Fox News Poll Has Doug Jones Leading Roy Moore by 10 Points With Likely Voters

Given the source, I can’t help suspecting that this is actually some kind of scheme to make Alabama voters complacent and suppress turnout, but according to Fox News Doug Jones is now leading extreme right wing child molester Roy Moore by ten points in Alabama.

Democrat Doug Jones holds a 10-point lead over Republican Roy Moore among likely voters in deep red Alabama.

Greater party loyalty plus higher interest in the election among Democrats combined with more enthusiasm among Jones supporters gives him the advantage in the race to fill the U.S. Senate seat previously held by U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

That’s according to a Fox News Poll of Alabama voters conducted Thursday through Sunday using traditional polling techniques, including a list-based probability sample with both landlines and cellphones.

Jones receives 50 percent to Moore’s 40 percent, with 1-in-10 undecided (8 percent) or supporting another candidate (2 percent) — which could make a difference Tuesday. That’s even truer with such an unconventional election with unconventional candidates.

“Truer?” “Unconventional?” Don’t ever change, Fox.

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344 comments

1
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:20:02am

The kick to the nuts this would deliver to trump is almost too much to hope for.

2
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:20:06am

all tactical posturing: perhaps to make Dems complacent, to motivate GOP voters and/ or to make it look less bad if Moore loses by a smaller margin

3
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:23:49am

Any other polls with similar results? I don’t trust Fox, this could be just a creepy effort to drive conservatives to the voting booth. These fucking people, grrrrrr…..

4
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:27:09am

re: #3 A Mom Anon

Any other polls with similar results? I don’t trust Fox, this could be just a creepy effort to drive conservatives to the voting booth. These fucking people, grrrrrr…..

like I said, an outlier like this has to be some sort of tactical gambit

5
DodgerFan1988  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:27:19am

I’m still expecting Moore to win because we know conservative voters lie to pollsters to try and discredit media reporting on election day. Remember the Bradley Effect.

6
dangerman  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:27:29am

One unconventional candidate

8
Dave In Austin  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:32:05am

Sarah is NOT having a good day…….

9
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:32:31am
10
freetoken  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:33:07am

re: #8 Dave In Austin

Sarah is NOT having a good day…….

Is that Sanders? If so, has she ever had a good day since taking that job?

11
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:35:23am
12
Dave In Austin  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:35:25am

re: #10 freetoken

Is that Sanders? If so, has she ever had a good day since taking that job?

Yeah, She’s really getting hammered today. To the point of loss of control.

13
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:36:47am

re: #11 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Yet you had no problem using Bill Clinton’s alleged abuse victims to attack HRC, you spienless hypocrite.

14
SteelPH  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:36:58am

re: #11 The Vicious Babushka

Great. We can start with his resignation.

15
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:37:08am

re: #12 Dave In Austin

Yeah, She’s really getting hammered today. To the point of loss of control.

Good, I hope she’s miserable. No sympathy at all for her. She’s chosen to be a paid liar for Trump and co.

16
freetoken  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:37:20am

re: #12 Dave In Austin

There is no way to try and find a “high ground” in attempts to defend the gross immorality of Donald Trump. Any attempt to defend Trump is only going to blow up in Sarah’s face.

I wonder if she knew that?

If she did, I guess she figured the salary from this job, and the future prospects (on Fox, etc.) was going to be worth all the crap.

17
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:37:26am
18
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:38:36am

re: #12 Dave In Austin

Yeah, She’s really getting hammered today. To the point of loss of control.

Finally. Are they calling her out on all her lying?

19
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:39:50am

re: #3 A Mom Anon

Any other polls with similar results? I don’t trust Fox, this could be just a creepy effort to drive conservatives to the voting booth. These fucking people, grrrrrr…..

I saw a story earlier this morning that cited a polling outfit called Emerson that said Moore is up 9 points (Breitbart says the poll had him up ten)

But it looks like because of this Fox poll, the narrative is now that there’s ‘uncertainty’ about who’s ahead at this point.

At face value, it looks like this is an attempt by Fox to scare Republicans to the polls. But a potential pitfall is that it might discourage Rs who might think the race is out of reach.

20
Mattand  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:40:21am

re: #12 Dave In Austin

Yeah, She’s really getting hammered today. To the point of loss of control.

Good. Nice to see someone in the press corps holding her smug ass to the fire.

21
Mattand  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:41:52am

re: #16 freetoken

If she did, I guess she figured the salary from this job, and the future prospects (on Fox, etc.) was going to be worth all the crap.

This.

22
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:43:48am

I’ll believe (happily) Jones has won when 100% of the precincts have reported, Jones is certified the winner, and Jones takes his seat. Until then, I’m assuming the pedo is winning tomorrow.

23
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:45:04am
24
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:45:23am
25
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:45:32am
26
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:53:41am
27
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:55:21am

re: #26 JordanRules

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand calls on President Trump to resign

Hey, maybe it’ll work as well as it did on Franken.
/

28
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:57:20am

re: #26 JordanRules

Oh what a waste of time.

29
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 11:58:12am

re: #28 Ace Rothstein

Oh what a waste of time.

Maybe but at least she’s putting it out there that Trump’s record on women is horrid.

30
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:01:33pm
31
Stanley Sea  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:02:11pm

Something is happening.

He’s having a hard time reading - very forceful, not understanding a word he’s saying.

32
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:03:05pm

I know this is a Fox Poll and that is enough reason to cause some suspicion, however by most accounts the Fox polls are pretty straight forward. 538 pollster rating gives it an A rating with a very slight “D” bias.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

That doesn’t mean this poll is correct, but it is one of the few to include cell phone respondents.

I seriously doubt Jones is ahead by 10 but it is probably very close and every vote counts.

33
ipsos  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:03:17pm

re: #26 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

I would vote for a primary challenger to her next time she’s up, at this point.

34
Interesting Times  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:04:55pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

Something is happening.

He’s having a hard time reading - very forceful, not understanding a word he’s saying.

With respect, people have been saying this since last freaking year :/

I’ll believe something else is wrong with him when he actually keels over on stage or literally (as opposed to figuratively) smears feces on the walls.

35
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:06:11pm

re: #30 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

I’d love to see this.

36
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:07:11pm

re: #33 ipsos

Wow.

37
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:07:18pm

Now he’s making fun of the old people who voted for him and are protesting losing their Medicare

38
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:07:36pm

re: #34 Interesting Times

With respect, people have been saying this since last freaking year :/

I’ll believe something else is wrong with him when he actually keels over on stage or literally (as opposed to figuratively) smears feces on the walls.

I’ll note that there have been no photos of the White House residence made public.

39
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:08:04pm

re: #37 The Vicious Babushka

Now he’s making fun of the old people who voted for him and are protesting losing their Medicare

[Embedded content]

I really want to see him go bankrupt and live out his last days worse than those he and his slumlord Daddy treated.

40
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:08:25pm

re: #30 JordanRules

41
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:08:35pm

re: #38 makeitstop

I’ll note that there have been no photos of the White House residence made public.

You know the WH toilet just smells awful from all the shit he eats.

42
Amory Blaine  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:08:35pm

re: #34 Interesting Times

43
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:09:26pm
44
Varek Raith  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:09:55pm

re: #33 ipsos

I would vote for a primary challenger to her next time she’s up, at this point.

Why?
Is it because Franken couldn’t keep his hands to himself?
That’s all on him.

45
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:09:59pm

re: #40 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

That dude seems as sleezy as Trump himself.

46
Kragar  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:10:29pm

re: #30 JordanRules

47
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:11:18pm

You know what would shut those pesky women up? A good old-fashioned law suit. Sue ‘em, Donald!

48
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:11:54pm

re: #47 Barefoot Grin

You know what would shut those pesky women up? A good old-fashioned law suit. Sue ‘em, Donald!

He’s afraid of discovery being a bitch.

49
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:12:35pm

I find it very hard to believe that someone who talks about women the way Trump does isn’t a fucked up perv.

50
Kragar  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:13:41pm
51
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:15:01pm

re: #40 The Vicious Babushka

What a creep! Birds of a feather and all…

52
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:16:07pm
53
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:16:25pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Why?
Is it because Franken couldn’t keep his hands to himself?
That’s all on him.

I am not for a primary challenge, but she was the leader of “Franken must resign”. Why couldn’t they let the ethics investigation go through? I thought Democrats believed in due process (even in the senate)

Maybe, just maybe he would have been cleared.

Seems like it was a setup for now asking Trump to resign. Fat chance.

54
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:16:45pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Ryan really hates elderly people.

55
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:17:09pm
56
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:18:07pm
57
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:20:20pm

re: #56 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

No one knew what Mars was until now, believe me.

58
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:20:29pm

re: #50 Kragar

Tulip mania

Tulip mania, tulipmania, or tulipomania (Dutch names include: tulpenmanie, tulpomanie, tulpenwoede, tulpengekte and bollengekte) was a period in the Dutch Golden Age during which contract prices for some bulbs of the recently introduced and fashionable tulip reached extraordinarily high levels and then dramatically collapsed in February 1637. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble (or economic bubble); although some researchers have noted that the Kipper- und Wipperzeit (literally Tipper and See-saw) episode in 1619-1622, a Europe-wide chain of debasement of the metal content of coins to fund warfare, featured mania-like similarities to a bubble.

59
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:20:37pm

re: #56 Backwoods_Sleuth

JFC, he didn’t say that…right?

60
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:20:47pm

re: #36 JordanRules

Wow.

I have to agree. Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind when I think of her now. She needs to remove those rose colored glasses and see life as it is, not the perfect world we don’t live in.

61
ibob  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:22:28pm

re: #1 Skip Intro

The kick to the nuts this would deliver to trump is almost too much to hope for.

All of my family members that live in Alabama are planning to vote tomorrow for Doug Jones (all 5 of us). I still expect Moore to win because of the evangelical vote, but have been pleasantly surprised by the number of Doug Jones signs around town. Have not seen one Roy Moore sign and only one Roy Moore bumper sticker.

I don’t trust any of the polls because I believe many evangelicals just would not admit to supporting a serial molester and stalker to anyone outside of their inner circle. They will vote for Moore in the end because they truly believe Democrats are spawn of the devil.

62
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:22:47pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Why?
Is it because Franken couldn’t keep his hands to himself?
That’s all on him.

Because Franken got ratfucked with her help.

63
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:23:01pm

re: #60 MsJ

I don’t agree with most of the hard stances on this issue so I mostly stay out of it, but it seems like primarying her could be of the same nose spiting genre.

64
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:24:31pm

re: #56 Backwoods_Sleuth

Without watching that (which would only make me want to claw my eyeballs out)…did he really say that? (Please say no.)

65
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:25:26pm

You heard it here first.

66
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:26:53pm

re: #63 JordanRules

I don’t agree with most of the hard stances on this issue so I mostly stay out of it, but it seems like primarying her could be of the same nose spiting genre.

Almost everyone gets primaryied. I am disgusted by the call to resign without an ounce of investigation and with Roger fucking Stone being involved in this mess. I said it from day one.

A republican wrote a column yesterday about this calling out Stone’s ratfucking. But we had to give up a seat because everyone decided that Franken had to go.

67
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:27:20pm

re: #59 Ace Rothstein

re: #64 MsJ

Without watching that (which would only make me want to claw my eyeballs out)…did he really say that? (Please say no.)

my guess it’s SamBee being sarcastic.

68
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:27:22pm

re: #65 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

You heard it here first.

I agree.

69
Varek Raith  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:32:52pm

re: #50 Kragar

[Embedded content]

More sound than bitcoin.

