In Which Donald Trump Jr. Jokes About the Holocaust

Chip off the old block
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With Donald Trump Jr.’s record of following, retweeting and associating with antisemites and white supremacists, we shouldn’t find it surprising at all that, in the midst of whining about the media giving Hillary Clinton a pass (which in itself is ridiculous), he’d make what appears to be a joke about the Nazi Holocaust.

“The media has been her number one surrogate in this,” the younger Trump told radio host Chris Stigall on 1210 WPHT radio in Philadelphia. “Without the media, this wouldn’t even be a contest, but the media has built her up. They’ve let her slide on every in-discrepancy, on every lie, on every DNC game trying to get Bernie Sanders out of this thing.

“If Republicans were doing that, they’d be warming up the gas chamber right now.”

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120 comments

1
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:16:14pm
2
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:16:25pm

Of all the things in the world this particular fool should not have joked about this particular subject. Which happens to be popular with the alt-right crowd.

3
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:16:58pm

re: #1 klys (maker of Silmarils)

First step to soylent green.

4
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:18:41pm

FFS, he’s even more annoying to listen to than his father.

5
Charles Johnson  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:20:22pm
6
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:22:14pm

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

7
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:23:09pm

re: #2 Nyet

Of all the things in the world this particular fool should not have joked about this particular subject. Which happens to be popular with the alt-right crowd.

He’s been reading all their tweets.

8
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:23:19pm

I didn’t know you warmed up gas chambers. Perhaps it’s ovens Junior Dumbfuck is talking about.

9
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:24:06pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

Media will accept that explanation. They always do.

10
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:26:26pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

CP is individual. He was talking mass gassing…

11
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:26:28pm

Every time the Trumps open their mouth to complain about Clinton’s basket of deplorables, they prove her wrong - she undercounted the size of the basket.

Trump’s statements are dog whistles to the white supremacists and bigot brigade, and diminishes the meaning and power of the words used. It’s flippant to claim that media would be warming up gas chambers for use if Trump did what Clinton did (there’s that projection once again, but I digress).

It’s disgusting the way the Trumps (Sr. and Jr.) have mainstreamed all kinds of Holocaust language as used by the white supremacists they court and flirt with regularly.

It’s why references to white genocide are so disgusting.

Genocide has a very specific meaning:

Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide(1948)as”any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

As usually applied, it refers to events like the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, Rwanda, Congo, and several other events worldwide.

There’s no such effort by anyone to engage in anything approaching “white genocide” except in the fevered dreams of white supremacists who are hoping for a racial holy war, where they can go and kill anyone who isn’t white - basically engage in genocide against those who they think are lesser than they are.

Throw in flippant casual statements about the Holocaust, and you’ve got Trumps peddling a worldview comfortable at Stormfront or any other white nationalist/white supremacist site online.

And it’s scary how many people, including some Jews, are willing to overlook all of this.

12
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:26:45pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

He’s been reading all their tweets.

Exactly. He knows the pictures.

13
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:31:07pm

re: #4 Dr. Matt

FFS, he’s even more annoying to listen to than his father.

Impossible!

Junior knows that his audience (White Supremacists) love “jokes” about putting people in gas chambers because to them the Holocaust is so hilarious (if they believe it actually happened).

14
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:31:53pm

re: #8 Skip Intro

I didn’t know you warmed up gas chambers. Perhaps it’s ovens Junior Dumbfuck is talking about.

Zyklon B gas chambers were usually warmed up (with braziers) because HCN is then released from the granules more quickly.

(I’m not saying that’s what he meant, he was just being a dumb fuck.)

15
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:31:55pm

Oh yes, the media is TOTALLY in the bag for Clinton, yeah that makes perfect fucking sense.

*spit*

16
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:32:02pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

Gas chambers are used in which state for capital punishment?

17
gocart mozart  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:32:13pm
18
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:32:16pm

Also, reposting from downstairs because of how important I feel about it:

I have a degree in journalism, I’ve worked in the business. It’s easy to want to go after reporters for their ridiculous soft handling of Trump but it’s a colossal mistake to blame a reporter for everything that appears in a news story bearing his or her byline.

You see, after a reporter completes a story, it will go through multiple editors before ever seeing print or broadcast. As a general rule, the larger the media outlet, the more layers of editors between the initial development of the story and the finished project.

For the most part, editors have free reign to change whatever aspects of the story they might want, even to the point of ordering the reporter to do a complete rewrite if they aren’t happy with the product. Changes editors make may go against the intent of the original reporter and though that reporter can appeal any decision, the power ultimately lies with the editors and if they are determined to make a change, the change will happen.

Then above all the editors you have the publisher (the TV equivalent would be a station manager or network executive). These are the people financially responsible for the media outlet and who hold the most sway regarding the public image of said outlet.

Even if a story gets through all the editors with only minor changes, a Publisher might kill it dead if it suits him or her to do so (for example, an unflattering piece on a company in which the Publisher holds a significant interest).

This is not SUPPOSED to happen, but it does happen pretty much every damned day in every newspaper or TV network or online outlet in America. One of the first things my journalism professor drilled into our heads is that there really is no such thing as unbiased media.

The worst part of it is, that through all the changes that occur between the editors and the publisher, the writer maintains the byline. So you end up with your name attached to something that is fundamentally different from what you originally intended and you can’t really do much about it.

It’s similar to what happens in the film industry where a writer develops a great script but then actors demand changes, the producers demand changes, the studio cuts the budget and the end product is nowhere what the original writer had conceived.

