Redefining Reality Down: Trump Surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes Says ‘There’s No Such Thing as Facts’

Redefining reality down
Politics • Views: 43,931

This is why we’re about to have a Trump administration: Trump Surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes Says ‘There’s No Such Thing as Facts’.

Here’s a link to the audio of this unbelievable — and yet all too believable — statement: thedianerehmshow.org

This is truly stunning. The Trump crowd is literally trying to redefine reality down.

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383 comments
1
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 1, 2016 • 6:54:43pm

eppur si muove Facts exist and are true whether you believe them or not.

2
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 6:56:03pm

So by her logic, I can say Trump’s not President and i don’t have to follow any laws he signs? Really I know Trump supporters are stupid and ignorant people but really? Really?

3
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 6:56:49pm
4
Interesting Times  Dec 1, 2016 • 6:59:33pm

Apropos :/

5
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:01:32pm

I went to look up Penzeys Spices. They are located in Dallas, at 635 and Preston for any of you DFW people. I will have to buy something from them.

And when I went to go find references to the letter mentioned in the last thread, I found a gateway pundit post claiming that the company says all Trump voters must be punished, and a similar thing from American Catholic.

6
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:01:47pm

re: #4 Interesting Times

Apropos :/

[Embedded content]

But yet we should try to “understand” these people. Really fuck them if they supported him anyway even though they think he’s untrustworthy and unfit to be President. Actually use your suffrage properly or don’t fucking vote. Goddamn this shit pisses me off more than Trump diehards. At least they know what they wanted. They’ll be disappointed when Trump proves himself ot be a fraud, but they were actually voting for something.

7
makeitstop  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:03:09pm

A year or so of this kind of shit and the Stupids will be ready to believe anything.

Who am I kidding? They’ve been there since the primaries.

8
Joe Bacon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:03:43pm

re: #1 The Vicious Babushka

eppur si muove Facts exist and are true whether you believe them or not.

Bless you for posting those recipes! So beautiful to look at!!!!!!

9
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:04:12pm

re: #4 Interesting Times

Apropos :/

[Embedded content]

Do we let people figure out what happens when you make a fuck-it vote? And the answer is no, I’m going to try to prevent as much damage as possible, but then we’ll still have people who won’t have learned a lesson.

10
MsJ  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:04:58pm

re: #8 Joe Bacon

Bless you for posting those recipes! So beautiful to look at!!!!!!

I can’t wait to try that bread. It looked so damned good.

I apparently need a pizza stone.

11
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:05:06pm
12
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:06:16pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

You only get to ignore them when they’re a fringe movement. Not when they have power.

13
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:07:08pm

re: #8 Joe Bacon

Bless you for posting those recipes! So beautiful to look at!!!!!!

Just as addictive as meth tho

14
Citizen K  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:09:09pm

You know why she can say it?

Because the media has allowed this kind of defining down and fucking fallen down at the job by refusing to call out lies and continuing with bullshit ‘both sides, same thing’ MBF bullshit. They’re complicit in creating this era, especially when it was staring them in the face. Fuck, you had Newt Gingrich airing out this exact argument before on MSNBC I believe, and at least the reporter he was being interviewed by had the fucking sense to try and rebut him, with facts. I’m not sure you’re going to ever get that now in these coming years.

15
William Lewis  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:10:02pm

re: #5 Belafon

I went to look up Penzeys Spices.

I see they have a nice Herbes De Provence mix that actually includes lavender. I’ll have to put that on my own Amazon wishlist as that’s my go to herb mix for poultry & pork chops.

16
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:10:09pm

“The difference between a ‘moment’ and a movement is ‘sacrifice’” - Joe Madison

17
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:10:10pm
18
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:10:24pm

re: #13 The Vicious Babushka

Just as addictive as meth tho

I haven’t been able to give up eating yet.

19
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:11:08pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

We were supposed to ignore Trump too I recall.

20
MsJ  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:12:07pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

We were supposed to ignore Trump too I recall.

I wish.

21
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:12:17pm
22
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:13:44pm
23
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:13:59pm

re: #4 Interesting Times

Apropos :/

[Embedded content]

Big Pharma’s New Drug: Fukitol

24
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:16:54pm

re: #20 MsJ

I wish.

I mean the people who said he shouldn’t be taken seriously as a candidate. People who said Rubio, Jeb, and Christie were the “serious ones.”

25
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:17:48pm

Almost as scary as what she said is that there’s a Tea Party News Network and that she is its News Director. Oy.

26
Cheechako  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:18:14pm

There is a purpose behind trumps “Victory Tour’. Someone told him that he has to win one more election. This next election is going to be held at the Electoral College located in bumfuck, somewhere. trump was told that this is the ultimate winner take all election for POTUS. This is an election he MUST win. But, they didn’t tell him that this election is truly a rigged election so he’s now out on the campaign trail, lying for more votes and trying to keep the votes he already has.

27
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:29:05pm
“Well, I think it’s also an idea of an opinion. And that’s—on one hand, I hear half the media saying that these are lies. But on the other half, there are many people that go, ‘No, it’s true.’ And so one thing that has been interesting this entire campaign season to watch, is that people that say facts are facts—they’re not really facts. Everybody has a way—it’s kind of like looking at ratings, or looking at a glass of half-full water. Everybody has a way of interpreting them to be the truth, or not truth. There’s no such thing, unfortunately, anymore as facts.

I like how she sneaks this “unfortunately” in, as if she’s somehow decrying the very phenomenon she’s both perpetuating and working overtime to justify as the new legitimate normal.

“And so Mr. Trump’s tweet, amongst a certain crowd—a large part of the population—are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some—amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies and that there are no facts to back it up.”

What she’s describing is politics as a kind of religion, a belief in the nebulous existence of what one not only does not and cannot know in the total absence of any and all evidence to the contrary. The very idea of objective truth and falsifiability has been thrown out the window in favor of total Orwellian control over the population and what we think.

28
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:31:35pm

Their response to people saying Trump has no proof of fraud is there’s no proof that there was no fraud. Well okay, by that logic I can say you can’t deny that Trump dresses up like Hitler for role play. I have no proof but you have no proof he doesn’t!

29
Citizen K  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:34:57pm

re: #28 HappyWarrior

Their response to people saying Trump has no proof of fraud is there’s no proof that there was no fraud. Well okay, by that logic I can say you can’t deny that Trump dresses up like Hitler for role play. I have no proof but you have no proof he doesn’t!

It’s the bullshit conspiracy theorist’s playbook re:voting fraud, where the lack of proof of fraud just shows how insidious and untracable the fraud really is. The fact of fraud is treated as a given, so proof to the contrary is always proof of the conspiracy. It’s circular reason that not even wrong.

30
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:35:07pm
31
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:35:14pm

re: #5 Belafon

I went to look up Penzeys Spices. They are located in Dallas, at 635 and Preston for any of you DFW people. I will have to buy something from them.

And when I went to go find references to the letter mentioned in the last thread, I found a gateway pundit post claiming that the company says all Trump voters must be punished, and a similar thing from American Catholic.

I missed the Penzeys post.

My RWNJ father orders from them monthly. Sends me gifts from them.

He’ll never know (whatever the letter is) unless Fox reports on it.

OT, my kitty cost me 135.00 tonight.

32
jaunte  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:35:34pm

Once upon a time, when people thought fake news was a bad thing.

33
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:36:08pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

I missed the Penzeys post.

My RWNJ father orders from them monthly. Sends me gifts from them.

He’ll never know (whatever the letter is) unless Fox reports on it.

OT, my kitty cost me 135.00 tonight.

Is she alright?

34
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:36:54pm
35
Jenner7  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:37:00pm
36
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:37:54pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

Here’s the comment if you want it: littlegreenfootballs.com.

37
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:38:08pm

re: #29 Citizen K

It’s the bullshit conspiracy theorist’s playbook re:voting fraud, where the lack of proof of fraud just shows how insidious and untracable the fraud really is. The fact of fraud is treated as a given, so proof to the contrary is always proof of the conspiracy. It’s circular reason that not even wrong.

And the fraud always effects them even though most people arrested for voter fraud have been Republican officials. They think it’s fraud because they don’t understand why urban areas overwhelmingly favor Dems. A lot of rural areas overwhelmingly favor Republicans. That doesn’t mean fraud.

38
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:39:55pm

re: #35 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Remember when the auto industry bailout was bad.

39
Jenner7  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:40:56pm

So tired of seeing this bullshit. HE DID NOT DENOUNCE THE ALT-RIGHT.

40
Jenner7  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:42:55pm

Think about this for a moment: They want to snatch healthcare away from people, then give insurance companies a bailout. People will die. This is fucking evil.

41
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:44:59pm

re: #39 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

So tired of seeing this bullshit. HE DID NOT DENOUNCE THE ALT-RIGHT.

Words mean nothing as long as he continues to employ people like Bannon.

42
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:45:48pm

re: #40 Jenner7

Think about this for a moment: They want to snatch healthcare away from people, then give insurance companies a bailout. People will die. This is fucking evil.

They are evil. I’ve given any hope of playing nice with them.

43
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:55:05pm

re: #39 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

So tired of seeing this bullshit. HE DID NOT DENOUNCE THE ALT-RIGHT.

That’s what I was going to say—he “rejects the language of exclusion?” Oh really? When the fuck did he denounce the anything with that statement? Oh, I see—he DENOUNCED hatred (except when it’s his fans yelling “lock her up” and all the other hateful crap they say and do.)

44
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:56:43pm

re: #43 BeachDem

That’s what I was going to say—he “rejects the language of exclusion?” Oh really? When the fuck did he denounce the anything with that statement? Oh, I see—he DENOUNCED hatred (except when it’s his fans yelling “lock her up” and all the other hateful crap they say and do.)

If he really denounced hatred, he would have never had anything to do with Bannon. Everything that bigoted piece of shit does involves some kind of hatred.

45
darthstar  Dec 1, 2016 • 7:58:46pm

There’s no such thing as facts.

Kind of reminds me of this prologue…

PERSONS attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

46
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:00:18pm

re: #42 HappyWarrior

They are evil. I’ve given any hope of playing nice with them.

They’ve never played nice. Why should we entertain the thought of doing so to them?

Remember that they’ve been instilled by the likes of Rush for decades that anyone not on their side must be humiliated, destroyed and marginalized into oblivion.

47
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:00:41pm

Michael Corleone renounced evil once too. Saw how that turned out for the other four families. Trump offering a mushy mouthed “denounication of hatred” means nothing until he actually does something and honestly he’s done a lot of damage in the other direction.

48
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:01:44pm

re: #46 Myron Falwell (no relation)

They’ve never played nice. Why should we entertain the thought?

Remember that they’ve been instilled by the likes of Rush for decades that anyone not on their side must be humiliated, destroyed and marginalized into oblivion.

Oh I know. That’s why I’m through with it. They want a mean nasty liberal that’s what they’ll get.

49
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:02:04pm

And the normalization of the abnormal continues—note the chyron.


His FIRST rally since the election—as if having a victory (oh sorry, thank you) tour isn’t as creepy as the creepiest Stephen King novel.
50
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:02:40pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

51
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:03:10pm

Instagram

Repost from the homie @andreassjobeck - Dropping a knee on an urban wall ride. Go give him a follow and check out what he is up to this winter ✌| 📷: @vemdalenfoto #FreeheelLife #SpreadTelemark

52
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:05:13pm

I love this commercial, because I’m just that weird.

Raccoons, C’mon Try It! - It’s What You Do - GEICO

53
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:06:02pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

Is she alright?

Computer cords. Frank, I never bought that stuff you recommended. Fail. I just put the cords away for the night. Sneaky Chica got em while I was in the shower or something.

SHE IS FINEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Realized I’m 2 eps behind on Rectify. BBL

54
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:06:55pm

Imagine if you will, the massive RWNJ splodey heads that would have resulted if Obama had held post election rallies in 2012.

55
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:07:14pm

re: #36 Belafon

Here’s the comment if you want it: littlegreenfootballs.com.

TY

56
jaunte  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:08:21pm
57
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:08:23pm

re: #54 Eclectic Cyborg

Imagine if you will, the massive RWNJ splodey heads that would have resulted if Obama had held post election rallies in 2012.

Or in 2008. They call Obama classless, Trump couldn’t find class if it bit him in his ugly mug.

58
makeitstop  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:08:49pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

I love this commercial, because I’m just that weird.

[Embedded content]

Mango chutney and burned hair. Makes me LOL.

59
MsJ  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:09:24pm

re: #40 Jenner7

Think about this for a moment: They want to snatch healthcare away from people, then give insurance companies a bailout. People will die. This is fucking evil.

Everything about republicans is evil. Their very being - that they exist - proves there is a devil. And I’m a fucking atheist.

60
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:09:27pm

But the media are being mean to Trump and Melania’s filing lawsuits:

61
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:09:35pm

re: #56 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Good you can just listen to Nugent and shelter yourself from musicians who hurt your poor widdle right wing feelings.

62
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:10:32pm

re: #49 BeachDem

And the normalization of the abnormal continues—note the chyron.

[Embedded content]

His FIRST rally since the election—as if having a victory (oh sorry, thank you) tour isn’t as creepy as the creepiest Stephen King novel.

CNN’s L3s made me throw up when I went to Red Robin tonight. Thankfully it was on a TV set far away enough where I couldn’t remotely hear the audio because I would have thrown a knife at the TV.

Reposted from downstairs because why not.

63
jaunte  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:11:09pm

Now I know way too much about WalshFreedom bedtime.

64
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:11:24pm

re: #60 BeachDem

But the media are being mean to Trump and Melania’s filing lawsuits:

[Embedded content]

Nice diagnosis, Dr. Jones, I diagnose you as a paranoid schizophrenic who sees false flags everywhere. Get bent Alex.

65
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:11:45pm

re: #56 jaunte

I’m pretty sure Axl Rose pays HIS child support payments.

66
Jenner7  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:13:42pm

Night night.

We’ll get through this…one day at time. I hope. :)

67
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:14:07pm

re: #56 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Axl struck me as a normal messed up rocker (and GNR music is better because of it), but the fact that he doesn’t like Trump is very interesting.

68
makeitstop  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:16:16pm

Whoa.

69
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:16:30pm

re: #67 Belafon

Axl struck me as a normal messed up rocker (and GNR music is better because of it), but the fact that he doesn’t like Trump is very interesting.

There’s always pleasant surprises. Not a huge GNR fan but it does amuse me that Walsh is butthurt over this.

70
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:18:43pm

The Trump boys are admirers of this totally well-adjusted human being.

The Alex Jones Supercut

71
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:20:07pm

re: #58 makeitstop

Mango chutney and burned hair. Makes me LOL.

“I can’t get the taste out of my mouth!”

“dog, dog, dog, dog, dog…”

72
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:20:27pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Good you can just listen to Nugent and shelter yourself from musicians who hurt your poor widdle right wing feelings.

Did Nugent only record two songs? Because the only ones I’ve ever heard are “Stranglehold” and “Cat Scratch Fever.”

73
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:21:42pm

re: #68 makeitstop

Whoa.

