Watch Live: CPAC 2018, Day 2, Featuring Far Right Anti-Muslim Conspiracy Theorist Frank Gaffney

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Oh, here we go. In the Trump era, Birther and extreme anti-Muslim conspiracy theorist Frank Gaffney is no longer persona non grata; this year he gets to harangue the crowd about Sekrit Muslim Plots from the main stage.

(Note: the video begins with the current speaker, but you can set the time back (“rewind” it) to see the others who’ve spoken today, including our illustrious Racist Grandpa in Chief.)

Jump to bottom

147 comments

1
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:15:14am

“Your data compiled over decades all across the United States are meaningless in the face of my racist anecdote!!”

2
SteelPH  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:15:30am

Let the lunacy commence.

3
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:15:45am
4
Dr. Matt  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:16:22am

Frank Gaffney is the definition of a beta male pretending to be an alpha.

5
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:16:38am

re: #1 Blind Frog Belly White

“Your data compiled over decades all across the United States are meaningless in the face of my racist anecdote!!”

Can’t imagine there would have been a panelist at CPAC who would dare to suggest any immigration was OK with this crowd.

6
Charles Johnson  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:16:57am

Right now they’re engaged in a crazy anti-China bashing frenzy, accusing China of being complicit in the “opioid crisis” and deliberately “killing Americans.”

7
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:17:16am

re: #4 Dr. Matt

Frank Gaffney is the definition of a beta male pretending to be an alpha.

More like a delta male trying to be an alpha.

8
electrotek  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:17:20am

So 2 people that were cited by Breivik are prominently featured in CPAC.

Says a lot about their moral compass.

9
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:17:28am

re: #4 Dr. Matt

Frank Gaffney is the definition of a beta male pretending to be an alpha.

See also Gorka, Sebastian, and his 4-cyl Mustang with the “ART*WAR” license plate.

10
electrotek  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:17:42am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Right now they’re engaged in a crazy anti-China bashing frenzy, accusing China of being complicit in the “opioid crisis” and deliberately “killing Americans.”

And on the flipside, praise China for knowing how to “deal with Muslims”.

11
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:18:17am

re: #5 Sir John Barron

Can’t imagine there would have been a panelist at CPAC who would dare to suggest any immigration was OK with this crowd.

“Beautiful Russian Ladies Seek Friendship, Marriage”

12
Charles Johnson  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:18:38am

You can set the time of the video back (“rewind” it) to see the others who’ve spoken today, including our illustrious Racist Grandpa in Chief.

13
Kragar  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:18:46am
14
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:20:13am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Right now they’re engaged in a crazy anti-China bashing frenzy, accusing China of being complicit in the “opioid crisis” and deliberately “killing Americans.”

Quite frankly this seems a little over the head of what I would expect most CPAC attendees to have a handle on. CPACers shouldn’t really have to think much beyond the horror of liberal atheist professors in their coastal enclaves swearing allegiance to the gay Muslim caliphate.

/

15
Scottish Dragon  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:24:06am

re: #13 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Skip the entire holiday weekend.

16
sagehen  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:24:10am

Jordan Klepper has an amusingly fake-Trumpian take on Black Panther:

cc.com

17
Barefoot Grin  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:24:42am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

You can set the time of the video back (“rewind” it) to see the others who’ve spoken today, including our illustrious Racist Grandpa in Chief.

Errr….no thanks….
18
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:25:37am

re: #13 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“I respect the troops too much to have ever become one of them!”

19
SteelPH  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:26:16am

re: #18 Blind Frog Belly White

“I respect the troops too much to have ever become one of them!”

He respects the troops so much he refused to sully their good name by becoming one.

20
Barefoot Grin  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:26:46am

I’d settle for just a regular old parade on Impeachment Day.

21
Dr. Matt  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:27:00am

re: #18 Blind Frog Belly White

“I respect the troops too much to have ever become one of them!”

He “respects” the troops that haven’t been captured.

22
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:28:48am

She is fucked in the head.

23
Joe Bacon 🌹  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:30:38am

So Trump’s pal from OANN is tossing him softballs at the “press conference”…

24
Kragar  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:30:39am
25
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:31:03am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Right now they’re engaged in a crazy anti-China bashing frenzy, accusing China of being complicit in the “opioid crisis” and deliberately “killing Americans.”

Is this the part of the proceedings where the swivel-eyed loons do their mating calls in a large group?

26
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:32:01am

re: #22 JordanRules

She is fucked in the head.

[Embedded content]

“Daddy, the North Koreans were mean to me and didn’t show me proper respect. Burn them to the ground for me, Daddy! Please?”

27
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:32:22am

re: #14 Sir John Barron

Quite frankly this seems a little over the head of what I would expect most CPAC attendees to have a handle on. CPACers shouldn’t really have to think much beyond the horror of liberal atheist professors in their coastal enclaves swearing allegiance to the gay Muslim caliphate.

