New Nonpartisan Study Concludes Sanders’ Economic Plan Increases Federal Debt by $18T

Meanwhile, back in the real world…
Politics • Views: 59,949

Well now, this certainly seems like an issue that people ought to pay attention to; the Associated Press has a report on a new study released today by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute Health Policy Center, showing that Bernie Sanders’ economic plans would increase the federal deficit by at least $18 trillion.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Bernie Sanders’ tax and spending proposals would provide new levels of health and education benefits for American families, but they’d also blow an $18-trillion hole in federal deficits, piling on so much debt they would damage the economy.

[…]

The bottom line: Sanders would raise taxes by more than $15 trillion over 10 years, with most of that paid by upper-income earners. But his proposed government-run health care system, along with free undergraduate college, enhanced Social Security, family and medical leave, and other new programs, would spend far more, adding $18 trillion to federal debt over a decade.

Previous studies have come up with similar numbers, but the Sanders campaign just brushed them off as “flawed.” This one comes from two well-regarded nonpartisan think tanks, and may be a little more difficult for him to disregard.

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641 comments
1
I Would Prefer Not To  May 9, 2016 • 10:20:37am

It’s only money.

2
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 10:21:06am
3
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 10:21:22am

Math certainly doesn’t seem to like Bernie

4
The Vicious Babushka  May 9, 2016 • 10:21:34am

BUT BUT BUT HOW TEH OTHER COUNTRIES DO THIS!!!!!1!!!

5
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 10:21:39am

In an ideal world, Bernie would be my candidate. But then again, in an ideal world, we wouldn’t need a Bernie to come along and fix the problems that we wouldn’t have…

6
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 10:22:33am

18 trillion - 15 trillion = 3 trillion.

7
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 9, 2016 • 10:24:05am

re: #1 I Would Prefer Not To

It’s only money.

we can just print more…

8
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 10:24:06am

That should drop his approval numbers a point or two, There are Dem’s that worry about the Debt.

9
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 10:24:28am

re: #2 darthstar

Wow…they don’t like negative tweets.

10
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 10:24:37am

re: #6 darthstar

18 trillion - 15 trillion = 3 trillion.

I know reading the article is hard, since it says things you don’t like, but I might recommend it.

All told, the Sanders health care plan would cost about $32 trillion over 10 years.

11
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 10:24:39am

Well, that’s not particularly surprising.

All the GOP plans are tax cuts and burden shifting endeavors that only generate massive amounts of debt with nothing on the other side of the ledger except wishful thinking that the rich will suddenly trickle down their wealth on everyone else generating new revenue and magically raising all boats.

In contrast, Sanders’ position generates a significant amount of revenue, but spends even more of it on social programs resulting in an unsustainable mix. I applaud his idea of trying to expand health and education to all but it’s not workable without even more taxes across an even wider tax base (meaning hitting everyone from the middle class on up) - and you’d probably have to expand the definition of middle class to folks who’d think that they’re not middle class at all.

It just isn’t realistic to try and do all those things when most Americans are incrementalist in their nature when it comes to national politics. And it isn’t realistic when you run the numbers.

12
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 10:25:25am

re: #6 darthstar

18 trillion - 15 trillion = 3 trillion.

If you read the whole article…

The bottom line: Sanders would raise taxes by more than $15 trillion over 10 years, with most of that paid by upper-income earners. But his proposed government-run health care system, along with free undergraduate college, enhanced Social Security, family and medical leave, and other new programs, would spend far more, adding $18 trillion to federal debt over a decade.

13
The Vicious Babushka  May 9, 2016 • 10:26:48am
14
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 10:27:23am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

If you read the whole article…

So in reality, it’s $33 trillion - $15 trillion = $18 trillion. OUCH.

15
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 10:28:44am

re: #14 thedopefishlives

Roughly a $1.8 trillion shortfall each year for 10 years. That’s a huge amount of shortfall by any measure.

That’d more than double the deficit from its current levels.

16
William Lewis  May 9, 2016 • 10:29:16am

re: #4 The Vicious Babushka

BUT BUT BUT HOW TEH OTHER COUNTRIES DO THIS!!!!!1!!!

By not spending way way way too much on the Military - Industrial Complex?

17
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 10:29:22am
18
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 10:29:34am

re: #15 lawhawk

Roughly a $1.8 trillion shortfall each year for 10 years. That’s a huge amount of shortfall by any measure.

That’d more than double the deficit from its current levels.

I’m sure that will help him continue to poll well against Trump.

//

19
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 10:29:57am
20
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 10:31:14am
21
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 10:31:47am
Bernie Sanders’ economic plans would increase the federal deficit by at least $18 trillion.

No wonder the Republicans want to run against him.

22
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 10:32:25am

re: #17 Dr. Matt

Embedded Image

$18 trillion in Chipotle burritos works out to…

23
ramex  May 9, 2016 • 10:33:42am

They do do this in other countries and make it work, but similar to what Lawhawk said, the burden is carried by many more than those country’s top earners. Pretty much everyone pays a deeper cut, which I kind of think of as rent for living in such luxurious conditions. We have a lot of people in this country who think the United States is the greatest nation on Earth, exceptional even, and they are proud to be Americans, but don’t make them pay to live here in this hellhole of opportunity!

Once, when I was in Norway, I was talking to a young man who was going to the university there in Oslo, I suppose it was. His education was free. His rent was being subsidized. He was drunk on an awful fruity syrup he and his flatmates fermented themselves, and he said to me, “If you are born in Norway, then you are pretty much a success at life.” His words stuck with me, and I truly want everyone born in America to have a much better chance at being a success in life than they currently have. That said, I am not feeling the Bern. Nope, not even remotely.

24
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 10:33:59am

How many $27 donations would you have to fork over to reach $18 Trillion?

25
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 10:34:56am

But but but … the birdie …

26
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 10:35:39am

re: #25 Nyet

But but but … the birdie …

…doesn’t pay taxes.

27
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 10:36:03am
28
ramex  May 9, 2016 • 10:36:25am

re: #26 jaunte

We’ll tax the hell out of those free-loading birds!

29
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 10:37:57am

And this is why we keep talking about theory vs. practice when it comes to Sanders.

30
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 10:39:33am

re: #25 Nyet

But but but … the birdie …

31
Kent Dorfman  May 9, 2016 • 10:41:22am

Someone lost their puppy:

Our source explained: “Ozzy is in a hotel somewhere and has taken his credit cards and some money with him.

“But he is not brilliant on his own and is a bit like a puppy — he goes missing but then usually turns up sooner or later.”

Friends fear Ozzy, who has battled alcohol and drugs, could fall off the wagon.

32
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 10:42:19am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

$18 trillion in Chipotle burritos works out to…

I’ve got a free coupon for mine, so don’t count me.

RBS

33
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 10:42:57am

re: #32 Reality Based Steve

I’ve got a free coupon for mine, so don’t count me.

RBS

That was a sidewise reference to Berniebros being clones of the Paulbots, who are notorious for their legal-marijuana schtick.

34
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 10:43:06am

REVEALED!!!

Barney Frank is now a “Wall Street banker.”

35
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 10:43:41am

Wut?

36
MsJ  May 9, 2016 • 10:44:52am

re: #9 darthstar

Wow…they don’t like negative tweets.

[Embedded content]

I was arguing with a complete Twitidiot concerning business (he is a Too Big To Fail illiterate who which he feels that not just banks but businesses should be broken up if they become Too Big) and I used Comcast as the example for a corporation synonymous with bad customer service - that it’s not just banks who give shit customer service - and Comcast tweeted back at me to contact them to resolve whatever my issue was.

I am not a Comcast customer but they’ve shot themselves in the foot at this point so many times they’d need to change their name to get away from their bad reputation.

37
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 10:45:08am

He’s changed his opinion on who he wanted to be married to at least a couple of times.

38
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 10:45:35am

re: #34 jaunte

Barney Frank is now a “Wall Street banker.”

He is not a Bernie fan, but to call him a “Wall Street Banker” shows a great deal of cluelessness.

39
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 10:47:01am

re: #37 jaunte

He’s changed his opinion on who he wanted to be married to at least a couple of times.

as soon as “new information” made itself available…

40
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 10:47:23am

re: #20 Dr. Matt

This is what a Donald Trump America will look like:
Arkansas man planned to hang 7 mayors over Common Core and overthrow US with ‘Christian army’

I’m not quite sure that this individual falls squarely into the “Criminal Mastermind” category….

“Defendant has an extensive criminal history involving the possession of firearms. In addition to his three previous convictions involving firearms, Defendant has admitted that he was impermissibly in possession of a firearm on the day of his arrest,” the order stated.
During depositions, Bryan admitted to placing ads in a local paper seeking $23 million to raise a Christian army to overthrow the U.S. government.

Yea, not exactly in the Dr. Evil category.

RBS
Who is checking Craigslist and Thrifty Nickle for any gigs to overthrow the Govt.

41
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 10:47:41am

re: #37 jaunte

He’s changed his opinion on who he wanted to be married to at least a couple of times.

That makes him a better husband! Open minded! New information!

42
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 10:47:47am

re: #34 jaunte

We’re just in pure desperation territory now. Attacking Barney Frank.

43
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 10:48:36am

re: #6 darthstar

18 trillion - 15 trillion = 3 trillion.

Yeah, I think they knew that. It’s more like 15 Trillion in new tax revenues - 33 Trillion in new spending = -18 Trillion.

I

44
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 10:49:12am
an anti-Sanders icon

Are there any among his Senate colleagues that could be described as “pro-Sanders icons?”

45
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 10:49:14am
46
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 10:49:16am

re: #41 wrenchwench

That makes him a better husband! Open minded! New Perkier information!

FIFY

47
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 10:50:21am

Just like the snake and scorpion, she just can’t help herself.

Sarah Palin Sabotages Trump’s Campaigns By Trashing His Key Attack On Hillary Clinton

“But I think, for the most part, Americans are concerned about things like who will be able to appoint the next Supreme Court justices, which will affect an entire generation coming up. I think that’s what people are concerned about, much more so than Bill Clinton’s obvious indiscretions, and Donald Trump having been divorced a couple of times, but owning up to it.”

This IS NOT the way to get that veep gig you so badly want Sarah.

48
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 10:50:48am
49
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 10:51:30am

re: #40 Reality Based Steve

“Defendant has an extensive criminal history involving the possession of firearms. In addition to his three previous convictions involving firearms

How can this be?

WHAT ABOUT THE 2ND AMENDMENT?!?!?!?!?!??! ITS NOT CRIMINAL ILLEGAL TO OWN THE FIREARM GUNS!!!!!1

50
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 10:51:53am

re: #47 Bubblehead II

Just like the snake and scorpion, she just can’t help herself.

Sarah Palin Sabotages Trump’s Campaigns By Trashing His Key Attack On Hillary Clinton

“But I think, for the most part, Americans are concerned about things like who will be able to appoint the next Supreme Court justices, which will affect an entire generation coming up. I think that’s what people are concerned about, much more so than Bill Clinton’s obvious indiscretions, and Donald Trump having been divorced a couple of times, but owning up to it.”

This IS NOT the way to get that veep gig you so badly want Sarah.

Best way to do that is for her to keep her damn mouth shut. Though a number of right-wing thugs I knew years ago were so vocal about being against a lady VP when it was McCain-Palin that I doubt she’d have a prayer even if she wasn’t a damned fool.

51
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 10:53:14am

re: #45 Kragar

[Embedded content]

An upding for you and 100,000 updings for that lady.

52
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 10:55:00am
53
Jenner7  May 9, 2016 • 10:56:52am

re: #52 Kragar

Wha…hahahahaha…..wh….hahahaha….

WHAT?

Oh my…that’s funny.

54
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 10:57:02am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

You now owe me for 30 seconds of my life. ////

RBS

55
MsJ  May 9, 2016 • 10:58:37am

re: #52 Kragar

56
Jenner7  May 9, 2016 • 11:00:22am

Okay, procrastinating done, gotta go clean house. BBL.

57
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:00:31am

re: #52 Kragar

Doesn’t this person know better than to get his scoops from Rage Furby?

/

58
withak  May 9, 2016 • 11:01:40am

I’m not sure if this helps or harms Christie’s chances at Trump-Veep:

Trump picks NJ Governor Christie to head transition team

59
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:02:32am

re: #58 withak

I’m not sure if this helps or harms Christie’s chances at Trump-Veep:

Trump picks NJ Governor Christie to head transition team

throwing him a bone. a meaty one, though…

60
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 11:02:37am

re: #54 Reality Based Steve

You now owe me for 30 seconds of my life. ////

RBS

FTFY.

Kragar owes me one chocolate donut.

61
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:02:56am

re: #58 withak

I’m not sure if this helps or harms Christie’s chances at Trump-Veep:

Trump picks NJ Governor Christie to head transition team

Don’t candidates usually wait till after winning the general election to announce their transition team?

62
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:04:01am

re: #61 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Don’t candidates usually wait till after winning the general election to announce their transition team?

or picking their VP candidate?

63
A Mom Anon  May 9, 2016 • 11:04:57am

I am now surrounded by Barry Loudermilk(a candidate for GA’s senate seat I believe) and Trump signs. Help. Me. Please. Send Sanity. Anything would help. You too can help send a Liberal to summer camp. Please, give all you can. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

(I will not put snark tags on that. Nope.)

64
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:07:31am

A trillion here, a trillion there… pretty soon you’re talking about real money!

65
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:07:45am

re: #63 A Mom Anon

I am now surrounded by Barry Loudermilk(a candidate for GA’s senate seat I believe) and Trump signs. Help. Me. Please. Send Sanity. Anything would help. You too can help send a Liberal to summer camp. Please, give all you can. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

(I will not put snark tags on that. Nope.)

Sorry, I feel for ya.

66
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 11:07:50am

re: #60 lawhawk

You’ll have to make do with this.

67
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 11:09:30am

re: #58 withak

I’m not sure if this helps or harms Christie’s chances at Trump-Veep:

Trump picks NJ Governor Christie to head transition team

68
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:10:13am

re: #63 A Mom Anon

I am now surrounded by Barry Loudermilk(a candidate for GA’s senate seat I believe) and Trump signs. Help. Me. Please. Send Sanity. Anything would help. You too can help send a Liberal to summer camp. Please, give all you can. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

(I will not put snark tags on that. Nope.)

I’d recommend the Adult Space Camp at the Rocket Museum in Huntsville, AL. I may do this sooner than later. spacecamp.com

RBS

69
CuriousLurker  May 9, 2016 • 11:10:32am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

70
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 11:12:07am

re: #61 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Don’t candidates usually wait till after winning the general election to announce their transition team?

Yes. Yes they do.

He’s already treating the election as a foregone conclusion.

I’m figuring that Joe the Plumber might be willing to be his VP. Palin might be press secretary. Christie angles for AG, but might go for chief of staff (aka the Gimp).

We’d perhaps be looking at the most incompetent bunch of people to ever be considered for running the nation in our history. Ahistorical. Amoral. And lacking on every measure of character and judgment.

71
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:12:32am

re: #60 lawhawk

FTFY.

Kragar owes me one chocolate donut.

You can keep 1/3 of the donut as a contingency fee and send me the other 2/3rds.

RBS

72
CuriousLurker  May 9, 2016 • 11:12:45am

re: #61 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Don’t candidates usually wait till after winning the general election to announce their transition team?

Maybe he thinks that’s what being more presidential means. I wonder if Melania is already consulting with an interior decorator and choosing new china. //

73
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:13:12am

Trump ignorance spreading.

74
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:13:43am

Bad paste, sorry. Reload.

75
petesh  May 9, 2016 • 11:14:03am

re: #42 Charles Johnson

We’re just in pure desperation territory now. Attacking Barney Frank.

[Embedded content]

I thought that was a joke until I saw it came from Sirota. Then I still half-thought it was a joke until he doubled down. Now I just think it’s … funny. Does that mean it IS a joke because it wasn’t a joke? I be confoozicatered.

76
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:15:03am

Debt is already 18 trillion. This number supposed to scare me?

77
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 11:15:43am

re: #75 petesh

I thought that was a joke until I saw it came from Sirota. Then I still half-thought it was a joke until he doubled down. Now I just think it’s … funny. Does that mean it IS a joke because it wasn’t a joke? I be confoozicatered.

I think it means Sirota is a joke.

78
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 11:16:10am

re: #73 jaunte

Trump ignorance spreading.

So, if we assume that what they say is true, we’re the highest taxed nation, and yet can’t do universal healthcare or free college like Germany. Maybe we need to cut back defense spending.

Edited to add “if we assume that what they say is true” so no one is confused that I actually believe them.

79
MsJ  May 9, 2016 • 11:16:30am

re: #77 wrenchwench

I think it means Sirota is a joke.

Sirota is a joke.

80
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:17:15am

re: #11 lawhawk

Well, that’s not particularly surprising.

All the GOP plans are tax cuts and burden shifting endeavors that only generate massive amounts of debt with nothing on the other side of the ledger except wishful thinking that the rich will suddenly trickle down their wealth on everyone else generating new revenue and magically raising all boats.

In contrast, Sanders’ position generates a significant amount of revenue, but spends even more of it on social programs resulting in an unsustainable mix. I applaud his idea of trying to expand health and education to all but it’s not workable without even more taxes across an even wider tax base (meaning hitting everyone from the middle class on up) - and you’d probably have to expand the definition of middle class to folks who’d think that they’re not middle class at all.

It just isn’t realistic to try and do all those things when most Americans are incrementalist in their nature when it comes to national politics. And it isn’t realistic when you run the numbers.

One of the biggest problems with Sanders’ proposals is that it would be a huge shift of costs away from anyone currently paying for health insurance, whether that’s individual paying for their own or receiving it from their employer as part of compensation. ALL of that cost shifts to the Federal Government, something like $3 Trillion annually.

That has to be paid for somehow, and yes, there may be considerable savings from Single Payer - it could hardly be LESS efficient than what we have now. But that still has to be paid for.

What it would require would be an enormous change in how we view taxes. Taxes on everyone would have to rise, though there would be compensating cuts in expenditures elsewhere. For example, your company might be paying, say, $16,000 a year for health insurance on your family now. So, either that company now pays that much in taxes, or your income increases that much then it gets taxed back to leave you at basically the same place.

That’s healthcare. But Sanders is proposing a lot more expenditures.

81
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:18:45am

A real socialist would confiscate the oil companies.

82
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:19:14am

re: #72 CuriousLurker

Maybe he thinks that’s what being more presidential means. I wonder if Melania is already consulting with an interior decorator and choosing new china. //

WHY ARE THE OBAMAS STILL IN THE WHITE HOUSE!?!?!??!?!?

83
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:20:02am

re: #79 MsJ

Sirota is a joke.

Sirota is someone who must really live in a bubble.

84
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:20:24am

re: #82 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

WHY ARE THE OBAMAS STILL IN THE WHITE HOUSE!?!?!??!?!?

In before the “Obama staff stole all the “T”s off the computer keyboards” stories.

RBS

85
Chez Ko Pe  May 9, 2016 • 11:22:01am

re: #66 Kragar

Beautiful.
Batman: “Ungh!! If…I only…had…more prep time…”

86
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 11:22:25am

re: #83 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Sirota is someone who must really live in a bubble.

HE’S A HUGE STAR!!

87
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 11:22:39am
88
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 11:23:26am

re: #78 Belafon

So, we’re the highest taxed nation, and yet can’t do universal healthcare or free college like Germany. Maybe we need to cut back defense spending.

Except that we’re not the highest taxed nation. Not by a long shot.

And a more complete analysis of including all taxes (not just federal taxes) still finds the US taxes are lower than many other OEDC countries.

89
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 11:24:31am

re: #87 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Have you gotten your check yet?

90
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:24:48am

re: #88 lawhawk

Except that we’re not the highest taxed nation. Not by a long shot.

[Embedded content]

And a more complete analysis of including all taxes (not just federal taxes) still finds the US taxes are lower than many other OEDC countries.

Yea, but facts like totally destroy the narrative, man.

RBS

91
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 11:24:59am

re: #88 lawhawk

Except that we’re not the highest taxed nation. Not by a long shot.

And a more complete analysis of including all taxes (not just federal taxes) still finds the US taxes are lower than many other OEDC countries.

I know. I was just going with their assumption that we are, and yet we still can’t do the right things right.

92
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 11:25:27am
93
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 11:25:31am
94
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:25:34am
Paid by the finance industry while overseeing the DNC platform?

Sirota’s rules: all DNC influencers must be unemployed, for purity.

95
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 11:25:48am
96
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:26:12am

I wonder if Sanders supporters think it is possible to work in [industry X] and not be rotten to the core. I don’t love all the money we’re spending on the Littoral Combat Ships, but I know that most of the folks at Austal and Lockheed Martin are just poor working stiffs like the rest of us, handling their professional tasks because it’s their job. I don’t reject their worldviews and their lifestyles and their experiences out of hand because I disagree with Congressional budgeting.

97
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:26:13am

Are you feeling the BERN!?!?!?

98
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:26:40am

re: #95 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Well, in all honesty, you are well acquainted with strings….

99
withak  May 9, 2016 • 11:27:14am

re: #95 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It’s quite amusing when anonymous Twitter accounts accuse people with real, verifiable information and names in their profiles of being puppets…

100
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:27:23am

Much like Trump, Sanders’ campaign’s tactical approach seems to be to double down on the support of a strict minority of voters. Because fuck all those other guys.

S-m-r-t.

101
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:27:36am

re: #95 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Getting the Zionist checks and the Soros Checks and the Hillary Troll checks and now Dem Establishment checks - Dude, doing your taxes must be a bitch!

