“Response to the Pope” - a Poem by ​Donald Trump

The Ferlinghetti of fascism
Politics • Views: 58,188

You may have heard that Donald Trump is now feuding with Pope Francis, because of course he is.

I thought it would help his “response to the Pope” to reimagine it in free verse format. It’s much more interesting this way, I think.

RESPONSE TO THE POPE
A Donald J. Trump Joint

If and when
the Vatican is attacked
by ISIS,
which as everyone knows is ISIS’s
ultimate trophy

I
can promise you that
the Pope
would have only wished
and prayed that
Donald Trump
would have been
President
because this would not have happened.

ISIS would have been
eradicated
unlike what is happening now
with our
all talk,
no action
politicians.

The Mexican government
and its leadership
has made many disparaging remarks about
me
to
the Pope,
because they want
to continue to
rip off the United States,
both on trade and
at the border,
and they understand
I
am totally wise to them.

The Pope
only heard one side of
the story
he didn’t see
the crime,
the drug trafficking and
the negative economic impact
the current policies have on
the United States.

He doesn’t see
how Mexican leadership is
outsmarting
President Obama
and our leadership in
every aspect of negotiation.

For a religious leader to
question a person’s faith is
disgraceful.

I am proud to be a
Christian
and as
President
I
will not allow
Christianity
to be consistently attacked and weakened,
unlike what is happening now,
with our current
President.

No leader, especially
a religious leader, should have
the right to question another man’s
religion or faith.

They are using
the Pope
as a
pawn
and they should be ashamed of
themselves for doing so,
especially when
so many lives are
involved
and when
illegal immigration is so
rampant.

[Sound of finger snapping…]

Jump to bottom

468 comments
1
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:18:57pm

A couple of articles at major outlets today, about Trump, South Carolina’s Primary’s history, and Lee Atwater. The best is Pierce’s, which also ties in the wrestling angle:

The Roots of Donald Trump’s Candidacy Lie in a South Carolina Cemetery

2
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:21:05pm

DT does not back down from anybody. Many people see this as a sign of strength.

These are often also people who fart in the bathtub and then try to bite the bubbles.

3
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:22:17pm

re: #1 freetoken

A couple of articles at major outlets today, about Trump, South Carolina’s Primary’s history, and Lee Atwater. The best is Pierce’s, which also ties in the wrestling angle:

The Roots of Donald Trump’s Candidacy Lie in a South Carolina Cemetery

Atwater is a big dent in H.W Bush’s legacy. I do NOT hate H.W Bush but he’s as guilty as Nixon and Reagan for playing on racism in the GOP’s history.

4
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:23:34pm

Nice
I
placement.

5
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:28:39pm

“No leader, especially
a religious leader, should have
the right to question another man’s
religion or faith.”

Limbaugh: Obama Believes He’s the 12th Imam
nation.foxnews.com

6
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:28:58pm

The Donald is just jealous that the Pope has some sort of ecclesiastical obligation to always be wearing a hat.

7
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:29:38pm

Crank verse.

8
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:30:19pm

re: #5 jaunte

“No leader, especially
a religious leader, should have
the right to question another man’s
religion or faith.”

Yeah Rush the 12th Imam brews his own beer and enjoys pork sandwiches and appoints people of various faiths to various positions. Really showing why you’re a college drop out here Rushbo.

9
ramex  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:32:49pm

“He doesn’t have a birth certificate. He may have one, but there’s something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim.” - Donald Trump 2011.

10
Kragar  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:34:18pm

Is this scat?

///

11
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:35:20pm

re: #10 Kragar

It has some in it.

12
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:35:55pm

re: #10 Kragar

Is this scat?

///

No, jive.

//

13
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:39:17pm

Trump be all like Boom Bap Boom Boom Bap Hey Pope Lay Off My Headbone Daddio!

14
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:42:24pm

The Simpsons Ned’s Parents

15
Jenner7  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:42:28pm
16
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:42:34pm

Scott Walker signs bills reducing funding for Planned Parenthood

Gov. Scott Walker signed two bills Thursday that cut by several million dollars a year the amount of public money that goes to Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin.

“We want to make sure as taxpayers whether it’s state funds or federal funds that come through the State of Wisconsin that they’re used in the way that’s responsible and reasonable,” Walker said before signing the bills, which he emphasized would withhold money to “controversial entities like Planned Parenthood.”

One bill restricts how much Planned Parenthood can be reimbursed for prescription drugs, stripping it of an estimated $4 million a year, according to Planned Parenthood. A second measure is expected to cut another $3.5 million in government payments to Planned Parenthood because it provides abortions.

Walker signed the bills at Life’s Connection, a clinic in Waukesha specializing in abortion alternatives.

17
Jenner7  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:43:35pm
18
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:44:33pm

re: #14 Not a Sparkly Vampire

[Embedded content]

Video

“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.” Classic line and a classic episode. It was so shocking seeing Flanders snap.

19
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:46:31pm

re: #17 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Wonder what made him change his mind.

20
ausador  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:46:41pm

OT:

Article III Section IV (non-existant) of the Constitution says a lameduck President in his final year in office can’t nominate a Supreme Court Justice, checkmate libtards!

21
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:47:17pm

re: #15 Jenner7

It’s fucking gross that universities and places of business 1) just assume people to just know what “shelter in place” means and 2) are correct.

22
blueraven  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:47:58pm

No comment.

23
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:48:53pm

re: #20 ausador

OT:

Article III Section IV (non-existant) of the Constitution says a lameduck President in his final year in office can’t nominate a Supreme Court Justice, checkmate libtards!

[Embedded content]

It’s amazing what people will post to convince themselves otherwise. When I looked up election year vacancies, I found that Adams made his appointment as a literal lame duck (Jefferson had already beaten him) and in fact if the inauguration was in January then instead of March, he never would have became CJ.

24
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:49:16pm

I’d like to thank Oliver Willis for adding the word “bigly” to my lexicon.

25
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:49:22pm

Trump would totally start WWIII.

26
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:49:30pm

re: #22 blueraven

No comment.

[Embedded content]

Yeah Bernie’s repping the base alright.

27
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:49:34pm

re: #22 blueraven

That follow up call from the canvasser is a legit question.

28
blueraven  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:52:03pm

re: #27 KGxvi

That follow up call from the canvasser is a legit question.

Well, after this I am not so sure.

29
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:53:04pm

re: #26 HappyWarrior

Yeah Bernie’s repping the base alright.

There’s an old adage in political science that if you want someone to vote for you in the general, your best bet is to get them to vote for you in the primary. Trying to get voters to switch parties isn’t necessarily a bad thing - I mean, at some point, you’re going to need some not insignificant number of voters to do that if you plan on having a mandate. That’s why Republicans like to talk about Reagan Democrats. Otherwise, all you can do is nibble around the edges.

30
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:55:18pm

re: #28 blueraven

Imagine the screaming from the GOP if it were a liberal group doing this.

31
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:55:30pm

re: #29 KGxvi

There’s an old adage in political science that if you want someone to vote for you in the general, your best bet is to get them to vote for you in the primary. Trying to get voters to switch parties isn’t necessarily a bad thing - I mean, at some point, you’re going to need some not insignificant number of voters to do that if you plan on having a mandate. That’s why Republicans like to talk about Reagan Democrats. Otherwise, all you can do is nibble around the edges.

Yeah I guess you’re right.

32
blueraven  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:55:43pm

re: #29 KGxvi

There’s an old adage in political science that if you want someone to vote for you in the general, your best bet is to get them to vote for you in the primary. Trying to get voters to switch parties isn’t necessarily a bad thing - I mean, at some point, you’re going to need some not insignificant number of voters to do that if you plan on having a mandate. That’s why Republicans like to talk about Reagan Democrats. Otherwise, all you can do is nibble around the edges.

The problem is a loophole in Nevada that allows R’s to vote in both caucuses. Much room for mischief. I just hope the Sander’s campaign is not playing around with this fire.

33
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:55:52pm

From 2012:

GOP to run fake Democrats in recalls

The State Republican Party announced Friday it intended to run fake Democratic candidates in the six upcoming recall elections, ensuring that primaries will be necessary in May and forestalling the head-to-head recall elections until June.

The announcement came just hours after state elections officials ordered recall elections against Gov. Scott Walker, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and four Republican state senators.

Primaries will be conducted May 8 and the general election will be June 5 for all of the races, assuming the primaries come about as planned. May 8 becomes the general election date in any races that do not attract enough candidates for a primary.

34
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:56:24pm

re: #16 Amory Blaine

Scott Walker signs bills reducing funding for Planned Parenthood

“Abortion alternatives”? What alternative to abortion is there besides forcing the woman to go through with the pregnancy?

35
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:56:31pm

re: #30 Eclectic Cyborg

Imagine the screaming from the GOP if it were a liberal group doing this.

They found Limbaugh’s “Operation Chaos” hilarious. Joke was on them since Obama’s president now. Still waiting for Rush to move to Costa Rica like he promised to during the Health Care debate. I’ll settle for him getting stuck on the toilet seat.

36
Lidane  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:57:01pm

*headdesk*

37
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 3:57:40pm

re: #36 Lidane

*headdesk*

[Embedded content]

Oh, that’s easy.
God.

38
darthstar  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:01:14pm
39
Jay C  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:01:34pm

re: #36 Lidane

*headdesk*

[Embedded content]

I heard he was actually in the pay of some sort of Catholic conspiracy….

40
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:01:37pm

re: #36 Lidane

*headdesk*

[Embedded content]

planned parenthood and acorn obvs

41
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:01:50pm

re: #34 Targetpractice

“Abortion alternatives”? What alternative to abortion is there besides forcing the woman to go through with the pregnancy?

Have I expressed how thoroughly I hate the filthy fucking pig known as Scott Walker?

42
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:02:55pm

re: #16 Amory Blaine

Scott Walker signs bills reducing funding for Planned Parenthood

I hope that soon Wisconsonites realize that this experiment has been a failure. (Sigh) The jerks their putting into the legislature are as bad or worse than Walker. They’re doing some evil shit to that state.

43
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:03:15pm

re: #36 Lidane

*headdesk*

[Embedded content]

He’s on a mission from God.

/

44
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:03:35pm

Just getting ready to watch Chris Matthews take on Trump and the Pope and Mark Halperin at the end of that crappy Bloomberg Politics said the winner of the day was not the Pope it was Trump because he showed he could go up against the Pope, not back down and like a sly fox come out the winner.

Yeah right Mark. Pfffft.

45
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:03:40pm

re: #28 blueraven

If their goal is to get a Republican elected, they should probably start with getting better Republican candidates, because both RCP and HuffPo have composites showing Democrats winning most of the match ups.

And quite frankly, didn’t they try something like this in 2008? And it pretty much went nowhere. The fact is, most people don’t care enough to vote twice - either they aren’t partisan hacks or they’ve got better things to do. This isn’t going to move the needle.

46
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:04:27pm

re: #42 stpaulbear

I hope that soon Wisconsonite’s realize that this experiment has been a failure. (Sigh) The jerks their putting into the legislature are as bad or worse than Walker. They’re doing some evil shit to that state.

Thing is, Walker and his cronies in the legislature understand that eventually all the bills for the shit they’re doing are going to come due. Hence why they’ve been busy effectively reducing Wisconsin into a one-party state, doing everything in their power to so thoroughly stack the deck that it might be ages before Democrats succeed in undoing the whole mess.

47
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:05:01pm

re: #36 Lidane

Let me rephrase. Limbaugh wants to know who the Pope “works” for. Not the same people you work for. How’s That? Rush has to be fucking mental at this point. Just a hole with a voice coming from it. A sewer. Open. Fetid. Slime ridden. Worthless. Useless. I hope history shows him for the true cancer he is.

48
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:05:16pm

re: #44 ObserverArt

Remember, to the Trumpites, winning is the virtue.

49
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:06:19pm

re: #45 KGxvi

If their goal is to get a Republican elected, they should probably start with getting better Republican candidates, because both RCP and HuffPo have composites showing Democratss winning most of the match ups.

And quite frankly, didn’t they try something like this in 2008? And it pretty much went nowhere. The fact is, most people don’t care enough to vote twice - either they aren’t partisan hacks or they’ve got better things to do. This isn’t going to move the needle.

The only two candidates that really pose a serious danger to a Clinton or Sanders ticket in the general seem to be Rubio and Kasich, who are both presently circling the drain. Cruz beats Clinton, but such a small percentage of the vote that a recount would be almost guaranteed.

50
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:06:29pm

re: #38 darthstar

Has Michele Fiore kind of disappeared since all this has happened? The Bundy’s must be SOOO glad that they listened to her.

51
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:06:47pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

The democratic party is basically dead in this state, doing this state’s business. If it wasn’t for the POTUS, they would be dead on national too.

52
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:07:36pm

I can’t help but be reminded of Jesse Venturas old wrestling motto:

“Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!”

53
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:08:31pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Thing is, Walker and his cronies in the legislature understand that eventually all the bills for the shit they’re doing are going to come due. Hence why they’ve been busy effectively reducing Wisconsin into a one-party state, doing everything in their power to so thoroughly stack the deck that it might be ages before Democrats succeed in undoing the whole mess.

Scott Walker is the purest embodiment of why gerrymandering and cultural segregation must be fought at every turn. A pile of scared-shitless wealthy white Milwaukee suburbs are running the whole fucking state, and it’s sickening.

Minnesota (which, curiously, is doing very well under D leadership!) should thank its lucky north stars that the dual downtown setup of the Twin Cities tends naturally to have a bit more socioeconomic stirring, else they might be staring down the barrel of similar bullshit.

54
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:08:36pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

The only two candidates that really pose a serious danger to a Clinton or Sanders ticket in the general seem to be Rubio and Kasich, who are both presently circling the drain. Cruz beats Clinton, but such a small percentage of the vote that a recount would be almost guaranteed.

If a Republican is winning nationally by less than 1%, they won’t get to 270 electoral votes.

55
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:08:59pm

re: #38 darthstar

[Embedded content]

The Bundy boys are headed for that big roundup in the federal pen.

56
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:09:42pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

The only two candidates that really pose a serious danger to a Clinton or Sanders ticket in the general seem to be Rubio and Kasich, who are both presently circling the drain. Cruz beats Clinton, but such a small percentage of the vote that a recount would be almost guaranteed.

I’m a lot less worried about a Sanders ticket than a Sanders downticket.

er I mean the magical revolutionary democracy fairies will convey a sympathetic House and Senate after the People just something something Rise Up, never mind

57
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:09:54pm

re: #34 Targetpractice

“Abortion alternatives”? What alternative to abortion is there besides forcing the woman to go through with the pregnancy?

That’s pretty much what they’re providing.

58
Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:09:57pm

re: #42 stpaulbear

I hope that soon Wisconsonite’s realize that this experiment has been a failure. (Sigh) The jerks their putting into the legislature are as bad or worse than Walker. They’re doing some evil shit to that state.

NC still manages to be worse.

59
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:10:33pm

re: #38 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Was rereading a thread on another BBS about the whole Bundy Ranch “standoff” yesterday, and found myself at the time predicting that Cliven’s “victory” was temporary while the FBI found an alternative way to skin that particular cat.

I never realized how right I was gonna be…or how tickled pink I’d be by the results.

60
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:10:36pm

re: #32 blueraven

The problem is a loophole in Nevada that allows R’s to vote in both caucuses. Much room for mischief. I just hope the Sander’s campaign is not playing around with this fire.

Bernie may be trying to work off the thinking that Republicans want him as the Democrat candidate because they think any one of their lame-ass candidates can take the ol’ socialist. I don’t think it is good thinking.

61
ausador  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:10:56pm
62
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:12:09pm

re: #60 ObserverArt

Bernie may be trying to work off the thinking that Republicans want him as the Democrat candidate because they think any one of their lame-ass candidates can take the ol’ socialist. I don’t think it is good thinking.

