Vancouver Police Detain, Then Release Man for Nearly Running Down Antifa Protesters With His Truck

Politics • Views: 34,033
Credit: Willy Gagan

A man driving a truck festooned with American and Confederate flags was briefly detained by Vancouver police yesterday, after he sped in reverse through a group of protesters after a “Patriot Prayer” rally in Vancouver, Washington.

A black Chevy Silverado with Oregon plates and two large American flags and several small flags hanging from its windows (along with a Confederate flag decal displayed on the back window of the cab) drove up to the marchers. It was driving slowly down a street flanked by people dressed in black bloc clothing.

As the crowd parted to clear the way for the truck to move forward, protesters filled the street behind it and started throwing rocks and water bottles at the truck.

The driver suddenly put his vehicle in reverse and accelerated toward the protesters. As he sped up, people jumped out of the street. The driver continued to drive in reverse for nearly a block, stopping at the next intersection and revving his engine.

The protesters yelled for everyone to clear the street and changed their path to escape the truck, walking down 6th Avenue to Washington Street. At that point, however, the truck re-appeared, cutting the marchers off.

A Vancouver police vehicle pulled up behind he truck, sirens blaring, and the truck stopped after turning left on Washington Street. The man, who could not be immediately identified, was detained at the scene.

Here’s video from the scene, shot by reporter Mike Bivins:

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Notice that the guy is smirking and clearly pleased with himself as police handcuff him. And after this, he was not arrested and charged with menacing with a deadly weapon.

Correction: This story originally said the driver of the Silverado was arrested. In fact, he was handcuffed and placed in a patrol car but later released without arrest, according to a Vancouver Police spokeswoman.

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429 comments
1
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:01:57am

I saw the headline and I thought this was in Vancouver BC and I’m like WTF.

2
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:02:00am

Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses

3
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:03:51am

It’s the throwing stuff without provocation that’s annoying. He was looking for a reason to run into people. Now he could have done it just having someone look at him cross eyed, but he doesn’t need any encouragement.

Edit: Plus it gives the police a reason to release him.

4
Kragar  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:06:55am

Anyone flying a Confederate flag is making the statement that they will kill in the name of White Supremacy.

5
Kragar  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:11:51am
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6
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:13:27am

re: #5 Kragar

I can’t see what we’re learning from, but not putting up statues of Jesus means that not only do we not violate the constitution, we don’t violate the Ten Commandments.

7
drool  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:14:51am

This a-hole needs to be made famous.

8
mmmirele  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:16:35am

re: #4 Kragar

Anyone flying a Confederate flag is making the statement that they will kill in the name of White Supremacy.

Yeah. You got it. Time to punch Nazis and supporters of the Lost Cause.

9
Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:18:42am

re: #4 Kragar

Anyone flying a Confederate flag is making the statement that they will kill in the name of White Supremacy.

yeah, that is pretty much true, IMHO.

It’s not a symbol with which I’d like to be associated.

10
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:19:12am

Facebook Post

Comments are interesting. Lots of RWNJ attempts to excuse this by accusing the “liberal media” of propagandizing for Hillary. Yes, folks, the right openly claims equivalence between a foreign government outlet and the American free press.

11
sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:19:49am

The car horn blaring “Dixie” is just the right extra bit of subtle signifier.

12
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:19:51am

re: #8 mmmirele

Yeah. You got it. Time to punch Nazis and supporters of the Lost Cause.

Agree. Throwing bottles at trucks is not punching Nazis. No Nazi is scared of a water bottle being thrown at a truck.

13
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:20:23am

If you look at right wing blog posts about the Vancouver protests, they’re all about Antifa getting violent, nothing about this guy and his truck.

Jim Hoft has redesigned his site, and it looks like pure garbage. The typography is absolutely awful.

14
Eventual Carrion  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:23:02am

re: #5 Kragar

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WE NEED MORE GRAVEN IMAGES!!!

15
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:25:41am
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16
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:27:02am
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17
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:27:07am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

If you look at right wing blog posts about the Vancouver protests, they’re all about Antifa getting violent, nothing about this guy and his truck.

Jim Hoft has redesigned his site, and it looks like pure garbage. The typography is absolutely awful.

Seems to me that the easiest way to get rid of AntiFascists would be to get rid of the fascists?

18
sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:27:52am

re: #16 JordanRules

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If Emmett Till were still alive, he’d be four years younger than Morgan Freeman.

19
unproven innocence  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:28:15am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

[snip]The typography is absolutely awful.

Clearly, you really don’t like this Hoft guy.
:)

20
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:29:09am

All the comments, as you can well imagine, are either HURR HURR MICHAEL MOORE IS TEH FATNESS!!!!1!!! and HURR HURR WHY DON’T HILLERY OPEN HER HOUSE FOR TEH HOMELESS!!!!1!!!!

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:29:32am
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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:31:57am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

If you look at right wing blog posts about the Vancouver protests, they’re all about Antifa getting violent, nothing about this guy and his truck.

Jim Hoft has redesigned his site, and it looks like pure garbage. The typography is absolutely awful.

WholeAss Bold was an interesting font choice for sure.

23
Shropshire Slasher  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:32:17am
“Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of our time: the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence. Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.” (Nobel Prize acceptance speech, Stockholm, Sweden, 1964.)

MLK

24
jaunte  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:33:07am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Big fat serif: the conservative choice.

25
sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:33:18am

re: #18 sagehen

If Emmett Till were still alive, he’d be four years younger than Morgan Freeman.

The four little girls killed in that Birmingham church bombing? Condoleeza Rice went to pre-school with them.

26
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:34:20am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

WholeAss Bold was an interesting font choice for sure.

The font is actually named “Abril Fatface.” Not making this up.

27
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:34:25am

wtfits

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lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:35:04am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Sure that isn’t half-assed bold? Can we get a ruling from the congregation?

29
jaunte  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:36:01am

“…It’s only available in a single weight and style, but for a display typeface like this that might be all you need.”
typewolf.com”

30
Sir John Barron  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:37:05am

re: #27 The Vicious Babushka

wtfits

Less government, Freedom, don’t tread on me, the government should be afraid of the people not people afraid of the government, etc.

////

31
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:38:17am

re: #27 The Vicious Babushka

I think men who cheat on their spouses should be prevent for voting. They’ve already proven they can’t be loyal.

32
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:39:44am

re: #29 jaunte

“…It’s only available in a single weight and style, but for a display typeface like this that might be all you need.”
typewolf.com”

He took a font that has no bold variant, and set it to font-weight: bold. That’s why all the openings in the letters are filled in. It’s hilariously awful, and even funnier when you realize they looked at this and said, “YEAH! That’s looking GOOD!”

33
goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:41:45am

re: #32 Charles Johnson

He took a font that has no bold variant, and set it to font-weight: bold. That’s why all the openings in the letters are filled in. It’s hilariously awful, and even funnier when you realize they looked at this and said, “YEAH! That’s looking GOOD!”

No joke it’s literally worse than forty hitlers.

34
Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:44:15am

Dalai Lama Says Terror May Need a Violent Reply
 — 2003

35
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:45:25am
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Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:46:33am
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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:47:39am

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

No joke it’s literally worse than forty hitlers.

The lowercase g in Disgrace is the real disgrace. Like, I don’t know a lot about typography but I know readability is the modern digital end goal.

39
Jay C  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:47:45am

re: #20 The Vicious Babushka

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I really hate to have to say it, but Junior looks to be right here, Much as I’d love to see Mar-a-Lago (and no other buildings in the area) smashed into rubble by a hurricane, and the rubble washed out to sea; if it really was in an evacuation zone, it’s dumb of Moore to make that comment (he should have checked).

40
danarchy  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:48:34am

re: #17 b.d. (bill d.)

Seems to me that the easiest way to get rid of AntiFascists would be to get rid of the fascists?

That would be a great way to get rid of AntiFascists, It is a horrible way to get rid of Antifa. Antifa are anarchists, and without nazis and white supremacists to focus their indignation on they gladly turn on our elected governments and the organizations that maintain civil society and and violently protest their “facism”

41
Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:48:34am

re: #39 Jay C

I really hate to have to say it, but Junior look to be right here, Much as I’d love to see Mar-a-Lago (and no other buildings in the area) smashed into rubble by a hurricane, and the rubble washed out to sea, if it really was in an evacuation zone, it’s dumb of Moore to make that comment (he should have checked)

no, no, no

Mar-a-Lago is architecturally significant. Don’t blame the building.

42
jaunte  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:50:41am
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abajournal.com

43
goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:53:34am

re: #41 Birth Control Works

no, no, no

Mar-a-Lago is architecturally significant. Don’t blame the building.

Still, given the projected rate of sea level rise odds are pretty good that Mar-a-Lago won’t survive through to the end of this century. In the long term it’s already fucked.

44
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 11, 2017 • 11:54:32am

Cops are on his side and he knows it.

45
Shropshire Slasher  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:00:51pm

Help, I Can’t Stop Hooking Up With Trump Supporters.

When someone asks about my worst hookup, I have plenty of options to choose from, but I inevitably end up telling the same story. It’s the one where I started arguing with a Trump supporter at a bar and then before I knew it, I was waking up the next morning in his bedroom. There were flags everywhere: Ronald Reagan’s face was emblazoned on one of them, “Don’t Tread On Me” made an appearance on another. I say it was the “worst” not because the sex was bad, but because, well, see above.

46
Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:01:30pm

re: #45 Shropshire Slasher

Help, I Can’t Stop Hooking Up With Trump Supporters.

I think I’d stop drinking.

47
Birth Control Works  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:01:39pm

bbl

48
goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:02:30pm
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50
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:09:02pm
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51
MsJ  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:10:01pm

re: #17 b.d. (bill d.)

Seems to me that the easiest way to get rid of AntiFascists would be to get rid of the fascists?

Duuuuuude…..quit thinking so…logical-leee. //

52
goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:10:08pm
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MsJ  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:14:57pm

re: #46 Birth Control Works

I think I’d stop drinking.

I think I’d super glue my vajajay.

54
BlueSpotinAL  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:16:39pm

“John Lott, who is presenting tomorrow to the voter fraud commission, will advocate background checks for voting. “

I am sure we can count on Mary Rosh’s support.

55
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:16:56pm

re: #53 MsJ

You should have come clean my monitor for that one!
Luckily it was only water. Still L’ingOL

56
makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:19:59pm
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57
Mike Lamb  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:21:25pm

re: #36 Birth Control Works

Why does this clown think that Democrats would get behind this idea? It’s no different than demanding voters present a specific form of identification.

58
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:27:08pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

He took a font that has no bold variant, and set it to font-weight: bold. That’s why all the openings in the letters are filled in. It’s hilariously awful, and even funnier when you realize they looked at this and said, “YEAH! That’s looking GOOD!”

Brought to you by the same idiots who absolutely love Comic Sans.

59
Sir John Barron  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:28:29pm

re: #57 Mike Lamb

Why does this clown think that Democrats would get behind this idea? It’s no different than demanding voters present a specific form of identification.

He doesn’t. It’s a talking point for the media.

“See, my proposal is so reasonable and fair, no one but a terrible partisan who hates America would disagree with my great idea for simple background checks, and the media should shame Democrats who won’t join in supporting my totally reasonable and not transparently self-serving, unconstitutional, and impractical idea.”

60
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:28:45pm

Moon Jae-in nominee sparks uproar over creationist views

A South Korean nominee for Seoul’s startups and small businesses ministry raised eyebrows on Monday when he said he adheres to creationism, or the belief the Earth was created by a divine force and is only “6,000 years old.”

Park Seong-jin, an engineering professor at Pohang University of Science and Technology, said during a parliamentary hearing in Seoul science should not rule out views of creation from the viewpoint of Christian faith.

“I think the divine age of the Earth could be different from its scientific age,” Park said. “As an adherent of creationism, [I believe] the Earth’s age is 6,000 years, as put forward by the church.”

[…]

This is what decades of American evangelicalism has wrought in South Korea. After the war there was quite the growth of Christianity in South Korea, of the evangelical/fundamentalist kind.

I remember while living in Japan that many of the Koreans I met were indeed such.

61
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:29:18pm

re: #36 Birth Control Works

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Sounds less to me like a serious proposal and more like a stealth effort to discredit background checks. Wingnuts already insist that the background check system is flawed and leads to “false positives,” so the opportunity to get Democrats on record saying as such would be too much to pass up.

62
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:29:45pm
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Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:30:00pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

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Can you spell “entrapment,” children?

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Mike Lamb  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:30:13pm

re: #59 Sir John Barron

He doesn’t. It’s a talking point for the media.

