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317 comments

1
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:11:33am
2
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:11:58am
3
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:17:01am

re: #2 jaunte

[Embedded content]

4
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:19:17am
5
Dave In Austin  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:21:26am

Always a fun link, Bae is on 5 eggs right now. It looks like we got no takers on out nest boxes this year. There is a male tha is trying to call some action into the box by the house but it’s getting late in the season for available females.

facebook.com

grapevineowlcam.org

6
jeffreyw  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:23:19am

Imgur
Coffee. Cake.

7
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:27:26am

Thread

8
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:28:16am
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Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:28:58am

re: #4 Backwoods_Sleuth

Best Persuasion Ever…

10
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:32:06am

burn….

11
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:34:50am

re: #6 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Coffee. Cake.

I’m suffering through my Month of Nocoffeeshoparoundthecorner by going to my favorite bakery, where my latest coping mechanism is their day-old coffee cake. This morning I got my large coffee and ‘this European-looking day-old coffee cake.’ They told me ‘It’s an apple Danish. Still good?’ And I ate it.

12
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:35:39am
13
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:35:41am
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FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:37:21am

re: #13 Backwoods_Sleuth

heh, heh…2 seconds…

15
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:38:51am

“Almost as if out of central casting, some Wall Street finance broseph appeared and started humping the statue while his gross date rape-y friends laughed and cheered him on,” Alexis Kaloyanides captioned the picture. “He pretended to have sex with the image of a little girl. Douchebags like this are why we need feminism.”

16
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:43:07am

“I’m not concerned about it,” Mr. Ryan replied…

17
Jay C  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:45:02am

Interesting fact I learned from checking up on US Attorneys on Wikipedia: up til 2007, they used to have to confirmed by the Senate (within a time limit), but thanks to an alteration in the (disgustingly mis-named) PATRIOT Act signed by Bush 43, the position can now be filled - indefinitely - by the AG without confirmation.

Though what that provision has to do with fighting terrorism - as opposed to merely letting a President stack the USAs’ offices with any ideologues/partisans/hacks/cronies he wants without review escapes me… I’m sure there’s. good reason, though.

18
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:45:52am

re: #13 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Which really goes to show you just how valuable a promise from Trump is.

19
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:47:11am
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Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:48:32am

re: #15 FormerDirtDart

No, it’s why we need castration.

21
BigPapa  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:51:28am

re: #16 FormerDirtDart

Leftist Plant!!! 11TY!

22
jeffreyw  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:58:32am

re: #11 wrenchwench

I’m suffering through my Month of Nocoffeeshoparoundthecorner by going to my favorite bakery, where my latest coping mechanism is their day-old coffee cake. This morning I got my large coffee and ‘this European-looking day-old coffee cake.’ They told me ‘It’s an apple Danish. Still good?’ And I ate it.

Imgur
Mmm… apple Danish

23
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 11:59:42am
24
Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:02:29pm

re: #1 jaunte

Here’s what you get idiot.

25
bratwurst  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:17:40pm

That’s nice.

26
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:18:17pm
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thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:18:22pm

Afternoon Lizardim.

28
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:23:29pm

re: #25 bratwurst

That’s nice.

Among Bharara’s possible successors: Marc Mukasey, who has among other things repped Roger Ailes.

As of 2007 he led the white-collar criminal defense practice in the New York office of Bracewell & Giuliani. Son of Michael Mukasey, former US Attorney General (for 43), both justice advisers to Rudy Giuliani’s presidential campaign

29
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:30:32pm
30
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:31:32pm

So with the Justice Department soon to be hopelessly trumped, how can the admin possibly be held accountable for corruption, malfeasance, and other law-breaking?

31
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:33:28pm

re: #30 Interesting Times

So with the Justice Department soon to be hopelessly trumped, how can the admin possibly be held accountable for corruption, malfeasance, and other law-breaking?

I’m assuming this is rhetorical, as the answer is blatantly obvious.

32
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:39:43pm

re: #31 thedopefishlives

I’m assuming this is rhetorical, as the answer is blatantly obvious.

Well, yes and no. The entire GOP congress is in trump’s pocket, and the DoJ soon will be as well. Is there some other body with legal standing to do anything, e.g. ACLU?

33
bratwurst  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:40:03pm
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thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:40:44pm

re: #32 Interesting Times

Well, yes and no. The entire GOP congress is in trump’s pocket, and the DoJ soon will be as well. Is there some other body with legal standing to do anything, e.g. ACLU?

I think it would come down to the courts at that point.

35
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:43:35pm

re: #30 Interesting Times

So with the Justice Department soon to be hopelessly trumped, how can the admin possibly be held accountable for corruption, malfeasance, and other law-breaking?

Voting in midterms. i.e. we may be stuck with this BS until 2024.

36
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:46:29pm

re: #35 GlutenFreeJesus

Voting in midterms. i.e. we may be stuck with this BS until 2024.

Gerrymandering, Voter ID, Russian interference, etc, etc.

At this rate I wouldn’t be surprised to see the GOP GAIN seats in 2018.

As angry as that makes me.

37
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:50:30pm

Yes, I know Shaun King has a…checkered history in many respects. Nonetheless, how would you explain these poll results, and more importantly what should be DONE to change them?

In other words, the Democratic Party has a favorability rating 11 points lower than Pence, nine points lower than Trump, and even one point lower than the GOP.

Their unfavorable rating is 17 points worse than Pence, five points worse than Trump, and four points worse than the GOP.

This is a disaster. At a time when Donald Trump is the least liked President ever measured at this point in his first term, the Democratic Party has found a way to be even less liked than him. This is how Donald Trump wins a second term. This is how congressional Republicans win the next midterm elections. This is how conservatives not only maintain their current power from coast to coast, but also expand it.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:53:45pm
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JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:54:34pm

re: #36 Eclectic Cyborg

Add to that a portion of the electorate being crazy, another not insignificant number still being apathetic. Then add a growing and successful propaganda network with a less than stellar mainstream media apparatus and now I need a drink and puppy pics.

Sessions confirmation should have been a bigger battle. It’s such an important lynchpin. I know Dems tried, especially Warren. I just feel like they should have mobilezed all their resources and I think some were figuring they needed to hoard some of them for another fight down the road.

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Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:55:38pm

41
Nyet  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:58:21pm

Some elegant, if simple, stage magic.

Arthur Trace stops time for Penn & Teller

42
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 12:58:44pm
43
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:00:09pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

Anybody have insight on that polling outfit?

44
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:02:21pm

JJ MacNab is doing a little digging. Though, he stated the fire was “doing his part for America” , which seems an odd thing for someone with Sov Cit markers in his past legal interaction…

45
goddamnedfrank  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:05:05pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

Yes, I know Shaun King has a…checkered history in many respects. Nonetheless, how would you explain these poll results, and more importantly what should be DONE to change them?

[Embedded content]

I’m not sure but I know the blame lies squarely with people like Shaun King, Michael Moore, Bernie Sanders, Wil Wheaton, Rosario Dawson, Cornel West, Susan Sarandon & Jill Stein, who all to varying degrees worked overtime to tear down the Democratic Party last year. They all bought hook, line & sinker into the Russian electoral rat-fucking efforts and amplified the lie that the primary elections were rigged.

Yes, some of them came around and fought for Hillary at the end but only after they’d inflicted incalculable levels of damage to both her candidacy and the Democratic Party. They deliberately drove a cancerous wedge between the far left and the only group inclined to actually listen to and ally with them on the policies they care about. So Shaun may have half a point, but it’s about a problem he deliberately incubated. The first thing he can do to fix it is admit that he wasn’t just wrong, but was wrong in a way that millions of others are now paying for with their basic equality, lives and safety.

46
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:05:21pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

Yes, I know Shaun King has a…checkered history in many respects. Nonetheless, how would you explain these poll results, and more importantly what should be DONE to change them?

[Embedded content]

“The DNC can’t win because they are too much like the Republicans! They need to change if they want to start winning again!”
“And how do you propose they do that?”
“By dragging the party as far to the extreme as possible while making a lot of noise and being as confrontational as possible! And making an old white guy our figurehead!”
“So, basically be the far-left version of the GOP now.”
“NO! We’re better because we’re progressives!”

47
FormerDirtDart  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:09:02pm

Someone forgot to add the bubble bath prior to activating the agitators…

48
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:09:49pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Makes for good grifting.

Let me tell you how shitty, shitty, shitty these folks are. Now let me tell you how we can’t figure out why people think they are so shitty.

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Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:11:04pm

re: #43 JordanRules

Anybody have insight on that polling outfit?

They have a negligible Dem lean (less than 1 percent) and Nate Silver gives them a B+. Nonetheless, I’d resist the temptation to grasp at the “this poll must be wrong” straw. Didn’t we do that in the run-up to the election re Nate Silver’s odds numbers, with disastrous results? :/

Then there’s this, from King’s article:

Recently, I’ve asked the crowds where I am speaking two key questions about the Democratic Party. The response that I get is always the same - mass laughter or audible frustration.

The first question is, “If I asked you, in just a few sentences, to sum up what specific policies the Democratic Party stands for, what would you say?”

People have no genuine idea. They know some things the party stands against, but it’s genuinely hard to be sure of what they stand for.

The other question is, “What exactly is the strategy of the Democratic Party to take back the government from conservatives across the country?”

That one always gets the most laughs. Nobody has any idea. Not once has somebody stood up and said, “Hey, I know the strategy.” Hell, I don’t know it. I don’t think one exists. Whatever the strategy was this past election, it didn’t work either. And again, I don’t just mean in the presidential election. Democrats lost all over the place in national, state, and local elections.

Polling outfits aside, actual election results tell the tale.

50
goddamnedfrank  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:11:28pm

Creepy.

51
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:12:58pm
52
retired cynic  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:14:56pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

There aren’t words bad enough for what this family is doing to our country.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:18:08pm
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:18:39pm
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JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:19:05pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

Was just wondering because King doesn’t really get the benefit of the doubt from me. Doesn’t mean he can’t pull good data or evolve to make better analysis.

Do we grade election results with Russian interference in mind? There’s still a lot we don’t know about that. One thing we do know, Hillary got 3 million more votes.

56
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:19:28pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

I’m not sure but I know the blame lies squarely with people like Shaun King, Michael Moore, Bernie Sanders, Wil Wheaton, Rosario Dawson, Cornel West, Susan Sarandon & Jill Stein, who all to varying degrees worked overtime to tear down the Democratic Party last year.

Way too many sides for ‘squarely’. Blame lies polygonally with them and their like. After a contentious local issue of great concern to many, I call their followers the Smart Meter people.

57
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:19:53pm

re: #54 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

58
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:20:37pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

IMO the core message for the Democrats should be making the American Dream more possible by removing the barriers of class and bigotry.

Minimally, the strategy needs to include running real candidates in every house district in the nation every 2 years, as long term standard operating procedure.

59
darthstar  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:22:45pm

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EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:23:33pm

re: #55 JordanRules

Was just wondering because King doesn’t really get the benefit of the doubt from me. Doesn’t mean he can’t pull good data or evolve to make better analysis.

Do we grade election results with Russian interference in mind? There’s still a lot we don’t know about that. One thing we do know, Hillary got 3 million more votes.

The other thing we know is that Democratic results in Congress and at the state level are catastrophically bad.

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JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:23:52pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

“If I asked you, in just a few sentences, to sum up what specific policies the Democratic Party stands for, what would you say?”

People have no genuine idea. They know some things the party stands against, but it’s genuinely hard to be sure of what they stand for.

This is so easy and apparent for me that I genuinely don’t understand this myth.

