Oregon Standoff Defendants Found Not Guilty of All Charges

US News • Views: 53,516

We all saw them take over the Malheur Wildlife Sanctuary with guns, then we all saw them threaten federal officers and trash the property for weeks afterward.

But today in a shocking development in the conspiracy trial against Ammon Bundy and his criminal militia pals, all of the defendants were found not guilty of all charges.

This is a gross miscarriage of justice. The jury has basically given the green light to America’s far right militias to do whatever they please.

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468 comments
1
freetoken  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:41:37pm

Repeating myself from downstairs:

re: #189 KGxvi

They can’t be tried on these charges again, of course. But given their sociopathic tendencies somewhere down the line they will try similar stunts, and eventually there will be a jury that will convict.

2
Patricia Kayden  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:42:02pm

This will only encourage more “Patriots” to take over federal land/property.

3
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:44:13pm
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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:45:07pm

If the Bundy gang had been black and did what they did, they would have been killed by law enforcement without a trial. Ditto if they were white communist radicals.

5
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:46:07pm

re: #4 EPR-radar

If the Bundy gang had been black and did what they did, they would have been killed by law enforcement without a trial. Ditto if they were white communist radicals.

I have no doubt of that at all.

6
Kryptik: Just Done With It.  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:46:21pm

Repeating a comment I made elsewhere on this:

For all the talk about ‘legislating from the bench’, this seems like as transparent a case of ignoring or re-writing law because ‘them’s good ol’ boys’ as there is.

7
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:46:22pm

re: #4 EPR-radar

If the Bundy gang had been black and did what they did, they would have been killed by law enforcement without a trial. Ditto if they were white communist radicals.

Repeating myself from downstairs, we don’t have to look any further than what’s happening in Standing Rock right now to see the perfect definition of white privilege.

8
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:47:59pm
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:48:31pm
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:49:00pm
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Patricia Kayden  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:49:17pm

re: #7 Backwoods_Sleuth

And sadly, apart from Democracy Now, the media is pretty much ignoring what’s happening in North Dakota.

12
piratedan  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:49:43pm

we… as a nation, are going to be “paying” for this verdict for quite some time. A jury, decided that the law essentially didn’t fucking matter and that the Feds aren’t entrusted with the authority to confront white people who feel that the laws don’t apply to them.

This will take a long time to unfuck.

13
b_sharp  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:49:54pm

Repeating myself.

Repeating myself.

14
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:50:12pm

re: #1 freetoken

Repeating myself from downstairs:

They can’t be tried on these charges again, of course. But given their sociopathic tendencies somewhere down the line they will try similar stunts, and eventually there will be a jury that will convict.

How many more crimes between now and then? How many will die or be injured between now and then?

15
jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:50:27pm

Blechh.

16
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:50:37pm

re: #11 Patricia Kayden

And sadly, apart from Democracy Now, the media is pretty much ignoring what’s happening in North Dakota.

To be fair, Lawrence O’Donnell has been covering it.

17
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:50:53pm
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teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:51:57pm
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CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:52:13pm

re: #1 freetoken

Repeating myself from downstairs:

They can’t be tried on these charges again, of course. But given their sociopathic tendencies somewhere down the line they will try similar stunts, and eventually there will be a jury that will convict.

Hopefully, no one will lose his/her life between now & then, but this is going to embolden them. So why aren’t the wingnuts screeching about how #BlueLivesMatter, even though local, state & federal LE were at risk? Effing hypocrites. *spit*

20
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:53:13pm

Westboro Baptist Church picketed Rowan County Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis’s office, blaming her for “causing gay marriage”:

courier-journal.com

More at the link:

MOREHEAD, Ky. - The Westboro Baptist Church, a Kansas group known for its caustic anti-gay rhetoric, took aim at Kim Davis on Monday, accusing the county clerk of hypocrisy and adultery.

Four Westboro members picketed on a street corner near the Rowan County Courthouse, waving signs that denounced “fag marriage” and playing popular songs that were altered with inflammatory lyrics. It was one of several pickets the group has staged in Kentucky since Sunday, including three outside Louisville churches.

“This woman wants to say that her sin isn’t as grievous as the same-sex marriage sin,” said one member, Shirley Phelps-Roper. “It’s all sin. It’s all awful. But her sin enabled that sin. When you look up, and all the Christians have given over the moral high ground, what voice do they have left?”

21
ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:53:31pm

re: #11 Patricia Kayden

And sadly, apart from Democracy Now, the media is pretty much ignoring what’s happening in North Dakota.

Hey we have Clinton emails to worry about!

22
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:53:36pm

re: #12 piratedan

we… as a nation, are going to be “paying” for this verdict for quite some time. A jury, decided that the law essentially didn’t fucking matter and that the Feds aren’t entrusted with the authority to confront white people who feel that the laws don’t apply to them.

This will take a long time to unfuck.

From the Oregon occupation to the Oklahoma City bombing isn’t really a slippery slope.

It’s more like a WD-40 water slide.

23
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:53:41pm

I am going to ask off for election day. Things might be ugly.

Mother Jones had a disturbing story on the Paramilitaries.

24
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:54:43pm
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gocart mozart  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:55:11pm
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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:55:19pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:55:58pm

re: #20 Anymouse

Westboro Baptist Church picketed Rowan County Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis’s office, blaming her for “causing gay marriage”:

courier-journal.com

More at the link:

Not the Onion? Heh. This is almost comical.

28
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:56:14pm

re: #25 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

And the people at Standing Rock ARE NOT ARMED.

29
goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:56:29pm
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Seriously! Emboldening Trump’s most atavistic supporters just before an election.

30
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:57:21pm
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ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:57:25pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

Hopefully, no one will lose his/her life between now & then, but this is going to embolden them. So why aren’t the wingnuts screeching about how #BlueLivesMatter, even though local, state & federal LE were at risk? Effing hypocrites. *spit*

Blue lives matter the most when they are going after black lives. White lives don’t like blue lives when they are preventing white lives from acting like assholes.

32
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:57:34pm

OT

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33
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:58:15pm

And here we go:

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Shawna is one of the defendants just found not guilty.

34
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:58:18pm

re: #32 Stanley Sea

OT

[Embedded content]

Glad everyone is safe. Still gotta be scary for all aboard though.

35
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:58:34pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

And here we go:

[Embedded content]

Shawna is one of the defendants just found not guilty.

Agh.

36
allegro  Oct 27, 2016 • 4:59:36pm

My gob is smacked so hard. This is more terrifying than Trump. In combination it’s… time to start drinking.

37
Kryptik: Just Done With It.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:16pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

And here we go:

[Embedded content]

Shawna is one of the defendants just found not guilty.

Well, why not. They just got proof positive that their actions would be forgiven and sanctioned.

38
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:21pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Glad everyone is safe. Still gotta be scary for all aboard though.

I have this fear of them (especially Hil & Flotus) flying around so damn much.

It’s a numbers game.

39
b.d.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:21pm

So the Bundy guys have to get jobs now?

40
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:25pm

But now how are they going to play the aggrieved victim card? Oh, yeah, that’s right: By claiming they were falsely arrested and persecuted. Ugh. I would love to understand the jury’s (lack of) reasoning in this case.

41
jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:25pm
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b_sharp  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:00:58pm
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43
calochortus  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:01:11pm

re: #39 b.d.

So the Bundy guys have to get jobs now?

Not yet. They face charges in NV don’t they?

44
jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:01:43pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:02:02pm

re: #38 Stanley Sea

I have this fear of them (especially Hil & Flotus) flying around so damn much.

It’s a numbers game.

I remember when Paul Wellstone died. That was so very sad. I believe his daughter and wife were with him. I’ll be honest even though I’ve gotten over it, I still have a small fear of flying. I can remember a nightmare I had when I was a little kid about my Dad being in a plane crash. In part because of that anxiety, I always track my closed loved ones flights just to be sure.

46
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:02:24pm

re: #43 calochortus

Not yet. They face charges in NV don’t they?

Ammon does, IIRC, which is what prompted the scuffle in the courtroom by his lawyer. The rest of these crap stains may be free to go.

47
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:32pm

re: #39 b.d.

So the Bundy guys have to get jobs now?

Nope, they still have to go to court in Nevada.

48
calochortus  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:36pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

Ammon does, IIRC, which is what prompted the scuffle in the courtroom by his lawyer. The rest of these crap stains may be free to go.

I was referring to the Bundys. The rest of these idiots, yeah, they’ll have to get jobs, unless they can get that sweet wingnut welfare.

49
gocart mozart  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:42pm

Current mood.

Little Steven-I Am A Patriot_1984 Rockpalast

50
jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:44pm
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51
goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:46pm

He seems nice.

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Patricia Kayden  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:03:46pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

And here we go:

[Embedded content]

Shawna is one of the defendants just found not guilty.

Of course she will. No surprise there at all.

53
Whack-A-Mole  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:04:01pm

How? How in the hell does this happen? Did the prosecution so utterly fail to vet the jury pool that they let it be filled with insane people?

54
makeitstop  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:04:07pm

re: #40 thedopefishlives

But now how are they going to play the aggrieved victim card? Oh, yeah, that’s right: By claiming they were falsely arrested and persecuted. Ugh. I would love to understand the jury’s (lack of) reasoning in this case.

I’m guessing that there was more than one sovcit on the jury.

55
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:04:37pm

So, how will this eventually stop?

Because, this looks bad.

56
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:05:08pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

He seems nice.

[Embedded content]

Hey look ma, another imbred right wing piece of shit who thinks he’s witty by calling someone a fag should be deported to the Congo. Maybe he should take his own advice and deport himself to Russia and hang out with Putin and all the other right wingers in Russia who think Russia is the “real America” now.

57
calochortus  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:05:26pm

Oh well, time to go think about dinner. At least that’s more pleasant than thinking about SovCits.

58
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:05:26pm

re: #54 makeitstop

I’m guessing that there was more than one sovcit on the jury.

That’s my theory as well. It wouldn’t be difficult for sovcits to lie their way onto a jury like this, and all it takes is one juror to spike the case.

59
whitebeach  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:05:35pm

re: #40 thedopefishlives

But now how are they going to play the aggrieved victim card? Oh, yeah, that’s right: By claiming they were falsely arrested and persecuted. Ugh. I would love to understand the jury’s (lack of) reasoning in this case.

Here’s my guess on the dumbass line of “thinking”: 2nd Amendment gives us the right to carry gunz everywhere. No crime to carry gunz. Therefore no conspiracy to commit a crime. And the guvmint employess coulda go to work but were just askeered of those completely legal gunz.

60
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:05:50pm

re: #54 makeitstop

I’m guessing that there was more than one sovcit on the jury.

Or rancher(s) that were completely down with what the Bundy Bunch said they were going to do, which was to take over fed lands and “redistribute” them to said ranchers.

61
scottslemmons  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:06:02pm

I always figured we should’ve dropped bunker busters on ‘em. Coddling terrorists just encourages more terrorists.

62
Whack-A-Mole  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:06:23pm

I’m sorry. Many may not agree with me but, after these farcical verdicts, the next time this happens (and given the way things are going, it won’t be long), the government needs to declare the perpetrators in open revolt against the government and treat them as such.

63
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:06:26pm

re: #54 makeitstop

I’m guessing that there was more than one sovcit on the jury.

That would mean to me that the prosecution did a poor job on jury selection or equally likely some of the prospective jurors lied. All it takes is just one hold out though. And as disappointing as that is, that is our system and there’s a good reason for it.

64
goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:06:48pm

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Decatur Deb  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:06:57pm

re: #28 Backwoods_Sleuth

And the people at Standing Rock ARE NOT ARMED.

Let’s hope they don’t draw the wrong conclusion from Oregon.

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Decatur Deb  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:07:27pm

re: #43 calochortus

Not yet. They face charges in NV don’t they?

Some or most of them.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:07:35pm
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lawhawk  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:07:38pm

Militia lives matter… more than anyone else.

I don’t get it. These heavily armed welfare queens took over a federal installation - a national wildlife refuge, did tremendous damage to the site, including Native American artifacts, and did so with intent and planning.

And they were found not guilty.

I don’t get it. Everyone saw them take the place over.

Everyone saw them planning and prepping their way, and calling on others to work with them to stay.

As so many others are pointing out, we’ve got law enforcement using tasers, tear gas, and force to remove Native Americans from a protest against a pipeline. But apparently heavily armed white guys can get away with all kinds criminality.

Fuck.

69
William Lewis  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:08:15pm

re: #54 makeitstop

I’m guessing that there was more than one sovcit on the jury.

Pure jury nullification driven by theology and sovereign citizen ignorance.

70
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:08:33pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Militia lives matter… more than anyone else.

I don’t get it. These heavily armed welfare queens took over a federal installation - a national wildlife refuge, did tremendous damage to the site, including Native American artifacts, and did so with intent and planning.

And they were found not guilty.

I don’t get it. Everyone saw them take the place over.

Everyone saw them planning and prepping their way, and calling on others to work with them to stay.

As so many others are pointing out, we’ve got law enforcement using tasers, tear gas, and force to remove Native Americans from a protest against a pipeline. But apparently heavily armed white guys can get away with all kinds criminality.

Fuck.

It’s so very disappointing.

71
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:08:45pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

Let’s hope they don’t draw the wrong conclusion from Oregon.

Well, the Bundy Bunch’s tactics won’t work for folks with skin darker than a bleached paper bag, so there’s that.

72
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:08:48pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

That would mean to me that the prosecution did a poor job on jury selection or equally likely some of the prospective jurors lied. All it takes is just one hold out though. And as disappointing as that is, that is our system and there’s a good reason for it.

It may be impossible to get an impartial jury selected for this kind of case in large parts of the West. That’s a real problem.

73
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:08:57pm

Are there any articles on the origins of this sovereign citizen bullshit?

74
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:09:16pm

re: #72 EPR-radar

It may be impossible to get an impartial jury selected for this kind of case in large parts of the West. That’s a real problem.

Yeah it is.

75
CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:09:40pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

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Oh look, he loves photos of corpses and is also retweeting antisemites. I’m shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

76
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:09:56pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

Are there any articles on the origins of this sovereign citizen bullshit?

forbes.com

77
Kryptik: Just Done With It.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:08pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Militia lives matter… more than anyone else.

