer. Corrections officers and deputies at the county lockup have utterly no fucking regard for you if you are in there. If you are dying on the floor, they will call an ambulance so they do not have to deal with you. If you are bleeding profusely because you got shanked, you will be sent to the dispensary. Other then that, they are there to see you do not escape and will be at your next court hearing.

162
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:56:43pm

re: #150 Nyet

re: #153 HappyWarrior

Amash is one of the members of both the Liberty Caucus and the Freedom Caucus.
Super wingnut.

163
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:56:55pm

re: #152 goddamnedfrank

Which is why they call it the “silent killer.” The point is they’re supposed to be professionals who fucking know better. They bothered to take his goddamned bp reading on intake, so what exactly was the point of doing that if they’re aren’t going to provide the minimal basic health intervention such a reading calls for?

My grandmother died of a stroke, three days after being admitted to the hospital with her blood pressure sky high (higher than that).

I just can’t today.

164
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:57:09pm

re: #159 KGxvi

Well, from a certain perspective… there is equality under the law in this situation.

In a much less facetious tone, let me say, this is one of many parts of the criminal justice system that need to be fixed. It is, I believe, a complete mess and despite constitutional protections designed to aid those accused of crimes, it is stacked against them completely. I don’t know how we fix it though.

Start treating people like goddamn human beings. There’s a start.

165
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:58:33pm

At least I got dinner going in the crock pot, and now I can sit down and write, I guess.

(If I’m lucky mr. klys will be home by 9 tonight. Hah. Hah.)

166
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:03pm

re: #162 Backwoods_Sleuth

Amash is one of the members of both the Liberty Caucus and the Freedom Caucus.
Super wingnut.

Yep big time Paul fan IIRC.

167
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:05pm

re: #164 Sionainn

As #161 Aunty Entity Dragon points out, it is a cultural issue. And changing a culture is like trying to turn an aircraft carrier with no radar in a hurricane…

168
TedStriker  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:10pm

re: #164 Sionainn

Start treating people like goddamn human beings. There’s a start.

Something that many who work in our adversarial LE agencies seem to have forgotten or just plain ignore.

169
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:13pm

re: #158 Sionainn

That’s just wrong. GDF is right…why take his BP if they weren’t going to do anything about it. They now know that he has a severe hypertension problem and they should be responsible if he dies because they knew about it and failed to do anything.

They will not be held responsible. They should in theory of course…but this is America and we have a 300 year tradition of beatings, neglect and torture when it comes to prisons.

170
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:19pm

re: #161 Aunty Entity Dragon

You don’t seem to have much experience talking to people who have seen the inside of the legal system from that angle. My did was a corrections officer. Corrections officers and deputies at the county lockup have utterly no fucking regard for you if you are in there. If you are dying on the floor, they will call an ambulance so they do not have to deal with you. If you are bleeding profusely because you got shanked, you will be sent to the dispensary. Other then that, they are there to see you do not escape and will be at your next court hearing.

My grandfather taught upholstery in the Oregon State prison furniture shop. My uncle worked as a guard then went to prison for armed robbery, where he acquired the HIV that eventually killed him. I’ve got a pretty good idea of how depraved and indifferent our justice system is.

171
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 2:59:39pm

We may be jumping to a conclusion (obvious though it may be) that he hasn’t received any meds. It could be that he has been provided with meds. He wants the ones in his carryon bag.

172
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:00:20pm

re: #159 KGxvi

Well, from a certain perspective… there is equality under the law in this situation.

In a much less facetious tone, let me say, this is one of many parts of the criminal justice system that need to be fixed. It is, I believe, a complete mess and despite constitutional protections designed to aid those accused of crimes, it is stacked against them completely. I don’t know how we fix it though.

Part of the problem is that no one wants to be in jail (or prison.) The hospital is much nicer, so prisoners will fake illness, or actually injure themselves so they can be taken to the hospital.
This does not, in any way, shape or form mean that people in prison shouldn’t have a right to decent healthcare, but it might explain part of where the extremely inhumane treatment of the actually ill or injured comes from.

173
S'latch  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:02:09pm

Who is this Bernie Sanders, guy, anyway? I never heard of him. He’s not for civil rights. Never was for civil rights. He’s a big phony.

174
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:02:24pm

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

We may be jumping to a conclusion (obvious though it may be) that he hasn’t received any meds. It could be that he has been provided with meds. He wants the ones in his carryon bag.

That may be entirely right. I would be surprised if a high profile prisoner like him did get treatment at some point, but I would not expect them to be at all in any hurry.

175
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:02:33pm

Metoprolol costs about 17 cents per 50mg pill. How much will treating Bundy for a stroke in custody cost the government?

176
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:03:03pm

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

We may be jumping to a conclusion (obvious though it may be) that he hasn’t received any meds. It could be that he has been provided with meds. He wants the ones in his carryon bag.

I find it hard to imagine they would refuse to treat a life threatening condition in a high profile prisoner. On the other hand, there are so many things I find hard to imagine that actually happen every day.

177
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:03:59pm

re: #167 KGxvi

As #161 Aunty Entity Dragon points out, it is a cultural issue. And changing a culture is like trying to turn an aircraft carrier with no radar in a hurricane…

I don’t believe that. It is not difficult to start treating prisoners like human beings, providing medical attention when they need it. That’s not hard!

178
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:04:55pm

re: #175 goddamnedfrank

Metoprolol costs about 17 cents per 50mg pill. How much will treating Bundy for a stroke in custody cost the government?

Virtually nothing. You just have to find somebody who wants to get off their ass and go get it along with an actual doctor’s prescription. Good luck.

179
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:07:18pm

re: #175 goddamnedfrank

Metoprolol costs about 17 cents per 50mg pill. How much will treating Bundy for a stroke in custody cost the government?

The bigger question is how much it will cost US if he strokes out?

180
blueraven  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:07:21pm

The Hill. Journalism.

181
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:07:35pm

re: #177 Sionainn

I don’t believe that. It is not difficult to start treating prisoners like human beings, providing medical attention when they need it. That’s not hard!

If nothing else we should all expect the government to spend our tax dollars wisely, and timely preventative care saves an amazing amount of money.

182
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:08:04pm

re: #180 blueraven

The Hill. Journalism.

[Embedded content]

Newsworthy. //

183
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:08:41pm

re: #180 blueraven

Damn. Now I have the munchies.

184
blueraven  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:08:53pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Newsworthy. //

They have always been pretty bad but lately, hoo boy!

185
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:09:09pm

these people…

186
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:09:56pm

re: #184 blueraven

They have always been pretty bad but lately, hoo boy!

I know, no kidding.

187
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:10:21pm

re: #185 Backwoods_Sleuth

these people…

[Embedded content]

No one would fill the tire with air for her? She had to buy 2 new ones?

188
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:10:31pm

re: #177 Sionainn

In theory, no, it’s not hard. In reality? In a system where prisoners are dehumanized and are treated as “just a number” (in the best case scenario)? It’s much harder. There is a presumption, I think, that runs from the beat cops to the district attorney’s office to prison guards to probation officers that if you’re here you’re guilty and you get what you deserve. And then there’s how normal people feel about people who are accused of crimes, convicted, and imprisoned - a lot of people are typically offended that prisoners get schooling “on our dime”, even though education reduces the chances of them being repeat offenders.

189
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:13:34pm

re: #185 Backwoods_Sleuth

these people…

[Embedded content]

Why does one need new tires if the air was simply let out of them?

190
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:14:46pm

re: #188 KGxvi

In theory, no, it’s not hard. In reality? In a system where prisoners are dehumanized and are treated as “just a number” (in the best case scenario)? It’s much harder. There is a presumption, I think, that runs from the beat cops to the district attorney’s office to prison guards to probation officers that if you’re here you’re guilty and you get what you deserve. And then there’s how normal people feel about people who are accused of crimes, convicted, and imprisoned - a lot of people are typically offended that prisoners get schooling “on our dime”, even though education reduces the chances of them being repeat offenders.

It’s not difficult. You change the rules and come down hard on any prison personnel who disregard those rules.

191
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:15:29pm

re: #177 Sionainn

I don’t believe that. It is not difficult to start treating prisoners like human beings, providing medical attention when they need it. That’s not hard!

Ask the kids being held at Riker’s Island in NYC about how hard it is to be treated like a human being.

Page 4
I.
SUMMARY OF FINDINGS
We find that the New York City Department
of Correction systematically has failed to protect adolescent inmates from harm in violation of the Eighth Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution. This harm is the result of the repeated use of excessive and unnecessary force by correction officers against adolescent inmates, as well as high levels of inmate-on-inmate violence.
We have made the following specific factual determinations:

*force is used against adolescents at an alarming rate and violent inmate-on-inmate fights and assaults are commonplace, resulting in a striking number of serious injuries;

*correction officers resort to “headshots,” or blows to an inmate’s head or facial area, too frequently;

*force is used as punishment or retribution;

*force is used in response to inmates’ verbal altercations with officers;

*use of force by specialized response teams within the jails is particularly brutal;

*correction officers attempt to justify use of force by yelling “stop resisting” even when the adolescent has been completely subdued or was never resisting in the first place;

*and use of force is particularly common in areas without video surveillance cameras.

Furthermore, we identified the following systemic deficiencies that contribute to, exacerbate, and indeed are largely responsible for the excessive and unnecessary use of force by DOC staff. Many of these systemic deficiencies also lead to the high levels of inmate violence.
These deficiencies include:

inadequate reporting by staff of the use of force, including false reporting; inadequate investigations into the use of force; inadequate staff discipline for inappropriate use of force; an inadequate classification system for adolescent inmates; an inadequate inmate grievance system; inadequate supervision of inmates by staff; inadequate training both on use of force and on managing adolescents; and general failures by management to adequately address the extraordinarily high levels of violence perpetrated against and among the adolescent population.