Equality, Fairness, Justice, Opportunity, Competance

62
Arkansawyer  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:25:02pm

re: #40 Eclectic Cyborg

[Embedded content]

*Movie preview voice over voice*

He said he came to drain the swamp, but the swamp has always been his home.

63
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:25:58pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

As amusing as this can be, I dislike the message some could take from this of: ‘So, if white supremacists really looked the part, that would somehow make their ideology better’

64
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:28:19pm

re: #60 EPR-radar

While that might be generally true, still alot we don’t know.

Democratic House Candidates Were Also Targets of Russian Hacking
nytimes.com

65
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:28:38pm

re: #55 JordanRules

Do we grade election results with Russian interference in mind? There’s still a lot we don’t know about that. One thing we do know, Hillary got 3 million more votes.

Doesn’t matter if Dems run up the score in a few deep blue states. The archaic, craptastic slave-state-relic known as the Electoral College is the decider. So why couldn’t Dems do better in enough states to make the difference, states Obama won?

As for Russian interference, it can’t account for longer-term systemic problems like how many congressional/state/local races the Dems lost between 2008 and now.

There’s also this - all the people who said “I don’t care if Trump is [fill in laundry list of flaws], he’ll make America great again/bring back jobs/shake things up”? Why didn’t we have an equal or larger number of people who said “I don’t care if Hillary [fill in fake scandal du jour], she’ll [do something good I really want]?”

Instead, the swing-voter support was more like, “Meh, I don’t like/trust her, but she’s the only alternative to trump” :(

66
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:31:20pm
67
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:33:12pm

You know what the problem is? The problem is my sister, and my brother. Both of them take this ‘votes need to be EARNED!’ position, wherein voters aren’t responsible for the the outcome of their votes, but rather the Party is responsible, because they weren’t Whatever enough.

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Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:33:42pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

They have a negligible Dem lean (less than 1 percent) and Nate Silver gives them a B+. Nonetheless, I’d resist the temptation to grasp at the “this poll must be wrong” straw. Didn’t we do that in the run-up to the election re Nate Silver’s odds numbers, with disastrous results? :/

Then there’s this, from King’s article:

Polling outfits aside, actual election results tell the tale.

Smartest strategy going forward for the DNC would be to revive the 50 State Strategy of the Dean years, but that means also accepting that we’re going to see a lot more Blue Dogs in the ranks. We can be a national party or we can be a progressive party, the present political climate does not allow us to be both.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:33:53pm
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Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:36:10pm

re: #67 Blind Frog Belly White

You know what the problem is? The problem is my sister, and my brother. Both of them take this ‘votes need to be EARNED!’ position, wherein voters aren’t responsible for the the outcome of their votes, but rather the Party is responsible, because they weren’t Whatever enough.

If there is one cancerous attitude that stands above all those I witnessed last year, it would be that one. Every Bro who told me “Hillary has to earn my vote!” deserves a spot in the deepest pit of Hell.

71
Jebediah, RBG  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:42:38pm

re: #6 jeffreyw

nice mug

72
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:45:49pm
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Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:46:28pm

re: #53 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Part of a meeting…so apparently he couldn’t be bothered to do the whole thing.

74
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:46:45pm

Why would you put padlocks on interior doors?

75
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:48:41pm

re: #65 Interesting Times

Yep, some great points and I agree with these takes for the most part.

When the [fill in laundry list of flaws] for Trump goes against the values I think the Dem party stands for (equality etc) and are hypocritical (they don’t care if the Republican is the same thing they accused Obama or Hillary of) then I’m not sure I want to devise a strategy around that. That’s building in bad soil and will rot us.

So the strategy now, as others have said, definately means all 50 states in play again. Add to that, retail politics everywhere, owning and championing our message and it’s successes (equality, opportunity, competance, fairness, Obamacare etc), embracing the positive cultural feedback (Hollywood, good corporations etc), media think-tanks and media training, grassroots activism aligned with educational initiatives etc.

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ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:48:52pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

They have a negligible Dem lean (less than 1 percent) and Nate Silver gives them a B+. Nonetheless, I’d resist the temptation to grasp at the “this poll must be wrong” straw. Didn’t we do that in the run-up to the election re Nate Silver’s odds numbers, with disastrous results? :/

Then there’s this, from King’s article:

Polling outfits aside, actual election results tell the tale.

I’m not going to argue about results of the past election or any polling.

But when I read those comments about Democratic policy and plans it seems like the answers are generic and showing a basic ignorance of the Democratic Party.

It makes me think a lot of the people responding to King’s questions have no knowledge of politics and are or were lazy about educating themselves about what the Democratic party has been for all along.

I guess it goes to what we’ve been commenting on for some time…they needed big simple messages. Simply worded sentences…”Jobs.” “Paid College.” Cheap Health Insurance.” And at no point actually tell anyone how any of those simple “policies” are going to come about and what they will cost because that is not a “clear message” and gets too wonky or something.

It appears they also need some educating at the same time. Much work needs to be done…Fox and the Republicans have been great at dumbing down the electorate, especially on the younger side of the citizens.

77
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:49:03pm

re: #74 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Why would you put padlocks on interior doors?

from the description in the article, it sounds like ex-wife #3 was running a drug house.

78
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:49:07pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

If there is one cancerous attitude that stands above all those I witnessed last year, it would be that one. Every Bro who told me “Hillary has to earn my vote!” deserves a spot in the deepest pit of Hell.

She “had to earn my vote” may be a mask for the real issues involved. Any way of making the decision can be expressed in terms of “earning my vote”. For example, Hillary Clinton earned my vote in general by not being a fucking Republican and more specifically not being the goddamned Orange Menace, Unusually Incompetent and Corrupt even for a Republican.

The Bros who didn’t vote or voted third party each own 1/2 a vote for Trump, and no amout of bullshit about how Clinton should have ‘earned’ their votes will change that fact.

79
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:50:25pm
80
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:50:43pm
81
BlueGrl21  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:50:50pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

If there is one cancerous attitude that stands above all those I witnessed last year, it would be that one. Every Bro who told me “Hillary has to earn my vote!” deserves a spot in the deepest pit of Hell.

Yep.

We have to rebuild from the ground up. Old fashioned community organizing. We have to do it ourselves. Get out and be a presence in our neighborhoods. Work to get people registered to vote. Listen to their stories. Reconnect.

The national party is all over the place right now. Trying to figure out who they are. Ok. While they figure that out I’m registering voters and helping local candidates and marching and calling and acting as the precinct chair for my party. That’s how we build, and always should have.

82
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:50:52pm
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jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:51:02pm
84
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:51:34pm

re: #77 Backwoods_Sleuth

That was exactly my thought too. I didn’t know he had 3 ex-wives.

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Clearly a Country For Sick Old Haters  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:52:39pm

re: #74 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Why would you put padlocks on interior doors?

If a normal person wanted to secure an inside door, they’d simply use an entryway doorknob. A mentally ill person might think padlocks are a good idea.

86
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:52:45pm

re: #84 JordanRules

That was exactly my thought too. I didn’t know he had 3 ex-wives.

I think having 2 or more is a requirement to be a top conservative these days…

87
Clearly a Country For Sick Old Haters  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:52:51pm
88
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:53:05pm

Far too much of the American psyche is driven by sloganeering, style-over-substance, and shiny-object distraction. There also seems to be a mass-hysteria version of the dynamic one sometimes sees in child abuse survivors, where they blame/hate the parent who failed to protect them more than the one who committed the abuse.

So…while GOPers may be seen as the aggressors, Dems are seen as too weak/passive which in turn breeds voter apathy and contempt (don’t believe me? Read just about any comment thread on dKos e_e).

I hate the saying “perception is reality” because it’s true - that’s what we’ve been reduced to. So in answer to:

re: #61 JordanRules

Equality, Fairness, Justice, Opportunity, Competance

…Dems need to repeat that (or a similar message) until it engenders a Pavlovian mental association in the minds of voters (I bet, if I asked a random sample of people for the first word that came to mind when I said “Hillary Clinton”, they’d reflexively reply either “crooked” or “emails” just because of how often it was repeated). The brilliance of Obama’s 2008 campaign were the words “Hope” and “Change” - he managed to associate them with himself, so much so that even some racists voted for him.

89
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:56:25pm

re: #85 Clearly a Country For Sick Old Haters

If a normal person wanted to secure an inside door, they’d simply use an entryway doorknob. A mentally ill person might thing padlocks are a good idea.

I babysat at a house with a padlock on the master bedroom. The woman of the house was not normal, nor were her kids. The man was not of the house, but I think there was one.

90
freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 1:57:09pm

re: #88 Interesting Times

Far too much of the American psyche is driven by sloganeering, style-over-substance, and shiny-object distraction.

Your statement drives me back to my recent comparison with Adam Curtis’ documentary The Century of the Self.

The extent of social engineering through the mechanisms of advertising campaigns should not be ignored.

91
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:01:11pm

re: #76 ObserverArt

I’ve mentioned earlier that I think politics is a morality play, and the Democrats seem to have difficulty with operating appropriately in this context.

For example, the Obama administration and Democrats handled the bank bailout and crash about as well as could be expected in terms of keeping the system going in the face of Republican opposition.

However, there was also gross political malpractice here, since we never had high-profile Congressional hearings where bank executives got raked over the coals for profiting from their fraudulent destruction of the economy.

Sure, what they did may actually have been legal, but that makes it even more important to have had such hearings. Imagine the effect of bank executive testimony where the details of a fraud scheme that shocks the conscience are gone over in detail, followed by an equally detailed explication of how such shit was legal.

Sure it is political theater, but it is important political theater. This kind of thing after the 1929 crash is why we even have an SEC and had Glass-Stegall.

92
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:04:46pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

Absolutely!

It would have given them another great opportunity to trumpet Dem values.

93
freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:04:57pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

Which makes me lament that we don’t have as democratic of a system as we need.

A parliamentary system would ensure more debate, more policy discussions in public.

But instead we have a by-design good ol’ boy system in the Senate, and a House that is strongly controlled by money.

94
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:05:50pm
95
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:09:11pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

I’ve mentioned earlier that I think politics is a morality play, and the Democrats seem to have difficulty with operating appropriately in this context.

For example, the Obama administration and Democrats handled the bank bailout and crash about as well as could be expected in terms of keeping the system going in the face of Republican opposition.

However, there was also gross political malpractice here, since we never had high-profile Congressional hearings where bank executives got raked over the coals for profiting from their fraudulent destruction of the economy.

Sure, what they did may actually have been legal, but that makes it even more important to have had such hearings. Imagine the effect of bank executive testimony where the details of a fraud scheme that shocks the conscience are gone over in detail, followed by an equally detailed explication of how such shit was legal.

Sure it is political theater, but it is important political theater. This kind of thing after the great depression is why we even have an SEC and had the Glass-Stegall bill.

That was the first time Obama kept the country going instead of raising hell to make it better. The second time was October 2016. We can debate whether these were good actions or not. The country may have turned worse for the effort. I think that’s why he would do that. I have more cynical thoughts about why, but they still seem like conspiracy theories so far.

96
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:09:23pm

re: #92 JordanRules

Absolutely!

It would have given them another great opportunity to trumpet Dem values.

Realistically, those hearings didn’t happen because the (D) donor class didn’t want them to happen. Nobody is that incompetent.

97
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:09:27pm

re: #94 Backwoods_Sleuth

Wait. Let me get this straight. Sean Hannity actually thinks the CIA pulled a false flag on the Russian hacking? Is he FUCKING STUPID?!?!?

98
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:11:47pm

re: #97 thedopefishlives

Wait. Let me get this straight. Sean Hannity actually thinks the CIA pulled a false flag on the Russian hacking? Is he FUCKING STUPID?!?!?

