An Amazing Tiny Desk Concert by the Tedeschi Trucks Band

Real music by real people

MusicMarch 2016 • Views: 51,395

March 25, 2016 by FELIX CONTRERAS

When singer-guitarist Susan Tedeschi sings and plays, you can hear the sound move from the Mississippi Delta up to Chicago. As this video shows, she can dispense uptempo dance grooves and coax her voice around the anguished lyric of the blues.

At the same time, guitarist Derek Trucks seems to summon forth the entirety of contemporary music when he slides his bottle neck up and down the fretboard. As you’ll see, The Tedeschi Trucks Band functions in the service of a collective vision that celebrates the blues, jazz and so much more.

Let Me Get By is available now:
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/let-me-get-by/id1058758981
Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0188M0XP8/?tag=littlegreenfo-20

Set List:
“Just As Strange”
“Don’t Know What It Is”
“Anyhow”

Credits:
Producers: Bob Boilen, Felix Contreras, Niki Walker; Audio Engineers: Josh Rogosin, Kevin Wait; Videographers: Niki Walker, Kara Frame, Cameron Robert, Morgan McCloy; Production Assistant: Jackson Sinnenberg; Photo: Matailong Du/NPR.

For more Tiny Desk concerts, subscribe to our podcast: http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510292/tiny-desk-concerts-video

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376 comments

Barefoot Grin Mar 25, 2016 • 8:10:15pm

That is so great. In 35 years of playing I’ve improved a lot, but slide remains a mystery and Derek Trucks is such a master. Love Susan T’s and the chorus’ vocal’s too.

nines09 Mar 25, 2016 • 8:12:47pm

Had the pleasure of sitting 15 feet from Susan when the Tedeschi Trucks Band played Bryce Jordan Center early 2015. She was looking at her amp because it just wasn’t doing what she wanted it to do. So she just dug down and wailed, and played harder. Derek slapped and pulled and broke a few strings. They had a killer horn section (maybe these guys) and some backup singers that absolutely killed. One more band to not miss before you checkout. I think Derek plays everything in open E. Ronnie Wood did some fantastic stuff in open E. I like open E. So does Derek. Go see them.
Oh and if I had only kept that CASE of Coricidin bottles I stumbled across back in the day…..

gocart mozart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:15:37pm

CLEVELAND- Support is growing for an online petition to allow guns inside Quicken Loans Arena during the Republican National Convention. More than 4,000 people have signed the change.org petition since it was started two days ago. Quicken Loans Arena, the location of many RNC events, does not allow firearms or any other weapons on its premises. The petition said the policy is “a direct affront to the Second Amendment” and “puts all attendees at risk.” It also calls Cleveland one of the most dangerous cities in the United States, citing an October 2015 Forbes article.

fox8.com

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:15:38pm

I made kind of a nice score on Bob Mould’s new album this evening. Barnes & Noble had a special version of the vinyl lp with an autographed poster included. I got the only copy that the store had, and with discounts it was about $15.

B&N had a special edition of Bowie’s last album on clear vinyl that sold out in a flash when Bowie passed away (I had it on my wish list). The clerk said that people are still calling for that album every day and have offered $500 for a copy (which they don’t have).

While I was there, I rummaged through the $5 bin and picked up James Gang Rides Again because I still love that album. I can still remember calling the local ‘progressive’ radio station (now a brain-dead station) on the rotary phone to find out who the hell that band was when they played ‘The Bomber’. It’s also one of the great albums for completely dissimilar A & B sides. One of the top 10 in that regard? For me it is.

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:19:04pm

re: #3 gocart mozart

I wonder if there’s any bottom limit to how much worse this convention can get?

calochortus Mar 25, 2016 • 8:20:41pm

re: #5 stpaulbear

Every time I think the GOP campaign can’t get any worse, it does. So I’m going to say no, there is no bottom limit.

gocart mozart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:20:57pm

re: #5 stpaulbear

It should be open bar as well as open carry.

GlutenFreeJesus Mar 25, 2016 • 8:23:26pm

re: #4 stpaulbear

Damn. Didn’t even know Bob had a new album. Thank you. And thank you Spotify!

MsJ Mar 25, 2016 • 8:23:55pm

re: #3 gocart mozart

fox8.com

Man. I’m mobile so that petition didn’t come up when I clicked over to Change org, so I tried searching. There is some terrible, awful things going on in the world.

God help us. We’ve devolved into animals.

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:25:43pm

re: #8 GlutenFreeJesus

Damn. Didn’t even know Bob had a new album. Thank you. And thank you Spotify!

It just came out today.

William Lewis Mar 25, 2016 • 8:25:48pm

re: #8 GlutenFreeJesus

Grant had one out not that long ago too. Good to see them both still making music.

nines09 Mar 25, 2016 • 8:26:41pm

re: #7 gocart mozart

It should be open bar as well as open carry.

I say free drink for every round you carry. Free shots for every handgun. Have target practice in the parking lot. Win, win. Maybe they can dig up Charlton Heston and he can play El Cid.

Alyosha Mar 25, 2016 • 8:27:42pm

You’ve got to be fucking kidding me…

Hopefully caucusers will take heed to this on #WesternSaturday. pic.twitter.com/Txrzai6Rne #BirdieSanders #AKcaucus #HIcaucus #WAcaucus

— Anthony B. (@PoliticalAnt) March 26, 2016

But Clinton supporters are the blindly-enamoured fantasists…

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:31:11pm

re: #13 Alyosha

You’ve got to be fucking kidding me…

[Embedded content]

But Clinton supporters are the blindly-enamoured fantasists…

So, since the bird didn’t land on Sanders’ shoulder, it seem to have rejected him as the future leader…right?

calochortus Mar 25, 2016 • 8:32:48pm

re: #14 FormerDirtDart

So, since the bird didn’t land on Sanders’ shoulder, it seem to have rejected him as the future leader…right?

Podium 2016!

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Mar 25, 2016 • 8:33:05pm

re: #5 stpaulbear

I wonder if there’s any bottom limit to how much worse this convention can get?

Whatever that limit is, I think they’ll plumb it. This Ted Cruz sex scandal may make an open convention less likely, but I still think the party bosses will try some kind of jiggery-pokery to deny Trump the nomination, except now they can’t even try to ease in the second-place guy. I think they’ll fail, giving them the worst of both worlds—just as much resentment and anger as if they had succeeded, but still stuck with Trump as the nominee, only tarred with the fact that even his own party doesn’t want him. I can see lots of bible-thumpers just staying home—the ones who appeared out of nowhere to vote down gay marriage in various states in 2004 and incidentally flipped the presidential election.

The question in my mind is who they run in 2020. Trump’s loss (fingers crossed) was of course due to the fact that he wasn’t conservative enough—that’s always the reason. And actually, it’s true—he’s a fascist, a racist, and an asshole, but he’s from a civilized state. He’s never going to be satisfactory on the regressive social issues that are so important to the base.

Normally it would be Cruz’ “turn”, but if this scandal knocks him out of the box, then what? Can they find someone crazier than Cruz? I suppose that’s one well there is no bottom to….

Barefoot Grin Mar 25, 2016 • 8:33:15pm

re: #2 nines09

Had the pleasure of sitting 15 feet from Susan when the Tedeschi Trucks Band played Bryce Jordan Center early 2015. She was looking at her amp because it just wasn’t doing what she wanted it to do. So she just dug down and wailed, and played harder. Derek slapped and pulled and broke a few strings. They had a horn section and some backup singers that absolutely killed. One more band to not miss before you checkout. I think Derek plays everything in open E. Ronnie Wood did some fantastic stuff in open E. I like open E. So does Derek. Go see them.

I like open E, open G, and drop D, but I don’t know how to go beyond the major chords they set up. Or at least not without specific study. I have tried slide a few times, but I just suck.

I found that I could play most of XTC’s “Love on a Farmboy’s Wages” in open E, but had trouble with the middle. When I look at the video, which may not be a faithful reproduction of how they play it, it looks standard. But who cares? It was fun trying.

Alyosha Mar 25, 2016 • 8:33:26pm

re: #14 FormerDirtDart

It didn’t sing patriotic Korean songs, so I’m skeptical.

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:33:55pm

re: #15 calochortus

Podium 2016!

President Podium and Vice President Teleprompter

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:36:41pm

The Stones’ Havana setlist. pic.twitter.com/4z1CNf3pf3

— Don Van Natta Jr. (@DVNJr) March 26, 2016

calochortus Mar 25, 2016 • 8:36:45pm

re: #19 FormerDirtDart

President Podium and Vice President Teleprompter

How can they lose?

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 8:38:50pm

re: #18 Alyosha

It didn’t sing patriotic Korean songs, so I’m skeptical.

Of course not. Birds only do that when they perch upon a podium being used by a member of the Kim dynasty.

b.d. Mar 25, 2016 • 8:39:40pm

re: #20 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Quick. Who is older, Fidel or Mick?

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 8:40:43pm

re: #20 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

I hope that the performance of Sympathy For The Devil is recorded. That one’s a favorite of mine.

Barefoot Grin Mar 25, 2016 • 8:40:53pm

re: #20 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Ending with Satisfaction is brilliant.

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:41:45pm

re: #11 William Lewis

Grant had one out not that long ago too. Good to see them both still making music.

I used to live in the Macalester College neighborhood so I used to run into Grant at the local record store now and then. The conversation I remember most is him being all excited about the new album and the cover of Eight Miles High that they’d just finished. The album turned out to be Zen Arcade. The other memory I have of that conversation is that Grant really needed to take a shower.

The band I was in back then played the Seventh Street Entry a lot and our guitarist Colin was the one of the first guys who tuned in to Husker Du (Greg and Colin worked at the same record shop). Colin produced their first 45 and they used to open for us until they hit the road. That was back in their Land Speed Record days so it was all a bit too much for me. I finally started connecting with them around the time of the song ‘Diane’.

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 8:43:04pm

re: #19 FormerDirtDart

President Podium and Vice President Teleprompter

We’ve already got President Teleprompter in office right now.

/////////

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Mar 25, 2016 • 8:43:07pm

re: #20 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

No Beast of Burden? In Cuba?

calochortus Mar 25, 2016 • 8:44:02pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

We’ve already got President Teleprompter in office right now.

/////////

Updinged because I’m feeling mellow tonight. :)

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:44:53pm

re: #14 FormerDirtDart

So, since the bird didn’t land on Sanders’ shoulder, it seem to have rejected him as the future leader…right?

Little Jimmy Dickens - May The Bird Of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose

Barefoot Grin Mar 25, 2016 • 8:44:57pm

re: #28 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

No Beast of Burden? In Cuba?

Nope. But there’s “You Got the Silver” [KR]

nines09 Mar 25, 2016 • 8:46:45pm

re: #17 Barefoot Grin

Here. This is Ronnie Wood. Tune your guitar to open E. Get a slide you like. This is a song that can do it for you. You just may get it. No fingering. Just 2 string, 3 string 4 string slide. Bass to treble. Tune in and you can get it. They just pan back and forth on the sound. Hit your open lower E string. Then with that ringing go up to the upper E (12th) on the 3 high strings. Hear it? It’s a great song to just wail away on. Here. Enjoy. The Faces Around The Plynth

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:47:42pm

Chris Christie pouring his bag of M&M’s into a bigger bag of MORE M&M’s is a savage and perplexing move pic.twitter.com/xynYXfswGc

— Pete Blackburn (@PeteBlackburn) March 26, 2016

Decatur Deb Mar 25, 2016 • 8:50:47pm

re: #5 stpaulbear

I wonder if there’s any bottom limit to how much worse this convention can get?

Do you remember the election in Lord of the Flies?

Barefoot Grin Mar 25, 2016 • 8:52:10pm

re: #32 nines09

Here. This is Ronnie Wood. Tune your guitar to open E. Get a slide you like. This is a song that can do it for you. You just may get it. No fingering. Just 2 string, 3 string 4 string slide. Bass to treble. Tune in and you can get it. They just pan back and forth on the sound. Hit your open lower E string. Then with that ringing go up to the upper E (12th) on the 3 high strings. Hear it? It’s a great song to just wail away on. Here. Enjoy. [Embedded content]

Larger

That’s awesome. But how do they get the e7 sound on an open eMajor?

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 8:53:09pm

A thing to know about Daesh is they see the BM-21 ‘Grad’ rocket as primarily an artillery weapon and only secondarily as a terror weapon. As witness their use of the rockets against Iraqi forces moving on Mosul.

Well, two can play that game:

US Soldiers loading shells to pick off IS rocket launchpads at their Fire Base around Makmour. pic.twitter.com/HyBIlACbsv

— Beyond The Levant (@TheRealBTL) March 24, 2016

stpaulbear Mar 25, 2016 • 8:53:19pm

Charles, thanks for the ‘refresh comment’ button. I just noticed it for the first time. I edit my comments so often - I appreciate the chance to refresh.

edit: Ahhh. I feel wefweshed.

Youtube Video

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 8:54:36pm

Damn it…
Now I have a craving for M&Ms

FormerDirtDart Mar 25, 2016 • 9:06:03pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

A thing to know about Daesh is they see the BM-21 ‘Grad’ rocket as primarily an artillery weapon and only secondarily as a terror weapon. As witness their use of the rockets against Iraqi forces moving on Mosul.

Well, two can play that game:

[Embedded content]

playing the game with counter battery radar and precision guided projectiles gives one a distinct advantage

nines09 Mar 25, 2016 • 9:08:06pm

re: #35 Barefoot Grin

I don’t know. Magic. Sometimes your ears will play tricks on you. Trust me. All I hear is E G A D B all up and down and in between. Have fun. Go watch Richie Havens and stroke out. //
Night all. Havens

GlutenFreeJesus Mar 25, 2016 • 9:11:39pm

B.B. King - The Thrill Is Gone Live From Crossroads Festival 2010

calochortus Mar 25, 2016 • 9:18:04pm

Good night, Lizards. Hasta mañana.

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 9:30:28pm

re: #39 FormerDirtDart

playing the game with counter battery radar and precision guided projectiles gives one a distinct advantage

That’s part of the fun: The deck is stacked in our favor. Using the USMC (for the Americans at that firebase are Marines) to man the artillery and provide a secure base for Iraqi forces places our Marines at some risk, and has cost one of them his life. But its likely to shorten the war and it serves as a real performance enhancer for our Iraqi allies.

Some in the media have aimed scorn at this venture, but they just don’t get it: Having Americans work only out of very large, very secure bases is what we did in Iraq from 2004-2006. The troops called it ‘commuting to work’ and it was not a success. As we saw during the 2007-2008 surge, we get our best results by placing our soldiers in forward bases with the Iraqis, so that we can better train, direct and support them.

Thus I endorse this initiative by SecDef Carter as it is based on proven tactics that we’ve seen succeed in Iraq in the past.

Pawn of the Oppressor Mar 25, 2016 • 9:31:29pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

A thing to know about Daesh is they see the BM-21 ‘Grad’ rocket as primarily an artillery weapon and only secondarily as a terror weapon. As witness their use of the rockets against Iraqi forces moving on Mosul.

Well, two can play that game:

[Embedded content]

This is good for feel-good cool points, but in general I’m sickened by the amount of information that gets puked into the media about our troops over there and what they’re doing. It’s always been a problem, but yesterday I stumbled across an article detailing the size, location, number of Marines, and strategic purpose of that fire base out near ISIS territory and I wanted to reach through the internet and strangle the author. I wish they’d keep things quiet. “Thanks, media, hey do you think you could post the turn-by-turn directions and detail their security measures too? Signed, The Terrorists”

When the head-choppers have all been turned into greasy stains in the sand, we can talk about tactical stuff all day long, but not before.