“See, my proposal is so reasonable and fair, no one but a terrible partisan who hates America would disagree with my great idea for simple background checks, and the media should shame Democrats who won’t join in supporting my totally reasonable and not transparently self-serving, unconstitutional, and impractical idea.”

I’m not even sure the media would buy it. It’s mind-numbingly stupid and the exact type of thing that only the GOP might support.

65
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:30:55pm

re: #56 makeitstop

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Too bad Bernie won’t get his supporters to agree that obsessing about the primaries is silly.

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:32:15pm
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jaunte  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:33:28pm
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jaunte  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:33:40pm
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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:34:06pm

Always fun to wake up to a Monday morning with no power.

Fridge appears to have made it through the unscheduled outage okay. I apparently slept through a nice windstorm (completely unexpected) that took out a bunch of trees and branches down here early this morning.

71
Hecuba's daughter  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:34:08pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Too bad Bernie won’t get his supporters to agree that obsessing about the primaries is silly.

No — obsessing about the primaries is logical; it’s obsessing about an election that was impacted by foreign intervention and voter disenfranchisement that is silly //

72
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:35:40pm
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Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:38:11pm

What exactly is Jefferson Beauregard’s plan when his staff get together and tell him where to shove that polygraph machine? Fire the lot of them and bury the DOJ in wrongful termination lawsuits?

74
Jay C  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:41:07pm

re: #73 Targetpractice

What exactly is Jefferson Beauregard’s plan when his staff get together and tell him where to shove that polygraph machine? Fire the lot of them and bury the DOJ in wrongful termination lawsuits?

Probably more like “fire the lot of them and replace them with carefully pre-vetted “loyalists” (of the sort for whom polygraph exams won’t be considered necessary).

75
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:41:08pm
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sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:41:19pm

re: #67 jaunte

re: #68 jaunte

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I always appreciate when flood videos include benches, cars and fire hydrants to give a sense of depth; so many of the flooded road videos I can’t tell.

77
bratwurst  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:42:06pm

Shit show alert!

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I’d say “mark your calendars” but they don’t tell us when and where.

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sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:42:44pm

re: #77 bratwurst

Shit show alert!

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I’d say “mark your calendars” but they don’t tell us when and where.

If you were the sort of person they wanted there, you’d already know.

79
Sir John Barron  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:44:46pm

re: #77 bratwurst

Shit show alert!

I’d say “mark your calendars” but they don’t tell us when and where.

If they said ‘where’ or ‘when’ then the Deep State would know and thwart them.

See how smart they are?

/

80
Stanley Sea  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:46:31pm
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Good read

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The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:48:10pm

re: #72 klys (maker of Silmarils)

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Been there, done that.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:48:15pm
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Jay C  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:48:43pm

re: #79 Sir John Barron

If they said ‘where’ or ‘when’ then the Deep State would know and thwart them.

See how smart they are?

/

Yep. So when nobody shows up, they can cite it as “proof” that the Deep State is out to get them…..

84
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:49:00pm

re: #77 bratwurst

Shit show alert!

I’d say “mark your calendars” but they don’t tell us when and where.

It makes way more sense if you replace state with throat.

85
mmmirele  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:50:19pm

re: #77 bratwurst

Shit show alert!

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I’d say “mark your calendars” but they don’t tell us when and where.

Not Dr. Gorka? (His Ph.D is questionable, to say the least.)

86
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:50:50pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:55:46pm
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Stanley Sea  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:56:30pm

Looking for Dirt Dart’s check-in…….

89
Mike Lamb  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:56:45pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

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Which one is the good photo?

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:57:35pm

re: #82 goddamnedfrank

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Weaselone  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:57:53pm

re: #89 Mike Lamb

Which one is the good photo?

I had the same question. He looks evil in both photos, but it looks like he’s gone longer between feedings in the whiter one.

92
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:58:22pm

Facebook Post

93
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 12:59:11pm

Just watched the video of Bernie on Colbert linked above in Makeitstop’s #56.

Nice greeting there Bernie. So nice of you to literally blow Colbert off shaking his hand so you can take in those applause.

They are going to need bigger studios for these shows for Bernie. I don’t know if there is enough clearance to get his big head into the building.

Also, I note Colbert asked him about “Ponies” and how are we going to pay for them, and Bernie slide right past that without one simple explanation that touches on taxes, funding, legislation and all the nuts and bolts that can make something like health insurance for all work.

I agree though Bernie was right about moving on from 2016. Let’s do it without any of the 2016 Democratic candidates. Hillary already has said no more runs for office. Bernie? You’re next up to tell everyone you are not running.

94
Mike Lamb  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:01:28pm

re: #92 electrotek

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I’ll just keep my mouth shut.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:02:17pm
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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:03:29pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:03:49pm
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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:05:15pm

re: #95 goddamnedfrank

I don’t even like to think the word. To say it …I can’t? Like, even when describing what someone else said I can’t.

99
retired cynic  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:06:06pm

I’m still cautiously appreciating Jennifer Rubin. Who changed her? She’s got it right on DT now being “independent.”

100
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:09:00pm

re: #93 ObserverArt

I agree though Bernie was right about moving on from 2016. Let’s do it without any of the 2016 Democratic candidates. Hillary already has said no more runs for office. Bernie? You’re next up to tell everyone you are not running.

Moving on sounds like such a great idea. In 2020, I’ll be 42, and it will be only the second election in my lifetime that did not have a member of the Bush or Clinton family running in the presidential election (assuming George P doesn’t decide to run). Hopefully new voices/faces/ideas will appear in both parties by then.

101
goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:09:02pm
Republican lawmaker Devin Nunes’ investigation into whether Obama administration officials used classified intelligence reports to discredit Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign team could backfire on the congressman - and the president, sources familiar with the reports said.

The reports contain no evidence that any aides to former Democratic President Barack Obama acted improperly, the sources said, but they do indicate some Trump associates may have violated an obscure 1799 law, the Logan Act, which prohibits unauthorized U.S. citizens from negotiating with a foreign government that has a dispute with the United States.

Unfortunately the Logan Act is practically toothless.

102
makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:10:47pm

re: #92 electrotek

‘My house is gone’

No worries, Milo. I’m sure Rebekah Mercer will buy you another one.

/half

103
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:10:52pm

Yo. We’re really formally on the wrong side of damn near everything as a country now. 8 months of destruction.

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lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:11:47pm

re: #92 electrotek

Sorry, not sorry.

Sucks he lost his home to flooding. It could happen to anyone.

But there is a certain amount of schadenfreude that he lost his - particularly in light of all the bible thumpers (and Kirk Cameron) who say a storm like this is a sign… of something.

Will this change his opinion on global warming or climate change or sea level rise? Doubt it.

He’ll just redouble his efforts to grift on the right wing media circuit.

105
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:15:42pm

I suspect being on a war footing for almost two full decades probably led to results like this:

The USS Fitzgerald had expired training certification for 10 out of 10 key warfare mission areas in June, and the USS John S. McCain had let its certifications lapse in six out of the 10 mission areas, the data show.

Those were the ships recently involved in at sea collisions. We are so royally fucked.

106
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:17:38pm

re: #105 KGxvi

Maintenance and training costs in the end are far more of a burden then the initial acquisition costs.

If the war hawks want to maintain a globally dominant navy, then they need to find a way to pay for it.

107
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:19:04pm

dammit

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:19:13pm
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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:22:03pm

re: #108 electrotek

Last I saw, a GoFundMe for him had raised 15k.

Some folks in the thread knew one of the officers and said he has a horrible history and rep. They knew his name and had links.

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Ace-o-aces  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:22:29pm
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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:23:38pm

re: #109 JordanRules

Last I saw, a GoFundMe for him had raised 15k.

Some folks in the thread knew one of the officers and said he has a horrible history and rep. They knew his name and had links.

Fuck yes, that gives me hope for American humanity.

I was really angry when I saw this video so I’m glad something positive came out of it for the victim.

112
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:24:08pm

re: #111 electrotek

Me too! People rallied big time.

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bratwurst  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:24:48pm
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ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:25:14pm

re: #99 retired cynic

I’m still cautiously appreciating Jennifer Rubin. Who changed her? She’s got it right on DT now being “independent.”

I don’t think she has changed. She is just not going to blow smoke up Trump’s ass because he is a “Republican” and beat Hillary.

She is smart enough to realize how dangerous he is for everyone.

So, she is still a conservative, just one that is thinking straight instead of trying to normalize a monster so you can get some of your conservative ideas accomplished.

She will be Jennifer Rubin again in other words. Just after Trump.

115
sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:26:15pm

re: #108 electrotek

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I didn’t notice them counting the money and giving a receipt…

116
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:27:02pm

re: #93 ObserverArt

I read something on a Twitter thread about HRC’s new book. Someone was saying “Now is not the time for this. We need to unify!” They claimed to have worked for and voted for Clinton, so it’s not the usual BernieBro noise.

It made me wonder - when IS the time for this? If they’re saying she shouldn’t publish NOW, when’s a good time?

Clearly you have to give Clinton time to gain some perspective, do a little digging, and then actually WRITE the thing. So, it couldn’t really have been in the last 6 months.

Right now, we’re 14 months till the 2018 election, so she shouldn’t publish before that, because we need to unify, right?

Once that’s over, it’ll only be 24 months till the 2020 election, and of course we won’t want anything distracting from that, causing recriminations, etc. So she can’t publish it then, either.

Gee, sure seems like the basic message is that we shouldn’t look at what happened and try to analyze it and understand it. We should just blunder forward without doing that, because that will assure us of victory, right?

117
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:28:44pm
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118
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:29:50pm

re: #116 Blind Frog Belly White

People want to run away from introspection and the ugliness that exists.

Anytime is the right time to do some introspection. Those who are afraid to do so are afraid of seeing something they want to avoid.

I’m still waiting for one of the better known politicians to tackle head on the problem in American polity and society in general: our unwillingness to let go of failed views of the world and all that is around us.

119
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:32:41pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

I’d argue that one led to the other.

The exploitation of the murder of a few thousand people in order to turn the US into an even more militaristic and police state is probably the darkest part of my time life.

Yes, I was alive during the turbulence of the 1960’s. Yet the general movement of society at that time was to confront the sins of our past and to try and not repeat them.

Now there is the crafty marketing of war, bigotry, and even more exploitation.

On my Facebook wall there is no end of gullible fools who through some combination of hatred and ignorance buy what Trump and his ilk sell.

120
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:33:44pm

re: #118 freetoken

People want to run away from introspection and the ugliness that exists.

Anytime is the right time to do some introspection. Those who are afraid to do so are afraid of seeing something they want to avoid.

I’m still waiting for one of the better known politicians to tackle head on the problem in American polity and society in general: our unwillingness to let go of failed views of the world and all that is around us.

I’ve noticed that the Bros have started adopting this “We need to move on!” bit as their defense when you start picking apart Bernie’s flaws or pointing out how badly they ratfucked Hillary. They want to revisit last year only when it’s to push the idea that Bernie “could have won!,” but if you start pointing out how they did so much to kneecap Hillary, they want to “move on” and insist we “stop living in the past.”

121
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:35:07pm

re: #119 freetoken

Is that why we pulled down all of those Confederate statues back then?

From what I remember, a big part of Nixon and Reagan’s appeal was whites avoiding their responsibility for the past.

122
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:35:13pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

The 9/11 attacks were a horrific event in US history, but the election of Donald Trump will be seen as equally disastrous, if not more so.

It’s worse. We did it to ourselves.

123
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:35:34pm

re: #114 ObserverArt

I don’t think she has changed. She is just not going to blow smoke up Trump’s ass because he is a “Republican” and beat Hillary.

She is smart enough to realize how dangerous he is for everyone.

So, she is still a conservative, just one that is thinking straight instead of trying to normalize a monster so you can get some of your conservative ideas accomplished.

She will be Jennifer Rubin again in other words. Just after Trump.

I’d say this is the flips side of the observation I often see among NeverTrump Republicans who bemoan the nonsensical rantings of people they used to agree with. “He used to be smart! He used to make sense!” Or their grief that Trump ‘hijacked’ their ‘Not Racist At All!’ GOP.

They failed to recognize the rot in their fellow Republicans, whether individually, or as a party, or in Conservatism as a whole. But it’s been there my whole life, going back to the Birchers, or William F Buckley, for that matter, who made a name for himself backing the white supremacists of the Civil Rights era. Nixon called for ‘Law and Order’. Reagan spoke of ‘Welfare Queens’ and ‘Young bucks on street corners’. GHWB had his Willie Horton ads.

They’ve spent all this time appealing to white racists, and they they’re shocked - Shocked! - to discover a party full of racists.

124
MsJ  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:36:01pm

re: #89 Mike Lamb

Which one is the good photo?

That was my question.

