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163 comments

1
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:45:07am

That’s what I’ve been saying too. Hillary is too polite.

At this point no person of good conscience can vote for Trump.

2
freetoken  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:47:48am

re: #1 Nyet

At this point no person of good conscience can vote for Trump.

Drumpfksind will get somewhere between 40 and 70 million votes…

That’s a lot of people with no good conscience.

3
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:50:33am

re: #1 Nyet

They justify it by saying “I’m not voting for Trump, I’m voting against Hillary.”

Its the Bernie Sanders logic.

4
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:50:36am

re: #2 freetoken

That’s one of the most depressing aspects.

Then again, I was also depressed by all the people who voted for Bush and Palin.

5
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:51:18am

re: #4 Nyet

That’s one of the most depressing aspects.

Then again, I was also depressed by all the people who voted for Bush and Palin.

It’s really depressing to realize you’re related to some of them.

6
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:52:12am

re: #5 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Or that you are friends with or that you work with them or that you’ve served alongside them.

7
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:52:34am

Damn, I’ve missed Keith.

8
freetoken  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:53:01am

None of the Drumpfskind supporters on my Facebook wall seem to be changing their minds.

The anti-Librul, religious types in my Facebook who are not Drumpfskind supporters appear to have gone silent or pretending there is no election coming up.

In my albeit small group of “Friends” on Facebook, about half will probably vote. In numbers, I can’t guess which candidate will win, Drumpfskind or Clinton, among my Friends. I’d say less than one sixth of my Friends will actually vote for Clinton, given their posting history and what I know of them.

9
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:53:12am

And then of course you have the misogynist voting bloc who wouldn’t dare vote for Hillary because she is a woman.

10
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:54:01am

This new video pop-out feature is really neat.

11
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:54:31am

“All” is an exaggeration. I would say 98%.

12
Kragar  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:55:01am
13
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:55:59am

re: #11 Dr. Matt

“All” is an exaggeration. I would say 98%.

The rest have an IQ that is lesser than their age.

14
Charles Johnson  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:57:45am

Figured out what was causing the problem with embedded tweets - Twitter changed something without notice. Instead of just passing the tweet ID to the API, you now have to include the whole URL of the tweet. Now fixed.

15
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:58:09am

Hmmm….

“Our campaign readily admits that running against a candidate as controversial as Donald Trump means it is harder to be heard on what you aspire for the country’s future and it is incumbent on us to work harder to make sure voters hear that vision.”

Billion-dollar question: What the hell can they do about it that will actually work?

16
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:59:11am

Trump 236 pounds?
236 is his adjusted weight, using the Married, Weighing Jointly method.
(Donald + Melania) ÷ 2

From a Raw Story comment. Heh

rawstory.com

17
Tigger2  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:59:38am

re: #15 Interesting Times

Hmmm….

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Billion-dollar question: What the hell can they do about it that will actually work?

Hit the net harder. ?

18
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 10:59:52am

Lucy keeps pretending to tee up that football for the media and they keep falling for it.

19
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:00:21am

re: #18 jaunte

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Lucy keeps pretending to tee up that football for the media and they keep falling for it.

He also has a secret plan to end the war in Vietnam.

20
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:00:45am

re: #19 Timothy Watson

DAY ONE!

21
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:01:31am

re: #18 jaunte

They are the greatest plans ever, the ones that no man has ever seen before, right?

22
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:01:46am

Here are the baskets of Trump Supporters:

BASKET OF DEPLORABLES
BASKET OF DUMB MARKS WHO BELIEVE HIS BULLSHIT PROMISES
BASKET OF HILLARY HATERS

Keep in mind that Trumporrhoids can fit into more than one basket.

23
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:02:23am

re: #21 Nyet

They are the greatest plans ever, the ones that no man has ever seen before, right?

(And will never, ever see.)

24
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:03:13am

For Ziggy Tardis:

These are the actual rules for immigration or refuge in Canada, from the Canadian government:

cic.gc.ca

Note disability is not a bar for entry into Canada (else my epilepsy would have kept me out this year and last year, when I had to declare my medications at the border because they are controlled substances, and why I used them).

I don’t wish to step on your toes, but you are worrying too much. If you bought a ticket to Toronto or Regina today, or jumped in your car and drove to the border, no one would give a hoot about autism spectrum disorders. All they would care about (if you drove) if you had a license and a Canadian auto insurance card (which you can obtain from your US insurance company).

25
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:03:51am

re: #22 The Vicious Babushka

Here are the baskets of Trump Supporters:

BASKET OF DEPLORABLES
BASKET OF DUMB MARKS WHO BELIEVE HIS BULLSHIT PROMISES
BASKET OF HILLARY HATERS

Keep in mind that Trumporrhoids can fit into more than one basket.

Let me criticize Hillary here (OK, ironically, relax ;) ).
I think the word “Despicables” would have been harder to appropriate. Just my gut feeling, not being a native speaker and all.

26
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:04:22am

re: #1 Nyet

At this point no person of good conscience can vote for Trump.

Did you see this?

27
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:04:27am

kBPfDRQl+sgG+wY32RX2dRTv1a2xT4Y2gVKux3NV+S2of1qYZ+SyKQrCTKTRB0pObWb7VE58fy1pVEShGuDWxxRDpAaiBbWnW9t4DGO3W/In4heHcdQr+0vkv1mrMHZN478AesVbIv6bhalgh/eAXGFSQwta/MIj1RLQmwelyxd4yq6ACM1wJk68Xud0ilw+hHNelS6tmTwCcD8VLNhIpsT/xlaRiniYkY201eMlx/kHb+y751as6zcGwWh0c1Z+eYPRT9OFX8EwTyaT6dONkA==

28
allegro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:05:19am

re: #25 Nyet

Let me criticize Hillary here (OK, ironically, relax ;) ).
I think the word “Despicables” would have been harder to appropriate. Just my gut feeling, not being a native speaker and all.

That would instantly call to mind Despicable Me, a guy who turned out to be a lovable good guy, and a bunch of cute, funny minions.

29
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:05:23am

re: #24 Anymouse

For Ziggy Tardis:

These are the actual rules for immigration or refuge in Canada, from the Canadian government:

cic.gc.ca

Note disability is not a bar for entry into Canada (else my epilepsy would have kept me out this year and last year, when I had to declare my medications at the border because they are controlled substances, and why I used them).

I don’t wish to step on your toes, but you are worrying too much. If you bought a ticket to Toronto or Regina today, or jumped in your car and drove to the border, no one would give a hoot about autism spectrum disorders. All they would care about (if you drove) if you had a license and a Canadian auto insurance card (which you can obtain from your US insurance company).

Oh and don’t have any guns in your car. They frown on gun having.

30
Teukka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:05:53am

In other news, I found the music in the teaser trailer for Marvel’s “Doctor Strange”. Groups name is Hi-Finesse, track name is “Catalytic”.
Oh, and enjoy…

Doctor Strange - Trailer #1 Music (Hi-Finesse - Catalytic) HQ

31
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:00am

re: #15 Interesting Times

Hmmm….

