The Bob Cesca Show: Be Best

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Today’s program from our podcasting affiliate, The Bob Cesca Show:

Be Best — NSFW; Buzz Burbank from Buzz Burbank News and Comment is here; Trump pulls out of the Iran Deal; Iran threatens more nukes than ever; Trump slurring his words again; Eric Schneiderman accused of sexual assault; Bob versus the NRA; Primary day in West Virginia; Melania Trump announces ‘Be Best’ campaign; Melania’s booklet stolen from Obama team; Trump’s mock Mueller interview was a disaster; Dems to release 3,000 Russian Facebook ads; The linkage between Russia and the inauguration; and much more.

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170 comments

1
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 2:50:10pm
2
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 2:51:43pm
3
Eclectic Cyborg  May 8, 2018 • 2:53:57pm

re: #1 jaunte

Nothing is a bridge too far for todays GOP.

With these spineless assholes, Trump is bulletproof.

4
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 2:55:53pm
5
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 2:57:11pm

re: #2 jaunte

There is another HUGE allegation in this document.

Drug company Novartis wired almost $400,000 to the same account controlled by Michael Cohen that made the Stormy Daniels payment.

Trump took a dinner meeting at Davos with, you guessed it, the incoming Novartis CEO.

Holy shit.

5:51 PM - May 8, 2018

i said “holy shit” at xx:47 ;-)
littlegreenfootballs.com

novartis AND!!!
at&t
korea aerospace
columbus nova

holy shit!

6
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 2:57:11pm

Comment from last thread…

See!!! Proof it wasn’t Trump campaign money. Rudy was right all along.

Well, unless Russia was interfering in our election by ‘campaigning’ for Trump.

Oh, wait…

7
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 2:58:26pm

re: #6 ObserverArt

Comment from last thread…

See!!! Proof it wasn’t Trump campaign money. Rudy was right all along.

Well, unless Russia was interfering in our election by ‘campaigning’ for Trump.

Oh, wait…

“campaign money” is a straw man / distraction anyway

8
Eclectic Cyborg  May 8, 2018 • 2:58:27pm

re: #5 dangerman

I’m sure the AT&T thing is related to the Time Warner merger.

9
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 2:58:27pm

Just being cautious here… but upon what evidence does Avenatti base is assertions?

He better be sure he’s not getting played.

10
Charles Johnson  May 8, 2018 • 3:00:07pm

You can’t stop watching this shit for even five minutes or you’ll miss another huge piece of evidence against Trump.

11
Eclectic Cyborg  May 8, 2018 • 3:00:25pm

re: #9 freetoken

Avenatti seems pretty smart to me. I think he has all
his ducks in a row.

12
Eclectic Cyborg  May 8, 2018 • 3:01:26pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

You can’t stop watching this shit for even five minutes or you’ll miss another huge piece of evidence against Trump.

Another piece of evidence that the GOP doesn’t care about and will blissfully ignore.

13
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 3:02:17pm
15
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:02:59pm

re: #9 freetoken

Just being cautious here… but upon what evidence does Avenatti base is assertions?

He better be sure he’s not getting played.

He seems to have a pretty good knowledge of Cohen’s materials from the FBI raids on his homes and offices. He is coy about it all though, because of the ongoing search through those materials to gauge what can be used in the case.

I’m thinking there are already available banking records. Cohen is said to have recorded and kept everything.

16
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 3:03:31pm
17
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:04:47pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

Avenatti seems pretty smart to me. I think he has all
his ducks in a row.

Psyops is a tricky thing.

re: #16 Jenner7

Mueller, however, I suspect is fully aware of the ins and outs of ways to derail an investigation.

18
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 3:05:41pm
19
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:07:53pm

Nick Akerman is on with Ari right now and just said it appears all of Cohen’s new revelations are coming directly off banking records. He doesn’t know how he came to get them, but it is obvious he has the goods.

20
Renaissance_Man  May 8, 2018 • 3:09:16pm

re: #17 freetoken

Psyops is a tricky thing.

Mueller, however, I suspect is fully aware of the ins and outs of ways to derail an investigation.

I too am somewhat concerned about this release. While it might refocus some media attention on crimes in Trumpworld, I worry that Michael Avenatti, smart as he is, might be a little too focused on headlines, and that releasing documents for that reason alone may jeopardise the legal aspect.

Then again, the American voters, media, and government have already failed us. I am not yet convinced the legal system will not fail us too. I suppose the American media might as well get another go.

21
KerFuFFler  May 8, 2018 • 3:09:38pm

There is another potentially hot story brewing though it is just speculation at this point. Paul Campos———a frequent contributor to the Lawyers Guns and Money blog———got an article in New York Magazine suggesting that the woman who got the $1.6 million NDA had actually been involved with Trump, not Broidy. Cohen arranged the NDA, and Broidy agreed to be the fall guy for the affair if it ever came to light. This would protect Trump and Broidy would be owed really big favors. I know it sounds wild and complicated but Campos comes up with A LOT of support for this theory. The article is longish but very interesting.

Also, it turns out that Broidy has paid someone else’s mistress for them before and extracted a huge deal using that leverage.

22
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:10:25pm

This is one of them days isn’t it?

Shit coming from all directions. All centered on The Orange Blob in The White House.

He did say he operates in chaos.

I don’t like chaos. Too unpredictable…you know.

23
Cheechako  May 8, 2018 • 3:12:31pm

Anyone heard of a guy named Schneiderman?

Oh, that’s yesterdays news.

24
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:13:52pm

re: #20 Renaissance_Man

One thing at play, and this is a big-picture societal thing, and a possibly horrendous problem for us, could be that Avenatti realizes that the court-of-public-opinion is now the real court, and the established legal courts are being rapidly eroded under Trump and pliant Republicans.

That is, Avenatti knows that Trump can play the pardon-card, then Pence can play the pardon-card for Trump, etc., and a Republican controlled Congress will do nothing about it.

25
Blind Frog Belly White  May 8, 2018 • 3:14:50pm

re: #23 Cheechako

Anyone heard of a guy named Schneiderman?

Oh, that’s yesterdays news.

As I said would happen.

26
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 3:15:34pm
27
fern01  May 8, 2018 • 3:16:17pm

re: #3 Eclectic Cyborg

Nothing is a bridge too far for todays GOP.

