Yet Another Woman Goes on the Record Saying Donald Trump Sexually Assaulted Her

We’re in Bill Cosby territory now

It’s overwhelmingly clear now that Donald Trump has been sexually harassing and occasionally assaulting women for much of his adult life, and has only gotten away with it because, as he said, he’s famous.

But he isn’t getting away with it now that he’s running for president: Another Woman Says Donald Trump Groped Her: ‘I Felt Intimidated and Powerless.’

Karena Virginia, a yoga instructor an empowerment coach, said at a news conference Thursday that Trump harassed and groped her during a chance encounter at the U.S Open in 1998. As she was waiting for a car to take her home, Virginia said she overheard Trump appraising her body. “I was surprised when I overheard him talking to the other men about me,” Virginia told reporters in New York. “He said ‘hey, look at this one, we haven’t seen her before, look at those legs,’ as though I was an object rather than a person.”

Virginia said Trump, a total stranger, then grabbed her arm and touched her breast.

“I was in shock,” Virginia said. “I flinched. He said, ‘Don’t you know who I am?’ I felt intimidated and powerless. I said ‘yes.’”

She was 27 at the time. Trump, whose campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment, was in his early 50’s.

When she got into the car, Virginia said, “my shock turned to shame.” She said it made her “disinclined to wear short dresses or high heels.”

Virginia said she ran into Trump again about five years ago, and he “looked me up and down in a lecherous manner.” After this encounter, Virginia said she finally realized that, “I was the victim and he had violated me when he groped me years earlier.”

She then directed a portion of her remarks directly to Trump: “Mr. Trump, perhaps you do not remember me or what you did to me so many years ago. But I can assure you that I remember you and what you did to me as though it was yesterday. Your random moment of sexual pleasure came at my expense and affected me greatly.”

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352 comments

1
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:22:46pm

My fear, and it is perhaps unwarranted, is that there is a diminishing return here. As more stories come out, perhaps the public will simply turn off this whole collection of revelations about Drumpfskind.

2
bratwurst  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:23:37pm
3
Dave In Austin  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:26:03pm

Renee Ellmers is the new Kelly Anne Lite.

4
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:34:12pm

re: #1 freetoken

My fear, and it is perhaps unwarranted, is that there is a diminishing return here. As more stories come out, perhaps the public will simply turn off this whole collection of revelations about Drumpfskind.

I think at this point it IS diminishing returns. I think pretty much everyone who is ever going to believe the women already does, and those that don’t will never believe them. So it won’t move the needle, but it may prevent the needle moving backwards. The steady drip of accusations keeps the whole thing alive.

But we’ve seen this repeatedly with Trump - each new scandal replaces the previous scandal. It says something about both the laziness of his GOP opponents’ oppo research, and about the media’s ‘late to the party’ approach to vetting him. Although it must be said, these allegations were already out there. They only gained traction after the “Access Hollywood” tape came out.

5
jaunte  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:35:29pm

Trump’s bizarre non-sequitur reaction to these accusations: “I didn’t even apologize to my wife.”

6
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:37:19pm

And right on cue

Discredited political operative Gloria Allred, in another coordinated, publicity seeking attack with the Clinton campaign, will stop at nothing to smear Mr. Trump. Give me a break. Voters are tired of these circus-like antics and reject these fictional stories and the clear efforts to benefit Hillary Clinton.

Trump and his entire organization are fucking repulsive.

7
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:37:38pm

re: #5 jaunte

Trump’s bizarre non-sequitur reaction to these accusations: “I didn’t even apologize to my wife.”

He’s not what you would consider a great thinker.

I’m sure he was a schoolyard bully who always got his own way so was never challenged to think beyond his immediate desires.

And, he’s an idiot.

8
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:37:44pm

re: #5 jaunte

Trump’s bizarre non-sequitur reaction to these accusations: “I didn’t even apologize to my wife.”

And he lied when he said that last night.
Or he called Melania a liar.

9
jaunte  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:39:10pm

re: #8 Backwoods_Sleuth

The whole family is just a band of bullshitters.

10
Dave In Austin  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:40:25pm

Last 5 days HRC needs to push hard on the underage rape case.

11
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:41:35pm
12
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:42:16pm

re: #6 makeitstop

And right on cue

Trump and his entire organization are fucking repulsive.

Yet Trump is the fucking one that brought in a woman who was raped by a client that Hillary had as a PD and Trump used easily debunked bs that Hillary laughed at the then girl. Honestly, this campaign is so fucking pathetic. I hope Trump’s entire brand is ruined after this election and his dipshit kids actually have to work for a living rather than sponging off of Daddy’s name like Daddy did with Grandpa Trump.

13
Franklin  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:42:36pm

Repost from downstairs:

14
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:43:28pm

re: #10 Dave In Austin

Last 5 days HRC needs to push hard on the underage rape case.

I am honestly surprised the media has not pounced on that one yet.

15
Timothy Watson  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:43:58pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

16
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:45:01pm

re: #6 makeitstop

“Discredited political operative Gloria Allred?” I know some people don’t like her, but how has she been “discredited?”

17
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:46:10pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Embedded content]

I am MUCH more likely to wake up next to as Katy Perry as Trump taking Maryland.

18
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:46:14pm

re: #11 De Kolta Chair

Eeeeeeeew

[Embedded content]

Skeevy old git.

19
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:46:48pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

“Discredited political operative Gloria Allred?” I know some people don’t like her, but how has she been “discredited?”

She once got turned down for a credit card in college?

RBS

20
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:46:58pm
21
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:48:59pm

re: #10 Dave In Austin

Last 5 days HRC needs to push hard on the underage rape case.

Not a good idea.

There’s a trial pending. Trump’s lawyers could use any Clinton statement as grounds for a mistrial.

22
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:50:31pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

“Discredited political operative Gloria Allred?” I know some people don’t like her, but how has she been “discredited?”

Just like the allegations of sexual abuse have been ‘debunked.’

Forget it. Charles. It’s Trumptown.

23
Belafon  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:50:36pm

re: #1 freetoken

My fear, and it is perhaps unwarranted, is that there is a diminishing return here. As more stories come out, perhaps the public will simply turn off this whole collection of revelations about Drumpfskind.

We have already passed that point. I already think Trump needs to disappear. Another story telling me he should disappear doesn’t change anything. At the same time, think of it this way: These women have a right to have their stories heard. And they deserve that all of us continue to be angry at Trump, for not only doing it, but refusing to be in any way sorry for his actions.

24
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:52:04pm

re: #6 makeitstop

And right on cue

Trump and his entire organization are fucking repulsive.

Speaking of “coordinated campaign attack” let’s talk about the dude you flew out to Las Vegas to file a paternity lawsuit against Bill Clinton.

25
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:52:14pm

The Kentucky Supreme Court ruled Thursday that cities such as Louisville and Lexington do not have the authority to raise the minimum wage.

The decision means a November 2015 ordinance passed by the Urban County Council that increased the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour over three years is no longer valid. The first Lexington wage increase took effect July 1, raising the minimum wage from the federal level of $7.25 an hour to $8.20 an hour.

“This morning, the Kentucky Supreme Court struck down Louisville’s minimum wage ordinance,” said Susan Straub, a spokeswoman for the city of Lexington. “This opinion effectively prevents cities, including Lexington, from increasing the minimum wage. Lexington’s local minimum wage ordinance has been invalidated.”

In its 6-1 decision, the court said the Louisville minimum wage ordinance is “invalid and unenforceable” because Louisville did not have the legal authority to set wage floors. The case challenged Louisville’s authority to raise the minimum wage.

26
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:52:55pm

re: #13 Franklin

Libtrad? Is it possible they’re getting dumber??

27
Dave In Austin  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:53:37pm

I was thinking about buying a pillow from this guy. Not now.

28
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:53:41pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

Thanks GOP fuckers.

29
451_Montag  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:53:46pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Well thank fuck for states rights.

//

30
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:54:30pm

re: #21 makeitstop

Not a good idea.

There’s a trial pending. Trump’s lawyers could use any Clinton statement as grounds for a mistrial.

Agreed. But that the media doesn’t report it is a travesty. It’s as much News (more so to me, at least) than the forever being reported server/email bullshit.

31
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:55:37pm

How did this sad clown miss the use of the word Hoax five times?

32
Franklin  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:56:37pm

re: #26 Eclectic Cyborg

Libtrad? Is it possible they’re getting dumber??

That was my screenshot, impersonating a Moran.

33
Kragar  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:58:33pm
34
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:59:01pm

re: #27 Dave In Austin

I was thinking about buying a pillow from this guy. Not now.

[Embedded content]

So was I!

35
Belafon  Oct 20, 2016 • 12:59:32pm

re: #29 451_Montag

Well thank fuck for states rights.

//

State’s rights only apply at the border, not inside, not outside. I see it here in Texas, and the argument goes like this: Cities exist at the convenience of the state, and thus are completely subservient to the state.

36
Belafon  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:00:32pm

Just read: dailykos.com. I can’t add anything else.

37
Timothy Watson  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:00:33pm

re: #35 Belafon

State’s rights only apply at the border, not inside, not outside. I see it here in Texas, and the argument goes like this: Cities exist at the convenience of the state, and thus are completely subservient to the state.

Dillon Rule.

38
jimmyvluv4u  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:01:32pm

re: #34 MsJ

Not surprised… Fox is on all the time at my work and the My Pillow commercials are relentlessly interspersed with the buy gold and doomsday ration ads.

39
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:02:50pm

re: #32 Franklin

That was my screenshot, impersonating a Moran.

Oh dear, I’ve been Poed.

40
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:02:53pm

re: #23 Belafon

We have already passed that point. I already think Trump needs to disappear. Another story telling me he should disappear doesn’t change anything. At the same time, think of it this way: These women have a right to have their stories heard. And they deserve that all of us continue to be angry at Trump, for not only doing it, but refusing to be in any way sorry for his actions.

Thank you.

I mean, sure, everyone’s entitled to their point of view, but it’s getting pretty tiring listening to men* offer their opinion that these women who have been assaulted should sit down and shut up because “it’s distracting” or “diminishing returns” or whatever.

* Not to completely generalize, but I have yet to see this argument made by a woman.

41
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:03:13pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

The use of the word Hoax five times should’ve been a giveaway to this sad clown.

If you say ‘hoax’ 5 times while looking into a mirror Trump appears.

If you say ‘bigley’ 5 times while looking into a toilet Trump crawls out and embraces you.

42
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:03:20pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Embedded content]

This is good news for John McCain Ron Paul John Connally Snidely Whiplash.

43
Bubblehead II  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:04:08pm
44
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:04:41pm

re: #35 Belafon

Try telling that to the RWNJs who say the 10th Amendment allows the states to do practically anything they want.

45
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:04:41pm

re: #10 Dave In Austin

Last 5 days HRC needs to push hard on the underage rape case.

That sketchy case with an anonymous alleged victim and an anonymous alleged witness, organized by extremely suspicious people for reasons not likely to have anything to do with justice?

If Clinton wants to try to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, yes, she should push hard on that case.

46
lawhawk  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:04:52pm

It was a stunt, and Drudge picked it up anyways. Confirmation bias and all that. They don’t care about facts or accuracy - only that it feels right to them.

47
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:05:22pm

Running related:

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

48
Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:05:41pm

re: #46 lawhawk

Oh God don’t tell SMOTI.

49
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:06:16pm

re: #38 jimmyvluv4u

Not surprised… Fox is on all the time at my work and the My Pillow commercials are relentlessly interspersed with the buy gold and doomsday ration ads.

I’m a pillow whore. I have foam pillows, gel pillows, standard, queen and king pillows. I have square and round pillows. Even neck pillows.

This guy definitely lost a sale.

Good.

50
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:06:28pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

“Silent Trump voters” seems very unlikely to me. Loud mouthed assholes who have to have their way (or at least the last word) on absolutely everything aren’t likely to under-poll.

51
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:07:03pm

re: #40 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I didn’t mean to imply that women should not come forward about their assaults.

However, I do think that there is no further impact on Drumpfskind’s voter total by any more claims.

52
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:07:21pm

re: #47 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Running related:

[Embedded content]

WELL DONE!!!!! You have made huge gains since you started IIRC. You Rock!!

RBS

53
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:08:44pm

re: #45 Nyet

That sketchy case with an anonymous alleged victim and an anonymous alleged witness, organized by extremely suspicious people for reasons not likely to have anything to do with justice?

