Disgusting but Not Surprising: Senate Rejects All Four Gun Control Measures

America’s shame
US News • Views: 37,988
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Republicans wouldn’t even vote to pass the measures they sponsored themselves today.

Just one more spineless, cowardly day for a group of politicians bought and paid for by the NRA.

The Senate rejected first a Republican proposal to update the background check system for gun purchases, which would have required states to add more information on mental health records to a national database. It also included a provision to alert law enforcement agencies when an individual who was on a government terror watch list in the last five years buys a gun.

The proposal, sponsored by Iowa GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley, failed to get the 60 votes for passage. The vote was 53-47, largely along party lines. Some Senate Democrats warned that the legislation’s revised definition of who would be considered mentally ill could potentially still allow those with significant psychological issues to legally purchase guns.

A second proposal to expand the background check system for those buying guns to require checks at gun shows and for online purchases went down 44-56. Connecticut Democratic Sen. Chris Murphy, who launched a nearly 15-hour filibuster last week to press for new gun restrictions after the Orlando massacre where 49 people were killed, sponsored the proposal.

A Republican proposal to delay gun sales to individuals included on a government terror watch list failed in a mostly party-line vote of 53-47. The measure was sponsored by Texas GOP Sen. John Cornyn. The bill would allow a judge to permanently block a purchase if the court determined probable cause that the individual is involved in terrorist activity.

And a Democratic option that sought to bar all gun sales to those individuals on the terror watch list failed 47-53, the second time the proposal went down to defeat after a mass shooting. California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein originally pushed the proposal in December after a shooting in San Bernardino, and revived it after the horrific Orlando nightclub shooting by a gunman who pledged allegiance to the terror group ISIS.

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440 comments

1
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:25:37pm

Instant repost: [sounds like a cereal]

2
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:26:39pm

If HRC is swamped by nutcase turnout in Nov, this will be why. Don’t get between an addict and his fix in an election year.

3
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:26:43pm

Waiting period for gun purchase: too much of a burden.

Waiting period for an abortion: absolutely required and necessary.

GOP ‘logic.’

4
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:29:06pm

re: #3 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Waiting period for gun purchase: too much of a burden.

Waiting period for an abortion: absolutely required and necessary.

GOP ‘logic.’

Which is so stupid, because if you “need” a gun urgently, it’s either too late, or you are about to do something REALLY FUCKING AWFUL.

5
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:30:23pm
6
mr.fusion  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:30:35pm

Just going to leave this here:

link

Reporting from Washington — The Homeland Security Department announced plans Tuesday to regulate the sale of ammonium nitrate, 16 years after the fertilizer was used to make a bomb that killed 168 people at a federal office building in Oklahoma City.

Under the proposed regulations, anyone who buys, sells or transfers 25 pounds of the chemical must apply to register with the department. Ammonium nitrate facilities must also keep records of sales or transfers of the chemical for at least two years after each transaction.

“Twenty-five pounds of ammonium nitrate would be enough to level a conventional house,” said Dave Williams, a former FBI agent who has studied explosives for 27 years. “So that is a pretty large charge. Regulating 25 pounds — I don’t see a problem with that — but what we’ve gotta consider is, what’s it going to cost” to administer?

7
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:30:49pm

re: #4 InfidelOfFreedom

Which is so stupid, because if you “need” a gun urgently, it’s either too late, or you are about to do something REALLY FUCKING AWFUL.

I mean, it’s at least consistent in that they are trying to place a burden on getting an abortion so that women don’t get them regardless of whether or not they want to, because of cost or time away from the job or whatever, and in the meantime heaven forbid the almighty right to the boomstick be infringed.

In other words, if men could get pregnant, the right to an abortion would be a sacrament.

8
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:31:00pm

re: #3 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Waiting period for gun purchase: too much of a burden.

Waiting period for an abortion: absolutely required and necessary.

GOP ‘logic.’

Makes sense if you only care about hypothetical people.

Actual people and their complexity can fuck right off.

9
stpaulbear  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:32:30pm

So two of those amendments went down with a plurality vote. We need a new senate.

10
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:32:42pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

Replace (or at least compete with) the NRA.

The NRA already has competition, the Gun Owners of America (GOA). They and an smaller group hold that the NRA is a compromise-mongering sellout.

11
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:32:50pm

To which Baby Whiplash said==>

12
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:34:08pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

The NRA already has competition, the Gun Owners of America (GOA). They and an smaller group hold that the NRA is a compromise-mongering sellout.

Let me rephrase: OPPOSE THE NRA.

13
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:35:00pm
14
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:35:21pm
15
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:35:25pm

Going back to the theme from last thread, the thing that struck me funny about the whole Bloomberg article wasn’t just the frustration that dead gays didn’t translate into a bump in the polls. It’s the total fucking disarray of the campaign. It’s worse than amateur night. It’s what you get when somebody is running things who really isn’t very good at running things.

This is they guy who, when asked how he expected to round up and deport 11 Million people without huge disruptions and enormous cost, replied in an oh-so-condescending tone, “It’s called ‘Management’.”

He can’t even manage a 30 29 28-person campaign.

16
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:36:02pm

re: #7 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I mean, it’s at least consistent in that they are trying to place a burden on getting an abortion so that women don’t get them regardless of whether or not they want to, because of cost or time away from the job or whatever, and in the meantime heaven forbid the almighty right to the boomstick be infringed.

In other words, if men could get pregnant, the right to an abortion would be a sacrament.

Yep… available at your local Walgreens.

17
MomSense  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:36:04pm

Did Sanders vote today?

18
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:37:06pm

re: #16 InfidelOfFreedom

Yep… available at your local Walgreens.

Over the counter. On sale everyday.

19
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:37:36pm

Because we know how gun-control-friendly Sanders is.

20
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:37:54pm
21
stpaulbear  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:38:27pm

re: #17 MomSense

Did Sanders vote today?

All of the vote totals add up to 100 so he must have.

22
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:39:02pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

Over the counter. On sale everyday.

And I guarantee you’d never hear a pharmacist’s lecture about their personal beliefs on the matter.

23
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:39:56pm
24
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:40:40pm

re: #22 InfidelOfFreedom

And I guarantee you’d never hear a pharmacist’s lecture about their personal beliefs on the matter.

I would very happily cause a loud, public scene over that, if it ever happened to me.

Not likely these days, but the sentiment stands. You do not get to come between me and my medication.

25
MomSense  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:40:45pm

re: #21 stpaulbear

Thanks. I haven’t seen the roll call yet. Sad that I have to ask, though.

26
Single-handed sailor  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:40:48pm

OT. Yikes, it’s 128 degrees in Palm Desert, California right now.

27
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:43:23pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

The NRA already has competition, the Gun Owners of America (GOA). They and an smaller group hold that the NRA is a compromise-mongering sellout.

Larry Pratt of GoA was on CSPAN a few mornings ago, making the case that citizens should have the right to arm themselves in exactly the way our military does, to even the balance of power.

28
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:43:37pm

re: #26 Single-handed sailor

OT. Yikes, it’s 128 degrees in Palm Desert, California right now.

106 in North Orange County right now, 99 at the beach. It’s one of those days that you open the door and you are hit by a wall of heat. The thermostat in the office can’t get under 80.

29
unproven innocence  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:43:47pm

Early in his presidential campaign, Trump bragged (apparently quoting some other source, of course) that he [Trump] could “shoot someone of Fifth Avenue in broad daylight, and get away with it.” So Fifth Avenue Movement is a name I propose for our gun control sanity movement.

And here I’d thot Trump’s campaign was utterly without any redeeming social value. /

30
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:43:58pm

re: #19 Nyet

Because we know how gun-control-friendly Sanders is.

I don’t know how to write it long-form, but there is something eery in the way that imagined Bernie Sanders exists independent of actual Bernie Sanders, which is driving this kind of stuff.

Much like the gulf betweeen actual Ronald Reagan and legendary Ronald Reagan.

And the more general awfulness of being more interested in the abstract role a person plays, than the actual person.

31
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:47:18pm

re: #7 klys (maker of Silmarils)

In other words, if men could get pregnant, the right to an abortion would be a sacrament.

This really is the essence of the issue.

32
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:47:52pm

re: #30 The Ghost of a Flea

I don’t know how to write it long-form, but there is something eery in the way that imagined Bernie Sanders exists independent of actual Bernie Sanders, which is driving this kind of stuff.

Much like the gulf betweeen actual Ronald Reagan and legendary Ronald Reagan.

And the more general awfulness of being more interested in the abstract role a person plays, than the actual person.

Usually the difference comes with the separation of time (for example we talk about the Framers/Founders as if they all agreed but there were serious disagreements - it wasn’t uncommon for someone to be called a traitor to the revolution regardless of what side they were on). It is strange with Sanders that the split has happened in real time. I suspect some of it is that many of his supporters are ignorant of his actual record so they project their own hopes/dreams/unicornfarts onto Sanders (and that’s probably not a completely uncommon occurrence in politics). It is strange, though.

33
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:48:05pm

re: #14 Kragar

[Embedded content]

34
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:49:01pm

re: #15 Blind Frog Belly White

“management” for Trump undoubtedly consists of deal-making while being the richest person in the room.

This is not a challenge.

35
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:49:33pm

re: #17 MomSense

Did Sanders vote today?

yes

36
MsJ  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:49:34pm

re: #3 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Stolded that.

37
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:50:39pm

re: #36 MsJ

Go for it. I try to keep my Twitter devoid of politics (only the occasional snark sneaks through).

38
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:51:13pm

re: #34 EPR-radar

“management” for Trump undoubtedly consists of deal-making while being the richest person in the room.

This is not a challenge.

That, and not paying your bills, daring your creditors to sue you.

He probably figured he’d “Get Mexico to pay for the Wall” by hiring Mexicans to build it, then not paying them, and deporting them.

39
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:51:51pm

re: #37 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Go for it. I try to keep my Twitter devoid of politics (only the occasional snark sneaks through).

Oh, I can’t imagine THAT!!!
////

40
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:52:11pm

re: #13 Kragar

[Embedded content]

There will be a Viking Funeral in Cleveland this July. The hopes and dreams of the GOP will be thrown into a dumpster, set on fire, and pushed into Lake Erie. And not one tear will be shed by sane people.

As car horns blare, the hopes and dreams of The Cargo Cult drifts off into the distance,…
41
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:52:17pm

re: #37 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Go for it. I try to keep my Twitter devoid of politics (only the occasional snark sneaks through).

I only use my twitter for politics.

42
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:52:19pm

Venezuela is fucked.

43
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:54:33pm

re: #16 InfidelOfFreedom

Yep… available at your local Walgreens.

If men could get pregnant, the idea that the state could legitimately force someone to remain pregnant against his will would be in the Oort cloud of political thought, further out there than a communist utopia.

44
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:54:45pm

re: #41 Tigger2

I only use my twitter for politics.

To each their own. :)

I prefer my political discussions intelligent, which I can get just fine here.

45
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:54:52pm

LOL. A wingnut challenged me to say “something good about George W. Bush”

46
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:56:15pm

re: #42 The Vicious Babushka

Random question, but I appreciate your input. What’s your opinion on the IPF? Moonbatty? Sane? Worth the read?

47
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:56:42pm

re: #44 klys (maker of Silmarils)

To each their own. :)

I prefer my political discussions intelligent, which I can get just fine here.

I’m too windy for Twitter.

48
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:56:43pm

re: #40 nines09

There will be a Viking Funeral in Cleveland this July. The hopes and dreams of the GOP will be thrown into a dumpster, set on fire, and pushed into Lake Erie. And not one tear will be shed by sane people.

[Embedded content]

I’m lazy, pessimistic and cynical. I will make no plans to celebrate a GOP funeral until I see it in the morgue with a tag on its toe.

49
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:57:02pm

re: #44 klys (maker of Silmarils)

To each their own. :)

I prefer my political discussions intelligent, which I can get just fine here.

I don’t have any family members or people I know in the real world on my twitter feed.

50
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:58:28pm

re: #45 The Vicious Babushka

LOL. A wingnut challenged me to say “something good about George W. Bush”

[Embedded content]

He stopped listening to Cheney. That’s gotta be worth SOMETHING.

51
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:59:12pm

re: #46 Stanley Sea

Random question, but I appreciate your input. What’s your opinion on the IPF? Moonbatty? Sane? Worth the read?

What is IPF?
International Powerlifting Foundation?
Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis?

52
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:59:42pm
53
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:59:43pm

re: #50 Blind Frog Belly White

He stopped listening to Cheney. That’s gotta be worth SOMETHING.

He’s not supporting Trump.

54
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:59:52pm

The Library of Congress hasn’t put up the votes yet on the gun bills, but back in 2013 Senator Sanders voted in favour of expanded background checks and assault weapons ban bill. That might be part of his D- rating from the NRA.

55
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:00:00pm

re: #50 Blind Frog Belly White

He stopped listening to Cheney. That’s gotta be worth SOMETHING.

W Bush did not scapegoat Muslims after the 9/11 attacks. That was a very important thing he actually got right.

56
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:00:25pm

re: #51 The Vicious Babushka

What is IPF?
International Powerlifting Foundation?
Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis?

I Pee Freely?

57
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:01:01pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sanders voted in favour of the bill.

58
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:01:30pm

re: #50 Blind Frog Belly White

He stopped listening to Cheney. That’s gotta be worth SOMETHING.

Often blamed Darth Cheney for the evil crap that came out of that administration, but it was misplaced. It was W. Affable fuckups cause far more of the world’s shit than the rare twisted villain.

59
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:01:32pm

re: #55 EPR-radar

W Bush did not scapegoat Muslims after the 9/11 attacks. That was a very important thing he actually got right.

Right. I was adding to VB’s list.

60
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:01:36pm

STFU ya old git

61
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:01:37pm

re: #38 Blind Frog Belly White

That, and not paying your bills, daring your creditors to sue you.

He probably figured he’d “Get Mexico to pay for the Wall” by hiring Mexicans to build it, then not paying them, and deporting them.

That sounds scarily accurate.

62
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:02:33pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

Mark Kirk is the only Republican ‘Yes’ vote. He really is scared about the upcoming general election.

63
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:04:49pm

re: #61 InfidelOfFreedom

That sounds scarily accurate.

Well, you know, some people want the government run like a business…..

64
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:05:24pm

re: #60 Backwoods_Sleuth

Does he ever get tired of pretending to care about people? Give it up John, you’re a Republican, we know you don’t give a shit.

65
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:05:58pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

I’m lazy, pessimistic and cynical. I will make no plans to celebrate a GOP funeral until I see it in the morgue with a tag on its toe.

I’ve seen this movie before. It will rise up as the morgue attendant’s back is turned, rip his face off and walk out into the darkness as the credits roll.///

RBS

66
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:07:05pm

re: #56 Blind Frog Belly White

I Pee Freely?

Hey, you know my Urologist?

RBS

67
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:08:40pm

re: #66 Reality Based Steve

Hey, you know my Urologist?

RBS

Diuretics for hypertension. Works like a charm.

68
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:09:08pm

re: #67 Blind Frog Belly White

I hear you all shouting “TMI! TMI!”

69
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:09:19pm

So can we now say that Hillary moved Bernie to the left on an issue?

Cuz boy am I tired of hearing it in reverse.