Also, usually reporters are not responsible for writing the headline that goes to a story. There’s a separate editorial group for that. As we know, headlines can play a big part in shaping perception of a story. It’s very easy to pair a headline that says one thing with a story that seemingly suggests the opposite and blur the lines between them.

Journalism can be a fierce, petty, egotistical business and it’s mostly controlled and influenced not by the people it serves, but the powerful and monied interests that keep the cameras rolling and the presses printing.

It has become more about making money than telling the truth.

A lot of the interest in Trump reminds me of the Dennis Rodman phenomenon of the mid to late 1990s. The allure was that Rodman was so strange, so unconventional and so unpredictable you just wanted to follow him around all the time because you never knew what crazy shit might happen next. People were intrigued and “The Worm” got a lot of exposure as a result.

With Trump it’s the same, he’s a walking train wreck, a veritable unending fountain of crazy shit. A lot of the people who read stories on Trump are not Trump supporters but rather people who continually tell themselves: “Oh my god, this fucker is crazy!”

But they’ll keep reading and they’ll keep watching because Trump is so unpredictable.

The important difference though is that Trump is not an athlete or a movie star or a web celebrity, he’s a major party candidate for President of the United States.

As such the expectations should be higher and the coverage should be less flattering and the media should hold him more accountable.

But they won’t because they can make more money showing train wrecks all day long than they can by actually showing integrity.

19
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:33:05pm

re: #8 Skip Intro

I didn’t know you warmed up gas chambers. Perhaps it’s ovens Junior Dumbfuck is talking about.

He got his holocaust metaphors mixed up. He conflated gas chambers with ovens. //

20
Timothy Watson  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:33:13pm

re: #16 Patricia Kayden

Gas chambers are used in which state for capital punishment?

5, but none as the primary method of execution:
deathpenaltyinfo.org

21
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:35:12pm

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

22
Trumpia est omnis divisa in duo calathi(Sophist)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:35:28pm

re: #1 klys (maker of Silmarils)

23
Lidane  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:35:36pm

Uh huh. Sure.

24
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:36:16pm

Damn—wanted to put this in the Olbermann thread, but I wasn’t quick enough.

My favorite Keith Olbermann quotes come from a commencement speech he gave at Cornell in 1998:

“I do know without fear of contradiction what the definition of life is and it is 12 words long. “Life is defined by how much you improve the lives of others.”

Olbermann uses the term moral force.

“It’s an awareness that the other people in the world are other people, and that you are one of them. That every time you have a chance to help somebody out, to do what’s right instead of what you think you’re supposed to do, you should do it.”

He points out that you won’t necessarily always do it, but that it should always be a consideration, and that it involved NOT DOING WHAT YOU KNOW IS WRONG, as well as doing what is right.

“If you keep your Moral Force intact just sufficiently so that you can stand up once or twice in the rest of your life and say, “You know what? This is wrong for me and for people I know and for people I don’t know and I’m not going to do it,” you will have improved the world.

vegsource.com

25
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:37:22pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

Yeah, because when someone evokes “gas chambers”, everyone immediately thinks of capital punishment in the United States.

//

26
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:37:32pm

re: #19 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

He got his holocaust metaphors mixed up. He conflated gas chambers with ovens. //

That, by the way, was a usual conflation during wartime, people would speak of murder in “gas ovens”, as if it made sense.

27
petesh  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:38:14pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

Please don’t. Family matters. Family is important.

We are all members of the American family, and some of our relatives are out of their heads, as some of our relatives always have been. There is more to say here but I want to get the post up.

28
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:39:50pm

re: #18 Eclectic Cyborg

Good points. Also affecting: media consolidations, which leaves fewer outlets for where reporters can do their work. The Bergen Record just had massive layoffs - they were bought by Gannett, and have now been gutted/filleted, and ruined - despite all kinds of award winning coverage (they broke Bridgegate among other things). When you fire half the staff, no good will come from it.

Of course, the newspaper business has been waning for years, and profits are what ultimately drives things. Ad revenues down? Another round of cuts. Fewer people buy papers or click through because there’s no original news coverage? More cuts. It’s a vicious circle.

29
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:40:10pm

30
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:41:11pm

re: #27 petesh

Please don’t. Family matters. Family is important.

We are all members of the American family, and some of our relatives are out of their heads, as some of our relatives always have been. There is more to say here but I want to get the post up.

I have no intention of cutting off family, even if that makes me a fascist apologist to some people.

Just like I have every intention of continuing to support Hillary and donating to her campaign. Of encouraging my sisters, who both live in swing states, to vote for HRC. Of being a sounding board for my mom as she deals with the frustration of actually trying to have a dialogue with the family members who might listen.

But I am going to go for that walk, because I’m at the point where a lot of what I want to say isn’t productive and doesn’t contribute to the conversation, such as it is.

31
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:42:30pm

I’m writing a page.

Trump has said he would force Muslims to register with the government, right? Making sure I am not exaggerating.

32
CuriousLurker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:42:45pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

Uh-huh, sure he was. In addition to what Sergey said in his #10, only 11 people have been executed by gas chamber since 1976, the last being in 1999. So yeah, I can totally see how CP would be the first thing that would spring into the mind of a guy who was in his early 20’s the last time that method was used.

33
Trumpia est omnis divisa in duo calathi(Sophist)  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:43:11pm

re: #25 Dr. Matt

Yeah, because when someone evokes “gas chambers”, everyone immediately thinks of capital punishment in the United States.

//

Plausible deniability. Vague enough that he can “clarify” it with the press, but you can be damn sure the Pepe-avatar-sporting shoah-enthusiast twitter deplorables will take it as a shout out to their section of the basket.

