New Study: Evangelicals Continue Supporting Trump Because of Christian Nationalism

Politics • Views: 34,623

Here’s an interesting and disturbing new study based on data from the Baylor Religion Survey, that provides an explanation for Trump’s continued support among evangelical types despite his affairs with Playboy models and porn stars.

If this is accurate, the real reason they’re still cheering for Trump is because they see him as an instrument chosen by God to bring about a Christian nationalist state in the US — specifically, a white Christian nationalist state. And this is why it’s impossible to argue them out of their support; it was never based on rational reasoning in the first place.

Why are white Christians sticking so closely to President Trump, despite these claims of sexual indiscretions? And why are religious individuals and groups that previously decried sexual impropriety among political leaders suddenly willing to give Trump a “mulligan” on his infidelity?

Our new study points to a different answer than others have offered. Voters’ religious tenets aren’t what is behind Trump support; rather, it’s Christian nationalism — their view of the United States as a fundamentally Christian nation.

And this Christian nationalism is closely tied to another viewpoint: xenophobic fear of Muslims.

Finally, the various cultural explanations that other researchers have examined didn’t predict Trump support in our study, with one notable exception: anti-Muslim sentiment. How much a U.S. voter feared Muslims was as significant in predicting who voted for Trump as Christian nationalism. Overall the strongest predictors of Trump voting were the usual suspects of political identity and race, followed closely by Islamophobia and Christian nationalism.

I think what we’re seeing here is the direct result of decades of poisonous indoctrination by religious right organizations and the right wing media, who’ve been telling conservative Christians America is their country and it’s under attack by hordes of dark-skinned scary people.

In 2018, religious fanaticism and hatred of “the other” seem stronger than ever in the United States.

Jump to bottom

289 comments
1
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:03:25am

He is an imperfect vessel for implementing God’s Will on Earth

2
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:06:29am
3
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:07:15am

Donald Trump and the circumstance of evangelical support are visible proof of a dark truth. We were not ready mature enough for a black president, and this backlash may ruin us.
Edited

4
jaunte  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:08:24am
I think what we’re seeing here is the direct result of decades of poisonous indoctrination by religious right organizations and the right wing media, who’ve been telling conservative Christians America is their country and it’s under attack by hordes of dark-skinned scary people.

We experienced some of this at LGF during the ‘creationism wars’, and the great exodus of conservative commenters.

5
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:11:12am
If this is accurate, the real reason they’re still cheering for Trump is because they see him as an instrument chosen by God to bring about a Christian nationalist state in the US —

That is what they keep saying. It seems like they’re literally insane.

6
Kragar  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:11:16am
7
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:15:14am
8
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:16:30am
9
jaunte  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:17:49am
10
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:18:01am
11
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:19:28am

re: #4 jaunte

We experienced some of this at LGF during the ‘creationism wars’, and the great exodus of conservative commenters.

I joined LGF when that was going on and was impressed that for all the political conservatism still going on here, they were not going to suffer creationist fools lightly.

12
jaunte  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:20:38am

re: #11 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The strangest departure remains the dowsing flounce.

13
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:21:39am

re: #6 Kragar

[Embedded content]

How do you defund a man’s money?

14
Jay C  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:23:06am

This is why (as I was going to comment on the previous thread), I think the idea of a Border Wall (whoever pays for) is not going to die off soon - regardless of how stupid an idea it is, or who is likely to pay for it - or not, or however ineffective/wasteful it might be.

Since (AFAICT) rage fueled by xenophobic prejudice seems to be the main driver of the “Trump base’s” attitudes on “immigration issues”, * Building The Wall is going to be promoted and supported by that base as a (literally) concrete expression of their exclusionary bigotry. All wrapped up in Very Serious Concerns about The Law, of course: but likely to shamble on as a zombie policy long after Trump is gone.

* and “economic anxiety”, too: though real economic anxieties, not just the glib citation of them as an excuse for voters’ prejudices. Not a carefully-examined issue.

15
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:26:48am

re: #14 Jay C

This is why (as I was going to comment on the previous thread), I think the idea of a Border Wall (whoever pays for) is not going to die off soon - regardless of how stupid an idea it is, or who is likely to pay for it - or not, or however ineffective/wasteful it might be.

Now it seems Trump has implied that it can be paid for out of the military budget as it is a national security issue…just like the Atlantic Wall or the Maginot Line, I guess…

16
Charles Johnson  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:27:27am
17
electrotek  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:27:36am

An excellent refutation of Eagles of Death Metal frontman’s comments from a couple of years back:

Facebook Post

18
Eventual Carrion  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:28:30am

re: #9 jaunte

[Embedded content]

YOU WERE SPANKING! YOU WERE SPANKING!

19
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:28:45am

re: #13 dangerman

How do you defund a man’s money?

20
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:30:33am

re: #19 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

Zactly

21
Eventual Carrion  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:31:46am

re: #19 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

Man that Steve King is a fucking moran.

22
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:33:06am

re: #21 Eventual Carrion

Man that Steve King is a fucking moran.

Bigots think he’s great.

23
Hecuba's daughter  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:33:12am

re: #21 Eventual Carrion

Man that Steve King is a fucking moran.

He’s worse than that. He is a racist POS and so is anyone who votes for him.

24
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:39:03am

Ben Garrison’s hot take on March For Our Lives (in spoiler tags because he is freaking insane)

Click to Reveal
25
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:40:00am

re: #23 Hecuba’s daughter

He’s worse than that. He is a racist POS and so is anyone who votes for him.

It seems like being a moron leads to things like racism, and other misdirected hate. Too few morons take the amiable dunce route these days. They’re stupid, and they won’t put up with anyone being smarter than they are.

26
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:41:01am
27
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:41:28am

moron

28
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:42:30am
29
Mike Lamb  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:42:49am

re: #13 dangerman

How do you defund a man’s money?

Because shut up, that’s how.

30
ObserverArt  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:42:57am

re: #21 Eventual Carrion

Man that Steve King is a fucking moran.

31
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:42:58am
32
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:44:25am
33
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:47:11am

it’s the modern version of “I buy Playboy for the articles.”

34
ObserverArt  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:48:16am

Mr. President, when did you stop having unprotected sex with Ms. Daniels and was that also near the time you began threatening her?

(The question I would ask…heh)

35
Belafon  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:52:28am

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

it’s the modern version of “I buy Playboy for the articles.”

I don’t mind the subtitle of this whole thing being “Come for the sex, stay for the campaign violations.”

36
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:53:52am

re: #35 Belafon

I don’t mind the subtitle of this whole thing being “Come for the sex, stay for the campaign violations.”

Phrasing…..

37
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:54:35am

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

it’s the modern version of “I buy Playboy for the articles.”

I’ve always assumed that that is true. Playboy had great articles, and was only slightly more pornographic than the Sears catalog.

38
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 11:57:34am
39
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:00:15pm
40
The Ghost of a Flea  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:00:46pm

Ahem.

Christian nationalists excuse Trump because their entire theology is built around making excuses for the actions of the powerful and the blaming the suffering for their own misfortune. In the current moment they routinely excuse financial exploitation and sexual and physical abuse, so long as it’s kept quiet…and simultaneously frame the victimized as the sinners and the instigators.

When they envision a “Christian nation,” part of the vision is the continuation of that distinction by which there’s a hierarchy of who can get away with what, not just legally but spiritually.

Donald Trump is not some kind of exception they’re making, he’s is the capstone of what they already do: abuse power and re-invent supposedly “sacred” concepts as needed to justify it.

41
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:01:33pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

meh. argues that “this story isn’t about sex.” but everybody is watching just to hear sex details. and there’s a reason this story is being talked about, where every other corrupt trump story gets ignored. sex makes it non-boring enough for country to pay attention.

a quote for the now disgraced Kevin Spacey’s charager in House of Cards:

“everything is about sex. except sex. sex is about power”

and yes, consensual sex between adults in their spare time is their own concern. the only thing of interest with SD is if she was paid off using campaign funds or in some other illegal manner.

42
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:06:56pm
43
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:08:42pm
44
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:10:02pm

re: #42 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

“There’s nothing to corroborate her claim.”

I don’t think she can prove it
Is not
It never happened

45
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:13:12pm
46
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:14:12pm

but this is a net win for Trump: it distract from all the other damage his people are doing to the nation and its governmental institutions and people

nobody had any illusions about his character when he ran for office, this is just lurid details coming to light

47
Dr. Matt  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:14:28pm

It’s hard to believe that the goon that threatened Stormy hasn’t been identified. Trump’s inner thug circle isn’t that large.

48
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:14:49pm
49
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:15:52pm

hahahahahahahaha

*wipes eyes*

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

50
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:16:42pm

re: #47 Dr. Matt

It’s hard to believe that the goon that threatened Stormy hasn’t been identified. Trump’s inner thug circle isn’t that large.

They could have just sent some schmoe and paid him a couple hundred to ‘deliver a message.’ Vegas is crawling with wannabe tough guys.

51
Dr. Matt  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:17:34pm

re: #50 makeitstop

They could have just sent some schmoe and paid him a couple hundred to ‘deliver a message.’ Vegas is crawling with wannabe tough guys.

Yeah, good point.

52
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:17:39pm

re: #50 makeitstop

They could have just sent some schmoe and paid him a couple hundred to ‘deliver a message.’ Vegas is crawling with wannabe tough guys.

That was just Locker Room Talk…

53
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:17:50pm

re: #49 Backwoods_Sleuth

hahahahahahahaha

*wipes eyes*

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Embedded content]

Oh okay.

