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670 comments

1
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 19, 2017 • 7:32:44pm

Idea for a cartoon: Reagan and Trump standing on a bridge. Trump is passing a can to Reagan and saying “Hold mah beer” as he pisses off the bridge onto an encampment of downtrodden former middle class folk below. Caption says, “trickle down economics.”

3
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 7:48:01pm
4
ObserverArt  Nov 19, 2017 • 7:49:17pm

Time to go!

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5
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 19, 2017 • 7:50:30pm

re: #4 ObserverArt

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6
HappyWarrior  Nov 19, 2017 • 7:53:31pm

re: #4 ObserverArt

Time to go!

[Embedded content]

8ogGijYT5nXhO9FtAWQkBA==

8
meteor  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:09:37pm
9
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:25:49pm

Trolling, trolling, trolling….

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10
ObserverArt  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:30:45pm

Number Two.

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11
retired cynic  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:32:15pm

Good job!

12
allegro  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:34:01pm

Suggestion… I get millions! You pay for it!

13
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:37:46pm

I’ve never seen such a target-rich environment….

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14
Kragar  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:37:53pm
15
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:38:58pm

re: #10 ObserverArt

Number Two.

[Embedded content]

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16
ObserverArt  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:40:33pm

re: #13 The Major

I’ve never seen such a target-rich environment….

[Embedded content]

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17
Kilroy was here  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:40:50pm

re: #13 The Major

q264KH7YRLkTSGoHM7lBO2UfUxqMe2K67auLgBf/ru2GxLSJ7Q+uDbfrbY7EGP7qCVPem0EdDC0egg/34HjcpQ==

18
nines09  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:43:32pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson
Yes he can.
I’ve been following his gear reviews for years. Great stuff.

19
ObserverArt  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:43:46pm

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20
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:44:27pm
21
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:46:19pm

re: #19 ObserverArt

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22
The Major  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:57:00pm

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23
jaunte  Nov 19, 2017 • 8:57:40pm

“When you incentivize illegal immigration, you incentivize a lot of bad things,” Shortey told NBC affiliate 4-KFOR. “There’s a trail of death from Honduras to the United States of America, and the families are giving their children and others over to coyotes and to human traffickers.”

Republican businessmen hate competition.

24
ObserverArt  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:02:37pm

re: #22 The Major

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25
CleverToad  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:06:22pm

re: #10 ObserverArt

pCVNRXUJGEaWbOsCUB77OtcODd3UXFYZuObQ+nu4bD63I2fo9r2L9g==

26
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:07:30pm

re: #24 ObserverArt

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27
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:11:15pm

Good show, ObserverArt!

28
jaunte  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:20:44pm

Stonekettle has opened up a whale of a hole into an alternate dimension.

29
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:25:10pm

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30
jaunte  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:27:05pm

re: #29 teleskiguy

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31
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:28:38pm

re: #30 jaunte

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32
sagehen  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:31:13pm

re: #14 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Demand they share?

33
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:36:49pm

Charles Manson died.

34
jaunte  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:38:17pm
35
mmmirele  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:40:24pm

re: #33 teleskiguy

Charles Manson died.

Why did he have to live longer than my dad (they were born the same year)?

Also, Charlie Manson was one of the boogeymen of my childhood, growing up in California. The Manson Family and the Symbionese Liberation Army.

36
Cheechako  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:48:49pm
37
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:49:47pm

re: #35 mmmirele

Why did he have to live longer than my dad (they were born the same year)?

Also, Charlie Manson was one of the boogeymen of my childhood, growing up in California. The Manson Family and the Symbionese Liberation Army.

I remember the whole Patty Hearst fiasco. Remember police in Pittsburgh were on alert because she was allegedly spotted near a bank downtown. Then there was a raid in Oberlin Ohio where the SLA allegedly were hiding out. We even had alerts going on at the Pitt Campus…

38
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 9:55:27pm

Robert Mugabe is still alive.

39
DodgerFan1988  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:01:39pm

re: #33 teleskiguy

Charles Manson died.

Good riddance.

40
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:03:25pm

Meanwhile in Colorado, we’re all skiing on the white ribbon of death.

41
DodgerFan1988  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:07:21pm

re: #33 teleskiguy

Charles Manson died.

The Alt-Right and White Nationalists are carrying on Manson’s legacy of “Helter Skelter,” of starting a race war in which whites will come out on top.

42
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:09:23pm
43
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:09:57pm

Oh no! That evil cult leader hasn’t died after all: Jim Bakker is still very much alive.
On the other hand, Charles Manson did check out so it isn’t a complete bust.

44
Dave In Austin  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:16:53pm

re: #33 teleskiguy

Charles Manson died.

Helter Skelter…..

45
Dave In Austin  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:26:44pm
46
goddamnedfrank  Nov 19, 2017 • 10:36:10pm

re: #45 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

This is no way that’s an accident.

47
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 11:23:35pm

Always sweet to see Josh Homme show up on the front page of LGF.

His ‘The Desert Sessions’ project yielded some really odd, beautiful music.

48
teleskiguy  Nov 19, 2017 • 11:37:12pm

Leave him in Death Valley for the buzzards.

49
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 19, 2017 • 11:58:44pm

re: #48 teleskiguy

The Latest: Plans for Manson’s remains “undetermined.”

Leave him in Death Valley for the buzzards.

Burial at sea so his grave does not turn into a cult pilgrimage site…

50
dell*nix  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:03:01am

re: #4 ObserverArt Posted to my FB page.

51
Dave In Austin  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:09:13am

re: #49 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Bury it on prison grounds. unmarked

52
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:07:49am

re: #51 Dave In Austin

Bury it on prison grounds in a landfill. unmarked

53
Dave In Austin  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:47:46am
54
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:09:20am

re: #53 Dave In Austin

Getting out of mom’s basement once in a while might improve their dating chances, if they skip the onion/garlic tonics a few weeks ahead.

55
freetoken  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:22:07am
56
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:23:03am

re: #54 wheat-dogg

Getting out of mom’s basement once in a while might improve their dating chances, if they skip the onion/garlic tonics a few weeks ahead.

these guys only dating chances involve rape

57
Patricia Kayden  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:33:03am

re: #34 jaunte

Dang. The lying is so strong with everyone connected to this regime. It’s fricking unbelievable.

58
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:36:14am

Last night, I listened to a Stanley Clarke concert with this amazing Japanese pianist, Hiromi Uehara, as a featured artist. So, today I’ve been listening to Hiromi concerts. Just wow.

Apparently, she was “discovered” by Chick Corea, who asked her to play with him.

Hiromi The Trio Project - Estival Jazz Lugano 2011

59
Pineapple Pizzagate  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:18:15am

re: #43 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Oh no! That evil cult leader hasn’t died after all: Jim Bakker is still very much alive.
On the other hand, Charles Manson did check out so it isn’t a complete bust.

Manson was the better singer of the two.

60
meteor  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:32:35am

re: #53 Dave In Austin

Roflmao

Also, yay, Manson died.

Is Vincent Bugliosi still alive? If he is, I wonder if he’ll release a statement.

61
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:37:33am

re: #60 meteor

Roflmao

Also, yay, Manson died.

Is Vincent Bugliosi still alive? If he is, I wonder if he’ll release a statement.

Regrettably, he died in 2015. Vincent Bugliosi

62
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:40:56am

Bugliosi set his sights on some really big mass murder game late in his life.

The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder is a 2008 book by former prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi. It argues that George W. Bush took the United States into the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses and should be tried for murder for the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq.

63
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:41:31am

re: #33 teleskiguy

Charles Manson died.

Proof life without parole works.

64
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:46:58am

it’s awake and still a moron:

65
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:48:58am

re: #63 William Lewis

Proof life without parole works.

He can start his second life sentence now (9 altogether, to run consecutively).

66
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:52:56am

The Daily News does some editorializing on the front page.

Facebook Post

67
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:58:48am
68
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 4:59:52am
69
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:01:03am

Happy Monday everyone. Donald Trump’s turned his attention on a different black man, Marshawn Lynch, this morning, following a Fox&Friends segment.

70
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:01:16am

re: #19 ObserverArt

***********************
IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE
***********************

idFSCXbm+DxgYbF8xbDEtwYvDI7LfF/PB8oE/TK7nP9pMF/J5SQjHWV1vl5Hcb7MGCVuMSUdeaeQPUpi0lxJ8zmmkDnxeNn4qOxKoypJyDicZgSos6tbWQlFU9zXd2lN77dx78Y7RHK/QDl9nz3gjN+nVgAYUBNwoMQaCGQnRZbhzUe3Ky/EHdxGC5WAgA+KLZWdoQZPF6Ej7tblFNRhw5jUCxBcpFfpdGWKbQjlyXuZBG1XrZnmUQ+wLOn6LjIV

71
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:02:48am

re: #67 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“We want the votes in the Senate to get this tax bill through.”

Then she slams Al Franken and wonders why he’s still in the Senate.

Nothing to see here folks. No shenanigans at all.

72
jeffreyw  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:06:32am

Imgur


Good morning!

73
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:07:16am

As an aside

We were doing “Roy Moore songs” the other day
This just came to me in a flash and I don’t think I saw it then

The Supremes: “Baby Love”

Back later

74
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:08:07am

25 years. It was built in the 90s, during the Clinton Administration. Its a modern fucking building. Hell, they probably still have 5 years of payments left on the damn mortgage, and they’re blowing it up to build a new one? Someone should ask Georgia taxpayers how long they expect the new stadium to last.

75
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:10:06am

re: #15 Joe Bacon 🌹

[Embedded content]

oZ+/FxQ1eJFgAQyfxuQa89mCDsgLxbVA33n0fOJHrONM7wEgDG525eWBXz2GHQP9kgBBa95dDAzCWP6kiG8weeU1Bv7Z4bpf

76
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:10:45am
77
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:11:31am

re: #13 The Major

I’ve never seen such a target-rich environment….

[Embedded content]

e2m34iS4ZCc8C/JdaVKFUdCVKOqeSB9YfRL13WXGjqaGV4BoAYNjxr/Jd/ohTW0O

78
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:12:49am

re: #53 Dave In Austin

OMFG LOL!

79
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:21:10am

re: #48 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Leave him in Death Valley for the buzzards.

Billy Joel was right when he was talking to Virginia.

80
bill d. (b.d.)  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:21:43am

re: #74 darthstar

25 years. It was built in the 90s, during the Clinton Administration. Its a modern fucking building. Hell, they probably still have 5 years of payments left on the damn mortgage, and they’re blowing it up to build a new one? Someone should ask Georgia taxpayers how long they expect the new stadium to last.

[Embedded content]

They should have named it after Robert E. Lee if they wanted it to be there forever…

//

81
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:25:04am

re: #53 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

What this thread tells me is two things:

1. There are awful lot of gullible fucking idiots at 4Chan (oh wait, I already knew that…)

2. These “alpha males” are realizing they’re not running a goddamn thing and the “solution” is raising their testosterone levels.

82
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:38:05am

You know for someone who insists football ratings are down, Trump sure seems to watch a lot of it or at least get info from someone who does. A president should not be going after a private citizen like this. He’s free to disagree with what Lynch did but using his bully pulpit to call out individual citizens by name is really messed up.

83
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:38:35am

re: #74 darthstar

I remember when Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium was built in 1971 and they said it would last 50 years.

Gets torn down in the 90s and replaced with two new stadiums…

84
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:41:54am

Some fresh Tom Tomorrow!!!

85
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:42:01am

re: #83 Joe Bacon 🌹

I remember when Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium was built in 1971 and they said it would last 50 years.

Gets torn down in the 90s and replaced with two new stadiums…

The worst I’ve seen is the Braves and Turner Field. Built on 20 years ago. Braves already want a new stadium.

86
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:42:48am

re: #83 Joe Bacon 🌹

I remember when Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium was built in 1971 and they said it would last 50 years.

Gets torn down in the 90s and replaced with two new stadiums…

I suspect stadium construction is how a lot of owners pay themselves back for owning the team.

87
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:43:51am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

The worst I’ve seen is the Braves and Turner Field. Built on 20 years ago. Braves already want a new stadium.

Didn’t they just get a new stadium this year?

88
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:43:59am

re: #86 darthstar

I suspect stadium construction is how a lot of owners pay themselves back for owning the team.

And sticking taxpayers with the bill.

After all, Rome must have its gladiators even when they wind up brain damaged…

89
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:46:17am

re: #87 darthstar

Didn’t they just get a new stadium this year?

Was that announced? I don’t watch the NL much.

90
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:46:53am

I love sports but the way teams use taxpayers is awful.

91
bill d. (b.d.)  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:47:36am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

The worst I’ve seen is the Braves and Turner Field. Built on 20 years ago. Braves already want a new stadium.

They’re going to get rid of The Ballpark in Arlington that was built in 1994.
They were shocked to find out that it gets hot in North Texas in the summer and now want a retractable roof.

I blame W on that one, he was in charge of the Rangers at that point and claimed that baseball was meant to be played outside… dumbass.

92
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:48:33am

re: #91 bill d. (b.d.)

They’re going to get rid of The Ballpark in Arlington that was built in 1994.
They were shocked to find out that it gets hot in North Texas in the summer and now want a retractable roof.

I blame W on that one, he was in charge of the Rangers at that point and claimed that baseball was meant to be played outside… dumbass.

Yeah I heard about that too. Gah.

93
freetoken  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:48:40am

Spanos took the Chargers out of San Diego this year after he didn’t get his new stadium after which he lusted.

Doesn’t bother me one bit that they left. Good riddance I say.

94
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:55:03am

re: #67 Backwoods_Sleuth

Values Voters.

/

95
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:55:59am
96
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:56:52am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

You know for someone who insists football ratings are down, Trump sure seems to watch a lot of it or at least get info from someone who does. A president should not be going after a private citizen like this. He’s free to disagree with what Lynch did but using his bully pulpit to call out individual citizens by name is really messed up.

Bolded for how did we get to where this needs to be said out loud

97
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 5:56:55am

Well the detestable cult leader and murderous Charles Manson is finally dead, dead, dead. latimes.com

98
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:02:56am

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Backwoods sloth?
(C’mon no one thought of that?)

99
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:04:09am
100
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:04:23am

re: #96 dangerman

Bolded for how did we get to where this needs to be said out loud

“Economic anxiety” aka Wingnuttia who don’t like being called out on their shit.

101
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:04:53am

re: #89 HappyWarrior

Was that announced? I don’t watch the NL much.

They were playing in it. Sun Trust Park.

102
Amory Blaine  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:08:32am

Comment on a NYT article:

SocratesDowntown Verona NJ
Liberals don’t “believe in comprehensive sex education and reliable birth control”; they know it and practice it.

As opposed to biblically-concussed conservatives, who ‘believe’ the Bible is the ‘word of God’, who believe that pre-marital sex is ‘sinful’, who refuse to fully acknowledge the reality of scientific evolution, who finance ‘abstinence’ ignorance and under-finance sex education and public healthcare and equate many forms of birth control with abortion.

What we have is conservative religious cults forming the bedrock of religious Republican states that blindly believe in disproven and discredited theories while remaining scornful and/or allergic to liberal reality.

When one is raised on cultured religious stupidity, one is bound to wind up with dumb family values.

Religion teaches people to believe while flushing thinking and reality down the toilet.

That’s why so many evangelicals and fake-phony-fraudulent “Christians’ believed they saw the holy image of Jesus in a thrice-married, morally bankrupt philander-groper-tax-dodger-and-consumer-fraud-expert-Know-Nothing when he descended from his golden escalator to share his divine Mexican-Muslim-Misogyny wisdom with the religiously Republican uneducated masses.

Fraudulent family and political values are what hold the Republican Confederacy tightly together in a bond of fake fellowship.

“Let us pray” for more cultured stupidity, teenaged births, divorce, guns, minimum wage work, ‘free-dumb’ and Grand Old Poverty.
Nov. 18, 2017 at 5:26 p.m.

103
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:08:32am
104
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:08:52am

re: #76 Backwoods_Sleuth

Values Voters 2: Electric Boogaloo.

105
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:09:10am

re: #101 darthstar

They were playing in it. Sun Trust Park.

Ah. Didn’t know that. So TP lasted only nineteen years. Jeesh.

106
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:14:45am

Liz and Phil have been married nearly as long as Trump has been alive.

Neither sold out to a foreign power, either.

107
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:16:04am

re: #103 darthstar

That site would appear to be a parody site.

From its “about” page:

R. Hobbus J.D. is an internationally acclaimed independent investigative journalist specializing in international politics, health, business, science, conflict resolution, history, geography, mathematics, social issues, feminism, space travel, civil rights, human rights, animal rights, fashion, film, astronomy, classic literature, religion, biology, paranormal activity, the occult, physics, psychology, and creative writing. He has appeared in countless publications including Time Magazine, Newsweek, Playboy, The Economist, The New York Times, Mad Magazine, Hustler, Guns & Ammo, People, Maxim Magazine, Highlights, The 9/11 Commission Report, The New Yorker, Bon Appetite, Rolling Stone, Car & Driver, Soldier of Fortune, Elle, Nintendo Power, National Geographic, and many more. He has received numerous awards for his work including the prestigious Stephen Glass Distinction in Journalistic Integrity (2011), The Oscar Mayer Award for Journalistic Excellence (2003), three Nobel Peace Prize nominations, one Pulitzer in Investigative Reporting (1998), and two Pulitzer Prizes in Commentary (1996, 2008). He resides comfortably in his modest home overlooking the coast of Nantucket surrounded by his wife and twelve cats.

108
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:16:40am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹

That site would appear to be a parody site.

From its “about” page:

Ya think?

109
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:20:46am

re: #108 darthstar

Ya think?

I went to go look up the lifespan of a turkey. Google gave me the following results for a domesticated turkey:

Sodium: 49 mg (per 100 g)
Lifespan: 10 years
Clutch size: 10 - 14
Tail length: 9.6 - 20 in. (Adult)
Wingspan: 4.1 - 4.7 ft. (Adult)

110
freetoken  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:21:05am

re: #106 wheat-dogg

Liz and Phil have been married nearly as long as Trump has been alive.

[Embedded content]

Neither sold out to a foreign power, either.

Purists may insist that the House of Windsor is a foreign power.

111
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:23:24am

re: #98 dangerman

Backwoods sloth?
(C’mon no one thought of that?)

We were waiting for you.

112
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:25:40am

re: #110 freetoken

Purists may insist that the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Windsor is a foreign power.

FTFY. :p

113
Amory Blaine  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:28:56am

re: #109 Belafon

Needs more salt.

114
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:31:06am

re: #102 Amory Blaine

Comment on a NYT article:

SocratesDowntown Verona NJ
Liberals don’t “believe in comprehensive sex education and reliable birth control”; they know it and practice it.

As opposed to biblically-concussed conservatives, who ‘believe’ the Bible is the ‘word of God’, who believe that pre-marital sex is ‘sinful’, who refuse to fully acknowledge the reality of scientific evolution, who finance ‘abstinence’ ignorance and under-finance sex education and public healthcare and equate many forms of birth control with abortion.

What we have is conservative religious cults forming the bedrock of religious Republican states that blindly believe in disproven and discredited theories while remaining scornful and/or allergic to liberal reality.

When one is raised on cultured religious stupidity, one is bound to wind up with dumb family values.

Religion teaches people to believe while flushing thinking and reality down the toilet.

That’s why so many evangelicals and fake-phony-fraudulent “Christians’ believed they saw the holy image of Jesus in a thrice-married, morally bankrupt philander-groper-tax-dodger-and-consumer-fraud-expert-Know-Nothing when he descended from his golden escalator to share his divine Mexican-Muslim-Misogyny wisdom with the religiously Republican uneducated masses.

Fraudulent family and political values are what hold the Republican Confederacy tightly together in a bond of fake fellowship.

“Let us pray” for more cultured stupidity, teenaged births, divorce, guns, minimum wage work, ‘free-dumb’ and Grand Old Poverty.
Nov. 18, 2017 at 5:26 p.m.

Belief that..an assertion that something is generally accepted and objectively true

Belief in..faith without need or benefit of proof

Same word
Different meanings

Constantly and annoyingly conflated

115
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:33:22am

re: #111 ObserverArt

We were waiting for you.

😁

116
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:34:18am

Given Manson’s shaking off this mortal coil, this mashup seems oddly appropriate.

“Whole Lotta Helter Skelter” - The Beatles + Led Zeppelin Mashup (new version by ViejoLK)

See ya, Charlie. Not gonna miss ya.

117
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:34:52am

re: #111 ObserverArt

We were waiting for you.

I fell asleep in the midst of it last night

Really good work!

118
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:36:54am

re: #110 freetoken

Purists may insist that the House of Windsor is a foreign power.

A fair point. Rebranding the house did not exactly erase the lineage. Watching the Victoria series certainly brings home the anti-German sentiment that was quite acute during her reign. But the Crown’s refusal to side with cousin Wilhelm during WWI earns them some dispensation in my book.

119
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:38:26am

re: #114 dangerman

Belief that..an assertion that something is generally accepted and objectively true

Belief in..faith without need or benefit of proof

Same word
Different meanings

Constantly and annoyingly conflated

Well, that’s your theory, anyway.
//

120
meteor  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:41:09am

re: #61 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Ah, thanks.

121
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:43:13am

re: #119 wheat-dogg

Well, that’s your theory, anyway.
//

I believe that it is ;-)

122
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:43:44am

re: #110 freetoken

Purists may insist that the House of Windsor is a foreign power.

Ask in Derry.

123
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:46:52am

Charles Manson’s death has even made the news here in the Czech Republic.

In his own horribly twisted way, Manson became an American icon. Seriously…..I could mention “Charles Manson” here, and everyone would know damn well who I was talking about.

“Oh yeah……..the crazy hippie cult leader!” I’ve heard those exact words from Czechs - his infamy was truly international.

124
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:50:05am

Bullet Girl gets pwned in the comments.

125
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:50:21am

re: #123 Dr Lizardo

Charles Manson’s death has even made the news here in the Czech Republic.

In his own horribly twisted way, Manson became an American icon. Seriously…..I could mention “Charles Manson” here, and everyone would know damn well who I was talking about.

“Oh yeah……..the crazy hippie cult leader!” I’ve heard those exact words from Czechs - his infamy was truly international.

Who?

126
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:57:09am

For you Whovians:

theguardian.com

After graduating, Derbyshire struggled in what was predominantly a man’s industry, being told by Decca Records that it did not employ women in its studios. She turned to teaching but refused to give up and eventually found work as a trainee studio manager at the BBC.

It was here, in 1962 that she gained access to the experimental Radiophonic Workshop, developing an entirely new type of music by playing notes on tape and then speeding them up or slowing them down.. She went on to transform a written score by Ron Grainer for a new TV series, Doctor Who, into an iconic piece of electronic music.

Due to BBC policies at the time, Grainer - unwillingly - is still officially credited as the sole writer.

Derbyshire stayed at the workshop for 10 years, recording sound for Inventions for Radio and Cyprian Queen - all in the days before modern synthesisers and machines. She was later approached by Paul McCartney to work on a backing track for the Beatles hit Yesterday.

127
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:57:11am

re: #124 wheat-dogg

Bullet Girl gets pwned in the comments.

Yeah the “We’re a Republic not a Democracy!” quip by ‘liberty-loving’ wingnuts is my 158th least favorite thing about modern conservatism.

128
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:58:52am

re: #127 Sir John Barron

Yeah the “We’re a Republic not a Democracy!” quip by ‘liberty-loving’ wingnuts is my 158th least favorite thing about modern conservatism.

