The Bob Cesca Show: I Can’t Take This Anymore

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Today’s program from our podcasting affiliate, The Bob Cesca Show:

I Can’t Take This Anymore — NSFW; Jody Hamilton from the Stephanie Miller Show is here; Collusion everywhere; Senate Judiciary Committee says Putin used the NRA to collude with Trump; Senate Intelligence Committee says Russia interfered to help Trump; Rudy is lying about indicting the president; Cohen files missing from FinCen database; Michael Cohen can’t take this anymore; Crossfire Hurricane; Trump Organization lawyer coordinated with Russians on messaging; Cohen Me, Cohen You; and so much more.

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189 comments
1
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 10:56:39am

I realize I’m on a tear today, but I think this is important: we are dealing with people who will create counterfeits because they feel their counterfeit describes reality. They create the fiction because they already believe that any story they invent has the quality of Truth, by virtue of how it rewards their existing feelings and reinforces their existing assumptions.

2
Teukka  May 18, 2018 • 10:58:56am

re: #1 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

I realize I’m on a tear today, but I think this is important: we are dealing with people who will create counterfeits because they feel their counterfeit describes reality. They create the fiction because they already believe the fiction.

They believe in their version of reality so deeply that they have no blocks to faking evidence, because they’re that sure it won’t matter because that’s how things really are.

3
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 10:59:13am

So, it looks officially to be 10 deaths. 9 students and 1 teacher.

All they were doing was going to school to learn and teach.

And the lesson learned?

4
makeitstop  May 18, 2018 • 11:01:28am

Have they even ID’d the shooter yet?

I’m not following too closely, I’m actually doing some work today. Or trying, at least.

5
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:01:38am
6
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:01:58am

re: #1 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

I realize I’m on a tear today, but I think this is important: we are dealing with people who will create counterfeits because they feel their counterfeit describes reality. They create the fiction because they already believe that any story they invent has the quality of Truth, by virtue of how it rewards their existing feelings and reinforces their existing assumptions.

Yep.

7
electrotek  May 18, 2018 • 11:02:03am

re: #4 makeitstop

Have they even ID’d the shooter yet?

I’m not following too closely, I’m actually doing some work today. Or trying, at least.

Yeah, a half-Greek/half-Latino 17 year old kid who did it.

8
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:03:57am

Stranded on the last thread:

re: #611 Dr Lizardo

Aaaannnd……reported again.

Any putative benefit of Facebook (I can contact my family and share photos, catch up with old friends, &c) is belied by the fact it is being used to tear apart our country.

Yet Facebook users who find benefit from it will defend it as fiercely as gun nuts defend arsenals.

Both are poison.

9
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:05:23am

re: #5 JordanRules

Pro-business president, I see. //

10
makeitstop  May 18, 2018 • 11:06:21am

re: #7 electrotek

Yeah, a half-Greek/half-Latino 17 year old kid who did it.

Which half are they going to deport?
/

11
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:07:27am

re: #5 JordanRules

It’s self-dealing all the way down.

12
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:07:42am
13
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:07:50am

re: #2 Teukka

Repeating a lie until you can make it true.

14
Ace Rothstein  May 18, 2018 • 11:07:59am

re: #10 makeitstop

Which half are they going to deport?
/

The Latino half, duh.

15
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 18, 2018 • 11:08:10am
16
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:09:22am

re: #13 The Ghost of a Flea

Repeating a lie until you can make it true.

Yep I’ve seen this on social media far too often. The issue imo isn’t the platform in itself but people abusing it for their own agendas.

17
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:09:34am

This is a bad day.

18
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:09:40am

re: #1 The Ghost of a Flea

I realize I’m on a tear today, but I think this is important: we are dealing with people who will create counterfeits because they feel their counterfeit describes reality. They create the fiction because they already believe that any story they invent has the quality of Truth, by virtue of how it rewards their existing feelings and reinforces their existing assumptions.

Simpler. The ends justify the means.

The conservative liar on Facebook knows he’s lying, just as the religious apologist does so on behalf of faith.

They do it because their cause is just. It must be upheld against heathens and barbarians (those who don’t accept assertions on faith.)

Martin Luther said in justifying Christianity

“What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church…a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.” in a letter in Max Lenz, ed., Briefwechsel Landgraf Phillips des Grossmuthigen von Hessen mit Bucer, vol. 1.

How is conservatism any different?

19
BigPapa  May 18, 2018 • 11:10:30am

re: #17 jaunte

This is a bad day.

I was just thinking the same thing. We haven’t even got to the Friday News Dump yet, which I got a feeling will be a doozy.

20
petesh  May 18, 2018 • 11:10:52am

re: #9 Belafon

Pro-business president, I see. //

Just following his own business plan — if a contract’s not working out, ignore it.

No, I am not adding a sarcastic tag to that!

21
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:11:57am

re: #1 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

I realize I’m on a tear today, but I think this is important: we are dealing with people who will create counterfeits because they feel their counterfeit describes reality. They create the fiction because they already believe that any story they invent has the quality of Truth, by virtue of how it rewards their existing feelings and reinforces their existing assumptions.

This could well have just started out as a sick, malicious joke on the part of some sociopath who just wants to get a good laugh at how people will react to it

but our climate of discourse is to corrupted that it will gain legs

22
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:12:53am

re: #12 jaunte

I think it’s time we take some more cues from the Parkland Kids and stop accepting that people will just move one. Keep making a bunch of noise. This is bad for business since Trump is trying to dictate how they operate. It’s bad for consumers since the prices would flow to them. And it’s bad because the president is trying to punish those who speak out against him.

23
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:13:00am

re: #21 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

This could well have just started out as a sick, malicious joke on the part of some sociopath who just wants to get a good laugh at how people will react to it

but our climate of discourse is to corrupted that it will gain legs

It’s a bogus profile. Far worse than a stupid joke.

24
Big Beautiful Door  May 18, 2018 • 11:13:00am

re: #7 electrotek

Yeah, a half-Greek/half-Latino 17 year old kid who did it.

The Right is going to jump all over that BUILD DUH WALL!!!!1!1

25
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 11:13:13am

re: #4 makeitstop

Have they even ID’d the shooter yet?

I’m not following too closely, I’m actually doing some work today. Or trying, at least.

Yes. Info at end of last thread.

I should be working…but…

26
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:13:32am
27
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:13:54am

Trump is going to double down on the animals remark isn’t he?

28
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:14:18am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

It’s a bogus profile. Far worse than a stupid joke.

I was just saying that it could have been some asshole’s idea of a sick, malicious joke, not just stupid

remember, there are people who are so hardened that stuff like this is all a big joke to them, they enjoy watching people get killed and then argue about it

29
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:14:20am

re: #21 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

This could well have just started out as a sick, malicious joke on the part of some sociopath who just wants to get a good laugh at how people will react to it

but our climate of discourse is to corrupted that it will gain legs

If allowed to stand, it’s a lie that will make it around the world.

30
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:14:51am

re: #26 jaunte

They need to be tracking and reporting the source.

31
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:14:57am

re: #28 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I was just saying that it could have been some asshole’s idea of a sick, malicious joke, not just stupid

remember, there are people who are so hardened that stuff like this is all a big joke to them, they enjoy watching people get killed and then argue about it

Ah ok true enough.

32
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:14:57am

re: #29 Belafon

If allowed to stand, it’s a lie that will make it around the world.

before the truth can pull its pants up

33
Big Beautiful Door  May 18, 2018 • 11:15:22am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Trump is going to double down on the animals remark isn’t he?

Somewhere, someone is claiming the kid is a MS-13 gang member and a Dreamer.

34
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:15:58am

re: #29 Belafon

If allowed to stand, it’s a lie that will make it around the world.

Yep it’s frustrating because social media definitely has its positive uses but it has a lot of negative ones as well.