It’s awfully, uh, pardon the McCain-ism… not very country-first.

If you’re seeking to be the D candidate and you’re trying to nuke the other guy in the primary without any thought at all about the general, ur doin it rong.

63
Ubiq  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:12:23pm

re: #50 stpaulbear

Has Michele Fiore kind of disappeared since all this has happened? The Bundy’s must be SOOO glad that they listened to her.

She’s got bigger problems.

64
darthstar  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:12:33pm

re: #55 Aunty Entity Dragon

The Bundy boys are headed for that big roundup in the federal pen.

What? The feds are still upset about a little armed insurrection? But they let us go back then! Nobody said they’d arrest us later when we couldn’t defend ourselves!

I”m hoping sniper asshole on the bridge gets picked up one day when he’s cashing his disability check.

65
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:12:34pm

Of course Bernie Sanders has never said, “Let’s vote for a man.”

Because he doesn’t freaking HAVE TO. For 240 years, it’s just been assumed that’s what we would do.

The casual ignorance of a statement like this is mind-blowing. Just fucking apologize for the insensitive statement, for Pete’s sake.

66
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:02pm

re: #53 Testy Toad T

Scott Walker is the purest embodiment of why gerrymandering and cultural segregation must be fought at every turn. A pile of scared-shitless wealthy white Milwaukee suburbs are running the whole fucking state, and it’s sickening.

Minnesota (which, curiously, is doing very well under D leadership!) should thank its lucky north stars that the dual downtown setup of the Twin Cities tends naturally to have a bit more socioeconomic stirring, else they might be staring down the barrel of similar bullshit.

We flirted with it but when they tried to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage everyone got sick of conservatives and turned things around. Pawlenty wasn’t anywhere near as evil as Walker, but we had our fling.

Edit: It’s not curious that we’re doing so well with progressive politics. Progressive politics can work really well. It’s a great. fair place to run a business.

67
Lidane  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:08pm

Let the Republican backpedaling commence!

68
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:14pm

re: #56 Testy Toad T

I’m a lot less worried about a Sanders ticket than a Sanders downticket.

er I mean the magical revolutionary democracy fairies will convey a sympathetic House and Senate after the People just something something Rise Up, never mind

If Sanders ends up being the nominee, I find it hard to imagine that many of his voters would split their ticket. And I would think that he (or his speech writers/campaign staff) would be smart enough in a general election to remind people that they need to vote for Democrats in all the elections, not just president. Of course, there’s always the question of whether the state parties have bothered to run credible candidates (this is one of the main problems the GOP has in California right now, they haven’t run a credible candidate statewide since I was in high school).

69
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:24pm

re: #1 freetoken

A couple of articles at major outlets today, about Trump, South Carolina’s Primary’s history, and Lee Atwater. The best is Pierce’s, which also ties in the wrestling angle:

The Roots of Donald Trump’s Candidacy Lie in a South Carolina Cemetery

That was good. He reminded me that a side-effect of the southern strategy was to get the working class to start feeling aggrieved. But, ironically, the way the GOP got labor to vote for them was to take away their jobs.

70
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:27pm

re: #50 stpaulbear

Has Michele Fiore kind of disappeared since all this has happened? The Bundy’s must be SOOO glad that they listened to her.

“Come to Oregon!” they said. “It’ll be fun!” they said.

/John McClain

71
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:13:49pm

re: #52 Eclectic Cyborg

I can’t help but be reminded of Jesse Venturas old wrestling motto:

“Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!”

Well, that sure as hell makes a whole hell of a lot of sense in ‘competition’ that is already prearranged. /

72
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:14:25pm

re: #69 Barefoot Grin

I liked how Pierce worked the Fabulous Moolah into the current Presidential political debate.

73
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:14:59pm

re: #63 Ubiq

She’s got bigger problems.

So she’s dirty? Wow. I’ll get my surprised face out. Wait here.

74
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:16:05pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

Of course Bernie Sanders has never said, “Let’s vote for a man.”

Because he doesn’t freaking HAVE TO. For 240 years, it’s just been assumed that’s what we would do.

The casual ignorance of a statement like this is mind-blowing. Just fucking apologize for the insensitive statement, for Pete’s sake.

I’ve heard a lot of Clinton supporters say “well, Hillary was wrong about this specific decision or policy, and this is what I think she learned from it, and this is why I think that”.

Sanders seems to enjoy almost Trumpian support from his more vocal supporters. Anything he does wrong was just a trick of Big Establishment, or it wasn’t actually wrong, or hey fuck you he’s more progressive!!!1, or whatever.

Small sample caveat and all, but I have not heard a single Sanders supporter say that the Bern was ever wrong, like really truly wrong, about anything. Or even “I think he didn’t mean that, but he was dumb to say it and he should get out in front of it and be a leader by apologizing”.

Nary a peep.

75
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:16:26pm

re: #23 HappyWarrior

I found that Adams made his appointment as a literal lame duck

The word “literal” you’re using it wrong.

This is a literal lame duck==>

76
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:16:45pm

I saw the Fabulous Moolah about 41 years ago, back in my younger days, when the wrestlers came around to my podunk town, and I, as all young males do, went and watched such things.

Little did I realize at that time that I was viewing a metaphor for the 2016 US Presidential election.

77
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:16:55pm

re: #67 Lidane

What has been the standard deviation (for lack of a better term) for Fox Polls lately? Weren’t they always 3-5% more conservative/Republican than other polls because of their polling methodology?

78
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:17:42pm

re: #58 Aunty Entity Dragon

NC still manages to be worse.

There’s a bunch of bad states right now. I’m staying put.

79
KGxvi  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:18:38pm

re: #76 freetoken

I saw the Fabulous Moolah about 41 years ago, back in my younger days, when the wrestlers came around to my podunk town, and I, as all young males do, went and watched such things.

Little did I realize at that time that I was viewing a metaphor for the 2016 US Presidential election.

Professional wrestling is more believable than American politics.

80
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:19:30pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Of course Bernie Sanders has never said, “Let’s vote for a man.”

Because he doesn’t freaking HAVE TO. For 240 years, it’s just been assumed that’s what we would do.

The casual ignorance of a statement like this is mind-blowing. Just fucking apologize for the insensitive statement, for Pete’s sake.

This is one of the things that will kill Bernie in the general election, this tone deafness that his supporters want to ignore but to everybody else smacks almost of the same arrogance as Trump’s.

81
Romantic Heretic  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:19:34pm

re: #34 Targetpractice

“Abortion alternatives”? What alternative to abortion is there besides forcing the woman to go through with the pregnancy?

Exactly!

82
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:19:34pm

re: #68 KGxvi

If Sanders ends up being the nominee, I find it hard to imagine that many of his voters would split their ticket…

No, I don’t think there would be any ticket-splits.

What I do think would happen is that a metric shit-ton of Sanders supporters in purple districts of very red states wouldn’t fucking bother to show up because they know they won’t be able to swing the top-ballot and then further nuke our minority in the House.

Because Sanders hasn’t spent a fucking dime of cash or peep of news cycle to talk about how the whole ballot matters, and that he can’t get a single damned thing done if he has no support in the other elected branch of government.

83
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:20:43pm

re: #82 Testy Toad T

No, I don’t think there would be any ticket-splits.

What I do think would happen is that a metric shit-ton of Sanders supporters in purple districts of very red states wouldn’t fucking bother to show up because they know they won’t be able to swing the top-ballot and then further nuke our minority in the House.

Because Sanders hasn’t spent a fucking dime of cash or peep of news cycle to talk about how the whole ballot matters, and that he can’t get a single damned thing done if he has no support in the other elected branch of government.

Also, you know, raising money for the downticket races matters.

84
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:20:43pm

It got above 60° F at my house today, damn it. Is winter over?

:(

85
Romantic Heretic  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:20:59pm

re: #42 stpaulbear

I hope that soon Wisconsonites realize that this experiment has been a failure. (Sigh) The jerks their putting into the legislature are as bad or worse than Walker. They’re doing some evil shit to that state.

And then they’ll blame it on the Democrats.

Personal responsibility!

86
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:22:08pm

re: #75 The Vicious Babushka

The word “literal” you’re using it wrong.

This is a literal lame duck==>

Embedded Image

Haha too true.

87
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:22:18pm

re: #79 KGxvi

Professional wrestling is more believable than American politics.

And a lot more classy.

88
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:22:47pm

re: #84 teleskiguy

Now it’s raining. Boo!

89
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:22:47pm

re: #83 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Also, you know, raising money for the downticket races matters.

It matters big time and I can’t believe someone who thinks he can have an ambitious agenda is so unaware of the importance of those races.

90
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:22:59pm

I honestly do think a big part of Sanders’ appeal, particularly to younger and more idealistic voters, is that he’s apparently pure as the driven snow. When (not if) that mask comes off, when they finally come to realize that he’s just another flavor of politician, the drop-off in voter engagement will be staggering.

If there’s a GOP candidate with two brain cells to rub together, they know their smartest strategy might be to aggressively pillory Sanders on 95% of issues and then give him a big damn bear hug on the other 5%.

91
Pawn of the Oppressor  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:24:09pm

re: #79 KGxvi

Professional wrestling is more believable than American politics.

Now that I think about it, Trump is basically Rowdy Roddy Piper without the charm.

92
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:25:21pm

re: #90 Testy Toad T

I honestly do think a big part of Sanders’ appeal, particularly to younger and more idealistic voters, is that he’s apparently pure as the driven snow. When (not if) that mask comes off, when they finally come to realize that he’s just another flavor of politician, the drop-off in voter engagement will be staggering.

If there’s a GOP candidate with two brain cells to rub together, they know their smartest strategy might be to aggressively pillory Sanders on 95% of issues and then give him a big damn bear hug on the other 5%.

I got at the other day. i said the second he’s forced to compromise for whatever reason, they’ll turn on him. Not all of them. Sanders’ supporters aren’t all like this but enough of them I think are just begging to get their hearts broken by looking at him that way.

93
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:26:20pm

I don’t think this is something to celebrate or be happy about, 9News meteorologists.

Facebook Post

94
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:26:53pm

First sighting of the Robert Reich “6 Sanders myths” video on my FB feed today. I posted Bob Cesca’s rebuttal article and this comment:

Definitely worth a read, particularly the rebuttals to points 2 and 3.

I prefer Clinton, but if Sanders wins I will absolutely support him. Given what a psycho shit show the GOP has become, it’s a no-brainer.

My big worry at this point is that if Sanders loses, many of his supporters will sit back and let the GOP taker over the the White House; either by refusing to vote or spite-voting for the GOP.

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. This guy is as liberal as me, but every so often his Magic Balance Fairy gene kicks in.

95
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:27:11pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

I got at the other day. i said the second he’s forced to compromise for whatever reason, they’ll turn on him. Not all of them. Sanders’ supporters aren’t all like this but enough of them I think are just begging to get their hearts broken by looking at him that way.

Why do people think ‘uncompromising’ is a great thing in politics? You know what uncompromising people in politics don’t do? Get anything useful accomplished.

96
Romantic Heretic  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:27:14pm

re: #79 KGxvi

Professional wrestling is more believable than American politics.

And much less dangerous to the country.

97
fern01  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:27:32pm

re: #16 Amory Blaine

Scott Walker signs bills reducing funding for Planned Parenthood

The hatred he has for those less fortunate than himself. Absolute lack of humanity. And always the women - one of whom nurtured him as a child. Some men are really really bitter about that time on dependency on a woman.

98
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:28:01pm

re: #79 KGxvi

Professional wrestling is more believable than American politics.

Yup.

And more honest too:

Image: hero-portrait-the-fabulous-moolah-.jpeg

99
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:29:35pm

re: #95 Blind Frog Belly White

Why do people think ‘uncompromising’ is a great thing in politics? You know what uncompromising people in politics don’t do? Get anything useful accomplished.

I don’t get it either.

100
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:29:47pm

re: #63 Ubiq

She’s got bigger problems.

That’ll be popcorn and beer while watching the train wreck.

The IRS against someone with the thinking of Michele Fiore is like mixing water and oil. She is going to milk that crap with the ‘nuts, Tea Partiers, and sovereigns because one of their favorite targets is the IRS.

…waht?

Oh fuck off Chris. Matthews just said he doesn’t think the Pope and Trump should be getting into it. And Michael Steels is agreeing and is going to Trump defense and criticizing the Pope.

You son of a bitches need to understand the Pope is speaking in religious pulpit language. He is making the wall a symbol in a parable and when he said a man that builds walls, it was not specific to Trump, it was any man that builds a wall. It is his fucking job to do what he is doing. Can you disagree? You sure can, but damn, going after the Pope for being the Pope is stupid. And we have stupid people like this making a big thing of it because of…

TRUMP®.

I’m surprised at Matthews. I fully expected him to be outraged because he is very Catholic. Oh well. They got to him!

101
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:29:59pm

I got these cookies for a harp event over the weekend, and as there was a multitude of food they ended up coming back home with me.

Horrible mistake. They’re like crack. I had my one for the day and I just want to finish the damn box and arggggggggggggggggggh. (My conservative estimate is that they are 200 calories a cookie.)

102
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:30:59pm

In San Fernando Valley business news:

103
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:31:07pm

re: #101 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I got these cookies for a harp event over the weekend, and as there was a multitude of food they ended up coming back home with me.

Horrible mistake. They’re like crack. I had my one for the day and I just want to finish the damn box and arggggggggggggggggggh. (My conservative estimate is that they are 200 calories a cookie.)

I’d be happy to help your cookie problem if we lived closer.

104
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:31:17pm

re: #94 Mattand

First sighting of the Robert Reich “6 Sanders myths” video. I posted Bob Cesca’s rebuttal article and this comment:

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. This guy is as liberal as me, but every so often his Magic Balance Fairy gene kicks in.

I’m aftraid that a lot of Bernie voters will go vote for him and then ignore the rest of the ballot because they haven’t been paying any attention to anything but Bernie, and those other names on the ballot are just the usual politicians. //

105
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:31:37pm

re: #82 Testy Toad T

No, I don’t think there would be any ticket-splits.

What I do think would happen is that a metric shit-ton of Sanders supporters in purple districts of very red states wouldn’t fucking bother to show up because they know they won’t be able to swing the top-ballot and then further nuke our minority in the House.

Because Sanders hasn’t spent a fucking dime of cash or peep of news cycle to talk about how the whole ballot matters, and that he can’t get a single damned thing done if he has no support in the other elected branch of government.

Someone summarized a portion of an interview Bernie gave some years ago involving politics in Vermont, namely a question that involved his lack of support for other progressive politicians in Vermont. His response was along the lines of “It’s not my job to help them,” then when pressed on the matter, he got angrier and angrier with his dismissals before basically demanding the subject be dropped or the interview would be over. The interviewer, in classic “access” fashion, decided it was better to move on than to keep pressing for an answer and risk losing further access to Bernie.

106
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:32:00pm

re: #103 HappyWarrior

I’d be happy to help your cookie problem if we lived closer.

There’s like 5 left.

I should just freeze them, and then I can portion them out more normally. Having them unfrozen is too tempting.

107
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:32:09pm

re: #101 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Step away!! You’ve been working too hard to throw it all away.
//(kinda)

108
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:32:39pm

re: #101 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I got these cookies for a harp event over the weekend, and as there was a multitude of food they ended up coming back home with me.

Horrible mistake. They’re like crack. I had my one for the day and I just want to finish the damn box and arggggggggggggggggggh. (My conservative estimate is that they are 200 calories a cookie.)

If you’re like me, your willpower is like an on/off switch. I can eat none, or I can eat the whole damn box, then go to the store and buy two more whole damn boxes and eat those, too. But I can’t eat ONE cookie.

Same thing for lunch. I have to pack a dismal little sandwich and a piece of fruit, because if I have to go out to get lunch, I’ll buy a day’s worth of calories.