34
petesh  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:43:28pm

re: #30 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Fair enough. But know that you have my sympathy (even if I didn’t get into the back and forth on the previous thread) and you don’t deserve to have shit flung at you.

35
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:44:00pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

Yesterday some idiot called NYT a Nazi newspaper and instead of being drowned in downdings even got updinged a few times. Yes, can’t wait for the silly season to be over.

36
Dr. Matt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:44:38pm

Something cheerful for such a gloomy topic of a thread

Instagram

BAEEEEEEE 🧀🍞🧀🍞🧀🍞🧀 #foooodieee #macandcheese #grilledcheese #drooling #heaven #bae #nodiettoday #dietstartstomorrow #stacked #longisland #socheesy #saycheese #morecheese PC: @eatmenyc

37
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:44:54pm
38
Kragar  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:44:57pm
39
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:45:05pm

re: #32 CuriousLurker

And the only states to consider it are Arizona, California, Missouri, Wyoming, and Oklahoma.

40
Mike Lamb  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:45:15pm

Yes…it was a reference to capital punishment. Except we don’t use the gas chamber any more. And he constantly re-tweets anti-Semitic pieces of shit.

41
baski deploribus derpum  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:46:12pm

He shouted out to white supremacists. Oh well. Hillary has a bunion, BREAKING!!!

42
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:46:18pm

Damn it! Columbus Police shot and killed a 13 year old kid not too far from where I live last night.

And there seems to be some questions around it all.

Here is the Columbus Dispatch story posted without further comment. I’m going to wait to hear more details.

Columbus Dispatch - Police chief identifies officer who shot 13-year-old suspect

Part of the story:

City and police officials released the name of the police officer who shot a 13-year-old boy Wednesday night in the Olde Towne East neighborhood.

Tyree King, an 8th grader at Linden-McKinley STEM Academy, died at Nationwide Children’s Hospital around 8:22 p.m., roughly half an hour after police said he had been shot multiple times by officer Bryan Mason in an alley near East Capitol Street.

This morning, Columbus Police Chief Kim Jacobs gave the officer’s name, adding, “Officers at the scene were very disturbed about the fact that here we are at the this time of the night chasing armed 13-year-olds.”

Officers had initially been called to the area of East Broad and 18th streets on an armed robbery call, according to Sgt. Rich Weiner, spokesman for the Columbus Division of Police.

The robbery victim told officers several young men approached him, one with a gun, demanding money, police said.

The victim handed over $10, according to audio from the 911 call obtained by the Dispatch.

The victim told officers that he wasn’t “going to mess with it over $10,” but a woman called police and put him on the phone.

That woman took the phone back and can be heard pointing out the suspects to officers that had arrived on the scene.

Officers approached three males on nearby Hoffman Street, two of whom fled on foot to the alley off East Capitol Street, police said.

King, who was one of those fleeing, pulled what police later determined to be a BB gun with an attached laser sight from his waistband. An officer then shot King, police said.

On the 911 call, the woman screams, “Oh! He’s shooting them! Oh my God! They’re shooting! Oh my God!”

The officer and the other man with King, 19-year-old Demetrius Braxton, were not injured.

Braxton told the Dispatch that he was with King and saw the shooting.

Braxton described King’s gun as a BB gun that look like a real gun. He said there was a laser site under the gun barrel.

King wanted to rob someone for money, Braxton said. “I was in the situation,” he said. “We robbed somebody, the people I was with.”

Braxton said police started chasing them and they ran. “The cops said to get down. We got down but my friend (King) got up and ran.”

“He started to run. When he ran, the cops shot him.”

He said King was shot four to five times. “I didn’t think a cop would shoot. Why didn’t they tase him?” Braxton said.

Police said the young male who was with King was interviewed and released pending further investigation.

A man who lives in the area, Chris Naderer of Hoffman Avenue, said he was in his home when he heard someone knock down a gate in his backyard. He looked outside to see a police officer chasing two young men into an alley behind his home. He said he then heard three to five gunshots from the alley.

At City Hall today, Mayor Andrew J. Ginther, Jacobs and Public Safety Director Ned Pettus spoke about the shooting.

Ginther said King’s death and the fact he had such a weapon should be a wakeup call for the city. He urged calm and patience as police investigation and King’s family grieves.

“The loss of a young person is particularly difficult,” Ginther said. “As a mayor and a father, the loss of a 13-year-old in the city of Columbus is troubling.”

- - CUT - - More at link.

43
plansbandc  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:47:00pm

Nate Silver was my voice of reason last Presidential election. Now he just throws out gloom and doom. WTF happened to him?

On the other hand, my new voice of reason (and a damn smart one at that) is Propane Jane on twitter. She tells it like it is in a no BS way that is soothing to my frazzled nerve.

44
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:47:11pm

re: #18 Eclectic Cyborg

Would an opinion column by an editor (e.g., the recent false balance nonsense by NYT public editor Liz Spayd) also be massaged internally by many levels of in-house review while retaining its original byline?

45
CuriousLurker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:47:40pm

re: #20 Timothy Watson

5, but none as the primary method of execution:
deathpenaltyinfo.org

Exactly. Here’s the table showing the last 11 since 1976:

46
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:47:52pm

re: #20 Timothy Watson

5, but none as the primary method of execution:
deathpenaltyinfo.org

Wow. Had no idea that was an actual form of the death penalty in this country. That’s pretty barbaric but I guess all forms of execution are grotesque.

47
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:48:15pm

re: #35 Nyet

At best, I am ambivalent towards that comment.

I think it went a bit too far, but at the same time, they don’t seem to mind the idea of Anti-Muslim or Anti-Hispanic violence.

