Trump Hasn’t Even Taken Office Yet, but He’s Already Provoking a Diplomatic Crisis With China

To help his business
World • Views: 38,050

He isn’t even in the White House yet, but Donald Trump is already provoking a serious diplomatic dispute with China by making a direct call to the president of Taiwan — even though the US position is that Taiwan is part of China.

The Financial Times, citing three sources, reports that Trump called Tsai Ying-wen, the president of Taiwan, on Friday. The call is a symbolic breach of the United States’ “One China” policy, which recognizes Beijing as the only government, that has been in place since 1972.

The call will antagonize China and risks “opening up a major diplomatic dispute with China before he has even been inaugurated.”

And the motivation behind this dangerous provocation? The Trump Organization is trying to expand its business opportunities in Taiwan.

The Shanghaiist reported on the Trump Organization’s interest last month:

A representative from the Trump Organization paid a visit to Taoyuan in September, expressing interest in the city’s Aerotropolis, a large-scale urban development project aimed at capitalizing on Taoyuan’s status as a transport hub for East Asia, Taiwan News reports.With the review process for the Aerotropolis still underway, Taoyuan’s mayor referred to the subject of the meeting as mere investment speculation. Other reports indicate that Eric Trump, the president-elect’s second son and executive vice president of the Trump Organization, will be coming to Taoyuan later this year to discuss the potential business opportunity.

UPDATE at 12/2/16 5:31:50 pm by Charles Johnson

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393 comments

1
Thanos  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:53:54pm

From 2 weeks ago:

shanghaiist.com

Never mind, I see you already noted this!

2
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:55:49pm

I checked a couple of comments sections (the hill, marketwatch) and the consensus is that “he’s playing 3-d chess” and “finally someone is sticking it to those godless commies.” Sometimes I wish I didn’t live in this country.

3
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:56:39pm

This is so bad. What did this country do.

4
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:56:40pm

“I promis to divest myself from my business!”

Yeah. Sure.

5
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:56:41pm

Remember when we all thought Trump just RUNNING FOR President was all about making more money? It’s looking like Trump BEING President is really just all about making more money.

6
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:05pm

Good fucking grief.

7
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:07pm

The crazy bastard is gonna get us all killed, so he can get a Taiwanese casino license.

8
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:14pm

re: #4 GlutenFreeJesus

“I promis to divest myself from my business!”

Yeah. Sure.

Yeah, but he never said ‘divest’, did he?

9
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:19pm

I told Mrs. Fish. She shook her head and said,

Sometimes I wish there was some elaborate conspiracy theory, that someone was just using him, either for evil or for good. Because honestly, it just scares me that someone this stupid could have power in this country.

10
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:43pm

re: #4 GlutenFreeJesus

“I promis to divest myself from my business!”

Yeah. Sure.

He also has a vested intern in the Dakota Pipeline but claims his support is only because of policy not his interests. Surrrrrrrrrrre and Mike Pence isn’t a homophobic asshole.

11
Thanos  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:57:55pm

We sell Taiwan jets but maintain this fiction as a bipartisan policy. It’s not something that’s PC, Democrat, or Republican. — it’s a fiction that allows us to maintain relations and detente at the same time. This could start a trade war, or a real war.

12
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:58:21pm

I just don’t know what the hell is going to happen anymore. Are we even going to survive one year of President Trump, much less four?

13
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:58:33pm

re: #10 HappyWarrior

He also has a vested intern in the Dakota Pipeline but claims his support is only because of policy not his interests. Surrrrrrrrrrre and Mike Pence isn’t a homophobic asshole.

Also a stockholder in Carrier’s parent company.

I’m starting to see a pattern here.

14
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 2:58:50pm

re: #7 makeitstop

The crazy bastard is gonna get us all killed, so he can get a Taiwanese casino license.

My exact words to Mrs. Fish were, “Drumpf is picking a fight with China. He’s going to start a war just so he can make more money.”

15
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:01:17pm

Ban Muslims, piss off China—at a minimum we’ll see tuitions rise at many major universities as the sole payers of full tuition are turned away or turn away.

16
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:01:56pm

re: #12 Citizen K

I just don’t know what the hell is going to happen anymore. Are we even going to survive one year day of President Trump, much less four?

FTFY

17
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:05:07pm

All I can do when reading stories like this is remember all those people who, thinking they were just spouting “common sense,” declared that we needed Trump in the White House because he was a businessman and knew how to make the economy work. I wonder how they’re going to feel about that when we’re in the midst of a trade war that means basic goods are outrageously expensive because of embargos and tariffs.

18
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:06:21pm

re: #12 Citizen K

I just don’t know what the hell is going to happen anymore. Are we even going to survive one year of President Trump, much less four?

He suffers a nervous breakdown or causes a catastrophic event that kills millions and forces his removal.

There is no way someone this dangerous is surviving four years in office.

19
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:07:46pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

This is so bad. What did this country do.

I am now wondering what is really going on in the actual power structure of the GOP. The big money and the people they influence in the politicians. Trump seems like he really is going to fuck up enough even they will wonder when it is time to pull the plug. It has to be going on…some of this kind of screwing up cuts right to them.

And I don’t have a lot of faith in GOP power people. But even they have to start shaking sometime.

Time to tune guitars…later!

20
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:10:42pm

re: #18 Myron Falwell (no relation)

He suffers a nervous breakdown or causes a catastrophic event that kills millions and forces his removal.

There is no way someone this dangerous is surviving four years in office.

I’m less convinced by the day he’ll ever be sworn in.

21
worldknot  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:11:21pm

deleted… trying hard not to panic

22
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:13:43pm

As if CNN didn’t have enough horrible trump surrogates on the payroll and/or polluting the airwaves on a regular basis, now Jake Tapper is lobbing softballs at fucking Nigel Farage. Spit.

23
KGxvi  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:14:09pm

We go now live to Trump Tower for a statement from Mr. Trump’s transition team:

I am more convinced then ever that we are going to see Section 4 of the 25th Amendment invoked before next Christmas.

24
Jenner7  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:15:21pm
25
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:15:30pm

There’s a reason that there are foreign policy protocols and rules for how to act. Because acting like an 800 pound gorilla is how you start wars. Nuclear wars at that.

Trump thinks this stuff doesn’t matter, and that he can talk to who he likes how he likes. Except those actions have consequences he doesn’t even understand - or care to understand.

Talking with Taiwan is a delicate dance due to the one-China rule that’s been in place since 1979. There’s good reasons to keep up the dance, even as we’re busy selling Taiwan advanced weapons.

Trump’s going to pull the same nonsense in the Middle East and with Pakistan and India - each of these powder kegs that he has no comprehension of the consequences, but thinks there’s profit to be made. Those who made the analogy to Trump being a Ferengi are looking prescient.

26
Jenner7  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:16:21pm

All of our fears over the last 9 months are coming true.

27
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:17:00pm

re: #20 allegro

I’m less convinced by the day he’ll ever be sworn in.

This sure has me wondering. And that pressure I was talking about in the GOP. I wonder how much of it is coming to bear on the Electoral College.

Next week is going to be very interesting. I’ve never had reason to watch for EC developments before. Might be looking for them now. We might see some testing of our Constitution and big lawyers.

28
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:17:08pm

re: #19 ObserverArt

I am now wondering what is really going on in the actual power structure of the GOP. The big money and the people they influence in the politicians. Trump seems like he really is going to fuck up enough even they will wonder when it is time to pull the plug. It has to be going on…some of this kind of screwing up cuts right to them.

And I don’t have a lot of faith in GOP power people. But even they have to start shaking sometime.

The GOP is totally oblivious to all this. They don’t care how bad he is, just that he isn’t President Obama. And they won’t bother to care until it’s much too late.

They deserve all of the pain and damage he’s going to cause. And their voters should be shunned and punished accordingly for a long, long time.

29
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:17:20pm

re: #26 Jenner7

All of our fears over the last 9 months are coming true.

And all those people who said there was no reason to worry because Trump would surround himself with professionals who would help guide him are looking like utter morons.

30
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:18:55pm

And from the replies, this is the kind of thinking we’re dealing with:

31
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:19:39pm

re: #27 ObserverArt

This sure has me wondering. And that pressure I was talking about in the GOP. I wonder how much of it is coming to bear on the Electoral College.

Next week is going to be very interesting. I’ve never had reason to watch for EC developments before. Might be looking for them now. We might see some testing of our Constitution and big lawyers.

I said here a week or two ago that we know there are some powerful forces working back there in the smokey rooms that I can’t imagine will let this man continue like this. There’s too much $$$ at stake and they aren’t gonna go quietly into Trump’s insane good night.

32
KGxvi  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:19:53pm

re: #19 ObserverArt

I am now wondering what is really going on in the actual power structure of the GOP. The big money and the people they influence in the politicians. Trump seems like he really is going to fuck up enough even they will wonder when it is time to pull the plug. It has to be going on…some of this kind of screwing up cuts right to them.

And I don’t have a lot of faith in GOP power people. But even they have to start shaking sometime.

Time to tune guitars…later!

When the Dow drops 5% a day and they have to halt trading for a week straight? That might do it. Or when trade agreements start being suspended as part of a Trump initiated trade war, of course, that will also likely trigger a stock market drop.

33
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:20:40pm

Oh, and then there’s this…Trump’s Defense Pick Accused of Delaying Aid to Wounded Soldiers

A former Army Special Forces officer is accusing retired Marine General James Mattis, President-elect Donald Trump’s pick to be defense secretary, of “leaving my men to die” after they were hit by friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2001.

Mattis has not commented publicly on the incident, which was chronicled in a 2011 New York Times bestselling book, “The Only Thing Worth Dying For,” by Eric Blehm. The book portrays Mattis as stubbornly unwilling to help the Green Berets.

His actions, which were not formally investigated at the time, are now likely to get far more scrutiny during the retired general’s Senate confirmation process.

Trump’s transition team did not respond to request for comment from NBC News. Nor did Mattis, whose 2013 retirement from the military means he would need a waiver from Congress to serve as the civilian Pentagon chief.

So much for that ‘extreme vetting.’

34
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:21:40pm

re: #20 allegro

I’m less convinced by the day he’ll ever be sworn in.

Mike Pence will be a disaster on ice, but he sure as hell wouldn’t get millions of people killed (his denial of climate change notwithstanding).

35
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:22:40pm

re: #33 makeitstop

Oh, and then there’s this…Trump’s Defense Pick Accused of Delaying Aid to Wounded Soldiers

So much for that ‘extreme vetting.’

That’s only for “those” people.

36
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:24:01pm

re: #28 Myron Falwell (no relation)

The GOP is totally oblivious to all this. They don’t care how bad he is, just that he isn’t President Obama. And they won’t bother to care until it’s much too late.

They deserve all of the pain and damage he’s going to cause. And their voters should be shunned and punished accordingly for a long, long time.

The politicians may well be. No surprise.

I am talking about the people behind them. When shit gets real…like pissing off big countries like China and messing with others in a clumsy manner…it messes with their bottom line. And they do not like to see bottom lines messed with.

When it gets messy, they are going to start to try to gain control of things.

Those politicians oblivious may well be told to wake up fast…we have to stop this madness. It was an experiment…it now looks like it is the failure everyone was worried about…so do what you have to do to stop it. Now! And jump they will.

37
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:25:22pm

re: #30 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

@AriFleischer @washingtonpost This is how the big boys negotiate

Right, starting a potential trade war if not a shooting war in the South China Sea is an awesome idea. I’m sure every nation in the region will thank us when they’re soaking up the rads.

38
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:27:22pm

If there’s one thing I learned while studying Chinese history it’s that they’re totally cool other countries meddling in the affairs of their (real or percieved) vassal states. This should go over just fine with them. No big deal, right guys and gals?….right?

39
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:27:42pm

re: #12 Citizen K

I just don’t know what the hell is going to happen anymore. Are we even going to survive one year of President Trump, much less four?

I’ve been turning the question around: Is Trump going to survive even one year as president? He’s so thin skinned I’m thinking he might stroke out very early. He’s not physically or mentally prepared to do this job well at all.

40
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:28:13pm

Foreign policy by highest bidder, whoever makes Trump the most attractive business offer suddenly becomes his best friend. I can’t in any way foresee this being an issue…

///////

41
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:28:14pm

Stupid question but what has been our policy with in regards to Taiwan since 1972? I know we no longer recognize them as the legitimate Chinese government which we had done from ‘48-‘72. China is a complicated issue. Foreign policy is the big reason why I favored Clinton over Sanders in the primaries and why I especially favored Clinton over Trump in the GE.