54
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:20:13pm

re: #46 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

but this is a net win for Trump: it distract from all the other damage his people are doing to the nation and its governmental institutions and people

nobody had any illusions about his character when he ran for office, this is just lurid details coming to light

those with their eyes on the ball are sticking with the last paragraph of your #41

55
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:20:17pm

In other news, I’m somehow very pleased with myself that I used the word ‘schmoe.’

56
ObserverArt  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:20:48pm

re: #50 makeitstop

They could have just sent some schmoe and paid him a couple hundred to ‘deliver a message.’ Vegas is crawling with wannabe tough guys.

Cohen: “Look Don, I got a friend of a friend out in Vegas. We give him some money he goes and scares this broad. It’s easy and clean. We do this all the time. I tell you, she’ll shut up. He’s not connected to me in any way…just some guy that does odd jobs like this. I’m told he’s good. Big dude, scary. We’re good.”

57
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:21:09pm

can’t confirm stuff when you have no qualified staff.

58
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:22:48pm
59
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:23:00pm

re: #49 Backwoods_Sleuth

hahahahahahahaha

*wipes eyes*

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

“False charges are settled out of court all the time,” Raj Shah says, of why Trump paid Stormy Daniels $130K in hush money.

wait - she threatened him?
him and his crack team of only the best lawyers and apparently, thugs?

and if wildly so, doesnt that pretty much prove he’s vulnerable?

60
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:23:24pm

ONE PERCENT OF REDDIT USERS CAUSE 75 PERCENT OF THE DRAMA (The Outline)

This chart truly makes Reddit users look like toxic bacteria battling for dominance on a tiny slide of agar, but what it actually indicates is that just 1 percent of all Reddit communities set off 74 percent of all conflicts on the site.

Redditors that specialize in memes, advice, and “controversial topics”—which the authors explicitly define as frequenters of r/conspiracy or r/theredpill—are the worst offenders, according to the authors. But the study also found that when Reddit users spoke directly with the people they were targeting, or spoke with the people targeting them, the conflict was more likely to de-escalate.

The study didn’t touch upon Reddit users that target, harass, and dox people who don’t use Reddit—a looming gap considering Reddit’s problem with violent white supremacist and misogynist threats. However, the study does provide a useful glance at where aggression on Reddit begins, and the concentrated scale of the problem.

61
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:25:32pm

re: #56 ObserverArt

Cohen: “Look Don, I got a friend of a friend out in Vegas. We give him some money he goes and scares this broad. It’s easy and clean. We do this all the time. I tell you, she’ll shut up. He’s not connected to me in any way…just some guy that does odd jobs like this. I’m told he’s good. Big dude, scary. We’re good.”

He did call Saul

62
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:27:59pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

Considering history, it’s even worse that Netanyahu is lying about the “Lügenpresse” to create a post-reality Israel, than when Trump does it.

63
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:29:38pm

Charles, per the headline of this article, I could’ve told you that subjectively. You know my story and my experiences with fishfolk and my family’s friends back home in fish country. I keep saying that evangelicals vote for Republicans because they view the GOP as the “Party of God”, and that’s not an exaggeration. Because of the Southern Strategy and how the Republicans were able to pivot and capture the attention of the evangelicals, they have now secured a fanatical power base that will vote for them literally no matter what they do. They can literally do no wrong, because at the end of the day, the Republicans are seen as “more Christian” (in the aggregate) than the Democrats, and thus they are the party to vote for in order to ensure their theocracy-on-earth comes to pass.

The worst part about all of that diatribe is, it’s literally the last thing Jesus would want.

64
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:30:14pm

re: #54 dangerman

those with their eyes on the ball are sticking with the last paragraph of your #41

most of us have out eyes directed elsewhere…

65
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:30:26pm

Twitter moves to ban crypto ads (TechCrunch)

Twitter is the latest social service to boot out cryptocurrency advertisers. The company told Reuters it will be launching a new policy this week to prohibit the advertising of token sales/initial coin offerings (ICOs), and crypto wallet services.

Ads for cryptocurrency exchanges will also be banned — with some limited exceptions.

Facebook announced a ban in January, while Google said earlier this month that it will ban them from June.

Twitter confirmed the policy change to us, providing the following statement: “We are committed to ensuring the safety of the Twitter community. As such, we have added a new policy for Twitter Ads relating to cryptocurrency. Under this new policy, the advertisement of Initial Coin Offerings (ICOs) and token sales will be prohibited globally.”

66
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:30:35pm

re: #58 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Bibi went full Trump. Never go full Trump, Bibi!

67
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:31:26pm

‘Methvanka.’

68
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:32:48pm

re: #67 makeitstop

‘Methvanka.’

[Embedded content]

You sound surprised Ann.

69
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:38:09pm

re: #63 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

…
The worst part about all of that diatribe is, it’s literally the last thing Jesus would want.

a coupla comments from this same study posted at political-wire.com

support of Trump by evangelicals is going to kill their movement for decades. No younger person will ever support an organization that is so obviously hypocritical.

I think what’s most striking about this — and shouldn’t have been shocking in retrospect, based on the data we already had … is that in America now politics drives religion, not the other way around.

Put less charitably, these believers don’t behave as if their faith was really important to them, or even particularly real. What *is* real to them is raw temporal power - and the feeling that it is slipping away.

And yes, the fact that they are driving away even their own children isn’t dissuading them — and I am convinced that many of them realize it. It’s as if they feel they’ve already lost the battle for the next generation and the future. All they know how to do is to try to force people back in their direction, because persuasion is no longer an option.

I’ve got a much simpler answer: Evangelicals are just as big of hypocrites as Liberals and Democrats have been saying they are for 40+ years

edited to fix link

70
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:40:12pm

re: #69 dangerman

I’ve got a much simpler answer: Evangelicals are just as big of hypocrites as Liberals and Democrats have been saying they are for 40+ years

there are some gullible and misguided ones who truly believe what the pulpit pimps and cynical manipulators tell them, the rest are cynical bastards themselves.

71
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:40:37pm

Statement by the Acting Director of FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection Regarding Reported Concerns about Facebook Privacy Practices (FTC)

Faceboook under investigation for scraping call and messaging data from phones.

There are people I only see on Facebook, but I’m still thinking about deleting Facebook. They’re a menace.

72
freetoken  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:41:05pm

re: #65 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

The past few months, every time I went to my twitter account I’d have to block people who followed me, as they only did so to push cryptocurrency.

73
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:43:24pm

re: #69 dangerman

I really can’t disagree with anything that was said. It’s been sad to watch from the sidelines while politically ambitious assholes torpedo our churches into oblivion.

74
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:47:45pm

re: #73 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

I really can’t disagree with anything that was said. It’s been sad to watch from the sidelines while politically ambitious assholes torpedo our churches into oblivion.

my catholic upbringing made me skeptical of religion but it was the Campus Crusade for Christ assholes in our dormitories that really put me off Christianity for a very long time.

It was not until years later that I met some people who quietly lived their Christian faith, professing it without preaching it, that got me to appreciate the positive aspects of it (although not enough to convert me )

75
Mike Lamb  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:50:06pm

re: #49 Backwoods_Sleuth

hahahahahahahaha

*wipes eyes*

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Embedded content]

Quite the coincidence that the amount paid matches the precise amount discussed in the confidentiality agreement. To say nothing of the fact that he has the motivations of the parties and who would be trying to “settle” completely backwards.

76
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:50:59pm

re: #69 dangerman

a coupla comments from this same study posted at political-wire.com

edited to fix link

Put less charitably, these believers don’t behave as if their faith was really important to them, or even particularly real. What *is* real to them is raw temporal power - and the feeling that it is slipping away.

One could argue that this is what religion has often been about. From the time Christianity became a state sponsored religion, it was used in ways to justify all kinds of terrible things, but mostly to keep the powerful in power and everyone else subservient. It’s just been, for lack of a better word, democratized in the last half century or so.

77
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:51:15pm

re: #74 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

my catholic upbringing made me skeptical of religion but it was the Campus Crusade for Christ assholes in our dormitories that really put me off Christianity for a very long time.

It was not until years later that I met some people who quietly lived their Christian faith, professing it without preaching it, that got me to appreciate the positive aspects of it (although not enough to convert me or)

Evangelicals are all about that in-your-face, turn-or-burn message that always rubbed me the wrong way. It’s like they think you can’t be converted unless they’re holding a (metaphorical or literal) gun to your head. I’m not sure whatever happened to the concept of, “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in Heaven.”

78
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:52:07pm

re: #75 Mike Lamb

Quite the coincidence that the amount paid matches the precise amount discussed in the confidentiality agreement. To say nothing of the fact that he has the motivations of the parties and who would be trying to “settle” completely backwards.

What was Daniels’ claim? There is no reference to a lawsuit that is being dismissed as part of this agreement… so, um… yeah.

79
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:53:02pm

re: #72 freetoken

The past few months, every time I went to my twitter account I’d have to block people who followed me, as they only did so to push cryptocurrency.

I haven’t seen that, but it must have become a big problem.

80
Dave In Austin  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:55:30pm

re: #67 makeitstop

‘Methvanka.’

[Embedded content]

81
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:57:27pm

To me, what I find interesting about Evangelicals as I drive by megachurches is how extravagant they’ve become and how Evangelicals early on criticized Catholics and Anglicans for being too posh and going against the original simple message of Christ. Somewhere that changed.

82
Belafon  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:57:48pm

re: #76 KGxvi

One could argue that this is what religion has often been about. From the time Christianity became a state sponsored religion, it was used in ways to justify all kinds of terrible things, but mostly to keep the powerful in power and everyone else subservient. It’s just been, for lack of a better word, democratized in the last half century or so.