/

Nah, they saw a movie or TV show set in the late 1800’s with Chinese opium dens… that’s all it takes for them to draw a connection.

28
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:33:59am

re: #26 Blind Frog Belly White

“Daddy, the North Koreans were mean to me and didn’t show me proper respect. Burn them to the ground for me, Daddy! Please?”

Yes, the likeliest path to US nuclear war is a convergence of war porn and incest porn in what passes for the mind of the US president*.

29
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:34:27am

re: #24 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“You’re talking about PILES, not STILTS, so why would we listen to you about how to solve our repeated flooding problem?”

30
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:35:54am

re: #29 Blind Frog Belly White

“You’re talking about PILES, not STILTS, so why would we listen to you about how to solve our repeated flooding problem?”

Me: You know what, I’m going to go build on higher ground over there.

Everyone else in the debate: THAT’S CRAZY TALK!

31
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:36:45am

re: #28 EPR-radar

Yes, the likeliest path to US nuclear war is a convergence of war porn and incest porn in what passes for the mind of the US president*.

32
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:38:28am

re: #31 KGxvi

[Embedded content]

Which, “Incest porn” or “the mind of the US President”?

33
goddamnedfrank  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:38:31am

re: #30 KGxvi

Me: You know what, I’m going to go build on higher ground over there.

Everyone else in the debate: THAT’S CRAZY TALK!

HIGHER GROUND CAN’T MELT STEEL BEAMS!

34
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:39:39am

re: #32 Blind Frog Belly White

Which, “Incest porn” or “the mind of the US President”?

Hey, I was pretty careful to refer to ‘what passes for the mind of the US president*’ :-)

35
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:40:57am

JFC on an electrified barbed wire tightrope over Mt. Doom, juggling nuke-tipped ballistic missiles.

36
dangerman  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:41:03am

re: #31 KGxvi

[Embedded content]

my recently new most favorite show - especially this

YouTube

37
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:42:19am

Here’s the whole thing from Frum, part of an article he wrote in October after Las Vegas:

A parable:

A village has been built in the deepest gully of a floodplain.

At regular intervals, flash floods wipe away houses, killing all inside. Less dramatic—but more lethal—is the steady toll as individual villagers slip and drown in the marshes around them.

After especially deadly events, the villagers solemnly discuss what they might do to protect themselves. Perhaps they might raise their homes on stilts? But a powerful faction among the villagers is always at hand to explain why these ideas won’t work. “No law can keep our village safe! The answer is that our people must learn to be better swimmers - and oh by the way, you said ‘stilts’ when the proper term is ‘piles,’ so why should anybody listen to you?”

So the argument rages, without result, year after year, decade after decade, fatalities mounting all the while. Nearby villages, built in the hills, marvel that the gully-dwellers persist in their seemingly reckless way of life. But the gully-dwellers counter that they are following the wishes of their Founders, whose decisions two centuries ago must always be upheld by their descendants.

38
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:43:15am

re: #22 JordanRules

She is fucked in the head.

@ToddDomke
This may seem like The Onion…but it’s just Trumpian insanity.
1:54 PM - Feb 23, 2018

39
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:44:14am

re: #36 dangerman

my recently new most favorite show - especially this

[Embedded content]

Video

It is without a doubt my favorite show right now. I stumbled onto on Netflix maybe after season 5? And I think I’ve watched the entire series like three or four times since then. I’m so sad that there’s only likely going to be two more seasons.

40
plansbandc  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:44:20am

Oh look, it’s another mean and stupid Republican meme…

41
Belafon  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:47:01am

re: #38 FormerDirtDart

He’s sending Ivanka because he thinks Pence was outsmarted because Kim’s sister is prettier.

42
Romantic Heretic  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:47:16am

re: #5 Sir John Barron

Can’t imagine there would have been a panelist at CPAC who would dare to suggest any immigration was OK with this crowd.

It’s a good thing they don’t allow guns in there.

43
Belafon  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:47:31am

re: #40 plansbandc

Oh look, it’s another mean and stupid Republican meme…

[Embedded content]

Yeah, let’s talk about stupid shit Boomers did when they were young.

44
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:48:10am

re: #43 Belafon

Yeah, let’s talk about stupid shit Boomers did when they were young.

FIFY

45
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:48:10am

re: #40 plansbandc

Oh look, it’s another mean and stupid Republican meme…

[Embedded content]

Yeah, what the fuck would you kids who have been had friends shot to death in front of you, been shot at, and in some cases actually shot know about guns? Shut up and let the grownups sacrifice you on the Altar Of The Gun.

//////

46
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:48:47am

Dude who can’t get clearance.

