Sean Spicer at the Emmys, or the Normalization of Awfulness

Not seeing the humor

I’m glad I’m not the only one who felt deep revulsion about the Emmys putting up Sean Spicer as “entertainment.” The Washington Post’s Aaron Blake has a good piece on this.

When Spicer exited as press secretary, I wrote about how this kind of thing should not be normalized. Spokesmen have a duty to represent their bosses and toe the company line, but they also have a duty to do so believably and with some regard for the truth. There are shades of gray, and then there is laughing at flouting the truth, which is what Spicer did Sunday night. When spokesmen do that, dismissing their falsehoods only serves notice to other spokesmen that they needn’t worry about being credible.

Spicer served Trump for more than six months — a period in which he was repeatedly dispatched to say things that strained credulity and were found to be false. When the media and the American people give spokesmen no compunction about doing that — and suggest that one day it could all be laughed off — the falsehoods will only multiply.

It should also be noted that Spicer didn’t start being awful when he worked with Trump; he’s been a hard core right wing liar for years, as communications director for the RNC.

Now he’s supposed to be amusing.

Jump to bottom

278 comments

1
BeachDem  Sep 18, 2017 • 12:40:56pm

Robyn Pennacchia at Wonkette agrees:

Sean Spicer making a joke out of his job lying for Donald Trump and helping to push a dangerous agenda is fundamentally not the same as like, me making fun of myself for being terrible at cutting my own bangs and continually attempting to anyway. Charles Manson doesn’t get to make self-deprecating jokes, and neither does Sean Spicer.

That’s why people are so uncomfortable with it, that’s why no one is laughing, because what he did is not forgivable. Frankly, Colbert and the writing staff of the Emmys should have been aware of that. It was bad and they should feel bad.

wonkette.com

2
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 18, 2017 • 12:46:08pm

The media-industrial complex has cut a deal with fascism, much as German industrialists cut a deal with Hitler to rein in the SA. Who will be Trump’s Rohm?

3
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 18, 2017 • 12:51:10pm

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

The media-industrial complex has cut a deal with fascism, much as German industrialists cut a deal with Hitler to rein in the SA. Who will be Trump’s Rohm?

Night of the long shlong.

4
Kragar  Sep 18, 2017 • 12:52:19pm
5
Charles Johnson  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:00:39pm
6
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:02:47pm
7
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:05:05pm

yep…what Greg said.

8
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:05:24pm

re: #6 Backwoods_Sleuth

Murkowski sounds undecided on Cassidy-Graham, saying she’s working w/ Cassidy’s office and her governor to understand its impact on Alaska.

Doesn’t give a shit about its impact on 49 other states.

9
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:05:46pm
10
Interesting Times  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:06:46pm

Highly relevant thread:

11
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:07:08pm

re: #9 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

She was asked a question and answered it.
She did NOT “float the possibility”…the guy interviewing her was the “floater of possibilities”.

12
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:08:33pm

re: #11 Backwoods_Sleuth

She also didn’t say to contest it. She said the opposite.

The media is so foul in this.

13
makeitstop  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:10:04pm

re: #9 JordanRules

HRC goes on to say that we don’t have a mechanism for contesting it. So it’s a non-starter.

The money quote in that context that followed it is important - ‘I think you can raise questions.’

I’d give every Dem marching orders to ‘raise questions’ in every single media appearance, press conference and town hall. It might not get Trump out of office, but all but the most willfully ignorant would realize that he wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place.

14
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:10:44pm
15
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:11:12pm

Who in their right mind wouldn’t question the legitimacy? That’s normalization of epic proportions.

16
Sir John Barron  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:12:54pm

re: #7 Backwoods_Sleuth

yep…what Greg said.

CNN Politics: Hillary Clinton says she will overthrow government.

/

17
Interesting Times  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:12:56pm

re: #15 JordanRules

Who in their right mind wouldn’t question the legitimacy? That’s normalization of epic proportions.

…which, unfortunately, makes perfect sense in the context of the “starter kit” that was the 2000 election clusterfrack -_-

18
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:13:50pm

re: #10 Interesting Times

Highly relevant thread:

[Embedded content]

Spot on.

19
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:14:46pm

re: #17 Interesting Times

Starter kit. That’s perfect.

Nothing is off the table for 2020 it seems.

20
Interesting Times  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:25:19pm

re: #19 JordanRules

Nothing is off the table for 2020 it seems.

Exactly, which is why Sarah Kendzior keeps saying that the fight to stop voter suppression has to be the main focus for 2018 (and no scenario, no matter how absurd, should be ruled out - if it’s an evil, unethical or even criminal action that lets GOPers win, it will be done…so prepare the defenses - and offenses - now).

Speaking of Kendzior, she also retweeted this - I like it because it’s an example of effective messaging from a sitting Dem senator:

21
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:29:39pm
22
Dave In Austin  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:34:15pm

I love Texas flats fishermen. This may be the best for today.

23
Dave In Austin  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:38:16pm

Anyone interacting with Cillizza needs to say that every time.

24
Dave In Austin  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:45:28pm
25
makeitstop  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:50:31pm

I had no idea that Gab even handed out suspensions.

Also - Roger Stone butthurt makes my day.

26
Stanley Sea  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:51:50pm

re: #22 Dave In Austin

I love Texas flats fishermen. This may be the best for today.

[Embedded content]

That is so cool.

Poor little water bandit!

27
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:56:35pm

That Cilizza headline and article are so deeply irresponsible, so unsupported by facts, and yet so totally predictable. It’s like 2016 in one little package.

BTW, Jake Tapper’s tweet of that article? He appears to have taken it down.

28
makeitstop  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:56:51pm

I haven’t seen this posted here - Man poses for selfie with Tomi Lahren, asks ‘how does it feel to be a racist piece of shit?’

(Headline is self-explanatory.)

29
Dave In Austin  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:58:05pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

That is so cool.

Poor little water bandit!

Mind you. Saltwater, miles and miles to shore. It’s a foot deep…..

30
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 1:59:15pm

re: #27 Blind Frog Belly White

Good for Jake. Meanwhile Clizza doubles down. How in the hell are you so bad at your job and still have one?

31
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:00:33pm

Hurricane Maria is now a Cat4.

32
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:00:54pm

re: #30 JordanRules

Good for Jake. Meanwhile Clizza doubles down. How in the hell are you so bad at your job and still have one?

CNN knew what it was getting when it hired him. It’s not like his blog and columns weren’t public.

33
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:02:34pm
34
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:05:33pm

re: #32 Blind Frog Belly White

Indeed and that extends to guests as well. Like when they just had Clay Travis on and he went all boobs crazy. 2 mins of research and you’d know what you’re getting.

But, it’s about the $ and their boss basically doesn’t even hide it.

35
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:07:55pm

re: #33 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

There is no point to having insurance then, is there?

36
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:08:11pm

re: #33 JordanRules

Fuck. Take one guess who has asthma.

37
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:09:01pm

I’d really, REALLY like someone with a preexisting condition, like a cancer survivor, to corner Lindsey Graham, on camera, and require him to explain why he believes they should pay more for health insurance because of a condition that was not caused by any action or choice of their own.

And don’t let him off the hook with bullshit handwaving.

Why don’t reporters do this anymore? Is it just that politicians shop around for friendly venues? Or is it that reporters are afraid of holding politicians to account lest they lose ‘access’?

38
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:10:08pm

This Spicer thing is just the latest in the uncomfortable blending of the political and entertainment arenas and a natural progression from an Administration who seems guided more by the antics of the WWE than the writings of Washington, Jefferson and Franklin.

39
plansbandc  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:10:16pm

The picture of James Corden kissing Spicer is disgusting. Another star who is now dead to me.

40
Belafon  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:10:35pm

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

I’d really, REALLY like someone with a preexisting condition, like a cancer survivor, to corner Lindsey Graham, on camera, and require him to explain why he believes they should pay more for health insurance because of a condition that was not caused by any action or choice of their own.

And don’t let him off the hook with bullshit handwaving.

Why don’t reporters do this anymore? Is it just that politicians shop around for friendly venues? Or is it that reporters are afraid of holding politicians to account lest they lose ‘access’?

Politicians have learned how to make it harder for reporters to have access, for one thing.

41
Charles Johnson  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:10:36pm
42
SteelPH  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:11:30pm

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

Why don’t reporters do this anymore? Is it just that politicians shop around for friendly venues? Or is it that reporters are afraid of holding politicians to account lest they lose ‘access’?

Yes.

43
plansbandc  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:11:38pm

re: #36 Eclectic Cyborg

Same here. If this shit passes, Mr. plandsbandc and I will no longer be able to afford insurance or our medications. It is quite literally a death sentence.

44
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:12:34pm
45
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:13:35pm

re: #36 Eclectic Cyborg

Well, at least my Republican governor is somewhat sane. I might not have to deal with the pre-existing condition nonsense as badly since it’s up to the states if I understand it correctly.

