Trump Blows It Again: Schumer Withdraws Offer on Trump’s Wall

Politics • Views: 34,204

After the Trump-thing reneged on the deal he made with Chuck Schumer to grant concessions on the DACA program in exchange for increased funding for his inane “border wall” fantasy, today we learn that Schumer has yanked his offer off the table.

The Senate minority leader, through an aide, informed the White House on Monday that he was retracting the offer he made last week to give Trump well north of the $1.6 billion in wall funding Trump had asked for this year, according to two Democrats. And now they say Trump will simply not get a better deal than that on his signature campaign promise.

Schumer “took it off,” said Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, the No. 2 Senate Democrat. “He called the White House yesterday and said it’s over.”

And the “world’s greatest deal maker” blows another deal with his erratic, reckless, incompetent behavior.

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650 comments
1
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:06:07pm

and the whining goes even further:

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2
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:06:19pm

“The Greatest Deal Maker In The History of Humanity” couldn’t deal his way out of a wet paper bag.

He actually sucks at doing deals.

He also sucked at pretending to be a Deal Maker on TV.

3
Dr. Matt  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:06:32pm
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4
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:09:02pm
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“…What to think about all this? Think that Democrats are fighting for key policy priorities with virtually no power. That’s not easy. It won’t be accomplished in a day. That’s an honorable position not a shameful one.”

5
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:11:09pm

The Trump Administration is doing virtually nothing to address the opioid epidemic which is killing nearly 70k people annually.

6
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:11:38pm

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

7
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:11:45pm

re: #4 jaunte

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Totally!
The only losers in all of this are Mitch and the rest of the GOP: they didn’t gain a smidgen of ground in this debacle.

8
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:12:24pm

re: #5 Big Beautiful Door

The Trump Administration is doing virtually nothing to address the opioid epidemic which is killing nearly 70k people annually.

Well, they are. They’re trying to restrict voting by minorities at a faster rate than their constituents are dying.

Oh, wait, that’s not what you meant.

9
Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:14:02pm

re: #4 jaunte

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The almighty narrative, may it never be discredited, regardless of fact.

10
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:14:14pm

re: #7 Backwoods_Sleuth

Totally!
The only losers in all of this are Mitch and the rest of the GOP: they didn’t gain a smidgen of ground in this debacle.

Once again they’re evaluating a 3d chess match with tictactoe logic
Or something

11
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:14:25pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

That’s a partial payment for the legal costs of the eminent domain fight.

12
Barefoot Grin  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:15:59pm

Tom Cotton, asshole. But I repeat myself:

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13
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:17:55pm

re: #12 Barefoot Grin

Tom Cotton, asshole. But I repeat myself:

[Embedded content]

He really is. That’s just some vile and petty shit right there.

14
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:19:57pm
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15
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:20:17pm

it has been decreed that there will be baked ziti for dinner

and so there shall be

16
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:20:53pm

re: #14 jaunte

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Drain the swamp eh?

17
Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:20:54pm

re: #14 jaunte

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Barely a year, and the damage to our institutions is already untold.

18
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:21:10pm

“…Mulvaney has received $57,100 in campaign contributions from the payday lending industry over the course of his political career, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics. As head of the CFPB, Mulvaney is now in position to regulate the payday lending industry, but the former member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus told USA Today in December those campaign contributions did not create any conflicts of interest.
ibtimes.com

19
SteveMcGriftFlynnComey... ...corruptemoligate RN  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:21:21pm

re: #15 dangerman

Over here all signs point to Hamburger Helper.

20
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:21:42pm

“The payday lending industry’s trade group, the Community Financial Services Association of America, will hold its 2018 annual conference and expo at the Trump National Doral resort in Miami.”

21
SteveMcGriftFlynnComey... ...corruptemoligate RN  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:22:27pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

I think they bottled the swamp.

22
wrenchwench  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:22:39pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

No wall. Running feet, maybe.

23
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:23:18pm

re: #19 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

Over here all signs point to Hamburger Helper.

deconstructed, they’re similar enough

24
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:23:49pm

re: #21 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

I think they bottled the swamp.

“raw water” indeed

25
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:23:54pm

Meanwhile, in the 21st century:

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26
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:24:31pm

re: #14 jaunte

[Embedded content]

What an amazing coincidence.///

27
BlueSpotinAL  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:24:35pm

Another name for DREAMers: people.

28
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:25:07pm

re: #27 BlueSpotinAL

Another name for DREAMers: people.

Yep.

29
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:25:34pm

re: #20 jaunte

“The payday lending industry’s trade group, the Community Financial Services Association of America, will hold its 2018 annual conference and expo at the Trump National Doral resort in Miami.”

Another amazing coincidence.

30
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:27:24pm
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31
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:27:33pm
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32
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:28:12pm
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33
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:28:38pm

More corruption:

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34
Unshaken Defiance  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:32:29pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

Two running feet. /

35
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:33:52pm
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36
Mike Lamb  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:41:22pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

It might build the temp roads needed to get to the remote areas where the wall would be going up.

37
Kragar  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:41:33pm
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38
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:42:07pm

Five years ago today: The ammunition hoarding frenzy peaks as Obama begins his second term.

If a picture is worth 1000 words, these pictures could be worth 1000 lives (page by Eclectic Cyborg)

I’m still waiting for ACORN/Gay/Muslim/BLM militia to come out and get my guns.

39
Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:42:33pm
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40
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:42:58pm

re: #37 Kragar

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Guess which one is following the teachings of Christ.

41
Dr. Matt  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:44:04pm

I just saw that “Sheriff” Clarke lost his twitter verification.

My response —> LOL

42
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:44:09pm

re: #37 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Heard about that. Agh.

43
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:44:22pm

re: #41 Dr. Matt

I just saw that “Sheriff” Clarke lost his twitter verification.

My response —> [large]LOL[.large]

Haha.

44
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:46:44pm
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45
Dr. Matt  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:47:37pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Haha.

You need more “haha”

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46
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:49:14pm
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47
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:51:21pm

something for klys:

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48
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:52:28pm
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49
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:56:05pm

re: #15 dangerman

it has been decreed that there will be baked ziti for dinner

and so there shall be

Here it’s going to be ribeye, whole roasted cauliflower with a Gorgonzola dipping sauce for both.

50
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 12:57:06pm

re: #48 jaunte

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Seriously he’s got some nerve to say this shit.

51
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:01:20pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

Seriously he’s got some nerve to say this shit.

Republicans lie without shame. Usually, if they aren’t lying, they aren’t talking.

52
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:01:34pm

re: #47 Backwoods_Sleuth

I sat there for 8 hours to see it erupt from that vantage point and it was absolutely worth it.

53
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:03:38pm

re: #48 jaunte

This regrettable shutdown reminded all of us that, in United States #Senate, brinksmanship and hostage-taking simply do not work.

mitch, mitch, mitch

are you that much of a bonehead or just a craven liar?

your name will be tied to gorsuch forever as a reminder of the degree to which you steered the Republicans to debase themselves and their country to maintain control of the Supreme Court.

54
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:03:57pm
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55
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:03:59pm

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

56
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:04:00pm

re: #30 The Vicious Babushka

RE: Randy Rainbow.

FABULOUS!

57
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:05:52pm

re: #53 dangerman

mitch, mitch, mitch

are you that much of a bonehead or just a craven liar?

Yes.

58
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:05:59pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Did he consult with Gingrich before making that excuse?

59
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:06:19pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

“I was so stressed about maybe failing to take healthcare away from poor people I tried to have an affair.”

60
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:06:27pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

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“Thanks, Obama.”

61
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:07:21pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

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Reminds me if when Newt was cheating on his wife because he loved America so much.

62
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:07:22pm

More of that famous conservative personal responsibility we hear so much about. I’d have much more respect if the guy just admitted he acted like a dickhead because of lust.

63
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:07:23pm

re: #59 jaunte

“I was so stressed about maybe failing to take healthcare away from poor people I tried to have an affair.”

“I was so stressed out from failing to fuck poor people that failing to fuck her was just too much to bear!”

64
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:07:41pm

re: #61 Big Beautiful Door

Reminds me if when Newt was cheating on his wife because he loved America so much.

Hence my 58.

65
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:07:50pm

re: #45 Dr. Matt

You need more “haha”

[Embedded content]

I get that all the time. Only once has someone been suspended or thrown off Twitter. Lip service. Little more.

66
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:09:18pm
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67
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:09:31pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

Hence my 58.

Yep, you beat me to it!

68
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:09:43pm
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Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:10:03pm

re: #37 Kragar

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Bataan Death March

As the emaciated men proceeded up the highway in the blistering heat, the Japanese guards summarily shot or bayoneted any man who fell, attempted to escape or stopped to quench his thirst at a roadside spigot or puddle. The men were given little water or food during the march, which took about five days for each group to complete.

The guards also chased off, bayoneted or shot any Filipino civilian who tried to give water or bits of food to the passing lines of prisoners.

70
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:10:24pm

re: #65 MsJ

I get that all the time. Only once has someone been suspended or thrown off Twitter. Lip service. Little more.

When I saw the words ‘Lip service’, I thought we were still talking about Noot and Drusilla, or whatever the fuck her name is - that Bird of Prey who married him most recently?

71
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:10:47pm
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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:10:51pm

re: #66 FormerDirtDart

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Never fear; Trump is going to negotiate great individual trade deals that will be much, much better than TPP./////

73
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:11:13pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:11:28pm

re: #66 FormerDirtDart

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America - the Dispensable Country.

75
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:12:30pm

re: #70 Blind Frog Belly White

When I saw the words ‘Lip service’, I thought we were still talking about Noot and Drusilla, or whatever the fuck her name is - that Bird of Prey who married him most recently?

Calpurnia?

Callipygia?

Calypso?

Caligula?

76
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:13:18pm

re: #71 FormerDirtDart

This makes me smile today.

77
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:13:19pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Bataan Death March

Didn’t the orange shit goblin make some comparison about an ordeal he had to the Bataan Death March, or was that some other asshole repub?

78
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:13:53pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Bataan Death March

If there was a real judgment day, these border gestapo would be pretty shocked when they are herded to the left with the goats.

79
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:14:33pm

re: #67 Big Beautiful Door

Yep, you beat me to it!

Great minds and all that jazz.

80
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:15:13pm

Ugh. Just. Ugh.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:15:51pm

re: #73 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Yawn.This guy’s a Jones hack.

82
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:15:58pm

re: #73 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do most people not know that the head of NSA is military?

83
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:16:01pm

re: #80 MsJ

Ugh. Just. Ugh.

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None of those three should be the nominee.

84
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:16:25pm

And, most people working there are not.

85
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:16:35pm

re: #80 MsJ

Ugh. Just. Ugh.

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It’s the name recon. Of those three, Biden is the best pick but I’d prefer someone else.

86
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:16:51pm

re: #82 Colère Tueur de Lapin

Do most people not know that the head of NSA is military?

Magic 8 ball says yes.

87
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:17:11pm

re: #83 Big Beautiful Door

None of those three should be the nominee.

I agree and I’m a big fan of Biden’s.

88
Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:17:38pm

re: #80 MsJ

Ugh. Just. Ugh.

[Embedded content]

Agree. One the one hand, UGH! indeed….

OTOH, Stupid as it may be, Trump can’t poll better than 42% against Oprah Fuckin’ Winfrey!!!!?????

There may be hope for this country, yet…..

89
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:19:26pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

I agree and I’m a big fan of Biden’s.

What we need is 2016 Biden to run in 2020. Put him in Hypersleep till the Primaries, so he doesn’t get any older.

90
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:19:27pm

re: #88 Jay C

Agree. One the one hand, UGH! indeed….

OTOH, Stupid as it may be, Trump can’t poll better than 42% against Oprah Fuckin’ Winfrey!!!!?????

There may be hope for this country, yet…..

Trump was lucky to run against a nominee nearly as unpopular as he was. It’s extremely unlikely he will have that kind of luck again in 2020.

91
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:19:43pm

I don’t think it will be one of those three. I like Biden a lot but Biden’s time is gone. Sanders? Nope. Oprah? No, sorry just no, if she wants to run for a local office and prove she can handle a government position, I might be sympathetic but otherwise nope. I want people actually in office right now and who aren’t going to 80 in the 2020’s.

92
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:20:46pm

re: #90 Big Beautiful Door

Trump was lucky to run against a nominee nearly as unpopular as he was. It’s extremely unlikely he will have that kind of luck again in 2020.

Yep, I like Hillary quite a bit but we can’t underestimate how much a lightning rod for hate she was in both far left and far right circles. Likewise, Sanders is going to be in for a rude awakening when he doesn’t have her to rail against. More primary opponents will also mean more scrunity for The Bern.

93
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:21:02pm
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allegro  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:21:14pm

re: #49 MsJ

Here it’s going to be ribeye, whole roasted cauliflower with a Gorgonzola dipping sauce for both.

Here it’s going to be there, a 4 course wine pairing dinner at Carrabbas (Italian) with a menu that sounds amazeballs. It was supposed to be last Tuesday but we got iced out.

95
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:21:33pm

re: #71 FormerDirtDart

Hope the Senate has a Mother’s Room.

96
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:21:38pm

re: #89 Blind Frog Belly White

What we need is 2016 Biden to run in 2020. Put him in Hypersleep till the Primaries, so he doesn’t get any older.

Nah. Time to move on with someone younger and more in tune with the world of today. A younger candidate might have more pull with younger folk too. They may not be seen so much as “establishment” either.

97
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:22:09pm

re: #93 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Looks like there’s going to be another shutdown in February.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:22:46pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:23:55pm

re: #90 Big Beautiful Door

Trump was lucky to run against a nominee nearly as unpopular as he was. It’s extremely unlikely he will have that kind of luck again in 2020.

The other thing is that Trump is very, very unlikely to be able to fix his low poll numbers. They persist in the face of economic good times - times which are only incrementally better than the “American Carnage” that preceded them. People talk about Trump’s base being his floor, but the thing is, his ceiling is hardening. Roughly 60% of America completely sees through him.

100
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:23:59pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

Easy solution: reinstate the program until Congress passes a bill.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:24:41pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

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I’m pretty sure there will be a court blocking deportations.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:24:42pm

re: #96 ObserverArt

Nah. Time to move on with someone younger and more in tune with the world of today. A younger candidate might have more pull with younger folk too. They may not be seen so much as “establishment” either.

I think so too and it sucks because Biden is someone I deeply admire and appreciate and I think would be a good President but he’s going to be 77 in 2020. If our top 2 candidates are both going to turn 80 in a hypothetical first term and another is a complete novice, I’m not optimistic about our party going forward. Fortunately, I do think we have some good possible candidates that will emerge as we get closer to the primaries like Harris, Booker, Gilibrand, Duckworth, and others.

103
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:25:05pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

The other thing is that Trump is very, very unlikely to be able to fix his low poll numbers. They persist in the face of economic good times - times which are only incrementally better than the “American Carnage” that preceded them. People talk about Trump’s base being his floor, but the thing is, his ceiling is hardening. Roughly 60% of America completely sees through him.

Yep.

104
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:25:09pm

re: #93 Backwoods_Sleuth

Odds of that bill passing both Houses with a veto-proof majority? How much would it kill Trump if his veto was overridden on a major policy?

105
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:25:28pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Fuck her and Trump.

106
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:25:42pm

re: #100 KGxvi

Easy solution: reinstate the program until Congress passes a bill.

That would be too humane for these assholes.

107
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:25:45pm

re: #85 HappyWarrior

It’s the name recon. Of those three, Biden is the best pick but I’d prefer someone else.

I’d vote for Biden in a minute. I would vote for Oprah if I had to. I would vote for Bernie as someone dragged me to the polls, kicking and screaming and crying my eyes out.

108
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:26:40pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

The other thing is that Trump is very, very unlikely to be able to fix his low poll numbers. They persist in the face of economic good times - times which are only incrementally better than the “American Carnage” that preceded them. People talk about Trump’s base being his floor, but the thing is, his ceiling is hardening. Roughly 60% of America completely sees through him.

And as we all know, there is never going to be a pivot. Trump is going to continue to be as crass, racist and corrupt as he always has been, turning off a large percentage of the electorate even if the economy continues to prosper.

109
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:26:45pm

California lizards, can you tell me about this cow fart thing? I’m thinking about picking a fight with a wingnut who thinks this is the most egregious regulation ever. I feel like being a complete troll and pointing out to him his support of transgender bathroom laws to point out how he has no room to talk about silly regulations.

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SteveMcGriftFlynnComey... ...corruptemoligate RN  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:26:56pm

re: #80 MsJ

In all fairness, if you were going to conduct a poll (I mean by that pay to conduct the poll), what other big names can you put in it to run against Trump besides Clinton? I’m not even sure if anybody is laying the groundwork for a campaign yet.

111
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:27:06pm

re: #107 MsJ

I’d vote for Biden in a minute. I would vote for Oprah if I had to. I would vote for Bernie as someone dragged me to the polls, kicking and screaming and crying my eyes out.

I know but I feel we could do better.

112
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:28:01pm

re: #100 KGxvi

Easy solution: reinstate the program until Congress passes a bill.

Dems should demand that the DACA fix be part of the next funding resolution. Then it’ll unequivocally be Trump choosing to shut down the government rather than support a bill that has 80% support.

113
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:28:06pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

ThinkProgress
✔
@thinkprogress
White House says it might start deporting DREAMers on March 5 bit.ly

4:00 PM - Jan 23, 2018
13 13 Replies 21 21 Retweets 8 8 likes

If they start deporting Dreamers it is going to be the end of Trump and The Republican party dominance. It will be the last bit of proof of who they are and how they have lied about it all from the get-go.

I don’t care who you think you are and what you think your base supports, going against Americans that have hearts and support DACA up to 90% in polling is all that will be needed to make Trump the cold heartless creep we know he is evident to everyone.

And they will do it. Trump will step right into the hole.

114
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:28:30pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

2020 for the Democrats is going to look a lot like 1992 and 2004. I suspect there will be a lot of people testing the waters. And more importantly, I think there’s going to be a generational shift.

115
SteveMcGriftFlynnComey... ...corruptemoligate RN  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:29:46pm

re: #114 KGxvi

I’ve been expecting a generational shift for generations.

116
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:29:51pm

I’ve had similar observations. Trump does have a fairly high floor (higher than Bush’s) but he’s also gotten a low ceiling that will make re-election fairly difficult. OTOH he will have incumbency but I think that may play to his disadvantage different than a normal incumbent. His whole schtick to gettign elected in the first place was talking about how awful everything was and while the whole “Trump miracle” may work with the wingnuts, it may not work with other voters. I don’t know. I think we can beat him. I can’t see him increasing his popular vote tally.

117
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:30:25pm

re: #114 KGxvi

2020 for the Democrats is going to look a lot like 1992 and 2004. I suspect there will be a lot of people testing the waters. And more importantly, I think there’s going to be a generational shift.

Boomers to the Gen Xers?

118
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:30:42pm

re: #115 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

I’ve been expecting a generational shift for generations.

We thought 2008 was that but alas.

119
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:30:54pm

re: #80 MsJ

Ugh. Just. Ugh.

[Embedded content]

Tammy Duckworth 2020

Kamala Harris
Cory Booker
Kirsten Gillibrand
Adam Schiff
Julian Castro
Tim Kaine
Michelle Obama

120
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:31:17pm

re: #104 KGxvi

Odds of that bill passing both Houses with a veto-proof majority? How much would it kill Trump if his veto was overridden on a major policy?

I hope it will kill Trump with American voters and I hope it will kill the Republican base voters they need to keep control of Congress.

It is a double edged sword.

121
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:31:51pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

It’s not about the farting, so much as the shit:

Regulators are looking for ways to reduce so-called enteric emissions — methane produced by bovine digestive systems. That could eventually require changes to what cattle eat.

But the biggest target is dairy manure, which accounts for about a quarter of the state’s methane emissions.

State regulators want more farmers to reduce emissions with methane digesters, which capture methane from manure in large storage tanks and convert the gas into electricity.

The state has set aside $50 million to help dairies set up digesters, but farmers say that’s not nearly enough to equip the state’s roughly 1,500 dairies.

Link

122
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:33:30pm

re: #100 KGxvi

Easy solution: reinstate the program until Congress passes a bill.

daca is entirely in trump’s hands

123
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:33:53pm

re: #121 KGxvi

It’s not about the farting, so much as the shit:

Link

Thanks man. I thought it was more complicated than he was making it out. I don’t feel like bothering to say anything since he doesn’t listen to people who debunk him. I caught him in a bs meme and another one of his friends caught him in another and he just made an excuse. He really is the last person who should be bitching about silly regulations given as I said the dude believes in transgender bathroom laws and from what you tell me, this really isn’t that silly at all.