42
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:28:43pm

I’m sure Wheat will have some interesting information on this. I really enjoy his insights as an American teaching in China.

43
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:29:01pm

re: #38 Arkansawyer

If there’s one thing I learned while studying Chinese history it’s that they’re totally cool other countries meddling in the affairs of the (real or percieved) vassal states. This should go over just fine with them. No big deal, right guys and gals?….right?

I’m really trying hard to be at least somewhat positive.

Today it’s really, really hard.

44
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:30:52pm
45
VegasGolfer  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:31:21pm
46
KGxvi  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:31:40pm

re: #34 Myron Falwell (no relation)

Mike Pence will be a disaster on ice, but he sure as hell wouldn’t get millions of people killed. (Denying climate change notwithstanding.)

Pence at the very least knows how the game is played. As Krisotl (fuck, I can’t believe I’m citing him) said about Clinton, he’s “wrong within normal parameters”. The moment he gets real push back on something like abortion restrictions, he’ll fold knowing that there are less divisive issues to spend political capital on

47
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:31:42pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Right, starting a potential trade war if not a shooting war in the South China Sea is an awesome idea. I’m sure every nation in the region will thank us when they’re soaking up the rads.

Wonder what the protocol is if the asshole gets us into a war BEFORE he is inaugurated? Would the assholes in Congress support our current (sane) President or continue to be the assholes they’ve been for the past eight years?

48
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:31:45pm

I’m just spitballing here, but maybe that’s one of the reasons Ivanka is moving her sweatshop operations from China to Ethiopia.

49
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:32:13pm

Oh wow, it’s the first call by a U.S. President to the Taiwanese one since 1973. I had a great co-worker who was from Taiwan. He clearly wasn’t fond of the PRC due to his being the descendants of those who fled the mainland following the Reds victory but he explained to me how China is a complicated place. This was something I learned when I took a history class on that nation as well which was taught by another man who had roots in China. So many Americans don’t understand China. If there was one thing I grudgingly liked about Jon Huntsman when he ran in 2012 is that he was a rare Republican that did not talk like an idiot when it came to China. And the way Trump talks about China is a lot like how Romney does. I am certainly no fan of the PRC government but it’s a complicated place.

50
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:33:17pm

re: #43 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m really trying hard to be at least somewhat positive.

Today it’s really, really hard.

Enjoy hockey.

Insanity will be here tomorrow.

And sadly, the next day.

So, it’s have fun where you can have it. Tonight I make my guitar weep. But it saves me…and off to it I go.

51
Arkansawyer  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:33:34pm

re: #43 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m really trying hard to be at least somewhat positive.

Today it’s really, really hard.

You know in movies when someone wakes up from a nightmare only to realize they’re still in a nightmare? I feel like that’s how 2017 will be in regard to 2016.

52
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:33:43pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Stupid question but what has been our policy with in regards to Taiwan since 1972? I know we no longer recognize them as the legitimate Chinese government which we had done from ‘48-‘72. China is a complicated issue. Foreign policy is the big reason why I favored Clinton over Sanders in the primaries and why I especially favored Clinton over Trump in the GE.

Officially, the US recognizes the PRC as the official government of China and recognizes their claim to Taiwan as legitimate, but we mostly pay lip-service to it while maintaining business and military relations with the Taipei gov’t.

53
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:34:37pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

This is so bad. What did this country do.

Commit suicide in slo-mo?

54
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:34:46pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

Officially, the US recognizes the PRC as the official government of China and recognizes their claim to Taiwan as legitimate, but we mostly pay lip-service to it while maintaining business and military relations with the Taipei gov’t.

Okay that makes sense, thanks.

55
Mattand  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:35:05pm

re: #27 ObserverArt

This sure has me wondering. And that pressure I was talking about in the GOP. I wonder how much of it is coming to bear on the Electoral College

What pressure? I’m not saying this to be confrontational, but seriously, what pressure?

There is none. Zero. This is what Republicans want, from Paul Ryan right down to “Oh, I’m not here to gloat” NJDevilHockeyFan. These fucking people do. Not. Care one iota about anything other than driving this country back into some nostalgic past that never really existed, and is basically just a white fantasy trip.

Even if Trump doesn’t serve out his first term, look who is waiting in the wings: a religious homophobe who is the real life version of psycho Presidential candidate Greg Stilton from The Dead Zone.

What’s scary is that Pence may actually be preferred to Trump.

I really don’t get how there’s any pressure on the GOP. It implies putting country before party and having some semblance of a human conscience.

56
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:36:06pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

Trump doesn’t know how to knot his tie properly - or to get the right length tie so it fits in the loop, and is too cheap to get a tailor to fashion a loop for where he likes to wear the tie (it’s much lower than most people wear it).

57
petesh  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:36:20pm

Trump has pissed off India by praising Pakistan. He’s pissed off China by even talking directly with Taiwan. He’s pissed off the UK by not understanding the protocol of arranging visits by foreign leaders. He’s pissed off Mexico by, well, lots of things but let’s just say lying about a meeting with their leader.

Y’know, I’m beginning to think that international diplomacy might not be Trump’s strong suit.

58
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:36:40pm
59
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:37:31pm

re: #57 petesh

Trump has pissed off India by praising Pakistan. He’s pissed off China by even talking directly with Taiwan. He’s pissed off the UK by not understanding the protocol of arranging visits by foreign leaders. He’s pissed off Mexico by, well, lots of things but let’s just say lying about a meeting with their leader.

Y’know, I’m beginning to think that international diplomacy might not be Trump’s strong suit.

As I said yesterday, Mitt really needs to brush up how to say “I’m sorry, Mr. President/Prime Minister/Your majesty, President Trump did not mean it like that” in several different languages.

60
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:37:45pm

re: #57 petesh

Trump has pissed off India by praising Pakistan. He’s pissed off China by even talking directly with Taiwan. He’s pissed off the UK by not understanding the protocol of arranging visits by foreign leaders. He’s pissed off Mexico by, well, lots of things but let’s just say lying about a meeting with their leader.

Y’know, I’m beginning to think that international diplomacy might not be Trump’s strong suit.

It’s pretty simple to understand: Wherever the Trump family has business interests will suddenly be our friend for however long it takes for the paperwork to go through.

61
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:37:46pm

re: #39 stpaulbear

I’ve been turning the question around: Is Trump going to survive even one year as president? He’s so thin skinned I’m thinking he might stroke out very early. He’s not physically or mentally prepared to do this job well at all.

Considering his tweet eruptions a few nights ago and his continual bunker mentality, I’m slowly becoming more and more convinced that he may not survive several weeks, let alone a year. I’m not trying to sound alarmist… the job weathers down competent people.

Trump is old, is badly overweight, has a real-life Dr. Nick Rivera as his “doctor,” and we really don’t know his actual medical records (outside of the blank piece of paper Mehmet Oz waved in front of a camera once).

62
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:38:08pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

He really needs to get his goddamn nose out of the business. This is exactly why businessmen shouldn’t be politicians.

63
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:38:31pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

It’s pretty simple to understand: Wherever the Trump family has business interests will suddenly be our friend for however long it takes for the paperwork to go through. check to clear.

64
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:41:36pm

re: #31 allegro

I said here a week or two ago that we know there are some powerful forces working back there in the smokey rooms that I can’t imagine will let this man continue like this. There’s too much $$$ at stake and they aren’t gonna go quietly into Trump’s insane good night.

The plutocrats that really rule the world have too much to lose with Trump’s loose cannon act.

65
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:41:50pm

re: #55 Mattand

What pressure? I’m not saying this to be confrontational, but seriously, what pressure?

There is none. Zero. This is what Republicans want, from Paul Ryan right down to “Oh, I’m not here to gloat” NJDevilHockeyFan. These fucking people do. Not. Care one iota about anything other than driving this country back into some nostalgic past that never really existed, and is basically just a white fantasy trip.

Even if Trump doesn’t serve out his first term, look who is waiting in the wings: a religious homophobe who is the real life version of psycho Presidential candidate Greg Stilton from The Dead Zone.

What’s scary is that Pence may actually be preferred to Trump.

I really don’t get how there’s any pressure on the GOP. It implies putting country before party and having some semblance of a human conscience.

I never thought I would ever say this but lobbyists could be a salvation. Think about it. Who really stands the most to lose from Trump et al tearing apart our government, trade agreements, the social safety net, etc.? Big $$$. Real big $$$ that those politicians need to keep their jobs.

66
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:41:53pm
67
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:42:00pm

Uncomfirmed reports suggest Trump will replace “Hail to the Chief” with:

The O’Jays - For The Love of Money (Audio)

68
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:43:22pm

The replies that That Weasel Ari Fleischer’s tweet are exactly what you’d expect. They see the US as invincible and unchallengeable. It doesn’t occur to them that one possible result of playing a game of Chicken is that nobody swerves and you both die in a fiery wreck.

69
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:45:15pm

re: #66 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

They act as if nobody else is holding any cards.

ETA - the politics of domination work great, right up until they fail spectacularly in the face of an opponent who won’t be dominated.

70
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:46:27pm
71
petesh  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:46:59pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

It’s pretty simple to understand: Wherever the Trump family has business interests will suddenly be our friend for however long it takes for the paperwork to go through.

He has interests in India, which could well be threatened by flattering Pakistan (some Hindu nationalists are very aggressive). In fact, he could well have interests in other hostile-to-each-other countries. Not to mention the possibility that some terrorist will blow up a Trump-monogrammed hotel somewhere, and then what shall we do? Deploy the military in there service of his business? Anyone care to bet against it?

72
Scottishdragon  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:47:26pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

This is so bad. What did this country do.

We will have an unplanned war within a year. Either India/Pakistan or North Korea and all of the rest of us…because of something Trump does or says. This is a nightmare that will kill people. A lot of people.

73
Skandal  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:48:49pm
74
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:49:02pm

Old-timers may have different perceptions of China/Taiwan than those that have developed in recent years.
In particular, they may remember the Taiwan Straits crisis of 1958. Heavy fighting broke out between Taiwan and China over occupation of the islands in the Taiwan Strait, with very heavy artillery and air attacks on the small islands just off the Chinese coast. In those days though it wasn’t Taiwan and China, it was “Nationalist China” vs. “Communist China.” The former was Chiang Kai Shek’s Kuomintang government that had fled to Taiwan (then usually known by the old Portguese name of Formosa) after losing the civil war to Mao’s communists in 1949.
With heavy US support, the Nationalists prevailed in 1958 and the islands remain in Taiwanese hands to this day.
The Nationalists were still recognized by the US as the rightful government of ALL of China at that time. This continued into the 1970s and little Taiwan in fact continued to hold China’s permanent seat on the UN Security Council during that time. The Taiwanese air force is still called the Republic of China Air Force (ROCAF) and the local navy is the Republic of China Navy.
Contrary to some recent RWNJ propaganda, our support for the “one China” policy is therefore not some kind of about-face designed to appease the communists. It has been the steadfast position of every US administration since Taiwan was liberated from the Japanese at the end of World War II.

75
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:50:15pm

re: #68 Blind Frog Belly White

The replies that That Weasel Ari Fleischer’s tweet are exactly what you’d expect. They see the US as invincible and unchallengeable. It doesn’t occur to them that one possible result of playing a game of Chicken is that nobody swerves and you both die in a fiery wreck.

If there’s been on historical constant, it’s that states used to easy victories keep getting involved in wars until they find somebody who can’t be pushed over. For as draining as occupation duty has been in Afghanistan and Iraq, both “wars” were over in a matter of weeks and resulted in absolute victories because we weren’t fighting on equal terms. Eventually we were going to pick a fight with somebody who could bloody our nose, and it looks like it will probably be in the next 4 years.

76
baileylamb  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:50:36pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

We got drunk, got out the fireworks and decided it would be cool to light the fireworks on our head (indoors) while trying to sing the national anthem.

My optimist husband is saying that maybe just maybe th is won’t be so bad. ..I mean what’s the worst that could happen.

77
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:50:38pm

I love Jim Wright:

78
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:51:08pm
79
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:53:22pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

Look at the tape on the back of his tie.

If only ties can with a device to hold the extra portion in place. Man, that would be an novel device wouldn’t it?

80
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:54:23pm

re: #77 Backwoods_Sleuth

I love Jim Wright:

[Embedded content]

Hahahaha what a dork.

81
GrFace  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:54:44pm

I’ve never liked the short deal that the ROC got when the PRC became the “it and only it” China. But yeah, he needs to think for once. Personally, I’m also waiting for him to say something stupid about the Falklands to score points with Argentina based on his other pending deals.