47
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:49:07am

re: #40 plansbandc

Oh look, it’s another mean and stupid Republican meme…

[Embedded content]

Yeah because these kids were eating Tidal Pods. Fucking right wing assholes.

48
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:49:21am

re: #42 Romantic Heretic

It’s a good thing they don’t allow guns in there.

I’d really be tempted to hack into the PA system if they allowed guns there…

//

49
Belafon  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:49:52am

Also (link plays newscast video),

At least 10 deaths have been linked to ingesting these pods. Two were toddlers, eight were seniors with dementia.

50
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:50:41am

re: #46 JordanRules

Dude who can’t get clearance.

[Embedded content]

Those deals being new locations for Trump (tm) Towers?

Holy shit, I just realized something… there will likely one day be a Trump Presidential Library. I cannot even begin to imagine what fresh hell that would be, given Trump’s design tastes.

51
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:50:48am

re: #43 Belafon

Yeah, let’s talk about stupid shit Boomers did when they were young.

You mean like, “This mind-altering substance I have never tried was cooked up by a college dropout in a dank basement. OF COURSE I’ll try it!”?

52
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:53:43am
53
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:54:39am

Holy shit! One of the things Gates is pleading guilty to is lying to the Mueller investigators DURING HIS PROFFER!!

54
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:55:10am

re: #52 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Has Melania actually done anything other than talk about cyberbullying? It’s frustrating because TBH this would be a great cause for a first lady to have because IT is a problem but Melania, her step son, husband, etc are full of shit.

55
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:56:56am

re: #54 HappyWarrior

No. She’s a fraud too.

56
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:57:23am

re: #53 Blind Frog Belly White

Holy shit! One of the things Gates is pleading guilty to is lying to the Mueller investigators DURING HIS PROFFER!!

[Embedded content]

To quote Deepthroat, these guys aren’t very bright.

57
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:57:40am

re: #51 Blind Frog Belly White

To be fair, though, apparently we were having a lot more sex than Millenials when we were their age. “KIDS! What the heck is wrong with these kids today?”

58
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:57:51am

re: #55 JordanRules

No. She’s a fraud too.

No, I’m saying, the cause itself is worthy but she’s a terrible spokeswoman for it given who she’s married to.

59
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:58:21am

re: #5 Sir John Barron

Can’t imagine there would have been a panelist at CPAC who would dare to suggest any immigration was OK with this crowd.

There has always been a large libertarian crowd at CPAC.

60
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:58:24am

re: #54 HappyWarrior

Has Melania actually done anything other than talk about cyberbullying? It’s frustrating because TBH this would be a great cause for a first lady to have because IT is a problem but Melania, her step son, husband, etc are full of shit.

She could make a huge contribution just by confiscating his phone.

61
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:58:32am

re: #57 Blind Frog Belly White

To be fair, though, apparently we were having a lot more sex than Millenials when we were their age. “KIDS! What the heck is wrong with these kids today?”

We have fewer teen pregnancies yet smug holier than thou wingnut assholes like to attack us for our “lack of morality.”

62
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:58:46am

re: #60 Blind Frog Belly White

She could make a huge contribution just by confiscating his phone.

Change the password!

63
makeitstop  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:59:03am

Plausible.

64
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:59:28am

re: #61 HappyWarrior

We have fewer teen pregnancies yet smug holier than thou wingnut assholes like to attack us for our “lack of morality.”

Hey, I didn’t have ANY!

65
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:59:32am

re: #58 HappyWarrior

I agree. I was answering your question about has she done anything and it’s because she’s a fraud.

66
lizardofid  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:59:34am

re: #51 Blind Frog Belly White

You mean like, “This mind-altering substance I have never tried was cooked up by a college dropout in a dank basement. OF COURSE I’ll try it!”?

“But only 1/2 a tab, till we’re sure”

67
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 11:59:58am

re: #65 JordanRules

I agree. I was answering your question about has she done anything and it’s because she’s a fraud.

Oh? Absolutely then.

68
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:00:34pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

We have fewer teen pregnancies yet smug holier than thou wingnut assholes like to attack us for our “lack of morality.”

I think it’s because you don’t hate the LGBTQ folks enough.

69
Ace-o-aces  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:00:52pm
70
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:01:29pm

re: #68 Blind Frog Belly White

I think it’s because you don’t hate the LGBTQ folks enough.

Yep which makes the idiots label us as soft. Unlike them, I’m actually comfortable in my manhood and heterosexuality.

71
scottslemmons  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:01:38pm

re: #56 HappyWarrior

To quote Deepthroat, these guys aren’t very bright.

Telling Republicans not to lie is like doing the “Shave and a Haircut” gag to Roger Rabbit.

Roger Rabbit irresistible knocks

72
makeitstop  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:02:02pm

‘I thought my business partner would go to prison to keep me from going to prison!’