With these spineless assholes, Trump is bulletproof.

truth to tell

When I wake and discover the US is having meetings with NK and has stopped supporting its prior Allies in regard to Iran - the world as I knew it is dissolving in front of me - and the GOP and the congress take their cash and carry on regardless.

I like to think there will be retribution. I doubt I will see little of it.

28
Blind Frog Belly White  May 8, 2018 • 3:16:22pm

Just ask his three wives. Or his contractors. Or his creditors.

29
Charles Johnson  May 8, 2018 • 3:17:48pm

If the allegations against Schneiderman are true, and they seem very credible, he at least did the right thing by resigning immediately instead of grabbing the spotlight and staying in for another media cycle or two by fighting and denying, giving right wing media more fuel for the distraction machine.

30
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 3:18:06pm

re: #18 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Wendy Siegelman is the one who creates all the detailed charts of the interconnections among the band of thieves we all know and love. If she thinks Avenatti’s revelation is (fire emoji), I’m all ears.

31
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:19:31pm

And Heidi Przybyla just said on Ari’s The Beat…Avenatti said two weeks ago Trump would not serve out his term based on knowledge he had at that time but couldn’t divulge yet.

Must be a hint that Avenatti has been sitting on this for some time and got the go-ahead to release now.

Now Ari and Akerman are talking about Mueller is working with New York DA office and that may be the connection to these bank documents.

Did this all come from Manafort and Gates and maybe they are connecting the dots in public now to scare the ever-loving crap outta anyone that knows what was going on. This definitely seems to be a loaded explosive device.

32
Charles Johnson  May 8, 2018 • 3:23:03pm

Yowza!

33
Charles Johnson  May 8, 2018 • 3:25:05pm
34
Renaissance_Man  May 8, 2018 • 3:28:23pm

re: #24 freetoken

One thing at play, and this is a big-picture societal thing, and a possibly horrendous problem for us, could be that Avenatti realizes that the court-of-public-opinion is now the real court, and the established legal courts are being rapidly eroded under Trump and pliant Republicans.

That is, Avenatti knows that Trump can play the pardon-card, then Pence can play the pardon-card for Trump, etc., and a Republican controlled Congress will do nothing about it.

That’s basically my point also - Avenatti might be trying to involve the media for selfish purposes, but he might also be unfortunately prescient in seeing that the court of public opinion is the only one that might have any effect.

The US government and other major institutions have demonstrated that they are completely vulnerable to the corrosive power of the cult. I’m not totally sure that the legal system won’t similarly be vulnerable.

The US mass media might be initially predisposed to move against this regime out of its desire for headlines, and because it keeps Trump as the centre of the story. But once Democrats retake the House and have governmental power, I think attacking Democrats will become the norm again.

35
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:30:20pm

Akerman is emphasizing he has always thought the raid on Cohen was about the Russian Investigation all along and had nothing to do with Stormy Daniels.

I do remember him saying this on Ari’s show on the day the raids went down.

Is that cover in that it got the press on the Avenatti side of Cohen’s issues and Mueller could catch Cohen off-guard thinking it was Stormy related without all the speculation?

It might have caused Trump to focus on Stormy too, which is why he has been throwing a fit about all of that and sending Rudy out.

Flash note before commercial: Avenatti to be on with Lawrence O’Donnell tonight.

36
fern01  May 8, 2018 • 3:30:28pm

re: #20 Renaissance_Man

I too am somewhat concerned about this release. While it might refocus some media attention on crimes in Trumpworld, I worry that Michael Avenatti, smart as he is, might be a little too focused on headlines, and that releasing documents for that reason alone may jeopardise the legal aspect.

Then again, the American voters, media, and government have already failed us. I am not yet convinced the legal system will not fail us too. I suppose the American media might as well get another go.

The GOP would be screaming it from the hill tops if it was a dem administration. Headlines seem to win votes in trump times - Michael is doing the world a huge favor.

37
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 3:31:45pm

19 minutes ago.
Apparently he is still gathering wool over what comes next in this addled thought:

38
Belafon  May 8, 2018 • 3:32:06pm

Law question: Is it uncommon for plaintiff lawyers to publish executive summaries?

39
fern01  May 8, 2018 • 3:32:09pm

re: #28 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

Just ask his three wives. Or his contractors. Or his creditors.

Or the idiots who voted for him.

40
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 3:33:12pm

re: #37 Backwoods_Sleuth

19 minutes ago.
Apparently he is still gathering wool over what comes next in this addled thought:

[Embedded content]

Bolton hasn’t dictated the rest to him yet.

41
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 3:35:25pm

When Friar Tuck (Avenetti) meets the Bishop of Nottingham (Michael Cohen and the rest of the Trump Crime Syndicate):

Robin Hood - Bishop thrown out of window.

42
ipsos  May 8, 2018 • 3:35:26pm

I really, really want to believe that whenever the current administration collapses, whether it’s soon or 2021, and when we return a sane leader to the White House, that the rest of the world will understand that most of us never wanted it to be the way it’s been, and that they’ll welcome us back into civilized society and let us get quickly to the work of undoing all the harm that’s been done. It’s just terrifying to see how bad that harm will get in the meantime.

43
HappyWarrior  May 8, 2018 • 3:38:58pm

re: #42 ipsos

I really, really want to believe that whenever the current administration collapses, whether it’s soon or 2021, and when we return a sane leader to the White House, that the rest of the world will understand that most of us never wanted it to be the way it’s been, and that they’ll welcome us back into civilized society and let us get quickly to the work of undoing all the harm that’s been done. It’s just terrifying to see how bad that harm will get in the meantime.

It won’t be easy. That’s why we need to choose someone not only capable of governing but a great representative of our nation to the world.

44
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:39:04pm

re: #34 Renaissance_Man

The US government and other major institutions have demonstrated that they are completely vulnerable to the corrosive power of the cult.

I believe it has more to do with money.

The US money supply is counted in the trillions of dollars (depending on M1 v. M2 v. etc.)

And while it was a popular meme among the self-labeled progressives to talk about the “1%”, the real problem I propose is the 1% of the 1%.

That is, within a circle of a few hundreds of thousand people on this planet most of the monetary wealth is circulated and controlled.

What we’re seeing with Trump and his international connections is a brief glimpse into this circle of the hyper-wealthy, and how politics is really a theatre in which the masses are played for this or that gain by the uber-rich.

45
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 3:39:32pm
46
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 3:39:48pm

re: #42 ipsos

the rest of the world will understand that most of us never wanted it to be the way it’s been, and that they’ll welcome us back into civilized society and let us get quickly to the work of undoing all the harm that’s been done.

