NPR Tiny Desk Concert: A Unique, Dazzling Performance by Penguin Cafe

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Bob Boilen | June 16, 2017 — The music of Penguin Cafe is like no other. Its origins date back to the early ’70s, within fever dreams Simon Jeffes had that were brought on by food poisoning. In those dreams he imagined a dispassionate world “where everyone lived in big concrete blocks and spent their lives looking into screens. In one room, there was a couple making love lovelessly. In another there was a musician sat at a vast array of equipment, but with headphones on, so there was no actual music in the room.” Eerily accurate.

But he also imagined a place, the Penguin Cafe, where folks could gather, for pleasure, cheer and music. He wanted to hear what that music would sound like, and so created the Penguin Cafe Orchestra. I was always a huge fan of that original music; listeners of NPR may have heard it often in-between news stories during the many years I directed All Things Considered.

While Simon Jeffes died in 1997, his son Arthur has been creating new music infused with his father’s original inspiration. He calls his group, simply, Penguin Cafe. You can hear Brazilian sounds in the rhythms, classical and minimalism in the strings, Asia in its harmonium, African sounds in the kalimbas. But honestly, it’s none of these; it’s a universal dream state.

If you’re looking to explore further be sure the listen to Penguin Cafe’s recent album The Imperfect Sea, which nods to Kraftwerk, Simian Mobile Disco and Franz Schubert. It’s none of these.

The Imperfect Sea is available now:
iTunes: itunes.apple.com
Amazon: amazon.com

Set List
“Wheels Within Wheels”
“Protection”
“Ricercar”

Musicians
Arthur Jeffes (piano, cuatro); Oli Langford (violin); Neil Codling (piano, harmonium, dulcitone, ukulele); Darren Berry (percussion); Clementine Brown (violin); Vincent Greene (viola); Des Murphy (ukulele); Andy Waterworth (double bass)

Credits
Producers: Bob Boilen, Niki Walker; Audio Engineer: Josh Rogosin; Videographers: Niki Walker, Kara Frame, Beck Harlan; PA: CJ Riculan; Photo: Claire Harbage/NPR.

For more Tiny Desk concerts, subscribe to our podcast: npr.org

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326 comments
1
Charles Johnson  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:21:59pm
2
HappyWarrior  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:23:15pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Because he wants to blame Obama. And you know what, his moronic followers will do just that.

3
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:23:34pm

*Satisfied sigh*
Fine Friday evening. One of those slightly warm breezy nights that let you relax. Quiet, perfect for friendly conversation and a cold sip. LGF and music. Yup That’ll do. For all the stress in the news and the day to day this helps us cope.

4
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:24:04pm

From the last thread:

re: #149 Unshaken Defiance

New playlist Page-Result of yesterdays call for assistance. Thanks for all the suggestions. All very subjective of course but I found some great music I had never heard. So that’s a win at least. ;-) Almost 2 hours long.

Hey! Thanks for this. (The player here doesn’t work for me, but I have it playing now in Spotify for Windows.)

It does evoke something of Progressive rock music (as a Yes fan, I can appreciate your list).

5
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:24:23pm

Bringing up the conversation from downstairs…

The Zuckerberg-shuffle - what I am calling his acting as a philanthropist without being one in actuality (at least to the scale pretended) - will easily take in a lot of marks.

6
HappyWarrior  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:24:43pm

Alright guys. Time to get some sleep.

7
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:25:14pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

Mr. Johnson is approaching 600,000 karma points here.

I wonder if it has anything to do with owning the Website? /s

8
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:28:00pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

9
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:29:48pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

Alright guys. Time to get some sleep.

No! You must stay! You may never leave again!

10
The Ghost of Senator Incitatus  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:32:41pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

WHY DIDN’T OBAMA DO ANYTING ABOUT THE THING THAT TOTALLY DIDN’T HAPPEN AND IS “FAKE NEWS” MADE UP BY THE LYING PRESS?

(It will work, though. His followers and the GOP have fully embraced solipsism: there is only the truth of the moment, as long as that “truth” allows them to feel both victimized and superior.)

11
ObserverArt  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:35:59pm

Great tunes. Each piece is a little journey.

I notice there is no credit for the cellist. Maybe she is new to the group for this appearance.

12
Targetpractice  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:36:06pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The “argument,” as others have pointed out already, is now that Obama totally knew Russia was doing this shit but “let it happen anyway.” That if was so serious that it warrants a federal investigation, why didn’t he stop it? Or raise an alarm to tell people what was going on.

This, of course, from people who at the time denied anything was happening and suggested that any talk of Russian inteference was Democrats trying to come up with an excuse for why Hillary couldn’t get elected.

13
Stanley Sea  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:37:43pm
14
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:39:19pm

The Further Adventures of Florida Man (Goes to Channel 9 in Tampa)

A Lakeland man stole a van from a worker who was getting tools out of the back … a witness saw it and followed the van to inform the police of its location.

The thief drove the van through an aviation business onto the ramp of Lakeland Airport. After running around several aircraft, he jumped onto the wing of a taxiing private plane and attempted to get inside. A cop jumped up with him and pulled him off the aircraft.

He is not a minority person, so he was arrested rather than shot (that and shooting around moving aircraft probably isn’t a good idea).

15
Dave In Austin  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:41:56pm

Whoa…

16
stpaulbear  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:44:19pm

re: #3 Unshaken Defiance

*Satisfied sigh*
Fine Friday evening. One of those slightly warm breezy nights that let you relax. Quiet, perfect for friendly conversation and a cold sip. LGF and music. Yup That’ll do. For all the stress in the news and the day to day this helps us cope.

I’m kind of fussing over catalogs this evening. I’ve decided to buy a really good turntable for my records and for my 63rd birthday (I’m starting to feel like we should enjoy stuff now because when we get old and start falling apart it’s going to be an expensive and fast chute to the bottom). The turntable that I can kind of justify is about $900 and the one I really want is $1200. I’ve never spent this much for a turntable before but I can (mostly) justify the pleasure that it’s going to bring. Screw that things that need to be repaired in the house. They can wait as I fill the house with glorious sounds!!

17
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:45:16pm

Trumplash- A painful syndrome in the head and body caused by Presidential dysfunction of the following examples

6/18 Trump: ‘I am being investigated.’ Trump lawyer: He’s not. (Trump Lawyer He is)
6/21 Trump: Russian interference is ‘all a big Dem HOAX!’
6/22 In reversal, Trump now supports Medicaid cuts
6/23 Trump Admits Russia Interfered In The Presidential Election And Blames ObamaLink

18
Stanley Sea  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:45:46pm

re: #16 stpaulbear

Go for the 1200 one.

YOLO

19
Teukka  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:49:39pm

re: #15 Dave In Austin

Whoa…

[Embedded content]

Yeah. Anything Plinian and up can and usually does generate its own weather, including massive thunderstorms.

20
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:50:26pm

re: #16 stpaulbear

Years ago I was looking at cameras. $799 vs $1499. Canon Rebel DSLR vs the then shiny new 7D. I spent the $1499. I’m not sorry I did that. Did it again years later after some paid work.

21
William Lewis  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:51:23pm

re: #18 Stanley Sea

Go for the 1200 one.

YOLO

You obviously like owls? //////////////////

22
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:52:09pm

re: #16 stpaulbear

I had a very expensive turntable once (about $600 back when $600 was worth something).

It was unfortunately destroyed in a tornado (along with the rest of my component stereo system).

I’m not quite as old, but I can’t justify to my wife spending that much on a new stereo system (that, and I don’t have that kind of money now).

23
William Lewis  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:54:00pm

re: #20 Unshaken Defiance

Years ago I was looking at cameras. $799 vs $1499. Canon Rebel DSLR vs the then shiny new 7D. I spent the $1499. I’m not sorry I did that. Did it again years later after some paid work.

The last time I had a tax refund, a couple of years ago and knowing my ex had so screwed up our taxes that I will probably never get another one, I spent it on my Telecaster and VHT tube amp. It was well spent.

24
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 23, 2017 • 9:55:53pm

re: #5 freetoken

Bringing up the conversation from downstairs…

The Zuckerberg-shuffle - what I am calling his acting as a philanthropist without being one in actuality (at least to the scale pretended) - will easily take in a lot of marks.

At least Zuckerberg represents the future rather than the past; he is in technology not real estate; he would be retraining coal miners to work in the industries of the future. Unlike Trump, he did not inherit his wealth; no one questions his actual wealth or brilliance.. However, his ethics may not be better than Trump’s, he is just as ruthless, and he certainly has no more experience in the public sector. Let’s see what his views actually are on the issues that this country faces. If he wants a political career, he should start at the state level first and see if he can control his arrogance and work with ordinary mortals.

25
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:00:07pm

When you unleash the headline writers (or editors don’t get to them first), on a story about the seventh planet:

NASA Wants to Probe Uranus in Search of Gas (goes to Yahoo)

NASA Wants to Probe Deeper into Uranus Than Ever Before (goes to Metro UK)

26
CBGB  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:02:55pm

The Devils took Hischier! Holy Shit!

…oh yeah. No one likes hockey :(

27
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:03:42pm

Unshaken Defiance: That “post-millenial progressive playlist” is really good. There’s a lot there I’ve never heard before.

28
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:04:37pm

re: #27 Anymouse

Thanks very much. I had gotten bored of a couple others. So started digging around.

29
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:04:59pm

On the other hand, did you include the rap music pizza advert in that playlist? /s

30
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:07:17pm

re: #29 Anymouse

Yeah they knew that would not be our style. Way to encourage buying Pro huh??//

31
William Lewis  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:07:32pm

re: #26 CBGB

The Devils took Hischier! Holy Shit!

…oh yeah. No one likes hockey :(

Did something happen in the National Boxing League?

(Grinning, ducking and running… )

32
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:08:25pm

re: #30 Unshaken Defiance

Yeah they knew that would not be our style. Way to encourage buying Pro huh??//

Well, I have a free account since adverts don’t actually bother me (something something grew up listening to radio in the age of Marconi or something).

33
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:15:00pm

re: #24 Hecuba’s daughter

At least Zuckerberg represents the future rather than the past; he is in technology not real estate;

I’m not so sure about that. Visiting IL, MN, and IA, Zuckerberg is travelling through the premium farmland of the world. He may just be looking to corner the global market on said farmland. 10 million acres could be had for 50 to 100 billion dollars, an amount he could probably raise.

During the past few years in Africa a revolution has occurred, to the detriment of the native wildlife, as the made-wealthy-by-oil nations, and China, have been investing into massive programs, including especially agriculture. There is a desperate need to secure 21st century food supplies for a world of 8-10 billion people.

So the big picture really is in real estate, not computers.

34
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:15:12pm

Turkey has abolished teaching evolution in classrooms.
patheos.com

35
Charles Johnson  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:21:44pm

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

36
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:23:42pm

patheos.com

Hemant Mehta writes on the fight in Rhea County, where the Freedom from Religion Foundation paid for a statue of Clarence Darrow, to stand next to the one they have of William Jennings Bryant. (Rhea County Courthouse is where the famous Scopes Monkey Trial took place.)

The county commission is in favour of the statue, as it would represent both legal giants in that very famous trial in their county.

Local people want to put the statue up on the date of the trial (next month). Local Christians are threatening violence against those who want to put up the statue. They are also misrepresenting how the statue of Darrow is being put up “without citizen input” (as if they couldn’t go to commission meetings and express their views). The commission is following the same political path as they did with the Bryant statue (so the local Christians are lying about that too.)

The persecuted majority of the county are issuing death threats against atheists in the county.

37
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:24:24pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

jSP08NlzqpDefOuASwpWOk/weddAy60919xMYqbOMs8=

38
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:25:05pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

Not unexpected, really, given how disturbed some of your stalkers are.

39
Dave In Austin  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:29:04pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

9gDUvZWaiN9dIv7bFTPyRUBLvKN4lCbJHWKRg6zUpCGhF7D4yLFDfLPJGIFch84QvB5Df5ahpeKdtRw0+u17+9nLI01isUD4HlcbvKseRTo417d+cguQcgUzhc5TjlBi

40
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:29:31pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

Q3tfPjyPXQ4XBOKp6OOn/4eRcT+iEHV6EpFHBhLM1G5TAw0/CPiIQG4cVUOvIHCWfGBK9c+rsj5jb3pit7R4zQ2TqiiPKK2WoYlgHEo0mpjzHkdWmePGXTVqP1yWyArrDE75XwilCMiyi11xsT60vLFuwnsOOhhh6zic7pq8TkU4RnVZ9z++xr0lNoB/JnjlwqCLEilGfzSrI4ZcSe0pKXsjFxdQ/YnE80HykQ4Wwm6Oyil1zqrk0/rtB8i5IpAI

41
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:34:03pm
42
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:34:57pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

9hD+ZfvaOuEXxX/Tuy1zAuErnhckfy9+LHLPOt7NYMLoKvz4RGyf1q6qUSMI5sGXiXuCwQxB8IM5rxyRneLyIphkKq7t377liHmTh2JR5+7JVavUSuV68g==

43
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:41:14pm

Here I will give my semi-annual rant about “science” documentaries.