[Embedded content]

My personal opinion is that all jobs should earn money based on how important they are compared to how many people are willing to do them. That’s why I personally believe a garbage collector here in the Dallas area should be making 70K or more a year. That’s a job I’m more than willing to pay someone else to do.

74
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:21:53pm

re: #70 teleskiguy

The Trump boys are admirers of this totally well-adjusted human being.

[Embedded content]

Yep. I’m waiting for Alex to turn on Trump when he realizes being a suck up to the WH isn’t good for his image or if he does stay being a more deranged Sean Hannity who applauds every last thing the administration does.

75
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:23:34pm

re: #72 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Did Nugent only record two songs? Because the only ones I’ve ever heard are “Stranglehold” and “Cat Scratch Fever.”

He was in a band called Amboy Dukes I believe. He also I know had a song called Jailbait which I’m told was quite autobiographical but hey Jay-Z said the n word!

76
Kragar  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:24:18pm

re: #72 Myron Falwell (no relation)

He had quite a few more, all of about the same “quality”

77
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:25:27pm

re: #76 Kragar

He had quite a few more, all of about the same “quality”

We always did have the better musicians. We got some great athletes too. Hank Aaron and Lebron James come to mind.

78
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:26:37pm

re: #76 Kragar

He had quite a few more, all of about the same “quality”

Same three chords, over and over and over.

79
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:28:11pm

re: #70 teleskiguy

The Trump boys are admirers of this totally well-adjusted human being.

Forget that supercut… this 35 second clip alone is jaw-droppingly scary.

80
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:28:26pm

It always did amuse me when conservatives acted prudish about language when they have people like Nugent who can’t go one sentence without calling people subhuman.

81
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:29:44pm

Good night all. Thanks for the kind words downstairs. Tomorrow is another day with its own unique promise.

82
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:33:58pm

re: #65 Myron Falwell (no relation)

I’m pretty sure Axl Rose pays HIS child support payments.

Heh.

83
Ziggy_TARDIS  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:35:42pm

Private, because it is time I spill the beans:

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

84
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:40:13pm

David Gergen is officially fed up with Donald Trump’s continuous BS:

From tonight’s Anderson Cooper 360:
CNN contributor gets real about Trump’s ‘unity’ doublespeak: I never liked ‘the son of a b*tch’

Gergen’s segment starts around the 2:55 mark of the video, and he drops the money quote at just after 4:30.

Gergen gets real about Trump’s ‘unity’ doublespeak: ‘I never liked the son of a bitch’

85
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:43:22pm

re: #79 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Forget that supercut… this 35 second clip alone is jaw-droppingly scary.

They’re all bad.

86
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:44:59pm
87
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:45:54pm

re: #83 Ziggy_TARDIS

M+9mC0Ux1xXFEztDuoD4aXRXW/iNlkstl0JOemlkdIlzB1efFvmkHKSHLFXDdCj8LJZlt8joBwfmnePx7dzwbfKCPP8r4TA7iplMpGQbDxmsoHbGEfuyCSmnZ8zmJst3By5KR135+sjCvNzp3DddJYX8OOhxYcXmqWmjCybuGer/EkHIwIs6OlE05MNzmhCc7MkLtaaMjP6oiXMJrVy/kiBQ2kp8W3nbzjL4RU4YZfuWcziJBqZtB1uD3POQ2yHq

88
Citizen K  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:46:31pm

For anyone who thought they might be done going after Clinton (all 3 of you left in the country):

House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) says Hillary Clinton’s actions as secretary of State have raised too many red flags for Congress to stop investigating her just because she lost the presidential election.

“We can’t just simply let this go,” Chaffetz told host Martha MacCallum on Fox News’s “America’s Newsroom” Wednesday.

Mind, Rep. Chaffetz basically signaled no pressing need to look into anything re:Trump’s massive amounts of red flags. Quelle surprise.

89
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:47:08pm
90
Ziggy_TARDIS  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:47:18pm

re: #85 teleskiguy

KtP8t+ZRKw5EUR6xAqiKr8zV85CzmY1dVQnKVGTRANk5tvPbxZx3uSRVG0k5n7PfKS9P0unLGJe8WSpCgQxJG4jbraFGGpKV

91
Charles Johnson  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:48:04pm
92
Belafon  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:50:55pm

re: #88 Citizen K

For anyone who thought they might be done going after Clinton (all 3 of you left in the country):

[Embedded content]

re: #88 Citizen K

93
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:52:08pm

re: #88 Citizen K

Ugh, Chaffetz is such an asshole. How’d he get elected anyway?

94
baileylamb  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:53:43pm

I’ll play this game. If there are no such things as facts them how can Trump’s white supremacist buddies assert that they are superior to non Europeans?
They can’t base it on any “Bell curve” or any other type nonsense science or statistics.

They have to admit, it’s just feeling and them wanting to assert power over something.

They have to admit if there is nothing inferior, then there is nothing superior.

95
Citizen K  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:54:07pm

re: #93 Eclectic Cyborg

Ugh, Chaffetz is such an asshole. How’d he get elected anyway?

The country deifies assholes. That’s pretty much it.

96
ObserverArt  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:56:22pm

re: #72 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Did Nugent only record two songs? Because the only ones I’ve ever heard are “Stranglehold” and “Cat Scratch Fever.”

Nugent has been recording albums since the first Amboy Dukes records of the late 60s. I think there were two or three Amboy Dukes as the original band. After the original band broke up he kept using that name into the 70s.

I used to see him both in Columbus and a few times around northern Ohio. Most of the times that version of the Dukes was a three-piece power trio with revolving bass players and drummers. I think those bands put out two albums.

His shows in that period was just guitar excess and Nuge being a guitar rock god on a middle America small hall budget. Loud, brash and hinting of clown jester.

Then he hit his big period in the later 70s going “solo” even though he was really always solo. No one can contain the awesomeness of the Nuge! He had three “big” albums in a row and that was his peak. That band was probably his best band and that all fell apart by 1979 or so.

Then he got more and more into being The Nature Boy Hunter Nuge…which eventually became The Political Wingnut Nuge we see today. He still piddled in bands and put out bad music…but I have no idea of his output past about 1980.

He has been…uh, prolific. It’s up to individuals to determine what that means. I’ve posted before, had I known he’d be this much a blockhead, I would never had caught his act. Now, I’d love to get my money back from the idiot.

97
Frankie Five Angels  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:56:27pm

News Director, Tea Party News Network.

98
baileylamb  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:56:32pm

More to my point, they aren’t better, or smarter than anyone. They are just a-holes who are willing to blow-up civil society; nay civilization itself, because someone hurt their feelings.

99
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:59:47pm

re: #95 Citizen K

The country deifies assholes. That’s pretty much it.

For the right wing, being an asshole is a résumé enhancement.

100
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 1, 2016 • 8:59:54pm

apparent road rage incident:

101
Citizen K  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:02:32pm

re: #99 Myron Falwell (no relation)

For the right wing, being an asshole is a résumé enhancement.

Enhancement? More like requirement.

102
retired cynic  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:10:25pm

re: #79 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Forget that supercut… this 35 second clip alone is jaw-droppingly scary.

[Embedded content]

Nope. You can’t make me.

103
Scout  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:16:52pm

Remember how easy it was for the neocons to gin up a war with Iraq?

Anyone have any doubt how easy it will be for James “Mad Dog” Mattis to gin up an invasion of Iran?

I’d bet 100 internet dollars it’ll happen before 2017 turns into 2018.

104
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:20:08pm

re: #100 Backwoods_Sleuth

apparent road rage incident:

[Embedded content]

I had an hunch before I poked around that it was going to be a white shooter (who, from all accounts, was the aggressor) killing a unarmed black man; unfortunately, I was proven right.

nola.com

nola.com

Get a load of this:

A witness, who declined to give her name, said she was leaving a store in the area when she saw a man at the intersection yelling at another man, who was trying to apologize. The man who was yelling shot the other man more than once, she said.

She said the shooter shot the man, stood over him and said “I told you don’t you f—- with me.” Then he fired again, she said.

This was a straight-up execution, a goddamn lynching in the middle of fucking traffic, but watch the fucker try some sort of “stand your ground” defense in court.

“I was afraid for my life” will be submitted into testimony more than once, I’m sure.

*spit*

105
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:24:15pm

Watching Rectify on Sundance - I missed 2 eps. This is the last season.

I cannot recommend enough.

I’ve been preaching this & will continue.

106
darthstar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:24:31pm

re: #51 teleskiguy

That’s so bad for your edges.

107
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:25:08pm

re: #103 Scout

Remember how easy it was for the neocons to gin up a war with Iraq?

Anyone have any doubt how easy it will be for James “Mad Dog” Mattis to gin up an invasion of Iran?

I’d bet 100 internet dollars it’ll happen before 2017 turns into 2018.

I want to know how they’re getting around that seven year rule—Mattis only retired in 2013.

108
Alyosha  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:27:51pm

OT emo bullshit…

So a few days ago I shared a picture I drew. It was a present to my ex as a token of my appreciation for having met her. We broke up, not because we didn’t love each other, but because we were too different.
Anyways, she’s since snagged a beau and when I told her that her gift was ready, she told me that her bf didn’t want her to accept it.
Next day, she signalled that she did want it and that her mum was excited to see me.
Today, she changed her mind.
I’ve grown in many ways emotionally over the last few years. Once, I might have needled her to feel guilty… but over the last few years I’ve learnt what a truly terrible thing toxic masculinity can be. Even in the smallest of ways.
So, I manned-up and told her not to stress. That in the end I wanted to do right by her. That what I truly want is her happiness. It didn’t make me feel better, but that’s not the point. To do any less would be to negate those feelings of love I still have for her.
And I know that’s more important than my wounded pride.

Still, going to knock back a few tonight because also, SOME WANKER STOLE MY LICENSE PLATES!
Been a great day.

109
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:29:10pm

re: #106 darthstar

Fuckers doing stuff like that have some skis in the garage with edges. Hell, I got skis I’ll ski on dirt and skis I won’t use until there’s a 60” base.

110
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:35:16pm

re: #109 teleskiguy

I still have my Salomon Snow Blades I got for X-Mas when I was 14 years old. I’ve walked on sidewalks in Steamboat with those, and skied Pallavicini at A-Basin (I made a zillion turns on that run, it was more annoying than anything).

111
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:35:48pm

re: #108 Alyosha

OT emo bullshit…

[Embedded content]

Need to get those oddball fasteners that require a special tool to remove.

112
darthstar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:37:53pm

re: #109 teleskiguy

Fuckers doing stuff like that have some skis in the garage with edges. Hell, I got skis I’ll ski on dirt and skis I won’t use until there’s a 60” base.

There’s a 39” base at Alpine Meadows. About 1/3 the mountain is open already. I won’t be up for another two weeks as I’m still recovering from my hernia surgery.

113
darthstar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:40:31pm

re: #110 teleskiguy

I still have my Salomon Snow Blades I got for X-Mas when I was 14 years old. I’ve walked on sidewalks in Steamboat with those, and skied Pallavicini at A-Basin (I made a zillion turns on that run, it was more annoying than anything).

Heh…snow blades. Guys on those are so annoying on the mountain.

114
darthstar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:41:51pm

re: #113 darthstar

Heh…snow blades. Guys on those are so annoying on the mountain.

But you were 14…you’re forgiven.

115
Alyosha  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:43:31pm

re: #111 wheat-dogg

Need to get those oddball fasteners that require a special tool to remove.

I was thinking more of rabid weasels in the boot and under the hood, released with a blare of angry trumpets at the very notion that malfeasance as about to occur.

My mechanic has referred me to the zoo and the zoo tells me that their weasels are incredibly healthy and, at any rate, not for rent.

116
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:43:41pm

re: #109 teleskiguy

Fuckers doing stuff like that have some skis in the garage with edges. Hell, I got skis I’ll ski on dirt and skis I won’t use until there’s a 60” base.

I still remember my first experience xc skiing on what must have been a 60” base. I had never seen so much snow before. The woods were eerily quiet and the snow was soft as a pillow, which was a good thing, as I fell down more than a few times.

I miss it.

117
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:45:27pm

re: #115 Alyosha

I was thinking more of rabid weasels in the boot and under the hood, released with a blare of angry trumpets at the very notion that malfeasance as about to occur.

My mechanic has referred me to the zoo and the zoo tells me that their weasels are incredibly healthy and, at any rate, not for rent.

Pity. Maybe just a sticker on the car saying, “Protected by very hungry feral weasels. It’s your life, sucker.”

118
EPR-radar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:48:06pm

re: #27 goddamnedfrank


What she’s describing is politics as a kind of religion, a belief in the nebulous existence of what one not only does not and cannot know in the total absence of any and all evidence to the contrary. The very idea of objective truth and falsifiability has been thrown out the window in favor of total Orwellian control over the population and what we think.

Time to start the betting pool on when 2+ 2 = 5 gets into the Republican party platform. My guess is the 2020 election cycle.

119
Alyosha  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:54:23pm

re: #117 wheat-dogg

Pity. Maybe just a sticker on the car saying, “Protected by very hungry feral weasels. It’s your life, sucker.”

The pit viper that guards my CD player won’t take kindly to the idea a sticker might as easily replace her.

You see my conundrum :)

120
Jayleia  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:55:16pm

re: #118 EPR-radar

Time to start the betting pool on when 2+ 2 = 5 gets into the Republican party platform. My guess is the 2020 election cycle.

Officially? Probably a bit later than that.

Unofficially? About the 1980 platform.

121
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:56:44pm

re: #114 darthstar

But you were 14…you’re forgiven.

I haven’t used those fuckers in many years. I was living in Steamboat the last time.

122
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:57:18pm

re: #120 Jayleia

Officially? Probably a bit later than that.

Unofficially? About the 1980 platform.

Don’t you mean the 1984 platform?

/

123
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:57:29pm

re: #116 wheat-dogg

I still remember my first experience xc skiing on what must have been a 60” base. I had never seen so much snow before. The woods were eerily quiet and the snow was soft as a pillow, which was a good thing, as I fell down more than a few times.

I miss it.

I love those quiet moments. Makes being alive worth it.

124
EPR-radar  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:57:37pm

re: #120 Jayleia

Officially? Probably a bit later than that.

Unofficially? About the 1980 platform.

Officially. Orwell:

In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable - what then?

125
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:58:05pm

re: #121 teleskiguy

I haven’t used those fuckers in many years. I was living in Steamboat the last time.

So if snow blades suck so bad why do people even use them?

126
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:58:40pm

David Roberts wrote the best election post-mortem, IMHO.

127
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 9:59:40pm

re: #125 Eclectic Cyborg

So if snow blades suck so bad why do people even use them?

They’re *easy to turn* and require minimal effort to make them turn.

128
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:01:07pm

re: #127 teleskiguy

They’re *easy to turn* and require minimal effort to make them turn.

So skiing for dummies in other words?

129
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:01:49pm

re: #127 teleskiguy

Put me on a pair of 136 beginner skis and I could be pissed drunk or on heavy drugs and I could stand up and make those skis get me downhill upright. That’s just me. Short short skis are easy to maneuver, which is why beginner skiers ski on really short skis.