125
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:37:54pm

re: #122 I Would Prefer Not To

It’s worse. We did it to ourselves.

I’d argue that the election of Donald Trump is Osama bin Laden’s dream achieved.

126
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:37:56pm

re: #120 Targetpractice

They want to revisit last year only when it’s to push the idea that Bernie “could have won!,” but if you start pointing out how they did so much to kneecap Hillary, they want to “move on” and insist we “stop living in the past.”

I know. It’s hard for them to admit that their emotionalism which drove them is really similar to the emotionalism that drives the Trumpers.

I voted for Hillary. But I’ve never liked her.

As I wrote on election day, I voted for my great grandmother, who was a bit of a feminist at the time (way back when), who became one of the most educated women in her region at the time and celebrated when she could finally vote.

My vote was thus a symbolic one, not based on my “likes.” Sure, I believed and even more so now believe Trump is a horrible person and would never vote for him. Yet I wanted the Democratic slate of 2016 candidates to be different than what we ended up with. Nevertheless, my vote was not about the person for whom I voted.

127
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:38:56pm
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Justice Kennedy has temporarily put on hold part of federal appeals court ruling last week that had narrowed President’s Trump’s travel ban, CBS News Chief Legal Correspondent Jan Crawford reports. In a brief order, Kennedy granted the administration’s request to block the 9th Circuit’s ruling that the ban wouldn’t cover refugees working with U.S. refugee agencies or with formal assurances from resettlement organizations.

128
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:40:22pm

I guess my point is this: politics is about compromise, and maybe symbolism.

In reality governance is complicated for a nation of 330 million people. It takes skill and determination to govern well.

What gets me excited is not necessarily how I should select someone to govern. It just isn’t. But I know that I’m in the contrarian minority of the polity.

129
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:40:47pm

The “NeverTrump” crowd, the Rubins, the Scarboroughs, the Ericksons, they’re all absolutely full of shit. It was the same during the Bush years: When he was ascendant, they demanded absolute fealty to him and attacked the patriotism of anyone who wasn’t wearing a lapel pin or humming “Proud to be an American.” Then when he started the slide into the depths, they flipped to being critical of him and acting as though he was at odds with the GOP.

All that’s different with Trump is the “WITH US OR AGAINST US!” stage was instead replaced with a “Give him a chance!” stage.

130
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:41:46pm
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131
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:41:46pm

re: #126 freetoken

I know. It’s hard for them to admit that their emotionalism which drove them is really similar to the emotionalism that drives the Trumpers.

I voted for Hillary. But I’ve never liked her.

As I wrote on election day, I voted for my great grandmother, who was a bit of a feminist at the time (way back when), who became one of the most educated women in her region at the time and celebrated when she could finally vote.

My vote was thus a symbolic one, not based on my “likes.” Sure, I believed and even more so now believe Trump is a horrible person and would never vote for him. Yet I wanted the Democratic slate of 2016 candidates to be different than what we ended up with. Nevertheless, my vote was not about the person for whom I voted.

Why? And why do so many Dems feel like this is something that they should say?

I mean, lots of folks weren’t tickled with Al Gore, or Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, or for that matter Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. But nobody ever says, “I voted for John Kerry, but I’ve never liked him”.

Why is that even an issue?

132
lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:41:54pm
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133
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:42:52pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yup.

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Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:43:11pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

IIRC, Rubin has never supported Trump.

135
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:44:31pm

re: #131 Blind Frog Belly White

Why? And why do so many Dems feel like this is something that they should say?

I mean, lots of folks weren’t tickled with Al Gore, or Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, or for that matter Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. But nobody ever says, “I voted for John Kerry, but I’ve never liked him”.

Why is that even an issue?

That’s the thing that sticks with me to this day, the idea that electing a president is about likability. Especially when one of the most common complaints among the “serious” class is that the election has lower turnout than American Idol and campaigns spend too much effort trying to make candidates out to be “regular people.”

136
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:47:26pm
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137
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:47:51pm

re: #131 Blind Frog Belly White

Why? And why do so many Dems feel like this is something that they should say?

I mean, lots of folks weren’t tickled with Al Gore, or Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, or for that matter Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. But nobody ever says, “I voted for John Kerry, but I’ve never liked him”.

Why is that even an issue?

I mean, clearly enthusiasm about your candidate means that the candidate is a good one, right? Just look at the …you know what, I can’t even sarcastically type out that Trump is doing a good job because that’s stupid bullshit.

138
nines09  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:48:17pm

Happy First Responders Who Got Fucked In The Neck Day. Or as it’s also known as….
Hello all. Just a drive by with a tume that jumped into my head after I heard another tune a day or so ago. Nice band from awhile back, had some success. This was always a good number for me while driving. Nice studio work.
Maybe it will jar some old songs in your head. I keep rediscovering bands I forgot all about. Like pulling out photo albums….snapshots….

I think I played this about 400 times while driving, sometimes on a loop. Hope you enjoy it.
I would suggest turning it up, but then you’ll be walking around saying “What?” like I do………

Veneer

139
sagehen  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:51:32pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Just for the record, I don’t think Jefferson Beauregard Sessions looks like a Keebler Elf.

I do think he looks like the Illinois Nazi in The Blues Brothers

.

140
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:51:49pm

re: #135 Targetpractice

That’s the thing that sticks with me to this day, the idea that electing a president is about likability. Especially when one of the most common complaints among the “serious” class is that the election has lower turnout than American Idol and campaigns spend too much effort trying to make candidates out to be “regular people.”

There’s that, but I feel like Clinton is unique among modern Presidential candidates in the sheer number of people who think it’s a matter of concern whether or not they ‘liked’ Hillary Clinton. In a low-turnout year, with the margin down to 77,784 votes out of 13,000,000 in 3 states, EVERYTHING MATTERED, so the constant barrage of “I’ll hold my nose and vote for her, but I don’t like her” from so many people likely had some effect on both depressing turnout and on driving people to vote for Stein or McMullin or Johnson, to avoid having to vote for Clinton.

I don’t see these same people complaining about any of Clinton’s policies, or her work ethic, or her qualifications, but they all feel that we need to know they didn’t ‘like’ her.

141
lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:58:05pm
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142
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:58:14pm

re: #1 The Vicious Babushka

I saw the headline and I thought this was in Vancouver BC and I’m like WTF.

Okay, so I’m really confused why this comment got three downdings?

143
Stanley Sea  Sep 11, 2017 • 1:58:48pm

re: #142 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Okay, so I’m really confused why this comment got three downdings?

error

144
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:00:52pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

There’s that, but I feel like Clinton is unique among modern Presidential candidates in the sheer number of people who think it’s a matter of concern whether or not they ‘liked’ Hillary Clinton. In a low-turnout year, with the margin down to 77,784 votes out of 13,000,000 in 3 states, EVERYTHING MATTERED, so the constant barrage of “I’ll hold my nose and vote for her, but I don’t like her” from so many people likely had some effect on both depressing turnout and on driving people to vote for Stein or McMullin or Johnson, to avoid having to vote for Clinton.

I don’t see these same people complaining about any of Clinton’s policies, or her work ethic, or her qualifications, but they all feel that we need to know they didn’t ‘like’ her.

So much of the problem is that our national dialogue has been twisted by decades of treating candidates as contestants in a popularity contest that we’ve become unable to disassociate the politician as a person from their candidacy for the job. People hear “I don’t like Hillary” and assume that means you hated her as a candidate, thus you voted for her for less than honorable reasons.

145
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:01:39pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

error

And now I’m hearing Nomad from the Star Trek TOS episode ‘The Changeling’ saying ‘Error! Error! Error!’, just before self-destructing.

146
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:02:58pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

FWIW, I never “liked” Obama either, but my respect for him grew greatly over the years.

All the years I’ve voted for Presidents, I can’t think of one of whom I can say I really liked, speaking of personality/style.

147
Amory Blaine  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:03:21pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

That font makes Bannon look like shit.

148
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:03:28pm

re: #144 Targetpractice

So much of the problem is that our national dialogue has been twisted by decades of treating candidates as contestants in a popularity contest that we’ve become unable to disassociate the politician as a person from their candidacy for the job. People hear “I don’t like Hillary” and assume that means you hated her as a candidate, thus you voted for her for less than honorable reasons.

I remember “Who would you rather have a beer with?”, but the funny thing is, IIRC, that first popped up with GW Bush, who doesn’t drink!

149
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:03:47pm

To me, voting is a duty of citizenship, just like jury duty.

I don’t like either.

150
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:04:23pm

re: #131 Blind Frog Belly White

Why? And why do so many Dems feel like this is something that they should say?

I mean, lots of folks weren’t tickled with Al Gore, or Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, or for that matter Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. But nobody ever says, “I voted for John Kerry, but I’ve never liked him”.

Why is that even an issue?

It’s a safe space.

I think people forget that the President is not the “be all end all” in America’s governmental system.

Add into they forget to seriously consider and vote for the actual worker bees…congress, and we have a complete mess.

They still think the president does everything so they need to be perfect in their eyes.

In a way people vote like they are looking for a dictator.

Media doesn’t help because they turn running for President into a hollywood-like popularity contest based on too much surface stuff and not about ability. It should never be that. Look what happens when you forget about actual political ability…you get a Trump.

President are humans. They can’t be perfect…it is impossible. So every Presidential choice is a compromise by nature.

There are compromises in Congress too. What should make it all work is the balance of the whole government taken seriously by the voters so that it balances out some reality.

We don’t take it serious, or there would be as many people voting in the congressional races next year as in the Presidential last year. And even then, not enough people voted in the presidential election.

151
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:05:08pm

re: #146 freetoken

FWIW, I never “liked” Obama either, but my respect for him grew greatly over the years.

All the years I’ve voted for Presidents, I can’t think of one of whom I can say I really liked, speaking of personality/style.

But you only felt it necessary/appropriate to say it about one.

I’m not singling you out, it’s just that I’ve never seen SO MANY PEOPLE feel it necessary to weigh in on whether they ‘liked’ a particular Presidential candidate.

152
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:05:38pm

re: #146 freetoken

FWIW, I never “liked” Obama either, but my respect for him grew greatly over the years.

All the years I’ve voted for Presidents, I can’t think of one of whom I can say I really liked, speaking of personality/style.

Think that’s part of the problem in recent decades. Once upon a time, we voted for a president not based upon whether or not he was a likable guy, but whether he was an effective one. That culminated in Nixon, whom much of the nation voted for not because he was a likable guy (he sure as fuck was not), but because he gave the impression of being better suited for the job than his challengers. Then we found out he was a crooked fuck and that resulted in this massive backlash against the idea of the “Washington insider” and the “professional politician.” Combine that with the rise of Reagan, a B-list celebrity turned politician, and suddenly the idea that we needed somebody who made us “feel good” became the driving philosophy.

153
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:05:48pm

re: #131 Blind Frog Belly White

Why? And why do so many Dems feel like this is something that they should say?

Because the Berners really like their Bernie.

And Trumpers adore Trump.

154
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:07:59pm

re: #152 Targetpractice

I don’t know.

I Like Ike, and all that.

Maybe we’re still adjusting to the age of television and then social media.

When I go back and read 19th American newspapers, when writing of candidates, almost never is a picture shown. Now back then newspapers were often full of polemics. But even when they weren’t, mostly there were a few hot-button issues that the election turned upon.

155
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:08:12pm
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156
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:08:38pm

Dukakis, Gore, Kerry - these are stiff, aloof, not very ‘likeable’ guys. But nobody tells you ‘I voted for Gore, but I’ve never liked him’.

157
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:08:58pm
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158
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:10:05pm

I don’t know whether it’s peculiar to Clinton, or has to do with her being a woman. I do know that there has not been any social price to pay on the Left for saying you don’t like her. Ever. Even going back to 1992.

159
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:10:57pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

There’s that, but I feel like Clinton is unique among modern Presidential candidates in the sheer number of people who think it’s a matter of concern whether or not they ‘liked’ Hillary Clinton. In a low-turnout year, with the margin down to 77,784 votes out of 13,000,000 in 3 states, EVERYTHING MATTERED, so the constant barrage of “I’ll hold my nose and vote for her, but I don’t like her” from so many people likely had some effect on both depressing turnout and on driving people to vote for Stein or McMullin or Johnson, to avoid having to vote for Clinton.

I don’t see these same people complaining about any of Clinton’s policies, or her work ethic, or her qualifications, but they all feel that we need to know they didn’t ‘like’ her.

Another thought about this topic. All that Clinton baggage colored many a voter this year. Many of them on the left. I think that adds to the “I voted for her reluctantly” thing too. And the Russians based all their dirty tricks on that baggage by reminding and adding to it all.

