Some Democrats Are Trying to Convince Themselves Pence Would Be a Better President

But I’m very skeptical
Politics • Views: 35,603

Credit: DonkeyHotey

As his behavior gets more and more reckless and unstable, the talk about removing Trump from office is getting louder every day, and now Buzzfeed is reporting that some top Democrats are trying to convince themselves that a Mike Pence presidency wouldn’t really be so bad.

“I’d sleep easier with almost any other human being as president than Donald Trump,” the former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau told BuzzFeed News. “I’m not as worried [Pence] would accidentally start a nuclear war because some Breitbart lunatic floated a conspiracy that got under his skin.”

“I never thought I’d be in a world where I’d say this, but I’d much rather have Mike Pence in the Oval Office,” said another former senior Obama administration official. “And the reason comes down to one word: crisis. All of the chaos of the last two months in the Trump White House has been self-inflicted.”

“I think it’s fair to say that every Democrat I know would prefer a President Mike Pence, without hesitation,” said a third top Democratic aide. “He would pass some very bad laws, possibly more efficiently than Trump will. But we would not be worried about nuclear war, the end of NATO and an unholy alliance with Russia, the dissolution of basic democratic norms and principles, or the base-level stability and mental health of the world’s most powerful person.”

“I know Pence is a much more doctrinaire conservative, but he is not evil and he is not crazy,” said one of Bill Clinton’s former top White House staffers. “I know that’s a pathetically low bar for the most powerful job on earth, but if that’s the choice, it is an easy one.”

I have to disagree. If you compare practically anyone to Donald Trump they’d seem level-headed, but in many ways Mike Pence is just as much of a horror show of authoritarianism — and you can add in the even worse component of religious fanaticism to that, which is one thing Trump doesn’t have, although he’s not averse to faking it to appease his easily duped religious right supporters.

You could argue, in fact, that Pence would actually be worse because he knows how politics and government works, and he’d be much more efficient and effective at imposing the GOP’s radical right wing agenda than Trump, who’s even pissing off his allies with his bizarre behavior.

Trump is a nightmare president, and he’s doing real damage to the United States. But say he’s removed from office. The question becomes: then what? Because when America elected the Trump-Pence ticket, it ensured a lose-lose situation. And even if Pence were somehow removed as well… then what? Horror show Paul Ryan would be next in line. Followed by horror show Orrin Hatch, followed by horror show Rex Tillerson.

It’s a horror show all the way down, and I don’t mind saying it’s pretty depressing to think about.

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300 comments

1
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:23:33am

Pence would be far worse because he knows how the system works.

2
Decatur Deb  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:23:51am

Pence would not be. Let Trump be Trump, the Full Monty Trump. The greatest danger is that he learns to look as sane as Nixon.

3
nines09  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:25:43am

Trump is a fascist. Pence is a religious fascist.

4
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:25:48am

Neither is appealing but gun to the head, I guess I’d rather have Pence.

5
Decatur Deb  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:27:42am

re: #4 HappyWarrior

Neither is appealing but gun to the head, I guess I’d rather have Pence.

You would have him longer, perhaps forever.

6
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:27:42am

Trump could blunder his way into a nuclear holocaust.

Compared to that, just about any other Republican really is preferable as president, even an evil piece of shit like Pence.

7
Timothy Watson  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:28:15am

We might be able to repair the damage that Pence would do, you can’t repair a nuclear holocaust.

8
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:28:32am

Hitler or Goering?
Hitler or Himmler?

9
b.d.  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:28:39am

Pence may be insane but he ain’t crazy. I’d take him any day over Hair Furor.

Trump is going to toe the wingnut line any ways so we might as well have us a POTUS who won’t get us in a war with Mexico or Australia.

10
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:30:28am

re: #7 Timothy Watson

We might be able to repair the damage that Pence would do, you can’t repair a nuclear holocaust.

That’s my line of thinking.

11
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:30:59am

re: #7 Timothy Watson

We might be able to repair the damage that Pence would do, you can’t repair a nuclear holocaust.

Bingo. Of course there is going to be massive damage done to the US by Republicans over the next few years. You can’t have such a heavy infestation by corrupt wreckers and vandals as we currently have with Republicans in the US and expect no damage.

12
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:31:43am

It’s all so terrible though. Trump or Pence. Fuck me.

13
Timothy Watson  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:32:08am

And if Trump is ran out of office, his supporters might be so pissed off at the Congressional Republicans they might skip an election or two.

14
Charles Johnson  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:32:34am

I wouldn’t be so sure that Pence isn’t just as crazy as Trump. The real difference is that he’s a slicker politician, trained by the religious right to hide his agenda while fucking over women and poor people and minorities at every opportunity.

I’m not sure that’s better than a guy like Trump, whose narcissism at least makes him unable to hide anything. He boasts about his agenda.

This situation is so fucked up, I can hardly believe it’s happening. But it’s real, and America is in a shit load of trouble here any way you cut it.

15
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:32:52am

re: #12 HappyWarrior

It’s all so terrible though. Trump or Pence. Fuck me.

Republican control of both houses of congress is the real problem at the federal level.

16
Decatur Deb  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:33:00am

re: #11 EPR-radar

Bingo. Of course there is going to be massive damage done to the US by Republicans over the next few years. You can’t have such a heavy infestation by corrupt wreckers and vandals as we currently have with Republicans in the US and expect no damage.

America earned Trump. As usual, the helpless will pay for the sins of their betters.

17
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:33:25am

The only way in which Pence is better than Trump is that he’s reliably awful and evil with an efficiency that Trump knows nothing of. We know he’s going to impose all those extreme right wing and Christian theological laws that deprive minorities their rights - and with ruthless efficiency.

Trump is awful and evil and unreliable in anything he says or does.

From a foreign policy standpoint, you want reliability, so a guy in a coma is preferred to Trump who’s contemplated using nukes despite his advisers saying that’d be a bad idea.

But back to Pence.

This fucker is still trying to defend Trump as though Trump is going to help small businesses. There is absolutely nothing in either man’s background that suggests they’d help small businesses. Not their opposition to Obamacare, which gives people a chance to change jobs or get covered easier. Not their opposition to higher wages which can help businesses retain workers (and reduces churn and costs to train). Not the fact that Trump’s entire business history is littered with stiffing small businesses or suing small businesses that do business with Trump enterprises.

Trump has done nothing to help workers. He cares only of enriching himself, and his fortune was based on an inheritance (and daddy bailing him out, along with a variety of banks and creative accountants and tax lawyers).

18
petesh  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:34:24am

Pence would be awful, but more easily defeated at the polls. He did damage in Indiana, but ended up unpopular; had he not quit the Governor’s race, by most estimates he would have lost.

Now, as with Nixon, it may be that the first step would be to get rid of the VP. For those too young to remember, Spiro Agnew was so corrupt he got busted while VP, a rare feat, and I have rarely met a brick wall that was thicker. The country could stagger on with Ford for a bit, but who the hell knows who Trump would pick as a replacement? And could we really get rid of Pence anyway?

19
Clearly a Country For Sick Old Haters  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:34:37am

The problem with the Trump disaster is that people who would otherwise be horrified by a President Pence will be relieved at the change from Trump to Pence.

Trump shifted the political window.

20
b.d.  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:34:39am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

I wouldn’t be so sure that Pence isn’t just as crazy as Trump. The real difference is that he’s a slicker politician, trained by the religious right to hide his agenda while fucking over women and minorities at every opportunity.

I’m not sure that’s better than a guy like Trump, whose narcissism at least makes him unable to hide anything. He boasts about his agenda.

This situation is so fucked up, I can hardly believe it’s happening. But it’s real, and America is in a shit load of trouble here any way you cut it.

If Trump is guilty of a crime it has to be Pence, letting him skate is not an option.

21
Charles Johnson  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:35:53am

You could argue, in fact, that Pence would actually be worse because he knows how politics and government works, and he’d be much more efficient and effective at imposing the GOP’s radical right wing agenda than Trump, who’s even pissing off his allies with his bizarre behavior.

22
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:35:56am

re: #15 EPR-radar

Republican control of both houses of congress is the real problem at the federal level.

And it’s the only one we have a chance of fixing before 2020.

Trump is a disaster, and Pence or Ryan would be different kinds of disasters in their own way. There’s a lot of tradeoffs, but I’d rather just have the madman out of office.

23
Bubblehead II  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:36:13am

re: #5 Decatur Deb

You would have him longer, perhaps forever.

I highly doubt that. The blow back against the GOP removing tRump will be a thing of beauty. The base will rise up against the “establishment” GOP (and Pence is considered part of the establishment) and either leave en mass to form a third party or primary every member of the establishment GOP that supported such a move. Either way, such a move would forever fracture the GOP.

Just my two cents

24
Kragar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:36:51am

Any Republican in a leadership position is a disaster for this country.

We’re so fucked.

25
Decatur Deb  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:38:04am

re: #23 Bubblehead II

I highly doubt that. The blow back against the GOP removing tRump will be a thing of beauty. The base will rise up against the “establishment” GOP (and Pence is considered part of the establishment) and either leave en mass to form a third party or primary every member of the establishment GOP that supported such a move. Either way, such a move would forever fracture the GOP.

Just my two cents

I hope you’re right, but Trump is more likely to finally put the fascist pathology in the shitcan of History. It will hurt.

26
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:38:28am

re: #20 b.d.

If Trump is guilty of a crime it has to be Pence, letting him skate is not an option.

All of the options suck because Republicans have both Congress and the presidency. Doing Trump-Pence as a double impeachment, even if Republicans would ever let that happen, just gets us POTUS* Ryan.

So if we have to choose between Republicans, we should choose the one less likely to kill us all.

27
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:39:12am

I’m hungry

National Meatball Day
28
Belafon  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:39:12am

Would Pence be wiping out the State Department? I could see him putting idiots in at the EPA and Labor, but I’m not sure anyone else would be doing what Trump and Tillerson are doing at State.

29
b.d.  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:40:01am

re: #26 EPR-radar

All of the options suck because Republicans have both Congress and the presidency. Doing Trump-Pence as a double impeachment, even if Republicans would ever let that happen, just gets us POTUS* Ryan.

So if we have to choose between Republicans, we should choose the one less likely to kill us all.

Yep impeach Trump and President Pence would appoint Mike Huckabee his VP to ensure that he’d never get impeached…

30
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:40:39am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

You could argue, in fact, that Pence would actually be worse because he knows how politics and government works, and he’d be much more efficient and effective at imposing the GOP’s radical right wing agenda than Trump, who’s even pissing off his allies with his bizarre behavior.

Here’s the thing. Trump can only be removed by his fellow Republicans. And that isn’t going to happen unless one or more of the many skeletons in his closet bursts out into the open, and is too horrible for even Republicans to ignore. That will be politically devastating for the GOP, and the Democrats should sweep back into the White House in 2020, and if its bad enough maybe even regain Congress. So yes, I can live with two or three years of Pence as President to watch the GOP commit suicide removing Trump.