Don’t count on it…there’s a reason why we’ve been called “Ugly Americans” for quite a while….

47
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 3:42:05pm

re: #45 jaunte

[Embedded content]

admitting to paying for “insights into understanding the new administration” sounds a whole lot like “insider trading”.

edited to fix something there…

48
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 3:42:12pm

re: #38 Belafon

Law question: Is it uncommon for plaintiff lawyers to publish executive summaries?

It’s uncommon for lawyers to litigate cases in the public view. In part because it can detrimentally affect your client’s case. The California Bar Rules include this:

A member who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that a reasonable person would expect to be disseminated by means of public communication if the member knows or reasonably should know that it will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

There are certain exceptions, but it’s always dangerous to be on TV as much as Avanatti is. Now, given that the main point of the case would likely not entitle them to a jury trial (declaratory relief is equitable in nature and thus would be conducted as a bench trial - the defamation claims are different though), maybe he thinks he’s less likely to materially prejudice adjudicative proceedings… but I’m guessing judges don’t typically like this kind of stuff.

49
Blind Frog Belly White  May 8, 2018 • 3:43:34pm

re: #45 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Wait - so ATT gives money to the same LLC Cohen uses to pay off a pornstar for Trump, “to provide insights into understanding the new administration”, from a one-person company that is comprised entirely of Trump’s fixer?

50
jaunte  May 8, 2018 • 3:43:50pm
51
MsJ  May 8, 2018 • 3:44:45pm

Welp, this has been quite a day.

Reading this thread alone was like reading the last 10 pages of a John Sanford novel. I couldn’t scroll fast enough.

Excuse me. I need a cigarette.

52
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 3:45:23pm

re: #45 jaunte

AT&T reminding everyone that it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.

53
fern01  May 8, 2018 • 3:46:32pm

re: #51 MsJ

Welp, this has been quite a day.

Reading this thread alone was like reading the last 10 pages of a John Sanford novel. I couldn’t scroll fast enough.

Excuse me. I need a cigarette.

Some days I so wish I hadn’t stopped smoking cause it’s too early in my world to start drinking. Then again, it’s 5pm somewhere around the globe

54
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:46:44pm

re: #48 KGxvi

Given the public statements from Trump, Trump’s agencies, various Republicans, and their agencies (e.g., Fox News), could not Avenatti argue to a judge that his client has no option to not fight a public campaign against her?

That is, could not Avenatti make a case that the public political nature of the case requires Stormy’s attorney to counter efforts to publicly discredit the entire civil judicial process?

55
TedStriker  May 8, 2018 • 3:47:13pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

It won’t be easy. That’s why we need to choose someone not only capable of governing but a great representative of our nation to the world.

re: #46 The Major

Don’t count on it…there’s a reason why we’ve been called “Ugly Americans” for quite a while….

Even if a Democrat along the lines of Hillary or Obama gets elected POTUS in 2020 and tries to roll back not only the external damage, but also the internal damage, Trump has done and will do for the rest of his term (however long that may be), the rest of the world will be very skittish about taking us as a country at our word…and they would be justified, because eventually, they’ll be a GOP POTUS that will do even more damage than Trump and knows what they’re doing in the course of it. Our allies and the rest of the world will be all like, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”, and I can’t say as I’d blame them.

The American Century, as we knew it, is stone-cold dead and it will take decades to fix…if we even can.

56
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:47:37pm

re: #49 Blind Frog Belly White

Wait - so ATT gives money to the same LLC Cohen uses to pay off a pornstar for Trump, “to provide insights into understanding the new administration”, from a one-person company that is comprised entirely of Trump’s fixer?

What…you want ATT to come right out and say it was money to buy Trump favor by ‘helping’ The Don with a slush fund for keeping affairs quiet?

What do you take them for?

57
TedStriker  May 8, 2018 • 3:48:02pm

re: #47 Backwoods_Sleuth

admitting to paying for “insights into understanding the new administration” sounds a whole lot like “insider trading”.

edited to fix something there…

Sounds like good old-fashioned graft to me.

58
Renaissance_Man  May 8, 2018 • 3:48:31pm

re: #42 ipsos

I really, really want to believe that whenever the current administration collapses, whether it’s soon or 2021, and when we return a sane leader to the White House, that the rest of the world will understand that most of us never wanted it to be the way it’s been, and that they’ll welcome us back into civilized society and let us get quickly to the work of undoing all the harm that’s been done. It’s just terrifying to see how bad that harm will get in the meantime.

I’m not sure the rest of the world quite understands yet just how insane Americans have become. They don’t hear or see everything that happens, and they’re still inclined to operate under the same assumptions that mainstream US media feed its home audiences - that mainstream, white Americans do what they do for good reasons, even if a bit misguided. They probably believe that many might have been fooled, duped in their economic anxiety. So, with that in mind, it may well happen that the rest of the world will want to do what Americans will probably want to do at the end of this, which is pretend that it was all done for good reasons, and that it’s all behind us now, and time to move on.

They shouldn’t.

Without real consequences, America will not be better. If we allow ordinary Americans to just put all of this behind us and move on, if we allow the American media to treat this as just another episode and continue on the way they are, the next dictator won’t be as stupid as Trump, and won’t make the same mistakes. Americans will swoon for the next one even harder, because he’ll know that he won’t have to cover his crimes - he should openly commit them and revel in them, not dissimilar to how Duterte is now, but grander by several orders of magnitude, and amplified by the power of the biggest soapbox in human history. Without real consequences, Americans will gladly cheer for the next dictator and criminal who commands their attention, and happily support any atrocity he commits.

59
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 3:49:22pm

re: #45 jaunte

Full Stmt: “Essential Consulting was one of several firms we engaged in early 2017 to provide insights into understanding the new administration. They did no legal or lobbying work for us, and the contract ended in December 2017”

you paid an llc michael cohen owned , NOT his law practice to “provide insights”?
what kind of expert is cohen? what insights?
that he had (or could get) and you didnt have?
call it what you want - its access. its lobbying

60
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 3:49:25pm

re: #51 MsJ

Excuse me. I need a cigarette.

That is such a straight line…

61
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:50:28pm

re: #59 dangerman

what kind of expert is cohen?

Well, it does indeed appear that Cohen is an expert into some aspects of Donald Trump.