82
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:55:13pm

re: #79 Timothy Watson

If only ties can with a device to hold the extra portion in place. Man, that would be an novel device wouldn’t it?

You could even embroider stuff on them.

83
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:55:57pm

re: #81 GrFace

I’ve never liked the short deal that the ROC got when the PRC became the “it and only it” China. But yeah, he needs to think for once. Personally, I’m also waiting for him to say something stupid about the Falklands to score points with Argentina based on his other pending deals.

No doubt. I think a lot of people thought they did when we normalized relations with China. Trump’s not even doing it for altruistic reasons anyhow. It could almost be forgiven fi he had.

84
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:56:31pm
85
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:57:09pm

re: #81 GrFace

I’ve never liked the short deal that the ROC got when the PRC became the “it and only it” China. But yeah, he needs to think for once. Personally, I’m also waiting for him to say something stupid about the Falklands to score points with Argentina based on his other pending deals.

He’s got Donald Jr traveling to Turkey and meeting with pro-Syria people in France.
What could go wrong???

86
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:58:10pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s got Donald Jr traveling to Turkey and meeting with pro-Syria people in France.
What could go wrong???

I’m waiting for him to confuse Hezbollah with Hamas if he hasn’t already.

87
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:58:14pm

re: #84 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

He ties them that way so your attention is not drawn to what a tub of guts he is by the tie ending way above the beltline.

88
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:58:33pm

Of course, his base loves this shit. Foreign policy and international relations is for the elites. //

89
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:58:49pm
90
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:59:06pm

re: #73 Skandal

There’s a doctor shortage in the states, right? That’s what I keep hearing, that there aren’t enough general practitioners, etc.

So. New plan. If you voted for Trump, you can go see a Trump doctor: the random person we picked up off the street and put into scrubs.

People who proved they like qualifications can go see actual doctors who went to med school and trained for this sort of thing.

(Look right now it’s a really nice dream.)

91
Mike Lamb  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:59:14pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s got Donald Jr traveling to Turkey and meeting with pro-Syria people in France.
What could go wrong???

But’s a blind trust.

92
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 3:59:52pm

re: #89 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Where do I know that ass, said Koko, oh wait it’s my good friend Robin Williams!

93
GrFace  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:00:15pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

I’m waiting for him to confuse Hezbollah with Hamas if he hasn’t already.

He probably doesn’t know the difference between Greeks and Turks.

94
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:00:27pm

re: #91 Mike Lamb

But’s a blind trust.

That’s every bit as comforting as when people say 105 degrees in California isn’t bad because ‘It’s a dry heat!’

95
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:01:44pm

re: #70 gocart mozart

I love Elliott, but what can President Obama do WRT the Electoral College?

96
Skandal  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:02:01pm
97
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:02:26pm

Shoot me. Again. Rear the tweetstorm. (Sigh)

98
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:02:37pm

re: #93 GrFace

He probably doesn’t know the difference between Greeks and Turks.

Reminds me of a story heh, there was a Greek owned sub shop I went to once with my Dad and my Dad made the mistake not knowing the history of conflict between the two asked the guy if he were Turkish. The man wasn’t really too angry but it was still a little amusing. I also remember when I jokingly asked my cousin’s husband’s Welsh friend if it were true that England owned Wales. He knew it was a gag of course.

99
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:02:56pm

re: #95 Myron Falwell (no relation)

I love Elliott, but what can President Obama do WRT the Electoral College?

Use The Bully Pulpit!

You know, like he could have done to get Republicans to pass all his policies?

100
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:03:46pm

re: #67 Eclectic Cyborg

Uncomfirmed reports suggest Trump will replace “Hail to the Chief” with:

[Embedded content]

Well, you can’t always get what you want.

101
compound_Idaho  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:05:33pm

re: #74 Shiplord Kirel

In reality, there is no “one China policy”. Point of fact, we sell F-16’s Taiwan. The rest is just diplomatic BS. Both sided already know. I doubt a phone call changes much. Sternly worded statement to follow.

102
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:06:42pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

I think I’ll take the assessment of people with actual foreign policy experience over your “people are just getting upset over nothing” take.

103
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:07:20pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

Yeah. Fuck a bunch of detente. Fuck yeah. USA USA USA!

Who gives a fuck? Amirite?

104
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:08:31pm

There was interesting example of “one China” during the recent mini-crisis with Japan over a useless rock of an island north of Taiwan. Chinese (Communist) and Taiwanese (Nationalist) forces set aside their historic rivalry to jointly oppose the Japanese claim.

105
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:09:03pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

I’m waiting for him to confuse Hezbollah with Hamas if he hasn’t already.

Sunni? Shi’a? What’s the difference?

////

106
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:10:09pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

In reality, there is no “one China policy”. Point of fact, we sell F-16’s Taiwan. The rest is just diplomatic BS. Both sided already know. I doubt a phone call changes much. Sternly worded statement to follow.

It’s cute that you think the worst that China can do to us is furrow their brow and write a nasty letter.

107
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:11:27pm

Alex, I’d like Asian Culture for $600.

A: Explain Face.

Q: What is not a blowjob?

108
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:13:25pm
109
lockjawcanbefun  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:13:57pm

re: #77 Backwoods_Sleuth

110
petesh  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:15:27pm

re: #102 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I think I’ll take the assessment of people with actual foreign policy experience over your “people are just getting upset over nothing” take.

Trump has exploded U.S. political norms and is basically getting away with it, on the grounds that “he won” — there is some pushback about conflicts of interest but without this kind of crap he would probably (wrongly) skate on it. But he will not get away with exploding global diplomatic norms.

It’s not just that the U.S. essentially wrote them, 70 years ago, it’s that when we did, we had approximately 50% of the global economy — and what was set up was, by and large, not totally unreasonable. Now we don’t (I’d have to check but we’re closer to 20%), and we cannot push around the EU, or China, or even Russia; and we need at least EU support even to intervene in the Middle East. We’re still big, our military is still yuuuge (far bigger than we need), but internationally we need to operate diplomatically.

Trump actually knows how to do that in business — he cons people all the time — but he seems to think that flat-out bullying alone will work internationally, and it won’t.

111
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:16:35pm
112
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:18:02pm

re: #90 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There’s a doctor shortage in the states, right? That’s what I keep hearing, that there aren’t enough general practitioners, etc.

So. New plan. If you voted for Trump, you can go see a Trump doctor: the random person we picked up off the street and put into scrubs.

People who proved they like qualifications can go see actual doctors who went to med school and trained for this sort of thing.

(Look right now it’s a really nice dream.)

That kind of reminded me that we haven’t heard any words of wisdom from (not) Joe the (non) Plumber lately. (Kind of pictured him as one of your Trump doctors.)

113
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:18:27pm

re: #109 lockjawcanbefun

aKymqhRwxqbYt1JOdopBCsCSq5Eitn3PhPsTnm46gRQ4jN0HPa2nunQi6V6DgvYyeNlepACcU4f0SyDUKoe7wBbGH0bWwP8y

114
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:18:49pm

re: #112 BeachDem

That kind of reminded me that we haven’t heard any words of wisdom from (not) Joe the (non) Plumber lately. (Kind of pictured him as one of your Trump doctors.)

Thanks, you’ve just guaranteed he’ll be in the running for Secretary of State next week.

/half

115
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:19:17pm

re: #113 MsJ

Ydm3l/zDlrTHliQv17r2I7k94aDZrV/6UJFCLKg7PMZkpxsA0N0SnSaKeyfFjWVu9o6NjAXXx4k=

116
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:19:20pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

In reality, there is no “one China policy”. Point of fact, we sell F-16’s Taiwan. The rest is just diplomatic BS. Both sided already know. I doubt a phone call changes much. Sternly worded statement to follow.

Ooo! Double qualifiers! Must be REALLY confident of your conclusion, there!

If I were China, I’d note that the incoming President is hoping to make money in Taiwan, and I’d note that this wasn’t a case of ‘Oops! the call came in and nobody knew to fob it off on a staffer!’, but rather that the call was ARRANGED by the staff, and I’d further note that the incoming US President is supposedly narrowing his SecState choices down to a list of people with widely varying views on the role of the US in the world, suggesting that the PEOTUS himself may not have a clearly-defined view, but has openly suggested that US allies might not be able to rely on US promises for their defense. I might think seriously about a number of moves to make to probe Trump’s willingness to defend people and places, to see what he really cares about.

117
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:19:26pm

re: #93 GrFace

He probably doesn’t know the difference between Greeks and Turks.

That’s an easy one—Greeks are the ones who make yogurt and Turks are what you eat when KFC isn’t available.

118
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:19:51pm

Maybe Obama can patiently explain to world leaders that Trump is a bit feeble minded an has no idea what he is doing. Just humor him and we will all get through this relatively unscathed.

119
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:21:12pm
120
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:21:59pm

re: #109 lockjawcanbefun

[Embedded content]

Report the guy. His timeline is full of neo-nazi crap and he’s currently posting death threats toward someone.

121
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:22:14pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

Use The Bully Pulpit!

You know, like he could have done to get Republicans to pass all his policies?

I had no idea that speeches could be given during the conducting of the Electoral College. I hope he does that if permitted (Elliott seems to be doing his homework, so it probably is).

That being said, President Obama has to end the diplomatic outreach and lay the hammer down. He has to. For the sake of humanity.

122
LastYearsMan  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:24:07pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

This is so bad. What did this country do.

Assuming you meant America and not Taiwan, I consider this a chickens coming home to roost moment. Yet another.

123
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:24:44pm
124
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:24:47pm

re: #119 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

See this is the problem wit the “macho” mentality that these so called Alpha dickbags have. It was pretty damn easy to infer why the guy may have avoided movies about grief and loss. Not necessarily a girlfriend but obviously he lost a loved one. That’s what the people who bitch about how “everyone is too sensitive” don’t get. And it’s exactly why I don’t like gun nuts telling me I’m too sensitive about guns when most of them unlike myself don’t have a loved one that ended his life with a weapon.

125
compound_Idaho  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:25:25pm

re: #90 klys (maker of Silmarils)

There’s a doctor shortage in the states, right? That’s what I keep hearing, that there aren’t enough general practitioners, etc.

So. New plan. If you voted for Trump, you can go see a Trump doctor: the random person we picked up off the street and put into scrubs.

People who proved they like qualifications can go see actual doctors who went to med school and trained for this sort of thing.

(Look right now it’s a really nice dream.)

I will not be able see an actual doctor next year. Next year I will no longer be able to use the local hospital system on my Blue Cross ACA policy. I cannot even drive to SLC and use U of U hospital system either. “Houston, we have a problem.”

That is not exactly true. The local hospital is now out of network. So $50,000 deductible, $75,000 max out of pocket.

126
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:25:28pm

re: #111 gocart mozart

To the middle tweet, about if there’s anything Drumpf can do to make them say that he’s gone a little too far: Note, for the record, that the man is literally on the record having confessed to multiple counts of sexual assault. My answer would be, no, even if he starts a thermonuclear war and fiddles while D.C. burns, they would still support him, because Party > Country.

127
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:25:33pm

re: #122 LastYearsMan

Assuming you meant America and not Taiwan, I consider this a chickens coming home to roost moment. Yet another.

Lucky for you we’re going to take you all along with us.

Only the lucky part is sarcastic, there.

128
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:25:57pm

I am glad the dude apologized but note, don’t be a dick to strangers on their space when you have no idea what they’ve been through.

129
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:26:04pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

In reality, there is no “one China policy”. Point of fact, we sell F-16’s Taiwan. The rest is just diplomatic BS. Both sided already know. I doubt a phone call changes much. Sternly worded statement to follow.

I am well aware of our defense relationship with the government on Taiwan, having been personally involved with it at various times. Nevertheless, it is a fact that we have never asserted or recognized that these are two different countries nor has anyone else other than the independence faction on Taiwan. That faction partcipates in government but is not by any means dominant. Our position is that Taiwan cannot be brought under communist rule by force.

130
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:26:07pm

re: #114 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Thanks, you’ve just guaranteed he’ll be in the running for Secretary of State next week.

/half

Well, he did go to Israel to report on something for Pajamas media or some such crap. I will NOT look it up, because I am already sinking into a pit of despair right now and don’t want to clarify the details.

131
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:26:35pm

re: #125 compound_Idaho

I will not be able see an actual doctor next year. Next year I will no longer be able to use the local hospital system on my Blue Cross ACA policy. I cannot even drive to SLC and use U of U hospital system either. “Houston, we have a problem.”

That is not exactly true. The local hospital is now out of network. So $50,000 deductible, $75,000 max out of pocket.