124
Renaissance_Man  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:34:50pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

I’ve had similar observations. Trump does have a fairly high floor (higher than Bush’s) but he’s also gotten a low ceiling that will make re-election fairly difficult. OTOH he will have incumbency but I think that may play to his disadvantage different than a normal incumbent. His whole schtick to gettign elected in the first place was talking about how awful everything was and while the whole “Trump miracle” may work with the wingnuts, it may not work with other voters. I don’t know. I think we can beat him. I can’t see him increasing his popular vote tally.

Getting less votes doesn’t stop Republicans from winning elections.

125
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:35:09pm

re: #110 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

In all fairness, if you were going to conduct a poll (I mean by that pay to conduct the poll), what other big names can you put in it to run against Trump besides Clinton? I’m not even sure if anybody is laying the groundwork for a campaign yet.

we’re three (or two) years out. it doesnt mean anything

126
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:35:31pm

re: #117 HappyWarrior

Boomers to the Gen Xers?

Yeah, maybe some older millennials (depending on how you define both generations). But you have to figure, younger boomers are going to be in their 60s, so it makes more sense for GenXers and millennials to start filling the void.

127
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:07pm

re: #124 Renaissance_Man

Getting less votes doesn’t stop Republicans from winning elections.

True. But we’ve never had a two term President that has lost the popular vote both elections. Plus I think it’s prime time for the streak of two term Presidents to end.

128
plf1953  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:13pm

re: #101 Big Beautiful Door

I’m pretty sure there will be a court blocking deportations.

US District Judge Alsup’s temporary injunction is, for now, still in effect … effectively preventing Dreamer deportation.

Only Supreme Court can change this … Kennedy is likely key.

129
wrenchwench  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:16pm

re: #122 dangerman

daca is entirely in trump’s hands

That’s the stuff of nightmares.

130
Sir John Barron  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:18pm

re: #73 Backwoods_Sleuth

So the InfoWars tweet is wrong on eleventy levels? About what we expect.

131
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:20pm

re: #117 HappyWarrior

Boomers to the Gen Xers?

…oh no. not again……

132
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:36:54pm

re: #126 KGxvi

Yeah, maybe some older millennials (depending on how you define both generations). But you have to figure, younger boomers are going to be in their 60s, so it makes more sense for GenXers and millennials to start filling the void.

He’s not talked about often since he may not run but I like Connecticut’s Chris Murphy for some kind of role. There’s a lot of young Dems I like out there.

133
EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:37:03pm

re: #124 Renaissance_Man

Getting less votes doesn’t stop Republicans from winning elections.

If there’s a large enough vote margin against the Republicans, they won’t be able to steal the corresponding election.

134
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:37:11pm

re: #110 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

In all fairness, if you were going to conduct a poll (I mean by that pay to conduct the poll), what other big names can you put in it to run against Trump besides Clinton? I’m not even sure if anybody is laying the groundwork for a campaign yet.

I don’t know. There are people I like but I don’t really know the people across the US to even consider anyone at this point. I can say who I don’t want (Oprah or Bernie) but I can’t begin to name anyone else.

I never heard of Bill Clinton before he ran. Or Dukakis. Or most of them. Now I might know if someone was going to run but just as likely not.

135
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:37:31pm

re: #123 HappyWarrior

Thanks man. I thought it was more complicated than he was making it out. I don’t feel like bothering to say anything since he doesn’t listen to people who debunk him. I caught him in a bs meme and another one of his friends caught him in another and he just made an excuse. He really is the last person who should be bitching about silly regulations given as I said the dude believes in transgender bathroom laws and from what you tell me, this really isn’t that silly at all.

I’d actually not even heard of it until you mentioned it. There’s the typical crying of “we’re going to lose dairies” and “our margins are already so thin” but there’s also government grants to install the digesters… and some of the dairies are closing/moving because developers are willing to pay very large sums of money for their land to build houses, offices, and stores.

136
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:38:01pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

That’s the stuff of nightmares.

i refrained from using “lap”

137
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:38:11pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

That’s the stuff of nightmares.

DACA not caca… that first letter makes a big difference.

138
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:38:18pm

re: #110 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

In all fairness, if you were going to conduct a poll (I mean by that pay to conduct the poll), what other big names can you put in it to run against Trump besides Clinton? I’m not even sure if anybody is laying the groundwork for a campaign yet.

And let me add, I don’t want anyone to declare any time soon. The longer someone’s name is out there, the longer the right wing noise machine (and Russia) has to fuck them over and taint their names. Just as they did Hillary for 20 years.

139
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:38:18pm

re: #131 dangerman

…oh no. not again……

Relax, I was simply talking about the natural progression. It’s kind of how we went from the Greatest Generation age bracket of Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon to Clinton, Gore, Bush II, Hillary, and others. Biden and Kerry technically aren’t boomers as they were born during the war.

140
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:38:49pm

re: #133 EPR-radar

If there’s a large enough vote margin against the Republicans, they won’t be able to steal the corresponding election.

Yep. The key will be getting over 50% of the popular vote. If we do that, it won’t matter IMO.

141
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:39:00pm
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142
Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:39:31pm

re: #114 KGxvi

2020 for the Democrats is going to look a lot like 1992 and 2004. I suspect there will be a lot of people testing the waters. And more importantly, I think there’s going to be a generational shift.

I’m hoping you mean “1992 and 2008”??

143
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:39:38pm

re: #138 MsJ

And let me add, I don’t want anyone to declare any time soon. The longer someone’s name is out there, the longer the right wing noise machine (and Russia) has to fuck them over and taint their names. Just as they did Hillary for 20 years.

You know as well as I do that Dinesh Douchesousa’s got a stupid “Name here’s America” in the works. Say what you want about Moore but at least he has different tunes in his documentaries.

144
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:39:55pm

re: #141 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Congrats to her and her family.

145
dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:39:59pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

Relax, I was simply talking about the natural progression. It’s kind of how we went from the Greatest Generation age bracket of Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, and Nixon to Clinton, Gore, Bush II, Hillary, and others. Biden and Kerry technically aren’t boomers as they were born during the war.

trouble. My friends call me trouble, as in “here comes….”

146
Chrysicat  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:40:26pm
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147
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:41:21pm

re: #145 dangerman

trouble. My friends call me trouble, as in “here comes….”

Snicker, let’s rag on the silent generation and see if they say anything.

148
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:42:27pm

re: #146 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

Maybe after your President leaves for Russia first, after all y’all loved Putin so much in the Obama years. At least anti-Trump folks don’t hitch their wagon to dictators like Putin to oppose Trump.

149
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:43:34pm

re: #117 HappyWarrior

Boomers to the Gen Xers?

re: #118 HappyWarrior

We thought 2008 was that but alas.

2008 was. But, there was a woman who had worked her butt off for 30+ years to become the most qualified presidential candidate ever. And then there were Republicans and Russians. But I think the Democrats have shifted to the next generation.

150
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:44:04pm

re: #142 Jay C

I’m hoping you mean “1992 and 2008”??

Nope, 2004. In 2008 they tried to clear the field for Clinton like they did in 2016 (go back and look at how many Super Delegates supported Clinton early in 2008). The difference was that Obama, instead of being an also ran who would then have experience for a later run, ended up being an incredible politician.

151
William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:44:20pm

re: #37 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Anyone arrested by the ICE or it’s minions should only tell them their name, rank if any (say civilian otherwise) & SSN/serial number - just like we’d do with any other enemy of America that captured us…

152
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:45:00pm

re: #135 KGxvi

I’d actually not even heard of it until you mentioned it. There’s the typical crying of “we’re going to lose dairies” and “our margins are already so thin” but there’s also government grants to install the digesters… and some of the dairies are closing/moving because developers are willing to pay very large sums of money for their land to build houses, offices, and stores.

He’s my best friend but man he just finds stupid right wing shit to post. There was a fauxrage about American University that he found. AU is a private university so I really felt like snickering and asking him how AU alleegdly (they didn’t, this was bullshit) having a cafe ban white students was really any different from what he believes about bakeries being able to deny LGBT people service but his friend called him out on it first and I was already exhausted from calling him out on posting something stuipd about how Trump’s administration had more women in higher places than any other one.

153
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:45:11pm

re: #132 HappyWarrior

He’s not talked about often since he may not run but I like Connecticut’s Chris Murphy for some kind of role. There’s a lot of young Dems I like out there.

Another possible candidate everyone seems to forget exists is Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan.

If anything, he will be trying to become Speaker of the House should the Democrats take congress this year. He’s 44 and comes from the “tough’ part of Ohio that Trump seemed to get interest from.

We may not mention him, but there seems to be some interest in Democratic political circles.

154
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:45:34pm

re: #150 KGxvi

I should clarify, I meant what the primary field would look like, more than what the general election outcome would be.

155
scottslemmons  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:45:43pm

re: #117 HappyWarrior

Boomers to the Gen Xers?

As a Gen X’er, could I suggest not letting any of us have too much power? We appear to be the worst generation, if my high school graduating class full of wingnuts is any indication.

156
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:46:45pm

re: #153 ObserverArt

Another possible candidate everyone seems to forget exists is Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan.

If anything, he will be trying to become Speaker of the HOuse should the Democrats take congress this year. He’s 44 and comes from the “tough’ part of Ohio that Trump seemed to get interest from.

We may not mention him, but there seems to be some interest in Democratic political circles.

Better than him than Gabbard who may also be running. Her and Bernie are my “Please don’t nominate these two”. Ryan though, we could use someone not named Bernie to actually offer a working class perspective. Bernie’s not nearly as working class as he thinks he is.

157
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:47:31pm

re: #155 scottslemmons

As a Gen X’er, could I suggest not letting any of us have too much power? We appear to be the worst generation, if my high school graduating class full of wingnuts is any indication.

Well Gen X liberals and Democrats are fine. And we have a lot of people in my generation who suck too.

158
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:48:02pm

re: #123 HappyWarrior

Thanks man. I thought it was more complicated than he was making it out. I don’t feel like bothering to say anything since he doesn’t listen to people who debunk him. I caught him in a bs meme and another one of his friends caught him in another and he just made an excuse. He really is the last person who should be bitching about silly regulations given as I said the dude believes in transgender bathroom laws and from what you tell me, this really isn’t that silly at all.

It can be really difficult for some folks to comprehend that cumulative effect of things like that. It’s like the guy who pours his waste oil in the storm drain because, after all, it flows to the Bay, which flows to the ocean, which is HUGE!

159
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:48:10pm

re: #155 scottslemmons

As a Gen X’er, could I suggest not letting any of us have too much power? We appear to be the worst generation, if my high school graduating class full of wingnuts is any indication.

A 19 year old just threatened to kill a bunch of CNN people. It’s not really a generational thing.

160
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:48:32pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Yep. The key will be getting over 50% of the popular vote. If we do that, it won’t matter IMO.

Uhm. Hillary got more then 50% did she not?

161
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:49:32pm

re: #160 MsJ

Uhm. Hillary got more then 50% did she not?

No, she didn’t. 48.2%.

162
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:50:00pm

re: #159 Belafon

A 19 year old just threatened to kill a bunch of CNN people. It’s not really a generational thing.

Sure it is! Don’t you realize that the Boomers ruined GenX by telling them The Big Chill is a great movie for 30 years?
////////////////////

163
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:50:31pm

re: #149 Belafon

2008 was. But, there was a woman who had worked her butt off for 30+ years to become the most qualified presidential candidate ever. And then there were Republicans and Russians. But I think the Democrats have shifted to the next generation.

This is one of those things that really bugged me about the Clinton campaign in 2016. She was very well qualified, but the “most qualified”? She was a Senator and Secretary of State. But GHW Bush served in the House, he was head of the CIA, he was an ambassador to China and to the UN, and a modern VP. Nixon served in the House, the Senate, and was the first modern VP. Gore was a Senator and a modern VP. All of those were just as, if not more, qualified for the job as Clinton was when she ran.

164
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:50:44pm

re: #159 Belafon

A 19 year old just threatened to kill a bunch of CNN people. It’s not really a generational thing.

Yep. We had this discussion the other day but there are good and shitty people in all generations. My aforementioned wingnut friend is exactly two weeks older than me and we pretty much grew up in the same place but he’s one way and I’m well you all know me.

165
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:52:08pm

re: #163 KGxvi

This is one of those things that really bugged me about the Clinton campaign in 2016. She was very well qualified, but the “most qualified”? She was a Senator and Secretary of State. But GHW Bush served in the House, he was head of the CIA, he was an ambassador to China and to the UN, and a modern VP. Nixon served in the House, the Senate, and was the first modern VP. Gore was a Senator and a modern VP. All of those were just as, if not more, qualified for the job as Clinton was when she ran.

Hyperbole perhaps but remember she was perhaps the most active FL ever too. It didn’t really bother me becaues any male candidate with the same qualifications would do the same and I think comparatively, she was the most qualified candidate ever compared with her opponent.

166
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:52:52pm

re: #162 Blind Frog Belly White

Sure it is! Don’t you realize that the Boomers ruined GenX by telling them The Big Chill is a great movie for 30 years?
////////////////////

I’m pretty sure Boomers ruined my generation by creating Wall Street, which most of my generation totally misinterpreted.

167
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:52:54pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

Congrats to her and her family.

Duckworth will be 50 on March 12. Her husband is Bryan Bowlsbey.

Stars and Stripes story from 2005, shortly after she was wounded and before she was a major public figure:

‘The pedals were gone, and so were my legs’

168
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:54:15pm

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Duckworth will be 50 on March 12. Her husband is Bryan Bowlsbey.

Stars and Stripes story from 2005, shortly after she was wounded and before she was a major public figure:

‘The pedals were gone, and so were my legs’

She’s a tough lady. Any browbeating “alpha male” who calls women weak should talk to her. But the idea women are weak is stupid even if they haven’t served in combat. I’d love to see Cernovich try to give birth.

169
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:55:14pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Hyperbole perhaps but remember she was perhaps the most active FL ever too. It didn’t really bother me becaues any male candidate with the same qualifications would do the same and I think comparatively, she was the most qualified candidate ever compared with her opponent.

2016 was an incredibly weird election. We’d never had a major party nominee without at least administrative experience in government, so relatively speaking, yes, she was incredibly well qualified compared to her opponent. But the hyperbole felt too much for me and it bothered me from the first time I heard it.

170
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:57:02pm

re: #169 KGxvi

2016 was an incredibly weird election. We’d never had a major party nominee without at least administrative experience in government, so relatively speaking, yes, she was incredibly well qualified compared to her opponent. But the hyperbole felt too much for me and it bothered me from the first time I heard it.

Fair enough. Actually though, Wendell Wilikie was like Trump in that he had none of that experience. I still don’t know how the heck he got nominated but he was a good man on the issues and in some ways I like him as a person better than FDR but he wouldn’t have been able to do WWII like FDR did.

171
Nyet  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:57:10pm
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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:57:36pm

Kimberly-Clark, the company that makes Kleenex and Huggies, is closing 10 plants, laying off 5,000 workers: wfaa.com. So much winning, Donald.

173
Nyet  Jan 23, 2018 • 1:59:29pm
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sagehen  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:00:04pm

re: #90 Big Beautiful Door

Trump was lucky to run against a nominee nearly as unpopular as he was. It’s extremely unlikely he will have that kind of luck again in 2020.

Also, not so many people knew Trump as well as they do now.

Several million people who took a flyer on an unknown (“how bad can he be?”) know better now.

175
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:00:11pm

re: #166 Belafon

I’m pretty sure Boomers ruined my generation by creating Wall Street, which most of my generation totally misinterpreted.

I heard something on NPR a few months back that really struck me. Apparently there was a revival of ‘Glengarry, Glen Ross’ on Broadway, and a bunch of young hedge fund types went to see it only to be terribly disappointed.

It seems their hero was the Alec Baldwin “Fuck you! That’s my name” character, who was created for the movie. He was their model, their idol. And he was created for the movie, and never existed in the play.

Totally misinterpreting the message.

Those guys would see ‘It’s A Wonderful Life” as a tragedy because Mr. Potter is unable to destroy George Bailey, even after effectively stealing $8000 from him.

176
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:00:38pm

re: #165 HappyWarrior

Hyperbole perhaps but remember she was perhaps the most active FL ever too. It didn’t really bother me becaues any male candidate with the same qualifications would do the same and I think comparatively, she was the most qualified candidate ever compared with her opponent.

And we can’t forget her very political and good work she did as a private lawyer at the Rose Law Firm. Yale Law School is nothing to sneeze at. She was also a congressional legal counsel and an active first lady of Arkansas too.

I think you have to go out of your way to say she wasn’t as qualified as anyone that has run.

And personal opinion…I think she was more qualified then some because she was also the first woman to run too. Her being female would have brought a whole different view of families, women’s issues and people of color than any man that has become president so far.

177
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:01:16pm

re: #176 ObserverArt

And we can’t forget her very political and good work she did as a private lawyer at the Rose Law Firm. Yale Law School is nothing to sneeze at. She was also a congressional legal counsel and an active first lady of Arkansas too.

I think you have to go out of your way to say she wasn’t as qualified as anyone that has run.

And personal opinion…I think she was more qualified then some because she was also the first woman to run too. Her being female would have brought a whole different view of families, women’s issues and people of color than any man that has become president so far.

That’s true as well.

178
Mike Lamb  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:01:36pm

re: #146 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

I’m sure “Resist the Resistance” also has something about respecting the Constitution in his bio…

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MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:01:55pm
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Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:02:19pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

181
BeachDem  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:02:46pm

re: #138 MsJ

And let me add, I don’t want anyone to declare any time soon. The longer someone’s name is out there, the longer the right wing noise machine (and Russia) has to fuck them over and taint their names. Just as they did Hillary for 20 years.

Plus, I love Joe Biden, but jeez—he ran in 1988 and in 2008 with short-lived campaign success. And we’ve let them portray him as a “gaffe machine” (totally unwarranted, I believe) and worse. They’ll bring up the same stuff they did then, plus another 10 years of crap. And now, in addition to all that, he’s too fucking old! (Don’t EVEN get me started on Bernie…)

182
sagehen  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:03:05pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Fortunately, I do think we have some good possible candidates that will emerge as we get closer to the primaries like Harris, Booker, Gilibrand, Duckworth, and others.

Am I the only one who thinks a Governor would be vastly preferable to another Senator? We lucked out with Obama, he turned out to be more capable than I first feared… but even so, his learning curve moving from collaborative-legislator to decisionmaking-executive accounts for most of his missed opportunities.

183
Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:03:53pm

Something for teleskiguy (since he loves skiing) and a all around inspiration for the rest of us.

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Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:04:48pm

re: #180 Patricia Kayden

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

Because 100% of that 36% will vote, while 75% of the other 64% won’t.

185
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:05:23pm

re: #182 sagehen

Am I the only one who thinks a Governor would be vastly preferable to another Senator? We lucked out with Obama, he turned out to be more capable than I first feared… but even so, his learning curve moving from collaborative-legislator to decisionmaking-executive accounts for most of his missed opportunities.

No you’re not. I just don’t know the governors that well but I did like O’Malley two years ago.

186
Nyet  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:08:04pm
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187
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:08:23pm

re: #180 Patricia Kayden

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

He doesn’t care about them. Everyone told him nobody as unpopular as he is could win, and he won.

And honestly, if he gets the nomination, he’s guaranteed 45%. He only beat that by 1.1% last time and now he’s President.

188
Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:13:25pm

re: #184 Skip Intro

Trump’s antics (racist comments, sleaziness, ineptitude, bullying) has given his detractors strong motivation to come out and vote. Look at what happened in Virginia and Alabama and several special elections, for example. I see no evidence that our side won’t come out to vote in November.

189
allegro  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:15:16pm

re: #180 Patricia Kayden

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

I think he will never care because he has no intention of running again even if he does make it for a full term this time. He’s miserable in that job, doesn’t want it, hates his life, the limitations on him, and the criticism that he can’t control.

190
Chrysicat  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:15:54pm

re: #188 Patricia Kayden

I’d love to agree with you and I’m sure we’ll WANT to.

I’m equally sure the Rs wouldn’t be strutting around like this if they weren’t positive they can suppress any negative votes to the point where the vast majority of them hold their seats, though.

I still think we lost the First American Republic in ‘16 and these are just the death throes; I won’t stop thinking that way unless we can get a D majority in at least one house.

191
SteveMcGriftFlynnComey... ...corruptemoligate RN  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:17:39pm

It doesn’t matter whether Trump runs or not. Whatever (R) runs, they have to lose.

192
Mattand  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:17:48pm

Did everyone check out the interview with Tony Perkins at Politico yet? Let me summarize:

Reader’s Digest version: “Trump can sleep with as many porn stars or grope as many women as he wants, as long as he criminalizes abortion and forces our religious views down the country’s throat.”