I don’t get it. These heavily armed welfare queens took over a federal installation - a national wildlife refuge, did tremendous damage to the site, including Native American artifacts, and did so with intent and planning.

And they were found not guilty.

I don’t get it. Everyone saw them take the place over.

Everyone saw them planning and prepping their way, and calling on others to work with them to stay.

As so many others are pointing out, we’ve got law enforcement using tasers, tear gas, and force to remove Native Americans from a protest against a pipeline. But apparently heavily armed white guys can get away with all kinds criminality.

Fuck.

It wasn’t just that people saw them and heard them planning. THey proudly broadcasted and crowd about the entire goddamn debacle. They hid nothing about their intent or their actions. Someone in this case took the quip of ‘who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes’ too earnestly.

78
nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:12pm

It seems we are a nation of laws until a jury decides to abrogate them. This is why Germany doesn’t use a jury system, but relies on a panel of carefully trained judges instead.

79
Interesting Times  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:18pm

re: #58 EPR-radar

That’s my theory as well. It wouldn’t be difficult for sovcits to lie their way onto a jury like this, and all it takes is one juror to spike the case.

Could there be grounds for an appeal, then? What about this?

80
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:21pm

re: #76 teleskiguy

forbes.com

Thakns man.

81
Jenner7  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:22pm

Pence just posed for a picture with a couple firemen.

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Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:44pm

We are going to have a problem at the elections:

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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:10:50pm

re: #72 EPR-radar

It may be impossible to get an impartial jury selected for this kind of case in large parts of the West. That’s a real problem.

I think this gets to the root of the issue. The prosecution could’ve tried their hardest to get the jury as impartial as possible, but between people lying just to get on the jury (and not caring about any potential consequences) and/or a simple lack of choices and the prosecution exhausting all its options, it’s somewhat not surprising to see this verdict.

84
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:11:30pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

Are there any articles on the origins of this sovereign citizen bullshit?

Google JJ MacNab. She’s the ultimate authority on the sovereign citizen movement.

85
FormerDirtDart  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:11:54pm
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freetoken  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:11:57pm

re: #78 nickzi

Japan doesn’t have a jury system, or at least until very recently, when they’ve been conducting experiments.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:12:16pm

re: #79 Interesting Times

Could there be grounds for an appeal, then? What about this?

Judges don’t throw out not guilty verdicts by juries.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:12:28pm

re: #84 Backwoods_Sleuth

Google JJ MacNab. She’s the ultimate authority on the sovereign citizen movement.

Yeah Ski just linked me to her page on Forbes. Thanks. I’ll look at this tomorrow after work.

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Tigger2  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:12:54pm

re: #75 CuriousLurker

Oh look, he loves photos of corpses and is also retweeting antisemites. I’m shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

[Embedded content]

He used a corps from a civil war photo.

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whitebeach  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:13:10pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

That would mean to me that the prosecution did a poor job on jury selection or equally likely some of the prospective jurors lied. All it takes is just one hold out though. And as disappointing as that is, that is our system and there’s a good reason for it.

This is why plea bargaining is so common. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys know that no amount of vetting, evidence, or logic can prevent some juries from coming up with batshit insane verdicts.

91
nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:13:40pm

re: #84 Backwoods_Sleuth

Google JJ MacNab. She’s the ultimate authority on the sovereign citizen movement.

Could be worth looking to see what Dave Neiwert has to say. He’s reported on that pathology and associated problems for a long time and the Pacific Northwest is his area.

92
piratedan  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:00pm

well… this should be fun to determine how this falls out… we have 12 of our peers who apparently believe that armed strangers occupying Federal facilities shouldn’t impact their ability to perform their jobs, and who knows, maybe those federal workers were negligent in not keeping the place up while these citizens visited and enjoyed their lengthy stay at the refuge. Those threats of bloodshed were simply rhetoric and high spirits in their demands to have the land turned over to their friends and neighbors from the Federal Government, who shouldn’t even really own anything anyway.

Have to give the Bundy lawyers kudos for finding twelve like minded folks who could believe that fucking fairy tale.

93
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:11pm

re: #90 whitebeach

This is why plea bargaining is so common. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys know that no amount of vetting, evidence, or logic can prevent some juries from coming up with batshit insane verdicts.

Yeah.

94
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:36pm

re: #89 Tigger2

He used a corps from a civil war photo.

And he names himself on Twitter after an Ayn Rand protagonist. Some things are just too predictable.

95
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:48pm

re: #87 Timothy Watson

Judges don’t throw out not guilty verdicts by juries.

And they’re all protected from double jeopardy, so, unless they fuck up again (and you know they will, it’s just a matter of who they’ll end up hurting or killing), all except the Bundys are off scot-free.

96
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:49pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

Are there any articles on the origins of this sovereign citizen bullshit?

splcenter.org

97
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:14:56pm

re: #91 nickzi

Could be worth looking to see what Dave Neiwert has to say. He’s reported on that pathology and associated problems for a long time and the Pacific Northwest is his area.

I believe the Pac Northwest is the birthplace of hte militia movement. Eastern Washington state and Idaho right? I remember seeing crime documentaries on groups like The Order and stuff.

98
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:15:42pm

re: #96 Anymouse

splcenter.org

Thanks. I’ll look at that as well.

99
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:15:46pm

re: #91 nickzi

Could be worth looking to see what Dave Neiwert has to say. He’s reported on that pathology and associated problems for a long time and the Pacific Northwest is his area.

yes, another good resource.

100
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:15:52pm

re: #92 piratedan

well… this should be fun to determine how this falls out… we have 12 of our peers who apparently believe that armed strangers occupying Federal facilities shouldn’t impact their ability to perform their jobs, and who knows, maybe those federal workers were negligent in not keeping the place up while these citizens visited and enjoyed their lengthy stay at the refuge. Those threats of bloodshed were simply rhetoric and high spirits in their demands to have the land turned over to their friends and neighbors from the Federal Government, who shouldn’t even really own anything anyway.

Have to give the Bundy lawyers kudos for finding twelve like minded folks who could believe that fucking fairy tale.

Note to the Fed prosecutors here: this is why voir dire is important.

101
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:16:20pm

re: #90 whitebeach

This is why plea bargaining is so common. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys know that no amount of vetting, evidence, or logic can prevent some juries from coming up with batshit insane verdicts.

A lawyer I worked with had an observation on point:

1) If you try a 100% certain slam dunk case to a jury, you have an 80% chance of winning.

2) There are no 100% certain slam dunk cases.

102
Whack-A-Mole  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:16:33pm

What’s the over/under on the number of days after HRC’s Nov. 8 win before the first repeat of Oregon by Trumpkins?

103
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:04pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

Is it possible that a “Guilty” Verdict would have been impossible to get in that area?

Wouldn’t that mean that, in the future, a change of venue would be needed. If that is the case, there is hope for the Nevada cases, as Las Vegas is not going to be sympathetic.

104
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:07pm

Makes me wonder if there was some intimidation going on behind the closed doors of the jury deliberation chamber. It seems odd that a juror got removed during the deliberation proceedings; lawhawk, any idea if that sort of thing happens?

105
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:34pm

Jenner or anyone. Can you link me the Hillary ad of the undocumented family & the little girl? I’m done searching, too many bizarre RWNJ Hillary videos to go through.

106
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:35pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I believe the Pac Northwest is the birthplace of hte militia movement. Eastern Washington state and Idaho right? I remember seeing crime documentaries on groups like The Order and stuff.

A lot of them moved up to Alaska from Colorado and Idaho, as well as from PNW.
Also, see Michigan.

107
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:40pm

I find myself with nothing useful to say here that doesn’t violate the ‘no advocating violence’ rule.

108
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:50pm

re: #101 EPR-radar

A lawyer I worked with had an observation on point:

1) If you try a 100% certain slam dunk case to a jury, you have an 80% chance of winning.

2) There are no 100% certain slam dunk cases.

That’s very true. Even in cases of obvious guilt i.e. Jeffrey Dahmer, you had debate between prosecution and defense whether Dahmer was legally sane or not. Honestly, as disappointed as I am with this outcome, I am glad we have no double jeopardy.

109
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:17:59pm

I bet that militia guy who got himself killed is feeling pretty stupid right about now

110
petesh  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:18:16pm

I thought I was a realist, if not indeed a cynic, but my gob is thoroughly smacked. And I am scared as hell about what some of their buddies might do late on November 8th and early on November 9. Not to mention next year. I actually think HRC would be less reluctant than BHO to use force, and I’m not at all sure that would turn out well, either.

111
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:18:18pm

re: #102 Whack-A-Mole

What’s the over/under on the number of days after HRC’s Nov. 8 win before the first repeat of Oregon by Trumpkins?

I’m thinking it may well happen BEFORE Nov. 8.

112
Decatur Deb  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:18:31pm

re: #109 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I bet that militia guy who got himself killed is feeling pretty stupid right about now

Not to mention the ones who copped a plea.

113
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:03pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I believe the Pac Northwest is the birthplace of hte militia movement. Eastern Washington state and Idaho right? I remember seeing crime documentaries on groups like The Order and stuff.

IIRC, there was a significant exodus of nut jobs from the defeated Confederacy into the ‘Wild West”, and they brought their virulent anti-Federal sentiments with them.

114
gocart mozart  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:09pm
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nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:09pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I believe the Pac Northwest is the birthplace of hte militia movement. Eastern Washington state and Idaho right? I remember seeing crime documentaries on groups like The Order and stuff.

That’s the source of a good deal of it. Oregon has always had a share of the really nasty hard right - genuine Nazis, Phineas priests that kind of scum. Neiwert’s books mostly deal with the Pacific Northwest, as I recall. He has a blog:

dneiwert.blogspot.com

116
DodgerFan1988  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:18pm

White Privilege? What White Privilege?

117
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:26pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I believe the Pac Northwest is the birthplace of hte militia movement. Eastern Washington state and Idaho right? I remember seeing crime documentaries on groups like The Order and stuff.

In other words, home turf.

Disregard my previous comment about voir dire…given who these clowns are and where they were standing trial at, the Feds should have gone for a change of venue closer to the coast and away from the inland empire, because justice wasn’t to be had here.

118
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:33pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Not to mention the ones who copped a plea.

Too much Trump on my mind. Read that as “copped a feel”

119
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:42pm

re: #106 Backwoods_Sleuth

A lot of them moved up to Alaska from Colorado and Idaho, as well as from PNW.
Also, see Michigan.

I assume Michigan’s upper peninsula right? The history and origins of these movements are so fascinating. I was reading the profile on Richard Spencer that Mother Jones did today and they talked about how one guy he worked with is a nephew of Ann Coulter’s publisher and a grandson of a former huge America First guy.

120
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:19:50pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:20:04pm

re: #113 EPR-radar

IIRC, there was a significant exodus of nut jobs from the defeated Confederacy into the ‘Wild West”, and they brought their virulent anti-Federal sentiments with them.

Doesn’t surprise me.

122
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:20:49pm

re: #115 nickzi

That’s the source of a good deal of it. Oregon has always had a share of the really nasty hard right - genuine Nazis, Phineas priests that kind of scum. Neiwert’s books mostly deal with the Pacific Northwest, as I recall. He has a blog:

dneiwert.blogspot.com

Yeah, we think of Oregon was progressive because of Portland but I’ve read that it has a very ugly history with the hard right. It had a KKK problem in the 20’s I know.

123
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:20:50pm

re: #101 EPR-radar

A lawyer I worked with had an observation on point:

1) If you try a 100% certain slam dunk case to a jury, you have an 80% chance of winning.

2) There are no 100% certain slam dunk cases.

I served on a jury 2 summers ago. Our pool was filled with perfectly upper middle class IDIOTS.

124
Patricia Kayden  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:20:51pm

re: #85 FormerDirtDart

Has anyone blamed Obama yet?

125
William Lewis  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:21:13pm

re: #106 Backwoods_Sleuth

A lot of them moved up to Alaska from Colorado and Idaho, as well as from PNW.
Also, see Michigan.

We have an infestation in the north woods of Wisconsin. They are why I have a concealed carry license.

126
Decatur Deb  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:21:21pm

George Zimmerman wasn’t tried in Oregon.

127
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:21:45pm

re: #103 Ziggy_TARDIS

Is it possible that a “Guilty” Verdict would have been impossible to get in that area?

Wouldn’t that mean that, in the future, a change of venue would be needed. If that is the case, there is hope for the Nevada cases, as Las Vegas is not going to be sympathetic.

Yeah, you could be on to something with that hypothesis.

128
Frankie Five Angels  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:21:58pm

re: #105 Stanley Sea

Verdict

129
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:21:58pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

George Zimmerman wasn’t tried in Oregon.

really good point. Sad but true.

130
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:22:06pm

re: #125 William Lewis

We have an infestation in the north woods of Wisconsin. They are why I have a concealed carry license.

Rural areas of Western states are the places these types like to hide. Survivalists like the open space and “rugged” feel.

131
Kryptik: Just Done With It.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:22:13pm

re: #111 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m thinking it may well happen BEFORE Nov. 8.

And I’m fully bracing for this kind of bullshit ON Nov. 8, terrifying thought as that is now.

132
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:22:41pm
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Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:22:44pm

re: #128 Frankie Five Angels

Thank you!

134
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:22:56pm
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Tigger2  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:23:03pm

re: #89 Tigger2

He used a corps from a civil war photo.

Here it is it’s from the Gettysburg

battlefield.

136
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:23:19pm

re: #130 thedopefishlives

Rural areas of Western states are the places these types like to hide. Survivalists like the open space and “rugged” feel.

Yeah. I noticed that as well.

137
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:24:06pm

Do we know the rate of which the jury voted yet? Like 11-1 with one hold out or did all 12 vote to acquit?

138
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:24:15pm

re: #130 thedopefishlives

Rural areas of Western states are the places these types like to hide. Survivalists like the open space and “rugged” feel.

Not to mention lots of space to shoot their Penis Extensions of Liberty and to cook meth.

139
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:24:31pm

re: #132 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yep, it’s thinking about stuff like that just has me really upset.

140
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:25:04pm

re: #134 The Vicious Babushka

5 hours of deliberation for a not guilty verdict? I think that’s evidence that at least one juror started deliberations with “Not guilty, and nothing you can say will persuade me”.

No honest attempt to rationalize away all that evidence would have taken so little time.