73
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:03:04pm

re: #69 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Yeah no one ever talks about it ever. It’s almost like we didn’t have any movies about 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, etc. Then again you’re the same genius who thinks we need a movie rating system.

74
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:03:51pm

re: #63 makeitstop

Plausible.

Who amongst us has not lied to the FBI after having been indicted?

//

75
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:04:37pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

Yeah no one ever talks about it ever. It’s almost like we didn’t have any movies about 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, etc. Then again you’re the same genius who thinks we need a movie rating system.

There was no movie or book about Benghazi either.
//

76
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:04:52pm

Cherry picked reporters and no Gates questions. Pathetic.

77
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:05:16pm

re: #74 Sir John Barron

Who amongst us has not lied to the FBI after having been indicted?

//

(raises hand)

78
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:06:01pm

re: #53 Blind Frog Belly White

I can’t even imagine what was going through Gates’ mind to lie during his proffer, when the only way your statements can be used against you is if you lie.

— Matthew Miller

Deep State hoax, man.

/

79
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:06:13pm
80
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:06:51pm

re: #74 Sir John Barron

Who amongst us has not lied to the FBI after having been indicted?

//

It was just a youthful folly. Gates is just a 46 year old kid who made a mistake.

81
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:07:02pm

re: #76 JordanRules

Cherry picked reporters and no Gates questions. Pathetic.

It just vindicates Trumpy.

///

82
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:07:13pm

re: #79 Big Beautiful Door

That’s for sure. Paul Manafort left an incriminating trail of emails when he had Gates doctor some documents for him because Manafort doesn’t know how to convert PDFs into Word documents or vice verse.

Funnily enough, I had to do that for work recently. Convert PDF to Word that is.

83
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:08:08pm

re: #81 Sir John Barron

It just vindicates Trumpy.

///

He only hires the best people.

84
Scottish Dragon  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:09:38pm

Rod Dreher is at it again…..and alicublog is all over it.
alicublog.blogspot.com

Thank God we’ve got Rod Dreher for lulz! Right out of the gate God’s Gastronome gives us a striking comparison:

I get as annoyed with right-wing Second Amendment absolutists who insist that any attempt to control guns will lead to a civil liberties apocalypse as I do with left-wing First Amendment absolutists who hold that any attempt to control access to pornography is welcoming Big Brother.

You’ll get my porn when you pry it from my warm, sticky hands, Dreher! Porn, or what passes for porn at the BenOp compound, turns out to be much on Dreher’s mind: After suggesting school shootings are caused by kids going to large schools — as opposed to the one-room schoolhouse where Rod’s ancestors l’arned to read and cipher — he suggests a connection to stories in magazines like The Lily and Teen Vogue “pushing polyamory,” ass-fucking, ice cream douches and vibrators — “the most tender, intimate expressions of love between a man and a woman, reduced to bestial gestures,” preaches Rod; “…It’s almost as if the dominant culture and its institutions are radically dehumanizing teenagers, and are mystified as to why some of those teenagers don’t see others as human beings worthy of respect and care.”

I wonder what’s the mechanism of action for this — do the antisocial young men who comprise the majority of mass murderers get corrupted by reading Teen Vogue and Vulture? Or do they somehow meet the sort of big-city gals who read these publications, perhaps at potential-mass-murderer mixers, and become intoxicated and corrupted by their intimate Ben & Jerry’s scent?

As usual, the Dreher “reader” “letter” is the highlight:

UPDATE: Reader Matt in VA writes:
I am surprised that you don’t draw out the parallel between school shootings and another common theme on this blog — early-onset transgenderism.

The easy availability of machine guns can’t be the problem; otherwise why would they be so much more scared by the monsters under their beds?

Transgender mass shooters..your hot take of the day.

85
Sir John Barron  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:10:15pm

re: #46 JordanRules

Dude who can’t get clearance.

Working on middle east peace in his spare time.

86
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:10:57pm

re: #84 Scottish Dragon

Rod Dreher is at it again…..and alicublog is all over it.
alicublog.blogspot.com

I don’t read his blog but are we sure “Matt” isn’t trolling him but then again it wouldn’t shock me.

87
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:11:22pm

re: #72 makeitstop

‘I thought my business partner would go to prison to keep me from going to prison!’

Natasha Bertrand

@NatashaBertrand
New statement from Manafort’s spokesman: “I had hoped and expected my business colleague would have had the strength to continue the battle to prove our innocence.”
1:52 PM - Feb 23, 2018
112 112 Replies 169 169 Retweets 286 286 likes

“I had hoped my business colleague would wait for Trump to pardon us. After all, we were all assured that is his intention”

88
Scottish Dragon  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:11:56pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

I don’t read his blog but are we sure “Matt” isn’t trolling him but then again it wouldn’t shock me.