130
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:02:44pm

re: #128 Eclectic Cyborg

So skiing for dummies in other words?

You could say that, yes.

131
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:05:23pm

I’m only just now catching up to the threads from last night (my last night, time zone-wise). Seems I missed a major blow-up between our man in Nebraska and a few others hereabouts. I gather he’s under a lot of pressure on his home turf, and not getting much support from the Democrat Party of NE, and felt he wasn’t getting much here, either. Major flounce then. It’s too bad, because I really liked his running commentary about being an elected minority party official in a small town. Anymouse provided a perspective few of us could offer from first-hand experience. Heck, I never even ran for student government.

Moving to Poland, though. WTF? That came out of nowhere.

I have to say, though, that his complaining about coastal elitism against middle America rubbed me the wrong way, being a “coastal elite” who spent more than 35 years living in middle America (Wyoming, Kentucky and Indiana. I don’t see it quite the way AM does. Rather, there is a significant disconnection between rural and urban people which has always existed in some form for as long as cities have existed. It underpinned much of the strife between the North and South in the mid-19th century. Courtesy of the Right Wing Media Machine, the rural-urban divide has grown even wider, as the RWMM has convinced middle America the “liberals” on the coasts don’t care about them, and as middle Americans continue to do everything in their power to reinforce the stereotypes people have about them. It’s a never-ending feedback loop: the War on Christmas, the color of Starbucks coffee cups, wedding cakes, bathroom laws, Obama’s birthplace — you name it.

Have the Democrats ignored middle America? I’d say yes, but only to the extent that some parts of middle America are so intractably Republican that limited resources and manpower dictate the Dems concentrate on regions that they have a hope of winning in. Showing middle America that Democrats are not all gun-hating, peacenik woossies from Ladeedah University would be a good first step, and showing what Dems have done to make their lives better — starting with the New Deal and the TVA — would be a good second step.

Showing Middle America what their life would be like without those Democratic reforms will be easy. Should happen within the next four years, if it does.

132
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:06:18pm

re: #123 teleskiguy

I love those quiet moments. Makes being alive worth it.

Heaven on earth, however cold it might be.

133
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:07:46pm

And now I must excuse myself to perform my daily teaching duties. See you all in your morning.

134
retired cynic  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:08:38pm

re: #131 wheat-dogg

“… Courtesy of the Right Wing Media Machine, the rural-urban divide has grown even wider, as the RWMM has convinced middle America the “liberals” on the coasts don’t care about them, and as middle Americans continue to do everything in their power to reinforce the stereotypes people have about them. It’s a never-ending feedback loop: the War on Christmas, the color of Starbucks coffee cups, wedding cakes, bathroom laws, Obama’s birthplace — you name it. …”

Amen!

135
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:10:54pm

re: #118 EPR-radar

Time to start the betting pool on when 2+ 2 = 5 gets into the Republican party platform. My guess is the 2020 election cycle.

It’s like going through the looking glass and ending up in 1984.

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

SLOW DISSOLVE TO:

“It’s a beautiful thing, the Destruction of words. Of course the great wastage is in the verbs and adjectives, but there are hundreds of nouns that can be got rid of as well…

“You are a slow learner, Winston.”
“How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.”
“Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.”

136
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:18:28pm

re: #135 BeachDem

It’s like going through the looking glass and ending up in 1984.

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

SLOW DISSOLVE TO:

“It’s a beautiful thing, the Destruction of words. Of course the great wastage is in the verbs and adjectives, but there are hundreds of nouns that can be got rid of as well…

“You are a slow learner, Winston.”
“How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.”
“Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.”

There Are Four Lights

137
nickzi  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:23:33pm

re: #117 wheat-dogg

Pity. Maybe just a sticker on the car saying, “Protected by very hungry feral weasels. It’s your life, sucker.”

When I said my car was a Viper, I meant it. A Gaboon Viper. Have a nice short day, perp!

138
The Madness of King Orange (aka Sophist)  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:40:23pm

re: #39 Jenner7

139
William Lewis  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:45:11pm

re: #131 wheat-dogg

Poland is where his grandparents fled, illegally, to the US from just before the NAZI invasion. With King’s demands to deport even Grandchildren of illegal immigrants it seems an understandable bit of knee jerk to me.

140
Single-handed sailor  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:47:05pm

re: #115 Alyosha

I was thinking more of rabid weasels in the boot and under the hood, released with a blare of angry trumpets at the very notion that malfeasance as about to occur.

My mechanic has referred me to the zoo and the zoo tells me that their weasels are incredibly healthy and, at any rate, not for rent.

Trunk Monkey Theft Retrieval System

Bridge Trunk Monkey Commercial

141
Amory Blaine  Dec 1, 2016 • 10:57:57pm

Here’s the reality with regard to the democrats IMO.They can’t even hold their traditional bases anymore much less make inroads into hostile territory. Look at Wisconsin and all the bullshit purple state talk. This fucking state is beet red with strong conservative majorities in ALL branches. Tammy Baldwin (who?) senator will not survive her reelection if you look at the trend of this state and her general ineffective performance coupled with a strong conservative media drumbeat. The attack on organized labor since ~2010 IMO has been devastating. When BHO ran both times, I was constantly poked by the DNC. This election? No phone calls or knock on my door. Not one. Nebraska? Good luck, if Wisconsin is a lost cause at this point I don’t know what to say about their strategy going forward.

142
Amory Blaine  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:07:08pm

Even well known, and liked Russ Feingold, a democrat that never has spoken ill of the 2nd amendment and was a bit of a maverick couldn’t beat a total fucktard like Ron Johnson.

143
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:17:08pm
144
Alyosha  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:48:45pm
145
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:51:25pm

re: #144 Alyosha

All I can think is OH GOD THEIR KNEES.

146
Cheechako  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:52:35pm

re: #144 Alyosha

Made my titanium knees hurt!!

147
Alyosha  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:52:52pm

re: #145 klys (maker of Silmarils)

All I can think is OH GOD THEIR KNEES.

Inorite!!!

148
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:53:22pm
149
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 1, 2016 • 11:57:23pm

I have been using the term Alternate Media Reality for a while here, and lo, it has been officially confirmed.

We are living in it.

150
Amory Blaine  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:12:15am

Medical examiner ‘threatened’ by Clarke over jail deaths

Brian Peterson, Milwaukee County chief medical examiner, said Thursday that the sheriff called him on Oct. 28 and “verbally pummeled” and “threatened” him over information that Peterson’s office made public regarding the deaths of two inmates at the jail earlier this year. Peterson said his office followed appropriate protocol in the cases cited by the sheriff.

Even so, Clarke said he would be contacting the state Medical Examining Board to have Peterson sanctioned or his license revoked.

“I haven’t been talked to like that since I was probably 5,” Peterson said in an interview.

151
Pawn of the Oppressor  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:34:47am

re: #5 Belafon

I went to look up Penzeys Spices. They are located in Dallas, at 635 and Preston for any of you DFW people. I will have to buy something from them.

And when I went to go find references to the letter mentioned in the last thread, I found a gateway pundit post claiming that the company says all Trump voters must be punished, and a similar thing from American Catholic.

They also have a store in the Parks Mall in Arlington, at 20 and Cooper (?) I believe. I went there a couple of times, they were a closer alternative to Pendry’s in Ft. Worth. (Pendry’s has a mind-boggling selection of chili peppers but were a bit harder to get to from mid-cities.)

I’m pleased to have shopped there already, and now have double reasons to do so, even though I’m not in Texas anymore.

152
Alyosha  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:48:25am

Someone call BWS!

153
IntegralDoc  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:15:31am

154
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 1:54:30am

Love me some Ana Navarro:

Facebook Post

155
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:01:02am

Unfortunately the technology for individual space exploration is way the fuck out there. I’ll stay on Earth, I guess. I mean, Hey! Rush Limbaugh said on his show he’d move to Costa Rica if Obama was elected and that didn’t happen. So now I don’t feel so bad.

156
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:33:43am

re: #155 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Unfortunately the technology for individual space exploration is way the fuck out there. I’ll stay on Earth, I guess. I mean, Hey! Rush Limbaugh said on his show he’d move to Costa Rica if Obama was elected and that didn’t happen. So now I don’t feel so bad.

And Ted Nugent is neither dead nor in jail…not that that makes me feel any better…

157
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:42:37am

re: #155 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Unfortunately the technology for individual space exploration is way the fuck out there. I’ll stay on Earth, I guess. I mean, Hey! Rush Limbaugh said on his show he’d move to Costa Rica if Obama was elected and that didn’t happen. So now I don’t feel so bad.

Given Trump’s attitude toward science in general, space exploration may be low on his list of priorities, unless someone tells him how cool it would be to have a Trump hotel in orbit or on the Moon.

In the Larry Niven Known Space universe, “singleships” were a thing, which his hero Louis Wu used on occasion to get away from people for a while (as he was 200 years old and rather tired of the whole thing I guess) — and accidentally discover stuff.

A singleship with FTL drive would be way cool. Also dangerous for the sole occupant, probably.

158
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:43:56am

re: #157 wheat-dogg

Given Trump’s attitude toward science in general, space exploration may be low on his list of priorities, unless someone tells him how cool it would be to have a Trump hotel in orbit or on the Moon.

Hey, he promised to keep jobs in America!!!

159
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:48:32am

re: #158 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Hey, he promised to keep jobs in America!!!

Or Mexico. Whatevs.

I peeked at Facebook today and encountered one of my friends posting a defense of Trump, praising him for the Carrier deal and asking everyone to “give him a chance.” She also said Trump was an outsider who would really shake up Washington.

I pointed out the fact that Carrier will still move jobs to Mexico, and never really intended to pull completely out of Indiana. As for shaking up Washington, I noted that most of his Cabinet picks have been longtime Washington insiders or Wall Street tycoons. Not much a change there. And I advised her never to trust a word Trump says, because he lies like a rug.

160
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:50:26am

re: #157 wheat-dogg

In the Traveller RPG, 100 ton displacement scout ships are able to be flown by a single skilled character. Makes a good reward for a GM to use.

161
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:58:56am

re: #160 William Lewis

In the Traveller RPG, 100 ton displacement scout ships are able to be flown by a single skilled character. Makes a good reward for a GM to use.

Spacecraft will be the ultimate fly-by-wire vessels, because computers will make tricky maneuvers — docking, orbital transfers, etc. — nearly automatic. We just need to be careful about giving the computers *too* much autonomy.

HAL 9000: “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”

162
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:01:47am

re: #159 wheat-dogg

Or Mexico. Whatevs.

I peeked at Facebook today and encountered one of my friends posting a defense of Trump, praising him for the Carrier deal and asking everyone to “give him a chance.” She also said Trump was an outsider who would really shake up Washington.

We are in the age of Alternate Media Reality.

No point in arguing with that meta-world, as it is no longer fact-based.

Trump promised to “keep jobs in America”. To his supporters and most of the media, he has fulfilled his promise, ergo, he will continue to fulfill all his promises.

163
Dave In Austin  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:12:15am
164
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:13:16am

Pay no attention to that man behind the Iron Curtain!

165
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:19:18am

re: #163 Dave In Austin

Classic! And so true.

166
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:26:35am

re: #161 wheat-dogg

Spacecraft will be the ultimate fly-by-wire vessels, because computers will make tricky maneuvers — docking, orbital transfers, etc. — nearly automatic. We just need to be careful about giving the computers *too* much autonomy.

[Embedded content]

Heh.

In the game, AI is rare and beyond even the high tech worlds usually, computers are what they thought they would be like in 1975 and for some mysterious reason jump drives (the FTL handwave ) needs a sentient being at the controls. :)

Good for classic space opera.

167
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:36:31am

re: #166 William Lewis

Heh.

In the game, AI is rare and beyond even the high tech worlds usually, computers are what they thought they would be like in 1975 and for some mysterious reason jump drives (the FTL handwave ) needs a sentient being at the controls. :)

Good for classic space opera.

“Helmsman, plot a course for the Tau Ceti system.”
“Aye, Captain. {H. fiddles with controls} Done, sir.”
“Make it so.”
“Aye, sir. {Insert SFX} Approaching Tau Ceti now.”

It should be so easy.

168
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:42:33am
169
Sherlock Hound  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:50:47am

re: #167 wheat-dogg

“Helmsman, plot a course for the Tau Ceti system.”
“Aye, Captain. {H. fiddles with controls} Done, sir.”
“Make it so.”
“Aye, sir. {Insert SFX} Approaching Tau Ceti now.”

It should be so easy.

Norman Spinrad’s The Void Captain’s Tale had an interesting take: FTL piloting, like piloting in real life, was very involved with a long, complex checklist.

The captain of the story gets involved with a woman who has some really philosophical discussions with him.

Nihilistic ones, too.

She’s on the bridge with him during a jump. He decides to omit a step from the checklist that involves loading some coordinates. They make the jump.

To nowhere.

Oops.

170
Dave In Austin  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:52:05am

Anyone know anything about this gentleman?

171
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:58:09am

re: #168 Timothy Watson

Trump’s Breezy Calls to World Leaders Leave Diplomats Aghast

“I’m confident that as President-elect Trump takes office, those same State Department employees will stand ready to offer him advice as he conducts the business of the United States overseas.”

“Hopefully he’ll take it,” he added.

All ye who enter this administration, abandon hope.

172
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:11:47am

re: #171 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

“I’m confident that as President-elect Trump takes office, those same State Department employees will stand ready to offer him advice as he conducts the business of the United States overseas.”

“Hopefully he’ll take it,” he added.

All ye who enter this administration, abandon hope.

Trump will not take advice, unless State puts it in a tweet or mentions it on the TeeVee.

Chatting up world leaders like they are golf buddies sets a bad, and dangerous, precedent. Trump’s flattery of Pakistan is going to annoy India for sure. Trump even has business ventures in India. Not sure about Pakistan, but I bet he’s angling for some preferential treatment there.

He’s so fcking transparent.

173
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:17:55am

re: #172 wheat-dogg

Trump will not take advice, unless State puts it in a tweet or mentions it on the TeeVee.

Chatting up world leaders like they are golf buddies sets a bad, and dangerous, precedent. Trump’s flattery of Pakistan is going to annoy India for sure. Trump even has business ventures in India. Not sure about Pakistan, but I bet he’s angling for some preferential treatment there.

He’s so fcking transparent.

and so easily manipulated…that is the scary part

174
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:18:12am

re: #139 William Lewis

Poland is where his grandparents fled, illegally, to the US from just before the NAZI invasion. With King’s demands to deport even Grandchildren of illegal immigrants it seems an understandable bit of knee jerk to me.

I put him on GAZE after he attempted to whitesplain to me that the capital of Israel is in Tel Aviv, in spite of the seat of government, the Knesset and the PM all being in Jerusalem. He did this by repeatedly linking to some wikipedia article about some bullshit non-binding UN resolution. This same bullshit non-binding UN res also said all Jews must evacuate from ALL PARTS of Jerusalem. I was like WTF.

