Just Amazing: Snarky Puppy Feat. Jacob Collier & Big Ed Lee, “Don’t You Know”

Real music by real people
Music • Views: 39,821

YouTube

One of the most amazing performances I’ve heard in years. I don’t know what else to say. Absolutely brilliant. Snarky Puppy is the future.

“Don’t You Know”
featuring Jacob Collier & Big Ed Lee
from Snarky Puppy’s live DVD/CD - “Family Dinner - Volume Two”
©GroundUP Music 2016

Buy It Here:
store.snarkypuppy.com
itunes.apple.com

written by Jacob Collier
produced by Michael League
arranged by Michael League & Jacob Collier
recorded and filmed at Esplanade Studios in New Orleans, LA, February 12-14, 2015.

FEATURED GUESTS
Jacob Collier - vocals, harmonizer, & piano
Big Ed Lee - sousaphone

SNARKY PUPPY
Michael League - bass
Bill Laurance - Fender Rhodes
Cory Henry - organ
Shaun Martin - keyboards
Justin Stanton - keyboards
Bob Lanzetti - guitar
Mark Lettieri - guitar
Chris McQueen - guitar
Jay Jennings - trumpet
Mike “Maz” Maher - trumpet
Chris Bullock - sax
Robert “Sput” Searight - drums
Larnell Lewis - drums
Nate Werth - percussion
with…
Candy West - vocals
Peaches West - vocals
Rachella Searight - vocals

engineered by Eric Hartman
assisted by Matt Recchia, Andrés Daza, & Camilo Salazar
mixed by Eric Hartman, Michael League, & Nathan Forsbach
mastered by Scott Hull
directed by Andy LaViolette & Michael League

Jump to bottom

413 comments
2
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:01:51pm

UpChuck was searching his own name on Twitter today. He “liked” this tweet of mine from last December.

3
HappyWarrior  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:02:22pm

re: #2 teleskiguy

UpChuck was searching his own name on Twitter today. He “liked” this tweet of mine from last December.

Embedded Image

Creepy.

4
Charles Johnson  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:03:03pm

Oh yeah! Chuck Johnson and his creepy partner Pax Dickinson have now posted an explanation of how their HUGE IDEA is going to work, and oh brother is this ever some delusional bullshit here. It’s basically an extension of Chuck’s “send me tips and pay me for the privilege” scam.

wesearchr.com

5
Reality Based Steve  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:07:21pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah! Chuck Johnson and his creepy partner Pax Dickinson have now posted an explanation of how their HUGE IDEA is going to work, and oh brother is this ever some delusional bullshit here. It’s basically an extension of Chuck’s “send me tips and pay me for the privilege” scam.

wesearchr.com

Maybe we can hook the Rage Furby up with SteveMcGaziBolaGateRN’s power sales pyramid scam guy from down stairs and kill off 2 birds with one stone?

7
Stanley Sea  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:09:30pm

re: #5 Reality Based Steve

Maybe we can hook the Rage Furby up with SteveMcGaziBolaGateRN’s power sales pyramid scam guy from down stairs and kill off 2 birds with one stone?

He’d need friends and family.

8
FormerDirtDart  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:15:13pm

The terrible horrible biased media is out to get Trump™ and CBS News is horrible news outfit

9
Joe Bacon  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:15:13pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah! Chuck Johnson and his creepy partner Pax Dickinson have now posted an explanation of how their HUGE IDEA is going to work, and oh brother is this ever some delusional bullshit here. It’s basically an extension of Chuck’s “send me tips and pay me for the privilege” scam.

wesearchr.com

I am so sorely tempted to put Ginger Snapped on the Shaklee mailing list…

10
FormerDirtDart  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:18:45pm
11
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:22:17pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Hey all, get a load of this shit!

Can I use WeSearchr to dox or harass people?

No. WeSearchr is a journalistic enterprise that publishes information of journalistic value that is in the public interest. Bounties seeking information that is not publishable or is not of any journalistic relevance will not be permitted. All bounties will be vetted by WeSearchr senior editors before being opened for contributions.

12
Lidane  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:23:05pm

The article Joy Reid is referring to is here.

13
Stanley Sea  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:24:39pm

re: #8 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

The terrible horrible biased media is out to get Trump™ and CBS News is horrible news outfit

fuck this shit.

As Koppel said, boring media would root this shit out day one. Entertainment media keeps the speculation going. Capitalism.

14
Reality Based Steve  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:25:06pm

Well, I’m outta here. Got to get up early, going to a Google Event on leveraging Google Maps and other tools to promote your business. It’s free, and hopefully there will be good coffee and pastry there.

Be good, and don’t take any wooden nickles. (because how stupid would you have to be to think it was real?)

RBS

15
Stanley Sea  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:26:45pm

re: #10 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Where’s the story that states it is a scam? Link went to BS tweet……

16
Charles Johnson  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:27:13pm

I’m not going to mention Chuck’s bullshit business idea. I think I’ll just stand back and watch it sink beneath the waves, like his “journalism” career.

17
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:27:35pm

Dave Weigel retweeted our own Kragar. Countdown to “Dave Weigel is mentally ill and JOURNOLIST!!!” post at GoatNews in 3… 2…

18
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:31:47pm

Sounds like they’re trying to set up a shell “journalism” operation this is basically hired harassment.

19
Lidane  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:31:57pm
20
withak  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:37:28pm

I might be having too much fun with this.

21
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:39:23pm

Here, have some skiing geekery.

22
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:42:09pm

re: #21 teleskiguy

I’m a golfer. Should I be waxing my balls?

23
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:44:51pm

re: #11 teleskiguy

Wesearchr senior editors: Chuck and Pax.

This does not instill me with confidence.

24
Kragar  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:46:24pm
25
Kragar  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:46:54pm

re: #23 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

26
TedStriker  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:47:04pm

re: #22 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I’m a golfer. Should I be waxing my balls?

Dunno, but you might want to if you bowl:

27
TedStriker  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:48:13pm

re: #24 Kragar

[Embedded content]

28
Charles Johnson  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:51:57pm

re: #23 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Wesearchr senior editors: Chuck and Pax.

This does not instill me with confidence.

These guys think they can spew racist hatred all over the Internet, go to white supremacist conferences, threaten to sue everyone who criticizes them, basically be complete fucking asswipes, and still get people to give them money for nothing. They’re certainly not lacking in self-esteem.

29
whitebeach  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:55:00pm

re: #22 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I’m a golfer. Should I be waxing my balls?

All purpose old joke for any group you care to slander on the first or nineteenth tee (my preference is Texas A & M Aggies):

“Hear about the Aggie who broke his back out here yesterday?”

“No. What happened?”

“Fell off the ball washer.”

30
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:55:27pm

re: #24 Kragar

Say what you will, but Ross Douthat takes his role as auxillary junior emergency vice Bill Kristol very seriously.

31
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:55:33pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

I’m not going to mention Chuck’s bullshit business idea. I think I’ll just stand back and watch it sink beneath the waves, like his “journalism” career.

It’s monetized doxxing, with Chuck and Pax as the gatekeepers of information AND keepers of the finances. Would you trust your credit card or PayPal info with these guys?,Even Bitcoin has its own security issues, unless they intend to store it at Coinbase, where Chuck already has an account.

His preoccupation with this latest scam project must be why GotNewsDotCom has only published one story in the last 5 weeks — the Rubio bombshell shockah. Meanwhile, his two crowdfunding schemes are dead in the water, and his self-imposed deadline of May for his Hillary oppo expose is fast approaching.

32
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:56:06pm

Carrying over that scam I wrote about at the end of the last thread, I started thinking about the numbers: The incentives are for signing up recruiters, not actual customers. After you pay your initial fee, and your monthlies, you have to keep coming up with new recruiters in order to get your investment back. So you have to start leaning on your family and friends and getting them mixed up in this stuff. But it doesn’t end there. If the recruiters you signed up sign up recruiters (I would call them descendants) they get a $100 incentive, you get a 100 dollar incentive and the guy who signed you up also gets 100, and so on down the line for each generation of recruiter. As you can see after a couple generations of descendants, the incentives are totaling more than the new recruiters are putting into the business. How long can that go on until the scheme collapses? How far down the pyramid will the recruiters be liable?

That guy (who wanted to recruit me) is a freaking doctor. How could he be so stupid to get involved in something like this? And how sleazy to try to get us involved?

33
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:57:19pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

These guys think they can spew racist hatred all over the Internet, go to white supremacist conferences, threaten to sue everyone who criticizes them, basically be complete fucking asswipes, and still get people to give them money for nothing. They’re certainly not lacking in self-esteem.

I give it six months, and it will either explode in their faces or sink below the waves, forgotten to history.

34
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:58:58pm

re: #32 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

The only people who get rich with these schemes are the early adopters and the founders. Everyone else gets stuck with membership fees or inventory and little income.

35
Kragar  Mar 7, 2016 • 8:59:25pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

“Bounties seeking information that is not publishable or is not of any journalistic relevance will not be permitted.”

This from a man who published the home address of suspected Ebola patients and rape victims, and blamed a train accident on the operator being (possibly) gay.

36
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:01:09pm
37
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:01:15pm

re: #35 Kragar

“Bounties seeking information that is not publishable or is not of any journalistic relevance will not be permitted.”

This from a man who published the home address of suspected Ebola patients and rape victims, and blamed a train accident on the operator being (possibly) gay.

I think that’s code for “information about people we like, or don’t care about, is unpublishable and irrelevant.”

38
TedStriker  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:01:58pm

re: #36 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Cowboys love pussy (cats)…

///

39
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:02:06pm

re: #35 Kragar

This from a man who published the home address of suspected Ebola patients and rape victims, and blamed a train accident on the operator being (possibly) gay.

That’s an accurate representation of the services he’s rendering.

40
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:11:31pm

I don’t ask myself why I do things often but I emailed that guy to warn him. I think he’s more stupid than sleazy, and when this thing goes bad he would be better off getting his name out of it. I should have probably let it drop and walked away, but what the heck.

41
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:16:33pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Can I use WeSearchr to dox or harass people?
No. WeSearchr is a journalistic enterprise that publishes information of journalistic value that is in the public interest. Bounties seeking information that is not publishable or is not of any journalistic relevance will not be permitted. All bounties will be vetted by WeSearchr senior editors before being opened for contributions.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Nice try Chuck.

42
goddamnedfrank  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:18:17pm

At first glance the Wesearchr business model looks a hell of a lot like a criminal money laundering operation.

43
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:24:07pm

If there were ever someone worthy of a toilet for a tombstone, it is CCJ.

44
Charles Johnson  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:24:43pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

At first glance the Wesearchr business model looks a hell of a lot like a criminal money laundering operation.

The idea is completely nuts. People will become “askers” by requesting that someone find dirt on someone else - the “askers” are not the researchers, they’re just people who think there might be some dirt somewhere. Then Chuck and his idiot pal Pax will put this request online, and people will magically appear with money to pay for the dirt to be found, and then someone will magically appear who will find that dirt. Then the money will be split between the “asker” and the “researcher,” with a big percentage for Chuck and his idiot pal Pax.

This might be the most insane business idea I’ve ever seen.

45
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:26:19pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

and then someone will magically appear who will find that dirt.

Someone by chance with a red beard and bad attitude?

half /

46
retired cynic  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:27:11pm

re: #45 Eclectic Cyborg

Someone by chance with a red beard and bad attitude?

half /

Oh, no. That might require work, like using google.

47
Single-handed sailor  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:27:24pm

Heh, according to Fox News 25 miles from San Jose is a remote area of California.

A commuter train derailed in a remote area of Northern California late Monday, sending one of the cars tumbling into a creek and injuring 14 people.

The Alameda County Fire Department said that 10 of the victims suffered minor injuries, while the other four had serious, but non-life-threatening injuries.

Alameda County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Sgt. J.D. Nelson told the Associated Press that the Altamont Corridor Express (ACE) train No. 10 went off the tracks near Niles Canyon Road in Sunol, about 25 miles north of San Jose.

48
Charles Johnson  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:32:11pm

re: #45 Eclectic Cyborg

Someone by chance with a red beard and bad attitude?

half /

No, Chuck is just going to sit back and count all that sweet, sweet money that’s rolling in from all the people who want to pay for his random researchers to find that dirt that just has to be out there, because someone thinks it is. And those people are just going to eagerly hand over their credit card numbers to a guy like Chuck C. Johnson, who is now being mocked even across the right wing universe for being a scammer and a clown with no credibility.

49
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:35:03pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

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

50
goddamnedfrank  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:35:54pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

the “askers” are not the researchers

Ah, but what if they are. That’s my point, it’s a ready made money laundering operation for anybody wanting to turn an illicit income stream into one with a thin patina of legitimacy. They straight up admit that the asker and the researcher can be the same person in the section on how whistleblowers can use their service.

51
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:36:37pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

The idea is completely nuts. People will become “askers” by requesting that someone find dirt on someone else - the “askers” are not the researchers, they’re just people who think there might be some dirt somewhere. Then Chuck and his idiot pal Pax will put this request online, and people will magically appear with money to pay for the dirt to be found, and then someone will magically appear who will find that dirt. Then the money will be split between the “asker” and the “researcher,” with a big percentage for Chuck and his idiot pal Pax.

This might be the most insane business idea I’ve ever seen.

The whole idea of paying money to people for their “information” is asking for trouble, if they’re feeding the Asker and Wesearchr false information, hoping for money. Who verifies the information? And how?

Real reporters get tips all the time, for free, from sources who are motivated by something besides mere greed. In some cases, it’s retribution for some misfortune — getting fired from their job, f’rinstance, but usually it’s for some more noble reason. Even so, the reporter is duty-bound to verify the information — two independent sources for each fact is the general rule — or there will be hell to pay if it’s wrong or false.

52
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:37:52pm

re: #47 Single-handed sailor

A) Holy fuck. We talked about mr. klys taking the ACE train last week (in an effort to avoid Bay Area rush hour traffic).

B) To be fair, I have driven along that stretch. There is not that much there.

C) I still get your point. You could hike to civilization in not much time.

53
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:39:38pm

re: #52 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Also the Sunol grade deserves surgery with rusty implements.

Fuck that stretch of 680. I sat in traffic there at 2pm on a Friday. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?

54
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:42:14pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

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

55
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:43:19pm

re: #48 Charles Johnson

The only kind of money I’d ever give Chuck is this kind:

56
Single-handed sailor  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:44:16pm

re: #52 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Sunol had the most awesome beer bar in the state, 300+ beers, 50 or so on tap, customers kept beer list-cards behind the bar to track all the different beers tried. They had a wood burning stove to keep it warm, a coal from the stove burned down the bar. I think they were the first city to elect a dog as mayor. He hung out at the Lyon Brewery Depot back in the early 80s.

*edited to correct name, I knew it’d come to me sooner or later.

57
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:46:07pm

re: #56 Single-handed sailor

Huh. Shame it is gone. I think I had heard the dog story.

We’ve driven Niles Canyon Road to bypass that stretch of 680 when heading up to Pleasanton for the Highland Games in September. If we don’t do the split thing where I drive up early in the day and mr. klys takes the ACE train - that’s what we did last year. Probably will this year too.

58
Pawn of the Oppressor  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:46:15pm

re: #10 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

…which is why they’re carrying the Turkish flag…?

59
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:48:12pm

Here’s the latest on Chuck’s crowdfunding projects.

At gofundme, his Hillary Secret Opp Project stands at $1,055, where’s it’s been for months now. Target is $40,000, and Chuck said he was planning the big reveal for the Dems’ May convention.

At generosity, his legal defense fund (now moot) stands at $4,425. Supposedly, he was raising $10,000 to battle Planned Parenthood getting his source for his buddy’s Daleiden’s bogus videos — it’s actually the National Abortion Federation, and the judge in the case has let Chuck off the hook for now. I assume Judge Orrick knows he has bigger fish to fry, and going after Chuck’s meddling is pointless right now.

So, total target funding is $50,000, and total raised to date is $5,475. Rather indicative of the trust Chuck inspires in potential donors.

60
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:50:29pm

2Zg+zw9Dv0hKxLJyD7dCisEwdcgst+KiKr2gpxBL86R+uNKreNN+MvTPvQalURItqzgTQGBWmt+XA84LSSaryvEpcdVC2TsyDLAeiS2pKmiff8lbbuCV4J8gmB3GFuDfij86/8kkOlko0rAQIZmfLC8HWL58krNk53683ygpBmYGWLpdQSIKvRz+C2wi4YUSCbn1qH8XjShdboK/2sAk+e6pX2EgPxVkyXQutsn3DZXOGYWPb5EXrHDYt+sb2XsdBYKpXA7Q03WIO6EW7OgTBhQmSfEVotrvTQzEKrBGazHjKK/Png4ZHO9Geh5Vfo+pS88tT/QQLU4TBRbEoaCYSozUPZMXJhkqwJm/4l7uPN0=

61
BeachDem  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:52:38pm

re: #35 Kragar

“Bounties seeking information that is not publishable or is not of any journalistic relevance will not be permitted.”

