And Now, Live From Some Guy’s House: Knower, “Time Traveler”

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recorded at some guys house july 2017. Searing hot. Louis Cole - Drums, Genevieve Artadi - singing
with…
Rai Thistlethwayte - keyboard, Sam Wilkes - bass, Sam Gendel - saxophone

filmed by Daniel Sunshine

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494 comments

1
ipsos  Dec 1, 2017 • 8:52:30pm

I got CLd…

I am taking just a smidge of comfort inn the fact that we’re pushing within a few minutes of midnight and there is still *something* keeping the Shit Sandwich Act of 2017 from getting a final vote rammed through.

Every minute it stays exposed to scrutiny makes this thing look worse to the voters of 2018 and 2020, and the GOP knows it.

And they STILL have to make anything that survives tonight pass through conference committee.

I’m getting juiced up to go stand outside in DC and make noise. Who’s coming?

2
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 8:55:55pm

re: #1 ipsos

I’ll be out at McCain and Flakes AZ offices!
Again.

3
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 8:56:20pm
4
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2017 • 8:58:59pm

I think many of th know they’re on the way out. May as well gift themselves and their donors with a tax cut before they go.

5
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:01:09pm

re: #4 HappyWarrior

I think many of th know they’re on the way out. May as well gift themselves and their donors with a tax cut before they go.

The ultimate golden parachute.

6
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:03:05pm
7
wheat-dogg  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:05:20pm

Great short video about an art project from concept to realization.

From Dream to Reality

8
Interesting Times  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:05:24pm

Well played:

9
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:05:59pm

re: #6 jaunte

Priorities. Sigh.

10
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:06:19pm
11
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:09:30pm
12
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:09:56pm

The Pre-K was such a great idea. My niece has benefited so much from preschool.

13
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:12:53pm

Lindsey Vonn has won the Lake Louise Wolrd Cup Downhill 18 times.

She didn’t win today.

She’s okay, she skied down to the finish line on her own power, says she’s racing in the Super G tomorrow.

14
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:13:29pm

re: #328 Hecuba’s daughter

When I compared what was happening to 1930’s Germany, my RW brother mocked me and declaimed that anyone who resorts to Nazi comparisons has lost the argument. Looks like the Republicans are infested with actual real life Nazis. So we are transitioning from Ayn Rand sociopaths like McConnell and Ryan who worship the power of wealth to hate-infused racist sociopaths like Congressman Steven King with Trump as the intermediary who has a foot in both camps.

Mike Godwin revoked that rule, considering we’re dealing with actual Nazis.

A guinea pig for Curious Lurker, since I left a lonely last post on the previous thread (you folk move too fast for me):

15
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:15:02pm
16
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:15:22pm

re: #13 teleskiguy

And that’s why skiing can be so weird. After horrific-looking crashes (I’ve been in my fair share) most of the time you ski away uninjured. It’s a trip.

17
Interesting Times  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:16:11pm

This thread describes such a raging, nightmarish dumpster-fire microcosm of GOP/rightwing fuckery that even these excerpted tweets can’t convey the sheer bottomless pit of soulless depravity:

18
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:16:32pm

re: #16 teleskiguy

On the flip side sometimes a harmless looking fall can result in a sprained knee, broken ankle, etc, etc.

19
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:17:02pm

re: #17 Interesting Times

This thread describes such a raging, nightmarish dumpster-fire microcosm of GOP/rightwing fuckery that even these excerpted tweets can’t convey the sheer bottomless pit of soulless depravity:

Family values!

20
MsJ  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:17:03pm

Pence is on the hill. It’s happening.

21
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:18:02pm

re: #20 MsJ

Pence is on the hill. It’s happening.

Not necessarily. He was there for at least one of the Obamacare votes too.

22
HappyWarrior  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:18:46pm

Now that I think about it, I met some Hilldale grads once

23
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:19:04pm

re: #16 teleskiguy

Like this, Hermann Maier in the Nagano Olympics in 1998.

Hermann Maier - Nagano 1998

I watched that live on TV, I thought I had just witnessed death. He got up, grabbed his skis, and skied down. He went on to win Gold in the Super G and Giant Slalom races.

24
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:20:03pm
25
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:20:23pm
26
Interesting Times  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:22:07pm

re: #24 jaunte

Speaking of which, here’s a great response to that Avik guy’s disingenous dumbfuckery:

27
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:23:00pm

re: #21 Eclectic Cyborg

Not necessarily. He was there for at least one of the Obamacare votes too.

That can give one or two so-called moderate Republicans cover to vote against the bill or an amendment, and then go home to their constituents and say “I stood up for you, but we were outnumbered.”

That is exactly why they have brought Pence to the Hill every time. Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, none of them are moderates. It’s just the GOP trying to help them appear to be moderates.

28
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:23:37pm

re: #26 Interesting Times

The Declaration of Independence was handwritten. Somehow we managed ok.

Some of us were enslaved, but sure, parallels to today.

29
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:24:24pm

re: #18 Eclectic Cyborg

And death.

30
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:24:53pm
31
VegasGolfer  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:25:05pm

Let’s talk about Colin Kaepernick | Chart Party

Here’s a good video to share with friends or fb friends (rwnj’s) who say Colin Kaepernick doesn’t have a job because he took a knee, but because he sucked at football.

32
meteor  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:28:07pm
33
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:28:16pm
34
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:28:29pm
35
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:28:41pm

There’s a World Cup Men’s Downhill Race at Beaver Creek tomorrow. I might spectate. It would be from the finish line instead of how I’ve always spectated these races, next to the course on my own skis. I don’t have a pass to Beaver Creek this winter and they can take a hike if they think I’m paying $140 for a lift ticket.

36
Interesting Times  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:29:36pm

Dotard might actually read it, then…

37
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:29:40pm
38
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:35:45pm

re: #31 VegasGolfer

But it’s not just RWNJs who say he isn’t good enough at football to get the type of contract he wants.

Elway was trying to trade for him before last season; I would have wanted the GM tarred and feathered had he succeeded because Kaep produces maybe a little more than Nick Foles, but was earning 4 times as much that year (and has shown signs he was not inclined to sign a near-vet-minimum contract this year either).

Though I will grant that after the BAL incident this season, he may now actually be being colluded against to lock him out of the league (though speaking of ‘lockout’, that’s exactly what will happen if he forces the CBA to be reopened now).

39
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:38:10pm

It has often been said that FDR saved capitalism. The people currently running the country are doing their best to actively destroy it. Instead of being a force to improve lives and provide income to all Americans, it has been converted to a destructive force that concentrates an increasingly larger portion of wealth on those already wealthy and stripping resources from the poorest. Maybe it’s time to develop an alternative economic model that provides for a broader distribution of wealth. But that isn’t possible as long as Republicans remain in control. Too bad Johnson was entangled in the Vietnam war; without it, he may have permanently succeeded in transforming our society.

40
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:40:54pm
41
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:41:03pm

I bought an Alexa. Was not using it to its potential.

Tonight I said, play Toad The Wet Sprocket. My evening has been so bliss.

Remember this one?

Good Intentions - Toad the Wet Sprocket (HQ)

Beauty & exactly what I need to talk me down.

42
FormerDirtDart  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:42:43pm
43
VegasGolfer  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:43:35pm

re: #38 Chrysicat

I dont even think kaep even did a tryout, (I think whatever team did that would get a lot of flack from those people), let alone discuss a contract with any teams. I do have to admit I don’t follow football much anymore, its boring to me, and all the controversy surrounding the NFL lately doesn’t help. But I’m pretty sure kaep should be playing somewhere.

44
Belafon  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:45:02pm

re: #39 Hecuba’s daughter

The CRA and VRA ended Democrats chances of making further changes to the economic structure of the country.

45
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:47:40pm

re: #44 Belafon

And the worst part of all is that we’re going to even lose those as unconstitutional after only half a century and it’ll take constitutional amendments to resurrect them.

Constitutional amendments we probably could never have passed, even when all the racial strife was being buried below the surface, like when Bill Cosby was America’s Model Father.

46
The Ghost of a Flea  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:51:39pm

re: #10 goddamnedfrank

Narcissism in the less-than-clinical sense.

You try and merge your ego with a concept because you can imagine how it will grant you social currency, and when you fail to get that, you desecrate that concept for failing you. All people think this way to some degree…shitty fashion choices, “strategies” to attract friends or mates, any vague notion that fails and becomes something that’s repellent…but there’s a point where it becomes pathological and creepy.

“Belief” is held to the extent that belief is gratifying. When it isn’t gratifying, either the belief is discarded and then replaced, or the premises that compose those beliefs are carved out like the skin suit in Silence of the Lambs. If you’ve ever read “On Bullshit,” this phenomenon is sort of the same, but with ideas rather than veracity. A bullshitter isn’t a liar because they simply don’t care about veracity beyond its immediate use-value. Cranks believe, but don’t care about the internal coherence of belief beyond the needs of the moment.

And mostly that use-value is calculated by how a concept provides license, prestige, or a sense of personal power. It’s not some kind of coincidence that charismatic leader types get close to God (in their own understanding) and suddenly God gives them a bunch of footnotes to what are supposed to be hard limits. Usually about fucking and hurting people.

Personally, I think this explains the “horseshoe effect.” It’s not really that the ideas converge, but that extreme positions are attractive to people who want to emphasize their distinctiveness and to feel powerful and important compared to others. Nuance, skepticism, and complexity kill the buzz. And if we’re going into extra innings, this also explains the pattern of licking-the-ear-of-guignol performative “I was an X, but they fucked up and now I’m the inverse because X was totally wrong” you see over and over and over.

47
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:51:44pm

re: #40 Anymouse 🌹

[Embedded content]

Agreed. It’s vital for Democrats, if and when they get the chance, to eliminate funding for white rural areas and the bigots who live there. Take away their military bases, their highway funds, their airport funding. Blow up the TVA dams now that we don’t need the power for the Manhattan Project. Force them to live they way they continually vote to live, as the cattle of feudal lords.

48
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:54:06pm
49
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:55:33pm
50
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:55:47pm

re: #42 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

51
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:56:47pm

re: #47 Brian J.

Agreed. It’s vital for Democrats, if and when they get the chance, to eliminate funding for white rural areas and the bigots who live there. Take away their military bases, their highway funds, their airport funding. Blow up the TVA dams now that we don’t need the power for the Manhattan Project. Force them to live they way they continually vote to live, as the cattle of feudal lords.

I’m not sure if I am to take this post seriously, or not. If it is serious, you need to reread the preamble to the Constitution which stresses the basis of this nation’s founding on the “Common Good”. If it is snark, I agree. Totally stupid policy position. Tags would be nice, in any case.

52
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:57:47pm

re: #47 Brian J.

Agreed. It’s vital for Democrats, if and when they get the chance, to eliminate funding for white rural areas and the bigots who live there. Take away their military bases, their highway funds, their airport funding. Blow up the TVA dams now that we don’t need the power for the Manhattan Project. Force them to live they way they continually vote to live, as the cattle of feudal lords.

I am not a bigot.

I think you’re a little over the top here. The converse of that is conservatives doing the same to Mass., Calif., and NY.

Since the Republicans are already removing funding from conservative voters, it is vital for Democrats to make sure they don’t shift the blame (and run candidates in every election, dammit).

And if you are going to advocate for driving my state into penury (despite the fact this red state pays in more than it takes out from the Feds), are you going to provide an airlift and refugee programme for liberals first, or are we just “collateral damage?”

53
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2017 • 9:58:00pm

re: #17 Interesting Times

This thread describes such a raging, nightmarish dumpster-fire microcosm of GOP/rightwing fuckery that even these excerpted tweets can’t convey the sheer bottomless pit of soulless depravity:

[Embedded content]

When I get direct mail from Hillsdale (don’t ask me why—I still haven’t figured out how I got on their list) I take it immediately to the dumpster because I can’t sleep with that odious crap in my house.

54
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:00:38pm

re: #53 BeachDem

When I get direct mail from Hillsdale (don’t ask me why—I still haven’t figured out how I got on their list) I take it immediately to the dumpster because I can’t sleep with that odious crap in my house.

Good kindling, though.

55
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:01:00pm

re: #47 Brian J.

Maybe you missed the fairly obvious fact that rural areas aren’t exclusively white, or Republican.

56
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:01:52pm
57
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:03:29pm
58
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:05:13pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Snap!!

59
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:05:35pm
60
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:06:45pm

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is increasingly alarmed by what he sees as secret talks between Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, and Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — fearful that the discussions could backfire and tip the region into chaos, according to three people familiar with Tillerson’s concerns

The central goal of the Kushner-Prince Mohammed negotiations, as described by two people with knowledge of the talks, is for an historic agreement featuring the creation of a Palestinian state or territory backed financially by a number of countries including Saudi Arabia, which could put tens of billions of dollars toward the effort.

bloomberg.com

61
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:06:51pm

re: #47 Brian J.

Are you a eugenicist?

62
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:07:50pm
63
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:08:40pm

re: #61 teleskiguy

Are you a eugenicist?

Golly, I wish you wouldn’t go there. It’s nothing but hell in a bucket of blood when you use that word.

64
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:08:58pm

WE SHOULD TAKE ALL THE WHITE FARMERS’ LAND WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP AND SALT IT OVER. THAT’LL TEACH ‘EM!!!

65
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:09:19pm

re: #62 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Orange Country is going to revolt.

66
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:11:06pm

re: #65 goddamnedfrank

They should. The whole thing is idiotic.

67
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:11:08pm

re: #54 austin_blue

Good kindling, though.

I would fear noxious fumes (have you ever seen the crap they send out?) Plus, I don’t have a fireplace.

68
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:11:49pm
69
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:12:06pm

re: #67 BeachDem

I would fear noxious fumes (have you ever seen the crap they send out?) Plus, I don’t have a fireplace.

Fire pit!

70
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:12:31pm

re: #63 austin_blue

Golly, I wish you wouldn’t go there. It’s nothing but hell in a bucket of blood when you use that word.

Our pal Brian J. has openly wished for collapse and elimination of certain populations in the United States numerous times. I want to know how he feels about eugenics.

71
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:13:02pm
72
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:13:06pm
73
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:14:58pm

re: #70 teleskiguy

Our pal Brian J. has openly wished for collapse and elimination of certain populations in the United States numerous times. I want to know how he feels about eugenics.

Then don’t feed the troll. It’s a pointless exercise, wasting time and brain cells. We have a republic to save, man!

74
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:15:20pm

re: #70 teleskiguy

GAH

75
CleverToad  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:15:50pm

re: #47 Brian J.

Agreed. It’s vital for Democrats, if and when they get the chance, to eliminate funding for white rural areas and the bigots who live there. Take away their military bases, their highway funds, their airport funding. Blow up the TVA dams now that we don’t need the power for the Manhattan Project. Force them to live they way they continually vote to live, as the cattle of feudal lords.

Forgot the sarc tags.
Even with ‘em, if you were trying for ‘A Modest Proposal’ you missed the Swiftian mark.

76
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:17:32pm

I’m just waiting for the rest of the world to pull the plug on the dollar and then dump Treasury notes.

Trump and the RepubliKKKlans are doing everything they can to bankrupt us.

77
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:18:26pm

re: #76 Joe Bacon 🌹

I’m just waiting for the rest of the world to pull the plug on the dollar and then dump Treasury notes.

Trump and the RepubliKKKlans are doing everything they can to bankrupt us.

If you’re not stoopid wealthy it might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin.

78
makeitstop  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:19:19pm
79
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:19:39pm
80
FormerDirtDart  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:21:21pm
81
makeitstop  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:22:58pm

The smell of desperation gently wafts through the air…

82
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:25:16pm

re: #70 teleskiguy

Our pal Brian J. has openly wished for collapse and elimination of certain populations in the United States numerous times. I want to know how he feels about eugenics.

I think it’s a fair question, since I would be a target (just as those like me were in the past). I haven’t heard an answer yet on how many liberals or minorities he’d be willing to sacrifice yet, either.

83
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:25:36pm

Instagram

A beautiful shot of the Castle, thanks @photojohnphoto. Hopefully we’ll be skiing it soon!

Alta Ski Area is currently closed to uphill traffic. Thanks ASP. .
.
#ski #skialta #altaskiarea

Weather forecast still leaves a lot of the southern Rocky Mountains high and dry. We need snow, damn it!

84
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:25:42pm

re: #75 CleverToad

Forgot the sarc tags.
Even with ‘em, if you were trying for ‘A Modest Proposal’ you missed the Swiftian mark.

Indeed! Swift was suggesting a viable alternative for the English people to increase their available sources for the consumption of animal protein. BJ seems to suggest that it simply rot in the fields of rural America. How wasteful.

85
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:26:33pm

re: #83 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Weather forecast still leaves a lot of the southern Rocky Mountains high and dry. We need snow, damn it!

How’s CB?

86
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:26:44pm

re: #82 Anymouse 🌹

I think it’s a fair question, since I would be a target (just as those like me were in the past). I haven’t heard an answer yet on how many liberals or minorities he’d be willing to sacrifice yet, either.

Brian has departed the field of discussion.

87
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:27:50pm

re: #62 jaunte

[Embedded content]

goopers may be digging their legislative graves with this

i have a little business on the side which is a pass thru LLC. the personal rate i pay on it has been an advantage. under this bill it becomes a liability

88
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:28:13pm

re: #77 teleskiguy

If you’re not stoopid wealthy it might be a good idea to learn how to speak Mandarin.

I’ll work on my Polish since they seem to be doing better than us now in economic growth, and Steve King wants to deport “my kind” anyway.

Ever since Trump was elected, we’ve been carrying our passports in our car glovebox. Might need ‘em.