Billion-dollar question: What the hell can they do about it that will actually work?

I don’t know if will do any good, but I’d sure like to see the Clinton campaign rake the NYT over the coals for its MBF reporting, especially that recent nonsense from their public editor.

32
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:29am

re: #25 Nyet

Let me criticize Hillary here (OK, ironically, relax ;) ).
I think the word “Despicables” would have been harder to appropriate. Just my gut feeling, not being a native speaker and all.

It would have made everyone using it sound like Daffy Duck.

33
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:31am

re: #26 Interesting Times

I hope he has. That is scary.

34
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:35am

re: #26 Interesting Times

Not this one, but I’ve seen this mindset on the BernieBro deadender boards. Pure privilege (whatever kind of it).

35
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:51am

re: #26 Interesting Times

Let’s go with Mussolini, because the other guy is someone I don’t like. Sometimes you gotta blow stuff up, but he’s promising to make the trains run on time.

Who is this dingbat, and why should I pay attention to him?

36
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:06:52am

re: #28 allegro

That would instantly call to mind Despicable Me, a guy who turned out to be a lovable good guy, and a bunch of cute, funny minions.

D’oh! You’re right.

37
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:07:26am

re: #24 Anymouse

For Ziggy Tardis:

These are the actual rules for immigration or refuge in Canada, from the Canadian government:

cic.gc.ca

Note disability is not a bar for entry into Canada (else my epilepsy would have kept me out this year and last year, when I had to declare my medications at the border because they are controlled substances, and why I used them).

I don’t wish to step on your toes, but you are worrying too much. If you bought a ticket to Toronto or Regina today, or jumped in your car and drove to the border, no one would give a hoot about autism spectrum disorders. All they would care about (if you drove) if you had a license and a Canadian auto insurance card (which you can obtain from your US insurance company).

All the times I have driven into Canada they have never asked to see proof of insurance, or is that just because they already know it’s a requirement to have a Michigan driver’s licence?

38
Tigger2  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:07:49am
39
Kragar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:08:34am
40
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:08:39am

re: #26 Interesting Times

It would be interesting if this kind of depraved indifference to consequences showed up in any reporting on Hitler and the Nazis in Weimar Germany.

Edit: Especially in the German press.

41
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:08:51am

You guys will have to forgive me for not insisting this is a fact to my likely Trump voting Mom in law who has a heart of gold and just does not comprehend the bigger picture. There is a reason I detest the broad brush. That would be the salient example today.

42
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:09:39am

re: #35 Anymouse

Let’s go with Mussolini, because the other guy is someone I don’t like. Sometimes you gotta blow stuff up, but he’s promising to make the trains run on time.

Who is this dingbat, and why should I pay attention to him?

Because he’s described as a Politics reporter, 42, Washington, D.C. (granted, the term “reporter” might be loosely used, but I can’t help but cringe at how many of his colleagues could hold the same view and color their coverage accordingly)

43
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:11:03am

re: #29 The Vicious Babushka

Oh and don’t have any guns in your car. They frown on gun having.

Crossing the very lonely border crossing between Plentywood, Montana, and Regway, Saskatchewan, the only trouble I got entering Canada was my registration plate on my car (87). Every time I cross the border I get someone who thinks my car is a stolen vehicle.

I get trouble over guns coming into Montana. “Are you carrying guns?” (Are you kidding, smuggle guns from Saskatchewan to Montana in a Smart?) Every time I’ve entered the USA in the last several years (Montana twice, Michigan several times) I have been stopped and searched for guns, like Canada is some terrible arms market for al-Qaeda.

44
Tigger2  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:11:20am

re: #26 Interesting Times

Did you see this?

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

45
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:11:21am

re: #40 EPR-radar

It would be interesting if this kind of depraved indifference to consequences showed up in any reporting on Hitler and the Nazis in Weimar Germany.

From the stuff I have read in the American press, it did.

46
Mike Lamb  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:12:02am

re: #18 jaunte

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Lucy keeps pretending to tee up that football for the media and they keep falling for it.

Anyone see the Simpsons episode where Ralph’s great idea was to ask Lisa what to do; Lisa comes up with the specific plan; and then everyone gives Ralph credit for asking Lisa? That’s Trump’s approach (and his supporters’ reaction) in a nut shell.

47
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:13:35am

re: #15 Interesting Times

Hmmm….

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Billion-dollar question: What the hell can they do about it that will actually work?

Shoot somebody in Times Square?

The media is 100% in Trump’s pocket now, and there’s nothing she can do about it.

48
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:14:24am

re: #41 Great White Snark

You guys will have to forgive me for not insisting this is a fact to my likely Trump voting Mom in law who has a heart of gold and just does not comprehend the bigger picture. There is a reason I detest the broad brush. That would be the salient example today.

A vote for Trump is a vote for evil. That is a fact. It is also true that some few will vote for Trump without having evil as their motive, but that intent does not magically change the vote from evil to good (or even to acceptable).

49
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:14:25am

Bill Scher:

“…Democrats have been the party of civil rights ever since the 1964 Civil Rights Act scrambled partisan affiliations. Yet no Democrat has won the presidency without, in some fashion, bowing to racial grievances by whites. If Hillary Clinton does so for the first time, it will confirm a new kind of election math can work for the Democrats and forever change how American elections are won and lost.”
politico.com

50
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:14:43am

re: #37 The Vicious Babushka

All the times I have driven into Canada they have never asked to see proof of insurance, or is that just because they already know it’s a requirement to have a Michigan driver’s licence?

Canada knows insurance is required in every state.

However, Canadian insurance cards require different information on them than US cards do. Canadian law says you must have a card which complies with Canadian law.

If you have US insurance, you can request a Canadian card free from your insurance company that complies with Canadian laws.

(The first time I did that in Nebraska I caused a number of agents to scratch their heads and make a bunch of telephone calls. That said, they issued the card.)

For Mexico, American insurance is not valid. You must buy Mexican insurance to comply with Mexico’s laws. (Border posts have several insurance agents that will sell single day insurance, or what ever length you require for a trip to Mexico.)

51
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:15:24am

re: #40 EPR-radar

It would be interesting if this kind of depraved indifference to consequences showed up in any reporting on Hitler and the Nazis in Weimar Germany.

Here’s a newspaper story about a Holocaust Museum Project:

On May 21, 1933, a story appeared on Page 20 of the Richmond Times-Dispatch warning readers not to fall for “propaganda” coming out of the Nazi-led German government.

The story by Virginius Dabney quoted at great length from letters and previously published news reports describing how Adolf Hitler had restored order through discipline, how “political murders … have ceased entirely because Fascism has been triumphant,” and how war is “absolutely the last thing Hitler wants.”

[…]

The story by Dabney, who later would become editor of The Times-Dispatch, and countless other stories in newspapers across the country informed millions of readers in the 1930s and 1940s about what was happening in Germany after the Nazis rose to power.

Those reports reflect how Americans viewed Hitler’s regime. But historians wonder just how full a picture Americans had of the Nazis’ reign and the Holocaust.