Finally, DOC’s use of prolonged punitive segregation for adolescent inmates is excessive and inappropriate.

The report specifically mentions numerous findings of retaliation from guards to prisoners who reported to medical personnel for treatment after being beaten. “Keep it down” was the common (and universally known) phrase for refusing medical aid after being beaten, kicked or otherwise harmed by guards in out-of-camera areas where prisoners could be tortured at will.

192
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:15:46pm

re: #189 Sionainn

Why does one need new tires if the air was simply let out of them?

Because their dumb ass drove on the flat instead of calling AAA. Probably needs a new wheel now too.

193
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:16:01pm

re: #179 WhatEVs

The bigger question is how much it will cost US if he strokes out?

Nothing. They will take his estate for the back fees.

194
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:17:10pm

re: #193 Aunty Entity Dragon

Nothing. They will take his estate for the back fees.

He doesn’t have an estate. He transferred everything to his wife many years ago. Going after it would be a steep uphill battle.

195
gocart mozart  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:17:26pm

re: #180 blueraven

196
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:17:48pm

re: #191 Aunty Entity Dragon

Ask the kids being held at Riker’s Island in NYC about how hard it is to be treated like a human being.

The report specifically mentions numerous findings of retaliation from guards to prisoners who reported to medical personnel for treatment after being beaten. “Keep it down” was the common (and universally known) phrase for refusing medical aid after being beaten, kicked or otherwise harmed by guards in out-of-camera areas where prisoners could be tortured at will.

It’s sickening and it needs to stop. Now.

197
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:17:53pm

re: #135 Nyet

Question: have any one the wingnut candidates said anything about the Bundy arrest?

Also, have there been any notable headsplosions?

It has aggravated an existing split in two of the more obvious Threeper Internet tribes. IT will get worse as the story of patriot no-shows in response to the distress calls develops.

198
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:18:00pm

re: #190 Sionainn

It’s not difficult. You change the rules and come down hard on any prison personnel who disregard those rules.

Is it that easy? Ask NYC how that has worked out when the prison guard union and active resistance makes it impossible to actually implement those policies and also protects abusive guards.

Moreover, cue the attack ads on how you want to coddle criminals.

199
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:18:31pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

He doesn’t have an estate. He transferred everything to his wife many years ago. Going after it would be a steep uphill battle.

One word:

RICO.

200
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:19:01pm

re: #173 S’latch

Who is this Bernie Sanders, guy, anyway? I never heard of him. He’s not for civil rights. Never was for civil rights. He’s a big phony.

Surefire strategy to get your candidate votes, bring the same condescending attitude shown by his overzealous supporters on Twitter here. No one in this thread has said anything remotely like that. Whatever negatives have been said are pretty much being exemplified by your own clueless comment. Thanks.

201
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:19:07pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

It has aggravated an existing split in two of the more obvious Threeper Internet tribes. IT will get worse as the story of patriot no-shows in response to the distress calls develops.

The most obvious defense mechanism: everything a false flag for entrapment of patriots, good thing we didn’t go!

202
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:19:13pm

re: #185 Backwoods_Sleuth

these people…

Blaine Cooper’s wife suggests the FBI let the air out of her tires

The FBI has let the air out of a good bit of her precious movement.

203
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:19:14pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

He doesn’t have an estate. He transferred everything to his wife many years ago. Going after it would be a steep uphill battle.

Isn’t Nevada a community property state?

204
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:21:00pm

re: #198 Aunty Entity Dragon

Is it that easy? Ask NYC how that has worked out when the prison guard union and active resistance makes it impossible to actually implement those policies and also protects abusive guards.

Moreover, cue the attack ads on how you want to coddle criminals.

I don’t care about attack ads. I don’t care what uncivilized bastards think about anything. Unions are supposed to protect their members, but not if their members are in the wrong. I’m simply pissed about everything right now.

205
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:21:02pm

re: #189 Sionainn

Why does one need new tires if the air was simply let out of them?

Because they need new tires and want someone else to pay for them.

206
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:02pm

I feel like we’re talking past each other on a lot of this prison health care stuff. From my perspective I don’t see what making sure we know the cynical current reality actually advances. I know that the system is shit and full of fucked up indifference. My point is that there is no excuse for this at all, and ignoring the ethical debate it can’t even be defended on a purely by the numbers cost benefit analysis.

207
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:13pm

re: #201 Nyet

The most obvious defense mechanism: everything a false flag for entrapment of patriots, good thing we didn’t go!

All the Threepers are feds.

208
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:16pm

re: #196 Sionainn

It’s sickening and it needs to stop. Now.

They have not yet found a way to actually stop the guards. The guards have a union and they have public opinion in most cases and they know it. People simply do not care if “thugs” get beaten, kicked and loose a kidney or a spleen in jail. The moral failing belongs to all of us.

Anyway, it requires a total house cleaning. Fire everybody, have temporary help come in (even from national guard MP’s) and bring in new guards with fresh training. The barrel is rotten and needs to be replaced.

209
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:23pm

re: #200 ausador

Surefire strategy to get your candidate votes, bring the same condescending attitude shown by his overzealous supporters on Twitter here. No one in this thread has said anything remotely like that. Whatever negatives have been said are pretty much being exemplified by your own clueless comment. Thanks.

I wasn’t sure if that was supposed to be a sarcastic remark from S’latch or what. If it was actually meant the way it was said, yeah, go the fuck away.

210
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:37pm

re: #203 calochortus

Isn’t Nevada a community property state?

Yep.

211
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:22:41pm

re: #203 calochortus

Isn’t Nevada a community property state?

It is, but like most other community property states (I believe) you can opt out of community property through pre- and post-nuptial agreements. And there are a few other ways to do it, such as creating a non-revocable trust or corporation owned as separate property.

212
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:23:37pm

re: #199 Aunty Entity Dragon

One word:

RICO.

technically, that’s four (or five) words.

213
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:24:24pm

re: #211 KGxvi

It is, but like most other community property states (I believe) you can opt out of community property through pre- and post-nuptial agreements. And there are a few other ways to do it, such as creating a non-revocable trust or corporation owned as separate property.

You can, but I’m not sure that it would be valid if the intent was to shield those assets from legal claims. (Not a lawyer.)

214
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:24:33pm

re: #193 Aunty Entity Dragon

Nothing. They will take his estate for the back fees.

I’m talking about the next McVeigh. That’s the cost I was referring to.

215
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:24:56pm

re: #212 KGxvi

technically, that’s four (or five) words.

It is still the nuclear weapon of getting around property transfers that avoid attachment in criminal cases.

216
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:25:03pm

re: #208 Aunty Entity Dragon

They have not yet found a way to actually stop the guards. The guards have a union and they have public opinion in most cases and they know it. people simply do not care if “thugs” get beaten, kicked and loose a kidney or a spleen in jail. The moral failing belongs to all of us.

Anyway, it requires a total house cleaning. Fire everybody, have temporary help come in (even from national guard MP’s) and bring in new guards with fresh training. The barrel is rotten and needs to be replaced.

We federalized a bunch of reservist prison guards/MPs, and got Abu Ghraib.

217
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:25:33pm

re: #214 WhatEVs

I’m talking about the next McVeigh. That’s the cost I was referring to.

Yeah, there is always that.

218
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:26:50pm

re: #194 goddamnedfrank

He doesn’t have an estate. He transferred everything to his wife many years ago. Going after it would be a steep uphill battle.

Not if he owed $$ to the gov when he transferred it. You can’t quit claim property to get out of paying the gov. Unless something changed.

It’s like paying off some creditors within X days of filing bankruptcy. You can’t do that. I think this would be similar.

But I’m not an attorney.

219
451_Montag  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:26:52pm

re: #180 blueraven

The Hill. Journalism.

[Embedded content]

Can’t they just plug a spare in?

220
Barefoot Grin  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:27:31pm

re: #18 stpaulbear

Let’s get Michael Savage’s opinion on Bernie (to put this in perspective):

Edit: I’ll vote for any democrat to keep these assholes away from power.

This would make a great movie!

221
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:27:59pm

re: #216 Decatur Deb

We federalized a bunch of reservist prison guards/MPs, and got Abu Grhaib.

Different situation and again, they were led into that by CIA contractors (who never were held accountable. In fact nobody above E-5 was ever charged)

Bring in fresh faces with no relation to the current power structure and deal as needed until you can get new guards in from the academy with serious oversight.

222
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:28:08pm

re: #213 calochortus

You can, but I’m not sure that it would be valid if the intent was to shield those assets from legal claims. (Not a lawyer.)

Maybe, I don’t know the finer points of that area of the law. But it would be hard to prove because most all of the writings and communications that would be evidence in such a scheme would be privileged, either as attorney-client, attorney work product, or marital privilege. If the prosecution comes and says the timing is fishy, all they have to come back with is “I have a medical condition and wanted to make sure my estate was in order in the event the worst happened.”

223
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:30:09pm
224
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:30:25pm

re: #183 WhatEVs

Damn. Now I have the munchies.

Frozen Charleston Chew bars are far superior to frozen Twix. For one thing you can just smack them onto a countertop to shatter them into small pieces before opening the wrapper. ;)

225
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:31:18pm

re: #221 Aunty Entity Dragon

Different situation and again, they were led into that by CIA contractors (who never were held accountable. In fact nobody above E-5 was ever charged)

Bring in fresh faces with no relation to the current power structure and deal as needed until you can get new guards in from the academy with serious oversight.

