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1
piratedan  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:01:03pm

i just still have trouble dealing with the fact that we’ve had an adversarial relationship with Russia (even through Glasnost, it’s not like it was really warm and fuzzy) for at least a 100 years, and now, because of Trump, all of that is suddenly “old news” and for apparently no other reason than Trump is apparently in Putin’s pocket (knowingly or unknowingly).

2
Teukka  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:02:02pm

re: #1 piratedan

i just still have trouble dealing with the fact that we’ve had an adversarial relationship with Russia (even through Glasnost, it’s not like it was really warm and fuzzy) for at least a 100 years, and now, because of Trump, all of that is suddenly “old news” and for apparently no other reason than Trump is apparently in Putin’s pocket (knowingly or unknowingly).

I have a feeling that it is way more people than just tRump and his admin.

3
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:05:49pm

re: #2 Teukka

I do too.

4
piratedan  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:08:20pm

re: #2 Teukka

agreed and I’m equal parts fascinated and mortified to find out just how pervasive it is…

suspects:

McConnell
Ryan
Priebus
Conway
Bannon
Kushner
Stone
Manafort
Guiliani (and his FBI buddies)
Rohrbacher
Scalise
Hatch
Nunes
certain elements/editors of the NYT
Faux News
Infowars
Breitbart
certain elements of CNN (i.e. how in the hell do you explain Lewandoski AND Lord et al)

and numerous others…including

Sessions
Pence
Page

How I could have forgotten them? It’s bad when the number of possible treasonous bastards is rivals the size of a roster for a MLB team!

5
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:12:01pm

re: #4 piratedan

Yup, fascinated and mortified! Good list. I’d maybe add the Mercers (not in the pocket per se, but ideologically bound).

6
retired cynic  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:15:45pm

re: #4 piratedan

NEVER let Giuliani and Gingrich out of your sight.

7
GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:20:49pm

re: #1 piratedan

That’s how good of a deal maker Trump is. Just like how Reagan scared the Iranians into releasing the hostages, Trump made Russia bow down to us.

Do I need a ///?

8
jaunte  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:21:18pm

re: #1 piratedan

i just still have trouble dealing with the fact that we’ve had an adversarial relationship with Russia (even through Glasnost, it’s not like it was really warm and fuzzy) for at least a 100 years, and now, because of Trump, all of that is suddenly “old news” and for apparently no other reason than Trump is apparently in Putin’s pocket (knowingly or unknowingly).

It’s confusing if you have a memory that goes back as far as 2015.

Republicans Criticize Obama for Talking to Putin

“…The perception that Obama has rolled out the red carpet for Putin is a key part of Republican candidates’ complaints about current U.S. foreign policy, as Jeb Bush noted on Twitter: “Obama allows Russia & Iran more influence in Syria & Iraq. Not good for US, Israel, or our moderate Muslim partners “
….
“…Senator John McCain put out a statement declaring Obama’s meeting with Putin “misguided” and “unnecessary,” adding that the meeting would “legitimize” Russian actions in Syria.”
newsweek.com

9
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:22:29pm

We forgot Beauregard. He did his time with Kislyak and should have to resign and face charges for being a lying ass liar at the highest level.

10
piratedan  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:23:19pm

re: #8 jaunte

and those same gentleman, who complained that Obama was even at the same table as Putin… where the fuck are they now?

11
piratedan  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:23:48pm

re: #9 JordanRules

good catch, Sessions and Pence should both be there

edited the above post, ty!

12
HappyWarrior  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:25:36pm

re: #11 piratedan

good catch, Sessions and Pence should both be there

A lot of the non elected religious right too.

13
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:31:08pm

I sometimes like to imagine the endless white boards Team Mueller might need to map this whole Kremlin3.0 thing out.

14
freetoken  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:42:27pm

re: #13 JordanRules

Remember, Mueller has broader power than just anything limited to Russia. He can and should investigate anything that led to the act of obstructing justice through the firing of the FBI director.

15
freetoken  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:48:40pm

Thinking of working on my first Page in a long time, a review of Richard Carrier’s opus magnus, and how it might be applicable to the bigger picture (not just strictly the problems of the historicity of the Jesus of Christian dogma.)

16
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:49:01pm

re: #14 freetoken

Great point! Mapping this out is quite a task that I am confident they are up to. I do think though, it’s easy to get to saaayyy 3 or 4 degrees of separation back to something Kremlinish. Comey firing obstruction etc springs from the poisoned well. I’m definitely of the belief that there are elements of a long con here.

17
freetoken  Jul 18, 2017 • 9:50:33pm

re: #16 JordanRules

The financial ties between the Trump crime family and various oligarchs/autarchs around the world are probably extensive. Even disregarding the hacking of the Clinton emails, there’s probably plenty of stuff hiding that could convict many.

18
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:01:47pm

re: #17 freetoken

The financial ties between the Trump crime family and various oligarchs/autarchs around the world are probably extensive. Even disregarding the hacking of the Clinton emails, there’s probably plenty of stuff hiding that could convict many.

And the political ties between Russian oligarchs that DT does business with and the Russian government are well known. So why have we failed to connect the dots?

19
retired cynic  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:03:07pm

re: #18 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

And the political ties between Russian oligarchs that DT does business with and the Russian government are well known. So why have we failed to connect the dots?

I don’t even have a list of the cast of characters!

20
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:09:43pm

re: #18 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Who would do this 3000 white board level work? NY State was doing it’s damned best. They fired one of the main dudes. A Team Mueller like entity might be the only answer.

Lots of dots connected on smaller white boards over the years. Some cases succeeded and pissed the Kremlin outfit off (the adoption law, resulting sanctions and such). Some failed for various reasons and some were literally just dropped with a wink and a nod by a likely corrupt DOJ.

21
retired cynic  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:10:36pm

re: #20 JordanRules

Who would do this 3000 white board level work? NY State was doing it’s damned best. They fired one of the main dudes. A Team Mueller like entity might be the only answer.

Lots of dots connected on smaller white boards over the years. Some cases succeeded and pissed the Kremlin outfit off (the adoption law, resulting sanctions and such). Some failed for various reasons and some were literally just dropped with a wink and a nod by a likely corrupt DOJ.

I would love to be a fly on the wall.

22
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:12:49pm

re: #21 retired cynic

Whew! To get just a peek would prolly blow my mind even more.

23
allegro  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:14:42pm

re: #18 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

And the political ties between Russian oligarchs that DT does business with and the Russian government are well known. So why have we failed to connect the dots?

Why are you assuming failure? It’s entirely possible that whole bunches of dots have been well connected and that those dots lead to bunches of new dots. We’re seeing that play out daily in the trickles leaking out (deliberately I bet).

24
teleskiguy  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:23:04pm

Good read.

Because this is a story about Ann Coulter, it’s necessary to point out that the flight attendant and the passenger photographed are both women of color. Why is that necessary? Because Coulter has made race a major theme of her work, most recently in books like Adios, America! and In Trump We Trust. Her dread that white western civilization has its back against the wall is always on her mind. In fact, during this Delta epic rant, Coulter—jonesing for a dose of uncut racial vitriol—actually stopped her Delta tirade to retweet one @JBurtonXP’s comment about the acid attacks in London. The comment: “Letting Muslims into your country is what led to a rise in acid attacks. Removing Muslims from your country is how to stop the acid attacks.” She also huffed that “Immigrants take American jobs (& seats on @Delta).” Always be closing, when you’re out to Make America Great Again!

25
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:23:11pm

re: #20 JordanRules

Who would do this 3000 white board level work? NY State was doing it’s damned best. They fired one of the main dudes. A Team Mueller like entity might be the only answer.

Lots of dots connected on smaller white boards over the years. Some cases succeeded and pissed the Kremlin outfit off (the adoption law, resulting sanctions and such). Some failed for various reasons and some were literally just dropped with a wink and a nod by a likely corrupt DOJ.

It was a rhetorical question: those who tried to connect the dots were blocked from doing so and those who could had no interest…

26
freetoken  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:40:13pm

Started my review of Carrier… it’s going to be quite wordy. That’s what worries me, and why I do so few Pages.

A proper review has to be lengthy because most people won’t understand the issues without some backstory.

Backstory takes times.

27
MsJ  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:44:49pm
28
retired cynic  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:45:05pm

re: #26 freetoken

Started my review of Carrier… it’s going to be quite wordy. That’s what worries me, and why I do so few Pages.

A proper review has to be lengthy because most people won’t understand the issues without some backstory.

Backstory takes times.

Isn’t that why people gritch at Rachel Maddow? /

29
freetoken  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:51:28pm

re: #28 retired cynic

Perhaps.

But I see the real problem of our society today to be one of unresolved tensions arising out of changes - change in language, change in religion, change in skin color of the majority, change in what is expected in childhood and adulthood, etc.

Bill Nye’s fire-throwing of teaching creationism being akin to child abuse is not far, I think, from the truth.

Trump has marks because so many Americans are trained to be gullible. This is done greatly in church pews, through religious music and television, and the like.

The very uncomfortable truth is that the Christian cult has outlived its usefulness. Whatever value it had after the fall of the Roman empire (not Christianity’s fault - it was the Roman imperial problems of warfare, taxation, etc.) in keeping local communities together and centralizing some authority, in the year 2017 the literal version of Christianity is now obsolete (as are all literal religions.)

30
teleskiguy  Jul 18, 2017 • 10:58:36pm
31
LastYearsMan  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:09:03pm

All religion is pretty much magic. Without magic, it’s just culture. I don’t understand how anyone can believe in magic in 2017. Not a grownup, anyhow.

(The cultural and heritage part of some religions, i can understand. But not the magic).

32
retired cynic  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:10:35pm

re: #31 LastYearsMan

All religion is pretty much magic. Without magic, it’s just culture. I don’t understand how anyone can believe in magic in 2017. Not a grownup, anyhow.

(The cultural and heritage part of some religions, i can understand. But not the magic).

That sums it up for me. Simple. Thanks!

33
goddamnedfrank  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:15:04pm
34
sagehen  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:15:08pm

re: #27 MsJ

[Embedded content]

That was excellent.

35
The Ghost of a Flea  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:15:18pm

re: #31 LastYearsMan

All religion is pretty much magic. Without magic, it’s just culture. I don’t understand how anyone can believe in magic in 2017. Not a grownup, anyhow.

(The cultural and heritage part of some religions, i can understand. But not the magic).

Magical thinking is just a kind of pattern recognition error; the existing cultural structures of “magic” from the past just inform people that there exist invisible cause-effect sets corresponding to their particular practices.

But magical thinking is not limited to old cultural structures. Spurious cause-effect and gnosticism are what define all kinds of modern quackery—diet, medicine, free energy, sex—and also conspiracy theories—with aliens and sinister forces standing in for divine agents as the hidden actor.

36
Targetpractice  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:15:38pm

Again, having a hard time believing that the news that Hillary had had a second, off-the-books hour-long conversation with a foreign leader would have been treated as “no big deal.”

37
goddamnedfrank  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:19:11pm
38
Targetpractice  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:22:38pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

So even if you believe the cops were just “recreating” the find, what this video proves is that cops know how to manipulate the bodycams.

39
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:23:35pm

re: #25 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Word!
I so wish this evil crew would’ve been thwarted by earlier efforts too.

40
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:29:26pm

Teeheehee. She’s a national treasure.

41
teleskiguy  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:32:02pm

re: #40 JordanRules

Teeheehee. She’s a national treasure.

About Stephen Bannon:

42
JordanRules  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:32:32pm

re: #27 MsJ

Good read!

