And Now, Donald Trump Announces Plan to Relaunch the Nuclear Arms Race

We’re all gonna die
Politics • Views: 47,650

So today Donald Trump decided to reignite the nuclear arms race, with a bizarre delusional tweet saying the US needs to “greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability.”

Apparently the Chest-Pounder in Chief thinks this will only be necessary “until the world comes to its senses” about nuclear weapons.

I don’t even know what to say about this level of twisted, dangerous thinking. It would be disturbing enough in any government official, but when the man who’s going to be president is saying reckless, idiotic things like this — making nuclear policy on Twitter! — we’re in a whole new nightmare.

The United States currently possesses more than 7,000 nuclear weapons, more than enough to wipe out all life on Earth many times over. But Donald Trump thinks we need more.

Coincidentally [cough], on the same day that Trump announces his plan to launch a new Cold War arms race, Russian president Vladimir Putin said something very similar, with added nightmare fuel about developing missiles that can’t be stopped by anti-missile systems.

But at least we’ll all be saying MERRY CHRISTMAS to each other as the world ends in a thermonuclear holocaust.

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201 comments

1
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 4:58:08pm

Preppers sounding just a little less crazy every time Donald Trump tweets. Someone wake me up, it’s my nightmare.

2
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:02:07pm

Just a friendly competition between two Alpha Males! What’s the worst that could happen?

3
jhncsy  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:03:09pm

re: #1 Unshaken Defiance

Preppers sounding just a little less crazy every time Donald Trump tweets. Someone wake me up, it’s my nightmare.

And how many do you think voted for this asshole, hm? They want to larp Fallout, fine. But then they drag us into it.

4
Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:04:58pm

re: #2 Blind Frog Belly White

Just a friendly competition between two Alpha Males! What’s the worst that could happen?

Putin’s the alpha male. Trump’s just the alpha dork.

5
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:08:50pm

This fucking guy.

6
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:11:58pm

This Tweet, coming from a Republican, is a bit of a surprise.


It generated an interesting discussion. The basic problem is that with ever-increasing productivity, we need ever-fewer worker hours to produce all the goods and services we can consume. The obvious answer is to reduce the number of hours/workweek, so you increase the number of workers needed, but not cut the annual income of those workers. And you need to address the fixed cost of employment, so you socialize most fringe benefits currently associated with employment. And you have to accept that this will channel more of GDP back into compensation, reducing profits.

So, it’ll never happen.

7
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:18:40pm

re: #6 Blind Frog Belly White

This Tweet, coming from a Republican, is a bit of a surprise.

[Embedded content]

It generated an interesting discussion. The basic problem is that with ever-increasing productivity, we need ever-fewer worker hours to produce all the goods and services we can consume. The obvious answer is to reduce the number of hours/workweek, so you increase the number of workers needed, but not cut the annual income of those workers. And you need to address the fixed cost of employment, so you socialize most fringe benefits currently associated with employment. And you have to accept that this will channel more of GDP back into compensation, reducing profits.

So, it’ll never happen.

It’s funny for me seeing Republicans who Pre-Trump with some exceptions never really had a problem with jobs going overseas but now that they know they can win votes by playing to communities that have lost jobs either to outsourcing or automation, they’re for it. If Republicans and those who voted for Trump want to bring these jobs back, they need to be prepared to accept reality of this situation which will be increased prices on goods as well as a possible return to unionization support. But the right won’t ever go for that. Saw something here or else where today that Trump’s vineyards here in VA are trying to expand foreign worker visas. Anyone who actually thinks Trump cares about the jobs is delusional. He knew it was a message that had appeal and he ran with it. IT was insincere bullshit.

8
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:19:16pm
9
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:19:31pm

Evening Lizardim.

10
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:19:32pm
11
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:19:48pm

Can I rant about something eles too but I’m sick and tired of seeing Bernie Sanders on television trashing the Democratic Party, a party he won’t even bother joining.

12
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:20:12pm

re: #10 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Even an asshole like Reagan dreamed of a nuclear free world.

13
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:21:12pm

The thing that gets me about restarting the nuclear arms race is… we won! Why the hell do we need to increase our nuclear armament? We outclass everyone in the field, just like we do with all of our other military programs. Why, exactly, do we need to add fuel to the fire by building more nukes? After a point, it’s just overkill. We can only nuke the world once.

14
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:21:26pm

Pretty fucking telling. Trump’s fanboys and girls accuse his critics of wanting another Cold War with Russia but here Donald and Vladdy are trying to expand their nuclear play things. Oh and by the way assholes who always bitch about taxes, your taxes will go up to pay for that shit because Donald’s tax bracket sure as hell isn’t paying for them.

15
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:22:16pm

re: #13 thedopefishlives

The thing that gets me about restarting the nuclear arms race is… we won! Why the hell do we need to increase our nuclear armament? We outclass everyone in the field, just like we do with all of our other military programs. Why, exactly, do we need to add fuel to the fire by building more nukes? After a point, it’s just overkill. We can only nuke the world once.

It’s the same thing with the military budget too. We already have without question the most capable military in the world but we need to spend more? The military budget is yet another example of why right wingers are hypocritical assholes when it comes to spending.

16
mmmirele  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:24:27pm

I see Thanos’ Page on how Uber is ending its self-driving car program in San Francisco.

Guess where the cars are coming? Arizona. And our asshat governor, Doug “Business is Best” Ducey is welcoming them with open arms. I am so furious.

“Arizona welcomes Uber self-driving cars with open arms and wide open roads,” Ducey said in a statement. “While California puts the brakes on innovation and change with more bureaucracy and more regulation, Arizona is paving the way for new technology and new businesses.”

usatoday.com

No, Doug, you’re putting hard-working drivers out of business for the sake of this bullshit. I just know there’s going to be an accident between one of these cars and a snowbird (one of the migrants from cold country who come here every fall).

17
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:26:06pm

re: #16 mmmirele

I see Thanos’ Page on how Uber is ending its self-driving car program in San Francisco.

Guess where the cars are coming? Arizona. And our asshat governor, Doug “Business is Best” Ducey is welcoming them with open arms. I am so furious.

usatoday.com

No, Doug, you’re putting hard-working drivers out of business for the sake of this bullshit. I just know there’s going to be an accident between one of these cars and a snowbird (one of the migrants from cold country who come here every fall).

Ducey sounds like a real douche. I don’t blame California for putting the breaks (pun unintended) on the self-driving program.

18
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:26:08pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Even an asshole like Reagan dreamed of a nuclear free world.

He was smart enough to be scared of the damned things. Trump reminds me of those gunfuckers who accuse others of being ‘scared of guns’ as if that’s a BAD thing.

And he reminds me of a former coworker, who didn’t have insurance on his car. I asked him what would he do if he got in an accident. He answered, unironically, “I don’t intend to get in an accident.”

19
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:28:18pm

re: #18 Blind Frog Belly White

He was smart enough to be scared of the damned things. Trump reminds me of those gunfuckers who accuse others of being ‘scared of guns’ as if that’s a BAD thing.

And he reminds me of a former coworker, who didn’t have insurance on his car. I asked him what would he do if he got in an accident. He answered, unironically, “I don’t intend to get in an accident.”

Very true and Reagan was alive to see what they were capable of. But yeah that is a good analogy, I don’t see anything wrong let alone “unmanly” with being afraid of guns. I don’t cower at the sight of one but I know what they’re capable of. Nukes are the same. co-worker sounds like a jackass.

20
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:28:48pm

re: #6 Blind Frog Belly White

Its will be interesting to see how a society that literally worships work handles the day when there isn’t much work for people to do.

21
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:29:07pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

It’s the same thing with the military budget too. We already have without question the most capable military in the world but we need to spend more? The military budget is yet another example of why right wingers are hypocritical assholes when it comes to spending.

Exactly my point earlier. I get wanting to have the biggest and the best, and on one level, I’m okay with that. But this isn’t the Cold War, and there isn’t another power on this Earth that can stand up to the current might of the US military. The only people who even come close, only get away with it because we’re compassionate enough not to kill the civilians whom they use as human shields. I’d rather we cut back on the numbers and use the budget to increase our technological approach, in the hope of reducing civilian casualties should we need to get in another shooting war (and my ultimate hope is that that would be never!).