If Clinton wants to try to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, yes, she should push hard on that case.

That case that passed a judge to go to the next stage. That case someone has been saying is so for years.

I agree Clinton shouldn’t discuss it but the media should.

54
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:08:47pm

re: #49 MsJ

I’m a pillow whore. I have foam pillows, gel pillows, standard, queen and king pillows. I have square and round pillows. Even neck pillows.

This guy definitely lost a sale.

Good.

Do you know how hard it is for me not to quote the movie Roxanne here?

55
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:09:16pm

Listening to Boz Scaggs while working away in the shop…. Best.Tune.Ever.

BOZ SCAGGS - LOAN ME A DIME (HD) - Live in Montreal (2013)

(and maybe that can be Trump’s new motto)
RBS

56
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:10:20pm

re: #54 b_sharp

Do you know how hard it is for me not to quote the movie Roxanne here?

I don’t remember the film well.

57
Dave In Austin  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:10:51pm
58
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:10:52pm

re: #49 MsJ

I’m a pillow whore. I have foam pillows, gel pillows, standard, queen and king pillows. I have square and round pillows. Even neck pillows.

This guy definitely lost a sale.

Good.

MrBWS bought one of those pillows.
There isn’t a single thing special or different about them. I’ve gotten better pillows at the Dollar Store.

59
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:11:09pm

re: #27 Dave In Austin

.@MichaelJLindell: “I’m here to give all my credibility to Mr. Donald Trump…He’ll be the most amazing president this country has ever had”

Eyeroll.

60
Weaselone  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:11:19pm

re: #51 freetoken

I didn’t mean to imply that women should not come forward about their assaults.

However, I do think that there is no further impact on Drumpfskind’s voter total by any more claims.

There’s probably no impact on his vote total, but it does help to minimize the amount of time given to Wikileak’s and O’Keef’s election ratfucking attempts by our media.

61
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:11:37pm

re: #53 MsJ

That case that passed a judge to go to the next stage. That case someone has been saying is so for years.

I agree Clinton shouldn’t discuss it but the media should.

I’m not sure I want to hear about Bill’s flights on the Lolita Express till the end of the election, so whether they should or not, I’m relieved that they don’t.

62
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:12:38pm

re: #51 freetoken

I didn’t mean to imply that women should not come forward about their assaults.

However, I do think that there is no further impact on Drumpfskind’s voter total by any more claims.

The hard-core Trump supporters won’t change their minds for anything, but it is clear in this election cycle that we have a block of voters caught between disgust for Trump and their well-trained hatred of Clinton.

Predicting how this block will vote, or what will and won’t make a difference to them is a fool’s errand, IMO. I think Clinton wins no matter what this block does, but I think it is large enough to be significant (e.g., control of Congress).

63
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:12:43pm

re: #56 MsJ

I don’t remember the film well.

Didn’t like it.

64
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:13:29pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

MrBWS bought one of those pillows.
There isn’t a single thing special or different about them. I’ve gotten better pillows at the Dollar Store.

I’m not surprised. I didn’t buy the other night because I always check reviews first. And then I forgot. Glad that happened.

65
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:14:03pm

re: #46 lawhawk

It was a stunt, and Drudge picked it up anyways. Confirmation bias and all that. They don’t care about facts or accuracy - only that it feels right to them.

Bruce Springsteen’s “57 Channels (And Nothin’ On)” seems like it was set in the Middle Ages now.

66
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:15:30pm
67
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:17:23pm

re: #61 Nyet

As for the next stage of the case, there is this opinion (quoted without any guarantee of accuracy of course):

dailykos.com

Villanova Rhodes johanus Oct 15 * 03:11:07 AM
OK, as others downthread have been faster with —

The judge has NOT in any meaningful way “allowed it to go forward” because the case has not reached the stage at which the judge would make any assessment of it. The OD author claiming the judge is convinced “there is more than enough probable cause to move forward” apparently does not understand that “probable cause” is a criminal law concept, not a civil one.

The court issued a routine case management order in a civil case. It’s boilerplate.

The December date is NOT a hearing. It is a status conference, and reflects absolutely no judgment that the case will go forward. It is NOT “hauling Donald Trump into court” — he need not appear. Again, this is routine civil litigation practice that has absolutely nothing to do with the merits. It’s just “you filed; get on with it and don’t screw up our filing-to-disposition stats.” That’s all.

The status conference keeps getting postponed because the plaintiff’s representatives — incompetently or more likely strategically — appear not to have their act together. Withdrawing & re-filing rather than amending, failing to effect service of process, etc., etc. — as soon as they milk it for whatever political mileage they can get out of people talking about Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Clinton, it will likely be withdrawn or dismissed yet again.

Recommended 26 times

68
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:17:36pm

re: #63 Sir John Barron

Didn’t like it.

I thought it was kinda cute. But I couldn’t quote from it.

69
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:17:41pm

re: #27 Dave In Austin

I was thinking about buying a pillow from this guy. Not now.

[Embedded content]

If I had known I would not have bought a pillow from him a long time ago. That being said it is a great pillow.

70
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:18:55pm

re: #40 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Thank you.

I mean, sure, everyone’s entitled to their point of view, but it’s getting pretty tiring listening to men* offer their opinion that these women who have been assaulted should sit down and shut up because “it’s distracting” or “diminishing returns” or whatever.

* Not to completely generalize, but I have yet to see this argument made by a woman.

Trump’s appalling treatment of women is an important part of the truth about Trump and the Republican party. I don’t care if it has reached “diminishing returns” in this particular election.

Trump sees women exclusively as objects to be used for his entertainment, and most Republicans agree with that but won’t say it out loud.

71
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:20:49pm

re: #52 Reality Based Steve

WELL DONE!!!!! You have made huge gains since you started IIRC. You Rock!!

RBS

I’m excited for my half in January. Today was one of the days where things just felt great while out running and I could easily see doing another 5 miles. They’re not all like that, but it was a relief to have one of those since having to cut a run short on Saturday and then wrestling with the side stitch issues continuing on Monday and Tuesday.

9xvI+G5q3UhTb/Rne0SiWFXp8C80+LKtkV+YdsUqUkHQFyHHDoU4WRPKY1swJzKZTmN3HwUCd5/ZSXfXO6/4+wCMgwkfhlsgKJGmsRtp+UVC2ZSS8XdcRV8KoR7DlpGGMTD6vmxwQtQj4NSdOxgmsNl4tPl67idE0Roh9VOAvBQAC3JiUbM5a/AQzVOtifiR0vbT3wi0EenS67LrODKAEPotyduRENfwZl2mhY9rvLfapiu1nLdynh1764ymKs1MSheG4Q6Z90q03xSuIPJ96gvxO2ah6JhqnDfGXRg8e4aHxeRiQHAnlHdJ8cKOixJ+1EnyrQbPyItM2V2uHBp5Jbs7RjoaUmi8Xw6XpnSl9uxmlVLyvTfpIQ35oTECrBXY4i35tbcCIAFcxaCq4dpjPILu46lAp5X3CgPUk+PjnLZlXcDaYBtG3a3+898av3TI9yJpKhT4ChmkEMTsUtzeA3x2qU5JvWn/MQy8TvtHfvGoPI5ERT1xF589s0yVjzgwrNR2YqfQhW+k0pWuhfTJYVSOHhXmrSERuyN998blZUh5rtao23ti08Vkd1nxri3fI44a3hORDhIGeHuvS/8p/e9PyGYRi4Q6k5eUBWF5eh+RUjkT7NTSDzGPQuHrlYR/wdmcqS6J3qrysdo2nS+pNlMmuPOt8w7yeXs/Hci84WWjUDr5iW3V1jLKcyod7L/AsQtw2m8SleZxsWhS0rHdVrHMm7cWFMH+pZOIrqwGeqIp1iWr5Mzm2ItGjS0j9/TUIbcNU36PuyZGmNRQSPXY8vc82gR44TaZgZxjW73ZcLy/G09w2xblJd7wj4VjZH7hz0wcnpJDSJiH6ALfc00WNIodfIcYNrcB9AQGKAqWbI6xVV2EXBZA8oK+5uYgwYlF76wzCqMx9sIlje9CU/VDDV6qesJ4R+drO2rrODG+z4qbKHOQAXIyqv0rqs1odIP9iSXYKRWL+o+0svcHpWdMTlsU27FKWXMkUOsCVDOXcE3K4t3vGrvRqkgVvYakRVJUVEtHXNeeEMa8NTV7h+yz5f66ihVArMCaLEQfmcZMEePNh6Uj/BOdP8qqteE2Gj1uIhdQxXQp7+i7n9p6+QoTUzNeeYupEzd+PdSJZVP91BThy2N8WZPu3/3nx+LkuU/gIzIuRzFvX3YDKYkT9DXODXz+iYffPJM/4o9n230wtnyShKx/I8k0QJ5rsSx4JUMTXolV+HdI/GRFicVPFvLZ5+SLgMHtbiLmH0+1jtWfW/d2V7ly5Li9jgZMnlB3MVB7iVRBwAsWQ6GsRngYJI1JLp9HUkteOAavAh4VphhKTppSRJjmqr1PJgO1Xji63OzMf9IfPTsSFpkOzDAbZrsekIX6UcbCEdZ3byHuI3Zh5SnzJaKalkvSJrkyWzYNcStf

72
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:20:56pm

re: #67 Nyet

Ok. I’ll refrain.

73
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:20:58pm

Switching to my own conspiracy mood, I’m beginning to wonder if the whole Todd and Clare effort was a false flag to portray Assange as the innocent victim of neo-McCarthyite persecution. The operation had obviously been prepared for quite a while, and has some indications of adequate financing, yet it was so amateurish as to be laughable. In particular, it seems to have been designed to fall apart as soon as public attention could be focused on it. For example, it should have been obvious that the Bahamian police would be able to refute a false report in a couple of days, just enough time for the story to go viral before it was just as publicly squashed.
Todd and Clare was ridiculously easy to expose as a front but, again, only after a little time had passed. The CIA and other professionals would never use an empty warehouse as a fake office address, nor would they neglect to register the fake company in the host state. The timing was interesting, since it coincided with the Ecuadorian decision to cut Assange’s access to their official internet portal; ie able to piggyback on the resulting wave of publicity but, again, subject to immediate refutation. As I mentioned in earlier posts, there had been some advance chatter about a conflict between the Ecuadorians and Assange.
Right now, Wikileaks is blaming alleged Clinton supporter David Soloff. Soloff denies involvement and the connection does look tenuous at best and possibly suspect. WikiLeaks claims sham U.S. firm is trying to smear Assange

74
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:22:26pm

Watching the president addressing a rally in Miami on MSNBC, which has a graphic in the lower right corner with a timer with a counter reading 3:39: and counting, along with the caption “Clinton, Trump Share Stage.” Anyone know what that’s about?

75
BlueGrl21  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:23:48pm

I think some people look at these things and think they’re no big deal. So a guy grabbed her arm, touched her breast, paid her some compliment about her legs? What’s the big deal?

It just is.

Being demeaned, touched and grabbed against your will, having no escape, being powerless and not knowing if the guy was going to stop at grabbing or if he was going to rape you, is a big f-ing deal, OK?

It scares the HELL out of you. I don’t mean bad nightmare scared. It’s the knowledge that as a woman you are vulnerable to any man physically stronger than you that is determined to hurt you, assault you, rape you. And if it happens everyone will say it’s your fault. Including you.

And when there’s more than one guy involved, when one is instigating it and showing off for the group, that’s WORSE. Because you don’t know if the whole group is going to turn on you.

I am as tough a woman as it gets. I have worked in places where I was on display for my looks and now I work in a very male-dominated industry. I will go toe-to-toe with anyone. I am damn-near unoffendable. But I can still tell you every time this has happened to me, starting at age 8.

It matters. And I don’t care if 100 women come forward, it’s not about election optics. It’s about them.

76
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:24:30pm

re: #74 De Kolta Chair

Watching the president addressing a rally on MSNBC, which has a graphic in the lower right corner with a timer with a counter reading 3:39 (and counting) “Clinton/Trump Share Stage.” Anyone know what that’s about?

Al Smith dinner tonight.

77
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:24:32pm

re: #72 MsJ

Thanks. For all we know it may be true - certainly would be within Trump’s character and wouldn’t be a surprise. But gambling on it would not be wise. If there’s there there, it will be discovered in due course, after Hillary is President Elect.