89
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:28:28pm

re: #82 Anymouse 🌹

I think it’s a fair question, since I would be a target (just as those like me were in the past). I haven’t heard an answer yet on how many liberals or minorities he’d be willing to sacrifice yet, either.

Elvis has just left the building…

90
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:29:25pm

re: #85 austin_blue

How’s CB?

14” base (all man made), 25” total snow this winter. There’s two runs open. So, not good.

91
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:30:41pm

The Democrats need to adopt the Gingrich approach, nationalize all future elections, and demonize the Republicans. There have to be good ads, even if based on quotes out of context, from the spectacle in the Senate. There isn’t a single Republican legislator in Washington who has stood up for the American people and for what’s right. You don’t win by playing nice.

92
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:30:51pm

re: #86 jaunte

Brian has departed the field of discussion.

You all have posted a bad post.

I know Brian J as a provider of up to the date voting returns in races we don’t pay attention to. I really appreciate his contribution.

Ya’ll remember his election night posts??

I hate how one bad post gets the pile on. Fuck, I’ve had many. You all have had at least one.

RE-LAX & get over your pile on

93
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:31:03pm

As some day it may happen that tax loopholes must be done
McConnell’s got a little list - He’s got a little list

Don’t worry, there are thousands more loopholes for the rich coming our way!
94
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:31:06pm

re: #89 Joe Bacon 🌹

Elvis has just left the building…

When challenged on a position to support it, he neither conceded nor supported it?

Religious apologists do that.

95
Belafon  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:32:38pm

What’s happening with the bill right now?

96
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:33:38pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

You all have posted a bad post.

I know Brian J as a provider of up to the date voting returns in races we don’t pay attention to. I really appreciate his contribution.

Ya’ll remember his election night posts??

I hate how one bad post gets the pile on. Fuck, I’ve had many. You all have had at least one.

RE-LAX & get over your pile on

Nope. Someone calls for genocide just because I live in a red state, I will pile on.

If he can’t defend his position, that’s his problem, not mine.

That’s sort of like the arguments you occasionally hear about Hitler: Well, there was that genocide thing, but he completed the Autobahns and built up the economy.

97
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:33:47pm

re: #90 teleskiguy

14” base (all man made), 25” total snow this winter. There’s two runs open. So, not good.

Well, fuck. I assume A-basin and the runs around it are pretty much dead?

98
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:34:19pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

It is true that he is no longer in the thread.

99
BeachDem  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:34:21pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

7Poecx0N767EeHUSaoK5twHnNlJYX3jTLcBira8CqxqqrDykHQf1GTR5fEGVLmfB+rkA498wV7jn97eJ/LeRaPoALFVEDYw/YQF7Ua7CoA4gbn9yRNNp+xbRq7AXHOYIRPn/YcMLga4=

100
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:34:34pm
101
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:36:23pm

Yay! My sweetie just brought me homemade pizza… . time to chow down.

102
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:36:48pm

re: #97 austin_blue

Well, fuck. I assume A-basin and the runs around it are pretty much dead?

A-Basin and Loveland are the best places to ski in Colorado right now. The runs are all man-made, but they have more of them. Both those mountains are higher than almost all the ski areas in Colorado - you’re above timberline a third of the way up those ski areas - so they’ve had prime snowmaking weather every night for weeks.

103
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:37:18pm

re: #95 Belafon

What’s happening with the bill right now?

104
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:38:02pm
105
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:39:30pm
106
Weaselone  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:40:04pm

I do get Brian J’s frustration. As the resident of a major city in a blue state, I highly resent the fact that a sizable chunk of rural red state residents believe me and my fellow city dwellers are lazy moochers siphoning off their tax dollars when the reality is that in general tax dollars flow from urban to rural areas and from states like mine to red states.

107
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:41:10pm

re: #106 Weaselone

Doesn’t make it okay to call for their economic collapse and elimination.

108
CleverToad  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:43:30pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

I figured it was an attempt at satire, but it didn’t come off well, in my humble.
Common difficulty of written posts, when you don’t have verbal or facial cues to convey the sarcastic drips.

109
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:43:59pm

re: #106 Weaselone

I do get Brian J’s frustration. As the resident of a major city in a blue state, I highly resent the fact that a sizable chunk of rural red state residents believe me and my fellow city dwellers are lazy moochers siphoning off their tax dollars when the reality is that in general tax dollars flow from urban to rural areas and from states like mine to red states.

And yet that’s exactly what he did: Rural residents are lazy moochers siphoning liberal areas’ tax dollars, so screw ‘em.

I wonder how much food you can grow in cities.

110
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:45:40pm
111
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:45:50pm

re: #107 teleskiguy

Doesn’t make it okay to call for their economic collapse and elimination.

words on a blog words on a blog words on a blog

you are overreacting

112
CleverToad  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:46:20pm

re: #104 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Murkowski

113
Weaselone  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:46:26pm

re: #109 Anymouse 🌹

And yet that’s exactly what he did: Rural residents are lazy moochers siphoning liberal areas’ tax dollars, so screw ‘em.

I wonder how much food you can grow in cities.

Are you under the impression that city dwellers don’t pay for the food we get?

114
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:46:54pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

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

115
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:47:09pm

re: #106 Weaselone

I do get Brian J’s frustration. As the resident of a major city in a blue state, I highly resent the fact that a sizable chunk of rural red state residents believe me and my fellow city dwellers are lazy moochers siphoning off their tax dollars when the reality is that in general tax dollars flow from urban to rural areas and from states like mine to red states.

I live in Los Angeles. I know that millions of brainwashed Christians pray for Sodom San Francisco and Gomorrah Hollywood to sink into the sea—or get nuked by North Korea…

116
The Major  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:48:10pm

The NRO’s Andrew McCarthy is one clueless fuck…..

117
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:48:54pm
118
jaunte  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:49:03pm
119
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:49:30pm

re: #118 jaunte

Fuck em all.

120
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:49:35pm

re: #47 Brian J.

re: #111 Stanley Sea

words on a blog words on a blog words on a blog

you are overreacting

Well, let’s recap what he wrote:

Agreed. It’s vital for Democrats, if and when they get the chance, to eliminate funding for white rural areas and the bigots who live there. Take away their military bases, their highway funds, their airport funding. Blow up the TVA dams now that we don’t need the power for the Manhattan Project. Force them to live they way they continually vote to live, as the cattle of feudal lords.

Nope, I don’t think it’s an overreaction.

Not everyone is a bigot in red states. Not everyone is a conservative in red states.

When called out on blowing up TVA dams and force people to live like cattle, he left rather than say it was over-the-top hyperbole or some sort of joke gone horribly wrong.

He would not admit that; he left.

Calling for genocide is not a joke, and I will call it out every time I see it.

121
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:49:35pm

re: #102 teleskiguy

A-Basin and Loveland are the best places to ski in Colorado right now. The runs are all man-made, but they have more of them. Both those mountains are higher than almost all the ski areas in Colorado - you’re above timberline a third of the way up those ski areas - so they’ve had prime snowmaking weather every night for weeks.

Well at least someone will be making money. I loved A-basin when I was a kid. Granted, I busted a fibula and nearly twisted an ankle off (Hello, Rotomats!) when I was transitioning from the upper bowl to the forested trails in heavy powder, but my Da grew up in Denver and it was our powder place.

(Semi-pro tip: If you are skiing in heavy powder after a wind storm/blizzard the night before, and one ski tip disappears, throw yourself sideways immediately or the guys in yellow day-glo are going to help you down the mountain and into the ambulance. You just tucked under a fallen branch, covered by fresh snow. It hurts a lot and your season is done.)

122
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:50:26pm

re: #114 JordanRules

w1G9b2TBUPB8IvRQYJGpt8fWca+y60N9uC47L6utpbvy9lZRqsWp6xoRaMpyXJS8gZKuyL8oQgv+zG1ZhQdJM962ALczBoVr1uo2e9WoY1DE8lV5q1XTv7w63eLwgWmnsT/6PMY0o+LBdNeMgVJaoWZQbt/Zxyk6qUQ2ah+I3cjaOw8z7lQJ63SzZGVlQPMptJ4tvstuwwhIJeLs66qA3bZRGVNBBO/y1P/z497cFk4HJLMVDnwUn7hF5X1H9KjnnzRK+R+S9XYKRi/piKNcXYCjt2+xXMut/5iIi22HlCBOGWRK1LY7HGlh+fQzrBT1F0jG+YMUhVARjIoF/i4jTeadSKtbZ30g

123
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:50:49pm
124
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:51:59pm

re: #121 austin_blue

The best powder is when *both* ski tips disappear. Best days of my life were days when the powder was up to my eyeballs.

125
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:52:05pm

The List of Shame

126
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:52:24pm

It passed

127
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:53:25pm
128
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:53:50pm

re: #113 Weaselone

Are you under the impression that city dwellers don’t pay for the food we get?

No, but the call was to let rural areas collapse. That’s where the food is grown. Hence my question wondering if cities can grow food if folk in rural areas are left to fend for themselves.

I would never suggest not supporting liberal areas struck by natural disaster (such as hurricanes that will never hit where I live). Why would someone suggest such things for where I live?

On the pittance I get for VA disability, I could never afford to live in a place like New York or Los Angeles. I’d be homeless again.

129
The Major  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:54:19pm

re: #88 Anymouse 🌹

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

130
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:56:42pm

re: #126 Stanley Sea

It passed

We knew it would, ever since it became clear that Flake, Collins, and Murkowski were sufficiently bought off; Pence wouldn’t have to tie-break and Corker’s lone no vote meant absolutely bupkis.

Now it goes to the House for reconciliation, where, barring a fucking Christmas miracle, it’ll likely pass, then to Trump’s desk for passage.

Fuck our lives…

131
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:57:13pm

There is a long-running, almost metaphysical, argument about the GOP’s deficit hawkery. One school of thought holds that it has always been pure cynicism. Republicans passed the Bush tax cuts without offsets and paid for neither Medicare Part D nor the Iraq War. When they began decrying the deficit and debt during President Obama’s administration, under this theory, it was nothing but opportunistic political attacks, and it was obvious they would be abandoned as soon as Republicans regained power.

The response many Republicans gave was that the party had lost its way under George W. Bush, but it had recognized its mistakes and rediscovered its fiscally conservative soul. The Tea Party and its relentless campaign of primary challenges was proof the Republican Party had changed, and would stay changed.

The House and Senate passage of the GOP tax bills shows the cynics had it right.

132
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:58:23pm

re: #129 The Major

Well, that wasn’t private … your brackets appear to be fouled up.

I have to stay and fight: I can’t afford to move, and no nation would take me anyway as a disabled baby boomer with a high school education.

133
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 10:59:06pm

re: #122 Stanley Sea

mSZrp4EopoyfDKC90Fo7vSdyAABIDdL1lMrijZtbih38Lwv0pKa+T57o7LqvOOCkqkfdtfLSOtBwgL/WbECGReK8CnvSZoK7XronNHhGB2qi93xm8wXeQEfk57ZduantAzlFKq0O/rJwZKqsjTKABFjWiL5eoDRh9XnQu0F7O2vlRg1NMHdjPiTT7/2HkoYq36eumj9H7b0cYX3cO4RxszwT7wYCNYdE0LTl2Q10rPdI9MBsv5ZuOUYweoNxUc4att2kFwU8LSIaDyncB6njeLILP/pauwbrLvi8qkCUm3Wn3FBRlxtaElZnNiBz2Ao9YyCeoA895D4hjM5c1eNJkCLdV+6jvqfcNFPfZV+2mw0gcCpP577AqPToxEXEMERZ7PFXjnPGlIh4Vo/cHw+vnH/+LYOvPYGkhIwzyEe8EBEiQX06qCyFKgLAZQT+W2fiWP9CIurErQ+fXntykBTEnv+H1fMJBhE1

134
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:02:11pm

re: #131 teleskiguy

William Jennings Bryan, calling GOP “fiscal conservatives” liars since 1896.

135
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:02:11pm

re: #128 Anymouse 🌹

No, but the call was to let rural areas collapse. That’s where the food is grown. Hence my question wondering if cities can grow food if folk in rural areas are left to fend for themselves.

I would never suggest not supporting liberal areas struck by natural disaster (such as hurricanes that will never hit where I live). Why would someone suggest such things for where I live?

On the pittance I get for VA disability, I could never afford to live in a place like New York or Los Angeles. I’d be homeless again.

The food is grown on large factory farms that most rural people have no more to do with than most urban people.

The Republicans want to rob California, New York and Massachusetts; then they shouldn’t be allowed to cadge funds for Alabama, Texas, or Wyoming. If they want to live without their “feral gummint,” let them experience the consequences!

136
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:02:36pm

re: #132 Anymouse 🌹

Well, that wasn’t private … your brackets appear to be fouled up.

I have to stay and fight: I can’t afford to move, and no nation would take me anyway as a disabled baby boomer with a high school education.

You aren’t alone. Rheumatoid Arthritis and Type 2 keep me stuck here…

137
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:03:11pm

well, the tariff of abominations has passed the senate

138
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:04:00pm

re: #135 Brian J.

The food is grown on large factory farms that most rural people have no more to do with than most urban people.

The Republicans want to rob California, New York and Massachusetts; then they shouldn’t be allowed to cadge funds for Alabama, Texas, or Wyoming. If they want to live without their “feral gummint,” let them experience the consequences!

Not everyone in a rural area works on a farm, as many of them run businesses necessary to keep agriculture going, teachers, doctors, &c., or work in local government (cough cough).

I can’t speak for rural areas I don’t live in, but I can assure you everything around here is family farms and ranches.

139
allegro  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:05:02pm

I think this is not a win for the GOP. Far from it.

I think it spells their desperate, gasping end. This ghastly display of greed and self-service to their own enrichment at the clear expense of the American people is such a blatant, in-your-face-fuck-you that it seems like willing suicide, as though the GOP chose drinking hemlock as superior to a firing squad.

140
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:05:33pm

re: #138 Anymouse 🌹

Not everyone in a rural area works on a farm, as many of them run businesses necessary to keep agriculture going, teachers, doctors, &c., or work in local government (cough cough).

I can’t speak for rural areas I don’t live in, but I can assure you everything around here is family farms and ranches.

According to the Census Bureau, only about 1% of Americans operate farms.

141
Weaselone  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:05:53pm

re: #128 Anymouse 🌹

I would never suggest that the people in red states and rural areas should be left hanging, let alone that existing infrastructure be torn down to spite their residents. It would just be nice if they reciprocated the feeling and didn’t elect the very assholes who vote against things like disaster aid or for things like taxing grad students for covered tuition.

142
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:07:45pm

re: #141 Weaselone

I would never suggest that the people in red states and rural areas should be left hanging, let alone that existing infrastructure be torn down to spite their residents. It would just be nice if they reciprocated the feeling and didn’t elect the very assholes who vote against things like disaster aid or for things like taxing grad students for covered tuition.

Why? They want no government interference or protection from predators, and have done everything humanly possible to communicate this desire. I merely ask that they be given what they want.

And yes, in time of natural disasters, they should be given the only two things that they claim are effective- thoughts and prayers. None of this filthy “aid” or “money” or “reconstruction funding.” That stuff’s for effete liberals.

143
JordanRules  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:08:22pm
144
allegro  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:09:34pm

re: #135 Brian J.

The food is grown on large factory farms that most rural people have no more to do with than most urban people.

The Republicans want to rob California, New York and Massachusetts; then they shouldn’t be allowed to cadge funds for Alabama, Texas, or Wyoming. If they want to live without their “feral gummint,” let them experience the consequences!

At least get your facts in order. Texas pays more than it gets in federal funds.

145
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:09:35pm

re: #130 TedStriker

We knew it would, ever since it became clear that Flake, Collins, and Murkowski were sufficiently bought off; Pence wouldn’t have to tie-break and Corker’s lone no vote meant absolutely bupkis.

Now it goes to the House for reconciliation, where, barring a fucking Christmas miracle, it’ll likely pass, then to Trump’s desk for passage.

Fuck our lives…

It’s a reason to keep the pressure up. Keep calling.

The good news for Drumpf is that he got a legislative win. The bad news for Drumpf is that he is probably going to die in a Federal prison.

The bad news for the R’s is that this is a shit show and if we keep the pressure on them, they may roll back some of the worst portions of the bill in reconciliation. OK, probably not, but still…

Resist. Impeach.

146
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:10:03pm
147
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:10:13pm
148
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:11:58pm

Odd? It’s that horse race both sides bullshit is what it is.

149
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:12:00pm

re: #144 allegro

At least get your facts in order. Texas pays more than it gets in federal funds.

Only if you count offshore oil drilling.

150
Stanley Sea  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:12:07pm

re: #133 JordanRules

Nc7KA5+q4/fU2WkAUqm7OgMVRVKiHdSmSN6vCpckyjuK7AAJtIjCTtPvvCKJljN5rXXEL377X7k=

151
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:13:02pm
152
Chrysicat  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:13:09pm
153
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:13:20pm

re: #135 Brian J.

The food is grown on large factory farms that most rural people have no more to do with than most urban people.

The Republicans want to rob California, New York and Massachusetts; then they shouldn’t be allowed to cadge funds for Alabama, Texas, or Wyoming. If they want to live without their “feral gummint,” let them experience the consequences!

You still haven’t outlined your plan to airlift liberals out and provide us refugee status who didn’t vote for this crapfest (or in state government didn’t vote because there were no candidates).

This is how money distorts politics:

A couple years ago, my state legislature passed a bill to repeal the death penalty. The state governor vetoed it. Despite being majority conservatives, the legislature overrode the veto and the death penalty was repealed.

Then our new governor came in. He paid out of his own pocket to put a referendum on the ballot to reinstate the death penalty, then paid millions of dollars in advertising to support the referendum.