175
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:19:24am

re: #170 Dave In Austin

Anyone know anything about this gentleman?

[Embedded content]

He’s legit. Definitely a freshman to keep an eye on. Check out his legislative history in MD.
en.wikipedia.org
Introduced the bills that legalized same sex marriage and abolished the DP in his state which then Governor O’Malley signed. It’s a safe district so it’s his as long as he wants it honestly. He is a little old for a freshman Rep, however, Ben Cardin, MD’s Senior Senator is getting up there in age so perhaps if Raskin has a couple successful terms in the House, he could make a good Senate candidate down the road, the man he’s replacing in his district is Maryland’s Senator elect Chris Van Hollen who also is great.

176
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:25:00am

re: #131 wheat-dogg

Have the Democrats ignored middle America? I’d say yes, but only to the extent that some parts of middle America are so intractably Republican that limited resources and manpower dictate the Dems concentrate on regions that they have a hope of winning in.

Problem is, the economic recovery has all but ignored rural/small-town America. In big cities, there are service jobs and new industries springing up. Out there, an entire community might be dependent on one industry or one factory. When that goes downhill, the entire region suffers.

And the days when you did not have to be well educated or trained are gone. It used to suffice to learn one particular job, work hard and do it well for long enough, and one could succeed and have a degree of affluence and security.

Heck, even up until the real-estate crash, almost anybody could do well working in construction while the wife worked downtown for a mortgage broker…it was enough to keep up on the mortgage payments and even put some aside for the kids’ education…

But that all went away and shows no signs of returning.

177
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:25:17am

re: #173 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

and so easily manipulated…that is the scary part

Indeed. Once world leaders figure this character flaw out, he will be putty in their hands. His willful ignorance of diplomacy and geopolitics will not make America great, but push us off the world stage. China is only one of several nation-states that would love to be top dog in the world.

178
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:27:51am

re: #174 The Vicious Babushka

I put him on GAZE after he attempted to whitesplain to me that the capital of Israel is in Tel Aviv, in spite of the seat of government, the Knesset and the PM all being in Jerusalem. He did this by repeatedly linking to some wikipedia article about some bullshit non-binding UN resolution. This same bullshit non-binding UN res also said all Jews must evacuate from ALL PARTS of Jerusalem. I was like WTF.

I’ve been civil with him but I got really annoyed when he got really upset about some words I used about Atheism. I forget what I said exactly at the moment but it wasn’t controversial at all and it definitely wasn’t an attack on non-believers(I self id as Agnostic FWIW). And then he pulled the “You don’t sleep with a shotgun under neath your bed” bit on me, I like AM, as Wheat said, he really did contribute an unique perspective both as an elected official and someone in a bleeding red area but it really bothered me how he acted like people were dismissing his part of the country when many of us in fact praised what he specifically was doing out there but we felt at least I felt the best way for the party to build its presence out there was from the ground up. He definitely had a right to be frustrated at the DNC and NE state Dems but at the same time, I felt there was a disconnect. He seemed annoyed that we dismissed his neighbors but he’s also talked about moving to Poland because he doesn’t feel safe. I’ll miss him. I really mean that but I thought he could be a bit headstrong and I know the comment about LGF being an echochamber really bothered Charles and BWS.

179
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:28:18am

re: #177 wheat-dogg

Indeed. Once world leaders figure this character flaw out, he will be putty in their hands. His willful ignorance of diplomacy and geopolitics will not make America great, but push us off the world stage. China is only one of several nation-states that would love to be top dog in the world.

You are assuming that they haven’t figured that flaw of his out YEARS ago.

180
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:31:46am

Now that Hillary is out of the picture, Kremlin stooge Assange turns his scope on Angela Merkel

181
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:33:32am

re: #176 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Problem is, the economic recovery has all but ignored rural/small-town America. In big cities, there are service jobs and new industries springing up. Out there, an entire community might be dependent on one industry or one factory. When that goes downhill, the entire region suffers.

And the days when you did not have to be well educated or trained are gone. It used to suffice to learn one particular job, work hard and do it well for long enough, and one could succeed and have a degree of affluence and security.

Heck, even up until the real-estate crash, almost anybody could do well working in construction while the wife worked downtown for a mortgage broker…it was enough to keep up on the mortgage payments and even put some aside for the kids’ education…

But that all went away and shows no signs of returning.

This is very true. To some extent, people in hard-hit areas could find work if they could pull up stakes and move where there are jobs, but saying is way easier than doing. Besides, some of those jobs have moved off shore, and few people want to move that far from home, even if they could.

We’ve got two major trends working at cross-purposes: the migration from an industrial to a service economy requiring particular kinds of education, and the erosion of decent public education which would prepare younger people for service economy jobs. Trump’s pick for Education Secretary is unlikely to foster public education of any kind, and Trump’s wheeling-dealing is unlikely to bring back blue collar jobs to the hinterlands.

Basically, those folks are screwed no matter who’s in charge.

182
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:33:33am

And FWIW I think most everyone agreed with AM that the Democratic Party should run candidates everywhere in the country. I just feel he didn’t understand that if places like Nebraska are going to change from being Republican bastions (the state has only gone Democratic twice since 1936) that it’s not going to be because of the National Democratic Party, it will be because of people like him, locals who happen to be Democrats and show their neighbors that Democrats are more than just the boogeyman that they’ve been voting against for years. As I said, his contributions will be sorely missed but I really think he missed a lot of what people were saying, maybe it was sheer frustration, maybe it was that he kept odd hours, I don’t know. I bear no ill will to AM and I really hope he can survive that recall but honestly I think the fact they’re calling him over his private vote and not his abilities as their village trustee says a lot about them. I granted don’t know a lot about what his position entailed exactly but he seem to me to be a village trustee who happened to be a Democrat rather than the other way around. And I think maybe in a way that gave him expectations that were maybe unrealistic since Democratic officials who have to do partisan matters have it tougher out there than those who are technically party officials but aren’t really doing the party’s business.

183
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:34:42am

re: #178 HappyWarrior

I really felt like I had more than a bit in common with Anymouse in terms of ancestry and personal history, but he revealed a side of him that I did not expect. But then again, I fled the Midwest in the 70’s and Arizona & the US in the 80’s and have been observing events from across the pond since then.

184
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:37:13am

re: #180 The Vicious Babushka

Now that Hillary is out of the picture, Kremlin stooge Assange turns his scope on Angela Merkel

I am expecting Austria to go full right-wing in Sunday’s elections, that will bode ill for Angela next door.

185
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:37:36am

re: #181 wheat-dogg

This is very true. To some extent, people in hard-hit areas could find work if they could pull up stakes and move where there are jobs, but saying is way easier than doing. Besides, some of those jobs have moved off shore, and few people want to move that far from home, even if they could.

We’ve got two major trends working at cross-purposes: the migration from an industrial to a service economy requiring particular kinds of education, and the erosion of decent public education which would prepare younger people for service economy jobs. Trump’s pick for Education Secretary is unlikely to foster public education of any kind, and Trump’s wheeling-dealing is unlikely to bring back blue collar jobs to the hinterlands.

Basically, those folks are screwed no matter who’s in charge.

The thing is the decline in these areas began long before Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. As I said yesterday, I can remember vividly visiting my grandparents hometown in Pennsylvania in the mid 90’s and it being different than what it had been when they were kids and even when they would take my mom and uncle to visit. The people tehre have understandable resentments about their jobs being lost but a lot of them don’t seem to want to hear about alternatives like green jobs. And honestly I think we have tried listening to them. I really do but I think so many of them really don’t value the concerns of many in our base. Sad to say but many blue collar whites don’t seem to see a woman’s right to choose as a legitimate issue, nor protection for LGBT people, or immigrants and racial minorities not being treated as the other in their country. Being working class isn’t easy I know but as I said, they’re not being threatened the way other groups are and it was the Republicans that started the cultural wars all along.

186
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:38:54am

This is the first Trump nominee who doesn’t seem to be a raving lunatic

187
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:40:10am

re: #186 The Vicious Babushka

This is the first Trump nominee who doesn’t seem to be a raving lunatic

[Embedded content]

He’s only the Defense Secretary du jour. Trump may have a new pick by next Tuesday.

188
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:40:18am

re: #183 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I really felt like I had more than a bit in common with Anymouse in terms of ancestry and personal history, but he revealed a side of him that I did not expect. But then again, I fled the Midwest in the 70’s and Arizona & the US in the 80’s and have been observing events from across the pond since then.

Yeah I have a similar ancestry on my mother’s side as you know. And I know he hasn’t had it easy. I believe he talked about having been homeless at one point. I just sort of lost it when I felt he implied that he was the only one that had to worry. I don’t sleep with a gun under my bed I concede but I have my own worries too. He really will be missed but I just think he could have listened better. It’s a shame.

189
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:41:02am

I don’t necessarily disagree with the sad fact that middle America is lost to the democrats, at least in rural areas, but if Nebraska is anything like my home state of Illinois, the family farm is no more. Farming is big business with massive subsidies. The best and only hope to get those guys on board this election cycle was the TPP, which would have opened markets more for their grain and beef. Otherwise, the towns are—as someone noted—dependent on a handful of service businesses and hopefully a factory or prison. Not even redistribution campaigns work when the people call you a communist while extending their hands for the help.

190
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:41:45am

re: #186 The Vicious Babushka

This is the first Trump nominee who doesn’t seem to be a raving lunatic

[Embedded content]

My mom who worked in DOD for years says Mattis is legit. But yeah this is the only pick that doesn’t really bother me. I just worry that Trump is only impressed with his military creds and the “Mad Dog” nickname and will get pissy if Mattis turns out to be less like his pal Flynn.

191
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:43:56am

re: #190 HappyWarrior

My mom who worked in DOD for years says Mattis is legit. But yeah this is the only pick that doesn’t really bother me. I just worry that Trump is only impressed with his military creds and the “Mad Dog” nickname and will get pissy if Mattis turns out to be less like his pal Flynn.

I dunno. Trump’s impressed by generals, and he may accept criticism from Mattis more than from some civilian. We could hope some of that military school deference to authority has stayed with him.

192
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:44:45am

GOP voters are fucking idiots. They don’t appreciate how good things are, so they vote for the most unqualified and vile subhuman to ever run for office because of “rah rah we won1111”.

193
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:45:08am

re: #189 Barefoot Grin

I don’t necessarily disagree with the sad fact that middle America is lost to the democrats, at least in rural areas, but if Nebraska is anything like my home state of Illinois, the family farm is no more. Farming is big business with massive subsidies. The best and only hope to get those guys on board this election cycle was the TPP, which would have opened markets more for their grain and beef. Otherwise, the towns are—as someone noted—dependent on a handful of service businesses and hopefully a factory or prison. Not even redistribution campaigns work when the people call you a communist while extending their hands for the help.

I don’t think it’s lost either. I just think the way to regain it will be through locals that live there and know the culture and people. Politics at its basic level is about people. The problem is so many people in those areas have a lot of beliefs on positions that are very much against where we stand. Not all of them are necessarily bad people because of that but a lot of them just don’t want to understand why we as Democrats/liberals value the things we do. And maybe we’re guilty of not understanding what they value to some extent too but I get greatly annoyed when people who are equally as dependent on the government as anyone else dismiss others as mere moochers.

194
Sherlock Hound  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:46:01am

re: #174 The Vicious Babushka

I put him on GAZE after he attempted to whitesplain to me that the capital of Israel is in Tel Aviv, in spite of the seat of government, the Knesset and the PM all being in Jerusalem. He did this by repeatedly linking to some wikipedia article about some bullshit non-binding UN resolution. This same bullshit non-binding UN res also said all Jews must evacuate from ALL PARTS of Jerusalem. I was like WTF.

I really admired AS for being an elected official in a small town, as I’m an appointed official myself. But I’m not keen on being called a “coastal elite”, especially the time when he was saying that farmers he knew would stop selling goods to coastal liberals, which is a nice fantasy of the right-wing. It was beneath him, and I’m disappointed.

This is a sad distraction from a fact I’ve noticed: The 2nd Civil War will not take place between us or AM, or the North and the South. I am convinced, from what I hear in my own state, that it will be house-to-house, person-to-person.

And it will be brutal and devastating, even if a shot is never fired.

195
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:46:08am

re: #192 Dr. Matt

[Embedded content]

GOP voters are fucking idiots. They don’t appreciate how good things are, so they vote for the most unqualified and vile subhuman to ever run for office because of “rah rah we won1111”.

I remember when Romney boasted he could get it to seven percent. Obama won’t get the credit he deserves in his lifetime for what he did. I think he’ll go down as a top ten President when all things are considered in the end.

196
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:46:34am

re: #185 HappyWarrior

The thing is the decline in these areas began long before Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. As I said yesterday, I can remember vividly visiting my grandparents hometown in Pennsylvania in the mid 90’s and it being different than what it had been when they were kids and even when they would take my mom and uncle to visit.

Yesterday people were posting lyrics from Billy Joel’s Allantown.

I never got around to replying with Bruce:

Now Main Street’s whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain’t nobody wants to come down here no more
They’re closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain’t coming back to your hometown

197
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:59am

re: #194 Sherlock Hound

I really admired AS for being an elected official in a small town, as I’m an appointed official myself. But I’m not keen on being called a “coastal elite”, especially the time when he was saying that farmers he knew would stop selling goods to coastal liberals, which is a nice fantasy of the right-wing. It was beneath him, and I’m disappointed.

This is a sad distraction from a fact I’ve noticed: The 2nd Civil War will not take place between us or AM, or the North and the South. I am convinced, from what I hear in my own state, that it will be house-to-house, person-to-person.

And it will be brutal and devastating, even if a shot is never fired.

Yeah the divide isn’t really a regional or even truly a geographical divide. It’s a cultural divide and there are people on both sides of the divide throughout the country.

198
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:50:46am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

I remember when Romney boasted he could get it to seven percent. Obama won’t get the credit he deserves in his lifetime for what he did. I think he’ll go down as a top ten President when all things are considered in the end.

If there had been a republican in the WH over the last 8 years with this economy, they would have created a ‘Mt Rushmore II’ for that person.

199
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:51:25am

re: #185 HappyWarrior

The thing is the decline in these areas began long before Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. As I said yesterday, I can remember vividly visiting my grandparents hometown in Pennsylvania in the mid 90’s and it being different than what it had been when they were kids and even when they would take my mom and uncle to visit. The people tehre have understandable resentments about their jobs being lost but a lot of them don’t seem to want to hear about alternatives like green jobs. And honestly I think we have tried listening to them. I really do but I think so many of them really don’t value the concerns of many in our base. Sad to say but many blue collar whites don’t seem to see a woman’s right to choose as a legitimate issue, nor protection for LGBT people, or immigrants and racial minorities not being treated as the other in their country. Being working class isn’t easy I know but as I said, they’re not being threatened the way other groups are and it was the Republicans that started the cultural wars all along.

I visited distant relatives in Uniontown, PA, in ‘78 with my uncle. That’s where my late aunt hailed from, and we stayed with her kin. Her brother was a steelworker, but on disability. Not sure what his wife did. The town itself was pretty rundown even then. Uncle and I agreed that neither of us would ever want to live there.