109
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:32:56pm

30 minutes to the Anderson Cooper snooze fest:

Trump, Kasich, Bush to attend CNN town hall Thursday

110
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:33:16pm

re: #95 Blind Frog Belly White

Why do people think ‘uncompromising’ is a great thing in politics? You know what uncompromising people in politics don’t do? Get anything useful accomplished.

A VT reader at TPM who supports Bernie locally, but is voting for Clinton, brought up the point about how Sanders is essentially saying “Fuck you” to the downticket candidates and races.

This whole “Fuck em all, burn it all down, the people will rally around us” vibe Sanders and some Berniacs give off is idiotic.

111
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:33:44pm

re: #97 fern01

The hatred he has for those less fortunate than himself. Absolute lack of humanity. And always the women - one of whom nurtured him as a child. Some men are really really bitter about that time on dependency on a woman.

Walker just does what he’s told to do. That’s it. He’s been bought and paid for pretty much his whole career. He doesn’t care about anybody but Walker. He’ll fuck over anyone at any time if the political price is right.

112
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:33:47pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

Someone summarized a portion of an interview Bernie gave some years ago involving politics in Vermont, namely a question that involved his lack of support for other progressive politicians in Vermont. His response was along the lines of “It’s not my job to help them,” then when pressed on the matter, he got angrier and angrier with his dismissals before basically demanding the subject be dropped or the interview would be over. The interviewer, in classic “access” fashion, decided it was better to move on than to keep pressing for an answer and risk losing further access to Bernie.

I did see that too. I just don’t get that about him. He’s got a safe seat. So why doesn’t he campaign for Democrats running that he thinks would be a good match? I speculated on it the other day but I can’t help but to wonder if Bernie might have a little bit of a Ted Cruz like reputation among his Democratic colleagues. Perhaps not as bad as Ted but I’ve found myself wondering if he might have so few supporting him because his all or nothing type approach to policy.

113
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:34:26pm

re: #109 freetoken

“So Donald, remind America how awesome you are.”

114
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:34:28pm

re: #100 ObserverArt

Matthews had Ann Coulter on his show the other night.

Chris Matthews is a loud mouthed idiot is nowhere near as smart or insightful as he thinks he is.

115
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:34:30pm

re: #106 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There’s like 5 left.

I should just freeze them, and then I can portion them out more normally. Having them unfrozen is too tempting.

Sounds like a reasonable idea. I’m back to only doing desserts on Sundays now.

116
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:36:06pm

re: #110 Mattand

A VT reader at TPM who supports Bernie locally, but is voting for Clinton, brought up the point about how Sanders is essentially saying “Fuck you” to the downticket candidates and races.

This whole “Fuck em all, burn it all down, the people will rally around us” vibe Sanders and some Berniacs give off is idiotic.

It is sort of interesting how no prominent Vermont Democrats, people who know him best are backing him isn’t it? I do think whether he means it or not, he is sending a sort of fuck you to the down ticket candidates and races. That’s not only bad politics, it’s a bad way to make and maintain friendships too.

117
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:36:26pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

Well, Bernie, seriously. Fuck you and the progressive rainbow-farting unicorn you rode in on.

118
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:37:43pm

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Sounds like a reasonable idea. I’m back to only doing desserts on Sundays now.

Bc1tvQSaL+11TnZ4mtKwyeWz56Bx+WyEsQPfPmHAIWzk7xAJjv6+lsSeJOTR971N0n4Oihd6qmL7C9EcLTuhGwiLaFr7wsnHHKVpmNSY/B8Q+twfiYdhkc22WiVPr7XyMDiZmqSn9PiM1OvEn86TrYZ0JmdWIC3BlIV5/B/bF6ExALWovJmf+MwyL93OiGr3AQT022dLE4EhLNa7YYelNAemytd2OJUiSLjjTrgyJZC3WBDu0i4OW2tYBZbuIL0YKkm2Fx/iCJojsvbzue+gickeJjBmU5jot4D9i0dVvlJMkDM9S9TnuI95Dpz8rqNQDOySiqsh0ZDPQsK8JYywZrHrPCMvrggHjyB+fzMQLZoC5R5kxtjMNfs8kc2LfHW0m4B8oKe5Tmm3zSdOeIvVbjWjAMhTFo18+fJ9+y9i1Mz0fJBz4jxU7YWl03CzEV1r15cV5m+C/mcbSJk+oiXn549wXvUKbykR8eb8NoiTAjuf6nMIn1FIR5JLGwMkeRVDU+6bCYbbMN/JcKG/W1Dth+d/C4p43Sf89LnL5Ap/09ZV4gOR4JRNDy5NWIp0JjbDOD59FKAx5QPEd4pCaBQDYCeEETvwy8SciaxDuuo7uJbKWbn9DhHhGsPNGL00D3MXdOx30LK7x+H72TJW5WKXpw==

119
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:37:54pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

I can’t help but to wonder if Bernie might have a little bit of a Ted Cruz like reputation among his Democratic colleagues. Perhaps not as bad as Ted but I’ve found myself wondering if he might have so few supporting him because his all or nothing type approach to policy.

If I’m not mistaken, they both still sport exactly zero endorsements from their senatorial colleagues.

Gee maybe that should be a red flag.

120
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:38:03pm

God am I glad I can talk about this with you guys though. I have a lot of friends and friends of friends who love Bernie and don’t take too kindly to constructive criticism of their guy.

121
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:38:15pm

re: #117 Testy Toad T

But the farts smell like cookies…

122
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:38:17pm

re: #114 Mattand

MSNBC and CNN are all competing with Fox News for the advertising dollars.

So they all copy each other, where they think the other is having success.

The Comcast/NBC owners, the Time-Warner owners, and the Murdoch empire all have the same goals. And frankly the same methods too.

123
Emoprog Refugee  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:38:44pm

re: #67 Lidane

Let the Republican backpedaling commence!

[Embedded content]

Ugh!!!! Stupid media, do your damn jobs!
Why on earth are they taking polls to figure out who people think is responsible for filling SCOTUS vacancies? It is irrelevant what people think and what percentage of the population thinks what.
What is relevant is that the process for SCOTUS vacancy filling is unambiguously spelled out: the pres nominates; the senate approves or disapproves.
If 34% of the population thinks this should not be, then 34% of the population is woefully misinformed, so inform them of what the procedure is and where it is spelled out. Quit taking freaking polls to try to play magical balance fairy and promote perversion of the process.
Grumblemuttercuss!
/rant. Sorry.

Lidane, this rant is not at all aimed at you, just the media in general, Fox in particular this time. I am glad that 62% of those polled accurately grasp the mechanics of the process (and I guess in that sense, it is not completely irrelevant). The media just anger and depress me some days. Ok, most days. Especially Fox. Especially how they are handling the GOP’s idiotic temper tantrum in response to Scalia inconveniently dying before Jan of 2017.

124
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:38:49pm

re: #121 Amory Blaine

But the farts smell like cookies…

Pretty sure we have established that cookies are bad for the diet.

125
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:39:32pm

re: #114 Mattand

Matthews had Ann Coulter on his show the other night.

Chris Matthews is a loud mouthed idiot is nowhere near as smart or insightful as he thinks he is.

I thought this would be a one-time kind of thing. I was wrong.

126
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:40:00pm

re: #123 Emoprog Refugee

Ugh!!!! Stupid media, do your damn jobs!
Why on earth are they taking polls to figure out who people think is responsible for filling SCOTUS vacancies? It is irrelevant what people think and what percentage of the population thinks what.
What is relevant is that the process for SCOTUS vacancy filling is unambiguously spelled out: the pres nominates; the senate approves or disapproves.
If 34% of the population thinks this should not be, then 34% of the population is woefully misinformed, so inform them of what the procedure is and where it is spelled out. Quit taking freaking polls to try to play magical balance fairy and promote perversion of the process.
Grumblemuttercuss!
/rant. Sorry.

Lidane, this rant is not at all aimed at you, just the media in general, Fox in particular this time. I am glad that 62% of those polled accurately grasp the mechanics of the process (and I guess in that sense, it is not completely irrelevant). The media just anger and depress me some days. Ok, most days. Especially Fox. Especially how they are handling the GOP’s idiotic temper tantrum in response to Scalia inconveniently dying before Jan of 2017.

Our media makes the problem so much worse. You’re right. I am tired of polling be used to push a MBF.

127
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:41:21pm

Looking for me? Tee Hee!

128
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:41:56pm

re: #127 Amory Blaine

Embedded Image

Looking for me? Tee Hee!

Both sdies just as bad, both sides are just as bad.

129
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:44:00pm

Jesus.

130
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:12pm

I am going to admit, seeing on the last thread how Sanders thinks of immigration has me completely in Clinton’s camp.

Not to mention, Sander’s fan can be really creepy.

131
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:13pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

Pull your fucking weight, shithead.

I was an enthusiastic Obama supporter in 2008, but I’d have crawled over broken glass to vote for Hillary then compared to how I feel about Sanders now.

132
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:28pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

Jesus.

AP reports that the Sanders campaign is “open” to raising money for the party “eventually.”

Mighty white of them.

133
Emoprog Refugee  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:31pm

re: #84 teleskiguy

It got above 60° F at my house today, damn it. Is winter over?

:(

You’re in Colorado, yes? If yes, I think you usually get a more intense version of our (Utah) weather, and it went from ~50 this am to intense wind and huge, black clouds mid morning, to thundering blizzard early afternoon, back to clear skies and 40ish right now.

So, if you inherit our weather, expect the unexpected. May not be over quite yet. Gotta say, I’ve really enjoyed having an actual winter this year, with snow that hangs around for weeks.

134
MsJ  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:40pm

re: #130 Ziggy_TARDIS

I am going to admit, seeing on the last thread how Sanders thinks of immigration has me completely in Clinton’s camp.

Not to mention, Sander’s fan can be really creepy.

You and me both.

135
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:45:53pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

Jesus.

[Embedded content]

Do they not realize that being President also means you’re the defacto head of your party. One reason why I very much disagree with comparing Sanders ‘16 to Obama ‘08 is Obama was a team player all the way. I remember Obama as a little known freshman senator here in Va campaigning for Tim Kaine’s gubernatorial bid and then Webb when he ran for the Senate the next year. I cannot believe how oblivious they are to this.

136
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:47:22pm

re: #135 HappyWarrior

I cannot believe how oblivious they are to this.

Ooh, ooh, I can!

BECAUSE HE ISN’T A FUCKING DEMOCRAT.

137
Emoprog Refugee  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:48:14pm

re: #93 teleskiguy

I don’t think this is something to celebrate or be happy about, 9News meteorologists.

[Embedded content]

OMG, no, that is quite horrifying for mid Feb for Denver. Wow.

138
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:48:20pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

Jesus.

[Embedded content]

It’s getting harder and harder to ignore the parallels between Sanders’ campaign and Trump’s. Both seem to think they’re the greatest gift ever bestowed on their respective parties and don’t feel they owe them any loyalty, but are raising all sorts of a ruckus about how “their” party won’t support their bids. I’m beginning to think that, if Bernie thought it would boost his support, he’d pull a Trump and start threatening a third party run unless he started getting more favorable treatment.

139
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:48:33pm

Thing about cheating on a diet (my style) is, if you’re going to do it only eat what you really want to. For me that means don’t eat that box of Little Debbies (empty shameful calories), instead I eat a cheeseburger. Take one of the buns off and save 100 calories. WIN WIN!!

140
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:48:44pm

re: #130 Ziggy_TARDIS

I am going to admit, seeing on the last thread how Sanders thinks of immigration has me completely in Clinton’s camp.

Not to mention, Sander’s fan can be really creepy.

I have to say, I take what someone like Representative Gutiérrez says very seriously since he’s probably one of the most vocal leaders on immigration issues and reading his words and observations really got to me.

141
The alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:48:48pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

That’s one hell of a photo they used.

142
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:49:07pm

re: #136 Testy Toad T

Ooh, ooh, I can!

BECAUSE HE ISN’T A FUCKING DEMOCRAT.

He’s not but his staffers are. At the very least, he should be campainging for progressive candidates.

143
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:49:56pm

Someone on FB told me “Your an idiot!”

So I said, “‘My an idiot’? What does that mean?”

They haven’t responded, so I suspect they’re flummoxed.

144
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:50:19pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

I remember reading an archived newspaper on Google from the early 90’s about how Sanders was burning bridges with his allies in congress, including one guy who tried to get Reagan and Bush I impeached.

145
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:52:53pm

re: #144 Ziggy_TARDIS

I remember reading an archived newspaper on Google from the early 90’s about how Sanders was burning bridges with his allies in congress, including one guy who tried to get Reagan and Bush I impeached.

Got a name? But anyhow it was really telling to me considering Rep. Gutiérrez who has an equally strong if not stronger progressive record on the issues than Bernie saying this. And then you have Steve King who praised him. Agh. I admit, immigration is a big issue for me since it hits so close to home. I’ve known many people over the years who they themselves or their families were here illegally. I don’t think Bernie is a bigot but at the same time, I don’t think he really looks at issues outside an economics point of view.

146
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:53:12pm

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Sounds like a reasonable idea. I’m back to only doing desserts on Sundays now.

This is so hard. I have terrible sugar cravings. I keep a whole bunch of fruit available, but sometimes it’s just not enough, you know? And all that fake sugar, stevia, or splenda, tastes like ammonia.

147
Cheechako  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:54:00pm

Sanders, an Independent, needs to remember that the Democrats allowed him to participate in the Democrat primaries. Should he lose the Democratic nomination, he should feel obligated to come out and vigorously campaign for Hilary. And, he must urge all his supporters to get off their high horses and vote for Hilary. Sanders, of all candidates, should understand the consequences of a GOP victory.

148
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:54:02pm

re: #146 The Vicious Babushka

This is so hard. I have terrible sugar cravings. I keep a whole bunch of fruit available, but sometimes it’s just not enough, you know? And all that fake sugar, stevia, or splenda, tastes like ammonia.

I’ve taken to drinking tea after dinner to get a sweet. But yeah it’s tough. Hardest things are no in betweeners (in between meals) and daily exercies.

149
ausador  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:54:15pm

On some days…

150
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:54:59pm

re: #147 Cheechako

Sanders, an Independent, needs to remember that the Democrats allowed him to participate in the Democrat primaries. Should he lose the Democratic nomination, he should feel obligated to come out and vigorously campaign for Hilary. And, he must urge all his supporters to get off their high horses and vote for Hilary. Sanders, of all candidates, should understand the consequences of a GOP victory.

The bolded is why I hate hearing whining about the Dem party establishment. when they really had no obligation to let him run in their primary.

151
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:55:10pm

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Unfortunately, it escapes me at the moment.

I do remember the person represented either Arizona or California in the house, and might have had a last name of Spanish or Hispanic origin.

152
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:55:19pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

I’ve taken to drinking tea after dinner to get a sweet. But yeah it’s tough. Hardest things are no in betweeners (in between meals) and daily exercies.

I have arthritis and the only exercise I can do is swimming. Sadly, they closed the local pool.

153
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:55:45pm

en.wikipedia.org
This is a great guy. I dare Bernie’s surrogates to just call him an establishment tool.

154
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:56:06pm

re: #152 The Vicious Babushka

I have arthritis and the only exercise I can do is swimming. Sadly, they closed the local pool.

That sucks. I do love swimming as well. Great exercise.

155
compound_Idaho  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:56:11pm

re: #102 teleskiguy

Seems like a job for OSHA.

156
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:56:23pm

re: #151 Ziggy_TARDIS

Unfortunately, it escapes me at the moment.

I do remember the person represented either Arizona or California in the house, and might have had a last name of Spanish or Hispanic origin.

Ah okay, no worries.

157
Timothy Watson  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:57:34pm

re: #151 Ziggy_TARDIS

Unfortunately, it escapes me at the moment.