70
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:09:27pm

re: #51 The Vicious Babushka

What is IPF?
International Powerlifting Foundation?
Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis?

haha. Guess they’re not much. Israel Policy Forum.

71
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:09:35pm

This fuckin’ guy.

72
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:10:27pm

re: #71 teleskiguy

This fuckin’ guy.

[Embedded content]

Yea, the GOP’s Dream Candidate.

RBS

73
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:10:50pm
74
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:11:30pm

Murdered Blacks. Murdered Children. Murdered Gays. None of this matters to gun humping, NRA-bought, ammosexual assholes. We are so fortunate that Trump is going to bring down this fucking vile and useless party. The adults/Democrats need to take over all three branches for the next 8 years so they can straighten up all the messes these GOP assholes have created.

75
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:11:51pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

I want a visual too. But a hearty bonfire of dreams and hopes can’t hurt.

76
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:12:54pm

re: #60 Backwoods_Sleuth

STFU ya old git

[Embedded content]

77
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:13:38pm

FUCK THIS SHIT

78
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:14:07pm

re: #76 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

Johnnys been singing the same old song so long, he just gets royalty checks.

79
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:15:09pm

let us pause for a moment of AWWWWW CUTENESS!!!

80
MomSense  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:17:05pm

re: #69 InfidelOfFreedom

I hear you.

81
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:17:07pm

re: #77 The Vicious Babushka

FUCK THIS SHIT

[Embedded content]

Saw that earlier today in a WaPo article:

82
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:18:01pm

re: #77 The Vicious Babushka

FUCK THIS SHIT

[Embedded content]

Fucktard is looking for a drudge headline.

83
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:18:01pm

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

84
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:18:10pm

re: #77 The Vicious Babushka

“ISIS mass murderer” my ass. Omar Mateen was as associated with ISIS as I am (i.e., not at all). The 911 call he made makes it perfectly clear that he was naming ISIS et al. just to make his massacre more notorious.

True believers in terrorist ideology don’t make a ‘one from column A, one from column B’ mishmash of their ideology in their moment of (self-perceived) glory.

85
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:18:35pm
86
BK_Dull  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:21:03pm

re: #56 Blind Frog Belly White

I Pee Freely?

I wish I could pee freely.

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:21:15pm

re: #83 Anymouse

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

Yeah. It’s hard to ding the other side for stupid arguments, and then hear arguments as stupid from your own side.

88
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:21:28pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

89
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:21:33pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

You will tell them that if our politicians can walk over the bodies of murdered children and do nothing, your family doesn’t matter to them either. The GOP is the marketing arm of the NRA and business is cracking.

90
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:21:48pm

Representative Steve King (R-IA) filed legislation to block funding the new $20 bill featuring Harriet Tubman:
huffingtonpost.com

That’s the guy that wants me deported.

91
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:22:25pm

My senator is second only to McCain. Gardner’s been in Washington for five years and he’s received almost $4 million from the N.R.A.

92
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:23:37pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The other day, somebody posted a site with how much $ each Senator got from the NRA. I was kinda shocked that both of mine got $0.00. Yet, both of these profiles in courage couldn’t bear to go against the GOP Gun cult. Ugh.

Tim Scott is running this year—not that he’d lose however he fucking voted (we actually have a great candidate running against him, but he’ll never win.) But Lindsey “terrorists and hoards of raving gunmen are coming for you” has no excuse for being such an asshole—other than the fact that he is an asshole.

93
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:24:43pm

re: #83 Anymouse

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

Agreed. Gun control proponents shouldn’t use arguments like that. It’s a self-defeating distraction from things that might actually work.

I’m also leery of arguments predicated on Heller being 100% wrongly decided. The second amendment is ambiguous. There is no way to tell from its text exactly how (if at all) militia service is connected with the right to keep and bear arms. So even if Heller gets reversed, the possibility of that reversal being overturned will never go away.

Furthermore, the militia as understood by the founders is a historical relic that hasn’t been in operation for over a century. Making the second amendment all about the militia just doesn’t seem to make sense.

94
Donkey With No Name  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:24:43pm

re: #83 Anymouse

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

I take the point (and it’s not an argument I personally make), but it’s clear that, practically speaking, we already make a distinction between muskets and nerve gas in a way we don’t between town criers and Twitter. We accept that there are weapons that civilians should not own; the question is where that line is.

95
Joe Bacon  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:25:01pm

Been home since 4PM, too tired to go to the gym today. Here in Koreatown it’s 101. When I opened my apartment door, the main room was at 95. I’ve had the air conditioner going full blast for 1 3/4 hours and the room temperature has gone down to 91…

96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:25:14pm
97
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:25:42pm

I suppose Steve King would favour replacing Jackson with an AR-15 though… .

98
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:27:35pm
99
Big Beautiful Door  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:28:05pm

re: #83 Anymouse

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

Its kind of making fun of rightwinger’s originalism theory of interpreting the Constitution. I don’t think they are serious.

100
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:28:25pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Agreed. Gun control proponents shouldn’t use arguments like that. It’s a self-defeating distraction from things that might actually work.

I’m also leery of arguments predicated on Heller being 100% wrongly decided. The second amendment is ambiguous. There is no way to tell from its text exactly how (if at all) militia service is connected with the right to keep and bear arms. So even if Heller gets reversed, the possibility of that reversal being overturned will never go away.

Furthermore, the militia as understood by the founders is a historical relic that hasn’t been in operation for over a century. Making the second amendment all about the militia just doesn’t seem to make sense.

We know exactly what the writers of the Constitution thought about the militia, because they put it in the Constitution (Article I Section 8 Clauses 15 and 16):

Clause 11:

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12:

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13:

To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14:

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15:

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

101
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:28:29pm

My sphinx.

102
Joe Bacon  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:28:35pm
103
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:28:50pm

re: #94 Donkey With No Name

I take the point (and it’s not an argument I personally make), but it’s clear that, practically speaking, we already make a distinction between muskets and nerve gas in a way we don’t between town criers and Twitter. We accept that there are weapons that civilians should not own; the question is where that line is.

Even that distinction is too much for the Gun Owners of America.

104
Dave In Austin  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:29:24pm

re: #86 b_sharp

Live in the country….. I join the dogs every morning.

105
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:29:50pm
106
BK_Dull  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:30:36pm

re: #101 Stanley Sea

My sphinx.

[Embedded content]

I don’t have a sphinx, but I do have a sphincter. Like to see one?

107
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:30:48pm
108
BK_Dull  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:31:35pm

re: #104 Dave In Austin

Live in the country….. I join the dogs every morning.

My prostate is the problem, not where I live.

It’s like I have to convince it with sweet talk to let me pee.

109
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:32:04pm

The derp over the claim of due process over the no-fly list meaning it shouldn’t be used to prohibit gun purchases is just that; derp.

The solution is to fix the due process problems with the no-fly list.

110
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:32:14pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Making the second amendment all about the militia just doesn’t seem to make sense.

it’s a glaringly obvious poison pill approach. Seriously, all the progressives, liberals, Democrats that really think civilian based militias are a good idea please step up and tell me I’m wrong.

Plus if we think we want the rights and laws in the constitution are actually limited to the technology of the late 1700’s think again please. We would then no longer have any civil protections from surveillance of and technology more advanced than quill pen and paper, and the handset lead type printing press. There would be no such thing as protected speech on radio, let alone the internet. Sedition laws would apply to blogs. Police cameras would be for the prosecution only. FOIA? LOL.

111
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:32:40pm

re: #91 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

My senator is second only to McCain. Gardner’s been in Washington for five years and he’s received almost $4 million from the N.R.A.

Embedded Image

That’s weird—that chart shows Graham got $49,000 and Scott got $17,000. I could swear somebody posted a chart last week where they both had 0.

I haz a confused (but my previous post saying that they’re both assholes still stands)

112
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:34:01pm
113
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:35:35pm

re: #112 Dr. Matt

FFS

[Embedded content]

LOL Millions, I have my doubts.

114
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:36:05pm

politico.com

Tim Cook (CEO of Apple) is going to hold a fundraiser for the GOP with Rep. Paul Ryan.

So much for Mr. Cook’s ballyhooed stance against providing support for Donald Trump.

115
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:36:32pm

re: #83 Anymouse

Reading comments over at Huffington Post on today’s votes, I still see liberals making arguments such as “The II Amendment was only meant for muskets. I think gun ownership should be restricted to muskets.”

I hate that argument every time I see it; it is a bad argument. Societies and technology advance which is why we have a mechanism for laws and amendments. If the II Amendment was only for muskets, the the I Amendment was only for printing presses and town criers.

And yet in the real world there seems to be no argument against guns. In a way it is easy to understand that particular liberal argument as being borne out of pure frustration. Correct you are in it is not rational, but look what they are up against in any gun debate.

116
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:37:24pm

re: #114 Anymouse

That’s a disappointment. Tim Cook should know better then this.

117
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:37:32pm

re: #112 Dr. Matt

FFS

[Embedded content]

“Trained in non-violent protest.”

Too bad no one trained them in voting.

118
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:37:46pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

re: #94 Donkey With No Name

You folks both make good points, though of course they won’t penetrate the true gunfucker’s thick skull.

The Militia as envisioned by the Founders was the first line of defense in a sparsely populated country with a small or no standing army. Each state needed to be able to respond to invasion or insurrection quickly, hence the militia. But, in this era of a highly specialized, volunteer, professional military equipped with the transport it needs to project force worldwide, not just within the country, there no longer exists the need for an armed citizenry to repel the Injuns.

Likewise, very few Americans would accept the idea of privately-owned, armed fighter jets and bombers, privately owned nuclear weapons, etc. Even those who think fully automatic weapons should be less heavily regulated still blanch at the idea actual private armies with capabilities similar to that of the US military. To a great extent, this negates the we need gunz to fight tyranny! argument.

119
Dave In Austin  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:38:12pm

re: #108 b_sharp

Oh, I understand… I’m 62 so I have those watch the sun come up moments.

120
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:38:59pm

re: #117 InfidelOfFreedom

“Trained in non-violent protest.”

Too bad no one trained them in voting.

121
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:39:03pm

re: #108 b_sharp

My prostate is the problem, not where I live.

It’s like I have to convince it with sweet talk to let me pee.

Contemplation of the roto-rooter that is used when patience and meds don’t work anymore is not recommended.

122
GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:39:25pm

But what about WALL STREET?

123
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:40:09pm

re: #116 EPR-radar

That’s a disappointment. Tim Cook should know better then this.

Tim Cook is about Tim Cook. His announcement his company would not support the GOP convention came as the last of a sting of companies that said they wouldn’t do it. It was about advertising.

Now that news is out of the cycle, he is back to supporting the GOP. Cook doesn’t give a hoot about Trump or any of the social derp about bathroom police the GOP pushes, because that doesn’t affect him. What does affect him is taxes. He is just as much minuscule “l” libertarian as the rest of them. Unless it affects him personally, it is not an issue.

124
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:41:31pm

re: #108 b_sharp

My prostate is the problem, not where I live.

It’s like I have to convince it with sweet talk to let me pee.

Private tag because it might be TMI for the younger lizards.

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

125
GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:41:47pm

re: #117 InfidelOfFreedom

No. Thank goodness they weren’t trained in voting.

126
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:41:49pm

re: #112 Dr. Matt

FFS

[Embedded content]

Sanders needs to publicly disown them.

127
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:42:37pm

How much more outright case law proof that Heller is not sweeping existing gun control away does it take for it to be accepted anywhere but on the right? How many dozens or hundreds of gun control laws holding up post Heller makes the truth of it’s limits visible?

Heller took away the worst fears of the far right on guns, as they were thought to be subject to confiscation until the 2nd got upheld as an individual right. Sadly attacks on that ruling have seriously diminished confidence in that landmark ruling. Every powerful voice that calls for a new SCOTUS to overturn it contributes.

OTOH gun rights critics could point at Heller, explain the confiscation/ban fear has been put to rest by that ruling and now we need universal registration. Advertise the legal strength of Heller, start a voluntary Federal registration system to apply peer pressure from the bottom up. IOW be reasonable, you got a huge win. Enjoy it. End the bans, have a purchase/transfer process that’s fair and strict.

128
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:43:17pm

re: #112 Dr. Matt

FFS

[Embedded content]

The dream the impossible dream.
Also, most probably can’t afford the trip to Philly or have other more important stuff to do…

129
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:43:41pm
130
MsJ  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:43:48pm

re: #37 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Go for it. I try to keep my Twitter devoid of politics (only the occasional snark sneaks through).

Alas, that wasn’t snark, it was sad fact.

131
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:43:51pm

re: #128 Backwoods_Sleuth

The dream the impossible dream.
Also, most probably can’t afford the trip to Philly or have other more important stuff to do…

Or they’re grounded.

132
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:44:33pm

re: #110 Great White Snark

it’s a glaringly obvious poison pill approach. Seriously, all the progressives, liberals, Democrats that really thing civilian based militias are a good idea please step up and tell me I’m wrong.

Plus if we think we want the rights and laws in the constitution are actually limited to the technology of the late 1700’s think again please. We would then no longer have any civil protections from surveillance of and technology more advanced than quill pen and paper, and the handset lead type printing press. There would be no such thing as protected speech on radio, let alone the internet. Sedition laws would apply to blogs. Police cameras would be for the prosecution only. FOIA? LOL.

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I still don’t see any major holes in the idea that 2nd amendment rights should be strongly linked to responsibility.

For example, eliminate the legal concept of accidental discharge of a gun. There is only deliberate firing and negligent firing, and if anything goes wrong just follow the ordinary principles of criminal and civil liability as they relate to intentional and negligent acts.

133
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:45:00pm

re: #26 Single-handed sailor

107 here by Universal Studios.

134
Franklin  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:46:05pm

@RepJohnLewis, Jim Lawson, the SNCC, et al trained in the ways of non violent resistance modeled after Gandhi. They suffered beating after humiliating beating in the streets, the bus terminals and at the lunch counters.

These assholes want to go to the convention in Philadelphia and stage fart-ins.

Fuck that.

135
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:46:49pm
136
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:47:20pm
137
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:47:29pm

re: #114 Anymouse

politico.com

Tim Cook (CEO of Apple) is going to hold a fundraiser for the GOP with Rep. Paul Ryan.

So much for Mr. Cook’s ballyhooed stance against providing support for Donald Trump.

He’s supporting down ticket GOP. Any sane huge businessperson supports both parties. I think his stance is even more of a slap. I’ll support everyone but trump.

138
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:47:39pm

re: #128 Backwoods_Sleuth

The dream the impossible dream.
Also, most probably can’t afford the trip to Philly or have other more important stuff to do…

I did like a nickname I saw recently for Bernie—“Done” Quixote.

139
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:48:18pm
140
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:48:27pm

[removed by author]

141
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:49:01pm

No paranoid gun owner is going to buy that because the Supreme Court decided in their favor, they should sign up for universal registration because it’s safe. Why? Because saying that a Supreme Court decision is settled would mean they (seeing how there’s a fair amount of overlap between this group and the GOP) can’t keep pushing on abortion.

I mean, that’s settled too, right?

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:49:06pm
143
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:49:51pm

re: #140 Anymouse

Don’t believe that is actually Shaun King. Check the handle.

144
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:49:52pm

re: #140 Anymouse

Not Shaun King’s twitter account

145
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:50:28pm

re: #140 Anymouse

Shaun King still off the rails. I liked him when he was writing over at Daily Kos about the excesses of some police departments, but he seems to have lost his sense after Senator Sanders came up short in the primaries.