After college, I could have taken a newspaper job in Atlantic City. Glad I turned that one down. Talk about depressing places.

200
Lupin  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:52:26am

But… But… Indiana… Unemployment…

201
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:54:52am

re: #200 Lupin

But… But… Indiana… Unemployment…

Just mirror that for developments under Trump

202
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:59:08am

re: #199 wheat-dogg

I visited distant relatives in Uniontown, PA, in ‘78 with my uncle. That’s where my late aunt hailed from, and we stayed with her kin. Her brother was a steelworker, but on disability. Not sure what his wife did. The town itself was pretty rundown even then. Uncle and I agreed that neither of us would ever want to live there.

After college, I could have taken a newspaper job in Atlantic City. Glad I turned that one down. Talk about depressing places.

There are so many towns like Uniontown and Johnstown throughout the country. Towns that were once bustling during the heart of industrialization but have declined. Lots of people have moved on. It’s just sad honestly. I certainly understand their frustration but those jobs simply aren’t coming back. And honestly I’m glad. I’m glad men and women that were ibce steel workers and coal miners may get more healthy places to work. When my great grandfather died in 1950, he was only 52, he was healthy aside from his lungs which were run down from years of working in the mines.

203
Weaselone  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:00:01am

re: #181 wheat-dogg

Basically, those folks are screwed no matter who’s in charge.

At least with Democrats they would get lube, condoms and medical care to treat any resulting STDs.

The Democrats actually do offer a vision that could help rural America. Embracing diversity does offer the potential to revitalize rural areas. The infusion of new people could reverse population decline in these areas, bring in young, entrepreneurial people and create new businesses, markets and jobs. Investment in green technology, education and IT infrastructure opens up the possibility of decentralized energy production, and the creation or relocation of some of these jobs away from urban centers. The problem seems to be that the people still living in these areas dream of going back to an idealized past they find comfortable instead of reaching for a possible future that is foreign to them.

204
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:01:26am

re: #200 Lupin

But… But… Indiana… Unemployment…

[Embedded content]

And the state grew more Republican after that. Thanks Obama! But hey let’s hear more about “economic anxiety”. I’m sorry if I sound dismissive but things have gotten better since Obama has been President. It’s not Utopia but if you can’t see with your own two eyes that things have improved since Obama took office eight years ago economically, you’re blinded by your own grudge against him.

205
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:02:21am

re: #203 Weaselone

At least with Democrats they would get lube, condoms and medical care to treat any resulting STDs.

The Democrats actually do offer a vision that could help rural America. Embracing diversity does offer the potential to revitalize rural areas. The infusion of new people could reverse population decline in these areas, bring in young, entrepreneurial people and create new businesses, markets and jobs. Investment in green technology, education and IT infrastructure opens up the possibility of decentralized energy production, and the creation or relocation of some of these jobs away from urban centers. The problem seems to be that the people still living in these areas dream of going back to an idealized past they find comfortable instead of reaching for a possible future that is foreign to them.

Indeed, that to me seems to be the biggest problem. And I just don’t know how you change that mindset.

206
jeffreyw  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:02:47am

Imgur


Good morning!

207
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:02:56am

re: #202 HappyWarrior

There are so many towns like Uniontown and Johnstown throughout the country. Towns that were once bustling during the heart of industrialization but have declined. Lots of people have moved on. It’s just sad honestly. I certainly understand their frustration but those jobs simply aren’t coming back. And honestly I’m glad. I’m glad men and women that were ibce steel workers and coal miners may get more healthy places to work. When my great grandfather died in 1950, he was only 52, he was healthy aside from his lungs which were run down from years of working in the mines.

I grew up in Gary, Indiana. Enough said.

208
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:03:15am

re: #200 Lupin

But… But… Indiana… Unemployment…

[Embedded content]

209
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:05:33am

re: #207 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I grew up in Gary, Indiana. Enough said.

Rudy! Rudy! Rudy! (Ok, I guess he was from Joliet, but that’s all I could come up with). It used to scare the hell out of me driving past Gary on my way to Chicago. Maybe it’s nicer off of the Interstate, but that area is bleak.

210
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:07:06am

re: #207 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I grew up in Gary, Indiana. Enough said.

Yeah Gary was a big steel town I believe.

211
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:12:10am

re: #206 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Good morning!

Dunno why someone downdinged breakfast… But offset.

212
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:13:35am

Look at all the Soros plants!!!!

Facebook Post

213
Donkey With No Name  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:14:03am

re: #181 wheat-dogg

This is very true. To some extent, people in hard-hit areas could find work if they could pull up stakes and move where there are jobs, but saying is way easier than doing.

But this is the great American story: migrating (either internally or from another country) in search of economic opportunity. And the mechanics are certainly much easier today than it was in the 1600s or 1800s. (Though it is true that we no longer have “free” Native American land to settle on …) I would think the immigrants from south of us who make their way here face much higher barriers: distance, language, and potentially legality, but they still do it.

Yes, comparatively I’m well off, but in my academic career I’ve had to move several times (including to a foreign country which speaks a different language) and to do it on a grad student or postdoc salary. In the end, to get a long-term job I basically looked around for anyone in the US who would hire me - certainly didn’t intend to wind up in Texas, and if things had gone slightly differently I might have ended up in upstate New York or somewhere else random. In any case, nowhere near my hometown.

So, in all, I’m not very impressed when someone praises their pioneer ancestors and then explains why they can’t move for better economic opportunity.

214
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:16:37am

re: #213 Donkey With No Name

So, in all, I’m not very impressed when someone praises their pioneer ancestors and then explains why they can’t move for better economic opportunity.

Some people are getting by from hand to mouth, they could not afford the moving costs or the grubstake to relocate. Nor could they afford the re-training that it would take to make them employable at anything other than the job they lost when the local factory closed.

215
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:19:37am
216
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:21:00am

re: #214 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Some people are getting by from hand to mouth, they could not afford the moving costs or the grubstake to relocate. Nor could they afford the re-training that it would take to make them employable at anything other than the job they lost when the local factory closed.

I’m with you on this. I’ve moved many times because I had to and I could. But imagine when you just pray that you can get your security deposit back in full so that you can hopefully cover the deposit in the next place (and if it’s a place with jobs, housing will be more expensive). And that’s just the beginning of the hurdles.

217
Donkey With No Name  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:26:02am

re: #214 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Some people are getting by from hand to mouth, they could not afford the moving costs or the grubstake to relocate. Nor could they afford the re-training that it would take to make them employable at anything other than the job they lost when the local factory closed.

Perhaps. People from Mexico who hardly speak English can be found handling all the agricultural output in eastern Oregon, and I doubt they were well-off before moving, bought first class tickets to Pasco, or paid for training. But yes, those are terrible jobs beneath the dignity of Real Americans, so let’s moan about the missing factories.

218
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:27:00am

re: #217 Donkey With No Name

Perhaps. People from Mexico who hardly speak English can be found handling all the agricultural output in eastern Oregon, and I doubt they were well-off before moving, bought first class tickets to Pasco, or paid for training. But yes, those are terrible jobs beneath the dignity of Real Americans, so let’s moan about the missing factories.

That’s a fair point,, too, I guess. My perspective is firmly middle class.

219
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:28:05am

re: #217 Donkey With No Name

Perhaps. People from Mexico who hardly speak English can be found handling all the agricultural output in eastern Oregon, and I doubt they were well-off before moving, bought first class tickets to Pasco, or paid for training. But yes, those are terrible jobs beneath the dignity of Real Americans, so let’s moan about the missing factories.

That is a good point. Honestly I really think the problem is so many of them want a mythological past that never was to return.

220
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:30:56am

re: #219 HappyWarrior

That is a good point. Honestly I really think the problem is so many of them want a mythological past that never was to return.

The thing about beliefs is you still have to deal with them even if they make no sense.

221
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:31:32am

re: #220 Belafon

The thing about beliefs is you still have to deal with them even if they make no sense.

Yeah that is true.

222
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:35:44am

re: #217 Donkey With No Name

Perhaps. People from Mexico who hardly speak English can be found handling all the agricultural output in eastern Oregon, and I doubt they were well-off before moving, bought first class tickets to Pasco, or paid for training. But yes, those are terrible jobs beneath the dignity of Real Americans, so let’s moan about the missing factories.

Yes: American factory jobs are about not having to have a degree or a qualification, just some basic training and hard work. Then after you have acquired a bit of seniority you are doing well enough to afford a house and a car and maybe a boat or a vacation home.

That was the Great American Dream.

223
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:36:17am

re: #220 Belafon

The thing about beliefs is you still have to deal with them even if they make no sense.

Trump appealed to enough of those people to secure him the Presidency.

224
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:40:06am

FFS

225
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:42:38am

re: #224 Dr. Matt

FFS

[Embedded content]

Even if true, he wasn’t nominated. End of story and Dylan totally ignores that the GOP had a lot of dirt on Bernie that would have doomed him.

226
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:45:09am

re: #203 Weaselone

At least with Democrats they would get lube, condoms and medical care to treat any resulting STDs.

The Democrats actually do offer a vision that could help rural America. Embracing diversity does offer the potential to revitalize rural areas. The infusion of new people could reverse population decline in these areas, bring in young, entrepreneurial people and create new businesses, markets and jobs. Investment in green technology, education and IT infrastructure opens up the possibility of decentralized energy production, and the creation or relocation of some of these jobs away from urban centers. The problem seems to be that the people still living in these areas dream of going back to an idealized past they find comfortable instead of reaching for a possible future that is foreign to them.

The BBC ran a story a while ago about a rundown town in Italy that was losing population. Their solution? Open their doors to refugees, give them empty homes to live in, and train them to replace the workers who left for greener pastures.

Contrast that the current Republican message of all refugees and immigrants are moochers, criminals and terrorists.

As you said, that idealized past is not coming back as long as the world runs on electronic communication and finance, and stuff is made thousands of miles from where it will be sold. They’re like buggy-whip and carriage makers wishing the automobile would just go away.

227
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:48:19am

re: #222 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Yes: American factory jobs are about not having to have a degree or a qualification, just some basic training and hard work. Then after you have acquired a bit of seniority you are doing well enough to afford a house and a car and maybe a boat or a vacation home.

That was the Great American Dream.

There are so many jobs for educated professionals in technical fields there are not enough Americans to fill them, that is why you see so many immigrants in IT and engineering.

At the facility I worked at previously, the work force was about 90% white male. They recruited technicians from the dealerships, provided additional training and put them on a career path.

The facility I work at now has a very large population of immigrants, brought in to do the highly skilled tech work that Americans don’t have the education to do. The guy who sits next to me is from India. The guy on the other side & the guy opposite are Russian. There are some older Americans here with antique skills, supporting legacy apps.

228
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:48:21am

re: #194 Sherlock Hound

I really admired AS for being an elected official in a small town, as I’m an appointed official myself. But I’m not keen on being called a “coastal elite”, especially the time when he was saying that farmers he knew would stop selling goods to coastal liberals, which is a nice fantasy of the right-wing. It was beneath him, and I’m disappointed.

I’ll be honest here - something about that guy never sat right with me. For all of his moaning about how we ‘elites’ didn’t get it and his offense at how ‘we’ slammed people who lived in ‘flyover country’ for being dumb and ill-informed (whether ‘we’ did that or not), he never failed to end up doing to us exactly what he accused ‘us’ of doing to him. Always struck me as kinda DARVO-ish.

Lizards went out of their way to hear him out every time he re-told his tale, but in spite of that fact he would still end up including us all in his (misguided, IMO) perception of ‘coastal elites.’ And inevitably those discussions would end in insults and snide remarks about how we didn’t understand and it was our fault at the end of the day.

And honestly, toward the end he seemed to be more about disruption than discussion.

229
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:48:56am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. We’re going to be rehashing the election for a long time to come, and why things turned out the way that they did. Clinton continues to expand her lead in the popular vote, but the EC isn’t going to change, and she lost by enough votes in enough states to give Trump the win.

How do Democrats come back from this?

How do Democrats combat an electorate that is primed to ignore facts and logic and simply accept lies because they’re repeated enough. Trump lied more than anyone else running, but he painted Clinton as corrupt and a liar, and it stuck. Even when Trump’s lies were pointed out by the media, they were playing catchup as he was already on the next lie.

Then there’s the bogus news that circulated, which is how an increasingly number of people get their news. I heard it on Facebook, Twitter, social media, or Fox, so it must be true.

Add to that the structural problems with a significant portion of the country dominated by GOPers who control at the state level.

Where do Democrats spend the money? Trying to hold on to what they have, or try to make inroads? Who gets support. How is that support given. This election showed that there are significant issues with the Democrats, but also that voters are fickle and will buy anything if they’re given simple slogans.

The Rust Belt went for Trump, not because Trump has a policy that makes sense, but because he’s got a slogan that is easily repeated and people bought it. He’ll bring back jobs. He’ll make America great. Coal mines aren’t coming back, no matter what Trump says, but those miners think he’s going to help them. They were conned, and they don’t quite know it yet.

The Carrier “deal” is just another symptom of the problem - a media that touts Trump statements, even though the reality is something quite different. Crony capitalism and paying subsidies to a company to relocate half its workforce offshore.

But how do you overcome this? How do you win districts in places that are deep red right now? How do you support Democrats in those deep red places? I’ve been saying for a long time that the DNC has to help down ticket races, since that’s how things start to turn around. You have to run candidates in all races - you can’t let people go unopposed. This is how you cultivate a new generation of leaders, and show that the GOP isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. Easier said than done, especially when incumbents hold significant advantages.

My home district was an outlier in this respect. The long-time incumbent GOPer was booted by a Democrat, who managed to out-raise him by a significant margin. Can this happen in the Plains States and elsewhere? Not at once. But it can happen if enough people get together to make winning local elections a priority.

The DNC needs a full time strategy person who can push a 50-state strategy, and getting someone from Congress to do it in his or her spare time is a recipe for disaster. So, if it’s Howard Dean or someone else entirely, make it happen. And don’t let Sanders anywhere near the party apparatus IMO, since he’s not a Democrat. Even after running in the primary, he still doesn’t consider himself a Democrat. No - just no.

But the DNC is the tip of the spear - there’s a long logistics train behind them that need to be modernized and made nimble to go after winning those down ticket races. That’s up to the state party organizations, and the local party organizations. A lot of those organizations need to be knocked off their complacency/acceptance of the way things are and move ahead with a progressive agenda that highlights all the things that are good about the Democrats’ policies, and what is wrong with the GOP agenda that seeks to take away decades of progress.

So, by the time you read this far, you’ll probably note that this was partly in response to Anymouse’s flounce yesterday. I downdinged him for it, and I stand by it. You can’t bemoan lack of support in local government consistently without being called out for it because there are no good answers that don’t take a lot of time and money that doesn’t just appear overnight. With limited resources, you need to focus on where you can do the most good- all while holding the line locally.