160
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:11:20pm

re: #158 Blind Frog Belly White

IIRC, when Bill Clinton first started to look like he was running, the fact the Clintons were southern Democrats really did turn off people in the more urban left/Democratic sphere.

161
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:12:13pm

re: #152 Targetpractice

Think that’s part of the problem in recent decades. Once upon a time, we voted for a president not based upon whether or not he was a likable guy, but whether he was an effective one. That culminated in Nixon, whom much of the nation voted for not because he was a likable guy (he sure as fuck was not), but because he gave the impression of being better suited for the job than his challengers. Then we found out he was a crooked fuck and that resulted in this massive backlash against the idea of the “Washington insider” and the “professional politician.” Combine that with the rise of Reagan, a B-list celebrity turned politician, and suddenly the idea that we needed somebody who made us “feel good” became the driving philosophy.

As TVs and then the internet became a major part of our lives, the role of the president changed. It used to be you might see the president on TV, or hear him on the radio, a couple times a year. You might read about him in the morning or evening paper, but for the most part, the president was a part of your daily life.

But with the morning news replacing the morning paper, and cable news needing to talk about something all the time, and then the internet needing to talk about ten things at all times, the president has, for better or worse, become a fairly constant presence in our lives. Where it used to be you almost had to go out of your way to find content on the president, now he is everywhere.

It’s actually rational for voters to decide that likability is an important quality, since you’re basically living with this person for the next four years.

162
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:14:17pm

re: #161 KGxvi

It’s actually rational for voters to decide that likability is an important quality, since you’re basically living with this person for the next four years.

That’s the biggest reason we ended up with Trump: Too many people didn’t like that black man in their house every day.

163
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:14:21pm

I don’t know what effect misogyny plays in the Hillary stuff. I can wave my hand and give a percentage, but that is all it would be.

Still, it seems hardly no one remembers the first female VP candidate. It’s easy to forget those who lose, but still, I think it would be a hallmark that would be remembered more.

164
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:14:36pm

re: #160 freetoken

IIRC, when Bill Clinton first started to look like he was running, the fact the Clintons were southern Democrats really did turn off people in the more urban left/Democratic sphere.

And yet people who loved Bill, who actually IS a Southern Democrat, hated Hillary, who everybody knew was from Illinois.

165
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:14:46pm

re: #161 KGxvi

It’s rational, but perhaps not optimal.

166
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:15:35pm

re: #163 freetoken

Every woman I know remembers Geraldine.

167
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:20:29pm

re: #156 Blind Frog Belly White

Dukakis, Gore, Kerry - these are stiff, aloof, not very ‘likeable’ guys. But nobody tells you ‘I voted for Gore, but I’ve never liked him’.

I’ve heard it among Republicans about Dole, McCain, and Romney, actually. Also think I heard it about GW Bush in 2004 as well.

Maybe it goes back to that old line that Democrats want to fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

It may also have to do with Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry running in pre- or proto-internet races, where you’d be more likely to talk to people face to face rather than over the internet.

168
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:22:11pm

re: #167 KGxvi

Romney in particular was a case where Evangelical/fundamentalist Christians complained about having to vote for him. Yet they did.

169
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:22:14pm

re: #160 freetoken

IIRC, when Bill Clinton first started to look like he was running, the fact the Clintons were southern Democrats really did turn off people in the more urban left/Democratic sphere.

Yeah, the people that hadn’t seen a Democratic President since Carter. Funny, he too was not from the urban areas. Maybe that is why they both won, they were not a part of the East Coast left that can too many times be all about purity and forget about electability.

170
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:23:22pm

re: #159 ObserverArt

Another thought about this topic. All that Clinton baggage colored many a voter this year. Many of them on the left. I think that adds to the “I voted for her reluctantly” thing too. And the Russians based all their dirty tricks on that baggage by reminding and adding to it all.

I don’t know how old you are, but I’m 59, and I very clearly remember the vitriol aimed at Hillary during the 1992 campaign. Not even a scandal yet, or at least none that directly involved her.

Vitriol aimed at her, and not a hell of a lot of defense from the Left.

You’d think she’d be the perfect person to elicit that sympathy - first First Lady to have built her own independent career, working mother, involved in Liberal causes for years. And yet for as long as I can remember hearing about her, it’s been almost a badge of honor on the Left to say “I’ve never liked her.”

I don’t get it.

171
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:24:27pm

re: #161 KGxvi

As TVs and then the internet became a major part of our lives, the role of the president changed. It used to be you might see the president on TV, or hear him on the radio, a couple times a year. You might read about him in the morning or evening paper, but for the most part, the president was a part of your daily life.

But with the morning news replacing the morning paper, and cable news needing to talk about something all the time, and then the internet needing to talk about ten things at all times, the president has, for better or worse, become a fairly constant presence in our lives. Where it used to be you almost had to go out of your way to find content on the president, now he is everywhere.

It’s actually rational for voters to decide that likability is an important quality, since you’re basically living with this person for the next four years.

I’d argued that it’s something we have chosen to rationalize while not truly being rational. Successive generations have been sold on style over substance, had JFK and Reagan presented to them as “successful” because they “made America feel good about itself,” while the men like LBJ or Nixon who got shit done are generally presented as having either fallen into the presidency or been elected due to the other side being an utter mess. And I could argue that it’s something that goes back to at least FDR, whether it was driving modified cars, wearing leg braces, or putting a door on the front of the Resolute Desk to hide the fact that he got around in a wheelchair.

Nixon’s presidency was a watershed in many ways, one of which was to enforce the stereotype that the only “good” president for America was one that people liked. JFK had been well-liked and people saw him as a “good” president. And I’ve lost count of the number of people who can’t think of much to say about Ford other than “He never should’ve pardoned Nixon.”

172
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:25:18pm

re: #170 Blind Frog Belly White

I don’t know how old you are, but I’m 59, and I very clearly remember the vitriol aimed at Hillary during the 1992 campaign. Not even a scandal yet, or at least none that directly involved her.

Vitriol aimed at her, and not a hell of a lot of defense from the Left.

You’d think she’d be the perfect person to elicit that sympathy - first First Lady to have built her own independent career, working mother, involved in Liberal causes for years. And yet for as long as I can remember hearing about her, it’s been almost a badge of honor on the Left to say “I’ve never liked her.”

I don’t get it.

Older by 4 years. Just had a birthday mid-August.

173
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:28:44pm

re: #169 ObserverArt

Yeah, the people that hadn’t seen a Democratic President since Carter. Funny, he too was not from the urban areas. Maybe that is why they both won, they were not a part of the East Coast left that can too many times be all about purity and forget about electability.

Bill could connect with people. It’s why he won in 1996. The same trait is why Obama won reelection as well.

The big problem for Hillary is she’s a problem solver, not a talker. If we lived in the universe of The Martian, she would have been elected president in 1992.

Edit: And I admire her for that, because that’s exactly how I am.

174
petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:28:51pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

Older by 4 years. Just had a birthday mid-August.

I’ll top that; older by another 5 years, if I read the thread aright. With Hillary, I think it goes back to her not baking cookies even if she was standing by her man, and only reluctantly taking his name. All of which were damn good reasons to like her … for some of us.

175
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:28:58pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

Older by 4 years. Just had a birthday mid-August.

Remember what it was like? In the Primaries, even.

176
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:29:40pm

re: #166 JordanRules

Every woman I know remembers Geraldine.

Then your female friends may be more socially conscious than many Americans.

177
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:29:54pm

Yeesh, I really poked a stick into the right wing hornet’s nest with that tweet. They’re swarming me like crazy on Twitter.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:30:35pm

re: #174 petesh

I’ll top that; older by another 5 years, if I read the thread aright. With Hillary, I think it goes back to her not baking cookies even if she was standing by her man, and only reluctantly taking his name. All of which were damn good reasons to like her … for some of us.

I know, right?

179
petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:30:38pm

re: #176 freetoken

Then your female friends may be more socially conscious feminine than many Americans.

fxd

180
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:31:06pm

re: #171 Targetpractice

I’d argued that it’s something we have chosen to rationalize while not truly being rational. Successive generations have been sold on style over substance, had JFK and Reagan presented to them as “successful” because they “made America feel good about itself,” while the men like LBJ or Nixon who got shit done are generally presented as having either fallen into the presidency or been elected due to the other side being an utter mess. And I could argue that it’s something that goes back to at least FDR, whether it was driving modified cars, wearing leg braces, or putting a door on the front of the Resolute Desk to hide the fact that he got around in a wheelchair.

Nixon’s presidency was a watershed in many ways, one of which was to enforce the stereotype that the only “good” president for America was one that people liked. JFK had been well-liked and people saw him as a “good” president. And I’ve lost count of the number of people who can’t think of much to say about Ford other than “He never should’ve pardoned Nixon.”

The president serves as Head of State, so part of the job is to make the country feel good about itself.

If I was being cynical or even Platoian about it, I’d argue that popular elections are designed to lead to things like likability being key. And that the entire idea of the electoral college as originally conceived was to put some space between the choice of president and the popularity of potential candidates.

But mostly, I agree with your points. Our way of thinking about the modern presidency (post Depression) is tied very much to the personalities of the men who have held the office more than anything.

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:31:53pm
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ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:33:06pm

re: #175 Blind Frog Belly White

Remember what it was like? In the Primaries, even.

Sure do. I think I’ve told the story here of how my oldest brother went completely bonkers about the Clinton’s Christmas of ‘92. I got up close and personal with it. Our relationship hasn’t been the same since.

183
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:36:03pm

re: #174 petesh

That was me! I was 16 when Bill ran in 92 and all of that greatly appealed to me. She inspired me to stay involved in politics.

184
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:36:22pm

re: #182 ObserverArt

Back in ‘92 I was still thinking a Republican was a good thing, and voted for GHWB, so the whole Democratic primary politics was pretty much not my interest.

Yet when Clinton won it was pretty clear that the social divisions in our country were being pushed by those who had an interest in making a lot of money off of hate.

This is where Limbaugh got his big push - as being Bill Clinton’s on-air arch-nemesis.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:37:59pm

re: #173 Belafon

Bill could connect with people. It’s why he won in 1996. The same trait is why Obama won reelection as well.

The big problem for Hillary is she’s a problem solver, not a talker. If we lived in the universe of The Martian, she would have been elected president in 1992.

I must be a weirdo. I want a President who solves problems. I want a President who stayed late in the library in college studying. I want a President who’ll stay up late in the West Wing working.

186
Bass Reeves  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:38:43pm

re: #173 Belafon

Objectively, this is not true. Hillary does not have the preacher speaking cadence of Bill or Obama when they are rolling, but she is in no way an inarticulate or inexpressive speaker. Every time she attempted to be more relaxed, she got dragged. Every time she tried to maintain discipline, she was told to fracking smile. She was SUPER popular on the Left as a First Lady, a Senator, and as SoS.

Literally. Targeted. Decades. Long. Smear. Campaign.

187
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:38:45pm

Here’s a good example of the effect in action: How many of us either know someone (or are that someone) who feels the need to assure others that they regret voting for Nixon?

188
allegro  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:39:52pm

re: #170 Blind Frog Belly White

I don’t know how old you are, but I’m 59, and I very clearly remember the vitriol aimed at Hillary during the 1992 campaign. Not even a scandal yet, or at least none that directly involved her.

Vitriol aimed at her, and not a hell of a lot of defense from the Left.

You’d think she’d be the perfect person to elicit that sympathy - first First Lady to have built her own independent career, working mother, involved in Liberal causes for years. And yet for as long as I can remember hearing about her, it’s been almost a badge of honor on the Left to say “I’ve never liked her.”

I don’t get it.

She didn’t fall in line the way she was supposed to. Instead of choosing White House crystal and china she took on the leadership of health care reform. She didn’t assume the submissive wife role and has never been forgiven. She’s a very deep threat to patriarchy.

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Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:41:19pm

re: #188 allegro

She didn’t fall in line the way she was supposed to. Instead of choosing White House crystal and china she took on the leadership of health care reform. She didn’t assume the submissive wife role and has never been forgiven. She’s a very deep threat to patriarchy.

It’s why Michelle drew much the same negativity during her years in the White House, daring to get out there and be a big voice in politics rather than sitting at home and tending the house while hubby was leading the nation.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:41:55pm
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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:43:03pm

re: #188 allegro

She didn’t fall in line the way she was supposed to. Instead of choosing White House crystal and china she took on the leadership of health care reform. She didn’t assume the submissive wife role and has never been forgiven. She’s a very deep threat to patriarchy.

Even now we’re still seeing a lot of the internalized misogyny - some of it from people who probably think they don’t have any to deal with - that her campaign made a lot clearer.

It’s been there, lurking, so my hope is the exposure will help.