This from a man who published the home address of suspected Ebola patients and rape victims, and blamed a train accident on the operator being (possibly) gay.

When has rage furby ever published anything of any journalistic relevance?

So, let me get this straight—people are supposed to pay him for the privilege of providing him with tips? Isn’t that kind of ass backwards? Well, of course it is.

62
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:53:25pm

re: #59 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Yeah but he still raised $5500 somehow. Shit, I could pay off my car note with that.

63
goddamnedfrank  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:53:46pm

By controlling the askers, the questions, the approval process and financially incentivizing the cognitive biases of everyone involved they’re just seeking to create a market for their own brand of “curated” innuendo.

They’re probably going to spend a lot of their own money just inventing participants and using the site to create the appearance that rumors they want to spread come from other people. The entire operation will effectively function like a sock puppet factory.

64
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:53:50pm
65
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:54:24pm

re: #61 BeachDem

He’s been down that road before. Remember when he started charging I think it was $1 for people to submit tips to him on his website, defending the fee by saying it was his guarantee people didn’t mercilessly spam him?

66
Kragar  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:55:32pm
67
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:55:39pm

re: #65 Eclectic Cyborg

He’s been down that road before. Remember when he started charging I think it was $1 for people to submit tips to him on his website, defending the fee by saying it was his guarantee people didn’t mercilessly spam him?

And that has generated reams of copy over at GotNewsDotCom since its inception.

Oh, wait …

68
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:58:04pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

By controlling the askers, the questions, the approval process and financially incentivizing the cognitive biases of everyone involved they’re just seeking to create a market for their own brand of “curated” innuendo.

They’re probably going to spend a lot of their own money just inventing participants and using the site to create the appearance that rumors they want to spread come from other people. The entire operation will effectively function like a sock puppet factory.

Chuck’s favorite writers, like Shannon K-whatever and weev, will probably be among the Askers and/or researchers.

BTW, the domain name wesearcher.com was already taken, it seems. Looks like a placeholder for something. So, Chuck and Pax dropped the third “e” to get something similar.

69
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 7, 2016 • 9:59:25pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

At first glance the Wesearchr business model looks a hell of a lot like a criminal money laundering operation.

My first thought was Multi Level Journalism Marketing. I’m sure it will be ethical and freedom-y.

70
BeachDem  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:00:02pm

re: #65 Eclectic Cyborg

He’s been down that road before. Remember when he started charging I think it was $1 for people to submit tips to him on his website, defending the fee by saying it was his guarantee people didn’t mercilessly spam him?

And what a phenomenal success THAT was!

71
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:00:13pm

re: #22 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I’m a golfer. Should I be waxing my balls?

That’s between you and your ball-handler.

72
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:02:29pm

Thought I tell the Lizards something.

I bought a ski helmet today from my ski shop. A Smith Zoom youth medium (hey, it fits, that’s all that matters) with a picture of Angry Birds on one side. It was $37.17.

I wore a helmet while skiing today for the first time in over two years.

73
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:02:55pm

re: #72 teleskiguy

I dig it.

74
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:03:17pm

re: #72 teleskiguy

Thought I tell the Lizards something.

I bought a ski helmet today from my ski shop. A Smith Zoom youth medium (hey, it fits, that’s all that matters) with a picture of Angry Birds on one side. It was $37.17.

Embedded Image

I wore a helmet while skiing today for the first time in over two years.

Good to hear. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

75
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:07:01pm

re: #72 teleskiguy

jFyyDeat0R+y8uo27tBAk7+YD7cTyFBQrrdqa6IFd34akbUA6nRaLWFvbePcEH0M3uQ+VeHPWPcjQbYBcVMsiv1QF6vWhB3NZ5kiZvIKrVZAeszx/Wce8TOudgtAXqypKIBp8CRJSyc4nAkhjy+KOJSZo2XdBVtkwATNIrQc9rm4YMjP1FI2gHr1ZfKS504UGGIkyYngkkM6UxQtKF1xl4CcxP9kwfkqOEml4GeJHDSFFlfDXsmgiq1mZ5zzFokt5Ac/S5EIv3iokNaRwX0qPT47FON3f873H5ovSaOl0UFqHJ2Fq1UIXtiI5DNKgXmD9PsN9Cwt/JPJ8U8h8kHJzTvkkRlBNFVy900oyXJKWYZYFGhciS/+nHj+X/3iDkdSFRo67dnem6xvM/QopHqcbjaUAI+nLiacYiU+K89MK0fW5T2xXPk/BfgmJgwsRsKbmi1ZQEUODyOh79V8hvue1vWhtw92AXHyAnLj+mf1trAZn1pOHKwqaVTIAwf0QgLj82KdIP3LAgSEYgl8pnFHso2hD/hkqIetDJV958mqIxVaQBWquA5SCs64N9IS09vCCJ/Nh3wB74/BGBJwBFjtdpvPobHwwBvUBYUFyeG9Uxlq5MvCP0lM1gbOUegmPLFha2wpaGkEErBYTlOoqSrWO5w2zEnHHqbzuINghaDgto90xx9e7yzOP88KM8swt4wJb3DHWtZAeGB7FFLz62CoeuR7ic5R+4H4bDM5eEMsaVzADWOULXPUm0OydGRDxqxdlgfzKVqPl8qg7fjeUrIanOJL9+K6mmpBN1Px0h85SIecx1TVXkQ34/pLt2ESaccGPqHkD+xqklk2h0oz8Il+/amdLey5e+zCGv8x3BXYvCY8i+eVqv67ZkABgKcWfschuoR7dz8n99UPYrqTSl7OKFZHI/zoVgZ6yucjxE096DrMQmrRYgf+S5lL1mbKJOCsC7yOqveWdNHgJVOjAuJHTxw5YQ+SABDS4hwgiaiI7rgeDIyt0j5KvS+QrfLTKdnq3c+Luv+mPSc=

76
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:18:54pm

re: #75 klys (maker of Silmarils)

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

This, coming from a guy who randomly blurts out “I’m the best skier on the mountain!” to strangers at the top of ski runs.

77
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:18:55pm

72JX0KzO0BbqDlqgH11QylF0aCMs9QigThMFxxUwr/RSttWcr1mncBfknIhJ9I/smk3k0FOXzVNigQmavIfJoSTNU1gCyvk9GwbFHkkLWTOJxfVEqwkS9nZ6tNzKrub4VkdqETuTmndT4NxnzvdbQWoxTIDmI2HC7oiXCQVvOQkyDXWiATCGMPxx242p5NQrCUFoA1jYSYI1wE9I7dzGpMo8kNaI7ZuvmzJXDd6jrrfByOnLWl2UZ7sE1Z/j3B+OdoaZLcga/0BZQAN0xcNqiZ4AqnJZlnvUoYoebmeEmMXW1aQ6cQRcuTmi3XkDhq9vw13Bq8k9Pst3/rnxTnX3V1/UzsLmlRyCO/qzD8H4p5IquDFuGpwboSsWO8aGPPuPk14kZLstQLfJ1ScZ5xMDPddMEQVbSKKSQqk4IxhQh70JAabaOFp2LS7pNH2qxSQR3v8idDa6WZMNojLJVX+GHPz3hgdJKrkW/CoRDKT3NXzrWaUw/I6i/k67cgAzEIF1UANOu9ahqeo2UTcMpdY8diIRv502uS1C8XyfmBY2QV6z2LZeIl5sfreJwN6IXP84c7t+YbTkHMvlP0iVIhA+TicSM5Imizauizj2JKtGmt9J6+rV4g6hpbbuVDV/NjX2t/2w0rNAGGeTK7M1TY+Uw+TQF8UcVQFfaGoZrO1R6rXwhY8TPfeU2cuWjl0FtoBxEkA+ZPvh8gItw3ph0KwicTge/p9Q6z+KgXo2p1hIi1a3INtKNxX/5xyOvMkUy6CVj5DgoPfer3Ym8jYnfaWhOoUlO67C/Z+J/y+4EdjA5/bqblyVceSrUqkoSBA6WJmwuyWGUvY7hmxIzojgx2dzYWiNPVsD5JLOlBwHIjBw0Fy3luR0c3dIMT1ManMV8pQETuwtOl9XpwdIdyscM4BIZbohSe6Lr3pcf6HzEoTvMl3bxKxOHo6uPhUyaqIp89s6RfSYwALNXSrtEnz/0KXDcGKSDHow1Xvs

78
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:22:54pm

re: #76 teleskiguy

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

Besides, chicks should totally dig the Angry Birds theme.

Because birds, get it? /ducks

79
freetoken  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:25:25pm

I’m not sure you all caught this one, but the Idiocracy certainly is imminent:

Donald Trump’s Ex-Wife Marla Maples Is Joining Dancing with the Stars

Marla Maples, who is best known for having been married to current presidential candidate Donald Trump, is joining Dancing with the Stars for season 22, sources tell E! News. ABC doesn’t comment on casting rumors, and viewers can expect to find out the official line-up of celebs when they are unveiled on Good Morning America on March 8, just ahead of the season premiere on March 21.

BTW, Tom Bergeron tweeted that his mother died on Fri/Sat:

Sad to lose both parents in such a short time.

80
Single-handed sailor  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:35:43pm

A welcome headline.

Folsom Dam floodgates open for first time in 5 years

FOLSOM, Calif. (KCRA) — After a significant weather system moved through Northern California over the weekend, the floodgates of Folsom Dam were opened Monday to let out the most amount of water all winter, officials said.

Three of the dam’s eight gates were opened at about 1 p.m. for the first time in five years to provide for flood control as the region welcomed some much-needed rain to the Valley and more snow in the Sierra.

Water managers at Folsom Lake said releases from the lake will likely increase ahead of the next storm, expected to move in later this week, as inflows remain at 27,000 cubic feet per second, according to the Bureau of Reclamation.

The maximum capacity of Folsom Lake is 977,000 acre-feet. As of Friday, the water levels stood at 610,000 acre-feet, but by Monday morning, the lake had risen to 684,000 acre-feet.

Here in Diablo Valley I measured 3.45” of rain over the past 3 days. The annual total is 15.09”. I heard mention of several feet of snow in the sierra so we could pull a non-drought winter out of this after all.

81
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:37:32pm

re: #47 Single-handed sailor

Dude, I just realized that was J.D. from Mythbusters.

Go J.D.!

82
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:39:42pm

...

83
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:40:26pm
84
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:46:34pm

That crazy weird wind-up instrument that sounded like a whole band that was posted here on Saturday night? There are How It Works videos.

85
SoundGuy 2016  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:53:14pm

I liked the WC grew up in Dublin. When it was hard.

86
freetoken  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:55:43pm

re: #83 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Good for the water supply up north… but down here, we are dry. Today’s rain was about half an inch in many places other than the mountain slopes.

87
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:57:42pm

I skied in almost a foot of fresh snow today. Fun was had by all. And the snow was quite welcome after an historically dry February.

88
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 10:59:38pm

re: #86 freetoken

Good for the water supply up north… but down here, we are dry. Today’s rain was about half an inch in many places other than the mountain slopes.

It was either blue skies or a downpour here today, depending on the time of day. Additional factor: did I have to be outside or not.

I have college friends coming to visit in May (so excited about that) and trying to plot some potential options for them - I’d love to recommend Death Valley, but that’s going to depend on what time the passes open.

CA is just really fucking big by East Coast standards.

89
TedStriker  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:20:26pm

re: #81 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Dude, I just realized that was J.D. from Mythbusters.

Go J.D.!

Indeed it is.

90
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:27:48pm

re: #89 TedStriker

Indeed it is.

I feel like if I had seen him instead of just reading the name, I would have recognized it faster. >.>

91
goddamnedfrank  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:40:07pm

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

92
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:45:26pm

re: #91 goddamnedfrank

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

93
freetoken  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:47:26pm

Ever since Trump started the rumors of his candidacy, Nate Silver has been doing hand stands to prove that Trump wasn’t going to run, or that he had no chance to get the nomination and Trump would jump quickly… to running through every possible scenario that could give Rubio the nomination… and now Silver is trying this:

Bloomberg Might Have Produced President Trump

Well, whatever.

Some people get so enchanted by numbers.

94
teleskiguy  Mar 7, 2016 • 11:54:37pm

re: #91 goddamnedfrank

goG4xwXzkkEWgCxP3UrsS+U7IR4/4RawtqY9+BCzUx3z7fNsjue42frOpXvRU9jVDAMAUSgvi954xAofzOZ37C+USSVjutj9UVN1NRG6RqRD3ep/iPSReTr/LpDZhRcN1KVevM1ILNyvXMotzH3HMwc1r4RGeWAxv3/g58RytFydycShw8MKs7aVg69ter5UEUgsL+MsP3WWAgY/cd1bliQFAiblOGnOteScwFVZH17LRypwDZfVZMqRBdJiW+jrT4JA9hjCr7GzewBF0P2xJZvLwssAMtcaZndpIseeg1g=

95
goddamnedfrank  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:00:39am

This is the shit that’s killing me, people just flat forgetting how precariously close to ruin the entire US auto industry was. Ford may not have taken the bailout but their CEO was right there before Congress begging for it, and even praising it two years later.

Thanks for sitting down with us. Does Barack Obama deserve credit for saving Detroit?
The government’s intervention was absolutely key to helping create a chance for GM and Chrysler going forward. That’s why I testified on behalf of GM and Chrysler, as you know. The reason we did was that we believed—like two presidents [Bush and Obama]—that if GM and Chrysler would have gone into freefall bankruptcy, they would have taken the supply base down and taken the industry down plus maybe turned the U.S. recession into a depression. So I think we did the right thing by testifying on their behalf and I think that the government did the right thing for that critical industry at that time to step in and help.
But if your competitors can conduct themselves in a fiscally irresponsible way, then declare bankruptcy, get bailed out by the government and launch anew, is the system rigged in a sense against companies like Ford that meet their financial obligations?
I think that it goes with the circumstance…They clearly were bankrupt companies. But having said that, I think it was a bigger issue of systemic risk both on the financial system and also on the manufacturing system. We’ll never know exactly whether we could have let both those industries go under and survive. But what I knew then and what I know now, I think the government did the right thing. The chance of catastrophic failure was very high. I’m a capitalist and a market-driven person and so day in and day out, so [generally] I’d like to continue to see that the market decide who gets a chance to be in business.

People forget how frozen the credit markets were at the time, that foreign car manufacturers were seeing dramatic sales drops and in many cases were getting their own bailouts. People forget that the trickle down effects on the parts manufacturers and dealerships spelled out so much systemic risk that just one of the Big Three going down would have cost millions of jobs in the US, most of which never would have returned. People forget that certain brands, like Saab, simply did vanish from the market entirely, never to return.

96
goddamnedfrank  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:21:00am

Again, this is what people were predicting at the time if there had been no bailout:

“The domino effect would be immense,” said Deborah Thorn, a bankruptcy attorney who represents auto parts makers. “You can’t afford to produce parts if you’re not being paid.”

And because the automakers have so much overlap in their supplier base, a closure at one parts maker could cause GM rivals to shut plants as well.

The Center for Automotive Research, an Ann Arbor, Mich., think tank pushing for a bailout, estimates a loss of nearly 2.5 million jobs if just half of the Big Three manufacturing capacity were shuttered - a possible scenario if GM files for protection.

About 240,000 of those job losses would be at the automakers, while 800,000 would be at various suppliers and dealerships. The other 1.4 million job losses would be at businesses that rely on automaker spending.

For example, the Big Three have made deep cuts in their advertising budgets. That is already fueling media industry layoffs. Reduced spending by auto company employees who lose their jobs would hurt stores and other businesses in cities where plants are located.

This is why I’m alarmed by Bernie’s glib assurances that he can simply upheave the entire healthcare landscape and effectively disrupt and destroy the healthcare insurance industry without causing profound destabilizing effects to the US economy. His campaign runs almost entirely on these kinds of idealistic raw assertions completely divorced from care or even the slightest nod towards basic pragmatic concerns. I’d be much more comfortable if Democrats nominated someone to go against Trump who presented the real world complex problems we face as if they required complex, nuanced, detailed solutions instead of simply pitting his abjectly simplistic cocksure unsupported assurances against more of the same.

97
teleskiguy  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:35:16am

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

98
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:42:54am

re: #58 Pawn of the Oppressor

…which is why they’re carrying the Turkish flag…?