Democrats need to target 25 seats to switch starting now. They need to go all in on making this happen for 2018. They gained seats in the just concluded election, but nowhere near enough. So, there’s room to work with. It means recultivating Blue Dog Democrats and Scoop Jackson Democrats. 25 seats would be more than enough to flip the House. The common theme is protecting and expanding civil rights, while expanding economic opportunities for all. Trump and GOP policies, particularly through his nominee choices so far, show that they’re pushing the 1% elites over all else. That’s not helping anyone except the rich get richer, and everyone else fights over the scraps.

These are all areas of vulnerability for the GOP, and Democrats have to drive this home. That means not only in the 25 target districts, but everywhere. It means standing alone if need be in a deep red district (and being considered a Cassandra in the process). But help will come if and when Democrats stand and fight for what they believe in.

2018 starts now.

230
jeffreyw  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:49:26am

re: #211 Unshaken Defiance

Must have been the artsy cherry tomatoes.

231
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:50:34am

re: #226 wheat-dogg

The BBC ran a story a while ago about a rundown town in Italy that was losing population. Their solution? Open their doors to refugees, give them empty homes to live in, and train them to replace the workers who left for greener pastures.

Contrast that the current Republican message of all refugees and immigrants are moochers, criminals and terrorists.

As you said, that idealized past is not coming back as long as the world runs on electronic communication and finance, and stuff is made thousands of miles from where it will be sold. They’re like buggy-whip and carriage makers wishing the automobile would just go away.

I’ll have to look at that. Sounds like an interesting story.

232
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:51:23am

re: #213 Donkey With No Name

But this is the great American story: migrating (either internally or from another country) in search of economic opportunity. And the mechanics are certainly much easier today than it was in the 1600s or 1800s. (Though it is true that we no longer have “free” Native American land to settle on …) I would think the immigrants from south of us who make their way here face much higher barriers: distance, language, and potentially legality, but they still do it.

Yes, comparatively I’m well off, but in my academic career I’ve had to move several times (including to a foreign country which speaks a different language) and to do it on a grad student or postdoc salary. In the end, to get a long-term job I basically looked around for anyone in the US who would hire me - certainly didn’t intend to wind up in Texas, and if things had gone slightly differently I might have ended up in upstate New York or somewhere else random. In any case, nowhere near my hometown.

So, in all, I’m not very impressed when someone praises their pioneer ancestors and then explains why they can’t move for better economic opportunity.

I have in-laws (actually, now out-laws) who have never traveled further than a couple of 100 miles from home. Meanwhile, I’ve lived in six different states and visited scores more, plus lived in two foreign countries and visited scores more. Some people are just too set in their ways to even contemplate taking a long vacation trip, even when they have the money. These people with so-called economic anxiety just don’t understand that the old days will never come back. You either hop on the train as it pulls away from the station, or you get left behind.

233
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:54:46am
234
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:56:08am

OPEC has just agreed on a production cut which will spike oil prices just in time to trip up the economy…and it will be Obama’s fault for not building more pipelines and drilling more offshore.

235
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:57:17am

re: #227 The Vicious Babushka

There are so many jobs for educated professionals in technical fields there are not enough Americans to fill them, that is why you see so many immigrants in IT and engineering.

Kids who are religious-homeschooled or go to fundie schools don’t get the kind of secondary school education required for those kinds of degrees or certificates. And rural public schools often don’t have the resources for such preparation either. Plus, Americans as a group don’t seem to appreciate STEM as a way up the economic ladder as people do in China, India, Korea and so on.

236
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:59:14am

re: #226 wheat-dogg

The BBC ran a story a while ago about a rundown town in Italy that was losing population. Their solution? Open their doors to refugees, give them empty homes to live in, and train them to replace the workers who left for greener pastures.

That begs the question: why did the workers leave if there were still jobs to be filled? I think I may have read the same story but the village in question was losing population because young people didn’t want to stay there and old people were dying off.

237
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:59:50am

re: #235 wheat-dogg

Kids who are religious-homeschooled or go to fundie schools don’t get the kind of secondary school education required for those kinds of degrees or certificates. And rural public schools often don’t have the resources for such preparation either. Plus, Americans as a group don’t seem to appreciate STEM as a way up the economic ladder as people do in China, India, Korea and so on.

Because, again, they were raised in a system where you did not need to worry about higher education or advanced training: you got a factory job after finishing high school, worked hard there, saved money and did well enough that way.

And they refuse to accept that such a system has seen its heyday in our country

238
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:00:02am

re: #234 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

OPEC has just agreed on a production cut which will spike oil prices just in time to trip up the economy…and it will be Obama’s fault for not building more pipelines and drilling more offshore.

All while energy company profits go through the roof and restart the wells that they shuttered because oil prices were below $40-45. It means that the companies that halted exploration in places like the Dakotas and Oklahoma will restart those efforts, and hire again - all while reaping the profits.

It means states heavily dependent on oil prices will see their state coffers swell with revenues as well. But it will sap the earnings of everyone else as costs go up. Transportation costs and airlines will hurt (although airlines have been hedging against oil prices for a long time now and already pass on oil costs in surcharges).

239
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:01:45am

re: #231 HappyWarrior

I’ll have to look at that. Sounds like an interesting story.

BBC from September bbc.com

The Guardian from 2013 theguardian.com

240
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:05:23am

re: #239 wheat-dogg

BBC from September bbc.com

The Guardian from 2013 theguardian.com

Thanks about to go to work now. But I’ll look at it on my lunch break.

241
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:07:16am

re: #236 The Vicious Babushka

That begs the question: why did the workers leave if there were still jobs to be filled? I think I may have read the same story but the village in question was losing population because young people didn’t want to stay there and old people were dying off.

That was it. Also, many houses and flats were lying vacant, and attracting vandals and other undesirables. The mayor of Riace figured if refugees needed homes, and homes needed occupants, why not open their doors to the migrants? It’s hard to say if it is a long-term solution, because eventually the migrants will move on to better paying jobs in bigger cities. Some may stay, though. First-generation immigrants have a long history of working hard to create a good life for their children. Makes no difference where they came from or why they came.

242
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:08:54am

re: #238 lawhawk

Newer jetliners are more fuel efficient now, too. Gas hogs like the 747s are reaching the end of their useful lives.

243
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:09:08am

re: #233 lawhawk
Don’t forget…..

244
Donkey With No Name  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:09:27am

re: #234 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

OPEC has just agreed on a production cut which will spike oil prices just in time to trip up the economy…and it will be Obama’s fault for not building more pipelines and drilling more offshore.

OTOH jobs for North Dakota and Texas, I assume.

(Incidentally, with all the noise about bringing back coal, the question nobody ever asked was “why do you hate gas field workers so much?”)

245
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:09:55am

re: #237 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Also used to be those factory jobs could frequently transition into corporate gigs. Now all the corporate gigs go to business majors with little or no industry experience while the tenured guys who actually understand how the business works get trapped in middle management…if they are lucky.

246
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:12:45am

re: #245 Eclectic Cyborg

Also used to be those factory jobs could frequently transition into corporate gigs. Now all the corporate gigs go to business majors with little or no industry experience while the tenured guys who actually understand how the business works get trapped in middle management…if they are lucky.

And that’s where us coastal elites (including those of us who don’t live near any coast) would definitely agree that things are messed up.

247
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:14:28am

Makers and Takers, 2016 edition…

248
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:16:45am

re: #245 Eclectic Cyborg

Also used to be those factory jobs could frequently transition into corporate gigs. Now all the corporate gigs go to business majors with little or no industry experience while the tenured guys who actually understand how the business works get trapped in middle management…if they are lucky.

As I said previously, at my last job they recruited mechanics (usually guys with high school diploma or 2-year degree from community college) and put them on a career path to get a 4-year degree and move up the ladder in an engineering position. So that is still a viable option but you have to start out knowing enough about cars to get hired at a dealership. All the mechanics had to attend our training center to learn how to work on the newer models which of course involves gaining skills in new technology like vehicle electronics.

249
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:17:44am

Incoming RWNJ butthurt…

250
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:18:13am

re: #229 lawhawk

If anyone scrolled past lawhawks 229 but has serious questions about the state of the Democratic party and where to go from here…..scroll back up now and read it.

251
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:18:17am

re: #244 Donkey With No Name

OTOH jobs for North Dakota and Texas, I assume.

(Incidentally, with all the noise about bringing back coal, the question nobody ever asked was “why do you hate gas field workers so much?”)

Because the War on Coal has been conveniently blamed on government safety and environmental regulations, not the actual market situation.

252
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:20:14am

I have taken out a subscription to Mother Jones.

253
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:21:32am

re: #243 Dr. Matt

Don’t forget…..

[Embedded content]

*median*

Pre-caffeine tweet.

254
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:22:13am

Apropos of all this economic data, I’ve been checking up today on when I am supposed to file with the SSA about my retirement benefits. The earliest I can file will be September 2017, and I could start receiving payments beginning 2018 if I want. I was hoping I could receive SSA payments while I was still working in China, but the SSA regulations say something about not working more than 45 hours a month while working abroad. I have 66 hours of class time each month now. So, if I report those hours, I assume the SSA will dock my benefits proportionally. Same thing happened to my dad when he started working P/T as a retiree. The SSA got wind of it, and he had to pay several grand back to the Administration.

So, my choices are keep working until I can’t stand it anymore and collect Social Security later, or collect SS beginning in 2018 and somehow not work 45 hours a month in China. Or hit the slots in Macau and win a few jackpots.

rye1HdjsD2er3LU+2pugMVxhQhfYJkGRWegG7Kci45ADe//cGNlqO4+p3EIVBuLp/HT1lzdOLxbeTayXH0UgGKWvoUXU3jxDefSqUBym9wzMFffO/WHh4ZrfGcvoL/+QX41O03l1PQCvphsPs4QK9d+bjKo7uZbF7b/3Iv5AFn3YtYI7Qgbr6+t414ocgTJJrEpuv7pAqC3glZ6rb/QFz9Ow+Z0jeWcvvuH6+ZsQ32snH5vJRlGUUCNSKPPx1Repu4vP127sPzwx8cTbrTHfvl2nRIIY7a82F4nteaTBqodaYgaqYiv7qxri0hmqGPGNgGgDsi28h4vWGHtKLur022sffAO1kLtU

255
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:23:24am

re: #242 wheat-dogg

Newer jetliners are more fuel efficient now, too. Gas hogs like the 747s are reaching the end of their useful lives.

Delta and United each have a handful of 747s, but are in the process of retiring those planes in favor of other widebodies - 787s, 777s, or Airbus A350s. Delta will retire its 747s by end of 2017. United will retire its fleet by end of 2018 (they have more 747s that have to be retired).

256
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:23:45am

And this shit

257
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:25:43am

re: #256 Dr. Matt

And this shit

[Embedded content]

It’s almost as if they don’t want to know about voter fraud and foreign meddling in elections, even though fraud was a big issue during the campaign.

258
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:41:16am

Time for bed here, folks. Enjoy your day, or evening as the case may be.

259
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:46:37am

re: #222 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Yes: American factory jobs are about not having to have a degree or a qualification, just some basic training and hard work. Then after you have acquired a bit of seniority you are doing well enough to afford a house and a car and maybe a boat or a vacation home.

That was the Great American Dream.

And in many cases, it was unions that helped that happen. But the party they now support is loudly anti-union and all for “right to work (for less money and worse working conditions) states.”

260
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:49:30am

re: #259 BeachDem

And in many cases, it was unions that helped that happen. But the party they now support is loudly anti-union and all for “right to work (for less money and worse working conditions) states.”

Because individuals and families with limited incomes and assets should be expected to negotiate on equal terms for employment with multi-million/billion-dollar international corporations…

261
CuriousLurker  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:52:04am

re: #186 The Vicious Babushka

This is the first Trump nominee who doesn’t seem to be a raving lunatic

[Embedded content]

Regarding “Mad Dog” the WaPo quotes:

Mr. Trump made the announcement at a rally in Cincinnati, calling General Mattis “the closest thing we have to Gen. George Patton.”

I guess we’ll just have to hope that doesn’t include Patton’s antisemitism, huh?

I’m guessing Netanyahu will like his hostility towards Iran (and Obama), but Mattis is also apparently in favor of a two-state solution in Israel and against the settlements. Things in the Mideast are gonna get interesting, I guess. Because, y’know things over there are so boring at present—we could use a little upheaval. //

262
electrotek  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:53:52am

Saudi Arabia, nothing but a mirror image of Iran

263
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:55:52am

re: #261 CuriousLurker

Regarding “Mad Dog” the WaPo quotes:

I guess we’ll just have to hope that doesn’t include Patton’s antisemitism, huh?

I’m guessing Netanyahu will like his hostility towards Iran (and Obama), but Mattis is also apparently in favor of a two-state solution in Israel and against the settlements. Things in the Mideast are gonna get interesting, I guess. Because, y’know things over there are so boring at present—we could use a little upheaval. //

All Trump knows about Patton is what he saw in that George C. Scott movie from 50 years ago.

264
electrotek  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:58:56am

re: #263 The Vicious Babushka

Wouldn’t surprise me.

265
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:00:26am

re: #261 CuriousLurker

Regarding “Mad Dog” the WaPo quotes:

I guess we’ll just have to hope that doesn’t include Patton’s antisemitism, huh?

I’m guessing Netanyahu will like his hostility towards Iran (and Obama), but Mattis is also apparently in favor of a two-state solution in Israel and against the settlements. Things in the Mideast are gonna get interesting, I guess. Because, y’know things over there are so boring at present—we could use a little upheaval. //

But, but I thought Jared Kushner, the modern-day Alexander Hamilton, was going to solve all the Middle East problems and bring peace in our time.
/

266
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:02:01am

re: #265 BeachDem

But, but I thought Jared Kushner, the modern-day Alexander Hamilton, was going to solve all the Middle East problems and bring peace in our time.
/

Maybe he will build a “Trump International” golf resort in the Negev.

267
sagehen  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:04:43am

re: #263 The Vicious Babushka

All Trump knows about Patton is what he saw in that George C. Scott movie from 50 years ago.

He still likes George C Scott after that Sacheen Littlefeather thing?!?

268
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:05:01am

re: #104 TedStriker

I had an hunch before I poked around that it was going to be a white shooter (who, from all accounts, was the aggressor) killing a unarmed black man; unfortunately, I was proven right.

nola.com

nola.com

Get a load of this:

This was a straight-up execution, a goddamn lynching in the middle of fucking traffic, but watch the fucker try some sort of “stand your ground” defense in court.

“I was afraid for my life” will be submitted into testimony more than once, I’m sure.

*spit*

Sickening update:

White man who gunned down black ex-NFL player in road rage case released without charges

rawstory.com

269
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:09:53am

re: #268 BeachDem

Sickening update:

White man who gunned down black ex-NFL player in road rage case released without charges

rawstory.com

WTF???? How do you get released without charges when PEOPLE SAW YOU DO IT??

270
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:11:37am

re: #268 BeachDem

Sickening update:

White man who gunned down black ex-NFL player in road rage case released without charges

rawstory.com

Oh NO!