I get the idea of disappointment about supporting a candidate that lost; I have been doing that in every election since President Carter ran for reëlection in 1980. But short of overthrowing the democratic process, you get over it and move on.

[Embedded content]

Not the real Shaun King, I don’t think.

146
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:50:55pm

re: #77 The Vicious Babushka

FUCK THIS SHIT

[Embedded content]

147
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:51:29pm

re: #123 Anymouse

Tim Cook is about Tim Cook. His announcement his company would not support the GOP convention came as the last of a sting of companies that said they wouldn’t do it. It was about advertising.

Now that news is out of the cycle, he is back to supporting the GOP. Cook doesn’t give a hoot about Trump or any of the social derp about bathroom police the GOP pushes, because that doesn’t affect him. What does affect him is taxes. He is just as much minuscule “l” libertarian as the rest of them. Unless it affects him personally, it is not an issue.

Tim Cook is gay. He cannot be clueless about the anti-gay hate mongering of the GOP. So he’s just another Quisling willing for any number of other people to suffer just so his taxes can be a little bit lower.

148
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:51:59pm

OTOH, this is Shaun:

149
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:52:04pm

re: #144 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not Shaun King’s twitter account

I am easy to hoodwink since I am not on Twitter. I will delete the comment.

(I would not be surprised if King felt that way though, and this account does have a million followers).

150
Dave In Austin  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:54:03pm
151
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:54:15pm

re: #149 Anymouse

I am easy to hoodwink since I am not on Twitter. I will delete the comment.

(I would not be surprised if King felt that way though, and this account does have a million followers).

Um, it has 129 followers. (But I agree, it probably mirrors Shaun’s inner thoughts.)

152
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:54:19pm

re: #141 klys (maker of Silmarils)

No paranoid gun owner is going to buy that because the Supreme Court decided in their favor, they should sign up for universal registration because it’s safe. Why? Because saying that a Supreme Court decision is settled would mean they (seeing how there’s a fair amount of overlap between this group and the GOP) can’t keep pushing on abortion.

I mean, that’s settled too, right?

Also they are convinced that lists would be used to round up people’s guns.

153
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:54:45pm

re: #151 BeachDem

Um, it has 129 followers. (But I agree, it probably mirrors Shaun’s inner thoughts.)

A million, 129, that’s close, right? I confused 1m to mean one million, not one minute.

154
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:55:36pm

re: #153 Anymouse

A million, 129, that’s close, right?

What’s 4 orders of magnitude among friends?
//

155
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:56:14pm

The decision “closes a chapter” in the state’s divisive civil rights history, Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood said.

“The evidence has been degraded by memory over time, and so there are no individuals that are living now that we can make a case on at this point,” Hood said.

He said, however, that if new information comes forward because of the announcement that the case is closed, prosecutors could reconsider and pursue a case.

The 1964 killings of James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner in Neshoba County sparked national outrage and helped spur passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. They later became the subject of the movie “Mississippi Burning.”

Monday, their relatives said the focus should not be only on the three men, but on all the people killed or hurt while seeking justice.

“The civil rights period was not about just those three young men,” said the Rev. Julia Chaney Moss, Chaney’s sister and a New Jersey resident. “It was about all of the lives.”

The rest of the article is worth reading.

156
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:56:47pm

re: #153 Anymouse

A million, 129, that’s close, right?

Six of one, 999,871 of another, but who’s counting?

157
Donkey With No Name  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:57:01pm

re: #132 EPR-radar

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I still don’t see any major holes in the idea that 2nd amendment rights should be strongly linked to responsibility.

For example, eliminate the legal concept of accidental discharge of a gun. There is only deliberate firing and negligent firing, and if anything goes wrong just follow the ordinary principles of criminal and civil liability as they relate to intentional and negligent acts.

Oh, I’m completely for this, but I wonder how easy it would be to implement in practice. I’m amazed by the truly impressive desire on the part of a lot of supposedly “responsible” people to ignore fatal gun accidents because, you know, such things happen, and toddlers will be toddlers.

Unfortunately strict responsibility doesn’t address the problem of “person wants to commit mass shooting and has no intention of surviving” - legal consequences clearly aren’t relevant to such people.

158
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:57:13pm
159
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:58:21pm

THERE’S A TORNADO IN SOUTH PARK!

160
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:58:29pm

re: #155 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The rest of the article is worth reading.

And a song worth listening to:

Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney

161
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:58:37pm

re: #127 Great White Snark

How much more outright case law proof that Heller is not sweeping existing gun control away does it take for it to be accepted anywhere but on the right? How many dozens or hundreds of gun control laws holding up post Heller makes the truth of it’s limits visible?

Heller took away the worst fears of the far right on guns, as they were thought to be subject to confiscation until the 2nd got upheld as an individual right. Sadly attacks on that ruling have seriously diminished confidence in that landmark ruling. Every powerful voice that calls for a new SCOTUS to overturn it contributes.

OTOH gun rights critics could point at Heller, explain the confiscation/ban fear has been put to rest by that ruling and now we need universal registration. Advertise the legal strength of Heller, start a voluntary Federal registration system to apply peer pressure from the bottom up. IOW be reasonable, you got a huge win. Enjoy it. End the bans, have a purchase/transfer process that’s fair and strict.

So, what you’re saying is that, after Heller, there’s no way the government could pass a law similar to imminent domain, and confiscate all of the high powered weapons and pay the owners a reasonable price for the guns? Sounds like a loss of ability, right or wrong.

And notice how much the right wing fear went down when that ruling was made, even the fear of Obama coming to take their guns. Absolutely zero.

162
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:59:05pm

re: #137 Stanley Sea

He’s supporting down ticket GOP. Any sane huge businessperson supports both parties. I think his stance is even more of a slap. I’ll support everyone but Trump.

Tim is helping oppose Trump outside and from the inside of the party. Some opposition party people just can’t discern the difference between trying to support change in a party and those that fight for the status quo. In the case of the GOP, most of those people are Democrats rather than indys. Tim is a smart man, I think he deserves some room to work on this as he sees fit. I doubt we will be disappointed with the nature of his effort.

Or some of my Democratic party friends. They try to tell me (despite a half vote never showing up in a result in all of American history) that refusing to vote Trump without promising to vote for HRC is a half vote for Con Man Donald. Srsly? What if my anti Con Man Donald efforts persuade 10 Republican or right leaning friends to decline to vote for Trump, and I don’t demand a vote for Hilary because none of them would have been persuaded if I did so.

Is that 5 for Donald? 1/2 each of 10 that withhold a Presidential vote or write in someone? I don’t think so. Electoral results have never shown such a thing. Non votes are zero votes are one. 1st grade math right?

163
BK_Dull  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:59:48pm

re: #124 Backwoods_Sleuth

Private tag because it might be TMI for the younger lizards.

[Embedded content]

BRVNbRRMtTsbJK0L0LQOFSnN+lz3TWmZeQfd9Ng+sK8n/joh/x5Il0TovO/NAPv9j9XkFEMe4+hE5wYKXJGMkLYeONbuHqC0uCbW059rMHPBkgY/A87jCA==

164
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 5:59:52pm

heh

165
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:01:29pm
166
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:01:31pm
167
Skip Intro  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:02:26pm

re: #60 Backwoods_Sleuth

STFU ya old git

[Embedded content]

This asshole can’t be voted out of office too fast for me. Take a break, John. Drink up and enjoy your wife’s beer. She owns the company, after all.

168
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:02:29pm

re: #141 klys (maker of Silmarils)

No paranoid gun owner is going to buy that because the Supreme Court decided in their favor, they should sign up for universal registration because it’s safe. Why? Because saying that a Supreme Court decision is settled would mean they (seeing how there’s a fair amount of overlap between this group and the GOP) can’t keep pushing on abortion.

I mean, that’s settled too, right?

Gun owners are not the political problem. Not by 95% of them. Take that in. At best, NRA represent 5% of gun owners. And that means yes, what I propose could improve on the shape of the argument as it stands now.

169
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:02:35pm

Some friendly tips for any lizards planning a trip to the U.K.

170
Donkey With No Name  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:02:46pm

Hmm…

A Briton who tried to grab a police officer’s gun at a Donald Trump rally in Las Vegas said he wanted to shoot the candidate, court papers say.

bbc.com

Is there something in the water in the UK these days?

171
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:02:49pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Agreed. Gun control proponents shouldn’t use arguments like that. It’s a self-defeating distraction from things that might actually work.

I’m also leery of arguments predicated on Heller being 100% wrongly decided. The second amendment is ambiguous. There is no way to tell from its text exactly how (if at all) militia service is connected with the right to keep and bear arms. So even if Heller gets reversed, the possibility of that reversal being overturned will never go away.

Furthermore, the militia as understood by the founders is a historical relic that hasn’t been in operation for over a century. Making the second amendment all about the militia just doesn’t seem to make sense.

But there are militias…though not military.

Many formed by groups of paranoid white nationalists, neo-Nazi, off-the-main-road concerned American good guys. They tie into all this too. I am not a historian on such groups, but are they not a part of second amendment thinking/coverage. And weren’t they formed out of the same mindset.

And when the invading hordes come or rise from within, those with their guns can run out and join with your local “militia” and take them on and save America!

172
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:03:16pm

re: #158 gocart mozart

“Manstagram’s” Twitter avatar seems nice… . /s

173
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:04:28pm

re: #168 Great White Snark

Gun owners are not the political problem. Not by 95% of them. Take that in. At best, NRA represent 5% of gun owners. And that means yes, what I propose could improve on the shape of the argument as it stands now.

5% of gun owners, but 100 % of gun companies.

174
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:05:52pm

re: #95 Joe Bacon

Been home since 4PM, too tired to go to the gym today. Here in Koreatown it’s 101. When I opened my apartment door, the main room was at 95. I’ve had the air conditioner going full blast for 1 3/4 hours and the room temperature has gone down to 91…

Damn. That’s warm enough to thaw SenatorJim Inhofe’s snowy cold balls!

175
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:05:54pm

re: #170 Donkey With No Name

Hmm…

bbc.com

Is there something in the water in the UK these days?

Proving there are jobs Americans just won’t do? /s

I don’t want Donald Trump shot of course, or anyone else. I want him buried in the largest election landslide in history.

176
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:06:51pm

re: #162 Great White Snark

They try to tell me (despite a half vote never showing up in a result in all of American history) that refusing to vote Trump without promising to vote for HRC is a half vote for Con Man Donald.

So, if no one votes for Clinton, it won’t cause Trump to win?

You’re counting on their being enough votes for Clinton that people can keep their conscience clean by not voting. Screw that. You don’t like Trump but don’t vote for Clinton, then you voted for Trump. Put up or move to Somalia.

Edit: The “you” is a royal you, not you personally.

177
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:08:14pm

re: #169 gocart mozart

Some friendly tips for any lizards planning a trip to the U.K.

[Embedded content]

LOL!

178
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:09:05pm

re: #175 Anymouse

Proving there are jobs Americans just won’t do? /s

I don’t want Donald Trump shot of course, or anyone else. I want him buried in the largest election landslide in history.

When this is over, I want Barry Goldwater to no longer be “The Biggest Loser”.

RBS

179
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:09:08pm

re: #176 Belafon

So, if no one votes for Clinton, it won’t cause Trump to win?

You’re counting on their being enough votes for Clinton that people can keep their conscience clean by not voting. Screw that. You don’t like Trump but don’t vote for Clinton, then you voted for Trump. Put up or move to Somalia.

It is not a question of voting for the lesser of two evils. It is voting for evil or not evil.

Hillary Clinton is not evil. I would like to believe as a Sanders supporter now all-in for Mrs. Clinton that the noise coming from the 2016 PUMA faction is a tiny minority of people. I want to believe (shout out to the X Files) that the overwhelming majority of Sander’s supporters aren’t that stupid.

180
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:10:20pm

re: #168 Great White Snark

Gun owners are not the political problem. Not by 95% of them. Take that in. At best, NRA represent 5% of gun owners. And that means yes, what I propose could improve on the shape of the argument as it stands now.

I’ll note again my original comment specifically said “paranoid gun owner.”

But whatever. I’m done.

181
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:11:01pm

re: #179 Anymouse

It is not a question of voting for the lesser of two evils. It is voting for evil or not evil.

Hillary Clinton is not evil. I would like to believe as a Sanders supporter now all-in for Mrs. Clinton that the noise coming from the 2016 PUMA faction is a tiny minority of people. I want to believe (shout out to the X Files) that the overwhelming majority of Sander’s supporters aren’t that stupid.

6 out of 7 aren’t that stupid, based on a poll I read of today. It’s still June.

182
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:11:47pm

Ok. it wasn’t bad in Manhattan Beach once the wind kicked in but at my place here in the Long Beach area it’s 102 degrees :(

183
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:12:18pm
184
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:12:53pm

huffingtonpost.com

A Federal judge upheld Mississippi’s anti-LGBT law. His reasoning?

U.S. District Judge Carlton Reeves argued in his four-page order that since none of the lawsuit’s plaintiffs would be harmed by the law in the immediate future, a preliminary injunction would be inappropriate.

“Here, none of the plaintiffs are at imminent risk of injury,” Reeves wrote.

The law allows denial of services to LGBT based on religious objections.

186
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:14:13pm

re: #179 Anymouse

It is not a question of voting for the lesser of two evils. It is voting for evil or not evil.

Hillary Clinton is not evil. I would like to believe as a Sanders supporter now all-in for Mrs. Clinton that the noise coming from the 2016 PUMA faction is a tiny minority of people. I want to believe (shout out to the X Files) that the overwhelming majority of Sander’s supporters aren’t that stupid.

re: #181 Blind Frog Belly White

6 out of 7 aren’t that stupid, based on a poll I read of today. It’s still June.

And I agree. I just don’t think people should be able to get by with “well, I didn’t vote for Trump” because that thinking depends on enough people voting. If you don’t like him, vote for the person who will keep him out of office, because ballots don’t include a “not him” feature.

187
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:14:40pm

re: #161 Belafon

So, what you’re saying is that, after Heller, there’s no way the government could pass a law similar to imminent domain, and confiscate all of the high powered weapons and pay the owners a reasonable price for the guns? Sounds like a loss of ability, right or wrong.

And notice how much the right wing fear went down when that ruling was made, even the fear of Obama coming to take their guns. Absolutely zero.

As I try to point out powerful figures on the left put a chill on those that like Heller. A similar chill in kind to powerful voices on the left RIGHT (sorry for the error) threatening to take down Roe V Wade or some nuts of any description who would re start sedition laws or start putting Muslim American in internment camps. It’s a confidence reducer.

Okay you mean eminent domain right? Like taking property to build a school? That’s not anything like retroactive law which is also unconstitutional, an illegal legal concept if you will. Larry that mendacious idiot from CRPA claimed the new California assault gun law will mean gun already owned and registered will be confiscated. That’s a damn lie. All that law can do is halt sales after a certain date. Maybe prevent transfer in state. if I bought a Colt sporter (Ar-15 type) years ago, legal and straight, I can keep it as long as I live. Even here in Los Angeles or if I lived in Berkeley. They think they can make a nuclear free zone but the also they know for a fact gun confiscation is just as out of reach as expecting the navy to remove any and all nuclear warheads from the vicinity of that odd little town.