192
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:43:29pm

re: #190 Charles Johnson

Trumpers refuse to see the damage that Trump is doing.

Trumpers rejoice at throwing out 800k dreamers. That is why they voted for Trump.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:44:54pm

re: #189 Targetpractice

It’s why Michelle drew much the same negativity during her years in the White House, daring to get out there and be a big voice in politics rather than sitting at home and tending the house while hubby was leading the nation.

Yet I feel like in many ways, Michelle was a much more traditional First Lady, and that the causes she took up were pretty much uncontroversial, like ‘We should eat better” or “Children learn important lessons from gardening”.

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ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:44:55pm

re: #190 Charles Johnson

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I don’t think you should feel the need to clarify your initial comment. The people with brains know what you meant right off.

Those that were offended wanted to be so and they already have you labeled. Nothing you say is going to change it.

In other words…fuck ‘em!

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Le Coquí Résistance  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:46:29pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

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/headdesk

You just confirmed the veracity of the transcripts!

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:46:41pm

re: #192 freetoken

Trumpers refuse to see the damage that Trump is doing.

Trumpers rejoice at throwing out 800k dreamers. That is why they voted for Trump.

But don’t call them racist!

197
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:47:28pm

Would not want to make you uncomfortable Sam Seaborn.

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:47:58pm
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freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:48:01pm

Remember, “just a little rain”:

10,000 may need evacuation from ravaged Florida Keys

Things were looking so dire that an estimated 10,000 people who rode out the storm in the Keys may require evacuation, the US Department of Defense said. The island chain is home to about 79,000 people.

200
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:48:39pm

re: #188 allegro

She didn’t fall in line the way she was supposed to. Instead of choosing White House crystal and china she took on the leadership of health care reform. She didn’t assume the submissive wife role and has never been forgiven. She’s a very deep threat to patriarchy.

Good comment!

And she goes against so much of both conservative and religious thinking. That is double trouble.

By the way…how are things for you and others in Houston and lower southeast Texas? People seemed to have already moved on to the newest disaster. I hope you and some of the others in the area keep us up to date on the reality of it all.

201
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:48:53pm
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In the small preview image I thought this was a photograph of a cat sitting on a glass table from underneath.

In my defense I couldn’t see the suit jacket.

202
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:49:46pm

re: #201 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

In the small preview image I thought this was a photograph of a cat sitting on a glass table from underneath.

In my defense I couldn’t see the suit jacket.

It’s a horse’s ass.

203
wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:51:32pm

re: #188 allegro

She didn’t fall in line the way she was supposed to. Instead of choosing White House crystal and china she took on the leadership of health care reform. She didn’t assume the submissive wife role and has never been forgiven. She’s a very deep threat to patriarchy.

Not just patriarchy, she, and a strong Democratic Party, are a threat to oligarchy, which is another reason the Russians went after her, and them.

204
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:52:27pm

Yep, now I’ve got lots of high-follower right wingers calling out the hordes to pile on. Wheee!

205
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:53:48pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

Yep, now I’ve got lots of high-follower right wingers calling out the hordes to pile on. Wheee!

UNLEASH THE ARMY OF THE (BRAIN-)DEAD!

206
wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:54:17pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

Yep, now I’ve got lots of high-follower right wingers calling out the hordes to pile on. Wheee!

You poked the lists.

207
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:54:22pm

re: #201 klys (maker of Silmarils)

When I think of Trump’s ridiculous hairdo, I think of the scene in “American Hustlers”, where Christian Bale spends 5 minutes creating a completely unconvincing combover.

208
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:54:50pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

Yep, now I’ve got lots of high-follower right wingers calling out the hordes to pile on. Wheee!

Ill-informed hate is all they have. Of course they run with it.

209
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:55:27pm

re: #202 I Would Prefer Not To

It’s a horse’s ass.

It’s not every day you see a horse with two rear ends.

210
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:56:47pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

Yep, now I’ve got lots of high-follower right wingers calling out the hordes to pile on. Wheee!

The body count from tr*mp’s presidency* is smaller than that of 9/11. For now.

211
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:57:17pm

re: #193 Blind Frog Belly White

Yet I feel like in many ways, Michelle was a much more traditional First Lady, and that the causes she took up were pretty much uncontroversial, like ‘We should eat better” or “Children learn important lessons from gardening”.

Uh, she had a “problem” Hillary didn’t have.

She is a Black Woman.

She got enough shit for just being herself. Everything she said and did was criticized.

She is smart enough to realize no one was going to pay attention to her wanting to do anything political as First Lady. They had enough problem taking her husband serious as our First Black President. I don’t think she had a desire to be a glutton for punishment.

I think she is happy knowing she did what she did and both her and Barrack got out in decent shape. Maybe we see a bit more out of her in the future.

But then again I would not be surprise if she stayed out of the public eye due to all the crap she had to put up with from America.

212
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:57:25pm

re: #209 Targetpractice

It’s not every day you see a horse with two rear ends.

Well, it is lately.

213
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:57:36pm

re: #142 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Okay, so I’m really confused why this comment got three downdings?

Oh did it? I don’t check my ding score.

214
nines09  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:57:58pm
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makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:58:59pm

My wife just saw a story on Facebook where Roger Stone says Kelly may be having Trump drugged.

Cray never sleeps.

216
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:59:08pm

I laughed. (Linked article has an autoplay video.)

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:59:47pm

re: #210 EPR-radar

The body count from tr*mp’s presidency* is smaller than that of 9/11. For now.

And 16 years after he’s gone, the losses will be just as hard to identify.

218
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 2:59:55pm

re: #213 The Vicious Babushka

Oh did it? I don’t check my ding score.

I saw one of them go by in Spy and checked and was then really confused. That was all. :)

219
KGxvi  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:02:37pm

re: #215 makeitstop

My wife just saw a story on Facebook where Roger Stone says Kelly may be having Trump drugged.

Cray never sleeps.

There’s a “best interests of the nation” joke in there somewhere, but I haven’t had an afternoon coffee, so I’m not sure exactly where it is.

220
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:03:17pm
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I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:05:10pm

re: #214 nines09

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Chairway to heaven?

222
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:05:44pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

To be fair, people didn’t scream in terror when Trump was…

…wait, nevermind.

223
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:05:45pm

re: #220 klys (maker of Silmarils)

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I was expecting a cat. That was pretty epic, though.

224
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:07:40pm
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ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:08:32pm

Living in Columbus Ohio Buckeye Country is always entertaining when the big college team gets clobbered in a football game and they are supposed to be highly ranked.

It reminds me so much of the election last November.

It was a game people!

No, no…not the election. Even if some treated it like a game.

226
Dragonomics  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:09:04pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

I think he means it takes a lot of balls to speak the truth.

227
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:09:07pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

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Tell ‘em you already are.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:09:46pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

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Aww, look, you made a friend. Maybe he’ll show up at an address he thinks is yours and pretend to stalk you.

229
lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:11:10pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

Nazis say what?

Yeah, reported and blocked.

230
electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:14:00pm

re: #228 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Aww, look, you made a friend. Maybe he’ll show up at an address he thinks is yours and pretend to stalk you.

He lives in Austin. Time to make white supremacists afraid again

231
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:14:13pm
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allegro  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:15:15pm

re: #200 ObserverArt

Good comment!

And she goes against so much of both conservative and religious thinking. That is double trouble.

By the way…how are things for you and others in Houston and lower southeast Texas? People seemed to have already moved on to the newest disaster. I hope you and some of the others in the area keep us up to date on the reality of it all.

I’m not a good Houston ground reporter on this issue. My reality, as that of my friends and acquaintances here, is back to normal for the most part. Since I’m retired I don’t travel the city to get any kind of overview.

233
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:15:39pm
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I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:15:54pm

re: #231 Charles Johnson

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IF GOD INVENTED AIDS THAN GOD IS AN ASSHOLE.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:16:59pm

re: #234 I Would Prefer Not To

IF GOD INVENTED AIDS THAN GOD IS AN ASSHOLE.

The god they believe in is an asshole. I’m glad I don’t believe in it.

236
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:17:56pm

BTW, Charles, full disclosure - Mrs. Fish’s response to your tweet was, “Well, Donald Trump hasn’t killed anybody.” To which I replied, “I’m sure he probably has, and when all is said and done, it’ll be a lot more.”

237
makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:19:01pm

My wife and I are completely mystified. Can some one explain this, please?

Old motorcycle part-infused gin? Srsly?

Every time I make a find of rare bikes, I wonder how to use every single part - because they deserve to be preserved. That is where the idea for ‘The Archaeologist’ emerged: preserving the spirit of the old machines in an actual spirit and make it possible to experience the taste. Every detail of the packaging is a meticulous rendition of the packaging technology of the era in which the contained bike parts have originally been crafted.

238
MsJ  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:21:16pm

re: #231 Charles Johnson

I know I’m going to regret this but it just feels so good.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:21:47pm

Florida Sister* and family rode out Irma in a nearby Evac shelter. My nephew** helped out with all the animals - which is fair, since 4 of them were theirs! Probably kept his Husky from spending all night howling.

They got out this afternoon and were pleased to find their house intact, not flooded, and although they lost one tree and some branches off their live oak, mostly they were pretty fortunate. Animals are all happy to be home. Sister exhausted.

*Now that she’s gone through a hurricane, I’ll stop referring to her as ‘New Jersey Florida Sister’

** Saturday night, nephew posted on FB, “Good night FL. Please don’t kill me in my sleep”

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:23:19pm

re: #236 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

BTW, Charles, full disclosure - Mrs. Fish’s response to your tweet was, “Well, Donald Trump hasn’t killed anybody.” To which I replied, “I’m sure he probably has, and when all is said and done, it’ll be a lot more.”

It may not seem analogous, but if you look at the maternal death rate in Texas, that’s caused by politics of the Trump sort, and [separate issue] there are many who could have come here and lived, but instead they went home to Guatemala or Honduras, and died. That’s why my #217.

241
wheat-dogg  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:23:56pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

Another RWNJ who doesn’t know the English language too well

242
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:25:07pm

Donald Trump and his f#$#@$!@ fans are doing their best to kill Democracy. Plus, when you screw up the environment, people die. The body count is delayed, but it will be greater.

I’m going home

243
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:26:13pm

re: #224 Charles Johnson

Lotta crazy to report there .

244
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:26:15pm

re: #233 Charles Johnson

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lawhawk  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:29:37pm

re: #236 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Technically, he has killed people via the DoD. Whether it was the botched raid or dumping a MOAB in Afghanistan, there are dead people as a result of Trump decisions. More people will die as a result of GOP efforts to deprive people of health coverage.

Nothing nearly as flashy as gunning someone down in broad daylight on 5th Avenue, but the victims are still just as dead.

246
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:32:16pm

re: #244 klys (maker of Silmarils)

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:34:03pm
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Big Beautiful Door  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:35:45pm

re: #236 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

BTW, Charles, full disclosure - Mrs. Fish’s response to your tweet was, “Well, Donald Trump hasn’t killed anybody.” To which I replied, “I’m sure he probably has, and when all is said and done, it’ll be a lot more.”

Under Trump, the Pentagon has lower standards for avoiding civilian casualties to bomb ISIS, so he certainly has killed people.

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:36:12pm

re: #233 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Here’s his LinkedIn if anyone wants to report his tweet to his employer.

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petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:38:32pm

re: #247 Charles Johnson

I fully support your one-person campaign to identify all the trolls on Twitter, and with any luck have them purged.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:40:11pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:43:25pm
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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:43:47pm

re: #252 Charles Johnson

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When you’ve lost the Moonies…

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unproven innocence  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:43:55pm

re: #250 petesh

I fully support your one-person campaign to identify all the trolls on Twitter, and with any luck have them purged.

But it is problematic that so many of the trolls on Twitter and other social media are not even people, but mostly-automated bots. Those can be replaced very quickly.

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Big Beautiful Door  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:44:04pm

re: #246 Blind Frog Belly White

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rDq8j1YNRghSCARkLkscTqMulEB/ogxQ3WjoKyCT14mKAHX/qnOPF+XLZcWz/3fi6bY3/G8YJwXau7mUUV5VC1VU6u6j/qU+I+TpLdwUNbyygPL3niU9c8IuDQa1GbEzUQ43c2WZ97D5ZHyrvBvHCE7GKy4kadLyNEXv9ioSi6jl4s0mclCja0G2n87XLJID9kVp1XSbnb5jTnbVYtM0HIbIpViPFj0IUgkYDpYNbPNbTubOmRuYJNbPVbnpRrQwQvaaEoc3a0AK13u7RBc05s/UmHJJbz2tizB3999sy9L0XKkCj58hZ7ppRImYI7deatEI6f5nuvWfBZx7+BKTP3YHyMdhqSn46TgqSZSZG9ipf1DwBCNYEwgzHOiPTkdRjfz5RfcFzdOoVhMsUsmVcbrc/aPhHkyphRNvNUpUEcCQ/SB3CqJ1JcNwsIFJW1Ejul3j5Ux1rqLyMH4iML2L3w==

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b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:45:59pm

re: #252 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Do the Moonies still own them?