The only difference between the American religious right and ISIS at this point is the color of their skin and the religious book they blindly worship.

193
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:19:36pm

re: #192 Mattand

Did everyone check out the interview with Tony Perkins at Politico yet? Let me summarize:

Reader’s Digest version: “Trump can sleep with as many porn stars or grope as many women as he wants, as long as he criminalizes abortion and forces our religious views down the country’s throat.”

The only difference between the American religious right and ISIS at this point is the color of their skin and the religious book they blindly worship.

I did. Perkins really is a shithead.

194
Mattand  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:20:41pm

re: #174 sagehen

Also, not so many people knew Trump as well as they do now.

Several million people who took a flyer on an unknown (“how bad can he be?”) know better now.

Fuck these people. Seriously. They were presented with terabytes of data showing what a monster Trump is, and they voted for him/stayed home regardless. And the ones I’ve encountered would do it again.

This is what I was complaining about the other day: we’re relying on these fucking idiots to do the right thing in November, when all evidence shows they couldn’t get it right the last time.

195
sagehen  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:22:03pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

No you’re not. I just don’t know the governors that well but I did like O’Malley two years ago.

Or a big-city mayor; check out this guy

en.wikipedia.org

He’s got some scandals; but they’re way milder than what the Trumpers are willing to hand-wave, so maybe that’s not such an issue anymore.

196
sagehen  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:23:25pm

re: #192 Mattand

Did everyone check out the interview with Tony Perkins at Politico yet? Let me summarize:

Reader’s Digest version: “Trump can sleep with as many porn stars or grope as many women as he wants, as long as he criminalizes abortion and forces our religious views down the country’s throat.”

The only difference between the American religious right and ISIS at this point is the color of their skin and the religious book they blindly worship.

Also, facial hair.

197
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:23:43pm

re: #195 sagehen

Or a big-city mayor; check out this guy

en.wikipedia.org

He’s got some scandals; but they’re way milder than what the Trumpers are willing to hand-wave, so maybe that’s not such an issue anymore.

I like Castro for his mayoral and HUD experience.

198
Mattand  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:24:44pm

re: #193 HappyWarrior

I did. Perkins really is a shithead.

I’m having what may turn to be one of the worst days of my life, and seeing this has just ratcheted my anger up to 23 on a scale of 1-10.

What I posted above is a copy/paste of what I sent out to Facebook. I’m probably burning more bridges but I don’t care.

There was a story floating around about the 9/11 hijackers that, despite being Wahabi, they were given special dispensation by Bin Laden, or whoever, to live a ‘decadent’ Western lifestyle, because taking out the WTC was more important.

I’m failing to see the difference between them and the American religious right.

199
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:24:51pm

There’s a lot of good potential choices.

200
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:25:20pm

re: #194 Mattand

Fuck these people. Seriously. They were presented with terabytes of data showing what a monster Trump is, and they voted for him/stayed home regardless. And the ones I’ve encountered would do it again.

This is what I was complaining about the other day: we’re relying on these fucking idiots to do the right thing in November, when all evidence shows they couldn’t get it right the last time.

My heartiest Fuck Yous are reserved for “progressives” who voted for Stein, because either they figured Clinton had it in the bag, or worse, they didn’t think there’d be any difference between Clinton and Trump. That is the ultimate in white privilege, to look at someone who built his whole campaign around an overt appeal to racism and not think preventing him becoming President was THE most important thing to do.

201
Mattand  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:26:03pm

re: #200 Blind Frog Belly White

My heartiest Fuck Yous are reserved for “progressives” who voted for Stein, because either they figured Clinton had it in the bag, or worse, they didn’t think there’d be any difference between Clinton and Trump. That is the ultimate in white privilege, to look at someone who built his whole campaign around an overt appeal to racism and not think preventing him becoming President was THE most important thing to do.

I cannot upvote this enough.

202
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:26:13pm

re: #200 Blind Frog Belly White

My heartiest Fuck Yous are reserved for “progressives” who voted for Stein, because either they figured Clinton had it in the bag, or worse, they didn’t think there’d be any difference between Clinton and Trump. That is the ultimate in white privilege, to look at someone who built his whole campaign around an overt appeal to racism and not think preventing him becoming President was THE most important thing to do.

Well said.

203
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:29:02pm

I LOVED The Big Sick

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205
Nyet  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:30:35pm

latimes.com

This month, a group of male students from the Ulyanovsk Institute of Civil Aviation made a YouTube clip of themselves dancing in their underwear and cadet hats to an early 2000s club hit, “Satisfaction.” In the video, the young cadets strutted through the hallways and rooms of their dorm as they gyrated their hips to the beat and performed ordinary tasks such as ironing or mopping the floor.

Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency wasn’t laughing. The agency responded to the cadets’ video by saying the “strictest disciplinary measures” would be taken against “all involved in this immoral episode.”

“Frivolous dances in underwear in the institute’s uniform cap on the territory of the aviation university are unacceptable,” the statement said. “Civil aviation is a highly responsible branch in which discipline and order are the guarantee of quality and safety.”

The “offending” video:

КАК РАЗВЛЕКАЮТСЯ ПИЛОТЫ МЕЖДУ ПОЛЕТАМИ, УЛЬЯНОВСК СНОВА ЗНАМЕНИТ

The agency’s harsh response set in motion what has now become known as the “Satisfaction Challenge” (it even has a hashtag), a flash mob of videos supporting the cadets. Within hours of the Russian authorities’ threats, dozens of videos appeared on YouTube and social media in support of the cadets.

Ukrainian swimmers:

Satisfaction-Украинские пловцы в поддержку ульяновских курсантов


Jockeys:

Пародия в поддержку ульяновских курсантов от конников.


Retirees:

Питерские пенсионерки в поддержку курсантов летного училища


Electricians:

Satisfaction challenge #ЭЛЕКТРИКИ#


Housewives:

Мамы поддержали Ульяновских летчиков Satisfaction


Female students:

Волгоградские студентки. Satisfaction.


Rescuers:

МЧС РОССИИ SATISFACTION КЛИП ПОЛНАЯ ВЕРСИЯ


Doctors:

Ответ от девушек - медиков Курсантам Ульяновского летного училища


Construction workers:

Строители satisfaction


Seamen:

Видео Моряки курсанты устроили грязные танцы в общежитии под Satisfaction

206
fern01  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:32:22pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

Proof positive - the GOP will always and forever blame Obama - for anything and everything

207
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:34:18pm

re: #205 Nyet

latimes.com

The “offending” video:

[Embedded content]

So great! Of course I watched the Olds.

208
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:35:04pm

re: #198 Mattand

I’m having what may turn to be one of the worst days of my life, and seeing this has just ratcheted my anger up to 23 on a scale of 1-10.

What I posted above is a copy/paste of what I sent out to Facebook. I’m probably burning more bridges but I don’t care.

There was a story floating around about the 9/11 hijackers that, despite being Wahabi, they were given special dispensation by Bin Laden, or whoever, to live a ‘decadent’ Western lifestyle, because taking out the WTC was more important.

I’m failing to see the difference between them and the American religious right.

You get a do-over here’: Evangelical leaders’ apparent double-standard on the alleged Trump-Daniels affair

Apparent my ass.

washingtonpost.com

There’s another WP article I read today that rips into religious pimps like Franklin Graham, Falwell Jr and other evangelicals who have given Trump a 100% pass on everything he does. I’ll see if I can find it.

209
Renaissance_Man  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:40:13pm

re: #180 Patricia Kayden

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

Perhaps because I don’t think any of us are sure that’s true.

210
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:40:58pm

re: #195 sagehen

Or a big-city mayor; check out this guy

en.wikipedia.org

He’s got some scandals; but they’re way milder than what the Trumpers are willing to hand-wave, so maybe that’s not such an issue anymore.

I live in Los Angeles. All he did was give a blank check to developers to demolish old housing stock and replace with “luxury” overpriced suites.

211
mmmirele  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:42:13pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

Not much, not when you count in the hundreds of lawsuits for eminent domain. Those Texas ranchers are NOT going to give up their land without a fight. And I know a librarian in McAllen who is ready to do a sit in at the National Butterfly Center in McAllen if the the Feds come in with their wall. (There was a lot of outrage last summer when the Army Corps of Engineers came busting in and chainsawed down a portion of the center’s habitat for Trump’s wall. Not a popular move in the area!)

212
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:44:00pm

Facebook Post

Must be a libertarian.

213
Ace-o-aces  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:44:14pm
ReplyReply w/ QuoteImages

Reality is broken.

214
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:45:39pm

Pre: #213 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Reality is broken.

Weird.

215
BeachDem  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:50:27pm

I know there are a lot of her fans here:

Ursula Le Guin, master of speculative fiction, dies in Portland at age 88

oregonlive.com

216
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:51:15pm

Like I was saying …

SEOUL/BEIJING, Jan 23 (Reuters) - China and South Korea condemned steep import tariffs on washing machines and solar panels imposed by U.S. President Donald Trump, with Seoul set to complain to the World Trade Organization (WTO) over the “excessive” move.

Europe also said on Tuesday it regretted the U.S. decision and would react “firmly and proportionately” if EU exports were hit by the tariffs, which Asia fears could be be the start of greater protectionism and stall a revival in global trade.

…

“It is clear that the latest safeguard measures would violate the WTO rules,” South Korea’s trade minister Kim Hyun-chong said in a meeting with industry officials. “We will actively respond to protectionist measures.”

China, the world’s biggest solar panel producer branded the move an “overreaction” and said it would work with other WTO members to protect its interests.

217
wrenchwench  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:51:29pm

re: #205 Nyet

latimes.com

The “offending” video:

[Embedded content]

Video

Retirees:

[Embedded content]

I don’t have all day. Do you want me to report nazis or what?

218
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:52:29pm

iuhu6ZabZiN0FEBr88ppObFtC3PUsADjrHKInwZBfl0uzYOO2zLuhWGhaDE+XEqkSTs2drl07t//+vbfp0tzKkrLfe8ibdOGZY9OoXDBDKsxqmlmXOWqypWdYUbtpU3m5QEzLSBASONiZm0OBiT2NrhoxBIzXZZd1zLdz1ZbV3ddCvJjIjBbYgPMINmFaPiA

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Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:55:23pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

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7fs2H1S+I05uILvJRu6KDe4pQOhzPTLr/5x+1iQkNtk=

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KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:58:15pm

re: #180 Patricia Kayden

Trump doesn’t appear to care about his low poll numbers. He has done nothing to reach out to the millions of us who didn’t vote for him. His only interest is to appeal to his base. I’m not sure why his handlers aren’t informing him that he cannot win with 36% of the vote despite all the voter suppression tactics the GOP is employing.

re: #209 Renaissance_Man

Perhaps because I don’t think any of us are sure that’s true.

Alternative theory: even they don’t want him to win re-election

221
Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 2:59:05pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

lxbV+Lpf8GnD1pw2GF1pPl5oNK5AX3jP

222
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:02:34pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

TxNnAYh+kZ5ZmKaZAnQZbVglx+ttj4d2HT71Ai7HKOxGGh3fgBYvVDBti2pq2FQFbkJaW6h6A93tfftdV+0ob0G1Hz20RQwfE95Lt62t6KOD8+ezCljjTLOYdFCjkm+Lc8Ird/w7cCM=

223
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:02:38pm

Facebook Post

They’re in a bit of a quandary here since there seems to be no suitable venue anywhere in the United States that is NOT close to the location of some high profile gun crime.

224
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:04:19pm

re: #223 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

[Embedded content]

They’re in a bit of a quandary here since there seems to be no suitable venue anywhere in the United States that is NOT close to the location of some high profile gun crime.

Or as the gun industry calls them “marketing opportunities”.

225
scottslemmons  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:04:43pm

re: #223 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

[Embedded content]

They’re in a bit of a quandary here since there seems to be no suitable venue anywhere in the United States that is NOT close to the location of some high profile gun crime.

…They probably think it’s an ideal spot. “Come see where we helped kill so many! Here’s the gun that did it! Here’s a pinup of the gunman! Buy buy buy!”

226
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:05:01pm

MAGA

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227
Joe Bacon 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:08:48pm

re: #206 fern01

Proof positive - the GOP will always and forever blame Obama - for anything and everything

Hell, they’re still blaming Jimmy Carter 40 years later….

228
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:10:52pm

re: #227 Joe Bacon 🌹

Hell, they’re still blaming Jimmy Carter 40 years later….

yeppers…and a Democrat lusting in his heart is so much way worse than paying off a porn star…

229
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:12:08pm
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:13:08pm
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goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:14:56pm

re: #226 FormerDirtDart

MAGA

[Embedded content]

We’re going to see a lot more of this. The only incentive corporations have in spending their tax cut money is to increase automation, give out dividends or buy back stock. If anything this will end up accelerating job losses due to investment in robotic manufacturing & artificial intelligence.

232
Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:18:36pm

Ewww.

233
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:19:04pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

cpmgCaqj0YsJMOuLRS+BLO0TLNVfIhcyypBWEFc7W5ePIxBkaP2m4z9pGlA2NfaTQXQpi59GBm9PhneZGzPNl0z7DTURosVoG1aw9uJeY0XzJw9iujpyyI+AeqTAOlfvOSVSukyDlbPCGptK23khyYskMeV1WGQL2kpj1g0mnHM=

234
Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:19:55pm

Imagine seeing those moist fish lips coming at you while he grips your shoulders. Agh. I think I grossed myself out.

235
EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:20:07pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

We’re going to see a lot more of this. The only incentive corporations have in spending their tax cut money is to increase automation, give out dividends or buy back stock. If anything this will end up accelerating job losses due to investment in robotic manufacturing & artificial intelligence.

More and more I’m convinced that the descent of the US into the capitalist end game of untold riches for the very few, wage slavery for some, and starvation for everyone else was postponed by 70 years by the mere existence of the USSR.

236
Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:20:52pm

re: #227 Joe Bacon 🌹

Hell, they’re still blaming Jimmy Carter 40 years later….

I’m surprised they haven’t blamed him for putting solar panels on the WH roof: thus giving the Chinese bad ideas……

237
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:21:05pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Imagine seeing those moist fish remora lips coming at you while he grips your shoulders. Agh. I think I grossed myself out.

238
Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:22:40pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Imagine seeing those moist fish lips coming at you while he grips your shoulders. Agh. I think I grossed myself out.

And many of your commenters, as well. Thanks, Charles…

239
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:22:54pm

That base is a pretty damn solid floor.

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240
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:23:07pm

So, Ari Melber is saying the show down is coming soon. Trump and Trump’s lawyers are working on grounds for Mueller to question Trump on Comey and Flynn, etc. It sounds like Trump is balking. Like one of Ari’s guest says the guy who has said he has nothing to hide, no Russians, no collusion all of a sudden has cold feet makes him appear to have something to hide at best.

With the fact they talked to Sessions, it sounds like we are getting to the real meat of the matter.

241
Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kodos  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:23:49pm

re: #98 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Was the White House statement “We want to find a solution” or was it “We want a Final Solution” in regards to Dreamers? If Stephen “Blood and Soil” Miller was the one who crafted it, it’s a valid question.

242
EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:24:41pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Imagine seeing those moist fish lips coming at you while he grips your shoulders. Agh. I think I grossed myself out.

That’s why Melania is getting the big bucks. It’s a business deal.

243
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:26:15pm
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244
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:28:10pm

re: #242 EPR-radar

That’s why Melania is getting the big bucks. It’s a business deal.

Yanno, I have a feeling her deal sucks. Like a couple million if she bails.

245
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:28:19pm

re: #223 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

[Embedded content]

They’re in a bit of a quandary here since there seems to be no suitable venue anywhere in the United States that is NOT close to the location of some high profile gun crime.

True but given the amount of deaths that resulted from the LV shooting.

246
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:29:04pm

Got some more Fire and Fury reading in.

247
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:30:47pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Same as everyone else who does deals with her husband I guess.

Oh well Melon.

248
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:31:27pm

WaPo on Mueller to question Trump.

Mueller seeks to question Trump about Flynn and Comey departures

Iframe

By Carol D. Leonnig and Josh Dawsey January 23 at 3:51 PM

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is seeking to question President Trump in the coming weeks about his decisions to oust national security adviser Michael Flynn and FBI Director James B. Comey, according to two people familiar with his plans.

Mueller’s interest in the events that led Trump to push out Flynn and Comey indicates that his investigation is intensifying its focus on possible efforts by the president or others to obstruct or blunt the special counsel’s probe.

Trump’s attorneys have crafted some negotiating terms for the president’s interview with Mueller’s team, one that could be presented to the special counsel as soon as next week, according to the two people.

The president’s legal team hopes to provide Trump’s testimony in a hybrid form — answering some questions in a face-to-face interview and others in a written statement.

Those discussions come amid signs of stepped-up activity by the special counsel. Last week, Attorney General Jeff Sessions was interviewed for several hours by Mueller’s investigators, according to Justice Department officials.

…

more at link

249
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:35:33pm

re: #248 ObserverArt

If he agrees to face-to-face and written answers, Mueller will get the written answers first, then do the interview. And without a doubt President Goldfish will not know what his lawyers wrote for him ahead of time and purger himself in the process.

250
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:35:41pm

Well it’s about time!

MSNBC and CNN cut away from Hucka-boo-boo mid briefing.

251
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:36:20pm
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252
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:36:47pm

Interesting. Ari’s guests are saying the leak about Mueller talking to Trump must have come from inside the White House. The speculation is it may be time to prepare Trump for some reality…he IS being investigated for obstruction. So, they released the info to make Trump aware. It sounds a bit like Trump’s lawyers are starting to sweat. They know Trump makes a terrible witness.

253
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:37:10pm

Actor who played Tinky Winky on ‘Teletubbies’ dead at 52

The actor famous for playing Tinky Winky on the BBC children’s series “Teletubbies” has died at age 52.

Simon Shelton, who was a father of three, was best known for playing the purple character who always carried a red “magic” handbag.

*snip*

The character became involved in controversy thanks to reverend Jerry Falwell, who in 1999 claimed the character’s color and symbol on the top of his head were references to gay pride and were damaging children.

254
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:37:21pm

re: #251 goddamnedfrank

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Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:40:37pm

re: #232 Charles Johnson

Ewww.

For Cthulhu’s sake. Put that behind spoiler tags. I heaved.

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Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:41:18pm

GyNDz4ot+ZHxnlTinGBgK68fR2D8IcSA01XbEKT4WQrxRqOzZZm00G7NhWGWeocfMi8GneYs3jm8qHOvwpQMqkbF9UA3IHbC2Yh+05FeWwuhmnrgQ6NKcWTjlGK2dLpezAPcxP0LxFhNQ46hBL2TQzWsAefdyC8kFTomZ4i4FnCLJctEDwyN2BZFTpJqwOVKFb0JSqOLJSwTV+M8no/qU96Trd8Zy4ZqTrcH2NntUJKVMOite4bgNBTlYYT+oTCD/kVmpSBvlSNS9EG7VDILaWG94FK26Rs5L17+5w2YItybXkkv1/VOg537/QHX+numD3uDvq2DLLM7A8Mh7jIKRCUPNhXSNuYo1VBPn4aCVqD7/Pd7Wemt4IplimHAuVK0nTDg229Q7CC7zLGTilkuF2qSxfwVdo67rqmVkxcTbazGxF1z5L0Rtg==

257
KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:41:47pm

re: #252 ObserverArt

Interesting. Ari’s guests are saying the leak about Mueller talking to Trump must have come from inside the White House. The speculation is it may be time to prepare Trump for some reality…he IS being investigated for obstruction. So, they released the info to make Trump aware. It sounds a bit like Trump’s lawyers are starting to sweat. They know Trump makes a terrible witness.

Every leak in this investigation has come from the administration or those being investigated/interviewed. Mueller is a professional, the people he has working for him are professionals.

But I do love the idea that the way his subordinates have to get Trump’s attention is by getting a report on cable news, so he’ll notice it. There are a thousand Hollywood writers just screaming that they’ll never be able to write a story this good and be believable.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:44:16pm

re: #256 Bubblehead II

[Embedded content]

gDHm4UrvqYWGoEPkRPFilR15w9/KxJhuu7SCTVVLwMK3KKCuyqUAQyNaddAGa7DvNo9l1/H/K+Y=

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Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:44:37pm

re: #252 ObserverArt

Interesting. Ari’s guests are saying the leak about Mueller talking to Trump must have come from inside the White House. The speculation is it may be time to prepare Trump for some reality…he IS being investigated for obstruction. So, they released the info to make Trump aware. It sounds a bit like Trump’s lawyers are starting to sweat. They know Trump makes a terrible witness.