78
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:26:06pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

Al Smith dinner tonight.

Oh right, the Sucking Up To The Cardinal Show. Thanks!

79
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:26:50pm

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

Al Smith dinner tonight.

Going to be streamed on CSpan… c-span.org

RBS

80
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:27:13pm

re: #56 MsJ

I don’t remember the film well.

Loved it. It was so over the top.

81
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:28:06pm

re: #68 MsJ

I thought it was kinda cute. But I couldn’t quote from it.

I quote from movies too often.

82
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:28:31pm
83
lawhawk  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:29:01pm

re: #74 De Kolta Chair

Watching the president addressing a rally in Miami on MSNBC, which has a graphic in the lower right corner with a timer with a counter reading 3:39: and counting, along with the caption “Clinton, Trump Share Stage.” Anyone know what that’s about?

Both are scheduled to attend one of the big charity events in NYC/NYS circles - the Gov. Al Smith dinner.

Seeing how others have already answered this, let me add this:

84
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:29:48pm

re: #75 BlueGrl21

I think some people look at these things and think they’re no big deal. So a guy grabbed her arm, touched her breast, paid her some compliment about her legs? What’s the big deal?

It just is.

Being demeaned, touched and grabbed against your will, having no escape, being powerless and not knowing if the guy was going to stop at grabbing or if he was going to rape you, is a big f-ing deal, OK?

It scares the HELL out of you. I don’t mean bad nightmare scared. It’s the knowledge that as a woman you are vulnerable to any man physically stronger than you that is determined to hurt you, assault you, rape you. And if it happens it will be your fault.

I am as tough a woman as it gets. I have worked in places where I was on display for my looks and now I work in a very male-dominated industry. I will go toe-to-toe with anyone. But I can still tell you every time this has happened to me, starting at age 8.

It matters. And I don’t care if 100 women come forward, it’s not about election optics. It’s about them.

I can’t even stand when strangers invade my personal space. If they get too close in the grocery store I ask them to back off. A stranger touching me? Hell fucking no. A stranger touching my boobs or crotch? Minimally a push if not an outright punch. Coupled with a loud “DO NOT TOUCH ME!”

I just can’t fucking even…

Every last one of these women deserves a voice. Every last one.

85
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:30:49pm

re: #81 b_sharp

I quote from movies too often.

So what was the quote you were referring to?

86
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:31:15pm

I’m watching this on CSPAN and it is GREAT!

87
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:31:16pm

re: #82 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Wikileaks is aware that Obama is not up for reelection, right?

88
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:32:27pm

heh! POTUS just took a shot at Rubio.

89
Belafon  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:32:46pm

re: #87 b_sharp

Wikileaks is aware that Obama is not up for reelection, right?

He’s going for his third term. Notice how you never see Obama and Clinton at the same time here on LGF.

90
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:33:19pm

“Donald Trump didn’t start all this stuff. He just what he always does, took it, slapped his name on it, and ran with it.”

91
unproven innocence  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:34:39pm

re: #87 b_sharp

Wikileaks is aware that Obama is not up for reelection, right?

They likely have so much reading material that they may never catch up to the present. :)

92
Targetpractice  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:35:08pm

re: #87 b_sharp

Wikileaks is aware that Obama is not up for reelection, right?

Probably think if they cause the President’s polls to tank, it will reverberate to Hillary.

93
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:35:15pm

“If you made a career out of worshiping Ronald Reagan, where were you when Trump started kissing up to Putin?”

POTUS just mentioned Trump’s bromance with Putin

LOLOLOLOL!

94
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:35:22pm

re: #85 MsJ

So what was the quote you were referring to?

It’s going to hurt. But anyway, here it is:

“Your breasts, they’re like melons. No, no, they’re like pillows. Can I fluff your pillows?”

95
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:36:38pm

oh, POTUS is just ripping the GOP and Trump to shreds.

96
John Carter  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:37:03pm

re: #20 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That is no way to treat your book report.

97
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:37:03pm

POTUS is now in preacher voice mode.

98
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:37:09pm

re: #94 b_sharp

It’s going to hurt. But anyway, here it is:

I looked for a video of it. The lead up to that point is as funny as the previous “I’m afraid of worms Roxanne”

99
bratwurst  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:39:00pm

re: #86 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I’m watching this on CSPAN and it is GREAT!

The POTUS is on fire! Sure hope he can take Rubio down.

100
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:39:40pm

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

Wikileaks’ case against Soloff is based on an alleged link between T&C and a San Franciso address that Soloff’s firm used until about a year ago, and to Soloff having his picture taken with Clinton in January. That’s it.

He (Soloff) denied any connections to the smears or the Clinton campaign.

“Premise is not associated with, has never had dealings with, and has no knowledge of T&C Network Solutions,” Soloff said in an email. “This all appears to tie back to mistaken internet information about a previous office address (redacted-SK) Premise occupied through August 2015 before we outgrew the space and moved to our current San Francisco offices.”

“We have no professional or donor affiliation with any political candidate,” Soloff added. “The picture you refer to was taken at a speaking event near Washington, DC in January or February 2016. I was offered an opportunity to say hello to the candidate and I did so!”

Read more here: mcclatchydc.com

101
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:39:40pm

He’s making the case for people to vote for Murphy over Rubio.

“We have to make it big. We have to leave no doubt. Donald is already whining (about rigged voting).”

102
bratwurst  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:41:11pm
103
Interesting Times  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:41:18pm

re: #99 bratwurst

The POTUS is on fire! Sure hope he can take Rubio down.

If you’ve still got some $ to donate, perhaps you should consider sending some Murphy’s way, because the worse-than-useless DSCC pretty much abandoned him -_-

104
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:41:25pm

“He doesn’t have what it takes to do this job. Because I’m here to tell you, you don’t always get your way.”

105
Jenner7  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:41:32pm

Go POTUS!

106
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:41:36pm

re: #94 b_sharp

It’s going to hurt. But anyway, here it is:

Oy.

107
bratwurst  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:43:20pm

re: #103 Interesting Times

If you’ve still got some $ to donate, perhaps you should consider sending some Murphy’s way, because the worse-than-useless DSCC pretty much abandoned him -_-

I sent a little bit of love Murphy’s way just yesterday!

Anyone else with some spare change to try to rid the body politic of the most spineless stuffed shirt in the Senate? You know what to do.

108
KGxvi  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:43:25pm

re: #50 EPR-radar

“Silent Trump voters” seems very unlikely to me. Loud mouthed assholes who have to have their way (or at least the last word) on absolutely everything aren’t likely to under-poll.

The folks that made up Nixon’s Silent Majority and Reagan’s Democrats are easy to find, go to your local cemetery. There are simply too many good to great polling firms today for us to miss a bunch of voters in the surveys. Now, perhaps, there are some potential voters who are registered but not being counted among likely voters because of the pollster’s methodology, but history has tended to show that missed likely voters tend to be younger and minorities - neither are population groups that Trump is going to be competitive among, let alone win.

109
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:43:55pm

re: #106 MsJ

Oy.

The build up to that point makes it funny. Shows how much of a putz the character is on his own.

110
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:45:08pm

re: #90 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Donald Trump didn’t start all this stuff. He just what he always does, took it, slapped his name on it, and ran with it.”

That’s a really good dig vs. Trump and the Republicans by President Obama.

Trump really is a claim-jumper. Ailes et al. thought they had clear title to the pig people, and Trump comes along as a pied piper of hate to lead the pig people elsewhere.

111
darthstar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:45:09pm

re: #102 bratwurst

I hope she nominates Barack Obama.

112
BeachDem  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:45:20pm

mwioi4+W+XBV9aEKWWDX+f31juo5jnswNNa0dM34piGx3ZSVKNtRIhuAS5cHFZoHAy8XNiBQEfCNCtmgZHViwsJkpwO14HpL77qz1sfiikN8nR/bigld3k4iW7yFOUq9Z7EYGNhZPuEMhEcNvxdD9rYfyZqRqbQIOjNQmbhVEyRMgdGJq6+D17YCspdNzMub1RP5pqDa12fEVfqnTSv4y90+I3MnQXArdhRcw9bTkH/QZzxgUOf1ePDWDQ6zPe5NmyQ8sgZJaJOHqO24XioIJ1FLlnqDqWfymR7hz/QCUuQF4a09BIM+alv/mFszUK49A4YWLdAbMXQ=


Late to the Trump Book Reports, but here goes:

Twitter version: There was this bird, ok? And it was mocking me. So I killed it. The end.

Oh, you mean it had to be a longer book report? OK.

There was this bird, and it was a nasty bird—I think it might have come here illegally from Chyna or Aleppo or Qatar or somewhere in Mexico where they have really nasty birds. So, this illegal bird (might have actually been from the inner city, because I think I saw a little gun tucked under its wing) and it was flying around—probably hired by the Hillary campaign to undermine my candidacy—because it was flying crookedly, just like Hillary is crooked, so it was probably sent there on purpose by Hillary—and there’s probably a reference to it in the wikileaks emails. Buhlieve me.

So anyway, this bird was mocking me—and it seemed to be imitating Hillary’s voice—I’m not sure because my earphones had been tampered with by Hillary’s campaign, but I’m pretty sure it was.

So, because I am so proud of the second amendment and did you know the NRA proudly endorsed me, because I totally believe in the second amendment but Hillary will take all your guns. So I shot that mocking bird, right in the middle of Fifth Avenue—which was difficult as shit, because I was in Cleveland at the time, but I have tremendous aim—huge aim, and the best fire power on earth—believe me.

So the mocking bird is dead, and I have saved America from the imminent threat of mocking birds—making America safe and making
America Great Again. The end—well, not quite the end, because the end will come when I win the presidency bigly and solve all of the world’s problems on day 1.

113
Jay C  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:45:33pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

Probably think if they cause the President’s polls to tank, it will reverberate to Hillary.

And how do they imagine fantasize they are going to do THAT?
My guess is that the Obama WH has extraordinarily tight email protocols in place (Barry’s no dummy) - and unless they have some bizarrely effective hack-fu in place, Wikileaks is unlikely to be able to steal anything outside the most mundane of inter-office memos. And, by this point, I think anything Wikileaks can produce (whether purest Grade-A bullshit or solid gospel truth) is going to make little/no difference to the Presidential race. Like with Trump, I think their “brand” is carbonized….

114
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:46:05pm

Creationist gets called out (in style) in Montana race, does the denial-dance to try and avoid talking about it:

Dinosaurs roar into Montana governor’s race with new ad

[…]

A new television ad features former Montana State University paleontologist Jack Horner saying candidate Greg Gianforte thinks the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Horner says Gianforte supports using taxpayer money to fund “private schools that obscure the truth about dinosaurs and the age of the Earth.”

“He’ll say I’m attacking his religion — I’m not,” Horner says in the ad. “We just need to make sure that our kids learn the truth. I’d think twice about voting for Greg Gianforte.”

[…]

Gianforte does not have an opinion on the Earth’s age, Flint said. Regarding Gianforte’s views on evolution, Flint forwarded a comment made last year by Gianforte in which he said, “I believe young people should be taught how to think, not what to think, and a diversity of views are what should be presented.”

[…]

BOTH SIDES!!!

115
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:46:21pm

re: #111 darthstar

I hope she nominates Barack Obama.

That would really twist up the guts of RWNJs.

116
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:47:29pm

re: #109 b_sharp

The build up to that point makes it funny. Shows how much of a putz the character is on his own.

I remember…the good-looking uber dope. I remember that scene now.

117
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:47:54pm

re: #112 BeachDem

[Embedded content]

Late to the Trump Book Reports, but here goes:

Twitter version: There was this bird, ok? And it was mocking me. So I killed it. The end.

Oh, you mean it had to be a longer book report? OK.

There was this bird, and it was a nasty bird—I think it might have come here illegally from Chyna or Aleppo or Qatar or somewhere in Mexico where they have really nasty birds. So, this illegal bird (might have actually been from the inner city, because I think I saw a little gun tucked under its wing) and it was flying around—probably hired by the Hillary campaign to undermine my candidacy—because it was flying crookedly, just like Hillary is crooked, so it was probably sent there on purpose by Hillary—and there’s probably a reference to it in the wikileaks emails. Buhlieve me.

So anyway, this bird was mocking me—and it seemed to be imitating Hillary’s voice—I’m not sure because my earphones had been tampered with by Hillary’s campaign, but I’m pretty sure it was.