Ok, so we all realize that a lot of stuff on TV is not so good, and in the Murdoch-era even the likes of National Geo channel does some pretty stupid stuff.

The BBC remains among the few English-language outfits that takes documentaries seriously.

But even they have been tempted to make their documentaries have less content and more fluff, more about special effects and the human interest stories. Add some drama.

Anyway, last month they did The Day The Dinosaurs Died:

dailymotion.com

Now I don’t have any real right to complain about it, given it was paid for by the citizens of the UK and I’m watching it for (near) free.

Yet I’m still frustrated about how dumbed-down it all is. Some far too simplistic descriptions. Let’s not use too many words. Even more frustrating, when a concept or word does come up often it lacks explanation.

The model here, of TV, is to entertain. The audience is allowed to be too passive. The goal of science ought to be to figure out how to ask questions, and which questions to ask.

The first big problem with the above documentary is with the word “dinosaur”. First off, not all dinosaurs died off due to the asteroid impact. We have the birds today. Secondly, what went extinct in the big die-off were not just dinosaurs but all big animals. The documentary mentions Mosasaurs, but they weren’t dinosaurs, something that ought to have been pointed out.

The key to the extinction event, which is missed in the documentary, though implied at the end, is that the environmental collapse doomed all large animals. The food web collapsed on a massive scale. Only smaller animals could survive on land, and large animals at sea that dependent upon the land food-web also were doomed.

As I noted, some dinosaurs did survive. The documentary wrongfully implies that after the asteroid event the earth became the domain of the mammals. But that is clearly wrong. After the extinction of the large dinosaurs, the small feathered ones took over. The millions of years after the extinction event became the era of the giant birds. It took millions of years for the mammals to eventually come to be a dominant force on the land, and the large birds waned.

The host Alice Roberts is a favorite in the documentary realm, and she has done some really good work in the past. But the BBC is moving their “documentaries” more and more to the entertainment-spectacular type, to compete with the myriad of programming on the cable channels no doubt.

The BBC still produces some good travel documentaries. But the “science” ones are becoming less about science and more about telling stories. This has been pushed in the past few years in so-called science journalism and education. The idea is that we humans want stories, not facts. Well, fine. But that is not science education, that is just a way to sell a product.

44
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:45:01pm

re: #43 freetoken

Would it be worth printing this up and sending it to the BBC as a letter (after editing it)?

45
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:48:22pm

re: #44 Anymouse 🌹

Would it be worth printing this up and sending it to the BBC as a letter (after editing it)?

No.

First, they didn’t make the show for me. Secondly, I didn’t pay for it (the mandatory tax in the UK does.) Thirdly they won’t care because their current strategies are made from the top down and they know what they want to do. If they wanted to make a solid science show they know how to do it - they have a very long-running weekly science show that does just that.

46
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:49:34pm

On Mr. Trump first insinuating he had a tape of his conversation with Mr. Comey, then denying it, does he not understand the FBI likely records every phone call they get? (The FBI itself is the target of plenty of threats.)

If a subpoena against the White House yields no recording, the investigators could simply request the recording from the FBI. (My understanding is Mr. Trump called the then-FBI director at his office about the Russia allegations.)

47
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:50:43pm

BBC Horizon is a very long running show that does science. Sometimes it does it very well. It, along with the PBS Nova program, are the major English language television shows that provide content to those who are so inclined.

48
William Lewis  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:51:00pm

re: #44 Anymouse 🌹

Would it be worth printing this up and sending it to the BBC as a letter (after editing it)?

Only if you are a columnist at The Times (London or New York) and could actually embarrass the head of the BBC with a bad enough review.

49
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:52:11pm

I’ve been blocked by John Schindler for some time because I brought up the time he sent dick pics to random women over the Twitter network.

50
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:52:15pm

From the wiki entry:

The down-side to Horizon’s recent focus on ‘Pure Science, Sheer Drama’ and the occasionally forced narrative this engenders has led to some accusations of dumbing down in recent years,[6][7][8] with one former editor writing a newspaper article about how the programme concentrates too much on human stories, and not enough on the science.[9]

People don’t want to think. They want to escape. That is what entertainment is for.

51
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 10:59:30pm

When it comes to art documentaries, I’d argue that the BBC has made at least a majority, perhaps a vast majority, of the quality art documentaries in English.

There just aren’t many made in the US. There is the PBS American Masters series, but other than that I can’t think of a major documentary series in the US centered on art.

Maybe a show here or there from Canada or Australia… I don’t know.

I do know that in Japan that the NHK does cover a lot of culture and art.

52
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:01:53pm

re: #48 William Lewis

Only if you are a columnist at The Times (London or New York) and could actually embarrass the head of the BBC with a bad enough review.

The closest I ever got to the BBC (aside from shortwave and the Web), was my ten minutes of fame on “Have Your Say.”

They put me on the air for a debate with the city treasurer of Scottsdale, Ariz. (The folk at the BBC when they were setting it up wanted me to go to a radio station where’d they would create a studio link. They couldn’t understand why no station here would give them the link; I had to explain on the telephone the nature of Christian hate and talk radio hate stations here. The BBC is on the right hand of the devil to those guys.)

I have a CD of the show, which the BBC kindly sent me after the debate. (It was back in 2012.)

I wound up doing my half of the debate from my telephone.

53
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:01:54pm
54
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:07:49pm

Senator Dean Heller (R-Nev) came out opposed to the Republican wealthcare plan, considering it cruel to Nevada residents that rely on Medicaid.

“I cannot support a piece of legislation that takes away insurance from tens of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Nevadans,” Heller said in a presser this afternoon.

Wonkette goes into a lengthy list of things Senator Heller is opposed to about the plan.

If the count is correct, that would be five Republicans now opposed to it (which would sink it). To be fair, the other four were opposed to it because it’s not cruel enough.

wonkette.com

55
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:14:56pm
56
Charles Johnson  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:16:10pm

WSr0eZvQg6rUVk/6H5qbfmNFUdBs/sl72+eMFj1jEVZjm4gQNNt/ITz8pFmC4qDS0t5bIfDpTjc+A2Wbv6xQtjzInyB++25T0iS61KiWic/yKJJlCRzMBV6CGQ+GxlWDGfh0KvzDiC4cj7vfwpdP2esGIp9kk96PCo8GmAucx/6UR7VWnwdheq2r2Q57ft7GzebWAyeGLmpcpqkt2Zv106ttrnnKp46TOB6Pqwi6JmskPODSRsGtmuUrFGcx6SSycAsKDRlgf54AiF7QdOQ85qKPXNLvajuwhdL2/uHGWpM=

57
freetoken  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:16:41pm

It’s been well over 3 decades ago, perhaps closer to 4, since I took a Special Relativity class (in which I didn’t do so well, but that is a long story.)

Anyway, I got a copy of the text I used, via inter-library loan. I actually got the first edition, earlier than what I had used. I think I prefer the earlier edition, from the 1960’s, from what little I remember of the edition I used in college.

I have forgotten so much. Time does that.

But reading the text has made me re-think the topic at hand, and for whatever reason, today I perhaps find it easier to follow along with the text.

Regardless, I wonder about the big picture of science education and college education. No one will ever make themselves rich by taking a SR class. You will not get a better job because of it. It almost certainly will not help you find a higher priced bit of arm-candy to accompany you to some ritzy soiree.

In other words, in our society of 2017, there is no value in studying SR. The only people who take such a class will be physics students, and most of them will never really use the subject (even if they end up engaged in doing science as a profession, which many won’t.)

Yet the mantra of “STEM”, pushed by politicians of both political parties, directly implies that education is about utilitarian value.

There is no utilitarian value in SR, unless you’re among the tiny group of people in this world working on designing particle accelerators. Even the military-designed GPS only needed someone to know a bit about relativity in the design stage. The system can now be maintained without such knowledge. If you’re the master-keeper of time (happens to be in the USN), then maybe you might need to know something about SR/GR, on rare occasion.

I think I just described about 100 job positions for a nation of 330 million.

There is a deeper social comment here that isn’t just about science but all of what we do and how we value that.

It has often been said, and my life anecdotally backs it up, that what matters in life is not so much what you know, but who you know.

And that is what our society values.

58
Pineapple Pizzagate  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:22:59pm

My favorite BBC documentary series;

Philomena Cunk’s Moments of Wonder Ep 1: Time

59
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:23:37pm

re: #57 freetoken

A good summation.

STEM, by itself, will never employ a majority of the nation. What’s required is valuing science.

My direct knowledge of things such as relativity only extends insofar as it relates to my former job as an aviation electronics technician.

In a larger sense though, the constant pressure for high schoolers to go to university, and for universities to teach only subjects that are worthwhile to business and capitalism, pretty much guarantees the decline of education. (Never mind taking money out of humanistic studies like art or music.)

Hence the VA when I took their study placement test as I was rotating out of the Navy due to disability. The areas recommended I should study (based on that test) were mathematics, chemistry, or physics. (Funny how I got an unemployable designation shortly after that, so they wouldn’t have to pay for it.)

60
Dave In Austin  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:28:48pm

re: #55 teleskiguy

There’s a comment section??

61
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:29:37pm

I shifted Spotify after the playlist ran out and went to progressive jazz (not a fan).

So one of my playlists is going now (yeah, it’s Disco):

embed.spotify.com

62
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:33:32pm

re: #60 Dave In Austin

There’s a comment section??

Of course. The comment section of that Website is sometimes useful for my Romance novel research. The only Website without a comment section is Wonkette.

63
Dave In Austin  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:33:45pm

re: #58 Pineapple Pizzagate

“Time running right through the middle bits….” Wow!

64
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:33:59pm

re: #60 Dave In Austin

There’s a comment section??

INORITE?!?

65
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:35:07pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

qDPvmjzuxX1utT4hc4sKn07aXQQG8ESypeTlSOtj0CtTKpZ1NQWjgHshGoW2a1P+OpVN9CCq3+yM9jp4ViIQY4rWhMW7FrNz38k4w2KAC684lBcY46LeMYJ4usRgPh5WbUpiRnmx0Gm0gNNhuneVCU8+zNje4pRzGqr/bt5dgb1T4ZJUBWDwJAgYS/hUVltXAGf2HAZ+TJAy7UUwcuTpiUc5xon3hOd6

66
teleskiguy  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:36:00pm

re: #65 Anymouse 🌹

BtBhI43kw06U6NkbW0tYPZ6PGQwtSXgjyR09nIer3eRPOEO/ueuhB7Z1h98F3zgBflfroMHlDDcMgpX/dLdyvhO3bRzQN8DK/BZc5fTiK1HCy2I0R8eVJlEwMVoWerDy

67
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:37:02pm

re: #66 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

V/kTqwICrJxsvuXvTl5oradgqumzuuiYey0X2cHKd+R38ml2feWvCeLYr/u45vGbDVakspxOCgFPuQ6dNwlfMf8uHVvpcH8PyFo/QfczQFCJRtOURaGtl4xy1OHhuPFl

68
Targetpractice  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:38:47pm

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: The Russia investigation is going nowhere because there’s no evidence, people are beginning to get bored of it, the media is running out of things to report, and Democrats are going to start looking bad for pushing forward with it when voters don’t care about it.

That apparently is now the argument I’m hearing from a “serious” conservative, remarkably similar to the argument made in May before Trump shitcanned Comey on the argument that people wanted the investigation to “go away.”

69
William Lewis  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:43:21pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

You did tell him that he was 84 ( or today, 85) days late with that line as you laughed in his face, right?

70
Targetpractice  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:46:16pm

re: #69 William Lewis

You did tell him that he was 84 ( or today, 85) days late with that line as you laughed in his face, right?

Pretty much. But I know when he responds, it will be to tell me that he’s sure because all the wingnut editorials he reads say that the whole thing’s a “witch hunt” and nobody takes it seriously.

71
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:50:30pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

The idea of such statements are to try to either demoralise Democrats or discount any investigations as partisan (not like the one into Bill Clinton).

My own uber-conservative regional newspaper is covering the investigations in uberRedland … so that “people aren’t interested” is nothing but BS. If the voters here weren’t interested, the newspaper wouldn’t (occasionally) report on it.

The paper is even cranking up calls for an Adrian Smith town hall. (Mr. Smith has always used telephonic town halls, because of the size of the district.)

72
Jebediah, RBG  Jun 23, 2017 • 11:53:57pm

re: #16 stpaulbear

Get the one you really want!