62
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 3:50:52pm

re: #59 dangerman

you paid an llc michael cohen owned , NOT his law practice to “provide insights”?
what kind of expert is cohen? what insights?
that he had (or could get) and you didnt have?
call it what you want - its access. its lobbying

I’d say he was an expert bagman.

63
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 3:51:36pm

re: #55 TedStriker

Even if a Democrat along the lines of Hillary or Obama gets elected POTUS in 2020 and tries to roll back not only the external damage, but also the internal damage, Trump has done and will do for the rest of his term (however long that may be), the rest of the world will be very skittish about taking us as a country at our word…and they would be justified, because eventually, they’ll be a GOP POTUS that will do even more damage than Trump and knows what they’re doing in the course of it. Our allies and the rest of the world will be all like, “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”, and I can’t say as I’d blame them.

The American Century, as we knew it, is stone-cold dead and it will take decades to fix…if we can.

It will take liberals getting tough and guaranteeing themselves permanent political power, as Ian Millhiser posted. Pack the courts. Gerrymander. Close their early voting. Deny them seats. Throw them out of legislatures where possible. Do everything possible to change the law to favor them, then change the law even more. Make it clear to the world that these GOoPers are never, ever going to be allowed to come back.

64
goddamnedfrank  May 8, 2018 • 3:52:37pm
65
Belafon  May 8, 2018 • 3:53:23pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

How’s that workin’ out for ya?

66
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 3:53:43pm

re: #63 Brian J.

I would not support using the authoritarian’s playbook.

A few simple changes to the Constitution to ensure a proper representational government will go a long ways.

67
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 3:56:46pm

re: #66 freetoken

I would not support using the authoritarian’s playbook.

A few simple changes to the Constitution to ensure a proper representational government will go a long ways.

And how exactly do you think that will happen? No Constitutional amendment has been proposed and sent to the states since 1978, and none has been approved since 1971. You need 2/3 of each house of Congress and majorities of 3/4 of state legislatures. Even maximizing the tools used against us, that’s not likely to happen- too many square, empty right-wing states.

68
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 3:57:40pm

re: #54 freetoken

Given the public statements from Trump, Trump’s agencies, various Republicans, and their agencies (e.g., Fox News), could not Avenatti argue to a judge that his client has no option to not fight a public campaign against her?

That is, could not Avenatti make a case that the public political nature of the case requires Stormy’s attorney to counter efforts to publicly discredit the entire civil judicial process?

He definitely could. And I’m not going to criticize the way he’s handling his case. It’s always a bit different when you’re dealing with a high profile party, and it’s especially different when one of the parties is the POTUS, and it’s especially especially different when one of the parties is this particular POTUS.

69
Cheechako  May 8, 2018 • 3:58:11pm

I really dread the thought of living in a country that sends a POTUS to prison, but I think I can make an exception.

70
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 3:59:13pm

re: #69 Cheechako

I really dread the thought of living in a country that sends a POTUS to prison, but I think I can make an exception.

We’d live in a much better country if Richard Nixon had been tried and, if necessary, sent to prison. America needed and still needs the lesson that the law applies to every American, without exception.

71
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:00:05pm

re: #66 freetoken

I would not support using the authoritarian’s playbook.

A few simple changes to the Constitution to ensure a proper representational government will go a long ways.

re: #67 Brian J.

And how exactly do you think that will happen? No Constitutional amendment has been proposed and sent to the states since 1978, and none has been approved since 1971. You need 2/3 of each house of Congress and majorities of 3/4 of state legislatures. Even maximizing the tools used against us, that’s not likely to happen- too many square, empty right-wing states.

Not only that, what are the “few simple changes”?

72
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 8, 2018 • 4:01:06pm

re: #70 Brian J.

We’d live in a much better country if Richard Nixon had been tried and, if necessary, sent to prison. America needed and still needs the lesson that the law applies to every American, without exception.

Iran-Contra was a hundred times worse than anything Nixon did, and they didn’t send St. Ronnie of Alzheimers to the hoosegow….

73
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 4:01:16pm

re: #69 Cheechako

I really dread the thought of living in a country that sends a POTUS to prison, but I think I can make an exception.

I think I would be proud to live in a country that has the legal means to protect the citizens from a dangerous leader.

I was taught all along that was the United States of America.

74
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:01:25pm

The American Revolutionary War was a radical movement.

The US Constitution was sort of radical, though tempered by politics (populated states vs. sparsely populated states, slave-rich states vs. low-slave states, etc.)

The US Civil War was very much a reactionary result against the ending of slavery as well as modernization in general.

The New Deal was a tiny-bit radical, a soft implementation of socialism.

A nation our size probably is not going to produce a dramatic shift in policy towards a more progressive stance, but it can produce a small step in that direction.

I believe that Trump and his religious right marks have overplayed their hand. They’ve been too reactionary, and I do believe the Democrats will take at least one of the houses of Congress in Nov.

75
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:01:58pm

re: #72 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Iran-Contra was a hundred times worse than anything Nixon did, and they didn’t send St. Ronnie of Alzheimers to the hoosegow….

Exactly, and that was only the first consequence of letting Tricky Dick walk.

76
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 4:02:50pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

Maybe someone need to call Steve Ryan’s attorney for a clarification.

77
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 4:03:41pm

re: #76 Skip Intro

Maybe someone need to call Steve Ryan’s attorney for a clarification.

Does he have one?
/

78
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:03:47pm

re: #74 freetoken

The American Revolutionary War was a radical movement.

The US Constitution was sort of radical, though tempered by politics (populated states vs. sparsely populated states, slave-rich states vs. low-slave states, etc.)

The US Civil War was very much a reactionary results against the ending of slavery as well as modernization in general.

The New Deal was a tiny-bit radical, a soft implementation of socialism.

A nation our size probably is not going to produce a dramatic shift in policy towards a more progressive stance, but it can produce a small step in that direction.

I believe that Trump and his religious right marks have overplayed their hand. They’ve been too reactionary, and I do believe the Democrats will take at least one of the houses of Congress in Nov.

You’ll notice that each of there brief progressive/ left/ liberal episodes lasted very briefly, followed by a long interval of reaction. That strongly suggests that liberals need to strike like lightning at their next opportunity, and use every legal tool to maximize their advantage. (Admit DC! Admit Puerto Rico! Split California into two or three or four!)

79
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 4:03:48pm

re: #69 Cheechako

I really dread the thought of living in a country that sends a POTUS to prison, but I think I can make an exception.