Oh yay, and mental health gets shit on once again.

Everyone get on board the time machine once again!

46
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:14:45pm

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

I’d really, REALLY like someone with a preexisting condition, like a cancer survivor, to corner Lindsey Graham, on camera, and require him to explain why he believes they should pay more for health insurance because of a condition that was not caused by any action or choice of their own.

And don’t let him off the hook with bullshit handwaving.

Why don’t reporters do this anymore? Is it just that politicians shop around for friendly venues? Or is it that reporters are afraid of holding politicians to account lest they lose ‘access’?

Reporters? We have reporters?

I thought we just had pretty people reading stuff from a camera teleprompter that have no clue about any of the facts behind the text they are reading.

47
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:17:09pm

re: #45 alloutofcrazyhere

mr. klys and I were talking about how, if his parents’ health declines, we might have to temporarily move to NC.

It would be ironic if we couldn’t because of this, which is (sadly) something his parents likely support.

(I too have one of those pesky pre-exisiting conditions, although I’m not under active treatment for it right now.)

48
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:17:16pm

Interesting dynamic emerging here.

49
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:18:33pm

re: #47 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The beauty of per-existing conditions to the insurance industry is that you don’t have to be under treatment for them to refuse to sell you a policy.

50
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:19:34pm

re: #47 klys (maker of Silmarils)

mr. klys and I were talking about how, if his parents’ health declines, we might have to temporarily move to NC.

It would be ironic if we couldn’t because of this, which is (sadly) something his parents likely support.

(I too have one of those pesky pre-exisiting conditions, although I’m not under active treatment for it right now.)

Which is likely immaterial.

51
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:20:51pm

So, MrBWS has been working since 5 or 6 am and has been told that the guys will be informed by midnight whether they can go home or have to stay in Florida.
I told him that if they get released, then he has to take off the rest of the week … lol, given that it takes about 16-18 hours to drive back to Cincinnati and then another 2 hours back home to The Backwoods…that would be three days off…
Then there’s Maria, so unless she takes a serious right hand turn into the Atlantic, he’ll be called back out on storm this weekend in the Carolinas or elsewhere on the East Coast.

In the meantime, MrBWS doesn’t have to mow the backyard when he gets home. Our contractor has 75% of the yard dug up in order to run one line to the septic tank and another to the wellhouse.

construction pics below the fold:

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

52
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:21:30pm

re: #48 JordanRules

Interesting dynamic emerging here.

[Embedded content]

States Rights!! Unless it’s to do something I don’t like.

53
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:22:35pm

re: #47 klys (maker of Silmarils)

mr. klys and I were talking about how, if his parents’ health declines, we might have to temporarily move to NC.

It would be ironic if we couldn’t because of this, which is (sadly) something his parents likely support.

(I too have one of those pesky pre-exisiting conditions, although I’m not under active treatment for it right now.)

Once it’s on your permanent record, it’s all over for you, missy…

54
makeitstop  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:23:28pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

So, MrBWS has been working since 5 or 6 am and has been told that the guys will be informed by midnight whether they can go home or have to stay in Florida.
I told him that if they get released, then he has to take off the rest of the week … lol, given that it takes about 16-18 hours to drive back to Cincinnati and then another 2 hours back home to The Backwoods…that would be three days off…
Then there’s Maria, so unless she takes a serious right hand turn into the Atlantic, he’ll be called back out on storm this weekend in the Carolinas or elsewhere on the East Coast.

In the meantime, MrBWS doesn’t have to mow the backyard when he gets home. Our contractor has 75% of the yard dug up in order to run one line to the septic tank and another to the wellhouse.

construction pics below the fold:

[Embedded content]

SzoQnJ/qDYzZQLK2nbDmLSqB/xXe5lEWokDwSKAbDj2M8v0QOhTSiA==

55
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:24:00pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

construction pics below the fold:

[Embedded content]

I bet there’s an angle you could photograph that from that would make it look like a hobbit house.

56
MsJ  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:24:19pm

Good fucking god.

57
electrotek  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:24:54pm
58
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:25:14pm

re: #54 makeitstop

006/HjWnoGX4VnYh9xj8cl6m8caVHT8i592QZSM1C5k0eIcUScSVPqHZdrPNNWLN6qc74z57ma1vSkY88Fj5iVkuxr3bItOVRZyKC9q2SMR3pPcFwgT6Wqwu/GlBaqPvFJK5lzzrlZ0hWwuwjuoNKg==

59
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:25:36pm

re: #55 sagehen

I bet there’s an angle you could photograph that from that would make it look like a hobbit house.

yep!

60
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:25:44pm

re: #53 Backwoods_Sleuth

Once it’s on your permanent record, it’s all over for you, missy…

It’s one of them “…are you now, or have you ever been…” scenarios. And if you don’t tell the truth, they get to cancel on you.

Puts me in mind of ….

YouTube

61
MsJ  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:26:02pm
62
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:26:15pm

Well, for those of you, like me, that are feeling like crap over this health care bill, I recommend watching Saw VI.

Let’s just say that the “players” of that particular game for this movie are health insurance executives. As with all Saw movies, things don’t end well for the “players.”

Kind of like watching Indiana Jones punch Nazis.

At least I can live vicariously through movies like these.

63
Dave In Austin  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:32:51pm

Oh look there’s Moar!!

64
whitebeach  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:33:53pm

re: #35 Backwoods_Sleuth

There is no point to having insurance then, is there?

Really. I mean, $17,000+ just for added premiums for pregnancy? I mentioned here once before that my mom still the hospital bill for my world debut. It comes to something like $127, and that included ten nights in the hospital, since in those days a long rest was considered best for new mothers. The anesthesiologist charged $3.50. That’s correct: three dollars and fifty cents. Two weeks of my dad’s pay as a sergeant in the Army Air Corps, far from a princely sum, could cover it all.

True, this was in the days shortly after doctors stopped using leeches, but still it seems a long and not altogether wonderful way for our nation to have come.

65
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:34:10pm

re: #62 alloutofcrazyhere

Well, for those of you, like me, that are feeling like crap over this health care bill, I recommend watching Saw VI.

Let’s just say that the “players” of that particular game for this movie are health insurance executives. As with all Saw movies, things don’t end well for the “players.”

Kind of like watching Indiana Jones punch Nazis.

At least I can live vicariously through movies like these.

It’s not even the insurance company execs, really. What would happen if you take off the preexisting conditions surcharge ban is that there’ll be a competition to cut prices for ‘healthy’ people, because you need people paying IN who aren’t taking OUT. The more you cut premiums for the ‘healthy’, the more you have to charge everyone else. That’s why the ban on surcharges is there in the first place.

Insurance execs are perfectly happy collecting the same total amount in premiums without the surcharge by charging everyone the same. But if that’s no longer legally required, the competition for ‘healthy’ people will become fierce.

66
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:34:29pm

re: #56 MsJ

Good fucking god.

[Embedded content]

The rich don’t pay for their own insurance. Their company does, so what do they care?

Answer. Not a single bit.

67
MsJ  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:34:51pm

Uhm…

These are the people who are setting policy. Fucking Russian interference got Trump elected to he can fuck us? NO. Goddamnit. Just fucking no.

68
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:35:51pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

No you dumb fuck, it’s NOT protected speech!

Gab is NOT the government.

69
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:36:36pm

re: #47 klys (maker of Silmarils)

mr. klys and I were talking about how, if his parents’ health declines, we might have to temporarily move to NC.

It would be ironic if we couldn’t because of this, which is (sadly) something his parents likely support.

(I too have one of those pesky pre-exisiting conditions, although I’m not under active treatment for it right now.)

Being a human means you have a pre-existing condition.

We all get sick, we all have injuries, we all get old and life wears on your body.

Fuck the Republican scum.

I have a standard little comment I am now trying to send to every freaking Senator if I can get it done.

Just in case, below is the link to the web pages that have every Senator’s contact info.

Please do a little comment saying you don’t want them to pass Graham-Cassidy-Heller legislation, you want the ACA kept and fixed to make it better. Remind them close to 70% of America wants the ACA kept and fixed, and also mention to them you are telling everyone you come into contact never vote for Republicans again because of dangerous and uncaring legislation like this.

https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/

70
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:36:41pm

re: #68 Eclectic Cyborg

No you dumb fuck, it’s NOT protected speech!

Gab is NOT the government.

You didn’t read the whole tweet.

71
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:37:15pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

So, MrBWS has been working since 5 or 6 am and has been told that the guys will be informed by midnight whether they can go home or have to stay in Florida.
I told him that if they get released, then he has to take off the rest of the week … lol, given that it takes about 16-18 hours to drive back to Cincinnati and then another 2 hours back home to The Backwoods…that would be three days off…
Then there’s Maria, so unless she takes a serious right hand turn into the Atlantic, he’ll be called back out on storm this weekend in the Carolinas or elsewhere on the East Coast.