And what, one has to wonder, are the odds that Trump will “prepare… for some reality” by simply firing Mueller, shutting down his investigation, dismissing the whole affair as a “fake news witch-hunt” or whatever, and dare anyone to any fucking thing about it??

260
EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:46:15pm

re: #252 ObserverArt

Interesting. Ari’s guests are saying the leak about Mueller talking to Trump must have come from inside the White House. The speculation is it may be time to prepare Trump for some reality…he IS being investigated for obstruction. So, they released the info to make Trump aware. It sounds a bit like Trump’s lawyers are starting to sweat. They know Trump makes a terrible witness.

I have a vivid imagination, and I cannot conceive of a way to prevent Trump from perjuring himself if he gets questioned under oath.

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:47:18pm

re: #256 Bubblehead II

[Embedded content]

o8gdGHkKr3jWB/o4wTQ3k2QAZj2/J3b3mm1wKQzOVVAidZe2n2ZaYW+/Ox7tqWqfva/4jZyCg3IWyTtMWNn0ClVzh6Wu6TX4g0gc43M5gmvAPX0PBcVf+H+jp9zVluBHgUk4fY82BuYGsnhOnBaHjDpRwqY9tu5BmR6P5vkWpJrDSjdIJXzPeIbLvuxYRPF5Oqwq5q6eH0T6UW7i7PZyH+V0hqpKbdc0c2CvUohQNF6OMW6b6u5d/aKUnpiLLWEITxTMpJbP82DVBwu+6auQ75mZtk0LjV5278ar8TP8JmRPYPFK6vyNFRFQabld90s9/V+9CuctVbs=

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Sea Mexican!  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:49:00pm

OT:

n23oDvlObe9OcfXiEyfCse/YIDMQOpU2J4FgaY+EQU25YKBEjq3yku44Njzrmar201anIj9jSFNqxDqfbM7qGiJM1ewPWzLsv18qkvDdjQNsIumv4w/HVJpt5Bp/ZF20UlmDbSf02tp9BirRp0qQnlbgULkYUjZfIpFQ+wM5f1WgjN8QuXZApBe+AiH8AHxfZMIUPIDEvTbkNmqN2RhTLtsqy/Ed0Kw9LiBOYgr+kJgT+JR7pu86ezv7ktvKfqLU9V3y4+rCo19PdwraZFrmAi8XbUu7uhlnkXvjrrqrPw2pTyFXENpNzehjEqvFAJ/OR45wMp9LkOa9i7Tm/vVTC2w/dahdQy/5hsBCY74FeyoERJmXcBnjMTluIlFkZcqzBYs3Ei/cKyyRSKPz9dIBqQ==

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:50:35pm

re: #259 Jay C

And what, one has to wonder, are the odds that Trump will “prepare… for some reality” by simply firing Mueller, shutting down his investigation, dismissing the whole affair as a “fake news witch-hunt” or whatever, and dare anyone to any fucking thing about it??

You can never say what Trump will do. He’s been a snake his whole life. In this case, he is dealing with a ton more pressure than he ever faced in the real estate business. If he does fire Mueller, he will be damaged at least to where he probably can’t run again. If the Republicans are looking for further life of their party, it will be time to jettison The Orange Menace.

This is going to really put pressure on Mitch and Paulie now. They have a ton of work they want to do on immigration with all of America watching. Now they may be running out of time to get it done while The Orange Signature Hand is in office if it gets to the point he is really damaging them.

The Trump Best Use by Date.

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Sea Mexican!  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:51:16pm

re: #256 Bubblehead II

[Embedded content]

Zc5P3rMrmuJPjz4GfRF71pBBBgy69YgyaihiX2R6s6ernNzwghgxGQ==

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Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:52:25pm

re: #258 ObserverArt

[Embedded content]

H1zgptuvv/gbEmkml3FrWaBOdULR4bWCT/+9v71vS+UJKU1nsPw5stLrRJC3LU7uGsroHahaDeWmq4yFn1TumSIjNSH42RTn9CXgrx35AkJHzj8KG3gv+PrDXA6cxqSA0tfGxaTvA16q2I8IprSQ5qQS3tVW8MLI3Hb4arqU34cxJk3TOjaaIpZe5ayihXOX6rn+KhtdGq7W9u895F+tnyCUuD8KnoTbI0WwEygRALI0dfIQ424ETw==

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Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:53:25pm

re: #260 EPR-radar

I have a vivid imagination, and I cannot conceive of a way to prevent Trump from perjuring himself if he gets questioned under oath.

If the Trump attorneys require all questions be submitted in advance and answered in writing, he could avoid perjury in those circumstances.

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GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:54:21pm

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GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:55:19pm

re: #266 Hecuba’s daughter

If the Trump attorneys require all questions be submitted in advance and answered in writing, he could avoid perjury in those circumstances.

I think he’d screw that up too.

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Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:58:38pm

re: #268 GlutenFreeJesus

I think he’d screw that up too.

Except he wouldn’t be the one responding to the questions; it would be his attorneys, who would craft the most ambiguous responses.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 3:58:42pm

re: #266 Hecuba’s daughter

If the Trump attorneys require all questions be submitted in advance and answered in writing, he could avoid perjury in those circumstances.

They can require. Mueller can refuse. If there is a subpoena that he be face to face for the examination he will have to refuse a lawful order on some grounds. It will all look like he has something to hide. Especially since he was all cock-sure about he has had nothing to do with any of it, and said he had no problem being interviewed.

He has talked himself into a jam. Orange Marmalade.

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Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:01:27pm

re: #261 William Lewis

[Embedded content]

dk5ihamZZ5HNvTnDAtyURU1lSrjjZxQDhvIWuspcIHQqk+Kg/J+p7A==

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Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:01:41pm
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Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:02:58pm

re: #270 ObserverArt

They can require. Mueller can refuse. If there is a subpoena that he be face to face for the examination he will have to refuse a lawful order on some grounds. It will all look like he has something to hide. Especially since he was all cock-sure about he has had nothing to do with any of it, and said he had no problem being interviewed.

He has talked himself into a jam. Orange Marmalade.

He has escaped repercussions for his ill-behavior his entire life; why think that this perfect record won’t continue? The cult of 45 will accept any type of evasion or dishonesty.

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KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:04:58pm

re: #270 ObserverArt

They can require. Mueller can refuse. If there is a subpoena that he be face to face for the examination he will have to refuse a lawful order on some grounds. It will all look like he has something to hide. Especially since he was all cock-sure about he has had nothing to do with any of it, and said he had no problem being interviewed.

He has talked himself into a jam. Orange Marmalade.

Let’s also not forget that what they ultimately got Bill Clinton for was lying under oath during a deposition. That precedent is going to come back around to bite the GOP in the taint.

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Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:04:58pm

re: #264 Sea Mexican!

[Embedded content]

aX/dht9wndCj2eAvmGI82Sebxm99SRjsyZa+zA/pJHLrb54K1r9yBzKG69qb0gayJG8HVx9ULwU0jHhTqhv2M2IkhunuOro8qKo4Yx4hiYSKYopfKDZyJxARcB8NtPtoyKieuWCMbp5NpeFeVt10W/p8IYfV2RwfiPOPPkwgusInmniVFxeZ9nt/hjCTA7GZTFWMpwrKkiV5KHRAYKZ5gw==

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:05:23pm

re: #273 Hecuba’s daughter

He has escaped repercussions for his ill-behavior his entire life; why think that this perfect record won’t continue? The cult of 45 will accept any type of evasion or dishonesty.

That is all well and good. But Donny is in a very different world now than he has ever been. Sure he got elected. Sure his true believers will be true believers.

And then there is the law.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:08:03pm

re: #273 Hecuba’s daughter

He has escaped repercussions for his ill-behavior his entire life; why think that this perfect record won’t continue? The cult of 45 will accept any type of evasion or dishonesty.

Mueller won’t.

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ckkatz  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:08:32pm

One thing to note on the Trump FBI interview. Which Chris Hayes pointed it out on Ari Melber’s show this evening. Trump is extremely experienced in this kind of interview. He has been through it multiple times successfully (as in avoiding prosecution) and has had excellent legal assistance.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:08:33pm

MSNBC is showing a message about Chuck Schumer being on Rachel Maddow this evening.

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KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:10:13pm

Maybe I’m being naive, but my guess is still that if Trump fired Mueller, there’s still enough reasonable people in the GOP that they’d turn on him… if only for self-preservation.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:10:21pm

re: #260 EPR-radar

I have a vivid imagination, and I cannot conceive of a way to prevent Trump from perjuring himself if he gets questioned under oath.

Trump will never talk to Mueller’s investigators or testify under oath, except to plead the Fifth.

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GlutenFreeJesus  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:10:52pm

re: #273 Hecuba’s daughter

He has escaped repercussions for his ill-behavior his entire life; why think that this perfect record won’t continue? The cult of 45 will accept any type of evasion or dishonesty.

He’s got the whole Republican party behind him.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:12:14pm

re: #280 KGxvi

Maybe I’m being naive, but my guess is still that if Trump fired Mueller, there’s still enough reasonable people in the GOP that they’d turn on him… if only for self-preservation.

They will knot their brows and express their concern. The voters then have to toss them out of office. The odds of the Democrats winning the House improved considerably with the Pa Supreme Court’s ruling that Pennsylvania’s gerrymandered congressional districts have to be redrawn.

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Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:13:28pm

You can find anything on the internet. This is a pristine snapshot of N 6814C, the Slick Airways DC-6 in which my family and I returned from Japan in 1960.

I came across some stuff about the trip recently in some old papers and realized that I did not have a photo of the plane itself. I did have the tail number though (from my dad’s notes). I deployed my Google-fu and found this pic on Ebay in France. I paid $4.35 US including shipping (such as it is) and the pic has duly arrived. I also learned that this aircraft was delivered in 1956, changed hands several times and was scrapped in Colorado in 1978.

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Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:13:44pm

re: #277 Big Beautiful Door

Mueller won’t.

Hence my comment #259: remember, this is a Chief Executive whose main “preparation” for running for the highest office in the country was starring in a reality-TV show designed to make him look like a Great Hero Tycoon: and where anything unflattering could be neatly edited out.

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KGxvi  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:14:23pm

re: #283 Big Beautiful Door

They will knot their brows and express their concern. The voters then have to toss them out of office. The odds of the Democrats winning the House improved considerably with the Pa Supreme Court’s ruling that Pennsylvania’s gerrymandered congressional districts have to be redrawn.

I keep going back to Nixon and the Watergate tapes. Maybe it’s just too different an era, maybe the wingularity has distorted too much. But for my own sanity, I feel like there has to be a breaking point in this.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:16:45pm

re: #278 ckkatz

One thing to note on the Trump FBI interview. Which Chris Hayes pointed it out on Ari Melber’s show this evening. Trump is extremely experienced in this kind of interview. He has been through it multiple times successfully (as in avoiding prosecution) and has had excellent legal assistance.

But has he had his people under indictments and deals with a special prosecutor before? Has he and his lawyers never not known what those people and others have already told Mueller?

I think there is a large difference in what Trump has faced regarding his past law issues and what he is facing now.

He is the President of the United States.

There are more than Mueller interested in what Trump does from here on out. Congress. Other courts and AGs, the press, The Democrats. The Republican Party.

He has never been in this position.

I’ll go with an Uncle Joe B. quote. “This is a big fucking deal!”

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:16:56pm

I’m amazed at the number of people who think the Dow hitting ‘all time highs’ under Trump is so special. The Dow has hit its highest point EVER under every single President at least since Carter.

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Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:17:16pm

re: #191 SteveMcGriftFlynnComey… …corruptemoligate RN

It doesn’t matter whether Trump runs or not. Whatever (R) runs, they have to lose.

Period.

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meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:18:22pm

re: #254 goddamnedfrank

Wha

291
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:21:04pm

re: #211 mmmirele

Don’t forget that there are STILL eminent domain lawsuits from the FENCE law in 2006.

292
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:22:28pm
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MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:22:35pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Yanno, I have a feeling her deal sucks. Like a couple million if she bails.

I’d bail before having to fuck that pig. I just can’t even.

294
Sea Mexican!  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:22:51pm

re: #267 GlutenFreeJesus

That’s one of the saddest images I’ve seen in a while…

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Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:24:32pm

re: #242 EPR-radar

That’s why Melania is getting the big bucks. It’s a business deal.

With a NDA.

296
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:24:39pm

Back from my water class, fuming at NPR’s Morning Edition this morning. (I do not receive NPR except when I am in my car - we are too far from the local station.)

They gave an explicit white supremacist organisation air time to comment on Trump’s alleged immigration plan, with no context what the organisation represents.
——- ——- ——-
I just commented to NPR’s Morning Edition:

Note: The local NPR station (KTNE Alliance, NE) does not appear in the dropdown. I used the only one offered for my Zip Code.

This morning I listened to NPR for the first time in weeks (I can only receive the so-called local station in my car).

There was an article about President Trump’s position on immigration, which used the racist dog whistle “chain migration” repeatedly, without context that the term is a racist characterization of “family-sponsored immigration.”

Worse, to follow that article, Morning Edition brought on a spokeswoman from the Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-immigration hate group whose reports have been widely debunked from organizations such as the CATO Institute and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

splcenter.org

Morning Edition offered no counter to the spokeswoman from CIS, nor did it offer any context about this hate group.

For a radio programme which purports to give you the “behind the scenes” information about what is in the news, I am extremely disappointed that NPR allowed the white nationalist CIS founded by John Tanton any airtime at all, particularly without context of who this group is. It is not much different than the Ku Klux Klan, but much better funded.

Do better.

297
Kragar  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:25:12pm

My first Wed Wose!

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Kilroy was here  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:25:14pm

re: #292 JordanRules

Cuz I had to look it up…

cir*cum*lo*cu*tion
ˌsərkəmˌləˈkyo͞oSH(ə)n
noun
the use of many words where fewer would do, especially in a deliberate attempt to be vague or evasive.

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Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:25:25pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Yanno, I have a feeling her deal sucks. Like a couple million ifwhen she bails.

300
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:28:27pm

re: #298 Kilroy was here

It’s a fun word!

Always such generous and helpful lizards at this full service site!

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Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:30:20pm

re: #288 Blind Frog Belly White

I’m amazed at the number of people who think the Dow hitting ‘all time highs’ under Trump is so special. The Dow has hit its highest point EVER under every single President at least since Carter.

Trump excels at framing everything to his advantage. Other Presidents were far more modest in claiming success for economic progress that may not have been directly attributed to their actions. You have to have a big ego to think yourself qualified to be President but most of them were not ignorant ill-prepared sociopaths; Trump repeats the mantra that the soaring Stock Market is due solely to measures he took; and those with a healthy level of investments are pleased. There are many people who are rejoicing in their rising 401k’s

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:32:05pm

re: #299 Ace Rothstein

Nah. Remember comparative ages. She can outlast his lard encrusted ass.

303
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:33:47pm

re: #302 William Lewis

I wish you everlasting karma for your use of “lard encrusted ass.”

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Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:35:14pm

re: #301 Hecuba’s daughter

There are many people who are rejoicing in their rising 401k’s

Until the next crash, which is going to happen within eighteen months.

305
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:35:19pm

re: #297 Kragar

My first Wed Wose!

[Embedded content]

I swear lefty nuts can be as obtuse as right wing ones. Manning imo clearly has judgment issues imo.

306
MsJ  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:37:43pm

re: #280 KGxvi

Maybe I’m being naive, but my guess is still that if Trump fired Mueller, there’s still enough reasonable people in the GOP that they’d turn on him… if only for self-preservation.

Nope. Nary a one.

307
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:38:46pm

re: #306 MsJ

Nope. Nary a one.

In fact, I think they’d staunchly defend it. Mueller has become hated by rank and file Republicans.

308
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:40:49pm

Am I being too cynical to think that even if there is overwhelming evidence Trump obstructed justice as well as money laundering, etc. and Mueller made recommendations for indictments that the GOP would still say “Nah, we good.”?

309
scottslemmons  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:41:13pm

re: #306 MsJ

Nope. Nary a one.

Exactamundo.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:44:13pm

re: #292 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Exactly what I have been saying. Trump will never be interviewed by Mueller’s investigators, and he will never testify under oath.

311
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:46:34pm

re: #54 FormerDirtDart

If this guy wants to run again for his seat, he needs a ritual disembowelling (with votes).

As I understand it, his former staffer is suing for wrongful termination. I hope his wife sues for divorce with prejudice as well.

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Ace-o-aces  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:48:37pm
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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:49:03pm

re: #308 Ace Rothstein

Am I being too cynical to think that even if there is overwhelming evidence Trump obstructed justice as well as money laundering, etc. and Mueller made recommendations for indictments that the GOP would still say “Nah, we good.”?

However he can go ahead and indict Ivanka, Jared, and the boys, along with everyone else in the Administration involved in collusion, money laundering or obstruction of justice.

314
scottslemmons  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:49:36pm

Off-topic — Michigan State’s reactions to the Nassar scandal could be as bad as or worse than Penn State’s.

315
Eclectic Cyborg  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:50:04pm

re: #313 Big Beautiful Door

I’d bet good money Ivanka is going to be his next CoS.

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:50:08pm

re: #70 Blind Frog Belly White

When I saw the words ‘Lip service’, I thought we were still talking about Noot and Drusilla, or whatever the fuck her name is - that Bird of Prey who married him most recently?

re: #75 Blind Frog Belly White

Calpurnia?

Callipygia?

Calypso?

Caligula?

Ambassador to the Holy See.

317
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:51:13pm

re: #313 Big Beautiful Door

However he can go ahead and indict Ivanka, Jared, and the boys, along with everyone else in the Administration involved in collusion, money laundering or obstruction of justice.

And then Portly Pinochet can pardon all of them.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:52:36pm

re: #312 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Pro choice, Patrick Bateman cosplayer.

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Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:53:41pm

re: #315 Eclectic Cyborg

I’d bet good money Ivanka is going to be his next CoS.

It may come down to that, because who in their right mind would want that job?

320
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:54:55pm

re: #313 Big Beautiful Door

However he can go ahead and indict Ivanka, Jared, and the boys, along with everyone else in the Administration involved in collusion, money laundering or obstruction of justice.

At that point is Trump not indicted also? He’s the damn President…head of the “family.” Just the look of all that is damning.

Hello RICO.

321
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:55:29pm

re: #317 Ace Rothstein

And then Portly Pinochet can pardon all of them.

Great, then they can all be compelled to testify against him when the Democrats gain control of the House and start a real congressional investigation.

322
Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:55:49pm

re: #312 Ace-o-aces

Duckworth will have no problem voting for policies which help poor children which is something that Conservatives don’t do willingly. Her belief that children are precious extends beyond fetuses.

323
Big Beautiful Door  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:56:56pm

re: #320 ObserverArt

At that point is Trump not indicted also? He’s the damn President…head of the “family.” Just the look of all that is damning.

Hello RICO.

There is a constitutional question as to whether President’s can be indicted while in office. They are usually impeached instead. Trump would be an “unindicted co-conspirator.”

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:58:01pm

You’re pro choice and excited about having a child? You hypocrite.//

325
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:58:12pm
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Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:58:39pm

re: #312 Ace-o-aces

I read the replies there. It’s just…christ. They really think all liberals and dems are baby eating psychopaths or something.

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Ace-o-aces  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:59:29pm
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Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 4:59:59pm

re: #325 JordanRules

But Trump and his ilk want less of his type from sh*thole countries and more White folk from Norway. **rolls eyes**

329
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:00:04pm

re: #326 Citizen K

I read the replies there. It’s just…christ. They really think all liberals and dems are baby eating psychopaths or something.

They don’t understand what pro choice means.

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Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:01:13pm

re: #329 HappyWarrior

They don’t understand what pro choice means.

They don’t even understand what ‘pro-life’ means.

331
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:01:39pm

re: #323 Big Beautiful Door

There is a constitutional question as to whether President’s can be indicted while in office. They are usually impeached instead. Trump would be an “unindicted co-conspirator.”

I meant indicted by implication. I know he can’t legally as a president. But who all is going to accept a presidency that has it’s entire main staff and other principals indicted? That hopefully will lead to an impeachment. That would still be an indictment in the second main definition of the word.

That really is my point. Call it the public court that issues the indictment. That is where politics is played.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:01:50pm

re: #325 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Awesome story.

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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:04:17pm
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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:04:36pm

re: #327 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

FINAL??? WTF?!?

Aw frack, I guess Always Coming Home finally made it one last time.

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:04:44pm

re: #236 Jay C

I’m surprised they haven’t blamed him for putting solar panels on the WH roof: thus giving the Chinese bad ideas……

Well, one of Ronald Reagan’s first orders was to rip them off the roof.