So, because I am so proud of the second amendment and did you know the NRA proudly endorsed me, because I totally believe in the second amendment but Hillary will take all your guns. So I shot that mocking bird, right in the middle of Fifth Avenue—which was difficult as shit, because I was in Cleveland at the time, but I have tremendous aim—huge aim, and the best fire power on earth—believe me.

So the mocking bird is dead, and I have saved America from the imminent threat of mocking birds—making America safe and making
America Great Again. The end—well, not quite the end, because the end will come when I win the presidency bigly and solve all of the world’s problems on day 1.

You channel your inner Trump just a little too accurately.

118
darthstar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:47:54pm
119
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:48:56pm

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

The thought has crossed my mind. Certainly a version to consider, albeit the involvement of WL/JA in such a plot would be highly unlikely, so if it was such a thing, it would have been by some Anon-like admirers/shit-stirrers.

Certainly the evidence against Soloff is laughable: yes, the address was at the website. But if it’s a “Clinton plot”, would it have been there? Of course not.

120
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:49:51pm

re: #82 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I can’t wait until Wikileaks releases all the McCain, Romney, RNC emails.

////

121
Interesting Times  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:50:26pm

re: #118 darthstar

The only thing Rubio’s ever done of value is giving us the trump-small-hands meme.

122
darthstar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:50:35pm
123
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:51:40pm

I’m not sure if I’ll ever get tired of seeing Republicans obliged to state that rigging of elections according to Trump’s delusions is impossible.

It’s going to be so delicious when those video clips are put on infinite loop by opponents of future GOP vote suppression schemes.

124
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:52:22pm

Does anyone else here get tired of asking herself/himself:

“If I were me, where would I have put that?”

125
De Kolta Chair  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:52:24pm

re: #122 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Love how he slapped the side of the podium at the end. Fired up and rarin’ to go!

126
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:52:50pm

re: #121 Interesting Times

The only thing Rubio’s ever done of value is giving us the trump-small-hands meme.

Which is a tiny bit of entertainment having no real value. So the Rubio = 0 thesis is not disproved by this.

127
Jay C  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:53:32pm

re: #115 b_sharp
re: #111 darthstar

I hope she nominates Barack Michelle Obama.

That would really twist up the guts of RWNJs.

Even better.

128
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:54:06pm

re: #122 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Shut up shut up!!! Ur not supposed to campaign!!

129
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:54:32pm

re: #114 freetoken

I’d pay good money to see a creationist get nailed hard on this point: How is it useful diversity to include both science and nonsense in a science class?

130
KGxvi  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:54:45pm

re: #111 darthstar

I hope she nominates Barack Obama.

I know Taft became Chief Justice after leaving the White House, but that was a different era. Today, I wonder if it could work, simply because of how many cases the former president would have to recuse himself from - we’ve seen it with Kagan and other new justices where they either worked on the case or heard the case at the lower level; what would Obama’s obligation to recuse himself be on cases involving laws he signed?

131
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:54:46pm

re: #122 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Gonna miss that man.

132
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:55:32pm

re: #131 makeitstop

Gonna miss that man.

So is our PM, Justin Trudeau

133
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:55:59pm

re: #115 b_sharp

That would really twist up the guts of RWNJs.

Which would make it that much more delicious.

134
OhNoZombies!  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:57:22pm

re: #131 makeitstop

Gonna miss that man.

I already miss him.
Hell, at this point, I miss Mitt Romney, and I didn’t even like him.

135
darthstar  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:58:02pm
136
Sherlock Hound  Oct 20, 2016 • 1:58:44pm

re: #40 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Thank you.

I mean, sure, everyone’s entitled to their point of view, but it’s getting pretty tiring listening to men* offer their opinion that these women who have been assaulted should sit down and shut up because “it’s distracting” or “diminishing returns” or whatever.

* Not to completely generalize, but I have yet to see this argument made by a woman.

In that same vein, as a man, I was very distressed at the thinking I saw in a thread downstairs about Hillary and Bill. The reasoning was that they should have divorced for “optics” reasons, as I understand it.

That’s just wrong.

Donald Trump and the GOP, their officials and base alike, are maximalists.

They would no more accept a divorced Hillary than they do a married Hillary.

They would still hang Bill around her neck.

And cause much misery to Chelsea, and her parents. I was around when Rush called her a dog. He doesn’t feel any differently today.

I have worked with municipal politicians, and I have always gotten more respect treating them as humans, rather than political automations defined by “optics”. I have too much respect for Hillary than to even think about, let alone question, her private life.

137
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:00:10pm

Overheard today;

“Hillary won’t make a good President. She compromises. Trump won’t compromise with anybody. That’s what we need.”

/SMH

RBS

138
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:01:26pm

re: #131 makeitstop

Gonna miss that man.

In a way, yes. But something tells me he’s not going anywhere and will stick around as an “elder statesman” for a loooong time (he’s 55), so I’m not saying “good bye, will miss you”. ;) Plus he’ll have a great replacement. These two considerations make it all better.

139
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:01:55pm

re: #137 Reality Based Steve

Overheard today;

“Hillary won’t make a good President. She compromises. Trump won’t compromise with anybody. That’s what we need.”

/SMH

RBS

“Trump will just get things done, make people do things. Anything to get that tyrant executive-order issuing Obama out of the WH.”

/

140
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:02:29pm

re: #132 b_sharp

So is our PM, Justin Trudeau

I love me some Justin, and not in any way because of his looks. He’s doing better than anyone expected. He has a great voice (text/subtext) and uses it well.

141
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:02:39pm

re: #137 Reality Based Steve

Overheard today;

“Hillary won’t make a good President. She compromises. Trump won’t compromise with anybody. That’s what we need.”

/SMH

RBS

The Art of the Deal for Dummies.

142
KGxvi  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:03:11pm

re: #135 darthstar

funny because I was just hearing the “well, the DNC/DSCC has pulled funding for Murphy’s campaign.” I’m guessing having Obama go after your opponent is going to help, as will Clinton’s GOTV efforts.

143
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:03:21pm

Its that time of year again, when health care plans get published.

My premiums will probably not go up a whole lot, but I know people who will be forced off of old policies because they are getting too expensive.

And then there are cases around the country where ACA created plans are going to see large jumps, and some states like Minnesota are waving a red flag over their crisis.

Health care is a subject that was not served well in this election.

And I think the Presidential debate commission did a lousy job in really setting up the discussion. Why they don’t insist, publicly, that the candidates are forced to be presented with facts as determined by large professional bodies is a massive failing. Somebody like Wallace should not say they are not doing fact checking. That is just the opposite of what is needed.

My own issue is with retirement and how long I will live. None of us know when our time is up, but going by my ancestors/family I should have a decent chance of getting to be very old. Past the time when SS is expected to be in dire problems, and SS is part of my retirement planning.

The debates should have included charts from the SS trustees on the reality of SS and Medicare, and confront the candidates and the public with the reality that our increased lifespans demand that some changes are made.

Now, you might counter that this year facts are irrelevant, given the Drumpfskind’s campaign is fact-free from the start.

Well, that’s sad. Really sad. Americans need to know that there taxes have to be raised, even a small bit, to continue with both the retirement programs (SS and Medicare) and to fund the entitlements.

We need a more progressive income tax. And we need as a society to not let fictional entities (corporations) dump their responsibilities upon the whole society.

144
BeachDem  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:04:04pm

An observation by Steve Schmidt (not a favorite of mine, but credit where it is due) still cracks me up:

He was like an old man in the park feeding squirrels arguing with himself on the question of Mosul.

145
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:04:13pm

re: #138 Nyet

In a way, yes. But something tells me he’s not going anywhere and will stick around as an “elder statesman” for a loooong time (he’s 55), so I’m not saying “good bye, will miss you”. ;) Plus he’ll have a great replacement. These two considerations make it all better.

All true.

I love seeing him on the stump. I guess I’ll have to content myself with seeing him campaign every four years, for whichever Democrat he helps to win.

146
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:04:30pm

re: #140 MsJ

I love me some Justin, and not in any way because of his looks. He’s doing better than anyone expected. He has a great voice (text/subtext) and uses it well.

After that abomination whats-his-name, our previous PM, Trudeau is a breath of fresh air.

147
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:06:28pm

re: #139 Sir John Barron

“Trump will just get things done, make people do things. Anything to get that tyrant executive-order issuing Obama out of the WH.”

/

This was my one bitch about Hillary at the debates; she needed to give a Civics 101 about her not doing things trump expected her alone to do. This is not a dictatorship. She needed to dumb that down to his base.

148
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:07:35pm

re: #135 darthstar

[Embedded content]

And lest we forget, Rubio was no prize this past Spring, basically accusing Obama of Treason, for some unknown reason.

149
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:09:29pm

re: #145 makeitstop

All true.

I love seeing him on the stump. I guess I’ll have to content myself with seeing him campaign every four years, for whichever Democrat he helps to win.

And if the Dems are lucky, maybe even every 2 years…

150
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:10:54pm

A lawyer for the Republican National Committee sent a letter on the issue Wednesday to RNC members, the Wall Street Journal reported. The letter cites a 1982 consent decree the RNC agreed to after Democrats sued it for activities at polling places that they said were aimed at suppressing the minority vote.

151
majii  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:11:20pm

re: #123 EPR-radar

According to TPM, Fox News is now saying that voter fraud is very rare in the U.S., and I attribute it to Trump’s claim that American elections are “rigged.” I also cannot forget the amount of time Fox invested in linking voter fraud to the need for more stringent Voter ID laws. I’m enjoying seeing GOPers having to admit that the Voter ID laws they have passed actually had nothing to do with voter fraud. They’re being exposed as the liars they’ve always been.
talkingpointsmemo.com

152
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:11:44pm

re: #150 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Oh well, sucks for those gun-toting yahoos who want to suppress Democratic votes in inner cities.

153
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:12:06pm

re: #147 MsJ

This was my one bitch about Hillary at the debates; she needed to give a Civics 101 about her not doing things trump expected her alone to do. This is not a dictatorship. She needed to dumb that down to his base.

It runs the risk of sounding like making excuses. The run-down of her activities in those years, compared to his, was more effective.

154
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:12:52pm

re: #146 b_sharp

After that abomination whats-his-name, our previous PM, Trudeau is a breath of fresh air.

I disliked Harper but my MIL despised him.

Have I mentioned my mother in law is one hell of an amazing woman? As was her mother. I’ve married into a phenomenal family of spectacular women.

Example: Grand MIL brought the union into this little burg and the stories about her are amazing.

155
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:16:09pm

re: #153 Blind Frog Belly White

It runs the risk of sounding like making excuses. The run-down of her activities in those years, compared to his, was more effective.

I get what you’re saying but Obama c.2007 pointed out that it takes all of us and I’d have liked to see something to that effect.

156
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:16:19pm

Tiny Hand Will Be Your New Comic Sans

WE CAN HAZ TRUMP TAG WITH TRUMP TINY HANDS FONT? (until Nov. 9th…)

157
Jay C  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:18:02pm

re: #147 MsJ

This was my one bitch about Hillary at the debates; she needed to give a Civics 101 about her not doing things trump expected her alone to do. This is not a dictatorship. She needed to dumb that down to his base.

Agree. With all due respect to re: #153 Blind Frog Belly White, this was a point Trump kept bringing up, and one which I also think should have been peremptorily dismissed. And with a mention of just WHO had control (if intermittent) of the House and Senate during Hillary Clinton’s tenure. (clue: they call themselves the Grand Old Party)

158
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:19:30pm

re: #157 Jay C

Agree. With all due respect to , this was a point Trump kept bringing up, and one which I also think should have been peremptorily dismissed. And with a mention of just WHO had control (if intermittent) of the House and Senate during Hillary Clinton’s tenure. (clue: they call themselves the Grand Old Party)

I think there was one time I believe in the second debate where she pointed out that she did vote for some of the stuff that Trump derided her for not doing and that Bush vetoed it. But yeah it was frustrating watching Trump act like every single bad thing that has happened in the past 30 years was Hillary Clinton’s fault.

159
petesh  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:20:19pm

re: #111 darthstar

I hope she nominates Barack Obama.

I’ll leave it to her which feminist under fifty she actually nominates, but I hope she introduces the pick something like:

My first choice, unfortunately, turned me down because she’d just spent eight years living in the White House. My second choice was her husband, but he didn’t want the grief. …

160
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:20:36pm

I hope to hell Mmmrle (sp?) is at the Michelle Obama rally.