If the government (city, state or Federal) passes a gun ban like what DC and Chicago did, the court will overturn it. It happens. Laws are submissive to the constitutional tests. If they fail, they fall.

188
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:14:53pm
189
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:15:12pm
190
Franklin  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:15:16pm

For Amazon Alexa owners, this made me laugh more than it should have:

191
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:15:22pm

Well, Manchin voted with the Dems on this one.

192
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:17:12pm
193
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:19:14pm

re: #180 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’ll note again my original comment specifically said “paranoid gun owner.”

But whatever. I’m done.

I just want to say I limited my comment to the political angle… The 5% (aka paranoid) are not a political force worthy of note. The NRA is they are not.

194
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:20:34pm

re: #147 EPR-radar

Tim Cook is gay. He cannot be clueless about the anti-gay hate mongering of the GOP. So he’s just another Quisling willing for any number of other people to suffer just so his taxes can be a little bit lower.

Apple will also be looking for an amnesty period in which to bring their offshored profits back into the country untaxed.

195
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:21:20pm

re: #188 gocart mozart

196
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:21:24pm

re: #157 Donkey With No Name

Oh, I’m completely for this, but I wonder how easy it would be to implement in practice. I’m amazed by the truly impressive desire on the part of a lot of supposedly “responsible” people to ignore fatal gun accidents because, you know, such things happen, and toddlers will be toddlers.

Unfortunately strict responsibility doesn’t address the problem of “person wants to commit mass shooting and has no intention of surviving” - legal consequences clearly aren’t relevant to such people.

Increased responsibility would address the gunfail nonsense.

The obvious response to mass shootings is to make the weapons most suitable for that difficult/impossible to acquire. The legal framework for that is already there in existing law that controls machine guns etc.

Simply add to that list as reality dictates.

197
Lidane  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:21:32pm

As usual, the GOP bowed to their masters in the NRA. What a surprise. //////

198
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:21:51pm

re: #165 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I thought that was your bathroom scale and I was like, WOW whatever diet you are on, you go girl!

But sadly no. :(

199
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:22:37pm
200
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:22:45pm

re: #198 The Vicious Babushka

I thought that was your bathroom scale and I was like, WOW whatever diet you are on, you go girl!

But sadly no. :(

In mah dreams…mah sad, sad dreams of yesteryear…

201
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:23:49pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

In mah dreams…mah sad, sad dreams of yesteryear…

Inorite! We were all thin once.

202
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:24:02pm
203
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:24:23pm

re: #169 gocart mozart

Funny. Right up there with the Monty Python skit about the English-Hungarian translation phrase book.

204
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:24:32pm
205
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:24:59pm

re: #186 Belafon

And I agree. I just don’t think people should be able to get by with “well, I didn’t vote for Trump” because that thinking depends on enough people voting. If you don’t like him, vote for the person who will keep him out of office, because ballots don’t include a “not him” feature.

I’m in a state that was likely to go for Trump only a few months ago (Nebraska), but Hillary Clinton seems to be catching up. In 2012 the electoral vote for NE-2 (Omaha) went to President Obama. If NE-1 (Lincoln) went to Mrs. Clinton and NE-2 stays Democratic, they will overwhelm my district (NE-3, everything rural), and Mrs. Clinton will pick up four electoral votes to Mr. Trump’s one.

I would certainly like to see the GOP have to expend effort and money here trying to defend what should be a safe state. Spending it here means they are not spending in toss-up states, and if they ignore Nebraska they could lose four vital electoral votes.

As for sitting out a vote over a purity test, no candidate in any party is going to meet everyone’s purity test. Sitting out the vote means you don’t care. Not caring enough to vote (whether you support Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton) is very much a smack in the face of every person (military and civilian) who fought to get you that right to vote.

206
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:26:37pm
207
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:27:26pm

re: #202 Backwoods_Sleuth

One thing the filibuster did was it put every Republican on record as to their position on meaningful regulations versus thoughts and prayers. The GOP went for thoughts and prayers. Those votes can be used as issues in campaigns against them.

208
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:27:56pm

re: #206 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

A friend of mine also had 17 ticket vouchers. Ticketmaster is of the devil.

RBS

209
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:28:29pm

Lots of records blown away today:


243
SXUS76 KSGX 202339
RERSGX

RECORD EVENT REPORT...PRELIMINARY REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SAN DIEGO CA
431 PM PDT MON JUN 20 2016

...HIGHEST MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE RECORDS BROKEN OR TIED ON JUN 20 2016 ...

LOCATION NEW RECORD OLD RECORD PERIOD OF RECORD

RAMONA 109 106 IN 2008 1974
RIVERSIDE 114 110 IN 2008 1893
PALM SPRINGS 122 118 IN 1929 1893
THERMAL 121 118 IN 2008 1950
CHULA VISTA 91 85 IN 2008 1918
ESCONDIDO 106 104 IN 1973 1893
ALPINE 107 TIED 107 IN 1973 1951
EL CAJON 107 94 IN 2007 1979
IDYLLWILD 97 95 IN 2001 1943
PALOMAR MOUNTAIN 96 92 IN 2015 1901
CAMPO 110 105 IN 2008 1948
INDIO 120 116 IN 1929 1894
BORREGO 118* 116 IN 2008 1942

*VERY PRELIMINARY AS DATA HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSMITTED FROM THIS SIGHT FOR OVER 2 HOURS.

...HIGHEST MINIMUM TEMPERATURE RECORDS BROKEN OR TIED ON JUN 20 2016 ...

LOCATION NEW RECORD OLD RECORD PERIOD OF RECORD

SANTA ANA 69 65 IN 1997 1906
SAN DIEGO 71 67 IN 1981 1875
VISTA 66 64 IN 1997 1957
CHULA VISTA 67 66 IN 2009 1918
RIVERSIDE 74 68 IN 1918 1893
ESCONDIDO 70 66 IN 1998 1893
RAMONA 61 60 IN 2008 1974
EL CAJON 69 66 IN 1989 1979
PALOMAR MOUNTAIN 75 72 IN 1978 1901
CAMPO 62 58 IN 1972 1948
PALM SPRINGS 87 83 IN 2008 1893
INDIO 96 86 IN 1996 1894
BORREGO 87 82 IN 1996 1942

210
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:28:39pm

re: #201 The Vicious Babushka

Inorite! We were all thin once.

Not me. This has helped me form the charming and engaging personality I presently have. ///

211
Skip Intro  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:29:24pm

re: #158 gocart mozart

Sadly, Swino died tragically in a car accident.

natureworldnews.com

212
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:30:32pm
213
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:33:19pm

re: #212 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I told my girl friend that I wanted to make love to her badly. She said at least I wasn’t over estimating myself.

ba-dum-tssh

RBS

214
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:34:03pm

re: #162 Great White Snark

Or some of my Democratic party friends. They try to tell me (despite a half vote never showing up in a result in all of American history) that refusing to vote Trump without promising to vote for HRC is a half vote for Con Man Donald. Srsly? What if my anti Con Man Donald efforts persuade 10 Republican or right leaning friends to decline to vote for Trump, and I don’t demand a vote for Hilary because none of them would have been persuaded if I did so.

Is that 5 for Donald? 1/2 each of 10 that withhold a Presidential vote or write in someone? I don’t think so. Electoral results have never shown such a thing. Non votes are zero votes are one. 1st grade math right?

What is your take on the thinking those non-voters have no real reason to complain or say anything about those offices for which they did not vote?

The old: if you didn’t vote, shut the hell up!”

And a good place to mention. I’d like no votes to count in the elections. It shows effort to vote but not happy with choices, Let the parties see that.

215
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:34:27pm
216
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:34:52pm

BWAHAHAHA!

Facebook Post

217
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:35:30pm

re: #212 gocart mozart

I’ll have to throw that out in the next book I edit and see if the author goes for it.

“I want you haphazardly.” (snicker)

218
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:35:35pm

I need more spit…

219
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:36:58pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

This NRA stooge needs to fuck himself with an outboard boat motor.

220
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:37:59pm

re: #214 ObserverArt

Well lets hypothesize a person won’t vote for Hilary because… whatever. But they get talked down from voting Trump. But they mail in or go and fill in a ballot where they vote the rest of it, state senate, maybe the propositions, maybe a few judges. They voted, did not lazily blow it off. But they simply could not fill the dot for any party candidate for one office this year.

Is that a non voter? I’d say not really.

221
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:38:32pm

re: #214 ObserverArt

What is your take on the thinking those non-voters have no real reason to complain or say anything about those offices for which they did not vote?

The old: if you didn’t vote, shut the hell up!”

And a good place to mention. I’d like no votes to count in the elections. It shows effort to vote but not happy with choices, Let the parties see that.

The problem there of course is that no candidate from any party is going to be the 100% pure ideal that every individual voter wants. Politics is about what’s possible and compromise, not rigid idealism (see the GOP controlled Congress).

222
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:38:47pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need more spit…

[Embedded content]

223
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:39:32pm
224
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:40:36pm

New kind of mugshots available for some people I suppose…

225
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:40:52pm

re: #220 Great White Snark

Well lets hypothesize a person won’t vote for Hilary because… whatever. But they get talked down from voting Trump. But they mail in or go and fill in a ballot where they vote the rest of it, state senate, maybe the propositions, maybe a few judges. They voted, did not lazily blow it off. But they simply could not fill the dot for any party candidate for one office this year.

Is that a non voter? I’d say not really.

When it comes to fending off Trump, I’ll take what I can get. Persuading Republicans/conservatives to not vote for Trump is a step in the right direction. Holding out for Hillary Clinton votes from such people is likely a fool’s errand.

I expect more from the Sanders supporters.

226
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:42:00pm

Not only is it possible, Li’l Whiplash, but you achieve it every day.
Also: Amy Schumer is way hotter than you are.

227
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:42:24pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need more spit…

Tonight’s display was about politics, plain and simple.

It is about politics. IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE. When I choose a plumber, I want him to turn my wishes into pipe. When I choose a politician, I want her to turn my wishes into politics.

228
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:43:08pm

re: #221 Anymouse

The problem there of course is that no candidate from any party is going to be the 100% pure ideal that every individual voter wants. Politics is about what’s possible and compromise, not rigid idealism (see the GOP controlled Congress).

The inescapable problem with comparative logic here is it lets us think we would be doing the right thing to vote one or the other no matter how far from 100% suitability they are. 1.1% right beats 1% right. This is a serious flaw in the theory, as it makes no allowance for two unsuitable candidates at all.

229
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:43:23pm
230
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:43:45pm

re: #224 Backwoods_Sleuth

Some neighbors told NBC 7, the allegations against Suder surprised them because the teen seemed to be a nice girl.

Always.

231
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:44:10pm

re: #220 Great White Snark

Well lets hypothesize a person won’t vote for Hilary because… whatever. But they get talked down from voting Trump. But they mail in or go and fill in a ballot where they vote the rest of it, state senate, maybe the propositions, maybe a few judges. They voted, did not lazily blow it off. But they simply could not fill the dot for any party candidate for one office this year.

Is that a non voter? I’d say not really.

The former mayor of my town was lamenting Mr. Trump (who he supported but no longer does), and was disillusioned about the whole electoral process. (At the time, I still had my Sanders yard sign in my yard, so he knew where I stood at the time).

As a village trustee myself, I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to recommend people not vote at all. I pointed out to him there are many other candidates on the ballot, and with our mail voting in Nebraska he doesn’t have to make much effort to find those in statewide, county, or local elections to vote for. If he truly doesn’t want to vote for Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton (or Mr. Sanders at the time), then he can leave that line on the ballot blank. But to toss the whole election because he doesn’t like the presidential candidates kind of flies in the face of the Air Force he served in.

He is going to reconsider his idea of not voting at all. I want people to vote. If a large minority of people don’t vote at all, that means they are willing to accept just anyone for a position.

232
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:44:46pm
233
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:45:16pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need more spit…

[Embedded content]

Ask and you shall receive.

234
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:47:07pm
235
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:47:07pm

re: #222 Tigger2

236
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:47:16pm

I finally got around to watching the final installment of The Hunger Games movie.

I’m putting this in a spoiler just in case somebody else has it in their Netflix queue and hasn’t got around to watching it yet.

Did they makeup Julianne Moore to look like Hillary on purpose? Because that sucked.

237
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:48:36pm
238
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:49:04pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need more spit…

[Embedded content]

Every politician in the Senate practiced politics. Some are just colorblind: They can’t tell the difference between red blood and green money.

239
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:49:38pm
240
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:49:50pm

Official high temperature at my twenty today, 97° F, a new record.

Current temp 91° F.

241
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:50:00pm

re: #221 Anymouse

The problem there of course is that no candidate from any party is going to be the 100% pure ideal that every individual voter wants. Politics is about what’s possible and compromise, not rigid idealism (see the GOP controlled Congress).

Party identity is very rigid these days. It’s big news that a few percent of Republicans might not vote for Trump in the general election. Asking these people to vote for Hillary Clinton is the logical thing to do only from the point of view of maximizing opposition to Trump.

Few voters are going to be that cold-blooded about voting, especially people who have been uncritically accepting anti Hillary Clinton propaganda for decades.

242
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:50:13pm

re: #240 teleskiguy

I’m at 6,600 feet above sea level.

243
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:52:49pm

Here is what an indigenous writer at Indian Country thinks of Trump insulting Pocahontas:

Let’s be clear: Donald Trump isn’t calling Senator Warren “Pocahontas” to honor her. He is using it in a derogatory manner, to belittle and insult her. This is what he thinks of Native people and women in general. Such statements are not only arrogant, they’re misogynistic and racially charged.

Contrary to Hollywood lore and textbook mythology, Pocahontas wasn’t a buxom NDN Princess built for sex who couldn’t wait to help the white man defeat her brutish Tribesman. Pocahontas was a little girl who first met John Smith around age 11. She was kidnapped, held hostage, imprisoned, and raped by European invaders who only released her when she agreed to marry one of her English captors. She was then promptly carted off to Europe as an example of what successful colonization could look like. She fell ill soon after and died far from her traditional homelands at the age of 21. Pocahontas is not a stripper name or a Halloween costume. She is Exhibit A in the case that would hold the United States and its founders guilty of Indigenous genocide.

Trump shows us time and again that he has no respect for women, and by continuing to use the term “Pocahontas” as a racial slur, he is showing us his particular distain for Native people and women, especially. Because of stereotypes like the Pocahottie that fetishize and hypersexualize Native women, we continue to be preyed upon by non-Natives who see us as exotic objects meant purely for sexual gratification.

[…]

As far as Elizabeth Warren is concerned, I couldn’t care less whether she possesses the blood quantum necessary for tribal enrollment. She is counting coup on Donald Trump and calling him out like only a strong Native woman can. Hell, if she’s not Native, I might hunka (adopt) her.

244
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:52:55pm
245
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:53:21pm

re: #240 teleskiguy

Official high temperature at my twenty today, 97° F, a new record.

Current temp 91° F.

It was 92 at 9 am at my work in Manhattan Beach, the wind kicked up and cooled it to 77. At my home further inland it 106 at 5 pm when I got home.

246
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:53:32pm

re: #231 Anymouse

The former mayor of my town was lamenting Mr. Trump (who he supported but no longer does), and was disillusioned about the whole electoral process. (At the time, I still had my Sanders yard sign in my yard, so he knew where I stood at the time).