That’s nobody’s business but the Turks!

99
Targetpractice  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:53:32am

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Again, this is what people were predicting at the time if there had been no bailout:

This is why I’m alarmed by Bernie’s glib assurances that he can simply upheave the entire healthcare landscape and effectively disrupt and destroy the healthcare insurance industry without causing profound destabilizing effects to the US economy. His campaign runs almost entirely on these kinds of idealistic raw assertions completely divorced from care or even the slightest nod towards basic pragmatic concerns. I’d be much more comfortable if Democrats nominated someone to go against Trump who presented the real world complex problems we face as if they required complex, nuanced, detailed solutions instead of simply pitting his abjectly simplistic cocksure unsupported assurances against more of the same.

I think what continues to get me about the Sunday debate is Bernie was arguing against actions that would drive gun manufacturers out of the US, but was strongly in favor of voting against bills that saved the auto industry. And against things like the Import-Export Bank because he sees it simply as subsidies for major corporations. So the “progressive” candidate is in favor of destroying millions of jobs, but also in favor of protecting gun makers.

100
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 1:05:01am

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

More generally, our politicians are simplifying the nature of our issues, far too much.

The worst offender is of course Trump. Who uses small words. Smaller sentences. Big hands. Small sentences.

But the rest do the same thing, just to a lesser extent.

To accept reality of life in the United States in 2016 is to accept we are a nation of 320 million people, many of whom just get by from week to week, and that our larger institutions, whether public or private (e.g., large corporations such as auto makers) are large for good reasons, and are flawed.

There is no simple solution to making life better in the US. Even gun laws are not a simple solution because as you know there are so many gun owners that no one is ever going to take away and meaningful percentage of guns in our society.

Same with trade laws, Trump’s bloviating not withstanding. No amount of words can replace the complex relationships of international trade which are necessary to supply the bits and pieces of our complex lifestyles.

We bailed out automakers for the same reason we bailed out the big banks - because we didn’t want to face the unknown consequences of such large disturbances in our economy that would happen if these large institutions suddenly stopped.

A similar reason is behind why we don’t suddenly change our military. The BRAC process has worked itself out over decades; the requirement to reduce bases after the cold war was recognized but also known was that drawdowns were going to be slow. No sudden dumping of labor onto the labor market was the goal.

Anyone who has had real responsibility in making stuff, or managing offices, knows the outlandish claims made - such as Cruz’s promise to abolish the IRS - are nonsense.

That Trump can get masses of drooling mobs to salute his idiocy is just a sad commentary on how poorly our politicians have paid to the real or perceived plight of blue-collar Americans.

And that brings me to Bernie - no matter how much he wants to blame Wall Street for everything, the reality is choices are made on Main street in every town that leads to people making life decisions that they must. Bernie can whine about the Waltons, but while he does so he ignores that the Waltons became rich because Americans wanted cheap goods, not necessarily high-quality goods. That was a choice by Americans.

Furthermore, the reason Wall Street has so much influence is because on Main Street USA the idea was sold long ego that Americans ought to buy equity in companies as a form of savings and as a way to get rich. Good luck to Bernie, trying to address those.

101
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 1:08:41am
102
goddamnedfrank  Mar 8, 2016 • 1:31:49am

I need a Safari / Twitter plugin that automatically blocks everyone who follows certain accounts except (maybe) people I’m already following. Take the wesearchr account for instance, there’s only two people I follow that choose to follow that piece of trash account, for what I’m only assuming must be surveillance purposes (I’m looking at you wheatdog!) Going through and blocking everyone else who follows that shit account is work, I do it because for me maintaining a quality Twitter experience is all about preemptively blocking racist assholes, but there has to be an easier way.

103
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 1:47:59am

re: #100 freetoken

More generally, our politicians are simplifying the nature of our issues, far too much.

Twitter is there to let us know who we are hanging with or what we had for lunch. There is no way to convey any nuance or balanced argument in its current format.

But it is a major source of news, in fact, Twitter itself is news.

104
Ming5000  Mar 8, 2016 • 1:56:56am

re: #22 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I’m a golfer. Should I be waxing my balls?

Waxing the shaft to improve your stroke might also be fruitful.

105
Ming5000  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:24:32am

Charles, can you let us know the mood of the reactions?

Charles’s tweet from 7 March regarding Bernie’s GMO comment
106
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:31:14am

re: #102 goddamnedfrank

I am on surveillance detail, but now that I’m back to work in China, Twitter is only a sometime thing for me.

107
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:31:55am

re: #105 Ming5000

I am not Charles, but I believe killer tomatoes with walnut genes were mentioned.

108
Ming5000  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:39:35am

re: #107 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I am not Charles, but I believe killer tomatoes with walnut genes were mentioned.

Oh! haha… now I got to it in the thread downstairs.

BTW, not sure how everyone feels, I love the way Charles just simply cuts to the “fuck off”, and does it so creatively.

109
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:42:10am

re: #108 Ming5000

Oh! haha… now I got to it in the thread downstairs.

Embedded Image

BTW, not sure how everyone feels, I love the way Charles just simply cuts to the “fuck off”, and does it so creatively.

Little did we know “The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes” was an accurate portrayal of our future.

110
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:45:20am

I know a number of scientists who do not have trouble with GMOs as such, they just do not like the way that they are left unregulated in the hands of private corporations that are more concerned with profits than with long-term effects.

111
Ming5000  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:47:59am

This is the only thing I could find online about the GMO tomato with walnut genes. From 2010:

No GMO’s - Another Reason to Eat Organic: I’ve just started learning more about what organic really means and what are the benefits of eating organic foods. Some of you have heard of GMO’s (Genetically Modified Organisms) or GM foods. Think mad scientist meets food…

In mid-1990’s, tomatoes were bred with a walnut gene to make the skin stronger and to extend grocery store shelf life. So everyone with a nut allergy was suddenly allergic to tomatoes…go figure.

So, I am not sure if the lab GMO happened, or if it did would the gene in question carry over into nut allergy. I doubt it

112
Ming5000  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:55:50am
Are “genetically engineered” — which is the designated ballot measure language — and “genetically modified” really interchangeable?

When we are discussing GMO’s I think people are intending to discuss the laboratory genetic splicing and not the plant based hybridization and selection for traits.

Using the term Genetically Engineered GE when appropriate helps narrow the discussion.

113
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:15:29am

re: #110 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I think there is a lot of room for discussion of the tactics employed by large corporations (coughcoughMonsantocough) without flipping into hysteria like so often happens when the topic of GMOs comes up.

114
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:21:27am

re: #113 klys (maker of Silmarils)

A scientist friend of mine was very pragmatic about it: he says if he cannot get government funding for his research, then he will just have to turn to private corporations, who have little interest in sharing their findings to promote the common good of society.

115
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:23:53am

re: #114 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

A scientist friend of mine was very pragmatic about it: he says if he cannot get government funding for his research, then he will just have to turn to private corporations, who have little interest in sharing their findings to promote the common good of society.

I should be clear that I am not necessarily against private corporations funding research.

Some of the tactics I have heard about from Monsanto stretch the limit of my goodwill in that area, assuming they are true. I am not going to look up specifics at this hour though. Perhaps tomorrow, if I manage to get enough writing done.

116
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:28:15am

re: #111 Ming5000

This is the only thing I could find online about the GMO tomato with walnut genes. From 2010:

So, I am not sure if the lab GMO happened, or if it did would the gene in question carry over into nut allergy. I doubt it

I find it hard to believe that the walnut gene in a GMO tomato would trigger someone’s nut allergy. Gene splicing is not like mixing walnut paste and tomato sauce together. Allergies are reactions to specific compounds in a food product, not to specific genes within an ingredient’s genome. Putting it another way, someone with a peanut allergy can go into anaphylaxis upon smelling peanut butter, but would be unaffected (presumably) by eating green peas, which are also legumes like peanuts and share similar genetic structures.

On the other hand, someone who is convinced that a walnut-mato will cause an allergic reaction might be entirely capable of creating the allergic reaction himself — kind of like the placebo effect noted in clinical trials. Whether it would kill him is another story. I just don’t buy it.

117
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:29:55am

re: #115 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I should be clear that I am not necessarily against private corporations funding research.

Some of the tactics I have heard about from Monsanto stretch the limit of my goodwill in that area, assuming they are true.

The problem comes when these corporations have enough political influence to isolate themselves from the social and economic consequences of their actions.

118
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:34:38am

re: #117 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The problem comes when these corporations have enough political influence to isolate themselves from the social and economic consequences of their actions.

Especially when they are rich in relation to the developing country in question, a dynamic in some of the supposed abuses overseas.

119
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:38:36am

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Especially when they are rich in relation to the developing country in question, a dynamic in some of the supposed abuses overseas.

I’m waiting for news of the inevitable environmental disaster created by Chinese corporations somewhere in Africa or Southeast Asia. Their track record in China is already abysmal.

120
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:40:25am

Did Bernie say something against GMO recently?

121
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:41:42am

re: #120 Nyet

122
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:45:30am

re: #121 klys (maker of Silmarils)

OK, that’s an old stance of his. And Hillary is also pro-labeling.

Though Bernie is the one pushing this nonsense.

123
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:45:35am

re: #121 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The simple fact is, Americans want to know what is in the food they’re eating and whether that food is genetically engineered.

And I find it both suspicious and reprehensible that there are corporations that want to prevent people from finding out what they are eating.

124
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:47:02am

re: #121 klys (maker of Silmarils)

This statement is to a certain extent true, but not to the degree Sanders believes. A distinct minority of Americans — dare I say the term yuppies? are concerned about GMO. The vast majority of Americans are more concerned about getting enough food on the table at prices they can afford.

125
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:48:13am

re: #123 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And I find it both suspicious and reprehensible that there are corporations that want to prevent people from finding out what they are eating.

Nobody is preventing people from finding out what they are eating. A tomato is a tomato, whether GMO or not.

Pushing for labeling of GMO tomatoes as if they were somehow deficient is what is reprehensible.

127
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:50:27am

re: #124 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

This statement is to a certain extent true, but not to the degree Sanders believes. A distinct minority of Americans — dare I say the term yuppies? are concerned about GMO. The vast majority of Americans are more concerned about getting enough food on the table at prices they can afford.

I think that an interest in knowing what you are eating goes beyond foodies and yuppies. It is about making informed choices, which is a basic aspect of individual freedom and personal responsibility.

And I am suspicious of any group that wants to limit access to information needed to make informed choices, especially ones that affect diet and health.

128
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:52:45am

re: #126 Nyet

Over 80 percent of Americans support “mandatory labels on foods containing DNA”

The point you are making here is a good one: a lot of people are not getting enough basic education in science to make informed choices even if presented with the information they need.

129
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:52:51am

re: #127 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Indeed. Here’s how every single food item should be labeled:

Image: 19-4-banana-labels-color-by-Pat-Linse.jpg

Otherwise it’s not an informed choice!

/

130
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:53:27am

re: #128 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The point you are making here is a good one: a lot of people are not getting enough basic education in science to make informed choices even if presented with the information they need.

Note: GMO labeling doesn’t contribute to making an informed choice, hence there should be no mandatory GMO labeling.

131
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:55:16am

re: #129 Nyet

Indeed. Here’s how every single food item should be labeled:

Image: 19-4-banana-labels-color-by-Pat-Linse.jpg

Otherwise it’s not an informed choice!

/

If those are chemicals that are present in the fruit in its natural, unaltered state, then that is going too far, but you are presenting a straw-man argument.

The purpose of labeling is to inform consumers what has been added or altered in the product over and above the way it grew.

132
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:56:48am

re: #131 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If those are chemicals that are present in the fruit in its natural, unaltered state, then that is going too far, but you are presenting a straw-man argument.

The purpose of labeling is to inform consumers what has been added or altered in the product over and above the way it grew.

Exactly. GMO products grow naturally, so by your own logic there should be no GMO labeling.

133
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:57:48am

re: #132 Nyet

Exactly. GMO products grow naturally, so by your own logic there should be no GMO labeling.

but they have been altered

134
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:59:25am

All crops grown for human consumption have been altered. Humans have been doing that since they figured out that they could grow this shit for food, because they wanted to make it easier and more successful on a regular basis.

We’re just able to do it a lot more successfully now.

Same thing with selective breeding.

Are we going to be hung up on this topic forever?

135
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 3:59:46am

re: #133 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

but they have been altered

Um, no, they have not been altered “over and above the way [they] grew”. I’m using the very same criteria you propose, sorry.

If you mean they had been altered genetically long before they grew - true, but so was every other organism on the market. So all food should be labeled as genetically modified (or none of it).

136
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:00:32am

re: #127 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I think that an interest in knowing what you are eating goes beyond foodies and yuppies. It is about making informed choices, which is a basic aspect of individual freedom and personal responsibility.

And I am suspicious of any group that wants to limit access to information needed to make informed choices, especially ones that affect diet and health.

I’m not disagreeing with you, really. I just think GMO labeling is a very focused campaign issue which does not speak to the concerns of the majority of voters. Bernie is appealing to his core support group’s concerns, which is all well and good, but he needs to appeal to a wider portion of the electorate.

Plus, he needs to understand the science before he makes a fool of himself. Splicing walnut genes into tomatoes may sound science fiction-y and Frankenstein-ish to the uninformed, but it’s really just a quicker and fancier way of developing a new hybrid tomato — something agronomists have been doing for thousands of years. A walnut-mato may not be any more dangerous than eating a Roma or Beefsteak tomato.

137
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:01:58am

GMO labeling is nothing but a scare campaign. The only goal is that people stop buying GMO food - without any rational reason whatsoever. People won’t be making an informed choice when they see a GMO label.

138
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:04:02am

Bananas need only a sticker that proclaims that with each purchase, a small sum goes towards a banana conservation program since we’ve altered the plant to the point it can’t even fuck.
The real irony is that the fruit it produces is so phallic we forget its sterility :(

139
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:04:14am

This is wandering into automatic weapon/assault gun territory.

Genetic modification through cross-breeding and hybrids goes back to humanity’s first agricultural activities.

Genetic modification through splicing is a modern development.

I know that almost all the food I eat has been modified by external means. And eating a genetically spliced organism is not necessarily dangerous, I just want to know if I am eating one or not.

140
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:04:57am

re: #138 Alyosha

Bananas need only a sticker that proclaims that with each purchase, a small sum goes towards a banana conservation program since we’ve altered the plant to the point it can’t even fuck.
The real irony is that the fruit it produces is so phallic we forget its sterility :(

Modern corn varieties are also not capable of re-seeing themselves.

141
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:05:43am

It’s really simple: either the food is safe or it’s not.

Safe food should be allowed on the market, GMO or not. Unsafe food shouldn’t.

If the GMO food is on the market, and is safe, there is exactly zero rational reasons to force to label it.

142
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:06:34am

re: #139 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I know that almost all the food I eat has been modified by external means. And eating a genetically spliced organism is not necessarily dangerous, I just want to know if I am eating one or not.

And people want to know if they’re eating DNA or not.
Our irrational wishes should not be enforced by the government.

143
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:07:55am

re: #125 Nyet

Nobody is preventing people from finding out what they are eating. A tomato is a tomato, whether GMO or not.

Pushing for labeling of GMO tomatoes as if they were somehow deficient is what is reprehensible.

The last electronic item I bought warned me that it contained materials considered carcinogenic in California. It’s all good though, I don’t live in California.

144
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:08:28am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

The last electronic item I bought warned me that it contained materials considered carcinogenic in California. It’s all good though, I don’t live in California.

My favorite is when they stick those notices on the sides of the parking garages.

145
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:09:57am

re: #142 Nyet

And people want to know if they’re eating DNA or not.
Our irrational wishes should not be enforced by the government.

I get your point on how GMO evokes irrational fears among the scientifically illiterate, just like Evolution evokes a certain gut reaction among fundamentalists. When the government fails to educate us on what DNA is and how it works (which applies to science in general), it is failing everyone.

146
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:11:11am

I’m wondering if half this fad over labeling GM food as such isn’t merely because the FDA is so often ratfucked with underfunding that some issues of food safety have become problematic.
I haven’t looked for specific instances of compromised food safety, but high-fructose corn syrup is okay. Why isn’t there a big red sticker on the packaging of items containing this shit?

147
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:16:28am

re: #146 Alyosha

I’m wondering if half this fad over labeling GM food as such isn’t merely because the FDA is so often ratfucked with underfunding that some issues of food safety have become problematic.
I haven’t looked for specific instances of compromised food safety, but high-fructose corn syrup is okay. Why isn’t there a big red sticker on the packaging of items containing this shit?

It does not need to be a BIG RED STICKER (and I believe this is the “sticking” point in the labeling discussion here), just a clear and legible indication of what is in food. You don’t have to read it, but you should have the opportunity.