73
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:08:02am

Bumper sticker suggestion:

Vote No on the Health Care Ban

74
teleskiguy  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:12:05am
75
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:17:15am

Saudi Arabia Demands Qatar Shut Down Al-Jazeera (goes to Hollywood Reporter)

The closure of the Middle East’s most widely watched network is among a list of 13 demands tabled in a bid to end a major diplomatic rift.

76
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:24:51am

re: #75 Anymouse 🌹

Saudi Arabia Demands Qatar Shut Down Al-Jazeera (goes to Hollywood Reporter)

Ah, the House of Saud, such supporters of freedom and liberty, eh?

////

77
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:28:54am

The incoming chair of the House Oversight Committee (Trey Gowdy, R-So. Car.) says he is completely dropping the Russia investigation.

rawstory.com

Politico reports that Gowdy told reporters on Friday that he “wants to return the Oversight panel to its original ‘compulsory’ jurisdiction, including overseeing more mundane issues like government procurement and the Census.”

In making his case for dropping the probe, Gowdy said that he didn’t want to interfere with the work being done by special prosecutor Robert Mueller, and he suggested that the House Judiciary Committee and the House Intelligence Committee were more natural fits to investigate the scandal.

Gowdy also ruled out looking into whether Trump White House adviser Jared Kushner’s security clearance should be revoked.

(more at Raw Story)

I’m beginning to think a general strike is the way to handle this.

78
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:56:08am

re: #77 Anymouse 🌹

Can’t have a successful general strike when a huge chunk of the population still supports the enemy. Couple that with the mass firing that would happen to those trying to strike (“terrorists”) and it would be a message mess that would accomplish nada.

79
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 1:09:11am

re: #78 William Lewis

Can’t have a successful general strike when a huge chunk of the population still supports the enemy. Couple that with the mass firing that would happen to those trying to strike (“terrorists”) and it would be a message mess that would accomplish nada.

True. You need a majority of the populace outraged, and at the moment that isn’t the case.

OT: On that meme about Mitch McConnell getting government assistance for polio? Didn’t happen.

Mitch McConnell did go to FDR’s polio facility at Warm Springs, Georgia. However, FDR paid for that facility himself. It was never funded by the government, nor operated by it.

Kind of need to avoid the left-wing version of wingnut memes.

The meme in question originated with Occupy Democrats, who are known for spreading “exaggerations” if they think it will help the cause (hint, they won’t).

Hit Mitch McConnell for trying to take health insurance away from millions? Sure. Fair game because he is trying to do exactly that. But claiming he was supported by a government programme for polio that wasn’t a government programme will just get “Democrats are liars” thrown back.

That meme of Mitch McConnell should not be shared, because it’s not true. (He did contract polio, he wasn’t supported by the Federal government.)

The overwhelming majority of polio treatment and research came from state governments, not the Federal government. (Both my mother and my wife’s late mother had polio - both were supported at the time by their respective states.) The March of Dimes primarily pushed for research and state support, but didn’t do much itself.

More on Warm Springs Institute for Rehabilitation:
georgiaencyclopedia.org

80
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 1:23:37am

E-mail from the Bernie Sanders camp, with the pitch for money … (I am still signed up on his E-mail list to follow what he’s up to):

This is literally insane.

Senate Republicans are talking about passing a bill that impacts one-sixth of the American economy, that touches every single American family, and it is going through a process where perhaps a dozen Republicans are the only people in America who know what’s in this bill. They’ve kept it secret, kept it hidden, and now at the last possible second are going to rush it before the U.S. Senate to get a vote.

It’s a disgrace.

They call it a health care bill, but how can it be a health care bill when it throws 23 million people off of insurance, slashes Medicaid, and defunds Planned Parenthood? God knows what the implication of this legislation will be on our children, the elderly, and those with chronic illness.

Sometimes you have a hard time understanding what kind of world these guys are living in.

Time is running out. It is up to all of us to act in an unprecedented way. We have to think big and do everything humanly possible to make sure this horrendous piece of legislation does not become law.

So this week, I am going back on the road to visit states where there are Republican Senators who can and should vote to stop this moral abomination. I will be in Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia on Saturday and Sunday. I will be talking about how unspeakable it would be to throw millions of people off of health insurance and in the same bill give tax breaks to the rich and multinational corporations. We will share the stories of people who will be impacted by this bill.

But I will also be asking why is it that the United States is the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all of its people as a right. I will be asking why we pay far more per capita than any other nation for health care with worse outcomes and the highest prices for prescription drugs.

And I will be discussing the Medicare-for-all, single-payer legislation that I will soon be introducing in the United States Senate.

(pitch for $50 deleted)

People who cannot afford health care do not deserve to die, but that is what will happen if this bill passes. If there are rallies in your area, please attend them. Please work with me to revitalize American democracy and advance our political revolution.
Thank you for your continued support.
In solidarity,
Bernie Sanders

81
Targetpractice  Jun 24, 2017 • 1:56:21am

re: #80 Anymouse 🌹

E-mail from the Bernie Sanders camp, with the pitch for money … (I am still signed up on his E-mail list to follow what he’s up to):

[Embedded content]

Wow, he can take a position on something without slagging Democrats. Amazing.

82
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 2:14:10am

re: #81 Targetpractice

Wow, he can take a position on something without slagging Democrats. Amazing.

Maybe he’s seen the light? (Not betting on it, but we’ll see.) Perhaps Senator Sanders has finally figured out the GOP is the problem here, not the Democrats.

83
Jack Burton  Jun 24, 2017 • 2:22:00am

re: #57 freetoken

When an Near-Earth asteroid is on a collision course, it will be the STEM workers that save us. Not lawyers, politicians, religious leaders, MBAs, paper-pushing middle management, executive assistants, the unqualified cousin you hired for whatever, or people that are really good at MS Excel.

Same goes for Climate change, and more. Eventually when we get our collective heads out of our asses we will all realize the existential threat that this “all our eggs in one basket” living arrangement we have actually is. We’re on a planet with a finite lifespan, in a solar system filled with giant rocks that might hit us and a sun that will eventually turn into a red giant and then blow off it’s outer layers leaving only a white dwarf with a few charred dead worlds orbiting it.

If there’s to be any survival, it will come from STEM. The universe doesn’t care what society “values”.

84
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 2:25:44am

re: #83 Jack Burton

True enough but those STEM students will only exist in a place that values them. So we had better hope that the EU remains strong, free and valuing those students because it is obvious that the US no longer does.

85
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 2:31:05am

re: #12 Targetpractice

This, of course, from people who at the time denied anything was happening and suggested that any talk of Russian inteference was Democrats trying to come up with an excuse for why Hillary couldn’t get elected.

“I didn’t do it and stop talking about my mother”!

(I know, it’s a Cosby quote, but one of his best)

86
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 2:34:59am

The History of Anti-Vaccination Movements (shameless page promotion)

87
wheat-dogg  Jun 24, 2017 • 3:25:19am

re: #57 freetoken

Most high school physics classes never get to SR. They’re lucky to get through E&M before spring term ends. So most high school students, unless they’re in AP or an IB physics course, enter college with little exposure to SR, GR or quantum physics.

When I took calculus-based physics in college, the first term was mechanics and energy, second term was E&M, with maybe a brief intro to particle physics. Relativity and quantum mechanics were in the 300-level or higher classes.

In other words, we save the most interesting, cutting edge physics for physics majors. Everyone else mostly gets the more mundane Newtonian-Maxwellian world of physics — the same as my dad studied in high school in the 1930s!

There are some courses that accelerate students through the mundane into the esoteric more quickly. Conceptual Physics, developed by Paul Hewitt (formerly of the City College of San Francisco), was one that I used for the mathematically disinclined students who had to take physics as one of their three science credits at our high school. It’s a very readable text, if anyone is inclined to check it out. Probably in its zillionth edition by now.

{checks amazon.com}

Nope. Tenth edition. I think I was using the sixth or seventh when I ditched physics teaching to come to China.

Esoteric physics offers few job opportunities, as you mention. But, if we ever get serious about interstellar space exploration, someone on board had better know something about relativity and particle physics.

88
wheat-dogg  Jun 24, 2017 • 3:30:48am

re: #84 William Lewis

True enough but those STEM students will only exist in a place that values them. So we had better hope that the EU remains strong, free and valuing those students because it is obvious that the US no longer does.

China and India pump out STEM majors by the hundreds of thousands. One or the other will detect the asteroid, corral it into a safe orbit, and start mining the shit out of it to sell the ore to the USA — for a fair price, of course.
/

89
Alephnaught  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:14:08am

re: #25 Anymouse 🌹

When you unleash the headline writers (or editors don’t get to them first), on a story about the seventh planet:

NASA Wants to Probe Uranus in Search of Gas (goes to Yahoo)

NASA Wants to Probe Deeper into Uranus Than Ever Before (goes to Metro UK)

When Voyager passed by Uranus, there was an attempt by some to change the pronunciation to “urinous”, which was mercilessly lampooned by the satirical show Spitting Image.

Alastair Burnet - 12/7/28 - 20/7/12

90
Dave In Austin  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:14:55am
91
Dave In Austin  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:22:50am
92
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:24:54am

re: #87 wheat-dogg

My best friend in the US Navy was in a horrendous motorcycle wreck on the way to work (someone pulled out in front of him). He spent months in the hospital. Eventually the Navy decided that he wouldn’t be able to complete his career path, so they sent him to the VA to take the same placement test I took.

After that, the VA decided that physics was the thing for him. They paid for him to go to college for eight years, and even sent him on a summer internship to CERN. He now teaches at the university level.

He spent several years using a walker, but now can get around with two canes.

I got the “unemployable” shaft though for epilepsy. Apparently you can’t become a physicist or physics teacher with that.

93
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:38:43am

You know it’d be nice if I could go one day on Instagram without a pornbot attempting to follow me.

94
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:40:32am

re: #91 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

Terrific op-ed.

95
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:40:52am

Apparently the police will lie even when they shoot one of their own.

stltoday.com

The article talks about a stolen car chase that ended in a wreck in front of an African-American off-duty cop’s house.

At Barnes-Jewish Hospital early Thursday, Interim Police Chief Lawrence O’Toole told reporters the off-duty officer had come out of his home to help after the stolen car crashed nearby, and was hit in the crossfire between officers and suspects who had been in the car.

But police now say the off-duty officer was shot by a fellow cop who did not recognize him as an officer, in a separate encounter away from the initial crash.

According to a department summary of the incident released later Thursday, two officers who encountered the armed off-duty officer ordered him to the ground. He complied. When they recognized the off-duty officer, they told him he could stand up and walk toward them.

Another officer just arriving at the scene saw the off-duty officer get up and, not knowing he was an officer, fired his weapon once at the man. He hit the off-duty officer in the arm, the department said.

(More at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch)

96
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:43:09am

re: #93 HappyWarrior

You know it’d be nice if I could go one day on Instagram without a pornbot attempting to follow me.

I edited a novel about a pornbot once, but the pornbot was an android, not comments on an Android.

97
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:47:38am

re: #96 Anymouse 🌹

I edited a novel about a pornbot once, but the pornbot was an android, not comments on an Android.

A buddy of mine used to write erotic stories as filler for porno magazines. He said that the editors sent back one of his stores, because his description of the use of a quirt displayed some technical errors in its use, and the magazine’s discriminating readers might notice and object.

98
jeffreyw  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:48:23am

Imgur
Good Morning!

99
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:48:28am

An article at Drudge Report:

RAND PAUL: Insurance should be available for $1 a day…

Gee, if we only had an organisation that could arrange that … perhaps one that spans the whole country … it could enrol everyone in the nation perhaps … I think it’s based in Washington DC… .

100
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:49:12am

re: #95 Anymouse 🌹

Apparently the police will lie even when they shoot one of their own.

stltoday.com

The article talks about a stolen car chase that ended in a wreck in front of an African-American off-duty cop’s house.

(More at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch)

It demonstrates how hard-wired certain responses are among these officers.

101
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:53:03am

re: #96 Anymouse 🌹

I edited a novel about a pornbot once, but the pornbot was an android, not comments on an Android.

Haha it’s just so annoying. I don’t post a ton but it’s a good way for me to see new photos of my niece and younger cousins.

102
Weaselone  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:56:41am

re: #99 Anymouse 🌹

An article at Drudge Report:

Gee, if we only had an organisation that could arrange that … perhaps one that spans the whole country … it could enrol everyone in the nation perhaps … I think it’s based in Washington DC… .

I’ve seen progressives/liberals respond positively to this comment by Rand. It’s because they are misinterpreting what he is actually saying. He is not really suggesting that everyone have access to insurance that will cover some reasonable baseline level of medical care. He’s saying that anyone should be able offer a policy that covers a bottle of aspirin and a bullet, charge a dollar a day for it and call it health insurance.