Lumpy’s intelligence cannot be assessed by comparing his statements to reality. No Republican cares about that in the least. The only possible metric to use is his ability to propagate RWNJ talking points.

99
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:13:48pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

Lumpy’s intelligence cannot be assessed by comparing his statements to reality. No Republican cares about that in the least. The only possible metric to use is his ability to propagate RWNJ talking points.

It reads like something Alex “I’m a White House correspondent” Jones would say. Fucking hell. Conspiracy theory is mainstream now, isn’t it.

100
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:14:28pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

That was the first time Obama kept the country going instead of raising hell to make it better. The second time was October 2016. We can debate whether these were good actions or not. The country may have turned worse for the effort. I think that’s why he would do that. I have more cynical thoughts about why, but they still seem like conspiracy theories so far.

For the bank crisis, one did not have to choose between keeping things going and raising hell. Both should have been done.

In Oct 2016 it was one or the other, and therefore a much more difficult call to make.

101
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:15:39pm

re: #90 freetoken

Your statement drives me back to my recent comparison with Adam Curtis’ documentary The Century of the Self.

The extent of social engineering through the mechanisms of advertising campaigns should not be ignored.

The Conquest of Cool

Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism
by Thomas Frank

Written in 1997, this is a damning indictment of 20th century media culture. Useful though it might be to them, it is universally scorned and rejected by the right wing. This is largely because Frank is also the author of What’s the Matter With Kansas, and therefore a card carrying librul.

102
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:16:28pm

re: #99 thedopefishlives

It reads like something Alex “I’m a White House correspondent” Jones would say. Fucking hell. Conspiracy theory is mainstream now, isn’t it.

It sure is. The entire Republican Party is willfully delusional, and this is exactly what that delusion amounts to in practice.

103
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:17:22pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

I’ve mentioned earlier that I think politics is a morality play, and the Democrats seem to have difficulty with operating appropriately in this context.

For example, the Obama administration and Democrats handled the bank bailout and crash about as well as could be expected in terms of keeping the system going in the face of Republican opposition.

However, there was also gross political malpractice here, since we never had high-profile Congressional hearings where bank executives got raked over the coals for profiting from their fraudulent destruction of the economy.

Sure, what they did may actually have been legal, but that makes it even more important to have had such hearings. Imagine the effect of bank executive testimony where the details of a fraud scheme that shocks the conscience are gone over in detail, followed by an equally detailed explication of how such shit was legal.

Sure it is political theater, but it is important political theater. This kind of thing after the great depression is why we even have an SEC and had the Glass-Stegall bill.

I think you are on the right track, but there may be a related problem. If the Democratic party does go “no more nice guy” approach, that too might be seen as a negative. Fox and all the wingnut media will be on them, and there will be people in the party put-off by it.

It is going to take some fine line dancing to figure out how to pull off being more aggressive as a party without it being seen as mean.

But yeah, it seems some political theater is going to be needed, but it is going to have to be handled well. Maybe that is where they could be more educational to do some teaching instead of just criticizing like the typical Republican approach.

104
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:17:30pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

If he could keep it going and then hand it off to someone who could build on it, I think we could have waged more of those battles for the ‘better country’.

I also have some of those cynical thoughts about why dancing in my head, but yeah they are still in the conspiracy sphere.

105
Arkansawyer  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:19:53pm

re: #94 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Chaz don’t play that game.

106
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:21:41pm

re: #103 ObserverArt

The naive optimist in me still thinks it should be easier for the Democrats to paint the Republicans as greedy bastards (true) than for the Republicans to paint the Democrats as Satan’s Earthly Army (false).

107
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:23:04pm

re: #96 EPR-radar

Realistically, those hearings didn’t happen because the (D) donor class didn’t want them to happen. Nobody is that incompetent.

…and that right there is the genesis of the abyssmal 2010 turnout and the Bernie-bros before Bernie was even a thing -_-

108
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:24:43pm

re: #100 EPR-radar

For the bank crisis, one did not have to choose between keeping things going and raising hell. Both should have been done.

In Oct 2016 it was one or the other, and therefore a much more difficult call to make.

I think we’ve suffered a bit of our own voter amnesia here, because I can remember in early 2009, the biggest concern on the nightly news wasn’t “HANG THE BANKERS!,” it was “I’ve lost my job/my home/my savings/my credit!” Thousands of layoffs weekly, tens to hundreds of thousands monthly. The stock market cratering, credit disappearing, mortgages deeper underwater than the Titanic, and people eating into their savings just to make basic purchases. The White House faced opposition almost from Day One and part of getting through the Stimulus was making concessions like tax cuts that ultimately did nothing.

Dodd-Frank got through by the 3 votes in the House and 4 in the Senate, and that still was not as successful as it could have been because the GOP worked as hard as possible to block the implementation of it. So the idea of dragging bankers before Congress in early 2009 and reading them the Riot Act publicly might have appeal in hindsight, but at the time we were in a very precarious position politically. It’s the same reason why the administration made the politically necessary but publicly frustrating decision to let the Bush admin’s actions go without even cursory review.

109
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:27:05pm

re: #102 EPR-radar

It sure is. The entire Republican Party is willfully delusional, and this is exactly what that delusion amounts to in practice.

I’m done. Drink please!

110
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:27:59pm

re: #106 EPR-radar

The naive optimist in me still thinks it should be easier for the Democrats to paint the Republicans as greedy bastards (true) than for the Republicans to paint the Democrats as Satan’s Earthly Army (false).

Well, the Democratic party has always been about optimism. That is something else contrasting and needs to be made clearer.

111
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:30:04pm
112
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:32:59pm

re: #110 ObserverArt

Well, the Democratic party has always been about optimism. That is something else contrasting and needs to be made clearer.

This thread is worth considering:

113
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:33:15pm
114
teleskiguy  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:35:09pm
115
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:35:30pm

re: #112 Interesting Times

This thread is worth considering:

[Embedded content]

The opening argument is flawed. The Dems are NOT using all of their political firepower on the Russia thing.
They are also working against the ACA repeal and voter restrictions, among many other things.

116
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:35:54pm

re: #112 Interesting Times

This thread is worth considering:

[Embedded content]

Here’s the problem with that: The GOP got away with it for 8 years and not only didn’t suffer politically, they actually benefited to a huge degree. Can we seriously sit here, after watching “BENGHAZI!!!!” and “BUT HER EMAILS!!!” kill a presidential campaign and say “Focusing on a scandal is a mistake”?

117
bratwurst  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:35:56pm

re: #111 Backwoods_Sleuth

Maybe that gentleman can prove his theory by running a hose of beneficial CO2 into his home. /

118
PhillyPretzel  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:37:30pm

Daylight Savings Time is back. littlegreenfootballs.com

119
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:39:47pm

You know how we won in ‘06? “Culture of Corruption.”

‘08? “Hope” and “Change.”

‘12? “Stay the Course.”

You know how we lost ‘10 and ‘14? Getting into the weeds about policy while the GOP was screaming “SOCIALISM!!!!”

120
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:40:52pm

re: #117 bratwurst

Maybe that gentleman can prove his theory by running a hose of beneficial CO2 into his home. /

These clowns who say it’s beneficial - do they deny the physics of Infrared absorption?

121
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:41:04pm

re: #112 Interesting Times

Might be better to analyze when we figure out how much Russia had to do with it.

Also, there may be treason involved here. The Republic is at risk, literally. How one gets around to using that as an opportunity to bash Dems is weird. If you must, you can do it without that.

122
Moebym  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:41:29pm

I managed to piss myself off just by skimming this thread. (It’s so easy to get worked up nowadays, isn’t it?)

I’m listening to an ACLU townhall right now, which is helping subdue my rage somewhat.

123
Nyet  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:41:31pm

Isn’t this one of the basic facts of life that frogs can’t and won’t drain the swamp?

124
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:42:32pm

re: #120 Blind Frog Belly White

These clowns who say it’s beneficial - do they deny the physics of Infrared absorption?

They think they’re plants.

125
Eric The Fruit Bat  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:42:44pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

Perhaps we need to start a new third party called the Human Rights and Justice Party with a goal to get a veto-proof majority of both houses by 2020. I think I’ll spool-up a new article for us to add ideas as to what the platform should be.

Anybody game?

126
stpaulbear  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:42:57pm

The Democratic party will never be perfect enough for me. All of the things that I consider mistakes on their part are huge flags that make it impossible for me to support them. I will constantly tell everyone why they should not buy what the democrats are selling. Only this will make them a party that is good enough to earn everyone’s vote.
/

127
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:43:22pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

I think that’s the point the tweeter was trying to make - Dems need to offer compelling contrast with GOP economic policies, a vision simple enough for “shiny object” voters to latch onto.

As for the Russia scandal, I fear too many voters (even outside the GOPer bubble) just don’t care all that much (outside of something screamingly blatant, e.g. incontrovertible proof that Russia hacked voting machines and altered results…or, conversely, something so lurid and gross - and on video - that it sticks to trump for a change)

128
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:43:53pm
129
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:47:54pm

re: #127 Interesting Times

The Russia thing has to be addressed or you’re building in bad soil again and the rot will take us down.

It has to be addressed. The implications of waving it off are staggering.

130
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:48:35pm

re: #127 Interesting Times

I think that’s the point the tweeter was trying to make - Dems need to offer compelling contrast with GOP economic policies, a vision simple enough for “shiny object” voters to latch onto.

As for the Russia scandal, I fear too many voters (even outside the GOPer bubble) just don’t care all that much (outside of something screamingly blatant, e.g. incontrovertible proof that Russia hacked voting machines and altered results…or, conversely, something so lurid and gross - and on video - that it sticks to trump for a change)

I think part of the problem in the past year was trying to hard to sell people on policy when we just got done watching the GOP win on empty promises. We need to differentiate ourselves, true, but we need to stop short of letting ourselves get sucked into arguments over specifics. Take the Trumpcare fight right now, the smartest thing we can do is to find the analyses that say it’ll be an absolute mess and give them a megaphone. Emphasize the negatives: 15 million losing their insurance, plans that offer less for more money, the “age tax,” and other bite-sized attacks that can be easily summarized. The very last thing we want to do right now is entertain our habit of turning it into a policy discussion.

131
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:49:30pm
132
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:49:45pm

re: #116 Targetpractice

Here’s the problem with that: The GOP got away with it for 8 years and not only didn’t suffer politically, they actually benefited to a huge degree. Can we seriously sit here, after watching “BENGHAZI!!!!” and “BUT HER EMAILS!!!” kill a presidential campaign and say “Focusing on a scandal is a mistake”?

Depends on the audience/party. Of course the wingnut conservatives and other Democrat haters would eat up both emails and Benghazi.

But how do you explain all the bad that came out about Trump and yet too many people didn’t use it against Trump…they ran with the emails and Benghazi. And some of them were former Democrats and the growing group of independents.

Added concern…All the people that are still complaining all Hillary did was run a negative campaign on Trump. Was that too much political theater?

Democrats are not an easy group of people to explain, or deal with.

133
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:50:37pm

re: #123 Nyet

Isn’t this one of the basic facts of life that frogs can’t and won’t drain the swamp?

Tree frogs!

134
Kragar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:51:42pm

re: #97 thedopefishlives

Yes and yes.

135
electrotek  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:51:48pm

Does anyone remember this?

136
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:52:12pm

re: #94 Backwoods_Sleuth

137
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:53:05pm

Damnet, how did I get sucked into relitigating this shit?!? Uggh.

Let me get back to the domestic resistance stuff and fighting the rise of fascism around the globe.

Hunf, interesting

138
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:54:53pm

re: #126 stpaulbear

On the other hand, we still have gross (D) political incompetence like the following.