I do remember the person represented either Arizona or California in the house, and might have had a last name of Spanish or Hispanic origin.

Henry Gonzalez?

Many of those calls came from one lawmaker, the late Democratic Rep. Henry Gonzalez. The Texas congressman went after so many Republican presidents that journalist John Nichols, in his book The Genius of Impeachment, says he was jokingly referred to by his House colleagues as “Henry B. Gonzalez (D-Impeachment).”

None of Gonzalez’s targets, of course, were impeached. And, again, Obama isn’t likely to be either.

npr.org

158
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:58:26pm

re: #155 compound_Idaho

Seems like a job for OSHA.

Compliance is always an issue with PPE.

159
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:58:33pm

For what it’s worth (not much), Erick son of Erick says

Bush Campaign Sources: Campaign Out of Money. Pay Ends Saturday.

160
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:59:06pm

re: #147 Cheechako

Sanders, an Independent, needs to remember that the Democrats allowed him to participate in the Democrat primaries. Should he lose the Democratic nomination, he should feel obligated to come out and vigorously campaign for Hilary. And, he must urge all his supporters to get off their high horses and vote for Hilary. Sanders, of all candidates, should understand the consequences of a GOP victory.

To hear his supporters tell it, he might actually be happier with a Republican in the White House. Not only is there increased support for guys like him, who will buck a Republican no matter what, but they also think that a Republican in the White House will mean things going apocalyptic in such a fashion that the American people will rise up and impose socialism on the government. And people like him will be installed as benevolent dictators.

161
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 4:59:53pm

re: #159 Skip Intro

For what it’s worth (not much), Erick son of Erick says

Bush Campaign Sources: Campaign Out of Money. Pay Ends Saturday.

South Carolina is going to be Jebbie’s last stand. i think we knew taht already. Wow though, already out of money? So fiscally responsible.

162
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:00:21pm

re: #147 Cheechako

Those aren’t high horses, they’re unicorns.

163
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:00:41pm

re: #159 Skip Intro

For what it’s worth (not much), Erick son of Erick says

Bush Campaign Sources: Campaign Out of Money. Pay Ends Saturday.

Jeb? will be out on the freeway with a sign, saying “Will Continue Brother’s Legacy For $5!”

164
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:01:09pm

re: #146 The Vicious Babushka

My answer to not having cake or pie or candy bars is these. And 100% grape juice.Outshine Frozen Fruit Bars.
And they have enough flavors to keep it interesting. The coconut is great.

165
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:01:18pm

re: #163 Targetpractice

Jeb? will be out on the freeway with a sign, saying “Will Continue Brother’s Legacy For $5!”

Remember when we thought they’d settle on him at some point. Heh fun times.

166
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:01:52pm

re: #164 nines09

My answer to not having cake or pie or candy bars is these. And 100% grape juice.Outshine Frozen Fruit Bars.
And they have enough flavors to keep it interesting. The coconut is great.

Oh those are good. Especially the coconut.

167
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:01:58pm

re: #157 Timothy Watson

I think that is him.

168
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:02:00pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

He spent most of his money on the Jeb! logo and “Jeb can fix it” slogan.

169
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:02:34pm

One thing I’m glad I never did in my initial weight loss regiment was to take up smoking. I hate the taste of tobacco anyhow.

170
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:03:17pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Remember when we thought they’d settle on him at some point. Heh fun times.

There was a point in time that I thought Ted Cruz would dominate the race by running on a platform of “I’ve pissed off both parties!”

171
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:03:33pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Remember when we thought they’d settle on him at some point. Heh fun times.

Bush-Clinton, a sure thing.

How wrong could we be?

172
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:03:52pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

Yes they are. Make a big Pina Colada and serve with coconut pop as swizzle stick…..Uhhhhhhhhhh…..

173
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:04:04pm

re: #171 Skip Intro

Bush-Clinton, a sure thing.

How wrong could we be?

Ideally 50%.

174
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:04:13pm

re: #171 Skip Intro

Bush-Clinton, a sure thing.

How wrong could we be?

I’m glad it’s not going to turn out that way.

175
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:04:55pm

re: #172 nines09

Yes they are. Make a big Pina Colada and serve with coconut pop as swizzle stick…..Uhhhhhhhhhh…..

Now there’s an idea. Too cold right now to be thinking about that though but I do wish it was warm.

176
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:05:09pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

I’ve taken to drinking tea after dinner to get a sweet. But yeah it’s tough. Hardest things are no in betweeners (in between meals) and daily exercies.

I normally do yogurt. Some of the whipped Greek-style ones are tasty and have enough protein to help keep feeling full longer, while they’re not overly sweet but still enough for a nice pick me up.

Honestly the cookies are almost a little too sweet at this point, which is good. I’m slowly weaning my taste buds off excessive sugar.

The frozen meal plan we’re using does advocate for small snacks (~150 calories) in between meals, preferably high in protein.

177
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:06:04pm

re: #170 Targetpractice

There was a point in time that I thought Ted Cruz would dominate the race by running on a platform of “I’ve pissed off both parties!”

I really thought Trump would have a moment where he was oto much even for the bigots in the GOP base. I thought Walker would emerge because he’s a two term blue state governor who loves union busting. Not surprised Jindal and Christie were busts. Ditto Rand who constantly seemed confused whether he was his father or just another GOP hack.

178
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:06:20pm

re: #174 HappyWarrior

I can’t say I’m looking forward to Sanders losing 40 states though.

179
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:07:06pm

re: #176 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I normally do yogurt. Some of the whipped Greek-style ones are tasty and have enough protein to help keep feeling full longer, while they’re not overly sweet but still enough for a nice pick me up.

Honestly the cookies are almost a little too sweet at this point, which is good. I’m slowly weaning my taste buds off excessive sugar.

The frozen meal plan we’re using does advocate for small snacks (~150 calories) in between meals, preferably high in protein.

Yeah Greek yogurt is good. I’m trying to have more non-meat entrees. Today I had some sauted spinach on naan with some feta as a sort of flat-bread. I still think I have way oto much carbs.

180
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:07:43pm

re: #178 Skip Intro

I can’t say I’m looking forward to Sanders losing 40 states though.

I don’t think it’s going ot be him. I’m not sold on him until he wins some states that aren’t liy white.

181
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:07:56pm

re: #174 HappyWarrior

I’m glad it’s not going to turn out that way.

This year is so different from 2012. Then it was Romney vs Flavor Of The Month. If you look at the polls on a graph, you see at least 5 successive Not Romneys rise and fall while Romney was always second.

This year? Jeb was in the lead, right up till he started campaigning. And he’s only gone down hill progressively since.

182
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:09:03pm

re: #181 Blind Frog Belly White

This year is so different from 2012. Then it was Romney vs Flavor Of The Month. If you look at the polls on a graph, you see at least 5 successive Not Romneys rise and fall while Romney was always second.

This year? Jeb was in the lead, right up till he started campaigning. And he’s only gone down hill progressively since.

Jeb’s made Mitt look charismatic. I cannot believe we were duped into thinking he was teh “smart” one and George dumb. I mean George’s not going to MENSA meetings anytime soon but I think after observing Jeb, I do think George is smarter, at least as a campaigner anyhow.

183
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:09:07pm

re: #179 HappyWarrior

Yeah Greek yogurt is good. I’m trying to have more non-meat entrees. Today I had some sauted spinach on naan with some feta as a sort of flat-bread. I still think I have way oto much carbs.

Getting enough protein is my issue. It makes a HUGE difference in how full I feel - the frozen meals are only like 400 calories max and yet I am generally not super hungry between meals.

Which is good.

I’m getting kind of tired of chicken though. At least they consistently do chicken well.

184
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:10:13pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Jeb’s made Mitt look charismatic. I cannot believe we were duped into thinking he was teh “smart” one and George dumb. I mean George’s not going to MENSA meetings anytime soon but I think after observing Jeb, I do think George is smarter, at least as a campaigner anyhow.

Yeah, how the hell did Jeb ever win a Governorship? Or is the competition in Florida so weak?

185
ausador  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:10:24pm

Short and to the point. Can be paraphrased as “Stop damaging the Democratic party’s reputation for factual arithmetic!”

186
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:10:39pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

Rum Runner with raspberry pop……Summer is coming. BIG one. Made with white and dark rum with a sidecar of Meyers Dark drizzled over the top……..Oh boy…..

187
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:11:07pm

re: #183 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Getting enough protein is my issue. It makes a HUGE difference in how full I feel - the frozen meals are only like 400 calories max and yet I am generally not super hungry between meals.

Which is good.

I’m getting kind of tired of chicken though. At least they consistently do chicken well.

I try to mix up my proteins. I really don’t like having the same protein on the same day.

188
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:11:40pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

Ridiculous. I am a supporter. Hillary had my support initially in 2008, before I saw a better agenda, and has it should she win the nomination, barring something unforeseen occurring. Everyone I know who supports Sanders feels the same.

Obama had striking agenda goals from the beginning. But was often halted by the GOP with unprecedented obstruction. My views on the power and roles of the President have changed over the course of the last 7 years. I view the President as, essentially, a negotiator.

Sanders I know has my best interests in mind. I trust his commitment to attempting to create equal opportunity. Hillary, I know is champion of the left. The center-left. She has compromised some of my core hopes for my future, before she has even gotten to the negotiating table.

And I accept that My beliefs are not universal in any respect. But I no longer feel the need to compromise when a solid alternative is in front of me presently. If that’s dreaming and immature and throwing my vote away. So be it. I’ll vote for Hillary.
my 2 cents

189
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:11:43pm

re: #186 nines09

Rum Runner with raspberry pop……Summer is coming. BIG one. Made with white and dark rum with a sidecar of Meyers Dark drizzled over the top……..Oh boy…..

Mmmm. I did have an idea since Hard Root Beer seems otbe a thing now though. Hard Root Beer float.

190
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:12:45pm

I think CNN is stalling…

191
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:14:17pm
192
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:14:41pm

Sugar free cherry Jello with bananas FTW.

193
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:14:48pm

re: #191 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Hahahahwhut.

194
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:15:18pm

More prick waving and saber rattling from stupid fucking chicken hawks.

Where is the humanity in these miserable freaks?

195
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:15:20pm

re: #191 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Uh no idiot because typing is a more efficient and more modern skill. Wouldn’t expect a supporter of a man who treats his supporters like they have single digit IQ’s to get such an abstract concept though.

196
nines09  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:15:26pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Go for it. Never know if you don’t try it. Or …A Mojito with muddled mint and a slice of smashed sugar cane……..A BIG ONE. Or a Zombie……

197
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:15:29pm

Cursive, foiled again.

198
japa21  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:15:37pm

re: #188 Major Tom

As long as you are going to vote Hillary in the general come hell or high water, vote your conscience in the primary.

199
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:16:20pm

re: #194 teleskiguy

More prick waving and saber rattling from stupid fucking chicken hawks.

[Embedded content]

Where is the humanity in these miserable freaks?

Sean, when are you getting waterboarded again to prove it’s not torture?

200
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:16:45pm

re: #196 nines09

Go for it. Never know if you don’t try it. Or …A Mojito with muddled mint and a slice of smashed sugar cane……..A BIG ONE. Or a Zombie……

Yeah I plan on it. I like being adventurous with booze.

201
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:17:54pm

re: #191 jaunte

[Embedded content]

And in the intervening 227 years, nobody thought to transcribe it.

202
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:18:19pm

Agh memories of Everclear jello shooters in college. Never again. At least Absinthe doesn’t taste like how one imagine’s rubbing alcohol does.

203
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:18:48pm

From DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s home state.

From the former chairman of the Dade Democratic Party,

Clinton should withdraw from the presidential race

Heckofajob you’re doing Debbie.

miamiherald.com

204
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:19:04pm

re: #191 jaunte

[Embedded content]

It’s like stupid is a game of hearts and this person got such a bad hand [s]he decided to shoot the moon.

205
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:19:23pm

re: #194 teleskiguy

More prick waving and saber rattling from stupid fucking chicken hawks.

[Embedded content]

Where is the humanity in these miserable freaks?

Not to worry, ISIS will all form up in the middle of nowhere for us to bomb the shit out of them, not hide among innocents. That wouldn’t be sporting.
///

206
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:19:41pm

re: #201 Blind Frog Belly White

And in the intervening 227 years, nobody thought to transcribe it.

To be fair, there’s a lot of people whose print handwriting is illegible to me as well.

Like mr. klys’s.

207
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:19:56pm

re: #203 Skip Intro

From DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s home state.

From the former chairman of the Dade Democratic Party,

Clinton should withdraw from the presidential race

Heckofajob you’re doing Debbie.

miamiherald.com

I think that is something that most people can agree on. She’s not doing a good job. I think it’d be better if the DNC Chair were someone not presently in office.

208
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:20:06pm
209
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:21:04pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Jeb’s made Mitt look charismatic. I cannot believe we were duped into thinking he was teh “smart” one and George dumb. I mean George’s not going to MENSA meetings anytime soon but I think after observing Jeb, I do think George is smarter, at least as a campaigner anyhow.

I don’t think Jeb! is dumb. I just don’t think Jeb! actually wants to be a politician, never mind a president.

To be honest, I kinda feel bad for the guy. A better, more loving, more listening family would never have put him in this position.

210
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:21:16pm

re: #206 klys (maker of Silmarils)

To be fair, there’s a lot of people whose print handwriting is illegible to me as well.

Like mr. klys’s.

Or mine. I look at the notes I take during meetings anymore, and even I can’t figure them out.

211
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:21:28pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

I do not believe a Democratic victory this fall is a sure thing.

As wacky as the Republicans are, it is possible one of them could be elected.

212
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:22:01pm

re: #209 Testy Toad T

I don’t think Jeb! is dumb. I just don’t think Jeb! actually wants to be a politician, never mind a president.

To be honest, I kinda feel bad for the guy. A better, more loving, more listening family would never have put him in this position.

Oh, I don’t think he’s dumb really but I think we over-estimated his intelligence. But maybe that is because he flat out just does not want ot be President and fix his family’s name due to his brother’s mess.

213
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:22:16pm

I have a hard time believing Donald Trump’s class was bogged down with cursive handwriting exercises. Isn’t that more for the proles?

214
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:22:33pm

re: #211 freetoken

I do not believe a Democratic victory this fall is a sure thing.

As wacky as the Republicans are, it is possible one of them could be elected.

Don’t scare me like that but yeah it’s possible.

215
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:23:13pm

re: #212 HappyWarrior

I think his whole motivation is to save the Bush name.

216
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:23:20pm
217
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:23:40pm

re: #210 Blind Frog Belly White

Or mine. I look at the notes I take during meetings anymore, and even I can’t figure them out.

I’m doing handwritten exercises in creative writing class. IT shocks me that my professor can read my scribble. I haven’t typed notes all semester. I’m all of course typing my short stories and responses.

218
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:24:03pm

re: #215 Major Tom

I think his whole motivation is to save the Bush name.

Heckuva jbb Jebbie?

219
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:24:41pm

re: #188 Major Tom

Ridiculous. I am a supporter. Hillary had my support initially in 2008, before I saw a better agenda, and has it should she win the nomination, barring something unforeseen occurring. Everyone I know who supports Sanders feels the same.
…
my 2 cents

To quote somebody I saw on 538 (or retweeted therefrom),

The idea of a growing rift between Clinton/Sanders supporters continues not to hold much traction with actual voters

The internet and the voting public are two very different things. The Kos mindset scares the shit out of me, but it’s damned hard to tell how pervasive that is in the actual voting public.

220
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:25:47pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I’ll be interesed in seeing how Trump fares among Catholic voters. Not sure how he’s done so far and we won’t get a good fix Saturday since SC doesn’t have a sizable RCC presence.