103
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 4:59:03am

re: #102 Weaselone

I’ve seen progressives/liberals respond positively to this comment by Rand. It’s because they are misinterpreting what he is actually saying. He is not really suggesting that everyone have access to insurance that will cover some reasonable baseline level of medical care. He’s saying that anyone should be able offer a policy that covers a bottle of aspirin and a bullet, charge a dollar a day for it and call it health insurance.

Paul and father: Conning gullible lefties since forever.

104
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:01:01am

re: #101 HappyWarrior

Haha it’s just so annoying. I don’t post a ton but it’s a good way for me to see new photos of my niece and younger cousins.

We do it the old-fashioned way here. After taking photos with the digital camera, we have what photos we want printed and mail them to people.

Or shorter, use the Polaroid and mail those.

105
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:02:58am

re: #104 Anymouse 🌹

We do it the old-fashioned way here. After taking photos with the digital camera, we have what photos we want printed and mail them to people.

Or shorter, use the Polaroid and mail those.

Heh yeah but you know how it is now. Plus it’s a neat app. I still do love my digital camera though.

106
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:05:12am

re: #102 Weaselone

I’ve seen progressives/liberals respond positively to this comment by Rand. It’s because they are misinterpreting what he is actually saying. He is not really suggesting that everyone have access to insurance that will cover some reasonable baseline level of medical care. He’s saying that anyone should be able offer a policy that covers a bottle of aspirin and a bullet, charge a dollar a day for it and call it health insurance.

Oh, I’m aware of that. Rand Paul isn’t apparently aware of this thing we have called “Medicare” that could do that for everyone and already exists.

107
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:06:33am

re: #102 Weaselone

I’ve seen progressives/liberals respond positively to this comment by Rand. It’s because they are misinterpreting what he is actually saying. He is not really suggesting that everyone have access to insurance that will cover some reasonable baseline level of medical care. He’s saying that anyone should be able offer a policy that covers a bottle of aspirin and a bullet, charge a dollar a day for it and call it health insurance.

I had something like that back when I was young and strapping and had not needed to visit a doctor for years on end: cost $60 a month with a $5,000 deductible. It was not really health insurance, it was bankruptcy insurance in the event that I got run over by a truck or something…

108
451_Montag  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:12:17am

One thing that is bugging me.

Why does everyone seem to believe BLOTUS when he says there are no tapes? He lies about everything else.

The Dems just seem to have no backbone. They need to push back on shit like this. No republican will ever accept a denial from anyone on the left, why should we?

Every talking head should be out there not accepting his word. The message should simply be that every time he commits Tweason (treason via twitter) so why believe him now? Supoena the living fuck out of him.

109
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:12:55am

re: #105 HappyWarrior

Heh yeah but you know how it is now. Plus it’s a neat app. I still do love my digital camera though.

You’re not left with the age-old problem of “I’m out of film.”

Now it’s “the batteries are dead.”

110
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:14:21am

re: #109 Anymouse 🌹

You’re not left with the age-old problem of “I’m out of film.”

Now it’s “the batteries are dead.”

Oh I took photography in high school, I know about that. I know I also like not having to go to the dark room.

111
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:15:52am

re: #87 wheat-dogg

Easy solution these days: The finest freshman Physics course ever taught as taught by one of the greatest physicists of the 20th Century -

feynmanlectures.caltech.edu

112
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:16:41am

What a steaming pile of crap.

We Are Inches from a New World War and Clintonists Are to Blame (goes to Medium)

113
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:17:44am

re: #110 HappyWarrior

Oh I took photography in high school, I know about that. I know I also like not having to go to the dark room.

I miss the dark room deeply. There is nothing in this world like watching an 8x10 negative come out of the soup.

114
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:19:57am

re: #112 Anymouse 🌹

I was reading about Saudi Arabia’s list of demands on Qatar and reminded of the list of demands that Austria-Hungary presented to Serbia in June of 1914…and that all it would take is one assassination attempt against a Saudi crown prince and our system of alliances will set in motion a process leading to WW3….

and it will be blamed on Clinton and Obama.

115
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:25:13am

re: #113 William Lewis

I miss the dark room deeply. There is nothing in this world like watching an 8x10 negative come out of the soup.

I appreciate it but digital photography lends itself better to someone like myself with dexterity issues.

116
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:27:52am

re: #112 Anymouse 🌹

What a steaming pile of crap.

We Are Inches from a New World War and Clintonists Are to Blame (goes to Medium)

It’s always the Clintons fault. Pathetic. She’s not in office. Funny how it’s okay to blame her for everything but she’s not allowed to speak her mind either. Aside from reading more about her, the deranged hatred towards this woman made me a supporter. She can literally do no right in a lot of eyes even though she’s accomplished a lot of good.

117
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:28:32am

re: #114 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I was reading about Saudi Arabia’s list of demands on Qatar and reminded of the list of demands that Austria-Hungary presented to Serbia in June of 1914…and that all it would take is one assassination attempt against a Saudi crown prince and our system of alliances will set in motion a process leading to WW3….

and it will be blamed on Clinton and Obama.

Not a bad analogy tbh.

118
Shiplord Kirel  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:31:20am

Religious Right Issues Another Urgent Call To Prayer To Fight Anti-Trump Witchcraft

Charisma, a media outlet for conservative Pentecostal Christians, published an “urgent call to prayer” this week. The emergency? “Thousands of witches gathered at midnight Wednesday to cast spells on President Donald Trump as part of a summer solstice ritual.”

The magazine called its prayer warriors to attention in response to online articles about a community of people using the hashtag #MagicResistance:

119
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:34:14am

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

Religious Right Issues Another Urgent Call To Prayer To Fight Anti-Trump Witchcraft

There was a casting of spells Wednesday night and I wasn’t invited?!?! Okay humor aside, this is what we’re dealing with here guys, people who literally think Trump’s detractors are witches. The way the fundie churches have accepted Trump amuses the hell out of me but then again I bet those who remembered Reagan as an actor were equally bewildered.

120
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:36:56am

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

Religious Right Issues Another Urgent Call To Prayer To Fight Anti-Trump Witchcraft

Saw that, but you beat me to it.

Can we vote them off the island?

121
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:37:45am

re: #119 HappyWarrior

There was a casting of spells Wednesday night and I wasn’t invited?!?! Okay humor aside, this is what we’re dealing with here guys, people who literally think Trump’s detractors are witches. The way the fundie churches have accepted Trump amuses the hell out of me but then again I bet those who remembered Reagan as an actor were equally bewildered.

I wasn’t aware Reagan stopped acting after he was elected.

122
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:37:47am

re: #120 Anymouse 🌹

Saw that, but you beat me to it.

Can we vote them off the island?

No turn them into newts! We are witches after all.

123
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:37:59am

re: #121 Anymouse 🌹

I wasn’t aware Reagan stopped acting after he was elected.

Oh snap.

124
Shiplord Kirel  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:39:36am

My brother Tim (21 years younger than I am) posted this on FB this morning:

You will not believe what just happened… I pulled into Fastrip to get gas and a drink. When I walked up and noticed these 2 PD officers watching a woman who was smoking while pumping gas.. I saw her & thought, “Is this lady stupid or crazy?!! With the police right there too?!”
But anyway, I went inside and got my drink. As I was checking out, I heard someone screaming.. I looked out the window & the woman’s arm was on fire! She was swinging her arm & running around going crazy! I ran outside & the officers put her on the ground & were putting the fire out with their Monsters!!
Then they put handcuffs on her & threw her in the police car.. I was thinking “what kind of person smokes near a gas pump?!” But being the nosy person that I am, I asked the cops what they were arresting her for…The officer looked me square in the eyes & said … “WAVING A FIREARM!”
Now, which of my friends will actually read this to the end!

I have duly ordered him to go to his room.

125
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:44:28am

re: #124 Shiplord Kirel

I am so glad I checked this one​ more time B4 going to sleep. Thanks for that one​, I have to use it on my son.

126
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 5:51:39am

washingtonpost.com

The Washington Post in high snark in the opinion pages: Give the Senate Health Care Bill a Chance: It Gives Vital Succor to So Many

Frankly, I think we are being unfair to the Senate version of the health-care bill. Too much time has already been spent on all the problems it creates — for the indigent, the pregnant, the elderly, those who depend on Medicaid. But what about the problems it solves?

We are taking those too lightly, I feel. The Affordable Care Act placed a great burden on a great many people, and the Senate bill seeks to relieve their sacrifice.

Think of the families teetering at the steep pinnacle of the income distribution, wondering whether their finances will stretch to cover a lifesaving surgery for their purebred dressage horse. Thanks to the tax breaks this bill offers, they can rest assured that Dick Whittington Lord Mare Of London will get a replacement knee and continue to dance merrily over the course.

This is not just a tax break for the wealthy. It may well be the difference between life and death for countless sports cars and golf tourneys across America. Before, their money was wasted on dialysis for strangers who might possibly not even understand the finer points of badminton. Now that money is being restored, and it will go where it is most needed.

(More at the Post)

127
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:02:06am

re: #126 Anymouse 🌹

Snark aside, the reality is that people don’t quite get what this bill truly does.

It isn’t just destroying Obamacare.

It’s destroying health coverage and the health care delivery system as we know it. Am I being hysterical in that description?

In a word? No.

Medicare/Medicaid provides coverage to about 35% of the population of the US. Employer based coverage is 50%.

That’s 85% of coverage. GOP is gutting the 35% and screwing 50% by making their coverage far more costly by enabling insurers to jack up premiums for people with preexisting conditions and once again bring people to medically induced bankruptcies along with the providers who will face far more indigent care cases than now.

One of the key things Obamacare did was reduce indigent care (people seeking care with no way to pay). That means hospitals, which were a place for last resort for these people, could now get proper reimbursement for those cases rather than jacking up costs to everyone else. It helped stabilize health care delivery in many parts of the country.

The GOP doesn’t care about any of this.

They keep lying about all of what they’re doing. We need more than just sunlight as disinfectant. We need to nuke their Trumpcare proposals and destroy it for what it is - an attempt to write out the safety net that most Americans expect to be there.

After all, everyone gets old and will likely require nursing care at some point. Trumpcare shifts all those costs on to the people who can’t afford it.

Oh, and Obamacare also led to a big increase in health care employment, because people were now able to afford care and coverage. Trumpcare would reverse this, and lead to serious upheaval around the nation.

128
wheat-dogg  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:08:12am

re: #127 lawhawk

The GOP doesn’t care.

I edited your comment down to the key concept.

GOPDontCare will be a disaster if it’s passed. We need to make sure everyone knows who to blame for the disaster.

129
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:11:08am

re: #128 wheat-dogg

And use the video of them laughing their asses off in the Rose Garden after the House passed the bill. Start running ads now and target every last one of those mofos. All of them.

Every seat matters - make them own that they’re destroying health coverage for all Americans except those who can truly afford it - the rich.

130
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:11:19am
131
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:16:03am

I never realized I had a deep desire to learn the Beverly Hillbillies theme song.

132
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:16:48am

re: #130 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

It’s a disgrace that the VP is speaking to those clerical fascist assholes but then again he’s one himself.

133
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:17:41am

Criminal Convictions in the Last Fifty Years, by presidential administration.

motherjones.com

Score from LBJ forward: Republicans 89, Democrats 1.

Both sides, I guess.

134
PhillyPretzel  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:18:11am

re: #131 Amory Blaine

Right now on my local PBS station has Classical Rewind. When I renew my membership I think I will take that as my premium.

135
Weaselone  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:20:12am

re: #112 Anymouse 🌹

What a steaming pile of crap.

We Are Inches from a New World War and Clintonists Are to Blame (goes to Medium)

Rogue Journalist = “Journalist” that needs regular checks from Moscow to keep the lights on and the toast topped with avocado.

136
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:20:14am

Morning,

There was a LGF member (Jenner7?) asking why the Democrats don’t fight back with some ads on TV. I put up video of an AARP ad that has been running in Ohio for a couple weeks.

Last night I got an email from the DNC/Tom Perez announcing a video they will be running. Of course the email also asked for donations. I’m going to chip in and give them a few dollars, can’t afford much, but it is the thought that counts.

Here is a YouTube of the commercial. It’s kind of mild. I wonder if they made it like this so as to stay away from any controversy. I would hit a bit harder, but then maybe that is the territory of PACs to be meaner, like the Republican PACs.

“That’s the group.”

137
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:21:24am

re: #129 lawhawk

And use the video of them laughing their asses off in the Rose Garden after the House passed the bill. Start running ads now and target every last one of those mofos. All of them.

Every seat matters - make them own that they’re destroying health coverage for all Americans except those who can truly afford it - the rich.

Heh, I didn’t see your comment or I would have quoted it with my last comment. The ad is right to your desire.