161
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:24:09pm

re: #160 Stanley Sea

Mirele/mmmirele

162
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:26:03pm

some video:

163
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:26:49pm
164
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:27:10pm

re: #157 Jay C

Agree. With all due respect to , this was a point Trump kept bringing up, and one which I also think should have been peremptorily dismissed. And with a mention of just WHO had control (if intermittent) of the House and Senate during Hillary Clinton’s tenure. (clue: they call themselves the Grand Old Party)

Explaining how one senator can’t unilaterally dictate Federal law is a civics version of getting trapped into explaining basic science to a creationist.

The creationist doesn’t care, because he’s the pigeon that will crap all over your chessboard instead of making normal moves.

The spectators are apt to be turned off because 1) if you are explaining you are losing and 2) point #1 is especially bad if you get struck trying to explain the self-evident.

165
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:27:13pm

Flotus is bringing down the house.

166
Sir John Barron  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:29:00pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Flotus is bringing down the house.

I wonder what the comment section over at Trump Campaign, I mean, Breitbart, looks like right about now.

167
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:31:15pm
168
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:33:33pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Flotus is bringing down the house.

and CNN cuts away to its talking head panel.

Dana Bash: “We were wondering where she is.”
STFU!
*spit*

169
BlueGrl21  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:34:35pm

It is joyful for me to watch Pres. O on the campaign trail. He is completely out of fucks to give and it is his job to troll the hell out of every Republican that made his life hell for 8 years. He doesn’t have to try and “work with Congress” any more and he has ALWAYS loved to goad Trump.

What a fitting, beautiful end to the past 8 years. He can’t smile bigger.

170
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:36:42pm
171
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:37:09pm

re: #166 Sir John Barron

I wonder what the comment section over at Trump Campaign, I mean, Breitbart, looks like right about now.

I have never read the comments at Breitbart, and I never will. However, I am confident in this prediction:

Those comments look like an attempt to clear a city-wide sewer line blockage using dynamite and grenades (as always).

172
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:37:11pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

We’re the nobodies
Wanna be somebodies
We’re dead,
We know just who we are

173
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:37:39pm
174
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:37:56pm
175
jaunte  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:38:23pm

re: #173 Charles Johnson

NEW!

176
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:38:41pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Oh snap. He’s right though.

177
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:38:46pm

Had a quick email back and forth with my Dad today.

Reality Based Steve: “You have to admit, Trump went into the debate with nothing to lose”

Reality Based Stu: (My Dad) “But yet, he even managed to lose that”.

RBS

178
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:39:25pm

re: #177 Reality Based Steve

Had a quick email back and forth with my Dad today.

Reality Based Steve: “You have to admit, Trump went into the debate with nothing to lose”

Reality Based Stu: (My Dad) “But yet, he even managed to lose that”.

RBS

Dad with the shot from downtown. Nice one.

179
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:39:26pm
180
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:40:18pm
181
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:40:51pm
182
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:41:20pm

So this guy @NewFreedomFight just added me to four lists on Twitter:

Certified Lying Hacks
Sick & Twisted Fucks (The most vile, twisted, evil creeps)
Dumbass
Goat-Fuckers-4-Mohammed

Something tells me he’s not going to be my special friend.

183
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:41:25pm

There’s a nutty article at Inquisitr talking about “wikileaks deniers”, whatever it is. Best sentence:

This has left them with no recourse but to either put on their tinfoil hats and blame the whole thing on an elaborate conspiracy by the Kremlin or to espouse the even nuttier position of attempting to cast doubt upon the unassailable integrity of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks.

184
Jay C  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:42:50pm

re: #177 Reality Based Steve

Had a quick email back and forth with my Dad today.

Reality Based Steve: “You have to admit, Trump went into the debate with nothing to lose”

Reality Based Stu: (My Dad) “But yet, he even managed to lose that”.

RBS

Heh. + infinity……

185
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:43:32pm

re: #181 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

They’re getting “Out-Reaganed” again heh.

186
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:44:18pm
187
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:45:20pm

Instagram

Let’s just leave this here; food for thought..
#wikileaks

Says every Holocaust denier.

188
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:45:27pm

re: #177 Reality Based Steve

Had a quick email back and forth with my Dad today.

Reality Based Steve: “You have to admit, Trump went into the debate with nothing to lose”

Reality Based Stu: (My Dad) “But yet, he even managed to lose that”.

RBS

The sheer incompetence of the GOP this cycle still floors me when I take the time to think about it.

1) Trump was a clown show from day 1 of the primaries, and the party and other candidates never found a way to deal with that.

2) Trump as a candidate is the Platonic Ideal of idiocy. I don’t believe his candidacy is a fake run designed to throw the election to Clinton, but I really can’t think of anything he would have done differently if it were.

A Star Wars equivalent would be Vader landing at the death star turning into a 3 stooges cream pie skit by the stormtroopers with Vader stepping on a dozen rakes in a row as the sideshow.

189
Dr. Matt  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:45:39pm
190
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:46:13pm

Again, FLOTUS is totally not mentioning Trump’s name.

191
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:47:32pm

re: #187 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Says every Holocaust denier.

That’s a stupid and overly simplistic way of looking at it. People want to stop him in good part since he releases information that can and does endanger people. Assenge is no hero of mine.

192
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:48:28pm
193
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:48:47pm

re: #186 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Scary man

194
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:48:54pm

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Damn straight Michelle.

195
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:49:06pm

re: #157 Jay C

Agree. With all due respect to , this was a point Trump kept bringing up, and one which I also think should have been peremptorily dismissed. And with a mention of just WHO had control (if intermittent) of the House and Senate during Hillary Clinton’s tenure. (clue: they call themselves the Grand Old Party)

Or, you know, “Why didn’t I change the Federal tax laws as First Lady of Arkansas? Or as FLOTUS? Or Secretary of State? You get that none of those has actual legislative power, right?”

196
Dr. Matt  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:49:38pm

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

We’re going to have a shortage of operable mics with all this dropping going on.

197
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:50:29pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

Plus the logic is pure shit. Silencing someone because of their lies makes perfect sense.

198
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:51:35pm

re: #143 freetoken

My health insurance is going up a whopping 2.2% next year. A big relief. It has been going up at a much slower rate since the ACA passed than it did before.
I really don’t think people should have to hold their breath until the new rates come out. Single payer seems like a plan, or maybe something like the Swiss have.
However, I think healthcare is a far too complex subject for the debates as they are currently constituted. A real discussion as needed.

The same is probably true for Social Security. I will just say that there have been claims that SS is about to go bankrupt for many decades. My father-in-law told people he didn’t think it would be there for him. It was (back in the ’80s.) I have a nephew whose father didn’t think it would be there for him (he unfortunately passed away but it was there for my nephew’s mother in the 2000s.) And he (in his 40s) doesn’t think he’ll get it. I’m pretty sure he will.
We’ll have to tweak it a bit, but I think it will be there.

199
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:52:39pm

re: #197 Nyet

Plus the logic is pure shit. Silencing someone because of their lies makes perfect sense.

Exactly. Someone who spreads lies can can arguably be more dangerous than someone who spreads truth.

200
Dr. Matt  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:52:56pm
201
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:53:21pm

Rigged elections? Nasty woman? Trump’s scorched earth tactics have little upside

[…]

Michael Sopko, 63, a mortgage broker from Denver and a Trump backer, said before the debate that he sees his vote as pointless.

“They have already been corrupted,” he said of voting machines, speaking ahead of a Trump rally in Colorado Springs. “I think the results are already cast.”

Drumpf-marks.

202
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:53:52pm

re: #200 Dr. Matt

[Embedded content]

But he’s a blue collar billionaire. //

203
HappyWarrior  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:54:30pm

re: #201 freetoken

Rigged elections? Nasty woman? Trump’s scorched earth tactics have little upside

Drumpf-marks.

So glad my Dad isn’t like this. He’s around the same age but he sees right through Trump.

204
majii  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:54:45pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

” People want to stop him in good part since he releases information that can and does endanger people.”

And, Ecuador has to consider the effects of permitting Assange to release info that interferes with another nation’s elections/affairs. Ecuador has to deal with other countries, Assange doesn’t, so I think it’s natural for it to place its national interests above Assange’s interests. The Ecuadoran Embassy gave no impression that it was kicking him out and only stated that his access to the internet has been temporarily suspended.

205
No Depression  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:55:15pm

Heh.

206
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:56:02pm

> he sees his vote as pointless.

Cool, stay home, kthxbai.

207
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:57:27pm
208
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:58:56pm

re: #186 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Somebody needs a nap.

209
whitebeach  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:59:14pm

re: #65 De Kolta Chair

Bruce Springsteen’s “57 Channels (And Nothin’ On)” seems like it was set in the Middle Ages now.

It was. His and mine.

210
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:59:31pm

1AjujLYKcGSnK9tl2ydboXGTuCIPCatGH5+nrTCktnK3TTQENdarSj2TY60ccTBP

211
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 2:59:39pm

re: #198 calochortus

My health insurance seems invariant to almost anything. For the past several years it has creeped up by a few percent per year, and I expect the same this year. However, many years ago it did go through a period of higher inflation.

As for SS - the trustees publish a very lengthy report. In it they detail the inflexion point (when the deposits can not keep up with the increasing payouts.) It’s not that big of a mystery, really. SS as designed only works when the labor pool can grow, unless the life-spans of retirees do not increase. I know people like to claim, and Facebook is full of these memes, that SS is not an entitlement and that what retirees receive they already paid in, but that latter claim is true only when you die on schedule. If you live longer than expected, you’re actually drawing out more than you could ever have paid in. Someone who draws SS for 30 years after working 25 years (or at least contributing for 25 years) really is living off the work of others. In the big picture this is supposed to balance out by those who die early, but given our life-extensions with modern medicine that has changed.

212
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:00:26pm

re: #156 Nyet

Tiny Hand Will Be Your New Comic Sans

WE CAN HAZ TRUMP TAG WITH TRUMP TINY HANDS FONT? (until Nov. 9th…)

I sent that to Maddow.

213
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:01:03pm

re: #207 Backwoods_Sleuth

This business of Trump’s vision utterly laking in hope is important, IMO, and applies to the US conservative movement as a whole. You don’t make a utopia out of a fictionalized past if you have any hope for the future.

214
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:01:49pm

Great America PAC/Trump ad on CNN just now: call this 800 number and vote for who you want to see as next president. We need 5 million votes to send a message to Hillary Clinton supporters. If you’ve already voted, call again (!!!!)

Such a scientific and totally fair poll!

215
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:02:54pm

One of the toughest nuts to crack in American politics is convincing SS recipients that they are participating in socialism.

216
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:06:04pm

re: #215 freetoken

One of the toughest nuts to crack in American politics is convincing SS recipients that they are participating in socialism.

The other nut is convincing Medicare recipients that they’re receiving socialized medicine.

Just ask Ronald Reagan, ca. 1965. According to him, I managed to live my first 9 years when men were still free!

217
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:06:19pm

re: #215 freetoken

One of the toughest nuts to crack in American politics is convincing SS recipients that they are participating in socialism.

Another fact that is very difficult to deal with is that any health care system other than letting people die is the street for inability to pay medical bills is going to have something that could be referred to as ‘death panels’.

218
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:06:29pm

re: #187 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Says every Holocaust denier.

Julian has just told us why he won’t tell the truth about Putin.

219
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:07:04pm

re: #177 Reality Based Steve

Had a quick email back and forth with my Dad today.

Reality Based Steve: “You have to admit, Trump went into the debate with nothing to lose”

Reality Based Stu: (My Dad) “But yet, he even managed to lose that”.

RBS

I *had* to steal that!

220
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:07:13pm

re: #211 freetoken

All true. But if we need more money for SS, we can get it out of the general fund if we want. I just don’t see where there is much more room for tweaking the retirement age, since payments are already based on a retirement age of 66-67 not 65. That means people who do hard physical work, or are in poor health are stuck taking a lower monthly payment if they can’t work past 65. I’m guessing this hits the people who are least likely to have savings or 401Ks, much less pensions to supplement their SS.

221
CuriousLurker  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:07:38pm

So Stein is going with the antisemitic dog whistles now? All the dogs heard it and showed up to reply…

222
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:07:50pm

campaign says there were 7,000 at Michelle’s rally in Arizona.