In an effort to learn just what Americans knew and how they responded to the Nazis’ treatment of Jews, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington has created a project called “History Unfolded: U.S. Newspapers and the Holocaust.”

richmond.com

Holocaust Museum link:
newspapers.ushmm.org

52
Mike Lamb  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:15:39am

re: #26 Interesting Times

Did you see this?

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

That anecdote makes me sick. And it really boils down to him not having the access that he would like to have if Clinton were elected. Oh, and that he knows “too much”. Forget that the people with actual authority have labeled most of the “scandals” as nothingburgers…this person just knows it’s a big deal.

53
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:15:48am

re: #45 Timothy Watson

From the stuff I have read in the American press, it did.

In the NYT, no less. I should have specified German press in my #40.

54
Kragar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:18:03am
55
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:19:50am

“… During the 2004 election, Ohio had the longest lines to vote in the country, with five-hour waits in heavily Democratic cities like Cleveland and Columbus. A post-election report for the DNC estimated that 3 percent of Ohioans—174,000 people—left their polling places without voting, a larger number than George W. Bush’s 118,000 vote margin of victory in the Buckeye State. “

56
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:19:54am

re: #41 Great White Snark

You guys will have to forgive me for not insisting this is a fact to my likely Trump voting Mom in law who has a heart of gold and just does not comprehend the bigger picture. There is a reason I detest the broad brush. That would be the salient example today.

Do I think my grandfather is evil? No. I think he’s a man who’s seen a lot of change and been fed a lot of lies, such that now he’s not listening to objective evidence. I also think that at this point in his life, it’s hard for him to understand the life experience that other people have had and that it might be radically different from his - but that doesn’t make one better than the other.

That being said, his vote will still be a vote to take away rights, not just from me but from a wide group of Americans. A vote that won’t help this country move forward, whatever he thinks it’ll do. A vote toward destroying the planet his great-grandchildren have to live on.

That sucks. It’s incredibly depressing, because my grandfather is not the kind of man who gleefully embraces racism or sexism. Does he have underlying biases I don’t necessarily know about? Probably, most people do. But he’s not an out-and-proud member of the alt-right, so I’d put him in Hillary’s other basket of Trump supporter.

But in the end, if he still votes for Trump, well, Trump’s made it clear what he stands for.

57
Alephnaught  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:20:38am
58
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:21:19am

Here is the thing. Yes, calling people deplorable for voting for Trump is a part of rhetoric - it’s not formal logic or hard science. These people are not made of antimatter, they don’t have horns and they can, otherwise, even be our friends. Calling them deplorable doesn’t mean they’re not redeemable or incapable of anything good or that all ties should be cut with them.
It’s just characterizing them in relation to their one specific act that happens to be important.

A racist can have a heart of gold, that doesn’t make them less of a racist.

59
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:21:45am

All the worst people.

60
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:22:08am

re: #53 EPR-radar

In the NYT, no less.

First as tragedy, then as farce

And if the image is too hard to read:

“Several reliable, well-informed sources confirmed the idea that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded, and that he was merely using anti-Semitic propaganda as a bait to catch masses of followers and keep them aroused, enthusiastic, and in line for the time when his organization is perfected and sufficiently powerful to be employed effectively for political purposes.”

61
Mike Lamb  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:22:19am

re: #54 Kragar

Everyone eat up!

62
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:22:54am

re: #56 klys (maker of Silmarils)

re: #48 EPR-radar

A vote for Trump is a vote for evil. That is a fact. It is also true that some few will vote for Trump without having evil as their motive, but that intent does not magically change the vote from evil to good (or even to acceptable).

That would amount to a deplorable vote. Not a deplorable person.A distinction that has gained importance this morning.

63
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:23:16am

Donald Trump Wants Peter Thiel On The Supreme Court, Sources Say

huffingtonpost.com?

64
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:23:39am

re: #54 Kragar

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Did Chipotle cut him a check?

65
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:24:09am

re: #60 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

And if the image is too hard to read:

It’s like I’m reading a darthstar comment about Trump’s racism, except this is about Hitler.

66
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:24:19am

re: #59 jaunte

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

All the worst people.

The problem is is that there are a whole hell of a lot more of them than we ever thought there was.

67
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:24:27am

re: #54 Kragar

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

THE JUNGLE by Upton Sinclair (full text to read online)

68
Charles Johnson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:25:33am
69
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:25:47am

re: #60 Interesting Times

I’d like to see the Clinton campaign use this historical data in a direct attack on the same kind of whitewashing today’s media is doing for Trump.

70
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:25:58am

re: #64 Timothy Watson

Did Chipotle cut him a check?

KFC & Mickey D, since he’s done photo-ops for their product.

71
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:26:40am
72
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:27:02am

Ed Schultz seems concerned about… something.

73
jaunte  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:27:39am

re: #66 Skip Intro

The problem is is that there are a whole hell of a lot more of them than we ever thought there was.

74
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:28:19am

Donald Trump Wants to Nominate Aspiring Immortal Peter Thiel to the Supreme Court

Bloodthirsty billionaire Peter Thiel is telling his friends that Donald Trump promised to nominate him to the Supreme Court if he wins the presidency, the Huffington Post reports, citing a source close to Thiel. And, according to a source close to Trump, the real estate developer “deeply loves Peter Thiel.”

Isn’t this illegal?

75
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:28:37am

re: #72 A wild WITHAK appeared!

Ed is a corrupt nut.
The Limbaugh of the left.

76
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:28:57am
77
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:29:10am

I’ll just leave this here…

78
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:29:27am

re: #16 BeachDem

Trump 236 pounds?
236 is his adjusted weight, using the Married, Weighing Jointly method.
(Donald + Melania) ÷ 2

From a Raw Story comment. Heh

rawstory.com

Yeah, Trump is 236 lbs just like Rage Furby has an IQ of 130.

79
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:30:28am

re: #75 Nyet

Ed is a corrupt nut.
The Limbaugh of the left.

Ed use to be a Republican. He’s just returning to his roots.

80
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:31:47am

re: #79 Dr. Matt

Ed use to be a Republican. He’s just returning to his roots.

Question to be asked: has he been in this just for money all the time?

Because his song has changed so fast with the change of jobs.

81
petesh  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:33:42am

re: #74 Dr. Matt

Donald Trump Wants to Nominate Aspiring Immortal Peter Thiel to the Supreme Court

Isn’t this illegal?

Probably not, but it’s certainly entertaining: Trump bullshitted Thiel and Thiel boasts about it! Those two really belong together.

82
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:33:42am

re: #73 jaunte

In 2012, the white vote went for Romney 59/39. I don’t see how Trump does significantly better, since that would require some white Obama voters to be receptive to a message of white nationalism.

83
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:34:16am

As I said, the screamers (Weiner, Grayson, Schultz…) are to be avoided.

(And just to preempt this question: I don’t see Keith as a screamer, just … flamboyant ;).