A lot of religions start out explaining why, no matter how good you are, you still suffer. Then, when they become popular, they get coopted by those in power for their own ends.

83
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 12:59:49pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

To me, what I find interesting about Evangelicals as I drive by megachurches is how extravagant they’ve become and how Evangelicals early on criticized Catholics and Anglicans for being too posh and going against the original simple message of Christ. Somewhere that changed.

It’s easy to be a communist when you’ve got no money, and it’s really easy to be a capitalist when you’ve got a lot of money.

84
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:00:26pm

re: #83 KGxvi

It’s easy to be a communist when you’ve got no money, and it’s really easy to be a capitalist when you’ve got a lot of money.

Yep.

85
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:01:47pm

re: #80 Dave In Austin

cotdam, I clicked to see what that was about, then I saw a retweet about a woman and her dad who was in a car accident involving an undocumented person that turned into a hit and run with dad eventually having a stroke… the whole thread was about how we need a wall and to get rid of all of “them.”

86
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:02:16pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

To me, what I find interesting about Evangelicals as I drive by megachurches is how extravagant they’ve become and how Evangelicals early on criticized Catholics and Anglicans for being too posh and going against the original simple message of Christ. Somewhere that changed.

Somewhere along the line, churches became less about “giving to those who have need” and more about “fuck those guys, they’re the government’s problem”. I used to say that in my ideal world, the churches would provide the social safety net out of Christian generosity; I’ve been disabused of that notion by several arguments, but I still believe they should be donating the excess of their wealth and not spending it all on upgrades and bling. You can’t convince me that Jesus wants your pastoral leadership to fly in a private jet. There’s arguments to be made for technology upgrades to churches to keep up with the cyber world, but anything beyond that is frivolous.

87
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:06:40pm

re: #86 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Somewhere along the line, churches became less about “giving to those who have need” and more about “fuck those guys, they’re the government’s problem”. I used to say that in my ideal world, the churches would provide the social safety net out of Christian generosity; I’ve been disabused of that notion by several arguments, but I still believe they should be donating the excess of their wealth and not spending it all on upgrades and bling. You can’t convince me that Jesus wants your pastoral leadership to fly in a private jet. There’s arguments to be made for technology upgrades to churches to keep up with the cyber world, but anything beyond that is frivolous.

I never bought into the private/religious social safety net because it always came with strings attached. We have been seeing that lately with adoption/foster care groups arguing that they shouldn’t have to send kids to homes of non-believers (which, soon enough will become not devout enough believers, which I’m sure will eventually become “we need better tithing). People in need shouldn’t have to pretend they believe something just to get help.

As for how churches spend their money, as a non-believer, I don’t care - that’ll be between them and their god of choice.

88
Belafon  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:06:56pm

re: #86 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

My father-in-law was a pastor. He worked some very tiny churches, and tended to receive a lot of food for his services. Because of that, he worked security at Arkansas State University.

What megachurches offer is a full, sometimes really full, paycheck for the pastor and probably a number of other people.

89
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:07:07pm

re: #86 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Somewhere along the line, churches became less about “giving to those who have need” and more about “fuck those guys, they’re the government’s problem”. I used to say that in my ideal world, the churches would provide the social safety net out of Christian generosity; I’ve been disabused of that notion by several arguments, but I still believe they should be donating the excess of their wealth and not spending it all on upgrades and bling. You can’t convince me that Jesus wants your pastoral leadership to fly in a private jet. There’s arguments to be made for technology upgrades to churches to keep up with the cyber world, but anything beyond that is frivolous.

Exactly. I don’t mind a minister having a car or a computer or anything like that but the private jets and then trying to justify it biblically. Just come on man. You want to treat yourself and that’s fine but don’t tell me that it’s what the Allmighty wants, it’s what you want.

90
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:08:12pm

re: #87 KGxvi

I never bought into the private/religious social safety net because it always came with strings attached. We have been seeing that lately with adoption/foster care groups arguing that they shouldn’t have to send kids to homes of non-believers (which, soon enough will become not devout enough believers, which I’m sure will eventually become “we need better tithing). People in need shouldn’t have to pretend they believe something just to get help.

As for how churches spend their money, as a non-believer, I don’t care - that’ll be between them and their god of choice.

I always thought that people had way too much faith in churches and charities, ignoring how the former can be exclusionary to those not in the flock and the corruption that does exist in the latter. The public sector isn’t perfect of course but thinking all charity should be private is an extremely naivete position IMO.

91
electrotek  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:09:32pm

NME: Jesse Hughes, shut the fuck up, for the love of God

92
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:09:34pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

Exactly. I don’t mind a minister having a car or a computer or anything like that but the private jets and then trying to justify it biblically. Just come on man. You want to treat yourself and that’s fine but don’t tell me that it’s what the Allmighty wants, it’s what you want.

Like, our church is spending a whole lot of money on infrastructure to support live streaming their services. It’s a niche, but it’s also a growing niche and it’s an easy way to reach people - “Hey, you don’t have to come to church on Sunday, but at least check out our services at this Web address. Our pastor has a lot of good, relevant things to say.” That’s a good investment. “Hey, I want to fly all over the world and pimp my book” is not.

93
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:10:19pm

My Dad’s uncle was a Catholic priest down in Lafayette, Louisiana. It was a poor and predominately African-American congregation from what I’ve been told. I doubt Uncle Bill lived a lavish life and when WWII broke out, he received a commission as a chaplain and ended up serving in the Bulge. Either because of his war experiences or accelerated by it, he struggled with alcoholism. I also know that even though my great grandfather was fairly religious, he didn’t want the priest’s life for his only son.

94
Stanley Sea  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:10:53pm
95
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:11:21pm

re: #76 KGxvi

One could argue that this is what religion has often been about. From the time Christianity became a state sponsored religion, it was used in ways to justify all kinds of terrible things, but mostly to keep the powerful in power and everyone else subservient. It’s just been, for lack of a better word, democratized in the last half century or so.

absolutely

as i let the commenters i pirated speak for themselves ;-), i think the hypocrisy and pretzel twisting are reaching new and amusing contortions to justify things

96
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:11:47pm

re: #92 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Like, our church is spending a whole lot of money on infrastructure to support live streaming their services. It’s a niche, but it’s also a growing niche and it’s an easy way to reach people - “Hey, you don’t have to come to church on Sunday, but at least check out our services at this Web address. Our pastor has a lot of good, relevant things to say.” That’s a good investment. “Hey, I want to fly all over the world and pimp my book” is not.

Yeah a website is fine. A more modern version of a church bulletin. I don’t expect ministers to live in poverty but the whole flying around the world in a jet and promoting books just seems to be against the spirit of Christianity to me.

97
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:12:18pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

It’s a strange world that I’ve started to grudgingly like Ted Olson.

98
lawhawk  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:12:54pm
99
lawhawk  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:16:33pm

re: #97 HappyWarrior

It’s a strange world that I’ve started to grudgingly like Ted Olson.

Olson is establishment GOP.

He also knows ins and outs of policy and the law.

He’s everything Trump isn’t - knowledgeable, intelligent, and rational. Olson could just as easily argue either side of any case he’s involved in because he knows that’s what good lawyers do. He also knows that Trump is the absolute worst kind of client to ever have because he thinks he knows better than his lawyers and will do whatever he wants regardless of what his lawyers tell him.

Trump only wants to hear things that he agrees with - and in this kind of case, that’s few and far between. Olson would clamp down on Trump’s tweets and limit his communications to a select channel through Olson’s office, and Trump would never go for it because Trump wants to try and prove he’s the smartest guy in the room (Narrator: he isn’t).

Oh, and Olson’s probably thinking that Trump will stiff the firm on billables.

100
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:16:34pm

re: #87 KGxvi

I never bought into the private/religious social safety net because it always came with strings attached. We have been seeing that lately with adoption/foster care groups arguing that they shouldn’t have to send kids to homes of non-believers (which, soon enough will become not devout enough believers, which I’m sure will eventually become “we need better tithing). People in need shouldn’t have to pretend they believe something just to get help.

As for how churches spend their money, as a non-believer, I don’t care - that’ll be between them and their god of choice.

but dontcha see?
if all houses of worship participated in the safety net, you could choose the one you’re comfortable with //

not sure how that would work for agnostic/athiests

nor if there wasnt one of your “denominational comfort” in the place where you happened to fall on hard luck

101
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:21:54pm

re: #99 lawhawk

Olson is establishment GOP.

He also knows ins and outs of policy and the law.

He’s everything Trump isn’t - knowledgeable, intelligent, and rational. Olson could just as easily argue either side of any case he’s involved in because he knows that’s what good lawyers do. He also knows that Trump is the absolute worst kind of client to ever have because he thinks he knows better than his lawyers and will do whatever he wants regardless of what his lawyers tell him.

Trump only wants to hear things that he agrees with - and in this kind of case, that’s few and far between. Olson would clamp down on Trump’s tweets and limit his communications to a select channel through Olson’s office, and Trump would never go for it because Trump wants to try and prove he’s the smartest guy in the room (Narrator: he isn’t).

Oh, and Olson’s probably thinking that Trump will stiff the firm on billables.

Right it’s more than that. It’s standing up for Muslims and representing same sex clients pro Bono challenging Prop 8. He’s done a lot in his retirement from presidential administrations that he hasn’t had to and I like him for that. But you got that right.

102
electrotek  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:22:34pm

And the wingnut love is trickling in:

103
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:25:06pm

This just keeps getting better.