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freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:50:30pm

re: #252 Charles Johnson

Probably because you’ve been pretty successful in taking down the right-wing hate faux-intellectuals like RSN, etc., any way they can to smear you is now a play for them.

You’re getting a small taste of what Hillary has had to endure all these years.

The more effective you are at shining light under the bed, the more you’ll be a target.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:51:17pm

re: #257 freetoken

Probably because you’ve been pretty successful in taking down the right-wing hate faux-intellectuals like RSN, etc., any way they can to smear you is now a play for them.

You’re getting a small taste of what Hillary has had to endure all these years.

The more effective you are at shining light under the bed, the more you’ll be a target.

Charles is a white American male. There’s only so much hate they can give him. Now if he were a woman, or God forbid, black… we might be without a host.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:53:03pm

Welp.

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petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:53:24pm

The anniversary has a particular, unusual meaning for me. I was in France, where my marriage was falling apart, despite what I wanted and what I thought was best for all involved, all of whom were having a hard time. My stepson called me over to the TV — it was afternoon there — and I watched the Towers in French, through a debilitating fog of personal grief that isolated me.

When I got back to the U.S., I had to make a conscious effort to make allowances for the feelings other Americans had, which I just could not share. I kept quiet; hell, I was depressed. My detachment made it simple for me to oppose the Afghanistan attack while also realizing there was no way we (my anti-war friends and I) were going to stop it. It seemed important, however, to demonstrate, and I am glad I did.

After 16 years, I am healed (and have been in a relationship for 10 years). The country? I wonder.

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Big Beautiful Door  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:58:21pm

re: #260 petesh

The anniversary has a particular, unusual meaning for me. I was in France, where my marriage was falling apart, despite what I wanted and what I thought was best for all involved, all of whom were having a hard time. My stepson called me over to the TV — it was afternoon there — and I watched the Towers in French, through a debilitating fog of personal grief that isolated me.

When I got back to the U.S., I had to make a conscious effort to make allowances for the feelings other Americans had, which I just could not share. I kept quiet; hell, I was depressed. My detachment made it simple for me to oppose the Afghanistan attack while also realizing there was no way we (my anti-war friends and I) were going to stop it. It seemed important, however, to demonstrate, and I am glad I did.

After 16 years, I am healed (and have been in a relationship for 10 years). The country? I wonder.

And we are still fighting in Afghanistan. However, I feel pretty certain that even if Al Gore or any other plausible person had been President in 2001 besides George Bush, we would’ve assisted the rebels in removing the Taliban who were harboring Al Qaeda.

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 3:59:26pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

It may not seem analogous, but if you look at the maternal death rate in Texas, that’s caused by politics of the Trump sort, and [separate issue] there are many who could have come here and lived, but instead they went home to Guatemala or Honduras, and died. That’s why my #217.

How does one do the thing where, for instance, in the last line I quoted above, the 217 would appear as a link to that comment? Do you just hit ‘reply’ and delete the unneeded parts?

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:00:08pm

re: #262 wrenchwench

How does one do the thing where, for instance, in the last line I quoted above, the 217 would appear as a link to that comment? Do you just hit ‘reply’ and delete the unneeded parts?

That’s what I always do.

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freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:01:10pm

re: #261 Big Beautiful Door

And we are still fighting in Afghanistan. However, I feel pretty certain that even if Al Gore or any other plausible person had been President in 2001 besides George Bush, we would’ve assisted the rebels in removing the Taliban who were harboring Al Qaeda.

The topic of this post is about the guy trying to run down protestors with his truck.

This comes from an angry person. And one who is not capable of resolving their anger by other means.

That is what happens to groups too. As you note, regardless of who won the 2000 election, the US was going to get revenge on the government that harboured AQ.

Inevitably we’ve learned that we’re not going to be able to remake Afghanistan into our image, that terrorism will continue regardless of how many hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on wars.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:01:14pm
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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:02:01pm

re: #263 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

That’s what I always do.

If it’s good enough for the fish, it’s good enough for me. Even if he’s kind of a raven.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:02:28pm

re: #266 wrenchwench

If it’s good enough for the fish, it’s good enough for me. Even if he’s kind of a raven.

SWIM, SWIM, HUNGRY… NEVERMORE…

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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:05:04pm
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petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:09:20pm

re: #261 Big Beautiful Door

And we are still fighting in Afghanistan. However, I feel pretty certain that even if Al Gore or any other plausible person had been President in 2001 besides George Bush, we would’ve assisted the rebels in removing the Taliban who were harboring Al Qaeda.

If Gore had been President, he might have taken out Bin Laden ahead of time; Bill Clinton did warn Bush. But more to the point, I firmly believe that diplomacy would have worked; the Taliban were then well on the way to re-entering the regional community and could have been negotiated into giving him up. But of course that would not have been as emotionally satisfying as launching missiles … so you may be right.

About the length and failure of the war, however, I was absolutely correct.

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Big Beautiful Door  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:14:23pm

re: #269 petesh

If Gore had been President, he might have taken out Bin Laden ahead of time; Bill Clinton did warn Bush. But more to the point, I firmly believe that diplomacy would have worked; the Taliban were then well on the way to re-entering the regional community and could have been negotiated into giving him up. But of course that would not have been as emotionally satisfying as launching missiles … so you may be right.

About the length and failure of the war, however, I was absolutely correct.

Maybe, I have my doubts that Gore could’ve taken out Bin Laden in the first nine months of his Administration. And even if he had, the operatives already in the country would’ve proceed with the 9/11 attacks anyway. I would hope that an Al Gore Administration would’ve focused on resolving the Afghan situation and getting out as soon as practicable rather than getting distracted by a totally unnecessary Iraq War.

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freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:16:53pm

Oh look, a big sea spider:

The laser pointers are 10cm across, so those legs are over 8” long.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:18:34pm

re: #268 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

That makes me so sad.
I spent a week camping and doing ham radio stuff at the national forest on St. John, back around 1990.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:23:43pm
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Ace Rothstein  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:24:00pm

re: #186 Bass Reeves

A 25-year conservative hard-on. Sorry for the visual.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:25:02pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:26:28pm

re: #274 Ace Rothstein

A 25-year conservative hard-on. Sorry for the visual.

If your conservative hard on last more than 4 years, seek medical help.

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scottslemmons  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:27:46pm

re: #259 JordanRules

Welp.

[Embedded content]

I was gonna post that bit.

It’s kinda fun to watch Woods get his career destroyed by Twitter.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:27:52pm
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petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:28:03pm

re: #270 Big Beautiful Door

Maybe, I have my doubts that Gore could’ve taken out Bin Laden in the first nine months of his Administration.

Reasonable doubts, but don’t forget the CIA report that Bush ignored.

And even if he had, the operatives already in the country would’ve proceed with the 9/11 attacks anyway.

Maybe so, maybe not; speculative of course, either way.

I would hope that an Al Gore Administration would’ve focused on resolving the Afghan situation and getting out as soon as practicable rather than getting distracted by a totally unnecessary Iraq War.

Yes, I think we can be sure that Gore would not have attacked Iraq! And it’s almost certain he’d have done a better job in Afghanistan, both getting in (if he did) and certainly in getting out.

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:29:51pm

re: #260 petesh

After 16 years, I am healed (and have been in a relationship for 10 years). The country? I wonder.

OK, it’s been long enough for me to tell my particular 9/11 story. Maybe not long enough to do it coherently, or with grammatical correctness, but here goes.

I was a Schwinn dealer. They had their day in bankruptcy court that day. In Denver, because they had relocated there after their first bankruptcy (in 1993). I was also a GT dealer, because how convenient! [how stupid, as it turned out] same owners! After the towers were hit, court recessed (because it was a federal building, and could have been targeted, they thought) reconvened, and finished the deed. The business was sold, and the bikes went to WalMart, Target, all the big box stores, so I had to drop them. My business was 2 years old at the time. It almost did me in. I’ve been through a few brands since then, and now my shop is old enough to vote. When that ‘property owners’ thing happens.

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b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:31:41pm

FREE SPEECH!!

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:32:14pm

re: #280 wrenchwench

When that ‘property owners’ thing happens.

I’m renting, but I own the business. We’ll [hopefully never] see how that plays out.

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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:34:29pm

re: #272 Backwoods_Sleuth

That makes me so sad.
I spent a week camping and doing ham radio stuff at the national forest on St. John, back around 1990.

We were there in February.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:37:34pm

Honestly terrifying.

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:38:55pm

re: #280 wrenchwench

P. S.

Condolences to those more personally affected.

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nines09  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:39:04pm

re: #221 I Would Prefer Not To

That which came before. A favorite, or not so, seat. No longer seated. Or…ART. Imagine a person seated. Followed by another person seated. Then that seat being bought, borrowed, given or found. Or just chucked. With another person or 15 seated.
Some liked it. Some not.
Then the act of making art for the sake of art, in between two buildings. An empty space. How. Why. No matter. Seating. See?
I find it brilliant, since in my sphere, chairs mean so much in so many levels.
Myself, I have a chair from at least the 40’s. I pix it sometimes. no? Dragged from rental to rental to city to town. Why? Memory. I would gladly give up my old memory laden chair to that. Absolutely.
Man. I ramble…

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:39:54pm
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Romantic Heretic  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:40:43pm

re: #220 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I am not a number!

That was what that GIF made me think of.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:40:44pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:41:41pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:41:52pm
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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:42:02pm

re: #289 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Translation: Best tweet, ever!

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klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:42:40pm

There is thunder outside and I am so many levels of deliriously happy right now.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:43:35pm

today’s shiitake harvest looks a bit rough…they were clustered around logs were meeting at corners.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:46:01pm

qCxOER33a2amK6Bfqor3CSjQgWnEOYsOSCcEDOQV+Pj3snFlmyQQiNMtERiRrMbHoRbMubWfZIW6SRjRvcm2/MLTMslS3UWhNNYrhQimaXh9o07yJPWWgsPGC5cCk1ifVG+cPuht2imkt2Y51tzP5LGhx32OcpLb+OCG/rId37y2TuxlOBSiAVkjCacQHELu/w1/cdlPSYI=

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:46:05pm

re: #287 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Steve88
Not real subtle, is he?

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:47:28pm

Now starting to get people using the contact form to tell me what an un-American asshole I am, and that I should jump in front of a train.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:48:08pm
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scottslemmons  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:48:15pm

re: #295 Charles Johnson

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+teZ4jcBIEIQweOGZVdWd0ZXbK/yoDOEXR2LsSKpF3ZVTWY9f2jS6L7NwjmvHsOVXAB/JHcKGQR82N0TQPuJF6S9rJaLShdBN9yJcE7PeuK1KkTs+hFGu0kMYWZqRu9HCLaecmZq2khcTR+eG7OtHfceXRtKfvjOQsZ/Iomz67VON4duwTDh3OLm0VCt49WvlKfhyCCqhooWPC98uJ5sQcNyDnfQn2qv

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GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:48:17pm
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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:49:01pm

re: #297 Charles Johnson

Now starting to get people using the contact form to tell me what an un-American asshole I am, and that I should jump in front of a train.

A lot of people are still insane from 9/11, and can’t understand that wishing death on politically incorrect people makes them the monsters.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:49:19pm

re: #296 Backwoods_Sleuth

Right. And has the nerve to be clutching his white supremacist pearls. Pffft.

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plansbandc  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:51:19pm

I think that Trump will prove to be far more disastrous than 9/11. We had a moment after the shock and horror of 9/11 when we had a last chance at country wide unity. But, that was killed by the neocons.

Trump would not be “President” had 9/11 not happened though. So perhaps, 9/11 as the beginning of the end of our democracy is, indeed more catastrophic.

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EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:52:16pm

re: #289 Charles Johnson

9/11 was a horrible attack on the US by radical Islamist terrorists.

The tr*mp election showed that way too many US voters are perfectly OK with having the US president be a dangerous malignant narcissist, for no better reason than their own resentments.

It’s obvious which is the two is the greater disaster, especially when it is noted that tr*mp’s election is merely a symptom of larger problems.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:53:56pm

re: #290 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

A guy with a coded Nazi symbol says you’re ‘an unhinged domestic terrorist’?

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:54:43pm

re: #305 Blind Frog Belly White

A guy with a coded Nazi symbol says you’re ‘an unhinged domestic terrorist’?