Same here. I’m not sure what they hope to prove, other than their own misunderstanding of the terms.

129
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:58:58am

re: #127 Sir John Barron

Yeah the “We’re a Republic not a Democracy!” quip by ‘liberty-loving’ wingnuts is my 158th least favorite thing about modern conservatism.

It’s been around for a while—first encountered it from my supervisor in 1973.

130
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 6:59:04am

*thud*

131
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:00:28am

re: #128 wheat-dogg

Same here. I’m not sure what they hope to prove, other than their own misunderstanding of the terms.

It’s probably more that ‘Republic’ is included in ‘Republican’ and ‘democracy’ is derivative of ‘Democrat’ in their tiny minds.

132
The Major  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:00:37am

re: #43 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Ironically enough - his son Jay is far more human than the old man is…

During his young adult years Bakker became disillusioned with mainstream Christianity, becoming particularly critical of Christian fundamentalism and the Christian right.[2] He later adopted a much more liberal form of Christianity and became a co-founder of Revolution Church, which was created in 1994 in Phoenix, Arizona.[3] Bakker then preached at Revolution’s Atlanta location before pastoring the New York City branch of Revolution Church, which held services at the bar and venue Pete’s Candy Store, in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn until Bakker relocated to Minneapolis in 2013 and began pastoring another iteration of Revolution Church there. Much of Bakker’s story was retold in a documentary on Sundance Channel called One Punk Under God: The Prodigal Son of Jim and Tammy Faye. His story has also been chronicled in Time Magazine.[4]

133
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:00:37am

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

It was a demonic onslaught. Brother Moore didn’t stand a chance.

134
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:01:38am

re: #117 dangerman

I fell asleep in the midst of it last night

Really good work!

Thanks.

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

135
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:01:39am

re: #131 makeitstop

It’s probably more that ‘Republic’ is included in ‘Republican’ and ‘democracy’ is derivative of ‘Democrat’ in their tiny minds.

Makes you wonder what they’d make of the Whigs, if they were still around.

136
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:02:32am

re: #132 The Major

New table, same three cards.

137
sagehen  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:03:37am

re: #83 Joe Bacon 🌹

I remember when Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium was built in 1971 and they said it would last 50 years.

Gets torn down in the 90s and replaced with two new stadiums…

Los Angeles is the only smart city, part 93.

The Coliseum was built for the 1932 Olympics; it’s still there and still operational.
The Rose Bowl was completed 1923.
Dodger Stadium opened in 1962.

138
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:05:05am

re: #125 Decatur Deb

Who?

You mean who I heard it from? My students; a lot of them are very knowledgeable about American culture, and during the Communist era, Manson was played up as the poster boy for “decadent, decaying American culture” (I learned that one today from one of my older students….he’s 62).

So people here certainly knew who he was, though oddly, they weren’t 100% familiar with his whole “Helter Skelter” schtick…..they mostly knew he was a crazy cult leader from the ’60s.

What’s really weird? Not many Czechs are all that familiar with Jim Jones and Peoples Temple, which is peculiar as hell, because if there was anyone that personified “wacked-out cult leader” yeah, it was Jones. I’ll ask a couple of my students tomorrow; they’re both in their late fifties so they should remember something like that pretty well.

139
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:06:14am

re: #138 Dr Lizardo

Charlie who?

140
plansbandc  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:06:30am

re: #4 ObserverArt

tWeII9210NMxNmzjoa4ZNyH57Sytd0OiudQXVf01U6MAVLALWZpYv2m0tqIkv9N3w7ztonPh2Zu3V0KAkDWgKrHoPih2jNiTSeelWBqkEhQD6Opm41vll8sw4puG+yPeOrHYTe3WrWDaX2kt9n6NiMad0lTBpQenFJt7EZDnPuKENjNZDm4p95P2tRpRnAji0ExM9eHtNfzeiTyXZcB2SrLWCIS/asJzR0E0GJC2a96M3aeDNCzHy2m1zyydZrSv

141
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:06:57am

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

*thud*

[Embedded content]

From the same crowd that preaches that Muslims are “barbaric” because of child marriage and snicker that Muslim men can’t control themselves around women.

142
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:07:07am

re: #129 Decatur Deb

It’s been around for a while—first encountered it from my supervisor in 1973.

Oh, yeah. It’s an oldie.

But I fondly remember the Tea Party screaming that public opinion polls (i.e. democracy) meant a Democratic congress should not pass Obamacare (representative republicanism). Of course they did and we’ve been paying for it ever since, in a way, but that’s another story.

143
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:07:17am

re: #129 Decatur Deb

It’s been around for a while—first encountered it from my supervisor in 1973.

IIRC, that line was used by the Birchers in the past. I remember seeing a really faded-out bumper sticker that said that back in the mid-1970’s. It was on a neighbor’s car and he was a big-time Bircher.

144
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:08:14am

re: #143 Dr Lizardo

IIRC, that line was used by the Birchers in the past. I remember seeing a really faded-out bumper sticker that said that back in the mid-1970’s. It was on a neighbor’s car and he was a big-time Bircher.

Yeah—JBS sounds about right.

145
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:08:15am

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

*thud*

[Embedded content]

Forgive me, but what religion do the Christians in Alabama practice again???

146
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:09:06am

re: #145 ObserverArt

Forgive me, but what religion do the Christians in Alabama practice again???

SEC. Their major feast is this week.

147
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:09:27am

re: #128 wheat-dogg

Same here. I’m not sure what they hope to prove, other than their own misunderstanding of the terms.

Yeah, I mean, I know we’re not a nation-wide town hall meeting ‘democracy’, if that’s what some wingnuts imply.

And even though a ‘republic’ implies ‘voting’, the “republic not a democracy” line probably has something to do with the desire to restrict voting.

148
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:09:51am

re: #145 ObserverArt

Forgive me, but what religion do the Christians in Alabama practice again???

Talibangelicalism?

149
Interesting Times  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:12:39am
150
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:12:43am

re: #137 sagehen

Los Angeles is the only smart city, part 93.

The Coliseum was built for the 1932 Olympics; it’s still there and still operational.
The Rose Bowl was completed 1923.
Dodger Stadium opened in 1962.

Kinda the same with Ohio Stadium on Ohio State campus. They kept the original stadium and updated it by building an outer shell around it that allowed them to go higher to add more seats and enclose the open end with a huge set of seats. Kinda cool to go inside and see the old stadium walls. It made way more room for concessions, etc.

The ‘Shoe’ got bigger for more feets…and butts.

151
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:12:57am

The 7 yr old is visiting for the week. Wife and I find we cannot shout political headlines across the living room.

152
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:13:43am

re: #147 Sir John Barron

Yeah, I mean, I know we’re not a nation-wide town hall meeting ‘democracy’, if that’s what some wingnuts imply.

And even though a ‘republic’ implies ‘voting’, the “republic not a democracy” line probably has something to do with the desire to restrict voting.

As has been noted, it’s a Bircher thing from long ago, and they got it from some loony who wrote his own books about history and politics.

153
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:14:12am

re: #147 Sir John Barron

Yeah, I mean, I know we’re not a nation-wide town hall meeting ‘democracy’, if that’s what some wingnuts imply.

And even though a ‘republic’ implies ‘voting’, the “republic not a democracy” line probably has something to do with the desire to restrict voting.

Being a “republic” and not a “democracy” probably has some anti-equality, anti-Civil Rights connotations. And anti-‘democracy’ as anti-leveling notions of progressive taxation, remedying income inequality.

154
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:14:23am

re: #152 wheat-dogg

As has been noted, it’s a Bircher thing from long ago, and they got it from some loony who wrote his own books about history and politics.

Glenn Beck’s boy, Clausen?

155
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:15:00am

re: #154 Decatur Deb

Glenn Beck’s boy, Clausen?

That’s the one. I’d forgotten his name.

156
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:15:25am

re: #152 wheat-dogg

As has been noted, it’s a Bircher thing from long ago, and they got it from some loony who wrote his own books about history and politics.

Right. Probably came in handy as anti-Civil Rights rejoinder.

157
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:15:35am

re: #140 plansbandc

[Embedded content]

What???

There are no links in my #4.

WTF are you accusing me of???

158
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:16:38am

re: #156 Sir John Barron

Right. Probably came in handy as anti-Civil Rights rejoinder.

Or anti-abolitionist rejoinder

159
Citizen K  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:17:10am
160
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:17:53am

I’ve reached that time of the evening when things really pick up here at LGF, but my body clock demands I go to sleep. So, reluctantly I must bid you all adieu.

161
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:18:28am

re: #149 Interesting Times

I wonder if the N*clangs will thank me for liberating them? Some people are saying my proclamation doesn’t mean anything in the border slates and that my proclamation is meaningless. Maybe I shouldn’t have done it. No praise. Your favorite president deserves better.

162
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:18:52am

re: #159 Citizen K

I’m going with the Oliver Willis explanation: somebody paid that guy to say those things. Diamond & Silk redux.

163
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:19:31am

re: #158 wheat-dogg

Or anti-abolitionist rejoinder

Not sure when emphasis on democracy became a progressive cornerstone, possibly as late as TR—Wilson era. Certainly peaked as a war propaganda ideal under FDR in WWII.

164
The Major  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:19:59am

re: #124 wheat-dogg

165
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:20:17am

re: #157 ObserverArt

What???

There are no links in my #4.

WTF are you accusing me of???

I’m waiting!!!

I don’t post links to malware. Please explain yourself. I’d like to know what happened because the image in #4 is stored here at LGF.

166
wheat-dogg  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:20:51am

re: #161 Sir John Barron

I wonder if the N*clangs will thank me for liberating them? Some people are saying my proclamation doesn’t mean anything in the border slates and that my proclamation is meaningless. Maybe I shouldn’t have done it. No praise. Your favorite president deserves better.

Kneel before Zod!!

167
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:24:07am

I saw a reference from 1922, a work by Edward Nelson Dingley, “America A Republic, Not A Democracy”. It looks like an opinion article or something.

That seems to be an early mention, or perhaps the genesis of the idea.

168
plansbandc  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:29:28am

re: #157 ObserverArt

I pressed your private comment button and landed on that page. Pissed me off. WTF?

Sorry, not totally awake. Surely not your fault. But yeah, that is what happened.

169
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:30:38am

re: #168 plansbandc

I pressed your private comment button and landed on that page. Pissed me off. WTF?

I hit the same button with no issues.

170
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:31:24am

Every dictionary will have it’s own definitions, but, if you use dictionary.reference.com, here’s the definition of a Republic:

a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.

And here’s the definition of a Democracy:

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Considering I just voted on amendments to our state constitution, I feel like I’m in a democracy here in Texas more than a republic.

171
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:32:18am
172
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:34:13am

re: #167 Dr Lizardo

To add, I noticed in the 1922 article this paragraph:

A part of the program of “modern democracy” is a proposal to enter some sort of a society or association of nations “to maintain peace.” It is said that the United States has outgrown its nationality, and that its destiny is in a new democracy of the world. Is this the democracy we desire? Must we surrender our national spirit and lay it on the altar of “new freedom” or “modern democracy?” Have the struggles and sacrifices of our forefathers been in vain? Is the destiny of the United States to be determined by a society of nations?

which certainly strikes me as an argument against any manner of American participation in the League of Nations. I know the USA didn’t join the LoN as of 1919 (it wasn’t ratified) but maybe there was some debate about that in the early 1920’s.

173
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:34:17am

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Odd, to me that seems like one of his more lucid statements. I know, that isn’t saying much.

174
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:34:27am

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

“I’m trying to claim credit for something Obama did by pretending he didn’t.”

175
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:34:50am

re: #134 ObserverArt

(Going to the heart of crazy)

hLtpXRnJnAITnS/7NGt113jFUENSTrBfp0Pvm1xa5vTPH5pqlG+Dm6eLmSIyzqTqkpuw2CYsrdNQ8JEFbntYkedLYz1+t7A37Z8FiQqX5D8ZhRh41N8cmq4pPTtjc5lqloNySKU0ITOIMgCYjk/OCtOlfm0TprfS58bPvBx8FSnqkA/67pREDMRxCYit48BxQNHAdWLSpctBr0dP99go0g==

176
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:35:52am

re: #175 Kilroy was here

7i4TLrGpdc6jQTAVdBcBrOjZ7HDQerCW+Y7adCgDCFIU20M6hH7XpLsCfDglo8ZdIpRnbauEzogCnyLKvJT/rhbiQATO3FGR

177
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:37:19am

re: #103 darthstar

178
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:37:46am

re: #176 Belafon

[Embedded content]

NnrwYToHhjcKnyKIrgq/PxQbq4bthnJOWRlfa2E0poFupI6/3jBBjDuMV0FSQpKrj/n+ecM81p/LOX4mRcUnXQ==

179
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:39:42am

re: #168 plansbandc

I pressed your private comment button and landed on that page. Pissed me off. WTF?

Sorry, not totally awake. Surely not your fault. But yeah, that is what happened.

re: #169 makeitstop

I hit the same button with no issues.

Like I said I had no links in #4. If you got sent to another page by clicking on the private button that seems like you have some viruses hijacking your computer. Plus the private button is coded by Charles.

You can apologize for accusing me right off the bat before knowing what is going on. You jumped the gun on that.

180
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:42:48am

re: #170 Belafon

Every dictionary will have it’s own definitions, but, if you use dictionary.reference.com, here’s the definition of a Republic:

And here’s the definition of a Democracy:

Considering I just voted on amendments to our state constitution, I feel like I’m in a democracy here in Texas more than a republic.

It’s Katrina “I don’t have a damn clue” Pierson.

You know what is frustrating? That dingbat probably makes decent money for being a complete idiot and others like me struggle to find work and be honest and give a good service.

Fucking Trumpers. They are a disease.

181
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:44:28am

re: #146 Decatur Deb

SEC. Their major feast is this week.

The good news is that the two most recent polls show Moore at only 42% of likely voters and Jones with a lead above the margin of error, so there are a sliver of “values voters” whose values actually prevent them from voting for a child molester, even if he does hate gays, muslims and women.
realclearpolitics.com

182
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:48:31am

re: #181 Big Beautiful Door

The good news is that the two most recent polls show Moore at only 42% of likely voters and Jones with a lead above the margin of error, so there are a sliver of “values voters” whose values actually prevent them from voting for a child molester, even if he does hate gays, muslims and women.
realclearpolitics.com

Can polls in Alabama be trusted?

This may be like the election when people may have cheated the polls by not admitting they were really voting for Trump.

183
(Bert the Turtle)  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:51:40am

Ugh. Dammit! Just Ugh.

rawstory.com

184
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:51:43am

re: #182 ObserverArt

Can polls in Alabama be trusted?

This may be like the election when people may have cheated the polls by not admitting they were really voting for Trump.

The polling last year was actually pretty accurate; Hillary did beat Trump in the popular vote by a couple of percentage points. The polls likely didn’t capture some votes she lost thanks to Comey’s last minute October surprise. Moore can’t be saved by an electoral college, unlike Trump. If Moore loses the popular vote, he loses the election.

185
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:51:47am

Well to add to your Monday…

Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

State Fair addition..
cnn.com

186
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:52:22am

re: #182 ObserverArt

Can polls in Alabama be trusted?

This may be like the election when people may have cheated the polls by not admitting they were really voting for Trump.

The Gravis poll is pretty well-regarded (Nate Silver B-). Quick polling of a small state population is always going to be tricky. Best to simply ignore them and do what must be done. Our chances are certainly better than ever expected.

187
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:52:24am

re: #134 ObserverArt

Did you see my littlegreenfootballs.com above?

188
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:53:43am

re: #145 ObserverArt

Forgive me, but what religion do the Christians in Alabama practice again???

Republicanism.

189
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:54:42am

re: #134 ObserverArt

Thanks.

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

190
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:55:21am

re: #157 ObserverArt

What???

There are no links in my #4.

WTF are you accusing me of???

I was confused by that, too.

191
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:55:33am

Looks like there is a second groping accusation against Al Franken.

msn.com

Edit: looks like I was few posts late on this.

192
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:56:46am

re: #185 Kilroy was here

Well to add to your Monday…

Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

State Fair addition..
cnn.com

Just as I expected; more women are coming forward. This is not going to end well.

193
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:57:54am

re: #187 MsJ

Did you see my littlegreenfootballs.com above?

Yes. I understand. I am only doing the images.

I really do not want either a Twitter or Facebook account.

I was hoping the LGF members run with them.

Yeah, I know that may not make sense, but I have my personal reasons.

194
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:58:01am

And Glenn Thrush has just been suspended by the NYT

195
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 7:58:44am

re: #189 dangerman

[Embedded content]

nvySz3fWZhoLHLPjuEoomA==

196
(Bert the Turtle)  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:00:49am

re: #185 Kilroy was here

Well to add to your Monday…

Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

State Fair addition..
cnn.com

Here’s the photo of the incident. Apparently.

197
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:01:19am

re: #192 Big Beautiful Door

Just as I expected; more women are coming forward. This is not going to end well.

And Pence smiles knowingly to ‘Mommy’.

198
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:02:38am

re: #196 (Bert the Turtle)

I guess that is her surprised I’m having my butt grabbed, while my husband takes the picture, face.

199
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:03:45am

re: #193 ObserverArt

Yes. I understand. I am only doing the images.

I really do not want either a Twitter or Facebook account.

I was hoping the LGF members run with them.

Yeah, I know that may not make sense, but I have my personal reasons.

Oh, I don’t have any issues with anyone not using social media. It’s just the HOW I wanted to try to get across to everyone.

8Sd/ujdRpgmvbA1CRhif3EZNfN4W699iiEBq1Ndq0b43IYRrMuBUMpP0sGlbaYUbcIwqCaVpTE7ZHmN9VNcHHeY9AOh1J0w/hjHZjM5LiYHUrNeBP/FiP9Ft128fA/xy3jrHFw4FT2xoU+Xa7u7jwtPK81zMvp0uj5knjbyeOfZJ7CUrUZH28uvK0R1nF7No6B+ws0nCrXlihisXNdfPB4ZfRN226EPNgrfpll1Qwee79xyH0RyuLKsuXXZMKkhSv1iR+yUEGuLvdXnKKP53WwskaAVEdgE7mEPzFXtcUuYO763TZBWE3KhQz2PKgC9vUEW4c5UJ/x3nSFzpj4QItnAwGJ9iKbeS

200
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:06:23am

re: #198 Kilroy was here

I guess that is her surprised I’m having my butt grabbed face while my husband takes the picture.

Well she posted the pic to facebook at the time and she and her sister had an exchange that is apparently still visible:

Menz posted the photo with Franken on Facebook at the time, on August 27, 2010. Her sister, Cari Thunker, commented under the photo: “Sorry, but you two aren’t Bibles (sic) width apart” — a reference, Thunker explained to CNN, to how physically close Menz and Franken were in the photo.

Menz responded to her sister on Facebook: “Dude — Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!” (The exchange is visible to Menz’s Facebook friends.)

So It is hard to say she is just making it up now.

201
(Bert the Turtle)  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:06:58am

re: #198 Kilroy was here

Word is she was so sickened by the experience she posted that pic on Facebook. Dunno for sure.

202
plansbandc  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:09:20am

re: #179 ObserverArt

See comment #168.

203
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:10:40am

I stand by my position as stated the other day: We must take these matters seriously, but we must avoid an overreaction to them.

Does this latest allegation warrant investigation? Yes.

Should Franken apologize for it? Yes.

Should he resign? No.

204
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:11:17am
205
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:14:01am
206
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:14:30am

I really don’t want to sound like I’m making too many excuses for this, but my theory is that Franken took so many pictures in that pose that day that that’s what he thought she wanted. As for the butt grab, he inadvertently grabbed her there pulling her close, probably because she’s taller than a lot of women. (I’ve had to apologize when I’ve misjudged someone’s height a few times.)

Edit: I’ve also had to apologize when I turn around and someone’s in a place I wasn’t expecting.

207
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:15:06am

It is looking like 2018 is going to be the year for women to make some big changes in male and female sexual dynamics. A good thing.

Some will be damaged properly and some improperly. It will get ugly and there will be kickbacks and counter-claims. But it is long needed.

I hope it is all fair and above board, but with the current state of politics it will be a war as the parties fight each other using women.

However, watch the fucker in the White get away while others get crushed.

208
The Vicious Babushka  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:15:19am
209
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:17:36am

re: #204 Backwoods_Sleuth

Awful.

210
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:17:56am

re: #208 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

What I love about all these claims by Republicans about how much money common folk will “get back” or “save” is that they present it as though there will be a single lump sum paid. When the reality is that you’ll see a few bucks more in each paycheck that won’t do much of anything to pull you out of poverty. And only for 5 years, after which you’ll be paying more in taxes while your boss soaks up the permanent cuts.

211
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:18:26am

re: #204 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Just heard that on The Dan Patrick show. Sad.

212
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:30:10am

So Glenn Thrush is now being accused of harassment too.

It’s going to be a whole lot easier to keep score by who DIDN’T harass or abuse women than pointing out those who did.

213
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:30:15am

re: #203 Targetpractice

I stand by my position as stated the other day: We must take these matters seriously, but we must avoid an overreaction to them.

Does this latest allegation warrant investigation? Yes.

Should Franken apologize for it? Yes.

Should he resign? No.

At what number of allegations should he resign at? Because odds are he will hit that number sooner or later.

214
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:30:28am
215
A Mom Anon  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:30:45am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

Turner Field wasn’t torn down though. They updated and cleaned up and it has a new name. I’m seeing Foo Fighters there in April. The Braves have a new stadium complex north of Atlanta now. The dome is being imploded for parking for the new stadium right next door, that’s for the Falcons. Time will tell if it’s worth the money I guess.

216
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:31:59am

re: #203 Targetpractice

This happened while he was a Senator. Unacceptable. Period.

217
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:31:59am

re: #213 Big Beautiful Door

At what number of allegations should he resign at? Because odds are he will hit that number sooner or later.

Then new accusation is that he put his hand on her butt for 4 seconds while taking a picture. We don’t even know whether he did it intentionally or not.

218
garzooma  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:32:01am

re: #204 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]
Just hearing that former #Cowboys WR Terry Glenn was killed in a car accident.

Caught Tom Brady’s first NFL touchdown pass.

219
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:33:00am

re: #214 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Weak on Minority crime, the only crime that really matters.//

220
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:33:53am

re: #214 Backwoods_Sleuth

He also prosecuted Eric Rudolph too I believe.

221
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:34:50am

re: #215 A Mom Anon

Turner Field wasn’t torn down though. They updated and cleaned up and it has a new name. I’m seeing Foo Fighters there in April. The Braves have a new stadium complex north of Atlanta now. The dome is being imploded for parking for the new stadium right next door, that’s for the Falcons. Time will tell if it’s worth the money I guess.

Oh. Good they didn’t tear it down. Foo Fighters? Awesome! I’m jealous. Grohl is the man.

222
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:35:06am

re: #206 Belafon

I really don’t want to sound like I’m making too many excuses for this, but my theory is that Franken took so many pictures in that pose that day that that’s what he thought she wanted. As for the butt grab, he inadvertently grabbed her there pulling her close, probably because she’s taller than a lot of women. (I’ve had to apologize when I’ve misjudged someone’s height a few times.)

Edit: I’ve also had to apologize when I turn around and someone’s in a place I wasn’t expecting.

until we arrive at some sort of utopia, we have to sort the behavior of (mostly) men being asses into “felonies”, “misdemeanors”, “infractions” and misunderstandings.