There is a bigger issue here: America has a food industry that has little concern for long-term health effects and a health care industry that pays insufficient attention to diet and nutrition.

It is too often the case that we seek to save money on food in the short term but sind up paying for it over the long term with our overall health.

148
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:19:35am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It does not need to be a BIG RED STICKER (and I believe this is the “sticking” point in the labeling discussion here), just a clear and legible indication of what is in food. You don’t have to read it, but you should have the opportunity.

There is a bigger issue here: America has a food industry that has little concern for long-term health effects and a health care industry that pays insufficient attention to diet and nutrition.

It is too often the case that we seek to save money on food in the short term but sind up paying for it over the long term with our overall health.

So here’s an ear of corn.

What are you proposing be on the label for it? What kind of information would make you happy? Just a note that “this product has been genetically engineered above and beyond the centuries of selective breeding that was happening well before we really understood what was going on” or something more specific?

I really don’t understand what you’re looking for.

149
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:20:28am

Risk-on-risk decisionmaking: What if a GMO cereal crop caused terminal mopery in 1:500,000 consumers, and prevented 3,000,000 excess deaths from starvation each year?

wfp.org

150
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:21:46am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

just a clear and legible indication of what is in food

Sure, all ingredients should be listed. But that is already done, no?

(That some of those may be GMO is irrelevant however, so that part should be purely optional.)

151
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:24:55am

Each piece of fruit and veggie ought to have a wee pamphlet on evolution attached to it.
I can get behind that kind of labelling if it weren’t so preachy and cost-prohibitive.

152
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:27:42am

re: #151 Alyosha

Each piece of fruit and veggie ought to have a wee pamphlet on evolution attached to it.
I can get behind that kind of labelling if it weren’t so preachy and cost-prohibitive.

Moreover, not only the whole evolutionary history, but also the recent selection history should be attached.
What if some of those were bred by slave-owners in the South or by the Nazis? You have a moral right to know!

153
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:30:31am

re: #148 klys (maker of Silmarils)

So here’s an ear of corn.

What are you proposing be on the label for it? What kind of information would make you happy? Just a note that “this product has been genetically engineered above and beyond the centuries of selective breeding that was happening well before we really understood what was going on” or something more specific?

I really don’t understand what you’re looking for.

Yes, if the genes have been modified through intrusive physical means (splicing, altering) - beyond selective breeding and hybridization - that that should be labelled. I want to be able to choose whether I eat such foods or not.

I understand that a lot of people have a gut reaction to the concept of genetic modification. That is their problem. I understand that a lot of people have a muddy concept of what genetic modification means. That is our problem as a society.

Shall we talk about vaccines now?

154
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:31:35am

My main concern about genetically modified food has a wider scope than food labeling. Corporation A develops a new GM rice crop, let’s say. This rice crop grows twice as fast, and requires less water, but is just as nutritious as non-GM rice. Corporation A convinces rice farmer to buy this new super-rice at a premium price, promising greater yields, etc. Super-rice soon becomes so popular among growers that it eventually displaces more traditional varieties of rice, which fall into disuse. Meanwhile, bacteria or insects (you name the blight vector) are busy evolving to make use of Super-rice as a host or food source. A world-wide blight wipes out most of an entire growing season of rice, leading to skyrocketing rice prices and famine in some parts of the world.

It’s an extreme example, to be sure, but genetic variety within any population is a healthy and necessary characteristic. Corporations are not well-known for their long-term planning, and I don’t necessarily trust them to have the public welfare — or the overall welfare of an ecosystem — in mind when they develop these new super-varieties of crops. It may be very inconvenient for humans to have a food crop vulnerable to disease or to insects, but it may be quite necessary for the ecosystem in question. I’m not sure corporations are wise enough to meddle with Mother Nature without some scientific oversight.

Besides all this, humans have a history of bringing over some plant or insect from one ecological niche, where it is balanced by co-dependent organisms, into a new niche, where this new plant or insect quickly takes over its new home, crowding out the indigenous species. See for example kudzu and African bees.

155
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:32:05am

re: #153 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

You can talk about whatever you want.

I’m troubleshooting a software issue and cranky. Also, it’s 4:30am here. I’m taking my cranky self elsewhere.

156
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:32:27am

re: #151 Alyosha

Each piece of fruit and veggie ought to have a wee pamphlet on evolution attached to it.
I can get behind that kind of labelling if it weren’t so preachy and cost-prohibitive.

I gave up when my running shoes came with an instructional DVD.

157
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:33:05am

re: #153 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I want to be able to choose whether I eat such foods or not.

You have a right to not eat unlabeled foods.
You should not have a right to force anyone to bow to your irrational wishes.

158
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:35:21am

re: #156 Decatur Deb

I gave up when my running shoes came with an instructional DVD.

For realz?

159
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:37:42am

re: #154 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

The challenge is no longer to provide everyone with sufficient calories, proteins, vitamins, etc., but how to do it more cheaply and efficiently. But we are losing sight of
the balance between producer and consumer. What is cheaper for the producer over the short term is not necessarily beneficial to consumers over the long term.

It is funny to see how the image of wealth has changed over the past century: 100 years ago the rich were seen as corpulent while the poor were skinny and haggard.

Now it is the wealthy who are lean and trim while our poor people are obese.

That says a lot about our priorities in how we feed ourselves.

160
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:38:24am

re: #157 Nyet

You have a right to not eat unlabeled foods.
You should not have a right to force anyone to bow to your irrational wishes.

If something in a food product has been intrusively genetically altered or spliced, I want to know, and do not think that is an irrational wish.

161
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:39:08am

re: #158 Nyet

For realz?

Yup. The “Sketchers” brand, IIRC. That model was later recalled for making unsupported health claims, but they were well suited to some ankle damage.

162
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:40:14am

Tweet by a Greens Senator. Lists a bunch of women politicians, both conservative and progressive.
Waiting on a budget to be handed down on May. Most commentators are saying that quickly thereafter, a double-dissollution election will be held (probably over a Senate rejection of reinstating a union watchdog that a recent controversial and highly partisan commission into union corruption recommended).
Turnbull (the dreaded Abbott’s replacement) is likely to win but his approval rating has taken a beating over defense White Paper leaks, shilly-shallying over tax reform and the kind of malaise that has infected a public who have grown accustomed to revolving door politics.
September is likely to be the election month. The Attorney General slipped up and said a plebescite on the question of the legality of SSM would occur this year assuming a Coalition victory but this seems unlikely.
Cowardice.
Not that it’ll do much but I’ll be voting Labor for the House of Representatives for the first time since I started voting (2004) when I cast my ballot for the brash and, it now seems misogynistic Third Wayer, Mark Latham.
Senate vote goes to the Greens.

Thanks for the indulgence, folks :)

163
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:41:24am

re: #160 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If something in a food product has been intrusively genetically altered or spliced, I want to know, and do not think that is an irrational wish.

Since you would not know what was modified (as per your label version above), and even if you knew, you wouldn’t be able to figure out what that means and what effects it has, you would only know what something was modified. And knowing this bare fact doesn’t make you actually informed. So it’s an irrational wish.

164
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:42:54am

re: #151 Alyosha

Each piece of fruit and veggie ought to have a wee pamphlet on evolution attached to it.
I can get behind that kind of labelling if it weren’t so preachy and cost-prohibitive.

Dear consumer: The banana which you are about to eat is the product of decades of work by countless banana experts to produce a sweet fruit that is easy to harvest, ship and peel. It may be eaten raw without killing you or making you sick. It is incapable of reproducing itself, because the seeds have been bred out of it. This variety of banana did not exist before 1836. We hope you enjoy it. Thank you for your patronage.

165
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:43:52am

re: #95 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

This is the shit that’s killing me, people just flat forgetting how precariously close to ruin the entire US auto industry was. Ford may not have taken the bailout but their CEO was right there before Congress begging for it, and even praising it two years later.

People forget how frozen the credit markets were at the time, that foreign car manufacturers were seeing dramatic sales drops and in many cases were getting their own bailouts. People forget that the trickle down effects on the parts manufacturers and dealerships spelled out so much systemic risk that just one of the Big Three going down would have cost millions of jobs in the US, most of which never would have returned. People forget that certain brands, like Saab, simply did vanish from the market entirely, never to return.

This is absolutely true. From 2002-2009 there were virtually NO AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING JOBS to be had. I’m talking about professional-level engineering positions, not hourly line workers. From the few short-term temp contract jobs I was able to find during that time, the buildings were half to three-quarters empty, entire departments were moved to India and in the buildings where I worked about half the workers were H1B visa holders.

Now we have been on a solid hiring streak which has really picked up in the last two years. The downside of this is that about 95% of all these professional engineering positions have gone to white men, with a scattering of females and men of color.

I’ve been in automotive since the ‘80’s and there has always been a lopsided ratio of male to female in this industry.

166
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:45:18am

re: #164 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Dear consumer: The banana which you are about to eat is the product of decades of work by countless banana experts to produce a sweet fruit that is easy to harvest, ship and peel. It may be eaten raw without killing you or making you sick. It is incapable of reproducing itself, because the seeds have been bred out of it. This variety of banana did not exist before 1836. We hope you enjoy it. Thank you for your patronage.

Haha with a mad rebuttal scrawled on the skin in sharpie by various Ray Comfort fans.

167
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:45:24am

Reason for GMO labeling: the supposed, pretty arbitrary “right to know”.

Pluses: none, since this information is not practically helpful to anyone.

Minuses: GMO food, which is normal food, is shunned for no good reason.

168
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:45:54am

Each box of breakfast cereal should indicate the total greenhouse gas emissions released by its production, packaging and distribution.

169
Dr. Matt  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:47:14am

Just captured minutes ago:

170
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:48:17am

re: #165 The Vicious Babushka

This is absolutely true. From 2002-2009 there were virtually NO AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING JOBS to be had. I’m talking about professional-level engineering positions, not hourly line workers. From the few short-term temp contract jobs I was able to find during that time, the buildings were half to three-quarters empty, entire departments were moved to India and in the buildings where I worked about half the workers were H1B visa holders.

Now we have been on a solid hiring streak which has really picked up in the last two years. The downside of this is that about 95% of all these professional engineering positions have gone to white men, with a scattering of females and men of color.

I’ve been in automotive since the ‘80’s and there has always been a lopsided ratio of male to female in this industry.

IIRC there were a lot of layoffs at the Ford plants in Louisville, and some of my friends and acquaintances were among those workers furloughed, laid off or “pretired.” Production went way down, too. Now both Ford plants are humming along famously.

171
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:53:28am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

Each box of breakfast cereal should indicate the total greenhouse gas emissions released by its production, packaging and distribution.

Eventually, every package will include a code containing the entire genome of the ingredients, and the chemical formulae of the additives, for consumers to scan with the scanner implanted in their eye for decoding by their wearable CPU.

But they’ll probably still have trouble scanning the prices at the checkout lanes.

172
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:53:30am

re: #170 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

IIRC there were a lot of layoffs at the Ford plants in Louisville, and some of my friends and acquaintances were among those workers furloughed, laid off or “pretired.” Production went way down, too. Now both Ford plants are humming along famously.

Down the road from the Ford plant is GE’s Appliance Park. We had 20,000 workers when I worked the assembly line. Now there are 6,000 or so. GE is trying to sell itself out of the consumer appliance business.

173
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:56:02am

re: #171 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Eventually, every package will include a code containing the entire genome of the ingredients, and the chemical formulae of the additives, for consumers to scan with the scanner implanted in their eye for decoding by their wearable CPU.

But they’ll probably still have trouble scanning the prices at the checkout lanes.


“Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?”
—TSE

174
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:57:10am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

Down the road from the Ford plant is GE’s Appliance Park. We had 20,000 workers when I worked the assembly line. Now there are 6,000 or so. GE is trying to sell itself out of the consumer appliance business.

Oh, for sure. A lot of appliances are made in China now, and rebranded as Sears, Whirlpool, GE and so on.

Louisville is a prime example of a former factory town fairly successfully transitioning into a service economy town. Having a major UPS air hub and several corporate HQs there has helped keep the city afloat economically.

175
Smith25's Liberal Thighs  Mar 8, 2016 • 4:59:08am

Today is Election Day again in Kentucky. There is a Special Election- four seats are up for grabs in the State House of Representatives. This is the only state house in the nation still held by the Democratic party. If the Republicans sweep, that is out the door. Now, it’s not like our Democrats are all that progressive, or even in some cases even all that sane. But at least, keeping the house in the hands of the Democratic party is keeping the Bevin administration in check, at least a little.

176
Dr. Matt  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:04:29am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

Each box of breakfast cereal should indicate the total greenhouse gas emissions released by its production, packaging and distribution.

Don’t give Bernie and Michael Moore any ideas.

177
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:04:58am

Here, have a banana 🍌

178
danarchy  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:19:07am

re: #175 Smith25’s Liberal Thighs

Today is Election Day again in Kentucky. There is a Special Election- four seats are up for grabs in the State House of Representatives. This is the only state house in the nation still held by the Democratic party. If the Republicans sweep, that is out the door. Now, it’s not like our Democrats are all that progressive, or even in some cases even all that sane. But at least, keeping the house in the hands of the Democratic party is keeping the Bevin administration in check, at least a little.

huh?

179
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:19:21am

Ever cloud has a silver lining, as they say.

Trump’s rise spurs Latinos to naturalize to vote against him
nytimes.com

Over all, naturalization applications increased by 11 percent in the 2015 fiscal year over the year before, and jumped 14 percent during the six months ending in January, according to federal figures. The pace is picking up by the week, advocates say, and they estimate applications could approach 1 million in 2016, about 200,000 more than the average in recent years.

The Democrats ought to send Trump a big thank you card — no a yuuuge one!

180
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:19:42am
181
Alyosha  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:22:00am

re: #180 Alyosha

[Embedded content]

I don’t know anything about the reliability of this poll except that it is accordance with my bias and correctly used ‘whom’ in the by-line.

182
Kent Dorfman  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:30:02am

2 years ago today, Flight MH370 vanished with 239 on board.

183
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:31:20am

re: #163 Nyet

Since you would not know what was modified (as per your label version above), and even if you knew, you wouldn’t be able to figure out what that means and what effects it has, you would only know what something was modified. And knowing this bare fact doesn’t make you actually informed. So it’s an irrational wish.

Why would I be unaware of what effects this crop is having on the environment? That is also part of my choice.

184
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:33:59am

re: #182 Kent Dorfman

2 years ago today, Flight MH370 vanished with 239 on board.

1 year ago, CNN finally stopped covering it 24/7…

185
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:34:01am

re: #179 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Ever cloud has a silver lining, as they say.

Trump’s rise spurs Latinos to naturalize to vote against him
nytimes.com

The Democrats ought to send Trump a big thank you card — no a yuuuge one!

And this sort of thing is why I’m not worried about Trump winning the general. He is going to inspire a huge turnout of minorities to vote against him.

186
Kent Dorfman  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:34:11am

NYC’s first supermodel died alone in an insane asylum.

She began acting more erratically, reportedly calling herself “Baroness Audrey Meri Munson-Monson,” and in 1922 she attempted suicide by OD’ing on mercury bichloride pills.

She recovered, but in 1931 was committed to an asylum in Ogdensburg, NY. The model lived there until her death in 1996 at age 104. All but forgotten, she was buried in an unmarked grave.

187
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:36:36am

re: #95 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

This is the shit that’s killing me, people just flat forgetting how precariously close to ruin the entire US auto industry was. Ford may not have taken the bailout but their CEO was right there before Congress begging for it, and even praising it two years later.

Free Market anyone? Survival of the fittest? Let inefficient companies go bankrupt, the Free Market will ensure that more efficient technologies/industries/companies take their place?

Donald Trump just loves him some bankruptcy action…

188
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:36:48am

re: #175 Smith25’s Liberal Thighs

Today is Election Day again in Kentucky. There is a Special Election- four seats are up for grabs in the State House of Representatives. This is the only state house in the nation still held by the Democratic party. If the Republicans sweep, that is out the door. Now, it’s not like our Democrats are all that progressive, or even in some cases even all that sane. But at least, keeping the house in the hands of the Democratic party is keeping the Bevin administration in check, at least a little.

I think you meant its the only state house in the South.

189
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:42:46am

Just blocked another BernieBot flinging Byrdshit at me.

190
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:44:10am

re: #186 Kent Dorfman

NYC’s first supermodel died alone in an insane asylum.

Gothic Horror bio. Probably seen a half-dozen of her statues, just thought she was generic Belle Epoque.

191
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:47:29am

re: #186 Kent Dorfman

NYC’s first supermodel died alone in an insane asylum.