70
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:33:21pm
71
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:33:52pm

re: #66 MsJ

And most people here completely agree. It’s a somewhat divisive issue overall though.

I will absolutely give a nod to the fact that the cabinet members she did not vote to confirm as others did are literally doing hella damage right now. Al’s seat may end up fine later. And Detroit will still be getting disenfranchised regardless.

72
Varek Raith  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:35:03pm

re: #62 MsJ

Because Franken got ratfucked with her help.

No.
Franken did this on his own. Not anyone else’s fault he’s a grabby perv.
He fucked up.

73
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:37:22pm
74
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:37:24pm

re: #71 JordanRules

And most people here completely agree. It’s a somewhat divisive issue overall though.

I will absolutely give a nod to the fact that the cabinet members she did not vote to confirm as others did are literally doing hella damage right now. Al’s seat may end up fine later. And Detroit will still be getting disenfranchised regardless.

It’s infuriating to me as we continue to play by different rules. We’ve played by different rules for decades but now it is to the point of broken democracy. Republicans broke it and have nothing to turn back to so they are going full bore into authoritarianism. Gleefully, no less.

Shit has to change and if we keep on being the good guys (which I wholeheartedly agree we should be) while they continue to be the bad guys, we are going to give up any shot at becoming the good COUNTRY again.

I wasn’t picking on you, btw. I just find this whole thing a f’ing mess and we’re going high (love you, Michelle!) while they chop off our fucking legs.

75
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:38:31pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

He wants to go to Alpha Centauri because he loves to watch Lost In Space!

76
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:41:33pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

he saw it in several movies

77
Belafon  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:41:39pm

re: #75 Joe Bacon 🌹

He wants to go to Alpha Centauri because he loves to watch Lost In Space!

Maybe his sons played Civilization.

78
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:42:12pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

woman at far lower right…checking her watch?

79
nines09  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:42:31pm

So when does Trump and the GOP slash funding for NASA? Tomorrow?

80
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:44:23pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

Ryan really hates elderly people.

Only the fraction who aren’t billionaires./

81
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:45:25pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

No.
Franken did this on his own. Not anyone else’s fault he’s a grabby perv.
He fucked up.

And the pile on for his resignation began after an anonymous woman accused him of putting his hand on her waist. During a photo op.

Such a pervert.

82
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:46:24pm

Off to get out the vote for Doug Jones. At an address on Alabama Street.

83
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:47:04pm

re: #66 MsJ

Almost everyone gets primaryied. I am disgusted by the call to resign without an ounce of investigation and with Roger fucking Stone being involved in this mess. I said it from day one.

A republican wrote a column yesterday about this calling out Stone’s ratfucking. But we had to give up a seat because everyone decided that Franken had to go.

We didn’t give up the seat. Franken will be replaced by a Democrat appointed by a Democratic Governor.

84
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:48:33pm

re: #83 Big Beautiful Door

We didn’t give up the seat. Franken will be replaced by a Democrat appointed by a Democratic Governor.

For a year at most. Then it is open season.

85
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:48:55pm

re: #81 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I don’t think that one was anonymous, it was Tina Dupuis. She’s a friend of Bob Cesca’s and has been around for awhile, I think she got started at Crooks and Liars blog many years ago.

86
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:50:16pm

re: #84 blueraven

For a year at most. Then it is open season.

There will be a special election in a midterm with an extremely unpopular GOP President in Minnesota. If the Democrats can’t win that in those conditions there is going to be a national GOP wave anyway.

87
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:51:28pm
88
CongoJack  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:51:56pm

re: #86 Big Beautiful Door

Or continual Russian ratfucking/interference.

89
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:52:01pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He couldn’t spell NASA is you spotted him both A’s.

90
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:53:11pm

There is a new Monmouth poll out showing Jones and Moore tied. I think this is going to be a close race.

91
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:53:58pm
92
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:54:03pm

re: #75 Joe Bacon 🌹

Oh no doubt! I definitely understand the strong feelings even if I don’t necessarily share them. I kinda appreciate that our side while clearly and necessarily grappling with the political strategy we’re also still essentially quarreling over how best to remain better. That’s cool and very serious.

It’s hard as hell to game out what can happen 6, 12, 18 months from now.

93
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:54:47pm

re: #92 JordanRules

Sorry Joe. That should be a reply to #74.

94
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:55:18pm

re: #91 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Great optics guys.

Did Moore get her phone number? Maybe the “pro-Trump” Superpac is a sekrit Soros operation./

95
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:55:32pm

re: #86 Big Beautiful Door

There will be a special election in a midterm with an extremely unpopular GOP President in Minnesota. If the Democrats can’t win that in those conditions there is going to be a national GOP wave anyway.

Same answer as last time you said this - Franken nearly lost that race with an extremely popular Democratic president. It’s not going to be the cinch you seem to think it’s going to be.

96
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:56:36pm
97
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:57:22pm

re: #94 Big Beautiful Door

Did Moore get her phone number? Maybe the “pro-Trump” Superpac is a sekrit Soros operation./

Even the Moore campaign hates Moore.

98
Varek Raith  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:58:00pm

re: #91 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Great optics guys.


..
.

99
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:58:10pm

re: #16 freetoken

There is no way to try and find a “high ground” in attempts to defend the gross immorality of Donald Trump. Any attempt to defend Trump is only going to blow up in Sarah’s face.

I wonder if she knew that?

If she did, I guess she figured the salary from this job, and the future prospects (on Fox, etc.) was going to be worth all the crap.

Book deal too. There is always a book deal for some crappy book about how her year(s) in the White House was tough but she put up a valiant fight against the ungodly leftist.

100
danarchy  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:58:30pm

re: #81 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

And the pile on for his resignation began after an anonymous woman accused him of putting his hand on her waist. During a photo op.

Such a pervert.

The pile on started earlier in the day before that accusation was made. Also that was Tina Dupuy, a liberal columnist and former communications director for a democratic Rep so I am guessing she isn’t part of some Roger Stone ratfucking.

Face it, Al Franken was handsy. My opinion is it probably rose to the level of an apology and possibly a censure, not a resignation. Al could have not resigned and likely there wouldn’t be a damn thing the senate would do about it. He decided it was best, for him and the party and presumably the country to resign.

101
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 12:58:31pm

re: #95 makeitstop

Same answer as last time you said this - Franken nearly lost that race with an extremely popular Democratic president. It’s not going to be the cinch you seem to think it’s going to be.

In my opinion its worth the risk. Democrats are energized across the country, and its time to make a stand to make this a better country; not play cynical political games.

102
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:00:05pm

re: #86 Big Beautiful Door

There will be a special election in a midterm with an extremely unpopular GOP President in Minnesota. If the Democrats can’t win that in those conditions there is going to be a national GOP wave anyway.

Yeah well, to me, this is about more than politics. It is about a man’s career and character being ruined without any redress. Also, some accusers are anonymous, some as slight as grabbing the waist or a kiss that didn’t land.

I would have preferred he had a chance to defend himself, let his accusers speak and then the proper action could be taken.

103
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:00:18pm

re: #19 makeitstop

I saw a story earlier this morning that cited a polling outfit called Emerson that said Moore is up 9 points (Breitbart says the poll had him up ten)

But it looks like because of this Fox poll, the narrative is now that there’s ‘uncertainty’ about who’s ahead at this point.

At face value, it looks like this is an attempt by Fox to scare Republicans to the polls. But a potential pitfall is that it might discourage Rs who might think the race is out of reach.

I mentioned earlier the polling people think the margin in these polls due to it being Alabama is 10 points. So even the Fox poll is saying too close to call as all of them are.

104
Varek Raith  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:00:49pm

Yep, all the accusers are part of a Stone conspiracy to get rid of Franken.
And 9/11 was an inside job.
e_e
Good night.

105
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:01:48pm
106
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:01:53pm

re: #101 Big Beautiful Door

In my opinion its worth the risk. Democrats are energized across the country, and its time to make a stand to make this a better country; not play cynical political games.

It’s impossible to tell the difference between the cynical political games and the earnest political games, at least from the outside.

107
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:02:41pm

re: #102 blueraven

Yeah well, to me, this is about more than politics. It is about a man’s career and character being ruined without any redress. Also, some accusers are anonymous, some as slight as grabbing the waist or a kiss that didn’t land.

I would have preferred he had a chance to defend himself, let his accusers speak and then the proper action could be taken.

He had a chance. Individual Senators have a lot of power, and none have been expelled since the Civil War. Franken chose to resign. I suspect he knows that the accusations aren’t going to cease at eight, so he decided to stop the bleeding.

108
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:03:57pm

re: #107 Big Beautiful Door

He had a chance. Individual Senators have a lot of power, and none have been expelled since the Civil War. Franken chose to resign. I suspect he knows that the accusations aren’t going to cease at eight, so he decided to stop the bleeding.

I bet they stop now. It’s over. Mission accomplished.

109
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:04:40pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

TZUL4QMS9yYJjMMOvkKHlHrmAdqiuzyaR0VTXiRkYJuxv2cdW8Fsk3VaUWGVAh7EAooRkucExb93ORjaThBfBrjM9RUmhIHZV8GCnuYcGKn8JwO8KzOeSRduEIQ0azmKsdvhTEwHYCESZzPQUjEE4+pB8F19YPF5

110
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:06:16pm

re: #108 blueraven

I bet they stop now. It’s over. Mission accomplished.

Considering how some Democrats are turning on women who come forward because they made the mistake of being harassed by a Democrat instead of a Republican, I wouldn’t blame anyone who chose to remain silent

111
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:06:29pm

re: #28 Ace Rothstein

Oh what a waste of time.

I look at all of this as tiny cuts on Trump. Inconsequential now but they build up to him getting more and more depressed and rattled for being the worst President in the history of America. He so wanted to grab the glory, so make sure that at every turn Americans are in his face about all the bad he brings to the office.

The crazier he gets the bigger the chances he is shuffled along. I want to see him to the point where it is extremely obvious he has to go.

112
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:07:25pm

/m7sKUNoRrRWoLaxp8i1dxZWqdC4Qr1h5t0NfTCEGJkjqDTb9EIPGtAUR+VNUOi+vFMpSNxSqkC7IqxuigCAfFiP/2jiyK1p6M9NYeKByZm6b27u0NdYyEAE+wenCfZl

113
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:08:01pm

re: #111 ObserverArt

I look at all of this as tiny cuts on Trump. Inconsequential now but they build up to him getting more and more depressed and rattled for being the worst President in the history of America. He so wanted to grab the glory, so make sure that at every turn Americans are in his face about all the bad he brings to the office.

The crazier he gets the bigger the chances he is shuffled along. I want to see him to the point where it is extremely obvious he has to go.

I finally saw a clip of Trump talking about his tax cuts, then suddenly stopping like he lost his train of thought and seguing into another “little rocket man” rant. It was bizarre.

114
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:10:45pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

BrvFQG0vNIsi3KD8ENBfWl1fwrhah8cduv16wk6jSLZ+wHIO07eZNkpGAHltJiU3RaDPdgGvW1E2m8+W0Hgs01gY8MFS+sGE+NE7A7B42lnqK0y7K//L1mYfNW9fxSNZGGSc8GwCmW3q4BsfiZzgwWDe/vaKGYy+0YwcwtiJznoftPC86C/VpnHoUKePzRvIN0Mktw3dYfM=

115
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:10:47pm

re: #101 Big Beautiful Door

In my opinion its worth the risk. Democrats are energized across the country, and its time to make a stand to make this a better country; not play cynical political games.

Yeah, good luck getting the opposition to meet you in the middle on that.