Justice is served neither by zero tolerance (indiscriminately lumping every encounter into the harassment/molestation basket) nor by dismissively turning a blind eye

223
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:35:38am

re: #213 Big Beautiful Door

At what number of allegations should he resign at? Because odds are he will hit that number sooner or later.

re: #216 GlutenFreeJesus

This happened while he was a Senator. Unacceptable. Period.

So he should immediately resign and any Democrat who is accused of the same as well? Where does it end?

224
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:36:29am

re: #217 Weaselone

Then new accusation is that he put his hand on her butt for 4 seconds while taking a picture. We don’t even know whether he did it intentionally or not.

Please. I’m telling you, I like Franken’s politics too, but this is not going to end well.

225
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:36:47am

re: #213 Big Beautiful Door

Why is that expected? Has there been a second accusation? By this time, with Moore or others had several. There has not 🐝 - to my knowledge - any 2nd complaints against Franken or Takei.

226
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:36:58am

re: #224 Big Beautiful Door

Please. I’m telling you, I like Franken’s politics too, but this is not going to end well.

For him? Or the party?

227
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:36:59am

re: #208 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

“cindy” is not a real person

this is “average cindy” - remember the apples

and that the first year is the teaser rate

228
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:37:43am

re: #223 Targetpractice

So he should immediately resign and any Democrat who is accused of the same as well? Where does it end?

It ends when men recognize that women aren’t things to use.

229
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:38:17am

re: #224 Big Beautiful Door

Please. I’m telling you, I like Franken’s politics too, but this is not going to end well.

You know what won’t end well, Democratic Senators resigning every time they get accused by a person of touching their butts.

230
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:38:36am

re: #228 Big Beautiful Door

It ends when men recognize that women aren’t things to use.

So the inquisition ends when it’s decided there are no more heretics to burn?

231
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:38:51am

re: #225 William Lewis

Why is that expected? Has there been a second accusation? By this time, with Moore or others had several. There has not 🐝 - to my knowledge - any 2nd complaints against Franken or Takei.

Yes there has been a second allegation. Its linked above.

232
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:40:12am

OT, but one of my students is a TV star!

ceskatelevize.cz

It’s all in Czech. What she’s talking about is how bad posture, in standing, walking, sitting, sleeping, can lead to difficulties later on in life. Also, when people overdo it during exercise; she then goes on to talk about how physiotherapy can help people in those situations.

She’s a physiotherapist.

233
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:40:40am

Thrush has been suspended by the Times as investigation continues:

234
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:41:32am

re: #232 Dr Lizardo

OT, but one of my students is a TV star!

ceskatelevize.cz

It’s all in Czech. What she’s talking about is how bad posture, in standing, walking, sitting, sleeping, can lead to difficulties later on in life. Also, when people overdo it during exercise; she then goes on to talk about how physiotherapy can help people in those situations.

She’s a physiotherapist.

that’s fantastic
and i didnt agree with a word of it ;-)

235
Skip Intro  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:41:39am

236
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:41:43am

re: #226 Targetpractice

For him? Or the party?

Mostly for him. It’s not good for the party but he is not the first nor the last politician who will go down for this, in either party. I do think its important for maintaining the energy from women that is driving the Democratic surge that Democrats show them they are not a good ole boys club like the Republicans.

237
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:42:41am

re: #236 Big Beautiful Door

Mostly for him. It’s not good for the party but he is not the first nor the last politician who will go down for this, in either party. I do think its important for maintaining the energy from women that is driving the Democratic surge that Democrats show them they are not a good ole boys club like the Republicans.

And so the proper way to do that is to drive out any man that an allegation has been made against? You see nothing wrong with that approach?

238
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:43:23am

re: #234 dangerman

that’s fantastic
and i didnt agree with a word of it ;-)

“I CAN’T BELIEVE SHE SAID THAT!!!”
What the hell did she say?!

239
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:43:27am

re: #229 Weaselone

You know what won’t end well, Democratic Senators resigning every time they get accused by a person of touching their butts.

And if that is all it takes to get ride of a Democratic US Senator expect claims to grow by wingnuts lying for Jesus.

Next we will be hearing he looked at me funny or bumped into me, I mean molested me, in the .7 seconds as we passed.

240
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:43:57am

re: #229 Weaselone

You know what won’t end well, Democratic Senators resigning every time they get accused by a person of touching their butts.

Don’t forget Franken is also accused of groping breasts ( know he only mimed it but the photo is still degrading, as he acknowledged) and forcing a kiss. And expect more allegations; if he’s grabbing strange women’s butts at the State Fair there are going to be more.

241
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:46:14am

re: #230 Targetpractice

So the inquisition ends when it’s decided there are no more heretics to burn?

Democrats need to be the party that recognizes that there is a huge sexual harassment problem in this country and is committed to doing something about it. Let the GOP be the party that belittles women as a bunch of liars who don’t have a sense of humor and dress too provocatively.

242
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:47:49am

re: #239 Kilroy was here

And if that is all it takes to get ride of a Democratic US Senator expect claims to grow by wingnuts lying for Jesus.

Next we will be hearing he looked at me funny or bumped into me, I mean molested me, in the .7 seconds as we passed.

And that’s before any discussion of even some sort of due process
zero tolerance never works and often makes the problem worse.

243
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:47:51am
244
FormerDirtDart  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:48:02am

re: #215 A Mom Anon

Turner Field wasn’t torn down though. They updated and cleaned up and it has a new name. I’m seeing Foo Fighters there in April. The Braves have a new stadium complex north of Atlanta now. The dome is being imploded for parking for the new stadium right next door, that’s for the Falcons. Time will tell if it’s worth the money I guess.

Turner Field no longer exists.
Your Foo Fighters concert will be Parker H. Petit Field at Georgia State Stadium. The home of the Georgia State Panthers football team

It just happens to be at the same location as Centennial Olympic Stadium & Turner Field.
GSU bought the stadium and surrounding area

245
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:48:11am

re: #241 Big Beautiful Door

Democrats need to be the party that recognizes that there is a huge sexual harassment problem in this country and is committed to doing something about it. Let the GOP be the party that belittles women as a bunch of liars who don’t have a sense of humor and dress too provocatively.

Then perhaps we should just nip this problem in the bud immediately and order every male Democrat to resign from office. We’ll show ourselves superior to the GOP by barring men from the party entirely so that we can’t face accusations of being a “Good Ol’ Boys Club.”

246
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:49:26am

re: #243 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Looking at that photo, I never realized Manson was so short - looks like he’s only about five feet tall, maybe 5’1” or so.

247
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:50:42am

re: #241 Big Beautiful Door

Democrats need to be the party that recognizes that there is a huge sexual harassment problem in this country and is committed to doing something about it. Let the GOP be the party that belittles women as a bunch of liars who don’t have a sense of humor and dress too provocatively.

So let me get this straight. If I were to go out and say that Elizabeth Warren had her hand tightly resting on my buttcheek during a 3-4 second photo she should immediately resign and let our governor appoint a replacement for the rest of her term?

248
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:51:09am

re: #237 Targetpractice

And so the proper way to do that is to drive out any man that an allegation has been made against? You see nothing wrong with that approach?

Which is not what I’m proposing. We have two credible allegations of sexual harassment against Franken. There is photographic proof. The second woman made contemporaneous statements about the incident when it occurred seven years ago; she hasn’t made it up. I would like Franken to voluntarily resign; I’m not proposing he be expelled yet. But there is going to be an investigation, and I strongly suspect there are going to be more accusations, because there usually are.

249
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:52:36am

re: #247 Weaselone

So let me get this straight. If I were to go out and say that Elizabeth Warren had her hand tightly resting on my buttcheek during a 3-4 second photo she should immediately resign and let our governor appoint a replacement for the rest of her term?

If it is that easy get me a doll and I’ll point to where Ted Cruz touched me.

250
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:53:16am

re: #248 Big Beautiful Door

Which is not what I’m proposing. We have two credible allegations of sexual harassment against Franken. There is photographic proof. The second woman made contemporaneous statements about the incident when it occurred seven years ago; she hasn’t made it up. I would like Franken to voluntarily resign; I’m not proposing he be expelled yet. But there is going to be an investigation, and I strongly suspect there are going to be more accusations, because there usually are.

So he should voluntarily resign before there has even been an investigation. And the same should apply to any male Democrat for whom a “credible” accusation can be made against.

251
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:53:22am

re: #245 Targetpractice

Then perhaps we should just nip this problem in the bud immediately and order every male Democrat to resign from office. We’ll show ourselves superior to the GOP by barring men from the party entirely so that we can’t face accusations of being a “Good Ol’ Boys Club.”

Strawman much?

252
A Mom Anon  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:54:21am

re: #244 FormerDirtDart

You’re right, for some reason I got the two confused. It is GA State’s venue. Haven’t been downtown for much since we moved north of the city many moons ago.

253
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:55:14am

re: #251 Big Beautiful Door

Strawman much?

I’m take your argument to its logical conclusion. So long as there are male Democrats, there will be the risk of their being accused of engaging in sexual harassment. So, for the good of the party’s future, we must drive all those men out so the party’s face is female. At least until those same women are accused of having known about the harassment and allowed it to go on, at which point you start demanding their heads as well.

254
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:55:26am

re: #247 Weaselone

So let me get this straight. If I were to go out and say that Elizabeth Warren had her hand tightly resting on my buttcheek during a 3-4 second photo she should immediately resign and let our governor appoint a replacement for the rest of her term?

Is that the second allegation against Warren? Is there photographic evidence like in Franken’s case? Did you make contemporaneous statements to others at the time which shows you didn’t just make this up?

255
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:57:13am

re: #239 Kilroy was here

And if that is all it takes to get ride of a Democratic US Senator expect claims to grow by wingnuts lying for Jesus.

Next we will be hearing he looked at me funny or bumped into me, I mean molested me, in the .7 seconds as we passed.

Check out aggressive unwelcome staring. It’s time both men and women go into burka.

At my farewell ceremony at US Forces, Korea I was given a surprise kiss on the cheek by my Colonel. Should I have filed a complaint and derailed her progress towards General?

256
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:57:17am

re: #254 Big Beautiful Door

Is that the second allegation against Warren? Is there photographic evidence like in Franken’s case? Did you make contemporaneous statements to others at the time which shows you didn’t just make this up?

Photographic evidence that he didn’t touch her? That evidence?

257
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:57:48am

Charles Manson is dead, just after the season finale of American Horror Story Cult. I wonder how the lead in this seasons series would have handled it?

These are the things I think of on Monday morning.

you?

258
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:58:12am

Are we going to parse every single one of these encounters to see whether they rise to the level of harassment or misogynist behavior?

Okay, let’s do it - but start at the top.

Trump admits to being a sex predator who gropes women for the hell of it because he thinks he can get away with it. 16 women came forward and the GOP elected him president.

If the GOP want to run Franken out of the Senate, they better first get the GOP house in order and dump Trump. Oh wait, the GOP doesn’t care about garden variety sex predators, and they’re defending Moore’s right to be elected to the US Senate by Alabama GOPers who are excusing an alleged sex predator and pedophile.

We aren’t going to get any leadership from the GOP on this. They’ll attack Democrats while excusing GOP actions that are FAR worse. Then they hope the Democrats frag each other so the GOP can keep on doing what they’ve been doing and accumulate even more power.

It’s going to be up to Democrats to do the right thing. I’m just waiting to see what the hell the right thing is here.

The right thing politically is a world apart from right by the women who are coming forward. The right thing to do today is a world apart from what was considered right even a few years ago, let alone 20+ years ago. Doesn’t make the claims/allegations against people today for past bad acts go away either.

It’s just there is no easy answer. Democrats understand this and this is hard to process.

The GOP has an easy answer - Democrats have to dump Franken, and we have to ignore Moore being a sex predator who attacks little girls. That’s messaging the GOP base understands.

259
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:59:05am

re: #250 Targetpractice

So he should voluntarily resign before there has even been an investigation. And the same should apply to any male Democrat for whom a “credible” accusation can be made against.

You put that “credible” in quotation marks like you think the photograph Franken has already apologized for was photoshopped, and the second woman has a time machine which allowed her to go back seven years and tell a bunch of people Franken grabbed her butt when he really didn’t. The allegations against Franken aren’t “credible”, one is credible and the other is proven and admitted.

260
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 8:59:59am

Puritopian leftists are more deadly to America than the Grand Old Fascists.

261
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:00:46am

re: #241 Big Beautiful Door

Democrats need to be the party that recognizes that there is a huge sexual harassment problem in this country and is committed to doing something about it. Let the GOP be the party that belittles women as a bunch of liars who don’t have a sense of humor and dress too provocatively.

whether thats what the party needs to be, that’s a separate point of debate.

what imo it doesnt need to do is take the responsibility for everything that everyone else has done. ie laying a moore level punishment on franken, and prematurely at that.

let the gop be what it wants

id like to be the party of justice for all. a little investigation, a little determination of factuality and truth, then an appropriate response.

262
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:00:53am

re: #246 Dr Lizardo

Looking at that photo, I never realized Manson was so short - looks like he’s only about five feet tall, maybe 5’1” or so.

Despite the existence of thousands of photos and numerous prison records dating back to the 1940s, Manson’s defenders in deranged conspiracy world claim that Manson is considerably taller than the 5’2” reported and this is just another effort to smear him. There is one page that proclaims his innocence and demands a new trial for him. I guess the author will have to move on to chemtrails and faked Moon landings now.

263
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:01:01am

re: #253 Targetpractice

I’m take your argument to its logical conclusion. So long as there are male Democrats, there will be the risk of their being accused of engaging in sexual harassment. So, for the good of the party’s future, we must drive all those men out so the party’s face is female. At least until those same women are accused of having known about the harassment and allowed it to go on, at which point you start demanding their heads as well.

Same stupid tactic rightwingers use all the time. So I’ll use it on you; I’ll take your argument to its logical conclusion that there is absolutely no reason for Alabama Republicans not to vote for Roy Moore.

264
Skip Intro  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:01:12am

re: #260 William Lewis

Puritopian leftists are more deadly to America than the Grand Old Fascists.

No, they’re not, because unlike the Grand Old Fascists they have no power.

265
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:01:26am

re: #259 Big Beautiful Door

You put that “credible” in quotation marks like you think the photograph Franken has already apologized for was photoshopped, and the second woman has a time machine which allowed her to go back seven years and tell a bunch of people Franken grabbed her butt when he really didn’t. The allegations against Franken aren’t “credible”, one is credible and the other is proven and admitted.

I put those quotation marks there because there will be more male Democrats who are accused and the standard in the last few months has been set: Any woman who comes forward must be accepted as credible, thus the accused have no way to defend themselves. If a single woman comes forward, a man’s career is immediately ruined and he cannot do anything but resign.

266
FormerDirtDart  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:02:18am

re: #252 A Mom Anon

You’re right, for some reason I got the two confused. It is GA State’s venue. Haven’t been downtown for much since we moved north of the city many moons ago.

Well, it’s easy to confuse since it’s the exact same field
lol
They converted it to a football field earlier this year, and slapped on a new name.
GSU also plans on building a baseball field in the former footprint of the old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Which is currently the parking lot. They plan to incorporate the fence & wall commemorating Hank Aaron’s 715th home run that sits in the parking lot

267
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:02:33am

re: #264 Skip Intro

No, they’re not, because unlike the Grand Old Fascists they have no power.

They do if they force out senators without appropriate investigations.

268
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:04:58am

re: #254 Big Beautiful Door

Is that the second allegation against Warren? Is there photographic evidence like in Franken’s case? Did you make contemporaneous statements to others at the time which shows you didn’t just make this up?

The photographic evidence of Franken doesn’t show him touching anyone. There’s actually more contact in the most recent accusation We also do not as yet know the full context of the picture.

I’m sure I could find a second person to accuse Warren of touching them, or if not I could get in contact with Jame’s O’Keefe and and he could get someone out here to take a picture with her and claim harassment.

269
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:05:10am

I’ve been trained to believe the woman—as an advocate.

It is hard for me to say this, but the Franken accusation video from the journalist seems too theatrical for me to take seriously. I’d have to hear from more “victims”. My personal viewpoint doesn’t mean jack. He admitted to doing it, therefore he must resign or show good faith attempt to reform —counselling, rehab, whatever. Grabbing and Kissing, although totally inappropriate, is not rape.

A journalist and a senator seem, to me, to be rather evenly matched in power,

Roy Moore and teenage girls? Not so much.

I look for a disparity in power in these situations.

In other words, grabbing and kissing are more of a misdemeanor and dating underage girls more like a felony.

JMHO

270
Skip Intro  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:05:27am

re: #267 William Lewis

They do if they force out senators without appropriate investigations.

What investigation are you referring to? Do you mean the GOP/Fox/Limbaugh witch hunt, because that’s what it’s going to be.

271
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:05:31am

re: #263 Big Beautiful Door

Same stupid tactic rightwingers use all the time. So I’ll use it on you; I’ll take your argument to its logical conclusion that there is absolutely no reason for Alabama Republicans not to vote for Roy Moore.

My argument is there should be an investigation and, if the accusations found to be credible, the matter handled in an even-handed fashion. One-size-fits-all justice never works because not every man is Roy Moore.

272
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:06:20am

re: #256 Kilroy was here

Photographic evidence that he didn’t touch her? That evidence?

A photograph that he has already acknowledged was demeaning and hurtful and apologized for, yes. Guess what, there are more ways to harass women than just groping them, and making them into the butt of crude jokes is unacceptable. My God, let a sexual harasser turn out to be an admirable progressive, and all of a sudden people on our side start sounding just like Alabama Republicans. We can’t be on the defensive on sexual harassment issues; we need to be the party that treats it as a serious problem, and that believes women when they make credible accusations, not just when they make politically convenient credible accusations.

273
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:07:27am

re: #262 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Despite the existence of thousands of photos and numerous prison records dating back to the 1940s, Manson’s defenders in deranged conspiracy world claim that Manson is considerably taller than the 5’2” reported and this is just another effort to smear him. There is one page that proclaims his innocence and demands a new trial for him. I guess the author will have to move on to chemtrails and faked Moon landings now.

LOL some people are crazy.

274
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:07:39am

re: #272 Big Beautiful Door

A photograph that he has already acknowledged was demeaning and hurtful and apologized for, yes. Guess what, there are more ways to harass women than just groping them, and making them into the butt of crude jokes is unacceptable. My God, let a sexual harasser turn out to be an admirable progressive, and all of a sudden people on our side start sounding just like Alabama Republicans. We can’t be on the defensive on sexual harassment issues; we need to be the party that treats it as a serious problem, and hat believes women when they make credible accusations, not just when they make politically convenient credible accusations.

So every act is the same? Touching a woman, even if accidentally, is to be treated as morally equivalent to rape?

275
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:07:42am

re: #246 Dr Lizardo

Looking at that photo, I never realized Manson was so short - looks like he’s only about five feet tall, maybe 5’1” or so.

I guess height matters …

276
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:09:13am

re: #236 Big Beautiful Door

Mostly for him. It’s not good for the party but he is not the first nor the last politician who will go down for this, in either party. I do think its important for maintaining the energy from women that is driving the Democratic surge that Democrats show them they are not a good ole boys club like the Republicans.

Just to be clear. A lot of those women voted for Trump. It is proven.

So, they accepted ALL the allegations against him.

And yes I know, things have changed since last election. And guys like Franken will probably pay for it.

And Trump will remain in office with an easy majority for some time for them to ram shit through we all pay for.

This fucking sucks.

And did you not mention you are a lawyer? Are you a defense lawyer by any chance? If so, how would you suggest your client handle it at this point? Would you fight it or tell him to give it up and resign…which in a way is an admittance? Just curious.

277
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:09:18am

If nothing else, this shows that sexual crimes or innapropriate behavior cross all boundries.

278
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:10:05am

re: #264 Skip Intro

No, they’re not, because unlike the Grand Old Fascists they have no power.

They have the demonstrated power to cripple or destroy a valuable US Senator.

279
BeachDem  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:10:16am

re: #268 Weaselone

The photographic evidence of Franken doesn’t show him touching anyone. There’s actually more contact in the most recent accusation We also do not as yet know the full context of the picture.

I’m sure I could find a second person to accuse Warren of touching them, or if not I could get in contact with Jame’s O’Keefe and and he could get someone out here to take a picture with her and claim harassment.

Or call Roger Stone—he got kicked off Twitter again, so he has time on his hands and I’m sure he has lots of friends waiting in the wings.
/

280
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:11:15am

Just got a BBC News Alert; Trump’s saying the US will officially (re)designate North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism, which will trigger new sanctions.

281
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:12:07am

re: #274 Targetpractice

So every act is the same? Touching a woman, even if accidentally, is to be treated as morally equivalent to rape?

This is where I start to get disgusted with humanity.

We will never agree on morality. What we can agree on is the LAW.

DID ANY of these people break the law? If so, on what level —felony?

Unfortunately, humans don’t vote or many decisions based on intellect (law), they make decisions based on emotion (morals).

JMHO

282
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:13:24am

AND, as long as a Predator is in the Oval Office, I think the populace has stated its opinion on crimes against women.

the USA is not a country that is female friendly.

283
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:14:41am

re: #265 Targetpractice

I put those quotation marks there because there will be more male Democrats who are accused and the standard in the last few months has been set: Any woman who comes forward must be accepted as credible, thus the accused have no way to defend themselves. If a single woman comes forward, a man’s career is immediately ruined and he cannot do anything but resign.

You are strawmanning my argument. My position is that Franken ought to resign, but if he chooses not to, that there be an investigation in which he gets due process and appropriate punishment. I strongly suspect the credible allegations against Franken aren’t going to stop at two; they rarely do.

284
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:14:44am

America is a business and a percentage of white women agree—sex crimes are secondary to profit.

285
FormerDirtDart  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:14:53am
286
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:15:28am
287
bill d. (b.d.)  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:15:30am

someone is paying attention:

288
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:15:51am

re: #271 Targetpractice

My argument is there should be an investigation and, if the accusations found to be credible, the matter handled in an even-handed fashion. One-size-fits-all justice never works because not every man is Roy Moore.

+ a bunch

289
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:16:47am

re: #267 William Lewis

They do if they force out senators without appropriate investigations.

No-one is going to force Franken out without an appropriate investigation; no-one has been expelled from the Senate since the Civil War. I think he ought to resign.

290
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:17:39am

re: #281 Birth Control Works

This is where I start to get disgusted with humanity.

We will never agree on morality. What we can agree on is the LAW.

DID ANY of these people break the law? If so, on what level —felony?

Unfortunately, humans don’t vote or many decisions based on intellect (law), they make decisions based on emotion (morals).

JMHO

That is something that I’ve felt for the longest time separated Republicans and Democrats, the for arguing “morality” as they interpret it while the latter argues the law as it has been interpreted by the courts. The former is ever-changing and easy to twist to reach whatever conclusion you like, while the latter generally has a solid basis with the argument largely being in the details. In the law intent matters just as much as the act itself, as it can mean the difference between murder and manslaughter. And that is what I’m not seeing in the accusations made against Franken, an intent to violate either of these women. The first seems like a tasteless joke that went too far, the second could very well be (as noted above) a misjudgment about the woman’s height.

291
CleverToad  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:17:54am

re: #213 Big Beautiful Door

At what number of allegations should he resign at? Because odds are he will hit that number sooner or later.