43
goddamnedfrank  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:35:54pm

The Navy is probably going to end up putting a pair of these on every surface vessel except hospital ships and (possibly) tenders. I predict there’ll be a move away from carriers and manned aircraft towards distributed fleets of smaller corvettes armed with lasers for point defense and railguns for mass computer guided multiple launch simultaneous impact bombardment. Basically we’re going to have the function of battleships again in the form of a much harder to engage swarm of smaller stealthier ships.

44
Cheechako  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:41:50pm

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

I wonder how it would work in a severe storm with heavy rain and extreme ship motions.

45
goddamnedfrank  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:42:23pm

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

P.S. That headline is wrong, it’s not the world first laser weapon. The Boeing YAL-1 Airborne laser, the Advanced Tactical Laser and the Israeli Iron Beam all preceded it to live fire field testing.

46
piratedan  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:42:58pm

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

looks eerily similar in design to the weapon in an old Jonny Quest episode Mystery of the Lizard Men…

47
goddamnedfrank  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:43:56pm

re: #44 Cheechako

I wonder how it would work in a severe storm with heavy rain and extreme ship motions.

Rain and sea spray will severely attenuate the beam for sure. The pitch and roll of the ship can be pretty easily neutralized with modern computer controls though.

48
teleskiguy  Jul 18, 2017 • 11:58:39pm

95 years old. Can Twitter.

Bless Carl Reiner! May he live a long long LONG time.

49
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:00:55am

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

The Navy is probably going to end up putting a pair of these on every surface vessel except hospital ships and (possibly) tenders. I predict there’ll be a move away from carriers and manned aircraft towards distributed fleets of smaller corvettes armed with lasers for point defense and railguns for mass computer guided multiple launch simultaneous impact bombardment. Basically we’re going to have the function of battleships again in the form of a much harder to engage swarm of smaller stealthier ships.

[Embedded content]

Manned aircraft may end up being rendered obsolete, but carriers will remain because they offer too much flexibility to the modern navy to go away. But I can see the DDG(X) and FFG(X) programs leading to future ships of the line that will carry the equivalent of the firepower of an Iowa-class battleship.

50
teleskiguy  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:01:43am

Seriously, Carl Reiner on Twitter is something else. He tried to get his younger friend Mel Brooks into it and Mel never took. Carl, though, he knows how to Twitter.

He’s 95.

51
goddamnedfrank  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:12:20am

re: #49 Targetpractice

Manned aircraft may end up being rendered obsolete, but carriers will remain because they offer too much flexibility to the modern navy to go away. But I can see the DDG(X) and FFG(X) programs leading to future ships of the line that will carry the equivalent of the firepower of an Iowa-class battleship.

Carriers will be around for two more decades but I honesty have my doubts about them lasting much longer. They’re enormous, massively expensive targets that produce more in the way of psychological effect than efficient power on the modern battlefield. The thing that really gives me pause is that a Swedish diesel electric sub scored a kill on a US carrier during war game exercises, and that was twelve years ago.

More modern versions of the Swedish sub in question use a combination of paraffin and liquid oxygen fuel to extend its submerged operating time to 30 days. The oxygen and paraffin are burned together to drive a Stirling engine that recharges the batteries silently, exhaust is dissolved into the seawater and discharged without noise. It’s deathly quiet and like the article says the Gotlund just terrorized its US op force opponents through several years worth of exercises. You can bet the Chinese military took notice of that and have improved their own subs accordingly.

52
Kragar  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:17:11am

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

I expect amphibious assault ships like the Wasp and future models to end up taking more prominent roles in US fleet operations in the future, over the full carriers we have today

53
goddamnedfrank  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:32:16am

re: #52 Kragar

I expect amphibious assault ships like the Wasp and future models to end up taking more prominent roles in US fleet operations in the future, over the full carriers we have today

Agree. The biggest weakness I see in the modern nuclear super-carrier is that it is such an iconic symbol of American war power that taking one down is basically an asymmetrical opponent’s wet dream. Just losing one in a shooting war would be a 9/11 scale disaster. That’s partly why we dedicate so many extra assets to their protection, assets that would otherwise be able to more efficiently project force on their own if they weren’t relegated to the role of bodyguard.

54
Scout  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:47:06am

I don’t claim to know much about weapons of any sort. But when people talk about “laser weapons” I always think about something a British friend once told me. He had a friend who served in the Royal Navy during the first Gulf War, who said his ship had the ability to shine (if that’s the right word) a laser into the eyes of approaching enemy pilots.

I don’t know if that constitutes a “weapon” or not.

55
goddamnedfrank  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:54:15am

re: #54 Scout

I don’t claim to know much about weapons of any sort. But when people talk about “laser weapons” I always think about something a British friend once told me. He had a friend who served in the Royal Navy during the first Gulf War, who said his ship had the ability to shine (if that’s the right word) a laser into the eyes of approaching enemy pilots.

I don’t know if that constitutes a “weapon” or not.

The story was likely bullshit since what your British friend describes would be a blatant violation of Protocol IV of the 1980 Geneva Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. They may have had some kind of low power target designating & range finding laser on board for the ship’s auto-cannon, but blinding pilots wasn’t a designed or approved use.

56
Scout  Jul 19, 2017 • 12:59:16am

re: #55 goddamnedfrank

The story was likely bullshit since what your British friend describes would be a blatant violation of Protocol IV of the 1980 Geneva Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. They may have had some kind of low power target designating & range finding laser on board for the ship’s auto-cannon, but blinding pilots wasn’t a designed or approved use.

That very well may be. On the other hand, it wouldn’t have been the first time military people violated international laws and protocols.

57
Scout  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:01:03am

re: #56 Scout

Forgot to add:

I had no idea that would have violated any protocols. I guess I always just think of killing as killing, and how it’s done doesn’t make much difference. I realize of course the world is a lot more complicated than that, however.

58
goddamnedfrank  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:05:08am

re: #56 Scout

That very well may be. On the other hand, it wouldn’t have been the first time military people violated international laws and protocols.

The Royal Navy doesn’t just flout Geneva Accords like that. Also by the time a modern fighter bomber is within visual range of a target surface vessel it’s too late because an anti-ship missile has already been fired. For instance the Iraqi pilot who fired on the USS Stark in 1987 unloaded his first Exocet missile 22.5 nautical miles out, the second at 15.5 nm.

59
Single-handed sailor  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:11:34am

re: #53 goddamnedfrank

You know with AEGIS radar guiding SM-3, SM-6, and other missiles, F-35s with AI, AI controlled combat-drone swarms, laser weapons, and total battlefield integration I’m not too worried about our military. On the other hand I’m terrified by our fucking commander and chief.

60
Kragar  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:15:04am
61
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:16:12am

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Carriers will be around for two more decades but I honesty have my doubts about them lasting much longer. They’re enormous, massively expensive targets that produce more in the way of psychological effect than efficient power on the modern battlefield. The thing that really gives me pause is that a Swedish diesel electric sub scored a kill on a US carrier during war game exercises, and that was twelve years ago.

The Swedish sub in question uses a combination of paraffin and liquid oxygen fuel to extend its submerged operating time to 30 days. The oxygen and paraffin are burned together to drive a Sterling engine that recharges the batteries silently, exhaust is dissolved into the seawater and discharged without noise. It’s deathly quiet and like the article says it just terrorized its US op force opponents through several years worth of exercise. You can bet the Chinese military took notice of that and have improved their own subs accordingly.

Except it’s not truly silent, anything with moving parts generates noise in a liquid medium. The key challenge is developing sensors sharp enough to differentiate that noise from the background. Plus a Sterling engine-powered AIP limits the sub to operating at a depth of 200m, is reliant upon LOX which is volatile, and the “30 days” assumes that you scoot around at 2-4kt. If ASW drives that sub skipper deep, then he has shut off the AIP, which reduces his endurance from days to hours. At that point, it’s a matter of waiting out your prey, because eventually he’ll have to come up to recharge his batteries and then his ass is grass.

Don’t think I’m downplaying the danger of AIP-equipped SSKs, they are very dangerous and should be respected as tough nuts to crack. But at the same time they’re not the unstoppable killing machines that some would assume. They’re niche predators, great at the shallow-water hunting they’re designed for but in blue-water scenarios would be far easier prey.

62
Kragar  Jul 19, 2017 • 1:19:11am

Oops, double post

63
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jul 19, 2017 • 3:13:25am

Completely off topic. I recall there are Destiny posters here (mumble, mumble names)and the Beta went live (on PS4) yesterday. The openenig play through was very well done. Looks like Bungie done good. I am excited for the September when it finally comes out. Gameplay is different, but not that much. All in all it feels very real as D1 did. The feel of the guns is excellent.

64
Targetpractice  Jul 19, 2017 • 3:47:17am

re: #63 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Completely off topic. I recall there are Destiny posters here (mumble, mumble names)and the Beta went live (on PS4) yesterday. The openenig play through was very well done. Looks like Bungie done good. I am excited for the September when it finally comes out. Gameplay is different, but not that much. All in all it feels very real as D1 did. The feel of the guns is excellent.

The XBox beta goes live at 1pm EST, so I’ve got a bit of time still left to wait. But everything I’ve seen so far tells me that it’s a sequel in the correct sense: It keeps what works, improves on it, and fixes items that had issues.

65
Hecuba's daughter  Jul 19, 2017 • 4:33:36am

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Carriers will be around for two more decades but I honesty have my doubts about them lasting much longer. They’re enormous, massively expensive targets that produce more in the way of psychological effect than efficient power on the modern battlefield. The thing that really gives me pause is that a Swedish diesel electric sub scored a kill on a US carrier during war game exercises, and that was twelve years ago.

Many years ago I learned an ancient submariner saying: There are only two forms of vessels: submarines and targets.

66
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:04:41am

re: #26 freetoken

Then break up the piece into a couple of pages and serialize them. You can then link back and forth.

Background page for those who need to be brought up to speed, then additional pages for each of the various issues you seek to address.

That way, it breaks down in to more manageable chunks.

67
jeffreyw  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:05:11am

Imgur


Good morning!

68
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:13:47am

re: #63 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Completely off topic. I recall there are Destiny posters here (mumble, mumble names)and the Beta went live (on PS4) yesterday. The openenig play through was very well done. Looks like Bungie done good. I am excited for the September when it finally comes out. Gameplay is different, but not that much. All in all it feels very real as D1 did. The feel of the guns is excellent.

Had you not put PS4 in there, I would have not had the first clue what you were talking about (I missed the PS4 part at first glance which made me go…huh?)

69
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:15:34am

re: #66 lawhawk

At least, that’s how I’d do it from the Resistance in the NYC metro area on this fine summer morning.

Of course, today is another day where Trump and the craven GOP are trying to disrupt and sabotage health coverage for millions of Americans and most of the Senate GOP seems to be fine with it. I’m not sure there’s a kabuki theater bit going on - putting on a show about how they want to repeal Obamacare but in reality they don’t because they know it works (why else would they put on such a craptastic version time and time again) mostly because the GOP has signaled their intention and demand to destroy health coverage for millions of Americans and any straight repeal would affect far more than those on the ACA marketplace plans or Medicaid expansion - to include those with preexisting conditions and affect transparency of health costs and minimum requirements for insurance plan coverage, etc.

Trump doesn’t care about any policy considerations, let alone the politics of the situation. He cares only about how he can have parties and ceremonies to sign stuff. He doesn’t know what he’s signing, let alone the content of the legislation - health care in particular, but applicable to every piece of legislation that would come before him.

There’s no inquisitiveness here. He doesn’t care, and doesn’t want to know. That’s all beyond him and his advisers. His advisers are simply telling him what he wants to hear, and he’s in a media bubble where he gets his news from agitprop sites and regurgitates them daily. We see that through his tweets and statements. It’s the hallmark of a regressive know-nothing who can’t and wont understand the world around him. He further cements his approach by filling his cabinet with like minded loyalists/sycophants.