No Democratic Party pushback. The party let the Republicans go unchallenged. Quelle Surprise, the referendum overturned the legislature. (Pesky low voter turnout from liberals who apparently didn’t care if the death penalty was reinstated or not.)

The state couldn’t kill anyone on death row though (no drugs). The previous governor got caught out by the DEA (tipped off by UPS in India) that the drugs were being illegally imported, purchased illegally with state tax money.

Another example: The Keystone XL Pipeline. It was people in this red state that fought off the pipeline in the state supreme court. There weren’t protestors from New York or Los Angeles at the statehouse protesting, though they were making lots of noise.

Round two is being fought now, and it appears that because the route approved was not correct, that TransCanada is going to abandon the project (though we’ll breathe a sigh of relief when that happens).

If this was an issue of “we get our money and screw the rest of the planet,” all those conservative hunters, fishers, ranchers, farmers, &c wouldn’t be out there protesting this thing.

154
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:14:30pm

re: #149 Brian J.

Only if you count offshore oil drilling.

Nope, it’s because we didn’t expand Medicare. And mineral rights always count. It’s not a quibble, it’s a fact.

155
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:15:52pm

re: #140 Brian J.

According to the Census Bureau, only about 1% of Americans operate farms.

Operate farms. That doesn’t include the people who work on farms. (Not sure if “farm” includes “ranch” but we’ll assume it does.) Farmers employ a bunch of people. Those people support the local businesses, which support the farms. Doctors, dentists, and nurses treat them and their families; teachers educate their children; lawyers represent them in court; &c.

“Farmer” doesn’t exist in a vacuum in a rural area.

156
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:15:54pm

re: #153 Anymouse 🌹

You still haven’t outlined your plan to airlift liberals out and provide us refugee status who didn’t vote for this crapfest (or in state government didn’t vote because there were no candidates).

We can do that with the money saved by not providing public services to those who don’t want them.

Another example: The Keystone XL Pipeline. It was people in this red state that fought off the pipeline in the state supreme court. There weren’t protestors from New York or Los Angeles at the statehouse protesting, though they were making lots of noise.

Round two is being fought now, and it appears that because the route approved was not correct, that TransCanada is going to abandon the project (though we’ll breathe a sigh of relief when that happens).

If this was an issue of “we get our money and screw the rest of the planet,” all those conservative hunters, fishers, ranchers, farmers, &c wouldn’t be out there protesting this thing.

They don’t care enough about Keystone to stop voting for politicians who expressly and repeatedly state that they want it built. Therefore, they should be and are ignored.

157
Weaselone  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:18:14pm

re: #142 Brian J.

Even in the reddest of states and areas there are still plenty of people who want that interference.

158
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:18:34pm

How about just don’t vote for Republicans ever?

159
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:18:54pm

re: #156 Brian J.

They don’t care enough about Keystone to stop voting for politicians who expressly and repeatedly state that they want it built. Therefore, they should be and are ignored.

Don’t feed the troll. It’s pointless and it only benefits the troll.

160
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:20:06pm

re: #140 Brian J.

From the very first line of your citation at the USDA regarding that 1% (I’m guessing less than that are software engineers, or doctors, or plumbers, or taxi drivers, it’s amazing how you can distort an issue with a statistic):

3.2 million farmers operated 2.1 million farms covering 915 million acres that generated food, fuel, and fiber for Americans and people around the world. Who are they?

Back to that question again, slightly modified: If you let rural areas go piss off, where are cities going to get 915 million acres of land for food, fuel, and fibre?

161
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:20:30pm

re: #159 austin_blue

Don’t feed the troll. It’s pointless and it only benefits the troll.

As a liberal living in a blue island in a blood-red state, they can go fuck themselves with a rusty chainsaw.

We have enough to deal with without supposed “allies” wanting to throw us under the fucking bus.

162
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:20:59pm

re: #160 Anymouse 🌹

From the very first line of your citation at the USDA regarding that 1% (I’m guessing less than that are software engineers, or doctors, or plumbers, or taxi drivers, it’s amazing how you can distort an issue with a statistic):

Back to that question again, slightly modified: If you let rural areas go piss off, where are cities going to get 915 million acres of land for food, fuel, and fibre?

The land won’t disappear. We’ll bring in immigrants who don’t hate the idea of public service, or purchase the needed goods from overseas if necessary.

163
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:21:24pm
164
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:22:02pm

did the repeal of the individual mandate make it in to the final version of the senate bill?

i wonder if the house will just pass the senate version or if yet another frankenstein will be stitched together in conference

165
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:22:27pm

re: #161 TedStriker

As a liberal in a blood-red state, they can go fuck themselves with a rusty chainsaw.

We have enough to deal with without supposed “allies” wanting to throw us under the fucking bus.

Yup. You’ll never turn a red state purple or blue with that poisonous attitude. Tough enough as it is.

166
TedStriker  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:23:21pm

re: #164 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

did the repeal of the individual mandate make it in to the final version of the senate bill?

i wonder if the house will just pass the senate version or if yet another frankenstein will be stitched together in conference

Yup.

Now it all goes into conciliation.

167
allegro  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:25:17pm

re: #161 TedStriker

As a liberal living in a blue island in a blood-red state, they can go fuck themselves with a rusty chainsaw.

We have enough to deal with without supposed “allies” wanting to throw us under the fucking bus.

Thank you for saying that so nicely. I’ve deleted 3 posts filled with… great animus.

168
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:28:05pm

i clearly recall six months ago when it was all the rage for trump kissers to declare that obamacare was “imploding” cuz there’d be no insurance suppliers providing exchange plans

never happened

169
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:28:06pm

re: #156 Brian J.

We can do that with the money saved by not providing public services to those who don’t want them.

What public services? The nearest bus line is 130 miles away in Cheyenne. The nearest taxi is just as far. I can catch an east-west Amtrak train if I drive all the way to Fort Morgan (150 miles). Internet? It already costs 10% of my VA disability. If it goes up any more, I won’t be around here at LGF.

They don’t care enough about Keystone to stop voting for politicians who expressly and repeatedly state that they want it built. Therefore, they should be and are ignored.

It’s amazing what gerrymandering will do. Okay ignore us. We can save our money fighting the Keystone XL and do something else with it. You want it stopped,, you come here and stop it (that’s the logical conclusion of your argument).

Actually, we’d rather stop the project here, regardless of whether other states care about us trying or not. Thanks for your support though.

170
allegro  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:28:26pm

re: #163 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

OMG. That makes me want to call Child Services for poor Julian. Not even kidding.

171
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:29:09pm

re: #162 Brian J.

The land won’t disappear. We’ll bring in immigrants who don’t hate the idea of public service, or purchase the needed goods from overseas if necessary.

You are aware of how expensive importing food is?

Are you going to wipe all of out here first before you bring in immigrants (going back to my genocide and eugenics question again)?

172
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:31:08pm

re: #169 Anymouse 🌹

What public services? The nearest bus line is 130 miles away in Cheyenne. The nearest taxi is just as far. I can catch an east-west Amtrak train if I drive all the way to Fort Morgan (150 miles). Internet? It already costs 10% of my VA disability. If it goes up any more, I won’t be around here at LGF.

They don’t care enough about Keystone to stop voting for politicians who expressly and repeatedly state that they want it built. Therefore, they should be and are ignored.

It’s amazing what gerrymandering will do. Okay ignore us. We can save our money fighting the Keystone XL and do something else with it. You want it stopped,, you come here and stop it (that’s the logical conclusion of your argument).

Actually, we’d rather stop the project here, regardless of whether other states care about us trying or not. Thanks for your support though.

Look at a county-by-county map of Nebraska election results for… virtually anything, and you find a sea of red (blue if you use US Election Atlas). Deep, angry, consistent red. Your problem isn’t “gerrymandering.” There’s no possible way to draw a blue Congressional district in Nebraska without Omaha. Face facts. Your neighbors want this. In overwhelming numbers. And democracy cannot work if universal support is required, as the US demonstrated with the Articles of Confederation.

173
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:31:16pm

re: #171 Anymouse 🌹

I think austin_blue is correct here, don’t feed the troll.

174
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:32:38pm

re: #171 Anymouse 🌹

You are aware of how expensive importing food is?

Are you going to wipe all of out here first before you bring in immigrants (going back to my genocide and eugenics question again)?

No. No need. Bring in the immigrants for the farms and provide them protection. The locals can be left to their own devices.

No genocide, not unless you provide it yourselves. We’re just cutting you off from aid that you don’t desire so that you can be all the conservatives you can be.

175
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:34:03pm

Someone’s having fun.

176
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:34:32pm

re: #172 Brian J.

NE-2 (Omaha) and NE-1 (Lincoln) have about half the state’s population. In 2008, NE-2 cast its electoral vote for Obama, and Lincoln came very close (which would have given Obama 4 and McCain 1).

Then along came the census, and the three districts were gerrymandered in such a way that voters from my district (NE-3) were put into the other two districts to make sure that didn’t happen again, along with gerrymandering the city districts in Omaha, Lincoln, South Sioux City, Grand Island, &c to ensure the same.

You still haven’t answered how you either propose to get us liberals out for your genocide and eugenics program. Or are we just collateral damage.

177
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:37:26pm

dictionary.com

Genocide (n):

1.the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Yup, that’s what you’re calling for. And you don’t care how many liberals you take out in your desire to exact vengeance on conservatives either.

178
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:37:43pm

re: #167 allegro

Thank you for saying that so nicely. I’ve deleted 3 posts filled with… great animus.

I like that you find “they can go fuck themselves with a rusty chainsaw” as nicely! As another member of the board who is a Liberal, Veteran, Straight, Married, Never Divorced, White, Carnivore, Irish, (ex) Catholic, Deist living in Texas, which has not elected a Democrat to a state-wide office since 1984, I appreciate you, and all who support us for the pitiful plight we find ourselves in. The Rs in this state are just as crazy as shit house rats. Or run-over turkeys. Or loco weed eatin’ cattle.

Pick the ignorant country fuck metaphor of your choice! ;-)

179
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:39:12pm

re: #174 Brian J.

No. No need. Bring in the immigrants for the farms and provide them protection. The locals can be left to their own devices.

No genocide, not unless you provide it yourselves. We’re just cutting you off from aid that you don’t desire so that you can be all the conservatives you can be.

Are you suggesting taking everyone’s property, or just conservatives’ property? Is my little house on the prairie safe from your land redistribution programme?

180
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:39:15pm

re: #177 Anymouse 🌹

dictionary.com

Genocide (n):

Yup, that’s what you’re calling for. And you don’t care how many liberals you take out in your desire to exact vengeance on conservatives either.

Nonsense. You’re saying that not giving you everything you want from the federal government is killing you. That’s why liberals are so scarce in your neck of the woods.

181
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:40:42pm

How about some SLAYER!!!!?

Flesh Storm

182
Brian J.  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:42:04pm

re: #179 Anymouse 🌹

Are you suggesting taking everyone’s property, or just conservatives’ property? Is my little house on the prairie safe from your land redistribution programme?

No, my dear Trump supporter. Your property is safe from federal depredations. Of course, if your wealthy neighbor decides it ought to be his and passes state or local laws to make that so, then what do you want me to do about it? Support from the evil feral gummint is a fate worse than death, right?

183
austin_blue  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:43:09pm

re: #173 teleskiguy

I think austin_blue is correct here, don’t feed the troll.

And yet, for some folks, it’s just click bait. Sweet, juicy clickbait. Yum!

184
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:44:17pm

re: #180 Brian J.

Nonsense. You’re saying that not giving you everything you want from the federal government is killing you. That’s why liberals are so scarce in your neck of the woods.

I am openly a socialist and an atheist, and elected to my local government. You know who voted for me? Conservatives. If I choose to run for chairman of the village board next year, I already have the endorsement of the current Republican chairwoman.

I am strongly considering taking on my representative for the US House, though I’m not sure what sort of campaign I could mount against him. (There is also the possibility Jane Kleeb will run, in which case I won’t - I’ll support her.)

By the way, Jane Kleeb is a family ranch owner.

185
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:45:32pm

re: #182 Brian J.

Wtf he’s not a trump supporter.

186
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:48:26pm

re: #183 austin_blue

And yet, for some folks, it’s just click bait. Sweet, juicy clickbait. Yum!

CP5OS2Qn37zNzjnqcMrXPtHJ+8w8VbLXOvJ7KhvZ4oG5HTvFqAE56KW8BWrtoUdFAJ61i9p6dTVBWIoy9YXxj9Pk2xabaOEsECwrY1AMgjpHZ+djvOft4Jko64chzjL2ApvCxNBxAjPKB9IpA6xxer4ogUC5A4Amkz0c/Y+BADfdJ2SKQTOYjR5jdrdLPIFMKFN5O+xuzB7txCSTKy2hZhEzuAGQKrpSRc4oBDjfm17DGRVNx/r4FFtEp/2Q6tW7JtqlWzIwedXWrGfUbsRFNaBiU4sZbnrAoy8vi6LqTET+q8SuV09XCytzrJHfU9GOAkogG5LuFD956B8kIhoIc0M6KPY/LFdwvN5sOlOXgsuxMH0cfpJuaObAkMI2QaBirosp6hTDY68Q3FSfCoFsSVCJpkUoDL0qmVzZV6GF54ITy538Ruym5GgEXoJ9Noan65Xq84acx/maYtCTspW5bUbbpqyiT+2LyDdmHSbZJ+M=

187
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:49:20pm

re: #182 Brian J.

No, my dear Trump supporter. Your property is safe from federal depredations. Of course, if your wealthy neighbor decides it ought to be his and passes state or local laws to make that so, then what do you want me to do about it? Support from the evil feral gummint is a fate worse than death, right?

I’m such a Trump supporter I not only voted for Hillary Clinton, I talked my Libertarian Party wife into voting for Hillary Clinton.

That was our secret plan to get Trump elected.

188
goddamnedfrank  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:53:52pm

Charles,

Just a suggestion that you consider banning Brian J.

All he ever does is show up during contentious moments and deliberately sow division through absurd extreme leftist statements that strike me as the work of a cynical, disingenuous griefer troll.

189
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:53:57pm

I don’t know, was I uncouth?

190
SteelPH  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:59:16pm

re: #182 Brian J.

No, my dear Trump supporter. Your property is safe from federal depredations. Of course, if your wealthy neighbor decides it ought to be his and passes state or local laws to make that so, then what do you want me to do about it? Support from the evil feral gummint is a fate worse than death, right?

What the fuck

191
teleskiguy  Dec 1, 2017 • 11:59:29pm

re: #188 goddamnedfrank

It’s spelled ‘sow.’

There’s my English degree, being all pedantic.

192
goddamnedfrank  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:01:01am

Anymouse,

You’re letting him manipulate you. You’re arguing with someone who is only interested in getting you to either react angrily or agree with his insane caricature of liberal positions so he can then go to right wing blogs and pigeonhole LGF as agreeing with his lunatic fringe framing.

WarGames - “The Only Winning Move”

193
Kragar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:01:52am
194
goddamnedfrank  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:02:05am

re: #191 teleskiguy

It’s spelled ‘sow.’

Well, it shouldn’t be.

195
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:02:52am

re: #189 teleskiguy

I don’t know, was I uncouth?

[Embedded content]

They have basically passed a tax bill that establishes this country as an Oligarchy. It will, in time, kill the middle class and reduce the youth in America today to a choice of either being a serf, indentured servant, peon, or wage slave.

Randian paradise! Pure Capitalism with no checks and balances. Welcome to The Brave New World.

196
allegro  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:03:33am

re: #191 teleskiguy

It’s spelled ‘sow.’

There’s my English degree, being all pedantic.

You calling Frank a female pig?!

That’s my B.S. degree being all smart ass. ;)

197
allegro  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:06:33am

re: #195 austin_blue

They have basically passed a tax bill that establishes this country as an Oligarchy. It will, in time, kill the middle class and reduce the youth in America today to a choice of either being a serf, indentured servant, peon, or wage slave.

Randian paradise! Pure Capitalism with no checks and balances. Welcome to The Brave New World.

If we let it.

198
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:06:48am

re: #191 teleskiguy

It’s spelled ‘sow.’

There’s my English degree, being all pedantic.

An English major! No wonder you’re a ski bum!

(All the sarc I can possibly /////, my man.)

199
Kragar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:07:36am
200
SteelPH  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:07:54am
201
allegro  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:10:52am

re: #200 SteelPH

[Embedded content]

Continue please. Tell your story. Give it context. For you and everyone of us.

202
SteelPH  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:12:11am

re: #201 allegro

Continue please. Tell your story. Give it context. For you and everyone of us.

Maybe another time. I’m far too tired and angry to bother right now.

203
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:12:38am

bls.gov
(Bureau of Labor Statistics, total jobs in the USA and jobs broken down by sector)

Very rough numbers, all agricultural jobs (including workers on farms and ranches, not just the owners of farms and ranches) are (very roughly) 15% of all jobs.

Many agricultural jobs are seasonal work (for example around here as harvest comes to completion there are way more people here than usual, but they’ll move on to other areas further south).

I suppose that would be a lot of immigrants that could be imported to do all the work in an unfamiliar place, while learning how the agriculture system and markets work, but it could be done, maybe even in one growing season without massive crop losses.

A couple years ago when Alabama passed its version of Arizona’s “papers please” law, causing a mass-exodus from the state of people who didn’t want to be harassed, cash crop growers ploughed their crops under the fields two years in a row because no matter how much farmers offered (as much as $100/hour), city folk weren’t going to give up jobs for five or six weeks.