In the meantime, MrBWS doesn’t have to mow the backyard when he gets home. Our contractor has 75% of the yard dug up in order to run one line to the septic tank and another to the wellhouse.

construction pics below the fold:

[Embedded content]

DIyvhXmXVCYAlFSoT/pG1XzvepYm1bzq+izS9KVu4P2dxfxdC7FS9pr4tJE6Mnu8rAcRQSqtK8nMe4/le9q1AEcsfD2iDquwvsAjcEUlT95YrF5fsXbZTWuvV0fjUO3OJ3jo1pHed9ANgvHWma2gT9Hge7dNTBMb3UCKXUU2lnnv16je5RueCQ==

72
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:39:23pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

So, MrBWS has been working since 5 or 6 am and has been told that the guys will be informed by midnight whether they can go home or have to stay in Florida.
I told him that if they get released, then he has to take off the rest of the week … lol, given that it takes about 16-18 hours to drive back to Cincinnati and then another 2 hours back home to The Backwoods…that would be three days off…
Then there’s Maria, so unless she takes a serious right hand turn into the Atlantic, he’ll be called back out on storm this weekend in the Carolinas or elsewhere on the East Coast.

In the meantime, MrBWS doesn’t have to mow the backyard when he gets home. Our contractor has 75% of the yard dug up in order to run one line to the septic tank and another to the wellhouse.

construction pics below the fold:

[Embedded content]

Looking good Sleuth. Who did the design or was it a standard pattern?

73
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:40:29pm

re: #70 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

You didn’t read the whole tweet.

Ah, didn’t realize there was a chain there.

74
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:41:15pm

re: #16 Sir John Barron

CNN Politics: Hillary Clinton says she will overthrow government.

/

And implement Sharia Law and change the capital to Benghazi.

75
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:41:49pm

I guess it’s ‘too soon to talk about Climate Change’ again.

76
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:42:08pm

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

I’d really, REALLY like someone with a preexisting condition, like a cancer survivor, to corner Lindsey Graham, on camera, and require him to explain why he believes they should pay more for health insurance because of a condition that was not caused by any action or choice of their own.

And don’t let him off the hook with bullshit handwaving.

Why don’t reporters do this anymore? Is it just that politicians shop around for friendly venues? Or is it that reporters are afraid of holding politicians to account lest they lose ‘access’?

I want John McCain to do the confronting. And understand that it applies to him.

77
makeitstop  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:44:10pm

‘Not normal’ is sort of an understatement here.

78
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:44:41pm

re: #76 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

Would be nice if the MSM would frame the ACA repeal as damaging to Americans as a whole rather than portray it as a win for Republicans. Cutting healthcare access to millions of Americans is not a football game. Nobody wins.

79
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:45:49pm

re: #77 makeitstop

‘Not normal’ is sort of an understatement here.

[Embedded content]

“Apocalyptic” is the new “Normal”.

80
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:45:59pm

re: #65 Blind Frog Belly White

Oh, I am not trying to simplify things by blaming the guys at the top rather than understanding the underlying system, I am just stating what happens in the movie. For the sake of brevity and because of the type of audience that those kinds of movies appeal to, it’s just a much simpler explanation for movie goers to grasp.

81
allegro  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:47:02pm

Another thing they aren’t mentioning is the number of hospitals that are going to go bankrupt and close if no one can afford insurance or payment for treatment. Funeral homes should be booming though.

82
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:48:50pm

re: #80 alloutofcrazyhere

Oh, I am not trying to simplify things by blaming the guys at the top rather than understanding the underlying system, I am just stating what happens in the movie. For the sake of brevity and because of the type of audience that those kinds of movies appeal to, it’s just a much simpler explanation for movie goers to grasp.

Better movie if the Kochs and Mercers have done to them what Valentine and Winthorpe do to The Dukes.

You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people.

83
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:51:09pm

re: #66 Skip Intro

The rich don’t pay for their own insurance. Their company does, so what do they care?

Answer. Not a single bit.

For the really wealthy, insurance is irrelevant. You only insure against losses you can’t afford to take. The ultra-wealthy can just pay for their health issues as they come up. It wouldn’t surprise me if they often set up special billing arrangements with their medical providers so they can pay cash without the usual downside of paying the x10 rates for non-insured unpersons.

84
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:51:36pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Odd because I assumed that Gab-ai had no limits at all on their precious “free speech” rights.

85
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:51:52pm

re: #76 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I want John McCain to do the confronting. And understand that it applies to him.

His wife is worth $100M. Her tax cuts would surely be more than his medical bills; ergo, none of this applies to him.

86
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:52:56pm

re: #78 Patricia Kayden

Would be nice if the MSM would frame the ACA repeal as damaging to Americans as a whole rather than portray it as a win for Republicans. Cutting healthcare access to millions of Americans is not a football game. Nobody wins.

Unless you think culling the herd of the weakest is a “win” for the rest of the gazelles.

87
whitebeach  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:53:40pm

re: #76 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I want John McCain to do the confronting. And understand that it applies to him.

Except that McCain is the guy who famously couldn’t recall how many houses he owned. I’m not sure how much people like that worry about insurance surcharges.

88
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:53:59pm

re: #82 Blind Frog Belly White

Makes me wonder if people like that would then learn the meaning of empathy.

Sometimes when that flaming bag of dog crap of reality lands on a persons doorstep, they change their views, other times, not so much.

I can understand and at least forgive the former, the later, I have no use for.

89
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:54:25pm

re: #86 sagehen

Unless you think culling the herd of the weakest is a “win” for the rest of the gazelles.

More of a win for the hyenas, actually.

90
Belafon  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:54:28pm

re: #86 sagehen

Unless you think culling the herd of the weakest is a “win” for the rest of the gazelles.

Republican playbook.
1. Cut program.
2. Convince whites that they’re hurting because blacks are receiving something they aren’t.
3. Go to 1.

91
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:55:10pm

re: #63 Dave In Austin

To be honest, the IRS rarely goes after churches which delve into politics anyways. But it is disgusting that Republicans are trying to legalize the church’s interference in the political arena when churches are allowed to be tax exempt.

92
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:56:27pm

re: #85 sagehen

His wife is worth $100M. Her tax cuts would surely be more than his medical bills; ergo, none of this applies to him.

But the ad “McCain has no problem with $142,000 surcharges, but what about you?” might really hit home.

93
BeachDem  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:56:38pm

Here’s how you can say happy birthday to Bakari (and who wouldn’t want to say happy birthday to Bakari?) Subscribe to his podcast.

94
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:57:06pm

re: #90 Belafon

Reminds me of the old two letters joke.

95
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:57:18pm

re: #85 sagehen

His wife is worth $100M. Her tax cuts would surely be more than his medical bills; ergo, none of this applies to him.

He’s on medicare plus whatever the government gives him. His insurance cost is around zero.

96
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:58:03pm

re: #86 sagehen

Unless you think culling the herd of the weakest is a “win” for the rest of the gazelles.

GOP proposals to exterminate ‘useless eaters’ will probably be seen within the next few years. The current GOP health care bill is kind of half-assing this.

97
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:58:15pm

re: #93 BeachDem

Here’s how you can say happy birthday to Bakari (and who wouldn’t want to say happy birthday to Bakari?) Subscribe to his podcast.

[Embedded content]

I really hope he runs for higher office BD, I’ve seen him on TV. Definitely someone that has a future.

98
whitebeach  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:58:51pm

re: #91 Patricia Kayden

To be honest, the IRS rarely goes after churches which delve into politics anyways. But it is disgusting that Republicans are trying to legalize the church’s interference in the political arena when churches are allowed to be tax exempt.

What part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” is so difficult for all these strict-constructionist Republicans to grasp?

99
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:59:33pm

re: #98 whitebeach

What part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” is so difficult for all these strict-constructionist Republicans to grasp?

They’ve actually bought the religious right’s bullshit instead of just shilling it.

100
scottslemmons  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:59:39pm

At this point, I just want the Sweet Meteor of Death solely so I don’t have to live through the next few decades of horror.

101
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 2:59:51pm

This country has a pre-existing condition now having turned into a malignancy.

Republicans.

They are out to kill us. And for some reason wingnuts and stupid Americans feed them all they need to keep growing out of control.

102
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:00:02pm

The only thing he knows is that Obama’s Administration negotiated the deal. He knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the details, or even the broad strokes. He just thinks it must not be fair. What a fucking baby.

103
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:00:12pm

re: #96 EPR-radar

GOP proposals to exterminate ‘useless eaters’ will probably be seen within the next few years. The current GOP health care bill is kind of half-assing this.

Too obvious. The anti-SNAP provisions of the Diet Freedom Act of 2019 should handle it.

104
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:00:43pm

re: #98 whitebeach

What part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” is so difficult for all these strict-constructionist Republicans to grasp?

GOP theocrats understand that part of the constitution perfectly well. They just don’t give a shit.