35
Dr Lizardo  May 18, 2018 • 11:16:03am

re: #26 jaunte

Reported to FB.

Bring it motherfuckers. I can do this all day long.

36
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:16:31am

re: #33 Big Beautiful Door

Somewhere, someone is claiming the kid is a MS-13 gang member and a Dreamer.

I wouldn’t doubt it for a second.

37
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 18, 2018 • 11:16:42am

re: #29 Belafon

If allowed to stand, it’s a lie that will make it around the world.

It will anyway. Once one wingnut has seen it, he’ll tell everybody, then it’s gospel. Just like FAUX Noise putting a (D) next to the name of any GOPper involved in a scandal.

38
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 11:17:00am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Trump is going to double down on the animals remark isn’t he?

The real animal is in the White House.

39
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:17:21am

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Yep it’s frustrating because social media the internet, television, print, phones, etc., definitely has its positive uses but it has a lot of negative ones as well.

If it’s useful in any way, someone will find an evil use for it.

40
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:17:52am

I like FB more than most but something’s gotta give. The thing is though. FB goes. Something else just will emerge. That’s why my issue isn’t with platforms but how they’re abused.

41
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:17:53am

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Yep it’s frustrating because social media definitely has its positive uses but it has a lot of negative ones as well.

The positive ones can be achieved by other means (telephone, mail service). The negative ones are being used to tear apart society.

There isn’t a magic balance fairy here. The social good does not balance out the social bad.

42
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:18:14am

Some screenshots from what appears to be the shooters now-deleted social media accounts in this thread…

43
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:18:39am

re: #18 Anymouse 🌹

It’s Harry Frankfurter’s concept of bullshit as something separate from a lie— but the bullshitter is bullshitting themselves.

While they’ll frame thing is ends/means terms, there’s really no fixed end, and no fixed sense of what is just.

44
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:18:51am

re: #39 Belafon

If it’s useful in any way, someone will find an evil use for it.

Absolutely. FDR’s fireside chats that ralied the nation and the use of radio by Nazi propaganda.

45
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:19:00am

re: #37 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

It will anyway. Once one wingnut has seen it, he’ll tell everybody, then it’s gospel. Just like FAUX Noise putting a (D) next to the name of any GOPper involved in a scandal.

I think there are a few ways to finally beat this:
1. Keep the focus on the dead and survivors.
2. Help Facebook keep fake ones from being up too long.
3. Have lots of people put out that fake accounts are trying to be made.

46
Sir John Barron  May 18, 2018 • 11:19:41am

re: #5 JordanRules

This is fine.

////

47
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:20:44am

re: #41 Anymouse 🌹

The positive ones can be achieved by other means (telephone, mail service). The negative ones are being used to tear apart society.

There isn’t a magic balance fairy here. The social good does not balance out the social bad.

Many marginalized groups would disagree. I’ve posted links a bunch of times with research and anecdotes about this.

People do not only use social media for politics. We just do that here. It’s not even close to the totality of it. Regulate it.

48
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:21:04am

re: #41 Anymouse 🌹

The positive ones can be achieved by other means (telephone, mail service). The negative ones are being used to tear apart society.

There isn’t a magic balance fairy here. The social good does not balance out the social bad.

No offense but you’re wrong. And that’s not a MBF. It’s an observation of technology. Are cameras evil because child molesters use them as well as people who use them for good? I get it. You have a problem with modern social media but as someone who uses it for many uses, I think you’re being way too myopic.

49
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:21:12am

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Yep it’s frustrating because social media definitely has its positive uses but it has a lot of negative ones as well.

I say it again, social media are great for news about friends and family and kids and food and dogs and local gigs and events…but not as a source for information about politics or current events.

we are too stoopid to register that but the russians are certainly not so stupid as to pass up a chance to use it manipulate us.

50
makeitstop  May 18, 2018 • 11:21:49am

re: #42 JordanRules

Some screenshots from what appears to be the shooters now-deleted social media accounts in this thread…

[Embedded content]

Black duster, black backwards ball cap…

Didn’t the Columbine shooters wear those? Didn’t they call themselves the ‘Trench Coat Mafia’ or something?

51
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:22:23am

re: #41 Anymouse 🌹

The positive ones can be achieved by other means (telephone, mail service). The negative ones are being used to tear apart society.

There isn’t a magic balance fairy here. The social good does not balance out the social bad.

Facebook is only one part. If it went away, there would still be infowars, RedState, and all those other hate sites. There are already existing social media sites just waiting for people to move to. And, unless you are willing to pay a company so they can hire enough people to look at everything you post, and constantly train them to find inappropriate material, it will get through.

52
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:23:09am
53
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:23:21am

re: #47 JordanRules

Many marginalized groups would disagree. I’ve posted links a bunch of times with research and anecdotes about this.

People do not only use social media for politics. We just do that here. It’s not even close to the totality of it. Regulate it.

There is no way the libertarian dudebros who run Facebook and Twitter will allow regulation if they can buy politicians.

Look how hard Facebook fights any state which wants to write a law allowing family members to close the accounts of deceased family.

They will not be regulated because capitalism abhors regulation. The only thing capitalism understands is “I will go elsewhere with my money and time.”

54
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:23:33am

re: #49 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I say it again, social media are great for news about friends and family and kids and food and dogs and local gigs and events…but not as a source for information about politics or current events.

we are too stoopid to register that but the russians are certainly not so stupid as to pass up a chance to use it manipulate us.

You mean that local Klan event? //

55
Dr Lizardo  May 18, 2018 • 11:24:14am

re: #50 makeitstop

If indeed explosives have been found at the school, he may have been trying to replicate the original Harris/Klebold plan, which was to blow up CHS and pick off the survivors.

56
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:24:22am

re: #53 Anymouse 🌹

There is no way the libertarian dudebros who run Facebook and Twitter will allow regulation if they can buy politicians.

Look how hard Facebook fights any state which wants to write a law allowing family members to close the accounts of deceased family.

They will not be regulated because capitalism abhors regulation. The only thing capitalism understands is “I will go elsewhere with my money and time.”

That problem is not new or unique to the tech industry.

57
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:24:31am

re: #50 makeitstop

Black duster, black backwards ball cap…

Didn’t the Columbine shooters wear those? Didn’t they call themselves the ‘Trench Coat Mafia’ or something?

Yes they did.

58
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:24:52am

re: #51 Belafon

Facebook is only one part. If it went away, there would still be infowars, RedState, and all those other hate sites. There are already existing social media sites just waiting for people to move to. And, unless you are willing to pay a company so they can hire enough people to look at everything you post, and constantly train them to find inappropriate material, it will get through.

I recall my girlfriend showing me an article from her FB feed “Great Barrier Reef Declared Dead” and noted that even a cursory reading of the article showed that was not the case at all.

I felt compelled to remind her not to trust any goddamn article that did not come from a reliable news source and preferably supported by other independent and reliable sources.

59
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:25:16am

re: #47 JordanRules

Many marginalized groups would disagree. I’ve posted links a bunch of times with research and anecdotes about this.

People do not only use social media for politics. We just do that here. It’s not even close to the totality of it. Regulate it.

I didn’t even post anything politics on social media until two years ago. It’s a quick and yes efficient way to get in touch with people. When my grandmother’s nephew died, we had no way of finding her grand niece to offer condolences about her father. Sorry AM, the issue isn’t the tech in itself, it’s how it’s used. Yes regulations by all means but wherever people will communicate, people will be jerks. Hate mail still happens with letters. Nasty phone calls still happen with the telephone. Why is FB any different? I don’t deny Zuckerberg is a jackass.

60
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 11:26:04am

re: #50 makeitstop

Black duster, black backwards ball cap…

Didn’t the Columbine shooters wear those? Didn’t they call themselves the ‘Trench Coat Mafia’ or something?

And I heard someone that knows him say he wore the trench coat every day no matter the weather/heat, etc.