138
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:22:19am

re: #136 ObserverArt

It’s a start.

I’d cut that ad to focus on every last mofo at the Rose Garden gathering - highlighting their presence in laughing and cheering at their success in eliminating coverage for millions of people, including XX,XXX in their state or district. We have the ability to tailor ads with that kind of specificity due to various groups doing the math down to the state/district level.

139
darthstar  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:39:00am
140
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:41:19am

White House Says Trump Tweet Meets Comey’s Records Request for Tapes
reuters.com

Trump really doesn’t understand this “government” stuff, does he?

The White House said in a letter on Friday that a tweet by President Donald Trump on Thursday was the formal answer to a request by the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee for information about records of conversations with fired FBI Director James Comey.

The letter to Republican Representative Mike Conaway, who is leading the panel’s investigation into Russian interference to the 2016 election, and Representative Adam Schiff, the committee’s top Democrat, said: “In response to the committee’s inquiry, we refer you to President Trump’s June 22, 2017, statement regarding this matter.”

(More at Reuters)

141
FormerDirtDart  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:44:02am
142
lawhawk  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:44:30am

re: #140 Anymouse 🌹

No, they don’t.

His tweets are already evidence in federal courts - 9th Circuit used his statements as evidence against the Muslim ban.

His statements on Twitter are official pronouncements, and need to be treated as such.

And they can and will be used against him. Because they show just how unhinged, incompetent, and destructive he is.

143
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:52:45am

Anthony Kennedy Retirement Watch at Fever Pitch
cnn.com

The “article” is nothing but photos of Anthony Kennedy’s life, so the title is not much more than clickbait. There is no article other than the photos.

144
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Jun 24, 2017 • 6:55:21am

Morning Lizardim.

145
kirkspencer  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:08:36am

re: #127 lawhawk

Snark aside, the reality is that people don’t quite get what this bill truly does.

It isn’t just destroying Obamacare.

It’s destroying health coverage and the health care delivery system as we know it. Am I being hysterical in that description?

In a word? No.

Medicare/Medicaid provides coverage to about 35% of the population of the US. Employer based coverage is 50%.

That’s 85% of coverage. GOP is gutting the 35% and screwing 50% by making their coverage far more costly by enabling insurers to jack up premiums for people with preexisting conditions and once again bring people to medically induced bankruptcies along with the providers who will face far more indigent care cases than now.

One of the key things Obamacare did was reduce indigent care (people seeking care with no way to pay). That means hospitals, which were a place for last resort for these people, could now get proper reimbursement for those cases rather than jacking up costs to everyone else. It helped stabilize health care delivery in many parts of the country.

The GOP doesn’t care about any of this.

They keep lying about all of what they’re doing. We need more than just sunlight as disinfectant. We need to nuke their Trumpcare proposals and destroy it for what it is - an attempt to write out the safety net that most Americans expect to be there.

After all, everyone gets old and will likely require nursing care at some point. Trumpcare shifts all those costs on to the people who can’t afford it.

Oh, and Obamacare also led to a big increase in health care employment, because people were now able to afford care and coverage. Trumpcare would reverse this, and lead to serious upheaval around the nation.

My two cent guess about where the the GOP supporters will feel the pain?

Mom and/or Dad coming back from the home to live with them because the facility no longer gets medicaid checks. Most of them with medical service needs ranging from diet and meds to severe alzheimers and mobility issues. “Because you voted for the people who said they’d end ACA. Because her emails. Here’s your bedpan.”

146
darthstar  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:09:04am

Image made for the meme machine

147
FormerDirtDart  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:17:49am

Hint: It’s the tanning tax

148
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:18:33am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I had something like that back when I was young and strapping and had not needed to visit a doctor for years on end: cost $60 a month with a $5,000 deductible. It was not really health insurance, it was bankruptcy insurance in the event that I got run over by a truck or something…

In the 1970’s, before I knew him, my late husband had lost his job but knew enough to purchase exactly that type of policy. One day he was riding his bike on the path next to Lake Michigan, something went wrong, and he was thrown, suffering serious head injuries. The insurance paid for the major surgeries and hospitalization that followed. This was in the pre-COBRA and pre-bike helmet days. Few young people have the money and/or the wisdom to make this type of choice. And many cannot afford the deductible if they do require care.

OTOH, women who are young and healthy routinely require more expensive medical care — which is clearly why the 13 men don’t think that maternity coverage should be an essential benefit

149
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:23:33am

re: #147 FormerDirtDart

Society for the Promotion of Skin Cancer got their bit.

150
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:24:07am

re: #148 Hecuba’s daughter

OTOH, women who are young and healthy routinely require more expensive medical care — which is clearly why the 13 men don’t think that maternity coverage should be an essential benefit

13 men seems to be in question. Reports make it seem like there was 1 man and he kept the other 12 in the dark too. And that one guy is betting his party on this gamble. The pundits are debating if he is serious with this bill or wants it to go down in flames so he can say to the crazy base “we tried” and we need to move on. Who is that one guy…of course, it’s Mitch McConnell.

151
makeitstop  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:27:26am

re: #4 Anymouse 🌹

From the last thread:

Hey! Thanks for this. (The player here doesn’t work for me, but I have it playing now in Spotify for Windows.)

It does evoke something of Progressive rock music (as a Yes fan, I can appreciate your list).

I added one of my favorite bands to the thread, since I missed when the list was compiled yesterday.

152
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:27:33am

Some incidents make it hard to deny the bigotry that is baked in our society.
cbsnews.com

White St. Louis police officer shoots off-duty black officer

According to the police statement, the armed suspects then fled on foot. Meanwhile, an off-duty officer who lived near where the crash occurred came outside with his department issued firearm after hearing the commotion.

Two officers “challenged the off-duty officer and ordered him to the ground,” the department said. The officer complied and once they recognized him the on-duty officers told him “to stand up and walk toward them.”

At about the same time, another officer who had just arrived on the scene saw what was happening and “fearing for his safety and apparently not recognizing the off-duty officer, discharged a shot, striking the off-duty officer in the arm.”

153
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:27:47am

re: #150 ObserverArt

13 men seems to be in question. Reports make it seem like there was 1 man and he kept the other 12 in the dark too. And that one guy is betting his party on this gamble. The pundits are debating if he is serious with this bill or wants it to go down in flames so he can say to the crazy base “we tried” and we need to move on. Who is that one guy…of course, it’s Mitch McConnell.

The problem is that the GOP’s crazy base won’t just “move on”. They’ll keep pushing it, ad infinitum.

154
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:27:56am
155
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:29:13am

Justin Trudeau to march in tomorrow’s Toronto Pride Parade.
cbc.ca

156
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:30:35am

re: #152 Unshaken Defiance

Some incidents make it hard to deny the bigotry that is baked in our society.
cbsnews.com

The good part is that this time the shooting did not prove lethal to the victim, either because the officer was a good enough shot to target the arm or the officer was a bad shot who missed a far more damaging location.

157
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:32:18am

re: #156 Hecuba’s daughter

The good part is that this time the shooting did not prove lethal to the victim, either because the officer was a good enough shot to target the arm or the officer was a bad shot who missed a far more damaging location.

Always glad when everyone can recover. Kinda wish the lesson would stick more.

158
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:32:46am

re: #129 lawhawk

Let’s not forget the photo of the dolly stacked with cases of Bud Light in the Senate hallway.

159
Anymouse 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:34:50am

Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah) says the current Senate healthcare bill is terrible, but he might vote for it.
lee.senate.gov

Kabuki theatre.

160
Hecuba's daughter  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:35:37am

re: #150 ObserverArt

13 men seems to be in question. Reports make it seem like there was 1 man and he kept the other 12 in the dark too. And that one guy is betting his party on this gamble. The pundits are debating if he is serious with this bill or wants it to go down in flames so he can say to the crazy base “we tried” and we need to move on. Who is that one guy…of course, it’s Mitch McConnell.

It all depends on what pressure Mitch places on the holdouts: if he allows everyone to vote their “conscience”, maybe he wants it to fail; if, instead, he actually applies pressure to secure their vote, then it’s clearly a false narrative.

My view is that he wants this to pass; he is a sociopath who cares nothing about average people and will do anything to help the wealthy.

161
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:35:59am

re: #159 Anymouse 🌹

Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah) says the current Senate healthcare bill is terrible, but he might vote for it.
lee.senate.gov

Kabuki theatre.

“Well, this bill, as presented, is shit. But the black man in the White House was worse, so I’ll vote for it.”

162
makeitstop  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:42:19am

re: #131 Amory Blaine

I never realized I had a deep desire to learn the Beverly Hillbillies theme song.

Flatt & Scruggs, man. That’s some fine pickin’.

163
Ace-o-aces  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:50:19am
164
Eventual Carrion  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:51:09am

re: #36 Anymouse 🌹

patheos.com

[snip]

The persecuted majority of the county are issuing death threats against atheists in the county.

Well, as god commanded, “Thou shall kill.”

165
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:52:47am

re: #154 jaunte

166
PhillyPretzel  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:54:02am

I just came back from grocery shopping and the oak that was blocking the street is gone. Well almost gone the stump and root ball are still there. I updated the page that I made for the oak.

littlegreenfootballs.com

167
Timothy Watson  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:55:27am

re: #165 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Fuck your feelings, tone police.

168
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:57:17am

Ha, Carrier workers complaining about lost jobs? Suck it up snowflakes. No one is entitled to a job.

169
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 7:58:50am

re: #168 Amory Blaine

Ha, Carrier workers complaining about lost jobs? Suck it up snowflakes. No one is entitled to a job.

So much winning, they’re sick of all the winning.

170
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:01:02am

The only way conservative dummies learn, if they’re capable of learning, is a dose of their own medicine. Pound sand welfare fucks.

171
makeitstop  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:10:17am

1) - Conwoman keeps bringing up collusion without prompting in this video without answering a simple question that is asked four times, and

2) - she looks like that job is literally killing her.

172
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:20:48am
173
Unshaken Defiance  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:21:02am

Heh.

174
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:21:27am
175
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:23:05am
176
nines09  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:23:09am

Broken down and explained. What a total fraud this is. Horrible for everyone.

177
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:26:25am
178
Eventual Carrion  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:26:30am

re: #120 Anymouse 🌹

Saw that, but you beat me to it.

Can we vote them off the island?

No, they’re the amusing ones at least.

179
Eventual Carrion  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:37:52am

re: #131 Amory Blaine

I never realized I had a deep desire to learn the Beverly Hillbillies theme song.

I was searching out some Earl Scruggs a couple weeks ago and came across this. Don’t know how I could have missed hearing it for this long.

Artist: Earl Scruggs || Song: Passin’ Thru (with Don Henley & Johnny Cash)

180
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:44:51am

re: #173 Unshaken Defiance

Heh.

[Embedded content]

Scandal! //

181
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:49:01am

re: #179 Eventual Carrion

I was searching out some Earl Scruggs a couple weeks ago and came across this. Don’t know how I could have missed hearing it for this long.

[Embedded content]

Video

I ‘m so bad with names these days. I sold a bike last week to someone named Scruggs (only spelled differently), and I thought, ‘Damn, that name looks familiar.’ (They all do.) I looked back through my tags and saw that I sold another bike to that family 5 years ago. I don’t think (now) that it was the first time I saw that name.

That’s an outstanding song.

182
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:52:30am
183
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:52:47am

Good morning!

184
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:53:50am

No pettiness too small if it pays the rich a few more cents.

185
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:55:29am

re: #184 jaunte

[Embedded content]

No pettiness too small if it pays the rich a few more cents.

The Party of Assholes.

186
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 8:56:20am

re: #182 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

So lemme get this straight. That stink over the mandate? Yeah……….. Seriously fuck the GOP. That party needs to go the way of the Whigs and Federalists.

187
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:00:13am

NYC Lizards will enjoy this:

Image: kh0xnp88te2z.jpg

188
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:02:43am

re: #184 jaunte

[Embedded content]

No pettiness too small if it pays the rich a few more cents.

I don’t believe in hell, but if there is one, every one of these bastards deserves a front-row seat.

189
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:04:47am
190
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:05:59am

re: #189 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

From Russia With Love?

191
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:06:36am

re: #188 Ace Rothstein

I don’t believe in hell, but if there is one, every one of these bastards deserves a front-row seat.

What makes them so vile IMO is not merely this kind of legislation but convincing so many of their fellow Americans to screw over others.

192
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:07:33am
193
plansbandc  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:08:24am

re: #130 lawhawk

Persecuted people = American Christians who are forced to sell flowers to or bake cakes for the gays.

194
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:12:17am

re: #192 Joe Bacon 🌹

[Embedded content]

I really get tired of patronizing bs. Okay, if you don’t want to call names fine but it’s an emotional issue for many people damn it.