105
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:00:43pm

re: #49 Skip Intro

re: #50 Blind Frog Belly White

re: #53 Backwoods_Sleuth

I would point out that there are a few things on that list that are treated as a “pre-existing condition” that only seem to count when receiving active treatment. I mean, I grant you that pretty much all humans will end up with a pre-existing condition at some point because we exist, but I doubt they’re charging women an extra $17k a year after they’re no longer pregnant. (Although I’m sure they would if they could.)

That said, I’m well aware that I’m fucked and that’s why I pointed out we wouldn’t move to NC, even temporarily, because despite not being under active treatment at this point and having maintained insurance coverage without a gap since I was born, pretty much, I have no faith that NC isn’t going to fuck over people.

Off to try and be productive.

106
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:01:33pm

re: #102 Blind Frog Belly White

The only thing he knows is that Obama’s Administration negotiated the deal. He knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the details, or even the broad strokes. He just thinks it must not be fair. What a fucking baby.

[Embedded content]

Jesus.

107
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:02:43pm

re: #102 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m sure that checks made out in large amounts to tr*mp are the definition of “fairness” in tr*mpworld.

108
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:03:02pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

So much winning whining.

109
BeachDem  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:03:14pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I really hope he runs for higher office BD, I’ve seen him on TV. Definitely someone that has a future.

There was talk of him running for governor this time, but that died quickly. The thing is, he probably can’t win a statewide office in this dogforsaken state, so I think he’s holding his powder.

Rumor that he’ll go for Clyburn’s seat if/when he retires.

I have been impressed with Bakari since the first time I met him (about 6 years ago.) He is really special.

110
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:03:50pm

re: #108 alloutofcrazyhere

So much winning whining.

You’re going to get tired of it!

111
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:04:44pm

re: #101 ObserverArt

This country has a pre-existing condition now having turned into a malignancy.

Republicans.

They are out to kill us. And for some reason wingnuts and stupid Americans feed them all they need to keep growing out of control.

Republicans are absolutely a cancer upon the nation. This is the central truth of US politics that cannot be mentioned in the mainstream media.

112
Stanley Sea  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:05:57pm

re: #51 Backwoods_Sleuth

nz8gEjNLn7IYz0SzKSiTcnsKY4ZObQxE+TUXdDAEDW6519MQbvCaQtlJteYzXHdO+a08XGIk6fY=

113
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:08:22pm

I need to get my raspberry pi up and running with an LED so I can program a timer that counts down until the mid-terms or 2020.

Then I can stick it in my front window.

114
Bass Reeves  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:08:59pm

re: #84 Patricia Kayden

I would think after Mueller got a warrant for FB records, everyone is going to make sure that they can’t be personally liable as accessories to criminal activity.

115
CleverToad  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:08:59pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

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116
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:10:36pm

re: #48 JordanRules

Republicans are cartoonishly evil. So the GOP Louisiana Dude is worried that NY and CA will do the right thing and set up a single payer system so that their folks can get access to affordable healthcare? Really? I cannot even.

117
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:14:00pm

re: #64 whitebeach

Really. I mean, $17,000+ just for added premiums for pregnancy? I mentioned here once before that my mom still the hospital bill for my world debut. It comes to something like $127, and that included ten nights in the hospital, since in those days a long rest was considered best for new mothers. The anesthesiologist charged $3.50. That’s correct: three dollars and fifty cents. Two weeks of my dad’s pay as a sergeant in the Army Air Corps, far from a princely sum, could cover it all.

True, this was in the days shortly after doctors stopped using leeches, but still it seems a long and not altogether wonderful way for our nation to have come.

I was born at the Army Base Hospital at Fort Campbell in 1952 and the entire hospital bill was $6 and change.
Granted, it was a military hospital but still…

118
Targetpractice  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:14:17pm

re: #102 Blind Frog Belly White

The only thing he knows is that Obama’s Administration negotiated the deal. He knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the details, or even the broad strokes. He just thinks it must not be fair. What a fucking baby.

[Embedded content]

In the minds of the “America First” crowd, “fair” means the US can do as it likes and the rest of the world finds a way to deal. So when the rest of the world says “We need to do something about climate change,” wingnuts declare “No, you have to do something about it, we’re perfectly content with belching as much pollution as we can.”

119
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:15:27pm

re: #118 Targetpractice

In the minds of the “America First” crowd, “fair” means the US can do as it likes and the rest of the world finds a way to deal. So when the rest of the world says “We need to do something about climate change,” wingnuts declare “No, you have to do something about it, we’re perfectly content with belching as much pollution as we can.”

American Exceptionalism.

*vomits*

120
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:15:35pm

re: #101 ObserverArt

This country has a pre-existing condition now having turned into a malignancy.

Republicans.

They are out to kill us. And for some reason wingnuts and stupid Americans feed them all they need to keep growing out of control.

So true. Why do Americans have such a hard time with the idea that it is perfectly legitimate to expect the government (to which we pay billions of dollars in taxes) to provide services to the public? In most other developed country, access to healthcare is a right and not a privilege.

121
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:15:52pm

re: #65 Blind Frog Belly White

It’s not even the insurance company execs, really. What would happen if you take off the preexisting conditions surcharge ban is that there’ll be a competition to cut prices for ‘healthy’ people, because you need people paying IN who aren’t taking OUT. The more you cut premiums for the ‘healthy’, the more you have to charge everyone else. That’s why the ban on surcharges is there in the first place.

Insurance execs are perfectly happy collecting the same total amount in premiums without the surcharge by charging everyone the same. But if that’s no longer legally required, the competition for ‘healthy’ people will become fierce.

And in the end, the insurance companies will lose.
The sick won’t be able to afford to pay premiums and the healthy will drop their insurance the minute they see their premiums skyrocket after making a claim.

122
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:16:17pm

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was born at the Army Base Hospital at Fort Campbell in 1952 and the entire hospital bill was $6 and change.
Granted, it was a military hospital but still…

When Son2 was born we had insurance negotiated by the IUE in Louisville. The bill was $3, because of some little kit of diapers and comfort items that wasn’t covered.

123
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:16:39pm

re: #116 Patricia Kayden

Republicans are cartoonishly evil. So the GOP Louisiana Dude is worried that NY and CA will do the right thing and set up a single payer system so that their folks can get access to affordable healthcare? Really? I cannot even.

Nothing is more dangerous to Republicans than an example of government helping people in some reasonably efficient and effective manner.

If GOP Louisiana dude is an intelligent GOPer (i.e., an imbecile or better), he’ll come up with the bright idea of requiring all the block grants to the states to be used for cuts to state level taxes on the rich.

124
Targetpractice  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:17:16pm

re: #120 Patricia Kayden

So true. Why do Americans have such a hard time with the idea that it is perfectly legitimate to expect the government (to which we pay billions of dollars in taxes) to provide services to the public? In most other developed country, access to healthcare is a right and not a privilege.

Most of the rest of the world hasn’t turned capitalism into a religion.

125
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:18:03pm

re: #71 Decatur Deb

[Embedded content]

pQ4nfznXvhr3gahdiKmSLvDp5tiSQmqYnMqg4JFxLhzlk4PGteqkoxbcbPNMpYE7jJvSeRcki2+D8/RfKrJRGkCAFYkpWzHxwVCIJ4/bQMpHD7oK4bgDY/JJ//5FrkkKhfQeWmwRV6C155ChpGLb/t97ZyNITTo8DrtajMQlrLDF4GWGP0qv/w==

126
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:18:16pm

re: #121 Backwoods_Sleuth

And in the end, the insurance companies will lose.
The sick won’t be able to afford to pay premiums and the healthy will drop their insurance the minute they see their premiums skyrocket after making a claim.

Exactly.

127
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:18:46pm

re: #124 Targetpractice

Most of the rest of the world hasn’t turned capitalism into a religion cargo cult.

FTFY.

128
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:19:20pm

re: #72 ObserverArt

Looking good Sleuth. Who did the design or was it a standard pattern?

No pattern, no architect drawings. We just made it up as we went along.
Good thing we have a smart group of builders/engineers/craftspeople working on this.

129
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:19:27pm

re: #127 EPR-radar

FTFY.

Where do they put their airplane effigies?

130
Flying Squirrel Girl  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:19:33pm

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

When I lived in Costa Rica, friends of mine had a baby (no complications) and paid $2,300. Another friend had a baby and had several life threatening complications (amniotic fluid embolism, placenta accreta, and ultimately developed a very rare side effect called TENS which required her to spend a month in a burn unit), and even with all these they still only paid $67k. The hospital let them sign over a piece of raw land as collateral until the bill was paid. And both of these births were at the state-of-the-art hospital in San Jose where expats went, not the hospitals covered by CR’s single payer.

131
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:23:15pm

re: #129 Blind Frog Belly White

Up this dead guys ass.

“Well, I’m dead.”
132
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:23:54pm

re: #92 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

But the ad “McCain has no problem with $142,000 surcharges, but what about you?” might really hit home.

And if he wasn’t 80-something and not planning to run again, he might care about ads. I suspect what he cares about now is backing up his pal Lindsay.