That compounds the problems, and is further evidence of the GOP intent to sabotage functioning government. It’s all they’ve done over the past 8 years, and it’s all they know how to do. We can thank the know-nothing Tea Party, but we can also thank low turnout in midterm elections, media manipulation by Russia, media magical balance fairy-ing the everlasting shit out of issues that don’t have two sides, and more. There’s no one single magic bullet to resolve this either.

That means that the fix is going to require multiple efforts occurring simultaneously.

It means fighting voter suppression and working on turnout in midterms.
It means fighting Trump and his cabal of cronies at every turn on legislation/policy.
It means pursing all criminal avenues against Trump and his cronies.
It means pushing back on the media mendacity of Faux News.
It means staying engaged - as with the health care debacle the GOP intends to foist on us.

70
b.d. (bill d.)  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:20:11am

re: #48 teleskiguy

95 years old. Can Twitter.

[Embedded content]

Bless Carl Reiner! May he live a long long LONG time.

He has.

//

71
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:20:33am

re: #65 Hecuba’s daughter

Many years ago I learned an ancient submariner saying: There are only two forms of vessels: submarines and targets.

The big revelation I learned early on is that in regards to naval vessels, one doesn’t have to destroy them, only prevent them from doing their mission, in order to succeed in a confrontation.

Being dead in the water nullifies a vessel for almost any planned purpose.

72
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:20:53am

Well, this tweet of mine has legs. I don’t think I have had a tweet that had this kind of reaction before (but still pales in comparison to the original tweet). I woke up to 205 notifications this morning.

BTW, if you haven’t read that initial tweet thread, do so. It was very interesting.

73
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:25:52am

Mikey finally makes the list

74
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:32:42am

re: #73 Dr. Matt

Mikey finally makes the list

[Embedded content]

Jack POSobiec is whining that ADL is putting out a “hit list” and that they are a “terror organization”

75
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:39:26am
76
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:44:33am

re: #75 MsJ

Tillerson is considering closing the State Dept.’s entire cyber office, limiting people who work on cybersecurity.

They can outsource it to Russia and save a lot of money…

77
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:47:22am

re: #75 MsJ

The State Department is being intentionally dismantled. It’s scandalous and perilous. Time to freak out - the “nationalists” are winning.
— Brian Schatz

And here I thought the “nationalists” were going to strengthen the country, not weaken it.

78
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:47:38am
79
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:50:31am

Fucking republicans continuing to break government.

80
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 5:58:36am

re: #73 Dr. Matt

Theodore Beale aka Vox Day is a champion of the alt right movement who claims to have popularized the term “cuckservative.

His family must be so proud.

/

81
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:10:30am

re: #8 jaunte

Republicans Criticize Obama for Talking to Putin

“…The perception that Obama has rolled out the red carpet for Putin is a key part of Republican candidates’ complaints about current U.S. foreign policy, as Jeb Bush noted on Twitter: “Obama allows Russia & Iran more influence in Syria & Iraq. Not good for US, Israel, or our moderate Muslim partners “

Well that changed seemingly overnight.

But not really. Putin has something of a cult following amongst many conservatives.

82
Myron Falwell  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:10:40am

re: #73 Dr. Matt

I understand why the ADL separated the two groups, but JFC, enough with “alt right.”

What they label as “alt right” are Nazis… and the “alt lite” are Nutzis.

83
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:12:55am

re: #81 Sir John Barron

Well that changed seemingly overnight.

But not really. Putin has something of a cult following amongst many conservatives.

He rides barebacked, bare-chested and kills bears with his bare hands.

He runs an autocratic, oligarchic, homophobic theocratic government that skims the best of his country’s resources for the benefit of the few and leaves the rest to fight over the scraps.

Which is just what the GOP would like to implement in America, only difference being that the theocracy would be fundamentalist Protestant-flavored instead of Russian Orthodox.

84
No Depression  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:18:26am

re: #79 MsJ

Fucking republicans continuing to break government.

[Embedded content]

Looks like Paul Ryan is a traitor too.

85
retired cynic  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:18:26am

re: #83 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

He rides barebacked …

He rides ponies bareback. Too short to get up on anything else.

86
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:20:19am

NYT:

The Senate bill, which faced a near-impossible path forward after the House passed its version of the legislation in May, was ultimately defeated by deep divisions within the party, a lack of a viable health care alternative and a president who, one staff member said, was growing bored in selling the bill and often undermined the best-laid plans of his aides with a quip or a tweet.

I don’t remember dRumpF doing much to “sell the bill”, other than tweet a time or two about it.

I tweeted about it. What else am I supposed to do? I hate this f*cking job.

87
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:22:06am
88
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:22:14am

re: #86 Sir John Barron

The Senate measure would impose annual caps on Medicaid spending, ending what has been an open-ended entitlement for the poor and disabled. The process bypassed committees, any public airing of the bill or formal bill drafting. Instead, Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, farmed out the remaking of 17 percent of the economy to a small group of senators, all Republican white men. The bad first look did not fade.

They couldn’t even be bothered to draft the thing.

The best, most open and transparent processes.

/

89
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:22:38am
90
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:22:54am

re: #87 lawhawk

GOP: Hold our beer…

91
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:23:07am
92
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:23:11am

Yeah, there’s a whole lot of stupid in that Mensch tweet.

93
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:23:36am
94
b.d. (bill d.)  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:23:59am

Trump has probably had more private meetings with Putin than with Schumer and he certainly talks worse about the Dems than he does about the Russians.

America first my ass., f*ck this traitor. Lock ‘em up.

95
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:25:03am

re: #87 lawhawk

The new Senate strategy of #RepealAndDelay will be scored w/ 10 million more in coverage losses than other bills -
— Marc Goldwein

Why are they still going through with this? Haven’t at least four GOP Senators signaled their opposition to a repeal-only bill?

I know, I’m trying to make sense of the insensible.

96
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:25:05am

re: #92 darthstar

Yeah, there’s a whole lot of stupid in that Mensch tweet.

Squirrel and nut.

She’s a twofer.

97
b.d. (bill d.)  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:26:48am

re: #95 Sir John Barron

Why are they still going through with this? Haven’t at least four GOP Senators signaled their opposition to a repeal-only bill?

I know, I’m trying to make sense of the insensible.

Because if they haven’t come up with a replacement plan in the last 7 years then they’ll be sure to come up with one in the next two?

98
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:26:54am
99
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:28:17am

re: #96 lawhawk

Squirrel and nut.

She’s a twofer.

My twitter feed has become a lot more sane since I put her on mute…but screenshots still get through.

100
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:28:21am

re: #93 lawhawk

The Republicans never discuss how good their healthcare bill is, & it will get even better at lunchtime.The Dems scream death as OCare dies!

— Donald J. Trump

What is this gibberish?

Can’t wait for the final days of this presidency already.

101
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:28:54am
102
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:33:43am

re: #88 Sir John Barron

Making matters worse for the White House, the bill had virtually no support from health care, insurance, patient advocate and disease groups, and was harshly judged by the Congressional Budget Office. Grass-roots opposition to the bill — aided by Democrats like Senator Chuck Schumer of New York — swayed members of Congress in a way rarely seen on Capitol Hill.

At the annual meeting of the American Hospital Association in May, Mr. Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, urged hospital executives to mobilize their employees in an effort to defeat the bill, which had been approved by the House just a few days earlier.

“You have every right to express your outrage on behalf of the people who you take care of and your employees,” Mr. Schumer told hospital leaders. “Everyone needs to speak up and let their elected officials know how bad this bill is.”

103
Unshaken Defiance  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:35:24am
104
Barefoot Grin  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:36:15am

I just did my morning coffee and TV time. CNN talking about Don Jr’s meeting—Mike Rogers says it wasn’t illegal but they should know that the Russians likely sent people to size up Trump and his crew. I say bullshit. It’s now clear that these people have known each other in one form or another for a long time. And “Big” Don’s informal hour-long gab with Putin? Who knows. But one thing is clear, he didn’t gab much with anyone else because he is completely uncomfortable with leaders of Western democracies.

105
Barefoot Grin  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:36:55am

re: #102 Sir John Barron

Yeah but they’re going to make it better at lunch today. ///

106
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:37:19am

re: #102 Sir John Barron

Late Monday, Mr. McConnell responded by vowing to pass a measure to repeal the Affordable Care Act now, then work on a replacement over the next two years. But on Tuesday, three Republican senators — Ms. Collins, Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — told Mr. McConnell they would not support his last-ditch effort.

Pesky womens.

/

107
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:37:55am

re: #104 Barefoot Grin

again: we were long aware of DT’s business dealings with Russia and the extent to which his partners were connected with the government.

That did not seem to bother enough voters and those who could have investigated the matter more closely seemed strangely uninterested in finding out…

108
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:41:35am

re: #105 Barefoot Grin

Still, the White House is not giving up. Late on Tuesday, Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, announced that Mr. Trump was inviting all Republican senators to the White House on Wednesday — to talk about health care.

Steve Bannon said I needed to keep trying on this thing. Fvck. All this stupid crap is holding up my beautiful rallies. People love me. I won the popular vote everywhere. Media hates me, sabotaged bill. Damn Dems and that Schumer. Isn’t talking to the Hospital group illegal?

109
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:41:42am

re: #106 Sir John Barron

Pesky womens.

/

You add the sarcasm, but someone showed a tweet where the person said that electing women was bad for Republicans.

110
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:42:25am

re: #109 Belafon

Yeah, adding the sarc slash was a tough call on this one.

111
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:42:30am

re: #100 Sir John Barron

Can’t wait for the final days of this presidency already.

Neither can Junior, poor little rich boy.

Fuck these people, and fuck People magazine for this bullshit story. I’m not going to waste a second feeling bad for that punk and his cut-throat family culture.

112
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:43:17am

re: #102 Sir John Barron

(I normally stay away from this, but) I thought Bernie stopped attempts to repeal Obamacare.

113
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:44:23am

re: #94 b.d.

“We’re gonna have a beautiful lunch, the best. We’ll figure something out eventually. But even if not, it will be impressive by any standards. I won’t own it anyway.”

114
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:45:05am

Shudda thought of that earlier, son.

115
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:46:03am

re: #104 Barefoot Grin

Spot. Fucking. On.

116
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:49:11am

re: #114 MsJ

Donald Trump Jr. “miserable,” can’t wait for his dad’s presidency to end: report
— The Hill

“And I’m so nice, too, like on Twitter. And transparent. Dad says I’m the most transparent. Why do these Dems and media hate us so much. It’s because we’re successful. “

117
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:49:58am

re: #93 lawhawk

[Embedded content] The Republicans never discuss how good their healthcare bill is….

because most people aren’t enthusiastic about the idea of dying sooner than they have to. - whether it fuels a tax cut for the rich or not

118
b.d. (bill d.)  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:50:10am

re: #113 Sir John Barron

“We’re gonna have a beautiful lunch, the best. We’ll figure something out eventually. But even if not, it will be impressive by any standards. I won’t own it anyway.”

What if we just kick the blacks and Mexicans off of Obamacare and keep it going for everybody else? That’s something we can all agree on.

119
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:50:16am

re: #114 MsJ

Shudda thought of that earlier, son.

[Embedded content]

Donald Trump, Jr is an agent of Soros! //

120
b.d. (bill d.)  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:50:56am

re: #114 MsJ

Shudda thought of that earlier, son.

[Embedded content]

Ivanka better start working on a designer line of ankle bracelets.

121
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:51:29am

I know I posted this above but really, read this. It’s like a roadmap. You see not only the Koch’s, who are mentioned, but ALEC (not mentioned but still one of those highly secretive groups who finally had a light shined on it).