271
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:11:52am

re: #268 BeachDem

Sickening update:

White man who gunned down black ex-NFL player in road rage case released without charges

rawstory.com

According to the story, it’s still under investigation, but it’s straight up white privilege that he was let go.

272
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:11:54am

re: #269 Eclectic Cyborg

WTF???? How do you get released without charges when PEOPLE SAW YOU DO IT??

Note color of state and color of victim/assailant

273
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:13:47am

re: #269 Eclectic Cyborg

WTF???? How do you get released without charges when PEOPLE SAW YOU DO IT??

Released pending investigation—because you know that’s just what would have happened if the situation were reversed. Uh huh.

274
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:14:12am

Back to the topic of how Democrats can connect to rural America, Charlie Pierce has a suggestion:

“You want a message that Democratic politicians can bring to those places where they rarely win? This is one of them, as is an overall demand for environmental justice. You can school folks on climate change at their leisure, but every farmer, and all the small businessmen whose livelihoods depend on the farmers, can understand dead land and poisoned water. Start small and build.”

esquire.com

275
Joe Bacon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:15:06am

re: #254 wheat-dogg

Cn9s+0x7lUD09EokWlW7pz82mXot6npaL7YTVbSZymujgioS2cjc6mgUZgvtzHNx2eVBMepjOvWtfVUQuU1O6aikc3p+mhh4bIcE9KdAiaJVwnvtktcudgkTxctE+2tqeNnCjPyRIpfpPvIgKYwt8Il6bIBa49ChkJUKoAdCvv6jkMJzUTYQZ8A9SfRChetCjdmo9TGyA+ifLkvidHG7y+xOD2GRk70hFoVwcpv31Us=

276
Joe Bacon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:16:03am

re: #269 Eclectic Cyborg

WTF???? How do you get released without charges when PEOPLE SAW YOU DO IT??

Easy. You use the Stand Your Ground law…

277
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:16:35am

re: #269 Eclectic Cyborg

WTF???? How do you get released without charges when PEOPLE SAW YOU DO IT??

Because white shooter, black victim.

Because Louisiana.

Because Bring on the Meteor.

278
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:17:16am

re: #276 Joe Bacon

Easy. You use the Stand Your Ground law…

After you drag the guy out of his car, and shoot at him while he’s on the ground.

279
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:22:28am

HuffPo Main headers:

EXTRA HELP: RYAN TUTORS TRUMP ON ‘CONSTITUTION’
REPORT CARD: FLUNKING

280
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:24:49am

re: #279 BeachDem

HuffPo Main headers:

EXTRA HELP: RYAN TUTORS TRUMP ON ‘CONSTITUTION’
REPORT CARD: FLUNKING

“No, Donald, you cannot force government employees to sign lifetime binding NDAs!”

281
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:28:38am

Fucking frogs and their fucking fake facts.

282
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:29:03am

As I have been the bearer of much bad news this morning, here is an uplifting story—with a lot of fabulous photos—enjoy:

The Obamas Light Their Last Christmas Tree As The First Family

huffingtonpost.com

283
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:30:50am

Hmmmm…

284
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:32:32am

re: #283 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Hmmmm…

If they’ll drop the “far-right fringe” part, they’ll be on their way.

285
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:33:24am

re: #278 Belafon

After you drag the guy out of his car, and shoot at him while he’s on the ground.

Worked for George Zimmerman, more or less. Be the aggressor then stand your ground.

286
lockjawcanbefun  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:34:16am
287
Donkey With No Name  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:35:22am

re: #274 retired cynic

Back to the topic of how Democrats can connect to rural America, Charlie Pierce has a suggestion:

“You want a message that Democratic politicians can bring to those places where they rarely win? This is one of them, as is an overall demand for environmental justice. You can school folks on climate change at their leisure, but every farmer, and all the small businessmen whose livelihoods depend on the farmers, can understand dead land and poisoned water. Start small and build.”

esquire.com

Agreed, though you’ve still got to get past this:

Darlene was initially reluctant to sign on, fearing how the community might react. “We’re up against DuPont, for God’s sake,” her husband says. “Everybody you talk to or look at has an uncle, brother, cousin—whatever—who is working at DuPont or associated with DuPont in some manner.” Sure enough, after the couple filed the class-action suit in August 2001, friends stopped talking to them. Strangers threw water bottles with homemade C8 labels at their house and called to abuse them. “One man wouldn’t quit shouting at me,” Darlene said. “He kept saying, ‘You’re taking my job away and you’re going to have to feed my kids and pay my bills if DuPont packs up and leaves because of this.’”

Callie Lyons, who catalogued the history of C8 in her book Stain-Resistant, Nonstick, Waterproof, and Lethal, traces the reaction in part to the region’s coal mining roots. For many West Virginians, disease and pollution are simply the price to be paid for economic security. “In the case of DuPont there’s also the perception that they could pack up and go to China at any second, so we’ve got to make them feel welcome,” Lyons said. “If you don’t, you’re not conforming to social norms.”

Welcome to Beautiful Parkersburg, West Virginia

288
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:36:17am

re: #284 Belafon

If they’ll drop the “far-right fringe” part, they’ll be on their way.

Yeah there is nothing fringe about these assholes anymore.

289
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:37:41am

Here’s a site to watch: Trumpgrets

Deadbeat Dad Joe Walsh has already made an appearance.

290
Sir John Barron  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:38:47am

re: #271 Belafon

According to the story, it’s still under investigation, but it’s straight up white privilege that he was let go.

He could still be charged. Hopefully.

291
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:39:18am

re: #286 lockjawcanbefun

Ho.Lee.F*ck

That was incredibly done. I am actually crying.

292
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:39:48am

re: #285 Franklin

Worked for George Zimmerman, more or less. Be the aggressor then stand your ground.

Then the races are inevitably inverted in a future incident…

293
Sir John Barron  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:45:53am

re: #285 Franklin

Worked for George Zimmerman, more or less. Be the aggressor then stand your ground.

And the media and the deplorables will inevitably demand that there be no protests about this case if no charges are filed. Just get over it.

/

294
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:46:06am

The latest tactic by my Facebook wingnuts is some variation of You libs aren’t even giving Trump a chance!!!

My stock reply is that I’ve given him a number of chances - to renounce the Nazis he’s hanging out with, to apologize to those individuals he’s attacked, to show people on my side that he even has a teaspoon full of good faith.

He’s failed every one of them. Why should I waste my time giving more ‘chances’ to someone who isn’t the least bit interested in taking them?

295
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:46:13am

Wow.

296
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:46:43am
297
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:47:21am

re: #295 Franklin

U.S. President-elect Trump invited Philippines’ Duterte to visit White House next year: Duterte aide.

See? They won’t even give Duerte a chance…

298
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:48:31am

re: #294 makeitstop

The latest tactic by my Facebook wingnuts is some variation of You libs aren’t even giving Trump a chance!!!

My stock reply is that I’ve given him a number of chances - to renounce the Nazis he’s hanging out with, to apologize to those individuals he’s attacked, to show people on my side that he even has a teaspoon full of good faith.

He’s failed every one of them. Why should I waste my time giving more ‘chances’ to someone who isn’t the least bit interested in taking them?

“You know the saying about hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst…”

299
Mattand  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:49:57am

Want to laugh and cry simultaneously?

Again: I am really, really resentful I have to share the country with these fucknuts. I just cannot for the life of me understand how people think like this and don’t hurt themselves everyday.

300
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:51:59am

Well, at least one Dem is taking a stand on Mattis and the 7-year rule for Sec. of Defense.

Kirsten Gillibrand (who is one of my faves—wonder why she’s seldom mentioned as a potential 2020 nom)

“While I deeply respect General Mattis’s service, I will oppose a waiver. Civilian control of our military is a fundamental principle of American democracy, and I will not vote for an exception to this rule.”

301
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:54:06am

re: #281 gocart mozart

Over that fact check the fucking green pussy blocked me.

You are blocked from following @MyNameIsSergius and viewing @MyNameIsSergius’s Tweets. Learn more

302
Mattand  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:54:34am

re: #299 Mattand

Want to laugh and cry simultaneously?

Again: I am really, really resentful I have to share the country with these fucknuts. I just cannot for the life of me understand how people think like this and don’t hurt themselves everyday.

Since I’m on a roll:

Trump voter lost her home to new Treasury secretary

People really hated Clinton and Obama that much they believed Trump would make everything better, despite every shred of evidence otherwise. Just. Wow.

303
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:54:38am
304
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:55:47am

re: #295 Franklin

[Embedded content]

Wow.

“Trump to seek advice from Duterte on drug problem….”

305
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:56:16am

re: #304 Barefoot Grin

“Trump to seek advice from Duterte on drug problem….”

His? Or the countries?

306
Sir John Barron  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:56:38am

re: #300 BeachDem

Well, at least one Dem is taking a stand on Mattis and the 7-year rule for Sec. of Defense.

Kirsten Gillibrand (who is one of my faves—wonder why she’s seldom mentioned as a potential 2020 nom)

“While I deeply respect General Mattis’s service, I will oppose a waiver. Civilian control of our military is a fundamental principle of American democracy, and I will not vote for an exception to this rule.”

Oh, I think she will get plenty of mention.

Also, how come she opposes Trump and hates America? ///

307
Sir John Barron  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:06:11am

re: #300 BeachDem

Well, at least one Dem is taking a stand on Mattis and the 7-year rule for Sec. of Defense.

Kirsten Gillibrand (who is one of my faves—wonder why she’s seldom mentioned as a potential 2020 nom)

“While I deeply respect General Mattis’s service, I will oppose a waiver. Civilian control of our military is a fundamental principle of American democracy, and I will not vote for an exception to this rule.”

Was Mattis one of the names floated for HRC’s VP? I thought there was some general who was under some consideration. May have been someone else.

308
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:09:56am

re: #307 Sir John Barron

Was Mattis one of the names floated for HRC’s VP? I thought there was some general who was under some consideration. May have been someone else.

I don’t think it would have been Mattis. He’s still within the window of ‘can’t serve in government because recently retired,’ and I don’t think the Clinton campaign would have even considered him because of that.

And I think Trump’s choice has an ulterior motive - to further dismantle the wall between civilian government and the military.

309
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:12:09am

re: #302 Mattand

Since I’m on a roll:

Trump voter lost her home to new Treasury secretary

People really hated Clinton and Obama that much they believed Trump would make everything better, despite every shred of evidence otherwise. Just. Wow.

Here’s the money quote:

“I just wish that I had not voted,” said (Teena) Colebrook, 59. “I have no faith in our government anymore at all. They all promise you the world at the end of a stick and take it away once they get in.”

I honestly expect to hear more and more of statements like these slowly trickle out as many people slowly realize that they got Punk’d by someone who makes used car salesmen the epitome of ethics and professionalism.

310
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:12:26am

re: #287 Donkey With No Name

That article has to be one of the most horrifying and appalling things I’ve ever read.

311
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:14:15am

It’s funny because it’s true.

312
Sir John Barron  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:15:47am

re: #311 gocart mozart

It’s funny because it’s true.

[Embedded content]

took me a couple of secs….

313
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:18:48am

Charles P. Pierce continues to come up with the best descriptive phrases:

One Trump’s victory (sorry, Thank You) tour:
the president-elect is now on a Wanks Over America Tour of self-congratulations.

On CNN’s pathetic reporting of same:
He danced again on the media’s head, despite this CNN dispatch that may set a record for suicide-by-euphemism.

On the panel discussion among campaign operatives:
Apparently, this devolved into something between a middle-school food fight and a lacrosse match played with human heads… And then they all took selfies and flounced off angrily to gym class.

esquire.com

314
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:33:39am

re: #309 Myron Falwell (no relation)

“They all promise you the world at the end of a stick and take it away once they get in.”

You voted for the candidate that did that. The other one promised to help as much as possible. But you chose the one that made you feel good/angry.

315
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:36:00am

re: #313 BeachDem

Charles P. Pierce continues to come up with the best descriptive phrases:

One Trump’s victory (sorry, Thank You) tour:
the president-elect is now on a Wanks Over America Tour of self-congratulations.

On CNN’s pathetic reporting of same:
He danced again on the media’s head, despite this CNN dispatch that may set a record for suicide-by-euphemism.

On the panel discussion among campaign operatives:
Apparently, this devolved into something between a middle-school food fight and a lacrosse match played with human heads… And then they all took selfies and flounced off angrily to gym class.

esquire.com

Hannah Arendt on the “banality of evil” is referenced. Damn. “Hashtag the end”

316
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:46:02am

re: #314 Belafon

“They all promise you the world at the end of a stick and take it away once they get in.”

You voted for the candidate that did that. The other one promised to help as much as possible. But you chose the one that made you feel good/angry.

Any RWNJ who blathers about so-called “low information voters” needs to have this tattooed on their face as a rebuttal.

317
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:04:06am
318
Romantic Heretic  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:04:13am

re: #254 wheat-dogg

I’m in much the same situation with my disability.

If I collect any income during the month ODSP deducts fifty cents for every dollar I make from my disability pension. They then add $100 to it.

So if I make more than $200 a month I’m essentially in a 50% tax bracket. If I make more than about $1,800 I get no disability pension at all.

Better than it used to be though. It used to be seventy five cents would be taken off the pension and no extra money. That was when a ‘conservative’ was Premier of Ontario. He ran on a ‘Common Sense’ platform and ‘Common Sense’ dictated that disabled people were just lazy assholes sucking on the government teat.

It was during this time that I lost my sanity as I was struggling with my illness and the stress of these ‘Common Sense’ political changes were more than I could handle.

319
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:07:35am

re: #318 Romantic Heretic

Didn’t even have to look at the link to know you were talking about Harris. I couldn’t stand him with a passion.

320
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:07:39am
321
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:09:02am

Evan McMullin goes off on Trump, starting here. Good stuff.

322
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:09:57am

My default response to people who say i need to give trump a chance: you never gave obama a chance.

323
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:10:22am

Morning Lizards.

I get to keep the cheese plate to myself this morning. Yay!

324
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:10:33am
325
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:11:54am
326
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:12:49am

re: #322 Eclectic Cyborg

My default response to people who say i need to give trump a chance: you never gave obama a chance.

I said as much to some dork on Facebook last night, but I made it sound nice.

‘I guarantee you that I will give Donald Trump every bit of the respect that conservatives gave Barack Obama when he took office. No more, no less.’

It really set the guy off for some reason.
/

327
Romantic Heretic  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:14:45am

re: #255 lawhawk

Delta and United each have a handful of 747s, but are in the process of retiring those planes in favor of other widebodies - 787s, 777s, or Airbus A350s. Delta will retire its 747s by end of 2017. United will retire its fleet by end of 2018 (they have more 747s that have to be retired).

I used to play a game many years ago called Aerobiz. Basically you had to run an airline; buy aircraft, airport slots, hotels and minor airlines. Try to make a profit. It was a lot of fun.

There was only one profitable route for 747s; New York/Tokyo. The 747 was the only plane for most of the game that had the range for that route and I could count on the seats being filled. For everything else I used Airbus aircraft for longer routes (New York/London, New York/Los Angeles) or commuter aircraft for shorter routes.