336
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:06:11pm

re: #333 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I see that view whenever a prominent liberal woman gets pregnant. It’s fucking patronizing as hell not to mention creepy. Senator Duckworth is already a mother. I very much doubt this Patrick Bateman cosplay player is a father and from what I’ve seen him post, I’m glad he’s not.

337
Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:07:01pm

re: #336 HappyWarrior

I see that view whenever a prominent liberal woman gets pregnant. It’s fucking patronizing as hell not to mention creepy. Senator Duckworth is already a mother. I very much doubt this Patrick Bateman cosplay player is a father and from what I’ve seen him post, I’m glad he’s not.

He looks like a 10th grader trying to dress up as John Wick and instead looking like a Slytherin extra.

338
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:07:09pm

re: #326 Citizen K

I read the replies there. It’s just…christ. They really think all liberals and dems are baby eating psychopaths or something.

I particularly enjoyed the one that said abortions should be mandatory for all pro-choice politicians.

339
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:07:44pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

Yanno, I have a feeling her deal sucks. Like a couple million if she bails.

Or she can’t bail because she is Trump’s handler for the SVR. /conspiracy

340
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:07:45pm

re: #232 Charles Johnson

What happened to his chin?

341
majii  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:08:48pm

re: #12 Barefoot Grin

“Tom Cotton, asshole. But I repeat myself…”

Cotton isn’t just an asshole, he’s a cancerous dick.

342
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:09:55pm

re: #249 KGxvi

If he agrees to face-to-face and written answers, Mueller will get the written answers first, then do the interview. And without a doubt President Goldfish will not know what his lawyers wrote for him ahead of time and purger himself in the process.

Trump will never agree to be interviewed unless it’s by Sean Hannity.

343
steve_davis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:10:22pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Bataan Death March

Ben Skarden’s a member of my church. A 100 years old and survivor of the Bataan Death March. Still walks the 8 mile reenactment they do every year in, I think, Arizona.

344
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:10:27pm

Presler (ThePersistence) would make a great extra in a vampire film. I don’t think he even needs makeup. Just get him a cape.

345
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:10:34pm

re: #312 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

There are so many insane replies to that about what the brainwashed right imagine about Liberals. So many on the right belong in mental hospitals at this point. They’ve worked up fantasy-based hate of good Americans, that can easily lead to the end of America as we know it.

346
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:10:47pm
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I foresee a new slogan:

Lou Dobbs - More insanity than Hannity!

347
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:10:55pm

The only Christopher we acknowledge is Wallace

lol

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:12:14pm

re: #326 Citizen K

I read the replies there. It’s just…christ. They really thing all liberals and dems are baby eating psychopaths or something.

They’re completely delusional. Their fake news and preachers have been feeding them this for decades.

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JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:12:26pm

re: #347 Stanley Sea

LOL!!!!!!!

350
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:12:52pm

re: #345 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

There are so many insane replies to that about what the brainwashed right imagine about Liberals. So many on the right belong in mental hospitals at this point. They’ve worked up fantasy-based hate of good Americans, that can easily lead to the end of America as we know it.

What I love about what they believe about us is how much they contradict themselves. We’re either ultra violent or a bunch of wusses who just eat kale and salad and not “real men” like they are, you know guys who get triggered by coffee cups and transgendered people using the bathroom they feel comfortable with.

351
Ace-o-aces  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:13:08pm

re: #334 William Lewis

FINAL??? WTF?!?

Aw frack, I guess Always Coming Home finally made it one last time.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

352
Citizen K  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:14:37pm

re: #350 HappyWarrior

What I love about what they believe about us is how much they contradict themselves. We’re either ultra violent or a bunch of wusses who just eat kale and salad and not “real men” like they are, you know guys who get triggered by coffee cups and transgendered people using the bathroom they feel comfortable with.

YYyyyyeeep.

353
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:15:40pm

From the replies!!

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:15:58pm

re: #259 Jay C

And what, one has to wonder, are the odds that Trump will “prepare… for some reality” by simply firing Mueller, shutting down his investigation, dismissing the whole affair as a “fake news witch-hunt” or whatever, and dare anyone to any fucking thing about it??

Attorney General Schneiderman of New York can follow up on the state charges.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:15:58pm

re: #352 Citizen K

YYyyyyeeep.

Tried pointing that out to e a conservative friend but woosh, over his head.

356
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:17:25pm

re: #334 William Lewis

FINAL??? WTF?!?

Aw frack, I guess Always Coming Home finally made it one last time.

I had the same reaction, highlighted her name, and did a search. Bummer.

357
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:17:32pm
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Interesting observation. We focus on how creepy it is for the woman to have some sleazy bastard doing these things, and yet there’s a whole level of creepiness that we’re not even discussing.

358
lawhawk  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:19:05pm

Trump’s dealmaking is really on display today.

Trump’s wall falls apart as humpty dumpty can’t figure out how to strike a deal with Schumer.

Trump refused to cut a deal on TPP, so the rest of the world moved on without the US.

The US is left with nothing, and Trump flailing around about how he’s the dealmaker. He’s busy claiming he’s doing more for the US. The reality is that he’s left the US weaker economically and losing economic clout because Trump simply doesn’t know or care.

China and Russia are more than happy to fill the vacuum of international leadership Trump’s leaving in his wake.

And that’s not even the worst thing Trump’s done today.

His radio silence on yet another school mass shooting is deafening. 2 dead. 14+ injured. White guy in custody as the shooter. The GOP and NRA are silent. Trump is silent.

We know why: it wasn’t a minority or a Muslim who did the killing. If it were, Trump would have repeatedly tweeted about a Muslim ban, or Trump would have complained about crime in Chicago (his go-to excuse for crime).

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:19:15pm

re: #357 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

Interesting observation. We focus on how creepy it is for the woman to have some sleazy bastard doing these things, and yet there’s a whole level of creepiness that we’re not even discussing.

Discussed this years ago but it amazed me that spousal rape laws were finally put on the books in my lifetime.

360
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:19:51pm

re: #331 ObserverArt

I meant indicted by implication. I know he can’t legally as a president. But who all is going to accept a presidency that has it’s entire main staff and other principals indicted? That hopefully will lead to an impeachment. That would still be an indictment in the second main definition of the word.

That really is my point. Call it the public court that issues the indictment. That is where politics is played.

Actually, he can be indicted as President. There is no clause in the Constitution that relieves the President of the responsibility to follow the law.

The President Can Be Indicted - Just Not by Mueller (Goes to the Washington Post)

First paragraph:

Ronald Rotunda is a professor at Chapman University’s Fowler School of Law.

Nearly two decades ago, then-independent counsel Kenneth Starr asked me to evaluate whether a federal grand jury could indict a sitting president — in that case, Bill Clinton. My answer — that such an action would be permissible — was recently unearthed in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from the New York Times, and it may have relevance for a new special counsel and the current president.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:20:32pm

re: #350 HappyWarrior

What I love about what they believe about us is how much they contradict themselves. We’re either ultra violent or a bunch of wusses who just eat kale and salad and not “real men” like they are, you know guys who get triggered by coffee cups and transgendered people using the bathroom they feel comfortable with.

“Nobody had a right to not be offended, Snowflake Libtard! But I do.”

362
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:22:17pm

re: #359 HappyWarrior

Discussed this years ago but it amazed me that spousal rape laws were finally put on the books in my lifetime.

And you’re just a youngster!

It’s worth noting, however, that even though it’s the law, it’s not a universally held belief in America.

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:23:14pm

re: #359 HappyWarrior

Discussed this years ago but it amazed me that spousal rape laws were finally put on the books in my lifetime.

Nebraska was the first state to throw out the spousal exception, in 1976.

364
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:23:58pm

re: #350 HappyWarrior

What I love about what they believe about us is how much they contradict themselves. We’re either ultra violent or a bunch of wusses who just eat kale and salad and not “real men” like they are, you know guys who get triggered by coffee cups and transgendered people using the bathroom they feel comfortable with.

They believe that Paris Lees should be in a men’s room. (link is slightly before she appears)

BBC Question Time 31 October 2013 (31/10/13) St Austell FULL EPISODE

And that Buck Angel should be in the ladies.

Buck Angel’s Story | True Trans | Bonus Clip

I don’t see that going well.

365
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:24:20pm

re: #362 Blind Frog Belly White

And you’re just a youngster!

It’s worth noting, however, that even though it’s the law, it’s not a universally held belief in America.

By my own state senator no less. This is the guy that Andy McCabe’s wife Jill ran against and Trump thinks it was so outrageous that then Governor McAuliffe donated to her campaign.
huffingtonpost.com

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:24:54pm

re: #363 Anymouse 🌹

Nebraska was the first state to throw out the spousal exception, in 1976.

38 years into my Dad’s parents marriage.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:26:06pm

re: #364 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

They believe that Paris Lees should be in a men’s room.

[Embedded content]

I don’t see that going well.

They only think about transwomen hence why they always talk about “men in dresses.” Saw a clip of a transman who is serving in the AF. It’s all just so stupid and bigoted.

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:26:34pm

re: #366 HappyWarrior

38 years into my Dad’s parents marriage.

Are you trying to say I’m old? That was one year before I joined the Navy.

369
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:27:50pm

Funny thing is that the laws and/or court decisions that make Conservatives complain about having their freedoms taken away are almost exclusively ones that guarantee the freedom of other people without actually limiting their freedom.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:28:09pm

re: #368 Anymouse 🌹

Are you trying to say I’m old? That was one year before I joined the Navy.

I’m actually commenting on the fact that my dad’s parents marriage was about 90% into it when those laws were implemented. Dad’s Dad died in 1979. Not a lot of people my age have a grandparent born in the Taft presidency :).

371
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:29:05pm

re: #369 Blind Frog Belly White

Funny thing is that the laws and/or court decisions that make Conservatives complain about having their freedoms taken away are almost exclusively ones that guarantee the freedom of other people without actually limiting their freedom.

Same sex marriage, Interracial marriage, Banning forced school prayer, birth control, all come to mind immediately here.

372
lawhawk  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:29:51pm

re: #360 Anymouse 🌹

Rotunda wrote the book on constitutional law (I have a copy laying around somewhere).

Literally. He wrote the book (and a multivolume treatise too).

He also wrote an opinion for Ken Starr during the Whitewater investigations that basically stated no one, not even the president is above the law.

In other words, Trump’s hurtling towards a world full of shite.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:30:13pm

I like to joke that the conservatives who insist you can’t pray in a public school have never had a 7th period Math pop quiz on a Friday. And yep that happened to me a lot in seventh grade because my Math teacher loved pop quizzes that year. One of the toughest classes I ever took by far.

374
Woods Witch  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:31:22pm

Um….

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:31:39pm

re: #370 HappyWarrior

I’m actually commenting on the fact that my dad’s parents marriage was about 90% into it when those laws were implemented. Dad’s Dad died in 1979. Not a lot of people my age have a grandparent born in the Taft presidency :).

All my grandparents were all born in the Theodore Roosevelt Presidency, though two were born in Poland.

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jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:31:43pm

re: #312 Ace-o-aces

It will be neat to watch her unborn child grow in her belly & serve as a reminder that life is precious.

He’s not too clear on which lady parts are for what.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:32:11pm

re: #371 HappyWarrior

Same sex marriage, Interracial marriage, Banning forced school prayer, birth control, all come to mind immediately here.

Like I’ve said every time I see people saying things like ‘throwing God out of schools’ - Must not be much of a god if you can throw him out that easily.

The Hulk, of course, said it more concisely…

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:33:10pm

re: #375 Anymouse 🌹

All my grandparents were all born in the Theodore Roosevelt Presidency, though two were born in Poland.

I stand corrected. I have my presidential dates wrong. Things you learn here. Two of my grandparents were born in the Taft presidency.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:33:25pm

re: #374 Woods Witch

Um….

[Embedded content]

Trump shows he has no idea what he’s talking about whenever he talks about Dr. Jill McCabe. The state senate here has been divided for years and she was running against a kook, whom I just mentioned above. Of course McAuliffe was going to donate to her campaign. There was no scandal there at all. BTW aside from being a spousal rape denier, Dick Black has literally wrote letters to Assad praising him. It makes me ill that he’s my state senator in Richmond.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:34:15pm

re: #375 Anymouse 🌹

All my grandparents were all born in the Theodore Roosevelt Presidency, though two were born in Poland.

Goes to show you how crazy generations are. I’m descended from a lot of youngest children so even though I turn 30 1/2 tomorrow, I have a great grandparent born before Graham invented the telephone.

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jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:34:37pm
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:35:09pm

re: #381 jaunte

[Embedded content]

It’s pathetic.

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jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:35:10pm
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:35:56pm

Trump’s got a lot of nerve to complain about Dr. McCabe’s candidacy when he nominated the Senate Majority Leader’s wife for a cabinet position.

385
William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:36:31pm

re: #356 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Yeah…

“Only in silence the word,
Only in dark the light,
Only in dying life:
Bright the hawk’s flight
On the empty sky.

—The Creation of Éa”

“To light a candle is to cast a shadow.”

― Ursula K. Le Guin

386
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:36:53pm

My wife’s grandparents were born 1 in Grover Cleveland’s first term, one during Benjamin Harrison, 1 in Grover Cleveland’s second term, and 1 under William McKinley.

387
The Major  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:37:04pm

re: #384 HappyWarrior

Trump’s got a lot of nerve to complain about Dr. McCabe’s candidacy when he nominated the Senate Majority Leader’s wife for a cabinet position.

And I’d bet that pillow talk has got to be a doozy…

388
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:37:12pm

re: #382 HappyWarrior

Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of pieces about how people should get a balance of information from a variety of sources, but the level of ridiculous, unbelievable propaganda emanating from the right for the last year makes it a fairly pointless quest.

389
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:37:33pm

re: #387 The Major

And I’d bet that pillow talk has got to be a doozy…

I bet.

390
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:38:55pm

re: #387 The Major

And I’d bet that pillow talk has got to be a doozy…

You don’t hear too much about Chao which is curious considering Trump was supposed to be doing a lot to improve infrastructure.

391
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:39:52pm

re: #388 jaunte

Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of pieces about how people should get a balance of information from a variety of sources, but the level of ridiculous, unbelievable propaganda emanating from the right for the last year makes it a fairly pointless quest.

I saw a recent acquaintance I made spouting out the Obama gay coke lover shit. Just wow.

392
Woods Witch  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:40:29pm

re: #379 HappyWarrior

Trump shows he has no idea what he’s talking about whenever he talks about Dr. Jill McCabe. The state senate here has been divided for years and she was running against a kook, whom I just mentioned above. Of course McAuliffe was going to donate to her campaign. There was no scandal there at all. BTW aside from being a spousal rape denier, Dick Black has literally wrote letters to Assad praising him. It makes me ill that he’s my state senator in Richmond.

All true. What caught my attention was that Trump actually asked McCabe who he voted for. But I should expect that from the orange one. He expects nothing less than complete loyality

393
ckkatz  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:40:47pm

re: #287 ObserverArt

But has he had his people under indictments and deals with a special prosecutor before? Has he and his lawyers never not known what those people and others have already told Mueller?

I think there is a large difference in what Trump has faced regarding his past law issues and what he is facing now.

He is the President of the United States.

There are more than Mueller interested in what Trump does from here on out. Congress. Other courts and AGs, the press, The Democrats. The Republican Party.

He has never been in this position.

I’ll go with an Uncle Joe B. quote. “This is a big fucking deal!”

Sorry to take so long to respond. I had a cat demanding to be fed and petted… And I was the only staff available.

I agree with you. I also would like to see Trump legally halted before he destroys our republic.

While I hope that Mueller can do this, I am just not feeling that Mueller is the “Deus Ex Machina”.

I hope that I am wrong.

394
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:41:22pm

re: #392 Woods Witch

All true. What caught my attention was that Trump actually asked McCabe who he voted for. But I should expect that from the orange one. He expects nothing less than complete loyality

It’s sort of the total opposite of Lincoln’s Team of Rivals.

395
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:41:33pm

re: #391 HappyWarrior

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that Republicans in 2018 would be attacking the FBI I’d have thought they’d lost their minds.

396
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:42:19pm

re: #391 HappyWarrior

I saw a recent acquaintance I made spouting out the Obama gay coke lover shit. Just wow.

I have an uncle that believes that crazy shit. He also believes that Obama killed his mother (my grandmother) by not treating her properly so she would die faster to get her off of Medicare.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:42:22pm

re: #381 jaunte

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Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:42:44pm

re: #395 jaunte

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that Republicans in 2018 would be attacking the FBI I’d have thought they’d lost their minds.

And here we are.

399
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:42:46pm

“We’re not attacking the FBI, we just want to purge it and install party loyalists.”

400
lawhawk  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:43:46pm

re: #391 HappyWarrior

All the same right wingers who are spouting off about how the Obamas have a fake marriage and gleefully point to National Enquirer stories about the Obama’s sham marriage or other domestic woes, seem to have taken a powder when it comes to the fact that Melania and Donny ignored their anniversary. Rather an odd thing to do.

This wouldn’t be much of an issue except for the fact that these people caterwauled all over the Obama marriage and are silent when there’s actual evidence, paper trail, and payments showing that Trump was cheating on Melania just months after giving birth.

401
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:09pm

re: #395 jaunte

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that Republicans in 2018 would be attacking the FBI I’d have thought they’d lost their minds.

Travel back to the early 50s and tell McCarthy that his actions will lead to the Republican party embracing Russia’s interference in our political process.

402
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:10pm

re: #388 jaunte

Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of pieces about how people should get a balance of information from a variety of sources, but the level of ridiculous, unbelievable propaganda emanating from the right for the last year makes it a fairly pointless quest.

Like that NPR piece I heard this morning I wrote upthread about interviewing a white supremacist organisation as if it is some sort of mainstream think tank, even though they’ve been taken apart by everyone (including NPR last year)?

403
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:25pm

re: #395 jaunte

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that Republicans in 2018 would be attacking the FBI I’d have thought they’d lost their minds.

A couple of years ago, we could already see that the Republicans were losing their minds from propaganda and mistaking abortion for grinding up babies. The lawlessness we’re seeing now should be no surprise.

404
FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:29pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:44pm

re: #392 Woods Witch

All true. What caught my attention was that Trump actually asked McCabe who he voted for. But I should expect that from the orange one. He expects nothing less than complete loyality

Also, he recognizes no limits to his behavior - not custom, not law, not propriety.

406
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:44:45pm

re: #395 jaunte

If someone had told me a couple of years ago that Republicans in 2018 would be attacking the FBI I’d have thought they’d lost their minds.

While at the same time attacking Democrats for hating cops.

407
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:45:30pm

I’m going to keep being surprised; I think it helps you stay connected to what’s normal.

408
lawhawk  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:45:34pm

And now for something completely different:

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:45:43pm

re: #400 lawhawk

All the same right wingers who are spouting off about how the Obamas have a fake marriage and gleefully point to National Enquirer stories about the Obama’s sham marriage or other domestic woes, seem to have taken a powder when it comes to the fact that Melania and Donny ignored their anniversary. Rather an odd thing to do.

This wouldn’t be much of an issue except for the fact that these people caterwauled all over the Obama marriage and are silent when there’s actual evidence, paper trail, and payments showing that Trump was cheating on Melania just months after giving birth.

These people are hopeless politically. I’ve given up any hope of a political dialogue with some of my friends and aquaintences because they believe some kooky shit.

410
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:47:04pm

re: #388 jaunte

Recently I’ve been seeing a lot of pieces about how people should get a balance of information from a variety of sources, but the level of ridiculous, unbelievable propaganda emanating from the right for the last year makes it a fairly pointless quest.

It’s like John Cole’s comment about bipartisanship - ” Imagine trying to negotiate an agreement on dinner plans with your date, and you suggest Italian and she states her preference would be a meal of tire rims and anthrax.”

411
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:47:15pm

re: #404 FormerDirtDart

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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:48:09pm

re: #407 jaunte

I’m going to keep being surprised; I think it helps you stay connected to what’s normal.

Surprised and/or angry. Either one keeps you sane.

413
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:48:21pm

Well I can’t be shocked that they’re attacking the FBI. They attacked the Army in the McCarthy years too.

414
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:48:33pm

re: #404 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

It truly is sad to watch the elderly slip into dementia.

/

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ckkatz  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:49:10pm

re: #292 JordanRules

Ianal, but I very much hope that metroadlib is correct. I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing Trump nailed to the figurative legal barn door.

416
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:49:33pm

re: #396 Ace Rothstein

I have an uncle that believes that crazy shit. He also believes that Obama killed his mother (my grandmother) by not treating her properly so she would die faster to get her off of Medicare.