A better approach, done parallel to fixing the guard force, is to decriminalize all the silly shit that puts kids into the overloaded system. Alabama prisons are running more than 50% over design capacity. It’s time to go after the school-to-prison pipeline.

226
calochortus  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:32:36pm

re: #222 KGxvi

In any event, if what we are discussing is whether assets can be seized to pay back grazing fees, wouldn’t the wife then be responsible for the fees, etc. if she is the owner? They wouldn’t need to get it from Cliven, they’d get it from Mrs. Bundy.

227
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:32:54pm

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

Just one day before the Sonderkommando revolt at Baby Yar…

228
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:33:09pm

re: #222 KGxvi

Maybe, I don’t know the finer points of that area of the law. But it would be hard to prove because most all of the writings and communications that would be evidence in such a scheme would be privileged, either as attorney-client, attorney work product, or marital privilege. If the prosecution comes and says the timing is fishy, all they have to come back with is “I have a medical condition and wanted to make sure my estate was in order in the event the worst happened.”

I think RICO inverts all of that and the burden of proof goes onto the property owner to show that criminal attachment was never there in the first place. Of course, that is nearly impossible even for most people who work a normal job. Moreover, with all your assets frozen, how do you post the bond to contest as well as hire a lawyer?

RICO is what put the mob out of business and it has been used on a lot of other stuff since then. It stacks the deck for the government and flat refuses to let the other side even have any cards at all. Of course, IANAL and all the usual caveats apply.

229
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:33:43pm

re: #225 Decatur Deb

A better approach, done parallel to fixing the guard force, is to decriminalize all the silly shit that puts kids into the overloaded system. Alabama prisons are running more than 50% over design capacity. It’s time to go after the school-to-prison pipeline.

Yep.

230
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:34:19pm

re: #111 KGxvi

He can definitely afford one… but no sane attorney is going to take his case, not if they bother to do a PACER search for his prior cases.

Defense attorneys expect to be paid. The odds of collecting a dime from Cliven are around a million to one.

231
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:34:26pm

re: #222 KGxvi

Maybe, I don’t know the finer points of that area of the law. But it would be hard to prove because most all of the writings and communications that would be evidence in such a scheme would be privileged, either as attorney-client, attorney work product, or marital privilege. If the prosecution comes and says the timing is fishy, all they have to come back with is “I have a medical condition and wanted to make sure my estate was in order in the event the worst happened.”

Just asking for my own mental file, you are a lawyer, yes? (I get that this is not your area, I just try to have some idea of various Lizards’ backgrounds so I know how to interpret comments.)

232
William Lewis  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:35:41pm

re: #214 WhatEVs

I’m talking about the next McVeigh. That’s the cost I was referring to.

Will happen as a result of simply arresting their heroic freaks. Martyrdom cookies only make them happier to be murderous thugs.

233
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:36:19pm

re: #224 ausador

Frozen Charleston Chew bars are far superior to frozen Twix. For one thing you can just smack them onto a countertop to shatter them into small pieces before opening the wrapper. ;)

I love Twix. I’m a Cookie Monster.

234
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:36:35pm

Related to the asset discussion:

235
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:36:53pm

re: #211 KGxvi

It is, but like most other community property states (I believe) you can opt out of community property through pre- and post-nuptial agreements. And there are a few other ways to do it, such as creating a non-revocable trust or corporation owned as separate property.

Looks like they put the property under a couple of the kids’ names: BUNDY REVOCABLE TRUST
BUNDY DAVID A & BODEL TRS

Done in 1994.

236
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:38:12pm

re: #234 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Related to the asset discussion:

[Embedded content]

oops.

237
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:38:39pm

If Cliven and the little Bundys want to go to trial on a bunch of felonies with the help of an overworked, underpaid young PD, I’m cool with that.

238
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:39:01pm

re: #230 Skip Intro

Defense attorneys expect to be paid. The odds of collecting a dime from Cliven are around a million to one.

Defense attorneys get paid up front and more when that runs out. They know many of their clients are deadbeats.

239
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:39:01pm

re: #235 Sionainn

Looks like they put the property under a couple of the kids’ names: BUNDY REVOCABLE TRUST
BUNDY DAVID A & BODEL TRS

At the end of the day, the ranch will be gone. The Feds will take it one way or another and collect those fees.

240
Sionainn  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:42:19pm

re: #235 Sionainn

Looks like they put the property under a couple of the kids’ names: BUNDY REVOCABLE TRUST
BUNDY DAVID A & BODEL TRS

Done in 1994.

And what happened in 1994? Bundy never renewed and canceled his permit.

241
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:42:47pm

And here we go:

Under RICO, a person who has committed “at least two acts of racketeering activity” drawn from a list of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering if such acts are related in one of four specified ways to an “enterprise”. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of “racketeering activity.”

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he or she has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant’s assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond.

If they go this route…all the cattle and everything in the bank accounts gets locked up…no matter whose name it is in.

242
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:44:12pm

re: #234 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Related to the asset discussion:

[Embedded content]

I thought his attorney is the one who claims his blood pressure is high. Beginning to sound a lot like Bullshit Mountain to me.

243
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:44:21pm

From the link:

Iniguez told the court that Bundy is in need of his prescription medication, noting that when he arrived at the downtown jail in Portland Wednesday night his blood pressure was dangerously high, recorded at 188 over 122.

The assistant federal public defender asked the judge if U.S. marshals could locate the carry-on bag Bundy had traveled to Portland with that held the medication. Iniguez said he understood that deputy marshals had looked for the medication but didn’t find it, and asked that they look again.

The magistrate judge urged the defendant to go through the “normal course” of getting evaluated by medical staff in the jail. The U.S. Marshals usually separate the medication that defendants have on them once they are booked into custody, Stewart said.

244
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:44:22pm

re: #241 Aunty Entity Dragon

And here we go:

If they go this route…all the cattle and everything in the bank accounts gets locked up…no matter whose name it is in.

But that’s only true in a fringey admiralty court.

245
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:45:25pm

re: #242 Skip Intro

I thought his attorney is the one who claims his blood pressure is high. Beginning to sound a lot like Bullshit Mountain to me.

He may have a temporary one for today’s hearings.

246
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:45:29pm

re: #238 WhatEVs

Defense attorneys get paid up front and more when that runs out. They know many of their clients are deadbeats.

That explains why deadbeat Cliven expects to get a free one paid for by the government he doesn’t recognize.

247
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:45:56pm

re: #245 klys (maker of Silmarils)

He may have a temporary one for today’s hearings.

It is a temporary one.

248
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:46:25pm

I’m in need of cuteness.

249
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:48:32pm

It looks like the only fast way to get meds to Bundy is to issue fresh ones—his seem lost, and I doubt they would bring steet pills into a jail w/o analysis.

250
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:49:24pm

I think there’s a good reason why people put in jail don’t automatically get personal possession of all of the drugs they were carrying when arrested.

Cliven will get his pills from the prison dispensary, and then he will refuse to take them unless he’s immediately released.

251
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:49:29pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m in need of cuteness.

[Embedded content]

Your argument is now invalid.

252
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:50:19pm

re: #249 Decatur Deb

It looks like the only fast way to get meds to Bundy is to issue fresh ones—his seem lost, and I doubt they would bring steet pills into a jail w/o analysis.

Exactly.

253
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:50:26pm

Cliven went to fly
Portland led to the new war
The SWAT team said “no”

254
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:50:52pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

255
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:52:23pm

re: #254 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

huh,huh - Smart as a fox, my ass!
//////

256
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:53:03pm

re: #255 Blind Frog Belly White

huh,huh - Smart as a fox, my ass!
//////

He’s just confirming through multiple observations that his experience is consistent before he goes to publish!

257
Decatur Deb  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:54:13pm

re: #256 klys (maker of Silmarils)

He’s just confirming through multiple observations that his experience is consistent before he goes to publish!

That’s a dildo-sniffing fox that LE brought into the refuge clean-up. He’s working double shifts, poor guy.

258
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:57:04pm

BBL

259
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:57:16pm
260
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:58:43pm

re: #254 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

I didn’t know foxes behaved like that. They’re like polar bears trying to break through the ice to get to a seal.

261
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 11, 2016 • 3:59:28pm

SO, after all the Sturm und Drang with my new Kick Ass WorkStation the other day, I’m finally using it to do what it was bought for - Next Gen Sequencing alignments. It’s been using about 50% of the 64GB of RAM, and up to 90% of the 2 multicore Xeon processors. Running MUCH faster than the old one!

And I won’t need a space heater for my office during the next cold snap!

262
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:00:32pm

re: #260 WhatEVs

I didn’t know foxes behaved like that. They’re like polar bears trying to break through the ice to get to a seal.

You see it in the winter episode of the seasons of Yellowstone documentary. Hunting small mammals under the snow.

(…don’t judge. >.>)

263
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:00:48pm

re: #261 Blind Frog Belly White

SO, after all the Sturm und Drang with my new Kick Ass WorkStation the other day, I’m finally using it to do what it was bought for - Next Gen Sequencing alignments. It’s been using about 50% of the 64GB of RAM, and up to 90% of the 2 multicore Xeon processors. Running MUCH faster than the old one!

And I won’t need a space heater for my office during the next cold snap!

But the next heat wave, well…

264
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:06:36pm

re: #263 klys (maker of Silmarils)

But the next heat wave, well…

Funny you should say that, because until last fall, the AC portion of our HVAC system was increasingly nonfunctional. Fortunately (or un), because we’re in South City, we rarely need much cooling. But we had a couple 4 and 5 day heatwaves, and by mid afternoon on the 3rd day, some of the labs upstairs were close to 100 degrees.