116
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:10:56pm

The place at the end is a Birmingham comedy club called the Stardome

117
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:12:46pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Yep, all the accusers are part of a Stone conspiracy to get rid of Franken.
And 9/11 was an inside job.
e_e
Good night.

Who, exactly, said all?

I’m pretty much convinced Tweeden was, and she got the ball rolling.

118
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:13:30pm

xO2L1+0c6cT/SnKU591uW1bRm3hwFix89PgslN271OYoQl6ZWBFU5A==

119
Belafon  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:14:15pm

re: #101 Big Beautiful Door

In my opinion its worth the risk. Democrats are energized across the country, and its time to make a stand to make this a better country; not play cynical political games.

I often look at due process as a cynical political ploy. //

120
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:14:38pm

re: #115 makeitstop

Yeah, good luck getting the opposition to meet you in the middle on that.

I’m counting on them not. I agree with Jeff Flake that if the GOP is the party of Trump and Moore they are toast. Anyway the prediction that only Democrats with harassment issues would resign has already been proven false with Franks resignation.

121
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:16:28pm

re: #117 makeitstop

Who, exactly, said all?

I’m pretty much convinced Tweeden was, and she got the ball rolling.

Amazing how they photoshopped that photo of Franken and Tweeden and then got Franken to admit it was real!/

122
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:16:54pm

re: #110 Big Beautiful Door

Considering how some Democrats are turning on women who come forward because they made the mistake of being harassed by a Democrat instead of a Republican, I wouldn’t blame anyone who chose to remain silent

All I said all along is that Franken deserves due process.

123
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:19:10pm

re: #121 Big Beautiful Door

Amazing how they photoshopped that photo of Franken and Tweeden and then got Franken to admit it was real!/

The picture when Franken was a comedian acting like a comedian? That picture? The one where he wasn’t actually touching her?

124
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:19:19pm

re: #119 Belafon

I often look at due process as a cynical political ploy. //

I frequently have cases in which people have pled guilty in a criminal case and then want to claim they were really innocent in an Administrative hearing, which is a big nope, you had your chance. Franken had his chance, and he chose to resign, so I’m not receptive to claims he would’ve been vindicated if only he had chosen to wait on an investigative report.

125
Kilroy was here  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:19:21pm
126
bill d. (b.d.)  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:19:35pm

And the hits keep coming:

The New Yorker has let go of its star reporter Ryan Lizza amid allegations of sexual misconduct, the magazine confirmed Monday.

thedailybeast.com

127
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:19:59pm

re: #120 Big Beautiful Door

I’m counting on them not. I agree with Jeff Flake that if the GOP is the party of Trump and Moore they are toast. Anyway the prediction that only Democrats with harassment issues would resign has already been proven false with Franks resignation.

Scoreboard - Republicans, 1 Democrats, 2

And Conyers’ seat is not going to be filled for 11 months. Even with Congress’ heavy work schedule (snerk), how much legislation do you think they’ll be able to pass without even worrying about Pence coming in to break the tie?

128
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:20:29pm

re: #123 MsJ

The picture when Franken was a comedian acting like a comedian? That picture? The one where he wasn’t actually touching her?

The one he admitted was degrading and humiliating not just to Tweeden but all women, and admitted it wasn’t funny at all?

129
danarchy  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:22:28pm

re: #127 makeitstop

Scoreboard - Republicans, 1 Democrats, 2

And Conyers’ seat is not going to be filled for 11 months. Even with Congress’ heavy work schedule (snerk), how much legislation do you think they’ll be able to pass without even worrying about Pence coming in to break the tie?

Conyers was in the house not the senate if I am not mistaken?

130
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:22:29pm

re: #127 makeitstop

Scoreboard - Republicans, 1 Democrats, 2

And Conyers’ seat is not going to be filled for 11 months. Even with Congress’ heavy work schedule (snerk), how much legislation do you think they’ll be able to pass without even worrying about Pence coming in to break the tie?

If you are going to argue here you need to have your facts straight. Conyers was a Representative, not a Senator. Pence can only break ties in the Senate.

131
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:22:30pm

re: #121 Big Beautiful Door

Amazing how they photoshopped that photo of Franken and Tweeden and then got Franken to admit it was real!/

Yeah, also pretty amazing that they coerce her buddy at the radio station into being buds with Roger Stone and convincing her to drop the photo, eh?

Also pretty amazing how they forced her to write a book to promote starting the day after she dropped the photo, right?

All coincidences. Bull. Shit.

132
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:23:44pm

re: #128 Big Beautiful Door

The one he admitted was degrading and humiliating not just to Tweeden but all women, and admitted it wasn’t funny at all?

I was not degraded nor humiliated. By Franken, at least.

133
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:24:25pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

No.
Franken did this on his own. Not anyone else’s fault he’s a grabby perv.
He fucked up.

You know…I sure am glad I am not a public figure in a public job at this time. It’s brutal.

The court is the media and the public. Franken gets no lawyer and really no defense at all. I wouldn’t want those odds. Would anyone here? Be real.

Nope. Glad to be some joe in Columbus Ohio. At least in my jobs I had some fight back against an employer. And even if you screw up and do something stupid out in public as an ordinary joe…you get to be represented by a lawyer and have a judge and or jury listen to your side and make a decision.

134
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:24:32pm

re: #128 Big Beautiful Door

The one he admitted was degrading and humiliating not just to Tweeden but all women, and admitted it wasn’t funny at all?

Yes. Precisely that.

135
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:24:40pm

re: #132 wrenchwench

I was not degraded nor humiliated. By Franken, at least.

I was only repeating what Franken himself admitted to.

136
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:25:01pm

re: #129 danarchy

Conyers was in the house not the senate if I am not mistaken?

My mistake.

Still, two less Democrats vs. one less Republican.

137
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:25:26pm

re: #131 makeitstop

Yeah, also pretty amazing that they coerce her buddy at the radio station into being buds with Roger Stone and convincing her to drop the photo, eh?

Also pretty amazing how they forced her to write a book to promote starting the day after she dropped the photo, right?

All coincidences. Bull. Shit.

And Stone was tweeting about it before it happened. Bull. Shit. Indeed.

138
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:25:44pm

re: #136 makeitstop

My mistake.

Still, two less Democrats vs. one less Republican.

That could be reversed if Jones wins tomorrow.

139
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:26:15pm

re: #130 Big Beautiful Door

If you are going to argue here you need to have your facts straight. Conyers was a Representative, not a Senator. Pence can only break ties in the Senate.

Yes, my mistake. Noted below above.

140
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:26:25pm

re: #135 Big Beautiful Door

I was only repeating what Franken himself admitted to.

He may have exaggerated under duress. Not blaming you.

141
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:26:54pm

re: #137 MsJ

And Stone was tweeting about it before it happened. Bull. Shit. Indeed.

If Tweeden told Stone before she went public that doesn’t make it any less true. Remember, photographic evidence.

142
Belafon  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:27:38pm

re: #124 Big Beautiful Door

I frequently have cases in which people have pled guilty in a criminal case and then want to claim they were really innocent in an Administrative hearing, which is a big nope, you had your chance. Franken had his chance, and he chose to resign, so I’m not receptive to claims he would’ve been vindicated if only he had chosen to wait on an investigative report.

Your defense is shit for what’s happening to Conyer’s seat. We can see the Republicans fucking with it.

Franken’s being pushed out is political in nature. His admitting was that he thought there were differences in what he thought happened and what they said and they needed to be investigated. I’ve seen more than once where people have been pushed out for political expediency, not the facts, and that comes back to bite them.

143
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:27:44pm

Hey, A Mom Anon!

You have received a gift: a one-year ad-free subscription to LGF, courtesy of “Teh Seekrit Soros.” Enjoy!

144
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:28:18pm

re: #138 Big Beautiful Door

That could be reversed if Jones wins tomorrow.

I’m not particularly optimistic about that possibility, TBH.

145
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:29:54pm

re: #110 Big Beautiful Door

Considering how some Democrats are turning on women who come forward because they made the mistake of being harassed by a Democrat instead of a Republican, I wouldn’t blame anyone who chose to remain silent

I’m sorry, they wouldn’t have to be public. They would have just have to participate in an ethics committee investigation. For goodness sake, someone should be able to face their accusers. But I guess you and others have found him guilty and think he doesn’t deserve that.

OK fine. But this is not how we are supposed to operate in this country.

146
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:30:01pm

260LAKdOOmdLGRNtmZZ8Efoz79oTy6fv2rAjAbDR3E8KYb+Jx9c0PqOIUxl3WLNAsA5vXz/5QGfTw/jsBHsNwTlZ3bt7KyMcjDQ/xystqFJaaR+QnrrUYzB6g9WxV3tkwbMPL9g6mroNRioZcvC9vjDy8y9/jzE4O81X44wkKP+/cpH+sxV+RrbB0vCdvrpDExL1UaZLoSrrnSiGjH62LDJGkfg10ls5eRxbe4TSNpBDp12xFl4no93mR2xQoOY7zwPsrggD6gUFXwd5alOe3Pfs/67806Ji9kZ4ePDsFD8caI3vRSPK5A==

147
Teukka  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:30:07pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

Hey, A Mom Anon!

You have received a gift: a one-year ad-free subscription to LGF, courtesy of “Teh Seekrit Soros.” Enjoy!

cho0rEGxLx0tEH2jFT/ETqhy7Ovx2lQcn85Nz0swmykA36ugt7tD9zjob2tMMGJJLMz6wKyH2pt350ju7skpNWfuGlyBQLNtl5zH0eHuOT6b8d8Y7GrALQZgzxnpMpeeJOAtSU4PiwSgxYHgNcwoQWkFTpUm+FRV2VTePZwnLVt7NE6emLhZsg==

148
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:33:25pm

re: #86 Big Beautiful Door

There will be a special election in a midterm with an extremely unpopular GOP President in Minnesota. If the Democrats can’t win that in those conditions there is going to be a national GOP wave anyway.

And you are willing to go with the voting public in this political atmosphere???

Did you miss last year’s big election? : )

“RISK”

149
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:37:08pm

re: #100 danarchy

The pile on started earlier in the day before that accusation was made. Also that was Tina Dupuy, a liberal columnist and former communications director for a democratic Rep so I am guessing she isn’t part of some Roger Stone ratfucking.

Face it, Al Franken was handsy. My opinion is it probably rose to the level of an apology and possibly a censure, not a resignation. Al could have not resigned and likely there wouldn’t be a damn thing the senate would do about it. He decided it was best, for him and the party and presumably the country to resign.

In the face of a firing squad of millions…he probably decided it was best not to take his chances when they all had loaded guns.

“Onslaught”

150
I Would Prefer Not To  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:38:32pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

Hey, A Mom Anon!

You have received a gift: a one-year ad-free subscription to LGF, courtesy of “Teh Seekrit Soros.” Enjoy!

Mom Anon Rocks.

151
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:39:04pm
152
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:39:23pm

re: #150 I Would Prefer Not To

Mom Anon Rocks.

Indeed she does.

153
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:39:36pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

Oh wow that’s so awesome! I’ve been having just a shit time lately and now I’m crying and well, just thanks so much.

154
Dr. Matt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:39:58pm

I bought all fellow Lizards donuts this morning, but I ate them. It’s the thought that counts.

155
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:40:14pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Yep, all the accusers are part of a Stone conspiracy to get rid of Franken.
And 9/11 was an inside job.
e_e
Good night.

I don’t recall anyone saying that.

156
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:41:35pm
157
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:42:06pm

re: #154 Dr. Matt

I bought all fellow Lizards donuts this morning, but I ate them. It’s the thought that counts.