104
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:25:46pm
105
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:26:17pm

re: #104 gocart mozart

Ben Garrison is an asshole.

106
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:31:11pm

re: #77 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Evangelicals are all about that in-your-face, turn-or-burn message that always rubbed me the wrong way. It’s like they think you can’t be converted unless they’re holding a (metaphorical or literal) gun to your head. I’m not sure whatever happened to the concept of, “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in Heaven.”

This. But then, I think lots of the actual message of Jesus (especially when he’s channeling his rabbinical side) gets lost because people - believers and non-believers - want to think he’s only about the hyperbolic “hard sayings”.

I tell the people at church that the only way to evangelize is to be a Christian. When you do it right - when you live in love of god & neighbor, love mercy, do justly & walk humbly with god - only then people will say I want to live like that. This has nothing to do with abortion or LGBTQ or even belief vs non-belief. It is everything to do with this:

And that is where those who call themselves “evangelical” are failing.

107
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:32:31pm

re: #106 William Lewis

This. But then, I think lots of the actual message of Jesus (especially when he’s channeling his rabbinical side) gets lost because people - believers and non-believers - want to think he’s only about the hyperbolic “hard sayings”.

I tell the people at church that the only way to evangelize is to be a Christian. When you do it right - when you live in love of god & neighbor, love mercy, do justly & walk humbly with god - only then people will say I want to live like that. This has nothing to do with abortion or LGBTQ or even belief vs non-belief. It is everything to do with this:

[Embedded content]

And that is where those who call themselves “evangelical” are failing.

I have that picture bookmarked somewhere. I love it. I got it from some of my more liberal Christian friends in a private Facebook group.

108
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:34:23pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

Exactly. I don’t mind a minister having a car or a computer or anything like that but the private jets and then trying to justify it biblically. Just come on man. You want to treat yourself and that’s fine but don’t tell me that it’s what the Allmighty wants, it’s what you want.

My priest and I were laughing at the private jets the other day. I can think of several ministries where a jet might be useful or even needed. Usually medical or refugee oriented. But a pastor who wants to fly? Get in sardine class with the hoi polloi, rev.

109
goddamnedfrank  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:37:29pm

re: #108 William Lewis

I can think of several ministries where a jet might be useful or even needed. Usually medical or refugee oriented.

Private jets are shit for those applications too. A prop plane that can take off and land from short, unimproved runways would be much more conducive to humanitarian missions targeted at poorly served communities.

110
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:38:03pm

re: #108 William Lewis

My priest and I were laughing at the private jets the other day. I can think of several ministries where a jet might be useful or even needed. Usually medical or refugee oriented. But a pastor who wants to fly? Get in sardine class with the hoi polloi, rev.

When the megachurch I used to attend (yes, I went to one for a few months when I first moved to the wild north country) fell on some hard times and had to cut back, the pastor went in front of the congregation and told a long, deep sob story about how flying the church’s private jet was therapeutic for him and helped him be closer to God, but he was willing to sacrifice that for the sake of the ministry. I think that’s when I walked out and decided I wasn’t planning on coming back.

111
Citizen K  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:38:54pm

Shot:

Chaser:

112
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:39:38pm

re: #111 Citizen K

The fact that he hasn’t had a single day where more people have approved of him than disapproved is still comforting to me.

113
freetoken  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:39:38pm

I suspect the “founding fathers” would not have been that upset with the victims of the shootings even if they actually did “tear up” the Constitution.

114
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:39:49pm

Gun bans are a-ok with me. Hunters can rent their rifles from the government.

115
The Ghost of a Flea  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:40:53pm

re: #110 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Man, I’m in the middle of nowhere and the local Baptist pastor pulls 120K plus housing. Several of my associates just quit the church over it, but it’s representative of what can go down even in small congregations.

116
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:41:06pm

42% is way too fucking high. America is a shithole.

117
freetoken  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:42:20pm

re: #116 Amory Blaine

These surveys probably don’t mean what people want them to mean, if they mean anything at all.

118
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:43:29pm

re: #41 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

a quote for the now disgraced Kevin Spacey’s charager in House of Cards:

“everything is about sex. except sex. sex is about power”

and yes, consensual sex between adults in their spare time is their own concern. the only thing of interest with SD is if she was paid off using campaign funds or in some other illegal manner.

Cohen’s statement establishes beyond a reasonable doubt that he made an illegal $130k campaign contribution to the Trump Campaign.

119
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:43:32pm

re: #115 The Ghost of a Flea

Man, I’m in the middle of nowhere and the local Baptist pastor pulls 120K plus housing. Several of my associates just quit the church over it, but it’s representative of what can go down even in small congregations.

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

120
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:43:36pm

In answer to Mattand’s Dr. Matt’s question earlier, regarding the identity of the goon who threatened Stormy.

Edited because I got my Matts mixed up.

121
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:45:14pm

re: #47 Dr. Matt

It’s hard to believe that the goon that threatened Stormy hasn’t been identified. Trump’s inner thug circle isn’t that large.

Maybe he outsourced it to his Mob friends.

122
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:45:24pm

re: #109 goddamnedfrank

Private jets are shit for those applications too. A prop plane that can take off and land from short, unimproved runways would be much more conducive to humanitarian missions targeted at poorly served communities.

As I said might - the conflation in most peoples minds of reciprocating engine driven propellers and turbo-props and pure jets make it sometimes difficult to tell folks what is most appropriate to a given scenario. Certainly a Pilatus PC-6 is often more appropriate than, oh, a Lear 35 :) though both have turbine power driving them.

123
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:47:25pm

re: #67 makeitstop

‘Methvanka.’

[Embedded content]

Kellyanne Conway is Methvanka.

124
DodgerFan1988  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:48:06pm

Don’t forget Evangelicals more than any other group in America support racial segregation and apartheid.

125
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:48:11pm

re: #115 The Ghost of a Flea

Man, I’m in the middle of nowhere and the local Baptist pastor pulls 120K plus housing. Several of my associates just quit the church over it, but it’s representative of what can go down even in small congregations.

My priest is 2/3 time, get’s ~40k and a housing allowance. He has four kids at home and 2 in college. They farm a big chunk of their food and he has a second job running a summer camp.

126
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:48:49pm

I remember my Dad saying the principal of his pariochal school had a nice ride. I mean I’m not totally against these guys living the good life but the attempts to justify it biblically I found vomit inducing.

127
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:49:11pm

re: #106 William Lewis

This. But then, I think lots of the actual message of Jesus (especially when he’s channeling his rabbinical side) gets lost because people - believers and non-believers - want to think he’s only about the hyperbolic “hard sayings”.

I tell the people at church that the only way to evangelize is to be a Christian. When you do it right - when you live in love of god & neighbor, love mercy, do justly & walk humbly with god - only then people will say I want to live like that. This has nothing to do with abortion or LGBTQ or even belief vs non-belief. It is everything to do with this:

[Embedded content]

And that is where those who call themselves “evangelical” are failing.

How many cares disappear when one decides not to be something but to be someone - coco chanel

128
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:50:23pm

re: #124 DodgerFan1988

Don’t forget Evangelicals more than any other group in America support racial segregation and apartheid.

[Embedded content]

Absolutely.

129
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:50:35pm

re: #108 William Lewis

My priest and I were laughing at the private jets the other day. I can think of several ministries where a jet might be useful or even needed. Usually medical or refugee oriented. But a pastor who wants to fly? Get in sardine class with the hoi polloi, rev.

Get in sardine class and be an example, rev

130
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:51:18pm

None of the churches in our corner of suburbia have lines in front of them for feeding the poor. And for that matter, none let the poor sleep in their hallowed halls. Hypocritical head bobbers with no values.

131
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:51:35pm

re: #124 DodgerFan1988

Don’t forget Evangelicals more than any other group in America support racial segregation and apartheid.

[Embedded content]

Religion is why Sunday’s are the most segregated day in America. We (all those who call ourselves Christian) are complicit in that. The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion tries hard to change that but with little success.

132
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:51:35pm

Have your nice car and house but don’t tell me Jesus wanted that for you. St. Francis and many other men and women of God lived simple lives.

133
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:53:29pm

re: #130 Amory Blaine

None of the churches in our corner of suburbia have lines in front of them for feeding the poor. And for that matter, none let the poor sleep in their hallowed halls. Hypocritical head bobbers with no values.

Our churches actually do something about that. My church actually does have poor families that stay at the church and get assistance with housing and jobs. We also organize a community day every summer where the churches close their doors and do community service. It’s truly one of a kind - I’ve never been to a church that actually DOES so much stuff for other people.

134
Big Beautiful Door  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:53:34pm

re: #63 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Charles, per the headline of this article, I could’ve told you that subjectively. You know my story and my experiences with fishfolk and my family’s friends back home in fish country. I keep saying that evangelicals vote for Republicans because they view the GOP as the “Party of God”, and that’s not an exaggeration. Because of the Southern Strategy and how the Republicans were able to pivot and capture the attention of the evangelicals, they have now secured a fanatical power base that will vote for them literally no matter what they do. They can literally do no wrong, because at the end of the day, the Republicans are seen as “more Christian” (in the aggregate) than the Democrats, and thus they are the party to vote for in order to ensure their theocracy-on-earth comes to pass.

The worst part about all of that diatribe is, it’s literally the last thing Jesus would want.

Its a bastardized form of Christianity warped to support slavery and Jim Crow.

135
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:55:53pm

Said it when he passed away but I always thought Billy Graham got more credit than he deserved.