133
William Lewis  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:24:39pm

re: #116 Patricia Kayden

Republicans are cartoonishly evil. So the GOP Louisiana Dude is worried that NY and CA will do the right thing and set up a single payer system so that their folks can get access to affordable healthcare? Really? I cannot even.

Not really in this case - a successful single payer plan in any single state (the way it started in Canada was in Alberta all by itself) would be an existential crisis of the first magnitude for the GOP. It would point out their lies and lead, inevitably, to a national single payer plan and the demise of the GOP as a political power. Of course they’re terrified of the prospect.

134
goddamnedfrank  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:25:28pm
135
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:25:40pm

re: #105 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I would point out that there are a few things on that list that are treated as a “pre-existing condition” that only seem to count when receiving active treatment. I mean, I grant you that pretty much all humans will end up with a pre-existing condition at some point because we exist, but I doubt they’re charging women an extra $17k a year after they’re no longer pregnant. (Although I’m sure they would if they could.)

You are young enough to not have lived through the times when no matter what physical ailment/complaint a woman had, pregnancy was always the very first thing assumed no matter the woman’s age. And until a pregnancy could be ruled out, no other medical procedures/treatment could begin.

And I mean NO MATTER HER AGE.

136
Jenner7  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:26:13pm

So, today we had to deal with:

Graham-Cassidy death bill.

Media making up a Hillary quote for a story.

Idiot Berners who think Pelosi is President.

Oh, and Trump wanting a military parade…cause that’s not unusual at all.

It’s only Monday.

137
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:26:42pm

re: #131 nines09

Only thing I can say about the Reagan presidency is what Christopher Hitchens said about Jerry Falwell’s passing.

Paraphrasing here:

“If you gave the man an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox.”

138
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:27:14pm

re: #133 William Lewis

Why do you assume that if a few blue states enact single payer, it would lead to all states (including hardcore red ones like those in the South) enacting single payer? I don’t really see that happening.

139
whitebeach  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:27:43pm

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was born at the Army Base Hospital at Fort Campbell in 1952 and the entire hospital bill was $6 and change.
Granted, it was a military hospital but still…

My dad was stationed in Florida and Mama wasn’t with him because it was expected to be a short duty. She was living in Louisiana with her parents, and my granddad, who had been in the Medical Corps in France and Belgium in WWI had a distrust of the care given in military hospitals. So his baby girl went to a private hospital to have me.

140
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:30:31pm

re: #137 alloutofcrazyhere

Only thing I can say about the Reagan presidency is what Christopher Hitchens said about Jerry Falwell’s passing.

Paraphrasing here:

“If you gave the man an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox.”

Patient Zero in the infection running unchecked in the Republican Party Cult now.
They await the Cowboy. As the Cargo Cult awaited the cargo.
Just think what may have been if the Iranian hostages were rescued, instead of the disaster that followed. Remember, one chopper went down in the OBL raid.

141
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:31:19pm

re: #135 Backwoods_Sleuth

You say that like I still don’t get asked to pee in a cup so they can do a pregnancy test every time I go to the doctor’s.

142
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:32:00pm

re: #112 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

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143
goddamnedfrank  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:32:13pm

This lazy as fuck bullshit headline is like beltway reporter crack.

144
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:33:07pm

re: #111 EPR-radar

Republicans are absolutely a cancer upon the nation. This is the central truth of US politics that cannot be mentioned in the mainstream media.

We have to expel them from public office in 2018 and 2020, tax their fake churches out of existence, deport or imprison their foreign bosses, and reduce their evil racist supporters to poverty and social exile through unemployment and public shaming.

145
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:33:13pm

re: #136 Jenner7

“Idiot Berners who think Pelosi is President.”

You mean the ones who interrupted her press conference to claim that Democrats are deporters? Huge sigh.

146
William Lewis  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:35:36pm

re: #138 Patricia Kayden

Why do you assume that if a few blue states enact single payer, it would lead to all states (including hardcore red ones like those in the South) enacting single payer? I don’t really see that happening.

Business. Especially Big Business. They’d save so much in the states with it that the’ll force it through in every other state and in doing so they’d also walk away from the GOP.

147
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:37:51pm

re: #140 nines09

Just think what may have been if the Iranian hostages were rescued, instead of the disaster that followed. Remember, one chopper went down in the OBL raid.

As you know, there will always be pivotal moments in history.

There’s always the usual hypothetical about time travel in order to stop Hitler from coming to power and maybe avoiding WWII.

When it comes to the middle class in this country, I always thought that Reagan was such a moment. Perhaps go back in time and give him better movie roles so as to distract him from running for the presidency?

148
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:38:20pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

This lazy as fuck bullshit headline is like beltway reporter crack.

[Embedded content]

We know what Fox is going to be all about tonight.

149
Jenner7  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:38:33pm

re: #145 Patricia Kayden

Yup. And that was their goal, because it sure as hell wasn’t to get DACA protections. I mean, they were yelling “shut down ICE!”. That’s not even a thing Pelosi can do. lol

150
meteor  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:38:35pm
151
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:42:24pm

re: #147 alloutofcrazyhere

He sold chickens. As in every pot. Many chickens. Some got many chickens. Most got bones when the rape was complete.

152
William Lewis  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:42:35pm

re: #147 alloutofcrazyhere

As you know, there will always be pivotal moments in history.

There’s always the usual hypothetical about time travel in order to stop Hitler from coming to power and maybe avoiding WWII.

When it comes to the middle class in this country, I always thought that Reagan was such a moment. Perhaps go back in time and give him better movie roles so as to distract him from running for the presidency?

You’d have to go back and keep him from becoming governor so that he’d not understand he can ease his racist fears by legislation (see the Mulford Act). Then in the 70’s he played a economic analyst on right wing radio. Apparently he thought his ideas were real…

153
wrenchwench  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:44:40pm

re: #147 alloutofcrazyhere

When it comes to the middle class in this country, I always thought that Reagan was such a moment. Perhaps go back in time and give him better movie roles so as to distract him from running for the presidency?

I read a book that blamed his election to Gov. in California on Edmund G. ‘Pat’ Brown, Sr., Jerry Brown’s father, for not taking Reagan seriously as a candidate when Pat Brown was the incumbent who lost.

154
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:44:53pm

re: #141 klys (maker of Silmarils)

You say that like I still don’t get asked to pee in a cup so they can do a pregnancy test every time I go to the doctor’s.

and there it is … your constant-always-with-you-for-the-rest-of-your-life pre-existing condition.

155
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:46:16pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

Shiplord!!!
I haz a sad!

156
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:46:52pm

re: #151 nines09

I remember the Air Traffic Control strike. He locked them up. Broke that Union. America cheered. Pivotal moment. That changed the playing field.

157
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:47:32pm

re: #152 William Lewis

Definitely not a fan of Reagan as governor or as president. His policies regarding mental health were terrible.

I still refuse to feel empathy for that man and his Alzheimer’s due to what occurred on his watch.

158
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:47:46pm

Page from 2010:
Cargo Cult Christians.

159
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:48:11pm

re: #152 William Lewis

You’d have to go back and keep him from becoming governor so that he’d not understand he can ease his racist fears by legislation (see the Mulford Act). Then in the 70’s he played a economic analyst on right wing radio. Apparently he thought his ideas were real…

To be fair, though, Reagan didn’t have the empirical evidence against tax cuts increasing tax revenues that both the Reagan and Bush tax cuts provided. Now that we’ve run the experiment twice, however, we know for absolute certain which side of the Laffer Curve we’re on. Hint - not the one the Right always imagines.

160
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:48:50pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

I read a book that blamed his election to Gov. in California on Edmund G. ‘Pat’ Brown, Sr., Jerry Brown’s father, for not taking Reagan seriously as a candidate when Pat Brown was the incumbent who lost.

What? You mean that has happened before?

161
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:48:54pm

So when does Alex Jones join the team at the Today Show ?

162
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:49:04pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

I read a book that blamed his election to Gov. in California on Edmund G. ‘Pat’ Brown, Sr., Jerry Brown’s father, for not taking Reagan seriously as a candidate when Pat Brown was the incumbent who lost.

My dad is a history buff. That was his take on it as well.

163
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:49:19pm

hey klys, saw this on teh twitterz earlier today and thought of you:

164
MsJ  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:49:29pm
165
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:51:28pm

re: #163 Backwoods_Sleuth

I did 13.1 today in just under 2:30. Was actually thinking about your hobbit house while I was at it.

Of course, now I’m exhausted and feeling like shit and trying desperately not to feel completely cynical and hopeless about the next 30+ years of my life, assuming the world makes it that long.

There are times LGF is great for me and there are times it isn’t.

166
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:51:31pm

re: #155 Backwoods_Sleuth

Shiplord!!!
I haz a sad!

edit: OK, Emily Litella moment…never mind!

167
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:51:40pm

re: #156 nines09

I remember the Air Traffic Control strike. He locked them up. Broke that Union. America cheered. Pivotal moment. That changed the playing field.