Lizards may start nibbling at your brain. That’s where you keep those thoughts of donuts, right?

158
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:44:39pm
159
petesh  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:45:48pm

re: #148 ObserverArt

And you are willing to go with the voting public in this political atmosphere???

Did you miss last year’s big election? : )

“RISK”

Let’s not bring political calculation into it. There are important and still unsettled matters of principle here. What is the appropriate response to what behavior? It looks like we may have an extremely paradoxical situation, with Trump staying, possibly joined by Moore, and Franken going, accompanied by some much worse jerks. But let’s try to figure out what’s right and do it.

Also @ BBD: C’mon, drop it. It’s over. Franken is gone. Yes, I personally think that a reprimand rather than resignation was probably appropriate, but it’s over the top to characterize his resignation as a voluntary admission, given that it was called for by a majority of his colleagues in the party. Indeed, (1) as soon as accused (give or take an hour of shock) he asked for an Ethics enquiry, which he hasn’t had; (2) when he did resign, he reaffirmed his denials and his claims of misunderstanding.

Please let it go, everyone.

160
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:47:37pm
161
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:48:01pm

re: #141 Big Beautiful Door

If Tweeden told Stone before she went public that doesn’t make it any less true. Remember, photographic evidence.

Of a comedian acting like a comedian.

162
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:49:44pm

Hmm.

163
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:50:49pm

re: #121 Big Beautiful Door

Amazing how they photoshopped that photo of Franken and Tweeden and then got Franken to admit it was real!/

Come on, I am willing to allow your opinions, but I think you are reaching.

This is exactly why Franken isn’t getting a fair deal.

Did he touch her, or did he do a stupid stunt?

If it was a stunt, which it really appeared to be, it appears you are saying that was enough to get him kicked out.

What do you have as your proof that would stand up in a court? The image that shows he may not have even been touching her at all, which is very probable in him being a sophomoric ass, is that it?

I thought with you it was the kiss?

Are the goalposts moving? Is the kangaroo right outside the courtroom doors. : )

Like I said, glad I am not in this kind of a mess.

164
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:52:08pm

re: #100 danarchy

The pile on started earlier in the day before that accusation was made. Also that was Tina Dupuy, a liberal columnist and former communications director for a democratic Rep so I am guessing she isn’t part of some Roger Stone ratfucking.

Face it, Al Franken was handsy. My opinion is it probably rose to the level of an apology and possibly a censure, not a resignation. Al could have not resigned and likely there wouldn’t be a damn thing the senate would do about it. He decided it was best, for him and the party and presumably the country to resign.

With all due respect, maybe he was handsy - as you put it. But we will never know the real truth. I don’t think everything was a Roger Stone plot, but The Right hated Franken. They blame him for Mueller. He was the one who questioned Sessions about meeting with Russians. They believe if Sessions hadn’t recused himself there would be no Mueller. He was a target.

Without the first woman coming forward, I doubt others would have given a lot of thought to possible inappropriate or boorish behavior, none of which rises to the level of sexual harassment. As you say, the punishment does not fit the crime. And I don’t think he “decided” to resign. At some point when your colleagues turn against you, you are ineffective in your job. He probably felt he was hurting the party.

The whole thing sucks.

165
Charles Johnson  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:52:25pm
166
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:52:40pm

re: #128 Big Beautiful Door

The one he admitted was degrading and humiliating not just to Tweeden but all women, and admitted it wasn’t funny at all?

Which it was.

Was it enough for him to lose a seat over?

And you are a lawyer?

167
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:52:53pm

meanwhile in Kentucky, the circus continues:

168
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:54:54pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

Hey, A Mom Anon!

You have received a gift: a one-year ad-free subscription to LGF, courtesy of “Teh Seekrit Soros.” Enjoy!

Yay!!!!

We get more Mom this way.

Thanks Secret Soros.

169
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:55:23pm

good grief

170
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:57:06pm

:D

171
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:57:30pm

re: #151 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Andrea made a funny!

172
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:58:14pm

re: #164 blueraven

Grabbing someone’s bum when it’s not consensual is certainly something wrong, if not harassment. Just speaking in general not to these specific accusations. Groping is a problem.

173
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:58:22pm

re: #171 Barefoot Grin

Andrea made a funny!

I was amazed!

174
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:58:47pm

re: #105 Ace-o-aces

Alex Seitz-Wald

@aseitzwald
Doug Jones campaign says he’s attended 227 events over the past 2 months.

Stark contrast to Roy Moore, who has gone days without surfacing. Will make first public appearance in nearly a week tonight.

aceoaces
@aceoaces
Is it Junior-High prom night already?
3:01 PM - Dec 11, 2017
Replies Retweets likes

It’s Alabama — The Republican doesn’t have to campaign because the Evangelicals and racists have a strong GOTV campaign. Don’t expect good news from any state in the deep South.

175
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:59:02pm

re: #158 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Can I suggest Donald Trump to be the first human to land on the Sun?

176
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 1:59:26pm
177
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:00:24pm

re: #169 Backwoods_Sleuth

Oh good Lord. Part of me wants to just laugh at how fucking stupid this crap is. The other part? I’m reminded of the time my Grandma took off a shoe and smacked the shit out of one of my boy cousins when I was a kid for calling a black woman a “stupid n*****” in front of her. Then she made him write a letter of apology to his younger cousins for being a bad influence. (now, where is my good smacking shoe when I need it?….)

178
blueraven  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:01:26pm

re: #172 JordanRules

Grabbing someone’s bum when it’s not consensual is certainly something wrong, if not harassment. Just speaking in general not to these specific accusations. Groping is a problem.

I agree.

179
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:02:04pm
180
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:02:25pm

re: #159 petesh

Let’s not bring political calculation into it. There are important and still unsettled matters of principle here. What is the appropriate response to what behavior? It looks like we may have an extremely paradoxical situation, with Trump staying, possibly joined by Moore, and Franken going, accompanied by some much worse jerks. But let’s try to figure out what’s right and do it.

Also @ BBD: C’mon, drop it. It’s over. Franken is gone. Yes, I personally think that a reprimand rather than resignation was probably appropriate, but it’s over the top to characterize his resignation as a voluntary admission, given that it was called for by a majority of his colleagues in the party. Indeed, (1) as soon as accused (give or take an hour of shock) he asked for an Ethics enquiry, which he hasn’t had; (2) when he did resign, he reaffirmed his denials and his claims of misunderstanding.

Please let it go, everyone.

I don’t think something like this can be let go. Why? It is going to happen again.

I can understand cautioning the members about being decent to each other.

But we will be revisiting this all again, probably soon.

181
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:03:21pm
182
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:06:01pm
183
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:07:11pm

re: #167 Backwoods_Sleuth

meanwhile in Kentucky, the circus continues:

[Embedded content]

Less than amazed:

On New Year’s Eve in 2012, Dan Johnson, who was elected to the state House in 2016, allegedly forcibly kissed, groped and used his finger to penetrate then 17-year-old Maranda Richmond, despite her asking him to stop, according to a report by the Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting.

Johnson, who goes by the nickname “Pope,” is the “bishop” of the Heart of Fire Baptist Church in Louisville. He now represents the 49th House District in a portion of Bullitt County.

Richmond, who belonged to the church at the time, told the Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting that she saw Johnson as a “second Dad.”

184
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:08:49pm

re: #183 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Less than amazed:

Dan Johnson is a complete nightmare.
And everybody who voted for him knew what he was.

185
petesh  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:09:09pm

re: #180 ObserverArt

I don’t think something like this can be let go. Why? It is going to happen again.

I can understand cautioning the members about being decent to each other.

But we will be revisiting this all again, probably soon.

Sadly, yes. I was mostly responding to the back-and-forth earlier in this thread. I suppose you could argue that Franken is a borderline case and therefore worth inspecting in detail, but that’s pretty hard on Al. Maybe one day Franni will weigh in, poor woman.

186
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:11:13pm
187
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:12:03pm

re: #180 ObserverArt

I think men need to be having these conversations among themselves, and FFS start calling out the men they know who think this is OK. I think the rule of thumb ought to be a fairly simple one: would you do this to a male collegue or friend or waiter or bartender? If the answer is no, then don’t. If your answer is yes, then you still need to check yourself.

I really do not think many men understand what this does to women and girls. It’s not just rape culture, it’s the idea of women not being fully formed humans deserving of dignity and respect. I don’t care if she’s a stripper or a sex worker or your 95 yr old grandma. Women are not property, we should be past this right now, and hopefully this will shift some men’s thinking (and yes, men are also victimized, and the same rules apply). Because at the end of all this, the heavy lifting is on men to start creating some sort of different definition of masculinity. Guys who do this won’t listen to women and they will defend and minimize this, male opinions of them matter more than ours.

188
Weaselone  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:12:22pm

Fox had Northam up five the day before the election in Virginia. We all know how that turned out.

189
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:13:19pm
190
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:16:30pm

re: #189 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“But I will call them liars.”

191
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:17:14pm
192
petesh  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:18:55pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

I think men need to be having these conversations among themselves, and FFS start calling out the men they know who think this is OK. I think the rule of thumb ought to be a fairly simple one: would you do this to a male collegue or friend or waiter or bartender? If the answer is no, then don’t. If your answer is yes, then you still need to check yourself.

I really do not think many men understand what this does to women and girls. It’s not just rape culture, it’s the idea of women not being fully formed humans deserving of dignity and respect. I don’t care if she’s a stripper or a sex worker or your 95 yr old grandma. Women are not property, we should be past this right now, and hopefully this will shift some men’s thinking (and yes, men are also victimized, and the same rules apply). Because at the end of all this, the heavy lifting is on men to start creating some sort of different definition of masculinity. Guys who do this won’t listen to women and they will defend and minimize this, male opinions of them matter more than ours.

This.

Back in the day when I waited tables, an asshole harassed his waitress. After consulting with her, I was the one who went and gave him his check and the boot. We all knew he wouldn’t take it from her. He threatened me (claimed to know the owner) but grudgingly accepted. (I never got reprimanded, incidentally.) I shouldn’t have to look after her, but whaddyado? This whole imbalance is going to take at least a couple of generations to end.

193
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:20:22pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

Dan Johnson is a complete nightmare.
And everybody who voted for him knew what he was.

194
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:20:38pm

Ryan Lizza fired from New Yorker for “what we believe to be improper sexual conduct.”

195
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:21:35pm

This is the article I referred to above.

196
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:21:58pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

Many updings to you!!!

197
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:25:06pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

Guys who do this won’t listen to women and they will defend and minimize this, male opinions of them matter more than ours.

Those guys won’t listen to men either. They will label them sissies or somesuch. It is learned behavior from people they want to be like. It is also handed down. It is considered manly in a way too.

It has to be taught in the family structure and also in schools, churches, workplaces and for sure in the courts…where a lot of this will be going, because there is a lot of this coming.

The problem is it exists in schools, churches, workplaces at this time, so it needs to be worked out the hard way. In the courts after allegations get to that point. And that will be up to the women to press the charges. Men can assist, help, witness etc.

198
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:28:00pm

re: #197 ObserverArt

Not everything is and will be criminal. So in all those places you mentioned it is important for men to help teach men how to be better men.

199
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:31:52pm

re: #196 JordanRules

Thanks. I’m trying to be careful here, because I do feel that no one can tell another person what their boundries are or aren’t. But it really is going to take a couple of generations to weed most of this out. I don’t think we’ll ever be rid of it entirely, but maybe we can drive it out of daily life.