Her discoveries in that house of horrors reveal how Buchanan, in collaboration with business tycoons and the institutes they founded, developed a hidden programme for suppressing democracy on behalf of the very rich. The programme is now reshaping politics, and not just in the US.
Buchanan was strongly influenced by both the neoliberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises, and the property supremacism of John C Calhoun, who argued in the first half of the 19th century that freedom consists of the absolute right to use your property (including your slaves) however you may wish; any institution that impinges on this right is an agent of oppression, exploiting men of property on behalf of the undeserving masses.

James Buchanan brought these influences together to create what he called public choice theory. He argued that a society could not be considered free unless every citizen has the right to veto its decisions. What he meant by this was that no one should be taxed against their will. But the rich were being exploited by people who use their votes to demand money that others have earned, through involuntary taxes to support public spending and welfare. Allowing workers to form trade unions and imposing graduated income taxes were forms of “differential or discriminatory legislation” against the owners of capital.

Any clash between “freedom” (allowing the rich to do as they wish) and democracy should be resolved in favour of freedom. In his book The Limits of Liberty, he noted that “despotism may be the only organisational alternative to the political structure that we observe.” Despotism in defence of freedom.

122
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:51:33am

re: #111 makeitstop

Neither can Junior, poor little rich boy.

Fuck these people, and fuck People magazine for this bullshit story. I’m not going to waste a second feeling bad for that punk and his cut-throat family culture.

Yeah I don’t feel bad either. They thought that this was going to be easy after they dismissed Bush, Obama, and Clinton. Welcome to the real world, guys.

123
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:52:44am

re: #116 Sir John Barron

“And I’m so nice, too, like on Twitter. And transparent. Dad says I’m the most transparent. Why do these Dems and media hate us so much. It’s because we’re successful. “

I now see what the problem with the entire Trump empire is, why he’s filed bankruptcy so many times. They have no idea what “successful” means.

124
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:53:11am

re: #114 MsJ

Nobody in [the Trump] family is going to end up enjoying this interlude in their lives.

But they will be well positioned to cash in on it: unlike Nixon, who went off into obscurity, they are going to continue to maintain that they were hounded out of office by a Soros-funded, Obama-led deep-state liberal witch hunt and the colluding fake news media…

125
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:53:54am

re: #92 darthstar

Yeah, there’s a whole lot of stupid in that Mensch tweet.

Ya think?

I don’t think there has been any Mensch Tweets mentioned here lately. Her dosage must have worn off and she is imagining things again.

126
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:55:45am

re: #122 HappyWarrior

Yeah I don’t feel bad either. They thought that this was going to be easy after they dismissed Bush, Obama, and Clinton. Welcome to the real world, guys.

Governing is hard. Being president is exponentially more difficult. There’s no safety net to catch you when you fail. When you as president fail, the nation fails.

Trump should never have been anywhere near the WH, even on the goddamned tour. He’s incapable of governing, let alone leading the entire nation. That’s not what he’s about. That’s not what the GOP is about, and the past 6 months have made this abundantly clear to all but the sycophantic supporters who are immune to facts and logic.

You will never be able to reach and deprogram these Faux-newsbots. But you can contain them. Limit the damage.

Trump will fail, and the only question is how much can we as a nation limit the damage done by this craven bunch of cronies.

127
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:56:14am

re: #124 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

But they will be well positioned to cash in on it: unlike Nixon, who went off into obscurity, they are going to continue to maintain that they were hounded out of office by a Soros-funded, Obama-led deep-state liberal witch hunt and the colluding fake news media…

I remain hopeful that this remains to be seen. I don’t think there are enough right wing people in the world (with money) who will continue to support them. Ivanka’s garbage clothes were on the remainder rack at a low end seller who (IIRC, already sells only remaindered items). Her shit was selling for $3.00. Not something an empire does. Trump’s shitty hotels are high-end gauche. Not something for the masses. I don’t know if cashing in is really in their futures.

I continue to hope that it’s not the case.

128
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:57:22am

re: #125 ObserverArt

Ya think?

I don’t think there has been any Mensch Tweets mentioned here lately. Her dosage must have worn off and she is imagining things again.

Whatever it takes to stay relevant. Spout bullshit that people so want to see.

129
goddamnedfrank  Jul 19, 2017 • 6:59:11am
130
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:02:17am

re: #126 lawhawk

Governing is hard. Being president is exponentially more difficult. There’s no safety net to catch you when you fail. When you as president fail, the nation fails.

Trump should never have been anywhere near the WH, even on the goddamned tour. He’s incapable of governing, let alone leading the entire nation. That’s not what he’s about. That’s not what the GOP is about, and the past 6 months have made this abundantly clear to all but the sycophantic supporters who are immune to facts and logic.

You will never be able to reach and deprogram these Faux-newsbots. But you can contain them. Limit the damage.

Trump will fail, and the only question is how much can we as a nation limit the damage done by this craven bunch of cronies.

Exactly. Just frustrating. It’s just another step back and it’s a big step back at that to have these morons in the WH.

131
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:03:07am

Yikes. July 2017 could be the month historians look back to as the moment the GOP lost any credible claim to be a plausible governing party.

Bill kristol yesterday

132
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:03:27am

re: #113 Sir John Barron

“We’re gonna have a beautiful lunch, the best. We’ll figure something out eventually. But even if not, it will be impressive by any standards. I won’t own it anyway.”

Cecile Richards of Planned Parenthood was on MSNBC last night talking about how everyone needs to keep on the GOP moderates to say no to Mitch.

She said good healthcare is a lot more important than having tuna fish sandwiches for lunch.

An obvious dig at Trump and his grand lunches.

133
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:04:58am

re: #114 MsJ

Shudda thought of that earlier, son.

[Embedded content]

Easy. Let’s end his dads presidency. Heck, junior can help just admit the Russian connections and give all the investigators all the evidence they need.

134
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:05:52am

re: #126 lawhawk

Governing is hard. Being president is exponentially more difficult. There’s no safety net to catch you when you fail. When you as president fail, the nation fails.

Trump should never have been anywhere near the WH, even on the goddamned tour. He’s incapable of governing, let alone leading the entire nation. That’s not what he’s about. That’s not what the GOP is about, and the past 6 months have made this abundantly clear to all but the sycophantic supporters who are immune to facts and logic.

You will never be able to reach and deprogram these Faux-newsbots. But you can contain them. Limit the damage.

Trump will fail, and the only question is how much can we as a nation limit the damage done by this craven bunch of cronies.

But you could have a beer with him! (not really, not at all)

He’s a straight talker…he talks like me!

135
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:06:53am

re: #131 dangerman

Yikes. July 2017 could be the month historians look back to as the moment the GOP lost any credible claim to be a plausible governing party.

Bill kristol yesterday

He’s not wrong.

136
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:08:23am

re: #133 ObserverArt

Easy. Let’s end his dads presidency. Heck, junior can help just admit the Russian connections and give all the investigators all the evidence they need.

The only problem with that, which I so wish was easier, is that leaves us with President Ayatollah Pence who actually knows and understands politics.

With this bumbling and fumbling admin, America will suffer. Under Pence, it’s unimaginable what we would become. I think we can recover more from Trump than Pence.

137
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:09:52am

re: #133 ObserverArt

Easy. Let’s end his dads presidency. Heck, junior can help just admit the Russian connections and give all the investigators all the evidence they need.

Obvious winner

138
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:11:49am

re: #136 MsJ

The only problem with that, which I so wish was easier, is that leaves us with President Ayatollah Pence who actually knows and understands politics.

With this bumbling and fumbling admin, America will suffer. Under Pence, it’s unimaginable what we would become. I think we can recover more from Trump than Pence.

Trump has already done almost all the Trump-unique damage he can. Pence would be more systematic, purpose-driven, and “effective”. Think in terms of the USSC justices to be replaced in the coming years. Trump choices would be no worse, possibly easier to prevent..

139
stpaulbear  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:12:44am

re: #121 MsJ

I put the book on my Amazon and B&N wishlists after your first posting.

The Amazon reviews are 61% five star and 31% one star.

140
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:15:51am

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

The Republicans never discuss how good their healthcare bill is, & it will get even better at lunchtime.The Dems scream death as OCare dies!

— Donald J. Trump

Grade: C-

Tweet misses prime media-bashing opportunity. Seems to suggest fellow GOPers are the problem. Phrase “Dems scream death as Ocare dies” is self-contradictory and unintelligible.

141
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:17:52am

re: #127 MsJ

I remain hopeful that this remains to be seen. I don’t think there are enough right wing people in the world (with money) who will continue to support them. Ivanka’s garbage clothes were on the remainder rack at a low end seller who (IIRC, already sells only remaindered items). Her shit was selling for $3.00. Not something an empire does. Trump’s shitty hotels are high-end gauche. Not something for the masses. I don’t know if cashing in is really in their futures.

I continue to hope that it’s not the case.

They will find a profitable niche and continue to be gadflies. They will have enough loyally deluded supporters to guarantee them a comfortable living.

Remember, Trump is not subject to the rules and conventions of politics or business, he is a media entity, and one that reflects the very worst our country has to offer.

142
Teukka  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:18:37am

re: #101 darthstar

[Embedded content]

143
Lupin  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:20:23am

re: #140 Sir John Barron

Grade: C-

Tweet misses prime media-bashing opportunity. Seems to suggest fellow GOPers are the problem. Phrase “Dems scream death as Ocare dies” is self-contradictory and unintelligible.

But it is poetic. Sounds like the title of a Harlan Ellison short story circa 1974.

DEMS SCREAM DEATH AS OCARE DIES

Or a Gene Wolfe circa 1982.

144
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:23:56am

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Trump has already done almost all the Trump-unique damage he can. Pence would be more systematic, purpose-driven, and “effective”. Think in terms of the USSC justices to be replaced in the coming years. Trump choices would be no worse, possibly easier to prevent..

Not even close.

USD as no longer being the reserve currency. Crashed economy. Housing dead. Further job loss, mortgage failures, but moreso than 2008. No bailout, full blown global depression. War. War with long-time allies.

Pence wouldn’t give us wars (likely he wouldn’t at least), but he will work (as he is now) to revoke voting rights of Americans (to ensure GOP control), mandatory prayer (of the right kind…think DeVos on steroids). And worse, like I said, Pence knows politics which means he would know HOW to bully the GOPers who are not falling in line. He knows how to use the bully pulpit…and he has shown that he is more than willing to lie about everything (as Jesus teaches).

The only difference between the two is war. Which I wouldn’t totally rule out but I think Pence would hesitate moreso than Trump.

Either way, we’re in a bad place. But I almost prefer buffoonery, because they are not accomplishing anything lasting (aside from ruining our reputation and changing the dynamics of global power).

Ok, after writing all that I am quite depressed.

145
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:25:15am

re: #143 Lupin

But it is poetic. Sounds like the title of a Harlan Ellison short story circa 1974.

DEMS SCREAM DEATH AS OCARE DIES

Or a Gene Wolfe circa 1982.

Well it still passed heh.

146
stpaulbear  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:25:15am
147
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:29:31am

re: #144 MsJ

Not even close.

USD as no longer being the reserve currency. Crashed economy. Housing dead. Further job loss, mortgage failures, but moreso than 2008. No bailout, full blown global depression. War. War with long-time allies.

Pence wouldn’t give us wars (likely he wouldn’t at least), but he will work (as he is now) to revoke voting rights of Americans (to ensure GOP control), mandatory prayer (of the right kind…think DeVos on steroids). And worse, like I said, Pence knows politics which means he would know HOW to bully the GOPers who are not falling in line. He knows how to use the bully pulpit…and he has shown that he is more than willing to lie about everything (as Jesus teaches).

The only difference between the two is war. Which I wouldn’t totally rule out but I think Pence would hesitate moreso than Trump.