I read the original at Dreher’s blog yesterday. It is just as bad as what Matt says.

89
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:11:59pm

re: #37 Blind Frog Belly White

As if the US founders ever viewed the 2A as an unrestricted individual right to keep and bear arms. Most of them would have crapped themselves at the thought of free blacks or indians having a right to arm themselves at will in any city or town.

Just another nail in the coffin of judicial ‘originalism’.

90
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:13:23pm

re: #89 EPR-radar

As if the US founders ever viewed the 2A as an unrestricted individual right to keep and bear arms. Most of them would have crapped themselves at the thought of free blacks or indians having a right to arm themselves at will in any city or town.

Just another nail in the coffin of judicial ‘originalism’.

Well, let’s be fair, most of the so-called “originalists” are afraid of the same thing.

91
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:13:51pm

re: #69 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Ace, how would Fox know about Obama’s comments about the injured in terror attacks?

They never covered him.

92
Belafon  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:14:11pm

re: #89 EPR-radar

As if the US founders ever viewed the 2A as an unrestricted individual right to keep and bear arms. Most of them would have crapped themselves at the thought of free blacks or indians having a right to arm themselves at will in any city or town.

Just another nail in the coffin of judicial ‘originalism’.

That’s the position of most of the 2nd amendment types today as well.

93
The Major  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:14:57pm

re: #36 dangerman
My favorite Archer Prayer:

Archers “Bloody Mary prayer”

94
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:15:28pm

re: #91 ObserverArt

Ace, how would Fox know about Obama’s comments about the injured in terror attacks?

They never covered him.

They were too busy covering the muslim communist from Kenya who lived in their heads.

95
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:15:48pm

re: #88 Scottish Dragon

I read the original at Dreher’s blog yesterday. It is just as bad as what Matt says.

JFC.

96
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:16:25pm

re: #89 EPR-radar

As if the US founders ever viewed the 2A as an unrestricted individual right to keep and bear arms. Most of them would have crapped themselves at the thought of free blacks or indians having a right to arm themselves at will in any city or town.

Just another nail in the coffin of judicial ‘originalism’.

Correct. Originalism is a sham.

97
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:19:03pm

re: #72 makeitstop

‘I thought my business partner would go to prison to keep me from going to prison!’

[Embedded content]

Manafort is a cocky cuss isn’t he?

I don’t know if anyone caught the video of him hustling out of a building (court?) yesterday with the press running to ask him questions. Across the street was a big black Merc sedan waiting for him. He ran to it and in a hurry to jump in he banged his head on the roof near the front of the door opening.

I guess he was in a hurry.

98
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:20:37pm

re: #97 ObserverArt

Manafort is a cocky cuss isn’t he?

I don’t know if anyone caught the video of him hustling out of a building (court?) yesterday with the press running to ask him questions. Across the street was a big black Merc sedan waiting for him. He ran to it and in a hurry to jump in he banged his head on the roof near the front of the door opening.

I guess he was in a hurry.

Maybe he isn’t up to date on his tetanus shots. Then again, Manafort needs to flip before he dies.

99
petesh  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:21:11pm

re: #74 Sir John Barron

Who amongst us has not lied to the FBI after having been indicted?

//

Gates was lying about a meeting with Rohrabacher (the Rep about whom the “joke” was that Putin paid him). Let us all solemnly pray that poor, misunderstood Dana Rohrabacher is not drawn into this sticky web of deceit.

100
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:21:43pm

re: #92 Belafon

Right. And it can’t be forgotten that they wrote it when they didn’t consider them people at all. Some of that was also enshrined into the document. We fixed that part though.

101
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:22:03pm

re: #99 petesh

Gates was lying about a meeting with Rohrabacher (the Rep about whom the “joke” was that Putin paid him). Let us all solemnly pray that poor, misunderstood Dana Rohrabacher is not drawn into this sticky web of deceit.

To be fair, you can’t really be drawn into something you originated.

102
petesh  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:22:17pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

Maybe he isn’t up to date on his tetanus shots. Then again, Manafort needs to flip before he dies.

Indeed. Manafort needs a food taster, and I for one am not applying for the job.

103
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:24:53pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

Correct. Originalism is a sham.

I think it depends on what you mean by Originalism. There’s the Scalia style strict constructionism that says you have to stay within the four corners of the document and have to consider the words used as the drafters would have used them. That is foolish because you can just impute on the drafters whatever you want and there’s no real way to argue it. Then there’s Thomas’ version of Originalism which is probably closer to original intent - that allows you to look at what the drafters intended but not to try and apply contemporary standards. That might be fine in the context of statutes that we can repeal but it is troubling in the context of constitutional law when you allow the sensibilities of 1790 to govern the world of 2018 - as Rehnquist famously said, “the constitution is not a death pact.”