Sounds like you’ve got a problem with the private insurance system we have in this country. Kind of sucks, doesn’t it?

132
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:29:30pm

re: #116 Blind Frog Belly White

Ooo! Double qualifiers! Must be REALLY confident of your conclusion, there!

If I were China, I’d note that the incoming President is hoping to make money in Taiwan, and I’d note that this wasn’t a case of ‘Oops! the call came in and nobody knew to fob it off on a staffer!’, but rather that the call was ARRANGED by the staff, and I’d further note that the incoming US President is supposedly narrowing his SecState choices down to a list of people with widely varying views on the role of the US in the world, suggesting that the PEOTUS himself may not have a clearly-defined view, but has openly suggested that US allies might not be able to rely on US promises for their defense. I might think seriously about a number of moves to make to probe Trump’s willingness to defend people and places, to see what he really cares about.

China may simply decide that if the Trump administration is no longer going to pay even lip-service to the “One China Policy,” then they’ll just force the matter and see if Trump is prepared to engage in a shooting war with China over Taiwanese independence.

133
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:30:11pm
134
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:31:48pm

re: #132 Targetpractice

China may simply decide that if the Trump administration is no longer going to pay even lip-service to the “One China Policy,” then they’ll just force the matter and see if Trump is prepared to engage in a shooting war with China over Taiwanese independence.

That’s what I was thinking, starting with a few smaller steps to see if he’d respond.

135
A Cranky One  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:32:57pm

re: #101 compound_Idaho

In reality, there is no “one China policy”. Point of fact, we sell F-16’s Taiwan. The rest is just diplomatic BS. Both sided already know. I doubt a phone call changes much. Sternly worded statement to follow.

In reality, foreign policy is extremely complex and while it may have “useful fictions” (or as you call it, diplomatic BS), those fictions are often critically important to the powers in charge.

The fact that Trump doesn’t understand the nuances isn’t in itself disturbing. What’s disturbing and in fact outright frightening is that Trump doesn’t appear to be interested in consulting others who do understand the nuances and our country’s long-standing, bi-partisan policies. His willingness to blindly stumble around, stepping on land mines which could result in wars, when folks have maps showing where the land mines are, is terrifying.

This is why foreign policy experience and knowledge is critical for the SOS. But has Trump considered that important in his selection process? Obviously not. Of course, this is the same guy who claims to know more about military strategy than the generals, who feels no need to get the daily classified intelligence briefings and who prefers unsourced conspiracy theories to actual facts. People are likely to die because of Trump’s inability to understand the real world and his apparent lack of interest in learning all the things the POTUS should understand.

When you are POTUS, there is no such thing as a simple phone call with foreign leaders. Which is one of many reasons why the idea that we should elect business-people as political leaders is such a crock.

136
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:32:59pm

I haven’t had a chance to keep up much lately, so I don’t know whether this has been addressed, but when terrorists start attacking Trump business sites, how will police and servicemen around the world feel about risking their lives to protect Donald Trump’s businesses.

137
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:35:42pm

re: #136 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I haven’t had a chance to keep up much lately, so I don’t know whether this has been addressed, but when terrorists start attacking Trump business sites, how will police and servicemen around the world feel about risking their lives to protect Donald Trump’s businesses.

Tell them, tell them I died for Trump Taco Bowls.

138
We're Way Beyond Snark  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:35:46pm

...

139
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:37:21pm

Quelle surprise—holdout juror in Slager trial is a white guy who doesn’t know the difference between conscience and conscious.

“I cannot in good conscious consider a guilty verdict,” the juror, who is a white man, wrote in a note provided to the judge by the jury foreman. “I cannot and will not change my mind.

Hmm—not sure what this means: the other jurors wrote in two separate letters that the lone juror who is supporting a non-guilty verdict “needs to leave” and is “having issues.”

huffingtonpost.com

140
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:37:51pm

re: #131 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Sounds like you’ve got a problem with the private insurance system we have in this country. Kind of sucks, doesn’t it?

Let’s repeal Obamacare (with no replacement), bail out those poor insurance companies and stick it to those Dems.

My heart fucking bleeds. /

141
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:37:55pm

re: #111 gocart mozart

I still remember that time I got down dinged by DF for saying that the US Republican party easily made the top 10 list for threats to global peace.

Edited to add: IIRC, the brave Sir Robin act was done then, because there was no rational way to argue against that point.

142
compound_Idaho  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:37:59pm

re: #131 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Prior to ACA I could manage. Now it’s very tough. At least we can agree that it sucks. I pay more for health insurance than I do for my mortgage, but at least the bank lets me live in my house.

143
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:39:33pm

Today in penis news.

144
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:39:43pm

re: #136 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

I haven’t had a chance to keep up much lately, so I don’t know whether this has been addressed, but when terrorists start attacking Trump business sites, how will police and servicemen around the world feel about risking their lives to protect Donald Trump’s businesses.

Trump refuses to attend intelligence briefings. You’d think he would care about his chintzy hotels and whatnot… especially when they all have gigantic bull’s-eyes placed on them by ISIS.

145
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:39:50pm

146
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:40:05pm

re: #139 BeachDem

Quelle surprise—holdout juror in Slager trial is a white guy who doesn’t know the difference between conscience and conscious.

“I cannot in good conscious consider a guilty verdict,” the juror, who is a white man, wrote in a note provided to the judge by the jury foreman. “I cannot and will not change my mind.

Hmm—not sure what this means: the other jurors wrote in two separate letters that the lone juror who is supporting a non-guilty verdict “needs to leave” and is “having issues.”

huffingtonpost.com

As I noted downstairs, this is what alternate jurors exist for. This asshole should be bounced and an alternate brought in to continue the deliberations.

147
JasonA  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:40:21pm

If a Democrat had done half of what Trump’s done the past few weeks there would be an electoral college revolt.

148
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:41:06pm
149
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:41:20pm

re: #142 compound_Idaho

Prior to ACA I could manage. Now it’s very tough. At least we can agree that it sucks. I pay more for health insurance than I do for my mortgage, but at least the bank lets me live in my house.

Your assumption that you would be able to manage better without the ACA is amusing, since that’s actually slowed the rate of increase in healthcare costs, but whatever helps you feel better. Who cares about those 20 million people who are going to lose their insurance?

(Here’s a hint: I do.)

150
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:41:47pm

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

Inorite?

151
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:42:08pm

re: #150 MsJ

Inorite?

Some people are uber-predictable.

152
JasonA  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:43:01pm

re: #142 compound_Idaho

Prior to ACA I could manage. Now it’s very tough. At least we can agree that it sucks. I pay more for health insurance than I do for my mortgage, but at least the bank lets me live in my house.

Well let us know what happens once it’s gone.

153
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:43:10pm

re: #151 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Some people are uber-predictable.

And total assholes. I’d like to empathize, but I just can’t.

154
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:43:16pm

Flickr

Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, aka Jeff Sessions is the junior United States Senator from Alabama. He is Donald Trump’s nominee for Attorney General.

This caricature of Jeff Sessions was adapted from a Creative Commons licensed photo from Gage Skidmore’s Flickr’s photostream.

155
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:43:24pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

As I noted downstairs, this is what alternate jurors exist for. This asshole should be bounced and an alternate brought in to continue the deliberations.

For some reason, I thought I read that they’d already dismissed the alternate jurors. Need to go read some more at the Post and Courier site.

156
We're Way Beyond Snark  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:43:29pm

/W5zVw9AFy736YiyfrHaIQ5cVJbVZm87r5T26z3OrHnhRl5fIzv3Ku++1P0JSB/7op8WgM32xwcDucpagcUwJdF9tesTF/nR9W0S+V53yNCENgo+1vDlx7wrkVTvdHuUHk7tOpK5oX1ZnOFHmdn5QJBo2/f/m8l1A5LsA1GC3kM8sMGBfOWv7KZ9STzFNPKq6UWMfz3uF4NO+iI02TlUaLu8p1MZU/lERSZJJO5IireBwakPugIqVrUFn8JwqNl2Ctq4W4cHyzPl2ryWTLbCViLZqw2X0+pxlM9WkM1h+Xh/EYq/ajwSD3iA4Pq7OXXTgupvTh7lpRVlwzVUWSRciHencLoY+js6Afbf0Yh6FsvphPEhjFSaMqZh5V470xm7C/KuIr5n8iQf0tupZaM9cmW7YYLROWrz

157
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:46:00pm

re: #135 A Cranky One

In reality, foreign policy is extremely complex and while it may have “useful fictions” (or as you call it, diplomatic BS), those fictions are often critically important to the powers in charge.

The fact that Trump doesn’t understand the nuances isn’t in itself disturbing. What’s disturbing and in fact outright frightening is that Trump doesn’t appear to be interested in consulting others who do understand the nuances and our country’s long-standing, bi-partisan policies. His willingness to blindly stumble around, stepping on land mines which could result in wars, when folks have maps showing where the land mines are, is terrifying.

This is why foreign policy experience and knowledge is critical for the SOS. But has Trump considered that important in his selection process? Obviously not. Of course, this is the same guy who claims to know more about military strategy than the generals, who feels no need to get the daily classified intelligence briefings and who prefers unsourced conspiracy theories to actual facts. People are likely to die because of Trump’s inability to understand the real world and his apparent lack of interest in learning all the things the POTUS should understand.

When you are POTUS, there is no such thing as a simple phone call with foreign leaders. Which is one of many reasons why the idea that we should elect business-people as political leaders is such a crock.

The “One China Policy” serves as a useful fiction because our cordial relations with China are a side-benefit to the major benefit, which is that China hasn’t made any serious effort to overthrow the Taipei gov’t since we broke direct relations with them. Right now, China maintains peaceful relations with Taiwan under the desire to one day reunify them with the mainland proper. If Trump does anything to convince Beijing that Taiwan may consider a serious bid for independence, then they may decide that peaceful reunification is impossible.

158
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:46:56pm

re: #141 EPR-radar

I think it* has been the #1 threat to America for the past 10 years but now it’s # 1 threat to the world. It is an existential threat to both.*

*the Republican Party

159
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:47:38pm

re: #157 Targetpractice

The “One China Policy” serves as a useful fiction because our cordial relations with China are a side-benefit to the major benefit, which is that China hasn’t made any serious effort to overthrow the Taipei gov’t since we broke direct relations with them. Right now, China maintains peaceful relations with Taiwan under the desire to one day reunify them with the mainland proper. If Trump does anything to convince Beijing that Taiwan may consider a serious bid for independence, then they may decide that peaceful reunification is impossible.

Very true, and completely irrelevant for Trump because there’s no money for Trump in any of that.

160
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:47:48pm

re: #156 We’re Way Beyond Snark

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

161
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:47:49pm

re: #153 MsJ

And total assholes. I’d like to empathize, but I just can’t.

especially when returning following a lengthy disappearance after the last bogus insurance rant, the very first thing it does is downding a lizard’s comment sharing a tweet about the electoral college.

162
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:49:00pm

Anyway, sportspuck time! Sportspuck! Sportspuck!

Talk to you lovely Lizards later. :)

163
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:49:33pm

I’m not sure if this WaPo story was mentioned in earlier threads, but I read it at work today and wound up with a huge lump in my throat. I will never understand gun culture. To me, this was horrifying.

After a toddler accidentally shot and killed his older sister, a family’s wounds run deep

164
Scout  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:49:50pm

Remember the old saying that America gets the government it deserves?

I think that’s pretty much true, and we’re seeing it with the incoming shit train.

The only reason we had Barack Obama as president for the last eight years was luck — blind, stupid, boneheaded luck.

165
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:49:55pm

re: #158 gocart mozart

I think it* has been the #1 threat to America for the past 10 years but now it’s # 1 threat to the world. It is an existential threat to both.*

*the Republican Party

Yes. Trump has accelerated the degeneration of the Republican party by decades, and all possible threats are now very real.

US Republicans are barely better than the Nazis of Weimar Germany.

166
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:50:12pm

Still shaking my head over the absurdity of claiming that a “$50,000 deductible, $75,000 max out of pocket” insurance policy as the only one available is even remotely believable.

167
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:50:52pm
168
Barefoot Grin  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:51:33pm

I feel like there’s a time warp here. I’ll probably say that again.

169
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:53:47pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

As I noted downstairs, this is what alternate jurors exist for. This asshole should be bounced and an alternate brought in to continue the deliberations.

re: #155 BeachDem

For some reason, I thought I read that they’d already dismissed the alternate jurors. Need to go read some more at the Post and Courier site.