He should resign after the Senate ethics investigation IF and only IF the results of same warrant resignation. He deserves due process and we flippin’ need sunlight to air this out, whatever the results of same.

292
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:18:15am

re: #281 Birth Control Works

This is where I start to get disgusted with humanity.

We will never agree on morality. What we can agree on is the LAW.

DID ANY of these people break the law? If so, on what level —felony?

Unfortunately, humans don’t vote or many decisions based on intellect (law), they make decisions based on emotion (morals).

JMHO

Intent in many cases matters. The most recent allegation against Franken is an example. There’s a big difference between him intentionally grabbing her butt or him doing it by accident because he misjudged her height or the position of his hand for a 3-4 second photo.

293
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:18:50am

re: #289 Big Beautiful Door

No-one is going to force Franken out without an appropriate investigation; no-one has been expelled from the Senate since the Civil War. I think he ought to resign.

Personally, I think everyone of them should have to take the 60 hours of classes I had to take to become a Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Advocate.

There are a lot of opinions out there and very few people know the law or the science behind the law.

This isn’t a matter of morality, it’s a matter of Public Health.

There is more PTSD and TBI in this country from Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault than from war and football.

294
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:18:51am

re: #285 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

They are all complicit.

295
A Mom Anon  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:19:07am

re: #266 FormerDirtDart

I had forgot about the land purchases and all that stuff in that area. There’s been so much construction and demolition in this part of the state (including literally next door to my house), all that stuff begins blending together.

296
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:20:00am

re: #289 Big Beautiful Door

No-one is going to force Franken out without an appropriate investigation; no-one has been expelled from the Senate since the Civil War. I think he ought to resign.

You really don’t see the contradiction here?

297
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:20:09am

re: #285 FormerDirtDart

None of this is new. Or news.

Everyone around Trump has called Trump a moron (or a fucking moron) or much worse.

He’s still in the WH despite the inability to process facts or logic, because his supporters believe what he says, not the facts or logic or evidence. They’re in the same anti-factual bubble that Trump resides in.

The GOP keeps enabling Trump - and that’s the story.

They keep enabling Trump despite Trump admitting to being a sex predator and harasser.

They keep enabling Trump despite being compromised on Russia and surrounding himself with all kinds of criminality (Seth Abramson identified something like 20 different tracks that Mueller, FBI and Congress have to investigate, each of which is major on their own right).

They keep rubber stamping Trump’s judicial picks, making for a judiciary that is pushing a radical right wing agenda whose long term agenda is rolling back decades of civil and voting rights progress.

298
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:20:21am

re: #292 Weaselone

Intent in many cases matters. The most recent allegation against Franken is an example. There’s a big difference between him intentionally grabbing her butt or him doing it by accident because he misjudged her height or the position of his hand for a 3-4 second photo.

I guess butt grabbing is a subjective crime. I wouldn’t call for someone to lose their job if they grabbed my butt. I’d want an apology and proof they attended counselling or sensitivity training.

299
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:20:34am

re: #283 Big Beautiful Door

You are strawmanning my argument. My position is that Franken ought to resign, but if he chooses not to, that there be an investigation in which he gets due process and appropriate punishment. I strongly suspect the credible allegations against Franken aren’t going to stop at two; they rarely do.

You’re contradicting yourself, as you say there should be an investigation but you also believe he should take action before that happens. Is he guilty unless proven innocent?

300
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:20:55am

re: #283 Big Beautiful Door

You are strawmanning my argument. My position is that Franken ought to resign, but if he chooses not to, that there be an investigation in which he gets due process and appropriate punishment. I strongly suspect the credible allegations against Franken aren’t going to stop at two; they rarely do.

Serious question: why should Franken resign before the investigation even begins? The investigation he has already requested?
Are we at the point where trial by public opinion is now a fact?

I ask this as a woman who has been subjected sexual abuse, assault, harassment and even rape. So I personally know why women ( and men!) do not come forward with accusations. OTOH, I also believe in justice, and that includes justice for the accused as well.

301
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:21:01am

re: #167 Dr Lizardo

I saw a reference from 1922, a work by Edward Nelson Dingley, “America A Republic, Not A Democracy”. It looks like an opinion article or something.

That seems to be an early mention, or perhaps the genesis of the idea.

Googling Edward Nelson Dingley, “America A Republic, Not A Democracy” gets you a very convoluted explanation of how it’s all the fault of immigrants after the French Revolution. Or, something.

The French Revolution and immigration to the United States marked the beginning of the modern idea of democracy in America. Jefferson’s party was called the “democratic party” in derision, for alleged sympathy with the French revolutionists. From that day to the present, America has been the scene of political and social controversies between factions, the one clinging to the form of representative government, the other seeking political power under the cloak of democracy. The great issue evolved into a struggle between national rights and state rights. This clash continued until the close of the Civil War, which should have settled the question finally whether America is a Republic or a democracy; but it did not.

The essay is truly a piece of work. If I were a betting man, I would say that the writer is of the opinion that the republic was meant to be a few men in the upper class wielding power to dispense laws that the untermench should be happy to have in their republic of and for the few and the rich.

302
FormerDirtDart  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:22:01am
303
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:22:47am

re: #301 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Googling Edward Nelson Dingley, “America A Republic, Not A Democracy” gets you a very convoluted explanation of how it’s all the fault of immigrants after the French Revolution. Or, something.

The essay is truly a piece of work. If I were a betting man, I would say that the writer is of the opinion that the republic was meant to be a few men in the upper class wielding power to dispense laws that the untermench should be happy to have in their republic of and for the few and the rich.

Yes, I call that Jeffersonian America. Jefferson thought freedom meant that Patricians could serve in the Senate and then retire to their farms and watch the slaves work. He was Very Roman that way.

304
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:23:05am

re: #269 Birth Control Works

I’ve been trained to believe the woman—as an advocate.

It is hard for me to say this, but the Franken accusation video from the journalist seems too theatrical for me to take seriously. I’d have to hear from more “victims”. My personal viewpoint doesn’t mean jack. He admitted to doing it, therefore he must resign or show good faith attempt to reform —counselling, rehab, whatever. Grabbing and Kissing, although totally inappropriate, is not rape.

A journalist and a senator seem, to me, to be rather evenly matched in power,

Roy Moore and teenage girls? Not so much.

I look for a disparity in power in these situations.

In other words, grabbing and kissing are more of a misdemeanor and dating underage girls more like a felony.

JMHO

Too bad this is not about the actual court system.*

This is politics and it has never been fair in the court of public opinion.

And fairness will lose out to those that will protect at all costs because there is no system of fairness to be found when one side will do just about anything to get, keep and maintain control. And if you look at the media as sort of the jury…well, we know the chances that fairness can be found there.

*Though as Trump runs rampant on the courts it might not ever be the same.

305
Dr Lizardo  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:24:29am

re: #301 Colère Tueur de Lapin

I think that’s pretty much exactly what Dingely was getting at; I’ve seen similar sentiments expressed over in Freeperville - that only land-owners (and preferably, white male land-owners) should be allowed to vote.

306
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:25:41am

re: #304 ObserverArt

I just finished The 100. If anyone here was watched it, jump right in.

It depicts a dystopian future that is just as you described. Survival at all cost. Instead of cooperation and survival for the most, individuals consistently chose to serve their own interests and myths and fewer people survive.

Perhaps it is survival of the fittest —to breed, not the fittest to thrive.

307
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:27:37am

re: #292 Weaselone

Intent in many cases matters. The most recent allegation against Franken is an example. There’s a big difference between him intentionally grabbing her butt or him doing it by accident because he misjudged her height or the position of his hand for a 3-4 second photo.

I am not calling for a resignation or anything, but in my experience you don’t accidentally grab a woman’s butt for 4 seconds. In instances where I accidentally touch a woman somewhere inappropriately my hand comes back like I have been snake bit and an immediate apology is given.

308
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:29:45am

re: #289 Big Beautiful Door

No-one is going to force Franken out without an appropriate investigation; no-one has been expelled from the Senate since the Civil War. I think he ought to resign.

Resignation under fire=Forced out.

309
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:29:53am

re: #305 Dr Lizardo

I think that’s pretty much exactly what Dingely was getting at; I’ve seen similar sentiments expressed over in Freeperville - that only land-owners (and preferably, white male land-owners) should be allowed to vote.

i met a guy who thought foreigners shouldnt be allowed to own property (in the us) unless they became citizens or dual citizens

i think he was implying “undocumented” people who buy houses, just cant get mortgages and also unclear about “property” vs “real property”.

he said they “ought to contribute”
i said - anyone owns real property they pay real estate taxes

and whether real or other investment property - any capital at all - wouldnt we be better off with foreigners owning stuff and not being able to vote?

he said “they ought to contribute”
i decided not to have the conversation again

310
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:30:09am

Hang on, where can we look, if anywhere, to see what one alleged butt grab and or unwanted kiss is supposed to be a career ender, especially in the face of no credible calls for Trump to resign for bragging about far worse?

311
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:30:44am

re: #300 Backwoods_Sleuth

Serious question: why should Franken resign before the investigation even beings? The investigation he has already requested?
Are we at the point where trial by public opinion is now a fact?

I ask this as a woman who has been subjected sexual abuse, assault, harassment and even rape. So I personally know why women ( and men!) do not come forward with accusations. OTOH, I also believe in justice, and that includes justice for the accused as well.

The GOP is counting on it.

312
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:30:47am

re: #310 Unshaken Defiance

Hang on, where can we look, if anywhere, to see what one alleged butt grab and or unwanted kiss is supposed to be a career ender, especially in the face of no credible calls for Trump to resign for bragging about far worse?

exactly.

313
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:31:30am

re: #281 Birth Control Works

This is where I start to get disgusted with humanity.

We will never agree on morality. What we can agree on is the LAW.

DID ANY of these people break the law? If so, on what level —felony?

Unfortunately, humans don’t vote or many decisions based on intellect (law), they make decisions based on emotion (morals).

JMHO

Have you been paying attention to how the law is administered in this country? We can’t agree on that either.

I think some people of color, orientation and even political persuasion will say law too has becomes based on emotion and applications that are at best arbitrary.

314
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:33:36am

re: #313 ObserverArt

Have you been paying attention to how the law is administered in this country? We can’t agree on that either.

I think some people of color, orientation and even political persuasion will say law too has becomes based on emotion and applications that are at best arbitrary.

Yes, you are correct.

Why isn’t human trafficking a capital crime in a country that nearly tore itself in two over slavery?

Murder, rape and human trafficking need to be federal crimes —even then they won’t be adjudicated evenly.

315
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:34:48am

re: #311 TedStriker

The GOP is counting on it.

but only when it’s a Democrat…

316
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:35:14am

re: #307 danarchy

I am not calling for a resignation or anything, but in my experience you don’t accidentally grab a woman’s butt for 4 seconds. In instances where I accidentally touch a woman somewhere inappropriately my hand comes back like I have been snake bit and an immediate apology is given.

This is a good point, although it’s not impossible that he was unaware of where his hand was at the time. I think that it would be a good idea for Al to attend sensitivity training in this area. He shouldn’t announce it, but allow it to leak.

Edit: I also want to add the the time frame is sort of subjective. The accuser said it was 3-4 seconds. I’m assuming she’s right, but given she had a hand on her posterior, her perception of time might be a little off. I know mine is when I’m in an uncomfortable situation.

317
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:35:19am

re: #310 Unshaken Defiance

Hang on, where can we look, if anywhere, to see what one alleged butt grab and or unwanted kiss is supposed to be a career ender, especially in the face of no credible calls for Trump to resign for bragging about far worse?

lets also keep in mind circumstances and perspective

moore is in an electoral race. fair game to say dont vote for him because. fair game to target his supporters to change their minds withhold support, donations, etc.

franken is a senator. there are rules (such as they are). menendez is in an actual criminal trial. he’s still got his seat (so far)

318
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:37:30am

re: #317 dangerman

lets also keep in mind circumstances and perspective

moore is in an electoral race. fair game to say dont vote for him because. fair game to target his supporters to change their minds withhold support, donations, etc.

franken is a senator. there are rules (such as they are). menendez is in an actual criminal trial. he’s still got his seat (so far)

True. And far too subtle.

319
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:39:46am

re: #313 ObserverArt

Have you been paying attention to how the law is administered in this country? We can’t agree on that either.

I think some people of color, orientation and even political persuasion will say law too has becomes based on emotion and applications that are at best arbitrary.

that’s why i keep saying the d, left, liberal goal/motto/position should be “liberty and justice for all

it’s simple and clear and it parses well

liberty means freedom to mostly do what you want and be left alone
justice means fairness and proportional equity in all things
for all means everyone’s included - we all put in and we all get out (it’s justice that addresses “not the same amount”)

any spin or twisted interpretation to exclude or gain unfair advantage is downright unamerican - it’s the pledge of allegiance

320
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:40:37am

re: #299 Targetpractice

You’re contradicting yourself, as you say there should be an investigation but you also believe he should take action before that happens. Is he guilty unless proven innocent?

He has been consistent in saying Franken should resign for the betterment of the Party and the stance they take on women’s issues.

That would follow that Democrats get the benefits of that political stance at a later date.

My problem: that sounds fine in concept, but the chances of it being a plus are going to be real hard to find.

Why? Because this will all be forgotten in a year because there is a good chance the party that is not so inclined to be honest and do the right thing will have another outrage they will blow up and use dishonestly.

In simpler terms. Same shit. Different day.

321
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:41:19am

re: #318 Decatur Deb

True. And far too subtle.

truth often is
its a character flaw

322
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:41:23am

And I think it would be a grave error in judgment to treat women voters as a monolithic bloc that sees the only possible choice when a man is accused of sexual harassment is the (metaphorical) death penalty. There are ways to show we treat such matters as serious without assuming that women voters will be unsatisfied if Franken is allowed to keep his seat.

323
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:41:35am

re: #317 dangerman

Menendez should be gone, but he won’t be because the standard to prove corruption and bribery is so high you basically need a video of the politician having money shoved in his pockets while actively signing the legislation and declaring he’s signing it because of the money being shoved into his pockets. Hopefully, he’ll be primaried out the next time he’s up.

324
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:42:25am

re: #271 Targetpractice

My argument is there should be an investigation and, if the accusations found to be credible, the matter handled in an even-handed fashion. One-size-fits-all justice never works because not every man is Roy Moore.

My point exactly; not every case is the same. So my saying that under these circumstances Franken should resign doesn’t mean that every Democrat accused of something by anyone should have to resign. It doesn’t even mean Franken has to resign; I just think he should.

325
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:42:48am

re: #317 dangerman

lets also keep in mind circumstances and perspective

moore is in an electoral race. fair game to say dont vote for him because. fair game to target his supporters to change their minds withhold support, donations, etc.

franken is a senator. there are rules (such as they are). menendez is in an actual criminal trial. he’s still got his seat (so far)

WRT the vote sure, but a component of the question at hand is resignation. Where exactly is that bar supposed to be set? Senate rules are not about accusations, but the merit of the charges.

326
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:45:07am

re: #324 Big Beautiful Door

My point exactly; not every case is the same. So my saying that under these circumstances Franken should resign doesn’t mean that every Democrat accused of something by anyone should have to resign. It doesn’t even mean Franken has to resign; I just think he should.

And yet you’re making an argument that Franken should resign to show women voters that we don’t abide by the same behavior that the GOP is showing with Roy Moore, even those the seriousness of allegations made do not match. That is what says that any allegations made against a male Democrat will lead to demands for their resignation.

327
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:46:50am

re: #274 Targetpractice

So every act is the same? Touching a woman, even if accidentally, is to be treated as morally equivalent to rape?

Another strawman. Saying that I think Franken should resign doesn’t mean I think what he did is the same thing as rape.

328
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:47:11am

re: #316 Weaselone

This is a good point, although it’s not impossible that he was unaware of where his hand was at the time. I think that it would be a good idea for Al to attend sensitivity training in this area. He shouldn’t announce it, but allow it to leak.

Edit: I also want to add the the time frame is sort of subjective. The accuser said it was 3-4 seconds. I’m assuming she’s right, but given she had a hand on her posterior, her perception of time might be a little off. I know mine is when I’m in an uncomfortable situation.

Four seconds is a lot longer than the exposure time of a camera taking that image. Which really means his hand was on her butt in the photo.

WIth that in mind, the next part of the actual evidence is the photo. That is where it should be judged as far as in agreement with her story. Is it?

329
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:48:47am

I’ll just say it. Too soon for Franken to resign. This not imo an environment where the gesture would help, I strongly suspect the opposite.

330
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:49:12am

re: #328 ObserverArt

Four seconds is a lot longer than the exposure time of a camera taking that image. Which really means his hand was on her butt in the photo.

WIth that in mind, the next part of the actual evidence is the photo. That is where it should be judged as far as in agreement with her story. Is it?

The photo is sort of just upper torso. No indication of what is going on below waist level.

331
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:49:58am

re: #323 Weaselone

Menendez should be gone, but he won’t be because the standard to prove corruption and bribery is so high you basically need a video of the politician having money shoved in his pockets while actively signing the legislation and declaring he’s signing it because of the money being shoved into his pockets. Hopefully, he’ll be primaried out the next time he’s up.

i dont disagree
i was alluding to the senate rules
it’s hard(er) to boot a guy who “wins” his corruption case

332
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:50:36am

re: #321 dangerman

truth often is
its a character flaw

It is a human flaw.

And we “have the brains” to reason and shit.

Yeah.

333
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:50:55am

re: #276 ObserverArt

Just to be clear. A lot of those women voted for Trump. It is proven.

So, they accepted ALL the allegations against him.

And yes I know, things have changed since last election. And guys like Franken will probably pay for it.

And Trump will remain in office with an easy majority for some time for them to ram shit through we all pay for.

This fucking sucks.

And did you not mention you are a lawyer? Are you a defense lawyer by any chance? If so, how would you suggest your client handle it at this point? Would you fight it or tell him to give it up and resign…which in a way is an admittance? Just curious.

Whether he should resign or fight isn’t advise an attorney gives; he has to make that decision for himself. If I was his attorney, I’d want him to tell me how many more women may accuse him, and what they may accuse him of, so I could prepare his case for not getting expelled from the Senate.

334
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:53:42am

re: #327 Big Beautiful Door

Another strawman. Saying that I think Franken should resign doesn’t mean I think what he did is the same thing as rape.

So then why compare his situation to that of Roy Moore? Is it to say that the GOP will allow molestation and preying on young women, but a Democrat is expected to resign if he so much as brushes up against a woman in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable?

335
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:53:52am

1) Did you admit to being a sex predator who grabbed women without their permission?
Yes? Then you deserve to be ejected from elected office.

2) Are there allegations against you of grabbing women without their permission? Are there more than one woman alleging? Are there 5? 10? 50? Why did it take 50? or 10? for them to be credible? Those facing these allegations should keep them from getting elected in the first place (and deserve investigations - the outcome of which can and should include removal from office if the circumstances warrant).

3) Are the allegations including attacks against underage girls? Those facing these allegations should keep them from getting elected in the first place (and deserve investigations - the outcome of which can and should include removal from office if the circumstances warrant).

4) Did you grope, or appear to grope a woman in a single instance? Did you grope several women? Investigate and if confirmed, consider other means of punishment besides removal from office. Censure, fines, etc. Civil penalties/settlements.

Trump is in the first category. Weinstein and Trump are in the second (Trump being elected despite 16 credible women coming forward with tales of abuse that mirror Trump’s admissions that he’s a sex predator who thought he could get away with it).

Moore’s in the 3d category. Franken falls in the fourth category, though he could jump up to join (2) if the facts and circumstances dictate.

The thing is that the GOP doesn’t care about any of this - they only want their enemies out of the way and want to preserve their own power as much as possible even as they enable compromised and criminal actors.

336
Interesting Times  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:56:58am

Here, I’ll make this simple:

Franken should resign when Cheeto Benito does, and not a moment sooner.

337
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:57:02am

re: #335 lawhawk

What are the chances that the Franken issue is being discussed in the media for any reason other than to get Roy Moore into the US Senate?

338
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:57:42am

re: #326 Targetpractice

And yet you’re making an argument that Franken should resign to show women voters that we don’t abide by the same behavior that the GOP is showing with Roy Moore, even those the seriousness of allegations made do not match. That is what says that any allegations made against a male Democrat will lead to demands for their resignation.

And there are women out there, with sons or sons-in-law, and wives with husbands that have been accused of sexual harassment and been cleared (if that sounds a bit specific, it applies to my brother-in-law, who’s a sergeant in the Air Force). Going too far in the other direction can be a turn off as well.

339
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:58:11am

re: #296 William Lewis

You really don’t see the contradiction here?

I’m expressing my opinion that he ought to resign; whether he does or not is entirely up to him. There is no contradiction. Even if I think he should resign that doesn’t even mean that based on the current accusations I would support his expulsion.

340
RiverBoy  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:58:45am

I gotta say this Franken mess is absolutely disheartening for many a reasons. Franken was a good voice for the Democratic party but those days are over. Whether you like it or not, he has lost all credibility when it comes to treatment of women. Sure he may have stood for the right causes but words don’t mean much when your past actions say otherwise. But the most disheartening part has been the reaction from a lot people on the left. I see many on this site saying things such as, “I don’t want it to seem like I am making excuses, but…” and then comes the excuses or trying to explain how it’s not quite as bad as other people’s actions. Give me a break people. He forced a kiss on a one woman and grabbed the ass of another. I know some of you seem to be having a hard time believing the women but is it simply because you like Franken? I liked him too. But women deserve the benefit of doubt so I absolutely believe them. If the democratic party wants to lead this movement that the women have started then they can not have a leader of their party being someone who has harassed women. If he doesn’t want to resign, which I think is warranted, then the investigation needs to happen as soon as possible and if the allegations indeed pan out then he needs to be kicked out.

341
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:58:49am

re: #330 danarchy

The photo is sort of just upper torso. No indication of what is going on below waist level.

There are other indications.

This is the point where there is a good chance of huge disagreements. I am thinking like what if this was some kind of an actual trial looking for evidence and discussing it. But I am doing that for myself.

For a discussion board in a charged subject, it might be best to sidestep it and just ask people to judge for themselves as there will be big differences in the judgements of the contents of two humans in a photo one with his hand allegedly on the others butt…while the photo is taken.

And it is now warm enough here in Columbus I can finish some caulking and even a bit of painting. Later. Hopefully with more Republican Tax Reform Images.

342
Eventual Carrion  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:59:41am

re: #248 Big Beautiful Door

Which is not what I’m proposing. We have two credible allegations of sexual harassment against Franken. There is photographic proof. The second woman made contemporaneous statements about the incident when it occurred seven years ago; she hasn’t made it up. I would like Franken to voluntarily resign; I’m not proposing he be expelled yet. But there is going to be an investigation, and I strongly suspect there are going to be more accusations, because there usually are.

And we should let the ethics investigation take its course. It can be amazing what comes out once the questions start being asked and more info of the incidents are presented.

343
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 9:59:55am

It sounds like Franken would be a great target for a Washington Post investigation.

344
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:00:30am

re: #299 Targetpractice

You’re contradicting yourself, as you say there should be an investigation but you also believe he should take action before that happens. Is he guilty unless proven innocent?

You are strawmanning again. Resignation isn’t proof of guilt. Sometimes its just the approriate thing to do. And Franken has already admitted guilt about the photo, and the second accusation is extremely credible.