221
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:25:50pm

In case you missed it, the big Cruz deception of the day is that they photoshopped a photo, putting Rubio and Obama’s heads on other bodies.

When confronted, the Cruz folk are just saying it was “illustrative” of this or that point.

Really pathetic, but it seems to be par for course.

222
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:26:42pm

re: #219 Testy Toad T

I am beginning to think that a lot of people who are pro-Sanders are people who usually don’t vote for Democrats anyway. A combination of the Green Party supporters (among other left-wing 3rd Parties), and Ron Paul fans.

223
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:01pm

re: #215 Major Tom

I think his whole motivation is to save the Bush name.

I think he’s worried about the 10,000 “Please Clap” t-shirts that his campaign ordered but can’t move.

224
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:11pm

re: #219 Testy Toad T

To quote somebody I saw on 538 (or retweeted therefrom),

The internet and the voting public are two very different things. The Kos mindset scares the shit out of me, but it’s damned hard to tell how pervasive that is in the actual voting public.

i don’t worry about it. For all my criticisms of Bernie, I think most of his supporters are people like Tom. I do remember how Obama was apparently doomed because of resentment from the Clinton camp following her defeat. I just want Bernie to see the bigger picture more on what this job he’s running entails.

225
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:15pm

re: #203 Skip Intro

From DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s home state.

From the former chairman of the Dade Democratic Party,

Clinton should withdraw from the presidential race

Heckofajob you’re doing Debbie.

miamiherald.com

Okay, this is some pretty funny shit right here. Convince Hillary, if not force her to drop out of the race, and assume that that won’t effectively mean conceding the nomination to Bernie. Then assume that the party can pull a rabbit out of its hat and find somebody willing to spend from now until August getting eviscerated in the press by Republicans and Sanders surrogates alike. Finally, assume that stacking the deck in their favor will not immediately split the party and instead lead to a popular nominee who can beat any GOP contenders.

That’s a whole new level of insanity.

226
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:37pm

re: #221 freetoken

In case you missed it, the big Cruz deception of the day is that they photoshopped a photo, putting Rubio and Obama’s heads on other bodies.

When confronted, the Cruz folk are just saying it was “illustrative” of this or that point.

Really pathetic, but it seems to be par for course.

#CruzPhotoshop

227
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:41pm

Wasn’t there a townhall tonight?

228
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:27:41pm

In what strives to be an article at Daily Beast, it is recalled that Trump told Stern in 1997 that for all the sleeping around he did, he was lucky to avoid diseases; it was his “personal Vietnam,” said the draft-dodger.

thedailybeast.com

Trying to sleep around but having zero luck in the ’80s was my personal Vietnam.

229
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:28:07pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

Okay, this is some pretty funny shit right here. Convince Hillary, if not force her to drop out of the race, and assume that that won’t effectively mean conceding the nomination to Bernie. Then assume that the party can pull a rabbit out of its hat and find somebody willing to spend from now until August getting eviscerated in the press by Republicans and Sanders surrogates alike. Finally, assume that stacking the deck in their favor will not immediately split the party and instead lead to a popular nominee who can beat any GOP contenders.

That’s a whole new level of insanity.

Forget it Jake, it’s Florida.

230
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:28:26pm

re: #222 Ziggy_TARDIS

I am beginning to think that a lot of people who are pro-Sanders are people who usually don’t vote for Democrats anyway. A combination of the Green Party supporters (among other left-wing 3rd Parties), and Ron Paul fans.

That’s really not fair. I think a lot of them are genuine Democrats but I think a lot of them whether because of age or because of how they approach things don’t see the big picture. I was a Kucinich supporter in 2004. I know this mindset..

231
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:29:24pm

SPLC:

Extremist Info
….
Ideology
Anti-LGBT
About David Lane

“…In June 2013, Lane wrote an essay titled “Wage War to Restore Christian America” that was posted at the conspiracist and anti-LGBT site World Net Daily (WND) in which he employed decidedly martial rhetoric, calling on Christians to be “retrained to war for the Soul of America, and quit believing the fabricated whopper of the ‘Separation of Church and State…’” as well as hinted at Christian martyrdom to stop same-sex marriage. “America’s survival is at stake,” he wrote, “and this is not tall talk or exaggeration.” The essay was yanked from the WND site soon after it went up after bloggers called attention to it.”
splcenter.org

232
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:30:19pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

I never went through this phase. I always kept my mind on what would be likely to win, and adopting a gradual approach to reform.

233
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:30:23pm

re: #231 jaunte

SPLC:

And Politico thinks this guy is just another Evangelical leader. Then again, let’s be honest, most Evangelical leaders think whacked out shit like this.

234
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:31:33pm

re: #232 Ziggy_TARDIS

How gradual is acceptable?

235
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:32:22pm

re: #233 HappyWarrior

For some reason they never seem interested in “Waging War Within, To Be A Better Person,” it’s always about getting the power to impose their will on someone else.

236
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:32:27pm

re: #232 Ziggy_TARDIS

I never went through this phase. I always kept my mind on what would be likely to win, and adopting a gradual approach to reform.

Well, all I can say is behind most jaded pragmatists are former idealists. I mean the Clintons were McGovernites who in turn were in rebellion against my name sakeite’s (Humphrey) and who in turn rebelled against Truman and the then Dem establishment in the 40’s who was a rebellion against the more laissez-faire of the Democratic Party of the 1920’s. Not saying these people are right but I do understand why they think the way they do.

237
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:33:06pm

re: #235 jaunte

For some reason they never seem interested in “Waging War Within, To Be A Better Person,” it’s always about getting the power to impose their will on someone else.

Yep all about telling the rest of us we’re sinners and we suck.

238
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:34:03pm

re: #223 Skip Intro

I think he’s worried about the 10,000 “Please Clap” t-shirts that his campaign ordered but can’t move.

He’s from Florida, right? He can add a pic of poisoned Tinkerbelle and sell them to Disneyworld.
///

239
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:34:29pm

re: #234 Major Tom

Because moving too fast can cause two issues. A backlash, and if not done carefully, can cause unexpected shocks, both economically and socially.

240
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:34:59pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

That’s really not fair. I think a lot of them are genuine Democrats but I think a lot of them whether because of age or because of how they approach things don’t see the big picture. I was a Kucinich supporter in 2004. I know this mindset..

I dunno. I get what you’re saying, but the whole “I won’t raise money for Democrats or engage in any downballot activity” grates like a motherfucker.

I can’t think of any modern precedent for that on the left.

241
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:35:11pm

re: #239 Ziggy_TARDIS

I’m ok with that. The status quo is damaging in it’s own ways.

242
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:35:16pm
243
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:35:23pm

re: #235 jaunte

For some reason they never seem interested in “Waging War Within, To Be A Better Person,” it’s always about getting the power to impose their will on someone else.

Fuck that! Make other people be better persons!!!

244
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:36:29pm

re: #240 Testy Toad T

I dunno. I get what you’re saying, but the whole “I won’t raise money for Democrats or engage in any downballot activity” grates like a motherfucker.

I can’t think of any modern precedent for that on the left.

I meant the supporters. The way the campaign is acting though is a strange animal for sure. That does piss me off too. Hell it pisses me off from a left wing perspective because he seems to be showing no desire to build up a Democratic majority in Congress where we can implement some of the stuff he wants.

245
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:36:43pm

“…When they hail religious liberty, they do not mean the right to pray and worship with other believers. Instead, the phrase has become a catchall for tactical goals of seeking exemptions from the law on religious grounds. To claim exception from the law as a right of “religious refusal” is, of course, the same as claiming the power to take the law into one’s own hands.”
nytimes.com

246
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:19pm

re: #242 jaunte

[Embedded content]

This is why I laugh when RWNJs pretend to care gays in the Muslim world where their own candidates hang around guys like Swanny there who believe the same thing.

247
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:19pm

re: #241 Major Tom

I’m ok with that. The status quo is damaging in it’s own ways.

Your alternative is not advancing the status quo faster. Your alternative is not advancing it at all, or trying to shoot the moon and moving backwards.

Repeal and replace, because the ACA is too crappy and compromised, right? What if you only achieve the first half of that?

Much of the Sanders constituency, at least on the corners of the internet I frequent, seems to be of the mindset that if you want it hard enough, it’ll just kinda happen.

248
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:26pm

re: #241 Major Tom

If the shock is too big, people will try, and sometimes succeed in going back to the way things were before.

Before one moves forward, one must watch what the effects are first, and make adjustments for the next step.

249
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:30pm

re: #241 Major Tom

I’m ok with that. The status quo is damaging in it’s own ways.

You shouldn’t be, especially if you value social liberalism at all. The end of Jim Crow, women’s liberation, gay rights? None of those things came about because of small businessmen or the man on the street. All of them were supported by big business seeking new employees and customers. And there are a lot of people who’d love to see them reversed.

250
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:33pm

re: #164 nines09

My answer to not having cake or pie or candy bars is these. And 100% grape juice.Outshine Frozen Fruit Bars.
And they have enough flavors to keep it interesting. The coconut is great.

The Meijer store where I shop has frozen juice bars in strawberry and mango. Haven’t tried the coconut. But they are not as appealing during the winter.

251
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:37:42pm

re: #244 HappyWarrior

Yeah because we’ve been so good at forging that until just now.

252
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:38:00pm

re: #228 Barefoot Grin

In what strives to be an article at Daily Beast, it is recalled that Trump told Stern in 1997 that for all the sleeping around he did, he was lucky to avoid diseases; it was his “personal Vietnam,” said the draft-dodger.

thedailybeast.com

Trying to sleep around but having zero luck in the ’80s was my personal Vietnam.

There was one girl in college. Surprisingly easy to get into bed. She was my personal Granada.

253
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:38:57pm

re: #249 Brian J.

You’re wrong, activism made those things happen. Businesses followed late.

254
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:38:59pm

re: #241 Major Tom

I’m ok with that. The status quo is damaging in it’s own ways.

You see, this is that “Fuck everyone, burn it all down” nihilism from Bernie supporters that scares the shit out of me.

It’s basically a Tea Party mindset with a better grasp on grammar and spelling.

255
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:39:02pm

re: #251 Major Tom

Yeah because we’ve been so good at forging that until just now.

He doesn’t help a damn thing when he says he won’t campaign for downticket candidates.

256
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:39:18pm

re: #251 Major Tom

Yeah because we’ve been so good at forging that until just now.

Do you think we’ll do a better job of forging a Democratic majority by not having our candidate raising money, and by not having him campaign for candidates in vulnerable states and house districts?

Because that’s the alternative with which we’re being presented.

257
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:40:16pm

re: #255 HappyWarrior

He said he’d be open to it in the future. Let’s not put the horse before the cart.

258
ausador  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:40:43pm

Democrat???

259
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:40:56pm

i often see FDR cited as a role model. FDR worked with everyone from Progressive Republicans Liberal Democrats, and people who were okay with legalized lynching to implement the New Deal. If you want dramatic change, you need a Congress, state legislatures, and governors to do it.

260
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:40:59pm

re: #253 Major Tom

You’re wrong, activism made those things happen. Businesses followed late.

Wait, what?

Activism advocated for those things. It came first, yes. Nobody will dispute that. Then later, other parties had feelings on the matter. Eventually, things changed.

261
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:41:01pm

re: #256 Testy Toad T

He’s generated a lot of money without organized superpacs. That’s supposedly not possible too.

262
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:42:15pm

re: #257 Major Tom

He said he’d be open to it in the future. Let’s not put the horse before the cart.

He also has a history of indifference, if not hostility, to the suggestion that he support other candidates but himself. Can you name any politicians who owe their electoral success to an endorsement from him? How much money has he raised for other candidates?

263
Bubblehead II  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:42:17pm

Night Lizards.

264
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:42:39pm

re: #257 Major Tom

He said he’d be open to it in the future. Let’s not put the horse before the cart.

Put the horse before the cart? Seriously?

“Hey, Democrats: fuck you and your campaigns now, but make me your de facto leader and maaaaaaybe I’ll throw you a bone down the road.”

You really want to go with that?

265
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:43:03pm
266
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:43:29pm

I’m pretty certain that the horse does in fact come before the cart.

Unless I’ve been doing it wrong all these years.

267
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:43:33pm

re: #257 Major Tom

He said he’d be open to it in the future. Let’s not put the horse before the cart.

Does it somehow impurify Bernie Sanders to campaign right now for the people who would actually need to, like, vote on the bills he would hope to sign into law?

Are you even kidding about saying

How gradual is acceptable?

with regards to matters of public policy and then entrusting your preferred presidential candidate to not even be bothering to campaign for his downticket supporters nine months before the election?

I mean, seriously. I honestly am not trying to sound patronizing, but do you see the confusing dichotomy here?

268
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:44:09pm

re: #261 Major Tom

He’s generated a lot of money without organized superpacs. That’s supposedly not possible too.

Not enough to run a national party or even a general election campaign.

269
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:44:17pm

re: #257 Major Tom

He said he’d be open to it in the future. Let’s not put the horse before the cart.

He’s running for his party’s nomination. Part of being your party’s standard bearer is campaigning for other people in your party. You talk about how you want and think we need radical change? How are we going to get it if Bernie as the defacto ehad of the Democratic Party does very little to help other Democrats seeking office? I don’t think I’m unreasonable in expecting this out of him. and if Clinton talked that way, I would criticize her too.

270
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:44:38pm

re: #262 Targetpractice

Nope, got me there. I like his policies.

271
PhillyPretzel  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:45:13pm

re: #266 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m just a city slicker but I have seen the horse pulling the cart. :)

272
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:45:23pm

re: #265 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Bu-u-uyt, if patriotic sentiment is wanted,
I’ve patriotic ballads cut and dried.
For where e’re our countries banners may be planted,
All other local banners are defied!

273
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:45:25pm

This pretty much covers my opinion of Bernie.

He is the party crasher who pees on the toilet seat, knocks over lamps, spits on invited guests, picks pockets and purses, and then sues the hosts for calling the police. He is an ungrateful, despicable, creepy man who violates boundaries and feels entitled to take what he wants. And he attracts support from others just like him.

274
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:45:42pm

re: #270 Major Tom

Nope, got me there. I like his policies.

Congrats. Now, how do you propose to make them reality if he flips off his own party and, as a result, has short or no coattails going into the White House?

275
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:46:15pm

re: #271 PhillyPretzel

I’m just a city slicker but I have seen the horse pulling the cart. :)

I mean, it’s not like I should talk like I always get my metaphors right, because on the phone with my mom today I said that I was going to count my horses before my chickens.

Which is kind of a mash-up of the cart before the horse and counting chickens before they hatch.

276
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:46:26pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

Someone summarized a portion of an interview Bernie gave some years ago involving politics in Vermont, namely a question that involved his lack of support for other progressive politicians in Vermont. His response was along the lines of “It’s not my job to help them,” then when pressed on the matter, he got angrier and angrier with his dismissals before basically demanding the subject be dropped or the interview would be over. The interviewer, in classic “access” fashion, decided it was better to move on than to keep pressing for an answer and risk losing further access to Bernie.

If true, what a fucking douchebag.

I guess that would be one reason he’s popular with other left-wingers of the douchebag persuasion.

277
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:46:40pm

re: #273 Skip Intro

re: #274 Targetpractice

If you’re worried about people losing political ambitions, I would rest assured the party will be fine.

One man does not make a party. (Unless you’re a third party.)

278
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:47:42pm

re: #277 Major Tom

If you’re worried about people losing political ambitions, I would rest assured the party will be fine.

/watches the point fly on by

//like an airplane

//maybe a space shuttle

279
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:47:52pm

re: #270 Major Tom

Nope, got me there. I like his policies.

Professed policies are great, but they pale in comparison to legislation that is signed into law.

Law beats feeling every time. Ask the Bundys how that goes.

280
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:47:56pm

re: #277 Major Tom

If you’re worried about people losing political ambitions, I would rest assured the party will be fine.