48
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:48:33pm

re: #40 Mike Lamb

He retweeted MacDonald for IPU’s sake.

49
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:49:04pm

re: #45 CuriousLurker

Last was 16 years ago.

Most people don’t remember much 16 years ago. That is bullshit.

50
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:49:27pm

re: #6 Stanley Sea

The Trump campaign just said that Jr. was talking about capital punishment.

OK

Strangely enough, in the past week or so this happened in Ohio:
Jim Petro commentary: Death penalty is in decline, but problems remain

Most urgently in my view, the new report catalogs the reluctance of Ohio legislators to consider most of the 56 recommendations made in 2014 by the Supreme Court Joint Task Force on the Administration of Ohio’s Death Penalty. The charge to that task force was to find ways to make Ohio’s death penalty more fair and accurate.

Only a handful of the recommendations have been considered, and not those which would make the biggest difference. For example, the recommendation to narrow the felony murder rule would address much of Ohio’s disparity in death sentencing. Thirteen of the recommendations, individually and collectively, would go a long way toward preventing wrongful convictions. In failing to act, legislators effectively maintain the status quo, which is a broken system that currently serves only the interest of Ohio prosecutors. That is a grave mistake.

Another grave mistake is the terrible suggestion by the director of the Ohio Prosecuting Attorneys Association that Ohio adopt the gas chamber to conduct executions. I hope Gov. John Kasich and all Ohio legislators soundly reject that notion. It is offensive to the human experience and has no place in our great state.

51
A Mom Anon  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:49:34pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Don’t leave over this, we need you here. I have family members who are completely off the rails this election, but instead of cutting them out of my life, I have decided to just back the truck up and let them alone for now.

I suppose I have kind of an advantage right now since The Husband and I are taking in an entire family and we can use that as a buffer. A lot of real idiots politically are offering to help us with stuff for the kids (though to be truthful, it’s been mostly talk so far) and have backed away from politics with us and are worried about the kids, about the stress on us, etc. I have a really good reason not to be online much or focus on the news (right now all I’m listening to is Stephanie Miller on Sirius XM in the mornings while I do chores), and it’s helping to keep me out of the fray.

If you want to be here, don’t let someone’s opinions keep you out. I like you and I know I’m not alone here in saying that. People feel like they do, without sometimes realizing things are not always black and white. What counts is who you vote for and what you do to make your little piece of the world better, beyond that, there’s not much you can effect all by yourself. YMMV of course, but here’s a tiny {{{Hug}}} anyway.

52
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:50:01pm

Media is focusing on Doctor Oz.

53
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:53:12pm

Trump to Trump Jr
“Son, you’re not helping”

Trump Jr.
“Don’t worry dad i’ll get it right next time”

Trump Jr To National Media
“Dad can’t release his taxes, it would raise too many questions”

Oh man that next chat with Dad….

54
TedStriker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:53:25pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

I don’t know what Anymouse’s malfunction is, but I sure as hell won’t let him or anyone else run you off….fuck that noise.

55
Belafon  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:53:29pm

re: #43 plansbandc

Nate Silver was my voice of reason last Presidential election. Now he just throws out gloom and doom. WTF happened to him?

On the other hand, my new voice of reason (and a damn smart one at that) is Propane Jane on twitter. She tells it like it is in a no BS way that is soothing to my frazzled nerve.

Nate has pretty much always been this way, IIRC. He’s always been hedging his bets, and he’s always been looking to see if there’s that one unknown that will throw his predictions out of whack. But, as Sam Wang points out, Nate’s got a bigger need to draw in traffic since he has to generate clicks.

56
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:54:37pm

re: #55 Belafon

538 is the biggest reason I am in such a tizzy.

He has been the most accurate in the past, and that scares me right now.

57
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:54:42pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

I did not say “you should cut off your grandparents.” I said you should try to inform them that Trump is a Nazi.

There were plenty of people who had Nazis as grandparents. Are your grandparents special, or is it only other people’s grandparents that should be considered in a basket of deplorables.

Think about that whilst I think about the part of my family that didn’t escape the Nazis and died in Stutthof Concentration Camp in Gdansk, because some people in Danzig had grandparents who were Nazis and they didn’t oppose their Nazism.

I am going to shower and go to bed. Nazi apologetics (but but but they’re my grandpappy and gramms) sickens me.

My dead family lie dead from apologetics.

My Gold Star Family Button was spit on by a Nazi, and you want to support Nazi supporters?

I need to take a break from Little Green Footballs for a few days. Perhaps that is why I sent my money to Wonkette yesterday. They don’t make special snowflake arguments for Nazi apologists.

58
CuriousLurker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:54:47pm

re: #46 Patricia Kayden

Wow. Had no idea that was an actual form of the death penalty in this country. That’s pretty barbaric but I guess all forms of execution are grotesque.

The last person to be beheaded in Europe (in France, by guillotine) was a Tunisian immigrant named Hamida Djandoubi, in 1977. The Western world’s barbaric practices aren’t as far behind us as we’d like to think.

59
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:56:00pm

re: #27 petesh

Please don’t. Family matters. Family is important.

We are all members of the American family, and some of our relatives are out of their heads, as some of our relatives always have been. There is more to say here but I want to get the post up.

She was flat out scolded downstairs that she chooses family over country and thus supports fascism because she won’t throw her grandfather under some sort of ideological bus.

60
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:56:16pm

re: #43 plansbandc

Nate Silver was my voice of reason last Presidential election. Now he just throws out gloom and doom. WTF happened to him?

On the other hand, my new voice of reason (and a damn smart one at that) is Propane Jane on twitter. She tells it like it is in a no BS way that is soothing to my frazzled nerve.

