Reuters Incorrectly Says Trump “Reversed” His Threat Not to Help NATO Allies

Not pivoting
Media • Views: 46,901

I’m continually amazed at how the media keeps trying to find evidence Donald Trump is “pivoting” to a more reasonable approach, no matter how many times he yanks that football out from under them.

Today’s example comes from Reuters, where Ginger Gibson writes that Trump has “reversed” his earlier threats not to come to the aid of NATO allies unless they “pay up:” Trump promises to work with NATO in defeating Islamic State.

Republican Donald Trump said on Monday he would work closely with NATO allies to defeat Islamic State militants if he wins the White House, reversing an earlier threat that the United States might not meet its NATO obligations.

In his second big policy speech in as many weeks, Trump said he would wage a multi-front “military, cyber and financial” war to defeat Islamic State.

“We will also work closely with NATO on this new mission,” said Trump, whose remarks about the defense organization earlier this summer drew heavy criticism from allies and even some of his fellow Republicans.

This is a total non sequitur; saying he’d work with NATO to defeat “radical Islamic terrorism” has nothing to do with his demand that allies pay the US or he won’t come to their aid. These are two entirely different subjects, and Trump made no reference to his extortion threat in this speech. He hasn’t “reversed” anything.

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374 comments

1
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:29:19pm

Gotta keep this race close so they can make themselves appear necessary in their current lazy-reporting form.

2
Joe Bacon  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:31:04pm

They need to lie about the so called neck and neck race to sell advertising!

3
Ia! Ia! Trump Ftaghn! (née Sophist)  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:33:09pm

He’s not reversing an earlier position, he’s just being his usual incoherent, disjointed self.

4
Robert O.  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:33:15pm

According to Politifact (politifact.com), Trump’s statements have the following record:

True: 4%
Mostly true: 11%
Half true: 15%
Mostly false: 15%
False: 36%
Pants on fire: 19%

If only this was an Olympics event, I am sure Trump would win the gold medal for his gymnastics on truth.

5
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:34:08pm
7
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:43:37pm
8
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:46:33pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

This McDermott guy’s twitter description looks so impressive, yet he is still one of the ignoramuses I wrote about earlier…

9
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:49:41pm

Hey, it’s Putin, so let’s make up all kinds of stuff about him, nobody cares.

10
BeachDem  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:49:57pm

The more you know—Trump campaign math, y’all:

“His rallies are going to continue to be his staple, but it’s not all we’re doing,” [Senior Trump adviser] Giorno said. “The rallies allow someone with his stature and his celebrity to do a more traditional type of retail politicking. It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.”

Who knew?

11
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:51:35pm

re: #8 Nyet

Just catching up on the last thread. Looks like you are saying Russia has already given their Trumps the nuclear codes. That means we must elect Trump!! We can’t allow a Batshit Gap!

12
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:52:53pm

re: #11 Decatur Deb

Just catching up on the last thread. Looks like you are saying Russia has already given their Trumps the nuclear codes. That means we must elect Trump!! We can’t allow a Batshit Gap!

Truth be told, Putin still has a better temperament than Trump.

13
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:53:06pm

re: #10 BeachDem

The more you know—Trump campaign math, y’all:

“His rallies are going to continue to be his staple, but it’s not all we’re doing,” [Senior Trump adviser] Giorno said. “The rallies allow someone with his stature and his celebrity to do a more traditional type of retail politicking. It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.”

Who knew?

not talking to someone one-on-one face to face is exactly like talking to someone one-on-one face to face

14
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:53:30pm

re: #12 Nyet

Truth be told, Putin still has a better temperament than Trump.

Bigger fingers, I guess.

15
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:53:41pm

huffingtonpost.com;

The Philippines is suffering a skyrocketing murder rate from vigilantes and police as newly-elected President Duterte makes good on his promise to allow extra-judicial killings of suspected drug dealers and users.

(NSFW for graphic photographs of murder victims)

16
Timothy Watson  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:54:00pm

re: #10 BeachDem

The more you know—Trump campaign math, y’all:

“His rallies are going to continue to be his staple, but it’s not all we’re doing,” [Senior Trump adviser] Giorno said. “The rallies allow someone with his stature and his celebrity to do a more traditional type of retail politicking. It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.”

Who knew?

lolwhut

17
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:55:10pm

re: #10 BeachDem

The more you know—Trump campaign math, y’all:

“His rallies are going to continue to be his staple, but it’s not all we’re doing,” [Senior Trump adviser] Giorno said. “The rallies allow someone with his stature and his celebrity to do a more traditional type of retail politicking. It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.”

Who knew?

More like knocking on 40 doors 1000 times.

18
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:55:37pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Bigger fingers, I guess.

If he has such big fingers, why all the half-naked photos? To prove what? /

19
Ia! Ia! Trump Ftaghn! (née Sophist)  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:55:58pm

re: #10 BeachDem

It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.

…on the doors of people who already support you as fervently as they ever will.

20
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:56:07pm

re: #10 BeachDem

The more you know—Trump campaign math, y’all:

“His rallies are going to continue to be his staple, but it’s not all we’re doing,” [Senior Trump adviser] Giorno said. “The rallies allow someone with his stature and his celebrity to do a more traditional type of retail politicking. It’s equivalent to 40,000 door-knocks.”

Who knew?

Yeah, no, that’s batshit crazy. Rallies are primarily for two groups: Those who already support Trump and those who are interested in supporting him. You’re not spreading the gospel to the unconverted, you’re preaching to the choir. It’s another aspect of the Potemkin Village that is the Trump campaign, faking the press into believing that Trump is way more popular than he really is. It didn’t work for Bernie and it won’t work for Trump.

21
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:56:40pm

re: #15 Anymouse

huffingtonpost.com;

The Philippines is suffering a skyrocketing murder rate from vigilantes and police as newly-elected President Duterte makes good on his promise to allow extra-judicial killings of suspected drug dealers and users.

(NSFW for graphic photographs of murder victims)

Shows that sometimes Trumpoids do fulfill their worst promises…

22
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:56:47pm

Reposting from the ass-end of the thread downstairs. *SIGH*

I’ve update my page on the Queens murders as they now have a suspect in custody. In addition to other details, I also pointed out this:

Kudos to Jewish activists who visited the mosque Sunday night in a show of solidarity, despite one Muslim activist having griped that Mayor De Blasio hadn’t yet visited the mosque, asserting that if the same had happened in the Jewish community he would’ve been there right away.

The Muslim activist may or may not be correct, but that sort of comment walks right up to the edge of being antisemitic (because he singled out Jews instead of saying, “If this was a Jewish or Christian community” or whatever). It was big of the Jewish activists to show up in support nonetheless. I hope Mr. Kukon took note of that:

But Khairul Islam Kukon, a community activist and a member of the mosque called out de Blasio for not visiting the site.

“It’s been more than 48 hours,” Kukon said. “The mayor has not been here. If this was a Jewish community, the mayor would be there the next hour.

De Blasio spokesman Eric Phillips said, “The mayor and our senior staff have been in constant contact with community leaders since the tragedy.”

Jewish activists visited the mosque Sunday night in a show of solidarity. Robert Silverman, 57, director of Muslim/Jewish relations for the America Jewish Congress, went straight to the mosque after getting off a flight from Indonesia.

We’re here to show support to the Muslim community,” he said. “It was a heinous crime. We have to rely on the police to decide if this was a hate crime. We really don’t know what this was motivated by.” […]

nydailynews.com

Anyway, even if you’re not interested in the ongoing drama of that story you might be interested in this, which I wasn’t aware of until about an hour ago:

It was reported on Friday, the day before the Queens murders, that two other attacks (both non-lethal) that occurred on Wednesday were being investigated by the NYPD Hate Crimes Task Force:

Hasidic man attacked in Brooklyn; Muslim man threatened in Queens

Two men attacked a 54-year-old Hasidic man on a Brooklyn street, one hitting the victim in the face with a basketball, the other ripping the yarmulke off his head, police sources said Friday. […]

The victim was heading to his apartment when the two men approached him.

No words were exchanged, but one of the suspects flung a basketball, hitting the victim in his face, while the other took his yarmulke, then threw it to the ground as he and his accomplice fled. […]

Also Wednesday, at 10 p.m., a suspect mocked and threatened a Muslim man walking past a library on 99th St. in Lefrak City in Queens.

“You Talibans like to blow yourselves up,” said the suspect, who was on a bicycle. “I have a blade and I can use it and take care of you.” […]

nydailynews.com

Making America great again, y’all—one hate crime at a time. //

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

23
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:56:57pm

re: #18 Nyet

If he has such big fingers, why all the half-naked photos? To prove what? /

I heard him explain that on NPR in relation to riding tigers: “The people expect and need it.”

24
Jenner7  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:57:19pm
25
BeachDem  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:58:12pm

re: #13 dangerman

not talking to someone one-on-one face to face is exactly like talking to someone one-on-one face to face

This Giorno moron is his Senior Advisor in Florida—I counter with my former “campaign kid” who has been working for Hillary in FL since March:

26
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:59:49pm

re: #21 Nyet

Shows that sometimes Trumpoids do fulfill their worst promises…

Duterte is also attacking the Philippine press for publishing graphic photos, including one of a woman cradling her dead husband “like Mother Mary.” Expect to see the suspension of a free press in the Philippines soon.

27
Timothy Watson  Aug 15, 2016 • 2:59:58pm

Blah, just finished watching the first season of House of Cards and the next season, which I just ordered, doesn’t get here until Wednesday from Amazon.

28
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:00:15pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

I heard him explain that on NPR in relation to riding tigers: “The people expect and need it.”

In a way.

29
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:01:09pm
I’m continually amazed at how the media keeps trying to find evidence Donald Trump is “pivoting” to a more reasonable approach, no matter how many times he yanks that football out from under them.

James Fallows referred to this particular phenomenon over the weekend…

The media narrative “The underdog is improving and has a real shot” is simply too appealing as a plot device to let go of right now. So get used to seeing Trump isn’t as bad as we thought! memes for the next month.

Of curse, it also has utterly no basis in reality. News pundits just cannot resist putting everything into a some sort of potboiler plotline to string the viewing and reading public along until the debates.

30
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:01:44pm
31
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:01:53pm

re: #28 Nyet

In a way.

Wow. That’s a tightly-reasoned, carefully worked-out crock of shit.

32
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:03:32pm

re: #29 Scottishdragon

James Fallows referred to this particular phenomenon over the weekend…

[Embedded content]

The media narrative “The underdog is improving and has a real shot” is simply too appealing as a plot device to let go of right now. So get used to seeing Trump isn’t as bad as we thought! memes for the next month.

Of curse, it also has utterly no basis in reality. News pundits just cannot resist putting everything into a some sort of potboiler plotline to string the viewing and reading public along until the debates.

I dunno. The media seem to be relishing the “Trump Death Spiral” narrative at the moment. Do not underestimate the power of Schadenfreude aimed at the guy who attacks them constantly while basing his entire campaign on free media exposure.

33
De Kolta Chair  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:04:14pm

34
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:04:44pm

re: #31 Decatur Deb

Wow. That’s a tightly-reasoned, carefully worked-out crock of shit.

A favorite book of many a high-brow fascist. Including Dugin.

35
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:05:31pm

re: #31 Decatur Deb

Wow. That’s a tightly-reasoned, carefully worked-out crock of shit.

Rod Dreher would almost certainly love it and tell us all it is the next big thing for the Benedict Option…

36
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:06:30pm

re: #32 Blind Frog Belly White

As Charles points out, though…the “Trump did something right today!!! seems to be catching on.

37
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:06:31pm

re: #34 Nyet

A favorite book of many a high-brow fascist. Including Dugin.

Is this yet another example of the appeal of a philosophy that convinces ordinary people that they are, in fact, special?

38
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:06:31pm

re: #34 Nyet

A favorite book of many a high-brow fascist. Including Dugin.

In all their medieval fantasies they are the lord on the horse, not the guy collecting its shit for winter fuel.

39
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:06:37pm

re: #32 Blind Frog Belly White

I dunno. The media seem to be relishing the “Trump Death Spiral” narrative at the moment. Do not underestimate the power of Schadenfreude aimed at the guy who attacks them constantly while basing his entire campaign on free media exposure.

Media spent a lot of time fawning over him to guarantee access…now they are reaping the ratings gold by trashing him and making him own up to all his bragging.

40
Patricia Kayden  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:06:55pm

re: #15 Anymouse

Or most likely, people are simply exterminating their enemies. The U.S. should be putting sanctions on The Philippines until Duterte begins to act like a democratic leader instead of a dictator.

41
goddamnedfrank  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:08:18pm

re: #32 Blind Frog Belly White

I dunno. The media seem to be relishing the “Trump Death Spiral” narrative at the moment. Do not underestimate the power of Schadenfreude aimed at the guy who attacks them constantly while basing his entire campaign on free media exposure.

Death Spiral doesn’t really increase ratings or sell ads. They’re under constant pressure from management to create a horse race. We’re seeing some pushback against that now in the form of instant fact checking in the chyrons, but I honestly wonder how long the newsroom producers will be allowed to get away with that before the business / editorial firewall gets breached and they’re forced to resume letting Trump’s lies go unchallenged in real time.

42
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:09:02pm

re: #40 Patricia Kayden

Or most likely, people are simply exterminating their enemies. The U.S. should be putting sanctions on The Philippines until Duterte begins to act like a democratic leader instead of a dictator.

He is the example of a charismatic leader, law-and-order kinda guy who speaks straight talk and is not afraid of PC or even annoying things like Rule of Law.

43
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:09:14pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

In all their medieval fantasies they are the lord on the horse, not the guy collecting its shit for winter fuel.

But they have a sacramental sense of time!!!

That was Rod’s absolutely no bullshit take on living in Tudor England based on some BBC series he was watching.

44
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:10:40pm

re: #36 Scottishdragon

As Charles points out, though…the “Trump did something right today!!! seems to be catching on.

It will be enlightening to see which narrative catches on. I myself was astonished by the Manafort quote claiming that last week Trump was focused and on point - the week of ‘2nd Amendment Folks’, and ‘Founder of ISIS. Seriously. No, sarcastically. But not THAT sarcastically’.

That’s focused?

45
Kryptik: Just Done With It.  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:10:56pm

re: #40 Patricia Kayden

Or most likely, people are simply exterminating their enemies. The U.S. should be putting sanctions on The Philippines until Duterte begins to act like a democratic leader instead of a dictator.

As someone who still has a lot of family there, mostly in Cebu, you have no idea how much this depresses me.

46
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:10:58pm

re: #36 Scottishdragon

As Charles points out, though…the “Trump did something right today!!! seems to be catching on.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is in play here. The media couldn’t be more obvious in how they’re regularly lowering the bar to allow Trump to remain a “viable” candidate. The flip side is half the shit Trump has gotten a pass on by the press would have been a campaign-killer for Hillary.

47
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:10pm

re: #40 Patricia Kayden

Or most likely, people are simply exterminating their enemies. The U.S. should be putting sanctions on The Philippines until Duterte begins to act like a democratic leader instead of a dictator.