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 9:33:05pm

For those snow sports adventurers who need to bring Fluffy along.

Facebook Post

Pawn of the Oppressor Mar 25, 2016 • 9:34:03pm

re: #20 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Niiiiice. They didn’t play old stuff when I saw them (Bridges to Babylon tour in Foxboro, MA). I was a teenager and I was there with my MOM! LOL. I didn’t understand how tours worked, that usually it’s about the new album. I really wanted to hear Paint It Black in person and was disappointed. Good on them for playing Cuba right.

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 9:37:25pm

re: #13 Alyosha

I hear the bird is Bernie’s mistress!

— Andy Richter (@AndyRichter) March 26, 2016

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 9:46:35pm

re: #44 Pawn of the Oppressor

The base was disclosed before the Pentagon wanted to be because Daesh got lucky with that BM-21 barrage (though that luck was a case of chance favoring the prepared mind) and killed a Marine. Then facts started to leak and the reporters who learned those facts had not been given a proper OPSEC* briefing.

The purpose of the base is something the public should know, though, since it is a good step forward in the fight against Daesh. but I agree with you 100% about the rest. DAESH had been scouting our positions, but the media shouldn’t make it easy for then.

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 9:48:57pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon

* OPSEC = OPerational SECurity

Alyosha Mar 25, 2016 • 9:52:30pm

re: #47 teleskiguy

I know I might have come off as kinda petty in my above comments; the bird thing was pretty damn adorable. But the flatout mysticism is a wee bit weird.

It is 2016 and I have people on my timeline honestly believing a bird means MOTHER NATURE has endorsed Bernie Sanders.

You get Trump.

— Tyler Thurston (@reedthurston) March 26, 2016

Plus the expectation that Clinton will want in on the beastmaster caper…

Hillary’s next speech be like #BirdieSanders pic.twitter.com/wS3TqosXZ2

— BILL_NYE_THO (@Bill_Nye_Tho__) March 26, 2016

I have to remind myself that it’s mostly in good fun, but when the campaign looks to be headed for a loss, I guess you must become a diviner of auguries.

Dark_Falcon Mar 25, 2016 • 9:56:16pm

re: #50 Alyosha

I hope not, because that sort of escalation will end up with Donald Trump bringing a bull elephant to one of his rallies. Hey, its huuge, with a penis to match!

/I kid, but if he got in on this that is the sort of thing he would do.

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Mar 25, 2016 • 9:58:12pm

The Stones and the Castros: Comparing their ages

Fidelito 89
Raul 84
Charlie 74
Mick 72
Keith 72
Ronnie 68

Ronnie Wood’s the baby. I guess he has to fetch drinks for everyone.//

Alyosha Mar 25, 2016 • 9:58:39pm

re: #51 Dark_Falcon

Since the bald eagle attack, I think he might be critter-wary.
Plus, his son is a bit of an elephant-butcher and the cosmos does sometimes have a wicked sense of justice.

SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN Mar 25, 2016 • 10:03:21pm

Rush still calls Neal Peart “the new guy”.

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:04:02pm

I heard the song “Anyhow” by TTB on a local radio station (third song in this video) the day their new album came out. Bought the album when I got home. Such great music. I spun Let Me Get By over and over for a while there. Highly recommended.

Great White Snark Mar 25, 2016 • 10:04:56pm

When a medium/large bird shits on Trumps hair on camera I will swear allegiance to almighty Gaia. However until then Bernie needs delegates more than real world tweets.

SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN Mar 25, 2016 • 10:06:25pm

BTW on one of the videos earlier today I finally came across an ad the I didn’t skip: “The Squatty Potty”. It was hilarious and frankly ingenious. I don’t mean to pimp any products, but here ya go:
This Unicorn Changed the Way I Poop - #SquattyPotty

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:16:54pm

Bill Maher did a good final New Rule tonight. I chortled.

I almost feel bad for Republicans, although not really ‘cause they did it to themselves. Jesus, you guys started out with 17 candidates and somehow you wound up with Mussolini and Joe McCarthy.

Cruz would be our worst President. But Trump might well be our last. #BetterTedThanDead https://t.co/3wi1M8LftT

— Bill Maher (@billmaher) March 26, 2016

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:20:42pm

My favorite touring rock ‘n’ roll circus, Umphrey’s McGee. Here’s the drummer and one of the guitarists messing around backstage tonight in Oakland before a gig.

Facebook Post

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:21:28pm

re: #59 teleskiguy

darthstar, did you go to this show? If not, why not, dude?!?

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:25:39pm

Facebook Post

Yeah, voted yea by Democrats, nay by Republicans. GUBMINT BAAAD!

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:34:51pm

Let it be know that on this day, the 25th day of March 2016 that teleskiguy is known as teleskiguy, Killer of Threads.

I dub thine…

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Mar 25, 2016 • 10:35:38pm

re: #61 teleskiguy

We don’t need the government telling us how not to put ourselves and other people in mortal danger. Now hold my beer, and watch this!

teleskiguy Mar 25, 2016 • 10:39:40pm

re: #63 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

My State Senator sent out a nice tweet this morning.

.@ColoSenGOP Cropping article misrepresents @RepDMB quote & work https://t.co/rPXeHIcWHX https://t.co/9M0nhIQqZu pic.twitter.com/ijy80CnyfI

— Kerry Donovan (@KerryDonovanSD5) March 25, 2016

Diane Mitsch Bush is my State Representative as well, and she wrote the dang law!

I love it how I’m represented in the Colorado legislature by women. :)

Sophist, Premature Anti-Trumpist Mar 25, 2016 • 11:06:54pm

re: #51 Dark_Falcon

I hope not, because that sort of escalation will end up with Donald Trump bringing a bull elephant to one of his rallies.

That would be perfect! His son could ritually slaughter it onstage for a bit of gory but spot-on symbolism.

Single-handed sailor Mar 26, 2016 • 12:01:32am

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 12:29:10am

This one goes out to the Cuban in #cubanmistresscrisis :

MP3 Audio

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 2:53:40am

And this one goes out to the Mistress(es) in #cubanmistresscrisis , “Tango Apocalypse”:

MP3 Audio

Bubblehead II Mar 26, 2016 • 2:54:09am

Bill that allows concealed carry without a permit passes

With Gov. Otter’s signature, the law now allows Idahoans over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon without a permit while in city limits.

I feel safer already. ///////

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 2:55:14am

re: #68 freetoken

A quite fitting tune, if I say so myself….

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 3:34:11am

Milo flirting with his neo-Nazi base.

Thank you x https://t.co/vSipYEB8ak

— Milo Yiannopoulos ✘ (@Nero) March 26, 2016

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 3:36:57am

NEW: I just launched the best podcast ever, you guys! https://t.co/igu8rF3vLr

My first guest next week will be… @AnnCoulter

— Milo Yiannopoulos ✘ (@Nero) March 25, 2016

Dr Lizardo Mar 26, 2016 • 4:30:28am

So, the Cuban Mistress Crisis is still going. Heh.

Yeesh……can anyone here even imagine Ted’s “pillow talk”? I’mma thinking it’d be a lot like this:

[shudders]

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 4:31:52am

re: #73 Dr Lizardo

So, the Cuban Mistress Crisis is still going. Heh.

Yeesh……can anyone here even imagine Ted’s “pillow talk”? I’mma thinking it’d be a lot like this:

Embedded Image

[shudders]

note the secret star-and-crescent symbols in the background…

Dr Lizardo Mar 26, 2016 • 4:34:54am

BBL. Off to the store.

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Mar 26, 2016 • 4:38:54am

re: #72 Nyet

It’ll be the greatest among RWNJs, probably.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 4:39:25am

Some Berniebots are now bringing up Kaddafi’s death to bash Hillary. I’d say unbelievable except it is.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 4:46:12am

“Look at the Middle East, all those revolutions ended up badly and Hillary is to blame. So vote for Bernie because we need a revolution!”

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 4:49:24am

Watching 11.22.63, I’m reminded of why I didn’t really appreciate the novel to begin with (and why I don’t read S. King novels.)

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 4:50:39am

re: #79 freetoken

Is it watchable?

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 4:52:03am

re: #80 Nyet

Is it watchable?

I guess. But the fatal flaw is so common - the main character is so out of character.

freetoken Mar 26, 2016 • 4:53:28am

Lyin’ Ted:

Ted Cruz’s false claim the San Bernardino shooter ‘posted publicly on social media a call to jihad’

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 4:58:57am

OK, Denise Oliver Velez wrote a nice diary about the idiotic Berniac “Trump will cause a revolution” meme, but she just had to go and spoil it in the comments by defending the unrepentant murderer Mumia Abu Jamal.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 4:59:36am

The Mumia defenders are disgusting, or ignorant, or both.

Bill and Opus for 2016! Mar 26, 2016 • 5:09:44am

I think some of Trump’s neo-Nazi friends are about to learn firsthand that breaking into computers to perform acts of vandalism violates at least two federal laws (because state lines were very obviously crossed) - not to mention a whole lot of state and local statutes.

BREAKING: After Hack by Neo-Nazi Group, Anti-Semitic Fliers Appear on Campus Printers

Students at various colleges nationwide were stunned and upset Friday to find anti-Semitic fliers (below) on campus printers. Many students initially assumed that someone in their library or residence hall had printed the flier. But as the day went on, more campuses reported the same flier on their printers. The flier — including two swastikas — accuses Jews of “destroying your country through mass immigration and degeneracy.” A neo-Nazi group that runs the website called The Daily Stormer (named in the flier) took credit for hacking the various printers, and expressed pleasure in the distress of students who found the fliers.

Enjoy your visit from the FBI.

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 5:21:37am

So, this is the state of politics in the US. One party is busy comparing dick size and attacking wives while rumors of sex scandals aren’t going away.

The other? OMG - a bird landed on the podium! It’s a sign!

OFFS.

There are so many things that are right with the country that we’re about to consider a president based on dick size or who had the birdie.

The GOP is going to use that swagger to roll back all kinds of safety net protections that far too many people take for granted, so as to shift burdens from the rich on to everyone else with massive tax cuts. The Democrats are looking at a candidate whose single solitary note is Wall Street, and even then, had to distance himself from his criticism of Ex-Im bank when talking in Washington State because so many people benefit from that program due to working for Boeing, knowing someone who does, or working in a business that benefits from Boeing being able to sell its planes to customers who rely on Ex-Im.

Meanwhile, the candidate with the most actual experience of doing stuff is hounded by BS “scandals” that don’t hold up to scrutiny, but everyone (GOP and Bernie-bros) think that it’s just days before indictments are handed down against Hillary.

There are real problems - real inequities - that the GOP are exacerbating - whether it’s access to reproductive health, abortion access, LBGT rights, or opposing the minimum wage.

The GOP also stands opposed to investing in the nation where it actually matters - upgrading infrastructure, water, power, mass transit, and we see the strains of this all over the nation. Water supplies are laden with lead and other contaminants, and somehow we don’t have the money to pay for taking all the lead out of pipes once and for all (that is when MI GOP decided not to outright poison Flint with their baseless and heartless and criminal decision to switch Flint from a safe water supply to a dangerous one - and it was dangerous when they refused to not only pay for proper water treatment, but ignored that it would have been impossible to properly treat the water in the first place - which is why the water should never have switched in first place to say nothing of fact that it was cheaper to stay on Detroit water than make switch).

We have crumbling mass transit infrastructure and the lack of will to pay for it. In NJ, Christie is more concerned with pushing estate tax cuts than paying for a new bus terminal or bringing rail up to a state of good repair. NY has a governor more interested in building roads than making sure that mass transit is in a state of good repair.

It’s the same problems across the nation. Priorities are all screwed up, and the GOP thinks that tax cuts are the solution to everything, even though 40+ years of tax cuts have not resulted in anything but the rich accumulating more and more while everyone else is spinning their gears to stay in place. And where the GOP isn’t cutting taxes, they’re pushing to cut safety net programs to “save” money.

We have to address long term strategic needs, like adjusting growth and development to take into account climate change, but the GOP almost uniformly ignores the science. Droughts, floods, and other climate disasters are likely to get worse, and the GOP ignores that we should do anything.

Rather, the GOP fights to prevent people from having the right to vote with Voter ID requirements that don’t actually stop voter fraud, but prevent eligible people from voting.

On and on it goes. But hey, nice birdie.

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 5:32:16am

Time to go shopping for enchilada and pulled pork fixins. Been fasting like a good catholic for six weeks and and am looking forward to the pleasures of the flesh: beef, pork and chicken.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 5:34:14am

re: #87 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Time to go shopping for enchilada and pulled pork fixins. Been fasting like a good catholic for six weeks and and am looking forward to the pleasures of the flesh: beef, pork and chicken.

Beeporcken.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 5:35:05am

Or, as Germans say, Rindschweinhähnchen./

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 5:45:22am

OK, that’s total bullshit. Bernie has become an embarrassment. Go away, old man.

Sanders campaign compares Clinton fundraising to Oceans 11 heist pic.twitter.com/Oa8KRV43oU

— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) March 25, 2016

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 5:47:15am

re: #89 Nyet

Or, as Germans say, Rindschweinhähnchen./

Trutenthaenchen

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 5:48:05am

re: #91 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Trutenthaenchen

Turd-Ucken.

Smith25's Liberal Thighs Mar 26, 2016 • 5:55:56am

re: #90 Nyet

OK, that’s total bullshit. Bernie has become an embarrassment. Go away, old man.

[Embedded content]

Yep. So much of this money is going to the State Party Victory Fund. Clinton is helping the down-ballot Dems, especially in Red states like where I live. But apparently we don’t matter as much to the Berniacs.

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 5:57:45am

Reminds me of Big Bang Theory episode:

North Carolina man arrested after failing to return 2002 video rental

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 5:58:41am

re: #93 Smith25’s Liberal Thighs

This is the part that Bernie bros don’t get or don’t care about. Nothing about Bernie’s agenda has a chance of success without turning Congress blue. If he’s not raising funds for down-ballot races, then he’s sabotaging his own efforts.

That Hillary is raising funds opens a bunch of doors - one it shows support to down-ballot candidates. It helps with superdelegates, and it shows leadership. Hillary understands that she needs to help turn Congress blue to get her own agenda through, and to protect the safety net that the GOP readily seeks to dismantle.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 5:59:37am

I’m feeling about Bernie what I felt about Hillary in 2008.

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 6:12:53am

And yeah, Bernie is still almost an angel when compared to any taint goblin™ on the GOP slate.

Dave In Austin Mar 26, 2016 • 6:16:28am

The fucking bird was thirsty……!

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 6:17:44am

>#97 Nyet

And yeah, Bernie is still almost an angel when compared to any taint goblin™ on the GOP slate.

Have to maintain enough affection for Bernie that I can work and donate for him to painful levels, should he somehow get nominated. It’s time for him to demonstrate enough solidarity to save his anti-fascist soul.

100

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 6:20:04am

Campaign contributions is a kind of collectivism, no?

101

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 6:22:44am

re: #100 Alyosha

Campaign contributions is a kind of collectivism, no?

Agnostic tithing.

102

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 6:36:17am

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Agnostic tithing.

I suppose it’s difficult to argue to some in the Sanders crowd that Clinton isn’t just another megachurch heh.

103

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 6:43:11am

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Agnostic tithing.

Not if you’re doing it to gain influence, which is what contributions of that size are intended to do. Sanders is tapping into the well of “anti-fat cat” resentment in the country., a well also tapped by, ironically, Donald Trump.