265
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:08:16pm

re: #228 Aunty Entity Dragon

I think RICO inverts all of that and the burden of proof goes onto the property owner to show that criminal attachment was never there in the first place. Of course, that is nearly impossible even for most people who work a normal job. Moreover, with all your assets frozen, how do you post the bond to contest as well as hire a lawyer?

RICO is what put the mob out of business and it has been used on a lot of other stuff since then. It stacks the deck for the government and flat refuses to let the other side even have any cards at all. Of course, IANAL and all the usual caveats apply.

I don’t know the details about how RICO works, but I’m sure its powerful enough to undercut the excuse made after the 2008 crash that there wasn’t any way to legally go after the banks.

Ample legal tools were available. The political will to act is what was missing.

266
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:08:20pm

Again…
That photo of “Bernie” talking to the sit in protestors over student housing discrimination as their leader. The one used on his campaign site and promotional video, it isn’t him. That was Bruce Rappaport who died in 2006, his campaign knows it isn’t him, but sees no need to change their images or captions.

Don’t get me wrong, he was there and he was a co-leader of the sit in, that is all well documented. The part I object to is using a photo he had to know wasn’t of him in his promotions.

267
gocart mozart  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:09:54pm
268
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:14:04pm

re: #266 ausador

Again…
That photo of “Bernie” talking to the sit in protestors over student housing discrimination as their leader. The one used on his campaign site and promotional video, it isn’t him. That was Bruce Rappaport who died in 2006, his campaign knows it isn’t him, but sees no need to change their images or captions.

Don’t get me wrong, he was there and he was a co-leader of the sit in, that is all well documented. The part I object to is using a photo he had to know wasn’t of him in his promotions.

[Embedded content]

This is what gets me about the Sanders campaign, the screams of “dishonesty” and “lies” regularly slung at Hillary when the man’s campaign/supporters perpetuate lies about him to boost his record. If his record is solid, then he doesn’t need to engage in this shit. And if it isn’t, then he’s as guilty of fraud as he’s accused the Clinton campaign of being.

269
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:14:05pm

re: #266 ausador

Again…
That photo of “Bernie” talking to the sit in protestors over student housing discrimination as their leader. The one used on his campaign site and promotional video, it isn’t him. That was Bruce Rappaport who died in 2006, his campaign knows it isn’t him, but sees no need to change their images or captions.

Don’t get me wrong, he was there and he was a co-leader of the sit in, that is all well documented. The part I object to is using a photo he had to know wasn’t of him in his promotions.

[Embedded content]

“I’m Not Rappaport”

270
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:15:27pm

re: #266 ausador

Again…
That photo of “Bernie” talking to the sit in protestors over student housing discrimination as their leader. The one used on his campaign site and promotional video, it isn’t him. That was Bruce Rappaport who died in 2006, his campaign knows it isn’t him, but sees no need to change their images or captions.

Don’t get me wrong, he was there and he was a co-leader of the sit in, that is all well documented. The part I object to is using a photo he had to know wasn’t of him in his promotions.

[Embedded content]

I just want to know how it would be responded if Clinton was using ads of a photo that they weren’t certain was here. Again it shows why Bernie is not any different from a typical politician. Really if I were Rappaport’s family and friends, I’d be pretty upset about this. You’re right. He was there and deserves a lot of credit for what he did do but it’s stil lwrong.

271
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:16:27pm

re: #268 Targetpractice

This is what gets me about the Sanders campaign, the screams of “dishonesty” and “lies” regularly slung at Hillary when the man’s campaign/supporters perpetuate lies about him to boost his record. If his record is solid, then he doesn’t need to engage in this shit. And if it isn’t, then he’s as guilty of fraud as he’s accused the Clinton campaign of being.

Did you see the comments. Tons of crap. And I know damn well if Clinton had done this, they’d be furious and calling it a typical Hillary move.

272
gocart mozart  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:18:59pm
273
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:19:35pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

It’s his staff. Bernie’s in over his head on this one.

274
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:21:30pm

re: #273 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

It’s his staff. Bernie’s in over his head on this one.

True the buck stops here though. Listen I don’t mind Bernie acting like a politician but I don’t like the idea that Bernie is pure as snow and Clinton is the ultimate opportunist. It reduces these two individuals to caricatures of what they really are.

275
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:21:38pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

Did you see the comments. Tons of crap. And I know damn well if Clinton had done this, they’d be furious and calling it a typical Hillary move.

How do you not know whether or not it is you in the picture, especially when you knew the person who is in it?

Doesn’t even begin to pass the smell test. :(

276
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:22:00pm

Bernie is an ok guy (although I’ve, over the last few weeks, lost a lot of respect I had for him) but some of his supporters just suck.

277
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:22:35pm

re: #260 WhatEVs

Oh, yeah they do. I was visiting friends up in Colorado and paid a visit to a wolf preserve-just before we got in to the place I saw a fox do exactly that behavior-snatched himself a nice little snack. And it wasn’t winter, either.

278
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:22:49pm

re: #273 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

It’s his staff. Bernie’s in over his head on this one.

And that was the reason give for the infamous “can’t be progressive and moderate” tweet, that it was somebody on his staff. Man’s beginning to develop the classic problem found in politics of defending himself either as oblivious or incompetent. If his staff is doing this without his direction, then he can’t control them and that doesn’t speak well to his leadership ability. If his staff is doing it at his direction or think that he’d approve, then it might as well be him doing it.

279
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:23:25pm

re: #275 ausador

How do you not know whether or not it is you in the picture, especially when you knew the person who is in it?

Doesn’t even begin to pass the smell test. :(

I can see not being sure but if I wasn’t sure of something, I definitely wouldn’t put it in a campaign ad. Again that’s something I know if the shoe had been on the other foot, Clinton and let me emphasize this would rightfully be called out for.

280
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:26:04pm

re: #276 WhatEVs

Bernie is an ok guy (although I’ve, over the last few weeks, lost a lot of respect I had for him) but some of his supporters just suck.

The condescending crap drives me nuts and the false narrative. Promote your guy all you want, that’s grand but do NOT tell me I’m not a real progressive because I’m 1) not sold on your guy and 2) Use a different calculus in deciding who I want to be president. I’m not even committed to Hillary FWIW but the lack of understanding of nuance by some of his supporters drives me nuts. These are individuals. Bernie is not a caricature progressive knight and Hillary isn’t the centrist witch crushing progressive ideals so she can look good.

281
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:27:02pm

re: #278 Targetpractice

And that was the reason give for the infamous “can’t be progressive and moderate” tweet, that it was somebody on his staff. Man’s beginning to develop the classic problem found in politics of defending himself either as oblivious or incompetent. If his staff is doing this without his direction, then he can’t control them and that doesn’t speak well to his leadership ability. If his staff is doing it at his direction or think that he’d approve, then it might as well be him doing it.

Your Ron Paul analogy works again unfortunately. I remember Paul trying to pin the blame on the racist stuff that his newsletter had on staff. Ultimately, this is his campaign and he needs to look over what goes in it.

282
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:27:17pm

Not Bernie…

283
petesh  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:28:29pm

re: #280 HappyWarrior

Someone gave me a Bernie bumpersticker a while back but every time I get ready to put it on my car (taped to the back window) something else happens. It’s getting kind of dusty.

284
petesh  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:29:36pm

re: #282 ausador

Not Bernie…

[Embedded content]

Um, which one is not Bernie? [Just teeing it up for ya]

285
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:29:45pm

re: #276 WhatEVs

Bernie is an ok guy (although I’ve, over the last few weeks, lost a lot of respect I had for him) but some of his supporters just suck.

Yeah, that’s my take too. I’ve listened to Bernie for years on different radio shows and he’s always come across as a good guy. I just think his staff is riding the anger train, and doing him a disservice.

I think he’s in over his head on this whole thing.

286
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:31:35pm

re: #283 petesh

Someone gave me a Bernie bumpersticker a while back but every time I get ready to put it on my car (taped to the back window) something else happens. It’s getting kind of dusty.

An apt metaphor for where I’m at right now. I want to like Bernie, I certainly like some of the ideas he’s expressed. But it seems every other day, his campaign says something or does something that convinces me that he’s not interested in anything but my vote. I’m not convinced he’s looking to lead a revolution, but I’m becoming more convinced by the day that he’s willing to go along with that illusion if it gets him to the White House.

287
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:31:56pm
288
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:32:10pm

re: #283 petesh

Someone gave me a Bernie bumpersticker a while back but every time I get ready to put it on my car (taped to the back window) something else happens. It’s getting kind of dusty.

I want to be able to support him too. I love so much of what he stands for. More affordable higher ed, right on, etc but I also think he’s so much an all or nothing type and that really isn’t what I want in a president. I do see the appeal of course. I just think so many of his diehards and I include my own brothers and friends in this don’t appreciate how hard it will be to get a lot of that past and I am fully aware Clinton won’t have a picnic but I feel that she’s shown a much better understanding of how to get legislation passed. I’m such an odd man in my generation for looking it like that I guess. I just fear they’re setting themselves up for massive disillusionment if Bernie is ever elected and has to compromise or worse completely give up on an initiative.I’d love to have education affordable for all but I also think we need to understand that it won’t happen with one swoop of the pen.

289
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:32:48pm

Remember this asshole?

290
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:33:18pm

re: #289 Skip Intro

Remember this asshole?