345
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:00:32am

re: #335 lawhawk

Oh and about that marital assault and rape his ex endured and swore to under oath in a deposition.

346
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:00:39am

re: #337 Decatur Deb

What are the chances that the Franken issue is being discussed in the media for any reason other than to get Roy Moore into the US Senate?

To muddy waters to obfuscate the claims against Moore as being no different than what Franken did. I rate that as 100% certainty.

Reality is that Moore has been accused of doing so much worse - sexually abusing a minor, allegedly being banned from local malls because of his creepy behavior, contemporaneous witnesses admitting they knew Moore creeped on high school girls and went out of his way to go visit places where high school girls went - targeting the most vulnerable.

GOP wants to frame all that as being somehow equivalent to Franken’s actions.

They aren’t in the same ballpark, but the GOP has the media doing their heavy lifting for them.

347
Skip Intro  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:00:57am

re: #337 Decatur Deb

What are the chances that the Franken issue is being discussed in the media for any reason other than to get Roy Moore into the US Senate?

What are the chances that this picture was held back until the RW radio station she worked for decided this was when it would be the most effective (i.e. taking the heat off of Moore)?

100%

348
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:01:07am

re: #325 Unshaken Defiance

WRT the vote sure, but a component of the question at hand is resignation. Where exactly is that bar supposed to be set? Senate rules are not about accusations, but the merit of the charges.

hey, i dont have all the answers ;-)

im just contrasting the two situations in hopes of raising questions

here’s a few:
if franken were in a private business should he resign his job or lose it?
are there others in the senate who have harassed women we havent heard about yet (- i’ll say yes)
since we know that’s mostly a fact why arent they all being investigated to find out who?

do you get away with it just because no one accuses you?

349
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:03:08am

Sadly, Sexual ASsault is a Top Public Health Issue —and it is being used as a red herring.

When it has served its purpose, we will be on to the next smoke screen.

350
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:03:40am

re: #344 Big Beautiful Door

You are strawmanning again. Resignation isn’t proof of guilt. Sometimes its just the approriate thing to do. And Franken has already admitted guilt about the photo, and the second accusation is extremely credible.

Guilt of what? Inappropriate behavior? Or criminal behavior?

351
Birth Control Works  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:03:46am

bbl

352
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:04:27am

re: #300 Backwoods_Sleuth

Serious question: why should Franken resign before the investigation even begins? The investigation he has already requested?
Are we at the point where trial by public opinion is now a fact?

I ask this as a woman who has been subjected sexual abuse, assault, harassment and even rape. So I personally know why women ( and men!) do not come forward with accusations. OTOH, I also believe in justice, and that includes justice for the accused as well.

I’m sorry to hear that; I hope you have had some measure of healing, and preferably redress. Voluntary resignation from a public office isn’t like conviction of a crime. Sometimes its just the appropriate thing to do for Party and Country. And Franken has already admitted that the photograph was grossly inappropriate and demeaning not only to the victim but all women, so I’m not saying he should fall on his sword for something which hasn’t even been proven.

353
Unshaken Defiance  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:05:48am

re: #348 dangerman

I guess my point is we don’t have a standard to go by. Or more to the point we have a panoply of standards, mostly illogical and temporary. Party, popularity, perceived power of importance, celebrity. At some point we need weight of evidence instead. Then we need a gradient of appropriate punishments. A path back from those mistakes such as unwanted kisses or a butt grab.

354
William Lewis  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:10:10am

re: #352 Big Beautiful Door

What you are saying is we will be so pure we will willingly commit suicide.

355
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:10:11am
356
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:11:06am

If I believed for even a moment that Franken resigning would have a positive outcome, particularly setting a precedent that both sides would heed, I might be supportive of the push for his resignation. But I don’t see anything positive coming from it, what I see instead is a precedent that will be set that Democrats will run any man who faces accusations of sexual misconduct out on a rail, while the GOP will continue supporting and electing sexual predators because they don’t give a flying fuck about anything but obtaining and maintaining power.

The midterm elections are not next week, they’re not even a month away, there’s nearly a year away. In a year’s time, there’s a shitload that the GOP can do to fuck this country over permanently while we conduct an inquisition of every man serving in the DNC.

357
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:13:50am

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

The solution for this is simple.

Keanu goes full John Wick on these fuckers.

Yeah, he’s back. And if anyone tries to mess with him? He’ll kill them ALL.

358
Interesting Times  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:13:53am

re: #356 Targetpractice

If I believed for even a moment that Franken resigning would have a positive outcome, particularly setting a precedent that both sides would heed, I might be supportive of the push for his resignation. But I don’t see anything positive coming from it, what I see instead is a precedent that will be set that Democrats will run any man who faces accusations of sexual misconduct out on a rail, while the GOP will continue supporting and electing sexual predators because they don’t give a flying fuck about anything but obtaining and maintaining power.

THIS ^^^

Franken resigning now would set the absolute worst double-standard imaginable, where Dems have to pay the highest political price immediately while GOPers get off (pun intended) scot-free.

359
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:14:07am

re: #332 ObserverArt

truth often is
its a character flaw

It is a human flaw.

And we “have the brains” to reason and shit.

Yeah.

i meant my character - attempted humor
i should have stopped after “backwoods sloth” upthread

360
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:15:53am

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

What’s the accusation? I can’t facebook or see twitter images at work.

361
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:17:58am

re: #337 Decatur Deb

What are the chances that the Franken issue is being discussed in the media for any reason other than to get Roy Moore into the US Senate?

My fear from the first moment we heard the allegations. But then the judging was fast and the bus was a backin’…

You know what else I thought of in one of my more cynical moments?

Leeann Tweeden has a refreshed memory (like Corey Lewandowski) and says she may have been wrong on the whole thing. She misremember at first because she couldn’t recall. But now…all is forgiven…nevermind.

I will never deny we are in the midst of some super-dirty politics. It’s been going on at a good clip since the 2000 elections.

362
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:19:48am

re: #361 ObserverArt

My fear from the first moment we heard the allegations. But then the judging was fast and the bus was a backin’…

You know what else I thought of in one of my more cynical moments?

Leeann Tweeden has a refreshed memory (like Corey Lewandowski) and says she may have been wrong on the whole thing. She misremember at first because she couldn’t recall. But now…all is forgiven…nevermind.

I will never deny we are in the midst of some super-dirty politics. It’s been going on at a good clip since the 2000 elections.

Do you have a link on that with Tweeden?

363
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:21:07am

re: #360 Belafon

What’s the accusation? I can’t facebook or see twitter images at work.

“Keenu Reeves: Hollywood Elites Use ‘Blood Of Babies’ To Get High”

364
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:22:07am

re: #310 Unshaken Defiance

Hang on, where can we look, if anywhere, to see what one alleged butt grab and or unwanted kiss is supposed to be a career ender, especially in the face of no credible calls for Trump to resign for bragging about far worse?

This is exactly the attitude I’m worried about. If Democrats say we are going to rally around our sexual predators because Trump has set the standard, why should women vote for Democrats? We should not aim for the moral standards of Donald Trump, because he has none.

365
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:23:28am

re: #248 Big Beautiful Door

Which is not what I’m proposing. We have two credible allegations of sexual harassment against Franken. There is photographic proof. The second woman made contemporaneous statements about the incident when it occurred seven years ago; she hasn’t made it up. I would like Franken to voluntarily resign; I’m not proposing he be expelled yet. But there is going to be an investigation, and I strongly suspect there are going to be more accusations, because there usually are.

this is probably a mistake. i’m going to say it anyway. and ianal

these allegations are many things. neither was sexual harassment.

throwing everything in that basket is dangerous.

366
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:24:00am

re: #363 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Keenu Reeves: Hollywood Elites Use ‘Blood Of Babies’ To Get High”

Now, if they’d accused him of using the blood of babies to stay immortal, I could believe it. He, Crispin Glover, and Thomas Brodie-Sangster are doing something.

367
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:24:35am

re: #306 Birth Control Works

I just finished The 100. If anyone here was watched it, jump right in.

It depicts a dystopian future that is just as you described. Survival at all cost. Instead of cooperation and survival for the most, individuals consistently chose to serve their own interests and myths and fewer people survive.

Perhaps it is survival of the fittest —to breed, not the fittest to thrive.

Not sure how the end of the last season fits, though. The spaceship descending after the five year firestorm near Clarke and a new child character makes no sense in the mythos. Where the hell did an alien or earth spaceship of that design come from? Looks like it is meant to be a prison ship or raider of some kind and I don’t understand where the writers are going. Tying that in (somehow) with the group that went to the station…. Gotta see what happen, I guess.

368
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:25:17am

Well, all this stuff being discussed is a bit too much for me … I’ll need to take a break for a day or two from the site until things settle down (and the subject changes as it is too much for me).

369
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:26:02am
370
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:26:05am

re: #306 Birth Control Works

I just finished The 100. If anyone here was watched it, jump right in.

It depicts a dystopian future that is just as you described. Survival at all cost. Instead of cooperation and survival for the most, individuals consistently chose to serve their own interests and myths and fewer people survive.

Perhaps it is survival of the fittest —to breed, not the fittest to thrive.

Libertarianism.

371
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:26:26am

re: #254 Big Beautiful Door

Is that the second allegation against Warren? Is there photographic evidence like in Franken’s case? Did you make contemporaneous statements to others at the time which shows you didn’t just make this up?

Didn’t you call for Franken’s resignation after the first accusation?

372
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:26:56am

re: #364 Big Beautiful Door

This is exactly the attitude I’m worried about. If Democrats say we are going to rally around our sexual predators because Trump has set the standard, why should women vote for Democrats? We should not aim for the moral standards of Donald Trump, because he has none.

If he has none, then couldn’t we just as well show we’re better than him by expecting Franken to attend counseling or sensitivity training? Why is resignation the only option?

373
Nyet  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:29:12am

This is not happening in a vacuum and Dems needs every voice in the Senate. It’s unfortunate when you have to choose between 2 wrongs, but sometimes you have to.

374
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:32:12am

re: #364 Big Beautiful Door

This is exactly the attitude I’m worried about. If Democrats say we are going to rally around our sexual predators because Trump has set the standard, why should women vote for Democrats? We should not aim for the moral standards of Donald Trump, because he has none.

we should aim for proportionality and understanding circumstances
we should attempt to identify and categorize misunderstandings and mistakes as a world separate and apart from misdemeanors and felonies.

375
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:32:29am

re: #362 Belafon

Do you have a link on that with Tweeden?

No. It was a cynical prediction. Sorry for any confusion.

I’m now looking for a helmet and a haz mask. And seriously considering no more commenting about any of this. It is way outta my control…our control. Just as some would want it.

376
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:33:08am

re: #213 Big Beautiful Door

At what number of allegations should he resign at? Because odds are he will hit that number sooner or later.

Depends on the allegation. All this one needs is an apology. Inappropriate and crude but what he did was not a crime. Sexual molestation of minors or real assaults on women are not the same as a guy being a jerk.

377
Interesting Times  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:34:07am

re: #373 Nyet

This is not happening in a vacuum and Dems needs every voice in the Senate. It’s unfortunate when you have to choose between 2 wrongs, but sometimes you have to.

Exactly. Also, all of us should remember the pro-wrestling/reality-TV aspect of US politics (now worse than ever). In the eyes of low-info/apathetic voters, Franken resigning now (while Cheeto Benito and Roy Moore are still going strong) won’t look like noble self-sacrifice - it will look like giving in, and pathetic, laughable failure to put up a fight.

378
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:34:11am

re: #373 Nyet

This is not happening in a vacuum and Dems needs every voice in the Senate. It’s unfortunate when you have to choose between 2 wrongs, but sometimes you have to.

And sometimes declining to make a choice is the worst of the three wrongs. Even if it’s the easiest one to avoid.

379
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:34:36am

re: #376 Hecuba’s daughter

Depends on the allegation. All this one needs is an apology. Inappropriate and crude but what he did was not a crime. Sexual molestation of minors or real assaults on women are not the same as a guy being a jerk.

+++++

380
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:35:09am

re: #371 makeitstop

Didn’t you call for Franken’s resignation after the first accusation?

All this dumping on Franken (this is the first time I’ve mentioned him since this started a couple days ago) has convinced me over the past few days (after discussions with my wife) that the last thing I am going to do now is try to run against my R representative.

The R’s would have a field day anyway with my erotic Romance novel editing; I can only imagine what they would try to do with this if Franken was forced to resign even before the investigation he asked for.

Politics is a nasty game, and I am not nasty enough to play except on the local level. That said, we need local Democrats too.

381
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:35:47am

How do we know that photo of zinke with the dead elephant is real.

I retweeted, then of course the doubt set in.

382
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:35:50am

In previous cases like Al Franken’s, as soon as one woman came forward on the record we started hearing from others because they felt less unsafe reporting it. Trump is a good example and so is Roy Moore.

But in the Franken case, not a single other woman has come forward since Tweeden’s allegations. This doesn’t prove anything, of course, but the difference is very noticeable.

383
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:35:52am

re: #376 Hecuba’s daughter

Depends on the allegation. All this one needs is an apology. Inappropriate and crude but what he did was not a crime. Sexual molestation of minors or real assaults on women are not the same as a guy being a jerk.

Yes they are.

No they aren’t.

Yes they are.

No they aren’t.

Yes they are.

No they aren’t.

No they aren’t.

Yes they are.

It’s hunting season.

it’s always election season.

384
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:38:27am

re: #382 Charles Johnson

In previous cases like Al Franken’s, as soon as one woman came forward on the record we started hearing from others because they felt less unsafe reporting it. Trump is a good example and so is Roy Moore.

But in the Franken case, not a single other woman has come forward since Tweeden’s allegations. This doesn’t prove anything, of course, but the difference is very noticeable.

Charles…are you not aware of the new and now second claim against Franken? I’m confused by your comment.

385
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:39:00am

re: #382 Charles Johnson

In previous cases like Al Franken’s, as soon as one woman came forward on the record we started hearing from others because they felt less unsafe reporting it. Trump is a good example and so is Roy Moore.

But in the Franken case, not a single other woman has come forward since Tweeden’s allegations. This doesn’t prove anything, of course, but the difference is very noticeable.

One has. Three, or however many days it has been, later. Which is in and of itself (the delay) of note. Not that ‘she should have…’ anything, just that nobody did in the interim.

386
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:39:01am
387
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:39:38am

Oh, OK - I wasn’t aware of the new report. I’ll have to check it out.

388
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:43:18am

re: #387 Charles Johnson

Oh, OK - I wasn’t aware of the new report. I’ll have to check it out.

Yeah, that is why the big part of this thread became All Al.

Plenty of questions and back ‘n’ forth ongoing above. It sucks.

389
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:44:16am
390
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:44:40am
391
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:46:13am

re: #389 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Well, Fox is not hiding any longer. They are officially the TV version of The National Enquirer.

Bat boy up next.

392
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:47:17am
393
Nyet  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:49:33am

re: #392 Charles Johnson

Is it by any chance connected to David Icke’s venture of the same name?

394
sagehen  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:49:52am

re: #339 Big Beautiful Door

I’m expressing my opinion that he ought to resign; whether he does or not is entirely up to him. There is no contradiction. Even if I think he should resign that doesn’t even mean that based on the current accusations I would support his expulsion.

If he resigns, the GOP will paint that as “there must be much worse than we know about, and it’s about to be made public.” No way in hell will Fox, or talk radio, or even most Democrats, think he was resigning because of what we’ve already heard.

395
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:50:41am

Research assignment for Anymouse: what is the actual story here?

396
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:53:06am

re: #393 Nyet

Is it by any chance connected to David Icke’s venture of the same name?

Media Matters says it’s a Russian proxy:

mediamatters.org

397
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:54:26am
398
FormerDirtDart  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:55:30am

Since videos on the CBS page always seem to take forever to spool for me, I went nd found this

Georgia Dome demolished after decades of sports history

399
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:57:04am

re: #394 sagehen

If he resigns, the GOP will paint that as “there must be much worse than we know about, and it’s about to be made public.” No way in hell will Fox, or talk radio, or even most Democrats, think he was resigning because of what we’ve already heard.

Exactly, this will not end with resignation and the people demanding his resignation now will not drop the matter once he does. And he will have no real defense because one he resigns, the ethics investigation closes and there will be no findings to defend him with. He will be treated as someone with something to hide, with the whispers being that the DNC leadership ran him out of the party to avoid “worse” coming to light.

400
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:57:05am
401
ericblair  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:57:11am

re: #394 sagehen

If he resigns, the GOP will paint that as “there must be much worse than we know about, and it’s about to be made public.” No way in hell will Fox, or talk radio, or even most Democrats, think he was resigning because of what we’ve already heard.

Trying to shame Republicans into acting like responsible moral adults is delusional at this point.

What Democrats are doing now is slowly and hesitatingly reinventing a legal system from scratch. Now we’re discovering the need for due process, proportional punishment, and intent.

402
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Nov 20, 2017 • 10:58:23am

re: #389 lawhawk

[t]hat there is a reflection of a stagehand on the helmet of one of the astronauts.

All the editing and special effects and thought, etc. that went into faking a moon-landing and they forgot to edit THIS out…

403
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:01:15am

re: #402 Colère Tueur de Lapin

All that 1969 Photoshopping gone to waste.
/s

404
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:03:50am

re: #400 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Dark features on Mars previously considered evidence for subsurface flowing of water are interpreted by new research as granular flows, where grains of sand and dust slip downhill to make dark streaks.]

The new White Sands Missile Range*. It’s got life, Mars could too!

* Ooops, sorry, White Sands National Monument, if we get to keep that.

405
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:07:33am
406
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:10:50am

re: #334 Targetpractice

So then why compare his situation to that of Roy Moore? Is it to say that the GOP will allow molestation and preying on young women, but a Democrat is expected to resign if he so much as brushes up against a woman in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable?

Another strawman; Franken is accused of much more than that, and you know it.

407
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:11:17am

re: #405 Kragar

[Embedded content]

indeed. and that’s another reason for pushing Franken to resign…that will be one less “obstructionist” vote…

408
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:11:41am

Are they worried?

409
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:12:04am
410
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:13:19am

re: #408 Stanley Sea

Are they worried?

[Embedded content]

in this case, the governor is a woman so they think she’ll be easy to push around…

411
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:13:23am

re: #408 Stanley Sea

Are they worried?

[Embedded content]

They will get sued by both candidates if they pull this.

412
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:14:03am
413
I Would Prefer Not To  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:14:04am
414
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:14:32am

re: #337 Decatur Deb

What are the chances that the Franken issue is being discussed in the media for any reason other than to get Roy Moore into the US Senate?

It doesn’t matter. Franken has admitted to sexual harassment, and there is credible evidence of more than one victim. He doesn’t get a pass even if his first victim had a political motivation to out him.

415
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:16:26am

re: #414 Big Beautiful Door

It doesn’t matter. Franken has admitted to sexual harassment, and there is credible evidence of more than one victim. He doesn’t get a pass even if his first victim had a political motivation to out him.

He does not get a pass, nor does he need to resign in order to resolve it.

416
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:18:39am

Della is the same age as my mom. :(

417
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:18:43am

Fox News is now pushing the “fake moon landing” conspiracy theory. This is how bad it’s getting.

418
Interesting Times  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:21:06am

Yet another reason that Franken should stay put until at least the investigation he himself welcomed is wrapped up:

419
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:21:44am

re: #406 Big Beautiful Door

Another strawman; Franken is accused of much more than that, and you know it.

re: #414 Big Beautiful Door

It doesn’t matter. Franken has admitted to sexual harassment, and there is credible evidence of more than one victim. He doesn’t get a pass even if his first victim had a political motivation to out him.

If we want to stand for the rule of law, we give Franken his due process, not reflexively run him out of Congress on a rail at the drop of a hat just because the Republicans are saying mean things about us. That’s what they want us to do with him and any other Democrat with any allegations of impropriety (see: Menendez), which means that, more often than not these days, it’s exactly the wrong thing for us to do, not only for the party, but also for the country and the institutions the Republicans are busy trying to neuter and destroy.

No, Franken should get his chances to properly defend himself, in front of the Senate Ethics Committee (which, being GOP-controlled, will absolutely rake him over the coals, justified or not) and in a courtroom, if it comes to that.

Full. Stop.

420
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:22:00am
421
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:23:07am

re: #414 Big Beautiful Door

It doesn’t matter. Franken has admitted to sexual harassment, and there is credible evidence of more than one victim. He doesn’t get a pass even if his first victim had a political motivation to out him.

Can you explain how, specifically, these two events were sexual harassment and not something else?

I’m not seeing it
And I’m not going to argue that whatever you say…..heres why it’s wrong…

422
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:27:42am

Prepare to smile a lot…and have plenty of tissues on hand:

423
allegro  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:31:23am

re: #364 Big Beautiful Door

This is exactly the attitude I’m worried about. If Democrats say we are going to rally around our sexual predators because Trump has set the standard, why should women vote for Democrats? We should not aim for the moral standards of Donald Trump, because he has none.

I have known sexual predators. There is nothing I’ve seen thus far to suggest that Franken is anything close to being one. Know what I’m seeing as a huge clue?

Predators are guys who manipulate and maneuver to get women alone. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or experienced any exception to this. The LAST thing they want are witnesses. That’s how they get away with their predatory behavior for so long. (See Moore, Roy and Weinstein, Harvey for examples.) It always remains in the “he said she said” arena and we know who wins those in our culture, particularly because predators choose victims whose credibility will be denied.

The Franken accusations involve instances in what appear to be very public places with many witnesses. This is contradictory to predatory behavior. Can we please have some fucking perspective here?

424
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:31:50am

re: #419 TedStriker

Also, to this effect, Roy Moore should also get his opportunity to properly defend himself in a court of law if at all possible. However, with him, he was already enough of a shitty human being before all this came out that we should all still oppose his election to the Senate and to work towards that goal.

Due process, it’s what we’re supposed to do.

425
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:33:10am

re: #424 TedStriker

Also, to this effect, Roy Moore should also get his opportunity to properly defend himself in a court of law if at all possible. However, with him, he was already enough of a shitty human being before all this came out that we should all still oppose his election to the Senate and to work towards that goal.

Due process, it’s what we’re supposed to do.

Difference is that Roy Moore likes his local court of public opinion, so would not welcome any official investigation.

426
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:34:50am

re: #423 allegro

The Franken accusations involve instances in what appear to be very public places with many witnesses. This is contradictory to predatory behavior. Can we please have some fucking perspective here?

With him obviously and knowingly posing for a camera…for posterity

427
Teukka  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:34:53am

re: #417 Charles Johnson

Fox News is now pushing the “fake moon landing” conspiracy theory. This is how bad it’s getting.

[Embedded content]

Big Question: Why are they doing this right now?

428
Varek Raith  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:35:46am

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

429
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:36:41am

re: #427 Teukka

Big Question: Why are they doing this right now?

Someone misplaced the Hillary file?

430
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:36:44am

re: #406 Big Beautiful Door

Another strawman; Franken is accused of much more than that, and you know it.

You know what hurts the efforts to get sexual harassment taken seriously? Blowing allegations like these totally out of proportion, such that people on the outside looking in see the bar set so low that it’s entirely possible for accidental actions to be interpreted as harassment.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the DNC needs men to vote for it as surely as it needs women. And when those men hear allegations like these and calls for Franken’s immediate resignation, the whole “War on Men” BS that the wingnuts like to roll out there starts to gain a hint of truth.