104

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 6:48:56am

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Not if you’re doing it to gain influence, which is what contributions of that size are intended to do. Sanders is tapping into the well of “anti-fat cat” resentment in the country., a well also tapped by, ironically, Donald Trump.

Sure, it’s going to buy ads and influence people. It’s basically evangelism. Only, for one party at least, the endgoal is socially constructive. Just what you’d expect in a charity.

105

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 6:58:09am

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Not if you’re doing it to gain influence, which is what contributions of that size are intended to do. Sanders is tapping into the well of “anti-fat cat” resentment in the country., a well also tapped by, ironically, Donald Trump.

And what “influence” do you think George Clooney, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg are looking for? What special favors or policy initiatives do they think they’ll get from a Clinton white house?

Then, explain why it doesn’t bother you that Republicans hold similar-priced fundraisers chaired by oil companies and defense contractors.

106

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:00:10am

re: #104 Alyosha

Sure, it’s going to buy ads and influence people. It’s basically evangelism. Only, for one party at least, the endgoal is socially constructive. Just what you’d expect in a charity.

In your opinion, not mine. I see those donors as feeding the crocodile in the hopes she’ll make them one of those eaten later.

107

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:01:39am

re: #105 sagehen

And what “influence” do you think George Clooney, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg are looking for? What special favors or policy initiatives do they think they’ll get from a Clinton white house?

Then, explain why it doesn’t bother you that Republicans hold similar-priced fundraisers chaired by oil companies and defense contractors.

It doesn’t ‘bother’ me, but I’m only going to mock it or grouse about it when the Democrats do it. I’m partisan in such matters and I make no pretense of being fair on this point.

108

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:02:22am

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

In your opinion, not mine. I see those donors as feeding the crocodile in the hopes she’ll make them one of those eaten later.

What are you talking about? Eaten how?
This isn’t the GOP we’re talking about.

109

makeitstop Mar 26, 2016 • 7:03:20am

Not this shit again…

110

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:06:31am

Hillary: ‘And now I’ve come for you. You served me well enough. Those gullible women!’ *cackles madly*
PP-‘NOOOOOOOOO!’

Something like that?

111

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:06:41am

re: #108 Alyosha

What are you talking about? Eaten how?
This isn’t the GOP we’re talking about.

It’s not meant literally. It means those who contribute to Hillary are seeking to keep from being hit too hard by tax hikes and other schemes to raise revenue.

112

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:07:29am

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

In your opinion, not mine. I see those donors as feeding the crocodile in the hopes she’ll make them one of those eaten later.

You are ready to vote for a theofascist against a person who actually cares about human rights. Your opinion on this matter couldn’t be less relevant in this context.

113

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:10:35am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

It’s not meant literally. It means those who contribute to Hillary are seeking to keep from being hit too hard by tax hikes and other schemes to raise revenue.

The Republican Fear is taxes.
The Democratic Fear is authoritarianism.

114

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 7:10:36am

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

Not if you’re doing it to gain influence, which is what contributions of that size are intended to do. Sanders is tapping into the well of “anti-fat cat” resentment in the country., a well also tapped by, ironically, Donald Trump.

Why do the faithful tithe, if not to gain cosmic influence?

115

Big Beautiful Door Mar 26, 2016 • 7:13:36am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

It doesn’t ‘bother’ me, but I’m only going to mock it or grouse about it when the Democrats do it. I’m partisan in such matters and I make no pretense of being fair on this point.

upding for honesty.

116

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:13:57am

re: #113 Alyosha

The Republican Fear is taxes.
The Democratic Fear is authoritarianism.

No, the Democratic Fear is Less Dependence On Government

117

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 7:14:29am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

It’s not meant literally. It means those who contribute to Hillary are seeking to keep from being hit too hard by tax hikes and other schemes to raise revenue.

Bullshit

118

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:15:29am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

No, the Democratic Fear is Less Dependence On Government

That’s a Luntz focus-group type explanation for the existence of liberals.

119

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 7:16:05am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

No, the Democratic Fear is Less Dependence On Government

Another bullshit comment. I’ll even down ding that one I find it offensive since I’m on disability,

120

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 7:17:23am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

It doesn’t ‘bother’ me, but I’m only going to mock it or grouse about it when the Democrats do it. I’m partisan in such matters and I make no pretense of being fair on this point.

I don’t know whether to upding you for honesty, or downding you for a jerky view on the question.

121

Big Beautiful Door Mar 26, 2016 • 7:17:25am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

No, the Democratic Fear is Less Dependence On Government

No.

122

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Mar 26, 2016 • 7:17:56am

Arguing with obstinate people wastes time and energy.

123

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:18:28am

I guess this is a fundamental misunderstanding between what the government prevents (conservative thought) and what the government facilitates .
Two very different forms of government dependence.

124

Barefoot Grin Mar 26, 2016 • 7:20:28am

re: #122 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Arguing with obstinate people wastes time and energy.

No it doesn’t!

125

Dr. Matt Mar 26, 2016 • 7:20:58am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

No, the Democratic Fear is Less Dependence On Government

Bullshit and fuck you. As a lifetime Democratic voter, the only time I have ever “depended” on anything from the government was my paycheck when I wore the uniform of a sailor in the United States Navy. Again, bullshit and fuck you and your asshole talking point.

126

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 7:22:07am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

It’s not meant literally. It means those who contribute to Hillary are seeking to keep from being hit too hard by tax hikes and other schemes to raise revenue.

Is environmental protection a scheme to raise revenue? How about protecting women’s bodily autonomy, or gay people’s civil rights, or black people’s voting rights, or religious liberty for people other than evangelical christians?

127

jaunte Mar 26, 2016 • 7:24:11am

re: #126 sagehen

How about protecting women’s bodily autonomy, or gay people’s civil rights, or black people’s voting rights, or religious liberty for people other than evangelical christians?

Republicans are dependent on government to keep those people down.

128

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:24:42am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

It doesn’t ‘bother’ me, but I’m only going to mock it or grouse about it when the Democrats do it.

How very non-sociopathic of you./

129

I Would Prefer Not To Mar 26, 2016 • 7:25:06am

Hey Dark, can you name a country that you would live in that has LESS govt than the USA?

130

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:25:20am

re: #127 jaunte

Republicans are dependent on government to keep those people down.

And obstruction is fucking expensive.

131

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 7:25:26am

re: #126 sagehen

Is environmental protection a scheme to raise revenue? How about protecting women’s bodily autonomy, or gay people’s civil rights, or black people’s voting rights, or religious liberty for people other than evangelical christians?

other than evangelical christians?

You left out “Other then what Republicans value.” they only care about themselves.

132

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:25:49am

re: #129 I Would Prefer Not To

Hey Dark, can you name a country that you would live in that has LESS govt than the USA?

Somalia?

133

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 7:26:03am

In Socialist America, government is depending on you.

134

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:26:48am

re: #123 Alyosha

I guess this is a fundamental misunderstanding between what the government prevents (conservative thought) and what the government facilitates .
Two very different forms of government dependence.

It’s not a ‘misunderstanding’, not on either side of the line. It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals. In most situations liberals and conservatives have very different views of the proper role of government. And while that sometimes can be the result of misunderstandings, far more often its not that the two sides misunderstand each other so much that they each think the other is wrong.

And that’s why we can’t “all come together”: People don’t unify with those with who they have major (often fundamental) disagreement except in order to combat a major external threat. And that’s not evil, its simply politics. Just because I think you’re wrong doesn’t mean I hate you. It is the error of fanatics to make personal things that aren’t personal.

135

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:28:24am

See Dark, this is why it’s getting harder and harder to take your words seriously whenever you join in on blasting racism etc. Your right and left hands do the opposite things.

136

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:30:54am

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals.

You don’t seem to be ready to acknowledge what your fundamental principles[sic] lead to.

137

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:31:11am

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

It’s not a ‘misunderstanding’, not on either side of the line. It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals. In most situations liberals and conservatives have very different views of the proper role of government. And while that sometimes can be the result of misunderstandings, far more often its not that the two sides misunderstand each other so much that they each think the other is wrong.

And that’s why we can’t “all come together”: People don’t unify with those with who they have major (often fundamental) disagreement except in order to combat a major external threat. And that’s not evil, its simply politics. Just because i think you’re wrong doesn’t mean I hate you. It is the error of fanatics to make personal things that aren’t personal.

That might not be the case with you personally, but tell me with a straight face that the exclusionary nature of Republican policy isn’t hateful.

138

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 7:33:56am

re: #135 Nyet

See Dark, this is why it’s getting harder and harder to take your words seriously whenever you join in on blasting racism etc. Your right and left hands do the opposite things.

Get used to it. I’m a contradiction with legs and have been for a long time.

139

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:34:28am

There are people whose first principles include strict non-miscegenation and race supremacy. And?

140

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:35:09am

Can an LGBT person ‘come together’ with a person fundamentally opposed to their very existence and identity?

Which of these two people is responsible for the unbreachable rift?

141

Romantic Heretic Mar 26, 2016 • 7:35:15am

re: #3 gocart mozart

It also calls Cleveland one of the most dangerous cities in the United States, citing an October 2015 Forbes article.

A perfect example of the hermetic environment that the US right wing lives in. Fox cites Forbes who will probably tomorrow cite this Fox article.

Furthermore if Cleveland is not one of the most dangerous cities in America it will be when the GOP is in town. I’m betting FEMA has a plan in place for dealing with the aftermath.

142

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Mar 26, 2016 • 7:37:27am

I interrupt this political argument with some news of the Rolling Stones in Cuba.

It was a sell-out crowd.

Link includes short video. bbc.com

143

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:43:51am

re: #142 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Nice. Cuba seems to be in its Gorbachev phase. I hope they don’t repeat Russia’s mistakes once it goes towards capitalism.

144

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 7:47:47am

re: #105 sagehen

And what “influence” do you think George Clooney, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg are looking for? What special favors or policy initiatives do they think they’ll get from a Clinton white house?

Then, explain why it doesn’t bother you that Republicans hold similar-priced fundraisers chaired by oil companies and defense contractors.

Not to mention big Hollywood republicans like Bruckheimer, Sinese and others. This is another nothing burger, bitching just to bitch.

145

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:49:00am

re: #144 MsJ

Not to mention big Hollywood republicans like Bruckheimer, Sinese and others. This is another nothing burger, bitching just to bitch.

They should channel their anger into pyrotechnics like Michael Bay has.

146

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 7:49:15am

re: #143 Nyet

Nice. Cuba seems to be in its Gorbachev phase. I hope they don’t repeat Russia’s mistakes once it goes towards capitalism.

They have learned from their Communist overlords that a capitalist is a predatory beast who scoops up as much profit as he can before abandoning the market in a shambles.

And they have a glowing example of that just to the north…

147

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:50:25am

This Feel the Bird thing is amazingly cheesy.

148

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 7:50:34am

re: #108 Alyosha

What are you talking about? Eaten how?
This isn’t the GOP we’re talking about.

It’s ingrained in him. GOP, good. Democrat, bad. It’s pointless to try to reason. He’s so brainwashed he refuses to see what the entirety of the GOP has become. You’re pissing into the wind.

149

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 7:53:14am

BernieBots are worse than Peter Griffin./

150

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 7:56:36am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

It’s not meant literally. It means those who contribute to Hillary are seeking to keep from being hit too hard by tax hikes and other schemes to raise revenue.

So you think individuals will be exempt from paying taxes?

That’s not how it works. But I think you know that. So you’re just looking to bitch about nothing except rah rah GOP.

151

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 7:59:37am

re: #148 MsJ

It’s mostly Socratic drilling. DF is such an interesting character. Part of me can’t stand the tribalism but, in a way, he’s a lightning rod. And I’d miss him if he left. He acts the strawman. Rhetorical candy.

152

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 7:59:44am

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

It’s not a ‘misunderstanding’, not on either side of the line. It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals. In most situations liberals and conservatives have very different views of the proper role of government. And while that sometimes can be the result of misunderstandings, far more often its not that the two sides misunderstand each other so much that they each think the other is wrong.

And that’s why we can’t “all come together”: People don’t unify with those with who they have major (often fundamental) disagreement except in order to combat a major external threat. And that’s not evil, its simply politics. Just because I think you’re wrong doesn’t mean I hate you. It is the error of fanatics to make personal things that aren’t personal.

Yes, the proper role of “small” government is to take rights away from certain undesirable people like women, gays, minorities and those of unacceptable religions.

Got it.

153

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:03:14am

re: #147 Nyet

Even a secular campaign in extremis will look to the entrails.

154

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:03:29am

re: #151 Alyosha

It’s mostly Socratic drilling. DF is such an interesting character. Part of me can’t stand the tribalism but, in a way, he’s a lightning rod. And I’d miss him if he left. He acts the strawman. Rhetorical candy.

I personally find it droll and boring. It’s all complete bullshit; talking points and lies.

I have no problem with policy differences. It’s outright lies and horseshit that makes me really dislike him. Because that’s all he throws out. Outright lies that he takes as gospel.

155

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:06:36am

My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that’s because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism.

~ attr. to Coulter (though I’ve never been able to authenticate it).

156

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:08:23am

re: #154 MsJ

I personally find it droll and boring. It’s all complete bullshit; talking points and lies.

I have no problem with policy differences. It’s outright lies and horseshit that makes me really dislike him. Because that’s all he throws out. Outright lies that he takes as gospel.

It’s also possible that I’m more tolerant of his behavior because his vote doesn’t affect me as it would you.
It doesn’t mean I don’t revile his comments at times and that’s why I don’t judge others for criticising him more pointedly.

157

BeenHereAwhile Mar 26, 2016 • 8:10:21am

re: #151 Alyosha

It’s mostly Socratic drilling. DF is such an interesting character. Part of me can’t stand the tribalism but, in a way, he’s a lightning rod. And I’d miss him if he left. He acts the strawman. Rhetorical candy.

If a “DF” wasn’t around, we’d have to invent one.

158

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:12:28am

re: #157 BeenHereAwhile

If a “DF” wasn’t around, we’d have to invent one.

The downding button will get dusty otherwise.

159

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:14:18am

re: #158 Alyosha

You haven’t been here during the Buck era. (Tho maybe you’ve been lurking.)

160

Backwoods_Sleuth Mar 26, 2016 • 8:15:21am

re: #159 Nyet

You haven’t been here during the Buck era. (Tho maybe you’ve been lurking.)

Do not say his name three times….

161

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:17:39am

re: #156 Alyosha

It’s also possible that I’m more tolerant of his behavior because his vote doesn’t affect me as it would you.
It doesn’t mean I don’t revile his comments at times and that’s why I don’t judge others for criticising him more pointedly.

It affects me partially these days. I married a Canadian so I get that dreaded free healthcare. I could get the worst form of cancer, or what have you, be treated, and not have to file bankruptcy. It wouldn’t cast me one red cent. But my fellow Americans, of which I still am, don’t have that luxury.

Personally, I’ll be affected by the GOP gutting Social Security, their psychopathic wet dream. But even that’s not just me. It affects millions of my fellow Americans.

And that’s the dem v repub difference. What they see as government dependence, I see as a social pact as a society.

Republicans are anti-social psychopaths. They should have their own classification in the DSM. They disgust me.

162

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:18:19am

re: #160 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do not say his name three times….

… and don’t feed him after midnight. Or before.

163

Backwoods_Sleuth Mar 26, 2016 • 8:19:53am

.@BernieSanders lands YUGE #HouseFinch Endorsement.