Reminds me a bit of Evelyn Nesbit, whom I learned about from E.L Doctorow’s Ragtime

192
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:49:02am

re: #183 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Why would I be unaware of what effects this crop is having on the environment? That is also part of my choice.

Well, yes, you are also unaware of what effects this crop is having on the environment, unless you google everything you buy. But in any case you’re pretty selective about what you want to label, because GMO is hardly the only thing you eat that has an influence on the environment.

193
Kent Dorfman  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:53:18am

Another article on NYC’s first supemodel, a few more photos and background.

194
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Mar 8, 2016 • 5:56:51am

Today in cable television:

MSNBC talking about the campaign and election

CNN talking about….that missing plane they think they found a part of from two years ago.

195
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:00:05am

re: #194 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Have CNN found Perth yet?

196
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:10:24am

BREAKING: Romney-bot does robocall for Rubio, which sounds like Romney-bot reading from a script.

Developing…..

197
Smith25's Liberal Thighs  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:11:37am

re: #178 danarchy

huh?

My bad. Only state house in the south.

198
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:28:23am

re: #192 Nyet

Well, yes, you are also unaware of what effects this crop is having on the environment, unless you google everything you buy. But in any case you’re pretty selective about what you want to label, because GMO is hardly the only thing you eat that has an influence on the environment.

There is a question about a hidden agenda that you are right to point out here. There are people who want to restrict smoking and access to abortion, contraceptives or handguns, and there are people who want to ban them entirely.

There are people who want to see genetically engineered crops outlawed or restricted to the point that they are not commercially viable. That is not my point or my intention.

I just want labeling information on when a crop has been genetically engineered. That is a major step from a mere genetically modified hybrid crop.

199
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:31:27am

re: #198 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

> I just want labeling information on when a crop has been genetically engineered

You are free to ask the firms to voluntarily put such labels on their products.
If they won’t, you are out of luck. Don’t try to make government enforce irrational wishes not supported by science,

200
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:33:51am

re: #116 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

I find it hard to believe that the walnut gene in a GMO tomato would trigger someone’s nut allergy. Gene splicing is not like mixing walnut paste and tomato sauce together. Allergies are reactions to specific compounds in a food product, not to specific genes within an ingredient’s genome. Putting it another way, someone with a peanut allergy can go into anaphylaxis upon smelling peanut butter, but would be unaffected (presumably) by eating green peas, which are also legumes like peanuts and share similar genetic structures.

All genetically engineered plants that are brought to market go through both the FDA and the USDA for review. The FDA looks at the genetics of the plant, the transformation events (the actual DNA transferred and locations that the DNA is put in to plants genome) the source of the transformed DNA, and what possible allergenicity the transformed DNA may introduce into the plant. First, no genes from any source of what is termed the big eight food allergens has or will ever be introduced into a plant (or animal) that would go to market. Additionally, all genes that are introduced are screened through various allergen databases and compared to known allergens using a variety of algorithms and comparison lengths.

There is ZERO possibility that any walnut (a tree nut, one of the big eight) genes would ever end up in a tomato. I also can state, from first hand knowledge, that no such tomato exists. Additionally, no company would even try to go there. I call bullshit on the unsourced, apocryphal story.

201
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:37:13am

Singling out GMO for labeling is not much different than singling out evolution for textbook labeling.

202
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:37:47am

So, this seems to be the thing from yesterday:

Click to Reveal

No genetic modification there… though surgeons may have been employed.

203
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:39:09am

re: #202 freetoken

Please put that thing in spoiler tags, some of us are at work.

204
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:40:25am

re: #203 The Vicious Babushka

…sigh…

FWIW, it’s all over Twitter, and the celeb blogs far and wide…

205
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:40:30am

I shall call him G. Moe!

206
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:43:49am

re: #204 freetoken

…sigh…

FWIW, it’s all over Twitter, and the celeb blogs far and wide…

Yeah I know but I don’t read celeb blogs at work & filter my Twitter feed.

207
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:46:13am

re: #205 GlutenFreeJesus

Embedded Image

I shall call him G. Moe!

Feed him!!!

208
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:46:41am

re: #123 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And I find it both suspicious and reprehensible that there are corporations that want to prevent people from finding out what they are eating.

What does that actually mean? You are eating a {vegetable/fruit}>, is the method or genesis of that the germ plasm of that {vegetable/fruit} relevant? Do you think that site directed gene insertion is more needing of labeling than traditional breeding or mutagen induced selection, where you have no idea what is going on? Do the cross breeds of those plants need to be labeled, and why?

It may gall you, but there are no requirements in the current law that give consumers that particular right. As previously noted, genetically engineered plants are considered to be Generally Recognized as Safe. Just like traditional breeding techniques.

edit- I used brackets as a generic place holder and they were stripped, oops

209
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:47:00am

re: #206 The Vicious Babushka

Yeah I know but I don’t read celeb blogs at work & filter my Twitter feed.

I am aware that this person exists and enjoys some sort of notoriety but really do not wish to see or hear anything else about her…

210
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:49:33am

re: #208 Le Lapin Tueur

It’s the latest version of the “natural is better”/”Nature knows best” nonsense (except of course the results of selection are already not natural).

211
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 6:51:35am

re: #210 Nyet

I always like the “botulinum toxin is natch’rul” response.

212
Great White Snark  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:00:48am

re: #208 Le Lapin Tueur

California has some strong labeling rules. Disclosure via labeling perhaps backed up by more information online builds consumer confidence (good for profits long term) and cost fairly little. The fact that people comparable to chemtrail nuts have all kinds of unreasonable assertions and demands really need not undermine generous disclosure about how a food product is made and preserved.

The complaints about costs seem overblown to me. I happen to sell the most harmless non carcinogenic elements there are. Pure gold and pure platinum. Just like the potentially harmful metals, they get disclosed via MSDS. Additionally including documents showing Dodd Frank compliance. On request, even further documentation about regulatory compliance and the recycled post consumer content details.

That just 14k for jewelry. I can’t get bothered by strong labeling for my food.

GTG to my commute, BBL.

213
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:05:08am

re: #212 Great White Snark

I would start to take labeling proponents a bit more seriously if they were for labeling each and every food product with the full list of all chemicals (be they antibiotics or pesticides or the most innocent things ever) used in producing it. At least that would be consistent. But no, it’s scary GMOs all the way.

214
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:05:11am

re: #212 Great White Snark

California has some strong labeling rules. Disclosure via labeling perhaps backed up by more information online builds consumer confidence (good for profits long term) and cost fairly little. The fact that people comparable to chemtrail nuts have all kinds of unreasonable assertions and demands really need not undermine generous disclosure about how a food product is made and preserved.

I understand that some people want a big red label with a glowing death’s head logo for GMO, but I just want that information put in a place where I can find it if I look, and then decide whether I want to eat this food - or support the producer of these foods.

215
Lidane  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:07:38am
216
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:10:36am

re: #215 Lidane

Trump: I didn’t know hand-raising pledge at rallies was a problem (VIDEO)

Trump has perfected this sort of baiting. He knew what was behind it, but has enough plausible deniability built in to turn it on his accusers.

217
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:11:05am

Everyone sees the world through their own prism

[…]

According to the recent study, there’s no magic formula for making climate policy easier to “sell”. “We all see the world through our own ideological prism,” says Bernauer. It’s not specific justifications, but rather preconceived ideas that ultimately decide whether people see climate protection as important and necessary. “Our opinions on climate policy vary according to factors such as socialisation, political attitudes, age, gender and education.” Someone who has always supported green policies will find their point of view validated by the arguments, whereas those who have always been sceptical about climate change will not be influenced by reasoning based on economic or health grounds.

[…]

218
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:12:55am

re: #217 freetoken

Everyone sees the world through their own prism

Which is why the prism-makers, teachers and artists, are the key.

219
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:13:06am

re: #217 freetoken

Everyone sees the world through their own prism

and the more money you have, the more you can bend that prism to fit your own color

220
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:23:30am

I guess the talking points have been issued. Berniebots on my FB are going full metal Byrd KKK.

221
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:26:15am

re: #220 GlutenFreeJesus

I guess the talking points have been issued. Berniebots on my FB are going full metal Byrd KKK.

That they’re going after Hillary with a guy who’s been dead for years, and who renounced his KKK years back in the 1990s shows the desperation. It’s also something the GOP would do in the same position.

Meanwhile, the GOP is still courting and embracing the white supremacist wing. Racists and bigots are propelling the Trump campaign, but Cruz and Rubio aren’t far behind since they’re all hoping to win at least some of those votes away from Trump.

And at the end of the day, the other nominees have left open the door to supporting Trump if he’s the nominee. That gives away the game right there. This isn’t about substance, but style. They can’t stand Trump’s style, but on the substance, they’re okay with where Trump’s taking them and the party.

222
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:26:33am

Forced birther says what

223
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:27:16am

re: #220 GlutenFreeJesus

I guess the talking points have been issued. Berniebots on my FB are going full metal Byrd KKK.

Mute, block, mute, block, rinse, repeat.

224
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:29:05am

Morning LGF.

Regarding labeling GMO foods…wouldn’t all foods need to carry the label? Everyone seems to agree that almost all plant and animal foods have been modified through time, so if that is the case where would the cutoff/start be for GMO labeling?

If you do not know the entire history of a plant food, let’s take the banana example, what do you know if in 2015 there was a new modification that called for a new label?

What concerns me is the costs of food. Doesn’t a non-GMO food open up for price gouging? Do companies that are forced to label their foods GMO modified lose sales and go out of business? What if that GMO modified food really has nothing wrong with it only to have to suffer a label?

Is it fair that people can easily get into a ‘fashion’ mode and go on a hunt for gluten free when it really has no effect on them personally. Or something like a mass produced cookie is labeled fat free but is so jacked up in sugar to give it a mask to pass for not having the fat in it to get the label it still is unhealthy maybe more so.

I just wish we could get back to strong federal agencies like the CDC, FDA and the EPA working with researchers all over this country to do proper testing and following of health issues from foods. I’d like a label saying a product has been thoroughly tested and researched by the government and is considered as safe as possible with proper content of fats and sugars listed that make sense based on reasonable portions.

While we are looking for GMO labeling more people die (yes die) every year from simple foods like a salad with bean sprouts or a burrito contaminated with e-coli or ice cream with listeria.

225
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:29:55am

re: #223 The Vicious Babushka

Pretty much!

226
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:31:44am

re: #224 ObserverArt

Morning LGF.

Regarding labeling GMO foods…wouldn’t all foods need to carry the label? Everyone seems to agree that almost all plant and animal foods have been modified through time, so if that is the case where would the cutoff/start be for GMO labeling?

This is starting to sound like the automatic weapons/assault gun dichotomy.

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. I would just like to see the latter case labeled, even if it has been tested and declared safe.

227
Jenner7  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:33:27am

A “bailout”.

What an asshole.

228
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:34:30am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is starting to sound like the automatic weapons/assault gun dichotomy.

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. I would just like to see the latter case labeled, even if it has been tested and declared safe.

FRANKENFOOD!!!

229
Belafon  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:34:40am

re: #220 GlutenFreeJesus

I guess the talking points have been issued. Berniebots on my FB are going full metal Byrd KKK.

So, supporters of a candidate who became a Democrat just so he’d have a chance at being president are attacking Clinton because she once supported Goldwater and was friends with a man who renounced his association with the KKK?

230
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:35:24am

re: #227 Jenner7

“If you give a city a bailout, it’s bound to ask for another.” - Sen. MikeLee on why he opposes federal aid for Flint

just like my grandma said: if you feed vermin, they will just keep a-comin’ back

231
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:36:34am

re: #228 lawhawk

FRANKENFOOD!!!

Mummifood!

232
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:36:47am

re: #227 Jenner7

233
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:37:37am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. I would just like to see the latter case labeled, even if it has been tested and declared safe.

In both cases it’s alteration of DNA. You have shown neither a major difference, nor that uncontrolled genetic modification (selective breeding) is safer than controlled genetic modification.

And if you don’t claim that GMO is less safe then you destroy the only rational basis on which to require labeling.

234
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:37:58am

More polls… we got polls…

A national poll for WaPo shows Trump to have peaked and the other three relatively moving up:

235
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:38:53am

All products of uncontrolled genetic modification should be labeled as such ;)

236
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:39:00am

As one would entirely expect if you’ve been paying attention to the GOP over the past 8 years, Romney’s statement against Trump ended up boosting Trump.

The GOP owns this mess, mostly because they’ve been pushing hate, fear, and anger as a substitute for policy (or as policy - when talking gay marriage, curbing civil rights, access to the polls, etc.). Trump is merely stating what the party’s been demanding for years.

237
whitebeach  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:39:35am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA.

Really? What “major difference” is that?

238
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:39:50am

re: #221 lawhawk

That they’re going after Hillary with a guy who’s been dead for years, and who renounced his KKK years back in the 1990s shows the desperation. It’s also something the GOP would do in the same position.

Meanwhile, the GOP is still courting and embracing the white supremacist wing. Racists and bigots are propelling the Trump campaign, but Cruz and Rubio aren’t far behind since they’re all hoping to win at least some of those votes away from Trump.

And at the end of the day, the other nominees have left open the door to supporting Trump if he’s the nominee. That gives away the game right there. This isn’t about substance, but style. They can’t stand Trump’s style, but on the substance, they’re okay with where Trump’s taking them and the party.

Trump has been issuing policy positions on things like healthcare and taxes which are mainstream GOP. Once he has secured the nomination, which seems increasingly likely, the party will back him.

239
A Cranky One  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:39:59am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

…

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. .

Isn’t selective breeding a physical alteration of DNA? Is the DNA of bananas the same as it was before all the selective breeding? Hint: no.

And that’s the point people have been trying to make.

240
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:42:10am

If you don’t think GMO products are safe for consumption, then you should be against them appearing on the market. Labeling doesn’t make sense.

241
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:43:24am

Tornado By Wintergatan

242
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:43:44am

Latest Florida poll should deflate Rubio even more:

Exclusive Florida Decides Poll: Trump, Clinton lead Florida’s presidential primaries

Image: Poll-GOP-presidential-primary-0307.jpg

243
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:45:29am

uh oh…

Image: Clinton-Trump-gfx.jpg

244
Lidane  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:45:37am

re: #227 Jenner7

Heartless asshole.

245
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:46:17am

re: #240 Nyet

If you don’t think GMOs products are safe for consumption, then you should be against them appearing on the market. Labeling doesn’t make sense.

You are reading too much into my arguments. I am not opposed to physically altering DNA of food crops, I just want to know where this has been done.

And invasively altering genes can change them in ways and at a rate that rarely appears in nature, where changes and mutations are slight and gradual and do rarely involve differing species.

I am not maintaining that this stuff is inherently dangerous, Frankenfood or an abomination unto God and Nature. I would just like to know where it is going on.

246
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:46:59am

re: #243 freetoken

uh oh…

Image: Clinton-Trump-gfx.jpg

March polls about hypothetical November match ups are meaningless.

247
Jenner7  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:47:14am

re: #243 freetoken

Too early.

248
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:48:08am

re: #234 freetoken

Things tightening up a bit doesn’t make nearly as much sense when you see how Trump’s maintaining or extending leads in the current/upcoming batch of primary states. Reuters has Trump with a solid 40% with churn among the remaining candidates. Next closest is 20 points behind (Cruz). Cruz would have to gain more than 2:1 advantage on picking up Kasich and Rubio’s voters assuming they drop out next to have a chance. Even then, he’s got too much ground to pick up himself.

According to RCP, Trump’s leading in FL, MI, and OH. That would essentially end Rubio and Kasich’s bids right there. Only in Ohio is the 2d place candidate even within 10 points of Trump.

We’re going to get some more clarity today:
Hawaii Republican Caucus - 19 delegates at stake
Idaho primary- 32 delegates
Michigan primary - 59 delegates
Mississippi primary - 40 delegates.

249
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:48:13am

re: #242 freetoken

Latest Florida poll should deflate Rubio even more:

Exclusive Florida Decides Poll: Trump, Clinton lead Florida’s presidential primaries

Image: Poll-GOP-presidential-primary-0307.jpg

The only question left for Rubio is whether he withdraws before or after he is humiliated in Florida. If he wants to stop Trump, he should withdraw now and endorse Cruz.

250
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:48:37am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is starting to sound like the automatic weapons/assault gun dichotomy.

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. I would just like to see the latter case labeled, even if it has been tested and declared safe.

And, how is selective breeding any different than introducing DNA through recombinant DNA techniques? Is a plant that has been infected with a virus a natural breeding technique or a reconbinant technique?