Yep—from the Post and Courier:

…One of the half-dozen alternate jurors, who were dismissed once the deliberations began, also had waited there. As the judge remarked a day earlier, when he sent the alternates home…

Not sure why they would have dismissed them before the verdict—anything could have happened during deliberations.

170
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:54:12pm

re: #164 Scout

Remember the old saying that America gets the government it deserves?

I think that’s pretty much true, and we’re seeing it with the incoming shit train.

The only reason we had Barack Obama as president for the last eight years was luck — blind, stupid, boneheaded luck.

Not luck, really. Eight years of Republican misrule under the W Bush administration was so fucking bad that the black guy won in 2008.

171
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:54:15pm

Guess what folks? The President of Taiwan called Trump! Trump didn’t call her!This is all about nothing!

(That’s the spin now.)

172
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:54:22pm

re: #167 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I’m sure there are some alternate health care providers who can help with this problem and the incoming administration can get FDA recognition for them.

173
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:55:26pm

Nov. 8, 2016 - America elects a Bond Villain as President.

174
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:55:37pm

re: #163 stpaulbear

I’m not sure if this WaPo story was mentioned in earlier threads, but I read it at work today and wound up with a huge lump in my throat. I will never understand gun culture. To me, this was horrifying.

After a toddler accidentally shot and killed his older sister, a family’s wounds run deep

This paragraph:

In the car now, she turns the volume up so loud that conversation with her boyfriend becomes impossible. She grips the wheel tightly, looks straight ahead and mouths the words of a song as she steers a car that has, among other things, a loaded gun in the glove box. It’s a 9mm — the same caliber that killed Kimi — but while her anger bothers her, guns don’t. She doesn’t feel nervous around that gun or any other gun. She’s more scared of not having one. She still has a child to raise, and what if there’s an intruder, and that intruder has a gun, and she doesn’t? How would she recover from that? How could she live knowing she could have protected Jaxon but had decided she was too afraid to have a gun?

And that, right there, is why her daughter is dead.

Guns are cool, shooting guns is fun. But they should never, ever NOT make you nervous.

175
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:56:24pm

This guy.

176
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:57:09pm

Of course, another useful fiction is that we’re supportive of Taiwan because we support their desire for independence and want to see them free of Communist China. The reality is that there is no uniform opinion in Taiwan, no more than there was in West Germany in the 80s. For every person on the street who wants to be a sovereign nation free of Beijing, there’s another who has no problem with the mainland and would actually like to see both countries reunified. We support Taiwan militarily and economically because they are a check on Chinese power, that the resources China has wrapped up there are not being used elsewhere. The fact that we’re making a shitload of money selling them our weapons and goods doesn’t hurt either.

177
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:57:18pm

re: #174 Blind Frog Belly White

I love firearms. My folks have lots of open space for shooting handguns and long guns for sport. And yet, every time Dad pulls out the gun cases, I feel my nerves go on edge. That’s how it should be; I never want to be careless with a machine that can simply and easily wipe out someone I care about.

178
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:57:21pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

The Buck Stops Somewhere Else! It’s Not My Fault!

179
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:58:13pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

Which means he now has to hope like hell that Taipei doesn’t release the transcript of the call like Islamabad did.

180
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:59:07pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

Oh, I see, he was just being polite! Bygones!

181
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:59:28pm
182
We're Way Beyond Snark  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:59:30pm

re: #160 klys (maker of Silmarils)

gY9URZDl0DmClkE0QLxupo0CKFKfgDi7tQUkAntqC9HE1bLX3IXM8awevRnIkcEFPK96IjeAJl/Yf6ASdS1gq8b8s9GOBWZO9mVcPZaithmVRTJ66QGbbH31hj2ZF7lGKBLh+eePlAuQZN3Tlk63i3h7+LC4DhpPee8YA4ILyME=

183
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 4:59:43pm

re: #179 Targetpractice

Which means he now has to hope like hell that Taipei doesn’t release the transcript of the call like Islamabad did.

I hope to God he doesn’t pick a fight with India. I’d effectively be out of a job.

184
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:00:14pm

re: #173 Eclectic Cyborg

Nov. 8, 2016 - America elects a Bond Villain as President.

More like a Venture Brothers Villain. Bond Villains tend to be competent.

185
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:00:16pm

re: #173 Eclectic Cyborg

Nov. 8, 2016 - America elects an Bond Austin Powers Villain as President.

186
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:00:59pm
187
baileylamb  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:03:57pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

This guy.

[Embedded content]

(In my Jerry Springer Voice)
No he didn’t…

188
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:04:55pm

re: #184 EPR-radar

More like a Venture Brothers Villain. Bond Villains tend to be competent.

“He called you a Crumb-bum! Or maybe a crampon! It was hard to hear him!”

189
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:05:10pm

So because Trump is too busy watching Willard grovel, he has nobody who can take calls like these and thus avoid major diplomatic snafus.

190
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:05:39pm
191
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:09:34pm

P.S. Trump can’t even spring for a tie tack? Even I have a tie tack and I never wear ties!

192
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:12:34pm

The Nationalist Chinese (Taiwanese) were great allies during the Cold War. In the 50s and 60s the ROCAF received advanced reconnaissance aircraft, including U-2s, and it was they who made most of the very dangerous overflights of China during the dark days when real information about the mainland was hard to come by. A number of ROCAF pilots were killed or captured during these operations. Those captured were not released until 1982. Taiwan also provided the registration front for the CIA’s airlines CAT and Air America, as well as for any number of other candestine operations. See Black Cat Squadron. en.m.wikipedia.org

193
compound_Idaho  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:12:40pm

re: #149 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Your assumption that you would be able to manage better without the ACA is amusing, since that’s actually slowed the rate of increase in healthcare costs, but whatever helps you feel better. Who cares about those 20 million people who are going to lose their insurance?

Always glad to bring a little enjoyment to someones life. However, I lost my insurnace due to ACA. Signed up for a shiny new ACA approved policy. $15,000 a year in premiums for a $13,000 deductible. That’s $28,000 a year for those of you that are not good at math.

On top of that, I cannot use my local hospital. What the fuck am I dropping $28K for? It would make me “fell better” to have my old policy back where I could use my own doctor.

There are unintended consequences our grand plans. You can keep your plan” not true. “You can keep your doctor” not true. “You will save $2,500 a year in premiums” Bull shit. Pure unadulterated bull shit.

But it’s just anecdotal. Except for me.

194
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:21:44pm

The CIA pilots who made the wildly dangerous airdrops to besieged French troops at Dienbienphu in 1954 were technically employees of what was tecnically a Chinese civil airline, the Taiwan registered CAT. This was later and more famously known as Air America. The planes themselves carried spurious Chinese registration numbers and equally fictitious French military markings but were actually on loan from the US Air Force.The 7 surviving pilots were awarded the French Legion of Honor 50 years later.

195
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:25:16pm

*sitting here quietly LMAO at the completely bogus absurdity being spewed*

196
JasonA  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:25:48pm
197
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:26:22pm

re: #194 Shiplord Kirel

The CIA pilots who made the wildly dangerous airdrops to besieged French troops at Dienbienphu in 1954 were technically employees of what was tecnically a Chinese civil airline, the Taiwan registered CAT. This was later and more famously known as Air America. The 7 survivors were awarded the French Legion of Honor 50 years later.

Ah, Air America. “The proud bird with the camouflaged tail!”

198
We're Way Beyond Snark  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:27:49pm

re: #196 JasonA

Until they all started squawking “Noooooo!,” I was pretty sure there was nothing to see there.

Now they have my attention.

200
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:29:19pm

Pro tip, if you want to follow me and interact with me on Twitter, don’t do this:

201
gocart mozart  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:29:45pm
202
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:31:44pm
203
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:32:20pm

re: #163 stpaulbear

I’m not sure if this WaPo story was mentioned in earlier threads, but I read it at work today and wound up with a huge lump in my throat. I will never understand gun culture. To me, this was horrifying.

After a toddler accidentally shot and killed his older sister, a family’s wounds run deep

That is brutal.

204
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:32:59pm
205
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:33:03pm

re: #193 compound_Idaho

I have a friend on Medicare but wife not quite old enough to qualify. His BCBS policy quote for next year was $1100+ a month for a Silver policy for just her. BCBS is basically a monopoly here, and the state insurance commission is business friendly. Silver out of pocket for a family near the age max could have numbers like that if they get sick enough to go to max out of pocket. Too bad Republicans aren’t interested in their plight.

206
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:34:23pm

re: #201 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

But, but…Trump tweeted that She Called Him!!

Which begs the question- Hey, Donnie boy! How did she get your phone number?

Did she call Trump Tower in NY and ask for you? Does no one vet your calls? Or was it forwarded to you as a “business call”?

In any case, you’re screwed, fat boy. You really fucked the dog, here.

207
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:35:03pm

re: #197 austin_blue

Ah, Air America. “The proud bird with the camouflaged tail!”

They had the best weed. Or so I’m told.

208
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:36:59pm

re: #207 Shiplord Kirel

They had the best weed. Or so I’m told.

And China Girl. You gotta pay for the gas somehow.

209
Shiplord Kirel  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:37:39pm

re: #206 austin_blue

But, but…Trump tweeted that She Called Him!!

Which begs the question- Hey, Donnie boy! How did she get your phone number?

Did she call Trump Tower in NY and ask for you? Does no one vet your calls? Or was it forwarded to you as a “business call”?

In any case, you’re screwed, fat boy. You really fucked the dog, here.

Maybe she got the number from Putin.

210
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:37:42pm

Yeah. Emphasizing that he didn’t initiate the call really tells you that all those goobers saying “He’s brilliant! This is how you negotiate!” are full of shit. There’s no brilliant strategy, no swagger of arrogance. Just a fuckup, way beyond his expertise, caught with his pants down.

211
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:39:11pm
212
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:40:00pm
213
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:40:01pm

re: #200 teleskiguy

214
bratwurst  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:41:37pm

I know this may come as a surprise, but Trump might be lying here.

215
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:41:41pm
216
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:41:56pm

re: #205 BlueSpotinAL

I have a friend on Medicare but wife not quite old enough to qualify. His BCBS policy quote for next year was $1100+ a month for a Silver policy for just her. BCBS is basically a monopoly here, and the state insurance commission is business friendly. Silver out of pocket for a family near the age max could have numbers like that if they get sick enough to go to max out of pocket. Too bad Republicans aren’t interested in their plight.

I want to add looking into medi-share.

217
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:43:00pm

Here’s a report from the Taipei Times, which provides some background, but doesn’t quite get the timing or who initiated the call to whom.

Trump reportedly agreed to the call, which was arranged by his Taiwan-friendly campaign staff after his aides briefed him on issues regarding Taiwan and the situation in the Taiwan Strait, sources said.
Since being elected, Trump has spoken with Chinese President Xi Jinping (習近平), Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and South Korean President Park Geun-hye.

International relations experts said that a communication channel was lacking between Taiwan and the US, and that bilateral communications had to be carried out through the American Institute in Taiwan, the US Department of State and the US National Security Council, which at times gave rise to poor communications — for example, the friction between former president Chen Shui-bian’s (陳水扁) administration and that of former US president George W. Bush.

If the telephone conversation between Tsai and Trump could prompt the establishment of a direct communications channel between the two sides, misunderstandings would be reduced, thereby benefiting the relationship, experts said.

In related news, Stephen Yates, who was deputy security advisor to former US vice president Dick Cheney, is in Taiwan.

There’s quite a bit of passive voice here - which doesn’t clarify who called whom, let alone what was stated.

218
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:43:00pm

re: #205 BlueSpotinAL

I have a friend on Medicare but wife not quite old enough to qualify. His BCBS policy quote for next year was $1100+ a month for a Silver policy for just her. BCBS is basically a monopoly here, and the state insurance commission is business friendly. Silver out of pocket for a family near the age max could have numbers like that if they get sick enough to go to max out of pocket. Too bad Republicans aren’t interested in their plight.

If republicans weren’t such motherfuckers who hate America and Americans, this could have been fixed years ago. But that would amount to a democratic win so fuck you, America.

219
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:44:11pm

Don’t tweet this pic of Trump. He hates it.

220
Jenner7  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:44:17pm
221
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:44:57pm

re: #215 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yeah, China’s not one to shy away from makes its displeasure known.

222
lockjawcanbefun  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:47:28pm

re: #220 Jenner7

A facepalm isn’t loud enough.

Bull Shannon slaps his head

223
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:13pm

re: #202 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Oh, come on. It’s Drumpf. Call yourself the Holy Roman Emperor.