Agriculture in this nation (ever since it went beyond feeding your own family) has always depended on migrant labour. If you were to magically replace 1.5 million rural Nebraskans with immigrants and do something with us, the new farmers and ranchers would still need migrant labour to harvest their farms and tend their cattle.

Repeat that for every state. Aside from genocide, you also advocate for the nation’s economic suicide (all agriculture states, even liberal ones like California) export to the rest of the world, and starvation (like it or not, the ag states feed the cities).

No city is an island: Throughout history cities have depended on the agriculture around it to support them. I suppose you could tell farmers and ranchers to FOAD, and they’ll happily tell you “go buy your own food elsewhere.”

You could even go further (say, send in the Army). The Army can’t harvest crops and has no clue how to operate farm equipment. The best they can do is point a gun and force someone to do it. That’ll work right up until the first farmer says “no.”

204
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:13:25am

re: #198 austin_blue

An English major! No wonder you’re a ski bum!

(All the sarc I can possibly /////, my man.)

Hey, when it’s fuckin’ blizzarding out, you’re inside. While I was inside in my 20s I decided to read books. It’s been a good decision, methinks.

205
allegro  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:13:28am

re: #202 SteelPH

Maybe another time. I’m far too tired and angry to bother right now.

I understand. {{{SteelPH}}}

206
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:15:22am

re: #197 allegro

I tend to agree, but even a good portion of Cult45 were calling their senators to try to keep this one from going off.

I think it’s illegal to mention the only thing that would for-sure overturn this, and in all likelihood that thing would get me killed too, because I live in my parents’ near-million-dollar home with no gates to either the community or the grounds and armed revolution would surely drag those houses’ current owners to the wall.

But I’m not sure that even a general strike would get the House to vote down the Feudalism Revival Act at this point, and even if it could, how do you get everyone, even the Nazis, to participate? Because if they don’t block the roads themselves, they’ll keep the country running.

As for “a new Congress”, to turn back the clock on taxes even to 1987, let alone 2015, will take a veto-proof House and Senate, and I’m honestly not sure, since Congress was willing to vote on this, that elections will even be free enough to give us a majority short of veto override in just the House.

Someone please give me some lifelines; this looks bad for the unemployable and incapable-of-emigrating.

207
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:15:39am

re: #202 SteelPH

MkS2vg7m8goEDTSidDzIUGn0avoMu5jyHjeiXFe7r3WQMd/vs2HGoUGfNz4ztTnrUBSP0dMMtz12F466jZvnyOyFOeQN72eywEephrsUi0B1IJWTzd4Kv/zUHM/qW9XX

208
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:15:49am

re: #202 SteelPH

Maybe another time. I’m far too tired and angry to bother right now.

Me too. It’s late, and I’m off for the rack. What a day.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

You know what, that would be a great first line for a novel.

209
Kragar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:17:51am
210
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:19:01am

re: #208 austin_blue

Me too. It’s late, and I’m off for the rack. What a day. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

You know what, that would be a great first line for a novel.

I’ve read A Tale Of Two Cities a few times, I even wrote a 12-page paper about it.

Dickens was a trip. I’m convinced he invented the “page turner” novel. His novel “Bleak House” convinced me totally.

211
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:19:30am

re: #192 goddamnedfrank

Anymouse,

You’re letting him manipulate you. You’re arguing with someone who is only interested in getting you to either react angrily or agree with his insane caricature of liberal positions so he can then go to right wing blogs and pigeonhole LGF as agreeing with his lunatic fringe framing.

Well, I’ve said my piece for now. I’m not sure how he might do that with what I wrote, but it is possible for anyone to either cherry-pick or strawman another’s positions.

Brian’s writing didn’t strike me as a conservative per se (I don’t know anything about him really) when he writes about telling red states to take a hike … I’ve heard that particular argument before.

Liberals are definitely at a disadvantage here, but haven’t always been. These things tend to go in cycles … it wasn’t long ago we had a Democratic representative (a few years ago in NE-2). We’ll keep plugging along and let y’all know how we’re doing out here from time to time. (::

212
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:25:12am

re: #206 Chrysicat

What we do is we keep plugging away at getting voters and candidates out. Virginia should be a wake-up call for the GOP. If Alabama does put Roy Moore in the Senate, the GOP will forever be painted as the Grand Old Paedophile party. While that might not be enough in Alabama, there are plenty of conservatives whose stomachs would be rightly turned about that.

Driving wedges between more sane Republicans and the nihilist wing doesn’t hurt either. In close districts, Democrats don’t have to convince Republicans to vote for them (though that helps). All they have to do is show GOP voters how morally bankrupt their candidates are. That won’t convince them all of course, but if it convinces enough to stay home …

And don’t let the GOP off the hook for this crap. Politics is a nasty game even when different parties agree on the same rules. Michelle Obama was partially wrong with her “when they go low we go high” remark. We go low as well, we just don’t lie about it.

213
Kragar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:25:21am
214
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:32:36am
215
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:33:24am

re: #213 Kragar

Mine:

Duck Soup Meeting

216
EPR-radar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:46:16am

re: #188 goddamnedfrank

Charles,

Just a suggestion that you consider banning Brian J.

All he ever does is show up during contentious moments and deliberately sow division through absurd extreme leftist statements that strike me as the work of a cynical, disingenuous griefer troll.

Seconded. His blatant agitprop is very destructive and can’t be written off as just one bad post. There’s a pattern here, as GDF says, and it is very ugly.

217
Kragar  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:47:11am
218
sagehen  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:49:44am

re: #210 teleskiguy

I’ve read A Tale Of Two Cities a few times, I even wrote a 12-page paper about it.

Dickens was a trip. I’m convinced he invented the “page turner” novel. His novel “Bleak House” convinced me totally.

Dickens never published a “novel” — he wrote serialized stories that were printed one chapter per month in magazines. (also, he was paid by the word. which is why he went into such agonizingly baroque descriptive paragraphs and the plotlines move so very slowly).

All of his “novels” were compilations of serial chapters, gathered together for reprint years later.

219
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:51:08am
220
allegro  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:51:34am

re: #206 Chrysicat

The only thing I can offer is the experience of age and I realize that is probably not so comforting. Not all that comforting to me neither but it does temper my fears and allows me some wait-and-see ability. This country has been through a lot of crises, bending this way and that, just in my 64 years, and has survived. This is a big one, maybe even the most definitive, since in my lifetime there has never been such a clear line between good and flat out evil. This vote by the Senate tonight was so obviously the latter. No redeemable arguments. Just purely fucking evil.

I not only believe it won’t work for them but that it will backfire with a ferocity that we haven’t seen since the 60s. I sincerely believe in the good of the American people to prevail over this evil.

221
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:53:46am

re: #210 teleskiguy

I’ve read A Tale Of Two Cities a few times, I even wrote a 12-page paper about it.

Dickens was a trip. I’m convinced he invented the “page turner” novel. His novel “Bleak House” convinced me totally.

Most of his novels were serialized in magazines before they were ever published as complete books. He wrote cliffhanger chapters to encourage people to read the next installment, which of course meant the magazine publisher also made money.

I’m not sure if Dickens was the first novelist to be published in this way, but he was one of the most successful at it.

[And sagehen got there before me. Dang it.]

222
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:54:39am

re: #220 allegro

I’ll skip the term “evil” due to religious connotations of that word, but “craven” works for me.

The country has survived plenty of setbacks. It will survive this one. Moreover, this fight isn’t over yet anyway.

223
sagehen  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:57:31am

re: #215 Anymouse 🌹

Mine:

[Embedded content]

As long as we’re Marxing:

Groucho Marx - I’m Against It

224
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:58:44am

re: #220 allegro

For the serious of the crime to hurt the GOP, we and the Democratic Party will need to tell people who was at fault, clearly and objectively. The pain won’t be felt right away for most taxpayers, but once it does the voters will need to be told who screwed them over.

Now that the GOP has their magical tax cuts in place, I wonder if they will now turn their back on Trump, since he has served his purpose.

225
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:59:03am
226
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:01:54am

Since some of us might want to have a pint now, in Germany, here’s what you’ll get.

227
sagehen  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:05:14am

re: #224 wheat-dogg

For the serious of the crime to hurt the GOP, we and the Democratic Party will need to tell people who was at fault, clearly and objectively.

Media consolidation and the end of net neutrality is going to make that difficult.

228
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:14:00am

re: #226 wheat-dogg

Since some of us might want to have a pint now, in Germany, here’s what you’ll get.

[Embedded content]

I’ll go have a Breckenridge Brewery Oatmeal Stout. Thanks for that reminder. There are certain advantages in living close to Colorado. (I’ll have to go in the next couple weeks to get my car serviced in Denver - can stock up on some more then.)

Wow, what a night, both the crapfest in the Senate and the poo-flinging here. I think I’ll let my fingers rest for now.

229
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:18:00am

re: #227 sagehen

Media consolidation and the end of net neutrality is going to make that difficult.

But not impossible.

The GOP is following the Dominionist playbook, I fear: taking over each of the “Seven Mountains” one by one. It’s going to take a concerted effort to reverse or stall their regress.

230
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:19:06am

re: #228 Anymouse 🌹

Buy Ska Brewing cans. Best most potent value for your ale buck.

231
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:23:35am

re: #230 teleskiguy

Buy Ska Brewing cans. Best most potent value for your ale buck.

Never heard of it, but I’ll keep a lookout for it. My wife likes Boulder Porter as her favourite, but it is hard to get outside of Denver’s metro area she says.

My favourite is Stroh’s which is even harder to get (like impossible), followed by Pilsner from Saskatchewan (also impossible here).

232
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:26:51am
233
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:37:05am
234
teleskiguy  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:49:17am

re: #111 Stanley Sea

words on a blog words on a blog words on a blog

you are overreacting

Yeah? No.

235
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 1:52:56am

Well, I’m out for the evening. It was quite a day: opening with Michael Flynn pleading guilty to a Federal crime which may bring down parts (or all) of the administration, and ending in a Dumpster fire of a Senate session over an unwritten tax bill that is intended to drive us all into penury.

Wow. I feel like I am in Watergate Redux: Electric Boogaloo.

236
Lupin  Dec 2, 2017 • 2:51:06am

re: #222 Anymouse 🌹

The country has survived plenty of setbacks. It will survive this one. Moreover, this fight isn’t over yet anyway.

If you mean in the geographical sense, yes, it will. But in effect, the post-WWII USA we’ve all known all our lives is already mostly gone. I’m reminded of the episodes of UPSTAIRS DOWNSTAIRS showing how the entire universe of the Bellamy family crumbled and collapsed after World War I. This is sort of the same thing.

In this case, the US has turned into a democrature with several features that are normally typical of third-world countries, such as the looting of the treasury, the unchecked kleptocratic nepotistic elites, pervasive superstitions, ethnic divides, the travesty of the rule of law. You have more in common with Zimbabwe or the Philippines than with Sweden or France.

To paraphrase Stephen King, your world has moved on.

237
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 3:19:11am

re: #236 Lupin

…But in effect, the post-WWII USA we’ve all known all our lives is already mostly gone…

My dad was a steel mill worker with a high school diploma who managed to afford a house, a car, a family vacation and to put his kids through (state) college.

Those days are gone.

238
bill d. (b.d.)  Dec 2, 2017 • 4:00:13am

The wingnuts control the House, Senate, Courts and White House. Of course they are going to get some wins, I am just thankful that it almost took them an entire year to get one.

239
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 4:40:25am

Let them be more scared after they think they won.

240
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 4:47:27am

re: #236 Lupin

To paraphrase Stephen King, your world has moved on.

It’s still reversible.

241
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 4:56:16am

re: #240 Decatur Deb

It’s still reversible.

The next fight is reconciliation and the votes after that.

242
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:00:18am

re: #241 Belafon

The next fight is reconciliation and the votes after that.

their only need for reconciliation will be with their big financial donors…

243
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:01:38am

re: #241 Belafon

The next fight is reconciliation and the votes after that.

And Doug Jones, and 2018, and 2020. At some point, however, it will not be reversible.
Ultimately we start to reverse the decay in the souls of the electorate.

It’s 7AM, and we’re losing time.

244
Lupin  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:05:46am

re: #240 Decatur Deb

It’s still reversible.

I honestly don’t think so, at least if history teaches us anything.

245
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:05:50am

re: #243 Decatur Deb

And Doug Jones, and 2018, and 2020. At some point, however, it will not be reversible.
Ultimately we start to reverse the decay in the souls of the electorate.

It’s 7AM, and we’re losing time.

The further it goes along, the harder it gets to recover from. But, while we need to keep looking long term, we have to also prepare for the next battle.

As for the souls of the electorate, we have to remind as many of them as we can of what Republicans are doing and hope they figure it out before major damage is done.

246
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:09:58am

re: #244 Lupin

I honestly don’t think so, at least if history teaches us anything.

We’re too close to see it. Trump is most likely an irritating blip on the historical scale.

247
Dave In Austin  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:18:51am

Shit……
I decide to go to the coast for a few days of wade fishing and look what happens…..

Heyzues Christo!

248
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:21:30am

I’m going with this guy’s attitude: m.dailykos.com

249
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:24:36am

re: #245 Belafon

The further it goes along, the harder it gets to recover from. But, while we need to keep looking long term, we have to also prepare for the next battle.

basically every month of the Trump administration is going to take at least a year to recover from. Don’t forget that a lot of these judges are lifetime appointees.

250
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:29:57am

re: #249 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

basically every month of the Trump administration is going to take at least a year to recover from. Don’t forget that a lot of these judges are lifetime appointees.

I’ve already apologized to my kids for what is coming, but imagine where would be if people had given in to fear early this year.

251
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:33:44am

re: #249 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

basically every month of the Trump administration is going to take at least a year to recover from. Don’t forget that a lot of these judges are lifetime appointees.

Cheap and easy victories are so 2016.

252
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:36:55am

re: #246 Decatur Deb

We’re too close to see it. Trump is most likely an irritating blip on the historical scale.

Alternatively, he could be Julius Caesar or even Augustus. And if he is a blip, it’s increasingly likely that that’s because he forces the country to actively back Russia’s ‘re’acquisitions of “the” Ukraine and the Baltics, which is a path that would inevitably lead to a Sino-EU alliance, WWIII, and the liberation of Russia and the US.

Even if the EU gets to be the occupying power afterward, they’d likely abolish the Constitution as the original enabler of our fascist turn, which would suck (and whatever national symbols are in use are in danger of being outlawed as hate speech,).

If China gets to write the rules, then it’s likely WWIII will have been The War to Make the World Safe for Authoritarianism, in which case Trump will have been a blip in terms of ‘where on the political spectrum’, but not as in ‘type of leader we’ll continue to have for the rest of my life”.

253
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:49:03am

A lot of our view of the future is determined by how we have lived our past. I was the first person in my family to go to college. I didn’t make it through my first attempt. It would have been really easy to give up. I even joined the Navy to figure things out. But I recovered,survived military service, got my bachelor’s and masters, and make enough that I won’t be affected by it for a while. I’m more worried about my son in grad school.

The point is that things aren’t always easy, and occasionally there are setbacks, but keeping the fight is what we have to do. I don’t have time for pessimism and more than sugar coated fantasies.

254
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:51:50am

re: #55 jaunte

Maybe you missed the fairly obvious fact that rural areas aren’t exclusively white, or Republican.

And we’d be screwing over children too. I hate the way these folks vote as a bloc but we’re better than that.

255
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:51:52am

I’ve been saying that the US died on 8 Nov 2016. Last night was simply giddily drunken GOFascists pissing on the corpse at the wake.

The only question is if it will be one, two or three generations to recover from the coming economic disaster and create the 2nd Republic…

256
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:53:35am

Remember how Trump got elected because of ‘economic anxiety?’

257
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:55:12am

re: #252 Chrysicat

Alternatively, he could be Julius Caesar or even Augustus. And if he is a blip, it’s increasingly likely that that’s because he forces the country to actively back Russia’s ‘re’acquisitions of “the” Ukraine and the Baltics, which is a path that would inevitably lead to a Sino-EU alliance, WWIII, and the liberation of Russia and the US.

Even if the EU gets to be the occupying power afterward, they’d likely abolish the Constitution as the original enabler of our fascist turn, which would suck (and whatever national symbols are in use are in danger of being outlawed as hate speech,).

If China gets to write the rules, then it’s likely WWIII will have been The War to Make the World Safe for Authoritarianism, in which case Trump will have been a blip in terms of ‘where on the political spectrum’, but not as in ‘type of leader we’ll continue to have for the rest of my life”.

He’s showing far more sign of being the historians’ Nero than an Augustus. If we fully expect the results of global warming, as we say we do, the whole snowglobe is about to get a really good shake that makes all of our predictions puny. And that is only one of the plausible randomizers.

258
Weaselone  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:56:35am

re: #252 Chrysicat

I don’t think your analogy would actually come to pass, but if so it would likely follow the pattern established after WWII with China taking the Western half of the US and Europe the East (Reversed for Russia) with DC and Moscow divided between them. All to be followed by a new cold war.

259
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 5:56:49am

re: #255 William Lewis

I’ve been saying that the US died on 8 Nov 2016. Last night was simply giddily drunken GOFascists pissing on the corpse at the wake.

The only question in one, two or three generations to recover from the coming economic disaster and create the 2nd Republic…

That’s likely if we don’t get our shit together by 2020.

260
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:02:27am

re: #256 BigPapa

Remember how Trump got elected because of ‘economic anxiety?’

Don’t underestimate it. Racism feeds off “villager” economic concepts of limited good. The children of most people in this country face a much harsher economic reality than we did in the 60s. It’s easy for the Masters of the Universe to get them to turn on each other.

261
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:02:49am

Wow I’m glad I missed last night.