31
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:41:31am

re: #25 Decatur Deb

I hope you’re right, but Trump is more likely to finally put the fascist pathology in the shitcan of History. It will hurt.

That’s what I was hoping would be the story of the election in 2016 — the racist fascist pig ran as such and lost, thereby shitcanning that part of Republican pathology.

That did not go well.

I have no faith that this will work better with Trump in the presidency, and there’s a good chance he will kill us all before any hard lessons are learned (if they ever are).

32
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:42:11am

Followup from downstairs

33
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:42:33am

I was just checking some music videos at YouTube and saw these. The news media is trying…don’t know how much this is all getting through though.

First one is Bill Kristol tearing apart the new healthcare bill on Morning Joke (and I didn’t have to watch Morning Joke…yay!)

The second is Chris Cuomo jabbing Sean Spicer how he and Trump aides have to clean up after Trump tweets…plus a good jab at Sean getting notes passed to him during his rundown.

“Trumpcare WILL fail” Bill Kristol DESTROYS Donald Trump’s healthcare plan

Chris Cuomo DESTROYS Sean Spicer and Donald Trump on CNN

34
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:45:07am

OTOH - Trump generates a lot of support through sheer force of personality. A lot of people voted for him because of his personality (the ‘Fuck your feelings’ contingent).

Pence is pretty much the opposite. He’s got pretty much zero charisma, and he’s not really that smart.

That said, he’d be at least nearly as bad as Trump, but for different reasons. President Pence wold also be a shitshow, but a different kind of shitshow.

35
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:46:11am
36
The Ghost of Senator Incitatus  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:47:03am

The way I look at it is: Trump is the chancre, not the whole disease. Things will not transform nearly as much as people imagine, were he to be removed. The Congress, the existing appointees in the executive, will march on in a manner very similar to what Trump has laid down.

And I don’t think that many things being attributed to “Trump, he crazy” are really about just the 45th President. The gutting of the executive, the purging of skilled bureaucrats in favor of cronies…that’s about a larger system of people around 45 that includes Pence. Much of the GOP is okay with stripping out the normal operation of governance, because all of them ultimately don’t believe in the US system…even though they code that rejection carefully. They’re seizing an opportunity to further rig the game, and they’re not going to quit because one chess piece is removed.

I’ve said before, this isn’t Trump’s America, this is Mitch McConnell’s America as well: a permanent majority attained through procedural rigging, a vast effluent pipe of social conservatism flowing into federal policy, and zero-sum approach to partisanship and message discipline: no doubters, no breaking party lines.

37
Hecuba's daughter  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:47:22am

But Pence won’t sell us out to the Russians. And as others said, is less likely to inadvertently start a nuclear war.

38
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:49:01am
39
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:49:59am

re: #33 ObserverArt

OK, I can’t be the only one concerned. Kristol has got to be very near to using up all of his life’s allocations of “stopped clock moments”.
This would be a horrible time to go back to being wrong about everything…

40
BlueGrl21  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:50:51am

OK, I look at it this way….if we deal with another Hurricane Katrina, or an escalating international crisis where nuclear war is on the table, or another 9/11, who do you want as president? When the serious shit hits the fan, and it always does, who do you want in the Situation Room between the two of them? Trump won’t even go into the Situation Room.

Pence can do more policy damage, yes. Policy can be reversed. Agencies can be rebuilt. He will do the same damage as Trump and it will impact people’s lives just as badly and that is what people really care about. They don’t care if it’s Trump or Pence that takes away their healthcare or doesn’t deliver jobs. The impact to elections will be the same. It will be about what the government did for and to them.

I don’t want Trump in office just so his crazy will make the Republicans look bad and make it easier for us to defeat them in elections. I’m thinking about who is saner when the shit hits the fan in this country. It’s Pence.

41
Rocky-in-Connecticut  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:53:35am

Nuclear war aside, Congressional legislation under Pence might be even worse than Trump.

Trump at least has a populist rhetoric that throws bones and (in the end) meaningless job retention stories to the working class. Under Trump, the top 0.1% will make out like bandits, but within some sort of limits guided by Trump’s own narcissism and absolute need for public approval .

Under Pence, all gloves are off. All pretensions of populism are off the table, and the totality of right wing Republicanism can be achieved. We are talking about a wholesale bloc grant of the entirety of American wealth directly to the 0.1% that would make the pre-Gilded Age of years ago seem almost charitable. Top 1%? They will do fine under Pence. But really the aim is a wealth transfer to the top 0.1% in an exponential curve of tax breaks and brackets. Perhaps even total Income Tax repeal.

PS. The Deficit is going to explode under both Trump and Pence. 6 years from now will be a grand reckoning for the American People with their decision to elect this ticket into office.

42
A wild WITHAK appeared!  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:54:28am

re: #40 BlueGrl21

OK, I look at it this way….if we deal with another Hurricane Katrina, or an escalating international crisis where nuclear war is on the table, or another 9/11, who do you want as president? When the serious shit hits the fan, and it always does, who do you want in the Situation Room between the two of them? Trump won’t even go into the Situation Room.

Pence can do more policy damage, yes. Policy can be reversed. Agencies can be rebuilt. He will do the same damage as Trump and it will impact people’s lives just as badly and that is what people really care about. They don’t care if it’s Trump or Pence that takes away their healthcare or doesn’t deliver jobs. The impact to elections will be the same. It will be about what the government did for and to them.

I don’t want Trump in office just so his crazy will make the Republicans look bad and make it easier for us to defeat them in elections. I’m thinking about who is saner when the shit hits the fan in this country. It’s Pence.

I tend to agree.

If Trump is ousted, Bannon goes with him; that alone is enough for me to prefer President Pence/Ryan.

43
(alpuz)  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:54:47am

They’re both batshit crazy shitgibbons. Pence just has nicer hair.

44
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:55:00am
45
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:55:18am

I’m all for the whack-a-nutty-Republican game.

I’d love to see Trump whacked as it would signal the stupidity of ever voting for him and it would expose the GOP for trying to make him seem legit.

The faster it happens the more it looks bad. If Trump doesn’t last a year or so, it shows how big a fuck up it was, he couldn’t even last his term.

Then when the Pence block head pops up, you whack him for being another Trump lackey for joining Trump as his running mate and being stupid enough to think he could excuse Trump. Make him own Trump.

Paint it all as America Screwed up Big lea(gue) and Trump, Pence and the entire GOP are all a part of it for allowing it to happen.

If they boot Trump there is no way that can be seen as good.

And if there are people pissed off Trump was booted, then they are going to be pissed at the Republicans that did it as it will have to be Republican lead.

46
Frenchy  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:55:55am

Sorry but I agree with Favreau wholeheartedly.

Don’t get me wrong, Pence is a very bad guy, and the Republican social and economic agenda is very bad, so it would be very bad for America.

But I wouldn’t worry as much about a catastrophic crash of the US or world economy under Pence. I wouldn’t worry about nuclear war breaking out.

With Trump, I legitimately worry about those things every day.

47
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:56:39am

re: #40 BlueGrl21

But even during Sandy we saw how GOPers who were supposedly sane had no problem blocking and delaying aid because they demanded offsets or refused to act without getting massive concessions - like repealing Obamacare, etc.

Pence falls into that category. There’s nothing to suggest that he wouldn’t go along with the GOPers who would refuse to provide aid without demanding offsets elsewhere.

So, imagine a hurricane along the Gulf Coast, a wildfire in the heartland, or multistate tornado outbreak, let alone a heat wave or a hurricane hitting NYC dead on. And the GOP will push their extremist agenda, all while denying climate change, under-funding NOAA, cutting funding to the USCG, and FEMA gets cuts too.

That way, not only is there less consensus on getting aid to those who need it, but the ability of the government to predict (NOAA) and respond (USCG, FEMA, etc.) are diminished - all to give the rich even more tax cuts.

48
Decatur Deb  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:57:56am

re: #43 (alpuz)

They’re both batshit crazy shitgibbons. Pence just has nicer hair.

At my age I cannot speak of accepting risk. I can only assign risk to my great-grandchild.
Better she face inevitable danger than the New Feudalism the GOP masters envision.

49
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:59:02am

re: #17 lawhawk

The only way in which Pence is better than Trump is that he’s reliably awful and evil with an efficiency that Trump knows nothing of. We know he’s going to impose all those extreme right wing and Christian theological laws that deprive minorities their rights - and with ruthless efficiency.

Trump is awful and evil and unreliable in anything he says or does.

From a foreign policy standpoint, you want reliability, so a guy in a coma is preferred to Trump who’s contemplated using nukes despite his advisers saying that’d be a bad idea.

But back to Pence.

[Embedded content]

This fucker is still trying to defend Trump as though Trump is going to help small businesses. There is absolutely nothing in either man’s background that suggests they’d help small businesses. Not their opposition to Obamacare, which gives people a chance to change jobs or get covered easier. Not their opposition to higher wages which can help businesses retain workers (and reduces churn and costs to train). Not the fact that Trump’s entire business history is littered with stiffing small businesses or suing small businesses that do business with Trump enterprises.

Trump has done nothing to help workers. He cares only of enriching himself, and his fortune was based on an inheritance (and daddy bailing him out, along with a variety of banks and creative accountants and tax lawyers).

Want to help small businesses…actually ALL businesses in America?

Go single payer.

Business would hold a holiday.

Think of what single payer, national healthcare would do for business and how that would free-up so much time and effort, etc.

50
(alpuz)  Mar 9, 2017 • 11:59:28am

There are no moderate Republican politicians at the national level. Hell, at the state level as far as I can tell. It’s been what, decades?

51
jaunte  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:00:27pm

“What country is this?”

52
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:00:36pm

re: #50 (alpuz)

There are no moderate Republican politicians at the national level. Hell, at the state level as far as I can tell. It’s been what, decades?

What was once a moderate or liberal Republican is now a conservative Dem.

53
Interesting Times  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:00:52pm

Pence would be the Bush admin on meth and steroids.

Trump will be…the Bannonesque version of that?

54
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:01:32pm

“the campaign…”

55
(alpuz)  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:01:46pm

re: #48 Decatur Deb

At my age I cannot speak of accepting risk. I can only assign risk to my great-grandchild.
Better she face inevitable danger than the New Feudalism the GOP masters envision.

I hear ya.

56
scottslemmons  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:03:54pm

Pence would be better in some ways — less likely to drop nukes on Ohio, for one. The problem is that right now, every Republican politician is pro-fascist. The only way out of the current problem is to eliminate every Republican from political power. I have a number of excellent ideas about how to do this, but every time I mention them, y’all complain about how expensive it’ll be to make that many knives.

57
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:04:11pm

The Republicans just seem to get worse and worse.

58
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:04:46pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

You could argue, in fact, that Pence would actually be worse because he knows how politics and government works, and he’d be much more efficient and effective at imposing the GOP’s radical right wing agenda than Trump, who’s even pissing off his allies with his bizarre behavior.