[Embedded content]

Yes unfortunately. I wish I didn’t but yes.

291
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:33:49pm

re: #280 HappyWarrior

Hillary isn’t the centrist witch crushing progressive ideals so she can look good.

Naw…that’s me! :)

True story: In my capstone writing class on public school policies at Guilford College, I was the lone 40 something year old in class. The next oldest student was in her late 20’s at most. I was surrounded by young, excited and very bright and committed typical Guilford liberal kids who wanted to go and change all those bad things we were learning about. I joked that I was the dark spider lurking at the back of the room waiting to strangle their youthful optimism.

292
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:34:23pm

re: #278 Targetpractice

Oh, I agree with you. If Sanders is really behind some of the dumb shit the campaign has been doing then boo on him. I think he’s incompetent when it comes to controlling his message.

293
Bubblehead II  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:34:46pm

re: #261 Blind Frog Belly White

SO, after all the Sturm und Drang with my new Kick Ass WorkStation the other day, I’m finally using it to do what it was bought for - Next Gen Sequencing alignments. It’s been using about 50% of the 64GB of RAM, and up to 90% of the 2 multicore Xeon processors. Running MUCH faster than the old one!

And I won’t need a space heater for my office during the next cold snap!

Just got done putting in the order to upgrade my ADSL internet to VDSL (short copper run to a fiber optic interface). Will be interesting to see if the 40 mbps makes a difference in streaming video. Also upgrading the home network to 1 gbps NICS and switches. If things work out as I hope they will, Dish Network is going to be losing a cusomer.

294
ausador  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:35:52pm

re: #284 petesh

Um, which one is not Bernie? [Just teeing it up for ya]

The one standing, the one still identified as Bernie at his site and on his YouTube video. :p

295
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:36:28pm

Rage Furby is drooling just thinking about getting photographed with this prick.

296
Nature'sMasterpiece  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:36:38pm

I have nothing but respect and admiration for John Lewis but this statement means absolutely nothing to me. To think John Lewis would personally meet everyone that ever contributed to the Civil Rights fight during the 60’s is beyond arrogant. I would say try reading Link. It goes in detail of actual Clinton policies that had severe negative impact on people of color, some of which they have even agreed were bad policies. I would say actual policies should be more damaging of someone saying they didn’t get to meet someone 50 years ago.

297
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:36:46pm

re: #273 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

It’s his staff. Bernie’s in over his head on this one.

His staff, I’m increasingly convinced, is minor league. And that’s the kind of presidency we’d get from him.

298
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:37:07pm

re: #291 Aunty Entity Dragon

Naw…that’s me! :)

True story: In my capstone writing class on public school policies at Guilford College, I was the lone 40 something year old in class. The next oldest student was in her late 20’s at most. I was surrounded by young, excited and very bright and committed typical Guilford liberal kids who wanted to go and change all those bad things we were learning about. I joked that I was the dark spider lurking at the back of the room waiting to strangle their youthful optimism.

Hahaha one of the women in my creative writing class is in her early 60’s. She offers an unique insight into a lot of the stuff. I always enjoyed having older people like that in my classes since they bring an insight that the average student may not have due to their age and experiences. I’m actually probably among the older people in the class I imagine. Not the oldest obviously as i got at but up there. Certainly is a strange place to be after having mostly been younger my K-12 caerer.

299
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:37:09pm

Oh FFS…

Harry Reid now saying a contested convention is possible for the Dems

cnn.com

Harry…shut it.

300
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:39:30pm

re: #286 Targetpractice

An apt metaphor for where I’m at right now. I want to like Bernie, I certainly like some of the ideas he’s expressed. But it seems every other day, his campaign says something or does something that convinces me that he’s interested in anything but my vote. I’m not convinced he’s looking to lead a revolution, but I’m becoming more convinced by the day that he’s willing to go along with that illusion if it gets him to the White House.

That’s my take, as well. Which I have to say is disappointing.

People say Clinton solely wants power. I think she wants - and always has wanted - a better America.

Bernie, to me, is all platitudes and populous anger. For me, it’s reaching the insufferable stage.

301
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:40:45pm

re: #289 Skip Intro

Remember this asshole?

[Embedded content]

Speaking of insufferable.

302
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:40:57pm

re: #287 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

I’m enough of a cynic that I don’t think the guy will get any real time, and if he does it’ll end up being overturned on appeal. I’m ready to be surprised, but I rarely am anymore.

303
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:41:15pm

re: #296 Nature’sMasterpiece

He was just asked a question and he answered it. The end.

304
petesh  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:42:14pm

re: #288 HappyWarrior

Back in the paleolithic, we used to say cheerfully “Never trust anyone over 30” and I actually still think there is some truth in that, if you don’t take it literally. But then I think much the same of “All you need is love.”

305
Amory Blaine  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:42:39pm

Bundy could get an overworked, overstressed public defender.

306
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:43:26pm

re: #301 WhatEVs

Speaking of insufferable.

The thing is, I think he’d be doing everyone a favor by keeping a Kayne West album off of the market.

307
Jack Burton  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:43:31pm

re: #150 Nyet

Justin Amash ✔ @justinamash
I don’t agree w/ @BernieSanders on many things (especially economic), but at least he sounds real. @HillaryClinton sounds angry and elitist.
6:46 PM - 9 Feb 2016

It’s Operation Chaos: 2016 Edition. The BernieBots and Bros just don’t get it.

308
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:43:36pm

re: #296 Nature’sMasterpiece

Sry, not reading that Putin-loving rag.

309
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:43:48pm

re: #296 Nature’sMasterpiece

I have nothing but respect and admiration for John Lewis but this statement means absolutely nothing to me. To think John Lewis would personally meet everyone that ever contributed to the Civil Rights fight during the 60’s is beyond arrogant. I would say try reading Link. It goes in detail of actual Clinton policies that had severe negative impact on people of color, some of which they have even agreed were bad policies. I would say actual policies should be more damaging of someone saying they didn’t get to meet someone 50 years ago.

Which policies are we talking about here? Are we talking ones passed during the 90s when she was FLOTUS and thus her power to pass law began and ended with her ability to influence her husband and perhaps some Democrats in Congress? Better yet, are we talking that period between 1994 and 2000 when Republicans enjoyed control over Congress such that the best that Bill and Congressional Democrats could do was try to blunt the damage done?

310
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:44:12pm

re: #295 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

Rage Furby is drooling just thinking about getting photographed with this prick.

Pharma Bro has 10 million to blow on an album? I thought that after he was busted he is only a thousandaire.

311
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:44:50pm

re: #300 WhatEVs

That’s my take, as well. Which I have to say is disappointing.

People say Clinton solely wants power. I think she wants - and always has wanted - a better America.

Bernie, to me, is all platitudes and populous anger. For me, it’s reaching the insufferable stage.

Going after the plutocracy in the US is like going after the king in the old days —- you’d best have a solid plan for victory.

That’s the biggest thing I see as missing from the Sanders campaign. The critical step appears to be “and then a miracle happens here”. A Sanders flop (e.g., losing like McGovern did, or having a failed presidency like Carter) would be immensely damaging.

312
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:45:09pm

re: #295 Skip Intro

He wants to be hated. He’s like CCJ. Why would people seek out being widely despised? I’m missing something.

313
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:45:19pm

re: #304 petesh

Back in the paleolithic, we used to say cheerfully “Never trust anyone over 30” and I actually still think there is some truth in that, if you don’t take it literally. But then I think much the same of “All you need is love.”

I turn 30 next year. Eeeek. There was some wisdom to that heh but Timothy Leary was over 40 when he said that.

314
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:45:21pm

re: #300 WhatEVs

I mean, let’s get real: all those people want power. You need to be a yuuuge egomaniac to run for President of the US. That doesn’t mean they don’t also want to do good.

315
Shiplord Kirel  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:45:58pm

re: #295 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

Rage Furby is drooling just thinking about getting photographed with this prick.

AAARRRGGHHH! Just when you thought Smirk-Nostril couldn’t get any more detestable, here he is offering to spend Granny’s med-money to monopolize works of art and keep them away from the public. He could single-handedly revive Bolshevism. I hope Kanye West tells him to fuck off.

316
Amory Blaine  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:47:13pm

re: #295 Skip Intro

He can afford 10 million to be a dick, but his taxes are too high.

317
petesh  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:47:19pm

re: #296 Nature’sMasterpiece

Given who John Lewis was in the 1960s, it is in no way arrogant for him to think that he knew all the major players: he did. And someone asked him if he knew Sanders, and he didn’t. Deal with it.

318
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:47:36pm

re: #312 WhatEVs

He wants to be hated. He’s like CCJ. Why would people seek out being widely despised? I’m missing something.

He’s like Trump and Rage and Nugent and Zimmerman. He thinks he’s so superior to everyone else that he gets off on being despised.

319
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:48:44pm

re: #287 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Police assholes in NY on Thee Rant are freaking the fuck out and acting exactly how we thought they would:

onlineOnTheArm Unread Message #6 [url] [-]
avatar

Posts: 683

6 minutes ago
Every Police officer in Housing should refuse to do verticals, try do your job and go to jail….give the city what it wants, NOTHING…..I REPEAT GIVE THEM NOTHING….total B.S…..

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Quote
onlineTrueBlue Unread Message #7 [url] [-]

avatar

Posts: 10565

6 minutes ago

There should be a Job-Wide refusal to do any Vertical Patrols in the PJ’s….agreed.

Edited 1 time by TrueBlue 3 minutes ago.

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onlineotjkid Unread Message #8 [url] [-]

Posts: 3828

5 minutes ago
His lawyer was cok. Trying to say the gun went off on its own? How about a loud noise startled him and he instinctively pulled the trigger by accident.