As a village trustee myself, I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to recommend people not vote at all. I pointed out to him there are many other candidates on the ballot, and with our mail voting in Nebraska he doesn’t have to make much effort to find those in statewide, county, or local elections to vote for. If he truly doesn’t want to vote for Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton (or Mr. Sanders at the time), then he can leave that line on the ballot blank. But to toss the whole election because he doesn’t like the presidential candidates kind of flies in the face of the Air Force he served in.

He is going to reconsider his idea of not voting at all. I want people to vote. If a large minority of people don’t vote at all, that means they are willing to accept just anyone for a position.

I am kind of hoping, though, that disgust with Trump suppresses down ticket Republican support. Most Congressional Republicans actually support what Trump is promoting, they are just against saying it out loud.

Edit: forgot one word.

247
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:53:32pm

re: #220 Great White Snark

Well lets hypothesize a person won’t vote for Hilary because… whatever. But they get talked down from voting Trump. But they mail in or go and fill in a ballot where they vote the rest of it, state senate, maybe the propositions, maybe a few judges. They voted, did not lazily blow it off. But they simply could not fill the dot for any party candidate for one office this year.

Is that a non voter? I’d say not really.

Where does this thinking fit into “doing your patriotic duty of voting?” All those old axioms came out of some kind of thinking. If a voter saw someone as bad it was thought to be their duty to vote against. I don’t think any of them allowed for no decisions. And as others have said, if your method leads to a Trump election, how should those that didn’t vote for Clinton think about their choice?

Just seems to be fence sitting that could be seen as being above it all.

(Shrug)

248
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:55:22pm

re: #245 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

It was 92 at 9 am at my work in Manhattan Beach, the wind kicked up and cooled it to 77. At my home further inland it 106 at 5 pm when I got home.

It’s too early in the summer for this shit. I expect this kind of weather in August. The snow pack up high is disappearing faster than I’ve seen in a long time. One more week of this and all the snow is gone, weeks ahead of normal schedule.

249
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:55:36pm

Well dammit, two fires above Los Angeles have merged. The smoke cloud is huge.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/06/20/azusa-duarte-brush-fire/

250
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:55:46pm

Yeah, right.

251
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:56:14pm

re: #240 teleskiguy

Official high temperature at my twenty today, 97° F, a new record.

Current temp 91° F.

79° here now in my village. Tomorrow a record high is predicted (101°).

252
Targetpractice  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:56:16pm

re: #244 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

As even Trump has pointed out, he doesn’t need a lot of money. He just keeps making noise and the press keeps running up to cover him. He kicked WaPo out of his campaign’s press pool and the media spent maybe five minutes grumbling about it, and then immediately moved on. If he did as he said and shot somebody on Fifth Ave, the media would immediately haul up the bones of Vince Foster to argue that she’d done something “just as bad.”

253
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:58:42pm

re: #247 ObserverArt

Fence sitting implies two worthy candidates one can’t choose between. The proverbial lesser of two evils is still a vote for proverbial evil.

254
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:59:18pm

re: #248 teleskiguy

It’s too early in the summer for this shit. I expect this kind of weather in August. The snow pack up high is disappearing faster than I’ve seen in a long time. One more week of this and all the snow is gone, weeks ahead of normal schedule.

I was surprised at how cool it has been until it started warming up last week. Didn’t think we’d get hammered like this so fast and I will be glad to see it go tomorrow.

255
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:00:16pm

re: #249 Great White Snark

Well dammit, two fires above Los Angeles have merged. The smoke cloud is huge.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/06/20/azusa-duarte-brush-fire/

I saw the first cloud forming this afternoon, then was driving home and saw the two different plumes while coming down the 91. As soon as I saw the first at work I knew it was a fire.

256
Lidane  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:00:35pm

re: #243 The Vicious Babushka

Cheeto Jesus is just mad that someone in the Warren camp had the presence of mind to buy the pocahontas.com domain and redirect it to Warren’s fundraising site.

257
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:01:05pm

re: #244 Backwoods_Sleuth

According to Josh Marshall @ TPM, Trump is expecting the RNC to fund his campaign, do the data work, hire the field workers, etc. In other words, Trump knows nothing about running a political campaign. JM even thinks Trump will expect the RNC to repay the millions he loaned his campaign. If this is so, I think he’s in for a rude awakening.

258
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:02:42pm

re: #257 majii

I’m hoping he looks like this by Inauguration Day, yelling at cars along Fifth Avenue.

259
Targetpractice  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:03:17pm

re: #257 majii

According to Josh Marshall @ TPM, Trump is expecting the RNC to fund his campaign, do the data work, hire the field workers, etc. In other words, Trump knows nothing about running a political campaign. JM even thinks Trump will expect the RNC to repay the millions he loaned his campaign. If this is so, I think he’s in for a rude awakening.

It’s rather odd how the Bros and wingnuts alike who spent months gushing over Trump for how he was “self-funding” and so would not be influenced by “corporate interests” suddenly went silent when rumors began spreading that he’s broke and will be reliant on the GOP to fund his campaign going forward.

260
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:03:52pm

re: #245 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

It was 92 at 9 am at my work in Manhattan Beach, the wind kicked up and cooled it to 77. At my home further inland it 106 at 5 pm when I got home.

I didn’t do the walk/run today, instead opting for my time on the elliptical, but that was unsatisfying so I am looking at how to best get my time in without dying in the heat. Currently looks like I will be getting up early enough to beat at least some of the heat. Blech.

261
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:04:04pm

re: #93 EPR-radar

Agreed. Gun control proponents shouldn’t use arguments like that. It’s a self-defeating distraction from things that might actually work.

I’m also leery of arguments predicated on Heller being 100% wrongly decided. The second amendment is ambiguous. There is no way to tell from its text exactly how (if at all) militia service is connected with the right to keep and bear arms. So even if Heller gets reversed, the possibility of that reversal being overturned will never go away.

Furthermore, the militia as understood by the founders is a historical relic that hasn’t been in operation for over a century. Making the second amendment all about the militia just doesn’t seem to make sense.

What they meant by the Second Amendment was something like: “A well trained and well equipped military force being essential to the security of a free State, Congress shall not fail to recruit, train, and equip such a force with suitable arms by whatever means, public and/or private, as they shall determine.”

262
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:04:26pm

re: #257 majii

According to Josh Marshall @ TPM, Trump is expecting the RNC to fund his campaign, do the data work, hire the field workers, etc. In other words, Trump knows nothing about running a political campaign. JM even thinks Trump will expect the RNC to repay the millions he loaned his campaign. If this is so, I think he’s in for a rude awakening.

When he loses, that’s going to be substandard work and a bad job, so will he refuse to pay back the loans he made to himself. He treats others the same way.

RBS

263
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:04:30pm

re: #244 Backwoods_Sleuth

264
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:04:53pm
265
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:06:13pm

re: #255 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

If that smoke comes over at the Valley I’ll have to get a hotel. Wife has asthma and our AC quit Friday. Can’t close up.

266
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:06:21pm

re: #253 Great White Snark

Fence sitting implies two worthy candidates one can’t choose between. The proverbial lesser of two evils is still a vote for proverbial evil.

I have a big problem with a “lesser of two evils” narrative for this election.

For this to make sense, the two candidates need to be in the same ballpark with respect to their evil (real or even alleged).

The cornerstone of Trump’s campaign is scapegoating and bigotry.

I’m not aware of anything Hillary Clinton is even accused of by RWNJs that is nearly as bad. When the charges against Clinton are restricted to reality, the difference between Trump and Clinton just gets larger.

267
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:07:22pm

re: #264 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Trump says he won’t limit gun sales speech: “Once you start, where do you end?”

Oh, yeah, we actually do have limits that work. Some of which Trump has enjoyed.

268
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:07:32pm

re: #253 Great White Snark

Fence sitting implies two worthy candidates one can’t choose between. The proverbial lesser of two evils is still a vote for proverbial evil.

And that is saying there are absolutely no other protections. I should hope anyone that evil would run into those protections and be shuffled out the door while the Congress ties them up and the American public tunes them out.

And it is troubling that somehow BOTH of these candidates would be seen by anyone as all that evil.

I’ll refrain from further comment for my own sanity!

269
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:08:07pm

re: #261 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

What they meant by the Second Amendment was something like: “A well trained and well equipped military force being essential to the security of a free State, Congress shall not fail to recruit, train, and equip such a force with suitable arms by whatever means, public and/or private, as they shall determine.”

It would have been very kind of Mr. Madison to write this down more explicitly. He was certainly a capable enough writer to have done so.

270
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:09:23pm

re: #263 blueraven

[Embedded content]

271
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:09:45pm

Rachel Maddow reported Trump raised only 3.5 million in May and began June with 1.3 million.
Hillary raised 28 million over the same time period and began the month of June with 42 million.

272
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:10:47pm

John Oliver on the Dickey Amendment and the NRA lobbying against any research into gun violence, and prohibiting the ATF from having a computerised system to review gun applications:

John Oliver - The NRA

273
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:10:48pm

re: #266 EPR-radar

Well my point is in general. When your best case for a vote is I’m not that guy you are a weak candidate. Again, in general.

274
Bass Reeves  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:11:02pm

re: #110 Great White Snark

it’s a glaringly obvious poison pill approach. Seriously, all the progressives, liberals, Democrats that really think civilian based militias are a good idea please step up and tell me I’m wrong.

Plus if we think we want the rights and laws in the constitution are actually limited to the technology of the late 1700’s think again please. We would then no longer have any civil protections from surveillance of and technology more advanced than quill pen and paper, and the handset lead type printing press. There would be no such thing as protected speech on radio, let alone the internet. Sedition laws would apply to blogs. Police cameras would be for the prosecution only. FOIA? LOL.

Civilian-based militias = National Guard/Reserves. Pretty good idea, IMO.

And I’m all for viewing the Constitution as a living, breathing document. The people who are 2A absolutists generally, are not. If you think Heller was decided correctly, that’s fine. I think that Heller was not decided as a so-called strict textualist would have decided, and was instead decided like a RWNJ majority would have. RWNJ are FOREVER complaining about the Supreme Court making new rights out of thin air, and yet are very conspicuously silent on this.

275
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:12:14pm

re: #250 The Vicious Babushka

He meant what he said when he accused the president of being “in bed” with ISIS. He was one of the first prominent birthers, and he hasn’t changed one bit. This is a flip-flop. Someone on his campaign staff has told him that he comes across as an unhinged nut, and if he tones things down, it might help his poll numbers. As far as I’m concerned, this is more self-serving Trump BS.

276
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:12:41pm

re: #270 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

Is that Line 12 (debts owed by the committee) mainly the loans Trump has made to his campaign?

RBS

277
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:13:02pm

re: #270 Tigger2

Not only is Trump phoning it in when dealing with the press, he’s also using this as his fundraising strategy.

Perhaps this really is all an act.

278
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:14:42pm

re: #273 Great White Snark

Well my point is in general. When your best case for a vote is I’m not that guy you are a weak candidate. Again, in general.

“I’m not the fascist” seems like a pretty good argument to me to vote for the person who is not the fascist.

That is hardly Mrs. Clinton’s only position, though.

279
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:16:15pm

re: #111 BeachDem

That’s weird—that chart shows Graham got $49,000 and Scott got $17,000. I could swear somebody posted a chart last week where they both had 0.

I haz a confused (but my previous post saying that they’re both assholes still stands)

whoismyvoice.com

280
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:16:32pm

re: #274 Bass Reeves

Civilian-based militias = National Guard/Reserves. Pretty good idea, IMO.

And I’m all for viewing the Constitution as a living, breathing document. The people who are 2A absolutists generally, are not. If you think Heller was decided correctly, that’s fine. I think that Heller was not decided as a so-called strict textualist would have decided, and was instead decided like a RWNJ majority would have. RWNJ are FOREVER complaining about the Supreme Court making new rights out of thin air, and yet are very conspicuously silent on this.

An originalist reading of the second amendment would not result in the conclusion that an unfettered right of individuals to own guns was intended. The US in 1787 was too racist and sexist for that, and the southern states would have opposed anything that hinted of a right of slaves in revolt to be armed. My personal belief is that the ambiguous militia language that we have is there precisely to deal with that concern.

281
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:18:48pm

re: #277 EPR-radar

According to Politico, the RNC gave Trump a list of over 20 donors to call. He called three, then stopped. I think he thinks it’s insulting for a man as rich as he claims to be to have to call other rich persons asking for money. Since he likes delegating responsibility, maybe Reince Priebus is now calling donors on his behalf. LOL.

282
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:19:32pm

re: #127 Great White Snark

Heller took away the worst fears of the far right on guns, as they were thought to be subject to confiscation until the 2nd got upheld as an individual right. Sadly attacks on that ruling have seriously diminished confidence in that landmark ruling. Every powerful voice that calls for a new SCOTUS to overturn it contributes.

Yes, but the Second Amendment, as it clearly states, has nothing to do with individual rights, Heller was ludicrously wrongly decided.

283
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:20:17pm

re: #278 Anymouse

“I’m not the fascist” seems like a pretty good argument to me to vote for the person who is not the fascist.

That is hardly Mrs. Clinton’s only position, though.

It is bizarre to see Trump’s fascist tendencies be clearly and forcefully called out at RedState, while very few of the never-Trumpers there will actually vote for Clinton.

Not voting for the Hitler wannabe is half a step in the right direction, but is pretty weak sauce given the nature of the threat.

284
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:21:14pm

wonkette.com

Wonkette weighing in on Moody’s saying Mr. Trump would be bad for the economy, in all its NSFW snarky glory.

285
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:23:29pm

re: #283 EPR-radar

They should go right ahead and vote for Trump because the only difference between Trump and the others who ran in the GOP Primary is that Trump says aloud the things they believe. Even John “I’m not really a moderate” Kasich holds the same views on ssm, taxes, religious rights, etc.

286
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:25:20pm
287
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:27:34pm

re: #278 Anymouse

“I’m not the fascist” seems like a pretty good argument to me to vote for the person who is not the fascist.

That is hardly Mrs. Clinton’s only position, though.

She packs a lot baggage with bundles of negatives.

288
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:28:40pm

re: #286 teleskiguy

289
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:29:40pm
290
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:29:46pm

re: #285 majii

They should go right ahead and vote for Trump because the only difference between Trump and the others who ran in the GOP Primary is that Trump says aloud the things they believe. Even John “I’m not really a moderate” Kasich holds the same views on ssm, taxes, religious rights, etc.

On the issues, Trump was the least doctrinaire and objectionable of the GOP primary candidates, mainly because he sometime deviated from GOP orthodoxy and the others did not. However, Trump is also completely untrustworthy, so it doesn’t matter what he says about his policy positions.

The problem with Trump is what he has done, which is mainly to crystallize GOP resentments into much more explicit scapegoating than we’ve seen for decades.

291
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:30:59pm

re: #282 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

It’s a part of the bill of rights, the only one that had not been acknowledged individual status. When the individual can be denied, the right is near useless. Amazing it took so damn long to get that. Way overdue.

292
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:31:01pm
293
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:31:34pm

re: #287 ObserverArt

She packs a lot baggage with bundles of negatives.

Thirty years worth of negatives that were all conservaderp put on her by the GOP that had no substance whatsoever.