I feel sorry for the guys, the MRA types, who simply do not get that failed relationships with women are on them. Being some asshole with abhorrent ideas about women isn’t going to lead to any kind of relationship, let alone sex. And it is sad, because they have the power to fix that and won’t. Something went wrong, bad socialization maybe, or perhaps they feel if a woman isn’t a model she’s not worth the time and is worthy of derision and scorn. They’re missing so much by being so narrow and unwavering. But they have no male feedback that would lead them away from that madness. It’s very frightening, but more sad than anything else.

200
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:33:33pm

re: #169 Backwoods_Sleuth

good grief

[Embedded content]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

201
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:33:46pm

re: #198 JordanRules

Not everything is and will be criminal. So in all those places you mentioned it is important for men to help teach men how to be better men.

It is behavior that will carry on in some guys no matter what. This is how they think and act. It is very deeply set behavior. And some of the same are extremely hard headed. Extremely. That is why for some of them, change will occur only after they really pay for it. Hearing it from some others will not be enough.

As others are saying. This will take generation because truthfully many men have thought like women are their property and pleasure toys for as long as we have been around.

This is a huge issue.

202
William Lewis  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:35:43pm

Went for a little drive this afternoon through a windswept northern Wisconsin. I put up a page with the results, I hope you might take a peak and perhaps enjoy the results.

Seasons Turn and Greet Us, Ready or Not

203
goddamnedfrank  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:38:17pm
204
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:38:30pm

re: #201 ObserverArt

All that’s true and underscores why it’s important that men help in every day interactions by being aware of this and being better. That is a big part of how it changes over generations.

Yes indeed, patriarchy is a huge issue.

205
makeitstop  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:52:09pm
206
I cannot.  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:54:01pm

Interesting ad in the sidebar for a company called instrumart…I haven’t done any searches recently for engineering/scientific stuff…now I will.

Sees something called a Balometer…has NO idea what it is…searches for “What is a balometer used for”…begin browsing their catalog…

I have no idea what most of this shit is, or what it’s used for, and I’ll never have a reason to buy or use any of it, but still…

207
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:56:33pm

=re: #205 makeitstop

[Embedded content]

If wingnuts were smart-I know), they’d see that non-Muslim New Yorkers encounter Muslims everyday and don’t see this as an excuse to treat all Muslims like crap. It’s why I greatly respect the “New York values” that Calgary Cruz attacked in teh primaries.

208
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:58:05pm

Am not a happy camper right now. I decided to respond to the 60th request I received this weekend to contribute AGAIN to Doug Jones. Thought I selected $100 but ActBlue responded with thanks for a $750 contribution. Sent them a note right back on this — but I probably need to call a person too. This is a little outside of my budget.

209
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 2:59:27pm

re: #208 Hecuba’s daughter

Am not a happy camper right now. I decided to respond to the 60th request I received this weekend to contribute AGAIN to Doug Jones. Thought I selected $100 but ActBlue responded with thanks for a $750 contribution. Sent them a note right back on this — but I probably need to call a person too. This is a little outside of my budget.

I really wish campaigns would respect that. And the thing is it usually get some young volunteer who is just doing their job on the receiving end of someone who is understandably annoyed.

210
bill d. (b.d.)  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:05:05pm

We really need to win The House:

With regard to the “Access Hollywood” tape, 62.4 percent believe “Mr. Trump was admitting that he sexually assaulted women.” And here’s the kicker: “Nearly two thirds of Americans (65.5%) believe that if the accusations can be proven, President Trump should be impeached by the U.S. Congress.”

washingtonpost.com

211
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:05:22pm

re: #208 Hecuba’s daughter

Am not a happy camper right now. I decided to respond to the 60th request I received this weekend to contribute AGAIN to Doug Jones. Thought I selected $100 but ActBlue responded with thanks for a $750 contribution. Sent them a note right back on this — but I probably need to call a person too. This is a little outside of my budget.

They should get back to you quickly with the cancellation (they did with me yesterday).

212
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:06:29pm

I seem to keep showing up at these dust-ups over Franken late. Most I’ll say on the matter at this time is that if you’re banking on the #MeToo movement to be as relevant in a year as it is now, then you’re giving way too much credit to the goldfish-length memories of the electorate. Especially when there are already grumblings that the movement may face a backlash over the “zero tolerance” stance that women like Gillibrand have promoted.

213
mmmirele  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:06:39pm

re: #58 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

I have a friend, David Gerard, who has written a book about bitcoin and the blockchain, called “Attack of the 50-Foot Blockchain.” He’s been on the BBC talking about bitcoin and the blockchain.

amazon.com

It’s a cheap, relatively short read, and his opinion is that bitcoin is like investing in tulips or the South Sea Bubble. In fact, he told me that the book on the bitcoin mania has been written. It’s called “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” by Charles Mackey and was published in 1842.

214
mmmirele  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:08:49pm

re: #77 Belafon

Maybe his sons played Civilization.

I want to go to Alpha Centauri because I played Alpha Centauri. I absolutely love that game. It’s 16 years old, has crummy graphics but I love it to pieces.

215
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:09:49pm

re: #214 mmmirele

I want to go to Alpha Centauri because I played Alpha Centauri. I absolutely love that game. It’s 16 years old, has crummy graphics but I love it to pieces.

Think the closest you’ll find today is its spiritual successor, Beyond Earth.

216
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:10:40pm

re: #210 bill d. (b.d.)

We really need to win The House:

With regard to the “Access Hollywood” tape, 62.4 percent believe “Mr. Trump was admitting that he sexually assaulted women.” And here’s the kicker: “Nearly two thirds of Americans (65.5%) believe that if the accusations can be proven, President Trump should be impeached by the U.S. Congress.”

washingtonpost.com

Question for the group and especially anyone in law. How do you prove these types of allegations after the fact and so much time? What would be acceptable proof and testimony?

217
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:12:13pm

re: #213 mmmirele

Something came across my Facebook newsfeed about bitcoin being a preferred method of hiding money for neo nazis. They are amassing fortunes of this stuff. I don’t get it, what can you actually buy with it? I doubt your mortgage company or the grocery store take bitcoin, so how do you make money off it? I sound ignorant, and on this topic I am, but it makes no sense to my practical brain.

218
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:13:13pm

re: #213 mmmirele

I have a friend, David Gerard, who has written a book about bitcoin and the blockchain, called “Attack of the 50-Foot Blockchain.” He’s been on the BBC talking about bitcoin and the blockchain.

amazon.com

It’s a cheap, relatively short read, and his opinion is that bitcoin is like investing in tulips or the South Sea Bubble. In fact, he told me that the book on the bitcoin mania has been written. It’s called “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” by Charles Mackey and was published in 1842.

Very familiar with Extraodinary Popular Delusions…..
I first read it in college and it has saved me a lot of money over the years.

219
bill d. (b.d.)  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:14:14pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

Question for the group and especially anyone in law. How do you prove these types of allegations after the fact and so much time? What would be acceptable proof and testimony?

Testimony, I am sure the would be no physical evidence this late in the game. (at least from the ones who have come forward so far.)

220
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:19:22pm

re: #219 bill d. (b.d.)

Testimony, I am sure the would be no physical evidence this late in the game. (at least from the ones who have come forward so far.)

So, he said, she said.

That sounds like good expensive shark lawyer versus a hope and a prayer.

I do believe because of all a woman would be up against, it is very clear why they end up letting it go and all the years rush by.

Looks like there is a window here with public perception though, some testimony might actually work, but still seems thin against the powerful.

221
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:23:09pm

re: #213 mmmirele

If you invested a grand in January, you’d have 16k now. The recent increase made up for my $90 loss in the NiceHash heist. I think it’s a bubble. I just wish I could predict when it’ll pop, and I really wish I’d bought a bunch when it was under a dollar.

222
I cannot.  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:23:27pm

re: #217 A Mom Anon

You can’t go to most stores and buy stuff with it, even online stores. But you can trade it among people who are willing to accept them, many of whom value the anonymity and untraceability of BTC.

i.e. SovCits who don’t think they are required to pay taxes because of a gold fringe on flags or something.
A guy that will give you a discount on something if you pay in cash or BTC…because taxes.
A guy that will…take care of a problem for you, all you have to do is give them a picture of the problem and where they live.

BUT…you also have other cases…
Sex work, if one chooses to do that, is a job…it shouldn’t be criminalized as it is . And BTC allows anonymous transfers of value.
Someone hiding from an abuser can have an untraceable, and easily accessible source of money.

223
I cannot.  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:24:23pm
224
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:27:38pm

re: #222 I cannot.

So you can cash it in for actual money?

225
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:32:17pm
226
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:33:30pm

re: #225 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

“WHITE PEOPLE CAN’T BE TERRORISTS!!!”

227
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:35:54pm

re: #225 Ace-o-aces

But them immigrants are the real danger.

228
I cannot.  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:37:47pm

re: #224 A Mom Anon

If I understand it, you can basically sell the BTC to someone for real money, or trade it to another BTC user for goods and services.

Cashing it in sort of implies that there is a centralized BTC “bank” where you can turn it over for dollars (or rubles etc), there isn’t. But there are exchanges where you can sell them for money.

It’s sort of the difference between a stock market and a bank.

ETA: Except with the stock market you buy shares of an actual thing that has assets, an address, people listed as managers, with BTC, you have…none of that, really.

229
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:40:00pm

re: #148 ObserverArt

And you are willing to go with the voting public in this political atmosphere???

Did you miss last year’s big election? : )

“RISK”

Absolutely I am. 54% of the voting public voted against Trump, and they don’t like him any more now than they did then. If the Democrats can’t win midterms in bluish states with one of the most unpopular president’s in history in office, then I don’t know why you are bothering to fret about Franken’s seat; the Democrats are going to be swept out of office across the nation in a GOP wave. I happen to think that its going to be the exact opposite; that this political atmosphere is prime for a Democratic wave, so Franken’s seat should be an easy pickup.

230
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:40:09pm

re: #225 Ace-o-aces

It’s pretty stunning how soon we forgot Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, hell even the shooting in Las Vegas is slipping out of our national memory. I think this is part of what I have a hard time forgiving, the purposeful dividing up of communties with hate and fear, all to win elections and stuff pockets with money. Greed is the thing that’s going to kill us in the end.

231
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:41:38pm

re: #229 Big Beautiful Door

Absolutely I am. 54% of the voting public voted against Trump, and they don’t like him any more now than they did then. If the Democrats can’t win midterms in bluish states with one of the most unpopular president’s in history in office, then I don’t know why you are bothering to fret about Franken’s seat; the Democrats are going to be swept out of office across the nation in a GOP wave. I happen to think that its going to be the exact opposite; that this political atmosphere is prime for a Democratic wave, so Franken’s seat should be an easy pickup.

You do remember that the DNC managed to lose the “Kennedy seat” in a deep blue state by running a lackluster candidate whose campaign slogan effectively was “I’m entitled to it,” right?

232
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:46:40pm

re: #166 ObserverArt

Which it was.

Was it enough for him to lose a seat over?

And you are a lawyer?

I am, but whether this was enough for Franken to lose his job over is a political, not a legal issue. Franken himself made the decision that once there were eight accusers and a large portion of his Caucus had called for his resignation that the politic decision was to resign. Legally he was entitled to hold his seat for the remainder of his term unless the Senate expelled him.

233
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:46:52pm

re: #231 Targetpractice

You do remember that the DNC managed to lose the “Kennedy seat” in a deep blue state by running a lackluster candidate whose campaign slogan effectively was “I’m entitled to it,” right?

And of course that very criticism was used against Hillary and many said that is how she made them feel and why she lost.

I guess she needed to beg more.