136
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:56:10pm

re: #101 HappyWarrior

Right it’s more than that. It’s standing up for Muslims and representing same sex clients pro Bono challenging Prop 8. He’s done a lot in his retirement from presidential administrations that he hasn’t had to and I like him for that. But you got that right.

From what I remember during my FedSoc years, Olson was always more of a libertarian than a conservative. Barbara, who died on 9/11, was more generally conservative and I think she tended to pull him that way. So it didn’t surprise me at all that he took some of the clients that he did.

137
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:57:23pm

re: #125 William Lewis

My priest is 2/3 time, get’s ~40k and a housing allowance. He has four kids at home and 2 in college. They farm a big chunk of their food and he has a second job running a summer camp.

the example of your own life should encourage others to explore the potential, to find a driving purpose and passion to excellence in themselves.

138
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:57:32pm

re: #135 HappyWarrior

Said it when he passed away but I always thought Billy Graham got more credit than he deserved.

Billy was a tremendous evangelist, but a saint he was not. Remember that the odious Franklin Graham is his offspring.

139
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 1:58:41pm

re: #136 KGxvi

From what I remember during my FedSoc years, Olson was always more of a libertarian than a conservative. Barbara, who died on 9/11, was more generally conservative and I think she tended to pull him that way. So it didn’t surprise me at all that he took some of the clients that he did.

You’d know more than me. He has my kudos.

140
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:00:07pm

re: #138 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Billy was a tremendous evangelist, but a saint he was not. Remember that the odious Franklin Graham is his offspring.

Franklin is a big part of his legacy. And Franklin is a terrible person. I don’t doubt BG’s talents as an evangelicalist but as someone who tried to make the world a more inclusionary place, he failed.

141
Hecuba's daughter  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:00:34pm

re: #86 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Somewhere along the line, churches became less about “giving to those who have need” and more about “fuck those guys, they’re the government’s problem”. I used to say that in my ideal world, the churches would provide the social safety net out of Christian generosity; I’ve been disabused of that notion by several arguments, but I still believe they should be donating the excess of their wealth and not spending it all on upgrades and bling. You can’t convince me that Jesus wants your pastoral leadership to fly in a private jet. There’s arguments to be made for technology upgrades to churches to keep up with the cyber world, but anything beyond that is frivolous.

Actually, in the modern world, it is significantly more efficient and effective to help the poor through well-run government agencies. The government can target all poor nationwide — if you rely on churches, they are often limited to helping those in their immediate community.

Unfortunately, the government model falls apart when the GOP is in charge since their goal is to enrich the rich.

142
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:02:25pm

re: #130 Amory Blaine

None of the churches in our corner of suburbia have lines in front of them for feeding the poor. And for that matter, none let the poor sleep in their hallowed halls. Hypocritical head bobbers with no values.

When I fell in love with the Episcopal church, I was living in Madison WI. Grace Church is right there on the square, next door to the capital building. You can see it from the Governor’s office.

Every night there is a line there for the Men’s shelter in the basement. We made a hot breakfast for them every morning - pancakes and sausage was common. Then during the day we had a place where homeless or unemployed people could come in and get help with job searches - resumes, applications, and the like.

Lastly was the food pantry that was open 3 days a week and anyone could come to it once a month - no referral, no “proving” you needed it, just show up and show us how many lived in your home.

It can be done and that’s in the same place with the Tiffany stained glass window of the Resurrection and the newer one with the 8th Air Force insignia at the top with a dedication to a pilot who never came home.

Perhaps that’s why I demand so many good works from those who claim to have faith.

143
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:02:52pm

Is it time for nonprofits to pay property taxes?

Wisconsin state statute (Section 70.11) lists about 40 categories of specific exemptions. They include not only churches and schools but also benevolent institutions, memorials, fire companies and cemeteries, to name a few.

Exempting many of these nonprofit institutions from income taxes makes some sense. But the same rationale does not apply to property taxes that pay for schools, local public safety and infrastructure costs for the benefit of all property owners, including nonprofits.

Tax-exempt institutions pay utility fees for their use of electricity and water. Shouldn’t a tax for their ownership of property be viewed in the same light?

To aggravate the situation, the trend in urban areas across the country is toward an increase in tax-exempt properties, commensurately shrinking the tax base. As of 2005, about one-third of the property in the city of Milwaukee was deemed to be tax-exempt.

144
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:03:23pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

You’d know more than me. He has my kudos.

From wikipedia, some of the cases he argued before becoming Solicitor General:

A high-profile client in the 1980s was Jonathan Pollard, who had been convicted of selling government secrets to Israel. Olson handled the appeal to United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. Olson argued the life sentence Pollard received was in violation of the plea bargain agreement, which had specifically excluded a life sentence. Olson also argued that the violation of the plea bargain was grounds for a mistrial. The Court of Appeals ruled (2‑1) that no grounds for mistrial existed.

Olson argued a dozen cases before the Supreme Court prior to becoming Solicitor General;[4] In one case, he argued against federal sentencing guidelines; and, in a case in New York state, he defended a member of the press who had first leaked the Anita Hill story.[3] Olson successfully represented presidential candidate George W. Bush in the Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore, which effectively ended the recount of the contested 2000 Presidential election.

And a few after:

In 2006, Olson represented a defendant journalist in the civil case filed by Wen Ho Lee and pursued the appeal to the Supreme Court.[5] Lee sued the federal government to discover which public officials had named him as a suspect to journalists before he had been charged.[5] Olson wrote a brief on behalf of one of the journalists involved in the case, saying that journalists should not have to identify confidential sources, even if subpoenaed by a court.[5] In 2011, Olson represented the National Football League Players Association in the 2011 NFL lockout.[6][7]

Those aren’t necessarily the types of cases you’d expect a conservative to take, I think. Especially at the appellate level where a decision can have long ranging effects.

145
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:05:36pm

documentcloud.org

146
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:06:05pm

re: #144 KGxvi

From wikipedia, some of the cases he argued before becoming Solicitor General:

And a few after:

Those aren’t necessarily the types of cases you’d expect a conservative to take, I think. Especially at the appellate level where a decision can have long ranging effects.

Yeah I think I wrongly saw in my youth his status as a Bush v Gore lawyer and ignored that he was representing a client rather than his actual views and his wife was a bit nutty I recall.

147
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:06:41pm

re: #142 William Lewis

Yes, ok some by which I mean very few churches walk the walk. Most churches are filled with soccer moms and dads looking for their own gated communities to keep the n*****s or the gays or this group or that group, out. Not helping anyone but themselves. A church is nothing more than a private club.

148
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:06:47pm

Stormy’s lawyer is the pit bull that Says Who Cohen imagines himself to be.

149
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:07:26pm

Canada Is All Set To Legalize Marijuana By The End of The Summer (High Times)

As we reported last month, there has been some question as to when Canada will finally legalize weed. Initially, Justin Trudeau predicted that weed would be available by the start of summer of 2018. However, as of yesterday, Canada is all set to legalize marijuana by the end of the summer.

An Updated Timeline For Legalization
In an interview with Canadian news program The West Block, parliamentary secretary for the minister of public safety Mark Holland reported that Canadians will be able to buy weed by the end of September.

The liberal party currently controls the executive branch of the Canadian government, led by Justin Trudeau. Opposition to cannabis legalization largely comes from the more conservative Senate.

150
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:07:43pm

re: #143 Amory Blaine

Is it time for nonprofits to pay property taxes?

Taxing memorials and cemeteries would probably not be the best of ideas. Most are generally open to the public and serve a fairly important role in society. Do you want your great-grandmother getting evicted from her grave because someone couldn’t afford the property tax?

I don’t necessarily have a problem with churches and private schools paying property taxes, but it is definitely something I’d want to see a proposal for before signing on.

151
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:07:54pm

re: #147 Amory Blaine

Yes, ok some by which I mean very few churches walk the walk. Most churches are filled with soccer moms and dads looking for their own gated communities to keep the n*****s or the gays or this group or that group, out. Not helping anyone but themselves. A church is nothing more than a private club.

I know.

But that’s why I wrote the last line of that post.

152
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:09:21pm

re: #150 KGxvi

Heh, yeah I’ll allow an exception for the dead. Everyone else, pay up deadbeat.

153
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:11:47pm
154
Cheechako  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:12:59pm

In keeping with the current theme, IIRC, in the past few days I saw a newspaper article detailing that one of the mega pastors had a net worth of $750 million. I’ve done several internet searches but am unable to find the story. Can anyone else help?

155
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:13:56pm

re: #13 dangerman

How do you defund a man’s money?

See Hitler, Adolph.

156
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:15:37pm

re: #152 Amory Blaine

Heh, yeah I’ll allow an exception for the dead. Everyone else, pay up deadbeat.

Dead people farms don’t make a whole lot of money ;) It’s a tough row to hoe…

157
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:15:38pm

re: #153 gocart mozart

Whaaaaaaaaat?

158
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:16:04pm

re: #153 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

So we might get a Speaker who once promised to be Duke without the baggage. Well look at this way Boehner, between Newt the sick wife cheater, Coach Pedo, Ayn Ryan, and now potentially Scalise, you’re the least detestable.

159
goddamnedfrank  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:20:34pm

re: #148 makeitstop

Stormy’s lawyer is the pit bull that Says Who Cohen imagines himself to be.

[Embedded content]

Since they’re already suing Cohen they should subpoena his tax records to see if he filed an IRS form 709 for tax year 2016 to see if he reported the gift he says he made to Trump, and if not add tax fraud to the list of factual allegations undermining the agreement.