102
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:27:45am

re: #96 Testy Toad T

People that work at lockheed could build schools instead.

103
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 11:27:53am

re: #96 Testy Toad T

I wonder if Sanders supporters think it is possible to work in [industry X] and not be rotten to the core. I don’t love all the money we’re spending on the Littoral Combat Ships, but I know that most of the folks at Austal and Lockheed Martin are just poor working stiffs like the rest of us, handling their professional tasks because it’s their job. I don’t reject their worldviews and their lifestyles and their experiences out of hand because I disagree with Congressional budgeting.

These guys think that any business with “Inc.” after the name is the epitome of evil, even if the company only has two shareholders who are family members.

104
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:28:24am

re: #98 Reality Based Steve

Well, in all honesty, you are well acquainted with strings….

Here follows a tasteless guitarist joke:

What kind of strings did Curt Cobain use?

Last I heard, he was using a 12-gauge!

105
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:29:29am

re: #96 Testy Toad T

I wonder if Sanders supporters think it is possible to work in [industry X] and not be rotten to the core. I don’t love all the money we’re spending on the Littoral Combat Ships, but I know that most of the folks at Austal and Lockheed Martin are just poor working stiffs like the rest of us, handling their professional tasks because it’s their job. I don’t reject their worldviews and their lifestyles and their experiences out of hand because I disagree with Congressional budgeting.

Well, you just KNOW anyone on any BoD is just lighting plutocratic cigars with $100 bills while sipping Dom Perignon out of golden goblets between bites of Beluga caviar, right?
///

106
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 11:30:23am

re: #104 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Here follows a tasteless guitarist joke:

What kind of strings did Curt Cobain use?

Last I heard, he was using a 12-gauge!

*WHACK!*

107
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:30:54am

re: #102 TK-421

People that work at lockheed could build schools instead.

For free.

108
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 11:31:23am

re: #95 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Maybe David will put you in his new show? If he did it in actual puppet form that’d be great.

109
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 11:31:34am

Protocols of the Wise Elders of the Dem Establishment.

110
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:31:42am

Why for free? Their talent is only valuable when building military equipment?

111
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:32:22am

re: #108 b.d.

He does intentional comedy?

112
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 11:32:33am

re: #102 TK-421

People that work at lockheed could build schools instead.

I thought the former employees of outlawed health insurance companies were going to do that?

113
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:32:48am

re: #110 TK-421

Why for free? Their talent is only valuable when building military equipment?

Because there aren’t that many jobs building schools, and people are already doing them?

114
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 11:33:09am

re: #104 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Here follows a tasteless guitarist joke:

What kind of strings did Curt Cobain use?

Last I heard, he was using a 12-gauge!

You have to wait until after September-ish for this. At that point the 22.3 year period will be up.

urbandictionary.com

115
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:33:26am

re: #107 Blind Frog Belly White

For free.

It pays in exposure, karma, and cute little tweety birds landing on your cardboard hut.

116
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:33:31am

Seriously, though the problem is not that we don’t have schools. It’s what we’re not doing in them.

117
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:33:34am

The point is they could build other things.

118
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:33:58am

re: #117 TK-421

The point is they could build other things.

Sounds good. Sign me up.

You’re buying, right…?

119
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:34:02am

re: #86 b.d.

HE’S A HUGE STAR!!

Uh….

Whut the?

120
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:34:10am

Obamacare is expensive. Might as well get rid of it.

121
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:34:39am

re: #115 Testy Toad T

It pays in exposure, karma, and cute little tweety birds landing on your cardboard hut.

The Older Boy’s Girlfriend is an animator. She appreciated the xkcd ‘Exposure’ cartoon, though it did send her on a rant….

122
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 11:34:41am

re: #111 jaunte

He does intentional comedy?

I have no idea, he might have an improv show on Democracy Now! or Russia Today as far as I know

123
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:00am

re: #118 Testy Toad T

Yes I am buying, already.

124
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:06am

re: #120 TK-421

Obamacare is expensive. Might as well get rid of it.

so is education, enforcing health, safety and environmental regulations and managing public lands.

125
Eric The Fruit Bat  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:32am

re: #66 Kragar

…or this….

126
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:46am

re: #117 TK-421

The point is they could build other things.

Ah.

127
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:52am

re: #109 Nyet

Protocols of the Wise Elders of the Dem Establishment.

One of my favorites. I have the hard cover, paper back and Kindle versions.

128
nines09  May 9, 2016 • 11:35:59am

re: #77 wrenchwench
Hey….
I thought about what you said about Ray Davies the other day. I was a huge fan of The Kinks, thought they never got their proper due. Influenced me both as a person and musician. So I was watching ACL the other night and Courtney Barnett was on. I liked her sound, and the rambling style. So she did a cover. Heavy Heart. Said it was her favorite song. Aussie act called You Are I wrote it. Listen to this first Courtney Barnett “Heavy Heart” (You Am I cover)

So I listen to it, let it rattle around in my head…..It’s got me. So I then look up who did it. Now if this guy doesn’t look quite a bit like the younger Ray, and he has a vibe similar….Maybe just me? Anyhoo. You Am I - Heavy Heart

First I heard of them. I like finding stuff like this. Hope you enjoy it.

129
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 11:36:10am
130
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 11:37:13am

re: #126 Blind Frog Belly White

Also, the collection of aging warehouses they call “schools” are in sore need of technological upgrades.

131
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 11:37:46am
132
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:37:47am

re: #129 Kragar

[Embedded content]

But Trump said, “I brott MILLYUNZ of noo voturs intada process!”

133
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:38:38am

re: #132 Blind Frog Belly White

But Trump said, “I brott MILLYUNZ of noo voturs intada process!”

That he did. People who would vote for Trump and nobody else.

134
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 11:39:37am

re: #68 Reality Based Steve

I’d recommend the Adult Space Camp at the Rocket Museum in Huntsville, AL. I may do this sooner than later. spacecamp.com

RBS

I did the week-long version for older teenagers when I was 17 and it was the best thing ever.

I got to do a short, very supervised version of the SCUBA training they do with the astronauts to simulate working in zero gravity. So awesome.

135
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:40:08am

Remember that warehouse fire near my neighborhood in Houston a few days ago?
Here’s what the contents of the warehouse (pesticides and fuel additives) did to a local bayou:

“The red additive is non-water-soluble and has been getting pushed around by contract clean-up crews downstream to stop the spread. But contractors cannot, the city says, catch the pesticide that also made its way into the same drainage channels, as it dissolves in water.”

136
Eclectic Cyborg  May 9, 2016 • 11:43:02am

If Donald Trump well and truly wants to torpedo his campaign he should name Palin as his VP pick.

137
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 11:43:03am

re: #131 lawhawk

WTF is “Ebola Semen”?

138
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:43:52am

re: #137 Jack Burton

WTF is “Ebola Semen”?

A white American heterosexual’s worst nightmare…

139
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:43:58am

re: #134 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I did the week-long version for older teenagers when I was 17 and it was the best thing ever.

I got to do a short, very supervised version of the SCUBA training they do with the astronauts to simulate working in zero gravity. So awesome.

That’s something that some of our divers have done, I haven’t had a chance yet. It would be super cool however.

I go down there about every 3-4 months, there is also a great botanical garden just down the road from it.

RBS

140
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 11:45:32am

re: #128 nines09

Hey….
I thought about what you said about Ray Davies the other day. I was a huge fan of The Kinks, thought they never got their proper due. Influenced me both as a person and musician. So I was watching ACL the other night and Courtney Barnett was on. I liked her sound, and the rambling style. So she did a cover. Heavy Heart. Said it was her favorite song. Aussie act called You Are I wrote it. Listen to this first [Embedded content]

First I heard of them. I like finding stuff like this. Hope you enjoy it.

Great finds! Very Kinky!

141
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 11:47:07am

re: #137 Jack Burton

A Cis Alt-Indie Band?

142
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 11:47:18am

re: #120 TK-421

Obamacare is expensive. Might as well get rid of it.

Um. I think the point is not - don’t do things that cost money - but - do things that cost money in an incremental manner so that economic adjustments can be made responsibly.

143
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:47:25am

re: #133 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

That he did. People who would vote for Trump and nobody else.

I heard someone who does polling analysis say that he’d need to check the actual voter rolls to determine whether they really were NEW voters, or just folks who only had voted in the Generals hitherto.

144
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:47:40am

re: #132 Blind Frog Belly White

But Trump said, “I brott MILLYUNZ of noo voturs intada process!”

That ties into the new “Monster Voter” meme out there….

The “Monster Vote” is the voting bloc of those who had turned away from politics; those how gave up, and/or just never voted in the first place. This video was/is prescient in retrospect when you consider the record-breaking volume of primary voters who have turned out to support Donald Trump.
SNIP
Records are being broken, but no-one is discussing why. Donald Trump is not just getting republicans, independent and some democrat voters - He’s turning out the monster vote. Venues with 10,000…. 15,000… 20,000,… 30,000,… even 40,000 are being filled in a PRIMARY contest.

Since DoNotLink seems to have gone away, the original source seems to be The Conservative Treehouse.

RBS

145
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 11:48:02am

re: #139 Reality Based Steve

That’s something that some of our divers have done, I haven’t had a chance yet. It would be super cool however.

I go down there about every 3-4 months, there is also a great botanical garden just down the road from it.

RBS

There is something really incredible about balancing a concrete cube on your pinky.

146
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 11:48:56am

re: #10 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I know reading the article is hard, since it says things you don’t like, but I might recommend it.

Touché. But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

Yes we can’t.

147
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 11:49:45am

re: #143 Blind Frog Belly White

I heard someone who does polling analysis say that he’d need to check the actual voter rolls to determine whether they really were NEW voters, or just folks who only had voted in the Generals hitherto.

I noticed that this primary has gotten a lot more attention from a lot more Americans than previous ones. And some of them have even started to figure out the US primary system. I will be trying to explain it in my English class on Wednesday, as I have never seen or heard of anything like a primary election here in Europe

148
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 11:49:46am

re: #145 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There is something really incredible about balancing a concrete cube on your pinky.

Me, I prefer to smash one with the edge of my fist, but what can you do.

149
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:49:52am

re: #144 Reality Based Steve

That ties into the new “Monster Voter” meme out there….

The “Monster Vote” is the voting bloc of those who had turned away from politics; those how gave up, and/or just never voted in the first place. This video was/is prescient in retrospect when you consider the record-breaking volume of primary voters who have turned out to support Donald Trump.
SNIP
Records are being broken, but no-one is discussing why. Donald Trump is not just getting republicans, independent and some democrat voters - He’s turning out the monster vote. Venues with 10,000…. 15,000… 20,000,… 30,000,… even 40,000 are being filled in a PRIMARY contest.

Since DoNotLink seems to have gone away, the original source seems to be The Conservative Treehouse.

RBS

If that were true, you’d think he’d be less widely reviled.

150
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 11:49:59am

Yesterday V had me build a base for a new bed, and drag a new big assed queen sized mattress upstairs. Today all I can do is sleep.

Damn, I’m old.

151
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 11:54:06am

re: #135 jaunte

Remember that warehouse fire near my neighborhood in Houston a few days ago?
Here’s what the contents of the warehouse (pesticides and fuel additives) did to a local bayou:

[Embedded content]

Fill-er-up.

152
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:54:26am

re: #146 darthstar

Touché. But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

Yes we can’t.

Anything that isn’t literally impossible is possible. The article just points out how much it would cost.

153
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:54:40am

re: #151 b_sharp

The gas tank is termite-free at last.

154
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 11:55:03am

re: #153 jaunte

The gas tank is termite-free at last.

Yeah, but the lawn is on fire.

155
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 11:55:26am

re: #146 darthstar

Touché. But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

Yes we can’t.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

156
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 11:55:41am

re: #154 thedopefishlives

I’ve called in the fire ants to put it out.

157
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 11:56:01am

re: #146 darthstar

Touché. But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

Yes we can’t.

I love how now people pointing out the potential issues are just not believing hard enough that anything is possible.

We poke fun at the RWNJs because they think their beliefs should trump (haha) reality.

158
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 11:56:12am
159
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 11:57:01am

re: #146 darthstar

But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

C’mon, pull the other one.

160
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 11:57:07am

re: #158 Kragar

A pack of lizard people? Kragar, shut up, man, you’re going to blow our cover!

161
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 11:57:28am

re: #154 thedopefishlives

Yeah, but the lawn is on fire.

but they are such multi-colored sparkly flames.

RBS

162
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 11:57:33am

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

For, but I was 15 years old at the time.

163
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 11:57:58am

re: #157 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I love how now people pointing out the potential issues are just not believing hard enough that anything is possible.

We poke fun at the RWNJs because they think their beliefs should trump (haha) reality.

“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”

With apologies to Adam Savage, who would no doubt have savage (heh) words for the dumbasses actually trying to mentally alter reality.

164
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 11:58:26am

On the other hand, believing anything is possible sure explains why math doesn’t seem to make any difference to some people.

165
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 11:59:47am

re: #159 Testy Toad T

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

C’mon, pull the other one.

There are a bunch of folks who believe anything is possible, like tax rate cuts increasing tax revenues, pumping CO2 into the air without consequence, bombing other countries into loving us, impeaching a President for not being white, and now, consequence-free imposition of exclusionary tariffs.

166
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:00:37pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I remember thinking, and writing, that the Iraq war would piss away all the emotional and physical support the US received from the international community after 9/11 happened.

167
withak  May 9, 2016 • 12:00:38pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I remember being for it, with reservations, because I was fooled by what the administration was telling us about WMD, etc. at the time. Obviously my opinion has shifted since then.

I remember being horrified at the prospect of watching a war on live TV. It was a very busy time for me, with grad school, just having gotten married, etc. I was paying attention as best I could.

Anyone who “doesn’t remember” what their opinion was about a major event like that is either lying, or wasn’t paying attention at the time, in which case we probably should discount whatever opinions they may have on it now.

168
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 12:01:24pm

re: #158 Kragar

I was for it. Thought that Saddam’s human rights violations were sufficient justification (genocidal campaigns against Marsh Arabs & Kurds). The WMD argument? Didn’t need that to convince me that getting rid of Saddam was right thing.

What happened after? A mess of epic proportions.

169
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:01:30pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

If only we had some way of recording our thoughts, and what we say out loud.

170
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:01:44pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

How many lizard people come in a pack? Is a carton of lizard people a better deal?

171
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:02:07pm

re: #165 Blind Frog Belly White

Come to think of it, decreasing tax rates would increase tax revenue in only one situation that I can imagine: If you are so brutally overtaxing people that they are actively leaving or avoiding your country, and by lowering the tax rate, you are encouraging people and/or businesses to migrate to your location. If your tax rates are already competitively low, you will see no such influx from lowering them further.

172
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:02:26pm

re: #170 b_sharp

How many lizard people come in a pack? Is a carton of lizard people a better deal?

Only if you buy it at Costco. Definitely not at the gas station.

173
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:02:44pm

re: #170 b_sharp

How many lizard people come in a pack? Is a carton of lizard people a better deal?

Charles probably gets discount rates, I’d imagine. He buys by the gross.

174
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 12:03:28pm
175
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:03:42pm

re: #152 Blind Frog Belly White

Anything that isn’t literally impossible is possible. The article just points out how much it would cost.

Understood. And I’m okay with that. I don’t expect it would all be implemented on day 1 anyway. But at least we’d start working toward making some, not all, of his ideas a reality. $15 minimum wage will take the next president most of their term to fight for - and may still end up being short of that mark nationally (though places that have implemented it haven’t shriveled and died as of this writing). Free education will require some across the board tax increases (mine too!). Medicare for all will be expensive, but what the fuck’s wrong with shooting for it. I’m willing to give up an aircraft carrier or two to help my neighbor.

And it beats the crap out of just calling it a pipe dream and not striving for progress at all.

176
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 12:04:11pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yep I remember, I was for it I didn’t want to take a chance if they were right about the WMDs.

177
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:04:12pm

re: #171 thedopefishlives

Come to think of it, decreasing tax rates would increase tax revenue in only one situation that I can imagine: If you are so brutally overtaxing people that they are actively leaving or avoiding your country, and by lowering the tax rate, you are encouraging people and/or businesses to migrate to your location. If your tax rates are already competitively low, you will see no such influx from lowering them further.

That’s the thing about the Laffer Curve - the Right always assumes we’re on the downward sloping part of it, so that reducing X will increase Y, yet every time we have cut X, Y has decreased, so we’re clearly on the ascending part of the curve.

178
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:04:45pm

re: #175 darthstar

Understood. And I’m okay with that. I don’t expect it would all be implemented on day 1 anyway. But at least we’d start working toward making some, not all, of his ideas a reality. $15 minimum wage will take the next president most of their term to fight for - and may still end up being short of that mark nationally (though places that have implemented it haven’t shriveled and died as of this writing). Free education will require some across the board tax increases (mine too!). Medicare for all will be expensive, but what the fuck’s wrong with shooting for it. I’m willing to give up an aircraft carrier or two to help my neighbor.

And it beats the crap out of just calling it a pipe dream and not striving for progress at all.

I think they call that last sentence a straw man argument.

179
CuriousLurker  May 9, 2016 • 12:04:48pm
London’s new Muslim mayor foresees Tel Aviv trip

New mayor Sadiq Khan welcomed the possibility of leading a trade delegation to Israel, and stressed the need to improve relations between Jews and Muslims in London, during an interview with The Times of Israel’s new British partner, the Jewish News.

Khan, the first Muslim to head any Western capital city, made the remarks on the same day as attending a Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony, his first official engagement since he took office on Saturday.

“I’ve not even had my first Monday at work to be fair, I’ve had six hours sleep since Wednesday. But I’m keen to make sure I’m the most pro-business mayor we’ve ever had and that means going on trade missions including to Tel Aviv,” he said in the Sunday interview.

As for when exactly he would come to Israel, Khan said, “It took him seven years to get there.” He was referring to Boris Johnson, his mayoral predecessor. […]

timesofisrael.com

So if Khan made a trip to Tel Aviv would that suddenly render it part of the Global Caliphate? I’m sure in some people’s eyes it would. And in other people’s eyes it would make him a Zionist agent out to destroy Islam/Christendom.

Like President Obama, I don’t envy him his new position. Whether he deserves it or not, someone is always going to be criticizing him and inventing conspiracy theories. Hell, that started on the first day with the “ZOMG hijab!!11!” hysteria.

180
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 12:04:56pm

re: #171 thedopefishlives

Come to think of it, decreasing tax rates would increase tax revenue in only one situation that I can imagine: If you are so brutally overtaxing people that they are actively leaving or avoiding your country, and by lowering the tax rate, you are encouraging people and/or businesses to migrate to your location. If your tax rates are already competitively low, you will see no such influx from lowering them further.

There is also the notion that if people are spending their time and effort at avoiding taxes rather than just earning more money, a tax cut might inspire them to hire another engineer rather than another tax accountant.

181
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:05:22pm

re: #177 Blind Frog Belly White

That’s the thing about the Laffer Curve - the Right always assumes we’re on the downward sloping part of it, so that reducing X will increase Y, yet every time we have cut X, Y has decreased, so we’re clearly on the ascending part of the curve.

Curves are hard!

182
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 12:05:35pm

re: #175 darthstar

Understood. And I’m okay with that. I don’t expect it would all be implemented on day 1 anyway. But at least we’d start working toward making some, not all, of his ideas a reality. $15 minimum wage will take the next president most of their term to fight for - and may still end up being short of that mark nationally (though places that have implemented it haven’t shriveled and died as of this writing). Free education will require some across the board tax increases (mine too!). Medicare for all will be expensive, but what the fuck’s wrong with shooting for it. I’m willing to give up an aircraft carrier or two to help my neighbor.

And it beats the crap out of just calling it a pipe dream and not striving for progress at all.

Well, what’s stopping you from implementing the groundswell of voters demanding this that you said was going to help Bernie get this done? I fail to see why these things require Bernie in office to happen, if the demand is there for them - and he seemed convinced the demand was there, because that was his plan for getting things through Congress, as opposed to campaigning for folks downticket who supported his ideas.

183
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:06:12pm

re: #176 Tigger2

Yep I remember, I was for it I didn’t want to take a chance if they were right about the WOMDs.

I was for it because I was in my full-on, right-wing, patriotic-America-Fuck-Yeah mode. Plus I bought the WMD’s story hook, line, and sinker. I’m still ambivalent as to whether I would support it all over again, given another chance. I support my country, my leaders, and my soldiers, and I have a hard time breaking with that tradition. But Iraq especially just seems petty when we look back at it.

184
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:06:16pm

re: #157 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I love how now people pointing out the potential issues are just not believing hard enough that anything is possible.

We poke fun at the RWNJs because they think their beliefs should trump (haha) reality.

Understood. And I will, eventually, welcome our new fiscally conservative overlords. I’m just slower on the uptake.

185
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:06:29pm

re: #146 darthstar

Touché. But believing anything is possible used to be an American value.

Yes we can’t.

Believing anything is possible is an American value. Believing that the easiest way to get to the moon is to cut off your left arm is a delusion. Believing that the American people will take a $15T tax hike and an $1.8T/yr in additional debt, even if the net income were to not change, is completely ignoring how America works.

186
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:06:58pm

re: #180 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is also the notion that if people are spending their time and effort at avoiding taxes rather than just earning more money, a tax cut might inspire them to hire another engineer rather than another tax accountant.

Are avoiding taxes & earning more money mutually exclusive?