Also, pointing out the importance of every single vote, she noted that Barack would have won AZ if there had been 63 more votes for him at each precinct.

223
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:08:18pm

We’re winning, but these last weeks before the election day may be dangerous in a way.
Plenty of forces out there wishing to destabilize the situation in order to make Hillary lose. Not only the far-right fringe, but also ISIS and Putin would love to see Trump as president, all for different reasons.

224
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:08:54pm

re: #215 freetoken

One of the toughest nuts to crack in American politics is convincing SS recipients that they are participating in socialism.

Yeah, my aunt used to go on about that, until my Mom sat her down and showed her the numbers. We didn’t hear that talking point again (to her credit, I believe my aunt’s mind was truly changed. She was a perfectly intelligent woman.)

225
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:09:40pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

So this guy @NewFreedomFight just added me to four lists on Twitter:

Certified Lying Hacks
Sick & Twisted Fucks (The most vile, twisted, evil creeps)
Dumbass
Goat-Fuckers-4-Mohammed

Something tells me he’s not going to be my special friend.

I’m so glad you mentioned the block/unblock fix. I use that all the time now.

226
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:10:01pm
227
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:10:45pm

re: #198 calochortus

The same is probably true for Social Security. I will just say that there have been claims that SS is about to go bankrupt for many decades. My father-in-law told people he didn’t think it would be there for him. It was (back in the ’80s.) I have a nephew whose father didn’t think it would be there for him (he unfortunately passed away but it was there for my nephew’s mother in the 2000s.) And he (in his 40s) doesn’t think he’ll get it. I’m pretty sure he will.
We’ll have to tweak it a bit, but I think it will be there.

Maybe it will still be there, but as I do my retirement planning (as one of the younger Lizards), I’m not counting on it.

I’ll happily take it as bonus money and reduce the amount I have to pull out of my investments, meaning they can last longer, but nowhere do I plan on having an income of $x from SS.

228
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:10:58pm
229
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:11:41pm

re: #220 calochortus

One approach is to not put a limit on the upper income that can taxed for the SS payroll tax.

And, the retirement age has not yet been changed the amount you state, I believe; it’s a proposal. There was a change in early retirement, IIRC. A while back I posted a link to the SS trustees’ latest report, and that will have the answers. But now I have to run out the door… will have to look at this later.

The bottom line is that the current payroll tax may have to be increased, a little. It doesn’t have to go up much to get SS a few more decades.

230
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:11:54pm

This is the weirdest infographic you will see all day

231
BadgerB  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:12:23pm

re: #220 calochortus

All true. But if we need more money for SS, we can get it out of the general fund if we want. I just don’t see where there is much more room for tweaking the retirement age, since payments are already based on a retirement age of 66-67 not 65. That means people who do hard physical work, or are in poor health are stuck taking a lower monthly payment if they can’t work past 65. I’m guessing this hits the people who are least likely to have savings or 401Ks, much less pensions to supplement their SS.

Also lost in the conservation is the fact that the ‘living longer’ mostly applies to the white collar workers who have more saved for retirement and spent most of their lives on health insurance. Life expectancy at 65 for blue collar workers has gone up only slightly (less than covered by the increase already made to retirement age). We are basically taking from the physical workers and poorer women to help fund longer more generous retirements for upper middle class and above workers.

232
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:12:45pm

re: #229 freetoken

One approach is to not put a limit on the upper income that can taxed for the SS payroll tax.

And, the retirement age has not yet been changed the amount you state, I believe; it’s a proposal. There was a change in early retirement, IIRC. A while back I posted a link to the SS trustees’ latest report, and that will have the answers. But now I have to run out the door… will have to look at this later.

The bottom line is that the current payroll tax may have to be increased, a little. It doesn’t have to go up much to get SS a few more decades.

I’m pretty sure that as the rules are right now, you receive lower benefits if you begin claiming them at 65, versus if you can defer filing for benefits until age 70.

233
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:13:03pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

It’s disgusting that a perfectly reasonable observation about US media concentration can function as a dog whistle for the Nazis like that.

That makes it remarkably difficult to do anything about the media concentration.

234
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:14:01pm

re: #227 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Maybe it will still be there, but as I do my retirement planning (as one of the younger Lizards), I’m not counting on it.

I’ll happily take it as bonus money and reduce the amount I have to pull out of my investments, meaning they can last longer, but nowhere do I plan on having an income of $x from SS.

I’ve been paying into SS since 1965. And ever since then I’ve been hearing SS would be bankrupt long before I would be able to collect a dime at retirement.
I am now preparing my paperwork to start drawing benefits next summer.

235
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:14:09pm

re: #229 freetoken

One approach is to not put a limit on the upper income that can taxed for the SS payroll tax.

And, the retirement age has not yet been changed the amount you state, I believe; it’s a proposal. There was a change in early retirement, IIRC. A while back I posted a link to the SS trustees’ latest report, and that will have the answers. But now I have to run out the door… will have to look at this later.

The bottom line is that the current payroll tax may have to be increased, a little. It doesn’t have to go up much to get SS a few more decades.

Social security is by far the easier system to finance, compared to Medicare and health care in general.

236
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:14:55pm

re: #210 Nyet

toFFAOU9Vlp7GdO/ervyNcAPZrNxp5VieKUz4RX8OlIHUeCCd7onGVWEN2SKSZAlcE+JZeS3gWdK+NvDPRDFyNPcmg2Fezd5

237
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:15:25pm

re: #227 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Maybe it will still be there, but as I do my retirement planning (as one of the younger Lizards), I’m not counting on it.

I’ll happily take it as bonus money and reduce the amount I have to pull out of my investments, meaning they can last longer, but nowhere do I plan on having an income of $x from SS.

We did our retirement planning that way-and we can hold off starting payments until Mr. C. is 70 to maximize payments (we both come from long-lived families, so we think this is our best bet.) But we are privileged, so this isn’t going to work for everyone.

238
Jay C  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:16:09pm

re: #234 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ve been paying into SS since 1965. And ever since then I’ve been hearing SS would be bankrupt long before I would be able to collect a dime at retirement.
I am now preparing my paperwork to start drawing benefits next summer.

Heh. Old Jewish saying: “You should only live so long…..

239
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:16:29pm

re: #232 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m pretty sure that as the rules are right now, you receive lower benefits if you begin claiming them at 65, versus if you can defer filing for benefits until age 70.

The 70 year old thing is for a bonus in delayed payout:

Social Security’s full-benefit retirement age is increasing gradually because of legislation passed by Congress in 1983. Traditionally, the full benefit age was 65, and early retirement benefits were first available at age 62, with a permanent reduction to 80 percent of the full benefit amount. Currently, the full benefit age is 66 for people born in 1943-1954, and it will gradually rise to 67 for those born in 1960 or later. Early retirement benefits will continue to be available at age 62, but they will be reduced more. When the full-benefit age reaches 67, benefits taken at age 62 will be reduced to 70 percent of the full benefit and benefits first taken at age 65 will be reduced to 86.7 percent of the full benefit.

There is a financial bonus for delayed retirement.
An individual reaching the full-benefit age in 2015 (66 years old) receives an additional 8 percent benefit for each year he or she delays collecting benefits. If he or she delays taking benefits until age 70, the benefit will be 32 percent higher because of that delay. The maximum retirement benefit for someone who waits until age 70 to collect benefits is $3,501 a month in 2015.

240
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:17:38pm

re: #229 freetoken

One approach is to not put a limit on the upper income that can taxed for the SS payroll tax.

And, the retirement age has not yet been changed the amount you state, I believe; it’s a proposal. There was a change in early retirement, IIRC. A while back I posted a link to the SS trustees’ latest report, and that will have the answers. But now I have to run out the door… will have to look at this later.

The bottom line is that the current payroll tax may have to be increased, a little. It doesn’t have to go up much to get SS a few more decades.

Yes, the retirement age has been changed. Mr. C. was eligible at 66.

241
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:17:40pm

Anyway, these are important topics, far beyond the reach of Drumpfskind to discuss. Biden is right.

242
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:19:40pm

re: #240 calochortus

sJ1l48dc8zuE+EXMGtY9cAZuv/yaKu/IXJIi84+INazU9IEBjKVnJZM1xCES/ggqerHwg8/bZDSoz6Z0UOfozfrVGY01gH6wjymGq1eHzLk=

243
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:19:47pm

re: #232 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m pretty sure that as the rules are right now, you receive lower benefits if you begin claiming them at 65, versus if you can defer filing for benefits until age 70.

My “full retirement age” for SS is 65.
For MrBWS, who is younger than I am, the “full retirement age” is 66 years, 2 months. He can retire at age 62, but the benefits are much reduced. He can also hold off until age 70 for a higher benefit.
He’s going to try to hang on for the 66 years, 2 months.

244
Brian J.  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:19:57pm

re: #13 Franklin

Repost from downstairs:

[Embedded content]

Hell, if Madonna knows it, it’s probably not a national security secret.

245
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:20:04pm

re: #6 makeitstop

Not true. Polls show that most people believe the victims. The problem for Trump is that he’s on record boasting about sexually assaulting women. Why would we not believe women who come forward to validate Trump’s boast?

246
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:20:06pm

re: #239 freetoken

In that bit you helpfully cite, it says that the retirement age is going to be 67 for those born in 1960 or later.

Sounds like the rule change has already been made, it’s just a matter of people catching up to it.

247
No Depression  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:20:12pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

So Stein is going with the antisemitic dog whistles now? All the dogs heard it and showed up to reply…

[Embedded content]

I’m not usually one to defend Jill Stein, but I don’t think she’s being anti-Semitic here. Media concentration is a legitimate concern. FWIW, Stein is ethnically Jewish, so there’s a possibility those nasty tweets might be intended to harass her.

248
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:20:33pm

before the debate, chris wallace said he wanted to be a moderator. it wasnt his job to check facts.

at that time i asked, to the lizards, what if trump lies to chris’s face. what would he do?

apparently trump did lie to chris. i didnt watch the debate.

its buried in this story at dkos

right after trump said he never met putin (a whole separate pinocchio)

T: Because our country cannot afford to defend Saudi Arabia, Japan, Germany, South Korea, and many other places. We cannot continue to afford. She took that as saying nuclear weapons.

Wallace: Okay .

Trump: Look. She’s been proven to be a liar on so many different ways. This is just another lie.

Clinton: Well, I’m just quoting you when-

Trump: There is no quote. You won’t find a quote from me.

Clinton: Nuclear competition in Asia. You said go ahead. Enjoy yourselves, folks.

Trump didn’t just say Japan should get nukes. He said it to Chris Wallace in an interview back in March or April. And last night Wallace let his denial slide with a simple “okay.”

heres the video of the interview:

Trump not worried about more countries getting nukes

t: maybe they would in fact be better off if they defend themselves from North Korea
w: with nukes?
t: including with nukes, yes, including with nukes.

trump lied directly to clinton “there is no quote”
so did wallace not remember he had this interview and trump said this?
or did he consciously let it pass because, you know, “moderator”

either way. not quality work

249
TedStriker  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:21:37pm

re: #183 Nyet

There’s a nutty article at Inquisitr talking about “wikileaks deniers”, whatever it is. Best sentence:

250
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:21:39pm

re: #239 freetoken

So, I shouldn’t have brought up the 70 age-you still have to wait to 66-67 to get your full amount if you were born in 1943 or after.

251
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:21:59pm

re: #248 dangerman

This is a man who says something one day and then lies about having said it the very next day. It’s almost like he cannot remember what comes out of his mouth. So presidential.

252
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:22:30pm

re: #241 freetoken

Anyway, these are important topics, far beyond the reach of Drumpfskind to discuss. Biden is right.

Trump has never needed to be intelligent in his career. Trump’s ‘success’, such as it is, clearly has two foundations:

1) Inherited wealth

2) The cunning of a swindler when it comes to making deals that are good for Trump and bad for others.

253
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:23:00pm
254
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:23:10pm

Trump U graduate.

255
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:23:10pm

re: #234 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ve been paying into SS since 1965. And ever since then I’ve been hearing SS would be bankrupt long before I would be able to collect a dime at retirement.
I am now preparing my paperwork to start drawing benefits next summer.

Like I said, I’ll happily treat it as bonus money.

Assuming that they haven’t added things like means-testing, etc. by the time I’m eligible.

They’ve still got over 30 years to fuck around with it for that, so.