22
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:31:01pm

re: #21 thedopefishlives

Exactly my point earlier. I get wanting to have the biggest and the best, and on one level, I’m okay with that. But this isn’t the Cold War, and there isn’t another power on this Earth that can stand up to the current might of the US military. The only people who even come close, only get away with it because we’re compassionate enough not to kill the civilians whom they use as human shields. I’d rather we cut back on the numbers and use the budget to increase our technological approach, in the hope of reducing civilian casualties should we need to get in another shooting war (and my ultimate hope is that that would be never!).

Agree 100%.

23
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:33:06pm

Was having a conversation with my Dad earlier about welfare and also foreign aid. One of his buddies always bitches to him about people on welfare so we both did some numbers crunching. 4% of the U.S population is on welfare and many of those people are children. Foreign aid came up because it’s something that people like his buddy love to complain we’re “wasting” “my hard earned tax money” on but ignore it’s such a small part of our GDP. Dad told me that he told his friend straight faced- You’d rather your money going to kill people than to feed a starving child. Makes me my father’s son because I too am a bleeding heart and proud of it.

24
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:33:36pm

re: #20 Romantic Heretic

Its will be interesting to see how a society that literally worships work handles the day when there isn’t much work for people to do.

Trende’s twitter thread is interesting largely for the number of people suggesting things which clearly are stop-gap, or just plain bandaids. And of course there are a few basically saying ‘Fuck ‘em’.

25
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:34:05pm

As bad as the Trump nuke tweet was, his later tweets about being able to substitute the F-18 for the F-35 shows just how clueless he and his supporters are.

There’s so much magical thinking and GOP math going on with Trump it’s hard to keep up, but I’ll do my best.

Jim Wright riffed on this earlier - Trump’s proposing billions of dollars of military spending and not a single clue as to how he’ll pay for any of it.

But the thing about modernizing the US nuclear arsenal is that Obama already has that underway. At the same time, Obama’s pushing to reduce the size - both out of necessity (it’s costly) and because he wants to reduce nukes per treaty and future treaty obligations.

Trump also wants to massively expand the military, which again is a cost he can’t cover.

All while giving massive tax breaks to the rich. And burden shifting to everyone else.

The GOP fiscal hawks are going to find themselves doing pretzel logic again to excuse massively ramping up the debt and deficits, especially when the economic growth needed for Trump’s tax scheme don’t materialize (he assumes 4% growth last time I checked, rather than the ~3% we have averaged for the past 2 decades, especially galling considering there’s only a handful of times when the US approached that kind of growth for more than a year).

This is a shitstorm of Trump economic proportions.

26
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:34:52pm

I guess I really need to do Twitter after all. Because I’m with Trump here. By which I mean, I want more nukes. For me personally, that is. As of now, I have zero. But if I can tweet up a half dozen or so small ones and maybe one or two big ones, I can turn this party around for everybody, or at least get into a serious career in extortion. And the beauty part is, I’m not half as crazy as Trump.

27
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:36:00pm

re: #25 lawhawk

As bad as the Trump nuke tweet was, his later tweets about being able to substitute the F-18 for the F-35 shows just how clueless he and his supporters are.

There’s so much magical thinking and GOP math going on with Trump it’s hard to keep up, but I’ll do my best.

Jim Wright riffed on this earlier - Trump’s proposing billions of dollars of military spending and not a single clue as to how he’ll pay for any of it.

But the thing about modernizing the US nuclear arsenal is that Obama already has that underway. At the same time, Obama’s pushing to reduce the size - both out of necessity (it’s costly) and because he wants to reduce nukes per treaty and future treaty obligations.

Trump also wants to massively expand the military, which again is a cost he can’t cover.

All while giving massive tax breaks to the rich. And burden shifting to everyone else.

The GOP fiscal hawks are going to find themselves doing pretzel logic again to excuse massively ramping up the debt and deficits, especially when the economic growth needed for Trump’s tax scheme don’t materialize (he assumes 4% growth last time I checked, rather than the ~3% we have averaged for the past 2 decades, especially galling considering there’s only a handful of times when the US approached that kind of growth for more than a year).

This is a shitstorm of Trump economic proportions.

It’s like the 1980’s all over again but with Trump as a more nutty Reagan and Putin is no Gorbachev.

28
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:37:27pm

re: #25 lawhawk

As bad as the Trump nuke tweet was, his later tweets about being able to substitute the F-18 for the F-35 shows just how clueless he and his supporters are.

There’s so much magical thinking and GOP math going on with Trump it’s hard to keep up, but I’ll do my best.

Jim Wright riffed on this earlier - Trump’s proposing billions of dollars of military spending and not a single clue as to how he’ll pay for any of it.

But the thing about modernizing the US nuclear arsenal is that Obama already has that underway. At the same time, Obama’s pushing to reduce the size - both out of necessity (it’s costly) and because he wants to reduce nukes per treaty and future treaty obligations.

Trump also wants to massively expand the military, which again is a cost he can’t cover.

All while giving massive tax breaks to the rich. And burden shifting to everyone else.

The GOP fiscal hawks are going to find themselves doing pretzel logic again to excuse massively ramping up the debt and deficits, especially when the economic growth needed for Trump’s tax scheme don’t materialize (he assumes 4% growth last time I checked, rather than the ~3% we have averaged for the past 2 decades, especially galling considering there’s only a handful of times when the US approached that kind of growth for more than a year).

This is a shitstorm of Trump economic proportions.

Presidents-in-waiting do not define materiel systems to satisfy doctrine-based mission requirements. Not ever.

This buffoon is simply full of shit.

29
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:39:53pm

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30
jhncsy  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:39:54pm

re: #25 lawhawk

As bad as the Trump nuke tweet was, his later tweets about being able to substitute the F-18 for the F-35 shows just how clueless he and his supporters are.

There’s so much magical thinking and GOP math going on with Trump it’s hard to keep up, but I’ll do my best.

Jim Wright riffed on this earlier - Trump’s proposing billions of dollars of military spending and not a single clue as to how he’ll pay for any of it.

But the thing about modernizing the US nuclear arsenal is that Obama already has that underway. At the same time, Obama’s pushing to reduce the size - both out of necessity (it’s costly) and because he wants to reduce nukes per treaty and future treaty obligations.

Trump also wants to massively expand the military, which again is a cost he can’t cover.

All while giving massive tax breaks to the rich. And burden shifting to everyone else.

The GOP fiscal hawks are going to find themselves doing pretzel logic again to excuse massively ramping up the debt and deficits, especially when the economic growth needed for Trump’s tax scheme don’t materialize (he assumes 4% growth last time I checked, rather than the ~3% we have averaged for the past 2 decades, especially galling considering there’s only a handful of times when the US approached that kind of growth for more than a year).

This is a shitstorm of Trump economic proportions.

At some point, the non-crazies will take back the government (don’t laugh, I need this). They’re going to try and fix what’s left of the US. And then these traitors will come out of the woodwork screaming about the deficit. And it’ll start all over again.

31
gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:41:33pm
32
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:41:45pm

re: #30 jhncsy

At some point, the non-crazies will take back the government (don’t laugh, I need this). They’re going to try and fix what’s left of the US. And then these traitors will come out of the woodwork screaming about the deficit. And it’ll start all over again.

It’s a pathetically predictable cycle. Republicans fuck up the deficit. Democrats despite years of GOP propaganda about Dems and budgets fix it. Republicans suddenly act concerned about the deficits and accuse the Dems of running up the deficit. I still cannot believe that this country fell for Trump’s bullshit. I’ll always love my country but I am ashamed that we elected a buffoon like Trump president.

33
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:42:42pm

We could all be burnt to a crisp, while images of Putin and Trump shaking hands in the Kremlin are aired all over the world. And many of us who survive would still be bitching about emails.

34
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:42:49pm
35
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:45:15pm

re: #33 GlutenFreeJesus

We could all be burnt to a crisp, while images of Putin and Trump shaking hands in the Kremlin are aired all over the world. And many of us who survive would still be bitching about emails.

Right wing propaganda has been powerful. Unfortunately, I just don’t know how it’s going to be fixed. And that’s something I blame squarely on FNC, Alex Jones, Breitbart, and the other right wing media outlets whose goal is not to inform but to create hateful and resentful bastards.