In other News: Hillary bribes Big Bird.#BirdieSanders pic.twitter.com/x7xDMz03U5

— ♞ Ðaηi ♀ εℓa ツ™ (@SomeBlueDevilFL) March 26, 2016

164

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:20:37am

re: #159 Nyet

You haven’t been here during the Buck era. (Tho maybe you’ve been lurking.)

Naw, I must’ve missed that.

165

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 8:23:21am

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Get used to it. I’m a contradiction with legs and have been for a long time.

” I am willfully unwilling to examine any of the beliefs that I hold. Get used to it”

166

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:23:56am

Worst resident troll I saw was KT, and by all accounts he was mild.

167

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:26:03am

re: #166 Alyosha

Worst resident troll I saw was KT, and by all accounts he was mild.

You’re late to this show. KT pales in comparison to some chthonic monsters of yore ;)

168

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:26:06am

re: #166 Alyosha

Worst resident troll I saw was KT, and by all accounts he was mild.

There was an incident that drove KT. He wasn’t always like that.

169

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:26:58am

re: #168 MsJ

Yes, he was preoccupied. ;)

170

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:27:33am

re: #167 Nyet

You’re late to this show. KT pales in comparison to some chthonic monsters of yore ;)

I missed out :(
Somebody throw something!

171

plansbandc Mar 26, 2016 • 8:28:31am

TT used to come here every summer to do a charity show for a homeless teen shelter. We always went. They are, in my opinion the best live band right now.

172

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 8:29:58am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

It doesn’t ‘bother’ me, but I’m only going to mock it or grouse about it when the Democrats do it. I’m partisan in such matters and I make no pretense of being fair on this point.

Oh brother. Admitting you can’t be fair. Lovely.

173

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 8:31:46am

Dark Falcon #116.

It’s Saturday!

174

Stanley Sea Mar 26, 2016 • 8:35:21am

For anyone who missed these. Worth the repost for the absolute ridiculousness

@CassandraRules @cook_robert_l @politico Totally! #BirdieSanders pic.twitter.com/sMyQnKazl9

— Spoonie for Bernie (@sharonhough) March 25, 2016

He may not be the Disney princess we deserve, but he is the Disney princess we need. #BirdieSanders pic.twitter.com/o8fQhQGGx1

— RedYellowOranj (@RedYellowOranj) March 25, 2016

175

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 8:36:08am

re: #166 Alyosha

Worst resident troll I saw was KT, and by all accounts he was mild.

KT was Little Mary Sunshine.

176

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:36:19am

re: #174 Stanley Sea

But if it were a seagull…

177

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 8:36:45am

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

It’s not a ‘misunderstanding’, not on either side of the line. It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals. In most situations liberals and conservatives have very different views of the proper role of government. And while that sometimes can be the result of misunderstandings, far more often its not that the two sides misunderstand each other so much that they each think the other is wrong.

And that’s why we can’t “all come together”: People don’t unify with those with who they have major (often fundamental) disagreement except in order to combat a major external threat. And that’s not evil, its simply politics. Just because I think you’re wrong doesn’t mean I hate you. It is the error of fanatics to make personal things that aren’t personal.

You do nothing to disprove you are not a fanatic. In fact quite the opposite.

Do you ever read what you post, or does that crap just flow out without any connection to the human that posts it?

178

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 8:36:55am

re: #174 Stanley Sea

“I drew these pictures and I vote. Eat your heart out, oligarch!”

179

Stanley Sea Mar 26, 2016 • 8:37:55am

re: #176 Alyosha

But if it were a seagull…

Would’ve been dangerous!

180

Alyosha Mar 26, 2016 • 8:39:58am

re: #179 Stanley Sea

We’d be hearing about Hillary’s attack-gull fighting ring.

181

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 8:40:14am

The media is so after me on women Wow, this is a tough business. Nobody has more respect for women than Donald Trump!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 26, 2016

He’s so so goooood with women. You just watch.

182

Timothy Watson Mar 26, 2016 • 8:43:11am

re: #90 Nyet

OK, that’s total bullshit. Bernie has become an embarrassment. Go away, old man.

[Embedded content]

What person, other than raging wingnuts, has a problem with George Clooney?

183

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:43:41am

re: #181 SoundGuy 2016

[Embedded content]

He’s so so goooood with women. You just watch.

For someone who’s been on tv for some time, it’s like he has no concept of recorded material. His own words - in his own voice - are going to be his downfall.

184

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:44:07am

re: #182 Timothy Watson

What person, other than raging wingnuts, has a problem with George Clooney?

Bernie supporters, apparently.

185

Decatur Deb Mar 26, 2016 • 8:45:24am

re: #184 MsJ

Bernie supporters, apparently.

We’re going to find that a lot of Bernie supporters were parachuted behind the lines.

186

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 8:48:27am

re: #185 Decatur Deb

We’re going to find that a lot of Bernie supporters were parachuted behind the lines.

I think DK has their quota of those.

187

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 8:55:28am

re: #181 SoundGuy 2016

[Embedded content]

He’s so so goooood with women. You just watch.

Trump’s respect for women only goes as far as the amount of time they give him what he wants.

188

calochortus Mar 26, 2016 • 8:55:43am

The trouble with an effectively functioning government is that so many of the benefits are invisible. People just don’t notice bad stuff that isn’t there, so they figure the government isn’t doing anything, and why are those people over there getting benefits I don’t?

I live in a safe, clean neighborhood. Some property crime, but not a huge amount. My air and water are cleaner than they were 50 years ago (invisible health benefits.) My streets are swept, my mail gets delivered and my food is safe to eat. Infrastructure could use some maintenance, but the streets are in decent shape, the sewage goes away, the fire department and police are there when I need them. Kids get educated, libraries are available, we have parks and open space, various government agencies provide information when I request it. In an emergency of any sort there is a whole, if imperfect, infrastructure to provide help.
I don’t get food stamps, welfare or help paying for my housing because I don’t need those things. That safety net is there for me if I do need it. It’s insurance.

Yes, there is waste, fraud and abuse. I defy you to find any system without it. Reducing it should always be a goal. Eliminating it entirely is not going to happen and trashing the system because of it would be worse than stupid.

Libertarians and other conservative types need to stop and look at what they get for their taxes before they whine about them.

Rant over.

189

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 8:57:30am

re: #187 ObserverArt

Trump’s respect for women only goes as far as the amount of time they give him what he wants.

And only if they have big tits. He’s said so (perhaps not as inelegantly as I, though).

190

BeachDem Mar 26, 2016 • 9:05:49am

re: #174 Stanley Sea

For anyone who missed these. Worth the repost for the absolute ridiculousness

[Embedded content]

Because it is the first time in the history of man that a bird has even flown inside a building. It’s a sign! A sign, I tell you!!!

191

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:06:57am

re: #190 BeachDem

It was the Holy Spirit!

192

Timothy Watson Mar 26, 2016 • 9:09:00am

re: #188 calochortus

Monty Python - What have the romans ever done for us

Yes, there is waste, fraud and abuse. I defy you to find any system without it. Reducing it should always be a goal. Eliminating it entirely is not going to happen and trashing the system because of it would be worse than stupid.

And we have plenty of people will are more than willing to spend $100 to stop $5 of waste/abuse.

193

Mattand Mar 26, 2016 • 9:09:42am

re: #181 SoundGuy 2016

I understand why these tweets are written they way they are. But it absolutely scares the shit out of me that the my fellow idiot country people have the capability of electing a President who uses sentences like the “The media are so after me on women.”

194

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 9:09:56am

re: #182 Timothy Watson

What person, other than raging wingnuts, has a problem with George Clooney?

A person that in a weird way has boxed himself in from being able to see things for what they really are. Bernie really has defined that phrase about having one hammer and must see everything as a nail. Clooney is a nail.

I wonder if the Bernie brilliance ever gets to the point where he realizes should he actually become president he would have to work with everyone. Will he be so brazen as to turn away those that aren’t as politically pure as he is?

I suggest that would get him no where. In fact, I’d say he’s be isolated, obstructed and ignored way more than any President ever. When you dump on the party that allowed you in to run and admit you needed…you can’t expect they’d be overjoyed to work with you.

I never thought Bernie was this naive, but he sure is changing my thinking.

I guess being so ideological blinds him to the whole concept of representative government and in an uncomfortable way proves he can be seen as an economic dictator. It really has become Bernies way or no way. That just does not work.

195

calochortus Mar 26, 2016 • 9:11:26am

re: #192 Timothy Watson

[Embedded content]

And we have plenty of people will are more than willing to spend $100 to stop $5 of waste/abuse.

The human mind is a wondrous thing. Just not well adapted to the 21st century in many ways…

196

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:14:02am

Marge: Bart, stop that! [to Homer] Now, we may not have antique
furniture, or priceless artwork, but we have everything we
need, right here.
Homer: That’s right. Just because we’re not rich doesn’t mean
that we don’t have … [start to cry] Oh, I can’t even
finish. I want to be rich! [drops to the floor, as the
scene fades to black. The names of the executive
producers appear] Like these guys!
[the credits for the actors roll]
And look at all these rich people, here! Not as rich as
they should be, of course, but still rich.
[the Gracie Films logo appears, and the woman shushes
someone in the audience]
Don’t shush me, you rich bastard!

197

Mattand Mar 26, 2016 • 9:15:43am

Getting caught up on the current thread.

Spinning off of my previous comment, it also scares the shit out of me that one of the few “moderate” Republicans I interact with many times comes off as an episode of “Fox and Friends” with better sentence structure.

I just cannot wrap my head around supporting a party that is OPENLY ATTRACTING WHITE SUPREMACISTS, and then pretending it’s not a thing.

Jesus Christ, is it too much to fucking ask Americans not to elect a President that doesn’t trigger World War III and destroy every economic gain we’ve made over 7 years?

198

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 9:18:18am

re: #175 Decatur Deb

KT was Little Mary Sunshine.

Till ‘Occupy’ happened and then he went off the deep end.

199

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:19:10am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Till ‘Occupy’ happened and then he went off the deep end.

Not as deep as your party, mind.

200

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 9:20:26am

re: #193 Mattand

I understand why these tweets are written they way they are. But it absolutely scares the shit out of me that the my fellow idiot country people have the capability of electing a President who uses sentences like the “The media are so after me on women.”

Everytime he’s interviewed and someone says “You’re a smart guy….” I always think to myself, really? What proof do you have of that? Or as we like to say: Objection, not in evidence.

Trump has a reputation that is as false as everything about him. He’s not a smart guy. He’s not a great business man. He’s a fake about everything. The only thing that is real is his bad hair…which, to me, is indicative of his entire being. Bad.

201

Mattand Mar 26, 2016 • 9:21:20am

re: #58 teleskiguy

Bill Maher did a good final New Rule tonight. I chortled.

[Embedded content]

And how much time did Maher spend on his “I’m not saying all Muslims are terrorists, BUT…” idiocy?

Between him and Bob & Chez shitting the bed again over this (please show me these out-of-touch lefties who condone bombing airports, you fuckwits), I’m just waiting for all three of them to start endorsing Pam Geller and Robert Spencer.

Because that’s basically the fucking horseshit they are endorsing here.

202

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 9:22:04am

re: #197 Mattand

I don’t see Cruz or Kaisch courting white nationalists, its Trump who does that, and I’ve said and I mean that I won’t vote for him or aid him.

but don’t ask me to support Hillary Clinton. That’s just a bridge too far for me.

203

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:23:52am

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see Cruz or Kaisch courting white nationalists, its Trump who does that, and I’ve said and I mean that I won’t vote for him or aid him.

but don’t ask me to support Hillary Clinton. That’s just a bridge too far for me.

How about sitting out the election?

204

calochortus Mar 26, 2016 • 9:24:04am

BBL
Time for this overprivileged woman to get out and do some yard work. Not too much, because I’m getting too old for some of this stuff. The wear and tear becomes cumulative, even if I space out the heavier work. It does make me reflect on my great grandfather who, in about 1890, was sufficiently poor that he had to go to work in a rock quarry at the age of 58. Not surprisingly he died just a few years later.

I. Can’t. Imagine.

205

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 9:24:50am

Oh, Dark. You scamp. Down dinged my post above, and over what exactly. Can you please explain what irked you so much you felt the need to down ding?

It’s not like I particularly care that you don’t agree with me. I don’t expect people to agree over everything, but what specifically you found so upsetting that you had to down ding?

Was it calling out the GOP over their insufferable BS?
Was it identifying that the GOP has gone so off the rails that the three remaining potential nominees are a sociopath, and two extremists - and you can interchange the terms and still be completely accurate.

The GOP has forsaken any moral high ground about the public good when they continually assault access to health care, reproductive health, women and minority rights, and then cloak their bigotry in the name of “religious freedom” when the reality is that they’re violating the 1A to discriminate.

They attack voting rights and access, all in the name of chasing after a nonexistent threat of fraud. In studies done, out of more than 1 billion votes counted, there was a handful of cases of possible fraud. Yet, there are more people unable to vote because of the restrictions put in place.

That’s the GOP today. So, if you want to quibble over the down ding, I suggest you take it up with the party you’re going to vote for in November. I only identified the faults.

206

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 9:24:55am

re: #201 Mattand

And how much time did Maher spend on his “I’m not saying all Muslims are terrorists, BUT…” idiocy?

Between him and Bob & Chez shitting the bed again over this (please show me these out-of-touch lefties who condone bombing airports, you fuckwits), I’m just waiting for all three of them to start endorsing Pam Geller and Robert Spencer.

Because that’s basically the fucking horseshit they are endorsing here.

That ‘BUT’ is called the Negating ‘But’. When you see it, ignore everything in the sentence that preceded it. Only the stuff after the Negating ‘But’ matters.

207

Mattand Mar 26, 2016 • 9:25:11am

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see Cruz or Kaisch courting white nationalists, its Trump who does that, and I’ve said and I mean that I won’t vote for him or aid him.

but don’t ask me to support Hillary Clinton. That’s just a bridge too far for me.

L-effng-O-L, you’re willing to support someone like Cruz, who pretty much wants to run the country like a theocracy with his Dominionist bullshit, but Hillary Clinton is a bridge too far.

Good God, man.

Honestly, I don’t want you to vote for Clinton. I want you to wake up to the fact about how fucked the GOP has become, and either stay home in November or vote for an alternate party.

208

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 9:25:56am

re: #182 Timothy Watson

What person, other than raging wingnuts, has a problem with George Clooney?

Raising money for down ticket Democrats, apparently isn’t a good thing.

209

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:27:16am

re: #208 lawhawk

Raising money for down ticket Democrats, apparently isn’t a good thing.

Which is why we don’t see Bernie doing it.

210

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 9:28:24am

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see Cruz or Kaisch courting white nationalists, its Trump who does that, and I’ve said and I mean that I won’t vote for him or aid him.

but don’t ask me to support Hillary Clinton. That’s just a bridge too far for me.

I bet you can’t explain that stance in any manner that makes you anything than what you denied above. A fanatic.

- - - -

Google definition:

fa*nat*ic
fəˈnadik/
noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
synonyms: zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent; More
adjective
1.
filled with or expressing excessive zeal.
“his fanatic energy”

211

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 9:31:24am

re: #207 Mattand

Not gonna do that. My state’s messed up BAD, and the Democrats are part of the problem and won’t learn to be part of the solution. So I won’t vote for Trump if he’s nominated, but I’m going to vote for Republicans in all other offices where they’ve got a candidate on my ballot come November.

And that’s just that.

212

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 9:32:32am

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Not gonna do that. My state’s messed up BAd, and the Democrats are part of the problem and won’t learn to be part of the solution. So I won’t vote for Trump if he’s nominated, but I’m going to vote for Republicans in all other offices where they’ve got a candidate on my ballot come November.