I read that as Obama’s mother was your grandmother and your uncle’s mother. When I read that aloud to my wife, she said the same. I then read that a bit more closely over the unclear antecedent to the pronouns “my” and “his.”

417
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:49:37pm

re: #414 Targetpractice

It truly is sad to watch the elderly slip into dementia.

/

I remember Dobbs in the Bush years. Sad to say that my one grandpa sorta liked his anti-illegal rhetoric but he went completely bonkers in the Obama years.

418
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:50:15pm

re: #414 Targetpractice

It truly is sad to watch the elderly slip into dementia.

/

The last time I looked Dobbs had the highest rated show on FBN.

419
Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:50:52pm

re: #417 HappyWarrior

I remember Dobbs in the Bush years. Sad to say that my one grandpa sorta liked his anti-illegal rhetoric but he went completely bonkers in the Obama years.

There’s a lot of that going around.

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Kragar  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:50:58pm
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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:51:00pm
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jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:51:19pm
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The “values voter” was never interested in improving their own behavior, only in controlling others.

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Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:51:48pm

These monthly subscription fees are adding up.

Of course I should renew my membership (lapsed for a year now) with PBS SoCal.

Of course I MUST renew my membership 5.00/mo to continue watching Victoria.

424
mmmirele  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:52:59pm

re: #327 Ace-o-aces

She left us a whole lifetime of work, most of which is far more profound than a 280 character tweet. :)

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jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:54:43pm
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:55:13pm

re: #419 Blind Frog Belly White

There’s a lot of that going around.

A lot. It really exposed the right for what I always felt they were.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:56:24pm

re: #422 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The “values voter” was never interested in improving their own behavior, only in controlling others.

So called value voters have always been hypocrites. If it came out that Obama had an affair, Perkins would have pounced on it and blamed Obama’s socially liberal views for it. But because Trump has kissed his ass, he condones it. These people aer frauds and probalby have a lot of skeletons in their own closets.

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Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:56:35pm

I’ve kind of explored the idea that the Soviets had kompromat on both J. Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy. These two led anti-communist witch hunts and accused dozens of innocent or only peripherally involved people, yet missed the Kremlin’s multi-million dollar subsidies to the CPUSA and the presence of at least 2 Soviet moles, real spies, in the State Department. Dozens of State employees lost their jobs and their careers for nothing but the two spies were never even suspected. They also accused the wrong agent, Julius Rosenberg, in the transfer of vital atomic bomb secrets despite the Venona intercepts proving his guilt in other matters.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:56:58pm
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If Cernovich didn’t exist, there are a gazillion just as bad.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:57:13pm

re: #425 jaunte

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All Perkins cares about is Evangelicals getting their ass kissed, anti-abortion, and anti LGBT, and some hostilty to non-Evangelicals especially Muslims and skeptics.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:57:53pm

re: #429 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

If Cernovich didn’t exist, there are a gazillion just as bad.

Yep.

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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:58:40pm

re: #425 jaunte

I like the term:

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:59:27pm

re: #428 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

I’ve kind of explored the idea that the Soviets had kompromat on both J. Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy. These two led anti-communist witch hunts and accused dozens of innocent or only peripherally involved people, yet missed the Kremlin’s multi-million dollar subsidies to the CPUSA and the presence of at least 2 Soviet moles, real spies, in the State Department. Dozens of State employees lost their jobs and their careers for nothing but the two spies were never even suspected. They also accused the wrong agent, Julius Rosenberg, in the transfer of vital atomic bomb secrets despite the Venona intercepts proving his guilt in other matters.

Now that’s interesting to think about. McCarthy for me is the moment where the American right goes to the point of no return. Not that I think much of the old, Anti New Deal right especially when it came to foreign policy when many of them thought that Nazi Germany and especially Fascist Italy weren’t so bad.

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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:59:54pm

re: #429 Blind Frog Belly White

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 5:59:58pm

re: #431 HappyWarrior

Yep.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, Cernovich DOES exist.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:13pm

re: #401 Belafon

Travel back to the early 50s and tell McCarthy that his actions will lead to the Republican party embracing Russia’s interference in our political process.

And that his right hand man, Roy Cohn, would end up helping create Trump.

This is history being bent.

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Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:17pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

Look at how Conservatives continue to rail (even now) about Clinton’s infidelities while turning a blind eye to Trump’s indiscretions.

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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:19pm
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:27pm

For me, I ask myself about what the key issues have been that define wehre we are as a nation and then I ask myself where the right has been on those issues. They’ve mostly been not merely wrong but dead wrong on them.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:31pm

re: #425 jaunte

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:00:49pm

re: #435 Blind Frog Belly White

And, not to put too fine a point on it, Cernovich DOES exist.

Yeah makes the hypothetical all teh more dumb.

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Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:01:16pm

Ran across this less than surprising tidbit in the Venona article:

Controversy arose in 2009 over the Texas State Board of Education’s revision of their high school history class curricula to suggest Venona shows Senator Joseph McCarthy to have been justified in his zeal in exposing those whom he believed to be Soviet spies or communist sympathizers. Critics assert most people and organizations identified by McCarthy were not mentioned in the Venona content and that his accusations remain largely unsupported by evidence.

At least the Repubs have stopped harping that “McCarthy was right!”

I wonder why?/////

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Bubblehead II  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:01:31pm

Calling it night Lizards.

Be well and as always, may the Deity of your choice smile don upon you.

Yep, I’ve been drinking.

Cal Smith - The Lord Knows I’m Drinking

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:01:33pm

re: #439 HappyWarrior

For me, I ask myself about what the key issues have been that define wehre we are as a nation and then I ask myself where the right has been on those issues. They’ve mostly been not merely wrong but dead wrong on them.

Conservatives are always on the wrong side of history. That’s what comes of fighting against every improvement in who we are.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:01:40pm

re: #432 Belafon

I like the term:

[Embedded content]

Post-Christian Christianity.

Putting the “Christ” in Christmas while taking any hint of Christ out of Christianity.

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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:01:53pm
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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:02:24pm

re: #428 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Hoover, given what we have learned about his sexual tastes, is highly probable.

McCarthy was simply a drunkard and I think he’d already caused significant neuro-chemical damage by that point.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:04:10pm

re: #442 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Ran across this less than surprising tidbit in the Venona article:

At least the Repubs have stopped harping that “McCarthy was right!”

I wonder why?/////

Defenses of McCarthy are unsurprisingly internally contradictory:

1) McCarthy was right!

2) McCarthy didn’t really expose anyone!

Okay, but if he didn’t really expose anyone, what was he right about?

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:04:44pm

re: #447 William Lewis

Hoover, given what we have learned about his sexual tastes, is highly probable.

McCarthy was simply a drunkard and I think he’d already caused significant neuro-chemical damage by that point.

I think McCarthy was trying to make a name for himself. He was very obscure before 1950.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:05:45pm

My favorite is when conservatives who think McCarthy was right complain about McCarthyism.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:06:20pm

re: #446 Charles Johnson

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dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:06:38pm

i have to imagine that if there is no daca deal and they start deporting dreamers, this will be about as popular as enforcing the fugitive slave act

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:06:53pm

re: #444 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Conservatives are always on the wrong side of history. That’s what comes of fighting against every improvement in who we are.

Yep. Labor, civil rights, etc. They’ve been on the wrong side of the issues yet a lot of Americans think that conservatives know what’s best for our country. I always did appreciate though btw that DF admitted he’d be a Tory. None of that “conservatives are the TRUE heirs of the Founders” crap that I see too often.

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:07:29pm

re: #430 HappyWarrior

All Perkins cares about is Evangelicals getting their ass kissed, anti-abortion, and anti LGBT, and some hostilty to non-Evangelicals especially Muslims and skeptics.

It’s simpler to say that all he (and/or Graham and/or any other Evangelical leader) wants is absolute secular power. To be a middle ages Pope really. Living by Christ’s teaching is too hard for them them to actually _do_ it so they fake it instead in that quest for power.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:07:36pm

re: #445 Blind Frog Belly White

Post-Christian Christianity.

Putting the “Christ” in Christmas while taking any hint of Christ out of Christianity.

Maybe we need a “Put Christ back into Conservative Christianity” movement.

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dangerman  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:08:11pm

re: #375 Anymouse 🌹

All my grandparents were all born in the Theodore Roosevelt Presidency, though two were born in Poland.

Cleveland and McKinley
All born here (I and they were lucky)
Their ancestry was Eastern European polish and Russian and a bit of british

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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:08:20pm

re: #455 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Maybe we need a “Put Christ back into Conservative Christianity” movement.

Put Christ back in Christianity.

Just that simple.

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Jay C  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:08:26pm

re: #442 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Ran across this less than surprising tidbit in the Venona article:

At least the Repubs have stopped harping that “McCarthy was right!”

I wonder why?/////

Possibly because the original gloating about “Oh, yeah, there really WERE Soviet spies!” kinda lost its luster when it turned out that Joe McCarthy was still full of shit for most of his claims. And that his Red-hunting circuses were still basically an ego/power trip.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:08:46pm

re: #453 HappyWarrior

Yep. Labor, civil rights, etc. They’ve been on the wrong side of the issues yet a lot of Americans think that conservatives know what’s best for our country. I always did appreciate though btw that DF admitted he’d be a Tory. None of that “conservatives are the TRUE heirs of the Founders” crap that I see too often.

DF was very self-aware, he was just incapable of self-improvement.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:09:05pm

If we had uesd the same logic McCarthy had against anyone who had associated with left wing groups, McCarthy could have ben called a Nazi since he defended the accused at Malmedy. I like the Kennedy brothers but I always considered it a stain on RFK for serving on McCarthy’s staff and I think even less of Joe McCarthy for encouraging that.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:09:48pm

re: #459 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

DF was very self-aware, he was just incapable of self-improvement.

True that.

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:11:39pm

re: #453 HappyWarrior

Yep. Labor, civil rights, etc. They’ve been on the wrong side of the issues yet a lot of Americans think that conservatives know what’s best for our country. I always did appreciate though btw that DF admitted he’d be a Tory. None of that “conservatives are the TRUE heirs of the Founders” crap that I see too often.

I always thought that was a rather interesting moment of honesty on his part. I found it especially funny since I was the Anglophile (drink tea, watch soccer, anglo-catholic style Anglican, etc).

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:11:53pm

re: #458 Jay C

Possibly because the original gloating about “Oh, yeah, there really WERE Soviet spies!” kinda lost its luster when it turned out that Joe McCarthy was still full of shit for most of his claims. And that his Red-hunting circuses we’re still basically an ego/power trip.

What pisses me off about the Red Scare is how people were hounded for having had Red sympathies in the 30’s and WWII years. I’m sorry. I’m no apologist for Stalinism but I get why some people may have been fascinated by our Red ally during WWII and definitely by communism when it seemed that capitalism had failed in the days before the New Deal. And likewise, it’s also why I don’t have any respect for conservative entertainers who complain about being “blacklisted” for their views when conservative actors at that time like Reagan, Wayne, and others DID blacklist people for being leftists.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:14:27pm

re: #462 William Lewis

I always thought that was a rather interesting moment of honesty on his part. I found it especially funny since I was the Anglophile (drink tea, watch soccer, anglo-catholic style Anglican, etc).

Yeah I found that interesting too. I think it was his honest way of saying he wouldn’t know what to do if something had threatened the only life he’d known had he lived in the revolutionary era. I didn’t fault for him that honestly because I found it honest. And hey just because you’re an Anglophile doesn’t mean you can’t be a passioante small letter, r, republican. You could have been Charles James Fox. The one thing I don’t get is why Edmund Burke gets labeled as a conservative. I get that he wasn’t a radical but his views for the 18th century seem fairly liberal in that he supported our independence, wanted the penal laws repealed in Ireland, etc.
en.wikipedia.org

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FormerDirtDart  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:14:41pm

Don’t you wish it was the block in front of Trump Tower? He’d blow an aneurysm losing the Fifth Ave address

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:15:35pm

The homophobia of the Red Scare is something that’s only been really discussed recently due to the fact that well we care about the role of homophobia in history.

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whitebeach  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:16:38pm

re: #256 Bubblehead II

[Embedded content]

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:17:42pm

re: #463 HappyWarrior

What pisses me off about the Red Scare is how people were hounded for having had Red sympathies in the 30’s and WWII years. I’m sorry. I’m no apologist for Stalinism but I get why some people may have been fascinated by our Red ally during WWII and definitely by communism when it seemed that capitalism had failed in the days before the New Deal. And likewise, it’s also why I don’t have any respect for conservative entertainers who complain about being “blacklisted” for their views when conservative actors at that time like Reagan, Wayne, and others DID blacklist people for being leftists.

I’m sure you know Happy, but that blacklisting was more than actors. It was leveled at mostly screenwriters and authors. One of the most famous that I remember studying a bit about was Dalton Trumbo, author of “Johnny Got His Gun.”

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Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:19:08pm

re: #422 jaunte

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goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:19:51pm
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meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:20:55pm

re: #470 goddamnedfrank

So that’s how

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Kragar  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:23:37pm

re: #470 goddamnedfrank

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:23:45pm

re: #467 whitebeach

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4nIvUVPRb6y9xOxWdOz56QRXbMBqPTE2ge+jusPH02Wt+7MCleE+rfsCPT/JsCjRVIp0ORjGEoYp//KT6xY2vuThuLihts357Bq5QYS4Tn6wj9xFuZymwNkyEE6pRqBR5mgzIJ0PKi3OVyv0tl8OTK5JIiVFqqnuWTqLTvHoOUBHAbaTqavVkG8+HBISKGuf1eDX3NARn/WDsJ5arVgMsfYijfl35ra4ybcFMPGWHGWzzsViyd0XMFI/dbiAZ+Uypz/Fq0g7jCfrsn1hLMhz4OV7sWBwe+TxwY+Rl33P7hSaJ1SODNDwAlXVu7Nu711oW+vn+hqxJza2LkZBTHhTODY3zQb6TvV1VSm9oOwr60Bu/7R7TGJye4T5mtXALUPtGxgY8fdlCAhrfAhGK1cMLeh83idomBMbs1l3bg+PXyQ=

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:25:23pm

re: #464 HappyWarrior

Yeah I found that interesting too. I think it was his honest way of saying he wouldn’t know what to do if something had threatened the only life he’d known had he lived in the revolutionary era. I didn’t fault for him that honestly because I found it honest. And hey just because you’re an Anglophile doesn’t mean you can’t be a passioante small letter, r, republican. You could have been Charles James Fox. The one thing I don’t get is why Edmund Burke gets labeled as a conservative. I get that he wasn’t a radical but his views for the 18th century seem fairly liberal in that he supported our independence, wanted the penal laws repealed in Ireland, etc.
en.wikipedia.org

Fox had his moments thought honestly I like Burke better.

Mill and Wittgenstein for philosophy
Burke and Locke for politics
Smith and Marx for economics
Cranmer and Hooker for religion

Pragmatism, utilitarianism, compassion & progress

:D

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Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:25:27pm
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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:25:29pm
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EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:25:56pm

re: #455 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Maybe we need a “Put Christ back into Conservative Christianity” movement.

A multitude of Arch-Devils must be exorcised from conservative christianity before it can have any hope of reform.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:26:09pm

re: #472 Kragar

Your Final Jeopardy Answer: Mike Cernovich

What happens when you inject a spooge sock with gorilla growth hormone and toss it into a basement with a leaky water heater?

CORRECT!

It’s ALIVE!!!
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:27:22pm

re: #468 ObserverArt

I’m sure you know Happy, but that blacklisting was more than actors. It was leveled at mostly screenwriters and authors. One of the most famous that I remember studying a bit about was Dalton Trumbo, author of “Johnny Got His Gun.”

Oh yeah for sure.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:28:18pm

re: #474 William Lewis

Fox had his moments thought honestly I like Burke better.

Mill and Wittgenstein for philosophy
Burke and Locke for politics
Adams and Marx for economics
Cranmer and Hooker for religion

Pragmatism, utilitarianism, compassion & progress

:D

Need to look up some models for myself but I like your four pillars :).

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:29:49pm

re: #480 HappyWarrior

Need to look up some models for myself but I like your four pillars :).

Realised I hashed Adam Smith’s name in Economics. Whoops!!

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:30:14pm

I still like President Eisenhower but I admit it would have been hard for me to vote for him because of A) Silence during McCarthy’s worse moments, B) Making Nixon his number 2, C) Operation Wetback, and D) Some homophobic stuff too. I admit some of that is hindsight and 21st century views on a man born nearly a century before my birth.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:30:57pm

re: #481 William Lewis

Realised I hashed Adam Smith’s name in Economics. Whoops!!

Smith and Marx aren’t as opposed to each other as people think. Smith realized the importance of treating your employees like well people.

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EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:31:22pm

re: #444 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Conservatives are always on the wrong side of history. That’s what comes of fighting against every improvement in who we are.

Certainly US conservatives in the 21st century are utterly useless — the last thing the US needs now is stubborn-stupid attempts to delay or halt all needed reforms (which is a much more favorable view of US conservatism than it deserves).

There have been times and places where conservatism might have been more useful (e.g., if it had managed to check some of the excesses of the French Revolution without merely seeking to restore the monarchy and feudal privileges).

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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:33:13pm
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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:33:34pm

re: #482 HappyWarrior

I still like President Eisenhower but I admit it would have been hard for me to vote for him because of A) Silence during McCarthy’s worse moments, B) Making Nixon his number 2, C) Operation Wetback, and D) Some homophobic stuff too. I admit some of that is hindsight and 21st century views on a man born nearly a century before my birth.

In hindsight, to me it seems the worst thing President Eisenhower did was run as a Republican.

He was famously non-political before he threw his hat in the ring. He would have been accepted in either party, but the GOP was on the ropes from the Great Depression and he thought that they should be supported because we needed two strong parties.

In the past, major parties have collapsed before (the GOP came out of the collapse of the Whigs). Had he allowed them to collapse, perhaps we’d have a saner conservative party today.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:33:48pm

re: #484 EPR-radar

Certainly US conservatives in the 21st century are utterly useless — the last thing the US needs now is stubborn-stupid attempts to delay or halt all needed reforms (which is a much more favorable view of US conservatism than it deserves).

There have been times and places where conservatism might have been more useful (e.g., if it had managed to check some of the excesses of the French Revolution without merely seeking to restore the monarchy and feudal privileges).

Exactly.

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meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:34:26pm

re: #485 Charles Johnson

James O’Keefe
Andrew Anglin

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:34:44pm

re: #486 Anymouse 🌹

In hindsight, to me it seems the worst thing President Eisenhower did was run as a Republican.

He was famously non-political before he threw his hat in the ring. He would have been accepted in either party, but the GOP was on the ropes from the Great Depression and he thought that they should be supported because we needed two strong parties.

In the past, major parties have collapsed before (the GOP came out of the collapse of the Whigs). Had he allowed them to collapse, perhaps we’d have a saner conservative party today.

That’s true but it happened. Perhaps what could have happened is the Dixiecrats would have emerged as the opposition party and as much as I dlslike the GOP, the Dixiecrats were awful.

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lawhawk  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:36:05pm

re: #485 Charles Johnson

Miller and Bannon.

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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:36:38pm

re: #488 meteor

James O’Keefe
Andrew Anglin

David Duke
Richard Spencer
Gavin McInnis
Lauren Southern
Dana Loesch

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William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:36:42pm

re: #483 HappyWarrior

Smith and Marx aren’t as opposed to each other as people think. Smith realized the importance of treating your employees like well people.

Marx’s analysis could not have happened without the structure of Smith’s - and Smith’s work on “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” which is less well known, provides the backbone of much of “The Wealth of Nations” that the modern right wing refuses to accept.

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EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:36:49pm

re: #486 Anymouse 🌹

In hindsight, to me it seems the worst thing President Eisenhower did was run as a Republican.

He was famously non-political before he threw his hat in the ring. He would have been accepted in either party, but the GOP was on the ropes from the Great Depression and he thought that they should be supported because we needed two strong parties.

In the past, major parties have collapsed before (the GOP came out of the collapse of the Whigs). Had he allowed them to collapse, perhaps we’d have a saner conservative party today.

This is exactly my view. Ike made the GOP respectable at a time when it had done nothing to deserve that.

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Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:37:00pm

re: #470 goddamnedfrank

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Lol!! So mean (but could be true). I wonder why Trump hasn’t found a position for him as yet. He’s no different from Miller.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:37:35pm

re: #493 EPR-radar

This is exactly my view. Ike made the GOP respectable at a time when it had done nothing to deserve that.

I think Ike was genuinely worried that we might become a one party state but I agree with your premise that the GOP had done nothing to deserve being saved.

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ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:39:33pm

Chuck Schumer on Rachel next up in a minute. If anyone interested.