36
The Ghost of Senator Incatatus  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:45:48pm

re: #25 lawhawk

Obama liberals welfare queens coastal elites Snowball fucked up the budget.

You know it’s coming.

37
PhillyPretzel  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:46:09pm

re: #34 teleskiguy

The uncouth one is completely clueless.

38
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:47:27pm

re: #37 PhillyPretzel

The uncouth one is completely clueless.

What does that say about 25-50 million of our fellow citizens?

39
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:47:58pm

I guess the worst thing for me about this whole last year has been the horrifying realization that so many Americans look at Trump, and see the same things that I see, and think “That’s what I want for a President! A willfully ignorant, bloviating, bullying, thin-skinned con man!”

40
mmmirele  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:48:35pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

Very true and Reagan was alive to see what they were capable of. But yeah that is a good analogy, I don’t see anything wrong let alone “unmanly” with being afraid of guns. I don’t cower at the sight of one but I know what they’re capable of. Nukes are the same. co-worker sounds like a jackass.

Reagan saw the film “The Day After” and wrote in his diary that it was “very effective” and left him “very depressed.” I remember there were a couple other films that came out around the same time (“Threads” and “Testament”) in 1983-84. I remember being far more impacted by “Testament” than by “The Day After.” I guess because it was how it made clear that even if you survived the nuclear attack, the aftermath was just going to be horrible for months and years to come. (“Threads” was also that way.)

41
PhillyPretzel  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:48:47pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

They are the ones who are taken in by empty promises. If it sounds good then it is.

42
The Ghost of Senator Incatatus  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:50:34pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

What does that say about 25-50 million of our fellow citizens?

Tom Waits- Step Right Up

43
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:50:47pm

re: #39 Blind Frog Belly White

I guess the worst thing for me about this whole last year has been the horrifying realization that so many Americans look at Trump, and see the same things that I see, and think “That’s what I want for a President! A willfully ignorant, bloviating, bullying, thin-skinned con man!”

Me too. That’s been numbing me for the past month. I can get ideological disagreement. But Trump is more than just ideologically wrong for this country, he’s as you say a willfully ignorant, bloviating, bully, thin-skinned con man. I remember talking with my cousin who lives in the UK. She told me straight up in March as Trump was winning primaries that if Trump even got close to winning here, it would lower how we are viewed around the world. Well he’s won. I’m going to be traveling abroad next year. I’ve traveled abroad in Obama and W Bush’s presidencies and honestly never felt embarrassed to be an American either time but I just may with Trump.

44
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:51:14pm

re: #41 PhillyPretzel

They are the ones who are taken in by empty promises. If it sounds good then it is.

45
gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:51:35pm
46
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:52:21pm

re: #40 mmmirele

Reagan saw the film “The Day After” and wrote in his diary that it was “very effective” and left him “very depressed.” I remember there were a couple other films that came out around the same time (“Threads” and “Testament”) in 1983-84. I remember being far more impacted by “Testament” than by “The Day After.” I guess because it was how it made clear that even if you survived the nuclear attack, the aftermath was just going to be horrible for months and years to come. (“Threads” was also that way.)

Ah okay, didn’t know it was movies that did it for him. But you bring up a good point, the aftermath of such attacks. That’s something no one really talks about when discussing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Never mind how you may feel about President Truman’s decision, the impacts of those bombs lasted far beyond August 6/9, 1945.

47
gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:52:23pm
48
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:54:06pm

re: #47 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Ivanka’s a little different than Sasha and Malia. Barron or even Tiffany? Sure but Ivanka’s taking an active part of her father’s presidency and is even going to be first lady. She doesn’t deserve sexist attacks but she deserves criticism absolutely in a way that Sasha and Malia never have.

49
gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:54:45pm
50
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:55:23pm

re: #39 Blind Frog Belly White

I guess the worst thing for me about this whole last year has been the horrifying realization that so many Americans look at Trump, and see the same things that I see, and think “That’s what I want for a President! A willfully ignorant, bloviating, bullying, thin-skinned con man!”

Don’t forget about his racist and sexist bigotry - not to mention his embracing the idea of a fascist state with him as supreme leader. He wasn’t the darling of the neo-nazi “alt-right” for nothing.

51
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:56:22pm

re: #40 mmmirele

Reagan saw the film “The Day After” and wrote in his diary that it was “very effective” and left him “very depressed.” I remember there were a couple other films that came out around the same time (“Threads” and “Testament”) in 1983-84. I remember being far more impacted by “Testament” than by “The Day After.” I guess because it was how it made clear that even if you survived the nuclear attack, the aftermath was just going to be horrible for months and years to come. (“Threads” was also that way.)

Indeed. The night I watched Testament, when I tried to sleep*. I thought about what I would do if I were to survive**. Things like, I’d have to kill my cats rather then let them starve, then head off, probably on foot, up to San Francisco where the Not-Yet-Mrs. FBW lived, to see if she survived, because she would be the only person within 3000 miles I really cared about.

As these grim thoughts ran through my head, the wall above my head suddenly lit up. I about had a heart attack before I realized it was just the headlights of a car turning the corner out in the parking lot!

*After THAT movie? Yeah, right!

**In San Bruno? With Treasure Island, Mare Island, and Alameda NAS, and San Francisco all so close by? Again - Yeah, Right!

52
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:56:44pm

His national security adviser met with Neo fucking Nazis but hey Elena Kagan was bad because she clerked for Thurgood Marshall and cited him as a mentor!

53
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 5:58:04pm

re: #50 Don’t Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos

Don’t forget about his racist and sexist bigotry - not to mention his embracing the idea of a fascist state with him as supreme leader. He wasn’t the darling of the neo-nazi “alt-right” for nothing.

I didn’t, but I ran out of space for adjectives.

54
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:01:29pm

I hope he puts them out of business.

55
The Ghost of Senator Incatatus  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:03:57pm

re: #41 PhillyPretzel

But it’s a particular kind of empty promise: that you’ll get what you deserve—everything—and everybody else doesn’t deserve anything.

What’s fucking us isn’t ideology, it’s how people think on a more basic level. It’s why both Trump and the GOP can promise things, not deliver, lie, and shift blame so easily: their audience are rubes. Rubes get taken because they’ve convinced themselves that they’re “smart” in that nonspecific way that makes them incapable of being wrong. People, whether it’s because hubris or because self-doubt is painful, tend to double down rather than concede they could wrong.

ETA: which explains the continuous revisionism of the current right. Alternate universe Reagan; the eight year time warp between Clinton and Obama; and—coming soon—the power of a time-travelling black man to fuck up the Trump administrations noble goals.

The check’s in the mail, they swear.

In a scam, that double down happens maybe once or twice, as they’re gulled into investing more (look at MLMs—can’t sell your product? Recommit!). But in politics the re-commitment just keeps rolling. You can keep floating new reasons shit ain’t working, blame The Other Guys…and people will keep waiting for that payoff.

56
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:04:36pm
57
CriticalDragon1177  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:04:54pm

Charles Johnson,

I said it before, but I’ll say it again. Trump is going to go down in history as our dumbest, dumbest president!

58
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:05:19pm

re: #54 teleskiguy

And use the proceeds to fund climate research for years to come. That would be the ultimate screw-you to those NRO junk science nuts.

59
mmmirele  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:05:46pm

re: #51 Blind Frog Belly White

**In San Bruno? With Treasure Island, Mare Island, and Alameda NAS, and San Francisco all so close by? Again - Yeah, Right!

I was born in Richmond and my parents were living in Concord during that period. (I was a slacker in Austin, Texas at that time.) I think it hit home for me because it could be my family.

60
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:05:51pm

re: #57 CriticalDragon1177

Charles Johnson,

I said it before, but I’ll say it again. Trump is going to go down in history as our dumbest, dumbest president!

But he knows all the words, the best words!

61
Amory Blaine  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:06:20pm

My BIL buddy, Moose.

62
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:06:48pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The people? You mean your rich buddies? Oh and Donald, you loved bragging about your celeb buddies so shut the fuck up.

63
PhillyPretzel  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:07:10pm

re: #60 thedopefishlives

Which ones? The ones from Merriam-Webster or the ones from Oxford? /

64
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:07:24pm

re: #54 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

I hope he puts them out of business.

I’d love that. The ultimate stake on that prick Buckley’s coffin.