262
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:06:49am

Some news that isn’t getting a lot of attention: The LA Weekly was recently purchased — by secret owners, no less — and most of the staff was fired. The new owners finally revealed themselves — and of course, they’re a bunch of rich right-wingers.

I expect this to start happening at a lot of newspapers and TV stations very soon. By the midterm elections, there could be hundreds of zombie newspapers across the country parroting Trump talking points and suppressing any contrary news.

263
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:08:36am

TBH I think even with Gerrymandering, we can win big in 2018 & 20 because I think many people are pissed. My worry is more so about the long run about the kind of people Trump has inspired to run for Office. College Republicans have gone from country club snobs to Richard Spencer like minded. And there’s international credibility. He has alienated so many people. Secretary of State will be a key pick in 2021 or whenever we win back the WH. Then there’s policy and not letting amnesia let in that makes someone like Trump appealing. We do need to build up a Democratic Party that is competitive everywhere.

264
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:09:50am

re: #255 William Lewis

I’ve been saying that the US died on 8 Nov 2016. Last night was simply giddily drunken GOFascists pissing on the corpse at the wake.

The only question is if it will be one, two or three generations to recover from the coming economic disaster and create the 2nd Republic…

With vote suppression, Russian interference, media propaganda and blackouts, no Internet to allow the spread of true information, colleges shuttered, and everyone forking all their taxes over to feed the rich, I reckon the GOP can rely on at least 50-100 years of dominance.

265
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:13:24am
266
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:13:59am

re: #255 William Lewis

I’ve been saying that the US died on 8 Nov 2016. Last night was simply giddily drunken GOFascists pissing on the corpse at the wake.

The only question in one, two or three generations to recover from the coming economic disaster and create the 2nd Republic…

The US passed the Event Horizon on 12/8/00 when the Supreme Court illegally installed Dumbya. We met Singularity on 11/8/16. Continually listening to the callers that I deal with at work daily on SSI and Social Security who worship Trump and the GOP for smacking them colored people down—I’m afraid we’re stuck…

267
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:15:36am

re: #264 scottslemmons

With vote suppression, Russian interference, media propaganda and blackouts, no Internet to allow the spread of true information, colleges shuttered, and everyone forking all their taxes over to feed the rich, I reckon the GOP can rely on at least 50-100 years of dominance.

If they are as wrong as we think they are, they will not be able to hold the economy, environment, or international relations together for 50-100 years. We fix this now or we go into savagery. OTOH, Alabama teams will almost certainly win the BCS.

268
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:16:30am

re: #264 scottslemmons

With vote suppression, Russian interference, media propaganda and blackouts, no Internet to allow the spread of true information, colleges shuttered, and everyone forking all their taxes over to feed the rich, I reckon the GOP can rely on at least 50-100 years of dominance.

It won’t come close to that. The rest of the world will react by isolating us, dumping the dollar as the reserve currency and they will also stop financing our debt. DC will implode as Republicans default on the debt and the country will break into pieces the same way the USSR did.

269
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:23:15am

re: #268 Joe Bacon 🌹

If that happens, whither Colorado and NM? Their beliefs would normally tie them to Pacifica/new Republic of California/whatever it’ll be called, but they border only states-that-have-insane-Rebel-Flag-to-populace ratios, and Mexican states even more a basket case than those new-CSA states…and I doubt either Mexico or Arizona would be willing to give up a strip to give us a land corridor to the ‘main’ states of such a place…

270
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:25:55am

re: #268 Joe Bacon 🌹

It won’t come close to that. The rest of the world will react by isolating us, dumping the dollar as the reserve currency and they will also stop financing our debt. DC will implode as Republicans default on the debt and the country will break into pieces the same way the USSR did.

That’s pretty much best case right now.

OTOH, rather than pay the rent this paycheck, I got my rifle & revolver back out of hock. Never know when these assholes will fuck with someone non-white (ie my Vietnamese son) such that they need a 158 grain reminder that they’ve not got the moral high ground.

271
Brian J.  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:26:27am

re: #269 Chrysicat

If that happens, whither Colorado and NM? Their beliefs would normally tie them to Pacifica/new Republic of California/whatever it’ll be called, but they border only states-that-have-insane-Rebel-Flag-to-populace ratios, and Mexican states even more a basket case than those new-CSA states…and I doubt either Mexico or Arizona would be willing to give up a strip to give us a land corridor to the ‘main’ states of such a place…

Nuevo Mexico almost certainly becomes part of the Estados Unidos Mexicanos. Colorado either partitions between the sane parts (greater Denver and Boulder) and the ‘Merkin parts or follows its southern neighbor.

272
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:28:07am

re: #266 Joe Bacon 🌹

The US passed the Event Horizon on 12/8/00 when the Supreme Court illegally installed Dumbya.

Well, not to dwell too much on the past, but I believe your statement is not true.

As we saw just recently, the President is elected by the Electoral College. The E.C. picked GWB as President, as per their own rules and the Constitution.

Over the Obama years the right wing would go on and on (idiotically at times) about how the US was a republic and not a democracy. That assertion is false because the House is a democratic institution. However, the President is not elected by simple tallying of the will of the people and that is pretty clear in the Constitution.

What we see today in the deconstruction of governance by Trump and the current GOP is just more results of the Constitution being very out of date in some regards. It does need a serious overhaul.

273
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:29:18am

re: #269 Chrysicat
There is no reason for the US to disappear or be occupied. Like most nations, however, it might simply become irrelevant. Dystopian sci-fi has been warning us about the global corporative world for decades. Technology is approaching the point where that becomes realistic.

274
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:29:32am

re: #269 Chrysicat

If that happens, whither Colorado and NM? Their beliefs would normally tie them to Pacifica/new Republic of California/whatever it’ll be called, but they border only states-that-have-insane-Rebel-Flag-to-populace ratios, and Mexican states even more a basket case than those new-CSA states…and I doubt either Mexico or Arizona would be willing to give up a strip to give us a land corridor to the ‘main’ states of such a place…

The US will probably break into at least a dozen pieces. Maybe Trudeau will pick up a couple (New England, New York, maybe Minnesota, Washington, and Alaska) and they will become Canadian provinces. The South will degenerate into 3rd world status. Utah will be a Mormon theocracy. California will go it’s own way along with Texas. The rest will wind up in various regionalities.

275
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:30:30am

re: #272 freetoken

What you’re forgetting, Free, is that no legitimate re-count would have kept Florida in Bush’s column, but that there was no way to know that until well after Inaguration Day.

The ‘stolen’ argument definitely holds water.

276
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:30:38am

re: #271 Brian J.

Nuevo Mexico almost certainly becomes part of the Estados Unidos Mexicanos. Colorado either partitions between the sane parts (greater Denver and Boulder) and the ‘Merkin parts or follows its southern neighbor.

Probably the southern half of Arizona as well for the simple reason that if the economy falls apart there isn’t enough water there for all the right wing nut jobs to keep living there. They’ll be forced out by thirst - either on the high road or the low road - and the Mexican army will deal with the remainder.

277
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:31:19am

The dystopian fantasy you guys are wanting to live through is fascinating, but the US isn’t going break up. The Soviet Union broke up because a lot of those countries were being held together by force. Russia, on the other hand, is still together.

278
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:32:07am

re: #275 Chrysicat

What you’re forgetting, Free, is that no legitimate re-count would have kept Florida in Bush’s column, but that there was no way to know that until well after Inaguration Day.

The ‘stolen’ argument definitely holds water.

Ken Blackwell did the same thing in Ohio during the 2004 election.

279
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:32:52am

re: #261 HappyWarrior

Wow I’m glad I missed last night.

Yikes I see what you mean.

280
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:33:20am

re: #277 Belafon

The dystopian fantasy you guys are wanting to live through is fascinating, but the US isn’t going break up. The Soviet Union broke up because a lot of those countries were being held together by force. Russia, on the other hand, is still together.

The US will continue, but it will become West Virginia.

281
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:33:36am

re: #275 Chrysicat

Gore himself accepted the count as it last stood.

The Electoral College again is the last word. Electors don’t even in some states have to follow the popular vote.

282
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:35:11am

I think everyone suggesting a Mexican reconquest of NM—Ari—CO is a little bit quick to jump the gun.

That’s way too many Anglophones to try to assimilate, most of whom will be well beyond the age where they can effectively learn enough Spanish to communicate with the ‘rest’ of the country.

And the federal army is too weak to even deal with the majority of their organised criminals.

But I will admit, those splinters from the larger cannabis-state log are too landlocked to make a go on their own.

283
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:36:49am

Off to fire up the weed-whacker. We must tend our garden.

284
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:40:41am

Maybe this this a bad day for me to be posting. I don’t want to anger of offend. But all this give it up , defeatism and predictions of the break up of the USA are symptoms of the surrender mindset not prognostication skills.

Pick yourselves up. We have work to do. Win or effing lose.

285
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:40:43am

Well, ok, I’ll stop being down for a moment and note this little tidbit of music I just found hiding in one of my youtube subscriptions:

Nena - Berufsjugendlich

And since few here have even as little German as I recall, here’s the lyrics courtesy of the Google translator bot…

Please do not be ‘
So professional youth
Nena’ s not ‘
So professionally
People are not serious
about that And it’s time for you to learn
Please do not be ‘
So professionally young
Please do not be’
So professionally
People do not take
it seriously And they are on the limbs
The old woman makes on hip
It already has a few grandchildren
You may like to have
me now Do I have to wear earrings made of pearls
Do I have to go to Krückstock for you now
Can not I ever tell a joke
Can I never go to the disco again
? Am I too happy, huh? Is that a problem
Am I not getting old Did not
I stay young
No, I’m making music
That’s the difference
I think I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
Please do not be ‘
So professional youth
Nena’ s not ‘
So professionally
People are not serious
about that And it’s about time that you learn
Please do not be ‘
So professionally young
Please do not be’
So professionally
People do not take this seriously
Because it’s not sensible
Well of course you can be in a good mood
But not at 54 anymore
People do not like it ‘
It goes against the grain’
I’m too young for a job
I do not seem to fulfill my duty
I wear a smile too often
I seem to be very old
I turn on the music so that it pops
I’m just me, have you strapped this?
I’m not a professional teenager
But I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
I’m not normal
(she’s not normal)
Please do not be ‘
So professionally young
Please do not be’
So professionally, professionally

286
No Depression  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:42:25am

re: #280 Decatur Deb

The US will continue, but it will become West Virginia.

Not necessarily. American politics can change drastically in the course of a few years. For instance, take 2004. Things looked pretty grim for the Democratic Party. Bush beat Kerry and the “Democrats in disarray” narrative was in full force (sound familiar?). But then in 2006, a blue wave swept Congress and in 2008, a black man whose last name rhymes with Osama became president. You think anyone in 2004 saw that coming?

287
I Would Prefer Not To  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:47:25am

re: #189 teleskiguy

I don’t know, was I uncouth?

[Embedded content]

Not Uncouth Enough.

288
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:47:51am

re: #286 No Depression

Not necessarily. American politics can change drastically in the course of a few years. For instance, take 2004. Things looked pretty grim for the Democratic Party. Bush beat Kerry and the “Democrats in disarray” narrative was in full force (sound familiar?). But then in 2006, a blue wave swept Congress and in 2008, a black man whose last name rhymes with Osama became president. You think anyone in 2004 saw that coming?

Anyone who watched his DNC speech?

The US was damaged in 2004. In 2017 it’s flat-lining. There have been 13 years of GOF gerrymandering, voter suppression & destruction of public education since 2004 to create far more serfs who’s vote is meaningless. They let a [censored] into the White House once; you can bet they’ll do everything necessary to prevent that from ever happening again. If the SCOTUS upholds the Wisconsin redistricting law, it’s game over.

289
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:48:44am

I admit the worse the GOP gets and the more I confront the necessary work to try and put things right since inauguration I consider registering Democratic. I keep coming back around to it, then I regard whats going on in there and I take a pause. Got some great Governors and a yet a mess in Sacramento. Like a gerrymandered map to ensure extended power just like what the GOP does in states they control.

How many of us here this morning are decline to state like me anyway? Let’s talk about stuck in the middle.

290
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:51:04am

re: #286 No Depression

Not necessarily. American politics can change drastically in the course of a few years. For instance, take 2004. Things looked pretty grim for the Democratic Party. Bush beat Kerry and the “Democrats in disarray” narrative was in full force (sound familiar?). But then in 2006, a blue wave swept Congress and in 2008, a black man whose last name rhymes with Osama became president. You think anyone in 2004 saw that coming?

As above, we have until 2020 to prevent it. It’s not going to fix itself spontaneously. Sweat now or bleed later.

291
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:56:20am

We have seen The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

Then we got The Revolution Will Be Televised.

Fact is the revolution is streaming live. Right Now.
Why no link? Already here.

292
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:57:52am

re: #289 Unshaken Defiance

At least you have decent schools with much closer to adequate funding. You don’t have a legislature screaming that protests are “hate speech” against conservatives and that students who protest must be expelled. You don’t have ecological regs thrown out of the window so that companies can come in from across the pacific to build TV sets for the bread and circuses - built by serfs for serfs (for the real entertainment of the .1% as they laugh at our pretensions of freedom).

You can whine about California all you want but it’s still goddamn near paradise compared to the nearly third world shithole GOF gerrymandering has turned Wisconsin into since the Walker regime came to power.

293
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 6:59:26am

re: #289 Unshaken Defiance

I admit the worse the GOP gets and the more I confront the necessary work to try and put things right since inauguration I consider registering Democratic. I keep coming back around to it, then I regard whats going on in there and I take a pause. Got some great Governors and a yet a mess in Sacramento. Like a gerrymandered map to ensure extended power just like what the GOP does in states they control.

How many of us here this morning are decline to state like me anyway? Let’s talk about stuck in the middle.

I’m not and I’m proud to be a Democrat in a state where the GOP completely ran off the rails!

294
Dr Lizardo  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:02:14am

re: #274 Joe Bacon 🌹

Possibly California, Oregon and Washington form some sort of alliance - California Republic and Republic of Cascadia.

295
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:04:37am

re: #293 Joe Bacon 🌹

Damn right. Say it loud!

As your red state neighbor, I had hoped more of you rubbed off on us. But we’re probably going to keep passing insane gun laws here and demonizing our border neighbor.

296
austin_blue  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:06:29am

re: #216 EPR-radar

Seconded. His blatant agitprop is very destructive and can’t be written off as just one bad post. There’s a pattern here, as GDF says, and it is very ugly.

I’ll reluctantly give that a thumbs up, and I’m pretty sanguine about these things. I asked him point blank if his first post needed sarcasm tags. No response. And then he started to double down. I asked people not to feed the troll, but the blood was up last night and The Mouse engaged.

It’s pointless having a member who is only here to piss people off. Sigh.

297
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:12:41am

re: #292 William Lewis

What California is, is wealthy and very lucky by comparison. William I’m truly aghast at what I see from an admittedly comfortable distance. Wisconsin and elsewhere. Gerrymandering is gerrymandering. Not good policy. Our urban growth is beset with Hep A ill homeless. Official neglect in paradise. Parents move heaven and earth, break the law, lie about residence addresses to avoid LAUSD or somehow do better for the kids. Generations are under-educated despite big budget spending at the top.

tbDsfqftMFytXY/VNdg2pWGo/m6iOpcEpV/wMpL94WwGU1E2ZPm6tGjU8dsxeGhKc+RrSGHf/+ZEc2dx/LnWGKduOn5JWbbCV5ElXJGSYk3e7AzL/eOoOK6q7/+wJyyrM+421wZ1aQmuGX6UK8oytAwrWhls1klrTEd/kEIJSV0EZvmRTyV7sM1o3mLDYBsmek9GC6UZgS0=

Any way, yes stuck in the middle with a fight in common along with the Democratic party membership. Against this wild swing to the far right and Trump.

298
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:15:53am

re: #297 Unshaken Defiance

F4PcDDuU5esn68zwetddIS7ZJvQX3UVeAzt8LPlT3ZQBU+Xcijc0HrO+tInunKPZZ/KvcLN6LGiZmQkVdYlkmDrxlrBcCGkLbj7ogy4ICQIb9vppnYoRvBCaCPYT9b3j4EVimBk+a1TJi+fglrPrwktZ79Kdw/I+1sM0+Td1uvCB2JZEvrzZ4fh/jJslAH1sHBKIqDO4HT8QyxVgGClttdADFvb9/ENE7u0O28y2IXarNdtoPrsVKqruwlFzHeo3eLliMxIRCXajxEu5aj4nZpaonQClMrmmEsrZZSPymVF52MpbdfVKuQ==

299
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:21:02am

Wow no insane Trump tweets this morning?

300
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:23:49am

Hooray! just reached 90K updings, only another 10,000 to go! How I live for these little random milestones.

301
jeffreyw  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:35:00am

Imgur


Good morning! Sorry I’m late, had a epic sneezing fit.

302
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:36:18am

re: #298 William Lewis

re: #293 Joe Bacon

bsBpIo4la89rBFG92gNUMPgxpPUEZ3J7mTt7IhbmRs9MxbkQBT07cMNkfZ29Lr6sUKDhdZJeM+Kx+UVf9vwsLmn9pvxJh4b0ohSsGX4QYLVB31iySj7TYE67FGLj+EeRlyIt/zy/UjLQUuJcw3mnldQ1UZjyIkjb0SyFynZA+dGhBFC2IELfqG3OkKE5imtSs63UF1yfNrKl6BBjCoi2JU3J6O4h30yJboRrNhuIuok80OjYA1VtLQ4W+fGTUNVU0SnI9XhS53JOePW2k3gSHxLJYk7B6QaaxuSog4wL4jx6BKZFaFyUr+57Jc45NrJOXlVmUt6OKIeBKFVCsC/yyO2b/WPZq2sq5fXK5c+5rRqu3eP0SpitR+GT+AWqCAmPw2prWQbx7bASEDbr75HWrukxsoQ9+njH1NzYhM5F0kaPNaRoLYobQQ==

303
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:36:46am

re: #300 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Hooray! just reached 90K updings, only another 10,000 to go! How I live for these little random milestones.