431
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:37:05am
432
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:38:17am

re: #428 Varek Raith

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

If it were Al Franken (R) it wouldn’t even be a blip on the public media radar compared to everything else popping up about GOP egregious sexual behavior.

433
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:38:40am

re: #428 Varek Raith

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

With all due respect, please see my last two posts and tell me that’s wrong.

434
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:38:45am

re: #427 Teukka

Big Question: Why are they doing this right now?

motherjones.com

They are generating a separate reality, and building an audience for it.

435
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:39:40am

re: #431 Charles Johnson

[How long before Fox News super fan Donald Trump starts publicly declaring the moon landing was a hoax?]

Please! With Buzz Aldrin at an arm’s length.

436
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:40:07am

re: #428 Varek Raith

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

Context matters.
That would make the Moore character a dem.

He
Would
Be
Toast

Long ago

437
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:40:53am

re: #432 Backwoods_Sleuth

If it were Al Franken (R) it wouldn’t even be a blip on the public media radar compared to everything else popping up about GOP egregious sexual behavior.

It would be met with another eyeroll about the “party of family values” and we’d move on. I sure as fuck would not be calling for Al Franken (R) to resign from office over this mess.

438
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:41:18am

O_o

439
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:41:50am

re: #438 Backwoods_Sleuth

O_o

[Embedded content]

Bwah?

440
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:42:11am

re: #428 Varek Raith

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

Which is why John Edwards continued his run for president and why Weiner is still a senator congressperson.

Fixed.

441
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:42:23am

re: #435 wrenchwench

Please! With Buzz Aldrin at an arm’s length.

It’s been a good while since Buzz coldcocked Bart Sibrel after being ambushed, but I bet Buzz still has enough vim and vigor left in him.

442
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:43:10am

re: #438 Backwoods_Sleuth

O_o

A story came out that while he’s in Florida, the airport there is going to be shut down.

443
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:48:17am

OT whine: HR can be really difficult. Especially when you really, really don’t want to have to terminate someone but can’t deny the bone-headed thing they did that warrants it. I hate having to term people during the holidays. I especially hate having to term people that I really like. :(

444
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:49:41am

re: #441 TedStriker

It’s been a good while since Buzz coldcocked Bart Sibrel after being ambushed, but I bet Buzz still has enough vim and vigor left in him.

I just hope the Secret Service doesn’t hurt him. He certainly would outclass the president, as he does by his mere existence.

445
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:51:12am

File this under “Perspective”:

In an exclusive report, more than 30 victims of sexual harassment by a now-disgraced “family values” Ohio Republican have come forward with evidence that he has a long history of stalking men online and sharing videos of himself masturbating.

According to the Independent Journal Review, former Representative Wes Goodman (R) spent late evenings direct-messaging with other man while his wife slept, engaging in sex talk and offering to provide sexual services.

446
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:53:34am
447
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:53:59am

On a happier note… (I hope)
Moore dodges the press as harassment scandal spirals
Democrat Doug Jones is vastly outspending the damaged Alabama GOP Senate candidate on the airwaves.
politico.com

Dem ad against Moore

Common Ground

Good to see a fight by the Dems here..

448
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:55:00am

re: #446 jaunte

How do you cure a recession?
GOP: Tax cuts!!!

449
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:56:28am

re: #428 Varek Raith

Sigh, I hate to say this but….
If it were Al Franken (R) this would be talked about in a completely different way.
Seeing this at DailyKos as well…
Disappointed, I am.

Yeah, it would. We’d be wondering why there was no investigation and why the media was giving it exactly zero attention. Also, we’d be defending the accusers as they got buried under a massive pile of Republican slime. Naturally, Senator Al Franken(R) would be calling the women lying liars who lie a lot and accuse them of being deep state operatives.

450
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:56:35am

re: #448 Belafon

Bankers suddenly starting to wonder if killing home equity value is going to be good for them after all.

451
Varek Raith  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:58:01am

re: #449 Weaselone

Yeah, it would. We’d be wondering why there was no investigation and why the media was giving it exactly zero attention. Also, we’d be defending the accusers as they got buried under a massive pile of Republican slime. Naturally, Senator Al Franken(R) would be calling the women lying liars who lie a lot and accuse them of being deep state operatives.

Read DailyKos comments. A lot of that shit is already happening.
Believe Women! (Unless it’s a dem).
Yeah, I’m sick of this hypocritical shit.

452
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:59:19am

re: #451 Varek Raith

Read DailyKos comments. A lot of that shit is already happening.
Believe Women! (Unless it’s a dem).
Yeah, I’m sick of this hypocritical shit.

Random people on the internet, not Al Franken himself. There is a difference.

453
Mike Lamb  Nov 20, 2017 • 11:59:24am

re: #440 Belafon

Which is why John Edwards continued his run for president and why Weiner is still a senator.

And the fact that Franken is a sitting Senator vs. running for election/re-election is a big difference. If it was the latter, I’d expect him to withdraw. As the former, there is no reason not to go through the investigation process.

454
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:00:24pm
455
JordanRules  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:00:32pm

re: #423 allegro

I believe a few of the Hollywood accusations happened in public, including what happened to Terry Crews. I personally have seen horrible violations happen with folks around. When you remember it being about power, many types of manifestations make sense and you often have a toxic mix of gaslighting, manipulation, humiliation and intimidation where other folks can certainly be involved.

I worked at a sports talk radio station and we were covering a big sporting event. Part of the weeks activities involve interviewing famous folks who are in town for the event. We interviewed a prominent actor and then did the customary pictures with the show talent (2 male hosts and me). We all lined up for the pics and the actor grabbed my ass and started to make some crude remarks about the outline of my lady parts while the smiling pics were snapped.

Then boom it was over and he was gone. One of the show hosts remarked about what a creep he was being with his remarks and I told them he had grabbed my ass too. They weren’t happy and I was just grossed out and quickly pivoting back to finishing my job. It was a fast moving environment. And I’d bet the smiling pics were used as part of our show promo at some point.

Food for thought.

456
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:05:54pm

re: #420 Kragar

LMAO at the photo on that Tweet.

457
I Would Prefer Not To  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:06:44pm

re: #440 Belafon

Which is why John Edwards continued his run for president and why Weiner is still a senator.

Congressperson

458
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:07:15pm

re: #452 Weaselone

Random people on the internet, not Al Franken himself. There is a difference.

I really hate random people on the internet. And I’m not joking.

459
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:07:21pm

re: #412 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Gotta grift.

460
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:07:37pm

re: #457 I Would Prefer Not To

Congressperson

You are correct. I will fix.

461
I Would Prefer Not To  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:09:17pm

re: #460 Belafon

You are correct. I will fix.

Have a ever been wrong? (Don’t ask my ex wife). ; )

462
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:09:53pm

Here it comes again:

463
Varek Raith  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:10:34pm

Fine.
I’ll shut up about Franken.

464
Bass Reeves  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:11:17pm

Honest question: Is the assumption by having everyone accused resign before an investigation, that we should just cede governance to unapologetic sexual predators?

465
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:12:36pm
466
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:13:05pm

I think it’s good we’re having this discussion, even if we’re not agreeing on much. Replace Franken with Ted Cruz. Republicans wouldn’t be having discussions over whether he should be removed from office.

467
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:14:14pm

re: #465 Backwoods_Sleuth

MAGA!
We shall not let their deaths be in vain.
We should honor veterans by killing more of them.
Etc.

///

468
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:14:27pm

re: #464 Bass Reeves

Honest question: Is the assumption by having everyone accused resign before an investigation, that we should just cede governance to unapologetic sexual predators?

That appears to be the thrust of Sara Huckabee’s remarks - that the Franken allegations should be investigated because he owned up to them, but that the Trump allegations should NOT be investigated because Trump did NOT.

So, we should get rid of all those who ‘fess up to any accusations, but keep the ones who don’t.

469
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:18:00pm

re: #467 Belafon

MAGA!
We shall not let their deaths be in vain.
We should honor veterans by killing more of them.
Etc.

///

and standing up for the national anthem!!11!!

470
Bass Reeves  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:19:51pm

re: #468 Blind Frog Belly White

That appears to be the thrust of Sara Huckabee’s remarks - that the Franken allegations should be investigated because he owned up to them, but that the Trump allegations should NOT be investigated because Trump did NOT.

So, we should get rid of all those who ‘fess up to any accusations, but keep the ones who don’t.

Well, I do agree with the getting rid of those who confess. I also agree with not electing them in the first place (ie, I don’t think Trump should resign because of *this*, as it was known and he was elected in spite of it…I think he should resign for multiple other things, and then get impeached). Franken has not confessed to anything more than the picture. He is low-key refuting the kiss, and doesn’t recall the second accuser.

471
BeachDem  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:20:01pm

re: #440 Belafon

Which is why John Edwards continued his run for president and why Weiner is still a senator.

And why Mark Sanford was drummed out of office, never to be seen again—oh, wait—he quietly paid back the money he used for his affair, continued as governor and then won back his house seat.

(I know, he wasn’t accused of sexual harassment, but he was certainly a sleazy character with his Appalachian Trail adventures.)

472
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:20:37pm

re: #354 William Lewis

What you are saying is we will be so pure we will willingly commit suicide.

Another strawman. I don’t believe that the Democratic party is incapable of finding politicians who don’t engage in sexual harassment. And, I will repeat myself, I’m not saying that every Democrat accused of sexual harassment has to resign.

473
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:23:52pm

re: #365 dangerman

this is probably a mistake. i’m going to say it anyway. and ianal

these allegations are many things. neither was sexual harassment.

throwing everything in that basket is dangerous.

I’m not sure how you can think that. They are both textbook sexual harassment.

474
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:24:36pm

re: #453 Mike Lamb

And the fact that Franken is a sitting Senator vs. running for election/re-election is a big difference. If it was the latter, I’d expect him to withdraw. As the former, there is no reason not to go through the investigation process.

this must be added to the fact that moore and franken are being accused of two entirely different things

the situation / context each is in has to be coupled with what he is “charged” with

475
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:25:40pm

re: #454 jaunte

Don’t let the multiple molestation accusations against Moore let you forget that he’s also accused of defrauding a charity and not reporting taxable income.

and twice removed from his position on the court

476
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:26:42pm
477
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:26:47pm
478
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:26:57pm

re: #371 makeitstop

Didn’t you call for Franken’s resignation after the first accusation?

I did. There was photographic evidence and Franken admitted what he did was degrading not just to the victim but women in general. And I correctly predicted there would probably be more incidents. The fact that a second incident has emerged just reinforces my opinion, and I bet there will be more.

479
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:29:09pm

re: #372 Targetpractice

If he has none, then couldn’t we just as well show we’re better than him by expecting Franken to attend counseling or sensitivity training? Why is resignation the only option?

Its not; that is just what I think he should do. My humble opinion. Because I suspect that now that there are two, its going to turn into three, then four, and eventually everyone will agree resignation is the only option. We’ll see.

480
Romantic Heretic  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:29:33pm

re: #427 Teukka

Big Question: Why are they doing this right now?

To pull in a fresh set of ‘heroes’ and to prove that democratic government (as well as Democratic government) is evil at the core.

The moon landing conspiracists, as with all conspiracy mongers, regard themselves as heroes. They believe they are the people who see ‘the truth’ and stand for it against tremendous odds. There are a fair number of moon landing conspiracists who are not part of the Fox demographic. Fox, by offering airtime for this idiocy hopes to build its audience.

And The Ministry of Truth, excuse me, Fox News, represents the viewpoints of the aristocrats and barbarians claiming the title of conservative. Central to their views is that democracy is evil and chaotic. The moon landing conspiracy is yet more ‘evidence’ of this primary fact.

I’m kind of surprised Fox hadn’t thought of this earlier.

481
allegro  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:29:49pm

Oh dear. There is a fly in the house. There are also two 5 month old kittens in the house.

Mayhem is ensuing.

482
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:30:23pm

re: #476 jaunte

What the.

483
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:30:31pm

re: #373 Nyet

This is not happening in a vacuum and Dems needs every voice in the Senate. It’s unfortunate when you have to choose between 2 wrongs, but sometimes you have to.

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

484
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:31:38pm

re: #479 Big Beautiful Door

Its not; that is just what I think he should do. My humble opinion. Because I suspect that now that there are two, its going to turn into three, then four, and eventually everyone will agree resignation is the only option. We’ll see.

And what if nobody else comes forward? Or they do, but nothing more than lurid or horrific than what we’ve heard so far? Would you then agree that resignation is uncalled for?

485
Romantic Heretic  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:32:39pm

re: #448 Belafon

How do you cure a recession?
GOP: Tax cuts!!!

Works the same way a bullet in the head cures the flu!

486
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:33:18pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

I suspect you’re handing a loaded gun to the GOP.

487
Bass Reeves  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:33:51pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Right? Because Hillary is President right now because elections are 100% normal.

488
Charles Johnson  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:35:34pm
489
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:35:52pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

And Mitch would never try to exploit the temporarily open seat to try to ram through legislation while he holds up the seating of Franken’s replacement.

//////

490
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:36:34pm

re: #488 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The bell rings, the dogs salivate, and we wonder why we expected anything different to happen.

491
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:37:22pm

As if sacrificing the remains of their dignity is going to get a truthful answer from SHS.

492
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:37:33pm

re: #374 dangerman

we should aim for proportionality and understanding circumstances
we should attempt to identify and categorize misunderstandings and mistakes as a world separate and apart from misdemeanors and felonies.

I’m sorry, but calling what Franken has been accused of “misunderstandings and mistakes” sounds like the kind of rationalizations women subjected to this kind of treatment have been hearing forever. The Democratic Party doesn’t need to be gaslighting women to protect its own.

493
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:38:25pm

re: #473 Big Beautiful Door

I’m not sure how you can think that. They are both textbook sexual harassment.

see re: #421 dangerman

494
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:38:44pm

re: #479 Big Beautiful Door

Its not; that is just what I think he should do. My humble opinion. Because I suspect that now that there are two, its going to turn into three, then four, and eventually everyone will agree resignation is the only option. We’ll see.

We’ll see what the facts are when they come; meanwhile, in a legal sense, Franken and Moore still should be accorded due process in a court of law (if it comes to that) and, in Franken’s case, due process in the Senate Ethics Committee investigation.

495
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:39:41pm

The woman who had the sticker about Trump on her trunk: She added the sheriff to it: dailykos.com

496
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:40:02pm

re: #382 Charles Johnson

In previous cases like Al Franken’s, as soon as one woman came forward on the record we started hearing from others because they felt less unsafe reporting it. Trump is a good example and so is Roy Moore.

But in the Franken case, not a single other woman has come forward since Tweeden’s allegations. This doesn’t prove anything, of course, but the difference is very noticeable.

I assume you’ve caught up with the news since you posted this.

497
Romantic Heretic  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:40:15pm

re: #494 TedStriker

But it’s much more fun to try them in the court of public opinion. Much easier to make charges stick as well since there is no presumption of innocence.

498
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:41:23pm

re: #492 Big Beautiful Door

I’m sorry, but calling what Franken has been accused of “misunderstandings and mistakes” sounds like the kind of rationalizations women subjected to this kind of treatment have been hearing forever. The Democratic Party doesn’t need to be gaslighting women to protect its own.

Forcing Franken to resign isn’t going to solve one damn thing with the current set of facts at hand, especially with the Republicans, because they’ll bash him quite hypocritically until he’s out of office, no matter how he leaves. However, the Ethics Committee investigation will likely be quite harsh (probably much more harsh that if a Republican were the target) due to GOP control, so if sunlight is what you want in all of this, they’ll be plenty of it (but also keep in mind they’ll likely be some bullshit there too).

499
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:41:43pm

re: #443 Flying Squirrel Girl

OT whine: HR can be really difficult. Especially when you really, really don’t want to have to terminate someone but can’t deny the bone-headed thing they did that warrants it. I hate having to term people during the holidays. I especially hate having to term people that I really like. :(

Al Franken?

; )

500
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:43:46pm

re: #394 sagehen

If he resigns, the GOP will paint that as “there must be much worse than we know about, and it’s about to be made public.” No way in hell will Fox, or talk radio, or even most Democrats, think he was resigning because of what we’ve already heard.

I think we are going to find out there is more. Sorry, we’ve seen again and again that guys who do this stuff do it a lot. I wish Franken wasn’t one of those guys, I really do.

501
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:44:36pm

i’m going to leave these last two points and then go get some work done.

the asymmetrical reactions to moore and franken are because what each of them did and the circumstances at the time. it is not because of the letter after their names.

—-
second, “sexual harassment” is going the way of “terrorist” (and i would argue “abuse” as well)

a once specific definition is morphing and evolving to be used in all sorts of circumstances it has no business in and wasnt intended for

if you change the usage of a word (its definition and meaning), you have to let everyone in on the new definition - whether it be broader or more focused. or whatever.

and if this is your goal, you must recognize that changing a word may have many side effects and unintended consequences.

502
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:45:48pm

re: #495 Belafon

I worked for a business owned by 3 brothers in Sugar Land, all of whom were very good friends with Troy Nehls and his brother, going way back. Mr. Nehls would regularly stop by the office looking for the owners and I didn’t like him at all back then. I’m actually pleasantly surprised that the owner of the truck says she gets more positive feedback than negative about the decals in that part of the state.

503
Sir John Barron  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:46:15pm

re: #476 jaunte

What could go wrong?

504
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:46:47pm

Shameless Page Promotion:

Keystone XL Pipeline Approved but by a Different Route (goes to the right hand column of Little Green Footballs)

The article includes a write-up with the facts from my regional newspaper, along with my write-up of how we got to this point and what’s next.

505
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:46:52pm

re: #500 Big Beautiful Door

I think we are going to find out there is more. Sorry, we’ve seen again and again that guys who do this stuff do it a lot. I wish Franken wasn’t one of those guys, I really do.

There’s also generally a pattern to the behavior. So far, the pattern is that Franken is a guy who has issues with inappropriate touching. That’s something that calls for counseling or sensitivity training, not capital punishment.

506
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:46:59pm

re: #481 allegro

Oh dear. There is a fly in the house. There are also two 5 month old kittens in the house.

Mayhem is ensuing.

we had a gecko (you know a lizard) this morning. 2 10 year old cats

same mayhem

507
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:47:35pm

re: #500 Big Beautiful Door

I think we are going to find out there is more. Sorry, we’ve seen again and again that guys who do this stuff do it a lot. I wish Franken wasn’t one of those guys, I really do.

I think the reason that a lot of us are inclined to give Franken more of the benefit of the doubt more so than Moore (or most of the other Republicans accused of similar behavior lately) is precisely because of his history, his track record up to this point, in Congress and before. That should still count for something, but again, a measured response and due process is the key in all of this.

508
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:47:51pm

The entire Republican party should resign for being guilty of decades of trying to put their hands on the ovaries of every woman in the country. But they won’t, because abusive behavior works to keep them in power.

509
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:48:08pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

Franken may well be replaced by another Dem in the Senate, but the seat will remain vacant long enough for McConnell and his minions to wreak complete havoc with our way of life.

510
ObserverArt  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:48:33pm

re: #463 Varek Raith

Fine.
I’ll shut up about Franken.

And that is disappointing too. I like reading all the comments. I don’t understand why this can’t be discussed both sides and the truth…plus the flip side.

511
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:48:42pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

this is injecting a lot of politics where it maybe doesnt belong

if the MN gov was an R would you feel the same? if so, then why mention it at all?

512
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:49:37pm

And here again I would suggest that what we need in this Great Catharsis is to stop punishing all but the most egregious for a while, while we get it all out in the open.

If we establish a low bar for resignations, you’ll have a lot of guys making the calculation that it’s better to deny and attack the accusers than to admit responsibility, plus I suspect a lot of women who’ve been subjected to less heinous misconduct will stop coming forward because they might feel like the punishment is disproportionate.

513
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:50:15pm

re: #509 Backwoods_Sleuth

Franken may well be replaced by another Dem in the Senate, but the seat will remain vacant long enough for McConnell and his minions to wreak complete havoc with our way of life.

Even if Franken resigned tomorrow, the Senate would be in recess until after Thanksgiving. And it’s going to take time for Davis to find and name a replacement, that replacement to make the transfer to DC, and for them to be seated in Franken’s spot. That’s time in which Mitch can call together the rest of the Senate, get Mike in his seat, and ram through Wealthcare on a party-line vote.

514
BeachDem  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:51:42pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

Not in this case, because Mn has a Democratic Governor. If Franken resigns, he’ll be replaced by a Democrat, and a Democrat will probably win the special election next year.

And once the Republicans smell blood in the water, they will go after every Dem they possibly can—with or without documentation or basis. That’s what they do—that’s who they are.

515
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:52:26pm

re: #512 Blind Frog Belly White

And here again I would suggest that what we need in this Great Catharsis is to stop punishing all but the most egregious for a while, while we get it all out in the open.

If we establish a low bar for resignations, you’ll have a lot of guys making the calculation that it’s better to deny and attack the accusers than to admit responsibility, plus I suspect a lot of women who’ve been subjected to less heinous misconduct will stop coming forward because they might feel like the punishment is disproportionate.

Precisely.

If we, as a nation, want a full accounting of all of this, then the Senate Ethics Committee investigation into Franken should be allowed to happen and run its course (even if the Republicans try to stuff in a bunch of obvious bullshit); that route most likely goes away if Franken resigns.

516
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:55:00pm
517
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:55:30pm
518
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:56:05pm

re: #508 jaunte

The entire Republican party should resign for being guilty of decades of trying to put their hands on the ovaries of every woman in the country. But they won’t, because abusive behavior works to keep them in power.

The ovaries, and the entirety of a woman’s being. The Republicans are responsible for policies that are causing the maternal death rate to rise all over the world. This increases the death rate of children also.

These are the stakes. We do need to choose allies carefully. We also need to be careful about rejecting allies.

519
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:56:19pm

re: #517 jaunte

[Embedded content]

*hurls*

520
Skip Intro  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:56:23pm

re: #516 MsJ

Next will be “Mommy may I?” And they’ll do it.

521
Bass Reeves  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:57:52pm

re: #483 Big Beautiful Door

By the by, is there no other recourse than resignation?

522
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:58:59pm

Here’s a hell of a thought: If there are worse things about Franken waiting out there in the shadows, then how about we wait for them to come to light and see for ourselves instead of running with the conclusion that they exist and the only option is to force his resignation now.

If we want to have a serious dialogue as a nation about sexual harassment, then we need to air it all out. Not pass judgment in the fear that worse lurks out in the shadows.

523
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:59:35pm

re: #521 Bass Reeves

By the by, is there no other recourse than resignation?

The Senate, after investigation, could censure or expel Franken; censure would be more likely in that case, because expulsion takes a 2/3s vote in the Senate (the same goes for a House member, though the particular rules vary between the two chambers).

en.wikipedia.org

524
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 12:59:36pm

re: #517 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Huck and sons look like a really bad barber shop trio.

525
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:00:29pm

re: #524 HappyWarrior

Experiment in slimming with vertical stripes.

526
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:00:40pm
527
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:01:17pm

re: #526 darthstar

Liability…

528
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:02:04pm

re: #526 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Because we decided a decade ago that putting a bunch of assholes in a house or on an island and filming what happened was cheaper to produce.

529
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:03:56pm

re: #525 jaunte

Experiment in slimming with vertical stripes.

It doesn’t work if the number of stripes is too great.

530
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:04:16pm

re: #528 Targetpractice

Because we decided a decade ago that putting a bunch of assholes in a house or on an island and filming what happened was cheaper to produce.

re: #527 Kilroy was here

Liability…

Good ponts, both…also, many US game show contestants wouldn’t walk up a flight of stairs.