They won’t because of the Spratly Islands and other Chinese claims in the South China Sea; geo-politics will trump human rights every time.

48
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:15pm

AND AGAIN…

49
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:24pm

re: #43 Scottishdragon

But they have a sacramental sense of time!!!

That was Rod’s absolutely no bullshit take on living in Tudor England based on some BBC series he was watching.

Grew up on that BS. Our tiny highschool library had a book titled “The Thirteenth, Greatest of Cenuries”.

50
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:26pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

An interesting guy, in a way. The esoteric mishmash in his head was sort of similar to what I described in prev. threat.

en.wikipedia.org

It was Evola’s custom to walk around the city during bombing raids in order to better ‘ponder his destiny’. During one such raid, in March or April 1945, a shell fragment damaged his spinal cord and he became paralyzed from the waist down, remaining so for the remainder of his life.[11]

51
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:36pm

re: #28 Nyet

In a way.

Ride the Tiger: A Survival Manual for the Aristocrats of the Soul (Italian: Cavalcare la Tigre) is a 1961 book by Italian Traditionalist philosopher Julius Evola. The first English translation (translated by Joscelyn Godwin and Constance Fontana) was published by Inner Traditions in 2003 (ISBN 0-89281-125-0).

You know, I think I read three of his books before I discovered Joscelyn Godwin was a man. Not that it makes any difference, but I admit being surprised.

52
jeffreyw  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:11:50pm

Cheesesteak anyone?

Imgur

53
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:13:15pm

re: #48 The Vicious Babushka

AND AGAIN…

[Embedded content]

OFFS.

54
Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:13:44pm

re: #40 Patricia Kayden

Or most likely, people are simply exterminating their enemies. The U.S. should be putting sanctions on The Philippines until Duterte begins to act like a democratic leader instead of a dictator.

This. It’s like the Purge Lite.

So fucked up.

55
De Kolta Chair  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:14:07pm

re: #52 jeffreyw

Cheesesteak anyone?

gratuitous sandwich insults scrubbed

That looks like a yummy sammich.

56
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:14:19pm

re: #49 Decatur Deb

Grew up on that BS. Our tiny highschool library had a book titled “The Thirteenth, Greatest of Cenuries”.

Why do I have a funny feeling that I’d not get much from that book after having read Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror”?

57
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:15:21pm

re: #48 The Vicious Babushka

AND AGAIN…

[Embedded content]

And the DOJ’s going to respond back “Thanks for the letter, we’ll get back to you,” then promptly junk it. To prove perjury, you have to have more than “these two statements don’t match,” you need evidence of willful intent to deceive. And Comey’s own testimony before Congress would indicate that evidence does not exist.

58
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:15:39pm

re: #56 William Lewis

Why do I have a funny feeling that I’d not get much from that book after having read Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror”?

Dante get me started.

59
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:15:47pm

re: #52 jeffreyw

Reminds me of the gyros in a bun with tzatziki I ate today. Yummy.

60
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:15:49pm

re: #52 jeffreyw

Cheesesteak anyone?

[Embedded content]

Looks better than my supper but actually it came out quite tasty. Frying up the can of tuna in olive oil made the difference I think.

61
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:15:54pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

In all their medieval fantasies they are the lord on the horse, not the guy collecting its shit for winter fuel.

Like in Bull Durham - “How come everyone says in past lives there were somebody famous? Nobody ever says, ‘I was Joe Blow.’”

“That’s not how it works, silly!”

62
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:16:36pm

re: #58 Decatur Deb

Dante get me started.

Ah but it would be A New Life :D

63
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:16:56pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

BTW…I have utterly no fucking clue what a “sacramental sense of time” means.

Time is related to space and gravity, last I heard. How we experience that is still something of a mystery…but I have no frame of reference to relate time as a component of the physical universe with some transcendental encounter with Divinity. One may as well have a transcendental encounter with light, gamma radiation or gravity.

64
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:17:19pm

re: #45 Kryptik: Just Done With It.

As someone who still has a lot of family there, mostly in Cebu, you have no idea how much this depresses me.

I’m sorry to hear about that. Hopefully Duterte can either be brought under control, or ousted. The Philippines has suffered enough through its history, they didn’t need a two-bit Donald Trump.

65
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:17:19pm
66
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:17:29pm

re: #52 jeffreyw

if he’s still around, i think williamlewis is game

67
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:18:14pm

re: #56 William Lewis

Why do I have a funny feeling that I’d not get much from that book after having read Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror”?

That was “The Disastrous 14th Century”.

68
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:18:34pm

re: #63 Scottishdragon

I suppose something like “everything going acc. to God’s plan” and stuff like that.

69
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:18:42pm

re: #50 Nyet

An interesting guy, in a way. The esoteric mishmash in his head was sort of similar to what I described in prev. threat.

So he was utter idiot who wandered around during bombardments.

Wow.

70
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:19:31pm

re: #56 William Lewis

Why do I have a funny feeling that I’d not get much from that book after having read Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror”?

Wasn’t A Distant Mirror subtitled something like “the disastrous 14th century?” So maybe you would learn something.

Edit: Aaaand late as usual.

71
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:19:48pm

re: #69 Scottishdragon

So he was utter idiot who wandered around during bombardments.

Wow.

An idiot would be someone who didn’t know that bombs kill and maim. That’s something else. Dunno. Religious idiotism?

72
makeitstop  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:20:22pm

OT: For Seinfeld fans, or fans of dark humor in general - a comedy writer for SNL writes a Seinfeld episode set in the days after 9/11.

He pretty much nails it. Kinda macabre, but pretty brilliant.

73
TK-421  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:20:45pm

Boy’s making ribs. We had to dial back our smoking though as DeeDee has developed some kind of allergy to smoked foods. So oven, then finish on the grill. Smelling so good.

74
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:20:47pm

re: #63 Scottishdragon

BTW…I have utterly no fucking clue what a “sacramental sense of time” means.

Time is related to space and gravity, last I heard. How we experience that is still something of a mystery…but I have no frame of reference to relate time as a component of the physical universe with some transcendental encounter with Divinity. One may as well have a transcendental encounter with light, gamma radiation or gravity.

It’s a common kind of religious romanticism rooted in the days before public sanitation and vaccines. Nothing like a 25-year life expectancy to help you focus on the eternal.

Just described my childhood in two lines.

75
goddamnedfrank  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:21:07pm

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

I mean, just think about the sheer number and magnitude of Trump’s fuck ups that were required to bring the national media to the current state of play. The dude literally had to attack a gold star mom who hadn’t said jack shit to him before the pundits were like “whoa!” And even that wasn’t the last straw, fuck we still haven’t seen the last straw. However the post convention polling meltdown and signs of GOP infighting have finally forced some people running our newsrooms to realize there’s probably no rehabilitating this race into the ratings bonanza they desperately wanted, and therefore the next best thing is making some small pretense towards actually doing their job by informing the public.

76
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:21:12pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

And the DOJ’s going to respond back “Thanks for the letter, we’ll get back to you,” then promptly junk it. To prove perjury, you have to have more than “these two statements don’t match,” you need evidence of willful intent to deceive. And Comey’s own testimony before Congress would indicate that evidence does not exist.

Such a letter is not aimed at the Department of Justice. It serves several purposes, most of which are to show:

a) The Justice Department is biased
b) The media (if it reports on the letter) is also biased
c) Spin up the base (Hillary Clinton is a criminal here is a new crime)

I seriously doubt they would expect a favourable response from the DOJ. It ain’t for them.

77
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:21:13pm

re: #62 William Lewis

Ah but it would be A New Life :D

78
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:24:55pm

re: #27 Timothy Watson

Blah, just finished watching the first season of House of Cards and the next season, which I just ordered, doesn’t get here until Wednesday from Amazon.

Heh, #FirstWorldProblems. There, there, you poor thing.
*pats TW on back, hands him a tissue*

79
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:25:26pm

Be praised, my Lord, through our sister Bodily Death,
from whose embrace no living person can escape.

—Francis, in one of his cheerier moments.

80
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:26:06pm

re: #68 Nyet

I suppose something like “everything going acc. to God’s plan” and stuff like that.

I think Rod was enthused on the slow pace and the chance to contemplate your place with God in some sort of daily communion without distraction.. except for the diseases, poor nutrition, lack of any education whatsoever, losing half your kids before they become adults, the local noble claiming your grain and fruit as well as the only cow you had, not to mention random rape, terror and whatnot as the Reformation got into high gear and Catholic or Orthodox heretics (like Rod!) kept ending up burning at the stake for public amusement.

Sacramental time is obviously awesome.

81
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:26:34pm

re: #76 Anymouse

Such a letter is not aimed at the Department of Justice. It serves several purposes, most of which are to show:

a) The Justice Department is biased
b) The media (if it reports on the letter) is also biased
c) Spin up the base (Hillary Clinton is a criminal here is a new crime)

I seriously doubt they would expect a favourable response from the DOJ. It ain’t for them.

The overall hope is that making a big public announcement means the DOJ’s dismissal of their “case” will help breath some more life into “Emailgate.” They’re trying to get around the FBI’s decision not to recommend and back to the original accusation, which is that Lynch is some evil harpy bent on covering up for Hillary and Bill’s “crimes.”

82
jeffreyw  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:27:25pm

re: #59 Nyet

Mmm… gyros

Imgur

83
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:28:40pm

Rudy Giuliani in Drag Smooching Donald Trump

Uploaded on Apr 14, 2006
Yes, it’s former NYC mayor Rody Giuliani in drag having his “breasts” shamelessly violated by “Apprentice” tycoon Donald Trump. Clip from new doc GIULIANI TIME, by Kevin Keating, now available on DVD from Cinema Libre Studio at cinemalibrestore.com. More at giulianitime.com.

84
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:29:27pm

re: #78 CuriousLurker

Heh, #FirstWorldProblems. There, there, you poor thing.
*pats TW on back, hands him a tissue*

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

That’s exactly what a dreaded Mommy Blogger™ would say. Shimshon was right! ////

85
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:32:00pm

re: #74 Decatur Deb

It’s a common kind of religious romanticism rooted in the days before public sanitation and vaccines. Nothing like a 25-year life expectancy to help you focus on the eternal.

Just described my childhood in two lines.

As a Rev War re-enactor I try to push back against people who think that earlier times were better.

The first thing I use is “Sure it was better, if you don’t mind leeches being used to ‘cure’ cancer and most anything else, and having 6 to 10 kids before you turn 35 while knowing that half of them will die in childhood.”

86
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:32:56pm

re: #83 BigPapa

Rudy Giuliani in Drag Smooching Donald Trump

LOL, I am SO gonna tweet that..

87
Lidane  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:33:53pm

Money quote:

I know this response to Sean Hannity is a little raw, but as someone with epilepsy, I hope my editors will let this slip through: Fuck you, Sean. Your willingness to deceive your viewers—to degrade those of us with epilepsy, to suggest something is a seizure when it looks nothing like one, to leave people dumber about this condition—is unforgivable.

88
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:36:49pm

re: #80 Scottishdragon

Rod sounds like a bunch of these older traditionalists, like the above-mentioned Evola or Rene Guenon aka Abd al-Wahid Yahya. All revolting against the modern world and finding refuge in a (usually somewhat exotic) Tradition (be that syncretistic esotericism, Islam or Orthodoxy).

89
whitebeach  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:39:55pm

re: #63 Scottishdragon

BTW…I have utterly no fucking clue what a “sacramental sense of time” means.

I think it means time as we experience it doesn’t matter because if we act right we’ll spend eternity with Jesus. Which doesn’t really appeal to me because as far as I can tell Jesus didn’t play chess or golf or watch baseball or like music or eat Cajun food and had zero sense of humor, and although he was something of a wino, he said really assholish things when he was drinking. The only thing worse would be to have to spend eternity with Rod Dreher.

90
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:40:30pm

re: #80 Scottishdragon

I think Rod was enthused on the slow pace and the chance to contemplate your place with God in some sort of daily communion without distraction.. except for the diseases, poor nutrition, lack of any education whatsoever, losing half your kids before they become adults, the local noble claiming your grain and fruit as well as the only cow you had, not to mention random rape, terror and whatnot as the Reformation got into high gear and Catholic or Orthodox heretics (like Rod!) kept ending up burning at the stake for public amusement.

Sacramental time is obviously awesome.

So what is stopping Rod from setting aside some time every day to commune with God? Maybe the time he spends telling everyone else about how terrible modern life is could be repurposed?

If he thinks medieval peasants were spending their time meditating on their relationship with the Almighty, I have a bridge he might like to buy.
Even in the 1600s the largely illiterate peasantry had, for the most part, no conception of any theology beyond not offending God so He wouldn’t send a plague or kill their children or cause them a debilitating injury, and so they could go to heaven when they died.

91
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:42:20pm

re: #85 Scottishdragon

As a Rev War re-enactor I try to push back against people who think that earlier times were better.

The first thing I use is “Sure it was better, if you don’t mind leeches being used to ‘cure’ cancer and most anything else, and having 6 to 10 kids before you turn 35 while knowing that half of them will die in childhood.”

That’s pretty close to my response to “but it’s natural!” “So is death in childbirth.”

92
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:44:23pm

re: #90 calochortus

So what is stopping Rod from setting aside some time every day to commune with God? Maybe the time he spends telling everyone else about how terrible modern life is could be repurposed?

If he thinks medieval peasants were spending their time meditating on their relationship with the Almighty, I have a bridge he might like to buy.
Even in the 1600s the largely illiterate peasantry had, for the most part, no conception of any theology beyond not offending God so He wouldn’t send a plague or kill their children or cause them a debilitating injury, and so they could go to heaven when they died.

And then Calvinism came along and took all the joy out of that.

93
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:45:58pm

re: #63 Scottishdragon

BTW…I have utterly no fucking clue what a “sacramental sense of time” means.

I think it has to do with a cyclical view of time as opposed to a linear view. The round of the sacramental calendar made every year the same as every other year, so progress was an incomprehensible concept. As it is to Rod Dreher….

94
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:46:36pm

re: #93 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I think it has to do with a cyclical view of time as opposed to a linear view. The round of the sacramental calendar made every year the same as every other year, so progress was an incomprehensible concept. As it is to Rod Dreher….

They still have Trappist monasteries. Fuck him.

95
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:47:09pm

re: #93 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

You may be onto something here. “This day, today, x years ago…” - every day. Not sure it was ever real for anyone outside of Rod’s head though.

96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:47:33pm

heh

97
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:48:11pm

re: #88 Nyet

Rod sounds like a bunch of these older traditionalists, like the above-mentioned Evola or Rene Guenon aka Abd al-Wahid Yahya. All revolting against the modern world and finding refuge in a (usually somewhat exotic) Tradition (be that syncretistic esotericism, Islam or Orthodoxy).

Yep.

Rod has stated (on many occasions) that everything went wrong with William of Ockham and the advent of nominalism in the 13th to 14th centuries… (sigh, look it up, I guess) and then things went really really wrong in the 18th century with the Enlightenment.

America, according to Rod, is a doomed, perverse and wicked society (he loves using wicked as often as possible)because we do not have a shared transcendental understanding of Nature and God…and that would only have been possible if we were less diverse (cue some anecdote from his race realism buddy Steve Sailor) and still held to Aristotle’s Theory of Universals.