Silver is keeping it real. The polls are tightening up and it doesn’t make sense to pretend otherwise. Clinton will probably still win but perhaps it’s good to be a bit frightened so that more people are motivated to get out and vote and not take her win for granted.

61
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:56:51pm

re: #57 Anymouse

I need to take a break from Little Green Footballs for a few days.

Please do.

62
CuriousLurker  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:57:49pm

re: #57 Anymouse

I need to take a break from Little Green Footballs for a few days. Perhaps that is why I sent my money to Wonkette yesterday. They don’t make special snowflake arguments for Nazi apologists.

Yes, you do need to—klys isn’t the enemy here, so why don’t you just back the fuck off?

63
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:58:46pm

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Star Wars had been out for 5 months by that time, to give a way of Comparison.

Also, The Horror of Fang Rock was playing its second episode, with Tom Baker as the 4th Doctor, and Louisa Jameson as the companion Leela.

64
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 12:59:51pm

re: #59 Backwoods_Sleuth

She was flat out scolded downstairs that she chooses family over country and thus supports fascism because she won’t throw her grandfather under some sort of ideological bus.

As if fascism was some sort of equivalent to conservatism or liberalism.

Apparently this conversation over two threads is too difficult for me, considering part of my family was killed by Nazis in the Holocaust.

There is no magic balance fairy argument. Trump is a Nazi apologist. Banner is a neo-Nazi. Anyone who supports them are neo-Nazi apologists, and if I cannot make them see that, I will oppose them, no matter whose grandpappy we’re talking about.

65
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:01:34pm

re: #57 Anymouse

Please stay. I value your contributions and agree with you that human rights and decency trumps biology.

66
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:01:58pm
67
Anymouse  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:02:09pm

re: #62 CuriousLurker

Yes, you do need to—klys isn’t the enemy here, so why don’t you just back the fuck off?

Thank you, I’ll do that. I did not call Klys an enemy. Nevertheless, I will go to “read only” for a few days. The anniversary of the invasion of Poland (and the slaughter of my family) was only a few days ago. Perhaps I am just too hysterical.

68
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:02:45pm

What misogyny?

This is the crap women have to deal with 24/7/365. Clinton’s put up with more than most. And it’s coming to a head in this election because of who she is and what she represents.

69
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:04:12pm

re: #68 lawhawk

What misogyny?

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

This is the crap women have to deal with 24/7/365. Clinton’s put up with more than most. And it’s coming to a head in this election because of who she is and what she represents.

It’s fucking Chanel.

70
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:04:35pm

re: #57 Anymouse

I make a point of not correcting people when they call Trump a Nazi, but I’ll make an exception: Trump is *not* a Nazi and at most is a protofascist. And yes, he’s a racist, bigot and someone who should never become President, but words matter. He’s not a Nazi (though he’s #1 with the Nazis).

So your self-righteousness rests on false premises in the first place.

71
TedStriker  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:04:53pm

re: #57 Anymouse

I did not say “you should cut off your grandparents.” I said you should try to inform them that Trump is a Nazi.

There were plenty of people who had Nazis as grandparents. Are your grandparents special, or is it only other people’s grandparents that should be considered in a basket of deplorables.

Think about that whilst I think about the part of my family that didn’t escape the Nazis and died in Stutthof Concentration Camp in Gdansk, because some people in Danzig had grandparents who were Nazis and they didn’t oppose their Nazism.

I am going to shower and go to bed. Nazi apologetics (but but but they’re my grandpappy and gramms) sickens me.

My dead family lie dead from apologetics.

My Gold Star Family Button was spit on by a Nazi, and you want to support Nazi supporters?

I need to take a break from Little Green Footballs for a few days. Perhaps that is why I sent my money to Wonkette yesterday. They don’t make special snowflake arguments for Nazi apologists.

Fuck you.

72
CuriousLurker  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:04:58pm

re: #67 Anymouse

Thank you, I’ll do that. I did not call Klys an enemy. Nevertheless, I will go to “read only” for a few days. The anniversary of the invasion of Poland (and the slaughter of my family) was only a few days ago. Perhaps I am just too hysterical.

Yeah, and I’m an observant Muslim who is currently in the cross-hairs of these proto-fascist assholes, but I’m not gonna tell klys or anyone else here that they have to throw family members under the bus.

73
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:05:45pm

re: #67 Anymouse

Thank you, I’ll do that. I did not call Klys an enemy. Nevertheless, I will go to “read only” for a few days. The anniversary of the invasion of Poland (and the slaughter of my family) was only a few days ago. Perhaps I am just too hysterical.

Really sorry to read about what your family went through. I kind of share your viewpoint but I’m being hypocritical since I don’t have any family members or close friends who are Trump supporters so it’s easy for me to run my mouth.

I enjoy reading your comments so you will be missed if you decide to take a break (hopefully short).

74
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:06:39pm

re: #68 lawhawk

What misogyny?

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

This is the crap women have to deal with 24/7/365. Clinton’s put up with more than most. And it’s coming to a head in this election because of who she is and what she represents.

And when called on it, he’ll claim it was “just a joke”?

75
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:07:22pm

re: #65 William Lewis

Please stay. I value your contributions and agree with you that human rights and decency trumps biology.

What bothers me most about this 2-thread train wreck is the implied reduction of innumerable possible different levels of opposition to (or support for) US fascism to cartoonishly extreme polar opposites: Trump supporter vs. “I’ll never speak to you again as long as I live if you even mention the possibility of voting for Trump.”

Trump and his fascist goons must be opposed, but life is not so simple that there is only one way to do this.