65
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:07:42pm

re: #60 thedopefishlives

But he knows all the words, the best words!

And he’s like a smart guy. LIKE a smart guy. Not ACTUALLY a smart guy, but like one.

66
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:08:07pm

re: #65 Blind Frog Belly White

And he’s like a smart guy. LIKE a smart guy. Not ACTUALLY a smart guy, but like one.

He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

67
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:08:57pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

68
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:09:10pm

Couple of quick comments

1. Putin’s comment really isn’t the same as Trump’s. It doesn’t suggest so much an increase in Russia’s nuclear arsenal as the continuation of it’s current policy which has been to upgrade it’s delivery systems and reduce their vulnerability to interception by defensive systems. Russia has already made several upgrades in recent years to it’s nuclear capabilities in that area.

Russia’s activities in this area make sense when you consider how outclassed they are conventionally by NATO and it’s allies. It’s doubtful that they could win a conventional war with Germany, France or the UK let alone the combined forces of NATO or the US, so they’ve focused on their nuclear capabilities as a deterrent and possible trump card in the event of a conflict. They’ve changed their doctrine as well to include first strike as an option in the event that they are essentially losing a conventional conflict.

2. Trump’s comment is plain stupid. While there is a need to upgrade our SLBMs and ICBMs given Russia’s recent upgrade of their own arsenal and the reality that our current systems are decades old and at the end of a reasonable life span, there’s absolutely no need to increase the size of our arsenal or the amount of warheads we have available to launch at a moments notice.

69
darthstar  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:12:05pm

It’s not a race. It’s a tandem sprint ahead of the rest of the nuclear peloton. The US and Russia building up assured mutual destruction so they can dominate the rest of the fucking world.

70
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:12:16pm
71
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:13:48pm

Kellyanne on Maddow right now interpreting Trump’s tweets. Fuck this. This is not supposed to be how it works. Kellyanne Conway for President!

72
gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:15:05pm
73
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:16:35pm

re: #69 darthstar

It’s not a race. It’s a tandem sprint ahead of the rest of the nuclear peloton. The US and Russia building up assured mutual destruction so they can dominate the rest of the fucking world.

Mutual destruction is still assured. Between the US and Russia there are about 3,000 warheads ready to be delivered at any given time.

74
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:16:47pm

re: #72 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

I DIDN’T WANT ALL THOSE CELEBS ANYHOW BUT I AM GOOD FRIENDS WITH SO MANY AWESOME PEOPLE, BUH-LIEVE ME!

75
darthstar  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:18:09pm
76
The Ghost of Senator Incatatus  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:20:06pm

re: #69 darthstar

In the case of Russia, it’s a way of being a world power…because they’re certainly not going to earn any influence by people looking at their domestic policies…that dovetails with their new “want to cluster bomb civilians? Can do, no fucks given” intervention policy.

In the case of the US, I’m worried it’s the same motive, because we’re about to gut all that domestic/foreign policy stuff that makes us the least-worst global power.

77
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:22:06pm
78
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:22:24pm

re: #68 Weaselone

1) Yup. Putin’s looking at maintaining MAD - deterrence theory, and overcoming US advantages on accuracy and reliability. New missiles would help their leveling of the playing field.

2) Trump doesn’t get that the US arsenal is already large enough to do the job not only of deterrence with Russia but to obliterate the world several times over. That arsenal size is such that there’s no incremental benefit of being larger since we can expect the Russians to launch their arsenal and blow up the world in the process.

There’s an issue of finding the lower range of what could result in destabilizing the MAD doctrine - but we’re still talking about a US arsenal with 1,600 warheads and a lower number of delivery vehicles (aircraft, missiles, AL/SLCMs). There’s a significant number of warheads and weapons held in stockpile - for disarmament/destruction per New START.

That number has declined to less than 1,600 warheads today, and is slated to decline to 1,550 warheads by 2018, after the New START Treaty completes implementation.

At the present time, the U.S. land-based ballistic missile force (ICBMs) consists of 440 Minuteman III ICBMs, each deployed with one warhead. The fleet will decline to 400 deployed missiles, while retaining 450 launchers, to meet the terms of the New START Treaty.The Air Force is also modernizing the Minuteman missiles, replacing and upgrading their rocket motors, guidance systems, and other components, so that they can remain in the force through 2030. It plans to replace the missiles with a new Ground-based Strategic Deterrent around 2030.

The U.S. ballistic missile submarine fleet currently consists of 14 Trident submarines; each carries 24 Trident II (D-5) missiles. The Navy converted 4 of the original 18 Trident submarines to carry non-nuclear cruise missiles. The remaining carry around 1,000 warheads in total; that number will decline as the United States implements the New START Treaty. The Navy has shifted the basing of the submarines, so that nine are deployed in the Pacific Ocean and five are in the Atlantic, to better cover targets in and around Asia. It also has undertaken efforts to extend the life of the missiles and warheads so that they and the submarines can remain in the fleet past 2020. It is designing a new submarine and will replace the existing fleet beginning in 2031.

The U.S. fleet of heavy bombers includes 20 B-2 bombers and 76 B-52 bombers. The B-1 bomber is no longer equipped for nuclear missions. The fleet will decline to around 60 aircraft in coming years, as the United States implements New START. The Air Force has also begun to retire the nuclear-armed cruise missiles carried by B-52 bombers, leaving only about half the B-52 fleet equipped to carry nuclear weapons.The Air Force plans to procure both a new long-range bomber and a new cruise missile during the 2020s. DOE is also modifying and extending the life of the B61 bomb carried on B-2 bombers and fighter aircraft and the W80 warhead for cruise missiles.

The Obama Administration completed a review of the size and structure of the U.S. nuclear force, and a review of U.S. nuclear employment policy, in June 2013. This review has advised the force structure that the United States will deploy under the New START Treaty. It is currently implementing the New START Treaty, with the reductions due to be completed by 2018.

So, far from ignoring the nuclear arsenal, the US under Obama is modernizing it, and has also slowed the retirement of nuclear weapons due to both some operational issues (problems at Pantex) as well as with the Russian aggressions.

Trump doesn’t get any of this. His supporters don’t care, but the generals and bean counters at the Pentagon do. They know this information forwards and backwards, because it’s their job to know. How they will handle Trump and his fact-free pocket universe will be key to keeping the nation safe.

79
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:22:45pm

re: #71 Barefoot Grin

Kellyanne on Maddow right now interpreting Trump’s tweets. Fuck this. This is not supposed to be how it works. Kellyanne Conway for President!

Sorry, what I meant to say was, please for god’s sake do not invite this fucking snake on to interpret tweets anymore. It demeans us all.

80
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:26:12pm

And now I’m Wiki-walking through the list of near-nuclear destruction incidents, wondering how many more we’ll have in the next 4 years.

81
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:26:18pm
82
Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:26:32pm

re: #79 Barefoot Grin

Sorry, what I meant to say was, please for god’s sake do not invite this fucking snake on to interpret tweets anymore. I demeans us all.

MSNBC is hopeless. Why watch?

83
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:26:45pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

There’s no one more thin skinned than Trump supporters. I think deep down some of them know they support a fraudulent clown but they hate liberals so admitting that Trump is a fraud may as well be praising ISIS to them.

84
Lidane  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:26:54pm

I swear Trump’s going to get all of us fucking killed.

But hey, at least a nuclear winter would cancel out global warming. ////////////////////////////

85
darthstar  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:28:34pm
86
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:28:42pm

re: #39 Blind Frog Belly White

I guess the worst thing for me about this whole last year has been the horrifying realization that so many Americans look at Trump, and see the same things that I see, and think “That’s what I want for a President! A willfully ignorant, bloviating, bullying, thin-skinned con man!”

Because he’s one of us!

87
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:29:05pm
88
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:29:56pm

re: #25 lawhawk

Jim Wright riffed on this earlier - Trump’s proposing billions of dollars of military spending and not a single clue as to how he’ll pay for any of it.

Just look at his Twitter feed. He wants Boeing and Lockheed to go to war with each other.

89
Lidane  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:30:02pm

ICYMI, Ben Howe over at Red State had an epiphany today:

90
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:30:13pm

re: #84 Lidane

I swear Trump’s going to get all of us fucking killed.