Soon it will come out everyone knew he could be the one.

61
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:26:29am
62
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:26:48am

re: #50 makeitstop

Black duster, black backwards ball cap…

Didn’t the Columbine shooters wear those? Didn’t they call themselves the ‘Trench Coat Mafia’ or something?

I used to wear an old army trenchcoat with brass buttons that I added in high school, would never think of owning or carrying a weapon except in my usual high school fantasies (which usually involved pointing a 75-mm howitzer at the school building)

63
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:27:07am

We need a better education system in this country. Or we will continue to lose in the disinfo wars.

64
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:27:51am

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I didn’t even post anything politics on social media until two years ago. It’s a quick and yes efficient way to get in touch with people. When my grandmother’s nephew died, we had no way of finding her grand niece to offer condolences about her father. Sorry AM, the issue isn’t the tech in itself, it’s how it’s used. Yes regulations by all means but wherever people will communicate, people will be jerks. Hate mail still happens with letters. Nasty phone calls still happen with the telephone. Why is FB any different? I don’t deny Zuckerberg is a jackass.

Of course hate mail and hate telephone calls happen. They are both regulated though, and really, how many millions of people in a second can you reach with a letter or call?

Social media is the semi-automatic weapon of the Mimeograph machine.

65
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:28:50am
66
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:29:45am

re: #43 The Ghost of a Flea

Short version…we’re dealing with nihilism wearing the preserved skin of ideology.

Really there’s only a superordinate end—total license for themselves, total deference for others. Ends/means argumentation doesn’t describe it because for them, there are no unacceptable means, therefore no reason to invoke utilitarian, consequentialist arguments about what are acceptable means.

Even as they set hard boundaries, it’s understood that they will violate them, because the distinction—they get to dictate both what is Right (moral) and right (correct), and except themselves, and punish others.

Basically, it’s Kurtz in the Congo. Or the Chateau d’Ife.

67
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:30:24am

re: #56 JordanRules

That problem is not new or unique to the tech industry.

Exactly my point. Newspapers have long been used to spread malice. Does it mean the newspaper is a sinister invention? I’ve used modern social media my whole life. It is people who abuse it and make it better. Acting like just letters and phone calls is tbh a really simple way of looking at things. It also helps marginalized groups. AM, ask BLM and other groups what they think about SM as a way of organizing people from coast to coast.

68
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:31:07am

re: #66 The Ghost of a Flea

Short version…we’re dealing with nihilism wearing the preserved skin of ideology.

Really there’s only a superordinate end—total license for themselves, total deference for others. Ends/means argumentation doesn’t describe it because for them, there are no unacceptable means, therefore no reason to invoke utilitarian, consequentialist arguments about what are acceptable means.

Even as they set hard boundaries, it’s understood that they will violate them, because the distinction—they get to dictate both what is Right (moral) and right (correct), and except themselves, and punish others.

Basically, it’s Kurtz in the Congo. Or the Chateau d’Ife.

Shorter: It’s a religion.

69
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:31:29am

re: #66 The Ghost of a Flea

“If the President does it, it’s legal.”

70
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:31:47am

re: #50 makeitstop

The “trenchcoat Mafia” thing was one of the smaller moral panics around Columbine. There were a group of kids that dressed that way all the time, but they weren’t Kleebold or Harris. Those two only wore large concealing coats the day of the shooting.

71
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:31:53am

“If I do it, it’s right.”

72
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:32:16am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Exactly my point. Newspapers have long been used to spread malice. Does it mean the newspaper is a sinister invention?

Newspapers cost money to print and only move as fast as a delivery truck.

Modern electronic social media can spread evil at minimal expense at the blink of an eye.

that has changed and magnified the potential for spreading evil

73
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:32:41am

re: #64 Anymouse 🌹

Of course hate mail and hate telephone calls happen. They are both regulated though, and really, how many millions of people in a second can you reach with a letter or call?

Social media is the semi-automatic weapon of the Mimeograph machine.

And you’re acting as if regulations are impossible. Yes, you can reach millions within seconds. I’m arguing that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

74
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:32:50am
75
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:32:56am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Exactly my point. Newspapers have long been used to spread malice. Does it mean the newspaper is a sinister invention? I’ve used modern social media my whole life. It is people who abuse it and make it better. Acting like just letters and phone calls is tbh a really simple way of looking at things. It also helps marginalized groups. AM, ask BLM and other groups what they think about SM as a way of organizing people from coast to coast.

There is that.

On the other hand, it’s not like no one ever organised protests before the invention of Facebook.

Newspapers indeed have been used to spread hatred. Newspapers are also regulated, in that they can be sued for libel.

Now, sue Facebook for libel.

76
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:33:24am

re: #72 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Newspapers cost money to print and only move as fast as a delivery truck.

Modern electronic social media can spread evil at minimal expense at the blink of an eye.

that has changed and magnified the potential for spreading evil

Okay radio and TV?

77
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:34:14am

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Okay radio and TV?

even radio and TV cost money to produce and broadcast, and require a license

not directly comparable to what the Internet has made possible

78
makeitstop  May 18, 2018 • 11:34:34am

re: #62 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I used to wear an old army trenchcoat with brass buttons that I added in high school, would never think of owning or carrying a weapon except in my usual high school fantasies (which usually involved pointing a 75-mm howitzer at the school building)

I’ve got a black duster that looks a lot like the one in those photos. Strictly winter wear, though - it’s got a removable wool lining that’s great for cold weather. Waterproof, too.

79
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:34:36am

re: #75 Anymouse 🌹

There is that.

On the other hand, it’s not like no one ever organised protests before the invention of Facebook.

Newspapers indeed have been used to spread hatred. Newspapers are also regulated, in that they can be sued for libel.

Now, sue Facebook for libel.

nailed it

80
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:34:46am

re: #75 Anymouse 🌹

There is that.

On the other hand, it’s not like no one ever organised protests before the invention of Facebook.

Newspapers indeed have been used to spread hatred. Newspapers are also regulated, in that they can be sued for libel.

Now, sue Facebook for libel.

I’m not suggesting no regulations are necessary. Quite the opposite but you’re letting your prejudices against social media get in the way ironically enough while you post on a platform with people across the globe.

81
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:34:53am

re: #75 Anymouse 🌹

There is that.

On the other hand, it’s not like no one ever organised protests before the invention of Facebook.

Newspapers indeed have been used to spread hatred. Newspapers are also regulated, in that they can be sued for libel.

Now, sue Facebook for libel.

More regulation is needed. It didn’t come right away for a lot of new technology.

82
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:35:11am

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Okay radio and TV?

Radio and TV in the USA were regulated (Fairness Doctrine) until Ronald Reagan’s administration change that, specifically to weaponise them for conservative religious faith.

83
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:35:21am

re: #79 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

nailed it

When did we get seatbelts?

84
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:35:22am

re: #68 Anymouse 🌹

Still no.

I mean, I’m an atheist too, but that’s setting the aperture too broad on what “religion” is, but too narrow too encompass all the versions of human fuckery that are about justify libertinism by making an us/them distinction.

Colonialism was evil fuckery that made up new rules and ditched its own stated principles in real time, and involved a constant story-told-to-oneself about its morality (Rightness) and efficacy (rightness) that was not religious.

85
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:35:32am

re: #77 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

even radio and TV cost money to produce and broadcast, and require a license

not directly comparable to what the Internet has made possible

I guess my point is. Hateful people will always find a way. Let’s regulate this.

86
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:37:02am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

I guess my point is. Hateful people will always find a way. Let’s regulate this.

We need to educate people on how to view and use the media. I think that is really missing in our education system, that and civics: how government works from local to state to national/international level.

87
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 11:37:30am

re: #74 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

That’s a damn bribe, not a settlement.

Michigan State continues to show their ass. I feel for the students there, but that school may need a total year off and a completely new administration installed.