I get (D) fundraising appeal in the mail. Frequently the pitch these appeals make is along the lines of ‘Donate now and your donation will be 2x or 3x more effective because of matching funds from a large donor (or group of large donors).’

That’s a fucking great (D) message — my donations and those of hundreds or thousands more like me combined are on the order of pocket change for mega donors. Of course this is a fact of life in a society like the US that permits such obscene concentrations of wealth, but must the Democrats really rub my nose in it so blatantly?

Needless to say, I’ve never been moved to donate by the thought of my donation getting such a match.

139
Arkansawyer  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:55:26pm

re: #136 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

C’mon now, that’s unfair to Hannity. He’s into furry play.

140
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:55:40pm
141
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:57:43pm

re: #132 ObserverArt

Depends on the audience/party. Of course the wingnut conservatives and other Democrat haters would eat up both emails and Benghazi.

But how do you explain all the bad that came out about Trump and yet too many people didn’t use it against Trump…they ran with the emails and Benghazi. And some of them were former Democrats and the growing group of independents.

Added concern…All the people that are still complaining all Hillary did was run a negative campaign on Trump. Was that too much political theater?

Democrats are not an easy group of people to explain, or deal with.

This gets to one of my other recommendations: Learn from Trump’s example with regards to dealing with the press. Time to start playing the “access game” against the press, whether that be pulling press credentials, making public statements about not making appearances on certain networks, and cultivating non-traditional news sources. And when the press complains about that behavior, call them on their abusive relationship with Republicans, about how they keep getting beaten black and blue but crawl back to Trump.

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 2:58:00pm
143
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:00:12pm

Got those Lowdown I’ll Die Without Those New Mexico Green Chilis Blues.

144
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:02:51pm
145
darthstar  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:03:16pm

re: #143 De Kolta Chair

Got those Lowdown I’ll Die Without Those New Mexico Green Chilis Blues.

I remember bringing back a bunch of those from NM when I was there a few years back. Froze a shitload and was bereft when I used the last of them.

146
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:03:58pm

re: #135 electrotek

Does anyone remember this?

[Embedded content]

Not I, and I have no explanation for that, because I remember this:

The assassination of Orlando Letelier refers to the September 21, 1976 car bombing, in Washington, D.C., of Orlando Letelier, a leading opponent of Chilean dictator Gen. Augusto Pinochet.

147
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:05:06pm

re: #143 De Kolta Chair

Got those Lowdown I’ll Die Without Those New Mexico Green Chilis Blues.

Mrs. Fish put together a buffalo sauce marinade and threw it in a slow cooker with a venison roast. Shredded it, put it on bread with some bleu cheese dressing… OM NOM NOM

148
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:06:06pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

I think we’ve suffered a bit of our own voter amnesia here, because I can remember in early 2009, the biggest concern on the nightly news wasn’t “HANG THE BANKERS!,” it was “I’ve lost my job/my home/my savings/my credit!” Thousands of layoffs weekly, tens to hundreds of thousands monthly. The stock market cratering, credit disappearing, mortgages deeper underwater than the Titanic, and people eating into their savings just to make basic purchases. The White House faced opposition almost from Day One and part of getting through the Stimulus was making concessions like tax cuts that ultimately did nothing.

Dodd-Frank got through by the 3 votes in the House and 4 in the Senate, and that still was not as successful as it could have been because the GOP worked as hard as possible to block the implementation of it. So the idea of dragging bankers before Congress in early 2009 and reading them the Riot Act publicly might have appeal in hindsight, but at the time we were in a very precarious position politically. It’s the same reason why the administration made the politically necessary but publicly frustrating decision to let the Bush admin’s actions go without even cursory review.

I see this pretty much the opposite way around. By not prosecuting Bush administration torturers, we normalized war crimes. By not raking bank executives over the coals when we had the chance, we made the next bank crash that much more likely. Although they wouldn’t have been so easy to do (especially going after the torturers), these things needed to be done.

This business of the banks being above the law was a contributing factor to the weaknesses of mainstream Democrats on economic issues that Sanders et al. exploited, and that was a contributing factor to the Disaster of 2016.

149
stpaulbear  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:06:30pm

re: #138 EPR-radar

Umm, you’re kind of making my point. You’re assuming that every corporation that would do donation matching is inherently evil and wants only to squash your freedoms by controlling the party.

MN Public Radio just finished a donation drive where they constantly had companies offering donations based on MPR getting a certain number of donations within a certain time period. It helps them bring in donations based on the listener thinking his/her donation will do more good than if they just donated without the match. The station would probably be more independent if they didn’t need corporate donations, but then they probably wouldn’t have the funds to stay on the air.

150
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:08:24pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

Today’s NY Daily News cover aligns with what every NYer I’ve talked to today is saying, as well as what two of my self-described “centrist” sisters in Arizona are saying.

They’re both so cute, you’d love ‘em.

151
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:09:34pm

Dy-uh! Forgot the NY Daily News cover

152
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:10:22pm

re: #151 De Kolta Chair

Dy-uh! Forgot the NY Daily News cover

[Embedded content]

yeppers. I saw that cover this morning.

153
allegro  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:14:09pm

re: #149 stpaulbear

Umm, you’re kind of making my point. You’re assuming that every corporation that would do donation matching is inherently evil and wants only to squash your freedoms by controlling the party.

MN Public Radio just finished a donation drive where they constantly had companies offering donations based on MPR getting a certain number of donations within a certain time period. It helps them bring in donations based on the listener thinking his/her donation will do more good than if they just donated without the match. The station would probably be more independent if they didn’t need corporate donations, but then they probably wouldn’t have the funds to stay on the air.

I was mulling about the same thing. I often give to PBS and other good charities with the matching donation thing. The company gets some feel good PR while doing something good with their profits. I see win-win here. I don’t know if the Democratic party deserves differential treatment. It too depends on donations.

154
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:14:43pm

re: #152 Backwoods_Sleuth

yeppers. I saw that cover this morning.

A federal grand jury! A federal grand jury! My kingdom for a federal grand jury!

“I like clouds.”
155
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:16:01pm

re: #149 stpaulbear

Umm, you’re kind of making my point. You’re assuming that every corporation that would do donation matching is inherently evil and wants only to squash your freedoms by controlling the party.

MN Public Radio just finished a donation drive where they constantly had companies offering donations based on MPR getting a certain number of donations within a certain time period. It helps them bring in donations based on the listener thinking his/her donation will do more good than if they just donated without the match. The station would probably be more independent if they didn’t need corporate donations, but then they probably wouldn’t have the funds to stay on the air.

I’m not making any assumptions about the motives of the large donors that do this kind of matching donation. I just really don’t appreciate the pointed reminder of economic realities.

A good argument can be made to the effect the the US is already a plutocracy, and seeing this kind of stuff from the Democrats is certainly consistent with that thesis.

156
Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:17:21pm

re: #151 De Kolta Chair

Decades ago this would have been referred to as the Saturday Night Massacre. Now it doesn’t rate the same coverage that season 13 of the Kardashians does.

157
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:18:04pm
158
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:20:04pm

re: #144 JordanRules

Joy Reid has a good thread starting from this tweet.

159
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:20:41pm

re: #151 De Kolta Chair

Dy-uh! Forgot the NY Daily News cover

[Embedded content]

You drain that swamp, there, Mr. President.

160
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:20:58pm

re: #145 darthstar

Love ‘em!

161
Targetpractice  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:21:08pm

re: #148 EPR-radar

I see this pretty much the opposite way around. By not prosecuting Bush administration torturers, we normalized war crimes. By not raking bank executives over the coals when we had the chance, we made the next bank crash that much more likely. Although they wouldn’t have been so easy to do (especially going after the torturers), these things needed to be done.

This business of the banks being above the law was a contributing factor to the weaknesses of mainstream Democrats on economic issues that Sanders et al. exploited, and that was a contributing factor to the Disaster of 2016.

Sanders appealed to people who either were too young to remember the Great Recession’s impact in ‘08-‘09 or were well-off enough not to have to worry about banks withholding credit and loans. Those college students that he was bringing in with his rallies? Most of them weren’t old enough to shave when the Great Recession hit. Minority voters weren’t there for him precisely because they got their asses whipped by the GR and their biggest worry in 2009 was about getting a job or keeping their homes, not roasting bankers on a spit.

162
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:21:58pm

re: #135 electrotek

Does anyone remember this?

[Embedded content]

I remember it pretty well. It was a home grown Nation of Islam offshoot, in fact seeking revenge against NoI for a gruesome mass murder. The leader took Jewish office workers hostage and threatened to behead them if authorities did not turn the convicted NoI killers over to him for summary justice. Of course no such could happen. There was also a related shootout in which 2 people were killed and future mayor Marion Berry was wounded. The ringleader, one Hamaas Abdul Khaalis, died in prison in 2004. Other perps also got long sentences.
There was not an immigrant among them.

163
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:24:10pm
164
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:24:58pm

re: #155 EPR-radar

I’m not making any assumptions about the motives of the large donors that do this kind of matching donation. I just really don’t appreciate the pointed reminder of economic realities.

A good argument can be made to the effect the the US is already a plutocracy capitalist country, and seeing this kind of stuff from the Democrats is certainly consistent with that thesis.

That is enough to set off many bros and Smart Meter people..

165
De Kolta Chair  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:26:33pm

re: #159 thedopefishlives

Yuugest drainage ever!!!

166
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:32:45pm
167
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:35:30pm

re: #164 wrenchwench

That is enough to set off many bros and Smart Meter people..

Even if the BernieBro critique of the Democratic Party as being hopelessly compromised on economic issues is accepted at face value, it doesn’t follow to sit out or vote 3rd party in 2016. It’s like an updated Underpants Gnome model for politics:

1) Democrats suck
2) So let Trump win
3) ???
4) Profit

168
Eventual Carrion  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:38:58pm

re: #74 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Why would you put padlocks on interior doors?

Sounds like a setup that someone would use to keep people captive and dissolve body parts.

169
Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:39:52pm

170
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:40:34pm

re: #39 JordanRules

Add to that a portion of the electorate being crazy, another not insignificant number still being apathetic. Then add a growing and successful propaganda network with a less than stellar mainstream media apparatus and now I need a drink and puppy pics.

Sessions confirmation should have been a bigger battle. It’s such an important lynchpin. I know Dems tried, especially Warren. I just feel like they should have mobilezed all their resources and I think some were figuring they needed to hoard some of them for another fight down the road.

No one was paying attention to the nominations, except for Betsy DeVos, who even the Republicans were against. Everyone else on the list, I had to tell them who was being nominated.

171
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:41:42pm

re: #153 allegro

I was mulling about the same thing. I often give to PBS and other good charities with the matching donation thing. The company gets some feel good PR while doing something good with their profits. I see win-win here. I don’t know if the Democratic party deserves differential treatment. It too depends on donations.

I don’t see anything wrong with matching donations for a charity. For a political party, I think it is different, and that is because money is a form of political power.

So a matching donation arrangement for the Democrats makes it very clear that the few large donors have as much (or more) financial political power than all of the small donors. That seems like a poor position to be in if the party is to oppose plutocracy.

172
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:44:15pm

Heh:

cbs12.com

173
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:45:54pm
174
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 3:47:58pm

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel

The Conquest of Cool

Written in 1997, this is a damning indictment of 20th century media culture. Useful though it might be to them, it is universally scorned and rejected by the right wing. This is largely because Frank is also the author of What’s the Matter With Kansas, and therefore a card carrying librul.

Hey, speaking of Thomas Frank, he more recently wrote this:

This is important because winning is supposed to be the raison d’etre of centrism. Over the years, the centrists have betrayed the Democratic party’s liberal base in all sorts of ways - deregulating banks, securing free trade deals, signing off on Wall Street bailouts and the Iraq war. Those who bridled at all this were instructed to sit down and shut up because the Clintons and their triangulating ilk were the practical ones who would bring us victory.