76
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:07:28pm

re: #43 plansbandc

Nate Silver was my voice of reason last Presidential election. Now he just throws out gloom and doom. WTF happened to him?

On the other hand, my new voice of reason (and a damn smart one at that) is Propane Jane on twitter. She tells it like it is in a no BS way that is soothing to my frazzled nerve.

He’s a stats guy, but he’s also got bills to pay.

The stats still show Clinton winning. Odds still show her winning, but they’re down slightly.

Don’t worry too much about daily oscillations. We’ve got the first debate coming up, and that should settle things about Trump’s incompetence and incoherence, and Clinton’s stamina, judgment, and character.

Only way debate goes badly is if Trump’s rope-a-doping everyone into thinking he’s going to get clobbered, and instead comes out with coherent vision for everything he speaks on, but the odds of that happening are remote at best. You can’t change the spots on a leopard, or a tiger’s stripes. He is who is he. Undisciplined, irrational, and a hate-monger.

77
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:08:19pm

re: #69 Stanley Sea

It’s fucking Chanel.

Why’s she wearing such expensive clothes.

78
TedStriker  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:08:26pm

re: #71 TedStriker

You have something to add, William?

79
Kragar  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:08:47pm

re: #68 lawhawk

80
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:09:18pm

re: #76 lawhawk

But the media can cover for him, or distract people with shiny.

I am learning that many journalists are thin-skinned clowns.

81
Varek Raith  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:09:25pm

WTF is going on???
Sigh…

82
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:09:32pm

re: #78 TedStriker

You have something to add, William?

Read the bit about Stutthof.

83
Nyet  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:10:31pm

re: #81 Varek Raith

WTF is going on???
Sigh…

Silly season.

84
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:10:48pm

I do admit that when I am very stressed out, I will forget to take

a) a daytime Anti-Depressant and
b) an Anti Anxiety Medication.

This may have some bearing on my ability to relax/not panic.

85
Eventual Carrion  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:11:31pm

re: #23 Lidane

Uh huh. Sure.

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

He was just “celebrating his heritage” like the confederate flag people.

86
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:11:35pm

re: #75 EPR-radar

What bothers me most about this 2-thread train wreck is the implied reduction of innumerable possible different levels of opposition to (or support for) US fascism to cartoonishly extreme polar opposites: Trump supporter vs. “I’ll never speak to you again as long as I live if you even mention the possibility of voting for Trump.”

Trump and his fascist goons must be opposed, but life is not so simple that there is only one way to do this.

My thoughts as well. I’m fortunate enough (after all, I *am* Canadian) to have NO significant friends/family who are trump supporters (though I do have a few online US friends who are durr hurr both sides, won’t vote)

But the most important thing to remember is that the election hasn’t happened yet. I’m still holding out hope for a last-minute voting booth equivalent of the deathbed conversion, where even those who ostensibly claim they’ll vote for trump will, at the moment of truth, say, “nope nope nope can’t do it.”

87
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:12:54pm

My 85 year old mother, to this day, refuses to acknowledge the existence of my cousin in Colorado because his grandfather (her uncle/her mother’s brother) was an actual real life fucking Nazi.
Some members of my maternal grandfather’s family were among the early victims of Zyklon B (they were the dreadful Rom/Gypsies).
Cutting off family has serious consequences that can reverberate though generations, no matter how ideological self-righteous that initial purity test makes one feel.

Shit like this makes my skin crawl.

(And my cousin is a really nice guy despite the fact that he lives in Colorado Springs.)

88
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:13:06pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

What the hell is going on? I’m racing trying catch up…but until I find what is causing this reaction…please do not go!

89
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:13:31pm

re: #75 EPR-radar

What bothers me most about this 2-thread train wreck is the implied reduction of innumerable possible different levels of opposition to (or support for) US fascism to cartoonishly extreme polar opposites: Trump supporter vs. “I’ll never speak to you again as long as I live if you even mention the possibility of voting for Trump.”

Trump and his fascist goons must be opposed, but life is not so simple that there is only one way to do this.

This.

It’s not black and white. People live in all kinds of shades of gray. Nuance is a real thing. I get that the vote itself is a binary act but the person who makes it is not.

90
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:16:17pm

re: #56 Ziggy_TARDIS

538 is the biggest reason I am in such a tizzy.

He has been the most accurate in the past, and that scares me right now.

He was the most accurate in 2008, but he’s used up any credit he had from that, with me at least. I remember when he got all pissy defending Rasmussen back when they first started. Shirley fellow pollsters would never just make shit up! Soon thereafter he landed a gig at the New York Times. Now he includes every conceivable poll, no matter how ridiculous, in his averages—and since the paid-for propagandists realize that, they keep dumping these idiotic polls, like the Bloomberg Ohio reversal the other day, into the mix, knowing it’ll pull down the average.

Stick with Sam Wang, he knows what he’s doing.

91
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:16:24pm

re: #88 ObserverArt

What the hell is going on? I’m racing trying catch up…but until I find what is causing this reaction…please do not go!

I lifted some weights instead of the walk and worked out some of the initial frustration. I’m still here, although I reserve the right to back off again if it gets silly. (Sillier?)

92
TedStriker  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:16:57pm

re: #71 TedStriker

You have something to add, William?

Anymouse decided to stick his dick in a hornet’s nest by insulting klys, then doubling down by posting this shit:

I need to take a break from Little Green Footballs for a few days. Perhaps that is why I sent my money to Wonkette yesterday. They don’t make special snowflake arguments for Nazi apologists.

and you downding me?

I get Anymouse’s dislike for Nazis and those with Nazi-like tendencies, given his own family history, but that gives them abso-fucking-lutely no right to go after klys like he did; that and the above quote is why I told him “fuck you”.