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Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:40:29pm

I’ve watched several of Jordan Klepper’s videos and really wanted to like them. But they’re just not that funny. He’s trying to do the Stephen Colbert thing, playing a right wing jackass host modeled on Bill O’Reilly, but he just isn’t hitting the target. Comedy Central was trying to recapture the magic, but it’s not happening.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:41:28pm

re: #492 William Lewis

Marx’s analysis could not have happened without the structure of Smith’s - and Smith’s work on “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” which is less well known, provides the backbone of much of “The Wealth of Nations” that the modern right wing refuses to accept.

I need to read some of these sometimes. Anyhow, one of my gerat political role models is Lincoln. I like a lot of your choices too. Bentham is a Brit I like too based on what I know. As a self-described socialist, what are your thoughts on Irish socialists like James Connolly and James Larkin? I find the Irish nationalists o the early 20th century fascinating.

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teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:41:55pm
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Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:42:08pm

re: #495 HappyWarrior

I think Ike was genuinely worried that we might become a one party state but I agree with your premise that the GOP had done nothing to deserve being saved.

We’ve been a one-party state before. A new party always arises (the collapse of Democratic-Republicans gave us the Democrats, the collapse of the Federalists gave us the Whigs, the collapse of the Whigs gave us the Republicans, and so forth).

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:42:09pm

re: #497 Charles Johnson

I’ve watched several of Jordan Klepper’s videos and really wanted to like them. But they’re just not that funny. He’s trying to do the Stephen Colbert thing, playing a right wing jackass host modeled on Bill O’Reilly, but he just isn’t hitting the target. Comedy Central was trying to recapture the magic, but it’s not happening.

Only could be one Colbert. Travor’s warmed to me but Jon will always be TDS to me.

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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:43:20pm

re: #500 Anymouse 🌹

We’ve been a one-party state before. A new party always arises (the collapse of Democratic-Republicans gave us the Democrats, the collapse of the Federalists gave us the Whigs, the collapse of the Whigs gave us the Republicans, and so forth).

I’m not disputing that but I think Ike worried about that possibility in the post WWII era when we had just fought a totalitarian one party state. I agree completely that it would have been better had Ike ran as a Democrat. I’m just giving my two cents on why I think Ike ran as a Republican.

503
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:44:15pm

re: #502 HappyWarrior

I’m not disputing that but I think Ike worried about that possibility in the post WWII era when we had just fought a totalitarian one party state. I agree completely that it would have been better had Ike ran as a Democrat. I’m just giving my two cents on why I think Ike ran as a Republican.

Oh I agree. And “what if” speculation might be good for an alternative history book, but not so much in politics.

504
William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:45:40pm

re: #498 HappyWarrior

I need to read some of these sometimes. Anyhow, one of my gerat political role models is Lincoln. I like a lot of your choices too. Bentham is a Brit I like too based on what I know. As a self-described socialist, what are your thoughts on Irish socialists like James Connolly and James Larkin? I find the Irish nationalists o the early 20th century fascinating.

What little I’ve read tells me I need to find more from them. Too many wonderful things to read, too little time. I wonder if either’s works are in Project Gutenberg?

505
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:45:53pm

A way I’ve seen the left and right described is that we want Hamiltonian solutions to Jeffersonian ideals and the right wants Jeffersonian solutions to Hamiltonian ideals. I’m not sure. I honestly think Jefferson understandably was skeptical of central power after the revolution but to me there was and is a vital difference between central government from Washington or any domestic capital versus London.

506
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:46:49pm

re: #503 Anymouse 🌹

Oh I agree. And “what if” speculation might be good for an alternative history book, but not so much in politics.

In the end, I’m glad of the WWII generals, it was Ike that became POTUS. MacARthur or Patton? No thanks. Though I do think one of Ike’s lieutenants like Bradley could have been a good President and General Marshall, my favorite would have too.

507
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:47:29pm

re: #504 William Lewis

What little I’ve read tells me I need to find more from them. Too many wonderful things to read, too little time. I wonder if either’s works are in Project Gutenberg?

I’m not sure but they would have a lot of works in the public domain if they exist.

508
Kragar  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:48:56pm

re: #506 HappyWarrior

Well, Patton had that whole “dying in a car accident” thing going which interfered with his Presidential campaign.

509
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:49:36pm

re: #508 Kragar

Well, Patton had that whole “dying in a car accident” thing going which interfered with his Presidential campaign.

Yeah that’s true too. Honestly, while I appreciate Patton as a general, I don’t like the man at all.

510
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:49:46pm

re: #468 ObserverArt

I’m sure you know Happy, but that blacklisting was more than actors. It was leveled at mostly screenwriters and authors. One of the most famous that I remember studying a bit about was Dalton Trumbo, author of “Johnny Got His Gun.”

I’ve always thought that was an odd fact. Actors and writers were blacklisted but producers, who had the power of life and death over scripts, were not included. The blacklist didn’t exist to stop anyone from disseminating commie propaganda, which producers could already do: It existed to punish and to make an example for the larger society.

511
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:50:23pm

Chuck Schumer on Maddow right now being about as unimpressive as humanly possible.

512
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:51:11pm

re: #510 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

I’ve always thought that was an odd fact. Actors and writers were blacklisted but producers, who had the power of life and death over scripts, were not included. The blacklist didn’t exist to stop anyone from disseminating commie propaganda, which producers could already do: It existed to punish and to make an example for the larger society.

You know SK, I never thought about that. I guess the actors and writers were easier targets because they’re artists and artists are an easier target than producers who could be more seen as businessmen.

513
Charles Johnson  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:51:22pm
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514
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:52:19pm

re: #513 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

She has serious judgment issues. I wouldn’t want her on my town council let alone in the Senate.

515
The Major  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:55:52pm

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

516
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:56:27pm

re: #511 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry you’re unhappy with that post meteor but he just admitted that he’s not going to demand the next budget resolution include the DREAM act. He’s just going to sit by and do nothing and hope that the visuals of Dreamers being deported eventually forces Republican hands. This strategy is not going to work.

517
William Lewis  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:57:26pm

re: #508 Kragar

Well, Patton had that whole “dying in a car accident” thing going which interfered with his Presidential campaign.

(thank god)

And MacArthur had the ability to play emperor to an emperor to keep him occupied till he could screw up as a General for the n-th time.

518
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:57:34pm

re: #516 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry you’re unhappy with that post meteor but he just admitted that he’s not going to demand the next budget resolution include the DREAM act. He’s just going to sit by and do nothing and hope that the visuals of Dreamers being deported eventually forces Republican hands. This strategy is not going to work.

That’s really disappointing. He needs to do that.

519
meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:58:15pm

re: #516 goddamnedfrank

Well, saving nine million kids is not good, apparently. Maybe next time we’ll make it ten.

520
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:58:43pm

re: #517 William Lewis

(thank god)

And MacArthur had the ability to play emperor to an emperor to keep him occupied till he could screw up as a General for the n-th time.

I’ve told this story before but I’ll repeat it again, my grandfather appreciated that Truman fired MacArthur. And I’m glad he did too. I have no idea what happens if Mac expands the war into China. That would have been a disaster of epic proportions since it was before the SIno-Soviet split.

521
ipsos  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:58:46pm

re: #501 HappyWarrior

Only could be one Colbert. Travor’s warmed to me but Jon will always be TDS to me.

Have you read Trevor’s book? Highly recommended.

As for 11:30 on Comedy Central, I think Larry Wilmore got a raw deal. His voice would be so valuable in late night now.

522
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:58:47pm

re: #518 HappyWarrior

That’s really disappointing. He needs to do that.

Those kids are fucked.

523
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:59:27pm

re: #522 goddamnedfrank

Those kids are fucked.

I feel so awful for them. They’re as American as I am.

524
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 6:59:57pm
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Voting out the Rs is the only solution.

525
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:00:02pm

re: #522 goddamnedfrank

Those kids are fucked.

It’s not just kids. And not just folks who were brought here from Mexico as children illegally.

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526
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:00:26pm

re: #521 ipsos

Have you read Trevor’s book? Highly recommended.

As for 11:30 on Comedy Central, I think Larry Wilmore got a raw deal. His voice would be so valuable in late night now.

No, I haven’t but I’m familiar with his basic biography. I agree with you about Larry. I liked his format and I liked him more than I did Maher who has a similiar format but Larry isn’t smug and is more clever.

527
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:02:13pm

re: #516 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry you’re unhappy with that post meteor but he just admitted that he’s not going to demand the next budget resolution include the DREAM act. He’s just going to sit by and do nothing and hope that the visuals of Dreamers being deported eventually forces Republican hands. This strategy is not going to work.

I think you misread that. He said the Democratic Senate with the help of some Republicans and McConnell are going to try to pass it in the Senate.

But he fears that will not be good enough for the hard liners in the House. They don’t have enough political clout to do much else. Pretty hard to deny that. It’s a Republican government.

He also said maybe Trump grows up a bit and on a good day demands the House pass the Senate bill.

At that point, if they can’t find enough moderate Republicans and it comes March and Dreamers begin to be deported he would hope America will demand that stop.

528
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:02:29pm

re: #522 goddamnedfrank

Those kids are fucked.

We’re all fucked, frank. The Republicans are ghouls and the Democrats think they can win by sitting back and waiting for the GOP to blow up.

The problem with that is this country likes ghouls.

529
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:03:40pm

re: #519 meteor

Well, saving nine million kids is not good, apparently. Maybe next time we’ll make it ten.

CHIP is done. It’s not either or anymore, yet Schumer just said he’s given up on making the next budget resolution contingent on getting DACA passed. He’s just going to let Trump deport them and hope that the blowback falls more on Republicans than Democrats. He’s willing to let that happen because he thinks the public will blame Democrats more for shutting the government down than they will for not doing everything possible to prevent Dreamers from being deported. I’m sorry but that’s an utterly gutless abdication of leadership.

530
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:04:21pm

re: #513 Charles Johnson

Maybe it’s in a “I wouldn’t be part of any club that would have me” kind of way.

Edit: Adding //

//

531
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:05:40pm

re: #530 Belafon

Maybe it’s in a “I wouldn’t be part of any club that would have me” kind of way.

Who knows bwhat her motivation was but if Manning wants people to take her prospective political career seriously, stay hte hell away from these fuckbags.

532
whitebeach  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:05:42pm

re: #6 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

How many running feet of wall do we even get for $1.6 billion?

You get 9,383,679 running feet of wall. It will, however, be 1 mm high.

533
meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:06:03pm

re: #529 goddamnedfrank

You are not sorry.

Also, nine million goddamn kids. Nine million? Helloo? Anyone out there?

Goddamn, I give up.

534
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:06:23pm

re: #527 ObserverArt

I think you misread that. He said the Democratic Senate with the help of some Republicans and McConnell are going to try to pass it in the Senate.

But he fears that will not be good enough for the hard liners in the House. They don’t have enough political clout to do much else. Pretty hard to deny that. It’s a Republican government.

Schumer said McConnell won’t put it in the budget bill and admitted that he won’t shut the government down again to force him to do so. He’s going to try to get a stand alone DREAM act through the Senate and then wash his hands of the entire issue.

535
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:08:15pm

re: #533 meteor

You are not sorry.

Also, nine million goddamn kids. Nine million? Helloo? Anyone out there?

Goddamn, I give up.

chip.is.fixed. That’s a done fucking deal. You’re goddamned right that I’m not going to happily accept that hostage in exchange for the suffering of 3.5 million kids who grew up here.

536
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:08:20pm

re: #531 HappyWarrior

Who knows bwhat her motivation was but if Manning wants people to take her prospective political career seriously, stay hte hell away from these fuckbags.

Sorry, I left off the //

537
ipsos  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:08:59pm

re: #526 HappyWarrior

No, I haven’t but I’m familiar with his basic biography.

I was, too, but the book was still an eye-opener. He’s a really good writer.

538
meteor  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:09:34pm

re: #535 goddamnedfrank

K then. Wish this board had an Ignore function.

539
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:09:55pm

re: #536 Belafon

Sorry, I left off the //

All good. I like Krag’s point on the matter. She claims both parties are the same yet is running as a Democrat and hasn’t said anything about the Republicans. I don’t trust her. I don’t think she deserved to spend the rest of her life in prison and I will respect her by referring to her as the pronoun she prefers but I don’t have respect for her.

540
EPR-radar  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:10:14pm

re: #534 goddamnedfrank

Schumer said McConnell won’t put it in the budget bill and admitted that he won’t shut the government down again to force him to do so. He’s going to try to get a stand alone DREAM act through the Senate and then wash his hands of the entire issue.

That sounds very much like a deliberate exercise in failure theater, and I’ll be most disappointed if things play out that way.

At some point the Democrats have to realize that the core identity of their party is that they are decent human beings as opposed to the devils in skin-suits that infest the Republican party, and act accordingly.

541
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:10:52pm

re: #534 goddamnedfrank

Schumer said McConnell won’t put it in the budget bill and admitted that he won’t shut the government down again to force him to do so. He’s going to try to get a stand alone DREAM act through the Senate and then wash his hands of the entire issue.

And tell me, if he gets a vote on the DREAM act, and Republicans vote no, what leverage will he have to get them to pass it? Who do you think shutting down the government will sway after that point?

542
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:11:13pm

Schumer just said that going forward he’s not going to do everything possible to help the Dreamers and I’m supposed to be OK with that because he finally got CHIP funded. Screw that.

543
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:11:25pm

Melania has something to say.

A Message From Melania Trump

544
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:11:56pm

re: #537 ipsos

I was, too, but the book was still an eye-opener. He’s a really good writer.

I do recall reading a book by a man who grew up in Apartheid Africa, Mark Mathabane and seeing Cry Freedom in 10th grade. Apartheid always infuriated me to think about. Trevor’s title says it all, he was born a crime and he ain’t much older than me.

545
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:12:10pm

re: #534 goddamnedfrank

Schumer said McConnell won’t put it in the budget bill and admitted that he won’t shut the government down again to force him to do so. He’s going to try to get a stand alone DREAM act through the Senate and then wash his hands of the entire issue.

Well fuck, nice of Chuck to shit over all the people who’ve spent the past 24 hours trying to argue that this was a good play because we got CHIP off the table. Now it really does look like he caved and agreed to ending the shutdown to avoid negative press.

546
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:13:26pm

re: #541 Belafon

And tell me, if he gets a vote on the DREAM act, and Republicans vote no, what leverage will he have to get them to pass it? Who do you think shutting down the government will sway after that point?

Since the Republicans can no longer frame it as a false choice between insurance for kids and protecting the Dreamers, yeah, maybe. He should at least be willing to try. Instead he’s acting like a scalded dog.

547
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:15:05pm

Here is the video from Rachel. Haven’t watched this, but it appears to be the whole interview since it is ten minutes.

Iframe

548
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:15:10pm

On the other hand, McConnell spent some time setting up the false choice between Dreamer and CHIP, and that tactic is done. Why would Schumer let McConnell know the details of what he might do next?

549
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:16:16pm

re: #540 EPR-radar

That sounds very much like a deliberate exercise in failure theater, and I’ll be most disappointed if things play out that way.

At some point the Democrats have to realize that the core identity of their party is that they are decent human beings as opposed to the devils in skin-suits that infest the Republican party, and act accordingly.

We are decent human beings, which is why, after a weekend and a “promise” from McConnell on a DACA vote, Democrats helped pass CHIP, because 9M children needed health care. Now we have to fight this battle, and try to help as many as we can.

Did you see the polling from earlier about Democratic Senators in red states:

A survey of red-state voters conducted last month by the Senate Majority PAC, which aims to elect Democrats to the Senate, showed that 48 percent of respondents would blame them for a shutdown, compared with 39 percent who said the fault would lie with Trump and the Republicans.

It’s really infuriating that Republicans are willing to play these games with people’s lives.

550
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:17:41pm
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551
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:17:42pm

Chuck Schumer is exactly the wrong kind of Democrat leader we need in these times. He’s as squishy as the sponge in the strainer in The Dangerous Kitchen.

The Dangerous Kitchen

552
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:18:17pm

re: #546 goddamnedfrank

Since the Republicans can no longer frame it as a false choice between insurance for kids and protecting the Dreamers, yeah, maybe. He should at least be willing to try. Instead he’s acting like a scalded dog.

Now it just becomes a false choice between Dreamers and:
1. Paying the military
2. Making sure SS continues to go out.
3. Paying Medicare
4. Making CHIP payments.

553
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:19:23pm

I’m still waiting for someone in the Republican Party to just go out there and say all the DREAMers need to be deported.

554
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:19:41pm

re: #548 jaunte

On the other hand, McConnell spent some time setting up the false choice between Dreamer and CHIP, and that tactic is done. Why would Schumer let McConnell know the details of what he might do next?

It’s pretty clear that the tactic of framing it as the “Schumer Shutdown” actually shook him. He’s lost his spine.

555
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:20:41pm

re: #554 goddamnedfrank

He suggest keeping the pressure on the senators who can make a difference.

556
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:21:06pm

re: #552 Belafon

Now it just becomes a false choice between Dreamers and:
1. Paying the military
2. Making sure SS continues to go out.
3. Paying Medicare
4. Making CHIP payments.

5. Paying the millions of federal employees
6. Processing tax returns (tax season will have started by Feb 8th)
7. Keeping national parks open

The same calculus that made the 2013 shutdown a negative for the GOP is now weighted against the DNC. I hate to be “that guy,” but DACA is not such a major issue to a majority of voters that it outweighs everything else.

557
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:22:03pm

re: #552 Belafon

Now it just becomes a false choice between Dreamers and:
1. Paying the military
2. Making sure SS continues to go out.
3. Paying Medicare
4. Making CHIP payments.

It’s not enough to not be Republicans, the Democrats have to give people something to vote for. Just rolling over on an issue that has 80% support isn’t going to accomplish that.

558
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:22:16pm

re: #554 goddamnedfrank

It’s pretty clear that the tactic of framing it as the “Schumer Shutdown” actually shook him. He’s lost his spine.

Considering all the negative press from the “liberal” media, all of it blaming the DNC outright or obliquely, I’m not surprised that he lost his nerve.

559
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:23:17pm

re: #558 Targetpractice

Considering all the negative press from the “liberal” media, all of it blaming the DNC outright or obliquely, I’m not surprised that he lost his nerve.

Me neither, just deeply disappointed.

560
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:23:30pm

re: #513 Charles Johnson

Oh boy, Gavin McInnis of Rebel Media. Wonderful company she’s keeping there with Cernovich.

561
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:23:53pm

re: #553 teleskiguy

I’m still waiting for someone in the Republican Party to just go out there and say all the DREAMers need to be deported.

REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN CELEBRATES FIRST DREAMER DEPORTATION WITH A BEER

Close enough?

vanityfair.com

562
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:27:13pm

As I noted last night, a majority of Americans support the Dreamers in principle, i.e. they support the idea of people who have jobs and clean records being allowed to stay. But when you start getting into specific, particularly if getting that in writing might mean a weeks long shutdown that impacts people’s bank accounts or their health? Yeah, that support is going to drop and we saw that this past weekend. I think we might have to make peace with DACA being drug into November as a campaign issue, rather than there being a resolution before the March deadline.

563
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:27:29pm

re: #561 Skip Intro

REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN CELEBRATES FIRST DREAMER DEPORTATION WITH A BEER

Close enough?

vanityfair.com

Why am I not surprised it was him? Worst bigot in the R caucus and man that’s saying something.

564
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:27:57pm

re: #557 goddamnedfrank

It’s not enough to not be Republicans, the Democrats have to give people something to vote for. Just rolling over on an issue that has 80% support isn’t going to accomplish that.

Sorry, but that 80% support is pretty thin. Most of those 80% are ok with it as long as it doesn’t affect them. I guarantee you that if you asked those 80% if the government should shut down until it passes, at least 70% of those people will say no.

565
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:29:49pm

re: #564 Belafon

“Trump’s administration is about to deport a lot of law-abiding, productive, working taxpayers, which means you’ll be making up the shortfall.”

566
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:30:13pm

I hate to say it too but that 80% reminds me of numbers I’ve seen before. I do think McConnell needs to be pressured though big time.

567
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:30:43pm

Every time a bill that comes through Congress, a Democrat will need to propose an amendment to help the Dreamers.

568
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:31:11pm

re: #565 jaunte

“Trump’s administration is about to deport a lot of law-abiding, productive, working taxpayers, which means you’ll be making up the shortfall.”

“More jobs for Americans!!!”

569
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:31:18pm

re: #566 HappyWarrior

I hate to say it too but that 80% reminds me of numbers I’ve seen before. I do think McConnell needs to be pressured though big time.

Look where background checks have gotten us.