234
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:47:09pm

CBS News is carrying the Moore rally live from Midland City. Biggest thing that happened there since the Wetumpka Meteor came in 83 million years ago.

235
A Mom Anon  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:47:41pm

Dinner calls so I must go finish up and clean up. Thanks to my “secret Soros Santa”, whoever you are. You helped me a lot more than you realize. Love you scaly ones….BBL

236
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:49:10pm

And let’s not forget that we’re in exactly the position that I warned about last week and was scoffed at, running a wide-open field in 2018 for Franken’s seat when I was assured that we’d instead have a female incumbent with a year’s worth of achievements to run upon. If I were a GOP strategist, I’d consider it manna from heaven: A contested seat in a purple state up for grabs 2 years early, where there is a number of strong Republican contenders and no Dem incumbent but instead a fill-in placed due solely to her gender and the former incumbent forced from office in disgrace in a political controversial fashion.

237
dangerman  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:51:18pm

no time to play today

tonight’s dinner, one of mrs dm’s favs:

broiled salmon
steamed edamame (in the pods)
farro

play nice now

238
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:56:46pm

re: #232 Big Beautiful Door

I am, but whether this was enough for Franken to lose his job over is a political, not a legal issue. Franken himself made the decision that once there were eight accusers and a large portion of his Caucus had called for his resignation that the politic decision was to resign. Legally he was entitled to hold his seat for the remainder of his term unless the Senate expelled him.

So keeping it in the court/legal realm, you agree as a lawyer that photo was thin proof of touching/groping and could be sold as nothing more than a stupid prank.

That was what I was hoping when I made the bad crack about you being a lawyer. I was hoping you weren’t saying you could build a case around that image. I’d be calling in some of the others on the plane like the photographer and the people in the immediate area. And of course question Leeann about timing and other images after the incident, etc.

And that is what is sad about the political end of it. The whole thing started on the image and the kiss and there is serious contention of the actual details of both.

And yet, it was more than enough to have many call for his resignation.

239
scottslemmons  Dec 11, 2017 • 3:57:46pm

About to talk to my insurance guy about next year’s health insurance. Initial indications are that it’s going to be a $500/month bloodbath. Probably worse than that. Still, what can you do. :/

240
William Lewis  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:02:28pm

re: #239 scottslemmons

About to talk to my insurance guy about next year’s health insurance. Initial indications are that it’s going to be a $500/month bloodbath. Probably worse than that. Still, what can you do. :/

That’s why I signed up for my VA bennies finally. Never really thought about it much till insurance costs, even for Obamacare Silver, got to be too much.

241
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:03:02pm

re: #230 A Mom Anon

It’s pretty stunning how soon we forgot Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, hell even the shooting in Las Vegas is slipping out of our national memory. I think this is part of what I have a hard time forgiving, the purposeful dividing up of communties with hate and fear, all to win elections and stuff pockets with money. Greed is the thing that’s going to kill us in the end.

Texas church shooting…

242
FormerDirtDart  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:05:06pm

Frankly, that’s who I thought it would be

243
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:06:20pm

re: #239 scottslemmons

Thanks, Trump.

244
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:06:25pm

re: #242 FormerDirtDart

Frankly, that’s who I thought it would be

[Embedded content]

He was the first one who came to my mind when the advance warnings came last night. Not sure why I immediately thought of him but good to know my instincts are sharp.

245
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:06:26pm
13
Charles Johnson
11/16/2013 11:32:59 am PST

re: #12 wrenchwench

We need pictures of the Blackhawk full of bunnehs.

As requested, only took four years.

It’s more like pictures of boxes that have bunnies in them, but close enough for government work.

As I recall, the best line that didn’t make it into the article (linked at my original comment, and still worth reading in full) was: Pilot, ‘Did you say “rabbits”? Do you know it costs $5,000.00 just to start one of these things [helicopters]?’ Firefighter: ‘I’m sorry, we have our orders.’ Pilot, ‘Don’t apologize, it’s the first worthwhile mission I’ve flown!’

246
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:09:27pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

Question for the group and especially anyone in law. How do you prove these types of allegations after the fact and so much time? What would be acceptable proof and testimony?

Contemporaneous statements to other persons that the events happen are valuable to show the victims aren’t just making it up. Also having multiple victims of similar acts shows a pattern of behavior. And, of course, there is Trump’s taped confession. That all adds up to a very solid case.

247
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:10:37pm

re: #242 FormerDirtDart

Frankly, that’s who I thought it would be

[Embedded content]

Never heard of him.

248
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:10:38pm

Got my latest AARP magazine. No helpful articles on how to keep from getting kicked out of the mall.

249
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:12:30pm

250
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:12:35pm

re: #245 wrenchwench

As requested, only took four years.

[Embedded content]

It’s more like pictures of boxes that have bunnies in them, but close enough for government work.

As I recall, the best line that didn’t make it into the article (linked at my original comment, and still worth reading in full) was: Pilot, ‘Did you say “rabbits”? Do you know it costs $5,000.00 just to start one of these things [helicopters]?’ Firefighter: ‘I’m sorry, we have our orders.’ Pilot, ‘Don’t apologize, it’s the first worthwhile mission I’ve flown!’

Bunnies Not in Boxes are abbreviated “FOD”.
en.wikipedia.org

251
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:14:53pm

re: #231 Targetpractice

You do remember that the DNC managed to lose the “Kennedy seat” in a deep blue state by running a lackluster candidate whose campaign slogan effectively was “I’m entitled to it,” right?

So if you think the Democrats are that hopeless, what difference does Franken’s seat make? All the Democrats are going to be voted out of office in November, right?

252
austin_blue  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:15:37pm

re: #165 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Robot repair technicians.

253
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:16:09pm

re: #251 Big Beautiful Door

So if you think the Democrats are that hopeless, what difference does Franken’s seat make? All the Democrats are going to be voted out of office in November, right?

That’s a strawman.

254
KGxvi  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:16:28pm

re: #231 Targetpractice

You do remember that the DNC managed to lose the “Kennedy seat” in a deep blue state by running a lackluster candidate whose campaign slogan effectively was “I’m entitled to it,” right?

The bright side for the Democrats is that the special election will be held concurrently with next year’s mid-term elections. It won’t be a special election in the sense it’s the only thing going.

And speaking of special elections, was listening to Friday’s With Friends Like These pod, Cox had Rick Wilson on again, he mentioned that polling on Alabama is pretty much impossible because nobody knows how to account for the Shy Jones Voter or the Shy Moore Voter. He basically said any result between Jones +5 and Moore +9 would not be surprising.

255
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:17:54pm

re: #252 austin_blue

Robot repair technicians.

I see great growth in the Unabomber sector, unless we identify work as a rare good to be distributed fairly.

256
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:19:05pm

re: #254 KGxvi

The bright side for the Democrats is that the special election will be held concurrently with next year’s mid-term elections. It won’t be a special election in the sense it’s the only thing going.

And speaking of special elections, was listening to Friday’s With Friends Like These pod, Cox had Rick Wilson on again, he mentioned that polling on Alabama is pretty much impossible because nobody knows how to account for the Shy Jones Voter or the Shy Moore Voter. He basically said any result between Jones +5 and Moore +9 would not be surprising.

And yet, the fact remains that in a wide-open field with (at present) no popular favorite means the seat is very winnable by the GOP. The counterargument to “The governor is a Democrat” is “The legislature has a Republican majority.”

257
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:19:45pm

re: #238 ObserverArt

So keeping it in the court/legal realm, you agree as a lawyer that photo was thin proof of touching/groping and could be sold as nothing more than a stupid prank.

That was what I was hoping when I made the bad crack about you being a lawyer. I was hoping you weren’t saying you could build a case around that image. I’d be calling in some of the others on the plane like the photographer and the people in the immediate area. And of course question Leeann about timing and other images after the incident, etc.

And that is what is sad about the political end of it. The whole thing started on the image and the kiss and there is serious contention of the actual details of both.

And yet, it was more than enough to have many call for his resignation.

The problem with that defense is that in questioning Franken the other side can throw Franken’s own words back at him about how degrading the photo was. Then we’d move on to the other seven women who have accused him, assuming more didn’t come forward. It would be a complete shitshow, which is why Franken decided to resign.

258
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:20:30pm

re: #254 KGxvi

The bright side for the Democrats is that the special election will be held concurrently with next year’s mid-term elections. It won’t be a special election in the sense it’s the only thing going.

And speaking of special elections, was listening to Friday’s With Friends Like These pod, Cox had Rick Wilson on again, he mentioned that polling on Alabama is pretty much impossible because nobody knows how to account for the Shy Jones Voter or the Shy Moore Voter. He basically said any result between Jones +5 and Moore +9 would not be surprising.

Yup. Betting range: Jones +2, —- Moore +10. If we land in there, it’s a kind of victory.

259
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:22:39pm

re: #257 Big Beautiful Door

The problem with that defense is that in questioning Franken the other side can throw Franken’s own words back at him about how degrading the photo was. Then we’d move on to the other seven women who have accused him, assuming more didn’t come forward. It would be a complete shitshow, which is why Franken decided to resign.

And if one or more of those women refused to testify?

260
KGxvi  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:24:02pm

re: #256 Targetpractice

And yet, the fact remains that in a wide-open field with (at present) no popular favorite means the seat is very winnable by the GOP. The counterargument to “The governor is a Democrat” is “The legislature has a Republican majority.”

I’m assuming the governor doesn’t need the legislature to approve an interim appointment, and assuming that person wants to run next year, they’ll have the advantages of incumbency. I’m also guessing that the legislature has a Republican majority because the Democrats fucked up in the late aughts and got gerrymandered the fuck out of a possible majority.

I’m not saying they can’t fuck it up, it’s the Democratic Party, after all, but I don’t think doom and gloom is the right mindset to have either. Cautious optimism seems the better approach.

261
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:25:29pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

That’s a strawman.

Well you seem very fearful of the Democrats ability to make our case to the voters. If you don’t think a Democrat can win in Minnesota in a midterm with Trump as President, you can’t think the Democrats have much of a chance anywhere.

262
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:28:15pm

re: #236 Targetpractice

And let’s not forget that we’re in exactly the position that I warned about last week and was scoffed at, running a wide-open field in 2018 for Franken’s seat when I was assured that we’d instead have a female incumbent with a year’s worth of achievements to run upon. If I were a GOP strategist, I’d consider it manna from heaven: A contested seat in a purple state up for grabs 2 years early, where there is a number of strong Republican contenders and no Dem incumbent but instead a fill-in placed due solely to her gender and the former incumbent forced from office in disgrace in a political controversial fashion.

Appointing the Lt. Gov then allowing that seat to go to a Republican, and then having her not run for election is the stupidest thing the Gov. could do. It makes no sense whatever.

263
whitebeach  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:30:07pm

re: #245 wrenchwench

As requested, only took four years.

[Embedded content]

It’s more like pictures of boxes that have bunnies in them, but close enough for government work.

As I recall, the best line that didn’t make it into the article (linked at my original comment, and still worth reading in full) was: Pilot, ‘Did you say “rabbits”? Do you know it costs $5,000.00 just to start one of these things [helicopters]?’ Firefighter: ‘I’m sorry, we have our orders.’ Pilot, ‘Don’t apologize, it’s the first worthwhile mission I’ve flown!’

I remember, during Katrina, watching a newscast of a Coast Guard helicopter rescue of a rooftop victim.

Guardsman on the rooftop with the basket: “Lady says she won’t come without her dog.”

Pilot: “No dogs.”

Roofman: “Says she won’t come without him.”

(pause)

Pilot (with a “what can you do?” tone): “How big a dog?”