These questions have all been asked already. There is no material difference (yes, lawery talk) between the two and therefore no labeling is required. And, labeling is seen as a warning. An excellent example is cows treated with BST to enhance milk production. People wanted labeling, there is no material difference between the milk from treated and untreated cows. No labeling required, in fact, labeling would be in violation of the law. So, you see milk sold with negative labeling. This milk comes from cows that have not been treated with BST.

251
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:49:16am

re: #246 Big Beautiful Door

March polls about hypothetical November match ups are meaningless.

Now come on, in America we want instant miracle diets, overnight get-rich-quick schemes, algorithms to predict what we buy and download, and we want our election results delivered to us a half year in advance.

252
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:50:24am

re: #245 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

First off, what you’re eating is mostly not what occurs in nature but what is selectively bred.

Second, if you’re not maintaining that the food controlled by FDA etc. is inherently dangerous, then neither do you have a legitimate interest in knowing where this is going on.

Personal curiosity - yes, but that’s not a sufficient basis for labeling laws.

253
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:50:24am

re: #243 freetoken

uh oh…

Image: Clinton-Trump-gfx.jpg

Inside the MoE, 12% undecided. We’ve always known FL would be a fight.

254
Tigger2  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:50:57am

re: #227 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

A “bailout”.

What an asshole.

255
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:52:13am

re: #254 Tigger2

“If you give a city a bailout, it’s bound to ask for another.” - @SenMikeLee on why he opposes federal aid for Flint

and what about a bank, or an entire financial sector?

256
Tigger2  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:53:57am

re: #255 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

and what about a bank, or an entire financial sector?

I love how they call themselves The Party Of Personal Responsibility.

They should really call themselves The Party Of Pass The Buck.

257
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:55:46am

re: #252 Nyet

This to the infinity. The Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act labeling laws are extremely complex, but one of the things that the law doesn’t require is that your curiosity be assuaged.

Labeling laws are about material information that impacts issues that are relevant: ingredients, safety, anllergenicity, etc.

258
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:57:45am
259
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:58:02am

re: #249 Big Beautiful Door

The only question left for Rubio is whether he withdraws before or after he is humiliated in Florida. If he wants to stop Trump, he should withdraw now and endorse Cruz.

Too late to drop out.

Other polls have him much closer and he’s gotten a high percentage of the early mail in ballots.

Nonetheless, may he lose Florida and go down in flames.

OTOH, if he wins, maybe the dumpster fire gets even hotter.

260
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 7:59:40am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is starting to sound like the automatic weapons/assault gun dichotomy.

There is a major difference between a crop that has been modified by selective breeding and one that has been modified by a physical and invasive alteration of its DNA. I would just like to see the latter case labeled, even if it has been tested and declared safe.

I understand. But I do struggle with it all so I ask.

For the sake of clarity or wording: If I take a cutting from a one type of tomato plant that has grown strong and fruitful and grow it in a controlled room with another species of plant that I know can withstand drought and make sure I pollinate the cutting from the drought resistant species have I not physically caused an invasive alteration? That is how plant engineering has always been done. Does it really change much if it can be done on a finer level under a microscope with dna/genes? Both modify the original plants original makeup?

And if you want, can you express what your concerns are with the foods you want labeled as GMO? Is it health to the consumer and what knowledge do you base that concern on other than a label? Wouldn’t there need to be known risks?

Again…just looking for info and what people that are concerned are concerned with. I’m completely neutral on the whole thing but want to know if there are real risks or are the risks created for profit.

261
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:00:24am

And that Rubio has to come back to win Florida to begin with, says a lot about his candidacy. Not good things.

262
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:02:53am

re: #239 A Cranky One

Isn’t selective breeding a physical alteration of DNA? Is the DNA of bananas the same as it was before all the selective breeding? Hint: no.

And that’s the point people have been trying to make.

I cannot be clear enough to get you guys to keep harping:

invasive physical alteration vs alteration through selective breeding

They are both tinkering with nature, but one is the turbo-speed variant.

Neither is without consequences for the environment, but again one harbors a lot of potentials not seen in the other.

I am not against banning GMO, please do not put me in that camp. I just want to see it labeled.

263
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:06:10am

re: #254 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

If you give people water that isn’t poison, pretty soon they’ll think they deserve it.

264
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:06:55am

There are reasons to object to the GMO industry other than some unspecified fear of genetic alterations.

265
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:07:56am

re: #262 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Your responses are self-inconsistent. How does it matter what is a turbo-version and what is not? If you disagree with the safety of GMO just say so. If not, there’s no case for labeling.

266
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:08:22am

re: #264 freetoken

There are reasons to object to the GMO industry other than some unspecified fear of genetic alterations.

Fine, but this has nothing to do with labeling.

267
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:09:04am

re: #264 freetoken

There are reasons to object to the GMO industry other than some unspecified fear of genetic alterations.

I do not object, I just want to ensure that they can be called to account for their choices and actions.

268
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:09:12am

re: #262 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I cannot be clear enough to get you guys to keep harping:

invasive physical alteration vs alteration through selective breeding

They are both tinkering with nature, but one is the turbo-speed variant.

Neither is without consequences for the environment, but again one harbors a lot of potentials not seen in the other.

I am not against banning GMO, please do not put me in that camp. I just want to see it labeled.

We are just discussing a topic that is very relevant to a lot of what is going on…and it has even entered the political dialogue. I hope you really do not see it as harping. You just took a stance that everyone wanted to discuss. You get to be our ‘Dark_Falcon’ for this topic because you are the only one taking a side that others want to question.

I’m done with it unless you want to add more. Sorry if it seems like you are targeted. That wasn’t my intention.

269
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:09:18am

re: #264 freetoken

There are reasons to object to the GMO industry other than some unspecified fear of genetic alterations.

Yes. It’s like the problem with patented hybrid seeds, but on steroids.

270
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:09:59am

re: #266 Nyet

Fine, but this has nothing to do with labeling.

Unless a consumer wants to make a buying choice based on a social concern.

Think of the clothes you wear - does it really matter to the t-shirt-ness of a cotton t-shirt if you know it is made in Bangladesh, or Mexico, or the USA?

271
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:10:00am

re: #264 freetoken

There are reasons to object to the GMO industry other than some unspecified fear of genetic alterations.

I tried to get a bit into some of that too. Profit and politics of food.

272
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:10:18am

re: #267 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I do not object, I just want to ensure that they can be called to account for their choices and actions.

Aha, so you want labels for purely political reasons. Doesn’t work that way.

273
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:11:06am

re: #270 freetoken

Unless a consumer wants to make a buying choice based on a social concern.

Labeling should not be social-concern-based.

274
freetoken  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:12:04am

re: #273 Nyet

Labeling should not be social-concern-based.

That’s an assertion. Fine if you believe it, but we enforce labeling of imported goods so Americans can know they were made outside the USA.

275
bratwurst  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:15:17am

I guess I am a fool to be surprised at the level of virulent misogyny resulting from the Erin Andrews verdict. There are a lot of disgusting takes all over the place, but this has to take the cake:

Fox’s Dr. Keith Ablow: Erin Andrews Could “Make The Same Amount” Of Money If She “Let Herself Be Seen Naked” As She Won In Unauthorized Video Lawsuit

276
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:16:37am

re: #272 Nyet

Aha, so you want labels for purely political reasons. Doesn’t work that way.

Political and most of all economic reasons.

This is a place where the two spheres overlap: a government should ensure that the price of a product reflects its actual cost (including follow-up costs) or it totally skewers the market.

277
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:16:45am

Funny Donald, LA Times says the same about you. But that makes them LOSERS, BIG FAILURE! SAD.

278
Barefoot Grin  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:20:08am

re: #277 The Vicious Babushka

Funny Donald, LA Times says the same about you. But that makes them LOSERS, BIG FAILURE! SAD.

[Embedded content]

Sun Sentinel refused to endorse a GOP candidate: none qualified for the job!

279
calochortus  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:20:18am

re: #214 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I understand that some people want a big red label with a glowing death’s head logo for GMO, but I just want that information put in a place where I can find it if I look, and then decide whether I want to eat this food - or support the producer of these foods.

IIRC while labeling a tomato is pretty straight forward, it is actually much harder to be sure of the source of all the ingredients that go into many foods. Did a little of the HF corn syrup in this can of Coke come from GMO plants?
I would be willing to guess that if labeling occurs, you’ll end up with a lot of “may contain” warning labels. Which will tell you nothing.

280
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:21:46am

re: #276 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Political and most of all economic reasons.

Personal vendettas against GMOs are not a sound basis for labeling laws.

281
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:24:05am

re: #274 freetoken

That’s an assertion. Fine if you believe it, but we enforce labeling of imported goods so Americans can know they were made outside the USA.

That is a material fact. There are no labeling requirements for organic cotton {may not be a real thing), those are added as value added as perceived by the manufacturer.

282
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:25:01am

re: #277 The Vicious Babushka

Bloviating pig says what about gravitas?

283
Dr. Matt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:26:28am

re: #277 The Vicious Babushka

Funny Donald, LA Times says the same about you. But that makes them LOSERS, BIG FAILURE! SAD.

Sun Sentinel said no GOP candidates are worthy of the Presidency. Trump shouldn’t be highlighting this.

“We cannot endorse businessman Donald Trump, hometown Sen. Marco Rubio or Texas Sen. Ted Cruz because they are unqualified to be president,”

284
Tigger2  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:29:26am
285
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:30:49am

re: #275 bratwurst

Earth to Dr. Keith: Nice try, but most people don’t pay for porn anymore anyway.

286
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:31:10am

re: #283 Dr. Matt

Sun Sentinel said no GOP candidates are worthy of the Presidency. Trump shouldn’t be highlighting this.

Okay. You tell him.

He’ll just bellow that the Sun Sentinel is only saying Rubio is unfit and then go on to tell you they are a terrible paper and about to go out of business.

Trump has an answer for everything…and the people seem to go along with it even if it labeled 100 percent unmodified bullshit.

As freetoken often states…Trump is running on a cult of personality…even if it too is 100 percent unmodified bullshit.

287
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:34:17am
288
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:36:44am

Yesterday Trump was complaining that his opponents are spending money on attack ads but he’s too cheap to pay for his own attack ads so he’ll just post mean attacks on Twitter and Facebook.

289
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:40:22am

And one has to wonder if the feds aren’t going to indict her for her role in the Bundy standoffs. Obstruction of justice and all that. Or perhaps unindicted coconspirator has a nice ring to it considering how deeply involved in the whole mess she was.

But aside from the Bundy business, this is a woman divorced from facts or logic.

290
Great White Snark  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:40:26am

re: #240 Nyet

If you don’t think GMO products are safe for consumption, then you should be against them appearing on the market. Labeling doesn’t make sense.

If one is uncertain, and the product very new, barely out of testing, labeling empowers consumers and protects manufacturer. (edited)

For all this vaunted testing in labs, it pays to let new drugs exist on the market a year or two, when 90% of unexpected negative effects happen. That’s an analogy that might not pass scientific scrutiny. But we are talking retail sales here. Consumer health and psychology.

291
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:40:39am

re: #258 The Vicious Babushka

292
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:41:34am

re: #289 lawhawk

Ugh, how did I know it was going to be her?

293
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:41:49am

re: #288 The Vicious Babushka

Yesterday Trump was complaining that his opponents are spending money on attack ads but he’s too cheap to pay for his own attack ads so he’ll just post mean attacks on Twitter and Facebook.

[Embedded content]

Boy, am I ever glad I don’t have Facebook and Twitter. If I don’t come here to LGF, I will be totally free from TRUMP!

And does this not expose him as a cheap ass fool? He thinks he can bluster his way into office and be a touch-me-not at the same time. Yea…great thinker there Donald.

294
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:42:35am

re: #292 Eclectic Cyborg

Ugh, how did I know it was going to be her?

I’d say the “Gun-loving, standoff-negotiating Nevada lawmaker” part kinda gave it away.

295
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:42:39am

re: #291 MsJ

No what happened was, Trump came up with the idea and his aides yes men just went along with it.

296
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:43:18am

re: #294 Blind Frog Belly White

I’d say the “Gun-loving, standoff-negotiating Nevada lawmaker” part kinda gave it away.

I didn’t remember her negotiating anything in that standoff, but then again I purposely don’t pay much attention to what she is doing.

297
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:45:25am

re: #296 Eclectic Cyborg

I didn’t remember her negotiating anything in that standoff, but then again I purposely don’t pay much attention to what she is doing.

She and that other wingnut, Kris Anne, almost got David whatshisname (the last holdout) to blow his brains out, then an adult took over and he came out with his hands up in 5 minutes.

298
De Kolta Chair  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:46:03am
Chan Lowe
299
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:46:06am

re: #284 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

Hey, thanks for that link. Not only was the Obama vid fun, I saw an ad on the side that let me know the ‘genius pill’ has been banned in ‘all’ 49 states except Ohio. Now I need to find out if I need the pill and why Ohio in no longer a state…or are we the 50th with reservations?

300
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:47:39am

re: #284 Tigger2

Soooooo good! Thank you!

301
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:50:02am

This is not good

302
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:51:16am

The GotNwes staff stayed up late to complete this latest project.

Announcing LeechSearchr, a new kind of nwes agency

LeechSearchr

An Information Marketplace of Sorts
We are looking for a few gullible news people.
(Well, more than a few, so we’ll make more money.)

LeechSearchr is a new model for citizen journalism that uses crowdfunding and crowdsourcing to let any yokel do investigative research and make money. LeechSearchr is a tool for compensating whistleblowers, rumormongers and soreheads, and for making us money while doing jackshit, and a vehicle for exposing the world’s hidden truths and blatant untruths.

Formal announcement

303
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:53:01am

re: #302 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Ha ha ha. Well done sir, well done.

304
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:54:13am

re: #303 Eclectic Cyborg

Thanks. I’m debating registering the domain name. :D

305
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:55:41am

The first line says it all.

306
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:57:30am

re: #296 Eclectic Cyborg

I didn’t remember her negotiating anything in that standoff, but then again I purposely don’t pay much attention to what she is doing.

As much as I hate to say this, she really was almost instrumental in getting those clowns to stand down. They might have done it on their own at some point but she talked them off the ledge of going down shooting.

She’s still a complete loon (really, failed actress who’s a gun-humper, hence perfect government hatin’, conspiracy theoryin’ GOPer) and her being in Congress really compares to Bachmann.

Jeez, American politics. Know nothings who hate the government - who want to be the government.

307
BeachDem  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:57:35am

re: #227 Jenner7

[Embedded content]
“If you give a city a bailout, it’s bound to ask for another.” -

A “bailout”.

What an asshole.

Apparently Mike Lee is forming his legislative decisions based on children’s books. Sigh.

If You Give a Dog a Donut
If You Give a Pig a Pancake
If You Give a Moose a Muffin
et al

amazon.com

308
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:57:57am

re: #305 The Vicious Babushka

Oh lord, that rally is going to be hell.

309
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 8:58:28am

re: #297 The Vicious Babushka

She and that other wingnut, Kris Anne, almost got David whatshisname (the last holdout) to blow his brains out, then an adult took over and he came out with his hands up in 5 minutes.

That crazy disbarred attorney definitely was escalating the situation - all for her show. But not Fiore.

310
Barefoot Grin  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:00:49am

Well, fortunately, race isn’t a big issue in St. Louis….

//

311
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:02:45am

Well crap. Series of attacks across Israel - from Jaffa to the Old City:

312
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:06:20am

re: #306 MsJ

A notable feature of Ms Fiore is that prior to the Bundy fracas she was under investigation over the way her home healthcare service took and spent money. That her understanding of personal health including statements like “cancer is a fungus, and curable by baking soda” suggests…not good things…about her MO as a person setting health directives even if she isn’t malfeasant. Which she probably, when you look at what exactly she’s charged with, and how she’s responded.

Like the Bundies, she’s developed a ideology that bends the world around her, so she can be a crook and a moocher that just *so* angry about crooks and moochers. (eta:) I’m not sure her hatred of government can be taken at face value; it has that “for me, but not for them” quality that seems to turn up a lot on the angry, nutty wings of politics.

313
Dr. Matt  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:08:23am

re: #288 The Vicious Babushka

I will be using Facebook and Twitter to expose dishonest lightweight Senator Marco Rubio. A record no-show in Senate, he is scamming Florida

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 7, 2016

Did Rage Furby take over Trump’s twitter account?

314
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:10:55am

re: #312 The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork

A notable feature of Ms Fiore is that prior to the Bundy fracas she was under investigation over the way her home healthcare service took and spent money. That her understanding of personal health including statements like “cancer is a fungus, and curable by baking soda” suggests…not good things…about her MO as a person setting health directives even if she isn’t malfeasant. Which she probably, is when you look at what exactly she’s charged with, and how she’s responded.