570
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:31:23pm

re: #557 goddamnedfrank

It’s not enough to not be Republicans, the Democrats have to give people something to vote for. Just rolling over on an issue that has 80% support isn’t going to accomplish that.

I’m not enough of a political mavin to figure out how that goes, but I suspect if you put that 80% support against something like “support for veterans” or “Medicare” that number would drop significantly.

I don’t know how much though.

571
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:31:26pm

re: #567 Belafon

Every time a bill that comes through Congress, a Democrat will need to propose an amendment to help the Dreamers.

Keep the issue relevant.

572
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:31:48pm

re: #569 Belafon

Look where background checks have gotten us.

Exactly. I understand the frustration of course.

573
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:32:41pm

re: #571 HappyWarrior

Keep the issue relevant.

Keep it in the courts if possible.

574
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:33:24pm

re: #573 Anymouse 🌹

Keep it in the courts if possible.

That’s where the AGs come in.

575
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:34:04pm

re: #573 Anymouse 🌹

Keep it in the courts if possible.

That might be the best angle in the near-term, fighting the deportations in the courts while working to get a permanent solution through legislation.

576
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:34:14pm

Sigh I hate the rise of nativism in this country. It’s worse than it was post 9/11 tbh.

577
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:35:59pm

re: #576 HappyWarrior

Sigh I hate the rise of nativism in this country. It’s worse than it was post 9/11 tbh.

We elected a black man, and then too many people stopped paying attention to what happened after.

578
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:36:16pm

Juanita Jean’s has an update on the entire slate of Democrats the GOP is trying to throw off the Dallas County, TX primary ballot. It turns out the law in Texas doesn’t say what the Republican are alleging, in other words, it’s a frivolous lawsuit.

579
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:36:27pm

re: #577 Belafon

We elected a black man, and then too many people stopped paying attention to what happened after.

Yep which allowed this to be reborn.

580
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:37:25pm

re: #578 Anymouse 🌹

Juanita Jean’s has an update on the entire slate of Democrats the GOP is trying to throw off the Dallas County, TX primary ballot. It turns out the law in Texas doesn’t say what the Republican are alleging, in other words, it’s a frivolous lawsuit.

When has that ever stopped wingnut judges from ruling in the GOP’s favor? Keep it mired in the courts until after the primaries happen, then quietly “drop” it as the purpose of the suit (keeping GOP running unopposed) has been fulfilled.

581
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:37:39pm
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582
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:37:59pm

re: #565 jaunte

“Trump’s administration is about to deport a lot of law-abiding, productive, working taxpayers, which means you’ll be making up the shortfall.”

They can’t even properly think through keeping seasonal farm workers out of the country. How are they going to handle something as complex as “This person is earning a salary and spending it.”

583
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:38:15pm

re: #553 teleskiguy

I’m still waiting for someone in the Republican Party to just go out there and say all the DREAMers need to be deported.

I think they are saying that. And if it is not clear, it will be soon.

Can they stand up to the pressure it will bring? It’s easy to talk. What happens when they start putting Dreamers in holding centers before shipping them out?

Will the Republicans go that far? This is going to come down to The Republicans being cruel or they fold.

But they do have the power. So they will own the cruelty should it come to that.

That is a huge label on a political party.

584
whitebeach  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:38:27pm

re: #577 Belafon

We elected a black man, and then too many people stopped paying attention to what happened after.

The racists didn’t. They came teeming out from under their rocks and haven’t gone back since.

585
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:38:59pm

re: #582 Belafon

They can’t even properly think through keeping seasonal farm workers out of the country. How are they going to handle something as complex as “This person is earning a salary and spending it.”

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586
allegro  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:38:59pm

Don Lemon is taking Franklin Graham to the woodshed. It’s a thing of beauty.

587
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:39:14pm

re: #584 whitebeach

The racists didn’t. They came teeming out from under their rocks and haven’t gone back since.

Agree. It was the rest of us (the royal us).

588
The Vicious Babushka  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:39:39pm

I am hooked on watching “The Crown”

589
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:40:08pm

re: #584 whitebeach

The racists didn’t. They came teeming out from under their rocks and haven’t gone back since.

Obama’s election scared them. Just like I feel HRC’s candidacy exposed a lot of sexism.

590
Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:40:41pm

re: #551 teleskiguy

Chuck Schumer is exactly the wrong kind of Democrat leader we need in these times. He’s as squishy as the sponge in the strainer in The Dangerous Kitchen.

[Embedded content]

What should he do differently? It’s an uphill battle dealing with a majority party which hates immigrants (even the legal ones if they’re the wrong religion or color). I’m not sure what he can do to force Republicans to vote for DACA but I may be missing something.

591
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:40:43pm

re: #585 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I don’t feel bad for them at all. Morons.

592
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:42:28pm

re: #586 allegro

Don Lemon is taking Franklin Graham to the woodshed. It’s a thing of beauty.

He’s grown on me. Lemon of course.

593
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:42:40pm

re: #588 The Vicious Babushka

I am hooked on watching “The Crown”

Sorry, wrong show.

594
Patricia Kayden  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:43:19pm

re: #553 teleskiguy

I’m still waiting for someone in the Republican Party to just go out there and say all the DREAMers need to be deported.

Didn’t Sarah Huckabee state that Trump is considering doing just that?

595
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:44:05pm

re: #588 The Vicious Babushka

I am hooked on watching “The Crown”

It is fantastic.

596
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:46:18pm

I’m waiting for some additional interviews, responses and leaks before I reassess the total calculus of all of this per Schumer’s interview.
Mostly cause I’m tired.

I’m super worried and feel like we still have some plays to make. Felt like this a lot during the Obama Presidency which does not lend itself well to this comparison because now we are in hell.

597
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:48:29pm
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598
Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:48:57pm

re: #596 JordanRules

I’m waiting for some additional interviews, responses and leaks before I reassess the total calculus of all of this per Schumer’s interview.
Mostly cause I’m tired.

I’m super worried and feel like we still have some plays to make. Felt like this a lot during the Obama Presidency which does not lend itself well to this comparison because now we are in hell.

Yep. As long a the Trump - Pence regime remains in power, there are dark days ahead.

599
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:49:28pm

re: #597 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

They looked like their gold toilet just got clogged.

600
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:49:35pm

re: #591 HappyWarrior

I don’t feel bad for them at all. Morons.

I feel sorry only in that so many voters allowed petty prejudices to allow them to be swayed by conservative propaganda.

I don’t want anyone’s land seized for a 1,500 mile monument to Trump’s ego and racism.

Here, where landowners are still slugging it out with TransCanada and the state over the Keystone XL pipeline (which would also seize their land, but for a foreign company), I really hope we can get the messaging out that it’s Jane Kleeb (now the Democratic Party chair in the state) that’s organising the fight, and it’s our party that cares about their land.

601
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:49:40pm
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602
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:51:33pm

re: #600 Anymouse 🌹

I feel sorry only in that so many voters allowed petty prejudices to allow them to be swayed by conservative propaganda.

I don’t want anyone’s land seized for a 1,500 mile monument to Trump’s ego and racism.

Here, where landowners are still slugging it out with TransCanada and the state over the Keystone XL pipeline (which would also seize their land, but for a foreign company), I really hope we can get the messaging out that it’s Jane Kleeb (now the Democratic Party chair in the state) that’s organising the fight, and it’s our party that cares about their land.

I don’t want it either but man I just wish they had listened rather than just dismissing liberals.

603
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:52:39pm
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604
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:53:02pm

I’m watching ep 3 of Victoria.

She visits her cousin (of course) Louis Philippe, the king of France.

Exquisite episode showing debauched, glorious France.

Spoiler in case

XGqh4QAhA3n69VNSoAhAOypf+gp+J/ztayXipf+Ircp+z1BYhWF54YClsjV4K5XnHMZPH5vperx99l7ByTm0Qh1Q4j6LsgmnDwvnmWfb7XrpNofpYNcaG97phhkXkZwKcbHdJPa/Uffek3ScVyV2CAHnf33fMXapQQABDEbzQatx/TNibytO40+JtfNLlkFz0OZwU3nQa2el28E4IebeF3rPtmqr0XjlpNXFsfjIM37hLt1+c9JJrf75IcK0HcmbUMCY7oDniazaTUsQeojcjIFxhjt+oRCfeODNLX+OY+Lev+EzHK5hhS86DTIkLOkyFdrBX7FnDVcEvNdDj8/bzsrrvqZ3Syj0WtHu7PSyUKF8bHnzT6lweg==

605
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:53:26pm

re: #601 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I almost want to see her run against Trump because they’re totally different.

606
Anymouse 🌹  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:55:47pm

re: #605 HappyWarrior

I almost want to see her run against Trump because they’re totally different.

That sure would take the vet card away from the GOP.

On the other hand, the way they treated Max Cleland and John Kerry also shows they don’t give a diddly damn about a vet unless that vet is in their camp.

607
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:55:58pm

re: #601 jaunte

She’s so amazing!
As soon as I found out she was preggo I excitedly announced it to my ‘homegirl chat’ and we were all so happy for her and just recounting what a badass she is!

608
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:57:23pm

re: #606 Anymouse 🌹

That sure would take the vet card away from the GOP.

On the other hand, the way they treated Max Cleland and John Kerry also shows they don’t give a diddly damn about a vet unless that vet is in their camp.

Yeah very true unfortunately. I just love how tough she is.

609
whitebeach  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:57:43pm

re: #603 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Oh, man, did Ursula die? I hadn’t heard. The loss of such a true genius. Damn it.

610
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:59:07pm

re: #607 JordanRules

She’s so amazing!
As soon as I found out she was preggo I excitedly announced it to my ‘homegirl chat’ and we were all so happy for her and just recounting what a badass she is!

She is just such a badass. I really hope she’s considering running.

611
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 7:59:28pm
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HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:00:46pm

re: #611 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Pathetic shit. Really Wisconsin you replaced Feingold with this fuck?

613
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:01:38pm

re: #612 HappyWarrior

Senator Infowars.

614
The Ghost of a Flea  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:01:39pm

re: #604 Stanley Sea

Ortolan

615
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:04:09pm
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616
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:05:26pm

re: #615 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

It’s disgusting. The smears on him, Mueller, McCabe, & others.

617
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:05:55pm

It’s still a dream of mine to be stuck overnight in one of the hotels up this canyon due to avalanche danger and Snowbird/Alta becomes country club powder skiing the next morning. It’s one of skiing’s holy grails. A plum, sought by many, plucked by few.

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618
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:08:56pm

re: #614 The Ghost of a Flea

wow & thanks!

619
austin_blue  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:09:20pm

re: #616 HappyWarrior

It’s disgusting. The smears on him, Mueller, McCabe, & others.

It will be part of the report that Mueller files, though. Very telling. This Administration will be hoisted on their own petard. In this case, the money laundering will be followed by the cover-up of the money laundering. Both are felonies, and both are high crimes.

620
Stanley Sea  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:10:38pm

I’m hungry for some chicken.

621
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:11:42pm

re: #611 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You can just feel the respect for law enforcement coming from the screen, can’t ya?

/////

622
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:11:56pm

GAH!!!

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623
austin_blue  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:12:17pm

re: #620 Stanley Sea

I’m hungry for some chicken.

In the pedophile world, that’s not something you post publicly.

:-)

624
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:12:53pm

This shit with Fuckface Von Clownstick is truly a living hell. What. The. Fuck.

625
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:13:05pm

re: #622 teleskiguy

GAH!!!

[Embedded content]

He’s such a shitbag.

626
jaunte  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:14:02pm

re: #621 Targetpractice

“Secret offsite meetings” also known in normal language as conversations coworkers might have had when they weren’t in the office.

627
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:14:27pm

re: #611 jaunte

I found the secret society! It’s led by a guy named Robert Mueller.

628
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:16:31pm

re: #622 teleskiguy

GAH!!!

[Embedded content]

Welcome to the Hell that we presently face: Democrats are running for reelection this year in states where the folks will look at that tweet and say “FUCK YEAH! BUILD THE WALL!!!”

629
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:17:47pm

re: #628 Targetpractice

Welcome to the Hell that we presently face: Democrats are running for reelection this year in states where the folks will look at that tweet and say “FUCK YEAH! BUILD THE WALL!!!”

Sigh. Yeah.

630
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:20:51pm

Just so we’re clear here’s what’s happened so far. Our team has entered into negotiations with terrorists, by taking a stand we managed to get one hostage freed and now we’re telling the terrorists in advance that we’re not going to go to the same lengths to save the second hostage.

There isn’t any way you can convince me that’s something to be proud of.

631
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:24:56pm

A Democrat won in a western Pennsylvania special election for a state senate seat:

A quick diary, posted as I didn’t see this news reported yet on the site… . a win for Team Blue in a Pennsylvania special election.

In the PA House, 35th district, Austin Davis beat Republican Fawn Walker-Montgomery tonight — this is a district in the Monongahela Valley in the western part of the state. For a bit more about the contest, see this story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Combined with the recent important victory in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court regarding legislative districting and the Republican gerrymandering — things may be looking up for Pennsylvania. Next stop, electing Conor Lamb for the Pennsylvania 18th district, this March!

632
retired cynic  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:25:06pm

re: #447 William Lewis

Hoover, given what we have learned about his sexual tastes, is highly probable.

McCarthy was simply a drunkard and I think he’d already caused significant neuro-chemical damage by that point.

My husband met him in the early 50s, when he (McCarthy) was already causing trouble. He said in person (and probably sober at the time) that he was quite charming, as are most politicians. My husband also wondered what would have happened if he (my husband) had had a gun with him. Well. I suppose my husband would not have been my husband, as we married about 20 years after that!

633
teleskiguy  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:25:27pm

re: #628 Targetpractice

Abdication of good government. Where will it go?

Joy Ride

634
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:26:08pm

re: #630 goddamnedfrank

Just so we’re clear here’s what’s happened so far. Our team has entered into negotiations with terrorists, by taking a stand we managed to get one hostage freed and now we’re telling the terrorists in advance that we’re not going to go to the same lengths to save the second hostage.

There isn’t any way you can convince me that’s something to be proud of.

As others have pointed out, the terrorists already planned to free the first set of hostages, but weren’t going to release the second hostages at all.

635
HappyWarrior  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:26:45pm

re: #631 Belafon

A Democrat won in a western Pennsylvania special election for a state senate seat:

Great news. Western Pa outside of Pittsburgh has become firmly Republican.

636
Belafon  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:29:55pm

I wonder how well people in blue states are doing at scaring their Republican representatives? Obviously not as well, otherwise Issa and them would have voted against the tax cut bill. Instead, they’re going to retire and probably go into lobbying work.

637
JordanRules  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:30:47pm

re: #631 Belafon

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Wavy!

638
goddamnedfrank  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:33:13pm

re: #634 Belafon

As others have pointed out, the terrorists already planned to free the first set of hostages, but weren’t going to release the second hostages at all.

So it’s even worse, we accomplished nothing they weren’t already going to give us. We got played, our leader in the Senate is clearly shook, the far left is even more alienated from Democrats than they were going in and we’re being told this is a win.

639
freetoken  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:34:37pm

The current shitshow has been a long time coming.

It goes back to 70’s, when a handful of white fundamentalists decided to take over the GOP. They found their saint in Reagan, though in truth he was no saint. But that didn’t matter because they could sell him as such.

Since then it’s been a downhill slide of the GOP into atavism, all the more so as the Democratic Party (once rather conservative) began embracing modernist movements like Gay Rights.

Trump really did not invent any of this. He’s just the exploiter. He knows marks when he sees them (like Rupert Murdoch.) Trump has spent his life exploiting the ignorance of others.

640
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:34:58pm

re: #636 Belafon

I wonder how well people in blue states are doing at scaring their Republican representatives? Obviously not as well, otherwise Issa and them would have voted against the tax cut bill. Instead, they’re going to retire and probably go into lobbying work.

Issa’s just going to run in a different district.

641
freetoken  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:36:03pm

re: #640 Skip Intro

Issa’s just going to run in a different district.

For the likes of Issa, he got what he wanted. The tax give-away by the GOP will mean millions to him and his friend.

642
Targetpractice  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:36:52pm

re: #638 goddamnedfrank

So it’s even worse, we accomplished nothing they weren’t already going to do. We got played, our leader in the Senate is clearly shook, the far left is even more alienated from Democrats than they were going in and we’re being told this is a win.

It was a win up until Schumer’s interview. Before that, we had this hope that this was a canny bit of political strategy, that we had the GOP now looking at a shutdown in 3 weeks time with no convenient hostage and the weight of a promise they were likely going to break.

Chuck’s totally upended that calculus and now said aloud what the far-left critics have been screaming since yesterday: That the DNC folded, they gave up the fight over negative publicity, and they don’t have the stomach to stick out another shutdown fight. 12 hours ago, I might have believed Mitch would feel uneasy about breaking that promise. Now? Now he’s not sweating it because nobody’s gonna hold him to it, he’s free to shred the agreement because he knows the DNC will let the matter go when it comes time to pass another CR.

643
Skip Intro  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:37:30pm

re: #638 goddamnedfrank

The Dems did nothing while the Republicans stole a SC seat so why expect them to act any differently now?

644
ckkatz  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:38:32pm

I too am nauseated, disgusted and angry at the pure senseless cruelty and destruction the Repugs are doing to the Dreamers and other defenseless folks.

I guess that I interpreted the Schumer interview on Maddow differently. What I saw was a gaming out of the options that lay ahead.

645
Ace Rothstein  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:39:06pm

re: #485 Charles Johnson

Alex Marlow. Malcolm Nance fucking destroyed him on some show not long ago. Just fucking destroyed him.

646
allegro  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:40:15pm

re: #630 goddamnedfrank

Just so we’re clear here’s what’s happened so far. Our team has entered into negotiations with terrorists, by taking a stand we managed to get one hostage freed and now we’re telling the terrorists in advance that we’re not going to go to the same lengths to save the second hostage.

There isn’t any way you can convince me that’s something to be proud of.

I think it was yesterday when I talked about Texas being a non-voting state and why. To repeat it’s largely due to our millions of Hispanic citizens feeling that there’s no point to it. One party is the same as the other to them. Neither does squat to improve their lives. I also said it’s hard to argue against that sometimes.

Thanks Schumer for proving their point. Even if you lost the battle making the fucking stand would count for something. Maybe a whole lot. They are watching and you just said “fuck you, maybe some other time.” Again.

I’ll stop now. My disgust is…

647
freetoken  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:41:18pm

I gather that there is a lot of disquiet with the DNC.

Well, yes, their not so hot on some things.

The Democratic party as a whole, for many years now, has been an umbrella party for the we’re-not-Republicans this or that niche group.

I have long lamented the lack of ideology, stated ideology, for the Democratic Party.

I think I understand why - there is probably no cohesive ideology for a group that tries to embrace atheists and (socially liberal) evangelicals, or old-time labor groups and free-market folk. Conceptually such groupings of people do not belong together, but find themselves in 2018 all opposing the hatred of Trump.

648
Hecuba's daughter  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:50:42pm

re: #583 ObserverArt

I think they are saying that. And if it is not clear, it will be soon.

Can they stand up to the pressure it will bring? It’s easy to talk. What happens when they start putting Dreamers in holding centers before shipping them out?

Will the Republicans go that far? This is going to come down to The Republicans being cruel or they fold.

But they do have the power. So they will own the cruelty should it come to that.

That is a huge label on a political party.

They don’t care. This behavior is a plus for their base. Their party is evil to its core — and so are most of the people supporting them

649
ObserverArt  Jan 23, 2018 • 8:51:22pm

re: #647 freetoken

I gather that there is a lot of disquiet with the DNC.

Well, yes, their not so hot on some things.

The Democratic party as a whole, for many years now, has been an umbrella party for the we’re-not-Republicans this or that niche group.

I have long lamented the lack of ideology, stated ideology, for the Democratic Party.

I think I understand why - there is probably no cohesive ideology for a group that tries to embrace atheists and (socially liberal) evangelicals, or old-time labor groups and free-market folk. Conceptually such groupings of people do not belong together, but find themselves in 2018 all opposing the hatred of Trump.

I thought the Democratic party has been this way since the 60s.

It has become the party of others since Kennedy. It’s only gotten more defined and worse.

And for just as long it has picked its nits in public and flung its poo at its own too.

Nothing new. Just another example. DIfferent characters.

650
wheat-dogg  Jan 23, 2018 • 9:45:06pm

re: #544 HappyWarrior

I do recall reading a book by a man who grew up in Apartheid Africa, Mark Mathabane and seeing Cry Freedom in 10th grade. Apartheid always infuriated me to think about. Trevor’s title says it all, he was born a crime and he ain’t much older than me.

Mathabane’s Kaffir Boy?


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