195
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:13:15am

re: #193 plansbandc

Persecuted people = American Christians who are forced to sell flowers to or bake cakes for the gays.

It’s just downright tyrannical. The may have to exchange cash with people who are the gay!

196
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:14:25am

Being civil in the face of greed-crazed cruelty is the new centrism.

197
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:16:51am

re: #168 Amory Blaine

Ha, Carrier workers complaining about lost jobs? Suck it up snowflakes. No one is entitled to a job.

I was just doing some more reading about Carrier. Maybe this is a sign. You know how they say never read the comments. Well, I haven’t read them all, but so far this is an article where you can read the comments.

Here is the article, a link and just one of the comments.

CBS News - Carrier workers facing layoffs feel betrayed by Trump

INDIANAPOLIS — A promise made before Christmas is fizzling before the Fourth of July.

In December, then-President-elect Trump told hundreds of workers at the Carrier manufacturing plant that he had worked out a deal to save their jobs.

But it’s not working out that way. A steady downpour today did little to wash away the fact that the jobs of 600 union employees are going south.

“They’re going to Monterrey, Mexico,” said Robert James, president of the local union.

Reynolds said he felt betrayed, since Mr. Trump told workers during his December visit to the plant that 1,100 jobs would be saved.

“And by the way, that number is going to go up very substantially as they expand this area, this plant,” Mr. Trump said. “So the 1,100 is going to be a minimum number.”

Blasting companies for moving American jobs abroad was a feature of the Trump campaign, and saving the Carrier jobs was touted as a sign of Mr. Trump’s bargaining prowess.

“You’re going to have a good Christmas,” he said at the plant.

But the truth is that 400 of the 1,100 jobs Mr. Trump mentioned were white-collar positions that were never going away.

Only 700 union jobs were saved. Six hundred others will be lost, and Carrier is not paying a price. The company actually received a $7 million incentive package from Indiana to keep the plant open with a reduced work force.

“That is what he said was not going to happen,” James said. “That’s what he told all of us.”

“And a lot of these people voted for Mr. Trump” with the understanding that he would save their jobs, James added.

Duane Oreskovic voted for the president, and is among those losing their jobs.

“I liked this job. This was a job that I actually wanted to retire from,” Oreskovic said. “It’s not going to happen any more.”

At the White House Friday, press secretary Sean Spicer said the job cuts here were long-planned and nothing new.

The first round of layoffs will take effect next month, and the second in December — three days before Christmas.

Comment:

MOLIMELIGHT 30 minutes ago
Rubes. The basket of deplorables is waking up to the fact that they have been had by a pro at working the long con. I worked on the assembly line at a Chrysler plant in St. Louis for six years. We had mandatory overtime at 60 hours a week for the entire six years. Made good money, had good healthcare, and strong union representation despite the fact that we had to make a deal with Chrysler to save it from bankruptcy due to bad decisions made by management. Even through all of that with the union working hard to save our jobs there were still people who worked on that line who were anti-union and voted Republican. Somehow they found a way to believe that they would still have their jobs their pay and their healthcare without the union and their tax situation would be better under a Republican administration. They clung to their bigotry, their guns and their religion and consistently voted against their own best interests because they had been taught to hate the liberal left wing commies in the Democratic Party. I have no idea how you fix that kind of stupid, but I hope the Democrats figure out a way to offer a message to these people that gets through or the red states will ride this country right into the ditch again just like the last Republican administration.

Edit: I removed the video because it autoplays. It is available at the link.

198
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:19:52am
199
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:20:40am

re: #197 ObserverArt

I was just doing some more reading about Carrier. Maybe this is a sign. You know how they say never read the comments. Well, I haven’t read them all, but so far this is an article where you can read the comments.

Here is the article, a link, some video and just one of the comments.

CBS News - Carrier workers facing layoffs feel betrayed by Trump

[Embedded content]

Comment:

That video does the auto-play thing, even in the Master Spy.

200
No Depression  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:22:18am

Maybe we don’t want unity with people that are trying to kill us. If we aren’t gonna get unity in opposing objectively terrible public policy, division is the next best thing.

201
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:22:36am
202
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:25:13am
203
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:25:40am

All I know is this. We tried playing nice for years. Maybe some hardball is necessary.

204
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:27:22am

re: #202 Birth Control Works

[Embedded content]

The wrong man is facing jail time. That thug needs to go to prison and never be a cop again.

205
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:30:12am

re: #35 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

P2oewBHzypZFU5Aj6mB1La/JyCYs19JTqc+iVzowr0sYyeRv1yPvDsKRFkKR3uEoXjOnjCIDaPjHVqEWdvQFXuDt4jcutruD

206
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:30:32am

re: #203 HappyWarrior

All I know is this. We tried playing nice for years. Maybe some hardball is necessary.

No maybe

207
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:30:46am

re: #199 wrenchwench

That video does the auto-play thing, even in the Master Spy.

and it is quite irritating.

208
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:31:25am

And now, also thanks to Trump, those people that were laid off from Carrier won’t be able to get health insurance either.

#MAGA

209
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:32:21am

I’m so freaking tired of human beings.

210
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:32:36am

re: #208 Eclectic Cyborg

And now, also thanks to Trump, those people that were laid off from Carrier won’t be able to get health insurance either.

#MAGA

pfft!

211
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:32:43am

re: #197 ObserverArt

Really fucked up thing? The plant is in Indiana and they will vote for him again anyway.

212
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:33:19am

re: #199 wrenchwench

That video does the auto-play thing, even in the Master Spy.

I took the video out. It is available at the story link.

213
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:33:37am

re: #211 Ace Rothstein

Really fucked up thing? The plant is in Indiana and they will vote for him again anyway.

Because gays, illegals, and Muslims.

214
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:33:38am

re: #211 Ace Rothstein

Really fucked up thing? The plant is in Indiana and they will vote for him again anyway.

home of the KKK.

Where I was born and went to High School.

I try not to go back. It’s difficult with I-65 going right down the center.

215
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:33:51am

re: #212 ObserverArt

I took the video out. It is available at the story link.

thank you

216
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:33:58am

re: #213 HappyWarrior

Because gays, illegals, and Muslims.

And abortion. And War on Christmas.

217
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:34:39am

re: #216 Ace Rothstein

And abortion. And War on Christmas.

Yes. And this is what economics first types like Sanders don’t get.

218
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:35:35am
219
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:35:50am
220
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:36:32am

re: #219 Birth Control Works

[Embedded content]

Thanks Chief Justice Doughface!

221
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:37:05am

something beautiful, file under: the Kids are Alright

[OFFICIAL VIDEO] Hallelujah - Pentatonix

222
Ace Rothstein  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:37:24am

From the comments.

The Carrier workers are now having buyers remorse, I can’t wait to see how Dump spins this and blames Obama for the unkept promise he made.

You know it’s coming. Obama will get the blame.

223
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:38:01am

re: #222 Ace Rothstein

From the comments.

You know it’s coming. Obama will get the blame.

And a lot of the workers will fall for it. Because black guy who doesn’t look like them.

224
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:39:04am

re: #217 HappyWarrior

Yes. And this is what economics first types like Sanders don’t get.

This drives me out of my mind. Reproductive Rights are economically sound. Basic actually.

Capitalism is supposed to love competition —yet capitalists do nothing but try to eliminate competition —not with better products but by other means.

225
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:39:30am

re: #212 ObserverArt

I took the video out. It is available at the story link.

The off button worked. I was just surprised because I’ve never seen it happen in the Spy before. But thanks.

226
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:40:14am

When I think about it, I think the reason why incremental socialism may have succeeded more in Europe than it did here is because they’re not as diverse. The bosses couldn’t use racial resentment as easily say in London, Paris, or Berlin the way they did in our cities. It’s not just racial resentment but anyone who looks different. A priest, when I researched my Irish family in Cleveland was telling me that the bosses in Cleveland recruited Eastern European labor for cheap in the late 1800’s and that pitted the two groups against each other.

227
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:41:55am

re: #224 Birth Control Works

This drives me out of my mind. Reproductive Rights are economically sound. Basic actually.

Capitalism is supposed to love competition —yet capitalists do nothing but try to eliminate competition —not with better products but by other means.

Yes but I’m actually talking about how social issues can be used to distract on economics. Damn right though, reproductive rights are economic too. And yeah a lot of capitalists do try to eliminate competition. My wingnut friend would claim that’s crony capitalism but that’s the way capitalism works when it’s unregulated like people him want.

228
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:42:43am

re: #217 HappyWarrior

Yes. And this is what economics first types like Sanders don’t get.

Some of them are Economics Only types, thinking if they fix that, everything else will follow. Wrong.

229
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:42:49am

re: #224 Birth Control Works

This drives me out of my mind. Reproductive Rights are economically sound. Basic actually.

Capitalism is supposed to love competition —yet capitalists do nothing but try to eliminate competition —not with better products but by other means.

I always thought, and still do think, the game Monopoly is more a true indicator of American style capitalism. Someone wins and ends up with all the properties and all the money. Everyone else loses. We seem to be in the beginning of everyone loses stage.

230
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:44:25am

re: #228 wrenchwench

Some of them are Economics Only types, thinking if they fix that, everything else will follow. Wrong.

Which is one of the many mistakes the Soviets made but also in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Though thankfully, tensions between Slovaks and Czechs weren’t as bad as they were between Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians.

231
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:45:37am

re: #226 HappyWarrior

When I think about it, I think the reason why incremental socialism may have succeeded more in Europe than it did here is because they’re not as diverse. The bosses couldn’t use racial resentment as easily say in London, Paris, or Berlin the way they did in our cities. It’s not just racial resentment but anyone who looks different. A priest, when I researched my Irish family in Cleveland was telling me that the bosses in Cleveland recruited Eastern European labor for cheap in the late 1800’s and that pitted the two groups against each other.

Same thing in my home town during the turn of the 20th Century. Mill owners did the exact same thing. what really amazed me was how divisive the 1912 election was. In any towns the fight between Taft and Roosevelt was so acrimonious that churches, clubs and bars/taverns permanently divided and never reconciled.

232
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:45:54am

Too many people approach economics with an almost religious like zeal when we should be looking at economics as being about people. Okay, sure maybe you think your vision of capitalism or socialism “makes logical sense” but the thing is, the world is a complicated place. There are no socialists, there are no capitalists, there is only people.

233
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:47:37am

re: #231 Joe Bacon 🌹

Same thing in my home town during the turn of the 20th Century. Mill owners did the exact same thing. what really amazed me was how divisive the 1912 election was. In any towns the fight between Taft and Roosevelt was so acrimonious that churches, clubs and bars/taverns permanently divided and never reconciled.

I find it sad and I guess that’s why I resist the whole white pride thing not merely because I abhor racism but white pride once meant pride in being a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, a group with the exception of my father’s grandfather I am not part of. I’m an American mutt and I’m damn proud of it.

234
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:47:58am

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Too many people approach economics with an almost religious like zeal when we should be looking at economics as being about people. Okay, sure maybe you think your vision of capitalism or socialism “makes logical sense” but the thing is, the world is a complicated place. There are no socialists, there are no capitalists, there is only people.

Marxists are just as addicted to their doctrines as Christians are. That’s why both of them fracture into multiple denominations!

235
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:48:15am

re: #227 HappyWarrior

Yes but I’m actually talking about how social issues can be used to distract on economics. Damn right though, reproductive rights are economic too. And yeah a lot of capitalists do try to eliminate competition. My wingnut friend would claim that’s crony capitalism but that’s the way capitalism works when it’s unregulated like people him want.

WE ARE NOT GOING BACK
236
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:49:45am

re: #234 Joe Bacon 🌹

Marxists are just as addicted to their doctrines as Christians are. That’s why both of them fracture into multiple denominations!

Marxists but also die hard Capitalists. My wingnut friend talks about Capitalism the same way the old time Marxists did about Marxism. There’s no basis in reality to it. Just platitudes and bullshit. My brother and I were talking and we both concluded that society works in between socialism and capitalism. He’s definitely to my left but he’s not a dogmatic lefty either.

237
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:50:13am
238
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:50:43am

re: #235 Birth Control Works

[Embedded content]

This was the world that my Dad’s grandparents came of age into. We had to fight to prohibit child labor.

239
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:52:32am

re: #230 HappyWarrior

Which is one of the many mistakes the Soviets made but also in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Though thankfully, tensions between Slovaks and Czechs weren’t as bad as they were between Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians.

Maybe not as bad but bad.

I still remember my father, who was first generation American, used to get on me if he ever heard me say our family lineage was Czechoslovakian because I knew at that time (early 60s) that we came from the country on the map identified as Czechoslovakia.

He would remind me that we were Slovaks and the part of the world we were from used to be called Slovakia and Slovaks had nothing to do with Czechs. So, apparently there was considerable dislike between the two groups.