:)

304
Chrysicat  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:37:09am
305
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:52:09am

I appreciate the sentiment, but not hopeful that this shit show dies:

306
A Mom Anon  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:53:05am

re: #304 Chrysicat

And yet, because they can not do math, they forget that 1 percent hold a majority of the percentage of wealth. That percentage is the percentage the top percent should be taxed at. No loopholes for the foreseeable future either.

307
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:53:39am

re: #305 Dr. Matt

I appreciate the sentiment, but not hopeful that this shit show dies:

reconciliation will be a breeze here, after all, the only people they need to reconcile with are their donor base

308
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:55:13am

re: #286 No Depression

Not necessarily. American politics can change drastically in the course of a few years. For instance, take 2004. Things looked pretty grim for the Democratic Party. Bush beat Kerry and the “Democrats in disarray” narrative was in full force (sound familiar?). But then in 2006, a blue wave swept Congress and in 2008, a black man whose last name rhymes with Osama became president. You think anyone in 2004 saw that coming?

This is where I’m at. I understand the pull towards doom, gloom, despair, and defeatism. I mean, hell, the GOP just rammed through a bill that NOBODY HAD READ AND WAS BEING WRITTEN ON THE FLY. That’s partisan politics at its logical extreme - “you will vote for this because I, the party leader, say so, and without any hesitation whatsoever.” That fucking sucks, and it is extremely depressing, but you know what? WE CAN’T GIVE UP OR GIVE IN. It’s not over yet. The damage might be terrible - who knows? But there is nothing, literally nothing, short of a nuclear apocalypse, that we can’t undo in time. And who knows? Maybe the complete disaster that is the state of our country right now might spur another Renaissance in our culture. Maybe, just maybe, we will emerge on the other side of the Second Dark Ages as a more enlightened country. I might not live to see it… but I fight and I endure in the hope that my kids will.

309
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:55:32am

re: #307 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

reconciliation will be a breeze here, after all, the only people they need to reconcile with are their donor base

And the lobbyists

310
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:56:39am

re: #306 A Mom Anon

And yet, because they can not do math, they forget that 1 percent hold a majority of the percentage of wealth. That percentage is the percentage the top percent should be taxed at. No loopholes for the foreseeable future either.

That’s not because they can’t do math. They can do the math just fine. Because they are all either part of the 1% or are beholden to them, they know full well what taxing the 1% at the appropriate level would do, and they want no part of that whatsoever. They aren’t ignorant, they are evil.

311
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:57:02am

re: #308 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

This is where I’m at. I understand the pull towards doom, gloom, despair, and defeatism. I mean, hell, the GOP just rammed through a bill that NOBODY HAD READ AND WAS BEING WRITTEN ON THE FLY. That’s partisan politics at its logical extreme - “you will vote for this because I, the party leader, say so, and without any hesitation whatsoever.” That fucking sucks, and it is extremely depressing, but you know what? WE CAN’T GIVE UP OR GIVE IN. It’s not over yet. The damage might be terrible - who knows? But there is nothing, literally nothing, short of a nuclear apocalypse, that we can’t undo in time. And who knows? Maybe the complete disaster that is the state of our country right now might spur another Renaissance in our culture. Maybe, just maybe, we will emerge on the other side of the Second Dark Ages as a more enlightened country. I might not live to see it… but I fight and I endure in the hope that my kids will.

‘Zat you, Brother Leibowitz?

312
Belafon  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:59:46am

One last comment until this evening: I remember how this site was all “Democrats are going to lose Virginia.”

313
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:00:10am

re: #311 Decatur Deb

‘Zat you, Brother Leibowitz?

I have to get ready for work at the gas station, but that reminds me of this before I go…

It helps, now and then, to step back and take a long view.

The kingdom is not only beyond our efforts, it is even beyond our vision.

We accomplish in our lifetime only a tiny fraction of the magnificent
enterprise that is God’s work. Nothing we do is complete, which is a way of
saying that the Kingdom always lies beyond us.

No statement says all that could be said.

No prayer fully expresses our faith.

No confession brings perfection.

No pastoral visit brings wholeness.

No program accomplishes the Church’s mission.

No set of goals and objectives includes everything.

This is what we are about.

We plant the seeds that one day will grow.

We water seeds already planted, knowing that they hold future promise.

We lay foundations that will need further development.

We provide yeast that produces far beyond our capabilities.

We cannot do everything, and there is a sense of liberation in realizing that.

This enables us to do something, and to do it very well.

It may be incomplete, but it is a beginning, a step along the way, an
opportunity for the Lord’s grace to enter and do the rest.

We may never see the end results, but that is the difference between the master
builder and the worker.

We are workers, not master builders; ministers, not messiahs.

We are prophets of a future not our own.

Bishop Ken Untener of Saginaw

*This prayer was composed by Bishop Ken Untener of Saginaw, drafted for a homily by Card. John Dearden in Nov. 1979 for a celebration of departed priests. As a reflection on the anniversary of the martyrdom of Bishop Romero, Bishop Untener included in a reflection book a passage titled “The mystery of the Romero Prayer.” The mystery is that the words of the prayer are attributed to Oscar Romero, but they were never spoken by him.

314
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:02:04am

Phoenix weather: Why is it so hazy right now?
azcentral.com

Still not getting a lot of sun and still no rain. Feeling a little hazy crazy.

315
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:03:22am

re: #312 Belafon

One last comment until this evening: I remember how this site was all “Democrats are going to lose Virginia.”

My adage is always, fear the worst, hope for the ebst. For what it’s worth, I was telling y’all we had Virginia but we surprised even me. And i na good way.

316
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:03:53am

re: #313 William Lewis

P0G5UooIZAw1v0F6DxYxKkj7wxAXDciKyTY066/KoZIt0n4gB4YRbQ==

317
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:07:33am

So, a Berner acquaintance of mine just posted this:

Sad day. This tax bill passed and the Rich get richer. It won’t trickle down. It won’t help other business because 10% of people having more money to by shit doesn’t equate to more jobs. There is nothing in this bill that is forcing companies to put the money back into their company. And now it begins the end of the ACA. Something that while flawed was still good for this country. My premiums had just begun to level off and now pretty much every economist has said we should expect our premiums to go up. Add to it that the ACA makes sure my son can’t be denied coverage for pre existing or capped. I’m numb. 2018 we can change the seats but it will be years before we can undo the damage. Sad day.

And he voted for Johnson. SMFH

318
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:07:50am

re: #316 Decatur Deb

[Embedded content]

dfzTVI4T6Wv/eky6TraRhwu8ceZG1+jbEIJMtqiO87IKqkxnkCJN0lus0XaW1bsdT8Jb7sYolVUGmOFBna0YHjrHasSLiLH6mXcSdiQFKrktU4A33HnsXLY0tq0Fy1JrPF5CjTJmWHy/YTsOQQjlBNWOfs4kY0Hx8ZD/pbsFKs10HV6OWP0O9nvDxrZCgsWBkAQPf9DH27yykNhWW3TEw7tMTxbzH+Y0N58eEYcjvYdS/t6/0abzFMwxQs26Zb4jHURQEL9dixcBJ5PB9rCANHX71393Xwn4

319
William Lewis  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:09:06am

re: #317 GlutenFreeJesus

Tell him to look at himself and say “thank you”. Because that’s what caused this bill to pass the senate today.

320
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:10:50am

re: #317 GlutenFreeJesus

So, a Berner acquaintance of mine just posted this:

[Embedded content]

And he voted for Johnson. SMFH

He voted for Johnson and he posts that?!?!?
Edit- not crap because in context, it’s right but Gary Johnson wasn’t exactly someone who wanted to keep the ACA’s friend.

321
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:11:39am

re: #320 HappyWarrior

Exactly my thoughts.

322
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:11:44am

Deficit Hawks my ass. Blow it up and blame Democrats and the poors for it while buying more expensive invisible plans.

323
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:12:39am

re: #321 GlutenFreeJesus

Exactly my thoughts.

It amazes me how far lefties actually thought Gary Johnson ahd their interests economically speaking. I don’t like Bernie as you know but going from Bernie to Johnson shows a misunderstanding of what both men stand for on economics.

324
darthstar  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:15:47am

Wife’s company Xmas party last night…so of course I wore a suit.

325
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:17:26am

I mean I get why the Libertarians I know wanted Johnson but if you consider yourself concerned about economic inequality, Johnson definitely isn’t your guy at all. He’s never given any indication he sees that as a serious problem.

326
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:18:09am

re: #312 Belafon

One last comment until this evening: I remember how this site was all “Democrats are going to lose Virginia.”

If I may quote Elrond: “There is naught for you to do other than to resist, with hope or without it. But you do not stand alone.”

On that note, I’ll be phone banking for Doug Jones this afternoon. Wish us all luck.

327
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:19:42am

en.wikipedia.org

328
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:19:48am

I got a call from some non-profit for the FOP. I have no idea how they got my number but I feel reluctant to make donation. Not just because I only have so much money but because I feel the money I have would be better directed at otehr causes.

329
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:22:20am

re: #327 Unshaken Defiance

Trump said GOP tax plan is largest cut in history…. Fact Check

[Embedded content]

en.wikipedia.org

I think it doesn’t matter what the tax rate is, the very wealthy are always going to claim they’re taxed too much. Honestly, I think tax cuts should always be tailored to the majority of the population and thus the part of the population that would actually use money on a tax cut back in the economy. Supply Side Economics is a simple myth. It’s frustrating how we still don’t get this after all these years.

330
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:23:57am

re: #324 darthstar

Jacket game on point

331
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:24:18am

re: #329 HappyWarrior

I think it doesn’t matter what the tax rate is, the very wealthy are always going to claim they’re taxed too much. Honestly, I think tax cuts should always be tailored to the majority of the population and thus the part of the population that would actually use money on a tax cut back in the economy. Supply Side Economics is a simple myth. It’s frustrating how we still don’t get this after all these years.

Tax cuts need to be motivated by positive economic action. Capitol investment like equipment, expansion, foreign trade efforts, payroll at the middle and lower levels. She had a proposal a lot like that.

332
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:26:29am

re: #331 Unshaken Defiance

Tax cuts need to be motivated by positive economic action. Capitol investment like equipment, expansion, foreign trade efforts, payroll at the middle and lower levels. She had a proposal a lot like that.

Exactly. Anyhow, I’m drafting up a newsletter about how Pai’s NN repeal would really hurt small business owners both current and prospective.

333
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:31:22am

re: #279 Unshaken Defiance

Yikes I see what you mean.

I was reading through the thread at about 4AM, due to a disruptive cat and the onset of what appears to be a pretty nasty head cold.

I wanted to get up and toss my Kindle out the window.

334
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:33:27am

re: #284 Unshaken Defiance

[Embedded content]

Maybe this this a bad day for me to be posting. I don’t want to anger of offend. But all this give it up , defeatism and predictions of the break up of the USA are symptoms of the surrender mindset not prognostication skills.

Pick yourselves up. We have work to do. Win or effing lose.

Goddamn right, you are.

Fuck this ‘woe is me’ shit. Fuck that.

335
No Depression  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:33:29am

re: #329 HappyWarrior

I think it doesn’t matter what the tax rate is, the very wealthy are always going to claim they’re taxed too much. Honestly, I think tax cuts should always be tailored to the majority of the population and thus the part of the population that would actually use money on a tax cut back in the economy. Supply Side Economics is a simple myth. It’s frustrating how we still don’t get this after all these years.

Here’s an idea: 100% top marginal rate.

336
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:38:50am

re: #334 makeitstop

Goddamn right, you are.

Fuck this ‘woe is me’ shit. Fuck that.

Fuckin’ right, eh!

337
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:39:01am

The Okeanos Explorer is in the Atlantic now, and for the next month (actually, they started a few days ago) are bobbing around the Gulf of Mexico.

Today’s livestream, I’ve started the clock, hopefully, at a fun fish:

Camera 1: Gulf of Mexico 2017

338
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:39:56am

I guess the livestreams are not allowed to be started a certain points in the buffer.

339
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:42:18am

This shit is why I find myself not grokking the ‘Dems don’t fight hard enough’ bullshit sometimes. If a tree falls in the forest, and the media refuses to cover it, did it really happen?…yes, of course it did, not that you’d fucking know about it.

There’s something to be said about how viciously they fight, maybe, but holy shit.

340
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:42:21am

re: #335 No Depression

Here’s an idea: 100% top marginal rate.

we once had a 90% rate and it was during an era of great economic prosperity

341
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:42:37am

re: #299 Eclectic Cyborg

Wow no insane Trump tweets this morning?

He’s shook, period.

We’re speculating about who did what and who knows what, but that fatass motherfucker is sitting in some room in the White House right now, and he knows how deep the shit he’s in is while we’re still guessing.

342
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:43:46am
343
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:45:28am

there is a rather left-leaning international website, moonofalabama, that insists that is totally anti-Hillary and anti-Obama and insists that Flynn was only promoting policy matters and there was nothing at all improper about the Trump campaign contacting the Russian government

but that argument totally ignores the business contacts between the Trump empire and oligarchs close to the russian government

344
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:45:38am

re: #342 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

I was happy to see Joe Manchin among them. I don’t like the guy but that was a nice relief because I know he knows that the Republicans are going to attack him for his opposition to said tax cuts even though the tax cut would really hurt his state.

345
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:46:51am
346
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:48:54am

So speaking of tax policy, how about resurrecting the economic plan worked up by the pros in HRCs’ campaign proposals?

Business Tax Changes
taxfoundation.org
Establishes a “financial risk” fee on large banks.
Cuts taxes for small businesses by expanding expensing (Section 179), increasing the number of businesses that are eligible for cash accounting, quadrupling the size of the startup deduction from $5,000 to $20,000, creating a small business “standard deduction,” and expanding the Affordable Care Act (ACA) credit for small businesses.
Reforms the Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) and self-employment taxes (SECA) taxes, by broadening the NIIT tax base to include more business income.
Eliminates fossil fuel tax expenditures.
Establishes business tax credits for profit-sharing and apprenticeships.*
Enacts business tax reform in order to fund new infrastructure spending, although details have not been specified.*

347
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:49:20am

re: #343 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Why lie if it’s all good?

348
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:52:59am
349
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:54:19am

re: #345 Citizen K

[Embedded content]

I can remember when there were GOPers who actually were pro-choice, pro LGBT rights, not advarse to environmental protection, etc. The party grows more extreme but the media creates a both sides narrative that fools less informed independents.

350
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:55:11am

re: #343 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

there is a rather left-leaning international website, moonofalabama, that insists that is totally anti-Hillary and anti-Obama and insists that Flynn was only promoting policy matters and there was nothing at all improper about the Trump campaign contacting the Russian government

but that argument totally ignores the business contacts between the Trump empire and oligarchs close to the russian government

There is an element of the left very naive about Putin and Russia.

351
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:57:05am

re: #350 HappyWarrior

There is an element of the left very naive about Putin and Russia.

the people who insist that Hillary and Obama were warmongers out to rekindle the Cold War

352
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:57:19am

On the bright side, at least we’re getting the dankest of protest signs…

Facebook Post

353
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2017 • 8:59:10am

re: #349 HappyWarrior

I can remember when there were GOPers who actually were pro-choice, pro LGBT rights, not advarse to environmental protection, etc. The party grows more extreme but the media creates a both sides narrative that fools less informed independents.

Hell, look at the bullshit coming from the lefter-than-thous since during the campaign. It’s fooling them beyond measure too. That’s where that absurd ‘Fish Hook Theory’ bullshit is coming from.

354
calochortus  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:00:10am

Just a drive-by, and I may have missed someone posting this earlier, but many Freepers are not happy with this tax bill. It’s a fairly contentious issue over there and they have even been calling each other names over it here and there. The comments seem to have started more negative, and are trending a bit more positive now, but a lot of people have noticed that they won’t be the ones saving money. They still love Trump, of course, but those evil establishment GOP folks are selling us out.

355
Citizen K  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:02:03am

re: #354 calochortus

Just a drive-by, and I may have missed someone posting this earlier, but many Freepers are not happy with this tax bill. It’s a fairly contentious issue over there and they have even been calling each other names over it here and there. The comments seem to have started more negative, and are trending a bit more positive now, but a lot of people have noticed that they won’t be the ones saving money. They still love Trump, of course, but those evil establishment GOP folks are selling us out.

That tends to tell me that soon as Trump signs it, they’ll be all for it. Because contrarianism, God-King, ‘take that libs’, etc.

356
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:04:29am

re: #353 Citizen K

Hell, look at the bullshit coming from the lefter-than-thous since during the campaign. It’s fooling them beyond measure too. That’s where that absurd ‘Fish Hook Theory’ bullshit is coming from.

Absolutely.

357
calochortus  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:04:33am

re: #355 Citizen K

That tends to tell me that soon as Trump signs it, they’ll be all for it. Because contrarianism, God-King, ‘take that libs’, etc.

They won’t be happy when it’s time to pay more in taxes, though. They might not support their GOP congressman’s reelection, for example. This is not a popular bill.

358
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:06:06am
359
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:08:11am

re: #357 calochortus

They won’t be happy when it’s time to pay more in taxes, though. They might not support their GOP congressman’s reelection, for example. This is not a popular bill.

They’ll pay lip service to it, they’ll say how enthusiastic they are about the bill now that it’s signed into law, they’ll rub it in our faces… then they’ll bitch and moan come April and primary their congresscritters in the fall.