Except that they don’t. This year the Republicans chose an honest-to-god scary candidate, a man who really ought to have been kept out of the White House, and the party’s centrists choked. Instead of winning, the pragmatists delivered Democrats to the worst situation they’ve been in for many decades, with control of no branch of the federal government and only a handful of state legislatures. Over the years, and at the behest of this faction, Democrats gave up what they stood for piece by piece and what they have to show for it now is nothing.

And yes, I know the Dem platform of 2016 was supposed to be its most progressive in years, but not enough people knew about it or believed Hillary would implement it. Again, that pesky perception/reality thing…

176
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:01:42pm
177
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:02:37pm

re: #174 Interesting Times

Okay, now I’m curious…

I know the Dem platform of 2016 was supposed to be its most progressive in years

Do you believe it was?

178
Hecuba's daughter  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:04:39pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

I think part of the problem in the past year was trying to hard to sell people on policy when we just got done watching the GOP win on empty promises. We need to differentiate ourselves, true, but we need to stop short of letting ourselves get sucked into arguments over specifics. Take the Trumpcare fight right now, the smartest thing we can do is to find the analyses that say it’ll be an absolute mess and give them a megaphone. Emphasize the negatives: 15 million losing their insurance, plans that offer less for more money, the “age tax,” and other bite-sized attacks that can be easily summarized. The very last thing we want to do right now is entertain our habit of turning it into a policy discussion.

Tell the public that Trumpcare is the true death panel — that thousands of people will die prematurely each year because they will no longer have health care.

179
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:05:55pm

re: #118 PhillyPretzel

Daylight Savings Time is back. littlegreenfootballs.com

Thanks for the reminder!

180
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:10:08pm

re: #179 Stanley Sea

Thanks for the reminder!

GOOD! I was getting tired of trying to motivate myself to ride the rollers at work, because it gets too dark, too soon. Now I can hit the road instead!

181
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:11:09pm
182
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:11:16pm

re: #177 JordanRules

Do you believe it was?

In some respects, definitely yes:

On education, Democrats committed to tuition-free education at in-state public colleges and universities for all those making under $125,000 a year…On health care, the platform committee rejected Sanders’s call for Medicare for all, but it did back a public option in Obamacare and for allowing those 55 and over to buy into Medicare. Clinton also endorsed Sanders’s signature call for more than doubling support for community health centers that provide primary health-care services, particularly in rural areas.

…in others, not so much:

On climate, the platform includes a Sanders-backed declaration of a “climate emergency,” yet amendments to ban fracking and to levy a tax on carbon emissions were defeated. The platform expresses the hope that the United States will be running entirely on clean energy by mid-century, but there is little policy to make this so.

Nonetheless, there was lots of good stuff in there that, for various reasons, didn’t get nearly enough attention, publicity, or proper marketing/PR.

183
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:11:59pm

Why don’t more people know about the Democratic agenda? Consider how many times people have bitched on here about how the Sunday morning shows only have Republicans on them. Consider there really isn’t a Democratic counterpart to Fox. Consider that, during the election, while I had no trouble hearing about Clinton’s and the Democrats proposals, the only time she got on air time with the media was when she was going after Trump.

Why aren’t they popular? People have been told, without any push back by the media, that Democrats are going to kill people by giving them health care. People have been told that the Democrats requiring streams to be clean is hurting people. People have been told that requiring someone to sell a cake is an affront to God. People have been told that not wanting to be shot is just blacks trying to take over.

And yes, I blame the population. Living in Trump country, I can talk to people who say they like health care, think we need more education spending, think raising taxes on the wealthy would be good, own guns and think there should be more regulations, but voted for Trump and it all boils down to race. These people are not going to be attracted to Democrats until everything hurts them more than seeing a minority get treated equally.

And don’t get me started on the people who are now bitching but didn’t bother to vote.

Oh, I know, there are things Democrats could have done better. Maybe Democrats should have said “You know that’s the ACA, right? You know that Obamacare is the ACA, right?” They really should be building up a national field of people running for office. But there are a multitude of things out of their control.

There are lots of reasons that Democrats are unpopular, and only a little has to do with Democrats. And I’m not going to boot minorities out of the party just to make room for more whites. I’m not going to kick gays out just to make room for more Christians. I’m not going to kick assertive women out just to make room for chauvinists.

184
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:12:39pm
185
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:17:20pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

What would be funny is if the court said that Bharara had to remain on the case.

186
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:18:11pm
187
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:18:24pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

This one’s also important:

189
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:19:46pm

re: #183 Belafon

Why don’t more people know about the Democratic agenda? Consider how many times people have bitched on here about how the Sunday morning shows only have Republicans on them. Consider there really isn’t a Democratic counterpart to Fox. Consider that, during the election, while I had no trouble hearing about Clinton’s and the Democrats proposals, the only time she got on air time with the media was when she was going after Trump.

Why aren’t they popular? People have been told, without any push back by the media, that Democrats are going to kill people by giving them health care. People have been told that the Democrats requiring streams to be clean is hurting people. People have been told that requiring someone to sell a cake is an affront to God. People have been told that not wanting to be shot is just blacks trying to take over.

And yes, I blame the population. Living in Trump country, I can talk to people who say they like health care, think we need more education spending, think raising taxes on the wealthy would be good, own guns and think there should be more regulations, but voted for Trump and it all boils down to race. These people are not going to be attracted to Democrats until everything hurts them more than seeing a minority get treated equally.

And don’t get me started on the people who are now bitching but didn’t bother to vote.

Oh, I know, there are things Democrats could have done better. Maybe Democrats should have said “You know that’s the ACA, right? You know that Obamacare is the ACA, right?” They really should be building up a national field of people running for office. But there are a multitude of things out of their control.

There are lots of reasons that Democrats are unpopular, and only a little has to do with Democrats. And I’m not going to boot minorities out of the party just to make room for more whites. I’m not going to kick gays out just to make room for more Christians. I’m not going to kick assertive women out just to make room for chauvinists.

Wonderfully stated.

190
Hecuba's daughter  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:20:23pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

My Trumpster brother dismisses all ties between Russia and Trump. He also claims Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder are the true racists and, of course, Jeff Sessions is not a racist. Most of the Trumpsters don’t want diversity — they want white rule, they want the wall and they are terrified of Muslims. When the “surprise” news came out that Americans would have to pay for the wall, my SIL expressed her enthusiasm for making a contribution.

(edited to correct omission)

191
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:20:36pm

re: #187 Belafon

This one’s also important:

[Embedded content]

Things that make you go hmm.

192
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:20:39pm

re: #187 Belafon

This one’s also important:

[Embedded content]

But there’s no connection there, no, this was just business as usual…

193
Barefoot Grin  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:20:58pm

re: #187 Belafon

This one’s also important:

[Embedded content]

Wait, no, can’t be. That’s the black stupid nefarious bumbling 3-d-chess-playing Kenyan ex-President!

//

194
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:20:59pm

re: #187 Belafon

This one’s also important:

[Embedded content]

and this:

195
Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:21:27pm

Separated at birth?

196
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:22:10pm

re: #193 Barefoot Grin

Wait, no, can’t be. That’s the black stupid nefarious bumbling 3-d-chess-playing Kenyan ex-President!

//

The same one they are now all screaming about “shadow government”…

197
Cheechako  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:22:36pm

I think Preet Bharara would be an excellent choice to lead a Congressional Special Investigation but know that idea has as much chance as a snowball surviving in hell.

198
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:23:29pm

re: #197 Cheechako

I think Preet Bharara would be an excellent choice to lead a Congressional Special Investigation but know that idea has as much chance as a snowball surviving in hell.

Yeah this latest basically all makes that an impossibility.it’s too bad. The guy is brilliant.

199
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:23:35pm

re: #197 Cheechako

I think Preet Bharara would be an excellent choice to lead a Congressional Special Investigation but know that idea has as much chance as a snowball surviving in hell.

It’s the job any attorney would dream of: Lead an investigation against the most corrupt Presidential administration ever. It could be the defining moment of one’s career.

200
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:23:39pm
201
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:25:48pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Wow. Douchecanoe Dinesh sets a new low.

202
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:26:08pm

Italian band deported for illegal immigration after entering U.S. for SXSW festival

An Italian band was deported for trying to play a gig at SXSW.

The group Soviet Soviet detailed its deportation incident on Facebook, explaining they were arrested and spent the night in jail for “illegal immigration” before being deported to Italy this week.

In Soviet America, ICE puts YOU in the cooler!

203
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:26:18pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

He really is a bitter douche.

204
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:26:56pm
205
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:27:13pm

re: #201 thedopefishlives

Wow. Douchecanoe Dinesh sets a new low.

The comments about Obama being a chlid no one wanted were worse. He really is a classless asshole though. I guess fucking Ann Coulter does that.

206
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:28:58pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

The comments about Obama being a chlid no one wanted were worse. He really is a classless asshole though. I guess fucking Ann Coulter does that.

I guess I missed that. And let’s be clear - if one’s standards are already so low that you would hit it with Ann Coulter, I suppose saying shit like this is just par for the course.

207
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:29:25pm

re: #206 thedopefishlives

I guess I missed that. And let’s be clear - if one’s standards are already so low that you would hit it with Ann Coulter, I suppose saying shit like this is just par for the course.

Yep they dated I believe.

208
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:30:20pm

re: #166 GlutenFreeJesus

efuseakay @efuseakay
@seanhannity speaking of hypocrites, have you been waterboarded yet?
6:25 PM - 11 Mar 2017

Has anyone ever seen Hypocrite Hannity ever mention that again, admit he won’t do it, deny he ever said it…anything?

Or does he just arrogantly ignore the whole thing not the least concerned because he figures anyone that brings that up isn’t one of his customers audience?

209
JordanRules  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:31:06pm

re: #183 Belafon

Word!!!!!!!!

210
Barefoot Grin  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:31:41pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I wonder if that’s the hotel he used to cheat on his wife.

211
Belafon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:31:41pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I suspect Bharara will be able to find work really quickly. Maybe the NY AG can hire him.

212
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:31:43pm
213
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:33:22pm

re: #209 JordanRules

Word!!!!!!!!

Speaking to that sentiment. I was gathering petitions signatures again this morning as I’ve been doing. One guy sounded interested when I talked about how the candidate was on the environment and health care and then he asked me the party, I said Democratic and then he’s like “Go Trump.” He wasn’t mean or anything like that but it does speak to me what Belafon is talking about how for many of these people their racial resentments are why they tie themselves to the GOP and right wing movement more than attachment to right wing principles. Resentment is the engine that pushes the modern right wing movement.

215
wrenchwench  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:33:57pm

re: #183 Belafon

There are lots of reasons that Democrats are unpopular, and only a little has to do with Democrats. And I’m not going to boot minorities out of the party just to make room for more whites. I’m not going to kick gays out just to make room for more Christians. I’m not going to kick assertive women out just to make room for chauvinists.

You saved the best for last.

216
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:34:11pm

re: #212 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Hey look ma a stooge.

217
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:36:19pm

re: #215 wrenchwench

You saved the best for last.

That really was the best part. I’m tired of being told we need to abandon groups that have been Democratic loyalists even in the party’s most difficult hours i.e. the early Bush years and Reagan years for people who don’t really want much to do with our party anyhow. If you’re working class white and are a staunch Democrat, you don’t apply to what I’m talking about here but to the Trump Democrats in the Rust Belt, yep I’m definitely talking about you. I have no desire to be part of a party that panders to your resentments while ignoring the concerns of our base.