My father passed away many years before the USSR broke up. He would have loved to look at a map and see there was a Slovakia.

240
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:53:25am

I’m now listening to The Pursuit of Power Europe 1815-1914.

It begins with the emancipation of the serfs and the ensuing systemic changes it caused.

Leaders from Czars to Monarchs repeatedly stepped in to help the poor and curb rampant abuses by the rising middle class. Until the whackos got in power and created work houses (Oliver Twist).

The division of labor and it’s results between the Local Lord and the Serf is something I found quite interesting.

241
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:57:23am

re: #238 HappyWarrior

This was the world that my Dad’s grandparents came of age into. We had to fight to prohibit child labor.

Since plagues, illness and wars aren’t decimating the population, we have overpopulation.

It was similar in the early 1800’s (according to the book) —day laborers were the norm. What else do you do with too many people? —drive down wages, demand more work, in less time. Keep them working 14 hours a day in conditions that created health problems. Lose a worker, no problem there are many many more that will take the job.

Robber Barons love these conditions.

242
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:57:54am

re: #239 ObserverArt

Maybe not as bad but bad.

I still remember my father, who was first generation American, used to get on me if he ever heard me say our family lineage was Czechoslovakian because I knew at that time (early 60s) that we came from the country on the map identified as Czechoslovakia.

He would remind me that we were Slovaks and the part of the world we were from used to be called Slovakia and Slovaks had nothing to do with Czechs. So, apparently there was considerable dislike between the two groups.

My father passed away many years before the USSR broke up. He would have loved to look at a map and see there was a Slovakia.

Oh yeah, it was definitely bad. That’s how the Nazis got a lot of Slovaks to collaborate unfortunately. I definitely think my grandmother’s father would have felt the same as your father. We’re kind of in the middle though since while we resided in Slovakia, we weren’t ethnic Slovaks but Rusyns and not RCC like the majority of Slovaks are.

243
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:58:24am

re: #241 Birth Control Works

Since plagues, illness and wars aren’t decimating the population, we have overpopulation.

It was similar in the early 1800’s (according to the book) —day laborers were the norm. What else do you do with too many people? —drive down wages, demand more work, in less time. Keep them working 14 hours a day in conditions that created health problems. Lose a worker, no problem there are many many more that will take the job.

Robber Barons love these conditions.

And a lot of people idiotically consider that the time we were most “free” as a people.

244
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 9:59:13am

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Too many people approach economics with an almost religious like zeal when we should be looking at economics as being about people. Okay, sure maybe you think your vision of capitalism or socialism “makes logical sense” but the thing is, the world is a complicated place. There are no socialists, there are no capitalists, there is only people.

I’m so tired of labels.

245
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:00:14am

re: #239 ObserverArt

Maybe not as bad but bad.

I still remember my father, who was first generation American, used to get on me if he ever heard me say our family lineage was Czechoslovakian because I knew at that time (early 60s) that we came from the country on the map identified as Czechoslovakia.

He would remind me that we were Slovaks and the part of the world we were from used to be called Slovakia and Slovaks had nothing to do with Czechs. So, apparently there was considerable dislike between the two groups.

My father passed away many years before the USSR broke up. He would have loved to look at a map and see there was a Slovakia.

Rather true, actually; Czechs think of Slovaks as hapless bumpkins, rural rubes, superstitious peasants; Slovaks think of Czechs as effete snobs, pretentious, haughty and possessing dubious morals.

246
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:00:26am

The Potato Famine is another tragedy of ideology combined with religious zeal on both economics and religion causing people to suffer. A lot of British protestants blamed the Irish’s Catholicism for their suffering and others more or less saw helping the starving people as going against Capitalism. So yeah, I’m not rah rah Capitalism knowing that. I’m not rah rah Socialism either for that matter. I’m for systems that analyse the real world and try to help people. And if that means we go into some debt, I don’t mind. Debt is far from the worst thing that can befall a nation.

247
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:00:40am

re: #229 ObserverArt

I always thought, and still do think, the game Monopoly is more a true indicator of American style capitalism. Someone wins and ends up with all the properties and all the money. Everyone else loses. We seem to be in the beginning of everyone loses stage.

Zero-Sum Game mindset.

While Capitalists say over and over, the pie is endless. “We can literally create wealth”. And, it is true, yet they are the ones that act like there is only so much pie and they want it all

248
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:01:24am

re: #228 wrenchwench

Some of them are Economics Only types, thinking if they fix that, everything else will follow. Wrong.

Kushner saying that government serves customers (paraphrasing).

NO ASSHOLE, GOVERNMENT SERVES THE PEOPLE.

249
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:01:46am

re: #245 Dr Lizardo

Rather true, actually; Czechs think of Slovaks as hapless bumpkins, rural rubes, superstitious peasants; Slovaks think of Czechs as effete snobs, pretentious, haughty and possessing dubious morals.

My Grandma still refers to the Czechs as the “richer people” when distinguishing the two groups.it’s a good thing the Velvet divorce happened. It was necessary for both countries. I’m really looking forward to visiting next summer.

250
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:02:44am
251
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:02:48am

re: #245 Dr Lizardo

Rather true, actually; Czechs think of Slovaks as hapless bumpkins, rural rubes, superstitious peasants; Slovaks think of Czechs as effete snobs, pretentious, haughty and possessing dubious morals.

Still ongoing then. Tribes. It never seems to go away.

252
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:04:50am

re: #243 HappyWarrior

And a lot of people idiotically consider that the time we were most “free” as a people.

YEAH, THE people who ate everyday.

253
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:06:08am

re: #246 HappyWarrior

The Potato Famine is another tragedy of ideology combined with religious zeal on both economics and religion causing people to suffer. A lot of British protestants blamed the Irish’s Catholicism for their suffering and others more or less saw helping the starving people as going against Capitalism. So yeah, I’m not rah rah Capitalism knowing that. I’m not rah rah Socialism either for that matter. I’m for systems that analyse the real world and try to help people. And if that means we go into some debt, I don’t mind. Debt is far from the worst thing that can befall a nation.

All nations go into and stay in debt.

In all my reading, I’ve yet to find a country that wasn’t in debt. Spain went bankrupt something like 6 times in the 1700’s (iirc).

Without debt there is no growth.

254
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:06:18am

re: #252 Birth Control Works

YEAH, THE people who ate everyday.

Yep, the very wealthy lived quite well. Everyone else though.

255
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:06:52am

re: #251 ObserverArt

Still ongoing then. Tribes. It never seems to go away.

Treaty of Versailles didn’t take that into account —we’ve been screwed ever since.

256
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:07:09am

re: #253 Birth Control Works

All nations go into and stay in debt.

In all my reading, I’ve yet to find a country that wasn’t in debt. Spain went bankrupt something like 6 times in the 1700’s (iirc).

Without debt there is no growth.

The fallacy that many conservatives have created is this idea that you want to run your country like you would your personal checkbook. Sounds compelling on the surface but like a lot of “common-sense” proposals, it’s a lot of bs.

257
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:07:42am

re: #249 HappyWarrior

re: #251 ObserverArt

Oh, but that tribalism ain’t done yet: Quite a few of my students are genuine, bona-fide Moravian nationalists. They want to see Moravia split away (the Czech Republic is composed of two territories - Bohemia and Moravia, for those who may be unaware) and form its own nation. No kidding. They loathe the Bohemians.

258
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:08:18am

re: #257 Dr Lizardo

Oh, but that tribalism ain’t done yet: Quite a few of my students are genuine, bona-fide Moravian nationalists. They want to see Moravia split away (the Czech Republic is composed of two territories - Bohemia and Moravia, for those who may be unaware) and form its own nation. No kidding. They loathe the Bohemians.

All church going Christians I assume …

259
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:08:43am

re: #257 Dr Lizardo

Oh, but that tribalism ain’t done yet: Quite a few of my students are genuine, bona-fide Moravian nationalists. They want to see Moravia split away (the Czech Republic is composed of two territories - Bohemia and Moravia, for those who may be unaware) and form its own nation. No kidding. They loathe the Bohemians.

Splitters!

260
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:11:17am

re: #257 Dr Lizardo

Oh, but that tribalism ain’t done yet: Quite a few of my students are genuine, bona-fide Moravian nationalists. They want to see Moravia split away (the Czech Republic is composed of two territories - Bohemia and Moravia, for those who may be unaware) and form its own nation. No kidding. They loathe the Bohemians.

Nationalism is a crazy thing. I saw Basque graffiti in Pamplona I remember.

261
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:11:21am

re: #258 Birth Control Works

All church going Christians I assume …

Actually, no; they’re just as atheistic as the rest of the overall population. They just want a Republic of Moravia, with its own parliament, prime minister and president. It’s purely political. They propose Brno as the capital of the Republic of Moravia.

262
Belafon  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:11:41am

re: #192 Joe Bacon 🌹

They invented death panels. Don’t get offended when we tell the truth.

263
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:13:18am

re: #261 Dr Lizardo

Actually, no; they’re just as atheistic as the rest of the overall population. They just want a Republic of Moravia, with its own parliament, prime minister and president. It’s purely political. They propose Brno as the capital of the Republic of Moravia.

at least they aren’t using religion to justify their actions.

264
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:14:18am

re: #263 Birth Control Works

at least they aren’t using religion to justify their actions.

Yeah; like I said, it’s socio-cultural. They just feel they’re “different” than the Bohemians to the west and thus, they should go their own way.

265
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:16:23am

“This will never end cause I want war”

Fever Ray - If I had a heart (Vikings Soundtrack)

266
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:19:38am

re: #255 Birth Control Works

Treaty of Versailles didn’t take that into account —we’ve been screwed ever since.

Actually I think we humans have been screwed up from the get-go.

I still see the concept of “the original sin” as being human. Humans are sinners right from birth. To get “free” from that human built in issue, you need to get over being all things that are bad about humans. Those bad things are covered in the other concept of ‘the seven deadly sins” and to get past the original sin you need to get past the seven deadly sins.

Pretty hard test. A big portion of humans do not even give it a try. High failure rates.

Note: I use classic bible and religious stories and dogma as early man stories about the human condition and their attempts to help humans get past the built in issues so they could get along. It appears it is a job that can never be totally accomplished.

267
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:24:47am

re: #266 ObserverArt

Note: I use classic bible and religious stories and dogma as early man stories about the human condition and their attempts to help humans get past the built in issues so they could get along. It appears it is a job that can never be totally accomplished.

So much of it is lost in translation, IIRC.

Sin — is not some awful misdeed. It’s preached about and used so out of context, IIRC.

It simply means we are not perfect (complete/God). We are not gods and it is wrong to act as such. WE are born flawed —we have virtues and vices. Our life’s work is to recognize each and work towards balance.

Yet as children we learn about original sin and think, “I am bad”, which just plays to the vices. “Why not drink, drug, steal, use other people, make war —I’m bad. It’s what I am.”

“I have to make others small to feel I am adequate because my religion/culture etc didn’t know how to translate biblical teachings into language fitted to my time in history.”

just my .02

268
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:25:19am

re: #266 ObserverArt

Actually I think we humans have been screwed up from the get-go.

I still see the concept of “the original sin” as being human. Humans are sinners right from birth. To get “free” from that human built in issue, you need to get over being all things that are bad about humans. Those bad things are covered in the other concept of ‘the seven deadly sins” and to get past the original sin you need to get past the seven deadly sins.

Humans are imperfect, part of our task as humans is to strive to get better, individually and collectively. That is an aspect of most religions I can deal with…yeah but not that we are inherently doomed unless we do whatever is stated in said Scriptures…

269
Dr Lizardo  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:25:33am

re: #266 ObserverArt

Actually I think we humans have been screwed up from the get-go.

I still see the concept of “the original sin” as being human. Humans are sinners right from birth. To get “free” from that human built in issue, you need to get over being all things that are bad about humans. Those bad things are covered in the other concept of ‘the seven deadly sins” and to get past the original sin you need to get past the seven deadly sins.

Pretty hard test. A big portion of humans do not even give it a try. High failure rates.

Note: I use classic bible and religious stories and dogma as early man stories about the human condition and their attempts to help humans get past the built in issues so they could get along. It appears it is a job that can never be totally accomplished.

I’ve always reckoned this guy most likely figured it out:

270
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:26:23am

re: #269 Dr Lizardo

I’ve always reckoned this guy most likely figured it out:

[Embedded content]

sitting in Deer Park (not the city in Ohio).

Yeah, I tend to go with him too!

271
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:28:48am

272
Birth Control Works  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:29:06am

off to photoshop

273
Teukka  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:29:47am

re: #265 Birth Control Works

“This will never end cause I want war”

[Embedded content]

Song related?