256
makeitstop  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:23:53pm

re: #245 Patricia Kayden

Not true. Polls show that most people believe the victims. The problem for Trump is that he’s on record boasting about sexually assaulting women. Why would we not believe women who come forward to validate Trump’s boast?

I think you misread my post, or I’m misreading yours. That quote was from a Trump spokesbot, not me.

257
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:28:02pm

re: #15 Timothy Watson

Delusional to the max. Maryland is not going red. We have a Republican Governor (sadly) but no way Trump wins our state. This kind of thinking is why we may see violence on November 8th. Secretary Clinton is more likely to get Texas than Trump to get Maryland.

258
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:28:11pm

So now Republicans are pre-minimizing Hillary’s impending victory by claiming that any Republican but Trump could beat her. Yeah, right. Here’s the thing, though - they CHOSE Trump because they thought he was the one who could beat her. He was the one who would crush her in debates. In fact they couldn’t wait to see him reduce her to a sputtering, teary mass.

How’d that go for them?

The problem with the claim that anyone but Trump could beat Hillary is that Trump beat all of them. Bigly.

259
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:29:07pm

re: #256 makeitstop

I was responding to the Trump spokesbot — not to you.

260
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:29:28pm

re: #247 No Depression

I’m not usually one to defend Jill Stein, but I don’t think she’s being anti-Semitic here. Media concentration is a legitimate concern. FWIW, Stein is ethnically Jewish, so there’s a possibility those nasty tweets might be intended to harass her.

That was my take too. I think most of us have derided the mass media ownership problem.

261
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:29:55pm

re: #251 Patricia Kayden

This is a man who says something one day and then lies about having said it the very next day. It’s almost like he cannot remember what comes out of his mouth. So presidential.

He doesn’t have to. Most liars have to remember their lies in order to be consistent. He’s discovered that he can shut down true accusations that he lied, simply by insisting that he “never said that”.

262
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:30:42pm

re: #254 Skip Intro

Is no one in their inner circle kind enough to correct their misspellings for them? How embarrassing.

263
Decatur Deb  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:32:23pm

re: #197 Nyet

Plus the logic is pure shit. Silencing someone because of their lies makes perfect sense.

Sig. Galilei for you on line 3.

264
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:33:34pm

re: #27 Dave In Austin

Wow. I see his advertisements every day. Good catch. No money from me to someone who supports an unqualified Bigot.

265
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:33:57pm

CA people - Prop 61 yea or nah?

The CADems have this listed as “no position”

266
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:35:09pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

CA people - Prop 61 yea or nah?

The CADems have this listed as “no position”

It is a potential minefield.

I can appreciate the idea.

I am less sure of the execution.

267
gwangung  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:36:29pm

re: #266 klys (maker of Silmarils)

It is a potential minefield.

I can appreciate the idea.

I am less sure of the execution.

Huh. That generally means a No.

268
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:37:50pm

re: #267 gwangung

Huh. That generally means a No.

I mean, the legislative analyst sort of looked at it and went “….dude, I need a drink.”

That’s not what they wrote, but you have to know that’s what they were thinking.

There’s a reason the Dems have it listed as no position, I think.

269
whitebeach  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:37:50pm

re: #215 freetoken

One of the toughest nuts to crack in American politics is convincing SS recipients that they are participating in socialism.

Want a tougher one? Talk to one of the many retired armed services people who will tell you that they didn’t serve their country in order to see it turn socialist. Try to convince that person that he or she spent an entire working life as a proud part of an organization that is almost purely socialist, with every facility and piece of equipment owned by the state, and every employee paid by the state. Same thing for the VA.

270
calochortus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:38:43pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

CA people - Prop 61 yea or nah?

The CADems have this listed as “no position”

What Klys said. Also, this is the sort of thing that is not well dealt with by proposition because the legislature generally can’t just amend it without putting it before the voters.

On the other hand, I hate the anti-61 ads with a passion, which makes me want to vote for it. But I won’t.

272
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:41:10pm

re: #270 calochortus

What Klys said. Also, this is the sort of thing that is not well dealt with by proposition because the legislature generally can’t just amend it without putting it before the voters.

On the other hand, I hate the anti-61 ads with a passion, which makes me want to vote for it. But I won’t.

It’s one of those things where I am absolutely not aligned with the anti-61 folks but for the uncertainty and the inability of the legislature to be able to address it if it goes sideways (which it could, spectacularly, in ways outlined in the voter’s guide by the analysts) I couldn’t really vote yes on it either.

I did at least vote on that one, as opposed to the three I deliberately left blank.

273
Patricia Kayden  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:41:54pm

re: #25 Backwoods_Sleuth

Red state voters have to figure out who has their best interests at heart and stop voting for Republicans. Democrats aren’t perfect but surely our side understands that workers need and deserve living wages. How in the world can someone survive on $8.20 an hour? Even the struck down $9 an hour is too low unless you work more than one job.

274
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:42:01pm
275
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:43:19pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

CA people - Prop 61 yea or nah?

The CADems have this listed as “no position”

What is this?

276
GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:44:20pm

Thinking of dropping this on my FB wall, since the Trump supporters in my life have been going insane all day today:

So. You think the vote is rigged and that Hillary is the pre-determined winner? Ok. Guess you won’t bother voting then. What’s the point?

277
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:44:51pm

Okay, but let’s break this down.

One side believes it will win because the polls, both state and national, show their candidate leading by 6-9 points in the popular vote.

The other side believes it will win DESPITE the polls, both state and national, showing their candidate trailing by 6-9 points in the popular vote.

One side is has a view of the race that is supported by data. The other side has a view to the race that runs counter to the data.

278
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:45:29pm

re: #271 Charles Johnson

Kellyanne Conway has developed a frozen, maniacal smile that would give her a head start should the Batman franchise ever go with a female Joker.

279
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:46:14pm

re: #275 MsJ

What is this?

CALIFORNIA DRUG PRICE RELIEF INITIATIVE

ballotpedia.org

280
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:47:09pm

re: #275 MsJ

What is this?

One of the (haha) seventeen propositions on the ballot in CA, this one requiring that MediCal pay the same amount for drugs as the VA does.

The theory being, of course, that since the VA typically pays less for drugs than just about anyone, this will lead to lower prescription prices in the state.

Possible consequences include the VA paying more for drugs, certain drugs being unavailable in CA, CA not receiving federal matching dollars for Medicaid because it cannot provide access to essential medication, drug companies raising prices on drugs NOT purchased by the VA, etc. They really can’t say for sure.

281
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:47:33pm

Instagram

Best company for practice at home #Nina #kitten 😼

282
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:47:54pm

re: #255 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Like I said, I’ll happily treat it as bonus money.

Assuming that they haven’t added things like means-testing, etc. by the time I’m eligible.

They’ve still got over 30 years to fuck around with it for that, so.

around 1983 they started taxing benefits over certain limits - a rudimentary sort of means testing

283
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:49:00pm

re: #263 Decatur Deb

Sig. Galilei for you on line 3.

They also laughed at Bozo the clown.

285
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:50:31pm

Such a nasty woman.

Instagram

Marilyn Monroe at home in Hollywood, 1953. (Alfred Eisensteadt—The LIFE Picture Collection/Getty Images) #LIFElegends #1950s #MarilynMonroe

286
Timothy Watson  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:50:48pm

re: #282 dangerman

around 1983 they started taxing benefits over certain limits - a rudimentary sort of means testing

And the thresholds when taxation kicks in are extremely low.

287
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:50:52pm

re: #251 Patricia Kayden

This is a man who says something one day and then lies about having said it the very next day. It’s almost like he cannot remember what comes out of his mouth. So presidential.

no doubt - i assume you mean trump and not wallace ;-)

i was just amazed when we were predicting and now am still amazed that wallace likely let trump lie to his face about a conversation between the two of them

the implication of which is trump is calling wallace a liar as well as explicitly calling clinton one

289
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:52:36pm

re: #275 MsJ

What is this?

Prescription drug price regulation. NO. Prop 61 mandates that the state of California cannot buy prescription drugs at a price higher than that paid by the Department of Veterans Affairs, which is widely believed to get the best price around. The opposition claims this would cause drug companies to charge the VA more, thus hurting vets. This is a stretch, and I wouldn’t pay too much attention to it.

Unfortunately, the arguments in favor of Prop 61 are tenuous. Although the VA publishes the price it pays for most drugs, the real prices it pays are often lower, thanks to special discounts. This makes it unclear how Prop 61 would be enforced. It’s also unclear if it would even save any money. As the legislative analyst points out, giving California Medicaid a lower price would, by federal law, entitle all state Medicaid programs to the same price. One way or another, drug companies would do something to maintain their current pricing and profitability—and there’s no telling who would pay the price for this.

This initiative is my toughest call. I like the idea of reducing drug prices. But doing it on a piecemeal basis like this runs real risks of unintended consequences—all while also running a risk of not even accomplishing its goal. In this case, my bias against initiatives has the final say: Prop 61 is too ambiguous to be written into stone. It might be a good legislative action, but either way, the Legislature is where it belongs.

Mother Jones

290
Decatur Deb  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:52:37pm

re: #283 Nyet

They also laughed at Bozo the clown.

Bozo was snatched up in an anti-clown SWAT sweep in Oklahoma. He’s being held incommunicado with the mime troupe.

291
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:53:19pm

Instagram

Ziyah Gafic (@ziyahgafic) has his #EyesOn on a buried past, beneath a landscape once known as Yugoslavia. “I was a teenager during war time,” says the Sarajevo-based photographer, whose world was shattered when his nation was engulfed by ethnic conflict, some 20 years ago. “I was raised and shaped by war.” Now a professional photojournalist, Ziyah’s work has taken him around the world from Saudi Arabia to Zimbabwe. He uses images of his homeland to seek closure with its troubled history: “Nature overtakes us and covers our misdeeds.”
Photo by @ziyahgafic

292
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:53:53pm

re: #277 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

Okay, but let’s break this down.

One side believes it will win because the polls, both state and national, show their candidate leading by 6-9 points in the popular vote.

The other side believes it will win DESPITE the polls, both state and national, showing their candidate trailing by 6-9 points in the popular vote.

One side is has a view of the race that is supported by data. The other side has a view to the race that runs counter to the data.

Fraud could well have swung the 1960 election for Kennedy, but that involved a very close race where a few thousand votes in a specific place could make the difference. Trump supporters are apparently too stupid to understand that it would take 10 million or more fraudulent votes, spread all over the country, to swing an actual Trump win to the kind of margin for Hillary that we are seeing in the polls.
Otoh, they might also be stupid enough to imagine that 10 million fraudulent votes could be cast and counted. For all they know, the Dems have 100,000 chartered buses and half a million volunteers waiting to shuttle repeat voters from one polling place to another.

293
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:54:25pm

re: #286 Timothy Watson

And the thresholds when taxation kicks in are extremely low.

yes. and too low id say
the idea in general is not a bad one though.
and i agree ss is not an “entitlement”. and that the recipient did help fund it.
still some people should at least pay a tax on their ss - if they have far too much income

(preparing to duck if necessary)

294
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:55:01pm
295
EPR-radar  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:55:19pm

re: #287 dangerman

no doubt - i assume you mean trump and not wallace ;-)

i was just amazed when we were predicting and now am still amazed that wallace likely let trump lie to his face about a conversation between the two of them

the implication of which is trump is calling wallace a liar as well as explicitly calling clinton one

Wallace is a Fox News hack that practices just enough journalism to maintain a shred of credibility. Having Trump lie to his face is nothing for Wallace.

Poker analogies work well for this debate. It’s as if Wallace dealt trump a fistful of aces from the bottom of the deck, only to see Trump discard the aces one by one in an unsuccessful attempt to fill a 4-flush. The 4-flush was then thrown on the table at the end to claim victory.

296
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:58:58pm

re: #294 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

I might concoct an alt-history in which Trump, Romney, Phil Robertson, and Ted Nugent somehow fail to dodge the draft and end up in the same unit in Vietnam.

There hasn’t been much comedy about Vietnam, so maybe it’s time.

297
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 3:59:48pm

re: #279 Stanley Sea

CALIFORNIA DRUG PRICE RELIEF INITIATIVE

ballotpedia.org

So a law with no teeth and doesn’t help the general population. Excellent.

298
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:02:42pm
299
whitebeach  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:03:26pm

re: #292 Shiplord Kirel

Fraud could well have swung the 1960 election for Kennedy, but that involved a very close race where a few thousand votes in a specific place could make the difference.