Nazis are the establishment now.

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wrenchwench  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:55:41pm

re: #297 Charles Johnson

Now starting to get people using the contact form to tell me what an un-American asshole I am, and that I should jump in front of a train.

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Yours is in there. Pay no attention to the haters.

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Hecuba's daughter  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:55:56pm

re: #291 Charles Johnson

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
May God Forever Bless the United States of America. #NeverForget911
1:35 PM - Sep 11, 2017
7,814 7,814 Replies 19,837 19,837 Retweets 67,599 67,599 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
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Follow
Jesse Lehrich ✔ @JesseLehrich
unreal. now a ‘tribute video’ that’s entirely shots of Trump.

no first responders, no memorial, nothing.

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…
1:42 PM - Sep 11, 2017
158 158 Replies 887 887 Retweets 939 939 likes

Unbelievable. Everything has to be about him because, of course, it does.

And at least 34% of the American public is fine with that.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:57:11pm

Amazing how many of the Trump fans blurting insults at me have adopted his “covfefe” typo for their usernames. Are they trying to look like complete dumbasses?

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EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:58:45pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Amazing how many of the Trump fans blurting insults at me have adopted his “covfefe” typo for their usernames. Are they trying to look like complete dumbasses?

Yes. Aggressive stupidity is a tribal marker for tr*mpists.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 4:58:59pm

re: #306 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Which illustrates why Charles is right.

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JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:00:33pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Yes indeedy. They happily call themselves deplorable too.

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teleskiguy  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:00:35pm

Fuckface Von Clownstick’s election will be worse than 9/11 in terms of body count/lives ruined etc. 9/11 was visceral, in your face violence. The violence that’s being inflicted by FVC is existential and largely unseen. You’re not going to see poor women die in childbirth by the thousands on television over the course of FVC’s administration. You’re not going to see on television the large uptick in cancer deaths at towns where industry is being deregulated and the environment is destroyed. There will be violence on a grand scale that will kill many thousands, and it won’t be broadcast on television.

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freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:01:29pm

Oh look, a mindless orange blob wildly waving its appendages:

They came across one of these a couple of months ago, which was in better shape than this one.

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Stanley Sea  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:01:30pm

Keep seeing Jax on the news & haven’t heard from Mr. Dirt Dart…..

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Hecuba's daughter  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:02:17pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Amazing how many of the Trump fans blurting insults at me have adopted his “covfefe” typo for their usernames. Are they trying to look like complete dumbasses?

It’s certainly popular among those mocking him. His supporters apparently feel he is infallible.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:07:57pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Amazing how many of the Trump fans blurting insults at me have adopted his “covfefe” typo for their usernames. Are they trying to look like complete dumbasses?

The idea is to try to subvert the haters. Unfortunately, when your god-emperor is a complete and utter dumbfuck, “subverting the haters” just makes you look like a drooling vegetable.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:08:31pm

re: #309 Charles Johnson

Amazing how many of the Trump fans blurting insults at me have adopted his “covfefe” typo for their usernames. Are they trying to look like complete dumbasses?

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:09:30pm
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makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:09:34pm

Malcolm Nance, taking no shit today.

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William Lewis  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:09:37pm

re: #289 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Sorry Kurt, but history will barely remember 9/11. Trump will be seen as the end of the 1st Republic, at best, when the 2nd Republic is 200 years old. But only if he’s prevented from starting the nuclear war he wants.

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petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:11:05pm

If Trump is not removed and continues on his present path, he will:
• destroy what may be the world’s last chance at avoiding climate catastrophe
• or cut out the middle disaster by launching a nuclear war
• ruin the American economy through a combination of protectionism and inequality
• permanently shred the landscape by plundering in the national parks
• finally kill the concept of the melting pot
• and probably demolish our electoral system

Despite the millions of people killed and displaced by the reaction to 9/11, Charles has a point.

I think I just scared myself.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:11:22pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:12:09pm

Oops, didn’t mean to post that twice, must have missed a copy/paste.

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Eventual Carrion  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:12:27pm

re: #268 klys (maker of Silmarils)

[Embedded content]

Damn

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electrotek  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:12:29pm

My homie keepin’ it real as always:

Facebook Post

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EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:12:59pm

Thunder in the SF bay area now. Some rain to go with it would be nice.

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goddamnedfrank  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:14:04pm

re: #310 EPR-radar

Yes. Aggressive stupidity is a tribal marker for tr*mpists.

This is exactly it. They’re a claque of deliberately obtuse dedicated trolls.

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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:15:11pm
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Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:15:57pm

Look out, we have a random capitalizer here.

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Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:17:23pm

re: #321 William Lewis

Sorry Kurt, but history will barely remember 9/11. Trump will be seen as the end of the 1st Republic, at best, when the 2nd Republic is 200 years old. But only if he’s prevented from starting the nuclear war he wants.

I’m going to disagree. 9/11 was, is, and will be a watershed moment in American history. It took the hyper-patriotism of the wingnut right and cranked it up to potato. It should come as no surprise that Charles’s break with the right came post-9/11, after everyone went completely dipshit stupid with Islamophobia and God-fearing, righteous murderphilia.

332
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:17:43pm

re: #328 goddamnedfrank

This is exactly it. They’re a claque of deliberately obtuse dedicated trolls.

tr*mpism is the perfection of know-nothingism — the idea that one person’s irrational/clueless opinion is as valid as an expert’s knowledge in their field of expertise.

Democratic self-rule is obviously doomed to fail if this attitude becomes sufficiently popular.

333
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:19:38pm

re: #327 EPR-radar

Thunder in the SF bay area now. Some rain to go with it would be nice.

I’ve had some! It’s wonderful! Today is an excellent weather day! I can pretend I don’t live in CA for about 5 minutes!

I’m so excited!

(Back to banging my head into understanding all the fun taxes for self-employment.)

334
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:20:09pm

re: #315 Stanley Sea

Keep seeing Jax on the news & haven’t heard from Mr. Dirt Dart…..

I’ve not heard from my sister in Ormond Beach since about midnight last night.
I’m hoping it’s just because the cell towers are down.

335
Hecuba's daughter  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:21:04pm

re: #332 EPR-radar

tr*mpism is the perfection of know-nothingism — the idea that one person’s irrational/clueless opinion is as valid as an expert’s knowledge in their field of expertise.

Democratic self-rule is obviously doomed to fail if this attitude becomes sufficiently popular.

This preceded Trump — the whole GOP has been attacking science and education for years. And certain anti-vaxxers on the left are a similar problem.

336
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:21:34pm

re: #331 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

I’m going to disagree. 9/11 was, is, and will be a watershed moment in American history. It took the hyper-patriotism of the wingnut right and cranked it up to potato. It should come as no surprise that Charles’s break with the right came post-9/11, after everyone went completely dipshit stupid with Islamophobia and God-fearing, righteous murderphilia.

I agree. From a different point of view, 9/11 disposed of the dangerous illusion that the US could intervene as it pleased everywhere else in the world without any possibility of blowback/negative consequences.

337
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:22:58pm

re: #336 EPR-radar

Given how the Lost Cause crowd still can’t honestly reckon with the War of the Rebellion, I suspect many Americans never really will learn from 9/11 and the never-ending-war that has ensued.

338
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:23:27pm

re: #335 Hecuba’s daughter

This preceded Trump — the whole GOP has been attacking science and education for years. And certain anti-vaxxers on the left are a similar problem.

Absolutely. The GOP has been leading up to tr*mp and his morons for years. I’m being somewhat optimistic here in assuming tr*mp et al is the perfection of this trend, because I really don’t want to imagine a politician and personality cult significantly stupider than the cult of tr*mp.

339
teleskiguy  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:23:28pm

Just down the road. A bunch of road hogs has closed the interstate.

ReplyReply w/ QuoteImage
340
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:24:38pm
ReplyReply w/ QuoteImage
341
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:25:12pm

re: #262 wrenchwench

How does one do the thing where, for instance, in the last line I quoted above, the 217 would appear as a link to that comment? Do you just hit ‘reply’ and delete the unneeded parts?

That is why preview is so important. You can see if what you cut out was not enough or too much.

342
Dave In Austin  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:25:15pm
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343
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:25:46pm

re: #333 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’ve had some! It’s wonderful! Today is an excellent weather day! I can pretend I don’t live in CA for about 5 minutes!

I’m so excited!

(Back to banging my head into understanding all the fun taxes for self-employment.)

Ugh on the self-employment taxes. Yay for the weather. Some of these peals of thunder actually sound impressive, rather than the usual CA pattern of “Is it thunder or a big rig on the nearest highway?”

344
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:26:40pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Not to mention how autocrats from the Philippines to Myanmar have been emboldened to kill and imprison because they now know the US will not lead an effort to stop them.

345
Decatur Deb  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:27:33pm

re: #289 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Lurking from a bad connection in Birmingham.

Been watching people’s 9/11 memories. Mine supports Charles’ statement entirely. I was in an Army HQ cubefarm when the first plane hit, dismissed it as probably a tourist light plane or traffic copter. We had the wall display up before the second hit. The room was full of young Army Chinook and Apache pilots who immediately started with: “The world has changed, we’re at war”. I told the nearest Longbow pilot: “No, a bunch of criminals just got very, very lucky.”

By the time the Pentagon hit was confirmed by our shop across the road in Crystal City, we had started pulling and reviewing our agency’s regional operating plans.

346
Single-handed sailor  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:27:50pm

re: #327 EPR-radar

Thunder in the SF bay area now. Some rain to go with it would be nice.

… to put out the fires the lightning causes. The rain drops that are falling evaporate off my patio in 30 seconds.

347
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:28:48pm

re: #264 freetoken

The topic of this post is about the guy trying to run down protestors with his truck.

This comes from an angry person. And one who is not capable of resolving their anger by other means.

That is what happens to groups too. As you note, regardless of who won the 2000 election, the US was going to get revenge on the government that harboured AQ.

Inevitably we’ve learned that we’re not going to be able to remake Afghanistan into our image, that terrorism will continue regardless of how many hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on wars.

I’m not through all the comments…but yours is the second that mentioned Afghanistan…and not Iraq. Yet, more was made of Iraq by the Bushies than Afghanistan. It seemed that way to me at least.

Just an interesting observation. I wish we could all forget about Iraq.

348
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:29:05pm

Trump is the first US President to abandon the goal of US Presidents since FDR, to assert moral leadership in the world.

349
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:29:09pm

re: #343 EPR-radar

Ugh on the self-employment taxes. Yay for the weather. Some of these peals of thunder actually sound impressive, rather than the usual CA pattern of “Is it thunder or a big rig on the nearest highway?”

I think I’ve cracked the code, at least. Enough to file by Friday for the current batch.

I’m hoping for more. I cracked open the window to enjoy it, to hell with the heat (although it’s dropped 7 degrees with the storm).

350
gocart mozart  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:30:45pm
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351
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:30:50pm

re: #347 ObserverArt

I’m not through all the comments…but yours is the second that mentioned Afghanistan…and not Iraq. Yet, more was made of Iraq by the Bushies than Afghanistan. It seemed that way to me at least.

Just an interesting observation. I wish we could all forget about Iraq.

The Bushies went into Afghanistan merely out of obligation. Their target all along was Iraq. That was how I saw it at the time, and back then I was much more neutral between (R) and (D) than I am now.

352
gocart mozart  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:30:57pm
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353
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:31:21pm
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354
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:31:33pm

re: #350 gocart mozart

There are worse ways to go.//

355
teleskiguy  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:31:38pm

re: #350 gocart mozart

I’m reminded of a line in that terrible film “Basic Instinct.”

He got off before he got offed.

356
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:31:55pm

re: #350 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Using what as a weapon, I shudder to ask…

357
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:31:57pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

These guys whining at you are the same guys who wear the “F*ck Your Feelings” shirts.

Got it.

358
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:32:54pm

re: #352 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Hey! Don’t judge where you have no compassion!

360
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:35:14pm
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361
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:35:28pm

re: #359 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

A faggot? Like this? And here I thought you were a guitar player.

362
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:36:07pm
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363
PhillyPretzel  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:36:14pm

re: #361 Blind Frog Belly White

Hmm. That looks like a bassoon. or an oboe?

364
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:36:30pm

re: #360 Charles Johnson

Being drunk probably has no effect on either the manners or cognitive function of wingnuts.

365
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:37:56pm

re: #364 EPR-radar

Being drunk probably has no effect on either the manners or cognitive function of wingnuts.

Never underestimate the witty powers that Natty Light brings!

//

366
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:37:59pm

re: #287 Charles Johnson

[Steve88 @Steve88Truth
Secret service ,please do something about this anti american who wants to downplay islamic terrorist attack just because he hates president.
7:38 PM - Sep 11, 2017]

Obviously Charles has found a free speech advocate.