84
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:34:56am

re: #82 EPR-radar

In 2012, the white vote went for Romney 59/39. I don’t see how Trump does significantly better, since that would require some white Obama voters to be receptive to a message of white nationalism.

The question (and worry) that I have is: Is there a significant amount of people that might vote for Trump who haven’t voted previously?

85
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:35:29am

re: #36 Nyet

D’oh! You’re right.

Plus, there seems to be some kind of controversy over which syllable of “despicable” is stressed. My impression is that “DES-picable” sounds incredibly pretentious, sort of like “a-KOO-min” instead of “ACK-yoo-min”. It doesn’t matter which is correct—I can’t bring myself to say “PAY-tent”, even though I know “PAT-ent” is wrong.

86
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:35:45am

re: #77 Interesting Times

Christ. The 0% coverage of the Trump scandal from Faux News is just a small part of the story here.

87
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:36:04am

re: #74 Dr. Matt

Donald Trump Wants to Nominate Aspiring Immortal Peter Thiel to the Supreme Court

Isn’t this illegal?

Nothing any Trump does is illegal. Even Trump’s illegal alien wife who got permanent status here based on criteria usually reserved for Nobel Prize winners never did anything illegal.

88
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:37:36am

re: #84 Timothy Watson

The question (and worry) that I have is: Is there a significant amount of people that might vote for Trump who haven’t voted previously?

If there is, the polls will most likely not catch this effect.

89
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:39:01am

Some perspective for those of you who may be freaking out about the polls: for the final 3 weeks of October 2012 Obama was never ahead of Romney by more than 1.5 points.

90
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:40:42am

re: #83 Nyet

As I said, the screamers (Weiner, Grayson, Schultz…) are to be avoided.

(And just to preempt this question: I don’t see Keith as a screamer, just … flamboyant ;).

The screamers are occasionally useful. Grayson’s characterization of the GOP health care plan from 2009 remains unsurpassed, seven years later.

1) Don’t get sick

2) If you do get sick, die quickly.

91
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:40:58am

re: #84 Timothy Watson

The question (and worry) that I have is: Is there a significant amount of people that might vote for Trump who haven’t voted previously?

Remember, his hard core of support comes from people who hate politicians and politics as usual. These people hate the GOP nearly as much as they hate the Democrats.

I think that will tell in the downticket outcomes.

And I am sure that a lot of people who are saying they support DT in the pre-election polls are going to have a good long think about it before they actually cast a vote for him.

92
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:41:33am

re: #90 EPR-radar

The screamers are occasionally useful. Grayson’s characterization of the GOP health care plan from 2009 remains unsurpassed, seven years later.

1) Don’t get sick

2) If you do get sick, die quickly.

Yes, Weiner provided some good cathartic experience too.
But we know the end result in both cases.

93
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:43:48am

It’s like there’s some correlation between “screaminess” and “phoniness”.

94
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:46:13am

re: #41 Great White Snark

You guys will have to forgive me for not insisting this is a fact to my likely Trump voting Mom in law who has a heart of gold and just does not comprehend the bigger picture. There is a reason I detest the broad brush. That would be the salient example today.

Which broad brush? Do you mean Mrs. Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” remark? Note she said “half.”

At this point, if a person is willing to support a fascist, that means they are willing to support a fascist. Is supporting a fascist deplorable?

I hate to rag on your mom, particularly since mine has never voted (but will in this election, against a fascist), but does she support racism? Is she wiling to stand against tearing down the I Amendment? Does she support actual literal Nazis?

This is an election where families will be likely strained or torn apart. Is family more important, or is electing a fascist.

Making your mother understand is simple: Tell her the following: “Donald Trump is a Nazi. He has neo-Nazis supporting him; he has neo-Nazis as campaign staff. Do you support Nazis?”

Screw this “alt-right” nonsense: call it what it is and don’t sugar coat it.

I hate to say it, but you may have to pick between your mother and Nazis.

95
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:47:30am

re: #94 Anymouse

Psst. It’s not his mom. It’s his mother-in-law.

We have avoided talking politics with mr. klys’s parents for pretty much this reason the entire election.

96
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:48:44am
While tanks and artillery have been Russia’s weapons of choice to project its power into neighboring Ukraine and Georgia, Mr. Putin has also mobilized faith to expand the country’s reach and influence. A fervent foe of homosexuality and any attempt to put individual rights above those of family, community or nation, the Russian Orthodox Church helps project Russia as the natural ally of all those who pine for a more secure, illiberal world free from the tradition-crushing rush of globalization, multiculturalism and women’s and gay rights.

nytimes.com

97
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:50:09am

re: #60 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

And if the image is too hard to read:

So, the New York Times has always waffled on fascism. Liberal media my liberal butt. The Times has never been liberal.

98
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:50:09am

re: #93 Nyet

Someone sent me an interesting manufacturing video from Russia. Starting with a big gold bar, a clamp and one heck of a planer.

Iframe

99
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:50:44am

re: #96 Nyet

But the New York Times is just fine promoting that sort of stuff in the US.

This is isn’t their first time saying fascism was being exaggerated (See the 1922 NYT story).

100
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:51:25am

re: #94 Anymouse

I hate to rag on your mom, particularly since mine has never voted (but will in this election, against a fascist), but does she support racism? Is she wiling to stand against tearing down the I Amendment? Does she support actual literal Nazis?

I just want to add that there are plenty of people who do not concern themselves too much with politics, either for lack of interest, inability to comprehend the issues and/or because they are simply too busy getting through everyday life to direct much active thought and attention to it.

These are the ones who are the most susceptible to whatever is being repeated over and over in the media, because that is what they will pick up on the radio on the way to the cleaner’s or on the TV set in the background while they are tidying up the kitchen.

101
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:51:44am

re: #99 Ziggy_TARDIS

But the New York Times is just fine promoting that sort of stuff in the US.

lolwut

102
Tigger2  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:51:52am
103
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:52:30am

re: #95 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Psst. It’s not his mom. It’s his mother-in-law.

We have avoided talking politics with mr. klys’s parents for pretty much this reason the entire election.

Okay, mother-in-law. Does she support a fascist? The rest does not matter. That is the question that needs to be put to her, fee-fees not withstanding.

I would have thrown my own mother under the bus and never talked to her again if she said she was going to sit this election out, because I care about my country and its citizens.

Trump is an extinction-level event for democracy.

104
Romantic Heretic  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:53:05am

re: #26 Interesting Times

As the ancient Chinese proverb puts it, “May you live in interesting times.”

105
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:53:27am

re: #103 Anymouse

I’ve already thrown my extended family under the bus here, so I agree.

106
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:53:43am

re: #101 Nyet

They are being soft on Trump.

107
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:54:38am

re: #103 Anymouse

I would have thrown my own mother under the bus and never talked to her again if she said she was going to sit this election out,

Think again.

108
gocart mozart  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:55:30am
109
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:55:48am

re: #103 Anymouse

Okay, mother-in-law. Does she support a fascist? The rest does not matter. That is the question that needs to be put to her, fee-fees not withstanding.