224
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:19pm
225
freetoken  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:29pm

Some may not have picked up that when I called him “Drumpfskind” what the “kind” was all about. It’s my bad German for “child”.

Trump acts like a child because he can’t control himself.

As we see with his tweet tonight.

226
We're Way Beyond Snark  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:44pm

re: #220 Jenner7

For the love of God, someone take away his phone!

227
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:48:51pm

re: #220 Jenner7

228
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:49:16pm

re: #226 We’re Way Beyond Snark

For the love of God, someone take away his phone!

All of them.

229
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:49:24pm

re: #220 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

The fact is, Drumpf, you have no idea what your actions have wrought, and that makes you eminently unqualified to be President of the United States. You, sir, are a disgrace to this country and, quite frankly, to the human race as a whole, and we are all the worse for having to suffer under your rule. I award you zero points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

230
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:50:16pm

And this just came into my email from Ted Cruz:

Greetings,

This week, with the death of Cuba’s brutal Communist dictator Fidel Castro, we witnessed a powerful moment for people all across the country, particularly Cuban-Americans like myself. Many families in our great state have suffered at the hands of the brutal Castro regime and have come to Texas to escape the hopelessness and evil that consumes the island.
While Fidel Castro’s death is cause for celebration, the tyrannical regime remains ever-present under his brother, Raul. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the United States has adopted a position of weakness and appeasement when dealing with hostile dictators. Change can come to Cuba, but only if America learns from history and prevents Raul Castro from perpetuating his brother’s oppressive legacy.

It is my hope and prayer that with a new president coming into office in January, American foreign policy will be one of strength and that one day we will see a free Cuba, where people can live according to their beliefs without fear of imprisonment, torture, or oppression.

Keep Texas Strong,

231
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:50:23pm
232
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:51:05pm

Trump is doing whatever he likes because he knows that he doesn’t actually have any of the responsibility of the job he just got elected to, so if he starts a diplomatic row right now, it will be Obama who has to clean it all up. So of course it makes sense for him to court Taipei in pursuit of business interests, because he thinks his actions have no consequences for him.

233
lawhawk  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:51:16pm

This Taiwanese news outlet says that the Taiwanese leader called Trump, but the call was set up by Trump people.

The name to watch in this is Stephen Yates, who looks like he’s getting a plum role.

234
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:51:23pm

re: #231 Stanley Sea

Heard from the Oval Office:

“GODDAMNIT, Joe, what did that Cheeto-skinned freak do now?!”

“Are you re-thinking your decision not to allow me to do any of those funny pranks yet, Mr. President?”

235
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:52:04pm

re: #230 Belafon

And this just came into my email from Ted Cruz:

I guess it has slipped Ted’s mind that Trump was perfectly willing to work with the Castros when he wanted to pursue business interests there.

236
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:53:18pm

re: #217 lawhawk

Here’s a report from the Taipei Times, which provides some background, but doesn’t quite get the timing or who initiated the call to whom.

I really don’t think it matters, do you? If staff initiated it, they’re clueless. If fat boy accepted it, he’s clueless.

Jimmy Breslin is still around to write “The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight: The Sequel”. Do it, Jimmy, do it! Eighty-six is not too old!

237
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:54:32pm

re: #236 austin_blue

I really don’t think it matters, do you? If staff initiated it, they’re clueless. If fat boy accepted it, he’s clueless.

Jimmy Breslin is still around to write “The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight: The Sequel”. Do it, Jimmy, do it! Eighty-six is not too old!

Does it matter? No, not really. But it is interesting to learn just how deep the stupidity runs.

238
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:54:42pm

re: #220 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Gah!!!!!

239
Jack Burton  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:56:11pm

re: #214 bratwurst

I know this may come as a surprise, but Trump might be lying here.

[Embedded content]

This is Von Clownstick’s version of getting caught in the cookie jar and saying: “I was getting a cookie for you.”

A grown man, elected President of the United States is doing this.

240
Joe Bacon  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:56:51pm

uve4Y7toojR5A/4mTVdLcUqd0GxsjpZMqdKF7oo6PdTR/w7CkD9miawzoWS96cTQwqgoNjLDHMgTdFulrvwPPSLkdALKymDwBA0zWnJCX/225BpwBfzmpvdWZ+igNZ/BOSu7v6Qy5Ul4TJng26tB3qtx78OhGp6iA6QuNDGHEXL51v3wzmA7uPETacU/uYbLSjtb9QueeCtUy+lNEjtqPjz31u140b51SdIShvkC3DR74mDUhvswBOV+vVOvKSvuNtvOs6LH39i3xU2Y+WQdhA==

241
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:57:04pm
242
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:57:04pm

I am not looking forward to four years of this.

243
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:57:58pm

re: #230 Belafon

And this just came into my email from Ted Cruz:

But we won’t close Gitmo.

244
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:58:47pm

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

I am not looking forward to four years of this.

4 years of “I didn’t mean to cause an international incident, I was just being polite…ly focused on my own business interests.”

245
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:59:06pm

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

I am not looking forward to four years of this.

I’m not looking forward to teaching this nation’s children the Duck And Cover protocols.

246
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 5:59:46pm
247
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:00:28pm

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

I am not looking forward to four years of this.

248
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:01:05pm

It’s Friday night, so I’m going to lightly pollute this space with ski porn.

Instagram

As some of you are noticing, today has been an opening day for the books. A little late but worth the wait. Here’s a shot from @cp_slc of @dillongreen getting the goods! #powder #epic #stoked #skialta #openingday

Instagram

This season is starting out right! From New Zealand to the Monashees to the Wasatch, today was my 11th day on skis. I’m so stoked to fall into the winter groove- eat, sleep, ski! Here’s a little video clip from the Monashees, courtesy of @evans_leah
What are your winter #bigmtndreams?

Instagram

It’s a 😊 Friday. A little vintage goods from the archives- @maxornothing back in 1985 staking his claim @altaskiarea, which opens today with the best start in six years! Utah is looking good!!! #powderinfocus Here’s to a powdery 2016/2017 season!! 📷 @leecohen_pics #powdertothepeople

Instagram

Our buddy Erik Nordin leaving his mark at @snowbasinresort - lots of opening days this week. Are you ready? Open Noon-7pm Today and 10-7 Saturday. Tunes, mounts, wax, FHL goods. You know the drill. @teletay88 & @teleroots will be holding it down. 📷: @gurryphoto #FreeheelLife #SpreadTelemark

249
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:01:27pm

re: #246 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

All the while their hero is scrambling to blame somebody else.

250
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:02:14pm

re: #249 Blind Frog Belly White

All the while their hero is scrambling to blame somebody else.

He’s pretty much blaming the President of Taiwan, saying he wouldn’t be in this situation if she hadn’t called to congratulate him.

251
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:02:17pm

re: #226 We’re Way Beyond Snark

For the love of God, someone take away his phone!

Is it going to be possible for some government agency to permanently block his cell phones in the interest of national security once he becomes president?

252
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:03:13pm

All I can think when reading this story is about the song “What Comes Next?” from Hamilton, which is sung by King George III:

What Comes Next?

They say
The price of my war’s not a price that they’re willing to pay
Insane
You cheat with the French, now I’m fighting with France and with Spain
I’m so blue
I thought that we’d made an arrangement
When you went away
You were mine to subdue
Well, even despite our estrangement, I’ve got
A small query for you:

What comes next?
You’ve been freed
Do you know how hard it is to lead?

You’re on your own
Awesome. Wow
Do you have a clue what happens now?

Oceans rise
Empires fall
It’s much harder when it’s all your call

All alone, across the sea
When your people say they hate you
Don’t come crawling back to me

You’re on your own…

253
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:03:46pm

re: #248 teleskiguy

It’s Friday night, so I’m going to lightly pollute this space with ski porn.

[Embedded content]

A-Basin?

254
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:03:52pm
255
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:08:11pm

re: #254 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

You know, I read stuff like that, and it is funny, but it’s also just so tragically depressing, because it is so damn accurate.

256
JasonA  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:08:28pm

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

I am not looking forward to four years of this.

If we get that many.

257
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:09:27pm
258
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:10:00pm

re: #251 stpaulbear

Is it going to be possible for some government agency to permanently block his cell phones in the interest of national security once he becomes president?

Sure. Drop a copper mesh screen over Trump Tower.

259
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:10:29pm

re: #234 thedopefishlives

Heard from the Oval Office:

“GODDAMNIT, Joe, what did that Cheeto-skinned freak do now?!”

“Are you re-thinking your decision not to allow me to do any of those funny pranks yet, Mr. President?”

260
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:10:38pm

re: #254 Interesting Times

261
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:12:01pm

re: #260 Unshaken Defiance

I like it. :)

262
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:12:04pm

Bwahaha:

(for memory-refresher purposes, canadiancynic is referring to this. Remember the good old days when it was enough to be considered unacceptable for a VP candidate? o_O)

263
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:14:37pm
264
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:15:09pm

re: #233 lawhawk

This Taiwanese news outlet says that the Taiwanese leader called Trump, but the call was set up by Trump people.

The name to watch in this is Stephen Yates, who looks like he’s getting a plum role.

So Cheney.

Bet Cheney won’t be in a wheelchair at Trumps inauguration.

Before opening DC International Advisory, Mr. Yates served in the White House as Deputy Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs from 2001 through 2005.

265
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:17:32pm

re: #248 teleskiguy

It’s Friday night, so I’m going to lightly pollute this space with ski porn.

[Embedded content]

I’m making my version of Colorado Green Chile (in your honor, of course)

It’s finally cold.

266
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:18:05pm

Josh is being uncharacteristically blunt.

267
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:19:03pm

re: #259 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

We are at Joe-Con 2. I repeat, Joe-Con 2.

*klaxon blaring*

268
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:19:56pm
269
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:21:19pm

re: #268 Unshaken Defiance

So do India and Pakistan.

270
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:22:30pm

re: #269 Lidane

I was gonna go for a full list but that 140 character thing kinda ruled that out.
//

271
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:22:58pm

re: #268 Unshaken Defiance

[Embedded content]

Japan, the EU, NATO, India, most of Africa…

272
Cheechako  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:24:45pm

In Denver, Howard Dean drops out, others campaign to lead DNC

Reeling from a disastrous election, national Democratic Party insiders gathered in Denver on Friday to begin picking up the pieces of a coalition that appears badly broken.

African American turnout was down, blue collar workers overwhelmingly ditched the party in favor of Republicans, and even as Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than 2.3 million votes, Democrats got whacked up and down the ballot in battleground states.

But one who was considered a front-runner, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, on Friday withdrew his name from the hat:

“I am not going to be a candidate for the Democratic National Committee chairmanship,” he said in a video message.

273
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:24:50pm

re: #268 Unshaken Defiance

274
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:24:53pm

re: #262 Interesting Times

Bwahaha:

[Embedded content]

(for memory-refresher purposes, canadiancynic is referring to this. Remember the good old days when it was enough to be considered unacceptable for a VP candidate? o_O)

Scott Walker got pranked badly by a DJ pretending to be one of the Koch brothers. Walker was pretty proud of how badly he was fucking over state employees.

Koch Whore: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker

275
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:27:08pm

re: #272 Cheechako

In Denver, Howard Dean drops out, others campaign to lead DNC

I liked Dean’s 50 state strategy but it’s probably just as well.

276
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:28:08pm

re: #273 MsJ

[Embedded content]

Indeed. Sigh. What did we do? He’s not even officially President yet and he’s already causing messes.

277
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:28:37pm

The GOP should never be forgiven for giving the nation Trump. Bad enough that they nominated him. Worse that he’s actually been elected.

278
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:28:52pm

re: #276 HappyWarrior

Indeed. Sigh. What did we do? He’s not even officially President yet and he’s already causing messes.

Messes which our current, far more competent President is cleaning up. When Obama is gone? Drumpf will have to clean up after himself… which seems about as likely as Chuck C. “Floor-Pooper” Johnson cleaning up after himself.

279
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:29:18pm

Appropriate on multiple levels :/

280
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:29:50pm

re: #276 HappyWarrior

Indeed. Sigh. What did we do? He’s not even officially President yet and he’s already causing messes.

That guy isn’t qualified to be dog catcher. If his daddy didn’t have money he’d likely be homeless. He’s a complete ignoramus.

281
Smith25's Liberal Thighs  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:32:04pm

re: #265 Stanley Sea

I’m making my version of Colorado Green Chile (in your honor, of course)

It’s finally cold.

Mmmmm……..

282
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:33:05pm

re: #280 MsJ

That guy isn’t qualified to be dog catcher. If his daddy didn’t have money he’d likely be homeless. He’s a complete ignoramus.