And , the new administration and board all need to be chosen on merit by an outside body. No way any Michigan Republican politician should have any say. They may be behind the current problems and they sure have added other issues in the state.

88
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:38:01am

re: #80 HappyWarrior

I’m not suggesting no regulations are necessary. Quite the opposite but you’re letting your prejudices against social media get in the way ironically enough while you post on a platform with people across the globe.

I am not prejudiced against social media.

Our esteemed host Mr. Johnson runs a social media site. He regulates it.

I am prejudiced against libertarian and conservative religion (unregulated free markets).

89
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:38:59am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We need to educate people on how to view and use the media. I think that is really missing in our education system, that and civics: how government works from local to state to national/international level.

I won’t argue with that. I just hope you and AM are aware of the irony of both of you complaining about quick takes on the world around us while you are doing just that. That’s the modern world. Does it need regulated? Absolutely? But I don’t think the blame is on the tech itself. As I said, regulate this. By all means but I really take issue comparing Facebook to a military type weapon that is used to kill dozens within minutes.

90
Dr Lizardo  May 18, 2018 • 11:39:28am

re: #86 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

We need to educate people on how to view and use the media. I think that is really missing in our education system, that and civics: how government works from local to state to national/international level.

I was in high school in the mid 1980s; we learned civics - both Washington State civics (10th grade), national civics (11th grade) and international civics (12th grade).

Pretty damn comprehensive, I’ll tell you that. This was in Southwest Washington.

91
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 11:40:01am

re: #84 The Ghost of a Flea

Religion, with its recourse to an ineffable, un-contradictable first cause, is the easiest social system to hack for the purposes of de Sadian ends, and the best for getting a big herd to prey on…

…but the most common variant is the evil shit that hides under the justification of “family.”

So you’re not wrong, but I’m specifically trying to make a point that it’s not about one ideological armature, it’s about the way the underlying materials of complex explanatory structures can be manipulated because concepts are perfectly plastic.

92
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 18, 2018 • 11:40:05am
93
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:40:36am

re: #88 Anymouse 🌹

You definitely are prejudiced against social media. You’ve not used a Facebook account yet you compared millions of your fellow humans like me who use it to people who go in shooting people. That’s prejudice. You refuse to see any benefit to FB because you only want to see the negatives. FB needs regulated. Platforms like it don’t need to be eliminated.

94
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:40:46am

re: #87 ObserverArt

That’s a damn bribe, not a settlement.

Michigan State continues to show their ass. I feel for the students there, but that school may need a total year off and a completely new administration installed.

And , the new administration and board all need to be chosen on merit by an outside body. No way any Michigan Republican politician should have any say. They may be behind the current problems and they sure have added other issues in the state.

I am appalled. I agree, MSU needs to start all over.

95
GlutenFreeJesus  May 18, 2018 • 11:40:48am

Oh boy. Another one of these morons.

96
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 18, 2018 • 11:41:29am
97
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:41:53am

re: #95 GlutenFreeJesus

Oh boy. Another one of these morons.

[Embedded content]

Mental illness is a cop out because “normal people” don’t want to admit that people with sound minds can and do carry out murders. I get why we do that. I just wish we would stop doing it.

98
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:42:19am

Like the traditional media didn’t just lie us into a war. Tuh.

Old media is so top down too. It rewards the powerful and status quo.

99
DodgerFan1988  May 18, 2018 • 11:42:33am

What a maggot.

100
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:44:50am

re: #98 JordanRules

Like the traditional media didn’t just lie us into a war. Tuh.

Old media is so top down too. It rewards the powerful and status quo.

Or traditional media wasn’t used to stir up hatred against the Jews in Nazi Germany. And yes I get that media is more widespread than it was years ago but you know what, that’s modernity. Here the bunch of us are on a platform that can reach millions or even billions of people in an instance. Times are what they are. I’m for regulating SM and I definitely want something done about bogus profiles or people who use their accounts to spread bs but the issue isn’t the platforms in themselves.

101
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:44:52am

re: #84 The Ghost of a Flea

Still no.

I mean, I’m an atheist too, but that’s setting the aperture too broad on what “religion” is, but too narrow too encompass all the versions of human fuckery that are about justify libertinism by making an us/them distinction.

Colonialism was evil fuckery that made up new rules and ditched its own stated principles in real time, and involved a constant story-told-to-oneself about its morality (Rightness) and efficacy (rightness) that was not religious.

So, just like religion. They do the same. (Southern Baptists suddenly getting involved in politics after a century of disdaining politics, and opposing abortion rights after strongly coming out in favour of Roe v Wade; Mormons suddenly getting a prophecy saying African-Americans could become bishops in 1974, &c.)

I maintain conservatism is a religion for the same reason I maintain churches represent religions for the reasons I stated above.

They have holy books they interpret as they need to, and cherry pick when they want (first half of Second Amendment is quoted no more often by conservatives than Isaiah 45:7 by Christians).

They have saints. They have icons. They excommunicate heretics. They view all other philosophies as evil.

If conservatism is not a religion, it sure acts like one.

John McCain, lifelong conservative, is now a heretic because he dared question the leader of their faith Republican party. He’s now a traitor, a turncoat, hell, he’s practically a XXi Century Judas for betraying Trump.

I’m just being pragmatic: If it quacks like a religion, and walks like a religion, it’s a religion.

102
Charles Johnson  May 18, 2018 • 11:45:35am
103
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:45:36am
104
gocart mozart  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:15am

The Crouches, evangelical scum.

105
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:15am

re: #93 HappyWarrior

You definitely are prejudiced against social media. You’ve not used a Facebook account yet you compared millions of your fellow humans like me who use it to people who go in shooting people. That’s prejudice. You refuse to see any benefit to FB because you only want to see the negatives. FB needs regulated. Platforms like it don’t need to be eliminated.

Even if it’s regulated, I have no confidence in any algorithms that might effect that regulation. On YouTube, view a few channels debunking Moon Hoaxers/Flat Earthers/Fueltards and your recommendations will fill up with Moon Hoax and Flat Earth and Fueltard channels. If they can’t tell one thing from its opposite, their algorithms are worthless.

106
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:26am
107
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:29am

re: #89 HappyWarrior

I won’t argue with that. I just hope you and AM are aware of the irony of both of you complaining about quick takes on the world around us while you are doing just that. That’s the modern world. Does it need regulated? Absolutely? But I don’t think the blame is on the tech itself. As I said, regulate this. By all means but I really take issue comparing Facebook to a military type weapon that is used to kill dozens within minutes.

I am posting on a blog for entertainment purposes, not claiming to be a news site.

108
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:37am

re: #72 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Newspapers cost money to print and only move as fast as a delivery truck.

Modern electronic social media can spread evil at minimal expense at the blink of an eye.

that has changed and magnified the potential for spreading evil

Given that there are over 7B people right now, though, compare the amount of evil now to the time before the internet.

Yes, the internet can connect people to do bad things. But it’s also allowed us to see much more than we could have, not only sharing knowledge, but to see these people when they do their acts, not later on. What would have happened to those two men at the Starbucks before the internet?

109
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:46:59am

re: #102 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What amuses me about this bogus profile is it shows how ignorant conservatives are about the left. Someone sporting an anarchist logo in their profile would never support HRC let alone wear a HRC hat and I don’t even think she sold those.

110
Big Beautiful Door  May 18, 2018 • 11:47:40am

re: #103 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

There you go. The solution is to send our kids to school in Afghanistan.///

111
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:48:44am

re: #105 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Even if it’s regulated, I have no confidence in any algorithms that might effect that regulation. On YouTube, view a few channels debunking Moon Hoaxers/Flat Earthers/Fueltards and your recommendations will fill up with Moon Hoax and Flat Earth and Fueltard channels. If they can’t tell one thing from its opposite, their algorithms are worthless.