141
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:25:39pm

re: #89 Tigger2

He used a corps from a civil war photo.

HURR HURR WHITE MEN DIED TO END SLAVERY!!!!! THEIRFOAR RASSIZM DOES NOT ECKZIST1!!!111!! GOTCHA LIBTARD!!1!!1!!!

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:26:12pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

You may find it interesting to research Oregon’s history regarding its state constitution and exclusion laws.

143
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:26:41pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Do we know the rate of which the jury voted yet? Like 11-1 with one hold out or did all 12 vote to acquit?

The one holdout was on one charge for Ryan Bundy.

144
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:26:44pm

Gus is quitting Twitter, I guess. Maybe we’ll see him around here more often!

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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:26:51pm

Bonus wingnut points for having “Deplorable Gone Galt” as a user name.

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jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:27:17pm
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nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:27:19pm

re: #140 EPR-radar

5 hours of deliberation for a not guilty verdict? I think that’s evidence that at least one juror started deliberations with “Not guilty, and nothing you can say will persuade me”.

No honest attempt to rationalize away all that evidence would have taken so little time.

I am wondering whether one of the women might have a strong relationship to the local white supremacists and they made sure to get her onto the jury as a “clean skin”.

148
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:28:16pm

couple of hours ago at Standing Rock:

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:29:18pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

You may find it interesting to research Oregon’s history regarding its state constitution and exclusion laws.

Oh yes, I knew about that. It shows you even in places where slavery was abolished that racism was still a problem.

150
CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:29:34pm

re: #36 allegro

My gob is smacked so hard. This is more terrifying than Trump. In combination it’s… time to start drinking.

Jut in case you didn’t see it the other day—made me think of you: littlegreenfootballs.com

151
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:29:35pm
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Belafon  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:29:56pm

I think what this shows is that Eastern Oregon/Washingon and Parts of Idaho are basically the same as the Pashtun area of Afghanistan. I’ve seen stories that sheriffs there think they are the only law, and that the federal government has no authority in the area.

It might be time for the government to take a huge interest in managing its property.

153
makeitstop  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:30:17pm

re: #105 Stanley Sea

Jenner or anyone. Can you link me the Hillary ad of the undocumented family & the little girl? I’m done searching, too many bizarre RWNJ Hillary videos to go through.

Look for Joss Wheedon. He made that one.

154
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:30:33pm
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whitebeach  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:30:56pm

re: #130 thedopefishlives

Rural areas of Western states are the places these types like to hide. Survivalists like the open space and “rugged” feel.

These types prefer rural areas for various reasons, but I think the main one is that they hate people who aren’t exactly like them and so they go to places where they can avoid contact with such people. Cities and even suburbs won’t do the trick.

156
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:31:17pm

re: #151 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Could you tell that
the empty quivered,
Brown skinned Indian on the banks
That were crowded and narrow,
Held a broken arrow?

157
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:32:14pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:32:15pm

re: #155 whitebeach

These types prefer rural areas for various reasons, but I think the main one is that they hate people who aren’t exactly like them and so they go to places where they can avoid contact with such people. Cities and even suburbs won’t do the trick.

Yeah those areas are much less diverse than the country as a whole is. It also re-enforces their idea of voter fraud because no one they knew is supporting Obama/Hillary/Democrats so ergo it must be fraud.

159
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:32:35pm

Who likes the new font?

160
Whack-A-Mole  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:32:58pm

This verdict just legitimized the forceful, violent takeover of government buildings and lands in the eyes of those who want to overthrow current government and enforce their own twisted version of it.

Groups of nutjobs across the country are salivating tonight at the thought that they can do this without consequence.

How do you put this genie back into the bottle? There has to be a way or America as we know it is gone. America cannot be America, one nation, if all of these nutjob groups are allowed to claim their own little fiefdoms and enforce their own version of law throughout it.

161
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:33:11pm

re: #157 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Rubio’s a fucking wimp. He needs to be defeated. Unfortunately, I hear that race isn’t one of the DSCC’s top priorities. Marco should have just resigned. It’s not like he took his job as a senator seriously anyhow.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:33:21pm
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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:33:22pm
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Bubblehead II  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:33:55pm

Night Lizards.

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CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:34:12pm

re: #89 Tigger2

He used a corps from a civil war photo.

Yeah, I figured that’s what is was by the clothing. Sending a not very subtle message.

166
Eric The Fruit Bat  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:34:40pm

re: #9 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep: “If you’re white, yer all right. If you’re black-stand back!”

167
nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:35:26pm

citylab.com

The allegations may seem at odds with the reputation of this city known for its progressivism. But many African Americans in Portland say they’re not surprised when they hear about racial incidents in this city and state. That’s because racism has been entrenched in Oregon, maybe more than any state in the north, for nearly two centuries. When the state entered the union in 1859, for example, Oregon explicitly forbade black people from living in its borders, the only state to do so. In more recent times, the city repeatedly undertook “urban renewal” projects (such as the construction of Legacy Emanuel Hospital) that decimated the small black community that existed here. And racism persists today. A 2011 audit found that landlords and leasing agents here discriminated against black and Latino renters 64 percent of the time, citing them higher rents or deposits and adding on additional fees. In area schools, African American students are suspended and expelled at a rate four to five times higher than that of their white peers.

All in all, historians and residents say, Oregon has never been particularly welcoming to minorities. Perhaps that’s why there have never been very many. Portland is the whitest big city in America, with a population that is 72.2 percent white and only 6.3 percent African American.

“I think that Portland has, in many ways, perfected neoliberal racism,” Walidah Imarisha, an African American educator and expert on black history in Oregon, told me.

168
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:35:33pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

Bonus wingnut points for having “Deplorable Gone Galt” as a user name.

[Embedded content]

I can’t believe that thing was not already blocked, but it’s blocked now.

169
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:36:08pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:36:15pm

I remember the excuses for the officer shooting Tamir Rice unprovoked were “Well they didn’t know if he had a real gun or not.” These guys. They knew they were armed with real weapons and they not only with one exception are unharmed but acquitted on weapons charges. Please white conservatives shut your fucking mouths when denying that there’s racial problems in our society.

171
Eric The Fruit Bat  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:36:17pm

re: #41 jaunte

As I said downstairs: hopefully this little stunt will result in censure or disbarrment from the US courts for this sovcit attorney.

172
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:36:58pm

Trump gonna be pissed. CNN all over Pence’s plane while he’s silent in a little box on the right of the screen.

173
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:37:44pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

Trump gonna be pissed. CNN all over Pence’s plane while he’s silent in a little box on the right of the screen.

Of course, he was jealous that Pence did better than him in the debate too. He’s a petty asshole. Pence deserves him though.

174
FormerDirtDart  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:37:56pm
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nickzi  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:38:03pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

Trump gonna be pissed. CNN all over Pence’s plane while he’s silent in a little box on the right of the screen.

He’ll just have to cuddle his own special swastika comfort blankie on his ownsome for a while.

176
Brian J.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:39:39pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

And here we go:

[Embedded content]

Shawna is one of the defendants just found not guilty.

This is likely to encourage the federal government not to leave the possibility of a trial in future encounters.

177
Eric The Fruit Bat  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:40:07pm

re: #169 Backwoods_Sleuth

There was protest at the Hennepin County offices a few days ago about this very issue.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:42:28pm
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ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:42:42pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

George Zimmerman wasn’t tried in Oregon.

It IS a United States problem.

And Patriot, Sovereign Citizen type groups and thinking are all over. The internet helps…no different than ISIS in recruitment.

180
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:42:43pm

ouch

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Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:42:45pm
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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:43:18pm
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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:43:33pm

So it looks like the Bundys will face similar charges in NV in relation to the Bundy Ranch affair. Jury nullification is a real threat in that case as well.

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Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:43:34pm

re: #169 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

ALL this shit is on POTUS’s plate. Trump couldn’t deal. We’d have Ivanka or Boris handling it.

Please.

185
Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:44:08pm

re: #159 The Vicious Babushka

Who likes the new font?

Just testing it. Now reverted to the one we know and love. Of course when I first installed this one a lot of people didn’t love it either. Font changes can cause trauma.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:44:16pm

re: #178 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

technically not free just yet…

187
majii  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:44:30pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

“Rubio’s a fucking wimp. He needs to be defeated. Unfortunately, I hear that race isn’t one of the DSCC’s top priorities.”

I read on the Maddow Blog about an hour ago that Sen. Reid is sending millions to FL to attempt to “retire” Rubio since Schumer won’t do anything to assist Murphy. Steve Benen noted in the article that Schumer decided not to help Murphy but didn’t say why he made this choice. This is why when Sen. Reid suggested Schumer as his pick to lead Senate Dems after he retires, I was extremely disappointed. I like Sen. Schumer, but sometimes the decisions he makes don’t make sense to me. If there is any possible way Rep. Murphy has a real shot at ridding the Senate of Rubio, I think he should be strongly supported in his goal to do it. I plan to donate to his campaign in a few days. I have to wait because my retirement check isn’t deposited until the end of each month, and I bought my daughter a new car a couple weeks ago and put a rather large down payment on it.

188
allegro  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:44:30pm

re: #150 CuriousLurker

Jut in case you didn’t see it the other day—made me think of you: littlegreenfootballs.com

Ohhh too cute! Yeah, I would do that. LOL

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b.d.  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:45:01pm
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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:45:08pm

re: #185 Charles Johnson

Just testing it. Now reverted to the one we know and love. Of course when I first installed this one a lot of people didn’t love it either. Font changes can cause trauma.

I like it.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:46:08pm

It took a while to get used to the “off center” comments but I don’t even notice it any more.

192
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:21pm

re: #182 The Vicious Babushka

The link in the tweet doesn’t work.

I don’t wanna know prob. I feel like the only democrat in my hood.

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majii  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:23pm

re: #167 nickzi

“The allegations may seem at odds with the reputation of this city known for its progressivism. But many African Americans in Portland say they’re not surprised when they hear about racial incidents in this city and state. That’s because racism has been entrenched in Oregon, maybe more than any state in the north, for nearly two centuries.”

My youngest brother lives in Seattle, Washington. My niece was offered a full scholarship to attend a college in Oregon, but she turned it down because my brother knew how many undercover racists lived in the state and didn’t want my niece to have any opportunity to run into one of them.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:31pm

gaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

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CleverToad  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:33pm

re: #130 thedopefishlives

Rural areas of Western states are the places these types like to hide. Survivalists like the open space and “rugged” feel.

And the Western myth that keeps insisting rugged individualists settled the Frontier West all by their ownselves — never mind the Homestead Act, the cavalry, the artificially low prices for the extraction industries that persist to this day, the ridiculously low grazing fees for BLM land, etc.

196
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:40pm

re: #187 majii

“Rubio’s a fucking wimp. He needs to be defeated. Unfortunately, I hear that race isn’t one of the DSCC’s top priorities.”

I read on the Maddow Blog about an hour ago that Sen. Reid is sending millions to FL to attempt to “retire” Rubio since Schumer won’t do anything to assist Murphy. Steve Benen noted in the article that Schumer decided not to help Murphy but didn’t say why he made this choice. This is why when Sen. Reid suggested Schumer as his pick to lead Senate Dems after he retires, I was extremely disappointed. I like Sen. Schumer, but sometimes the decisions he makes don’t make sense to me. If there is any possible way Rep. Murphy has a real shot at ridding the Senate of Rubio, I think he should be strongly supported in his goal to do it. I plan to donate to his campaign in a few days. I have to wait because my retirement check isn’t deposited until the end of each month, and I bought my daughter a new car a couple weeks ago and put a rather large down payment on it.

Yeah Schumer just baffles me sometimes. I am glad Harry Reid is helping out Murphy. I’m particularly interested in the Murphy and Kander races in Florida and Missouri because both are such young guys. It would be quite a nice notch for Murphy’s resume if he could have Allan West and Marco Rubio on his defeated list. I admittingly don’t know too much about him but I cannot stand Rubio for the way he’s so blatantly used his Senate seat as a resume item rather than actually working hard at his job in the Senate the way then Senators Obama, Biden, Kaine, and Clinton have.

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Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:42pm

re: #53 Whack-A-Mole

How? How in the hell does this happen? Did the prosecution so utterly fail to vet the jury pool that they let it be filled with insane people?

Federal cases like this may need to be prosecuted in another state entirely.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:48:49pm
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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:49:09pm

My mentions would be an absolute cluster fuck right now if I hadn’t blocked well over 10K accounts already.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:50:05pm

re: #195 CleverToad

And the Western myth that keeps insisting rugged individualists settled the Frontier West all by their ownselves — never mind the Homestead Act, the cavalry, the artificially low prices for the extraction industries that persist to this day, the ridiculously low grazing fees for BLM land, etc.

The Transcontinental railroad too. I don’t doubt that the people who settled the West worked hard but they were not the rugged individualists that folklore makes them out to be. Kind of reminds me of how Texans have an over-inflated opinion about their role in history oto.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:50:43pm

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

My mentions would be an absolute cluster fuck right now if I hadn’t blocked well over 10K accounts already.

[Embedded content]

Well they could ask Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, and a bunch of other black guys………….

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:51:02pm

on a lighter note:

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Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:51:38pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Militia lives matter… more than anyone else.

I don’t get it. These heavily armed welfare queens took over a federal installation - a national wildlife refuge, did tremendous damage to the site, including Native American artifacts, and did so with intent and planning.

And they were found not guilty.

I don’t get it. Everyone saw them take the place over.

Everyone saw them planning and prepping their way, and calling on others to work with them to stay.

As so many others are pointing out, we’ve got law enforcement using tasers, tear gas, and force to remove Native Americans from a protest against a pipeline. But apparently heavily armed white guys can get away with all kinds criminality.

Fuck.

When African American protesters did this 30 years ago on a Federal reservation in Georgia(with no guns and on land their families had been kicked out of during WW2) they had the book thrown at them.

And they did NOT go free.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:52:25pm

By the way, the Homestead Act and signing the legislation for the Transcontinental Railroad are two of Lincoln’s other great legacies.

205
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:53:19pm
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CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:53:30pm

So these people are saying the system works & it’s fair since the Y’all Qaeda guys were acquitted, so they’ll peacefully accept the results of the election if Von ClownStick loses, right? RIGHT??

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Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:53:54pm
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meteor  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:54:12pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

That dude is suspended. Whew.