Don’t fret it, it will never happen.

80
Dave In Austin  May 8, 2018 • 4:05:04pm
81
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 4:05:25pm

re: #79 Skip Intro

Don’t fret it, it will never happen.

He’ll probably keel over from what Dirty Harry calls a “Vapor lock” (aka heart attack)…

82
Charmingly Persistent  May 8, 2018 • 4:05:50pm

re: #42 ipsos

I really, really want to believe that whenever the current administration collapses, whether it’s soon or 2021, and when we return a sane leader to the White House, that the rest of the world will understand that most of us never wanted it to be the way it’s been, and that they’ll welcome us back into civilized society and let us get quickly to the work of undoing all the harm that’s been done. It’s just terrifying to see how bad that harm will get in the meantime.

We already used that card getting back in the world’s good graces after George W. Bush. I don’t think other countries will be as trusting again - and I don’t think they should be.

83
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:05:53pm

re: #74 freetoken

A nation our size probably is not going to produce a dramatic shift in policy towards a more progressive stance, but it can produce a small step in that direction.

California went from being a swing state to being reliably Democratic in one election cycle, and almost entirely because of Prop 187. But it still took almost two decades for it to become “progressive” - hell, Prop 8 won here the same year Obama was elected.

Real, substantive change like that takes time.

84
Renaissance_Man  May 8, 2018 • 4:06:08pm

re: #71 KGxvi

Not only that, what are the “few simple changes”?

America desperately needs mandatory voting and probably preferential, parliamentary voting as well, but at least mandatory. I think those are simple changes with huge effects, that shouldn’t require a constitutional change.

The American electoral system heavily favours white, rural people, just as its culture does. We are reaching the point where this apartheid-lite governing system is becoming untenable. The real question is how to change it.

85
goddamnedfrank  May 8, 2018 • 4:06:43pm
86
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:07:03pm

re: #82 Charmingly Persistent

We already used that card getting back in the world’s good graces after George W. Bush. I don’t think other countries will be as trusting again - and I don’t think they should be.

There’s also the fact that China, India, and even most of Europe are growing faster than the US economically. The US has been losing ground against the rest of the world pretty much continuously since 1945, when the US had nearly 50% of the world’s GDP, and that’s not about to stop.

87
Cheechako  May 8, 2018 • 4:07:26pm

re: #70 Brian J.

We’d live in a much better country if Richard Nixon had been tried and, if necessary, sent to prison. America needed and still needs the lesson that the law applies to every American, without exception.

I believe Ford had the best intentions to pardon Nixon. At the time, the pardon was meant to “heal” the Country and help bring us all together. Time has shown that the pardon has given others a license to behave the same as Nixon, if not worse.

88
Charles Johnson  May 8, 2018 • 4:08:19pm
89
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:08:35pm

re: #71 KGxvi

Not only that, what are the “few simple changes”?

1) Require that Congressional districts be set by non-partisan bodies.
2) Require that the number of Representatives in Congress grows in proportion to the population.
3) For elections: require complete transparency for all funds related to campaigns, limit the amount any fictitious person (e.g. corporations, foundations, etc.) can give to a campaign; eliminate PACs.
4) Reinforce that the right to vote is a fundamental right of every (real human) adult and a state cannot take that away by any requirement such as poll taxes, ID laws, etc.

90
MsJ  May 8, 2018 • 4:08:51pm

re: #87 Cheechako

I believe Ford had the best intentions to pardon Nixon. At the time, the pardon was meant to “heal” the Country and help bring us all together. Time has shown that the pardon has given others a license to behave the same as Nixon, if not worse.

T. H. I. S.

91
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:09:42pm

re: #83 KGxvi

California went from being a swing state to being reliably Democratic in one election cycle, and almost entirely because of Prop 187. But it still took almost two decades for it to become “progressive” - hell, Prop 8 won here the same year Obama was elected.

Real, substantive change like that takes time.

Clinton was called the winner in California the instant the polls closed in 1992, and even in ‘94 the Democrats won the majority of statewide races. Prop 187 didn’t cause Cali to go Democratic; it just ensured that it wouldn’t go back as long as the GOP continued to be a white supremacist cult.

92
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:11:13pm

re: #78 Brian J.

You’ll notice that each of there brief progressive/ left/ liberal episodes lasted very briefly, followed by a long interval of reaction. That strongly suggests that liberals need to strike like lightning at their next opportunity, and use every legal tool to maximize their advantage. (Admit DC! Admit Puerto Rico! Split California into two or three or four!)

Splitting California would likely mean more power for Republicans. There are a lot of parts of the state that still vote Republican, and depending on how apportionment would work itself out, Dems could lose seats in the House. Admitting DC would probably require a constitutional amendment to address the 23rd Amendment. And the statehood issue in Puerto Rico is still complicated - and we’ve no idea what a post statehood political landscape would look like there.

Lastly, as a life long Californian, the next time I hear someone say we should split up our state, I’m going to register my disagreement by kicking them in the genitals. We’ve recently passed the UK on the list of largest economies in the world (fifth!), we don’t need to be split up.

93
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:11:45pm

re: #78 Brian J.

You’ll notice that each of there brief progressive/ left/ liberal episodes lasted very briefly, followed by a long interval of reaction. That strongly suggests that liberals need to strike like lightning …

I look at humans this way: as we get older we dislike change more and more.

This is why, I propose, societies seem to want to go back to the “good old days”.

Yet somehow change still comes.

We are far, far better off today as a society than we were 200 years, despite seeming to always want to take a step backwards after we step forward.

94
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:11:59pm
95
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:12:59pm

re: #92 KGxvi

Splitting California would likely mean more power for Republicans. There are a lot of parts of the state that still vote Republican, and depending on how apportionment would work itself out, Dems could lose seats in the House. Admitting DC would probably require a constitutional amendment to address the 23rd Amendment. And the statehood issue in Puerto Rico is still complicated - and we’ve no idea what a post statehood political landscape would look like there.

Lastly, as a life long Californian, the next time I hear someone say we should split up our state, I’m going to register my disagreement by kicking them in the genitals. We’ve recently passed the UK on the list of largest economies in the world (fifth!), we don’t need to be split up.

Splitting California in half would give Democrats two Senate seats in exchange for possibly losing one House seat (or not, or maybe even gaining one if we’re lucky). That’s a winning trade. Splitting the state North from South (already done by the State Senate in 1965) would produce one SFBay-dominated Democratic state and one LA-dominated Democratic state.