And that’s just that.

You build your own walls.

213

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 9:32:32am

re: #205 lawhawk

I see those downdings as total badges of honor. So, to me, congratulations are in order.

Congratulations for being rational and smart. Congratulations for not being a sycophant. Congratulations on your humanity.

214

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:34:20am

Political choices are often moral choices. There is no rule that prevents us from saying: if you vote this way, it’s not a “mere opinion”, it makes you a bad person.

215

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 9:35:03am

LOL

When you’re trying to vlog in a storm and get hit by a fish pic.twitter.com/EH03YuZPZ8

— Fuckoffee (@FUCK0FFEE) February 2, 2016

216

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 9:36:12am

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see Cruz or Kaisch courting white nationalists, its Trump who does that, and I’ve said and I mean that I won’t vote for him or aid him.

but don’t ask me to support Hillary Clinton. That’s just a bridge too far for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you agree with people who say Hillary should be in jail?

217

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 9:38:52am

Morning/afternoon Lizardim.

218

wrenchwench Mar 26, 2016 • 9:38:55am

re: #214 Nyet

Political choices are often moral choices. There is no rule that prevents us from saying: if you vote this way, it’s not a “mere opinion”, it makes you a bad person.

I try to allow for options other than ‘bad’ in many cases. ‘Confused’, ‘ignorant’, ‘misraised’, and ‘really fucking stupid’ are all possibilities.

219

Mattand Mar 26, 2016 • 9:39:01am

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Not gonna do that. My state’s messed up BAd, and the Democrats are part of the problem and won’t learn to be part of the solution. So I won’t vote for Trump if he’s nominated, but I’m going to vote for Republicans in all other offices where they’ve got a candidate on my ballot come November.

And that’s just that.

Have fun, I guess.

I’m not going to pretend that Democrats are blameless angels.

That you still can’t acknowledge how seven years of pandering to the worst bigots and fanatics in the party has led to Trump taking over the GOP is really what’s upsetting.

All of these downticket politicians you’re supporting are going to start take marching orders from Trump, if they haven’t already. What ever screw ups the Dems have committed pales in comparison to that.

220

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 9:39:18am

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

What state is so bad that you’re throwing in with a party that is actively seeking to roll back civil and equal rights? I’d argue none.

What state’s economic situation is so bad that you’d throw in with a party whose idea of economic policy is to engage in shifting tax burdens from rich to everyone else, all while the budgets go bust.

That was the case in Louisiana under the brains of Bobby Jindal.

That happened in Kansas under Brownback.

And other states teeter on the brink, like NJ, because the need to cut taxes for the rich overrides all other concerns, like adequate infrastructure.

States run by Democrats aren’t all wine and roses - NY’s Gov Cuomo has been awful - and in many respects, he’s pushing a GOP agenda with corporate tax cuts while huge needs go unmet. There are budget gaps that have to be closed, but Democrats aren’t actively trying to saddle the burdens on those least able to afford them. The same can’t be said of the GOP.

Compassionate conservatism is dead. Norquist, talk radio, and the hate-right have seen to that.

221

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 9:39:29am

re: #220 lawhawk

D_F lives in Illinois.

222

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 9:43:05am

re: #220 lawhawk

It’s telling to compare the economies (and job creation) of Minnesota and Wisconsin over the last five or so years.

223

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:44:06am

re: #218 wrenchwench

I try to allow for options other than ‘bad’ in many cases. ‘Confused’, ‘ignorant’, ‘misraised’, and ‘really fucking stupid’ are all possibilities.

Sure, and I didn’t exclude these options. I only wrote that there is no rule preventing us from saying that. Whether we should depends, e.g., on whether the person understands what they are doing.

224

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 9:50:37am

re: #221 thedopefishlives

D_F lives in Illinois.

Where there’s about to be a nasty teacher’s strike. The teachers’ union for the Chicago public schools is demanding money the city doesn’t have and that the state doesn’t really have either. So the governor is going to tell the city ‘No!’ and then I expect a prolonged strike.

225

Whack-A-Mole Mar 26, 2016 • 9:51:17am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

Trolls gonna troll. Given the clusterfuck that is his chosen party, DF doesn’t much else to offer these days.

226

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 9:52:13am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

a nasty teacher’s strike. The teacher’s union

Who is that mighty teacher?

;)

227

lawhawk Mar 26, 2016 • 9:53:17am

re: #221 thedopefishlives

Illinois, whose governors have spent more time in prison than they have in the governor’s mansions these past few years. A state whose big cities have suffered because GOP intransigence over tightening up lax gun laws in neighboring states (and nationally) so that the guns flow freely into Chicago. Yeah, I see why he thinks that Democrats shouldn’t be in power there.

But for all that, Illinois is still in decent shape. In fact, it’s still better than a bunch of GOP run states, although some measures suggest that the state’s economy shrank in 4Q2015 while most other states saw growth. And some of the states ahead of it are now suffering due to the energy market upheaval.

228

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 9:53:30am

re: #215 Tigger2

LOL

[Embedded content]

She toucha’d tha fishy!!

Touch Tha Fishy

229

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 9:56:00am

re: #221 thedopefishlives

D_F lives in Illinois.

My home state. I believe all our past living governors, both D and R, are in their own wing of our state prison.

But by all means, it’s all the democrats faults.

230

wrenchwench Mar 26, 2016 • 9:56:16am

re: #223 Nyet

Sure, and I didn’t exclude these options. I only wrote that there is no rule preventing us from saying that. Whether we should depends, e.g., on whether the person understands what they are doing.

Right. And if ignorance etc. do not apply, it is an issue of morals. And if it isn’t said to these people once in a while, we could be seen as a bit complicit.

231

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 9:57:06am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Where there’s about to be a nasty teacher’s strike. The teachers’ union for the Chicago public schools is demanding money the city doesn’t have and that the state doesn’t really have either. So the governor is going to tell the city ‘No!’ and then I expect a prolonged strike.

Ignore that Rahm is saying no. But Go GOP.

232

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 9:57:32am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Teachers getting paid what they’re worth seems to be your #1 item; you’ve railed against them many times previously. If we’re talking about compensation inequality, it seems to me there are far better hills to die on than teacher pay.

233

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 9:57:47am

re: #227 lawhawk

Illinois, whose governors have spent more time in prison than they have in the governor’s mansions these past few years. A state whose big cities have suffered because GOP intransigence over tightening up lax gun laws in neighboring states (and nationally) so that the guns flow freely into Chicago. Yeah, I see why he thinks that Democrats shouldn’t be in power there.

But for all that, Illinois is still in decent shape. In fact, it’s still better than a bunch of GOP run states, although some measures suggest that the state’s economy shrank in 4Q2015 while most other states saw growth. And some of the states ahead of it are now suffering due to the energy market upheaval.

I would compare it to its neighbor to the east, Indiana, which is a GOP stronghold. Nonexistent gun laws, “fiscal conservative” policies that leave it with badly decaying infrastructure and poor public education, and seemingly every week I see a story about Governor Pence signing some controversial right-wing-religious-nutjob bill into law. Yeah.

234

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 9:58:22am

It’s funny Rauner could find the money to give Corporations and Himself a tax break but he can’t find the money to give the teachers a raise. spit.
chicagobusiness.com

235

wrenchwench Mar 26, 2016 • 10:01:37am

Braids are the only things better than pony tails.

Celebrating Boys With Braids in Saskatchewanhttps://t.co/19MNTe7db5 pic.twitter.com/iUOGC4NOwC

— Carol Daniels (@IndigenousXca) March 26, 2016

236

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 10:01:52am

Man, I should have learned by now that I cannot read LGF and listen to Amazon Cloud player at the same time. Time to reboot.

237

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:01:58am

re: #233 thedopefishlives

I would compare it to its neighbor to the east, Indiana, which is a GOP stronghold. Nonexistent gun laws, “fiscal conservative” policies that leave it with badly decaying infrastructure and poor public education, and seemingly every week I see a story about Governor Pence signing some controversial right-wing-religious-nutjob bill into law. Yeah.

Or, as noted above, the spectacular non-existent job growth in WI. Walker’s a real peach.

238

A Mom Anon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:03:04am

re: #219 Mattand

I’m pretty sure it’s entirely possible to not vote straight ticket, “just because”, and actually vote for the PERSON WHO WOULD DO THE BEST JOB. For real. Which would require doing some research into that person’s past voting record (if they’ve served in office before), or to look at their platform if they’re new to being elected to something. Hell, you could even call one of their local campaign offices or drop in and ask questions. You know, it’s called, um, oh yeah. BEING AN INFORMED CITIZEN. Which is harder than just being a stubborn brat who sees anyone with a different affiliation an opponent not worthy of the time of day. But that requires some work and maybe admitting you’re wrong to be so freaking rigid in your thinking. I shall not be over in the corner holding my breath while waiting for that to occur…….

239

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 10:03:27am

re: #237 MsJ

Or, as noted above, the spectacular non-existent job growth in WI. Walker’s a real peach.

There is that, too. Indiana has been suffering a recession of its own; jobs are disappearing, and no one really wants to go there to bring them back.

240

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:05:24am

re: #239 thedopefishlives

There is that, too. Indiana has been suffering a recession of its own; jobs are disappearing, and no one really wants to go there to bring them back.

We have Teabagger Pence as a Governor who couldn’t have seen this coming.

241

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 10:08:31am

re: #238 A Mom Anon

It was easy for me to split my vote when Arne Carlson was the R candidate for governor in MN. The republican party has changed so much since then that Arne and the MN GOP hate each other now.

242

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:08:59am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Where there’s about to be a nasty teacher’s strike. The teachers’ union for the Chicago public schools is demanding money the city doesn’t have and that the state doesn’t really have either. So the governor is going to tell the city ‘No!’ and then I expect a prolonged strike.

Why doesn’t the government remove some tax breaks for business or raise taxes?

Oh…

THOSE DAMN UNIONS ARE TEH SUCKSES!

243

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 10:09:11am

re: #240 Tigger2

We have Teabagger Pence as a Governor who couldn’t have seen this coming.

I read that article linked by Lawhawk about the states’ economies as of 2015, and Indiana’s entry made reference to its “robust steel and auto industries.” *snorts* Did they ever really recover after the big steel mill bust from the early 2000’s? That was huge news, because I lived in northwest Indiana, where large numbers of people were employed at the mills on the lakeshore. The auto industry is surviving, but I would hardly call it “robust”; Kokomo, nearby to the fish farm, is home to a large auto industry sector, and they are definitely suffering from unemployment problems.

244

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:10:04am

re: #240 Tigger2

We have Teabagger Pence as a Governor who couldn’t have seen this coming.

None of them do. They all perform the great race to the bottom, the who can out fuck-their-citizens-best to perfection.

245

lizardofid Mar 26, 2016 • 10:11:58am

Hello all,

Upthread, Sergey mentioned Buck, who I remember. Going further back, to a completely different time, could I ask what ever happened to Gordon?

246

Barefoot Grin Mar 26, 2016 • 10:12:06am

re: #240 Tigger2

We have Teabagger Pence as a Governor who couldn’t have seen this coming.

I’m not surprised. I used to drive regularly between Bloomington and Greencastle, listening to the radio as I went. There were one or two classic rock stations, Bloomington’s NPR station, and then mostly Christian and Country. The towns have churches like Chicago has taverns. I’m sure they love them some Pence.

247

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 10:14:03am

re: #243 thedopefishlives

I read that article linked by Lawhawk about the states’ economies as of 2015, and Indiana’s entry made reference to its “robust steel and auto industries.” *snorts* Did they ever really recover after the big steel mill bust from the early 2000’s? That was huge news, because I lived in northwest Indiana, where large numbers of people were employed at the mills on the lakeshore. The auto industry is surviving, but I would hardly call it “robust”; Kokomo, nearby to the fish farm, is home to a large auto industry sector, and they are definitely suffering from unemployment problems.

MN has a clause in it’s government contracts now that contractors have to use US steel in construction projects if it’s available. This rule came in under Dayton, not Pawlenty. It may add some cost to the project, but it helps protect US jobs. Democratic values.

Edit: Link to story.

248

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:14:58am

re: #246 Barefoot Grin

I’m not surprised. I used to drive regularly between Bloomington and Greencastle, listening to the radio as I went. There was one or two classic rock stations, Bloomington’s NPR station, and then mostly Christian and Country. The towns have churches like Chicago has taverns. I’m sure they love them some Pence.

In the town I live in I think the bars to churches is pretty balanced.

And I don’t see a lot of churches in my town pushing all that rightwing bullshit.

249

A Mom Anon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:16:48am

re: #238 A Mom Anon

And I say all this as someone who rarely, if ever has a Democratic candidate to vote for in any election besides the Presidential ones. That means I have to go to the local board of elections website a few times a year, just to see what’s up(polling place changes, any new rules, issues to pay attention to, etc) and look at sample ballots for my district, so I can spend a bit of time seeing if there’s actually someone besides an off the rails Republican to vote for. I’ve lived in the same place for 20 yrs, sadly there have been only a couple of times I didn’t leave most of my ballot blank because the people who are running are bigoted, racist, sexist, greedy assholes of questionable qualifications. It’s sad. I am disenfranchised and it irritates the hell out of me every election cycle.

250

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 10:16:52am

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Not gonna do that. My state’s messed up BAd, and the Democrats are part of the problem and won’t learn to be part of the solution. So I won’t vote for Trump if he’s nominated, but I’m going to vote for Republicans in all other offices where they’ve got a candidate on my ballot come November.

And that’s just that.

State in bad shape? Who should we look for to help fix the problems? Gee, the shining
examples of Republican leadership of states such as NC, Kansas, Louisiana, Indiana and others show us the way. Yup, they’ve got the answers, and demonstrate a willingness to learn to be part of the solution.

///////////////////////////////////////

251

Stanley Sea Mar 26, 2016 • 10:19:47am

re: #245 lizardofid

Hello all,

Upthread, Sergey mentioned Buck, who I remember. Going further back, to a completely different time, could I ask what ever happened to Gordon?

Gordon? Not recalling that name.

252

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:20:42am

re: #242 SoundGuy 2016

Why doesn’t the government remove some tax breaks for business or raise taxes?

Oh…

~~THOSE DAMN UNIONS ARE TEH SUCKSES!~~

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

253

retired cynic Mar 26, 2016 • 10:21:25am

re: #227 lawhawk

Our most pressing problem right now is that Rauner, while campaigning, sounded a bit more reasonable, but as soon as he took office, said that he would not consider any budget items unless the legislature approved his ‘pro-business reforms.’ Those were a number of BIG anti-union measures that the lege is just NOT going to agree to. So he said no budget. And we have been without one for close to a year, and it looks like it isn’t going to happen in the foreseeable future. The state is paralyzed, urgent needs are going unserved, including higher education. NO money is going from the state to higher ed, and smaller colleges that serve primarily lower income people are sinking fast. And it is a big ocean liner. If we do ever get a budget, and restore funding sometime in the next 2.5 years, those programs will have to start over. Many people have lost their jobs. Museums and state attractions for tourism are closing. It is just a flat disaster.

The recent primary elections saw three state rep elections, and Rauner put his oar in, even on pushing a contested primary on my Repub. rep, pouring money into it, because McCann had voted against him on one bill, because his constituents desired it. In each case, Rauner lost, and he is pushing that loss as a taxpayer loss because we didn’t support his POV.

I have been ashamed of state politics before, but never to the extent that I am now. And it is because of one very wealthy (m)billionaire businessman who had never held public office, and thinks he can just tell everyone ‘below’ him what to do, and they’ll do it.