More importantly, Cohen is going to need to show that he in fact did this deal with Trump’s knowledge and approval, or Trump’s claim’s against Daniels/Clifford will be immediately voided and Cohen will face disbarment and possible criminal indictment for perjury. He represented to the Court that he was representing Trump in this matter, and if he entangled his client in a deal without his client’s informed consent that means he defrauded both his client and the Court.

160
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:20:39pm

re: #153 gocart mozart

Steve Scalise, on the issues, some highlights:

Voted YES on prioritizing spending in case debt limit is reached. (May 2013)
Voted YES on terminating the Home Affordable mortgage Program. (Mar 2011)
Voted NO on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (Mar 2009)
Voted NO on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Jan 2009)
Voted NO on monitoring TARP funds to ensure more mortgage relief. (Jan 2009)
Balanced Budget Amendment with 3/5 vote to override. (Jan 2009)
Proposing a balanced budget amendment to the US Constitution. (Jan 2011)
Ban roadway signs indicating Recovery Act funding. (May 2011)
Audit the Federal Reserve & its actions on mortgage loans. (Jan 2013)
Authored constitutional amendment to protect marriage. (May 2008)
Voted NO on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Amend Constitution to define traditional marriage. (Jun 2008)
Protect anti-same-sex marriage opinions as free speech. (Sep 2013)
State definition of marriage supersedes federal gay marriage. (Feb 2014)
Voted NO on enforcing against anti-gay hate crimes. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the DC opportunity scholarship program. (Mar 2011)
Voted NO on $40B for green public schools. (May 2009)
$110M per year to teach abstinence in public schools. (Feb 2013)
Voted YES on opening Outer Continental Shelf to oil drilling. (May 2011)
Voted YES on barring EPA from regulating greenhouse gases. (Apr 2011)
Voted NO on enforcing limits on CO2 global warming pollution. (Jun 2009)
Voted NO on tax credits for renewable electricity, with PAYGO offsets. (Sep 2008)
Full funding of 100-year flood protection. (May 2008) [editor’s note: he is from Louisiana after all)
Voted NO on $2 billion more for Cash for Clunkers program. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on supporting democratic institutions in Pakistan. (Jun 2009)
Voted YES on cooperating with India as a nuclear power. (Sep 2008)
Ban stock trading based on Congressional insider knowledge. (Nov 2011) [editor’s note: hey! a good one]
No recess appointments without Congressional approval. (Jan 2012) [editor’s note: not sure he understands what recess appointments are, which calls into question his understanding of the constitution]
National cross-state standard for concealed carry. (Jan 2009)
Teach kids Eddie Eagle GunSafe’s lifesaving message. (May 2010)
Sponsored loosening restrictions on interstate gun purchases. (Oct 2011)
Military protects homeland from radical Islamic terrorism. (May 2008)
Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act’s roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011)
Sponsored opposing the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty. (Mar 2013)
Seal our borders; it’s a matter of national security. (May 2008)
Amnesty is not an option. (May 2008)
End Birthright Citizenship; no more anchor babies. (Apr 2009) [editor’s note: yep, definitely doesn’t understand how the constitution works]

So, yeah, he’d be fun as Speaker.

161
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:21:47pm

re: #153 gocart mozart

162
The Ghost of a Flea  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:24:18pm

The idea that I’m supposed to defer to someone because they hypothetically are going to protect me against an attacker strikes me as, at minimum, the absolute fucking height of “where is my participation trophy?” self-absorption.

But that’s the mild read. The tougher interpretation is that these are people who have a power fantasy—shut up because I protect you—that has sweet fuck all to do with actually caring about people as concrete beings…hence why they’re constantly preparing for crimes that happen like they do in films (done by strangers in dramatic fashion, with the bystanders obvious and not caught up in the mess). It also explains why they relate to guns as symbolic power items, but routinely fuck up Eddie-the-Eagle-level gun safety. All that range time doesn’t change how they fundamentally prefer the abstract meaning of the firearm to its practical application. Having a weapon around feels good, so you stop thinking in terms of it as a tool that does one thing. And because it signifies freedom, self-defense, et cetera, at some point practical application goes out the window in favor of consumption guided by Bourdieu’s distinction. And that’s how fuck-ups—negligent discharges, lost weapons, giving kids a gun they can’t control—happen.

But the last part is the ugliest. Gun culture in the US hypes threat, because that feeling of being brave and strong (and better than the unarmed) is accentuated by a sense of salient danger. This is the currency of the warrior cop and the NRA: there’s always a threat, and lethal force should always be on the table. So you have more efficient tools for killing combined with a broadened parameter of “this requires shooting to fix,” and a community of consumers who’ve embraced the fantasy of a “heroism” that exists without case-specific moral choices. Which is why shooting victims are so often made to retroactively deserve it, and fuck-up shooters are suddenly Not Of The Body: they disrupt the enjoyable story in which owning the tool and operating the tool is conflated with the situational awareness plus moral clarity to use lethal force.

163
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:29:16pm

This Catholic fuck has no problem getting political for his right wing cronies.

Catholic bishops ask Tammy Baldwin not to block judicial nomination of Gordon Giampietro

He has nothing to say about gun control to keep childrens bodies from piling up. He is a true piece of human garbage.

164
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:29:28pm
165
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:30:31pm

re: #164 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

RIP Linda.

166
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:31:00pm

re: #163 Amory Blaine

This Catholic fuck has no problem getting political for his right wing cronies.

Catholic bishops ask Tammy Baldwin not to block judicial nomination of Gordon Giampietro

He has nothing to say about gun control to keep childrens bodies from piling up. He is a true piece of human garbage.

Yeah I read about this guy. He’s awful.

167
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:31:52pm

re: #163 Amory Blaine

I’m specifically calling out “archbishop” Listecki.

168
goddamnedfrank  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:33:40pm
169
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:34:54pm

re: #168 goddamnedfrank

Trump’s new legal argument: I am the state.

170
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 2:38:28pm

re: #169 KGxvi

Trump’s new legal argument: I am the state.

No, sir, you are the HEAD of state. The fact that you don’t have one (a head) notwithstanding.

171
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:02:24pm

re: #159 goddamnedfrank

Since they’re already suing Cohen they should subpoena his tax records to see if he filed an IRS form 709 for tax year 2016 to see if he reported the gift he says he made to Trump, and if not add tax fraud to the list of factual allegations undermining the agreement.

More importantly, Cohen is going to need to show that he in fact did this deal with Trump’s knowledge and approval, or Trump’s claim’s against Daniels/Clifford will be immediately voided and Cohen will face disbarment and possible criminal indictment for perjury. He represented to the Court that he was representing Trump in this matter, and if he entangled his client in a deal without his client’s informed consent that means he defrauded both his client and the Court.

that may happen

remember though that cohen put the 130k into the delaware LLC.
that changes the problem a bit

how did the llc record the receipt? (income, loan, something else)
how did the llc record the payment to daniels? (a deductible expense or something else?)
did the llc issue a 1099 to daniels?(daily penalties for not issuing the form)
did the llc file its own tax return - note it could have maybe been treated as a single member llc and disregarded entity - (that gets you to cohen’s 1040 through the side door)

172
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:06:41pm

re: #169 KGxvi

Trump’s new legal argument: I am the state.

even if you were now, which you arent
you werent then

173
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:12:37pm

The problem here is not the investigation, but the investigators.

C’mon. We know Jared should be in prison. We fucking know this.

174
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:18:41pm

re: #172 dangerman

even if you were now, which you arent
you werent then

NOTHING HAPPENED BEFORE I BECAME PRESIDENT!!1! THAT’S WHY I HAD THE BIGGEST INAUGURATION EVER, MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY’VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT, BELIEVE ME. AND THERE’S GOOD REASON - BECAUSE, BECAUSE, BELIEVE ME, NOTHING HAPPENED BEFORE I BECAME PRESIDENT. WITCH HUNT!!

175
darthstar  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:20:58pm
176
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:21:18pm

re: #104 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Marxism? These people need some education on what the term really means. RELEASE THE BOLSHEVIKS.

177
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:21:36pm

re: #174 KGxvi

NOTHING HAPPENED BEFORE I BECAME PRESIDENT!!1! THAT’S WHY I HAD THE BIGGEST INAUGURATION EVER, MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY’VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT, BELIEVE ME. AND THERE’S GOOD REASON - BECAUSE, BECAUSE, BELIEVE ME, NOTHING HAPPENED BEFORE I BECAME PRESIDENT. WITCH HUNT!!

to steal and paraphrase from a poster at another site:

The problem in America today is not you mr prez. Not really. The problem is the two-out-of-five of my fellow citizens who believe you belong in the White House, and are willing to persist in that belief no matter what you say or do.

danger’s law: way more than half the country is of below average intelligence

178
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:23:13pm

re: #175 darthstar

He got what he came for: a giant tax cut for himself and his corporate patrons.

He’ll go down as the cowardly Speaker who kissed Tump’s ring, put his country last and presided over two straight cycles of Republican losses.

he got only half of what he came for

he didnt get his hands on social security / medicare

tax cuts will expire if they arent outright reversed

sad failure

179
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:26:17pm

you can keep your damn florida man stories

Female high school quarterback throws TD on 1st pass in varsity game

Hollywood Hills High School
South Florida

180
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:28:16pm

I find this discovery to be hopeful:

Findings from a Middle Stone Age site named Star Carr in North Yorkshire, England, show that our ancestors resiliently survived the century-long drop in temperature, according to a new study in the journal Nature Ecology & Evolution on Monday.