But hey, at least a nuclear winter would cancel out global warming. ////////////////////////////

Not only would nuclear winter reverse global warming, but by killing 90% of our species and effectively bombing us back to the Stone Age, the climate would remain stable for millennia./////

91
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:30:52pm

re: #82 Skip Intro

MSNBC is hopeless. Why watch?

It was on via my wife. I feel like Maddow has been coopted to some extent. She can still do some good work, as can Chris Hayes. O’Donnell is often ok, too. But the real reason it still exists is Joy Reid.

92
The Ghost of Senator Incatatus  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:31:05pm

re: #84 Lidane

On the plus side, with his track record the missile upgrade will involved superglued pinball machine parts, and all the cash will have just kind of wandered off in to shell corporation accounts.

93
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:31:39pm

re: #89 Lidane

ICYMI, Ben Howe over at Red State had an epiphany today:

[Embedded content]

He’s talking about that mother in DFW isn’t he? I do hope he opens his eyes about his former allies because a lot of them to be honest are really ugly people.

94
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:33:38pm
95
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:35:47pm

re: #94 Charles Johnson

Might as well not even have a counter. That fucker could stay permanently at 0 and not be wrong. Donald J. Trump is, and always will be, an embarrassment to the United States of America. He will go down in history as our worst President ever, he will serve only one term (if he even finishes the term), and even George W. Bush will look like a dignified statesman of skill and intelligence next to him.

96
Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:36:07pm

re: #91 Barefoot Grin

My point is if MSNBC is going to keep having Trump hacks come on to lie for him, screw them. Wasn’t doing that for the entire campaign enough?

97
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:37:03pm

re: #95 thedopefishlives

Damn, that’s the most virulent anti-Trump rant I’ve posted in a long-ass time. I really must be having a bad week.

98
Resistance Is Not Futile  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:37:19pm

re: #49 gocart mozart

He means “hold my root beer.”

99
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:38:11pm

re: #78 lawhawk

The US is also trying to move beyond a nuclear response to a major WMD or rogue nuclear attack. Global Rapid strike, if it ever comes to be. Weapons so fast and accurate they can let us destroy a building or threatening facility without the nuclear detonation and fallout. The Chinese have conventional ballistic missiles. we probably should too.

100
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:38:45pm

re: #84 Lidane

I swear Trump’s going to get all of us fucking killed.

But hey, at least a nuclear winter would cancel out global warming. ////////////////////////////

I remember watching with my stepdaughter, who was eight, when the Berlin wall was coming down. She asked me what it meant. In my best stepdad-is-all-wise voice I told her it meant she wouldn’t have to worry about the world blowing up in a hydrogen-bomb war, like I did when I was a kid and a teenager. She said, “I sure hope so.”

The fuck did I know.

101
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:39:04pm

re: #96 Skip Intro

My point is if MSNBC is going to keep having Trump hacks come on to lie for him, screw them. Wasn’t doing that for the entire campaign enough?

Many more up dings than the one.

102
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:39:06pm

re: #93 HappyWarrior

He’s talking about that mother in DFW isn’t he? I do hope he opens his eyes about his former allies because a lot of them to be honest are really ugly people.

I blocked Ben Howe a long time ago because he was such a right wing asshole. But I just unblocked him because it seems like he may be starting to wake up.

I emphasize “MAY.” Because any conservative who stuck with the right wing over the past 8 years doesn’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt. But maybe they’re just … slow.

103
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:41:14pm

re: #100 whitebeach

We had a path to peace, then a national minority of resentful Caucasians and disaffected voters threw it away like yesterdays paper.

104
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:41:22pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

I blocked Ben Howe a long time ago because he was such a right wing asshole. But I just unblocked him because it seems like he may be starting to wake up.

I emphasize “MAY.” Because any conservative who stuck with the right wing over the past 8 years doesn’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt. But maybe they’re just … slow.

You know these guys better than I do. I agree they don’t deserve the bod.

105
BeachDem  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:45:31pm

re: #35 HappyWarrior

Right wing propaganda has been powerful. Unfortunately, I just don’t know how it’s going to be fixed. And that’s something I blame squarely on FNC, Alex Jones, Breitbart, and the other right wing media outlets whose goal is not to inform but to create hateful and resentful bastards.

I think of those outlets as the snake—they are what they are. I equally blame the “traditonal media” who know that FNC, Alex Jones, Breitbart et al are raving assholes, but have gone out of their way to give them every benefit of every doubt, give them legitimacy with their “both sides” bullshit, and let them slime their way into the mainstream.

The MSM let that genie out of the bottle and now we’re all stuck with people like Richard Spencer and Tomi fucking Lahren being described as anything but the raging, bigoted hate-mongers they are.

106
Lidane  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:47:29pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

I blocked Ben Howe a long time ago because he was such a right wing asshole. But I just unblocked him because it seems like he may be starting to wake up.

I emphasize “MAY.” Because any conservative who stuck with the right wing over the past 8 years doesn’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt. But maybe they’re just … slow.

I don’t know that Howe has fully woken up, but RedState as a site was firmly in the Never Trump camp and Howe was part of an anti-Trump documentary called The Sociopath.

He’s definitely been having a lot of stopped clock moments over the last year. I guess watching the GOP fall in line behind Trump has set him off for some reason.

107
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:48:28pm
108
jhncsy  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:48:32pm

re: #99 Unshaken Defiance

The US is also trying to move beyond a nuclear response to a major WMD or rogue nuclear attack. Global Rapid strike, if it ever comes to be. Weapons so fast and accurate they can let us destroy a building or threatening facility without the nuclear detonation and fallout. The Chinese have conventional ballistic missiles. we probably should too.

I heard one of the US’s sane concerns to using conventional ballistic missiles was “how do we/they know that’s not a nuke?”

109
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:49:36pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

I blocked Ben Howe a long time ago because he was such a right wing asshole. But I just unblocked him because it seems like he may be starting to wake up.

I emphasize “MAY.” Because any conservative who stuck with the right wing over the past 8 years doesn’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt. But maybe they’re just … slow.

I don’t think he’s really changed - but he has always been on the correct side with respect to police violence and this is simply an example of that.

110
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:50:59pm
What. The. Fuck?!?
111
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 6:59:23pm

re: #110 teleskiguy

Ah, fuck. A nuke nutter. All I have to say is this: People are STUPID.

112
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:03:00pm

re: #99 Unshaken Defiance

The US is also trying to move beyond a nuclear response to a major WMD or rogue nuclear attack. Global Rapid strike, if it ever comes to be. Weapons so fast and accurate they can let us destroy a building or threatening facility without the nuclear detonation and fallout. The Chinese have conventional ballistic missiles. we probably should too.

There’s nothing magical or even very modern about ballistic missiles per se (V-2, anyone?). The US has plenty of guided missiles capable of destroying a targeted facility from long distance, as has been obvious for at least a couple of decades. Drones enhance this capability. I don’t know what the next technological step will be, but ballistics probably aren’t it.

113
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:03:49pm

re: #112 whitebeach

Three words: Ion Cannon Ready.

114
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:03:53pm
115
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:04:40pm
116
darthstar  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:05:50pm

KellyAnn was on Rachel.That woman (KA) has no soul.

117
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:05:51pm

re: #115 teleskiguy

The fuck kind of good are nukes going to be against ISIS? That kind of enemy can’t be fought with classic area-effect weapons of mass destruction. That will only make them stronger. You fight those bastards with precision strikes and by undermining their support.

118
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:06:13pm

re: #111 thedopefishlives

And worse, their vote counts just as much as your’s and mine.

119
darthstar  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:06:23pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

Welcome to most of my tweets.

120
Mattand  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:07:14pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

I blocked Ben Howe a long time ago because he was such a right wing asshole. But I just unblocked him because it seems like he may be starting to wake up.

I emphasize “MAY.” Because any conservative who stuck with the right wing over the past 8 years doesn’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt. But maybe they’re just … slow.

You’re waaaaaaay more charitable than I am.

121
calochortus  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:07:31pm

re: #118 Romantic Heretic

And worse, their vote counts just as much as your’s and mine.

Or more if they live in an underpopulated state.

122
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:07:41pm

re: #118 Romantic Heretic

And worse, their vote counts just as much as your’s and mine.

I wish we had a reliable test for intelligence. “You must be this capable of rational thought in order to cast a vote.” But alas, the informed electorate must wait for the arrival of a more informed generation… which may not be the next one, though I’m trying my damnedest.