Seems that the only public sector jobs that are unionized and are also deemed “acceptable” are police unions.

168
TedStriker  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:52:55pm

re: #167 alloutofcrazyhere

Seems that the only public sector jobs that are unionized and are also deemed “acceptable” are police unions.

Until they become politically inconvenient.

169
EPR-radar  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:53:25pm

re: #164 MsJ

Wouldn’t it be interesting if a pure “screw the blue states” health care bill got through the senate only to lose enough GOP House votes from blue states to die.

170
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:54:03pm

re: #167 alloutofcrazyhere

Seems that the only public sector jobs that are unionized and are also deemed “acceptable” are police unions.

Because they’ll never, ever allow a killer cop to get blamed, no matter how egregious.

171
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:54:45pm

re: #168 TedStriker

Until they become inconvenient.

Although, I am not quite sure how that would fly with the whole “law and order” crowd.

172
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:54:58pm

re: #156 nines09

I remember the Air Traffic Control strike. He locked them up. Broke that Union. America cheered. Pivotal moment. That changed the playing field.

Yep, too many people let that one pass right on by back then and had no idea how it would turn against union labor for the future.

Unions were already under a lot of pressure as the U.S. Auto Industry didn’t help as union labor was the scapegoat for crappy cars costing too much, etc. The 70s really made union people to be a big problem for so much. Now we pay.

We do so much damage to ourselves collectively.

173
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:56:42pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

Isn’t it too late for an election challenge anyways? It feels as if the MSM is just trying to work up another frenzy against Secretary Clinton like they did with the email server nonsense.

174
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:56:57pm

re: #164 MsJ

[Embedded content]

Peter King is so full of shit.
Doctors, hospitals, etc in states that embraced ACA did very VERY well.

175
whitebeach  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:57:49pm

re: #142 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

p/59el89WkwXNME38F8HdXsSkzuXazakctAVCKlbPaOvx8Otk7kXrrWdCcxxl/o8gs9GJWLkC+7nHw+VAEdSMNYaVYM5XbjbHBOfzv/bFwKNCj0j8Aeoe7QDMf90TWivxwFHkQtpkk7+HZ2y4oTtiAaECmKvVDvFQek2oJf0Gnu6BFBXqryl1oCs+rI7QE0wckUoNSYWsYG/lCONSs+9lxAF6VqI03aI

176
wrenchwench  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:59:42pm

re: #160 ObserverArt

What? You mean that has happened before?

Reagan was a movie actor, though. Now we got a TV guy. Less good. I mean more bad. Worser.

177
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 3:59:58pm

re: #175 whitebeach

[Embedded content]

04aKuORzPqgzcJ1fN/gWeuOugNqlEUAp

178
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:00:40pm

re: #173 Patricia Kayden

Isn’t it too late for an election challenge anyways? It feels as if the MSM is just trying to work up another frenzy against Secretary Clinton like they did with the email server nonsense.

Ginning up controversy to sell papers get clicks.

Honestly, if we discovered that Russia actually HAD penetrated the electoral system enough to change the results, I think ‘questioning the legitimacy of the election’ is the LEAST we should do.

179
KGxvi  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:01:07pm

re: #173 Patricia Kayden

Isn’t it too late for an election challenge anyways? It feels as if the MSM is just trying to work up another frenzy against Secretary Clinton like they did with the email server nonsense.

Any challenge would have had to been before the electoral college voted, or at the very least before their votes were counted in Congress.

At this point, the only legal means for overturning the election would be impeachment and removal of both Trump and Pence. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could get enough Congressional Republicans on board with impeachment and removal of Trump; I’m not sure they’d be willing to throw Pence under the bus as well. Especially if that means a Democratic Speaker of the House becoming president.

180
KGxvi  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:02:05pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Reagan was a movie actor, though. Now we got a TV guy. Less good. I mean more bad. Worser.

Trump isn’t even an actor, he was a reality TV game show host.

181
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:03:38pm

Drunk on their own evil

Facebook Post

182
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:03:48pm

Whenever you think things can’t get worse,

Laura Ingraham set to join Fox News as prime-time host

latimes.com

183
wrenchwench  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:04:05pm

re: #180 KGxvi

Trump isn’t even an actor, he was a reality TV game show host.

My limited vocabulary gave me ‘TV guy’. That’s the lowest of the low.

184
Charles Johnson  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:04:18pm
185
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:04:46pm

Some of the leeward islands are about to be hit by Maria. The storm is slightly south of where Irma was in this area, but Maria will be turning more north, meaning the VI are definitely in trouble again.

186
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:05:38pm

re: #183 wrenchwench

My limited vocabulary gave me ‘TV guy’. That’s the lowest of the low.

And he never did anything more than say “You’re Fired!”

187
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:06:48pm

re: #178 Blind Frog Belly White

Honestly, if we discovered that Russia actually HAD penetrated the electoral system enough to change the results, I think ‘questioning the legitimacy of the election’ is the LEAST we should do.

I think I am all for sending those particular electronic voting machines, perhaps all, straight into the sun at this point. Things can be done correctly, but the whole system is such a disjointed mess at even the best of times. We might as well just draw straws.

Just nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

188
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:07:27pm

re: #165 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I did 13.1 today in just under 2:30. Was actually thinking about your hobbit house while I was at it.

Of course, now I’m exhausted and feeling like shit and trying desperately not to feel completely cynical and hopeless about the next 30+ years of my life, assuming the world makes it that long.

There are times LGF is great for me and there are times it isn’t.

Is it LGF klys?

It all still exists whether you read here or not.

We are all too aware. Here we can cope with it due to sharing the thoughts of others and feeling like we are not alone with those thoughts.

189
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:08:02pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And it was after shaking her hand…then he pushed her and told her to go sit down.

190
wrenchwench  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:08:39pm

re: #186 Backwoods_Sleuth

And he never did anything more than say “You’re Fired!”

He probably hears it said to him in his dreams.

191
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:09:02pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Reagan was a movie actor, though. Now we got a TV guy. Less good. I mean more bad. Worser.

Death Valley Days hosted by Ronald Reagan and also starring in….

Then this gem…..

Ronald Reagan sells Baraxo Soap - Old Commercial

192
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:09:22pm

re: #189 Backwoods_Sleuth

And it was after shaking her hand…then he pushed her and told her to go sit down.

YouTube

193
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:09:58pm

re: #188 ObserverArt

Is it LGF klys?

It all still exists whether you read here or not.

We are all too aware. Here we can cope with it due to sharing the thoughts of others and feeling like we are not alone with those thoughts.

And then we can even encourage ourselves to actually fucking do something about it, outside, where there’s no air conditioning.

194
The Ghost of a Flea  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:10:07pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Reagan was a movie actor, though. Now we got a TV guy. Less good. I mean more bad. Worser.

Reality TV guy

195
jeffreyw  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:11:09pm
196
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:11:41pm

re: #191 nines09

Death Valley Days hosted by Ronald Reagan and also starring in….

Then this gem…..

[Embedded content]

His movies were so meh that I mostly remember him hawking GE refrigerators on B&W TV.

197
wrenchwench  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:12:05pm

re: #191 nines09

Death Valley Days hosted by Ronald Reagan and also starring in….

Then this gem…..

[Embedded content]

20 mule team Borax. Those were the days.

198
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:12:31pm

Dominica about to be hit by a very strong Maria:

Image: rb0-lalo.gif

199
Kragar  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:13:34pm
200
fern01  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:14:29pm

re: #12 JordanRules

She also didn’t say to contest it. She said the opposite.

The media is so foul in this.

This is how the media has reported on Hillary Clinton since 1993 - and probably before that - but I don’t recall.

201
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:14:37pm

So is this the reality of the Trump administration? Having to fight a new bullshit repeal bill every few months?

202
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:14:40pm

re: #199 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Baby steps.

203
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:16:08pm

re: #167 alloutofcrazyhere

Seems that the only public sector jobs that are unionized and are also deemed “acceptable” are police unions.

And firefighters.

204
lawhawk  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:16:34pm

Manafort’s in a vice grip.

205
Kragar  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:16:40pm

Gus is in a bad place right now

206
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:16:51pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

20 mule team Borax. Those were the days.

You can recapture those faraway and long ago days….

iffin i cud spelts

207
Kragar  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:17:30pm
208
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:17:40pm

re: #206 nines09

You can recapture those faraway amd longago days….

Actually built the freakn’ wagon train model.

209
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:17:50pm

re: #198 freetoken

Dominica about to be hit by a very strong Maria:

Image: rb0-lalo.gif

yep, and this really sucks:

210
petesh  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:18:29pm

re: #200 fern01

This is how the media has reported on Hillary Clinton since 1993 - and probably before that - but I don’t recall.

Definitely since early 1992. I don’t think the national media was on her trail before then but the Arkansas papers absolutely were. Bill got defeated in his first re-election campaign, and once consequence was that Hillary Rodham added his last name. I think the dots to be connected are pretty obvious there.