How? Bernie would leave them naked under the sky with a massively unpopular guy on top of the ticket and no financial aid. I live in a state where our statewide elections don’t coincide with national ones, but in other Southern states, the party would be absolutely crushed.

281
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:48:18pm

re: #278 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Sorry. ok now?

282
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:49:32pm

I’ll actually add a policy criticism. I don’t think he sees the big picture. Not that economic inequality isn’t a problem in this country, it clearly is and props to him for talking about it but racism, sexism, homophobia, and hostility to immigrants happen to people regardless of wealth.

283
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:49:51pm

re: #277 Major Tom

One man does not make a party. (Unless you’re a third party.)

I politely beg your pardon, but holy crap. Tell that to a personality like Ronald Reagan, whose cult of personality directly swung this country from New Deals and Great Societies to throwing the mentally ill out onto the street and starving grandmother to make sure somebody else’s more melanin-gifted grandmother wasn’t buying a phantom Cadillac or T-bone.

284
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:50:13pm

re: #252 Blind Frog Belly White

There was one girl in college. Surprisingly easy to get into bed. She was my personal Granada.

If I had tried playing Van Halen at ear-splitting decibels in order to get that girl who seemed to know where all the blow was to come out of her room?

285
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:50:32pm

re: #282 HappyWarrior

As we saw in the last thread, the immigration one is one he simply doesn’t care about.

286
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:50:34pm

re: #281 Major Tom

Sorry. ok now?

Your vow to support whoever the Dem nominee is starting to sound like a load of crap.

287
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:51:08pm

re: #283 Testy Toad T

I politely beg your pardon, but holy crap. Tell that to a personality like Ronald Reagan, whose cult of personality directly swung this country from New Deals and Great Societies to throwing the mentally ill out onto the street and starving grandmother to make sure somebody else’s more melanin-gifted grandmother wasn’t buying a phantom Cadillac or T-bone.

It wasn’t just a cult of personality. Reagan didn’t just come out of nowhere with these ideas. He was at the head of a movement that had been cultivating that mindset for 20 years with increasing success at the state and local levels.

288
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:51:19pm

re: #282 HappyWarrior

I’ll actually add a policy criticism. I don’t think he sees the big picture. Not that economic inequality isn’t a problem in this country, it clearly is and props to him for talking about it but racism, sexism, homophobia, and hostility to immigrants happen to people regardless of wealth.

One should always be profoundly skeptical of a single-issue candidate, full stop.

As near as I can tell, Bernie Sanders thinks all of our problems stem from Wall Street. He is a single-issue candidate. I don’t even remember the last single-issue candidate to run for the presidency.

289
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:51:19pm

re: #274 Targetpractice

Congrats. Now, how do you propose to make them reality if he flips off his own party and, as a result, has short or no coattails going into the White House?

The people, who haven’t risen up much in the last 8 years, will suddenly rise up and get angry at the other politicians who won’t do their bidding.

But they’d better not be pandering, because that’s just wrong.

290
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:51:42pm

re: #277 Major Tom

I think the problem is more that he speaks of needing a political revolution, but doesn’t put his effort where his mouth is. The revolution that’s needed is the kind the GOP pulled off in 2010, where they went full bore after every position down to dog catcher, and ended up with the power to gerrymander themselves into a majority for a decade.

Imagine what we could have done, had we held onto the majority we had in 2008 after 2010.

Now imagine Bernie facing the current Congress. Some revolution.

291
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:52:03pm

re: #287 Brian J.

It wasn’t just a cult of personality. Reagan didn’t just come out of nowhere with these ideas. He was at the head of a movement that had been cultivating that mindset for 20 years with increasing success at the state and local levels.

Yeah Reagan’s ascendation starts with the day Goldwater won the Republican nomination in 1964 or if you want to go back even further the grumblings during the Eisenhower years.

292
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:52:36pm

re: #291 HappyWarrior

Yeah Reagan’s ascendation starts with the day Goldwater won the Republican nomination in 1964 or if you want to go back even further the grumblings during the Eisenhower years.

True. Goldwater is what would have happened if Reagan had been just a cult of personality.

293
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:01pm

re: #283 Testy Toad T

And look at the GOP now.

294
austin_blue  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:17pm

re: #266 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m pretty certain that the horse does in fact come before the cart.

Unless I’ve been doing it wrong all these years.

We used to put the horse behind the cart, but we kept getting farther and farther from town…

295
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:19pm

re: #284 Barefoot Grin

If I had tried playing Van Halen at ear-splitting decibels in order to get that girl who seemed to know where all the blow was to come out of her room?

That would be your own personal Panama.

296
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:25pm

re: #286 Mattand

Thanks.

297
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:51pm

re: #290 Blind Frog Belly White

I think the problem is more that he speaks of needing a political revolution, but doesn’t put his effort where his mouth is. The revolution that’s needed is the kind the GOP pulled off in 2010, where they went full bore after every position down to dog catcher, and ended up with the power to gerrymander themselves into a majority for a decade.

Imagine what we could have done, had we held onto the majority we had in 2008 after 2010.

Now imagine Bernie facing the current Congress. Some revolution.

He’d probably resign before Valentine’s Day, after discovering that his shouting had no effect whatsoever.

298
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:53:52pm

re: #292 Brian J.

True. Goldwater is what would have happened if Reagan had been just a cult of personality.

Nixonland was a fascinating read. Need to read the other two books in Perlestein’s history of that era but man that stuff fascinates me. TT got, how we went from the New Deal Coalition to the Reagan Revolution.

299
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:54:05pm

re: #295 Blind Frog Belly White

That would be your own personal Panama.

What you did there, I see.

300
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:54:37pm

re: #293 Major Tom

And look at the GOP now.

You mean basically running the show, because we control few enough of the levers of government to get the Senate to engage in their basic constitutional duties?

How does the glorious progressive revolution deal with this, exactly, without getting Democrats elected to the Senate?

301
thedopefishlives  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:54:47pm

Evening Lizardim.

302
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:55:40pm

re: #296 Major Tom

Thanks.

Sorry, but your posts don’t fill me with confidence.

303
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:55:42pm

re: #290 Blind Frog Belly White

I think the problem is more that he speaks of needing a political revolution, but doesn’t put his effort where his mouth is. The revolution that’s needed is the kind the GOP pulled off in 2010, where they went full bore after every position down to dog catcher, and ended up with the power to gerrymander themselves into a majority for a decade.

Imagine what we could have done, had we held onto the majority we had in 2008 after 2010.

Now imagine Bernie facing the current Congress. Some revolution.

The Class of 2010 is who is largely up for reelection this year, at least in the Senate. And they mostly got in on the same formula of portraying Obama as the second-coming of Lenin, the ACA as the greatest socialist crime to grace our shores, and promising to repeal it as soon as they could.

And now they’re up for reelection and we’re facing the possibility of the DNC having as its nominee a guy who regularly speaks his mind about thinking Obama didn’t go far enough, thinks the ACA should be replaced with single-payer healthcare, and doesn’t seem to give a shit less about how unpopular this may make the guys further down the ticket.

I’m not quite sure you could write a better doomsday scenario for the DNC.

304
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:56:08pm

re: #290 Blind Frog Belly White

The trick is getting Dem turnout in a midterm. That is the whole, goshdarn trick. If you can figure it out, please tell everyone. I’ve worked for the party in a midterm election. It is thankless.

305
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:56:11pm

Such nice people.

Manny Pacquiao posts Bible verse that states gay people should be killed

latimes.com

Manny is strangely silent on what’s supposed to happen to women who aren’t virgins when they marry, or what the proper punishment is for disrespectful children.

I wonder why?

306
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:56:13pm

About to start a new thread for the Democratic town hall. Interested to see if the subject of Killer Mike comes up and where that goes if it does. Because I’ve been reading some earlier tweets by this guy and he’s a flat out misogynist homophobe. Nice surrogate, Bernie.

307
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:56:40pm

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

308
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:57:03pm

re: #306 Charles Johnson

Appears he is not the only …interesting… choice of surrogate.

309
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:57:33pm

re: #306 Charles Johnson

About to start a new thread for the Democratic town hall. Interested to see if the subject of Killer Mike comes up and where that goes if it does. Because I’ve been reading some earlier tweets by this guy and he’s a flat out misogynist homophobe. Nice surrogate, Bernie.

First I’m hearing of this. Do I want to know?

310
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:57:51pm

re: #304 Major Tom

The trick is getting Dem turnout in a midterm. That is the whole, goshdarn trick. If you can figure it out, please tell everyone. I’ve worked for the party in a midterm election. It if thankless.

The trick is getting Democrat turnout in a midterm, yet your candidate manifestly give a crap about getting Democrat turnout in a presidential election year.

311
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:57:52pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

Boost away, but be prepared to defend it.

312
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:06pm

re: #306 Charles Johnson

About to start a new thread for the Democratic town hall. Interested to see if the subject of Killer Mike comes up and where that goes if it does. Because I’ve been reading some earlier tweets by this guy and he’s a flat out misogynist homophobe. Nice surrogate, Bernie.

Jesus. Knew the guy was a bit of headcase with what happened last night but damn.

313
Skip Intro  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:17pm

re: #303 Targetpractice

I’m not quite sure you could write a better doomsday scenario for the DNC.

When better doomsday scenarios for the DNC are written, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz will be the one who writes them.

314
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:19pm

re: #293 Major Tom

And look at the GOP now.

Control of both houses of Congress, to the point of denying the President the authority to appoint a successor on the SCOTUS. Control of a majority of State Legislatures, and Governorships, which made them able to gerrymander the House districts, as well as state legislative districts, to keep themselves in power. In 2012, they got 49% of the vote for Congress, but took 54% of the seats.

So, yeah. Look at the GOP now.

315
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:20pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

I actually like a lot of what Bernie says, and if he wins the nomination somehow, which I doubt, I’ll vote for him in a heartbeat over any of the GOP crackpots.

316
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:29pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

You’re more than welcome to like unicorn farts. I thought we were having an adult discussion regarding the concerns that people have about his candidacy, kind of like people have criticized Clinton in the past.

Above all, we deal with reality here, right?

317
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:35pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

The boosting, and possibly the unicorn farts, will be met with scepticism.

318
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:48pm

re: #310 Testy Toad T

I thought he said he was open to it.

319
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:54pm

re: #311 Targetpractice

And with me learning his anti-Immigration views, I am quite hostile to him now.

If he wins the primary, I’ll vote for him, but I much prefer Clinton.

320
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:58:59pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

I strongly agree with some of the problems he sees. At best, I find his plans simplistic and lacking in substance, both in detail-meat and in opportunity to actually make them happen.

321
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:59:19pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

So, basically no boosting of Bernie here at LGF? (full disclosure, I like unicorn farts)

You’re free to boost him. Your unicorn farts are fine but I’ll point where your unicorn fart needs to become a full unicorn dump by campaigning for candidates.

322
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 5:59:59pm

re: #315 Charles Johnson

I actually like a lot of what Bernie says, and if he wins the nomination somehow, which I doubt, I’ll vote for him in a heartbeat over any of the GOP crackpots.

Thank you for saying that.

323
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:01pm

re: #295 Blind Frog Belly White

That would be your own personal Panama.

Indeed.

324
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:14pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

You’re free to boost him. Your unicorn farts are fine but I’ll point where your unicorn fart needs to become a full unicorn dump by campaigning for candidates.

I’m sorry, I think I just died laughing because we have now moved from unicorn farts to unicorn poop.

Have all the updings.

325
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:24pm

re: #318 Major Tom

I thought he said he was open to it.

How about your candidate put his money where his mouth is and do it?

I mean, just, come on. This sort of behavior from a senior elected official is insufferable.

326
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:29pm

re: #318 Major Tom

Not good enough.

To get anything done, you must support those who will vote on things for him to sign.

He must immediately say he will support those who are down ticket.

327
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:32pm

re: #319 Ziggy_TARDIS

I think we’re working things out here.

328
gwangung  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:40pm

re: #318 Major Tom

I thought he said he was open to it.

It’s a half assed statement Sanders made.

329
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:52pm

re: #324 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m sorry, I think I just died laughing because we have now moved from unicorn farts to unicorn poop.

Have all the updings.

I have my moments what can I say.

330
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:14pm

re: #326 Ziggy_TARDIS

He must pledge and oath!

Daddy took an oath.

331
EmmaAnne  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:20pm

re: #304 Major Tom

The trick is getting Dem turnout in a midterm. That is the whole, goshdarn trick. If you can figure it out, please tell everyone. I’ve worked for the party in a midterm election. It is thankless.

So. Much. This.

We call, we canvas, we drop off voter guides. But If people don’t want to come out to the ball park, nobody’s gonna stop ‘em.

332
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:29pm

Unicorn farts and poop.
Ya’ll are weird.

333
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:32pm

Unicorn poop is like cookie dough from a tube.

334
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:39pm

re: #315 Charles Johnson

I actually like a lot of what Bernie says, and if he wins the nomination somehow, which I doubt, I’ll vote for him in a heartbeat over any of the GOP crackpots.

For the record, I think you speak for basically everyone here.

I don’t like Sanders at all. He’s still a vaguely serious adult rather than a fucking bogeyman. Obviously I’d vote for him over the likes of Cruz or Trump or Rubio or who fucking ever.

335
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:46pm

re: #307 Amory Blaine

Seriously, boost away. I think most people will support Bernie if he wins (myself included). There’s just a lot of skepticism about his plan to win.

336
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:55pm

re: #317 Belafon

The boosting, and possibly the unicorn farts, will be met with scepticism.

But they smell like cookies!!!

337
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:22pm

re: #333 Amory Blaine

Unicorn poop is like cookie dough from a tube.

Well duh, how else are the farts going to smell like cookies?

338
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:25pm

re: #234 Major Tom

How gradual is acceptable?

Whatever we have a reasonable shot of getting done without risking all the progress we’ve already made.

339
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:40pm

re: #318 Major Tom

I thought he said he was open to it.

HRC’s actually doing it.

340
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:42pm

re: #331 EmmaAnne

I worked over 80 hours a week every day for 7 months for under minimum wage. I left it all on the field.

341
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:44pm

re: #318 Major Tom

I thought he said he was open to it.

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be mean here but that’s crap. I wouldn’t accept that from Clinton, Obama, or any Democrat seeking the nomination and I’m not going to accept it from Bernie either. Bernie needed to say something like this “Absolutely, I’ll campaign for other Democrats. A Democratic majority in Congress is essential to my agenda being passed.” I don’t think this was too much to ask of him at all.

342
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:03:00pm

Come November, I am voting for the D.

Easy-peasy!

343
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:03:46pm

re: #338 Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto

Screen name made me LOL. The Ignatz icon was just icing on the brick-shaped cake.

344
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:03:58pm

re: #330 Major Tom

Now, where did I say that?

In any case, he has to have allies in power in Congress.

And, even if we get control of the Senate, the House is so gerrymandered by a number of states that the soonest we will get control of Congress in 2022.

345
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:04:10pm

re: #342 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Come November, I am voting for the D.

Easy-peasy!

Same here. I just know who I prefer.

346
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:04:18pm

re: #341 HappyWarrior

I find it hard to believe he won’t when we becomes the nominee, should he get that far.

347
weave  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:04:57pm

Ruh roh on the Republican town hall, some guy is asking about obamacare and he says it’s been a godsend for him. (to Kaisich)

348
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:05:29pm

Also, watch him become pres and every dem on congress is all of sudden his life long best friend.

349
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:05:33pm

re: #346 Major Tom

If he truly believes it’s important to break the Republican control over Congress …why is he waiting until then?

350
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:05:59pm

re: #347 weave

Ruh roh on the Republican town hall, some guy is asking about obamacare and he says it’s been a godsend for him. (to Kaisich)

BURN, HERETIC!!!!