Either way, we’re in a bad place. But I almost prefer buffoonery, because they are not accomplishing anything lasting (aside from ruining our reputation and changing the dynamics of global power).

Ok, after writing all that I am quite depressed.

The path out is to get the worst of the GOP out of control of the House and its Speakership. Either take the house in 2018 (unlikely) or scare the GOP into unloading the worst of its leadership. Then there is something to be gained from impeachment.

None of that happens if the Libs/Progs/Dems/Whatever can’t get their shit together and stop the fratricidal whining.

148
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:31:14am

re: #139 stpaulbear

I put the book on my Amazon and B&N wishlists after your first posting.

The Amazon reviews are 61% five star and 31% one star.

If you read the comments at the Guardian that I found interesting, this was one of them:

DonMidwestUSA 3h ago

Social media war on amazon.com

Someone posted a blog and I looked it up. Right now there are 209 comments on the book. 61% are 5 star and 31% 1 star. The top 5 star review has 2,166 people who like it. There are 42 comments on that review, many a couple of lines that look like trolls.

On my page, amazon also brought up “The Dark Money” book by Jane Mayer. It was also critical of the billionaires including the Koch brothers. It was published in Jan 2016 and has 1,596 reviews. Of those 86% are 5 star and only 4% are 1 star. And there are not the extensive negative comments to the top reviews.

Could it be that the billionaires are getting concern that they are being found out? Could it be that their effort to destroy democracy is being found out?

Is it possible to rescue democracy in the US?

149
Jay C  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:33:13am

re: #131 dangerman

Yikes. July 2017 could be the month historians look back to as the moment the GOP lost any credible claim to be a plausible governing party.

Bill kristol yesterday

In a way: the Republicans’ general inability (on the national level) to actually “govern” - as opposed to merely posture, bluster and obstruct - has been apparent for quite a while. The big difference until now was that we had a competent Executive in the WH (and, as importantly, one who knew how to manage the whole Executive Branch) to mitigate at least some of the damage. However, since the election of “their” President Trump, they’ve lost most of their excuses for their inabilities: so Kristol is at least half right….

150
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:36:09am

re: #147 Decatur Deb

The path out is to get the worst of the GOP out of control of the House and its Speakership. Either take the house in 2018 (unlikely) or scare the GOP into unloading the worst of its leadership. Then there is something to be gained from impeachment.

None of that happens if the Libs/Progs/Dems/Whatever can’t get their shit together and stop the fratricidal whining.

Which is why I want Trump in until 2018 midterms. If we can’t do anything by then, fuck it, America is done. If people won’t vote en masse to correct this, honestly, we get what we get.

I don’t think that’s going to be the case AS LONG AS TRUMP IS THERE. Because the GOP is losing GOPers (see the last special elections, even though we didn’t win every one, the numbers for the GOP were about as ugly as they could be for those we lost).

151
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:37:23am

Good thread here.

152
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:44:57am

This asshole shows he is/was an asshole.

153
stpaulbear  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:45:25am

re: #148 MsJ

One of the three star reviews was complaining that only two of the one five star reviews were verified purchases, so obviously people were reviewing it without reading it. The first thing that reviewer admitted was that they hadn’t read the book. They were obviously rating it three stars to appear ‘fair and balanced’ while trying to trash the positive reviews.

There are now about 48 verified five star reviews.

154
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:45:46am

Call me paranoid, but I have a feeling the GOP may be successful in a full repeal of the ACA under the guise that it will basically force the holdouts and the Dems to come up with new plan. This is playing politics to a whole new level.

155
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:45:52am

re: #151 makeitstop

Good thread here.

[Embedded content]

I see it in my TL. As I said the other night, I really do wonder about Sanders given how quiet he is on the Russian matter. Stein even more. It’s well known Putin attempts to divide the left as well.

156
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:46:38am

re: #152 MsJ

This asshole shows he is/was an asshole.

[Embedded content]

Asshole needs to get a case of Karma. I recommend painful sores on his smug face.

157
nines09  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:47:00am

re: #152 MsJ

This asshole shows he is/was an asshole.

[Embedded content]

Too early….

Back to work..

158
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:47:28am

re: #154 Dr. Matt

Call me paranoid, but I have a feeling the GOP may be successful in a full repeal of the ACA under the guise that it will basically force the holdouts and the Dems to come up with new plan. This is playing politics to a whole new level.

Don’t they need 60 for a full repeal?

159
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:49:38am

re: #151 makeitstop

Good thread here.

[Embedded content]

Yes, and the problem is devilishly difficult to attack—calling out sabotage from the Left looks like sabotage of the Left.

160
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:49:45am

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Don’t they need 60 for a full repeal?

I’ve been wondering the same thing, but I can’t get a straight answer. Turtle and Mango seem to be operating as though they can repeal with a simple majority.

161
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:50:32am

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Don’t they need 60 for a full repeal?

51, if Trump’s recent TweetDiktat is implemented.

162
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:50:49am

re: #160 Dr. Matt

I’ve been wondering the same thing, but I can’t get a straight answer. Turtle and Mango seem to be operating as though they can repeal with a simple majority.

Yeah I’m not either.

163
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:51:03am

re: #121 MsJ

George Mason University. Like the Hoover Institute at Stanford, it seems to always be entwined in the right-wing web of money and influence.

164
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:51:04am

re: #161 Decatur Deb

51, if Trump’s recent TweetDiktat is implemented.

Ah.

165
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:51:54am

re: #163 freetoken

George Mason University. Like the Hoover Institute at Stanford, it seems to always be entwined in the right-wing web of money and influence.

My alma mater. It’s the economics department that is right wing funded.

166
Timothy Watson  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:52:04am

re: #163 freetoken

George Mason University. Like the Hoover Institute at Stanford, it seems to always be entwined in the right-wing web of money and influence.

You don’t want to go to the Antonin Scalia Law School?

167
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:52:53am

re: #166 Timothy Watson

You don’t want to go to the Antonin Scalia Law School?

I got my paralegal certificate before it was ASSLaw okay!

168
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:52:59am

re: #166 Timothy Watson

You don’t want to go to the Antonin Scalia Law School?

That’s for Catholics who won’t go to Regent’s.

169
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:53:29am

I take issue with Monbiot:

Buchanan was strongly influenced by both the neoliberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises, and the property supremacism of John C Calhoun, …

Here Monbiot is just trying to throw shade the Clinton wing of the Democratic party, and parallels elsewhere.

170
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:54:07am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

That’s for Catholics who won’t go to Regent’s.

Nah it’s better than Regent, dipshit name same aside.

171
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:54:24am

re: #161 Decatur Deb

51, if Trump’s recent TweetDiktat is implemented.

????? What did Mango tweet now (he blocked me).

172
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:55:19am

re: #169 freetoken

I take issue with Monbiot:

Here Monbiot is just trying to throw shade the Clinton wing of the Democratic party, and parallels elsewhere.

I thought neo-liberalism in this context was a response to Keynes’ theories.

173
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:55:38am

That’s the same old problem with Monboit - he’s too ideological to properly write history.

174
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:55:52am

re: #171 Dr. Matt

????? What did Mango tweet now (he blocked me).

thehill.com

175
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:57:13am

re: #172 HappyWarrior

In a sense all human developments are reactionary, and certainly that appears so in economics.

176
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:57:31am

re: #160 Dr. Matt

I’ve been wondering the same thing, but I can’t get a straight answer. Turtle and Mango seem to be operating as though they can repeal with a simple majority.

But there are three GOP senators—all women—who have indicated they won’t vote for a repeal only bill. And the Dems are united against.

177
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:57:35am

I majored in history. Knew some Econ majors. Most were libertarians. The only liberal I knew told me how they had to write essays on why the Obama Stimulus was bad, not why or why not. That’s why I don’t exactly feel for conservative students who claim liberal academia is persecuting conservative students.

178
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:58:00am

re: #175 freetoken

In a sense all human developments are reactionary, and certainly that appears so in economics.

Certainly.

179
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:58:30am

re: #154 Dr. Matt

Call me paranoid, but I have a feeling the GOP may be successful in a full repeal of the ACA under the guise that it will basically force the holdouts and the Dems to come up with new plan. This is playing politics to a whole new level.

I highly doubt they will ever give up. Just like they haven’t given up on ridding us of that evil Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc.

Republicans are evil through and through. They didn’t used to be but they are now. This ain’t my grandparent’s GOP (although my entire family were Dems, but you get the point).

180
Interesting Times  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:58:30am

re: #173 freetoken

That’s the same old problem with Monboit - he’s too ideological to properly write history.

How is he wrong, though? He was using the term “neoliberalism” since before it was cool, and in respect of its original meaning as opposed to the modern catchall for “any Dem I think isn’t pure enough”

181
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:59:01am

re: #155 HappyWarrior

I see it in my TL. As I said the other night, I really do wonder about Sanders given how quiet he is on the Russian matter. Stein even more. It’s well known Putin attempts to divide the left as well.

I no longer wonder. I haven’t for months.

182
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 7:59:22am

re: #174 Decatur Deb

thehill.com

We are moments away from straight-up tyranny.

183
GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:00:03am

Anyone know who that is? The human, I mean…

184
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:00:17am

re: #182 Dr. Matt

We are moments one white horse away from straight-up tyranny.

185
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:00:28am

re: #180 Interesting Times

von Mises represents a social movement, not just economic theory. And that social movement is anything but what neoliberalism as an American political movement was about, which was more about compromise.

186
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:00:37am

re: #181 MsJ

I no longer wonder. I haven’t for months.

It is curious honestly and I want his 2020 campaign to crash and burn fast.

187
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:01:00am

re: #176 Sir John Barron

But there are three GOP senators—all women—who have indicated they won’t vote for a repeal only bill. And the Dems are united against.

Right. Unless Trump starts threatening people’s families, I don’t see them even getting to a motion to proceed.

188
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:01:12am

re: #182 Dr. Matt

“The U.S. Senate should switch to 51 votes, immediately, and get Healthcare and TAX CUTS approved, fast and easy. Dems would do it, no doubt!” he tweeted in May.

“Our agenda must be passed no matter what.”

/

189
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:01:44am

re: #185 freetoken

von Mises represents a social movement, not just economic theory. And that social movement is anything but what neoliberalism as an American political movement was about, which was more about compromise.

What I’m curious is how a 20th century Austrian economist’s theories inspired defense of slavery.

190
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:01:55am

re: #186 HappyWarrior

It is curious honestly and I want his 2020 campaign to crash and burn fast.

littlegreenfootballs.com

191
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:02:04am

“Forget the myths the media’s created about the White House. The fact is, these just aren’t very bright guys, and things got out of hand.”

192
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:02:54am

re: #189 HappyWarrior

What I’m curious is how a 20th century Austrian economist’s theories inspired defense of slavery.

Radical defense of property rights.

And slaves are property.

193
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:03:55am

re: #190 Decatur Deb

littlegreenfootballs.com

I know. And that sucks because quite honestly I share a lot of policy goals with Sanders but unlike Sanders, I know I’m not alone and I don’t crap on potential allies.

194
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:04:11am

re: #192 freetoken

Radical defense of property rights.

And slaves are property.

Good point.

195
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:05:01am

re: #188 Sir John Barron

“Our agenda must be passed no matter what.”

/

‘I need a win. Even a half-assed one that nearly everyone hates will do.’

196
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:05:37am

re: #193 HappyWarrior

I know. And that sucks because quite honestly I share a lot of policy goals with Sanders but unlike Sanders, I know I’m not alone and I don’t crap on potential allies.

I’m definitely “Alt-Left, On Loan to the Democratic Party”.