That is true but I just wonder what a realistic solution is. Are we to ban people from sharing content on the internet? I just really worry about a slippery slope with hostility towards the platform itself rather than the people who abuse said platform. I guess maybe it’s like alcohol in this way.

112
Joe Bacon 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:48:57am

re: #104 gocart mozart

The Crouches, evangelical scum.

[Embedded content]

The same Paul Crouch who paid $400K+ in hush money to his gay lover. And fleeced a lot of money from my insane aunt…

latimes.com

113
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:49:10am

re: #108 Belafon

Given that there are over 7B people right now, though, compare the amount of evil now to the time before the internet.

Yes, the internet can connect people to do bad things. But it’s also allowed us to see much more than we could have, not only sharing knowledge, but to see these people when they do their acts, not later on. What would have happened to those two men at the Starbucks before the internet?

yes, note my working: it has magnified the potential

the potential for a lot of things

114
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:49:23am

Starting to think these end-timers are not willing members of a healthy society.

115
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:49:35am

re: #108 Belafon

Given that there are over 7B people right now, though, compare the amount of evil now to the time before the internet.

Yes, the internet can connect people to do bad things. But it’s also allowed us to see much more than we could have, not only sharing knowledge, but to see these people when they do their acts, not later on. What would have happened to those two men at the Starbucks before the internet?

Exactly. If not for the internet, the SB incident would have just been a he-said-she said affair. I totally agree that it can connect people to do bad things but you nailed it.

116
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:49:59am

re: #105 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Even if it’s regulated, I have no confidence in any algorithms that might effect that regulation. On YouTube, view a few channels debunking Moon Hoaxers/Flat Earthers/Fueltards and your recommendations will fill up with Moon Hoax and Flat Earth and Fueltard channels. If they can’t tell one thing from its opposite, their algorithms are worthless.

Maybe. Then we need to find better ways or let the rest of the world move on with technology without us. We probably need a whole generation being better educated with a focus on logic, media literacy, propaganda etc. But I don’t see how we just tap out.

117
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 11:50:00am

re: #75 Anymouse 🌹

There is that.

On the other hand, it’s not like no one ever organised protests before the invention of Facebook.

Newspapers indeed have been used to spread hatred. Newspapers are also regulated, in that they can be sued for libel.

Now, sue Facebook for libel.

I’m sure people were able to get their village together to protect the local powers-that-be before newspapers came around.

There were town criers.

Maybe we should go back to them.

And at the same time, how about we get rid of your Smart Car and get you in a buckboard with a horse?

(yes I am being snarky…but think about it…)

118
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:50:24am

re: #114 jaunte

Starting to think these end-timers are not willing members of a healthy society.

[Embedded content]

I gotta love how the religious right has embraced a man who once said “Women, you gotta treat them like shit.” I eagerly await the religious right’s embrace of convicted rapists as God’s messagers in the coming years.

119
BlueSpotinAL  May 18, 2018 • 11:51:34am

120
gocart mozart  May 18, 2018 • 11:51:50am
121
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:52:16am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I am posting on a blog for entertainment purposes, not claiming to be a news site.

And you get news here. You know how to assess a good or bad article. It doesn’t matter where the link came from.

122
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:52:28am

If Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey were anywhere near as responsible people as Charles Johnson has shown himself to be, Facebook and Twitter would be reasonably sane media. But their greed is fundamental, and irresponsible.

123
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:52:28am

re: #111 HappyWarrior

That is true but I just wonder what a realistic solution is. Are we to ban people from sharing content on the internet? I just really worry about a slippery slope with hostility towards the platform itself rather than the people who abuse said platform. I guess maybe it’s like alcohol in this way.

The answer ultimate falls to the rest of us. Don’t let them have equal footing with reasonable people. Call them out. Shame them. Win elections.

And realize that we’re not going to solve this today. It’s at least 2.5 years more work just to get control of the situation.

124
lawhawk  May 18, 2018 • 11:52:42am

re: #94 JordanRules

I am appalled. I agree, MSU needs to start all over.

I’ve been advocating the death penalty for any school’s athletic department that enables, condones, excuses, or otherwise engages in a coverup of sex abuse/harassment. I wanted Penn State’s AD ended after Paterno/Sandusky, and want MSU ended with Nassar and want Baylor’s AD ended after the scandal there as well.

In fact, that’s the one thing that will get permanent change, becuase the ADs are the “cash cows” that keep the alumni engaged and money coming into the schools.

They forfeit the right to have an AD thanks to the actions of the admin.

The $500 million sounds great until you realize it’s in exchange for giving up too much.

The school will be able to make back that money in a few years; the women harmed will never get back what they lost.

125
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:52:52am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I am posting on a blog for entertainment purposes, not claiming to be a news site.

You’re posting on a political news blog. Facebook for all my faults with it has never claimed to be a news site. People sharing news there is no different from me giving a CNN or MSNBC link here. Now what the original posts were about were regarding a bogus profile which is something that does need fixed but that’s not what you’re talking about.

126
BlueGrl21  May 18, 2018 • 11:53:46am

re: #97 HappyWarrior

Mental illness is a cop out because “normal people” don’t want to admit that people with sound minds can and do carry out murders. I get why we do that. I just wish we would stop doing it.

I’ve said this in the past…as a person who is bipolar and has been through psychosis and paranoia, when we’re in that state we can’t plan to drive to the store and buy a goldfish. We can’t plan a mass shooting over weeks and months. No way.

I am of the opinion that these shooters are predominantly psychopaths. Those are personality/empathy disorders, not mental illness. There is a solid difference.

The shooter had explosive devices ready, premade, and got into the school with 3 guns. He was not psychotic.

127
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:54:08am

re: #122 jaunte

If Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey were anywhere near as responsible people as Charles Johnson has shown himself to be, Facebook and Twitter would be reasonably sane media. But their greed is fundamental, and irresponsible.

So like the Wells Fargo guy, the Novartis guy, the AT&T guy…

128
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 18, 2018 • 11:54:44am

re: #121 JordanRules

And you get news here. You know how to assess a good or bad article. It doesn’t matter where the link came from.

This is where I get all my news. I really appreciate everybody here following this stuff so I don’t have to, because I just can’t any more. I went through Nixon and Reagan and Dubya, but I’m used up now….

129
Sir John Barron  May 18, 2018 • 11:55:05am

re: #118 HappyWarrior

I gotta love how the religious right has embraced a man who once said “Women, you gotta treat them like shit.” I eagerly await the religious right’s embrace of convicted rapists as God’s messagers in the coming years.

RWNJ 1998: Character is King
RWNJ 2018: Hey look over there, US Embassy moved to Jerusalem!

130
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:55:18am

re: #127 JordanRules

“What can we get away with for awhile” is a stupid life principle.

131
Dr Lizardo  May 18, 2018 • 11:55:30am

re: #126 BlueGrl21

Yeah, I gotta agree; these mass shooters aren’t mentally ill - they suffer from profound personality disorders.

132
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:55:31am

re: #122 jaunte

If Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey were anywhere near as responsible people as Charles Johnson has shown himself to be, Facebook and Twitter would be reasonably sane media. But their greed is fundamental, and irresponsible.

Now that I absolutely agree with. The shame of it honestly is that FB wasn’t always this way. Back when it was college kids only, it was a truly great way for college aged kids who may have been at different schools than their friends to stay in touch and see quickly how their friends were doing but then when it became open to all people over 13- not a bad thing in itself, it became a vehicle for everyone asshole with an opinion from here to Siberia to post political rambles.

133
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 11:55:58am

re: #126 BlueGrl21

I’ve said this in the past…as a person who is bipolar and has been through psychosis and paranoia, when we’re in that state we can’t plan to drive to the store and buy a goldfish. We can’t plan a mass shooting over weeks and months. No way.