Nordman “I lågornas sken”

Lyrics

1:
She fell on the witnesses of two boys in the village.
Said to have partied at the Devil’s fest.
She’s only 17 years old and along the path/way they go
She’s pushed forward like a animal during jeers
She tries to reach the look of her lover.
But she sees him turn and walk away.
And among them who watch
Is the punishment she gets
A light on the proof they don’t understand

Chorus:
Does she play with wizardry and magic?
Can she awake the fury of the sky?
Woah, from the light of the flames
Can she walk on water like they’ve said?
Can she trick death with her might/power?
Woah, in the light of the flames

2:
When the flames arise she pray for
Freedom from this nightmare.
The one she trusted, lowered his gaze
And she saw how he turned and left.
She’s alone and doomed.
Despite pledge for mercy
Her doom was to be cleaned in fire

Chorus:
Does she play with wizardry and magic?
Can she awake the fury of the sky?
Woah, from the light of the flames
Can she walk on water like they’ve said?
Can she trick death with her might/power?
Woah, in the light of the flames

Bridge:
But then finally
The whole village quiet.
All cries die out
Goes away with the smoke.
The smoke rising against the sky.

Chorus:
Has she played with wizardry and magic?
Has she now laid down her life
Woah, in the light of the flames.
Has she played with wizardry and magic?
Has she awoken the fury of the sky?
Woah, in the light of the flames.
Has she walked on water like they’ve said?
Has she tricked death with her might?
Woah, in the light of the flames.

274
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:33:31am

re: #267 Birth Control Works

So much of it is lost in translation, IIRC.

Sin — is not some awful misdeed. It’s preached about and used so out of context, IIRC.

It simply means we are not perfect (complete/God). We are not gods and it is wrong to act as such. WE are born flawed —we have virtues and vices. Our life’s work is to recognize each and work towards balance.

Yet as children we learn about original sin and think, “I am bad”, which just plays to the vices. “Why not drink, drug, steal, use other people, make war —I’m bad. It’s what I am.”

“I have to make others small to feel I am adequate because my religion/culture etc didn’t know how to translate biblical teachings into language fitted to my time in history.”

just my .02

Pretty much what I am saying. I just don’t get hung up on the word sin and take it in it religious context. I see it as a behavioral word.

All of what else you mention is the failure and people not trying.

Religion comes along and adds “the untouchable god” that is going to fry your ass for eternity if you don’t act right. Some humans decided you can’t get people to think things through and how good behavior is rewarding for all. So they had to figure out a way to scare the shit out of everyone to get them in line.

And “we” have the brains.

275
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:34:08am
276
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:37:11am

re: #275 jaunte

In Portland, ME a 60-year old with middle income will pay $9,290 more (⬆️ 208%). Premiums will be 31% of income.

He says that as though it were a bad thing.

277
Stanley Sea  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:38:44am

re: #275 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Fucked.

278
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:39:00am

re: #275 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Thanks for voting for us now fuck off.//

279
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:39:17am

I wonder where the GOP thinks people will find decent paying jobs to cover the increase in cost?

280
wrenchwench  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:40:38am

The nice weather brings them out. First flat tire came in with its owner, who I don’t remember, and a guy who I see around all the time so I do remember him, and they’d be back for it… then another and another, then a woman came in with three flats off the stroller that she doesn’t need until her due date in November, then the first couple came back, and went out again because it wasn’t done, then, while I’m running my compressor, so I didn’t hear when the guy came in to talk about mountain bike tires because, you know, traction. Then a guy came in from Connecticut, only because he goes in all the bike shops because his retirement job is in the bike shop of his local REI (he used to be an industrial arts teacher) and he has 7 bikes, including ones he made himself (brazing is easy! [if you were an industrial arts teacher]) and the first couple came and left again. Now that bike is done. I only have five flats left to do, plus three that have been here a while, Does this post need an OT private tag? I’ll check back. Good thing I restocked tubes this week.

281
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:40:40am

re: #279 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder where the GOP thinks people will find decent paying jobs to cover the increase in cost?

By 60 yrs of age, most people have fulfilled the bulk of their obligation to the GDP.

282
Barefoot Grin  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:40:54am

re: #275 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Wait, they’re going to put a mandate on top of that?

283
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:41:02am

re: #279 Eclectic Cyborg

The GOP plan is:
1. Let the poors die.
2. Fewer poors!

284
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:42:49am

My message to the GOP senators right now:

285
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:43:00am

re: #282 Barefoot Grin

That’s probably what the insurance lobbyists asked for.

286
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:43:25am

re: #283 jaunte

The GOP plan is:
1. Let the poors die.
2. Fewer poors!

You only need enough poors to maintain a bidding war.

287
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:45:35am

re: #279 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder where the GOP thinks people will find decent paying jobs to cover the increase in cost?

I wonder how long before the insurance companies find out they are losing business.

As Lawkawk keeps reminding. this plan fucks everyone. I don’t think the media is really looking into this as they are hung up on that 23 million number using Medicaid. If the media gets to doing its damn job and starts pointing out how it touches all aspects of the health insurance industry maybe the Republicans would take some major heat.

288
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:46:36am

Interactive map at the link lets you see what will happen in your county:

289
ObserverArt  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:49:22am

re: #281 Decatur Deb

By 60 yrs of age, most people have fulfilled the bulk of their obligation to the GDP.

Yep. Too many forget the Republicans are looking at spread sheets. Not The Bible or all that other mumbo-jumbo about humanistic ideals and doing the right thing.

290
Romantic Heretic  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:55:45am

re: #232 HappyWarrior

I get people angry at me by pointing out that economics is just a tool. Mostly a perceptual tool that shapes the way people look at the world. Tools have no ethical qualities and can only do what their operators tell them to do.

When we raise economics to the status of ethics we are asking for trouble.

291
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 24, 2017 • 10:57:29am

re: #290 Romantic Heretic

I get people angry at me by pointing out that economics is just a tool. Mostly a perceptual tool that shapes the way people look at the world. Tools have no ethical qualities and can only do what their operators tell them to do.

When we raise economics to the status of ethics we are asking for trouble.

The Free Market has become an ideology, some sort of divine state, unto itself.

292
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:00:42am
293
Amory Blaine  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:01:24am

re: #275 jaunte

The message I get: if you are young and have skill, get out of the US as soon as possible. If you are young and have middling to low skills. Work as little as possible, don’t save money. They will only rip it away from you when you’re old.

294
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:03:28am

re: #292 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Completely unacceptable.

295
goddamnedfrank  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:06:49am

re: #275 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The plan has always been to fuck these people over with a reconciliation bill that repeals the NIIT and pays for it with reduced benefits. The next step will be to turn around and blame Democrats for not cooperating to avert the ensuing disaster with followup legislation that replaces the subsidies by gutting other social and science programs.

296
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:16:07am

re: #294 HappyWarrior

Completely unacceptable.

Yes, but with a GOP controlled congress and a GOP controlled Supreme Court this shit isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

We might be at the beginning of a very long stretch of Republican Presidencies.

297
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:24:46am

re: #296 Eclectic Cyborg

Yes, but with a GOP controlled congress and a GOP controlled Supreme Court this shit isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

We might be at the beginning of a very long stretch of Republican Presidencies.

I dunno. 2018/20 though are extremely important though.

298
Belafon  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:29:49am

re: #284 Eclectic Cyborg

My message to the GOP senators right now:

[Embedded content]

Won’t work, the earth is flat. //

299
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:31:05am

More ‘concern’ about tone.

300
mmmirele  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:31:43am

Something is DEFINITELY up. I posted this last night, from my congresscritter’s Facebook:

Yeah, it’s gonna happen.

Less than 30 minutes ago, Rep. Andy “I won $10 million in the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes” Biggs posted a video to his Facebook:

Who told Andy Biggs to do this???
301
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:32:05am
302
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:32:23am

re: #299 jaunte

[Embedded content]

More ‘concern’ about tone.

What does that even mean? I’m really getting tired of the bitching about the national Dems from people who have no clue not only how to win but to govern.

303
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:33:23am
304
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:33:40am

Both the jobs I now have do not provide health ins..

The jobs I apply for one of the first things is in the notice of the job which includes info on health ins. and they mostly say limited and subject to 90 day probation on the job.

What bothers me is the fact the insurance companies went along with the affordable health care act due to the mandate and they thinking it would force people to buy .

In my case it caused me to loose the one good paying part time job that did provide some help on health ins. , they contracted out to an Indian company the IT work we did.

Our generation is getting it from both the R’s and current D’s.
I want sane government back.

305
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:34:14am

re: #302 HappyWarrior

Grieder wanted Ted Cruz as president.
texasmonthly.com

306
Romantic Heretic  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:35:31am

re: #251 ObserverArt

Still ongoing then. Tribes. It never seems to go away.

Easier than thinking.

307
Ming5000  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:35:33am

Margarita

Saturday on the deck. Enjoying a nice Michigan day. 1st Margarita is about done.

308
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:35:34am

re: #305 jaunte

Grieder wanted Ted Cruz as president.
texasmonthly.com

That says it all right there.

309
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:35:38am

re: #305 jaunte

Ted Cruz is for Ted Cruz end of story.

310
jaunte  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:35:39am

And before Cruz, Rick Perry.
texasmonthly.com

So… tone policing Democrats.

311
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:37:02am

re: #304 BigBadDemocrat

Both the jobs I now have do not provide health ins..

The jobs I apply for one of the first things is in the notice of the job which includes info on health ins. and they mostly say limited and subject to 90 day probation on the job.

What bothers me is the fact the insurance companies went along with the affordable health care act due to the mandate and they thinking it would force people to buy .

In my case it caused me to loose the one good paying part time job that did provide some help on health ins. , they contracted out to an Indian company the IT work we did.

Our generation is getting it from both the R’s and current D’s.
I want sane government back.

Because of ACA, I can’t be denied coverage because of the heart condition I was born with. Enough of this both sides crap. One side is trying to get more people insured, the other only cares about their wealthy donors.

312
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:39:02am

re: #311 HappyWarrior

But doesn’t this R , redo include pre-existing conditions?

313
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:39:46am

Festivus keeps arriving earlier every year…

314
Romantic Heretic  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:40:16am

re: #253 Birth Control Works

All nations go into and stay in debt.

In all my reading, I’ve yet to find a country that wasn’t in debt. Spain went bankrupt something like 6 times in the 1700’s (iirc).

Without debt there is no growth.

I’ve heard it said that Western civilization started with the reneging of debt.

Nations that go bankrupt free up the wealth that went to paying interest to go into other areas. It doesn’t get rid of the bad economics that caused them to go bankrupt but it allows them a fresh start.

315
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:40:29am

re: #312 BigBadDemocrat

But doesn’t this R , redo include pre-existing conditions?

theatlantic.com

316
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:41:28am

re: #311 HappyWarrior

I understand the big money deal, thing is an example is the Georgia house race just done and the big money went to the Democrat guy too. That is what makes me crazy.

317
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:43:52am

re: #316 BigBadDemocrat

I understand the big money deal, thing is an example is the Georgia house race just done and the big money went to the Democrat guy too. That is what makes me crazy.

You mean the Citizens United decision that nearly every Republican praised? I don’t like that Ossoff had to rely on wealthy donors necessarily either but that’s the post Citizens United world, a world where you need to spend tons of money to be competitive electorally. Don’t blame Ossoff and the Democrats for going along with the fact that the Roberts Court pretty much created wealthy sugar daddies like the Kochs, Adelson, Freiss, and others to fund candidates at will.

318
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:45:27am

re: #315 HappyWarrior

That sounds like input from the ones I find most to blame the Insurance companies and their lobbyist.

Once more both sides taking money from lobbyist.

319
Charles Johnson  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:46:33am

320
HappyWarrior  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:47:18am

re: #319 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I’m finished.

321
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:48:39am

re: #317 HappyWarrior

The Amazon guy and the twitter guy and others on the D side much the same thing.
We out here working and paying taxes are not able to buy the votes in the Senate and House. D C has gone for the gold standard total in my opinion

322
Decatur Deb  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:53:34am

Lightning flash from our afternoon storm was so close I got a mild shock. It was probably from a current induced on the mouse cable. Didn’t do a thing to the computer or monitor.

323
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 11:56:12am

re: #322 Decatur Deb

I live in Rowlett Texas near the Dart Train station, we had lots of bad lighting last night around 1 am and lots of homes and our apartment building were lights out until 11:30 today.

324
BigBadDemocrat  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:00:51pm

I will go away for now as it seems I am not being understood. The thing is we have only one Washington D.C. and the two exchanging bosses there can not get along enough and we out here get crap done for us.

325
William Lewis  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:05:05pm

re: #324 BigBadDemocrat

Oh you’re understood perfectly, Comrade​ Troll.

326
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jun 24, 2017 • 12:07:12pm

re: #324 BigBadDemocrat

Bye Bye Putintroll!


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