Like the Bundies, she’s developed a ideology that bends the world around her, so she can be a crook and a moocher that just *so* angry about crooks and moochers.

And don’t get me wrong, she supported the Bundy’s and involved herself for her own personal gain (hence this run for Congress). Sadlly, she will likely get elected, unless the nutty righties were offended enough about her getting those people to turn themselves in which would be amazing poetic justice.

315
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:11:44am

re: #313 Dr. Matt

Did Rage Furby take over Trump’s twitter account?

I was just thinking that sounds almost EXACTLY like CCJ.

316
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:12:04am

re: #314 MsJ

And don’t get me wrong, she supported the Bundy’s and involved herself for her own personal gain (hence this run for Congress). Sadlly, she will likely get elected, unless the nutty righties were offended enough about her getting those people to turn themselves in which would be amazing poetic justice.

There are plenty of potential candidates to the right of Ms Fiore…

317
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:12:49am

re: #313 Dr. Matt

Did Rage Furby take over Trump’s twitter account?

Trump is a Rage Furby. From his words to his hair to everything about him. They are all trolls from the same family tree.

318
Dr. Matt  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:13:02am

re: #315 Eclectic Cyborg

I was just thinking that sounds almost EXACTLY like CCJ.

Batshit Crazy birds of a feather flock together.

319
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:13:19am

re: #316 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There are plenty of potential candidates to the right of Ms Fiore…

Sigh.

320
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:13:44am

Trump is just like CCJ if CCJ was a billionaire.

321
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:19:17am

re: #310 Barefoot Grin

Well, fortunately, race isn’t a big issue in St. Louis….

//

And because it is not an issue, I hope all the free tickets are taken by BLM members and local African Americans.

It would force TRUMP to either leave the stage or throw them all out and talk just to the media.

322
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:21:48am

re: #312 The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork

Oh, I forgot to mention, Fiore also owes the government damn near a million bucks in taxes.

323
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:25:01am

re: #319 MsJ

There are plenty of potential candidates to the right of Ms Fiore

…Sigh.

and that is what happened when the GOP establishment was too cowardly to face down or at least distance themselves from the TP crazy: they mainstreamed it and created a race to see who can prove themselves the most unadulteratedly pure conservative and Constitutional.

324
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:25:42am

re: #321 ObserverArt

And because it is not an issue, I hope all the free tickets are taken by BLM members and local African Americans.

It would force TRUMP to either leave the stage or throw them all out and talk just to the media.

I would like to see that on one hand, but regardless of what happens, it will help Trump in the polls.

325
A Mom Anon  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:27:23am

re: #233 Nyet

OK, I’m jumping into and out of this with a point:

I have grown my own food, a portion of it at least for close to 20 yrs. I learned most of what I know from my dad’s parents, who owned a greenhouse business when I was a kid, and had a one acre vegetable garden in back of their house. I have lots of books about the history of foods, how some things came to be and the environmental costs of some things. There are a lot of really good places online to find this info, if you don’t fall for unscientific bullshit artists (like that fucking Food Babe moron. The Farm Babe and Science Babe facebook pages are a better place to begin looking) We’ve lost many breeds/cultivars of various plants because of selective farming and monocrop farm practices as food became more industrialized.

EVERY SINGLE FRUIT AND VEGETABLE in markets today is nothing at all like the original. The possible exceptions to this would be some heirloom fruits, vegetables and grains, but those are costly unless you grow them yourself. The original banana that the Cavendish banana came from a breed that was bitter and full of seeds. There’s a list miles long of other things we eat daily that have the same story.

In order to properly label all this stuff to the demands of some consumers would cost more than the damned food in question. The GMO boogie man is insane, you can’t reason with these people about science and what goes into actual food production. Even the label “organic” is misleading because many people believe no chemicals are used in growing and production. Which is impossible. You cannot do large scale crop growing without the use of pesticides, fungicides and other chemistry. Not in a way that would compensate for the huge crop losses from disease and pests, and certainly not in a way that would keep the process in line cost wise. Organic foods are already stupid expensive unless you have lots of money, the cost would be just ridiculous if we went the full “pure” route. People have totally lost touch with where their food comes from and what goes into growing that food. Honestly, we should be less worried about fruits, vegetables and grains and more concerned with processed shit that’s nothing but fat and sugar, THAT is what’s killing us.

326
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:27:56am

re: #290 Great White Snark

Ior all this vaunted testing in labs, it pays to let new drugs exist on the market a year or two, when 90% of unexpected negative effects happen. That’s an analogy that might not pass scientific scrutiny. But we are talking retail sales here. Consumer health and psychology.

The problem with this line of argument is the difference between food and drugs. Drugs are meant to have an effect on physiology. They can interact with different pathways in unforeseen manners,hence the side effects that are seen only in the 1:100000 that don’t show up in phase three testing. Foods are, by definition, not allowed to have physiological effects, this is law. The changes in proteins in food, are not designed to have physiological effects and are highly unlikely to have such effect because the pathways affected in GMO plants are not ones that humans possess.

It’s like comparing apples to centipedes.

327
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:30:59am

re: #325 A Mom Anon

OK, I’m jumping into and out of this with a point:

I have grown my own food, a portion of it at least for close to 20 yrs. I learned most of what I know from my dad’s parents, who owned a greenhouse business when I was a kid, and had a one acre vegetable garden in back of their house.

100 years ago, there were no GMOs (and I mean that in the sense of invasively genetically altered and not hybrid) and most of today’s chemical pesticides and fertilizers were also unknown to us. That is a major change that legislation and regulation have been struggling to keep up with.

328
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:31:25am

re: #323 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

and that is what happened when the GOP establishment was too cowardly to face down or at least distance themselves from the TP crazy: they mainstreamed it and created a race to see who can prove themselves the most unadulteratedly pure conservative and Constitutional.

Constitutional. Bah!

I have to tell you, this whole #YallQaeda thing was EYE. OPENING. I followed it religiously and read everything about it. I watched most of the live casts and all but the last few minutes of the final stand-down (alas, work beckoned).

I was shocked - and I mean shocked! - to read these constitutional nutjobs and sovereign citizens and the things they believe. It’s now a joke in my house about signing signatures a certain way and in a certain color and how we’re going to unlock those untold millions that are just waiting to be distributed to the nutjob sovereign citizen who cracks the code.

My husband really, really wants some judge somewhere to have one of these clowns in their court where the judge whispers to the bailiff “They got code right. Now what do I do? This never happened before.”

329
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:31:44am

re: #299 ObserverArt

Hey, thanks for that link. Not only was the Obama vid fun, I saw an ad on the side that let me know the ‘genius pill’ has been banned in ‘all’ 49 states except Ohio. Now I need to find out if I need the pill and why Ohio in no longer a state…or are we the 50th with reservations?

There must be some kind of mistake. I am assured Alabama is the only state where it’s not banned.

330
A Cranky One  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:33:39am

re: #329 Decatur Deb

There must be some kind of mistake. I am assured Alabama is the only state where it’s not banned.

But wait, the ad I saw said it was banned everywhere but Illinois!

I think the ad agency needs some of them genius pills.

/

331
Decatur Deb  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:36:30am

re: #330 A Cranky One

But wait, the ad I saw said it was banned everywhere but Illinois!

I think the ad agency needs some of them genius pills.

/

Then they’d advertise on sites with pro-Trump videos.

332
Romantic Heretic  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:36:43am

re: #255 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

and what about a bank, or an entire financial sector?

That’s different. Bailing out incompetent, corrupt businesses is capitalism. Helping a city fucked over by its state government is Communism!

Don’t you get it? COMMUNISM!

333
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:36:58am

re: #327 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It should all be very, very strictly regulated. (Labeling is not a part of it; it should be safe before it reaches markets - whether it’s GMO or not).

334
Lidane  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:37:34am

That sound you hear is Drumpf’s lawyers reaching for the booze and Tums:

335
A Mom Anon  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:39:48am

re: #327 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

100 years ago we didn’t have so many people to feed either. The land needed to grow food, arable farmland hasn’t expanded either, at least not without destroying forests (like what is happening in Brazil right now)

My great grandparents were farmers in Ohio. They grew pretty much everything they needed to feed their family on that farm. The surplus was sold at market. They grew all kinds of vegetables, had chickens, cows and an orchard that grew apples and nuts. That model is pretty much dead now, though there are some efforts to bring that stuff back. We have more people now than ever who are not at all interested in how their food gets to market, much of which is not at all sustainable. California is having issues with water now, but in addition to that, the same land has been used to grow the same crops for decades and in order to do that, massive amounts of fertilizers are required.

My point is that we didn’t need to alter and hybridize crops 100 years ago because the population being fed didn’t need as big of an output coming from those farms. I hope I’m making sense.

336
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:41:25am

re: #327 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is a mechanism in nature which allows for what we are now doing with GMOs.

It just works far, far slower.

337
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:43:16am

re: #336 Ziggy_TARDIS

There is a mechanism in nature which allows for what we are now doing with GMOs.

It just works far, far slower.

And much less controlled.
We know what genes we modify. The resulting products still need rigorous testing, but it’s not like we’re trying to play genetic pinata.

338
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:44:22am

re: #336 Ziggy_TARDIS

Yup. The Native Americans took grasses and crossed them until they ended up with maize. That took quite a while. Basically, no crop we grow and eat has not been massively modified.

339
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:44:35am

re: #335 A Mom Anon

My point is that we didn’t need to alter and hybridize crops 100 years ago because the population being fed didn’t need as big of an output coming from those farms. I hope I’m making sense.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that the nature of the food we eat and our relation to the grower/producer has changed almost entirely.

Remember how 100 years ago the cliche image of rich people was portly while the poor were gaunt and lank? Now it is the opposite. That tells us a lot about our relationship to food and nutrition.

And nowadays, the challenge is not so much to produce enough food to provide everyone with sufficient calories, vitamins and protein, as it is to do it cheaply and efficiently as possible.

And that cheapness and efficiency is not necessarily for the sake of the consumers, but for the sake the producers so as to increase their profit margins.

340
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:44:54am

re: #338 Le Lapin Tueur

Yup. The Native Americans took grasses and crossed them until they ended up with maize. That took quite a while. Basically, no crop we grow and eat has not been massively modified.

x years ago there was no maize. There should be a law!

341
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:45:15am

re: #338 Le Lapin Tueur

Yup. The Native Americans took grasses and crossed them until they ended up with maize. That took quite a while. Basically, no crop we grow and eat has not been massively modified.

That is why the “Paleo Diet” is such bullshit.

342
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:45:45am

re: #336 Ziggy_TARDIS

There is a mechanism in nature which allows for what we are now doing with GMOs.

It just works far, far slower.

I pointed out in earlier comments that cross breeding and invasive gene altering are just two variants of the same thing, its just that the latter is the turbo-speed version of it.

Which is why I think it calls for increased levels of caution and circumspection.

343
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:46:16am

re: #337 Nyet

Yep.

Complaining about GMOs is incredibly silly.

Let me quote Norman Borlaug on this.

I now say that the world has the technology - either available or well advanced in the research pipeline - to feed on a sustainable basis a population of 10 billion people. The more pertinent question today is whether farmers and ranchers will be permitted to use this new technology? While the affluent nations can certainly afford to adopt ultra low-risk positions, and pay more for food produced by the so-called “organic” methods, the one billion chronically undernourished people of the low income, food-deficit nations cannot.

Some of the environmental lobbyists of the western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They have never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels. If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they would be crying out for tractors, and fertilizer, and irrigation canals, and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things.

344
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:47:19am

re: #341 The Vicious Babushka

345
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:47:55am
346
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:48:01am

re: #342 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

We have been doing that already. That’s how Monsanto ended up with a monopoly.

We have already been doing research for decades, and the health effects have been shown to be few. Accept the science, and move on.

347
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:48:08am

re: #342 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I pointed out in earlier comments that cross breeding and invasive gene altering are just two variants of the same thing, its just that the latter is the turbo-speed version of it.

Which is why I think it calls for increased levels of caution and circumspection.

I don’t see anyone arguing against caution. It’s just this caution should be on the level of the researchers, the producers and the regulatory authorities (especially them).

348
Charles Johnson  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:48:27am

Trump adviser tweets link to Chuck Johnson’s idiotic Rubio hit piece - but at a site that doesn’t link to Chuck! Guaranteed to send Rage Furby into a rage.

349
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:49:00am

re: #343 Ziggy_TARDIS

That’s what I try to keep in mind too, yes.

350
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:51:20am

re: #341 The Vicious Babushka

That is why the “Paleo Diet” is such bullshit.

There’s no mammoth on that diet. I want a diet with mammoth on the allowed list! /

351
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:52:42am

Truth in advertising and food labeling.

Want to get people to eat healthier? Instead of labeling how much sugar, starches, carbs, etc., are in a food, how about:

Eating more than 10 chips in a day will result in thunder thighs.
Eating fewer than 4 Girl Scout Thin Mints in a sitting is impossible. Eating more than 4 will result in higher blood pressure (but you’ll be happier for it) .
Kale: Rabbit food that’s actually awful.
Spinach: Be like Popeye, it really is that good for you.
Steak: Steak is good. In moderation. More than 6 oz a day puts you on road to heart attack.

/////

Seriously though, food consumption is all about moderation (except the Thin Mints, which are the equivalent of food crack).

GMO? Yeah, not a single grain or animal-based food we eat today resembles anything like what people ate 100 years ago - whether it’s due to cross-breeding, the food used in growing the animals, or the grains and fruits and vegetables that have been hybridized to maximize yields or resist pests or reduce water needs, or preserve look for store shelves rather than taste.

That’s why I’ll stick to moderation. I’ll moderately eat this, or that. And not worry about GMO labeling, which seems more like a solution in search of a problem - and that will create a bigger problem down the line.

352
wrenchwench  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:53:47am

re: #151 Alyosha

Each piece of fruit and veggie ought to have a wee pamphlet on evolution attached to it.
I can get behind that kind of labelling if it weren’t so preachy and cost-prohibitive.

It was nice to avoid the feeling of ‘I have to log in! Somebody’s wrong on the internet!’ when I peaked in with insomnia early this AM, thanks to you and Nyet and klys and so many others.

This one is my favorite.

353
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:53:55am

re: #350 MsJ

There’s no mammoth on that diet. I want a diet with mammoth on the allowed list! /

Pssst. There’s this museum in Yakutia… 1000$/100g.

354
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:54:04am

re: #351 lawhawk

Hell, I’m pretty sure the animals they ate 100 years ago were significantly altered compared to what they ate 1000 years ago.

355
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:55:11am
356
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:56:26am

re: #345 The Vicious Babushka

Those are, um, classic! (sorry). They really nailed Trump’s utterly simplistic mind.

357
sagehen  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:56:57am

re: #339 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Remember how 100 years ago the cliche image of rich people was portly while the poor were gaunt and lank? Now it is the opposite. That tells us a lot about our relationship to food and nutrition.

The beauty standard isn’t so much about our relationship to food, as our relationship to work.

200 years ago, when ordinary working people were mostly in agriculture, a “beautiful” woman had a couch potato figure, never-leaves-the-house complexion, and 0 calluses. 100 years ago, when ordinary working people were in factories, a “beautiful” woman had a sun-kissed complexion and walks-around-a-bit-and-rides-horses figure. Today, when ordinary working people are mostly in offices and stores, a “beautiful” woman has beach bunny skin and a tennis player body.

359
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:58:20am

re: #357 sagehen

The beauty standard isn’t so much about our relationship to food, as our relationship to work.

.

That and the fact that cheap processed food makes us obese.

360
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 9:58:26am

re: #353 Nyet

Pssst. There’s this museum in Yakutia… 1000$/100g.

That’ll limit how much one eats!

361
Timothy Watson  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:00:27am

re: #355 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Meh, BBB, they’re a bunch of scammers and shakedown artists too.

362
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:00:49am

re: #342 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I pointed out in earlier comments that cross breeding and invasive gene altering are just two variants of the same thing, its just that the latter is the turbo-speed version of it.

Which is why I think it calls for increased levels of caution and circumspection.

I asked earlier but you did not reply. Can you tell us what your concern is with the trubo-charged foods? Again, not trying to make you the person to dump on, I just wonder what the concern is for you?

Is it that the foods lose nutrition, become dangerous and can lead to disease like cancers, or it may alter human DNA/tissue?

The only reason I ask you is you seem to have studied beyond what most have. I see too many people that freak out to freak out without any reason other than a celebrity or web site scaring them.

363
wrenchwench  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:02:23am

re: #361 Timothy Watson

Meh, BBB, they’re a bunch of scammers and shakedown artists too.

I had a BBB salesman make me cry once when I wouldn’t sign up. Not ‘til after he left, though, after I yelled at him.