Go to Youtube, find the nine minute version of this…it’s brutal.

531
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:05:36pm

re: #530 darthstar

Good ponts, both…also, many US game show contestants wouldn’t walk up a flight of stairs.

Go to Youtube, find the nine minute version of this…it’s brutal.

Does anyone finally win?

Put the answer in a spoiler tag if you want. :)

532
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:05:37pm

re: #528 Targetpractice

Because we decided a decade ago that putting a bunch of assholes in a house or on an island and filming what happened was cheaper to produce.

Longer than that…it’s been 17 years since Survivor debuted (which itself was based on a Swedish show from 1997).

en.wikipedia.org

533
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:06:00pm

re: #530 darthstar

Good ponts, both…also, many US game show contestants wouldn’t walk up a flight of stairs.

Go to Youtube, find the nine minute version of this…it’s brutal.

Most Americans can’t even walk up a short flight of non-slippery steps.

534
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:06:43pm
535
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:07:09pm

re: #532 TedStriker

Longer than that, it’s been 17 years since Survivor debuted (which itself was based on a Swedish show from 1997).

en.wikipedia.org

Good God, has it been that long?

536
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:07:14pm

re: #526 darthstar

537
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:07:45pm

re: #535 Targetpractice

Good God, has it been that long?

Time flies, don’t it?

538
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:08:01pm

re: #532 TedStriker

Longer than that…it’s been 17 years since Survivor debuted (which itself was based on a Swedish show from 1997).

en.wikipedia.org

And The Real World on MTV was from 1992.

539
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:08:47pm

re: #531 makeitstop

Does anyone finally win?

Put the answer in a spoiler tag if you want. :)

green

540
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:08:53pm

I see that Japanese show and think “You guys are amateurs compared to the shit I used to watch happen on Double Dare back in the day…”

541
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:09:05pm

re: #534 MsJ

[Embedded content]

I also wanted to mention that the loudest calls for Franken’s resignation I’m seeing on social media are from people demanding that Keith Ellison be named as his replacement.

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm….

542
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:09:10pm

re: #536 MsJ

[Embedded content]

It all started with Twister…

543
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:09:38pm

re: #538 danarchy

And The Real World on MTV was from 1992.

Until 2013…I could have sworn that it (or one of its variants) was still in production.

544
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:10:00pm

re: #419 TedStriker

If we want to stand for the rule of law, we give Franken his due process, not reflexively run him out of Congress on a rail at the drop of a hat just because the Republicans are saying mean things about us. That’s what they want us to do with him and any other Democrat with any allegations of impropriety (see: Menendez), which means that, more often than not these days, it’s exactly the wrong thing for us to do, not only for the party, but also for the country and the institutions the Republicans are busy trying to neuter and destroy.

No, Franken should get his chances to properly defend himself, in front of the Senate Ethics Committee (which, being GOP-controlled, will absolutely rake him over the coals, justified or not) and in a courtroom, if it comes to that.

Full. Stop.

I never said he should be denied a hearing, if that’s what he wants. I think he ought to resign. If he’d rather have a hearing, that’s fine.

545
goddamnedfrank  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:10:13pm
546
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:10:16pm

As I noted up the thread, all this hammering of Franken from the left before the ethics committee meets he asked for has convinced me not to take on my (never challenged) Republican representative.

4qCnIGktLwdX3FKl3LkV6azcF3OvzEvxJuZBOCNGujuK8svVbk6RQIBubuRv5zdlXggiEwDZ5xK7Dj/pHy9tvKusJ9cWrS50KeVTd+VAbtlBPZr6fn5jk56c3eusMFVXfly/ccBIxIkq4w+VrUvd0auN5tPkOF0ejBVU5FZwkHifJ98Ew6G3vsIsGYEV51lTcMfsoNcjfXW70nLkbRe204v/lXTX9dSZB2+o7i2zzDD6hT7laMNDQ8J7kk3RCmv9od3ntSFXJOMJXUE9h7KS0eZVc+qtfav+LTeIHXOcaWaO4n5yJAtxGCxGC6ndWxLcjvKxLHsa1bcXIcWz3WocrOYV2CDs0/3vR+FWqOQMExs=

547
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:10:29pm

Change of subject: Anyone heard what’s going on with our disabled Nuclear Subthe diesel Argentinian sub in the South Atlantic? I heard it mentioned this morning, but Roy Moore and Tax Cuts and Russia are taking precedent so the 44 seamen on that sub aren’t getting a lot of cover.

Thanks for the corrections

548
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:11:30pm

re: #534 MsJ

[Embedded content]

I sincerely hope that Mueller is taking a look at the Sanders campaign. Might be a surprise or two there…

549
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:11:37pm

re: #541 Backwoods_Sleuth

I also wanted to mention that the loudest calls for Franken’s resignation I’m seeing on social media are from people demanding that Keith Ellison be named as his replacement.

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm….

If it did come to Franken resigning, I could think worse people to take his seat than Ellison; the balance of power in the House wouldn’t budge and, AFAIK, Ellison has been quite competent in his current seat.

550
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:11:47pm

re: #537 TedStriker

Time flies, don’t it?

I was thinking more about how that show continues to get renewed to this day. There really does seem to be a regular human appetite for watching others suffer.

551
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:11:52pm
552
jaunte  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:12:40pm

re: #547 darthstar

553
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:12:53pm

re: #548 makeitstop

I sincerely hope that Mueller is taking a look at the Sanders campaign. Might be a surprise or two there…

I have been thinking that for a long time.

554
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:12:58pm

re: #547 darthstar

Change of subject: Anyone heard what’s going on with our disabled Nuclear Sub in the South Atlantic? I heard it mentioned this morning, but Roy Moore and Tax Cuts and Russia are taking precedent so the 44 seamen on that sub aren’t getting a lot of cover.

It’s not a nuke and it’s not ours, it’s an Argentinian Navy diesel-electric boat, missing for the past two or three days.

The US Navy is assisting in the SAR effort, though.

555
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:12:59pm

re: #551 MsJ

Angry bigot lady was asked about that…she said she’d get back to the media on it.

556
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:13:00pm

re: #547 darthstar

Change of subject: Anyone heard what’s going on with our disabled Nuclear Sub in the South Atlantic? I heard it mentioned this morning, but Roy Moore and Tax Cuts and Russia are taking precedent so the 44 seamen on that sub aren’t getting a lot of cover.

It is an Argentine submarine.

That said, the search is still on, with many nations now involved.
cnn.com (9 hours old)

557
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:13:17pm

re: #421 dangerman

Can you explain how, specifically, these two events were sexual harassment and not something else?

I’m not seeing it
And I’m not going to argue that whatever you say…..heres why it’s wrong…

He forced an unwanted kiss on a woman. He mimed groping her breasts for a photo which he has admitted is demeaning to her. He grabbed another woman’s butt when he was posing for a photo with her at the State Fair. Lips, breasts, butt. How exactly are these allegations not sexual harassment?

558
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:13:32pm

re: #547 darthstar

Change of subject: Anyone heard what’s going on with our disabled Nuclear Sub in the South Atlantic? I heard it mentioned this morning, but Roy Moore and Tax Cuts and Russia are taking precedent so the 44 seamen on that sub aren’t getting a lot of cover.

1) It’s not the US Navy’s sub. It’s an Argentine diesel sub with 44 aboard.
2) The US has sent rescue services to help locate and rescue the crew along with Brazilian, British, and Chilean naval assets.

Waves towered as high as 22 feet, while thunderstorms and powerful gusts of wind hindered the visibility and mobility of Argentine, American, British, Chilean and Brazilian military personnel scouring the area in ships and aircraft.

Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE

Signals Detected From Missing Argentine Submarine as Foreign Navies Join Search NOV. 18, 2017

Search Underway for Argentine Navy Submarine With 44 Aboard NOV. 17, 2017
“These are less than favorable conditions that do make things difficult,” said Cmdr. Erik Reynolds, a United States Navy spokesman. “You’re talking about 44 sailors out there. If they’re in trouble, there’s a finite amount of time to get to them, so I think there is a great deal of concern by the international community.”

The mystery surrounding the fate of the crew aboard the San Juan, a German-made submarine that has been part of Argentina’s fleet since 1985, has transfixed the nation since news of its disappearance broke early Friday. The submarine last made radio contact on Wednesday.

It’s not sounding too good from the latest reports.

559
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:14:03pm

re: #554 TedStriker

It’s not a nuke and it’s not ours, it’s an Argentinian diesel-electric boat, missing for the past two or three days.

And who says our sound-byte media doesn’t confuse the fuck out of people…jesus…I was way off.

560
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:14:31pm

re: #534 MsJ

What are they doing?

561
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:14:39pm

re: #534 MsJ

[Embedded content]

Sanders really is showing himself to be just as insensitive or as bigoted to minorities as any Republican. I don’t want to hear lectures from a guy who performs like a Republican does with minorities about what our party should be.

562
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:15:19pm

re: #547 darthstar

Change of subject: Anyone heard what’s going on with our disabled Nuclear Sub in the South Atlantic? I heard it mentioned this morning, but Roy Moore and Tax Cuts and Russia are taking precedent so the 44 seamen on that sub aren’t getting a lot of cover.

Disabled Nuclear sub? This is news to me. Are you talking about the missing Argentine sub? That one is diesel not nuclear though.

563
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:16:57pm

I was in a hotel this weekend and was flipping channels and picked up CNN where it had Huck-Sanders and she said the difference between Trump and Franken was that Trump never admitted to anything.

I almost hurled.

I also immediately clicked off.

I can’t stand to watch a single one of these fucking sociopaths for a single fucking second.

564
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:17:53pm

re: #562 danarchy

Disabled Nuclear sub? This is news to me. Are you talking about the missing Argentine sub? That one is diesel not nuclear though.

Yep…now edited to avoid further confusion.

565
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:18:21pm

re: #557 Big Beautiful Door

He forced an unwanted kiss on a woman. He mimed groping her breasts for a photo which he has admitted is demeaning to her. He grabbed another woman’s butt when he was posing for a photo with her at the State Fair. Lips, breasts, butt. How exactly are these allegations not sexual harassment?

That’s what investigations, in the Senate and, if necessary, in a court of law, are for.

Due process and the rule of law should be what we’re after, not a knee-jerk reaction to satisfy the Republicans, because they’ll never be satisfied and they’ll never stop at Franken, justified or not.

566
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:18:29pm

re: #423 allegro

I have known sexual predators. There is nothing I’ve seen thus far to suggest that Franken is anything close to being one. Know what I’m seeing as a huge clue?

Predators are guys who manipulate and maneuver to get women alone. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or experienced any exception to this. The LAST thing they want are witnesses. That’s how they get away with their predatory behavior for so long. (See Moore, Roy and Weinstein, Harvey for examples.) It always remains in the “he said she said” arena and we know who wins those in our culture, particularly because predators choose victims whose credibility will be denied.

The Franken accusations involve instances in what appear to be very public places with many witnesses. This is contradictory to predatory behavior. Can we please have some fucking perspective here?

I guess you didn’t read the first victim’s accusation. She claimed Franken did maneuver her to get her alone for the kiss he wanted to “rehearse.” I get that we all like Franken and don’t want to think him capable of this kind of stuff. But I’m afraid we’re all in for a disappointment. I really hope not.

567
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:19:04pm

re: #560 Belafon

What are they doing?

They want another democratic “autopsy” of the election (or rather, I presume, the primary).

I am done with anything Bernie. Fuck him. Fuck his supporters. I. Am. Done.

568
piratedan  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:21:07pm

re: #500 Big Beautiful Door

I’m glad that you’re disappointed in Franken, I am too, but I also understand why people don’t want to get into why their disappointment with Senator Franken should take precedence with all of the other unfolding events around us…

on the bad side, I never like to discover that any of my elected officials are human, naturally we’d like them all to be the best reflection of ourselves, but given the current reflections that we’re getting, perhaps we’re simply going to have to accept that we’re less than perfect. Also, depending upon the times and how interpersonal relationships have changed, what was once accepted now isn’t. Hell, what Moore did if placed in context of a 150 years ago might not even raise the eyebrows, as the definition of who is a child, what rights they have are completely different than today (not to mention the concept of marriage itself and its transformation).

I can also understand that we should be even handed in the handling of these transgressions and look at the actions of the players themselves and the context surrounding them. Franken has apologized, had his apology accepted and from everything I’ve read about the second incident, I’m leery about the details until more is known. What can be a friendly hand on the hip two decades ago can change depending upon ones politics it seems. An inappropriate hand on an adult is naturally taken with the seriousness it deserves but its not allowed to stand on its own because the GOP is claiming that its just as egregious (if not more so because Franken admitted he did something wrong and their guy hasn’t) as what Moore and Trump have been accused of.

Whereas the GOP folks are going the Nixonian route of denying everything to the point where they’re attempting to paint their behavior as normal and inoffensive and that all accusers are conspiring against them. As opposed to Senator Franken who apologized and welcomed and encouraged an Ethics investigation to answer any and all questions.

Another issue is how the GOP attempts to shanghai every movement that gives power to people they would just assume have none… we’ve seen it on issue after issue, voting rights, gun control, racial inequality and now sexual harassment… in each and every case, the GOP has overridden the original message, blurred the waters and diluted the issue. Some see the allegations against Senator Franken in the same light, given the tied to what organization employs Ms. Tweeden, I can understand why in this instance, people are dubious because it’s not as if Fox (and the guy who controls that network) haven’t made it clear who they favor.

Still, I want the discussion to take place but I understand why it’s not going in the direction that it should and its because if everyone would be held to the current standard of what is right and wrong, then that would lead to even more questions about what constitutes a moral and ethical fitness for someone to run for office and if that was the case, then the GOP would have difficulty in fielding a baseball team.

569
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:21:28pm

re: #567 MsJ

They want another democratic “autopsy” of the election (or rather, I presume, the primary).

I am done with anything Bernie. Fuck him. Fuck his supporters. I. Am. Done.

He just seems so eager to sabotage the Dems doesn’t he? Loves to talk about how you build form the ground up. Well let’s say this. I did not see Bernie anywhere in Virginia this fall. Bernie likes to claim he’s grassroots but he’s about Bernie.

570
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:22:18pm

re: #566 Big Beautiful Door

I guess you didn’t read the first victim’s accusation. She claimed Franken did maneuver her to get her alone for the kiss he wanted to “rehearse.” I get that we all like Franken and don’t want to think him capable of this kind of stuff. But I’m afraid we’re all in for a disappointment. I really hope not.

I guess you didn’t read Tweeden’s response to Franken’s apology, in which (paraphrasing here) she accepted the apology and didn’t wish for Franken to resign or lose his seat over it.

If there’s more to this second accusation (or more forthcoming), then that’s what the investigations need to get at and put the facts all out there.

Once more with feeling: “due process and the rule of law”.

571
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:22:29pm

re: #430 Targetpractice

You know what hurts the efforts to get sexual harassment taken seriously? Blowing allegations like these totally out of proportion, such that people on the outside looking in see the bar set so low that it’s entirely possible for accidental actions to be interpreted as harassment.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the DNC needs men to vote for it as surely as it needs women. And when those men hear allegations like these and calls for Franken’s immediate resignation, the whole “War on Men” BS that the wingnuts like to roll out there starts to gain a hint of truth.

Franken didn’t accidentally kiss the first victim, and he didn’t accidentally pose for that photo either.

572
Belafon  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:23:08pm

re: #567 MsJ

They want another democratic “autopsy” of the election (or rather, I presume, the primary).

I am done with anything Bernie. Fuck him. Fuck his supporters. I. Am. Done.

“The election earlier this month was great for the Democrats; not so great for Republicans or Sanders supporters.”

573
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:24:00pm
574
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:24:52pm

I’ve been trying to respond to everybody between phone calls, but I’ve obviously gotten behind. I know feelings about this issue with Franken are hot right now. Let me say again that if Franken wants an investigation and hearing, then by all means he is entitled to that. Its just my personal opinion that he should resign.

575
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:25:06pm

re: #572 Belafon

“The election earlier this month was great for the Democrats; not so great for Republicans or Sanders supporters.”

Ergo let’s shit on the best coalition formed by a Democratic president in the past 50 years some more.

576
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:25:18pm

re: #571 Big Beautiful Door

Franken didn’t accidentally kiss the first victim, and he didn’t accidentally pose for that photo either.

But did he accidentally put his hand on her butt? That’s the question the photo doesn’t answer and for which we only have the victim’s word that the act was intentional.

577
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:25:41pm

re: #568 piratedan

[long, thoughtful comment redacted, except for the little bit at the end]

…then the GOP would have difficulty in fielding a baseball team.

…that doesn’t get shot at.

578
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:26:14pm

re: #574 Big Beautiful Door

I’ve been trying to respond to everybody between phone calls, but I’ve obviously gotten behind. I know feelings about this issue with Franken are hot right now. Let me say again that if Franken wants an investigation and hearing, then by all means he is entitled to that. Its just my personal opinion that he should resign.

If it’s sunlight you want, you won’t get that if Franken resigns, unless criminal (or even civil) charges get filed down the line.

579
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:26:36pm

re: #570 TedStriker

I guess you didn’t read Tweeden’s response to Franken’s apology, in which (paraphrasing here) she accepted the apology and didn’t wish for Franken to resign or lose his seat over it.

If there’s more to this second accusation (or more forthcoming), then that’s what the investigations need to get at and put the facts all out there.

I know Tweeden accepted his apology. That doesn’t excuse his behavior. As Franken said himself, the photo is demeaning to all women.

580
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:27:02pm

re: #573 Kragar

[Embedded content]

If true, LOL at “Bob Mueller”.

581
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:27:03pm

re: #569 HappyWarrior

He just seems so eager to sabotage the Dems doesn’t he? Loves to talk about how you build form the ground up. Well let’s say this. I did not see Bernie anywhere in Virginia this fall. Bernie likes to claim he’s grassroots but he’s about Bernie.

good thing he’s on our side ///

582
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:28:09pm

re: #581 dangerman

good thing he’s on our side ///

I mean he didn’t even congratulate the Dem socialist that got elected here in Va. He’s all about himself becaues he really wants to sell a narrative that it’s Bernie against the big mean establishment even though he first got to Washington when I was in pre-school.

583
plf1953  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:32:34pm

re: #473 Big Beautiful Door

Hi All.

I’ve been lurking for quite some time, but since I saw no one challenge this remark, I felt I needed to jump in.

As far as my background, I’ve been a senior corp HR executive for many of my 40 years in business and have dealt with dozens of sexual harassment issues.

What Franken did - both what he’s been accused of and what he has admitted to - is NOT “textbook sexual haraassment.”

From the EEOC (sexual harassment in the employment context where power differentials are definitely in abundance):

Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted)

In Franken’sd case, he had no power over either of his accusers and there is no evidence of repeat offenses involving these same ladies. There is also no evidence that his behavior was necessarily unwanted at the time. Only in retrospect - some 11 and 7 years later, respectivly, is it now claimed to be unwanted.

As everyone here seems to agree, both incidents were distasteful and juvenile, but they don’t appear to rise to either the level of sexual harassment or hostility in the legal sense.

Anyway, carry on …

And its nice to be outed finally.

584
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:33:12pm

One question I have about Franken’s second accuser…

The story makes mention of the photo being taken at a ‘radio booth.’

I’d like to know which station manned that booth, and its ownership. If it came back that there was a Sinclair station involved, I’d be immediately suspicious.

585
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:33:18pm

Co-workers asked if I was ok.

586
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:33:57pm

re: #573 Kragar

Someone actually said Bob Mueller?

Rock the fuck on!

587
MsJ  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:35:39pm

re: #583 plf1953

Welcome, hatchling!

588
makeitstop  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:36:18pm

re: #585 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Co-workers asked if I was ok.

That was great! Timing is everything.

589
Kragar  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:38:21pm

re: #588 makeitstop

That was great! Timing is everything.

The beeps make it so great.

590
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:38:48pm

re: #574 Big Beautiful Door

I’ve been trying to respond to everybody between phone calls, but I’ve obviously gotten behind. I know feelings about this issue with Franken are hot right now. Let me say again that if Franken wants an investigation and hearing, then by all means he is entitled to that. Its just my personal opinion that he should resign.

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

591
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:41:45pm

re: #473 Big Beautiful Door

I’m not sure how you can think that. They are both textbook sexual harassment.

against my better judgement im gonna bite
ill state right off i dont know all the facts and ianal

this is co-opted off the eeoc and wikipedia - ymmv

i dont see sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, use of nasty or threatening language. it doesnt appear that there was any hostile or offensive work environment. and no one seems to have complained to anyone in authority at the time.

should they be subject to actual due process scrutiny, both incidents seem to be open to differing and questionable interpretations, and appear more as teasing, offhand and isolated, not frequent or severe. such incidents incidents that do not impose a “general civility code” tend to be excluded as harassment.

whether there will be more, well i dont predict the future. i prefer to simply wait and see, then know.

i dont see asymmetrical power, no bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, no unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors

that’s why its not “harassment”

refer to my post above about the evolution of use of words:
you want to call it “harassing”, fine. as i said, ymmv. i’d still find another word

592
plf1953  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:43:57pm

re: #448 Belafon

Hello again … don’t know if this has been responded to yet …

But targeted tax cuts - whether advocated by Rs or Ds - are just the right medicine to combat a recession.

They are the aboslute worst thing to do to an economy that’s booming and with very low unemployment. This is the situation we’re currently experiencing.

(Not to mention that these cuts are targeted at the wealthy and will have almost no favorable effect on growth.)

Tax cuts now risk killing the economy by causing inflation to heat up, thus resulting in both growth and job killing high interest rates.

593
stpaulbear  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:43:58pm

On the way in to work this morning there was a conversation on the MN public radio news station where someone was saying “We should get rid of Franken and get someone we like”. They may have been suggesting Ellison but I shut the damned radio off.

My prediction is that we’re going to “Oh gosh” ourselves into making Franken resign before Moore’s election. We’ll loose Franken and then Moore will win and be seated in the senate, and we’ll all be talking about how disappointing it is that democrats continue to fail us.

I’ve had a tendency to dismiss people who complain about how gutless democrats and progressives are when push comes to shove, but I believe that I am about to give up. I’m thinking the republicans get Ryan’s tax plan passed, trash Obamacare and the Sessions justice department gets full reign. Right at this moment I’m just feeling like we are totally self-fucked. We are so goddamned stupid.

594
danarchy  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:46:19pm

re: #583 plf1953

In Franken’sd case, he had no power over either of his accusers and there is no evidence of repeat offenses involving these same ladies. There is also no evidence that his behavior was necessarily unwanted at the time. Only in retrospect - some 11 and 7 years later, respectivly, is it now claimed to be unwanted.

I am not an HR professional nor a a lawyer, so I have no comment on most of your post, however In August of 2010 the second accuser posted the picture on her facebook and made a contemporaneous comment:

“Dude — Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!”

595
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:46:58pm

re: #593 stpaulbear

On the way in to work this morning there was a conversation on the MN public radio news station where someone was saying “We should get rid of Franken and get someone we like”. They may have been suggesting Ellison but I shut the damned radio off.

My prediction is that we’re going to “Oh gosh” ourselves into making Franken resign before Moore’s election. We’ll loose Franken and then Moore will win and be seated in the senate, and we’ll all be talking about how disappointing it is that democrats continue to fail us.