I’ve always felt that if Trump’s dad didn’t have money, he would’ve been a leg-breaker for the Mob. And he probably would’ve been fitted for a cement overcoat several decades ago, ‘cause he would’ve been terrible for business.

283
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:33:12pm
284
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:34:03pm

re: #257 Charles Johnson

Interesting. I’ve been listening to mid 70’s Jefferson Starship lately and thinking much the same thing. The instruments are a bit better handled (Caig Chaquico is actually really good) but the vocals are still as unusual as ever.

285
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:35:10pm

Celebrating here at RWC HQ. We had one of those tense “wait for medical test results” moments and all is well with the wife. I hope you’ll forgive me if my posts get a bit tipsy sounding as the evening progresses . ;-)

286
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:36:15pm

re: #285 Unshaken Defiance

Perfectly understandable. I am very happy to hear everything is okay. :)

287
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:37:20pm

re: #285 Unshaken Defiance

Celebrating here at RWC HQ. We had one of those tense “wait for medical test results” moments and all is well with the wife. I hope you’ll forgive me if my posts get a bit tipsy sounding as the evening progresses . ;-)

Marvelous news!

288
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:37:36pm
289
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:38:34pm

re: #285 Unshaken Defiance

Glad to hear that!

290
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:41:05pm

re: #253 austin_blue

A-Basin?

Haven’t been skiing yet this winter. Besides, A-Basin has exactly two runs open.

291
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:41:25pm
292
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:43:04pm

re: #290 teleskiguy

Haven’t been skiing yet this winter. Besides, A-Basin has exactly two runs open.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!

293
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:43:14pm

re: #290 teleskiguy

Haven’t been skiing yet this winter. Besides, A-Basin has exactly two runs open.

Hope springs eternal for an Alberta Express and Pacific moisture…

294
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:43:31pm

re: #278 thedopefishlives

Messes which our current, far more competent President is cleaning up. When Obama is gone? Drumpf will have to clean up after himself… which seems about as likely as Chuck C. “Floor-Pooper” Johnson cleaning up after himself.

I want to talk to Valerie Jarrett. How the fuck is the White House responding to this incompetent.

295
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:44:23pm
296
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:44:39pm
297
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:44:52pm
298
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:45:36pm

re: #293 austin_blue

Hope springs eternal for an Alberta Express and Pacific moisture…

I’d like to get down to Wolf Creek soon, they already have a 41” base.

299
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:45:50pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

Jesus Christ. He could lie us right into a nuclear war.

300
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:46:42pm

re: #296 Backwoods_Sleuth

I like Kai Ryssdal!

301
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:47:01pm

re: #289 Charles Johnson

re: #287 thedopefishlives

re: #286 PhillyPretzel

Thanks much my friends

302
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:47:03pm

re: #281 Smith25’s Liberal Thighs

Mmmmm……..

Nice to see you Smith!

ST/7R5mqM8znBnjjX/eoLXWB7oZReRB9vPu60zC8sObH1mpeYd2lTDqnT9W2txIiXAMhg7cFj38kPB299NCpqqXdontkHgPNbBY3QBgYSF4IeNJGvXbpfPNgybInx3CK8axDl8wJ/GZyJo5TEU/73SSQmX+n7enfqY2Fef2iFOZzpEmgeSNX24YoXqlgMOq0gA5PoRfdKdnI2PpCCMveBdOigUvuwp0EkX+4sMcdfjf4WOKCS62KCh1WPhNqFyd1Rcz0uZH8sLg=

303
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:47:42pm

re: #299 Eclectic Cyborg

Jesus Christ. He could lie us right into a nuclear war.

I used to be skeptical that Drumpf would get us involved in a full-on, global-scale nuclear war. I always assumed that he had enough base intelligence to be able to avoid unintentionally pissing anyone off too much. I was wrong, and I apologize for my earlier optimism.

304
lockjawcanbefun  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:48:26pm

re: #297 Lidane

69 in the username. Prior to deplorable and Pepe avatars, the surest sign of an idiot.

305
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:50:13pm

re: #304 lockjawcanbefun

I’MMA PUT 69 IN MY USERNAME

306
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:50:23pm
307
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:50:46pm
308
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:51:10pm

re: #299 Eclectic Cyborg

Jesus Christ. He could lie us right into a nuclear war.

I’m calling Vault-Tec on Monday.

309
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:51:24pm

re: #285 Unshaken Defiance

CHEERS!!

310
ipsos  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:52:37pm

re: #304 lockjawcanbefun

69 in the username. Prior to deplorable and Pepe avatars, the surest sign of an idiot.

Unless you’re my wife and that’s the year you were born…in which case you have a bunch of NSFW passwords.

And somewhere out there is a 28-year-old who was born on January 4, 1988 and wonders why everyone thinks the username she made around her birthdate means she’s a neo-Nazi…

311
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:54:28pm

Think about how piss poor that looks: The President Elect of the United States openly spewing lies and bullshit about other World Leaders.

This can only end badly.

312
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:54:34pm
313
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:55:19pm

re: #310 ipsos

I pity people who have the initials HH.

314
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:56:15pm

re: #312 Backwoods_Sleuth

How many of those 1300 workers voted for Trump you think?

315
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:56:28pm

re: #300 retired cynic

I like Kai Ryssdal!

Kai is such a great listen on Market Place (PRI)

316
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:56:42pm

re: #313 Eclectic Cyborg

I pity people who have the initials HH.

My father did, but he was inoculated by his service in WWII in the European theatre.

317
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:57:09pm

re: #305 teleskiguy

I’MMA PUT 69 IN MY USERNAME

Facebook Post

318
Timothy Watson  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:57:49pm

re: #308 Timothy Watson

I’m calling Vault-Tec on Monday.

I think the odds are significantly closer than indicated.

319
lockjawcanbefun  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:59:34pm
320
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:59:37pm

re: #313 Eclectic Cyborg

Me too. Even science fiction characters have it rough. David Weber had to give his main character Honor Harrington the middle name Stephanie. Of course I think he had Horatio Hornblower in mind when he created Honor’s name.

321
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 6:59:46pm

re: #312 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

BUTBUTBUT DRUMPF WORKED OVER THANKSGIVING TO SAVE THE JERBS!!!!

322
Mike Lamb  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:02:03pm

Pretty clear that the call was set up by Trump’s crew to have the Taiwanese president call Dick Face. I’m sure it was done just so that Dick Face could claim that she called him. It’s irrelevant who called who. The call should never have happened. Fucking idiot.

And Alesmith Speedway Stout is delicious.

323
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:02:58pm
324
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:03:26pm

Christ.

Anyone know if the Morrow Project is still hiring old soldiers?

325
Archangelus  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:03:44pm
326
Lidane  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:06:05pm

re: #323 teleskiguy

Obligatory:

PMV: Dare to be Stupid

327
MsJ  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:07:22pm

Word quiz du hour.

blog.dictionary.com

328
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:08:25pm

re: #291 Lidane

What the media doesn’t get is that while other people are playing checkers peek-a-boo, Trump is playing Russian roulette.

329
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:12:35pm

re: #326 Lidane

What did I just watch?

330
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:14:34pm

re: #42 HappyWarrior

I’m sure Wheat will have some interesting information on this. I really enjoy his insights as an American teaching in China.

I’m here, but still working through the thread. I woke up, had breakfast and then nearly lost it when I saw downstairs that Trump had spoken directly with President Tsai. Words fail me. I just checked the People’s Daily and Global Times to see if there’s been any reporting of Trump’s gaffe, but there’s nothing in the English language versions as yet. I’ll check the Chinese versions shortly. Probably the Party leadership is in turmoil, trying to devise a suitable response for Trump treating Taiwan as a separate nation.

Diplomatically, China may be frosty toward the USA for a while. Commercially is another matter. China is the world’s major supplier of rare earth metals, for example, which are used in such things as touchscreens. Beijing could easily choke off supplies to American manufacturers. American airlines could see their fees raised or routes challenged. The Chinese navy could also increase harassment of our ships in the East and South China Seas. There’s a lot of things China could do short of outright war to punish Trump and the USA for his diplomatic insult.

331
Charles Johnson  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:17:27pm
332
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:18:17pm

re: #326 Lidane

That was fcking awesome.

333
sagehen  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:19:11pm

re: #46 KGxvi

Pence at the very least knows how the game is played. As Krisotl (fuck, I can’t believe I’m citing him) said about Clinton, he’s “wrong within normal parameters”. The moment he gets real push back on something like abortion restrictions, he’ll fold knowing that there are less divisive issues to spend political capital on

It was PJ O’Rourke who said he was supporting Clinton because “she’s wrong about everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”

334
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:19:26pm
335
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:20:08pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

And 1.4 billion people, nearly 20% of the world’s population. Our paltry 300 million will get overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

336
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:20:39pm
337
allegro  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:20:43pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Isn’t China also sitting on a whole big chunk of American debt and have us by the balls on US products?

338
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:21:27pm

re: #322 Mike Lamb

Pretty clear that the call was set up by Trump’s crew to have the Taiwanese president call Dick Face. I’m sure it was done just so that Dick Face could claim that she called him. It’s irrelevant who called who. The call should never have happened. Fucking idiot.

And Alesmith Speedway Stout is delicious.

I’m reminded of his “invitation” to visit Mexico, which was in actuality something that Kushner had spent weeks setting up just so he could get the publicity of standing at a podium next to the Mexican president and lying that they’d reached some level of detente.

339
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:21:49pm

I think all the talk about nuclear war is kind of premature. The Chinese won’t so much as fart in our general direction over this. However, they must absolutely be licking their chops that such a nincompoop is taking over. This will be worse than the George W. Bush administration. W. had some adults in the House, he just didn’t know the difference between good advice and bad advice. Trump doesn’t want any advice, and when he screws up, he’ll act like it’s the media’s fault.

340
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:22:53pm
341
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:23:43pm

re: #340 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m sure they are standing quietly with their hand out, waiting.

342
Targetpractice  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:23:44pm

re: #337 allegro

Isn’t China also sitting on a whole big chunk of American debt and have us by the balls on US products?

It isn’t just finished products we’re buying from them, it’s the shitload of raw and finished goods they import from us. Imagine what Coal Country is gonna look like if China decides to look elsewhere for their energy needs.

343
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:24:38pm

re: #341 retired cynic

I’m sure they are standing quietly with their hand out, waiting.

The accepted procedure has already been demonstrated.

344
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:24:49pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Just 30 multiple warhead ICBM’s & 4 Type 94 SSBN’s with 12 multiple warhead SLBMs. Oh, and how ever many hundreds of nuke capable aircraft.

Nothing to worry about …

< spit >

345
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:25:03pm

re: #340 Backwoods_Sleuth

Let’s see, if 800 workers will get you 7 million in corporate welfare, 300 should be worth about 2.5

346
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:28:04pm

re: #344 William Lewis

Just 30 multiple warhead ICBM’s & 4 Type 94 SSBN’s with 12 multiple warhead SLBMs. Oh, and how ever many hundreds of nuke capable aircraft.

Nothing to worry about …

< spit >

They could do us in just like we did Japan. Sleeping giant, vastly more powerful industrial base etc etc.

347
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:32:53pm

re: #277 HappyWarrior

The GOP should never be forgiven for giving the nation Trump. Bad enough that they nominated him. Worse that he’s actually been elected.

And if millions of people die, the entire GOP must be banned from office forever. They need to be punished in a way never seen before.

But that’s if the republic survives.

348
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:33:50pm
349
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:34:27pm

So now I have several friends I’m talking out of a gun purchase or into more training than they ever imagined would be needed. Obdi if you are lurking what a perspective on our two or three day long debates!?! LOL irony upon irony. Thing is these are good people fearful not of the government but emboldened bigots. Olive skinned people looking to hurt them for their skin. People who saw those letters to Muslims threatening their existence. Or heard that rapey Mexican slur. Or saw that he won and just can’t get past WTF USA?

350
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:34:34pm

re: #344 William Lewis

Just 30 multiple warhead ICBM’s & 4 Type 94 SSBN’s with 12 multiple warhead SLBMs. Oh, and how ever many hundreds of nuke capable aircraft.

Nothing to worry about …

< spit >

Ah, that’s alright. We’ve still got a Nike-Hercules missile set up in town. With some hard work and some luck, we could re-engine it and re-arm it and take down … something. Sure, the Left Coast may be cinder and ashes, but we guard the approaches to the Midwest and the South, and isn’t that what’s important?