See, if we still believed in universals (IE a universal type of male or female, or a universal type of green etc) then nominalist freak transgender people like me could never exist because the mental framework allowing for our very being simply would never arisen and we could never abuse will in order to transgress against the universal natural law.

Or some shit like that.

98
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:48:24pm

re: #87 Lidane

I sent that out earlier this morning with my own commentary to some FOX News watching Trump supporters around here:

newsweek.com (NSFW for language, from Newsweek of all places)

It just keeps getting better for the GOP, eh? Not satisfied with attacking Gold Star Families repeatedly in the press and on Twitter (Mr. Trump’s New York campaign manager even linked us to the Muslim Brotherhood), Sean Hannity on FOX News Channel now has mischaracterised a stumble Hillary Clinton made when being pulled in multiple directions as a seizure. (Yup, both parties are the same … except the Democrats don’t have their own media empire.) Of course, being called out for an “error” (to be charitable), FOX will not issue a correction (FOX never issues corrections). They will allow their viewers to be misinformed about both Hillary Clinton and epilepsy, as long as they can make money and push conservative candidates.

Of course, none of the things Mrs. Clinton did in any way resemble a seizure. No one laughs after a seizure. No one speaks coherently after a seizure. No one continues walking after a seizure. The implication that an actual person that really has epilepsy cannot hold an elected office (like me) denigrates those with epilepsy and misinforms FOX viewers about the disorder, and simply lies about Hillary Clinton. However, in the right wing blogosphere and on FOX, “Hillary Clinton has seizures” has been an article of faith for two years.

Note to readers: disability does not disqualify anyone for President even if she did have seizures: See James Madison (epilepsy), Bill Clinton (hearing impairment), Franklin D. Roosevelt (paralysis caused by polio), Dwight D. Eisenhower (learning disability), Thomas Jefferson (learning disability), Abraham Lincoln (severe depression), John F. Kennedy (learning disability, chronic pain), Ronald Reagan (hearing impairment), Woodrow Wilson (learning disability), and George Washington (learning disability). Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts also has epilepsy.

If it is okay for an epileptic to write the Constitution and Bill of Rights and be elected President (twice), you’d think that would be good enough for the strict constitutionalists at FOX. Nope.

Newsweek writer Kurt Eichenwald (who also has epilepsy) attacks Mr. Hannity over his lying remarks (with his editors letting him use coarse language not usually found in Newsweek), reminding Mr. Hannity of his Catholic faith and what the Bible has to say about lying.

Of course, neither Mr. Hannity nor FOX News Channel will apologise for -ah- “erroneous reporting,” as FOX never corrects itself when found to be -ah- in error. It’s almost as if FOX makes stuff up as it goes along… .

99
goddamnedfrank  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:51:30pm
100
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:51:53pm

re: #97 Scottishdragon

Yep.

Rod has stated (on many occasions) that everything went wrong with William of Ockham and the advent of nominalism in the 13th to 14th centuries… (sigh, look it up, I guess) and then things went really really wrong in the 18th century with the Enlightenment.

America, according to Rod, is a doomed, perverse and wicked society (he loves using wicked as often as possible)because we do not have a shared transcendental understanding of Nature and God…and that would only have been possible if we were less diverse (cue some anecdote from his race realism buddy Steve Sailor) and still held to Aristotle’s Theory of Universals.

See, if we still believed in universals (IE a universal type of male or female, or a universal type of green etc) then nominalist freak transgender people like me could never exist because the mental framework allowing for our very being simply would never arisen and we could never abuse will in order to transgress against the universal natural law.

Or some shit like that.

Some people apparently have way too much time on their hands. Maybe they could spend it communing with the Eternal or something rather than annoying their fellow human beings (who are infinitely more interesting when they aren’t forced into little boxes of who they ‘should’ be.)

101
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:53:25pm

re: #72 makeitstop

I got to Kramer’s friend Mo & the box cutters. Will have to go back. OMG.

102
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:58:58pm

re: #100 calochortus

Some people apparently have way too much time on their hands. Maybe they could spend it communing with the Eternal or something rather than annoying their fellow human beings (who are infinitely more interesting when they aren’t forced into little boxes of who the ‘should’ be.)

I guess he is lucky he could get a sinecure on the wingnut welfare train over at The American Conservative as a faux medieval philosophy intellectual despite having nothing more than a BA in journalism.

Roy Edroso at alicublog had some fun with imagining Rod trying to actually work for a wage…

If for some reason the market for my writing dried up, and I had to take a job doing something else to support my family, I would do it. But I would probably resist it for as long as I could, because it’s very hard for me to separate my sense of identity from my writing. Still, bills have to be paid, and I would hope that I didn’t hold out for long.

Now, I ask you — who could read that and not imagine Rod, at some future date when the Benedict Option racket has collapsed and nobody wants 5,000-word essays on how transsexuals are destroying the Republic anymore, in a variety of alternative professions:

Customer: Hello, I’d like to order a cake please.
Dreher: Would this cake solemnify a homosexual union?
Customer: It’s for a gay marriage anniversary party, but we don’t want anything written on the cake.
Dreher: Hmm, that one’s on the line. Would you mind praying over it with me?
Boss: DREHER YOU’RE FIRED

Customer: Hello, three tickets for Zootopia please.
Dreher: You’re bringing children to this?
Customer: Yes. It’s rated G.
Dreher: But it promotes anthropomorphic miscgenation. Have you read Robert Putnam? Well, I mean Steve Sailer on Robert Putnam — Putnam doesn’t know the importance of his own words.
Boss: DREHER YOU’RE FIRED

Furniture mover: Why you sit down? Only on job fifteen minute.
Dreher: I have mononucleosis. I have to rest frequently.
Furniture mover: Why you take job you sick?
Dreher: Because that’s what a man does! You think they’ll mind if I just lay down on the sofa that’s still in the truck?
Furniture: Boss catch you he fire.
Dreher: Well, of course — I’m white.
Boss: DREHER YOU FIRE

Oh, I could do this all day.

103
Ia! Ia! Trump Ftaghn! (née Sophist)  Aug 15, 2016 • 3:59:37pm

re: #90 calochortus

So what is stopping Rod from setting aside some time every day to commune with God?

The problem is that he can’t force everyone else to do likewise.

104
KGxvi  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:00:52pm

re: #99 goddamnedfrank

Internal poll or not, if there was a poll showing Trump within the margin of error in California rather than losing by 25-30%, it would be leaked and would be leading every cable news/Sunday show for two weeks. In fact, if any of those internal polls that show a completely different state of the race were true, they’d be made public… if only because Trump could not and would not stay silent about them.

105
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:02:11pm

That went on my clipboard an hour ago. Then I put training wheels on a bike and sold it. Then I posted it ‘cause it’s still good.

106
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:03:30pm

Speaking of cyclical time—The Fifth Force™ is baaaaack. I’ve seen this movie before. Twice. At least.

A Fifth Force: Fact or Fiction?

107
Interesting Times  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:05:17pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

A year ago today - hell, even 6 months ago today - I would have laughed and laughed and said, “no freaking way is the GOP establishment dumb enough to let Trump win.”

Does that count as “growth”, though? Feels more like the malignant kind…

108
KGxvi  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:06:49pm

re: #103 Ia! Ia! Trump Ftaghn! (née Sophist)

The problem is that he can’t force everyone else to do likewise.

I know a lot of European countries are “Christian” in the sense that they still have an official state religion, but are their actually any countries left in the world that are Christian theocracies? And if there are, who actually wants to live there? (I say the same about any theocracy, really, but I’m particularly curious about the Christian versions)

109
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:08:10pm

re: #107 Interesting Times

A year ago today - hell, even 6 months ago today - I would have laughed and laughed and said, “no freaking way is the GOP establishment dumb enough to let Trump win.”

Does that count as “growth”, though? Feels more like the malignant kind…

Yeah, I insisted they were smarter than that, too.

110
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:09:07pm

Trumpistas are still after that chicken on the Gold Star Family Twitter hashtags, this one from #Goldstarfathers - should I take off my Gold Star Family plates from my car, lest it be rolled over or keyed by concerned conservatives? Take of my lapel button lest a Trump supporter rip it off my shirt?

111
Jay C  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:09:12pm

re: #90 calochortus

Even in the 1600s the largely illiterate peasantry had, for the most part, no conception of any theology beyond not offending God so He wouldn’t send a plague or kill their children or cause them a debilitating injury, and so they could go to heaven when they died.

And, about as importantly, minding that they didn’t offend God’s earthly agents (rulers, nobles, clerics, etc.) either, as these were only too happy to help the Almighty along by “cleansing” the world of its “wickedness”: usually by the sword, gallows or stake.

112
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:09:38pm

re: #108 KGxvi

Technically, Vatican. I know, I know…

113
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:09:50pm

re: #108 KGxvi

I know a lot of European countries are “Christian” in the sense that they still have an official state religion, but are their actually any countries left in the world that are Christian theocracies? And if there are, who actually wants to live there? (I say the same about any theocracy, really, but I’m particularly curious about the Christian versions)

There’s Vatican City… However I think you’d have to define what would constitute a theocracy. Would it require that clerics rule? If not, how closely would they have to stick to Scripture in the laws.

114
makeitstop  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:10:03pm

re: #101 Stanley Sea

I got to Kramer’s friend Mo & the box cutters. Will have to go back. OMG.

Very dark. But boy, does the guy ever nail every character. Kinda creepy, actually.

115
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:10:36pm

re: #113 calochortus

There’s Vatican City… However I think you’d have to define what would constitute a theocracy. Would it require that clerics rule? If not, how closely would they have to stick to Scripture in the laws.

Massachusetts Bay Colony under the Puritans. For that matter, England under the Puritans.

116
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:11:16pm

re: #107 Interesting Times

A year ago today - hell, even 6 months ago today - I would have laughed and laughed and said, “no freaking way is the GOP establishment dumb enough to let Trump win.”

Does that count as “growth”, though? Feels more like the malignant kind…

We need to know the bad as well as the good if we want to get better. Part of getting better is realizing how bad off we were. It’s not fun to explore.

117
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:12:27pm

re: #115 Anymouse

Massachusetts Bay Colony under the Puritans. For that matter, England under the Puritans.

Neither one of those governments is still extant, which was, I think, the point of KGxvi’s question.

118
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:13:15pm

re: #115 Anymouse

Ah, Cromwell.

Liked in England, loathed in Ireland. For good reason on the side of the Irish.

119
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:13:43pm

re: #110 Anymouse

Trumpistas are still after that chicken on the Gold Star Family Twitter hashtags, this one from #Goldstarfathers - should I take off my Gold Star Family plates from my car, lest it be rolled over or keyed by concerned conservatives? Take of my lapel button lest a Trump supporter rip it off my shirt?

[Embedded content]

Our local Lowe’s has something not seen elsewhere—the nearest of their handicap parking slots to the front door not only has the h/c sign but a second one reserving it for Purple Heart recipients. Don’t know if that is standard throughout the chain.

120
KGxvi  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:15:03pm

re: #113 calochortus

There’s Vatican City… However I think you’d have to define what would constitute a theocracy. Would it require that clerics rule? If not, how closely would they have to stick to Scripture in the laws.

I don’t know that clerical rule would necessarily be required. I see it as more a blending of religion and government - it can take many forms, for example I’d consider both Saudi Arabia and Iran to be theocracies. I suppose it would come down to the State enforcing/requiring religious practices.

121
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:15:07pm

re: #115 Anymouse

Massachusetts Bay Colony under the Puritans. For that matter, England under the Puritans.

Pasquale Paoli’s Corsican Republic—a big inspiration to our Founding Fathers—made the Virgin Mary Head of State.

122
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:15:21pm

re: #90 calochortus

So what is stopping Rod from setting aside some time every day to commune with God? Maybe the time he spends telling everyone else about how terrible modern life is could be repurposed?

If he thinks medieval peasants were spending their time meditating on their relationship with the Almighty, I have a bridge he might like to buy.
Even in the 1600s the largely illiterate peasantry had, for the most part, no conception of any theology beyond not offending God so He wouldn’t send a plague or kill their children or cause them a debilitating injury, and so they could go to heaven when they died.

You might be forgetting that Rod might view this period as “good” since he expects to be one of the nobles or clerics sitting on top of the pile and getting food and shelter that the peasants labor so hard to produce. And while he can tell them how lucky they are to have the physical and spiritual protectors that do so well for them since that is what God commands.

123
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:15:44pm

re: #115 Anymouse

Massachusetts Bay Colony under the Puritans. For that matter, England under the Puritans.

Tibet before the Chinese takeover. (Oopps— not Christian.)

124
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:16:23pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

Our local Lowe’s has something not seen elsewhere—the nearest of their handicap parking slots to the front door not only has the h/c sign but a second one reserving it for Purple Heart recipients. Don’t know if that is standard throughout the chain.

So Trump could park there?

125
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:16:45pm

Wow. Malcom Nance is pissed and ripping on Trump big time about Trump today on Hardball.

He just said it was the single most unAmerican thing he has ever seen in this modern age and smacks of Politiburo and McCarthyism.

You could see the steam rising.

Oh, and Dana Loesch is on. I think Malcom wants to reach through the different connections and slap her. He is struggling being calm.

And Tweety Matthews is asking some really dumb questions.

I’ll try to post the video once the show is over and MSNBC puts it up

126
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:17:05pm

re: #124 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

So Trump could park there?

Once.

127
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:18:41pm

re: #120 KGxvi

In Iran, the structure of the government is so bizarre, I don’t think it can hold. Diagram below.

128
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:18:49pm

re: #108 KGxvi

I know a lot of European countries are “Christian” in the sense that they still have an official state religion, but are their actually any countries left in the world that are Christian theocracies? And if there are, who actually wants to live there? (I say the same about any theocracy, really, but I’m particularly curious about the Christian versions)

You mean besides the Vatican?

129
makeitstop  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:20:28pm

re: #125 ObserverArt

Wow. Malcom Nance is pissed and ripping on Trump big time about Trump today on Hardball.

He just said it was the single most unAmerican thing he has ever seen in this modern age and smacks of Politiburo and McCarthyism.

You could see the steam rising.

Oh, and Dana Loesch is on. I think Malcom wants to reach through the different connections and slap her. He is struggling being calm.

And Tweety Matthews is asking some really dumb questions.

I’ll try to post the video once the show is over and MSNBC puts it up

Nance was live-tweeting the speech but lost audio before it was over. He watched the rest and tweeted a summary.

When an intel vet is fearing for the country, you know the speech was really, really bad.

130
goddamnedfrank  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:20:30pm

re: #108 KGxvi

I know a lot of European countries are “Christian” in the sense that they still have an official state religion, but are their actually any countries left in the world that are Christian theocracies? And if there are, who actually wants to live there? (I say the same about any theocracy, really, but I’m particularly curious about the Christian versions)

The Constitutions of Malta and Monaco both describe Roman Catholicism as the official religion of the State.

131
ExpatGirl  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:20:33pm

Just because someone can write about a subject doesn’t mean they understand it. See: Reuters journalist confusing two issues.