{snip}

For example, one well-studied event 8,200 years ago was a sudden cold shift that lasted over a century, recorded in Greenland ice cores and within the fossil record across Europe, the researchers said. It occurred when the North American ice sheet decayed after the last ice age and released meltwater into the North Atlantic Ocean, disrupting the currents that brought heat to Western Europe. This triggered large-scale population crashes in northern Britain and large cultural changes in southern Europe, they said.

As a species we found a way to survive climate change in the past, even without the vast knowledge we have now. Obviously, the human population is a lot bigger now, and our use of resources much more dramatic than it was in 10000 BC. But it still gives me reason to be cautiously optimistic about our future.

181
KGxvi  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:29:07pm

re: #179 dangerman

you can keep your damn florida man stories

Female high school quarterback throws TD on 1st pass in varsity game

Hollywood Hills High School
South Florida

As a Cuban American, I’d just like to point out that South Florida tends to be very different from the rest of the state.

182
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:36:22pm

re: #181 KGxvi

As a Cuban American, I’d just like to point out that South Florida tends to be very different from the rest of the state.

which i remind everyone whenever there’s a north “florida man” story

i sway the odds by staying silent on the south florida man stories

183
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:49:16pm

The Blair Witch Mountain Project (YouTube)

Blair Witch Parody with a woman looking for Tony and Tia.

184
darthstar  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:54:27pm

THIS GIRL ROCKS

185
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 3:59:09pm

re: #184 darthstar

THIS GIRL ROCKS

[Embedded content]

and then she said it right there at the end:
“we’re not asking for a ban. we’re asking for compromise”

186
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:05:42pm
187
Patricia Kayden  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:13:09pm
188
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:18:19pm

re: #187 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

So what all is in those?

189
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:20:32pm

re: #188 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

So what all is in those?

The proposals include reducing the number of bullets allowed in a magazine from 15 to 10, banning armor-piercing bullets, strictly defining that residents must show a “justifiable need” to obtain a permit to carry a handgun, expanding background checks, and seizing weapons from people deemed to pose a threat to themselves or others.

nj.com

Way to be, Jersey!

190
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:21:32pm

re: #189 makeitstop

nj.com

Way to be, Jersey!

Dude. That’s some serious business.

191
Patricia Kayden  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:22:42pm

re: #188 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

pix11.com

“The New Jersey Assembly voted to approve six gun bills this afternoon that would make it tougher to get a concealed carry permit; limit ammunition rounds; and allow a family member to file a report for one’s gun rights to be stripped, among other measures.”

192
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:25:02pm

re: #191 Patricia Kayden

pix11.com

“The New Jersey Assembly voted to approve six gun bills this afternoon that would make it tougher to get a concealed carry permit; limit ammunition rounds; and allow a family member to file a report for one’s gun rights to be stripped, among other measures.”

That last one I think is the most amazing, and also was most curious about. Right-wingers are gonna be PISSED about that, but if the mechanism for getting one’s guns taken away is sound and reasonable, it makes it harder to argue against.

193
mmmirele  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:25:12pm

re: #115 The Ghost of a Flea

Man, I’m in the middle of nowhere and the local Baptist pastor pulls 120K plus housing. Several of my associates just quit the church over it, but it’s representative of what can go down even in small congregations.

I remember sitting in on a conversation where some local ladies in Tomball, Texas, were talking about how the pastor of First Baptist Church, biggest church in town, was getting $25,000 plus a housing allowance. They were appalled. This was in 1977. Remember, that housing allowance has been tax-free income for preachers since 1954.

194
Patricia Kayden  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:27:26pm
195
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:29:19pm

re: #194 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

It’s not a God given right you dumbshit. Pay back your child support rather than hoarding.

196
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:29:45pm
197
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:31:18pm

What was that about ‘fame and fortune’ again, Spanky?

198
Jay C  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:32:03pm

re: #192 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

That last one I think is the most amazing, and also was most curious about. Right-wingers are gonna be PISSED about that, but if the mechanism for getting one’s guns taken away is sound and reasonable, it makes it harder to argue against.

I think for most gunhumpers, “PISSED” is going to be a mild version of their feelings. Aside from the fact that virtually ANY “mechanism for getting one’s guns taken away” is likely to be fought with rabid intensity as the Hugest Unconstitutional Abusive Abuse EVAH!!!!

Especially if there is any “domestic” component to it (frequency of “domestic” shootings most assuredly notwithstanding).

199
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:34:54pm

re: #198 Jay C

I think for most gunhumpers, “PISSED” is going to be a mild version of their feelings. Aside from the fact that virtually ANY “mechanism for getting one’s guns taken away” is likely to be fought with rabid intensity as the Hugest Unconstitutional Abusive Abuse EVAH!!!!

Especially if there is any “domestic” component to it (frequency of “domestic” shootings most assuredly notwithstanding).

Oh, I have no doubt of that. We’re bordering on violent riots territory here. These are, after all, the folks who respond to gun-control advocates with “come and take them”.

200
Patricia Kayden  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:49:42pm
201
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:52:47pm

re: #200 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

So, the thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun.

202
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:54:51pm

GOP bill would supersede judge’s order that Gov. Scott Walker schedule special elections

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker might be able to ignore a judge’s order and stall special elections for the Legislature, under a bill GOP leaders hope to rush through the statehouse.

But the bill’s passage isn’t secure in the state Senate, where at least two GOP senators are voicing concerns publicly and at least one more has shared them privately with fellow Republicans.

Sen. Luther Olsen (R-Ripon) said his constituents think special elections should be held for two legislative seats that have sat open since December. One of the two vacant seats is an Assembly district that lies within Olsen’s Senate seat.

“Let’s just say I’ve been getting a lot of calls and emails from my constituents,” Olsen said.

GOP leaders are racing to hold a hearing Wednesday on the bill and a Senate floor vote on April 4 after a Dane County judge found Walker must call the elections by this Thursday. The legislation says it would overrule any election order from either Walker or a court.

So are these the reasonable, not radical conservatives I keep getting told about?

203
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:56:46pm

re: #200 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

NRA does nothing but lie.

204
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:57:52pm

re: #200 Patricia Kayden

[Embedded content]

That makes it easier on the officer’s conscience, at least. Sounds like he did a damn fine job of trying to find a non-fatal way to end the confrontation.

205
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:58:01pm

re: #201 Blind Frog Belly White

So, the thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun.

The presence of the “good guy with a gun” seems to have triggered the suicide at that moment, but the GGWAG did not stop the shooting. The murder went as planned with no intervention. If wingnuts had good arguments, they wouldn’t have to use these weak ones.

206
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:58:14pm

When I die, I’m donating all viable organs and then cremation. But if for some reason my loved ones want to bury me (hey, I won’t have a say after death), I want this to be my grave.

207
The Ghost of a Flea  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:58:50pm

re: #201 Blind Frog Belly White

So, the thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun.

It was intimate partner violence—killing an ex, followed by suicide. Disgustingly, one of the most common murders.

Presenting it as a mass shooting that was stopped short was marketing combined with the heroic fantasy that any public murder is the start of some epic spree.

208
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 4:59:11pm

re: #206 teleskiguy

My mother and sister found one in a graveyard somewhere and the words engraved on it were, “YOU WILL MISS ME.” Mom always joked that that’s what she would put on her own.

209
wheat-dogg  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:01:41pm

re: #208 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

My mother and sister found one in a graveyard somewhere and the words engraved on it were, “YOU WILL MISS ME.” Mom always joked that that’s what she would put on her own.

Somewhere there must be a mom gravestone that says, ” Would it hurt you to visit your mother once in a while?”

210
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:03:08pm

re: #206 teleskiguy

When I die, I’m donating all viable organs and then cremation. But if for some reason my loved ones want to bury me (hey, I won’t have a say after death), I want this to be my grave.

[Embedded content]

I’m cremating then donating, but your way seems better.

I’m sticking with “I told you I was sick” on my tombstone.
I’d prefer to live forever, but it doesn’t seem to be an option.

211
goddamnedfrank  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:03:14pm
212
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:03:41pm
213
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:04:18pm
214
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:04:32pm
215
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:04:56pm
216
wheat-dogg  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:05:23pm

Time to teach young minds about English and stuff. Probably not about Kim being in Beijing, though.

217
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:07:42pm

re: #197 makeitstop

What was that about ‘fame and fortune’ again, Spanky?

[Embedded content]

Trump makes his attorneys look like fools, plus he doesn’t pay them. I think the very stable genius with the really good brain should just defend himself. With all the tv he watches he must have earned a JD by now.

218
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:07:54pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

He’s disappointed me with his views on Trump.

219
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:08:04pm

Before they put a permanent roof over the stage.

220
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:09:30pm

re: #202 Amory Blaine

GOP bill would supersede judge’s order that Gov. Scott Walker schedule special elections

So are these the reasonable, not radical conservatives I keep getting told about?

Wait to see how they vote.

221
lawhawk  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:10:52pm

re: #213 gocart mozart

Carter is not infalliable and his failings are well chronicled.

He may think that avoiding impeachment of Trump may prevent further damage to the Republic and give the Russians a further advantage in manipulating outcome of elections and foreign policy.

However, impeachment would be disinfectant that is needed to expose the GOP to its ugly base and rhetoric. They got here because they bought the lies they’ve pushed for decades and Trump took it to a whole different level. Trump thought that winning was paramount and didn’t care about the rule of law and he couldn’t lose to Clinton because he was that insecure.

Trump would do anything to win. He also would do anything to solve his highly leveraged real estate conundrum. Russia was the easy way out on both counts.