187
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:18pm

re: #178 b_sharp

I think they call that last sentence a straw man argument.

Yeah…I know people here aren’t saying we should do nothing. I just don’t see a lot of there there with the candidates.

188
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:22pm

I don’t care about the debt and neither should you. This money added would be offset by a better economy and better quality of life. But I know Bernie Bros are just going to react to this story by pulling out some Clinton conspiracy where everyone who says something negative about their hero is conspiring against them.

189
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:30pm

re: #179 CuriousLurker

the “ZOMG hijab!!11!” hysteria

Did anyone who indulged in that ever admit they made a mistake?

190
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:46pm

re: #181 b_sharp

Curves are hard!

Need some calculus, and that requires algebra and that looks too much like Arabic.

191
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:49pm

re: #176 Tigger2

Yep I remember, I was for it I didn’t want to take a chance if they were right about the WOMDs.

I was just about year out of the USMC at that point, I was all for it back then.

Animal House—“You F’ed up, you trusted us”

192
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:07:59pm

re: #180 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is also the notion that if people are spending their time and effort at avoiding taxes rather than just earning more money, a tax cut might inspire them to hire another engineer rather than another tax accountant.

I’d love to see them quantify that effect, especially in light of the fact (as pointed out by re: #186 b_sharp) that in America especially, dodging taxes and earning more money aren’t mutually exclusive.

193
CuriousLurker  May 9, 2016 • 12:08:08pm

re: #189 jaunte

Did anyone who indulged in that ever admit they made a mistake?

Heh, not that I know of.

194
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 12:08:36pm

re: #193 CuriousLurker

On to the next outrage!

195
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 12:08:42pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

I was for it because I was in my full-on, right-wing, patriotic-America-Fuck-Yeah mode. Plus I bought the WMD’s story hook, line, and sinker. I’m still ambivalent as to whether I would support it all over again, given another chance. I support my country, my leaders, and my soldiers, and I have a hard time breaking with that tradition. But Iraq especially just seems petty when we look back at it.

You have this thinking backwards, supporting the troops doesn’t mean you go where the military wants them to go. They serve YOU. And “supporting the troops” means you don’t want to see thousands dying or getting limbs blown off for very questionable reasons.

196
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 12:08:57pm

re: #186 b_sharp

Are avoiding taxes & earning more money mutually exclusive?

a matter of priorities. I read that General Electric pays almost nothing in taxes and has the largest legal department of any corporation in the world.

which means for them, it is more profitable at the bottom line to hire another lawyer than another engineer or factory worker.

197
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:09:39pm

re: #196 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

a matter of priorities. I read that General Electric pays almost nothing in taxes and has the largest legal department of any corporation in the world.

which means for them, it is more profitable at the bottom line to hire another lawyer than another engineer or factory worker.

GE gets a refund.

198
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:09:50pm

re: #188 Shimshon

I don’t care about the debt and neither should you. This money added would be offset by a better economy and better quality of life. But I know Bernie Bros are just going to react to this story by pulling out some Clinton conspiracy where everyone who says something negative about their hero is conspiring against them.

Holy shit…this is all a conspiracy against Bernie? Now I’m pissed.
/

Seriously…it’s all just part of people helping their team by pointing out flaws in their opponent. I’m sure I’ll pile on when we get to saying negative shit about Trump.

199
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:09:52pm

re: #168 lawhawk

Saddam’s massacres had occurred long before that. There was no ongoing massacre that would have justified military intervention (unlike, say, the situation in Libya). Hence there was no justification whatsoever. As for the mess, it was not only inevitable, it was obviously inevitable.

200
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:09:54pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

I was for it because I was in my full-on, right-wing, patriotic-America-Fuck-Yeah mode. Plus I bought the WMD’s story hook, line, and sinker. I’m still ambivalent as to whether I would support it all over again, given another chance. I support my country, my leaders, and my soldiers, and I have a hard time breaking with that tradition. But Iraq especially just seems petty when we look back at it.

Outside of the American news bubble there were experts suggesting that the US would not be viewed as liberators if they went in and in the confusion factions would rise up and potentially cause a civil war.

201
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 12:10:34pm

If you ask for way, way more than the other party is willing to give you, your worst-case result is not what you might have gotten out of a more measured request.

Your worst-case (and most likely) result is having the other party laugh in your face and tell you to get lost.

202
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 12:11:13pm

re: #197 Belafon

GE gets a refund.

Then those lawyers are sure earning their salt…

203
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:11:16pm

re: #200 b_sharp

Outside of the American news bubble there were experts suggesting that the US would not be viewed as liberators if they went in and in the confusion factions would rise up and potentially cause a civil war.

I think a little more exposure to international media would’ve done me some good. In 2005 I was still just taking baby steps on my journey to the moderate side of the aisle. I wouldn’t have watched the BBC if you’d strapped me to a chair and duct-taped my eyes open.

204
Stanley Sea  May 9, 2016 • 12:11:24pm

re: #189 jaunte

Did anyone who indulged in that ever admit they made a mistake?

If you call a “404” admittance.

205
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:12:09pm

re: #194 jaunte

On to the next outrage!

Ok.

206
Great White Snark  May 9, 2016 • 12:13:40pm

Irony of ironies
Citizens United will empower big donors formerly associated with GOP donations to give to HRC’s campaign big time. LOL

208
A Mom Anon  May 9, 2016 • 12:14:00pm

re: #164 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Or science.

I’ve about had it with Stupid. Lordy. It’s not just politics, it’s everything. I’m not sure if I’ve become smarter or people around me have become just tree stump dumbfuck, but OMG I am about to lose my shit.

209
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:14:07pm

I’m all for dead dictators, but one should always consider the cost.

210
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:14:19pm

re: #198 darthstar

Holy shit…this is all a conspiracy against Bernie? Now I’m pissed.
/

Seriously…it’s all just part of people helping their team by pointing out flaws in their opponent. I’m sure I’ll pile on when we get to saying negative shit about Trump.

Saying negative shit about Trump is different. You can see the shit he’s doing with your eyes closed, and it’s all current.

211
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:14:34pm

re: #208 A Mom Anon

Or science.

I’ve about had it with Stupid. Lordy. It’s not just politics, it’s everything. I’m not sure if I’ve become smarter or people around me have become just tree stump dumbfuck, but OMG I am about to lose my shit.

Both. Both is a valid option.

212
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 12:14:56pm

re: #200 b_sharp

Outside of the American news bubble there were experts suggesting that the US would not be viewed as liberators if they went in and in the confusion factions would rise up and potentially cause a civil war.

The Bush administration didn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni. Anyone paying attention knew it would turn out badly, hence the liberals in America using comparisons to Vietnam. But we were right and they were wrong, and fast forward over a decade and the same people that were wrong are still so confident in their opinions and how wrong the left is.

213
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 12:15:34pm

re: #200 b_sharp

Outside of the American news bubble there were experts suggesting that the US would not be viewed as liberators if they went in and in the confusion factions would rise up and potentially cause a civil war.

Back then I was working 6/12 hrs days about all i had time to do was work and sleep.

214
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:16:15pm

re: #212 Shimshon

The Bush administration didn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni. Anyone paying attention knew it would turn out badly, hence the liberals in America using comparisons to Vietnam. But we were right and they were wrong, and fast forward over a decade and the same people that were wrong are still so confident in their opinions and how wrong the left is.

The left is never right.

215
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:16:16pm

re: #212 Shimshon

The Bush administration didn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni. Anyone paying attention knew it would turn out badly, hence the liberals in America using comparisons to Vietnam. But we were right and they were wrong, and fast forward over a decade and the same people that were wrong are still so confident in their opinions and how wrong the left is.

There are people still alive who think we should have just bombed more in Vietnam.

216
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 9, 2016 • 12:17:37pm

re: #144 Reality Based Steve

That ties into the new “Monster Voter” meme out there….

The “Monster Vote” is the voting bloc of those who had turned away from politics; those how gave up, and/or just never voted in the first place. This video was/is prescient in retrospect when you consider the record-breaking volume of primary voters who have turned out to support Donald Trump.
SNIP
Records are being broken, but no-one is discussing why. Donald Trump is not just getting republicans, independent and some democrat voters - He’s turning out the monster vote. Venues with 10,000…. 15,000… 20,000,… 30,000,… even 40,000 are being filled in a PRIMARY contest.

Since DoNotLink seems to have gone away, the original source seems to be The Conservative Treehouse.

RBS

Once again, conflating (erroneously) rally attendance with actual, you know, votes.

217
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 12:18:18pm

re: #216 Backwoods_Sleuth

Once again, conflating (erroneously) rally attendance with actual, you know, votes.

And conflating “go-check-out-the-spectacle” with “support”.

218
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:20:27pm

re: #214 b_sharp

The left is never right.

What is mind? No matter.
What is matter? Never mind.

219
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  May 9, 2016 • 12:21:50pm

re: #176 Tigger2

Yep I remember, I was for it I didn’t want to take a chance if they were right about the WOMDs.

After 9/11 I wanted the entire ME turned to glass. I admit it. I was for the Iraq war and believed the stuff that turned out to be B.S. but then 2004 rolled around and I discovered news outside of Fox…

220
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:23:31pm

I feels like it’s almost time for another nap.

221
A Mom Anon  May 9, 2016 • 12:23:40pm

1) John Aravosis is a nitwit who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else. Yeah, no one remembers John. Nope.

2) I am one of those liberal hippie commies that was against us going into Iraq from the get go. Afghanistan was a little more “OK” I guess, since the word at the time was that Bin Laden was there and we should try to find his sorry ass. I remember sitting in my living room folding laundry and watching Colin Powell with his vial of fake anthrax on my TV and I began to cry because I knew what the fuck was coming. I wish with all my heart I had been wrong. And then when the “shock and awe” shit started I remember becoming physically sick and crying a lot more. And the whole neighborhood around me started to change. Every show of patriotism was backed with open hostility toward anyone or anything that wasn’t right wing christian enough. It hasn’t become any less mean or nasty either. I live in the South, let’s just say “southern hospitality” is bullshit and leave it there.

222
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 12:24:17pm

re: #215 Belafon

There are people still alive who think we should have just bombed more in Vietnam.

Good point, I hear it often even from new generations. They say the liberals, media, and politicians are to blame, and we just needed to drop more bombs (even though America already had dropped more bombs than all previous wars combined) and then we would have won their hearts and minds!

223
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 12:24:17pm
224
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:24:31pm

re: #175 darthstar

Understood. And I’m okay with that. I don’t expect it would all be implemented on day 1 anyway. But at least we’d start working toward making some, not all, of his ideas a reality. $15 minimum wage will take the next president most of their term to fight for - and may still end up being short of that mark nationally (though places that have implemented it haven’t shriveled and died as of this writing). Free education will require some across the board tax increases (mine too!). Medicare for all will be expensive, but what the fuck’s wrong with shooting for it. I’m willing to give up an aircraft carrier or two to help my neighbor.

And it beats the crap out of just calling it a pipe dream and not striving for progress at all.

Yeah, but to be fair, Clinton isn’t saying you don’t move in that direction. What she’s saying is you move that direction by fighting for every increment and cutting the deals that you need to keep moving the ball.

I don’t get the feeling from Sanders that he appreciates the need for that approach. He seems more prone to absolutism.

225
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 12:25:12pm

re: #221 A Mom Anon

we were almost universally convinced that Bush, if he had erred, had erred on the side of safety. It only came out later that he did not merely err, he blundered, and knowingly so.

226
Khal Wimpo (not-so-Super Tuesday's Child)  May 9, 2016 • 12:26:31pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

If I’m doing my math correctly, that is $15 Trillion in new taxes + $18 Trillion that is deficit = $33 Trillion in new spending.

HOLY SCHNIKES!!!

$33 TRILLION OVER 10 YEARS!??? WTF?

Look, I love me some Big Gummint just as much as the next commie pinko progressive democrat, but another $3.3 Trillion/year puts us in the same category as Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, etc. etc.

Basically, countries where The State is the main employer and the main force in the economy, and everything is financed via the Underpants Gnome theory of economics.

227
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 12:26:33pm

re: #219 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

After 9/11 I wanted the entire ME turned to glass. I admit it. I was for the Iraq war and believed the stuff that turned out to be B.S. but then 2004 rolled around and I discovered news outside of Fox…

I wasn’t a republican but I watched Fox some. it wasn’t until later I learned how Fox was, I wasn’t really into politics much and wasn’t ever on the computer I didn’t get my computer until I became disabled and didn’t have anything else to do.

228
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 12:27:18pm

re: #224 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, but to be fair, Clinton isn’t saying you don’t move in that direction. What she’s saying is you move that direction by fighting for every increment and cutting the deals that you need to keep moving the ball.

I don’t get the feeling from Sanders that he appreciates the need for that approach. He seems more prone to absolutism.

Shhhh, don’t you know that Clinton is a Republican? Very hawkish, for sure. Completely in the pocket of Wall Street and big oil.

//

I have no idea what kind of absolutism you could be talking about.

229
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:29:24pm

re: #224 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah, but to be fair, Clinton isn’t saying you don’t move in that direction. What she’s saying is you move that direction by fighting for every increment and cutting the deals that you need to keep moving the ball.

I don’t get the feeling from Sanders that he appreciates the need for that approach. He seems more prone to absolutism.

There are two progressive camps, incrementalists and whatever the opposite of incrementalist is, over how changes should be implemented. Not only has Clinton got the support of minorities, but I think most incrementalists support her, whereas the other group supports Sanders. The Sanders supporters tend to be in the “anything is possible, therefore take a big chance” crowd. Clinton supporters would rather win really small than try to take a big chance and fail. Both sides have their issues, but I am an incrementalist.

230
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 12:29:46pm

re: #229 Belafon

Revolutionary progressives and evolutionary progressives.

231
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 12:30:44pm

re: #188 Shimshon

I don’t care about the debt and neither should you. This money added would be offset by a better economy and better quality of life. But I know Bernie Bros are just going to react to this story by pulling out some Clinton conspiracy where everyone who says something negative about their hero is conspiring against them.

You should care about the debt, this is a massive addition. Total US debt right now is just over 100% of GDP, a rate that’s steadily been climbing, even though net federal outlays have held at a roughly steady 20% of GDP and adjusted Federal receipts have remained fairly stead as well. The only thing making our current situation tenable is historically low interest rates and a steady, adult hand guiding executive policy.

You say we’ll have a better economy and quality of life with the kind of religious conviction that doesn’t feel the need to even try and accompany such raw assertions with evidentiary support. Shaking up the tax structure and creating entirely new, enormous federal programs does carry the very real risk of economic recession and capital flight. Putting entire, large sectors of the economy like the health care insurance industry out of business must come with a plausible plan to put those people back to work. If you don’t or cant the economy will suffer even more, and quality of life for everyone impacted may fall even though they suddenly have a nominal right to “free” healthcare. Same thing with the defense industry, I agree that we need to spend far less on it but that transition has to come with a real plan for putting all that skilled labor to work elsewhere that I’m not seeing.

And what happens if, no when, Bernie fails. He’s set his goals for revolution on such a massive scale that there will be massive reactionary anger and conservative electoral backlash after the economy runs into a stutter and interest rates spike with a US suddenly carrying Japan levels of debt. Who suffers particularly under that scenario, which vulnerable populations will the next Trump scapegoat and set his brownshirt followers wrath upon?

232
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:30:55pm

re: #230 Testy Toad T

Revolutionary progressives and evolutionary progressives.

So, reprogrs and eprogs.

233
withak  May 9, 2016 • 12:31:49pm

re: #223 Kragar

[Embedded content]

What a hill to die on.

When worrying about where people piss is way more important than everything else, maybe your party deserves to die.

234
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:32:42pm

re: #212 Shimshon

The Bush administration didn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni. Anyone paying attention knew it would turn out badly, hence the liberals in America using comparisons to Vietnam. But we were right and they were wrong, and fast forward over a decade and the same people that were wrong are still so confident in their opinions and how wrong the left is.

Their thinking was that Iraq had a more modern, secularist population that would take to pluralistic democracy like ducks to water. Instead, apparently the secularist veneer hid an ethnic and religious rift kept under control by ruthless Baathist brutality, waiting for an opportunity to emerge.

Oops.

235
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 12:33:28pm

re: #229 Belafon

There are two progressive camps, incrementalists and whatever the opposite of incrementalist is, over how changes should be implemented. Not only has Clinton got the support of minorities, but I think most incrementalists support her, whereas the other group supports Sanders. The Sanders supporters tend to be in the “anything is possible, therefore take a big chance” crowd. Clinton supporters would rather win really small than try to take a big chance and fail. Both sides have their issues, but I am an incrementalist.

This election has taught me that the revolutionaries would like to disagree with this statement, mostly because they don’t think that incrementalists are progressive.

In other news, I’m really, really fucking tired of the purity bullshit and it’s leaking through. I apologize and will take myself off to work out some of this physically, because maybe that will help. And if it doesn’t, well, at least I’ll have done my hour on the elliptical.

236
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 12:33:37pm

re: #223 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Kookinelli never disappoints.

237
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 12:34:23pm
238
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 12:34:42pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

Putting entire, large sectors of the economy like the health care insurance industry must come with a plausible plan to put those people back to work. If you don’t or cant the economy will suffer even more, and quality of life for everyone impacted may fall even though they suddenly have a nominal right to “free” healthcare. Same thing with the defense industry, I agree that we need to spend far less on it but that transition has to come with a real plan for putting all that skilled labor to work elsewhere that I’m not seeing.

THIS.

Money spent on defense, or whatever other preferred budgetary bogeyman, isn’t just piled up somewhere and lit on fire. Most spending eventually turns into somebody’s salary. Putting entire sectors out of work may sometimes need to happen, but holy crap there is zero recognition of the downstream effects among a large segment of the left.

239
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 12:35:10pm

re: #238 Testy Toad T

THIS.

Money spent on defense, or whatever other preferred budgetary bogeyman, isn’t just piled up somewhere and lit on fire. Most spending eventually turns into somebody’s salary. Putting entire sectors out of work may sometimes need to happen, but holy crap there is zero recognition of the downstream effects among a large segment of the left.

Because PURITY.

Okay, really leaving now.

240
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:35:59pm

re: #226 Khal Wimpo (not-so-Super Tuesday’s Child)

If I’m doing my math correctly, that is $15 Trillion in new taxes + $18 Trillion that is deficit = $33 Trillion in new spending.

HOLY SCHNIKES!!!

$33 TRILLION OVER 10 YEARS!??? WTF?

Look, I love me some Big Gummint just as much as the next commie pinko progressive democrat, but another $3.3 Trillion/year puts us in the same category as Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, etc. etc.

Basically, countries where The State is the main employer and the main force in the economy, and everything is financed via the Underpants Gnome theory of economics.

$3 Trillion is the current total national expenditure on healthcare, so completely socializing that means the Gov’t spending that much on healthcare. I bet right now the Gov’t is spending > $1 Trillion on it.

241
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:37:44pm

re: #229 Belafon

There are two progressive camps, incrementalists and whatever the opposite of incrementalist is, over how changes should be implemented. Not only has Clinton got the support of minorities, but I think most incrementalists support her, whereas the other group supports Sanders. The Sanders supporters tend to be in the “anything is possible, therefore take a big chance” crowd. Clinton supporters would rather win really small than try to take a big chance and fail. Both sides have their issues, but I am an incrementalist.

Excrementalist?
///

242
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:38:03pm

re: #240 Blind Frog Belly White

$3 Trillion is the current total national expenditure on healthcare, so completely socializing that means the Gov’t spending that much on healthcare. I bet right now the Gov’t is spending > $1 Trillion on it.

So it’s not an unreasonable amount of money… just, taking care of 300+ million Americans is going to require some changes to our budgetary priorities and taxation structure.

243
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:38:33pm

re: #235 klys (maker of Silmarils)

This election has taught me that the revolutionaries would like to disagree with this statement, mostly because they don’t think that incrementalists are progressive.

In other news, I’m really, really fucking tired of the purity bullshit and it’s leaking through. I apologize and will take myself off to work out some of this physically, because maybe that will help. And if it doesn’t, well, at least I’ll have done my hour on the elliptical.

And the revolutionaries might like to believe that, but they don’t get to define whether I’m a Democrat or not.

244
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:38:40pm

re: #241 Blind Frog Belly White

Excrementalist?
///

That’s Trump’s movement.

245
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:39:02pm

I think my dog needs a butt plug.

246
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 12:39:23pm

re: #242 thedopefishlives

So it’s not an unreasonable amount of money… just, taking care of 300+ million Americans is going to require some changes to our budgetary priorities and taxation structure.

And about 40 years of the country moving left to get it done.

247
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 12:39:51pm

Latest PPP poll shows that 65% of people out there don’t trust Trump to select SCOUS judges. 60% think the vacancy should be filled this year.

RBS

248
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 9, 2016 • 12:40:56pm

re: #158 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Seriously, at the time I was all WTF?
Saddam wasn’t bin Laden, Iraq wasn’t Saudi Arabia. Nothing made the least bit of sense, including the stupid WMDs.
The only thing that made sense to me was W finding a reason to finish what his dad started with Saddam.
The whole thing stunk to high heaven.

249
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:40:59pm

re: #245 b_sharp

I think my dog needs a butt plug.

Has your dog joined Trump’s excrementalist movement that wants to gas people?

250
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 12:41:29pm

re: #247 Reality Based Steve

Latest PPP poll shows that 65% of people out there don’t trust Trump to select SCOUS judges. 60% think the vacancy should be filled this year.

