Speaking at the taping of MSNBC’s town hall that will air tonight, Donald Trump said out loud what most conservative politicians just imply: “There has to be some form of punishment” for women who have abortions.

And that’s not all. He openly said that when abortion is outlawed, he was OK with women going to back alley abortionists. Seriously. This is what he actually said.

If there’s anything good about this horrible human being’s candidacy, it’s that he’s flushing all these bad right wing ideas out into the open instead of dancing around the issues with code words and dog whistles.

Host Chris Matthews presses Trump on anti-abortion position, repeatedly asking him, “Should abortion be punished? This is not something you can dodge.”

“Look, people in certain parts of the Republican Party, conservative Republicans, would say, ‘Yes, it should,’” Trump answers.

“How about you?” Matthews asks.

“I would say it’s a very serious problem and it’s a problem we have to decide on. Are you going to send them to jail?” Trump says.

“I’m asking you,” Matthews says.

“I am pro-life,” Trump says.

“How do you actually ban abortion?” Matthews asks.

“Well, you go back to a position like they had where they would perhaps go to illegal places but we have to ban it,” Trump says.

Matthews then presses Trump on if he believes there should be punishment for abortion if it were illegal.

“There has to be some form of punishment,” Trump says.

“For the woman?” Matthews says; “Yeah,” Trump says, nodding.

And what’s more…

.@hardball_chris asked if he thought a man is also responsible under the law for abortions. Trump: “I would say no” https://t.co/I83enruUKr

— Ali Vitali (@alivitali) March 30, 2016

Right wingers on Twitter and Free Republic are now trying to claim this report is false — but here’s a video clip:

Here’s video for the Trump truthers who think @MSNBC made the whole thing up: https://t.co/RmjLaXK9GU pic.twitter.com/y65YdgpUom

— Matt Wilstein (@TheMattWilstein) March 30, 2016