218
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:36:39pm
219
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:38:29pm

Today was a tougher day by the way. I was actually petition captain though. My one volunteer was an older woman and the other only a junior in high school. It was really cold but we got 31 signatures between the three of us. Most people were alright but I did have one guy tell me to “go away” and his wife called him out for his rudeness. Meh, if you’re not interested just say that rather than being a dick. I’ve had self identified Republicans be more pleasant than that.

220
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:38:29pm
221
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:39:25pm

re: #220 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

But there’s no difference between the Dems and Republicans. Just ask someone who is still bitter over the fact that HRC got more votes than Bernie because they’re totes objective. //

222
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:42:29pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

It was frigid cold here, but I spent an hour outside replacing the brake rotors on my daily driver. It was causing an annoying sound while driving, as well as degraded braking performance (and I suspect sucking a little bit of fuel mileage). It seems to be better now, but the true test will come as I get back into the work week.

223
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:43:44pm

re: #222 thedopefishlives

It was frigid cold here, but I spent an hour outside replacing the brake rotors on my daily driver. It was causing an annoying sound while driving, as well as degraded braking performance (and I suspect sucking a little bit of fuel mileage). It seems to be better now, but the true test will come as I get back into the work week.

It was probably colder where you are. I am glad that I had my hat and gloves though. Still cold with that. I am glad to be doing campaign work though. Hopefully people are reading up on the candidates.

224
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:44:28pm

American Exceptionalism!!11!!!

225
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:44:31pm

re: #223 HappyWarrior

It was probably colder where you are. I am glad that I had my hat and gloves though. Still cold with that. I am glad to be doing campaign work though. Hopefully people are reading up on the candidates.

Last two days were 8 degrees F in the early morning. When I was out working this afternoon, it was 18 degrees. Supposed to be back in the 50’s next weekend, which means I’m going to spend some time on Mrs. Fish’s big beastie…

226
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:44:47pm

re: #175 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Video

I want to like this movie, but I am really worried that Rupert Sanders isn’t going to do the film justice - just seeing his other works I don’t think that he is capable of capturing the mood of the original 1995 anime film.

Case in point - this scene would would never find its way into one of his movies:

Ghost in the shell (Fragmento 1)

227
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:45:04pm
228
Joe Bacon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:46:10pm

re: #135 electrotek

YesI do and I remember how the press blasted Carter for being a “wimp”!

229
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:46:30pm

re: #224 Interesting Times

Pretty sure Canada uses it too.

230
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:47:02pm

re: #217 HappyWarrior

That really was the best part. I’m tired of being told we need to abandon groups that have been Democratic loyalists even in the party’s most difficult hours i.e. the early Bush years and Reagan years for people who don’t really want much to do with our party anyhow. If you’re working class white and are a staunch Democrat, you don’t apply to what I’m talking about here but to the Trump Democrats in the Rust Belt, yep I’m definitely talking about you. I have no desire to be part of a party that panders to your resentments while ignoring the concerns of our base.

IMO, the Democrats need to broaden their working class appeal with a better message and messaging on economic issues, but this has to be done with absolutely zero catering to the bigoted resentments of some in the working class. “If you really want to be a bigot, then the Republicans are the party for you.”

231
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:47:32pm
232
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:49:06pm

re: #225 thedopefishlives

Last two days were 8 degrees F in the early morning. When I was out working this afternoon, it was 18 degrees. Supposed to be back in the 50’s next weekend, which means I’m going to spend some time on Mrs. Fish’s big beastie…

Brrr.

233
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:50:13pm

re: #230 EPR-radar

IMO, the Democrats need to broaden their working class appeal with a better message and messaging on economic issues, but this has to be done with absolutely zero catering to the bigoted resentments of some in the working class. “If you really want to be a bigot, then the Republicans are the party for you.”

Yeah, I’m not saying we don’t need to improve our message to the working class but at the same time, those voters need to know, we’re not going to accommodate their resentments and we sure as hell aren’t going to make bullshit promises to them that we can’t keep.

234
Cheechako  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:50:33pm

re: #222 thedopefishlives

It was frigid cold here, but I spent an hour outside replacing the brake rotors on my daily driver. It was causing an annoying sound while driving, as well as degraded braking performance (and I suspect sucking a little bit of fuel mileage). It seems to be better now, but the true test will come as I get back into the work week.

It’s been strange weather up here in SE Alaska. For the past 3 weeks it’s been very cold. Temps in the mid 20’s during the day and 10-15 at night. It has been on the bitter side with the wind chill factor. It has been mostly sunny but still very uncomfortable to be outside. The forecast is for winds gusting up to 70 MPH tomorrow followed by 6-12 inches of snow on Monday.

Lots of degree days accumulating for the furnace oil companies.

235
Joe Bacon  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:51:36pm
236
Moebym  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:52:10pm

re: #226 Don’t Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos

Though I am a massive GitS fan, I’m frankly not excited about this movie, and undecided on whether to watch it. That they cast a white woman as Motoko doesn’t even bother me, even as an East Asian who hates that we’re not well-represented in Hollywood. It’s just that the original was so groundbreaking and influential, that I can’t think of a way in which they could possibly improve on it.

There is one live-action remake that I’m eager to see, and that’s Beauty and the Beast, which is coming out next Friday.

237
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:53:51pm

I have no idea what he’s saying but :D

238
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:55:34pm

re: #236 Moebym

Though I am a massive GitS fan, I’m frankly not excited about this movie, and undecided on whether to watch it. That they cast a white woman as Motoko doesn’t even bother me, even as an East Asian who hates that we’re not well-represented in Hollywood. It’s just that the original was so groundbreaking and influential, that I can’t think of a way in which they could possibly improve on it.

I just realized that I don’t have a copy of Ghost in the Shell (somehow I was sure I did). This must be remedied.

239
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:56:44pm
240
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 4:57:57pm

re: #230 EPR-radar

IMO, the Democrats need to broaden their working class appeal with a better message and messaging on economic issues, but this has to be done with absolutely zero catering to the bigoted resentments of some in the working class. “If you really want to be a bigot, then the Republicans are the party for you.”

Sarah Kendzior indirectly provided a blueprint for this very thing:

On August 28, 2013, America celebrated the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. Most Americans associate the march with Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech and call for racial harmony. They remember half of the targeted “twin evils” of racism and economic deprivation.

They remember the freedom, and forget the jobs. But the two are inseparable.

“If a man doesn’t have a job or an income, he has neither life nor liberty nor the possibility for the pursuit of happiness. He merely exists,” King proclaimed in 1968. Economic opportunity, he argued, is essential to human rights.

A message like that is how you tie economic populism TO racial equality instead of casting them as diametrically opposed (which is what the evil GOP does so well)

241
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:00:01pm

for the pucksports fans:

242
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:00:04pm

re: #240 Interesting Times

Sarah Kendzior indirectly provided a blueprint for this very thing:

A message like that is how you tie economic populism TO racial equality instead of casting them as diametrically opposed (which is what the evil GOP does so well)

Certainly.

244
Weaselone  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:07:36pm

There are things the Democrats could do to boost their favorability around the margins, but the poor polling says more about Americans than it does about the Democratic Party. What is says that while Navel Nero’s fiddling away on his cell phone and his minions are about out setting fires, the Americans who aren’t arsonists are either too stupid or too lazy to see what’s happening. That or they’ve decided to blame the Democrats for not conjuring a few hundred fire engines from thin air.

In other words, it’s going to take a complete and utter calamity to get people to pull their heads out of their hindquarters.

245
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:08:11pm

re: #236 Moebym

Though I am a massive GitS fan, I’m frankly not excited about this movie, and undecided on whether to watch it. That they cast a white woman as Motoko doesn’t even bother me, even as an East Asian who hates that we’re not well-represented in Hollywood. It’s just that the original was so groundbreaking and influential, that I can’t think of a way in which they could possibly improve on it.

The casting of Scarlett Johannson didn’t bother me in the least - in Shirow’s manga and Mamoru Oshii’s adaptations, it was pretty apparent that the characters and settings were very much of a futuristic international megalopolitan nature- similar to how Ridley Scott envisioned Los Angeles in Blade Runner, and in interviews, neither had any issues with the casting decisions. My concern is that it is going to be taken more into a direction of an action film - which wasn’t what Ghost in the Shell in any of its incarnations was focused on. They all were character driven, and much more focused on the psychological and technological themes.

246
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:08:41pm

re: #240 Interesting Times

Here’s an interesting bit of arithmetic. A fairly typical executive compensation in a US BigCorp is $10M per year. It’s actually a bit on the low side for CEOs, but the number used makes the math easier.

At 2000 hours in the working year, this works out to $5,000/hour. I can honestly see no justification for this kind of compensation from an organization, especially on a year after year basis.

If someone wants to earn that kind of money, they should face the free market directly. An artist who takes a hour to make something that sells for $5K legitimately earns that. If this person is so productive and talented that they can do it 2000 times in a year and score the full $10 million, more power to them.

But we all know executive compensation does not work that way, despite an entire industry of executive compensation consultants that exists to support the idea of compensating executives as if they are creative geniuses.

247
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:09:05pm

re: #244 Weaselone

There are things the Democrats could do to boost their favorability around the margins, but the poor polling says more about Americans than it does about the Democratic Party. What is says that while Navel Nero’s fiddling away on his cell phone and his minions are about out setting fires, the Americans who aren’t arsonists are either too stupid or too lazy to see what’s happening. That or they’ve decided to blame the Democrats for not conjuring a few hundred fire engines from thin air.

In other words, it’s going to take a complete and utter calamity to get people to pull their heads out of their hindquarters.

I mean. I know people think it’s wrong to bitch about the electorate but the electorate is part of the problem here. And I’m tired of people who want us to treat voters like they’re idiots. Treat them like adults.

248
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:10:46pm

re: #246 EPR-radar

Here’s an interesting bit of arithmetic. A fairly typical executive compensation in a US BigCorp is $10M per year. It’s actually a bit on the low side for CEOs, but the number used makes the math easier.

At 2000 hours in the working year, this works out to $5,000/hour. I can honestly see no justification for this kind of compensation from an organization, especially on a year after year basis.

If someone wants to earn that kind of money, they should face the free market directly. An artist who takes a hour to make something that sells for $5K legitimately earns that. If this person is so productive and talented that they can do it 2000 times in a year and score the full $10 million, more power to them.

But we all know executive compensation does not work that way, despite an entire industry of executive compensation consultants that exists to support the idea of compensating executives as if they are creative geniuses.

Not even creative geniuses - at this point, they’re just saying, “Fuck it, this guy runs the company so he should be paid more than the rest of the company.” Not even trying to disguise it anymore because, honestly, creative people don’t get paid as much as they ought to. Hell, people like Drumpf intentionally try to stiff creative people, because why should anyone make money doing something “someone they know” could/would do for free?

249
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:11:57pm

I do want to point out that our margins with working class minority voters really hasn’t changed that dramatically but you never see Sanders or those who agree with his message acknowledge that. As I said, I get why the white working class has this mythological quality to it. My family became Democrats because of the Democrats support for the working class in the early 20th century. My mom and dad’s grandfathers and uncles were steel workers, coal miners, or in my dad’s grandfather’s case an elevator operator. But a lot of those blue collar voters fell first for Nixon’s bullshit in the late 60’s, then Reagan’s, and now Trump. Are all of them bigots? Nope but does that group honestly more than people with more education get more manipulated by right wing racist populism? Yep.

250
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:12:02pm

re: #247 HappyWarrior

I mean. I know people think it’s wrong to bitch about the electorate but the electorate is part of the problem here. And I’m tired of people who want us to treat voters like they’re idiots. Treat them like adults.

But they are T_T (well, a far-too-large subset of them, at any rate. How else do you explain, durr hurr, keep your gubmint hands off mah medicare and ACA rocks, Obamacare sux?)