I don’t know. There are many Indianans that would say they are glad Pence is gone. You cant forget how badly he fucked up with his “religious freedom” law. So bad, the Indy Star newspaper ran that full front page “Fix This Now” editorial. I think that was a first for a major newspaper to dedicate the full front page to such large type headline and one editorial.

That was not good politics.

59
(alpuz)  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:05:53pm

re: #57 HappyWarrior

The Republicans just seem to get worse and worse.

When’s the last time you had the opportunity to hobnob w/ a young republican? It’s only gonna get worse.

60
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:06:42pm

The choice between Zaphod Beeblebrox and a Christian Mullah —I’d choose Zaphod.

Just my .02.

61
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:07:49pm

re: #59 (alpuz)

When’s the last time you had the opportunity to hobnob w/ a young republican? It’s only gonna get worse.

One of my good friends is a young Republican but we go way way back before either of us knew about politics. As for people who work at places like Heritage Foundation and stuff like that, I doubt we run in the same circles and go to the same bars, musical venues, restauarants, etc.

62
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:08:16pm

re: #49 ObserverArt

single-payer is the only choice.

Except the insurance companies would spend so much money fighting it, it wouldn’t be cost effective.

63
calochortus  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:08:45pm

re: #49 ObserverArt

Want to help small businesses…actually ALL businesses in America?

Go single payer.

Business would hold a holiday.

Think of what single payer, national healthcare would do for business and how that would free-up so much time and effort, etc.

THIS. My neighbor has a small business (45 or so employees) and has said more than once that he would be thrilled to just cut the government a check to take care of health insurance for his employees, and-not unnaturally-even more thrilled if it didn’t involve the business at all.

64
Franklin  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:08:46pm

re: #54 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“the campaign…”

Follow up should have asked his opinion on considering a SCOTUS nominee during a campaign.

65
The Ghost of Senator Incitatus  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:10:09pm

re: #51 jaunte

Case in point to the “this is not about 45 alone”—

The interactions between the GOP, the “pundit” class, and the press have been building to this point for years, with very little pushback.

A long time ago on this board, I observed that at some point, the conspiracism being used cynically by the GOP will lead to conspiracism being further brought on board…and that’s what’s been happening. These people are perfectly happy with hoaxes, and have been for a decade (at least). These people are perfectly happy with abuse of power, as long as it’s the people at the top of their hierarchy doing it. And they object to cranks only because they’re embarrassing to trot out in public

Trump is not some kind of drastic jump in an X/Y plot, he’s a smooth increase in line with past ones.

66
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:10:13pm

I have seen no sign from Trump that he will do anything other than sign on to whatever the GOP Congress passes. Sure, he makes noises otherwise, but they’re just that - noise. Whatever you may have thought he’d do that was better than Generic Republican, I would not expect him to do. As far as I can tell, that would be the same under Pence as under Trump.

Pence would almost certainly ditch the Breitbart posse in the WH. Bannon out, Miller out. That’s an unalloyed good. The attempt to destroy the Government, probably over.

Foreign policy - Bannon and Trump’s insane desire to destroy the EU and ally with Russia instead? Almost certainly over. Pence would probably be generic GOP FP, which, bad as it is, is not insane.

Reactivity - Trump is bugfuck insane, malignant narcissist, appallingly ignorant and mindbogglignly arrogant in that ignorance. Pence is just conventionally stupid and arrogant. Put it this way - Pence will disbelieve Science that disagrees with his Christianist worldview. Trump will disbelieve everything that disagrees with his whims.

I see Trump as an imminent danger to humanity itself. Pence? I think we’re more likely to survive.

But I could be full of shit.

67
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:10:45pm

re: #38 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

This is why Conservatives aren’t concerned about Russia.

They see war everywhere and the only way they see us beating the ME is WITH Russia as an ally.

seriously.

They are scared shitless of turbans.

68
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:11:43pm
69
(alpuz)  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:12:05pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I’m not talking about old friends. I’m talking about seriously active young republicans. You know, the kind who show up at demonstrations just be assholes.

They are awfully similar to the pricks that stand outside of Planned Parenthood just to make people’s lives shitty.

70
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:12:38pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

What was once a moderate or liberal Republican is now a conservative Dem.

I used to think Jim Webb (VA) was a moderate Repubican —but he is Conservative Democrat in realtiy.

71
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:13:40pm

re: #69 (alpuz)

Yeah, I’m not talking about old friends. I’m talking about seriously active young republicans. You know, the kind who show up at demonstrations just be assholes.

They are awfully similar to the pricks that stand outside of Planned Parenthood just to make people’s lives shitty.

Then nope. I can get along with libertarians despite our economic differences.

72
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:14:21pm

re: #70 Birth Control Works

I used to think Jim Webb (VA) was a moderate Repubican —but he is Conservative Democrat in realtiy.

He’s honestly more of a moderate Republican. Take it from a former constituent. Webb was a Republican a lot longer than he ever was a Dem.

73
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:16:13pm
75
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:19:49pm

re: #72 HappyWarrior

He’s honestly more of a moderate Republican. Take it from a former constituent. Webb was a Republican a lot longer than he ever was a Dem.

I’m not even sure what a Moderate Republican would be. I feel like, although we are as a nation far more polarized than at any time in my life, the polarization is almost all asymmetrical, that there may have been some elimination of Conservative Democrats, but that the party as a whole is largely where it’s been most of my adult life, whereas the Republicans have gone totally off the map.

76
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:20:46pm

The AtlanticYour Hot Hands Can Give Away Your Smartphone PIN

Thermal images reveal what parts of the screen were tapped, even after it’s left untouched for 30 seconds.

sci-fi future is here.

77
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:22:41pm

re: #76 Birth Control Works

The AtlanticYour Hot Hands Can Give Away Your Smartphone PIN

sci-fi future is here.

Well, shit - the greasy fingerprints will do that, too.

78
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:23:33pm
79
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:24:35pm

We are not alone:

80
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:25:52pm

re: #75 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m not even sure what a Moderate Republican would be. I feel like, although we are as a nation far more polarized than at any time in my life, the polarization is almost all asymmetrical, that there may have been some elimination of Conservative Democrats, but that the party as a whole is largely where it’s been most of my adult life, whereas the Republicans have gone totally off the map.

One thing’s for sure, calling Clinton a conservative Democrat was such a shit dishonest tactic.

81
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:26:06pm
82
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:26:22pm

re: #78 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Why not, worked for Marco Rubio.

83
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:27:11pm

re: #77 Blind Frog Belly White

Well, shit - the greasy fingerprints will do that, too.

wonder if a stylus could be used . ..

84
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:27:31pm

The Rothschild run CIA is trying to subvert the will of the people…

85
Rocky-in-Connecticut  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:27:47pm

Getting the Trumpy white working class to reliably vote Republican is the crowning achievement for over 40 years of constant indoctrination using cheap nationalism, racism, anti-gay furor, and overall hatred of brown people and “liberals.” Getting the working class to vote directly against their own economic self-interests by union-bashing, unregulated free trade ideology, and workplace safety regulation will be taught in civics and history classes for hundreds of years around the world.

86
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:28:17pm
87
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:28:20pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

One thing’s for sure, calling Clinton a conservative Democrat was such a shit dishonest tactic.

When you’re a Fascist, everyone to the left of you looks like a Bolshevik. When you’re a Bolshevik, everyone to the right of you looks like a Fascist.

88
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:28:34pm
89
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:29:23pm
90
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:29:34pm

re: #87 Blind Frog Belly White

When you’re a Fascist, everyone to the left of you looks like a Bolshevik. When you’re a Bolshevik, everyone to the right of you looks like a Fascist.

stuck in the middle again.

91
Timothy Watson  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:30:13pm

re: #89 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Trump is selecting a Bolton-style neocon for NATO ambassador?

92
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:30:33pm
93
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:30:39pm
94
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:31:02pm

re: #90 Birth Control Works

stuck in the middle again.

It’s better not to think about where we are stuck…

95
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:32:00pm

WOW. The #GOP’s reason to object to insurance covering prenatal care? “Why should men pay for it?” Watch: #Trumpcare #ProtectOurCare

96
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:32:19pm

re: #89 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I bet the RR flips their shit over this but for the wrong reasons.

97
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:33:18pm

re: #91 Timothy Watson

Trump is selecting a Bolton-style neocon for NATO ambassador?

Appears that way. But hey Hillary is worse. // BTW, I was thinking Re: Perriello that he’s someone that regardless of what happens this Spring with him and Ralph is someone that should be considered for a State dep’t role in the next Dem admin. Not SoS but perhaps Undersecretary for African Affairs.

98
austin_blue  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:33:23pm

re: #47 lawhawk

But even during Sandy we saw how GOPers who were supposedly sane had no problem blocking and delaying aid because they demanded offsets or refused to act without getting massive concessions - like repealing Obamacare, etc.

Pence falls into that category. There’s nothing to suggest that he wouldn’t go along with the GOPers who would refuse to provide aid without demanding offsets elsewhere.

So, imagine a hurricane along the Gulf Coast, a wildfire in the heartland, or multistate tornado outbreak, let alone a heat wave or a hurricane hitting NYC dead on. And the GOP will push their extremist agenda, all while denying climate change, under-funding NOAA, cutting funding to the USCG, and FEMA gets cuts too.

That way, not only is there less consensus on getting aid to those who need it, but the ability of the government to predict (NOAA) and respond (USCG, FEMA, etc.) are diminished - all to give the rich even more tax cuts.

Like this one?

cnn.com

99
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:33:42pm

re: #87 Blind Frog Belly White

When you’re a Fascist, everyone to the left of you looks like a Bolshevik. When you’re a Bolshevik, everyone to the right of you looks like a Fascist.

Yep.

100
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:34:07pm

re: #81 Birth Control Works

It’s all part of the GOP FTP program.

History of the world Part 1 - Fuck The Poor

101
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:34:39pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Why would men want the mothers of their children to get good prenatal care???////

102
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:35:13pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Party of dicks.

103
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:35:39pm

re: #101 Big Beautiful Door

Why would men want the mothers of their children to get good prenatal care???////

Because the GOP is the grown up version of Spanky’s Heman Woman Haters Club.

104
Timothy Watson  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:35:47pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Party of dicks.

I see what you did there…

105
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:36:25pm

re: #104 Timothy Watson

I see what you did there…

It works in so many ways.

106
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:37:05pm
107
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:38:32pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

I wouldn’t be so sure that Pence isn’t just as crazy as Trump. The real difference is that he’s a slicker politician, trained by the religious right to hide his agenda while fucking over women and poor people and minorities at every opportunity.

I’m not sure that’s better than a guy like Trump, whose narcissism at least makes him unable to hide anything. He boasts about his agenda.

This situation is so fucked up, I can hardly believe it’s happening. But it’s real, and America is in a shit load of trouble here any way you cut it.