Am watching Tweety (why? I can’t really explain it.) and he is bending over backwards to find ways to give Trump a quarter on his dangerous, thoroughly unAmerican speech.

132
Scottishdragon  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:22:56pm

re: #125 ObserverArt

And Tweety Matthews is asking some really dumb questions.

You mean like that bit about the English going after Irish people because of the IRA?? Therefore go after Muslims presumably?

I guess he forgot the bit where the British Army and associated brutality of the RUC and the Orangemen were the best recruiters the IRA ever had. Nothing like seeing some masked Protestant men come into your Catholic neighborhood and kill your dad and then brutalize your mother and older sister to convince you and your kid brother to start making bombs and carrying supplies for the Provos…

Funny how that works…and we repeat history right here if we do the same thing to American Muslims.

133
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:26:20pm

Anti-Choice Group to Receive $1.6 Million Health Grant
More taxpayer dollars for Carol Everett’s the Heidi Group

During a hearing earlier this month that weighed the state health department’s proposed rule to bury or cremate fetal tissue (also known as: conservative politicians’ latest attack on abortion access), Carol Everett worried aloud of the threat of contracting STDs and HIV from an infected woman’s fetal remains through the sewer system.

“What if one day something horrible escaped into the sewer system?” she asked, eliciting laughter from pro-choice advocates in the room (see “Fetal Burial Saga Continues,” Aug. 5). Everett reiterated her deeply unscientific and unfounded concern on an Austin Fox news affiliate.

Just days later, the state awarded Everett and her anti-choice organization, the Heidi Group, with some $1.65 million in public funding for health care services, as first reported by the Texas Observer. With money flowing to more than two dozen credible institutions like the Baylor College of Medicine and the Harris County Hospital District, Heidi Group - a Round Rock-based Christian nonprofit that advocates against abortion - stands to gain the second most sizable annual contract. (So far, no funding this cycle will reach the hands of an Austin health provider.)

The Heidi Group provides NO women’s health care services.

134
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:27:24pm

re: #120 KGxvi

I don’t know that clerical rule would necessarily be required. I see it as more a blending of religion and government - it can take many forms, for example I’d consider both Saudi Arabia and Iran to be theocracies. I suppose it would come down to the State enforcing/requiring religious practices.

I think in most cases official government religions in modern democracies are more likely to result in people being freed from religious obligations (the government is taking care of that for them) than enforcing them.

135
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:27:27pm

re: #131 ExpatGirl

Just because someone can write about a subject doesn’t mean they understand it.

You can stop reading my comments.

////?

136
KGxvi  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:28:07pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

The Constitutions of Malta and Monaco both describe Roman Catholicism as the official religion of the State.

Sure, and the constitutions of Denmark, Iceland, and Sweden also name official churches/religions. But they also provide for freedom of religion. What I’m asking about is the practice of the state enforcing religious practices. It’s one thing for a nation state to recognize an official religion, it is something else for that nation state to compel the practice of that religion or otherwise enforce requirements of that religion.

137
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:29:04pm

re: #133 Backwoods_Sleuth

Anti-Choice Group to Receive $1.6 Million Health Grant
More taxpayer dollars for Carol Everett’s the Heidi Group

The Heidi Group provides NO women’s health care services.

What a crime.

138
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:29:52pm

At the risk of boring you—more details and additional video at the link:

NYPD Believe Man They Have In Custody Killed Imam, Associate

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — The NYPD believes a man they have in custody is the person behind the fatal shooting of an imam and his associate.

NYPD Chief of Detectives Robert Boyce said during a press conference Monday night that they believe the suspect in custody for a hit-and-run in Brooklyn is the same person who killed Imam Maulama Akonjee, 55, and his assistant Thara Uddin, 64. […]

Presser with Mayor De Blasio (starts around 6:00):

Mayor de Blasio Hosts Press Conference

139
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:31:21pm

re: #136 KGxvi

It’s one thing for a nation state to recognize an official religion, it is something else for that nation state to compel the practice of that religion or otherwise enforce requirements of that religion.

Like forbidding abortions? I’d put all such bans on religion, usually Christianity.

140
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:31:41pm

re: #136 KGxvi

Sure, and the constitutions of Denmark, Iceland, and Sweden also name official churches/religions. But they also provide for freedom of religion. What I’m asking about is the practice of the state enforcing religious practices. It’s one thing for a nation state to recognize an official religion, it is something else for that nation state to compel the practice of that religion or otherwise enforce requirements of that religion.

Pew Research on religious police around the world. None in Europe or the Americas

141
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:33:04pm

Oh, and here’s a consolation prize that I doubt you’ll be bored by (unless you’ve already seen it):

142
GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:33:50pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

One of the local Home Depot’s has a setup like that too.

143
No Depression  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:34:52pm

re: #133 Backwoods_Sleuth

Anti-Choice Group to Receive $1.6 Million Health Grant
More taxpayer dollars for Carol Everett’s the Heidi Group

The Heidi Group provides NO women’s health care services.

If Texas gains independence, it’ll join Vatican City as the only Christian theocracies in the world.

(And yes I’m being sarcastic, but not that sarcastic.)

144
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:35:06pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

Like forbidding abortions? I’d put all such bans on religion, usually Christianity.

Not in Stalin’s USSR or Ceausescu’s Romania…

145
makeitstop  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:35:39pm

re: #138 CuriousLurker

At the risk of boring you—more details and additional video at the link:

Presser with Mayor De Blasio (starts around 6:00):

[Embedded content]

I really hope they’ve got the guy. I read somewhere that there were tensions between Muslims and Hispanics in that neighborhood, and the police said that the shooter was someone with lots of experience with firearms due to a surveillance video that showed him calmly murdering the two men.

I’m afraid that if the shooter is still at large, he could attack again.

146
calochortus  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:36:05pm

BBL

147
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:36:23pm

re: #132 Scottishdragon

You mean like that bit about the English going after Irish people because of the IRA?? Therefore go after Muslims presumably?

I guess he forgot the bit where the British Army and associated brutality of the RUC and the Orangemen were the best recruiters the IRA ever had. Nothing like seeing some masked Protestant men come into your Catholic neighborhood and kill your dad and then brutalize your mother and older sister to convince you and your kid brother to start making bombs and carrying supplies for the Provos…

Funny how that works…and we repeat history right here if we do the same thing to American Muslims.

Yes…just like that. Freaking outrageous. Actually the bit with Nikita Khrushchev’s granddaughter, Nina L. Khrushcheva, was good info and Tweety was being dense there too. I don’t know if he is getting dumber or he is being paid to, but it may be time for Chris Matthews to retire. He is a lost soul in my opinion. And I say that as a person close to retirement myself…so it isn’t an ageist thing.

148
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:36:39pm

re: #133 Backwoods_Sleuth

Anti-Choice Group to Receive $1.6 Million Health Grant
More taxpayer dollars for Carol Everett’s the Heidi Group

The Heidi Group provides NO women’s health care services.

Why is it called the Heidi Group? Was it founded by Mrs. Ted Cruz?

149
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:41:53pm

re: #148 The Vicious Babushka

Why is it called the Heidi Group? Was it founded by Mrs. Ted Cruz?

No idea why it has that name.
It was founded by Carol Everett.

150
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:42:54pm

re: #144 Nyet

Not in Stalin’s USSR or Ceausescu’s Romania…

We can’t call Communism a religion, can we? Nor patriarchy a religion. OK, not all.

151
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:43:27pm

Automatic Blocking Function triggered…

152
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:43:54pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

Like forbidding abortions? I’d put all such bans on religion, usually Christianity.

A safe bet. But I do not know the stance on all major or fairly sizable religious groups. Even then they may have tinges of Christianity in them.

Anyone know any?

153
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:44:00pm

re: #140 calochortus

Pew Research on religious police around the world. None in Europe or the Americas

Were she still alive, Savita Halappanavar would surely beg to disagree. Ireland might not have “religious police,” but I would argue that the requirements of Roman Catholicism were indeed enforced upon her even though she and her husband were Hindu:

Abortion refusal death: Hindu woman told Ireland ‘is a Catholic country’

The husband of an Indian woman who died after being denied an abortion at an Irish hospital broke down in tears on Monday as he described how they pleaded that as Hindus they were not morally opposed to a termination that could have saved her life.

Praveen Halappanavar repeated his claim that a doctor, named at the inquest in Galway as Dr Katherine Astbury, told him that a termination could not be performed because “this is a Catholic country”. […]

I don’t know if anything has changed since then, legally speaking.

154
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:44:48pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

Even if one does call Communism a religion, these bans were not caused by Communist principles, so still not religion-based ;)

155
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:45:24pm

re: #148 The Vicious Babushka

Why is it called the Heidi Group? Was it founded by Mrs. Ted Cruz?

It is named after Carol Everett Heidi, who is apparently a real estate agent and anti-abortion activist (qualifying her for women’s healthcare).

156
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:46:25pm

re: #154 Nyet

Even if one does call Communism a religion, these bans were not caused by Communist principles, so still not religion-based ;)

What were the bans caused by?

157
sagehen  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:47:07pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

What were the bans caused by?

Needing cannon fodder.

158
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:47:28pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

What were the bans caused by?

Practical considerations like the need for more cannon fodder.

159
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:47:42pm

re: #148 The Vicious Babushka

Why is it called the Heidi Group? Was it founded by Mrs. Ted Cruz?

Named after the only force capable of having the broadcast of an NFL game superseded. (Note how Trump fears holding a debate in competition with an NFL game.)

en.wikipedia.org

160
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:48:32pm

re: #154 Nyet

Even if one does call Communism a religion, these bans were not caused by Communist principles, so still not religion-based ;)

Can you explain what they are/were based on? Population numbers needs maybe.

Edit…I see wrench beat me and Sergey gave the suspected answer.

161
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:48:33pm

Progress Texas has filed a complaint with the Texas HHSC for misusing government funds in its award for the Heidi Group. I cannot copy from Scribd, but the document is fascinating (the organisation provides no healthcare service, &c).

scribd.com

162
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:48:47pm

re: #153 CuriousLurker

They loosened restrictions slightly with the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act, passed in 2013

163
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:50:17pm

re: #158 Nyet

Just as well China had a reverse policy for the opposite reason.

164
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:51:10pm

Wonkette is getting hammered for this article about Juanita Broaddrick==>
wonkette.com

165
wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:52:13pm

re: #157 sagehen

Needing cannon fodder.

re: #158 Nyet

Practical considerations like the need for more cannon fodder.

Those pro-lifers….

166
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:53:17pm

No surprise from the complaint in Texas, as it turns out that Carol Everett Heidi serves on the Women’s Health Advisory Board.

(Steering herself business with a government commission apparently, conservative Christian values on display again… .)

167
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:53:36pm

re: #164 The Vicious Babushka

Wonkette is getting hammered for this article about Juanita Broaddrick==>
wonkette.com

By idiots?

Great article.

168
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:54:24pm
169
Lidane  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:56:09pm
170
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:56:44pm

re: #167 Nyet

By idiots?

Great article.

Apparently some feminists on Twitter are displeased with Rebecca, calling her a “rape apologist”

171
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:56:56pm

re: #168 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Weren’t Millenials supposedly going to run screaming from Hillary and into the welcoming arms of Jill Stein?

172
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:57:31pm

We don’t know what happened between Clinton and Broaddrick (if anything), but dismissal of her claim on fallacious grounds, despite some corroborating (even if not fully confirming) evidence has always rubbed me the wrong way, especially from progressives. (And of course, for wingnuts the situation is reversed: this is the only rape claim they seem to believe outright.)

173
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:57:53pm

re: #170 The Vicious Babushka

Apparently some feminists on Twitter are displeased with Rebecca, calling her a “rape apologist”

Sheesh.

174
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 4:59:10pm

re: #170 The Vicious Babushka

These are likely the same type of feminists I see on Tumblr constantly bashing Moffat for being a supposed Misogynist. Which is a really dumb accusation.

175
makeitstop  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:00:28pm

re: #171 Targetpractice

Weren’t Millenials supposedly going to run screaming from Hillary and into the welcoming arms of Jill Stein?

It seems to have occurred to them that a vote for Stein wold be a vote for Trump.

176
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:01:44pm

Fuck, I am so dead

177
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:01:46pm

Still after that Gold Star Family chicken. As far as I’m concerned conservatives should be held up every minute this goes on… .

178
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:02:10pm

re: #174 Ziggy_TARDIS

Someone calling themselves a feminist does not automatically give them a halo of righteousness. Let’s not forget all the TERFs, many of whom used to be quite mainstream feminists in the 1960s-80s, until the world progressed further and left them behind.

179
goddamnedfrank  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:02:22pm

re: #170 The Vicious Babushka

Apparently some feminists on Twitter are displeased with Rebecca, calling her a “rape apologist”

From what I can tell she’s been catching shit from dudebros, gamergaters and other disingenuous MRA types, few actual feminists.

180
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:02:50pm

re: #176 The Vicious Babushka

Me too.

181
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:04:21pm

re: #179 goddamnedfrank

From what I can tell she’s been catching shit from dudebros, gamergaters and other disingenuous MRA types, few actual feminists.

Here is one actual feminist :

182
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:04:44pm

From a person who claims to be a yacht broker in Florida, on CNN’s report of a release of prisoners from Guantanamo:

183
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:07:43pm

re: #178 Nyet

Yeah, although in the case of Moffat and this, I think it is something different.

Namely, we have people who learned about Gender Theory during an Intro Class in college that they half slept through.

184
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:08:23pm

re: #183 Ziggy_TARDIS

That also happens :D

185
stpaulbear  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:08:53pm

re: #125 ObserverArt

Wow. Malcom Nance is pissed and ripping on Trump big time about Trump today on Hardball.

He just said it was the single most unAmerican thing he has ever seen in this modern age and smacks of Politiburo and McCarthyism.

You could see the steam rising.

Oh, and Dana Loesch is on. I think Malcom wants to reach through the different connections and slap her. He is struggling being calm.

And Tweety Matthews is asking some really dumb questions.

I’ll try to post the video once the show is over and MSNBC puts it up

Joe Biden was on the same kind of tear this afternoon. He’s pretty much seething about how stupid, unqualified and dangerous that Trump is even as a candidate. It was a really interesting speech. Half of it was more of a classroom lecture. He was telling people to not cheer - just listen closely to what he had to say. He was pissed.

Full Speech: Vice President Joe Biden Speech at Hillary Clinton Rally in Scranton, PA (8/15/16)

186
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:09:53pm

re: #165 wrenchwench

Those pro-lifers….

LOL!

187
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:10:45pm

And the bros are in force in the comment section:

ifthethunderdontgetyaTM³²(r)(c) • an hour ago
Let’s talk about Libya. Let’s talk about Honduras.

Heck, let’s talk about all the neocons (e.g. Max Boot) who are endorsing HRC.

Maybe you need to rethink what you’ve done with this blog, Rebecca.
~
2

188
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:12:47pm

*Here’s an argument unrelated to foreign policy.*

- No! Let’s talk about Libya! And Honduras!