197
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:06:00am

re: #169 freetoken

I take issue with Monbiot:

Here Monbiot is just trying to throw shade the Clinton wing of the Democratic party, and parallels elsewhere.

I disagree. Follow the link in the article. It’s a label that people have given to Hillary but not what the author meant (see link) and doesn’t remotely apply to Clinton. It’s a term that people toss about without knowing what it is (like Communism, Marxism, Socialism, etc.)

198
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:06:36am

re: #196 Decatur Deb

I’m definitely “Alt-Left, On Loan to the Democratic Party”.

You’re a pragmatist. I’m a pragmatist. That’s an important distinction here.

199
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:07:04am
200
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:07:18am

This is an issue that really needs to be addressed.

Throwing around “neoliberalism” is very problematic, because it has been used in American politics in various ways, and in economic theory.

Just because Hayek can be folded into some definition of “neoliberalism” does not do service to how that word has come to be used.

201
freetoken  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:09:33am

re: #197 MsJ

England and American me - two cultures separated by a common language.

202
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:11:06am
203
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:11:45am

re: #198 HappyWarrior

You’re a pragmatist. I’m a pragmatist. That’s an important distinction here.

My utopia is not coming in my lifetime or yours. In the meanwhile there are fascists to fuck.

204
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:12:32am

Important edit to 203.

205
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:13:13am

re: #183 GlutenFreeJesus

[Embedded content]

Anyone know who that is? The human, I mean…

The guy who jumped over the rail thingy the other day. I think he switched from Yes to No and back to Yes on healthcare. I cannot recall his name.

Poor little Bossie Terrier.

206
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:14:30am

re: #188 Sir John Barron

“Our agenda must be passed no matter what.”

/

Nothing sarcastic there. That’s how they feel. No matter what doctors, nurses, voters, healthcare companies, HC CEOs, AARP or anyone else says.

207
Jay C  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:15:16am

re: #202 FormerDirtDart


Jeeez, Lindsay Graham said that? Nice thought, but I’d be more impressed if he’d publicly said something like that during the Senate debate machinations over the BCRA(P): AFAICT, ol’ Lindsay was pretty quiet - i.e. his usual weaseling…

208
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:15:59am

re: #203 Decatur Deb

My utopia is not coming in my lifetime or yours. In the meanwhile there are fascists to fuck.

My belief is we work to make things better for each successive generation.

209
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:16:01am

re: #199 FormerDirtDart

Well, her re-election is sure in doubt. Hannity “Investigations” is threatening to blow everything out in the open. Can’t put anything past that crack outfit.

210
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:16:26am

re: #205 MsJ

The guy who jumped over the rail thingy the other day. I think he switched from Yes to No and back to Yes on healthcare. I cannot recall his name.

Poor little Bossie Terrier.

Moran?

211
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:17:16am

re: #208 HappyWarrior

My belief is we work to make things better for each successive generation.

For all the BS said about it, that actually was the real American Dream.

212
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:18:14am

re: #211 Decatur Deb

For all the BS said about it, that actually was the real American Dream.

Yes. We had that conversation with my mom’s older cousin on Saturday talking about their grandparents.

213
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:18:50am
214
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:19:28am

re: #213 FormerDirtDart

“Hey guys, what’ll we do about Russian hacking?”

215
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:19:45am

re: #208 HappyWarrior

My belief is we work to make things better for each successive generation.

With the periodic setback by reactionary Republicans. All throughout the last century but sent into blink drive in this one.

216
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:20:27am

re: #215 MsJ

With the periodic setback by reactionary Republicans. All throughout the last century but sent into blink drive in this one.

Right.

217
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:20:41am

I’m sure Joe Walsh won’t be posting this

218
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:20:49am

re: #213 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

How Orwellian.

219
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:21:06am

re: #210 HappyWarrior

Moran?

Yeah, pretty sure that’s him. Jerry Moran (R-KS).

220
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:22:02am

re: #199 FormerDirtDart

I was wondering how Fox might respond when the Dump Administration became an acknowledged shitshow.

221
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:24:24am
222
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:24:41am

After being depressed for what I wrote above, when I read the comments (which I almost always do) in the various articles about this lousy admin, all the usual places that support Republicans are really, really turned around. There are far fewer supporters these days.

That gives me hope.

223
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:26:28am

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Don’t they need 60 for a full repeal?

Yes. But paranoia strikes deep.

Here is a recent update from CBS I just found.

CBS - Why is a simple majority usually not enough to pass a bill in the Senate?

Fast-forward to 2017, when Republicans chipped a little more away from the 60-vote requirement when they said that Supreme Court nominees would also only need 51 votes to be confirmed.

So things have been changing, yes. But even if that rule were changed to apply broadly to legislation, it would make no difference in the current situation facing Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. They have already been using a 51-vote rule — in this case, the budget procedure known as “reconciliation” — to try to get their Obamacare repeal bill passed. Under this rule, they’re limited to what they can keep in and what they can leave out. The rule only allows Republicans to touch Obamacare’s budget-related provisions, not its regulations. The bill would repeal all of Obamacare’s subsidies, taxes, and penalties for those who don’t buy insurance, but keeps in place Obamacare’s rules about what insurers must cover.

Even with that rule in place, Republicans have been unable to reach the bare majority they need to pass the legislation. Even within their own party, there are divisions, and with a slim 52-48 majority, McConnell has only been allowed to lose two votes before the measure fails. They need near-unanimity if they want to get something done without Democratic support.

224
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:27:23am

re: #221 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Go for it, dumbasses.

225
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:27:44am

8 years (and a day) ago, President Obama gave a compelling, mature, and thoughtful Weekly Address on “Health Care Reform Cannot Wait”:

Weekly Address: Health Care Reform Cannot Wait

Contrast this amazing Address from President Obama to our present day Assclown in Chief:

226
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:27:47am
227
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:28:21am
228
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:28:26am

What I was saying last night. They are not going to give up.

229
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:30:48am

re: #221 FormerDirtDart

They will stop at nothing to deny people healthcare.

230
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:31:55am

re: #221 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content] Club For Growth and Tea Party Patriots launching new website today: “Traitorous Republicans.” Targets are Murkowski, Portman and Capito.

just a bunch of well intentioned folks tossing around quaint and colloquial terms like “traitorous”

231
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:33:35am

re: #222 MsJ

After being depressed for what I wrote above, when I read the comments (which I almost always do) in the various articles about this lousy admin, all the usual places that support Republicans are really, really turned around. There are far fewer supporters these days.

That gives me hope.

We are driven by the assumption that there is enough wisdom in the whole people to govern themselves. If that’s not true, we are wrong, and we move on.

…If the good days never come,
We will not know. We will not care.
Our lives were the best. We were the
Happiest men alive in our day.

bopsecrets.org

232
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:34:14am

re: #40 JordanRules

Teeheehee. She’s a national treasure.

[Embedded content]

233
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:34:38am

re: #230 dangerman

just a bunch of well intentioned folks tossing around quaint and colloquial terms like “traitorous”

Tea Party — Just concerned about The Constitution, less government, non-partisan

234
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:36:31am

re: #232 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

Bannon is a racist scumbag himself.

235
Jay C  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:39:22am

re: #221 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content] Club For Growth and Tea Party Patriots launching new website today: “Traitorous Republicans.” Targets are Murkowski, Portman and Capito.

Well, good luck with that: other than (heavily) financing a primary opponent, say, what kind of approach is really going to work on those Senators? Pointing out that they failed to toe the Party line in favor of not destroying their constituents’ healthcare?

236
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:40:16am

re: #234 HappyWarrior

Bannon is a racist scumbag himself.

That that fat, ugly (inside and out) fuck thinks he is supreme in any way makes me want to vomit.

237
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:40:38am

re: #236 MsJ

That that fat, ugly (inside and out) fuck thinks he is supreme in any way makes me want to vomit.

Yep!

238
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:40:48am

re: #235 Jay C

Well, good luck with that: other than (heavily) financing a primary opponent, say, what kind of approach is really going to work on those Senators? Pointing out that they failed to toe the Party line in favor of not destroying their constituents’ healthcare?

Portman was just re-elected. Don’t know about the other two.

239
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:42:56am

re: #238 Sir John Barron

Portman was just re-elected. Don’t know about the other two.

Murkowski is a genetic Republican, but the Alaska party screwed her over bigtime, and she has been extracting a price when it’s convenient.

240
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:43:36am
241
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:43:44am

re: #225 Dr. Matt

The Republicans never discuss how good their healthcare bill is, & it will get even better at lunchtime.The Dems scream death as OCare dies!

— Donald J. Trump

Maybe Republicans could have “discussed” how “good” their healthcare bill was at a hearing.

242
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:44:07am

I don’t think some of the people understand the politics of the healthcare bill passing dance. You fall for the words and don’t look at the actions in front of and behind it all.

Here is a recent article that explains the politics of this. What Mitch says is meant to please, it has nothing to do with what he can actually do both legally and politically. What Trump says doesn’t mean anything because he doesn’t know how any of this works. He is so damn sure he is a winner he can’t see how this will hurt him politically.

LA Times - Column Uh-oh, the GOP has no choice but to work with Democrats on healthcare reform

…CUT…

The healthcare debate isn’t over, of course. Obamacare still needs short-term support and long-term fixes, which the president isn’t eager to provide.

Trump said Tuesday he will now revert to a messy solution he has long proposed: standing back and letting the federal health law fail on its own.

“We’ll let Obamacare fail and then the Democrats are going to come to us, and they’re going to say, ‘How do we fix it?’”

“I’m not going to own it,” he added. “I can tell you, the Republicans are not going to own it.”

Except he already does, in the eyes of many voters. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll last month found that 59% of Americans think the Trump administration now bears responsibility for making Obamacare work — including 56% of Republicans. Translation: Voters expect the governing party to fix problems whether it wants to or not.

Some Senate Republicans have accepted that burden already. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, chairman of the Senate Health Committee, said he’s getting to work to “stabilize the individual [insurance] market.” John McCain of Arizona, hospitalized in his home state, said it’s time to draft new legislation with “input from members of both parties.”

With the collapse of McConnell’s effort, the GOP appears to have lost its chance to pass a bill in the Senate through reconciliation, the arcane budget process that requires a majority of only 50 votes. Any future healthcare bill will need 60 votes instead of 50 — which requires winning support from at least eight Democrats.

If they want to repeal, replace or merely fix Obamacare, Senate Republicans now have no choice but to try to legislate piecemeal changes the old-fashioned way — with hearings, open debate and even a measure of bipartisanship.

That’s probably too optimistic. But as McConnell warned a few weeks ago, they may have no alternative. They’ve tried everything else and failed.

243
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:44:20am

re: #239 Decatur Deb

Murkowski is a genetic Republican, but the Alaska party screwed her over bigtime, and she has been extracting a price when it’s convenient.

and McCain is still waiting for a chance to pay Donny back for dissing his war record…

244
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:44:35am

re: #240 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

ACORN!

245
Stanley Sea  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:44:52am

the yam is yammering on about those illegal votes

246
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:45:27am

re: #243 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

and McCain is still waiting for a chance to pay Donny back for dissing his war record…

Betsy DeVos would have been a good time.

247
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:45:48am
248
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:46:46am

re: #242 ObserverArt

The sudden collapse of Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell’s healthcare bill on Monday was much more than a tactical setback for the Senate Republican leader once considered an unbeatable legislative wizard. It was a catastrophic failure for the GOP’s attempt to make one-party government work. It’s one thing to produce gridlock when control of Congress is divided. When one party manages to produce gridlock all by itself, something is seriously wrong. The setback means that Obamacare will almost certainly survive for the foreseeable future, despite seven years of GOP promises to repeal it.

That’s some sick burn. Just filthy.