222
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:11:46pm

Trolling the ammosexual

223
A Cranky One  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:13:18pm

re: #77 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Evangelicals are all about that in-your-face, turn-or-burn message that always rubbed me the wrong way. It’s like they think you can’t be converted unless they’re holding a (metaphorical or literal) gun to your head. I’m not sure whatever happened to the concept of, “Let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in Heaven.”

I’ve known amazing, selfless people from many religions who had a common trait: their witness was how they lived their life. And the most effective witnesses were those who lived the type of life you’d like to emulate- those who made a positive difference and impact on the world.

Those are the folks who’s words are worth listening to. All others, well, why should we waste time listening to assholes?

224
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:14:51pm

Didn’t Reagan and his conservatives interfere with Iran hostage release? Yes. Yes they did.

225
GlutenFreeJesus  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:15:06pm

It figures in the age of Trump that some racist piece of shit asshole like King who thinks immigrants should learn English or get out, is going after a girl with immigrant roots for speaking English.

226
Ace Rothstein  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:16:48pm

re: #224 Amory Blaine

Didn’t Nixon interfere with the Vietnam War and then was caught on tape lying to President Johnson about it? Yes. Yes he did.

227
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:17:26pm
228
Patricia Kayden  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:20:12pm

re: #227 JordanRules

The news coming out of Facebook has been horrible lately. That isn’t going to help its public image.

229
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:20:20pm

Also, didn’t Carter nominate Paul Volker who then broke stagflation with higher interest rates that was then continued under Reagan? Then Reagan got all the credit for a “booming” economy?

230
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:21:07pm
231
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:21:22pm

re: #229 Amory Blaine

Also, didn’t Carter nominate Paul Volker who then broke stagflation with higher interest rates that was then continued under Reagan? Then Reagan got all the credit for a “booming” economy?

Yes Volker was a Carter pick.

232
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:22:21pm

re: #230 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

If they think that’s what liberals are, they’re in for a nasty surprise.

233
Ace Rothstein  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:23:28pm

Didn’t Obama inherit 12% unemployment, 750,000 jobs lost a month, and a market that lost nearly half its value, then left office with 4.8% unemployment, 250,000 jobs gained a month, and a market that increased by 250%, and now Trump gets all the credit for a booming economy?

234
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:23:44pm
235
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:25:00pm

sign at the Boston rally on Saturday:

236
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:25:25pm

re: #233 Ace Rothstein

But the media is all liberals!!

237
The Major  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:25:53pm
238
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:26:20pm

re: #234 JordanRules

So I forget. What happens when a passenger threatens to blow up an airplane? Do the cops say the threat wasn’t credible and let him go?

239
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:27:49pm

re: #238 Skip Intro

So I forget. What happens when a passenger threatens to blow up an airplane? Do the cops say the threat wasn’t credible and let him go?

He was white.

240
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:28:50pm

re: #237 The Major

[Embedded content]

Actually he did support the Brady Bill.

241
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:29:11pm

re: #239 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

That’s odd, because a white guy with a gun threatening to shoot up a school is as real as it gets.

242
The Major  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:29:56pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Actually he did support the Brady Bill.

Irma has lost a sense of history….

243
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:30:17pm

re: #241 Skip Intro

That’s odd, because a white guy with a gun threatening to shoot up a school is as real as it gets.

See, you know that and I know that, but the dumb shits in charge of the police department are willfully ignoring it.

244
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:30:25pm

re: #242 The Major

Irma has lost a sense of history….

You’re assuming she had one to begin with.

245
Ace Rothstein  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:30:32pm

re: #241 Skip Intro

Troubled upbringing.
/

246
The Major  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:31:00pm

re: #244 HappyWarrior

Irma has lost a sense of history….

You’re assuming she had one to begin with.

Good point….

247
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:33:43pm

Earlier I teased a response to recent events. Just Paged. In the spirit of my coverage of Occupy back when. Please take the couple minutes and let me know what ya think.

248
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:34:09pm
249
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:34:57pm

re: #246 The Major

Good point….

They’d never call Reagan a gun grabber because he made them feel better about being jerks.

250
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:35:15pm

re: #248 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Tucker’s a coward.

251
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:36:30pm

re: #248 JordanRules

252
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:36:56pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

His perpetual *who farted* face kills me.

253
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:37:40pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

Tucker’s a coward.

He has a propaganda-show. He’s not there to speak to serious people or learn anything. It’s all for the moron audience that needs to be mislead.

254
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:38:23pm

re: #252 teleskiguy

His perpetual *who farted* face kills me.

I like how the heir of Swanson dinners talks about elites as if he’s not one.

255
Ace Rothstein  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:38:45pm

re: #251 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

He always has that constipated look. Just like Trump.

256
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:38:49pm

re: #252 teleskiguy

His perpetual *who farted* face kills me.

He always looks to me like he’s just been hit upside the head.

257
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:38:57pm

re: #248 JordanRules

Yeah, that how it works on hate radio too.

258
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:39:15pm
259
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:41:44pm

re: #258 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The NRA are such a scummy organization.

260
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:41:58pm
261
Skip Intro  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:42:47pm

re: #259 HappyWarrior

The NRA are such a scummy organization.

Murder, Inc had higher standards.

262
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:43:42pm
263
HappyWarrior  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:44:16pm

re: #261 Skip Intro

Murder, Inc had higher standards.

Yep they didn’t target civilians.

264
JordanRules  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:44:51pm

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Emmanuel Macron has set his sights on artificial intelligence as the next technological frontier France cannot afford to miss, and will launch a major “offensive” this week, officials said on Monday.

Macron, the 40-year-old who swept to power last May promising to transform France into a “start-up nation”, wants to avoid seeing France and Europe fall behind Chinese and U.S. giants such as Alphabet’s Google, Microsoft and Alibaba in this area.

“France missed the boat of all the latest technological revolutions: robotics, the internet. We have no giants in these fields,” a presidential adviser said.

“We will do what it takes to move to pole position.”

The officials, who were speaking on condition of anonymity, declined to give more details on the announcements expected on Thursday, when Macron will speak at the elite College de France research center.

wncy.com

265
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:45:50pm
266
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:46:23pm
267
gocart mozart  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:46:53pm

re: #222 gocart mozart

Thinking of a comeback

268
Stanley Sea  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:47:10pm

re: #247 Unshaken Defiance

rZNuAyU4Nf1kNEWBllRC4FO2nl8jiBXXOBRzkqAX88uWdmzaKLrIgBxNSekssq6r

269
teleskiguy  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:47:34pm

He got some stock market bullet points on Fox News.

270
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:48:59pm
271
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:49:03pm

re: #269 teleskiguy

He got some stock market bullet points on Fox News.

[Embedded content]

272
Weaselone  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:49:12pm

re: #267 gocart mozart

It takes 4 minutes to find a Wikipedia page?

273
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:51:21pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

oNkKI8IKrcFMZ3l7M4nyJA==

Yikes I messed that up but all good now.

274
William Lewis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:51:30pm

re: #237 The Major

[Embedded content]

“So IOW, the Brady Bill did not take away any rights. Thank you for agreeing with me.”

275
goddamnedfrank  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:51:50pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Actually he did support the Brady Bill.

He also signed FOPA including the Hughes amendment into law which banned civilian ownership of machine guns that weren’t already lawfully registered before May19th 1986. That law is the reason that there is an extremely limited supply of lawfully transferable machine guns and why the few that do become available for sale cost an absolute fortune.

276
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:52:18pm
277
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:54:45pm

re: #276 Backwoods_Sleuth

Between the ketchup pizza earlier today and that, I’m going to lose a little weight today.

278
Joe Bacon 🌹  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:56:02pm

Ann Telnaes scores another grand slam!

279
makeitstop  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:57:03pm

re: #265 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

He has a top shelf trolling game, too. Impressive.

280
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:58:25pm

re: #279 makeitstop

He has a top shelf trolling game, too. Impressive.

Befitting his client, who is a serious pain in Trump’s ass in the Twitter space.

281
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 26, 2018 • 5:59:38pm
282
Amory Blaine  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:00:47pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

I like how the heir of Swanson dinners talks about elites as if he’s not one.

He pulled himself up by his bootstraps!

283
lawhawk  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:03:07pm

re: #269 teleskiguy

284
dangerman  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:03:18pm

re: #255 Ace Rothstein

He always has that constipated look. Just like Trump.

Nixon had it too

285
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:03:33pm
286
Mike Lamb  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:06:12pm

Because voting and gun ownership are totes the same.

287
gwangung  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:08:23pm

re: #258 Backwoods_Sleuth

I don’t think it takes any special insight to realize that; just an IQ above room temperature.

288
Anymouse 🌹  Mar 26, 2018 • 6:48:01pm

Out in town this evening doing water tests. Every home I went into (and the gun shop) was playing FOX News. (Real awkward being in the gun shop right when they were railing on FOX about “gun grabbers” and such. We’ll just say the owner of the shop is not my biggest fan for me being on the village board.)

289
TedStriker  Mar 26, 2018 • 7:26:19pm

Oh, look:

Ars Technica: Uber told to stop testing driverless tech in Arizona

When you’ve lost Doug Ducey, one of the biggest GOP wingnuts in public office who’s not in DC and who giddily welcomed Uber’s testing with open arms saying, more or less, that CA’s regs (the ones that mandated extensive performance and safety documentation to the state DMV and others that Uber tried to sidestep, getting them shut down there) are too onerous:

Granted, this is only after a Uber AV hit and killed a pedestrian, but even he couldn’t ignore that.


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