351
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:06:30pm

re: #344 Ziggy_TARDIS

Now, where did I say that?

In any case, he has to have allies in power in Congress.

And, even if we get control of the Senate, the House is so gerrymandered by a number of states that the soonest we will get control of Congress in 2022.

Look at how many Blue Dog Dems fucked over Obama over the last 7 years, and he actively supported many of them.

Running for your party’s nomination and then telling the rank-and-file they’re on the own is a really stupid way of asking people to Feel the Bern.

352
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:06:34pm

re: #341 HappyWarrior

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be mean here but that’s crap. I wouldn’t accept that from Clinton, Obama, or any Democrat seeking the nomination and I’m not going to accept it from Bernie either. Bernie needed to say something like this “Absolutely, I’ll campaign for other Democrats. A Democratic majority in Congress is essential to my agenda being passed.” I don’t think this was too much to ask of him at all.

Being “open” to it is noncommittal, it’s basically Bernie saying that he doesn’t view himself as having any obligation to the party that has allowed him to run in their primary and, if he wins, be their nominee for the general election. Hillary has been boosting for the party’s candidates and raising funds for months now, while he spends his time boasting about how much money he’s raised for himself off. Even if she loses the nomination, Hillary has done more for the DNC that Bernie seems prepared to do even if he does win the nomination.

353
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:06:47pm

re: #348 Major Tom

Also, watch him become pres and every dem on congress is all of sudden his life long best friend.

I remember when this guy became president in 2008, and Democrats ran from him every midterm.

354
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:07:02pm

re: #344 Ziggy_TARDIS

The Democrats must get more organized, and get the various constituencies in their party to help each other out on the issues each of them face.

The African-American community, Hispanic Community, and Muslim communities should each cover each other for example.

355
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:07:50pm

re: #318 Major Tom

I thought he said he was open to it.

The point is it’s something he should be doing right now. The fact that Sanders isn’t contributing to the eventual nominees coattails at the moment shows how much his campaign is divorced from the reality of actually governing. It’s a top down, feel good movement, a cult of personality that is long on platitudes but woefully dismissive of the basic reality of governance.

We’ve seen it with his insistence that he’d make any Supreme Court nominee publicly declare their intent to overturn the Citizens United ruling, which he doesn’t seem to be aware would instantly prejudice them and force their recusal from even hearing such a case. We’ve seen it with his notion that he can push through many of his policies with Executive Orders, and we’re seeing it here, with yet another indication that he doesn’t grasp the importance of building a governing coalition.

356
Brian J.  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:07:56pm

re: #351 Mattand

Look at how many Blue Dog Dems fucked over Obama over the last 7 years, and he actively supported many of them.

Running for your party’s nomination and then telling the rank-and-file they’re on the own is a really stupid way of asking people to Feel the Bern.

The last time liberals had a majority in the House without Blue Dogs or their equivalent was 1964 (for two years) and before that 1936. Face it; without Blue Dogs, there just aren’t enough left-wing Democrats to accomplish much.

357
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:07:57pm

re: #348 Major Tom

Also, watch him become pres and every dem on congress is all of sudden his life long best friend.

And count how many that will just as soon cross the street than be seen sharing it with him. Right now, Obama’s got Chuck Schumer railing against him for cutting funding for anti-terror programs that primarily benefit NYC. You believe that Bernie is going to meet a lot of friendly Democrats who suddenly want to carry water for him?

358
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:08:32pm

re: #353 Belafon

If Democrats stopped listening to the pundits/”Very Serious People,” we would be a lot better off.

359
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:09:03pm

re: #355 goddamnedfrank

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

360
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:09:08pm

re: #356 Brian J.

Demographics should eventually change that, but that time is not now.

361
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:09:10pm

Snickers Great Googly Moogly

362
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:10:51pm

re: #357 Targetpractice

Maybe youre right. I hope we get to see.

363
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:10:55pm

re: #359 Major Tom

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

Sanders lost “independent” when he became a Democrat. If he’s going to use the party name, he needs to pay the party’s dues.

364
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:10:58pm

re: #359 Major Tom

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

If Bernie wants to be an “independent,” then he needs to drop out of this primary and run as such. If he’s going to run for the DNC’s nomination, then he needs to show something resembling loyalty to the party.

365
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:11:27pm

re: #359 Major Tom

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

Then why seek the nomination of a party at all if he’s unwilling to do that?

366
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:11:49pm

re: #356 Brian J.

The last time liberals had a majority in the House without Blue Dogs or their equivalent was 1964 (for two years) and before that 1936. Face it; without Blue Dogs, there just aren’t enough left-wing Democrats to accomplish much.

LOL, so the chickenshit faction of the Democratic Party has a long and storied history.

I’ll say this about the GOP: they know how to close ranks. Granted, it’s around some kind of war mongering religious bigot, but still…

367
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:12:09pm

SMH laughing.

368
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:12:36pm

re: #365 HappyWarrior

I admit after this he has to admit he is a far left Democrat, and no longer an Independent.

369
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:12:53pm

re: #362 Major Tom

Maybe youre right. I hope we get to see.

I don’t, personally. Because I don’t expect the end-result will be anything besides Bernie getting tossed out on his ass 4 years hence and replaced with a “moderate” Republican while progressive politics will be dealt yet another crushing blow to their credibility.

370
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:12:58pm

re: #366 Mattand

LOL, so the chickenshit faction of the Democratic Party has a long and storied history.

I’ll say this about the GOP: they know how to close ranks. Granted, it’s around some kind of war mongering religious bigot, but still…

People united by fear can generally be corralled better than those that aren’t.

371
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:11pm

I admit it, it can be hard for me to let it go, in regards to the past and the hatred.

But when I do, I can be very clear headed and practical.

372
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:21pm

re: #277 Major Tom

If you’re worried about people losing political ambitions, I would rest assured the party will be fine.

One man does not make a party. (Unless you’re a third party.)

Fuck “ambitions”, I’m worried about people losing elections. The party might be fine, but the country damn well won’t be if the Republican legislature doesn’t have to worry about a veto.

373
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:25pm

re: #368 Major Tom

I admit after this he has to admit he is a far left Democrat, and no longer an Independent.

The time for that was months ago when he dropped his independent label and sought the nomination of the Democratic Party for president.

374
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:14:03pm

re: #369 Targetpractice

Is it that Jimmy Carter nightmare again? It’s just a dream, that was 35 years ago

375
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:15:03pm

re: #373 HappyWarrior

The guy who wants money out of politics needs to raise money for the party.

conversation simplified.

376
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:15:52pm

re: #368 Major Tom

Really, because the gun politics and immigration positions he has are well to the right of most democrats.

I am way, way more to his left. I want to see nationalisation of some industries, and a partial return to mandatory service, in the style of places like Norway. Whether it be part-time military, or a revived form of the WPA.

377
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:09pm

re: #375 Major Tom

The guy who wants money out of politics needs to raise money for the party.

conversation simplified.

Sometimes, to end a war, you have to fight in it.

378
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:29pm

re: #372 Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto

Which elections are we currently winning outside of inspirational presidential candidates that appeal to populist desire for systemic change?

379
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:40pm

re: #359 Major Tom

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

Remind me which party’s nomination is he running for again? Remind me which party he’s caucused with his entire legislative career? The time for pretending he’s an independent is long past, there’s only one party who he’ll be able to trust as President, and depriving that party’s down ticket candidates the resources necessary to win office this year and be effective allies is straight up fucking retarded.

Bernie’s coalition of young voters generally don’t turn out in elections, they absolutely never vote in off year elections, so by the time Sanders realizes that he needs a coalition in order to enact any of his agenda it’s going to be too late.

380
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:02pm

re: #374 Major Tom

Reagan caused a huge deal of harm to the nation, and I would argue the world. Not to mention to minority communities in the US.

381
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:06pm

re: #374 Major Tom

Is it that Jimmy Carter nightmare again? It’s just a dream, that was 35 years ago

No, I’m more worried about the McGovern nightmare, the one where we got our asses kicked by a man who nobody would buy a used car from. An election so one-sided that people actually impeached the winner for engaging in high-level ratfking when he didn’t have to.

382
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:16pm

re: #376 Ziggy_TARDIS

See you’re crazy.

J/K

383
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:25pm

re: #289 Belafon

The people, who haven’t risen up much in the last 8 years, will suddenly rise up and get angry at the other politicians who won’t do their bidding.

But they’d better not be pandering, because that’s just wrong.

You know, like how Occupy Wall Street was an unqualified success that managed to fundamentally change certain aspects of our financial system.

384
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:31pm

re: #375 Major Tom

The guy who wants money out of politics needs to raise money for the party.

conversation simplified.

Whether he likes it or not, that’s part of the nature of running a modern campaign. I hate the Citizens United decision and that corporate money is everywhere in campaigns but it is where we are in 2016. Again, my question remains how does Bernie expect to implement his reforms without a Democratic majority in Congress? And frankly as for the money, I saw an article the other day that said he got seven million for his last re-election even though his seat wasn’t in real danger so I think he’s oaky with money.

385
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:18:45pm

re: #379 goddamnedfrank

I thought we were criticizing his past lack of monetary activism.

He said he would be open to it, I would guess, he meant after winning the nomination, should he.

386
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:19:29pm

re: #385 Major Tom

I thought we were criticizing his past lack of monetary activism.

He said he would be open to it, I would guess, he meant after winning the nomination, should he.

What, and risk damaging his “independent” brand?

387
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:20:14pm

re: #382 Major Tom

But I also know we can’t their immediately, and it must be done step by step, and by building coalitions on various issues, and compromise on less important issues (I would be willing to accept the same position on guns as Norway, Sweden, and Finland (They have the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest number of guns per capita, not in that order).

388
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:20:31pm

re: #290 Blind Frog Belly White

I think the problem is more that he speaks of needing a political revolution, but doesn’t put his effort where his mouth is.

Having a “political revolution” is not a policy statement, it’s a bumper sticker. Give me some details about how it will happen, please.

389
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:22:28pm

So Bernie can’t raise money now because if he does, then he’s taking sides and can not be seen as an “independent.” But if wins the nomination, then he’ll take sides and raise money for the party he’s spent months seeking the nomination of.

Makes perfect sense./////

390
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:23:08pm

re: #385 Major Tom

I thought we were criticizing his past lack of monetary activism.

He said he would be open to it, I would guess, he meant after winning the nomination, should he.

So he’s looking after himself, then hoping that all of the candidates whose war chests he never contributed to during the primary season support him in the Fall, even though it will be tempting for many of them to turn blue dog, paint him as a radical socialist and go it alone. Great strategy.

391
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:26:07pm

re: #390 goddamnedfrank

I believe all politics is local. I believe that. I don’t believe when I, at one time, set up appearances of Hillary, Bill, and dozens of other candidates, that it created one single vote. If it raised money, ok. But where are the votes? I wonder, sometimes, how necessary the apparatus is, in general.

392
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:28:50pm

re: #391 Major Tom

Considering that nations with public financing of elections also have similar apparatuses, I would say they are very necessary.

393
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:28:50pm

re: #390 goddamnedfrank

So he’s looking after himself, then hoping that all of the candidates whose war chests he never contributed to during the primary season support him in the Fall, even though it will be tempting for many of them to turn blue dog, paint him as a radical socialist and go it alone. Great strategy.

Hell, why not? After all, it’s unlikely his supporters will help them anyway as he’s done nothing to promote supporting and donating to them, while they might have a better chance (particularly in purple states/districts) of peeling off moderate voters by portraying themselves as opposed to his proposals. They go to Congress by running against a guy who, if he wins they’re already diametrically opposed to, and if he loses they serve as the “loyal opposition” to the Republican who won.

Meanwhile, the progressive candidates whose asses he left out in the cold get branded as being his supporters and having not the resources to fight back because his supporters only see him as being vital for the revolution to take place.

394
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:31:16pm

re: #393 Targetpractice

And if Hillary loses to Trump or Cruz or Ruboto? Where are we then? Since we’re speculating.

395
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:33:10pm

re: #394 Major Tom

And if Hillary loses to Trump or Cruz or Ruboto? Where are we then? Since we’re speculating.

Moderate Democrats still run as such, but on the same platform as she of preserving the accomplishments Obama has made, while progressives faceplant because the demographics they were hoping for decided to stay home in “protest.”

396
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:35:11pm

re: #395 Targetpractice

Not protest. Resignation.

397
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:35:58pm

re: #395 Targetpractice

Which needs to stop.

Many progressives need to see the big picture, and learn to go slow.

398
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:16pm

re: #396 Major Tom

Not protest. Resignation.

If their response to not getting 100% of what they want is to give up and stay home, I don’t know what to tell them.

399
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:21pm

re: #396 Major Tom

Not protest. Resignation.

Same difference. If you’re not prepared to support the party, then why the hell are you looking to be its nominee?

400
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:37:54pm

re: #397 Ziggy_TARDIS

“It won’t happen in your lifetime, but change will one day happen, for sure.”

Isn’t a powerful message.

Also I’m in an “anything is possible” mood this campaign season. Sorry if you’re not.

401
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:38:18pm

re: #399 Targetpractice

I’m not. I’m not him. But I do support his policies.

402
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:39:09pm

re: #400 Major Tom

I would rather have slow and steady progress than a revolution.

Those are messy businesses, and rarely turn out correctly in the short term, and should always be a last resort.

403
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:39:33pm

re: #400 Major Tom

“It won’t happen in your lifetime, but change will one day happen, for sure.”

Isn’t a powerful message.

Also I’m in an “anything is possible” mood this campaign season. Sorry if you’re not.

2008 was an “anything is possible” mood. Know what 2010 was? “Fuck Obama for not being the unicorn I wanted” mood for progressives. Then 2012 was “we can do it again!” mood. And 2014? “Obama’s a fucking sellout!” was again the mood among progressives.

Beginning to see a pattern?

404
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:39:40pm

re: #402 Ziggy_TARDIS

Noted. I’m in the other direction.

405
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:40:04pm

re: #401 Major Tom

I’m not. I’m not him. But I do support his policies.

I’m sure you do. I’m sure you also have no more idea how he’s going to make them reality than he apparently does.

406
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:40:22pm

re: #403 Targetpractice

I think so, you’re saying get an actual unicorn!

407
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:41:15pm

re: #405 Targetpractice

I think he will take us steps in those directions. That is my only expectation. I do not have that with Hillary.

408
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:41:28pm

I agree with a lot of Bernie’s goals, but repeatedly I’m left with a lot of questions about how he’s going to accomplish them and instead of getting answers, I get a lot of “revolution” and hand-waving.

The positions aren’t the things I have issues with here.

409
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:41:35pm

re: #406 Major Tom

I think so, you’re saying get an actual unicorn!

When I find one, I’ll surely do so. Thing is, I don’t think Bernie is a unicorn. I think he’s just another horse with a horn glued on his forehead to fool the same people who thought they were getting a unicorn in 2008.

410
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:05pm

re: #407 Major Tom

I think he will take us steps in those directions. That is my only expectation. I do not have that with Hillary.

Blind faith has a rather nasty habit of leading people places they didn’t want to go.

411
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:14pm

re: #256 Testy Toad T

Do you think we’ll do a better job of forging a Democratic majority by not having our candidate raising money, and by not having him campaign for candidates in vulnerable states and house districts?

Because that’s the alternative with which we’re being presented.

And it’s exactly what Bernie’s doing right now.

Seriously, if I were a Democratic candidate right now, I’d be halfway inclined to have Bernie continue to stay away, given his apparent dick-a-tude.

412
CleverToad  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:18pm

re: #93 teleskiguy

I don’t think this is something to celebrate or be happy about, 9News meteorologists.

[Embedded content]

Crap. The yellowjackets are going to be out by the 1st of March at this rate.

413
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:43:11pm

re: #402 Ziggy_TARDIS

In fact, the only one I can think of that turned out correct immediately was the Danish Revolution in 1848.