360
calochortus  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:09:31am

re: #359 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

They’ll pay lip service to it, they’ll say how enthusiastic they are about the bill now that it’s signed into law, they’ll rub it in our faces… then they’ll bitch and moan come April and primary their congresscritters in the fall.

I’m inclined to think so.
Anyway, I’ve got to get moving on a few things this morning.
Catch you all later.

361
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:13:34am

re: #357 calochortus

They won’t be happy when it’s time to pay more in taxes, though.

And as much as the applied spin will attempt to blame it on ‘obstructionist Democrats,’ the record is clear. Not a single Dem voted for any of this.

Republicans own this shitpile. It’s all theirs. They wrote it, they pushed it, they voted for it. It may take a while for that simple fact to sink in, but it’s going to.

If this piece of crap becomes law, the Great Awakening should start happening just as the midterms start heating up. Sure, a lot of the RWNJ cementheads will never realize how badly they’ve been conned, but quite a few will.

Toss in further indictments and guilty pleas in and around the White House (and maybe even Congress), and there will be some storm cooking up by next Summer…

362
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:15:14am
363
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:16:22am

re: #361 makeitstop

And as much as the applied spin will attempt to blame it on ‘obstructionist Democrats,’ the record is clear. Not a single Dem voted for any of this.

Republicans own this shitpile. It’s all theirs. They wrote it, they pushed it, they voted for it. It may take a while for that simple fact to sink in, but it’s going to.

If this piece of crap becomes law, the Great Awakening should start happening just as the midterms start heating up. Sure, a lot of the RWNJ cementheads will never realize how badly they’ve been conned, but quite a few will.

Toss in further indictments and guilty pleas in and around the White House (and maybe even Congress), and there will be some storm cooking up by next Summer…

I want to be clear on one thing: Even if this doesn’t happen… even if everything is smooth sailing for the crooks and liars on the Right and they get everything they want without serious consequences… we still need to keep fighting. Eventually, we will prevail. It may not be soon enough to prevent damage, but together, we can undo it in the end.

364
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:21:45am
365
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:23:46am

I gotta admit, I’m stunned by the extent to which the GOP has truly embraced the idea that Facts Don’t Matter.

I mean, sure, they always had a problem with the truth, because the truth was so seldom on their side. But in the past they at least tried to make it seem as if they cared, by doing things like putting out poorly researched handwaving bullshit think tank reports that used cherrypicking and bad analysis to support their arguments.

Now? Every analysis, including the one they insisted was THE one that mattered (dynamic scoring) came out against them - BIGLY - but they blithely insist that it will lower the deficit.

And everyone watched as they steamrolled this through, even releasing the bill in its final form with handwritten marginal notes as the text of the bill! but they blithely insist this wasn’t a rushed process.

366
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:23:49am

re: #362 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Had an unplanned stopover there this summer on my way to Amsterdam via Berlin.

367
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:24:54am

I just found out there’s pumpkin spice hummus. Which makes me wonder:

If we were cannibals, would healthy vegans or fat meat eaters taste better? Take catfish, crabs, lobsters: they eat all the crap at the bottom, all the junk, but are the candy of the sea.

368
dangerman  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:26:52am

From Jon Lovett ontwitter:
Future dem health care bill

369
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:28:04am

re: #368 dangerman

From Jon Lovett ontwitter:
Future dem health care bill

[Embedded content]

It was pointed out last night that the GOP rejected universal Pre-K and community college because of the “cost.” Fucking frauds.

370
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:31:36am

re: #364 JordanRules

Sarah Kendzior’s view makes the most sense to me - she’s one of those people who seem to strike just the right balance between seeing the threat for what it is but refusing to give in:

So…that’s where to start - don’t fall for false, misleading hope, but harness pragmatism and compassion to overcome voter suppression as much as possible.

371
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:32:08am

Twitler is tweeting and incriminating himself:

372
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:33:15am

re: #367 BigPapa

I just found out there’s pumpkin spice hummus. Which makes me wonder:

If we were cannibals, would healthy vegans or fat meat eaters taste better? Take catfish, crabs, lobsters: they eat all the crap at the bottom, all the junk, but are the candy of the sea.

Hard to beat a well-marbled evangelist.

373
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:36:04am

‘I Don’t Think He Did Anything Wrong.’ 5 Times President Trump Defended Michael Flynn

Live by Twitter, die by Twitter.

374
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:38:54am

re: #370 Interesting Times

Yup. Agreed! She strikes the balance exceedingly well for me too.

I do hold hope in a different place though. It’s strategic for me at this point and there is a great tradition of hope in many movements that I admire.

375
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:39:02am

re: #363 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

I want to be clear on one thing: Even if this doesn’t happen… even if everything is smooth sailing for the crooks and liars on the Right and they get everything they want without serious consequences… we still need to keep fighting. Eventually, we will prevail. It may not be soon enough to prevent damage, but together, we can undo it in the end.

Absolutely.

Even if the worst is inevitable, there’s zero reason for us to show our bellies and make it easy, and every reason to make their progress as utterly unpleasant and difficult as we can..

376
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:39:51am

re: #372 Decatur Deb

I can’t imagine tasting anything less than fabulous after eating paella all day, sucking down some good pinot and finishing with a nitecap of fine single malt.

Or would you rather eat a spindly yoga freak that eats lettuce?

377
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:41:09am

re: #366 HappyWarrior

Went for an IT conference in the early 00’s. I really enjoyed the city!

378
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:45:00am

Stupid son of a bitch.

379
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:48:08am
380
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:49:24am

re: #379 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Alfred E. Neuman’s position since the 1950’s.

381
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:51:17am

Trump just saved us a couple of 10’s of millions in Special Counsel budget with that tweet. Most very fiscal!

382
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:51:38am

I keep thinking of the economy and the tax bills in terms of stoichiometry. You have an equation, right? And on one side you have all the starting materials. On the other side you have the products. Like this:

2(H2) + 02 = 2(H2O)

That’s it. You need two Hydrogen molecules for every Oxygen molecule to get Water. If you have 5 times as many Hydrogen molecules as Oxygens, you’ll only get as many Water molecules as you had Oxygen molecules. No matter how much Hydrogen you add, you won’t get more Water without more Oxygen.

Right now, corporations and the wealthy have more money than they’ve ever had. Working and middle class families, however, haven’t had a real raise in decades. All the while growth has been slowing. Clearly, corporate wealth and wealthy person wealth have not been limiting. Adding more to those piles won’t increase growth much.

The GOP is throwing more money onto those piles. The stoichiometry is wrong.

383
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:53:16am

No shit.

GOP eyes post-tax-cut changes to welfare, Medicare and Social Security

washingtonpost.com

384
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:55:38am

re: #382 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m pretty sure that contemporary economic theory doesn’t work like chemistry.

Yet I think the biggest problem in all this is, frankly, most voters pretty much don’t care about facts.

That’s why negative adverts work, why slicksters like your local creepy evangelist stays in business, etc.

Impulse on the one hand, habit on the other. That explains our elections.

385
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:56:26am

re: #379 JordanRules

Wikipedia is right about this. Advertising is the original sin that builds into any media venture, no matter how idealistic it begins, a constant, permanent weight that drags down truthful journalism at every turn.

Even as a kid, I admired Mad Magazine for of its no-advertising policy, which would have impeded its ability to parodize whatever it saw fit to poke fun at

386
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:56:43am

re: #375 makeitstop

Absolutely.

Even if the worst is inevitable, there’s zero reason for us to show our bellies and make it easy, and every reason to make their progress as utterly unpleasant and difficult as we can..

Stiff upper lip, chaps. Show some of that old British wartime spirit. That’s basically what we need right now: A good old dose of Winston Churchill. “Never give up, never surrender.”

/Oh, wait, that’s Galaxy Quest

387
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:56:55am

re: #383 Decatur Deb

No shit.

GOP eyes post-tax-cut changes to welfare, Medicare and Social Security

But… but Mitch PROMISED Susan Collins that Medicare would be safe!

(gaaaah)

washingtonpost.com

388
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:57:24am

re: #383 Decatur Deb

No shit.

GOP eyes post-tax-cut changes to welfare, Medicare and Social Security

washingtonpost.com

Enough people are going to see enough short-term tax relief from this bill that they will continue to vote GOP.

389
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:58:20am

re: #388 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Enough people are going to see enough short-term tax relief from this bill that they will continue to vote GOP.

Until after 2018, at which point they don’t really give a fuck because they got what they wanted.

390
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 9:58:43am

re: #386 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Drat, I was saving the Galaxy Quest quote for after Elrond.

391
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:00:00am

re: #387 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

“Lie to me, I promise I’ll believe it.”

Sheryl Crow - “Strong Enough” - LIVE in NY 2005 (one of the best version ever!)

392
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:00:40am

All spending is jobs spending.
All taxation is redistribution of money from one pile to another.

Money is not what people think it is. Money, especially since the advent of reserve banking, is about controlling spigots in the total economic activity of the society.

By putting more money into fewer hands, the activity of most people will decrease.

This is why for most of the 20th century the idea was to move money from the few to the many, through taxation: it enabled the totality of the society economic activity, otherwise labeled as “growth” but I think that latter is a bit of a misnomer. We’re really talking about activity. If the population grows then of course the total number of interactions grows also so there is your “growth”.

But in those few nations with shrinking population the need is for a sustainable society, not one which worships “growth”.

393
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:01:24am

re: #390 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

Drat, I was saving the Galaxy Quest quote for after Elrond.

Mrs. Fish and I are watching a new show called Future Man. It’s seriously cheesy, starring Josh Hutcherson of The Hunger Games fame, and it’s basically a TV series adaptation of the story line of Galaxy Quest, only using a video game instead of “the historical documents”. It’s crude and a bit graphic at times, but it does have its moments of sheer hilarity.

394
Skip Intro  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:02:43am

re: #383 Decatur Deb

No shit.

GOP eyes post-tax-cut changes to welfare, Medicare and Social Security

washingtonpost.com

Well somebody has to sacrifice to pay for the huge budget deficit that the Republicans just passed but say doesn’t exist.

395
freetoken  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:03:01am

The GOP today is not only dishonest but it is also intellectually bankrupt.

This, I propose, stems from the hyper-religiosity that has spread throughout the GOP structure.

396
Ace Rothstein  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:05:34am
397
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:06:11am

re: #384 freetoken

I’m pretty sure that contemporary economic theory doesn’t work like chemistry.

Yet I think the biggest problem in all this is, frankly, most voters pretty much don’t care about facts.

That’s why negative adverts work, why slicksters like your local creepy evangelist stays in business, etc.

Impulse on the one hand, habit on the other. That explains our elections.

I’d say that depends on whether you’re talking about Austrian bullshit handwaving economic theory, or reality-based, data-driven Keynesian economic theory.

And in any case, it’s really just a way of looking at the problem. You can just look at it logically - if corporations and the wealthiest already have more money than they’ve ever had, there’s no logical reason to conclude that the reason the economy isn’t growing faster is because they don’t have enough.

398
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:06:23am

That was a pretty epic self own by Trump. Hopefully, Mueller is watching…

399
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:08:05am

re: #398 Eclectic Cyborg

That was a pretty epic self own by Trump. Hopefully, Mueller is watching…

He sees you when you’re sleeping. He sees you when awake. He knows if you’ve been bad or good.

400
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:09:40am

re: #391 Decatur Deb

“Lie to me, I promise I’ll believe it.”

[Embedded content]

Was she with Lance Armstrong when she did that song?

401
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:10:00am

re: #398 Eclectic Cyborg

That was a pretty epic self own by Trump. Hopefully, Mueller is watching…

Apparently he’s been getting coached by James O’Keefe.

402
bill d. (b.d.)  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:10:50am

re: #398 Eclectic Cyborg

That was a pretty epic self own by Trump. Hopefully, Mueller is watching…

[trump] MY TWITTER WAS HACKED! AN INTERN! F*CKING AUTOCORRECT!!!! ANYTHING!! HILLARY CLINTON!!! [/trump]

403
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:11:17am

re: #398 Eclectic Cyborg

That was a pretty epic self own by Trump. Hopefully, Mueller is watching…

That tweet gets added to what is undoubtedly a long list by now.

Once the report is issued, we’ll be able to compare it to Trump’s Twitter TL and we’ll find out that the one thing Trump is really good at is self-incrimination.

404
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:11:59am

re: #393 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Mrs. Fish and I are watching a new show called Future Man. It’s seriously cheesy, starring Josh Hutcherson of The Hunger Games fame, and it’s basically a TV series adaptation of the story line of Galaxy Quest, only using a video game instead of “the historical documents”. It’s crude and a bit graphic at times, but it does have its moments of sheer hilarity.

Sounds like fun. The movie Zathura does something like that.

(My most recent discovery is The Good Place. Comedy about the afterlife.)

405
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:12:05am

re: #400 wrenchwench

Was she with Lance Armstrong when she did that song?

No one could keep up with Lance.

406
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:15:00am

re: #404 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

Sounds like fun. The movie Zathura does something like that.

(My most recent discovery is The Good Place. Comedy about the afterlife.)

Eh, I’m not a big fan of awkward humor, and there is a lot of it in this show. But when it isn’t doing that, it is funny, and Hutcherson shows off his acting chops pretty well.

407
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:16:05am

re: #395 freetoken

The GOP today is not only dishonest but it is also intellectually bankrupt.

This, I propose, stems from the hyper-religiosity that has spread throughout the GOP structure.

I’d say it stems from the inability to deal with the racist founding of this nation and the way they still profit from it. The religiosity is a tool in the arsenal they do battle with. Oh, wait. That makes it a weapon. Weapons are tools, right? But not all tools are weapons. Unless you throw them hard enough, or define your terms weirdly enough.

408
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:18:10am

re: #407 wrenchwench

If you shoot a ping-pong ball fast enough, it can kill somebody rip a seriously impressive hole into a pig.

409
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:19:54am

re: #408 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

If you shoot a ping-pong ball fast enough, it can kill somebody rip a seriously impressive hole into a pig.

Not sure I want to ask how you know this.

410
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:21:44am

re: #408 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

If you shoot a ping-pong ball fast enough, it can kill somebody rip a seriously impressive hole into a pig.

There was a case that I may have heard of because my mom went to a cheap law school where a guy was charged with assault with a deadly weapon for throwing a pumpkin at a cop. And they give those to kids with knives! (Only once a year, thank goodness).

411
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:21:45am

re: #409 Eclectic Cyborg

The same theory can be used for a ball bearing. If shoot it out of a device fast enough you can break a window or something bigger.

412
TedStriker  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:22:27am

re: #409 Eclectic Cyborg

Not sure I want to ask how you know this.

MythBusters (the original, not that new shit Discovery is trying to push).

413
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:23:00am

re: #412 TedStriker

Link please.

414
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:23:24am

re: #413 PhillyPretzel

Link please.

Seconded.

415
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:23:47am

See if I were to believe in the kind of things Trump supporters do, I’d be greatly annoyed by Trump because he’s such a stupid moron with no self control. That may be why some of the somewhat more intelligent racists like Coulter have turned on Trump in some ways.

416
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:24:18am

re: #413 PhillyPretzel

Link please.

Ping pong ball traveling at 1100 mph..

417
TedStriker  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:24:28am

re: #413 PhillyPretzel

Link please.

Ping pong ball traveling at 1100 mph..

418
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:28:37am

re: #416 makeitstop

But she deleted 33,000 emails.

419
TedStriker  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:28:40am

re: #416 makeitstop

Jinx!

420
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:29:22am
421
Teukka  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:31:28am

re: #420 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Video related? Badger Badger Badger | 1 Hour | Weebl

422
TedStriker  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:32:09am

re: #420 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

423
sagehen  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:32:40am

re: #379 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

That’s why Consumer Reports also doesn’t take advertising.

424
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:36:14am

re: #423 sagehen

And that is why Cook’s Illustrated has no ads too.
cooksillustrated.com

425
GlutenFreeJesus  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:38:54am

426
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:40:06am

re: #421 Teukka

Video related? [Embedded content]

tl;dw

427
Alephnaught  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:42:10am

re: #26 Interesting Times

The Declaration of Independence was handwritten. Somehow we managed ok.

Yeah, because handwriting at the time was the major method of communication at distance, so an effort was made to use handwriting that others could actually read. Even more importantly, time was allowed for other people to read it.

428
Dr Lizardo  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:43:11am

re: #420 wrenchwench

I think that “cete” would work for these critters too.

Pikachu The Imperial March 2

429
ipsos  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:44:32am

Caveat: it’s possible I’ve just been too ruthlessly efficient at muting or unfriending RWNJs on my social media feeds.

But there’s been almost nothing in the last few days that I’ve seen from anyone - even the “usual suspects” - showing any enthusiasm for the Shit Sandwich Act of 2017.

About all I’ve seen was one provocateur saying “yeah it’s a crap bill and it won’t help anyone but I love watching libs freak out.”

If that’s the best their side can muster for enthusiasm, I’m cautiously optimistic about our electoral prospects in 2018.

430
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:47:44am

re: #429 ipsos

Caveat: it’s possible I’ve just been too ruthlessly efficient at muting or unfriending RWNJs on my social media feeds.

But there’s been almost nothing in the last few days that I’ve seen from anyone - even the “usual suspects” - showing any enthusiasm for the Shit Sandwich Act of 2017.

About all I’ve seen was one provocateur saying “yeah it’s a crap bill and it won’t help anyone but I love watching libs freak out.”

If that’s the best their side can muster for enthusiasm, I’m cautiously optimistic about our electoral prospects in 2018.