Notice not one post (you can go see for yourself at Thee Rant. I won’t link since it is a known white supremacist site for NY cops) shows anybody giving a damn about an innocent kid who was gunned down in the dark for the crime of…using the stairs in his apartment building.

The NYC cops are actually demanding the right to shoot innocent people without regard or sanction.

320
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:48:44pm

re: #306 Skip Intro

The thing is, I think he’d be doing everyone a favor by keeping a Kayne West album off of the market.

For me, I couldn’t give less of a shit. I’m not a Kanye fan - at all. But lots of people are.

321
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:49:08pm

re: #299 Aunty Entity Dragon

Oh FFS…

Harry Reid now saying a contested convention is possible for the Dems

cnn.com

Harry…shut it.

Not going to happen.

322
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:49:21pm

re: #315 Shiplord Kirel

AAARRRGGHHH! Just when you thought Smirk-Nostril couldn’t get any more detestable, here he is offering to spend Granny’s med-money to monopolize works of art and keep them away from the public. He could single-handedly revive Bolshevism. I hope Kanye West tells him to fuck off.

Shkreli is merely a cancerous by-product of the ‘greed is good’ shit that has been pumped into US culture for decades.

He may unwittingly end up doing more good than harm by exposing ‘business as usual’ for the corrupt cesspit that it usually is.

323
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:49:22pm

re: #311 EPR-radar

Going after the plutocracy in the US is like going after the king in the old days —- you’d best have a solid plan for victory.

That’s the biggest thing I see as missing from the Sanders campaign. The critical step appears to be “and then a miracle happens here”. A Sanders flop (e.g., losing like McGovern did, or having a failed presidency like Carter) would be immensely damaging.

As Happy has noted, I keep referring to Sanders as the Dem Party’s Crazy Uncle Liberty and the bolded is the primary reason. The man’s plans begin and end with the idea that electing him will lead to this socialist revolution where the people rise up and begin throwing out the old plutocracy in favor of a Machiavellian prince who leads the country smartly and righteously. It’s not going to happen, he’s going to do or say things in the first two years that his fan club will seen as “betrayal” and watch as Democrats take it in the ass in the midterms, further cementing Republican control over Congress. Then 2020 comes and he’s out there, a man in his 80s and likely much worse off physically, trying to convince the youth of the nation to give him another shot.

We’ve seen this shit before, it led to two terms of Reagan and the beginning of the fleecing of the middle class. If we allow it again, we’re gonna be telling the next generation about the days when we had a middle class.

324
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:49:43pm

re: #312 WhatEVs

He wants to be hated. He’s like CCJ. Why would people seek out being widely despised? I’m missing something.

The feeling of power. He can hurt people and make them know that he hurt them.

325
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:51:21pm

re: #293 Bubblehead II

Hopefully your ILEC did a decent job of getting FTTN, and your twisted pair is good enough to handle the VDSL spec.

326
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:51:29pm

re: #324 Aunty Entity Dragon

The feeling of power. He can hurt people and make them know that he hurt them.

He’s also the poster boy for why taxes on people in his income bracket are way too low.

327
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:52:46pm
Going after the plutocracy in the US is like going after the king in the old days —- you’d best have a solid plan for victory.

Yeah, I’m not confident on Bernie’s aim. It’s a good thing to aim for, but you better have game to kill that sucker dead.

328
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:52:57pm

He was asked a question. That’s that. Anyhow. I think he may have made a little dig Sanders way because maybe he’s tired of hearing that Sanders was there and Clinton wasn’t while he can actually attest for the fact he knew both her and her husband during those years. Honestly, good on both of them for doing the work they both did. The Republican winner of the Iowa caucuses wished there were 100 Jesse Helms in the U.S Senate. Night and fucking day as far as I’m concerned. But the thing is I don’t think it’s right to hold Clinton’s husband record against her. I’d be interested to see how they voted together from 2001-08 when she entered Congress. I would wager their votes are awfully close. I’d also argue that Sanders has shown a lot of insensitivity on the gun issue, an issue that hits close to home to a lot of African-Americans in urban communities. If he’s going to hit Clinton for being tied to Wall Street, certainly legitimate to point out he ran with an NRA endorsement without a rebuke for many years while the NRA drummed up fears of minorities in their membership.

329
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:54:29pm

re: #327 gwangung

Yeah, I’m not confident on Bernie’s aim. It’s a good thing to aim for, but you better have game to kill that sucker dead.

I personally think plutocracy is just one issue. Okay yes economic inequality is a real problem but there’s all kinds of inequalities. Getting rid of economic inequality isn’t going to get rid of the hurdles I face as a man on the spectrum looking for work. It’s not going to stop the police from getting away with treating black people like crap. It’s not going to stop women from being denied the right to choose. Etc.

330
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:54:48pm

re: #312 WhatEVs

He wants to be hated. He’s like CCJ. Why would people seek out being widely despised? I’m missing something.

He’s a narcissist who wants attention and doesn’t distinguish between the positive and negative kind.

He also knows he’s in deep shit legally and is trying to burn through his assets in order to deprive the government of its ability to recoup any fines. If the government does seize assets like the Wu Tang album it won’t be able to auction them for nearly as much as he paid. It’s a kind of nihilistic scorched earth defensive financial warfare strategy.

331
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:55:01pm

re: #299 Aunty Entity Dragon

Oh FFS…

Harry Reid now saying a contested convention is possible for the Dems

cnn.com

Harry…shut it.

All things are probable, some just have a probability of zero.

If there was ever going to be a contested convention, it would have been in 2008.

332
Shiplord Kirel  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:55:03pm

re: #318 Skip Intro

He’s like Trump and Rage and Nugent and Zimmerman. He thinks he’s so superior to everyone else that he gets off on being despised.

It boosts their self-esteem, their sense of power and importance, to see that people revile them but are helpless to do anything about it. Many an arrogant French aristocrat probably felt the same way before they were carted off to the guillotine. You would think that Nostril-Smirk’s recent arrest would have provided some perspective but that is not how pathological egos work.

333
Pawn of the Oppressor  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:56:13pm

re: #295 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

Rage Furby is drooling just thinking about getting photographed with this prick.

Not that I give a rat fart about Kenya or whatever the fuck, but I think the solution is for the record people to say “We don’t legally have to consider offers from anybody under indictment for Federal crimes. GFY, :smiley face: “

334
gwangung  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:56:42pm

re: #328 HappyWarrior

I’d be interested to see how they voted together from 2001-08 when she entered Congress. I would wager their votes are awfully close.

Well, if you call 93% close….

335
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:56:48pm

re: #323 Targetpractice

As Happy has noted, I keep referring to Sanders as the Dem Party’s Crazy Uncle Liberty and the bolded is the primary reason. The man’s plans begin and end with the idea that electing him will lead to this socialist revolution where the people rise up and begin throwing out the old plutocracy in favor of a Machiavellian prince who leads the country smartly and righteously. It’s not going to happen, he’s going to do or say things in the first two years that his fan club will seen as “betrayal” and watch as Democrats take it in the ass in the midterms, further cementing Republican control over Congress. Then 2020 comes and he’s out there, a man in his 80s and likely much worse off physically, trying to convince the youth of the nation to give him another shot.

We’ve seen this shit before, it led to two terms of Reagan and the beginning of the fleecing of the middle class. If we allow it again, we’re gonna be telling the next generation about the days when we had a middle class.

His hero is Eugene Debs, a truly great American and man. The thing is though Bernie wants to go from A to Z. Now maybe this is where I’ve changed as I’ve gotten older but I’ want to get from A to B the best I can before I go to Z. I’m not against change. But I want change done right in a way that it lasts. I don;t want Bernie if elected to end up a totally ineffective president that will revive the right wing.

336
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:57:20pm

re: #333 Pawn of the Oppressor

Not that I give a rat fart about Kenya or whatever the fuck, but I think the solution is for the record people to say “We don’t legally have to consider offers from anybody under indictment for Federal crimes. GFY, :smiley face: “

I also highly doubt that the ‘board’ or whatever is going to delay releasing the album because of shitweasal’s proposal.

337
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:57:28pm

re: #334 gwangung

Well, if you call 93% close….

That’s overall. I meant on civil rights issues but I imagine there’s a lot of overlap given their overall close voting record.

338
Charles Johnson  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:57:39pm

About a half hour until the PBS/Facebook Democratic debate. We’ll have a live video feed for this one.

339
Nyet  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:57:52pm

re: #323 Targetpractice

His age being yet another important issue. But raise it and see the Berniebots complain about “ageism”.

340
Nature'sMasterpiece  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:58:12pm

re: #317 petesh

I would say Harry Belafonte was a “major player” during the Civil Rights movement and he seems to think Bernie’s record is worthy of an endorsement. Like I said John Lewis is a great man but to say he simply answered the question is pretty weak. He cut the person off mid question, he even mentioned sorry for cutting you off, and gave a statement. His statement was since he didn’t meet Bernie we should be suspect of Bernie’s record. Once again to think you would meet everyone involved in the Civil Rights struggle is beyond arrogant.

341
Bubblehead II  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:58:16pm

re: #312 WhatEVs

He wants to be hated. He’s like CCJ. Why would people seek out being widely despised? I’m missing something.

Fame/infamy. He wants to be remembered. It’s the only way he can obtain immortality. The body dies, but history lives on and he wants his name to be remembered for good or bad. But the best either one can expect is a a mention in the joke dept. at this stage.