BAH! Humbug!

254

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 10:21:55am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

because their potential employees will just educate themselves

255

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:22:08am

re: #245 lizardofid

Hello all,

Upthread, Sergey mentioned Buck, who I remember. Going further back, to a completely different time, could I ask what ever happened to Gordon?

He finally ticked Charles off once too often and so Charles showed Nodrog the door.

256

Backwoods_Sleuth Mar 26, 2016 • 10:22:30am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

A lot of those businesses leave just as soon as their tax incentives/breaks expire.
They don’t give a rat’s ass about the local community or economy.

257

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:22:41am

A large part of our population has been conditioned to thing ‘Taxes - BAD! NO NO NO. NEVER, WORLD WILL END.’

Not only do the wealthy benefit from the immediate effect of keeping more wealth, it starves the government of funding to impede it’s effectiveness. Further building on the concept that government is ‘never the answer’ and ineffective.

Then tell the rubes if they work harder they’ll succeed (get wealthy). If only the black and brown people wouldn’t be stealing their jobs they could succeed too!

258

retired cynic Mar 26, 2016 • 10:23:13am

re: #229 MsJ

My home state. I believe all our past living governors, both D and R, are in their own wing of our state prison.

But by all means, it’s all the democrats faults.

Slight exaggeration! Perhaps more of them should be…

259

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:23:21am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

So I guess the education of kids in your state aren’t important, Oh wait that how Republicans get low information voters,

260

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 10:23:39am

re: #232 stpaulbear

Teachers getting paid what they’re worth seems to be your #1 item; you’ve railed against them many times previously. If we’re talking about compensation inequality, it seems to me there are far better hills to die on than teacher pay.

It’s not teachers so much as unions. Unions are the evil.

261

lizardofid Mar 26, 2016 • 10:24:08am

re: #251 Stanley Sea

Gordon? Not recalling that name.

Thanks, it was from way back, in my early lurking days. May have even been in what is know referred to as the dark days. At the time Gordon was a contrarian in his/her own right.

262

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:24:52am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

More Scary Tax Stories based on faith. When considering taxation always consider negative effects, positive effects and pragmatism be damned.

263

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:26:00am

re: #258 retired cynic

Slight exaggeration! Perhaps more of them should be…

Which ones aren’t in prison? Actually, ima gonna go look (I’m on my phone).

264

Barefoot Grin Mar 26, 2016 • 10:26:55am

re: #248 Tigger2

In the town I live in I think the bars to churches is pretty balanced.

And I don’t see a lot of churches in my town pushing all that rightwing bullshit.

Lucky—maybe it was just a south and south-central thing. I wish we could have stayed in Bloomington, actually. But after that we lived in Virginia and Kentucky. I saw more Confederate flags in rural southern Indiana than in either of those two places.

265

retired cynic Mar 26, 2016 • 10:27:13am

re: #263 MsJ

Which ones aren’t in prison? Actually, ima gonna go look (I’m on my phone).

Quinn, Edgar, Thompson never went, and Ryan is now out. Blago is still in.

266

lizardofid Mar 26, 2016 • 10:27:19am

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

He finally ticked Charles off once too often and so Charles showed Nodrog the door.

Thanks Dark.

I can easily imagine that was the outcome, from what I remember.

267

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:27:22am

re: #254 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

because their potential employees will just educate themselves

They don’t think that a system as troubled as that of Chicago can educate its students out side of a few magnet schools and maybe some other schools in decent areas.

To be fair, nobody has a decent idea about how to solve the problems of Chicago’s underclass. Whatever happens, whichever party does it, will most likely just be putting compression bandages on bullet holes.

268

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:27:30am

Politicians have been conditioned to give tax breaks to the businesses who clearly don’t need it. Government assistance is bad when it’s used for actual citizens who need it. Businesses, created and owned by fearless hard working titans of industry need government help? No problem bro, here’s some tax breaks.

The ideology fucking burns.

269

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 10:27:37am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

Yah, we need policies that will encourage businesses to stay in the state. Such as removing all non-discrimination laws, reducing the quality of education for the children of the employees of the business, and letting the infrastructure crumble. That will encourage the businesses to stay.

Let’s just see how well that works for NC in the future.

270

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:28:16am

re: #265 retired cynic

Quinn, Edgar, Thompson never went, and Ryan is now out. Blago is still in.

Correct.

271

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:29:54am

re: #264 Barefoot Grin

Lucky—maybe it was just a south and south-central thing. I wish we could have stayed in Bloomington, actually. But after that we lived in Virginia and Kentucky. I saw more Confederate flags in rural southern Indiana than in either of those two places.

I live in west central In close to the ill-In state line.

272

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:31:17am

re: #259 Tigger2

So I guess the education of kids in your state aren’t important, Oh wait that how Republicans get low information voters,

And how America becomes a third-world in regards to production. Low education, low skills, instant BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GOT! slave labor.

273

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:31:36am

re: #269 A Cranky One

Yah, we need policies that will encourage businesses to stay in the state. Such as removing all non-discrimination laws, reducing the quality of education for the children of the employees of the business, and letting the infrastructure crumble. That will encourage the businesses to stay.

Let’s just see how well that works for NC in the future.

Plan for a year, plant rice.
Plan for 10 years, plant trees.
Plan for 100 years, educate children.

Either conservatism doesn’t know how to plan for the long haul or it does. If all is going according to plan the it’s pretty clear what conservatism is.

274

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:32:44am

re: #263 MsJ

Which ones aren’t in prison? Actually, ima gonna go look (I’m on my phone).

Ok, there are a couple (post-Blago). Before that, I don’t think any living governors are not in prison

275

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:32:45am

re: #269 A Cranky One

Governor Rauner has not tried to eliminate non-discrimination laws in Illinois.

Don’t blame the governor of Illinois for the actions of the governor of North Carolina.

276

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 10:33:53am

re: #251 Stanley Sea

Gordon? Not recalling that name.

yiHrr+bPr8gjsku02FFGGcHlNXO6m+8ybeBOT7sUnfEwJbEgvWHXKTT1xyW2u6wMLZ2XCFYW6qiRX3h2ut9s5gfpxq3wTjIZBjyfnxHLWPYKrA6kM5eMZo9aRBbT7w38/rhu125Sfd+RcfNf/YmrN0MO+dZGbY4ztteIiGpHTs0L991f27j4fA==

277

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 10:34:21am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

No, its because some of those businesses will simply leave if they lose their tax breaks. They don’t want to pay for a major hike in teacher pay and cannot be forced to do so.

Sorry to plug MN again, but we raised taxes here and new business is coming to the state because they feel we have such a good environment for success.

278

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 10:34:54am

re: #249 A Mom Anon

And I say all this as someone who rarely, if ever has a Democratic candidate to vote for in any election besides the Presidential ones. That means I have to go to the local board of elections website a few times a year, just to see what’s up(polling place changes, any new rules, issues to pay attention to, etc) and look at sample ballots for my district, so I can spend a bit of time seeing if there’s actually someone besides an off the rails Republican to vote for. I’ve lived in the same place for 20 yrs, sadly there have been only a couple of times I didn’t leave most of my ballot blank because the people who are running are bigoted, racist, sexist, greedy assholes of questionable qualifications. It’s sad. I am disenfranchised and it irritates the hell out of me every election cycle.

What you just wrote here sounds like Backwoods_Sleuth and the situation she finds herself in Kentucky.

279

MsJ Mar 26, 2016 • 10:35:04am

re: #265 retired cynic

Quinn, Edgar, Thompson never went, and Ryan is now out. Blago is still in.

Ryan is out? Wow. I’m sure what’s left of that family who burned up is thrilled about that.

280

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:35:09am

re: #274 MsJ

Ok, there are a couple (post-Blago). Before that, I don’t think any living governors are not in prison

The only former post-Blago governor is Pat Quinn, who isn’t in prison. George Ryan, Blago’s predecessor, went to prison but has since gotten out. Jim Edgar, who was governor before Ryan, has never been to prison nor convicted of a serious crime.

281

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:36:02am

re: #277 stpaulbear

Sorry to plug MN again, but we raised taxes here and new business is coming to the state because they feel we have such a good environment for success.

Minnesota doesn’t have Illinois’ structural debt problems.

282

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:37:35am

Seems legit

283

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:38:58am

And here’s a bill signed by a Republican governor you’ll all like:

Scott signs rape-kit, needle-exchange bills into law

TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott on Wednesday signed into law measures that require local law-enforcement agencies to submit rape kits to be tested and another allowing the creation of a needle-exchange program in Miami-Dade County.

Scott praised SB 636, which would establish time limits for rape kits to be submitted to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for testing. He said in a statement the move would “provide thousands of women with a renewed sense of safety and closure as they heal from the horrific crime of rape.”

Demand for the bill followed revelations that thousands of rape kits had been collected but not tested statewide. In September, Attorney General Pam Bondi called on lawmakers to increase funding for crime labs to address the backlog. In early January, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement reported that the state had more than 13,000 untested rape kits.

No one disputed that testing the DNA evidence could help prevent future rapes, but until Wednesday, Florida had not required law-enforcement agencies to submit rape kits for testing.

The law requires law agencies to submit rape kits within 30 days of the beginning of their investigations or after being notified by victims that they wish the evidence to be tested.

284

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 10:39:31am

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Governor Rauner has not tried to eliminate non-discrimination laws in Illinois.

Don’t blame the governor of Illinois for the actions of the governor of North Carolina.

And the fact that both governors are in the same party is irrelevant, right? We shouldn’t look at how Republican policies have worked in other states to evaluate whether Republican policies are the solution to current problems in Illinois?

Sure, let’s ignore how those policies are destroying other states. Go team!

285

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:39:54am

re: #282 SoundGuy 2016

[Embedded content]

Who is Ted Cruz supposed to have killed?

286

Barefoot Grin Mar 26, 2016 • 10:40:12am

re: #271 Tigger2

I live in west central In close to the ill-In state line.

I have a pretty good sense of that, I think. I grew up in Champaign, worked in Lafayette for three years, then went to school and worked in Bloomington. I spent a lot of time on I-74 and on roads going through Terre Haute or Crawfordsville going back to CU to see my folks. I could be exaggerating (I’m sure I am), but I know there’s a big difference between central and southern Illinois and I felt the same about Indiana.

I wonder—retired cynic, if you see this, are you still in the CU area?

287

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 10:40:22am

re: #271 Tigger2

I live in west central In close to the ill-In state line.

I drive through that area on my way in to fish country. How far are you from Lafayette?

288

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:41:54am

re: #286 Barefoot Grin

I have a pretty good sense of that, I think. I grew up in Champaign, worked in Lafayette for three years, then went to school and worked in Bloomington. I spent a lot of time on I-74 and on roads going through Terre Haute or Crawfordsville going back to CU to see my folks. I could be exaggerating (I’m sure I am), but I know there’s a big difference between central and southern Illinois and I felt the same about Indiana.

I wonder—retired cynic, if you see this, are you still in the CU area?

Terre Haute.

289

SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN Mar 26, 2016 • 10:41:56am

I’ve always felt that the threat of businesses leaving your state because of high taxes is overblown. It costs far more to move than whatever savings they would get. State taxes are usually not ll that high. Now if a company is building new facilities, they may shop around for a good opportunity, but no, I don’t see them leaving just because of taxes.

290

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 10:42:41am

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Minnesota doesn’t have Illinois’ structural debt problems.

Because we were taxed enough to avoid them. We didn’t fuck up that way. Most, if not all, state employees belong to unions (mostly MAPE and AFSCME) and we’re not collapsing under the cost of keeping a stable workforce.

291

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:44:03am

The ‘leaving cuz of high taxes’ fear mongering is hyperbole with little facts to back it up. The moment some business owner mentions high taxes it’s blown up all over and becomes True Believer Facts.

292

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 10:44:29am

re: #256 Backwoods_Sleuth

A lot of those businesses leave just as soon as their tax incentives/breaks expire.
They don’t give a rat’s ass about the local community or economy.

But…but…but Corporations are people too.

People do not like cities to swing the bucks to build a sportsball stadium with the teams threatening to leave if they do not get their way.

What really is the difference with a big corporation holding a city hostage for lower taxes and other favorables or taking off to somewhere that will?

I guess that what Mitt was talking about “Corporations are people too!” Just that most people can’t get the big stick used to hold a community hostage…or dump gazillions of bucks into our politics for influence.

And there is the problem…people really are not represented by our representative government when they have to fight huge monied corporations.

Gee…that sounded like a Bernie endorsement! : )

293

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 10:44:55am

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Minnesota doesn’t have Illinois’ structural debt problems.

And we’ll all seen how Republican policies have fixed the debt problems in states like Kansas, correct?

SMH.

294

Belafon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:45:11am

re: #282 SoundGuy 2016

Like it other than the constant “disliked by pretty much everyone.” She wouldn’t be ahead by nearly 3M votes if she were truly disliked.

295

Barefoot Grin Mar 26, 2016 • 10:45:20am

re: #288 Tigger2

Terre Haute.

Gave us Eugene Debs!

296

lizardofid Mar 26, 2016 • 10:45:29am

re: #276 Nyet

M/fIsfBAG8CsC3Zillw76u1KSJ8M6HrvdMXVkf2BMoxcGb9Id1DqUELWbZ/cAU5+j4bYQrGjJDNdAIPOk3/y3s6SK4gkqttZajRxcLA3i9mcZtOIbZlMo11gpsjioHnon30koxok4Qk=

297

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 10:48:29am

re: #267 Dark_Falcon

They don’t think that a system as troubled as that of Chicago can educate its students out side of a few magnet schools and maybe some other schools in decent areas.

To be fair, nobody has a decent idea about how to solve the problems of Chicago’s underclass. Whatever happens, whichever party does it, will most likely just be putting compression bandages on bullet holes.

Interesting choice of word.

Underclass.

Bullet Holes.

Hmmm. Chicago.

298

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:49:49am

re: #294 Belafon

You got to give a little to let it be funny. Hillary is a flawed candidate, but aren’t all candidates flawed? The reality is I’m probably going to vote for her and have little reservation about it, least of which is any ‘dislike’ for her. Her record and experience is ginormous compared to the rest of the GOP field.

If we’re going to really start measuring dislike the GOP has a full field of detestable characters.

299

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:51:09am

@AngryBlackLady The Underpants Gnomes of 2016
1. Relentlessly harass a black woman online.
2. ???
3. President Bernie Sanders!
— Allan Brauer (@allanbrauer) March 26, 2016

300

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 10:52:29am

re: #299 SoundGuy 2016

Did she piss them off by being mildly critical of Saint Bernard?

301

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 10:53:11am

re: #300 Nyet

Did she piss them off by being mildly critical of Saint Bernard?

I think so.

302

Charles Johnson Mar 26, 2016 • 10:53:42am

These people.

The “Mother Nature endorsement” hasn’t always turned out so great. #BirdieSanders pic.twitter.com/kaI1ErS32v

— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) March 26, 2016

303

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 10:53:52am

re: #294 Belafon

Like it other than the constant “disliked by pretty much everyone.” She wouldn’t be ahead by nearly 3M votes if she were truly disliked.

Right. I mean people don’t have to like Clinton but there are people who definitely do genuinely like her. I really hate this narrative big time. It’s a load of shit.

304

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 10:54:15am

re: #290 stpaulbear

Because we were taxed enough to avoid them. We didn’t fuck up that way. Most, if not all, state employees belong to unions (mostly MAPE and AFSCME) and we’re not collapsing under the cost of keeping a stable workforce.