189
Anymouse  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:14:09pm

re: #188 Nyet

*Here’s an argument unrelated to foreign policy.*

- No! Let’s talk about Libya! And Honduras!

I suspect Rebecca will be putting a number of these comments in her “Dear Shitferbrains” column next weekend.

190
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:18:44pm

re: #188 Nyet

Til the day I die, I will believe we did the right thing in Libya. Things are messy there now, but that is how revolutions are. It took the US until 1787 to get the constitution we have now.

Honduras is weird, and the situation there was a muddle.

191
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:19:01pm

re: #182 Anymouse

From a person who claims to be a yacht broker in Florida, on CNN’s report of a release of prisoners from Guantanamo:

She didn’t seem particularly concerned about the defense of #goldstarfamilies when the family in question was Muslim. Imagine my surprise. //

192
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:22:08pm

re: #177 Anymouse

Still after that Gold Star Family chicken. As far as I’m concerned conservatives should be held up every minute this goes on… .

[Embedded content]

They hate that they’re no longer seen as the patrons of the military and they’re failing miserably at trying to reclaim the mantle.

193
Patricia Kayden  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:25:35pm

re: #161 Anymouse

Progress Texas has filed a complaint with the Texas HHSC for misusing government funds in its award for the Heidi Group. I cannot copy from Scribd, but the document is fascinating (the organisation provides no healthcare service, &c).

scribd.com

Good to hear. This is why we need a Democratic President to replace Scalia.

194
TK-421  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:28:37pm

I’ll have to do less sitting and more laying around. Problem solved!

195
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:29:10pm

re: #185 stpaulbear

Joe Biden was on the same kind of tear this afternoon. He’s pretty much seething about how stupid, unqualified and dangerous that Trump is even as a candidate. It was a really interesting speech. Half of it was more of a classroom lecture. He was telling people to not cheer - just listen closely to what he had to say. He was pissed.

[Embedded content]

Saw a good portion of Joe. I expect Trump, Manfort and Gang will attack Joe in the next day or so. If they do, they risk pissin’ off even more moderate Repubs that like Joe.

Why some of this stuff might even make Dark_Falcon vote for Hillary! /

196
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:29:15pm

re: #190 Ziggy_TARDIS

Had Obama done nothing in L., the same people would now be blaming him for the deaths of the rebels.

197
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:29:50pm
198
Varek Raith  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:29:59pm

re: #194 TK-421

I’ll have to do less sitting and more laying around. Problem solved!

That explains why you aren’t at your post.

199
Frankie Five Angels  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:31:06pm

re: #197 Backwoods_Sleuth

200
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:35:21pm

re: #170 The Vicious Babushka

Apparently some feminists on Twitter are displeased with Rebecca, calling her a “rape apologist”

The problem is that we have wisely narrowed the definition of consent with the concomitant broadening of the definition of rape, while holding onto the the understandings that are true of those who were rapists under the old definition. That is, ‘rape is about power, not sex’; ‘those who commit rape will tend to do it again and again’.

But for those of us of the Boomer generation and earlier, we were raised with a different idea of consent, because women were supposed to be reluctant, because if they weren’t, they were branded as sluts. So if a woman wanted to have sex, she had to walk the fine line between eagerness which could get her a reputation as ‘easy’ and reluctance which would discourage the man. For men, it was about knowing what was a show of reluctance and what really meant “No.”

I’m reminded of the shitstorm that the GoT showrunners experienced over the scene in the Sept of Baelor, between Jaime and Cersei. A majority of the viewers saw it as rape, because she was clearly objecting and saying ‘No, stop!’, while the showrunners hadn’t seen that because she eventually got into it. That’s a view from another time.

I had a conversation on this with the Older Boy’s Girlfriend, who had just seen Gone With The Wind for the first time. She was shocked and horrified by the scene where Rhett carries Scarlet up the steps to her room, and outright called it Rape. It was jarring, but she was right - that’s what we’d call it these days, even though the author undoubtedly saw it VERY differently.

It’s a difficult thing to know what one should think about things like this. So much of the past, so many of our ancestors lived their lives according to the mores of the time they lived in, doing things that today we find horrifying. Judging them solely as people of their times isn’t enough, but neither is judging them solely by our own standards.

201
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:35:40pm

re: #196 Nyet

Yep, and the there would have been a massive number of deaths that have been averted.

Not to mention, the nation would still be unstable now.

202
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:37:20pm

re: #187 Nyet

And the bros are in force in the comment section:

There are a lot of people having the vapors about anyone on “The List” that was released by the Clinton campaign last week.

And of course the mention of Henry Kissinger and John Negroponte really caused a severe allergic reaction. Hives!

I am still looking for proof of all the “gushing” Hillary must have done when it was hinted by mystery Clinton insiders she was seeking out Henry. Negroponte’s baggage was added to Clinton’s in the baggage storage area.

Proof she is as I have read…more Nixon than Nixon and Nixon is left of Clinton.

All I know is, I need to restudy history and basic politics. It must have all changed sometime in the last year-and-a-half.

203
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:39:33pm

re: #200 Blind Frog Belly White

And we’ve already had conversations about the famous Sailor Kiss photo here. It’s sexual assault, but the photo is still considered iconic. (To be clear, I think it shouldn’t be.)

204
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:40:29pm

I’ve looked at the boat building pix on Josh Marshall’s twitter header.

Here is the whole story.

Very cool.

205
fern01  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:42:46pm

re: #48 The Vicious Babushka

AND AGAIN…

[Embedded content]

With fair winds, a little luck and the great foot in mouth skills of Donald Trump, the GOP will be the minority party in Congress and will not be given the time of day to say anything.

They 100% guarantee won’t be the Senate majority so the House can fiddle for another 4 years while President Clinton gets stuff done.

206
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:44:18pm
207
stpaulbear  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:44:36pm

Because it’s always in fashion to hate Microsoft, MS made an update to Outlook at the end of last week, and it managed to take out official email service for a good chunk, if not all, of Minnesota government today. Yay MS.

208
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:48:17pm

re: #207 stpaulbear

MS is getting sloppier with just about everything. Not sure the current CEO is competent.

Will never go to Apple.

209
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:50:33pm

re: #200 Blind Frog Belly White

The problem is that we have wisely narrowed the definition of consent with the concomitant broadening of the definition of rape, while holding onto the the understandings that are true of those who were rapists under the old definition. That is, ‘rape is about power, not sex’; ‘those who commit rape will tend to do it again and again’.

But for those of us of the Boomer generation and earlier, we were raised with a different idea of consent, because women were supposed to be reluctant, because if they weren’t, they were branded as sluts. So if a woman wanted to have sex, she had to walk the fine line between eagerness which could get her a reputation as ‘easy’ and reluctance which would discourage the man. For men, it was about knowing what was a show of reluctance and what really meant “No.”

I’m reminded of the shitstorm that the GoT showrunners experienced over the scene in the Sept of Baelor, between Jaime and Cersei. A majority of the viewers saw it as rape, because she was clearly objecting and saying ‘No, stop!’, while the showrunners hadn’t seen that because she eventually got into it. That’s a view from another time.

I had a conversation on this with the Older Boy’s Girlfriend, who had just seen Gone With The Wind for the first time. She was shocked and horrified by the scene where Rhett carries Scarlet up the steps to her room, and outright called it Rape. It was jarring, but she was right - that’s what we’d call it these days, even though the author undoubtedly saw it VERY differently.

It’s a difficult thing to know what one should think about things like this. So much of the past, so many of our ancestors lived their lives according to the mores of the time they lived in, doing things that today we find horrifying. Judging them solely as people of their times isn’t enough, but neither is judging them solely by our own standards.

I am a boomer and it was either the Catholic nuns or all the female cousins I spent a lot of time playing (no…not that playing) with in my youth where I learned or was influenced in mysterious ways in what you call the modern rape definition.

I was always “dumb” enough to make things clear from all sides.

Of course, that also led to some of my male friends to wonder about me and how much a man I was really but I never let it bother me. I knew what I thought and I lived with myself. There is one person you have to be true to first.

210
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:53:37pm
211
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:54:19pm

re: #209 ObserverArt

I am a boomer and it was either the Catholic nuns or all the female cousins I spent a lot of time playing (no…not that playing) with in my youth where I learned or was influenced in mysterious ways in what you call the modern rape definition.

I was always “dumb” enough to make things clear from all sides.

Of course, that also led to some of my male friends to wonder about me and how much a man I was really but I never let it bother me. I knew what I thought and I lived with myself. There is one person you have to be true to first.

And I was fortunate enough to be late enough in the Boom that it had become okay for at least a subset of college-age women to be open about liking sex without being branded sluts. But the difference between the late 70s vs the mid 60s was profound.

212
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:54:37pm

re: #210 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

If it’s a challenge, it’s not her fault. It’s because so many people left and right have a narrative about her that they don’t want to question.

213
lawhawk  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:54:51pm
214
Interesting Times  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:54:56pm

re: #210 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yeah. Right. She’s cold and robotic except when she dares show a facial expression in which case she totes has epilepsy and is unfit to serve -_-

215
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:55:47pm

re: #214 Interesting Times

Yeah. Right. She’s cold and robotic except when she dares show a facial expression in which case she totes has epilepsy and is unfit to serve -_-

And placing her hand over her heart is just faking empathy.

216
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:56:40pm

re: #214 Interesting Times

Yeah. Right. She’s cold and robotic except when she dares show a facial expression in which case she totes has epilepsy and is unfit to serve -_-

She can’t win with so many people. It really is more a reflection of them than her.

217
Jay C  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:58:45pm

re: #215 Backwoods_Sleuth

And placing her hand over her heart is just faking empathy.

Or evidence of concealed cardiac problems…

218
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:58:56pm

Please tell me that the Giuliani quote making the rounds about radical Islamist attacks and Obama isn’t real. I cannot believe Rudy though an asshole could be that stupid.

219
Frankie Five Angels  Aug 15, 2016 • 5:59:34pm

re: #215 Backwoods_Sleuth

And placing her hand over her heart is just faking empathy.

Or it’s trolling Sean Hannity.

220
Frankie Five Angels  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:00:07pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

Please tell me that the Giuliani quote about radical Islamist attacks and Obama isn’t real. I cannot believe Rudy though an asshole could be that stupid.

It is. He is.

221
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:00:09pm

Here is the Hardball segment from today mentioned earlier. Watch Malcom Nance…he alone is worth the time.

WARNING: Dana Loesch is involved. Though she stays fairly mild…for her.

Iframe

222
Belafon  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:00:38pm

re: #210 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

She’s winning too much. We must turn her into Gore or Kerry.

223
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:00:42pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

Please tell me that the Giuliani quote making the rounds about radical Islamist attacks and Obama isn’t real. I cannot believe Rudy though an asshole could be that stupid.

When Rudy said there were no islamic attacks in the eight years prior to Obama?
Yes, Rudy said that.

224
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:01:14pm

re: #220 Frankie Five Angels

It is. He is.

Sweet christ the guy’s an ass. Really? The guy was literally mayor of New York when the largest terrorist attack ever on our nation by Islamic terrorists happened.

225
lawhawk  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:01:35pm
226
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:01:41pm

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

When Rudy said there were no islamic attacks in the eight years prior to Obama?
Yes, Rudy said that.

I just wanted to check lest I be a victim of clickbait. Jesus Christ man.

227
FormerDirtDart  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:01:47pm

Trump Exposes Trump

228
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:02:23pm

re: #200 Blind Frog Belly White

The problem is that we have wisely narrowed the definition of consent with the concomitant broadening of the definition of rape, while holding onto the the understandings that are true of those who were rapists under the old definition. That is, ‘rape is about power, not sex’; ‘those who commit rape will tend to do it again and again’.

But for those of us of the Boomer generation and earlier, we were raised with a different idea of consent, because women were supposed to be reluctant, because if they weren’t, they were branded as sluts. So if a woman wanted to have sex, she had to walk the fine line between eagerness which could get her a reputation as ‘easy’ and reluctance which would discourage the man. For men, it was about knowing what was a show of reluctance and what really meant “No.”

I’m reminded of the shitstorm that the GoT showrunners experienced over the scene in the Sept of Baelor, between Jaime and Cersei. A majority of the viewers saw it as rape, because she was clearly objecting and saying ‘No, stop!’, while the showrunners hadn’t seen that because she eventually got into it. That’s a view from another time.

I had a conversation on this with the Older Boy’s Girlfriend, who had just seen Gone With The Wind for the first time. She was shocked and horrified by the scene where Rhett carries Scarlet up the steps to her room, and outright called it Rape. It was jarring, but she was right - that’s what we’d call it these days, even though the author undoubtedly saw it VERY differently.

It’s a difficult thing to know what one should think about things like this. So much of the past, so many of our ancestors lived their lives according to the mores of the time they lived in, doing things that today we find horrifying. Judging them solely as people of their times isn’t enough, but neither is judging them solely by our own standards.

There is this iconic photo==>

The woman’s head is forced backward, her spine is bent back, it’s clearly not a comfortable position. Today if a stranger grabbed a random woman and handled her like that it would definitely be a sexual assault. But the nurse in the photo doesn’t remember it as an assault.

229
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:02:46pm

re: #214 Interesting Times

Yeah. Right. She’s cold and robotic except when she dares show a facial expression in which case she totes has epilepsy and is unfit to serve -_-

Women of Hillary’s age who wanted to be taken seriously in professional settings had to learn how to evince what I’d call ‘Steely Competence’. They had to be unemotional, because “women are slaves to their emotions”. They had to be cautious in their fashion choices, because if they went too feminine they wouldn’t be taken seriously, but if they went too masculine they’d be called dykes. They had to be more hawkish because “women are too tenderhearted”. They had to put up with sexist jokes, because otherwise they’d be shunned by The People Who Matter in whatever their field is. They had to be the smartest person in the room while not being obvious about it, lest they show up The Boss’s Idiot Son.

I realize all these things are still true, but they were even more true then, and HRC has been more publicly subjected to this shit than anyone else I can think of. And I’ve read that Millennial women don’t ‘get’ her, and don’t have any understanding of the struggles of early Boomer professional women.

230
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:02:52pm

re: #225 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Oh shut the fuck up abut Saul fucking Alinsky already you old piece of shit, Bill. It’s not Alinsky. It’s the fact that you support and your viewers support the most fascistic mind ever to run for President. Go ahead cry about Alinsky and Rules for Radicals but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re a fascist enabler.

231
TK-421  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:03:16pm

Harry Reid Wants Donald Trump To Take The Naturalization Test

In a statement Monday morning, Reid called on Trump to take “the one test every immigrant has to pass to become a United States citizen.”

“He would almost certainly fail, given his general ignorance and weak grasp of basic facts about American history, principles and functioning of our government,” Reid said. “The fact is, Donald Trump is nothing more than a spoiled, unpatriotic drain on society who has earned nothing and helped no one.”

232
Frankie Five Angels  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:03:18pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

Please tell me that the Giuliani quote about radical Islamist attacks and Obama isn’t real. I cannot believe Rudy though an asshole could be that stupid.

233
Frankie Five Angels  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:04:22pm

re: #225 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Fox knows more about Saul Alinsky than Saul Alinksky ever knew about Saul Alinsky.