Yes, it is in deep trouble.
It’s a process, and a legal one at that given the weight of the elections conclusion, EC or not. First Things First-Out Trump. 25th, Impeach, resignation whatever. Then we deal with Pence, as pence, and by that time with a better situation in the Senate and House. Every hike starts with it’s first step.

108
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:39:04pm

I bought Malala.

109
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:39:10pm

re: #89 Backwoods_Sleuth

With seven years as the United States Ambassador to the United Nations he’s likely one of the most qualified appointments coming from the administration yet…

110
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:39:29pm

re: #106 Nyet

[Embedded content]

I whaaaannnntt one!

111
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:41:03pm

re: #108 Birth Control Works

I bought Malala.

The latest Disney movie? My niece loves it. I hear the protagonist isn’t your typical Disney female protagaonist desperate to fall in love plus I hear it’s a great tribute to the Polynesian culture so her dad - my brother who is really into indigenous peoples and their cultures likes it as well.

112
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:42:13pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

The latest Disney movie? My niece loves it. I hear the protagonist isn’t your typical Disney female protagaonist desperate to fall in love plus I hear it’s a great tribute to the Polynesian culture so her dad - my brother who is really into indigenous peoples and their cultures likes it as well.

no, been binging British TV —New Tricks this week. British police drama combined wit Grumpy Old Men.

113
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:43:27pm

re: #106 Nyet

I don’t have a clue what that is, but I definitely know that feeling…

114
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:43:49pm

re: #113 FormerDirtDart

I don’t have a clue what that is, but I’ve definitely know that feeling…

Pallas cat

115
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:44:06pm

re: #110 Birth Control Works

I whaaaannnntt one!

Imagine having that on the leash when a group of College Republicans is sighted. “OK, World War III, see that group of insufferably smug pricks over there? Dinner time!”

116
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:44:45pm

re: #112 Birth Control Works

no, been binging British TV —New Tricks this week. British police drama combined wit Grumpy Old Men.

Oh oh I thought you meant Moana.

117
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:45:48pm

re: #115 EPR-radar

Imagine having that on the leash when a group of College Republicans is sighted. “OK, World War III, see that group of insufferably smug pricks over there? Dinner time!”

I wouldn’t mind a pet tiger.

If I could have the staff necessary to keep it healthy and safe.

Neighbor has one of those domesticated leopard cats. very cool looking and sweet with it’s owners.

118
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:46:08pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pallas cat

all I know is that’s definitely me after waking up at 4 AM after falling asleep on the couch watching TV

119
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:46:16pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

Oh oh I thought you meant Moana.

I meant Malala, the lego figure.

120
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:46:38pm
121
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:47:41pm

re: #119 Birth Control Works

I meant Malala, the lego figure.

Yeah I see that now.

122
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:48:03pm

re: #120 Backwoods_Sleuth

Allegedly someone began chopping people with an axe.

123
bratwurst  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:49:58pm

re: #120 Backwoods_Sleuth

Downmarket UK press reporting this as someone going crazy with an axe.

I was in the Düsseldorf station at least twice a week every week for years as I was working in the region. :(

124
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:50:05pm

re: #122 Nyet

Allegedly someone began chopping people with an axe.

125
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:50:42pm

re: #124 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Fuck. And of course our wingnuts will be like hurr hurr axes are just as dangerous as gunz.

126
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:50:47pm
127
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:51:29pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Fuck. And of course our wingnuts will be like hurr hurr axes are just as dangerous as gunz.

in the wrong hands …

128
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:52:03pm

re: #126 Birth Control Works

Justice Dept. refuses to back up Sean Spicer’s claim that Trump is not under investigation

and if he is, it is a political witch hunt spearheaded by deep state pedophile satanists who eat pineapple on pizza

129
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:52:50pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Fuck. And of course our wingnuts will be like hurr hurr axes are just as dangerous as gunz.

The distinction between “man with axe wounds multiple people…” and “man with gun kills multiple people…” is beyond comprehension for US gun nuts.

130
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:52:52pm

re: #127 Birth Control Works

Yep.

131
S'latch  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:53:07pm

In my opinion and estimation, the best–case scenario would be as follows:

1. The 2018 Midterms are successful for Democrats, by whatever degree possible.
2. Trump is impeached late in 2018 or 2019.
3. Pence has to run against a strong Democrat in 2020.

132
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:53:21pm

re: #129 EPR-radar

The distinction between “man with axe wounds multiple people…” and “man with gun kills multiple people…” is beyond comprehension for US gun nuts.

Exactly. There was a massive knife attack in China not long after Sandy Hook. That was awful too but none of those children lost their lives.

133
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:54:13pm

re: #131 S’latch

In my opinion and estimation, the best case scenario would be for Trump to be as follows:

1. The 2018 Midterms are successful for Democrats, by whatever degree possible.
2. Trump is impeached late in 2018 or 2019.
3. Pence has to run against a strong Democrat in 2020.

Sounds good to me. This year is important too. I say we retain the governorship in Virginia and flip it in New Jersey.

134
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:54:52pm

re: #131 S’latch

In my opinion and estimation, the best case scenario would be as follows:

1. The 2018 Midterms are successful for Democrats, by whatever degree possible.
2. Trump is impeached late in 2018 or 2019.
3. Pence has to run against a strong Democrat in 2020.

I wish that even one of those things were plausible or possible…

Sorry, I am already resigned to Trump staying afloat and winning again in 2020

135
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:56:11pm

re: #132 HappyWarrior

Exactly. There was a massive knife attack in China not long after Sandy Hook. That was awful too but none of those children lost their lives.

This is even more ridiculous than normal RWNJ reality-denial, because the essential feature of guns that gets the gun nuts all hot and bothered is their lethality.

136
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:56:49pm

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

137
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:58:53pm

re: #135 EPR-radar

This is even more ridiculous than normal RWNJ reality-denial, because the essential feature of guns that gets the gun nuts all hot and bothered is their lethality.

They love to brag about how deadly their gunz are until guns are no more dangerous than automobiles or knives.

138
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:59:03pm
139
Franklin  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:59:39pm

re: #108 Birth Control Works

I bought Malala.

I just bought Malala and Pankhurst. When my kids ask who they are, they will get a research assignment :)

They will get who Pankhurst is pretty quickly since they are big fans of Mary Poppins.

“Take heart for Mrs Pankhurst has been clapped in irons again!”
— Sister Suffragette

140
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 9, 2017 • 12:59:51pm

re: #136 The Vicious Babushka

+jBiNyzJSUAjCYGUonvUxvyddpFMQWdYxnheAkDJOOmcWYlD4/VnFYy/rg3Gewo6IKtUmHLWtnKuXcqDozvoFiErG8Lg+0umS+kYvjL930dQss8n42BHrmCar98kLQIz6F5E037yn/k9MuAsObY5XRmEfMeaq761yynwx3bKLrny4DjA9xGsG0aXu4Z+TRe+wUbziSk0ybZ7JiqxVMb59NRoWpg/39djTcH54TcM/I6IibZmi5DTabYqlP1t6pRKdoAaKVU9NZP7HvgjCnXMEe39alD69WGC0wJO6JGtBaQyumiKcwT2iw==

141
S'latch  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:00:33pm

Absolutely right. What a f*ckin’ situation to be in. Way to go, America.

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:01:38pm
143
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:02:02pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

Pallas cat

With those weird (for a cat) round pupils. Very cool.

144
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:02:09pm

re: #135 EPR-radar

This is even more ridiculous than normal RWNJ reality-denial, because the essential feature of guns that gets the gun nuts all hot and bothered is their lethality.

Yep. There are lots of lethal weapons besides guns; archery, spears, slings, clubs, swords, etc. Like guns, each of these still has its devotees. Nevertheless, every army in the world switched to guns as soon as it was able to do so. Tells you something.

145
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:02:18pm

re: #138 Backwoods_Sleuth

And just how many of THEM are influenced by Russia?

146
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:02:40pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

[WOW. The #GOP’s reason to object to insurance covering prenatal care? “Why should men pay for it?” Watch: #Trumpcare #ProtectOurCare

There is some fine GOP Family Values.

147
Kragar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:03:00pm
148
Charles Johnson  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:04:09pm
149
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:05:23pm
“It’s like playing with a jump rope, and somehow our arm goes around twice, but the rope only goes around once,” Yao told Nature earlier this year. In Wilczek’s version, the rope would oscillate all by itself. “It’s less weird than the first idea, but it’s still fricking weird.”

Shameless Pages Promotion

150
Single-handed sailor  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:05:50pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“Nevertheless, she persisted.”

151
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:05:56pm

Broke my own rule again. Tucker Carlson called Jorge Ramos a “blue eyed Mexican” and I read the comments. Man I’m sick of the bigotry in this country from many of my fellow Anglos. Stop being a douchebag to people who aren’t like you and stop acting like illegal immigrants are the worst thing ever when you probably don’t even know if your family immigrated legally or not or even if there was legal or illegal immigration when they did.

152
DodgerFan1988  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:06:16pm

Mike Pence is to Donald Trump is what Nicolas Maduro is to Hugo Chavez, or Kim Jong-un is to Kim Jong-il, or Raul Castro is to Fidel Castro.

153
Kragar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:06:49pm
154
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:07:10pm

Pence is worse domestically, Trump is worse on the FP. I think it boils down to this.

155
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:07:12pm

re: #136 The Vicious Babushka

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

156
DuckDharma  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:07:19pm

re: #138 Backwoods_Sleuth

Even some Democrats on the Intelligence Committee now quietly admit, after several briefings and preliminary inquiries, they don’t expect to find evidence of active, informed collusion between the Trump campaign and known Russian intelligence operatives, though investigators have only just begun reviewing raw intelligence. Among the Intelligence Committee’s rank and file, there’s a tangible frustration over what one official called “wildly inflated” expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation.

Since the probe was first announced in December — days after the FBI and CIA told Congress they believed the Kremlin had worked to elect Trump — political infighting has fundamentally shifted its mandate. Instead of a surgically precise examination of the raw intelligence that led US agencies to conclude the Kremlin attempted to tilt the election, the Intelligence Committee investigation has fast become the catch-all for any politician’s lingering questions related to Moscow. Now, several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives, the investigation will be seen as a sham.

“I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations,” a second official said.

Wonderful.

157
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:07:29pm
158
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:07:56pm

re: #153 Kragar

[Embedded content]

What do you expect? He’s Dick Cheney’s heir. Fucking asshole idneed.

159
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:08:12pm

re: #156 DuckDharma

Been saying it all along. This whole thing is going to be whitewashed.

160
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:08:14pm

re: #154 Nyet

Pence is worse domestically, Trump is worse on the FP. I think this boils down to this.

Yes, you’d be right about that.

161
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:08:20pm

Pence would not have Bannon in his ear, that, in and of itself, makes him better than Trump. He would also, presumably, be bound by normal American political traditions that Trump does not know or care about, which again, would make him better than Trump. And as everyone else has pointed out, he’d be less inclined to launch a nuclear weapon because someone didn’t stop to shake his hand. He would also have the power to appoint more qualified cabinet secretaries than Trump has thus far.