96
Targetpractice  May 8, 2018 • 4:15:20pm

When your local Trumper boasts that “Trump pulled out of the Iran deal!,” point this out to them:

97
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 4:15:51pm
98
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:15:53pm
99
BlueGrl21  May 8, 2018 • 4:17:48pm

re: #95 Brian J.

Splitting California in half would give Democrats two Senate seats in exchange for possibly losing one House seat (or not, or maybe even gaining one if we’re lucky). That’s a winning trade. Splitting the state North from South (already done by the State Senate in 1965) would produce one SFBay-dominated Democratic state and one LA-dominated Democratic state.

There are no conditions under which California would ever be split.

100
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:19:45pm

re: #89 freetoken

1) Require that Congressional districts be set by non-partisan bodies.
2) Require that the number of Representatives in Congress grows in proportion to the population.
3) For elections: require complete transparency for all funds related to campaigns, limit the amount any fictitious person (e.g. corporations, foundations, etc.) can give to a campaign; eliminate PACs.
4) Reinforce that the right to vote is a fundamental right of every (real human) adult and a state cannot take that away by any requirement such as poll taxes, ID laws, etc.

Your second suggestion was actually included, originally, in the constitution. However, the 14th Amendment has been read to allow the federal government to determine the size of the House.

I’m skeptical of eliminating PACs, though I believe their contributions should be public record. If only because I am not fond of policies that would limit the right to free speech and/or freedom of association. That said, I believe you shouldn’t be able to donate to a candidate if you can’t vote in their election. So no out of state donations, no corporate/union/foundation donations.

On the first and fourth points, I can’t really disagree much.

101
Eclectic Cyborg  May 8, 2018 • 4:19:50pm

AT&T getting hammered on Twitter.

102
MsJ  May 8, 2018 • 4:20:13pm
103
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:20:39pm

re: #99 BlueGrl21

There are no conditions under which California would ever be split.

Indeed.

And furthermore, looking back at US history, one of the ways we got into the problems we have today was the eagerness to create states. There was a lot of mercenary state-hood efforts being made by rich guys wanting to get richer.

104
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:23:45pm

Our Revolution is serving up its newest loser: Sue Spicer, challenging Andre Carson in the Indianapolis-based 7th District, trails more than 4 to 1 in the very early going.

105
Cheechako  May 8, 2018 • 4:25:15pm

After today, I think trump pissed away any chance for a Nobel “Peace” Prize.

106
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:25:38pm

re: #91 Brian J.

Clinton was called the winner in California the instant the polls closed in 1992, and even in ‘94 the Democrats won the majority of statewide races. Prop 187 didn’t cause Cali to go Democratic; it just ensured that it wouldn’t go back as long as the GOP continued to be a white supremacist cult.

Clinton was called the winner early (only winning 46% of the vote) because Perot got 20% of the vote in California in ‘92. And in 94, the Republicans won more statewide races than the Democrats (governor, secretary of state, AG, treasurer, and insurance commissioner vs US senate, lt governor, and controller). And Feinstein won with only 46% that year.

107
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:25:46pm

re: #100 KGxvi

Your second suggestion was actually included, originally, in the constitution. However, the 14th Amendment has been read to allow the federal government to determine the size of the House.

I’m skeptical of eliminating PACs, though I believe their contributions should be public record. If only because I am not fond of policies that would limit the right to free speech and/or freedom of association. That said, I believe you shouldn’t be able to donate to a candidate if you can’t vote in their election. So no out of state donations, no corporate/union/foundation donations.

On the first and fourth points, I can’t really disagree much.

I’m growing partial to the British approach: forbid all broadcast election ads. Money in politics is less of a problem when there’s less to spend it on.

108
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 4:26:21pm
109
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 4:26:44pm

re: #82 Charmingly Persistent

First time I’ve seen you here since you asked for ideas about identifying potential Dem voters. Will put my thoughts in private tag so as not to bore everyone.

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

Edited to remove double version of long-winded post

110
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:27:28pm

re: #106 KGxvi

Clinton was called the winner early (only winning 46% of the vote) because Perot got 20% of the vote in California in ‘92. And in 94, the Republicans won more statewide races than the Democrats (governor, secretary of state, AG, treasurer, and insurance commissioner vs US senate, lt governor, and controller). And Feinstein won with only 46% that year.

Perot’s vote would have split more or less evenly in 1992, and Feinstein still got more votes than Mike Huffington (who’d have likely likely switched parties, judging from his and his wife’s public statements.) You’re right about the statewide offices, my mistake, but most of those wins were with incumbents and couldn’t be held without them.

111
Targetpractice  May 8, 2018 • 4:28:25pm

re: #108 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

It seems that Cohen was not simply Trump’s fixer, but also his chief money launderer.

112
Targetpractice  May 8, 2018 • 4:29:18pm

re: #104 Brian J.

Our Revolution is serving up its newest loser: Sue Spicer, challenging Andre Carson in the Indianapolis-based 7th District, trails more than 4 to 1 in the very early going.

Translated to Bro: “THIS IS PROOF THAT THE DNC IS SHUTTING OUT TRUE PROGRESSIVES AND WHY THE GOP WILL WIN BIG IN NOVEMBER!!!!”

113
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 4:29:45pm

I got nothing…

114
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 4:30:50pm

re: #113 Jenner7

Republicanism in a nutshell.

115
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 8, 2018 • 4:32:08pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

It seems that Cohen was not simply Trump’s fixer, but also his chief money launderer.

Does it strike anybody but me that all these transactions are some pretty penny-ante shit for a putative “billionaire” to be involved in? Could it be that…gasp…tRump isn’t as rich as he’d like us to think? Unpossible!

116
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:32:41pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

It seems that Cohen was not simply Trump’s fixer, but also his chief money launderer.

i think that’s the primary reason he set up essential consultants - to bury the cash

the daniels payment was maybe an afterthought / benefit

117
The Major  May 8, 2018 • 4:32:42pm

re: #104 Brian J.

Our Revolution

I have a very dear friend who uses that phrase - after Sanders lost, she switched to Dr. Jill Stein, calling Clinton a “Flawed Candidate”.

Gaah….

118
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:01pm

re: #113 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

I got nothing…

This is why I think Democrats are wasting their time trying to run in rural white Southern areas; race is EVERYTHING there.