More because Minnesota didn’t agree to pension schemes that could never be afforded in the long term and that state has kept its pensions funded, which Illinois failed to do (a fault that is on both parties here).

305

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 10:54:41am

re: #302 Charles Johnson

These people.

[Embedded content]

Comparing a man who lost family in the Holocaust to Hitler, stay classy Frank and wonder why your party doesn’t get the Jewish vote ever.

306

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:54:54am

re: #295 Barefoot Grin

Gave us Eugene Debs!

And Paul Dresser.

307

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 10:55:39am

re: #300 Nyet

I think she failed to stand up with arms raised, crying with joy, when the little bird landed on his podium. A very serious crime.

I think that bird on the podium was the BernieBot’s Howard Dean Yeehaw moment. Not because of Bernie, but because of his fans.

308

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 10:56:05am

re: #305 HappyWarrior

This from a man whose very job is words and symbols.

309

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 10:56:50am

re: #307 SoundGuy 2016

I think she failed to stand up with arms raised, crying with joy, when the little bird landed on his podium. A very serious crime.

I think that bird on the podium was the BernieBot’s Howard Dean Yeehaw moment. Not because of Bernie, but because of his fans.

What is the Bernie bird moment? I’ve seen the photo circulate a little but don’t understand. I mean it’s cute but it’s not changing my mind that Bernie has a lot of deficits as both a candidate and potential president.

310

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 10:57:09am

re: #308 Nyet

This from a man whose very job is words and symbols.

Ah, a professional bullshit artist.

311

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 10:58:54am

She isn’t even for Hillary.

Are you fucking daft? I AM NOT A HILLARY SUPPORTER. https://t.co/sTk8kn0tbn

— Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) March 26, 2016

312

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:00:07am

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

More because Minnesota didn’t agree to pension schemes that could never be afforded in the long term and that state has kept its pensions funded, which Illinois failed to do (a fault that is on both parties here).

And how did we keep them funded? By being judicious with them, yes, but also by maintaining appropriate tax rates and not slashing taxes (especially on corporations) in an attempt to curry favor.

313

SoundGuy 2016 Mar 26, 2016 • 11:00:36am

re: #309 HappyWarrior

What is the Bernie bird moment? I’ve seen the photo circulate a little but don’t understand. I mean it’s cute but it’s not changing my mind that Bernie has a lot of deficits as both a candidate and potential president.

He was at a stop and a little bird landed on his podium, resulting in campaign zaniness manifesting in #BirdieSanders. The reaction by the crowd at that moment was kooky, as it there was some higher meaning behind it.

314

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 11:01:11am

re: #312 thedopefishlives

And how did we keep them funded? By being judicious with them, yes, but also by maintaining appropriate tax rates and not slashing taxes (especially on corporations) in an attempt to curry favor.

It is assumed that all budget deficits come from runaway spending and not from insufficient revenue collection. Just ask Sam Brownback…

315

SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN Mar 26, 2016 • 11:01:35am

re: #314 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

…and Bobby Jindal

316

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 11:01:51am

re: #313 SoundGuy 2016

He was at a stop and a little bird landed on his podium, resulting in campaign zaniness manifesting in #BirdieSanders. The reaction by the crowd at that moment was kooky, as it there was some higher meaning behind it.

Next we will see a unicorn come and lay its head in his lap…

317

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:02:12am

re: #284 A Cranky One

And the fact that both governors are in the same party is irrelevant, right? We shouldn’t look at how Republican policies have worked in other states to evaluate whether Republican policies are the solution to current problems in Illinois?

Sure, let’s ignore how those policies are destroying other states. Go team!

I had asked the other day if ALEC had anything to do with what NC passed about removing all non-discrimination laws. If they did, then Dark can expect other states will be looking to do the same. And that will happen in GOP controlled states. It would not surprise me to see Kasich try that crap here in Ohio. He’ll be sneaky about it. Probably not talk about it and slide it in some other legislation and pass it some time when no one is watching.

318

gwangung Mar 26, 2016 • 11:03:37am

re: #301 HappyWarrior

I think so.

She critiqued the “Bernie or Bust” meme, indicating that reproductive rights and being black are not something that’s being addressed by Sanders very well.

319

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:03:52am

re: #313 SoundGuy 2016

He was at a stop and a little bird landed on his podium, resulting in campaign zaniness manifesting in #BirdieSanders. The reaction by the crowd at that moment was kooky, as it there was some higher meaning behind it.

Ah okay a cute photo turned into something bigger than it should. Business as usual. Luntz can go choke on a rancid bag of dicks for using the Hitler photo though.

320

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:03:54am

re: #314 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It is assumed that all budget deficits come from runaway spending and not from insufficient revenue collection. Just ask Sam Brownback…

There is such a thing as over-taxation. However, under-taxation is a serious problem, and has the double whammy that if you try to raise taxes to appropriate levels to fix the insufficient revenue, people revolt.

321

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:04:13am

re: #318 gwangung

She critiqued the “Bernie or Bust” meme, indicating that reproductive rights and being black are not something that’s being addressed by Sanders very well.

She’d be correct about that.

322

gwangung Mar 26, 2016 • 11:04:13am

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

More because Minnesota didn’t agree to pension schemes that could never be afforded in the long term and that state has kept its pensions funded, which Illinois failed to do (a fault that is on both parties here).

I think this is an incorrect statement. Show your work.

323

Dark_Falcon Mar 26, 2016 • 11:04:23am

re: #317 ObserverArt

I believe the answer to your question is ‘no’. That brain fart came out of a different source. It has appeared to be the personal brain fart of North Carolina’s governor.

324

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:05:01am

re: #288 Tigger2

Terre Haute.

Hulman family central!

(IndyCar racing fan…talk about Indiana politics.)

325

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:05:49am

What I have seen too often is self proclaimed fiscally responsible Republicans are far from it. I have seen the very “tax and spend liberals” be much better stewards of the state’s finances. Honestly, I can’t speak about Illinois having never lived there or visited there however.

326

gwangung Mar 26, 2016 • 11:06:08am

re: #321 HappyWarrior

She’d be correct about that.

TO be more precise, Sanders has something to say about them, but “Bernie or Bust” leaves reproductive rights and BlackLivesMatter out in the cold.

And I don’t think you can dispute that.

327

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:07:03am

re: #325 HappyWarrior

What I have seen too often is self proclaimed fiscally responsible Republicans are far from it. I have seen the very “tax and spend liberals” be much better stewards of the state’s finances. Honestly, I can’t speak about Illinois having never lived there or visited there however.

It’s not rocket surgery. If you know and can keep track of the money going out, you know how much money you need to bring in. You know how many people and corporations are in your state, and their revenue capacity. You know what tax levels you need to set to fund all the expenditures. The actual implementation thereof is more of a political game; the mechanics are simple math.

328

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:07:27am

re: #297 ObserverArt

Interesting choice of word.

Underclass.

Bullet Holes.

Hmmm. Chicago.

A number of years ago, as part of a company supported initiative, my department at work adopted an inner city Chicago school. Volunteers provided tutoring, helped the schools improve their facilities by donating surplussed computer equipment, etc.

As part of that effort, we provided a summer internship for one of the students. Rather than a make-work project, we put him to work creating simulations of operator actions for a human factors study.

When the internship was over, I hauled a bunch of equipment to the school to give a demonstration to other students at the school, showing what the intern had done. I noted that he’d learned more in 3 months than most kids learn in a year or two of computer classes at the school. The kid was worked really hard and came through in spectacular fashion.

After the demonstration/talk, I was startled at the number of kids who approached me asking how they could get involved in a similar program. They weren’t put off by knowing they’d have to work hard and show initiative; they just wanted an opportunity.

I wonder how much better off the state would be if only those kids had been given more opportunity and support.

But let’s criticize the teachers who worked under difficult conditions as greedy and selfish. That will fix the state’s problems. Right, Republicans?

Oh and the kid who did the internship? Company offered a scholarship and he eventually ended up with a job there. Last I heard he was doing quite well.

329

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:07:50am

re: #326 gwangung

TO be more precise, Sanders has something to say about them, but “Bernie or Bust” leaves reproductive rights and BlackLivesMatter out in the cold.

And I don’t think you can dispute that.

As someone on the spectrum, I’ve seen some criticism from our advocates about how he approaches issues to that community as well. As much as I appreciate Bernie’s ambitious plan to reduce student tuition, I think Bernie’s education plan misses a lot too. Clinton’s seems much more detailed and prepared.

330

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Mar 26, 2016 • 11:08:12am

re: #325 HappyWarrior

What I have seen too often is self proclaimed fiscally responsible Republicans are far from it. I have seen the very “tax and spend liberals” be much better stewards of the state’s finances. Honestly, I can’t speak about Illinois having never lived there or visited there however.

“Tax and spend liberals” is a standard stock phrase. just like “free stuff” or “Mexican rapists and drug dealers”. They all indicate a view of politics and society that make people who use them all but impossible to govern with or against.

331

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 11:08:15am

re: #260 ObserverArt

It’s not teachers so much as unions. Unions are the evil.

Except the police union, of course. And if 1% of those cops are evil/violent/racist/lazy/dishonest or for any other reason unsuited to the job… “noooo!! the union has to support them anyway. let them get away with whatever they’ve done or whoever they’ve murdered!! Because cops — all cops, everywhere, all the time — should only be judged by the very best officers and we close our eyes to the rest.

Unlike teachers, who should all — each and every one of them — be judged by the absolute worst teacher in the entire district. And if one of them is abusive or criminal, if teachers are anything less than unanimously excellent, then all of them are to blame and should have their pay cut.

332

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:09:41am

re: #327 thedopefishlives

It’s not rocket surgery. If you know and can keep track of the money going out, you know how much money you need to bring in. You know how many people and corporations are in your state, and their revenue capacity. You know what tax levels you need to set to fund all the expenditures. The actual implementation thereof is more of a political game; the mechanics are simple math.

Right. It just amazes me how much of a total fail Brownback is and the people of Kansas still gave him a second chance.I don’t know where people get this misguided idea that Republicans and conservatives are better fiscally. I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that. I’d much rather be a tax and spend liberal over a tax cut and not spend much at all conservative because at least the former believes in the state investing in its people based on revenues.

333

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:10:12am

re: #330 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

“Tax and spend liberals” is a standard stock phrase. just like “free stuff” or “Mexican rapists and drug dealers”. They all indicate of view of politics and society that make people who use them all but impossible to govern with or against.

Hence the scare quotes. Tax and spend liberal is a stupid and dated archetype.

334

gwangung Mar 26, 2016 • 11:10:58am

re: #333 HappyWarrior

Hence the scare quotes. Tax and spend liberal is a stupid and dated archetype.

Tax and spend liberals means they balance the budget.

335

Tigger2 Mar 26, 2016 • 11:11:13am

re: #324 ObserverArt

Hulman family central!

(IndyCar racing fan…talk about Indiana politics.)

Used to live a couple blocks from the Hulman’s used to go to their house on Halloween because they gave the big candy bars. :)

The last time me and my Daughter when to the Brickyard Race (NASCAR) we got to sit in the Hulman/George Family Suite, Mary Hulman knew my daughter from the store my daughter worked at and gave us Garage Passes, Pit Passes and Tickets to her Suite. The Hulmans are good people.

336

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:12:13am

re: #331 sagehen

Except the police union, of course. And if 1% of those cops are evil/violent/racist/lazy/dishonest or for any other reason unsuited to the job… “noooo!! the union has to support them anyway. let them get away with whatever they’ve done or whoever they’ve murdered!! Because cops — all cops, everywhere, all the time — should only be judged by the very best officers and we close our eyes to the rest.

Unlike teachers, who should all — each and every one of them — be judged by the absolute worst teacher in the entire district. And if one of them is abusive or criminal, if teachers are anything less than unanimously excellent, then all of them are to blame and should have their pay cut.

My godmother was a teacher. I know how hard she worked first to become a teacher (first person in her family to get a college education and was high school valedictorian), I’m getting sick and tired of DF’s party scapegoating teachers and making them out to be bad people because they want to be paid a decent amount. Of course, this is the same party that calls union bosses greedy but celebrates CEOs who give themselves bonuses even when their business is under-performing.

337

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:12:23am

re: #334 gwangung

Tax and spend liberals means they balance the budget.

Zing.

338

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:12:30am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

I believe the answer to your question is ‘no’. That brain fart came out of a different source. It has appeared to be the personal brain fart of North Carolina’s governor.

And the Republican legislators who created and passed the bill aren’t also responsible? It’s all the governor’s fault?

Tell me another one. You’re funny.

339

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:12:37am

re: #309 HappyWarrior

What is the Bernie bird moment? I’ve seen the photo circulate a little but don’t understand. I mean it’s cute but it’s not changing my mind that Bernie has a lot of deficits as both a candidate and potential president.

See post #13 above and then a few other comments following.

340

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:13:37am

re: #339 ObserverArt

See post #13 above and then a few other comments following.

Yeah got it covered. Seems like harmless silly stuff to me.

341

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 11:13:47am

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

More because Minnesota didn’t agree to pension schemes that could never be afforded in the long term and that state has kept its pensions funded, which Illinois failed to do (a fault that is on both parties here).

But you’re failing to see that raising taxes is a part of what you need to get out of the hole. You just can’t blame the past without pursuing what the present calls for to solve the problem.

If you’re stuck in a hole, it may be a good idea to spend some money on a ladder.

342

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:14:36am

re: #312 thedopefishlives

And how did we keep them funded? By being judicious with them, yes, but also by maintaining appropriate tax rates and not slashing taxes (especially on corporations) in an attempt to curry favor.

Silly details that can be glossed over for sake of argument!

343

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:16:30am

re: #316 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Next we will see a unicorn come and lay its head in his lap…

Hell, that may make me change my vote!

What are the chances???

344

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:16:35am

The problem many of today’s conservatives have is that they are completely unwilling to even consider raising taxes to fix the deficit. This is a fundamental difference between today’s liberals and conservatives. I hate to cut spending in key areas but I acknowledge it may sometimes be necessary because even I know there is some waste. There is no liberal Grover Norquist threatening to primary a Democrat who signs cuts to social spending but when it comes to taxes and Republicans, if you even consider raising taxes, you’re dead to these types. Ironically the more fiscally conservative Republicans have been men like Eisenhower, Ford, and H.W Bush who weren’t exactly popular with the right wing base in part because they saw that sometimes tax increases are necessary evils. No one is giddy about a tax increase but only one party seems to understand that they may be necessary sometimes.

345

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:17:50am

Three reasons to move to Mexico instead of Canada if Trump wins the election:

1) It’s warmer than Canada
2) Tacos!
3) You’ll literally have a wall between you and Donald Trump.

346

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:18:15am

re: #332 HappyWarrior

Right. It just amazes me how much of a total fail Brownback is and the people of Kansas still gave him a second chance.I don’t know where people get this misguided idea that Republicans and conservatives are better fiscally. I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that. I’d much rather be a tax and spend liberal over a tax cut and not spend much at all conservative because at least the former believes in the state investing in its people based on revenues.

A government spending money is an investment in the country it governs. It doesn’t make sense for government to raise just enough money to operate the basic necessities. Government spending is a driver of the economy, and as long as taxes are kept to a level that maintains the income without being unjust or cruel, it perpetuates a positive-feedback cycle.

347

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:19:19am

re: #345 A Cranky One

Three reasons to move to Mexico instead of Canada if Trump wins the election:

1) It’s warmer than Canada
2) Tacos!
3) You’ll literally have a wall between you and Donald Trump.

Si!