John McCain and the Keating Five? Uninterested in investigating McCain.

The huge numbers of embassies and legations attacked under GW Bush? Not interested in investigating those either.

Shooting in Orlando? Nope, not interested in investigating that either (that would take away their talking point it was “radical Islamic terrorism”).

294
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:31:39pm
295
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:33:29pm

re: #289 Tigger2

He actually filed legislation! smdh

296
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:33:43pm
297
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:34:03pm

re: #292 gocart mozart

He’s also connected to Putin’s government.

298
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:34:19pm
299
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:34:43pm

re: #291 Great White Snark

It’s a part of the bill of rights, the only one that had not been acknowledged individual status. When the individual can be denied, the right is near useless. Amazing it took so damn long to get that. Way overdue.

It’s the only one that has a restriction written right into it (a well-regulated militia). And that well-regulated militia is defined in Article 1, Section 8, clause 15 of the main body of the Constitution (that document the originalists say should be followed, right up until they don’t).

The training, discipline, arming of the militia is to be by the prescribed orders of Congress, and the officers of the militia appointed by the states, not some wingnut sheriff who thinks he is the highest law in the land. Not some survivalist group or some anti-government terrorist organisation like the Malheur Talibanjo Liberation Front.

300
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:35:45pm
301
Tigger2  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:36:13pm

re: #295 blueraven

He actually filed legislation! smdh

[Embedded content]

Yep he did, the GOP outreach to the AA voters continues.

302
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:37:50pm

re: #298 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Well, maybe he’s getting the “Friends and Family Rate”.

RBS

303
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:38:13pm

re: #291 Great White Snark

It’s a part of the bill of rights, the only one that had not been acknowledged individual status. When the individual can be denied, the right is near useless. Amazing it took so damn long to get that. Way overdue.

The second amendment is written much more ambiguously than the other amendments in the bill of rights. If the right really is an individual right, why the blather about the militia? If the right really is limited to acts in connection with militia service, why not make that explicit?

304
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:39:26pm

re: #297 Ziggy_TARDIS

Fine, I’ll post about that too.

305
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:40:13pm

re: #304 gocart mozart

You know that picture makes him look like an older Ramsey Bolton…..

306
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:40:19pm

Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee. From this point on I’m not going to argue with people who refuse to accept this on Twitter. They’re beyond help, and there’s no point wasting effort on them.

307
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:40:47pm

re: #295 blueraven

Steve Kings thinks it’s wrong to have a “blah” person on American money. Whether some Americans who oppose the president will admit it or not, they think the White House should only be occupied by a white, male, Christian, heterosexual. I think what has caused such fear in them since January 20, 2009 is the idea that if a “blah”man can be POTUS, so can another POC, an atheist, or a LGBTQ American.

308
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:41:11pm
309
Frenchy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:41:12pm

re: #295 blueraven

Not like we didn’t all already know this, but jeez what a fucking asshole.

310
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:42:20pm

re: #286 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

311
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:42:43pm

re: #308 Kragar

[Embedded content]

The Green Party is on only about twenty state ballots. Even if Dr. Stein had a large following (she doesn’t), she could not do anything other than throw the election to the House. Welcome your new overlord Donald Trump in that case.

I used to like TYT, but they have gone off the rails. And Dr. Stein is a moonbat.

312
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:43:08pm

whoa

313
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:43:18pm
314
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:43:29pm

re: #299 Anymouse

Or the Korean merchants that held off firebombing looters during the R King riots. The 2nd assured them the gun purchases. The crisis forced the sudden formation of a neighborhood militia that dissolved as fast as the crisis did. Well Regulated-They did everything within the law. Militia, they formed a defensive force as needed.

That’s why the 2nd as ruled in Heller really matters as an individual right.

315
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:43:42pm
316
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:43:44pm

re: #293 Anymouse

Thirty years worth of negatives that were all conservaderp put on her by the GOP that had no substance whatsoever.

John McCain and the Keating Five? Uninterested in investigating McCain.

The huge numbers of embassies and legations attacked under GW Bush? Not interested in investigating those either.

Shooting in Orlando? Nope, not interested in investigating that either (that would take away their talking point it was “radical Islamic terrorism”).

It just goes to show how effective a determined and long running character assassination campaign can be building a ruinous view of someone.

And then people buy into what they hear and not really go into their own discovery so have no idea what is bull and what is not.

The Democrats lose these battles all the time because they just do not join together enough to have a long campaign against their opposition. It’s not part of the thinking and if it was it would be seen as odorous at best.

And with that later Lizards. Have a good evening. Stay cool in this heat!

317
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:44:16pm
318
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:45:12pm

re: #308 Kragar

Cenk Uygur ✔ @cenkuygur
Think You’ve Got It Locked, Hillary? Meet Jill Stein. politico.com

That comes off so petty, vindictive and personal. Not professional at all. Sour grapes. whaaaaaaa!

319
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:45:31pm
320
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:45:40pm

re: #317 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

The fucking taco bowl cost 94.00.

321
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:46:03pm

In regards to Jill Stein, she is simply irrational:

Stein wants “a moratorium on GMOs and pesticides until they are proven safe.”[103] Stein supports a national ban on fracking.[104] She has spoken against nuclear energy, saying “nuclear energy is dirty, dangerous and expensive, and should be precluded on all of those counts.”[104] Stein has stated that “vaccines in general have made a huge contribution to public health,” but suggested that it is reasonable to be skeptical of mandatory vaccinations due to allegedly close connections between corporate interests and regulatory agencies.[105] Regarding homeopathic medicine, which the Green Party supports “the teaching, funding and practice of”, Stein has stated that it is problematic that “agencies tied to big pharma and the chemical industry” test medicines.

Grade A wackaloon.

I will hit these one by one. In regards to GMOs, there has been years and years of research, and no reputable information showing adverse effects. There are some issues with pesticides, but they are not all bad.

The Anti-Vaccination shit has led to a spike in outbreaks in Diseases once defeated, such as Measles, with the Disneyland outbreak being an exception. I don’t think I need to go into why Homeopathic Medicine is horseshit.

322
petesh  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:47:35pm

re: #112 Dr. Matt

… Bernie Sanders supporters have become more galvanized…]

Aha! Coated with a protective layer of zinc, eh? I guess tinfoil hats just aren’t enough.

323
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:48:07pm

re: #308 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Who?
No, seriously.
/

324
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:49:06pm

re: #314 Great White Snark

Or the Korean merchants that held off firebombing looters during the R King riots. The 2nd assured them the gun purchases. The crisis forced the sudden formation of a neighborhood militia that dissolved as fast as the crisis did. Well Regulated-They did everything within the law. Militia, they formed a defensive force as needed.

That’s why the 2nd as ruled by Heller really matters as an individual right.

There is a bit more than simply “Koreans defending their businesses proves individual rights under Heller” (which did not prohibit all regulations anyway).

Widespread looting, assault, arson, and killings occurred during the riots, and estimates of property damage was over $1 billion. The rioting ended after members of the California Army National Guard, the 7th Infantry Division, and the 1st Marine Division were called in to stop the rioting when the local police could not control the situation. In total, 55 people were killed during the riots and over 2,000 people were injured. LAPD chief of police Daryl Gates, who had already announced his resignation by the time of the riots, took much of the institutional blame for them.

On March 16, 1991, a year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du physically confronted black ninth-grader Latasha Harlins by grabbing her sweater and backpack over whether the 15-year-old had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du’s family owned in Compton. After Latasha hit Du, Du shot Latasha in the back of the head, killing her. (Security tape showed the girl, already dead, was still clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and forced to pay a fine of $500, but not sentenced to any prison time.

his was the catalyst that fueled much of the rage against Koreans and Korean store-owners in the Los Angeles community.[original research?] Racial tensions had been simmering underneath the surface for several years. Many African-Americans were angry toward a growing Korean merchant community in South Central Los Angeles earning a living in their communities, and felt disrespected and looked down on by many Korean merchants. Cultural differences and a language barrier further fueled tensions in an already fragile environment. With the acquittal of four LAPD officers in the Rodney King beating trial and the aftermath of the Soon Ja Du trial where she was sentenced to probation for killing Latasha Harlins, the Los Angeles riots ensued and much of the anger was directed at Koreans.

en.wikipedia.org

325
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:49:06pm

re: #314 Great White Snark

Or the Korean merchants that held off firebombing looters during the R King riots. The 2nd assured them the gun purchases. The crisis forced the sudden formation of a neighborhood militia that dissolved as fast as the crisis did. Well Regulated-They did everything within the law. Militia, they formed a defensive force as needed.

That’s why the 2nd as ruled in Heller really matters as an individual right.

I don’t think “well-regulated” is a synonym for “lawful”. Instead I’m reasonably sure it relates to (severe) military discipline.

In any case, if your position is that the 2nd amendment is an individual right, then there’s no point in trying to shoehorn case studies into a militia framework.

326
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:49:13pm

I’ll smile the smile of the righteous if I see a blue map of the United States on 8 November. I was a little kid when Reagan/Mondale went down, and that hadn’t happened since Johnson/Goldwater.

Fuck, I was an adolescent when our president was impeached! That was crazy.

327
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:49:31pm

re: #322 petesh

Aha! Coated with a protective layer of zinc, eh? I guess tinfoil hats just aren’t enough.

I prefer to think of it like this:

Khal Drogo Killing Viserys - A Crown For A King - Game of Thrones 1x06 (HD)

328
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:50:35pm

re: #324 Anymouse

One of these things (legit defense) has nothing to do with a murder. The fact murder can happen is not a de facto reason to inhibit legit defense at all.

329
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:50:52pm

I think this is real

oops, wrong post.

Anyone looking at the report?

330
Reality Based Steve  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:53:00pm

I’m outta here. Looks like tomorrow I’ll actually FINISH my CPR/First Aid Instructor course. Due to one thing or another coming up at the shop we’ve had to push it back a couple of times.

In closing, here’s my view on the whole GOP Party.

331
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:53:03pm
332
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:53:06pm
333
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:53:19pm

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Hey Republicans, nice job! You nominated someone as dumb as you!

334
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:53:37pm

re: #329 Stanley Sea

$4991 of Eric Trump wine…
how many boxes is that?

335
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:54:05pm
336
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:54:18pm
337
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:54:26pm

re: #321 Ziggy_TARDIS

I was not aware that the Greens as a party favor homeopathy. That by itself is a deal breaker for me.

338
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:54:58pm

re: #334 jaunte

I thought The Donald™ doesn’t drink and is gifted with Adonis DNA.

339
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:55:48pm
340
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:55:53pm

This might be the most public money laundering operation since the Whites bought the car wash

341
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:55:54pm

America has proven to be wholly irresponsible to have guns.

342
blueraven  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:56:07pm
343
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:57:19pm

re: #291 Great White Snark

It’s a part of the bill of rights, the only one that had not been acknowledged individual status. When the individual can be denied, the right is near useless. Amazing it took so damn long to get that. Way overdue.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

344
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:57:19pm

re: #334 jaunte

$4991 of Eric Trump wine…
how many boxes is that?

about 500 at $9.99 a box.

345
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:57:26pm

re: #337 EPR-radar

The Green Party around the world is known for weird shit.

In Europe, they tend to be pro-Putin, and reflexively Anti-Nuclear. Despite the fact that, with proper safeguards and regulation, Nuclear is incredibly safe.

346
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:58:29pm

re: #337 EPR-radar

I was not aware that the Greens as a party favor homeopathy. That by itself is a deal breaker for me.

Perhaps if we dissolve Dr. Stein in a 10C solution, she will become that much more powerful.

347
Sherlock Hound  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:59:15pm

re: #311 Anymouse

The Green Party is on only about twenty state ballots. Even if Dr. Stein had a large following (she doesn’t), she could not do anything other than throw the election to the House. Welcome your new overlord Donald Trump in that case.

I used to like TYT, but they have gone off the rails. And Dr. Stein is a moonbat.

She won’t even take the town she lives in, let alone my state.

348
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:59:49pm
349
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 7:59:53pm

re: #291 Great White Snark

It’s a part of the bill of rights, the only one that had not been acknowledged individual status. When the individual can be denied, the right is near useless. Amazing it took so damn long to get that. Way overdue.

The XIII Amendment denies an individual right the Constitution originally permitted too (slaveholding).

350
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:01:23pm

re: #332 goddamnedfrank

Like, I get how it’s tempting to think about the delegates refusing to nominate him but I don’t see how they avoid that turning into an even bigger shit-show. Do they nominate Cruz who has the next most delegates but is pretty much equally hated by the establishment? Do they nominate Kasich who is popular and could win against Hillary but has very few delegates? Or do they try to shoehorn Ryan in with zero delegates?

Whoever deigns to replace Trump has to know they’ll be inheriting a horribly broken Party and will be massively behind in fundraising. Everyone who’s endorsed / pledged to Trump will have to explain why they’re going along with voiding the will of the voters and now supporting some new guy who didn’t win the Primary race. All while an apoplectic Trump rages in the sidelines, threatens or files lawsuits and whips his atavistic supporters into a violent mob.

I mean, I get the motive but this is exactly the kind of shit that could get people killed. There’s a reason Reince is trying to make sure it doesn’t happen, it’s the one path going forward that’s basically guaranteed to split the Party irrevocably.

351
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:02:13pm

Everyone who has observed The Donald™ in New York City the last 40 years is not at all surprised by his Ponzi Scheme Presidential Campaign. I can’t wait for the next Greydon Carter column.

352
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:03:11pm

re: #349 Anymouse

XII was Not in the Bill Of Rights. Those are a higher set of values.

353
Joe Bacon  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:03:33pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need more spit…

[Embedded content]

Dracula would fit right in with the NRA. They lust for blood just like any other vampire!

354
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:03:47pm

Other things about Stein. She apparently has not met a dictator she doesn’t like, and is as willing abandon Allies as Trump.

Stein wants to cut U.S. military spending by at least 50%.[101] Stein has argued that the United States “helped foment” a coup in Ukraine.[102] She maintains that the Ukraine should be neutral and that the United States should not arm the Ukraine.[102] Regarding disputes in the South China Sea, Stein has said that “it is wrongheaded for [the United States] to deal with territorial rights on the borders of China.”[102] Stein has claimed that the United States “pursued a policy of basically encircling Russia—including the threat of nukes and drones and so on.”[102]

355
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:04:46pm

re: #352 Great White Snark

XII was Not in the Bill Of Rights. Those are a higher set of values.

Nope. All parts of the constitution have equal force and effect.

356
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:05:21pm

re: #350 goddamnedfrank

Like, I get how it’s tempting to think about the delegates refusing to nominate him but I don’t see how they avoid that turning into an even bigger shit-show. Do they nominate Cruz who has the next most delegates but is pretty much equally hated by the establishment? Do they nominate Kasich who is popular and could win against Hillary but has very few delegates? Or do they try to shoehorn Ryan in with zero delegates?

Whoever deigns to replace Trump has to know they’ll be inheriting a horribly broken Party and will be massively behind in fundraising. Everyone who’s endorsed / pledged to Trump will have to explain why they’re going along with voiding the will of the voters and going with some guy who didn’t win the Primary race. All while an apoplectic Trump rages in the sidelines, threatens or files lawsuits and whips his atavistic supporters into a violent mob.