Are his policies illiberal? Yes, and that is a problem, but it is a magnitude of order less bad than what Trump poses.

Lastly, a Pence Administration would likely be historically weak due to its start following impeachment. He would have much less political capital to work with, and may (perhaps I’m being naive or just overly optimistic on this point) decide to not push too far to the right out of a desire to “heal the nation’s wounds, and bring us together.”

162
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:08:45pm

re: #154 Nyet

Pence is worse domestically, Trump is worse on the FP. I think this boils down to this.

DT does not seem to have much of a problem with gays and would generally want to leave gender and family issues alone due to his own dodgy background on the matter.

For Pence they would all be a major priority.

163
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:09:15pm

re: #136 The Vicious Babushka

Ro236koMV56YP2UnmE68pOWcGl1tj4q9a5fbhiYjlkYjCd9iotDt+WnuItSwwxOAPfRqBg+Obpk=

164
jeffreyw  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:09:27pm

re: #27 FormerDirtDart

I’m hungry

[Embedded content]

Imgur

165
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:09:40pm

from my fb:

G.O.P. Unveils Own Health-Care Web Site, emergencyroom.gov

166
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:09:41pm

re: #162 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

DT does not seem to have much of a problem with gays and would generally want to leave gender and family issues alone due to his own dodgy background on the matter.

For Pence they would all be a major priority.

Wouldn’t go that far. He definitely has the same transophobia that Pence would. I do agree, it’s not an as big priority for him though.

167
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:10:50pm

Pence or Trump is the proverbial punch to the nose or kick to the nads.

168
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:12:15pm

re: #162 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Everyone has to choose their preferable evil subjectively. For me Pence has become a more acceptable monster, and I fully acknowledge that not having to live in the US with the possible consequences of his presidency plays a role here.

169
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:12:53pm

re: #134 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I wish that even one of those things were plausible or possible…

Sorry, I am already resigned to Trump staying afloat and winning again in 2020

Your resignation is not accepted. The resistance team needs you!

170
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:15:12pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Offa my lawn!”

171
CongoJack  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:16:42pm

re: #168 Nyet

If Pence was Pres. then I would at least be able to sleep without fear of nuclear annihilation. Also things seem not to stick to Trump - I assume some of the bullshit would stick to Pence (read: some iota of responsibility).

172
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:16:54pm

re: #169 ObserverArt

Your resignation is not accepted. The resistance team needs you!

Kylie Minogue - Your Disco Needs You (HD)

173
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:17:30pm

re: #171 CongoJack

If Pence was Pres. then I would at least be able to sleep without fear of nuclear annihilation. Also things seem not to stick to Trump - I assume some of the bullshit would stick to Pence (read: some iota of responsibility).

Pence is also a lot less charismatic. He might not be able to control the cult of personality that Trump created.

174
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:18:02pm

Who knows though. I’m just sick to my stomach knowing that we’re not even two months into Trump’s presidency and it’s a total mess.

175
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:18:29pm

re: #162 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

DT does not seem to have much of a problem with gays and would generally want to leave gender and family issues alone due to his own dodgy background on the matter.

For Pence they would all be a major priority.

and funerals for miscarriages.

176
Elaine1  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:19:37pm

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

177
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:19:57pm

re: #148 Charles Johnson

Charles Johnson ✔ @Green_Footballs
This hateful abusive asshole is a perfect representative of the Trump admin. He’s filling all his govt positions with assholes. @Gus_802
4:03 PM - 9 Mar 2017

(Not directed at you or Gus…but to this too-often repeated phrase)

“He is doing what he said he was going to do!”

178
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:20:24pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

That would be up to SCOTUS

179
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:20:32pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Pence is also a lot less charismatic. He might not be able to control the cult of personality that Trump created.

Not a chance. Pence was chosen precisely because he is an elected politician and has clout with the wingnuts, not out of any reflection on his personality or charisma. The man makes Mitt Romney look human.

180
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:20:48pm

re: #175 Backwoods_Sleuth

So, spotting could require a funeral. Because many women might get pregnant and not even know it for weeks, but miscarry before even those OTC pregnancy tests show a result.

It’s not bad enough that a woman miscarries, you want to stigmatize it with a fucking funeral? The GOP can go fuck themselves with a rusty pitchfork sideways.

181
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:21:05pm

re: #134 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I wish that even one of those things were plausible or possible…

Sorry, I am already resigned to Trump staying afloat and winning again in 2020

There are so many Trump scandals already blowing up its hard to imagine him staying afloat for a re-election bid. Plus his administration is a complete clusterfuck, with it looking like there is a good chance they will fail in their top legislative priority of repealing Obamacare.

182
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:21:55pm

re: #179 thedopefishlives

Not a chance. Pence was chosen precisely because he is an elected politician and has clout with the wingnuts, not out of any reflection on his personality or charisma. The man makes Mitt Romney look human.

Yeah he barely won election to being Indiana’s governor in the first place.

183
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:22:28pm

re: #181 Big Beautiful Door

Flip side - his support among GOP is still around 80%.
Overall support is still around 40%.

Neither is normal, not for someone with these kinds of scandals.

184
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:22:30pm

re: #181 Big Beautiful Door

There are so many Trump scandals already blowing up its hard to imagine him staying afloat for a re-election bid. Plus his administration is a complete clusterfuck, with it looking like there is a good chance they will fail in their top legislative priority of repealing Obamacare.

Dems are going to need a strong candidate in 2020 though. Who that is? I have no idea and I’m not particularly heavily focused on that now anyhow.

185
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:22:47pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Pence is also a lot less charismatic. He might not be able to control the cult of personality that Trump created.

Trump’s cult of personality would be turned against Pence and the GOP (no matter what, there will need to be Republican votes, at least in the Senate, if impeachment becomes real). This is the problem the GOP leaders in Congress know that they face - if they impeach Trump (which, quite frankly, would be the patriotic thing to do), they will be fighting a two front political war: emboldened Democrats/progressives from the left and Trump’s alt-right crazies from the far right. They will not be able to accomplish anything without help from one side or the other, and they may not find any help from either of them.

186
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:23:08pm

re: #183 lawhawk

Flip side - his support among GOP is still around 80%.
Overall support is still around 40%.

Neither is normal, not for someone with these kinds of scandals.

Anyone know what Nixon’s support with the GOP was at various points in 73 through his eventual resignation in August of 74?

187
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:23:14pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Yeah he barely won election to being Indiana’s governor in the first place.

He won election to Indiana’s governorship on the strength of his being a Republican and a religious wingnut. Like I said before, he is savvy enough to have gotten elected, but in Indiana that’s a fairly low bar.

188
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:24:09pm

re: #187 thedopefishlives

He won election to Indiana’s governorship on the strength of his being a Republican and a religious wingnut. Like I said before, he is savvy enough to have gotten elected, but in Indiana that’s a fairly low bar.

Correct. A lot of the hardcore wingnuts like Coulter hate him too though I’m sure they’d accept him if it meant stopping any Democrat.

189
CongoJack  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:24:23pm

My deeper fear about this administration would be the hundreds of people they put in different departments that will work ever so hard to screw with people for politically motivated reasons and these same individuals attempting to destroy (even after Trump is gone) the agencies they work for.

190
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:24:27pm

re: #180 lawhawk

So, spotting could require a funeral. Because many women might get pregnant and not even know it for weeks, but miscarry before even those OTC pregnancy tests show a result.

the actual excuse was that women who undergo abortions will lie and claim they miscarried, so Pence just included everything in the funeral law.

But it was all about dignity for the unborn and not punishing women…

191
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:25:46pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

No. Once the votes in the electoral college are cast (the only votes that really matter for the presidency), and read/tallied in Congress by the sitting Vice-President, it’s done.

Moreover, how would one even prove Clinton would have been the rightful victor? Short of finding voting machines with inaccurate counts, the votes were cast and counted, voters’ remorse isn’t grounds for overturning an election, at least not in the US.

192
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:26:07pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

Gallup has the overall trend, but let me see if I can find polling broken down by party.

193
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:26:39pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

No, because even if say it is proven that the election was “hacked” (which I don’t think anyone credible claims), the EC still voted and Trump still took an oath, so whatever happened before that wouldn’t matter legally as far as the matter of who the president is is concerned.

Worse though, the claims about meddling are limited to influencing through various propaganda channels. There is no law that says that mere external propaganda influences render an otherwise sound democratic process nil and void.

194
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:27:16pm

re: #192 lawhawk

Gallup has the overall trend, but let me see if I can find polling broken down by party.

Thanks. Of course, in those days, there were more sane Republicans anyhow. Impeaching Nixon and getting Ford was a luxury we wouldn’t have in our lifetime since Ford was not only ethical but also sane politically. It’s a good thing Agnew got himself in trouble.

195
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:27:52pm

re: #193 Nyet

No, because even if say it is proven that the election was “hacked” (which I don’t think anyone credible claims), the EC still voted and Trump still took an oath, so whatever happened before that wouldn’t matter legally as far as the matter of who the president is is concerned.

Worse though, the claims about meddling are limited to influencing through various propaganda channels. There is no law that says that mere external propaganda influences render an otherwise sound democratic process nil and void.

Yep, means we’d be stuck with Pence or whoever unfortunately. It is what it is unfortunately.

196
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:09pm

re: #191 KGxvi

No. Once the votes in the electoral college are cast (the only votes that really matter for the presidency), and read/tallied in Congress by the sitting Vice-President, it’s done.

Moreover, how would one even prove Clinton would have been the rightful victor? Short of finding voting machines with inaccurate counts, the votes were cast and counted, voters’ remorse isn’t grounds for overturning an election, at least not in the US.

Should Drumpf have been shown to have materially benefited from a verifiably rigged election, I suspect the course of action would simply be a new election. I don’t think there’s any precedent or Constitutional case for this.

197
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:18pm

I just feel awful because so many old women voted for HRC hoping for the first woman president and they should have gotten her.

198
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:27pm

Temperature hit 70F in the Backwoods today.
There is SNOW in tonight’s forecast, and tomorrow night’s low is forecast to be 19F.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

199
wrenchwench  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:32pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Welcome, hatchling.

200
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:51pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

No. And welcome!

201
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:28:55pm

re: #196 thedopefishlives

Should Drumpf have been shown to have materially benefited from a verifiably rigged election, I suspect the course of action would simply be a new election. I don’t think there’s any precedent or Constitutional case for this.

There’s no precedent. There was a bit of a crisis IIRC when William Henry Harrison became the first President to die in office.

202
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:29:53pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

Temperature hit 70F in the Backwoods today.
There is SNOW in tonight’s forecast, and tomorrow night’s low is forecast to be 19F.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

The low tonight is supposed to be 4 degrees F. FOUR.