119
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:14pm

re: #104 Brian J.

Our Revolution is serving up its newest loser: Sue Spicer, challenging Andre Carson in the Indianapolis-based 7th District, trails more than 4 to 1 in the very early going.

Let us hope that their Ohio candidate loses to Richard Cordray by a similar margin.

120
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:15pm

I mean, HAVE PEOPLE LOST THEIR DAMN MINDS?!?!

121
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:18pm

re: #113 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

I got nothing…

i do not engage with stupid people

122
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:29pm

re: #115 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

These sort of small donations (in the $100k range) are all customary between the oligarchs, no?

Are they not way to signal “we are your friend”?

123
Jenner7  May 8, 2018 • 4:33:32pm

So, maybe I did have something. lol

124
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:34:00pm

re: #121 dangerman

i do not engage with stupid people

He’s not necessarily stupid, but hating the blacks and the browns and the libs and the yellows is literally more important than life and death to him.

125
ipsos  May 8, 2018 • 4:35:27pm

I’m heartened by some of what I’m seeing in Indiana. I have family in IN-3, the Fort Wayne district, where Dem turnout was very strong today and Courtney Tritch, a really good candidate, looks to be running away with the primary to run against incumbent Jim Banks in November.

One seat at a time…

126
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:35:30pm

re: #124 Brian J.

He’s not necessarily stupid, but hating the blacks and the browns and the libs and the yellows is literally more important than life and death to him.

well in my mind hating the …..AND voting against your own self- interest is pretty much a definition of stupid/dumb/moranic, etc

127
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 8, 2018 • 4:35:40pm

re: #101 Eclectic Cyborg

AT&T getting hammered on Twitter.

“… A document released by Avenatti stated that “Essential received $200,000 in four separate payments of $50,000 in late 2017 and early 2018 from AT&T.”

An AT&T spokesman would not confirm the amount, but did confirm that it enlisted Cohen’s company.

“Essential Consulting was one of several firms we engaged in early 2017 to provide insights into understanding the new administration,” AT&T said Tuesday evening. “They did no legal or lobbying work for us, and the contract ended in December 2017.” …”

128
HappyWarrior  May 8, 2018 • 4:35:45pm

re: #118 Brian J.

This is why I think Democrats are wasting their time trying to run in rural white Southern areas; race is EVERYTHING there.

It’s an entire state.

129
HappyWarrior  May 8, 2018 • 4:36:05pm

re: #113 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

I got nothing…

You could you know not vote Republican at all

130
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:36:53pm

re: #113 Jenner7

Getting back to our culture war…

The big thing to remember about beliefs, such as religious beliefs, is that they are programming our brains.

The reason preachers repeat the same things over and over is to reinforce such programming.

This is why there are no simple fixes to our governmental problems.

We are facing deep programming into myths, and teachings designed to manipulate groups.

131
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:37:00pm
132
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:37:30pm

re: #131 Backwoods_Sleuth

Totally forgot about him.

133
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 4:38:33pm

re: #132 freetoken

Totally forgot about him.

I’ve already forgotten about him again.

134
Targetpractice  May 8, 2018 • 4:38:59pm

So, how long before the crowd that insisted that donations to a legitimate international charity were really “pay-to-play” payments made to get to Hillary Clinton begins accusing Trump of using Cohen’s “consulting group” to do the same?

I’m guessing somewhere between now and “Heat Death of the Universe.”

135
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 8, 2018 • 4:39:00pm

Yes, the world is pretty much in the crapper

136
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:39:47pm

re: #119 BeachDem

Let us hope that their Ohio candidate loses to Richard Cordray by a similar margin.

That is indeed the case, although again with few precincts reporting. It’s Cordray 73, Kucinich 17.

137
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 8, 2018 • 4:40:29pm

November should be a sterling opportunity to get rid of that asspimple Reichert here, but I just know the Dems are going to run Darcy fucking Burner against him AGAIN! I just fucking know it!

138
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 8, 2018 • 4:40:47pm
139
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:43:35pm

re: #130 freetoken

Getting back to our culture war…

The big thing to remember about beliefs, such as religious beliefs, is that they are programming our brains.

The reason preachers repeat the same things over and over is to reinforce such programming.

This is why there are no simple fixes to our governmental problems.

We are facing deep programming into myths, and teachings designed to manipulate groups.

+100

140
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  May 8, 2018 • 4:43:41pm

re: #3 Eclectic Cyborg

Nothing is a bridge too far for todays GOP.

With these spineless assholes, Trump is bulletproof.

He actually killed a guy on Park Avenue, and the base goes right on yapping about Benghazi, Harvey Weinstein (who never held public office) and the infamous e-mails.

141
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:44:36pm

re: #140 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

He actually killed a guy on Park Avenue, and the base goes right on yapping about Benghazi, Harvey Weinstein (who never held public office) and the infamous e-mails.

And so does the Neu Volkischer Beobachter, I mean the New York Times.

142
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 4:44:49pm

re: #136 Brian J.

That is indeed the case, although again with few precincts reporting. It’s Cordray 73, Kucinich 17.

Ha. There were also some after-Berners who were touting Schiavoni over Cordray—he’s currently at <9%.

143
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:44:53pm

re: #138 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Truly remarkable that these companies knew to make big payments into a totally unknown LLC operated by Trump aide who had no position inside the WH and no formal role on the campaign.

+ 101

144
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:45:34pm

re: #110 Brian J.

Perot’s vote would have split more or less evenly in 1992, and Feinstein still got more votes than Mike Huffington (who’d have likely likely switched parties, judging from his and his wife’s public statements.) You’re right about the statewide offices, my mistake, but most of those wins were with incumbents and couldn’t be held without them.

Prop 187 was a watershed moment. In 1992, party registration was 47/40/10 D/R/I. By 1997 it was 46/36/12. This year it’s 44/25.4/25. A lot of people abandoned the GOP after that, but it took a while for it to happen. They didn’t hit the 30% mark until 2010.

145
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 4:46:23pm

re: #142 BeachDem

Ha. There were also some after-Berners who were touting Schiavoni over Cordray—he’s currently at <9%.

Annnd, as I was typing that, Schiavoni just went ahead of Kucinich.