I would have thrown my own mother under the bus and never talked to her again if she said she was going to sit this election out, because I care about my country and its citizens.

Trump is an extinction-level event for democracy.

And this where we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because some of us don’t go for the uber-confrontational cut-you-out-of-our-lives-if-you-disagree approach. I don’t believe it actually wins any hearts and minds.

110
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:56:30am

re: #106 Ziggy_TARDIS

So you perceiving them as being soft on Trump equals them promoting “illiberal world free from the tradition-crushing rush of globalization, multiculturalism and women’s and gay rights”. You’re not quite BrianJ on the scale of stupid exaggeration, but close.

111
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:58:25am

re: #89 The Vicious Babushka

Some perspective for those of you who may be freaking out about the polls: for the final 3 weeks of October 2012 Obama was never ahead of Romney by more than 1.5 points.

Romney didn’t have the whole fucking media promoting him for free 24/7.

112
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:58:46am

re: #109 klys (maker of Silmarils)

vVI7cLEF21Kpy4LnsreJ7Y6Sm8xXVqQ9I/jKWgyptkgXBgjW3ILDk/0OnGmIJQA6I3rM6mz9nxLK37a2o8xw57+QPIGPy1PAY9iYFDN0NfBN6ruEhpMHXZ2eMqK0BSQUVtxnjJ0CG52WKE4OuA3sYixt0+OGM27I1fFab2BYRzQNLHVccNygCUXcxHFt7JgOQPVL9US8wiu8y0uZ5+au+IvsytZ9VQeG5PrkY2305vr3mQZX14WPDnVpjgjTll0LeRj142NSW8mGekf0feKXWw==

113
Belafon  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:58:52am

re: #49 jaunte

Bill Scher:

“…Democrats have been the party of civil rights ever since the 1964 Civil Rights Act scrambled partisan affiliations. Yet no Democrat has won the presidency without, in some fashion, bowing to racial grievances by whites. If Hillary Clinton does so for the first time, it will confirm a new kind of election math can work for the Democrats and forever change how American elections are won and lost.”

That’s what I hope for. This obviously wouldn’t be the last election where racists would have a say, they’ll have a major voice in 2018 unless Democrats show up to vote, ( and I suspect Clinton’s supreme court will be tested a lot between 2017 and 2020 regarding voting restrictions to keep states from seriously restricting minority votes) but it will end the influence of white supremacists on at least one party. The other party will have to decide what they want to do with them.

114
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 11:59:45am

re: #107 Nyet

Think again.

Nope. My mother never voted in her life, because her principles (think Bernie Bros or Jill Stein voters) would not permit her as a veteran to vote. She was always of the opinion that a military member or a veteran should not meddle in the civilian government, even to the point of voting.

For other elections I did not care much, even when she chided me for running for my village board seat (she really holds to military doctrine concerning civilian oversight of the military).

I would indeed have not had anything to do with her had she chosen to sit this election out. John McCain, Robert Dole, George W. Bush, those men were matters of political difference.

Trump is a Nazi.

If she chose to do nothing, I would have chosen to metaphorically thrown her under a bus.

Fortunately, my mother doesn’t want a Nazi for President. She registered to vote for her first time specifically to vote against fascism (and Mark Kirk).

115
Romantic Heretic  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:00:06pm

re: #43 Anymouse

Man, who needs to smuggle firearms into America? There’s a firearm for every man, woman and child already there.

116
gocart mozart  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:00:20pm

re: #60 Interesting Times

“Several reliable, well-informed sources confirmed the idea that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded, and that he was merely using anti-Semitic propaganda as a bait to catch masses of followers and keep them aroused, enthusiastic, and in line for the time when his organization is perfected and sufficiently powerful to be employed effectively for political purposes.”

How’d that Hitler pivot work out?

117
Tigger2  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:01:23pm
118
Belafon  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:01:58pm

re: #100 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I just want to add that there are plenty of people who do not concern themselves too much with politics, either for lack of interest, inability to comprehend the issues and/or because they are simply too busy getting through everyday life to direct much active thought and attention to it.

These are the ones who are the most susceptible to whatever is being repeated over and over in the media, because that is what they will pick up on the radio on the way to the cleaner’s or on the TV set in the background while they are tidying up the kitchen.

They’re the people who were horrified when MLK Jr got TV cameras to go into the south, showing on TV what was happening. Which, as we’ve discussed before, is why we need a functioning media, one that covers a story in proportion to its severity, not in relation to some notion of equivalence.

119
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:01:59pm

re: #115 Romantic Heretic

Man, who needs to smuggle firearms into America? There’s a firearm for every man, woman and child already there.

Especially Montana. Both times entering from Saskatchewan, American customs has torn my Smart car apart looking for guns.

120
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:02:26pm

re: #117 Tigger2

Wow Harry is really running out of fucks to give as he gets older.

121
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:03:53pm

Instagram

Talisson Glock competes in the men’s 200m individual medley at the #Paralympics. Follow @guardian_sport for more gold!

Photo: Simon Lodge/OIS/IOC

122
lizardofid  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:04:22pm

Later Lizards!

123
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:05:31pm

I wrote above how my grandfather is probably voting for Trump. It’s something that depresses me.

If I were to make a huge deal out of it and stop talking to them over it, it turns into a huge shitshow for the whole extended family. It’s not about the election anymore, it’s about how I’m disrespecting my grandparents. It turns them into the victims and they’ll get sympathy. It casts me as the “intolerant liberal” which really isn’t going to persuade them (or anyone else who hears that story) to consider what HRC is saying. It puts my mother in a really fucking shitty position - and given that my mom is trying her best to reason with them about this already, that’s not fair to her. (And telling my mom to cut off her parents is just a non-starter. Period.)

And it’d be hurting me. I’d lose that part of my family. I spent part of every summer up until I was 18 visiting with my grandparents. I still like to go back and go fishing with Grandpa when I can and I know there’s not many opportunities left because he’s in his 80s. They both are. I’ve lost one set of grandparents already. I really don’t want to waste the time I have left with this set.

This election is shit but I’ll be damned if I’m going to destroy my family over it.

124
Romantic Heretic  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:05:38pm

re: #54 Kragar

So, under Trump!™ the US can expect to experience a lot of food borne illness breakouts.

And with the CDC gone (because government can’t do anything right!!1!!) and the ACA gone (Communism!!1!!) those outbreaks will be Yuge!

Maybe Canada should build a wall.