What always used to annoy me about Scalia is that it was pretty clear he would choose the outcome he wanted and then cherry pick his jurisprudence to get that outcome. Thomas, while I think some of his reasoning is flawed, tends to stick to his jurisprudence regardless of the outcome. Scalia was an opportunist, if you will, while Thomas is an ideologue.

104
petesh  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:25:11pm

re: #101 EPR-radar

To be fair, you can’t really be drawn into something you originated.

C’mon, Dana doesn’t have the brains to be a mastermind. A lackey, I tell you, a mere pawn in a great global game. Spare him his life from the monstrosity!

105
makeitstop  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:25:19pm

re: #99 petesh

Gates was lying about a meeting with Rohrabacher (the Rep about whom the “joke” was that Putin paid him). Let us all solemnly pray that poor, misunderstood Dana Rohrabacher is not drawn into this sticky web of deceit.

Oh, he’s right at the top of my ‘Send that motherfucker to prison’ list.

Well, top 2, anyway.

106
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:25:29pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

Correct. Originalism is a sham.

Correct, its the legal principles established by the Constitution which should be applied, not how we imagine an 18th or 19th century white man would apply them to situations they couldn’t even conceive. For example, same-sex marriage in the 19th century is a nonsensical concept because of the inherent inequality in the male-female relationship built into marriage at that time. Only now that 20th century reforms have made marriage a legal relationship between two equals can we even consider whether same-sex couples are entitled to equal protection of marriage laws.

107
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:26:11pm

re: #99 petesh

Gates was lying about a meeting with Rohrabacher (the Rep about whom the “joke” was that Putin paid him). Let us all solemnly pray that poor, misunderstood Dana Rohrabacher is not drawn into this sticky web of deceit.

As a former resident of Orange County who has spent plenty of time in the district(s) that Rohrabacher represented, and who currently lives one district over from his, I would just like to say:

Fuck that guy.

108
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:26:21pm

re: #103 KGxvi

I think it depends on what you mean by Originalism. There’s the Scalia style strict constructionism that says you have to stay within the four corners of the document and have to consider the words used as the drafters would have used them. That is foolish because you can just impute on the drafters whatever you want and there’s no real way to argue it. Then there’s Thomas’ version of Originalism which is probably closer to original intent - that allows you to look at what the drafters intended but not to try and apply contemporary standards. That might be fine in the context of statutes that we can repeal but it is troubling in the context of constitutional law when you allow the sensibilities of 1790 to govern the world of 2018 - as Rehnquist famously said, “the constitution is not a death pact.”

What always used to annoy me about Scalia is that it was pretty clear he would choose the outcome he wanted and then cherry pick his jurisprudence to get that outcome. Thomas, while I think some of his reasoning is flawed, tends to stick to his jurisprudence regardless of the outcome. Scalia was an opportunist, if you will, while Thomas is an ideologue.

Well stated.

109
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:26:56pm

re: #106 Big Beautiful Door

Correct, its the legal principles established by the Constitution which should be applied, not how we imagine an 18th or 19th century white man would apply them to situations they couldn’t even conceive. For example, same-sex marriage in the 19th century is a nonsensical concept because of the inherent inequality in the male-female relationship built into marriage at that time. Only now that 20th century reforms have made marriage a legal relationship between two equals can we even consider whether same-sex couples are entitled to equal protection of marriage laws.

Right. Absolutely right.

110
makeitstop  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:27:02pm

I hadn’t heard about this.

111
Kilroy was here  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:27:54pm

112
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:28:37pm

re: #110 makeitstop

I hadn’t heard about this.

[Embedded content]

Pleasant surprise there.

113
Ace-o-aces  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:28:41pm
114
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:28:41pm
115
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:30:10pm

re: #100 JordanRules

Right. And it can’t be forgotten that they wrote it when they didn’t consider them people at all. Some of that was also enshrined into the document. We fixed that part though.

Here’s the thing about the constitution and the second amendment. It was written by competent lawyers. Almost all parts of the constitution are admirably clear and to the point, with no surplus commentary of any kind. The mission statement is the preamble, and everything else is dry nuts and bolts.

With the exception of the militia clause of the second amendment. What the hell is that doing there? It is vague and ambiguous, and no amount of textual analysis can resolve that issue.

When lawyers write something that is vague/ambiguous/obfuscated, there is always a reason for it. If you read a contract that is impossible for a normal literate person to understand, that is because you are not supposed to understand what you are being asked to agree to.

Thus with the second amendment. The militia clause is deliberately ambiguous, and the reason it is that way is clear enough. Each state could define the ‘militia’ as they please, and a definition of the militia as able-bodied white men of a certain age (and perhaps class as well) would allow the RKBA to be restricted as the powers that be saw fit.