211
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:18:50pm

re: #185 freetoken

Some of the leeward islands are about to be hit by Maria. The storm is slightly south of where Irma was in this area, but Maria will be turning more north, meaning the VI are definitely in trouble again.

Maybe we should call them something besides Virgin Islands because they’ve been fucked a few times this hurricane season.

212
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:21:10pm

re: #210 petesh

Definitely since early 1992. I don’t think the national media was on her trail before then but the Arkansas papers absolutely were. Bill got defeated in his first re-election campaign, and once consequence was that Hillary Rodham added his last name. I think the dots to be connected are pretty obvious there.

Later, much of the press was the result of nutcase Mellon-Scaife. He paid for journalist/investigators and even bought his own PGH paper to feed his anti-Clinton mania.

213
Ace Rothstein  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:22:43pm

re: #207 Kragar

$50 says the wingnuts will say Obama personally authorized the wiretaps.

214
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:23:57pm

re: #213 Ace Rothstein

$50 says the wingnuts will say Obama personally authorized the wiretaps.

Question is, how popular is Manafort, “a person who worked briefly, very briefly for the campaign’ among the Trump base?

215
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:24:19pm

re: #203 sagehen

Guess the difference between the two professions is that everyone is universally happy to see a firefighter running in your direction, a police officer, not so much.

216
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:24:43pm

re: #205 Kragar

Gus is in a bad place right now

[Embedded content]

Damn. I hope he can be helped.

217
Ace Rothstein  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:25:08pm

re: #214 Blind Frog Belly White

Question is, how popular is Manafort, “a person who worked briefly, very briefly for the campaign’ among the Trump base?

So briefly, you’ll get tired of all the briefly.

218
BeachDem  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:27:37pm

re: #152 William Lewis

You’d have to go back and keep him from becoming governor so that he’d not understand he can ease his racist fears by legislation (see the Mulford Act). Then in the 70’s he played a economic analyst on right wing radio. Apparently he thought his ideas were real…

James Garner said it best

219
alloutofcrazyhere  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:29:49pm

re: #218 BeachDem

Reminds me of the boss where you have to convince him/her that your ideas are actually his/hers, or the right thing(s) won’t get done.

220
HappyWarrior  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:29:55pm

re: #218 BeachDem

James Garner said it best

[Embedded content]

Great actor. Loved him in the Great Escape.

221
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:32:00pm

re: #218 BeachDem

James Garner said it best

[Embedded content]

Uh oh!

It’s the dreaded it’s instead of its!

What is it with this?

222
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:32:48pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

Zero chemistry and he always appears to be either bullying or ignoring her.

223
Skip Intro  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:33:27pm
224
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:38:14pm

Maria became very strong in a very short time:

225
MsJ  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:40:23pm

re: #174 Backwoods_Sleuth

Peter King is so full of shit.
Doctors, hospitals, etc in states that embraced ACA did very VERY well.

They have to keep up the bullshit somehow. He might vote for it and he might not. But he’s never going to say “PSYCH! I lied to you for seven years, no harm no foul, right?”

226
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:43:30pm

Gov. Scott Walker signs $3 billion Wisconsin Foxconn bill and promises spring groundbreaking

Gov. Scott Walker on Monday approved up to $3 billion in subsidies for a Racine County flat-screen plant, binding the state’s economic hopes and his own political future to the investment proposed by an Asian electronics giant.

The signing of the legislation at Gateway Technical College clears the way for the Walker administration and Foxconn Technology Group of Taiwan to ink a final contract in the coming days, announce the chosen site for the plant soon and break ground there by spring.

“We’re thrilled that these are going to be the first of its kind made in America,” Walker told a crowd at Gateway on Monday. “And not only will these LCD displays be made in America, they’ll be made proudly right here in the state of Wisconsin.”

It’s still unknown how much Racine County taxpayers will have to spend to provide the infrastructure and services needed for the plant.

But the state deal would pay up to $2.85 billion in cash to the company over 15 years to offset 17% of its qualifying payroll costs as well as 15% of the capital costs of constructing an up to $10 billion factory that could employ as many as 13,000 people.

227
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:44:29pm

re: #226 Amory Blaine

…If Foxconn follows through with its commitments, then the state payments would be the largest incentive package for a foreign company in U.S. history.

Walker on Monday used his powerful partial veto pen on the measure to eliminate legislative oversight of $250 million in borrowing to advance work on the long-delayed I-94 north-south project, which will help to serve the factory. Walker also scaled back provisions in the measure to allow towns involved in the deal to convert to villages to avoid being annexed by larger communities.

228
retired cynic  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:44:49pm

re: #200 fern01

This is how the media has reported on Hillary Clinton since 1993 - and probably before that - but I don’t recall.

In Arkansas, yes they did!

229
lawhawk  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:45:34pm

Warrants? Yeah, they had warrants. They had wiretaps.

The crossed the T’s and dotted the i’s. Why? Because when you’re at this level, you don’t leave anything to chance.

Oh, and Trump may see this and tip his own hand with a pardon opportunity for Flynn, Manafort, and all the rest. Yeah, Trump would go there.

Note too that there’s a likelihood that the indictment will not come from Mueller, but from Schneiderman’s office. Why? Because it becomes pardon-proof.

230
calochortus  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:46:40pm

re: #201 Eclectic Cyborg

So is this the reality of the Trump administration? Having to fight a new bullshit repeal bill every few months?

Nope. As I understand it, they only have until the end of the month to repeal under reconciliation. After that, they need 60 votes to pass.

231
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:46:57pm

re: #224 freetoken

Maria became very strong in a very short time:

[Embedded content]

dammit

232
retired cynic  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:47:05pm

re: #205 Kragar

Gus is in a bad place right now

[Embedded content]

Anything we can do?

233
Ace Rothstein  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:47:17pm

re: #228 retired cynic

In Arkansas, yes they did!

I remember the American Spectator ran some story back in the day of how Hillary was screwing Vince Foster. One of the “quotes” in the story was some dinner party where Hillary “cuddled up to Foster cooing ‘Oooooooh Vince…’”

I shit you not.

234
Kragar  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:51:59pm

re: #232 retired cynic

Contact via twitter and see.

235
petesh  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:52:52pm

I listened to part of the Fresh Air interview with HRC, including the part talking about invalidating the election, and she said nothing wrong. Nothing! Yes, she’d like to; yes, some legal experts are discussing the possibility “but I think they’re wrong.” She mentioned the Kenyan election overturn, noting that Cambridge Analytica was involved in that too, and also in Brexit, but was quite clear that we have no such mechanism.

Also, she was smart and when possible funny, as usual. I like her more and more; I haven’t finished her book yet, but the author is going well.

236
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:57:00pm

Another manufactured “public” event at a corporation.

Speaker Paul Ryan talks taxes at Harley-Davidson

“We are taxing American manufacturers, American businesses and American jobs at a much, much, much higher tax rate than what we our foreign competitors (FTFY) are taxing theirs, and as a result American businesses and American jobs are being put at a big competitive disadvantage,” Ryan said. “Tax reform can fix that. Tax reform can stop punishing companies for making things in America and selling them overseas.”

He said Republican leaders would lay out a framework next week for tax overhaul plans.

237
sagehen  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:57:18pm

re: #226 Amory Blaine

Gov. Scott Walker signs $3 billion Wisconsin Foxconn bill and promises spring groundbreaking

But the state deal would pay up to $2.85 billion in cash to the company over 15 years to offset 17% of its qualifying payroll costs as well as 15% of the capital costs of constructing an up to $10 billion factory that could employ as many as 13,000 people.

so… $219,000 per job created (if they hire the full “up to” number)

What a bargain

238
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 4:58:42pm

re: #237 sagehen

Republican math strikes again.

239
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:02:20pm

So hurricane Maria makes it to Cat 5. I believe this is only the 6th year on record with two such storms in the Atlantic.

The previous year would have been 2005, the year of Katrina.

240
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:04:09pm

re: #239 freetoken

So hurricane Maria makes it to Cat 5. I believe this is only the 6th year on record with two such storms in the Atlantic.

The previous year would have been 2005, the year of Katrina.

sigh…I’m not gonna see MrBWS for weeks…

241
lawhawk  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:04:09pm

re: #226 Amory Blaine

Corporate welfare. Billions for a company that will stick around only long enough to get the money and move on.

And the evidence all shows that the state will never end up breaking even.

242
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:06:50pm

This spewed garbage is representative of Wisconsin conservatives. Serious thinkers.


Nicholson: We need conservative health care solutions

Families across Wisconsin are reeling from high premiums, and insurers leaving the market because of Obamacare, and a few days ago, the national debt surpassed an almost unimaginable $20 trillion.

In response, U.S. Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) announced she is supporting the proposal from Democratic Socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders to institute a government-run, single-payer health care plan that would cost taxpayers trillions of dollars more.