And while I was looking for links I found a site where I can play the game on line. :D

328
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:20:47am

Quiet here today. Is everyone sleeping in or something?

329
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:22:49am

It’s funny because it is happening.


4. Get Trump elected POTUS
5. Double LOL
330
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:23:25am

re: #263 The Vicious Babushka

All Trump knows about Patton is what he saw in that George C. Scott movie from 50 years ago.

Hey all! Man it is tough getting into political news these days. And this topic ices it. I guess I need to stop worrying about facts anymore since there none anyway.

Regarding Trump and Patton. I doubt Trump even associates the movie with the man. I think it is much simpler than that.

Trump likes Patton because he has a famous name. Same as MacArthur. And I doubt it goes much deeper than that.

I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t associate Eisenhower as a general and I doubt is he knows who Bradley was at all. Why? Because their names are not BIG…and Trump likes big.

Big is quick and easy, it gets the response because so many others have the same lack of depth as he. Why else would they gloss over the real record of Trump and still call him a BIG successful billionaire businessman. They know the name Trump, that is all.

Trump is what I would call a “knowledge skimmer” in that he skims history and other information for BIG and then locks onto it. He gets the main word/name right but doesn’t seem to know anything more than. But goddman if it doesn’t work for him.

331
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:27:06am

re: #325 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Don’t trust anything from Scott Dworkin. He makes shit up.

332
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:28:03am

re: #328 makeitstop

Quiet here today. Is everyone sleeping in or something?

I have to go drive mr. klys to the office and then do my run.

And then hopefully pick my car up from the shop and then I get to go to a sportspuck game tonight.

NnrFzlDw0ZflNjG/WiB4gzZ4YvKPwqQU0vUc3uVAVD+S6TwkKRYu687QsGjBKVwZGbxvHvzPMCfX8h3nHgOTYldHW8MfTJxcD5RuWPLTolkQY6aVuttaXaOf5k9CwU/yX4z6iTFJ+734owWOkxCueeG3iSsIBJJDeR4StFeYJiFMTHHfRLMqklxjczhKelpr8CD+vbrVIWsmNRpdLbwiMNpgT69AaSgwcUvI+JhA5YncNLqmQxi1ZgsiAnTDr6YU0VWWJoiyUqQ9VNmqL0ifKOVRAXXhoZUTBrnkOXSWtfgrazABcXQYPr+PhQfSJ655WYnJGxd1VkMN1rstL0Hd+s7j7+Z9pBd2G9oNRSP+PDUSX2NF2PSEiQqr/E0qJYez02tD/le456QMwZS7NcB7kNNC1ytI644uMbR+WuiWuG9wvrm1O1m8R7KSXfO1W0K1YWb/u5AeO0Y=

333
mmmirele  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:28:50am

I am sitting in a meeting where we are walking through a PowerPoint for a presentation next week and I am about to fcking lose it. The nitpickiness on the design is driving me bonkers. I put my phone on mute and hope to God I am not called upon.

334
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:29:56am

re: #83 Ziggy_TARDIS

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

335
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:31:17am

re: #86 Backwoods_Sleuth

I can’t stop laughing

336
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:32:37am

re: #333 mmmirele

“Smaller bullet points, no, larger bullet points, no, red bullet points!”

337
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:35:13am

re: #331 The Vicious Babushka

Don’t trust anything from Scott Dworkin. He makes shit up.

According to fortune.com, Trump sold his shares in UTX, but I don’t have a timeframe, and can’t get the latest FEC reports to come up to confirm one way or the other.

338
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:37:16am

re: #337 lawhawk

He probably sold them to John Miller…

339
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:37:48am

re: #328 makeitstop

Quiet here today. Is everyone sleeping in or something?

I’m fighting a numbness for all this. I think it is going to take a bit to get into current politics because right now for me not much is making any sense.

What can you say when someone is saying facts are not facts? Not much room left after that.

340
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:40:40am
341
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:40:55am

re: #332 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I have to go drive mr. klys to the office and then do my run.

And then hopefully pick my car up from the shop and then I get to go to a sportspuck game tonight.

[Embedded content]

Speaking of sportspuck…how about the Columbus Blue Jackets. Best start to a season in their history and a complete turnaround from last years terrible start. Sure hope they can keep it going. The great thing is they are using a lot of young players and having some success with them.

342
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:43:29am
343
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:44:27am
344
Pawn of the Oppressor  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:44:56am

re: #249 Eclectic Cyborg

Incoming RWNJ butthurt…

[Embedded content]

I stopped buying Levis 20 years ago when they outsourced and their quality went to shit. I was angry that they turned a good American brand into bottom-drawer junk, and jeans that used to last 10 years barely made it to 3. So, I was protestingly patriotic before it was cool.

I understand why Levis would want to exclude people dumb enough to carry a loaded gun while trying on jeans, but here’s the thing… If the gun people would shut the fuck up and behave with safety and decorum, nobody would ever know there was an issue. I carry, and I still shop at Costco and if Levis weren’t garbage, I’d consider buying a pair. I’m not at war with the entire goddamned universe all the time. People who define themselves by their firearms are children.

345
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:52:16am

It’s so obvious, now that he mentions it.

The 2014 online hate-storm presaged the tactics of the Trump-loving far right movement.

Sure, women, minorities and progressive voices within the industry were suddenly living in fear. Sure, those who spoke out in their defence were quickly silenced through exhausting bursts of online abuse. But that wasn’t why people supported it, right? They were disenfranchised, felt ignored, and wanted to see a systematic change.

Is this all sounding rather familiar now? Does it remind you of something? If you’re just discovering the world of angry, anonymous online dudes masquerading as victims - hi, come in. Some of us have been here for a while.

The similarities between Gamergate and the far-right online movement, the “alt-right”, are huge, startling and in no way a coincidence. After all, the culture war that began in games now has a senior representative in The White House. As a founder member and former executive chair of Brietbart News, Steve Bannon had a hand in creating media monster Milo Yiannopoulos, who built his fame and Twitter following by supporting and cheerleading Gamergate. This hashtag was the canary in the coalmine, and we ignored it.

346
Franklin  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:52:39am
347
sagehen  Dec 2, 2016 • 10:57:52am

re: #309 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Here’s the money quote:

I honestly expect to hear more and more of statements like these slowly trickle out as many people slowly realize that they got Punk’d by someone who makes used car salesmen the epitome of ethics and professionalism.

And every one of them will blame the Democrats. “Why didn’t you warn us what he was like?”

348
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:01:23am

re: #346 Franklin

[Embedded content]

That’s an improvement over the original because you can’t see their creepy eyes.

349
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:07:19am

re: #346 Franklin

See no evil, see no evil, see no evil?

350
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:07:48am
352
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:11:15am
353
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:14:14am

re: #345 makeitstop

It’s so obvious, now that he mentions it.

The 2014 online hate-storm presaged the tactics of the Trump-loving far right movement.

Some of us didn’t ignore it (I know a number of us here would respond to people making those claims), but we definitely didn’t see what would become of it. The big thing we fail to see is how to properly respond to these things when we value the first amendment. Going after Breitbart’s advertising is one thing. We’ll have to come up with other responses since we’re about to have an administration that generates them.

354
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:18:17am

re: #268 BeachDem

Sickening update:

White man who gunned down black ex-NFL player in road rage case released without charges

rawstory.com

I’ve read the story three times and I am fucking amazed that he wasn’t booked and charged.

355
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:20:13am

re: #354 Dr. Matt

I’ve read the story three times and I am fucking amazed that he wasn’t booked and charged.

And you just have to know that if the races of the parties to that incident were reversed, you know that the black guy would have been charged and remained in custody.

356
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:20:41am

re: #354 Dr. Matt

I’ve read the story three times and I am fucking amazed that he wasn’t booked and charged.

“stand your ground” means if you are white you can shoot a black man, cause they are inherently scary.//

357
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:21:45am

re: #347 sagehen

And every one of them will blame the Democrats. “Why didn’t you warn us what he was like?”

They’ll say it’s Obama’s fault, because that’s line that’s been spoon fed to them by all their fake news sources.

358
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:21:45am

Doctor Who Made Racist Comments About Michelle Obama to Lose Faculty Appointment

The University of Colorado’s School of Medicine is cutting ties with a faculty member who made a racist remark about First Lady Michelle Obama on Facebook.

Dr. Michelle Herren, who works at Denver Health Medical Center, holds a non-paid faculty appointment at the CU School of Medicine, and a medical staff appointment at Children’s Hospital, where Denver Health physicians supervise residents and other medical practitioners in training, the Denver Post reports .

“We are beginning the process to terminate Dr. Herren’s faculty appointment,” Mark Couch, spokesman for the school, said Thursday. “She has expressed values that are at odds with ours and she has compromised her ability to meet the teaching and patient care mission of the School of Medicine.”

I hope more deplorables continue to “just call it like it is”.

359
Weaselone  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:21:53am

re: #351 lawhawk

The obtuseness of some of the responses is breathtaking.

360
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:22:55am

re: #355 lawhawk

And you just have to know that if the races of the parties to that incident were reversed, you know that the black guy would have been charged and remained in custody.

If the shooter was Black, I doubt the police would have bothered with charging him and would have executed him on the scene.

361
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:22:58am

re: #302 Mattand

Since I’m on a roll:

Trump voter lost her home to new Treasury secretary

People really hated Clinton and Obama that much they believed Trump would make everything better, despite every shred of evidence otherwise. Just. Wow.

I posted that to Facebook, with the comment, “Life is hard. It’s harder when you’re stupid.”

Which I suppose means I’m insufficiently sympathetic, or a Coastal Elite, or some such, but for god’s sake, the man lies like breathing, and is transparently a con man who will say anything to get what he wants. He’s spent his adult life screwing employees, contractors, investors, and the general public for his own gain. And now you’re disappointed to learn he screwed you, too? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river.

362
Kragar  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:25:28am
363
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:28:13am

re: #361 Blind Frog Belly White

I posted that to Facebook, with the comment, “Life is hard. It’s harder when you’re stupid.”

Which I suppose means I’m insufficiently sympathetic, or a Coastal Elite, or some such, but for god’s sake, the man lies like breathing, and is transparently a con man who will say anything to get what he wants. He’s spent his adult life screwing employees, contractors, investors, and the general public for his own gain. And now you’re disappointed to learn he screwed you, too? Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river.

You almost got a pie recipe instead, but I’m not that stupid this morning.

364
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:33:43am
365
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:34:31am

This is the guy who ran against Paul Ryan. A fan of the Rage Furby.

366
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:38:54am

re: #365 Charles Johnson

This is the guy who ran against Paul Ryan. A fan of the Rage Furby.

[Embedded content]

Nehlen’s writing is almost as incomprehensible as Rage Furby’s.

367
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:39:21am

re: #364 jaunte

I’m going to encourage everyone to be a bit less cynical for a moment and ponder if there is a way for Democrats to work with companies that do this. The companies don’t have to, and so could Democrats say good things about the companies for doing this without compromising what we stand for?

368
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:39:59am

re: #194 Sherlock Hound

he was saying that farmers he knew would stop selling goods to coastal liberals

IIRC he was reporting but not endorsing that position.
But stuff like that is why I have a hard time believing that running a few newspaper ads would convince any of his deep-red neighbors. According to him, every single farmer he knew would happily condemn we “coastal elites” to a brutal death by starvation, even if it meant letting their own families go hungry. They don’t just disagree with us - they fantasize about killing us.
I was also getting a little tired of hearing “The DNC MUST run a candidate here and in every other red state!” as if the DNC can manufacture and fly in a candidate from their shiny big candidate factory. The candidates have to exist locally first.
I did not, however, ever disagree with his frustration at his state and county parties refusing to even return calls. That’s just dumb on their part.

369
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:40:26am
370
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:41:36am

I’ll be very surprised if the Furby gets any money from Gawker - he has absolutely no legal basis for it. Can’t show damages, wasn’t libeled, has a history of frivolous lawsuits and threats. Not gonna happen.

371
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:42:44am

re: #367 Belafon

I’m going to encourage everyone to be a bit less cynical for a moment and ponder if there is a way for Democrats to work with companies that do this. The companies don’t have to, and so could Democrats say good things about the companies for doing this without compromising what we stand for?

Yes.

372
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:46:02am
373
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:49:52am

So, if we’re at 4.6% unemployment, and growth around 3%, and wages starting to rise, what happens when Trump cuts taxes, increases spending, and blows up the national debt?

374
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:52:16am

re: #364 jaunte

As Breitbart wages “war” on Kellogg’s, advertisers flee. Vanguard, 3M, and AARP join the list

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

375
goddamnedfrank  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:54:09am

re: #370 Charles Johnson

I’ll be very surprised if the Furby gets any money from Gawker - he has absolutely no legal basis for it. Can’t show damages, wasn’t libeled, has a history of frivolous lawsuits and threats. Not gonna happen.

Isn’t his hearing in California for blowing off his case management conference here coming up soon?

376
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:54:21am

re: #373 Blind Frog Belly White

So, if we’re at 4.6% unemployment, and growth around 3%, and wages starting to rise, what happens when Trump cuts taxes, increases spending, and blows up the national debt?

You forgot the part where he’s going to raise taxes on those in the 70-95% range. But, to answer your question, inflation is going to go up.

377
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:55:12am

re: #373 Blind Frog Belly White

So, if we’re at 4.6% unemployment, and growth around 3%, and wages starting to rise, what happens when Trump cuts taxes, increases spending, and blows up the national debt?

Why, that’s simple, silly. He’ll have MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

378
VegasGolfer  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:57:17am

mediaite.com

“Teena Colebrook explained to the Associated Press that she had voted for Trump hoping he would keep his pledge to remove the elites from Washington. However, she became truly disenchanted when he chose Mnuchin, partly because it showed he’s “now backing his buddies.”

379
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:57:53am

re: #374 Timothy Watson

AARP was advertising on a site frequented by people who think they’re a communist front group?

I think a lot of these companies bought into pool advertising, not noticing that the pool was stocked with piranhas.

380
Romantic Heretic  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:58:23am

re: #355 lawhawk

And you just have to know that if the races of the parties to that incident were reversed, you know that the black guy would have been charged and remained in never made it to custody.

FTFY.

381
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 11:58:32am

re: #378 VegasGolfer

mediaite.com

“Teena Colebrook explained to the Associated Press that she had voted for Trump hoping he would keep his pledge to remove the elites from Washington. However, she became truly disenchanted when he chose Mnuchin, partly because it showed he’s “now backing his buddies.”

That stupid woman keeps popping up. Getting her 15 minutes, I suppose. If I ever get mine, I don’t want it to be for being a gullible chump.

382
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:10:41pm

re: #364 jaunte

[Embedded content]

M51T8mfvikcZlJfZ8hyUjf5KNGkzsplL98vbtp+o7rMkAP0Nl8HkCIrD3JzdDGOVIxJBqvD9pPI=

383
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 12:19:00pm

re: #328 makeitstop

At work and must give some attention to work-related activities. Bah!


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