123
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:08:09pm

re: #117 thedopefishlives

The fuck kind of good are nukes going to be against ISIS? That kind of enemy can’t be fought with classic area-effect weapons of mass destruction. That will only make them stronger. You fight those bastards with precision strikes and by undermining their support.

Remember “hearts and minds” which was strongly emphasized by the Bush admin?

124
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:09:01pm

re: #108 jhncsy

I heard one of the US’s sane concerns to using conventional ballistic missiles was “how do we/they know that’s not a nuke?”

By testing 50 of them over a few years, live fire. All announced as per ICBM treaty protocols. Just like the Chinese will do with the DF 12

125
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:09:20pm

re: #123 electrotek

Remember “hearts and minds” which was strongly emphasized by the Bush admin?

I do, and while that phrase is as stupid as it sounds, the idea behind it isn’t completely retarded. It’s unlikely that we’ll ever persuade the Middle East that we aren’t the Great Satan, but it’s plausible that we’ll be able to strike a compromise with significant factions that will help us curtail the radicalism.

126
retired cynic  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:09:31pm

re: #95 thedopefishlives

Might as well not even have a counter. That fucker could stay permanently at 0 and not be wrong. Donald J. Trump is, and always will be, an embarrassment to the United States of America. He will go down in history as our worst President ever, he will serve only one term (if he even finishes the term), and even George W. Bush will look like a dignified statesman of skill and intelligence next to him.

The thing that gets me is that the Republican presidents just keep on getting worse. I didn’t think we could get worse than Reagan, and we got W. I didn’t think we could worse than W, and … Boom.

127
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:09:49pm

re: #112 whitebeach

re: #113 thedopefishlives

Yeah, directed energy weapons are probably going to be next. That and nanotech weapons like cookie cutters.

128
Mattand  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:10:37pm

re: #117 thedopefishlives

The fuck kind of good are nukes going to be against ISIS? That kind of enemy can’t be fought with classic area-effect weapons of mass destruction. That will only make them stronger. You fight those bastards with precision strikes and by undermining their support.

That explanation is actually worse than Trump’s “More nukes” tweet. For fuck’s sake, ISIS probably wants us to use nukes, just for the sheer amount of civilian slaughter.

Please tell me Maddow shredded her five ways to Sunday.

129
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:11:23pm

re: #99 Unshaken Defiance

The US is also trying to move beyond a nuclear response to a major WMD or rogue nuclear attack. Global Rapid strike, if it ever comes to be. Weapons so fast and accurate they can let us destroy a building or threatening facility without the nuclear detonation and fallout. The Chinese have conventional ballistic missiles. we probably should too.

Wouldn’t the most logical means be some sort of space based kinetic weaponry, although I’m almost certain such things are banned?

130
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:13:03pm

re: #122 thedopefishlives

I wish we had a reliable test for intelligence. “You must be this capable of rational thought in order to cast a vote.” But alas, the informed electorate must wait for the arrival of a more informed generation… which may not be the next one, though I’m trying my damnedest.

Sorry, but my soon-to-be-94-year-old mother, in angry reaction to Trump’s election, has already called it for the next-younger generational dopes: “If one of the Kardashians runs next time, she’ll win.”

131
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:13:29pm

This is fucking horrifying==>

132
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:14:13pm

re: #112 whitebeach

Hypersonic cruise missiles may be it eventually. But for a 90 minute or shorter window anywhere in the world, ballistic or given a space treaty fail, from orbit. Longer and the facility gets to launch or the bad guys get away. At least that is the idea. Russia, China and the US are pushing on this tech.

133
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:15:59pm

re: #132 Unshaken Defiance

The US Navy is halfway there with their railgun experiments. I’m imagining a new class of battleship with 16-inch Mark X railgun cannons… Mmm…

134
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:16:08pm

re: #129 Weaselone

They are.

The problem is that they are a perfect first strike device. If launched they will knock out their targets before the country they are aimed at can react, even one as technically advanced as the US.

And thanks to 1/2M*Vsquared object dropped from orbit are nearly as powerful as nukes.

With ICBMs you’ll get lots of warning. From orbit, “Oh shit!” *BOOM*

135
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:16:37pm

re: #129 Weaselone

Wouldn’t the most logical means be some sort of space based kinetic weaponry, although I’m almost certain such things are banned?

From wiki:

The Outer Space Treaty prohibits weapons of mass destruction in orbit or outer space. However, the Outer Space Treaty only prohibits nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. Since the most common form of kinetic ammunition is inert tungsten rods, in most cases, kinetic bombardment is not prohibited by the treaty

136
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:19:11pm

re: #133 thedopefishlives

The US Navy is halfway there with their railgun experiments. I’m imagining a new class of battleship with 16-inch Mark X railgun cannons… Mmm…

I’m pretty certain that the rail guns are going to be first mounted on the overpriced, underarmed monstrosity known as the Zumwalt class destroyer. Seriously, what the frack is it with the US spending massive amounts of cash on new designs that work less well than the old ones and require massive technological innovations just to reach parity?

137
jhncsy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:19:55pm

re: #126 retired cynic

The thing that gets me is that the Republican presidents just keep on getting worse. I didn’t think we could get worse than Reagan, and we got W. I didn’t think we could worse than W, and … Boom.

I don’t have it on hand, but I remember an article that said, basically “If only the Democrats hadn’t cried wolf about Republican candidates getting worse every year! Then we’d have been ready to stop Trump.”

Which is just- gah!

We’ve gone in a line from McCain/Palin to Romney/Ryan to Trump. The Democrats didn’t lie. No one listened. Trump is a shitshow of malice and stupidity, but the basic contempt for humanity isn’t new.

138
Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:21:15pm
139
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:21:34pm

re: #136 Weaselone

I’m pretty certain that the rail guns are going to be first mounted on the overpriced, underarmed monstrosity known as the Zumwalt class destroyer. Seriously, what the frack is it with the US spending massive amounts of cash on new designs that work less well than the old ones and require massive technological innovations just to reach parity?

Oh, you’re no doubt right on that first point. On the second, I’ve been wondering about that ever since they doubled down on the F-35 debacle.

140
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:21:37pm

re: #134 Romantic Heretic

They are.

The problem is that they are a perfect first strike device. If launched they will knock out their targets before the country they are aimed at can react, even one as technically advanced as the US.

And thanks to 1/2M*Vsquared object dropped from orbit are nearly as powerful as nukes.

With ICBMs you’ll get lots of warning. From orbit, “Oh shit!” *BOOM*

Interesting. I suspect you could utilize reduced mass coupled with aerodynamics of the dropped object to reduce the scale of the devastation on impact.

141
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:22:03pm

re: #136 Weaselone

I’m pretty certain that the rail guns are going to be first mounted on the overpriced, underarmed monstrosity known as the Zumwalt class destroyer. Seriously, what the frack is it with the US spending massive amounts of cash on new designs that work less well than the old ones and require massive technological innovations just to reach parity?

Often the follow on learns lessons and is cheaper: the MBT-70 fiasco produced the M1 Abrams, the Seawolf Class gave way to the Virginia Class. The real problem is when that doesn’t happen and we forge ahead with a worthless project like the F-35.

142
Weaselone  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:25:05pm

re: #141 William Lewis

Often the follow on learns lessons and is cheaper: the MBT-70 fiasco produced the M1 Abrams, the Seawolf Class gave way to the Virginia Class. The real problem is when that doesn’t happen and we forge ahead with a worthless project like the F-35.

The real problem is if we don’t learn the less with the F-35, produce it and then the Chinese and Russians use the tech we developed to create superior, more specialized aircraft. Bonus points if they combine that technology with computer pilots.

143
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:25:08pm

re: #140 Weaselone

Interesting. I suspect you could utilize reduced mass coupled with aerodynamics of the dropped object to reduce the scale of the devastation on impact.

Aerodynamics, not so much. Dropping it through the atmosphere is going to leave either an object with certain aerodynamic characteristics or a fine metallic mist; there isn’t a lot of middle ground there unless you include some sort of detachable shell. However, if you could arrange a system for using a variable amount of mass, you could achieve a certain order of precision in the amount of destruction.