The Articles of Confederation left the US as a failed state until 1788. The Tunisian Revolution only started turning out correctly after an incompetent and overly Islamist Ennahda government was defeated in 2014.

414
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:44:33pm

re: #409 Targetpractice

I know I fear that too. But he talks the talk. I have listened to both candidates through speeches and debates and I am swayed by the message. I believe an agenda is only as powerful as the zeal of its supporters. I don’t anticipate single payer in a single term and maybe not two. But I think he will advocate for policies which pulls the country in that direction. I don’t see what is unrealistic about that.

415
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:44:51pm

re: #262 Targetpractice

He also has a history of indifference, if not hostility, to the suggestion that he support other candidates but himself. Can you name any politicians who owe their electoral success to an endorsement from him? How much money has he raised for other candidates?

I’m guessing that number is very close to zero.

416
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:45:09pm

re: #410 Targetpractice

It feels informed. As informed as any faith in any candidate.

417
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:47:21pm

re: #408 klys (maker of Silmarils)

How will Hillary get GOP support? They hate her. Benghazi? What agenda will she get past?

418
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:48:14pm

re: #416 Major Tom

You should never have faith in regards to politics. One should have ideals, and be willing to work towards them, but to put your faith in something like that is a good way to be disappointed.

419
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:04pm

re: #417 Major Tom

Sanders will not get GOP support, unless he is will to sell people out.

And I am afraid that he will sell out Muslims for his own ends.

420
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:31pm

re: #417 Major Tom

How will Hillary get GOP support? They hate her. Benghazi? What agenda will she get past?

Look, the response to questions about what steps he is going to take to accomplish his goals should not be “but what about Hillary?”

That’s not convincing in any way, shape, or form. That does nothing to address my actual issues, which I’m open to listening on. What it does do is convince me that you have no actual argument for my issues.

421
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:43pm

re: #419 Ziggy_TARDIS

Now wait a sec, what makes you think that?

422
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:48pm

re: #419 Ziggy_TARDIS

Sanders will not get GOP support, unless he is will to sell people out.

And I am afraid that he will sell out Muslims for his own ends.

Okay, I disagree with that. I’ve seen nothing about him that indicates that. To further on that, he does have an endorsement from one of two Muslim-Americans in Congress.

423
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:59pm

re: #418 Ziggy_TARDIS

You should never have faith in regards to politics. One should have ideals, and be willing to work towards them, but to put your faith in something like that is a good way to be disappointed.

You really mean, “you should have ideals, but realize they are unrealistic and you need to compromise them”

424
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:50:02pm

re: #414 Major Tom

I know I fear that too. But he talks the talk. I have listened to both candidates through speeches and debates and I am swayed by the message. I believe an agenda is only as powerful as the zeal of its supporters. I don’t anticipate single payer in a single term and maybe not two. But I think he will advocate for policies which pulls the country in that direction. I don’t see what is unrealistic about that.

So he’ll earn a spot in history as a do-nothing president, but at least his supporters did not abandon him, unlike how they met compromise from Obama with opposition and even arguments for his facing a challenger in 2012 so they could be assured a progressive candidate would on the ticket.

425
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:50:44pm

re: #420 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I was really asking, I don’t think my first instinct has been to deflect. I have been conversing. Can I never ask a follow-up?

426
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:51:00pm

Well what about those of us who feel he hasn’t kept up with our ideals on immigration?

427
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:51:34pm

re: #424 Targetpractice

Well you said it. It must be true.

428
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:52:30pm

re: #426 HappyWarrior

Speak up! Push. Agitate. Clinton won’t listen unless you do the same.

429
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:53:23pm

re: #293 Major Tom

And look at the GOP now.

Yes, they’re crazy asshole who run everything.

430
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:53:47pm

re: #421 Not a Sparkly Vampire

re: #422 HappyWarrior

To be honest, some of this is latent paranoia talking.

But I have no idea how he thinks he would get support on anything else he wants, unless he makes a huge compromise somewhere else.

Muslims are still a small community, and are still a small constituency. He would suffer few negative effects from the larger population of voters if he did so. Not to mention, his insistence that racism and bigotry can be solved by economics, and he may not get the situation US Muslims are in.

Compounded with the anti-immigrant attitude shown in the last page, and I could see him selling us out to the wolves.

431
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:53:56pm

re: #428 Major Tom

Speak up! Push. Agitate. Clinton won’t listen unless you do the same.

You’re really naive if you think that’s going to change him from someone whose beliefs on the subject Steve fucking King has praised. I’m not a professional agitator.

432
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:05pm

re: #427 Major Tom

Well you said it. It must be true.

Most Bernie supporters I’ve met are mercurial and prone to tantrums if they feel they’re not getting their way. Why would I believe that they would continue to support him if he chose to compromise on his proposals? And if he’s unwilling to compromise, then how in the hell does he make any of them a reality?

433
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:45pm

re: #431 HappyWarrior

I know it’s too exhausting.

434
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:05pm

re: #425 Major Tom

I was really asking, I don’t think my first instinct has been to deflect. I have been conversing. Can I never ask a follow-up?

You might feel like you are conversing, but I’m feeling like I’m talking to a brick wall. You could have clarified for me the concrete steps that you feel Sanders will be able to take, even with this Congress, in order to implement his goals and agenda.

Instead, you go off onto “but what about Hillary!!!”

That’s not convincing. That’s not conversing. And frankly, I have other shit to do with my time.

435
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:23pm

And the face is revealed.

436
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:35pm

re: #430 Ziggy_TARDIS

To be honest, some of this is latent paranoia talking.

But I have no idea how he thinks he would get support on anything else he wants, unless he makes a huge compromise somewhere else.

Muslims are still a small community, and are still a small constituency. He would suffer few negative effects from the larger population of voters if he did so. Not to mention, his insistence that racism and bigotry can be solved by economics, and he may not get the situation US Muslims are in.

Compounded with the anti-immigrant attitude shown in the last page, and I could see him selling us out to the wolves.

It is. I know you mean well and his immigration record is definitely a legitimate cause of criticism but I think you’re way off if you think he’d sell out Muslims. I think he could really benefit from listening more. As I said, I praise him heavily for seeing ienquality as a problem but my problem with the man is that he doesn’t seem to see that inequality being fixed won’t make us do away with Islamaphobia, sexism, racism, etc.

437
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:56:10pm

re: #432 Targetpractice

Sure.

438
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:56:18pm

re: #433 Major Tom

I know it’s too exhausting.

Okay, now you’re just being condescending.

439
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:57:08pm

re: #438 HappyWarrior

Sorry.

440
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:28pm

re: #437 Major Tom

Sure.

See, this is why I agree with the sentiment that you’re not serious when you say you’ll support Hillary if she wins the nomination. You seem pretty convinced you’re getting a unicorn with Bernie, even refusing to entertain the thought that there is no unicorn, but we’re supposed to believe that if you’re denied your unicorn you’re going to show up and pull the lever for the woman you seem to feel gets off on slaying unicorns.

441
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:01:29pm

re: #440 Targetpractice

Dude you just accused me of having a tantrum. Seriously. How would you respond?

442
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:05:37pm

re: #441 Major Tom

Dude you just accused me of having a tantrum. Seriously. How would you respond?

Perhaps by saying something to convince me that you won’t. Don’t think you’re the first diehard Bernie supporter I’ve run into in recent weeks, because you’re not. And these conversations keep going the same route, from espousing the Gospel of Sanders, to declaring that even if he can’t get what he wants he’ll still be good for the country, to finally just sitting there and muttering that if Sanders can’t do anything what makes anybody think Hillary will be more successful.

And you would not believe how many of the fanatics I’ve run into who, when queried, admitted they were Obama supporters in ‘08, but didn’t bother to show up in ‘10. Progressives don’t exactly have the best track record when it comes to seeing their unicorn through to the bitter end.

443
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:06:14pm

re: #440 Targetpractice

Enough with the fucking unicorns.

I believe in his policies. I see the role of the president as a negotiator between the competing branches of government, and maybe, sometimes, as an agenda setter, if he has populist support.

You disagree in fundamental ways on when change occurs and how and how much. That’s cool, you’ll probably get your candidate, and I’ll vote for her! Win,Sorta-win.

But I’m voting my conscience. Not to practicality out of pessimism, or a higher developed sense of reality, however you may or may not think of it.

444
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:06:40pm

re: #359 Major Tom

It’s hard to be a credible “independent” when you raise money for one party over another, no?

Then don’t run as a goddamn Democrat.

445
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:28pm

re: #442 Targetpractice

I don’t feel the need to convince you of anything. I simply am speaking up because I don’t like how Bernie supporters were being mocked, some said they were going to vote republican if Hillary wins. I spoke up and said it was ludicrous. Ridiculous really, and it went from there. You seem to think I need to convince you of something. Vote your conscience. That is what I’d like you to do.

446
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:58pm

re: #444 Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto

I won’t!

447
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:10:11pm

re: #443 Major Tom

Enough with the fucking unicorns.

I believe in his policies. I see the role of the president as a negotiator between the competing branches of government, and maybe, sometimes, as an agenda setter, if he has populist support.

You disagree in fundamental ways on when change occurs and how and how much. That’s cool, you’ll probably get your candidate, and I’ll vote for her! Win,Sorta-win.

But I’m voting my conscience. Not to practicality out of pessimism, or a higher developed sense of reality, however you may or may not think of it.

You know what I’ve seen? Idealistic presidents who got bled dry once the process of sausage-making began and they realized democracy is not a system where the guy setting the agenda gets the outcome he wanted. When he has to serve 435 different masters, compromise happens and one of the first things usually compromised is ideals. No amount of wanting something is going to make it happen if there are at least 41 people in the Senate who don’t want it to happen.

448
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:10:32pm

re: #375 Major Tom

The guy who wants money out of politics needs to raise money for the party.

conversation simplified.

That’s the job he’s asking us to hire him for.

449
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:11:07pm

re: #447 Targetpractice

I get it you’ve been burned. This guy is not a neophyte though.

450
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:12:47pm

re: #447 Targetpractice

This is exactly why one should not have faith in politics or politicians.

451
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:12:48pm

re: #448 Sophist: Domo Arigato, Marco Ruboto

You’re a few comments behind. Later I explain that I was referring to why he wasn’t fundraising in the past, as an independent, for the party, and point out, fruitlessly, but nonetheless, that he is open to it in the future, fundraising for the party, that is, once he is the nominee, I speculated. It gets good keep reading.

452
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:13:28pm

re: #449 Major Tom

I get it you’ve been burned. This guy is not a neophyte though.

You could have fooled me, because it seems the man is convinced that Congress will bend to his will or it will be replaced. That the things he wants will happen because he wants them to happen.

453
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:14:18pm

re: #452 Targetpractice

If you say so. I don’t see him saying that. But I get it, his actions, or lack of fundraising is crippling the party, etc.

454
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:35pm

re: #378 Major Tom

Which elections are we currently winning outside of inspirational presidential candidates that appeal to populist desire for systemic change?

Fewer senatorial, congressional, gubernatorial and local ones than we need to if we want to get any of Sanders’ agenda enacted.

455
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:52pm

re: #453 Major Tom

If you say so. I don’t see him saying that. But I get it, his actions, or lack of fundraising is crippling the party, etc.

No, I don’t think you quite get it. No amount of wanting something to happen is going to make it happen without action. Bernie’s supporters may be right that we need a revolution, but he’s not the guy to lead it. What speaks louder is the silence from his colleagues, the people who know him best, about all the great accomplishments of his leadership and the change he has shepherded through Congress.

456
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:18:45pm

re: #449 Major Tom

But he is in an unusual circumstance that most politicians aren’t in.

All three of them states in upper New England (Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine) are goofy politically, with stronger than usual 3rd parties and much stronger (and sometimes viable) independents.

In addition, these states are very far away from the US average on Demographics, skewing to be some of the whitest states in the union. This is probably part of the reason why Sanders is so klutzy on race, it is not something he has had to deal with.

Vermont itself is one of the smallest states in the union by population, with only Wyoming being smaller, and even DC has more people. The largest metro in the state is Burlington, with just 108,000 people. That is the same size as Norman, OK roughly. The entire state is smaller than the Colorado Springs metro area.

457
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:21:02pm

re: #456 Ziggy_TARDIS

Not like a guy from Kansas or Hawaii. Those demographics are the norm?

458
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:23:08pm

re: #457 Major Tom

No, they are not. But someone who was Senator of New York would be having a more average experience.

And again, it is not just the demographics up there. It is also the odd political culture you do not see anywhere else in the US.

459
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:24:41pm

re: #324 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m sorry, I think I just died laughing because we have now moved from unicorn farts to unicorn poop.

Have all the updings.

Unicorn poop is Skittles.

Taste the rainbow…

460
Major Tom  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:25:09pm

Lol. ok. ok. you peeps win. Bernie has no chance, will destroy the party, and won’t get any policies past. I think we convinced each other equally. Not that any of you made one positive argument for Hillary, only against Bernie. Not one. Even still, I tap out for the night. I need to be crisp tomorrow. nite all.

461
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:29:19pm

re: #460 Major Tom

Lol. ok. ok. you peeps win. Bernie has no chance, will destroy the party, and won’t get any policies past. I think we convinced each other equally. Not that any of you made one positive argument for Hillary, only against Bernie. Not one. Even still, I tap out for the night. I need to be crisp tomorrow. nite all.

Invoking tu quoque on the way out the door is not a way to win the argument.

462
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:31:20pm

re: #385 Major Tom

He said he would be open to it, I would guess, he meant after winning the nomination, should he.

Yes, after being asked multiple time he admitted that he might not be entirely adverse to, at some point in the future, considering doing something absolutely necessary for getting anything he wants to do to actually happen.

You’ll forgive me if that tepid, grudging admission doesn’t entirely set my mind at ease.

463
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:32:00pm

re: #365 HappyWarrior

Then why seek the nomination of a party at all if he’s unwilling to do that?

Because Bernie knows, as do you, I, and most anyone with a brain that follows American politics, that he’d have a snowball’s chance in Hell at the presidency (and, hell, most Congressional seats outside his own) if he ran outside the two major parties as an independent.

DWS should have told him to stuff it.

464
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:37:01pm

re: #396 Major Tom

Not protest. Resignation.

An equally bullshit rationalisation.

465
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:39:29pm

re: #400 Major Tom

“It won’t happen in your lifetime, but change will one day happen, for sure.”

Isn’t a powerful message.

It’s also not the message of anyone here.

466
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:46:50pm

re: #423 Major Tom

You really mean, “you should have ideals, but realize they are unrealistic and you need to compromise them”

Compromise is how the real world works, sorry; everything else is either unrealistic pie-in-the-sky that never happens or a strongman rams their radical agenda through with fear and violence.

467
TedStriker  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:55:05pm

re: #442 Targetpractice

Perhaps by saying something to convince me that you won’t. Don’t think you’re the first diehard Bernie supporter I’ve run into in recent weeks, because you’re not. And these conversations keep going the same route, from espousing the Gospel of Sanders, to declaring that even if he can’t get what he wants he’ll still be good for the country, to finally just sitting there and muttering that if Sanders can’t do anything what makes anybody think Hillary will be more successful.

And you would not believe how many of the fanatics I’ve run into who, when queried, admitted they were Obama supporters in ‘08, but didn’t bother to show up in ‘10. Progressives don’t exactly have the best track record when it comes to seeing their unicorn through to the bitter end.

Not to mention the whole creepy “If I can’t have it, no one (sane) can” vibe, mainly from Berniacs, but also Bernie himself to a degree.

468
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:04:35pm

re: #457 Major Tom

Not like a guy from Kansas or Hawaii. Those demographics are the norm?

Yeah, describing Obama as a politician “from Hawaii” is really disingenuous. Unless you are referring to his political career prior to highschool.


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