209
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:54:25pm

re: #206 CuriousLurker

So these people are saying the system works & it’s fair since the Y’all Qaeda guys were acquitted, so they’ll peacefully accept the results of the election if Von ClownStick loses, right? RIGHT??

That’s a good joke.

210
Trumpkins, Vote Nov. 28th!!  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:55:12pm

Does the Tarp man family have cause to sue for wrongful death?

211
Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:55:47pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:56:07pm

It just shows you the blatant hypocrisy on right wing law and order types like Trump and his supporters. They’re the ones who think it’s perfectly fine to stage an armed uprising on federal property yet they’re also the ones who are no doubt cheering on how the Native American protesters are being treated as well. I’m sick of it man. Sick of right wing hypocrisy.

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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:58:05pm

re: #208 meteor

That dude is suspended. Whew.

Good, I reported him for targeted harassment.

214
Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:59:48pm

That “Christian” guy who tweeted at me that he’d like to see Muslims rape my whole family a couple days ago had his account locked by Twitter for a whole half a day. I’m sure he learned his lesson.

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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 5:59:51pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

I have to put Mrs. Fish’s big brown baby into winter storage without finishing repairs on it for the second straight year. Ugh.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:00:22pm

re: #214 Charles Johnson

That “Christian” guy who tweeted at me that he’d like to see Muslims rape my whole family a couple days ago had his account locked by Twitter for a whole half a day. I’m sure he learned his lesson.

Jesus Christ man. These fucking people.

217
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:00:49pm

re: #213 goddamnedfrank

Good, I reported him for targeted harassment.

And Twitter will reinstate the account tomorrow, because they have no balls.

218
ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:00:51pm

re: #206 CuriousLurker

So these people are saying the system works & it’s fair since the Y’all Qaeda guys were acquitted, so they’ll peacefully accept the results of the election if Von ClownStick loses, right? RIGHT??

It’s a Federal election…so state’s rights, it must be recognized by the local sheriff, show me in the Bible, nuh uh! Not if we don’t want to…we are white, uh right! /

219
Targetpractice  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:00:57pm

So the lesson of the day seems to be that if you want to protest something, come heavily armed and state as loudly as possible that you refuse to recognize the lawful authority of those who try to remove you.

FFS, black men caught with a baggie of weed will see more time behind bars than these goobers will. If that’s not an indictment of our system, I don’t know what is.

220
whitebeach  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:01:30pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

The Transcontinental railroad too. I don’t doubt that the people who settled the West worked hard but they were not the rugged individualists that folklore makes them out to be. Kind of reminds me of how Texans have an over-inflated opinion about their role in history oto.

Even the Mountain Men, supposedly the ruggedest individualists of them all, depended on society for their ability to do their work and survive, from transport such as steamboats that took them West in the first place, to town general stores that supplied them with staples, to the very guns that were their prize possessions, and were also the product of hundreds of years of technological effort and cooperation in cities from China to Europe and in the industrial American East. Worst of all, their entire income, which came from trapping fur-bearing animals such as beaver, depended entirely on what was in fashion in Paris, London, and New York, and when these furs went out of vogue, the Mountain Men were out of business.

221
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:02:20pm

re: #155 whitebeach

These types prefer rural areas for various reasons, but I think the main one is that they hate people who aren’t exactly like them and so they go to places where they can avoid contact with such people. Cities and even suburbs won’t do the trick.

Its the same in South Africa with the hard right Afrikaners, who move out into the bush and set up their own compounds, to keep away from the blacks and the coloreds. Pretty tough to do in a white-minority country, but they manage. I reckon the locals just avoid them for their own safety.

Afrikaners have an entire mythology about South Africa being their promised land, the Voortrekkers fleeing the British like Moses and the Hebrews, and Afrikaners bringing civilization to the heathen natives, because whites (especially Afrikaners) are superior.

222
ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:02:21pm

re: #210 Dr. Lexus

Does the Tarp man family have cause to sue for wrongful death?

I was sort of wondering about that too. He will for sure be treated by the militia types as a god now because he died unjustly. They will make that a big thing.

223
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:02:27pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:02:53pm

re: #219 Targetpractice

So the lesson of the day seems to be that if you want to protest something, come heavily armed and state as loudly as possible that you refuse to recognize the lawful authority of those who try to remove you.

FFS, black men caught with a baggie of weed will see more time behind bars than these goobers will. If that’s not an indictment of our system, I don’t know what is.

Yeah. The Standing Rock Sioux made a big mistake by not bringing lots of guns and in choosing not to be white.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:03:06pm

re: #214 Charles Johnson

That “Christian” guy who tweeted at me that he’d like to see Muslims rape my whole family a couple days ago had his account locked by Twitter for a whole half a day. I’m sure he learned his lesson.

But Vines are outta there…

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:04:07pm

re: #219 Targetpractice

So the lesson of the day seems to be that if you want to protest something, come heavily armed and state as loudly as possible that you refuse to recognize the lawful authority of those who try to remove you. And be white.

FFS, black men caught with a baggie of weed will see more time behind bars than these goobers will. If that’s not an indictment of our system, I don’t know what is.

FTFY

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Tigger2  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:04:46pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:04:58pm

re: #220 whitebeach

Even the Mountain Men, supposedly the ruggedest individualists of them all, depended on society for their ability to do their work and survive, from transport such as steamboats that took them West in the first place, to town general stores that supplied them with staples, to the very guns that were their prize possessions, and were also the product of hundreds of years of technological effort and cooperation in cities from China to Europe and in the industrial American East. Worst of all, their entire income, which came from trapping fur-bearing animals such as beaver, depended entirely on what was in fashion in Paris, London, and New York, and when these furs went out of vogue, the Mountain Men were out of business.

It really brings to mind the fauxrage with Obama’s “you didn’t build that” thing that Romney unsuccessfully tried to use against him. The fact is we’re all dependent on each other in some way. We’ve all had a mentor in some way or someone that made our lives just a bit better. Honestly, I had the individualist cult mindset. I mean some individuality is good I guess but working together is how societies have always worked from the most primitive to the most advanced.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:05:12pm

Governor Kate Brown’s statement on the verdicts:

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:06:25pm
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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:09:04pm

Statement by Sheriff Dave Ward of Harney County, Oregon on the verdicts:

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:09:12pm

re: #230 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

We’re going to look back at this guy and wonder what the fuck the Republican Party was smoking when they nominated him.

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Trumpkins, Vote Nov. 28th!!  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:09:34pm

Any GOP figureheads praising the decision yet?

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stpaulbear  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:09:56pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

Now reaching that point in the presidential election season where I’d rather think about almost anything else. Emery boards. Carburetors.

I went back a couple threads and watched Hillary and Michelle when this news broke.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:09:59pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:10:03pm

re: #231 Anymouse

Statement by Sheriff Dave Ward of Harney County, Oregon on the verdicts:

[Embedded content]

And yet those Bundy brats think our system is tyrannical. If it was the evil system they insist it to be, they’d be dead without trial.

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Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:10:18pm

re: #225 Backwoods_Sleuth

But Vines are outta there…

To be honest I’ve never been a huge fan of Vines. But it really shows priorities when Twitter eliminates Vine instead of dealing with the issue that has lost them two major buy-out offers.

I’m getting myself emotionally prepared to see Twitter go under. They just don’t seem to understand or care about protecting their users from the worst fucking people in the world.

238
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:10:44pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

We’re going to look back at this guy and wonder what the fuck the Republican Party was smoking when they nominated him.

4 years from now, we may well be looking back on Trump as the kind of thinker and statesman no longer able to gain support in the Republican party for being too moderate.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:10:54pm

re: #235 Backwoods_Sleuth

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A) You didn’t win the debate and B) It’s a subjective thing you dolt. But please Donald cry some more about how a poll about a debate proves elections are rigged you big baby.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:11:54pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:12:00pm

re: #238 EPR-radar

4 years from now, we may well be looking back on Trump as the kind of thinker and statesman no longer able to gain support in the Republican party for being too moderate.

You may be right about that and that’s what’s really scary to think. The GOP isn’t going to have a Come to Jesus moment these next four years. I don’t see them nominating a “moderate” like Kasich. I see their base being so filled with rage that they’ll nominate someone like Trump again.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:12:04pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:12:33pm

re: #240 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Hey Bill and Scott, drugs are bad okay. Didn’t Nancy Reagan give you guys any advice?

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Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:13:24pm

re: #203 Scottishdragon

When African American protesters did this 30 years ago on a Federal reservation in Georgia(with no guns and on land their families had been kicked out of during WW2) they had the book thrown at them.

And they did NOT go free.

Can you give link? Want to read about this.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:13:40pm

re: #240 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Wait, what?

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:13:54pm
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Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:14:20pm
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:14:26pm
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plansbandc  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:15:26pm

Twitter dying will be more proof that Libertarian bullshit doesn’t have any practical application in any world. Real or imaginary.

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wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:15:29pm

Despite living in a war zone, kids can still be adorably cute.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:15:29pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Can you give link? Want to read about this.

oregonlive.com

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:15:42pm

re: #247 Ziggy_TARDIS

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Uh Mark, her father’s family’s history in this country goes back to the Revolution, you dumbass.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:16:14pm

re: #245 Blind Frog Belly White

Wait, what?

Apparently they miss it when people find other things to do rather than point and laugh at them.

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Targetpractice  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:16:36pm

re: #247 Ziggy_TARDIS

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Ah, the “sane” Republican in full plumage. I can see now why DF was so supportive of him.

//////

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:17:16pm

re: #250 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Despite living in a war zone, kids can still be adorably cute.

[Embedded content]

And these are the people that Trump and his alt-right shitbirds act like are so evil. I’d be happy to have Bana and her family as neighbors. Hope they stay safe. That situation is just man so awful for all the civilians involved.

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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:17:22pm
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CuriousLurker  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:17:50pm

re: #240 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

LOL, they seem not to realize that most liberals probably have them blocked and never even see their tweets.

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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:17:57pm

dailykos.com

Dumbass Log Cabin Republicans are such a disgrace to humanity. Their latest stunt is coming out against Trump just before the election, after months of providing Trump aid and comfort.

Calling them spineless jellyfish would be a mortal insult to jellyfish.

259
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:18:14pm

Who is Remington Research? I have noticed a lot of their polls recently.

260
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:18:40pm

re: #254 Targetpractice

Ah, the “sane” Republican in full plumage. I can see now why DF was so supportive of him.

//////

He’s pulling a Scott Brown. It is too bad that DF isn’t posting anymore because I’d love to ask him what the fuck Kirk was trying to pull with this shit. I know I wouldn’t get a straight answer. The good news though is Kirk is very likely going down with Trump. DF deserves two Democratic senators like Duckworth and Durbin.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:19:10pm

re: #258 EPR-radar

dailykos.com

Dumbass Log Cabin Republicans are such a disgrace to humanity. Their latest stunt is coming out against Trump just before the election, after months of providing Trump aid and comfort.

Calling them spineless jellyfish would be a mortal insult to jellyfish.

Jellyfish have a use in nature.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:19:45pm

re: #257 CuriousLurker

LOL, they seem not to realize that most liberals probably have them blocked and never even see their tweets.

If I didn’t post here, I’d have no idea who Bill was and I’d only know Adams as the Dilbert guy. These guys give themselves way too much credit.

263
TedStriker  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:19:46pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

To be honest I’ve never been a huge fan of Vines. But it really shows priorities when Twitter eliminates Vine instead of dealing with the issue that has lost them two major buy-out offers.

I’m getting myself emotionally prepared to see Twitter go under. They just don’t seem to understand or care about protecting their users from the worst fucking people in the world.

I find it really odd that Twitter is killing off Vine, which was used to great effect in Ferguson and elsewhere by BLM and other protesters, yet Twitter management has done, with very few exceptions, nothing more than lip service to weeding out the overt racists and bigots from their mainline service.

I’m trying not to go all CT about this, particularly when Twitter is bleeding money and is unable to find a white knight to buy it up, but it sure is coincidental as fuck.

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Targetpractice  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:19:57pm

re: #256 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Tamir Rice: “HIS HAND MOVED FOR A GUN! THE COP WAS AFRAID FOR HIS LIFE!”

Lavoy Finicum: “THERE WAS NO WEAPON IN HIS HAND! AND HE HAD A RIGHT TO HAVE THAT GUN! THOSE COPS ARE MURDERERS!!”

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jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:19:59pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

Mark Kirk is another Republican too ignorant to understand when he makes a racist assumption.

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Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:20:27pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Can you give link? Want to read about this.

Sure.
oregonlive.com

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:20:50pm

re: #265 jaunte

Mark Kirk is another Republican too ignorant to understand when he makes a racist assumption.

Yep. I am glad that Duckworth is beating him considerably at the polls. That one will probably be called early on election night.

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wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:21:34pm

re: #255 HappyWarrior

And these are the people that Trump and his alt-right shitbirds act like are so evil. I’d be happy to have Bana and her family as neighbors. Hope they stay safe. That situation is just man so awful for all the civilians involved.

Someone tweeted a horrific photo from Aleppo of a child’s dismembered arm still holding a school bookbag yesterday or the day before.

I tweeted Bana and her family that if I had a house, they’d be welcome to stay with me. I can’t imagine how they manage to carry on living a halfway normal life there.

269
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:22:17pm

Maybe I used deserve in a harsh sense because even though I have two solid Dem senators in Warner and Kaine, I’d be happy to get what the people of Illinois are getting with Tammy Duckworth and having had Dick Durbin for so long. Illinois still has Rauner but as was said in Some Like It Hot, Nobody’s perfect.

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Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:22:34pm

re: #221 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Its the same in South Africa with the hard right Afrikaners, who move out into the bush and set up their own compounds, to keep away from the blacks and the coloreds. Pretty tough to do in a white-minority country, but they manage. I reckon the locals just avoid them for their own safety.

Afrikaners have an entire mythology about South Africa being their promised land, the Voortrekkers fleeing the British like Moses and the Hebrews, and Afrikaners bringing civilization to the heathen natives, because whites (especially Afrikaners) are superior.

They are an especially racist fucked up people. My Mom was born in Durban in 1936. She always knew the racist apartheid story, well at least that is how it’s been related to me. Prob because she was not from a family of landowners.