[Embedded content]

RBS

pinko leftist polling doesn’t mean anything. ///

251
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:41:56pm

re: #249 Nyet

Has your dog joined Trump’s excrementalist movement that wants to gas people?

Apparently so.

252
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 12:41:59pm

re: #245 b_sharp

Chewed thru the last one already?

253
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 12:42:51pm

re: #252 Kragar

Chewed thru the last one already?

Cheap plastic.

254
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 12:43:07pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

The UN presentation was evidence-free, for one.

255
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:43:07pm
256
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 12:43:18pm

re: #250 Tigger2

pinko leftist polling doesn’t mean anything. ///

That is EXACTLY what they are saying on FR. ROFL

RBS

257
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 12:43:18pm
258
withak  May 9, 2016 • 12:43:19pm

re: #238 Testy Toad T

THIS.

Money spent on defense, or whatever other preferred budgetary bogeyman, isn’t just piled up somewhere and lit on fire. Most spending eventually turns into somebody’s salary. Putting entire sectors out of work may sometimes need to happen, but holy crap there is zero recognition of the downstream effects among a large segment of the left.

Your tax dollars were more-or-less wasted on my salary for six years or so when I worked in defense, and at the end of my time there, almost nothing of value was produced, since the program I worked on for 90+% of my career there was just shitcanned. Anyone concerned about “waste, fraud, and abuse” needs to give the ol’ military-industrial complex a thorough delousing, and I would love to see it happen — but I know just as well that such a shakeup in that industry would result in a lot of good-paying jobs just disappearing, including those of former co-workers and friends.

The same applies to health care, tax preparation, and other industries ripe for reform. It should happen, but slowly and incrementally, or we’ll just have economic chaos.

259
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:45:58pm

re: #242 thedopefishlives

So it’s not an unreasonable amount of money… just, taking care of 300+ million Americans is going to require some changes to our budgetary priorities and taxation structure.

Basically, our entire society and economy is not set up for how the world now works.

Our health insurance system dates to the 1940s when companies started offering and/or worker started demanding health insurance as a substitute for higher pay. Tying health insurance to employment doesn’t make sense anymore, but we’ve gone too many miles down the road for a quick change.

Our system of balancing of wages and profits dates to about the same time, when workers had a lot more leverage to demand higher compensation. Now, business has the upper hand, and so corporate profits soar and wages stagnate. It’s not just the death of unions in the private sector, it’s automation, globalization, and other forces. But we’re still treating it like a level playing field between Capital and Labor. We as a society need to rethink the balance, and probably that means actual redistribution.

260
gwangung  May 9, 2016 • 12:47:19pm

re: #258 withak

The same applies to health care, tax preparation, and other industries ripe for reform. It should happen, but slowly and incrementally, or we’ll just have economic chaos.

Worse, progressives are rarely prepared for chaos. Who’s prepared for chaos? Exploiters, business men, etc. They have practice exploiting the rules and they’ll find the holes in the new rules way before the rest of us do (let alone regulators).

261
Big Beautiful Door  May 9, 2016 • 12:47:25pm

re: #229 Belafon

There are two progressive camps, incrementalists and whatever the opposite of incrementalist is, over how changes should be implemented. Not only has Clinton got the support of minorities, but I think most incrementalists support her, whereas the other group supports Sanders. The Sanders supporters tend to be in the “anything is possible, therefore take a big chance” crowd. Clinton supporters would rather win really small than try to take a big chance and fail. Both sides have their issues, but I am an incrementalist.

I would like to see something big like the ACA, but I know that nothing will change unless the Democrats win control of Congress, and the best chance of that happening is if Clinton is the nominee.

262
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 12:47:46pm

re: #257 Kragar

Move over, bald eagle; you’ve got company.

The North American bison became a national symbol of the United States on Monday, as President Barack Obama signed the National Bison Legacy Act into law. The legislation adopts the once-nearly extinct species as the country’s official national mammal.

How many people will scream before they find out that the eagle is not a mammal?

263
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 12:48:40pm

I’m getting hit by one idiot after another now, telling me how corrupt Barney Frank is.

Barney Freaking Frank. Not even Barney Frank is pure enough for the puritopians now.

264
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:49:51pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

I’m getting hit by one idiot after another now, telling me how corrupt Barney Frank is.

Barney Freaking Frank. Not even Barney Frank is pure enough for the puritopians now.

It’s starting to sound like Tea Party-level absolutism.

265
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:50:59pm

re: #257 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Never mind the fact that eagles aren’t mammals.

266
withak  May 9, 2016 • 12:51:35pm

re: #262 Belafon

How many people will scream before they find out that the eagle is not a mammal?

Roughly the same amount of people that were confusenraged about “renaming” Denali.

267
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 12:52:03pm

re: #265 darthstar

And with that, we’re right back to schwarma.

268
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:52:06pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

I’m getting hit by one idiot after another now, telling me how corrupt Barney Frank is.

Barney Freaking Frank. Not even Barney Frank is pure enough for the puritopians now.

David Sirota’s writing about him at ibtimes because he’s on he board of a bank now as well as part of the Dem convention team.

269
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:52:15pm

re: #261 Big Beautiful Door

I would like to see something big like the ACA, but I know that nothing will change unless the Democrats win control of Congress, and the best chance of that happening is if Clinton is the nominee.

Yeah, and the ACA, as incremental as it was, triggered a big backlash. Sure, a lot of the rise of the Tea Party was simple racism, but let’s not underestimate the percentage of Americans who truly believe that the Gov’t should not take on such large things, even if it means people dying.

EDIT: because it’s only THOSE PEOPLE dying, of course. Back to racism….

270
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 12:52:48pm

re: #267 lawhawk

And with that, we’re right back to schwarma.

I like schwarma.

271
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 12:53:05pm
272
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:53:47pm

re: #265 darthstar

Never mind the fact that eagles aren’t mammals.

[Embedded content]

That’s why they don’t have boobs.

273
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 12:54:44pm

re: #272 Blind Frog Belly White

In my coloring book they do.

274
lawhawk  May 9, 2016 • 12:55:12pm

re: #270 darthstar

Schwarma and garlic fries. That’d be like the perfect lunch.

275
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 12:55:53pm

re: #274 lawhawk

Schwarma and garlic fries. That’d be like the perfect lunch.

You’re making me hungry now. And hungry is not good when I’m still suffering from a plugged-up digestive tract. Discovered that yesterday.

276
Big Beautiful Door  May 9, 2016 • 12:56:07pm

re: #234 Blind Frog Belly White

Their thinking was that Iraq had a more modern, secularist population that would take to pluralistic democracy like ducks to water. Instead, apparently the secularist veneer hid an ethnic and religious rift kept under control by ruthless Baathist brutality, waiting for an opportunity to emerge.

Oops.

The fighting in the former Yugoslavian republics in the nineties should’ve given them a clue.

277
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:56:16pm

re: #274 lawhawk

Schwarma and garlic fries. That’d be like the perfect lunch.

Dammit, now that’s what I want for lunch! And no place nearby to get it!

278
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 12:56:59pm

Barney Frank favors Hillary over Bernie, and that’s enough for Bernie fans to tar him as corrupt.

279
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 12:57:17pm

I’m eating a can of Yankee beans for lunch.

280
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 12:57:42pm

re: #262 Belafon

How many people will scream before they find out that the eagle is not a mammal?

They already are. I base that statement not on any research or anything I’ve read, but simply because OBAMA

281
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:58:26pm

re: #276 Big Beautiful Door

The fighting in the former Yugoslavian republics in the nineties should’ve given them a clue.

Learning from History is for suckers. Didn’t you know “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”?

282
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 12:58:43pm

re: #274 lawhawk

Schwarma and garlic fries. That’d be like the perfect lunch.

casts a very dirty look in lawhawks direction.

RBS

283
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 12:58:50pm

re: #278 jaunte

Barney Frank favors Hillary over Bernie, and that’s enough for Bernie fans to tar him as corrupt.

Well, then I must be corrupt, too.

284
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 1:00:29pm

re: #281 Blind Frog Belly White

BTW, that little speech should be in the dictionary, under “Hubris”.

285
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:00:45pm

re: #259 Blind Frog Belly White

But we’re still treating it like a level playing field between Capital and Labor. We as a society need to rethink the balance, and probably that means actual redistribution.

As if individuals and families with limited incomes can compete on an even basis with multi-million-dollar, international corporations…

286
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 1:01:07pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

I’m getting hit by one idiot after another now, telling me how corrupt Barney Frank is.

Barney Freaking Frank. Not even Barney Frank is pure enough for the puritopians now.

Why do I have a feeling that they sound a lot like Rush Limbaugh right now?

287
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:01:23pm

re: #272 Blind Frog Belly White

That’s why they don’t have boobs.

Damn libtards…I had chicken breasts last night…

288
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 1:01:52pm

The DoJ presser is running late but a Twee from Deray states DoJ is suing NC for their bathroom bill.

289
withak  May 9, 2016 • 1:02:10pm

re: #287 FormerDirtDart

Damn libtards…I had chicken breasts last night…

They even have a restaurant named after ‘em… Hooters!!!

290
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 1:02:44pm

re: #283 Blind Frog Belly White

You’re in good company.

291
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:03:04pm

re: #271 Kragar

“It’s not just the laws we need to pass,” @HillaryClinton tells mom terrified of gun violence in school. “It’s going after the gun culture.”
— Sahil Kapur

This should have the commenters at FreeRepublic foaming at the mouth….

292
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 1:04:05pm

re: #265 darthstar

Never mind the fact that eagles aren’t mammals.

[Embedded content]

293
Stanley Sea  May 9, 2016 • 1:04:20pm

Go Ms. Lynch!!!!

294
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 1:05:02pm

re: #264 Blind Frog Belly White

It’s starting to sound like Tea Party-level absolutism.

That happened weeks ago.

295
Stanley Sea  May 9, 2016 • 1:05:13pm

re: #288 Bubblehead II

The DoJ presser is running late but a Twee from Deray states DoJ is suing NC for their bathroom bill.

[Embedded content]

Including UNC!

296
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 1:05:43pm

re: #285 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

As if individuals and families with limited incomes can compete on an even basis with multi-million-dollar, international corporations…

Every time I have tried to discuss the reason for unions with anyone on the Right, they always talk as if employer/employee relations are 1-on-1, Bill Employee negotiating with Bob Employer, and any extra compensation Bill asks for comes out of Bob’s pocket, and in their mind, Bob is only making a little more than Bill.

They never seem to grasp that most Americans work at companies larger than 100 employees, and that their employers have lawyers, HR consultants, and a whole lot more data and leverage than Bill has.

297
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 1:06:38pm

Anybody got a link with audio?

298
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 1:06:50pm

re: #273 TK-421

In my coloring book they do.

Eagles, not harpies.

299
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:07:06pm

re: #296 Blind Frog Belly White

Every time I have tried to discuss the reason for unions with anyone on the Right, they always talk as if employer/employee relations are 1-on-1, Bill Employee negotiating with Bob Employer, and any extra compensation Bill asks for comes out of Bob’s pocket, and in their mind, Bob is only making a little more than Bill.

They never seem to grasp that most Americans work at companies larger than 100 employees, and that their employers have lawyers, HR consultants, and a whole lot more data and leverage than Bill has.

As well as 3-4 tiers of management; Bill Employee may negotiate with Bob Employer, but Bob has little to no leverage to affect Bill Employee’s wages. And while Bob may not make much more than Bill does, the guy 3 rungs up the ladder who really controls the pursestrings for XYZ Division certainly does.

300
Stanley Sea  May 9, 2016 • 1:07:18pm

re: #297 Bubblehead II

Anybody got a link with audio?

I’m watching CNN

301
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 1:07:20pm

I was thinking this weekend that Sanders supporters kind of remind me of when I’ve been working on some code for a while and I think I’m finally at the end. But while I’m testing, I run into a problem I didn’t anticipate. Then I start trying to do simple tweaks in order to get this condition to work, but no matter how many changes I make, it just won’t do what I want it to do. And it gets me more and more frustrated.

I think a lot of the comments from Sanders supporters are them trying to come up with that one weird trick that will just get everyone to their side. It’s not working, though, and they’re getting more frantic.

When I get to that point, I have to step away from the code for a while. After forgetting about what I was doing, I can think about the original problem, how it should be implemented, and how it will fit into my existing code.

Sanders supporters will have to get to the point where they can step away from the problem of getting him nominated, so they can refocus on the problem at hand, which is implementing what they would like. They will have to figure out how this will work with Clinton as a nominee, which they should begin to realize is a lot simpler problem than how to get it implemented if Trump is president.

But this will require Sanders to give the space to refocus. After June, 2008, Clinton retreated enough for her supporters to refocus after coming to terms with her not being nominated. If Sanders is serious about his beliefs, he will do the same thing. But I expect a lot of noise between now and the rest of the primaries.

302
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:07:24pm

re: #293 Stanley Sea

Go Ms. Lynch!!!!

Why is Big Governments stomping all over our values and interfering in local government, and Oh, City of Charlotte, you can’t have higher minimum wages than the state or LGBT protections!!!!

303
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 1:08:31pm

re: #299 thedopefishlives

As well as 3-4 tiers of management; Bill Employee may negotiate with Bob Employer, but Bob has little to no leverage to affect Bill Employee’s wages. And while Bob may not make much more than Bill does, the guy 3 rungs up the ladder who really controls the pursestrings for XYZ Division certainly does.

Well, really it’s Bob Manager. They discuss this as if everyone in America works in a small, Sole Proprietor shop, and Bill want to steal food of the plates of Bob’s children.

304
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:08:51pm

re: #303 Blind Frog Belly White

Well, really it’s Bob Manager. They discuss this as if everyone in America works in a small, Sole Proprietor shop, and Bill want to steal food of the plates of Bob’s children.

Ah, gotcha. That’s very true.

305
b.d.  May 9, 2016 • 1:08:58pm

[trump] When I’m president we’re going to call them Buffaloes again [/trump]

306
freetoken  May 9, 2016 • 1:09:00pm

They’re about launch for the last dive of this leg:

Okeanos Explorer - Camera 1

307
freetoken  May 9, 2016 • 1:09:40pm
308
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:09:43pm

re: #268 darthstar

David Sirota’s writing about him at ibtimes because he’s on he board of a bank now as well as part of the Dem convention team.

Which has been public news for more than a year now.

In his own words: Wall Street Reform: Yes, I Took Bank Money. And It Made Me a Better Regulator..

309
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:09:47pm

re: #292 b.d.

[Embedded content]

310
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:09:56pm
311
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:10:09pm

re: #296 Blind Frog Belly White

Every time I have tried to discuss the reason for unions with anyone on the Right, they always talk as if employer/employee relations are 1-on-1, Bill Employee negotiating with Bob Employer, and any extra compensation Bill asks for comes out of Bob’s pocket, and in their mind, Bob is only making a little more than Bill.

They never seem to grasp that most Americans work at companies larger than 100 employees, and that their employers have lawyers, HR consultants, and a whole lot more data and leverage than Bill has.

When investors band their resources together to maximize profits, that’s a corporation, the very heart and sold of capitalism. But when employees band together to maximize wages and benefits, that is eevil collectivism…go figure.

312
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:10:17pm

re: #296 Blind Frog Belly White

Every time I have tried to discuss the reason for unions with anyone on the Right, they always talk as if employer/employee relations are 1-on-1, Bill Employee negotiating with Bob Employer, and any extra compensation Bill asks for comes out of Bob’s pocket, and in their mind, Bob is only making a little more than Bill.

They never seem to grasp that most Americans work at companies larger than 100 employees, and that their employers have lawyers, HR consultants, and a whole lot more data and leverage than Bill has.

Also, too, we’re all the bunch of us still a nation of independent, yeoman farmers who live off of the soil, just like in Thomas Jefferson’s day, that’s why we don’t need unions or big government.

//

313
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:10:51pm
314
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 1:11:14pm

re: #312 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Also, too, we’re all the bunch of us still a nation of independent, yeoman farmers who live off of the soil, just like in Thomas Jefferson’s day, that’s why we don’t need unions or big government.

//

A nation of farms and small towns, where 90% of Americans live neither on a farm nor in a small town.

315
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:11:31pm

re: #313 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

“Not sure who he is, but he’s sucked for yrs.” What a completely dumbshit thing to say.

316
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 1:13:02pm

re: #310 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He’s still supporting a candidate that has more or less lost what does they say about his intelligence.

317
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:13:24pm
318
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:14:07pm
319
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 1:14:32pm
320
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:15:12pm

re: #313 Charles Johnson

“Don’t know who he is but he sucks.”

I wonder if this tweeter has a newsletter I could subscribe to…
/

321
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 1:15:21pm

re: #318 Charles Johnson

I’m curious how big that person’s projector is.

322
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 1:15:57pm

re: #320 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

“Don’t know who he is but he sucks.”

I wonder if this tweeter has a newsletter I could subscribe to…
/

You have to send him a SASE.

RBS

323
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:16:08pm

re: #318 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Freaking out? Are we freaking out? Who freaking cares? I can say freak a lot too!

324
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:16:20pm
325
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:16:51pm

re: #322 Reality Based Steve

You have to send him a SASE.

RBS

Oh, forget it, then.

/

326
Barefoot Grin  May 9, 2016 • 1:16:55pm

re: #267 lawhawk

And with that, we’re right back to schwarma.

If you’re late in the lunch rush it’s always the first thing sold out.

327
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 1:17:28pm

Geez, what an ass.

328
Sir John Barron  May 9, 2016 • 1:17:36pm

re: #318 Charles Johnson

IRRELEVANT AND CORRUPT!!!!!!1

329
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:18:31pm
330
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 1:19:49pm

re: #318 Charles Johnson

331
Shiplord Kirel  May 9, 2016 • 1:22:33pm

I think most of the Bernie or Bust crowd will get on board as soon as they think they have rattled their gourds and shaken their feathers enough to have made a point.

332
withak  May 9, 2016 • 1:23:03pm

re: #329 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

This is the behavior of a supposedly professional journalist. Wow.

333
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 1:24:42pm

See, this kind of purity crap from the left can go the same way as the tea party. Primary anyone who is at all centrist. Claim to be able to do anything, pass any social program. Pillory anyone who calls for sensible progressive solutions.

One day we Democrats could end up with our own Trump.

334
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:25:25pm

Administrators on Monday will meet with the family of the 17-year-old senior, whom the family asked not be named due to privacy and safety concerns, after she took to social media on Friday to call out Los Osos High School in Rancho Cucamonga.
In a Facebook post that quickly went viral, the student said she was “saddened, disgusted, hurt and embarrassed” by the error, which comes less than two weeks before her school’s graduation.
“Apparently I am ‘Isis’ in the yearbook. The school reached out to me and had the audacity to say that this was a typo. I beg to differ, let’s be real,” the post read.
The post sparked widespread outrage online, with some calling the misprint “racist” and “islamophobic.”

335
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 1:26:35pm

re: #324 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

336
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 1:26:47pm

re: #329 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Sirota blocks everyone who calls him on his zealous pin-headed extremism.

337
darthstar  May 9, 2016 • 1:27:47pm

re: #306 freetoken

They’re about launch for the last dive of this leg:

[Embedded content]

If they find a pair of Vuarnets, they’re mine. Fell off my head one day when I was out on the water…figure they drifted in that direction before reaching bottom.

338
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:28:06pm

re: #333 blueraven

One day we Democrats could end up with our own Trump.

We have, but we’re not giving him the victory in the primary. The Republicans have surrendered to theirs.

339
calochortus  May 9, 2016 • 1:28:26pm

re: #334 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Supposedly there was a student of that name who transferred earlier in the year, so it could be a very stupid mistake.
Stupidity is a powerful force that can be mistaken for malice.

340
Stanley Sea  May 9, 2016 • 1:28:49pm

re: #334 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Assholes on the yearbook committee.

341
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 1:28:57pm

re: #333 blueraven

See, this kind of purity crap from the left can go the same way as the tea party. Primary anyone who is at all centrist. Claim to be able to do anything, pass any social program. Pillory anyone who calls for sensible progressive solutions.

One day we Democrats could end up with our own Trump.

We have, but this time we’ve been smart enough to not make him the nominee.

RBS

342
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 1:29:38pm

Ex McCain Aide Unloads On Trump: ‘He’s Just An A**hole!’

Add one more name to the list of Republicans willing to go on the record and say how they really feel about Donald Trump. Former John McCain aide Mark Salter told Politico that Trump is not just a bad candidate, he’s a terrible human being.

Salter said Trump’s comments about McCain — “I like people who weren’t captured” — is bad enough, but given that McCain is an experienced politician, “he’s in the business, he’s a tough guy,” but going after Serge Kovaleski, the disabled NY Times reporter. is beyond the pale.

“What kind of an assh*le does that?” Salter said.

343
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:29:42pm

re: #341 Reality Based Steve

We have, but this time we’ve been smart enough to not make him the nominee.

RBS

Type faster! Spare me the trouble!

344
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 1:29:46pm

Sanders isn’t nearly as bad as Trump anything like Trump.

345
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 1:30:12pm
346
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:31:16pm

re: #344 Belafon

Sanders isn’t nearly as bad as Trump anything like Trump.

We didn’t have a Tea Party to lay the groundwork.

347
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:35:08pm

Another douchebag chimes in.

348
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:35:19pm

re: #334 FormerDirtDart

Yearbooks recalled after Muslim student misnamed ‘Isis’

Bob Dylan would approve

349
Charles Johnson  May 9, 2016 • 1:36:02pm

“Does green stand for money?”

Man, these people are fucking nuts.