93
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:19:20pm

re: #90 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Ok. Chrome has a way to block certain sites I think.

I will see if someone else second’s you, and if they do, it will be the first site on the block list.

I will go pay Car Insurance, then go to Dallas Democratic Office.

94
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:20:11pm

re: #21 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m gonna go for a walk, guys, because apparently my unwillingness to cut off my grandparents means I support fascism.

If this is what the election is going to bring out, I may be taking a break until after the election.

Okay I read it. Do not leave all of us based on a few opinions.

I think one thing that seems to be missing here from Anymouse is this country on a whole does not want Donald Trump and we do have ways of making sure if he gets totally out of control he will be dealt with. The Republicans don’t want him. The military doesn’t want him…and up to 3/4 of the voters don’t want him.

I’m going to go with those numbers and say he has no power. He hasn’t been elected yet to be drawing lines in the sand.

And sorry ‘mouse, but extremism is extreme no matter the side. Maybe your family is a wreck and you can take YOUR stand, but that is your stand. I think you are out of line saying someone else may need to be just like you.

And, I don’t know the ages of klys’ grandparents, but there may be other issues at work here too, and you are not considering it.

95
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:21:13pm

re: #92 TedStriker

Seems to me you need to read the whole post where he doesn’t “go after” but does say that he believes she needs to confront them. Now you might feel otherwise that the rainbow unicorns will make everything better with people’s family but the reality is that it took an awful lot of Good Germans (who were not opposed until it was too late), nice loving family members, to create the disaster last time.

I don’t have any advice for Klys. Nor any advice for Anymouse. I do have some for you - you aren’t helping.

96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:22:19pm

re: #91 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I lifted some weights instead of the walk and worked out some of the initial frustration. I’m still here, although I reserve the right to back off again if it gets silly. (Sillier?)

We’ll just check out the liquor cabinet and post cat pictures, yes?

97
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:22:24pm

re: #91 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I lifted some weights instead of the walk and worked out some of the initial frustration. I’m still here, although I reserve the right to back off again if it gets silly. (Sillier?)

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

98
No Country For Old Haters  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:22:26pm

re: #84 Ziggy_TARDIS

I do admit that when I am very stressed out, I will forget to take

a) a daytime Anti-Depressant and
b) an Anti Anxiety Medication.

This may have some bearing on my ability to relax/not panic.

I use Citalopram for both, and there’s just a wobbly feeling if I forget a dose, no increase in anxiety or depression.

99
EPR-radar  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:22:33pm

re: #92 TedStriker


I get Anymouse’s dislike for Nazis and those with Nazi-like tendencies, given his own family history, but that gives them abso-fucking-lutely no right to go after klys like he did; that’s why I told him “fuck you”.

Especially since this is all second order stuff. It’s not like Klys is voting for Trump or apologizing for Trump. Instead the issue is the possible vote of an older relative that Klys may or may not be able to influence at all. If influence is possible, a threat to never visit again seems like a piss-poor way to go about it.

100
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:23:09pm

re: #98 No Country For Old Haters

Neither are SSRIs.

I will become moodier/more depressed without them.

When I am incredibly worried or stress, my memory frazzles, and then I forget it. The cycle starts there, and I don’t think I need to go any further.

101
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:23:10pm

re: #43 plansbandc

Nate Silver was my voice of reason last Presidential election. Now he just throws out gloom and doom. WTF happened to him?

On the other hand, my new voice of reason (and a damn smart one at that) is Propane Jane on twitter. She tells it like it is in a no BS way that is soothing to my frazzled nerve.

I am under the impression that Nate doesn’t control the site as he once did. Didn’t he take a big job somewhere, like maybe in the sporting world, because of his methods?

102
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:24:35pm

re: #101 ObserverArt

I am under the impression that Nate doesn’t control the site as he once did. Didn’t he take a big job somewhere, like maybe in the sporting world, because of his methods?

ESPN owns 538.

103
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:24:56pm

re: #92 TedStriker

You have something to add, William?

Anymouse decided to stick his dick in a hornet’s nest by insulting klys, then doubling down by posting this shit:

and you downding me?

I get Anymouse’s dislike for Nazis and those with Nazi-like tendencies, given his own family history, but that gives them abso-fucking-lutely no right to go after klys like he did; that’s why I told him “fuck you”.

I do appreciate it. The right thing to do at this point is to just let it drop.

If Anymouse chose to read what I posted - and anyone can go back and look at what I said - as making a special snowflake argument for Nazi apologists, I can’t really change that. He and I disagree - strongly - on the appropriate way to handle family members who support Trump.

I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind.

104
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:27:05pm

re: #102 A wild WITHAK appeared!

ESPN is owned by ABC….

105
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:27:10pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

We’ll just check out the liquor cabinet and post cat pictures, yes?

I approve of cat pictures as therapy for the day.

106
A Mom Anon  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:28:18pm

re: #89 klys (maker of Silmarils)

My parents and I didn’t speak for a fucking decade because of politics and religion. TEN YEARS. They are right wing conservative evangelical Christians who used to sell Amway when I was a kid. As a result of this stupid fight, they missed their only grandson growing up and he’s not at all close to them now. And they regret it deeply. I never put up the barriers, they did. They are not Trump supporters, but they are still right wing conservatives who will vote Republican down ticket and I can’t talk them out of that. Lord knows I’ve tried.