364
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:02:37am
365
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:04:21am

Christ on a crutch.

366
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:05:34am

re: #345 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

You know..the more this moron rattles on in his campaign the more and more I start to think he is really a simpleton and if not the fact that he got a great start with his father giving him big bucks and a bully lesson on how to get over on people he really would be on a street corner selling knock-off watches, or flipping burgers at a NYC Wendy’s

I guess he isn’t concerned about or aware of what he is doing to his “brand” but he will not be seen the same after this is all over.

367
A Mom Anon  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:06:30am

re: #347 Nyet

I’d rather see the energy spent on GMO bashing directed at better regulatory agencies (who could actually DO something) and laws, than scaring the hell out of people over things that they really have no need to be frightened of.

It’s not just hippy dippy granola hippies doing this either. My super wingnutty neighbors are off the deep end over this and all that holistic medicine nonsense. Their oldest child is expecting their first grandkid and that has triggered an even more severe reaction from them. New Mommy registered at the most expensive baby store in town, she will only use Honesty brand (the Jessica Alba company) diapers (30 dollars a box, as opposed to 12 dollars for Huggies) and baby products. All organic food, and on and on. They think everything causes cancer now, since New Mom’s grandma is recovering from cancer. My neighbor is pushing turmeric as a cure on her mom now, saying it has been proven to make chemo and radiation obsolete. These are gun toting Trump supporters who are extremely religious. My neighbor just spent 100 dollars on essential oils right before the holidays for weight loss. She hasn’t lost weight and is still doing it.

Science. How does it work? GAH.

368
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:06:54am

Hey, did CuriousLurker ever find out why Graeme Wood sounded familiar?

The guy who wrote how DAESH is completely Islamic?

If she didn’t I found it.

369
withak  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:08:46am

re: #367 A Mom Anon

I’d rather see the energy spent on GMO bashing directed at better regulatory agencies (who could actually DO something) and laws, than scaring the hell out of people over things that they really have no need to be frightened of.

It’s not just hippy dippy granola hippies doing this either. My super wingnutty neighbors are off the deep end over this and all that holistic medicine nonsense. Their oldest child is expecting their first grandkid and that has triggered an even more severe reaction from them. New Mommy registered at the most expensive baby store in town, she will only use Honesty brand (the Jessica Alba company) diapers (30 dollars a box, as opposed to 12 dollars for Huggies) and baby products. All organic food, and on and on. They think everything causes cancer now, since New Mom’s grandma is recovering from cancer. My neighbor is pushing turmeric as a cure on her mom now, saying it has been proven to make chemo and radiation obsolete. These are gun toting Trump supporters who are extremely religious. My neighbor just spent 100 dollars on essential oils right before the holidays for weight loss. She hasn’t lost weight and is still doing it.

Science. How does it work? GAH.

Essential oils seem to be extremely popular with the wingnut set.

370
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:09:22am

re: #362 ObserverArt

I asked earlier but you did not reply. Can you tell us what your concern is with the trubo-charged foods? Again, not trying to make you the person to dump on, I just wonder what the concern is for you?

Mostly an economic one: so that there is transparency and traceability to the companies that produce them. Should something happen, these people need to be made answerable.

That is just basic economics: the price of a product should represent the sum of its costs, even the downstream costs. Unfortunately, those costs are all too often socialized long after the companies have taken their profits.

371
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:10:30am

re: #367 A Mom Anon

I’d rather see the energy spent on GMO bashing directed at better regulatory agencies (who could actually DO something) and laws, than scaring the hell out of people over things that they really have no need to be frightened of.

Again: a matter of transparency and answerability. Just good policy, both economic and political.

372
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:14:07am

re: #370 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Answerable for what exactly?

373
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:14:52am

re: #370 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Mostly an economic one: so that there is transparency and traceability to the companies that produce them. Should something happen, these people need to be made answerable.

That is just basic economics: the price of a product should represent the sum of its costs, even the downstream costs. Unfortunately, those costs are all too often socialized long after the companies have taken their profits.

Ahhh. Thanks.

It sort of goes with so much with any kind of production and sales. Very similar to the concerns of the pharmaceutical industry.

And it goes to the question that I can never get an MBA/Business person to answer…how much profit is needed or is too much and where is the balance in greed and fulfilling societal need.

374
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:15:00am

A couple of days ago I made mac ‘n’ cheese using 1/2 the pasta (whole grain) and substituting cauliflower and broccoli. Came out excellent!

375
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:16:43am

re: #370 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I should also note that Organic foods are far more costly to the environment.

376
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:21:15am

Found something else interesting about Tulsi Gabbard.

Apparently, she is connected to the BJP in India.

377
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:21:31am

Is Dana Muhguns referring to CCJ? There is no context for this Tweet.

378
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:22:20am

re: #374 The Vicious Babushka

A couple of days ago I made mac ‘n’ cheese using 1/2 the pasta (whole grain) and substituting cauliflower and broccoli. Came out excellent!

I have one of those shredders that looks like a potato peeler but makes long strands instead of peels and I make zucchini “pasta” all the time. It comes out looking like spaghetti squash after you’ve flaked it. Nuke the zucc for 1 minute and add whatever sauce you want. If you peel the zucchini first so the green is gone, you’d never know it wasn’t pasta. I take the zucc all the way down on four sides until there is a small, square core of seeds which the dogs covet. Make long strands of zucch and mix it in with same length spaghetti pasta and viola! A more healthy spaghetti.

The things I do to cheat my diabetic hubby into thinking he’s eating things he really shouldn’t be eating.

379
Nojay UK  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:22:23am

re: #362 ObserverArt

I asked earlier but you did not reply. Can you tell us what your concern is with the trubo-charged foods? Again, not trying to make you the person to dump on, I just wonder what the concern is for you?

Is it that the foods lose nutrition, become dangerous and can lead to disease like cancers, or it may alter human DNA/tissue?

The only reason I ask you is you seem to have studied beyond what most have. I see too many people that freak out to freak out without any reason other than a celebrity or web site scaring them.

A lot of the anti-GMO thinking is similar in structure to the propositions put forward by anti-vaccination pundits, that putting “un-natural” substances in our bodies is wrong. They fixate on details (mercury in preservatives, fetal tissue, formaldehyde etc.) or promote anecdotal stories and straight-out lies about the harm vaccines do and at the same time emphasise their ineffectiveness. The core these memes are built around is Evil Big Pharma which is making billions or even trillions of dollars each year out of killing and maiming kids, they claim. Many folks on the anti-GMO side of things violently reject such thinking about vaccines while doing the same dance when it comes to GMO and Evil Big Monsanto which is making billions of dollars each year crushing America’s small farmers underfoot and poisoning kids with Frankenfood, they claim.

The facts are clear but the anti-GMO brigade aren’t interested in facts — for example, Roundup Ready (RR) seed is now out of patent and any farmer who wants to can save RR seed and plant it next year if they so wish. It will perform badly as it’s a crop grain meant to be eaten, not optimised for productive growth like the F1 hybrids sold as seed grain by Monsanto and others fresh each year. Yields of replanted saved grain can be as little as 50% of a hybrid seed. Storing seed properly on the farm to prevent disease and pest damage is another problem for seed savers and is part of the reason the Dept of Agriculture doesn’t offer crop insurance to replanters. Monsanto and the other seed companies have a tested proven production and storage system already set up, with guarantees of quality.

380
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:23:16am

re: #375 Ziggy_TARDIS

I should also note that Organic foods are far more costly to the environment.

Not just more expensive, but often more bullshit, too. They get you to pay more for a word, because it is not always a “thing”.

381
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:25:54am

re: #377 The Vicious Babushka

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, except if your Chucky. In that case, throw everything out there and rely on rumor and innuendo.

382
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:26:06am

re: #376 Ziggy_TARDIS

She apparently also goes out of her way to bash Muslims.

I am willing to make the connection, and tie that directly to Sanders.

383
A Mom Anon  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:26:25am

re: #375 Ziggy_TARDIS

Food production in general is not great for the air, water or soil. I’m not sure what the answer is honestly, because the population growth is not sustainable for the land mass that produces our food. And really, in the developed world we’re spoiled rotten and think we’re entitled to massive abundance and a stupid degree of perfection.

A rice has been developed with Vitamin A added to it, it’s yellow in color and high in nutritional value. It will help developing nations with blindness and other deficiency related disease. Greenpeace is having a fit over it and has gone so far as to block shipping routes to prevent it from getting to where it needs to go. I can assure you these activists have never once had to worry about vitamin deficiency related illness. Privilege leads to it’s own kind of blindness.

Many of the same people who are most vocal about this stuff are also anti vaccine. Women in developing nations will sometimes walk for days to get their children vaccinated. While here in the US privileged know it all “I have a Google PhD in research” moms are ignorant of the fact that the only reason their little snowflakes are even remotely protected from diseases is because of herd immunity. I think the internet’s biggest drawback is this kind of shit right here. That and cutbacks to education are going to be the death of us as a civilization at some point if things don’t change.

384
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:32:39am

re: #378 MsJ

I have one of those shredders that looks like a potato peeler but makes long strands instead of peels and I make zucchini “pasta” all the time. It comes out looking like spaghetti squash after you’ve flaked it. Nuke the zucc for 1 minute and add whatever sauce you want. If you peel the zucchini first so the green is gone, you’d never know it wasn’t pasta. I take the zucc all the way down on four sides until there is a small, square core of seeds which the dogs covet. Make long strands of zucch and mix it in with same length spaghetti pasta and viola! A more healthy spaghetti.

The things I do to cheat my diabetic hubby into thinking he’s eating things he really shouldn’t be eating.

You can also make lasagna with portobello mushroom slices.

385
wrenchwench  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:32:40am

I thought my brother the batrachologist in Colombia had participated in the first release of a GMO in a planting of strawberries at UCBerkeley. Turns out it wasn’t the first, but may have been part of that first project.

In searching that down, I found an excellent article on GMOs by this guy:

I am a molecular biologist with a background in infectious diseases, cancer genomics, developmental biology, classical genetics, evolution and ecology. I am not a plant biologist, but I understand the underlying technology and relevant areas of biology. I would put myself firmly in the “pro GMO” camp, but I have absolutely nothing material to gain from this position. My lab is supported by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. I am not currently, have never been in the past, and do not plan in the future, to receive any personal or laboratory support from any company that makes or otherwise has a vested interest in GMOs. My vested interest here is science, and what I write here, I write to defend it. - See more at: michaeleisen.org

Yay, science!

386
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:34:04am
387
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:34:54am

re: #376 Ziggy_TARDIS

Found something else interesting about Tulsi Gabbard.

Apparently, she is connected to the BJP in India.

Well, that is certainly an article to follow further. There is a lot to be learned about Tulsi Gabbard. She sure seems to have hit the media a lot lately. She is polished and pretty slick with her answers from what I’ve seen of her. I get a feeling she is looking to build her power base so there will be more articles pro and con about her.

388
Nojay UK  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:36:20am

re: #353 Nyet

There’s no mammoth on that diet. I want a diet with mammoth on the allowed list! /

Pssst. There’s this museum in Yakutia… 1000$/100g.

Is it fresh or frozen? For that price it had better be fresh.

389
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:36:21am

re: #387 ObserverArt

I notice that Hindus in the US haven’t joined with other groups to help Muslims under pressure from Republicans.

I will remember that for the rest of my life.

390
MsJ  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:36:56am

re: #384 The Vicious Babushka

You can also make lasagna with portobello mushroom slices.

That’s a really good idea! I am going to use that one for sure.

Why didn’t I think of that? Brilliant! Thanks!

391
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:37:18am

re: #374 The Vicious Babushka

A couple of days ago I made mac ‘n’ cheese using 1/2 the pasta (whole grain) and substituting cauliflower and broccoli. Came out excellent!

I learned a long time ago that if you put the slightest amount of effort, you can whip up good food that is cheap and nearly as quick as convenient (and ten times tastier and healthier) than anything processed.

392
Belafon  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:38:18am

re: #389 Ziggy_TARDIS

I notice that Hindus in the US haven’t joined with other groups to help Muslims under pressure from Republicans.

I will remember that for the rest of my life.

Are you Thorn Oakenshield?

393
wrenchwench  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:38:50am
394
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:38:54am

re: #376 Ziggy_TARDIS

Found something else interesting about Tulsi Gabbard.

Apparently, she is connected to the BJP in India.

Wow. A BernieBro star.

395
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:38:56am

re: #359 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

That and the fact that cheap processed food makes us obese.

No. Eating more calories than you expend makes you obese. The cheap part of it makes it easy to afford more and the processed tingles the pleasure receptors in your lizard (heh) brain that makes you eat more, which makes you obese. The fact that our lives are much more sedentary than evolution expects doesn’t help, either.

396
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:41:23am

re: #388 Nojay UK

Is it fresh or frozen? For that price it had better be fresh.

Frozen. You may have heard of it, too. “Trump Steak”.

397
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:41:50am

re: #389 Ziggy_TARDIS

I notice that Hindus in the US haven’t joined with other groups to help Muslims under pressure from Republicans.

Don’t.

398
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:41:55am

re: #389 Ziggy_TARDIS

I notice that Hindus in the US haven’t joined with other groups to help Muslims under pressure from Republicans.

I will remember that for the rest of my life.

That’s Sikh!

399
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:42:10am

re: #386 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Rumors that Ted Cruz has friends were greatly exaggerated.

400
Jay C  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:42:45am

re: #388 Nojay UK

Is it fresh or frozen? For that price it had better be fresh.

Ummm… if it is indeed mammoth meat, I think “frozen” is kind of the only option….

(but perfect for the “Paleolithic Diet”!)

401
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:42:50am

TV showing anti-Trump ad that includes clips of Trump’s speeches where his curse words are bleeped out.

Note: this is supposed to be an anti-Trump ad.

402
lawhawk  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:43:19am
403
Ziggy_TARDIS  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:43:44am

re: #402 lawhawk

That was obvious.

404
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:43:56am

re: #401 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

TV showing anti-Trump ad that includes clips of Trump’s speeches where his curse words are bleeped out.

Note: this is supposed to be an anti-Trump ad.

They are doing it wrong.

405
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:44:40am

re: #402 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

MILITIA LIVES MATTER!!

406
ObserverArt  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:46:36am

Gah…my computer is so slow right now. Got too much stuff going on with Photoshop, InDesign and Adobe Acrobat building a PDF portfolio of my work. I’m gonna have to shut it all down to clear it up a bit and start it all over again to get back to work.

Later…good discussions today…see you all later for election coverage.

407
Nyet  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:49:08am

Scientists uncover frozen mammoth, blood flows out

One could make a very rare steak.

408
The Ghost of Bork Bork Bork Bork  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:50:28am

re: #389 Ziggy_TARDIS

409
Le Lapin Tueur  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:50:35am

re: #384 The Vicious Babushka

You can also make lasagna with portobello mushroom slices.

Eggplant (aubergine) works well, too. Here’s an Alton Brown Eggplant Pasta recipe where the eggplant is the pasta.

410
A Mom Anon  Mar 8, 2016 • 10:52:07am

re: #391 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

We’ve gone on the DASH Diet here. (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) It’s been around for a long time, at least 20 plus years. It is also effective for Diabetes, Heart Disease and High Cholesterol. The Husband is the one with health issues, he’s on the strictest version I can do sensibly. He’s got to the point where he doesn’t like fatty foods anymore. We had Waffle House over the weekend and he got kind of sick from it. He’s lost 26 lbs in the last 3 months since we started. I’ve lost a few lbs, but I still eat my chocolate and cookies, just not as much. You can eat, quite a bit actually, and it’s all good food, not a bunch of fad diet crap. I recommend it highly. I wouldn’t even call it a diet, it’s just common sense.

Before this, The Husband decided he was going on some expensive and stupid cleansing juice fast. He spent a ridiculous amount on some power blender (which I am about to put back in the box and sell, it would literally make a car payment) and a bunch of kale, bok choy and fruit. He got sick because his blood sugar shot up to almost 500. He lasted 3 days and then came to me for help. He went to one of those stupid health guru website featuring some “nutrition babe” type person in cute yoga pants who has no fucking idea what nutrition is and swore to me she was an expert. Yeah, as we see. That juice fasting thing is not just wasteful, it concentrates all the sugars in the fruits and veggies used, and it can be dangerous for people with blood sugar issues. I am optimistic that The Husband might be able to be on fewer meds when he sees the doctor again.

411
Amory Blaine  Mar 8, 2016 • 12:04:28pm

I eat anything.

412
wrenchwench  Mar 8, 2016 • 2:42:07pm

This belongs here.

413
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 9, 2016 • 9:23:10am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

ho lee fuck


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 64 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 165 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1