125
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:07:23pm

re: #124 Romantic Heretic

Mexico will want to build a wall to keep the crap from spreading their way. You see - this is Trump’s plan all along /sarcasm

126
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:07:38pm

re: #112 Nyet

eW8W+N4DGdALUGEMHjLANxdtp3+fLAhgR6lg3uf8tFWjef7ZuevRFW2PAkDWg78ChXxEKM32BzL0y9NC3dRTQOpXNoIeKSFh8htZL/WPA7Dw77NCQ9SYmELc7cic+jgF1AuR1mK/uIMGwq2KHyYykdZvNw6qTzfcyMvQriNA8mdL+UdHZs4PXg+iXeFntfDgJbKEmiLTcBJpeiZLmgFsX8Ej5No6J45mWKaWnPcdievrZYjFKF6hew1Ww7/4h7RdbA/vYSLL3sxPEnxV+v+HmvN2EBGxIJHpZtPrJ+AbPTlbhwXnr38Z4jyAdo9CDsUmI8abBMeHtpYcwGU+9vkcFcV3RCtlAq6Wj+Py+H0eWZ6phLfqsKn/tkJyQrafvSo63Ci9Ng16Ahg=

127
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:09:09pm

re: #124 Romantic Heretic

128
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:09:10pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

A vote for Trump is a vote for evil. That is a fact. It is also true that some few will vote for Trump without having evil as their motive, but that intent does not magically change the vote from evil to good (or even to acceptable).

Yup. I don’t associate with evil people, even if they turn out to be my family. (Fortunately, the only Trump-supporting family member I have, my first cousin, has disavowed him and swung over to Mrs. Clinton - what got her was the Gold Star Family rant against Mr. Khan.)

re: #60 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

And if the image is too hard to read:

Perhaps someone ought to write an editorial to the Times, quoting their exact article. Then ask the editor if either he is just clueless or if the Times is a fascist propaganda outlet.

129
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:12:48pm

re: #125 lawhawk

Mexico will want to build a wall to keep the crap from spreading their way. You see - this is Trump’s plan all along /sarcasm

Mexico and Canada can split building a dome over us.

130
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:12:58pm

Why did Melania Trump disappear?

At this stage in the US presidential race, the candidates’ spouses should be everywhere, smiling themselves to exhaustion as they do their bit for the campaign.

But for the past two months Donald Trump’s wife Melania has all but vanished.

The last big appearance of the 46-year-old former model born in Slovenia was at the Republican National Convention in July in Cleveland.

She gave a major speech designed to put a more human face on her husband, but which flopped miserably as it emerged her address plagiarized remarks by Michelle Obama from 2008 at the Democratic National Convention.

She probably, maybe she isn’t allowed to have anything to say. You tell me. But a plenty of people have written that. She is extremely quiet, and it looks like she has nothing to say.

131
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:16:09pm

re: #123 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I wrote above how my grandfather is probably voting for Trump. It’s something that depresses me.

If I were to make a huge deal out of it and stop talking to them over it, it turns into a huge shitshow for the whole extended family. It’s not about the election anymore, it’s about how I’m disrespecting my grandparents. It turns them into the victims and they’ll get sympathy. It casts me as the “intolerant liberal” which really isn’t going to persuade them (or anyone else who hears that story) to consider what HRC is saying. It puts my mother in a really fucking shitty position - and given that my mom is trying her best to reason with them about this already, that’s not fair to her. (And telling my mom to cut off her parents is just a non-starter. Period.)

And it’d be hurting me. I’d lose that part of my family. I spent part of every summer up until I was 18 visiting with my grandparents. I still like to go back and go fishing with Grandpa when I can and I know there’s not many opportunities left because he’s in his 80s. They both are. I’ve lost one set of grandparents already. I really don’t want to waste the time I have left with this set.

This election is shit but I’ll be damned if I’m going to destroy my family over it.

I’m sorry you feel that way, I really do.

I do not cut fascist apologists slack simply because they are family members.

Representative Steve King wants me deported because my grandparents entered unlawfully (Slavs were excluded in the run up to the Nazi invasion of Poland). King has endorsed Trump.

Family does not trump democracy. Trump is an extinction level event for democracy. A family member supporting a fascist is a fascist. If I could not convert a family member from that, then they are no longer my family.

There is no one in my town now that will vote for Mr. Trump (at least as has publicly told me), because I called out his fascism for what it was. The people in my town are not related to me; they are almost all conservative Republicans, almost all of them are Christians, but they listened to the liberal atheist Clinton supporter telling them it did not matter what they thought of Mr. Trump, he is a fascist.

I am sorry, family fee-fees is not an excuse. I have long been estranged from my sister for far less than the destruction of our nation.

132
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:20:12pm

re: #128 Anymouse

Yup. I don’t associate with evil people, even if they turn out to be my family. (Fortunately, the only Trump-supporting family member I have, my first cousin, has disavowed him and swung over to Mrs. Clinton - what got her was the Gold Star Family rant against Mr. Khan.)

Perhaps someone ought to write an editorial to the Times, quoting their exact article. Then ask the editor if either he is just clueless or if the Times is a fascist propaganda outlet.

They’ve always thought they’re a lot smarter than they really are. Remember the editorial ridiculing Robert Goddard’s A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes because everybody knows rockets won’t work in a vacuum, because there’s nothing to push against.

133
Trumpia est omnis divisa in duo calathi(Sophist)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:21:20pm

This is what trump thinks “an excellent relationship with the Blacks” looks like.

134
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:21:37pm

re: #131 Anymouse

I’m sorry you feel that way.

Still not tearing up my family because some random commenter on the Internet thinks it’s the right thing to do. I explained why I disagree and how, in fact, it’s counter-productive if the goal is to actually change their minds. Nothing you wrote addresses that.

135
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:24:35pm

re: #22 The Vicious Babushka

Here are the baskets of Trump Supporters:

BASKET OF DEPLORABLES
BASKET OF DUMB MARKS WHO BELIEVE HIS BULLSHIT PROMISES
BASKET OF HILLARY HATERS

Keep in mind that Trumporrhoids can fit into more than one basket.

Buncha damn basket cases.

136
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:25:36pm

re: #134 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Still not tearing up my family because some random commenter on the Internet thinks it’s the right thing to do.

Now, now, you are not being reasonable…

137
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:28:25pm

I have a degree in journalism, I’ve worked in the business. It’s easy to want to go after reporters for their ridiculous soft handling of Trump but it’s a colossal mistake to blame a reporter for everything that appears in a news story bearing his or her byline.

You see, after a reporter completes a story, it will go through multiple editors before ever seeing print or broadcast. As a general rule, the larger the media outlet, the more layers of editors between the initial development of the story and the finished project.

For the most part, editors have free reign to change whatever aspects of the story they might want, even to the point of ordering the reporter to do a complete rewrite if they aren’t happy with the product. Changes editors make may go against the intent of the original reporter and though that reporter can appeal any decision, the power ultimately lies with the editors and if they are determined to make a change, the change will happen.

Then above all the editors you have the publisher (the TV equivalent would be a station manager or network executive). These are the people financially responsible for the media outlet and who hold the most sway regarding the public image of said outlet.

Even if a story gets through all the editors with only minor changes, a Publisher might kill it dead if it suits him or her to do so (for example, an unflattering piece on a company in which the Publisher holds a significant interest).

This is not SUPPOSED to happen, but it does happen pretty much every damned day in every newspaper or TV network or online outlet in America. One of the first things my journalism professor drilled into our heads is that there really is no such thing as unbiased media.

The worst part of it is, that through all the changes that occur between the editors and the publisher, the writer maintains the byline. So you end up with your name attached to something that is fundamentally different from what you originally intended and you can’t really do much about it.