I’ve had a tendency to dismiss people who complain about how gutless democrats and progressives are when push comes to shove, but I believe that I am about to give up. I’m thinking the republicans get Ryan’s tax plan passed, trash Obamacare and the Sessions justice department gets full reign. Right at this moment I’m just feeling like we are totally self-fucked. We are so goddamned stupid.

Somebody we like? I don’t get it. I thought Franken was well liked by them or is this another using support of Bernie or Clinton barometer? Don’t give up. I think we can beat Moore and retake one of the Houses next year. I really think people are fed up wiht this crap administration and we’re oging to do it with or without hte help of the purer than thou.

596
BlueSpotinAL  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:49:55pm

Cake

597
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:50:44pm

Charlie Rose

598
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:50:47pm

re: #592 plf1953

The “pinkos” at Forbes agree:

599
lawhawk  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:51:47pm

Today Glenn Thrush was suspended by the NY Times for multiple allegations of harassment.

Tonight? Charlie Rose facing multiple allegations of harassment, including nudity.

Unfu… nope. Totally fucking believable. Far too many guys forget basic adage of keep your goddamned hands to yourselves unless you are in a consensual relationship (paraphrased).

600
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:53:08pm

re: #593 stpaulbear

On the way in to work this morning there was a conversation on the MN public radio news station where someone was saying “We should get rid of Franken and get someone we like”. They may have been suggesting Ellison but I shut the damned radio off.

My prediction is that we’re going to “Oh gosh” ourselves into making Franken resign before Moore’s election. We’ll loose Franken and then Moore will win and be seated in the senate, and we’ll all be talking about how disappointing it is that democrats continue to fail us.

I’ve had a tendency to dismiss people who complain about how gutless democrats and progressives are when push comes to shove, but I believe that I am about to give up. I’m thinking the republicans get Ryan’s tax plan passed, trash Obamacare and the Sessions justice department gets full reign. Right at this moment I’m just feeling like we are totally self-fucked. We are so goddamned stupid.

I won’t accuse any lizards of being such, but I do believe that a large portion of the calls within the ranks of the Left calling for Franken’s resignation are those who were going around as recently as last week declaring the DNC needed a “reckoning” about the sexual exploits of one William Jefferson Clinton. I don’t doubt for a second that there are Bros who see a Franken resignation as an opportunity to put Ellison in the Senate and give his seat back in HoR to a “true progressive.”

601
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:53:48pm

re: #597 Stanley Sea

Charlie Rose

[Embedded content]

If it’s Walter Cronkite next, I’ll eat my bicycle.

602
Weaselone  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:54:35pm

re: #594 danarchy

I am not an HR professional nor a a lawyer, so I have no comment on most of your post, however In August of 2010 the second accuser posted the picture on her facebook and made a contemporaneous comment:

I would point out that it was not the original caption for the photo, rather in response to another poster pointing out that there wasn’t a bible width of space between them. It doesn’t actually state he grabbed her and is a reaction to social shaming by the other commenter.

603
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:55:04pm
604
Barefoot Grin  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:56:18pm

Seems like there’s always a goddamn godsend for Republicans these days.

605
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:56:37pm

re: #603 Anymouse 🌹

[Embedded content]

Unless Al Franken changed his name to Doug Jones, no it’s not Yasher. And as wrong as it was, there’s a difference between inappropriately touching someone’s butt to sexually abusing underaged girls.

606
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:57:16pm

re: #604 Barefoot Grin

Seems like there’s always a goddamn godsend for Republicans these days.

Let me be confident. They thought they’d win Virginia too or that they’d at least make it close.

607
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:57:21pm

Never meet your heroes.. alone…

What I find odd is that Mister Mcfeely was pure as the driven snow with a name like that.
(Vague Captain Kangaroo ref)
/s

608
JordanRules  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:59:02pm
609
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 1:59:56pm

re: #592 plf1953

Hello again … don’t know if this has been responded to yet …

But targeted tax cuts - whether advocated by Rs or Ds - are just the right medicine to combat a recession.

They are the aboslute worst thing to do to an economy that’s booming and with very low unemployment. This is the situation we’re currently experiencing.

(Not to mention that these cuts are targeted at the wealthy and will have almost no favorable effect on growth.)

Tax cuts now risk killing the economy by causing inflation to heat up, thus resulting in both growth and job killing high interest rates.

GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington (goes to Forbes)

“If it’s enacted, the GOP tax cut now working its way through Congress will be the start of a decades-long economic policy disaster unlike any other that has occurred in American history.

There’s no economic justification whatsoever for a tax cut at this time. U.S. GDP is growing, unemployment is close to 4 percent (below what is commonly considered ‘full employment’), corporate profits are at record levels and stock markets are soaring. It makes no sense to add any federal government-induced stimulus to all this private sector-caused economic activity, let alone a tax cut as big as this one.”

“This is actually the ideal time for Washington to be doing the opposite.”

610
sagehen  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:00:34pm

re: #579 Big Beautiful Door

I know Tweeden accepted his apology. That doesn’t excuse his behavior. As Franken said himself, the photo is demeaning to all women.

And let’s treat everybody who smokes a joint as if they robbing pharmacies for Oxy. Somebody who doesn’t mow his front lawn often enough should be punished the same as the guy who’s had 3 rusted out old cars up on blocks for 8 years. Breaking a window is as bad as torching the house. Shoplifting a few candy bars is as bad as armed robbery of a jewelry store.

At some point, we have to understand that sliding scale or grading on a curve makes more sense than zero tolerance for misdemeanors. EVERYTHING ISN’T ALL THE SAME.

611
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:01:26pm

re: #598 Flying Squirrel Girl

The “pinkos” at Forbes agree:

[Embedded content]

beat me to it

612
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:01:34pm

re: #607 Kilroy was here

Never meet your heroes.. alone…

What I find odd is that Mister Mcfeely was pure as the driven snow with a name like that.
(Vague Captain Kangaroo ref)
/s

So vague, I remember that from Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood. I watched both shows (my younger siblings were my ‘excuse’ for the Mr. Rogers-watching. [McFeely was his middle name.]

613
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:02:36pm

re: #612 wrenchwench

So vague, I remember that from Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood. I watched both shows (my younger siblings were my ‘excuse’ for the Mr. Rogers-watching. [McFeely was his middle name]

Believe McFeely was his maternal grandfather. I liked Mr. Rogers. Seemed like a pleasant guy and a gentleman.

614
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:03:59pm

re: #613 HappyWarrior

Believe McFeely was his maternal grandfather. I liked Mr. Rogers. Seemed like a pleasant guy and a gentleman.

That follows a naming tradition among some people. I liked all the puppets.

615
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:04:57pm

re: #612 wrenchwench

So vague, I remember that from Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood. I watched both shows (my younger siblings were my ‘excuse’ for the Mr. Rogers-watching. [McFeely was his middle name]

Wow.. so long ago I forgot what show he was on…

616
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:05:19pm

re: #614 wrenchwench

That follows a naming tradition among some people. I liked all the puppets.

Yeah common in many cultures to use a last name as a middle name. My middle name is after my father’s father.

617
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:06:06pm

re: #615 Kilroy was here

Wow.. so long ago I forgot what show he was on…

I get Mr. Rogers’ puppets mixed up with those of Captain Kangaroo.

618
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:09:01pm

re: #599 lawhawk

Today Glenn Thrush was suspended by the NY Times for multiple allegations of harassment.

Tonight? Charlie Rose facing multiple allegations of harassment, including nudity.

[Embedded content]

Unfu… nope. Totally fucking believable. Far too many guys forget basic adage of keep your goddamned hands to yourselves unless you are in a consensual relationship (paraphrased).

yeahbutt…AL FRANKEN!!11!!!

619
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:10:25pm
620
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:10:27pm

re: #600 Targetpractice

I won’t accuse any lizards of being such, but I do believe that a large portion of the calls within the ranks of the Left calling for Franken’s resignation are those who were going around as recently as last week declaring the DNC needed a “reckoning” about the sexual exploits of one William Jefferson Clinton. I don’t doubt for a second that there are Bros who see a Franken resignation as an opportunity to put Ellison in the Senate and give his seat back in HoR to a “true progressive.”

no true lizard plans on voting for Bill Clinton ever again, so it weren’t none of us…

621
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:11:28pm

OK, I have karma to spare, I’m throwing this out there:

Al Franken was mocking patriarchy by feigning a boob-grab on a woman wearing body armor.

622
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:11:53pm

re: #602 Weaselone

I would point out that it was not the original caption for the photo, rather in response to another poster pointing out that there wasn’t a bible width of space between them. It doesn’t actually state he grabbed her and is a reaction to social shaming by the other commenter.

And those FB comments are not viewable by anyone other than her friends/family.
So we are hearing about those posts, at minimum, second hand.

623
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:13:25pm

re: #621 wrenchwench

OK, I have karma to spare, I’m throwing this out there:

Al Franken was mocking patriarchy by feigning a boob-grab on a woman wearing body armor.

Actually what it looks like—mocking gropieness. He hasn’t raised that defense, though, perhaps knowing it would be futile.

624
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:13:32pm

re: #617 wrenchwench

In the early 70s there was a local kids morning show personality in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area called Mr. Peppermint:

His son was Gibby Haynes, the founder/lead singer of the Butthole Surfers. Back in the day, he would show up at clubs where the band was playing to support his son. I always thought that was sweet/hilarious.

625
HappyWarrior  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:13:53pm

re: #619 Anymouse 🌹

[Embedded content]

The colonel is a public official. He doesn’t have to like that SSM is legal but he sure as hell has to respect it. Fucking Franklin Graham.

626
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:15:24pm

re: #610 sagehen

And let’s treat everybody who smokes a joint as if they robbing pharmacies for Oxy. Somebody who doesn’t mow his front lawn often enough should be punished the same as the guy who’s had 3 rusted out old cars up on blocks for 8 years. Breaking a window is as bad as torching the house. Shoplifting a few candy bars is as bad as armed robbery of a jewelry store.

At some point, we have to understand that sliding scale or grading on a curve makes more sense than zero tolerance for misdemeanors. EVERYTHING ISN’T ALL THE SAME.

and a sincere unequivocable apology is not the same thing as tears and gawd forgave me (squinting at every pulpit hypocrite when they get caught with their pants down).

627
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:15:46pm

re: #623 Decatur Deb

Actually what it looks like—mocking gropieness. He hasn’t raised that defense, though, perhaps knowing it would be futile.

I would argue that it might actually make his situation worse, rather than the sincere apology he offered instead.

628
Kilroy was here  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:17:05pm

re: #624 Flying Squirrel Girl

In the early 70s there was a local kids morning show personality in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area called Mr. Peppermint:

[Embedded content]

His son was Gibby Haynes, the founder/lead singer of the Butthole Surfers. Back in the day, he would show up at clubs where the band was playing to support his son. I always thought that was sweet/hilarious.

I raise you my childhood nightmare and a neighbor (Went to school with his son Ken)

Meet Rusty Nails, the Real Life Krusty the Clown

629
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:17:16pm

re: #601 wrenchwench

If it’s Walter Cronkite next, I’ll eat my bicycle.

Well, Guiness has a record entry for that, but they say they won’t take any more entries in that category because they consider it potentially dangerous.

telegraph.co.uk

Strangest diet

Michel Lotito (France) (b. 15 June 1950) of Grenoble, France, known as Monsieur Mangetout, ate metal and glass from 1959 until his death last year. His diet since 1966 included 18 bicycles, 15 supermarket trolleys, seven TV sets, six chandeliers, two beds, a pair of skis, a low-calorie Cessna light aircraft and a computer. He is said to have provided the only example in history of a coffin (handles and all) ending up inside a man. By October 1997, he had eaten nearly nine tons of metal

630
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:20:27pm

re: #629 Anymouse 🌹

Well, Guiness has a record entry for that, but they say they won’t take any more entries in that category because they consider it potentially dangerous.

telegraph.co.uk

At least he had French bicycles to eat. I have a between-bankruptcies Schwinn made in Taiwan.

Ooops, can’t eat it. A customer just came in to have me help her eat some cookies so she wouldn’t eat too many. I have the best customers.

631
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:23:03pm

re: #630 wrenchwench

At least he had French bicycles to eat. I have a between-bankruptcies Schwinn made in Taiwan.

Ooops, can’t eat it. A customer just came in to have me help her eat some cookies so she wouldn’t eat too many. I have the best customers.

LOL. From Wikipedia about this fellow:

He was awarded a brass plaque by the Guinness Book to commemorate his abilities. He consumed it as well.

632
wrenchwench  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:25:13pm

re: #631 Anymouse 🌹

LOL. From Wikipedia about this fellow:

Wikipedia can only maintain an article about him because he has passed (RIP).

633
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:29:28pm

re: #632 wrenchwench

Wikipedia can only maintain an article about him because he has passed (RIP).

good thing you added the (RIP) because after all that metal he ate, I did not want to know details on what he had passed…

634
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:29:29pm

re: #632 wrenchwench

Wikipedia can only maintain an article about him because he has passed (RIP).

Guy ate a whole Cessna 150. Someone also noted that the coffin he ate was probably the first time a coffin wound up inside a man (instead of the other way round).

635
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:30:46pm
636
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:30:50pm

This guy …

US congressman Greg Gianforte misled police after his assault of Guardian reporter Ben Jacobs in May, falsely stating that Jacobs had initiated physical contact and that the “liberal media … is trying to make a story”, according to the police incident report.

The records, made public on Friday, provide new details on the violent altercation that occurred on the eve of a special election to fill Montana’s sole seat in the US House of Representatives. Jacobs had approached the then candidate at his Bozeman campaign headquarters to ask a question about the Republican healthcare bill when Gianforte threw him to the ground and punched him.

theguardian.com (more)

637
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:34:17pm
638
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:36:24pm
639
Targetpractice  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:38:31pm

We hear “What if Franken was a Republican,” but how about “What if Moore was a Democrat”? Would any of us look at the accusations made against him or (for argument’s sake) Doug Jones and argue that they could live with a sexual predator being elected so long as the seat went blue? Would any of us buy comparisons of the man to Jesus or the Founding Fathers (both comparisons made about Moore)? Or entertain the idea of suing a local paper for printing allegations made against Moore?

If the answer to any or all of these is “No,” then there’s no further argument. We are not in Franken’s corner because of the party he belongs to, we’re in his corner because we believe he deserves a fair hearing and the opportunity to defend himself.

640
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:38:48pm

re: #637 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

i think they’re going with “vehemently denied” as the cover

641
Stanley Sea  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:39:40pm

Ugh

When the yam tweeted about it I automatically qustioned it.

642
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:39:44pm

apnews.com

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — An all-volunteer group of activists has defied the odds by collecting hundreds of thousands of voter signatures for a 2018 initiative to overhaul redistricting in Michigan — without having to pay a dime for a signature.

It’s a rarity in state politics outside of anti-abortion ballot drives, which have had a large base of support within churches and crucial organizational backing from Right to Life and other organizations.

The article goes on to say the group has far more signatures than required to get a ballot referendum in the next election.

643
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:39:46pm

re: #640 dangerman

i think they’re going with “vehemently denied” as the cover

of course they are…SHS already said it didn’t happen iffen ya don’t admit it…

644
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:43:22pm

re: #639 Targetpractice

We hear “What if Franken was a Republican,” but how about “What if Moore was a Democrat”? Would any of us look at the accusations made against him or (for argument’s sake) Doug Jones and argue that they could live with a sexual predator being elected so long as the seat went blue? Would any of us buy comparisons of the man to Jesus or the Founding Fathers (both comparisons made about Moore)? Or entertain the idea of suing a local paper for printing allegations made against Moore?

If the answer to any or all of these is “No,” then there’s no further argument. We are not in Franken’s corner because of the party he belongs to, we’re in his corner because we believe he deserves a fair hearing and the opportunity to defend himself.

yup

“our” reactions differ re: moore and franken because what they did was different.
not because of the party they belong to

“their” reactions differ because of the party each belongs to
their reactions are entirely, political and obvious to all.

645
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:44:47pm

The problem with tweets is they don’t give enough information. This fight is hardly over here (as I noted in the article I just wrote to the right).

646
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:47:23pm

I see our esteemed host just tweeted my article. Thank you Mr. Johnson.

647
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:47:25pm

re: #643 Backwoods_Sleuth

of course they are…SHS already said it didn’t happen iffen ya don’t admit it…

yeah but “vehemently”…watch:

you can argue with “denied”. He denied it. Yeah, of course he did. i still say he did it.

you cant argue with “vehemently” He vehemently denied it. Oh….

;-)

maybe i wasnt snarky enough the first time

648
darthstar  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:49:27pm

re: #194 Stanley Sea

And Glenn Thrush has just been suspended by the NYT

[Embedded content]

I would have suspended him for the hat.

649
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:50:50pm

re: #648 darthstar

I would have suspended him for the hat.

NotAllHats.

I sometimes wear a pink trilby in the middle of cowboy hat country.

650
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:51:00pm

re: #645 Anymouse 🌹

The problem with tweets is they don’t give enough information. This fight is hardly over here (as I noted in the article I just wrote to the right).

BREAKING: Nebraska approves Keystone XL pipeline, creating 35 new jobs and making the Koch Brothers $100B richer

35 whole jobs? not 3500, 35k, 35m? not a typo ///

business insider

As Donald Trump signed an executive order to advance construction on the Keystone XL Pipeline on January 24, he said the measure would create a “lot of jobs, 28,000 jobs, great construction jobs.”

651
Anymouse 🌹  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:52:31pm

re: #650 dangerman

It would provide many temporary construction jobs. The thirty-five represents the number of permanent jobs.

652
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 2:55:43pm

re: #484 Targetpractice

And what if nobody else comes forward? Or they do, but nothing more than lurid or horrific than what we’ve heard so far? Would you then agree that resignation is uncalled for?

Only Franken and his hypothetical other victims know if they exist or not. If they do, I would hope everyone would agree they should tell their stories if they want and should be believed. I think resignation would be appropriate now, but again, that is only my opinion and its Franken’s call. If more women come forward to say Franken forced kisses on them or grabbed their butts resignation would definitely be called for.

653
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:01:11pm

re: #505 Targetpractice

There’s also generally a pattern to the behavior. So far, the pattern is that Franken is a guy who has issues with inappropriate touching. That’s something that calls for counseling or sensitivity training, not capital punishment.

I think US Senators should be held to higher standards. And resignation is not even remotely capital punishment.

654
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:03:07pm

re: #511 dangerman

this is injecting a lot of politics where it maybe doesnt belong

if the MN gov was an R would you feel the same? if so, then why mention it at all?

I was responding to the claim that the Democrats would lose a vote in the Senate.

655
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:04:48pm

re: #652 Big Beautiful Door

Only Franken and his hypothetical other victims know if they exist or not. If they do, I would hope everyone would agree they should tell their stories if they want and should be believed. I think resignation would be appropriate now, but again, that is only my opinion and its Franken’s call. If more women come forward to say Franken forced kisses on them or grabbed their butts resignation would definitely be called for.

im gonna disagree
“Only Franken and his hypothetical other victims know if they exist or not.”

he may not know someone’s gonna decide to come forward with “he stuck his hand on my ass when we posed for a photo 7 years ago”.

and they should not be “believed”. what they should be is taken seriously, not summarily dismissed and an objective truth should be determined if at all possible.

656
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:05:37pm

re: #521 Bass Reeves

By the by, is there no other recourse than resignation?

Yes, I’ve said repeatedly that this is just my opinion, and its Franken’s call.

657
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:06:47pm

re: #654 Big Beautiful Door

I was responding to the claim that the Democrats would lose a vote in the Senate.

that’s my point. the political implications of resignation shouldnt matter. should they?

658
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:06:55pm

re: #655 dangerman

im gonna disagree
“Only Franken and his hypothetical other victims know if they exist or not.”

he may not know someone’s gonna decide to come forward with “he stuck his hand on my ass when we posed for a photo 7 years ago”.

and they should not be “believed”. what they should be is taken seriously, not summarily dismissed and an objective truth should be determined if at all possible.

I’ll agree with that.

659
JordanRules  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:07:08pm

Comment 645 followed by 646 is just perfect.

660
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:08:26pm

re: #658 Big Beautiful Door

did you see my #590?

we’re all good

661
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:09:05pm

re: #657 dangerman

that’s my point. the political implications of resignation shouldnt matter. should they?

In a perfect world, no. In a world in which the GOP is trying to screw us six ways from Sunday, I’m afraid politics does matter. I don’t like that, but its reality. The other side is pure evil.

662
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:11:06pm

re: #652 Big Beautiful Door

Only Franken and his hypothetical other victims know if they exist or not. If they do, I would hope everyone would agree they should tell their stories if they want and should be believed. I think resignation would be appropriate now, but again, that is only my opinion and its Franken’s call. If more women come forward to say Franken forced kisses on them or grabbed their butts resignation would definitely be called for.

I agree that they should tell their stories and we should listen with an open mind.
I do not agree that we should just automatically believe them just because.

663
Big Beautiful Door  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:12:21pm

re: #590 dangerman

[Embedded content]

xTzBu53EKcz8IN890AifwRjHurzykugMHTiDQBMSalW3rmcVryF/rnNm+heVMfQAzzA/FW43ci40/iZVaoH9UjePFcwnG72DKqPstlIu1XM4PrHKnIUgmAXfns9ZuDAH9K/E+ExzAdU=

664
Romantic Heretic  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:13:11pm

re: #583 plf1953

Thanks for the information. Welcome hatchling.

665
Decatur Deb  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:14:27pm

re: #635 Backwoods_Sleuth

Kentucky locks up more women than most states. Will lawmakers change that? [Embedded content]

Yes. Alabama lawmakers will change that by helping incarcerate more Alabama women.

666
dangerman  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:15:03pm

re: #663 Big Beautiful Door

[Embedded content]

667
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:26:24pm

re: #639 Targetpractice

We hear “What if Franken was a Republican,” but how about “What if Moore was a Democrat”? Would any of us look at the accusations made against him or (for argument’s sake) Doug Jones and argue that they could live with a sexual predator being elected so long as the seat went blue? Would any of us buy comparisons of the man to Jesus or the Founding Fathers (both comparisons made about Moore)? Or entertain the idea of suing a local paper for printing allegations made against Moore?

If the answer to any or all of these is “No,” then there’s no further argument. We are not in Franken’s corner because of the party he belongs to, we’re in his corner because we believe he deserves a fair hearing and the opportunity to defend himself.

Thank you, that’s what I’ve been trying to say all day.

Yet, even with that logical argument, some people, here and elsewhere, want nothing short of Franken’s head on a pike outside on Capitol Hill, before all investigatory avenues have been pursued.

668
TedStriker  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:27:32pm

re: #644 dangerman

yup

“our” reactions differ re: moore and franken because what they did was different.
not because of the party they belong to

“their” reactions differ because of the party each belongs to
their reactions are entirely, political and obvious to all.

Problem is, more than a few of “our” folks are falling into “their” trap.

669
Nyet  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:38:45pm

re: #655 dangerman

and they should not be “believed”. what they should be is taken seriously, not summarily dismissed and an objective truth should be determined if at all possible.

This. This is such bullshit to treat witness testimony as the holy writ rather than test it for credibility.

670
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 20, 2017 • 3:42:49pm

re: #669 Nyet

This. This is such bullshit to treat witness testimony as the holy writ rather than test it for credibility.

Doing that just makes it harder for the rest of us when the holy writ witness is found out to be not quite all that…


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