Bipartisan estimates of a similar plan proposed by Sanders last year showed a cost of $25 trillion over a decade, increasing taxes by $11 trillion and adding $14 trillion to the national debt. This Baldwin-Sanders approach to health care would dramatically increase taxes on every American while also skyrocketing our national debt by nearly 70%.

That’s socialism at work. It’s unconscionable — and frankly, it’s dangerous. If you want to see an example of how this ends, take a look at the food rationing taking place in socialist Venezuela today.

243
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:08:21pm

…In Wisconsin, we’ve seen the dangers of government-run health care. And nobody should know that better than Senator Baldwin.

Baldwin’s office willfully ignored severe problems at the government-run Tomah Veterans Administration hospital when a whistle-blower directly brought her evidence of deadly overmedication.

Now Baldwin wants all of us at her mercy in a similar government-run system. Put simply, we cannot trust politicians and government bureaucrats to run our health-care system. The results are devastating.

Obamacare is collapsing, but the right path forward isn’t more government involvement, more spending, and more debt

244
Patricia Kayden  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:10:05pm

re: #242 Amory Blaine

I assume Senator Sanders’ proposal is no different than the healthcare system in Canada or the U.K. But go ahead and be dramatic, Mr. Republican.

245
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:13:19pm
246
lawhawk  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:17:00pm

The only way this would make me happier is if he was remanded into custody after having been indicted on multiple state and federal charges.

247
danarchy  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:19:16pm

re: #244 Patricia Kayden

I assume Senator Sanders’ proposal is no different than the healthcare system in Canada or the U.K. But go ahead and be dramatic, Mr. Republican.

Well no, maybe that is the goal, but all the current bill does is expands medicare to all without addressing cost or additional revenue. Sanders Bill is paid for with rainbows and unicorn farts. Any real plan would need to address revenue and cost controls.

248
meteor  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:20:48pm
249
nines09  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:21:12pm

re: #246 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

The only way this would make me happier is if he was remanded into custody after having been indicted on multiple state and federal charges.

Can there be a horrible camping/hunting/scope sighting accident in his future or…Let me word this differently…..there are a lot of dead Russians lying about….But………..Ok. He’s good…

250
teleskiguy  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:21:16pm
251
Amory Blaine  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:23:27pm

A 30 year commitment to the production of LCD panels seems kind of risky for Wisconsin.

252
calochortus  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:23:40pm

A3AbhsoNX0q6zor9DkaOmeAX4bhRzxWRn83W6cJpXRmBkx6/ujiX8SV5OX0zm1WuMyaQPsNRYVPm40Ai0odPoWKnuixBDAVQxRqTQtj6RcWOUdcD+iLs+5zhpkDQ+FFqS+XeVzLu92feTk2MoFeAR3yNhrIGIGuFZensS4u4z/P9vZjsX0IrXZ+HpPjZ+61k/RZxywL4D1JDbXfOVZHJORkaw9e3BISGR5TGsV6GOaZU+uSPpxFxHd6Qw+HXbksxGkcHt8B9C1PnsLdhNfykngBiBceqROtvKUFvvDBiksj48pyevO6lSY6Tl6XTpE/k0/Xv724JSiMYqbI+Q4vzc/86WouJmxFEenLve0a/6KbwYIjHqgck7pKMOu0j2v9vNZ3011Qpf9VgZ1byA9Mcy9z9VlR2pg4InlaicTxsCnCqJPsRgrqTDGxwF3LnSNqnhJuEtagzVjprS38sl7AmQ1ul0E2I4XL/QhZWC2pahZslCZaWl6OIrIx9iB0XoDoE/bZUpKA95dMbDsEL83D2mkkOLPM3UUsSv0W5zgvZBad9iId/XrxEBI/FuFMF8xUNQKk7ESmg+0UO7JAV9BKCtePg2sedvf9YbW7aED1LEDeXVB8hgC7QE3erIN1OoBtBrmyTpuA0HHJrRwEwFmrtZjxObMYRACf4WJh1PUcBhDXfq6U4Bu/CdlTm1+033n8H+ZdH/dXpdsaTQZLhjJq4wv800YnGZ62KBiMaqCz1JIU3pru2Z87dBke4mpaQMznKdlPgh+GBHPazIRSX0tS9xJSxiTUbM9brWxT/BA9OKBlQZv/CtRxkhTiLwv5r5B0Dtuoghkwr7/vjSJo8SOCZFeJiQ5zPcTiab6oEojbONNpG7H+1xz0XjrsCWcMoOS795hkwHLNaBTWijkE5x8wtT7o9m90lK0xli8DxCSbzRls6dMCqFLs6JbT0iftJao298nYgqiU7oQs=

253
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:23:54pm

re: #246 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

The only way this would make me happier is if he was remanded into custody after having been indicted on multiple state and federal charges.

All those official witnesses….

254
Targetpractice  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:25:57pm

re: #250 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

LIES! We all know the Earth is flat!

255
teleskiguy  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:27:20pm

re: #254 Targetpractice

LIES! We all know the Earth is flat!

256
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:31:23pm

Details on how the FISA process works.

257
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:32:19pm

Ominous:

258
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:35:16pm

re: #205 Kragar

Gus is in a bad place right now

[Embedded content]

I never know what to say in a case like this. :(

I hope he gets help.

259
Jay C  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:37:25pm

re: #251 Amory Blaine

A 30 year commitment to the production of LCD panels seems kind of risky for Wisconsin.

Not to mention that while the State seems to have agreed (i.e. committed itself) to pay huges sums as a bribe incentive to get this deal, a lot of what has been promoted as Foxconn’s “commitment” to the Wisconsin plant sounds suspiciously conditional: “up to” $10B ; “as many as” 13,000 jobs, etc….

260
freetoken  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:38:47pm

Making landfall now:

meteo.fr

261
FormerDirtDart  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:39:44pm
262
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:39:51pm
263
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:44:16pm

re: #262 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Nigel Tufnel: What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.

264
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:45:01pm

re: #257 freetoken

It’s not nice to screw with Mother Natures air.

265
retired cynic  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:45:33pm

re: #234 Kragar

Contact via twitter and see.

I’m not on twitter. If anyone finds out, can you post here, perhaps privately?

266
ObserverArt  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:48:05pm

Charles, if you are out there…this bit Ari Melber did on The Emmy’s and Spicer might warm your heart a bit. His two panelists are in agreement with you too.

I’m liking Melber. He seems to have his head on straight and he does things in a factual way. Even saying from time to time, we can’t have alternate and various versions of facts in a functioning democracy.

Iframe

267
JordanRules  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:52:03pm

Jeez. Any more shoes to drop here?

268
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:53:57pm

re: #267 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Jeez. Any more shoes to drop here?

But LESS regulation is what we need, right?

*spit*

269
PhillyPretzel  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:55:41pm

re: #267 JordanRules

This is one of the reasons why I have Life Lock. I am convinced that anyone at anytime can be hacked.

270
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 18, 2017 • 5:58:29pm

re: #267 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Jeez. Any more shoes to drop here?

I found this almost empty shoe store.

271
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:00:10pm

re: #269 PhillyPretzel

This is one of the reasons why I have Life Lock. I am convinced that anyone at anytime can be hacked.

That was before. Now we know we all have been

272
Belafon  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:02:25pm

re: #237 sagehen

so… $219,000 per job created (if they hire the full “up to” number)

What a bargain

Over 15 years. Comes out to $14K per person per year.

273
Stanley Sea  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:04:32pm

re: #262 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sigh, I had a great time in Martinique years ago.

274
Decatur Deb  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:10:51pm

re: #272 Belafon

Over 15 years. Comes out to $14K per person per year.

Consider Foxconn’s needs. Anti-suicide netting for the factory will be much more expensive than in China.

275
De Kolta Chair  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:21:39pm

re: #267 JordanRules

Jeez. Any more shoes to drop here?

According to an article at FastCompany.com, and paraphrased on Equifax’s Wikipedia page, Equifax has been “the subject of more than 57,000 consumer complaints to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau from October 2012 to September 17, 2017, with most complaints relating to incomplete, inaccurate, outdated, or misattributed information held by the company.”

But hey, they’ve only been in business since 1899, so cut ‘em some slack, as I’m sure the Trump administration will.

276
mmmirele  Sep 18, 2017 • 6:56:14pm

re: #267 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Jeez. Any more shoes to drop here?

Feels like working at my employer, the evil too big to fail bank, aka the stagecoach and horsies. Except in this case, it looks like technology was the problem, not banking policy.

277
Dave In Austin  Sep 19, 2017 • 6:47:58am

Alas! Today is Talk Like a Pirate day. Here is some assistance for yer endeavor.

speakpirate.com

Arrgh!!

278
pyite  Sep 19, 2017 • 9:47:56am

Give the poor guy a break. The level of fake outrage is ridiculous.

He has apologized credibly for his first day’s performance, and he was a complete failure at the most high-profile job he has ever had. He has suffered enough already.


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