I haven’t seen any thing from my wingnut friends about it. But they don’t focus on actual policy, just whining.

431
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:49:23am

That sweet smell of new threadage wafting in from the kitchen…

432
Romantic Heretic  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:50:47am

re: #421 Teukka

My wife had never seen that meme I discovered recently.

433
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:50:58am

re: #431 BigPapa

That sweet smell of new threadage wafting in from the kitchen…

Yeah serve us up!

434
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:53:15am

re: #374 JordanRules

Yup. Agreed! She strikes the balance exceedingly well for me too.

I do hold hope in a different place though. It’s strategic for me at this point and there is a great tradition of hope in many movements that I admire.

I like Barbara Kingsolver’s view of hope and optimism:

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the difference between being optimistic and being hopeful. I would say that I’m a hopeful person, although not necessarily optimistic. Here’s how I would describe it. The pessimist would say, “It’s going to be a terrible winter; we’re all going to die.” The optimist would say, “Oh, it’ll be all right; I don’t think it’ll be that bad.” The hopeful person would say, “Maybe someone will still be alive in February, so I’m going to put some potatoes in the root cellar just in case.” And that’s where I lodge myself on this spectrum.

Hope is a mode of survival. I think hope is a mode of resistance. Hope is how parents get through the most difficult parts of their kids’ teenaged years. Hope is how a cancer patient endures painful treatments. Hope is how people on a picket line keep showing up. If you look at hope that way, it’s not a state of mind but something we actually do with our hearts and our hands, to navigate ourselves through the difficult passages. I think that as a fiction writer—or any kind of writer—hope is a gift I can try to cultivate.

435
retired cynic  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:58:24am

re: #420 wrenchwench

I love the white cat just sitting there observing.

436
Sionainn, the Nasty Devilbitch  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:59:00am

re: #435 retired cynic

I love the white cat just sitting there observing.

I thought it was a cat statue.

437
dangerman  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:59:22am

two well thought out comments from political-wire, paraphrased:

adding 5 bucks to the deficit to feed a hungry American is a mortal sin.
adding a trillion to give tax cuts to people who don’t need it is a moral imperative.

and

some Americans even if they think the 1% don’t pay enough are willing to let them rip us off because they don’t want that money shared with non-whites through social programs

438
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 10:59:38am

re: #434 BeachDem

That’s very, very good! Love how she ties it into her work.
Saved! Thanks for sharing.

439
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:00:56am

re: #433 HappyWarrior

Yeah serve us up!

CHARLES? NEW THREAD.

CHARLES? THE MEATLOAF!

440
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:01:15am

I had a freaky incident happen while I was walking to work today. I took an unusual route because it’s the last First Saturday Garage sale of the year at one of the churches just out of my way to work. I went one more block out of my way because there was a kitty on the sidewalk in the middle of the next block coming towards me. As I got nearer, I noticed it looked EXACTLY like my Manx, but with a full tail. I mean EXACTLY, down to the placement of each tabby stripe, and the face markings.

When I got my Manx, and one of his brothers, there were three others in the litter that I couldn’t take. Two were orange tabbies, and one was the biggest of the five, and a match for the Manx, which I had grabbed first (pardon the expression) because I had been wanting and wishing for a Manx, having had a wonderful childhood experience of a Manx in the home. My Manx was the runt of the litter.

I met his big brother today. They are now the same size, except for the tail. They are 10 years old.

441
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:04:20am

re: #435 retired cynic

I love the white cat just sitting there observing.

Some cats have a weird combo of extreme bravery and moderate stupidity…

Brave housecat challenges LION

442
Nyet  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:05:05am

re: #440 wrenchwench

Manxist propaganda.

443
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:07:03am

re: #441 scottslemmons

Some cats have a weird combo of extreme bravery and moderate stupidity…

[Embedded content]

Little Napoleon Kitty Syndrome. They all have that.

444
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:11:31am

re: #441 scottslemmons

Some cats have a weird combo of extreme bravery and moderate stupidity…

So we went to visit the wild animal park in Dundee, Scotland. My wife had a cairn terrier that was always close at her feet. We saw no signs at the gate reading no dogs allowed and the ticket seller did not notice the dog, so we went in with the dog.

Coming to the wolf enclosure, I was surprised to see a wolf spot our dog and then run off…until I saw that he had simply gone off to alert the rest of the pack and bring them back!

We were later advised that dogs were not in fact allowed, we asked why there was no sign and the caretaker said that they were having such trouble formulating the text of a sign that indicated that seeing-eye or aid dogs were allowed that they elected not to put up a sign at all.

I found that rather odd.

But then again, it was Dundee.

445
Decatur Deb  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:14:07am

Credible poll shows Jones slightly ahead in AL. (If anything, GMU has a conservative bent.)

al.com

446
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:15:38am

re: #444 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

So we went to visit the wild animal park in Dundee, Scotland. My wife had a cairn terrier that was always close at her feet. We saw no signs at the gate reading no dogs allowed and the ticket seller did not notice the dog, so we went in with the dog.

Coming to the wolf enclosure, I was surprised to see a wolf spot our dog and then run off…until I saw that he had simply gone off to alert the rest of the pack and bring them back!

We were later advised that dogs were not in fact allowed, we asked why there was no sign and the caretaker said that they were having such trouble formulating the text of a sign that indicated that seeing-eye or aid dogs were allowed that they elected not to put up a sign at all.

I found that rather odd.

But then again, it was Dundee.

This is one of those cases where I really wish I knew what animals were thinking. Were the wolves thinking “Oh boy, here comes lunch!” or “HOLY FUCK, YOU GUYS, IT’S A HOBBIT!”

447
HappyWarrior  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:16:40am

re: #445 Decatur Deb

Credible poll shows Jones slightly ahead in AL. (If anything, GMU has a conservative bent.)

al.com

In our Economics school, yes but otherwise more centrist.

448
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:20:29am

Interesting thought - the ‘second obstruction’ question.

449
Teukka  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:21:56am
450
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:26:57am

re: #449 Teukka

451
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:28:00am

People have learned to spot Russians. Check the replies to this one.

452
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:36:15am

Republicans live in a fantasy world.

453
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:37:52am

Best meme I’ve seen in a while.

454
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:38:27am

re: #452 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

You hit the nail on the head.

455
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:38:33am

re: #453 makeitstop

Best meme I’ve seen in a while.

[Embedded content]

The worst day of his life will be his first day behind bars. And may it be soon.

457
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:42:38am

re: #456 Teukka

I will take your word for it. Each time I click on the link I get those dang (I am being very polite) pop-ups.

458
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:48:14am
459
Teukka  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:49:24am

re: #457 PhillyPretzel

I will take your word for it. Each time I click on the link I get those dang (I am being very polite) pop-ups.

Adblock Plus. Just sayin’…

460
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:50:39am

Bad etiquette to cut fine steak with scissors? Asking for a friend…

461
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:50:48am

re: #459 Teukka

Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

462
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:52:10am

re: #457 PhillyPretzel

(I am being very polite)

I confess to wondering sometimes what it would take to make you fly off the handle.

463
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:52:39am

re: #456 Teukka

Former ethics director: Trump’s tweet on Flynn could end presidency

I got a feeling Shittler knows that the moment he signs the tax bill Republicans have no more use for him!

464
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:52:59am

re: #460 BigPapa

Bad etiquette to cut fine steak with scissors? Asking for a friend…

Just lubricate the blades with liberal amounts of ketchup.

465
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:53:40am

re: #460 BigPapa

Bad etiquette to cut fine steak with scissors? Asking for a friend…

Just make sure the scissors are equally fine.

466
Sionainn, the Nasty Devilbitch  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:54:59am

Does anyone here have any clue about this tax proposal and how it affects sole proprietors? I’m trying to figure out if I would still be able to deduct my business expenses from my gross income to get a net income. I’m also wondering if I’m going to be able to deduct my health insurance premiums which are outrageously high and that I simply cannot afford, but have to have anyway.

467
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:55:13am

re: #464 Dr. Matt

Just lubricate the blades with liberal amounts of ketchup HP Sauce

FIFY!

468
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:55:15am

re: #463 Joe Bacon 🌹

I got a feeling Shittler knows that the moment he signs the tax bill Republicans have no more use for him!

Someone should drop a tweet on Trump’s account saying that ‘sources say’ Congress is going to dump him once the Tax bill is signed. He’d probably back right off and refuse to sign it.

469
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:55:15am

re: #456 Teukka

Former ethics director: Trump’s tweet on Flynn could end presidency

Never fear, the librul NYT is here to play concern troll:

Facebook

470
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:56:34am

re: #469 Dr. Matt

Never fear, the librul NYT is here to play concern troll:

[Embedded content]

Don’t tell me, lemme guess - Haberman, yeah?

471
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:57:39am

re: #470 makeitstop

Don’t tell me, lemme guess - Haberman, yeah?

Huh, bad guess. A Haberman-in-training.

472
Dr. Matt  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:58:02am

re: #470 makeitstop

Don’t tell me, lemme guess - Haberman, yeah?

Christina Caron

473
PhillyPretzel  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:59:10am

re: #462 wrenchwench

You do not want to know. Several times I have almost resorted to foul language in this forum but since I wanted to stay here I have deleted what I have typed and just walked away. I rather do that.

474
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:59:25am

re: #472 Dr. Matt

Christina Caron

Coming up next—the Screw York Times reverts to their usual Kill Hillary mode!

475
plansbandc  Dec 2, 2017 • 11:59:35am

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

Monkey Butlers is my new band name. Thank you!

476
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:00:56pm

re: #473 PhillyPretzel

You do not want to know. Several times I have almost resorted to foul language in this forum but since I wanted to stay here I have deleted what I have typed and just walked away. I rather do that.

Resorting to bad language is half the fun if you ask me.

But I’m just a hopeless potty-mouth in real life, too. :)

478
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:06:15pm

re: #339 Citizen K

This shit is why I find myself not grokking the ‘Dems don’t fight hard enough’ bullshit sometimes. If a tree falls in the forest, and the media refuses to cover it, did it really happen?…yes, of course it did, not that you’d fucking know about it.

I’m fully aware the MSM has a terminal case of both-sideris, just as I’m fully aware GOPers are fascist, vote-suppressing sickopaths. I’m also fully aware of how utterly unjust this is.

That being said - it still behooves the Dems to come up with a way to fight both these things to the best of their ability, and I’m still not convinced that ALL of them are doing that. Take the MSM bullshit, for example - why do the Dems have to go along with their disingenuous questions and framing? Have you noticed how GOPer spinmasters are excerpts at *pretending* to give an answer to a question, only to - within miliseconds - pivot around to their own framing and even a completely different subject?

GOPers talk about what THEY want to talk about, interview question be damned. Dems play nice and go on the defensive instead -_-

Enough of that weak tea rubbish. Analyze this video of Kellyanne Conway’s techniques, and figure out how you can use some of them as a force for good instead of evil (especially the one where she pivots from an unfavorable question to a filibuster of the points she wants to make):

Kellyanne Conway’s interview tricks, explained

479
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:07:27pm

How does one become a celebrity pet stylist?

480
scottslemmons  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:08:22pm

re: #479 BigPapa

How does become a celebrity pet stylist?

Get J.Lo to let you wash her dog?

481
wrenchwench  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:11:09pm

re: #477 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Video

Time for GMO kittehs!

482
BigPapa  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:16:48pm

As I predicted some time ago, and because I demanded like a petulant man child, there is a new thread ->

483
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:16:55pm

re: #478 Interesting Times

Hypothetical scenario as example:

MSM Both-siderist dipshit: “The Democrats have a major sexual harassment problem so does that mean you have no standing to criticize Roy Moore?”

Dem politician who knows what’s what: “We take all allegations seriously and have implemented proper due process to investigate. Contrast this to GOPers who only engage in denial, completely dismissing the victims of trump, moore, [go on to list all other GOPers accused of sexual harassment] and even going so far as to hire a woman to lie about being raped in an effort to discredit actual victims. It should be clear to any voter that Democrats take these allegations seriously and handle them appropriately while the GOP does nothing but protect and enable predators.”

That may not be perfect, but it gives you an idea - unless they either refuse to *ever* invite Dems on their shows (in which case, an ad/social media campaign calling it out would be appropriate, as well as going directly to voters) or do the fox mic-cutting trick, there’s always a way to get your message out even when faced with a hostile and willfully stupid both-siderist media.

484
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:17:54pm

re: #478 Interesting Times

I’ve seen plenty of Dems do this because they are politicians so lots of them know the game. Then plenty of folks start in with the “all of them are just alike”, “why can’t they just answer the question”, “why can’t they just talk regular” type of feedback. Plus, they have to get invited more in order to test new press comms strategies.

There is a representation problem at every level of media, from ownership to who works there to what talent is used to what resources are exploited or ignored.

485
JordanRules  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:23:41pm

re: #483 Interesting Times

And here is the message I can easily see them pushing after an interview with that perfectly good and smart quote…

Dems pointing to GOP as unanswered harassment issues continue to plague them.

486
BeachDem  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:25:51pm

re: #466 Sionainn, the Nasty Devilbitch

Does anyone here have any clue about this tax proposal and how it affects sole proprietors? I’m trying to figure out if I would still be able to deduct my business expenses from my gross income to get a net income. I’m also wondering if I’m going to be able to deduct my health insurance premiums which are outrageously high and that I simply cannot afford, but have to have anyway.

PRE-COMMENT NOTE—I MIGHT BE 100% WRONG

I’ve been trying to find the same thing. All I have seen (that I even understand) is that if you change the structure of your business to an S (?) or C (?) you get a pass-through option but otherwise, you’re fucked and can’t deduct home office expenses, supplies, insurance etc. (I am in the you’re fucked category.) Somewhere I read that the repeal of the Johnson amendment has something to do with all of this (in addition to allowing pulpit pimps to “all skate.”)

I am not sure if that is all correct—if you find a clear explanation, please share.

487
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:27:36pm

re: #448 makeitstop

“Just unreal”: Trump’s latest tweet about Flynn indicates he’s either “utterly clueless about his own jeopardy” or “truly believes he is beyond accountability,” experts say

a bit of both.

look, there are enough charges out there to impeach DT: conflict of interests, obstruction of justice, emoluments clause, but the political will is lacking

what makes you think that a mueller indictment is suddenly going to be enough to get them to change their minds?

488
plansbandc  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:38:59pm

re: #121 austin_blue

A-Basin was a favorite of mine growing up. Went there quite a bit because my dad really liked it too. When my parents were living in Eagle, Beaver Creek became the favorite.

489
Interesting Times  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:41:34pm

re: #485 JordanRules

And here is the message I can easily see them pushing after an interview with that perfectly good and smart quote…

Dems pointing to GOP as unanswered harassment issues continue to plague them.

Are you reading Maggie Haberman’s mind? :/

I figured something like that would happen, but again, all the more reason to call them out and push the original point over and over again - for example, the NY Times is still a festering pile of nazi-normalizing false equivalence, but they *did* have to do a defensive dance of their own in response to pushback over their “meet the nice midwestern nazi next door” piece.

490
plansbandc  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:48:15pm

re: #158 goddamnedfrank

That’s my policy. If an R is running unopposed, I do not vote.

491
makeitstop  Dec 2, 2017 • 12:51:05pm

re: #487 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

a bit of both.

look, there are enough charges out there to impeach DT: conflict of interests, obstruction of justice, emoluments clause, but the political will is lacking

what makes you think that a mueller indictment is suddenly going to be enough to get them to change their minds?

I believe in the Rule of Law, as I’ve been saying for over a year now.

Mueller is smarter than the entire Trump ‘brain trust’ combined, and his staff of specialists is busy locking this down from every conceivable angle. They know their case law. They’re building a case that will be pardon-proof. They are proceeding in a deliberate manner, sealing each and every potential loophole as they go. Their case against Trump, by the time they serve it, will be bulletproof.

And the Mueller indictment of Trump will be by no means ‘sudden.’ By the time they get to that slug, he’ll have a full compliment of aides, advisors, spokespeople, cabnet members, appointees, maybe a few members of Congress, family members.

He’s got four scalps already. As he gets closer to Trump himself, members of Congress are complicit will have gotten the message and will be ore interested in saving their own asses than covering up for some mob-boss wannabe.

Once self-preservation becomes a priority, the political will will be there.

492
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2017 • 2:04:52pm

re: #328 HappyWarrior

I got a call from some non-profit for the FOP. I have no idea how they got my number but I feel reluctant to make donation. Not just because I only have so much money but because I feel the money I have would be better directed at otehr causes.

Watch those FOP donations. Always ask the percentage of the donated money going to the target (your local FOP). A lot of times it is ridiculously low like 5-10%. That is a scam.

493
ObserverArt  Dec 2, 2017 • 2:06:34pm

re: #333 makeitstop

I was reading through the thread at about 4AM, due to a disruptive cat and the onset of what appears to be a pretty nasty head cold.

I wanted to get up and toss my Kindle out the window.

The Brian J. Show.

Very low rated.

494
wheat-dogg  Dec 2, 2017 • 7:16:29pm

re: #444 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

So we went to visit the wild animal park in Dundee, Scotland. My wife had a cairn terrier that was always close at her feet. We saw no signs at the gate reading no dogs allowed and the ticket seller did not notice the dog, so we went in with the dog.

Coming to the wolf enclosure, I was surprised to see a wolf spot our dog and then run off…until I saw that he had simply gone off to alert the rest of the pack and bring them back!

We were later advised that dogs were not in fact allowed, we asked why there was no sign and the caretaker said that they were having such trouble formulating the text of a sign that indicated that seeing-eye or aid dogs were allowed that they elected not to put up a sign at all.

I found that rather odd.

But then again, it was Dundee.

Service dogs only? Works most places.


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