Lady and dog both rescued. I never think of Katrina, to this day, without hoping that New Orleans erects a statue to the Coast Guard, the only federal or state agency that simply did its job, and in fact did it heroically, during this horrendous disaster.

264
Ace-o-aces  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:30:29pm
265
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:32:47pm

re: #261 Big Beautiful Door

Well you seem very fearful of the Democrats ability to make our case to the voters. If you don’t think a Democrat can win in Minnesota in a midterm with Trump as President, you can’t think the Democrats have much of a chance anywhere.

I’m thinking all politics are local and if the GOP should run someone like Tim Pawlenty, they stand a good chance of winning the seat. Especially when it looks at the moment like they’re not going to face serious opposition for it.

266
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:33:29pm

If Roy Moore wins by 10 or more tomorrow I will be fucking appalled.

267
wheat-dogg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:33:56pm

re: #264 Ace-o-aces

Moore will be hanged with a blockchain?

268
Stanley Sea  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:34:14pm

Poor Nikki

269
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:35:19pm

re: #266 Eclectic Cyborg

If Roy Moore wins by 10 or more tomorrow I will be fucking appalled.

I’m assuming he’ll win, but if he wins by 10 tomorrow, I think we can conclude that the #MeToo movement is not the political winner some are making it out to be. That there are enough women voters willing to vote for a sexual predator to neutralize any suggested “advantage.”

270
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:35:47pm

re: #263 whitebeach

I remember, during Katrina, watching a Coast Guard helicopter rescue or a rooftop victim.

Guardsman on the rooftop with the basket: “Lady says she won’t come without her dog.”

Pilot: “No dogs.”

Roofman: “Says she won’t come without him.”

(pause)

Pilot (with a “what can you do?”) tone: “How big a dog?”

Lady and dog both rescued. I never think of Katrina, to this day, without hoping that New Orleans erects a statue to the Coast Guard, the only federal or state agency that simply did its job, and in fact did it heroically, during this horrendous disaster.

In the article, they referred to ‘a lesson learned from Katrina’, and never ask someone to leave without their pets.

In a lesson learned from Hurricane Katrina, evacuees were never asked to leave their pets behind. As a result, besides rescuing 1,232 people — almost all of them by helicopter — the team brought out parrots, lizards, chickens, rabbits, a ferret, a turtle, dogs, cats, a pot-bellied pig, a bowl of fish, a snail named Gary, and a tarantula named Rosie.

My mom had a tarantula named Rosie Knees. Because she (the spider) had eight of them.

271
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:36:10pm

re: #266 Eclectic Cyborg

If Roy Moore wins by 10 or more tomorrow I will be fucking appalled.

We could win, or Moore can go +30. Nobody knows what the fuck my neighbors might do.

OTOH, I feel better right now than I did Florida in November.

272
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:36:42pm

re: #267 wheat-dogg

Moore will be hanged with a blockchain?

From a decision tree.

273
whitebeach  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:37:37pm

re: #242 FormerDirtDart

Frankly, that’s who I thought it would be

[Embedded content]

Shit, and I was sure it was going to be Auguste Escoffier.

274
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:38:21pm

re: #272 Decatur Deb

From a decision tree.

Ah, he will be forked.

275
wrenchwench  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:39:00pm

re: #273 whitebeach

Shit, and I was sure it was going to be Auguste Escoffier.

They’ll get him after they get Walter Cronkite.

276
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:39:36pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Poor Nikki

[Embedded content]

She spoke the truth, but I have no sympathy for her.

277
wheat-dogg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:42:54pm

re: #276 Ace Rothstein

She spoke the truth, but I have no sympathy for her.

If she keeps contradicting The Donald, she’s going to be out in short order.

278
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:44:16pm

re: #259 Targetpractice

And if one or more of those women refused to testify?

There are these things called subpoenas to deal with reluctant witnesses.

279
BlueSpotinAL  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:45:19pm

Decatur Deb and I are from very different parts of Talibama. Almost all of my acquaintances are supporting Jones. The real key is the African American community, and even Hispanic (who are almost invisible politically). That the race is this close is because Roy Moore is the worst candidate possible. Ryan or McConnell would win 101 to -1.

280
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:45:46pm

Anybody read EJ Dionne’s column today?

281
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:46:06pm

re: #278 Big Beautiful Door

There are these things called subpoenas to deal with reluctant witnesses.

And how would you subpoena “anonymous” witnesses who gave their accounts only to newspapers/online publications?

282
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:46:46pm

re: #279 BlueSpotinAL

Decatur Deb and I are from very different parts of Talibama. Almost all of my acquaintances are supporting Jones. The real key is the African American community, and even Hispanic (who are almost invisible politically). That the race is this close is because Roy Moore is the worst candidate possible. Ryan or McConnell would win 101 to -1.

Yup. Our county went for Trump 85-15.

283
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:47:17pm

re: #265 Targetpractice

I’m thinking all politics are local and if the GOP should run someone like Tim Pawlenty, they stand a good chance of winning the seat. Especially when it looks at the moment like they’re not going to face serious opposition for it.

There isn’t a single capable Democratic politician in Minnesota who wants to be a US Senator?

284
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:47:47pm

re: #279 BlueSpotinAL

Decatur Deb and I are from very different parts of Talibama. Almost all of my acquaintances are supporting Jones. The real key is the African American community, and even Hispanic (who are almost invisible politically). That the race is this close is because Roy Moore is the worst candidate possible. Ryan or McConnell would win 101 to -1.

And that is how I expect a Moore loss to be spun, as a lot of Republicans “reluctantly” going along with his candidacy when they “really” wanted to run Strange instead.

285
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:48:07pm

re: #283 Big Beautiful Door

There isn’t a single capable Democratic politician in Minnesota who wants to be a US Senator?

Can you name one?

286
scottslemmons  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:48:08pm

re: #239 scottslemmons

About to talk to my insurance guy about next year’s health insurance. Initial indications are that it’s going to be a $500/month bloodbath. Probably worse than that. Still, what can you do. :/

Final damage: $560/month. At least I get doctor and prescription copays and a local doctor and hospital.

re: #243 Ace Rothstein

Thanks, Trump.

In this case, the problem is me being unable to find a job. When you have zero income, they don’t give you the discounts that help lower the costs.

287
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:48:12pm

re: #283 Big Beautiful Door

There isn’t a single capable Democratic politician in Minnesota who wants to be a US Senator?

I imagine too many of them remember their senior prom.

288
LastYearsMan  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:48:52pm

I liked Franken, but I think the long game required him gone. Democrats shouldn’t be playing defense. Clearing house sends a strong message this fight is about more than the usual tribalism.

289
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:49:36pm
290
Stanley Sea  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:49:43pm

re: #280 Skip Intro

Anybody read EJ Dionne’s column today?

I’m reading Cat Person

Post Dionne’s?

291
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:50:28pm

re: #281 Targetpractice

And how would you subpoena “anonymous” witnesses who gave their accounts only to newspapers/online publications?

Subpoena the reporters.

292
ipsos  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:51:48pm

You want long game? It occurs to me that the real “long game” is the way the Republicans have been pushing quietly for years now to take away the 17th Amendment popular election of senators.

Because while that may not have specifically anticipated Moore vs. Jones, it would have been a guarantee that the AL-Sen seat would have stayed GOP in a situation like this one. (And probably with Big Luther instead of Moore, thus reducing the embarrassment to the national party.)

Fortunately, there doesn’t seem to be enough critical mass behind the repeal-the-17th movement - but it’s a very real thing that’s out there.

293
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:51:54pm

re: #288 LastYearsMan

I liked Franken, but I think the long game required him gone. Democrats shouldn’t be playing defense. Clearing house sends a strong message this fight is about more than the usual tribalism.

That’s rather the problem here, the obviousness of the movement for his resignation being about getting him off the radar than about the “seriousness” of the allegations against him. Mostly because the allegations either rely upon believing “anonymous” victims or blowing up a hand on the waist as “sexual assault.”

294
BeachDem  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:52:04pm

re: #276 Ace Rothstein

She spoke the truth, but I have no sympathy for her.

Nikki says nothing that isn’t either totally idiotic or totally calculated. I have no sympathy for her either—she’s in way over her head at the UN and I think this comment was to take the heat off her ridiculous “utterly destroy” North Korean threats. And, of course, it worked.

295
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:52:22pm

re: #288 LastYearsMan

I liked Franken, but I think the long game required him gone. Democrats shouldn’t be playing defense. Clearing house sends a strong message this fight is about more than the usual tribalism.

He was doomed on accusation. We might want to review that.

296
TDG2112  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:52:25pm

538 has a good explanation of how the differences come about. Mostly the ones that have Moore winning are Robo Calls and miss Cell phone users, the ones that have Jones up call Cell Phone customers and are live people asking the questions. Its more complicated than that, but those are the two big differences.

fivethirtyeight.com

297
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:52:27pm

re: #285 Targetpractice

Can you name one?

No, I’m in Kentucky. Its just hard to believe that the Minnesota Democrats have absolutely no political talent in the pipeline.

298
Skip Intro  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:52:56pm

re: #290 Stanley Sea

E.J. Dionne: Our institutional crisis is upon us

The more Mueller imperils Trump, the more McCarthyite the GOP becomes.

Washington • Our democratic republic is in far more danger than it was even a few weeks ago.

Until this point, there was an underlying faith in much of the political world that if Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian collusion in the election of Donald Trump turned up damning material about the president, Republicans in Congress would feel obligated by their commitment to the country’s well-being to take him on.

We would often hear recollections of how Republicans during Watergate — Sen. Barry Goldwater would inevitably come up — decided that the smoking guns were too smoky and that Richard Nixon had to go. They made clear to him that he no longer had the support of his party.

Surely, said the optimists, we have not drifted so far from decency that this sort of patriotism is beyond us.

Well, it sure seems to be. It’s not surprising that Trump and those on his payroll want to protect him at all costs. But we learned last week that Republicans are deepening their complicity in derailing Mueller’s investigation and burying the facts. The more Mueller imperils Trump, the more McCarthyite the GOP becomes.

The apotheosis of Republican congressional collusion with Trump’s efforts to hang on at all costs came at a hearing of the House Judiciary Committee. One Republican after another attacked Mueller and the Federal Bureau of Investigation as if the latter should be placed on a new compendium of subversive organizations.

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

299
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:53:24pm

re: #291 Big Beautiful Door

Subpoena the reporters.

Inspector Javert always gets his man, eh?

300
wheat-dogg  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:53:42pm

re: #291 Big Beautiful Door

Subpoena the reporters.

Reporters would protect their sources, and many jurisdictions have shield laws protecting that right. So, that’s a dead end from the get-go.

301
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:54:35pm

re: #297 Big Beautiful Door

No, I’m in Kentucky. Its just hard to believe that the Minnesota Democrats have absolutely no political talent in the pipeline.

It was hard to believe there were no capable Democrats in Massachusetts as well. And there were, it’s just they picked the most entitled one to run.

302
Decatur Deb  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:54:40pm

re: #292 ipsos

You want long game? It occurs to me that the real “long game” is the way the Republicans have been pushing quietly for years now to take away the 17th Amendment popular election of senators.

Because while that may not have specifically anticipated Moore vs. Jones, it would have been a guarantee that the AL-Sen seat would have stayed GOP in a situation like this one. (And probably with Big Luther instead of Moore, thus reducing the embarrassment to the national party.)

Fortunately, there doesn’t seem to be enough critical mass behind the repeal-the-17th movement - but it’s a very real thing that’s out there.

That’s often folded into the similar “Article V Convention” wet dream.