I am of the opinion that these shooters are predominantly psychopaths. Those are personality/empathy disorders, not mental illness. There is a solid difference.

The shooter had explosive devices ready, premade, and got into the school with 3 guns. He was not psychotic.

As someone with anxiety disorder, I completely agree with that accessment.

134
Big Beautiful Door  May 18, 2018 • 11:56:19am

re: #122 jaunte

If Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey were anywhere near as responsible people as Charles Johnson has shown himself to be, Facebook and Twitter would be reasonably sane media. But their greed is fundamental, and irresponsible.

It is Greenspan’s pernicious theory that corporations have no duty to society except to maximize shareholder value by any means necessary.

135
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 11:57:36am

re: #134 Big Beautiful Door

If that’s the private sector rule, the public needs a huge regulatory system to keep it in check.

136
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 11:57:46am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Exactly. If not for the internet, the SB incident would have just been a he-said-she said affair. I totally agree that it can connect people to do bad things but you nailed it.

Except it wouldn’t be a he-said she-said.

Back in the days of Jim Crow, whites would be complicit in not saying anything.

Now, witnesses would have come forward even without the Internet.

And you don’t need an unregulated Internet for cell phones. One call to a news outlet and the video would have still gotten out.

The horror of the murder of Emmet Till was shown to the world by magazine photographers, not the Internet. The Kent State massacres were shown by photographers and journalists, not the Internet.

Social media is a wonderful way for people to connect we have not had until recently. In the name of profit, their owners are damn sure going to spend money on whatever politician they need to ensure they are not regulated like magazines or newspapers or telephone service.

137
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  May 18, 2018 • 11:57:47am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

You’re posting on a political news blog. Facebook for all my faults with it has never claimed to be a news site. People sharing news there is no different from me giving a CNN or MSNBC link here. Now what the original posts were about were regarding a bogus profile which is something that does need fixed but that’s not what you’re talking about.

My posts belong entirely to the “op/ed” section

I know that FB is not a news site, but the fact that people use it as a source of news is one of the things that makes us easy to manipulate

138
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 11:58:09am

re: #128 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

This is where I get all my news. I really appreciate everybody here following this stuff so I don’t have to, because I just can’t any more. I went through Nixon and Reagan and Dubya, but I’m used up now….

This site is an amazing aggregator!! I appreciate it so much and learn a ton here.

139
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 11:59:14am

re: #136 Anymouse 🌹

Except it wouldn’t be a he-said she-said.

Back in the days of Jim Crow, whites would be complicit in not saying anything.

Now, witnesses would have come forward even without the Internet.

And you don’t need an unregulated Internet for cell phones. One call to a news outlet and the video would have still gotten out.

The horror of the murder of Emmet Till was shown to the world by magazine photographers, not the Internet. The Kent State massacres were shown by photographers and journalists, not the Internet.

Social media is a wonderful way for people to connect we have not had until recently. In the name of profit, their owners are damn sure going to spend money on whatever politician they need to ensure they are not regulated like magazines or newspapers or telephone service.

Except not every news broadcast would have published it. You have experience of that in your area of the country.

140
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 12:00:13pm

re: #127 JordanRules

So like the Wells Fargo guy, the Novartis guy, the AT&T guy…

Pharma bro… .

141
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 12:01:16pm
142
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 12:02:09pm

Does anything think Deray McKesson’s (?sp) arrest in Ferguson would have ended with his release had that video not gone viral via Twitter?

143
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 12:02:13pm

re: #136 Anymouse 🌹

In the name of profit, their owners are damn sure going to spend money on whatever politician they need to ensure they are not regulated like magazines or newspapers or telephone service.

Like every other industry does.
Drug prices are insane right now.
We gotta fix our system.

144
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:02:23pm

re: #136 Anymouse 🌹

Except it wouldn’t be a he-said she-said.

Back in the days of Jim Crow, whites would be complicit in not saying anything.

Now, witnesses would have come forward even without the Internet.

And you don’t need an unregulated Internet for cell phones. One call to a news outlet and the video would have still gotten out.

The horror of the murder of Emmet Till was shown to the world by magazine photographers, not the Internet. The Kent State massacres were shown by photographers and journalists, not the Internet.

Social media is a wonderful way for people to connect we have not had until recently. In the name of profit, their owners are damn sure going to spend money on whatever politician they need to ensure they are not regulated like magazines or newspapers or telephone service.

Did you forget that Emmett Till’s murderers were in fact acquitted? That no one stood trial after Kent State. Yes, we would have found out about what happened but without modern media, it would have been much more difficult to collaborate those gentlemen’s stories.

145
FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀  May 18, 2018 • 12:02:54pm
146
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:03:31pm

re: #142 Belafon

Does anything think Deray McKesson’s (?sp) arrest in Ferguson would have ended with his release had that video not gone viral via Twitter?

Councilman French’s tweets of the protests too. I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees it this way. Maybe it’s naive of me but I really think if we had modern social media in the past, a lot more injustices would have been fixed.

147
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 12:03:40pm

Facebook could afford to police itself, but Mark Zuckerberg thinks he has to be a billionaire instead.

148
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:04:14pm

re: #143 JordanRules

Like every other industry does.
Drug prices are insane right now.
We gotta fix our system.

Exactly.

149
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 18, 2018 • 12:04:18pm

re: #142 Belafon

Does anything think Deray McKesson’s (?sp) arrest in Ferguson would have ended with his release had that video not gone viral via Twitter?

Or that Ferguson would have started the movement it did without the live coverage via Twitter?

150
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 18, 2018 • 12:04:32pm

re: #47 JordanRules

Many marginalized groups would disagree. I’ve posted links a bunch of times with research and anecdotes about this.

People do not only use social media for politics. We just do that here. It’s not even close to the totality of it. Regulate it.

And a lot of people somehow manage to use social media without being “poisoned” by it because we aren’t stupid.

151
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 12:04:40pm

re: #139 Belafon

Except not every news broadcast would have published it. You have experience of that in your area of the country.

There is that. It isn’t perfect.

That said, the Wild West that is Facebook and Twitter could stand some regulations.

Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get them. Conservatives are still too busy focused on their free market faith in getting rid of Net Neutrality, which will make things worse.

I’m awfully tired. I need to get to bed while the sun is out and we’re not getting pounded by thunderstorms. That, and I want to wake up before the rest of the plaster on my ceiling collapses on my bed with this afternoon’s scheduled attempt by Mother Nature to kill my wife and me.

Catch y’all later …

152
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:05:20pm

re: #139 Belafon

Except not every news broadcast would have published it. You have experience of that in your area of the country.

Yep, AM, you have even admitted that your local paper did not even acknowledge the Democrats that sought office in your state. Sorry man but you’re wrong on this one IMO. I respect ya but you’re missing the big picture here.

153
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:06:08pm

re: #151 Anymouse 🌹

There is that. It isn’t perfect.

That said, the Wild West that is Facebook and Twitter could stand some regulations.

Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get them. Conservatives are still too busy focused on their free market faith in getting rid of Net Neutrality, which will make things worse.

I’m awfully tired. I need to get to bed while the sun is out and we’re not getting pounded by thunderstorms. That, and I want to wake up before the rest of the plaster on my ceiling collapses on my bed with this afternoon’s scheduled attempt by Mother Nature to kill my wife and me.

Catch y’all later …

We’re not going to get them? Well you know what. That’s why we elect moderates and liberals to beat those conservatives who refuse to implement them.

154
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 12:06:59pm

re: #147 jaunte

Facebook could afford to police itself, but Mark Zuckerberg thinks he has to be a billionaire instead.

That’s cool but I want the Government regulating it, like in many European countries. It should not be laid upon one rich white dude at the top.

155
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:07:04pm

We wouldn’t know the full extent of the horrors of what ICE has been doing w/o social media.