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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:23:43pm

re: #265 jaunte

Mark Kirk is another Republican too ignorant to understand when he makes a racist assumption.

That seems unreasonably favorable to me. I find it impossible to believe that any elected Republican official at the Federal level can be honestly ignorant of the bigotry that is the basis of the modern Republican party.

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Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:23:49pm

re: #259 Ziggy_TARDIS

Nevermind. I found something.

Roe’s political career began in 1994, working for then-Missouri State Representative Sam Graves. Following Graves’ election to the Missouri State Senate in 1994 and then the United States Congress in 2000, Roe became Graves’ Chief of Staff. In 2005, Roe left his position with Graves and founded Axiom Strategies, a Republican campaign consulting firm based in Kansas City, Missouri.[14] By 2008, Axiom Strategies had grown into a multimillion-dollar-a-year company.[12] In addition to Axiom Strategies, Roe founded creative agency and direct mail firm Candidate Command and polling and public opinion research company Remington Research Group.[15][16] Roe restructured his business model in August 2013 in order to handle an uptick in business. Axiom’s internal direct mail capability was spun off into a standalone business called Candidate Command, and both the mail firm and Axiom grew by 40%.[16] Roe also owns Capitol Franking Group, which creates franked mail for members of Congress.

Remington seems to be similar to Rasmussen.

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Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:23:55pm

What’s to keep these militia hacks from taking over polling locations on election day? They have at least as much right to those as they do to federal land. Sovereign sheriff nutjobs would be happy to provide the muscle and legal figleaf for such an operation.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:25:00pm

re: #268 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Someone tweeted a horrific photo from Aleppo of a child’s dismembered arm still holding a school bookbag yesterday or the day before.

I tweeted Bana and her family that if I had a house, they’d be welcome to stay with me. I can’t imagine how they manage to carry on living a halfway normal life there.

I really hope they can stay safe. We like to pride ourselves on being a great country. Great countries like this welcome people like her and her family in times like this. And if they like it well enough, I’m okay with them staying here.

275
stpaulbear  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:25:14pm

re: #258 EPR-radar

dailykos.com

Dumbass Log Cabin Republicans are such a disgrace to humanity. Their latest stunt is coming out against Trump just before the election, after months of providing Trump aid and comfort.

Calling them spineless jellyfish would be a mortal insult to jellyfish.

And of course they still think that Hillary is worse. Gay republicans are such selfish assholes.

276
wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:25:27pm

re: #270 Stanley Sea

They are an especially racist fucked up people. My Mom was born in Durban in 1936. She always knew the racist apartheid story, well at least that is how it’s been related to me. Prob because she was not from a family of landowners.

Yah, there’s that detail, too. It’s similar to the relationship between Southern plantation owners and the poor whites living around them.

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Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:25:38pm

Freepers are delirious over this news, sourcing their initial string from their favorite outlet, the official Putin mouthpiece rt.com.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:25:53pm

re: #270 Stanley Sea

They are an especially racist fucked up people. My Mom was born in Durban in 1936. She always knew the racist apartheid story, well at least that is how it’s been related to me. Prob because she was not from a family of landowners.

I never knew your mom was South African. I remember learning about Apartheid in high school watching Cry Freedom and it just made me so sad knowing that our government’s policy was supporting that regime.

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wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:26:09pm

Time to go to the office.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:26:14pm
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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:26:16pm

re: #273 Shiplord Kirel

What’s to keep these militia hacks from taking over polling locations on election day? They have at least as much right to those as they do to federal land. Sovereign sheriff nutjobs would be happy to provide the muscle and legal figleaf for such an operation.

Even if stupidity like this is tried, it seem unlikely to make a difference. Sovcit territory is already deep red, and this shit can’t be done under color of law in more civilized parts of the country.

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FormerDirtDart  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:26:27pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

The runway damage you see at LGA was by design. Not third world infrastructure — actually first world. It’s called EMAS

That’s what I was telling folks almost an hour ago

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jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:27:45pm

re: #271 EPR-radar

After I typed that I thought maybe he was just being what he thinks is “clever,” understanding that racism appeals to his base.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:28:41pm

re: #282 FormerDirtDart

That’s what I was telling folks almost ban hour ago

[Embedded content]

Send her those tweets that show pictures.

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KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:28:47pm

For those interested, here aren’t the federal jury instructions for criminal conspiracy. A key provision which B suggests to me that the prosecutors may have screwed up:

The defendant is charged in [Count _______ of] the indictment with conspiring to _______ in violation of Section _______ of Title ___ of the United States Code. In order for the defendant to be found guilty of that charge, the government must prove each of the following elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

First, beginning on or about [date], and ending on or about [date], there was an agreement between two or more persons to commit at least one crime as charged in the indictment; [and]

Second, the defendant became a member of the conspiracy knowing of at least one of its objects and intending to help accomplish it[.] [; and]

[Third, one of the members of the conspiracy performed at least one overt act [on or after [date]]for the purpose of carrying out the conspiracy.]

A conspiracy is a kind of criminal partnership—an agreement of two or more persons to commit one or more crimes. The crime of conspiracy is the agreement to do something unlawful; it does not matter whether the crime agreed upon was committed.

For a conspiracy to have existed, it is not necessary that the conspirators made a formal agreement or that they agreed on every detail of the conspiracy. It is not enough, however, that they simply met, discussed matters of common interest, acted in similar ways, or perhaps helped one another. You must find that there was a plan to commit at least one of the crimes alleged in the indictment as an object of the conspiracy with all of you agreeing as to the particular crime which the conspirators agreed to commit.

I think it isn’t entirely possible that the prosecutors thought that their easiest case was conspiracy. But those bolded sections could give a jury some space to find reasonable doubt. What confuses me Ian why they would allege conspiracy to impede federal employees burn wouldn’t have impeding federal employees as a separate charge. Conspiracy is something you should throw in as sort of a catch all rather than your primary cause of action

I should note, yes I am a lawyer, but I do not practice criminal law

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:28:50pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Her father’s family goes back further than mine does by a long time but which one of us would be treated as we weren’t real Americas by an alt-right dick or even Kirk by looking at us. To be honest even though I’ve never liked Kirk or bought the image that was tried to be presented to us as “a reasonable moderate”, I am disappointed in this because he should know fucking better as a vet himself.

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Trumpkins, Vote Nov. 28th!!  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:28:59pm

The feds allowed these armed terrorists to remain on the property for weeks and now they get off totally scott free. What kind of incompetent was in charge of prosecution? What a total fucktard.

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Dr. Matt  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:30:23pm
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FormerDirtDart  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:31:09pm

Let’s not forget, 11 defendants have already plead guilty in the Malheur standoff.
Seven more go on trial in February.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:31:28pm

re: #288 Dr. Matt

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Forget Jones, I’m surprised Trump hasn’t gone there yet. Maybe if it was his plane, he’d do it because he probably doesn’t care about Pence. Same thing with Jones.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:31:35pm

re: #288 Dr. Matt

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The Chemtrail equipment made the plane too heavy for the brakes to stop it properly.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:31:44pm

re: #289 FormerDirtDart

Let’s not forget, 11 defendants have already plead guilty in the Malheur standoff.
Seven more go on trial in February.

I did see that as well.

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Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:32:15pm

I have begun to respect Nate Silver again, but I do think he needs to tweak his model. He lets way to much polling that has serious question marks through.

I count 4 that are directly tied to various republican apparatus, (Gravis does polls for Breitbart, the Moonie UPI uses CVoter, then you have Rasmussen, and Remington)

Then you have the online polling which is simply terrible. Google Customer Services and Surveymonkey, I am looking at you.

294
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:33:49pm

I just want this election to be over, and Hillary to win.

This getting me so stressed out, and it is turning me into a terrible person.

295
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:34:21pm
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296
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:34:28pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

Re Vines, I’m prob late to the party, but @broderick - Buzzfeed dude with the vines.

I’ve been laughing a lot tonight & it is welcome.

297
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:35:02pm

re: #238 EPR-radar

4 years from now, we may well be looking back on Trump as the kind of thinker and statesman no longer able to gain support in the Republican party for being too moderate.

Shut UP/Elaine

298
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:35:11pm

re: #293 Ziggy_TARDIS

There’s a good article up on FiveThirtyEight today which alludes to the importance of using the aggregate, instead of relying on individual polls and their relative trustworthiness. Like it or not, the aggregate is probably more accurate than any cherry-picked set of polls, because it is likely to encompass a larger proportion of the total population.

299
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:36:24pm

re: #294 Ziggy_TARDIS

I just want this election to be over, and Hillary to win.

This getting me so stressed out, and it is turning me into a terrible person.

Then why not try a baby step in the right direction?

Stop the broad-brushing nonsense here. That is absolutely within your ability to do. If you don’t stop it, then you simply haven’t tried.

300
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:36:35pm

What in the utter pluperfect fuck is this woowoo shit? Emoji analysis?

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301
KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:36:45pm

re: #285 KGxvi

To follow up on my point, this is a summary of one of the cases cited in the jury instruction:

To prove an agreement to commit a crime, it is not sufficient for the government to prove that the defendant committed the crime in question. It must prove that the defendant agreed with at least one other person to commit that crime. United States v. Loveland, 825 F.3d 555 (9th Cir.2016).

Prosecutors likely failed on the agreement element, if I had to guess

302
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:36:54pm

re: #295 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

One can think that the things Trump and other right wingers have directed her way are disgusting and still think she’s contributed to sexism that has been part of FNC’s bread and butter. By the way, I notice that she shits on Gloria Steinhem for being pro-choice but not a word for pretty much every Republican first lady since Roe who have been Pro-Choice. Betty Ford was staunchly pro-choice. Megyn needs to understand that the operative word in choice has always been choice. If Megyn wants to have kids, no one and I mean no one in the pro-choice movement is telling her she shouldn’t because that’s her choice. She in fact is the one being alienating when she draws false equivalencies like this.

303
makeitstop  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:37:44pm

re: #290 HappyWarrior

Forget Jones, I’m surprised Trump hasn’t gone there yet. Maybe if it was his plane, he’d do it because he probably doesn’t care about Pence. Same thing with Jones.

He did tweet about being ‘right’ that LaGuardia sucks - something that anyone who’s ever flown in or out of there could tell you.

304
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:37:53pm

Cambridge Analytica is so great, just ask Mitt Romney and Ted Cruz!

305
goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:37:59pm

re: #238 EPR-radar

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:04pm

another photo and another person trying to explain:

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307
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:10pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

I never knew your mom was South African. I remember learning about Apartheid in high school watching Cry Freedom and it just made me so sad knowing that our government’s policy was supporting that regime.

As pressure mounted against South Africa’s apartheid regime in the USA, Congress passed a sanctions bill against that nation. President Reagan vetoed the bill, which Congress overrode.

The USA avoided criticism of South Africa at first because of Jim Crow here.

In 1960 the USA banned arms exports after the Sharpsville Massacre, and in 1964 the US Navy discontinued port visits. (My father was in the Navy and made a trip to South Africa before the Navy ceased such operations.)

The USA’s history with South Africa is a bit complicated (like most foreign affairs), a summary can be found a Wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org

308
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:10pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

What in the utter pluperfect fuck is this woowoo shit? Emoji analysis?

[Embedded content]

Sounds like a waste of money to me but please proceed.

309
Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:23pm

re: #281 EPR-radar

Even if stupidity like this is tried, it seem unlikely to make a difference. Sovcit territory is already deep red, and this shit can’t be done under color of law in more civilized parts of the country.

An actual take-over may be far-fetched, but I think the Oafkeepers and other Trumpster “poll watchers” are going to get a lot more aggressive.

310
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:24pm

re: #294 Ziggy_TARDIS

Election or no election you have shown a long pattern of hateful comments here. I and a lot of others are sick and tired of trying to tell you to tone down the fucking hate, to no avail. Your “rural” comment today really chapped my ass, as a guy who has lived almost his entire life in rural areas. In case you didn’t see it downstairs I’ll say it again, fuck you.

311
jaunte  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:31pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

A “psychographic” profile of every voter:

“Do you love being lied to? Can’t get enough self-aggrandizing bullshit? How much would you pay for a 24-hour a day all-bullshit channel?”

312
Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:44pm

re: #301 KGxvi

To follow up on my point, this is a summary of one of the cases cited in the jury instruction:

Prosecutors likely failed on the agreement element, if I had to guess

Whaaa…?

Only if the jury somehow decided that the people at the refuge were not communicating in any fashion whatsoever and spent all their days in silent contemplation.

313
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:38:56pm

re: #305 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Burning Cross-Sweaty MAGA hat 2020!

314
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:39:07pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

Article on it on Wikipedia. Not much there.

315
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:39:33pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

Here’s my analysis of Trump supporters: They are shitlords.

316
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:40:48pm

re: #307 Anymouse

As pressure mounted against South Africa’s apartheid regime in the USA, Congress passed a sanctions bill against that nation. President Reagan vetoed the bill, which Congress overrode.

The USA avoided criticism of South Africa at first because of Jim Crow here.

In 1960 the USA banned arms exports after the Sharpsville Massacre, and in 1964 the US Navy discontinued port visits. (My father was in the Navy and made a trip to South Africa before the Navy ceased such operations.)

The USA’s history with South Africa is a bit complicated (like most foreign affairs), a summary can be found a Wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah a lot of stuff Congress wanted was thwarted by the Reagan admin. See also the Boland Amendment in Latin America. One underrated part of Jimmy Carter’s presidency I think is that the Carter administration was showing more respect to how we were perceived in places like Latin and South America but the Reagan administration reversed a lot of that with their anything goes anti-communism which involved re-upping support for things like the Processo in Argentina or Pinochet in Chile.

317
Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:40:49pm

re: #315 EPR-radar

Here’s my analysis of Trump supporters: They are shitlords.

Worst Guardian of the Galaxy ever.

318
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:40:55pm

re: #312 Scottishdragon

Whaaa…?

Only if the jury somehow decided that the people at the refuge were not communicating in any fashion whatsoever and spent all their days in silent contemplation.

It still sounds like it’s a higher burden of proof to prove conspiracy. That may have been the prosecution’s undoing.

319
Donkey With No Name  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:40:56pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

What in the utter pluperfect fuck is this woowoo shit? Emoji analysis?

[Embedded content]

Someone watched Psycho-Pass and thought it would be a great idea to implement in real life.