203
wrenchwench  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:29:59pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

I just feel awful because so many old women voted for HRC hoping for the first woman president and they should have gotten her.

Thanks.

—old woman

204
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:30:59pm

re: #203 wrenchwench

Thanks.

—old woman

Heh I was actually talking about women like my grandmother who turns 90 this year.

205
wrenchwench  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:32:01pm

re: #180 lawhawk

So, spotting could require a funeral. Because many women might get pregnant and not even know it for weeks, but miscarry before even those OTC pregnancy tests show a result.

It’s not bad enough that a woman miscarries, you want to stigmatize it with a fucking funeral? The GOP can go fuck themselves with a rusty pitchfork sideways.

Monthly funerals! Gotta cover them all, even if ‘God’ or Nature took them out!

206
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:33:44pm

re: #172 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Video

Uggh! Why are you so cruel!!!

207
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:33:55pm

re: #196 thedopefishlives

Should Drumpf have been shown to have materially benefited from a verifiably rigged election, I suspect the course of action would simply be a new election. I don’t think there’s any precedent or Constitutional case for this.

I believe I read somewhere recently that had Johnson been convicted, Congress would have tried to set a special election for president. However, I don’t believe that would have been constitutional then, and based on the subsequent Amendments dealing with the presidency, I am strongly of the opinion that it would not be constitutional now. The Constitution clearly sets term lengths for the president and members of Congress, I suspect to avoid situations like you see in Europe with early elections.

208
wrenchwench  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:34:41pm

re: #204 HappyWarrior

Heh I was actually talking about women like my grandmother who turns 90 this year.

Working on it. I may have another shot at having a female president. I hope she has a great birthday.

209
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:34:52pm

re: #207 KGxvi

I believe I read somewhere recently that had Johnson been convicted, Congress would have tried to set a special election for president. However, I don’t believe that would have been constitutional then, and based on the subsequent Amendments dealing with the presidency, I am strongly of the opinion that it would not be constitutional now. The Constitution clearly sets term lengths for the president and members of Congress, I suspect to avoid situations like you see in Europe with early elections.

I forgotten about Johnson nearly being impeached. That would have been quite an interesting situation.

210
blueraven  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:35:41pm

ugh. Not helpful, Sally…weather is not climate.

211
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:36:00pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

Working on it. I may have another shot at having a female president. I hope she has a great birthday.

Thanks. She’s still pretty sharp too. My only grandparent I have left. I thought about her and my Nana yesterday for Int’l women’s day. Two totally different women but very influential to me.

212
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:36:16pm

re: #207 KGxvi

I believe I read somewhere recently that had Johnson been convicted, Congress would have tried to set a special election for president. However, I don’t believe that would have been constitutional then, and based on the subsequent Amendments dealing with the presidency, I am strongly of the opinion that it would not be constitutional now. The Constitution clearly sets term lengths for the president and members of Congress, I suspect to avoid situations like you see in Europe with early elections.

The thing of this is that, unlike an impeachment where an otherwise fairly elected government exists, this would call into question the legitimacy of the entire Administration. Our Constitution and case law is not set up to cover such a case, I think. It’s not something we really should have to contemplate, but… here we are!

213
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:36:20pm

re: #210 blueraven

ugh. Not helpful, Sally…weather is not climate.

[Embedded content]

Yep.

214
lawhawk  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:36:33pm

This, courtesy of the party of personal responsibility. Demand women carry to term. Demand funerals for miscarriages. Demand that men not pay for prenatal care.

The GOP is seriously fucked in the collective head. They’ve bought into their baffling BS that they don’t have the slightest clue about how any of this works. And millions of people have swallowed this nonsense and continue to vote these clueless know-nothings into office because they think that tax cuts for the rich will somehow help them all while their education system falls apart, roads/infrastructure crumble, and the rich get richer.

215
HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:37:26pm

re: #214 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

This, courtesy of the party of personal responsibility. Demand women carry to term. Demand funerals for miscarriages. Demand that men not pay for prenatal care.

The GOP is seriously fucked in the collective head. They’ve bought into their baffling BS that they don’t have the slightest clue about how any of this works. And millions of people have swallowed this nonsense and continue to vote these clueless know-nothings into office because they think that tax cuts for the rich will somehow help them all while their education system falls apart, roads/infrastructure crumble, and the rich get richer.

Women have to pay for Viagra coverage for men. You’d think that any man who’s a father would be fine with prenatal care being covered but then again the GOP is a party of selfish dicks who only care about their miserable selves.

216
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:38:51pm

re: #212 thedopefishlives

The thing of this is that, unlike an impeachment where an otherwise fairly elected government exists, this would call into question the legitimacy of the entire Administration. Our Constitution and case law is not set up to cover such a case, I think. It’s not something we really should have to contemplate, but… here we are!

The constitutional path, in such a case, would be impeachment of both the president and vice-president. Upon the conviction of each (and I guess, technically, the VP’s conviction would have to be entered first), then the Speaker would be sworn in as president. And, as the new president, he or she would have the inherent power to remove any appointee who serves at the pleasure of the president.

217
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:38:57pm

hahahahahahaaaaa

218
Kragar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:40:18pm
219
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:40:38pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

Temperature hit 70F in the Backwoods today.
There is SNOW in tonight’s forecast, and tomorrow night’s low is forecast to be 19F.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

The March Lion is off his game this year. He can’t remember if he came in or is going out.

I blame Trump.

220
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:42:28pm

re: #214 lawhawk

and the GOP DonTCare plan doesn’t include maternity delivery costs, and once that baby is born it’s bootstraps time for the little moocher, especially if there are any neo-natal complications.

221
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:43:42pm

re: #216 KGxvi

The constitutional path, in such a case, would be impeachment of both the president and vice-president. Upon the conviction of each (and I guess, technically, the VP’s conviction would have to be entered first), then the Speak would be sworn in as president. And, as the new president, he or she would have the inherent power to remove any appointee who serves at the pleasure of the president.

That’s an interesting take on it. I suspect you may be right.

222
Elaine1  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:46:22pm

re: #200 Big Beautiful Door

Hello to all! Yes, I’m new here.

Well, if answer to my question is a resounding NO, than I must say, I’d take Tramp over Pence, or any other Republican. At least Tramp is entertaining.

223
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:46:56pm
224
austin_blue  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:47:13pm

re: #218 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And gone straight to hell.

“What, Joe, you’re surprised?”- Satan

225
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:47:50pm

Hmm.

226
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:48:50pm
227
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:49:27pm

re: #210 blueraven

Fucked up weather may be related to climate change.

228
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:49:55pm

re: #222 Elaine1

Hello to all! Yes, I’m new here.

Well, if answer to my question is a resounding NO, than I must say, I’d take Tramp over Pence, or any other Republican. At least Tramp is entertaining.

Sorry, I am not laughing.

229
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:50:01pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

Temperature hit 70F in the Backwoods today.
There is SNOW in tonight’s forecast, and tomorrow night’s low is forecast to be 19F.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

Same here. 70 today, 3-5” of snow tomorrow.

230
thedopefishlives  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:51:10pm

re: #222 Elaine1

Hello to all! Yes, I’m new here.

Well, if answer to my question is a resounding NO, than I must say, I’d take Tramp over Pence, or any other Republican. At least Tramp is entertaining.

Entertaining in the same way a maniac waving a gun around during a hostage situation is entertaining.

231
Nyet  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:51:36pm

The world goes to the dogs, people are gonna die. What a joke, right? /

232
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:51:42pm

re: #206 ObserverArt

Uggh! Why are you so cruel!!!

Hey, Kylie gets an eternal pass. Very cool woman.

233
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:51:56pm

Rand, just STFU

234
bratwurst  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:52:15pm

re: #227 gocart mozart

Fucked up weather may be related to climate change.

Yes, but observations of this type are no more helpful in proving climate change than dunderheaded observations like this are helpful in disproving climate change.

235
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:52:22pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

Nope. Anything that takes down Trump leaves the Constitutional succession intact, save for co conspirators.

236
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:54:14pm

NEW VIDEO: Remember ‘The Speech’? The day everybody agreed Trump became presidential? The speech didn’t AGE WELL pic.twitter.com

237
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:54:53pm

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel

Yep. There are lots of lethal weapons besides guns; archery, spears, slings, clubs, swords, etc. Like guns, each of these still has its devotees. Nevertheless, every army in the world switched to guns as soon as it was able to do so. Tells you something.

That even happened in Japan, and 19th century Japanese warriors were very fond of their swords.

238
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:58:35pm

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel

Yep. There are lots of lethal weapons besides guns; archery, spears, slings, clubs, swords, etc. Like guns, each of these still has its devotees. Nevertheless, every army in the world switched to guns as soon as it was able to do so. Tells you something.

My military historian professor in college made the argument that the switch came a bit too early because people were so impressed with the psychological effects of all that smoke and noise. His point was that technically longbow men outclassed musket men in range, accuracy and rate of fire until sometime between the American Revolution and the Civil War.

239
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:58:56pm

re: #171 CongoJack

If Pence was Pres. then I would at least be able to sleep without fear of nuclear annihilation. Also things seem not to stick to Trump - I assume some of the bullshit would stick to Pence (read: some iota of responsibility).

Trump is uniquely dangerous. He is the charismatic leader the pig people have been awaiting for decades.

240
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:59:23pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

No.

241
FormerDirtDart  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:59:24pm
242
austin_blue  Mar 9, 2017 • 1:59:29pm

re: #234 bratwurst

Yes, but observations of this type are no more helpful in proving climate change than dunderheaded observations like this are helpful in disproving climate change.

Schalke1-1 M’gladbach, at home. Never played Huntelaar. Giving up that home goal hurts.

243
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:01:56pm

re: #218 Kragar

Wikipedia:

The term “reparative therapy” has been used as a synonym for conversion therapy generally, but Jack Drescher writes that strictly speaking it refers to a specific kind of therapy associated with Elizabeth Moberly and Joseph Nicolosi. Nicolosi’s book Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality was published in 1991. The term reparative refers to Nicolosi’s postulate that same-sex attraction is a person’s rational and unconscious attempt to “self-repair” feelings of inferiority.

Most mental health professionals and the American Psychological Association consider reparative therapy discredited, but it is still practiced by some. In 2014 the Republican Party of Texas endorsed “counseling, which offers reparative therapy and treatment” in their party platform. (emphasis added)

Of course. If it’s cruel and theocratic, the yokel GOP is on board with it.

244
bratwurst  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:02:18pm

re: #242 austin_blue

Schalke1-1 M’gladbach, at home. Never played Huntelaar. Giving up that home goal hurts.

Unfortunately, there is still some danger of league relegation. Otherwise, they should be throwing everything into a deep run in Europa League to make up for the revenue from European play they won’t be getting next season.

The last year has been the least fun I’ve had following this club in the 20+ years I have been a fan.

245
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:03:51pm
246
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:03:57pm

re: #214 lawhawk

Someone has surely asked these GOP fuckwits why women should pay for health insurance coverage of boner pills for men.