144
sagehen  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:26:27pm

re: #13 thedopefishlives

The thing that gets me about restarting the nuclear arms race is… we won! Why the hell do we need to increase our nuclear armament? We outclass everyone in the field, just like we do with all of our other military programs. Why, exactly, do we need to add fuel to the fire by building more nukes? After a point, it’s just overkill. We can only nuke the world once.

The only proper purpose for EVEN MOAR NOOKS is if they’re attached to a delivery system that will pulverize incoming asteroids or alien spaceships.

145
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:32:12pm

re: #129 Weaselone

re: #132 Unshaken Defiance

re: #134 Romantic Heretic

My guess (and it’s just that) is that the really big one will be an orbital laser weapon a couple of generations beyond what we non-MIT grads currently imagine. No warning with the speed of light.

I actually wouldn’t mind being around, and might well be, long enough to see snipers using laser weapons (not just laser-sighted), if only because it would make extinct the old Buffalo-Bill-sureshot-hero gunpowder memes. Imagine a rifle where windage, target motion, distance etc. make no difference at all. Suddenly the difficult technical work of infiltration, concealment, and escape would mean everything, and the mere ability to hit a sighted target almost nothing.

146
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:34:46pm
147
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:35:20pm

re: #133 thedopefishlives

The US Navy is halfway there with their railgun experiments. I’m imagining a new class of battleship with 16-inch Mark X railgun cannons… Mmm…

To be superseded when the wave-motion gun is perfected.

148
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:39:17pm

re: #136 Weaselone

I’m pretty certain that the rail guns are going to be first mounted on the overpriced, underarmed monstrosity known as the Zumwalt class destroyer. Seriously, what the frack is it with the US spending massive amounts of cash on new designs that work less well than the old ones and require massive technological innovations just to reach parity?

In part to simply work out the practicality of various technologies - and it will be in expensive and small classes of ships. The low number produced being part of the expense.

Compare this to USN submarine development from 1920-1936 and you can see something similar. 2-3 submarines of different designs as things were tried out to fit different doctrines, new technology (improving diesel engines, alternate fuels/engines, torpedo aim calculation computers (TDC), air conditioning, etc.)

149
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:41:28pm

re: #139 thedopefishlives

Oh, you’re no doubt right on that first point. On the second, I’ve been wondering about that ever since they doubled down on the F-35 debacle.

It appears the US military learned nothing from the F-111 and F-4 development programs. Every previous attempt to produce a “universal” aircraft for the USAF and USN to both use for multiple roles has been a failure.

150
Feline Fearless Leader  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:42:45pm

re: #144 sagehen

The only proper purpose for EVEN MOAR NOOKS is if they’re attached to a delivery system that will pulverize incoming asteroids or alien spaceships.

Trump probably thinks he can farm out delivery of the nukes to Amazon drones.

151
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:43:05pm
152
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:44:20pm

re: #145 whitebeach

My guess (and it’s just that) is that the really big one will be an orbital laser weapon a couple of generations beyond what we non-MIT grads currently imagine. No warning with the speed of light.

I actually wouldn’t mind being around, and might well be, long enough to see snipers using laser weapons (not just laser-sighted), if only because it would make extinct the old Buffalo-Bill-sureshot-hero gunpowder memes. Imagine a rifle where windage, target motion, distance etc. make no difference at all. Suddenly the difficult technical work of infiltration, concealment, and escape would mean everything, and the mere ability to hit a sighted target almost nothing.

We really need to refine our ability to amicably settle our differences faster than we develop the ability to more efficiently or selectively kill one another. I love aerospace and technology. Grew up obsessed with the X-15 program and rocket engine testing within distant earshot. The military pays those bills in a big way. But it’s saddening.

We will get past nukes I think. Be able to hit somewhere fast enough to stop something horrible without radiating the province.

153
Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:44:40pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

I don’t know why they’re holding conformation hearings at all. Every single one of Trump’s picks will get approved anyway.

Why not just get the taxpayers to pay for a huge “welcome aboard” party at Trump’s D.C. Hotel instead?

154
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:44:47pm

re: #149 Feline Fearless Leader

It appears the US military learned nothing from the F-111 and F-4 development programs. Every previous attempt to produce a “universal” aircraft for the USAF and USN to both use for multiple roles has been a failure.

I know we’ve talked about this before, but you’re absolutely right. The USAF and USN have two different strategic roles, to say nothing of the requirements for the aircraft to fit those strategic roles. Trying to make a one-size-fits-all aircraft is a noble goal, but is prohibitively expensive and results in a sub-par aircraft for all roles, instead of having aircraft that excel in their respective roles. Look at the mixed complement of the F-15, F-16, A-10, and F/A-18 and the huge success they’ve had over decades of US military service. That’s because they are niche aircraft that fit their role well. The F-22 was a capable replacement for the F-15, but you can’t replace the F-16, A-10, and F/A-18 in a single swoop and expect it to perform as well as all three combined.

155
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:50:17pm

The cause of and solution to all our problems.

Alcohol

156
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:50:40pm

re: #155 teleskiguy

The cause of and solution to all our problems.

[Embedded content]

Video

And now it’s time for another drink!

157
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:51:19pm

What a waste. Such a pretty girl, ruined her own life by allowing herself to be seduced by wanton destruction. Can’t help but to pity her.

158
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:51:49pm

re: #155 teleskiguy

The cause of and solution to all our problems.

[Embedded content]

Speaking of Butthole Surfers, I saw them perform in Houston Sunday evening. They were great!

159
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:53:59pm

re: #158 electrotek

Speaking of Butthole Surfers, I saw them perform in Houston Sunday evening. They were great!

Did they set their cymbals on fire?

160
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:54:56pm

re: #159 teleskiguy

Did they set their cymbals on fire?

Sadly no they did not. After all, it was their first show since SXSW 2011. Along with Aphex Twin, scoring them was a HUGE deal for the festival as well.

Just sucks that it was so cold when they were performing, thanks to the winter blast that came out of nowhere.

161
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:56:21pm

re: #159 teleskiguy

Also, someone was brave enough to record the ENTIRE Aphex Twin set as well. ALL 2 hours of it!

I’m forever grateful to him so I can relive my memories of witnessing a legendary electronic act from the 90s.

APHEX TWIN Live in Texas - HD Sound - Full 2 Hour Concert at Day For Night 2016!!!!

162
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 7:56:59pm

re: #160 electrotek

If you got 10 minutes, watch this total weirdness by the Surfers. Not really safe for work.

Entering Texas

163
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:02:02pm

re: #152 Unshaken Defiance

We really need to refine our ability to amicably settle our differences faster than we develop the ability to more efficiently or selectively kill one another.

From your lips to God’s ears. Sadly, the hundred thousand or so years of our species’s existence have shown little evidence that we can do this.

We will get past nukes I think. Be able to hit somewhere fast enough to stop something horrible without radiating the province.

Despite anything Trump burbles, we will have to get past nukes or we will not be there to think about the Next Thing.

164
Stanley Sea  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:07:02pm

RBMONxuJe/J2Qulsy8sctX6M4r5+bBlEU2pHoMNupwpIJ206S5l2sWvvUFR19EAMsI9Qjv4GbkLxtg5zGDQUSdL/nFZCu59b/8l/kNFzl5da7c5+McBcL0pBOk7JyMct535dxNHinXVL4goGE355V7Hxwm4wNZFmRvWJ+xwEA8nGCoei8/NQyXYkpsC4rgsZGxcRA91GD9oLo8cBLqAte+Zx4Y+oBKONKYJboqjA+oP9p0PJeNUedD6zYyPHzvuB4sTO7KwnsQrpMxtvlo+DOY3by8SFKN8n1Q5dLdNSantU0CzZ2sS8aGU2wClYa5eU+CwG0czWeWRU/09W+qkEpKtRNm8Zde8HjQE+1PuWqSIqrGe7SlWvPyLcTwy0qt60B8iXzB0ApuMZXQ7BcbsM0A6tQwfeoAf4KM0SlKyVWyyCaCkrlBMW6kQI+3DaYWaknAJExdg7J2itCnXxcHCqlhf5ZtiDpsxX

165
Charles Johnson  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:09:50pm
166
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:14:04pm

Dear lord …

167
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:19:46pm

Day two of no water in my house.

That gave an excuse for my wife to go out and eat, since we cannot wash dishes. On the other hand, we’ve been eating out every day for a couple weeks since we went off to California.