320
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:43:05pm
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Something tells me Jim is gonna have one hell of a Stonekettle blog post tomorrow.

321
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:43:58pm

re: #315 EPR-radar

Here’s my analysis of Trump supporters: They are shitlords.

Fuckbarons, Dukeshits, if we want to continue to give them royal attributes.

322
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:06pm

re: #315 EPR-radar

Here’s my analysis of Trump supporters: They are shitlords.

Deplorable shitlords.

323
KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:30pm

re: #312 Scottishdragon

Whaaa…?

Only if the jury somehow decided that the people at the refuge were not communicating in any fashion whatsoever and spent all their days in silent contemplation.

As it says in he has jury instruction i quoted at re: #285 KGxvi

It is not enough, however, that they simply met, discussed matters of common interest, acted in similar ways, or perhaps helped one another.

As I said above, it makes little sense that the prosecutors decided to go with a conspiracy charge without including a charge for the underlying criminal action

324
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:38pm
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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:40pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

Fuckbarons, Dukeshits, if we want to continue to give them royal attributes.

Or we can go back to the original epithet that started it all:

Douchecanoes.

Damn, I haven’t gotten to use that word in a while. Feels natural.

326
Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:43pm

re: #316 HappyWarrior

Yeah a lot of stuff Congress wanted was thwarted by the Reagan admin. See also the Boland Amendment in Latin America. One underrated part of Jimmy Carter’s presidency I think is that the Carter administration was showing more respect to how we were perceived in places like Latin and South America but the Reagan administration reversed a lot of that with their anything goes anti-communism which involved re-upping support for things like the Processo in Argentina or Pinochet in Chile.

Rape and kill some American nuns? Ah, they were lefties anyway. Have some more 5.56 FMJ.

Have a massive rape party and blow away an entire village of Baptist Native Americans way the hell out in the jungle and all the ammo brass lot numbers track right back to fucking Ohio?

No problem, just get some GOP congresscritters to rage about the lefty liberal media and then suggest it is all a commie plot to make Reagan look bad.

Oh yeah, that really did happen.

327
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:44:47pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:45:15pm

re: #317 Scottishdragon

Worst Guardian of the Galaxy ever.

There’s another name you might know me by - Shitlord!

329
Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:45:34pm

re: #318 thedopefishlives

It still sounds like it’s a higher burden of proof to prove conspiracy. That may have been the prosecution’s undoing.

Bullshit.

It was nullification.

330
thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:46:06pm

re: #329 Scottishdragon

Bullshit.

It was nullification.

I’m not going to disagree with you because we just don’t know enough. It’s highly likely that you’re right.

331
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:46:07pm
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teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:46:43pm
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333
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:47:00pm

re: #310 teleskiguy

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

334
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:47:17pm
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335
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:47:20pm
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336
stpaulbear  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:47:45pm

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

What in the utter pluperfect fuck is this woowoo shit? Emoji analysis?

[Embedded content]

Someone is scamming Donald. Good.

337
Blind Frog Belly White  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:48:46pm

re: #336 stpaulbear

Someone is scamming Donald. Good.

But…But…he’s wearing glasses, and a tie, and he looks…SERIOUS!
////

338
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:48:58pm

re: #323 KGxvi

…
As I said above, it makes little sense that the prosecutors decided to go with a conspiracy charge without including a charge for the underlying criminal action

The only way that would make sense is if the underlying crime never happened, so the conspiracy was the only thing that could be charged.

But that’s just nonsense, right? I’m accustomed to ‘banks gone wild’ actually being not illegal, but there must have been some real Federal crimes in the Oregon occupation other than the firearms charges.

339
Scottishdragon  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:50:21pm

I’m out. See you all tomorrow.

340
EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:50:27pm

re: #336 stpaulbear

Someone is scamming Donald. Good.

If I were willing to bathe in a sewer, I could give Donald Trump better analysis of his supporters than anything these grifters could do.

341
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:50:49pm
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Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:52:01pm

Ammo prices have shot up in the last few days.
Cheaper than Dirt.
Wikiarms

RWNJs and conspiraloons have already hoarded billions of rounds of the stuff over the past 8 years. New factories have come online all over the world to supply the demand; including some in such places as Serbia, China, Russia, and Pakistan. Whole suburbs are about to sink under the weight of the stashes. Yet there is no end in sight.

343
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:52:39pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:52:39pm

re: #326 Scottishdragon

Rape and kill some American nuns? Ah, they were lefties anyway. Have some more 5.56 FMJ.

Have a massive rape party and blow away an entire village of Baptist Native Americans way the hell out in the jungle and all the ammo brass lot numbers track right back to fucking Ohio?

No problem, just get some GOP congresscritters to rage about the lefty liberal media and then suggest it is all a commie plot to make Reagan look bad.

Oh yeah, that really did happen.

And what infuriates me about the American right is they really don’t seem to care that really hurt our reputation in Latin and South America. It was all about the anti-communist bullshit. Obama got a lot of boos when he visited Buenos Aires even though the present administration had nothing to do with the Junta but the people there understandably haven’t forgotten that our government financially supported that regime, a regime that forced pregnant political prisoners to give birth and then killed the mothers and stole the children. I really hope that Kaine’s history as a missionary in Latin America can be used to help mend some bridges in Latin America.

345
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:53:01pm

re: #276 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

Yah, there’s that detail, too. It’s similar to the relationship between Southern plantation owners and the poor whites living around them.

Seriously I think it comes down to a basic compassion for others.

Lots of whites on the outskirts still respect the racism of their rich neighbors.

Because as always, me better=you worse.

SA is a lot to think about. When I moved to CA, I had a lot of SA expats clients living in La Jolla (supremely wealthy) who packed their bags and left SA & took their gold at the end of Apartheid. Racist as fuck, who bragged about their escape & welcome to the US.

Then SA had the Truth & Reconciliation, where they put ALL of their legal & government archives online. national.archives.gov.za

346
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:53:20pm

re: #335 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Jim Crow, Jr.

347
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:54:08pm

re: #343 Anymouse

[Embedded content]

SKITTLES!

348
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:54:10pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:55:00pm

re: #348 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Okay, I now seriously expect to accuse Hillary of trying to kill Pence by the time the weekend is over.

350
whitebeach  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:55:17pm

re: #329 Scottishdragon

Bullshit.

It was nullification.

I think so too. Even if they found some pseudolegalistic way to dismiss the conspiracy charges, there simply could not have been the slightest reasonable doubt about the firearms charges. It was nullification pure, simple, and unbelievably crude.

351
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:55:52pm

re: #349 HappyWarrior

Okay, I now seriously expect to accuse Hillary of trying to kill Pence by the time the weekend is over.

Shit, tomorrow morning on Fox & Friends at the latest.

352
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:56:13pm

re: #343 Anymouse

I have seen that reaction from people, and that is why I can be so hateful. It doesn’t help that I still harbor anger about Norway.

353
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:57:09pm

re: #352 Ziggy_TARDIS

It doesn’t help that you harbor anger *period.* And you wonder why you’re isolated and alienated from every Muslim community you participate in.

354
Charles Johnson  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:57:13pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:57:27pm

re: #351 teleskiguy

Shit, tomorrow morning on Fox & Friends at the latest.

Yeah you’re right. Glad I work tomorrow.

356
KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:57:45pm

re: #338 EPR-radar

The only way that would make sense is if the underlying crime never happened, so the conspiracy was the only thing that could be charged.

But that’s just nonsense, right? I’m accustomed to ‘banks gone wild’ actually being not illegal, but there must have been some real Federal crimes in the Oregon occupation other than the firearms charges.

From what I’ve read, the charge was Conspiracy to Impede Federal Employees. I think there was more than enough evidence to suggest that they acted in a way that criminally impeded federal employees from their work. So it really does not make sense to me why that was not included in the charges.

357
Stanley Sea  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:59:00pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

I never knew your mom was South African. I remember learning about Apartheid in high school watching Cry Freedom and it just made me so sad knowing that our government’s policy was supporting that regime.

My Mom has the best story. She left SA & traveled Europe with a Rhodesian friend. They had a Vespa scooter & traveled the continent. (I have photos) Ended up in the South of France - Villefranche-Sur-Mer - 6th (I think) Fleet USA. They both married sailors. Young as hell these kids. Took their wives back to the US. That’s how I became.

358
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 6:59:45pm

re: #352 Ziggy_TARDIS

I have seen that reaction from people, and that is why I can be so hateful. It doesn’t help that I still harbor anger about Norway.

You need to learn how to be the bigger person. We all have anger at these guys. But when you engage in blanketing entire groups or showing as much hatred as many of them have, you’re not helping. Believe me, it infuriates me whenever I hear them talk about things like removing birthright citizenship since that’s something that actually may impact people I love directly. When they talk about rolling back LGBT rights. I get angry for my LGBT friends and family. And yes when they talk crap about Muslims not having the same liberties, I get mad because I’ve had Muslims friends and classmates my entire life.

359
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:01:11pm

re: #357 Stanley Sea

My Mom has the best story. She left SA & traveled Europe with a Rhodesian friend. They had a Vespa scooter & traveled the continent. (I have photos) Ended up in the South of France - Villefranche-Sur-Mer - 6th (I think) Fleet USA. They both married sailors. Young as hell these kids. Took their wives back to the US. That’s how I became.

That’s a really cool story. Did your mom’s folks and extended family stay in SA or eventually join your mom here in the US? It really is so sad that SA has such an ugly history because it really is a beautiful country.

360
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:01:22pm

re: #349 HappyWarrior

Okay, I now seriously expect to accuse Hillary of trying to kill Pence by the time the weekend is over.

The Deplorables on twitter are already ON IT.

361
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:02:09pm

re: #360 Backwoods_Sleuth

The Deplorables on twitter are already ON IT.

Get your tin foil hats here, tin foil hats here!

362
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:03:13pm

re: #352 Ziggy_TARDIS

I have seen that reaction from people, and that is why I can be so hateful. It doesn’t help that I still harbor anger about Norway.

I can relate, being both an atheist and a liberal when I was in the military. However, I am not hateful about it. I just try to live my life in such a way that shows those who are misinformed about both atheists and liberals that they are wrong.

Amongst other things, that did help me in my minor political career here in about the reddest House district in the nation. My village and my county cannot square what they are told about liberals and atheists, and who they live with as a neighbour.

363
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:03:57pm

OT but the paralegal part time job is going great. Haven’t felt more confident in years due to working again and working on my anxiety. It’s making me less impulsive, more patient, and in general less on edge.

364
William Lewis  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:04:44pm

re: #361 HappyWarrior

Get your tin foil hats here, tin foil hats here!

I’ve taken to responding to the dude bro CT’s at the one gun site I frequent with “I really should have bought stock in Reynolds Aluminium this year.”

365
KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:05:14pm

re: #338 EPR-radar

The only way that would make sense is if the underlying crime never happened, so the conspiracy was the only thing that could be charged.

But that’s just nonsense, right? I’m accustomed to ‘banks gone wild’ actually being not illegal, but there must have been some real Federal crimes in the Oregon occupation other than the firearms charges.

For what it’s worth, here’s the relevant code section on impeding federal employees (18 USC 111):

(a)In General.—Whoever—

(1) forcibly assaults, resists, opposes, impedes, intimidates, or interferes with any person designated in section 1114 of this title while engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties; or

(2) forcibly assaults or intimidates any person who formerly served as a person designated in section 1114 on account of the performance of official duties during such person’s term of service,

shall, where the acts in violation of this section constitute only simple assault, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, and where such acts involve physical contact with the victim of that assault or the intent to commit another felony, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

(b)Enhanced Penalty.—
Whoever, in the commission of any acts described in subsection (a), uses a deadly or dangerous weapon (including a weapon intended to cause death or danger but that fails to do so by reason of a defective component) or inflicts bodily injury, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

It would seem like they have enough to establish elements of subsection (1), and they might even have been able to invoke the enhanced penalties. So, really, it doesn’t make sense, and I’d be curious as to what the calculus was in this decision.

366
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:05:36pm

re: #362 Anymouse

I can relate, being both an atheist and a liberal when I was in the military. However, I am not hateful about it. I just try to live my life in such a way that shows those who are misinformed about both atheists and liberals that they are wrong.

Amongst other things, that did help me in my minor political career here in about the reddest House district in the nation. My village and my county cannot square what they are told about liberals and atheists, and who they live with as a neighbour.

And that’s all that you really can do. I do live in a purple county but my area is quite Republican and I know plenty of Trump supporters. I just live my life to best way I can and show them by example that their idea of what an average liberal is wrong. I don’t wear my political beliefs on my sleeves but I’ll definitely speak up for them if I feel I ahve to.

367
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:05:42pm
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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:05:53pm

re: #363 HappyWarrior

Good for you!

I need to start working on my stress levels. Over the last couple of months, and especially within the last week and a half, my job has been driving me crazy. The last week and a half, the rest of my project team has been on vacation and on-site with another client, leaving me alone holding the bag, and it’s been hell. I need a vacation or at least some serious catch-up sleep.

369
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:05:57pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:06:17pm

re: #364 William Lewis

I’ve taken to responding to the dude bro CT’s at the one gun site I frequent with “I really should have bought stock in Reynolds Aluminium this year.”

Ha, that’s good.

371
Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:07:04pm

re: #369 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Holy fucking shit. There’s no way he actually said that, right?

372
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:07:38pm

re: #371 Timothy Watson

Holy fucking shit. There’s no way he actually said that, right?

he did

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Skandal  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:07:46pm
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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:08:01pm

re: #352 Ziggy_TARDIS

I have seen that reaction from people, and that is why I can be so hateful. It doesn’t help that I still harbor anger about Norway.

Someone in the US could reasonably still be angry about 9/11, and that would not justify their anti-Muslim bigotry. You’ve probably made that exact argument yourself.

Now turn it around and apply it to your own actions.

Honestly, this is not difficult.

375
Kragar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:08:14pm
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Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:08:31pm

re: #353 teleskiguy

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:08:46pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:08:48pm

re: #371 Timothy Watson

Holy fucking shit. There’s no way he actually said that, right?

Apparently he did. Kirk should be embarrassed. I mean as I said I never thought too highly of him but I thought he was at least above acting like Joe Walsh.