350
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 1:36:27pm

He [Trump] said the points in his tax plan he’s most intent on keeping are tax cuts for the middle class and businesses — particularly those that have refused to bring profits earned overseas back into the United States. He’d like his plan to incentivize them to return the profit to the U.S.

cnn.com

The Cayman Islands is one of the most well-known tax havens in the world. Unlike most countries, the Cayman Islands does not have a corporate tax, making it an ideal place for multinational corporations to base subsidiary entities to shield some or all of their incomes from taxation.

investopedia.com

351
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:36:38pm

re: #349 Charles Johnson

“Does green stand for money?”

Man, these people are fucking nuts.

You literally can’t make this shit up. Holy nutty balls, Batman.

352
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 1:37:38pm

Sure, green stands for money. That’s why Green parties around the world use the word.

353
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:37:47pm
354
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 1:38:30pm

Green Jobs!

355
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 1:38:48pm

fighting bernie is last month’s battle

we’re in the general now and everybody should be fighting trump and trumpismo

356
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 1:39:06pm

re: #349 Charles Johnson

Forget it Jake. It’s Moonbat Town.

357
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 1:39:47pm

re: #354 jaunte

Green Jobs!

red mars
blue mars
green mars

358
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 1:40:33pm

re: #357 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Wrong order.

359
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 1:41:09pm

There’s very little difference between the Trump’s of the world and David Sirota’s of the world. They will never, ever admit they are wrong and would gladly burn down everything if they don’t get their way.

360
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 1:41:37pm

re: #347 Charles Johnson

361
Dexter's New Approach  May 9, 2016 • 1:41:51pm

These plans are really difficult to score, but Bernie’s is especially difficult because the largest chunk is in the radical transformation of a $3T HC industry (this is where the studies differ.) But I wouldn’t get too excited about this analysis of Bernie’s budget because this method of scoring makes any type of move away from cost-sharing insurance to a single payer a absolutely no fucking way ever non-starter. The authors’ believe that the removal of cost-sharing (e.g.copays/deductibles) and uninsured would lead to loss of revenue and an increase of usage that results in an immediate and durable 50% increase in total HC spending in the US.

Now, if you want to believe that a transition to single-payer will lead to hordes of people seeking all this new healthcare treatment (goodies!) because it’s free, but no meaningful savings or inflation protection from better patient treatment, removal of admin cost and insurance profit ($ and motive), monopsony market power, simplicity in patient/system navigation, incentive increase for wellness programs, then this is the analysis for you.

I support Sander’s plan in principle, but there are (other) serious transition challenges. It can only work with broad support.

362
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 1:43:04pm

re: #338 wrenchwench

We have, but we’re not giving him the victory in the primary. The Republicans have surrendered to theirs.

I don’t think Bernie is quite our Trump, but his success and eventual loss will promote someone even more extreme next time, I fear. After a while it will be; LOL nothing matters and voila…A charismatic Trumplike figure pretending to care about The People could emerge and be taken seriously by a frustrated Left.

363
GlutenFreeJesus  May 9, 2016 • 1:44:59pm

re: #362 blueraven

Next time, the DNC won’t let an outsider abuse and tarnish their platform.

Re: topic. And you know it’s coming.

“At least with Bernie, we get free shit!”

364
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:45:19pm

Nicely played sir…

365
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 1:46:48pm

re: #362 blueraven

I don’t think Bernie is quite our Trump, but his success and eventual loss will promote someone even more extreme next time, I fear. After a while it will be; LOL nothing matters and voila…A charismatic Trumplike figure pretending to care about The People could emerge and be taken seriously by a frustrated Left.

I don’t think Clinton is particularly vulnerable, but I think she is uniquely subject to having been steeped in RWNJ propaganda for three decades. It’s unlikely that our 2020/2024 nominee will have so many voters culturally accustomed and habituated to thinking of them as dirty/untrustworthy/unreliable.

366
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 1:46:50pm

Trump names NJ Gov Christie as head of his transition team

slimmed down christie will be his vp

367
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 1:46:54pm
368
GlutenFreeJesus  May 9, 2016 • 1:46:58pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

I was fooled too. Let it be a lesson for all of us.

Support our troops by not sending them to wars of choice based on lies and deception.

369
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:47:35pm

re: #362 blueraven

I don’t think Bernie is quite our Trump, but his success and eventual loss will promote someone even more extreme next time, I fear. After a while it will be; LOL nothing matters and voila…A charismatic Trumplike figure pretending to care about The People could emerge and be taken seriously by a frustrated Left.

The Extreme Left does not exert the same hold over the Democratic Party as the Extreme Right does over the GOP.

And I cannot imagine how a “left Trump” would come about…a self-financing leftist millionaire?

370
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 1:47:35pm

re: #364 FormerDirtDart

Nicely played sir…

[Embedded content]

I already like that guy. haha

371
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:47:37pm

re: #362 blueraven

I don’t think Bernie is quite our Trump, but his success and eventual loss will promote someone even more extreme next time, I fear. After a while it will be; LOL nothing matters and voila…A charismatic Trumplike figure pretending to care about The People could emerge and be taken seriously by a frustrated Left.

Weirder things have happened.

372
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 1:48:54pm

re: #369 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The Extreme Left does not exert the same hold over the Democratic Party as the Extreme Right does over the GOP.

And I cannot imagine how a “left Trump” would come about…a self-financing leftist millionaire?

Pop culture figure, I think, driven to politics later in life. Sort of a weird hybrid of Al Franken and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

373
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:50:19pm

re: #372 Testy Toad T

Pop culture figure, I think, driven to politics later in life. Sort of a weird hybrid of Al Franken and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Martin Sheen thought it would be him.

374
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 1:50:35pm

re: #365 Testy Toad T

I don’t think Clinton is particularly vulnerable, but I think she is uniquely subject to having been steeped in RWNJ propaganda for three decades. It’s unlikely that our 2020/2024 nominee will have so many voters culturally accustomed and habituated to thinking of them as dirty/untrustworthy/unreliable.

I am not so sure about that. Not the Clinton part but future nominees. I think if this purity left gains strength, anyone to the right of Lenin himself will be seen as corporate shills.

375
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 1:50:48pm

re: #366 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Trump names NJ Gov Christie as head of his transition team

slimmed down christie will be his vp

Good thing he picked someone so calm and accommodating to swing to the general.
//

376
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 1:51:01pm
377
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 1:51:33pm

re: #374 blueraven

I am not so sure about that. Not the Clinton part but future nominees. I think if this purity left gains strength, anyone to the right of Lenin himself will be seen as corporate shills.

I don’t think the far left is any stronger now than it was fifteen years ago. Lots of voters just don’t like Hillary Clinton.

378
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 1:51:42pm
379
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 1:51:43pm

re: #374 blueraven

I am not so sure about that. Not the Clinton part but future nominees. I think if this purity left gains strength, anyone to the right of Lenin himself will be seen as corporate shills.

The so-called purity left has as much power as RAND PAUL supporters. They are loud vocal on the internet and nothing else. Stop thinking they are going to pull a national political party.

380
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:52:03pm

re: #375 TK-421

Good thing he picked someone so calm and accommodating to swing to the general.
//

To think that there was once a time when I would have at least considered Christ Christie as a serious candidate worthy at least of some consideration….

381
GlutenFreeJesus  May 9, 2016 • 1:52:06pm

re: #372 Testy Toad T

Al Yankovich. Has Franken’s first name and a scary sounding foreign last name. Perfect!

382
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 1:53:13pm

re: #376 Kragar

[Embedded content]

You nailed it. His profile says he advocates for underdogs. He thinks he’s better than the dogs he advocates for.

383
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 1:53:42pm

re: #334 FormerDirtDart

Nothing in the Isis story. I read there was another student named Isis and they accidentally got the names mixed up. Probably the photographers part. I don’t think there was any intentional bigotry.

384
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 1:53:43pm

Donald Trump Doesn’t Know What the GI Bill Is

“hey, i think everybody should pay at least something for that waddaya callit thing they shove up your you know what to check your intestines. i diddit and im very smart yanno it’ll make your head spin”

385
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 1:54:34pm

re: #377 Testy Toad T

I don’t think the far left is any stronger now than it was fifteen years ago. Lots of voters just don’t like Hillary Clinton.

Why do you think that is? You dont think the far left and Bernie people contributed to do that?

386
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 1:55:31pm

Blaming teachers for all our woes probably still have a few miles left on it. Christie’s big mouth can freshen it up.

387
Barefoot Grin  May 9, 2016 • 1:55:53pm

re: #366 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Trump names NJ Gov Christie as head of his transition team

slimmed down christie will be his vp

I see a great reality show here….

388
sagehen  May 9, 2016 • 1:55:54pm

re: #171 thedopefishlives

Come to think of it, decreasing tax rates would increase tax revenue in only one situation that I can imagine: If you are so brutally overtaxing people that they are actively leaving or avoiding your country, and by lowering the tax rate, you are encouraging people and/or businesses to migrate to your location. If your tax rates are already competitively low, you will see no such influx from lowering them further.

It worked here ONCE (and only once).

In the early 60’s, when we reduced the top marginal rate from 90% to 70%.

People with big incomes from sporadic work (Vegas headliners, prizefighters, the winningest jockeys, etc) worked more. People with big incomes as continuing flow from grandpa’s work (Fords, Rockefellers, etc) stopped putting all their money into tax-free foundations, lots more of it was taxable. And “regular” top-bracket people (doctors, lawyers, top execs and successful entrepreneurs) just had twice as much take-home pay and they spent it on American products that created more American jobs and put upward pressure on wages. (they could only spend on American products, because Europe and Asia’s manufacturing capacity was still working full out on things like rebuilding their bombed-out cities and railroads.)

389
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:56:11pm

re: #377 Testy Toad T

I don’t think the far left is any stronger now than it was fifteen years ago. Lots of voters just don’t like Hillary Clinton.

I don’t particularly like her, I find her the very image of the power-hungry career politician, but, in the end, I consider her the best and most qualified candidate, and that is what I base my decision on, not ideology or wishful thinking.

390
FormerDirtDart  May 9, 2016 • 1:56:45pm

It’s only Monday afternoon, and already everyone needs a hug…

391
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 1:56:47pm
392
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 1:57:16pm

re: #388 sagehen

To be fair, the people preaching trickle-down economics are pretty much praying for that exact scenario to be true.

393
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 1:58:32pm

re: #384 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

Donald Trump Doesn’t Know What the GI Bill Is

“hey, i think everybody should pay at least something for that waddaya callit thing they shove up your you know what to check your intestines. i diddit and im very smart yanno it’ll make your head spin”

He’s going to give them all a scholarship to Trump Academy.

RBS

394
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 9, 2016 • 1:58:40pm

re: #388 sagehen

It worked here ONCE (and only once).

In the early 60’s, when we reduced the top marginal rate from 90% to 70%.

People with big incomes from sporadic work (Vegas headliners, prizefighters, the winningest jockeys, etc) worked more. People with big incomes as continuing flow from grandpa’s work (Fords, Rockefellers, etc) stopped putting all their money into tax-free foundations, lots more of it was taxable. And “regular” top-bracket people (doctors, lawyers, top execs and successful entrepreneurs) just had twice as much take-home pay and they spent it on American products that created more American jobs and put upward pressure on wages. (they could only spend on American products, because Europe and Asia’s manufacturing capacity was still working full out on things like rebuilding their bombed-out cities and railroads.)

…and there were still serious barriers to trade, finance and labor. National markets were still a concept.Now capital is free to follow the path of highest returns, and that is often in countries where labor laws, worker safety and environmental protection are weaker or nonexistent.

395
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 1:59:07pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

You should care about the debt, this is a massive addition. Total US debt right now is just over 100% of GDP, a rate that’s steadily been climbing, even though net federal outlays have held at a roughly steady 20% of GDP and adjusted Federal receipts have remained fairly stead as well. The only thing making our current situation tenable is historically low interest rates and a steady, adult hand guiding executive policy.

You say we’ll have a better economy and quality of life with the kind of religious conviction that doesn’t feel the need to even try and accompany such raw assertions with evidentiary support. Shaking up the tax structure and creating entirely new, enormous federal programs does carry the very real risk of economic recession and capital flight. Putting entire, large sectors of the economy like the health care insurance industry out of business must come with a plausible plan to put those people back to work. If you don’t or cant the economy will suffer even more, and quality of life for everyone impacted may fall even though they suddenly have a nominal right to “free” healthcare. Same thing with the defense industry, I agree that we need to spend far less on it but that transition has to come with a real plan for putting all that skilled labor to work elsewhere that I’m not seeing.

And what happens if, no when, Bernie fails. He’s set his goals for revolution on such a massive scale that there will be massive reactionary anger and conservative electoral backlash after the economy runs into a stutter and interest rates spike with a US suddenly carrying Japan levels of debt. Who suffers particularly under that scenario, which vulnerable populations will the next Trump scapegoat and set his brownshirt followers wrath upon?

In your long post you only told me I should worry, you never said why except telling me to play my tiny violin for defense contractors and private insurance. Interest rates don’t rise because debt is higher, they rise due to the Fed raising rates because of the economy. Western countries that have debt to gdp ratio of 100-150% are not in trouble and America has the extra bonus of being the reserve currency of the world and able to set rates and sell bonds with no problem.

The money added to the deficit will be offset by larger government revenues and citizens paying the government for health care rather than private insurance companies. Do you consider the Social Security program cost to be added to the total debt instead of taken out via FICA payroll taxes?

The anger from Bernie Bros will be similar to RON PAUL fanatics, they will just move on to the new outrage of the week.

I am supposed to be worried about cuts to the defense industry and private insurance? They can all find new jobs instead of exploiting citizens for profit.

Shifting the costs of health care, education, and others, to government, wont break the economy, and in the long run it will cost citizens less out of their own pockets for far greater benefits.

396
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 1:59:23pm

I cannot even imagine the bizarre mystical magical fairy-dust land in which Sanders does not suffer serious general election consequences for being branded a socialist by the usual hatchet jobs.

Never make the mistake of thinking epistemic closure is only a thing on the right.

397
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 9, 2016 • 2:01:54pm

re: #275 thedopefishlives

You’re making me hungry now. And hungry is not good when I’m still suffering from a plugged-up digestive tract. Discovered that yesterday.

welcome to the downside of opioids.

398
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 2:02:01pm

re: #395 Shimshon

I am supposed to be worried about cuts to the defense industry and private insurance? They can all find new jobs instead of exploiting citizens for profit.

Do you know how that reads to the many millions of decent, hardworking Americans who happen to work in these fields to put food on the table? People whose votes one ultimately will hope to win for one’s preferred candidate?

“Exploiting citizens for profit”, FFS.

399
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 2:02:43pm

re: #394 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

…and there were still serious barriers to trade, finance and labor. National markets were still a concept.Now capital is free to follow the path of highest returns, and that is often in countries where labor laws, worker safety and environmental protection are weaker or nonexistent.

And that is exactly what the far right wants to bring us to. A country with no environmental, safety, workers rights or consumer protection regulations in place.

RBS

400
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 2:03:10pm

I have to agree with her “Fucking Idiots”

401
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:04:22pm

re: #398 Testy Toad T

Do you know how that reads to the many millions of decent, hardworking Americans who happen to work in these fields to put food on the table? People whose votes one ultimately will hope to win for one’s preferred candidate?

“Exploiting citizens for profit”, FFS.

The horse carriage industry all found new jobs. Should the government have stopped Henry Ford from bringing cars to everyone? And do you think the government can run insurance without hiring tens of thousands of people? You act like everyone is going to be kicked to the curb and live in poverty with no chance for retraining. And yes, if you are part of industries like fossil fuels and insurance you are profiting off exploitation and harm to society.

402
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 2:05:30pm

This report is going to be interesting.

Something tells me there will be severe criticism of Texas’s lack of oversight/regulations.

403
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 2:05:32pm

re: #401 Shimshon

The horse carriage industry all found new jobs. Do you think the government can run insurance without hiring tens of thousands of people? You act like everyone is going to be kicked to the curb and live in poverty with no chance for retraining. What is with this melodramatic nonsense from so-called Democrats?

On what planet do you or anyone else, or God Himself, have any business calling me a “so-called Democrat”?

404
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:03pm

re: #400 Tigger2

I have to agree with her “Fucking Idiots”

[Embedded content]

They are all kinds of “Pro-Life” until the babby is actually born.

RBS

405
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:19pm

“…How ironic that the Sanders campaign, conducted mostly on the high ground of ideas and ideals, descends to cries of boycott and even revolution as it nears its end. Granted, nobody likes to lose. But the loss was fair and square and those citizens of Bernie Nation who can’t deal with that, who want to opt out of the system or take up arms against it, should be ashamed of themselves. One feels sorry for them.

The nomination is the least of what they’ve lost.”

406
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:24pm
407
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:46pm

re: #362 blueraven

I don’t think Bernie is quite our Trump, but his success and eventual loss will promote someone even more extreme next time, I fear. After a while it will be; LOL nothing matters and voila…A charismatic Trumplike figure pretending to care about The People could emerge and be taken seriously by a frustrated Left.

The teabaggers primaried a lot of, in all honesty, already insane right-wingers because they weren’t insane enough. They won a lot of those seats. Left-wing extremists may try to primary regular Democrats, but IMO absolutely none of them will win. That’s the asymmetry in American politics. Both sides don’t do it!

408
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:49pm

re: #401 Shimshon

The horse carriage industry all found new jobs. Do you think the government can run insurance without hiring tens of thousands of people? You act like everyone is going to be kicked to the curb and live in poverty with no chance for retraining. What is with this melodramatic nonsense from so-called Democrats?

There you go folks, DINOs! Trump here we come!

409
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:06:52pm

re: #403 Testy Toad T

On what planet do you or anyone else, or God Himself, have any business calling me a “so-called Democrat”?

I am allowed to say anything I want and you are allowed to disagree. Since you appear to be so concerned for private business that exploits people for profits and very vocally against bringing health care and education to everyone especially the less fortunate, I will call this out as a “free market conservative” ideology and no place in the Democratic party.

410
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 2:07:48pm

I’m unspeakably furious. Fuck this shit, I’ll be back later.

411
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:08:00pm

re: #408 blueraven

There you go folks, DINOs! Trump here we come!

We need to think of the harm policies will do to the poor private companies, fossil fuels, education, insurance, and stop any progress! Hey wait why are you telling me this is a Republican ideology!

412
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:08:02pm

I thought I went and did my time on the elliptical to get away from the purity bullshit.

413
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 2:08:18pm

re: #406 Kragar

He’s going to be disappointed.

414
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:08:19pm
415
The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  May 9, 2016 • 2:08:27pm

re: #292 b.d.

..that made my day. Nice work.

416
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:09:17pm

re: #410 Testy Toad T

I’m unspeakably furious. Fuck this shit, I’ll be back later.

You’re furious? Think of how mad all the poor people are listening to you lecture them on how we should think of the middle and upper class people and not do anything to help their situation because you might have to go find a new job. Or all the poor people that want to go to college or even get a quality high school education but you all are going to lecture them about the benefits of supply side economics and worrying about national debt. I heard the same talking points from all the kids making good money in the oil fields, don’t do anything about climate change because they love their quality of life.

417
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:09:20pm

re: #397 Backwoods_Sleuth

welcome to the downside of opioids.

Down, but not out.

:)

418
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:09:29pm

Apparently the insurance industry and military contractors are off limits now.

419
scottslemmons  May 9, 2016 • 2:09:54pm

re: #379 Shimshon

The so-called purity left has as much power as RAND PAUL supporters. They are loud vocal on the internet and nothing else. Stop thinking they are going to pull a national political party.

I think they’re less powerful than the Paultites. The Paultites are much, much dumber than the Berninthians, but they have a much sturdier attention span and stronger sense of loyalty. The Berninthians are basically a watered-down version of the PUMAs.

420
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:09:59pm

re: #369 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The Extreme Left does not exert the same hold over the Democratic Party as the Extreme Right does over the GOP.

And I cannot imagine how a “left Trump” would come about…a self-financing leftist millionaire?

They’re also too lazy to do the work the Tea Party did. They won’t primary people, because that involved putting up slates of candidates all over the map and then working for them, then accepting it if you lose and STILL voting for your party’s candidate, because The Right always votes.

The far Left? They want revolution handed to them on a platter - they want one Party to turn its most important nomination over to them, without their having done more than vote for him, without even REGISTERING as a member. And if they don’t get it, they’ll stay home and sulk on Election Day.

421
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:10:01pm

re: #409 Shimshon

I am allowed to say anything I want and you are allowed to disagree. Since you appear to be so concerned for private business that exploits people for profits and very vocally against bringing health care and education to everyone especially the less fortunate, I will call this out as a “free market conservative” ideology and no place in the Democratic party.

And you, Shimshon, are showing no understanding for how the Democratic party works. The party has never been anti-business, and we’re very much about caring for how workers are going to be able to do things like eat, sleep, and take care of a family.

You are doing the exact purity thing we’ve been talking about .

422
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:10:23pm

re: #418 TK-421

Apparently the insurance industry and military contractors are off limits now.

If that’s what you’re taking out of this discussion, I don’t know what to tell you.

423
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:11:33pm

re: #419 scottslemmons

I think they’re less powerful than the Paultites. The Paultites are much, much dumber than the Berninthians, but they have a much sturdier attention span and stronger sense of loyalty. The Berninthians are basically a watered-down version of the PUMAs.

I have yet to see any evidence that the Paul fanatics are different people from the current Bernie Bros. I am not talking about legitimate left wing/progressives that like Bernie and are excited for him. I mean the people that post articles from Breitbart because they bash Hillary, and proclaim they’d rather vote Trump than her.