The village maintenance mechanic just dropped by my house to check and see if we’re all right since we have no water. We have plenty we backed up into containers, and the plumber will be here tomorrow to start repairs.

My wife called our homeowner insurance company this morning to see if an exploding water pipe would be covered. She noted to the company that since we store nothing in our cellar, there is no damage other than to the plumbing itself. (The cellar floor is dirt, so the water in the basement is slowly sinking into the ground, there is no need to pump the cellar though I have to go out and shovel mud out from in front of the insulating inner door so I can close it.)

They said that such damage is covered under our policy. The only thing they require is the plumber save the exploded pipe for them. The insurance adjuster will also be out tomorrow to assess the plumbing damage.

168
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:22:58pm

re: #165 Charles Johnson

I think that somewhere around the fourth or fifth slice from the left in the top row we go from Americans to murderers, rapists, terrorists, and all kinds of other bad things. Way down at the bottom right we finally get to African blood diamond miners, who are really OK, in their place. Or did I misinterpret this work?

169
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:25:17pm

re: #166 teleskiguy

Oh, and fucker who thinks nukes don’t exist also thinks Earth is flat.

170
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:26:48pm

re: #169 teleskiguy

Nukes don’t exist heh? What are all those Minuteman III silos all around where I live really hiding? FEMA camps?

171
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:27:13pm

re: #170 Anymouse

Nukes don’t exist heh? What are all those Minuteman III silos all around where I live really hiding? FEMA camps?

They’re conventional missiles that we pretend are nukes to scare the Russkies.

172
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:28:53pm

re: #171 thedopefishlives

They’re conventional missiles that we pretend are nukes to scare the Russkies.

Awfully expensive way to pretend. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to simply dig holes and put nothing at all in them?

173
thedopefishlives  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:30:09pm

re: #172 Anymouse

Awfully expensive way to pretend. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to simply dig holes and put nothing at all in them?

*shrug* I never said it made sense. It’s just what they argue. When you ask follow-up questions like that, they usually resort to calling you a stooge or some other derogatory name.

174
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:31:38pm

This video displays every single time humans have exploded nuclear weapons on Earth since they were invented.

A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto

175
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:31:55pm

Trump Team Asks State Department to Hand Over Information on Gender Equality Programmes (goes to Huffington Post)

A memo emailed to State Department employees on Wednesday, obtained by The New York Times, asks for full reports on all existing programs and activities to promote gender equality, “such as ending gender-based violence, promoting women’s participation in economic and political spheres, entrepreneurship, etc.”

The Trump team didn’t ask for the names of government employees working on those issues, but did request a list of jobs whose primary functions are to promote gender equality, and the funds for those programs.

The memo’s language immediately triggered concerns.

“It’s not clear to us what the intent is behind this request,” an anonymous official told The Washington Post. “The Trump team could be looking to advance gender issues and make it a priority ― or you could look at it as a witch hunt.”

More at HP.

176
whitebeach  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:33:35pm

re: #172 Anymouse

Awfully expensive way to pretend. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to simply dig holes and put nothing at all in them?

What makes you think those aren’t just empty holes? Hmmmmm?////

177
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:38:10pm

re: #175 Anymouse

Trump is going to find out the hard way he can’t bully around government staffers like he can his corporate employees.

178
retired cynic  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:38:32pm

re: #177 Eclectic Cyborg

Trump is going to find out the hard way he can’t bully around government staffers like he can his corporate employees.

I hope.

179
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:40:38pm

Why the fuck do people still think Dearborn is under Islamic law? Fucking Hell.

180
stpaulbear  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:42:17pm

re: #166 teleskiguy

Dear lord …]

WEARING THE LEAD PROTECTOR WHEN GETTING AN XRAY AT THE DOCTORS OFFICE IS A FRAUD!!1!

181
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:43:19pm

re: #177 Eclectic Cyborg

Trump is going to find out the hard way he can’t bully around government staffers like he can his corporate employees.

Step one: All of President Obama’s department heads will be replaced by the incoming minority president.

Step two: His picks to run those departments will then give the orders to comply with such McCarthyite requests.

Either a) someone will provide the witch hunt lists, or
b) they will refuse and quit (thereby aiding the destruction of the agency in question)

This has the stink of Mike Pence on it (and maybe Steve Bannon).

182
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:43:26pm
183
electrotek  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:44:21pm
184
stpaulbear  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:45:22pm

re: #170 Anymouse

Nukes don’t exist heh? What are all those Minuteman III silos all around where I live really hiding? FEMA camps?

Their for GRAIN!! Like the PIRAMIDS!!

185
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:47:45pm

The so-called House Freedom Caucus aims to dismantle the National School Lunch Program.

huffingtonpost.com

186
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:47:52pm
187
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:48:41pm

re: #184 stpaulbear

Their for GRAIN!! Like the PIRAMIDS!!

Inverted grain silos. LOL

A lot easier to fill, just dump the truck in a hole.

Getting it out to load on trains might be a bit tougher though.

188
Stanley Sea  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:49:30pm

re: #174 teleskiguy

This video displays every single time humans have exploded nuclear weapons on Earth since they were invented.

[Embedded content]

I gave up at 8:50. Where in the Pacific is France testing? Looked up - Mururoa.

I am flabbergasted that nukes is the subject of the day. Insanity.

189
retired cynic  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:52:34pm

re: #188 Stanley Sea

Don’t worry; he’ll think of something else to derail the conversation tomorrow. If it causes WW3, that’s just a sideshow.

190
stpaulbear  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:53:01pm

re: #188 Stanley Sea

I gave up at 8:50. Where in the Pacific is France testing? Looked up - Mururoa.

I am flabbergasted that nukes is the subject of the day. Insanity.

Someone needs to convince Trump that using nukes is the equivalent of spending his own money.

191
MsJ  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:53:06pm

re: #186 teleskiguy

192
Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:53:53pm

o.O

193
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:57:25pm

Trump sunk many years of Israel Palestine policy with one phone call.

Egypt was to bring a resolution condemning Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank.

In the past, because of the USA’s position on the Security Council, we have routinely vetoed such measures.

This time around, the USA was expected to abstain, which would in theory allow the resolution to pass.

However, Mr. Trump took to the airwaves, claiming such a resolution would be “extremely unfair” to all Israelis. A few hours later, Egypt chose to postpone the vote indefinitely.

huffingtonpost.com

194
teleskiguy  Dec 22, 2016 • 8:59:17pm
195
Anymouse  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:00:55pm

re: #194 teleskiguy

Shorter Corker: GOP senators will continue to avoid doing their jobs, film at eleven.

196
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:06:08pm

re: #69 darthstar

It’s not a race. It’s a tandem sprint ahead of the rest of the nuclear peloton. The US and Russia building up assured mutual destruction so they can dominate the rest of the fucking world.

That’s what I said. Putin’s and Trump’s statements weren’t oppositional, they were complimentary. They want to build common nuclear arsenal to take China down, and anyone else who gets in their way.

197
Romantic Heretic  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:11:06pm

re: #136 Weaselone

Because in the US (Other countries too, but worse in the US) weapons procurement has more to do with aiding the bottom line of large corporations and making sure Congresspeople and Senators get re-elected.

National security is almost secondary now.

198
Scottishdragon  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:17:25pm

re: #117 thedopefishlives

The fuck kind of good are nukes going to be against ISIS? That kind of enemy can’t be fought with classic area-effect weapons of mass destruction. That will only make them stronger. You fight those bastards with precision strikes and by undermining their support.

Jesus…I said here a month ago that Rump was going to use a nuke on an ISIL target…

199
baileylamb  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:23:37pm

re: #68 Weaselone

I see it more as Putin seeing how trained his pet really is. There really wasn’t a need for Putin to announce it to the world. There’s announce long game here, lots of players lots of pawns.

200
Shazam  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:38:48pm

All the people in the last fifteen years who have told me we should just nuke the entire middle east might actually get their wish.

201
Joe Bacon  Dec 22, 2016 • 9:42:31pm

re: #179 electrotek

[Embedded content]

Why the fuck do people still think Dearborn is under Islamic law? Fucking Hell.

Because 19th Century Fox, Alex Jones, Hate Radio and TV preachers keep repeating that lie!


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Thanos
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