379
KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:09:03pm

re: #365 KGxvi

That is, of course, unless they couldn’t prove the second part, which is at least simple assault of a federal employee. In which case, they had to go with conspiracy, and perhaps could not prove that they intended to impede federal employees in a way that would have led to at least a simple assault? In which case, there had to be a better provision to charge them under, at least criminal trespassing?

I just don’t know.

380
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:09:11pm

re: #374 EPR-radar

Someone in the US could reasonably still be angry about 9/11, and that would not justify their anti-Muslim bigotry. You’ve probably made that exact argument yourself.

Now turn it around and apply it to your own actions.

Honestly, this is not difficult.

Zactly.

381
Trumpkins, Vote Nov. 28th!!  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:10:24pm

The system is stacked so every right wingers whim is catered to and the rest of you can go eat shit.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:10:43pm
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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:10:50pm

re: #379 KGxvi

That is, of course, unless they couldn’t prove the second part, which is at least simple assault of a federal employee. In which case, they had to go with conspiracy, and perhaps could not prove that they intended to impede federal employees in a way that would have led to at least a simple assault? In which case, there had to be a better provision to charge them under, at least criminal trespassing?

I just don’t know.

IANAL, but I’m close enough to the profession to recognize this pattern. :-)

384
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:11:28pm
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Germany is doing Green Energy wrong.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:12:12pm

re: #378 HappyWarrior

Apparently he did. Kirk should be embarrassed. I mean as I said I never thought too highly of him but I thought he was at least above acting like Joe Walsh.

Someone take my computer away before I start harassing DF on Twitter.

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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:13:13pm

re: #385 Timothy Watson

Someone take my computer away before I start harassing DF on Twitter.

Why? That’s pretty much performing a public service.

387
The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:13:51pm

LOL

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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:14:06pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:14:46pm

re: #382 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

In a way honestly Kirk’s lame shit is even worse than what George Allen did. Duckworth is a veteran, a disabled one at that. Kirk really showed himself to be an ugly man with those comments. Duckworth’s family has had generations of people who have fought for this country. Her family on her father’s side in fact has been here longer than mine but if Kirk looked at either of us, he would assume that my family and not Duckworth’s was the one that served with Washington even though most of my family has been here only since after the Civil War and in some cases into the early 20th century. Duckworth was already going to wallop Kirk and I hope this results in a rout that he doesn’t even consider a rematch in six years.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:15:04pm

re: #374 EPR-radar

Someone in the US could reasonably still be angry about 9/11, and that would not justify their anti-Muslim bigotry. You’ve probably made that exact argument yourself.

Now turn it around and apply it to your own actions.

Honestly, this is not difficult.

I’m still pretty angry about the mass murder at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, but I don’t blame all of Michigan for it because Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh were from Michigan. (That and I would have to hate myself since I am also originally from Michigan.)

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:15:13pm

re: #385 Timothy Watson

Someone take my computer away before I start harassing DF on Twitter.

Ha, don’t be so hard on him. It sucks finding out your heroes are shitbirds.

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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:15:45pm

re: #391 HappyWarrior

Ha, don’t be so hard on him. It sucks finding out your heroes are shitbirds.

I more pity him. It’s a hard life, living so deeply in willful ignorance. Believe me, I know full well.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:16:03pm

I am not sure why, but I honestly needed to see the video to believe.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:16:18pm

re: #387 The Vicious Babushka

LOL

[Embedded content]

I had honestly forgotten Kirk did that. Kirk’s like what I said about McCain the other day. He operates only to protect his image. He’ll do some sensible things i.e. his behavior on Judge Garland but it’s done to save his ass rather than real principle.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:16:31pm

re: #393 Timothy Watson

I am not sure why, but I honestly needed to see the video to believe.

Mark Kirk sinks to a new low

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Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:16:54pm

re: #364 William Lewis

I’ve taken to responding to the dude bro CT’s at the one gun site I frequent with “I really should have bought stock in Reynolds Aluminium this year.”

U+KU1+Iu/Eq/bxfBWR6/tHQZDKwEJPtSTJtjzg8WzRIooc7dm08wzWXVIMIwJi6Ee6P2dD0uMKmGyU3H13NEFosMMlsYarU14s/+kgDn8Oz8nGD9LvHVpniFuhO86+KGI2nlwPa0DxxiHg7DtetaB4dVm2MqRIyHqUM14Mj8sIhfffNfebBLR+dZ14ITUHh8bm14FSTKpf36Vo+G3eXs8h4HSGOY9QmjE59rPF85M4tBzXvmoAHX/DbzqmIEQUr8fGRlsMti/5WZdnAmGarMOueKBj8fjUcBJko1vyv8ud/Zmydf+kN5Ga2TT5Dt1OInI8KJsb/HW1k=

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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:16:58pm

re: #391 HappyWarrior

Ha, don’t be so hard on him. It sucks finding out your heroes are shitbirds.

Let’s crisp this up a bit: It sucks when it becomes impossible to deny that your heroes are shitbirds.

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GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:17:43pm

re: #282 FormerDirtDart

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teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:18:03pm

re: #393 Timothy Watson

I am not sure why, but I honestly needed to see the video to believe.

It’s their word against ours. If there’s no video then it didn’t happen (skiers say this shit, very annoying).

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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:18:27pm

re: #398 GlutenFreeJesus

It’s getting to the point where I’m invoking Arthur C. Clarke’s Law distressingly often when right-wing nutjobs are concerned.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:18:50pm

re: #395 Timothy Watson

[Embedded content]

Video

What’s also fucked up is she makes a great point too about how we should be discussing war in the Senate.

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Whack-A-Mole  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:19:05pm

re: #365 KGxvi

For what it’s worth, here’s the relevant code section on impeding federal employees (18 USC 111):

It would seem like they have enough to establish elements of subsection (1), and they might even have been able to invoke the enhanced penalties. So, really, it doesn’t make sense, and I’d be curious as to what the calculus was in this decision.

The code and the law really don’t matter because they weren’t criminals ‘breaking the law’.

They were setting up their own laws, courts, and system of government up there in Oregon in their area of control.

As I argued at the time, that is not criminality, it was a direct attempt to overthrow the sovereignty of the United States and replace it with their own form of government. This should have never seen the inside of a civilian courtroom. They were not criminals, they were enemy combatants and I feel they should have been treated as such.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:19:06pm

re: #393 Timothy Watson

I am not sure why, but I honestly needed to see the video to believe.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:19:13pm
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FormerDirtDart  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:19:39pm
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No Depression  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:19:58pm

Newt Gingrich on Hannity. Those two men are more full of shit than New York City’s sewer system.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:05pm

re: #397 EPR-radar

Let’s crisp this up a bit: It sucks when it becomes impossible to deny that your heroes are shitbirds.

I’m being a wiseass heh but yeah. It’s impossible to deny. Duckworth had a great point there and she really could talk with a lot of authority there not just as a veteran herself but a daughter and descendant of many. Really pathetic response on Kirk’s part even without the racism.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:24pm

re: #403 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yeah, I had already watched it by the time I posted that comment. Forgot to add the link and the phrasing of my comment was a little off.

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thedopefishlives  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:38pm

re: #402 Whack-A-Mole

I’m going to plead the Lincoln Defense on this one. Namely, treating these men as enemy combatants would have legitimized their cause. By arresting them and trying them under Federal law, it is an explicit refusal to acknowledge that they were attempting to exercise sovereign control of government property.

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majii  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:46pm

re: #378 HappyWarrior

“Apparently he did. Kirk should be embarrassed. I mean as I said I never thought too highly of him but I thought he was at least above acting like Joe Walsh.”

For persons like Mark Kirk, it’s easy to dismiss the contributions of your fellow Americans if they don’t look like them. A case in point happened when FL Michelle Obama had the gall to mention that the WH and other federal buildings in D.C. were built with the help of enslaved black laborers. Bill O’Reilly, the self-styled historian, was one of the first with a prominent media platform to attempt to distort the record by claiming that the federal government provided, food, clothing, and housing to the enslaved laborers. He just couldn’t accept the contribution enslaved laborers made to this nation, so he had to make is seem that the feds were taking care of them when nothing of the sort happened. If anyone was guaranteed pay for their labor, it was the enslaved laborers’ owners. I can well imagine that when Kirk made the comment, he had no idea how demeaning and racist it was. He had to remind Illinois voters that Ms. Duckworth is to be viewed as an outsider based on her heritage. After all, she doesn’t look like him, so she must not be a true American patriot like he is.

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:47pm

re: #402 Whack-A-Mole

They took up arms against the Federal government, defined as treason in the Constitution they claim to love so much. In my opinion it should have been tried as treason.

However, the government is not big on treason trials (see end of the Civil War for precedent).

412
Reality Based Steve  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:20:48pm

I don’t have internet at the house tonight, so I’ve put my phone into hot-spot mode and connecting with that. I think my cable modem has finally died, it does the power up, receive, tx then all the lights flash and it starts up again. Spent 30 minutes on the phone with Charter, and it’s just not working. There are no outages in the area, so it’s probably the modem.

Of course, the thing is about 10 years old at a minimum, so I probably got my moneys worth out of it. Guess I’ll go down to Best Buy and get a new one tomorrow.

Next thing you know, I’ll have to replace my 4 year old Droid smart phone.

RBS

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:21:13pm

re: #404 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I guess Mark Kirk’s been hanging out with Joe Walsh recently. What a pathetic asshole. He knows he’s losing that race so he resorts to shit like that.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:21:14pm

re: #406 No Depression

Newt Gingrich on Hannity. Those two men are more full of shit than New York City’s sewer system.

Newt had to run to daddy after mommy asked him all those hard questions.

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BigPapa  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:21:56pm
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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:22:28pm

re: #410 majii

“Apparently he did. Kirk should be embarrassed. I mean as I said I never thought too highly of him but I thought he was at least above acting like Joe Walsh.”

For persons like Mark Kirk, it’s easy to dismiss the contributions of your fellow Americans if they don’t look like them. A case in point happened when FL Michelle Obama had the gall to mention that the WH and other federal buildings in D.C. were built with the help of enslaved black laborers. Bill O’Reilly, the self-styled historian, was one of the first with a prominent media platform to attempt to distort the record by claiming that the federal government provided, food, clothing, and housing to the enslaved laborers. He just couldn’t accept the contribution enslaved laborers made to this nation, so he had to make is seem that the feds were taking care of them when nothing of the sort happened. If anyone was guaranteed pay for their labor, it was the enslaved laborers’ owners. I can well imagine that when Kirk made the comment, he had no idea how demeaning and racist it was. He had to remind Illinois voters that Ms. Duckworth is to be viewed as an outsider based on her heritage. After all, she doesn’t look like him, so she must not be a true American patriot like he is.

He wouldn’t have done that if his opponent was a white guy. He definitely singled Duckworth out because of her heritage. He’s such a weasel.

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EPR-radar  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:22:56pm

re: #414 Timothy Watson

Newt had to run to daddy after mommy asked him all those hard questions.

Hannity is probably very generous with his ball-washing favors for RWNJ dirtbags like Trump and Gingrich.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:23:05pm

MAGICAL BALANCE FAIRY AT THE DEBATES

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:23:10pm

re: #406 No Depression

Newt Gingrich on Hannity. Those two men are more full of shit than New York City’s sewer system.

Oh look, two guys who have been around forever will complain about how “Washington elites” ruin everything.

420
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:24:24pm

re: #412 Reality Based Steve

Next thing you know, I’ll have to replace my 4 year old Droid smart phone.

RBS

I’m still using an almost 5-year-old iPhone 4S. Since I’m still using iOS 5 all it does is phone calls, text messages and email. No Twitter, none of that. I guess I could still take a picture with it.

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No Depression  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:07pm

re: #419 HappyWarrior

Oh look, two guys who have been around forever will complain about how “Washington elites” ruin everything.

Actually they’re talking about how media elites ruin everything. Get it right.

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KGxvi  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:08pm

re: #402 Whack-A-Mole

The code and the law really don’t matter because they weren’t criminals ‘breaking the law’.

They were setting up their own laws, courts, and system of government up there in Oregon in their area of control.

As I argued at the time, that is not criminality, it was a direct attempt to overthrow the sovereignty of the United States and replace it with their own form of government. This should have never seen the inside of a civilian courtroom. They were not criminals, they were enemy combatants and I feel they should have been treated as such.

The law absolutely matters. If you want to argue that they were engaged in rebellion or sedition, then those charges were available - but they would still have to be tried in a civilian court. This is one of the side effects of having the rule of law, some times, people who are guilty as sin are found not guilty.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:25pm

re: #413 HappyWarrior

I guess Mark Kirk’s been hanging out with Joe Walsh recently. What a pathetic asshole. He knows he’s losing that race so he resorts to shit like that.

I’ll never forget that Walsh did this when she ran against him:

While complimenting the reticence of Sen. John McCain to talk about his military service, particularly his prisoner-of-war years in Vietnam, Walsh slammed Duckworth. “Now I’m running against a woman who, my God, that’s all she talks about,” Walsh said. “Our true heroes, it’s the last thing in the world they talk about. That’s why we’re so indebted and in awe of what they’ve done.”

washingtonpost.com

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Eclectic Cyborg  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:35pm

I can’t wait to see the Bundy boys at the next Trump rally…

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makeitstop  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:39pm

My wife sent me a link I had missed - a member of the jury was dismissed last week. He was a former BLM employee and he started off his remarks in the jury room by saying ‘I’m really biased.’ The judge was notified and the juror was removed.

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Shiplord Kirel  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:25:41pm

re: #402 Whack-A-Mole

The code and the law really don’t matter because they weren’t criminals ‘breaking the law’.

They were setting up their own laws, courts, and system of government up there in Oregon in their area of control.

As I argued at the time, that is not criminality, it was a direct attempt to overthrow the sovereignty of the United States and replace it with their own form of government. This should have never seen the inside of a civilian courtroom. They were not criminals, they were enemy combatants and I feel they should have been treated as such.

This is why I think they may try to interfere with the election. In their own depraved minds, they have the same right as the United States to oversee the process, set requirements (“no Mexicans”), and certify the results.

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Timothy Watson  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:26:05pm

More dip-dip from Penn State:

A jury awarded a former Penn State assistant football coach $7.3 million in damages Thursday, finding the university defamed him after it became public that his testimony helped prosecutors charge Jerry Sandusky with child molestation.