I mean, I get the motive but this is exactly the kind of shit that could get people killed. There’s a reason Reince is trying to make sure it doesn’t happen, it’s the one path going forward that’s basically guaranteed to split the Party irrevocably.

It would have to be someone like Ryan, who didn’t run in the primaries. Anyone that Trump beat would only enrage his supporters. But I can’t imagine Ryan would accept the nomination - he’s already getting crushed as Speaker. Maybe Romney on an “I Told You So” platform? But does that sell to anyone that actually pays attention to the world not being Flea Bottom? Perhaps there’s a Republican governor that could be persuaded to accept the nomination, and who could bring the party together… I’m just not sure who that is.

357
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:06:43pm

re: #356 KGxvi

It would have to be someone like Ryan, who didn’t run in the primaries. Anyone that Trump beat would only enrage his supporters. But I can’t imagine Ryan would accept the nomination - he’s already getting crushed as Speaker. Maybe Romney on an “I Told You So” platform? But does that sell to anyone that actually pays attention to the world not being Flea Bottom? Perhaps there’s a Republican governor that could be persuaded to accept the nomination, and who could bring the party together… I’m just not sure who that is.

Romney won’t work. He’s seen as a loser by wingnuts for the 2012 loss.

358
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:07:40pm

re: #355 EPR-radar

Really? How may amendments from the Bill of Rights have been removed? Prohibition proved far less strong than the 1st. Would you argue the 1st is as vulnerable to removal as prohibition?

359
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:07:56pm
360
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:08:23pm
361
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:09:53pm

re: #358 Great White Snark

Really? How may amendments from the Bill of Rights have been removed? Prohibition proved far less strong than the 1st. Would you argue the 1st is as vulnerable to removal as prohibition?

Absolutely. Anything that is in the text of the constitution at some point in time is the law of the land. While it was there, the stupid prohibition amendment was the law of the land just as much as the first amendment was.

The fact that prohibition was repealed and the first amendment won’t be repealed is irrelevant.

362
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:10:03pm

re: #358 Great White Snark

Really? How may amendments from the Bill of Rights have been removed? Prohibition proved far less strong than the 1st. Would you argue the 1st is as vulnerable to removal as prohibition?

I think what he means is that every effective part of the constitution is the supreme law of the land, so it doesn’t matter if it’s in the original text, the first 10 Amendments or the last 16 Amendments. There’s nothing that makes one clause more sacroscant than another.

363
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:11:02pm

re: #358 Great White Snark

Really? How may amendments from the Bill of Rights have been removed? Prohibition proved far less strong than the 1st. Would you argue the 1st is as vulnerable to removal as prohibition?

Well ladies, glad to know our right to vote is weaker than the right to free speech.

364
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:11:18pm

re: #361 EPR-radar

When the 1st becomes as vulnerable as prohibition lets re address the idea. Until then reality has a pro Bill Of Rights bias.

365
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:12:53pm

The second amendment to the United States Constitution needs amended.

366
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:13:05pm

re: #352 Great White Snark

XII was Not in the Bill Of Rights. Those are a higher set of values.

That was the concern of the Founders (as noted in their papers) that the Bill of Rights would somehow be seen as “more important” than other future amendments or other rights.

Any amendment which occurs after X is of equal status as the first ten. They are all in the Constitution. In theory the II Amendment could be repealed entirely (but it won’t). So could any of the first ten; they don’t have some godlike special status because they are the first ten. (They are sometimes worshipped that way, but I’ll bet African-Americans hold up XIII in more esteem than II or even III.)

Gotta take a time out:

Wife: When are you going to get on taking out the trash and doing the laundry?
Me: Right now, ma’am.

367
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:13:19pm

re: #356 KGxvi

It would have to be someone like Ryan, who didn’t run in the primaries. Anyone that Trump beat would only enrage his supporters. But I can’t imagine Ryan would accept the nomination - he’s already getting crushed as Speaker. Maybe Romney on an “I Told You So” platform? But does that sell to anyone that actually pays attention to the world not being Flea Bottom? Perhaps there’s a Republican governor that could be persuaded to accept the nomination, and who could bring the party together… I’m just not sure who that is.

I think the only one willing to do it with a real chance at winning is Kasich, but like you said it would absolutely enrage Trump’s supporters many of whom would sit out or possibly even vote for Hillary out of shear spite (these aren’t deep thinkers.) Even Kasich would have to look at how far he’d be behind in fundraising, in forming a national campaign apparatus, in GOTV ground game, etc and realize how difficult the task would be. Also, on top of everything else Trump isn’t the only problem anymore, today’s gun vote just fucked Republicans nationwide, whether they’re affiliated with Trump directly or not. There’s also a ton of unfired ammunition against Kasich in terms of his hellaciously strict record on reproductive freedom and other far right policies.

At a certain point anybody the Dumpers try to recruit into replacing Trump will realize they’re just being set up for horrific failure and the resulting blame.

368
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:13:46pm

re: #364 Great White Snark

When the 1st becomes as vulnerable as prohibition lets re address the idea. Until then reality has a pro Bill Of Rights bias.

Come on. The one and only reason prohibition is not the law of the land is that it was explicitly repealed.

Also, if we were to really have a bias for the first ten amendments over the later amendments, what do you say to the aggrieved slaveowner that argues his rights to his property under the bill of rights are infringed by the 13th amendment?

369
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:15:05pm

re: #333 teleskiguy

Robbing Peter to pay Ron Paul?

/

370
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:15:37pm

re: #298 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

It’s just imaginary money, like his “charitable donations”. It costs him nothing to “rent” Mar-a-Lago—he owns it!

371
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:15:42pm

re: #359 Charles Johnson

372
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:16:37pm

Here’s another problem with the whole Dump Trump idea.

373
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:16:52pm
374
FormerDirtDart  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:17:49pm

re: #334 jaunte

$4991 of Eric Trump wine…
how many boxes is that?

Eric Trump Whine:
But daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, you said I could be in charge of the campaign…

375
teleskiguy  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:18:22pm

It’s dark out. It’s still 85° F. It should be down in the 70s on its way to the high 50s.

I’m with klys. I hate summer.

376
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:20:35pm

re: #372 goddamnedfrank

Here’s another problem with the whole Dump Trump idea.

[Embedded content]

I don’t think the GOP anti trump will need to take the same positions as trump. I think their best bet is to go total milquetoast. Complete opposite of trump.

377
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:21:41pm

re: #279 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

whoismyvoice.com

Ah—thank you—that was the one I saw last week, and now I see my confusion. The whoismyvoice shows money taken this cycle, while I guess the other one is all-time.

378
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:21:46pm

re: #373 Charles Johnson

Trump is paying himself with his campaign funds as “payroll”?

This seems incredible. What’s his job title?

Casher of checks from stupid and malicious people?

Mobility Engineer for The Hair?

Asshole in Chief?

379
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:21:46pm

re: #373 Charles Johnson

If I can ask a stupid question, is this a campaign finance violation?

380
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:24:10pm

re: #373 Charles Johnson

Where’s the link that you are searching?

381
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:25:55pm
382
FormerDirtDart  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:26:40pm
383
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:27:29pm

re: #376 Stanley Sea

I don’t think the GOP anti trump will need to take the same positions as trump. I think their best bet is to go total milquetoast. Complete opposite of trump.

That’ll work to a degree but there are two big problems. First, it’ll absolutely enrage the racist base that elected Trump almost exclusively based on his hardline immigration rhetoric about building a wall and deporting all undocumented residents. Second, they probably won’t be able to offset that loss by growing the electorate in another direction. By that I mean I think the damage is mostly done as far as this election cycle goes, black and hispanic voters aren’t suddenly going to look at Trump’s replacement with kind eyes simply because he’s not Trump. Because whoever it is they’ll still be representing the same racist party that was so eager to castigate and persecute them.

384
Sherlock Hound  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:27:35pm

re: #321 Ziggy_TARDIS

It’s a dog whistle. She’s an anti-vaxxer through and through, but she can’t say that out loud for the general public. She says just enough for the crunchy sanctimommys to understand.

385
Ziggy_TARDIS  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:27:59pm

I decided to tear apart a Greenie on Twitter.

386
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:28:35pm

re: #376 Stanley Sea

I don’t think the GOP anti trump will need to take the same positions as trump. I think their best bet is to go total milquetoast. Complete opposite of trump.

There are millions of GOP base voters out there who will not be happy at replacing Trump’s red meat appeals to racism etc. with GOP-establishment approved pink slime.

387
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:29:30pm

re: #379 gocart mozart

If I can ask a stupid question, is this a campaign finance violation?

Not unless the campaign is paying more than fair market value for the services received and as long as the services are legitimately campaign related. As far as I’m aware there’s no regulatory requirement to bid campaign expenses out.

388
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:29:54pm

re: #368 EPR-radar

Come on. The one and only reason prohibition is not the law of the land is that it was explicitly repealed.

Precisely my point. That won’t happen to anything in the Bill Of Rights.

389
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:29:57pm

re: #328 Great White Snark

One of these things (legit defense) has nothing to do with a murder. The fact murder can happen is not a de facto reason to inhibit legit defense at all.

Now you’ve circled directly back to the right-wing argument that a single good case justifies all of the deaths that occur from unregulated use of weapons.

390
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:30:20pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

It’s dark out. It’s still 85° F. It should be down in the 70s on its way to the high 50s.

I’m with klys. I hate summer.

Just at sunset here, 63 degrees.

re: #376 Stanley Sea

I don’t think the GOP anti trump will need to take the same positions as trump. I think their best bet is to go total milquetoast. Complete opposite of trump.

And such a candidate would be slaughtered by the base voters (perhaps literally).

391
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:30:57pm

I’m going to guess that Trump donated “rounds of golf” to the campaign and is getting paid back in cash.

392
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:31:45pm

re: #335 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

True, but would it be enforced if Trump wins? If the legislature impeached and convicted him, and he declines to leave office, then what?

393
BlueSpotinAL  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:32:39pm

re: #334 jaunte

$4991 of Eric Trump wine…
how many boxes is that?

4991.

394
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:33:01pm

re: #389 Belafon

That’s a terribly distorted view of the idea I get to defend myself against a killer. How much of a disadvantage would you enshrine in law for an innocent under lethal assault ?

395
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:33:08pm

re: #388 Great White Snark

Precisely my point. That won’t happen to anything in the Bill Of Rights.

It won’t happen to slaveholding or women’s right to vote either, and they are not in the Bill of Rights.

I wrote a letter to the paper here once when the argument about marriage equality was fast and furious, noting that with the exception of the religiously-motivated XVIII Amendment, the entire history of the Constitution has been the expansion of liberty, not its restriction.

Considering the requirement to repeal or amend an amendment, it would be nigh-impossible to repeal any one of them unless they were universally hated.

396
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:33:51pm

re: #392 Belafon

True, but would it be enforced if Trump wins? If the legislature impeached and convicted him, and he declines to leave office, then what?

Police. Frog-march. Perp walk.

397
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:35:22pm

re: #391 The Vicious Babushka

I’m going to guess that Trump donated “rounds of golf” to the campaign and is getting paid back in cash.

Hahaha, I remember the old I have a credit card scam in college. I charge it, ya’ll pay me cash. I bust my card & credit ala trump.

398
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:35:35pm
399
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:36:25pm

re: #379 gocart mozart

If I can ask a stupid question, is this a campaign finance violation?

I don’t know. Haven’t checked that yet.

400
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:37:07pm

THIS PROVES HE IS VERY, VERY RICH!!!!

401
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:38:50pm

re: #377 BeachDem

Ah—thank you—that was the one I saw last week, and now I see my confusion. The whoismyvoice shows money taken this cycle, while I guess the other one is all-time.

This one?:

nracongress.com

402
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:39:33pm

re: #388 Great White Snark

Precisely my point. That won’t happen to anything in the Bill Of Rights.

There is no credible chance that any amendment currently on the books will get repealed.

So it is unclear how this observation is supposed to support some kind of extra-special status for amendments 1-10. Later amendments have changed the original text of the constitution itself (e.g., elimination of the fugitive slave clause from article IV).

That by itself is enough to show that all parts of the constitution have equal force and effect.

403
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:39:41pm

re: #395 Anymouse

It won’t happen to slaveholding or women’s right to vote either, and they are not in the Bill of Rights.

I do happily agree. “Thank Dog” rite? Anyways, gotta go argue with a landlord who is trying to revenge me for calling their incompetence out when I had an intruder with a key to my home come in. They feel insulted I called reality real, and now insist I must be home for any work to be done.

They fucked with the nice guy. That will Not Go Well for them.

404
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:39:42pm

Bear in mind the bar you need to clear for a campaign expense to be ruled legit is set so low it might as well be buried treasure. See for example Bernie Sanders’ Roman holiday.

405
majii  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:42:11pm

re: #383 goddamnedfrank

“By that I mean I think the damage is mostly done as far as this election cycle goes, black and hispanic voters aren’t suddenly going to look at Trump’s replacement with kind eyes simply because he’s not Trump.”

I think you just might be onto something here. I had a doctor’s appointment today. The TV in the waiting room was tuned to CNN where Lewandowski getting fired by Trump was the topic of discussion. Well, it just so happened that only blacks were in the waiting room at that particular time. Some of the comments I heard about Trump were not complementary. The general consensus seemed to be that he’s crazy. As a small group of us were discussing his campaign, four or five more blacks came into the office for their appointments. At hearing the name Trump, they did not hold back on their negative opinions about him. If most GOP pols think we don’t discuss politics and don’t know about the candidates, they’re wrong. They come up with all kinds of stupid reasons why we don’t vote for GOP pols, but none of them ever stop long enough to think that we’re watching them and remembering the things they’re saying about us and other Americans. There’s one thing about Black Americans that I know. We may not know each other, but even when we meet as strangers, we can, and do, discuss just about everything, including politics. The women at my hair salon have the same negative opinions about Trump and the GOP as those I encountered at the doctor’s office today. The only difference between the two groups is that the people I talked to today were senior citizens and most at my salon are younger.

406
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:42:13pm

Long trips coming up in the Anymouse household:

Tomorrow: Cheyenne VA
Next Week: Denver to have car serviced
First week of July: Manitoba, Ontario, Michigan

Afterwards (or maybe during) wife slaughters me for being trapped in a Smart for so many miles.

407
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:44:15pm

re: #394 Great White Snark

That’s a terribly distorted view of the idea I get to defend myself against a killer. How much of a disadvantage would you enshrine in law for an innocent under lethal assault ?

And how much would you contribute to the idea that guns are giving people an actual advantage they otherwise wouldn’t have, Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed:

…Overall, Branas’s study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher….

408
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:46:20pm

re: #394 Great White Snark

That’s a terribly distorted view of the idea I get to defend myself against a killer. How much of a disadvantage would you enshrine in law for an innocent under lethal assault ?

How many times more likely are you willing to make yourself to get shot just for some macho fantasy of “defending yourself”? P.S.—that makes you even more likely to get shot. Unless you walk around with the safety off, your hand on the trigger, 360º vision, and instantaneous reflexes, the attacker is always going to have the drop on you. Always.

409
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:47:40pm

re: #407 Belafon

It is likely that someone coming to rob my house, for instance, is only interested in robbing my house, not committing murder. I also have more than one door in my house, and property insurance. I see no need to die over property.

The only time I would consider my shotgun would be if I had absolutely no alternative. I would much rather give a good description to the police rather than a good looking long haired hippie corpse.