Honest answers from the GOP on this point would be fascinating, and I’m sure they’d all be nauseating variants of ‘women should pay for the boner pills out of gratitude for the resulting hard-ons’

247
MOFO Beaner  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:05:02pm

re: #240 EPR-radar

I somewhat disagree. The constitution is silent in these circumstanses but that doesn’t mean there is no equitable remedy. Particularly if it was proven that the voting machines were hacked or similar.

248
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:06:26pm

OT
Any Wilco fans with a bunch of spare change? They are selling some of their gear.
Whoever buys me Tweedy’s ‘67 Tele gets updings for life…

249
JordanRules  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:08:17pm

re: #222 Elaine1

Welcome! But I don’t find this entertaining at all.

250
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:09:40pm

re: #248 Jebediah, RBG

OT
Any Wilco fans with a bunch of spare change? They are selling some of their gear.
Whoever buys me Tweedy’s ‘67 Tele gets updings for life…

That’s a nice one, for sure! I’d like to get my hands on Nels’ Revelator.

251
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:10:37pm
252
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:12:11pm

re: #247 MOFO Beaner

I somewhat disagree. The constitution is silent in these circumstanses but that doesn’t mean there is no equitable remedy. Particularly if it was proven that the voting machines were hacked or similar.

Part of me would dearly like to see the Republicans kicked out of office en masse for official malfeasance by SCOTUS acting as a court of equity, but it’s a total fantasy.

1-10) It won’t happen

11-20) if it did, the wingnuts would be given a legitimate cause for outrage and grievances. That’s more trouble than it’s worth.

Like it or not, the only possible solution to this mess is political. The Democrats simply must become more competitive in Congress and at the state level.

253
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:12:40pm

254
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:12:54pm

re: #250 makeitstop

Yup, that too!
I wonder how much more they will end up going for based on who owned them… a ‘67 Tele wouldn’t be very cheap to begin with.

255
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:12:58pm

Sportsball comment warning.

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

256
Jay C  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:14:00pm

Late to the thread (out shopping in front of tomorrow’s forecast rain/sleet/snow-fest), but I thought of at least possible one silver lining to a Pence Presidency. If Mike Dense does take over after Donald The Talking Yam gets booted out in what we hope would be disgrace, I’m thinking that he would inherit not only a shitshow of a dysfunctional White House, but also (presumably) a damaged Republican “brand” - a Party horrifically divided between the sane and insane (i.e. anti- and pro-Trump) factions, and would end up a less-competent version of Gerald Ford: i.e., no matter how hard he tried, his party would lose most of its marginal/undecided/indifferent support (the wingers are unfortunately hopeless), and Democrats would have a vastly better chance in the next election.

257
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:15:14pm
258
ObserverArt  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:16:13pm

re: #232 makeitstop

Hey, Kylie gets an eternal pass. Very cool woman.

That may be…but the song. Cruel.

259
makeitstop  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:16:26pm

re: #254 Jebediah, RBG

Yup, that too!
I wonder how much more they will end up going for based on who owned them… a ‘67 Tele wouldn’t be very cheap to begin with.

Yeah, I’ve got a ‘68 that was pretty pricey. Its saving grace (besides the fact that it’s just a totally bitchin’ Tele) is that it continued to appreciate after I got it.

They’ll probably ask a lot for it, despite it not being completely original. I don’t think that bridge is factory installed, although the Bigsby may have been.

260
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:16:29pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The reason Trump is so interested in Yemen is it represents a proxy war against Iran. It’s a wedge he hopes to drive into the region and widen into open conflict that spikes oil prices. The Russia election interference investigations have only made this war more and more imperative, because they’ve rendered his other primary option for rewarding Putin, easing sanctions, politically impossible.

261
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:18:25pm

re: #253 Birth Control Works

Reading up on this in wikipedia, I came across this gem of a court case name: “United States v. One Package of Japanese Pessaries”

Too long for a band name, but still hilarious.

262
Birth Control Works  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:19:32pm

bbl

263
Charles Johnson  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:19:39pm
264
b.d.  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:19:55pm
265
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:20:28pm

The flag was attached by a Navy Seal who, according to an interview the Department of the Navy conducted with him on Feb. 3, “made the decision to place the flag on the Humvee without discussing it with anyone in the convoy.”

“He placed it on the Humvee on Friday before departing,” the documents stated. “He did not know who owned the flag because he has bought many campaign flags for the members of his Troop. He was unaware of any regulations that flying the campaign flag would have violated. [The man who attached the flag] drove home for the weekend and was not with the convoy while it transited.”

The Navy Seals group was traveling from Ft. Knox to Muscatatuck Urban Training Center (MUTC) in Butlerville, Ind., roughly 110 miles away, the documents stated. The convoy commander, unnamed in the report, traveled with the convoy on Jan. 29 at 11 a.m. This commander was responsible for inspecting all the vehicles prior to departure and was aware the flag was on the vehicle.

“[The convoy commander] was also aware of the rules precluding Department of Defense (DoD) endorsement of political candidates during an election,” the documents stated. “However, he believed that flying the flag was not inappropriate since the election was over and since the candidate was now the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.”

they were “unaware”. Navy Seals were “unaware” of regulations….

sigh

266
blueraven  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:21:20pm

re: #227 gocart mozart

Fucked up weather may be related to climate change.

Sure, and if she had noted the increasing frequency of abrupt dramatic weather changes…that would be fine.

267
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:21:30pm
268
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:21:47pm

re: #263 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

This is the worst possible outcome for Trump. Makes it clear he flagrantly lied about Obama tapping his phones while also establishing that the FBI thinks there is cause for concern about secret communications between Trump Tower and Russia’s Alfa Bank.

269
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:21:55pm
270
Cheechako  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:23:55pm

re: #176 Elaine1

Here’s the question I have. If it gets proven that Tramp/Pence ticket have won because of Russia’s meddling into the US election, where Hillary Clinton would have been a rightful victor otherwise, would there be any chance and legal way for her to claim a presidency?

Actually there is one way that Hillary could become President but it’s so far out that it’s off the charts and even then, even more far out.

If, and that’s a great big IF, the Republicans want to impeach trump/Pence, they will need Democrat votes in the Senate for conviction (convection requires a 2/3’s of the members present to vote for conviction).

In my wild scenario, the Democrats would require the House Republicans to appoint Hillary as Speaker before they will agree to vote for impeachment of trump/Pence. Thus, Hillary could be elevated to POTUS.

Again so far out as to be completely implausible.

271
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:24:35pm

Not the Onion reagan.com

You believe having control of your privacy is important. You also believe Ronald Reagan was the greatest president in your lifetime - a man who honored the Constitution and the Rights expressed therein.
We agree, and that’s why we started this company - to give you the privacy you deserve and the ability to share the Reagan name with every email you send.
At reagan.com we respect your privacy and your freedom to decide who has access to your emails. To that end, our mission is to provide you with an affordable, secure, private email service that is accessible on all of your devices. Free email services are not truly free when your privacy is compromised.
reagan.com was founded through the efforts of The Reagan Group and a private venture management firm.
To ensure the security of reagan.com, and the privacy of our customers, it is our policy not to disclose the names of the partners involved.

272
MsJ  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:24:45pm

re: #42 A wild WITHAK appeared!

I tend to agree.

If Trump is ousted, Bannon goes with him; that alone is enough for me to prefer President Pence/Ryan.

The country is fucked no matter. Better it be fucked with out throwing nuclear anhilation into the mix.

Does anyone think Trump is better? Is not the same Ryan agenda being passed now? So… How much more badly will Pence fuck us than Bannon?

273
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:25:17pm

re: #270 Cheechako

Again so far out as to be completely implausible.

Give me a teleportation device and a gigantic fucking prison on the Moon and I’ll make it happen.

274
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:25:59pm
275
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:26:06pm

re: #270 Cheechako

Actually there is one way that Hillary could become President but it’s so far out that it’s off the charts and even then, even more far out.

If, and that’s a great big IF, the Republicans want to impeach trump/Pence, they will need Democrat votes in the Senate for conviction (convection requires a 2/3’s of the members present to vote for conviction).

In my wild scenario, the Democrats would require the House Republicans to appoint Hillary as Speaker before they will agree to vote for impeachment of trump/Pence. Thus, Hillary could be elevated to POTUS.

Again so far out as to be completely implausible.

Every last Republican in Congress would happily see the US destroyed by civil war or by a foreign invader before agreeing to that, so this scenario is indeed implausible.

276
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:27:21pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

My military historian professor in College made the argument that the switch came a bit too early because people were so impressed with the psychological effects of all that smoke and noise. His point was that technically longbow men outclassed musket men in range, accuracy and rate of fire until sometime between the American Revolution and the Civil War.

You can make a raw recruit into a reasonable musket shooter in a couple weeks. The ability to repeatedly draw and accurately loose arrows from a 100lb+ pull warbow takes years of constant practice. England was only able to field large groups of archers by requiring all men and boys to own a bow and arrows, and practice weekly at the butts. This made the English Yeomanry like the Militia of colonial America - a trained, armed citizenry, which is not something most European monarchies would tolerate.

Casting a couple bullets takes minutes and some lead. Fletching arrows is much more complex. First you have to split the wood down to size, then plane the corners off, working your way down to something like round, then you need to cut a taper at the head end, and a nock at the nock end. Arrowheads take time to forge, then need to be attached. Feathers must be split and either the base ground down or peeled off before being glued to the shaft, then wrapped with string through the vanes.

Muskets could be made in factories. Wooden longbows need to be tillered individually, from wood of a quality that is difficult to find. Trees must be cut down and staves split out within a short time to dry properly. Once dry, the stave must be reduced to rough bow shape before tillering even begins. Tillering itself is a skill that takes time to learn.

Bowstrings take considerable skill to twist up properly, and that’s leaving aside the need to grow flax, ret it, crush and spin it into thread.

Bullets from a musket will blow right through armor that will deflect most arrows.

Overall, by the 18th Century, certainly by the late 18th century, the longbow was thoroughly outmoded as a weapon of war.

277
MsJ  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:27:39pm

re: #51 jaunte

[Embedded content]

“What country is this?”

Unitedstatistan?

278
Ace Rothstein  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:28:30pm

re: #255 ObserverArt

I think the Browns are going to release him.

279
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:28:33pm
280
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:28:35pm

re: #273 goddamnedfrank

Give me a teleportation device and a gigantic fucking prison on the Moon and I’ll make it happen.

I’d love to see Paul Ryan, Donald Trump, Peter Thiel, the Koch brothers and Mitch McConnell exiled to the moon along with the pig people. Wouldn’t that be a fun circus to lead, without any civilizing effects from having liberals in their ‘society’?

281
CongoJack  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:30:08pm

re: #272 MsJ

The country is fucked no matter. Better it be fucked with out throwing nuclear anhilation into the mix.

Does anyone think Trump is better? Is not the same Ryan agenda being passed now? So… How much more badly will Pence fuck us than Bannon?