234
lawhawk  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:04:37pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

And that’s not actually the worst thing about that statement.

Rudy’s undercutting Trump’s line that helped him beat Jeb in the primaries - that GWB didn’t keep the nation safe.

235
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:04:44pm

re: #231 TK-421

Harry Reid Wants Donald Trump To Take The Naturalization Test

I’d love for this to happen. In fact, I’d like to see many a Republican aspirant take it given their views about immigrants.

236
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:04:55pm

re: #232 Frankie Five Angels

[Embedded content]

Thanks man.

237
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:06:21pm

So, after reading a little bit, especially the statements from the Generals and Military Leaders at the time, I have come to the conclusion that the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were wholly unnecessary.

So, I am tacking a little more to the left.

238
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:06:45pm

re: #145 makeitstop

I really hope they’ve got the guy. I read somewhere that there were tensions between Muslims and Hispanics in that neighborhood, and the police said that the shooter was someone with lots of experience with firearms due to a surveillance video that showed him calmly murdering the two men.

I’m afraid that if the shooter is still at large, he could attack again.

Missed this earlier. I hope so too.

I read the same about the “Muslims and Hispanics” tensions, but it ticked me off because the NY Daily News article I read identified them that way no less than three times. From my page:

Here’s what I want to know: If the murders had nothing to do with religion, then WHY are police & sources identifying only ONE group of people involved in the alleged feud by their religion? Why not describe them as “Bangladeshis and Hispanics” or “South Asians and Hispanics”—why keep referring to “Muslims” if religion has nothing to do with it??

239
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:06:53pm

Got a bunch of the usual neo confederates and white supremacists shrieking in the comment section at NPR on a story about how Vanderbuilt Uni is giving back a gift to the United Daughters of the Confederacy to be able to rename a dorm that currently is a confederate memorial.

The funny part for me is when they get going and I start using old Foghorn Leghorn quotes on the chicken fried idiots :D and none of them recognise it.

All of em, sharp as a bowling ball.

240
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:06:59pm

re: #237 Ziggy_TARDIS

What does that make the US?

241
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:07:57pm

re: #233 Frankie Five Angels

Fox knows more about Saul Alinsky than Saul Alinksky ever knew about Saul Alinsky.

Every time someone says “Rules for Radicals”, I hear “Ancren Riwle”. Damned medieval thing, again.

newadvent.org

242
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:08:27pm

re: #211 Blind Frog Belly White

And I was fortunate enough to be late enough in the Boom that it had become okay for at least a subset of college-age women to be open about liking sex without being branded sluts. But the difference between the late 70s vs the mid 60s was profound.

Just to be clear, I turned 13 in 1967. There was a lot going on in that period. What a time to come of age and awareness. To me it wasn’t just about a woman being able to express liking sex, it was important to really discuss it and know all feelings before any actions to me.

And you know, there was something really assuring and in a way freeing about that approach.

With that later! Got work to do, some drums to pound even though it is sitting…exercise will be involved.

And again, I speak about me. No one else.

243
TK-421  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:08:37pm

Giuliani does have a short memory. Like how he forgot how first responders couldn’t communicate with each other during the WTC bombing in the 90s. His faulty memory wouldn’t remember that his decision to not fund a proper communication apparatus killed hundreds of people that otherwise might have lived on 9/11.

244
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:08:45pm

re: #240 Nyet

A country clouded with hate and vengeance. What we did there was a War Crime.

245
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:09:48pm

re: #243 TK-421

Giuliani does have a short memory. Like how he forgot how first responders couldn’t communicate with each other during the WTC bombing in the 90s. His faulty memory wouldn’t remember that his decision to not fund a proper communication apparatus killed hundreds of people that otherwise might have lived on 9/11.

Rudy was always obsessed with his celebrity in a way that Bloomberg and DiBlasio aren’t.

246
lawhawk  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:10:03pm

re: #243 TK-421

Or that his decision to put the OEM offices in 7WTC almost had fatal consequences for him and other top staff of NYPD and FDNY.

247
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:10:10pm

re: #241 Decatur Deb

Every time someone says “Rules for Radicals”, I hear “Ancren Riwle”. Damned medieval thing, again.

newadvent.org

As a former English minor, I always think of Saul Bellow.

248
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:10:17pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

Please tell me that the Giuliani quote making the rounds about radical Islamist attacks and Obama isn’t real. I cannot believe Rudy though an asshole could be that stupid.

Real. Just saw video.

249
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:10:53pm

re: #237 Ziggy_TARDIS

So, after reading a little bit, especially the statements from the Generals and Military Leaders at the time, I have come to the conclusion that the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were wholly unnecessary.

So, I am tacking a little more to the left.

I’d suggest you read further. The first bomb was necessary to end the war without either an invasion (army plan) or a genocidal starvation blockade (navy plan). The second one had more to argue about but I believe it was valid as it proved the first bomb was not a one off device and hinted we could do it again and again - both the Japan and to the Soviets.

250
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:10:56pm

New Trutherism courtesy of the GOP: 9/11 never happened.

251
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:11:25pm

re: #224 HappyWarrior

Sweet christ the guy’s an ass. Really? The guy was literally mayor of New York when the largest terrorist attack ever on our nation by Islamic terrorists happened.

His whole shtick is based on 9/11. It was just pandering to the rubes.

Saw an interview with one of the attendees. “Obama is a Mooslim who hates America.”

252
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:12:28pm

re: #243 TK-421

Or putting the Emergency Response Center in in the WTC Complex (WTC 7, I think?)

Emergency Response Center should be away from targets, and away from areas that could be flooded by the Worse Case scenario for a Hurricane on NYC, a Category 4.

So way up in Upper Manhattan, or the Bronx.

253
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:12:32pm

re: #249 William Lewis

I’d suggest you read further. The first bomb was necessary to end the war without either an invasion (army plan) or a genocidal starvation blockade (navy plan). The second one had more to argue about but I believe it was valid as it proved the first bomb was not a one off device and hinted we could do it again and again - both the Japan and to the Soviets.

I really don’t envy Truman for the position he was in at all. I think an invasion would have been much worse not just for the American serviceman but also for the Japanese civilian.

254
lawhawk  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:12:43pm

Grace is a track star at my alma mater. She’s also the first UAlbany female student to be named to an Olympic team for any country (she’s representing Puerto Rico), and now she’s made it through to the next round in the 400m hurdles. Very cool!

255
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:12:51pm

re: #238 CuriousLurker

Missed this earlier. I hope so too.

I read the same about the “Muslims and Hispanics” tensions, but it ticked me off because the NY Daily News article I read identified them that way no less than three times. From my page:

Perhaps not so significant an editorial usage. If the killings were the result of tensions between a pigeon fanciers’ club and cat lovers, the victims would probably be identified in print as “the pigeon club”.

256
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:13:53pm

Trump is impivotable.

In other serious news:

257
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:14:34pm

re: #240 Nyet

What does that make the US?

We bombed civilian targets to achieve the political ends of making the population turn against the war. There’s a word for that, but because we won, we never use it in that context.

But I would add that whenever the topic of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki comes up, several things come to my mind:

1) Anyone who hadn’t seen the Trinity blast probably did not really grasp just how different the A-bomb was from every other bomb. You can’t see Truman’s decision in the light of the 7 decades that followed. You can only see it in terms of history to that point.

2) Japan did not surrender until after Nagasaki.

3) Okinawa.

258
ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:15:11pm

re: #231 TK-421

Harry Reid Wants Donald Trump To Take The Naturalization Test

Damn…too many good posts to ignore.

GIVE ‘EM HELL HARRY!

Drums? Yeah those…

And Rachel is looking deep into Ukraine money and Paul Manafort.

259
Nyet  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:16:08pm

re: #257 Blind Frog Belly White

To be sure, I don’t have an opinion on this and I haven’t looked into the issue for a long time anyway.

260
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:18:04pm

re: #259 Nyet

To be sure, I don’t have an opinion on this and I haven’t looked into the issue for a long time anyway.

I DO have an opinion on this, and it colors my reaction to everything else we call Terrorism. But I’m okay with things not being black and white.

261
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:18:57pm

Going around Facebook:

facebook.com

262
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:19:29pm

re: #261 freetoken

Going around Facebook:

facebook.com

Linky no work.

263
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:19:40pm

re: #257 Blind Frog Belly White

It should also be noted that World War II was a conflict in which all sides used indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations. This was an incredibly brutal war by modern standards.

264
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:21:29pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

It should also be noted that World War II was a conflict in which all sides used indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations. This was an incredibly brutal war by modern standards.

I hope we never see another like it again. I really think our attitudes about war in general are colored by the fact that war seldom ever enters our backyards. That’s why I always hated people calling the French “pussies.”

265
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:22:39pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

It should also be noted that World War II was a conflict in which all sides used indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations. This was an incredibly brutal war by modern standards.

It is astonishing to look at the number of people killed - at least 50,000,000 - and realize this all happened only 12 years before I was born. When White Supremacists yammer about the wonders of Western Civilization, I think about WWII.

266
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:22:55pm

Once you decide you are going to melt a city, it makes precious little moral difference whether your metal of choice is plutonium or thermite.

If you want to agonize, agonize over the decision to kill.

267
EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:24:12pm

re: #237 Ziggy_TARDIS

So, after reading a little bit, especially the statements from the Generals and Military Leaders at the time, I have come to the conclusion that the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki were wholly unnecessary.

So, I am tacking a little more to the left.

In hindsight, I think it is certain that nuclear weapons would have been used in war. There is simply no way that something like that could be developed and then never used in war.

Given that, a limited use of nukes at the tail end of world war II is better than most other scenarios, such as massive use of nukes at the start of a new world war.

268
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:24:44pm

re: #265 Blind Frog Belly White

It is astonishing to look at the number of people killed - at least 50,000,000 - and realize this all happened only 12 years before I was born. When White Supremacists yammer about the wonders of Western Civilization, I think about WWII.

That’s a good point. Personally, I always wonder about my family since my mom’s family had a lot of people still well their descendants still are in Europe at that time. But that’s a great point. White supremacists and even mainstream conservatives love to go on about the inherent moral superiority of Western Civilization and we had that war.

269
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:25:14pm

re: #262 HappyWarrior

Linky no work.

Sadly, the permanent link doesn’t seem to work. It’s not just LGF either, but the URL given by Facebook appears to be non-working.

270
EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:25:30pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

It should also be noted that World War II was a conflict in which all sides used indiscriminate bombing of civilian populations. This was an incredibly brutal war by modern standards.

World war II was total war by all the great powers. Nothing since then has been remotely comparable to it.

271
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:26:44pm
272
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:27:10pm

There was a meme the other day with Easy Company with the Nazi flag asking why we never “confront” evil then like we did then. And I was just struck by how naive that was. IT took Pearl Harbor to get us into WWII and quite honestly Roosevelt would have had a difficult time declaring war on Germany if Hitler hadn’t foolishly declared war on us. I’m glad we fought WWII. It was a worthy cause but I hope to God that we never have anything like it ever again.

273
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:27:15pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

I think it was brutal even by most standards before the war.

re: #264 HappyWarrior

France was drained after WWI. They lost a ghastly number of the young men, and I remember seeing a picture some memorial to those lost in war from a Military academy by Year of Graduation. One entire year was completely gone.

France had no fight left after WWI. I don’t blame them.

274
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:27:34pm

re: #271 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Fuck the racist fuckers.

275
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:27:56pm

re: #261 freetoken

Going around Facebook:

facebook.com

Looks like Facebook shut this one down, whatever it was.

276
A Cranky One  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:28:40pm

re: #52 jeffreyw

Cheesesteak anyone?

[Embedded content]

Hey, go make me a sammich!

Please, please, pretty please?

277
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:28:41pm

re: #273 Ziggy_TARDIS

I think it was brutal even by most standards before the war.

France was drained after WWI. They lost a ghastly number of the young men, and I remember seeing a picture some memorial to those lost in war from a Military academy by Year of Graduation. One entire year was completely gone.

France had no fight left after WWI. I don’t blame them.

There’s talk in WWI about whole villages being wiped of their men of a certain age. We have never had really anything comparable to that in our wars. Maybe the Civil War perhaps. I don’t judge the Europeans for being dovish in general. Americans who do are assholes in my book.

278
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:29:02pm

re: #272 HappyWarrior

Not to mention that we turned many people wanting to flee away.

I do wonder how the isolationists who pushed that policy reacted after the Holocaust. Were they shamed?

279
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:29:27pm

re: #264 HappyWarrior

I hope we never see another like it again. I really think our attitudes about war in general are colored by the fact that war seldom ever enters our backyards. That’s why I always hated people calling the French “pussies.”

Casual students of history look at the French and British in the run up to WWII and think their actions were so obviously weak and stupid, but they discount the deep psychological effect WWI and its 4 years of pointless slaughter had on them.

To us, it was a great adventure - “Lafayette, we are here!” To them, it was muddy hell with random death raining down with no purpose, killing the best and the brightest of a whole generation, with nothing to show for it. Vietnam is a wound in the American psyche, and we only lost 58,000. Britain lost 3/4 of a Million, and France well over a Million in WWI.

280
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:29:51pm

re: #277 HappyWarrior

They are/were doves because the last war to occur in most of it left the continent in ruins.

281
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:29:57pm

re: #275 Charles Johnson

It was a GIF of Drumpfskind doing some sort of speech, and all of a sudden a cat looks at the TV, arches its back in fear, then runs off.

Hardly offensive, unless Facebook is now doing Drumpfskind’s bidding.

282
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:30:02pm

re: #278 Ziggy_TARDIS

Not to mention that we turned many people wanting to flee away.

I do wonder how the isolationists who pushed that policy reacted after the Holocaust. Were they shamed?

I dunno.

283
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:30:11pm

One thing to bear in mind is that it took years, if not decades, for the true horror of nuclear weapons and their aftereffects to become accepted by most people. I mean fuck, look at how within a decade of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were developing nuclear torpedoes, nuclear depth charges, and fitting nukes to virtually ever bomb and missile developed. Nukes weren’t seen as the world-ending abominations we view them now, they were just viewed as a bigger and more powerful type of bomb. Hell, MacArthur wanted the White House to give him permission to use atomic bombs in order to bring the North Koreans to the negotiating table.

We discussed the Cuban Missile Crisis the other night and I think that was really the first time that Americans began to come to grips with just how horrific nuclear weapons really were.

284
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:30:58pm

re: #280 Ziggy_TARDIS

They are/were doves because the last war to occur in most of it left the continent in ruins.

Exactly and I just think back to the lead up to Iraq War days and how the French and Germans especially were crapped on by the right wingers in the media. We are so fucking lucky when it comes to war in this country.

285
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:31:48pm

re: #253 HappyWarrior

I really don’t envy Truman for the position he was in at all. I think an invasion would have been much worse not just for the American serviceman but also for the Japanese civilian.

It would have been difficult for Truman to make the decision NOT to use the bomb. Given the rudimentary knowledge of radiological effects, especially in the long term, it did not seem fundamentally different from the mass fire bombings that had been US policy in the Pacific War since the preceding March. As far as Truman and the leadership knew, the atomic bomb was just a more efficient means of achieving the same result. Casualties were in fact lower than in the Tokyo fire-bombing of March 9-10, 1945.