249
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:47:03am

re: #247 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

States rights.//

250
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:47:30am

re: #246 HappyWarrior

Betsy DeVos would have been a good time.

No, he wants to wait for it to be a fatal stab in the back…

251
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:48:24am

re: #248 Sir John Barron

It’s one thing to produce gridlock when control of Congress is divided. When one party manages to produce gridlock all by itself, something is seriously wrong.

It’s the one thing they have grown good at doing over the years…

252
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:49:45am

re: #94 b.d.

253
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:49:51am

re: #250 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

No, he wants to wait for it to be a fatal stab in the back…

Wish I could share your optimism, I don’t trust McCain.

254
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:50:46am

re: #242 ObserverArt

I get what you and the LA Times are saying.

I just don’t know if I believe it. Not yet.

255
No Depression  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:51:11am

re: #247 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Can the States sue DOJ for that?

256
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:52:42am

re: #255 No Depression

Can the States sue DOJ for that?

I am thinking the ACLU might.

257
Ace-o-aces  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:52:50am
258
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:54:04am

By this logic the White House should establish a commission to investigate Trump’s, Trump Org’s and all of Trumps associates financial ties to Russia

259
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:55:45am

re: #253 HappyWarrior

Wish I could share your optimism, I don’t trust McCain.

It is not because it would be the decent thing to do , it is a matter of settling a personal score. That I could imagine him doing.

260
Eventual Carrion  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:56:22am

re: #247 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Must be more of those “states rights” the GOP is so big on

261
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:56:31am

re: #258 FormerDirtDart

By this logic the White House should establish a commission to investigate Trump’s, Trump Org’s and all of Trumps associates financial ties to Russia

[Embedded content]

Thanks Mitt for giving Kobach credibility.

262
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 8:57:09am

re: #259 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

It is not because it would be the decent thing to do , it is a matter of settling a personal score. That I could imagine him doing.

No doubt.

263
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:00:31am

re: #187 makeitstop

Right. Unless Trump starts threatening people’s families, I don’t see them even getting to a motion to proceed.

I am about ready to give up commenting on healthcare legislation around here. It seems some people like to roll in the negative instead of trying to fight it off and be positive.

All the defeats and they still do not seem to grasp this is a complete anchor around the neck of Mitch, Paul, Donny and the whole GOP.

Why the fuck does anyone give them any more power than they have?

Mitch is flapping at the jaw to keep his job, he knows he has to posture as the bad guy that is still going to kill it because he needs to put on the show after grandstanding about repeal and replace for 8 years. But behind his talk is an almost insurmountable task to do a full repeal.

Why don’t people understand probably half of the GOP Senators want this out of their hair? Ryan passed a load to give it to the Senate that did not want it.

I know one thing…I am not going to let McConnell bum me out. Fuck that asshole. He is about to hit the mat in this fight so I think it best to keep on punching until he is out cold regarding the ACA.

Standing around bitching and looking for the next punch keeps him in the fight.

264
FormerDirtDart  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:02:07am
265
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:02:36am

re: #177 HappyWarrior

Happy, I was an economics major at Pitt in the 70s where the department was split between Milton Friedman and Murray Rothbard. But there was one token Marxist always marginalized…

266
Archangelus  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:03:37am

So Dana Rohrabacher isn’t so much a Putin worshiper so much as a Kremlin stooge…

267
EPR-radar  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:04:47am

re: #131 dangerman

Yikes. July 2017 could be the month historians look back to as the moment the GOP lost any credible claim to be a plausible governing party.

Bill kristol yesterday

Eight long years of the W Bush fustercluck should have already disabused everyone of the stupid idea that Republicans can govern.

268
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:04:54am

re: #213 FormerDirtDart

269
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:05:09am

Trump’s messaging today? Voter fraud is real, and GOP has a health care plan that will be awesome.

Magical thinking abounds.

270
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:07:18am

The Magical Mystery Tour

271
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:07:32am

re: #269 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Trump’s messaging today? Voter fraud is real, and GOP has a health care plan that will be awesome.

Magical thinking abounds.

The best hope is that his many insane ideas will scuttle his very many horrible ideas.

272
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:08:42am

I already did. :-)

273
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:09:41am

re: #266 Archangelus

So Dana Rohrabacher isn’t so much a Putin worshiper so much as a Kremlin stooge…

“Didn’t happen. Fake news.”

“OK, yeah, I got the video from Putin but I didn’t do anything with it.”

“OK, yeah, I did it. Is there a LAW against that?”

/

274
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:09:57am

re: #270 The Vicious Babushka

The Magical Mystery Tour

[Embedded content]

Bus is named “Further”.

275
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:11:15am

Like he won’t release his tax returns?

276
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:12:44am

re: #270 The Vicious Babushka

The Magical Mystery Tour

I’m starting to think that maybe these are just not very bright guys.

/

277
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:13:03am

re: #272 MsJ

I already did. :-)

[Embedded content]

Dana was a Taliban apologist as late as Spring 2001 but it’s the left that appease Islamic terrorism.

278
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:13:20am

re: #275 The Vicious Babushka

Like he won’t release his tax returns?

[Embedded content]

Fuck off Donny.

279
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:13:40am

re: #276 Sir John Barron

I’m starting to think that maybe these are just not very bright guys.

/

We lost to them.

280
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:14:06am

Grrrrr….

281
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:15:59am

re: #280 MsJ

Grrrrr….

Another area we’ve conceded to Conservatives: Law Enforcement. I don’t think enough liberals consider law enforcement to be a good place for a career. But we need more on the left to join.

282
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:16:39am

I haven’t watched this yet (gotta go shortly) but this is from Democracy Now! and is an interview with the author of the book we were discussing above.

Historian: Republican Push to Replace Obamacare Reflects Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America

283
retired cynic  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:17:20am

re: #275 The Vicious Babushka

Like he won’t release his tax returns?

[Embedded content]

He looks BAD.

284
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:17:52am

re: #281 Belafon

Another area we’ve conceded to Conservatives: Law Enforcement. I don’t think enough liberals consider law enforcement to be a good place for a career. But we need more on the left to join.

Please don’t hate on me but I think we need less veterans in law enforcement. When you are trained that everything is a threat and the only way to neutralize it is through your weapon, that is the mindset you bring to police work.

285
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:18:34am

re: #270 The Vicious Babushka

I’m eager to replace Obamacare and I’m the first one on the bus to the Whitehouse to find the magic to get to “yes”

— ChuckGrassley

Chuck hasn’t gotten the new old repeal memo yet.

286
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:19:07am

re: #283 retired cynic

He looks BAD.

He’s still breathing…doesn’t look so bad.

287
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:21:12am

re: #286 MsJ

He’s still breathing…doesn’t look so bad.

His face skin looks like sinkholes are opening up all over it. Spiders will hatch and crawl out soon.

288
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:23:08am

re: #284 MsJ

Please don’t hate on me but I think we need less veterans in law enforcement. When you are trained that everything is a threat and the only way to neutralize it is through your weapon, that is the mindset you bring to police work.

No, I think you’re completely right. And I’d add to that, perhaps less recently discharged veterans.

289
Timothy Watson  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:23:27am

re: #284 MsJ

Please don’t hate on me but I think we need less veterans in law enforcement. When you are trained that everything is a threat and the only way to neutralize it is through your weapon, that is the mindset you bring to police work.

From my experience, veterans who enter law enforcement tend to be more restrained and less indoctrinated.

290
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:25:02am

re: #284 MsJ

Please don’t hate on me but I think we need less veterans in law enforcement. When you are trained that everything is a threat and the only way to neutralize it is through your weapon, that is the mindset you bring to police work.

Remember, not too long ago, when the Iraq veteran was reprimanded for not immediately pointing his weapon?

From what I’ve seen, it’s not the military training that’s the issue. It’s the mindset of the person. My military training as a nuke electrician would be useless as an LEO.

A good portion of the problem is the inadequate training LEOs are receiving.

291
Dr. Matt  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:25:45am

re: #284 MsJ

Please don’t hate on me but I think we need less veterans in law enforcement. When you are trained that everything is a threat and the only way to neutralize it is through your weapon, that is the mindset you bring to police work.

re: #289 Timothy Watson

From my experience, veterans who enter law enforcement tend to be more restrained and less indoctrinated.

If everyone was armed, we wouldn’t need law enforcement.

292
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:26:23am

I think the real problem is the militarization of police forces. And I think that’s really negatively impacted police relationships with communities. At the same time though, especially in the Deep South, there have been police departments who have been interconnected with the KKK which is an even more disturbing problem.

293
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:26:56am

re: #291 Dr. Matt

If everyone was armed, we wouldn’t need law enforcement.

I’m surprised none of these assholes have pushed for private police forces yet. After all, they do love em some private prison.

294
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:27:41am

re: #267 EPR-radar

Eight long years of the W Bush fustercluck should have already disabused everyone of the stupid idea that Republicans can govern.

well he did say “plausable”

295
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:28:59am

House Rs are pissed, and taking shots at Senate Rs. Good.

House Republicans who took a tough vote to repeal Obamacare late last spring are steaming mad that the Senate has failed to follow suit— and worried it has left them in the lurch heading into tough midterm elections.

A number of GOP members from swing districts stuck their necks out on a bill they knew was politically toxic to move forward with their party’s long-promised efforts to gut the Affordable Care Act, in the hopes that the Senate could return a more palatable alternative. Following the chaotic collapse of parallel efforts in the Senate they face the worst of both worlds: backing unpopular legislation that will be weaponized against them in next year’s campaigns without the benefit of seeing it become law.

Even House Speaker Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) admonitions to his members during a closed-door Tuesday meeting not to rip into their Senate colleagues weren’t enough to keep them quiet.

“We agreed that there was not much use in criticizing the Senate while they were going through their process and I agree with that. I just find it interesting to note the number of geniuses serving in the United States Senate,” Rep. Mark Amodei (R-NV) told TPM, after a long pause and a deep breath, when asked how he was feeling Tuesday evening. “Politically it all still needs fixing whether the Senate does nothing, whether we walked the plank or whatever.”

After an extended diatribe about the process and all the “bovine scat flying around” on the policy debate, Amodei walked away — only to return to admit he was “pissed” at how the Senate dropped the ball.

296
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:29:23am

The other problem is too many prosecution attorneys see themselves as the legal arm of the police departments- see Bob McCulloch in STL County. When you’re a prosecutor, you’re supposed to be speaking for all of your citizens, not just the LEO.

297
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:30:17am

re: #281 Belafon

Another area we’ve conceded to Conservatives: Law Enforcement. I don’t think enough liberals consider law enforcement to be a good place for a career. But we need more on the left to join.

Because it isn’t, until law enforcement is cleaned up by congress and the courts.

If a sane person joins a police force, they put themselves in a position where they have to lie to support corrupt cops, or become an outsider on the force, and eventually wind up out of a job at best.

298
dangerman  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:30:34am

re: #270 The Vicious Babushka

The Magical Mystery Tour

[Embedded content] I’m eager to replace Obamacare and I’m the first one on the bus to the Whitehouse to find the magic to get to “yes”

can be done with a one line bill

1. For all of time past and forward, the term “Obamacare” shall be replaced with the term “Trumpcare”.

fin

299
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:33:46am

re: #297 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Because it isn’t, until law enforcement is cleaned up by congress and the courts.

If a sane person joins a police force, they put themselves in a position where they have to lie to support corrupt cops, or become an outsider on the force, and eventually wind up out of a job at best.

Isn’t that the same reason it’s pointless to run for office?

300
The Vicious Babushka  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:35:45am

I so want to get this movie for my grandkids

301
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:35:46am

re: #279 Decatur Deb

We lost to them.

They lied and cheated.

We have to learn how to beat lying cheaters.