It’s similar to what happens in the film industry where a writer develops a great script but then actors demand changes, the producers demand changes, the studio cuts the budget and the end product is nowhere what the original writer had conceived.

Also, usually reporters are not responsible for writing the headline that goes to a story. There’s a separate editorial group for that. As we know, headlines can play a big part in shaping perception of a story. It’s very easy to pair a headline that says one thing with a story that seemingly suggests the opposite and blur the lines between them.

Journalism can be a fierce, petty, egotistical business and it’s most controlled and influenced not by the people it serves, but the powerful and monied interests that keep the cameras rolling and the presses printing.

It has become more about making money than telling the truth. A lot of the interest in Trump reminds me of the Dennis Rodman phenomenon of the mid to late 1990s. The allure was that Rodman was so strange, so unconventional and so unpredictable you just wanted to follow him around all the time because you never knew what crazy shit might happen next. People were intrigued and “The Worm” got a lot of exposure as a result.

With Trump it’s the same, he’s walking train wreck, a veritable unending fountain of crazy shit. A lot of the people who read stories on Trump are not Trump supporters but rather people who continually tell themselves: “Oh my god, this fucker is crazy!”

But they’ll keep reading and they’ll keep watching because Trump is so unpredictable.

The important difference though is that Trump is not an athlete or a movie star or a web celebrity, he’s a major party candidate for President of the United States.

As such the expectations should be higher and the coverage should be less flattering and the media should hold him more accountable.

But they won’t because they can make more money showing train wrecks all day long than they can by actually showing integrity.

138
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:30:00pm

re: #134 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m sorry you feel that way.

Still not tearing up my family because some random commenter on the Internet thinks it’s the right thing to do. I explained why I disagree and how, in fact, it’s counter-productive if the goal is to actually change their minds. Nothing you wrote addresses that.

Yup, and I explained why fascism trumps family ties for me.

An alternative scenario might be the Civil War, where family members also were torn from each other. Southerners fought to keep slaves and Northerners fought to free them. Slavery trumped family ties.

My argument is fascism also trumps family ties.

As for the “random commentator” dig, an ad hominem attack does not change the veracity of my argument. A person supporting a fascist is a fascist. A person making apologetic arguments for that person is an apologist for fascism (well, I oppose fascism but my family are special snowflakes … well, they’re Muslims or Mexicans, they’re not my family.)

I am truly sorry you have chosen family over country … I don’t see a whole lot of difference between the GOP choosing party over country. Perhaps you can explain.

139
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:31:59pm

re: #138 Anymouse

Okay. I guess I support fascism then because I’m unwilling to cut off family members who might vote for Trump?

Wow.

140
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:35:09pm

re: #133 Trumpia est omnis divisa in duo calathi(Sophist)

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

This is what trump thinks “an excellent relationship with the Blacks” looks like.

Looks like she is being held hostage…

141
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:35:42pm

re: #139 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Okay. I guess I support fascism then because I’m unwilling to cut off family members who might vote for Trump?

Wow.

Yup. You are willing to apologise for people who are willing to concede Mexicans are rapists, Muslims should be banned, protesters should be beaten, &c.

If they are unwilling to see what is wrong with that stance, they are in Hillary Clinton’s basket of deplorables. Those are exactly the Trump supporters she was talking about.

Yes. You have a choice. You can choose to ignore the fascist supporters in your midst, you can choose to try to get them to see the light, or you can be a fascist apologist with an excuse why “your” fascists are special, but every other fascist grandmother and uncle and cousin is a “deplorable.”

After all, those fascists have families too.

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:37:38pm

143
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:38:52pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

?

144
wrenchwench  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:46:17pm

re: #137 Eclectic Cyborg

I have a degree in journalism, I’ve worked in the business. It’s easy to want to go after reporters for their ridiculous soft handling of Trump but it’s a colossal mistake to blame a reporter for everything that appears in a news story bearing his or her byline.

You see, after a reporter completes a story, it will go through multiple editors before ever seeing print or broadcast. As a general rule, the larger the media outlet, the more layers of editors between the initial development of the story and the finished project.

For the most part, editors have free reign rein to change whatever aspects of the story they might want, even to the point of ordering the reporter to do a complete rewrite if they aren’t happy with the product. […]

I’m a bike mechanic who thought about majoring in English or journalism, but ended up in Sociology. But I’ve been on a horse and taken the reins to take control. I’ve never reigned over a kingdom. I’ve been rained on; yesterday I only got a little wet.

No qualifications here, just a peeve, sorry.

145
TedStriker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:49:01pm

re: #138 Anymouse

Yup, and I explained why fascism trumps family ties for me.

An alternative scenario might be the Civil War, where family members also were torn from each other. Southerners fought to keep slaves and Northerners fought to free them. Slavery trumped family ties.

My argument is fascism also trumps family ties.

As for the “random commentator” dig, an ad hominem attack does not change the veracity of my argument. A person supporting a fascist is a fascist. A person making apologetic arguments for that person is an apologist for fascism (well, I oppose fascism but my family are special snowflakes … well, they’re Muslims or Mexicans, they’re not my family.)

I am truly sorry you have chosen family over country … I don’t see a whole lot of difference between the GOP choosing party over country. Perhaps you can explain.

For someone that claims to be a liberal, you’re sure sounding a lot like someone who isn’t in your post.

We must be vigilant, lest we become what we despise.

146
Eventual Carrion  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:06:08pm

re: #140 Backwoods_Sleuth

Looks like she is being held hostage…

Afraid of that thing on his head.

147
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:06:27pm

re: #111 Skip Intro

Romney didn’t have the whole fucking media promoting him for free 24/7.

I am still (guardedly) optimistic about Hillary, but there are too many petty and irrelevant things that can happen to her that could easily be blown up into a major crisis by the media, who just love themselves a big, dramatic game changer.

148
blueraven  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:14:30pm

re: #141 Anymouse

Yup. You are willing to apologise for people who are willing to concede Mexicans are rapists, Muslims should be banned, protesters should be beaten, &c.

If they are unwilling to see what is wrong with that stance, they are in Hillary Clinton’s basket of deplorables. Those are exactly the Trump supporters she was talking about.

Yes. You have a choice. You can choose to ignore the fascist supporters in your midst, you can choose to try to get them to see the light, or you can be a fascist apologist with an excuse why “your” fascists are special, but every other fascist grandmother and uncle and cousin is a “deplorable.”

After all, those fascists have families too.

Dead thread I know, but you are being outrageous.You don’t have to stop loving your family and friends because they have different views. Now, if Donald Trump actually begins to practice genocide, or jailing dissidents we can talk. For now, you sound quite harsh and very foolish.

Nobody here, including klys, is a fascist apologist. Jesus Christ.

149
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:24:13pm

re: #148 blueraven

Dead thread I know, but you are being outrageous.You don’t have to stop loving your family and friends because they have different views. Now, if Donald Trump actually begins to practice genocide, or jailing dissidents we can talk. For now, you sound quite harsh and very foolish.