348

lizardofid Mar 26, 2016 • 11:19:29am

Later Lizard folk,

Grandson is ready to paint new bee boxes, and we’re burning daylight.

Everyone have a great day/evening.

349

HappyWarrior Mar 26, 2016 • 11:19:44am

re: #346 thedopefishlives

A government spending money is an investment in the country it governs. It doesn’t make sense for government to raise just enough money to operate the basic necessities. Government spending is a driver of the economy, and as long as taxes are kept to a level that maintains the income without being unjust or cruel, it perpetuates a positive-feedback cycle.

Good points.

350

stpaulbear Mar 26, 2016 • 11:22:29am

re: #322 gwangung

I think this is an incorrect statement. Show your work.

I’m not familiar with Illinois’ situation, but I know that I’m going to receive a retirement pension from the State of MN that’s about half of what I’ll get in social security.

I’m about three years from retirement. I hope that we never wind up with an all-republican state government again that tries to dismantle the retirement system.

351

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:22:58am

re: #327 thedopefishlives

It’s not rocket surgery. If you know and can keep track of the money going out, you know how much money you need to bring in. You know how many people and corporations are in your state, and their revenue capacity. You know what tax levels you need to set to fund all the expenditures. The actual implementation thereof is more of a political game; the mechanics are simple math.

Ha! I like your “rocket surgery” comment. Was that intentional? Usually it is rocket science…meaning having to have a special knowledge. With surgery it implies special knowledge but even more…you have to work on a live thing that if you screw up could not only go boom, but zip around uncontrolled tearing up a bunch of stuff.

352

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:24:46am

re: #351 ObserverArt

Ha! I like your “rocket surgery” comment. Was that intentional? Usually it is rocket science…meaning having to have a special knowledge. With surgery it implies special knowledge but even more…you have to work on a live thing that if you screw up could not only go boom, but zip around uncontrolled tearing up a bunch of stuff.

Rocket surgery: A portmanteau of “rocket science” and “brain surgery”. It’s meant to be funny.

353

gwangung Mar 26, 2016 • 11:24:50am

re: #346 thedopefishlives

A government spending money is an investment in the country it governs. It doesn’t make sense for government to raise just enough money to operate the basic necessities. Government spending is a driver of the economy, and as long as taxes are kept to a level that maintains the income without being unjust or cruel, it perpetuates a positive-feedback cycle.

In WA and CA, universities are considered the powering force of the economy, creating the knowledge necessary for innovations, and creating the skilled work force to bring them to market. The companies in the area acknowledge that and ALWAYS lobby for increased support for higher education.

What do they know that other people dont?

354

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 11:25:54am

re: #345 A Cranky One

Three reasons to move to Mexico instead of Canada if Trump wins the election:

1) It’s warmer than Canada
2) Tacos!
3) You’ll literally have a wall between you and Donald Trump.

On the other hand…

Canada is less violent.
You don’t have to learn a new language.
Health care.

355

Nyet Mar 26, 2016 • 11:28:09am

Am on ep. 8 s. 2 of DD, and while the show is very cool, I must say I liked the 1st season more.

356

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:28:33am

re: #328 A Cranky One

A number of years ago, as part of a company supported initiative, my department at work adopted an inner city Chicago school. Volunteers provided tutoring, helped the schools improve their facilities by donating surplussed computer equipment, etc.

As part of that effort, we provided a summer internship for one of the students. Rather than a make-work project, we put him to work creating simulations of operator actions for a human factors study.

When the internship was over, I hauled a bunch of equipment to the school to give a demonstration to other students at the school, showing what the intern had done. I noted that he’d learned more in 3 months than most kids learn in a year or two of computer classes at the school. The kid was worked really hard and came through in spectacular fashion.

After the demonstration/talk, I was startled at the number of kids who approached me asking how they could get involved in a similar program. They weren’t put off by knowing they’d have to work hard and show initiative; they just wanted an opportunity.

I wonder how much better off the state would be if only those kids had been given more opportunity and support.

But let’s criticize the teachers who worked under difficult conditions as greedy and selfish. That will fix the state’s problems. Right, Republicans?

Oh and the kid who did the internship? Company offered a scholarship and he eventually ended up with a job there. Last I heard he was doing quite well.

A most excellent example. An update on ‘teach a man to fish.’ People need to realize in poorer communities it is not just food they lack. They also have a hunger to learn and grow.

357

sagehen Mar 26, 2016 • 11:31:38am

re: #353 gwangung

In WA and CA, universities are considered the powering force of the economy, creating the knowledge necessary for innovations, and creating the skilled work force to bring them to market. The companies in the area acknowledge that and ALWAYS lobby for increased support for higher education.

What do they know that other people dont?

The moonshot cost a *ton* of federal money. And of course there was zero economic development to be found on the moon. The government got not a single dollar, directly, back for it.

On the other hand, the program that made it possible… invented and discovered everything that powered 1970’s-1990’s economic development. For any economist willing to look to second and third level indirect effects, Mercury and Apollo programs got an incredible RoI. Where would we be without satellites, computers, air filtration, water reclamation, the new metal alloys, etc etc etc etc?

358

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:31:58am

re: #330 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

“Tax and spend liberals” is a standard stock phrase. just like “free stuff” or “Mexican rapists and drug dealers”. They all indicate a view of politics and society that make people who use them all but impossible to govern with or against.

They are political flashcards. Put up a card that says “tax and spend liberals” and everyone knows the answer. It becomes a game and everyone knows the answers because of the FOX education.

359

CuriousLurker Mar 26, 2016 • 11:34:53am

re: #308 Nyet

This from a man whose very job is words and symbols.

Not only that, it’s a crow. Unlike the crow, the Homa—which is the bird the Iranian professor was carrying on about in his Facebook post—has only positive associations (at least I’ve never heard or read anything negative about it in the context of Persian legends/mythology). Also, it never lands on the ground, spending “its entire life flying invisibly high above the earth.”

The whole episode is just stupid.

360

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:37:29am

re: #353 gwangung

In WA and CA, universities are considered the powering force of the economy, creating the knowledge necessary for innovations, and creating the skilled work force to bring them to market. The companies in the area acknowledge that and ALWAYS lobby for increased support for higher education.

What do they know that other people dont?

A major factor in the creation and growth of Silicon Valley was the availability of trained engineers and scientists to start and work in high tech companies.

A very large number of those engineers and scientists got their education and training at inexpensive state schools in California. Since high tech is now one of the major drivers of our economy, I’d say that affordable quality education has benefited California and the country and high tech companies far more than low taxes.

Cutting funding for higher ed to lower taxes may look attractive to some folks, but in the long term will have disastrous effects on the economy. But short term thinking has become the standard for some businesses and a certain political party in the US.

361

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:37:49am

re: #352 thedopefishlives

Rocket surgery: A portmanteau of “rocket science” and “brain surgery”. It’s meant to be funny.

Sounds French! : )

362

Not a Sparkly Vampire Mar 26, 2016 • 11:38:45am

363

thedopefishlives Mar 26, 2016 • 11:40:05am

re: #362 Not a Sparkly Vampire

Ha! I love it.

364

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:42:30am

re: #357 sagehen

The moonshot cost a *ton* of federal money. And of course there was zero economic development to be found on the moon. The government got not a single dollar, directly, back for it.

On the other hand, the program that made it possible… invented and discovered everything that powered 1970’s-1990’s economic development. For any economist willing to look to second and third level indirect effects, Mercury and Apollo programs got an incredible RoI. Where would we be without satellites, computers, air filtration, water reclamation, the new metal alloys, etc etc etc etc?

The high cost of lifting things into space was THE major driver for a lot of miniaturization and new technologies. Got a computer you can hold in one hand? Thank the space program.

365

calochortus Mar 26, 2016 • 11:42:52am

re: #360 A Cranky One

Of course, state colleges and universities in CA are now seriously expensive, just because.
Sigh…

366

Blind Frog Belly White Mar 26, 2016 • 11:43:25am

re: #291 SoundGuy 2016

The ‘leaving cuz of high taxes’ fear mongering is hyperbole with little facts to back it up. The moment some business owner mentions high taxes it’s blown up all over and becomes True Believer Facts.

It’s true! That’s why California and New York have no big businesses, and Mississippi and Alabama are such economic powerhouses!!!

367

ObserverArt Mar 26, 2016 • 11:44:17am

re: #362 Not a Sparkly Vampire

Embedded Image

There you go!

(Love it as a former model rocketeer, friend of a now-retired Boeing Aero engineer and all around space loving geek of the early 60s that lives in a state that bore John Glenn and Neil Armstrong, The Wright Bros and others)

368

A Cranky One Mar 26, 2016 • 11:44:52am

re: #365 calochortus

Of course, state colleges and universities in CA are now seriously expensive, just because.
Sigh…

Sadly true. And it may cost our economy big time in the future.

369

Blind Frog Belly White Mar 26, 2016 • 11:58:44am

I’m starting to agree with Sergey’s point above - at a certain point, voting for bad people makes you not a good person.

I do not think that you can support Ted Cruz, for example - a theocrat and islamophobe who wants to take away rights from women, Muslims, LGBT folks, Latinos, and others - and still claim to be a good person. You’re supporting someone who wants to do bad things to entire groups of Americans, who wants to put the stamp of his own peculiar religion on us. Leaving aside tactics, how is that different from Islamists imposing their own peculiar views of Sharia on a population?

And WRT those tactics, remember this is the guy who wants to carpet bomb an insurgent population that hides among a civilian population that they oppress - and of whom they’ve killed far more than they have of us.

No, Dark, you can’t support Ted Cruz and claim to be a good person. It doesn’t matter if you disagree with the things he stands for, you are supporting a man who is running on the promise to do horrible things.

It’s not that you’re a ‘walking contradiction’, because you’re not. You’re someone who puts TEAM above PRINCIPLE. Is that the mark of a good person, in your estimation?

370

Blind Frog Belly White Mar 26, 2016 • 12:00:53pm

re: #368 A Cranky One

Sadly true. And it may cost our economy big time in the future.

It is already. Young people burdened by college debt and unable to find the jobs that would pay it off are delaying leaving home, delaying starting families, delaying buying houses.

371

BadgerB Mar 26, 2016 • 12:04:27pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

It’s not a ‘misunderstanding’, not on either side of the line. It’s a disagreement, in many cases about first principals. In most situations liberals and conservatives have very different views of the proper role of government.

This is why I’m glad that you stick around Dark. I up-dinged this because it mirrors by take on where the country is right now. We do however disagree on the appropriate ‘first principals’.

Conservatives (as a whole) - Want the government to ensure that the rich, the politically connect, the religious majority to be able to leverage their power to their best advantage. That is, conservatives ‘American Freedom’ is the freedom of the strong, a passive government that looks the other way and does not interfere in the power struggles between groups and individuals.

Progressives (as a whole) - Want the government to act as the shield and advocate of the poor, the politically disconnected, and minorities of all kinds. Their freedom is the freedom from being oppressed, exploited, disenfranchised and requires an active government committed to intervening on behalf on those who lack personal power.

Example 1: Should a boss be able to fire an employee who decides that she wants to continue working after marriage if that goes against the boss’ religious belief?

Conservatives - Its the boss’ business, he should be able to fire anyone he wishes and the government shouldn’t interfere in his ability to act on his personal beliefs.

Progressives - Want the worker to be free to decide if they want to continue to work or to stay home after marriage regardless of the boss’ beliefs.

As Dark points out, this is a choice that can be made either way and some will choose one side and others the other. By recognizing that it is a choice with logic on both sides we can move past the idea that ‘the others’ are illogical and accept that we have to convince enough people to see our side and choose to live in a country that follows our personal priorities.

Example 2: Should a same-sex couple be able to get a marriage license if the majority of the people in a state don’t want them to be able to?

Conservatives - No, the majority should be able to prevent the movement from validating things they don’t wish to support.

Progressives - Yes, the government should ensure that all citizens are able to live their lives by their own personal beliefs and not be restricted by the beliefs of the majority.

This test can be applied in most of the currently controversial areas of policy debate. Republicans want the government to ensure that they can punch-down, Democrats want the government to actively prevent that.

372

Blind Frog Belly White Mar 26, 2016 • 12:07:32pm

I would note that I used to play a role similar to Dark’s on a board full of Conservatives. One key difference is that I used data, reason, and logic to disagree with the wingnuts, and I worked hard to make compelling arguments for my positions. When you do that, it sharpens your ability to argue, so I’d say in that sense, Dark is doing us a service, because it sharpens us. But honestly, I haven’t seen a lot of cogent argument coming back from him.

373

Jay C Mar 26, 2016 • 12:11:59pm

re: #328 A Cranky One

A number of years ago, as part of a company supported initiative, my department at work adopted an inner city Chicago school. Volunteers provided tutoring, helped the schools improve their facilities by donating surplussed computer equipment, etc.

As part of that effort, we provided a summer internship for one of the students. Rather than a make-work project, we put him to work creating simulations of operator actions for a human factors study.

When the internship was over, I hauled a bunch of equipment to the school to give a demonstration to other students at the school, showing what the intern had done. I noted that he’d learned more in 3 months than most kids learn in a year or two of computer classes at the school. The kid was worked really hard and came through in spectacular fashion.

After the demonstration/talk, I was startled at the number of kids who approached me asking how they could get involved in a similar program. They weren’t put off by knowing they’d have to work hard and show initiative; they just wanted an opportunity.

I wonder how much better off the state would be if only those kids had been given more opportunity and support.

But let’s criticize the teachers who worked under difficult conditions as greedy and selfish. That will fix the state’s problems. Right, Republicans?

Oh and the kid who did the internship? Company offered a scholarship and he eventually ended up with a job there. Last I heard he was doing quite well.

Good story, Cranky: and one which could probably be found being repeated by “conservatives” all over the Internet. Except that their version usually ends with the local gang members breaking into the school and stealing all the equipment to sell for drugs and guns.

374

Blind Frog Belly White Mar 26, 2016 • 12:26:51pm

re: #371 BadgerB

I find the most useful way of looking at things is to understand that Conservatism in every era is about protecting the current power structure, whereas Liberalism is about creating an equitable power structure.

Conservatives believe that things were better at some point in the past, and that things will be better in the future if only we can replicate that earlier time. Liberals believe that things will be better in the future if we can make them better for everyone.

375

CuriousLurker Mar 26, 2016 • 12:33:47pm

re: #369 Blind Frog Belly White

I have to agree. I know it’s far-fetched, but let’s say we had an Islamist candidate who was running on a Sharia platform that contradicted the foundations our Constitution by seeking to take rights away from large groups of people, register Jews & Christians as dhimmis who need to pay extra taxes, police locations where atheists & other “undesirables” are known to frequent, etc. Now imagine I announced that despite all that I’m supporting this candidate because, “GO TEAM!”

Yeah. I find it extremely difficult to believe anyone here would consider me a “good person” who merely had a disagreement about “first principals” under those circumstances.

376

retired cynic Mar 26, 2016 • 12:59:41pm

re: #286 Barefoot Grin

I have a pretty good sense of that, I think. I grew up in Champaign, worked in Lafayette for three years, then went to school and worked in Bloomington. I spent a lot of time on I-74 and on roads going through Terre Haute or Crawfordsville going back to CU to see my folks. I could be exaggerating (I’m sure I am), but I know there’s a big difference between central and southern Illinois and I felt the same about Indiana.

I wonder—retired cynic, if you see this, are you still in the CU area?

No, I’m in the west central part of the state, out in the boonies, which I like a lot. I can visit cities up to around 100,000, and that’s plenty enough of that! <Smile>

Spy Auto

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