Six years of “total war” had brutalized the entire world.

286
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:31:56pm

re: #277 HappyWarrior

There’s talk in WWI about whole villages being wiped of their men of a certain age. We have never had really anything comparable to that in our wars. Maybe the Civil War perhaps. I don’t judge the Europeans for being dovish in general. Americans who do are assholes in my book.

One of the kids has recommended this 2014 BBC series on WWI. It is less about the war than about the lingering effects 100 years later. As in, should Iraq ever have existed?

The Long Shadow

h100.tv

287
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:32:01pm
288
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:32:03pm
289
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:32:26pm

re: #281 freetoken

It was a GIF of Drumpfskind doing some sort of speech, and all of a sudden a cat looks at the TV, arches its back in fear, then runs off.

Hardly offensive, unless Facebook is now doing Drumpfskind’s bidding.

this one?

290
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:32:38pm

re: #279 Blind Frog Belly White

Casual students of history look at the French and British in the run up to WWII and think their actions were so obviously weak and stupid, but they discount the deep psychological effect WWI and its 4 years of pointless slaughter had on them.

To us, it was a great adventure - “Lafayette, we are here!” To them, it was muddy hell with random death raining down with no purpose, killing the best and the brightest of a whole generation, with nothing to show for it. Vietnam is a wound in the American psyche, and we only lost 58,000. Britain lost 3/4 of a Million, and France well over a Million in WWI.

Great points. It’s very easy I think now to judge Chamberlain and his French equivalent (forget his name) for Munich now that we know what the Nazis did but it’s eager to see why they were easy to avoid another World War. You’re right. Our death numbers paled in comparison to theirs. And the French had much of their country destroyed. too.

291
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:32:53pm

re: #289 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yup.

292
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:33:25pm

re: #286 Decatur Deb

One of the kids has recommended this 2014 BBC series on WWI. It is less about the war than about the lingering effects 100 years later. As in, should Iraq ever have existed?

h100.tv

I’ll have to check that out. Sounds interesting.

293
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:33:51pm

re: #287 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

North Korea.

294
Jay C  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:34:00pm

re: #257 Blind Frog Belly White

We bombed civilian targets to achieve the political ends of making the population turn against the war. There’s a word for that, but because we won, we never use it in that context.

But I would add that whenever the topic of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki comes up, several things come to my mind:

1) Anyone who hadn’t seen the Trinity blast probably did not really grasp just how different the A-bomb was from every other bomb. You can’t see Truman’s decision in the light of the 7 decades that followed. You can only see it in terms of history to that point.

2) Japan did not surrender until after Nagasaki.

3) Okinawa.

One bit of alt-history I have always wondered about is the scenario which had been a serious alternative at the time: a “test bombing” - a well-announced detonation of an A-bomb in an un- or thinly-inhabited area ( I think outer Tokyo Bay was preferred). President Truman and his advisors mulled it over, but decided on the Hiroshima mission instead. I think the rationale was that if the device didn’t work (the Trinity test was the only successful A-test to date, and even the Manhattan Project scientists couldn’t 100% guarantee a repeat) the US would lose credibility over any future threats.
Not an argument I’d necessarily agree with, but that’s history for you….

295
EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:34:42pm

re: #283 Targetpractice

One thing to bear in mind is that it took years, if not decades, for the true horror of nuclear weapons and their aftereffects to become accepted by most people. I mean fuck, look at how within a decade of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were developing nuclear torpedoes, nuclear depth charges, and fitting nukes to virtually ever bomb and missile developed. Nukes weren’t seen as the world-ending abominations we view them now, they were just viewed as a bigger and more powerful type of bomb. Hell, MacArthur wanted the White House to give him permission to use atomic bombs in order to bring the North Koreans to the negotiating table.

We discussed the Cuban Missile Crisis the other night and I think that was really the first time that Americans began to come to grips with just how horrific nuclear weapons really were.

The cold war was basically insane, but I do appreciate Mutual Assured Destruction.

For the first time in history, there was a guarantee that the evil old bastards that are so good at starting major wars would be likely to personally perish as a result, or survive in a post-apocalyse hellscape that no rational person could prefer.

296
stpaulbear  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:34:49pm

re: #267 EPR-radar

In hindsight, I think it is certain that nuclear weapons would have been used in war. There is simply no way that something like that could be developed and then never used in war.

Given that, a limited use of nukes at the tail end of world war II is better than most other scenarios, such as massive use of nukes at the start of a new world war.

I recently watch The World At War series (I hadn’t seen it since it’s first run on TV), and was kind of surprised to hear that the men who made the decision to use nukes on Japan didn’t know anything about radiation poisoning. Maybe that’s a CYA excuse after the fact, but nukes were a brand new weapon at the time that we really knew very little about.

297
CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:34:53pm

re: #255 Decatur Deb

Perhaps not so significant an editorial usage. If the killings were the result of tensions between a pigeon fanciers’ club and cat lovers, the victims would probably be identified in print as “the pigeon club”.

Maybe so, but it leaves the somewhat vague impression that religion had something to do with the feuding. If it did, then how about we identify the groups as Muslims and Christians? If not, then why not leave it out altogether?

I’m not saying it was done on purpose, but there’s a bias there regardless, a (verbal) collective lumping together of a group that is actually extremely diverse—as much so as any other group of over a billion people. The article says, “the shooting may have been payback after a group of Muslims allegedly attacked some Hispanics a few weeks earlier.” Why did the Muslims allegedly attack the Hispanics? No further background is provided. It’s bound to make people think, “Hmm, yeah, those Muslims are always violently attacking people without provocation (according to the narrative), so no surprise that they attacked some Hispanics.”

298
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:34:58pm

Quite the turn of phrase in this tweet:

299
sagehen  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:36:08pm

re: #249 William Lewis

I’d suggest you read further. The first bomb was necessary to end the war without either an invasion (army plan) or a genocidal starvation blockade (navy plan). The second one had more to argue about but I believe it was valid as it proved the first bomb was not a one off device and hinted we could do it again and again - both the Japan and to the Soviets.

And there were a lot more lives at stake, in addition to would-be American invasion force and Japanese home island civilians. Ending the war quickly, with unconditional surrender, also meant the Japanese forces rampaging through China, Indonesia, Korea, etc stopped what they were doing and went home. That’s another probably 10,000 deaths PER DAY if the war had continued.

300
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:36:48pm

This is the best WWI miniseries I’ve seen. I really liked it since it had a variety of perspectives from people of all ages, ethnic backgrounds, and walks of life. Only wish they could have included a story on someone from one of the Slavic nations of the Austrian-Hungarian empire like a Croat, Czech, or whatever.
en.wikipedia.org

301
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:37:01pm

re: #298 Backwoods_Sleuth

More xenophobia from Hanson and her ilk.

Squat toilets have long been used in Asia and their presences say “Asian”.

This causes the Australia-is-for-Europeans folk some discomfort.

302
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:37:23pm

re: #295 EPR-radar

The cold war was basically insane, but I do appreciate Mutual Assured Destruction.

For the first time in history, there was a guarantee that the evil old bastards that are so good at starting major wars would be likely to personally perish as a result, or survive in a post-apocalyse hellscape that no rational person could prefer.

It’s well known that we could have restored the GNP within 20 years, with the proper breeding parameters.

303
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:38:20pm

re: #285 Shiplord Kirel

It would have been difficult for Truman to make the decision NOT to use the bomb. Given the rudimentary knowledge of radiological effects, especially in the long term, it did not seem fundamentally different from the mass fire bombings that had been US policy in the Pacific War since the preceding March. As far as Truman and the leadership knew, the atomic bomb was just a more efficient means of achieving the same result. Casualties were in fact lower than in the Tokyo fire-bombing of March 9-10, 1945.

Six years of “total war” had brutalized the entire world.

The historical record is that Truman was presented with three alternative proposals by his advisors.

The first was to send the Japanese a copy of the Trinity test film, to demonstrate the power and intensity of the new weapon that was developed. That was rejected on the grounds that the Japanese would simply dismiss the film as a hoax.

The second was to detonate one of the bombs on a small island off the mainland, giving the Japanese a live demonstration of the bomb’s power. That too was rejected, this time because the number of bombs then available was finite and the Japanese would probably be no more impressed than they would be with the film.

The final choice, the one that was chosen, was to drop one of the bombs on a target of strategic value, a nuclear version of the firebombings that had brought Japan to its knees. That was chosen, but the assumption was that a single bombing would be sufficient. The devastation and horror would be enough to shock the Japanese into accepting peaceful terms of surrender.

The reality is that, after Hiroshima, it was the Japanese leadership who refused to surrender and continued to lie to the people that the Emperor’s divine powers would protect them from further bombings. Nagasaki was the lesser of two evils, the greater evil being Operation Downfall, whose casualty estimates ranged in the millions of lives that would be lost.

304
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:38:52pm
305
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:39:30pm

During the Cold War, the Soviet Union and its agents liked to demonize the US as the “only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons in war,” as though Stalin would not have gleefully used them against the Germans if he had possessed them.

306
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:40:03pm

re: #305 Shiplord Kirel

During the Cold War, the Soviet Union and its agents liked to demonize the US as the “only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons in war,” as though Stalin would not have gleefully used them against the Germans if he had possessed them.

Correct.

307
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:40:47pm

Linked to Facebook, hope you can all see it.

308
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:42:05pm

re: #277 HappyWarrior

There’s talk in WWI about whole villages being wiped of their men of a certain age. We have never had really anything comparable to that in our wars. Maybe the Civil War perhaps. I don’t judge the Europeans for being dovish in general. Americans who do are assholes in my book.

I’ve mentioned this before but there was a French military academy that put up the names of their war dead.

It also lists Class of 1914, Class of 1915 & Class of 1916. It was not a good war.

309
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:42:06pm

re: #299 sagehen

And there were a lot more lives at stake, in addition to would-be American invasion force and Japanese home island civilians. Ending the war quickly, with unconditional surrender, also meant the Japanese forces rampaging through China, Indonesia, Korea, etc stopped what they were doing and went home. That’s another probably 10,000 deaths PER DAY if the war had continued.

There’s also the fact that the battle for Okinawa left 110,000 Japanese and Okinawan dead. Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined killed ~200,000. Taking the Home Islands would likely have been far bloodier.

310
EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:42:07pm

re: #305 Shiplord Kirel

During the Cold War, the Soviet Union and its agents liked to demonize the US as the “only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons in war,” as though Stalin would not have gleefully used them against the Germans if he had possessed them.

The first power to develop nuclear weapons in WWII would have immediately used them, so this is a stupid point even for ham-handed Soviet propaganda.

311
Sherlock Hound  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:42:31pm

re: #239 William Lewis

Got a bunch of the usual neo confederates and white supremacists shrieking in the comment section at NPR on a story about how Vanderbuilt Uni is giving back a gift to the United Daughters of the Confederacy to be able to rename a dorm that currently is a confederate memorial.

The funny part for me is when they get going and I start using old Foghorn Leghorn quotes on the chicken fried idiots :D and none of them recognise it.

All of em, sharp as a bowling ball.

Makes me want to walk up to the rope limit and beat up on the dog!

312
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:42:37pm

re: #307 BigPapa

That came up on my Facebook stream today too. It must be getting decent coverage.

Anyway, this is more evidence of the change in our society, the change that drives the angst that animates the tea-partying Drumfpskindanhangers.

313
A Cranky One  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:43:44pm

re: #296 stpaulbear

I recently watch The World At War series (I hadn’t seen it since it’s first run on TV), and was kind of surprised to hear that the men who made the decision to use nukes on Japan didn’t know anything about radiation poisoning. Maybe that’s a CYA excuse after the fact, but nukes were a brand new weapon at the time that we really knew very little about.

In a June 27, 1951, memorandum to high DOD officials, Dr. Richard Meiling, the chair of the secretary of defense’s top medical advisory group, the Armed Forces Medical Policy Council, addressed the question of “Military Medical Problems” associated with bomb tests.[4] The memorandum made clear that troops should be placed at bomb tests not so much to examine risk as to demonstrate relative safety.

“Fear of radiation,” Dr. Meiling’s memorandum began, “is almost universal among the uninitiated and unless it is overcome in the military forces it could present a most serious problem if atomic weapons are used.” In fact, “t has been proven repeatedly that persistent ionizing radiation following air bursts does not occur, hence the fear that it presents a dangerous hazard to personnel is groundless.” Dr. Meiling urged that “positive action be taken at the earliest opportunity to demonstrate this fact in a practical manner.”[5]


Dr. Meiling’s proposal to put troops at the bomb tests in order to allay their fears may well have been an echo of what the military already had in mind. The Army’s 1950 “Atomic Energy Indoctrination” pamphlet, a primer for soldiers, showed that the military was concerned that misperception of the effect of an air burst could be damaging in combat. “[L]ingering radioactivity will be virtually nonexistent in the case of the normal air burst,”[7] it reassured the soldiers. The greater danger, it told them, was the probability that “an unreasoning fear of lingering radioactivity” would take “an unnecessary toll in American lives.”[8]

Bioethics archive

314
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:43:54pm

re: #308 William Lewis

I’ve mentioned this before but there was a French military academy that put up the names of their war dead.

It also lists Class of 1914, Class of 1915 & Class of 1916. It was not a good war.

It was a terrible one. I actually wrote a short story from a British officer’s perspective for my creative writing class this spring.

315
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:46:25pm
316
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:46:50pm

re: #303 Targetpractice

The historical record is that Truman was presented with three alternative proposals by his advisors.

The first was to send the Japanese a copy of the Trinity test film, to demonstrate the power and intensity of the new weapon that was developed. That was rejected on the grounds that the Japanese would simply dismiss the film as a hoax.

The second was to detonate one of the bombs on a small island off the mainland, giving the Japanese a live demonstration of the bomb’s power. That too was rejected, this time because the number of bombs then available was finite and the Japanese would probably be no more impressed than they would be with the film.

The final choice, the one that was chosen, was to drop one of the bombs on a target of strategic value, a nuclear version of the firebombings that had brought Japan to its knees. That was chosen, but the assumption was that a single bombing would be sufficient. The devastation and horror would be enough to shock the Japanese into accepting peaceful terms of surrender.

The reality is that, after Hiroshima, it was the Japanese leadership who refused to surrender and continued to lie to the people that the Emperor’s divine powers would protect them from further bombings. Nagasaki was the lesser of two evils, the greater evil being Operation Downfall, whose casualty estimates ranged in the millions of lives that would be lost.

I wouldn’t imply that Truman had no opportunity to call off the use of the bomb against a city but, as you indicate, the alternatives suggested were rejected. Given that some elements of the Japanese military would not accept the surrender even after two cities had been destroyed, the reasons for rejecting the alternatives appear sound.

317
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:49:27pm
318
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:49:55pm

re: #315 Charles Johnson

Note the syntax in their posted statements.

319
HappyWarrior  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:50:34pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What an idjit.

320
Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:52:21pm

re: #318 BigPapa

Note the syntax in their posted statements.