The point is, if I maintained a purity test here, I would never have reconciled with them when my dad nearly died of a heart attack about 6 yrs ago. They also would have missed their grandson’s high school graduation, his graduation from the vocational rehab center and a bunch of other things. Our relationship is not perfect and it’s still strained, but they won’t be around forever, and it would have been awful had something happened to one of them without some sort of bridge being built. I hate that they vote for people who shit on others, but in their real lives, they don’t do that. Both my parents are losing their minds with excitement that my daughter and their great grandkids are coming here and they want to help. I can’t say no because of their religion or politics, that would be messed up.

107
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:32:03pm

re: #106 A Mom Anon

I don’t talk politics with my extended family at all. It’s a personal choice made for mental health reasons. Same goes for religion.

108
Great White Snark  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:34:26pm

re: #91 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I lifted some weights instead of the walk and worked out some of the initial frustration. I’m still here, although I reserve the right to back off again if it gets silly. (Sillier?)

I always hate the fights among us good lizards.

109
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:36:13pm

re: #97 BeachDem

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

110
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:36:36pm

re: #108 Great White Snark

I always hate the fights among us good lizards.

Sometimes, though, a certain amount of pushback is necessary, much as we prefer to avoid the unpleasantness.

111
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:36:50pm

re: #70 Nyet

I make a point of not correcting people when they call Trump a Nazi, but I’ll make an exception: Trump is *not* a Nazi and at most is a protofascist. And yes, he’s a racist, bigot and someone who should never become President, but words matter. He’s not a Nazi (though he’s #1 with the Nazis).

So your self-righteousness rests on false premises in the first place.

I hate the fucker with white hot passion. But, I think what he is doing is trying to become elected on the worst of people. Do I support that? Hell no! But I am not going to start building a wall with commenters on a political blog. Free discussion should not have walls.

People criticize Trump for wanting to make our country and us and them thing…and yet some of the people here are making this an us and them issue.

What the fuck???

112
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:40:07pm

re: #110 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sometimes, though, a certain amount of pushback is necessary, much as we prefer to avoid the unpleasantness.

Pushback is fine. Spirited argument is fine. People will get angry occasionally, and that’s fine.

Hyperbolic and overly personal attacks are not fine.

113
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:43:32pm

re: #112 A wild WITHAK appeared!

Pushback is fine. Spirited argument is fine. People will get angry occasionally, and that’s fine.

Hyperbolic and overly personal attacks are not fine.

Absolutely.
Once the words like “apologist” get flung about, that’s when pushbacks should be expected.

114
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:48:56pm

re: #95 William Lewis

Seems to me you need to read the whole post where he doesn’t “go after” but does say that he believes she needs to confront them. Now you might feel otherwise that the rainbow unicorns will make everything better with people’s family but the reality is that it took an awful lot of Good Germans (who were not opposed until it was too late), nice loving family members, to create the disaster last time.

I don’t have any advice for Klys. Nor any advice for Anymouse. I do have some for you - you aren’t helping.

William…I don’t think downdings help either. And how are we gauging klys hasn’t confronted them? Because she didn’t jump in their shit? We do not have the entire history here and why there is reluctance.

Would you jump on anyone in your family the same way ‘mouse took on klys?

Not if you are the Christian you say you are. Come on man. Shake you head, bang on that guitar and put this all in some proper perspective. There are better ways to work this shit out.

And it is real easy to attack someone by keyboard. I have a feeling ‘mouse wouldn’t be like he is being if klys was there in a room with him shooting the shit. Just a feeling.

I have an older brother that is most likely a Trump supporter. I stay away from him…it has been “iffy” since he got all over me in ‘92 for voting for Big Bill. I am not going to call him out because it won’t change a fucking thing. Well, except he is 6’7” and weighs about 280 lbs and has a mean temper even if he is 75. I’m going to work around him. And then only one that would get hurt if I mouth off to him would be me. I don’t want a busted jaw. Yeah…he is that mean.

115
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:50:21pm

re: #102 A wild WITHAK appeared!

ESPN owns 538.

Well…there IS the answer!

Money to be made.

Thanks. I knew there was a sporting connection. And ESPN can be, uh…streetwalkers.

116
blueraven  Sep 15, 2016 • 1:56:01pm

re: #90 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

He was the most accurate in 2008, but he’s used up any credit he had from that, with me at least. I remember when he got all pissy defending Rasmussen back when they first started. Shirley fellow pollsters would never just make shit up! Soon thereafter he landed a gig at the New York Times. Now he includes every conceivable poll, no matter how ridiculous, in his averages—and since the paid-for propagandists realize that, they keep dumping these idiotic polls, like the Bloomberg Ohio reversal the other day, into the mix, knowing it’ll pull down the average.

Stick with Sam Wang, he knows what he’s doing.

Nate does include all polls but, as you know, assigns them different “weights” and does adjust for house bias. And as I remember, he has excoriated both Rassmusen and Gallup.

117
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 2:03:42pm

re: #116 blueraven

Coming to think of it though, he is including polls no one else is including though. A lot of online ones for a start. NYT is somewhat lax on their inclusion of polls, but even they are rejecting a lot of polls Silver is including.

118
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2016 • 2:10:20pm

re: #117 Ziggy_TARDIS

Coming to think of it though, he is including polls no one else is including though. A lot of online ones for a start. NYT is somewhat lax on their inclusion of polls, but even they are rejecting a lot of polls Silver is including.

online polls are completely worthless.

119
Ziggy_TARDIS  Sep 15, 2016 • 4:13:00pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, Silver includes them, and NYT also includes them, but fewer of them.

120
Feline Fearless Leader  Sep 15, 2016 • 4:16:08pm

re: #105 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I approve of cat pictures as therapy for the day.

Dr Puffin suggests a nice cup of catnip tea and a nap

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