156
Anymouse 🌹  May 18, 2018 • 12:07:15pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

Did you forget that Emmett Till’s murderers were in fact acquitted? That no one stood trial after Kent State. Yes, we would have found out about what happened but without modern media, it would have been much more difficult to collaborate those gentlemen’s stories.

They were regrettably acquitted. However, the whole country became aware of American apartheid and its cost, which spurred the movement to end it.

No one stood trial after Kent State, but that was the catalyst which forged united opposition to the Vietnam War to end it.

I’m off to bed now … CU L8TR or something like that.

157
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 12:07:21pm

re: #147 jaunte

Facebook could afford to police itself, but Mark Zuckerberg thinks he has to be a billionaire instead.

Agree, though it sounds like something’s changed at least a little bit. They seem to be closing down these fake accounts pretty quick. And the other 385M (!!!) fake accounts being closed was at least somewhat positive.

We’re in a brave new world with respect to this technology, and the people who have tried to ride it for profit have to deal with their choices.

158
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 12:08:01pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

That is true but I just wonder what a realistic solution is. Are we to ban people from sharing content on the internet? I just really worry about a slippery slope with hostility towards the platform itself rather than the people who abuse said platform. I guess maybe it’s like alcohol in this way.

The issue is as old as the Cain and Abel Bible story.

It is humans…not hardware.

Our issue in this country are human not hardware.

We have an empty soul and a ton of division.

This country was founded on civic togetherness. We no longer have that.

We have all kinds of things that pump up your individual rights and very little that teaches community. Look at our politics.

When Evangelicals preach on individuals gaining wealth through prosperity preaching they have lost all contact with their own God’s teachings.

I don’t think the Christian God or any mainstream religion ever said selfishness was a good thing.

159
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 12:08:16pm

re: #126 BlueGrl21

I suspect there’s more than one pathology that creates the same behavior.

There’s psychopaths that directly derive enjoyment from the planning and execution plan because they enjoy the free exercise of power. They’re closer to serial killers in how they think…this is fun for them in a very pure, self-indulgent way. They decide to do it and go until they can’t, at which point death is preferable…but I think it’s a mistake to discount how often mass shooters have follow-up plans (even if those plans are stupid and impractical and little more than porn) because they want to sustain that feeling of power.

There’s people that are driven by narcissistic injury. To some degree they relate to other people, but they’re emotional disregulated and struggle to empathize because of their self-involvement. They’re closed to domestic murderers in how they think…as messy explosion of rage and neediness and incontinence and a need to assert control over someone they feel took away control. At least some of these public shootings are about killing one person—usually an ex—and then continuing because they either want to die or the single murder doesn’t vent the narcissistic rage.

Those aren’t perfectly distinct categories. More like a Venn diagram.

I think we should talk about mass shooters like they were wife killers. The absolute fucking bottom of criminality; pathetic, driven by weakness. No mystery, no mystique. Sad, ugly-inside fuckers who weren’t even sharp enough to be a more interesting kind of monster.

160
jaunte  May 18, 2018 • 12:08:55pm

re: #154 JordanRules

That’s cool but I want the Government regulating it, like in many European countries. It should not be laid upon one rich white dude at the top.

That’s the way it has to happen every time, because the one rich dude can’t be trusted.

161
blueraven  May 18, 2018 • 12:09:04pm

Governor Abbott say he is going to “begin round table discussions” immediately to address school shootings.

Do you think there will be gun safety advocates invited?

*spit*

162
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:09:25pm

re: #156 Anymouse 🌹

They were regrettably acquitted. However, the whole country became aware of American apartheid and its cost, which spurred the movement to end it.

No one stood trial after Kent State, but that was the catalyst which forged united opposition to the Vietnam War to end it.

I’m off to bed now … CU L8TR or something like that.

We’re just going to have to disagree on this one unfortunately. I just think you’re not seeing that had these tools been around then, we would have had a much likely time of convicting Emmett and the four at Kent State’s killers.

163
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  May 18, 2018 • 12:10:01pm

re: #145 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

You have a typo there…

It’s M-O-R-O-N
Not G-U-Y

Prolly wearing the Moron Label somewhere for easy identification.

164
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:10:02pm

re: #158 ObserverArt

The issue is as old as the Cain and Abel Bible story.

It is humans…not hardware.

Our issue in this country are human not hardware.

We have an empty soul and a ton of division.

This country was founded on civic togetherness. We no longer have that.

We have all kinds of things that pump up your individual rights and very little that teaches community. Look at our politics.

When Evangelicals preach on individuals gaining wealth through prosperity preaching they have lost all contact with their own God’s teachings.

I don’t think the Christian God or any mainstream religion ever said selfishness was a good thing.

Nailed it like BG’s grand slammy the other night :).

165
Belafon  May 18, 2018 • 12:10:15pm

Also, I don’t think the internet can solely be blamed for these shootings. There hasn’t been coordination between them. A lot of it has been driven by statements on TV and through NRA pronouncements. And I’m sure a lot of the information these people are getting is not on Facebook, but other pro sites.

166
BlueGrl21  May 18, 2018 • 12:10:22pm

re: #149 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Or that Ferguson would have started the movement it did without the live coverage via Twitter?

Arab Spring

167
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:11:11pm

re: #165 Belafon

Also, I don’t think the internet can solely be blamed for these shootings. There hasn’t been coordination between them. A lot of it has been driven by statements on TV and through NRA pronouncements. And I’m sure a lot of the information these people are getting is not on Facebook, but other pro sites.

I think we’re talking about the aftermath and how the internet has been used to spread fake images of the shooter as an Antifa HRC supporter.

168
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 18, 2018 • 12:11:30pm

The Internet is a genie out of the bottle. Social media is only one manifestation that’s made it somewhat more accessible but now that people have had that taste, that’s it. You’re not going to be able to get rid of it. The question is how do we teach the population to think critically, evaluate sources, and be aware of their own biases.

Do I think the good the Internet has done for the world outweighs the bad? In general, yes. For me personally, absolutely.

What isn’t going to teach the population are countless lectures about how awful social media is. Those just get obnoxious after the fourth or fifth or twentieth or thirtieth time.

169
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:12:28pm

re: #166 BlueGrl21

Arab Spring

I know it sounds selfish but SM has really allowed me to stay more closer to my family than I otherwise would have been. I know there’s letters and phone calls but you know and I know it sounds silly but I cited my anxiety earlier but some of us just aren’t comfortable on the phone. Chatting with people online gives me more comfort than on the phone or face to face. IT’s allowed me to make many friends nost just here but else where.

170
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 12:12:46pm

re: #168 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The Internet is a genie out of the bottle. Social media is only one manifestation that’s made it somewhat more accessible but now that people have had that taste, that’s it. You’re not going to be able to get rid of it. The question is how do we teach the population to think critically, evaluate sources, and be aware of their own biases.

Do I think the good the Internet has done for the world outweighs the bad? In general, yes. For me personally, absolutely.

What isn’t going to teach the population are countless lectures about how awful social media is. Those just get obnoxious after the fourth or fifth or twentieth or thirtieth time.

QFT!!!
The whole thang!

171
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:13:03pm

re: #168 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The Internet is a genie out of the bottle. Social media is only one manifestation that’s made it somewhat more accessible but now that people have had that taste, that’s it. You’re not going to be able to get rid of it. The question is how do we teach the population to think critically, evaluate sources, and be aware of their own biases.

Do I think the good the Internet has done for the world outweighs the bad? In general, yes. For me personally, absolutely.

What isn’t going to teach the population are countless lectures about how awful social media is. Those just get obnoxious after the fourth or fifth or twentieth or thirtieth time.

That’s a bingo. And it’s good to see you this afternoon Klys.

172
JordanRules  May 18, 2018 • 12:13:26pm

re: #166 BlueGrl21

Arab Spring

That’s one of the major examples that I use.