I assume you’re talking about the pervasive meme that crooked voting in Chicago gave JFK Illinois and thus the election. I try to shoot this down every time I see it. Do the numbers: Illinois had 27 electoral votes. Even if not a single Democratic vote had been recorded in the state and those 27 EVs had all gone to Nixon, JFK would still have won the election.

300
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:06:50pm

re: #282 dangerman

around 1983 they started taxing benefits over certain limits - a rudimentary sort of means testing

They shouldn’t means test the payouts, but cap out max payments.

They should means test contributions; the more you make in any income (e.g., trading like Wall Street should be taxed as income) the more you pay-in percentage (one flat percentage so it’s “fair” and you pay in more as you make more.)

As soon as you means test payments you’re selling out as an “entitlement” and not a “benefit”.

JMHO.

301
Reality Based Steve  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:09:21pm

My retirement plan basically is going to have to involve a wealthy woman with very low standards. /////

RBS

302
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:10:00pm

re: #295 EPR-radar

Wallace is a Fox News hack that practices just enough journalism to maintain a shred of credibility. Having Trump lie to his face is nothing for Wallace.

Poker analogies work well for this debate. It’s as if Wallace dealt trump a fistful of aces from the bottom of the deck, only to see Trump discard the aces one by one in an unsuccessful attempt to fill a 4-flush. The 4-flush was then thrown on the table at the end to claim victory.

this is definitely the year of the metaphor and analogy ;-)

303
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:10:04pm
304
Decatur Deb  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:10:15pm

re: #301 Reality Based Steve

My retirement plan basically is going to have to involve a wealthy woman with very low standards. /////

RBS

Widow who owns a pub, a plus.

305
wrenchwench  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:12:23pm

I’ve just emerged from paperwork hell.

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

It’s the little things that keep me going.

306
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:12:35pm

re: #296 Shiplord Kirel

I might concoct an alt-history in which Trump, Romney, Phil Robertson, and Ted Nugent somehow fail to dodge the draft and end up in the same unit in Vietnam.

There hasn’t been much comedy about Vietnam, so maybe it’s time.

I first read that as PAT Robertson and was about to say it was Korea that his Daddy the Senator saved him from when he was literally on the boat.

[Emily Litella] Never mind. [/Emily Litella]

307
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:14:04pm

re: #295 EPR-radar

Wallace is a Fox News hack that practices just enough journalism to maintain a shred of credibility. Having Trump lie to his face is nothing for Wallace.

Poker analogies work well for this debate. It’s as if Wallace dealt trump a fistful of aces from the bottom of the deck, only to see Trump discard the aces one by one in an unsuccessful attempt to fill a 4-flush. The 4-flush was then thrown on the table at the end to claim victory.

I always wonder what his father thinks…or is like.

308
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:14:11pm
309
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:14:15pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

Some days, you take your victories where you can get them.

I’ll admit, I’m looking for one today. There’s the running one, I guess.

310
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:14:22pm

re: #299 whitebeach

I assume you’re talking about the pervasive meme that crooked voting in Chicago gave JFK Illinois and thus the election. I try to shoot this down every time I see it. Do the numbers: Illinois had 27 electoral votes. Even if not a single Democratic voted had been recorded in the state and those 27 EVs had all gone to Nixon, JFK would still have won the election.

More to it than Illinois, but my point was that the number of votes required was nowhere close to the millions that would be needed today.
Texas (24 EV, decided by 46,000 ballots) was also disputed and LBJ was on the ticket. I suspect that Nixon didn’t make a fuss because his own win in California (decided only after absentee ballots were counted) might also be questionable.

311
Decatur Deb  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:16:08pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

I’ve just emerged from paperwork hell.

[Embedded content]

It’s the little things that keep me going.

Congrats on the mis-identification. You might get an upper bunk in one of Trump’s lagers.

312
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:16:10pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

I’ve just emerged from paperwork hell.

[Embedded content]

It’s the little things that keep me going.

said with lots of mirth and fun, if you could be mistaken, you could be deported before you woke up

313
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:17:20pm

GUESS WHAT
314
Stanley Sea  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:17:47pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

Bottom line: So glad you are able to fill out this paperwork.

315
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:18:03pm

Raskolnikov is a good guy, strong, defeated the nasty woman. Good riddance! #TrumpBookReport

316
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:18:32pm

re: #309 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Some days, you take your victories where you can get them.

I’ll admit, I’m looking for one today. There’s the running one, I guess.

q0YFRY6C/o4pH8UCvQ/G1cHMizw3XcNLlbj+M83+RGrU6Tog+1IDjDX0s+yRJ8RLeED7K3VD0HTPhwoSEZNjf4b5e5MpQVpJBrXqdZMhjmXbW8geU94L8ETgcxNdVZMD

317
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:19:07pm
318
wrenchwench  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:19:08pm

re: #309 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Some days, you take your victories where you can get them.

I’ll admit, I’m looking for one today. There’s the running one, I guess.

I did my jogging this morning. I kept going out of my target heart-rate zone on the high side, because I was trying to hurry because I had one more thing to write to turn in my app. today. When the goal is 30 minutes in your THZ, it doesn’t help to hurry.

319
wrenchwench  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:20:19pm

re: #314 Stanley Sea

Bottom line: So glad you are able to fill out this paperwork.

Yep. Me too. And, it’s rehab. Gotta practice all those things that I used to do.

320
Decatur Deb  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:21:44pm

re: #315 Nyet

Raskolnikov is a good guy, strong, defeated the nasty woman. Good riddance! #TrumpBookReport

Lots of nasty women there, got together and wouldn’t let anyone grab their pussies. No wonder the men went off to war.

321
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:22:16pm

This is the best proposal, I tell you. Very efficient, helps the economy, pretty modest too. #TrumpBookReport

322
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:24:45pm

This small thief, stealing from 40 effective managers. What a punk! A very bad story, believe me. The worst! #TrumpBookReport

323
MsJ  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:25:23pm

re: #313 The Vicious Babushka

324
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:25:27pm

re: #300 MsJ

They shouldn’t means test the payouts, but cap out max payments.

They should means test contributions; the more you make in any income (e.g., trading like Wall Street should be taxed as income) the more you pay-in percentage (one flat percentage so it’s “fair” and you pay in more as you make more.)

As soon as you means test payments you’re selling out as an “entitlement” and not a “benefit”.

JMHO.

there are lots of approaches - none are pretty
(note i’m not arguing. just observing)

one advantage of means testing payouts is that it can be done year by year as circumstances / income rises and falls
cap max pmts - someone gets much older and income precipitously drops. ss is all that’s left and then it cuts off….

i agree more/most income should be subject to fica

the original concept of ss was more modest, and not really thought out and projected 50-75 years into the future. population grew and now the basic commitment / logic has morphed. redefining it in any new way is not going to be easy. no change is easier than any change at all (for the time being).

325
freetoken  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:25:28pm
326
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:25:37pm
327
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:27:22pm

Charles,
I just renewed my subscription.

r0U/1pSgcK+HZl6lyzyJQmuEpKWSznAnIhPW71VJAAU=

328
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:28:22pm

re: #316 dangerman

hgGH9mPEviHg0lt4GAHTXsf58KL2bVgO89/hH7HTJYLZ/pSEh9yKrK6ro3CM2bd/0ocvz9j/CU9H1bOBI2PYtFPFtdVKxZTMU4xWVAo0Ds4rCBVsi54Ldo3ZlKTjgX4pMXD6Kqh6D/lwNvVMJvjhAtjiScBY5Sw5kFSebAIToi98kxXkhbQeqg==

329
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:28:58pm

So this guy ended up on an uninhabited island. What a dummy. Should have stayed home in America. America first! #TrumpBookReport

330
wrenchwench  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:28:59pm

re: #324 dangerman

(note i’m not arguing. just observing)

Are you related to Mr. w?

331
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:29:14pm

Recently had a bit of a revelation regarding Donald Trump as of late - the personality traits that he’s exhibiting aren’t ones that would be associated with someone wanting to become President. Let’s look at the list:

1. Believes that any female within his realm is fair game for sexual contact.
2. Paranoid belief that everyone outside of his direct influence is “out to get him”.
3. Asserts he is absolute authority - not accountable to established laws or society - and all should be in unquestioned servitude to him.
4. Responds to any challenge as a personal affront, including advocating violence to suppress.

He doesn’t want to be President, he wants to be the Alpha Male of the nation.

332
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:30:58pm

It’s about a nasty woman who uses her umbrella to fly and sneak up on unsuspecting respectable citizens. Use the drones! #TrumpBookReport

333
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:31:11pm

re: #331 Bill and Opus for 2016!

Recently had a bit of a revelation regarding Donald Trump as of late - the personality traits that he’s exhibiting aren’t ones that would be associated with someone wanting to become President. Let’s look at the list:

1. Believes that any female within his realm is fair game for sexual contact.
2. Paranoid belief that everyone outside of his direct influence is “out to get him”.
3. Asserts he is absolute authority - not accountable to established laws or society - and all should be in unquestioned servitude to him.
4. Responds to any challenge as a personal affront, including advocating violence to suppress.

He doesn’t want to be President, he wants to be the Alpha Male of the nation.

That’s what his fans think the President is supposed to be.

334
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:31:58pm

re: #327 Backwoods_Sleuth

Thank you very much! Since you used PayPal’s subscription option it should be set up automatically.

335
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:32:17pm
336
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:35:43pm

re: #335 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

“It may take a while, but I’ll squeeze the oil out of their mangy carcasses—buhlieve me!”

337
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:36:57pm

re: #281 Charles Johnson

re: #284 Charles Johnson

re: #285 Charles Johnson

LOL, Charles. When clicking on these posts to make certain I had your user name correct for the private message, this came up for the profile. My computer is psychotic…fascinating!

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

338
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:37:11pm

This is the best book by the best writer, I promise I have read it all, every page, believe me. What? Galt? Who’s that, some Mexican? #TrumpBookReport

339
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:37:41pm

re: #329 Nyet

So this guy ended up on an uninhabited island. What a dummy. Should have stayed home in America. America first! #TrumpBookReport

So this guy ended up on an uninhabited island. What a dummy. Should have stayed home in England! #TrumpBookReport

340
Skip Intro  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:38:21pm
341
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:39:04pm

re: #339 dangerman

So this guy ended up on an uninhabited island. What a dummy. Should have stayed home in England! #TrumpBookReport

You didn’t get the joke.

342
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:39:54pm

re: #328 klys (maker of Silmarils)

sounds good to me

343
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:40:39pm

re: #330 wrenchwench

Are you related to Mr. w?

only in the way we’re all related…

344
b_sharp  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:40:58pm

re: #330 wrenchwench

Are you related to Mr. w?

Man thing.

345
Charles Johnson  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:41:52pm
346
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:41:59pm

It’s a weird book, there’s a pussy but it’s in boots. Would do it anyway. #TrumpBookReport

347
dangerman  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:44:19pm

re: #341 Nyet

You didn’t get the joke.

i often dont. im not much fun at parties.

i thought you were going Cast Away, so i went Robinson Crusoe

348
Nyet  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:47:28pm

re: #347 dangerman

OK, then I didn’t get the joke. I was going for Crusoe but with the American exceptionalist twist.

349
Bubblehead II  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:48:43pm

Lizards calling it a night. Sleep well.

350
ObserverArt  Oct 20, 2016 • 4:50:53pm

re: #186 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Heh. He got pissed off by a question from Colleen Marshall the main news reporter for NBC channel 4 here in Columbus. Not good. She is a lawyer too, for a long time she was a senior lawyer at Porter Wright Morris & Arthur a huge National firm. She also has her own local politics show called “The Spectrum” where she discusses local and national politics a half hour before Chucky Todd’s MTP.

I bet the chatter behind the scenes with all the people she knows politically here in Ohio’s Capital City is hot after that bit. Not good Donny…you may have pissed off even more of Ohio’s conservatives.

(I don’t know Colleen’s politics, but I do know she seems to be popular with Ohio’s power people. She maintains a pretty even stance on her politics show.)

351
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 20, 2016 • 5:09:45pm

re: #347 dangerman

re: #348 Nyet

And I was waiting for a Wilson reference…

352
No Country For Old Haters  Oct 20, 2016 • 6:21:27pm

re: #179 Backwoods_Sleuth


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