342
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:58:53pm
343
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 4:59:23pm

re: #294 ausador

The one standing, the one still identified as Bernie at his site and on his YouTube video. :p

Do we have a name for the person standing? I’m asking because I’m mostly clueless about that picture. Is Sanders in there at all?

344
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:00:03pm

re: #339 Nyet

His age being yet another important issue. But raise it and see the Berniebots complain about “ageism”.

It is a real issue unfortunately. He’s already older than Reagan was in his second term. I hate to say it but it really comes off to me that so many of them want a progressive dream team and don’t understand how this works. The attacks I saw on Julian Castro when it was reported that the Dems were vetting him really bothered me. It’s like they don’t realize that we’re a party and ideology for all people not just progressive whites. I admire Sanders and Senator Warren(a name I often see suggested as his running mate) but man that would be a terrible ticket, that would be a fat steak served up to the RNC.

345
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:00:13pm

Seeing at Raw Story that Shitweasel has been hit with over 8 million in liens from the IRS for 2013 and 2014 taxes.

So much for the Kanye album.

346
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:01:05pm

re: #342 Skip Intro

I am sooooo stealing that.

347
WhatEVs  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:01:10pm

re: #324 Aunty Entity Dragon

The feeling of power. He can hurt people and make them know that he hurt them.

Wow. I’m … Uhm … I have nothing.

348
goddamnedfrank  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:02:54pm

re: #327 gwangung

Yeah, I’m not confident on Bernie’s aim. It’s a good thing to aim for, but you better have game to kill that sucker dead.

You also have to be prepared for what that will actually look like. Sander’s and his supporters are selling the idea that they can pull off some sort of bloodless version of the French Revolution. I’m not sanguine (double entendre fully intended) enough to believe in this eventuality. The kind of change he’s demanding will almost necessarily come with a massive social disruption and damaging consequences that he and his supporters blithely ignore.

349
Amory Blaine  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:03:10pm

They put a trailer close to the stage for the debaters, to prevent any bathroom “incidents”.

The guy in charge of the site for Thursday night’s Democratic presidential debate at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee has had a lot on his mind this week — from how to move a five-octave marimba that wouldn’t fit into an elevator, to whether single-digit temperatures could create another bathroom incident for Hillary Clinton, or perhaps Bernie Sanders this time.

The water in the external tank for the bathroom trailer placed just offstage for one of the candidates to use during commercial breaks will freeze below 10 degrees. The mercury, unfortunately, is expected to dip to 5 degrees Thursday night, said Randall Trumbull-Holper, director of facilities for the Peck School of the Arts.

The trailer is heated, but the water tank isn’t. Trumbull-Holper has it figured out, though: “If nothing else, we’ll find a heater and just point it at the tank.”

Welcome to Wisconsin!

350
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:04:15pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Wow. I’m … Uhm … I have nothing.

Never underestimate malevolence as a motivation. Unfortunately.

351
Charles Johnson  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:04:17pm
352
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:04:51pm

re: #346 Aunty Entity Dragon

I am sooooo stealing that.

The disturbing this is that the same cartoonist came up with this in 2014, and he was right on the money.

353
lawhawk  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:04:51pm

Akai Gurley’s killer was found guilty of manslaughter. This gets NYPD officers angry?

They should be angry that there are so many on the force who shouldn’t be - that a disproportionate number of excessive force cases are against a select few.

They should be angry that people who shouldn’t be on the force remain on the force.

Peter Liang, Gurley’s killer, didn’t follow procedure. He panicked.

And the result was a unarmed black man who was simply taking the stairs because the elevators were on the fritz.

This is the exception, not the rule in officer involved shootings. Far too few officers are held accountable when they kill. Liang is being held accountable.

Part of this is due to the fallout of the Garner case, but it’s also the realization that far too many people are killed by law enforcement every year - unarmed people, who are often and disproportionately minorities.

Reducing that death toll needs to be a priority. It means changing tactics and training. It means rooting out the bad cops who see excessive force or racial profiling as a right/privilege of being a cop, rather than something to be eliminated from law enforcement.

354
KGxvi  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:05:09pm

re: #231 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Just asking for my own mental file, you are a lawyer, yes? (I get that this is not your area, I just try to have some idea of various Lizards’ backgrounds so I know how to interpret comments.)

Yeah, I’m a lawyer. Mostly litigation, a bit of appellate work. I’ve done everything from employment law to real estate law (which I probably enjoyed the most), to personal injury and business litigation, worked both sides of the “v” including insurance defense. Though I’m trying to get out. I grew up in construction (the family business is still running) so I know about that kind of stuff too.

355
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:05:41pm

re: #348 goddamnedfrank

You also have to be prepared for what that will actually look like. Sander’s and his supporters are selling the idea that they can pull off some sort of bloodless version of the French Revolution. I’m not sanguine (double entendre fully intended) enough to believe in this eventuality. The kind of change he’s demanding will almost necessarily come with a massive social disruption and damaging consequences that he and his supporters blithely ignore.

I mean look at the freakouts we’ve seen with what Obama’s changed and Obama’s far less radical in his agenda than Sanders is. They also have to realize that nationalizing a lot of things will put some people out of work. It’s the other side of the Republicans who want to just privatize every last thing. I also don’t like how Bernie expects us to respond with if Republicans oppose his agenda. Take to the streets or something like that. Your job as President is also to be legislator in chief, it’s not fair or realistic to expect people to go out and protest everytime the Republicans act like childish assholes.

356
Bubblehead II  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:07:48pm

re: #325 Eric The Fruit Bat

Hopefully your ILEC did a decent job of getting FTTN, and your twisted pair is good enough to handle the VDSL spec.

???? About the only thing I understood there was twisted pair. I’ll be using CAT5E for in house cabling and 10/100/1000 switches . You lost me on the rest of the acronyms.

357
Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:08:04pm

re: #273 The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin

It’s his staff. Bernie’s in over his head on this one.

Not exactly a great excuse if you’re trying to be president.

358
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:08:58pm

re: #348 goddamnedfrank

You also have to be prepared for what that will actually look like. Sander’s and his supporters are selling the idea that they can pull off some sort of bloodless version of the French Revolution. I’m not sanguine (double entendre fully intended) enough to believe in this eventuality. The kind of change he’s demanding will almost necessarily come with a massive social disruption and damaging consequences that he and his supporters blithely ignore.

I think if elected, Sanders really would get the little talk from the powers that be that is so often the subject of speculation.

For example: “OK Mr. Sanders, you’ve had your fun on the campaign trail. Should you agitate from the Oval Office for any meaningful loosening of our grip on power, your presidency will end 5 minutes later. Here is a list of permissible reforms and a recommended timeline…”

359
Belafon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:09:07pm

re: #355 HappyWarrior

Your job as President is also to be legislator in chief, it’s not fair or realistic to expect people to go out and protest everytime the Republicans act like childish assholes.

I think it might be fair, but evidence from 2008-2012 is that it’s definitely not realistic to expect it.

360
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:09:17pm

re: #322 EPR-radar

361
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:09:23pm

re: #354 KGxvi

Yeah, I’m a lawyer. Mostly litigation, a bit of appellate work. I’ve done everything from employment law to real estate law (which I probably enjoyed the most), to personal injury and business litigation, worked both sides of the “v” including insurance defense. Though I’m trying to get out. I grew up in construction (the family business is still running) so I know about that kind of stuff too.

My circle of friends ended up surprisingly light on the lawyers, but mr. klys has balanced me out. There’s two law school professors in his.

362
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:09:49pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

Heh.

[Embedded content]

Video

That was all kinds of win :)

363
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:09:53pm

I’ll gladly vote for Bernie let me add that. I’ll gladly defend him against shitty rags like the National Review who liken democratic socialism to what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela or worse to Stalin or Mao. I’ll vote for him over any of the Republicans running. But I don’t have faith that he’s the best the Democratic Party can do. The presidency is so much more than issues. I want Bernie to show he understands the world beyond seeing the world being about economic inequalities which as I said above is a real issue but I also want him to understand that somethings do happen independent of economic inequalities. Rich black people get harassed by working class white police officers. Well to do women have their reproductive health threatened by Republican policies on choice. Wealthy gay people’s rights are opposed by less well off conservative Christians. Etc.

364
Tigger2  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:11:18pm
365
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:11:41pm

re: #359 Belafon

I think it might be fair, but evidence from 2008-2012 is that it’s definitely not realistic to expect it.

I am still pissed how few people voted in 2010. Granted I didn’t vote myself and I feel awful for not trying to find out how I could have voted from campus. Fortunately the Congressman in my college’s district retained his seat but a lot of other sane Democrats lost their seats to Tea Party assholes due to the base that gave Obama a legitimate mandate for real change not showing up.

366
CuriousLurker  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:12:38pm

Okay, I give up. There’s no way I’m gonna catch up.

Hey, did anyone post this yet?

367
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:13:29pm

re: #358 EPR-radar

I think if elected, Sanders really would get the little talk from the powers that be that is so often the subject of speculation.

For example: “OK Mr. Sanders, you’ve had your fun on the campaign trail. Should you agitate from the Oval Office for any meaningful loosening of our grip on power, your presidency will end 5 minutes later. Here is a list of permissible reforms and a recommended timeline…”

I want to know who his advisers are honestly. I want to have an idea who he’s going to be appointing to key agencies and cabinet department, who he’d consider for the USSC. I think even though his ideas are much more ambitious than Clinton’s are, they’re not as detailed either.