424
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:11:55pm

re: #411 Shimshon

We need to think of the harm policies will do to the poor private companies, fossil fuels, education, insurance, and stop any progress! Hey wait why are you telling me this is a Republican ideology!

I didn’t know Democrats were against private enterprise. Um, in fact, I don’t think they are.

425
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:11:56pm

re: #411 Shimshon

We need to think of the harm policies will do to the poor private companies, fossil fuels, education, insurance, and stop any progress! Hey wait why are you telling me this is a Republican ideology!

If you look, we’re concerned about what these policies will do to people. Closing the doors of every health insurance company will put millions out of work. Where would they go? We don’t have a safety net big enough to handle that many people.

426
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:13:11pm

re: #422 klys (maker of Silmarils)

You don’t have to tell me anything.

427
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:13:56pm

re: #424 blueraven

I didn’t know Democrats were against private enterprise. Um, in fact, I don’t think they are.

Shimshon seems to be confusing our discussion about the effects on people with the effects on companies.

428
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:14:04pm

re: #421 Belafon

And you, Shimshon, are showing no understanding for how the Democratic party works. The party has never been anti-business, and we’re very much about caring for how workers are going to be able to do things like eat, sleep, and take care of a family.

You are doing the exact purity thing we’ve been talking about .

Yes I want subsidized education, socialized medicine, and to aggressively push for green energy and combat climate change and pollution.

In response, the people calling themselves Democrats have taken up the right wing talking points about “anti-business” and “think of the poor national debt” and suddenly get horrified and outraged when I point out that this is a Republican ideology.

429
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:14:57pm

re: #425 Belafon

If you look, we’re concerned about what these policies will do to people. Closing the doors of every health insurance company will put millions out of work. Where would they go? We don’t have a safety net big enough to handle that many people.

And most of us aren’t even saying that we want the current state of things to continue. Just that we’d like to have a thoughtful discussion on how to ramp things down in a reasonable manner so that the transition doesn’t break more shit than it fixes.

That whole revolution versus incremental discussion from not that far upthread.

But no, apparently that means we are lying when we say we’re Democrats and instead we think these industries are off-limits. WTF, guys. I expect better out of the discussion here and instead I’m getting purity bullshit.

430
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:15:06pm

re: #425 Belafon

If you look, we’re concerned about what these policies will do to people. Closing the doors of every health insurance company will put millions out of work. Where would they go? We don’t have a safety net big enough to handle that many people.

As you can see Canada and Europe are just hell holes of poverty, helplessness and loss of jobs all due to Socialist policies on education and health care… someone please think about the poor horse carriage industry and stop this advancement to automobiles.

431
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:15:16pm

Casting asisde the giant health insurance industry is not anti business. The whole business is a scam and a fraud.

432
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 2:15:21pm

re: #400 Tigger2

I have to agree with her “Fucking Idiots”

433
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:15:50pm

Gone for a week and come back to find lizards measuring their dicks against Fidel’s cigar.

434
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:16:08pm

re: #428 Shimshon

Yes I want subsidized education, socialized medicine, and to aggressively push for green energy and combat climate change and pollution.

In response, the people calling themselves Democrats have taken up the right wing talking points about “anti-business” and “think of the poor national debt” and suddenly get horrified and outraged when I point out that this is a Republican ideology.

“Think of the poor national debt”. I do, and I think of how it actually can have an impact on the lives of ordinary people. You’re comments show your lack of how our economy is put together.

435
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 2:16:33pm

re: #433 Decatur Deb

Gone for a week and come back to find lizards measuring their dicks against Fidel’s cigar.

It Berns.

436
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:16:59pm

re: #429 klys (maker of Silmarils)

And most of us aren’t even saying that we want the current state of things to continue. Just that we’d like to have a thoughtful discussion on how to ramp things down in a reasonable manner so that the transition doesn’t break more shit than it fixes.

That whole revolution versus incremental discussion from not that far upthread.

But no, apparently that means we are lying when we say we’re Democrats and instead we think these industries are off-limits. WTF, guys. I expect better out of the discussion here and instead I’m getting purity bullshit.

The people demanding purity bullshit in the Democratic party by trying to talk over and silence a socialist/progressive viewpoint are crying about purity bullshit and countering left wing arguments by using right wing “anti-business!” rallying cries. Nice to meet you Mr. Kettle.

437
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:17:28pm

re: #436 Shimshon

The people demanding purity bullshit in the Democratic party by trying to talk over and silence a socialist/progressive viewpoint are crying about purity bullshit and countering left wing arguments by using right wing “anti-business!” rallying cries. Nice to meet you Mr. Kettle.

It’s Dr. Kettle, actually.

438
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 2:17:37pm

re: #430 Shimshon

As you can see Canada and Europe are just hell holes of poverty, helplessness and loss of jobs all due to Socialist policies on education and health care… someone please think about the poor horse carriage industry and stop this advancement to automobiles.

Because Canada and Europe went from a system like we have to what they have now overnight and everyone had jobs because of unicorn farts and pixie dust.

439
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:17:57pm

re: #430 Shimshon

As you can see Canada and Europe are just hell holes of poverty, helplessness and loss of jobs all due to Socialist policies on education and health care… someone please think about the poor horse carriage industry and stop this advancement to automobiles.

And to get there we either have to put tens of millions of people out of work and cause tens of millions more to suffer, or do it one piece at a time. I’m for the latter version.

440
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:18:09pm

re: #416 Shimshon

You’re furious? Think of how mad all the poor people are listening to you lecture them on how we should think of the middle and upper class people and not do anything to help their situation because you might have to go find a new job. Or all the poor people that want to go to college or even get a quality high school education but you all are going to lecture them about the benefits of supply side economics and worrying about national debt. I heard the same talking points from all the kids making good money in the oil fields, don’t do anything about climate change because they love their quality of life.

The thing is, your model doesn’t predict where the jobs those people are supposed to take will be coming from. A big increase in taxes WILL be a drag on the economy. The question that remains unanswered is where will the compensating economic growth come from?

And don’t say “so-called Democrats” again. If that’s your attitude, you can take a long walk off a short pier.

441
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:18:24pm

re: #434 Belafon

“Think of the poor national debt”. I do, and I think of how it actually can have an impact on the lives of ordinary people. You’re comments show your lack of how our economy is put together.

It doesn’t. Poor people in America today are not suffering due to national debt, and interest rates are not set based on national debt. This reminds me of the cries from the right about “herp derp INFLATION!” as they tried claiming government spending was going to ruin everyone especially poor people back in the New Deal era and again in the 1990’s.

442
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:18:58pm

re: #430 Shimshon

As you can see Canada and Europe are just hell holes of poverty, helplessness and loss of jobs all due to Socialist policies on education and health care… someone please think about the poor horse carriage industry and stop this advancement to automobiles.

We have to find our own American solution. ACA is a start. There needs to be more and better regulations on insurance co…more nonprofit ones as well as non-profit hospitals. Expansion of medicaid. Ability to negotiate drug prices… Much work left to do

There is more than YOUR way or the Republican way.

443
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:19:13pm

You can bitch about the bern all you want, but universal healthcare has been a goal and principal of progressives for many years.

444
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:19:30pm

re: #438 Jack Burton

Because Canada and Europe went from a system like we have to what they have now overnight and everyone had jobs because of unicorn farts and pixie dust.

If only there would be free education and long unemployment benefits, retraining, etc for people that find themselves in those industries… then maybe that would prove the argument wrong. Now tell me about how government can’t regulate coal because think of all the out of work coal miners Mr. Totally a Democrat.

445
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:19:38pm

re: #433 Decatur Deb

Gone for a week and come back to find lizards measuring their dicks against Fidel’s cigar.

I measure mine agai…….oh, never mind.

446
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:19:39pm

re: #395 Shimshon

In your long post you only told me I should worry, you never said why except telling me to play my tiny violin for defense contractors and private insurance.

You missed the point entirely in order to take the convenient detour into the land of moral superiority. The point was that in order to accrue long term benefits you need to engage in long term strategic planning. Neither you nor Sanders nor any of his supporters have given me the slightest inkling that you’re capable of engaging in such. It’s all raw assertion that the economy will suddenly perform magically better because you simply say it will, while glibly dismissing every single rational concern regarding obvious negative consequences.

This is why the campaign based on pragmatic incremental progress is winning, because while promising less it is grounded in observable reality and doesn’t depend on the same kind of invisible-hand economic conjuration typically observed in conservative trickle down theories.

447
allegro  May 9, 2016 • 2:20:20pm

re: #430 Shimshon

As you can see Canada and Europe are just hell holes of poverty, helplessness and loss of jobs all due to Socialist policies on education and health care… someone please think about the poor horse carriage industry and stop this advancement to automobiles.

How to build a strawman of epic proportions for $200, Alex.

448
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:20:27pm

re: #442 blueraven

We have to find our own American solution. ACA is a start. There needs to be more and better regulations on insurance co…more nonprofit ones as well as non-profit hospitals. Expansion of medicaid. Ability to negotiate drug prices… Much work left to do

There is more than YOUR way or the Republican way.

I don’t remember saying that overnight there needs to be a revolution with pitch forks and all these evil people need to be thrown onto the streets. Here comes more melodramatic nonsense from people arguing exactly like Republicans.

449
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:20:33pm

re: #436 Shimshon

The people demanding purity bullshit in the Democratic party by trying to talk over and silence a socialist/progressive viewpoint are crying about purity bullshit and countering left wing arguments by using right wing “anti-business!” rallying cries. Nice to meet you Mr. Kettle.

Notice I didn’t declare that you weren’t a Democrat, unlike what you pulled above. Disagreeing is not the same thing as a purity measurement. All you’ve done as we’ve discussed how your ideas are going to be implemented without impacting a large number of people is get more belligerent and start labeling people as conservatives.

450
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:20:41pm

re: #443 TK-421

You can bitch about the bern all you want, but universal healthcare has been a goal and principal of progressives for many years.

And it will be for some time to come.

451
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:21:13pm

re: #446 goddamnedfrank

You missed the point entirely in order to take the convenient detour into the land of moral superiority. The point was that in order to accrue long term benefits you need to engage in long term strategic planning. Neither you nor Sanders nor any of his supporters have given me the slightest inkling that you’re capable of engaging in such. It’s all raw assertion that the economy will suddenly perform magically better because you simply say it will, while glibly dismissing every single rational concern regarding obvious negative consequences.

This is why the campaign based on pragmatic incremental progress is winning, because while promising less it is grounded in observable reality and doesn’t depend on the same kind of invisible-hand economic conjuration typically observed in conservative trickle down theories.

Ah yes, the famous right wing anti-climate change argument. You don’t have a long term plan so we can’t even talk about progress! Look at me I’m a progressive!

452
Jenner7  May 9, 2016 • 2:21:18pm

re: #443 TK-421

And how he plans to get there doesn’t add up.

453
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:21:25pm

re: #450 Decatur Deb

And it will be for some time to come.

I like this idea that we all disagree with it because we’re thinking about how the transition should be handled, though.

454
Eventual Carrion  May 9, 2016 • 2:21:38pm

re: #134 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I did the week-long version for older teenagers when I was 17 and it was the best thing ever.

I got to do a short, very supervised version of the SCUBA training they do with the astronauts to simulate working in zero gravity. So awesome.

We sent our daughter there when she was about 17 for the week “training”. She loved it, and now she is in her 4th year towards an engineering degree. She is leaning towards robotics.

455
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:21:43pm

re: #431 TK-421

Casting asisde the giant health insurance industry is not anti business. The whole business is a scam and a fraud.

I find such dismissive, simplistic demonization of business unhelpful. It’s as pointless and silly as the Right’s demonization of government.

456
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 2:22:12pm

re: #443 TK-421

You can bitch about the bern all you want, but universal healthcare has been a goal and principal of progressives for many years.

And that will have to remain a goal for when the Republicans aren’t as crazy as they are right now, if that ever happens.

457
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:22:36pm

re: #449 Belafon

Notice I didn’t declare that you weren’t a Democrat, unlike what you pulled above. Disagreeing is not the same thing as a purity measurement. All you’ve done as we’ve discussed how your ideas are going to be implemented without impacting a large number of people is get more belligerent and start labeling people as conservatives.

Oh okay people just using words like “Fidel’s cigar” and other slurs to call me a Communist are just not directed at me and/or overzealous staffer.

If you use Republican talking points prepare to be called one, it’s as simple as that. if I went into a topic and started saying how we can’t do anything about climate change because all these good people will be put out of work and screw the poor because the national debt is important I would not be surprised if people call me a Republican.

458
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:22:53pm

re: #455 Blind Frog Belly White

I find such dismissive, simplistic demonization of business unhelpful. It’s as pointless and silly as the Right’s demonization of government.

It’s almost like the real world has nuance.

459
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:34pm

re: #444 Shimshon

If only there would be free education and long unemployment benefits, retraining, etc for people that find themselves in those industries… then maybe that would prove the argument wrong. Now tell me about how government can’t regulate coal because think of all the out of work coal miners Mr. Totally a Democrat.

And how do you get there? By putting millions out of work while the economy magically rearranges itself? Where are you going to pay for the long term unemployment benefits if the millions of the health care industry sheds that many jobs? And too much debt, by the way, will cause an increase in inflation, which, if it gets too large, will have a major impact on the poor (I believe our inflation is actually low, and could stand to be raised, but it can be too high).

460
allegro  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:37pm

re: #443 TK-421

You can bitch about the bern all you want, but universal healthcare has been a goal and principal of progressives for many years.

Indeed. Hillary has been working towards that goal for almost three decades.

461
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:38pm

re: #451 Shimshon

Ah yes, the famous right wing anti-climate change argument. You don’t have a long term plan so we can’t even talk about progress! Look at me I’m a progressive!

We are talking about progress, right now, you’re just being an enormous asshole about it.

462
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:39pm

So we’re incrementally dismantling the MIC and heading towards universal health care? Incrementally by when? 2200?

463
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:40pm

If this doesn’t calm everyone, I don’t know what will:

Instagram

One wing to rule them all! 🙌🏻🙌🏻 These MSG Chicken Wings with maple, sherry, and gochujang chili @oakandcharchi are officially my new favorites! A little tangy, a little spicy, a little saucy… so much deliciousness! 😍😍😍
🔻
Want to enjoy these fantastic wings & other fab dishes from @oakandcharchi in the comfort of your own home? Order via @nipfoodie for super easy delivery!

464
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 2:23:51pm

re: #443 TK-421

You can bitch about the bern all you want, but universal healthcare has been a goal and principal of progressives for many years.

Universal Healthcare is not limited to single payer. Many countries, including several European “socialist utopias” have multi-payer universal healthcare.

Obamacare, had the public option not been shitcanned, would have been multi-payer universal healthcare.

465
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:24:33pm

re: #458 klys (maker of Silmarils)

It’s almost like the real world has nuance.

Yeah. Jesus, we rip on the Right for Either/Or, Black/White binary thinking, and then engage in it ourselves? Fuck that noise.

466
sagehen  May 9, 2016 • 2:24:46pm

re: #369 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The Extreme Left does not exert the same hold over the Democratic Party as the Extreme Right does over the GOP.

And I cannot imagine how a “left Trump” would come about…a self-financing leftist millionaire?

Maybe Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk gets bored with his day job.

467
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:25:12pm

re: #465 Blind Frog Belly White

Yeah. Jesus, we rip on the Right for Either/Or, Black/White binary thinking, and then engage in it ourselves? Fuck that noise.

You can come join me in the DINO camp.

We’re cool, because we have T-Rex.

468
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:25:54pm

re: #457 Shimshon

Oh okay people just using words like “Fidel’s cigar” and other slurs to call me a Communist are just not directed at me and/or overzealous staffer.

If you use Republican talking points prepare to be called one, it’s as simple as that. if I went into a topic and started saying how we can’t do anything about climate change because all these good people will be put out of work and screw the poor because the national debt is important I would not be surprised if people call me a Republican.

Actually, I was describing the whole threadlet. You assume I don’t like Fidel.

469
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 2:26:01pm

re: #463 Dr. Matt

If this doesn’t calm everyone, I don’t know what will:

[Embedded content]

I suspect that they don’t deliver to Tennessee…. at least not in time for dinner tonight. Now I’m angry. And Hungry.

RBS
JK

470
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:26:14pm

re: #464 Jack Burton

Universal Healthcare is not limited to single payer. Many countries, including several European “socialist utopias” have multi-payer universal healthcare.

Obamacare, had the public option not been shitcanned, would have been multi-payer universal healthcare.

Obamacare also would have more closely approached universality if the SCOTUS had not ruled that states didn’t have to participate in the Medicaid Expansion.

471
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 2:26:37pm

re: #464 Jack Burton

Universal Healthcare is not limited to single payer. Many countries, including several European “socialist utopias” have multi-payer universal healthcare.

Obamacare, had the public option not been shitcanned, would have been multi-payer universal healthcare.

Obama couldn’t even get the blue dog Dem’s to agree for the public option.

472
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:26:42pm

re: #468 Decatur Deb

Actually, I was describing the whole threadlet. You assume I don’t like Fidel.

I think the real question is do you like cigars?

473
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:26:59pm

re: #459 Belafon

And how do you get there? By putting millions out of work while the economy magically rearranges itself? Where are you going to pay for the long term unemployment benefits if the millions of the health care industry sheds that many jobs? And too much debt, by the way, will cause an increase in inflation, which, if it gets too large, will have a major impact on the poor (I believe our inflation is actually low, and could stand to be raised, but it can be too high).

You aren’t putting millions of people out of work overnight, most would probably work for a socialist health care program, the rest would find new jobs or use free education and training to re-train. I don’t see why you think that is what we should be talking about when there are still millions of people many of them children that have no access to health care.

Adding to the debt causes inflation? So where has that inflation been ?

usinflationcalculator.com

As you can see, the huge increases to the national debt has not translated into huge increases in inflation. This is, again, another free market conservative myth that was proven wrong a long time ago.

474
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:27:30pm

re: #467 klys (maker of Silmarils)

You can come join me in the DINO camp.

We’re cool, because we have T-Rex.

With those little, tiny fingers!

475
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:27:34pm

re: #457 Shimshon

Oh okay people just using words like “Fidel’s cigar” and other slurs to call me a Communist are just not directed at me and/or overzealous staffer.

476
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:28:00pm

re: #461 goddamnedfrank

We are talking about progress, right now, you’re just being an enormous asshole about it.

Getting called a Communist and trying to make purity tests is not being an asshole? Must be nice to never have to reflect on the attitude of you and your friends while always judging the other side.

477
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:28:05pm

re: #472 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I think the real question is do you like cigars?

Well enough for others to smoke, but those little mohel-things give me the creeps.

478
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:28:32pm

Anyway, at least this thread has clarified a few things.

Mostly not necessarily helpful things, but it’s good to know where to spend my time and attention.

And I did get my hour on the elliptical, so there was progress there.

479
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:29:29pm

re: #476 Shimshon

Getting called a Communist and trying to make purity tests is not being an asshole? Must be nice to never have to reflect on the attitude of you and your friends while always judging the other side.

You’re the only person who’s used the term Communist in this thread.

480
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:30:02pm

re: #479 goddamnedfrank

You’re the only person who’s used the term Communist in this thread.

NUH UH, YOU USED IT NOW.

481
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:30:21pm

And the asshole and snark comments continue. It appears the people who have taken up the job of proclaiming what the Democratic party now stands for, and refusing to accept its progressive history, are unable to debate beyond crying about purity tests, the magic of the free market, and calling someone a Red. I guess I stumbled on Free Republic-lite. My mistake.

482
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:30:37pm

The people on this board have been conflating thebern with some deeply held principles that all progressives have as some pie in the sky nonsense and if you don’t see how insulting that is, I don’t know what to say to you. (I voted for Hillary in the primary BTW).

483
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:11pm

re: #480 klys (maker of Silmarils)

NUH UH, YOU USED IT NOW.

Touché, wicked bern.

484
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:12pm

re: #478 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Anyway, at least this thread has clarified a few things.

Mostly not necessarily helpful things, but it’s good to know where to spend my time and attention.

And I did get my hour on the elliptical, so there was progress there.

What I learned this week is that if you’re only jogging two days a week, DON’T skip one! Suffering will appear at the next one.

485
scottslemmons  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:14pm

In happier news, I finished reading this over the weekend, and it was pretty great.

Instagram

I just finished reading “A Slip of the Keyboard” by Terry Pratchett. Yay for reading! :)

There was a bit of repetition here and there — once he hits the chapters where we’re getting into the many articles and speeches that Pratchett did about Alzheimer’s and the Right to Die, he tells some stories over and over, just because they’re really good stories to tell. There are also some amazing essays in here about wizards vs. witches, hats, book signing tours, orangutans, his favorite books (his own and others’) and much more. Worth reading, if you can find it.

486
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:27pm

re: #433 Decatur Deb

Gone for a week and come back to find lizards measuring their dicks against Fidel’s cigar.

re: #479 goddamnedfrank

You’re the only person who’s used the term Communist in this thread.

uh huh…

487
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:30pm

re: #476 Shimshon

You are making me, who has on again, off again issues with emotional control and stability, look completely and totally rational. Walk back what you are doing.

And I am to the left of Bernie, and I support Clinton. We need to practice the long game on most of these issues, will keeping the debt stable, or even dropping it down some.

488
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:39pm

Jeebus Christ. A guy gets sidetracked for an hour and the whole thread goes to Hell. Buncha Communists.