116
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:31:25pm

re: #113 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

One of the stupidest hot takes. Well done Chuck.

117
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:32:36pm

re: #113 Ace-o-aces

The concept of evil is not difficult at all for US lefties to deal with. Republicans are evil and almost all in the mainstream media abet this evil.

118
Kragar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:33:54pm
119
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:34:06pm

re: #117 EPR-radar

The concept of evil is not difficult at all for US lefties to deal with. Republicans are evil and almost all in the mainstream media abet this evil.

It’s stupid as hell to suggest not believing in God means you don’t have a concept of evil. Then again Woolery is a washed up game show host spending his time on Twitter being stupid.

120
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:34:21pm

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Well stated.

I should add, Originalism when it comes to Constitutional Law would be less troubling if the process of changing the Constitution were not so difficult. There is an argument to be made that our system of government was well designed for a small nation, such as we were at the founding. But it doesn’t necessarily make a lot of sense for a nation of 350 million spread across a continent.

121
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:34:38pm

re: #118 Kragar

[Embedded content]

When do the wingnuts blame the Stoneman kids?

122
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:34:54pm

re: #119 HappyWarrior

It’s stupid as hell to suggest not believing in God means you don’t have a concept of evil. Then again Woolery is a washed up game show host spending his time on Twitter being stupid.

That really is a prize winning bit of stupidity. As if an atheist like me has no basis for judging Hitler to be evil.

123
Kragar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:34:58pm
124
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:35:42pm

re: #120 KGxvi

I should add, Originalism when it comes to Constitutional Law would be less troubling if the process of changing the Constitution were not so difficult. There is an argument to be made that our system of government was well designed for a small nation, such as we were at the founding. But it doesn’t necessarily make a lot of sense for a nation of 350 million spread across a continent.

Right, the country is so different then what it was at it’s fiunding.

125
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:36:01pm

re: #110 makeitstop

I hadn’t heard about this.

[Embedded content]

Good read.

There is a huge opening here for conservatives that may be reluctant to take on the NRA. This guy is one of them. I bet there are many more. Speak up, as now is your chance. The NRA is reeling from the punches, and there are more to come. Jump in and take a cut.

And you can thank the youngsters in Florida for giving you the lifeline to save your own political lives…maybe one day your actual life.

Do I believe in kicking someone when they are down? Yes, when it comes to the NRA…very much yes.

126
EPR-radar  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:36:47pm

re: #125 ObserverArt

Good read.

There is a huge opening here for conservatives that may be reluctant to take on the NRA. This guy is one of them. I bet there are many more. Speak up, as now is your chance. The NRA is reeling from the punches, and there are more to come. Jump in and take a cut.

And you can thank the youngsters in Florida for giving you the lifeline to save your own political lives…maybe one day your actual life.

Do I believe in kicking someone when they are down? Yes, when it comes to the NRA…very much yes.

The NRA needs to end up with the reputation that the KKK presently has.

127
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:37:20pm

I almost never use the word ‘Evil’, because invariably it means “Things I really hate”. AND it’s so often used by people trying to deny the humanity of people who commit horrible acts. By denying humanity to them, we try to put those acts outside of what humans are capable of.

The same is true of people who attribute bad acts to a Devil.

128
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:37:44pm

re: #123 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Why don’t you fuckers stop whining about actually being called out for promoting gun hoarding that leads to tragedies? Karma is a bitch NRA and our country will be better off without you extorting politicians and misrepresenting everyone who doesn’t share your warped view as gun grabbers.

129
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:39:10pm

re: #127 Blind Frog Belly White

I almost never use the word ‘Evil’, because invariably it means “Things I really hate”. AND it’s so often used by people trying to deny the humanity of people who commit horrible acts. By denying humanity to them, we try to put those acts outside of what humans are capable of.

The same is true of people who attribute bad acts to a Devil.

Which is why I hate the mental illness cop out. People don’t want to admit sound minds can and do commit violent acts.

130
BlueSpotinAL  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:40:26pm

“BREAKING: An individual driving a passenger vehicle struck a security barrier near the White House at 17th & E.”

Devin Nunes rushing to get the second memo from the Trump administration that he is going to “write”.

131
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:40:39pm

re: #120 KGxvi

I should add, Originalism when it comes to Constitutional Law would be less troubling if the process of changing the Constitution were not so difficult. There is an argument to be made that our system of government was well designed for a small nation, such as we were at the founding. But it doesn’t necessarily make a lot of sense for a nation of 350 million spread across a continent.

This is why I find it hard to take originalists seriously. Conservatives like originalism because Conservatism is about preserving the prerogatives of the current power structure.

132
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:42:18pm

re: #123 Kragar

[Kragar
@Kragar_LGF
NRA 2016: “BLUE LIVES MATTER!