302
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:37:34am

re: #301 wrenchwench

They lied and cheated.

We have to learn how to beat lying cheaters.

Should have learned that long ago.

303
Timothy Watson  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:38:02am

re: #299 Belafon

Isn’t that the same reason it’s pointless to run for office?

You usually don’t have to cover up homicides, assaults, perjury, etc. while being a politician.

304
Stanley Sea  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:38:39am

OK, how do I call a senator from out of state? Do I need to look up and lie about my zip code? If you are an out of state caller, I don’t think it really counts…..

305
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:38:46am

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

I so want to get this movie for my grandkids

My kids loved the books. And any adult who looks at them and frowns about their “quality” needs to STFU because any book that gets kids to read is a good book.

But my youngest is now 12, so I’m not sure they want to see it.

306
Stanley Sea  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:38:56am

And which senator would you target?

307
Decatur Deb  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:39:03am

re: #303 Timothy Watson

You usually don’t have to cover up homicides, assaults, perjury, etc. while being a politician.

Couldn’t hoit.

308
Belafon  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:39:14am

re: #303 Timothy Watson

You usually don’t have to cover up homicides, assaults, perjury, etc. while being a politician.

Usually. **Cough**Trump**Cough**

309
wrenchwench  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:40:04am

re: #302 Decatur Deb

Should have learned that long ago.

They had help. We should have seen that (or been told earlier) too.

310
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:40:52am

re: #292 HappyWarrior

I think the real problem is the militarization of police forces. And I think that’s really negatively impacted police relationships with communities. At the same time though, especially in the Deep South, there have been police departments who have been interconnected with the KKK which is an even more disturbing problem.

Add in too many cops do not live in their policing area. That tends to make us and them thinking. It would be so much better to have members of the very community as police of that community. They have a better feel for the people and the people have a better feel for them.

311
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:42:00am

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

I so want to get this movie for my grandkids

[Embedded content]

It was one of my brother’s favorite books as a child. He took his daughter because of course he did. His reading material has evolved quite a bit in the past 20 years but he’s still a lighthearted kid at heart.

312
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:42:31am

re: #310 ObserverArt

Add in too many cops do not live in their policing area. That tends to make us and them thinking. It would be so much better to have members of the very community as police of that community. They have a better feel for the people and the people have a better feel for them.

Great point. I think I remember reading that most members of the Ferguson PD did not live in the town.

313
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:43:13am

re: #299 Belafon

Isn’t that the same reason it’s pointless to run for office?

No. A Congressmen won’t be shot by another Congressman if he refuses to vote their way.

Honest people need to take over the groups who oversee the police before they can safely move into the police forces themselves. Corruption is too dangerous when the corrupt have guns.

314
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:43:49am

re: #287 The Vicious Babushka

His face skin looks like sinkholes are opening up all over it. Spiders will hatch and crawl out soon.

I really, really hate spiders…but I’m good with that. :-)

315
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:44:05am

re: #310 ObserverArt

Add in too many cops do not live in their policing area. That tends to make us and them thinking. It would be so much better to have members of the very community as police of that community. They have a better feel for the people and the people have a better feel for them.

People have been saying that for at least 40 years. I think they’re right, but it doesn’t get acted on much.

316
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:46:23am

re: #290 Belafon

Remember, not too long ago, when the Iraq veteran was reprimanded for not immediately pointing his weapon?

From what I’ve seen, it’s not the military training that’s the issue. It’s the mindset of the person. My military training as a nuke electrician would be useless as an LEO.

A good portion of the problem is the inadequate training LEOs are receiving.

I am referring to more infantry. I was way over general in my original comment. I was referring to people who handle weapons day in and day out for years at a time - further, those from combat zones (which is far too many).

I appreciate what others have said that some may be less likely to react. I can’t say because this is far from my personal wheelhouse, but at a bare minimum, there needs to be psychological testing done to ensure that someone going into law enforcement doesn’t do so just to go fuck up a bunch of people.

317
Jay C  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:47:12am

re: #267 EPR-radar

Eight long years of the W Bush fustercluck should have already disabused everyone of the stupid idea that Republicans can govern.

Yeah, but then we had eight (all too short) years of an Obama Administration that lulled too many people into thinking/assuming that “the system” had righted itself, and that the normal checks-and-balances of power in Washington would “deal” with an imbalance of incompetence.

And then Donald Trump got elected President……

318
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:47:31am

re: #295 makeitstop

House Rs are pissed, and taking shots at Senate Rs. Good.

I knew that was coming.

(huge gaping smile…lots of teeth showing)

319
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:50:15am

re: #295 makeitstop

House Republicans who took a tough vote to repeal Obamacare late last spring are steaming mad that the Senate has failed to follow suit— and worried it has left them in the lurch heading into tough midterm elections.

“Tough Vote”: Voting for shit bill my party leaders wanted but which is malicious in intent and unworkable in practice

320
makeitstop  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:51:27am

re: #319 Sir John Barron

“Tough Vote”: Voting for shit bill my party leaders wanted but which is malicious in intent and unworkable in practice

…and worst of all, might cost me my cushy gig in the upcoming mid-terms.

321
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:52:04am

re: #295 makeitstop

A number of GOP members from swing districts stuck their necks out on a bill they knew was politically toxic to move forward with their party’s long-promised efforts to gut the Affordable Care Act, in the hopes that the Senate could return a more palatable alternative

Although the Senate “bill” was just as toxic, wasn’t it?

322
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:53:02am

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

I so want to get this movie for my grandkids

[Embedded content]

That trailer was hysterical! So funny!

Hubby and I are total animated film nuts. This is definitely on the list! Thanks!

323
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:55:01am

re: #304 Stanley Sea

OK, how do I call a senator from out of state? Do I need to look up and lie about my zip code? If you are an out of state caller, I don’t think it really counts…..

“I will screw you out of your healthcare because congress didn’t pass a bill to screw you out of your healthcare.”

/

324
nines09  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:55:27am
325
HappyWarrior  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:56:31am

re: #324 nines09

[Embedded content]

I feel so bad for the Nuncio that’s going to have to deal with her.

326
Sir John Barron  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:56:36am

re: #324 nines09

The Pope and the President share a great concern about our environment. President Trump wants to maintain that we have clean air and clean water and that the United States remains an environmental leader. As President Trump said, we will disengage and pull out of the Paris agreement. and either reenter the Paris agreement or an entirely new agreement. One that is fair to Americans. If confirmed I look forward to working with the Holy See…

Gosh this is brain-dead

327
MsJ  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:58:36am

re: #310 ObserverArt

Add in too many cops do not live in their policing area. That tends to make us and them thinking. It would be so much better to have members of the very community as police of that community. They have a better feel for the people and the people have a better feel for them.

I wish I had 100 more updings for that.

328
ObserverArt  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:58:51am

re: #306 Stanley Sea

And which senator would you target?

Start with Mitch McConnell. Being that he is Majority Leader he should take emails and calls from everyone.

Here is his contact form online. I checked it, it will take contacts from all US citizens.

Contact Form for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

I think many Senators allow outside contacts. I don’t remember Ohio’s Rob Portman asking for Ohio info, he too allows outsiders. Since he is on the fence and struggling you might contact him.

Contact Form Ohio Senator Rob Portman

I use these online contact forms because they do get to them. Many of the GOP Senators are not taking phone calls.

Just use Google and type in “contact Senator (Name)” and the forms pop up. Look for www.(Lastname).senate.gov as the web address.

Here is a general link to contact info for ALL U.S. Senate members. I think the links go to all of their contact forms like those linked above.

Senators of the 115th Congress

Let ‘em have it! But be fairly nice as in no cussing, etc. Sugar coat your hate for them and this legislation.

329
lawhawk  Jul 19, 2017 • 9:59:44am

re: #275 The Vicious Babushka

330
nines09  Jul 19, 2017 • 10:03:47am

re: #325 HappyWarrior

re: #326 Sir John Barron

Newt Gingrich never uses his full title. Forever Disgraced Former Speaker Of The House And Two Time Adulterer That We Know Of. I wonder why….
“Your Eminence…….The Whore is here……”

331
Unshaken Defiance  Jul 19, 2017 • 10:04:44am

re: #4 piratedan

Have you seen this?
It’s a good timeline, but i can’t figure out how to Page it attractively.
wnyc.org

332
darthstar  Jul 19, 2017 • 10:32:54am
333
A Mom Anon  Jul 19, 2017 • 10:38:31am

re: #300 The Vicious Babushka

Do they have the books? Get them those too. I spent many an evening giggling with The Kid reading those when he was younger. They’re goofy and silly, he still has those books and won’t part with them.

334
Dr Lizardo  Jul 19, 2017 • 11:01:01am

re: #297 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Because it isn’t, until law enforcement is cleaned up by congress and the courts.

If a sane person joins a police force, they put themselves in a position where they have to lie to support corrupt cops, or become an outsider on the force, and eventually wind up out of a job at best.

For instance, see this film: imdb.com

335
Amory Blaine  Jul 19, 2017 • 11:12:04am

re: #281 Belafon

Another area we’ve conceded to Conservatives: Law Enforcement. I don’t think enough liberals consider law enforcement to be a good place for a career. But we need more on the left to join.

Police hiring commissions weed out leftists. Libs pound sand.

336
Pineapple Pizzagate  Jul 19, 2017 • 4:11:11pm

re: #332 darthstar

It’s fake.


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Gary Clark Jr - Come Together (Official Music Video) [From the Justice League Movie Soundtrack] Official Video for "Come Together" by Gary Clark Jr. featured in the Justice League Movie trailer. In theaters November 17th 2017.Directed by Kris Merc Get the song now at garyclarkjr.com Check out the Justice League soundtrack here: lnk.to Follow ...
Thanos
6 days, 8 hours ago
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Kimbra - Top of the World (Official Music Video)New from Kimbra The new single Top of the World is available now on Apple Music, Spotify, Google Play, and more. Get the single here - kmbra.me The new studio album Primal Heart out wwide January 19th, 2018Preorder now - ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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The Barr Brothers - Song That I Heard (Live on KEXP) kexp.org presents The Barr Brothers performing "Song That I Heard" live at Breakglass Studios during POP Montreal 2017. Recorded September 16, 2017. Audio Engineer: James BenjaminCameras: Jim Beckmann, Ian Cameron & Scott HolpainenEditor: Jim Beckmann kexp.orgpopmontreal.combreakglass.ca With support from ...
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
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Left Cries Foul, but Electoral College Prevents Tyranny of the Majority I'm speechless...this is what we have to fight against: Image: constitution-1486010_960_720.jpg Author: Paul Jenkins(Paul Jenkins is editor of the anchoragedailyplanet.com, a division of Porcaro Communications) The political left and its mouthpiece, The New York Times, are still fuming over ...
Cheechako
1 week, 1 day ago
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Tune-Yards - Look at Your Hands (Official Video) 'Look at Your Hands' by Tune-Yards. New album 'I can feel you creep into my private life' is released January 19th 2018: smarturl.it Video by Michael SpeedFootage by Marisa Gesualdi & Jennifer SommerAdditional photos by Nate Brenner, Ginger Fierstein ...
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
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Beck Performing ‘Up All Night’ Live on KCRW Watch / Listen to the full session here: kcrw.com Beck has always been a chameleon and his latest Colors finds him returning to the incredibly upbeat songs that drove earlier albums like Odelay and Guero. This performance, recorded at ...
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
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Thundercat Performs ‘Them Changes’ With Jon Batiste & Stay Human Bass-man and musical wunderkind Thundercat sits in with the Late Show house band to perform this track off his latest album 'Drunk.' Subscribe To "The Late Show" Channel HERE: bit.lyFor more content from "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert", ...
Thanos
1 week, 3 days ago
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