368
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:13:29pm

re: #348 goddamnedfrank

You also have to be prepared for what that will actually look like. Sander’s and his supporters are selling the idea that they can pull off some sort of bloodless version of the French Revolution. I’m not sanguine (double entendre fully intended) enough to believe in this eventuality. The kind of change he’s demanding will almost necessarily come with a massive social disruption and damaging consequences that he and his supporters blithely ignore.

I brought up to a Bernie fanatic the millions of jobs that would be lost if the insurance sector went bye-bye under Bernie’s proposal. His response, paraphrased, was “If those millions are rendered jobless, then it’s on the insurance companies and their corporate masters.” They absolutely refuse to consider any negative consequences of their little bloodless coup and think everybody whose lives will be turned upside down will welcome the change.

369
Whack-A-Mole  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:14:28pm

re: #364 Tigger2

I’d say fifth column would be appropriate, but maybe they’d prefer IIIrd column.

370
Skip Intro  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:14:51pm

re: #366 CuriousLurker

I’d go see it just to see Danny give the “Let me tell you about the Negro” lecture.

371
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:14:56pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

Heh.

[Embedded content]

Video

HURR HURR LIBRUL FOLK SINGERS!!!!1!!! REAL PATRIOTS LISSENS TO KID ROCK & TED NUGENT!!!1!!!!!

372
Targetpractice  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:15:23pm

re: #367 HappyWarrior

I want to know who his advisers are honestly. I want to have an idea who he’s going to be appointing to key agencies and cabinet department, who he’d consider for the USSC. I think even though his ideas are much more ambitious than Clinton’s are, they’re not as detailed either.

Bernie’s campaign so far seems to be operating under the Top Gear motto: “Ambitious, but rubbish.” He’s got a lot of good proposals, not idea how he’s going to make them happen, or how he’ll deal with the negative consequences. He’s a lot like Trump in how he responds to questions about the unforeseen consequences with an “We’ll deal with that when it happens” attitude.

373
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:15:44pm

re: #368 Targetpractice

I brought up to a Bernie fanatic the millions of jobs that would be lost if the insurance sector went bye-bye under Bernie’s proposal. His response, paraphrased, was “If those millions are rendered jobless, then it’s on the insurance companies and their corporate masters.” They absolutely refuse to consider any negative consequences of their little bloodless coup and think everybody whose lives will be turned upside down will welcome the change.

That’s frankly again like the Paul mindset of privatize it all except in this case it’s publicize it all. I don’t like alot of Wall Street, the insurance companies, etc either but they do employ millions of Americans. Again it seems to me this is about going to A to Z and forgetting the other 24 letters. As a liberal pragmatist, I want to go from point to point to make sure it’s effective as possible. That’s why I’m glad Obama got DADT repealed via the Congress rather than an EO that could easily be reversed if a Republican replaced him.

374
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:16:08pm

FUCK

375
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:17:18pm

re: #356 Bubblehead II

ILEC - Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier (vs. Competitive Local Exchange Carrier (CLEC)) - usually your former Bell Operating Company
FTTN - Fiber To The Node (vs. Fiber To The Premesis (FTTP, a la Verizon FIOS))

376
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:17:52pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

Heh.

[Embedded content]

The tune they used here is similar to a Canadian folk song called “Breakfast in Hell”
Slaid Cleaves: Breakfast In Hell

377
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:19:47pm

re: #340 Nature’sMasterpiece

The question matters, and I believe the question was oriented towards Sanders’ involvement with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, of which John Lewis did play a significant role in.

I have not, however, been able to find the exact text of the question, but that would explain why it prompted the answer it did.

Here’s an article that details what Sanders apparently did in the SNCC.

378
EPR-radar  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:20:28pm

re: #363 HappyWarrior

I’ll gladly vote for Bernie let me add that. I’ll gladly defend him against shitty rags like the National Review who liken democratic socialism to what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela or worse to Stalin or Mao. I’ll vote for him over any of the Republicans running. But I don’t have faith that he’s the best the Democratic Party can do. The presidency is so much more than issues. I want Bernie to show he understands the world beyond seeing the world being about economic inequalities which as I said above is a real issue but I also want him to understand that somethings do happen independent of economic inequalities. Rich black people get harassed by working class white police officers. Well to do women have their reproductive health threatened by Republican policies on choice. Wealthy gay people’s rights are opposed by less well off conservative Christians. Etc.

Some of these examples show how plutocracy has a further reach than expected. For example, well to do women do not have their freedom threatened by Republican policies on choice nearly as badly as poor women. They can go overseas or to another state if necessary, and these options are not available to the poor.

Wealthy gay people can insulate themselves pretty well from the bigotry of religious zealots.

I tend to agree with Sanders that plutocracy is the single biggest issue by a large margin, and that just about everything else feeds back into it. However, it is easy to come off as dismissive and doctrinaire if this argument is made poorly, which it often is.

379
HappyWarrior  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:24:21pm

re: #378 EPR-radar

Some of these examples show how plutocracy has a further reach than expected. For example, well to do women do not have their freedom threatened by Republican policies on choice nearly as badly as poor women. They can go overseas or to another state if necessary, and these options are not available to the poor.

Wealthy gay people can insulate themselves pretty well from the bigotry of religious zealots.

I tend to agree with Sanders that plutocracy is the single biggest issue by a large margin, and that just about everything else feeds back into it. However, it is easy to come off as dismissive and doctrinaire if this argument is made poorly, which it often is.

Oh no doubt about it. It’s alot easier to get around those issues if you’re well off. I just think he needs to see that it’s more than that.

380
BeachDem  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:26:45pm

re: #278 Targetpractice

And that was the reason give for the infamous “can’t be progressive and moderate” tweet, that it was somebody on his staff. Man’s beginning to develop the classic problem found in politics of defending himself either as oblivious or incompetent. If his staff is doing this without his direction, then he can’t control them and that doesn’t speak well to his leadership ability. If his staff is doing it at his direction or think that he’d approve, then it might as well be him doing it.

The more idiotic the event, the lower the level of staff becomes who perpetrated it (in the eyes and posts of Berniacs.) The data breach—“probably just an overzealous intern”; the people who faked their way into the Las Vegas casinos—“probably some young volunteers.” If anyone on Hillary’s team makes the slightest error, it came directly from Hillary, but if anyone on Bernie’s team fucks up, there is NO WAY that Bernie or anyone high up in his campaign had anything to do with it. It truly is an alternate reality they live in.

381
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:27:06pm

re: #379 HappyWarrior

Oh no doubt about it. It’s alot easier to get around those issues if you’re well off. I just think he needs to see that it’s more than that.

Wealthy gays still couldn’t marry and have those legal protections in their home states until this past year.

Wealthy women can still face medical emergencies in hospitals where religious beliefs would threaten their lives.

And I don’t believe that if we were all equal financially, misogyny and racism and bigotry would somehow miraculously go away. Sometimes it feels like Bernie Sanders does.

382
Eric The Fruit Bat  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:27:35pm

re: #374 The Vicious Babushka

Actually, it’s not surprising, considering Delta has a nonstop between Detroit and Sao Pablo, Brazil.

383
gocart mozart  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:35:55pm

Obama throws Rubio an anvil. latimes.com

And on the other hand, you got something like immigration reform, where we did actually do a — I stayed out of it so that I would not be polarizing. You had Republicans over in the Senate working with Democrats to negotiate something — Dick Durbin was involved with this; a young man named Marco Rubio was deeply involved in it — they get a bipartisan bill, it passed by a bipartisan vote, but then this reaction from the base that had been stirred up kills it. And that’s when we start taking executive action.

384
Bubblehead II  Feb 11, 2016 • 5:45:27pm

re: #356 Bubblehead II

???? About the only thing I understood there was twisted pair. I’ll be using CAT5E for in house cabling and 10/100/1000 switches . You lost me on the rest of the acronyms.

Ok, Googled the acronyms. Centurylink/Quest are actually pretty good in this area so the tie in shouldn’t be a problem. If I need to upgrade internal cabling I can do that as well.

385
Patricia Kayden  Feb 11, 2016 • 6:00:13pm

re: #319 Aunty Entity Dragon

Police assholes in NY on Thee Rant are freaking the fuck out and acting exactly how we thought they would:

Notice not one post (you can go see for yourself at Thee Rant. I won’t link since it is a known white supremacist site for NY cops) shows anybody giving a damn about an innocent kid who was gunned down in the dark for the crime of…using the stairs in his apartment building.

The NYC cops are actually demanding the right to shoot innocent people without regard or sanction.

Cops already have that right and they’ve been exercising it for decades now.

386
Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto  Feb 11, 2016 • 7:59:47pm

re: #364 Tigger2

I call them the 2nd Confederacy.

Implying the first one ever went away…

387
WCBadger  Feb 11, 2016 • 10:19:12pm

Simply because Rep. Lewis didn’t see Sanders at civil rights events doesn’t mean he wasn’t there. Plenty of people did see him and there is footage capturing it. Maybe Rep. Lewis needs to be reminded of the racist dog whistles in 2008.

388
Dom  Feb 15, 2016 • 8:03:20am

Charles, I still like LGF (fwiw) even if Hilary Clinton brings out the irritable cynic in me.

Re: the LGF notice “lose the ad-blocker or help us out”: Taboola is a criminal piss-take that ought to be shunned, it’s model is entirely based on misselling on its partners’ behalf; splash-ads are just an insult anywhere on the internet and LGF is now a slow-loader, encumbered by too many ads and trackers. So LGF is one of the reasons I use ad-block. I would have liked LGF to be less commercial. Ads are the obvious model, but websites everywhere are getting a bit bolshy. Maybe there are other revenue options than Taboola’s clickbait. Please don’t take it personally. /rant


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