173
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 18, 2018 • 12:14:25pm

re: #171 HappyWarrior

That’s a bingo. And it’s good to see you this afternoon Klys.

I’m only around for a bit - gotta go up to SF to get my bib for Bay to Breakers this afternoon, so I can wake up at 4am on Sunday to drive up and run 15k at 8am.

Why do I do this?

(I dyed the bottom half of my hair pink, but it ended up very subtle. Sadface.)

174
Hecuba's daughter  May 18, 2018 • 12:14:34pm

re: #122 jaunte

If Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey were anywhere near as responsible people as Charles Johnson has shown himself to be, Facebook and Twitter would be reasonably sane media. But their greed is fundamental, and irresponsible.

I love Charles’ site. It provides more information than shows up in my FB feed on any day but that said, monitoring a site is not really scalable. One person can read through everything here on a daily basis. Facebook has one billion users with far more complex style postings than the text, occasional pictures, and links here.

175
klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 18, 2018 • 12:15:31pm

re: #174 Hecuba’s daughter

I love Charles’ site. It provides more information than shows up in my FB feed on any day but that said, monitoring a site is not really scalable. One person can read through everything here on a daily basis. Facebook has one billion users with far more complex style postings than the text, occasional pictures, and links here.

Very true.

Zuckerberg is still a kind of scummy human being who doesn’t have any interest in doing the responsible thing though. One of those “both things are true” cases.

176
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 12:18:29pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

Did you forget that Emmett Till’s murderers were in fact acquitted? That no one stood trial after Kent State. Yes, we would have found out about what happened but without modern media, it would have been much more difficult to collaborate those gentlemen’s stories.

Not totally correct, some of the Ohio National Guard did stand trial.

They were acquitted. A link for you…

New York Times - Judge Acquits Guardsmen In Slayings at Kent State

177
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 12:19:13pm

re: #168 klys (maker of Silmarils)

The internet speeds up and makes visible processes that used to be more local and clandestine and that are still operating.

I very much live in Cervantes’ little village that contains great malice (paraphrase). The exact same Gish Gallop/pettifogging/special pleading occurs any time there’s a get together.

eta: as much a social media’s participation in propaganda horrifies me, it’s instructive to look at how it just elaborates what happening with much lower tech. Before Twitter there was FNC, before FNC there was AM radio; before AM radio there were newsletters and a lively trade in VHS and cassettes covering much the same paranoid style. Indeed, the current internet crop are defined by their consumption of a fisheye-lensed world created by Rush Limbaugh and the Ron Paul Report.

People need better critical thinking skills in general. Social-media driven propaganda works for the same reason blood libel before e pogrom does, just faster.

And there’s not really a fix on any level other than the individual. Tech bros ultimately view information as a product, and clearly haven’t thought about how giving people more of what they want rapidly descends into actively-curated disinformation and the inch-by-inch normalization of ideas that were pushed out of the conversation for a damn good reason.

178
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:19:21pm

Lre: #173 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m only around for a bit - gotta go up to SF to get my bib for Bay to Breakers this afternoon, so I can wake up at 4am on Sunday to drive up and run 15k at 8am.

Why do I do this?

(I dyed the bottom half of my hair pink, but it ended up very subtle. Sadface.)

Good luck in the 8K.

179
HappyWarrior  May 18, 2018 • 12:19:46pm

re: #176 ObserverArt

Not totally correct, some of the Ohio National Guard did stand trial.

They were acquitted. A link for you…

New York Times - Judge Acquits Guardsmen In Slayings at Kent State

Oh, thanks.

180
BlueGrl21  May 18, 2018 • 12:22:01pm

re: #159 The Ghost of a Flea

I suspect there’s more than one pathology that creates the same behavior.

There’s psychopaths that directly derive enjoyment from the planning and execution plan because they enjoy the free exercise of power. They’re closer to serial killers in how they think…this is fun for them in a very pure, self-indulgent way. They decide to do it and go until they can’t, at which point death is preferable…but I think it’s a mistake to discount how often mass shooters have follow-up plans (even if those plans are stupid and impractical and little more than porn) because they want to sustain that feeling of power.

There’s people that are driven by narcissistic injury. To some degree they relate to other people, but they’re emotional disregulated and struggle to empathize because of their self-involvement. They’re closed to domestic murderers in how they think…as messy explosion of rage and neediness and incontinence and a need to assert control over someone they feel took away control. At least some of these public shootings are about killing one person—usually an ex—and then continuing because they either want to die or the single murder doesn’t vent the narcissistic rage.

Those aren’t perfectly distinct categories. More like a Venn diagram.

I think we should talk about mass shooters like they were wife killers. The absolute fucking bottom of criminality; pathetic, driven by weakness. No mystery, no mystique. Sad, ugly-inside fuckers who weren’t even sharp enough to be a more interesting kind of monster.

As I was writing it I thought about saying, “antisocial personality disorders,” but those run such a wide spectrum that the words are meaningless. I like how you differentiated between “pure” psychopathology and narcissistic injury.

Whatever we call it, it’s personality disorders and deeply, deeply broken, shattered empathy. If any ever existed. We cannot hold these guys up as brilliant evil villains. They’re pathetic.

181
makeitstop  May 18, 2018 • 12:22:46pm

re: #139 Belafon

Except not every news broadcast would have published it. You have experience of that in your area of the country.

Right. Wasn’t it AM who said their local media didn’t even cover the Dem primaries this week?

No media is infallible, none is beyond bias. See Sinclair Media, Fox News.

If it weren’t for the internet, that would be the primary source of news. Not A Murrow or a Cronkite to be found.

182
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 12:25:05pm

re: #161 blueraven

Governor Abbott say he is going to “begin round table discussions” immediately to address school shootings.

Do you think there will be gun safety advocates invited?

*spit*

All the Texans politicians are full of shit and guns.

Now idiot Dan Patrick is on basically saying he wants to make schools one-entrance prisons. He wants hardened schools.

What was the differences that Abbott, Cruz and Patrick never had to worry about all the openness of the schools they want to?

Guns…and the proliferation, celebration and casualness we accept them.

Fuck these people. Texas needs to kick these fucker out NOW!

183
ObserverArt  May 18, 2018 • 12:27:37pm

re: #173 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I’m only around for a bit - gotta go up to SF to get my bib for Bay to Breakers this afternoon, so I can wake up at 4am on Sunday to drive up and run 15k at 8am.

Why do I do this?

(I dyed the bottom half of my hair pink, but it ended up very subtle. Sadface.)

Uh oh! Sounds like an addiction!

: )

184
Backwoods_Sleuth  May 18, 2018 • 12:27:42pm

re: #181 makeitstop

Right. Wasn’t it AM who said their local media didn’t even cover the Dem primaries this week?

No media is infallible, none is beyond bias. See Sinclair Media, Fox News.

If it weren’t for the internet, that would be the primary source of news. Not A Murrow or a Cronkite to be found.

^^THIS^^

It’s MHO that more people that prefer to live in a state of frightened delusion/denial get their news from Fox and Sinclair than they do from social media.

185
The Ghost of a Flea  May 18, 2018 • 12:30:19pm

re: #180 BlueGrl21

It’s all people that tick to some degree on the sociopathic scale, and thus view people as means rather than ends.

186
gwangung  May 18, 2018 • 12:46:18pm

re: #149 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Or that Ferguson would have started the movement it did without the live coverage via Twitter?

Social media is part and parcel of any power marginalized people have, particularly if you are of color.

I think non-POC should investigate this a bit more closely….nothing stopping you, you know….

187
gocart mozart  May 18, 2018 • 12:50:08pm
188
prairiefire  May 18, 2018 • 8:32:48pm

What a crazy Friday!

189
prairiefire  May 18, 2018 • 8:35:03pm

re: #183 ObserverArt

Uh oh! Sounds like an addiction!

: )

A healthy one!


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