367
Decatur Deb  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:38:16pm

re: #363 PhillyPretzel

Hmm. That looks like a bassoon.

It doesn’t look like an Oxbridge upperclassman’s freshman serving-boy.

368
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:38:57pm

re: #363 PhillyPretzel

Hmm. That looks like a bassoon. or an oboe?

Bassoon, aka The Farting Bedpost.

Mrs. FBW played Bassoon in High School, and periodically daydreams about buying one and starting it up again. It’s a weird instrument.

369
PhillyPretzel  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:39:33pm

re: #364 EPR-radar

Manners? They would be completely lost having a dinner with the Dowager Countess. Opps. I forgot they would not be watching Downton Abbey.

370
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:39:53pm

re: #368 Blind Frog Belly White

Bassoon, aka The Farting Bedpost.

Mrs. FBW played Bassoon in High School, and periodically daydreams about buying one and starting it up again. It’s a weird instrument.

My mom and both sisters play. Both sisters have one, actually.

It is a weird instrument.

371
Belafon  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:40:14pm

re: #287 Charles Johnson

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372
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:41:00pm
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373
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:41:12pm

re: #370 klys (maker of Silmarils)

My mom and both sisters play. Both sisters have one, actually.

It is a weird instrument.

When Mrs. FBW told me about the ‘flick keys’, I decided it was designed by someone insane.

374
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:41:16pm

re: #371 Belafon

[Embedded content]

That’s why Obama made AND USED all of those FEMA Camps.

//

375
teleskiguy  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:42:23pm

re: #374 b.d. (bill d.)

That’s why Obama made AND USED all of those FEMA Camps.

//

JADE HELM!!!

376
gocart mozart  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:42:52pm

LOL

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377
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:44:26pm

re: #372 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And, what, you thought the Trump-worshippers were going to take it lying down? I know we all joke about how they think LGF is irrelevant, but let’s be honest - we live in a world where every single word spoken against the god-emperor must be harshly criticized. I’m genuinely curious how you thought they would react, though.

378
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:45:25pm

re: #375 teleskiguy

JADE HELM!!!

[Embedded content]

ISIS ARMY CAMPS RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER IN MEXICO !!

379
scottslemmons  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:46:34pm

Entirely off-topic: I was surfing around reading about various old pulp magazines, and am now furious that I’m not able to read a collected edition of all the stories about Violet McDade and Nevada Alvarado.

In related news: There are not nearly enough novels starring Pat Savage, Doc Savage’s cousin.

380
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:46:44pm

re: #377 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

And, what, you thought the Trump-worshippers were going to take it lying down? I know we all joke about how they think LGF is irrelevant, but let’s be honest - we live in a world where every single word spoken against the god-emperor must be harshly criticized. I’m genuinely curious how you thought they would react, though.

God-Emperor of Dumb.

381
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:46:52pm

re: #377 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

And, what, you thought the Trump-worshippers were going to take it lying down? I know we all joke about how they think LGF is irrelevant, but let’s be honest - we live in a world where every single word spoken against the god-emperor must be harshly criticized. I’m genuinely curious how you thought they would react, though.

Oh, I knew I’d trigger some abuse — pretty much everything I tweet does — but this one really went abuse-viral.

382
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:47:34pm

re: #379 scottslemmons

Entirely off-topic: I was surfing around reading about various old pulp magazines, and am now furious that I’m not able to read a collected edition of all the stories about Violet McDade and Nevada Alvarado.

In related news: There are not nearly enough novels starring Pat Savage, Doc Savage’s cousin.

Nevada Alvarado? Boy, THERE’S a name that doesn’t roll gracefully off the tongue.

383
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:48:00pm

re: #381 Charles Johnson

Oh, I knew I’d trigger some abuse — pretty much everything I tweet does — but this one really went abuse-viral.

Fair enough. I suppose it is unusual for them to sic the whole horde of flying monkeys on you all at once.

384
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:48:10pm
ReplyReply w/ Quote

Yep, irrelevant. That’s why I’ve gotten thousands and thousands of hate-tweets today. I’d hate to see what happens if I actually become relevant.

385
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:48:43pm

re: #381 Charles Johnson

Oh, I knew I’d trigger some abuse — pretty much everything I tweet does — but this one really went abuse-viral.

But your tweet happened on a sacred day that those people think the government staged.

Go figure?

386
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:49:49pm

re: #384 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yep, irrelevant. That’s why I’ve gotten thousands and thousands of hate-tweets today. I’d hate to see what happens if I actually become relevant.

As Rick Wilson tweets to those who call him irrelevant, “And yet here you are, begging for my attention.”

387
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:51:40pm
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388
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:53:14pm
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389
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:55:04pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

They seem nice…

//

390
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:55:37pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It’s so easy to want to kill millions of people when you’re hiding behind a computer screen. Look them in the eye and tell them that. Then I’ll call you a psychopath and have you put in a mental institution, because there is something terminally WRONG with that kind of thinking.

391
makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:57:23pm

re: #352 gocart mozart

ucker Carlson looks at all his guests like they’re eating mayonnaise straight out the jar.

I figured out where that look came from.

Hey Moe!
392
plansbandc  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:58:56pm

Many many people still think this is a normal administration. It isn’t. Unfortunately, everyone who doesn’t realize it is going to realize it in a most ugly way. Eventually.

393
Decatur Deb  Sep 11, 2017 • 5:59:34pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

The judges have ruled that, even though tweets aren’t technically hatemail, the level of response will trigger the Hatemail Tipjar.

394
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:00:28pm

re: #391 makeitstop

I figured out where that look came from.

[Embedded content]

I was thinking more…

395
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:02:22pm

Water appears to have been falling from the sky here in South City.

396
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:02:29pm
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397
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:02:40pm

re: #390 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

And that was my 26,000th comment here. I actually made it a legit one. Aw, hell.

398
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:02:42pm

re: #351 EPR-radar

The Bushies went into Afghanistan merely out of obligation. Their target all along was Iraq. That was how I saw it at the time, and back then I was much more neutral between (R) and (D) than I am now.

A lot of the conspiracy theorists from the left think Bush set up 9/11 just to have a reason to go after Iraq for the honor of Daddy. Afghanistan was a side benefit and allowed open hatred of all Muslims.

I look at it more like 9/11 was an excuse for Bush to go after Iraq because so many were ready to hate Muslims. Why just stop with the Taliban?

399
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:02:45pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

If Charles is irrelevant than why are all of these crazed, involuntary celibate, wingnuts wasting their time on him?

400
bratwurst  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:03:06pm

Having a bad day here, have not had a chance to find inappropriate 9/11 observances online today…this is the best I can do:

ReplyReply w/ QuoteImage
401
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:03:09pm

India lodges official complaint over lamb ad

The video is just weird, but the Aussie talking heads seem to think it’s funny.

But catch the guy in the robe with long hair and blue eyes. Hmmm…. wonder who he’s supposed to be.

402
makeitstop  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:07:14pm

re: #378 b.d. (bill d.)

ISIS ARMY CAMPS RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER IN MEXICO IN MICHIGAN !!

403
Romantic Heretic  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:09:29pm

re: #398 ObserverArt

Recommend this book on the subject.

Its thesis, that I tend to agree with, is that the neo-cons around W had been planning on flattening Iraq for a decade before 9/11. They admitted they couldn’t do it, even under W, because Americans aren’t willing to have their kids die in a faraway land for world hegemony.

9/11 gave them just the excuse they needed, and the rest is history. A history that I believe will say that bin Laden won because the US started down the road to its own destruction in reaction to 9/11.

404
JordanRules  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:09:46pm
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405
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:11:23pm
ReplyReply w/ Quote
406
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:13:41pm
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407
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:15:22pm
ReplyReply w/ Quote
408
freetoken  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:16:15pm

re: #406 Blind Frog Belly White

Kind of a tangent here, but I marvel at how images used in so many otherwise high-end media outlets are not properly exposed images.

409
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:16:42pm

The Older Boy is learning how to cook.

Bastard bought ONE STEAK, and I think he ate it all!!!

410
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:16:56pm

re: #407 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

How is their spelling holding up?

411
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:18:46pm

By the way, I’ve actually gotten more followers after that tweet. So the smear pile-on doesn’t seem to be working.

412
Mattand  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:22:55pm

re: #411 Charles Johnson

By the way, I’ve actually gotten more followers after that tweet. So the smear pile-on doesn’t seem to be working.

I’m just getting up to speed. Was it the “9/11 was bad, but Trump is worse” cup of honesty that’s got their white robe onesies in a bunch?

413
Charles Johnson  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:23:25pm
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414
Mattand  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:26:38pm

re: #411 Charles Johnson

By the way, I’ve actually gotten more followers after that tweet. So the smear pile-on doesn’t seem to be working.

Just subscribed after putting it off for years. Thanks for you and the Lizardim for keeping me sane.

415
I cannot.  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:29:34pm
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416
gocart mozart  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:31:33pm
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417
fern01  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:31:56pm

re: #50 The Vicious Babushka

re: #189 Targetpractice

It’s why Michelle drew much the same negativity during her years in the White House, daring to get out there and be a big voice in politics rather than sitting at home and tending the house while hubby was leading the nation.

Michelle never got involved in political issues - those things she did get involved with were turned into political issues by the RW - since when was healthy eating political? or looking after the wives of service personnel. Michelle was a mother first - and FLOTUS second - those values that republicans used to believe in.

The media - in all its glory, turned everything Democrat FLOTUS’s did into politics.

418
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:32:35pm

re: #415 I cannot.

That’s really more of a “looks at someone as though they are dining from the cat box” thing.

419
ObserverArt  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:33:39pm

re: #400 bratwurst

Having a bad day here, have not had a chance to find inappropriate 9/11 observances online today…this is the best I can do:

[Embedded content]

I may be late, but did you see Charles’ #291above?

420
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:33:45pm

re: #416 gocart mozart

She’s a theocrat. It’s just that simple.

Edited to add: if the diary on DailyKos is accurate reporting.

421
EPR-radar  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:37:10pm

re: #416 gocart mozart

Actually, there is significant skepticism in the dKos comments on this diary, so it might not be as it first appears (I haven’t had time to research it further than that).

422
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:40:21pm

935MkNAS00FMOewAzs145/8HvmvNuhMNujTMo448wk/QTXzsp1UbvV5dHn3msdMeDePV7RQTCQCU5zf7w7hwYPMKSkN7+uZINLT25iFHjHl2gN/IuC5WVMNtvF0mrZuEpJBr855RPl9m5aiXuQ6oeOgA5M7TYMWwz0vXPxltkrdoHNfqrCZQtKorpVvtDr+lXNuKNIEcReZauzpL3dJL8H+N/iFPwgAA2FuaH7+3BK8FNvOVcx9RhCQUY5DnfPvRO4fVFaZS1ZBj3JtB8Z+4IUxf82qzgJwZ6tUWaF6Uovz6MorEjjFyvgjEU1wUqmOXtd33aaLONsTR78SYI8Ccwg==

423
b.d. (bill d.)  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:40:36pm

is this the palooka that is giving you hell for not treating 9/11 with proper respect?

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424
teleskiguy  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:41:15pm

Joe Arpaio: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

425
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:41:45pm

Look, see, real weather!

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(This is not an endorsement of sportsegg.)

426
Targetpractice  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:43:07pm

Another day, another revelation that comes as a shock to exactly zero people:

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Trump’s lawyers point out that his son-in-law is a risk, yet he not only remains, he keeps his security clearance.

427
mmmirele  Sep 11, 2017 • 6:59:38pm

re: #350 gocart mozart

I guess nobody paid attention to the Fembots in Austin Powers?

Austin Powers Fembots

428
petesh  Sep 11, 2017 • 7:25:13pm

re: #367 Decatur Deb

It doesn’t look like an Oxbridge upperclassman’s freshman serving-boy.

No no, not Oxbridge, Public School. It was the 17- & 18-yr-olds who had 13- & 14-year-old servants called “fags.” I basically didn’t have to do any fagging because I was academically advanced (thanks to an excellent prep school, again in the British sense), and once I got to be senior I just flat refused to cooperate with the system. I could make my own coffee, thankyewvermuch, and baked beans too. I also refused to issue “lines” (punishments that required writing some dumb sentence over and over), preferring to exercise my disciplinary duties by saying “Please don’t do that.” Which worked fine. My mid-60s generation thought we’d got rid of that shit, but noooooo, it all came back again right after we left.

429
Eventual Carrion  Sep 11, 2017 • 7:50:56pm

re: #416 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Unless Muslim or Jewish I’m sure. Only Jesus’s law.


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