251
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:12:49pm
252
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:12:53pm

re: #250 Interesting Times

But they are T_T (well, a far-too-large subset of them, at any rate. How else do you explain, durr hurr, keep your gubmint hands off mah medicare and ACA rocks, Obamacare sux?)

Certainly sigh.

253
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:13:17pm

I would be more than happy earning $1 million/year.

254
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:13:50pm

re: #251 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And when it hits them, a lot of them will probably again be convinced to blame the Democrats. Sigh. We goddamn tried to warn them.

255
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:15:17pm

re: #251 Backwoods_Sleuth

That brings me back to what I asked you a few days ago re, are wingnuts in KY finally beginning to clue in. You said they’re mad at McConnell, but have they taken the next mental step and concluded the only way to save their healthcare is to vote Democrat?

256
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:15:21pm

And honestly I think a protectionist approach to trade is foolishness in this era. Trade deals do need to be looked at carefully no doubt but TPP/NAFTA are far more complicated than Trump and Sanders presented them to their voters.

257
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:15:48pm

re: #202 Shiplord Kirel

Italian band deported for illegal immigration after entering U.S. for SXSW festival

In Soviet America, ICE puts YOU in the cooler!

And this is Trump’s way of Making American Great Again.

It really is coming true.

Dystopian America really is seen as great by Trump and others.

258
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:16:50pm

re: #253 Eclectic Cyborg

I would be more than happy earning $1 million/year.

Honestly, at my current income level, even $100k/year would be a sizable increase, and I already have more than enough to fill my needs and most of my wants. I’m not even sure what I’d do with the other $900k.

259
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:16:57pm

re: #238 EPR-radar

I just realized that I don’t have a copy of Ghost in the Shell (somehow I was sure I did). This must be remedied.

I have all the films as well as both TV series (Stand Alone Complex and Solid State Society) with the exception of the prequel “Arise” movie/series - just didn’t like how it was adapted. It should be also noted that even though each of these films/series are wildly dissimilar to each other, they are all still fairly firmly rooted to the source material in nature.

260
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:17:05pm

Part of it I acknowledge is because nuanced messages don’t really sell. Make America Great Again is easier to sell to people than “We’re already great but we need to improve.”

261
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:17:11pm

re: #248 thedopefishlives

Not even creative geniuses - at this point, they’re just saying, “Fuck it, this guy runs the company so he should be paid more than the rest of the company.” Not even trying to disguise it anymore because, honestly, creative people don’t get paid as much as they ought to. Hell, people like Drumpf intentionally try to stiff creative people, because why should anyone make money doing something “someone they know” could/would do for free?

IMO US executive compensation is embezzlement made legal. The top brass literally skim off as much as they can without provoking a shareholder lawsuit, and the greed gets more and more rampant as time goes on.

Conrad Black is a creative genius of US business, since he actually managed to find a way to pay himself that was illegal under US law. One has to assume that Republicans have since made compensation in that mode legal as well.

262
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:20:24pm

re: #258 thedopefishlives

Honestly, at my current income level, even $100k/year would be a sizable increase, and I already have more than enough to fill my needs and most of my wants. I’m not even sure what I’d do with the other $900k.

A few years ago, WSj did a story about the development of the Bugatti Veyron and other super-expensive vehicles. There was a big demand at the top end of the car market for ostentatious-display-of-wealth totems.

263
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:20:29pm
264
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:21:59pm

re: #258 thedopefishlives

Honestly, at my current income level, even $100k/year would be a sizable increase, and I already have more than enough to fill my needs and most of my wants. I’m not even sure what I’d do with the other $900k.

I can see why you’re not a Republican. The obvious RWNJ use for that other $900K would be to prove that you are better than those with less.

265
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:22:35pm

re: #262 jaunte

A few years ago, WSj did a story about the development of the Bugatti Veyron and other super-expensive vehicles. There was a big demand at the top end of the car market for ostentatious-display-of-wealth totems.

See also that ‘plutonomy’ analysis from Citigroup a few years back.

266
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:22:37pm
267
Weaselone  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:24:03pm

It may just be that’s it’s the US turn lose it’s status as global hegemon and for it’s power and strength to fade. The elites, or at least those willing to do anything for political power are apparently short-sighted morons and about 2/3 of the population is either completely apathetic or just plain delusional. Hopefully, this transition is made with wimper, not a bang.

268
Eric The Fruit Bat  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:24:47pm

Here’s my article on my theoretical new party’s platform….feel free to rip it to shreds/add/modify it to your hearts content…

269
Timothy Watson  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:24:53pm

re: #246 EPR-radar

But we have Trump supports who think he’s going to look out for the “hard-working average American”.

How do you fix someone who is that stupid?

And these are the same assholes who loathe anyone that works in the service industry and thinks the minimum wage should be increased.

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

270
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:25:09pm

re: #262 jaunte

A few years ago, WSj did a story about the development of the Bugatti Veyron and other super-expensive vehicles. There was a big demand at the top end of the car market for ostentatious-display-of-wealth totems.

I just never understood the idea of flaunting one’s wealth. I believe in living practically. If I made $1M/yr, I would probably upgrade to a bit nicer house, and save back some money to buy my dream car, a Corvette L88. Outside of that, I would wear ordinary clothes and probably save a lot for my kids for college, for retirement, donating to charity.

271
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:25:29pm

re: #255 Interesting Times

That brings me back to what I asked you a few days ago re, are wingnuts in KY finally beginning to clue in. You said they’re mad at McConnell, but have they taken the next mental step and concluded the only way to save their healthcare is to vote Democrat?

The sad reality is that many Democrats in Kentucky are blue dogs (read = GOP lite). They will vote for whoever tells them what they want to hear, and that is usually related to abortion/coal/ChristianBibleThumpingWhatever/taxes (pretty much in that order).

Killing Kynect is probably going to do it this time. And when they finally wake up to the fact that those coal mining jobs are NOT COMING BACK.

272
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:25:32pm

Finally caught up on the thread, will report on my Unity March.

Probably 50 of us, lots of signs. Very very busy road in the red area of the town so we definitely made a impact.

More thumbs ups and honks than those who yelled Trump. Seriously that’s all they yelled. truuuuuump.

I’m ready for the next one.

273
HappyWarrior  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:26:34pm

re: #269 Timothy Watson

But we have Trump supports who think he’s going to look out for the “hard-working average American”.

How do you fix someone who is that stupid?

And these are the same assholes who loathe anyone that works in the service industry and thinks the minimum wage should be increased.

[Embedded content]

KtoajeNcPQFL3MUhanXOEvixMcwlYdTa6kuhhGXR/+wTCiaxtnHnmF0rWp2RROzg/odzKxROv6fJiijdQmfMMwg/Ot6TvGQv/VUC9xHmjyoYK012V885yIBzkJPTK6pVI0eIuCOtpUqgn4smJbsPYtKZcv4FzGPm7tiL84yr+prvKqRBGfXJ/J/d8D6mEvOWfB4FcBBVZzbK1NKE6q2/BaVhK11f7K5GWet51E8jLQAICMnA10VYg3JxwmK42zGLGwlsH063Dp50gQv//AhXSRr+7k9QfrHV88hH8ZPCuCh7GJ4xJ6tRMwJoOf6f9lLLUG77giGWttcv2mhFacuHzKtKtXIdCHoLqqaYLtOX3CK4MbkXnSVY9Wpj5+i1yEv5NhLceoIFJiA=

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freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:27:01pm

re: #267 Weaselone

I’m not so big on there being “turns” as far as empires…

One could make a case that all of this is just random noise in the big picture of evolution.

Perhaps some hot button - e.g., the cutting off of nursing home funding - will finally motivate more Americans to pay attention to the words and actions for whom they vote.

275
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:28:02pm

re: #253 Eclectic Cyborg

I would be more than happy earning $1 million/year.

In that WaPo article about Bannon on his rental application he said he made like (from memory) 80K a week.

They have zero connection (edited to add, pimf) to the magas.

276
Timothy Watson  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:28:17pm

re: #270 thedopefishlives

I just never understood the idea of flaunting one’s wealth. I believe in living practically. If I made $1M/yr, I would probably upgrade to a bit nicer house, and save back some money to buy my dream car, a Corvette L88. Outside of that, I would wear ordinary clothes and probably save a lot for my kids for college, for retirement, donating to charity.

Me and my brother like to joke about how much we would need to win in the lottery just to pay off our debts.

I would need $30,000 or so for college tuition mainly. He would need over $100,000 between tuition and credit card debt.

277
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:29:25pm

re: #274 freetoken

I’m not so big on there being “turns” as fas as empires…

One could make a case that all of this is just random noise in the big picture of evolution.

Perhaps some hot button - e.g., the cutting off of nursing home funding - will finally motivate more Americans to pay attention to the words and actions for whom they vote.

The pattern of empires rotting from within as their elite/ruling class finds other things to do than competently run the empire has repeated itself many times in history.

Let’s hope the US avoids that for now.

278
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:29:47pm

re: #258 thedopefishlives

Honestly, at my current income level, even $100k/year would be a sizable increase, and I already have more than enough to fill my needs and most of my wants. I’m not even sure what I’d do with the other $900k.

Our annual income is now around (usually just above) that $100k/yr, which is a HUGE increase from what it was before Obama took office. (We actually pay more in federal income taxes now than what we made before 2009.)

As for what I’d do with the other $900k if I had it…I’d get our damned road fixed properly.

279
calochortus  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:30:01pm

re: #270 thedopefishlives

I just never understood the idea of flaunting one’s wealth. I believe in living practically. If I made $1M/yr, I would probably upgrade to a bit nicer house, and save back some money to buy my dream car, a Corvette L88. Outside of that, I would wear ordinary clothes and probably save a lot for my kids for college, for retirement, donating to charity.

Yeah, $1 million a year and I’d probably get some stuff fixed up around the house, give my kids some money, sock some away and look for some good causes to support. Ostentation? Not on the menu.

280
freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:30:55pm

If my interaction with whatever Trumpers exist on my social media walls is a good indication, there are no Trumpers who have not already bought into whatever Fox/Breitbart/etc. are selling.

If that is the case, then this is a deeply ideological battle, often drawn on religious fronts.

281
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:30:56pm

re: #276 Timothy Watson

Me and my brother like to joke about how much we would need to win in the lottery just to pay off our debts.

I would need $30,000 or so for college tuition mainly. He would need over $100,000 between tuition and credit card debt.

I had a couple of bad runs with credit card debt - once when I first moved out from home, I got a little in over my head due to a higher cost of living and instability in my job. Then I had another bad run through 2015 with a few big-ticket unplanned expenses - when my car’s transmission asploded, for example - and some intentional overspending that just accumulated. I’m almost debt-free right now, will be for certain by this time next year barring another disaster, and then I’ll be able to start saving back for some nice things like our 10-year anniversary, which will be next year.

282
Weaselone  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:33:03pm

re: #274 freetoken

I’m not so big on there being “turns” as far as empires…

One could make a case that all of this is just random noise in the big picture of evolution.

Perhaps some hot button - e.g., the cutting off of nursing home funding - will finally motivate more Americans to pay attention to the words and actions for whom they vote.

I didn’t really mean it the sense of their being some sort of orderly turn or inevitability, more that the country may have reached a tipping point due to the development of a poisonous elite and deluded/toxic/apathetic populace.

283
thedopefishlives  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:34:59pm

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

Our annual income is now around (usually just above) that $100k/yr, which is a HUGE increase from what it was before Obama took office. (We actually pay more in federal income taxes now than what we made before 2009.)

As for what I’d do with the other $900k if I had it…I’d get our damned road fixed properly.