I believe Bannon wants to put those whom he determines as “undesirables” in a shallow mass grave in the middle of nowhere. So there’s that. Don’t think Pence would do that.

282
wrenchwench  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:32:10pm

re: #273 goddamnedfrank

Give me a teleportation device and a gigantic fucking prison on the Moon and I’ll make it happen.

How about a bicycle? Could you do it with a bicycle?

283
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:32:54pm

re: #281 CongoJack

I believe Bannon wants to put those whom he determines as “undesirables” in a shallow mass grave in the middle of nowhere. So there’s that. Don’t think Pence would do that.

Pence would stand aside and let the free market handle that, by providing no official sanctions vs. hate crimes etc.

As vile as that is, Bannon’s desire to get the state directly into the business of mass murder is much worse.

284
freetoken  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:33:22pm

re: #281 CongoJack

I believe Bannon wants to put those whom he determines as “undesirables” in a shallow mass grave in the middle of nowhere. So there’s that. Don’t think Pence would do that.

Agree. Pence would make sure these people had a proper “Christian burial” as the old phrase goes.

285
Timothy Watson  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:34:10pm

Your daily dose of “fuck off, Bernie”:

Facebook Post

286
CongoJack  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:35:56pm

re: #285 Timothy Watson

Your daily dose of “fuck off, Bernie”:

[Embedded content]

I’ve lost so much respect for him. Once saw him as a possible leader in the Senate. Now I just see old angry grandpa yelling at the rain and talking about the onion in his belt.

He should have run as an Independent not a come-lately by convenience Democratic Party member.

287
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:37:02pm

re: #285 Timothy Watson

Your daily dose of “fuck off, Bernie”:

[Embedded content]

I would argue that he has a point, but what he doesn’t have is an answer.

288
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:37:06pm

re: #285 Timothy Watson

Sanders is irritating, but the dismal record of (D) failure in winning elections is a real problem that will need real solutions.

289
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:39:01pm

re: #287 Blind Frog Belly White

I would argue that he has a point, but what he doesn’t have is an answer.

I see it a little differently. Sanders has latched onto part of what needs to be done, and it is true that that part of the puzzle has been neglected by the Democrats for a long time.

But economics is not the whole story here.

290
gocart mozart  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:39:47pm

Michael Hill stoled my joke and David Simon retweeted HIM!

I tweeted this 6 hours ago. Any lawyer here want to take my twitter joke plagerism lawsuit? 33% contingency fee $$$$$ can be yours!!

291
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:41:29pm
292
Cheechako  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:41:38pm

re: #275 EPR-radar

Every last Republican in Congress would happily see the US destroyed by civil war or by a foreign invader before agreeing to that, so this scenario is indeed implausible.

I agree that scenario is implausible but think about it for a few seconds. Having Hillary as POTUS would add a tremendous force for the base to rally against. The Republicans would still control Congress (at least until 2018) and could still ram through any Legislation they so desired. Hillary being POTUS would put a name/face to keep the RWNJ’s satisfied.

293
MsJ  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:43:16pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

I just feel awful because so many old women voted for HRC hoping for the first woman president and they should have gotten her.

I disagree with that sentiment 100%. We should vote for the most qualified, best suited to the job person… Which just happened to be a woman.

Put Palin in the mix. Should we, meaning me as a woman, vote for a woman just because? I’d chop off a limb before voting for Palin or anyone if her ilk.

294
KGxvi  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:44:46pm

re: #247 MOFO Beaner

I somewhat disagree. The constitution is silent in these circumstanses but that doesn’t mean there is no equitable remedy. Particularly if it was proven that the voting machines were hacked or similar.

Technically, there is no constitutional right to vote for president. Article II, Section 1 states:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The practice has been to hold popular elections in order to select Electors, but there is no requirement that such elections be held. Now, there is an implication that the selection of Electors should be by popular vote, per Section 2 of the 14th Amendment:

But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Similar language appears in the 24th Amendment:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

But neither of those Amendments specifically repeal the power of the state legislature to determine how electors are chosen. This was briefly raised in 2000 during the Florida recount when there was an outside possibility that Florida would not be able to certify the vote in time to appoint its electors.

Getting to the point of cutting a president’s term short: Article II, Section one clearly defines the president’s term at four years. The 20th Amendment lays out the procedure if the president-elect dies or in the event no one has qualified as president (meaning nobody got to 270 electoral votes and the House had yet to elect a president). It even goes so far as to state that Congress can pass a law to determine who will be acting president in the event that nobody has qualified as president or vice-president. And the 22nd Amendment limits the amount of time one can serve as president to 10 years.

Finally, the 25th Amendment makes it clear that if the president is removed from office, dies, or resigns, the vice-president becomes president.

There is no constitutional basis for having a new election. The presidential term is 4 years, and the vote that matters is the electoral college (again, this is why there was some hope that we would have more faithless electors than we ended up with). Again, if we subsequently learn of a stolen election, the process is impeachment and removal or resignation.

295
EPR-radar  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:46:57pm

re: #292 Cheechako

I agree that scenario is implausible but think about it for a few seconds. Having Hillary as POTUS would add a tremendous force for the base to rally against. The Republicans would still control Congress (at least until 2018) and could still ram through any Legislation they so desired. Hillary being POTUS would put a name/face to keep the RWNJ’s satisfied.

Clinton as POTUS would be able to veto Republican bills. They would get nothing through congress, and would be unable to explain such a betrayal to their constituents.

296
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:47:22pm

re: #287 Blind Frog Belly White

I would argue that he has a point, but what he doesn’t have is an answer.

The worst thing is that he used the point to further divide and debilitate the very Party he was ostensibly attempting to lead. His crusade was ultimately nothing more than a mirror image of Trump’s egocentric narcissism & dishonesty.

I mean, notice how despite repeated promises we never got to see Bernie’s full tax returns either. Notice how despite his lies, his wins came in the most undemocratic caucus processes. Notice how he encouraged his followers to riot in Nevada after they failed to overturn the popular vote?

Sanders will always represent for me the grotesque intellectual dishonesty, myopia and economic ideological monomania of the far left. Like Greenwald and all his bros at the Intercept, or the Jacobins, or Stein & Assange, at the end of the day Bernie only cares about himself and whatever argument he feels he needs to make to satisfy the immediate needs of personal expediency.

297
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:51:37pm

re: #296 goddamnedfrank

and Bernie was all about loudly calling for Obama to be primaried in 2012.

298
goddamnedfrank  Mar 9, 2017 • 2:54:20pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

I just feel awful because so many old women voted for HRC hoping for the first woman president and they should have gotten her.

Except they didn’t. Women of color voted for Hillary, that’s the group that overwhelmingly tried to save the country. That’s the group that did the right thing and voted for someone who didn’t look like them. White women, especially older ones, as a group betrayed themselves, their country, and their children’s future in order to vote for a serial sex abusing, unqualified lunatic because he promised them a whiter nation.

299
nines09  Mar 9, 2017 • 3:13:30pm

re: #265 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Anyone have change for a nickel?”

300
ajcharnc  Mar 10, 2017 • 1:03:36pm

Pence is just as much of a lunatic as Trump, just a different kind.

A Christian Dominionist. You can kiss abortion, birth control, and gay rights goodbye. A religious freedom law allowing people to discriminate against anybody would be passed. Though these will probably happen anyway by Congress and Trump would sign.

Not dumb as a rock like Trump but close: he knows how to play politics. He’ll promote and sign anything the Repugs pass through Congress.

My hubby & I are hunkered down waiting for the first piece of crap to directly affect us. My guess is healthcare: it won’t matter if the Repugs pass a repeal of the ACA, HHS Secretary Tom Price and Trump will destroy it by the end of the year.


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Fraser Cain, Creator of Universe Today, on UFOs and Why Its Unlikely That They’re Piloted Aliens (Video)I've written on things on aliens in the past, several times. Each time I took a skeptical look at the claims about extraterrestrials visiting Earth and affecting our past. Other skeptics have looked at the alleged claims of extraterrestrial life ...
CriticalDragon1177
2 hours, 56 minutes ago
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Coulter Cancels Berkeley Speech - Conservatives Whine About “Free Speech” Ann Coulter is one of the most vile and odious people on the political scene today, but this is ridiculous. As Elizabeth Warren said, "If you don't like her, don't show up," because the more campus leftist groups try ...
thecommodore
12 hours, 55 minutes ago
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Oregon Man Makes Record Ascent of Mount St. Helens With Snow Kite MOUNT ST. HELENS, Wash. – A Hood River man accomplished his 10-year mission to summit Mount St. Helens on a kite board, setting what he calls an unofficial record ascent of the iconic Pacific Northwest peak. vimeo.com On the ...
Bubblehead II
14 hours, 55 minutes ago
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ISIS Weapons Being Captured by Canadian Woman Working to Disarm Terrorists Much of the illegally traded weapons are small arms but some -- like the ISIS-made tunnel machine -- demonstrate a level of sophistication never seen before by such a group, according to Morrow. "It's quite unprecedented, the level at ...
Unshaken Defiance
15 hours, 28 minutes ago
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The Grifter’s Real Game? Psychology - Science Friday The grifter, the con artist, the flimflammer—the confidence man (or woman) goes by many names. But what the best of them have in common, according to The Confidence Game author Maria Konnikova, is an uncanny knack for understanding human ...
Birth Control Works
16 hours, 20 minutes ago
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Perception Scientist Says Reality Is ‘What Proved Useful in the Past’ Later in his explanation, he cites language as a clear example of something that’s part of our reality but only exists in our collective imagination. “It doesn’t exist without us,” he writes. “But it is very much part of ...
Birth Control Works
19 hours, 48 minutes ago
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STEALTHING: the Growing Movement of Men Who Secretly Remove Condoms During Sex Two years ago, a 19-year-old Florida teen posted a call for advice in the subreddit askgaybros. In the post, he said he met a guy on Grindr and went back to his place to hook up. When the guy ...
Birth Control Works
3 days, 6 hours ago
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Trump-Free Sunday Mornings-Daily Beast We think it’s time to go on a more balanced Donald Diet—call it a Sabbath for sanity. And that’s why we’re going to embark on a new experiment: Trump-free Sunday mornings. Barring major breaking news, for a few hours ...
Unshaken Defiance
3 days, 15 hours ago
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Video: John Muir - The Last Oasis John Muir - The Last Oasis is a short film directed by Michael Coleman a Martinez, California native inspired by the writings of naturalist, author and early advocate of wilderness preservation John Muir. Many of the locations featured in ...
teleskiguy
4 days, 2 hours ago
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The Woman Who Saved Lower Manhattan From Becoming a Highway What makes a city? It's not the buildings (skyscrapers) or the streets (traffic), or the banks and government offices and shopping districts sandwiched between them. It's the people. This is obvious nearly to the point of tautology, yet in ...
Birth Control Works
4 days, 9 hours ago
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