351
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:38:24pm

Maybe we should calm down a little. Nobody’s having a nuclear war over Taiwan. In my opinion this hyperbole disrupts considering the kinds of things that are far more likely to happen. Right now the smarter heads are NOT in DC

352
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:39:04pm

What if the sane world leaders just keep calling Obama?

353
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:39:45pm

re: #352 Belafon

What if the sane world leaders just keep calling Obama?

I don’t worry about the sane ones. I worry about not-so-sane ones!

354
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:40:16pm

re: #351 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Maybe we should calm down a little. Nobody’s having a nuclear war over Taiwan. In my opinion this hyperbole disrupts considering the kinds of things that are far more likely to happen. Right now the smarter heads are NOT in DC

I’m mostly being facetious. Drumpf is absolutely stupid enough to fall into a war of some kind, but most of the rest of the world is not, thank God.

355
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:41:24pm

re: #351 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Maybe we should calm down a little. Nobody’s having a nuclear war over Taiwan. In my opinion this hyperbole disrupts considering the kinds of things that are far more likely to happen. Right now the smarter heads are NOT in DC

It’s not that he might get us into a war over Taiwan, though if he makes a statement that Taiwan should be free, China will definitely increase it’s presence near our ships. And what do we think Trump will want to do if he hears about a close encounter with China?

It’s the cumulative effect of his idiocy on all of our foreign policy. Iran and Pakistan have come very close to attacking each other before when they had nukes.

356
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:42:44pm

re: #349 Unshaken Defiance

They sound like the types who would think they need to keep a loaded gun on the nightstand (see story in comment 163).

357
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:45:18pm

re: #352 Belafon

What if the sane world leaders just keep calling Obama?

I was thinking the same thing. Can Obama translate authentic penthouse gibberish?

358
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:45:45pm

re: #355 Belafon

I seem to recall this comment about what Trump would do if Iranian sailors flipped us off.

Trump : If Iranians Make Obscene Gestures We Will Blow Them Out of the Water

359
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:46:18pm

re: #352 Belafon

What if the sane world leaders just keep calling Obama?

“Excuse me, I know we broke up and everything, but… I want you back. I miss you.”

360
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:48:17pm

re: #351 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

Maybe we should calm down a little. Nobody’s having a nuclear war over Taiwan. In my opinion this hyperbole disrupts considering the kinds of things that are far more likely to happen. Right now the smarter heads are NOT in DC

I don’t think anyone seriously thinks a war would start just over a phone call, but…Trump is the sort to never let anything go, ever. I could see him easily making this worse and worse every chance he gets until we get to a point similar to pre-WWI, and then SOMETHING happens and all hell breaks loose.

I don’t think that’s likely…but then, I didn’t think it was likely that Hair Furor would win the election.

361
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:50:24pm

Checked the South China Morning Post (Hong Kong) in re: Trump/Tsai call. It usually reports on the official Beijing response, but this article says there has been none so far.

scmp.com

I have this image in my mind of a roomful of irate, confused foreign policy ministers in Beijing revising over and over the government’s official response to Trump’s call. They’re used to dealing with professionals, not a loose cannon rolling around wildly on a pitching deck.

I anticipate an official Beijing response by this afternoon, Beijing time. No way will they let this insult pass without a stern response.

362
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:51:56pm

re: #356 stpaulbear

They sound like the types who would think they need to keep a loaded gun on the nightstand (see story in comment 163).

You might think so. Fearful folks that dash out for a gun are not going to have the right habits or instincts. Please trust that I’ll be making all of that crystal clear to anyone who asks. Those that actually sign up for my curriculum are in for a thorough education.

363
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:51:56pm

re: #361 wheat-dogg

I imagine a collection of Chinese decision makers, gathered around a table, collectively shaking their heads and muttering the Chinese equivalent of, “What da fuq…”

364
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:52:57pm

re: #355 Belafon

I don’t think you’re really putting yourself in the other guy’s shoes. If the Chinese want Donald Trump (I’m not going to use the P-word) to make a mistake, they would do it best by diplomatic means. The military has a long institutional memory and local commanders will know what to do about provocations. The people who won’t know what they’re doing will be the upper echelons of State, Commerce, and Energy. The new administration thinks it already knows all the answers, and worse, they think the answers are easy. That’s where the Chinese, Russians, Iranians, hell, even the Luxemburgers will exploit Donald Trump.

365
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:53:23pm

re: #363 thedopefishlives

什么他妈的

Google translate don’t let me down….

366
Jayleia  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:54:00pm

re: #363 thedopefishlives

I imagine a collection of Chinese decision makers, gathered around a table, collectively shaking their heads and muttering the Chinese equivalent of, “What da fuq…”

And probably pouring up a glass of the hard stuff…for later, and then chugging the bottle

367
thedopefishlives  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:54:33pm

re: #366 Jayleia

And probably pouring up a glass of the hard stuff…for later, and then chugging the bottle

Ah, the dopefish approach to drinking. “I’ll just leave a little bit for the Mrs. Fish… Yeah, that ought to be about perfect for me.”

368
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:55:31pm

If you haven’t read it, go see Charles Gaba’s response to John Cornyn’s idiotic question of why people are uninsured if the ACA is so great: dailykos.com.
Short answer: Because Republicans are fuckers that keep trying to sabotage it.

369
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:57:05pm

re: #360 Jayleia

I don’t think anyone seriously thinks a war would start just over a phone call, but…Trump is the sort to never let anything go, ever. I could see him easily making this worse and worse every chance he gets until we get to a point similar to pre-WWI, and then SOMETHING happens and all hell breaks loose.

I don’t think that’s likely…but then, I didn’t think it was likely that Hair Furor would win the election.

If the PRC responds with anything hinting at an insult of Trump, he will respond (as usual) with some stupid tweet defending himself and reiterating that it was Tsai who called him. He might even work in an insult directed at the PRC.

Beijing makes a big deal about “face.” Whenever someone publicly criticizes China, such as a film star or pop musician, Beijing chastises them and demands they apologize for “hurting the feelings of the Chinese public.” Then the government denies them visas, so they can’t ever enter China to perform. Invite the Dalai Lama for an official visit? You’ve insulted the Chinese people. Criticize human rights violations, such as jailing lawyers and protesters, or denying Uighurs passports? You’ve insulted the Chinese people.

It’s a passive way of saying “you have made this government angry. Don’t do it again.”

370
Belafon  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:57:41pm

For the first time since the direct election of senators, every senator matched the vote for president in that state: dailykos.com.

371
SteveMcG RN  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:57:48pm

Donald Trump n the oval office reminds me of the time I tried out for my high school baseball team. All I could throw was a knuckleball, but it was February and I couldn’t hold the ball right, and threw a ball with just enough spin to go perfectly straight at about 30 mph. Before I knew it EVERYBODY was around the batting cage with a bat in their hands.

372
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:58:20pm

“…Trump is in a real estate partnership that borrowed $950 million from a group of banks including a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank and the state-owned Bank of China
motherjones.com

Maybe China will just call their loan.

373
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 7:59:16pm

Trump doesn’t realize he’s dealing with a bank that has an army, or vice versa.

374
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:00:22pm

re: #372 jaunte

“…Trump is in a real estate partnership that borrowed $950 million from a group of banks including a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank and the state-owned Bank of China
motherjones.com

Maybe China will just call their loan.

They can just ask to renegotiate it, maybe with a balloon payment due in, say, four years.

375
stpaulbear  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:00:40pm

re: #362 Unshaken Defiance

You might think so. Fearful folks that dash out for a gun are not going to have the right habits or instincts. Please trust that I’ll be making all of that crystal clear to anyone who asks. Those that actually sign up for my curriculum are in for a thorough education.

Would it be appropriate to send them a link to that WaPo story for them to ‘study’?

376
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:01:07pm

re: #369 wheat-dogg

I can’t assess how much our pivot to the pacific has angered the Chinese gov. But a rapprochement to the Russians must seem at least as threatening long term.

377
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:04:19pm

re: #376 Unshaken Defiance

I can’t assess how much our pivot to the pacific has angered the Chinese gov. But a rapprochement to the Russians must seem at least as threatening long term.

Combining this whatever-it-is toward Taiwan, and Trump’s closeness to Putin, I can see the Chinese being rather alarmed.

378
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:04:25pm

re: #372 jaunte

“…Trump is in a real estate partnership that borrowed $950 million from a group of banks including a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank and the state-owned Bank of China
motherjones.com

Maybe China will just call their loan.

He’s got the best repossessions, the greatest, most luxurious repossessions.

379
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:06:28pm

re: #375 stpaulbear

Would it be appropriate to send them a link to that WaPo story for them to ‘study’?

That’s not how I teach what can go wrong. It’s not as if they have not seen these stories already. There are no illusions or “hold my beer while I” moments in the lessons. Quite the opposite.

380
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:09:59pm

re: #376 Unshaken Defiance

I can’t assess how much our pivot to the pacific has angered the Chinese gov. But a rapprochement to the Russians must seem at least as threatening long term.

There have been some “incidents” involving the Chinese navy and our ships patrolling the South China Sea near those disputed islands that China claims as territory. No shots have been fired — yet. But if the CiC issued an order for Navy vessels to shoot at will any ‘aggressive” Chinese plane, drone or vessel, we’d be in a hell of a mess. China’s navy is still outclassed by ours, but that doesn’t mean it’s harmless.

China’s UN rep just agreed to sanctions against North Korea for its continued development of nuclear arms. China is clearly worried Kim the Least will destabilize the delicate balance of power in East Asia. Any suggestion that the USA could also destabilize the region will not go unchallenged.

381
jaunte  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:10:50pm
382
sagehen  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:12:43pm

re: #342 Targetpractice

It isn’t just finished products we’re buying from them, it’s the shitload of raw and finished goods they import from us. Imagine what Coal Country is gonna look like if China decides to look elsewhere for their energy needs.

Imagine what American manufacturing is gonna look like when “just in time” parts inventory turns into, “oh, i’m sorry, we’re not exporting to you at the moment. BTW, our several billion dollars worth of 6-month T-bills we’re holding? we don’t want to roll them over this time, we’d like the cash.”

383
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:13:21pm

re: #337 allegro

Isn’t China also sitting on a whole big chunk of American debt and have us by the balls on US products?

Yep. All they would have to do is start booby trapping iphones and flatscreen TVs and we’d be screwed.

384
Stanley Sea  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:16:14pm

re: #361 wheat-dogg


legit?
385
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:16:36pm

Listening loudly

Iframe

386
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:18:27pm

re: #383 Eclectic Cyborg

Yep. All they would have to do is start booby trapping iphones and flatscreen TVs and we’d be screwed.

They could just buy up all our companies and remaining land and fire everyone. Trump’s DOJ wouldn’t lift a finger.

Sorta like a metaphorical Red Dawn.

387
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:18:41pm

re: #384 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

legit?

CCTV says nothing without the express permission and direction of the Party. It could be a subtweet (as it were) of the Trump/Tsai call.

388
Myron Falwell (no relation)  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:25:21pm

re: #384 Stanley Sea

legit?

More than legit. China’s going to have Trump’s tiny unit in a vise.

389
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2016 • 8:30:28pm

re: #388 Myron Falwell (no relation)

More than legit. China’s going to have Trump’s tiny unit in a vise.

You better watch what you say. He’ll sue. After all, his man-ness has been verified by major worldwide publications.

390
Jebediah, RBG  Dec 2, 2016 • 9:06:52pm

re: #285 Unshaken Defiance

Happy celebrating!!

391
steve_davis  Dec 3, 2016 • 7:04:27am

re: #193 compound_Idaho

I have an ACA-derived policy, and I’m calling bullshit. You can’t wind up with 75,000 dollars a year in expenses. At least, not for covered events. Your out-of-pocket on Marketplace plans taps out below 10,000 dollars, even in bronze HSA plans. I have a silver plan. My annual deductible is 2,000 dollars, and my annual out-of-pocket cap is 4,400 dollars.

392
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 3, 2016 • 8:05:10am

re: #146 Targetpractice

As I noted downstairs, this is what alternate jurors exist for. This asshole should be bounced and an alternate brought in to continue the deliberations.

Might not have an alternate available at this point. When I did jury duty as an alternate a few years back I was dismissed once the jury was entering deliberations.

393
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 3, 2016 • 8:20:42am

re: #303 thedopefishlives

I used to be skeptical that Drumpf would get us involved in a full-on, global-scale nuclear war. I always assumed that he had enough base intelligence to be able to avoid unintentionally pissing anyone off too much. I was wrong, and I apologize for my earlier optimism.

When he starting shilling Trump Fall-out Shelters you should get very very concerned.


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