489
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:48pm

re: #481 Shimshon

And the asshole and snark comments continue. It appears the people who have taken up the job of proclaiming what the Democratic party now stands for, and refusing to accept its progressive history, are unable to debate beyond crying about purity tests and calling someone a Red. I guess I stumbled on Free Republic-lite. My mistake.

Wow, the melodrama! Chill.

490
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 2:31:55pm
There are two progressive camps, incrementalists and whatever the opposite of incrementalist is, over how changes should be implemented. Not only has Clinton got the support of minorities, but I think most incrementalists support her, whereas the other group supports Sanders. The Sanders supporters tend to be in the “anything is possible, therefore take a big chance” crowd. Clinton supporters would rather win really small than try to take a big chance and fail. Both sides have their issues, but I am an incrementalist.

I agree with Belafon.

491
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:32:29pm

re: #486 Shimshon

uh huh…

Proving yourself wrong and self-centered.

492
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:32:31pm

re: #484 wrenchwench

What I learned this week is that if you’re only jogging two days a week, DON’T skip one! Suffering will appear at the next one.

I still need to order running sandals. Why do my feet hate shoes? They must be communists.

493
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:07pm

re: #481 Shimshon

And the asshole and snark comments continue. It appears the people who have taken up the job of proclaiming what the Democratic party now stands for, and refusing to accept its progressive history, are unable to debate beyond crying about purity tests and calling someone a Red. I guess I stumbled on Free Republic-lite. My mistake.

494
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:12pm

re: #489 blueraven

Wow, the melodrama! Chill.

Just making true statements, I’ve had a dozen people shouting me down and snarky comments about me without quoting or debating me all because I dare to point out the progressive ideology that seems to be forgotten in the Democratic party. Looks like I picked the wrong day to come here it must be Free Republic-lite day. I’ll let you all enjoy the rest of the day.

495
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:48pm

re: #492 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I still need to order running sandals. Why do my feet hate shoes? They must be communists.

At least the left foot.

496
Shimshon  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:50pm

re: #493 Dr. Matt

[Embedded image]

re: #491 wrenchwench

Proving yourself wrong and self-centered.

And I’m the purity testing asshole right

497
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:54pm

re: #494 Shimshon

Just making true statements, I’ve had a dozen people shouting me down and snarky comments about me without quoting or debating me all because I dare to point out the progressive ideology that seems to be forgotten in the Democratic party. Looks like I picked the wrong day to come here it must be Free Republic-lite day. I’ll let you all enjoy the rest of the day.

But that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

498
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 2:33:55pm

re: #482 TK-421

I think people are more upset at the lack of a plan for how to get to the end goal, along with behaviour of Bernie Supporters, than the Progressive things that must be done. Major reforms take time, and revolutions almost never work, and certainly never immediately.

499
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 2:34:19pm

Politics; it’s mostly about persuasion.

500
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:34:23pm

re: #494 Shimshon

Just making true statements, I’ve had a dozen people shouting me down and snarky comments about me without quoting or debating me all because I dare to point out the progressive ideology that seems to be forgotten in the Democratic party. Looks like I picked the wrong day to come here it must be Free Republic-lite day. I’ll let you all enjoy the rest of the day.

Bye Felicia.

501
Belafon  May 9, 2016 • 2:34:37pm

re: #473 Shimshon

Here’s the sequence I see:
President Sanders signs a bill creating a socialized health care system. It’ll take probably 3 to 4 years to set up.
The stock market, seeing that the insurance companies will no longer be profitable, pull money out of those companies.
Having no money, the companies close.
Now we have to fill in a three year gap. Which is a lot of paychecks.

502
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 2:34:44pm

re: #481 Shimshon

And the asshole and snark comments continue. It appears the people who have taken up the job of proclaiming what the Democratic party now stands for, and refusing to accept its progressive history, are unable to debate beyond crying about purity tests, the magic of the free market, and calling someone a Red. I guess I stumbled on Free Republic-lite. My mistake.

503
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:35:36pm

re: #494 Shimshon

Just making true statements, I’ve had a dozen people shouting me down and snarky comments about me without quoting or debating me all because I dare to point out the progressive ideology that seems to be forgotten in the Democratic party. Looks like I picked the wrong day to come here it must be Free Republic-lite day. I’ll let you all enjoy the rest of the day.

You’re so vain, I bet you think this thread is about you.

504
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:35:58pm

Politics gets peoples dander up, were all (heh) adults here.

505
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:36:18pm

re: #496 Shimshon

And I’m the purity testing asshole right

You’re the one who is too pure to hang around and learn who you’re insulting.

506
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:37:18pm

re: #482 TK-421

The people on this board have been conflating thebern with some deeply held principles that all progressives have as some pie in the sky nonsense and if you don’t see how insulting that is, I don’t know what to say to you. (I voted for Hillary in the primary BTW).

“Idealism increases in direct proportion to one’s distance from the problem.”
-John Galsworthy

I’m simply tempering my progressive principals against what I see as real world risk. Risk that is primarily being incurred on behalf of people other than myself, incredibly vulnerable minority communities who are thus far overwhelmingly rejecting the candidate advocating we take that risk. In spite of my feelings about Sanders capability to enact his plan I still back the policies, but I will not gamble with other people’s lives when those same people refused to cosign onto the plan.

507
Jack Burton  May 9, 2016 • 2:37:42pm
508
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:37:46pm

There are times where it’s really clear that someone just KNOWS WHAT THEY KNOW and no amount of discussion is going to change their mind. At that point, why bother? I’m here for my entertainment, not yours, and snarky comments offer more amusement than getting worked up over a discussion that’s going to go nowhere.

509
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:38:17pm

re: #506 goddamnedfrank

You’re preaching to the choir with me. I’ve been incrementally waiting for decades.

510
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:38:18pm

re: #508 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There are times where it’s really clear that someone just KNOWS WHAT THEY KNOW and no amount of discussion is going to change their mind. At that point, why bother? I’m here for my entertainment, not yours, and snarky comments offer more amusement than getting worked up over a discussion that’s going to go nowhere.

If I want garbage talk, I’ll /join Trade.

511
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:38:40pm

It’s been a long time since we had a quality flounce.

512
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 2:38:44pm

re: #481 Shimshon

And the asshole and snark comments continue. It appears the people who have taken up the job of proclaiming what the Democratic party now stands for, and refusing to accept its progressive history, are unable to debate beyond crying about purity tests, the magic of the free market, and calling someone a Red. I guess I stumbled on Free Republic-lite. My mistake.

Feel free to leave. The door is over there ———>

Neighbor, you came in, stated an opinion and got called on it. Either back it up with some hard facts or give it up. I learned a long time ago that the Lizard Nation does not suffer fools lightly.

513
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:39:13pm

re: #509 TK-421

You’re preaching to the choir with me. I’ve been incrementally waiting for decades.

And you are closer than you have ever been, if we don’t fuck it up.

514
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:39:14pm

re: #507 Jack Burton

Heh. I did that a couple weeks back.

515
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:39:20pm

re: #467 klys (maker of Silmarils)

You can come join me in the DINO camp.

We’re cool, because we have T-Rex.

As long as you don’t ask me to build you an Indominus rex*

*The Big Bad, Genetically-Engineered dion from Jurassic World, in case you hadn’t seen it.

516
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:39:57pm

re: #515 Blind Frog Belly White

As long as you don’t ask me to build you an Indominus rex*

*The Big Bad, Genetically-Engineered dion from Jurassic World, in case you hadn’t seen it.

But but but but …why you gotta ruin my fun.

(No, I haven’t seen it. >.>)

517
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:40:46pm

re: #513 Decatur Deb

And you are closer than you have ever been, if we don’t fuck it up.

Don’t blame me, I voted for Hillary.

518
EPR-radar  May 9, 2016 • 2:41:12pm

re: #508 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There are times where it’s really clear that someone just KNOWS WHAT THEY KNOW and no amount of discussion is going to change their mind. At that point, why bother? I’m here for my entertainment, not yours, and snarky comments offer more amusement than getting worked up over a discussion that’s going to go nowhere.

Personally, I’d like to read some fairy tales about how referring to relatively moderate Democrats as Republicans is often persuasive in helping them feel the Bern.

519
sagehen  May 9, 2016 • 2:41:17pm

re: #501 Belafon

Here’s the sequence I see:
President Sander’s signs a bill creating a socialized health care system. It’ll take probably 3 to 4 years to set up.
The stock market, seeing that the insurance companies will no longer be profitable, pull money out of those companies.
Having no money, the companies close.
Now we have to fill in a three year gap. Which is a lot of paychecks.

Not just the insurance company employee paychecks. There’s those policyholders who need to figure out how to negotiate one-on-one with whatever doctors or hospitals or testing labs or pharmaceutical company they need to keep their alive and healthy until the new system is up and running…

520
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:41:18pm

re: #517 TK-421

Don’t blame me, I voted for Hillary.

Don’t forget to do it again in November.

521
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:41:42pm

re: #515 Blind Frog Belly White

As long as you don’t ask me to build you an Indominus rex*

*The Big Bad, Genetically-Engineered dion from Jurassic World, in case you hadn’t seen it.

I saw that movie the other night. Should’ve been called Douchebags and Dinosaurs. Was there even a single likable character? I guess Omar Sy was alright.

522
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:41:46pm

I suppose I should thank you.

523
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:42:25pm

re: #517 TK-421

Don’t blame me, I voted for Hillary.

I tried to vote for Bernie, because an Alabama vote is just for FU effect. I muffed the ballot, and didn’t bother to change it.

524
Great White Snark  May 9, 2016 • 2:42:43pm

Some days I really feel the indy vibe. Like today.

The assumption that government or industry will do the better job by nature is a veiled falsehood. Examples abound of failures and successes with both management styles.

What really matters is good strong checks and balances like adequate funding sources, regulations, and effective managers. If there is not enough money or resources, the mission fails proportionately. Neither private industry nor democratic governance can make it rain as needed.

But the political / ideological side is a highly effective distraction from whats real especially in election years. Party loyalists have at it. Just remember when something comes up short, and it always does… fixing the problem is far more important than fixing the blame, especially ideology v ideology or party v party. IOW-If your car is overheating check the water before you re paint.

525
scottslemmons  May 9, 2016 • 2:43:21pm

Y’aaaaawll, I went and posted a picture of a Terry Pratchett book to get y’all talking about something else, and you completely ignored it. I am disappoint. Everyone get to talking about their favorite Pratchett books and scenes and characters and movies and suchlike, lest I must summon Mistress Weatherwax to sort y’all out.

526
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:43:55pm

My son is learning to shoot a BoomCo (Nerf knockoff) pistol in the house. He’s alarmingly good at it. I think a gun safety course with Papaw may be in order.

527
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:44:05pm

re: #525 scottslemmons

I really liked the Discworld computer game with the voice acting done by Eric Idle.

528
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 2:44:06pm

re: #515 Blind Frog Belly White

As long as you don’t ask me to build you an Indominus rex*

*The Big Bad, Genetically-Engineered dion from Jurassic World, in case you hadn’t seen it.

As long as you don’t do genetically enhanced sharks. They are even tougher then Samuel L. Jackson.

RBS

529
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:44:32pm

re: #528 Reality Based Steve

As long as you don’t do genetically enhanced sharks. They are even tougher then Samuel L. Jackson.

RBS

But are they tougher than genetically enhanced Samuel L. Jackson?

530
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:45:01pm

I agree with much of shimsons points, but insulting lizards is no good. You also have to conceded the pile on here can be a little overwhelming. Of course thongs won’t happen overnight, doesn’t mean we can’t have competing strategies.

531
Tigger2  May 9, 2016 • 2:45:38pm
532
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 9, 2016 • 2:46:20pm

re: #530 TK-421

I agree with much of shimsons points, but insulting lizards is no good. You also have to conceded the pile on here can be a little overwhelming. Of course thongs won’t happen overnight, doesn’t mean we can’t have competing strategies.

I think most people didn’t get mad until he started telling people they were Democrats in name only. In general, that’s just kind of an asshole move and it’s the second time in a week or so that he’s done it.

I know I couldn’t have given two shits about the discussion otherwise.

533
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:46:51pm

re: #494 Shimshon

Just making true statements expressing an opinion, I’ve had a dozen people shouting me down disagreeing with me and snarky comments about me without quoting or debating me all because I dare to point out the progressive ideology that seems to be forgotten in the Democratic party make hyperbolic assertions without support. Looks like I picked the wrong day to come here it must be Free Republic-lite Support Your Assertions With Cogent Argument day. I’ll let you all enjoy the rest of the day.

FTFY

534
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:46:53pm

re: #530 TK-421

I agree with much of shimsons points, but insulting lizards is no good. You also have to conceded the pile on here can be a little overwhelming. Of course thongs won’t happen overnight, doesn’t mean we can’t have competing strategies.

We only really get in pile-on mode if you’re being dense or insulting, though. We don’t really break it out except on rare occasions. I agree that, like many established communities, coming in as an “outsider” and feeling piled on can be intimidating and/or insulting, but - that’s why you observe the community and observe the rules before joining and contributing. You should know the waters before jumping into the shark pool.

535
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 2:47:07pm

re: #486 Shimshon

uh huh…

Decatur Deb’s comment wasn’t addressed to you. He even made that clear in his #468. The fact that you seized on it as a personal insult is interesting. Maybe take a step back and reflect on how effective you’ve been here at influencing others to your point of view, and whether the fault truly lies with the group.

536
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 2:48:17pm

re: #522 Dr. Matt

I suppose I should thank you.

[Embedded image]

You off of it.

537
EPR-radar  May 9, 2016 • 2:48:21pm

re: #524 Great White Snark

A serious partisan may not accept that there’s a real difference between fixing the problem and fixing the blame. E.g., my personal view is that disasters like the Katrina response and the Flint water mess are such an inherent feature of GOP governance that the “lessons learned” part of fixing the problem simply has to include ‘don’t vote Republican’.

538
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 2:49:09pm

re: #534 thedopefishlives

I joined right after Charles jumped ship (from the right), it was quite colorful back then. Especially in the morning.

539
Dr. Matt  May 9, 2016 • 2:49:33pm

re: #536 Bubblehead II

You off of it.

:) Thanks.

540
EPR-radar  May 9, 2016 • 2:50:12pm

re: #538 TK-421

I joined right after Charles jumped ship (from the right), it was quite colorful back then. Especially in the morning.

The morning wingnut wave.

541
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 2:50:19pm

Image: tumblr_n5qeesuAYF1t3ml1po1_500.gif

Hoo-wee, I had no idea “I have friends who are engineers at Boeing, and I don’t want them to be out on the street overnight” was such a contentious position.

542
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 2:50:36pm

re: #538 TK-421

I joined right after Charles jumped ship (from the right), it was quite colorful back then. Especially in the morning.

Bahahaha, I was such a different person then. I was in the middle of my moderate conversion at that time, so I mostly just sat back and observed. Mornings were interesting, and the chat room that we had was always colorful. I’m actually kinda glad Charles made threads more chat-like with Spy mode; I feel more engaged with the community and the discussion.

543
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 2:51:38pm

re: #540 EPR-radar

The morning wingnut wave.

Had no trouble enjoying that bunch, then again my FIL was Archie Bunker.

544
Great White Snark  May 9, 2016 • 2:52:33pm

Two facts I just can’t accept in the presence of one another.

1. The number of U.S. Army soldiers on active duty has been reduced to its lowest since 1940, according to a published report.
The Army Times reported this weekend that the Army’s end strength for March was 479,172. That’s 154 fewer soldiers than the service’s previous post-World War II low, which was reached during the Army’s post-Cold War drawdown in 1999.

2. The U.S. military budget is $773.5 billion for FY 2017

545
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 2:54:14pm

re: #521 goddamnedfrank

I saw that movie the other night. Should’ve been called Douchebags and Dinosaurs. Was there even a single likable character? I guess Omar Sy was alright.

Yeah. There was a lot of “Let’s split up. We’ll cover more ground”-kind of actions, like

Hey, we THINK the gigantic, genetically engineered killing machine that can run as fast as a car escaped it’s enclosure, so while you guys go in and have a look, I’m going to drive away with my windows open, because the fucking phone in the fucking observation room at the fucking enclosure JUST ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH!

546
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 2:55:27pm

ross doubthat finds an acorn:

Finally, Trump proved that many professional True Conservatives, many of the same people who flayed RINOs and demanded purity throughout the Obama era, were actually just playing a convenient part. From Fox News’ 10 p.m. hour to talk radio to the ranks of lesser pundits, a long list of people who should have been all-in for Cruz on ideological grounds either flirted with Trump, affected neutrality or threw down their cloaks for the Donald to stomp over to the nomination. Cruz thought he would have a movement behind him, but part of that movement was actually a racket, and Trumpistas were simply better marks.

547
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 2:56:57pm

re: #544 Great White Snark

Two facts I just can’t accept in the presence of one another.

It would be interesting to know to what extent this reflects a more efficient utilization of our people, and to what extent a less efficient utilization of our money. Bombers don’t have dedicated radio operators anymore, but that doesn’t mean they’re worse at dropping bombs.

Presumably a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. Certainly I’ve seen my fair share of military-industrial waste.

548
Dave In Austin  May 9, 2016 • 2:57:20pm

NewThread! New Thread! New Thread!!

This animal is mauling my phone…..

549
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 2:58:47pm

re: #544 Great White Snark

Two facts I just can’t accept in the presence of one another.

1. The number of U.S. Army soldiers on active duty has been reduced to its lowest since 1940, according to a published report.
The Army Times reported this weekend that the Army’s end strength for March was 479,172. That’s 154 fewer soldiers than the service’s previous post-World War II low, which was reached during the Army’s post-Cold War drawdown in 1999.

2. The U.S. military budget is $773.5 billion for FY 2017

Military Contractors

550
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 2:58:50pm

re: #548 Dave In Austin

NewThread! New Thread! New Thread!!

This animal is mauling my phone…..

Maybe your phone needs some mauling.

/

551
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  May 9, 2016 • 2:59:04pm

The Defeat of True Conservatism

i have to say i totally agree with ross’s analysis here

552
dangerman  May 9, 2016 • 2:59:38pm

While this discussion of health insurance / health care, etc. is going on, and how to get from here to there - and where exactly “there” is, and what effect it will have on the economy and industries, and how easy / hard it will be to do it fast, slow, in between, and on and on, I’d note that there’s a whole ‘nother wrinkle:

a significant part of the population that does not consider any of this a proper role for the U.S. government at all.

553
EmmaAnne  May 9, 2016 • 3:00:13pm

re: #525 scottslemmons

Y’aaaaawll, I went and posted a picture of a Terry Pratchett book to get y’all talking about something else, and you completely ignored it. I am disappoint. Everyone get to talking about their favorite Pratchett books and scenes and characters and movies and suchlike, lest I must summon Mistress Weatherwax to sort y’all out.

My daughter and I met him at a book signing once. He was awesome and funny and charming. He already wasn’t in the greatest of health, but he listened to my daughter’s question and discussed it with her as an equal. I am still in mourning a little.

554
Patricia Kayden  May 9, 2016 • 3:02:22pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

That makes him a better husband! Open minded! New information!

And a better husband to a plethora of women so more than one woman gets the joy of being married to him. Such a gem! And so thoughtful.

555
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 3:02:22pm

re: #552 dangerman

While this discussion of health insurance / health care, etc. is going on, and how to get from here to there - and where exactly “there” is, and what effect it will have on the economy and industries, and how easy / hard it will be to do it fast, slow, in between, and on and on, I’d note that there’s a whole ‘nother wrinkle:

a significant part of the population that does not consider any of this a proper role for the U.S. government at all.

No problem, we’ll lure them back to the Dem ranks with our passionate defense of the Second Amendment.

556
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:03:55pm

re: #525 scottslemmons

Y’aaaaawll, I went and posted a picture of a Terry Pratchett book to get y’all talking about something else, and you completely ignored it. I am disappoint. Everyone get to talking about their favorite Pratchett books and scenes and characters and movies and suchlike, lest I must summon Mistress Weatherwax to sort y’all out.

I guess I have to get started. Many, many years ago, when the Science Fiction Book Club walked the Earth, I failed to mail the card back on time and they sent me the first Discworld book. I said basically WTF is this? and never read it. Apparently my reaction was too hasty, but it looks like I’m way behind….

557
Timothy Watson  May 9, 2016 • 3:04:03pm

Sometimes I really wish there was a Hell for such a piece of fucking shit:

A day after the assault, Victim A’s foster mom noticed the cut on his head. She pestered him about what happened. And when he told her, she and her husband — who owned a local bowling alley and knew many high-ranking school officials — called Penn State against his wishes. “I was blindsided,” he said, adding that his foster father told him, “I assure you the police won’t be called, but you gotta tell these people what happened.”

He found himself on the phone with two men from Penn State.

“I tell them what happened — well, I couldn’t get it out of me that I was — I can’t even tell it to this day. It’s just degrading — that I was raped,” he said.

“I told the story up to a certain point. I told them that he grabbed me and that I got the hell out of there.”

He insisted that he “made it very clear” it was a sexual attack.

“I made it clear there were things done to me that I just can’t believe could have been done to me and I couldn’t escape. I said, ‘I’m very upset and scared and I couldn’t believe I let my guard down.’ They listened to me. And then all hell broke loose.

“They were asking me my motive, why I would say this about someone who has done so many good things.”

They accused him of making it up. “‘Stop this right now! We’ll call the authorities,’” he said they told him.

Victim A says he couldn’t think. “I just wanted to get off the phone.”