146
dangerman  May 8, 2018 • 4:46:46pm

re: #140 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

He actually killed a guy on Park Avenue, and the base goes right on yapping about Benghazi, Harvey Weinstein (who never held public office) and the infamous e-mails.

dude - it was Fifth Avenue. that was the [sic] irony of it all

147
freetoken  May 8, 2018 • 4:47:15pm

re: #144 KGxvi

Prop 187 was a watershed moment. In 1992, party registration was 47/40/10 D/R/I. By 1997 it was 46/36/12. This year it’s 44/25.4/25. A lot of people abandoned the GOP after that, but it took a while for it to happen. They didn’t hit the 30% mark until 2010.

Note, though, the resistance to identify as a “D”. The growth has all been in the “I” category.

I do not know what this means for the long run.

But I do know that the Democratic party needs to better define its goals and beliefs.

148
Skip Intro  May 8, 2018 • 4:47:31pm

re: #138 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Does someone publish a “Who To Bribe, 201? Edition” for corporations?

149
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:48:11pm

re: #142 BeachDem

Ha. There were also some after-Berners who were touting Schiavoni over Cordray—he’s currently at <9%.

Schiavone briefly passed Kucinich for second. Both are at about 15% right now. To be fair, though, Cuyahoga’s early vote isn’t in yet, but even in other NE Ohio counties, Dennis is no higher than the low 20s.

150
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:48:24pm
151
HappyWarrior  May 8, 2018 • 4:48:57pm

To think I was once a Kucinich fan smdh at myself circa 15 years ago.

152
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:49:05pm
153
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:49:49pm

re: #147 freetoken

Note, though, the resistance to identify as a “D”. The growth has all been in the “I” category.

I do not know what this means for the long run.

But I do know that the Democratic party needs to better define its goals and beliefs.

It doesn’t mean a whole lot in California. We have a blanket primary now and the Democrats have allowed independents to vote in their primaries since the 90s (the Republicans still don’t). A lot of those independent voters are Democrats in all but name.

154
ObserverArt  May 8, 2018 • 4:49:52pm

re: #136 Brian J.

That is indeed the case, although again with few precincts reporting. It’s Cordray 73, Kucinich 17.

Cordray should do well in the Columbus metro area. He’s from Grove City and has been seen positively in local media his whole career.

Since Kucinich is well known in Cleveland and all of northeastern Ohio…I think those folks will turn against him. I believe many are just sick of him.

155
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 8, 2018 • 4:50:01pm
156
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:50:01pm

re: #150 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Like this Administration cares. Bunch latte-drinking hippies.

157
Brian J.  May 8, 2018 • 4:51:05pm

Cuyahoga just reported its early votes, causing Kucinich’s numbers to jump, but even there he’s losing to Cordray 57-35.

158
Blind Frog Belly White  May 8, 2018 • 4:51:19pm

re: #132 freetoken

Totally forgot about him.

He was highly forgettable.

159
Blind Frog Belly White  May 8, 2018 • 4:51:58pm

re: #132 freetoken

Totally forgot about him.

Just another caretaker governor in between Jerry Brown’s terms.
///

160
Targetpractice  May 8, 2018 • 4:51:59pm

re: #150 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

That laughing you just heard from the direction of Europe was Airbus drinking Boeing’s milkshake.

161
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  May 8, 2018 • 4:52:51pm

re: #136 Brian J.

That is indeed the case, although again with few precincts reporting. It’s Cordray 73, Kucinich 17.

Kookoo-niche is closing the gap! Cordray 64, Kucinich 15, others 21

162
KGxvi  May 8, 2018 • 4:52:57pm

re: #150 Backwoods_Sleuth

WE’RE BRINGING BACK MANUFACTURING JOBS!!1! REAL AMERICAN COMPANIES WILL BUY THOSE PLANES!11! FAKE NEWS! SAD!

163
Charmingly Persistent  May 8, 2018 • 4:56:19pm

re: #109 BeachDem

Thank you so much! Great thoughts.

Here one group that is non-partisan yet mostly aligns with Dems is the League of Women Voters. And voting issues would be a fairly nonconfrontational way to assess independants.

And here it’s fracking rather than offshore drilling - another possible issue.

164
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 4:59:42pm

re: #154 ObserverArt

Cordray should do well in the Columbus metro area. He’s from Grove City and has been seen positively in local media his whole career.

Since Kucinich is well known in Cleveland and all of northeastern Ohio…I think those folks will turn against him. I believe many are just sick of him.

WaPo’s county breakdown shows Cordray leading everywhere but Trumbull and Mahoning, where Schiavone leads—yeah, it’s really early, but I like the map (heh)

washingtonpost.com

165
gocart mozart  May 8, 2018 • 5:05:53pm
166
Jack Burton  May 8, 2018 • 5:06:16pm

re: #153 KGxvi

It doesn’t mean a whole lot in California. We have a blanket primary now and the Democrats have allowed independents to vote in their primaries since the 90s (the Republicans still don’t). A lot of those independent voters are Democrats in all but name.

A *lot* of those independent voters are BernieBros and many are nihilist, burn it all down, both-sider, MBF assholes.

167
HappyWarrior  May 8, 2018 • 5:07:12pm

re: #166 Jack Burton

A *lot* of those independent voters are BernieBros and many are nihilist, burn it all down, both-sider, MBF assholes.

A lot of BB types are the same people who bought Ron Paul’s nonsense in 08/12. Not all but a good amount are. It’s at least the same mindset.

168
BeachDem  May 8, 2018 • 5:08:10pm

re: #163 Charmingly Persistent

Thank you so much! Great thoughts.

Here one group that is non-partisan yet mostly aligns with Dems is the League of Women Voters. And voting issues would be a fairly nonconfrontational way to assess independants.

And here it’s fracking rather than offshore drilling - another possible issue.

Find some active Dems who are League members (the LWV has to be really careful about being non-partisan). Here, many of our avid Dem voter registration peeps are League members. They’ll know where/which events to go strong for registration and which to forsake as strongly Republican.

169
Jack Burton  May 8, 2018 • 5:09:34pm

re: #167 HappyWarrior

A lot of BB types are the same people who bought Ron Paul’s nonsense in 08/12. Not all but a good amount are. It’s at least the same mindset.

In other words, people who had paid attention to politics for about 5 minutes and heard “end the war(s) & legalize it!” and said to themselves ‘That’s my hero’ without looking into anything else about him or using any critical thinking at all.

170
Bubblehead II  May 8, 2018 • 5:51:36pm

Night Lizards. Time for a warm bath and rock to crawl under. See you in the A.M.


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