410
Donkey With No Name  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:49:22pm

re: #394 Great White Snark

That’s a terribly distorted view of the idea I get to defend myself against a killer. How much of a disadvantage would you enshrine in law for an innocent under lethal assault ?

Here’s the thing, I think the Framers would have considered the right to reasonable self-defense an obvious Ninth Amendment right that would be silly to spell out. So now people try to shoehorn an individual right into the Second, because they really want this in text somewhere, and Amendments are “more sacred.”

411
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:53:37pm

Another thing to keep in mind that if they do dump Trump at the Convention his replacement will have 3 months and 18 days to try and effectively counter a national campaign infrastructure that Hillary has been steadily building for over a year at this point, again starting with nothing in the bank.

Also, whoever it is, Hillary’s team has already researched the ever loving shit out of them. Her campaign is not going to be caught flat footed, they’ve got counters for every play the GOP can possibly imagine.

412
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 8:56:03pm

re: #390 Anymouse

Just at sunset here, 63 degrees.

And such a candidate would be slaughtered by the base voters (perhaps literally).

My point is, they need to say fuck you to the base.

Keep some semblance of sanity.

I am not naive that the GOP says all the shit trump does, but quietly. But, their key to survival is to appear sane.

413
BeachDem  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:01:13pm

re: #367 goddamnedfrank

I think the only one willing to do it with a real chance at winning is Kasich, but like you said it would absolutely enrage Trump’s supporters many of whom would sit out or possibly even vote for Hillary out of shear spite (these aren’t deep thinkers.) Even Kasich would have to look at how far he’d be behind in fundraising, in forming a national campaign apparatus, in GOTV ground game, etc and realize how difficult the task would be. Also, on top of everything else Trump isn’t the only problem anymore, today’s gun vote just fucked Republicans nationwide, whether they’re affiliated with Trump directly or not. There’s also a ton of unfired ammunition against Kasich in terms of his hellaciously strict record on reproductive freedom and other far right policies.

At a certain point anybody the Dumpers try to recruit into replacing Trump will realize they’re just being set up for horrific failure and the resulting blame.

You’re right about Kasich’s real view of women and women’s issues. Once it came to light, he’d probably do even worse in that demographic than Trump.

Kasich will have a hard time pointing to his anti-women agenda as proof he’s for women and women’s rights. In the legislature so far this biennium, there are six new attacks on access to reproductive health care, which includes four new bans on abortion care, defunding of an infant mortality program conducted by Planned Parenthood and provisions for additional tax dollars to unregulated anti-choice crisis pregnancy centers.

plunderbund.com

He has some serious issues with people of color as well.

When Kasich nearly finished filling his executive Cabinet earlier this month, not a single black, Latino or Asian was among those selected to manage the executive agencies of the state. His 22 appointments were exclusively white, and they were overwhelmingly middle-age men.

He breezed through the primaries as the “moderate” mainly because nobody paid that much attention to him anyway, but he’s a nasty piece of work, and I would devote every waking minute spreading the word about his true persona if they were stupid enough to pick him.

414
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:03:44pm

re: #412 Stanley Sea

My point is, they need to say fuck you to the base.

Keep some semblance of sanity.

I am not naive that the GOP says all the shit trump does, but quietly. But, their key to survival is to appear sane.

Well, about every forty years or so there is either a major shift in party philosophies or a party dies entirely.

We may be witnessing that now with the GOP, but it remains to be seen what happens after the election.

Back in 2012, they took their famed autopsy report and junked it. Former Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal noted they needed to stop being the stupid party.

Instead, they now have a candidate who proclaims he likes the uneducated.

Without a major shift in policy I can’t see the GOP doing a whole lot on the national level beyond this election. Square miles don’t win electoral votes, people do, and most of them live on the coasts.

415
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:04:09pm
416
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:05:53pm

We talk about Kasich being able to beat Hillary, but that’s the Kasich who was running in the Primary, and it presumed that The GOP Establishment hadn’t taken the nomination away from a guy that a large majority of the GOP see as having won it fair and square. If the GOP takes the nomination away from Trump, who seriously thinks Trump’s followers are gonna go out and vote for the guy they gave it to?

417
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:09:37pm

re: #416 Blind Frog Belly White

We talk about Kasich being able to beat Hillary, but that’s the Kasich who was running in the Primary, and it presumed that The GOP Establishment hadn’t taken the nomination away from a guy that a large majority of the GOP see as having won it fair and square. If the GOP takes the nomination away from Trump, who seriously thinks Trump’s followers are gonna go out and vote for the guy they gave it to?

Well, there are the so-called Never Trump people; they might. That wouldn’t do anything for Trump supporters, though, since a large part of his campaign is based on the idea that he is outside the establishment (meaning he never held any office).

I don’t understand that thinking. I don’t want a surgeon who never operated or an auto mechanic who never met an auto before, why would I want a politician in the highest spot in the land who never held any office?

418
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:10:39pm

re: #407 Belafon

re: #408 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

How many times more likely are you willing to make yourself to get shot just for some macho fantasy of “defending yourself”? P.S.—that makes you even more likely to get shot. Unless you walk around with the safety off, your hand on the trigger, 360º vision, and instantaneous reflexes, the attacker is always going to have the drop on you. Always.

That study did not deal with how some who carry do so as necessary. Career choices already selected them for higher risk. Posted on that earlier.

419
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:12:57pm

re: #418 Great White Snark

That study did not deal with how some who carry do so as necessary. Career choices already selected them for higher risk. Posted on that earlier.

I know you did. You’ll read anything any way it takes to feed your delusion that the attacker will not always have the drop on you. ALWAYS.

420
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:14:05pm

re: #418 Great White Snark

That study did not deal with how some who carry do so as necessary. Career choices already selected them for higher risk. Posted on that earlier.

Note the fellow in the Las Vegas Wal*Mart who had a concealed carry permit when one of the Talibanjo from the Nevada standoff came in to the store. Pulled his gun to be the good guy with the gun to save the day.

The cop-killer’s partner was waiting for just such a move and killed him from behind.

421
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:22:30pm

re: #418 Great White Snark

That study did not deal with how some who carry do so as necessary. Career choices already selected them for higher risk. Posted on that earlier.

What I’m seeing is that studies like this constantly refute what you believe about self defense and you’d rather just brush it off. Sorry, facts are facts.

422
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:34:17pm

re: #421 Not a Sparkly Vampire

What I’m seeing is that studies like this constantly refute what you believe about self defense and you’d rather just brush it off. Sorry, facts are facts.

I just can’t imagine the kind of world these people who are so desperate to “defend themselves” with handguns must live in. They must feel like Clarice Starling when the lights went out in the basement all the time. No way to go through life.

423
Joe Bacon  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:43:53pm

re: #324 Anymouse

There is a bit more than simply “Koreans defending their businesses proves individual rights under Heller” (which did not prohibit all regulations anyway).

Widespread looting, assault, arson, and killings occurred during the riots, and estimates of property damage was over $1 billion. The rioting ended after members of the California Army National Guard, the 7th Infantry Division, and the 1st Marine Division were called in to stop the rioting when the local police could not control the situation. In total, 55 people were killed during the riots and over 2,000 people were injured. LAPD chief of police Daryl Gates, who had already announced his resignation by the time of the riots, took much of the institutional blame for them.

On March 16, 1991, a year prior to the Los Angeles riots, storekeeper Soon Ja Du physically confronted black ninth-grader Latasha Harlins by grabbing her sweater and backpack over whether the 15-year-old had been trying to steal a bottle of orange juice from Empire Liquor, the store Du’s family owned in Compton. After Latasha hit Du, Du shot Latasha in the back of the head, killing her. (Security tape showed the girl, already dead, was still clutching $2 in her hand when investigators arrived.) Du was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and forced to pay a fine of $500, but not sentenced to any prison time.

his was the catalyst that fueled much of the rage against Koreans and Korean store-owners in the Los Angeles community.[original research?] Racial tensions had been simmering underneath the surface for several years. Many African-Americans were angry toward a growing Korean merchant community in South Central Los Angeles earning a living in their communities, and felt disrespected and looked down on by many Korean merchants. Cultural differences and a language barrier further fueled tensions in an already fragile environment. With the acquittal of four LAPD officers in the Rodney King beating trial and the aftermath of the Soon Ja Du trial where she was sentenced to probation for killing Latasha Harlins, the Los Angeles riots ensued and much of the anger was directed at Koreans.

en.wikipedia.org

I remember this nightmare all too weak since I live in Koreatown. ANYTHING with Korean writing on it was hit with Molotov cocktails. The day after, I had to go to my office to run payroll for my office. Walking down 6th street, every storefront with anything in Korean was torched. Broken glass all over the streets. Anarchists were still running around tossing the Molotovs. Glad I had a couple National Guardsmen with me.

I NEVER want to experience that again!

424
Joe Bacon  Jun 20, 2016 • 9:48:41pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

It’s dark out. It’s still 85° F. It should be down in the 70s on its way to the high 50s.

I’m with klys. I hate summer.

Right now (945) in Koreatown it’s 82. My apartment has cooled down to 88. I got a feeling the air conditioner compressor isn’t going to stop tonight…

425
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Jun 20, 2016 • 10:10:24pm

re: #385 Ziggy_TARDIS

I decided to tear apart a Greenie on Twitter.

When I lived in Wyoming, that’s what we called you Colorado peeps. :D

Anyway, be sure to clean up the mess when you’re done.

426
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 21, 2016 • 12:57:05am

re: #346 Anymouse

Perhaps if we dissolve Dr. Stein in a 10C solution, she will become that much more powerful.

In terms of policy Trump is the true homeopathic candidate since there are no molecules of policy to be found in his statements.

427
Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 21, 2016 • 12:58:39am

re: #355 EPR-radar

Nope. All parts of the constitution have equal force and effect.

But some parts are more equal than other parts.
///

428
Anymouse  Jun 21, 2016 • 1:21:45am

re: #426 Feline Fearless Leader

In terms of policy Trump is the true homeopathic candidate since there are no molecules of policy to be found in his statements.

re: #427 Feline Fearless Leader

But some parts are more equal than other parts.
///

LOL. Been a long time since anyone had to worry about their III Amendment rights being violated by forced quartering of troops in their homes.

As for Mr. Trump, who needs policy when you’re famous?

429
Jebediah, RBG  Jun 21, 2016 • 11:04:22am

re: #417 Anymouse

why would I want a politician in the highest spot in the land who never held any office?

It sounds to me like the Sarah Palin mentality - “We’re gonna get in there, and SHAKE THINGS UP!”
A gung-ho, energetic-sounding battle cry, but utterly meaningless as far as proposed policy. For a certain segment of the electorate, it effectively covers up that there is no policy being proposed (or even understood.)

430
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 11:32:51am

re: #325 EPR-radar

I don’t think “well-regulated” is a synonym for “lawful”. Instead I’m reasonably sure it relates to (severe) military discipline.

In any case, if your position is that the 2nd amendment is an individual right, then there’s no point in trying to shoehorn case studies into a militia framework.

Right, apart from answering to those that ask or push for that view. And it’s a answer contemporary to the time. Of course I think Heller applies, which of course was far from decided during the riots. I have always felt it was an individual right as in the pool of citizens that can become a militia.

431
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 11:51:52am

re: #362 KGxvi

I think what he means is that every effective part of the constitution is the supreme law of the land, so it doesn’t matter if it’s in the original text, the first 10 Amendments or the last 16 Amendments. There’s nothing that makes one clause more sacroscant than another.

Just actual SCOTUS history is all. None of those have ever been overturned, which apparently (down a couple/few) was not the context a couple good folks have taken from what I said. Standing up for the historic strength of that section. It’s in many ways the best of the document. Is it just the 2nd that makes ten hard to be proud of top to bottom?

432
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 21, 2016 • 11:55:42am

re: #431 Great White Snark

The Supreme Court has never overturned any amendments, so what does that have to do with anything? Prohibition was repealed by another amendment, not the courts.

433
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 12:17:42pm

re: #432 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m with Madison.

By the fall of 1788 Madison had been convinced that not only was a bill of rights necessary to ensure acceptance of the Constitution but that it would have positive effects. He wrote, on October 17, that such “fundamental maxims of free Government” would be “a good ground for an appeal to the sense of community” against potential oppression and would “counteract the impulses of interest and passion.”

Madison’s support of the bill of rights was of critical significance. One of the new representatives from Virginia to the First Federal Congress, as established by the new Constitution, he worked tirelessly to persuade the House to enact amendments. Defusing the anti-Federalists’ objections to the Constitution, Madison was able to shepherd through 17 amendments in the early months of the Congress, a list that was later trimmed to 12 in the Senate. On October 2, 1789, President Washington sent to each of the states a copy of the 12 amendments adopted by the Congress in September. By December 15, 1791, three-fourths of the states had ratified the 10 amendments now so familiar to Americans as the “Bill of Rights.”

434
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 21, 2016 • 12:29:26pm

re: #433 Great White Snark

Non-sequitur upon non-sequitur. You really want the 2nd to guarantee individuals the right to form one-man “well-regulated militias” to ensure the security of one-man “free states”, don’t you? Well, it doesn’t. It says nothing about individuals at all.

435
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 21, 2016 • 1:02:49pm

re: #433 Great White Snark

I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to make with this.

The history of the Supreme Court is irrelevant when it comes to “overturning” any amendments. The Court cannot, by definition. Only another amendment can.

436
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 3:18:21pm

re: #434 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

There is no pool to draw a militia from except individuals.

437
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 3:20:15pm

re: #435 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The point is the extraordinary value the Bill of Rights brings to our justice system and governance by the people. It is special, by intent and result.

438
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 21, 2016 • 3:21:02pm

re: #437 Great White Snark

The point is the extraordinary value the Bill of Rights brings to our justice system and governance by the people. It is special, by intent and result.

Oh, so you’re going back to the ten amendments are more special than the rest argument. Okay. Now I know to ignore that.

439
Great White Snark  Jun 21, 2016 • 3:24:07pm

re: #434 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Non-sequitur upon non-sequitur. You really want the 2nd to guarantee individuals the right to form one-man “well-regulated militias” to ensure the security of one-man “free states”, don’t you? Well, it doesn’t. It says nothing about individuals at all.

Did Madison say “except that pesky 2nd A? Nope. Also does not say anything about hunting. Which at the time was literally a sustenance necessity for millions of Americans. This demonstrates how many protected activities are not specifically named. Free Speech, but nothing about broadcasting. So by your logic the 1st would not apply to radio. But you do view the 2nd as some lesser life form among the other nine amendments in the Bill of Rights. I do not. That’s the crux of the matter between our views. I hold these ten as applicable to individuals. Not just some of them.

440
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 21, 2016 • 5:11:52pm

re: #439 Great White Snark

Did Madison say “except that pesky 2nd A? Nope. Also does not say anything about hunting. Which at the time was literally a sustenance necessity for millions of Americans. This demonstrates how many protected activities are not specifically named. Free Speech, but nothing about broadcasting. So by your logic the 1st would not apply to radio. But you do view the 2nd as some lesser life form among the other nine amendments in the Bill of Rights. I do not. That’s the crux of the matter between our views. I hold these ten as applicable to individuals. Not just some of them.

All that’s as may be. Unenumerated rights are just that: unenumerated. The Second has nothing to do with that.


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