I sometimes have random freakouts because I’m still just getting my credit card debt settled (for the second time), and I’m 33, whereas my dad seemed so much better off by this stage in his life. I have to keep in mind that I still have pay raises to anticipate, which will accelerate the rate at which I can save money. To say nothing of the situational differences between myself and my father at this stage in our lives.

284
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:35:41pm

Maybe we should all get into “open source research.” Seems to be a very profitable business.

285
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:36:48pm

re: #284 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Maybe we should all get into “open source research.” Seems to be a very profitable business.

There is so much to investigate. I have to hope that someone is.

286
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:37:46pm

I would be generous with my wealth. After I was sure my family I were looked after I’d (anonymously) make sizable donations to local and national charities and movements I support.

I’d help out a few close friends who really need it and I’d probably directly give some to complete strangers (for example going to a restaurant and leaving a $500 tip or going to a gas station and paying for fillups for a few minutes).

287
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:40:57pm

Something I have noticed over these many years here in the Backwoods is that many folks look at a wealthy person and see someone who gets to live in a huge house, drive great cars, are always jetting off on vacations, never have to worry about paying bills.
And they want to have all that without having to work for it because none of the wealthy people appear to be working either.
So they see someone like Mitch McConnell whose personal wealth increases $4million every year (but never ask how that is possible) and Trump and believe them when they say “your life will be so much better if we’re in charge”.
In the meantime, they just keep bitching and griping about people on welfare while, at the same time, they buy lottery tickets, complain about their jobs (if they have them) and dream of the day they can qualify for disability payments.

I would tell them to read the novel Babbitt but the irony would be lost on them.

288
freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:42:11pm

re: #277 EPR-radar

The more I learn about “history” the more cautious I get about what is supposed to be true about the past.

For example, the current BBC documentary series on the events of 1066 goes into some detail about the other battle (not the one the Norman won) that year, in which Harald Siggurdson lost. This loss is sometimes explained as the end of the “Viking age” and that Harald himself was the “last Viking”. (Though the current BBC series has not yet made that point.)

But I don’t think such broadsides about “Vikings” really works well. In a real sense the viking age was over before Siggurdson. He himself is among the most noted of the “Vikings” and played a part in Constantinople during the tumultuous 11th century. Rather, viking (a verb) was already out of fashion. In the east it had already been two centuries since Rurik, in the west Greenland had been abandoned.

Simply put, time passed by and the old way just didn’t work as well as the new way (Christendom and all that entailed.) In this sense, there is no real beginning or end to a “Viking” age, just the ascent of a way of life a group of fighting men all wanting to be kings.

Now, how something like this applies to the US I am not sure. We are very large, very rich (in many ways.) Change here happens but more orderly (at least since the Civil War) than in many places in the world.

Perhaps, as I noted, with cuts to Medicare, retirement plans, etc., the electorate will become less lazy and rally around candidates who really are more for the average household.

Maybe.

289
Skip Intro  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:43:18pm

re: #285 Stanley Sea

There is so much to investigate. I have to hope that someone is.

Flynn is so dirty we forget what a little shitweasel his son is. They both need to be investigated. Too bad it’s never going to happen.

290
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:43:44pm

re: #280 freetoken

I know the hardcore trumpers are unreachable and would happily throw themselves off a cliff at the God-Emperor’s behest.

My concern is with all the people who couldn’t be bothered to vote (or, people who are normally apolitical but voted for trump because they were temporarily bedazzled by his celebrity and con-artist-speak).

At the risk of re-litigating the 2016 campaign yet again, this is indeed astounding:

Yes, the media gave trump a metric fuckton of free coverage and completely ignored Clinton’s policy speeches. All the more reason, however, for her campaign to have gone all-in on pro-Dem ad campaigns.

The takeaway here for 2018 (assuming things haven’t degenerated to Bannon’s wet-dream-social-breakdown by then) is, spend those fundraising dollars on combating voter suppression, talking to voters directly, and blanketing the airwaves with pro-Dem ads to make a dent in the GOP propaganda machine.

291
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:43:58pm

re: #285 Stanley Sea

There is so much to investigate. I have to hope that someone is.

292
freetoken  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:46:07pm

re: #288 freetoken

I should have been more accurate. By 1066 the Norse expansion to the west had already stopped, but a few hardy souls survived on Greenland a bit longer.

Anyway, my point was, the sun has set on the “Viking age”, but it was a soft setting, not a hard setting (there is no hard and fast date.)

293
calochortus  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:46:12pm

re: #290 Interesting Times

I know the hardcore trumpers are unreachable and would happily throw themselves off a cliff at his behest.

My concern is with all the people who couldn’t be bothered to vote (or, people who are normally apolitical but voted for trump because they were temporarily bedazzled by his celebrity and con-artist-speak).

At the risk of re-litigating the 2016 campaign yet again, this is indeed astounding:

[Embedded content]

Yes, the media gave trump a metric fuckton of free coverage and completely ignored Clinton’s policy speeches. All the more reason, however, for her campaign to have gone all-in on pro-Dem ad campaigns.

The takeaway here for 2018 (assuming things haven’t degenerated to Bannon’s wet-dream-social-breakdown by then) is, spend those fundraising dollars on combating voter suppression, talking to voters directly, and blanketing the airwaves with pro-Dem ads to make a dent in the GOP propaganda machine.

I wonder how they defined “policy?” Trump spent a lot of time with vague (and often conflicting) generalities. I’m not sure I’d call that policy.

294
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:49:47pm
295
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:52:32pm

jeebus, read Vaughn’s TL

296
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:52:43pm

re: #293 calochortus

I wonder how they defined “policy?” Trump spent a lot of time with vague (and often conflicting) generalities. I’m not sure I’d call that policy.

Here’s a link to the complete study (click the plus signs to expand different sections). They say:

The advertising tone breakdown alone, however, hides an important difference in strategy that made 2016 advertising very unusual. Namely, the majority of the Clinton campaign’s negative advertising attacked Trump’s characteristics and personality. In other words, the attack ads were personal-focused as opposed to policy-focused (Figure 8). Fewer than 10 percent of ads attacking Trump focused on his policies whereas about 90 percent was focused on Trump as an individual. Clinton’s contrast ads were similarly devoid of policy discussion. By and large, it was only in ads promoting Clinton that the campaign actually discussed policy, and those ads comprised only 30 percent of her overall mix on air. Clearly, the Clinton campaign’s strategy was to disqualify Trump based on his temperament, not on his policy positions, in ads like “Role Models” and “Mirrors” featuring Trump’s voice and children and/or young girls listening. By contrast, about 70 percent of ads from Trump and his allies that attacked Clinton contained at least some discussion of policy, and when there were contrasts drawn between the two candidates, those contrasts were almost all policy-based such as the “Two Americas” ads, which explicitly compared how Hillary Clinton’s America would differ from Donald Trump’s America.

Since ads are typically only 30 seconds long, a BS claim like “we’ll get rid of regulations and bring back the jerbzzzz” would indeed count as “policy.” (again, goes to how voters perceive it)

297
William Lewis  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:52:43pm

re: #287 Backwoods_Sleuth

I would tell them to read the novel Babbitt but the irony would be lost on them.

THE TOWERS of Zenith aspired above the morning mist; austere towers of steel and cement and limestone, sturdy as cliffs and delicate as silver rods. And then the murders began.

298
gocart mozart  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:53:38pm

DEBORAH HARRY, CHRIS STEIN, & THE FUNKY FOUR PLUS-ONE-MORE On SNL, Valentine’s Day 1981
Two great Debbie Harry songs a funny skit with Debbie and Piscopo and at the 11:00 mark the first time rap music was performed on TV Funky 4+1 (or just jump to the 7 minute mark)

299
allegro  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:53:46pm

re: #293 calochortus

I wonder how they defined “policy?” Trump spent a lot of time with vague (and often conflicting) generalities. I’m not sure I’d call that policy.

That has me scratching my head as well. He never even finished a sentence, forget articulating a policy. They must be considering “I’ll build a wall! Buhlieve me!”

300
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:54:38pm

re: #297 William Lewis

THE TOWERS of Zenith aspired above the morning mist; austere towers of steel and cement and limestone, sturdy as cliffs and delicate as silver rods. And then the murders began.

we are having way too much fun with #LaidlawsRule aren’t we?

:D

301
calochortus  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:56:41pm

re: #296 Interesting Times

Thanks. I saw very few ads for either candidate due to living in a very blue part of CA and not having cable.

302
jaunte  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:56:47pm

re: #295 Backwoods_Sleuth

Don was apparently asleep for the last eight years.

303
calochortus  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:59:02pm

BBIAB Dinner awaits.

304
Interesting Times  Mar 11, 2017 • 5:59:04pm

re: #299 allegro

That has me scratching my head as well. He never even finished a sentence, forget articulating a policy. They must be considering “I’ll build a wall! Buhlieve me!”

They gave the this ad as an example:

The Trump campaign released the ad, called “Two Americas: Economy,” Aug. 29, and said it would run in nine battleground states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida, New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada, Virginia and Colorado.

305
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:10:35pm

I really REALLY can’t stand the Trump family.

307
Joe Bacon  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:14:12pm

re: #306 gocart mozart

Well, im sure glad he didn’t show off his Nixon tattoo!

308
Eclectic Cyborg  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:14:18pm

re: #306 gocart mozart

Might need an NSFW tag on that.

309
Joe Bacon  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:15:01pm

re: #308 Eclectic Cyborg

I had to grab the Boric Acid eye wash!

310
ObserverArt  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:17:14pm

re: #302 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Don was apparently asleep for the last eight years.

Donny Jr. is in campaign mode like Donny Sr. They are running the same con so they are saying very similar things. They know they’ve already trained 40% of this country to believe them so it is as he says.

Also makes for great smoke screen for all the other shit.

I just hope the time is coming soon when enough of America grows tired of the Trump family bullshit and start to tune them out.

I know the die-hard will buy in all the time, but groups that claimed Trump spoke to them even though they were rust-belt Dems or didn’t trust Clinton enough will be first to tune them out.

311
Stanley Sea  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:30:59pm

re: #294 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

They are sooooo pissed that Favored Daughter & Jared are in the WH.

312
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:32:16pm
313
darthstar  Mar 11, 2017 • 6:35:32pm

re: #151 De Kolta Chair

Dy-uh! Forgot the NY Daily News cover

[Embedded content]

OMFG! A Tebow fan got arrested?

314
wheat-dogg  Mar 11, 2017 • 7:27:47pm

re: #226 Don’t Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos

Whoa! I’ve never seen the original anime version before. Looking at the scenery made me feel like I was looking at a photo of Hong Kong! The signs, the storefronts, the people in the second floor restaurants. Now I’ve got to watch the whole thing.

315
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 7:29:44pm

re: #296 Interesting Times

Here’s a link to the complete study (click the plus signs to expand different sections). They say:

Since ads are typically only 30 seconds long, a BS claim like “we’ll get rid of regulations and bring back the jerbzzzz” would indeed count as “policy.” (again, goes to how voters perceive it)

But this is ridiculous. Attacking Trump on policy in a campaign is pointless because he’s a bullshitter.

316
wheat-dogg  Mar 11, 2017 • 7:36:30pm

re: #238 EPR-radar

I just realized that I don’t have a copy of Ghost in the Shell (somehow I was sure I did). This must be remedied.

I’ve been trying to correct my ignorance of anime. Visiting Japan has really piqued my interest.

317
EPR-radar  Mar 11, 2017 • 7:42:13pm

re: #316 wheat-dogg

I’ve been trying to correct my ignorance of anime. Visiting Japan has really piqued my interest.

There’s a lot of really good stuff out there.


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