Nobody here, including klys, is a fascist apologist. Jesus Christ.

^^YES, YES, YES^^

150
wrenchwench  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:24:28pm

There’s a family name in this county with 200 or 300 members. They say they aren’t all related. I was talking about that to a guy with a different last name, and he said, ‘They’re all related. I’m one of them. But about 100 years ago, one disputing cousin trespassed and another cousin shot him dead and the family split.’

Somebody needed to go under the bus, but maybe not everybody, and maybe not for 100 years.

I just delivered two repairs to a woman who married in to some of that family. She’s great.

151
No Country For Old Haters  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:28:17pm

re: #148 blueraven

Dead thread I know, but you are being outrageous.You don’t have to stop loving your family and friends because they have different views. Now, if Donald Trump actually begins to practice genocide, or jailing dissidents we can talk. For now, you sound quite harsh and very foolish.

Nobody here, including klys, is a fascist apologist. Jesus Christ.

He lost family to fascists, got triggered, and went temporarily nuts. It happens.

152
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:33:49pm

re: #151 No Country For Old Haters

He lost family to fascists, got triggered, and went temporarily nuts. It happens.

I lost family to actual freaking NAZIS.
I did not refuse to connect with my cousin when we finally managed to reconnect 10 years ago (and we’re both in our 60s now).
Pretty sure his Nazi grandfather is rolling in his grave knowing that almost all of us in the second generation are liberals.

OK…just typing that last sentence (and knowing how true it is) made me grin out loud.

:D

153
blueraven  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:38:38pm

re: #151 No Country For Old Haters

He lost family to fascists, got triggered, and went temporarily nuts. It happens.

Sorry about his family but I am not a big believer in triggers and bad behavior.
But if that is true and it was a temporary condition I think klys will see an apology then.

154
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 2:17:56pm

re: #141 Anymouse

Yup. You are willing to apologise for people who are willing to concede Mexicans are rapists, Muslims should be banned, protesters should be beaten, &c.

If they are unwilling to see what is wrong with that stance, they are in Hillary Clinton’s basket of deplorables. Those are exactly the Trump supporters she was talking about.

Yes. You have a choice. You can choose to ignore the fascist supporters in your midst, you can choose to try to get them to see the light, or you can be a fascist apologist with an excuse why “your” fascists are special, but every other fascist grandmother and uncle and cousin is a “deplorable.”

After all, those fascists have families too.

No, just no. Families can disagree and move on. Those whom i love just might make some terrible mistake, come to some awful conclusion about something. Blood is thicker than water, I’d not divorce my wife, cut off a son or daughter from contact over a freaking vote. November 9th we need room to do some healing.

155
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 2:19:26pm

re: #139 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Okay. I guess I support fascism then because I’m unwilling to cut off family members who might vote for Trump?

Wow.

I’m with you.

156
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 3:39:09pm

re: #114 Anymouse

Nope. My mother never voted in her life, because her principles (think Bernie Bros or Jill Stein voters) would not permit her as a veteran to vote. She was always of the opinion that a military member or a veteran should not meddle in the civilian government, even to the point of voting.
.

FWIW, I just do not understand that opinion.
Not at all.
And I say that as someone who is part of a family that is Air Force and even Army (Army goes back to Union side of the Civil War).
MrBWS is a solid Navy family.
He doesn’t get the not allowing military/veterans to vote, either.
Voting IS NOT MEDDLING.

Voting is the fucking RIGHT for every citizen, INCLUDING those who serve(d).

There is something seriously wrong with the logic that claims military/veterans are “meddling” if they dare to vote.

(ETA: This has been bothering me for a very long time and I just had to say something now.)

157
Ojoe  Sep 18, 2016 • 9:01:38am

In my 50 + years of observing politics I have never seen a politician hand her adversary such a powerful weapon as Hillary Clinton did when she damned 20% of the American people as “irredeemable” “deplorables”.
In that one remark she summarized the leftist contempt for Americans who stubbornly refuse to submit to leftist shibboleths, and she poured gasoline on the anger of half our population who are sick of being treated as enemies in their own nation.
And “Irredeemable” is even worse than deplorable, because as the leftists do not as a rule believe in either salvation or heaven or hell, just what do they think they are justified in doing to someone whom they believe is “irredeemable?”
Her remark reeks of death camps.

158
CuriousLurker  Sep 18, 2016 • 9:20:57am

re: #157 Ojoe

There hasn’t been so much as a peep from you about any the horrible, bigoted things Von ClownStick has said or any of the numerous associations he & his campaign have displayed with white supremacists & neo-Nazi types, yet HRC is the one whose remark “reeks of death camps,” huh? What a pathetic load of crap. When you stop with the selective wingnut moral OUTRAGE and quit your trollish slithering in on dead threads to make idiotic comments, then you might be taken seriously. Till then, piss off.

159
The Ghost of a Flea  Sep 18, 2016 • 9:39:09am

re: #157 Ojoe

160
MsJ  Sep 18, 2016 • 9:54:19am

re: #158 CuriousLurker

I guess we know which basket he thinks he falls into. Being deplorable in one’s own mind must really suck.

161
Anymouse  Sep 18, 2016 • 9:55:10am

re: #157 Ojoe

In my 50 + years of observing politics I have never seen a politician hand her adversary such a powerful weapon as Hillary Clinton did when she damned 20% of the American people as “irredeemable” “deplorables”.
In that one remark she summarized the leftist contempt for Americans who stubbornly refuse to submit to leftist shibboleths, and she poured gasoline on the anger of half our population who are sick of being treated as enemies in their own nation.
And “Irredeemable” is even worse than deplorable, because as the leftists do not as a rule believe in either salvation or heaven or hell, just what do they think they are justified in doing to someone whom they believe is “irredeemable?”
Her remark reeks of death camps.

Enemies in their own nation? You are referring to the conservative position on liberals here; I think you’re confused about who is calling who enemies. I have been putting up with that all my adult life, since Ronald Reagan ran for president, since GHW Bush said he didn’t think atheists could be patriotic nor should they be considered citizens (while I was in the Navy on an aircraft carrier).

As for liberals, there are plenty who are religious. As for the Democratic Party, we don’t have a specific plank making us an overtly religious party.

As for irredeemable, she did not say that. If you want to reject the Nazi rhetoric of the right wing, you are most certainly not irredeemable. If however you need to lie about what your opponent said to justify your own position, that does make you deplorable.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” she told the crowd, which reacted with laughter and applause. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that.

“And he has lifted them up,” Clinton continued. “He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric.”

usatoday.com

cnn.com

Thanks for playing, you need to up your game.

162
SteelPH  Sep 18, 2016 • 7:43:28pm

re: #157 Ojoe

Youtube Video

163
BigPapa  Sep 19, 2016 • 3:26:28am

re: #157 Ojoe

Dead thread troll being deplorable. Normalizing white supremacy and racism by holding the female candidate and by default ‘the left’ to some moral standard yet silent on all the deplorable shit the right is saying and stands for.


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