Jurors deliberated for about four hours in Mike McQueary’s defamation and misrepresentation lawsuit.

Judge Thomas Gavin still must decide McQueary’s whistleblower claim that he was treated unfairly as the school suspended him from coaching duties, placed him on paid administrative leave, barred him from team facilities and then did not renew his contract shortly after he testified at Sandusky’s 2012 trial.

wtop.com

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:26:14pm

You know though, this again isn’t new. This is what Republicans do to vets who disagree with them. I still remember Ann Coulter mocking Max Cleland’s disability and the trashy ads against him in 2002. The Swift Boat ads against Kerry in 2004. Now, I never planned to vote for John McCain in 2008 but I did and still do respect his military service and I am grateful that neither Obama, Biden, or any of their surrogates mocked his service in the Navy. Too bad Republicans can’t extend the same respect to Democratic vets.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:26:50pm

re: #421 No Depression

Actually they’re talking about how media elites ruin everything. Get it right.

Ah yes, Sean the underdog who is broadcasting his show from his basement using a camera he bought.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:27:30pm

re: #423 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ll never forget that Walsh did this when she ran against him:

washingtonpost.com

Walsh is a disgrace. That man should have never been anywhere near Congress.

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A wild WITHAK appeared!  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:28:57pm

re: #395 Timothy Watson

[Embedded content]

Wow.

Not only did he belittle her family and her service with racism, but that was his only response after she gave a substantive answer to a question.

Shitbird is too good a word for this guy.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:29:12pm

Trump really believes that all his shit-talk about everybody else is “self defense”

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Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:29:21pm
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teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:30:11pm

re: #424 Eclectic Cyborg

I can’t wait to see the Bundy boys at the next Trump rally…

The Bundy boys are still in custody as they face charges in Nevada. But Shawna Cox, Jeff Banta, Kenneth Medenbach, David Lee Fry, and Neil Wampler are all free men tonight.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:30:31pm

re: #433 Anymouse

[Embedded content]

This is pretty funny from the guy who salivates whenever Wikileaks releases shit.

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majii  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:30:32pm

re: #380 HappyWarrior

re: #374 EPR-radar & Happy Warrior

Someone in the US could reasonably still be angry about 9/11, and that would not justify their anti-Muslim bigotry. You’ve probably made that exact argument yourself.

“Now turn it around and apply it to your own actions.”

“Honestly, this is not difficult.”

I have very good reasons I could have used to have become a full-blown racist due to having grown up under Jim Crow, but something saved me. I had progressive-minded parents who emphasized that it is not right to blame all members of a particular group for the actions of one, or a few, member[s.] At the time they were rearing me, they had no assurance that the nation I’d live in as an adult would be very different than the one they grew up in, but they had faith that it would be. This compelled them to teach myself and my siblings some life rules that made me avoid hating and discriminating against other groups of persons. This is exactly why I refuse to discriminate against others for any reason. Why should I when I know what it feels like? I look upon others as being more like me than different from me. This has permitted me to form friendships and relationships with Americans of different races, cultures, religions, etc., and it has made my life richer, and more interesting. Their teachings freed me from the bounds of fear and ignorance, and even though they are no longer with me, I thank them for having had this way of looking at life and at relationships with others.

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GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:32:01pm

Geez. What a fucking day.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:32:11pm

So this fearsome dinosaur evolved into the delicious turkey that we will enjoy next month. Thanks, evolution!

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:32:35pm

re: #431 A wild WITHAK appeared!

Wow.

Not only did he belittle her family and her service with racism, but that was his only response after she gave a substantive answer to a question.

Shitbird is too good a word for this guy.

Yeah, she gave a very good answer and a very personal answer given what she’s sacrificed for our country and that was his only response. I am glad that Illinois voters see through him.

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goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:33:09pm

Good one Rita, I am chastened for sure.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:33:37pm

re: #438 The Vicious Babushka

So this fearsome dinosaur evolved into the delicious turkey that we will enjoy next month. Thanks, evolution!

[Embedded content]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm dakotaraptor stuffing.

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HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:35:18pm

Honestly, the smart and decent answer for Kirk would have been to agree politely with her statement and just explain that him and Duckworth have different positions. There was no reason at all to do what he did unless he thought it was going to get him brownie points from the deplorable wing of the GOP which probably doesn’t trust him much anyhow since he likes to play both sides.

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The Vicious Babushka  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:36:26pm

re: #442 HappyWarrior

Honestly, the smart and decent answer for Kirk would have been to agree politely with her statement and just explain that him and Duckworth have different positions. There was no reason at all to do what he did unless he thought it was going to get him brownie points from the deplorable wing of the GOP which probably doesn’t trust him much anyhow since he likes to play both sides.

Kirk was probably thinking “What can I say that will make me sound like Donald Trump” forgetting that to normal people, Donald Trump always sounds like a total dipshit.

444
Anymouse  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:36:39pm

re: #436 majii

re: #374 EPR-radar & Happy Warrior

Someone in the US could reasonably still be angry about 9/11, and that would not justify their anti-Muslim bigotry. You’ve probably made that exact argument yourself.

“Now turn it around and apply it to your own actions.”

“Honestly, this is not difficult.”

I have very good reasons I could have used to have become a full-blown racist due to having grown up under Jim Crow, but something saved me. I had progressive-minded parents who emphasized that it is not right to blame all members of a particular group for the actions of one, or a few, member[s.] At the time they were rearing me, they had no assurance that the nation I’d live in as an adult would be very different than the one they grew up in, but they had faith that it would be. This compelled them to teach myself and my siblings some life rules that made me avoid hating and discriminating against other groups of persons. This is exactly why I refuse to discriminate against others for any reason. Why should I when I know what it feels like. I look upon others as being more like me than different from me. This has permitted me to form friendships and relationships with Americans of different races, cultures, religions, etc., and it has made my life richer, and more interesting. Their teachings freed me from the bounds of fear and ignorance, and even though they are no longer with me, I thank them for having had this way of looking at life and at relationships with others.

I also spent my early years under Jim Crow, going to a (white) segregated school in Maryland before my mother said “to hell with this” and moved my sister and me to Michigan while my father was deployed.

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GlutenFreeJesus  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:36:55pm

re: #439 HappyWarrior

Yeah, she gave a very good answer and a very personal answer given what she’s sacrificed for our country and that was his only response. I am glad that Illinois voters see through him.

Well. Hopefully we do.

446
goddamnedfrank  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:37:24pm
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447
Belafon  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:37:25pm

re: #373 Skandal

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448
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:38:19pm

re: #445 GlutenFreeJesus

Well. Hopefully we do.

Yeah I’m only going by polls but I have to say that race is one I’m optimistic about. I’m jealous you guys are going to get Duckworth. She’s a hell of a lady.

449
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:38:40pm

re: #446 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

It crossed the Appalachians too Frank.

450
No Depression  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:38:48pm

re: #440 goddamnedfrank

Good one Rita, I am chastened for sure.

[Embedded content]

I honestly think Rosanne might be the most deplorable of the bunch. I hate Trump-supporting “leftists” more than his fascist fans on the right.

451
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:39:24pm

re: #443 The Vicious Babushka

Kirk was probably thinking “What can I say that will make me sound like Donald Trump” forgetting that to normal people, Donald Trump always sounds like a total dipshit.

Yeah I have no doubt he was trying to score points. He just sounded like a total ass.

452
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:41:38pm

re: #451 HappyWarrior

Yeah I have no doubt he was trying to score points. He just sounded like a total ass.

best part was the dead silence when Tammy not only refused to respond, she didn’t even look at him.

453
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:41:47pm

re: #450 No Depression

I honestly think Rosanne might be the most deplorable of the bunch. I hate Trump-supporting “leftists” more than his fascist fans on the right.

The only thing worse than them are those like Susan Sarandon who don’t support Trump per say but make crap claims that HRC’s just as bad or worse. People like Sarandon, Jill Stein, etc aren’t the ones who are going to have their lives negatively impacted by Trump. Speaking of Stein, Joan Walsh ahd a nice article showing how Stein is a big hypocrite in how she expects purity of everyone else but she herself has heavily invested in pharma companies, tobacco, etc. Glad she got exposed. Stein’s a fraud. Her self-righteous bs was annoying before and now it’s down right hypocritical.

454
Reality Based Steve  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:42:07pm

The SovCit and Militia movement are home right now polishing the GunNutz they have all installed on their ‘tacti-cool’ rifles.

There are several active groups around here, and quite frankly they scare me to death. One of the reasons is that back in ‘92 I and about 4 other folks from my unit (medevac) were assigned (without any supporting orders or paperwork) to the US Marshal service to help in their surveillance program at place know as Ruby Ridge Id.

The first day there, (since I was ground support / commo and would be driving around by myself) they (the marshals) gave me a fanny pack that was actually a break-away holster with a 9mm pistol inside. (again, no paperwork, just an request to “don’t lose it please”). When I asked if it was really necessary, they said they felt I should have it, since I’d be out there by my lonesome.

Never had any incidents where I felt threatened, but there were time that I know I was under observation.

I highly doubt that any militia unit would provide any challenge to a well trained infantry squad, but they would be highly effective against soft targets, like Mosques, Housing Units and schools. Right now my internal sensor says that we are going to see an incident like this again, and it’s going to be a lot sooner than later. Probably after the election and before the inauguration. I’m hoping that it just needs to be re-calibrated, but I’m afraid of very dark times ahead.

RBS

455
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:42:39pm

re: #452 Backwoods_Sleuth

best part was the dead silence when Tammy not only refused to respond, she didn’t even look at him.

She handled it better than I would but that’s why she’s who she is and I am me. It didn’t deserve a response anyhow because of how bigoted and stupid it was.

456
BigPapa  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:43:15pm

Pussy Riot’s Nadya Tolokno: Julian Assange Is ‘Connected with the Russian Government’

It was a tough conversation between me and Julian Assange about that when I came to the Ecuadorian Embassy two years ago. We had the conversation and you can’t really blame people for having another position. I understood his position: he’s in a state of war with the American government. He’s smart and charismatic and will use any means to destroy the American government. And we had a conversation if it was really the ethical thing to do that with the hands of another government [Russia] which is, in fact, much worse and a real authoritarian government. Julian Assange is a really good diplomat, so he can basically just dodge direct answers from my questions on that, and gives other answers—as Putin usually does when people ask him directly about some uncomfortable things.

457
Backwoods_Sleuth  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:44:09pm
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458
No Depression  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:44:48pm

re: #453 HappyWarrior

The only thing worse than them are those like Susan Sarandon who don’t support Trump per say but make crap claims that HRC’s just as bad or worse. People like Sarandon, Jill Stein, etc aren’t the ones who are going to have their lives negatively impacted by Trump. Speaking of Stein, Joan Walsh ahd a nice article showing how Stein is a big hypocrite in how she expects purity of everyone else but she herself has heavily invested in pharma companies, tobacco, etc. Glad she got exposed. Stein’s a fraud. Her self-righteous bs was annoying before and now it’s down right hypocritical.

I despise Sarandon and Stein just as much. I don’t differentiate between implicit or explicit support of that sentient clump of drain hair.

459
Ziggy_TARDIS  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:45:02pm

re: #456 BigPapa

Has he committed any crimes we could reasonably prosecute him with that could have him spend the rest of his life in ADX Florence?

460
Mattand  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:45:30pm

Just saw the news about Oregon. I thought Trump had beaten the ability to be shocked and disgusted.

One thing I can’t wrap my head around, regarding the jury: Y’all Queda said their ultimate plan was to “give” the refuge back to the locals. I mean, seriously, how the fuck do reconcile that?

Like the federal government was just going to go, “Well, these guys from NV with the guns said this isn’t federal land anymore. Well played, gentleman”???

I mean, can I go into the Grand Canyon armed to the teeth and declare that anyone can build anything they like there?

Just repeating everyone else, but yeah; if these fuckwits were anything but black, the local police would have shot them to pieces in less than 24 hours.

And, yeah, I will not be shocked if (when?) some conservative/GOP assholes storm into a polling place on Election Day and force minorities at gunpoint to show their papers if they want to vote.

Swear to Christ, I hate thinking this way, but maybe it’s time to start arming myself. Fuck you, Republicans. You’ve proven to be a greater menace over the last seven years than Al Queda or ISIS ever was.

461
Rightwingconspirator  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:46:10pm
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462
teleskiguy  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:47:30pm

re: #457 Backwoods_Sleuth

Let me get this straight. His clients are found not guilty and he throws a hissy fit because the Bundys are due for extradition. He becomes belligerent and has to be tased and taken into custody. This is one of the traitor’s lawyers.

Ooohkay …

463
stpaulbear  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:49:18pm

re: #424 Eclectic Cyborg

I can’t wait to see the Bundy boys at the next Trump rally…

Has anyone got rallies planned for Oregon or Washington before the election?

464
ObserverArt  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:49:46pm

Watching Jools Holland, and on right now is Joanne Shaw Taylor and her band with Jools sitting in on upright piano. They just did a knockout version of “Summertime.” Joanne is a slick guitar player. Never heard of her, but will look further.

And Chrissie and The Pretenders are on with a new album. Dan Auerbach (Yhe Black Keys) produced it and is on the Jools Holland show as a member of The Pretenders.

Good stuff. That is all.

465
majii  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:50:37pm

re: #463 stpaulbear

Has anyone got rallies planned for Oregon or Washington before the election?

Roger Stone announced he’s hosting a “Take America Back” rally in D.C. this weekend.

466
HappyWarrior  Oct 27, 2016 • 7:52:10pm

re: #458 No Depression

I despise Sarandon and Stein just as much. I don’t differentiate between implicit or explicit support of that sentient clump of drain hair.

No doubt. Plus one for sentient clump of drain hair.

467
Bass Reeves  Oct 27, 2016 • 8:00:11pm

re: #323 KGxvi

Umm…I don’t see how the argument is made that at least two people (Ammon and Ryan) in that group did not plan this ahead of time. How far in advance btw do you need it? They announced the takeover at one site, notified law enforcement, and then moved to the site.

If they were protesting AT the site, and THEN decided to just stay, that would be one thing, but this still seems like conspiracy?

468
Eventual Carrion  Oct 28, 2016 • 5:04:03am

re: #242 Anymouse

[Embedded content]

No, but we did get to watch the crime unfold for days.


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