303
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:55:53pm

re: #289 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

I bet this guy would give up everything to just tell his daughter he loves her just as she is. Too late for him now.

304
plansbandc  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:57:14pm

re: #289 Ace Rothstein

This is heartbreaking.

305
LastYearsMan  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:57:25pm

re: #295 Decatur Deb

He weathered the first accusation. But the repeated accusations doomed him. And — imho most importantly — his female colleagues said they weren’t standing for it.

I’m no moral absolutist in politics. I’m comfortable with compromise and detest the Bernie nuts. But I think this was a smart strategic move for 2018 and beyond.

306
BeachDem  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:57:57pm

And speaking of trolling, coming up at 8 EST on TCM—Being There.

307
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 4:57:57pm

re: #289 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

Jesus, I’m in tears.

308
Ace Rothstein  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:00:04pm

re: #303 Big Beautiful Door

I bet this guy would give up everything to just tell his daughter he loves her just as she is. Too late for him now.

It’s always different when it affects your life. It’s not a stupid fucking bumper sticker anymore.

309
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:01:02pm

re: #305 LastYearsMan

He weathered the first accusation. But the repeated accusations doomed him. And — imho most importantly — his female colleagues said they weren’t standing for it.

I’m no moral absolutist in politics. I’m comfortable with compromise and detest the Bernie nuts. But I think this was a snart strategic move for 2018 and beyond.

His female colleagues didn’t say anything until one of the two presently considered a candidate for the 2020 nomination stepped up to the podium and declared that the man who was seen as a potential rival for that nomination needed to go. I’m sure there was absolutely no political calculation in her doing so.

/////

310
MsJ  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:01:23pm

re: #222 I cannot.

You can’t go to most stores and buy stuff with it, even online stores. But you can trade it among people who are willing to accept them, many of whom value the anonymity and untraceability of BTC.

i.e. SovCits who don’t think they are required to pay taxes because of a gold fringe on flags or something.
A guy that will give you a discount on something if you pay in cash or BTC…because taxes.
A guy that will…take care of a problem for you, all you have to do is give them a picture of the problem and where they live.

BUT…you also have other cases…
Sex work, if one chooses to do that, is a job…it shouldn’t be criminalized as it is . And BTC allows anonymous transfers of value.
Someone hiding from an abuser can have an untraceable, and easily accessible source of money.

I saw a Bitcoin ATM three other day. I think it was in Dallas.

311
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:01:58pm

re: #308 Ace Rothstein

It’s always different when it affects your life. It’s not a stupid fucking bumper sticker anymore.

But too many people get buried in hate and resentment even after it’s too late. This is a good man. A good father. He’s doing what he can.

312
whitebeach  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:03:42pm

re: #288 LastYearsMan

I liked Franken, but I think the long game required him gone. Democrats shouldn’t be playing defense. Clearing house sends a strong message this fight is about more than the usual tribalism.

I appreciate your obvious decency, but I see the “strong message” as being “we’re bringing a rubber knife to a gunfight.” Franken should have faced off against and fought not the women who accused him (IMHO of relatively minor transgressions) but the sickening bastards like Trump and the truly vile people behind him (the better to kiss his lardy ass).

313
Stanley Sea  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:05:09pm

re: #298 Skip Intro

Gracias.

314
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:07:26pm

re: #301 Targetpractice

It was hard to believe there were no capable Democrats in Massachusetts as well. And there were, it’s just they picked the most entitled one to run.

So you are going to assume that the Democrats will select the wrong candidate in Mn and a Republican will win. You could make that assumption anywhere. If you instead assume the Democrats are likely to nominate an average candidate, the political atmosphere next year will be very favorable for Democrats in blue and purple states. Is there something you know about the Minnesota Democratic party that leads you to believe they are likely to nominate a bad candidate?

315
majii  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:08:01pm

re: #289 Ace Rothstein

“”I was anti-gay myself. I said bad things to my daughter, which I regret.”“

This guy is an idiot and is partly responsible for his daughter taking her own life. I can imagine that while he was demeaning her not once did it enter his mind how damaging his words were to her, or that those same words would cause her to commit suicide. She’s forever gone now, and all he has are regrets. I’d rather have living a gay/lesbian kid than a dead one. I remember when I was raising my daughter and she was a little kid, I always told her that if she identified as lesbian when she was older, I’d still love her and nothing would ever make me stop loving her.

316
BeachDem  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:08:05pm

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

317
Eclectic Cyborg  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:09:06pm

Regardless of what these women say Trump is protected. He won’t quit and the people with the power to fire him won’t act.

318
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:10:52pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

A “Nuremberg Rally.”

319
Stanley Sea  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:11:16pm

re: #304 plansbandc

This is heartbreaking.

Yes, it is.

320
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:12:39pm

re: #314 Big Beautiful Door

So you are going to assume that the Democrats will select the wrong candidate in Mn and a Republican will win. You could make that assumption anywhere. If you instead assume the Democrats are likely to nominate an average candidate, the political atmosphere next year will be very favorable for Democrats in blue and purple states. Is there something you know about the Minnesota Democratic party that leads you to believe they are likely to nominate a bad candidate?

My assumption is that the seat is not as safely in our hands as you would wish to believe in order to keep reassuring yourself that forcing Franken’s resignation was politically advantageous. This is a purple state where the state legislature is Republican-dominated and the state GOP have strong contenders for any statewide seats. Franken barely won that seat to begin with under more favorable conditions. And that the DNC has lost “safe” seats in the past by running lackluster candidates.

321
austin_blue  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:12:42pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

A Cacophony Of Fuckwits.

322
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:14:01pm

re: #314 Big Beautiful Door

So you are going to assume that the Democrats will select the wrong candidate in Mn and a Republican will win. You could make that assumption anywhere. If you instead assume the Democrats are likely to nominate an average candidate, the political atmosphere next year will be very favorable for Democrats in blue and purple states. Is there something you know about the Minnesota Democratic party that leads you to believe they are likely to nominate a bad candidate?

We are in unchartered waters here. If Jones actually wins, we will learn that there is a bottom to depravity even in the reddest of states and that Democrats can win against a terrible opponent. But if Moore wins, we will have learned that Republicans are willing to tolerate any evil; if Trump remains as a blight on the White House instead of being excised as he should be, that we may be doomed as a nation. I really fear that a Moore victory will energize Trump to fire Mueller and dare the party to stand up to him.

323
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:14:55pm

re: #321 austin_blue

A Cacophony Of Fuckwits.

A murder of murderers.

324
wheat-dogg  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:15:15pm

I’ve been busy with meat-world stuff, so can you all fill me on this Keaton Jones brouhaha? I’ve been seeing his video retweeted for days now, and today I read that his mom’s a white supremacist or a neo-Confederate and little Keaton got “bullied” for saying racist stuff at school to a KOC (kid of color). That about right?

Oh, and now there’s all kind of celebs coming to support Keaton and the family now has a GoFundMe campaign going. WTF?

325
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:17:25pm

re: #291 Big Beautiful Door

Subpoena the reporters.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.

Good luck with that.

326
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:17:35pm

re: #324 wheat-dogg

I’ve been busy with meat-world stuff, so can you all fill me on this Keaton Jones brouhaha? I’ve been seeing his video retweeted for days now, and today I read that his mom’s a white supremacist or a neo-Confederate and little Keaton got “bullied” for saying racist stuff at school to a KOC (kid of color). That about right?

Oh, and now there’s all kind of celebs coming to support Keaton and the family now has a GoFundMe campaign going. WTF?

Not sure. I hear the kid is autistic but that’s not an excuse for saying racist stuff. It should be a teaching moment.

327
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:18:53pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

Q circle of jerks.

328
LastYearsMan  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:19:31pm

Crooked Media had a good look at potential Dem strategies going forward and why getting rid of Franken was important: crooked.com

329
jaunte  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:21:00pm
330
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:23:07pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

a booger of blowhards

331
whitebeach  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:24:32pm

re: #315 majii

“”I was anti-gay myself. I said bad things to my daughter, which I regret.”“

This guy is an idiot and is partly responsible for his daughter taking her own life. I can imagine that while he was demeaning her not once did it enter his mind how damaging his words were to her, or that those same words would cause her to commit suicide. She’s forever gone now, and all he has are regrets. I’d rather have living a gay/lesbian kid than a dead one. I remember when I was raising my daughter and she was a little kid, I always told her that if she identified as lesbian when she was older, I’d still love her and nothing would ever make me stop loving her.

Ah, majii, the man was worse than an idiot, he was wrong, horribly wrong, fatally wrong, in a matter of his own child. But it’s strange: Even though I would have cursed him while his daughter lived, it’s hard to do now that she’s gone. Because he’s already in hell, and no condemnation by me will change that by even an inch.

332
whitebeach  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:25:40pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

It’s already been done: “A Confederacy of Dunces.”

333
Barefoot Grin  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:26:33pm

re: #332 whitebeach

It’s already been done: “A Confederacy of Dunces.”

That’s a Christmas present for my 16yo.

334
Targetpractice  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:27:30pm

re: #328 LastYearsMan

Crooked Media had a good look at potential Dem strategies going forward and why getting rid of Franken was important: crooked.com

Getting Franken is only important if the DNC is willing to carry through and launch a very vocal campaign to have Trump resign and Moore expelled, as the article points out. So far, I don’t see any of that coming from the DNC. And that is what will ultimately turn his resignation into a farce.

335
plansbandc  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:27:39pm

re: #333 Barefoot Grin

Thinking it may be time to read it again.

336
HappyWarrior  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:34:06pm

re: #329 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Hey Louie, there’s also a thing called bearing false witness. You have zero evidence that these women were bought off at all.

337
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:39:54pm

Lost in all this argument is my reason for opposing forcing him out: it is unjust to Franken, who deserves a hearing. Also, as I keep saying, due process. We even give it to rapists and terrorists.

338
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:43:45pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Poor Nikki

[Embedded content]

She knows what she got herself involved with when she took the job.

Oh wait, maybe she wants out of that job because she does know who she is involved with.

Nikki: “Fire me, Fire me you pig!”

339
BeachDem  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:45:45pm

re: #338 ObserverArt

She knows what she got herself involved with when she took the job.

Oh wait, maybe she wants out of that job because she does know who she is involved with.

Nikki: “Fire me, Fire me you pig!”

She ain’t that smart.

340
JordanRules  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:45:58pm

re: #337 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I’ve seen this point made a bunch of times. I don’t think that’s been lost at all. This debate is going round and round in circles here so the points being made tend to come up repeatedly.

341
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:54:45pm

re: #289 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

Damn. A simple man that is hurting.

He is the type of person the Republicans in Alabama need to listen to for a real reason why they shouldn’t vote for Moore.

Sadly he is going to his grave knowing how his daughter was treated and he bought into some of that treatment, so he feels part of the reason. That’s some real pain.

342
CleverToad  Dec 11, 2017 • 5:58:47pm

re: #328 LastYearsMan

Crooked Media had a good look at potential Dem strategies going forward and why getting rid of Franken was important: crooked.com

Read it. Don’t agree that it shows why “getting rid of Franken was important” and in particular why “getting rid of Franken before the Ethics Committee review was important.” They’re proposing strengthening the rules and setting standards for the process in future cases where a Congress member is accused. That would seem to imply that following said process is the principled response in these cases.

343
ObserverArt  Dec 11, 2017 • 6:02:41pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

This is the Republican party of 2017/18.

Creeps are us.

344
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 11, 2017 • 7:02:14pm

re: #316 BeachDem

What’s the proper term for a gathering of creeps such as this?

[Embedded content]

A spooge of pervs.


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