Was hoping for a Nigerian bureaucrat.

321
stpaulbear  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:52:47pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

SMOTI just discovers that this shit is real.

322
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:53:29pm

re: #308 William Lewis

That’s what I was thinking of!

323
Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:55:11pm

re: #314 HappyWarrior

It was a terrible one. I actually wrote a short story from a British officer’s perspective for my creative writing class this spring.

And for the short period (< 1 year) that US troops were in combat it was no great joy either. The Meuse-Argonne offense was Pershing trying to apply 1914 French infantry tactics (elan and the attack) against 1918 defenses (lots and lots of machine guns + gas) with the result being a lot of casualties.

And those battles are pretty much ignored in US military history. WW1 in general as well since our time in it was short and little damage was done in the US proper. My grandfather fought in that war, and never talked about it afterwards.

324
sagehen  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:56:25pm

re: #310 EPR-radar

The first power to develop nuclear weapons in WWII would have immediately used them, so this is a stupid point even for ham-handed Soviet propaganda.

I’ve also had to push back on various discussion boards where there’s always some commenter claiming it was racism that we used it on Japan and not on Germany. I have to remind them that the whole reason we even built it at all is because we were planning to use it in Berlin, but the war in Europe was won in May and the bomb wasn’t ready until July.

325
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:56:39pm

Stealing NSA code and releasing it is seriously shady. I cannot see any rational justification for this.

326
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:57:05pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I wonder how many articles, TV news stories and published references there have been to the nuclear football over the last 50 years? It must be in the thousands. Some former aides have written in their memoirs about carrying the football for various presidents. Yet, for all the world, the wingnuts seem to have absorbed none of it.
Breitbart also invited the inference that Biden had personally singled out the aide when he pointed back. The video shows, though, that he was waving vaguely in the direction of a large crowd.

327
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 15, 2016 • 6:58:53pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

How did he think this was handled? The Government has to be prepared in case of the unthinkable. Did he forget that the Vice President has had to replace the President 9 times in our history? Did he think the Pentagon wouldn’t have somebody with the VP at all times just in case?

328
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:00:39pm

re: #316 Shiplord Kirel

I wouldn’t imply that Truman had no opportunity to call off the use of the bomb against a city but, as you indicate, the alternatives suggested were rejected. Given that some elements of the Japanese military would not accept the surrender even after two cities had been destroyed, the reasons for rejecting the alternatives appear sound.

Truman could have rejected a nuclear strike on mainland Japan, but as noted, the alternative was sacrificing a million or more lives to take and hold Japan. Not to mention that the clock was against us, as the Soviets had agreed to initiate hostilities against the Japanese 2-3 months after hostilities ended in Europe. Stalin would never have agreed to a unified Japan if the Soviets had set a single boot on the mainland.

329
scottslemmons  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:01:00pm

Kevin from the new Ghostbusters movie is smarter than Jim Hoft.

330
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:07:59pm

Twitter is down. There goes Trump’s campaign.

331
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:08:25pm

re: #300 HappyWarrior

This is the best WWI miniseries I’ve seen. I really liked it since it had a variety of perspectives from people of all ages, ethnic backgrounds, and walks of life. Only wish they could have included a story on someone from one of the Slavic nations of the Austrian-Hungarian empire like a Croat, Czech, or whatever.
en.wikipedia.org

I’m a fan of Danger UXB

a peek at a small part of one aspect of the war and its devastating interaction with the civilian populace

332
BigPapa  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:09:59pm

re: #330 Ace-o-aces

Twitter is down. There goes Trump’s campaign.

NSA’s software tools hacked, Twitter goes down.

Crafty Hillary strikes again!

333
No Depression  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:11:12pm

re: #315 Charles Johnson

Not good at all.

Hacker claims to be selling stolen NSA spy tools

Apparently these spy tools were stolen in 2013, the year Edward Snowden did the NSA leak. Is it possible this might be related to that?

334
Belafon  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:12:21pm

re: #330 Ace-o-aces

Twitter is down. There goes Trump’s campaign.

I was wondering. I had to change my password and then I started getting messages about things being wrong. I was wondering if my browser was caching passwords in too many places.

Maybe Trumps campaign can take this opportunity to replace his Twitter app with Twitter2, which looks like Twitter, but the only real tweets on it are Trumps; all of the others are generated.

Edited.

335
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:15:51pm

re: #329 scottslemmons

Kevin from the new Ghostbusters movie is smarter than Jim Hoft.

The lint that accumulates in the filter of my clothes dryer is smarter than Jim Hoft.

336
Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:17:18pm

Twitter is done, meaning businesses will see a spike in their productivity.

337
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:18:21pm

re: #307 BigPapa

Excellent.

338
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:18:26pm

Getting this message on the Twitter status page:

August 16, 2016 1:49AM UTC [Investigating] Some users may be experiencing issues reaching twitter.com. Mobile apps and api are not affected. Team is investigating.

339
Belafon  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:18:35pm

re: #336 Targetpractice

Twitter is done, meaning businesses will see a spike in their productivity.

There’s LGF.

340
Ziggy_TARDIS  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:21:00pm

re: #323 Feline Fearless Leader

Argonne Forest may have been the single deadliest battle in US History.

341
Kragar  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:23:16pm

re: #340 Ziggy_TARDIS

It was.

342
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:32:16pm

And here we go!!! Forget who called this, but it was CALLED

343
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:32:59pm
344
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:33:36pm

re: #342 Stanley Sea

And here we go!!! Forget who called this, but it was CALLED

[Embedded content]

anyone sentient called this

345
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:36:22pm
346
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:37:40pm

re: #340 Ziggy_TARDIS

Argonne Forest may have been the single deadliest battle in US History.

Yes it was.

It’s funny how history touches us sometimes - the National Guard unit in my hometown, HHC 1st Bn 128th Infantry, 32nd Division had a bad habit in earlier times of being in very bloody places. It’s lineage starts with the 2nd Wisconsin which was part of the Iron Brigade, was at Meuse-Argonne in WWI & Buna Beach and Leyte in WWII. Thankfully it didn’t get sent anywhere while I was in it (out before the 2004 deployment).

347
FormerDirtDart  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:40:43pm

re: #331 dangerman

I’m a fan of Danger UXB

a peek at a small part of one aspect of the war and its devastating interaction with the civilian populace

Been ages since I watched that series.
Just added the 4-disc set to my Netflix queue

348
Patricia Kayden  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:42:47pm

re: #298 Backwoods_Sleuth

Quite the turn of phrase in this tweet:

[Embedded content]

There are millions of Asian immigrants in the U.S. and Canada. How come this “squat toilet” issue hasn’t come up here?

349
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:45:24pm

This is getting quite a bit of attention today (and it should):

Joseph Goebbels’ 105-year-old secretary: ‘No one believes me now, but I knew nothing’

[…]

While she admits she was at the heart of the Nazi propaganda machine, with her tasks including massaging downwards statistics about fallen soldiers, as well as exaggerating the number of rapes of German women by the Red Army, she describes it, somewhat bizarrely, as “just another job”.

A German Life, compiled from 30 hours of conversation with her, was recently released at the Munich film festival. It is the reason why she is willing to “politely answer” my questions. “It is important for me, when I watch the film, to recognise that mirror image in which I can understand everything I’ve done wrong,” she says. “But really, I didn’t do anything other than type in Goebbels’ office.”

Often, end-of-life statements such as these are suffused with a sense of guilt. But Pomsel is unrepentant. As she holds court, gesticulating wildly, with a broad grin on her face, it seems as if she even takes something restorative from her insistence that she simply acted the same way as most other Germans.

“Those people nowadays who say they would have stood up against the Nazis - I believe they are sincere in meaning that, but believe me, most of them wouldn’t have.” After the rise of the Nazi party, “the whole country was as if under a kind of a spell,” she insists. “I could open myself up to the accusations that I wasn’t interested in politics but the truth is, the idealism of youth might easily have led to you having your neck broken.”

[…]

350
No Depression  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:46:03pm

re: #343 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I did three searches for instances where “teleprompter” was spelled properly. Every single one was him quote tweeting one of his fans. So he can only spell it properly when he’s copy pasting people who actually know how to spell it. Sad!

351
freetoken  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:46:06pm

re: #348 Patricia Kayden

“squat toilet” is a dog whistle for “asian immigrant”.

352
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:52:11pm
353
Interesting Times  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:52:19pm

re: #351 freetoken

“squat toilet” is a dog whistle for “asian immigrant”.

Does Hanson also hate colorful unicorns?

This Unicorn Changed the Way I Poop - #SquattyPotty

354
dangerman  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:54:16pm

re: #347 FormerDirtDart

Been ages since I watched that series.
Just added the 4-disc set to my Netflix queue

that kind of intimate contact with the prolonged destructive power of war is only one reason why for the most part americans have no accurate idea….

355
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:56:31pm

re: #343 Charles Johnson

356
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:58:08pm

re: #355 Ace-o-aces

Athleticism? I bet Cuban could beat Trump in a ping pong game.

357
Kragar  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:58:10pm

re: #355 Ace-o-aces

FinanceTurd: Following 27, Followers 2 # of tweets: 0

358
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:59:05pm

Maybe not so tough on crime

359
Kragar  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:59:27pm
360
Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2016 • 7:59:36pm
361
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:04:55pm

re: #355 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Financeturd? lol

Is that real?

362
Kragar  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:05:14pm
363
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:05:42pm

This random Trump Tweet finder is great!

364
Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:06:37pm

re: #345 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hillary needs to hit back on this. Hard & now.

365
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:09:01pm

“Or whatever that was”…Really?!

366
Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:21:42pm

Jesus Christ. This was less than 3 years ago.

367
FormerDirtDart  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:23:19pm
368
Viscous Obama  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:30:32pm

I just realized the Grand Unifying Theory of Trumpiness hinges on insecure people not content with their self worth that they feel the need to artificially inflate it or bring down others. This is the Coal Roller of campaigns, expect it’s stuck in traffic on the railroad tracks as a 5,000 ton freight train barrels down the tracks.

369
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:33:47pm

re: #249 William Lewis

I’d suggest you read further. The first bomb was necessary to end the war without either an invasion (army plan) or a genocidal starvation blockade (navy plan). The second one had more to argue about but I believe it was valid as it proved the first bomb was not a one off device and hinted we could do it again and again - both the Japan and to the Soviets.

Not to be forgotten: The first bomb was a one off device, absolutely. That was a year and a half’s worth of material. They could have produced enough for a second one in maybe six months.

370
William Lewis  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:37:39pm

re: #369 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Not to be forgotten: The first bomb was a one off device, absolutely. That was a year and a half’s worth of material. They could have produced enough for a second one in maybe six months.

Which was why using the second one (no one else, not even the soviet espionage system, understood the materials constraints or that the two bombs used two different mechanisms with two different types of fissile materials at that point) was critical to maintain the illusion we had many more.

371
jaunte  Aug 15, 2016 • 8:45:19pm

you can’t read em it’s so much
you can’t read em there’s so much

372
Nyet  Aug 16, 2016 • 12:05:16am

re: #349 freetoken

Not sure why today, I think I saw it weeks or months ago. Anyway, I don’t see a reason not to believe her. Some Germans knew, some didn’t, and while Goebbels himself knew and took part, his secretary did not have to.

373
Nojay UK  Aug 16, 2016 • 3:29:35am

re: #369 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Not to be forgotten: The first bomb was a one off device, absolutely. That was a year and a half’s worth of material. They could have produced enough for a second one in maybe six months.

The situation with production of nuclear material was more complex than that.

The uranium bomb, Little Boy, dropped on Hiroshima was made from enriched uranium produced by several experimental techniques such as the calutron, gas diffusion and others all being developed during the Manhattan Project. This caused the designers some problems estimating the bomb’s performance as different parts of the core had differing enrichment levels. By the autumn of 1945 the gaseous diffusion line at Oak Ridge Tennessee was up and running although not at 100% levels and it could produce several kilogrammes of bomb-grade material each month. That line was the largest single building under one roof in the world at the time.

As for plutonium weapons like Fat Man dropped on Nagasaki (and the “Gadget” fired at Trinity) again it took time to get the production reactors built and operational but there was a complete weapons pit ready to go after Fat Man was dropped. It was actually being shipped out to Tinian Field via San Diego naval base when the war ended.

The US had three unused but ready-to-go nuclear weapons by the end of 1945, one Little Boy and two Fat Mans according to some references I’ve seen. By mid-1946 that had increased to about 20 or so. The Little Boy design was quickly retired since implosion was more efficient and safer to deploy and it worked with enriched uranium as well as Pu-239.

The really scary weapons production figure around that time wasn’t nuclear, it was aircraft. Boeing built three hundred B-29 bombers in the month of September 1945. That’s AFTER the war ended, it took time for them to stop building more aircraft of the sort that had firebombed much of Tokyo into smouldering rubble in March that year, killing as many as 200,000 people in the process. The European war aircrews flying B-17s were being retrained to do to the rest of Japan what had been done to Tokyo, Osaka, Yokohama and other cities by “conventional” bombing.

374
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 16, 2016 • 4:20:27am

re: #373 Nojay UK

The situation with production of nuclear material was more complex than that.

The uranium bomb, Little Boy, dropped on Hiroshima was made from enriched uranium produced by several experimental techniques such as the calutron, gas diffusion and others all being developed during the Manhattan Project. This caused the designers some problems estimating the bomb’s performance as different parts of the core had differing enrichment levels. By the autumn of 1945 the gaseous diffusion line at Oak Ridge Tennessee was up and running although not at 100% levels and it could produce several kilogrammes of bomb-grade material each month. That line was the largest single building under one roof in the world at the time.

As for plutonium weapons like Fat Man dropped on Nagasaki (and the “Gadget” fired at Trinity) again it took time to get the production reactors built and operational but there was a complete weapons pit ready to go after Fat Man was dropped. It was actually being shipped out to Tinian Field via San Diego naval base when the war ended.

The US had three unused but ready-to-go nuclear weapons by the end of 1945, one Little Boy and two Fat Mans according to some references I’ve seen. By mid-1946 that had increased to about 20 or so. The Little Boy design was quickly retired since implosion was more efficient and safer to deploy and it worked with enriched uranium as well as Pu-239.

The really scary weapons production figure around that time wasn’t nuclear, it was aircraft. Boeing built three hundred B-29 bombers in the month of September 1945. That’s AFTER the war ended, it took time for them to stop building more aircraft of the sort that had firebombed much of Tokyo into smouldering rubble in March that year, killing as many as 200,000 people in the process. The European war aircrews flying B-17s were being retrained to do to the rest of Japan what had been done to Tokyo, Osaka, Yokohama and other cities by “conventional” bombing.

You said it, it took till the end of 1945 to get enough material for another Little Boy, like the first one, literally sorted atom by atom in the “racetracks”. I think it was about a year and a half after the end of the war before the gaseous diffusion plant was producing a steady stream of weapons-grade uranium.

The plutonium weapons were a different story—as you say, they had one ready to go, another one that could have been assembled in short order, and a couple a month after that. My point was, without them, the first bomb really would have been, as William Lewis said, a one-off stunt.


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