The men on the phone had introduced themselves as Jim and Joe, he said. He had no idea who Jim was, and can’t, to this day, say for sure.

“There was no question in my mind who Joe was,” he said. “I’ve heard that voice a million times. It was Joe Paterno.”

cnn.com

558
The globulosus alpuzzzzz from Wisconsin  May 9, 2016 • 3:05:30pm

re: #503 Decatur Deb

You’re so vain, I bet you think this thread is about you.

Were there clouds in your coffee? Clouds, in your coffee?

559
dangerman  May 9, 2016 • 3:06:30pm

re: #555 Decatur Deb

No problem, we’ll lure them back to the Dem ranks with our passionate defense of the Second Amendment.

and the perks:
free medical for all the accidental discharge injuries

560
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:06:32pm

re: #544 Great White Snark

Two facts I just can’t accept in the presence of one another.

1. The number of U.S. Army soldiers on active duty has been reduced to its lowest since 1940, according to a published report.
The Army Times reported this weekend that the Army’s end strength for March was 479,172. That’s 154 fewer soldiers than the service’s previous post-World War II low, which was reached during the Army’s post-Cold War drawdown in 1999.

2. The U.S. military budget is $773.5 billion for FY 2017

Mechanization. We don’t need as many people to kill the same number of enemies. And that mechanization is very expensive.

The thing is, we are trying to make war as low-risk to our soldiers as possible, which is laudable. But in doing so we reduce the cost (in lives) of going to war, which makes it an easier thing to contemplate, since it’s only the other side doing the dying.

561
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 3:06:56pm
562
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 3:07:38pm

re: #561 goddamnedfrank

What a fucking piece of shit. Sorry, not sorry.

563
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 3:08:07pm

re: #561 goddamnedfrank

And she just went into evil territory.

564
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 3:10:26pm

re: #563 Ziggy_TARDIS

And she just went into evil territory.

As if screwing a transvestite transexual from Transylvania wasn’t bad enough.

565
The Vicious Babushka  May 9, 2016 • 3:11:17pm

Someone tell Baby Whiplash that women do not view other women’s pee equipment in the ladies’ restroom because it’s all private stalls.

566
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:11:31pm

re: #564 Decatur Deb

As if screwing a transvestite transexual from Transylvania wasn’t bad enough.

I thought Brad was the one who did that. Janet screwed Rocky.

567
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 3:11:48pm

re: #561 goddamnedfrank

I missed the announcement of Progressives Are Bad At Politics Day.

568
Jebediah, RBG  May 9, 2016 • 3:12:51pm

re: #277 Blind Frog Belly White

Instant Shawarma’s gonna get you…

569
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:13:01pm

re: #561 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I’m not expressing any wishes one way or another, but watching that video of tRump’s speech at the Lynden fairgrounds, the guy does not look healthy at all. Can you imagine the conspiracy theories if he keels over before the election?

570
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:13:11pm

re: #567 jaunte

I missed the announcement of Progressives Are Bad At Politics Day.

It’s like when you’re a kid, and you ask your Mom, “If there’s a Mother’s Day and a Father’s Day, why isn’t there a Children’s Day?”, and she replied, “EVERY DAY is Children’s Day!”

571
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:13:11pm

re: #560 Blind Frog Belly White

Mechanization. We don’t need as many people to kill the same number of enemies. And that mechanization is very expensive.

The thing is, we are trying to make war as low-risk to our soldiers as possible, which is laudable. But in doing so we reduce the cost (in lives) of going to war, which makes it an easier thing to contemplate, since it’s only the other side doing the dying.

“We went to war against the Xooshianis and only received 2,000 casualties!”

“How many of them did we kill?”

“Ten million!”

572
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:13:36pm

re: #569 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I’m not expressing any wishes one way or another, but watching that video of tRump’s speech at the Lynden fairgrounds, the guy does not look healthy at all. Can you imagine the conspiracy theories if he keels over before the election?

We keep saying that, and he keeps not keeling over.

573
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 3:13:38pm

re: #566 Blind Frog Belly White

I thought Brad was the one who did that. Janet screwed Rocky.

(hangs head in shame) Losing fogey creds with my granddaughter, who played Columbia in their Little Theater troupe—at 15.

574
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 3:14:02pm

re: #569 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I’m not expressing any wishes one way or another, but watching that video of tRump’s speech at the Lynden fairgrounds, the guy does not look healthy at all. Can you imagine the conspiracy theories if he keels over before the election?

It’s a true nightmare scenario, and not because I like the guy.

Riots in the streets.

575
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 3:14:36pm

re: #565 The Vicious Babushka

Ben Shapiro is going to hurt his brain if he keeps twisting it like that.

576
jaunte  May 9, 2016 • 3:14:53pm

Too late!

577
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:15:08pm

re: #575 jaunte

Ben Shapiro is going to hurt his brain if he keeps twisting it like that.

You assume he has one.

578
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:16:03pm

re: #565 The Vicious Babushka

Someone tell Baby Whiplash that women do not view other women’s pee equipment in the ladies’ restroom because it’s all private stalls.

[Embedded content]

And JUST LIKE THAT, Shapiro snuffs out the tiny, tiny spark of humanity he seemed to have had in leaving Breitbart over their treatment of a fellow reporter.

579
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:16:50pm

I’m really in some pain today. I was unbolting the rear seats in the shop van to carry some gear Sunday and the bolts were about rusted in place. I had a breaker bar on them and was pulling with all my might. Because of the way they were located I was doing most of it with my left arm, and now my upper trapezius muscle is so tight that I can barely turn my head or look that direction.

Been alternating ice and a muscle rub on it. along with some generic Aleve.

I am NOT fond of this at all.

And yes, I know that it’s small potatoes compared to some of you, but I have been super lucky so far in terms of aches and pains.

RBS

580
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:18:25pm

re: #579 Reality Based Steve

I know that feeling quite well. Had it many days working on barn projects when I was a strapping young lad. Nowadays, I’m just glad to get out of my chair and shuffle around the living room for a few turns. Holy crap, I sound old.

581
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 3:18:50pm

re: #579 Reality Based Steve

Tranny fluid and acetone make a great anti seize (70/30). Take a bath with Epsom salts, could help ease the tension.

582
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 3:20:52pm

re: #579 Reality Based Steve

I’m really in some pain today. I was unbolting the rear seats in the shop van to carry some gear Sunday and the bolts were about rusted in place. I had a breaker bar on them and was pulling with all my might. Because of the way they were located I was doing most of it with my left arm, and now my upper trapezius muscle is so tight that I can barely turn my head or look that direction.

Been alternating ice and a muscle rub on it. along with some generic Aleve.

I am NOT fond of this at all.

And yes, I know that it’s small potatoes compared to some of you, but I have been super lucky so far in terms of aches and pains.

RBS

It may be time for The Morphine Song.

Ray Davies - Working Man’s Cafe - Morphine Song

583
Blind Frog Belly White  May 9, 2016 • 3:21:16pm

re: #581 TK-421

Tranny fluid and acetone make a great anti seize (70/30). Take a bath with Epsom salts, could help ease the tension.

Jesus! At first I thought you meant he should use the anti-seize on HIMSELF!

584
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:21:39pm

re: #581 TK-421

Tranny fluid and acetone make a great anti seize (70/30). Take a bath with Epsom salts, could help ease the tension.

Ford-type or Dexron? (Yeah, I’m really dating myself.)

585
calochortus  May 9, 2016 • 3:21:56pm

re: #583 Blind Frog Belly White

Jesus! At first I thought you meant he should use the anti-seize on HIMSELF!

Who knows? Could work…

586
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 3:21:57pm
587
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:22:08pm

re: #584 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Ford-type or Dexron? (Yeah, I’m really dating myself.)

Yes. Pretty much any ATF will work well in that role.

588
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 3:23:06pm

re: #584 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Dexron.

589
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 3:23:17pm
590
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:24:28pm

re: #583 Blind Frog Belly White

Jesus! At first I thought you meant he should use the anti-seize on HIMSELF!

Wait… ok…. let’s not panic. Anybody got the number for poison control? I thought it was like a tonic.

RBS

591
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:26:43pm

re: #588 TK-421

Dexron.

I figured. The difference was, the Ford-type actually generated friction to help the clutches grip. Put it in a GM transmission and it was ruined, wheras if you put Dexron in a Ford transmission, you could replace it and survive.

592
dangerman  May 9, 2016 • 3:27:01pm

re: #587 thedopefishlives

Yes. Pretty much any ATF will work well in that role.

Oh, ATF. I read Tranny fluid and thought. nah I don’t know what I thought.

593
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:27:37pm

re: #591 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I figured. The difference was, the Ford-type actually generated friction to help the clutches grip. Put it in a GM transmission and it was ruined, wheras if you put Dexron in a Ford transmission, you could replace it and survive.

Ah, you mean the old Type F stuff. Yes, I suppose that would be true. For a newer mechanic like me, “Dex/Merc” is the only thing we know.

594
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 3:27:46pm
595
Testy Toad T  May 9, 2016 • 3:28:08pm

re: #592 dangerman

Oh, ATF. I read Tranny fluid and thought. nah I don’t know what I thought.

Ted Cruz has very, very strong feelings about which drains you can pour that into.

596
The Vicious Babushka  May 9, 2016 • 3:28:55pm

re: #575 jaunte

Ben Shapiro is going to hurt his brain if he keeps twisting it like that.

I mean, you would think he’d have something better to do on the day after the birth of his son? Like, oh I dunno, bashing Obama all day long like he did the day his daughter was born.

597
calochortus  May 9, 2016 • 3:29:04pm

re: #594 Kragar

Well, if we all just educated ourselves about… Oh never mind.

598
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:29:29pm

re: #593 thedopefishlives

Ah, you mean the old Type F stuff. Yes, I suppose that would be true. For a newer mechanic like me, “Dex/Merc” is the only thing we know.

I think a few ‘78 Ford pickups were the last holdouts, but you could still get the blue-lid stuff for years after that. Now, I guess not.

599
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:30:07pm

re: #598 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I think a few ‘78 Ford pickups were the last holdouts, but you could still get the blue-lid stuff for years after that. Now, I guess not.

You can get it, but you’re not putting it in anything. Even my big ‘79 Lincoln is specced for Dex/Merc, although the power steering and hydraulic brake assist specifies Type F.

600
blueraven  May 9, 2016 • 3:30:43pm

Damn! These tornadoes in Oklahoma!

601
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 3:31:03pm

Reince has some butt hurt.

But Faux News doing the same thing is just fine.

602
goddamnedfrank  May 9, 2016 • 3:31:18pm

Reported this tweet as a direct threat, call for assassination.

The person, Hend Amry, the user above is targeting goes by @LibyaLiberty on Twitter. She’s awesome.

603
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:31:48pm

re: #599 thedopefishlives

You can get it, but you’re not putting it in anything. Even my big ‘79 Lincoln is specced for Dex/Merc, although the power steering and hydraulic brake assist specifies Type F.

Yeah, but my ‘64 Fairlane wagon would be SOL. I really miss that car….

604
calochortus  May 9, 2016 • 3:32:20pm

re: #601 Bubblehead II

Reince has some butt hurt.

[Embedded content]

But Faux News doing the same thing is just fine.

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a boycott. Knock yourselves out, guys.

605
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 3:34:14pm
606
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:34:32pm

re: #604 calochortus

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a boycott. Knock yourselves out, guys.

Yeah, cesspools of right-wing bullshit like Twitter and Facebook are biassed against Conservatives. Well, just to be safe I’m boycotting them both….

607
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 3:34:38pm

re: #579 Reality Based Steve

I bought a breaker bar from Harbor Freight. I’m afraid to use it so it sits in the box.

608
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:34:45pm

Just came across this…. a live impromptu version of Work Song by Hozier, for some fans after a video shoot.

Hozier - Work Song // Live

RBS

609
Jenner7  May 9, 2016 • 3:35:42pm

re: #608 Reality Based Steve

Love this song…

610
calochortus  May 9, 2016 • 3:36:14pm

re: #606 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yeah, cesspools of right-wing bullshit like Twitter and Facebook are biassed against Conservatives. Well, just to be safe I’m boycotting them both….

I’m not on either of them myself. I rely on hardy Lizards to sort through all the detritus and post the gems here. Thanks guys!

611
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 3:37:23pm

re: #603 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yeah, but my ‘64 Fairlane wagon would be SOL. I really miss that car….

I had a ‘64 Falcon. Bought it for $650 in 1974, sold it for $625 in 1977.

612
Skip Intro  May 9, 2016 • 3:38:26pm

re: #501 Belafon

Here’s the sequence I see:
President Sanders signs a bill creating a socialized health care system. It’ll take probably 3 to 4 years to set up.
The stock market, seeing that the insurance companies will no longer be profitable, pull money out of those companies.
Having no money, the companies close.
Now we have to fill in a three year gap. Which is a lot of paychecks.

Here’s the sequence I see.

Bernie Sanders loses 40 states in November.

Bernie Bros feel good about themselves.

613
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 3:38:27pm

re: #602 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, Hend is awesome. Will report this asshole too.

614
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 3:39:41pm

The bern has no chance though, its all over except the crying.

615
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:39:59pm

re: #607 TK-421

I bought a breaker bar from Harbor Freight. I’m afraid to use it so it sits in the box.

If I had my big 1/2 inch one, I’d have been ok, but all I had was a fairly short 3/8th one, and I was actually pulling it hard enough that it was getting a good flex on it. Turns out a year working at the shop, lifting tanks up by their necks each day has made me a lot stronger than I used to be. I don’t think I could have over-torqued myself like this in the past.

I have a huge 36 inch 3/4 inch drive one I got to break the pinion nut loose on a differential once. Cost me like 12 bucks at the local super discount wholesale hardware place. (Like Harbor, but local owned). Now it leans in the corner and looks bad-assed. :)

RBS

616
Kragar  May 9, 2016 • 3:41:09pm

re: #614 TK-421

Bernie is a bust.

Bernbots hate when you say that.

617
thedopefishlives  May 9, 2016 • 3:42:11pm

re: #615 Reality Based Steve

If I had my big 1/2 inch one, I’d have been ok, but all I had was a fairly short 3/8th one, and I was actually pulling it hard enough that it was getting a good flex on it. Turns out a year working at the shop, lifting tanks up by their necks each day has made me a lot stronger than I used to be. I don’t think I could have over-torqued myself like this in the past.

I have a huge 36 inch 3/4 inch drive one I got to break the pinion nut loose on a differential once. Cost me like 12 bucks at the local super discount wholesale hardware place. (Like Harbor, but local owned). Now it leans in the corner and looks bad-assed. :)

RBS

I busted one once. It was a decent length, decent quality Craftsman 1/2” drive that my dad had in the shop. We were trying to bust lug nuts loose on my neighbor’s tractor. The 1/2” bar seemed to be taking the stress, so we put the cheater pipe on it. Totally split the joint in half. My dad was kinda mad, but it gave him an excuse to get a new 1/2” breaker, so.

618
Patricia Kayden  May 9, 2016 • 3:42:32pm

re: #565 The Vicious Babushka

Funny that Shapiro and his ilk ignore women’s reproductive rights and are hostile to women exercising their right to abortions but yet is so concerned about where we use the toilet. Really Dude?

619
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 3:43:56pm

Found this on Hend’s Twitter. NYT screwed up.

620
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:44:47pm

re: #617 thedopefishlives

I busted one once. It was a decent length, decent quality Craftsman 1/2” drive that my dad had in the shop. We were trying to bust lug nuts loose on my neighbor’s tractor. The 1/2” bar seemed to be taking the stress, so we put the cheater pipe on it. Totally split the joint in half. My dad was kinda mad, but it gave him an excuse to get a new 1/2” breaker, so.

Whistles and looks innocent. Would never put a piece of old black pipe on a wrench, nope, not me.

/checks_if_anybody_buying_it

RBS

621
Patricia Kayden  May 9, 2016 • 3:45:16pm

re: #561 goddamnedfrank

<twitterwidget class=”twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered” id=”twitter-widget-65” data-tweet-id=”729794673267478528” style=”position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;”></twitterwidget>

She really is awful, isn’t she? Senator Sanders needs to denounce this kind of hate speech.

622
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:45:57pm

re: #619 Ziggy_TARDIS

Found this on Hend’s Twitter. NYT screwed up.

[Embedded content]

ROFL…. yea, I see how you could easily type one while you meant the other.

RBS

623
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 9, 2016 • 3:46:38pm

re: #620 Reality Based Steve

Whistles and looks innocent. Would never put a piece of old black pipe on a wrench, nope, not me.

/checks_if_anybody_buying_it

RBS

I have. I thought that’s what “breaker bar” meant. Seriously.

624
Skip Intro  May 9, 2016 • 3:47:40pm

Looks like Track Palin has tied Bristol’s record in creating out of wedlock babies.

This one is coming from his girlfriend Jordan Lowe who he beat the crap out of earlier this year.

You can be the first one to give them something from their registry.

registry.thebump.com

625
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 3:47:47pm

re: #620 Reality Based Steve

Whistles and looks innocent. Would never put a piece of old black pipe on a wrench, nope, not me.

/checks_if_anybody_buying_it

RBS

I have the tube from a floor pump, several seat posts, and a handlebar in my heap of helpers. No pipes.

626
Eventual Carrion  May 9, 2016 • 3:48:00pm

re: #315 thedopefishlives

“Not sure who he is, but he’s sucked for yrs.” What a completely dumbshit thing to say.

Long time caller, first time listener.

627
TK-421  May 9, 2016 • 3:48:01pm

3 blue US made trusty-cook deadblow hammers should be waiting for me at home tonight. Can’t wait to bang on stuff with them.

628
Skip Intro  May 9, 2016 • 3:50:27pm

re: #624 Skip Intro

The happy couple.

629
b_sharp  May 9, 2016 • 3:50:48pm

re: #512 Bubblehead II

Feel free to leave. The door is over there ———>

Neighbor, you came in, stated an opinion and got called on it. Either back it up with some hard facts or give it up. I learned a long time ago that the Lizard Nation does not suffer fools lightly.

WTF.

I go pick up V and when I get back the fan is full of shit.

630
Eric The Fruit Bat  May 9, 2016 • 3:51:32pm

re: #624 Skip Intro

I think we desperately need a long-range non-penetrating vasectomy rifle.

631
Reality Based Steve  May 9, 2016 • 3:52:43pm

re: #624 Skip Intro

Looks like Track Palin has tied Bristol’s record in creating out of wedlock babies.

This one is coming from his girlfriend Jordan Lowe who he beat the crap out of earlier this year.

You can be the first one to give them something from their registry.

registry.thebump.com

Wait, I thought that only uncivilized savage feral youts popped out babys out of wedlock. That’s what the RWNJs all tell me. And that if those children had proper rearing by a good Christian family of 1 Man and 1 Woman things like this wouldn’t happen.

RBS

632
Ziggy_TARDIS  May 9, 2016 • 3:54:58pm

re: #630 Eric The Fruit Bat

From your mouth to DARPA’s ears.

633
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 3:55:05pm

re: #614 TK-421

The bern has no chance though, its all over except the crying.

That’s the only reason I’m giving up my vow of primary non-interference. Bernie had a lot of important things to say, calling the mainstream Democrats to their better side. He said them. Now he’s just being a pain in the ass.

634
Nojay UK  May 9, 2016 • 4:00:09pm

re: #625 wrenchwench

I have the tube from a floor pump, several seat posts, and a handlebar in my heap of helpers. No pipes.

I’ve got a two-metre length of scaffolding tube “helper” which I can stand on to break stubborn wheelnuts loose if they’re problematic. I also have a small pocket blowtorch and penetrating oil, it smells awful but it usually works — heat the nut, apply oil, let it cool, apply oil, heat again, apply more oil then wheel spanner plus “helper” if required. A breaker bar isn’t really the best tool for wheelnuts as the knuckle is more fragile than a standard right-angle wheel wrench or spinner.

I use Copaslip after wire-brushing the threads when I replace the wheelnuts and finish up with a torque wrench to book rather than an air wrench as I’m not being paid by the hour to fettle my own kit.

635
wrenchwench  May 9, 2016 • 4:04:32pm

re: #634 Nojay UK

My favorite wrench.

636
Eric The Fruit Bat  May 9, 2016 • 4:05:28pm

re: #631 Reality Based Steve

Bill the Cat (as Fundamantally Oral Bill, asking forgiveness on TV after a scandal): “God has forgiven me-can’t you?”

Couple on TV: “Let’s send him our son’s college fund.”

637
Decatur Deb  May 9, 2016 • 4:09:43pm

re: #635 wrenchwench

My favorite wrench.

Someone above gave ATF/Acetone as a good volume soak. I’ve seen the same idea—that acetone and all that unusable open brake fluid (50-50) are very close to WD-40.

638
Nyet  May 9, 2016 • 4:51:41pm

So this is one of those “sketchy guy jumps the shark” threads…

639
Bubblehead II  May 9, 2016 • 5:18:46pm

Is that what the Bernie Sanders want?

Cal Smith - Jason’s Farm

640
Eventual Carrion  May 9, 2016 • 5:20:02pm

re: #635 wrenchwench

My favorite wrench.

I’m a Blaster fan.

641
sagehen  May 9, 2016 • 5:35:29pm

re: #636 Eric The Fruit Bat

Bill the Cat (as Fundamantally Oral Bill, asking forgiveness on TV after a scandal): “God has forgiven me-can’t you?”

Couple on TV: “Let’s send him our son’s college fund.”

My dad used to say “maybe God will forgive you, but your mother won’t.”


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