NRA 2018: “FUCK THE POLICE!”#NRAIsATerroristOrganization

3:32 PM - Feb 23, 2018

A lot of police are finding the NRA is not and has never been your friend. Well, that would be to the clear thinking individuals.

There are a lot of conservative gun nuts in their ranks. But even those guys might be learning the police are NRA pawns. If you want to protect your own butt by outlawing guns you know make your job way more dangerous, they do not have your back.

Matter of fact…don’t look now, but they may just shoot you in that back.

133
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:42:29pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Which is why I hate the mental illness cop out. People don’t want to admit sound minds can and do commit violent acts.

Nazi Germany, the Stanford Prison Experiment, and the Milgram Experiment.

134
lizardofid  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:44:14pm

re: #114 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

If it hasn’t been asked, I wonder if giving the servers of the companies cutting ties a visit, even for a quick browse, might be be interpreted as some “positive reinforcement”?

If there’s a place on their site for comments, I’ll give em a little pat on the back.

135
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:45:08pm

re: #133 Blind Frog Belly White

Nazi Germany, the Stanford Prison Experiment, and the Milgram Experiment.

Yep.

136
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:45:41pm

Especially if you lie to the prosecutor when trying to cut a deal.

137
JordanRules  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:46:08pm

re: #114 JordanRules

Hertz is out now!

138
VegasGolfer  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:46:16pm

re: #113 Ace-o-aces

re: #113 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

These people are truly lost.

139
makeitstop  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:47:11pm

re: #138 VegasGolfer

[Embedded content]

These people are truly lost.

Can’t tell the villains without a scorecard.

140
BlueGrl21  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:47:26pm

re: #132 ObserverArt

A lot of police are finding the NRA is not and has never been your friend. Well, that would be to the clear thinking individuals.

There are a lot of conservative gun nuts in their ranks. But even those guys might be learning the police are NRA pawns. If you want to protect your own butt by outlawing guns you know make your job way more dangerous, they do not have your back.

Matter of fact…don’t look now, but they may just shoot you in that back.

Yep. Lots of NRA members in law enforcement. They’ve never understood a scorpion will sting you after you carry it across a river because it’s their nature. The NRA is not your friend.

141
KGxvi  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:49:02pm

re: #131 Blind Frog Belly White

This is why I find it hard to take originalists seriously. Conservatives like originalism because Conservatism is about preserving the prerogatives of the current power structure.

There are also issues of how we apply certain parts of the constitution. Without the Court using the doctrine of Incorporation and applying the Bill of Rights to the states via the Due Process Clause, the rights stated therein could have been rendered meaningless. Originalists have no real way of dealing with that beyond, “well it’s not there so it should be left to the various legislatures.” We saw that with a lot of the gay rights cases, Scalia’s view was that because laws against homosexuality weren’t overtly religious (or wouldn’t have been thought of in that way at the time), there’s nothing the Court could do about it.

142
allegro  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:49:14pm

re: #134 lizardofid

If it hasn’t been asked, I wonder if giving the servers of the companies cutting ties a visit, even for a quick browse, might be be interpreted as some “positive reinforcement”?

If there’s a place on their site for comments, I’ll give em a little pat on the back.

I get the sentiment and I’m pleased they are now cutting ties. However I find it hard to give a cookie for doing the right thing NOW when the opinion tide has finally turned loud while supporting/promoting the NRA all these years while the blood has flowed.

143
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:51:27pm

re: #136 Blind Frog Belly White

Especially if you lie to the prosecutor when trying to cut a deal.

Laura Ingraham

@IngrahamAngle
Prosecutors with unlimited resources can force almost anyone to crack under pressure.

11:09 AM - Feb 23, 2018

Laura Ingraham: You can take My Trump™ when you pry his grabby little hands off my cold dead ****y!”

144
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:53:27pm

re: #137 JordanRules

Hertz is out now!

[Embedded content]

I wonder if Wayne LaP is a drinker?

Or is he locked in a room mainlining black powder?

145
HappyWarrior  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:53:47pm

re: #138 VegasGolfer

[Embedded content]

These people are truly lost.

Yeah Jared is funded by Soros. Makes total sense.

146
ObserverArt  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:56:31pm

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Yeah Jared is funded by Soros. Makes total sense.

I never knew that you could get the DTs by being too drunk on conspiracy theories.

147
lizardofid  Feb 23, 2018 • 12:58:50pm

re: #142 allegro

I get the sentiment and I’m pleased they are now cutting ties. However I find it hard to give a cookie for doing the right thing NOW when the opinion tide has finally turned loud while supporting/promoting the NRA all these years while the blood has flowed.

Understood. But you can bet they’ll be getting gutted by the nra side.


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